From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 1 09:55:40 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:55:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure Message-ID: In a message dated 8/31/2007 6:34:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: like Simic's poetry and wish him well, but I think he's more of a "poets' poet" than Hall or Kooser. Chances of his being able to connect with a general readership seem pretty slim. Not, to paraphrase Seinfeld, that there's anything right about that. It's hard to say how the various initiatives of the more activist laureates have faired. Have they brought in more audience? Made poetry more visible to the public? Not a whole lot of corroborating evidence to look to. I applaud their efforts nonetheless. In recent years we've had less visible laureates too: Gluck was adamant about doing nothing except her own writing and said as much. Kunitz because of his advanced age wasn't going to be able to muster much of a public showing. Hall was only in for one year...and I don't know that he got any pet projects going in that time (Pinsky did the Favorite Poem Project; Collins had his Poetry 101, Kooser got the American Life in Poetry going with newspaper syndication) . Maybe that's what gets one more than a single year's appointment: It's about what you do with/in the post. The fact that Simic is foreign born is a nice nod to what our country should stand for. From what I can tell in the few times I've been around him, Simic has a good sense of humor, and that will serve him well...particularly in the various readings he'll do as result of the post. I think he has a similar charisma to what Collins and Pinsky have. And despite the quirkiness and wry nature of Simic's poetry, I think it's not beyond the understanding of most readers; it's not so abstruse or obscure or disjunctive that the chimerical 'common reader' might be put off by. And it might open a few eyes to an important aspect of poetry: Approaching the subject from a unique or unexpected angle. I agree with what Bob said, or I think he was saying, that: Saying you will promote no particular kind of poetry or have no particular perspective you want to advance, is advancing a particular point of view. Perhaps we can say that Simic's tenure will be one of 'laissezfaire eclecticism'. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 1 12:55:44 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:55:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net> > I agree with what Bob said, or I think he was saying, that: Saying you > will promote no particular kind of poetry or have no particular > perspective you want to advance, is advancing a particular point of view. That's half what I was saying (in my two posts, of which you may be referring only to the earlier one, James). > > Perhaps we can say that Simic's tenure will be one of 'laissezfaire > eclecticism'. > > Finnegan > > The bigger half of what I was saying is that Simic's tenure may be one that he considers "laissezfaire eclecticism," but it won't come close to making people aware of any poetry not from Wilshberia--i.e., won't be close to genuine laissezfaire eclecticism." --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 15:15:47 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 12:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kolkata Message-ID: <205770.97974.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, and if you are interested in notes, then please back channel. I interviewed friends of Ginsberg, which was brilliant for this young lad. And am in process of setting up, with help from many, writers' collective in Dharamsala - home of TIbetan refugee camps and HH. There is lots to tell, but more - am living in China. Thanks for all the brutal and honest remarks. I do my best, but sometimes fail - indeed. Best as ever - and lots of love, AlexJ. -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Sep 2 00:00:27 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 20:00:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net> References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gmail.com> On 9/1/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > The bigger half of what I was saying is that Simic's tenure may be one that > he considers "laissezfaire eclecticism," but it won't come close to making > people aware of any poetry not from Wilshberia--i.e., won't be close to > genuine laissezfaire eclecticism." On the other hand, since Simic at least leans a little towards the end of a spectrum you seem to be on, shouldn't you be thankful that it was Simic and not another Kooser? I ask that despite being surprised that anyone thinks Simic would be particularly difficult for the general poetry reading public to get into. Assuming there is a general population that can be called that, I don't think Simic will be much of a problem. Of course the bigger issue with the whole idea of being "eclectic" is that it's subjective and-- as I think you demonstrate-- an idea easily lost in the no true Scotsman fallacy. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 2 07:06:01 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 06:06:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gmail.com> References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On 9/1/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> The bigger half of what I was saying is that Simic's tenure may be one that >> he considers "laissezfaire eclecticism," but it won't come close to making >> people aware of any poetry not from Wilshberia--i.e., won't be close to >> genuine laissezfaire eclecticism." >> > > On the other hand, since Simic at least leans a little towards the end > of a spectrum you seem to be on, shouldn't you be thankful that it was > Simic and not another Kooser? I ask that despite being surprised that > anyone thinks Simic would be particularly difficult for the general > poetry reading public to get into. Assuming there is a general > population that can be called that, I don't think Simic will be much > of a problem. > > Of course the bigger issue with the whole idea of being "eclectic" is > that it's subjective and-- as I think you demonstrate-- an idea easily > lost in the no true Scotsman fallacy. > > c I would define "eclectic" in this case very simply: "showing interest in (and promoting) all of the following kinds of poetry." Then I would list all the kinds, making use of my list of schools of poetry that no one seems to consider of any value but I. I would include formal poetry, standard freeverse of the kind I call Iowa plaintext lyric poetry and other kinds, standard jump-cut like Ashbery's and others', New York school, contragenteel (or neoBukowski) poetry. All these Simic may well show interest in and promote. I tend to think that wouldn't be better than pushing only one of them because it makes it seem that these poetries represent some kind of complete range of contemporary poetry instead of representing only the complete range of poetry practiced by academics. For my list would also include visual poetry, sound poetry, mathematical poetry, cyber poetry, various forms of language poetry, and no doubt one or two other kinds of poetry I've overlooked. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 2 13:36:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:36:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] New comment on Antonio Porchia. Message-ID: <00d701c7ed87$cfa2f680$08ae3252@ANNY> I am just back and notice that I received this comment, I am therefore sending it to James Finnegan who first introduced me to Antonio Porchia. Thank you, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobbi To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] New comment on Antonio Porchia. Bobbi has left a new comment on your post "Antonio Porchia": I send you my gratitude for introducing me to Antonio Porchia. Such wisdom, clarity, simplicity, honesty, beauty is precious and rare. Thank you!--Bobbi Lurie Posted by Bobbi to NarcissusWorks at 10:05 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 03:00:21 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:00:21 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: <46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net> References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gmail.com> <46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0709030000r53da506cu64d0bd3e3e529221@mail.gmail.com> On 9/2/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I would define "eclectic" in this case very simply: "showing interest in > (and promoting) all of the following kinds of poetry." Then I would list > all the kinds, making use of my list of schools of poetry that no one seems > to consider of any value but I. Do you expect any mere mortal to manage that? I get that this is an ideal of being eclectic, but that's my point-- no one can promote it *all* and since they can't they will always be subject to accusations of not being truly eclectic and diverse. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 3 07:35:02 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 06:35:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0709030000r53da506cu64d0bd3e3e529221@mail.gmail.com> References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gmail.com><46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0709030000r53da506cu64d0bd3e3e529221@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46DBF166.5010305@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > On 9/2/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I would define "eclectic" in this case very simply: "showing interest in >> (and promoting) all of the following kinds of poetry." Then I would list >> all the kinds, making use of my list of schools of poetry that no one seems >> to consider of any value but I. >> > > Do you expect any mere mortal to manage that? I get that this is an > ideal of being eclectic, but that's my point-- no one can promote it > *all* and since they can't they will always be subject to accusations > of not being truly eclectic and diverse. > > c > Well, I've done it myself. But I don't mean all varieties of poetry, just the ones on my list (and maybe a few I missed)--I mean, basically, a reasonably complete range of contemporary poetry. And I probably shouldn't have used the word, "promote," for I meant more like "acknowledge the existence of and give occasional examples of." I would want Mr. Eclectic to take all criticism for ignoring some kind of poetry seriously but not expect him to accept all kinds of material someone claims to be poetry worthy of acknowledgement (though he could at least state that so-and-so brought pharmaceutical sandpaper poetry to his attention). Within reason--as ignoring most forms of language poetry, and all varieites of visual and sound poetry, is not. I would prefer he mention poetry already mentioned all over the poetry world as little as possible, too, since it doesn't need his help, but I certainly wouldn't make that mandatory. I would, on the other hand, want him to comment a lot on his favorite kind of poetry on the grounds that he probably knows a lot about it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Sep 3 07:39:18 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:39:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: <46DBF166.5010305@nut-n-but.net> References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gmail.com><46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0709030000r53da506cu64d0bd3e3e529221@mail.gmail.com> <46DBF166.5010305@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Chris said "mere mortal," Bob. You don't count. Hal "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 3, 2007, at 7:35 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Chris Lott wrote: >> On 9/2/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> I would define "eclectic" in this case very simply: "showing >>> interest in >>> (and promoting) all of the following kinds of poetry." Then I >>> would list >>> all the kinds, making use of my list of schools of poetry that no >>> one seems >>> to consider of any value but I. >>> >> Do you expect any mere mortal to manage that? I get that this is an >> ideal of being eclectic, but that's my point-- no one can promote it >> *all* and since they can't they will always be subject to accusations >> of not being truly eclectic and diverse. >> >> c >> > > Well, I've done it myself. But I don't mean all varieties of > poetry, just the ones on my list (and maybe a few I missed)--I > mean, basically, a reasonably complete range of contemporary > poetry. And I probably shouldn't have used the word, "promote," > for I meant more like "acknowledge the existence of and give > occasional examples of." I would want Mr. Eclectic to take all > criticism for ignoring some kind of poetry seriously but not expect > him to accept all kinds of material someone claims to be poetry > worthy of acknowledgement (though he could at least state that so- > and-so brought pharmaceutical sandpaper poetry to his attention). > Within reason--as ignoring most forms of language poetry, and all > varieites of visual and sound poetry, is not. > > I would prefer he mention poetry already mentioned all over the > poetry world as little as possible, too, since it doesn't need his > help, but I certainly wouldn't make that mandatory. I would, on > the other hand, want him to comment a lot on his favorite kind of > poetry on the grounds that he probably knows a lot about it. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Sep 3 12:28:07 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:28:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gma il.com><46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0709030000r53da506cu64d0bd3e3e529221@mail.gmail.com><46DBF166.5010305@nut-n-but .net> Message-ID: <46DC3617.1020207@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Chris said "mere mortal," Bob. You don't > count. > > Hal > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > obscures vision." > --Charlie Chan Dang, Hal, is it that obvious? "Intelligent theory, like lens in eyeglasses, make eye more than camera." Mycroft Chan, Charlie's older brother -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Sep 3 11:31:28 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 10:31:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's laurelled tenure In-Reply-To: <46DC3617.1020207@nut-n-but.net> References: <46D99990.3000401@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0709012100j3500355ar3bb6656873b89e80@mail.gma il.com><46DA9919.3090303@nut-n-but.net><9b1b9dab0709030000r53da506cu64d0bd3e3e529221@mail.gmail.com><46DBF166.5010305@nut-n-but .net> <46DC3617.1020207@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Barber College Haircut In my head thrown back as in a nose bleed, There are, of course, A dozen or so replicas of myself, Much reduced, wearing hoods perhaps. They sit at the same table With a conspiratorial air debating The baffling question of my identity, The unresolved pros and cons Shuffled back and forth like a deck Of smutty postcards. Embracing couples In haystacks, on hotel beds, Moonlit beaches at night, saloons-- The grim reaper buying me a drink-- What the hell is going on here, I said? At which the barber rushed over And threw a hot towel over my eyes. --Charles Simic ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Sep 3 12:10:11 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:10:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] listening for that right sound Message-ID: I enjoyed the Rick Rubin profile piece in The New York Times Magazine this weekend. In several places it seemed this legendary producer could have been speaking as a good critic of poetry. Finnegan _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html) "Everything I do," Rubin told me earlier, "whether it's producing, or signing an artist, always starts with the songs. When I'm listening, I'm looking for a balance that you could see in anything. Whether it's a great painting or a building or a sunset. There's just a natural human element to a great song that feels immediately satisfying." -- Rubin explained. "I try to get the artist to feel like they are writing songs for the ages rather than songs for an album. As they write, they come over and play the songs for me. For some reason, most people will write 10 songs and think, That's enough for a record, I'm done. When they play the songs for me, invariably the last two songs they've written are the best. I'll then say, 'You have two songs, go back and write eight more.' " -- In the early Metallica sessions, Rubin has been exacting about different drum sounds. "Lars" ? Ulrich, the drummer ? "will play two things for me, and I'll say, 'This one is great and that one is terrible,' " Rubin recalled. "Lars will say: 'How do you know? They both sound good to me.' Well, I just know. The right sound reaches its hand out and finds its way. So much of what I do is just being present and listening for that right sound." Rick Rubin quoted in NY Times Magazine article, 9-2-2007. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Sep 3 12:39:59 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:39:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?F=E9lix_F=E9n=E9on=2C_Novels_in_3_Li?= =?iso-8859-1?q?nes?= Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/books/review/Johnson-t.html_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/books/review/Johnson-t.html) Another interesting piece from this weekend's NYT's. Makes even my word-stingy self want to write 'novels'. Might be a useful exercize for young writers: Reduce a newspaper account to a pithy & elegant 2-3 lines. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Sep 3 12:45:50 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:45:50 EDT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[New-Poetry]=20F=E9lix=20F=E9n=E9on,=20Nove?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ls=20in=203=20Lines?= Message-ID: In a message dated 9/3/2007 12:40:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: Might be a useful exercize for young writers: Of course spellin will always be a challenge to some of us. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Sep 3 19:08:44 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:08:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Job posting: Director of Professional Writing Program, Message-ID: Director of Professional Writing Program, University of Southern California. The USC College of Letters, Arts and Sciences seeks an outstanding full-time director of the Master of Professional Writing (MPW) Program beginning January 2008. The MPW Program is a dynamic multidisciplinary graduate writing program that offers writers the opportunity to sharpen their writing in an integrated curriculum of fiction, nonfiction, playwriting, screenplay, and poetry. Among its many graduates successful in publishing, film, stage, and business careers are prize-winning and best-selling authors and Academy Award nominees. The program reflects the energy of Los Angeles, a 24/7 hive of creative activity, with multi-ethnic, cultural, artistic, and intellectual energies. Duties include curriculum development and oversight, student and faculty recruitment, external relations, and teaching. For a complete description of this position, visit _http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/mpw/faculty/directorsearch_ (http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/mpw/faculty/directorsearch) An MFA or equivalent relevant graduate degree is required. Published writer in multiple genres and experienced administrator with collaborative style desired. To apply, please submit electronically a cover letter, CV, and contact information for 3 individuals who can serve as references to: mpwdirectorsearch at college.usc.edu _[log in to unmask]_ (http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A2=ind0709&L=poetics&O=A&P=1801) Copies of published work and letters of reference will be requested later. Consideration of applications will begin October 15, 2007. Web site: _http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/mpw_ (http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/mpw) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Sep 3 19:39:51 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 19:39:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: umbrella Message-ID: _http://www.umbrellajournal.com/_ (http://www.umbrellajournal.com/) Umbrella's Fall all-poetry edition is now online, featuring the special "work poem" section and a wonderful mix of voices familiar and new: The editorial note contains an introduction to the work poems, another celebratory "issue cento" and news about Best of the Net nominations. The winter issue, online December 1, will mark Umbrella's first anniversary. Poems on general topics are welcome, and also poems for a planned special section on cold poems, i.e. poems which makes use of winter ideas and/or wintery imagery. Snow, sleet, ice, icicles, glaciers, Norway, whatever calls forth the inner and outer experience of a winter state. For this and all Umbrella extras, poems that have been published in books are welcome. If all goes well, more surprises will be in store for the anniversary edition. We're reading for the prose section as well. Bumbershoot, our zine for light verse and kiddie verse, lives on but as an annual. The next planned issue of the 'shoot will be Summer 2008 and we will begin reading for it next year. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 4 13:13:12 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:13:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Message-ID: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> I know, Bob, not all the bases are being covered, but they're trying to cast a wide net... http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 Poets Forum: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Saturday, October 20 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. 4 sessions & a reception Be there as some of the most important poets of our time explore questions central to poetry today. Intimate panels will discuss such issues as originality in poetry, poetic lineage, clarity and obscurity in poetry, and unlikely influences that have shaped poets? work. Audience Q & A to follow. Frank Bidart Rita Dove Robert Hass Lyn Hejinian Galway Kinnell Nathaniel Mackey Sharon Olds ?Carl Phillips Robert Pinsky Kay Ryan Gerald Stern Susan Stewart James Tate Ellen Bryant Voigt? Theresa Lang Theatre Marymount Manhattan College 221 East 71st Street ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Sep 4 13:48:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 19:48:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today References: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01c7ef1b$c4510cf0$52eb3652@ANNY> If I could I would be there. From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 7:13 PM I know, Bob, not all the bases are being covered, but they're trying to cast a wide net... http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 Poets Forum: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Saturday, October 20 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. 4 sessions & a reception Be there as some of the most important poets of our time explore questions central to poetry today. Intimate panels will discuss such issues as originality in poetry, poetic lineage, clarity and obscurity in poetry, and unlikely influences that have shaped poets? work. Audience Q & A to follow. Frank Bidart Rita Dove Robert Hass Lyn Hejinian Galway Kinnell Nathaniel Mackey Sharon Olds Carl Phillips Robert Pinsky Kay Ryan Gerald Stern Susan Stewart James Tate Ellen Bryant Voigt Theresa Lang Theatre Marymount Manhattan College 221 East 71st Street -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Sep 4 14:34:02 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:34:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Joel Weishaus Message-ID: <004201c7ef22$2ad46e80$52eb3652@ANNY> As September is almost upon us, I'm putting out the sometimes word on the list of links I keep for Portland State University's English Department. This is a list mainly of on-line literary journals with legs, and personal sites and blogs of digital literary artists, along with some research sites. As it's on a public university's server, no sites that have anything for sale are allowed. If you want to be added to this list, which I'm happy to hear is quite popular around the Net, please let me know: weishaus at pdx.edu The page is at: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/cew/cew.htm Thanks, Joel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Sep 4 15:10:45 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:10:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8658C54C-E03A-4F3E-9C2E-59E639BF4E0F@earthlink.net> Anaesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 4 16:25:50 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:25:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8658C54C-E03A-4F3E-9C2E-59E639BF4E0F@earthlink.net> References: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> <8658C54C-E03A-4F3E-9C2E-59E639BF4E0F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9BD48EB34154D-F8C-5@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> So that would mean School of Quietude and Languish Poetry would be represented? Anaesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today? -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 3:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Anaesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Sep 4 18:02:40 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:02:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46DDD600.5060001@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I know, Bob, not all the bases are being covered, but they're trying > to cast a wide net... > No, they're not, Jim. They're re-running the quadruply-certified and throwing in Hejinian, who's barely doubly-certified, because Language poetry became acadominant twenty years ago (and Hejinian is female). --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Sep 4 17:05:28 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:05:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today References: <8C9BD2E0220FF32-1650-9A14@webmail-db03.sysops.aol.com><8658C54C-E03A-4F3E-9C2E-59E639BF4E0F@earthlink.net> <8C9BD48EB34154D-F8C-5@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <007701c7ef37$528de860$52eb3652@ANNY> Silent sleep of fleeting Quieti & Longish languish ghoulish Pottery From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 10:25 PM So that would mean School of Quietude and Languish Poetry would be represented? Anaesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 3:10 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Anaesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Sep 4 17:11:15 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:11:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bumber Sticker du Jour In-Reply-To: <46DDD600.5060001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000a01c7ef38$26e7c900$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> A triptych sticka for my old heap: No Insurance. No Shit. Wow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Sep 4 17:53:09 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:53:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Message-ID: I think I missed the original post on this. Could someone send it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Sep 4 18:18:10 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:18:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Message-ID: In a message dated 9/4/2007 5:53:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: I think I missed the original post on this. Could someone send it? You snooze, you lose...it must be that 'anaesthetic dispersity' that Hal started. Original post was just this announcement: http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 Poets Forum: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Saturday, October 20 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. 4 sessions & a reception Be there as some of the most important poets of our time explore questions central to poetry today. Intimate panels will discuss such issues as originality in poetry, poetic lineage, clarity and obscurity in poetry, and unlikely influences that have shaped poets? work. Audience Q & A to follow. Frank Bidart Rita Dove Robert Hass Lyn Hejinian Galway Kinnell Nathaniel Mackey Sharon Olds Carl Phillips Robert Pinsky Kay Ryan Gerald Stern Susan Stewart James Tate Ellen Bryant Voigt Theresa Lang Theatre Marymount Manhattan College 221 East 71st Street ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Sep 4 18:25:10 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:25:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Message-ID: In a message dated 9/4/2007 5:18:29 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > > Original post was just this announcement: > > > http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 Poets Forum: Aesthetic Diversity in > Poetry Today > Saturday, October 20 > 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. > 4 sessions &a reception > > Be there as some of the most important poets of our time explore questions > central to poetry today. Intimate panels will discuss such issues as > originality in poetry, poetic lineage, clarity and obscurity in poetry, and unlikely > influences that have shaped poets? work. Audience Q &A to follow. > > Frank Bidart > Rita Dove > Robert Hass > Lyn Hejinian > Galway Kinnell > Nathaniel Mackey > Sharon Olds > Carl Phillips > Robert Pinsky > Kay Ryan > Gerald Stern > Susan Stewart > James Tate > Ellen Bryant Voigt > > Oh. Zzzzzzzzzzz. Tate and Ryan might provide some diversion, though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 11:52:32 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:52:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Second call for poetry submissions to Big Bridge 13 (Jan. '08) Message-ID: Friends and neighbors-- For a second (check out the first at http://www.bigbridge.org/ deathindex.htm ) mini-anthology of poems, this time inspired by/responding to/related to Czeslaw Milosz's poem "Dedication" and/or the various wars/ insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please send 1-6 poems to me at halvard at earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge" followed by your own name clearly in the subject line. Please, when sending attachments, send all poems in a single attachment. This mini-anthology will appear in the January issue of Big Bridge, and I'll consider submissions of work received before the end of November. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html Dedication You whom I could not save Listen to me. Try to understand this simple speech as I would be ashamed of another. I swear, there is in me no wizardry of words. I speak to you with silence like a cloud or a tree. What strengthened me, for you was lethal. You mixed up farewell to an epoch with the beginning of a new one, Inspiration of hatred with lyrical beauty, Blind force with accomplished shape. Here is the valley of shallow Polish rivers. And an immense bridge Going into white fog. Here is a broken city, And the wind throws the screams of gulls on your grave When I am talking with you. What is poetry which does not save Nations or people? A connivance with official lies, A song of drunkards whose throats will be cut in a moment, Readings for sophomore girls. That I wanted good poetry without knowing it, That I discovered, late, its salutary aim, In this and only this I find salvation. They used to pour millet on graves or poppy seeds To feed the dead who would come disguised as birds. I put this book here for you, who once lived So that you should visit us no more. --Czeslaw Milosz, Warsaw, 1945 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 5 12:18:42 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:18:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9BDEF8F603FEB-B58-4B00@mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com> In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that?New Formalism?seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really think of her as strongly formal. Though I know she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. ? No old formalists for that matter either. Wilbur?is one of the last standing...perhaps he was invited but declined. ? David Graham's 'ultratalkers' are MIA as well. And the Post-Avants, who are so active in the blogosphere, are likewise not present and accounted for. Unless they're going to patched into the discussion via WebX. ? Nada performance or slam poets. ? Not even a nod to Hispanic influences. ? It's not possible that every nook & cranny of contemporary poetics be represented. but I think the 'snooze factor' does have?a lot to do with fact the forum is packed with eminences from the mainstream?free verse?establishment and 2 established avantgardists (Hejinian and Mackey). Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, Sep 4 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In a message dated 9/4/2007 5:18:29 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: Original post was just this announcement: http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 Poets Forum: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Saturday, October 20 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. 4 sessions &a reception Be there as some of the most important poets of our time explore questions central to poetry today. Intimate panels will discuss such issues as originality in poetry, poetic lineage, clarity and obscurity in poetry, and unlikely influences that have shaped poets? work. Audience Q &A to follow. Frank Bidart Rita Dove Robert Hass Lyn Hejinian Galway Kinnell Nathaniel Mackey Sharon Olds Carl Phillips Robert Pinsky Kay Ryan Gerald Stern Susan Stewart James Tate Ellen Bryant Voigt? Oh. Zzzzzzzzzzz.? Tate and Ryan might provide some diversion, though. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 12:28:40 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:28:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8C9BDEF8F603FEB-B58-4B00@mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9BDEF8F603FEB-B58-4B00@mblk-r36.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8B0918F7-8DF9-47A7-94BC-603AEA6CE98D@earthlink.net> "Established avantgardists"--now there's an oxymoron to reckon with. Hal "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg." --Samuel Butler Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 5, 2007, at 12:18 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism > seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' > already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really > think of her as strongly formal. Though I know > she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. > > No old formalists for that matter either. Wilbur is one of the last > standing...perhaps he was invited but declined. > > David Graham's 'ultratalkers' are MIA as well. And the Post-Avants, > who are so active in the blogosphere, are likewise > not present and accounted for. Unless they're going to patched into > the discussion via WebX. > > Nada performance or slam poets. > > Not even a nod to Hispanic influences. > > It's not possible that every nook & cranny of contemporary poetics > be represented. but I think the 'snooze factor' does have a lot to > do with fact the forum is packed with eminences from the mainstream > free verse establishment and 2 established avantgardists (Hejinian > and Mackey). > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, Sep 4 6:26 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > In a message dated 9/4/2007 5:18:29 PM Central Daylight Time, > JforJames at aol.com writes: >> >> Original post was just this announcement: >> >> >> http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/380 Poets Forum: Aesthetic >> Diversity in Poetry Today >> Saturday, October 20 >> 10 a.m. - 5 p.m. >> 4 sessions &a reception >> >> Be there as some of the most important poets of our time explore >> questions central to poetry today. Intimate panels will discuss >> such issues as originality in poetry, poetic lineage, clarity and >> obscurity in poetry, and unlikely influences that have shaped >> poets? work. Audience Q &A to follow. >> >> Frank Bidart >> Rita Dove >> Robert Hass >> Lyn Hejinian >> Galway Kinnell >> Nathaniel Mackey >> Sharon Olds >> Carl Phillips >> Robert Pinsky >> Kay Ryan >> Gerald Stern >> Susan Stewart >> James Tate >> Ellen Bryant Voigt >> > > Oh. Zzzzzzzzzzz. Tate and Ryan might provide some diversion, though. > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry > mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/ > mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Sep 5 12:56:26 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:56:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Message-ID: In a message dated 9/5/2007 11:19:30 AM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism seems to > be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' already? Unless > one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really think of her as strongly > formal. Though I know > she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. > We are still here, and we won't go away. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 14:33:21 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 14:33:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8C9BE012AC38384-F38-7AA1@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8B0918F7-8DF9-47A7-94BC-603AEA6CE98D@earthlink.net> <8C9BE012AC38384-F38-7AA1@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4FB6FF6F-0E80-4442-BD58-D2612997C26F@earthlink.net> Oh, I know, James. It's even a NICE oxymoron, but what a cross for those folks to bear. Hal Jay Billington Bulworth for President Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 5, 2007, at 2:24 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > This age of instant and widespread commumication has shortened the > time > in which avant-garde practices are recognized and subsumed by the > academy. > It happens in one's lifetime more commonly nowadays. Also, the > universities > and endowed arts organizations, which are the traditional arbiters > of taste, have become > more porous and open in their attitudes. They've had to, to stay > relevant. > Thus, as the ivy walls have become a more permeable membrane, the new > and strange with increasing ease and speed gets absorbed into those > institutions > which are the establishment. > Hence Silliman, Berstein, Hejinian, Perlman, Watten, Andrews, et > al, are famous poets, > established and renowned, and still 'avant garde' relative to a > larger body of > practicing poets. Hence 'established avantgardist'. But there is > probably > a better term for such things. Bob's got one, I'm sure. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Sent: Wed, Sep 5 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > "Established avantgardists"--now there's an oxymoron to > reckon with. > > Hal > > - > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 5 14:53:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:53:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Borderlands: themes in teaching literatures of theAmericas , University of Birmingham, October 18, 2007. Message-ID: <00a001c7efee$005e3f60$20a93452@ANNY> > From: Richard J Ellis [mailto:r.j.ellis at bham.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 5:14 PM Borderlands: themes in teaching literatures of the Americas, 18 Oct 2007 Borderlands: themes in teaching literatures of the Americas Department of American and CanadianStudies, University of Birmingham 18 October 2007 No charge This event is organised by the Subject Centre for Languages, Linguistics and Area Studies and the English Subject Centre. Register online at http://www.llas.ac.uk/events/llaseventitem.aspx?resourceid=2760 10.30-11.00 Registration 11.00-11.15 Housekeeping and conference introduction 11.15-12.00 Title TBC Marcus Wood, University of Sussex 12.00-12.30 Borderlands Within: la Louisiane fran?aise, Black and White-A Modest Proposal Robert Lewis, University of Birmingham 12.30-13.30 Lunch 13.30-14.15 Bursting Borders: Latinity and the Idea of Am?rica in Literature and Culture Philip Swanson, University of Sheffield 14.15-14.45 What's the Point of Chicano Studies? Thea Pitman, University of Leeds 14.45-15.00 Tea Break 15.00-15.30 From Here To Eternity: (neo)Baroque, Modernity, Postmodernity and Tres tristes tigres as pedagogical puzzle. Luis Perez Princeton University 15.30-16.00 Sara Wood, University of Birmingham Introducing students to research in Transatlantic/borderlands topics through a research module. 16.00-16.30 Plenary: R J Ellis, University of Birmingham The Area Studies Network list is run by the Subject Centre for Languages, Linguistics and Area Studies, www.llas.ac.uk. LLAS is now a Subject Centre of the Higher Education Academy, www.heacademy.ac.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 5 14:53:55 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:53:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9BE053E551D2C-F38-7C91@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> But has the buzz died?down to?a dull hum?now that New Formalism is over?20 years old? And are there?novitiates in great numbers??? ? The other effect I observe is the doppler?of?"What's dat?" Things are over, have come & gone, before one is even half-aware of them. One picks up the dying sound of their doppler as they are passing into history. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Sep 5 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In a message dated 9/5/2007 11:19:30 AM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really think of her as strongly formal. Though I know she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. We are still here, and we won't go away. Sam _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Sep 5 15:12:43 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 14:12:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8C9BE053E551D2C-F38-7C91@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Christian Bok famously says, "Newness is value" as though its also a central condition. He says this has been true since the early 20th century modernists. I wonder. I believe it has value, but not only is newness not sufficient, it's not necessary to value, at least not in the way Bok and the the movements in contemporary culture seem to maintain. I'm not an "old wine in new bottles" sort ("We write the same poem over and over"), but there are essentials that we can deeply respond to regardless of the guise or the fashion of the moment. (The fashion of the moment, by they way, is called by other moments a "period style.") Skip "Grace / to be born and live as variously as possible." --Frank O'Hara -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:54 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today But has the buzz died down to a dull hum now that New Formalism is over 20 years old? And are there novitiates in great numbers? The other effect I observe is the doppler of "What's dat?" Things are over, have come & gone, before one is even half-aware of them. One picks up the dying sound of their doppler as they are passing into history. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, Sep 5 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In a message dated 9/5/2007 11:19:30 AM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really think of her as strongly formal. Though I know she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. We are still here, and we won't go away. Sam _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 15:15:29 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:15:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <8C9BE053E551D2C-F38-7C91@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9BE053E551D2C-F38-7C91@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: And imagine how quickly we must seem to pass to them. Hal Today's Special "The Wordless Life" http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 5, 2007, at 2:53 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > The other effect I observe is the doppler of "What's dat?" > Things are over, have come & gone, before one is even half-aware of > them. > One picks up the dying sound of their doppler as they are passing > into history. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Sep 5 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > In a message dated 9/5/2007 11:19:30 AM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: >> In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism >> seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So >> over' already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't >> really think of her as strongly formal. Though I know >> she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal >> leanings. > > We are still here, and we won't go away. > > Sam > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry > mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/ > mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 15:19:28 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:19:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <43B91BB0-87E5-4DBA-97D2-06455F0410CA@earthlink.net> You may not be an "old wine in new bottles" sort of guy, Skip, but you sure are a long lines in narrow windows critter. Hal ". . . the old is too old and the new is too old." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 5, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Christian Bok famously says, ?Newness is value? as though its also > a central condition. He says this has been true since the early > 20th century modernists. > > > I wonder. > > > I believe it has value, but not only is newness not sufficient, > it?s not necessary to value, at least not in the way Bok and the > the movements in contemporary culture seem to maintain. I?m not an > ?old wine in new bottles? sort (?We write the same poem over and > over?), but there are essentials that we can deeply respond to > regardless of the guise or the fashion of the moment. (The fashion > of the moment, by they way, is called by other moments a ?period > style.?) > > > Skip > > > ?Grace / to be born and live as variously as possible.? > > --Frank O?Hara > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:54 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > > But has the buzz died down to a dull hum now that New Formalism is > over 20 years old? > > And are there novitiates in great numbers? > > > The other effect I observe is the doppler of "What's dat?" > > Things are over, have come & gone, before one is even half-aware of > them. > > One picks up the dying sound of their doppler as they are passing > into history. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Sep 5 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > In a message dated 9/5/2007 11:19:30 AM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism > seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' > already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really > think of her as strongly formal. Though I know > she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. > > > We are still here, and we won't go away. > > Sam > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing > list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/ > listinfo/new-poetry > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Sep 5 15:49:49 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:49:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today Message-ID: In a message dated 9/5/2007 1:54:26 PM Central Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > But has the buzz died down to a dull hum now that New Formalism is over 20 > years old? > And are there novitiates in great numbers? > Quite a few now that younger poets are getting their books out. Jennifer Reeser, Catherine Tufariello, et al. The website www.eratosphere.com is a hotbed of this subversive metrical activity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 15:54:34 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:54:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5BF25F90-7CC4-486F-A5DC-BF0DDF6B1C12@earthlink.net> Subversive metrical activity--that's driving a cab in NYC while all the other cabbies are on strike. Hal "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --William S. Burroughs Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 5, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/5/2007 1:54:26 PM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: >> >> >> But has the buzz died down to a dull hum now that New Formalism is >> over 20 years old? >> And are there novitiates in great numbers? > > Quite a few now that younger poets are getting their books out. > Jennifer Reeser, Catherine Tufariello, et al. The website > www.eratosphere.com is a hotbed of this subversive metrical activity. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 5 16:10:38 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:10:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> I wonder too. And these arguments about "the new" are getting fairly long in the tooth, aren't they? I remember reading a book many years ago by Harold Rosenberg titled *The Tradition of the New*, which as I recall, surveyed trends in modernist art, literature, and society. Can't remember what his thesis was, if any, but the title always suggested for me one of the problems of modernism, one which post-modernism inherited and which no one, to my satisfaction, has credibly solved. (No doubt it goes back to the Romantics, at least, if not further.) The problem lies in the paradox of a "tradition of the new," and arrives in various flavors. For instance, if your guiding value is novelty, doesn't that mean that every new work is more or less instantly outmoded? And if rejection of "traditional tradition" is the chief virtue, doesn't that mean it's challenging if not impossible to come up with any positive standards of value that are not simply mirror images of whatever is/was popular? Which makes the the avant-garde seem, well, rather rear guard & merely reactive. And doesn't it also mean that assessing literary value becomes more or less impossible--since novelty per se can apply equally well to "great" works as drivel? In a nutshell: I don't think that setting up, say, Wordsworth as the gold standard against which all poetry must be measured makes much sense. But Not-Wordsworth makes no more sense to me. For "Wordsworth," of course, supply your own epithets: traditional, metrical, Iowa plaintext, language-centered, slam, formalist, mainstream, political, personal, "sincere," confessional, post- confessional, anti-confessional, etc. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 5, 2007, at 2:12 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Christian Bok famously says, ?Newness is value? as though its also > a central condition. He says this has been true since the early > 20th century modernists. > > > I wonder. > > > I believe it has value, but not only is newness not sufficient, > it?s not necessary to value, at least not in the way Bok and the > the movements in contemporary culture seem to maintain. I?m not an > ?old wine in new bottles? sort (?We write the same poem over and > over?), but there are essentials that we can deeply respond to > regardless of the guise or the fashion of the moment. (The fashion > of the moment, by they way, is called by other moments a ?period > style.?) > > > Skip > > > ?Grace / to be born and live as variously as possible.? > > --Frank O?Hara > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:54 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > > But has the buzz died down to a dull hum now that New Formalism is > over 20 years old? > > And are there novitiates in great numbers? > > > The other effect I observe is the doppler of "What's dat?" > > Things are over, have come & gone, before one is even half-aware of > them. > > One picks up the dying sound of their doppler as they are passing > into history. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wed, Sep 5 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today > > In a message dated 9/5/2007 11:19:30 AM Central Daylight Time, > jforjames at aol.com writes: > > > In this arena for aesthetic diversity, I notice that New Formalism > seems to be unrepresented in this forum. Is that movement 'So over' > already? Unless one counts rhymester Kay Ryan? But I don't really > think of her as strongly formal. Though I know > she's been championed by Dana Gioia among others with formal leanings. > > > We are still here, and we won't go away. > > Sam > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 5 16:49:51 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:49:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A certain weariness Message-ID: <387179FD-1AF5-4E8B-8B0E-1889F36FB815@ripon.edu> A certain weariness I don't want to be tired alone, I want you to grow tired along with me. How can we not be weary of the kind of fine ash which falls on cities in autumn, something which doesn't quite burn, which collects in jackets and little by little settles, discolouring the heart. I'm tired of the harsh sea and the mysterious earth. I'm tired of chickens -- we never know what they think, and they look at us with dry eyes as though we were unimportant. Let us for once--I invite you-- be tired of so many things, of awful aperitifs, of a good education. Tired of not going to France, tired of at least one or two days in the week which have always the same names like dishes on the table, and of getting up--what for? -- and going to bed without glory. Let us finally tell the truth: we never thought much of these days that are like houseflies or camels. I have seen some monuments raised to titans, to donkeys of industry. They're there, motionless, with their swords in their hands on their gloomy horses. I'm tired of statues. Enough of all that stone. If we go on filling up the world with still things, how can the living live? I am tired of remembering. I want men, when they're born, to breathe in naked flowers, fresh soil, pure fire, not just what everyone breathes. Leave the newborn in peace! Leave room for them to live! Don't think for them, don't read them the same book; let them discover the dawn and name their own kisses. I want you to be weary with me of all that is already well done, of all that ages us. Of all that lies in wait to wear out other people. Let us be weary of what kills and of what doesn't want to die. -- Pablo Neruda. Extravagaria. Trans. Alastair Reid. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1974. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Sep 5 19:00:39 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 18:00:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A certain weariness In-Reply-To: <387179FD-1AF5-4E8B-8B0E-1889F36FB815@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <000001c7f010$9a667f60$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Interesting in terms of "newness" discussion. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 3:50 PM To: NewPoetry & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] A certain weariness A certain weariness I don't want to be tired alone, I want you to grow tired along with me. How can we not be weary of the kind of fine ash which falls on cities in autumn, something which doesn't quite burn, which collects in jackets and little by little settles, discolouring the heart. I'm tired of the harsh sea and the mysterious earth. I'm tired of chickens -- we never know what they think, and they look at us with dry eyes as though we were unimportant. Let us for once--I invite you-- be tired of so many things, of awful aperitifs, of a good education. Tired of not going to France, tired of at least one or two days in the week which have always the same names like dishes on the table, and of getting up--what for? -- and going to bed without glory. Let us finally tell the truth: we never thought much of these days that are like houseflies or camels. I have seen some monuments raised to titans, to donkeys of industry. They're there, motionless, with their swords in their hands on their gloomy horses. I'm tired of statues. Enough of all that stone. If we go on filling up the world with still things, how can the living live? I am tired of remembering. I want men, when they're born, to breathe in naked flowers, fresh soil, pure fire, not just what everyone breathes. Leave the newborn in peace! Leave room for them to live! Don't think for them, don't read them the same book; let them discover the dawn and name their own kisses. I want you to be weary with me of all that is already well done, of all that ages us. Of all that lies in wait to wear out other people. Let us be weary of what kills and of what doesn't want to die. -- Pablo Neruda. Extravagaria. Trans. Alastair Reid. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1974. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 5 20:59:59 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:59:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > I wonder too. And these arguments about "the new" are getting fairly > long in the tooth, aren't they? > > But only dolts claim that only the new is good. What any poet worth a nickel should want to do is write a good poem that does not ENTIRELY repeat previous poems (except for trivialities like subject matter, themes, specific rhymes, etc.). --Bob G. From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 5 21:27:09 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:27:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] archipoetry Message-ID: <8C9BE3C2DA29C50-6D4-5DC8@FWM-D21.sysops.aol.com> A new subset of poetry: archipoetry http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/millennium-centre.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 21:37:10 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 21:37:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <731bb17a0709051837t7f7ee258mbca49a0f9285f675@mail.gmail.com> Why is subject matter a "triviality?" Jeff Newberry On 9/5/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > David Graham wrote: > > I wonder too. And these arguments about "the new" are getting fairly > > long in the tooth, aren't they? > > > > > But only dolts claim that only the new is good. What any poet worth a > nickel should want to do is write a good poem that does not ENTIRELY > repeat previous poems (except for trivialities like subject matter, > themes, specific rhymes, etc.). > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 5 21:45:16 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:45:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bert Meyers Message-ID: <8C9BE3EB5A06D8A-6D4-5EB1@FWM-D21.sysops.aol.com> http://www.forward.com/articles/11533/ The Cantakerous, Compelling Musings of Poet Bert Meyers Poetry Cole Krawitz | Wed. Sep 05, 2007 In a Dybbuk?s Raincoat: Collected Poems by Bert Meyers, edited by Daniel Meyers University of New Mexico Press, 295 pages, $24.95. Bert Meyers is what some might call ?a poet from the bones.? Meyers, a lyric poet, a proletarian poet, a poet who deplored any and all attempts to categorize a poet, creates work that presents itself as constant contradictions, as a parallel to living life and a reflection of his place in poetry. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 5 23:48:42 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:48:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > But only dolts claim that only the new is good. ------------------- See Pound ("make it new," etc.). The whole project of modernism is based on a dramatic rupture with tradition, and it's unclear to me that postmodernism has altered that basic oppositional equation. As for writing a poem that *entirely* repeats the past, good luck with that. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== David Graham wrote: > I wonder too. And these arguments about "the new" are getting > fairly long in the tooth, aren't they? > > > But only dolts claim that only the new is good. What any poet worth a nickel should want to do is write a good poem that does not ENTIRELY repeat previous poems (except for trivialities like subject matter, themes, specific rhymes, etc.). --Bob G -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 6 02:31:28 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:31:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu><46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <003401c7f04f$8eceab20$64ab3852@ANNY> Re.: As for writing a poem that *entirely* repeats the past, good luck with that. a good morning laugh, thanks From: David Graham Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:48 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: But only dolts claim that only the new is good. ------------------- See Pound ("make it new," etc.). The whole project of modernism is based on a dramatic rupture with tradition, and it's unclear to me that postmodernism has altered that basic oppositional equation. As for writing a poem that *entirely* repeats the past, good luck with that. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== David Graham wrote: I wonder too. And these arguments about "the new" are getting fairly long in the tooth, aren't they? But only dolts claim that only the new is good. What any poet worth a nickel should want to do is write a good poem that does not ENTIRELY repeat previous poems (except for trivialities like subject matter, themes, specific rhymes, etc.). --Bob G ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt at hotmail.com Thu Sep 6 04:21:43 2007 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:21:43 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions Message-ID: Hi, Poetry Sz:demystifying mental illness ( http://poetrysz.blogspot.com ) is calling for submissions. Send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Please read the submission guidelines first before submitting. Thanks. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ Live Search delivers results the way you like it. Try live.com now! http://www.live.com From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 6 08:01:24 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 07:01:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0709051837t7f7ee258mbca49a0f9285f675@mail.gmail.com> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu><46DF510F.8090205@n ut-n-but.net> <731bb17a0709051837t7f7ee258mbca49a0f9285f675@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46DFEC14.505@nut-n-but.net> Jeff Newberry wrote: > Why is subject matter a "triviality?" Subject matter is not a triviality. A change of subject matter is, however, for it not make a poem significantly different from other that are like it in all other ways. That's because every original poem is slightly different from every other original poem in subject matter. I concede that I'm exaggerating somewhat. There can be innovatively significant changes of subject. When poems started being used to treat tractors and other "unlofty" subjects, they were significately innovative. But change in technique is really about the only way one can be significantly innovative in poetry, it seems to me. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 6 08:12:58 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 07:12:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu><46DF510F.8090205@n ut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46DFEECA.8010305@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > > > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> But only dolts claim that only the new is good. Didn't realize I had to spell everything out on this beaten-to-death topic, but I guess I do. 1. Only dolts NOW claim that only the new is good (but they may be dolts only while making such a claim) 2. Of course, earlier poets went overboard at times, though I'm not sure Pound, who certainly never turned his back on tradition, ever said ONLY the new is good. He believed poets should not stick to the tried and true, that's all. > > See Pound ("make it new," etc.). The whole project of modernism is > based on a dramatic rupture with tradition, and it's unclear to me > that postmodernism has altered that basic oppositional equation. > > As for writing a poem that *entirely* repeats the past, good luck with > that. > Obviously I meant a poem that is entirely out of some tradition that's been around for decades, and entirely lacks anything previous previous poetry did not have. In other words, the poetry of every Pulitzer Prize poet we've had for the past twenty years or more. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 08:38:50 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:38:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <46DFEC14.505@nut-n-but.net> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0709051837t7f7ee258mbca49a0f9285f675@mail.gmail.com> <46DFEC14.505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <731bb17a0709060538w652cc088t6275079e8a5fa487@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Bob. I think that I see where you're coming from. I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) critics & poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. I suppose William Matthews says it best, however: "Dull subjects are those we have failed." Best, Jeff Newberry On 9/6/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > Jeff Newberry wrote: > > Why is subject matter a "triviality?" > > > Subject matter is not a triviality. A change of subject matter is, > however, for it not make a poem significantly different from other that > are like it in all other ways. That's because every original poem is > slightly different from every other original poem in subject matter. I > concede that I'm exaggerating somewhat. There can be innovatively > significant changes of subject. When poems started being used to treat > tractors and other "unlofty" subjects, they were significately > innovative. But change in technique is really about the only way one > can be significantly innovative in poetry, it seems to me. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 08:52:16 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:52:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2007 8:39:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) critics & poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. re that point...I post this to my blog last month: One of T.S. Eliot?s sillier notions was that the poem?s content was little more than a bit of meat that a burglar carries with him to distract the house dog while he steals away with the valuables. My mind-keep is guarded by a beast that could tear the three heads off Cerberus. So that poet-burglar better be dragging the carcass of a water buffalo. Finnegan _http://ursprache.blogspot.com/_ (http://ursprache.blogspot.com/) (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 09:14:25 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:14:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I've got that project under way, David, and I'm almost up to the Big Bang. Hal "We are the zanies of sorrow." --Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 5, 2007, at 11:48 PM, David Graham wrote: > > As for writing a poem that *entirely* repeats the past, good luck > with that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 09:16:45 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:16:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Montale on content, time, art and poetry Message-ID: There is still an art which tries to escape from time but nevertheless bears the characteristics of our epoch and consequently supplies far from ignoble material for intellectual entertainment. Yet the potential material of art, the content of art is diminishing just as the difference between individuals is diminishing. Our epoch has destroyed art by scrutinizing its nature. It has made art into a copy of something which exists in ourselves and has no need of expression, of ?works?. Wherever we look we see a rush towards imitation and anonymity, and it would be absurd to expect that when the collective block has reached its grade of maximum solidarity the very idea of an individual art, or of any sort of art, should seem anything other than outrageous. What remains irrefutable is the presence of a universal protest which is not aimed at any particular political or social regime but at our unnatural way of living. And poetry, which is generally ahead of its time, may go so far ahead as to seem behind in time. --Eugenio Montale, Poet In Our Time, translated by Alastair Hamilton, Marion Boyars 1976, 42-43 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 09:17:46 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:17:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0709060538w652cc088t6275079e8a5fa487@mail.gmail.com> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0709051837t7f7ee258mbca49a0f9285f675@mail.gmail.com> <46DFEC14.505@nut-n-but.net> <731bb17a0709060538w652cc088t6275079e8a5fa487@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: And I say, "Dull subjects is those that always agree with their verbs." Hal "Way down the deserted street, I thought I saw a bus which, with luck, might get me out of this sentence . . ." --Rosmarie Waldrop Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:38 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > Thanks, Bob. I think that I see where you're coming from. > > I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) > critics & poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. > > I suppose William Matthews says it best, however: "Dull subjects > are those we have failed." > > Best, > Jeff Newberry > > > On 9/6/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > Jeff Newberry wrote: > > Why is subject matter a "triviality?" > > > Subject matter is not a triviality. A change of subject matter is, > however, for it not make a poem significantly different from other > that > are like it in all other ways. That's because every original poem is > slightly different from every other original poem in subject > matter. I > concede that I'm exaggerating somewhat. There can be innovatively > significant changes of subject. When poems started being used to > treat > tractors and other "unlofty" subjects, they were significately > innovative. But change in technique is really about the only way one > can be significantly innovative in poetry, it seems to me. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 09:19:39 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 09:19:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The notion that poems must have subjects is equally silly. Hal "What do I know of man's destiny? I could tell you more about radishes." --Samuel Beckett Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:52 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/6/2007 8:39:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: > > I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) > critics & poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. > > re that point...I post this to my blog last month: > > One of T.S. Eliot?s sillier notions was that the poem?s content was > little more than a bit of meat that a burglar carries with him to > distract the house dog while he steals away with the valuables. My > mind-keep is guarded by a beast that could tear the three heads off > Cerberus. So that poet-burglar better be dragging the carcass of a > water buffalo. > > Finnegan > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 09:50:34 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:50:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Montale on content, time, art and poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60709060650k1a5d9c9eo809218e23b1409f8@mail.gmail.com> Individuality is, of course, an illusion. Think of the basis on which we differentiate individuals. Content? - Jim On 9/6/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > There is still an art which tries to escape from time but nevertheless bears > the characteristics of our epoch and consequently supplies far from ignoble > material for intellectual entertainment. Yet the potential material of art, > the content of art is diminishing just as the difference between individuals > is diminishing. > > Our epoch has destroyed art by scrutinizing its nature. It has made art into > a copy of something which exists in ourselves and has no need of expression, > of "works". Wherever we look we see a rush towards imitation and anonymity, > and it would be absurd to expect that when the collective block has reached > its grade of maximum solidarity the very idea of an individual art, or of > any sort of art, should seem anything other than outrageous. > > What remains irrefutable is the presence of a universal protest which is not > aimed at any particular political or social regime but at our unnatural way > of living. > > And poetry, which is generally ahead of its time, may go so far ahead as to > seem behind in time. > > --Eugenio Montale, Poet In Our Time, translated by Alastair Hamilton, Marion > Boyars 1976, 42-43 > > > > ________________________________ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/cervantes.james/SanMiguelDeAllende From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 09:52:59 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:52:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <648208b60709060652v588c6e5asc6e9e3fc2f4e3d56@mail.gmail.com> Oh God, Hal! Or is it, Oh Hal, God! Oh well, as I deduced long ago, the universe is a whole passleful of mirror images. - Jim On 9/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I've got that project under way, David, and I'm almost > up to the Big Bang. > > Hal > > > "We are the zanies of sorrow." > --Oscar Wilde > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 11:48 PM, David Graham wrote: > > > As for writing a poem that *entirely* repeats the past, good luck with that. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/cervantes.james/SanMiguelDeAllende From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 09:53:58 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:53:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60709060653r267d7811ue47f617c3efb7641@mail.gmail.com> Same goes for e-mails, huh. - Jim On 9/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The notion that poems must have subjects is equally silly. > > Hal > > > "What do I know of man's destiny? I could > tell you more about radishes." > --Samuel Beckett > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:52 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 9/6/2007 8:39:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: > > > I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) critics & > poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. > > > re that point...I post this to my blog last month: > > One of T.S. Eliot's sillier notions was that the poem's content was little > more than a bit of meat that a burglar carries with him to distract the > house dog while he steals away with the valuables. My mind-keep is guarded > by a beast that could tear the three heads off Cerberus. So that > poet-burglar better be dragging the carcass of a water buffalo. > > Finnegan > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > > ________________________________ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/cervantes.james/SanMiguelDeAllende From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 10:52:32 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:52:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9BEACB0831255-820-6CA1@webmail-da07.sysops.aol.com> No subject?, never mind. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:19 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters The notion that poems must have subjects is equally silly. Hal ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 11:26:38 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:26:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Aesthetic Diversity in Poetry Today In-Reply-To: <648208b60709060652v588c6e5asc6e9e3fc2f4e3d56@mail.gmail.com> References: <001301c7eff0$c282f3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <2B24867F-65E1-4AA1-B03F-373DDA822D79@ripon.edu> <46DF510F.8090205@nut-n-but.net> <648208b60709060652v588c6e5asc6e9e3fc2f4e3d56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C9BEB1742A3FEB-820-6F04@webmail-da07.sysops.aol.com> Jorie Graham had a phase in her poetry when she was leaving blank lines to indicate something was escaping her mind or beyond her?imagination,?from Big Bang 13.7 Billion years to the time Earth?formed and became inhabited as a planet,?must have been a really boring stretch in the poem...but as Joubert put it, Not everything in a poem is poetry. BB--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Earth--------Us? On 9/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I've got that project under way, David, and I'm almost > up to the Big Bang. > > Hal > > ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Sep 6 11:40:17 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:40:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: <648208b60709060653r267d7811ue47f617c3efb7641@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Could you have a poem without a subject? Seems impossible. Even a random list of words is about a randomization, the arbitrary, the projective/creative/pattern-making abilities of the reader, or whatever. Not to be silly, but if someone writes a bland poem about his or her religion, is not the poem about their feelings, fears, desires, will to believe, etc. (depending on the poem)? That's an extreme, but can't we wonder if the poet is in the best position to _know_ (in the way we we seem to be assuming that knowing might mean) what the poem means? That is, do we expect him or her to be able to know the poem's subject in an articulate, paraphrasable, and accurate manner? I would answer that by noting the question is too binary: either/or. I have work that I can parse its subject and meaning down to a surprising registration. I'm sure most of you have the same. Other poems resist my knowing. Others hover in between, and sometimes I think I know, but later find out differently. skip "Fiction Is Foreplay" (sticker du jour) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of James Cervantes Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:54 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Same goes for e-mails, huh. - Jim On 9/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > The notion that poems must have subjects is equally silly. > > Hal > > > "What do I know of man's destiny? I could > tell you more about radishes." > --Samuel Beckett > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:52 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 9/6/2007 8:39:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: > > > I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) critics & > poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. > > > re that point...I post this to my blog last month: > > One of T.S. Eliot's sillier notions was that the poem's content was little > more than a bit of meat that a burglar carries with him to distract the > house dog while he steals away with the valuables. My mind-keep is guarded > by a beast that could tear the three heads off Cerberus. So that > poet-burglar better be dragging the carcass of a water buffalo. > > Finnegan > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > > ________________________________ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/cervantes.james/SanMiguelDeAllende _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 12:56:14 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about fourteen lines long." Q: How long do one's legs have to be? A: Long enough to reach the ground when you're standing or walking. Hal "Cost of living now outweighs benefits." --The Onion Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 11:40 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > Could you have a poem without a subject? Seems > impossible. Even a random list of words is > about a randomization, the arbitrary, the > projective/creative/pattern-making abilities > of the reader, or whatever. > > Not to be silly, but if someone writes a bland poem > about his or her religion, is not the poem about their > feelings, fears, desires, will to believe, etc. > (depending on the poem)? > > That's an extreme, but can't we wonder if the poet > is in the best position to _know_ (in the way we > we seem to be assuming that knowing might mean) what > the poem means? That is, do we expect him or her to be > able to know the poem's subject in an articulate, > paraphrasable, and accurate manner? > > I would answer that by noting the question is too > binary: either/or. I have work that I can parse its > subject and meaning down to a surprising registration. > I'm sure most of you have the same. Other poems resist > my knowing. Others hover in between, and sometimes I > think I know, but later find out differently. > > skip > > > "Fiction Is Foreplay" > (sticker du jour) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of James > Cervantes > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:54 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters > > Same goes for e-mails, huh. > > - Jim > > On 9/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> The notion that poems must have subjects is equally silly. >> >> Hal >> >> >> "What do I know of man's destiny? I could >> tell you more about radishes." >> --Samuel Beckett >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:52 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> >> >> In a message dated 9/6/2007 8:39:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >> jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: >> >> >> I suppose I just bristle at the dismissive attitude some (not all) >> critics > & >> poets have toward the subject matter of a poem. >> >> >> re that point...I post this to my blog last month: >> >> One of T.S. Eliot's sillier notions was that the poem's content >> was little >> more than a bit of meat that a burglar carries with him to >> distract the >> house dog while he steals away with the valuables. My mind-keep is >> guarded >> by a beast that could tear the three heads off Cerberus. So that >> poet-burglar better be dragging the carcass of a water buffalo. >> >> Finnegan >> http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/cervantes.james/SanMiguelDeAllende > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 12:58:59 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:58:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Shearsman - new titles In-Reply-To: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8911C2@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> References: <954A5413620E074797298540927621C50D8911C2@sjcexchange.SJC.EDU> Message-ID: <8C9BEBE5AD94898-900-776C@FWM-M15.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Frazer [mailto:shearsman at mac.com] Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 3:10 PM To: Tony Frazer Subject: Shearsman - new titles Available now, and in a couple of cases (*) before the end of the? month, are the following titles: Fernando Pessoa: The Collected Poems of Alberto Caeiro translated by Chris Daniels. The first complete edition of one of Pessoa's heteronyms in English. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/pessoa_caeiro.html Fernando Pessoa: Message translated by Jonathan Griffin. Second edition of the mid-90s Menard publication. Bilingual, and the? only complete edition of Message available in English. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/pessoa_msg.html Fernando Pessoa: Selected English Poems edited by Tony Frazer Pessoa wrote a large number of poems in English, some of them in the? guise of early heteronyms (such as Alexander Search and C R Anon)? which prove to be fascinating precursors of the later, modernist work? in Portuguese. While not the equal of the masterly Caeiro, Campos,? Reis or Pessoa-himself, these poems deserve to be better known and at? least available in the English-speaking world. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/pessoa_engl.html Toby Olson: Darklight Author of nine novels (among others The Life of Jesus, Seaview and? Utah) and over 20 collections of poetry (including We Are the Fire -? Selected Poems, and Human Nature, both from New Directions), Toby? Olson demonstrates in this new collection that the passage of time? has only sharpened his narrative voice. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/olson.html Colin Simms: Gyrfalcon Poems (*) A collection that gathers most of Simms' poems about these falcons,? and his third such gathering for Shearsman. Part of a long project to? bring most of his work into print. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/simms_gyr.html Rosal?a de Castro: Selected Poems translated by Michael Smith The largest selection available in English of Rosal?a's poetry, this? bilingual (or trilingual, as Galician poems are also featured) is? essential anyone interested in Spanish poetry. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/castro.html Gustavo Adolfo B?cquer: Collected Poems - Rimas translated by Michael Smith; edited by Luis Ingelmo & Michael Smith. The only complete edition of B?cquer in English, and as thorough as? any Spanish edition. B?cquer was a revolutionary figure in Spanish? poetry, as the godfather of romanticism in Spanish. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2007/becquer.html There are another 10 or so books before the end of the year, just in? case there's not enough to read here.... _____________________________________________ Tony Frazer Shearsman Books Ltd 58 Velwell Road Exeter EX4 4LD England Tel / Fax: (+44) (0) 1392-434511 http://www.shearsman.com/ _____________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 14:12:27 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:12:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] reBuke Message-ID: <8C9BEC89E356CF9-51C-2B72@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/09/bukowski.html Guardian Unlimited: Arts blog - books Don't blame Bukowski for bad poetry Tony O'Neill September 5, 2007 8:15 AM "Everybody hates us, and we don't care" was an infamous chant that originated on the terraces of Millwall football club. But it is a sentiment that I sometimes feel could just as easily be applied to fans of Charles Bukowski. With the release of Bukowski's fifth posthumous poetry collection, The People Look Like Flowers At Last (Ecco), now seems as good a time as any for a consideration of Bukowski's work and worth. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 15:34:17 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:34:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: <510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> References: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9BED40C846ABD-51C-3195@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something like a scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the?text but doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with the text, it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the reader's delving. If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject matter? And so on... A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but few good poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, except maybe that... There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of what gets practised/made. Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are about something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than a passage or a half page. Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words altogether if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? Finnnegan nal Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters nal Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks? "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about? fourteen lines long."? ? Q: How long do one's legs have to be?? A: Long enough to reach the ground when? ? you're standing or walking.? ? Hal? ? " ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 6 15:58:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:58:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters References: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> <8C9BED40C846ABD-51C-3195@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002d01c7f0c0$56a9e3b0$508f3052@ANNY> whistling and dancing, I'd go for it, :-) Halvard is such an epigrammatic soul he himself has so many subjects with those sonnets among his favorites Bush Cheney & company From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something like a scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the text but doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with the text, it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the reader's delving. If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject matter? And so on... A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but few good poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, except maybe that... There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of what gets practised/made. Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are about something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than a passage or a half page. Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words altogether if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? Finnnegan nal Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about fourteen lines long." Q: How long do one's legs have to be? A: Long enough to reach the ground when you're standing or walking. Hal " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 16:44:35 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:44:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: <8C9BED40C846ABD-51C-3195@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> References: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> <8C9BED40C846ABD-51C-3195@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Well, as I said before, I don't think poems need to have subject, though sometimes they may indeed have subjects, and often they may seem to have subjects. The point of my quip was that poems do not need to be "about" anything. Which is to say, they don't need to be discursive, in the way prose usually is. I might have to agree with Skip, though, that poems are "about" subjects such as words, phrases, sentences, sounds, images, even ideas. Which is something like saying playgrounds are "about" knees and shins and muscles and lungs, not to mention kids and au pairs. Hal "Poetic statements are no more actual statements than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert." --Susanne K. Langer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 3:34 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something > like a > scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the text but > doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with the > text, > it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the > reader's delving. > If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can > discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject > matter? And > so on... > A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but > few good > poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, > except > maybe that... > > There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded > content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) > or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together > in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. > But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like > visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of > what gets practised/made. > > Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry > here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are > about > something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than > a passage or a half page. > > Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words > altogether > if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? > Finnnegan > > nal Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters > > Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks > "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about > fourteen lines long." > > Q: How long do one's legs have to be? > A: Long enough to reach the ground when > you're standing or walking. > > Hal > > " > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 6 17:06:37 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 23:06:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 9/06/2007 10:25:00 PM Message-ID: <00c601c7f0c9$d086b3d0$508f3052@ANNY> I am putting some pictures on my blog. My old digital camera can still give some interesting effects, I particularly like this pic ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:29 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 9/06/2007 10:25:00 PM -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 9/06/2007 10:25:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Sep 6 17:50:28 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:50:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7f0cf$f625aff0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Yes, well, my real point was that there is a spectrum in terms of poetry that we can be said to know has or lacks a subject, even in the non-critical sense of _knowing_. Some seem meaningless and without subjects, some seem to clearly have them. And, as Finnegan noted, some poems both lack and have. And their are many points in between. Compare Eliot's Sweeney poems with "Journey of the Magi." And then there is the question: Is it the poet's conscious intention which apprehends the subject? What if he thinks "Journey of the Magi" is about faithful patience in a fallen world and its eventual rewards? And what if it's really about a consciousness trapped in a spiritual/temporal limbo? Or whatever. I think the issue of subject that it's highly problematic, yet lovely to contemplate. Like most things human, various, multivalent, bungling, clear, revealing as it conceals and vice versa, etc. (I'm trying to break lines to make them shorter but it doesn't seem to always work.) skip The Ride Bestrides Its Time (sticka du manana) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:45 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Well, as I said before, I don't think poems need to have subject, though sometimes they may indeed have subjects, and often they may seem to have subjects. The point of my quip was that poems do not need to be "about" anything. Which is to say, they don't need to be discursive, in the way prose usually is. I might have to agree with Skip, though, that poems are "about" subjects such as words, phrases, sentences, sounds, images, even ideas. Which is something like saying playgrounds are "about" knees and shins and muscles and lungs, not to mention kids and au pairs. Hal "Poetic statements are no more actual statements than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert." --Susanne K. Langer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 3:34 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something like a scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the text but doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with the text, it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the reader's delving. If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject matter? And so on... A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but few good poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, except maybe that... There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of what gets practised/made. Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are about something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than a passage or a half page. Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words altogether if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? Finnnegan nal Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about fourteen lines long." Q: How long do one's legs have to be? A: Long enough to reach the ground when you're standing or walking. Hal " _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 18:14:54 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 18:14:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: <000001c7f0cf$f625aff0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7f0cf$f625aff0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <07C8884C-EE7E-4311-8981-8AAE12454DFC@earthlink.net> As for me, Skip, I've never encountered a poem without meaning. Meaningfulness to me means meaning is there whether put there by the poet or the reader or someone else. If there seems to be a subject to the reader, then to the reader there's a subject there whether or not the poet intended one to be there. If a reader finds a different subject there than the one the poet thought he or she put there then it's quite possible that both or neither are "correct." I mean, if there are Mexican truck drivers on North American highways and nobody honks, are they really there? Hal "Context is everything that content is not." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Yes, well, my real point was that there is a spectrum in terms > > of poetry that we can be said to know has or lacks a subject, > > even in the non-critical sense of _knowing_. Some seem meaningless > > and without subjects, some seem to clearly have them. And, as > > Finnegan noted, some poems both lack and have. And their are > > many points in between. Compare Eliot?s Sweeney poems with > > ?Journey of the Magi.? > > > And then there is the question: Is it the poet?s conscious intention > > which apprehends the subject? What if he thinks ?Journey of the Magi? > > is about faithful patience in a fallen world and its eventual > rewards? And > > what if it?s really about a consciousness trapped in a spiritual/ > temporal limbo? > > Or whatever. > > > I think the issue of subject that it?s highly problematic, yet > lovely to contemplate. > > Like most things human, various, multivalent, bungling, clear, > revealing as it > > conceals and vice versa, etc. > > > (I?m trying to break lines to make them shorter but it doesn?t > > seem to always work.) > > > skip > > > > The Ride Bestrides Its Time > > (sticka du manana) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:45 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters > > > Well, as I said before, I don't think poems need to have subject, > > though sometimes they may indeed have subjects, and often they > > may seem to have subjects. The point of my quip was that poems > > do not need to be "about" anything. Which is to say, they don't > > need to be discursive, in the way prose usually is. > > > I might have to agree with Skip, though, that poems are "about" > > subjects such as words, phrases, sentences, sounds, images, even > > ideas. Which is something like saying playgrounds are "about" > > knees and shins and muscles and lungs, not to mention kids and > > au pairs. > > > Hal > > > "Poetic statements are no more actual statements > > than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert." > > --Susanne K. Langer > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > On Sep 6, 2007, at 3:34 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something > like a > scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the text but > doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with the > text, > it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the > reader's delving. > If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can > discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject > matter? And > so on... > > A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but > few good > poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, > except > maybe that... > > > There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded > content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) > or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together > in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. > But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like > visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of > what gets practised/made. > > > Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry > here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are > about > something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than > a passage or a half page. > > > Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words > altogether > if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? > Finnnegan > > nal Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters > > Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks > "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about > fourteen lines long." > > Q: How long do one's legs have to be? > A: Long enough to reach the ground when > you're standing or walking. > > Hal > > " > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 6 19:30:43 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:30:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Situations 7 Message-ID: <46E08DA3.7060907@opus40.org> In Episode Seven, evil asserts itself as Bob journeys to Harlan County for a temporary alliance with Trisha, and Howalachuk and Roland are left holding the meat...not as they had planned it. http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 6 19:32:42 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:32:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Message-ID: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Sep 6 19:53:19 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:53:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> Message-ID: You might want to try Munyori Poetry Journal, which debuts October 5 at http://www.munyori.com/call_for_submissions -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:33 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 20:01:53 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:01:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: References: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> <8C9BED40C846ABD-51C-3195@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9BEF96EC4DA51-FE4-A6DA@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Hal, I know you're fond of playing the angles in certain debates, and that's a good thing. I bristle at a contemporary poetics which has trouble with content, actual ideas and thinking or narrative elements. (The other bete noir of contemporary theorists is 'truth/sincerity' in poetry.) I normally agree with Langer, but the quote below seems wrong to me. Sure language and painting make use of?representation. But some, not all, art depends on the writer-reader?or?artist-viewer entering into a tacit contract, to agree without overt negotiation that what is being said or shown has some actual content, is meant to convey a particular notion or view of the world... that what?it represents has a reality that both parties can and do?recognize and understand. Berkeley has?his famous quip: "What is mind? Never matter. What is?matter? Never mind." It's a circle. The only way to break it is for the artist and viewer to agree (instantly) that a real peach exists like the?one in the dish. And it would taste good, if it could be lifted out of the matrix of chroma and brushstrokes that it is really and really be put to one's mouth. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 4:44 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Well, as I said before, I don't think poems need to have subject, though sometimes they may indeed have subjects, and often they may seem to have subjects. The point of my quip was that poems do not need to be "about" anything. Which is to say, they don't need to be discursive, in the way prose usually is.? I might have to agree with Skip, though, that poems are "about" subjects such as words, phrases, sentences, sounds, images, even ideas. Which?is something like saying playgrounds are "about"? knees and shins?and muscles and lungs, not to mention kids and? au pairs. Hal "Poetic statements are no more actual statements ?than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert." --Susanne K. Langer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 3:34 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something like a scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the?text but doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with the text, it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the reader's delving. If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject matter? And so on... A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but few good poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, except maybe that... There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of what gets practised/made. Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are about something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than a passage or a half page. Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words altogether if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? Finnnegan nal Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks? "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about? fourteen lines long."? ? Q: How long do one's legs have to be?? A: Long enough to reach the ground when? ? you're standing or walking.? ? Hal? ? " Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 20:08:42 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:08:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> One of the?asst.?editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get each year. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor?? ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Sep 6 20:10:21 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:10:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Editors always complain about A or B, don't they? I am one of them. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:09 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get each year. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? ________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 20:22:31 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 19:22:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60709061722i39eb6eccnc90a36ff9bd51e82@mail.gmail.com> WE don't want to talk about that because WE'D like to get published in Poetry. p.s - Why didn't they call it the Non-Humorous issue+ On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained > that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get > each year. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to be > welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > > > > ________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ ~ http://picasaweb.google.com/cervantes.james/SanMiguelDeAllende From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 6 20:22:56 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:22:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E099E0.3070603@opus40.org> If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny stuff. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 6 20:24:53 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:24:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E09A55.8080501@opus40.org> Do you have more problems with A or with B? Sigauke, Emmanuel wrote: > Editors always complain about A or B, don't they? I am one of them. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of > *jforjames at aol.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:09 PM > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Sep 6 20:26:26 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:26:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <46E09A55.8080501@opus40.org> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <46E09A55.8080501@opus40.org> Message-ID: Mostly B; sometimes A screams for attention. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:25 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Do you have more problems with A or with B? Sigauke, Emmanuel wrote: > Editors always complain about A or B, don't they? I am one of them. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of > *jforjames at aol.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:09 PM > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL > Mail > ! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 20:28:32 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:28:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9BEFD27A6D26F-FE4-A81E@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> By and large they've earned the right. Where would poetry be without the considerable efforts and resources expended of many editors and publishers over the years? Often doing what they do for little more than the love of the art they themselves engage in. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Sigauke, Emmanuel Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:10 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Editors always complain about A or B, don't they? I am one of them. From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:09 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles One of the?asst.?editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get each year. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor?? ? Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 6 20:35:43 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:35:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <46E099E0.3070603@opus40.org> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <46E099E0.3070603@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Tad, I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to think?has?wedded death to earth. Anyway, David Graham knows the whole story. I think he wrote a letter to her (I think her name is Emily, you could check the masthead) citing a number of contemporary poets who were no strangers to the comic. I'm sure she was probably right if the measurement was a random sampling of her slush pile. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny stuff.? ? jforjames at aol.com wrote:? > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year.? >? > Finnegan? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: TheOldMole ? > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com? > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm? > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles? >? > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > >? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > !? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 6 20:51:46 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:51:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <46E099E0.3070603@opus40.org> <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E0A0A2.3090204@opus40.org> Whoops. Well, I was just being a smartass. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Tad, > I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to > think has wedded death to earth. > > Anyway, David Graham knows the whole story. I think he wrote a letter > to her (I think > her name is Emily, you could check the masthead) citing a number of > contemporary > poets who were no strangers to the comic. I'm sure she was probably right > if the measurement was a random sampling of her slush pile. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:22 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny > stuff. > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > > submissions they get each year. > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TheOldMole > > > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely > to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic > endeavor? > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > > > ! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 21:42:24 2007 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:42:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained > that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get > each year. > > Finnegan What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty poems? I have never been able to figure that out. I think humor is one of the highest forms of intelligence. Its a kind of emotional transcendance, an ability to break through the bullshit and defalte it with laughter. What could be more valuable in a poem? A lack of a sense of humor just stinks of cowardice. Someone explain this to me please. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atelierjewelweed at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 21:43:49 2007 From: atelierjewelweed at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:43:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <46E099E0.3070603@opus40.org> <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Tad, > I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to think has wedded > death to earth. Now that cracked me up. I love it. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 23:34:40 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 23:34:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <46E099E0.3070603@opus40.org> <8C9BEFE28D87F2F-FE4-A873@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2A75AB76-3D45-4276-A703-3B4B1B3E42EB@earthlink.net> "Dearth" is a wonderful word. So much in there besides "death" and "earth." There's "heart" and "art" and "heat" and "dear." Oh, "dart" and "ear" as well. And I've probably forgotten some. Hal "Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Tad, > I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to think has > wedded death to earth. > > Anyway, David Graham knows the whole story. I think he wrote a > letter to her (I think > her name is Emily, you could check the masthead) citing a number of > contemporary > poets who were no strangers to the comic. I'm sure she was probably > right > if the measurement was a random sampling of her slush pile. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:22 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny > stuff. > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > > submissions they get each year. > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TheOldMole > > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more > likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in > poetic endeavor? > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL > Mail > index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>! > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 23:38:27 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 23:38:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] subject matters In-Reply-To: <8C9BEF96EC4DA51-FE4-A6DA@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <000001c7f09c$3fa06870$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <510AB9CA-533F-442C-9379-DE85277233EB@earthlink.net> <8C9BED40C846ABD-51C-3195@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> <8C9BEF96EC4DA51-FE4-A6DA@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5B565C64-D1F0-45BD-8115-87D23F299394@earthlink.net> I don't claim to have a poetics, Jim. And I have no problem with any of those things you list. My problem is only with those who insist that any of them are . . . well what? De rigeur? Hal "The trouble with words is that you never know whose mouths they've been in." --Dennis Potter Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:01 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Hal, I know you're fond of playing the angles in certain debates, > and that's > a good thing. I bristle at a contemporary poetics which has trouble > with content, actual ideas and thinking or narrative elements. > (The other bete noir of contemporary theorists is 'truth/sincerity' > in poetry.) > > I normally agree with Langer, but the quote below seems wrong to me. > Sure language and painting make use of representation. But some, > not all, art > depends on the writer-reader or artist-viewer entering into a tacit > contract, > to agree without overt negotiation that what is being said or shown > has some > actual content, is meant to convey a particular notion or view of > the world... > that what it represents has a reality that both parties can and do > recognize and > understand. > > Berkeley has his famous quip: "What is mind? Never matter. What is > matter? Never mind." > It's a circle. The only way to break it is for the artist and > viewer to agree > (instantly) that a real peach exists like the one in the dish. And > it would taste good, > if it could be lifted out of the matrix of chroma and brushstrokes > that it is really > and really be put to one's mouth. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 4:44 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters > > Well, as I said before, I don't think poems need to have subject, > though sometimes they may indeed have subjects, and often they > may seem to have subjects. The point of my quip was that poems > do not need to be "about" anything. Which is to say, they don't > need to be discursive, in the way prose usually is. > > I might have to agree with Skip, though, that poems are "about" > subjects such as words, phrases, sentences, sounds, images, even > ideas. Which is something like saying playgrounds are "about" > knees and shins and muscles and lungs, not to mention kids and > au pairs. > > Hal > > "Poetic statements are no more actual statements > than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert." > --Susanne K. Langer > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Sep 6, 2007, at 3:34 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> Nice quip, but wouldn't that make the reader's mind into something >> like a >> scanner with OCR technology? A machine that recognizes the text but >> doesn't read it per se. If reading is an active engagement with >> the text, >> it seems to me that no aspect of the poem is offlimits to the >> reader's delving. >> If you can analyze the sounds, why not the subject matter? If you can >> discuss the vocabulary/lexicon employed, why not the subject >> matter? And >> so on... >> A reader should avoid irritable reaching after (pace Keats), but >> few good >> poems can get away without even a hint of being about something, >> except >> maybe that... >> >> There are dadaist and language poetries that have scrupulously evaded >> content (although not always as successfully as they think they have) >> or used odd bits & pieces of words/language that don't fit together >> in a way that makes communication or a communion of minds possible. >> But that's more of a subset of the artform we call poetry, and like >> visual poetry (sorry, Bob) and sound poetry,it's not the core of >> what gets practised/made. >> >> Then in certain poems there are those flights and fits of pure poetry >> here & there. Often inside poems that one would otherwise say are >> about >> something. Yet it's generally not something sustained over more than >> a passage or a half page. >> >> Wouldn't it be better to take up whistling and to avoid words >> altogether >> if you so much wanted to avoid being understood? >> Finnnegan >> >> nal Message----- >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 12:56 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] subject matters >> >> Seems to me that the best answer when someone asks >> "What's this poem about?" would be, say, "Oh, about >> fourteen lines long." >> >> Q: How long do one's legs have to be? >> A: Long enough to reach the ground when >> you're standing or walking. >> >> Hal >> >> " >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Sep 7 11:05:46 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 10:05:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <2A75AB76-3D45-4276-A703-3B4B1B3E42EB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004801c7f160$97bfc3b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> And a coma inside of every comma, see? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:35 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles "Dearth" is a wonderful word. So much in there besides "death" and "earth." There's "heart" and "art" and "heat" and "dear." Oh, "dart" and "ear" as well. And I've probably forgotten some. Hal "Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Tad, I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to think has wedded death to earth. Anyway, David Graham knows the whole story. I think he wrote a letter to her (I think her name is Emily, you could check the masthead) citing a number of contemporary poets who were no strangers to the comic. I'm sure she was probably right if the measurement was a random sampling of her slush pile. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny stuff. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Sep 7 11:22:17 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:22:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <004801c7f160$97bfc3b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <004801c7f160$97bfc3b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Not to mention the "om." Hal "I think pigs should be allowed to run free--just like politicians." --Edna Buchanan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 7, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > And a coma inside of every comma, see? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:35 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > "Dearth" is a wonderful word. So much in there besides "death" > > and "earth." There's "heart" and "art" and "heat" and "dear." > > Oh, "dart" and "ear" as well. And I've probably forgotten > > some. > > > Hal > > > "Imagination is more important > > than knowledge." > > --Albert Einstein > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > Tad, > I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to think has > wedded death to earth. > > Anyway, David Graham knows the whole story. I think he wrote a > letter to her (I think > her name is Emily, you could check the masthead) citing a number of > contemporary > poets who were no strangers to the comic. I'm sure she was probably > right > if the measurement was a random sampling of her slush pile. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:22 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny > stuff. > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > > submissions they get each year. > > > > Finnegan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: TheOldMole > > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more > likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in > poetic endeavor? > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL > Mail > index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>! > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 7 11:49:53 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:49:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9BF7DDDA3F30A-B8C-7744@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Suzanne, there is no aversion. I was saying the editor of Poetry wanted to see more humorous poems submitted to poetry...she stated that she wasn't seeing enough of them. http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0706/ David Graham tried to point out to her in a letter, as I recall,?that there were quite few poets who regularly published funny poems. But I thnk the Poetry?editor was correct...by & large we poets are a dour lot. Jack Gilbert has a short poem that goes something like, 'The Greek sailors don't play on the beach and I don't write funny poems'. (But he has frolicked a few times.) Recently there was a special feature in Jacket on humor & poetry that came out various discussions on the HumPo list. http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml Finnegan The total absence of humour from the Bible is one of the most singular things in all literature. ? --Alfred North Whitehead quoted in Price's Dialogues of Alfred North Whitehead -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Burns Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:42 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: One of the?asst.?editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get each year. Finnegan What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty poems?? I have never been able to figure that out. ? I think humor is one of the highest forms of intelligence.? Its a kind of emotional transcendance, an ability to break through the bullshit and defalte it with laughter.??? What could be more valuable in a poem?? A lack of a sense of humor just stinks of cowardice. Someone explain this to me please. Suzanne Burns _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Sep 7 12:26:01 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:26:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c7f16b$cdaf4940$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> And an abyss in the midst of the space circumscribed by an oval. skip Q: What's Alzheimer's? A: A good head start. ---Richard LaPauvre -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:22 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Not to mention the "om." Hal "I think pigs should be allowed to run free--just like politicians." --Edna Buchanan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 7, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Skip Fox wrote: And a coma inside of every comma, see? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:35 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles "Dearth" is a wonderful word. So much in there besides "death" and "earth." There's "heart" and "art" and "heat" and "dear." Oh, "dart" and "ear" as well. And I've probably forgotten some. Hal "Imagination is more important than knowledge." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 6, 2007, at 8:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Tad, I'm afraid dearth is one my words. A word that I like to think has wedded death to earth. Anyway, David Graham knows the whole story. I think he wrote a letter to her (I think her name is Emily, you could check the masthead) citing a number of contemporary poets who were no strangers to the comic. I'm sure she was probably right if the measurement was a random sampling of her slush pile. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles If he uses words like "dearth," no wonder he doesn't get much funny stuff. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheOldMole > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 7:32 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > Anyone have any sense of what literary publications are more likely to > be welcoming to humor, satire, parody or buffoonery in poetic endeavor? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 7 13:12:53 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:12:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] neverending lighght Message-ID: <8C9BF897650D19E-B8C-7DB8@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> http://poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179985 You Call That Poetry?! How seven letters managed to freak out an entire nation. by Ian Daly On a cool autumn evening in 1965, a 22-year-old poet named Aram Saroyan typed seven letters that would amount to one of the most controversial poems in history. Not that he knew it at the time. It was growing late, and a waiting friend (Saroyan can?t remember his name) was getting antsy. He wanted to leave Saroyan?s little apartment on Manhattan?s Upper West Side and head downtown to Le Metro Caf? where Lou Reed and The Fugs and Andy Warhol liked to hang out when they were still freaks, not superstars. But Saroyan held him off. Dead center on the sheet of paper curled in his Royal manual typewriter, he clacked out this single misspelled word: lighght Then they split. More than four decades after they shut the door, people are still talking about this word. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Sep 7 15:31:01 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:31:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] neverending lighght References: <8C9BF897650D19E-B8C-7DB8@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008d01c7f185$9fa2a7d0$fda93452@ANNY> I like the subject of the mail and how is it that they split and they shut the door? Re.: Then they split. More than four decades after they shut the door, people are still talking about this word. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] neverending lighght http://poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179985 You Call That Poetry?! How seven letters managed to freak out an entire nation. by Ian Daly On a cool autumn evening in 1965, a 22-year-old poet named Aram Saroyan typed seven letters that would amount to one of the most controversial poems in history. Not that he knew it at the time. It was growing late, and a waiting friend (Saroyan can?t remember his name) was getting antsy. He wanted to leave Saroyan?s little apartment on Manhattan?s Upper West Side and head downtown to Le Metro Caf? where Lou Reed and The Fugs and Andy Warhol liked to hang out when they were still freaks, not superstars. But Saroyan held him off. Dead center on the sheet of paper curled in his Royal manual typewriter, he clacked out this single misspelled word: lighght Then they split. More than four decades after they shut the door, people are still talking about this word. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 7 16:35:24 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:35:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Ashbery_F=C3=AAte?= Message-ID: <8C9BFA5C0DE6FA6-278-C499@WEBMAIL-MA11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bard.edu/news/releases/pr/fstory.php?id=1285 Bard College Celebrates Poet and Professor John Ashbery's 80th Birthday, September 14-16 Participants Include Charles Bernstein, Peter Gizzi, Robert Kelly, Ann Lauterbach, Bradford Morrow, Jed Perl, Joan Retallack, Reginald Shepherd, Susan Stewart, and Cole Swensen ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Sep 7 18:24:48 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 18:24:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New NEA Program Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pdf Size: 34958 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Sep 8 10:21:55 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:21:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Call for Dr. Giggles: Funny poems by others Message-ID: <46E2B003.5090902@opus40.org> We all know there aren't enough of them. So let's create our own little mini-anthology here. I'll start with a fairly obvious choice, by Stephen Dunn: *John & Mary* /John & Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who also had never met./ ?from a freshman's short story They were like gazelles who occupied different grassy plains, running in opposite directions from different lions. They were like postal clerks in different zip codes, with different vacation time, their bosses adamant and clock-driven. How could they get together? They were like two people who couldn't get together. John was a Sufi with a love of the dervish, Mary of course a Christian with a curfew. They were like two dolphins in the immensity of the Atlantic, one playful, the other stuck in a tuna net? two absolutely different childhoods! There was simply no hope for them. They would never speak in person. When they ran across that windswept field toward each other, they were like two freight trains, one having left Seattle at 6:36 P.M. at an unknown speed, the other delayed in Topeka for repairs. The math indicated that they'd embrace in another world, if at all, like parallel lines. Or merely appear kindred and close, like stars. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Sep 8 11:06:11 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:06:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8C9BF7DDDA3F30A-B8C-7744@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <8C9BF7DDDA3F30A-B8C-7744@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8E0FD07F-8B6A-4990-8146-1A81DAFAE824@ripon.edu> In my little wrangle with the Poetry sub-editor on this issue, I just pointed out what seemed and seems to me quite obvious: we are living in a humor-rich age of poetry. More humor per page than ever before, you bet. From open mics to stand-up poetry and slams to the average MFA-sponsored reading series, it's rare to attend a poetry reading these days that is humor-free. (Well, Jack Gilbert's an exception to this as to many rules.) And many quite prominent poets (Billy Collins, Albert Goldbarth, Bob Hicok, John Ashbery, the late Kenneth Koch, James Tate, Dean Young, David Kirby, Denise Duhamel, Gerald Stern, Barbara Hamby, et al., not to mention a number of NewPo members) seem to specialize in humor. Even a poet like Lucille Clifton, who can be as grim as they come, regularly leavens her books & readings with poems like "Homage to My Hips." Doesn't all this seem obvious to everyone? Apparently not. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 7, 2007, at 10:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Suzanne, there is no aversion. I was saying the editor of Poetry > wanted to see more humorous poems > submitted to poetry...she stated that she wasn't seeing enough of > them. > http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0706/ > David Graham tried to point out to her in a letter, as I recall, > that there were quite few poets who regularly published funny poems. > > But I thnk the Poetry editor was correct...by & large we poets are > a dour lot. Jack Gilbert has a short poem that goes something like, > 'The Greek sailors don't play on the beach and I don't write funny > poems'. (But he has frolicked a few times.) > > Recently there was a special feature in Jacket on humor & poetry > that came out various discussions on the HumPo list. > http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml > > Finnegan > > The total absence of humour from the Bible is one of the most > singular things in all literature. > > --Alfred North Whitehead > quoted in Price's Dialogues of Alfred North Whitehead > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Burns > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:42 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > > On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) > complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty poems? I > have never been able to figure that out. I think humor is one of > the highest forms of intelligence. Its a kind of emotional > transcendance, an ability to break through the bullshit and defalte > it with laughter. What could be more valuable in a poem? A lack > of a sense of humor just stinks of cowardice. > > Someone explain this to me please. > > Suzanne Burns > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Sep 8 13:42:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:42:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ART Message-ID: <002001c7f23f$b15de290$5bad3452@ANNY> Quotes brought to light by Cathy Nelson: Art is that human activity which consists in one human consciously conveying to others, by certain external signs, the feelings he has experienced, and in others being affected by those feelings and also experiencing them. (Leo Tolstoy, What is Art? 1898) Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments. An artist recreates those aspects of reality which represent his fundamental view of man's nature. (Marcel Proust) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sat Sep 8 13:47:47 2007 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:47:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8E0FD07F-8B6A-4990-8146-1A81DAFAE824@ripon.edu> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com> <8C9BF7DDDA3F30A-B8C-7744@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> <8E0FD07F-8B6A-4990-8146-1A81DAFAE824@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <507E0FE0-A3F1-44AA-B196-B55FE0B50295@earthlink.net> I like humor....feel it's often necessary and all that (humorlessness, inability to laugh at oneself, is often a criteria for me when deciding which poet I can or cannot read) but i've given up on trying to argue about it for the most part-- some poets I find humorless others don't, etc...--. I'll defend humor against the serious snobs who look at you weird when you laugh at a "serious" poetry reading or Shakespeare play... Chris On Sep 8, 2007, at 8:06 AM, David Graham wrote: > In my little wrangle with the Poetry sub-editor on this issue, I > just pointed out what seemed and seems to me quite obvious: we are > living in a humor-rich age of poetry. More humor per page than > ever before, you bet. From open mics to stand-up poetry and slams > to the average MFA-sponsored reading series, it's rare to attend a > poetry reading these days that is humor-free. (Well, Jack > Gilbert's an exception to this as to many rules.) And many quite > prominent poets (Billy Collins, Albert Goldbarth, Bob Hicok, John > Ashbery, the late Kenneth Koch, James Tate, Dean Young, David > Kirby, Denise Duhamel, Gerald Stern, Barbara Hamby, et al., not to > mention a number of NewPo members) seem to specialize in humor. > Even a poet like Lucille Clifton, who can be as grim as they come, > regularly leavens her books & readings with poems like "Homage to > My Hips." > > Doesn't all this seem obvious to everyone? Apparently not. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Sep 7, 2007, at 10:49 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> Suzanne, there is no aversion. I was saying the editor of Poetry >> wanted to see more humorous poems >> submitted to poetry...she stated that she wasn't seeing enough of >> them. >> http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0706/ >> David Graham tried to point out to her in a letter, as I recall, >> that there were quite few poets who regularly published funny poems. >> >> But I thnk the Poetry editor was correct...by & large we poets are >> a dour lot. Jack Gilbert has a short poem that goes something >> like, 'The Greek sailors don't play on the beach and I don't write >> funny poems'. (But he has frolicked a few times.) >> >> Recently there was a special feature in Jacket on humor & poetry >> that came out various discussions on the HumPo list. >> http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml >> >> Finnegan >> >> The total absence of humour from the Bible is one of the most >> singular things in all literature. >> >> --Alfred North Whitehead >> quoted in Price's Dialogues of Alfred North Whitehead >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suzanne Burns >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:42 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles >> >> >> >> On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) >> complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many >> submissions they get each year. >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty poems? I >> have never been able to figure that out. I think humor is one of >> the highest forms of intelligence. Its a kind of emotional >> transcendance, an ability to break through the bullshit and >> defalte it with laughter. What could be more valuable in a >> poem? A lack of a sense of humor just stinks of cowardice. >> >> Someone explain this to me please. >> >> Suzanne Burns >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 8 13:55:41 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 13:55:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Call for Dr. Giggles: Funny poems by others Message-ID: I'll play. I like the absurdist comedy James Tate employs. There is always a bit of the pathetic and troubled underlying his fanciful vignettes... Teaching the Ape to Write Poems They didn?t have much trouble teaching the ape to write poems: first they strapped him into the chair, then tied the pencil around his hand (the paper had already been nailed down). Then Dr. Bluespire leaned over his shoulder and whispered into his ear: ?You look like a god sitting there. Why don?t you try writing something?? --James Tate, Absences -- ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 8 15:07:13 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 14:07:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ART In-Reply-To: <002001c7f23f$b15de290$5bad3452@ANNY> References: <002001c7f23f$b15de290$5bad3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E2F2E1.7090609@nut-n-but.net> I'm not surprised that a philistine like Tolstoy provides so poor a definition, but am slightly dismayed that the other journalist, who was not a philistine, does even worse. --Bob G. (who understands that art's primary purpose is to give others pleasure) Anny Ballardini wrote: > Quotes brought to light by Cathy Nelson: > > > */Art is that human activity which consists in one human consciously > conveying to others, by certain external signs, the feelings he has > experienced, and in others being affected by those feelings and also > experiencing them. (Leo Tolstoy, What is Art? 1898)/* > > > > */Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist's > metaphysical value-judgments. An artist recreates those aspects of > reality which represent his fundamental view of man's nature. > /**/(Marcel Proust) /* > > *//* > > */ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > /* > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 8 16:28:43 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:28:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Calling Dr. Giggles In-Reply-To: <8E0FD07F-8B6A-4990-8146-1A81DAFAE824@ripon.edu> References: <46E08E1A.1060604@opus40.org> <8C9BEFA6264C4D7-FE4-A733@MBLK-M28.sysops.aol.com><8C9BF7DDDA3F30A- B8C-7744@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> <8E0FD07F-8B6A-4990-8146-1A81DAFAE824@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46E305FB.5030003@nut-n-but.net> David Graham wrote: > In my little wrangle with the Poetry sub-editor on this issue, I just > pointed out what seemed and seems to me quite obvious: we are living > in a humor-rich age of poetry. More humor per page than ever before, > you bet. From open mics to stand-up poetry and slams to the average > MFA-sponsored reading series, it's rare to attend a poetry reading > these days that is humor-free. (Well, Jack Gilbert's an exception to > this as to many rules.) And many quite prominent poets (Billy > Collins, Albert Goldbarth, Bob Hicok, John Ashbery, the late Kenneth > Koch, James Tate, Dean Young, David Kirby, Denise Duhamel, Gerald > Stern, Barbara Hamby, et al., not to mention a number of NewPo > members) seem to specialize in humor. Even a poet like Lucille > Clifton, who can be as grim as they come, regularly leavens her books > & readings with poems like "Homage to My Hips." > > Doesn't all this seem obvious to everyone? Apparently not. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > One thing that makes this question tricky to answer is that there are so many poets writing that it's easy to find handfuls doing humor or anything else. I tend to think there are very few humorous poets by percentage than there were in the days of the Saturday Evening Post. Who is our Richard Armour or Ogden Nash? I subscribe to LIGHT, which I believe is the only American periodical devoted to light verse, and it seems barely making it. Sure, most poets have done a few comic poems, but my impression if that poetry in general does other things. Like amusement at the human condition. Or satire that's too serious to laugh at. A lot of what I call infraverbal poetry will make those who like that kind of thing chuckle at the vagaries of language, but most of them also expand to something deeper--like Joyce's "cropse.' Of course, I'm only thinking of serious poetry. A lot of slam poems are really jokes, but I don't consider them serious poems. Which makes me think about canonical poets. Which of them did comic turns? Byron. Chaucer told stories that had funny moments. Some of Shakespeare's sonnets are jokes. Interesting subject that I confess to be muddled about. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 8 15:32:57 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 15:32:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Longley new professor of poetry Message-ID: _http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6982117.stm_ (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6982117.stm) Last Updated: Friday, 7 September 2007, 05:52 GMT 06:52 UK Longley new professor of poetry Michael Longley is the 4th person to hold the post Belfast poet Michael Longley has been appointed the new Professor of Poetry for Ireland. The writer, who was born in 1939, is the fourth person to hold the post. The announcement was made by Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, who described Dr Longley as "one of the most talented poets of our time". ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 9 04:34:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:34:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Call for Dr. Giggles: Funny poems by others References: Message-ID: <003301c7f2bc$499e8f10$12a83452@ANNY> and here's affreshshs one One of mine lemme know thanks ASSIGNMENT here is Bill Lavender?s assignment: I thought it might be enlightening in this unit to comment on what we've read so far in the style of Aphra Behn, or indeed on Aphra Behn in the style of Aphra Behn.... and here is my answer: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_iqK1gEOUsk Pleased to meet you hope you?ll guess who I am quite difficult to follow me as a matter of fact stuck as I am into postmodernist existentialist dichotomies that start from structural meta- and metem- physicality/psychosis, hermeneutical escatological mishaps (where?s the text, where?s the word, the thing signed by the signified signifying the signifier of the sign, that?s not the word, it?s the logos lagooning) swamp the Ontological place onto or under cups books ashtrays bursting boxes lighters coffee cups with choleocters drowning inside + their last singing, and lines of ethereanal weight hanging on a by now yellowish-brownish-greyish wall all ish-ish-ish round here ?ah yes the everythink-knowleadeable ledy at the store said: ?halogen lights with white walls bring out the light of the light? yeap yeap I said, good for you, see you soon, put set reader, put set on the couch I?ve got plenty to go through and just forget about those playes and tragedies (read one you?ve read them all ? the son kills the mother, the mother kills the son, the daughter kills the mother or viceversa, the farth father kills one or the other; comedies even worst : he loves her she loves him who is another he so that he, the first one, loves another her, not the she, but then the she loves him and so on till your jaws ache and your eyes are so watery that a fish could easily loose its way out or in, whichever you prefer, the much you have been yawning _not to talk of the fridge emptied of the one-week shopping in one setting) and come and get some Pottery, yes the one with pOms pestering your brain till the day after when you get up from a sleepless night and bang _big bang _black howling wholes _wolves wringling wrouming wroof when you remember it was the pOm you indigested the previous night without an original sparkling alka seltzer or Colgate to make your smile so shiningly Shine in the labyrinth lemme see yes artist?s statement the overall graduation of the modular tones aims at the implicit aggrandizement, a tacit implosion of subliminal technocratic tactical retouchements of the prairie; in the present even ending levitating sublimity of absolute vodka with concert (only beer for me no liver left not to talk of lungs that?s why I write _just stay set, reader, stay set, you can stretch out your f**ing legs on that rotten couch and scratch that shoulder I can see from here the microorganic multicoloured/cultural distinctly British fauna fighting its last baritone beeps) addressed to the volcalic if not chloralic apopletically apocalypsic synchromatic aulism of a soloist by mirroring pools with patches of skies penguins with ducks platos with portias and el plato del dia aristotles and augustines augustus angust august mnemonic semantics of a being exchanged for a triing hovering from the roof vocatives erupting from down the sink pink _think pink heading for a fatal _drums_ _drums again_ _again drums again_ Katakakreisis yours forever not responsible for topo- & timeOlogical reasons (as halvard Johnson loves to say or similar) say Ohm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Sun Sep 9 10:51:45 2007 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:51:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Piombino Interview Message-ID: <200709091451.l89Epj5f004802@mail21.atl.registeredsite.com> Greetings. Please come read: Nick Piombino interviewed by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Piombino%20interview.htm The Argotist Online is edited by Jeffrey Side. Posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 9 12:29:48 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:29:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Euripides on the Corner Message-ID: <002901c7f2fe$a3df3dc0$12ac3452@ANNY> >From Jon Corelis: Dear Friends: This email is to announce the completion and availability of my new performance version in English of Euripides' Hippolytos. This version is innovative in a number of ways. Unlike most modern versions of Greek plays, which tend to be either fairly literal reading versions done by scholars or more creative performance versions done by poets or playwrights, this is a version in verse created for performance, by someone who is thoroughly familiar with the original as a properly credentialed classicist, but who is also an internationally published poet. (My web site, listed at the end of this email, gives a summary of this background.) My script's relation to Euripides' Greek text ranges from almost word for word translation in some parts to very free recasting in others, and it employs various levels of diction, some of which satisfy and others of which deliberately thwart a modern audience's expectations of how people in a Greek tragedy should talk. Another innovation, which I believe is original with this version, is that the choruses are in verse to be set to music taken from medieval secular songs. The current script only gives the names of these songs (since I can't write musical notation myself), but these melodies are all standard parts of the early music repertory and are available on CD, as computerized files on the internet, or in scores in scholarly music works or from specialist publishers. I can refer prospective performers to these sources; eventually as a result of working with a performance group I hope to find someone who will be able to write musical annotation which I can include with my text. I'd be glad to hear from any drama group, whether professional, semi-professional, amateur, or academic, who would like to perform this new version. (I'd only expect royalties if it were produced by a troupe in a position to pay them; I'd willingly give permission gratis for performance by an amateur or academic group that didn't charge admission or charged it only to cover expenses.) Interested parties can contact me by any of the means indicated in the signature below. The script is being housed on the internet on the Italian cultural web site Fieralingue, which may most easily be accessed with the URL: http://tinyurl.com/3cqhxk (click on the Euripides' Hippolytos link for the .pdf file). There's also a link to it on my web site. Alternatively, I'd be glad to send the script to interested persons via email as a .pdf or as a MS-WORD .doc file, or via post in hard copy or on a data CD. I'd be most grateful if you'd forward this email to anyone you think might be interested in it. Thanks for reading this. Yours truly, Jon Corelis =================================== Jon Corelis 517 S. State St. Appleton WI 54911 USA tel 920-277-7101 jonc at stanfordalumni.org www.geocities.com/joncpoetics -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 9 12:35:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:35:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Joel Weishaus Message-ID: <003001c7f2ff$7836ad60$12ac3452@ANNY> and I have an acknowledgment on Joel's site! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is #25 of 25 texts. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/North-5/text-5.htm It's been almost two years since I began "The Way North." I want to thank all of you for receiving, and even maybe taking time to consider, this work. For those of you who want to look at it at your leisure from the beginning: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/Intro.htm Notes: Designed for screen resolution: 1024x768; Text size: Medium; Monitor: 17" or larger; Browser: MS Explorer preferred. (Checked for Foxfire, but a few design changes are usually found.) Paratext boxes are opened by holding cursor over words. Speakers on. -Joel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 9 14:17:46 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 14:17:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Split This Rock Poetry Festival: Poems of Provocation & Witness Message-ID: Split This Rock Poetry Festival: Poems of Provocation & Witness March 20-23, 2008, Washington, DC Split This Rock Poetry Festival will bring poets and writers to Washington DC on the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, in the midst of the presidential election. The festival will feature readings, workshops, panel discussions, youth programming, film, activism, and walking tours - opportunities to build community, hone our activist skills, and celebrate the many ways that poetry can act as an agent for social change. To read more about the festival, see our website at: www.SplitThisRock.org. In addition to featured readings by guest poets, Split this Rock invites proposals for panel discussions and workshops on a range of topics at the intersection of poetry and social change. Possibilities are endless. Challenge us. Let's talk about craft, let's talk about mentoring young poets, let's talk about working in prisons, connecting with the activist community, sustaining ourselves in dark times, the role of poetry in wartime. Let's remember great poet activists and discover new, let's think international, visual, collaborative, out of the box. A panel may consist of 3-4 persons, with one person designated as facilitator. Please title your panel and include brief biographical information for each participant, along with a two paragraph description of your panel?what are the questions you wish to explore?why is this conversation timely and necessary at this time?how will this panel further the goals of Split This Rock? How are the members of your panel uniquely qualified to lead a conversation on your proposed topic? We have a strong interest in interactive conversation and community building, so please indicate how you will involve participants in the discussion. Please note that panel presenters must register for Split This Rock Poetry Festival. Some scholarships will be available. There is no limit to the number of proposals you may send, but please be sure that all proposed presenters have agreed to be part of your proposed panel. Also, we are a small, mostly volunteer group, so please send only your favorite ideas. Send proposals in the body of an email to: info at splitthisrock.org by December 1, 2007. Please include full contact information for yourself and all proposed panel presenters. Please use the attached form. Just copy the questions into an email and paste your answers in. Please be sure to save a copy of your proposal, as emails do sometimes go astray. We will acknowledge receipt of your proposal, with a timeline for hearing back. Questions? Email us at info at splitthisrock.org. We look forward to reading your proposal! Split This Rock Poetry Festival PANEL DISCUSSION PROPOSAL FORM PANEL TITLE: Convener/Facilitator Name: Mailing Address: Email Address: Phone: Participant Name: Mailing Address: Email Address: Phone: Participant Name: Mailing Address: Email Address: Phone: Participant Name: Mailing Address: Email Address: Phone: 1. Please include a one paragraph bio for each participant. 2. Please describe in 250 words or less the purpose of your panel. 3. Describe your method for involving festival participants in the panel. ** Support Split This Rock ? click here to make a secure tax-deductible donation. Be sure to designate Split This Rock as the recipient of your gift. Many thanks! ** Sarah Browning Coordinator Split This Rock Poetry Festival c/o Institute for Policy Studies 1112 16th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 browning at splitthisrock.org www.splitthisrock.org http://sarahbrowning.blogspot.com/ 202-787-5210 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Sep 9 15:10:51 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 15:10:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Last Call for Dr. Giggles: Funny poems by others In-Reply-To: <003301c7f2bc$499e8f10$12a83452@ANNY> References: <003301c7f2bc$499e8f10$12a83452@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E4453B.8090504@opus40.org> Billy Collins, at a reading I attended, described how for a while he was into found haiku -- things people said in conversation that added up to 17 syllables, and had a certain pithy coherence. His best one, he said, was a student leaving one his classes, who uttered what Collins described as the perfect teenage haiku: When I told him he was like Oh My God and I was ike Oh My God Anny Ballardini wrote: > and here's affreshshs one One of mine lemme know thanks > > > ASSIGNMENT > > > > here is Bill Lavender?s assignment: > > > > I thought it might be enlightening in this unit to comment on what > we've read so far in the style of Aphra Behn, or indeed on Aphra Behn > in the style of Aphra Behn.... > > > > and here is my answer: > > > > > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=_iqK1gEOUsk > > > > Pleased to meet you hope you?ll guess who I am > > > > quite difficult to follow me as a matter of fact stuck as I am into > postmodernist existentialist dichotomies that start from structural > meta- and metem- physicality/psychosis, hermeneutical escatological > mishaps (where?s the text, where?s the word, the thing signed by the > signified signifying the signifier of the sign, that?s not the word, > it?s the logos lagooning) swamp the Ontological place onto or under > cups books ashtrays bursting boxes lighters coffee cups with > choleocters drowning inside + their last singing, and lines of > ethereanal weight hanging on a by now yellowish-brownish-greyish wall > all ish-ish-ish round here ?ah yes the everythink-knowleadeable ledy > at the store said: ?halogen lights with white walls bring out the > light of the light? yeap yeap I said, good for you, see you soon, > > put set reader, put set on the couch > > I?ve got plenty to go through and just forget about those playes and > tragedies (read one you?ve read them all ? the son kills the mother, > the mother kills the son, the daughter kills the mother or viceversa, > the farth father kills one or the other; comedies even worst : he > loves her she loves him who is another he so that he, the first one, > loves another her, not the she, but then the she loves him and so on > till your jaws ache and your eyes are so watery that a fish could > easily loose its way out or in, whichever you prefer, the much you > have been yawning _not to talk of the fridge emptied of the one-week > shopping in one setting) and come and get some Pottery, yes the one > with pOms pestering your brain till the day after when you get up from > a sleepless night and bang _big bang _black howling wholes _wolves > wringling wrouming wroof > > when you remember it was the pOm you indigested the previous night > without an original sparkling alka seltzer or Colgate to make your > smile so shiningly Shine in the labyrinth > > lemme see > > yes > > > > artist?s statement > > > > the overall graduation of the modular tones aims at the implicit > aggrandizement, a tacit implosion of subliminal technocratic tactical > /retouchements/ of the prairie; in the present even ending levitating > sublimity of absolute vodka with concert (only beer for me no liver > left not to talk of lungs that?s why I write _just stay set, reader, > stay set, you can stretch out your f**ing legs on that rotten couch > and scratch that shoulder I can see from here the microorganic > multicoloured/cultural distinctly British fauna fighting its last > baritone beeps) > > addressed to the volcalic if not chloralic apopletically apocalypsic > synchromatic aulism of a soloist > > by mirroring pools with patches of skies > > penguins with ducks platos with portias and /el plato del dia / > > aristotles and augustines augustus angust august > > mnemonic semantics of a being exchanged for a triing hovering from the > roof > > vocatives erupting from down the sink > > pink _think pink > > heading for a fatal _drums_ _drums again_ _again drums again_ > Katakakreisis > > > > > > yours forever > > not responsible for topo- & timeOlogical reasons > > (as halvard Johnson loves to say or similar) > > say Ohm > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 9 17:13:58 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:13:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Webpage for my Book, From Haiku to Lyriku In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46E46216.50005@nut-n-but.net> I finally put one together: it's at http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html. AND: I can now take credit card orders. I have a friend who owns a bookstore, so if you send me your credit card data, she will process it. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Sep 9 16:28:43 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:28:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Webpage for my Book, From Haiku to Lyriku In-Reply-To: <46E46216.50005@nut-n-but.net> References: <46E46216.50005@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46E4577B.80306@opus40.org> I'm in it? I guess I will have to buy a copy (was planning to anyway). Bob Grumman wrote: > I finally put one together: it's at > http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html. > > AND: I can now take credit card orders. I have a friend who owns a > bookstore, so if you send me your credit card data, she will process it. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 9 20:13:06 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:13:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Webpage for my Book, From Haiku to Lyriku In-Reply-To: <46E4577B.80306@opus40.org> References: <46E46216.50005@nut-n-but.net> <46E4577B.80306@opus40.org> Message-ID: <46E48C12.4010200@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I'm in it? I guess I will have to buy a copy (was planning to anyway). Thanks in advance, Mole. I'd be surprised if anyone interested in poetry got nothing out of it--almost as surprised as I'd be if anyone agreed with more of half my pronouncements in it. I'm using your hay(na)ku. (I mentioned that I was in an earlier post to give you a chance to protest if you wanted to!) Which reminds me that the book does cover comic poetry--not at much length, but decently, I think. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 9 20:19:05 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:19:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Webpage (without period) for my Book, From Haiku to Lyriku In-Reply-To: <46E4577B.80306@opus40.org> References: <46E46216.50005@nut-n-but.net> <46E4577B.80306@opus40.org> Message-ID: <46E48D79.3070906@nut-n-but.net> I finally put one together: it's at http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html Poets from whom I've stolen haiku and related poems for inclusion in my book are in an index there. AND: I can now take credit card orders. I have a friend who owns a bookstore, so if you send me your credit card data, she will process it. My last problem: getting padded envelopes to mail the books out in. Forgot about them till just yesterday. So shipment of books already ordered will be a little delayed. (I'm supposed to get a box of padded envelopes on Tuesday from Staples.) --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 9 21:03:43 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:03:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] C.K. Williams Taught Me I Was Not A Poet Message-ID: _http://www.courant.com/features/booksmags/hc-williams0909.artsep09,0,4376251. story_ (http://www.courant.com/features/booksmags/hc-williams0909.artsep09,0,4376251.story) C.K. Williams Taught Me I Was Not A Poet By STEVE ALMOND | Special to The Courant September 9, 2007 This essay about C.K. Williams' 1987 poetry collection, "Flesh & Blood," also appears on the blog Critical Mass, posted today by the National Book Critics Circle. It is part of a series in which authors recall works by past finalists and winners of NBCC book awards, given annually since 1974. The website is _http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com_ (http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com) . At 30, I arrived in Boston, fresh from a disastrous overseas love affair, lonely, aggrieved and, worse yet, convinced I was a poet. This made no sense. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 09:45:34 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:45:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Book title du jour (& review) Message-ID: NYT September 10, 2007 BOOKS OF THE TIMES Burn Down a Poet?s House, and the Mail Just Pours In By JANET MASLIN AN ARSONIST'S GUIDE TO WRITERS' HOMES IN NEW ENGLAND By Brock Clarke. 303 pp. Algonquin Books of Chapel Hill. $23.95. The narrator of ?An Arsonist?s Guide to Writers? Homes in New England? is an accidental firebug ?with blood and soot on his hands.? He committed the unspeakable crime of burning down Emily Dickinson?s house. Thus he threw Amherst, Mass., into turmoil, not only because he violated the legacy of the college town?s cherished literary Belle but also because he killed ?two of its loafered citizens? in the process. His name, Sam Pulsifer, is redolent of both pusillanimousness and Lucifer. But the actual Sam is too mousy and na?ve for either. He would have fared better in life had he been less dimwitted, ?like a child, only bigger? in the opinion of one of his smarter acquaintances. But he wouldn?t have been as wildly, unpredictably funny. And the hilarity of Sam?s narrative voice is fine compensation for its apparent idiocy. ?An Arsonist?s Guide to Writers? Homes in New England? is as cheerfully oddball as its title. Its cover art includes a tiny cartoon sketch of a green-frocked literary lioness garlanded in flames, and that captures the irreverence of the author, Brock Clarke?s, enterprise. Although it is his fourth book, it feels like the bright debut of an ingeniously arch humorist, one whose hallmark is a calm approach to insanely improbable behavior. ?I could think of no bigger betrayal than a wife?s changing the locks on her husband,? thinks an aggrieved Sam, ?just as long as I didn?t think about my burning and killing and then lying about it.? Mr. Clarke?s premise gives him an immediate problem to solve. If Sam really torched a treasured landmark and killed people, then served 10 years in prison by the time this story begins, what kind of monster is he? In order to treat this character as a lovable marshmallow, as well as an occasionally inspired literary satirist, Mr. Clarke must figure out how to sustain this novel?s sunny atmosphere without having to justify heinous violence. So it gradually develops that Sam didn?t exactly mean to incinerate anything or hurt anyone. It happened to him as accidentally as everything else in his life occurs, amid the cloud of bewilderment that follows him everywhere. Sam never meant to become a serial arsonist. It?s just that the Dickinson fire brought forth a barrage of strange correspondence. Sam predictably prompted the rage of scholars, even if their fury failed to impress him. ?There is something underwhelming,? he writes, ? about scholarly hate mail ? the sad literary allusions, the refusal to use contractions ? so I didn?t pay much attention to those letters at all.? But Sam also got dozens of letters from angry lunatics requesting that he burn down more writers? homes. Here too Mr. Clarke must be careful. His book?s craziness must stay jokey. It gets no crazier than the man who wants Ralph Waldo Emerson?s house destroyed to avenge his parents? naming him Waldo. So Sam has no plans to fulfill his fans? requests. He prefers a safer course. After prison he went to college to major in packaging science, which comes in handy whenever he wants to use a Ziploc bag or a mayonnaise jar as a metaphor during this narrative. He met a woman named Anne Marie. He invited her to have dinner. (? ?With you?? she asked.?) Then he married her and took up the life of a suburban father. As the book begins, he lives on Hyannisport Drive in a subdivision called Camelot, a place so quiet on weekdays that ?you couldn?t clip your toenails on your front porch without fear of bothering someone with the noise.? Sam accurately surmises that despite Camelot?s proximity to Amherst, the two are worlds apart, and nobody cares about Emily Dickinson in a place like this. Soon Mr. Clarke has indulged his slightly condescending screwball tendencies to the point where this comic novel is in overdrive. Sam has an angry stalker, the son of the loafered couple who perished in the Dickinson fire. Sam becomes a suspect when other New England writers? homes begin to burn. And he is dogged by the overweening ambition of his prison buddies, a bunch of bond analysts eager to write best-selling memoirs even though they don?t have anything interesting to remember. When this leads Sam to open his wide, dewy eyes to the present-day literary world, he finds that the memoir is ?like the Soviet Union of literature, having mostly gobbled up the smaller, obsolete states of fiction and poetry.? He finds this truly baffling: ?Who knew that there were so many people with so many necessary things to say about themselves?? He wonders how a newspaper reporter from upstate New York can begin a book with the line ?I was working as a newspaper reporter in upstate New York.? Even as Sam begins collecting insights for a book of his own, the ?Arsonist?s Guide? of Mr. Clarke?s title, he runs headlong into practitioners of other literary genres. The parodies here are priceless, particularly the grim, depressive, snowbound story of a lonely and miserable man, one that instantly brings to mind Russell Banks?s ?Affliction.? Mr. Clarke sets this part of the book in bleakest New Hampshire, so that Sam can feel sorry for the houses for ?having to be compared to the white snow and failing so completely.? This frozen setting also allows him to express a long-smoldering schoolboy hatred of Edith Wharton?s ?Ethan Frome.? Eventually overplotted to the point of overkill, ?An Arsonist?s Guide to Writers? Homes in New England? (Miriam Levine?s real guidebook has the same title, absent the arson) still manages to remain sharp-edged and unpredictable, punctuated by moments of choice absurdist humor. At the home of Edward Bellamy, the author of ?Looking Backward,? Sam notes: ?It was very, very pretty. You wouldn?t have noticed anything was wrong with it except that it was ringed by yellow police tape, and there were some faint black singe marks near the foundation.? Jay Billington Bulworth for President Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 10 10:22:50 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:22:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles (& an unfunny poem) In-Reply-To: <8C9BF7DDDA3F30A-B8C-7744@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002801c7f3b6$1270faa0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Finnegan, thanks for that link (below) to The Dangerfield Conundrum, our roundtable on humor and poetry at Jacket. It's at least a start, and of course (hello Sam Gwynn!) an incomplete and imperfect one, on an even larger, more boisterous discussion. And if you're so inclined, have a look at Edward Byrne's blog One Poet's Notes: he links to my not-very-funny poem "Reconstructed Face," which is poem of the week at the Valparaiso Poetry Review for one more day: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/lodenreconstructed.html Rachel Loden ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 8:50 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles Suzanne, there is no aversion. I was saying the editor of Poetry wanted to see more humorous poems submitted to poetry...she stated that she wasn't seeing enough of them. http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0706/ David Graham tried to point out to her in a letter, as I recall, that there were quite few poets who regularly published funny poems. But I thnk the Poetry editor was correct...by & large we poets are a dour lot. Jack Gilbert has a short poem that goes something like, 'The Greek sailors don't play on the beach and I don't write funny poems'. (But he has frolicked a few times.) Recently there was a special feature in Jacket on humor & poetry that came out various discussions on the HumPo list. http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml Finnegan The total absence of humour from the Bible is one of the most singular things in all literature. --Alfred North Whitehead quoted in Price's Dialogues of Alfred North Whitehead -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Burns Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:42 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many submissions they get each year. Finnegan What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty poems? I have never been able to figure that out. I think humor is one of the highest forms of intelligence. Its a kind of emotional transcendance, an ability to break through the bullshit and defalte it with laughter. What could be more valuable in a poem? A lack of a sense of humor just stinks of cowardice. Someone explain this to me please. Suzanne Burns _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 10 10:28:47 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:28:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles (& an unfunny poem) In-Reply-To: <002801c7f3b6$1270faa0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <002901c7f3b6$e72ef440$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Oops. The link I meant to send is here: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/2007/09/rachel-loden-reconstructed-face.html > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rachel Loden > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:23 AM > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles (& an unfunny poem) > > Finnegan, thanks for that link (below) to The Dangerfield > Conundrum, our > roundtable on humor and poetry at Jacket. It's at least a > start, and of > course (hello Sam Gwynn!) an incomplete and imperfect one, on an even > larger, more boisterous discussion. > > And if you're so inclined, have a look at Edward Byrne's blog > One Poet's > Notes: he links to my not-very-funny poem "Reconstructed > Face," which is > poem of the week at the Valparaiso Poetry Review for one more day: > > http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/lodenreconstructed.html > > Rachel Loden > > ________________________________ > > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 8:50 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > Suzanne, there is no aversion. I was saying the editor of Poetry > wanted to see more humorous poems > submitted to poetry...she stated that she wasn't seeing > enough of > them. > http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0706/ > David Graham tried to point out to her in a letter, as I recall, > that there were quite few poets who regularly published funny poems. > > But I thnk the Poetry editor was correct...by & large > we poets are a > dour lot. Jack Gilbert has a short poem that goes something > like, 'The Greek > sailors don't play on the beach and I don't write funny > poems'. (But he has > frolicked a few times.) > > Recently there was a special feature in Jacket on humor & poetry > that came out various discussions on the HumPo list. > http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml > > Finnegan > > The total absence of humour from the Bible is one of the most > singular things in all literature. > > --Alfred North Whitehead > quoted in Price's Dialogues of Alfred North Whitehead > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Burns > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:42 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > > > On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor > issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > > What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty > poems? I have > never been able to figure that out. I think humor is one of > the highest > forms of intelligence. Its a kind of emotional > transcendance, an ability to > break through the bullshit and defalte it with laughter. > What could be > more valuable in a poem? A lack of a sense of humor just stinks of > cowardice. > > Someone explain this to me please. > > Suzanne Burns > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out > free AOL Mail > dex.htm?ncid=A > OLAOF00020000000970> ! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Sep 10 10:32:20 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:32:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7f3b7$6b051b50$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> "Isaac Walton's English sounding like the small bell of the knife grinder" Carl Rakozi From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Sep 10 10:35:54 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:35:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour In-Reply-To: <000001c7f3b7$6b051b50$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <000101c7f3b7$eaa4c4a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Second quote du jour: "Actually, you can catch more flies with a corpse." Richard LaPauvre -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 9:32 AM To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour "Isaac Walton's English sounding like the small bell of the knife grinder" Carl Rakozi _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Sep 10 11:29:42 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:29:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles (& an unfunny poem) In-Reply-To: <002801c7f3b6$1270faa0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <002801c7f3b6$1270faa0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <46E562E6.50801@opus40.org> Rachel -- I love it. Tad Rachel Loden wrote: > Finnegan, thanks for that link (below) to The Dangerfield Conundrum, our > roundtable on humor and poetry at Jacket. It's at least a start, and of > course (hello Sam Gwynn!) an incomplete and imperfect one, on an even > larger, more boisterous discussion. > > And if you're so inclined, have a look at Edward Byrne's blog One Poet's > Notes: he links to my not-very-funny poem "Reconstructed Face," which is > poem of the week at the Valparaiso Poetry Review for one more day: > > http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/lodenreconstructed.html > > Rachel Loden > > ________________________________ > > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 8:50 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > Suzanne, there is no aversion. I was saying the editor of Poetry > wanted to see more humorous poems > submitted to poetry...she stated that she wasn't seeing enough of > them. > http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0706/ > David Graham tried to point out to her in a letter, as I recall, > that there were quite few poets who regularly published funny poems. > > But I thnk the Poetry editor was correct...by & large we poets are a > dour lot. Jack Gilbert has a short poem that goes something like, 'The Greek > sailors don't play on the beach and I don't write funny poems'. (But he has > frolicked a few times.) > > Recently there was a special feature in Jacket on humor & poetry > that came out various discussions on the HumPo list. > http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml > > Finnegan > > The total absence of humour from the Bible is one of the most > singular things in all literature. > > --Alfred North Whitehead > quoted in Price's Dialogues of Alfred North Whitehead > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne Burns > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 9:42 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Calling Dr. Giggles > > > > > On 9/6/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > One of the asst. editors of Poetry (in the special Humor > issue) complained that there was dearth of comic poetry among the many > submissions they get each year. > > Finnegan > > > > What is this big aversion people have to funny, witty poems? I have > never been able to figure that out. I think humor is one of the highest > forms of intelligence. Its a kind of emotional transcendance, an ability to > break through the bullshit and defalte it with laughter. What could be > more valuable in a poem? A lack of a sense of humor just stinks of > cowardice. > > Someone explain this to me please. > > Suzanne Burns > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ________________________________ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > OLAOF00020000000970> ! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 10 11:40:15 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:40:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Podcast Po Message-ID: <8C9C1D804C8364E-628-7E7@mblk-r37.sysops.aol.com> http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/20070909_Podcast_options_aplenty_for_poetry.html Podcast options aplenty for poetry Type the word poetry into a podcast directory search and you'll get about 140 results, often more. Some poetry podcasts are based at institutions and have money behind them, such as Poetry Off the Shelf, which is produced by the Poetry Foundation, the publisher of Poetry magazine. Likewise, Jim Lehrer of the PBS program NewsHour hosts a poetry series that features readings and interviews with nationally known poets. But individuals with an interest in poetry have found the medium accessible enough for them to make programs, too. From bedrooms and laptops around the world people are recording podcasts, registering them with directories such as iTunes, promoting them, and garnering a listenership - all for very little money. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reneea at verizon.net Mon Sep 10 18:41:36 2007 From: reneea at verizon.net (Renee Ashley) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:41:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] C.K. Williams Taught Me I Was Not A Poet References: Message-ID: <000f01c7f3fb$bf240c20$da66fea9@Barnette> ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 8:03 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] C.K. Williams Taught Me I Was Not A Poet http://www.courant.com/features/booksmags/hc-williams0909.artsep09,0,4376251.story C.K. Williams Taught Me I Was Not A Poet By STEVE ALMOND | Special to The Courant September 9, 2007 This essay about C.K. Williams' 1987 poetry collection, "Flesh & Blood," also appears on the blog Critical Mass, posted today by the National Book Critics Circle. It is part of a series in which authors recall works by past finalists and winners of NBCC book awards, given annually since 1974. The website is http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com. At 30, I arrived in Boston, fresh from a disastrous overseas love affair, lonely, aggrieved and, worse yet, convinced I was a poet. This made no sense. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 11 08:00:03 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:00:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] recently on wordstrumpet Message-ID: <004701c7f46b$4a188f30$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> If you're so inclined: these and other posts . . . (apologies for cross & even grumpy postings) http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ * Ange Mlinko, _The Children's Museum_ * _The Code of the Woosters_ (shower-reading and other oddities) * The Young and the Restless (obsessions of the tiny male) * A Walk with Nathaniel Hawthorne (my great grandmother's sister, Rebecca Harding Davis: her encounters with Hawthorne and others) * Like a Radio in the Dark (the mysterious Mr. Bowering) * Poets, Unbearable and Otherwise (your friends and mine) * Something More Substantial Than Fame (the view from Henry David Thoreau's attic) * Three Parodies of Ingmar Bergman * Comedy, Cruelty, and Control (and the connections between them) * Lady Sovereign (is a blog a sort of castle with its lord, its gentleman-soldiers, its mounted men-at-arms and its vassals?) * The Price of the Ticket (my quarrels with the blogosphere) * The Shock of the Necessary (Bill Knott and Linh Dinh) * Prisoners of Love: Poetry and the Stockholm Syndrome (a few thoughts on Bill Knott) * Your Mind Is On Vacation and Your Mouth Is Working Overtime * And Now For Something Completely Different (a poem) * Survival of the Fittest Groceries (what gets play, what doesn't) * The Baffling Mr. Abramson * Why Is American Poetry Culturally Deprived? (Kenneth Rexroth) * Either the Audience Wins or You Do: Harold Pinter, Audience Pleasure, and Other Musings * Borat and Bromige: Further Adventures (what do they have in common?) -- Rachel Loden http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 11 13:51:40 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:51:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath play, sans her poetry Message-ID: <8C9C2B38AA88C3C-CF0-9736@webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nypost.com/seven/09112007/entertainment/theater/quite_a_touch_of_the_poet.htm QUITE A TOUCH OF THE POET By FRANK SCHECK ?Rating: September 11, 2007 -- FEW performers inhabit their characters with the intensity with which Angelica Torn plays Sylvia Plath in "Edge." Paul Alexander's one-woman show provides this superb actress with a galvanizing showcase as the poet who ended her life at age 30, with her children in the next room. Though "Edge" offers plenty of biographical detail, it's more of a psychoanalytic examination of its subject than a history. Set on the day of Plath's death, it begins with the haunting image of the writer sitting at her desk composing a suicide note, followed by an explanation of the events that led to her decision. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Sep 11 14:05:54 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:05:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath play, sans her poetry In-Reply-To: <8C9C2B38AA88C3C-CF0-9736@webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C2B38AA88C3C-CF0-9736@webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E6D902.5000709@opus40.org> I don't think that a writer sitting at her/his desk is ever a haunting image. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.nypost.com/seven/09112007/entertainment/theater/quite_a_touch_of_the_poet.htm > QUITE A TOUCH OF THE POET > By FRANK SCHECK > Rating: > September 11, 2007 -- FEW performers inhabit their characters with the > intensity with which Angelica Torn plays Sylvia Plath in "Edge." > > Paul Alexander's one-woman show provides this superb actress with a > galvanizing showcase as the poet who ended her life at age 30, with > her children in the next room. > > Though "Edge" offers plenty of biographical detail, it's more of a > psychoanalytic examination of its subject than a history. Set on the > day of Plath's death, it begins with the haunting image of the writer > sitting at her desk composing a suicide note, followed by an > explanation of the events that led to her decision. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Tue Sep 11 17:58:27 2007 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:58:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dr. Giggles on 9/11 In-Reply-To: <200709111600.l8BG04HL000543@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709111600.l8BG04HL000543@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Dr. Giggles knew that poetry is a most serious game And that's why on 9/11/01 he went back into World Trade One To save one more someone, anyone, in hell's brimstone. And that's why it is as much necessary as it is not fun To make up something, anything, to say at this time. Yes, the great Richard Wilbur said, "Poetry is a serious game." The games end, however, when art is used for treasonous crime. The Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5daPYlfeHA Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oW96MZPRKE Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSoHHzantik Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPyJwGW87Ys Rawls' Crescent of Betrayal publishes very soon and is still free for a few more weeks at: http://www.crescentofbetrayal.com R.E. Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions As Representative Lantos admonished Craig Livingstone, former Burgh bouncer and bagman for HRC's FBI files: "At least Admiral Borda committed suu-eee-ciide, and for far less." _________________________________________________________________ Can you find the hidden words?? Take a break and play Seekadoo! http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 11 19:49:52 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:49:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wisdom Anthology of North American Buddhist Poetry Message-ID: <8C9C2E595355277-E28-936@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=32906&-Token.Action=&image=1 Nothing else comes close.?--Pacific Rim Review of Books Wisdom Anthology of North American Buddhist Poetry Andrew Schelling, Editor INCLUDES WORKS BY: Diane di Prima o Lawrence Ferlinghetti o Norman Fischer o Sam Hamill o Jane Hirshfield o Mike O'Connor o Gary Snyder o Eliot Weinberger o Philip Whalen o Michael McClure o Leslie Scalapino o and more... Playful, thoughtful, and important, the 28 poets found in The Wisdom Anthology of North American Buddhist Poetry offer innovations on traditional and time-honored Buddhist poetic forms. This unique collection brings us African Americans reading the Black diaspora through the eyes of exiled Tibetan monks; Americans of Vietnamese and Tibetan heritage wrestling with the cultural norms of their parents or ancestors; Zen and Dada inspired performance pieces; and groundbreaking writings from the pioneers of the Beat movement, so many of whom remain not just relevant but vital to this day. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Wed Sep 12 11:32:33 2007 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:32:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Conjugation, my love. Message-ID: <200709121532.l8CFWXVD008022@mail21.atl.registeredsite.com> Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino invites you to Conjugation, my love. The Nick Piombino Interview: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Piombino%20interview.htm Two poems e in Italian translation di Gherardo Bortolotti: http://gammm.org/index.php/2007/09/07/tops-tilting-st-thomasino/ The Guido Boys: http://www.pindeldyboz.com/gstguido.htm Excerpt from a work in progress: http://www.ghotimag.com/St%20Thomasino.htm Here with a narrative in progress: http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ And then there was the blog-auxiliary: http://eratio.blogspot.com/ And have you seen e?ratio lately? http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com e?ratio is reading for poetry for issue 10, the fall 2007 issue. Conjugation, my love. Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino e? From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 12 12:21:49 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:21:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art Quote: Ever had this experience? Message-ID: <8C9C3702820CA6E-3E8-8B06@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> You?re sitting there with your muse and your muse is telling you something and you?re following it, and you end up the next day looking at it and thinking ?what the hell was the muse saying to me?? --Nathan Oliveira [American Painter and Sculptor, born in 1928] ? http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/oliveira_nathan.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Sep 12 13:27:33 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:27:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity Message-ID: Billy Collins, interviewed by Joel Whitney: "I began to dare to be clear, because I think clarity is the real risk in poetry because you are exposed. You're out in the open field. You're actually saying things that are comprehensible, and it's easy to criticize something you can understand. . . . . . . . by clarity I don't mean that we're always in kind of a simple area where everything is clear and comforting and understood. Clarity is certainly a way toward disorientation because if you don't start out?if the reader isn't grounded, if the reader is disoriented in the beginning of the poem, then the reader can't be led astray or disoriented later. So yes, I see the progress typical in some of my poems as starting with something simple and moving into something more demanding. This is certainly the pattern of weird poetry. Coleridge is an example; we start with someone sitting in a backyard, and we go off into these levels of airy speculation. Frost is a good example. We start by coming across a divided road in the woods, and we're talking a couple of lines later about decision-making and the road of life and the rest of it?I think I'm just following what is a common pattern of lyric poetry and, for that matter, it's a common pattern of songs. Singers know that you start kind of soft and you go out bigger." Full interview: http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/19796? utm_source=poetsupdate_091107&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content &utm_term=content_collins&utm_content=newsletter_link# ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 12 13:46:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:46:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Art Quote: Ever had this experience? References: <8C9C3702820CA6E-3E8-8B06@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003701c7f564$d0bf6f50$45a83852@ANNY> I'd like to say that unluckily this is true! From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 6:21 PM You?re sitting there with your muse and your muse is telling you something and you?re following it, and you end up the next day looking at it and thinking ?what the hell was the muse saying to me?? --Nathan Oliveira [American Painter and Sculptor, born in 1928] http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/oliveira_nathan.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 12 16:57:12 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:57:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] laureates share reflections Message-ID: <8C9C396A09A6094-EE0-1829@FWM-D45.sysops.aol.com> National poet laureates share reflections Anthony Simone Issue date: 9/12/07 Section: News While Americans gathered across the country in memorials to honor the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, a reflective crowd of famous bards quietly collected inside the Boston Public Library to share a collection of subtle but powerful poetry. As National Poet Laureate Donald Hall began to read, he shared his work about aging and emotional poems about his wife's death. Robert Pinsky, a Boston University professor and former laureate, also shared his poems with literary fans. Renowned poet Maxine Kumin offered up writings addressing the decadence of mankind and modern society, also taking time to dip into political issues such as the war in Iraq and lawmakers entangled in scandals. "[I am] a helpless citizen of a country I used to love," she said in one poem. Richard Wilbur, who took the stage last, used a series of nature-related metaphors to describe the human condition. In his first poem, Wilbur compared a crawling inchworm to progress in society. He said the poem will be published in a future issue of The New Yorker, which has printed more than 50 of his pieces since 1948. Page 1 of 1 ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 12 17:27:37 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:27:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C39AE0152D1D-EE0-1A52@FWM-D45.sysops.aol.com> David, I think Collins grants too many interviews. This clarity/accessibility thing is always a big part of these informal?conversations, but I'm not sure it's a very interesting topic. Collins success as a poet has nothing to do with his being clear or accessible. Hundreds of poets are as clear (if not clearer) in their poetry?as Billy Collins. His?humor?and?his offbeat takes on unexpected topics probably has more to do with his success than clarity.?The Collins quote below?makes him out?be some kind of lone crusader in a?land of intentionally obscure poets, and I think that's pretty bogus. There may be?a 'fear factor' among some who don't have anything worth saying. Some of them may make poems designed to be inpenetrable, and thus safe from scrutiny on a narrative, notional or psychological level. That's probably a fairly small group of poets.? ? Of course there are many reasons?poetry may be unclear or obscure or difficult to parse. So it's simplistic to name yourself as brave for being?clear and to imply that others are?fearful and feigning/feinting to avoid the critical?scrutiny that?your crystalline?poetry can stand up to.? Finnegan? -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 1:27 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity Billy Collins, interviewed by Joel Whitney: "I began to dare to be clear, because I think clarity is the real risk in poetry because you are exposed. You're out in the open field. You're actually saying things that are comprehensible, and it's easy to criticize something you can understand. . . . . . . . by clarity I don't mean that we're always in kind of a simple area where everything is clear and comforting and understood. Clarity is certainly a way toward disorientation because if you don't start out?if the reader isn't grounded, if the reader is disoriented in the beginning of the poem, then the reader can't be led astray or disoriented later. So yes, I see the progress typical in some of my poems as starting with something simple and moving into something more demanding. This is certainly the pattern of weird poetry. Coleridge is an example; we start with someone sitting in a backyard, and we go off into these levels of airy speculation. Frost is a good example. We start by coming across a divided road in the woods, and we're talking a couple of lines later about decision-making and the road of life and the rest of it?I think I'm just following what is a common pattern of lyric poetry and, for that matter, it's a common pattern of songs. Singers know that you start kind of soft and you go out bigger." Full interview: http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/19796?utm_source=poetsupdate_091107&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=content&utm_term=content_collins&utm_content=newsletter_link# ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== = _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 17:52:53 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] mid)rib issue 1 now online! In-Reply-To: <8C9C39AE0152D1D-EE0-1A52@FWM-D45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <159932.82643.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://midribpoetry.com/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: midribinfo at midribpoetry.com Date: Sep 12, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: mid)rib issue 1 now online! We're pleased to announce the inaugural issue of mid)rib. It is the mid)rib staff's hope to foster an international voice for experimental poetics. We hope you'll take as much pleasure in reading the work of our contributors as we have. In the issue you'll find new work from an eclectic group of writers, including: Tomas S. Butkus, Joel Chace, Regina Derieva, Anna Fulford, H.T. Harrison, Scott Hartwich, Beth Joselow, Kerry Shawn Keys, Amy King, Sarah Maclay, Nicholas Messenger, Bonnie Jean Michalski, Matt Reiter, Susan M. Schultz, Lauren Goodwin Slaughter, Ted Stimpfle and Jim Warner. We welcome your comments and feedback. Please feel free to forward this to any interested parties. Enjoy. Thanks, the mid)rib staff andy martrich, editor gordon faylor, editorial assistant jeremy schevling, art boy/ designer craig czury, contributing editor http://midribpoetry.com/ --- Reviews of I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU Matt Hart / Coldfront Magazine http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html Mark Lamoureux / BOOG City http://static.scribd.com/docs/kflyu7ufa6w1n.swf Nick Piombino / fait accompli http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html Thomas Fink / Galatea Resurrects http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/2007/05/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html ~ Recent Review of ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI Adam Fieled / Stoning the Devil http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-review-amy-king-antidote-for-alibi.html ~ What To Wear During An Orange Alert? http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html ~ http://www.amyking.org/blog ---- --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 18:01:53 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] mid)rib issue 1 now online! In-Reply-To: <8C9C39AE0152D1D-EE0-1A52@FWM-D45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <510745.19108.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://midribpoetry.com/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: midribinfo at midribpoetry.com Date: Sep 12, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: mid)rib issue 1 now online! We're pleased to announce the inaugural issue of mid)rib. It is the mid)rib staff's hope to foster an international voice for experimental poetics. We hope you'll take as much pleasure in reading the work of our contributors as we have. In the issue you'll find new work from an eclectic group of writers, including: Tomas S. Butkus, Joel Chace, Regina Derieva, Anna Fulford, H.T. Harrison, Scott Hartwich, Beth Joselow, Kerry Shawn Keys, Amy King, Sarah Maclay, Nicholas Messenger, Bonnie Jean Michalski, Matt Reiter, Susan M. Schultz, Lauren Goodwin Slaughter, Ted Stimpfle and Jim Warner. We welcome your comments and feedback. Please feel free to forward this to any interested parties. Enjoy. Thanks, the mid)rib staff andy martrich, editor gordon faylor, editorial assistant jeremy schevling, art boy/ designer craig czury, contributing editor http://midribpoetry.com/ --- Reviews of I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU Matt Hart / Coldfront Magazine http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html Mark Lamoureux / BOOG City http://static.scribd.com/docs/kflyu7ufa6w1n.swf Nick Piombino / fait accompli http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html Thomas Fink / Galatea Resurrects http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/2007/05/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html ~ Recent Review of ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI Adam Fieled / Stoning the Devil http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-review-amy-king-antidote-for-alibi.html ~ What To Wear During An Orange Alert? http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html ~ http://www.amyking.org/blog ---- --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 12 20:56:42 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:56:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46E88ACA.9090701@nut-n-but.net> One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is his assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia are almost never anything more than messages is a major problem with them for me. Another reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems (some of Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence and gradually clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. Much music that I like does the same--starts as noise or close to it but eventually achieves a standard resolution. Not that I'm against what Collins favors. Or jittering back and forth in a poem. The placement of clarities and their opposites in a poem is surely something to be decided on a case by case basis. Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call psychological risk; he seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic risk (which, yeah, is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica risk, but very different from what Collins is talking about). My Poem poems seem to me pretty clear (and sometimes intimate), but unrisky. My mathematical poems seem a great risk to me, usually. For instance, will my graphic images come across as crude to a "real" painter? Are the phrases I use that are intended to be gripping images banal and/or sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, for one, fear being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being incoherent and not able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. Interesting topic. --Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Sep 12 21:05:16 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:05:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <46E88ACA.9090701@nut-n-but.net> References: <46E88ACA.9090701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46E88CCC.1070306@opus40.org> OK, now I am starting to worry. I agree pretty much with everything Bob said. Bob Grumman wrote: > One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is his > assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia are > almost never anything more than messages is a major problem with them > for me. > Another reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems > (some of Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence > and gradually clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. > Much music that I like does the same--starts as noise or close to it > but eventually achieves a standard resolution. Not that I'm against > what Collins favors. Or jittering back and forth in a poem. The > placement of clarities and their opposites in a poem is surely > something to be decided on a case by case basis. > > Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call psychological > risk; he seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic > risk (which, yeah, is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica > risk, but very different from what Collins is talking about). My Poem > poems seem to me pretty clear (and sometimes intimate), but unrisky. > My mathematical poems seem a great risk to me, usually. For instance, > will my graphic images come across as crude to a "real" painter? Are > the phrases I use that are intended to be gripping images banal and/or > sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, for one, fear > being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being incoherent > and not able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. > > Interesting topic. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Wed Sep 12 21:09:15 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <46E88ACA.9090701@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: also, something you said here got me to thinking that there's this idea of a two pole continuum on which clarity is at one end and incoherence is at the other. I think that's a false picture. I personally dislike incoherence intensely, but I don't think that that's the same think as selecting for clarity at all. or put another way, the opposite of incoherence is coherence on that spectral graph and it's a mistake to put clarity there. clarity != coherence. On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Bob Grumman wrote: > One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is his > assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia are almost > never anything more than messages is a major problem with them for me. Another > reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems (some of > Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence and gradually > clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. Much music that I like > does the same--starts as noise or close to it but eventually achieves a > standard resolution. Not that I'm against what Collins favors. Or jittering > back and forth in a poem. The placement of clarities and their opposites in a > poem is surely something to be decided on a case by case basis. > > Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call psychological risk; he > seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic risk (which, yeah, > is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica risk, but very different from > what Collins is talking about). My Poem poems seem to me pretty clear (and > sometimes intimate), but unrisky. My mathematical poems seem a great risk to > me, usually. For instance, will my graphic images come across as crude to a > "real" painter? Are the phrases I use that are intended to be gripping images > banal and/or sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, for one, fear > being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being incoherent and not > able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. > > Interesting topic. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 08:54:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:54:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity References: Message-ID: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> I do not know if I agree with James (that would be the very first time...) we know from history that coherence is the winning card starting from Gorgias (see his rhetorical writing on Helen of Troy) up to the best lawyers /teachers /scientists, not to mention archeologists (greatest fiction writers) /priests and nuns /generals. What makes sense is what makes truth, our knowledge is based on coherence. If I am able to write in a cohesive way that red becomes blue and they are yellow, everybody will believe it to be true. Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to dismantle before sunset. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:09 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity > > also, something you said here got me to thinking that there's this idea of a two pole continuum on which clarity is at one end and incoherence is at the other. I think that's a false picture. I personally dislike incoherence intensely, but I don't think that that's the same think as selecting for clarity at all. or put another way, the opposite of incoherence is coherence on that spectral graph and it's a mistake to put clarity there. clarity != coherence. > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is his >> assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia are almost >> never anything more than messages is a major problem with them for me. Another >> reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems (some of >> Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence and gradually >> clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. Much music that I like >> does the same--starts as noise or close to it but eventually achieves a >> standard resolution. Not that I'm against what Collins favors. Or jittering >> back and forth in a poem. The placement of clarities and their opposites in a >> poem is surely something to be decided on a case by case basis. >> >> Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call psychological risk; he >> seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic risk (which, yeah, >> is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica risk, but very different from >> what Collins is talking about). My Poem poems seem to me pretty clear (and >> sometimes intimate), but unrisky. My mathematical poems seem a great risk to >> me, usually. For instance, will my graphic images come across as crude to a >> "real" painter? Are the phrases I use that are intended to be gripping images >> banal and/or sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, for one, fear >> being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being incoherent and not >> able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. >> >> Interesting topic. >> >> --Bob >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 09:15:14 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:15:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E937E2.2060305@opus40.org> That's why institutions should always be dismantled in the dark. Anny Ballardini wrote: > I do not know if I agree with James (that would be the very first time...) > we know from history that coherence is the winning card starting from > Gorgias (see his rhetorical writing on Helen of Troy) up to the best > lawyers /teachers /scientists, not to mention archeologists (greatest > fiction writers) /priests and nuns /generals. What makes sense is what > makes truth, our knowledge is based on coherence. If I am able to > write in a cohesive way that red becomes blue and they are yellow, > everybody will believe it to be true. > Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to > dismantle before sunset. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:09 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity > > > > > also, something you said here got me to thinking that there's this > idea of a two pole continuum on which clarity is at one end and > incoherence is at the other. I think that's a false picture. I > personally dislike incoherence intensely, but I don't think that > that's the same think as selecting for clarity at all. or put another > way, the opposite of incoherence is coherence on that spectral graph > and it's a mistake to put clarity there. clarity != coherence. > > > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > >> One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is his > >> assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia > are almost > >> never anything more than messages is a major problem with them for > me. Another > >> reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems > (some of > >> Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence and > gradually > >> clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. Much music > that I like > >> does the same--starts as noise or close to it but eventually > achieves a > >> standard resolution. Not that I'm against what Collins favors. Or > jittering > >> back and forth in a poem. The placement of clarities and their > opposites in a > >> poem is surely something to be decided on a case by case basis. > >> > >> Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call > psychological risk; he > >> seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic risk > (which, yeah, > >> is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica risk, but very > different from > >> what Collins is talking about). My Poem poems seem to me pretty > clear (and > >> sometimes intimate), but unrisky. My mathematical poems seem a > great risk to > >> me, usually. For instance, will my graphic images come across as > crude to a > >> "real" painter? Are the phrases I use that are intended to be > gripping images > >> banal and/or sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, > for one, fear > >> being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being > incoherent and not > >> able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. > >> > >> Interesting topic. > >> > >> --Bob > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 13 09:31:22 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:31:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <46E88CCC.1070306@opus40.org> References: <46E88ACA.9090701@nut-n-but.net> <46E88CCC.1070306@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8C9C42182752A0D-DEC-A15@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> It's a common, and curable,?affliction, known a Grummania. Topical treatments include applying?ice cold water directly to the scalp after finishing off the beer in the cooler. Finnegan OK, now I am starting to worry. I agree pretty much with everything Bob said.? ----- ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 13 09:52:04 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:52:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Anny, by going after Collins' remark I hope I didn't imply that I was against clarity or coherence. I'm not. Not in poetry or any other sphere...esp. the philosophical. I was irked that Collins seemed to indicate that the great strength of his poetry is clarity and that his work was somehow a?corrective to the?wayward?slide in poetry toward the difficult and?obscure. You only have to read?the journals and new books coming out to see that there is plenty?of fragmentary/disjunctive/vague poetry being produced. It's?the fashion among?many in post-avant camp.?At the same time there is, and has been, much good poetry being produced that is as clear as Collins. Collins' strengths, and his evident success in attracting a large?readership and even some new converts to poetry,?lie in features other than clarity. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 8:54 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity I do not know if I agree with James (that would be the very first time...) we know from history that coherence is the winning card starting from Gorgias (see his rhetorical writing on Helen of Troy) up to the best lawyers /teachers /scientists, not to mention archeologists (greatest fiction writers) /priests and nuns /generals. What makes sense is what makes truth, our knowledge is based on coherence. If I am able to write in a cohesive way that red becomes blue and they are yellow, everybody will believe it to be true. Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to dismantle before sunset. ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 10:39:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:39:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003101c7f613$edff46d0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Clear as the sun. We are a step backwards, I just pushed it forward, sorry for that. From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:52 PM Anny, by going after Collins' remark I hope I didn't imply that I was against clarity or coherence. I'm not. Not in poetry or any other sphere...esp. the philosophical. I was irked that Collins seemed to indicate that the great strength of his poetry is clarity and that his work was somehow a corrective to the wayward slide in poetry toward the difficult and obscure. You only have to read the journals and new books coming out to see that there is plenty of fragmentary/disjunctive/vague poetry being produced. It's the fashion among many in post-avant camp. At the same time there is, and has been, much good poetry being produced that is as clear as Collins. Collins' strengths, and his evident success in attracting a large readership and even some new converts to poetry, lie in features other than clarity. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 8:54 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity I do not know if I agree with James (that would be the very first time...) we know from history that coherence is the winning card starting from Gorgias (see his rhetorical writing on Helen of Troy) up to the best lawyers /teachers /scientists, not to mention archeologists (greatest fiction writers) /priests and nuns /generals. What makes sense is what makes truth, our knowledge is based on coherence. If I am able to write in a cohesive way that red becomes blue and they are yellow, everybody will believe it to be true. Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to dismantle before sunset. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 10:49:21 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:49:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity References: <46E88ACA.9090701@nut-n-but.net><46E88CCC.1070306@opus40.org> <8C9C42182752A0D-DEC-A15@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004501c7f615$4500e0a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> not too bad, especially for the beer, ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity It's a common, and curable, affliction, known a Grummania. Topical treatments include applying ice cold water directly to the scalp after finishing off the beer in the cooler. Finnegan OK, now I am starting to worry. I agree pretty much with everything Bob said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 11:20:23 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:20:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E95537.10605@opus40.org> *DECONSTRUCTING WITH SOOKIE*** /Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to dismantle before sunset./ / --Anny Ballardini/ Sookie loves to dismantle institutitions but she?s forgotten her tools or so she says and she?s trapped in the elevator between the tenth and eleventh floors says she needs help but you help Sookie at your own peril anyway she has her own plan for deconstruction she does it at night cloudy climes and starless skies most of the time it?s me she?s deconstructing Sookie says you have to tear down the walls so you get clarity but hers always stay up Anny Ballardini wrote: > I do not know if I agree with James (that would be the very first time...) > we know from history that coherence is the winning card starting from > Gorgias (see his rhetorical writing on Helen of Troy) up to the best > lawyers /teachers /scientists, not to mention archeologists (greatest > fiction writers) /priests and nuns /generals. What makes sense is what > makes truth, our knowledge is based on coherence. If I am able to > write in a cohesive way that red becomes blue and they are yellow, > everybody will believe it to be true. > Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to > dismantle before sunset. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:09 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity > > > > > also, something you said here got me to thinking that there's this > idea of a two pole continuum on which clarity is at one end and > incoherence is at the other. I think that's a false picture. I > personally dislike incoherence intensely, but I don't think that > that's the same think as selecting for clarity at all. or put another > way, the opposite of incoherence is coherence on that spectral graph > and it's a mistake to put clarity there. clarity != coherence. > > > > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > >> One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is his > >> assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia > are almost > >> never anything more than messages is a major problem with them for > me. Another > >> reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems > (some of > >> Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence and > gradually > >> clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. Much music > that I like > >> does the same--starts as noise or close to it but eventually > achieves a > >> standard resolution. Not that I'm against what Collins favors. Or > jittering > >> back and forth in a poem. The placement of clarities and their > opposites in a > >> poem is surely something to be decided on a case by case basis. > >> > >> Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call > psychological risk; he > >> seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic risk > (which, yeah, > >> is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica risk, but very > different from > >> what Collins is talking about). My Poem poems seem to me pretty > clear (and > >> sometimes intimate), but unrisky. My mathematical poems seem a > great risk to > >> me, usually. For instance, will my graphic images come across as > crude to a > >> "real" painter? Are the phrases I use that are intended to be > gripping images > >> banal and/or sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, for > one, fear > >> being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being > incoherent and not > >> able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. > >> > >> Interesting topic. > >> > >> --Bob > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 11:24:00 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:24:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <46E95537.10605@opus40.org> Message-ID: <005c01c7f61a$1ca645f0$fbaa3852@ANNY> whoo's sookie? From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:20 PM > *DECONSTRUCTING WITH SOOKIE*** > > /Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to > dismantle before sunset./ > > / --Anny Ballardini/ > > Sookie loves to > > dismantle > > institutitions but she?s > > forgotten her tools > > or so she says > > and she?s trapped > > in the elevator > > between the tenth and > > eleventh floors > > says she needs > > help but you help Sookie > > at your own peril > > anyway she > > has her own > > plan for deconstruction > > she does it at night > > cloudy climes and > > starless skies > > most of the time it?s me > > she?s deconstructing > > Sookie says you > > have to tear > > down the walls so you get > > clarity but hers > > always stay up > > > From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 11:26:02 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:26:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <46E95537.10605@opus40.org> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <46E95537.10605@opus40.org> Message-ID: <46E9568A.8000807@opus40.org> Oooh, that looks like shit. Imagine it in five-line stanzas. centered on the page, with the epigraph (Annygraph?) in italics, left-justified. with a ,argoin about 3/4 of thje way across the page. TheOldMole wrote: > *DECONSTRUCTING WITH SOOKIE*** > > /Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to > dismantle before sunset./ > > / --Anny Ballardini/ > > Sookie loves to > > dismantle > > institutitions but she?s > > forgotten her tools > > or so she says > > and she?s trapped > > in the elevator > > between the tenth and > > eleventh floors > > says she needs > > help but you help Sookie > > at your own peril > > anyway she > > has her own > > plan for deconstruction > > she does it at night > > cloudy climes and > > starless skies > > most of the time it?s me > > she?s deconstructing > > Sookie says you > > have to tear > > down the walls so you get > > clarity but hers > > always stay up > > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> I do not know if I agree with James (that would be the very first >> time...) >> we know from history that coherence is the winning card starting from >> Gorgias (see his rhetorical writing on Helen of Troy) up to the best >> lawyers /teachers /scientists, not to mention archeologists (greatest >> fiction writers) /priests and nuns /generals. What makes sense is >> what makes truth, our knowledge is based on coherence. If I am able >> to write in a cohesive way that red becomes blue and they are yellow, >> everybody will believe it to be true. >> Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to >> dismantle before sunset. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: > >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" >> > >> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 3:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity >> >> > >> > also, something you said here got me to thinking that there's this >> idea of a two pole continuum on which clarity is at one end and >> incoherence is at the other. I think that's a false picture. I >> personally dislike incoherence intensely, but I don't think that >> that's the same think as selecting for clarity at all. or put another >> way, the opposite of incoherence is coherence on that spectral graph >> and it's a mistake to put clarity there. clarity != coherence. >> > >> > On Wed, 12 Sep 2007, Bob Grumman wrote: >> > >> >> One thing I find interesting about Collins's remarks on clarity is >> his >> >> assumption that a poem is a message. That the poems of Wilshberia >> are almost >> >> never anything more than messages is a major problem with them for >> me. Another >> >> reaction of mine to what David quoted: I know and admire poems >> (some of >> >> Roethke's, for instance) that start in or near incoherence and >> gradually >> >> clarify, which is the opposite of what Collins favors. Much music >> that I like >> >> does the same--starts as noise or close to it but eventually >> achieves a >> >> standard resolution. Not that I'm against what Collins favors. Or >> jittering >> >> back and forth in a poem. The placement of clarities and their >> opposites in a >> >> poem is surely something to be decided on a case by case basis. >> >> >> >> Another thought: Collins is talking about what I'd call >> psychological risk; he >> >> seems not to realize that there's such a thing as aesthetic risk >> (which, yeah, >> >> is no doubt in some final sense a psychologica risk, but very >> different from >> >> what Collins is talking about). My Poem poems seem to me pretty >> clear (and >> >> sometimes intimate), but unrisky. My mathematical poems seem a >> great risk to >> >> me, usually. For instance, will my graphic images come across as >> crude to a >> >> "real" painter? Are the phrases I use that are intended to be >> gripping images >> >> banal and/or sentimental and/or pretentious? Or incoherent. I, for >> one, fear >> >> being considered incoherent, and fear more actually being >> incoherent and not >> >> able to recognize it. I also fear being too simple.. >> >> >> >> Interesting topic. >> >> >> >> --Bob >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 11:27:47 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:27:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity In-Reply-To: <005c01c7f61a$1ca645f0$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <46E95537.10605@opus40.org> <005c01c7f61a$1ca645f0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E956F3.9090107@opus40.org> Sookie is my muse, whose exploits have been featured over a sequence of poems, most of which are going to be in my about-to-be-published chapbook. Anny Ballardini wrote: > whoo's sookie? > > From: "TheOldMole" > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:20 PM > > >> *DECONSTRUCTING WITH SOOKIE*** >> >> /Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to >> dismantle before sunset./ >> >> / --Anny Ballardini/ >> >> Sookie loves to >> >> dismantle >> >> institutitions but she?s >> >> forgotten her tools >> >> or so she says >> >> and she?s trapped >> >> in the elevator >> >> between the tenth and >> >> eleventh floors >> >> says she needs >> >> help but you help Sookie >> >> at your own peril >> >> anyway she >> >> has her own >> >> plan for deconstruction >> >> she does it at night >> >> cloudy climes and >> >> starless skies >> >> most of the time it?s me >> >> she?s deconstructing >> >> Sookie says you >> >> have to tear >> >> down the walls so you get >> >> clarity but hers >> >> always stay up >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 11:31:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:31:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY><46E95537.10605@opus40.org> <46E9568A.8000807@opus40.org> Message-ID: <006f01c7f61b$2b116a60$fbaa3852@ANNY> lovely lovely, :-) From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:26 PM > Oooh, that looks like shit. Imagine it in five-line stanzas. centered on > the page, with the epigraph (Annygraph?) in italics, left-justified. with > a ,argoin about 3/4 of thje way across the page. > > TheOldMole wrote: >> *DECONSTRUCTING WITH SOOKIE*** >> >> /Deconstruction is here to help but institutions are too heavy to >> dismantle before sunset./ >> >> / --Anny Ballardini/ >> >> Sookie loves to >> >> dismantle >> >> institutitions but she?s >> >> forgotten her tools >> >> or so she says >> >> and she?s trapped >> >> in the elevator >> >> between the tenth and >> >> eleventh floors >> >> says she needs >> >> help but you help Sookie >> >> at your own peril >> >> anyway she >> >> has her own >> >> plan for deconstruction >> >> she does it at night >> >> cloudy climes and >> >> starless skies >> >> most of the time it?s me >> >> she?s deconstructing >> >> Sookie says you >> >> have to tear >> >> down the walls so you get >> >> clarity but hers >> >> always stay up >> >> >> From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Sep 13 11:48:06 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:48:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity, etc. In-Reply-To: <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Lots to ponder on this topic. I'd say Jim Finnegan's right about Collins's strength not being chiefly in his clarity, which is a fairly neutral quality, and a trait he shares with many other current poets. In fairness, I'm not sure he ever claims such a thing, just expresses his preference for that stylistic mode. Collins's virtues would include a real metaphoric freshness, and his deadpan humor. I also think Collins has an unfortunate tendency, not to give too many interviews, but not to give enough in them: he's so glib that he often settles for an arresting metaphor rather than serious probing. By the same token, as often happens with interviews, I wish the questioner would push harder. For instance, Collins makes it clear that he's not against challenging, complex, elliptical poetry, much as he values what he calls clarity. Clarity does not equal simplicity or ease. He singles out Ashbery and Jorie Graham, for instance, as frequently difficult poets that he admires. But that's when a good interviewer might have pushed him a bit. I'd love to know why, in Collins's opinion, Ashbery is enjoyable, as compared to whomever. I like the notion of dividing clarity into various kinds: narrative, grammatical, tonal, thematic, dramatic, etc. There is of course a sense in which Ashbery is crystal clear. For instance, he is seldom unclear at the syntactical level, unlike many postmoderns, even though his famously shifty pronoun reference & his disjunctive style can have much the same effect as actual grammatical soup. His strangeness is like Magritte's, often: all the parts utterly literal, the overall composition odd, dreamlike. Was anyone else surprised by Collins's prediction of the single current poet most likely to be considered great by future eras? Whitney: . . . Do you think that your poems will last? Do you care? Collins: There's just no telling. I don't know. I always think [W. S.] Merwin's poems will last of anyone writing today. If I had to bet on posterity I would bet Merwin. My poems could easily evaporate. So I don't know. If you find yourself as a writer thinking about posterity you should probably go out for a brisk walk or something. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 13, 2007, at 8:52 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Anny, by going after Collins' remark I hope I didn't imply that I > was against clarity or coherence. I'm not. Not in poetry or any > other sphere...esp. the philosophical. I was irked that Collins > seemed to indicate that the great strength of his poetry is clarity > and that his work was somehow a corrective to the wayward slide in > poetry toward the difficult and obscure. You only have to read the > journals and new books coming out to see that there is plenty of > fragmentary/disjunctive/vague poetry being produced. It's the > fashion among many in post-avant camp. At the same time there is, > and has been, much good poetry being produced that is as clear as > Collins. Collins' strengths, and his evident success in attracting > a large readership and even some new converts to poetry, lie in > features other than clarity. > Finnegan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 12:15:12 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] diode - #1 In-Reply-To: <159932.82643.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <402211.74700.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ???Enter diode, teeming with ???poetry that excites and energizes. . . . poetry that uses language that crackles and sparks.??? We set out to find poetry that creates an arc between writer and reader, an arc that hums with the live current of language.??? http://www.diodepoetry.com/ Includes work by Chris Abani, Laura McCullough, Rick Barot, Amy King, Bob Hicok, Frankie Drayus, Allison Titus & Rob Schlegel, Julie Doxsee & Mathias Svalina, Eve Rifkah, Peter Jay Shippy, Suzanne Frischkorn, Jake Adam York, Susan Settlemyre Williams, Tara Moyle, Matthew Wills, Karen Schubert, Carmen Gimenez Smith, Joshua Ware, Rich Murphy, and Didi Menendez. http://www.diodepoetry.com/v1n1/index.html --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 13 12:43:06 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) In-Reply-To: References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> The Poem?May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because... Purposeful Evasion of Understanding The poem was not meant to be clear or understood in any conventional sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something that can?t be parsed or comprehended. It may have been out of fear that the reader would think the poet thin of mind, or it may?be just the poet resists the idea that poems should be knowable in a conventional sense. It's All There With Enough?Time, Effort,?And The?Will It may take you several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, but nothing in the poem is not stated?or?misexpressed in a way that it?can never?be comprehended or experienced fully. You might need a bigger dictionary or full?encyclopedia set, or?the ability to develop?the emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can get there from here, eventually. Merely Readerly Failure The poem is reasonably clear and understandable if the various references and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and grasped. But they can ?t be: (a) Because you have different knowledge set or (b) you have a fairly low level of erudition. The latter is not elitism; it?s a fact that more you?ve read and studied, the more you?re likely to understand. Some poets prefer to throw a wide net; others are perfectly happy that only readers of a certain level of acumen will gain entry to the poem?s fullest sense. The Translation or Transference Problem The poem was perfectly clear?in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, most readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference problem ocurred: words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s inability to shape/make the kinds of?sentences and?language elements?that would make the poem understandable across a wide & diverse?group of readers. Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: The world is chaotic, life is disorderly and imperfectly understood by the?human mind, therefore the poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw puzzle spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it together. Pushing the Language To Its Limits With a vast vocabulary and syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses the language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to make sense of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is pushing the envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard Manley Hopkins. Or the way Wallace Stevens feels his way through a poem by thinking based more on sound than sense. Ordinary words can be apt neologisms in hands of certain poets. Gertrude Stein pressing ordinary rhetoric into the ?surrhetorical?. The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive The aphoristic and imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences and phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are content to string these elements together or splatter them about a page and just let them do what they may in the mind of the reader. Sometimes it?s just enjoyable to cut things up, the collage, the kaleidoscopic, the slamdance of words and syllables, to break sentences unexpectedly, to leave the reader hanging on ledge of words, to practice legerdemain in language. It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated The difficulty/obscurity of the subject matter or psychological state that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. The writer intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps no writer will ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence of it in words. The experience is real but ineffable. The emotionally driven lyric flight, or the speaker so surrendering to a language rending state that may verge on glossalalia, hysteria, or a speaking in tongues. Or, in fact, the subject matter is too great in scope and too multi-faceted or too deeply layered to ever be captured in language or in the space of a single poem or even a sequence of poems. Think of thee poem of America that Whitman almost managed to write. One or More Possible Readings The poem is composed in such a way that perfectly good readers will come away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about or trying to getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent valid interpretations and experiences of the poem. The composition may have been intentionally constructed to expose multiple facets and interpretative aspects. Or it just came out that way. Once the poem enters the public domain, whether the poet intended this is somewhat beside the point; though the poet has a right to be disappointed if his/her preferred interpretation/experience wasn?t carried over to the reader (which is related to translation/transference problem). Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language The poem is meant to be an experience of perception, rather than to be understood. The experience being on the level of the materiality of language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, etc., being foregrounded) and consciously not employing the communicative elements of language offers. Sound poetry, pure poetry, certain forms of language poetry. Of course, many readers may experience it in many ways, which is generally not seen as a deficiency but as opportunity. It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist The poem intentionally takes the reader into a place where things aren?t clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader some new and intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant collocations of things and weird imagery. It can be the dream poem rendered exactly as remembered stream-of-consciousness dictated.?Or, as in dadaism, the wholesale rejection of poetry as anything more than a conceptual art or a socio-political act that should push, if not shove, the reader out of his/her complacency and literary comfort zone. Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule The poem is using a particular pattern or formal construct for its structure. The form is paramount, not the content. Poems based on a mathematical sequence, like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and syntax for effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a random noun wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for example. It?s Oulipo, baby. Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System The poem is stripped down to a point that what words remain, as clear as they are, invite or allow many different ways of fleshing out the poem in reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and now many people are now going to see many different things through it. The paradox of description: Too much and too detailed in description and the reader?s mind is not be given free rein to explore in and around what has been expressed, gets too lazy to tease out nuances. Too little descriptive guidance and all control of the reader?s experience and taking from the poem is surrendered, whether intentionally or unintentionally.? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 15:04:34 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:04:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E989C2.4050805@opus40.org> I think mostly writers don't set out to be obscure. Some do, probably. But most of us try to express, as clearly as the subject warrants, things that are complicated. The Cubists weren't trying to be obscure; they were just trying to show, as clearly as possible, something that our eyes couldn't actually see all at once, but our brains could take in all at once. I think I may have taken the opposite tack from Collins. I used to worry about clarity, then I decided to stop caring about it one way or the other. After I stopped, oddly enough, people would tell me how much more accessible my new poems were. One more thought on clarity. I heard Mick Jagger say in an interview that Muddy Waters had told him, if you concentrate too much on pronouncing the words clearly -- if the listener can hear the words too clearly -- you lose emotional intensity. David Graham wrote: > Lots to ponder on this topic. I'd say Jim Finnegan's right about > Collins's strength not being chiefly in his clarity, which is a fairly > neutral quality, and a trait he shares with many other current poets. > In fairness, I'm not sure he ever claims such a thing, just expresses > his preference for that stylistic mode. Collins's virtues would > include a real metaphoric freshness, and his deadpan humor. > > I also think Collins has an unfortunate tendency, not to give too many > interviews, but not to give enough in them: he's so glib that he > often settles for an arresting metaphor rather than serious probing. > By the same token, as often happens with interviews, I wish the > questioner would push harder. > > For instance, Collins makes it clear that he's not against > challenging, complex, elliptical poetry, much as he values what he > calls clarity. Clarity does not equal simplicity or ease. He singles > out Ashbery and Jorie Graham, for instance, as frequently difficult > poets that he admires. But that's when a good interviewer might have > pushed him a bit. I'd love to know why, in Collins's opinion, Ashbery > is enjoyable, as compared to whomever. > > I like the notion of dividing clarity into various kinds: narrative, > grammatical, tonal, thematic, dramatic, etc. There is of course a > sense in which Ashbery is crystal clear. For instance, he is seldom > unclear at the syntactical level, unlike many postmoderns, even though > his famously shifty pronoun reference & his disjunctive style can have > much the same effect as actual grammatical soup. His strangeness is > like Magritte's, often: all the parts utterly literal, the overall > composition odd, dreamlike. > > Was anyone else surprised by Collins's prediction of the single > current poet most likely to be considered great by future eras? > > Whitney: . . . Do you think *that you*r poems will last? Do you care? > > Collins: There's just no telling. I don't know. I always think [W. S.] > Merwin's poems will last of anyone writing today. If I had to bet on > posterity I would bet Merwin. My poems could easily evaporate. So I > don't know. If you find yourself as a writer thinking about posterity > you should probably go out for a brisk walk or something. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Sep 13, 2007, at 8:52 AM, jforjames at aol.com > wrote: > >> Anny, by going after Collins' remark I hope I didn't imply that I was >> against clarity or coherence. I'm not. Not in poetry or any other >> sphere...esp. the philosophical. I was irked that Collins seemed to >> indicate that the great strength of his poetry is clarity and that >> his work was somehow a corrective to the wayward slide in poetry >> toward the difficult and obscure. You only have to read the journals >> and new books coming out to see that there is plenty of >> fragmentary/disjunctive/vague poetry being produced. It's the fashion >> among many in post-avant camp. At the same time there is, and has >> been, much good poetry being produced that is as clear as Collins. >> Collins' strengths, and his evident success in attracting a >> large readership and even some new converts to poetry, lie in >> features other than clarity. >> Finnegan >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 15:10:12 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:10:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) In-Reply-To: <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> I'm saving this one. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > The Poem May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because... > > Purposeful Evasion of Understanding > The poem was not meant to be clear or understood in any conventional > sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something that can?t be > parsed or comprehended. It may have been out of fear that the reader > would think the poet thin of mind, or it may be just the poet resists > the idea that poems should be knowable in a conventional sense. > > It's All There With Enough Time, Effort, And The Will > It may take you several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, but > nothing in the poem is not stated or misexpressed in a way that it can > never be comprehended or experienced fully. You might need a bigger > dictionary or full encyclopedia set, or the ability to develop the > emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can get there from here, > eventually. > > Merely Readerly Failure > The poem is reasonably clear and understandable if the various > references and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and > grasped. But they can ?t be: (a) Because you have different knowledge > set or (b) you have a fairly low level of erudition. The latter is not > elitism; it?s a fact that more you?ve read and studied, the more > you?re likely to understand. Some poets prefer to throw a wide net; > others are perfectly happy that only readers of a certain level of > acumen will gain entry to the poem?s fullest sense. > > The Translation or Transference Problem > The poem was perfectly clear in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, > most readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference problem > ocurred: words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s inability to > shape/make the kinds of sentences and language elements that would > make the poem understandable across a wide & diverse group of readers. > > Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear > Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: The world is chaotic, life is > disorderly and imperfectly understood by the human mind, therefore the > poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw puzzle > spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it together. > > Pushing the Language To Its Limits > With a vast vocabulary and syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses > the language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to make > sense of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is pushing > the envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard Manley Hopkins. > Or the way Wallace Stevens feels his way through a poem by thinking > based more on sound than sense. Ordinary words can be apt neologisms > in hands of certain poets. Gertrude Stein pressing ordinary rhetoric > into the ?surrhetorical?. > > The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive > The aphoristic and imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences and > phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are content to > string these elements together or splatter them about a page and just > let them do what they may in the mind of the reader. Sometimes it?s > just enjoyable to cut things up, the collage, the kaleidoscopic, the > slamdance of words and syllables, to break sentences unexpectedly, to > leave the reader hanging on ledge of words, to practice legerdemain in > language. > > It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated > The difficulty/obscurity of the subject matter or psychological state > that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. The writer > intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps no writer will > ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence of it in words. The > experience is real but ineffable. The emotionally driven lyric flight, > or the speaker so surrendering to a language rending state that may > verge on glossalalia, hysteria, or a speaking in tongues. Or, in fact, > the subject matter is too great in scope and too multi-faceted or too > deeply layered to ever be captured in language or in the space of a > single poem or even a sequence of poems. Think of thee poem of America > that Whitman almost managed to write. > > One or More Possible Readings > The poem is composed in such a way that perfectly good readers will > come away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about or > trying to getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent valid > interpretations and experiences of the poem. The composition may have > been intentionally constructed to expose multiple facets and > interpretative aspects. Or it just came out that way. Once the poem > enters the public domain, whether the poet intended this is somewhat > beside the point; though the poet has a right to be disappointed if > his/her preferred interpretation/experience wasn?t carried over to the > reader (which is related to translation/transference problem). > > Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language > The poem is meant to be an experience of perception, rather than to be > understood. The experience being on the level of the materiality of > language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, etc., being > foregrounded) and consciously not employing the communicative elements > of language offers. Sound poetry, pure poetry, certain forms of > language poetry. Of course, many readers may experience it in many > ways, which is generally not seen as a deficiency but as opportunity. > > It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist > The poem intentionally takes the reader into a place where things > aren?t clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader some > new and intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant > collocations of things and weird imagery. It can be the dream poem > rendered exactly as remembered stream-of-consciousness dictated. Or, > as in dadaism, the wholesale rejection of poetry as anything more than > a conceptual art or a socio-political act that should push, if not > shove, the reader out of his/her complacency and literary comfort zone. > Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule > The poem is using a particular pattern or formal construct for its > structure. The form is paramount, not the content. Poems based on a > mathematical sequence, like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and syntax > for effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a random noun > wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for example. It?s > Oulipo, baby. > > Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System > The poem is stripped down to a point that what words remain, as clear > as they are, invite or allow many different ways of fleshing out the > poem in reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and now many people are > now going to see many different things through it. The paradox of > description: Too much and too detailed in description and the reader?s > mind is not be given free rein to explore in and around what has been > expressed, gets too lazy to tease out nuances. Too little descriptive > guidance and all control of the reader?s experience and taking from > the poem is surrendered, whether intentionally or unintentionally. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 15:19:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:19:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY> I'm sending it to my blog! James let me know if you do not wish it there. From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:10 PM > I'm saving this one. > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> The Poem May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because... >> >> Purposeful Evasion of Understanding >> The poem was not meant to be clear or understood in any conventional >> sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something that can?t be parsed >> or comprehended. It may have been out of fear that the reader would think >> the poet thin of mind, or it may be just the poet resists the idea that >> poems should be knowable in a conventional sense. >> >> It's All There With Enough Time, Effort, And The Will >> It may take you several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, but >> nothing in the poem is not stated or misexpressed in a way that it can >> never be comprehended or experienced fully. You might need a bigger >> dictionary or full encyclopedia set, or the ability to develop the >> emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can get there from here, >> eventually. >> >> Merely Readerly Failure >> The poem is reasonably clear and understandable if the various references >> and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and grasped. But they >> can ?t be: (a) Because you have different knowledge set or (b) you have a >> fairly low level of erudition. The latter is not elitism; it?s a fact >> that more you?ve read and studied, the more you?re likely to understand. >> Some poets prefer to throw a wide net; others are perfectly happy that >> only readers of a certain level of acumen will gain entry to the poem?s >> fullest sense. >> >> The Translation or Transference Problem >> The poem was perfectly clear in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, most >> readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference problem ocurred: >> words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s inability to shape/make the >> kinds of sentences and language elements that would make the poem >> understandable across a wide & diverse group of readers. >> >> Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear >> Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: The world is chaotic, life is >> disorderly and imperfectly understood by the human mind, therefore the >> poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw puzzle >> spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it together. >> >> Pushing the Language To Its Limits >> With a vast vocabulary and syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses the >> language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to make sense >> of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is pushing the >> envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard Manley Hopkins. Or the >> way Wallace Stevens feels his way through a poem by thinking based more >> on sound than sense. Ordinary words can be apt neologisms in hands of >> certain poets. Gertrude Stein pressing ordinary rhetoric into the >> ?surrhetorical?. >> >> The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive >> The aphoristic and imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences and >> phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are content to string >> these elements together or splatter them about a page and just let them >> do what they may in the mind of the reader. Sometimes it?s just enjoyable >> to cut things up, the collage, the kaleidoscopic, the slamdance of words >> and syllables, to break sentences unexpectedly, to leave the reader >> hanging on ledge of words, to practice legerdemain in language. >> >> It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated >> The difficulty/obscurity of the subject matter or psychological state >> that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. The writer >> intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps no writer will >> ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence of it in words. The >> experience is real but ineffable. The emotionally driven lyric flight, or >> the speaker so surrendering to a language rending state that may verge on >> glossalalia, hysteria, or a speaking in tongues. Or, in fact, the subject >> matter is too great in scope and too multi-faceted or too deeply layered >> to ever be captured in language or in the space of a single poem or even >> a sequence of poems. Think of thee poem of America that Whitman almost >> managed to write. >> >> One or More Possible Readings >> The poem is composed in such a way that perfectly good readers will come >> away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about or trying to >> getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent valid >> interpretations and experiences of the poem. The composition may have >> been intentionally constructed to expose multiple facets and >> interpretative aspects. Or it just came out that way. Once the poem >> enters the public domain, whether the poet intended this is somewhat >> beside the point; though the poet has a right to be disappointed if >> his/her preferred interpretation/experience wasn?t carried over to the >> reader (which is related to translation/transference problem). >> >> Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language >> The poem is meant to be an experience of perception, rather than to be >> understood. The experience being on the level of the materiality of >> language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, etc., being foregrounded) >> and consciously not employing the communicative elements of language >> offers. Sound poetry, pure poetry, certain forms of language poetry. Of >> course, many readers may experience it in many ways, which is generally >> not seen as a deficiency but as opportunity. >> >> It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist >> The poem intentionally takes the reader into a place where things aren?t >> clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader some new and >> intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant collocations of things >> and weird imagery. It can be the dream poem rendered exactly as >> remembered stream-of-consciousness dictated. Or, as in dadaism, the >> wholesale rejection of poetry as anything more than a conceptual art or a >> socio-political act that should push, if not shove, the reader out of >> his/her complacency and literary comfort zone. >> Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule >> The poem is using a particular pattern or formal construct for its >> structure. The form is paramount, not the content. Poems based on a >> mathematical sequence, like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and syntax for >> effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a random noun >> wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for example. It?s >> Oulipo, baby. >> >> Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System >> The poem is stripped down to a point that what words remain, as clear as >> they are, invite or allow many different ways of fleshing out the poem in >> reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and now many people are now going to >> see many different things through it. The paradox of description: Too >> much and too detailed in description and the reader?s mind is not be >> given free rein to explore in and around what has been expressed, gets >> too lazy to tease out nuances. Too little descriptive guidance and all >> control of the reader?s experience and taking from the poem is >> surrendered, whether intentionally or unintentionally. From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 13 15:44:34 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:44:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) In-Reply-To: <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C9C455A4FE73F0-A10-2267@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> Anny, you're welcome to use but let me clean up the typos and unclear parts. It was?written quickly?out some thoughts provoked by this topic. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 3:19 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) I'm sending it to my blog! James let me know if you do not wish it there.? ? From: "TheOldMole" ? Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:10 PM? ? > I'm saving this one.? >? > jforjames at aol.com wrote:? >> The Poem May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because...? >>? >> Purposeful Evasion of Understanding? >> The poem was not meant to be clear or understood in any conventional >> sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something that can?t be parsed >> or comprehended. It may have been out of fear that the reader would think >> the poet thin of mind, or it may be just the poet resists the idea that >> poems should be knowable in a conventional sense.? >>? >> It's All There With Enough Time, Effort, And The Will? >> It may take you several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, but >> nothing in the poem is not stated or misexpressed in a way that it can >> never be comprehended or experienced fully. You might need a bigger >> dictionary or full encyclopedia set, or the ability to develop the >> emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can get there from here, >> eventually.? >>? >> Merely Readerly Failure? >> The poem is reasonably clear and understandable if the various references >> and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and grasped. But they >> can ?t be: (a) Because you have different knowledge set or (b) you have a >> fairly low level of erudition. The latter is not elitism; it?s a fact >> that more you?ve read and studied, the more you?re likely to understand. >> Some poets prefer to throw a wide net; others are perfectly happy that >> only readers of a certain level of acumen will gain entry to the poem?s >> fullest sense.? >>? >> The Translation or Transference Problem? >> The poem was perfectly clear in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, most >> readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference problem ocurred: >> words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s inability to shape/make the >> kinds of sentences and language elements that would make the poem >> understandable across a wide & diverse group of readers.? >>? >> Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear? >> Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: The world is chaotic, life is >> disorderly and imperfectly understood by the human mind, therefore the >> poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw puzzle >> spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it together.? >>? >> Pushing the Language To Its Limits? >> With a vast vocabulary and syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses the >> language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to make sense >> of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is pushing the >> envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard Manley Hopkins. Or the >> way Wallace Stevens feels his way through a poem by thinking based more >> on sound than sense. Ordinary words can be apt neologisms in hands of >> certain poets. Gertrude Stein pressing ordinary rhetoric into the >> ?surrhetorical?.? >>? >> The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive? >> The aphoristic and imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences and >> phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are content to string >> these elements together or splatter them about a page and just let them >> do what they may in the mind of the reader. Sometimes it?s just enjoyable >> to cut things up, the collage, the kaleidoscopic, the slamdance of words >> and syllables, to break sentences unexpectedly, to leave the reader >> hanging on ledge of words, to practice legerdemain in language.? >>? >> It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated? >> The difficulty/obscurity of the subject matter or psychological state >> that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. The writer >> intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps no writer will >> ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence of it in words. The >> experience is real but ineffable. The emotionally driven lyric flight, or >> the speaker so surrendering to a language rending state that may verge on >> glossalalia, hysteria, or a speaking in tongues. Or, in fact, the subject >> matter is too great in scope and too multi-faceted or too deeply layered >> to ever be captured in language or in the space of a single poem or even >> a sequence of poems. Think of thee poem of America that Whitman almost >> managed to write.? >>? >> One or More Possible Readings? >> The poem is composed in such a way that perfectly good readers will come >> away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about or trying to >> getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent valid >> interpretations and experiences of the poem. The composition may have >> been intentionally constructed to expose multiple facets and >> interpretative aspects. Or it just came out that way. Once the poem >> enters the public domain, whether the poet intended this is somewhat >> beside the point; though the poet has a right to be disappointed if >> his/her preferred interpretation/experience wasn?t carried over to the >> reader (which is related to translation/transference problem).? >>? >> Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language? >> The poem is meant to be an experience of perception, rather than to be >> understood. The experience being on the level of the materiality of >> language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, etc., being foregrounded) >> and consciously not employing the communicative elements of language >> offers. Sound poetry, pure poetry, certain forms of language poetry. Of >> course, many readers may experience it in many ways, which is generally >> not seen as a deficiency but as opportunity.? >>? >> It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist? >> The poem intentionally takes the reader into a place where things aren?t >> clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader some new and >> intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant collocations of things >> and weird imagery. It can be the dream poem rendered exactly as >> remembered stream-of-consciousness dictated. Or, as in dadaism, the >> wholesale rejection of poetry as anything more than a conceptual art or a >> socio-political act that should push, if not shove, the reader out of >> his/her complacency and literary comfort zone.? >> Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule? >> The poem is using a particular pattern or formal construct for its >> structure. The form is paramount, not the content. Poems based on a >> mathematical sequence, like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and syntax for >> effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a random noun >> wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for example. It?s >> Oulipo, baby.? >>? >> Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System? >> The poem is stripped down to a point that what words remain, as clear as >> they are, invite or allow many different ways of fleshing out the poem in >> reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and now many people are now going to >> see many different things through it. The paradox of description: Too >> much and too detailed in description and the reader?s mind is not be >> given free rein to explore in and around what has been expressed, gets >> too lazy to tease out nuances. Too little descriptive guidance and all >> control of the reader?s experience and taking from the poem is >> surrendered, whether intentionally or unintentionally.? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 16:31:27 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:31:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) In-Reply-To: <8C9C455A4FE73F0-A10-2267@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C455A4FE73F0-A10-2267@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E99E1F.1020506@opus40.org> I'm post it to mine, too. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Anny, you're welcome to use but let me clean up the typos and unclear > parts. It was written quickly out > some thoughts provoked by this topic. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 3:19 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) > > I'm sending it to my blog! James let me know if you do not wish it there. > > From: "TheOldMole" > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:10 PM > > > I'm saving this one. > > > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> The Poem May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because... > >> > >> Purposeful Evasion of Understanding > >> The poem was not meant to be clear or understood in any > conventional >> sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something > that can?t be parsed >> or comprehended. It may have been out of fear > that the reader would think >> the poet thin of mind, or it may be > just the poet resists the idea that >> poems should be knowable in a > conventional sense. > >> > >> It's All There With Enough Time, Effort, And The Will > >> It may take you several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, > but >> nothing in the poem is not stated or misexpressed in a way that > it can >> never be comprehended or experienced fully. You might need a > bigger >> dictionary or full encyclopedia set, or the ability to > develop the >> emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can get > there from here, >> eventually. > >> > >> Merely Readerly Failure > >> The poem is reasonably clear and understandable if the various > references >> and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and > grasped. But they >> can ?t be: (a) Because you have different > knowledge set or (b) you have a >> fairly low level of erudition. The > latter is not elitism; it?s a fact >> that more you?ve read and > studied, the more you?re likely to understand. >> Some poets prefer to > throw a wide net; others are perfectly happy that >> only readers of a > certain level of acumen will gain entry to the poem?s >> fullest sense. > >> > >> The Translation or Transference Problem > >> The poem was perfectly clear in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, > most >> readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference > problem ocurred: >> words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s > inability to shape/make the >> kinds of sentences and language > elements that would make the poem >> understandable across a wide & > diverse group of readers. > >> > >> Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear > >> Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: The world is chaotic, life is > >> disorderly and imperfectly understood by the human mind, therefore > the >> poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw > puzzle >> spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it > together. > >> > >> Pushing the Language To Its Limits > >> With a vast vocabulary and syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses > the >> language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to > make sense >> of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is > pushing the >> envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard > Manley Hopkins. Or the >> way Wallace Stevens feels his way through a > poem by thinking based more >> on sound than sense. Ordinary words can > be apt neologisms in hands of >> certain poets. Gertrude Stein > pressing ordinary rhetoric into the >> ?surrhetorical?. > >> > >> The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive > >> The aphoristic and imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences > and >> phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are content > to string >> these elements together or splatter them about a page and > just let them >> do what they may in the mind of the reader. Sometimes > it?s just enjoyable >> to cut things up, the collage, the > kaleidoscopic, the slamdance of words >> and syllables, to break > sentences unexpectedly, to leave the reader >> hanging on ledge of > words, to practice legerdemain in language. > >> > >> It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated > >> The difficulty/obscurity of the subject matter or psychological > state >> that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. The > writer >> intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps no > writer will >> ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence of it > in words. The >> experience is real but ineffable. The emotionally > driven lyric flight, or >> the speaker so surrendering to a language > rending state that may verge on >> glossalalia, hysteria, or a > speaking in tongues. Or, in fact, the subject >> matter is too great > in scope and too multi-faceted or too deeply layered >> to ever be > captured in language or in the space of a single poem or even >> a > sequence of poems. Think of thee poem of America that Whitman almost > >> managed to write. > >> > >> One or More Possible Readings > >> The poem is composed in such a way that perfectly good readers will > come >> away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about > or trying to >> getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent > valid >> interpretations and experiences of the poem. The composition > may have >> been intentionally constructed to expose multiple facets > and >> interpretative aspects. Or it just came out that way. Once the > poem >> enters the public domain, whether the poet intended this is > somewhat >> beside the point; though the poet has a right to be > disappointed if >> his/her preferred interpretation/experience wasn?t > carried over to the >> reader (which is related to > translation/transference problem). > >> > >> Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language > >> The poem is meant to be an experience of perception, rather than to > be >> understood. The experience being on the level of the materiality > of >> language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, etc., being > foregrounded) >> and consciously not employing the communicative > elements of language >> offers. Sound poetry, pure poetry, certain > forms of language poetry. Of >> course, many readers may experience it > in many ways, which is generally >> not seen as a deficiency but as > opportunity. > >> > >> It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist > >> The poem intentionally takes the reader into a place where things > aren?t >> clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader > some new and >> intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant > collocations of things >> and weird imagery. It can be the dream poem > rendered exactly as >> remembered stream-of-consciousness dictated. > Or, as in dadaism, the >> wholesale rejection of poetry as anything > more than a conceptual art or a >> socio-political act that should > push, if not shove, the reader out of >> his/her complacency and > literary comfort zone. > >> Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule > >> The poem is using a particular pattern or formal construct for its > >> structure. The form is paramount, not the content. Poems based on a > >> mathematical sequence, like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and > syntax for >> effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a > random noun >> wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for > example. It?s >> Oulipo, baby. > >> > >> Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System > >> The poem is stripped down to a point that what words remain, as > clear as >> they are, invite or allow many different ways of fleshing > out the poem in >> reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and now many > people are now going to >> see many different things through it. The > paradox of description: Too >> much and too detailed in description > and the reader?s mind is not be >> given free rein to explore in and > around what has been expressed, gets >> too lazy to tease out nuances. > Too little descriptive guidance and all >> control of the reader?s > experience and taking from the poem is >> surrendered, whether > intentionally or unintentionally. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 13 16:35:41 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:35:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY><8C9C455A4FE73F0-A10-2267@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> <46E99E1F.1020506@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00d501c7f645$a759e050$fbaa3852@ANNY> your copyin' me your copin me I ain't seen no typos it's already on but will willingly barter for better copy From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:31 PM > I'm post it to mine, too. > > jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> Anny, you're welcome to use but let me clean up the typos and unclear >> parts. It was written quickly out >> some thoughts provoked by this topic. >> Finnegan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anny Ballardini >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >> Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 3:19 pm >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) >> >> I'm sending it to my blog! James let me know if you do not wish it there. >> From: "TheOldMole" > >> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:10 PM >> > I'm saving this one. jforjames at aol.com >> > wrote: >> >> The Poem May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because... Purposeful >> >> Evasion of Understanding The poem was not meant to be clear or >> >> understood in any >> conventional >> sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something that >> can?t be parsed >> or comprehended. It may have been out of fear that the >> reader would think >> the poet thin of mind, or it may be just the poet >> resists the idea that >> poems should be knowable in a conventional >> sense. >> >> >> >> It's All There With Enough Time, Effort, And The Will It may take you >> >> several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, >> but >> nothing in the poem is not stated or misexpressed in a way that it >> can >> never be comprehended or experienced fully. You might need a >> bigger >> dictionary or full encyclopedia set, or the ability to develop >> the >> emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can get there from >> here, >> eventually. >> >> >> >> Merely Readerly Failure The poem is reasonably clear and >> >> understandable if the various >> references >> and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and >> grasped. But they >> can ?t be: (a) Because you have different knowledge >> set or (b) you have a >> fairly low level of erudition. The latter is not >> elitism; it?s a fact >> that more you?ve read and studied, the more you?re >> likely to understand. >> Some poets prefer to throw a wide net; others >> are perfectly happy that >> only readers of a certain level of acumen >> will gain entry to the poem?s >> fullest sense. >> >> >> >> The Translation or Transference Problem The poem was perfectly clear >> >> in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, >> most >> readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference problem >> ocurred: >> words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s inability to >> shape/make the >> kinds of sentences and language elements that would >> make the poem >> understandable across a wide & diverse group of readers. >> >> >> >> Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: The >> >> world is chaotic, life is disorderly and imperfectly understood by the >> >> human mind, therefore >> the >> poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw puzzle >> >> spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it together. >> >> >> >> Pushing the Language To Its Limits With a vast vocabulary and >> >> syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses >> the >> language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to make >> sense >> of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is pushing >> the >> envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard Manley Hopkins. >> Or the >> way Wallace Stevens feels his way through a poem by thinking >> based more >> on sound than sense. Ordinary words can be apt neologisms >> in hands of >> certain poets. Gertrude Stein pressing ordinary rhetoric >> into the >> ?surrhetorical?. >> >> >> >> The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive The aphoristic and >> >> imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences >> and >> phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are content to >> string >> these elements together or splatter them about a page and just >> let them >> do what they may in the mind of the reader. Sometimes it?s >> just enjoyable >> to cut things up, the collage, the kaleidoscopic, the >> slamdance of words >> and syllables, to break sentences unexpectedly, to >> leave the reader >> hanging on ledge of words, to practice legerdemain in >> language. >> >> >> >> It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated The difficulty/obscurity of the >> >> subject matter or psychological >> state >> that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. The >> writer >> intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps no >> writer will >> ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence of it in >> words. The >> experience is real but ineffable. The emotionally driven >> lyric flight, or >> the speaker so surrendering to a language rending >> state that may verge on >> glossalalia, hysteria, or a speaking in >> tongues. Or, in fact, the subject >> matter is too great in scope and too >> multi-faceted or too deeply layered >> to ever be captured in language or >> in the space of a single poem or even >> a sequence of poems. Think of >> thee poem of America that Whitman almost >> >> managed to write. One or More Possible Readings The poem is composed >> >> in such a way that perfectly good readers will >> come >> away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about or >> trying to >> getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent valid >> >> interpretations and experiences of the poem. The composition may have >> >> been intentionally constructed to expose multiple facets and >> >> interpretative aspects. Or it just came out that way. Once the poem >> >> enters the public domain, whether the poet intended this is somewhat >> >> beside the point; though the poet has a right to be disappointed if >> >> his/her preferred interpretation/experience wasn?t carried over to the >> >> reader (which is related to translation/transference problem). >> >> >> >> Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language The poem is meant to >> >> be an experience of perception, rather than to >> be >> understood. The experience being on the level of the materiality of >> >> language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, etc., being >> foregrounded) >> and consciously not employing the communicative elements >> of language >> offers. Sound poetry, pure poetry, certain forms of >> language poetry. Of >> course, many readers may experience it in many >> ways, which is generally >> not seen as a deficiency but as opportunity. >> >> >> >> It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist The poem intentionally takes the >> >> reader into a place where things >> aren?t >> clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader some >> new and >> intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant >> collocations of things >> and weird imagery. It can be the dream poem >> rendered exactly as >> remembered stream-of-consciousness dictated. Or, >> as in dadaism, the >> wholesale rejection of poetry as anything more than >> a conceptual art or a >> socio-political act that should push, if not >> shove, the reader out of >> his/her complacency and literary comfort >> zone. >> >> Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule The poem is using a >> >> particular pattern or formal construct for its structure. The form is >> >> paramount, not the content. Poems based on a mathematical sequence, >> >> like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and >> syntax for >> effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a >> random noun >> wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for >> example. It?s >> Oulipo, baby. >> >> >> >> Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System The poem is stripped down to a >> >> point that what words remain, as >> clear as >> they are, invite or allow many different ways of fleshing out >> the poem in >> reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and now many people >> are now going to >> see many different things through it. The paradox of >> description: Too >> much and too detailed in description and the reader?s >> mind is not be >> given free rein to explore in and around what has been >> expressed, gets >> too lazy to tease out nuances. Too little descriptive >> guidance and all >> control of the reader?s experience and taking from >> the poem is >> surrendered, whether intentionally or unintentionally. >> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail >> ! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 13 17:06:39 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:06:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Register for AWP's 2008 Conference Today!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9C4611CEEF0F7-15C-299A@webmail-md01.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: AWP Conference To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:56 am Subject: Register for AWP's 2008 Conference Today!! Dear Friend, AWP's 2008 Conference Registration is now open, and we hope that you'll take dvantage of our discounted early-bird registration rates. AWP's 2008 Conference will take place in New York City, January 30?February , 2008, at the Hilton New York and Sheraton New York Hotel and Towers. Our 008 Conference promises to be our best yet, with presentations and readings rom John Irving, Edwidge Danticat, Louise Gl?ck, Yusef Komunyakaa, Robert insky, Joyce Carol Oates, Sonia Sanchez, Frank McCourt, and many, many ore. To see a full list of AWP's featured presentations, please visit us nline: . The deadline to register at AWP?s discounted early-bird registration rates s October 31, 2007. To purchase your discounted registration today, visit s online: Individuals registering at the student rate must be prepared to show a valid tudent ID to receive their student registration badge. If you have already registered, thank you! HOTEL AND TRAVEL e pride ourselves on offering the best hotel rates for our Conference ttendees. AWP's Conference hotels typically sell out of rooms months in dvance; so reserve your room soon to avoid disappointment. For the most p-to-date hotel and travel information, please visit us online, where you ay make your hotel reservations and find out about discounted travel to New ork: If you have any questions, please let us know. We look forward to seeing you n New York! AWP Conference Services 03.993.4301/703.993.4317 http://www.awpwriter.org/conference/2008awpconf.php> ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 13 17:35:54 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:35:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) In-Reply-To: <00d501c7f645$a759e050$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY><8C9C455A4FE73F0-A10-2267@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> <46E99E1F.1020506@opus40.org> <00d501c7f645$a759e050$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E9AD3A.30602@opus40.org> Who better to copy? Anny Ballardini wrote: > your copyin' me your copin me > I ain't seen no typos > it's already on but will willingly barter for better copy > > From: "TheOldMole" > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:31 PM > > >> I'm post it to mine, too. >> >> jforjames at aol.com wrote: >>> >>> Anny, you're welcome to use but let me clean up the typos and >>> unclear parts. It was written quickly out >>> some thoughts provoked by this topic. >>> Finnegan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anny Ballardini >>> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >>> Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 3:19 pm >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Some Characteristics of Unclarity (long) >>> >>> I'm sending it to my blog! James let me know if you do not wish it >>> there. From: "TheOldMole" >> > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 >>> 9:10 PM >>> > I'm saving this one. jforjames at aol.com >>> > wrote: >>> >> The Poem May Be Unclear/Difficult/Obscure Because... Purposeful >>> >> Evasion of Understanding The poem was not meant to be clear or >> >>> understood in any >>> conventional >> sense. Purposefully the poet has crafted something >>> that can?t be parsed >> or comprehended. It may have been out of >>> fear that the reader would think >> the poet thin of mind, or it may >>> be just the poet resists the idea that >> poems should be knowable >>> in a conventional sense. >>> >> >>> >> It's All There With Enough Time, Effort, And The Will It may take >>> you >> several hours, days or weeks, years or a lifetime, >>> but >> nothing in the poem is not stated or misexpressed in a way >>> that it can >> never be comprehended or experienced fully. You might >>> need a bigger >> dictionary or full encyclopedia set, or the ability >>> to develop the >> emotional perspicacity of a Collette, but you can >>> get there from here, >> eventually. >>> >> >>> >> Merely Readerly Failure The poem is reasonably clear and >> >>> understandable if the various >>> references >> and allusions made in the poem can be recognized and >>> grasped. But they >> can ?t be: (a) Because you have different >>> knowledge set or (b) you have a >> fairly low level of erudition. >>> The latter is not elitism; it?s a fact >> that more you?ve read and >>> studied, the more you?re likely to understand. >> Some poets prefer >>> to throw a wide net; others are perfectly happy that >> only readers >>> of a certain level of acumen will gain entry to the poem?s >> >>> fullest sense. >>> >> >>> >> The Translation or Transference Problem The poem was perfectly >>> clear >> in the poet?s mind, but, as rendered, >>> most >> readers can?t understand it. A translation/transference >>> problem ocurred: >> words as ?shabby equipment?, or the author?s >>> inability to shape/make the >> kinds of sentences and language >>> elements that would make the poem >> understandable across a wide & >>> diverse group of readers. >>> >> >>> >> Mimesis Doesn?t Mean Clear Mimesis of the chaotic or confused: >>> The >> world is chaotic, life is disorderly and imperfectly >>> understood by the >> human mind, therefore >>> the >> poem can must mirror the disorder and the chaos. The jigsaw >>> puzzle >> spilled, with no attempt made to organize and piece it >>> together. >>> >> >>> >> Pushing the Language To Its Limits With a vast vocabulary and >> >>> syntactical inventiveness, the poet uses >>> the >> language in a way that is often hard to follow, to parse, to >>> make sense >> of. Maybe the poet has pulled out all the stops or is >>> pushing the >> envelope, so to speak. Think Hart Crane or Gerard >>> Manley Hopkins. Or the >> way Wallace Stevens feels his way through >>> a poem by thinking based more >> on sound than sense. Ordinary words >>> can be apt neologisms in hands of >> certain poets. Gertrude Stein >>> pressing ordinary rhetoric into the >> ?surrhetorical?. >>> >> >>> >> The Attraction of The Fragmentary And Disruptive The aphoristic >>> and >> imagistic attractiveness of certain sentences >>> and >> phrases are undeniable. So much so that some poets are >>> content to string >> these elements together or splatter them about >>> a page and just let them >> do what they may in the mind of the >>> reader. Sometimes it?s just enjoyable >> to cut things up, the >>> collage, the kaleidoscopic, the slamdance of words >> and syllables, >>> to break sentences unexpectedly, to leave the reader >> hanging on >>> ledge of words, to practice legerdemain in language. >>> >> >>> >> It?s Ineffable or Just Too Complicated The difficulty/obscurity >>> of the >> subject matter or psychological >>> state >> that impelled the poem makes the poem difficult/obscure. >>> The writer >> intended to be clearer but couldn?t manage and perhaps >>> no writer will >> ever be capable of capturing the meaning/essence >>> of it in words. The >> experience is real but ineffable. The >>> emotionally driven lyric flight, or >> the speaker so surrendering >>> to a language rending state that may verge on >> glossalalia, >>> hysteria, or a speaking in tongues. Or, in fact, the subject >> >>> matter is too great in scope and too multi-faceted or too deeply >>> layered >> to ever be captured in language or in the space of a >>> single poem or even >> a sequence of poems. Think of thee poem of >>> America that Whitman almost >>> >> managed to write. One or More Possible Readings The poem is >>> composed >> in such a way that perfectly good readers will >>> come >> away with vastly divergent notions of what the poem is about >>> or trying to >> getting at. No one reading is correct; all represent >>> valid >> interpretations and experiences of the poem. The >>> composition may have >> been intentionally constructed to expose >>> multiple facets and >> interpretative aspects. Or it just came out >>> that way. Once the poem >> enters the public domain, whether the >>> poet intended this is somewhat >> beside the point; though the poet >>> has a right to be disappointed if >> his/her preferred >>> interpretation/experience wasn?t carried over to the >> reader >>> (which is related to translation/transference problem). >>> >> >>> >> Calling Attention To The Materiality of Language The poem is >>> meant to >> be an experience of perception, rather than to >>> be >> understood. The experience being on the level of the >>> materiality of >> language (sound, alphabetic construct, shape, >>> etc., being foregrounded) >> and consciously not employing the >>> communicative elements of language >> offers. Sound poetry, pure >>> poetry, certain forms of language poetry. Of >> course, many readers >>> may experience it in many ways, which is generally >> not seen as a >>> deficiency but as opportunity. >>> >> >>> >> It?s Surrealist, Fantastic or Dadaist The poem intentionally >>> takes the >> reader into a place where things >>> aren?t >> clear in any ordinary sense, in order to give the reader >>> some new and >> intriguing experience. Often employing extravagant >>> collocations of things >> and weird imagery. It can be the dream >>> poem rendered exactly as >> remembered stream-of-consciousness >>> dictated. Or, as in dadaism, the >> wholesale rejection of poetry as >>> anything more than a conceptual art or a >> socio-political act that >>> should push, if not shove, the reader out of >> his/her complacency >>> and literary comfort zone. >>> >> Strictly Experimental As To Form or Rule The poem is using a >> >>> particular pattern or formal construct for its structure. The form >>> is >> paramount, not the content. Poems based on a mathematical >>> sequence, >> like a Fibonacci. Ignoring grammar and >>> syntax for >> effect. Or language games: Purposefully substituting a >>> random noun >> wherever the verb is supposed go in the sentence, for >>> example. It?s >> Oulipo, baby. >>> >> >>> >> Too Spare And It Becomes An Open System The poem is stripped down >>> to a >> point that what words remain, as >>> clear as >> they are, invite or allow many different ways of >>> fleshing out the poem in >> reader?s mind. Or the poem is a pane and >>> now many people are now going to >> see many different things >>> through it. The paradox of description: Too >> much and too detailed >>> in description and the reader?s mind is not be >> given free rein to >>> explore in and around what has been expressed, gets >> too lazy to >>> tease out nuances. Too little descriptive guidance and all >> >>> control of the reader?s experience and taking from the poem is >> >>> surrendered, whether intentionally or unintentionally. >>> _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing >>> list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail >>> ! >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 13 20:08:15 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:08:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins on clarity, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY><8C9C424669B701D-DEC- B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46E9D0EF.9060105@nut-n-but.net> > Was anyone else surprised by Collins's prediction of the single > current poet most likely to be considered great by future eras? > I haven't read the full interview yet, but probably will I got a laugh out of Collins's answer. I think Merwin no longer visible--except, of course, to academics and awards-bestowers. I tend to wonder if ANY current poet Collins is familiar with will be considered great by future eras. Wilbur? I'm not sure. I like his work but think it may not be sufficiently different from the work of many before him to make future critics rate him great. Maybe Ashbery, simply as representative of one strand of contemporary poetry--the way Ginsberg will probably last as the representative of beat poetry (though I doubt that he'll achieve higher standing that, say, Carl Sandburg now has). The poets of today certified by the poetry establishment strike me as similar to the mix of representational and impressionist painters who dominated American painting during the first half of the last century. The parallel breaks down when we get to the abstract-expressionists for many reasons, a main one being that universities can't regiment painting quite as easily as they can poetry. Another being that one or two buyers can make a socio-economic success of a painter few can appreciate, but a poet few can appreciate needs a lot more buyers to get anywhere socio-economically. Much more to it, but that's all I'm up to considering right now. --Bob G. > Whitney: . . . Do you think *that you*r poems will last? Do you care? > > Collins: There's just no telling. I don't know. I always think [W. S.] > Merwin's poems will last of anyone writing today. If I had to bet on > posterity I would bet Merwin. My poems could easily evaporate. So I > don't know. If you find yourself as a writer thinking about posterity > you should probably go out for a brisk walk or something. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Sep 13, 2007, at 8:52 AM, jforjames at aol.com > wrote: > >> Anny, by going after Collins' remark I hope I didn't imply that I was >> against clarity or coherence. I'm not. Not in poetry or any other >> sphere...esp. the philosophical. I was irked that Collins seemed to >> indicate that the great strength of his poetry is clarity and that >> his work was somehow a corrective to the wayward slide in poetry >> toward the difficult and obscure. You only have to read the journals >> and new books coming out to see that there is plenty of >> fragmentary/disjunctive/vague poetry being produced. It's the fashion >> among many in post-avant camp. At the same time there is, and has >> been, much good poetry being produced that is as clear as Collins. >> Collins' strengths, and his evident success in attracting a >> large readership and even some new converts to poetry, lie in >> features other than clarity. >> Finnegan >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 13 20:24:53 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:24:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Varieties of Poetry Engagents In-Reply-To: <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY> References: <002601c7f605$35ddb4a0$fbaa3852@ANNY> <8C9C424669B701D-DEC-B80@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <8C9C43C4B4A2649-DEC-17D6@mblk-r39.sysops.aol.com> <46E98B14.3060802@opus40.org> <00ba01c7f63b$0dfaebc0$fbaa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46E9D4D5.6030608@nut-n-but.net> From my Blog Entry today: "All I'm up to for this entry is a little taxonomy of poetry engagents (an "engagent" being not necessarily only a reader of poetry but a sometime viewer or perceiver in some other way of it): "Every poetry engagent is either independent or servile; that is, he either engages poetry or poetry criticism because he enjoys it or he engages because some mentor (or the equivalent, like an influential magazine) has told him to, or for careerist or statooznikal (to gain status with some in-group) reasons. "Every poetry engagent a direct engagent of poetry, an indirect engagent of poetry, or a double engagent of poetry. The direct engagent of poetry gets significantly involved in poetry but reads little or no commentary on poetry; the indirect engagent of poetry reads a good deal of commentary on poetry but gets involved with little or no poetry. The double engagent of poetry involves himself with significant amounts of both. (The independent double engagent of poetry actually *relishes* both!) "Every poetry engagent is super-exploratory, exploratory, semi-exploratory or unexploratory, which is to say he is so interested in it or commentary on it that he explores all known varieties of it and/or commentary on it; or he explores much more than a small patch of poetry and/or commentary on poetry; or he stays in Wilshberia or some other constricted precinct of poetry but tries his best to keep up with everything that's going on in it; or, finally, he engages only some narrow variety, or even small segment of a single variety of poetry and/or poetry commentary. "I consider myself an independent, exploratory double poetry engagent. I think the huge majority of the tiny percentage of Americans who have any interest in serious poetry are servile, semi-exploratory direct engagents of it. I further believe that they are probably outnumbered by those who read (and that's all they can do) pop poetry--who are independent, semi-exploratory direct poetry engagents." --Bob G. From amparker at davidson.edu Thu Sep 13 20:20:58 2007 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:20:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] collins & posterity Message-ID: Hey, folks, thanks for the great chat about Collins 'n his remarks. I'm enjoying your comments. My concern is this: if you're not *risking* writing for posterity, egomania notwithstanding, are you thus aiming for mediocrity, oh so easy a target? Safety last, I tell my students. - AMP From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 14 07:48:35 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] obscurities In-Reply-To: <200709132201.l8DM1jHL004884@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <801890.56313.qm@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Very nice, Jim. A nice antidote to the usual "word soup" pronouncements. For the record I've been becoming more and more wary of this old take on the cubists as representing a number of simultaneous perspectives. I've even seen it in Barthes. It's everywhere, and it's just about the only thing anyone seems to say about cubism anymore. A shame, isn't it? Or maybe I missed a good book on the subject or something. Accordingly or on a somehow related note, I might add to Jim's list poems that "seem" clear, but then you find out -- by discovering some allusion or some ambiguity -- that they are, in fact, complicated and/or "obscure". Looking forward to the Brooklyn Book Fair.... Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Sep 14 08:42:32 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:42:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the Poets' Corner Message-ID: <001301c7f6cc$b8895e00$66ed064f@ANNY> The present update of the Poets' Corner is in memoriam of Evelyn Posamentier's grandmother, on her father's side, born on this day. Peter Ciccariello http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=252 Nicholas Manning http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=253 Bill Lavender http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=254 Jesse Glass http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=255 Katherine Durham Oldmixon http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=256 Christina Vega-Westhoff http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=257 S?amas Cain http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=258 M?rton Kopp?ny http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=259 Joe Green http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=260 Evelyn Posamentier http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=261 New poems by already featured Poets: Aldo Tambellini Black Painting Series - 1 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1976 Black Painting Series - 2 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1977 Black Painting Series - 3 http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1978 Dennis Barone Percorso or the Rook, the Rampant Lion and the Crown http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1981 Tad Richards' Episodes continue with situations http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 Barry Alpert A VALPARAISO [via Joris Ivens, Chris Marker, & P. Guzman] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2030 AIMLESS WALK (1930) [via Alexandr Hackenschmied] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2031 BELLE TOUJOURS [via Manoel de Oliveira] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2032 THE BLOOD [via Pedro Costa] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2033 BENOIT JACQUOT DIT http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2034 THE FALSE SERVANT [via Benoit Jacquot & Pierre de Marivaux] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2035 MARIANNE [via Benoit Jacquot & Pierre de Marivaux] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2036 MUSICIAN KILLER [via Benoit Jacquot & F. Dostoyevsky] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2037 TOSCA [via Benoit Jacquot] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2038 ELVIRE JOUVET 40 [via Benoit Jacquot] http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2039 James Cervantes from Mr. Bondo's Unshared Life http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2064 Under Poets on Poets: Tran Da Tu introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=75 Toy for Future Children http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=212 Fragmented War http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=213 So Long Tuong http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=214 Standing http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=215 Writing Poetry Tirelessly http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=216 Love Tokens http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=217 The complete version of EURIPIDES' HIPPOLYTOS: a modern performance version by Jon Corelis http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=219 Jon Corelis, unlike Pirandello, is looking for an acting company to stage his wonderful translated work. And finally David Howard's poetry will soon be set into music by an Italian composer: Claudio Vaira who particularly liked my translated poem: Rivisitando la piazza della chiesa _Revisiting Church Square by comparing Howard's poetry to Quasimodo's. For the occasion I translated several other poems selected by David Howard and collected them under the title: Poems for Claudio Vaira http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=220 and Part II http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=221 For the drafting of my lists I follow the order by which Poets send me their poems, and I thank every one for having accepted my invitation, as I said on various occasions, I feel as if it was my personal privilege to receive your contributions. Special thanks to Vanni and his team, especially to Eleonora, Massimo and Andrea, webmasters & co. With my best wishes for a wonderful and fruitful fall, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 14 15:43:50 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:43:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... Message-ID: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Dennis Barone and I were talking today about?how one tries to?define poetry, the difficulty and futility of even trying. I was saying to him that there are?two basic categories of definitions... 1) The short, poetic and pithy ones which are memorable but not very emcompassing. 2) The long and explanatory ones that still fail to map the ambit of the art while dragging their chain of prose. Anyway this my last humble attempt to define what poetry is: Words organized for affect; often employing the effects of sound, imagery and metaphor through compressed expressions marked by their nuance or unusual perspective. It sort falls in the second category...but the semi-colon gives the first part some aphoristic punch, and what follows begins to bear the affect-effects thought echo. So it pleased me, as far it goes. But my only real insight into the matter is this: One definition of poetry is one?s defense of poetry. -&- Let your next poem openly refute your last definition of poetry. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 14 17:12:33 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:12:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> It's not hard to define poetry as easily as one can define a housecat; what is hard is getting those who consider poetry sacred to accept any definition of it--just as those who consider life sacred will disdain any attempt to define a housecat. Intellectual nihilists, who disdain all definitions of anything because no definition can be perfect will also always be with us. --Bob jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Dennis Barone and I were talking today about how one tries to define > poetry, the difficulty > and futility of even trying. I was saying to him that there are two > basic categories of > definitions... > 1) The short, poetic and pithy ones which are memorable but not very > emcompassing. > 2) The long and explanatory ones that still fail to map the ambit of > the art while dragging their chain > of prose. > > Anyway this my last humble attempt to define what poetry is: > > Words organized for affect; often employing the effects of sound, > imagery and metaphor > through compressed expressions marked by their nuance or unusual > perspective. > > It sort falls in the second category...but the semi-colon gives the > first part some aphoristic > punch, and what follows begins to bear the affect-effects thought > echo. So it pleased me, > as far it goes. But my only real insight into the matter is this: > > One definition of poetry is one?s defense of poetry. > -&- > Let your next poem openly refute your last definition of poetry. > > > > Finnegan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 14 16:38:31 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:38:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> References: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8C9C52658E27B14-3F8-238A@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> define a housecat A semi-animate piece of furniture. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 5:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... It's not hard to define poetry as easily as one can define a housecat; what is hard is getting those who consider poetry sacred to accept any definition of it--just as those who consider life sacred will disdain any attempt to define a housecat.? Intellectual nihilists, who disdain all definitions of anything because no definition can be perfect will also always be with us. --Bob jforjames at aol.com wrote: Dennis Barone and I were talking today about?how one tries to?define poetry, the difficulty and futility of even trying. I was saying to him that there are?two basic categories of definitions... 1) The short, poetic and pithy ones which are memorable but not very emcompassing. 2) The long and explanatory ones that still fail to map the ambit of the art while dragging their chain of prose. Anyway this my last humble attempt to define what poetry is: Words organized for affect; often employing the effects of sound, imagery and metaphor through compressed expressions marked by their nuance or unusual perspective. It sort falls in the second category...but the semi-colon gives the first part some aphoristic punch, and what follows begins to bear the affect-effects thought echo. So it pleased me, as far it goes. But my only real insight into the matter is this: One definition of poetry is one?s defense of poetry. -&- Let your next poem openly refute your last definition of poetry. Finnegan Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Sep 14 17:18:29 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:18:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... References: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com><46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> <8C9C52658E27B14-3F8-238A@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <03cc01c7f714$cc26a600$88af3852@ANNY> if castrated otherwise a wild flying tearing piece hungry ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... define a housecat A semi-animate piece of furniture. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 14 18:25:19 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:25:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> References: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8C9C53544713164-B70-25CA@webmail-mf19.sysops.aol.com> Bob, I disagree with you about?it not being hard to define poetry. I've collected hundreds of serious attempts and many that were clearly off-the-cuff. Many are attractive on some or another count or aspect. But few get at it all. It's like defining any large and unwieldy subject, it can't be done without simplifications that will damage, or aggrandizements that gloss over. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 5:12 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... It's not hard to define poetry as easily as one can define a housecat; what is hard is getting those who consider poetry sacred to accept any definition of it--just as those who consider life sacred will disdain any attempt to define a housecat.? Intellectual nihilists, who disdain all definitions of anything because no definition can be perfect will also always be with us. --Bob jforjames at aol.com wrote: Dennis Barone and I were talking today about?how one tries to?define poetry, the difficulty and futility of even trying. I was saying to him that there are?two basic categories of definitions... 1) The short, poetic and pithy ones which are memorable but not very emcompassing. 2) The long and explanatory ones that still fail to map the ambit of the art while dragging their chain of prose. Anyway this my last humble attempt to define what poetry is: Words organized for affect; often employing the effects of sound, imagery and metaphor through compressed expressions marked by their nuance or unusual perspective. It sort falls in the second category...but the semi-colon gives the first part some aphoristic punch, and what follows begins to bear the affect-effects thought echo. So it pleased me, as far it goes. But my only real insight into the matter is this: One definition of poetry is one?s defense of poetry. -&- Let your next poem openly refute your last definition of poetry. Finnegan Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 14 21:17:04 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:17:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <8C9C53544713164-B70-25CA@webmail-mf19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com><46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> <8C9C53544713164-B70-25CA@webmail-mf19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46EB3290.9060900@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Bob, I disagree with you about it not being hard to define poetry. > I've collected hundreds of serious attempts and many that were clearly > off-the-cuff. Many are attractive on some or another count or aspect. > But few get at it all. It's like defining any large and unwieldy > subject, it can't be done without simplifications that will damage, or > aggrandizements that gloss over. > > Finnegan > All I can say back, Jim, is that I am analytical, you not. I've seen a good many of the usually interesting texts you've come across that you feel try to to define poetry but which seem to me only attempts to say something clever about it. I feel that in what you say here you're with the intellectual nihilists. What is not large and unwieldy, considered in detail? I say poetry is (1) words; (2) literature (or words and, sometimes, other matter, that seem primarily to be trying to provide beauty to those experiencing it in the view of a consensus of informed observers); (3) texts containing a significant number of flow-breaks compared to prose literature. Beauty is that which causes aesthetic pleasure--which is fairly complex but is roughly some combination of sensual, narrative, people-related and ideational pleasure. with the first dominant (and its effects will, I'm certain, someday be detected in the brain); flow-breaks are line-breaks and similar pauses in the flow of the text's story or the equivalent. Anyone can nitpick this but I doubt that there is more than one text in ten million most people would consider a poem that my definition would disqualify as poetry, or one text in ten million that most people would not consider a poem that they could find a better category for than what I define as poetry. Ask yourself why there's so little controversy about what a meal is but so much about what a poem is. One is all kinds of stuff entering the mouth, the other words, sometimes accompanied by other matter, entering (mainly) the eyes. Defining music, at least for those sophisticated enough not to need to reject anything auditory that they don't like as music, is not very controversial, either, so far as I know. (It's organized non-utilitarian sounds.) I really think that the only genuine problem with defining poetry is that the priesthood that rules it fears they can only flourish in a climate of ignorance and babble, so refuses to accept analysis of it. --Bob From jfq at myuw.net Fri Sep 14 20:24:17 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <46EB3290.9060900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: I agree that it's as easy to define a poem as it is to define a meal. It only appears to become difficult when you start trying to express those things that aren't really expressible in plain language. The problem is that people often try to express publicly things for which there are no public criteria for the meaningfulness of. I disagree that the effects of aesthetic experience will be detectable in the brain. I'm sure though that we will some day find analogs of the aesthetic experience in the brain just like we have with motor function and whatnot. The aesthetic experience is private and the only ground we have for believing other people have them is that other people often report having them in relation to the same things that make us have them. you can't go any deeper than that, grammar won't support it. On Fri, 14 Sep 2007, Bob Grumman wrote: > jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> Bob, I disagree with you about it not being hard to define poetry. I've >> collected hundreds of serious attempts and many that were clearly >> off-the-cuff. Many are attractive on some or another count or aspect. But >> few get at it all. It's like defining any large and unwieldy subject, it >> can't be done without simplifications that will damage, or aggrandizements >> that gloss over. >> Finnegan >> > All I can say back, Jim, is that I am analytical, you not. I've seen a good > many of the usually interesting texts you've come across that you feel try to > to define poetry but which seem to me only attempts to say something clever > about it. I feel that in what you say here you're with the intellectual > nihilists. What is not large and unwieldy, considered in detail? I say poetry > is (1) words; (2) literature (or words and, sometimes, other matter, that seem > primarily to be trying to provide beauty to those experiencing it in the view > of a consensus of informed observers); (3) texts containing a significant > number of flow-breaks compared to prose literature. Beauty is that which > causes aesthetic pleasure--which is fairly complex but is roughly some > combination of sensual, narrative, people-related and ideational pleasure. with > the first dominant (and its effects will, I'm certain, someday be detected in > the brain); flow-breaks are line-breaks and similar pauses in the flow of the > text's story or the equivalent. > > Anyone can nitpick this but I doubt that there is more than one text in ten > million most people would consider a poem that my definition would disqualify > as poetry, or one text in ten million that most people would not consider a > poem that they could find a better category for than what I define as poetry. > > Ask yourself why there's so little controversy about what a meal is but so much > about what a poem is. One is all kinds of stuff entering the mouth, the other > words, sometimes accompanied by other matter, entering (mainly) the eyes. > Defining music, at least for those sophisticated enough not to need to reject > anything auditory that they don't like as music, is not very controversial, > either, so far as I know. (It's organized non-utilitarian sounds.) I really > think that the only genuine problem with defining poetry is that the priesthood > that rules it fears they can only flourish in a climate of ignorance and > babble, so refuses to accept analysis of it. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Sep 14 23:05:19 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:05:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46EB4BEF.4030103@nut-n-but.net> > I agree that it's as easy to define a poem as it is to define a meal. > It only appears to become difficult when you start trying to express > those things that aren't really expressible in plain language. The > problem is that people often try to express publicly things for which > there are no public criteria for the meaningfulness of. I disagree > that the effects of aesthetic experience will be detectable in the > brain. I'm sure though that we will some day find analogs of the > aesthetic experience in the brain just like we have with motor > function and whatnot. The aesthetic experience is private and the only > ground we have for believing other people have them is that other > people often report having them in relation to the same things that > make us have them. you can't go any deeper than that, grammar won't > support it. > > If I'm following you correctly, I agree that actual consciousness (like matter/energy) cannot be defined, just labeled. So a person's awareness or internal experience of beauty or anything else is outside anything my theory of psychology can deal with. But I was referring to what you call (I assume) the analogs. I claim some portion of the brain will light up--or cause a detectable effect in some kind of brain-scan device--at the same time that the subject says he is experiencing aesthetic pleasure. Just the way an experience of sound, for instance, now can be. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 15 10:12:55 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:12:55 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2007 8:14:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Finnegan > All I can say back, Jim, is that I am analytical, you not. I've seen a good many of the usually interesting texts you've come across that you feel try to to define poetry but which seem to me only attempts to say something clever about it. I feel that in what you say here you're with the intellectual nihilists. What is not large and unwieldy, considered in detail? I say poetry is (1) words; (2) literature (or words and, sometimes, other matter, that seem primarily to be trying to provide beauty to those experiencing it in the view of a consensus of informed observers); (3) texts containing a significant number of flow-breaks compared to prose literature. Beauty is that which causes aesthetic pleasure--which is fairly complex but is roughly some combination of sensual, narrative, people-related and ideational pleasure. with the first dominant (and its effects will, I'm certain, someday be detected in the brain); flow-breaks are line-breaks and similar pauses in the flow of the text's story or the equivalent. Anyone can nitpick this but I doubt that there is more than one text in ten million most people would consider a poem that my definition would disqualify as poetry, or one text in ten million that most people would not consider a poem that they could find a better category for than what I define as poetry. Ask yourself why there's so little controversy about what a meal is but so much about what a poem is. One is all kinds of stuff entering the mouth, the other words, sometimes accompanied by other matter, entering (mainly) the eyes. Defining music, at least for those sophisticated enough not to need to reject anything auditory that they don't like as music, is not very controversial, either, so far as I know. (It's organized non-utilitarian sounds.) I really think that the only genuine problem with defining poetry is that the priesthood that rules it fears they can only flourish in a climate of ignorance and babble, so refuses to accept analysis of it. --Bob Bob, it's hard for me to believe you are so self-satisfied with your definition of poetry. The definition you put forth is only encompassing because it is vague. There is little in that gets to essence of what poetry is: "(1) words; (2) literature..." And dragging 'beauty' into is a big mistake, and has the mustiness of many antique attempts to try to define poetry which often focus on 'beauty' or 'sublimity'. And then to relate beauty to the word 'pleasure', which itself is problematic, and so much related to taste, culture and perception. 'Beauty' in fact is one of those words aetheticians and philosophers have spent endless ink trying to pin down and probably no closer now than when they started, and it's word that shifts in meaning over time. As poetry has. I rather be nihilistic (in Nietzschean sense) than absurb. I don't think many people through history have struggled with the definition of a housecat or a meal. It's a different order of things, but that should be obvious to someone as analytic as you. Finnegan ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 15 10:34:38 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:34:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2007 8:24:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: I agree that it's as easy to define a poem as it is to define a meal. It only appears to become difficult when you start trying to express those things that aren't really expressible in plain language. The problem is that people often try to express publicly things for which there are no public criteria for the meaningfulness of. I disagree that the effects of aesthetic experience will be detectable in the brain. I'm sure though that we will some day find analogs of the aesthetic experience in the brain just like we have with motor function and whatnot. The aesthetic experience is private and the only ground we have for believing other people have them is that other people often report having them in relation to the same things that make us have them. you can't go any deeper than that, grammar won't support it. Jason, it more than appears to become difficult, it is. (I'd like to see your definition, if you've composed one and would care to share it.) What other than with 'plain language' would a definition be made of? Language is the medium of poetry and so it makes sense that in language we would try to define it. This that you wrote, makes sense to me, "trying to express those things that aren't really expressible," because it at least expresses what so many poets through history have said about poetry. Finnegan ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 15 10:56:26 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:56:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rother in Contemporary Poetry Review Message-ID: If you read just that bit of Rother's article posted in the email announcement, you'll see what Joe Duemer was talking about on his blog here: _http://www.sharpsand.net/2007/09/06/is-this-parody/_ (http://www.sharpsand.net/2007/09/06/is-this-parody/) Could this be for real? I this a hoax to provoke dismay? Finnegan -- ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Contemporary Poetry Review Subject: Contemporary Poetry Review: September Newsletter Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Size: 38187 URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 15 13:07:35 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:07:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46EC1157.9090608@nut-n-but.net> > > Finnegan > > > All I can say back, Jim, is that I am analytical, you not. I've > seen a > good many of the usually interesting texts you've come across that > you > feel try to to define poetry but which seem to me only attempts to > say > something clever about it. I feel that in what you say here > you're with > the intellectual nihilists. What is not large and unwieldy, > considered > in detail? I say poetry is (1) words; (2) literature (or words and, > sometimes, other matter, that seem primarily to be trying to provide > beauty to those experiencing it in the view of a consensus of > informed > observers); (3) texts containing a significant number of flow-breaks > compared to prose literature. Beauty is that which causes aesthetic > pleasure--which is fairly complex but is roughly some combination of > sensual, narrative, people-related and ideational pleasure. with the > first dominant (and its effects will, I'm certain, someday be > detected > in the brain); flow-breaks are line-breaks and similar pauses in the > flow of the text's story or the equivalent. > > Anyone can nitpick this but I doubt that there is more than one > text in > ten million most people would consider a poem that my definition > would > disqualify as poetry, or one text in ten million that most people > would > not consider a poem that they could find a better category for > than what > I define as poetry. > > Ask yourself why there's so little controversy about what a meal > is but > so much about what a poem is. One is all kinds of stuff entering the > mouth, the other words, sometimes accompanied by other matter, > entering > (mainly) the eyes. Defining music, at least for those sophisticated > enough not to need to reject anything auditory that they don't > like as > music, is not very controversial, either, so far as I know. (It's > organized non-utilitarian sounds.) I really think that the only > genuine > problem with defining poetry is that the priesthood that rules it > fears > they can only flourish in a climate of ignorance and babble, so > refuses > to accept analysis of it. > > --Bob > > > Bob, it's hard for me to believe you are so self-satisfied with your > definition > of poetry. The definition you put forth is only encompassing because > it is vague. Then propose something as a poem and see if my definition fails to settle whether it is or not. > There is little in that gets to essence of what poetry is: "(1) words; > (2) literature..." > And dragging 'beauty' into is a big mistake, and has the mustiness of > many antique > attempts to try to define poetry which often focus on 'beauty' or > 'sublimity'. And then > to relate beauty to the word 'pleasure', which itself is > problematic, and so much related > to taste, culture and perception. The same would happen if you were trying to define a house cat, a meal or a song. As I said, beauty is that which gives a person aesthetic pleasure--and all emotions break down into pleasure or pain, it's just a matter of defining what kind of pleasure or pain is involved. Aesthetic pleasure mostly involves the senses but can include other kinds of perceptions. That people have been as stupid about what beauty and pleasure is as they have been about what other sacred things like poetry are is irrelevant. > 'Beauty' in fact is one of those words aetheticians and > philosophers have spent endless ink trying to pin down and probably no > closer now > than when they started, and it's word that shifts in meaning over > time. As poetry has. > > I'd rather be nihilistic (in Nietzschean sense) than absurd. I don't > think many people > through history have struggled with the definition of a housecat or a > meal. It's a different > order of things, but that should be obvious to someone as analytic as you. > Finnegan Everything is a different order of things. Naturally, people don't worry about the definition of things they don't think important. But to defend your side of this debate, you really need to bring up something you think can be defined. Sorry to be short about it, but this really does seem to me to reduce to obscurantism versus rationality to me. To priests keeping what they make money or some other kind of reward off of undefinable to provoke awe from the ignorant--however sincerely in probably most cases. I'm probably a logical positivist intolerant of what seem to me bogus questions. I'm certainly a reductionist. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 15 12:10:32 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <200709151353.l8FDrEHL018094@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <877683.37362.qm@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My question would be: *why* define poetry in general? (Other than, as in Bob's case, the sheer joy of category, which I happen to share with Bob (and Jim :P): there's an odd pleasure in typology even when they fail empirically; if they do, they can still be admired for their internal logic). If one is uses such definitions, it might be in order to break them: the poets I'll be doing thesis work on -- Cendrars, Apollinaire and Max Jacob -- incorporate any imaginable genre or form considered *at the time* as "not poetry": commercial publicity, cheap novels, visual images, prose (even entirely internally coherent prose), whatever you can think of. Some kind of historical notion of what "poetry" was thought to be in 1901 might therefore be useful to the extent these poets were revising or shattering that notion. It's a repoussoir. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 12:49:50 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:49:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> Sonnet: White Man?s Burden darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Sep 15 13:34:05 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:34:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rother in Contemporary Poetry Review References: Message-ID: <005401c7f7be$9d971680$cc2ab750@ANNY> Poor Joseph, and poor us, still some people like to write that way, they just enjoy is sooooo much. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:56 PM If you read just that bit of Rother's article posted in the email announcement, you'll see what Joe Duemer was talking about on his blog here: http://www.sharpsand.net/2007/09/06/is-this-parody/ Could this be for real? I this a hoax to provoke dismay? Finnegan -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.tjmst at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 15:12:47 2007 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:12:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] fela anikulapo kuti-a 77 yr memorial of an afro beat king by gbemi tijani mst Message-ID: <5908b9b20709151212l6f298966m6012de7a01f0ba1f@mail.gmail.com> *EMAIL:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu* *Subject: FELA ANIKULAPO ? KUTI - A 77.1 YEAR MEMORIAM OF A MUSICALLY FRUITFUL, lyrically prophetic, POLITICALLY PRODUCTIVE PIONEER OF AFROBEAT MUSIC & a* *TIMELESS VOICE of the VOICELESS.* * * *TOPIC: FELA 'S UNFLASHED EXCELLENCES AND POLITICAL LENS* *BY GBEMI TIJANI - MST* * * * * * * * * *Despite the consistently fecund mind and agile performing body on stage ?he could have been 77.1 years old this September fortnight ?had it not been that cell death is n't poetic but parasitically predictable and almost all the time melancholic in its own unwelcome trepidations. However, in the case of Fela, afro beat king and good governance activist, his dead is immortal not only to the urban ? poor folks and marginalized citizens whose conditions are still regrettably in their development inertia despite a sharp increase in revenue ,allocation, political spending and oil earnings, unequal access micro-crediting ?if any in some locales!* *Whereas this might look extraneous in reviewing Fela's works ? none of his musical productions on stage or on video locally or globally were for mere entertainment. * *Imagine a Professor of Medicine, currently a Provost of Obafemi Awolowo University Medical School Ile ?Ife Nigeria, Michael Balogun recalled in a recent Nigerian Sunday Tribune Personality Interview? " When I was young I wanted to be a musician like FELA ANIKULAPO''. He further reminisced, 'I was so unflinching to actualize this ambition contrary to my parents expectations that I should qualify as a doctor ?just like Fela's two other brothers successfully did in Europe and were also professionally conscientious and supportive of his career ? during and after his training at Trinity College . His fans and audience (like any popular or effective musician) were beyond the usual audience that appreciates just music melody. * *Clarity was never a problem in Fela's works because his thematic contents were not always on abstract matter like other genre of poets will inevitably be impelled to muse on. Notably every creative writer or lyricist is moved or influenced or catalyzed by his/her immediate human ecology ?especially the political and moral conditions are more often the raw material for productive creativity. Who would be indifferent to uncomfortable conditions such as 44 sitting 99 standing in a public transport service without air-conditioned installation! This vividly exposed an insensitive commuting service and Fela 's music can easily acquaint a stranger to the prevailing conditions of living especially in Lagos where he domiciled till his demise. For instance one of Fela's works ?SUFFERING & SMILING conveys practically the people's plight and helplessness. Surely of course he couldn't have been perfect in the eyes of others ?especially as role models differ ?let alone from the lens of selfish leaders then who loathed his opposition standing. He was frequently arrested, times incarcerated for sundry offences germane to critical satirical music or incongruous smoking.* *Each release was always a test of his popularity? * *Please permit me a space in your globally ?read online digest to vent my lungs on this decolonized, afro beat lyricist-aka Fela whose music was not just melody but has become an enduring (message) anthology of social equity far before Economic and Financial Crime Commission and ICPC were established and retained by the YARADUAH ADMISTRATION.* * * *Fela's Unflashed Excellencies &Political Lens* * by GBEMI TIJANI MST* *(FELA's guest 1980)* * * * * *Fela is a genius. Prior to three decades of his coined philosophy of blackism ? a force of the mind ? he was already a gadfly, performing musician, reflective composer and stupendous entertainer. Although his KOOLA LOBITOS YEARS were not as politically affective compared to the AFRICAN 70S, Egypt 80 time ?he was nonetheless significant on stage. Surely there's no claim to originality in all his lyrics but how else could someone who had been psychologically decolonized, anthropologically alert, traditionally inured prior to his TRINITY COLLEGE days popularize the rich folklores of Yoruba heritage? This writer is of the opinion that Fela's early disciplined boyhood with his middle-class parents helped to shape his independent spirit.* *His dad and mom Revd.Ransome & Madam Olufunmilayo Kuti respectively were among the foremost educated graduates in Nigeria They were patriotic, altruistic, respectable and civilly responsible education practitioners..For instance he was sent to London to read medicine with his brother ?he creditably mapped out his own career in music as much as his brother did in medicine in later years. * *Fela will be remembered as a gifted musician. He 's an intelligent and diligent thinker-qualities which are evidently indispensable in a competitive industry worldwide.Incontrovertibly he's well-known as the originator of afrobeat music something that could have won Fela a D.litt if he were to be an academic delving into the interventional healing synergies of music .He's been fruitful beyond his biology-Dele Mabiaku, Femi Anikulapo,Seun Anikulapo and numerous life(wire) members of his Band that have replicated his type of afro jazz without serious flaws -if any at all except that they will need to train consistently to faultlessly mimic Fela's splendour on stage and a good fountain of knowledge for ecologically catalytic YAPIS.He had also influenced many mucisians including Hip-hop singers.King Sunny Ade is notably one of the few Juju composers and performers that sings ,dances and integrates several body movements or cadence that show such pleasing dexterity. This must have been the outcome of a regularly exercised body & mind.Fela was not just a music maestro he also recognizes that only if he signed off for independent orchestra could he totally resourceful to make any headway for future fulfilment as a shining star beyond the then NBC. Olu - the current YAHOOZEE of the MAINTAIN fame also did the same from his musical group. Besides his passion for a social egalitarian order -which his friends like Niyi Osundare (The Travails of efficiency 1 &2,july 19,1996) also shared - he couldn't have been entertaining epicureans or drop-outs alone.Venerable novelists and poets like Chinua Achebe,recipient of numerous globally acclaimed awards & Wole Soyinka ,Nobel laureate would have expected our dear nation Nigeria to have developed,grown,greatly fruitful beyond biological increase than this since the 4 elections we have had to determine our future democratically.This was Fela's quest nonetheless!Fela and other patriotic Nigrians (who are up an doing) could have love to experience all the bounties and indices of development that will make the World Bank to rate Nigeria among the rapidly developing not LEAST DEVELOPING in our life time. * He's a global personality ?yet he wasn't yielding to brain drainage of the scarlet years .In fact, he 's too much to be exported or imported as a social catalyst in the milieu. His music was well painted with conscience, equity cry and indigenous African communalism. Who could have invested his prosperity had it been the digital camer/video technology was in place inhis earlier decades his afrobeat career reached the welcome crescendo *He's inspired a maze of current generation of consultants in all walks of life - including and excluding the academia.He 's well loved beyond the musical industry.When his home was razed and his household tortured to the point of coma many medical students of the University of Lagos trooped out of cool reading rooms and halls of residence on that infamous day of FEB 1976. Niyi Osundare, prolific poet and professor of poetry at the University of New Orleans, USA, formerly of the University of Ibadan once said prior to one of Fela's birthdays-'I must make it to Lagos'* *There are many admirers, colleagues, political activists and friends of Fela that share the same ideology in truth and in practice without today's incorrigible signs and symptoms of our own lamentable emerging politics. Cohesion, ephemeral coalitions, opposition bitterness, tragic intra and inter party rivalries, intimidations, assassinations, electoral corruption (The Nigerian Guardian on Sunday 6 May2007) . There are also a lot of wolves in sheep's clothing that weren't consistent with populist concept and affliations like Fela especially when the ban on political campaign was half-heartedly tacitly lifted by one of the political-military maradonas! * * * * Mixed capitalist democracy has peddled liberty and freedom of conscience, thought, speech and enterprise but this ideological tool is not yet used as an egalitarian order let alone breed an utopian society-which could have been a democratic mirage too to Fela Anikulapo Kuti? alive or dead. * *Fela 's selfless mind and musical weaponry practically and perennially believed and fought for the so ? called adopted democracy which we all embrace as the new earthly bridge for good governance and logically a lever for authentic freedom from the jaws of the military 's 38 years rule since our impotent ?aka MUGUN independence in 1960 followed by counterfeit transitions, bloody change of batons conditioned partly by military's over drunk with power, facilitated by the civil society's thoughtless, needless, dangerous alliance and blindness implicating that only the ex-military could lead the country! No wonder Fela consequently loathed the military aspiring to or securing themselves in indefinite executive political power .* *No right thinking citizen or presidential candiddate will not appreciate the primary defence niche and continuing training indispensable for peace and sovereignty of the nation.* * * *Authority Stealing, Suffering and Smiling ,Coffin for Head of state ( worthy and wealthy works of Fela) are prophetically alive since Yesterday till Today in Nigerian socio economic cum political history. Shouldn't we be optimistic to say never in tomorrow Nigeria courtesy EFCC & ICPC created by OBJ, the President since 1999.* *At least we should brace up in the hope that this kind of ethical bankruptcy that Fela has observed and declared repugnant as wealthy macroscopic parasites - still inhabiting our political habitat belatedly ought to give way to their death knell soonest as repenting grace is poured on them.. * *Fela 's spirit seemed to have been primordially enlightened: could have been wondering how so innocently elastic our coefficient of parasitic conniving with dictatorial power brokers are helping to prolong our poverty of ideology as well as Human Rights trampling despite the level of sophistication Nigerians have educationally attained. They are also culturally eclectic and geographically boundless. Unlettered and lettered Nigerians are in Gabon, Gambia, Germany, Japan, Singapore France, Ithaca,USA ,Australia, China and are all over the West African sub region earning a living - although by diverse standards and satisfaction just because the home country is not sufficiently commodious * *Fela has been professionally confident of his earning capacities and not so humble to toy with black man's personality who would be confined to a pantry as he revealed in one of his Sunday jumps just a stone throw to the famous and infamous OJUELEGBA in Lagos .* * * *Fela is far from being an idealist nor was he perfect as a human being .Remember Clinton 's consistently good record as a n American President ?surely history will not forget what his life throe,Hilary called inappropriate relationship. * *Our dear HERO ?Fela jointly married 27 wives for professional support and possibly for full fledged libido fulfillment askance 'why going to a strange woman outside the marital wedlock' yet he died of a pandemic disease called HIV/AIDS .In the same cultural milieu most married couples secretly engaged in carrot affairs outside the blessed marriage or even replicating marriages while retaining or rejecting the bona fide spouse. Libido vulnerability akasex -which Fela labeled as NA POI in one of his LPs is just one aspect of man or woman that can't really be linearly jacketed nor subdued except the genuinely spirit ? filled believers ,priests,nuns that can willfully control this biological endowment.Sex perpetuates the human species when these interesting organs are properly used. * *According to YEMI ADELOJU,Lighthouse International Christian Centre pastor recently confessed in one of his friday radio messages on family love - how he battled endlessly for years till an elder banished his fear via Proverbs 11:9,1 THESS 4 :3-5 and finally he admonished that its better to marry than to burn and that God expected holines rather than uncleaniness(isekuse - pansaga) from us all.* *Whatever level of perfection this will keep us obedient to Isiah 34 : 16 we should note that truly there are many dimensions of imperfection with us all let alone talk of many besetting sins we have not dropped since we embraced renewal of heart as NASFAT or BORN -AGAIN believers. Inconsistent faith in practice - or again- nominal religiousity partly explain why an informed personality like Fela might not see any profound diffrence in the life style of these believers.Just as I surmise too that the population of christians & muslims that ruled or led this country since 47 years ought to have made a special or enduring impact good enough to inspire free thinkers , traditionalists and atheists to want to ally significantly for NEW VALUE ORIENTATION and super pwer status -high technology development inclusive.Fela shouln't have been happy if by now 2007 the UN rating of Nigeria in a World Bank is very low developing.Despite our human and natural resources WE STILL WORK IN THE DARK -burningdiesel for hours by generator.Where are the billions screamed a double page report of power failure in Lagos & elsewhere The Guardian on Sunday. However good our economy should not based on mere buying/selling alone... We should brace up to produce,invent,perfect and export .Its Japan that 's been trading -exporting immensely since 50 years ago-now its China 's turn-even most hard disks & vegetable oil are made in MALAYSIA .Nigerias are talented enough to do better * * * *As I have written in 1984-Triumph To Eternity (for Ayodele Awojobi,author/inventor of Autonov 1,2,3) not all those who dont show ally with common religions don't believe in God or pray to God in a way.Maybethis explains why the late Tai Solarin allowed meditation by individual students each day.Professor Segun Akinyinka,ex-May & former Dean of Clinical Sciences ,U.I. 's college of Medicine confirmed this practice. * * * His tory has superlatives of politically wealthy charisma, popular or unpopular, corrupt or adamant to be or remain a life president - a common political penchant in Africa ?Nnamdi AZIKIWE, Abraham Lincoln, Obafemi Awolowo, Tafawa Balewa, Kwame *Nkrumah Wiston Churchill, Mao,Kakue Tanaka,Nixon,Clinton Ghandi,Dr Mrs of Liberia The Ghandi*** * * * Franklin led all the people of his time in his lifelong concern for the happiness, well-being and dignity of humanity. George Washington spoke for a whole generation of Americans in a letter to Franklin in 1789: **"If to be venerated for benevolence, if to be admired for talents, if to be esteemed for patriotism, if to be beloved for philanthropy, can gratify the human mind, you must have the pleasing consolation to know that you have not lived in vain." *** *Fela's political vision is resplendently no less fulfilling as shown in these leaders. He didn't fantasize any perfection in the then unborn democracy devoid of any rich obstetric care just like an expectant mother who depends solely on the grace and mercy of God hoping that despite the odds he would or must be born alive!*** * *** * The strongest artistic gem that ever roamed and frequently incarcerated in the musical performing industry other than Hubert Ogunde also of blessed memory was Fela who should be abashed that the crazy drama in the polity was not always well ? cast, directed and performed. *** *Candidly speaking ?dispassionately observing Nigerians ?almost infected with the looting disease, enmeshed in opulence and tenaciously holding on to power with the armour of sycophants and breastplate of leeches ?together they surrendered their lives to risk and grab *by this strangely innocuous do or die* FEDECO, NECO, INEC exams electronically thoroughly rehearsed for digitalized wings.*** * What made it more odious and a misfit for 21st Century broadcast and lexicon of consensus in lieu of cancellation despite ?multimedia report of crude ballot bagging or bold open snatching of the people's mandate**-JUST LIKE THAT as Fela had sung only to command inordinate cash and political power .*** *Whereas politics is essentially to serve the public .According to press report of 8 May( the BCOS,FRCN ):Only *20%of the legislators* were voted back to represent their various constituencies during the controversial April 2007 elections ?*implying a sweeping off of 80% legislators* into the *political dustbins*. Again imagine how Herculean it would be to redeem election malpractices by petitioning candidates who are discontented with not just losing but the questionable process of polling material:*** * the late delivery,the murder of democratic rights indirectly by staging the supposedly friendly soldiers on every nooks and cranies of Nigerian cities and villages to the extent The Senate President,Senator Nnamani couldn't vote in his own home town in Enugu State.The translucent style of polling collation and largely incredible results declared and almost auto reply opinion of the international observers including the European Union The authentic comment of Madeleine Albright, the former secretary of state to the US government actually tallied with candidly speaking Nigerians themselves(The GUARDIAN ,6/05/07)*** * * *Imagine how disillusioned or again paradoxically unshocked Fela would have been.*** * Or possibly it could have been a recurring substrate for more * musical harvest* and critical *YAPIS to infinity.* Truly there has been pathological jealousy for power since King Herod's era 2000 years ago. How else could *good governance* be strategized especially if Marxism is now outmoded and participatory democracy is adopted?Imagine the infection - right now!*** *It 's therefore becoming valid as Eric Rowe; a Nottingham University don said more than 25 years in the book of politics and good governance *** * "That in politics it does not matter*** * what offices are to be filled or coveted *** * But what manner of men they are that fill such offices"*** *The. Psychological insight of Fela's music since the early 70s has been epidemiologically vital and relevant to our life style as individuals indulged in over drinking and over eating or coveting power beyond a purported tenure ?*** * * *JEUN KOKU-meaning chop and quench is a case in point *** *WHILE someone with psychobiological disorder will manifest bulimia, politicians without a framed manifesto coupled with a service agenda might inordinately bully for power too as long as his thuggery or incumbency tentacles could extend! This is not unattainable though provided such a political leader has satisfied his people beyond ordinary dog eats dog subsisting extortions prior to the election routines ? just to vote and become immune to accountability! If this forgivable if its interpreted as ignorance or poverty what will Fela or Sully Abu called this if the former is alive and Sully is very much alive still witnessing the same summon to docility not only of Christians but also those who kept aloof from basic political actions of voting per se. This is mainly the educated class now in a teeming amorphous MASS?*** * *** * *** * *** * *** *Despite the fading coat of ideologies in current democratic dispensation of 50 registered political parties by INEC, Fela 's Movement of the People (MOP) and his own lifestyle were clearly MARXIST consistently empathic, collective and concerned beyond bare subsistence. *** *Fela was seriously affected by our slothfulness in technological take of and superpower status as he was bothered by poor standard of living *** * -'#20 naira bread na konkolo i bi '*** *vividly drives home this hardship in one of his tracks in the 80s.*** * *** *His bubbly YAPIS with his evergreen, politically aware like-minds and musical fans was enormously triumphant of a star - fan relationship especially the follower ship power other than his political adherents. Evidently he was unpopular with law enforcement agencies because of his stubborn addiction to Coke ?which also landed him in jail several times. ** * *He was interiorly at liberty with a difference. He 's a unique black man. Whose inner permission at creativity is found peculiar to his counterpart heroes championing the cause of the blak race Human Rights such a s Malcolm X ,Elijah Mu hammad ,W.E.B. Du Bois ,Emilano Zapata who said he would die than stay on his knees .NELSON MANDELA 's struggle stands on its own unexampled class.*** * *** * . Imagine timeless works of Fela (eps and lps) that are still relevant and authenticating of the needless, trepidatory slavery we are still bearing from not only the heaps of colonial vestiges but also from corporate misgovernance till date*** *FELA 's activism and basket mouth are more enduring a legasy than the MOP that wasn't registered at all then.*** *Yet Fela was a very gentle person after he had recuperated from his night - till -dawn musical performance. *** * *** *' A NO BI GENTLE MAN''*** *'WATER NO GET ENEMY'*** *'AFRICAN LADY'*** *readily come to memory as great and richly lyricist works. Glory be to God Al mighty almost all his male fruits embraced music ?afro beats version in particular and are globally popular though not with the same aura as '*** *BABA SEVENTI'-unregretably survived all the idiosyncrasies before his cell death at the age of 67 though his fans and many anonymous admirers would have loved him to live longer like a Baptist hymn composer that made it to 91.There 's a consolation that without the torture series and lastly the immuno-deficiency syndrome he could have been a centurion though His creator God know s better why he called him in August 1977*** * *** *Shakespeare correctly said in one of his plays that *** *when beggars die no comments seen and the glory that man had lives after him?.Fela 's friends or foe could have found it facile that Fela ?however artistically unfulfilled would believe that he had packed a lot in his sojourn on earth through Nigeria. We should all brace up for more volumes of work on Fela ?recalling that this is a good prompting. *** *He dared many dictatorial regimes including the military headship of OBJ in the 70s*** *Despite this confronting postures he had an affable personality when not performing on stage.*** *When I was privileged to be his guest in 1980 as a Unesco club leader he hardly talked much?*** *He treasured his guest*** *he also treasured his all round rest* *ADIEU FELA.*** * *** *GBEMI TIJANI MST*** **Convener- coordinator: *** *Centre for Civic Productivity & Development Information*** **Project advisor: planet gems *** **former **Unesco leader,*** * *member Oyo state ANA *** * emails :bymst at yahoo.co.uk,by.tjmst at gmail.com*** * * * *** * *** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 15 18:48:47 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:48:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <877683.37362.qm@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <877683.37362.qm@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46EC614F.8080804@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > My question would be: *why* define poetry in general? > Why define anything? Quick answer: to facilitate communication. But I think your question is really why *explicitly* define poetry. I say that because everyone does have a definition of poetry. Otherwise, the word, "poetry," would be meaningless--no one would know what any other person meant by it. Propagandists, demagogues, priests, professors, etc., don't want it defined explicitly for the same reason lawyers and politicians don't want laws defined explicitly--because then the law will have power, not they. They don't want to be subjugated to it, they want to be able to use it to suit themselves. So, to get back to poetry, if some critic hates formal verse, he doesn't want an explicit definition of poetry that makes it impossible for him to call for its destruction (or humiliation as not poetry); he wants a sloshy definition he can use against it. I would add that what is of value is not just an explicit definition but one that is maximally objective, clear and tight. As mine is. > (Other than, as in Bob's case, the sheer joy of > category, which I happen to share with Bob (and Jim > :P): there's an odd pleasure in typology even when > they fail empirically; if they do, they can still be > admired for their internal logic). > If one is uses such definitions, it might be in order > to break them: the poets I'll be doing thesis work on > -- Cendrars, Apollinaire and Max Jacob -- incorporate > any imaginable genre or form considered *at the time* > as "not poetry": commercial publicity, cheap novels, > visual images, prose (even entirely internally > coherent prose), whatever you can think of. Some kind > of historical notion of what "poetry" was thought to > be in 1901 might therefore be useful to the extent > these poets were revising or shattering that notion. > It's a repoussoir. > Amicalement, > Alex > > > I would claim that my definition is final--partly because I take into consideration how it was that some things now considered poetry once were not considered poetry. That is, I understand the flaws in previous definitions. I also think that new forms of poetry don't so much shatter old (reasonable) definitions of poetry so much as they shatter old evaluative notions of poetry, which aren't definitions but weapons for the use of authoritarians. Good definitions are not authoritarian: they free us of authoritarianism because they can not be used politically, only scientifically. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 15 19:02:27 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:02:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <877683.37362.qm@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <877683.37362.qm@web35515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46EC6483.10302@nut-n-but.net> > -- Cendrars, Apollinaire and Max Jacob -- incorporate > any imaginable genre or form considered *at the time* > as "not poetry": commercial publicity, cheap novels, > visual images, prose (even entirely internally > coherent prose), whatever you can think of. I still don't consider any of these things poetry, by the way--unless incorporated into a poem. (And I see that Alex was not saying they were.) My definition, it seems to me, will avoid breaking down if some new (in kind) matter starts being added to what are now known as poems because it merely requires that a poem be, ultimately, a text of some sort, whether anything non-textual is added to it or not. I define a poem as a particular kind of text (a literary text with one of more flow-breaks per line), with or without atextual additions (so long as they don't make the text seem the thing added rather than the thing added to, to a consensus of informed observers). --Bob G. From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 18:03:13 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:03:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> No challenge to memorization. Please revise for clarity or obscurity. - Jim On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Sonnet: White Man's Burden > > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness > > > > > Hal > > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 15 19:23:31 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:23:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rother in Contemporary Poetry Review In-Reply-To: <005401c7f7be$9d971680$cc2ab750@ANNY> References: <005401c7f7be$9d971680$cc2ab750@ANNY> Message-ID: <46EC6973.8060905@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Poor Joseph, > and poor us, > > still some people like to write that way, they just enjoy is sooooo much. I think Joe was unfair. The quoted material was badly over-written, I would agree, but probably got better. And Rother got Ashbery right, it seems to me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 18:42:07 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:42:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: <648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> <648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> Maybe more of a challenge than you think, Jim. I'll test you next time we meet. Hal "I can see that you are the kind of young man who is accustomed to winning arguments." --Gertrude Stein to Mortimer Adler Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 15, 2007, at 6:03 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > No challenge to memorization. Please revise for clarity or obscurity. > > - Jim > > On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >> Sonnet: White Man's Burden >> >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> >> darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> >> darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness >> >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 15 20:25:35 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:25:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net><648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f18 4a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46EC77FF.9010905@nut-n-but.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Maybe more of a challenge than you think, Jim. I'll > test you next time we meet. > > Hal I think I could pass your test, Hal. I like the poem, but the title doesn't quite fit it as well as I think some other title might--which makes me think maybe I didn't entirely get it. (I think what I'd write for your title would substitute "white" ("whit") for "dark." I also wonder, as an unstifleable editor, if "darknessdarknessdarknessdarknessdarkness" might be a small improvement. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 19:54:02 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:54:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> <648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60709151654o15716b26ld7ee5f3b70b6a6d1@mail.gmail.com> Thinkin t'getme with that penultimate word, huh? O.K., buddy, noon at the jardin in April. - Jim On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Maybe more of a challenge than you think, Jim. I'll > test you next time we meet. > > Hal > > "I can see that you are the kind of young man who > is accustomed to winning arguments." > --Gertrude Stein to Mortimer Adler > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Sep 15, 2007, at 6:03 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > > > No challenge to memorization. Please revise for clarity or obscurity. > > > > - Jim > > > > On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> > >> Sonnet: White Man's Burden > >> > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> > >> darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> > >> darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> halvard at earthlink.net > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 19:57:09 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:57:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: <648208b60709151654o15716b26ld7ee5f3b70b6a6d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> <648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> <648208b60709151654o15716b26ld7ee5f3b70b6a6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60709151657s72b82d8uc446a2ffe2c95794@mail.gmail.com> And that cute little turn in the 10th line. And that first one in the final couplet. And that . . . Hell, you're tryin to trick me, uh? - Squintin Jim On 9/15/07, James Cervantes wrote: > Thinkin t'getme with that penultimate word, huh? > > O.K., buddy, noon at the jardin in April. > > - Jim > > On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Maybe more of a challenge than you think, Jim. I'll > > test you next time we meet. > > > > Hal > > > > "I can see that you are the kind of young man who > > is accustomed to winning arguments." > > --Gertrude Stein to Mortimer Adler > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > On Sep 15, 2007, at 6:03 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > > > > > No challenge to memorization. Please revise for clarity or obscurity. > > > > > > - Jim > > > > > > On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > >> > > >> Sonnet: White Man's Burden > > >> > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> > > >> darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> > > >> darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness > > >> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hal > > >> > > >> > > >> Halvard Johnson > > >> ================ > > >> halvard at earthlink.net > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> New-Poetry mailing list > > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 15 20:57:39 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:57:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more darkness Message-ID: I See A Darkness ? Johnny Cash Well, you're my friend And can you see Many times we've been out drinking Many times we've shared our thoughts Did you ever, ever notice, the kind of thoughts I got Well you know I have a love, for everyone I know And you know I have a drive, for life I won't let go But sometimes this opposition, comes rising up in me This terrible imposition, comes blacking through my mind [CHORUS:] And then I see a darkness Oh no, I see a darkness Do you know how much I love you Cause I'm hoping some day soon You'll save me from this darkness Well I hope that someday soon We'll find peace in our lives Together or apart Alone or with our wives And we can stop our whoring And draw the smiles inside And light it up forever And never go to sleep My best unbeaten brother That isn't all I see [CHORUS:] And then I see a darkness Oh no, I see a darkness Do you know how much I love you Cause I'm hoping some day soon You'll save me from this darkness ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 15 21:03:02 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 21:03:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden Message-ID: In a message dated 9/15/2007 7:57:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: And that cute little turn in the 10th line. And that first one in the final couplet. And that . . . Hell, you're tryin to trick me, uh? Isn't there a name for perceptual trick that is working in Hal's poem? I have the first stanza nailed. I propose the title 'Dark Matters'. Finnegan ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 23:35:34 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:35:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden In-Reply-To: <648208b60709151654o15716b26ld7ee5f3b70b6a6d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net> <648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com> <435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> <648208b60709151654o15716b26ld7ee5f3b70b6a6d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Among others, perhaps. Hal "What does a poet need an unlisted number for?" --George Costanza Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 15, 2007, at 7:54 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Thinkin t'getme with that penultimate word, huh? > > O.K., buddy, noon at the jardin in April. > > - Jim > > On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Maybe more of a challenge than you think, Jim. I'll >> test you next time we meet. >> >> Hal >> >> "I can see that you are the kind of young man who >> is accustomed to winning arguments." >> --Gertrude Stein to Mortimer Adler >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Sep 15, 2007, at 6:03 PM, James Cervantes wrote: >> >>> No challenge to memorization. Please revise for clarity or >>> obscurity. >>> >>> - Jim >>> >>> On 9/15/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >>>> >>>> Sonnet: White Man's Burden >>>> >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> >>>> darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> >>>> darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness >>>> darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> halvard at earthlink.net >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf >>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html >>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 16 03:34:39 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:34:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: White Man's Burden References: <3642FFCB-A322-40C0-A673-F9CF7091B27D@earthlink.net><648208b60709151503u1eb1607jd90f184a959d7fcb@mail.gmail.com><435F69B6-1F39-4892-BBDB-25A5FE0F325A@earthlink.net> <46EC77FF.9010905@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <003101c7f834$0aa4aa60$48eb114f@ANNY> Fat Duck's Burden "quacknessquacknessquackness... From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 2:25 AM > > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Maybe more of a challenge than you think, Jim. I'll >> test you next time we meet. >> >> Hal > I think I could pass your test, Hal. I like the poem, but the title > doesn't quite fit it as well as I think some other title might--which > makes me think maybe I didn't entirely get it. (I think what I'd write > for your title would substitute "white" ("whit") for "dark." I also > wonder, as an unstifleable editor, if > "darknessdarknessdarknessdarknessdarkness" might be a small improvement. > > --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 11:38:51 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:38:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy Collins, or anyone else? Message-ID: <648208b60709160838x631c8ba8wd1e28d3d4c1e3415@mail.gmail.com> Can you get this wrought-up over Billy Collins or anyone else? LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc Come on, make the video. I'll watch. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 16 12:34:26 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:34:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy Collins, or anyone else? In-Reply-To: <648208b60709160838x631c8ba8wd1e28d3d4c1e3415@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60709160838x631c8ba8wd1e28d3d4c1e3415@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C9C6969503BCBF-974-59C1@webmail-db17.sysops.aol.com> Is Billy wearing a bikini costume, shakin' his stuff,?and forgetting his lines at his recitations? -----Original Message----- From: James Cervantes To: new-poetry Sent: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:38 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy Collins, or anyone else? Can you get this wrought-up over Billy Collins or anyone else? LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc Come on, make the video. I'll watch. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 16 13:54:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:54:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy Collins, or anyone else? References: <648208b60709160838x631c8ba8wd1e28d3d4c1e3415@mail.gmail.com> <8C9C6969503BCBF-974-59C1@webmail-db17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002201c7f88a$9430cd30$8e7c3652@ANNY> Jaysoos, there's a bunch of them, are they all crying? James, you mean because of Billy? From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:34 PM Is Billy wearing a bikini costume, shakin' his stuff, and forgetting his lines at his recitations? From: James Cervantes Sent: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:38 am Can you get this wrought-up over Billy Collins or anyone else? LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc Come on, make the video. I'll watch. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon at wordforword.info Sun Sep 16 13:56:23 2007 From: jon at wordforword.info (Jonathan Minton) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:56:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Word For/Word #12 Message-ID: <007901c7f88a$e57c4390$2e01a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> I'm pleased to announce that Word For/Word #12 is online at www.wordforword.info with new work by Sommer Browning, Sue Carnahan, Raymond Farr, Adam Golaski, Andrew Grace, Garth Graeper, Eryn Green, Derek Henderson, Derek Pollard, Tom Hibbard, Jan Lauwereyns, Stan Mir, T.A. Noonan, Marcus Slease, Theresa Sotto, Ruy Ventura, derek beaulieu, C. Mehrl Bennett, John M. Bennett, Solamito Luigino, Ben Doyle, Sandra Miller, Crag Hill, Geof Huth, Donna Kuhn, J. Michael Mollohan, Ric Royer, Brian Strang, Thomas Lowe Taylor, Serge Segay Nico Vassilakis, Dan Waber, Ted Warnell, and Irving Weiss, plus reviews, and a special section (guest edited by Brian Whitener) of visual and sound poetry from Foro de Escrtores, a collaborative assembly of writers and artists based in Santiago, Chile. Cheers! Jonathan Minton www.wordforword.info ++++++++++++++ "Sundog / Zodiac of a Fingernail," by T.A. Noonan If you could clip me, I would be waxing crescent / Once I was a mouth, gibbous until I closed over you / You took my name from Ptolemy-terra australis-to balance me against something higher / My shape was all flats and ice / Katabatic winds rended my plateau at the edge / Interior, they moderated themselves / Sometimes the sun touched my white skin, and I burned like Brazil / My diamond dusts shimmered carnivale, radiation tricky as an open circuit / Now, this ridge slit through, a quick: something little, rough / The nail in front of your face slides under your waistband, parhelios to the snow / Parhelios to the snow, the nail in front of your face slides under your waistband / Now, this ridge slit through, a quick: something little, rough / My diamond dusts shimmer carnivale, radiation tricky as an open circuit / Sometimes I burn like Brazil when the sun touches my white skin, and the interior moderates itself / Katabatic winds rend my polar plateau at the edge / My shape is all flats and ice / You take my name from Ptolemy--terra australis--to balance me against something higher / At once I am a mouth, gibbous until I close over you / I could / would / being / wax crescent if you clip me From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 16 14:56:08 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:56:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Song of the Earth, Jonathan Bate Message-ID: I've heard this book is good. Anyone read it?... _http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BATSON.html_ (http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BATSON.html) The Song of the Earth Jonathan Bate As we enter a new millennium ruled by technology, will poetry still matter? The Song of the Earth answers eloquently in the affirmative. A book about our growing alienation from nature, it is also a brilliant meditation on the capacity of the writer to bring us back to earth, our home. In the first ecological reading of English literature, Jonathan Bate traces the distinctions among "nature," "culture," and "environment" and shows how their meanings have changed since their appearance in the literature of the eighteenth century. An intricate interweaving of climatic, topographical, and political elements poetically deployed, his book ranges from greenhouses in Jane Austen's novels to fruit bats in the poetry of Les Murray, by way of Thomas Hardy's woodlands, Dr. Frankenstein's Creature, John Clare's birds' nests, Wordsworth's rivers, Byron's bear, and an early nineteenth-century novel about an orangutan who stands for Parliament. Though grounded in the English Romantic tradition, the book also explores American, Central European, and Caribbean poets and engages theoretically with Rousseau, Adorno, Bachelard, and especially Heidegger. The model for an innovative and sophisticated new "ecopoetics," The Song of the Earth is at once an essential history of environmental consciousness and an impassioned argument for the necessity of literature in a time of ecological crisis. _http://www.culturewars.org.uk/2001-7/earthsong.htm_ (http:/ /www.culturewars.org.uk/2001-7/earthsong.htm) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 16 15:24:52 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:24:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Song of the Earth, Jonathan Bate References: Message-ID: <006401c7f897$4196cae0$8e7c3652@ANNY> Not me, but I wanted to say with an _alas_ that I finished Suttree, here is an excerpt. I already ordered another one by him. Suttree, the protagonist, is floating in-between sleep-dreams-and brief glimpses of reality caught as he is by typhoid fever: Some eastern sea that lay heavily in the dawn. There stood on its farther rim a spire of smoke attended and crowned by a plutonic light where the waters have broke open. Erupting hot gouts of lava and great upended slabs of earth and a rain of small stones that hissed for miles in the sea. As we watched there reared out of the smoking brine a city of old bone coughed up from the sea's floor, pale attic bone delicate as shell and half melting, a chalken shambles coralgrown that stewed into shape of temple, column, plinth and cornice, and across the whole a frieze of archer and warrior and marblebreasted maid all listing west and moving slowly their stone limbs. As these figures began to cool and take on life Suttree among the watchers said that this time there are witnesses, for life does not come slowly. It rises in one massive mutation and all is changed utterly and forever. We have witnessed this thing today which prefigures for all time the way in which historic orders proceed. And some said that the girl who bathed her swollen belly in the stone pool in the garden last evening was the author of this wonder they attended. And a maid bearing water in a marble jar came down from the living frieze toward the dreamer with eyes restored black of core and iris brightly painted attic blue and she moved toward him with a smile. from Suttree by Cormac McCarthy From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:56 PM I've heard this book is good. Anyone read it?... http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BATSON.html The Song of the Earth Jonathan Bate As we enter a new millennium ruled by technology, will poetry still matter? The Song of the Earth answers eloquently in the affirmative. A book about our growing alienation from nature, it is also a brilliant meditation on the capacity of the writer to bring us back to earth, our home. In the first ecological reading of English literature, Jonathan Bate traces the distinctions among "nature," "culture," and "environment" and shows how their meanings have changed since their appearance in the literature of the eighteenth century. An intricate interweaving of climatic, topographical, and political elements poetically deployed, his book ranges from greenhouses in Jane Austen's novels to fruit bats in the poetry of Les Murray, by way of Thomas Hardy's woodlands, Dr. Frankenstein's Creature, John Clare's birds' nests, Wordsworth's rivers, Byron's bear, and an early nineteenth-century novel about an orangutan who stands for Parliament. Though grounded in the English Romantic tradition, the book also explores American, Central European, and Caribbean poets and engages theoretically with Rousseau, Adorno, Bachelard, and especially Heidegger. The model for an innovative and sophisticated new "ecopoetics," The Song of the Earth is at once an essential history of environmental consciousness and an impassioned argument for the necessity of literature in a time of ecological crisis. http://www.culturewars.org.uk/2001-7/earthsong.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 15:49:10 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:49:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy Collins, or anyone else? In-Reply-To: <002201c7f88a$9430cd30$8e7c3652@ANNY> References: <648208b60709160838x631c8ba8wd1e28d3d4c1e3415@mail.gmail.com> <8C9C6969503BCBF-974-59C1@webmail-db17.sysops.aol.com> <002201c7f88a$9430cd30$8e7c3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60709161249h28a22cdv3d2d4bcb0b23d175@mail.gmail.com> No no no, of course not. I just thought someone would see the obvious possibility. [poet sobbing]: "Leave Billy alone! Leave him alone! Just because he's popular and you're not [sob] you pick on him! He's accessible! That's all you have against him! [sob] . . . Leave Billy alone! . . . etc" - Jim On 9/16/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Jaysoos, there's a bunch of them, are they all crying? James, you mean > because of Billy? > > From: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:34 PM > > > Is Billy wearing a bikini costume, shakin' his stuff, and forgetting his > lines at his recitations? > > > From: James Cervantes > Sent: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:38 am > > > Can you get this wrought-up over Billy Collins or anyone else? > > LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc > > Come on, make the video. I'll watch. > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 16 15:53:18 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:53:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Voices & Visions series & Charles Olson DVD Message-ID: I found this online the other day. The Voices & Visions series featuring a program on Dickinson and Whitman and many of the great modern American poets. The series must be 20 years old now, but it's available free by video on demand. You have to register, but they ask for very little personal info... _http://www.learner.org/resources/series57.html?pop=yes&vodid=703761&pid=608_ (http://www.learner.org/resources/series57.html?pop=yes&vodid=703761&pid=608) You can buy a DVD copies too. -- BTW I bought a copy of the documentary on Charles Olson , "Polis Is This". It's very good. Though if it were my production I would have interviewed a couple fewer folks, and let the best of the lot talk longer. Some nice footage of Olson. _http://www.polisisthis.com/Polis/Home.html_ (http://www.polisisthis.com/Polis/Home.html) I think it cost me $30 for the DVD. The producer Henry Ferrini is looking for campuses to screen it; Wesleyan and UConn locally are going run it. Finnegan ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 16 16:21:42 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:21:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Voices & Visions series & Charles Olson DVD References: Message-ID: <009a01c7f89f$327d27e0$8e7c3652@ANNY> Exceptional, thank you. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:53 PM I found this online the other day. The Voices & Visions series featuring a program on Dickinson and Whitman and many of the great modern American poets. The series must be 20 years old now, but it's available free by video on demand. You have to register, but they ask for very little personal info... http://www.learner.org/resources/series57.html?pop=yes&vodid=703761&pid=608 You can buy a DVD copies too. -- BTW I bought a copy of the documentary on Charles Olson , "Polis Is This". It's very good. Though if it were my production I would have interviewed a couple fewer folks, and let the best of the lot talk longer. Some nice footage of Olson. http://www.polisisthis.com/Polis/Home.html I think it cost me $30 for the DVD. The producer Henry Ferrini is looking for campuses to screen it; Wesleyan and UConn locally are going run it. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 16 16:38:53 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:38:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Voices & Visions series & Charles Olson DVD References: <009a01c7f89f$327d27e0$8e7c3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <00c801c7f8a1$98f9cf80$8e7c3652@ANNY> And Joel Weishaus sent this over: http://www.ted.com:80/ haven't browsed there yet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Sep 17 05:27:01 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:27:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?_=22Hello=2C_I_Say=2C_It=27s_Me=22?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=3A_=28Re=29Constructions_Of__Subjectivity_in_Conte?= =?iso-8859-1?q?mporary_Literature_and_Culture=2C_Heinrich-Heine-Un?= =?iso-8859-1?q?iversit=E4t_D=FCsseldorf=2C_germany=2C_April_4-5=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_2008=2E?= Message-ID: <004001c7f90c$e78e1280$e07c3652@ANNY> CALL FOR PAPERS "HELLO, I SAY, IT'S ME": (RE)CONSTRUCTIONS OF SUBJECTIVITY IN CONTEMPORARY LITERATURE AND CULTURE (April 04-05, 2008; Heinrich-Heine-Universit?t D?sseldorf) After the subject has been challenged, marginalized, fragmented, deconstructed, and pluralized in many postmodern modes of expression and thinking, there now seems to be a growing interest in reconceptualizing the relevance of subjectivity as a constitutive element in cultural production and in theoretical discourses. In contemporary literature, North American writers such as Bret Easton Ellis, Jonathan Franzen and Richard Powers have begun to seek a "reengagement with the world's living concepts" (Powers) by reintroducing the subject as an essential factor of textual production and reception. Furthermore, works of up-and-coming authors such as Jonathan Safran Foer, Marisha Pessl and Jeffrey Eugenides share a focus on matters of fictional autobiography and a vital concern for the self. In literary criticism, this shift is paralleled by a turn to subject-based ethical questions originating from both philosophy and poststructuralist thought (Hale 2007). In contemporary media culture, New Media technologies offer a variety of possibilities for articulating and constructing subjectivity in virtual spaces, a fact to which the abundance of personal pronouns in generic product names - from ego-shooters to iPods, from MySpace to YouTube - attests. Finally, contemporary material culture continues to provide ample space for performances of subjectivity, reaching from fashion to advertising and beyond. The conference seeks to explore these sites of contemporary cultural production with a focus on literature, literary criticism, and cultural theory, but also inviting contributions from scholars working in the fields of media studies, art history, and material culture. Central to the conference are the following inquiries: Where and how are subjectivities (re)constructed in contemporary culture? How might these (re)constructions be assessed in the context of current debates in literary theory, cultural studies, philosophy, etc.? The conference particularly welcomes papers suitable for the following thematic sections: literature, criticism, arts, contemporary media culture, material culture, and critical theory. For a more detailed version of the "Call for Papers" including possible fields of inquiry and descriptions of the respective sections, please download the pdf.file at http://www.unitrier.de/uni/fb2/tcas/Bilder/CfP_Subjectivity_08.pdf Papers should focus on specific literary and cultural practices and draw theoretical implications from there. The conference language is English. Please send proposals (no more than 300 words) and a speaker biography to subjectivity08 at googlemail.com . Please paste your proposal into the body of your message. Attachments will not be opened. DEADLINE for Proposals: NOV. 05, 2007 Jan D. Kucharzewski, M.A. (Universit?t D?sseldorf), Stefanie Sch?fer, M.A. (Universit?t Heidelberg), Dr. des. Lutz Schowalter (Universit?t Trier) From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Sep 17 06:19:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:19:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Considering Class: Essays on the Discourse of theAmerican Dream, edited by Kevin Cahill and Lene Johannessen Message-ID: <006501c7f914$47d6f380$e07c3652@ANNY> new book, please post? > From: Lene Johannessen [mailto:Lene.Johannessen at eng.uib.no] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 4:14 PM the link below directs you to a recent publication, Considering Class: Essays on the Discourse of the American Dream, edited by Kevin Cahill and Lene Johannessen, both at the University of Bergen. I hope this can find its way on to the list, http://www.lit-verlag.de/isbn/3-8258-0259-2 Sincerely, Lene Johannessen -- Lene M. Johannessen Associate professor English dept., University of Bergen ph. +47 55582399/fax +47 55589455 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Sep 17 08:31:16 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:31:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for mss - Tattoo Highway Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:36:10 -0700 From: Sara McAulay Subject: Call for mss - Tattoo Highway Tattoo Highway, an online journal of prose, poetry and art, is now reading for TH/16: "Sidekicks & Fellow Travelers." Deadline January 15, 2008. http://www.tattoohighway.org GENERAL GUIDELINES: Interpret the theme literally or loosely, as you wish. Our tastes are eclectic. We like fresh, vivid language, and we like stories and poems that are actually about something -- that acknowledge a world beyond the writer's own psyche. If they have an edge, if they provoke us to think or make us laugh, so much the better. We strongly suggest reading a previous issue or two before submitting. While we particularly welcome poetry and short "screen-reader-friendly" prose or cross-genre pieces (< 1000 words), we do on occasion publish longer work. We encourage hypertext and new media (Flash .swf) submissions, also photographs and original graphics. All readings are "blind" (authors' names and other identifiers are removed). Writers may submit up to 5 poems, prosepoems or flash fictions (500 words max), or 2 longer prose pieces. While we prefer to see work that has not been previously published, we do consider work that has appeared in small-circulation print journals. Simultaneous submissions are fine, but please let us know promptly if you place a piece elsewhere. As always, we're featuring our contest: "A Picture Worth 500 Words." Details on website. HOW TO SUBMIT: Email submissions to submissions(at)tattoohighway.org, as Rich Text Format (RTF) attachments or as plain text in the body of your message, and with TH16 in the subject line. For hypertext and Flash submissions, provide us with an URL where we may view the work online. Send graphics in .jpg format. We reserve the right to resize large images -- a courtesy to readers with dial-up internet connections. -- Sara McAulay, Editor Tattoo Highway ~ a journal of prose, poetry and art http://www.tattoohighway.org ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 17 09:47:02 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:47:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A poet from Rutherford Message-ID: <8C9C7485C2EE9CE-A60-973@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/09/looking_back_a_poet_from_ruthe.html Looking Back: A poet from Rutherford by Joe Ryan Monday September 17, 2007, 7:46 AM file photo TODAY IN HISTORY On Sept 17, 1883, a couple in Rutherford gave birth to a child with a knack for science and a gift for language. They named him William Carlos Williams. After attending local schools, Williams studied in Geneva and Paris before returning to American and enrolling at the private Horace Mann School in The Bronx, where he began tinkering with poetry. He skipped college and went right to medical school at the University of Pennsylvania, where he began a lifetime friendship with a young writer named Ezra Pound. Williams returned to Rutherford and started work as a pediatrician in 1910. Yet poetry remained his love. He wrote on prescription pads and went on to create a revolutionary approach to prose and poetry by using simple language, modeled after every day speech patterns. Williams eventually won a Pulitzer Prize. He died in his sleep in 1963, at age 80. 'This is Just to Say' By William Carlos Williams I have eaten the plums that were in the icebox and which you were probably saving for breakfast Forgive me they were delicious so sweet and so cold ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Sep 17 10:03:03 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:03:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?=22Hello=2C_I_Say=2C_It=27s_Me=22=3A?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_=28Re=29Constructions_Of__Subjectivity_in_Contemporary_Li?= =?iso-8859-1?q?terature_and_Culture=2C_Heinrich-Heine-Universit=E4t_D=FCs?= =?iso-8859-1?q?seldorf=2C_germany=2C_April_4-5=2C_2008=2E?= In-Reply-To: <004001c7f90c$e78e1280$e07c3652@ANNY> References: <004001c7f90c$e78e1280$e07c3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <565B3085-7877-43E8-9A30-BC565065A601@ripon.edu> Well, it had to happen. All the king's critics and all the king's scholars are finally getting around to putting Humpty Dumpty together again. Poor subjective self: in tiny pieces for all these years. Now about to be (re)constructed in D?sseldorf, thank heavens & just in time. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 17, 2007, at 4:27 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > CALL FOR PAPERS > > "HELLO, I SAY, IT'S ME": (RE)CONSTRUCTIONS OF SUBJECTIVITY IN > CONTEMPORARY LITERATURE AND CULTURE > (April 04-05, 2008; Heinrich-Heine-Universit?t D?sseldorf) > > After the subject has been challenged, marginalized, fragmented, > deconstructed, and pluralized in many postmodern modes of > expression and > thinking, there now seems to be a growing interest in > reconceptualizing > the relevance of subjectivity as a constitutive element in cultural > production and in theoretical discourses. In contemporary literature, > North American writers such as Bret Easton Ellis, Jonathan Franzen and > Richard Powers have begun to seek a "reengagement with the world's > living concepts" (Powers) by reintroducing the subject as an essential > factor of textual production and reception. Furthermore, works of > up-and-coming authors such as Jonathan Safran Foer, Marisha Pessl and > Jeffrey Eugenides share a focus on matters of fictional autobiography > and a vital concern for the self. In literary criticism, this shift is > paralleled by a turn to subject-based ethical questions originating > from > both philosophy and poststructuralist thought (Hale 2007). In > contemporary media culture, New Media technologies offer a variety of > possibilities for articulating and constructing subjectivity in > virtual > spaces, a fact to which the abundance of personal pronouns in generic > product names - from ego-shooters to iPods, from MySpace to YouTube - > attests. Finally, contemporary material culture continues to provide > ample space for performances of subjectivity, reaching from fashion to > advertising and beyond. > The conference seeks to explore these sites of contemporary cultural > production with a focus on literature, literary criticism, and > cultural > theory, but also inviting contributions from scholars working in the > fields of media studies, art history, and material culture. Central to > the conference are the following inquiries: Where and how are > subjectivities (re)constructed in contemporary culture? How might > these > (re)constructions be assessed in the context of current debates in > literary theory, cultural studies, philosophy, etc.? > > The conference particularly welcomes papers suitable for the following > thematic sections: literature, criticism, arts, contemporary media > culture, material culture, and critical theory. > > For a more detailed version of the "Call for Papers" including > possible > fields of inquiry and descriptions of the respective sections, please > download the pdf.file at > http://www.unitrier.de/uni/fb2/tcas/Bilder/CfP_Subjectivity_08.pdf > > > Papers should focus on specific literary and cultural practices and > draw > theoretical implications from there. The conference language is > English. > Please send proposals (no more than 300 words) and a speaker biography > to subjectivity08 at googlemail.com . Please paste your proposal into the > body of your message. Attachments will not be opened. > DEADLINE for Proposals: NOV. 05, 2007 > > Jan D. Kucharzewski, M.A. (Universit?t D?sseldorf), Stefanie Sch?fer, > M.A. (Universit?t Heidelberg), Dr. des. Lutz Schowalter (Universit?t > Trier) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Sep 17 10:17:49 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:17:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Decoratively to rest Message-ID: It's the 124th birthday of William Carlos Williams. Here's a quotation from today's Writer's Almanac: "The goal of writing is to keep a beleaguered line of understanding which has movement from breaking down and becoming a hole into which we sink decoratively to rest." --WCW ==================== Fine Work with Pitch and Copper Now they are resting in the fleckless light separately in unison like the sacks of sifted stone stacked regularly by twos about the flat roof ready after lunch to be opened and strewn The copper in eight foot strips has been beaten lengthwise down the center at right angles and lies ready to edge the coping One still chewing picks up a copper strip and runs his eye along it. --William Carlos Williams ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Sep 17 11:36:24 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:36:24 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_=22Hello=2C_I_Say=2C_It's_Me=22?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?:_=28Re=29Constructions_Of__Subjectivity_in_Contemporary_L?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?iterature_and_Culture=2C_Heinrich-Heine-Universit=E4t_D=FC?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?sseldorf=2C_germany=2C_April_4-5=2C_2008.?= References: <004001c7f90c$e78e1280$e07c3652@ANNY> <565B3085-7877-43E8-9A30-BC565065A601@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002801c7f940$8173edb0$b8ae3452@ANNY> :-) And Duesseldorf is just here close by, I might be lucky to have the Self as a Whole again! From: David Graham Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 4:03 PM Well, it had to happen. All the king's critics and all the king's scholars are finally getting around to putting Humpty Dumpty together again. Poor subjective self: in tiny pieces for all these years. Now about to be (re)constructed in D?sseldorf, thank heavens & just in time. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmetres at jcu.edu Mon Sep 17 12:11:58 2007 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Behind the Lines Poetry blog stuff Message-ID: <20070917121158.AUI44488@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Folks, here's some new posts on Behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com Hal Johnson's "Sonnet: White Man's Burden"/How Ari Fleischer Makes me Crazy Fady Joudah's "The Name of the Place" The Clash's "Spanish Bombs"/News from Another Time Ted Leo's "Since You Been Gone/Maps"/Punk Goes Pop An Iraq War Veteran Joins the Muslim Student Union Remembering September 11th, 2001/Yehuda Amichai's "The Diameter of the Bomb" Philip Metres "Inspired by" Interview with Carlye Archibeque Nir Nader's Interview with Israeli Poet Aharon Shabtai Radnoti's "Seventh Eclogue"/Virgil in a Modern Hell Suppressing Dissent/The Questions of A.N.S.W.E.R. Edward Dorn's "In the Morning"/The War So Far From Here W. Scott Howard's "The Danger (Here)"/9/11 and the... Martha Collins' Blue Front/News That Stays News Robert Bly on "Now"/On Poetry, Rumi, Whitman, Bush... PEACE SHOW 2007/"Watching the Jet Planes Dive" by William Stafford An example: I was listening to the npr program "On The Media" yesterday while repairing and attaching a new table leg to my daughter's "special table," when Ari Fleischer was being interviewed by Brooke Gladstone about the Image Wars regarding the Iraq War. Fleischer pulled out all the typical ad hominems and spins 1) about MoveOn.org--which performed its own ad hominems in their advertisement about General David Petraeus being a "General Betray Us" (a rhyme so pitifully obvious that it made me cringe to see it in print, even though I giggled over it when I thought of it myself), 2) about the peace movement, 3) about the left, 4) about the war in Iraq. Apparently, one ad (which you're welcome to watch and vomit in your mouth over), uses the typical rhetoric that essential blames the left in advance for making a guy feel like he's wasted his sacrifice...and he's lost both his legs in the war. But the sinister aspect of the ad, which Gladstone rightly confronts Fleischer on, is that ugly slippage in the "they" attacked us line. Really, Iraq attacked us?! WTF?!!!! I forgot, all of "them" are alike. Which leads me to Hal Johnson's "White Man's Burden," which is a phrase canonized by imperial poet Rudyard Kipling (who, incidentally, w! as quoted by General Petraeus in his address to Congress). Here's Kipling's poem, and then Johnson's. White Man's Burden Take up the White Man's burden-- Send forth the best ye breed-- Go bind your sons to exile To serve your captives' need; To wait in heavy harness, On fluttered folk and wild-- Your new-caught, sullen peoples, Half-devil and half-child. Take up the White Man's burden-- In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain To seek another's profit, And work another's gain. Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought, Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought. Take up the White Man's burden-- No tawdry rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper-- The tale of common things. The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread, Go make them with your living, And mark them with your dead. Take up the White Man's burden-- And reap his old reward: The blame of those ye better, The hate of those ye guard-- The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-- "Why brought he us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night?" Take up the White Man's burden-- Ye dare not stoop to less-- Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloke your weariness; By all ye cry or whisper, By all ye leave or do, The silent, sullen peoples Shall weigh your gods and you. Take up the White Man's burden-- Have done with childish days-- The lightly proferred laurel, The easy, ungrudged praise. Comes now, to search your manhood Through all the thankless years Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgment of your peers! *** We all need to help them ay-rabs get their act together and love freedom, right? *** "Sonnet: White Man's Burden" by Halvard Johnson darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkless darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkiness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkling darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkish darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkness darkest darkness Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Sep 17 13:48:09 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:48:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting Message-ID: <96B1AE29-C5E8-4F62-A01E-1EDF17407062@ripon.edu> Check out Pinsky's latest Poet's Choice column, wherein our very own Barry Spacks is featured alongside some long-dead Irish rhymester. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/ AR2007091301980_pf.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Sep 17 14:16:35 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:16:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting In-Reply-To: <96B1AE29-C5E8-4F62-A01E-1EDF17407062@ripon.edu> References: <96B1AE29-C5E8-4F62-A01E-1EDF17407062@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46EEC483.5060406@opus40.org> Nice going, Barry. Here's a bit of trivia for you. My very first publication, back in the Stone Age, was in Poetry, and Barry Spacks was in the same issue. David Graham wrote: > Check out Pinsky's latest Poet's Choice column, wherein our very own > Barry Spacks is featured alongside some long-dead Irish rhymester. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091301980_pf.html > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Sep 17 14:29:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:29:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting References: <96B1AE29-C5E8-4F62-A01E-1EDF17407062@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <005f01c7f958$a2cdc0e0$b8ae3452@ANNY> Oh you mean William Butler Yeasts! Great great great Barry, cheers for Spacks I have always said Pinsky is great, ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting Check out Pinsky's latest Poet's Choice column, wherein our very own Barry Spacks is featured alongside some long-dead Irish rhymester. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091301980_pf.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Sep 17 14:30:13 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:30:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting In-Reply-To: <005f01c7f958$a2cdc0e0$b8ae3452@ANNY> References: <96B1AE29-C5E8-4F62-A01E-1EDF17407062@ripon.edu> <005f01c7f958$a2cdc0e0$b8ae3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <46EEC7B5.9060701@opus40.org> William Butler Yeasts is a rising poet. Anny Ballardini wrote: > Oh you mean William Butler Yeasts! Great great great Barry, > cheers for Spacks > > I have always said Pinsky is great, > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry & Views > *Sent:* Monday, September 17, 2007 7:48 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting > > Check out Pinsky's latest Poet's Choice column, wherein our very > own Barry Spacks is featured alongside some long-dead Irish > rhymester. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091301980_pf.html > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Sep 17 14:36:36 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:36:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting In-Reply-To: <46EEC7B5.9060701@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00dd01c7f959$b381c3e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Filled with fungi gas? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 1:30 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting William Butler Yeasts is a rising poet. Anny Ballardini wrote: > Oh you mean William Butler Yeasts! Great great great Barry, > cheers for Spacks > > I have always said Pinsky is great, > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry & Views > *Sent:* Monday, September 17, 2007 7:48 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting > > Check out Pinsky's latest Poet's Choice column, wherein our very > own Barry Spacks is featured alongside some long-dead Irish > rhymester. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091301 980_pf.html > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Sep 17 16:03:10 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:03:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <8C9C52658E27B14-3F8-238A@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00e901c7f965$cb7edad0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Meat cushion. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 3:39 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... define a housecat A semi-animate piece of furniture. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 17:05:54 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:05:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] and yet it remains undefined... In-Reply-To: <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> References: <8C9C51EB535CFE0-3F8-20C3@FWM-D14.sysops.aol.com> <46EAF941.7060900@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <648208b60709171405r3073704v5ec87f5b7c400c12@mail.gmail.com> On 9/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > define a housecat. bi-polarity -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Sep 18 13:18:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:18:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Robert Reich 9.18, Alan Alda 9.19, Ian Ayres 9.20 Message-ID: <003601c7fa17$ffb40c50$a6a93852@ANNY> I used to listen to some interviews here ----- Original Message ----- From: Commonwealth Club To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:59 PM Subject: Robert Reich 9.18, Alan Alda 9.19, Ian Ayres 9.20 E-MAIL NEWSLETTER | 9.18.2007 PROGRAM HIGHLIGHTS ROBERT REICH | Tuesday 9.18 Economist; Former U.S. Secretary of Labor SUPERCAPITALISM: THE CURRENT GREAT ECONOMIC TRANSFORMATION Details ALAN ALDA | Wednesday 9.19 Actor; Director; Author, Things I Overheard While Talking to Myself Details IAN AYRES | Thursday 9.20 Professor, Yale Law School; Author, Supercrunchers WHO'S DOING YOUR THINKING FOR YOU? Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- PROGRAM CALENDAR ROBERT REICH | 9.18 Economist; Former U.S. Secretary of Labor SUPERCAPITALISM: THE CURRENT GREAT ECONOMIC TRANSFORMATION Hear this famed economist and former secretary of labor for President Clinton discuss our current economic transformation and how we can best navigate it while spreading prosperity. Reich has written 11 books, including The Work of Nations, and was co-founder of The American Prospect. 5:45 p.m., Check-in | 6:30 p.m., Program | 7:30 p.m., Book signing | Hotel Nikko, 222 Mason St., San Francisco | General: $15 for Members, $30 for Non-Members; Premium (seating in the first few rows): $45 members, $65 non-members | Co-organized by Springboard Forward. Bookseller: Stacey's Books Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- ALAN ALDA | 9.19 Actor; Director; Author, Things I Overheard While Talking to Myself At 69, Alda was having a year actors dream of: nominated for an Oscar, a Tony and an Emmy, his career couldn't get better. Then a near-death experience left Alda reflecting on his personal adventures as an actor, husband, father, friend and activist. 6:15 p.m., Check-in | 7:00 p.m., Program | 8:00 p.m., Book signing | San Jose Repertory Theatre, 101 Paseo de San Antonio, San Jose | Standard seating: $20 for Members, $30 for Non-Members; Premium seating (includes priority seating, reception, and signed copy of book): $100 for Members, $125 for Non-Members | Co-presenters: Kepler's Bookstore and San Jose Repertory Theatre; Underwriter: The Bernard Osher Foundation Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- IAN AYRES | 9.20 Professor, Yale Law School; Author, Supercrunchers WHO'S DOING YOUR THINKING FOR YOU? When's the best time to buy an airline ticket online? Gone are the days of solely relying on intuition as mathematical formulas are helping companies make decisions for us. Ayres discusses how number crunching affects your life in unimaginable ways. Don't miss this opportunity to learn how to stay ahead of the curve. 6:15 p.m., Check-in/Reception | 7:00 p.m., Program | 8:00 p.m., Book signing | Michael's at Shoreline, 2960 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mountain View | $20 for Members and Non-Members | Co-presented by the Yale Club of Silicon Valley Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- EATING DISORDERS | 9.24 FREE EVENT ASK THE EXPERTS Don Nielsen and his wife, Melissa, will share their family's experience with an eating disorder. This experience led the Nielsens to co-found the National Eating Disorders Association. They will talk about what they hope this organization can accomplish for families, sufferers and the community. Two medical and psychological experts will help further illuminate the issue. This is the kick-off event for The Eating Disorders Resource Center, a new local organization providing help and support in our own community. 6:30 p.m., Check-in and reception | 7:00 p.m., Program | Le Petit Trianon, 72 N. Fifth St., San Jose | No Charge | Co-presenter: Eating Disorders Resource Center. Underwriters: The Health Trust and Lucile Packard Children's' Hospital Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- INFORUM'S 21ST CENTURY VISIONARY AWARD | 9.25 AARON HURST, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, TAPROOT FOUNDATION Recognized by Fast Company as a 2006 Rising Star, "a social entrepreneur with extraordinary potential," Hurst founded the Taproot Foundation to break down the barriers between the nonprofit and corporate sectors in the United States. Inspired by the work of Hurst's grandfather, Joseph E. Slater, author of the original blueprint for the Peace Corps, Taproot is allowing business professionals to volunteer their skills in the nonprofit sector, thus strengthening our community. Hear how Taproot is reshaping the relationship between these two sectors and redefining volunteering as we know it today. 6:00 p.m., Check-in | 6:30 p.m., Program | 7:30 p.m., Wine and Hors d'oeuvres Reception | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | $12 for Members, $20 for Non-Members, $7 for Students (with valid ID; to reserve student tickets call 415-597-6705) Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- GOING DIGITAL | 9.25 THE ABCS OF DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY More than 3 million U.S. consumers will buy digital cameras this year. Whether you are an absolute beginner, a photography enthusiast or a professional photographer, join us as our panel of experts leads us through the latest trends, techniques and innovations in this digital field. 6:15 p.m., Reception | 7:00 p.m., Program | Computer History Museum, 1401 N. Shoreline Drive, Mountain View | $5 for Members, $10 for Non-Members | Co-presenter: Computer History Museum. Sponsor: Microsoft Corp. Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE | 9.26 FREE EVENT THE PROS, CONS, BENEFITS AND PITFALLS OF UNIVERSAL COVERAGE Where California's employers fail to cover employees, the health-care burden falls to local, state and national governments. State lawmakers are endeavoring to find the plan that works best for the public without bankrupting the Golden State. Join us for a discussion on lessons learned by other states and the best way to address the issues of fair access, cost and quality. 5:30 p.m., Reception | 6:00 p.m., Program | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | No Charge | Generously underwritten by the California HealthCare Foundation Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- THE STATE OF JOURNALISM | 9.27 ARE INTEGRITY AND THE BOTTOM LINE COMPATIBLE? As layoffs at newspapers and other traditional media outlets abound and the pressure is greater than ever to increase revenue, what is the impact on quality news coverage? How does this affect informed citizens? Come hear a panel of local industry veterans grapple with these issues. 5:30 p.m., Wine and cheese reception | 6:00 p.m., Program | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | $12 for Members, $18 for Non-Members Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- DONOVAN RYPKEMA | 9.27 Principal, Place Economics; Former Advisor, National Trust for Historic Preservation BEYOND GREEN BUILDINGS: HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND SUSTAINABILITY Going green is only part of the sustainable development movement, one that includes not only environmental but economic and cultural responsibility. Rypkema discusses this aspect of the green movement and reusing historic structures to help revitalize communities. 6:30 p.m., Check-in | 7:00 p.m., Program | Le Petit Trianon, 72 N. Fifth St., San Jose | $5 for Members, $10 for Non-Members | Co-presented by the Preservation Action Council of San Jose Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL GEORGE W. CASEY | 9.28 Chief of Staff, U.S. Army; Former Commander, Multi-National Force in Iraq AN ARMY THE NATION NEEDS The former commander of the multi-national force in Iraq argues that persistent conflict and uncertainty in the 21st century demand an Army that is adaptive, properly sized and balanced. Don't miss this unparalled opportunity to hear from Army Chief of Staff Casey, who was General David Petraeus' precedessor until February and who raised some eyebrows last winter with controversial comments about the troop surge in Iraq. 11:15 a.m., Check-in | 12:00 p.m., Program | Fairmont Hotel, Terrace Room, 950 Mason St. (at California), San Francisco | $15 for Club/Marines Memorial Association Members, $30 for Non-Members | In Association with The Marines Memorial Association Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- WOMEN WHO LIGHT THE DARK | 10.1 PAOLA GIANTURCO, Photojournalist KAVITA N. RAMDAS, President and CEO, Global Fund for Women FREE FOR MEMBERS INSPIRATIONAL STORIES AND IMAGES OF WOMEN WHO ARE CHANGING THE WORLD Across the world, local women are helping one another tackle the problems that darken their lives - domestic violence, sex trafficking, war, poverty, illiteracy, discrimination, inequality, malnutrition and disease. Through interviews with 129 women in 15 countries, photojournalist Gianturco discovered that though they may lack material resources, these women possess a wealth of an even more precious resource: imagination. Join Gianturco and Global Fund for Women President Ramdas for an inspiring evening of stories and images depicting women's powerful efforts to change their world. 5:30 p.m., Wine and cheese reception | 6:00 p.m., Program | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | Free for Members, $12 for Global Fund for Women Members, $18 for Non-Members | In association with the Global Fund for Women Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- JOHN DEAN | 10.1 Former Counsel to Richard Nixon; Author, Conservatives Without Conscience CONSERVATIVES WITHOUT CONSCIENCE Respected political commentator and Goldwater conservative Dean presents a view of what he sees as the dysfunctional chaos and institutional damage that the Republican Party and its core conservatives have inflicted on the government. 6:00 p.m., Reception | 6:30 p.m., Program | 7:30 p.m., Book signing | Bentley School, Student Performing Arts Center, 1000 Upper Happy Valley Rd., Lafayette | $15 for Members, $30 for Non-Members | Bookseller: Lafayette Bookstore Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- DAVID MOORE | 10.1 Research Associate, University of New Hampshire Family Research Laboratory; Author, How to Steal an Election PHANTOM POLLS: HOW THE MEDIA MANUFACTURE PUBLIC OPINION AND UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY Veteran pollster Moore makes the case that news media polls do not report but instead manufacture public opinion. Moore will discuss his belief that the media distort and sometimes completely misrepresent what the people are thinking. He will also examine the negative impact of polls on our system of government. 6:30 p.m., Check-in | 7:00 p.m., Program | 8:00 p.m., Book signing | Le Petit Trianon, 72 N. Fifth St., San Jose (Free parking across street) | $7 for Members, $12 for Non-Members Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- TRUST ONLINE | 10.2 RICHARD CLARKE, Former Special Assistant to the President for Global Affairs and National Coordinator for Security and Counterterrorism - Morning Keynote Speaker DAVE CULLINANE, Chief Information Security Officer, eBay Inc. - Afternoon Keynote Speaker This half-day conference will bring together leaders from government, industry and academia to evaluate the challenges of Internet integrity and the forging of creative solutions. Attendees will gain a better understanding of how to identify and establish collaborative partnerships that best foster ethics and integrity across the new global marketplace. 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m., Program | Center for Performing Arts, Santa Clara University, 500 El Camino Real, Santa Clara | $90 for Members, $105 for Non-Members | Price includes conference materials, breakfast and lunch; advance reservations only | Presented by Santa Clara University's Center for Science, Technology, and Society, the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics and the High Tech Law Institute. Sponsored by Microsoft Corp. Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- CHILD CARE KEEPS SAN FRANCISCO WORKING | 10.2 Studies show that affordable, accessible, quality child care is essential to keeping San Francisco economically competitive for the business community and for families wishing to raise their children here. Panelists will discuss the role that child care plays in supporting healthy children and positively affecting city businesses. 11:30 a.m., Check-in | 12:00 p.m., Program | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | $8 for Members, $15 for Non-Members | In association with the Children's Council of San Francisco and the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- WESLEY CLARK | 10.3 Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander; Author, A Time to Lead A TIME TO LEAD Clark sought the presidency during the 2004 elections, seeking to bring a less hawkish perspective to the White House. After the campaign, Clark did not end his crusade for what he sees as a better America, one that supports his vision of a responsible foreign policy. He believes that hard work, leadership and determination will ultimately turn the country around. 5:30 p.m., Wine and cheese reception | 6:00 p.m., Program | 7:00 p.m., Book signing | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | $12 for Members, $18 for Non-Members | Bookseller: Stacey's Books Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- MEDIA CONVERGENCE | 10.4 The media industry is undergoing rapid and radical changes, many driven by Silicon Valley; the distinctions between media and technology companies fade as firms develop new forms of video delivery and distribution. Media insiders discuss why California is ground zero for the convergence of "old" and "new" media. 5:30 p.m., Reception | 6:00 p.m., Program | Club office, 595 Market St., 2nd Floor, San Francisco | $12 for Members, $18 for Non-Members | In association with INFORUM Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS | 10.4 LES FRANCIS, Vice President, Goddard Claussen Strategic Advocacy; Former Deputy Chief of Staff to President Jimmy Carter ED ROLLINS, Political Consultant; Former National Campaign Director for Ronald Reagan FREE EVENT THEN AND NOW From debates on YouTube to the mega-budgets that candidates must raise to be viable, presidential campaigns have certainly changed since the days of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. Come hear veteran strategists Francis and Rollins reflect on their own campaign experiences and discuss what they feel is the new paradigm in politics today. 6:30 p.m., Doors open | 7:00 p.m., Program | Morris Dailey Auditorium, San Jose State University, One Washington Square, San Jose | No Charge | Part of the Don Edwards Fall Lecture Series sponsored by San Jose State University Details -------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMONWEALTH CLUB UPDATES Program Changes and Cancellations The program, "Freedom of the Blog?" with Josh Wolf on Wednesday 9/19 has been postponed to Thursday 11/1. The program, "Corporate Responsibility Done Right," with Christine Arena on Tuesday 9/25 has been postponed. -------------------------------------------------------------------- MEMBER-LED FORUMS WHEN ATTENTION FAILS AND MEMORY FADES | TUESDAY 9.18 CATHRYN JAKOBSON RAMIN, Journalist; Author, Carved in Sand Details ARTS PLANNING MEETING | TUESDAY 9.18 FREE EVENT Details GREAT WINE CAN BE MADE SUSTAINABLY | WEDNESDAY 9.19 MILJENKO "MIKE" GRGICH, Co-founder, Grgich Hills Winery Details WEB 2.0 | MONDAY 9.24 DAVID VERBA, Director of Technology, Adaptive Path SARAH B. NELSON, Design Strategist, Adaptive Path FREE FOR MEMBERS Details DARFUR: PROTECTING HUMAN RIGHTS | TUESDAY 9.25 KENNETH ROTH, Executive Director, Human Rights Watch Details PUBLIC-PRIVATE SOLUTIONS TO CLIMATE CHANGE | TUESDAY 9.25 Details NATIONAL PARKS IN JEOPARDY | WEDNESDAY 9.26 TOM KIERNAN, President, National Parks Conservation Association Details ENVIRON. & NAT. RES. PLANNING MEETING | THURSDAY 9.27 FREE EVENT Details WHAT IS CONFUCIANISM? | THURSDAY 9.27 NORRIS PALMER, Professor of Religious Studies, Saint Mary's College Details ANDIAMO! NORTH BEACH SHOPPING BECKONS | SATURDAY 9.29 NAOMI FRIEDMAN, Principal, Cooking with Naomi Details THE ARREST AND REVERSAL OF HEART DISEASE | MONDAY 10.1 CALDWELL B. ESSELSTYN JR., M.D.; Former Surgeon, Researcher and Clinician, Cleveland Clinic; Author, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease FREE FOR MEMBERS Details BOOK DISCUSSION: THE HEART IS A LONELY HUNTER | MONDAY 10.1 FREE EVENT Details THE INTRIGUING MANUSCRIPT OF MAESTRO MARTINO | MONDAY 10.1 E.M. GINGER, Cookbook Editor and Author; President, 42-line, Digital Rare Books FREE FOR MEMBERS Details WHEN WILL THE MORTGAGE TRAUMA END? | TUESDAY 10.2 JOHN M. ROBBINS, Chairman, Mortgage Bankers Association Details WILDLIFE ADVENTURES AND CONSERVATION | WEDNESDAY 10.3 LAURIE MARKER, Founder and Executive Director, Cheetah Conservation Fund Details GERTRUDE AND ALICE | WEDNESDAY 10.3 RENATE STENDHAL, Author, Gertrude Stein: In Words and Pictures CYNTHIA LEE KATONA, Professor, Ohlone College; Author, Book Savvy - Moderator Details "APPOMATTOX" PANEL DISCUSSION Details EXPLORE THE WORLD | THURSDAY 10.4 FROM THE COMMONWEALTH CLUB FREE EVENT Details LANGUAGE CLASSES | MEMBERS ONLY Take French, Spanish, Russian, German or Italian. SF Club Office | No charge http://www.commonwealthclub.org/languages.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Commonwealth Club is the nation's oldest, largest and most vibrant public affairs forum. Do you know someone who would enjoy this newsletter? Please forward this message to a friend. Are you a member yet? Volunteer at Club events! Send an e-mail today to volunteers at commonwealthclub.org. Did you know? - You can find out more about INFORUM programming (ages 21 - 35) by sending an e-mail to inforum at commonwealthclub.org. You have received this e-mail because you have supplied The Commonwealth Club with your e-mail address. The Club will not trade or sell your e-mail information. CALENDAR Plan ahead with our Six Week Calendar! FEATURED EVENTS Eating Disorders: Ask the Experts Mon 9/24 21st Century Visionary Award: Aaron Hurst Tue 9/25 Universal Health Care Wed 9/26 >All featured events MEMBERSHIP Membership in The Club is open to all individuals and organizations interested in cultural and public affairs. Join now! Support for the work of The Commonwealth Club is derived principally from membership dues. CLUB AUDIO Subscribe to our podcasts! IT'S FREE! Receive a new program recording each week. Learn more... Or listen now with RealAudio: Saving the Bay Again Airing 9/20/07 at 8 pm on KQED-FM, 88.5 Listen Now The House of Mondavi Julia Flynn Siler Airing 9/18/07 at 1 pm on KALW-FM, 91.7 Listen Now MEMBER-LED FORUMS The Future of Music Part II Copy Rights and Wrongs Mon 9/17 Great Wine Can Be Made Sustainably Miljenko "Mike" Grgich Wed 9/19 What Is Confucianism? Norris Palmer Thu 9/27 >More Forums ARCHIVED EVENTS Atul Gawande 05.01.07 Performance and Safety in the Operating Room Liz Wiehl 03.08.07 The 51 Percent Minority Louis Freeh 10.08.05 Bringing Down the Mafia, Investigating Bill Clinton and Fighting the War on Terror >More Archives TRAVEL WITH US Travel to Egypt with The Club September 18 - 30. Find out how you can travel with Club members in 2007. You are currently subscribed to non-member as: anny.ballardini at tin.it. To unsubscribe click here: http://newsletter.commonwealthclub.org/u?id=12288.14ea12a8d4c1ce8ae45564cddc241e95&n=T&l=non-member&o=2874 or send a blank e-mail to leave-2874-12288.14ea12a8d4c1ce8ae45564cddc241e95 at newsletter.commonwealthclub.org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Tue Sep 18 13:35:42 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:35:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Irish poets, learn yer trade In-Reply-To: <200709181600.l8IG04HK006632@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709181600.l8IG04HK006632@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > 1. Spacks sighting Hey, David, thanks for the notice, and to all, thanks for the cheers. From Old Spacks to Old Mole: you retain that ancient issue of Poetry? What were the poems that brought us to within one degree of connection? (I throw away as I go). on on, Barry From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 18 13:53:04 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:53:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: University of California Annual Online Sale In-Reply-To: <314955651@informz.net> References: <314955651@informz.net> Message-ID: <8C9C833E5A1DCF8-F28-5CC3@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: University of California Press To: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 6:38 pm Subject: University of California Annual Online Sale If this e-mail does not display properly, click here to view our online version. To ensure continued delivery of this e-mail, please add enews at ucpress.edu to your e-mail address book. ? ? September?2007 ?? ?University of California Press Dirt Cheap Book Online Sale Begins Today! Over 3,000 of our books are selling at dirt cheap prices! Visit our website today and dig through our vast selection of deeply discounted titled by clicking on Dirt Cheap or click on the image above. Enter the source code 07D2099 at checkout. Sale ends October 31, 2007. Sale prices not available in Europe, Africa, India, or the Middle East. Additional discounts over and above the sale price will not be honored, eg, authors and employees. All orders must be placed online using the source code printed above your name on the postcard you received. ? We hope you enjoy California eNews. We welcome any comments and suggestions. Please feel free to e-mail us at enews at ucpress.edu. Click here to modify your subscription. To unsubscribe from future UC Press e-mails, please click here. The University of California Press will never reveal your e-mail address to any other organization. Privacy ?To see images and use links, add the From Address to your Address Book and click the shield above. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Sep 18 15:50:15 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:50:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Irish poets, learn yer trade In-Reply-To: References: <200709181600.l8IG04HK006632@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <46F02BF7.6030401@opus40.org> I have it somewhere, and I thought I could lay my hands right on it, buit I was sadly mistaken. I'll dig it up. Barry Spacks wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2007, at 9:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > >> 1. Spacks sighting > > Hey, David, thanks for the notice, and to all, thanks for > the cheers. From Old Spacks to Old Mole: you retain > that ancient issue of Poetry? What were the poems that > brought us to within one degree of connection? > (I throw away as I go). > > on on, > > Barry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue Sep 18 14:50:58 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:50:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Spacks Sighting In-Reply-To: <200709181600.l8IG04HL006632@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709181600.l8IG04HL006632@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <40AEC934-5C5E-4FAF-81BF-E08F977FC943@overdomain.com> Congratulations Barry! No one deserves the notice, or the association with the "Irish rhymester", more than you. > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:48:09 -0500 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks sighting > > Check out Pinsky's latest Poet's Choice column, wherein our very own > Barry Spacks is featured alongside some long-dead Irish rhymester. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/ > AR2007091301980_pf.html > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 19 10:09:14 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:09:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings Message-ID: <001901c7fac6$a9c691a0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> >From http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/: would love to get your thoughts on the following on this list or at the blog. But first, other recent posts: * The Ministry of Silly Walks : John Cleese on authority in comedy * Poetry, Heresy, and Delirium : how does a drive-in in Connecticut connect to heresiology in contemporary poetry? * Another Kind of Heaven : chapbooks and why more libraries don't buy them The Dangerfield Prize I'm naming this post after something completely chimerical, as real at present as /Nessiteras rhombopteryx/ (the Loch Ness monster) or other triumphs of cryptozoology. But the Dangerfield Prize, and prizes like it, may have more going for them than cryptids like Nessie. Last month I mentioned the scholarship recently established for a student graduating from first Canadian poet laureate George Bowering's old high school in Oliver, British Columbia, who "must have a demonstrated interest in writing and be a bit of a pain in the ass." This scholarship, as I said at the time, opens up all sorts of new imaginative vistas for awards. I'm forced to think about awards in the fall, when I have to decide whether to nominate ten people (plus any number of single works in journals or other small press publications) for the Pushcart Prize. If I decide to participate, as I've done since 2002, my ten nominees will get a letter from Pushcart asking them to send their own selection from their 2007 small press-published work for consideration for the next year's anthology. If I also nominate single pieces from magazines and anthologies, the editors of those publications will get slightly different (but similar) letters. If any of my nominees actually wins, they'll become contributing editors as well and get to send in their own lists of nominations in future years. So why do I have to think about whether to go through this drill? Why isn't it more fun? Because since I've been doing it, only one of my nominees has actually won a Pushcart. The sheer number of nominations pouring in to Pushcart's P.O. box in Wainscott, NY, is enormous and (do the math: each year's winners become nominators) growing like kudzu every year. So any individual nominee stands a vanishingly small chance of winning. On top of this, there's more than a small aesthetic difference between my taste and that of the annually-chosen poetry editors. Bill Henderson, who founded Pushcart because of his own frustrations with the literary establishment, is, I suspect, a sterling guy who's pursued his mission with nothing short of heroism. Unfortunately, though, we don't happen to be on the same page (for the most part) about what constitutes an outstanding work of poetry in a given year. That, I think, is to be expected: these are /his/ awards, his bailiwick, and his taste (and that of his chosen editors) rules the day. But as a result I have to wonder: shall I really trouble, say, Rae Armantrout with another nomination, when she's never won? Why should she bother to go through the fairly onerous drill, only to lose yet again? Even worse, if I do nominate her again, and she puts herself through those paces, doesn't she begin to associate me with the absurdity of it all? Have I really done her a good turn, or have I wasted her time? Questions like these have made me puzzle over my nominations year after year, never seriously considering some extremely worthy candidates because I know they stand zero chance, and apologizing in advance to those I do nominate for what may be a particularly thankless errand. All this, plus the fact that there is almost universal frustration with awards of all kinds, has made me wonder: what's stopping any of us from taking a page from Bowering's book, or Henderson's, and launching our own awards? After all, there is actually no prize with a Pushcart Prize, other than publication. The scholarship given in Bowering's name (though probably not endowed from his personal kitty, though I don't have the inside poop) is obviously something most of us can't dream of setting up. But even if the prize loot were extremely modest indeed, or nonexistent -- other than some sort of fuss made by announcement and (for example) publication of the winning work(s) somewhere -- wouldn't it, at the very least, make some deserving writer's day, and be an absolute hoot? And, if the standards exercised were rigorous enough -- or witty and cryptozoologically wild enough -- couldn't it become more than that? Would it be ridiculous to hope that (in some small way) it could actually help to shape the aesthetic environment of the times? That's why I'm musing on a still very-much-imaginary Dangerfield Prize, and why I hope others will indulge in similar musings of their own. Rachel Loden http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 19 11:55:21 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:55:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <001901c7fac6$a9c691a0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <001901c7fac6$a9c691a0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <8C9C8EC9E60FCA9-FD0-1E8C@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Rachel, I'm don't want to put anyone down for winning a Pushcart, and I suppose some service to the art of poetry is being done by Henderson's undertaking, but I?have to think it wouldn't matter a whit to Rae Armantrout's career or literary legacy to get a Pushcart. It might even be slight minus.?But I'm sure RA is pleased that you think highly of her poetry. I can't say?that a Pushcart is?a prize that makes me sit up & take notice. If I see?it listed?in a poet's bio it blends with blah-blah-blather of got an 'MFA from?___ U'. If the?bio says the poet is an expert in falconry or has recently returned from?a year building bamboo bridges in Borneo, well, that I?kind of thing?I tend to?notice.? And it might even impel me to turn back to?the contents page to find his/her poems. The only poets who could? benefit from the Pushcart would be younger poets (or poets just establishing their credentials)?who are in dire need of filling up their c.v.s in order to get a job with a school or literary org or to get tenure at the school where they now?teach. The glut of awards out there...fueled in part by the ms. contest craze and the oneupmanship of various literary arts orgs...has definitely taking the shine off of many prizes. Even history-laden?Pulitzer in Poetry has become somewhat 'so-what', it seems to me. (Tho I'm sure its still a primary feature of the bio of anyone who has rec'd it.) The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens?award $1000 scholarship?to a student poet living in Hartford. It's amazing sometimes how hard it is for us to get good crop of entrants. (All?one has to do to apply? is submit a few poems,?address & school attended.)?Anyway,?no matter the quality of poetry submitted (and Dennis Barone can attest to?this, because more than anyone in our organization he's been responsible for keeping the scholarship going), it really feels great to write that check for a young man or woman starting off?to college. A related note: Because I'm intermittent publisher, I got an announcement of?the Patterson Poetry Book Prize given by the?Passiac Cty. Poetry Center in New Jersey. It's?a literary arts?center that's been around?for years and I'm sure it?does good things?in its community: http://old.pccc.edu/poetry But I was thinking that the?prize, which is?a modest amount, still?probably attracts hundreds of book entries. So instead of this?poetry center having to order a lot of poetry books each year,?which is costly and time consuming,?it prints and mails these announcement?flyers out to various publishers and it probably?gets several times its?prize money & mailing costs?back in the value?of the?submitted/nominated books it receives, and?then presumably shelves these books in?its library.?Pretty smart. ? Finnegan From: Rachel Loden Sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:09 am All this, plus the fact that there is almost universal frustration with awards of all kinds, has made me wonder: what's stopping any of us from taking a page from Bowering's book, or Henderson's, and launching our own awards? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 19 15:32:02 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:32:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <8C9C8EC9E60FCA9-FD0-1E8C@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006001c7faf3$c1afcf70$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Jim, you're right about Rae A. of course -- she certainly doesn't need a Pushcart. But a net minus? She mustn't have thought so, or she wouldn't have sent in her work. Your Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens award is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see more of -- real generosity with a sense of humor, and a minimum of literary politics. After reading that memo from Stevens's subordinate on the Friends & Enemies site, it's clearer than ever that he earned his enemies as well as his friends! Rachel http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From: jforjames at aol.com [mailto:jforjames at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:55 AM To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings Rachel, I'm don't want to put anyone down for winning a Pushcart, and I suppose some service to the art of poetry is being done by Henderson's undertaking, but I have to think it wouldn't matter a whit to Rae Armantrout's career or literary legacy to get a Pushcart. It might even be slight minus. But I'm sure RA is pleased that you think highly of her poetry. I can't say that a Pushcart is a prize that makes me sit up & take notice. If I see it listed in a poet's bio it blends with blah-blah-blather of got an 'MFA from ___ U'. If the bio says the poet is an expert in falconry or has recently returned from a year building bamboo bridges in Borneo, well, that I kind of thing I tend to notice. And it might even impel me to turn back to the contents page to find his/her poems. The only poets who could benefit from the Pushcart would be younger poets (or poets just establishing their credentials) who are in dire need of filling up their c.v.s in order to get a job with a school or literary org or to get tenure at the school where they now teach. The glut of awards out there...fueled in part by the ms. contest craze and the oneupmanship of various literary arts orgs...has definitely taking the shine off of many prizes. Even history-laden Pulitzer in Poetry has become somewhat 'so-what', it seems to me. (Tho I'm sure its still a primary feature of the bio of anyone who has rec'd it.) The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens award $1000 scholarship to a student poet living in Hartford. It's amazing sometimes how hard it is for us to get good crop of entrants. (All one has to do to apply is submit a few poems, address & school attended.) Anyway, no matter the quality of poetry submitted (and Dennis Barone can attest to this, because more than anyone in our organization he's been responsible for keeping the scholarship going), it really feels great to write that check for a young man or woman starting off to college. A related note: Because I'm intermittent publisher, I got an announcement of the Patterson Poetry Book Prize given by the Passiac Cty. Poetry Center in New Jersey. It's a literary arts center that's been around for years and I'm sure it does good things in its community: http://old.pccc.edu/poetry But I was thinking that the prize, which is a modest amount, still probably attracts hundreds of book entries. So instead of this poetry center having to order a lot of poetry books each year, which is costly and time consuming, it prints and mails these announcement flyers out to various publishers and it probably gets several times its prize money & mailing costs back in the value of the submitted/nominated books it receives, and then presumably shelves these books in its library. Pretty smart. Finnegan From: Rachel Loden Sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:09 am All this, plus the fact that there is almost universal frustration with awards of all kinds, has made me wonder: what's stopping any of us from taking a page from Bowering's book, or Henderson's, and launching our own awards? ________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 19 16:10:01 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:10:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fenton on poetry readings Message-ID: <8C9C9103194BCAC-D90-3150@mblk-d21.sysops.aol.com> http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetry/features/0,,2169423,00.html Poets enjoy a high degree of control over their own work, and at poetry readings they are accustomed to presenting themselves as they please. They don't expect to be coached or groomed for performance. They enjoy the benefits of their as-it-were amateur status. What might look a little shambolic to a director is perhaps an expression of an independent spirit. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Sep 19 16:28:43 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:28:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <006001c7faf3$c1afcf70$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <006001c7faf3$c1afcf70$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <03612A4B-CD21-4045-B479-06143411FDC2@earthlink.net> Have things changed with the Pushcart? I thought submissions came only from publishers. Hal "I'll fer him, and firk him, and ferret him." --Shakespeare Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Rachel Loden wrote: > Jim, you're right about Rae A. of course -- she certainly doesn't > need a > Pushcart. But a net minus? She mustn't have thought so, or she > wouldn't have > sent in her work. > > Your Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens award is exactly the sort > of thing > I'd like to see more of -- real generosity with a sense of humor, > and a > minimum of literary politics. > > After reading that memo from Stevens's subordinate on the Friends & > Enemies > site, it's clearer than ever that he earned his enemies as well as his > friends! > > Rachel > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > ________________________________ > > From: jforjames at aol.com [mailto:jforjames at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:55 AM > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings > > > Rachel, > I'm don't want to put anyone down for winning a Pushcart, and I > suppose some service to the art > of poetry is being done by Henderson's undertaking, but I have to > think it wouldn't matter a whit to Rae > Armantrout's career or literary legacy to get a Pushcart. It might > even be slight minus. But I'm sure > RA is pleased that you think highly of her poetry. > > I can't say that a Pushcart is a prize that makes me sit up & take > notice. If I see it listed in a poet's bio > it blends with blah-blah-blather of got an 'MFA from ___ U'. If the > bio says the poet is an expert in falconry > or has recently returned from a year building bamboo bridges in > Borneo, well, that I kind of thing I tend to notice. > And it might even impel me to turn back to the contents page to find > his/her poems. The only poets who could > benefit from the Pushcart would be younger poets (or poets just > establishing their credentials) who are > in dire need of filling up their c.v.s in order to get a job with a > school or literary org or to get tenure > at the school where they now teach. > > The glut of awards out there...fueled in part by the ms. contest > craze and the oneupmanship of various > literary arts orgs...has definitely taking the shine off of many > prizes. Even history-laden Pulitzer > in Poetry has become somewhat 'so-what', it seems to me. (Tho I'm > sure its still a primary feature of the > bio of anyone who has rec'd it.) > > The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens award $1000 scholarship to > a student poet living in Hartford. > It's amazing sometimes how hard it is for us to get good crop of > entrants. (All one has to do to apply > is submit a few poems, address & school attended.) Anyway, no matter > the quality of poetry submitted > (and Dennis Barone can attest to this, because more than anyone in > our organization he's been responsible > for keeping the scholarship going), it really feels great to write > that check for a young man or woman > starting off to college. > > A related note: Because I'm intermittent publisher, I got an > announcement of the Patterson Poetry Book > Prize given by the Passiac Cty. Poetry Center in New Jersey. It's a > literary arts center that's been around for > years and I'm sure it does good things in its community: > http://old.pccc.edu/poetry > But I was thinking that the prize, which is a modest amount, still > probably attracts hundreds of book entries. > So instead of this poetry center having to order a lot of poetry > books each year, which is costly and time > consuming, it prints and mails these announcement flyers out to > various publishers and it probably gets > several times its prize money & mailing costs back in the value of > the submitted/nominated books it receives, > and then presumably shelves these books in its library. Pretty > smart. > > Finnegan > > From: Rachel Loden > Sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:09 am > > All this, plus the fact that there is almost universal frustration > with > awards of all kinds, has made me wonder: what's stopping any of us > from > taking a page from Bowering's book, or Henderson's, and launching > our own > awards? > > ________________________________ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > index.htm?ncid=A > OLAOF00020000000970> ! > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 19 18:42:37 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:42:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <8C9C8EC9E60FCA9-FD0-1E8C@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> References: <001901c7fac6$a9c691a0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> <8C9C8EC9E60FCA9-FD0-1E8C@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F1A5DD.6000008@nut-n-but.net> My impression of the Pushcart Prizes is that they just go to (a) writers getting major league prizes and (b) writers doing exactly the same kind of things writers getting major league prizes do, except in "small" magazines with editorial boards and university affiliation or the equivalent. To my knowledge, no visual poet has won a Pushcart award. Can it be that there isn't a single visual poet in this country publishing work at the level of the poets getting Pushcart prizes? I can't believe it. And I'm sure many other poets doing non-mainstream work could name other poetries and kinds of fiction ignored by the Pushcart people. What's so discouraging about this is that NO awarder of prizes to writers is better at than the Pushcart people (if you believe, with me, that it's valuable to find and honor people doing effective uncertified art, if such art exists, and it seems always to have existed since 1800 or so). --Bob G. From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 19 18:00:44 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:00:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <03612A4B-CD21-4045-B479-06143411FDC2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000201c7fb08$88786450$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Hi Hal, As far as I know it's always been this way -- with submissions sought from contributing editors (aka previous winners) as well as from publishers. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson [mailto:halvard at earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 1:29 PM > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry > News & Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings > > Have things changed with the Pushcart? I thought > submissions came only from publishers. > > Hal > > "I'll fer him, and firk him, and ferret him." > --Shakespeare > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Rachel Loden wrote: > > > Jim, you're right about Rae A. of course -- she certainly doesn't > > need a > > Pushcart. But a net minus? She mustn't have thought so, or she > > wouldn't have > > sent in her work. > > > > Your Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens award is exactly > the sort > > of thing > > I'd like to see more of -- real generosity with a sense of humor, > > and a > > minimum of literary politics. > > > > After reading that memo from Stevens's subordinate on the > Friends & > > Enemies > > site, it's clearer than ever that he earned his enemies as > well as his > > friends! > > > > Rachel > > > > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: jforjames at aol.com [mailto:jforjames at aol.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:55 AM > > To: r_loden at sbcglobal.net; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and > other musings > > > > > > Rachel, > > I'm don't want to put anyone down for winning a Pushcart, and I > > suppose some service to the art > > of poetry is being done by Henderson's undertaking, but > I have to > > think it wouldn't matter a whit to Rae > > Armantrout's career or literary legacy to get a > Pushcart. It might > > even be slight minus. But I'm sure > > RA is pleased that you think highly of her poetry. > > > > I can't say that a Pushcart is a prize that makes me > sit up & take > > notice. If I see it listed in a poet's bio > > it blends with blah-blah-blather of got an 'MFA from > ___ U'. If the > > bio says the poet is an expert in falconry > > or has recently returned from a year building bamboo bridges in > > Borneo, well, that I kind of thing I tend to notice. > > And it might even impel me to turn back to the contents > page to find > > his/her poems. The only poets who could > > benefit from the Pushcart would be younger poets (or poets just > > establishing their credentials) who are > > in dire need of filling up their c.v.s in order to get > a job with a > > school or literary org or to get tenure > > at the school where they now teach. > > > > The glut of awards out there...fueled in part by the ms. contest > > craze and the oneupmanship of various > > literary arts orgs...has definitely taking the shine off of many > > prizes. Even history-laden Pulitzer > > in Poetry has become somewhat 'so-what', it seems to > me. (Tho I'm > > sure its still a primary feature of the > > bio of anyone who has rec'd it.) > > > > The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens award $1000 > scholarship to > > a student poet living in Hartford. > > It's amazing sometimes how hard it is for us to get good crop of > > entrants. (All one has to do to apply > > is submit a few poems, address & school attended.) > Anyway, no matter > > the quality of poetry submitted > > (and Dennis Barone can attest to this, because more > than anyone in > > our organization he's been responsible > > for keeping the scholarship going), it really feels > great to write > > that check for a young man or woman > > starting off to college. > > > > A related note: Because I'm intermittent publisher, I got an > > announcement of the Patterson Poetry Book > > Prize given by the Passiac Cty. Poetry Center in New > Jersey. It's a > > literary arts center that's been around for > > years and I'm sure it does good things in its community: > > http://old.pccc.edu/poetry > > But I was thinking that the prize, which is a modest > amount, still > > probably attracts hundreds of book entries. > > So instead of this poetry center having to order a lot of poetry > > books each year, which is costly and time > > consuming, it prints and mails these announcement flyers out to > > various publishers and it probably gets > > several times its prize money & mailing costs back in > the value of > > the submitted/nominated books it receives, > > and then presumably shelves these books in its library. Pretty > > smart. > > > > Finnegan > > > > From: Rachel Loden > > Sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:09 am > > > > All this, plus the fact that there is almost universal > frustration > > with > > awards of all kinds, has made me wonder: what's > stopping any of us > > from > > taking a page from Bowering's book, or Henderson's, and > launching > > our own > > awards? > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out > free AOL Mail > > > index.htm?ncid=A > > OLAOF00020000000970> ! > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 19 18:06:16 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:06:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <46F1A5DD.6000008@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000001c7fb09$4d97f430$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Bob G. wrote: > that it's valuable to find and honor people doing > effective uncertified art, if such art exists Yep. Exactly the reason for my post. Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:43 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings > > My impression of the Pushcart Prizes is that they just go to > (a) writers > getting major league prizes and (b) writers doing exactly the > same kind > of things writers getting major league prizes do, except in "small" > magazines with editorial boards and university affiliation or the > equivalent. To my knowledge, no visual poet has won a > Pushcart award. > Can it be that there isn't a single visual poet in this country > publishing work at the level of the poets getting Pushcart prizes? I > can't believe it. And I'm sure many other poets doing non-mainstream > work could name other poetries and kinds of fiction ignored by the > Pushcart people. What's so discouraging about this is that > NO awarder > of prizes to writers is better at than the Pushcart people (if you > believe, with me, that it's valuable to find and honor people doing > effective uncertified art, if such art exists, and it seems always to > have existed since 1800 or so). > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Sep 19 19:53:42 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:53:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings In-Reply-To: <000001c7fb09$4d97f430$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <000001c7fb09$4d97f430$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <46F1B686.3000600@nut-n-but.net> Rachel Loden wrote: > Bob G. wrote: > > >> that it's valuable to find and honor people doing >> effective uncertified art, if such art exists >> > > Yep. Exactly the reason for my post. > > Rachel I seem not to have gotten it--the first post I got on the subject was James's. The Pushcart, alas, is one of my buzzer topics, so I had to jump in. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 20 12:36:28 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:36:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pushcart Message-ID: <8C9C9BB87147AE9-744-6067@WEBMAIL-MB10.sysops.aol.com> http://www.pushcartprize.com/index.htm Not much on their website. No list of winners. Nothing about the judging. I don't own any of their annual?anthologies? Are they nicely done? Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu Sep 20 12:39:09 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:39:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The Dangerfield Prize In-Reply-To: <200709191600.l8JG04HL004523@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709191600.l8JG04HL004523@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <906798D9-36E2-46A4-AB79-4B53760F5DAA@overdomain.com> Great idea. How do we start? I'd been meaning to comment on the Dangerfield syndrome discussion on Humpo which I read and enjoyed when it first came to my attention a few months ago. Many of the contributions were enlightening, clear, astute and even funny. Seems one thing we learned in 20C novels, short stories & works for theatre, such as Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow (Pynchon), Marat/Sade (Weiss), The Castle, Metamorphosis, Beckett's 3 Novels and End Game, Happy Days and Godot, was that comedy can encompass tragedy, and not vice-versa. I believe Joyce made a statement to this effect. Among poems, only Prufrock and Waste Land seem to me to contain both tragic and comedic elements-- but as usual I must plead ignorance of a lot of contemporary poems. I don't recall in the roundtable discussion much putting forward of poems that were examples of comedy. This is precisely the hole in my knowledge I'd like to fill. So my question to the group: Which poets/poems should be nominated for the Dangerfield prize in the last 100 years? the last 50 years? the last 10 years? > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:09:14 -0700 > From: "Rachel Loden" > Subject: [New-Poetry] The Dangerfield Prize and other musings >> From http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/: > > would love to get your thoughts on the following on this list or at > the > blog. > > But first, other recent posts: > > * The Ministry of Silly Walks : John Cleese on authority in comedy > > * Poetry, Heresy, and Delirium : how does a drive-in in Connecticut > connect > to heresiology in contemporary poetry? > > * Another Kind of Heaven : chapbooks and why more libraries don't > buy them > > > The Dangerfield Prize > > I'm naming this post after something completely chimerical, as real at > present as /Nessiteras rhombopteryx/ (the Loch Ness monster) or other > triumphs of cryptozoology. But the Dangerfield Prize, and prizes > like it, > may have more going for them than cryptids like Nessie. > > Last month I mentioned the scholarship recently established for a > student > graduating from first Canadian poet laureate George Bowering's old > high > school in Oliver, British Columbia, who "must have a demonstrated > interest > in writing and be a bit of a pain in the ass." > > This scholarship, as I said at the time, opens up all sorts of new > imaginative vistas for awards. I'm forced to think about awards in > the fall, > when I have to decide whether to nominate ten people (plus any > number of > single works in journals or other small press publications) for the > Pushcart > Prize. If I decide to participate, as I've done since 2002, my ten > nominees > will get a letter from Pushcart asking them to send their own > selection from > their 2007 small press-published work for consideration for the > next year's > anthology. If I also nominate single pieces from magazines and > anthologies, > the editors of those publications will get slightly different (but > similar) > letters. > > If any of my nominees actually wins, they'll become contributing > editors as > well and get to send in their own lists of nominations in future > years. > > So why do I have to think about whether to go through this drill? > Why isn't > it more fun? Because since I've been doing it, only one of my > nominees has > actually won a Pushcart. The sheer number of nominations pouring in to > Pushcart's P.O. box in Wainscott, NY, is enormous and (do the math: > each > year's winners become nominators) growing like kudzu every year. So > any > individual nominee stands a vanishingly small chance of winning. > > On top of this, there's more than a small aesthetic difference > between my > taste and that of the annually-chosen poetry editors. Bill > Henderson, who > founded Pushcart because of his own frustrations with the literary > establishment, is, I suspect, a sterling guy who's pursued his > mission with > nothing short of heroism. Unfortunately, though, we don't happen to > be on > the same page (for the most part) about what constitutes an > outstanding work > of poetry in a given year. > > That, I think, is to be expected: these are /his/ awards, his > bailiwick, and > his taste (and that of his chosen editors) rules the day. But as a > result I > have to wonder: shall I really trouble, say, Rae Armantrout with > another > nomination, when she's never won? Why should she bother to go > through the > fairly onerous drill, only to lose yet again? > > Even worse, if I do nominate her again, and she puts herself > through those > paces, doesn't she begin to associate me with the absurdity of it > all? Have > I really done her a good turn, or have I wasted her time? Questions > like > these have made me puzzle over my nominations year after year, never > seriously considering some extremely worthy candidates because I > know they > stand zero chance, and apologizing in advance to those I do > nominate for > what may be a particularly thankless errand. > > All this, plus the fact that there is almost universal frustration > with > awards of all kinds, has made me wonder: what's stopping any of us > from > taking a page from Bowering's book, or Henderson's, and launching > our own > awards? > > After all, there is actually no prize with a Pushcart Prize, other > than > publication. The scholarship given in Bowering's name (though > probably not > endowed from his personal kitty, though I don't have the inside > poop) is > obviously something most of us can't dream of setting up. But even > if the > prize loot were extremely modest indeed, or nonexistent -- other > than some > sort of fuss made by announcement and (for example) publication of the > winning work(s) somewhere -- wouldn't it, at the very least, make some > deserving writer's day, and be an absolute hoot? > > And, if the standards exercised were rigorous enough -- or witty and > cryptozoologically wild enough -- couldn't it become more than > that? Would > it be ridiculous to hope that (in some small way) it could actually > help to > shape the aesthetic environment of the times? > > That's why I'm musing on a still very-much-imaginary Dangerfield > Prize, and > why I hope others will indulge in similar musings of their own. > > Rachel Loden > http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ > > From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 20 12:59:00 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:59:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pushcart In-Reply-To: <8C9C9BB87147AE9-744-6067@WEBMAIL-MB10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C9BB87147AE9-744-6067@WEBMAIL-MB10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F2A6D4.7010309@opus40.org> Henderson's an old friend, and married to an even older and closer friend, and when we were both living in NYC in the 70s. I lobbied him to make me full-time poetry editor of Pushcart, to no avail. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.pushcartprize.com/index.htm > > Not much on their website. No list of winners. Nothing about the judging. > > I don't own any of their annual anthologies? Are they nicely done? > > Finnegan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 20 13:18:23 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:18:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA Message-ID: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> I know there's been a proliferation of Low Residency MFA programs, but I noticed recently that U. of Texas El Paso allows one to get the degree entirely online?(so you?don't even have change out of your pajamas)... I know writing is a lonely art, but isn't this encouraging one to be a recluse?... http://academics.utep.edu/Default.aspx?tabid=42392 Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 20 14:18:03 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:18:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA In-Reply-To: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F2B95B.8080302@opus40.org> People change out of their pajamas to go to class? jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I know there's been a proliferation of Low Residency MFA programs, but > I noticed recently that U. of Texas El Paso allows one to get the degree > entirely online (so you don't even have change out of your pajamas)... > I know writing is a lonely art, but isn't this encouraging one to be a > recluse?... > > http://academics.utep.edu/Default.aspx?tabid=42392 > > Finnegan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 14:21:59 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:21:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA In-Reply-To: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60709201121v1248e3f4l4d91378f39753e7e@mail.gmail.com> On 9/20/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I know there's been a proliferation of Low Residency MFA programs, but > I noticed recently that U. of Texas El Paso allows one to get the degree > entirely online (so you don't even have change out of your pajamas)... Only one step more: get an MFA while you sleep. > I know writing is a lonely art, but isn't this encouraging one to be a > recluse?... > That's easily acheived with a traditional MFA. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 14:27:05 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:27:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Writer's Harvest? Message-ID: <731bb17a0709201127g65cd59c8y6dc67346da4281c5@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone remember/know of an event called "Writer's Harvest?" I remember participating in several when I was an undergraduate. Essentially, it was a poetry/prose reading during which canned goods and money was collected to be donated to a local homeless shelter. If I remember correctly, we had posters and press announcements sent to us by some national office, probably whoever sponsored the event. However, googling "Writer's Harvest" only brings up announcements of previous Writer's Harvest readings on various campuses. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I'd appreciate any help. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 20 14:42:10 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:42:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY> I have always been a sort of recluse, it seems a sine qua non for those who like or have to read, otherwise how could you? I feel I need at least three different and simultaneous lives: - one to read and write - one to have a life - one to paint and do some sport and clean up the house ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA I know there's been a proliferation of Low Residency MFA programs, but I noticed recently that U. of Texas El Paso allows one to get the degree entirely online (so you don't even have change out of your pajamas)... I know writing is a lonely art, but isn't this encouraging one to be a recluse?... http://academics.utep.edu/Default.aspx?tabid=42392 Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 20 15:19:15 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:19:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] eduard habicher Message-ID: <005e01c7fbbb$225d8980$5aaf3252@ANNY> just translated the following - a couple of passages are not too bad, a link to see the original work: http://www.galleriadisegno.it/artisti/habicher_E/index.html the author of the text is Nicoletti. Matter's sign articulation The kind of search carried out by Eduard Habicher in his artwork pivots on the binomial: emotion and reason. His work is developed in the sign articulation of matter that - by dialoguing with the idea of expansion and lightness - modifies the environment. He mutates it as presence, in fact matter is installed on walls, on architectonic structures ready to become the natural support of its manifesting. Sculpture by Habicher draws spaces, the limit of which seems to be zeroed in the extension of steel that pushes itself to the extreme: form is by now an almost calligraphic trace that runs borders. The definition of a border is anyhow interrupted with colored surfaces that, by landing on the wall, deepen its consistency. Subtle plates of red glass or precious gatherings of green glass recall precious stones transparencies. Gems are tied one to the other by the presence of thin sheets that partly surround or cross them by highlighting the subtle appearance of light. Luminous rays lay on materials and weave with them a tacit and endless relationship that, at the presence of light, gives consistency to shade as if to show a further drawing, another extension of the same artwork and, in its absence, it allows matter to absorb its strength. Sculpture becomes a drawn form, trace of a thought, image of the body. It is sometimes profile of nature, of a body, of a thought. It is presence that widens itself in space by building a dynamic reason throbbing energy. It is the weight of metal leading your sight to embrace any single element and to page the surfaces of a moving space in which we are and projected towards the inside and pushed out to be once again attracted until our observation is content in having seized every little fold that corresponds to each minimum gesture. Matter embraces other matter. Metal outlines glass, caresses combust wood. Glass spaces out the steel trace, makes it curious, stresses its course by tracing on the wall a trail, a course. His sign is always sinuous, soft, even when matter is harsh and its reflected shade hard and heavy. Our contemporary sight seizes open and variable traces able to push themselves beyond the limit of mere appearance. Eduard Habicher's sculpture brings with itself a tension to the limit, as if it wanted to challenge common naturalness to become itself form and experience. We have seen thin sheets becoming outlines and profiles to give an identity to the sign, glasses transform themselves into sparkling energy points charged with light, and wood into element of memory and passion. We have observed every single part and we have recognized the infinite possibilities that matter gestuality indicates by surfacing on the walls and becoming a mobile part and lengthening of an architecture. Sculpture concentrates the space of our observing. In the narrative genesis of titles and in the imaginative strength of the one who makes the artwork, depth of thought is revealed by making suggestions concrete, forms open expressing light in a constant rhythm of presences and absences, of revelations and transformations to reach the essence of the object. Steel's strength laces a constant dialogue with the fragility of glass and with the metamorphosis of wood to highlight that nature's space is in perpetual change. Sheets then caress time by lightly touching the walls they lengthen or entwine thus evoking the depths of our restless living and with them the surprise of a sight that tracks, also in matter's strength, nature's atmospheres. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 20 15:47:27 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:47:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker Message-ID: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/books/20poet.html Pulitzer Winner to Take Over as New Yorker?s Poetry Editor ?Laura Pedrick for The New York Times Paul Muldoon will become poetry editor of The New Yorker. ?????????????? E-MailPrint Reprints Save Share DiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink ? By MOTOKO RICH Published: September 20, 2007 Alice Quinn, the poetry editor of The New Yorker, is stepping down after 20 years and will be succeeded in one of the most influential posts in the poetry world by Paul Muldoon, the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet. Mr. Muldoon, 56, will remain chairman of the Princeton University Center for the Creative and Performing Arts. An Irish-born poet who has published 10 volumes of verse, he will also continue to write and teach at Princeton. Ms. Quinn, 58, will leave the magazine in early November. She is executive director of the Poetry Society of America and an adjunct professor at Columbia University?s School of the Arts. She said she wanted to devote more time to those jobs as well as to a collection of Elizabeth Bishop?s journals and notebooks that she is editing. ?I had to keep stealing days to get up to the archive during the week,? she said, referring to the collection of Ms. Bishop?s papers at Vassar College. ?I don?t want to take five or six years doing this book.? Mr. Muldoon quickly emerged as the leading candidate after Ms. Quinn announced her intentions. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 20 17:21:55 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:21:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F2E473.2020700@nut-n-but.net> > > Pulitzer Winner to Take Over as New Yorker?s Poetry Editor > Laura Pedrick for The New York Times > Paul Muldoon will become poetry editor of The New Yorker. > Damn, and someone swore to me it was between me and Silliman! --Bob G. From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 20 16:31:45 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:31:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Writer's Harvest? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0709201127g65cd59c8y6dc67346da4281c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0709201127g65cd59c8y6dc67346da4281c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C9C9DC6596B399-778-74FE@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> I organized?several Writer's Harvest readings in mid/late 90's. The idea was that?the?nat'l org, which was supported largely by American Express, would provide publicity support, flyer templates, organizing tips, etc. But the local organizer ran the show...picked the readers, etc. Ours was a big open mike poetry reading. Originally all the events around the country were to be scheduled on one particular day. But it became more of just having?a fall event prior to Thanksgiving. The best thing was that?the money raised at the events was not sent off to the national organization. You just sent nat'l org a report of how much you raised.?The organizer?got to pick a local food bank or relief agency to give the money to. I think the national organizaton, which was called Share Our Strength, morphed into doing a fund raising thru restaurants. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 2:27 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Writer's Harvest? Does anyone remember/know of an event called "Writer's Harvest?" I remember participating in several when I was an undergraduate.? Essentially, it was a poetry/prose reading during which canned goods and money was collected to be donated to a local homeless shelter.? If I remember correctly, we had posters and press announcements sent to us by some national office, probably whoever sponsored the event. However, googling "Writer's Harvest" only brings up announcements of previous Writer's Harvest readings on various campuses. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?? I'd appreciate any help. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers.??Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Sep 20 16:55:49 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:55:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <46F2E473.2020700@nut-n-but.net> References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> <46F2E473.2020700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <8C9C9DFC26509C9-778-7701@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> Bob, no way...vizpo would compete too much with the glossy ads...plain text only, please, when it comes to poetry. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grumman Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker >? > Pulitzer Winner to Take Over as New Yorker?s Poetry Editor? > Laura Pedrick for The New York Times? > Paul Muldoon will become poetry editor of The New Yorker.? >? Damn, and someone swore to me it was between me and Silliman!? ? --Bob G.? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 20 17:17:22 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:17:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009c01c7fbcb$a31629a0$5aaf3252@ANNY> Excellent news! ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:47 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/books/20poet.html Pulitzer Winner to Take Over as New Yorker?s Poetry Editor Laura Pedrick for The New York Times Paul Muldoon will become poetry editor of The New Yorker. E-MailPrint Reprints Save Share DiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink By MOTOKO RICH Published: September 20, 2007 Alice Quinn, the poetry editor of The New Yorker, is stepping down after 20 years and will be succeeded in one of the most influential posts in the poetry world by Paul Muldoon, the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet. Mr. Muldoon, 56, will remain chairman of the Princeton University Center for the Creative and Performing Arts. An Irish-born poet who has published 10 volumes of verse, he will also continue to write and teach at Princeton. Ms. Quinn, 58, will leave the magazine in early November. She is executive director of the Poetry Society of America and an adjunct professor at Columbia University?s School of the Arts. She said she wanted to devote more time to those jobs as well as to a collection of Elizabeth Bishop?s journals and notebooks that she is editing. ?I had to keep stealing days to get up to the archive during the week,? she said, referring to the collection of Ms. Bishop?s papers at Vassar College. ?I don?t want to take five or six years doing this book.? Mr. Muldoon quickly emerged as the leading candidate after Ms. Quinn announced her intentions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 20 17:18:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:18:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> <46F2E473.2020700@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <00ab01c7fbcb$cd92c7b0$5aaf3252@ANNY> as usual you are selfish, you never think of anyone except you and Silliman, who are we? From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 11:21 PM > >> >> Pulitzer Winner to Take Over as New Yorker?s Poetry Editor >> Laura Pedrick for The New York Times >> Paul Muldoon will become poetry editor of The New Yorker. >> > Damn, and someone swore to me it was between me and Silliman! > > --Bob G. > From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 17:20:23 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:20:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA In-Reply-To: <004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY> References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> <004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60709201420s281fa0dne1fc65ba1c15b086@mail.gmail.com> That sounds balanced to me, Anny. My life's pretty much the same, though things tend to get intertwined. - Jim On 9/20/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > I have always been a sort of recluse, it seems a sine qua non for those who > like or have to read, otherwise how could you? I feel I need at least three > different and simultaneous lives: > - one to read and write > - one to have a life > - one to paint and do some sport and clean up the house > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:18 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA > > I know there's been a proliferation of Low Residency MFA programs, but > I noticed recently that U. of Texas El Paso allows one to get the degree > entirely online (so you don't even have change out of your pajamas)... > I know writing is a lonely art, but isn't this encouraging one to be a > recluse?... > > http://academics.utep.edu/Default.aspx?tabid=42392 > > Finnegan > ________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 20 18:24:32 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:24:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA In-Reply-To: <004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY> References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> <004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <46F2F320.6040209@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > I have always been a sort of recluse, it seems /a sine qua non/ for > those who like or have to read, otherwise how could you? I feel I need > at least three different and simultaneous lives: > - one to read and write > - one to have a life > - one to paint and do some sport and clean up the house > All following three lives, each of a hundred years or more, to learn how to live each of the three lives you mention effectively. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 20 17:27:26 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:27:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com><004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY> <46F2F320.6040209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <00c101c7fbcd$0addbd40$5aaf3252@ANNY> this is a pOm BoB you should vizpolize it somehow From: Bob Grumman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 12:24 AM Anny Ballardini wrote: I have always been a sort of recluse, it seems a sine qua non for those who like or have to read, otherwise how could you? I feel I need at least three different and simultaneous lives: - one to read and write - one to have a life - one to paint and do some sport and clean up the house All following three lives, each of a hundred years or more, to learn how to live each of the three lives you mention effectively. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 20 17:38:53 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:38:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F2E86D.8000008@opus40.org> I'm thinking this is a good thing. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/20/books/20poet.html > > Pulitzer Winner to Take Over as New Yorker?s Poetry Editor > Laura Pedrick for The New York Times > Paul Muldoon will become poetry editor of The New Yorker. > E-MailPrint Reprints Save Share > DiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink > > By MOTOKO RICH > Published: September 20, 2007 > Alice Quinn, the poetry editor of The New Yorker, is stepping down > after 20 years and will be succeeded in one of the most influential > posts in the poetry world by Paul Muldoon, the Pulitzer Prize-winning > poet. > Mr. Muldoon, 56, will remain chairman of the Princeton University > Center for the Creative and Performing Arts. An Irish-born poet who > has published 10 volumes of verse, he will also continue to write and > teach at Princeton. > Ms. Quinn, 58, will leave the magazine in early November. She is > executive director of the Poetry Society of America and an adjunct > professor at Columbia University?s School of the Arts. She said she > wanted to devote more time to those jobs as well as to a collection of > Elizabeth Bishop?s journals and notebooks that she is editing. ?I had > to keep stealing days to get up to the archive during the week,? she > said, referring to the collection of Ms. Bishop?s papers at Vassar > College. ?I don?t want to take five or six years doing this book.? > Mr. Muldoon quickly emerged as the leading candidate after Ms. Quinn > announced her intentions. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Thu Sep 20 20:00:19 2007 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:00:19 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Writer's Harvest? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0709201127g65cd59c8y6dc67346da4281c5@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0709201127g65cd59c8y6dc67346da4281c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49945.75.161.44.141.1190332819.squirrel@webmail.nmsu.edu> writer's harvest is defunct as an organization and has been for at least three years--we still have the event and continue to donate to our food bank, but haven't had their help/sponsorship for a while. connie > Does anyone remember/know of an event called "Writer's Harvest?" > > I remember participating in several when I was an undergraduate. > Essentially, it was a poetry/prose reading during which canned goods and > money was collected to be donated to a local homeless shelter. If I > remember correctly, we had posters and press announcements sent to us by > some national office, probably whoever sponsored the event. > > However, googling "Writer's Harvest" only brings up announcements of > previous Writer's Harvest readings on various campuses. > > Does anyone know what I'm talking about? > > I'd appreciate any help. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, > longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 20 21:32:58 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:32:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <00ab01c7fbcb$cd92c7b0$5aaf3252@ANNY> References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> <46F2E473.2020700@nut-n-but.net> <00ab01c7fbcb$cd92c7b0$5aaf3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <46F31F4A.90307@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > as usual you are selfish, > you never think of anyone except you and Silliman, > who are we? > Hey, justa minit! You and everybody else at New-Poetry were the people whose poetry I was going to exclusively take! Lighten up! Mr. G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 20 21:34:13 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:34:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <46F2E86D.8000008@opus40.org> References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> <46F2E86D.8000008@opus40.org> Message-ID: <46F31F95.8060704@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > I'm thinking this is a good thing. I'm sure he can't bring the level of New Yorker poetry down. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Sep 20 21:36:32 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:36:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Virtual MFA In-Reply-To: <00c101c7fbcd$0addbd40$5aaf3252@ANNY> References: <8C9C9C1624517A0-EF0-6347@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com><004d01c7fbb5$f437d2e0$5aaf3252@ANNY><46F2F320.6040209@nut-n-but.net > <00c101c7fbcd$0addbd40$5aaf3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <46F32020.6030301@nut-n-but.net> I'll deposit that thought in the ol' subconscious, Anny, but can't guarantee anything will come of it. --Bob Anny Ballardini wrote: > this is a pOm BoB > you should vizpolize it somehow > > *From:* Bob Grumman > *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2007 12:24 AM > > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> I have always been a sort of recluse, it seems /a sine qua non/ >> for those who like or have to read, otherwise how could you? I >> feel I need at least three different and simultaneous lives: >> - one to read and write >> - one to have a life >> - one to paint and do some sport and clean up the house >> > All following three lives, each of a hundred years or more, to > learn how to live each of the three lives you mention effectively. > > --Bob G. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Sep 20 20:38:53 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:38:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quinn out, Muldoon in, The New Yorker In-Reply-To: <46F31F95.8060704@nut-n-but.net> References: <8C9C9D6351DAD11-778-7189@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> <46F2E86D.8000008@opus40.org> <46F31F95.8060704@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46F3129D.3000207@opus40.org> That's a given. Bob Grumman wrote: > > > TheOldMole wrote: >> I'm thinking this is a good thing. > I'm sure he can't bring the level of New Yorker poetry down. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Sep 21 15:05:52 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] How Can I Convince You ... In-Reply-To: <8C9C4611CEEF0F7-15C-299A@webmail-md01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <239879.77058.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> to meet me here for some free wine and cheese, among things? d.a levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Tuesday, 25 Sep 2007 | 6 P.M. ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. (bet. 10th and 11th avenues) NYC Tues. Sept. 25 BlazeVOX Books Kenmore, N.Y.) Featuring readings from Joel Chace Amy King Ruth Lepson Douglas Manson Kyle Schlesinger Michael Ruby Ryan Daley Meghan Punschke and music from Compass Jazz Oct. 30 Talisman House (Jersey City, N.J.) Nov. 27 Big Game Books (Washington, D.C.) Dec. 18 Six NYC Presses: Belladonna Books, Cy Gist Press, Futurepoem Books, Kitchen Press, Litmus Press/Aufgabe, Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs The season runs through July and will also feature: Abraham Lincoln (Ashland, Ore.) Instance Press (Boulder, Co.; New York City; Richmond, Va.) Outside Voices (Charlottesville, Va.) Effing Press (Austin, Texas) Ixnay Press (Philadelphia) and more... http://www.amyking.org/events/56/ --- Reviews of I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU Matt Hart / Coldfront Magazine http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html Mark Lamoureux / BOOG City http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc43.pdf Nick Piombino / fait accompli http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html Thomas Fink / Galatea Resurrects http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/2007/05/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html ~ Recent Review of ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI Adam Fieled / Stoning the Devil http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-review-amy-king-antidote-for-alibi.html ~ What To Wear During An Orange Alert? http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html ~ http://www.amyking.org/blog ---- --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Fri Sep 21 15:07:44 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] How Can I Convince You ... In-Reply-To: <239879.77058.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: you can buy me a plane ticket from Seattle to New York? that would convince me. On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, amy king wrote: > to meet me here for some free wine and cheese, among things? > > d.a levy lives: celebrating the renegade press > > Tuesday, 25 Sep 2007 | 6 P.M. > > ACA Galleries > 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. > (bet. 10th and 11th avenues) > NYC > > Tues. Sept. 25 > BlazeVOX Books > Kenmore, N.Y.) > > Featuring readings from > > Joel Chace > Amy King > Ruth Lepson > Douglas Manson > Kyle Schlesinger > Michael Ruby > Ryan Daley > Meghan Punschke > > and music from > Compass Jazz > > > Oct. 30 Talisman House (Jersey City, N.J.) > Nov. 27 Big Game Books (Washington, D.C.) > Dec. 18 Six NYC Presses: Belladonna Books, Cy Gist Press, Futurepoem Books, Kitchen Press, Litmus Press/Aufgabe, Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs > > The season runs through July and will also feature: > Abraham Lincoln (Ashland, Ore.) > Instance Press (Boulder, Co.; New York City; Richmond, Va.) > Outside Voices (Charlottesville, Va.) > Effing Press (Austin, Texas) > Ixnay Press (Philadelphia) > and more... > > http://www.amyking.org/events/56/ > > > > --- > > Reviews of I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU > > Matt Hart / Coldfront Magazine > http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html > > Mark Lamoureux / BOOG City > http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc43.pdf > > Nick Piombino / fait accompli > http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html > > Thomas Fink / Galatea Resurrects > http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/2007/05/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html > > ~ > > Recent Review of ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI > > Adam Fieled / Stoning the Devil > http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-review-amy-king-antidote-for-alibi.html > > ~ > > What To Wear During An Orange Alert? > http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html > > ~ > > http://www.amyking.org/blog > > ---- > > > > --------------------------------- > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. From jforjames at aol.com Fri Sep 21 16:28:05 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:28:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Writing as Performance Message-ID: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> http://www.harvardmagazine.com/2007/09/p-writing-as-performance.html Writing as Performance Revealing "the calculation that underlies the appearance of effortlessness" by Stephen Greenblatt After the speeches, I joined the line waiting to shake the president?s hand. When my turn came, a strange impulse came over me that I cannot adequately explain and certainly cannot justify. This was a moment when rumors of the Lewinsky affair were circulating, but before the whole thing had blown up into the grotesque national circus that it soon became. ?Mr. President,? I said, sticking out my hand, ?Don?t you think that Macbeth is a great play about an immensely ambitious man who feels compelled to do things that he knows are politically and morally disastrous?? Clinton looked at me for a moment, still holding my hand, and said, ?I think Macbeth is a great play about someone whose immense ambition has an ethically inadequate object.? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Sep 21 16:29:34 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Next Friday in Brooklyn, NYC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <530327.33940.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ~~ CHRISTOPHER STACKHOUSE , ARACELIS GIRMAY and DURIEL E. HARRIS ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, Quest Editor Friday, September 28th @ 7 P.M. ~~ ARACELIS GIRMAY writes poetry, fiction, & essays. Originally from Santa Ana, California, she earned degrees from Connecticut College & NYU. Girmay is a Cave Canem Fellow & former Watson Fellow. Her poems have been published in Callaloo, Bellevue Literary Review, Indiana Review, and Ploughshares, among others. Her book of poems, Teeth, will be published by Curbstone Press: summer, 2007. CHRISTOPHER STACKHOUSE the author of "Slip" (Corollary Press, 2005) and co-author with writer John Keene on the collaborative book "Seismosis" (1913 Press, 2006), which features Keene's text and Stackhouse's drawings. He is an editor for literary journal Fence Magazine, a Cave Canem Writer Fellow, a 2005 Fellow in Poetry New York Foundation For The Arts, and Bard College, Milton Avery Graduate School of the Arts, M.F.A. Writing Candidate. Heralded as one of three Chicago poets for the 21st century by WBEZ Chicago Public Radio, DURIEL E. HARRIS is a co-founder of the Black Took Collective and Poetry Editor for Obsidian III. Drag (Elixir Press, 2003), her first book, was hailed by Black Issues Book Review as one of the best poetry volumes of the year. She is currently at work on AMNESIAC, a media art project (poetry volume, DVD, sound recording, website) funded in part by the University of California Santa Barbara Center for Black Studies Race and Technology Initiative. AMNESIAC writings appear or are forthcoming in Stone Canoe, nocturnes, The Encyclopedia Project, Mixed Blood, and The Ringing Ear. A performing poet/sound artist, Harris is a Cave Canem fellow, recent resident at The MacDowell Colony, and member of the free jazz ensemble Douglas Ewart & Inventions. She teaches English at St. Lawrence University in upstate New York. ~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 21 16:49:52 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:49:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] prizes, tragicomic poems In-Reply-To: <906798D9-36E2-46A4-AB79-4B53760F5DAA@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <00a101c7fc90$f65452c0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Hi Crisman, If this list wants to start an award series, I'd suggest the New Poetry Prize. Sounds pretty good, actually. I've posted something new on wordstrumpet about all these issues: "Poetic License and the Powers That Be" (cribbing my title from an old interview, but the thoughts are fresh): http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ Thanks for your kind comments about the humor-in-poetry roundtable at Jacket. I think there are lots of poems that encompass both tragic and comic elements -- beyond Prufrock and The Waste Land -- at least most (but not all) of the ones that make my heart sing. How about this one, from a guy who (I suppose like of all us) can sometimes seem to parody himself, but doesn't, I think, here: Marching Music Our history is both tragic and comic. Beat the big drum, fellows! Horsemen of the Apocalypse, What fun it was to pull your horses' tails! The earth trembled. Mighty towers collapsed. Towers of chairs still warm With backsides of kings and queens, Towers of pisspots, too, Where our philosophers sat thinking. We stood with our mouths open Admiring the fashionable black hoods The horses and the coachmen wore As they hauled off the trash to the infinite. Beat the big drum, fellows! On the Square of Eternal Happiness A woman ran by shrieking, Hugging a blood-stained shirt. --Charles Simic If anybody else wants to read the humor roundtable, it's here: http://jacketmagazine.com/33/humpo-discussion.shtml Best wishes, Rachel http://wordstrumpet.blogspot.com/ From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 21 17:09:47 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:09:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pushcart In-Reply-To: <8C9C9BB87147AE9-744-6067@WEBMAIL-MB10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00a501c7fc93$be390b30$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Hi Jim, There's not much on the Pushcart website because Henderson doesn't much care for technology, or that's my understanding -- probably a huge sacrifice for them to have a website at all. I believe he founded something called the Lead Pencil Society, inspired by Henry David Thoreau: http://books.google.com/books?id=aosQ_vOMH_IC&pg=PT173&lpg=PT173&dq=%22lead+ pencil+society%22+%22bill+henderson%22&source=web&ots=9vygDustxv&sig=ywp8-JG WD_yrg-uQwYejo2fGKqQ As for whether the anthologies are nicely done -- they're well-executed, neat and clean, but whether you'd like the content, I don't know. All best, Rachel ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:36 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Pushcart http://www.pushcartprize.com/index.htm Not much on their website. No list of winners. Nothing about the judging. I don't own any of their annual anthologies? Are they nicely done? Finnegan ________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Sep 21 21:21:52 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:21:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] How Can I Convince You ... In-Reply-To: <239879.77058.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <239879.77058.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46F46E30.2040201@opus40.org> I'm convinced, but these days it's really hard to get into NYC. amy king wrote: > to meet me here for some free wine and cheese, among things? > > d.a levy lives: celebrating the renegade press > > Tuesday, 25 Sep 2007 | 6 P.M. > > ACA Galleries > 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. > (bet. 10th and 11th avenues) > NYC > > Tues. Sept. 25 > BlazeVOX Books > Kenmore, N.Y.) > > Featuring readings from > > Joel Chace > Amy King > Ruth Lepson > Douglas Manson > Kyle Schlesinger > Michael Ruby > Ryan Daley > Meghan Punschke > > and music from > Compass Jazz > > > Oct. 30 Talisman House (Jersey City, N.J.) > Nov. 27 Big Game Books (Washington, D.C.) > Dec. 18 Six NYC Presses: Belladonna Books, Cy Gist Press, Futurepoem > Books, Kitchen Press, Litmus Press/Aufgabe, Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs > > The season runs through July and will also feature: > Abraham Lincoln (Ashland, Ore.) > Instance Press (Boulder, Co.; New York City; Richmond, Va.) > Outside Voices (Charlottesville, Va.) > Effing Press (Austin, Texas) > Ixnay Press (Philadelphia) > and more... > > http://www.amyking.org/events/56/ > > > > --- > > Reviews of I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU > > Matt Hart / Coldfront Magazine > http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/06/im_the_man_who_.html > > Mark Lamoureux / BOOG City > http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/bc43.pdf > > Nick Piombino / fait accompli > http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/2007_03_18_archive.html > > Thomas Fink / Galatea Resurrects > http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/2007/05/im-man-who-loves-you-by-amy-king.html > > > ~ > > Recent Review of ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI > > Adam Fieled / Stoning the Devil > http://adamfieled.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-review-amy-king-antidote-for-alibi.html > > > ~ > > What To Wear During An Orange Alert? > http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html > > ~ > > http://www.amyking.org/blog > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places > on > Yahoo! Travel. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 22 09:45:52 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:45:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries In-Reply-To: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> A reminder for those interested: the book is ready for mailing. (I've gone ahead and mailed copies to a few of you who said you'd sent in orders even though I haven't received those orders yet, by the way. Won't mention any names.) For details on the book and how to order it, go to http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Sep 22 11:27:29 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:27:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries In-Reply-To: <46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> References: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> <46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46F53461.1050807@opus40.org> I've put in my order -- hope you got it. But it's possible the credit card may not go through -- I just discovered I ordered a bunch of things using an old, no-longer-active card., and your book may have been one of them If so, let me know, and I'll get you the correct one. Bob Grumman wrote: > A reminder for those interested: the book is ready for mailing. (I've > gone ahead and mailed copies to a few of you who said you'd sent in > orders even though I haven't received those orders yet, by the way. > Won't mention any names.) For details on the book and how to order > it, go to http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Sep 22 11:43:30 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:43:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries References: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com><46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> <46F53461.1050807@opus40.org> Message-ID: <010101c7fd2f$53a12b30$ecaf3452@ANNY> Tad, is it difficult to have PayPal? It would be much easier for me to order through PayPal than sending my numbers via email. From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries > I've put in my order -- hope you got it. > > But it's possible the credit card may not go through -- I just discovered > I ordered a bunch of things using an old, no-longer-active card., and your > book may have been one of them If so, let me know, and I'll get you the > correct one. > > Bob Grumman wrote: >> A reminder for those interested: the book is ready for mailing. (I've >> gone ahead and mailed copies to a few of you who said you'd sent in >> orders even though I haven't received those orders yet, by the way. >> Won't mention any names.) For details on the book and how to order it, >> go to http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html >> >> --Bob G. >> From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 22 13:41:23 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:41:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries In-Reply-To: <46F53461.1050807@opus40.org> References: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com><46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> <46F53461.1050807@opus40.org> Message-ID: <46F553C3.1050404@nut-n-but.net> > I've put in my order -- hope you got it. > > But it's possible the credit card may not go through -- I just > discovered I ordered a bunch of things using an old, no-longer-active > card., and your book may have been one of them If so, let me know, and > I'll get you the correct one. I never got your e.mail, Tad. I just went to me book's webpage and tried the order box. It may be malfunctioning. It would be best to e.mail me in the regular way, using bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net, I think. Remember to include your mailing address. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 22 13:44:38 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:44:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries In-Reply-To: <010101c7fd2f$53a12b30$ecaf3452@ANNY> References: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com><46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> <46F53461.1050807@opus40.org> <010101c7fd2f$53a12b30$ecaf3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <46F55486.5070306@nut-n-but.net> PayPal seems to work fine for others but I got into a snarl with them and can't use it until I've faxed them a copy of my birth certificate and driver's license, and I don't have a fax, and am disgusted with them, plus they charge for their service. But how about regular mail, Anny. It'll be slow but I'm sure it's safe. I've gotten American money from all over the world in the mail. --Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Sep 22 13:25:27 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:25:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries In-Reply-To: <010101c7fd2f$53a12b30$ecaf3452@ANNY> References: <8C9CAA50D07CCDB-C70-B9DC@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com><46F51C90.8070402@nut-n-but.net> <46F53461.1050807@opus40.org> <010101c7fd2f$53a12b30$ecaf3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <46F55007.1030802@opus40.org> No, actually it's really easy, and it would probably be a good thing for Bob to set up a PayPal account. Anny Ballardini wrote: > Tad, is it difficult to have PayPal? It would be much easier for me to > order through PayPal than sending my numbers via email. > > From: "TheOldMole" > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 5:27 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] My book on haiku and related poetries > > >> I've put in my order -- hope you got it. >> >> But it's possible the credit card may not go through -- I just >> discovered I ordered a bunch of things using an old, no-longer-active >> card., and your book may have been one of them If so, let me know, >> and I'll get you the correct one. >> >> Bob Grumman wrote: >>> A reminder for those interested: the book is ready for mailing. >>> (I've gone ahead and mailed copies to a few of you who said you'd >>> sent in orders even though I haven't received those orders yet, by >>> the way. Won't mention any names.) For details on the book and how >>> to order it, go to http://bobgrumman.com/FromHaikuToLyriku/index.html >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From ccooley at overdomain.com Sat Sep 22 16:54:06 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:54:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: How Can I Convince You In-Reply-To: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: I'll be able to come next time-- I'm moving to NY for three months starting 9-28..... Please save some wine and cheese. > Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:05:52 -0700 (PDT) > From: amy king > Subject: [New-Poetry] How Can I Convince You ... > > to meet me here for some free wine and cheese, among things? > > d.a levy lives: celebrating the renegade press > > Tuesday, 25 Sep 2007 | 6 P.M. > > ACA Galleries > 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. > (bet. 10th and 11th avenues) > NYC > > Tues. Sept. 25 > BlazeVOX Books > Kenmore, N.Y.) > > Featuring readings from > > Joel Chace > Amy King ... From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 23 16:36:28 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:36:28 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Does anyone know anything about websites, especially in North America, being unavailable at the moment? I've been trying to access LEME (Lexicon of Modern English) for the last day or so, without success. It's hosted by the University of Toronto. Their main site is up, but the library links as a whole seem to be down, not just LEME. There are also a couple of major financial sites in the US that seem to be unobtainable. Odd. Is there a cyber attack or something underway? Or is it just coincidence? Anyone else been having problems with sites that should be easily available? Robin From asurkont at localnet.com Sun Sep 23 16:46:38 2007 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:46:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems In-Reply-To: <001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: Peerless Insurance's web site is down too. Trying to access it since last night. Best, manda On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:36:28 -0400, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Does anyone know anything about websites, especially in North America, > being > unavailable at the moment? > > I've been trying to access LEME (Lexicon of Modern English) for the last > day > or so, without success. It's hosted by the University of Toronto. Their > main site is up, but the library links as a whole seem to be down, not > just > LEME. > > There are also a couple of major financial sites in the US that seem to > be > unobtainable. > > Odd. Is there a cyber attack or something underway? > > Or is it just coincidence? > > Anyone else been having problems with sites that should be easily > available? > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Sep 23 16:50:41 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:50:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems In-Reply-To: References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <547E1546-DD88-4FE0-96AD-C15DFC1C2EF2@ripon.edu> I've not noticed any problems surfing about today. If the LEME site you mean is this one, I also just was able to get in without problem: http://leme.library.utoronto.ca/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 23, 2007, at 3:46 PM, Amanda Surkont wrote: > Peerless Insurance's web site is down too. Trying to access it > since last night. > > Best, manda > > > On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:36:28 -0400, Robin Hamilton > wrote: > >> Does anyone know anything about websites, especially in North >> America, being >> unavailable at the moment? >> >> I've been trying to access LEME (Lexicon of Modern English) for >> the last day >> or so, without success. It's hosted by the University of >> Toronto. Their >> main site is up, but the library links as a whole seem to be down, >> not just >> LEME. >> >> There are also a couple of major financial sites in the US that >> seem to be >> unobtainable. >> >> Odd. Is there a cyber attack or something underway? >> >> Or is it just coincidence? >> >> Anyone else been having problems with sites that should be easily >> available? >> >> Robin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 23 17:02:21 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:02:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <547E1546-DD88-4FE0-96AD-C15DFC1C2EF2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <004201c7fe25$14387d80$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> David: << I've not noticed any problems surfing about today. If the LEME site you mean is this one, I also just was able to get in without problem: http://leme.library.utoronto.ca/ >> Yeah, that's the one. Anny Ballardini said the same as you, in a post replying to my plaintive wail on poetryetc, but when I tried to access it via Anny's link, which was as yours above and the one I'd been trying, I still couldn't get through. So it looks as if the problem is with me, rather than The Universe. But part of it is that while I know I can't access LEME, I don't know why, or the entire range of what else might be unavailable. One of Rumsfeldt's unknown unknowns. Or even whether Amanda and I are having the same problem, or it's all just coincidence. BLEH!!! (and thanks for the prompt help.) Robin From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 23 17:18:46 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:18:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> I just tried Peeless Insurance (via google) and the site came up OK for me. This is getting curiouser and curiouser. The sites that I know are giving me problems -- LEME and a couple of financial sites -- are all ones I've used fairly frequently in the past, but suddenly don't seem to be able to access. Whereas David and Anny have no problems with LEME, while I can get through to the site that Amanda couldn't access. Anyone know what might cause this particular pattern of problems? Is there a virus which would cause this, that's somehow linking into my websearch history? (Sheesh, now I'm *really getting paranoid!) Robin > Peerless Insurance's web site is down too. Trying to access it since last > night. > > Best, manda From asurkont at localnet.com Sun Sep 23 17:55:24 2007 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:55:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems In-Reply-To: <005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: Hmmmmm..... best, manda On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:18:46 -0400, Robin Hamilton wrote: > I just tried Peeless Insurance (via google) and the site came up OK for > me. > > This is getting curiouser and curiouser. The sites that I know are > giving me problems -- LEME and a couple of financial sites -- are all > ones I've used fairly frequently in the past, but suddenly don't seem to > be able to access. > > Whereas David and Anny have no problems with LEME, while I can get > through to the site that Amanda couldn't access. > > Anyone know what might cause this particular pattern of problems? Is > there a virus which would cause this, that's somehow linking into my > websearch history? > > (Sheesh, now I'm *really getting paranoid!) > > Robin > > >> Peerless Insurance's web site is down too. Trying to access it since >> last night. >> >> Best, manda > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 23 18:03:15 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:03:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <005e01c7fe2d$8b38d710$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Add to my personal list the LA Times!!! (Even trying a link from *inside google news doesn't get me through to it, so it looks as if something is blocking my access to, say, anything with latimes.com in it *anywhere!!!! Or leme.utoronto.ca, or whatever ...) Robin > Hmmmmm..... > > best, manda From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Sep 23 19:02:19 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:02:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems In-Reply-To: <005e01c7fe2d$8b38d710$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <005e01c7fe2d$8b38d710$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <5FE9CAB4-53B1-4D78-94F0-96C486AE0B58@earthlink.net> LA Times works well here too. Hal Today's Special Death on All Fronts http://www.bigbridge.org/deathindex.htm fr. Big Bridge 12 Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 23, 2007, at 6:03 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote: > Add to my personal list the LA Times!!! > > (Even trying a link from *inside google news doesn't get me through > to it, so it looks as if something is blocking my access to, say, > anything with latimes.com in it *anywhere!!!! Or leme.utoronto.ca, > or whatever ...) > > Robin > > >> Hmmmmm..... >> >> best, manda > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 23 19:25:50 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:25:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005e01c7fe2d$8b38d710$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <5FE9CAB4-53B1-4D78-94F0-96C486AE0B58@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007701c7fe39$15d7be80$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> > LA Times works well here too. > > Hal Yeah, looks as if whatever it is, it's specific to me rather than some sort of worldwide cyberattack. Which is useful to know as it narrows down the locale in which to address my problem. So to speak. Robin From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 23 19:56:18 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:56:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems In-Reply-To: <007701c7fe39$15d7be80$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005e01c7fe2d$8b38d710$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <5FE9CAB4-53B1-4D78-94F0-96C486AE0B58@earthlink.net> <007701c7fe39$15d7be80$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <8C9CC54781600DB-C08-469B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Robin, you probably violated the Patriot Act, perhaps inadvertently, and now you're persona non grata over here. Sorry, but the virtual borders must be protected from your kind. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Robin Hamilton Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 7:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Website problems > LA Times works well here too.? >? > Hal? ? Yeah, looks as if whatever it is, it's specific to me rather than some sort of worldwide cyberattack.? ? Which is useful to know as it narrows down the locale in which to address my problem.? ? So to speak.? ? Robin ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 23 20:08:50 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:08:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pushcart In-Reply-To: <00a501c7fc93$be390b30$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: <8C9CC5638281E3F-C08-471D@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Rachel, Henderson sounds like a fine fellow. It's strange how much I depend on the web for information. One almost expects a?significant web presence these days.?I still use lead pencils, so we have that in common. Glad to hear the anthology is presentable. That's probably the real prize of the prize. To be published among your peers. And it makes a difference if it's laid out well, a nice clean font, enough space between the poems,?and few/no typos, etc. Nothing is worse than being honored and then being dishonored when inadequate attention is paid to the physical object meant to present to the world?the awarded work. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Loden Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 5:09 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Pushcart Hi Jim, There's not much on the Pushcart website because Henderson doesn't much care for technology, or that's my understanding -- probably a huge sacrifice for them to have a website at all. I believe he founded something called the Lead Pencil Society, inspired by Henry David Thoreau: http://books.google.com/books?id=aosQ_vOMH_IC&pg=PT173&lpg=PT173&dq=%22lead+ pencil+society%22+%22bill+henderson%22&source=web&ots=9vygDustxv&sig=ywp8-JG WD_yrg-uQwYejo2fGKqQ As for whether the anthologies are nicely done -- they're well-executed, neat and clean, but whether you'd like the content, I don't know. All best, Rachel ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:36 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Pushcart http://www.pushcartprize.com/index.htm Not much on their website. No list of winners. Nothing about the judging. I don't own any of their annual anthologies? Are they nicely done? Finnegan ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 23 20:13:17 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:13:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Actor rehearses talking on the big white phone Message-ID: <8C9CC56D73D702D-C08-473F@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/custom/today/bal-to.bukowski22sep22,0,5383572.story With act, actor is versed in poet's life Actor Wayne Willinger says, "I want to be [Charles] Bukowski. He has such a cult following." (Sun photo by Christopher T. Assaf / September 21, 2007) By Sam Sessa Sun Reporter September 22, 2007 Five years ago, actor Wayne Willinger knew almost nothing about the life and works of the late author Charles Bukowski. Tonight, he will become him. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Sun Sep 23 20:22:32 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:22:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] San Jose poesy happening Message-ID: <8C9CC58227B8F91-C08-4797@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6976921 Savoring California's poetry scene SECOND S.J. FESTIVAL DRAWS 100 By Kim Vo Mercury News Article Launched: 09/23/2007 02:02:34 AM PDT Shaking their wet umbrellas, the poets trickled upstairs. The unseasonable rain had forced the festival at History Park indoors. No matter. They had come for poetry and inspiration, not pretty green leaves. And so they sat, occasionally scribbling in their ever-present notebooks, as Robert Hass considered California's shaping fires, Victoria Chang channeled downbeat women and Diem Jones spoke in a hypnotic cadence punctuated by an accompanying guitar and the crowd's appreciative "Hmmmmms." Together, the offered an eclectic sampling for the California Poets Festival, presented by the Poetry Center San Jose. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 23 21:32:29 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:32:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Website problems In-Reply-To: <8C9CC54781600DB-C08-469B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> References: <200709221600.l8MG05HL027841@wiz.cath.vt.edu><001a01c7fe21$6b69a 510$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005201c7fe27$54516ab0$0202a8c0@CoreDuo><005e01c7fe2d$8b38d710$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <5FE9CAB4-53B1-4D78-94F0-96C486AE0B58@earthlink.net><007701c7fe39$15d7be80$0202a8c0@CoreDuo> <8C9CC54781600DB-C08-469B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46F713AD.4030300@nut-n-but.net> jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Robin, you probably violated the Patriot Act, Hmm, how'd you know he just received a copy of my book, James? Agent G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Sep 24 06:57:55 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:57:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Gender Trouble", Modern/Post-Modern Literature and Art Message-ID: <003901c7fe99$c2f07b60$e4a83252@ANNY> >From: Gordon MARSHALL [mailto:gordonmarshall at halic.edu.tr] >Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:15 AM CALL FOR PAPERS: "Gender Trouble" Modern/Post-Modern Literature and Art We are seeking papers for a symposium to be held at Hali? University in Istanbul, Turkey, 17-18 April 2008. Papers that analyze gender related issues in literature and the arts from the beginning of the 20th century to the present are welcome, as are those that take largely theoretical and interdisciplinary approaches. Proposals should not exceed 300 words for papers lasting 20 minutes. Papers may consider but are not limited to the following topics: - (Self-)Representations of women/men in literature and the arts - Gender and life writing - Gender in theory as theory - Performing gender - Linguistic representations of gender - Gender in translation - Gender and ethics - Gender and contemporary film / photography - Gender and mass media / popular culture - Gender and public space Please send your proposal and a brief curriculum vitae by January 7, 2008 to: halic2006 at yahoo.com Selected contributors will be invited to expand their papers into essays to be published in a collection. We are looking forward to your proposals and hope to see you here in Istanbul. Dr. S?rma Soran Gumpert Department of American Culture and Literature Faculty of Arts and Sciences Halic University Istanbul, Turkey From jforjames at aol.com Mon Sep 24 20:41:11 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:41:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homage to MM Message-ID: <8C9CD23E7A86BAA-C78-2731@MBLK-M37.sysops.aol.com> Homage to Marcel Marceau ... ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Sep 25 10:57:01 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:57:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics Message-ID: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu> I was just browsing on Amazon, wondering when the new Stuart Dischell collection (*Backwards Days*) will be coming out, and discovered on its page that his publisher is listed as "Penguin (Non-Classics)." Now that's something to aspire to. It's almost as good as Keillor's Pretty Good Goods. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Sep 25 11:06:57 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:06:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics In-Reply-To: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu> References: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Something to aspire to indeed--especially if you want living readers. Hal Escucha, ve y calla, si quieres vivir en paz. Listen, watch and be silent, if you want to live in peace. --Spanish proverb Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Sep 25, 2007, at 10:57 AM, David Graham wrote: > I was just browsing on Amazon, wondering when the new Stuart > Dischell collection (*Backwards Days*) will be coming out, and > discovered on its page that his publisher is listed as "Penguin > (Non-Classics)." > > Now that's something to aspire to. It's almost as good as > Keillor's Pretty Good Goods. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Tue Sep 25 11:19:00 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:19:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics In-Reply-To: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu> References: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46F926E4.2090301@opus40.org> I consider myself a classic of non-classicity. David Graham wrote: > I was just browsing on Amazon, wondering when the new Stuart Dischell > collection (*Backwards Days*) will be coming out, and discovered on > its page that his publisher is listed as "Penguin (Non-Classics)." > > Now that's something to aspire to. It's almost as good as Keillor's > Pretty Good Goods. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Sep 25 11:20:12 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:20:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Knotty Message-ID: <45715819-1BC6-46C1-916B-DBA0C5EF3817@ripon.edu> In his always interesting blog Bill Knott wipes the floor with a poet he calls Robert Halfhass. Just thought you should know. http://billknott.typepad.com/billknott/2007/09/welcome-to-t-12.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Sep 25 14:01:12 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:01:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics In-Reply-To: <46F926E4.2090301@opus40.org> References: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu> <46F926E4.2090301@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8C9CDB5318A11F6-1EC-3EE9@WEBMAIL-MC02.sysops.aol.com> non-classifiable would be good too...but Bob would probably say 'bosh' to that. -- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:19 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics I consider myself a classic of non-classicity.? ? David Graham wrote:? > I was just browsing on Amazon, wondering when the new Stuart Dischell > collection (*Backwards Days*) will be coming out, and discovered on > its page that his publisher is listed as "Penguin (Non-Classics)."? >? > Now that's something to aspire to. It's almost as good as Keillor's > Pretty Good Goods. . . .? >? >? > ========================================? > David Graham? > grahamd at ripon.edu ? >? > Home Page:? > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html? >? > Poetry Library:? > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html? > ==========================================? >? >? >? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >? > _______________________________________________? > New-Poetry mailing list? > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? > ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Sep 25 15:01:40 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:01:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics References: <1F125AC0-EE09-4DAC-A0CA-21B4D7053B47@ripon.edu><46F926E4.2090301@opus40.org> <8C9CDB5318A11F6-1EC-3EE9@WEBMAIL-MC02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00db01c7ffa6$819506f0$70a93452@ANNY> he would taxonomically record you under a classic of non-classicity ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics non-classifiable would be good too...but Bob would probably say 'bosh' to that. -- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:19 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Nonclassics I consider myself a classic of non-classicity. David Graham wrote: > I was just browsing on Amazon, wondering when the new Stuart Dischell > collection (*Backwards Days*) will be coming out, and discovered on > its page that his publisher is listed as "Penguin (Non-Classics)." > > Now that's something to aspire to. It's almost as good as Keillor's > Pretty Good Goods. . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Sep 26 09:35:27 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:35:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Steven Birthday Bash, Sat. Oct. 6th, with James Longenbach Message-ID: (I apologize, if you rec'd this announcement more than once. JF) -- 12th Annual 'Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash' Saturday October 6th, 2007, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford, CT Reception begins at 6:30 P.M. Featured Speaker- JAMES LONGENBACH "An Examination of Wallace Stevens in a Time of War" "The pressure of the contemporaneous from the time of the beginning of the World War to the present time, has been constant and extreme. No one can have lived apart in happy oblivion." -Wallace Stevens James Longenbach is the author of three books of poems, most recently Draft of a Letter, and of several works of literary criticism, including Wallace Stevens: The Plain Sense of Things. His poems and essays have appeared in the New Yorker, the New Republic, the Paris Review, and the New York Times Book Review. Recently the Bain-Swiggett Professor of Poetry at Princeton University, he is currently the Joseph H. Gilmore Professor of English at the University of Rochester. He also teaches in the Warren Wilson MFA Program for Writers After Program: serving Birthday Cake and Champagne! Ticket: $35 per person; send check payable to: Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT 06103. Or call to reserve your tickets at the door: 860-695-6360. Supported by the Connecticut Center for the Book at Hartford Public Library with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens. For more information, contact James Finnegan, 860-508-2810 jforjames at aol.com NOTE: Another Stevens related event... SECRETARIES OF THE MOON Event Type: One Book for Greater Hartford Date: 10/18/2007 Start Time: 6:30 PM End Time: 7:45 PM Description: Join Beverly Coyle for an evening exploration of the relationship between Hartford's Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Wallace Stevens and Cuban poet and editor Jose Rodriguez Feo as interpreted in the many letters between the two men spanning the years 1944-54. Presenter Beverly Coyle, a playwright and a member of the Yale Divinity School faculty, is co-editor of the book, "Secretaries of the Moon, the Letters of Wallace Stevens and Jose Rodriguez Feo." This Hartford History Center program is being held in conjunction with the library's 2007 One Book showcasing the novel, oeDreaming in Cuban? by Christina Garcia. Library: Downtown Contact: Brenda Miller Contact Number: 695-6347 Presenter: Beverly Coyle -- NOTE: Another Stevens related event... SECRETARIES OF THE MOON Event Type: One Book for Greater Hartford Date: 10/18/2007 Start Time: 6:30 PM End Time: 7:45 PM Description: Join Beverly Coyle for an evening exploration of the relationship between Hartford's Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Wallace Stevens and Cuban poet and editor Jose Rodriguez Feo as interpreted in the many letters between the two men spanning the years 1944-54. Presenter Beverly Coyle, a playwright and a member of the Yale Divinity School faculty, is co-editor of the book, "Secretaries of the Moon, the Letters of Wallace Stevens and Jose Rodriguez Feo." This Hartford History Center program is being held in conjunction with the library's 2007 One Book showcasing the novel, oeDreaming in Cuban? by Christina Garcia. Library: Downtown Contact: Brenda Miller Contact Number: 695-6347 Presenter: Beverly Coyle ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Sep 26 10:01:20 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:01:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw Message-ID: _http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=32a57c63-8de7- 4ac6-b5eb-f8c2c9a50ebb&k=94943_ (http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=32a57c63-8de7-4ac6-b5eb-f8c2c9a50ebb&k=94943) Poets will bare their souls, and everything else, tonight Grania Litwin, Times Colonist Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 Some raw truths will be exposed at the Solstice Caf? today, when seven of Victoria's slam poets bare their bodies and souls and perform their own original writings. The Poetry in the Raw event is a fundraiser to help several of the poets travel to Halifax, where they will compete against eight other teams in the National Slam Competition. It takes place next week at the Canadian Festival of Spoken Word. "The readers will be disrobed and unfettered tonight," promised shayne ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Sep 26 10:03:38 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:03:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Plumly's OLD HEART Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/2007 6:05:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wwnorton at wwnorton.pmailus.com writes: Old Heart, New Poems OLD HEART Poems by Stanley Plumly In his new collection, Stanley Plumly confronts and celebrates mortality - in the detailed natural world, in the immediacy of the loss of friends, and in personal encounters. Archetypal, sometimes even allegorical, the poems in Old Heart amount to a sustained meditation. The _American Academy of Arts and Letters_ (http://wwnorton.pmailus.com/pmailweb/ct?d=Dois8ABzAAUAAALtAAFZRA) declared of Plumly that "he has in the last thirty years quietly, steadily, expanded the range of lyric poetry in English . . . [and] reinvigorated our poetry." His ethical rigor and literary modesty combine in Old Heart - his finest book of poetry. _Continued..._ (http://wwnorton.pmailus.com/pmailweb/ct?d=Dois8ABzAAUAAASkAAFZRA) _A Conversation with Stanley Plumly_ (http://wwnorton.pmailus.com/pmailweb/ct?d=Dois8ABzAAUAAAXHAAFZRA) (Kenyon Review) | Read the _Small Spiral Notebook_ (http://wwnorton.pmailus.com/pmailweb/ct?d=Dois8ABzAAUAAAaAAAFZRA) review _About Stanley Plumly_ (http://wwnorton.pmailus.com/pmailweb/ct?d=Dois8ABzAAUAAAg4AAFZRA) | _Buy the Book_ (http://wwnorton.pmailus.com/pmailweb/ct?d=Dois8ABzAAUAAAjBAAFZRA) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 26 12:49:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:49:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Steven Birthday Bash, Sat. Oct. 6th, with James Longenbach References: Message-ID: <002801c8005d$3ea8fd80$cdd73152@ANNY> Happiest BirthDay! Please have a piece of cake for me, ! Thank you, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: finnegan_james at yahoo.com Cc: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Steven Birthday Bash, Sat. Oct. 6th,with James Longenbach (I apologize, if you rec'd this announcement more than once. JF) -- 12th Annual 'Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash' Saturday October 6th, 2007, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford, CT Reception begins at 6:30 P.M. Featured Speaker- JAMES LONGENBACH "An Examination of Wallace Stevens in a Time of War" "The pressure of the contemporaneous from the time of the beginning of the World War to the present time, has been constant and extreme. No one can have lived apart in happy oblivion." -Wallace Stevens James Longenbach is the author of three books of poems, most recently Draft of a Letter, and of several works of literary criticism, including Wallace Stevens: The Plain Sense of Things. His poems and essays have appeared in the New Yorker, the New Republic, the Paris Review, and the New York Times Book Review. Recently the Bain-Swiggett Professor of Poetry at Princeton University, he is currently the Joseph H. Gilmore Professor of English at the University of Rochester. He also teaches in the Warren Wilson MFA Program for Writers After Program: serving Birthday Cake and Champagne! Ticket: $35 per person; send check payable to: Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT 06103. Or call to reserve your tickets at the door: 860-695-6360. Supported by the Connecticut Center for the Book at Hartford Public Library with help from The Friends & Enemies of Wallace Stevens. For more information, contact James Finnegan, 860-508-2810 jforjames at aol.com NOTE: Another Stevens related event... SECRETARIES OF THE MOON Event Type: One Book for Greater Hartford Date: 10/18/2007 Start Time: 6:30 PM End Time: 7:45 PM Description: Join Beverly Coyle for an evening exploration of the relationship between Hartford's Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Wallace Stevens and Cuban poet and editor Jose Rodriguez Feo as interpreted in the many letters between the two men spanning the years 1944-54. Presenter Beverly Coyle, a playwright and a member of the Yale Divinity School faculty, is co-editor of the book, "Secretaries of the Moon, the Letters of Wallace Stevens and Jose Rodriguez Feo." This Hartford History Center program is being held in conjunction with the library's 2007 One Book showcasing the novel, oeDreaming in Cuban? by Christina Garcia. Library: Downtown Contact: Brenda Miller Contact Number: 695-6347 Presenter: Beverly Coyle -- NOTE: Another Stevens related event... SECRETARIES OF THE MOON Event Type: One Book for Greater Hartford Date: 10/18/2007 Start Time: 6:30 PM End Time: 7:45 PM Description: Join Beverly Coyle for an evening exploration of the relationship between Hartford's Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Wallace Stevens and Cuban poet and editor Jose Rodriguez Feo as interpreted in the many letters between the two men spanning the years 1944-54. Presenter Beverly Coyle, a playwright and a member of the Yale Divinity School faculty, is co-editor of the book, "Secretaries of the Moon, the Letters of Wallace Stevens and Jose Rodriguez Feo." This Hartford History Center program is being held in conjunction with the library's 2007 One Book showcasing the novel, oeDreaming in Cuban? by Christina Garcia. Library: Downtown Contact: Brenda Miller Contact Number: 695-6347 Presenter: Beverly Coyle ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 26 12:55:32 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:55:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw References: Message-ID: <004601c8005e$0d604d40$cdd73152@ANNY> Hey, duno'tch wanna _bare_ my soul why do they why ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=32a57c63-8de7-4ac6-b5eb-f8c2c9a50ebb&k=94943 Poets will bare their souls, and everything else, tonight Grania Litwin, Times Colonist Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 Some raw truths will be exposed at the Solstice Caf? today, when seven of Victoria's slam poets bare their bodies and souls and perform their own original writings. The Poetry in the Raw event is a fundraiser to help several of the poets travel to Halifax, where they will compete against eight other teams in the National Slam Competition. It takes place next week at the Canadian Festival of Spoken Word. "The readers will be disrobed and unfettered tonight," promised shayne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 13:45:03 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Friday in Brooklyn ... In-Reply-To: <530327.33940.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <579952.44995.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ~~ CHRISTOPHER STACKHOUSE , ARACELIS GIRMAY and DURIEL E. HARRIS ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, Quest Editor Friday, September 28th @ 7 P.M. ~~ ARACELIS GIRMAY writes poetry, fiction, & essays. Originally from Santa Ana , California , she earned degrees from Connecticut College & NYU. Girmay is a Cave Canem Fellow & former Watson Fellow. Her poems have been published in Callaloo, Bellevue Literary Review, Indiana Review, and Ploughshares, among others. Her book of poems, Teeth, will be published by Curbstone Press: summer, 2007. CHRISTOPHER STACKHOUSE the author of "Slip" (Corollary Press, 2005) and co-author with writer John Keene on the collaborative book "Seismosis" (1913 Press, 2006), which features Keene 's text and Stackhouse's drawings. He is an editor for literary journal Fence Magazine, a Cave Canem Writer Fellow, a 2005 Fellow in Poetry New York Foundation For The Arts, and Bard College , Milton Avery Graduate School of the Arts, M.F.A. Writing Candidate. Heralded as one of three Chicago poets for the 21st century by WBEZ Chicago Public Radio, DURIEL E. HARRIS is a co-founder of the Black Took Collective and Poetry Editor for Obsidian III. Drag (Elixir Press, 2003), her first book, was hailed by Black Issues Book Review as one of the best poetry volumes of the year. She is currently at work on AMNESIAC, a media art project (poetry volume, DVD, sound recording, website) funded in part by the University of California Santa Barbara Center for Black Studies Race and Technology Initiative. AMNESIAC writings appear or are forthcoming in Stone Canoe, nocturnes, The Encyclopedia Project, Mixed Blood, and The Ringing Ear. A performing poet/sound artist, Harris is a Cave Canem fellow, recent resident at The MacDowell Colony, and member of the free jazz ensemble Douglas Ewart & Inventions. She teaches English at St. Lawrence University in upstate New York . ~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CHosea at 92y.org Wed Sep 26 14:03:06 2007 From: CHosea at 92y.org (Chris Hosea) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:03:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This November at the 92nd Street Y: Mary Jo Bang and Dean Young, Saskia Hamilton and Robert Hass Message-ID: Some of the most exciting contemporary American poets will appear at the 92nd Street Y in New York City this November! MARY JO BANG AND DEAN YOUNG Thu, Nov 1 at 8:15 pm 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128 (212) 415-5500 www.92Y.org/poetry Wayne Koestenbaum wrote that Mary Jo Bang's new poetry collection, ELEGY, "recalls the late work of Ingeborg Bachmann in its febrile, recursive lyricism." Ms. Bang was the winner of the "Discovery"/THE NATION Award in 1995, and is the author of four other poetry collections. Of Dean Young, Charles Simic wrote: "This man reminds us that there is nothing more serious than a joke." Mr. Young is the author of seven collections of poems, including EMBRYOYO. SASKIA HAMILTON AND ROBERT HASS Mon, Nov 12 at 8 pm 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128 (212) 415-5500 www.92Y.org/poetry Called an "extremely subtle and fierce" poet by Jorie Graham, Saskia Hamilton is the author of AS FOR DREAM and DIVIDE THESE. Robert Hass's books of poems include FIELD GUIDE, PRAISE, HUMAN WISHES, SUN UNDER WOOD and TIME AND MATERIALS. An environmentalist, essayist, translator and former United States Poet Laureate, Mr. Hass has twice won the National Book Critics Circle Award. SPECIAL OFFER FOR NEW POETRY LIST SUBSCRIBERS: The first five (5) readers to email me at chosea at 92Y.org will receive a pair of free passes to one of these readings! Chris Hosea Administrative Assistant 92nd Street Y - Unterberg Poetry Center chosea at 92y.org www.92y.org/poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 26 14:25:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:25:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: KIRSTEN JUSTESEN EXHIBITION... Message-ID: <007301c8006a$aa753300$cdd73152@ANNY> KIRSTEN JUSTESEN EXHIBITION... It would be lovely to have a couple of the best on this list in Venice! See : Residencies, :-) ICE SCRIPT / PAROLE DI GHIACCIO KIRSTEN JUSTESEN at ARCHIVIO EMILY HARVEY, VENICE october 6. - november 3. 2007 wednesday to saturday 5:00 - 8:00 p.m. The Emily Harvey Foundation welcomes you to the opening, Friday October 5th. 18:00 - 20:00. San Polo 387 second floor. TEL +39 041 522 4929. www.emilyharveyfoundation.org Press download:http://www.nordimage.dk/justesen/venice/ www.kirstenjustesen.com Apologies for unwanted or double emails. Please send corrections or reply this mail with REMOVE No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.487 / Virus Database: 269.13.27/1020 - Release Date: 20-09-2007 12:07 ------ End of Forwarded Message ------ End of Forwarded Message -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 153594 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3282 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 26 14:54:00 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:54:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles Message-ID: <8C9CE85BC22C8F5-678-244B@webmail-me09.sysops.aol.com> http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ Titles We Have Known September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith The ten most common titles of submissions that we?ve received in the past year: 1? Remember 2? Smoke 3? Revelation 4? Work 5? Grace 6? Waiting 7? Insomnia 8? Voyeur 9? Butterfly 10 Reunion Since you were wondering. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 26 15:00:06 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:00:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw In-Reply-To: <004601c8005e$0d604d40$cdd73152@ANNY> References: <004601c8005e$0d604d40$cdd73152@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C9CE86964BF015-678-24C7@webmail-me09.sysops.aol.com> I have a streaking suspicion this is the start of?a new poetry school: "The Exhibitionists". -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw Hey, duno'tch wanna _bare_ my soul why do they why ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=32a57c63-8de7-4ac6-b5eb-f8c2c9a50ebb&k=94943 ? Poets will bare their souls, and everything else, tonight Grania Litwin, Times Colonist Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 Some raw truths will be exposed at the Solstice Caf? today, when seven of Victoria's slam poets bare their bodies and souls and perform their own original writings. ? The Poetry in the Raw event is a fundraiser to help several of the poets travel to Halifax, where they will compete against eight other teams in the National Slam Competition. It takes place next week at the Canadian Festival of Spoken Word. ? "The readers will be disrobed and unfettered tonight," promised shayne See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Sep 26 15:19:44 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:19:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles In-Reply-To: <8C9CE85BC22C8F5-678-244B@webmail-me09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001101c80072$3828aa40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Now to write a title with all of them in. (Wish I had the time.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:54 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ Titles We Have Known September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith The ten most common titles of submissions that we've received in the past year: 1 Remember 2 Smoke 3 Revelation 4 Work 5 Grace 6 Waiting 7 Insomnia 8 Voyeur 9 Butterfly 10 Reunion Since you were wondering. _____ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail ! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 26 15:22:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:22:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles References: <8C9CE85BC22C8F5-678-244B@webmail-me09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00aa01c80072$8b678c30$cdd73152@ANNY> no Opening and Closing Numbers, I see, well that was o_rigeenal (the more I work the worse I become, you have to excuse me, never been this buried before...) ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ Titles We Have Known September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith The ten most common titles of submissions that we?ve received in the past year: 1 Remember 2 Smoke 3 Revelation 4 Work 5 Grace 6 Waiting 7 Insomnia 8 Voyeur 9 Butterfly 10 Reunion Since you were wondering. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Sep 26 16:06:39 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:06:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles In-Reply-To: <001101c80072$3828aa40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C9CE8FE24A941A-894-2937@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Or a poem-- To remember is revelation for a voyeur whose only work is insomnia, without reunion or grace, waiting for that butterfly of smoke. -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:19 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles Now to write a title with all of them in. (Wish I had the time.) ? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:54 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles ? http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ Titles We Have Known September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith The ten most common titles of submissions that we?ve received in the past year: 1? Remember 2? Smoke 3? Revelation 4? Work 5? Grace 6? Waiting 7? Insomnia 8? Voyeur 9? Butterfly 10 Reunion Since you were wondering. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Sep 26 16:11:39 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:11:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles References: <8C9CE8FE24A941A-894-2937@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00d101c80079$735a4e00$cdd73152@ANNY> remember the smoke of revelation work with grace waiting for insomnia (it'll hit _don't worry_ voyeur of the butterfly reunion ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles Or a poem-- To remember is revelation for a voyeur whose only work is insomnia, without reunion or grace, waiting for that butterfly of smoke. -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:19 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles Now to write a title with all of them in. (Wish I had the time.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:54 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ Titles We Have Known September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith The ten most common titles of submissions that we?ve received in the past year: 1 Remember 2 Smoke 3 Revelation 4 Work 5 Grace 6 Waiting 7 Insomnia 8 Voyeur 9 Butterfly 10 Reunion Since you were wondering. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 14:09:50 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:09:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In Print: Shelves & Screens Message-ID: <648208b60709271109y43d5042ds38a70413e37ff2d@mail.gmail.com> The following is at the Luna Park Review page (http://lunaparkreview.blogspot.com/): Wanted: Lit Mag Reviewers Submit: lunaparkreview at gmail.com Luna Park's visitors are growing daily (2,500 a month at last count). Be an active part of the carnival of the little magazine world, a place rightfully described by the recent O' Henry Prize as "the greatest evidence of our vibrant literary world." And: Please, subscribe to a lit mag. Keep good publishing alive. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And, for reviews of literature online: RelativeLinks: http://www.poetserv.com/relativelinks/home.html As far as I know, we're still alive and need fresh material. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ From by.tjmst at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 14:16:44 2007 From: by.tjmst at gmail.com (BY TJMST) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:16:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 39, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: <200709271600.l8RG06HL007195@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709271600.l8RG06HL007195@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5908b9b20709271116m3488594es48d0226f8ea13611@mail.gmail.com> sir could you help me to search and find the NEW POETRY DIGEST WHERE Linda Greg said LOVE IS NOT LESS BECAUSE OF SPIRIT.....i WILL APPRECIATE IT IMMENSELY. GBEMI TIJANI MST On 9/27/07, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu < new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu> wrote: > > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Tired Titles (jforjames at aol.com) > 2. Re: Poets in the Raw (jforjames at aol.com) > 3. RE: Tired Titles (Skip Fox) > 4. Re: Tired Titles (Anny Ballardini) > 5. Re: Tired Titles (jforjames at aol.com) > 6. Re: Tired Titles (Anny Ballardini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:54:00 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: <8C9CE85BC22C8F5-678-244B at webmail-me09.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ > > > Titles We Have Known > September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith > > The ten most common titles of submissions that we've received in the past > year: > > 1 Remember > 2 Smoke > 3 Revelation > 4 Work > 5 Grace > 6 Waiting > 7 Insomnia > 8 Voyeur > 9 Butterfly > 10 Reunion > > > Since you were wondering. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070926/8b9b20a9/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 15:00:06 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: <8C9CE86964BF015-678-24C7 at webmail-me09.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have a streaking suspicion this is the start ofa new poetry school: "The > Exhibitionists". > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anny Ballardini > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw > > > > Hey, duno'tch wanna _bare_ my soul > > why do they why > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: JforJames at aol.com > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:01 PM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in the Raw > > > > > > http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=32a57c63-8de7-4ac6-b5eb-f8c2c9a50ebb&k=94943 > > > > Poets will bare their souls, and everything else, tonight > Grania Litwin, Times Colonist > Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 > > > Some raw truths will be exposed at the Solstice Caf? today, when seven of > Victoria's slam poets bare their bodies and souls and perform their own > original writings. > > > > The Poetry in the Raw event is a fundraiser to help several of the poets > travel to Halifax, where they will compete against eight other teams in the > National Slam Competition. It takes place next week at the Canadian Festival > of Spoken Word. > > > > "The readers will be disrobed and unfettered tonight," promised shayne > > > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070926/ab34dcbd/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:19:44 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <001101c80072$3828aa40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Now to write a title with all of them in. (Wish I had the time.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:54 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > > > http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ > > > Titles We Have Known > September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith > > The ten most common titles of submissions that we've received in the past > year: > > 1 Remember > 2 Smoke > 3 Revelation > 4 Work > 5 Grace > 6 Waiting > 7 Insomnia > 8 Voyeur > 9 Butterfly > 10 Reunion > > > Since you were wondering. > > _____ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > < > http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A > OLAOF00020000000970> ! > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070926/811717d7/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:22:14 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <00aa01c80072$8b678c30$cdd73152 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > no Opening and Closing Numbers, I see, well that was o_rigeenal > (the more I work the worse I become, you have to excuse me, never been > this buried before...) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:54 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > > http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ > > Titles We Have Known > September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith > > The ten most common titles of submissions that we've received in the past > year: > 1 Remember > 2 Smoke > 3 Revelation > 4 Work > 5 Grace > 6 Waiting > 7 Insomnia > 8 Voyeur > 9 Butterfly > 10 Reunion > > Since you were wondering. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070926/5b2efa85/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:06:39 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Message-ID: <8C9CE8FE24A941A-894-2937 at mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > Or a poem-- > > To remember > > is revelation > > for a voyeur > > whose only work > > is insomnia, > > without reunion > > or grace, waiting > > for that butterfly > of smoke. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:19 pm > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > > > > Now to write a title with all of them in. (Wish I had the time.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:54 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > > > > http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ > > > > > Titles We Have Known > September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith > > The ten most common titles of submissions that we've received in the past > year: > > > > 1 Remember > 2 Smoke > 3 Revelation > 4 Work > 5 Grace > 6 Waiting > 7 Insomnia > 8 Voyeur > 9 Butterfly > 10 Reunion > > > > > Since you were wondering. > > > > > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ew-Poetry mailing list > ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070926/0661c115/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:11:39 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <00d101c80079$735a4e00$cdd73152 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > remember the smoke of revelation > work with grace waiting for insomnia (it'll hit _don't worry_ > voyeur of the butterfly reunion > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > > Or a poem-- > > To remember > is revelation > for a voyeur > whose only work > is insomnia, > without reunion > or grace, waiting > for that butterfly > of smoke. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip Fox > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:19 pm > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > > Now to write a title with all of them in. (Wish I had the time.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:54 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Tired Titles > > http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2007/09/17/top-ten-titles/ > > Titles We Have Known > September 17th, 2007, by Waldo Jaquith > > The ten most common titles of submissions that we've received in the past > year: > 1 Remember > 2 Smoke > 3 Revelation > 4 Work > 5 Grace > 6 Waiting > 7 Insomnia > 8 Voyeur > 9 Butterfly > 10 Reunion > > Since you were wondering. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070926/306d1166/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 39, Issue 38 > ****************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 27 14:18:22 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:18:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [list] Dorion Sagan Reading/Signing at Dactyl October 12 Message-ID: <004401c80132$ca512fd0$12ab3852@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dactyl Foundation" To: Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: [list] Dorion Sagan Reading/Signing at Dactyl October 12 Dorion Sagan, Reading / Signing (& Magic Tricks!) Notes from the Holocene: A Brief History of the Future Fri, Oct 12th, 7-9 PM complimentary beer & wine RSVP at dactyl.org Dactyl Foundation for the Arts & Humanities 64 Grand Street (between Wooster and West Broadway) in SoHo, NYC. www.dactyl.org In a thought-provoking, humorous, and engaging style, Dorion Sagan, the eldest son of Carl Sagan and evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis, combines philosophy, science, an understanding of illusion, and the fantastical writings of Philip K. Dick to probe the deep questions of existence. Operating on the precept that the universe if far weirder than we might imagine, Sagan provides fresh insights into the nature of technology, the prognosis for humanity, and the living, the living nature of our planet, and a reasoned explanation to why our universe is probably just one of an infinite number. Notes from the Holocene is a prime example of the writing coming from a new generation of scientific writers. It will inspire readers to think for themselves while leaving them chuckling with tongue-in-cheek anecdotes -- a rare combination that Sagan delivers with ease. And yes, as geneticist J.B.S. Haldane says, "the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we can imagine." Sagan is author and co-author of numerous articles and sixteen books translated into eleven languages, including Into the Cool: Energy Flow, Thermodynamics, and Life (with Eric D. Schneider) and Up from Dragons: The Evolution of Human Intelligence (with John Skoyles). His What is Life? (with Lynn Margulis) was chosen (along with works by Billie Holiday, William Shakespeare, and others) as one of fifty "mind-altering masterpieces" by Utne Reader. Sagan's essays are included in collections edited by Richard Dawkins and E. O. Wilson. Reviewing Sagan's Microcosmos in the New York Times Book Review, Melvin Konner wrote "This admiring reader of Carl Sagan, Lewis Thomas, and Stephen Jay Gould has seldom, if ever, seen such a luminous prose style in a work of this kind." Sagan has written for The New York Times, Wired, The Skeptical Inquirer, The Smithsonian, The Ecologist, Omni, Natural History, and many others. He graduated from the University of Massachusetts-Amherst with a degree in history and has interests in philosophy and literature. He lives in Amherst, Massachusetts. Published by Sciencewriters. Get your copy in advance at: www.sciencewriters.org Dactyl Foundation Office: 212 696-7800 / Gallery: 646 329-5398 (during event times only). Subway: A, C, E, at Canal Street, or 1 at Canal Street. Open to the public. Admission free. Victoria N. Alexander, Ph.D. Dactyl Foundation www.dactyl.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HoloceneSm.gif Type: image/gif Size: 13076 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Sep 27 15:05:22 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:05:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Linda Gregg line In-Reply-To: <5908b9b20709271116m3488594es48d0226f8ea13611@mail.gmail.com> References: <200709271600.l8RG06HL007195@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <5908b9b20709271116m3488594es48d0226f8ea13611@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The line is from Linda Gregg's poem "Glistening." It's online here: http://sundialgirl.blogspot.com/2004/05/may-4-2004-tuesday-dumaguete- day-two-i.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 27, 2007, at 1:16 PM, BY TJMST wrote: > sir > could you help me to search and find the NEW POETRY DIGEST WHERE > Linda Greg said > LOVE IS NOT LESS BECAUSE OF SPIRIT.....i WILL APPRECIATE IT IMMENSELY. > GBEMI TIJANI MST -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Sep 27 16:52:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:52:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Quadrati Rotanti Message-ID: <009401c80148$4de84580$12ab3852@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Quadrati Rotanti MANFREDO MASSIRONI Arte esatta e geometrie volubili 5 ottobre - 3 novembre 2007 Via Urbana, 148 00184 Roma Galleria il Bulino -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 9/27/2007 09:11:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Sep 28 08:25:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:25:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] women of the web Message-ID: <001201c801ca$abfb64e0$03d93052@ANNY> http://womenoftheweb.blogspot.com/2007/09/anny-ballardini.html here I am! thanks, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Sep 28 11:49:24 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:49:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] women of the web In-Reply-To: <001201c801ca$abfb64e0$03d93052@ANNY> Message-ID: <002401c801e7$2addef00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Nice last line. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:26 AM To: New Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] women of the web http://womenoftheweb.blogspot.com/2007/09/anny-ballardini.html here I am! thanks, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Sep 28 13:13:25 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:13:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] women of the web References: <002401c801e7$2addef00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <003a01c801f2$e213a1f0$792bb750@ANNY> oh thank you, at least the last was fine, :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] women of the web Nice last line. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:26 AM To: New Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] women of the web http://womenoftheweb.blogspot.com/2007/09/anny-ballardini.html here I am! thanks, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Sep 28 18:22:47 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:22:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 tenure track positions at U of Arizona Message-ID: ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: MFA Program Subject: [Mfa-alum] 2 tenure track positions at U of Arizona Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:31:05 -0400 Size: 6202 URL: From tony at starve.org Sat Sep 29 09:41:49 2007 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:41:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2007-2008 Readings at Columbia College Chicago Message-ID: <46FE561D.3030205@starve.org> Columbia College Chicago 2007-2008 Reading Series Sponsored by the English Department All readings free & open to the public Call 312-344-8819 for more info JEFFERY CONWAY & DAVID TRINIDAD Wednesday, October 3, 2007 Music Center Concert Hall, 1014 S. Michigan Ave., 5:30 p.m. RICK HILLES & JO McDOUGALL Wednesday, November 14, 2007 Collins Hall, 624 S. Michigan, 6th floor, 5:30 p.m. Poetics Lecture by DANIELLE PAFUNDA Wednesday, February 6, 2008 Music Center Concert Hall, 1014 S. Michigan Ave., 5:30 p.m. AIMEE NEZHUKUMATATHIL, KATE GREENSTREET, & MICHAEL ROBINS Wednesday, March 5, 2008 Music Center Concert Hall, 1014 S. Michigan Ave., 5:30 p.m. 9th ANNUAL COLUMBIA COLLEGE CITYWIDE UNDERGRADUATE POETRY FESTIVAL Thursday, April 3, 2008 Music Center Concert Hall, 1014 S. Michigan Ave., 5:30 p.m. ALICE NOTLEY & RACHEL ZUCKER Wednesday, April 9, 2008 Music Center Concert Hall, 1014 S. Michigan Ave., 5:30 p.m. COLUMBIA POETRY REVIEW READING AND RELEASE PARTY Thursday, May 1, 2008 Sherwood Conservatory Recital Hall (tentative location), 5:30 p.m. From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat Sep 29 14:23:40 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] HOW TO BE PERFECT In-Reply-To: <579952.44995.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <862508.42643.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Ron Padgett - HOW TO BE PERFECT http://coffeehousepress.org/howtobeperfect.asp Interview with Padgett for HOW TO BE PERFECT http://amyking.org/blog/?p=282 --------------------------------- Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 29 15:22:07 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:22:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost Medal fallout Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/books/27poet.html?_r=1&ref=arts&oref=slogin _ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/books/27poet.html?_r=1&ref=arts&oref=slogin) Poetry Prize Sets Off Resignations at Society By MOTOKO RICH Published: September 27, 2007 The cloistered community of American poetry has, in recent months, become a little less like Yeats?s Land of Faery, where nobody gets old and bitter of tongue, and a little more like Allen Ginsberg?s ?Howl.? The board of the 97-year-old Poetry Society of America, whose members have included many of the most august names in verse, has been rocked by a string of resignations and accusations of McCarthyism, conservatism and simple bad management. The recent turmoil was driven, partly, by fierce discussion among board members ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Sep 29 17:38:10 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:38:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] words fail me: art exhibit in detroit Message-ID: _http://www.mocadetroit.org/exhibitions/WordsFailMe.html_ (http://www.mocadetroit.org/exhibitions/WordsFailMe.html) WORDS FAIL ME Curated by Matthew Higgs September 16, 2007 to January 20, 2008 Opening Reception: September 15 at 7 PM Lisa Anne Auerbach Tauba Auerbach Anne-lise Coste Martin Creed Jeremy Deller Sam Durant Peter Fischli / David Weiss Ryan Gander Siobhan Liddell Jonathan Monk Philippe Parreno Jack Pierson Carl Pope Kay Rosen Ron Terada Rirkrit Tiravanija Jennifer West Words Fail Me is an exhibition that explores visual art's ongoing engagement - and entanglement - with language. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sat Sep 29 17:42:24 2007 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:42:24 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini Message-ID: Were it not for Anny Ballardini We would vortex forever Into Dante's _Purgatorio_. R.E.D. _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 21:24:27 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:24:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Adrienne Rich at UGA Message-ID: <731bb17a0709291824rd52062bge0465373c8333f14@mail.gmail.com> Author Adrienne Rich to read at UGA Athens, Ga. ? Renowned poet Adrienne Richwill read from her work on Thursday, Oct. 11, at 7:30 p.m. in the Griffith Auditorium at the Georgia Museum of Art. The event is sponsored by the University of Georgia's Creative Writing Program and the Willson Center for Humanities and Arts ; it is free and open to the public. Rich is one of the major American poets of the last half of the 20th century. Publishing more than 16 volumes of poetry and four books of nonfiction, she has been the recipient of nearly every major literary award, including the National Book Award, the Tanning Award for Mastery in the Art of Poetry, the Academy of American Poets Fellowship, the Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize, the Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize and the MacArthur Fellowship. She also served as chancellor of the Academy of American Poets. "There is no writer of comparable influence and achievement in so many areas of the contemporary women's movement as the poet and theorist Adrienne Rich," according to author Deborah Pope in The Oxford Companion to Women's Writing in the United States. "Over the years, hers has become one of the most eloquent, provocative voices on the politics of sexuality, race, language, power and women's culture." Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Sep 29 23:14:58 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:14:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] words fail me: art exhibit in detroit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FF14B2.2070309@nut-n-but.net> Interesting--Kay Rosen is the only one in the list I've heard of (as far as I know). --Bob G., visual poetry expert on the way out? JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.mocadetroit.org/exhibitions/WordsFailMe.html > > WORDS FAIL ME > Curated by Matthew Higgs > September 16, 2007 to January 20, 2008 > Opening Reception: September 15 at 7 PM > > Lisa Anne Auerbach > Tauba Auerbach > Anne-lise Coste > Martin Creed > Jeremy Deller > Sam Durant > Peter Fischli / David Weiss > Ryan Gander > Siobhan Liddell > Jonathan Monk > Philippe Parreno > Jack Pierson > Carl Pope > Kay Rosen > Ron Terada > Rirkrit Tiravanija > Jennifer West > > Words Fail Me is an exhibition that explores visual art's ongoing > engagement - and entanglement - with language. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's new at AOL.com > and Make AOL Your > Homepage . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 30 11:58:58 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:58:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sean Penn talks about Sharon Olds' poem in his film INTO THE WILD Message-ID: _http://movies.about.com/od/intothewild/a/intowild092007.htm_ (http://movies.about.com/od/intothewild/a/intowild092007.htm) Q: Can you discuss the significance of the Sharon Olds poem that sparked the narration? Sean Penn: ?I'd read that poem some years before. It really stuck with me and got me into reading her stuff entirely. She's a great writer. That one just struck me for some reason because I'm in a lucky boy with parents. I'm in a supportive, loving family in that way. But I'm going to [guess] 92.6 percent of my friends throughout growing [up] and today didn't have [that]. It seemed so acute to have that sense of want. When I started to write, the poem had probably been in my head for about five years. But the book had been [for] about 10 years. When I started writing it, I got to about page three and that poem just jabbed me, so it was a way into something early in the picture. I quickly wanted to make sure I could use if I was going to go on that road. So I called my partner, Art Linson, we'd bought the rights of the book together, and said, ?Can I get in touch with this poet Sharon Olds and see if we could get the rights to it?? And I called him right back and said, ?As long as she's a woman and a great writer, I might to see if I could get her consultation on the narration at the end when I'm in post-production.? I'd written the narration already but by that time but I knew I was going to want a woman's touch, and in particular, that woman's, if I could get it. So we made an overall deal with Sharon. I finished the script and then came back at the end when I'd recorded all of my original narration with Jena [Malone] prior to shooting, with timings and so on. Then I got Jena and Carine McCandless and Sharon and myself in a recording studio in San Francisco and we did our final kind of spin-around. Got it to be better and more with a woman's voice.? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 30 13:00:42 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:00:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini References: Message-ID: <007001c80383$6fb10390$84ae3452@ANNY> You mean I brought you all down to Hell, never trust your friends, that's an old saying. From: "R Dillon" Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:42 PM > > Were it not for Anny Ballardini > We would vortex forever > Into Dante's _Purgatorio_. > > R.E.D. > From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Sep 30 14:59:27 2007 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:59:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 39, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <200709301600.l8UG05HL011691@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200709301600.l8UG05HL011691@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger? http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Sep 30 15:03:04 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:03:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Ballardini References: <007001c80383$6fb10390$84ae3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <009901c80394$87affd00$84ae3452@ANNY> Unluckily the tone and smile did not come out, I was trying to be ironical, thank you Richard, Anny From: "Anny Ballardini" Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:00 PM > You mean I brought you all down to Hell, > never trust your friends, that's an old saying. > > > From: "R Dillon" > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:42 PM > > >> >> Were it not for Anny Ballardini >> We would vortex forever >> Into Dante's _Purgatorio_. >> >> R.E.D. From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 30 17:21:34 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:21:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image Message-ID: Some discussion of 'deep image' poetry going on over at Bemsha Swing blog... _http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/_ (http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Sep 30 17:48:02 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:48:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> "Deep image" is one of those terms I couldn't define with a thesaurus, a pickaxe, and a jeweler's loupe. Most such terms, however, I use blithely anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Some discussion of 'deep image' poetry going on over at Bemsha Swing > blog... > > http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's new at AOL.com > and Make AOL Your > Homepage . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Sep 30 18:05:36 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:05:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image In-Reply-To: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> References: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> Message-ID: Yes, it's a hopelessly contested & vague term. For what it's worth, my understanding of "deep image" is that it referred to images that were not realistic but imagined, dream-derived, or otherwise nonrational. So, for example, not petals drifting down the stream but stones afloat in the hawk's eye. Hence the confusion with surrealism, with which I do think it shared a good deal in terms of drawing on the unconscious . As practiced by Bly & others it seemed mainly a sort of Jungian exploration, heavy on the mythic primal imagery (fire, stones, bones, light, etc.) as opposed to umbrellas on a dissecting table. Bly's perhaps as responsible as anyone for mixing up the deep image as a concept with the practice of deliberately simplified diction and stripped-down syntax, a style that crammed many journals during the 1970s especially and has now mostly gone the way of all period styles, even though Bly & others are still going strong. There did seem a time when with a few pre-fab phrases like "bones of light" or "dark waters of the past," and perhaps an exclamation point or two, one could whip up a publishable poem. Here's a parody of Bly I published long ago in the late lamented journal *Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*, edited by Brendan Galvin & George Garrett. In case my mailer mangles this, it's a prose poem. LONGING TO BE STATE ANIMAL --after Robert Bly, and in honor of the Connecticut State Legislature, which voted homo sapiens Official State Animal for one day in 1975 Foolish desires! of small victories, that slip away like trails of small animals in snow. I see my face on postage stamps, on flags grown limp in still air. I sink my claws into stationary sent from the Chamber of Commerce. A star by my name plaque, every zoo in the state. . . . Hartford, Connecticut, April 1975--the legislature runs through strange pastures for the afternoon. Then what? In the woods near Middletown, down the scruff grass that lines I-91, on the black rocks of New Haven, I fall like a clam shell from the gull's beak, a tortoise shell, empty, drifting down into a cold dark. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Sep 30, 2007, at 4:48 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > "Deep image" is one of those terms I couldn't define with a > thesaurus, a pickaxe, and a jeweler's loupe. Most such terms, > however, I use blithely anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> Some discussion of 'deep image' poetry going on over at Bemsha >> Swing blog... >> http://jonathanmayhew.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> See what's new at AOL.com > NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170> and Make AOL Your Homepage > www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169>. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 30 19:01:32 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:01:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image Message-ID: In a message dated 9/30/2007 5:48:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: Most such terms, however, I use blithely anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. Some have used the term deep image Blythly... Finnegan ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Sep 30 20:51:44 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:51:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image In-Reply-To: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> References: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> Message-ID: <470044A0.6060809@nut-n-but.net> TheOldMole wrote: > "Deep image" is one of those terms I couldn't define with a thesaurus, > a pickaxe, and a jeweler's loupe. Most such terms, however, I use > blithely anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. I think I could define it, given a week to do so, but I doubt that too many would accept my definition. Nor do I think the term worth defining: it's too specialized--a sort of strong image with a surrealistic, implicitly metaphorical fit into the poem containing it that says something about Final Matters. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Sun Sep 30 20:24:40 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:24:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image Message-ID: Certainly 'deep image' is probably not going to mean one thing to all of us. No rubric can bind together a complex nexus of influences and practices. But I think it's a term that still has it uses, beyond that period when it was just a poetic fashion. I think some of the defining characteristics of deep image poetry are... 1) The poet values the bodily and physical experience over intellectual thought. 2) The poet finds more than superstition and mumbo-jumbo in the old rites and ways of peoples who were/are dismissed as being primitive. The ethnography of Claude Levi-Strauss would be important to the poet. The poet is not afraid of ecstatic moments, of trance states, of dream imagery. The poet takes these things to be contact points, however tenuous, to the metaphysical. 3) The poet is naturally attracted to words that are well-worn and universal. The themes of the poetry are more related to the natural world and its demands on the individual. The lowest tier of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, shall we say. Therefore the words tend to be simple and direct, like tree, wind, bone, dark, etc. The poet is not troubled by abstract concepts like 'truth' or 'beauty'. The poet experiences these things directly, and that is enough. Much of the above came out of thinking during the 60s and in reading Rousseau and Jung. But it's not the kind of authentic sentiment I would like to see driven from poetry. For perhaps poetry is the only place left for it. And I don't like the idea of casting the Sixties (the period and not Bly's journal) as naive. There is power in innocence.Finnegan Here's a Linda Gregg poem that might a comtemporary example of deep image... Let Birds Eight deer on the slope in the summer morning mist. The night sky blue. Me like a mare let out to pasture. The Tao does not console me. I was given the way in the milk of childhood. Breathing it waking and sleeping. But now there is no amazing smell of sperm on my thighs, no spreading it on my stomach to show pleasure. I will never give up longing. I will let my hair stay long. The rain proclaims these trees, the trees tell of the sun. Let birds, let birds. Let leaf be passion. Let jaw, let teeth, let tongue be between us. Let joy. Let entering. Let rage and calm join. Let quail come. Let winter impress you. Let spring. Allow the lost ocean to wake in you. Let the mare in the field in the summer morning mist make you whinny. May you come to the fence and whinny. Let birds. --Linda Gregg Chosen by the Lion, Graywolf Press, 1994 In a message dated 9/30/2007 6:05:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Yes, it's a hopelessly contested & vague term. For what it's worth, my understanding of "deep image" is that it referred to images that were not realistic but imagined, dream-derived, or otherwise nonrational. So, for example, not petals drifting down the stream but stones afloat in the hawk's eye. Hence the confusion with surrealism, with which I do think it shared a good deal in terms of drawing on the unconscious . As practiced by Bly & others it seemed mainly a sort of Jungian exploration, heavy on the mythic primal imagery (fire, stones, bones, light, etc.) as opposed to umbrellas on a dissecting table. Bly's perhaps as responsible as anyone for mixing up the deep image as a concept with the practice of deliberately simplified diction and stripped-down syntax, a style that crammed many journals during the 1970s especially and has now mostly gone the way of all period styles, even though Bly & others are still going strong. There did seem a time when with a few pre-fab phrases like "bones of light" or "dark waters of the past," and perhaps an exclamation point or two, one could whip up a publishable poem. Here's a parody of Bly I published long ago in the late lamented journal *Poultry: A Magazine of Voice*, edited by Brendan Galvin & George Garrett. In case my mailer mangles this, it's a prose poem. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Sep 30 20:37:23 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:37:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47004143.8070509@opus40.org> But did they get it Wright? JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/30/2007 5:48:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > > Most such terms, however, I use blithely > anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. > > Some have used the term deep image Blythly... > Finnegan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's new at AOL.com > and Make AOL Your > Homepage . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 20:43:39 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:43:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones -- launch day Message-ID: <59873A4E-241C-4514-8AF5-E4810B85293C@earthlink.net> Tomorrow, Oct. 1, is the official launch day for my new poetry collection Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones (Hamilton Stone Editions). Huzzah! It is available now at www.amazon.com, www.barnesandnoble.com, and/or from Hamilton Stone Editions at www.hamiltonstone.org. Here's a whiff: What Your Doctor Knows Knowledge you often hate on first hearing, coming to love as it grows into you. Perfect anecdotes, in spite of all your tense accusations, while, despite the wallflowers gang-banging the geraniums, a wild kitten careens in your heart, love by second sight. The greater the yearning, the greater the grief. Impractical accident, with a difference. Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Sep 30 20:44:43 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:44:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image In-Reply-To: <470044A0.6060809@nut-n-but.net> References: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> <470044A0.6060809@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <470042FB.3050605@opus40.org> Bob, with all due respect -- at least the same amount of respect I customarily give you -- I think there's limited value in the definition of a term the definer doesn't think worth defining. However, I tend to agree with you. Bob Grumman wrote: > > > TheOldMole wrote: >> "Deep image" is one of those terms I couldn't define with a >> thesaurus, a pickaxe, and a jeweler's loupe. Most such terms, >> however, I use blithely anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. > > I think I could define it, given a week to do so, but I doubt that too > many would accept my definition. Nor do I think the term worth > defining: it's too specialized--a sort of strong image with a > surrealistic, implicitly metaphorical fit into the poem containing it > that says something about Final Matters. > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Sun Sep 30 22:45:25 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:45:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] stepping into the deep image In-Reply-To: <470044A0.6060809@nut-n-but.net> References: <47001992.4020404@opus40.org> <470044A0.6060809@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <47005F45.4000503@myuw.net> I think you could define it to, but you're right, who cares? All Deep Image means to me are the people Hoover groups with Jerry Rothenberg/Ethnopoetics, but only kinda, in the Norton Postmodern American. I'm perfectly happy with that meaning. Bob Grumman wrote: > > > TheOldMole wrote: >> "Deep image" is one of those terms I couldn't define with a >> thesaurus, a pickaxe, and a jeweler's loupe. Most such terms, >> however, I use blithely anyway, but :"deep image" I stay away from. > > I think I could define it, given a week to do so, but I doubt that too > many would accept my definition. Nor do I think the term worth > defining: it's too specialized--a sort of strong image with a > surrealistic, implicitly metaphorical fit into the poem containing it > that says something about Final Matters. > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry