From jorgensen_a  Thu Nov  1 03:16:19 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 00:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Issue seven of Otoliths is now online
Message-ID: <647624.46897.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Issue seven of Otoliths has just gone live. It's as
eclectic as ever, but that means there's something
there for everybody.  Lined up in this issue are
Sheila E. Murphy, Nico Vassilakis, Anny Ballardini,
Vernon Frazer, Matina L. Stamatakis, Geof Huth, Matt
Hetherington, derek beaulieu, Andrew Taylor, Nigel
Long,   Marko Niemi, Michael Steven, Anne Heide, Mark
Prejsnar, M?rton Kopp?ny, Jim Leftwich, Catherine
Daly, Bill Drennan, Julian Jason Haladyn, Alexander
Jorgensen, Jeff Harrison, Paul Siegell, Robert
Gauldie, Martin Edmond, Raymond Farr, John M. Bennett,
John M. Bennett & Friends, Andrew Topel & John M.
Bennett, Andrew Topel, Mark Cunningham, Jeff Crouch,
Randall Brock, Eileen R. Tabios, Jordan Stempleman,  
Daniel f. Bradley, Lars Palm, harry k stammer, Karri
Kokko, Katrinka Moore, Tom Hibbard, dan raphael &
David-Baptiste Chirot. It's what Hieronymous Bosch
dreamt about, a Garden of Earthly Delights.

--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."



From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 09:37:35 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:37:35 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <47291847.30308@opus40.org>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>

'A lot of it is good,' would be one of those 'bad blurbs'?one could envision on her multi-volume collected poems set
(which I don't think will ever appear, unless her heirs publish it). A poet like Lifshin becomes a kind of curiousity
really. What is this need to fill every nook & cranny of small litmag world with your precious poetry? There
is something sad and needy about her career. Years ago when I edited a small journal (and I mean micro
small) we'd get 2-3 submissions from Lifshin a month. We'd get several envelopes stuffed with well-circulated ms.
pages (in the days before word processors, it wasn't easy to keep clean drafts in the mail) before we'd
even gotten around to rejecting?prior batches we had on hand.? 

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Prolific poetry


There's Lyn Lifshin. No one could be more prolific than she, and a lot of it is good.?
?



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jeff.newberry  Thu Nov  1 09:55:20 2007
From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:55:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading in Athens, GA
Message-ID: <731bb17a0711010655x2f5ab309r92ca4daa752190f2@mail.gmail.com>

VOX Reading Series at Athens Cine <http://athenscine.com/intro.php>,
11.06.07

Featuring the poetry and fiction of Sian Griffiths, Heather Matesich
Cousins, Andy Frazee, Matt Forsythe, & Jeff Newberry:

Si?n Griffiths earned her PhD in English with a creative writing emphasis at
the University of Georgia, Athens in May 2006 and now serves as Assistant
Professor of English at Piedmont College. Her creative work is forthcoming
in Ninth Letter <http://www.ninthletter.com/> and Mangrove
Review<http://mangrovereview.fgcu.edu/about.asp>and has appeared in
Quarterly
West <http://www.webdelsol.com/Quarterly_West/>, River Teeth: A Journal of
Nonfiction Narrative<http://www3.ashland.edu/academics/arts_sci/english/riverteeth/index2.htm>,
The River Oak Review <http://www.riveroakreview.org/>,
Versal<http://www.wordsinhere.com/>,
Clackamas Literary Review <http://www.clackamasliteraryreview.org/>, Court
Green <http://english.colum.edu/courtgreen/> and The Georgia
Review<http://www.uga.edu/garev/>.
She is currently revising her first novel, *Borrowed Horses*, which retells
the story of Charlotte Bront?'s Jane Eyre (with some twists) set in
contemporary Idaho.

Heather Matesich Cousins is a PhD student from Michigan. Her poetry has been
published in La Petite Zine <http://www.lapetitezine.org/>, Staccato, and
the Dunes Review <http://www.michwriters.org/publications.asp>. She is a
graduate of Bryn Mawr College and the Johns Hopkins Writing Seminars. She
has recently sent out into the world her first manuscript, *Something in the
Potato Room*. She sent it out in its best shoes and with change for the bus
and pay phone. She's not sure whether--or how--it will come back to her.

Andy Frazee is a PhD student in English and Creative Writing at the
University of Georgia and holds an MFA from the University of Illinois. His
poetry has appeared or is forthcoming in 1913: a journal of
forms<http://www.journal1913.org/>,
Faultline <http://www.humanities.uci.edu/faultline/>,
Rhino<http://www.rhinopoetry.org/>,
and The Sycamore Review <http://sycamorereview.com/>, and has also been
nominated for a Pushcart Prize.

At any given moment, Matt Forsythe would rather be deep in the Appalachians
or Rockies. Right now, he's midway though his third year in the PhD program
at UGA, and his hiking takes place while daydreaming over stacks of grading
at Borders. Prior to his arrival in Athens, Matt studied at the University
of Tennessee and Calvin College.

A student in the Creative Writing Program at UGA, Jeff Newberry is an
Assistant Professor of English at Abraham Baldwin College in Tifton,
Gerogia. His poems and essays have appeared in
storySouth<http://www.storysouth.com/>,
Copper Nickel <http://www.copper-nickel.org/>, and The Eleventh
Muse<http://www.poetrywest.org/muse.htm>.
Upcoming work will appear in The Cortland
Review<http://www.cortlandreview.com/>and Barn
Owl Review <http://www.barnowlreview.com/>. Find his blog at
http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/





Best,
Jeff Newberry

-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From anny.ballardini  Thu Nov  1 09:59:56 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:59:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>

I didn't know this phenomenon:
Lyn Lifshin has written more than 100 books

from the following page:
http://www.lynlifshin.com/

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 2:37 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


  'A lot of it is good,' would be one of those 'bad blurbs' one could envision on her multi-volume collected poems set
  (which I don't think will ever appear, unless her heirs publish it). A poet like Lifshin becomes a kind of curiousity
  really. What is this need to fill every nook & cranny of small litmag world with your precious poetry? There
  is something sad and needy about her career. Years ago when I edited a small journal (and I mean micro
  small) we'd get 2-3 submissions from Lifshin a month. We'd get several envelopes stuffed with well-circulated ms.
  pages (in the days before word processors, it wasn't easy to keep clean drafts in the mail) before we'd
  even gotten around to rejecting prior batches we had on hand.  

  Finnegan

  -----Original Message-----
  From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
  Sent: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 8:05 pm
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Prolific poetry


  There's Lyn Lifshin. No one could be more prolific than she, and a lot of it is good. 
   
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 11:55:38 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:55:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4729F6FA.5050301@nut-n-but.net>



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> 'A lot of it is good,' would be one of those 'bad blurbs' one could 
> envision on her multi-volume collected poems set
> (which I don't think will ever appear, unless her heirs publish it). A 
> poet like Lifshin becomes a kind of curiousity
> really. What is this need to fill every nook & cranny of small litmag 
> world with your precious poetry? There
> is something sad and needy about her career. Years ago when I edited a 
> small journal (and I mean micro
> small) we'd get 2-3 submissions from Lifshin a month. We'd get several 
> envelopes stuffed with well-circulated ms.
> pages (in the days before word processors, it wasn't easy to keep 
> clean drafts in the mail) before we'd
> even gotten around to rejecting prior batches we had on hand. 
>
> Finnegan
>
My good friend Richard Kostelanetz is similar.  Gotta get published!  
Anywhere!  I think Lifshin has let up quite a bit of late, though.  My 
problem is the reverse.  I find it hard to make any effort at all to get 
published.  Now.  Twenty years ago, I tried a bit, got published in the 
micro-press and then let up.

--Bob




From alexdickow9  Thu Nov  1 10:57:08 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] unprolificks and prolificks
In-Reply-To: <200710311700.l9VH06Ww019767@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For a long time, bodies of work like those of
Mallarme, Hopkins and Roethke were a bit of an
inspiration for me, since they demonstrated that it
didn't take a large oeuvre to make an impact. I think
it's interesting, though, and slightly odd, how this
discussion tends to talk around issues of style
through the prism of rates of production. Comparing
Roethke to Dylan Thomas, for instance, or Ginsberg to
whoever. I'm not sure, for my part, that
numbers-of-poems-written has any necessary connection
to density of style or craft (as someone obliquely
affirmed when they stated something like, "craft and
speed of execution aren't mutually exclusive").
Mallarme, Hopkins and others would seem to suggest a
correlation, but who would the counter-examples be?
It would seem at least that a distinction should be
made between qualities of style and writing processes,
for the sake of intellectual rigor, even if such a
distinction may seem to break down.
Not to say I'm not interested in how process relates
to product. I'm of the "poems get written in part
before they get written down" camp, especially because
I have a frustratingly chronic tendancy to have my
best lines and ideas come to me as I'm trying to fall
asleep: which requires that I noisily rummage in my
nightstand for a penlight, pen and paper before the
tasty morsel slips away forever -- to my wife's
dismay....
Back to studying my latin, foax. Don't think I added
much to the discussion, but it was fun piping up....
Amicalement,
Alex


www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From grahamd  Thu Nov  1 11:37:16 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:37:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: unprolificks and prolificks
In-Reply-To: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <483C3F21-F8FF-4503-8819-D3EBD5DE4F6E@ripon.edu>

Yes, lots of different issues are getting thrown into the mix here.   
I was mostly interested in what daily practice can do for a poet,  
what doors it may or may not open, but other matters do get swept  
together pretty quickly.

For instance, yes, it's good to remember that rate of production  
isn't the same thing as rate of publishing, though obviously someone  
like Lifshin couldn't publish so much if she didn't first write it.   
I wonder if she ever writes anything she doesn't at least seek to  
print.  Some writers present the public with the tip of the iceberg,  
but I suspect Lifshin's all iceberg.

As pathologies go, hers seems fairly benign under the aspect of  
eternity, and probably no more neurotic than that of the obsessive  
perfectionist never letting a poem go.

Another issue is how much crafting/revision takes place after  
something is drafted.  Which I do think is a separate matter from the  
prolific/restrained polarity, but it's easy to see why they get  
conflated.  There are many poets who clearly write a lot without much  
apparent revision (Bukowski, O'Hara), and even some (Ginsberg) who  
are oddly proud of that fact.

Not sure there are tons who write sparingly, then also don't revise,  
but apparently Billy Collins would be one example. He claims not to  
revise much, just getting poems down in one fell swoop.  Yet he's not  
a Lifshin in terms of rate of publication or, evidently, rate of  
production.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be shocked if Lifshin revises much.   
Someone mentioned that David Lehman's journal poems didn't look too  
worked-over, and I'd agree.  Love it or hate it, that's part of his  
intention; he's attempting an update of O'Hara's "I do this I do  
that" poems.

It may be an entirely subjective quality, but I do think there may be  
a certain fluency of style that comes as much from prolific practice  
as it does from endless revision.  It's all very good to talk about  
the art that conceals its artfulness and all that, but to my ears  
Yeats's poems sound quite different from someone like O'Hara's.   
There's a chiseled-in-rock quality to Yeats that can be very great,  
clearly, but there's an Ariel-like quality to the best O'Hara that  
can also be great.

I sometimes tell poetry workshop classes that I am highly suspicious  
of final portfolios that have not been revised, but that there are  
two broad ways to revise:  write and rewrite a single poem 10 times,  
or write 10 poems & select the best one.  Seems to me that both are  
equally valid methods of revision. And obviously many gradations &  
variations between the extremes.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote:

> For a long time, bodies of work like those of
> Mallarme, Hopkins and Roethke were a bit of an
> inspiration for me, since they demonstrated that it
> didn't take a large oeuvre to make an impact. I think
> it's interesting, though, and slightly odd, how this
> discussion tends to talk around issues of style
> through the prism of rates of production. Comparing
> Roethke to Dylan Thomas, for instance, or Ginsberg to
> whoever. I'm not sure, for my part, that
> numbers-of-poems-written has any necessary connection
> to density of style or craft (as someone obliquely
> affirmed when they stated something like, "craft and
> speed of execution aren't mutually exclusive").
> Mallarme, Hopkins and others would seem to suggest a
> correlation, but who would the counter-examples be?
> It would seem at least that a distinction should be
> made between qualities of style and writing processes,
> for the sake of intellectual rigor, even if such a
> distinction may seem to break down.
> Not to say I'm not interested in how process relates
> to product. I'm of the "poems get written in part
> before they get written down" camp, especially because
> I have a frustratingly chronic tendancy to have my
> best lines and ideas come to me as I'm trying to fall
> asleep: which requires that I noisily rummage in my
> nightstand for a penlight, pen and paper before the
> tasty morsel slips away forever -- to my wife's
> dismay....
> Back to studying my latin, foax. Don't think I added
> much to the discussion, but it was fun piping up....
> Amicalement,
> Alex
>
>
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>
>   les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>   merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 13:52:45 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:52:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: unprolificks and prolificks
In-Reply-To: <483C3F21-F8FF-4503-8819-D3EBD5DE4F6E@ripon.edu>
References: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<483C3F21-F8FF-4503-8819-D3EBD5DE4F6E@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <472A126D.1030909@nut-n-but.net>



David Graham wrote:
> Yes, lots of different issues are getting thrown into the mix here.  I 
> was mostly interested in what daily practice can do for a poet, what 
> doors it may or may not open, but other matters do get swept together 
> pretty quickly.
>
> For instance, yes, it's good to remember that rate of production isn't 
> the same thing as rate of publishing, though obviously someone like 
> Lifshin couldn't publish so much if she didn't first write it.  I 
> wonder if she ever writes anything she doesn't at least seek to 
> print.  Some writers present the public with the tip of the iceberg, 
> but I suspect Lifshin's all iceberg.
>
Sorry, David, but I HAD to correct you: she's all tip.  . . . I think.  
Now I'm confused.  No, that's right.  She's all tip.

As for daily routines, I have one for my blog entries, but I don't see 
that it's helping me any--except when I get into a subject I can extend 
for many entries.  That does help me into a groove, I think.  I tried 
doing a new poem daily for the blog and got some I thought good done 
that way, and a few poor ones, but ran out of gas after two weeks or so.

I pretty much agree with everything else you said.

--Bob G.




From amparker  Thu Nov  1 14:33:02 2007
From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:33:02 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] lurker in agreement
Message-ID: <422697E842112241BE9562D58752234E17C306D5@beagle.davidson.edu>

Hi, folks.

I've enjoyed this discussion of dailiness and dalliance. Thanks.

David's notion of "write and rewrite a single poem 10 times, or write 10 poems & select the best one" led me to think about poets who tend to revise "by addition" or "by subtraction." Are you one or the other, one early in the process and the other later? Both, of course, is the answer, but perhaps too easy....

In my writing life, a poem a day is a great gift, but usually doesn't last long. I too don't last long after an extended period of a poem-a-day: such intensity tends to make me nutso.

I think, as well, that the question of writing while we we're doing other things is some of what Keats asks in "Nightingale": which life is waking and which life is sleeping?

Cheers.
AMP




From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 18:58:18 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:58:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>

Anny,
100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to browse thru Poet's Market or 
Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone 
they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them stated: "We resisted publishing 
Lyn Lifshin."

Finnegan-

----Original Message-----

From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 9:59 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome



I didn't know this phenomenon:

Lyn Lifshin has written more than 100 books

?

from the following page:

http://www.lynlifshin.com/

?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 19:08:12 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:08:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Sunken Garden Poetry Festival Returns to
	Hill-Stead
In-Reply-To: <5eb9bc8309a31c91cb222b621cd7dd11@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5eb9bc8309a31c91cb222b621cd7dd11@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <8C9EAF335D9B434-43C-2A26@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Cynthia Cagenello <cagenelloc at hillstead.org>
To: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 3:31 pm
Subject: Sunken Garden Poetry Festival Returns to Hill-Stead


















?



?

























SUNKEN GARDEN POETRY FESTIVAL RETURNS 

Hill-Stead Museum names Jeffrey Levine the Festival's new Artistic Director 

Hill-Stead's summer-long Sunken Garden Poetry Festival, the museum's largest public program, will return in the summer of 2008 following a one-year hiatus. Jeffrey Levine, poet, publisher and teacher, has assumed the role of Artistic Director for the 16th season of the Festival, which will include some of the most talented poets and musicians in the country. Levine will be responsible for organizing the Festival and for spearheading a fundraising campaign to ensure that it thrives.

Historically, the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has charmed an audience of more than 5,000 each summer, and has engaged a listening audience of 1,250,000 via National Public Radio's Weekend Edition Saturday and five Connecticut public radio stations. New to the 2008 program will be pre-performance discussions and conversations with the artists.

Jeffrey Levine is the founder of Tupelo Press (www.tupelopress.org), an independent literary press located in Dorset, VT, and one of the most important publishers of poetry and literary fiction in the country. An award-winning poet, Levine has an MFA in poetry and teaches English at Kingswood-Oxford School in West Hartford, CT. "I look forward to helping produce a summer filled with delight and inspiration for our many current fans," commented Levine, "and to enchant those who have yet to discover this venue that Galway Kinnell has called 'a little paradise for poetry'."

Stay tuned for more information and a 2008 schedule, and plan on joining us once again in the summer of 2008 for world-renowned poetry and music in Hill-Stead's Sunken Garden!

Visit www.hillstead.org often and you won't miss a thing!












? 









This message was sent from Cynthia Cagenello to jforjames at aol.com. It was sent from: Hill-Stead Museum, 35 Mountain Road, Farmington, CT 06032. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.

















Manage your subscription



 

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From cervantes.james  Thu Nov  1 19:53:12 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:53:12 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Anny,
>  100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> browse thru Poet's Market or
>  Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting
> 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>  they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> stated: "We resisted publishing
>  Lyn Lifshin."

My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
James, when I edited Porch (print):  The monthly assault of Lyn
Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.

However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review.  We don't boast
about it but the poems are in the archives:
http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
poems, IMHO.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 20:37:48 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:37:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>

Jim,
As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of her merits as much as what are the motives...
1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified canonical.?(for the future)
2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel important. It's the way
I self-actualize.?(for the now)
3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome



On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Anny,
>  100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> browse thru Poet's Market or
>  Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting
> 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>  they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> stated: "We resisted publishing
>  Lyn Lifshin."

My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
James, when I edited Porch (print):  The monthly assault of Lyn
Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.

However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review.  We don't boast
about it but the poems are in the archives:
http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
poems, IMHO.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 20:41:24 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:41:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] TS Eliot prize short listers
Message-ID: <8C9EB003B03D9CE-43C-2F32@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>


http://books.guardian.co.uk/tseliotprize/story/0,,2203406,00.html
First collection vies with established names for TS Eliot prize


Sarah Crown
Thursday November 1, 2007
Guardian Unlimited 


The shortlist in full:
The Speed of Dark by Ian Duhig (Picador)
Hawks and Doves by Alan Gillis (Gallery Press)
Pessimism for Beginners by Sophie Hannah (Carcanet)
The Meanest Flower by Mimi Khalvati (Carcanet)
Public Dreams by Frances Leviston (Picador)
The Pomegranates of Kandahar by Sarah Maguire (Chatto & Windus)
A Book of Lives by Edwin Morgan (Carcanet) 
The Drowned Book by Sean O'Brien (Picador)
Common Prayer by Fiona Sampson (Carcanet)
Black Moon by Matthew Sweeney (Jonathan Cape)

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 22:19:56 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:19:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <472A894C.3030708@nut-n-but.net>

For tomorrow's blog entry, I tried turning prose to free verse as I 
spoke of earlier in this thread.  The result wasn't terribly good, and I 
really didn't turn the prose to verse, but it wasn't worthless.  I think 
I can later make a decent poem of it.  Once I've figured it out.

*Poem, Caught In Prose*

Poem didn't mind prose, but he was in
the mood for poetry, and
extremely not
in the mood for the humdrum prose he
had found himself
in:

"Some of Lyn Lifshin's work I
think good, but it makes me
wonder: I do a blog entry a day,
and have done something like
1300 entries.  If I cut all the
prose entries up into free verse,
and diddled the wording a little
here and there, I'd be prolific,
too, and I think most of the
results would have something of
interest in them, albeit not much
poetry, by my standards.  That's
sort of how I feel about her work."

So Poem thrashed encumbrance
fully-charged into his
situation, clamorously
and mutedly both, engendering:

"In the slumb and thrust
of Lyn Lifshin's hurtle past
the tollhoused lives
of the good, 1300 entries later
than lace and laceration, a dry brown
flag was all that broke the
grey intelligence of the sky.

"The flag, wonder-weary, cut
through to faint freedoms
scarlet-voiced against
the imminence of a February
of philosophical interest
but little poetry."

And the prose was no more--
not diddled slightly
askew, but no more. 
Poem was content.

--Bob G.

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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 22:22:31 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:22:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <472A89E7.5020906@nut-n-but.net>



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Jim,
> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
> her merits as much as what are the motives...
> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be 
> certified canonical. (for the future)
> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me 
> feel important. It's the way
> I self-actualize. (for the now)
> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
> Finnegan
>
How about 4. I love to write poetry, and what else should I do with it 
when I'm finished with it but send it out to others?

--Bob G.




From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 21:44:36 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:44:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <472A89E7.5020906@nut-n-but.net>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<472A89E7.5020906@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8C9EB090EF4CDA6-43C-31F7@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>



>?
How about 4. I love to write poetry, and what else should I do with it when I'm finished with it but send it out to others??

--
No harm in that. I'm being too hard on her, I'm sure. There are far worse foibles than excessive poetry publishing.
The interesting thing is that one person can't keep up anymore. With both online and in print journals, even if you 
tried to overwhelm the system with submissions, you'd wouldn't make a dent.?You'd have to have a studio full of 
apprentices pounding away on keyboards in two shifts per day to even get noticed anymore or to make onesefl a 
nuisance.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


?
jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
> Jim,?
> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of > her merits as much as what are the motives...?
> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be > certified canonical. (for the future)?
> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me > feel important. It's the way?
> I self-actualize. (for the now)?
> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)?
> Finnegan?
>?
How about 4. I love to write poetry, and what else should I do with it when I'm finished with it but send it out to others??
?
--Bob G.?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov  2 04:17:02 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:17:02 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com><002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003501c81d28$bf972470$35ab3852@ANNY>

Jeez, just the time to look up 10thousand magazines, forget about writing and posting... 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:58 PM


  Anny,
  100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to browse thru Poet's Market or 
  Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone 
  they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them stated: "We resisted publishing 
  Lyn Lifshin."

  Finnegan-

  ----Original Message-----

  From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 9:59 am
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


  I didn't know this phenomenon:
  Lyn Lifshin has written more than 100 books

  from the following page:
  http://www.lynlifshin.com/
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From atelierjewelweed  Fri Nov  2 07:36:53 2007
From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:36:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>

I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
something that is obvious:

WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
head and never revises?

Inquiring minds want to know.

For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
instant blonde.

My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.

Suzanne

On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Jim,
>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of her
> merits as much as what are the motives...
>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
> canonical. (for the future)
>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
> important. It's the way
>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>  Finnegan
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> > Anny,
> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> > browse thru Poet's Market or
> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
> boasting
> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> > stated: "We resisted publishing
> > Lyn Lifshin."
>
> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>
> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
> about it but the poems are in the archives:
> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
> poems, IMHO.
>
> -- Jim
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> ~
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



From gejs1  Fri Nov  2 09:46:36 2007
From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:46:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201c81d56$ca12c5c0$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b>

Perhaps her system is the way she works
in themes--sometimes for a decade or so.
When I met her in the '80's, there were the
Madonna poems...

Gerald S.

> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
>> important. It's the way
>>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>  Finnegan
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin."
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>>
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 




From cervantes.james  Fri Nov  2 10:30:29 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:30:29 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Prolific poetry
In-Reply-To: <D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <648208b60711020730m675ae6e6of63235ae347daa24@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>
>
> But as Jarrell suggested in his comment on Stevens, writing a lot,
> regularly, does seem to lubricate the gears.

The musical analogy might shed a little light.  When a musician
practices for hours every day, he or she is not just practicing the
pieces that will be performed publically but different exercises,
etudes, challenging passages etc.  So, in essence, none of musician's
daily music making is for "publication," but for the sake of
maintaining one's "chops" so that when performance time comes and
nothing can be taken back,  the musician can deliver the best possible
performance (doesn't always work, as we know).

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov  2 13:53:23 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 18:53:23 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com><D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu><8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org><8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com><002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY><8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com><8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>

This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote. 
She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they 
were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
away, just like a painter.

From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
>> important. It's the way
>>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>  Finnegan
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin."
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>>
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 





From atelierjewelweed  Fri Nov  2 15:06:47 2007
From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:06:47 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>

LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems but the
poems of others.  Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, and I have
cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror so that I can
read them while brushing my teeth.  Also have them tacked up over the light
switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop to read for a bit.

Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time with
drafts of my poems.  There are too many people stampeding through my house
nowadays for that to work out well.

Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands



On 11/2/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
> This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote.
> She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if
> they
> were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took
> away, just like a painter.
>
> From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
> poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>
>
> > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> > something that is obvious:
> >
> > WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> > head and never revises?
> >
> > Inquiring minds want to know.
> >
> > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> > find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> > instant blonde.
> >
> > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> > results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> > of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> >> Jim,
> >>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of
> >> her
> >> merits as much as what are the motives...
> >>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be
> certified
> >> canonical. (for the future)
> >>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me
> feel
> >> important. It's the way
> >>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
> >>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
> >>  Finnegan
> >>
> >>  -----Original Message-----
> >>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
> >>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
> >>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
> >>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> >> > Anny,
> >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> >> > browse thru Poet's Market or
> >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
> >> boasting
> >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
> >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> >> > stated: "We resisted publishing
> >> > Lyn Lifshin."
> >>
> >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
> >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
> >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
> >>
> >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
> >> about it but the poems are in the archives:
> >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
> >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
> >> poems, IMHO.
> >>
> >> -- Jim
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> >> ~
> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>  ________________________________
> >>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From millb  Fri Nov  2 15:26:50 2007
From: millb (millb at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:26:50 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
	<bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>

When I taught, I used to post a "Poem of the Week" on my office door, for students to ponder while they were waiting to see me.? They came to expect it and, when I forgot to put up a new one, they would complain.




-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Burns <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
Bcc: millb at aol.com
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems but the poems of others.? Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, and I have cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror so that I can read them while brushing my teeth.? Also have them tacked up over the light switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop to read for a bit. 

Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time with drafts of my poems.? There are too many people stampeding through my house nowadays for that to work out well.

Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands 




On 11/2/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote.
She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they
were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
away, just like a painter.

From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >


> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF???Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her 
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.??I know I can do it-??I 
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying 
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.??With good
> results.??But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.??*Sigh* I need a secretary.
> 
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>??As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>??1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>??2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel 
>> important. It's the way
>>??I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>??3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>??Finnegan
>>
>>??-----Original Message----- 
>>??From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>>??Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>??Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm 
>>??Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com > wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags 
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin." 
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>> 
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html 
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html 
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>??________________________________
>>??Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list 
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From amyhappens  Fri Nov  2 15:49:33 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Weekend Warriors!  New Work Up ...
In-Reply-To: <8C9EB090EF4CDA6-43C-31F7@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <441019.49815.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

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  ~~
   
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  ~~
   
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From jjeffreymail  Fri Nov  2 17:25:17 2007
From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <255068.86104.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It's my first post to this list and, unbelievably, I find myself having to defend Lyn Lifshin, a poet I neither know, admire, nor--to be honest--give a shiatsu about.  Still, I don't see why anyone cares how much she writes or submits.  And while the wonder whether she writes down every thought or never edits may or may not be true, that doesn't explain the fact that she's been published so much.  We'd have to rattle a thousand editors' doors about that.  She only submits; they choose to publish.

(Of course, the answer why they publish her is simple if you've ever sat and read a pile of submissions.  Most of it is amateurish, muddled, and unpublishable.  I've read some of Lifshin's stuff, and it's not horrible.  So she gets published because her stuff still in the sifter after some vigorous shaking.)

But please, how could prolific writing be a negative?  For her or anyone?  You write and write and write and then...  What?  Have you emptied the juice box?  Is that all you've got?  No mas?  Mo mas? 

Or is the issue that you wrote all that--took all that time--and it might be awful.  Well, let's tear off the wrapper and look: Yep; it's awful.  Except for that line there...  And maybe that little thought, yes...  And--Oooo--isn't that a nice phrase?...  Next time, let's leap from that verb--and write and write again.

It's not a simple numbers game, no.  But it is a matter of exercise and practice and rummaging new closets.  What effort doesn't improve with repetition?  The music analogy was apt, as would a sports analogy, or painting, or programming, or cooking, or throwing tomatoes at an opera singer.

Okay. I've got to get back to work; all this writing has made me eager to do nothing.

Now, where can I submit this?

John J

P.S., If Lifshin's promiscuous publishing makes people scratch,  any thoughts on Bukowski, who's published about a half dozen books of "new" poetry since his death?  (I almost put those quotation marks around the word poetry in the sentence above:  Does that give away my opinion of Bukowski?)



Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote: This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote. 
She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they 
were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
away, just like a painter.

From: "Suzanne Burns" 
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com  wrote:
>> Jim,
>>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
>> important. It's the way
>>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>  Finnegan
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: James Cervantes 
>>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com  wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin."
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>>
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


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From Opus40-01  Fri Nov  2 17:34:29 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:34:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>	<bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <472B97E5.6090208@opus40.org>

What a neat idea.

millb at aol.com wrote:
> When I taught, I used to post a "Poem of the Week" on my office door, 
> for students to ponder while they were waiting to see me.  They came 
> to expect it and, when I forgot to put up a new one, they would complain.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suzanne Burns <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
> Bcc: millb at aol.com
> Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>
> LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems 
> but the poems of others.  Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, 
> and I have cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror 
> so that I can read them while brushing my teeth.  Also have them 
> tacked up over the light switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop 
> to read for a bit.
>
> Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time 
> with drafts of my poems.  There are too many people stampeding through 
> my house nowadays for that to work out well.
>
> Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands
>
>
>
> On 11/2/07, *Anny Ballardini* <anny.ballardini at tin.it 
> <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>> wrote:
>
>     This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik
>     wrote.
>     She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls
>     as if they
>     were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added
>     or took
>     away, just like a painter.
>
>     From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com
>     <mailto:atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>>
>     poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >
>
>
>     > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
>     > something that is obvious:
>     >
>     > WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
>     > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops
>     into her
>     > head and never revises?
>     >
>     > Inquiring minds want to know.
>     >
>     > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big
>     deal-- I
>     > find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do
>     it-  I
>     > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
>     > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
>     > instant blonde.
>     >
>     > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were
>     studying
>     > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all
>     times.  With good
>     > results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
>     > of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>     >
>     > Suzanne
>     >
>     > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>> wrote:
>     >> Jim,
>     >>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a
>     question of
>     >> her
>     >> merits as much as what are the motives...
>     >>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be
>     certified
>     >> canonical. (for the future)
>     >>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me,
>     makes me feel
>     >> important. It's the way
>     >>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>     >>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>     >>  Finnegan
>     >>
>     >>  -----Original Message-----
>     >>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com
>     <mailto:cervantes.james at gmail.com>>
>     >>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     >>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>     >>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com> > wrote:
>     >> > Anny,
>     >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda
>     laughable to
>     >> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>     >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many
>     litmags
>     >> boasting
>     >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>     >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one
>     of them
>     >> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>     >> > Lyn Lifshin."
>     >>
>     >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>     >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>     >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>     >>
>     >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>     >> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>     >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>     <http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html>
>     >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of
>     solid
>     >> poems, IMHO.
>     >>
>     >> -- Jim
>     >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>     <http://www.poetserv.org/>
>     >> ~
>     >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>     >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>     >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>     <http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html>
>     >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejvcervantes/>
>     >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>     <http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> New-Poetry mailing list
>     >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>  ________________________________
>     >>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free
>     AOL Mail!
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> New-Poetry mailing list
>     >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >>
>     >>
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > New-Poetry mailing list
>     > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From millb  Fri Nov  2 18:04:02 2007
From: millb (millb at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:04:02 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <472B97E5.6090208@opus40.org>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>	<bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>
	<472B97E5.6090208@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9EBB369631C91-760-45F0@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com>

Thanks!

Of course, I had a few "loose" parameters. I tried not to go crazy though.

1) no more than?one page
2) from recent literary journals, not anthologies (when I could)
3) by people who are alive
4) when I could, I selected "topical" poems (about current events or, for example, WS Merwin's "Berryman" the first week back to school.? 
5) I listed where the poems came from (Poetry, Kenyon Review, etc.)
6) if I had room on the page, I added biographical info or an author photo

It was my little way of exposing students to poetry--

Some weeks, it was also a way of subversively making a statement (like posting a poem dealing with honesty when a certain politician lied)

Another trick I did in poetry and lit classes was I brought IN the BOOKS themselves when we discussed an anthor from an anthology.? I would use the book to read aloud, instead of the anthology (drove students to ask questions and to want to SEE the cover and the rest of the work)


-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: millb at aol.com
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


What a neat idea.?
?
millb at aol.com wrote:?
> When I taught, I used to post a "Poem of the Week" on my office door, > for students to ponder while they were waiting to see me. They came > to expect it and, when I forgot to put up a new one, they would complain.?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Suzanne Burns <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>?
> Bcc: millb at aol.com?
> Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:06 pm?
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome?
>?
> LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems > but the poems of others. Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, > and I have cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror > so that I can read them while brushing my teeth. Also have them > tacked up over the light switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop > to read for a bit.?
>?
> Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time > with drafts of my poems. There are too many people stampeding through > my house nowadays for that to work out well.?
>?
> Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands?
>?
>?
>?
> On 11/2/07, *Anny Ballardini* <anny.ballardini at tin.it > <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>> wrote:?
>?
> This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik?
> wrote.?
> She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls?
> as if they?
> were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added?
> or took?
> away, just like a painter.?
>?
> From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com?
> <mailto:atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>>?
> poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >?
>?
>?
> > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking?
> > something that is obvious:?
> >?
> > WTF? Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of?
> > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops?
> into her?
> > head and never revises??
> >?
> > Inquiring minds want to know.?
> >?
> > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big?
> deal-- I?
> > find it hard to stay organized and motivated. I know I can do?
> it- I?
> > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but?
> > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....?
> > instant blonde.?
> >?
> > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were?
> studying?
> > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all?
> times. With good?
> > results. But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems?
> > of course. *Sigh* I need a secretary.?
> >?
> > Suzanne?
> >?
> > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>?
> <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>> wrote:?
> >> Jim,?
> >> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a?
> question of?
> >> her?
> >> merits as much as what are the motives...?
> >> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be?
> certified?
> >> canonical. (for the future)?
> >> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me,?
> makes me feel?
> >> important. It's the way?
> >> I self-actualize. (for the now)?
> >> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)?
> >> Finnegan?
> >>?
> >> -----Original Message-----?
> >> From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com?
> <mailto:cervantes.james at gmail.com>>?
> >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>?
> >> Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm?
> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome?
> >>?
> >>?
> >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>?
> <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com> > wrote:?
> >> > Anny,?
> >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda?
> laughable to?
> >> > browse thru Poet's Market or?
> >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many?
> litmags?
> >> boasting?
> >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone?
> >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one?
> of them?
> >> > stated: "We resisted publishing?
> >> > Lyn Lifshin."?
> >>?
> >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,?
> >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn?
> >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.?
> >>?
> >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast?
> >> about it but the poems are in the archives:?
> >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html?
> <http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html>?
> >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of?
> solid?
> >> poems, IMHO.?
> >>?
> >> -- Jim?
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?
> >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org?
> <http://www.poetserv.org/>?
> >> ~?
> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning?
> >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf?
> >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html?
> <http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html>?
> >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/?
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejvcervantes/>?
> >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/?
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> New-Poetry mailing list?
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> >>?
> >>?
> >> ________________________________?
> >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free?
> AOL Mail!?
> >>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> New-Poetry mailing list?
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> >>?
> >>?
> > _______________________________________________?
> > New-Poetry mailing list?
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> >?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
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> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
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?
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From elemenope_productions  Fri Nov  2 19:01:45 2007
From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:01:45 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin
In-Reply-To: <200711021700.lA2H06Ww031619@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711021700.lA2H06Ww031619@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU103-W87F3CD1DEED44F4511587908D0@phx.gbl>


Lin Lifshin and Charles Bukowskishare a kind of marathon simularity.
 
At least she never committed or plots treason
against the United States of America
 
Which for certain leading female leaders
in arts or politics is a sine qua non.
 
She doesn't write for you,
she looks in the mirror
 
And writes to the person
she sees in there. 
 
----------
R.E. Dillon
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033
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From robin.hamilton2  Fri Nov  2 23:26:45 2007
From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 03:26:45 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin
References: <200711021700.lA2H06Ww031619@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<BLU103-W87F3CD1DEED44F4511587908D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <007701c81dc9$5e0a6270$0202a8c0@CoreDuo>

Richard:

<<
She doesn't write for you,
she looks in the mirror

And writes to the person
she sees in there.
>>

Why not cut it back to just these last four lines (perhaps with a title)? --  
That's a poem in itself.

(And perhaps drop the "in" in the final line -- "she sees there.")

Robin 




From suelin6787  Sat Nov  3 05:38:57 2007
From: suelin6787 (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 04:38:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <255068.86104.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c81dfd$5c2fb160$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Welcome John J...I agree with your opinion of Bukowski.  With Lifshin, anyone who attracts attention for any reason will have detractors.  I thought I once read that her frenzy to publish began after she was rejected by a PhD program.

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Jeffrey 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


  It's my first post to this list and, unbelievably, I find myself having to defend Lyn Lifshin, a poet I neither know, admire, nor--to be honest--give a shiatsu about.  Still, I don't see why anyone cares how much she writes or submits.  And while the wonder whether she writes down every thought or never edits may or may not be true, that doesn't explain the fact that she's been published so much.  We'd have to rattle a thousand editors' doors about that.  She only submits; they choose to publish.

  (Of course, the answer why they publish her is simple if you've ever sat and read a pile of submissions.  Most of it is amateurish, muddled, and unpublishable.  I've read some of Lifshin's stuff, and it's not horrible.  So she gets published because her stuff still in the sifter after some vigorous shaking.)

  But please, how could prolific writing be a negative?  For her or anyone?  You write and write and write and then...  What?  Have you emptied the juice box?  Is that all you've got?  No mas?  Mo mas? 

  Or is the issue that you wrote all that--took all that time--and it might be awful.  Well, let's tear off the wrapper and look: Yep; it's awful.  Except for that line there...  And maybe that little thought, yes...  And--Oooo--isn't that a nice phrase?...  Next time, let's leap from that verb--and write and write again.

  It's not a simple numbers game, no.  But it is a matter of exercise and practice and rummaging new closets.  What effort doesn't improve with repetition?  The music analogy was apt, as would a sports analogy, or painting, or programming, or cooking, or throwing tomatoes at an opera singer.

  Okay. I've got to get back to work; all this writing has made me eager to do nothing.

  Now, where can I submit this?

  John J

  P.S., If Lifshin's promiscuous publishing makes people scratch, any thoughts on Bukowski, who's published about a half dozen books of "new" poetry since his death?  (I almost put those quotation marks around the word poetry in the sentence above:  Does that give away my opinion of Bukowski?)



  Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
    This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote. 
    She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they 
    were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
    away, just like a painter.

    From: "Suzanne Burns" 
    poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


    > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
    > something that is obvious:
    >
    > WTF? Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
    > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
    > head and never revises?
    >
    > Inquiring minds want to know.
    >
    > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
    > find it hard to stay organized and motivated. I know I can do it- I
    > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
    > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
    > instant blonde.
    >
    > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
    > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times. With good
    > results. But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
    > of course. *Sigh* I need a secretary.
    >
    > Suzanne
    >
    > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote:
    >> Jim,
    >> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
    >> her
    >> merits as much as what are the motives...
    >> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
    >> canonical. (for the future)
    >> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
    >> important. It's the way
    >> I self-actualize. (for the now)
    >> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
    >> Finnegan
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: James Cervantes 
    >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
    >> Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
    >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
    >>
    >>
    >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote:
    >> > Anny,
    >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
    >> > browse thru Poet's Market or
    >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
    >> boasting
    >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
    >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
    >> > stated: "We resisted publishing
    >> > Lyn Lifshin."
    >>
    >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
    >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
    >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
    >>
    >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
    >> about it but the poems are in the archives:
    >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
    >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
    >> poems, IMHO.
    >>
    >> -- Jim
    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
    >> ~
    >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
    >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
    >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
    >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
    >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> New-Poetry mailing list
    >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    >>
    >>
    >> ________________________________
    >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> New-Poetry mailing list
    >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    >>
    >>
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 


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From grahamd  Sat Nov  3 12:54:28 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 11:54:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
Message-ID: <32E51DE3-D90B-4672-9CC6-E7165148E749@ripon.edu>

With the news of Jon Anderson's death I went to the library and  
checked out his 1983 new-and-selected poems, *The Milky Way*, which I  
remembered reading long ago, but not much else about it.   Nor could  
I recall any single poem by Anderson.

Here's some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene  
generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in 1988.   
Sic transit.


The Secret Of Poetry

When I was lonely, I thought of death.
When I thought of death I was lonely.

I suppose this error will continue.
I shall enter each gray morning

Delighted by frost, which is death,
& the trees that stand alone in mist.

When I met my wife I was lonely.
Our child in her body is lonely.

I suppose this error will go on & on.
Morning I kiss my wife's cold lips,

Nights her body, dripping with mist.
This is the error that fascinates.

I suppose you are secretly lonely,
Thinking of death, thinking of love.

I'd like, please, to leave on your sill
Just one cold flower, whose beauty

Would leave you inconsolable all day.
The secret of poetry is cruelty.

--Jon Anderson.  The Milky Way:  Poems 1967-1982.   Ecco, 1983.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From AlMaginnes  Sat Nov  3 15:51:26 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 15:51:26 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
Message-ID: <cec.1ebada42.345e2b3e@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/3/2007 12:54:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:

Here's  some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene  
generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in 1988.   Sic transit. 


Anderson really does seem like a poet whose moment came and went very  
quickly. of course I kept getting him confused with the singer for yes when I  was 
starting to read poetry. I found THE MILKY WAY in a used book store a year  or 
so ago and brought it home. Well worth whatever it cost. Maybe some press  
will be moved to put out a collected or an updated  selected.



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From JforJames  Sat Nov  3 17:23:50 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 17:23:50 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
Message-ID: <d4c.10c24190.345e40e6@aol.com>

 
Welcome, John J. 
 
I think Bukowski doesn't hold a candle to Lifshin's appearances in the  
little magazines. By number of books, they're  probably comparable. Also I'm sure 
in Bukowski's later years, he  didn't bother to submit work. It was probably 
enough trouble for him to keep up  with the multitude of litmags soliciting his 
poems/stories.
 
But the most important distinction is that Bukowski sells. Whatever  the 
reason, Bukowski has sold many books for many years,  when living and now 
posthumously. When Black Sparrow shut down,  Bukowski was the jewel in their crown. 
Some say it kept them afloat for years  beyond what the others on their list 
could have supported. Bukowski, to  his credit, must of have been the loyal sort. 
His fame was  international and he could've sold out to a New York publisher 
at any time, I'm  sure.  I think it was Ecco (by then a imprint of Harper 
Collins) that  paid, dearly I'm sure, for the rights to publish his works. I'm  
sure, in good capitalist fashion, they'll milk that investment until the  
copyrights run out.
Finnegan
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/2/2007 5:25:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes:

It's my  first post to this list and, unbelievably, I find myself having to 
defend Lyn  Lifshin, a poet I neither know, admire, nor--to be honest--give a 
shiatsu  about.  Still, I don't see why anyone cares how much she writes or  
submits.  And while the wonder whether she writes down every thought or  never 
edits may or may not be true, that doesn't explain the fact that she's  been 
published so much.  We'd  have to rattle a thousand editors' doors about that.  
She only submits;  they choose to publish.

(Of course, the answer why they publish her is  simple if you've ever sat and 
read a pile of submissions.  Most of it is  amateurish, muddled, and 
unpublishable.  I've read some of Lifshin's  stuff, and it's not horrible.  So she 
gets published because her stuff  still in the sifter after some vigorous 
shaking.)

But please, how could  prolific writing be a negative?  For her or anyone?  
You write and  write and write and then...  What?  Have you emptied the juice  
box?  Is that all you've got?  No mas?  Mo mas? 

Or is  the issue that you wrote all that--took all that time--and it might be 
 awful.  Well, let's tear off the wrapper and look: Yep; it's awful.   Except 
for that line there...  And maybe that little thought,  yes...  
And--Oooo--isn't that a nice phrase?...  Next time, let's  leap from that verb--and write 
and write again.

It's not a simple  numbers game, no.  But it is a matter of exercise and 
practice and  rummaging new closets.  What effort doesn't improve with  
repetition?  The music analogy was apt, as would a sports analogy, or  painting, or 
programming, or cooking, or throwing tomatoes at an opera  singer.

Okay. I've got to get back to work; all this writing has made  me eager to do 
nothing.

Now, where can I submit this?

John  J

P.S., If Lifshin's promiscuous publishing makes people scratch, any  thoughts 
on Bukowski, who's published about a half dozen books of "new" poetry  since 
his death?  (I almost put those quotation marks around the word  poetry in the 
sentence above:   Does that give away my opinion of Bukowski?)








************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov  3 17:25:18 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:25:18 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
References: <32E51DE3-D90B-4672-9CC6-E7165148E749@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <007001c81e60$08ec59a0$85df3652@ANNY>

The poem is beautiful and your introduction gave me the shivers. 
On a different note:
Life goes on inclemently and we spend it reading.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:54 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry


  With the news of Jon Anderson's death I went to the library and checked out his 1983 new-and-selected poems, *The Milky Way*, which I remembered reading long ago, but not much else about it.   Nor could I recall any single poem by Anderson.


  Here's some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in 1988.  Sic transit. 



  The Secret Of Poetry
               
  When I was lonely, I thought of death.
  When I thought of death I was lonely.

  I suppose this error will continue.
  I shall enter each gray morning

  Delighted by frost, which is death,
  & the trees that stand alone in mist.

  When I met my wife I was lonely.
  Our child in her body is lonely.

  I suppose this error will go on & on.
  Morning I kiss my wife's cold lips,

  Nights her body, dripping with mist.
  This is the error that fascinates.

  I suppose you are secretly lonely,
  Thinking of death, thinking of love.

  I'd like, please, to leave on your sill
  Just one cold flower, whose beauty

  Would leave you inconsolable all day.
  The secret of poetry is cruelty. 

  --Jon Anderson.  The Milky Way:  Poems 1967-1982.   Ecco, 1983.







  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu


  Home Page:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html


  Poetry Library:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
  ==========================================

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From JforJames  Sat Nov  3 17:32:07 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 17:32:07 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
Message-ID: <bd6.1d73b3c8.345e42d7@aol.com>

 
My poetry reading net is less finely woven than I'd hoped, because I have  to 
admit
I don't have any recollection of reading his work.

Closer to home, In Connecticut, Curbstone Press, publishes another Jon  
Anderson...
_http://www.curbstone.org/authdetail.cfm?AuthID=151_ 
(http://www.curbstone.org/authdetail.cfm?AuthID=151) 
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 11/3/2007 3:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
AlMaginnes at aol.com writes:

 
Here's  some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene  
generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in  1988.  Sic transit. 


Anderson really does seem like a poet whose moment came and went very  
quickly. of course I kept getting him confused with the singer for yes when I  was 
starting to read poetry. I found THE MILKY WAY in a used book store a year  or 
so ago and brought it home. Well worth whatever it cost. Maybe some press  
will be moved to put out a collected or an updated  selected.



 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From david.bircumshaw  Sun Nov  4 01:16:26 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 06:16:26 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
References: <bd6.1d73b3c8.345e42d7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c81eaa$3cb270e0$23c60556@windows>

>Closer to home, In Connecticut, Curbstone Press, publishes another Jon Anderson...
http://www.curbstone.org/authdetail.cfm?AuthID=151
Finnegan<

While further from home, in Australia, there was a John Anderson (1948-1997), a few of whose poems I put in A Chide's Alphabet (#2) at:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ChideTwo/FifthChiding.htm


Best

Dave
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From JforJames  Sun Nov  4 17:56:53 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:56:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New Online Lit Review 
Message-ID: <c20.23d4fdcb.345fa835@aol.com>





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Subject: New Online Lit Review 
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:58:48 +0000
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From jorgensen_a  Sun Nov  4 19:36:07 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 16:36:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SHAMPOO 31
Message-ID: <295025.78649.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


--- Del Ray Cross <delray at shampoopoetry.com> wrote:

> From: Del Ray Cross <delray at shampoopoetry.com>
> To: <delray at shampoopoetry.com>
> Subject: SHAMPOO 31
> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:19:55 -0800 (PST)
> 
> Dear Hair-Adorning Citizens,
> 
> Shampoo issue 31 finally has that lustrous finish.  
> 
> Check it out here:  www.ShampooPoetry.com
> 
> It???s a special postcard poems issue with Tim Yu, 
> Stephanie Young, Debbie Yee, Doreen Wang, Paul 
> Siegell, Soham Patel, Ronald Palmer, John Oakey, 
> Andy Nicholson, Laura Navratil, Mika Nagasaki, Sara 
> Mumolo, Sonia Mukherji, H.E. Mantel, Nicholas 
> Manning, Christina Lopez, Cassie Lewis, Joseph O. 
> Legaspi, Rong Lee, Rathanak Michael Keo, Scott 
> Keeney, Janine Joseph, Alexander Jorgensen, Megan 
> Hartline, Kate Hall, Kevin Griffith, Rachel Gray,
> Marco 
> Giovenale, Sarah Gambito, Emily Kendal Frey, Oliver 
> de la Paz, Peter Davis, Jennifer Dannenberg, Del Ray
> 
> Cross, Jennifer Chang, Laura Carter, Avery Burns, 
> Julian T. Brolaski, Tamiko Beyer, Luis Cuauhtemoc 
> Berriozabal, Christopher Barnes, Hossannah 
> Asuncion, Shane Allison, Helene Achanzar, and Scott 
> Abels, along with a Shampoo Postcard by Otto Chan.
> 
> Wish You Were Here,
> 
> Del Ray Cross, Editor
> SHAMPOO
> clean hair / good poetry
> www.ShampooPoetry.com
> 
> 
> (if you'd prefer not to receive these messages, just
> let me know)
> 
> 


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."



From jforjames  Sun Nov  4 19:39:50 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:39:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] eco warrior poet
Message-ID: <8C9ED5B8214FB9B-68C-558A@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>


http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetry/features/0,,2204850,00.html

Portrait of a poet as eco warrior


The newly published letters of Ted Hughes make no mention of his political life. But nature for the former poet laureate was more than a source of poetry. Seeing his beloved rivers and moors dying pushed him into a second career - as a fearless environmental activist 

Ed Douglas
Sunday November 4, 2007
The Observer 


The publication last week of the letters of Ted Hughes has left critics crackling with excitement. Revealing, intimate, often generous, sometimes bleak, they catch the mind of a poet in the process of creation, bewildered and lost in the wreckage of his ill-starred relationships with Sylvia Plath and Assia Wevill - or offering young students advice on poetry or life. But one aspect of Hughes's life, which inspired his poetry and engaged his hunger for learning, is missing - his deep love of nature and concern for the environment.

________________________________________________________________________
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From JforJames  Sun Nov  4 21:09:06 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 21:09:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jane Cooper RIP
Message-ID: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>

Jane M. Cooper, Faculty Emerita, Helped Create SLC?s Writing  Program
Wednesday, October 31, 2007 
 
Jane Marvel Cooper, poet, Professor and Poet-in-Residence Emerita at Sarah  
Lawrence College, died peacefully at Pennswood Village, Newtown, P.A., on  
October 26th from complications due to Parkinson's Disease. 
 
Jane Cooper joined the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College in 1950, where she  
remained as a teacher and poet in residence until her retirement in 1987.  
Together with Grace Paley, Jean Valentine, Muriel Rukeyser and others, Cooper  
helped develop and enhance the College?s writing program that became one of the  
most distinguished in the country.  On her retirement after 37 years on the  
writing/literature faculty an endowed scholarship in her name was created to  
support a writing student




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From grahamd  Mon Nov  5 09:46:18 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 08:46:18 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jane Cooper RIP
In-Reply-To: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
References: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1FE752DD-B03A-4E7D-BC48-24FEE2932B27@ripon.edu>

These things are always very relative as well as subjective, but Jane  
Cooper's long been on my short list of under-appreciated poets.

Here's an early, rather uncharacteristic piece of hers I've always  
liked.

a poem with capital letters

john berryman asked me to write a poem about roosters.
elizabeth bishop, he said, once wrote a poem about roosters.
do your poems use capital letters? he asked. like god?
i said. god no, he said, like princeton! i said,
god preserve me if i ever write a poem about princeton! and i thought,
o john berryman, what has brought me into this company of poets
where the masculine thing to do is use capital letters
and even princeton's cock-a-hoop with god?s betters?

--Jane Cooper (1924-2007).  Maps & Windows.  Collier Books, 1974.   
[orig. Mercator's World: Poems 1947-1951]



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 4, 2007, at 8:09 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> Jane M. Cooper, Faculty Emerita, Helped Create SLC?s Writing Program
> Wednesday, October 31, 2007
>
> Jane Marvel Cooper, poet, Professor and Poet-in-Residence Emerita  
> at Sarah Lawrence College, died peacefully at Pennswood Village,  
> Newtown, P.A., on October 26th from complications due to  
> Parkinson's Disease.
>
> Jane Cooper joined the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College in 1950,  
> where she remained as a teacher and poet in residence until her  
> retirement in 1987. Together with Grace Paley, Jean Valentine,  
> Muriel Rukeyser and others, Cooper helped develop and enhance the  
> College?s writing program that became one of the most distinguished  
> in the country.  On her retirement after 37 years on the writing/ 
> literature faculty an endowed scholarship in her name was created  
> to support a writing student
>
>
>
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames  Mon Nov  5 14:45:48 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:45:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Jane Cooper RIP
In-Reply-To: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
References: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9EDFB99600A3E-13E4-23DB@FWM-M14.sysops.aol.com>

I forgot the URL when I posted this...
http://www.slc.edu/news-events/2007-2008/2007-10-31.php

-----Original Message-----
From: JforJames at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 9:09 pm
Subject: Jane Cooper RIP



Jane M. Cooper, Faculty Emerita, Helped Create SLC?s Writing Program
Wednesday, October 31, 2007 

?

Jane Marvel Cooper, poet, Professor and Poet-in-Residence Emerita at Sarah Lawrence College, died peacefully at Pennswood Village, Newtown, P.A., on October 26th from complications due to Parkinson's Disease. 

?

Jane Cooper joined the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College in 1950, where she remained as a teacher and poet in residence until her retirement in 1987. Together with Grace Paley, Jean Valentine, Muriel Rukeyser and others, Cooper helped develop and enhance the College?s writing program that became one of the most distinguished in the country.? On her retirement after 37 years on the writing/literature faculty an endowed scholarship in her name was created to support a writing student





See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.


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From jforjames  Mon Nov  5 15:53:42 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:53:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Wave Books Announcements
In-Reply-To: <472F77F2.7000300@english.umass.edu>
References: <472F77F2.7000300@english.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9EE0515A14D32-6A8-12A7@webmail-mf16.sysops.aol.com>








Attached Message




From:

info at wavepoetry.com



To:





Subject:

Wave Books Announcements



Date:

Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:57:06 -0400







ear Friends of Wave Books,
We have some exciting news?the release of a National Poetry Series winning
itle, and the launch of Dorothea Lasky?s ?Tiny Tour.?
WAVE BOOKS PROUDLY ANNOUNCES A NEW RELEASE
THE SCENTED FOX
y Laynie Browne
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/57?page=&by=new 
National Poetry Series Winner selected by Alice Notley
Laynie Browne?s seventh collection emerges from reconstructed tales and
reams. In these fragmented poetic spells, characters disappear and
e-emerge with their charms reconfigured, their stories unraveled, and
heir resolutions elusive.
?An icon for the generation of poets who are about to show up.? ?Ron
illiman
Laynie Browne was born and grew up in Los Angeles.  She attended the
niversity of California, Berkeley, and Brown University and was awarded
he Gertrude Stein Award in Innovative Poetry three times.  She is the
uthor of six other collections of poetry, including Daily Sonnets
Counterpath Press) and Drawing a Swan Before Memory (University of Georgia
ress).  She currently lives in Tucson.
A REALLY, REALLY SMALL BOOK TOUR
Dorothea Lasky, author of the newly released collection AWE, is embarking
n a six-stop book tour within the various rooms of her Philadelphia
partment and broadcasting the readings via her website:
ttp://www.birdinsnow.com 
The first two readings, in the kitchen and the living room with guest poets
oshua Beckman, Frank Sherlock, and Dan Machlin, have already been posted. 
ore readings coming soon, with C.A. Conrad, Noelle Kocot, and others!
Check out Dorothea Lasky's new book AWE
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/55?page=2&by=author
READINGS AND EVENTS
Be sure to check out the calendar section for information on upcoming
eadings for these and other Wave Books authors.
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/calendar   
SUBSCRIPTIONS AVAILABLE
Some 2007 subscriptions to our limited edition hardcovers are still
vailable. We have sold out of subscriptions in the past; so don?t miss out
n this opportunity to own signed, numbered, cloth bound editions by Eileen
yles, Christian Hawkey, and Joe Wenderoth, among others.
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/special_section/6
Softcover subscriptions to Wave 2007 titles are also available.  Softcover
ubscribers receive all titles published in 2007 at a special discount.
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/59 

ORTHCOMING TITLES
Keep your eye out in spring and summer 2008 for new poetry by Caroline Knox
nd John Godfrey, as well as fiction by Mary Ruefle.  More information:
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog?by=forthcoming 

--
f you do not want to receive any more Wave Books announcements for this
ist, please email info at wavepoetry.com with 'unsubscribe' in the subject
ine.

--
owered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com --








_______________________________________________
fa-alum mailing list
fa-alum at english.umass.edu
ttps://list.umass.edu/mailman/listinfo/mfa-alum


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From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov  5 16:58:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 22:58:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Jesse Glass
Message-ID: <00b901c81ff7$0ce497f0$b8de3052@ANNY>

Dear All,

Anyone familiar with classical Chinese and Japanese literature in
translation knows Burton Watson.  Happily, Burton is my neighbor and my
friend, and he agreed to allow Ahadada Books to "scoop" Columbia
University Press (Burton's usual publisher) by publishing Late Poems of
Lu You; The Old Man Who Does As He Pleases in a very attractive
bilingual addition, which also includes excerpts from Lu You's travel
diary.

Lu You (1125--1210) was among the most prolific of Song Dynasty poets.
His poems are notable for communicating a carefree enjoyment of life.
Burton Watson's limpid versions capture the spirit of the originals,
and are a joy to read as poems in themselves.

Small Press Distribution has a number of copies on hand for sale (a large
box of them are on the way to Berkeley from Japan even as I write), and
the book has already garnered a great review from Donald Richie in the
Japan Times.  (You may read it on their website.)

We also have a limited number of signed copies for sale.  For these
please back-channel me.

This book would make a great addition to anyone's library.

Thanks for reading!

Jess (The original Ahadada)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jforjames  Mon Nov  5 17:47:20 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:47:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <8C9EE14F55CD717-930-296B@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com>


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/poetry/article2785336.ece

>From The Sunday TimesNovember 4, 2007

Battlefield salvos

War poetry isn?t confined to the trenches ? veterans of Bosnia, Iraq and Malaya inspired Simon Armitage to tell their stories in verse

A couple of months ago, a friend asked me why there was no poetry dealing with our current war. I suppose he was thinking that the conflict in the Gulf has dominated the political headlines for several years now and was wondering why the poetic community hadn?t responded. Behind his question lurked the suggestion that latterday poetry is both effete and ineffectual, unable or unwilling to deal with the big subjects, being all style and little substance and having nothing to say to the everyday reader, and no way of saying it. Where is the war poetry, he wanted to know, and who are the war poets? 


________________________________________________________________________
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 17:55:21 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:55:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c27.25216e57.3460f959@cs.com>

In a message dated 11/5/2007 4:47:53 PM Central Standard Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> A couple of months ago, a friend asked me why there was no poetry dealing 
> with our current war. I suppose he was thinking that the conflict in the Gulf 
> has dominated the political headlines for several years now and was wondering 
> why the poetic community hadn?t responded. Behind his question lurked the 
> suggestion that latterday poetry is both effete and ineffectual, unable or 
> unwilling to deal with the big subjects, being all style and little substance and 
> having nothing to say to the everyday reader, and no way of saying it. Where 
> is the war poetry, he wanted to know, and who are the war poets? 
> 
> 
> 
Brian Turner won this year's Poets' Prize for Here, Bullet, a fine book of 
war poetry written by a soldier-poet.  There is also an interesting article in 
the current New York Times Book Review about the English curriculum at West 
Pointl.   
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 17:57:16 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:57:16 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <cf3.1eb383dd.3460f9cc@cs.com>

In a message dated 11/5/2007 4:47:53 PM Central Standard Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> A couple of months ago, a friend asked me why there was no poetry dealing 
> with our current war. I suppose he was thinking that the conflict in the Gulf 
> has dominated the political headlines for several years now and was wondering 
> why the poetic community hadn?t responded. Behind his question lurked the 
> suggestion that latterday poetry is both effete and ineffectual, unable or 
> unwilling to deal with the big subjects, being all style and little substance and 
> having nothing to say to the everyday reader, and no way of saying it. Where 
> is the war poetry, he wanted to know, and who are the war poets? 

And don't forget the NEA program "Project Homecoming."  I believe that some 
of the results are available online and that an anthology is due out soon.

http://www.nea.gov/national/homecoming/pressreleases/OHAnnounce.html   
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 17:58:09 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:58:09 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>

Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read about, say, 
the Korean War?   
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 18:28:44 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:28:44 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c6b.1c338a02.3461012c@cs.com>

Ah, I see that Turner is mentioned.  Good book.

Don't know why he mentioned Thomas, who wrote some poems before going to 
France but none while there.

http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/thomas2.html

He should have mentioned Graves and Blunden, among others, though Graves's 
war poems (like "The Persian Version") are masterpieces of indirection.  Despite 
the claims that are made for Rosenberg, I still think Sasson and Owen 
superior.  Rosenberg is good, but I still get a sort of "business as usual" feeling 
from his war poems.  Maybe by the time he wrote, the war had settled into what 
appeared to be a permanent condition.  With Sassoon and Owen, there's still 
that great sense of moral outrage.

One of the very interesting ones was the American John Allen Wyeth, though 
there's considerable confusion about his biography.  Apparently the Wyeth who 
wrote the poems was the son of the Civil War soldier-doctor.  Here is an 
interesting website on all (or mostly all) of the WWI writers:

http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/otherpoet.htm

For my money, the best Vietnam poems were written by non-combatants (or 
non-combat soldiers), Komunyakaa and Balaban.  And who is the most recognized 
American poet of WWII?  Jarrell.  Who never left the states.

When you get right down to it, most wars since the Trojan have inspired a 
fairly skimpy amount of good poems, with the exception of WWI, which was a type 
of war that reversed almost all of the traditional concepts of war as a 
glorious activity.

And don't forget Stephen Crane.  "Do Not Weep, Maiden, War Is Kind" is a 
great one, as are Whitman's (largely reportorial) war poems.  Cummings also has 
some good takes, though from his usual off-center perspective. This 
falling-short may have something to do with aesthetic distance in the face of such horror; 
that the British poets were able to do so well with the subject matter may 
have something to do with their having been brought up with all the conventional 
ideas of "sacrifice" and "nobility" for the Empire.  This gave them a natural 
sounding board for their contrary responses.

Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory is surely relevant in this regard.

If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as Turner 
does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous media coverage.  Still, 
this doesn't explain the absence of Korean War poetry, which certainly 
provided enough amazing imagery (those shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my 
junior high school teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets.

I find the subject of war poetry consistenly fascinating, mainly because (in 
Graves's terms) there was so much "Repression of War Experience."  I think 
that a lot of it had (and has) to do with the inability of poets to find an 
appropriate idiom to express what they have seen.  Turner does a good job, in a 
flat, objective, WCWilliams sort of way.   
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From AlMaginnes  Mon Nov  5 19:23:06 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:23:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c65.201ec579.34610dea@aol.com>

I saw Turner read about six months ago and it was  riveting. The poems don't 
do much for me on the page, but he read them  wonderfully and with obvious 
emotion. I bought a copy of the book for my  neighbor who spent a year in Iraq 
and he nearly cried. 



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From Opus40-01  Mon Nov  5 22:23:08 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:23:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
Message-ID: <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>

A lot of blues songs in the early 50s made reference to a brother in Korea;.

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
> Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read 
> about, say, the Korean War?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From wwmorgan  Mon Nov  5 22:55:57 2007
From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:55:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>

William (Bill) Wantling (1932-74) has several Korean War poems.  I've just
been looking around on the Net for a sample or two, but I couldn't find any.


Bill Morgan  

> Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read 
> about, say, the Korean War?
>
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/





From grahamd  Mon Nov  5 23:49:11 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 22:49:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
Message-ID: <991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>

Etheridge Knight served in Korea as a medic, I believe.  Was badly  
wounded, and got hooked on narcotics, which in turn led to him going  
to prison.  Though he wrote many poems about his prison experiences,  
I'm not aware of any about his war experience, and only a couple that  
glancingly refer to Korea.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 5, 2007, at 9:55 PM, Bill Morgan wrote:

> William (Bill) Wantling (1932-74) has several Korean War poems.   
> I've just
> been looking around on the Net for a sample or two, but I couldn't  
> find any.
>
>
> Bill Morgan
>
>> Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read
>> about, say, the Korean War?
>>
> Tad Richards
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From rwilsnac  Tue Nov  6 10:05:21 2007
From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:05:21 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
	<472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>

Sam Gwynn wrote,

"If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as 
Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous media 
coverage.  Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean War poetry, 
which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those shit-fertilized 
rice fields) to inspire my junior high school teachers (who were of that 
generation) but not the poets."

There is an anthology titled _Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of the 
Korean War_, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers 
University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress, 
Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, and 
Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know about how 
directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be worth the effort 
to track down a copy of the book.

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
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From cervantes.james  Tue Nov  6 10:28:41 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:28:41 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <648208b60711060728r7db8f070leb53b87d8420d9ef@mail.gmail.com>

You might check out "The War Papers" at Big Bridge:
http://www.bigbridge.org/warindex.htm


-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From editor  Tue Nov  6 14:30:27 2007
From: editor (David Baratier)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:30:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <200711030826.lA38QgWv017696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <256581.71823.qm@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Lyn was one of the people who started me out in poetry when I was about 14 years old or so. Back then in the mid-eighties she would spend 3 or 4 hours jaunts (not sure how many days a week) in the Niskayuna Co-op plugging nickles into the photocopying machine to reproduce poems. Lyn never paid much attention to guides, in fact she would often take a piece that appeared in a national journal, photocopy it out of the journal, not even hide the page number, and send it to another few dozen places. She used the Dustbook directory addressed an envelope to every potential poetry publisher, and did this multiple (3-5) times every year plus sent to all of the listings in the new pubs section of Small Magazine Review and Small Press Review before they were combined into one publication.
   
  I suppose the poems haven't "sold" like Buk because they are not friendly to the audience, or to the publisher for that matter in terms of the amount of paper they require. The stilted, often single word lines, rely on enjambment rather than a fluid voice which seems to be the barometer for popularity. Also nearly all of her publishers were small press places with poor distribution that went out of business. 


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
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From halvard  Tue Nov  6 17:28:17 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:28:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
	<472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>

Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
those more recently out from a press the name of
which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:

> Sam Gwynn wrote,
>
> "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as  
> Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous  
> media coverage.  Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean  
> War poetry, which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those  
> shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my junior high school  
> teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets."
>
> There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of  
> the Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers  
> University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress,  
> Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, and  
> Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know about  
> how directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be worth the  
> effort to track down a copy of the book.
>
> Richard W. Wilsnack
> rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Opus40-01  Tue Nov  6 18:17:15 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:17:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update: Situations 10
Message-ID: <4730F5FB.5070105@opus40.org>

As Bob?s net draws tighter around Carlene, and Polly prepares to fly to 
her daughter?s side, it?s time to choose your partner for The Tragic 
Polka. And it?s all in Situations, Episode 10.

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2111

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From jorgensen_a  Tue Nov  6 21:15:03 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 18:15:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] WHERE (THEY ARE HERE) ARE THE WAR POETS
Message-ID: <955043.79399.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

On Train to Krak?w

>From our dining car, a man 
in a ?double-breasted leather pea coat,
wide-lapeled and espresso colored,?
stares with eyes half-closed. 

    It's in 
the tone of the voice and 
how you hold your cigarette, 
he says, smirking:
-unless your muse is the bomb!
And where bayonets locomote, 
there's only virtue.

Leaning back, he tiptoes a postcard 
to hip-pocket, removing a palm leaf 
woven into a tiny cross.

Gunpowder recedes as we depart Ostrava.-


While Thinking Dylan Thomas
Irrelevant to any argument 
of justice & universal equality, an organism
whose only propensity's 
the attempt to develop into a human life-

    ONE.

Goats (mountain 
sheep)?ll climb

wandering their way
without contempt

for their
excretions (i.e. shit)

    TWO.

Waving a glass
of MD 20/20
and cussing husband Stuart


the daughter?d
take the stranger
down a footpath.

    THREE.

This is alls
I want the planet
to be (STOP)

Like who I?m 
on the inside's 
not good enough (STOP)

?Think of England
-that?s what 
ladies do in war.?

    FOUR.

Death?s freedom
to all the spectrum of hills!



Schadenfreude
In memory of Otto Dix

If pushing limb
through an eggshell
were easier-?Weeste noch??

not entirely
more daunting, say-
?Sehr wirklich Leben,?

thousands of
daisy cutters [1], der
Selbsterm?rd (1000 lb/in?),

might?ve led one
to meadows, however
miniscule, of quiet.-

But looking on
long enough, ?Nach
diese Platter dort.?-

one becomes
drowsy,-feels anemic.
?Relative,? he said,

?-to naught.?
No voice. Stilleben.
And all is graceful.

[Footnote 1:  BLU-82B, nicknamed ?daisy cutter,? is an extremely lethal 15,000 pound bomb originally designed to clear ground for helicopter landing areas.] 


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From jorgensen_a  Wed Nov  7 23:04:36 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <200711061700.lA6H06Ww026162@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <764406.64849.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

An apology if my most recent post seemed to come out of left field, as they say - and I tend to do this while stumbling to communicate. I remember a poem sent to me during the beginning of the current Iraq war, a kind of Dr. Seuss-type thing, written by a noted poet who preferred to remain anonymous. Anyway, I was perplexed by his decision to remain so, feeling at the time that this approach lessened the influence such a sharing of ideas might have, and at such a critical time. With regards to war poems, I wonder, and please correct me for sounding ignorant, if that is how I might sound, but is part of the problem, as least Stateside, that not nearly enough poets are traveling and living abroad, exposed to new perspectives, approached by realities starkly different to what is relative comfort on the home front, very far removed from arms and limbs. I don't know.

Hope those 'war poems' (or 'conflict poems') might have brought something to this thoughtful list.


Best,
Alex


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From jjeffreymail  Wed Nov  7 23:10:49 2007
From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <943998.46915.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


So tonight I get an email from the Poetry Society of America about an upcoming reading.  And what are they reading?  Poetry and prose of the Spanish Civil War.

I can't take it.

I don't think that there's a lack of war poets or poems; my couplet of thoughts about this thread is that 1) there are too many poems about the war, and 2) most poems about war are gawd-awful--and, luckily, unpublished.

It's just too easy, when torn death is involved, to write something that people think is "powerful."  All you have to do is go to a handful of open mike poetry readings and you'll hear them.

     Billy's bones are burning
     a thousand miles from Mom
     
(The crowd nods and "Mmmm"s.  One woman sniffles.  Someone mumbles angrily about the President.")

 And so on, more descriptions of death, loose limbs, futility, a mention about oil, the wealthy...etc.  Usual stuff.

You don't see that sort of lurid yanking in Owen.  No need for that if you can actually write poetry.  War poems are hard to keep above the simple splashing of blood to draw a gasp or the easy political posturing (which is always assumed to posture against the war. Where are the good poems written that praise a war?  Even, say, fighting Nazi Germany?).

Anyway, have a good night all.  And remember poor Billy.  (More nodding.  "That piece was so powerful," the deaf man says.)

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From elemenope_productions  Wed Nov  7 23:36:41 2007
From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 04:36:41 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] War Poetry
Message-ID: <BLU103-W8C1079D3239FF8631B3F4908B0@phx.gbl>


World War 4 is asymmetrical and like a cat's cradleflashes up anywhere the IslamoFascists seek to strike. If Generals David Petraeus or McMaster are NOT your generals the way Generals Patton or MacArthur were your dad or granddad's generals in World War II, then youprobably stand against President Sarkozy, if not out and outaiding and abetting Nancy Pelosi in her outrageous backdoortreason with the PKK to destroy the Turkey/US compactwhich permits us to supply our forces in their oncoming victory over the fiends that would behead us all in the name of their evil god and for the good people of Iraq who want to play soccer and sell fresh fruit in their souks without standing in the shadow of some unAmerican tyrant. If you aren't willing to make a citizen's arrest of those who sold the ChiKoms the plans for miniaturized h-bombs and through the Loral Corporation the launch systems that now enable the Children of Mao to destroy satellites in space in order to finance their political ambitions to have the American Republic fall to the dreams of Saul Alinsky, then you are either too busy making an honest living to get involved in any of this, or you are working on behalf of America's enemies even though you don't think you are. A word about Kucinich.  He saw what he saw but can't come out and full force say it.  My problem with Kucinich, the one who saw the floating triangle at Shirley Maclaine's mountainchalet. being the public contact point is that he looks like Alfred E. Newman.  This is all the UFO movement needs, Alfred E. Newman.  If this is the way the ETs intend to do their disclosure, I may just have to decline any involvement in the matter whatsoever.
 
 
R.E. Dillon
 
 
P.S.  For those who caught my friend, Gordon Liddy, do his interview of Shirley Maclaine earlier this week over right wing free radio, let me opine that she did very well!  She wouldn't permit him to indulge in lawyerly logic chopping or rely on his version of physics (The speed of light being topped out at
whatever 186 K a sec.) to deny the ET saucer craft to pop in and out at the speed of thought or to surf the chi.  Or to deny Jaime Masson's huge video shows overhead Montezuma's old haunts at Teotihuac?n. 
_________________________________________________________________
Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
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From gejs1  Thu Nov  8 07:19:19 2007
From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:19:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
References: <943998.46915.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c82201$96b8bc20$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b>

Poetry is as dis-enfranchised from 
this war as we the citizens are. Just
another of the unintended (but in some
quarters welcomed) consequences of
this war's creeping privatization.

Gerald S.



  So tonight I get an email from the Poetry Society of America about an upcoming reading.  And what are they reading?  Poetry and prose of the Spanish Civil War.

  I can't take it.

  I don't think that there's a lack of war poets or poems; my couplet of thoughts about this thread is that 1) there are too many poems about the war, and 2) most poems about war are gawd-awful--and, luckily, unpublished.

  It's just too easy, when torn death is involved, to write something that people think is "powerful."  All you have to do is go to a handful of open mike poetry readings and you'll hear them.

       Billy's bones are burning
       a thousand miles from Mom
       
  (The crowd nods and "Mmmm"s.  One woman sniffles.  Someone mumbles angrily about the President.")

  And so on, more descriptions of death, loose limbs, futility, a mention about oil, the wealthy...etc.  Usual stuff.

  You don't see that sort of lurid yanking in Owen.  No need for that if you can actually write poetry.  War poems are hard to keep above the simple splashing of blood to draw a gasp or the easy political posturing (which is always assumed to posture against the war. Where are the good poems written that praise a war?  Even, say, fighting Nazi Germany?).

  Anyway, have a good night all.  And remember poor Billy.  (More nodding.  "That piece was so powerful," the deaf man says.)

  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames  Thu Nov  8 08:45:16 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:45:16 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] LitStation, new season
Message-ID: <c48.1b1310ad.34646cec@aol.com>

LitStation
Filling Station for the Mind

_http://litstation.htt_ (http://litstation.com) 

>From the web site: "We are an online radio station dedicated 
to  streaming the best radio and archival work done in the 
literary arts. We  have six great series for you this season, 
and will be bringing you more.  And stay with us after each 
feature for the LitMix, an eclectic blend of  literature sure to 
please and surprise you."

The LitStation web site  streams a rotating schedule of readings,
interviews, and literary shows. The  current schedule includes: 
Left Hand Reading Series, Segue Reading Series,  Cross Cul-
tural Poetics, Book Beat, LitMix, RadioRadio, and  Linebreak.

Make a special effort to listen: LitStation was organized and  is
managed by two Connecticut residents and poets, Jim Finnegan
and  Hendree Milward. 

_http://litstation.htt_ (http://litstation.com/) 





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From alexdickow9  Thu Nov  8 13:22:54 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] atticus/finch
In-Reply-To: <200711081700.lA8H05Ww030955@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <424343.69700.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

FIY, sorry for any cross-posting:

[Please distribute this post far and wide: small press
publishers
depend on your effort to get the word out!]

Dear Friends:

Atticus/Finch is honored to announce the release of
our newest
chapbook, Snow Sensitive Skin, a collaborative
long-poem by San
Francisco authors Taylor Brady and Rob Halpern. While
Atticus/Finch
commissioned this work back in 2005, the collaboration
didn't begin in
earnest until June of 2006, in the midst of the (most
recent) martial
conflict between Israel and Lebanon. Taking as their
point of
departure Lebanese musician and visual artist Mazen
Kerbaj's
composition "Starry Night" (see below for a link), an
improvisation
between Mazen and the Israeli airforce for "trumpet
and bombs," the
authors challenged themselves to face the violence of
war with the
deactivating non-force of the poem, drawing into stark
contrast
notions of responsibility, praxis, and the labor of
poetry during
times of war. The authors write in their
acknowledgements, "if we want
to give ourselves to a present that is something other
than the
debased 'now,' and to a future that will not have been
terminal, every
second language must be taken up as an act of love."
As such, Brady
and Halpern took the very notion of collaboration to
task, demanding
that the composition unfold together, in the same
room, in real time,
in order to undergo and occupy this second language
(in all of its
difficulty) in a present foreign to the terminal
'now.'

Snow Sensitive Skin is a tour de force in the most
literal sense, a
commitment to undertake the difficulty of language as
aporia and
possibility, and at 72 pages of tightly weft lines,
dedicated to "the
promise of demilitarized time," this "chapbook" is
certainly ambitious
in scope.

If that weren't enough, folks in and around the San
Francisco Bay Area
will have the pleasure of seeing Brady and Halpern
read from the book
at its launch this Sunday, November 11th, at Oakland
institution New
Yipes (21 Grand, 416 25th Street) at 7pm (along with
fellow poet
Garrett Caples), and copies of the book will certainly
be on hand for
interested parties.

In the meantime, for those of us happily residing
elsewhere, the book
can be purchased now using credit card or check. And,
as is the case
with all Atticus/Finch books, this volume will sell
out relatively
quickly, so order while you've got it on your mind!

To obtain a copy, use your credit card at our website
(www.atticusfinch.org), or send $10 (well-concealed
cash, check, or
money order (made payable to Michael Cross)) to:

Atticus/Finch Chapbooks
c/o Michael Cross
State University of New York at Buffalo
Samuel Clemens Hall #306
Buffalo NY 14260-4610


On a related note, we still have a few copies of
Patrick Durgin's
Imitation Poems, if you'd like to bundle your order,
and do keep your
eyes open for the next A/F volume (coming this
December), Lo, Bittern
by Austin poet C.J. Martin.

And, finally, here's the link to Kerbaj's "Starry
Night:"
www.muniak.com/mazen_kerbaj-starry_night.mp3

Please do not send messages to the entire list when
you intend only to
reply to the sender.



www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From jforjames  Thu Nov  8 14:01:59 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:01:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jane Cooper RIP
In-Reply-To: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
References: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F050F9AF69D0-ACC-46CD@webmail-me20.sysops.aol.com>

Joe Duemer's blog has a post and poem re Cooper...

http://www.sharpsand.net/2007/11/07/an-exemplary-lyric-by-jane-cooper/

--
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Thu Nov  8 14:29:58 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:29:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <943998.46915.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F054E21D8B84-ACC-4956@webmail-me20.sysops.aol.com>

John,
You're likely to hear some bad poems about any?subject (local, topical, or universal)?at an open mike.
What you're talking about?are cliches, typical responses, well-worn perspectives that are
the stock?& trade of?amateur poets.

But there is something to the fact that powerful subjects, universal subjects, love/war/death/family/nature/injustice/everafter/etc.,
are probably the most difficult subjects to address, particularly to approach in a new way, from a different
angle..but perhaps are the most necessary subjects. I wonder if a poet could create a respected body of work while 
scrupulously avoiding the 'big subjects', as we say? Of course one time-honored approach is to do a poem
on a little/small subject that somehow casts a large shadow when the light of insight hits it.

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:10 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?



So tonight I get an email from the Poetry Society of America about an upcoming reading.? And what are they reading?? Poetry and prose of the Spanish Civil War.

I can't take it.

I don't think that there's a lack of war poets or poems; my couplet of thoughts about this thread is that 1) there are too many poems about the war, and 2) most poems about war are gawd-awful--and, luckily, unpublished.

It's just too easy, when torn death is involved, to write something that people think is "powerful."? All you have to do is go to a handful of open mike poetry readings and you'll hear them.

???? Billy's bones are burning
???? a thousand miles from Mom
???? 
(The crowd nods and "Mmmm"s.? One woman sniffles.? Someone mumbles angrily about the President.")

And so on, more descriptions of death, loose limbs, futility, a mention about oil, the wealthy...etc.? Usual stuff.

You don't see that sort of lurid yanking in Owen.? No need for that if you can actually write poetry.? War poems are hard to keep above the simple splashing of blood to draw a gasp or the easy political posturing (which is always assumed to posture against the war. Where are the good poems written that praise a war?? Even, say, fighting Nazi Germany?).

Anyway, have a good night all.? And remember poor Billy.? (More nodding.? "That piece was so powerful," the deaf man says.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
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From halvard  Thu Nov  8 16:38:03 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:38:03 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] 
	Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 13, Fall 2007, Now Online!
Message-ID: <C4546612-D7B4-465B-BC07-557C3CBB700F@earthlink.net>


**********************************************************

Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 13, Fall 2007, Now Online!

Featuring poetry by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Suzanne
Ryan, Stephen Baraban, Hugh Fox, Holly Iglesias, Skip Fox,
Sheila Murphy, Mark Weiss, Roger Mitchell, Gary Beck,
Gianina Opris and James Grabill; and fiction by Helen Duberstein,
Anne Earney, Joan Newburger, and Niama Leslie Williams.

         http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr13.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review

Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry for Issue #14,
which will be out in Feb. 2008. Poetry submissions should go, only
by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net.

Please include "HSR14 submission" and your name in your subject line,
and also include a brief bio note with your submission. All poems in
a single attachment, please, and/or in body of email message.

Fiction submissions closed until further notice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions.

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/

PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS

**********************************************************

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From ATambellini01  Thu Nov  8 18:18:38 2007
From: ATambellini01 (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:18:38 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c49.1c7b8586.3464f34e@aol.com>

I think some of the good ones are here
 
_http://dougholder.blogspot.com/2007/11/poets-against-killing-fields.html_ 
(http://dougholder.blogspot.com/2007/11/poets-against-killing-fields.html) 



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From cervantes.james  Thu Nov  8 19:43:26 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:43:26 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall, 2007 Salt River Review
Message-ID: <648208b60711081643u44ef4efbx96474b3fa75a708b@mail.gmail.com>

The Salt River Review, Volume 10, Number 2, Fall 2007, is now online
with Poetry by Carlos Barbarito, Mario Benedetti, Pablo Antonio
Cuadra, Julie R. Enszer, Jerry Mirskin, Lee Passarella, Jami
Macarty,Doug Ramspeck, Tad Richards, Matt Sadler, Elizabeth Laborde,
Steve Trebellas & Lisa Steinman.  Fiction by Denis Emorine, Tsipi
Keller, Norman Lock & Andrea Fitzpatrick.  Poetry editor for this
issue was Greg Simon, fiction editor was Carol Novack.

Submissions are now open for the Winter issue - please read guidelines
carefully.  We will be celebrating our 10th anniversary online with
that issue and the following Spring, 2008 issue.

Visit at http://www.poetserv.org/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From suelin6787  Fri Nov  9 05:48:03 2007
From: suelin6787 (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 04:48:03 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
References: <c49.1c7b8586.3464f34e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002201c822be$0171e070$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

I think you are mistaken.  "It's a matter of record that Al Gore won the 2000 election."  Please...

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ATambellini01 at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?


  I think some of the good ones are here

  http://dougholder.blogspot.com/2007/11/poets-against-killing-fields.html





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From AlMaginnes  Fri Nov  9 07:40:24 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 07:40:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c86.1d2bc522.3465af38@aol.com>

Well, Gore certainly won the popular vote. And the Florida recount was  never 
really finished. But Bush did get elected by the Supreme Court. 



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From suelin6787  Fri Nov  9 07:51:28 2007
From: suelin6787 (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 06:51:28 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
References: <c86.1d2bc522.3465af38@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c822cf$3ef92870$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

So it's "on record" that Gore won...

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: AlMaginnes at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 6:40 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?


  Well, Gore certainly won the popular vote. And the Florida recount was never really finished. But Bush did get elected by the Supreme Court. 





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From halvard  Fri Nov  9 09:52:41 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 08:52:41 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] HSR13 online (w/ correct link)
Message-ID: <16512BEF-EE1F-43B7-9C71-3BE8242A65D6@earthlink.net>

**********************************************************

Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 13, Fall 2007, Now Online!

Featuring poetry by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Suzanne
Ryan, Stephen Baraban, Hugh Fox, Holly Iglesias, Skip Fox,
Sheila Murphy, Mark Weiss, Roger Mitchell, Gary Beck,
Gianina Opris and James Grabill; and fiction by Helen Duberstein,
Anne Earney, Joan Newburger, and Niama Leslie Williams.

         http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr13.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review

Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry for Issue #14,
which will be out in Feb. 2008. Poetry submissions should go, only
by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net.

Please include "HSR14 submission" and your name in your subject line,
and also include a brief bio note with your submission. All poems in
a single attachment, please, and/or in body of email message.

Fiction submissions closed until further notice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions.

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/

PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS

**********************************************************

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From JforJames  Fri Nov  9 16:52:23 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:52:23 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry market in freefall;
	Fed Chairman calls for bailout, with a spoon
Message-ID: <c4a.2220b952.34663097@aol.com>





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From JforJames  Fri Nov  9 17:10:28 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:10:28 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Market Collapse Threatens Stability Of
	Literature Economy
Message-ID: <c3d.233eb456.346634d4@aol.com>





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From editor  Fri Nov  9 17:36:45 2007
From: editor (editor)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:36:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stein - Malcolm - Ozick = Stein
Message-ID: <64055.72.227.132.75.1194647805.squirrel@webmail.web.com>

This paragraph, from Philip Hensher reviews *Two Lives: Gertrude and
Alice* by Janet Malcolm, from

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/10/25/bomalc120.xml

?There is, too, the vexed question of how Stein and Toklas managed to stay
alive in Vichy France, and their attitude to their Jewishness--Toklas
converted to Christianity in old age.?It seems to enrage Malcolm that
Stein wasn't more interested in her ethnic identity.?

especially that last sentence, reminded me of a short essay that appeared
in the New York Times Magazine, November 24, 1996, by Cynthia Ozick
entitled ?A Prophet of Modernism:?Gertrude Stein.??In it, Ozick writes of
the ?copycat Cubist?:??She intended to seize and personify modernism
itself, and she succeeded.?Consequently, we cannot imagine Gertrude Stein
without Picasso.?Like him, she wanted to invent Cubism--not in oils but in
words.?She worked to subtract plain meaning from English prose.?Whether
she was a charlatan or a philosopher, it is even now hard to say.???No one
now reads Gertrude Stein, though a few of her titles have lives of their
own:??Four Saints in Three Acts,? which Virgil Thomson made into an opera;
?The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas,? written by Gertrude Stein about
Gertrude Stein.???During the German occupation of Paris, when Jews were
being hunted by the thousands, these two Jewish women fled to obscurity in
the countryside; their Montparnasse flat, with its paintings, was left
unmolested.?And when Gertrude Stein died in 1946, at 72, her name was a
household word (or quip), her mannish head an avant-garde image, and she
had become one with the movement she touted.???At the close of its century
of brilliance and triumph, modernism begins now to look a little
old-fashioned, even a bit stale or exhausted, and certainly
conventional--but what is fresher, and sassier, and more enchantingly
silly than ?A rose is a rose is a rose. ...???This endearing, enduring,
durable and derisible chant of a copycat Cubist is almost all that is left
of Gertrude Stein.??

posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino?

http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/

e?





From jorgensen_a  Sat Nov 10 06:12:19 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:12:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <200711092124.lA9LORWw010025@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <747432.2850.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I don't know.




--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 10 08:39:27 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:39:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <747432.2850.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <747432.2850.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4735B48F.3090507@nut-n-but.net>

Some of mine haven't made it.  I am sure it's some kind of computer 
glitch.  It seems random.  Several years of archives have also 
disappeared--unless they've been brought back since I last checked.

--Bob

Alexander Jorgensen wrote:
> Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which 
> aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know 
> how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I 
> don't know.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of 
> the stuff that nature replaces it with."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From halvard  Sat Nov 10 09:52:07 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:52:07 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
	<472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
	<42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C3014D49-3353-462F-ACDA-0BBF78FD984C@earthlink.net>

And some of them are here--

http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/default.asp

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
> Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
> those more recently out from a press the name of
> which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
> good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:
>
>> Sam Gwynn wrote,
>>
>> "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war  
>> (as Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous  
>> media coverage.  Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean  
>> War poetry, which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those  
>> shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my junior high school  
>> teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets."
>>
>> There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of  
>> the Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers  
>> University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress,  
>> Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling,  
>> and Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know  
>> about how directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be  
>> worth the effort to track down a copy of the book.
>>
>> Richard W. Wilsnack
>> rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd  Sat Nov 10 11:14:22 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:14:22 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser
Message-ID: <C7BC03B0-69BB-483E-9BC6-1133CE4377CA@ripon.edu>

David Mason appreciates the work of Ted Kooser for *The Dark Horse*,  
a Scottish journal I recently discovered.  The article is in a PDF  
file, address below.  The main magazine page is here:

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse.html

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse/archive/MasonOnKooser.pdf

Here's a snippet:

" It?s a great poem ["That Was I," fr. *Delights & Shadows*] without  
making any big gestures at greatness. It has all of Ted?s wisdom in  
it, his compassion and skepticism and respect for life.  If you open  
yourself to what this poetry offers, you have to admit that much of  
what seems so simple is deceptively so. For this reason, Ted is  
commonly compared to Frost, and while his vision is not quite Frost?s  
and his technique is less inclined to the sort of formal mastery  
Frost espoused, he is indeed a writer who repays re-reading even  
while he speaks to us directly on a first hearing. Critics who bypass  
Kooser, thinking him insufficiently complex, are missing a rigorous,  
original American voice."


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 10 13:26:12 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:26:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser
In-Reply-To: <C7BC03B0-69BB-483E-9BC6-1133CE4377CA@ripon.edu>
References: <C7BC03B0-69BB-483E-9BC6-1133CE4377CA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4735F7C4.8000508@nut-n-but.net>



David Graham wrote:
> David Mason appreciates the work of Ted Kooser for *The Dark Horse*, a 
> Scottish journal I recently discovered.  The article is in a PDF file, 
> address below.  The main magazine page is here:
>
> http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse.html
>
> http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse/archive/MasonOnKooser.pdf
>
> Here's a snippet:
>
> " It?s a great poem ["That Was I," fr. *Delights & Shadows*] without 
> making any big gestures at greatness. It has all of Ted?s wisdom in 
> it, his compassion and skepticism and respect for life.  If you open 
> yourself to what this poetry offers, you have to admit that much of 
> what seems so simple is deceptively so. For this reason, Ted is 
> commonly compared to Frost, and while his vision is not quite Frost?s 
> and his technique is less inclined to the sort of formal mastery Frost 
> espoused, he is indeed a writer who repays re-reading even while he 
> speaks to us directly on a first hearing. Critics who bypass Kooser, 
> thinking him insufficiently complex, are missing a rigorous, original 
> American voice."
>
I'm afraid my predictable response to this is, "It isn't how rigorously 
original a poet's voice is but what he does with it that counts, and 
Kooser just putts the average person's life back at him.

--from Guess-Who
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From JforJames  Sat Nov 10 18:02:53 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:02:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
Message-ID: <d09.2117b438.3467929d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/10/2007 6:12:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
jorgensen_a at yahoo.com writes:

Many of  us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which aren't 
flares, do  not make it to the list. I would be curious to know how rampant 
this might be.  Is there some sort of collusion involved? I don't  know.




Alexander, are you saying that posts of yours or others aren't getting thru  
to the list? I'm the only one behind the curtain, and this list is not  
moderated. All posts should get thru. If I shut someone off, the offender
gets a lot of forewarning. So it must be software issue...
 
Note: if a post has blind cc's and or lots of cc's, often this  software 
assumes it's spam and discards.
So it's best to post to this list in a single email rather than  as a mass 
blast.

Anyway, please forward posts that haven't come thru and I'll have my  tech 
helper look into it.

Jim Finnegan



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From JforJames  Sat Nov 10 18:18:30 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:18:30 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
Message-ID: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

.   Several years of archives have also disappeared--


I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from  happening 
again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth saving on  your hard 
drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and allows us to use it.  But I live in 
Connecticut and I found out last year that my tech  support now lives in the 
Pacific Northwest. The virtual world  and the physical world are far-flung and 
imperfect.
Jim Finnegan  



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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 10 18:28:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:28:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
References: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>
Message-ID: <027001c823f1$72612a00$dbac3452@ANNY>

Nietzsche would have drawn this to the tragedy of the Uebermensch.
I had pc problems for two days, it felt like living in the desert.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST


  In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    .  Several years of archives have also disappeared--
  I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from happening again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth saving on your hard drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and allows us to use it. But I live in Connecticut and I found out last year that my tech support now lives in the Pacific Northwest. The virtual world and the physical world are far-flung and imperfect.
  Jim Finnegan  





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From jorgensen_a  Sat Nov 10 20:34:13 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <200711101700.lAAH04Ww002450@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <271920.11542.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It does what it should, want, I guess. It has a culture, function, as anything does. Knocking head against wall and should better think these things through silently (as they are my questions). I suppose if one wants to change anything one should go about taking the time and making the investment - the attempting to invent sort of thing, marketplace of ideas, as they say. "All baby steps..."
   
  agj

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than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. SUNY BUFFALO LIST (Alexander Jorgensen)
2. Re: SUNY BUFFALO LIST (Bob Grumman)
3. Re: Re: Where are the war poets? (Halvard Johnson)
4. Kooser (David Graham)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:12:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Alexander Jorgensen 
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: <747432.2850.qm at web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I don't know.




--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:39:27 -0500
From: Bob Grumman 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"

Message-ID: <4735B48F.3090507 at nut-n-but.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some of mine haven't made it. I am sure it's some kind of computer 
glitch. It seems random. Several years of archives have also 
disappeared--unless they've been brought back since I last checked.

--Bob

Alexander Jorgensen wrote:
> Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which 
> aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know 
> how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I 
> don't know.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of 
> the stuff that nature replaces it with."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:52:07 -0600
From: Halvard Johnson 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"

Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

And some of them are here--

http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/default.asp

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
> Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
> those more recently out from a press the name of
> which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
> good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:
>
>> Sam Gwynn wrote,
>>
>> "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war 
>> (as Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous 
>> media coverage. Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean 
>> War poetry, which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those 
>> shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my junior high school 
>> teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets."
>>
>> There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of 
>> the Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers 
>> University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress, 
>> Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, 
>> and Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know 
>> about how directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be 
>> worth the effort to track down a copy of the book.
>>
>> Richard W. Wilsnack
>> rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:14:22 -0600
From: David Graham 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser
To: "NewPoetry & Views" 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

David Mason appreciates the work of Ted Kooser for *The Dark Horse*, 
a Scottish journal I recently discovered. The article is in a PDF 
file, address below. The main magazine page is here:

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse.html

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse/archive/MasonOnKooser.pdf

Here's a snippet:

" It?s a great poem ["That Was I," fr. *Delights & Shadows*] without 
making any big gestures at greatness. It has all of Ted?s wisdom in 
it, his compassion and skepticism and respect for life. If you open 
yourself to what this poetry offers, you have to admit that much of 
what seems so simple is deceptively so. For this reason, Ted is 
commonly compared to Frost, and while his vision is not quite Frost?s 
and his technique is less inclined to the sort of formal mastery 
Frost espoused, he is indeed a writer who repays re-reading even 
while he speaks to us directly on a first hearing. Critics who bypass 
Kooser, thinking him insufficiently complex, are missing a rigorous, 
original American voice."


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 41, Issue 12
******************************************



--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From editor  Sat Nov 10 20:34:55 2007
From: editor (David Baratier)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: flares
In-Reply-To: <200711101700.lAAH04Wv002450@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Alex--
   
  Usually when I am flaming (at least since Amy's monitor) I fully deserve the post removed. I find that by turning up the insinuations to an unquestioned point of pointedness, it relieves me when the message is bounced, no bother caused at all. It is quite cathartic but every so often a slightly vile one still makes it to the list, or a two edged interior joke ambiguous enough not to be noticed. In any case they create an unquestioned cohesiveness for my persona, rather than splintering by wondering why.


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
 __________________________________________________
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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 10 21:37:34 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:37:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>
References: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>
Message-ID: <47366AEE.8030301@nut-n-but.net>



JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>
>     .  Several years of archives have also disappeared--
>
> I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from 
> happening again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth saving 
> on your hard drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and allows us to 
> use it. But I live in Connecticut and I found out last year that my 
> tech support now lives in the Pacific Northwest. The virtual world 
> and the physical world are far-flung and imperfect.
> Jim Finnegan 
Them things happen, James.  Never blamed you. 

By the way, I'm now confused about this thread: are we talking about 
New-Poetry or Buffalo?  I haven't been to Buffalo for a while.

--Bob
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From jfq  Sat Nov 10 22:52:52 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:52:52 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <47366AEE.8030301@nut-n-but.net>
References: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com> <47366AEE.8030301@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <47367C94.1030709@myuw.net>

I think Alex was talking about Buffalo. Although Amy has let everything 
of mine through over there, so i doubt there's collusion.

Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>
> JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>>
>>     .  Several years of archives have also disappeared--
>>
>> I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from 
>> happening again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth 
>> saving on your hard drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and 
>> allows us to use it. But I live in Connecticut and I found out last 
>> year that my tech support now lives in the Pacific Northwest. The 
>> virtual world and the physical world are far-flung and imperfect.
>> Jim Finnegan 
> Them things happen, James.  Never blamed you. 
>
> By the way, I'm now confused about this thread: are we talking about 
> New-Poetry or Buffalo?  I haven't been to Buffalo for a while.
>
> --Bob
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From jforjames  Sun Nov 11 19:23:44 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:23:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] David Amram, musician and jazz poet
Message-ID: <8C9F2D96B8CCB1E-2B8-8CA7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com>




http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2007/nov/10/whereidratherbe.saturday?gusrc=rss&feed=travelWhere I'd rather be
David Amram, musician and jazz poet

The Guardian Saturday November 10 2007 
What are you working on right now? 

I'm in London to play at the London International Poetry and Song Festival, to mark the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On the Road. I'll be doing what I did with Jack in October 1957 at our first jazz poetry reading at the Brata Art Gallery in New York - accompanying poets and readers. 


I'll play every night, spontaneously accompanying whoever wants me to. I don't need to have read the poetry before, I just listen. On Monday night I'm doing my Cairo to Kerouac piece, playing music inspired by my travels in Africa with some Kerouac readings. I hope to encourage young people to come closer to the creative world, even if they work as barristers or bus drivers. That was the epitome of Jack's philosophy.


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 11 19:49:19 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:49:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] even Rottweilers are scared of him
Message-ID: <8C9F2DCFE7C62B4-93C-5EF4@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com>



http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1784412007
Sat 10 Nov 2007
?
Rhyme and reason
JAMES RAMPTON 
JEREMY Paxman, the Newsnight frontman who has made his reputation as a presenter so ferocious even Rottweilers are scared of him, has a confession to make. Whisper it in Westminster, but the man who dishes out "Paxo stuffings" to politicians has a secret, tender, artistic side: he adores poetry. 


This 57-year-old journalist and chair of University Challenge is full of surprises. For instance, he laughs as much off screen as he sneers on it. In person, he is far more pussycat than attack dog. And - just as eyebrow-raising - he has an unalloyed passion for poetry. He acknowledges that this revelation might take some people aback. 


"I belong to various heretical minorities," he jokes. "For instance, I rather like students. I know we're not supposed to, but I'm always amazed by how much they know - and, of course, by how much they don't know! I also love poetry; I find it completely compelling and fascinating." 



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 11 19:57:36 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:57:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mackey given Pearce Prize
Message-ID: <8C9F2DE2657DFCD-AA8-7433@mblk-d32.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/text.asp?pid=1728
Nathaniel Mackey named 2007 recipient of UCSD's Roy Harvey Pearce Prize
By Scott Rappaport (831) 459-2495; srapp at ucsc.edu

?

Nathaniel Mackey
?

Literature professor Nathaniel Mackey is the recipient of the 2007 Roy Harvey Pearce/Archive for New Poetry Prize, awarded biennially by the Archive for New Poetry at the University of California, San Diego. 


The Pearce Prize honors an individual who has obtained wide acclaim both as a poet and as a scholar of contemporary American poetics. It is named for Roy Harvey Pearce, founder of UCSD?s Archive for New Poetry, one of the most extensive collections of experimental American writing in the world. The prize was established in 1995 to pay homage to Ralph Waldo Emerson?s concept of the poet-scholar.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From JforJames  Mon Nov 12 09:46:28 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:46:28 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stevenson wins Lannan
Message-ID: <c42.1ec80e8c.3469c144@aol.com>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/books/08arts-POETWINS2000_BRF.html?_r=1&em&
ex=1194670800&en=e7fb252fcbc34b92&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/books/08arts-POETWINS2000_BRF.html?_r=1&em&ex=1194670800&en=e7f
b252fcbc34b92&ei=5087
&oref=slogin) 
Arts, Briefly 
Poet Wins $200,000 

By THE NEW YORK  TIMES
Published: November 8, 2007
 
The American lyric poet Anne Stevenson, 74, who has lived in Britain for  
more than 40 years, was named the winner yesterday of the $200,000 lifetime  
achievement award of the Lannan Foundation of Santa Fe, N.M. Awards of $150,000  
each were made in fiction to A. L. Kennedy of Scotland and Susan Straight of  
Riverside, Calif., and in nonfiction to Mike Davis of San Diego. Writing  
fellowships totaling $550,000 went to Paula Gunn Allen of Fort Bragg, Calif.;  
Daniel Alarc?n of Oakland, Calif.; Edie Meidav of Rhinebeck, N.Y.; Dinaw  Mengestu 
and Jeremy Scahill of Brooklyn and Sinead Morrissey of Belfast,  Northern 
Ireland. The Lannan Literary Awards and Fellowships were established in  1989 to 
honor established and emerging writers of work of exceptional quality.  ... ?
Late Nights on Air,? the third novel by Elizabeth Hay, 56, a former radio  
broadcaster in Canada, won the $43,000 Scotiabank Giller Prize, the most  
lucrative Canadian prize for fiction, Reuters reported. The novel, about loves  and 
rivalries at a small radio station in Yellowknife, in the Northwest  Territories 
of Canada near the Arctic, beat shortlist competition that included  ?
Divisadero,? by Michael Ondaatje.
 
 



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From JforJames  Mon Nov 12 09:49:05 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:49:05 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Fairfield Review Fall Issue
Message-ID: <bd4.1d99aa94.3469c1e1@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/12/2007 12:00:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
fairfieldreview at hpmd.com writes:

            The Fairfield  Review Fall Issue            
Now  Available 
             Selected Links   
____________________________________
  
The Fall 2007 issue 
_Details
_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJfdKRuBg9LXgReXonILa9y8EAlC3BHMesGcUiicGsEgBNsJrmBGtb4wrNJjCzVniLoh_ytpgEKMefTFFi2N66-Tn_3Pz_ga3dfdLhXFkc80WQ==) 
Editors & Authors information 
_Details
_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJePtcaxScJ406z2LkfhZgOUGr_fGN94C0LPl65JDKaxBVlcu4Fza8d5hxcT0g-XA3WJcuB4vJNOal2-7FDQh9QHJFFPO57QT4XNnryOjkSCvuRhdLZcHw
ycoDTg6pqz8DlWxih9xdR6ZmFpKkQ3_mjhjSEVPjjNC4PybPuhXez9eJd_EzzudIEK1rkT5z9I_twN
HSjLUEu3vg==) 
Support the writing arts 
_Details
_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJcbwx6NxfBB07_fjZFEUM2e_coOR7IXJNCM9oXRp5qlPEH2fJUS17etQQz3xHBwZb3_3ubiLDZ-Wt_KQBC32Rr1BpjMPGKy-ohrejx1WJw2vdTF4vYVIT
JhwWXu4RICZecs6MuKXJ169-4y4q3Gsk4MROnnCl0-hBl-8FEWihO9fw==) 

   
Dear  James,  
We are pleased to  announce the publication of The Fairfield Review Fall 2007 
 issue.

This issue features fiction by Robert Kalkreuter and  Jala Pfaff; poems by 
Graham Burchell, Elina Kilevskaya, Susan Landon,  Tom O'Connor, Lynne Potts, 
Aaron M. Rudolph, Tara Grover Smith, Brian  Tapfar, Francine Marie Tolf, Pat 
Wallace, Christian Ward, Kelley Jean  White and Nancy Compton Williams.

The Editor's Choices for this  issue go to go to Lynne Potts for her poem 
"Brown Overcoat," and  Christian Ward for his poem "Marine throwing hand 
grenade." 

The  "classic" poem is "November" by Walter de la Mare.

Please  consider supporting our work at The Fairfield Review by making a tax  
deductible donation. Details are on our web site home page, or click on  the 
link on the left.

Thank you for your continued  support. If you know of someone we should add 
to this mailing list,  please send us an email at the link below.

If you would like to  be removed from this mailing list, please click on the 
Update Profile or  SafeUnsubscribe link below, and accept our sincere apology 
for the email  intrusion. Also, please let us know if you receive a duplicate 
copy of  this announcement. 

Authors seeking to submit their  writing should visit our Editors & Authors 
page from our home  page, or click on the link on the left.      
 

_The Fairfield Review Fall Issue_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJfdKRuBg9LXgReXonILa9y8EAlC3BHMesGcUiicGsEgBNsJrmBGtb4wrNJjCzVniLoh_ytpgEKMefTFFi2N66
-Tn_3Pz_ga3dfdLhXFkc80WQ==)   

        
 
Thank you for your  interest in The Fairfield Review.  
Sincerely, 
Janet & Edward Granger-Happ  
Editors, The Fairfield Review, Inc.
 
____________________________________
email: _fairfieldreview at hpmd.com_ (mailto:fairfieldreview at hpmd.com)  
web: _http://www.fairfieldreview.org_ (http://www.fairfieldreview.org)  


       


-



 



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From JforJames  Mon Nov 12 11:40:04 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:40:04 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] otherwise blog, displays vizpo
Message-ID: <ca8.1cb17147.3469dbe4@aol.com>

From:          Andy Gricevich 
Subject:       otherwise

OTHERWISE. Not the world's least frequently-cultivated blog, but far from  
the most cared-for, or the most succinct. Nonetheless, recent posts exist, and  
include text-art and posts on the Spahr-Young/Ashton debate, Kent Johnson, 
Paul  Chan, Robin Blaser, Lou & Peter Berryman, Jasper Bernes, Jess and  more!

_http://ndgwriting.blogspot.com_ (http://ndgwriting.blogspot.com/) 






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From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 12 17:05:58 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:05:58 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] M.I.A.
Message-ID: <006601c82578$3537c610$d9a83252@ANNY>

Sent by Bill Lavender:

She is Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam, a British born Sri Lankan who writes and performs a very politicized version of hip-hop. She is also a visual artist. Wiki on M.I.A.
Her web site (several songs and videos offered gratis).




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jfq  Mon Nov 12 17:28:47 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:28:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] M.I.A.
In-Reply-To: <006601c82578$3537c610$d9a83252@ANNY>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711121428470.5803@hymn34.u.washington.edu>

I'm always skeptical of "artists" who feel compelled to hyphenate their job descriptions.

Sincerely,

Jason Quackenbush
Poet-Critic-Musician-Photographer-Songwriter-Editor-Composer-Recording Engineer-Sound Designer-Csound Programmer-Publisher-Former Convenience Store Clerk-Make Up Artist-Statistician-Novelist-Guitarist-Quality Assurance Consultant-Record Producer-Painter-CGI Animator-Aesthete-Butcher-Baker-Candlestick Maker-Good Lay-Curmudgeon

(I'm hoping to add carpenter, sculptor, and welder by the end of the year. My new years resolution is to work in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, and Spy)



On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> Sent by Bill Lavender:
>
> She is Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam, a British born Sri Lankan who writes and performs a very politicized version of hip-hop. She is also a visual artist. Wiki on M.I.A.
> Her web site (several songs and videos offered gratis).
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>





From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 12 17:53:12 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:53:12 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] M.I.A.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711121428470.5803@hymn34.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <007501c8257e$cdc313c0$d9a83252@ANNY>

:-)
What incredible qualifications you have. A Baker! That is simply superb!


From: <jfq at myuw.net>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:28 PM


> I'm always skeptical of "artists" who feel compelled to hyphenate their 
> job descriptions.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jason Quackenbush
> Poet-Critic-Musician-Photographer-Songwriter-Editor-Composer-Recording 
> Engineer-Sound Designer-Csound Programmer-Publisher-Former Convenience 
> Store Clerk-Make Up Artist-Statistician-Novelist-Guitarist-Quality 
> Assurance Consultant-Record Producer-Painter-CGI 
> Animator-Aesthete-Butcher-Baker-Candlestick Maker-Good Lay-Curmudgeon
>
> (I'm hoping to add carpenter, sculptor, and welder by the end of the year. 
> My new years resolution is to work in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, and Spy)
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> Sent by Bill Lavender:
>>
>> She is Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam, a British born Sri Lankan who writes 
>> and performs a very politicized version of hip-hop. She is also a visual 
>> artist. Wiki on M.I.A.
>> Her web site (several songs and videos offered gratis).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing 
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 




From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 12 17:54:16 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:54:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: hat by bunn in a new place
Message-ID: <007f01c8257e$f4f3bb20$d9a83252@ANNY>

Forwarding from chuck, a lovely video:


> good news!
> 
> hats by bunn, the documentary, has made it up the google search engine!
> 
> if you google it, you will come to it at this address.
> 
> go check it and please spread the word.
> 
> 
> chuck
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK0Qew7iEys



From grahamd  Tue Nov 13 09:40:56 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:40:56 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
Message-ID: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>

Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:

"I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each  
day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as a  
sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie gains  
his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be referencing  
"Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted Osborne (who  
wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up the thread of an  
ongoing story line; develop it forward one plot-point a day; include  
a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or revelation; and deliver his  
readers safely to a stopping place that still contained an impetus  
toward the next day's strip. And all of this done entertainingly  
(sometimes movingly) and without going stale. Really -- what an  
accomplishment!

When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few  
reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14  
lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been translated  
into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into the terms of  
21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology. Every block-of-a- 
sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its individual infrastructure,  
even as it ultimately contributes toward a larger, ongoing entity  
called a "sonnet sequence." I'm not alone in this. I don't know if  
John Berryman would have nodded toward the comics as an inspiring  
source of structure (and mongrel wordplay) for his "Dream Songs," but  
I think his sonnets have genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as  
meaningfully as with Shakespeare."

--Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and  
Comic Strips."
Full article here:
http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk- 
goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From jeff.newberry  Tue Nov 13 09:59:55 2007
From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:59:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>

David,

I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry.   I've even
blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.

My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those that are
narrative in some sense.  I like how some single-panel cartoons (say *Dennis
the Menace*  or *Marmaduke* or a host of others) imply a long-standing
narrative without depending on said narrative for the cartoon's
effectiveness.

I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class of lyric
poems do the same:  they imply narrative without *depending* on it, if that
makes any sense.

Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.

Best,

Jeff Newberry

On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

>  Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:
>
> "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each day's
> strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as a sonnet's.
> (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie gains his power from
> being in the lamp," he may as well be referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within
> that restricted rhythm, Ted Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches")
> needed to pick up the thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward
> one plot-point a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or
> revelation; and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place that still
> contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And all of this done
> entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without going stale. Really -- what
> an accomplishment!
>
> When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few reviewers
> have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14 lines), it's easy
> to see how Mickey and Minnie have been translated into my friends, and their
> rollicking adventures into the terms of 21st century politics or
> Hawking-esque cosmology. Every block-of-a-sonnet is a panel that hopes to
> have its individual infrastructure, even as it ultimately contributes toward
> a larger, ongoing entity called a "sonnet sequence." I'm not alone in this.
> I don't know if John Berryman would have nodded toward the comics as an
> inspiring source of structure (and mongrel wordplay) for his "Dream Songs,"
> but I think his sonnets have genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as
> meaningfully as with Shakespeare."
>
> --Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and Comic
> Strips."
> Full article here:
>
> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 13 10:14:58 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:14:58 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009d01c82607$f4be7c10$cf3e014f@ANNY>

I find this quite uncanny - unheimlich - sticking to Freud's definition, I just discovered that Saussure was born and died exactly 13 years after Nietzsche:
Nietzsche: 1844-1900
Saussure: 1857-1913
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From grahamd  Tue Nov 13 10:46:43 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:46:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6BE7F5AD-AC79-404F-B657-439EC3080963@ripon.edu>

Yes, if a 4-panel strip is a sonnet, I suppose a single-panel one is  
something even more intense & difficult to make work, a haiku or  
epigram.

Given my current obsessions, the aspect of all this that most  
intrigues me is the *regularity* of such comic strips, playing out  
over long periods of time.  Keeping things fresh, performing  
variations on themes while advancing multiple narrative lines, making  
each strip self-contained while also part of a larger arc, letting  
surprises occur while maintaining a central stylistic identity, etc.-- 
and doing all this day after day, week after week, year after year-- 
these are stiff  challenges.  Those who succeed, like Gary Trudeau,  
have my entire admiration.

Not limited to comic strip artists, of course.  I recall someone  
asking Russell Baker how he managed to write all those columns over  
so many years.  What do you do, the interviewer wanted to know, when  
the deadline's upon you and, well, the column just isn't very good?   
Baker said, in essence, "what I do is publish it!"

I do wonder if Goldbarth pays much attention to current comics.  The  
qualities he praises in Krazy Kat, etc., don't strike me as things of  
the past at all.  There are a number of strips in our Milwaukee paper  
that do just what he describes the old-time strips doing.   
Dunesbury's the most consistently successful, to my eyes, but there  
are others.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 13, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote:

> David,
>
> I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry.    
> I've even blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.
>
> My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those  
> that are narrative in some sense.  I like how some single-panel  
> cartoons (say Dennis the Menace  or Marmaduke or a host of others)  
> imply a long-standing narrative without depending on said narrative  
> for the cartoon's effectiveness.
>
> I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class  
> of lyric poems do the same:  they imply narrative without depending  
> on it, if that makes any sense.
>
> Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:
>
> "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each  
> day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as  
> a sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie  
> gains his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be  
> referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted  
> Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up the  
> thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward one plot-point  
> a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or revelation;  
> and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place that still  
> contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And all of this  
> done entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without going stale.  
> Really -- what an accomplishment!
>
> When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few  
> reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14  
> lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been translated  
> into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into the terms of  
> 21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology. Every block-of-a- 
> sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its individual infrastructure,  
> even as it ultimately contributes toward a larger, ongoing entity  
> called a "sonnet sequence." I'm not alone in this. I don't know if  
> John Berryman would have nodded toward the comics as an inspiring  
> source of structure (and mongrel wordplay) for his "Dream Songs,"  
> but I think his sonnets have genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as  
> meaningfully as with Shakespeare."
>
> --Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and  
> Comic Strips."
> Full article here:
> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk- 
> goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than  
> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From editor  Tue Nov 13 11:37:32 2007
From: editor (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:37:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] EOAGH ISSUE FOUR LAUNCH And READING 11/18
Message-ID: <61009.74.66.79.229.1194971852.squirrel@webmail.web.com>

SUNDAY NOVEMBER 18
5 PM at Unnameable Books

A Poetry Reading Celebrating the Launch of
EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts
Issue 4

Unnameable Books
456 Bergen Street
Brooklyn, NY

FREE

Featuring:
Gilbert Adair
Cara Benson
Joel Chace
James Cook
Alan Davies
Thom Donovan
Joanna Fuhrman
Rebecca Gopoian
Dan Hoy
Sara Marcus
Stephen Paul Miller
Nick Piombino
Tim Peterson
Evelyn Reilly
Edwin Rodriguez
Gregory Vincent St Thomasino
Shelly Taylor
Adam Tobin
Lynn Xu

EOAGH Issue 4
Edited by Tim Peterson

will be available at
http://chax.org/eoagh
prior to this event -- more info soon.

***The editors of Time Out New York have appointed Unnameable Books as one
of NYC's 50 Essential Secrets.***


Posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino




From halvard  Tue Nov 13 12:57:14 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:57:14 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Emergency
Message-ID: <89F05027-911A-4CDB-8218-19FAEA9A8462@earthlink.net>

Sonnet: Emergency

"The emergency is to ensure elections go in an undisturbed manner."
		--Gen. Pervez Musharraf, president of Pakistan

One cup of green tea has no sugar, sodium, or fat, and roughly
one half to one third the caffeine of coffee, emergency teams
responding to terrorist attacks have found. Extraordinary
measures require extraordinary powers, all potentates agree.

This time of year, animals are so busy attending to their young
that they often do not see oncoming humvees. Busy sacking
judges, heldentenors often fail to hit those high notes, bringing
on violent retaliations by clacks in the gallery, above the law

in so many ways. Ousted conductors, kept under house arrest
until they see or hear the errors of their ways, prepare brochures
to recruit militant violists who can be trusted to obey their oaths
of allegiance to the Lahore Philharmonic or whatever gang of

instrumentalists they choose to ally themselves with, under mar-
tial law applying equally to strings, brass, winds, and percussion.




Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From Opus40-01  Tue Nov 13 13:11:52 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:11:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4739E8E8.6050205@opus40.org>

Remember Poetry Comics by Dave Morice? They were good, but I always 
wanted them to be better.


Jeff Newberry wrote:
> David,
>  
> I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry.   I've 
> even blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.
>  
> My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those 
> that are narrative in some sense.  I like how some single-panel 
> cartoons (say _Dennis the Menace_  or _Marmaduke_ or a host of others) 
> imply a long-standing narrative without depending on said narrative 
> for the cartoon's effectiveness.
>  
> I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class of 
> lyric poems do the same:  they imply narrative without /depending/ on 
> it, if that makes any sense.
>  
> Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.
>  
> Best,
>  
> Jeff Newberry
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu 
> <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:
>
>     "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each
>     day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as
>     a sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie
>     gains his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be
>     referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted
>     Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up
>     the thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward one
>     plot-point a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or
>     revelation; and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place
>     that still contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And
>     all of this done entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without
>     going stale. Really -- what an accomplishment!
>      
>     When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few
>     reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14
>     lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been
>     translated into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into
>     the terms of 21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology.
>     Every block-of-a-sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its
>     individual infrastructure, even as it ultimately contributes
>     toward a larger, ongoing entity called a "sonnet sequence." I'm
>     not alone in this. I don't know if John Berryman would have nodded
>     toward the comics as an inspiring source of structure (and mongrel
>     wordplay) for his "Dream Songs," but I think his sonnets have
>     genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as meaningfully as with
>     Shakespeare."
>
>     --Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and
>     Comic Strips."  
>     Full article here:
>     http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines
>
>
>     ========================================
>     David Graham
>     grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
>     Home Page:
>     http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
>     Poetry Library:
>     http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>     ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than 
> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From jforjames  Tue Nov 13 15:42:58 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:42:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
Message-ID: <8C9F44CE8AB4004-1FBC-6925@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com>


http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm

Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'
November 08, 2007: 04:37 PM EST


NEW YORK (Associated Press) - A federal judge has ruled that compiling Dorothy Parker's poems was a far less original act than writing them.


The editor of a book of uncollected work by the late author did not show enough "creativity" to claim copyright infringement from a near-identical set contained in a book released by Penguin Group (USA), U.S. District Judge John F. Keenan said Tuesday, contradicting a decision he made four years ago.


Stuart Y. Silverstein's "Not Much Fun: The Lost Poems of Dorothy Parker" was published in 1996 by Scribner, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. The Penguin book, "Dorothy Parker, Complete Poems," came out in 1999 and includes all the 122 pieces assembled by Silverstein, who was not credited. The poems themselves are in the public domain.


The Penguin Group is owned by London-based media conglomerate Pearson PLC. Simon & Schuster is the publishing arm of CBS Corp.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jfq  Tue Nov 13 16:03:54 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:03:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
In-Reply-To: <8C9F44CE8AB4004-1FBC-6925@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711131303540.3630@hymn12.u.washington.edu>

takes a lot of chutzpah to claim copyright on a sequence of somebody else's poems.


On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:

>
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm
>
> Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem
> Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'
> November 08, 2007: 04:37 PM EST
>
>
> NEW YORK (Associated Press) - A federal judge has ruled that compiling Dorothy Parker's poems was a far less original act than writing them.
>
>
> The editor of a book of uncollected work by the late author did not show enough "creativity" to claim copyright infringement from a near-identical set contained in a book released by Penguin Group (USA), U.S. District Judge John F. Keenan said Tuesday, contradicting a decision he made four years ago.
>
>
> Stuart Y. Silverstein's "Not Much Fun: The Lost Poems of Dorothy Parker" was published in 1996 by Scribner, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. The Penguin book, "Dorothy Parker, Complete Poems," came out in 1999 and includes all the 122 pieces assembled by Silverstein, who was not credited. The poems themselves are in the public domain.
>
>
> The Penguin Group is owned by London-based media conglomerate Pearson PLC. Simon & Schuster is the publishing arm of CBS Corp.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>





From jforjames  Tue Nov 13 20:02:41 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:02:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711131303540.3630@hymn12.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9F471315A61CE-974-F8C@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>


Yes it does...but I was thinking perhaps the evidence in favor of the plaintiff was that there are seminars and classes and lots of shop talk suurrounding the topic of 'building your manuscript', 'making the manuscript work', etc. So perhaps he did 'shape' the best of Dorothy Parker.
Finnegan
- 
Bric-a-Brac
???
?
 Little things that no one needs -- 
Little things to joke about -- 
Little landscapes, done in beads. 
Little morals, woven out, 
Little wreaths of gilded grass, 
Little brigs of whittled oak 
Bottled painfully in glass; 
These are made by lonely folk. 


Lonely folk have lines of days 
Long and faltering and thin; 
Therefore -- little wax bouquets, 
Prayers cut upon a pin, 
Little maps of pinkish lands, 
Little charts of curly seas, 
Little plats of linen strands, 
Little verses, such as these. 



--Dorothy Parker?

?----Original Message-----
From: jfq at myuw.net
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 



takes a lot of chutzpah to claim copyright on a sequence of somebody else's poems.?
?
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
?
>?
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm?
>?
> Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem?
> Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'?
>


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jfq  Tue Nov 13 20:10:47 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:10:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
In-Reply-To: <8C9F471315A61CE-974-F8C@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711131710470.7126@hymn34.u.washington.edu>


Possibly. Although I've always looked with skinny eyes at that breadloaf seminar crap. My glass-half-empty view would be that this ruling just goes to show how useless books and seminars and classes about that kind of thing are.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:

>
> Yes it does...but I was thinking perhaps the evidence in favor of the plaintiff was that there are seminars and classes and lots of shop talk suurrounding the topic of 'building your manuscript', 'making the manuscript work', etc. So perhaps he did 'shape' the best of Dorothy Parker.
> Finnegan
> -
> Bric-a-Brac
> ???
> ?
> Little things that no one needs --
> Little things to joke about --
> Little landscapes, done in beads.
> Little morals, woven out,
> Little wreaths of gilded grass,
> Little brigs of whittled oak
> Bottled painfully in glass;
> These are made by lonely folk.
>
>
> Lonely folk have lines of days
> Long and faltering and thin;
> Therefore -- little wax bouquets,
> Prayers cut upon a pin,
> Little maps of pinkish lands,
> Little charts of curly seas,
> Little plats of linen strands,
> Little verses, such as these.
>
>
>
> --Dorothy Parker?
>
> ?----Original Message-----
> From: jfq at myuw.net
> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
> Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 4:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem
>
>
>
> takes a lot of chutzpah to claim copyright on a sequence of somebody else's poems.?
> ?
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
> ?
>> ?
>> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm?
>> ?
>> Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem?
>> Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'?
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>





From jforjames  Tue Nov 13 20:11:45 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:11:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <4739E8E8.6050205@opus40.org>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4739E8E8.6050205@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9F4727594A2B7-974-1013@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>

Jim Behrle's poetry comix are a wonder.
http://greatestlivingpoet.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html
Of course he's an 'inside job'.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch


Remember Poetry Comics by Dave Morice? They were good, but I always wanted them to be better.?
?
Jeff Newberry wrote:?
> David,?
> > I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry. I've > even blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.?
> > My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those > that are narrative in some sense. I like how some single-panel > cartoons (say _Dennis the Menace_ or _Marmaduke_ or a host of others) > imply a long-standing narrative without depending on said narrative > for the cartoon's effectiveness.?
> > I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class of > lyric poems do the same: they imply narrative without /depending/ on > it, if that makes any sense.?
> > Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.?
> > Best,?
> > Jeff Newberry?
>?
> On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu > <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>> wrote:?
>?
> Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:?
>?
> "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each?
> day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as?
> a sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie?
> gains his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be?
> referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted?
> Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up?
> the thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward one?
> plot-point a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or?
> revelation; and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place?
> that still contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And?
> all of this done entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without?
> going stale. Really -- what an accomplishment!?
> > When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few?
> reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14?
> lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been?
> translated into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into?
> the terms of 21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology.?
> Every block-of-a-sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its?
> individual infrastructure, even as it ultimately contributes?
> toward a larger, ongoing entity called a "sonnet sequence." I'm?
> not alone in this. I don't know if John Berryman would have nodded?
> toward the comics as an inspiring source of structure (and mongrel?
> wordplay) for his "Dream Songs," but I think his sonnets have?
> genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as meaningfully as with?
> Shakespeare."?
>?
> --Albert Goldbarth. fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch: Of Sonnets and?
> Comic Strips." > Full article here:?
> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines?
>?
>?
> ========================================?
> David Graham?
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>?
>?
> Home Page:?
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html?
>?
> Poetry Library:?
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html?
> ==========================================?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."?
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August?
>?
>?
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 14 08:58:58 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:58:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Baraka can't get his day in court
Message-ID: <8C9F4DDA352FC6E-974-25D5@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/13/9.11.poet/


updated 12:05 p.m. EST, Tue November 13, 2007?? 
Supreme Court won't hear appeal over 9/11 poem

Story Highlights
New Jersey poet laureate gave reading in 2002 of controversial poem about 9/11

Poem suggests "Israelis" had advance warning of attacks on World Trade Center

Firing poet Amiri Baraka not allowed, so officials eliminated poet laureate position

Baraka sued; Court of Appeals ruled against him; Supreme Court let that ruling stand



>From Bill Mears
CNN
???? 
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court refused Tuesday to hear an appeal from poet Amiri Baraka, whose controversial poem about the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks led to the elimination of an honorary post he held as New Jersey's poet laureate.


The justices declined without comment to intervene in Baraka's lawsuit against current and former state officials who he says retaliated against him for his public reading of "Somebody Blew Up America."




________________________________________________________________________
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From grahamd  Wed Nov 14 11:06:17 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:06:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] In search of John Ashbery
Message-ID: <F9E87C0C-FEB7-4AAC-8D21-86DF621A3CFA@ripon.edu>

Quite an entertaining and intelligent review of Ashbery's newest  
collection over at Boston Review.  By Forrest Gander.

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR32.4/article_gander.php

"Ashbery?about whom so much has been written that almost anything  
said about his work sounds like quotation?today is an entirely remade  
poet, a different creature altogether from the Ashbery of the three  
big prizes and the MacArthur Fellowship, different from the  
essentially French poet staring wistfully into a convex mirror and  
describing the world as it recedes dizzily back from his head into  
some far vanishing point. The Ashbery of today is as altered from his  
earlier work as the late hardened Yeats from the early bubbling myth- 
flecked Yeats."


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From halvard  Wed Nov 14 11:24:11 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:24:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] In search of John Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <F9E87C0C-FEB7-4AAC-8D21-86DF621A3CFA@ripon.edu>
References: <F9E87C0C-FEB7-4AAC-8D21-86DF621A3CFA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <450014F8-2DC3-4F46-8EC4-9D7C28C69713@earthlink.net>

Delightful, David. Thanks for pointing us to it. And,
most amazingly, he spells Ashbery's name correctly
all the way through. Or maybe it's some competent
editing on the part of BR.

Hal

"Please stand clear of the closing doors."

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Nov 14, 2007, at 10:06 AM, David Graham wrote:

> Quite an entertaining and intelligent review of Ashbery's newest  
> collection over at Boston Review.  By Forrest Gander.
>
> http://www.bostonreview.net/BR32.4/article_gander.php
>
> "Ashbery?about whom so much has been written that almost anything  
> said about his work sounds like quotation?today is an entirely  
> remade poet, a different creature altogether from the Ashbery of the  
> three big prizes and the MacArthur Fellowship, different from the  
> essentially French poet staring wistfully into a convex mirror and  
> describing the world as it recedes dizzily back from his head into  
> some far vanishing point. The Ashbery of today is as altered from  
> his earlier work as the late hardened Yeats from the early bubbling  
> myth-flecked Yeats."
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From opus40-01  Wed Nov 14 12:20:46 2007
From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:20:46 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] New on Tad's Opus 40 Blog: Who New?
Message-ID: <4914.1195060846@opus40.org>

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From rog3r.day  Wed Nov 14 17:04:14 2007
From: rog3r.day (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:04:14 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <C3014D49-3353-462F-ACDA-0BBF78FD984C@earthlink.net>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
	<42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
	<C3014D49-3353-462F-ACDA-0BBF78FD984C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480711141404w204c7314q539c68272dc96157@mail.gmail.com>

then they should be reading this:

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Gitmo-sop.pdf

Happy Reading.

Roger

On Nov 10, 2007 2:52 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> And some of them are here--
>
> http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/default.asp
>
> Hal
>
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
> Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
> those more recently out from a press the name of
> which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
> good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.
>
> Hal
>
>
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:
>
>  Sam Gwynn wrote,
>
>  "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as Turner
> does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous media coverage.
> Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean War poetry, which
> certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those shit-fertilized rice
> fields) to inspire my junior high school teachers (who were of that
> generation) but not the poets."
>
>  There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of the
> Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers University
> Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress, Rolando Hinojosa,
> James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, and Keith Wilson. I don't
> have access to a copy, so I don't know about how directly the poems relate
> to the war, but it might be worth the effort to track down a copy of the
> book.
>
>  Richard W. Wilsnack
>  rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>  _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
Roman Proverb



From jforjames  Wed Nov 14 21:02:35 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:02:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jarman's Epistles
Message-ID: <8C9F542B98BE878-BF0-2E19@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Arts/Books/2007/11/15/A_Poetry_of_Body_and_Soul/
November 15, 2007 
?
A Poetry of Body and Soul
Mark Jarman?s newest collection continues to confound a secular critical world

by Pablo Tanguay 

?

Epistles, By Mark Jarman (Sarabande, 95 pp., $13.95)

Mark Jarman will read from his book Nov. 18 at Davis-Kidd Booksellers, 6 p.m.


Poetry is a search for meaning. Until relatively recently, that has meant a search for God. A distinctly Christian poetics began with the New Testament, notably in the epistles of Paul, and went on to include, among countless others, Donne, Milton, Blake and Hopkins. But by the middle of the 20th century, a century of increasing agnosticism, fewer Western poets mediated their search for meaning through religion. With few exceptions, serious poets stopped writing directly to or about God.



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From editor  Thu Nov 15 10:29:39 2007
From: editor (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:29:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sightings and Hearings: Huth & Hill at the Stain Bar
	Friday Nov. 16
Message-ID: <60701.74.66.79.229.1195140579.squirrel@webmail.web.com>

Sightings and Hearings: Geof Huth & Crag Hill at the Stain Bar, Friday
Nov. 16

Poets Crag Hill and Geof Huth will give a reading entitled "Sightings &
Hearings" at the Stain Bar in Brooklyn, New York, on November 16th.
Combining their interest in visual, sound, and even textual poetry, they
will read and perform, together and apart, a wide range of works. This will
be the first time Hill and Huth have performed together since their
performance in March of this year, so don't miss this east coast appearance.
If a reading isn't enough encouragement, Stain Bar has a great selection of
New-York-only beer and other drinks.


Crag Hill and Geof Huth
Friday, 16 November 2007
6:30 pm
Stain Bar
766 Grand Street
Brooklyn, New York
718/387-7840

To get to Stain Bar, take the L train to Grand and go one block west to 766
Grand Street by the way of Graham Avenue and Humboldt Street.

For those who attend, Crag Hill will offer Nico Vassilakis' Text Loses
Time for
$12.00! Ask him for one.

Bios of the Performers:

Crag Hill has been exploring the world through the prisms of verbal and
visual language since his re-birth in the 1970s. Writer of numerous
chapbooks and/or other print interventions, including Dict (Xexoxial
Endarchy), Another Switch (Norton Coker Press), and Yes James, Yes Joyce
(Loose Gravel Press), he has also once edited two magazines, Score and its
successor Spore. His latest book, co-edited with Bob Grumman, is Writing to
be Seen, the first major anthology of visual poetry in 30 years. He writes
frequently about poetry at his blog, Crg Hill's poetry scorecard .

Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry who has lived on most of
the continents on earth. He writes frequently about visual poetry,
especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics. His chapbooks include
"Analphabet," "The Dreams of the Fishwife," "ghostlight," "Peristyle," "To a
Small Stream of Water (or Ditch)," and "wreadings." Huth edited &2:
an/thology of Pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of one-word poems. His most
recent books are a box of pages entitled water vapour and the chapbook, "Out
 of Character."



posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino

http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/

e?






From jforjames  Thu Nov 15 10:52:28 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:52:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
Message-ID: <8C9F5B6A8F4F103-D10-490@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com>


>From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
--? 

Title: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright? 
Contributor: Bruce Henricksen (Editor) 
Robert Johnson (Editor)? 
Publication Date: February 2008? 
Publisher: Lost Hills Books
?http://www.losthillsbooks.com/
Country of Publication: United States? 
Market: United States? 
ISBN: 0-9798535-1-6? 
ISBN 13: 978-0-9798535-1-7? 
Item Status: Active Record? 
Binding Format: Perfect? 
Pages: 84? 
Price: $14.75(USD) Invoice (Publisher)
?
Synopsis/Annotation: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright brings together elegies written by many of Wright's most important contemporaries, including Robert Bly, Galway Kinnell, W.S. Merwin, and C.K Williams. Interspersed with these are poems by a newer generation of writers inspired by Wright. This unique collection attests to the continuing stature of James Wright on the American literary landscape.
?
?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From grahamd  Thu Nov 15 11:27:26 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:27:26 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <8C9F5B6A8F4F103-D10-490@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9F5B6A8F4F103-D10-490@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <A65DD9AD-BB16-4213-87E5-076208FEADE9@ripon.edu>

I do wonder about James Wright's "continuing stature."  Are there  
really a lot of twenty-something poets eagerly lapping up his work as  
poets of my generation did 30 years back?

Interesting discussion on Robert Peake's blog, between him & Joe  
Duemer, about James Wright's work & in particular whether it's  
crippled by sentimentality.

I've had an experience similar to Joe D's--having love love loved  
Wright's work when I was starting out, I came to find him harder to  
read as I got older.  Reading over his collected poems with a student  
a few years back as part of an independent study project, I was  
surprised how many poems I found unreadably weak.  Ultimately, I  
think a lot of his poems have not aged well at all, though I still  
have great fondness for many of them.  And he's got his share of good  
ones lodged where they'll be hard to get rid of, of course.  Just not  
as many as I'd once thought.

Here's their blog discussion--

http://www.robertpeake.com/archives/358-James-Wright,-On-Having-My- 
Pocket-Picked-In-Rome.html

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 15, 2007, at 9:52 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote:

> From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
> -- 
> Title: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
> Contributor: Bruce Henricksen (Editor)
> Robert Johnson (Editor)
> Publication Date: February 2008
> Publisher: Lost Hills Books
>  http://www.losthillsbooks.com/
> Country of Publication: United States
> Market: United States
> ISBN: 0-9798535-1-6
> ISBN 13: 978-0-9798535-1-7
> Item Status: Active Record
> Binding Format: Perfect
> Pages: 84
> Price: $14.75(USD) Invoice (Publisher)
>
> Synopsis/Annotation: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James  
> Wright brings together elegies written by many of Wright's most  
> important contemporaries, including Robert Bly, Galway Kinnell,  
> W.S. Merwin, and C.K Williams. Interspersed with these are poems by  
> a newer generation of writers inspired by Wright. This unique  
> collection attests to the continuing stature of James Wright on the  
> American literary landscape.
>
>
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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Nov 15 11:42:42 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:42:42 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
Message-ID: <ced.200a0165.346dd102@cs.com>

I still love this one.

A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
        

    
Near the dry river's water-mark we found
Your brother Minnegan,
Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
Told me to find you, even if the rain,
And tell you he was drowned.

I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
The wreck of someone's Ford:
I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
You told me once the waking up was hard,
The daylight beating at you like a board.
Blood in my stomach sank.

Beside, you told him never to go out
Along the river-side
Drinking and singing, clattering about.
You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
And pitch down on his side.

Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
For coming up this far,
Leaving the note, and running as I came.
I'll go and tell my father where you are.
You'd better go find Minnegan before
Policemen hear and come.

Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
You old son of a bitch.
You better hurry down to Minnegan;
He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
The poor old man.   

    
   
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From grahamd  Thu Nov 15 11:48:20 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:48:20 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <ced.200a0165.346dd102@cs.com>
References: <ced.200a0165.346dd102@cs.com>
Message-ID: <CDFC1356-B590-4E7A-A5C0-EB4FFF03E133@ripon.edu>

I still love a lot of Wright.

Here's my favorite.

As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient  
Chinese Governor


      And how can I, born in evil days
      And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?

             -- Written A.D. 819


Po Chu-i, balding old politician,
What's the use?
I think of you,
Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,
When you were being towed up the rapids
Toward some political job or other
In the city of Chungshou.
You made it, I guess,
By dark.

But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,
And the tall rocks of Minneapolis
Build me my own black twilight
Of bamboo ropes and waters.
Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?
Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness
Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing
But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.
Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?
Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope
For a thousand years?

--James Wright



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> I still love this one.
>
> A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
>
>
>
> Near the dry river's water-mark we found
> Your brother Minnegan,
> Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
> Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
> Told me to find you, even if the rain,
> And tell you he was drowned.
>
> I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
> The wreck of someone's Ford:
> I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
> You told me once the waking up was hard,
> The daylight beating at you like a board.
> Blood in my stomach sank.
>
> Beside, you told him never to go out
> Along the river-side
> Drinking and singing, clattering about.
> You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
> I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
> And pitch down on his side.
>
> Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
> For coming up this far,
> Leaving the note, and running as I came.
> I'll go and tell my father where you are.
> You'd better go find Minnegan before
> Policemen hear and come.
>
> Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
> You old son of a bitch.
> You better hurry down to Minnegan;
> He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
> Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
> The poor old man.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From skip  Thu Nov 15 12:01:33 2007
From: skip (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:01:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <CDFC1356-B590-4E7A-A5C0-EB4FFF03E133@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

I guess I've always realized how important Pound's translations in _Cathay_
were to a number of Wright's poems. This poem was an obvious case in point.
And I don't just say this because of the last line (compare to "And send it
a thousand miles, thinking . . ." -last line from "The Exile's Letter") but
because of the phrasing throughout.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:48 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright

 

I still love a lot of Wright.  

 

Here's my favorite.

 

As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient Chinese
Governor

 

     And how can I, born in evil days

     And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?

 

            -- Written A.D. 819

 

 

Po Chu-i, balding old politician,

What's the use?

I think of you,

Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,

When you were being towed up the rapids

Toward some political job or other

In the city of Chungshou.

You made it, I guess,

By dark.

 

But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,

And the tall rocks of Minneapolis

Build me my own black twilight

Of bamboo ropes and waters.

Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?

Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness

Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing

But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.

Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?

Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope

For a thousand years?

 

--James Wright

 

 

 

========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu

 

Home Page:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

 

Poetry Library:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html

==========================================

 





 

On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:





I still love this one.

A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack



Near the dry river's water-mark we found
Your brother Minnegan,
Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
Told me to find you, even if the rain,
And tell you he was drowned.

I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
The wreck of someone's Ford:
I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
You told me once the waking up was hard,
The daylight beating at you like a board.
Blood in my stomach sank.

Beside, you told him never to go out
Along the river-side
Drinking and singing, clattering about.
You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
And pitch down on his side.

Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
For coming up this far,
Leaving the note, and running as I came.
I'll go and tell my father where you are.
You'd better go find Minnegan before
Policemen hear and come.

Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
You old son of a bitch.
You better hurry down to Minnegan;
He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
The poor old man. 



_______________________________________________

New-Poetry mailing list

New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

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From grahamd  Thu Nov 15 12:21:26 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:21:26 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>

You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think  
he read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem  
below quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi,  
I believe).


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Skip Fox wrote:

> I guess I?ve always realized how important Pound?s translations in  
> _Cathay_ were to a number of Wright?s poems. This poem was an  
> obvious case in point. And I don?t just say this because of the  
> last line (compare to ?And send it a thousand miles,  
> thinking . . .? ?last line from ?The Exile?s Letter?) but because  
> of the phrasing throughout.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- 
> bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:48 AM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of  
> James Wright
>
>
> I still love a lot of Wright.
>
>
> Here's my favorite.
>
>
> As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient  
> Chinese Governor
>
>
>      And how can I, born in evil days
>
>      And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?
>
>
>             -- Written A.D. 819
>
>
>
> Po Chu-i, balding old politician,
>
> What's the use?
>
> I think of you,
>
> Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,
>
> When you were being towed up the rapids
>
> Toward some political job or other
>
> In the city of Chungshou.
>
> You made it, I guess,
>
> By dark.
>
>
> But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,
>
> And the tall rocks of Minneapolis
>
> Build me my own black twilight
>
> Of bamboo ropes and waters.
>
> Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?
>
> Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness
>
> Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing
>
> But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.
>
> Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?
>
> Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope
>
> For a thousand years?
>
>
> --James Wright
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
>
> David Graham
>
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>
> Home Page:
>
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
>
> Poetry Library:
>
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I still love this one.
>
> A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
>
>
>
> Near the dry river's water-mark we found
> Your brother Minnegan,
> Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
> Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
> Told me to find you, even if the rain,
> And tell you he was drowned.
>
> I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
> The wreck of someone's Ford:
> I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
> You told me once the waking up was hard,
> The daylight beating at you like a board.
> Blood in my stomach sank.
>
> Beside, you told him never to go out
> Along the river-side
> Drinking and singing, clattering about.
> You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
> I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
> And pitch down on his side.
>
> Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
> For coming up this far,
> Leaving the note, and running as I came.
> I'll go and tell my father where you are.
> You'd better go find Minnegan before
> Policemen hear and come.
>
> Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
> You old son of a bitch.
> You better hurry down to Minnegan;
> He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
> Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
> The poor old man.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> New-Poetry mailing list
>
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From AlMaginnes  Thu Nov 15 12:27:36 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:27:36 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
Message-ID: <c8c.1834e28d.346ddb88@aol.com>

I still love and read a lot of Wright. Like any collected poems ABOVE THE  
RIVER contains a lot of weak writing and like a lot of poets, Wright found it  
increasingly easy to publish weak poems and weak books as his career advanced. 
 
The post by one of the blog discussion participants blaming Wright for his  
lack of development as a poet is, to use a scholarly phrase, "bullshit." 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From halvard  Thu Nov 15 12:28:59 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:28:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <E8605C13-0A0E-4162-B333-BC2BB81F7DBB@earthlink.net>

As a recall from a conversation with Wright (back a ways),
Robert Payne's collection of Chinese poetry called *The White
Pony* was quite important to him.

Hal

"Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
			--Anselm Hollo

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:21 AM, David Graham wrote:

> You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think  
> he read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the  
> poem below quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai  
> Ju-Yi, I believe).
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Skip Fox wrote:
>
>> I guess I?ve always realized how important Pound?s translations in  
>> _Cathay_ were to a number of Wright?s poems. This poem was an  
>> obvious case in point. And I don?t just say this because of the  
>> last line (compare to ?And send it a thousand miles,  
>> thinking . . .? ?last line from ?The Exile?s Letter?) but because  
>> of the phrasing throughout.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>> ] On Behalf Of David Graham
>> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:48 AM
>> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of  
>> James Wright
>>
>>
>> I still love a lot of Wright.
>>
>>
>> Here's my favorite.
>>
>>
>> As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient  
>> Chinese Governor
>>
>>
>>      And how can I, born in evil days
>>
>>      And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?
>>
>>
>>             -- Written A.D. 819
>>
>>
>>
>> Po Chu-i, balding old politician,
>>
>> What's the use?
>>
>> I think of you,
>>
>> Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,
>>
>> When you were being towed up the rapids
>>
>> Toward some political job or other
>>
>> In the city of Chungshou.
>>
>> You made it, I guess,
>>
>> By dark.
>>
>>
>> But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,
>>
>> And the tall rocks of Minneapolis
>>
>> Build me my own black twilight
>>
>> Of bamboo ropes and waters.
>>
>> Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?
>>
>> Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness
>>
>> Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing
>>
>> But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.
>>
>> Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?
>>
>> Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope
>>
>> For a thousand years?
>>
>>
>> --James Wright
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================================
>>
>> David Graham
>>
>> grahamd at ripon.edu
>>
>>
>> Home Page:
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>>
>>
>> Poetry Library:
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>>
>> ==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I still love this one.
>>
>> A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
>>
>>
>>
>> Near the dry river's water-mark we found
>> Your brother Minnegan,
>> Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
>> Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
>> Told me to find you, even if the rain,
>> And tell you he was drowned.
>>
>> I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
>> The wreck of someone's Ford:
>> I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
>> You told me once the waking up was hard,
>> The daylight beating at you like a board.
>> Blood in my stomach sank.
>>
>> Beside, you told him never to go out
>> Along the river-side
>> Drinking and singing, clattering about.
>> You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
>> I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
>> And pitch down on his side.
>>
>> Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
>> For coming up this far,
>> Leaving the note, and running as I came.
>> I'll go and tell my father where you are.
>> You'd better go find Minnegan before
>> Policemen hear and come.
>>
>> Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
>> You old son of a bitch.
>> You better hurry down to Minnegan;
>> He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
>> Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
>> The poor old man.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From barry.spacks  Thu Nov 15 13:41:50 2007
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:41:50 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: James Wright
In-Reply-To: <200711151615.lAFGFg5F000936@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711151615.lAFGFg5F000936@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <FF7494B8-3A0D-402C-B92B-A707E1BEC86E@verizon.net>


On Nov 15, 2007, at 8:15 AM, David Graham wrote:

> Ultimately, I  think a lot of his poems have not aged well at all,  
> though I still
> have great fondness for many of them.

Same experience here, David. Perilous to re-visit many old enthusiasms.

My effort of a few years back to register my debt to Wright:

              THE CATCH
in memory of James Wright

His words make the heart shiver
as when dawn
invades the darkness, or dusk
the light.

He could sense, in a turtle
?  neck-stretched, hopeful ?
all the sadness
and hunger of life.

Say he was out there
seeing it
a long time coming,
his going...

his insouciance
beautiful to watch ?
easy glance over shoulder
moving toward the wall,

toward the miraculous
catch
in the pounded leather glove
in far left field.
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From rudenoon  Thu Nov 15 16:46:20 2007
From: rudenoon (Jim Gourley)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:46:20 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi
In-Reply-To: <ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>

Indeed, David, it's Bai Juyi in pinyin, the Romanized system that was
introduced a half-century ago. The earlier Romanized system was the
Wade-Giles which would have represented Bai Juyi as Pai Chui (umlaut over
the 'u'). For those interested in having a look at some interesting sites
that have rollover definitions of individual characters, which are helpful
in seeing how truly awful some of the available translations are, have a
look at http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/ a wonderful French site with the
Chinese Classics written in traditional characters with the rollover defs in
Enlgish. The translations are in both French and English. The translations
of the classic 300 Tang Poems in which the Bai Juyi appears are by Witter
Bynner. I am not a fan. 

 

Another site is http://www.chinese-poems.com/. The format is different. Each
poem is presented in quarters, upper left, the characters; upper right,
pinyin with tonal markings; the bottom left, the word-for-character
translation; and the lower right, the translations, which, for the most
part, are 'not good'.

 

Of the two, the French site is by far the most informative. And fun.

 

--Jim Gourley, a lurker

 

________

http://www.rudenoon.com <http://www.rudenoon.com/> 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudenoon

 

 

 

  _____  

From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:21 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright

 

You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think he read
about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem below quotes
the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi, I believe).

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From Sigauke  Thu Nov 15 16:52:05 2007
From: Sigauke (Sigauke, Emmanuel )
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:52:05 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi
In-Reply-To: <000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
	<000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>
Message-ID: <620DA07902572640894EC472FDA2C050873E07@CRC-EXCH01.crc.ad.losrios.edu>

View the evolving Munyori Poetry Journal at www.munyori.com
 

________________________________

From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Gourley
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:46 PM
To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views'
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi



Indeed, David, it's Bai Juyi in pinyin, the Romanized system that was
introduced a half-century ago. The earlier Romanized system was the
Wade-Giles which would have represented Bai Juyi as Pai Chui (umlaut
over the 'u'). For those interested in having a look at some interesting
sites that have rollover definitions of individual characters, which are
helpful in seeing how truly awful some of the available translations
are, have a look at http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/ a wonderful French
site with the Chinese Classics written in traditional characters with
the rollover defs in Enlgish. The translations are in both French and
English. The translations of the classic 300 Tang Poems in which the Bai
Juyi appears are by Witter Bynner. I am not a fan. 

 

Another site is http://www.chinese-poems.com/. The format is different.
Each poem is presented in quarters, upper left, the characters; upper
right, pinyin with tonal markings; the bottom left, the
word-for-character translation; and the lower right, the translations,
which, for the most part, are 'not good'.

 

Of the two, the French site is by far the most informative. And fun.

 

--Jim Gourley, a lurker

 

________

http://www.rudenoon.com <http://www.rudenoon.com/> 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudenoon

 

 

 

________________________________

From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:21 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James
Wright

 

You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think he
read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem below
quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi, I
believe).

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From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 16 10:00:28 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:00:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu><000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>
	<620DA07902572640894EC472FDA2C050873E07@CRC-EXCH01.crc.ad.losrios.edu>
Message-ID: <005c01c82861$6def57c0$bcae3452@ANNY>

Here's hula hula Tad OldMole:
http://www.munyori.com/m_to_z_poets
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sigauke, Emmanuel 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:52 PM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi


  View the evolving Munyori Poetry Journal at www.munyori.com




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Gourley
  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:46 PM
  To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views'
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi


  Indeed, David, it's Bai Juyi in pinyin, the Romanized system that was introduced a half-century ago. The earlier Romanized system was the Wade-Giles which would have represented Bai Juyi as Pai Chui (umlaut over the 'u'). For those interested in having a look at some interesting sites that have rollover definitions of individual characters, which are helpful in seeing how truly awful some of the available translations are, have a look at http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/ a wonderful French site with the Chinese Classics written in traditional characters with the rollover defs in Enlgish. The translations are in both French and English. The translations of the classic 300 Tang Poems in which the Bai Juyi appears are by Witter Bynner. I am not a fan. 

   

  Another site is http://www.chinese-poems.com/. The format is different. Each poem is presented in quarters, upper left, the characters; upper right, pinyin with tonal markings; the bottom left, the word-for-character translation; and the lower right, the translations, which, for the most part, are 'not good'.

   

  Of the two, the French site is by far the most informative. And fun.

   

  --Jim Gourley, a lurker

   

  ________

  http://www.rudenoon.com

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudenoon

   

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
  Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:21 AM
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
  Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright

   

  You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think he read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem below quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi, I believe).



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 16 13:39:17 2007
From: anny.ballardini (anny.ballardini at tin.it)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:39:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: The Well-Shaped Phrase as Art
Message-ID: <200711161839.lAGIdH5E008164@wiz.cath.vt.edu>

This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it.

ARTS / ART & DESIGN | November 16, 2007
Art Review | Lawrence Weiner: The Well-Shaped Phrase as Art
By ROBERTA SMITH
Lawrence Weiner's mind-stretching 40-year retrospective at the Whitney Museum should be required viewing for anyone interested in today's art.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/arts/design/16wein.html?ex=1195880400&en=a9a39caebea5afa4&ei=5070&emc=eta1




----------------------------------------------------------

ABOUT THIS E-MAIL
This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service.  For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com.

NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
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From amyhappens  Sat Nov 17 09:08:10 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


 BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
 
 
 
 http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
 
 
 
       
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.  Make Yahoo! your homepage.
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From cervantes.james  Sat Nov 17 10:30:19 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:30:19 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Cultur
In-Reply-To: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>

So, how does one define "bourgeois art"?  Art created for public
consumption?  I'm genuinely curious about what folks consider the
hallmarks of "bourgeois art."

- Jim

On 11/17/07, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>
>
>
> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



From halvard  Sat Nov 17 11:20:55 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:20:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Cultur
In-Reply-To: <648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D39EF847-FF6E-4BE9-9198-B6165C7326E0@earthlink.net>

Hallmark says it all.

Hal

"Never eat anything larger than your head."
			--B. Kliban

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 17, 2007, at 9:30 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> So, how does one define "bourgeois art"?  Art created for public
> consumption?  I'm genuinely curious about what folks consider the
> hallmarks of "bourgeois art."
>
> - Jim
>
> On 11/17/07, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>>
>>
>>
>> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your  
>> homepage.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From cervantes.james  Sat Nov 17 11:34:40 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:34:40 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Cultur
In-Reply-To: <D39EF847-FF6E-4BE9-9198-B6165C7326E0@earthlink.net>
References: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>
	<D39EF847-FF6E-4BE9-9198-B6165C7326E0@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60711170834n1d5a1748l2e6d076a12d7b1aa@mail.gmail.com>

Phew.  Thanks, Hal.  I was about to scour my work for bourgeois
elements and excise what B.E.s I found. ;-)

Have a nice day.

- Jim

On 11/17/07, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hallmark says it all.
>
> Hal
>
> "Never eat anything larger than your head."
>                         --B. Kliban
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2007, at 9:30 AM, James Cervantes wrote:
>
> > So, how does one define "bourgeois art"?  Art created for public
> > consumption?  I'm genuinely curious about what folks consider the
> > hallmarks of "bourgeois art."
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> > On 11/17/07, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your
> >> homepage.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


--



From jorgensen_a  Sat Nov 17 11:57:03 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:57:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry-in-nature-photogaphy-of-pradip
Message-ID: <490958.6155.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

 http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007/11/poetry-in-nature-photogaphy-of-pradip.html

I would like to introduce you to Pradip Datta, a wonderful artist from Kolkata. You should be reading lots more of him, seeing more of his work, in the coming months and year.

Alex


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 17 12:38:51 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:38:51 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry-in-nature-photogaphy-of-pradip
References: <490958.6155.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006401c82940$b7d9d010$54a93452@ANNY>

Very interesting.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alexander Jorgensen 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 5:57 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry-in-nature-photogaphy-of-pradip


  http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007/11/poetry-in-nature-photogaphy-of-pradip.html

  I would like to introduce you to Pradip Datta, a wonderful artist from Kolkata. You should be reading lots more of him, seeing more of his work, in the coming months and year.

  Alex


  --
  Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames  Sat Nov 17 14:39:32 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:39:32 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine's Eightieth
Message-ID: <d41.19268503.34709d74@aol.com>

Subj: Philip Levine 80th Birthday Tribute  
Date: 11/16/2007  4:49:51 PM Eastern Standard Time 
From: _knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com_ 
(mailto:knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com)   
Reply-to: _knopfpoetry-ctg0aeb72aacuepafhndtrdt4edtagaq at info.randomhouse.com_ 
(mailto:knopfpoetry-ctg0aeb72aacuepafhndtrdt4edtagaq at info.randomhouse.com)   
To: _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com)  
Sent from  the Internet (Details) 

Dear Poetry Lovers,
 
If you're in New York City on Thursday, November 28th, 2007, don't miss a  
special 80th birthday tribute and reading featuring Philip Levine with Kate  
Daniels, E.L. Doctorow, Edward Hirsch, Galway Kinnell, Yusuf Komunyakaa, Malena  
M?rling, Sharon Olds, Tom Sleigh, Gerald Stern, Jean Valentine and Charles  
Wright. 
 
Philip Levine was born in Detroit and is the author of 16 collections of  
poetry, most recently Breath. His other books include The Simple Truth, which  
won the Pulitzer Prize; What Work Is, which won the National Book Award; The  
Names of the Lost; Ashes: Poems New and Old and 7 Years From Somewhere, both of  
which won the National Book Critics Circle Award. He is the distinguished  
Poet-in-Residence in the Creative Writing Program at NYU. 
 
Co-sponsored with the 92nd Street Y Unterberg Poetry Center, the Academy of  
American Poets, Cave Canem Foundation, Cooper Union, Knopf, Poets House, 
Society  of America and Poets & Writers. 
 
Hope to see you there! 
 
Philip Levine 80th Birthday Tribute
Thursday, November 29th,  7:00pm
Great Hall, Cooper Union, East 7th Street
Free and Open to the  Public
_http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/levine_tribute/_ 
(http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/levine_tribute/)  
 
 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From JforJames  Sat Nov 17 14:42:20 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:42:20 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Hass wins National Book Award
Message-ID: <bf6.23cd1a28.34709e1c@aol.com>

_http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/11/16/MN1FTD9P3.DTL_
 
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/11/16/MN1FTD9P3.DTL) 
 
Berkeley poet Robert Hass wins National Book Award
Joshua Kosman,  Chronicle Music Critic
 
Friday, November 16, 2007
 

Berkeley poet Robert Hass won the National Book Award on  Wednesday night for 
his recent collection, "Time and Materials." The $10,000  prize was presented 
at a ceremony at a Manhattan hotel.
 
Hass, 66, served two years as the U.S. poet laureate and has taught at UC  
Berkeley since 1989. The prize, given annually since 1950 by the National Book  
Foundation, is the latest in a series of honors for Hass that includes a 1984  
MacArthur Fellowship and two National Book Critics Circle  Awards.





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From grahamd  Sat Nov 17 14:45:43 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:45:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Levine's Eightieth
In-Reply-To: <d41.19268503.34709d74@aol.com>
References: <d41.19268503.34709d74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D2BB1A94-86BC-42A7-B57C-1D7A8C4AFCF6@ripon.edu>

I still have a hard time thinking of Levine as an old, old man, but  
the photo up at the Knopf page is pretty convincing on that score!

Just been re-reading *Breath* during the past week, and I think it's  
one of his better efforts of his senior years. . . .

Gospel

The new grass rising in the hills,
the cows loitering in the morning chill,
a dozen or more old browns hidden
in the shadows of the cottonwoods
beside the streambed. I go higher
to where the road gives up and there's
only a faint path strewn with lupine
between the mountain oaks. I don't
ask myself what I'm looking for.
I didn't come for answers
to a place like this, I came to walk
on the earth, still cold, still silent.
Still ungiving, I've said to myself,
although it greets me with last year's
dead thistles and this year's
hard spines, early blooming
wild onions, the curling remains
of spider's cloth. What did I bring
to the dance? In my back pocket
a crushed letter from a woman
I've never met bearing bad news
I can do nothing about. So I wander
these woods half sightless while
a west wind picks up in the trees
clustered above. The pines make
a music like no other, rising and
falling like a distant surf at night
that calms the darkness before
first light. "Soughing" we call it, from
Old English, no less. How weightless
words are when nothing will do.

-- Philip Levine .  Breath.  Knopf, 2004.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 17, 2007, at 1:39 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> Subj: Philip Levine 80th Birthday Tribute
> Date: 11/16/2007 4:49:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com
> Reply-to: knopfpoetry- 
> ctg0aeb72aacuepafhndtrdt4edtagaq at info.randomhouse.com
> To: JforJames at aol.com
> Sent from the Internet (Details)
>
> Dear Poetry Lovers,
>
> If you're in New York City on Thursday, November 28th, 2007, don't  
> miss a special 80th birthday tribute and reading featuring Philip  
> Levine with Kate Daniels, E.L. Doctorow, Edward Hirsch, Galway  
> Kinnell, Yusuf Komunyakaa, Malena M?rling, Sharon Olds, Tom Sleigh,  
> Gerald Stern, Jean Valentine and Charles Wright.
>
> Philip Levine was born in Detroit and is the author of 16  
> collections of poetry, most recently Breath. His other books  
> include The Simple Truth, which won the Pulitzer Prize; What Work  
> Is, which won the National Book Award; The Names of the Lost;  
> Ashes: Poems New and Old and 7 Years From Somewhere, both of which  
> won the National Book Critics Circle Award. He is the distinguished  
> Poet-in-Residence in the Creative Writing Program at NYU.
>
> Co-sponsored with the 92nd Street Y Unterberg Poetry Center, the  
> Academy of American Poets, Cave Canem Foundation, Cooper Union,  
> Knopf, Poets House, Society of America and Poets & Writers.
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> Philip Levine 80th Birthday Tribute
> Thursday, November 29th, 7:00pm
> Great Hall, Cooper Union, East 7th Street
> Free and Open to the Public
> http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/levine_tribute/
>
>
>
>
>
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 17 15:12:05 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:12:05 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re.: Levine
Message-ID: <00a901c82956$1ff538f0$54a93452@ANNY>

Here is some cold earth, pics I just pulled up on my blog.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Anny Ballardini 
To: anny.ballardini at tin.it 
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 8:42 PM
Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 11/17/2007 08:40:00 PM













--
Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 11/17/2007 08:40:00 PM
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From JforJames  Sat Nov 17 15:29:10 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:29:10 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barzun article
Message-ID: <d21.17615701.3470a916@aol.com>

_http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/22/071022fa_fact_krystal?printable
=true_ 
(http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/22/071022fa_fact_krystal?printable=true) 
 
JP, thought you might be interested in this piece about the historian and  
thinker
Jacques Barzun.
Love,
Dad



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From JforJames  Sat Nov 17 15:37:10 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:37:10 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Barzun article
Message-ID: <d50.1867dbb3.3470aaf6@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/17/2007 3:30:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

_http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/22/071022fa_fact_krystal?printable
=true_ 
(http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/22/071022fa_fact_krystal?printable=true) 
 
JP, thought you might be interested in this piece about the historian and  
thinker
Jacques Barzun.
Love,
Dad



Of course, I made a mistake with this email...but I love you all on  
NewPoetry too.
Finnegan



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From JforJames  Sat Nov 17 18:16:59 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:16:59 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] pantoum (program is not a repeat)
Message-ID: <c91.1b47e5c2.3470d06b@aol.com>

_http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/_ (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/) 
 
The Pantoum is a verse form that derived from the traditional Malaysian  
improvised poem the Pantun. Imported into the west by the 19th century French  
poet Ernest Fouinet, the Pantoum is based on four-line stanzas where the second  
and fourth line of the preceding stanza become the first and third line of the 
 next.
 



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From JforJames  Sat Nov 17 19:13:59 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:13:59 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: James Wright
Message-ID: <ce4.214fd0e7.3470ddc7@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/15/2007 1:42:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
barry.spacks at verizon.net writes:



On Nov 15, 2007, at 8:15 AM, David Graham wrote:


Ultimately, I  think a lot of his poems have not aged  well at all, though I 
still  
have great fondness for many of them.  



Same experience here, David. Perilous to re-visit many old  enthusiasms.



I think someone needs to the write an essay called the "The Other Wright"  
There were at least two Wrights. And if poems like "A Blessing" seem too  
sentimental to us, I think it's worth remembering that The 60's was more  open-faced 
period for many people. Here's a poem that to me has great depth and  
breadth, some history and a lush emotional landscape, and the right amount of  
sentiment...
 
Two Poems about President Harding
 
One: His Death
 
In Marion, the honey locust trees are falling.
Everybody in town  remembers the white hair,
The campaign of a lost summer, the front  porch
Open to the public, and the vaguely stunned smile
Of a lucky  man.
 
?Neighbor, I want to be helpful,? he said once.
Later, ?You think I?m  honest, don?t you??
Weeping drunk.
 
I am drunk this evening in 1961,
In a jag for my countryman,
Who died  of crab meat on the way back from Alaska.
Everyone knows that joke.
How  many honey locusts have fallen,
Pitched rootlong into the open graves of  strip mines,
Since the First World War ended
And Wilson the gaunt deacon  jogged sullenly
Into silence?
Tonight,
The cancerous ghosts of old con  men
Shed their leaves
For a proud man,
Lost between the turnpike near  Cleveland
And the chiropractors? signs looming among dead 
mulberry  trees,
There is no place left to go
But home.
 
?Warren lacks mentality,? one of his friends said.
 
Yet he was beautiful, he was the snowfall
Turned to white stallions  standing still
Under dark elm trees.
 
He died in public. He claimed the secret right
To be ashamed.
 

Two: His Tomb in Ohio
??he died of a busted  gut.?
--Mencken, on Bryan
 
A hundred slag piles north of us,
At the mercy of the moon and  rain,
He lies in his ridiculous
Tomb, our fellow citizen.
No, I have  never seen the place,
Where many shadows of faceless thieves
Chuckle and  stumble and embrace
On beer cans, stogie butts, and graves.
 
One holiday, one rainy week
After the country fell apart,
Hoover and  Coolidge came to speak
And snivel about his broken heart.
His grave, a  huge absurdity,
Embarrassed cops and visitors.
Hoover and Coolidge crept  away
By night, and women closed their doors.
 
Now junkmen call their children in
Before they catch their death of  cold;
Young lovers let the moon begin
Its quick spring, and the day grows  old;
The mean one-legger who rakes up leaves
Has chased the loafers out of  the park;
Minnegan Leonard half-believes
In God, and the poolroom goes  dark.
 
America goes on, goes on
Laughing, and Harding was a fool.
Even his  big pretentious stone
Lays him bare to ridicule.
I know it. But don?t look  at me.
By God,  I didn?t start this mess.
Whatever moon and rain may  be,
The hearts of men are merciless.
 

--James Wright, _The Branch Will Not Break_

--
Finnegan



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From jfq  Sun Nov 18 00:25:43 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:25:43 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <473FCCD7.2060505@myuw.net>

It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a 
couple of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no 
one was going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most 
important press and journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's 
good that people are reading it.

The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the 
right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a 
sort of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to 
do it. That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about 
going that route rather than trying to find a more traditional 
publisher, but at the same time, I like the fact that there's a link 
between this sort of thing and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were 
so important to the poets I take to be my aesthetic forebears in the 
sixties and seventies.

amy king wrote:
>
> *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>
> *
>
> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your 
> homepage. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From anny.ballardini  Sun Nov 18 03:44:02 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:44:02 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] the destination
Message-ID: <004101c829bf$2bb3b8b0$85c93a52@ANNY>

from the Writer's Almanac
Poem: "Ticket" by Charles O. Hartman, from Island. ? Ahsahta Press, 2004. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) 

Ticket 

I love the moment at the ticket window-he says-
when you are to say the name of your destination, and realize
that you could say anything, the man at the counter
will believe you, the woman at the counter
would never say No, that isn't where you're going,
you could buy a ticket for one place and go to another,
less far along the same line. Suddenly you would find yourself
-he says-in a locality you've never seen before,
where no one has ever seen you and you could say your name
was anything you like, nobody would say No,
that isn't you, this is who you are. It thrills me every time.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From amyhappens  Sun Nov 18 10:54:04 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:54:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <473FCCD7.2060505@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <314433.99433.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Whitman did it most of his life -- look where it got his work ...

Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net> wrote: It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a 
couple of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no 
one was going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most 
important press and journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's 
good that people are reading it.

The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the 
right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a 
sort of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to 
do it. That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about 
going that route rather than trying to find a more traditional 
publisher, but at the same time, I like the fact that there's a link 
between this sort of thing and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were 
so important to the poets I take to be my aesthetic forebears in the 
sixties and seventies.

amy king wrote:
>
> *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>
> *
>
> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your 
> homepage. 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


       
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.  Make Yahoo! your homepage.
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From Opus40-01  Sun Nov 18 18:24:40 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:24:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Film Noir
Message-ID: <4740C9B8.8030309@opus40.org>

http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2007/11/film-noir.html

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From jforjames  Sun Nov 18 20:16:52 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:16:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <314433.99433.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F86100813770-A34-5078@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>


Yes, but not everyone is Whitman. If one believes one's work is that good, go for it.
The other great poet of the era didn't even try to publish. So there's another model.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture



Whitman did it most of his life -- look where it got his work ...

Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net> wrote:
It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a 
couple of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no 
one was going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most 
important press and journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's 
good that people are reading it.

The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the 
right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a 
sort of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to 
do it. That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about 
going that route rather than trying to find a more traditional 
publisher, but at the same time, I like the fact that there's a link 
between this sort of thing and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were 
so important to the poets I take to be my aesthetic forebears in the 
sixties and seventies.

amy king wrote:
>
> *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>
> *
>
> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your 
> homepage. 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. 


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 18 20:31:00 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 20:31:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark No. 34 (2007)
Message-ID: <8C9F862F9B44D28-A34-510D@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>


Date:??? Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:40:17 -0500
From:??? William Slaughter <wrs at UNF.EDU>
Subject: Notice: Mudlark

New and On View: Mudlark No. 34 (2007)


Baroque Threads by Donald Wellman

from Notebook: Cuaderno de Costa Rica

Donald Wellman teaches cultural studies and writing at Daniel Webster 
College. Fields, a selected poems, spanning twenty years of work, appeared 
in 1995 (Light and Dust). Wellman has translated from French, German, and 
Spanish. Currently he is working with the Spanish poet Antonio Gamoneda. 
As editor of O.ARS, a series of anthologies devoted to postmodern poetics 
and practices, he derived personal satisfaction from the use of 
punctuation a la dada. The selection here is from his Notebook: Cuaderno 
de Costa Rica. His poetry engages emerging identities from an ethnographic 
perspective. These projects include Diario mexicano, Oaxaca, and Prolog 
Pages. Excerpts from these projects can be found in various on-line and 
print media: Eratio Postmodern Poetry, There, and Fascicle among others. 
His essay, "Creeley's Ear," appeared in Jacket Magazine 31. His "Prose on 
Uxmal" will be found in the current Absent Magazine. "Your Sleep is a 
Closed Almond," from Yvan Goll's Traumkraut, appears in Circumference 5 
(Fall 2006). Other translations from Goll appear in the current Calque.


Spread the word. Far and wide,


William Slaughter

MUDLARK

An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics
Never in and never out of print...
E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu
URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark

------------------------------

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From robin.hamilton2  Mon Nov 19 12:27:19 2007
From: robin.hamilton2 (ROBIN HAMILTON)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:27:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <8C9F86100813770-A34-5078@webmail-md20.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <514819.15619.qm@web86613.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

> Yes, but not everyone is Whitman. If one believes
> one's work is that good, go for it.
> The other great poet of the era didn't even try to
> publish. So there's another model.
> Finnegan

Well, she did try, but not very hard and without much
luck.

A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
success from self-publishing, was William Blake.

So it goes ...

Robin



From Opus40-01  Mon Nov 19 12:43:21 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:43:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <514819.15619.qm@web86613.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <514819.15619.qm@web86613.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4741CB39.1090507@opus40.org>

And Stephen Crane.

ROBIN HAMILTON wrote:
>> Yes, but not everyone is Whitman. If one believes
>> one's work is that good, go for it.
>> The other great poet of the era didn't even try to
>> publish. So there's another model.
>> Finnegan
>>     
>
> Well, she did try, but not very hard and without much
> luck.
>
> A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
> success from self-publishing, was William Blake.
>
> So it goes ...
>
> Robin
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From jforjames  Mon Nov 19 14:17:05 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:17:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <514819.15619.qm@web86613.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F8F7E81D9D59-1138-1696@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com>

I don't want to come off as being against self-publishing. It makes a lot sense when it comes to poetry.
Think about all the time and money poets spend entering?poetry ms. contests, trying to place poems in
obscure journals, and the like...and then think about spending those same resources trying to hustle one's
own books. Most might be better off on the latter course. Unless it's a really notable press, the imprimatur
of?a?small?press probably counts for little in terms of what gets read.

And POD technology makes a lot?of sense for small presses. When I do another book with my small, very small, press, 
I'll probably print about half of what I usually have printed and if those copies?run out, it wll be POD orders only?
after that. It's interesting that there is more attention paid to POD then to E-books. Though, I guess
there is a kind of crossover when whole books can be downloaded as pdf files, instead of being printed.

Finnegan. 


-----Original Message-----
From: ROBIN HAMILTON <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:27 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture



> Yes, but not everyone is Whitman. If one believes
> one's work is that good, go for it.
> The other great poet of the era didn't even try to
> publish. So there's another model.
> Finnegan

Well, she did try, but not very hard and without much
luck.

A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
success from self-publishing, was William Blake.

So it goes ...

Robin
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From jforjames  Mon Nov 19 14:46:15 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:46:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <473FCCD7.2060505@myuw.net>
References: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<473FCCD7.2060505@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <8C9F8FBFAF68011-1138-190F@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com>

Jason, what does "'our' kind of work" mean?here? Is there?'blazeVOX school' or are you identifying yourself as Post-Avant?

It doesn't seem that POD will have any exclusivity about it...it's going to be way to go for poets of almost every flavor. Desktop
publishing led to the proliferation of small poetry publishers and now POD makes it cheaper for those publishers to put out more books. 
Easier for poets to bypass presses/editors altogether, if they choose to.

In the shadow of these tech advances,?there are still a fair number of fine letter press publishers out there. Doing just a few books or 
broadsides per year, printing them on machines that haven't be made in over 50 years... and some of the machines much older than that. 
Handsetting type with great care, sewing together the pages, etc.?There is something?admirable?about a publisher?who would?do that
to put?another person's poems into the world.?Adastra Press in Easthampton MA, run by Gary Metras, is one of those retro-operation
whose work I've cherished over the years. 

Finnegan?


-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:25 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture


It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a couple of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no one was going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most important press and journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's good that people are reading it.?
?
The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a sort of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to do it. That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about going that route rather than trying to find a more traditional publisher, but at the same time, I like the fact that there's a link between this sort of thing and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were so important to the poets I take to be my aesthetic forebears in the sixties and seventies.?
?
amy king wrote:?
>?
> *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant?
>?
> *?
>?
> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your > homepage. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
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From amyhappens  Mon Nov 19 16:04:43 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:04:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <8C9F8FBFAF68011-1138-190F@webmail-dd17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <479917.89759.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

And thank god (or dog or monkey) there are so many publishing options now that have forced the "either/or" argument to fade into the background.  Poetry's merit shouldn't be based on what press invested what money into what book and spent money promoting it where any longer.  Hasn't that model produced as much boring or "bad" or irrelevant poetry as "good"?  As well as *not* produced some fine poetry ...

I love books published by those who continue to make fine books, though I tend to see the book as more of an object and investment and am fearful of handling ... they don't ride the subway with me.  But I also love self-made projects like the Dusie Chapbook Collective, where folks can put as much or as little into creating and distributing their chaps as they like.  I've rec'd some wonderfully-crafted  "objects" with not-so-exciting poetry, and I've rec'd some slap-dash-made books that house words that take the top of my head off. 

Small press and POD books seem to be as reviewed now as the big name publishers' wares - they also are distributed and rank on the top bookstore websites - the playing field is leveling a bit ...

Cheers,
Amy

jforjames at aol.com wrote: Jason, what does "'our' kind of work" mean here? Is there 'blazeVOX school' or are you identifying yourself as Post-Avant?
 
 It doesn't seem that POD will have any exclusivity about it...it's going to be way to go for poets of almost every flavor. Desktop
 publishing led to the proliferation of small poetry publishers and now POD makes it cheaper for those publishers to put out more books. 
 Easier for poets to bypass presses/editors altogether, if they choose to.
 
 In the shadow of these tech advances, there are still a fair number of fine letter press publishers out there. Doing just a few books or 
 broadsides per year, printing them on machines that haven't be made in over 50 years... and some of the machines much older than that. 
 Handsetting type with great care, sewing together the pages, etc. There is something admirable about a publisher who would do that
 to put another person's poems into the world. Adastra Press in Easthampton MA, run by Gary Metras, is one of those retro-operation
 whose work I've cherished over the years. 
 
 Finnegan 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net>
 Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
 Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:25 am
 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture
 
   It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a couple of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no one was going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most important press and journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's good that people are reading it. 
  
 The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a sort of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to do it. That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about going that route rather than trying to find a more traditional publisher, but at the same time, I like the fact that there's a link between this sort of thing and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were so important to the poets I take to be my aesthetic forebears in the sixties and seventies. 
  
 amy king wrote: 
 > 
 > *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant 
 > 
 > * 
 > 
 > http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html 
 > 
 > 
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
 > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your > homepage. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> 
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________ 
 > New-Poetry mailing list 
 > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
 > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
 >  
 _______________________________________________ 
 New-Poetry mailing list 
 New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
 http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
 
  
---------------------------------
 Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
 
 _______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


       
---------------------------------
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From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 19 18:07:21 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:07:21 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] L.E.
Message-ID: <00a501c82b00$f0c58510$60a83852@ANNY>

This morning I received a message from Ben Mazer telling me that Landis Everson has committed suicide in Mill valley. "He shot himself in the head with his WWII pistol when he went for a walk on Saturday."
Ben also added that Landis had a series of strokes which made it impossible for him to write poetry.

I had a very nice correspondence with Landis, he was such a cheerful and open friend online. Then we lost got lost (what a slip of the fingers...) and Ben some time ago upon my inquiry, said he was having health problems. 
I am forwarding his link on the Corner:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=163



Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From bobgrumman  Mon Nov 19 18:12:41 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:12:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <479917.89759.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <479917.89759.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47421869.2010909@nut-n-but.net>


> I've rec'd some wonderfully-crafted  "objects" with not-so-exciting poetry

Me, too.  Long ago, I named the presses doing that "boutique presses."  
Not that there aren't a few presses that do beautiful books with 
first-rate poetry in them.

--Bob G.




From jforjames  Mon Nov 19 18:20:00 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:20:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <479917.89759.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F919D718FB49-D20-1BFA@Webmail-mg08.sysops.aol.com>

http://www.phylumpress.com/
This press has done some lovely chaps and pamphlets. 

I'm not a collector, so if I lose a nice book, I'm inclined to say lke Epictetus, "I've not lost this thing, I have only given it back."
(I once dropped a poetry book by accident into a washing machine at a laundromat. I looked all over the place
for it, only to open the lid and see it sloshing around in the soap bubbles. That one was a total loss.)

POD is definitely a godsend, good?thing for poetry/small press. It's benefits will be felt from the largest
to smallest of publishers. It's?just a more economical?means or production.?Industry for years has been
graviting to JIT (just in time production). Having the thing built just as the moment the?order arrives
for it. 
The POD book do come out of machines that probably cost a half-million dollars. Though I guess there 
are smaller atm like machines coming on line... http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/6/prweb534914.htm
Anyway capitalism still has place in this model, I'm afraid. And the technological havenots are not likely to warm
to POD, because creating the files take a computer, software and skill set. I'm not certain J'lyn Chapman 
recognizes?those factors?in her piece.

Finnegan

?


-----Original Message-----
From: amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture


And thank god (or dog or monkey) there are so many publishing options now that have forced the "either/or" argument to fade into the background.? Poetry's merit shouldn't be based on what press invested what money into what book and spent money promoting it where any longer.? Hasn't that model produced as much boring or "bad" or irrelevant poetry as "good"?? As well as *not* produced some fine poetry ...

I love books published by those who continue to make fine books, though I tend to see the book as more of an object and investment and am fearful of handling ... they don't ride the subway with me.? But I also love self-made projects like the Dusie Chapbook Collective, where folks can put as much or as little into creating and distributing their chaps as they like.? I've rec'd some wonderfully-crafted? "objects" with not-so-exciting poetry, and I've rec'd some slap-dash-made books that house words that take the top of my head off. 

Small press and POD books seem to be as reviewed now as the big name publishers' wares - they also are distributed and rank on the top bookstore websites - the playing field is leveling a bit ...

Cheers,
Amy

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
Jason, what does "'our' kind of work" mean?here? Is there?'blazeVOX school' or are you identifying yourself as Post-Avant?

It doesn't seem that POD will have any exclusivity about it...it's going to be way to go for poets of almost every flavor. Desktop
publishing led to the proliferation of small poetry publishers and now POD makes it cheaper for those publishers to put out more books. 
Easier for poets to bypass presses/editors altogether, if they choose to.

In the shadow of these tech advances,?there are still a fair number of fine letter press publishers out there. Doing just a few books or 
broadsides per year, printing them on machines that haven't be made in over 50 years... and some of the machines much older than that. 
Handsetting type with great care, sewing together the pages, etc.?There is something?admirable?about a publisher?who would?do that
to put?another person's poems into the world.?Adastra Press in Easthampton MA, run by Gary Metras, is one of those retro-operation
whose work I've cherished over the years. 

Finnegan?


-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:25 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture


It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a couple of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no one was going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most important press and journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's good that people are reading it.?
?
The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a sort of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to do it. That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about going that route rather than trying to find a more traditional publisher, but at the same time, I like the fact that there's a link between this sort of thing and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were so important to the poets I take to be my aesthetic forebears in the sixties and seventies.?
?
amy king wrote:?
>?
> *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant?
>?
> *?
>?
> >http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html?
?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your > homepage. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. 


_______________________________________________
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New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From skip  Mon Nov 19 19:02:23 2007
From: skip (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:02:23 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <479917.89759.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001301c82b08$a6a8eb40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Ditto. On all counts. I'm never worried about a glut of the bad at the
expense of missing the good (or god, or monkey or pig). What the mimeo did
for NY poets in the 1960s p.o.d. does now: streamlines, makes accessible.
The only difference, some p.o.d. books are discernibly lovely objects: well
produced and intelligently and artistically designed textually. 

 

One discovers the good the old fashion way. Word of mouth (as, virtually, on
this list) and, maybe, reviews by those whose judgment you trust.

 

I've keep finding so much good that I know I'll never be done with it. Too
late to try to read it all. But that's only a cause for despair if one has a
scholar's (bibliographical) temperament. Otherwise, it's 95% terrific.

 

(Maybe everyone will become poets?)

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of amy king
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:05 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
/Literature & Culture

 

And thank god (or dog or monkey) there are so many publishing options now
that have forced the "either/or" argument to fade into the background.
Poetry's merit shouldn't be based on what press invested what money into
what book and spent money promoting it where any longer.  Hasn't that model
produced as much boring or "bad" or irrelevant poetry as "good"?  As well as
*not* produced some fine poetry ...

I love books published by those who continue to make fine books, though I
tend to see the book as more of an object and investment and am fearful of
handling ... they don't ride the subway with me.  But I also love self-made
projects like the Dusie Chapbook Collective, where folks can put as much or
as little into creating and distributing their chaps as they like.  I've
rec'd some wonderfully-crafted  "objects" with not-so-exciting poetry, and
I've rec'd some slap-dash-made books that house words that take the top of
my head off. 

Small press and POD books seem to be as reviewed now as the big name
publishers' wares - they also are distributed and rank on the top bookstore
websites - the playing field is leveling a bit ...

Cheers,
Amy

jforjames at aol.com wrote:

Jason, what does "'our' kind of work" mean here? Is there 'blazeVOX school'
or are you identifying yourself as Post-Avant?

It doesn't seem that POD will have any exclusivity about it...it's going to
be way to go for poets of almost every flavor. Desktop
publishing led to the proliferation of small poetry publishers and now POD
makes it cheaper for those publishers to put out more books. 
Easier for poets to bypass presses/editors altogether, if they choose to.

In the shadow of these tech advances, there are still a fair number of fine
letter press publishers out there. Doing just a few books or 
broadsides per year, printing them on machines that haven't be made in over
50 years... and some of the machines much older than that. 
Handsetting type with great care, sewing together the pages, etc. There is
something admirable about a publisher who would do that
to put another person's poems into the world. Adastra Press in Easthampton
MA, run by Gary Metras, is one of those retro-operation
whose work I've cherished over the years. 

Finnegan 


-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:25 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
Literature & Culture

It's good to see Geoff's efforts getting attention. He's published a couple
of things of mine that I had previously come to the conclusion no one was
going to take a chance on. blazeVOX is possibly the most important press and
journal of "our" kind of work right now and it's good that people are
reading it. 
 
The link has an interesting discussion of POD that I think hit's all the
right notes. I'm planning on self-publishing a book of poetry soon as a sort
of tribute to Tender Buttons and I intend to use a POD service to do it.
That article really captured a lot of the fears I have about going that
route rather than trying to find a more traditional publisher, but at the
same time, I like the fact that there's a link between this sort of thing
and the xeroxed "little" magazines that were so important to the poets I
take to be my aesthetic forebears in the sixties and seventies. 
 
amy king wrote: 
> 
> *BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant 
> 
> * 
> 
>
http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publi
shing.html 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your > homepage.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> New-Poetry mailing list 
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
>  
_______________________________________________ 
New-Poetry mailing list 
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 

  _____  

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

  

  _____  

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<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51443/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>  your homepage.


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From jforjames  Mon Nov 19 19:43:56 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:43:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] L.E.
In-Reply-To: <00a501c82b00$f0c58510$60a83852@ANNY>
References: <00a501c82b00$f0c58510$60a83852@ANNY>
Message-ID: <8C9F92590FB4FDE-169C-1C84@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com>

Sorry to hear that...I do hope I have the guts and wherewithal to end things 
before?its a?dragged-out ending beyond my control.

I didn't know him at all...but I liked the story of how a few years ago he 
came back to poetry after a long silence.
Here's an interview...
http://jacketmagazine.com/26/ever-iv.html

Finnegan



-----Original Message-----
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
To: New Poetry <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 6:07 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] L.E.



This morning I received a message from Ben Mazer telling me that Landis Everson has committed suicide in Mill valley. "He shot himself in the head with his WWII pistol when he went for a walk on Saturday."

Ben also added that Landis had a series of strokes which made it impossible for him to write poetry.

?

I had a very nice correspondence with Landis, he was such a cheerful and open friend online. Then we lost got lost (what a slip of the fingers...) and Ben some time ago upon my inquiry, said he was having health problems. 

I am forwarding his link on the Corner:

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=163

?

?

?

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 




_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
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From bobgrumman  Mon Nov 19 20:22:18 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:22:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <8C9F919D718FB49-D20-1BFA@Webmail-mg08.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9F919D718FB49-D20-1BFA@Webmail-mg08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474236CA.3060503@nut-n-but.net>



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> http://www.phylumpress.com/
> This press has done some lovely chaps and pamphlets.
>
> I'm not a collector, so if I lose a nice book, I'm inclined to say lke 
> Epictetus, "I've not lost this thing, I have only given it back."
> (I once dropped a poetry book by accident into a washing machine at a 
> laundromat. I looked all over the place
> for it, only to open the lid and see it sloshing around in the soap 
> bubbles. That one was a total loss.)
Haw, if you wuz a Innervater, it wouldn'ta been a complete loss, James!  
Seriously, I wonder if any poets in the Cage school have used the 
washing machine approach.  I think it could turn out some interesting stuff.

Meanwhile, I've done two POD books so far this year and am considering a 
third.

Also, meanwhile, just got my copies of E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S, The 
Second XV Interviews, curated by Tom Beckett.  Me and some female named 
Anny are interviewed in it.  No big names in it--unless Michael Heller 
is one.  Maybe so--from his bio, I see he's published in Harper's, APR, 
and suchsludge (yes, "suchsludge").  I reviewed a book of his for 
American Book Review--favorably.

--Bob G.




From jforjames  Mon Nov 19 20:50:38 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:50:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Voicing Emily
Message-ID: <8C9F92EE26714A2-DA0-5416@Webmail-mg14.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.theage.com.au/news/arts-reviews/voicing-emily/2007/11/19/1195321658605.html
Voicing Emily
November 19, 2007

This is a work of ravishing beauty and rare artistic distinction.


Voicing Emily.


Advertisement
GenreTheatreLocationCUB MalthouseAddress113 Sturt St, SouthbankDate14 November 2007 to 24 November 2007Phone Bookings(03) 9685 5111Online Bookingswww.malthousetheatre.com.au

Teaching Emily Dickinson's poetry left the great American literary commentator Harold Bloom with fierce headaches "since the difficulties force me past my limits".

Bloom claimed that Dickinson manifested what he called "more cognitive originality" than any other Western poet except Shakespeare. Yet she had virtually only one character to work from and that was the "I" of herself.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From david.bircumshaw  Tue Nov 20 03:57:55 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:57:55 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/Literature & Culture
References: <514819.15619.qm@web86613.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000501c82b53$72e3a2a0$23c60556@windows>

> A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
> success from self-publishing, was William Blake.

Cesar Vallejo's great 'Trilce' (1917) was, I believe, self-published. Or is
the correct phrase 'privately published'?

Best

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBIN HAMILTON" <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
/Literature & Culture


> > Yes, but not everyone is Whitman. If one believes
> > one's work is that good, go for it.
> > The other great poet of the era didn't even try to
> > publish. So there's another model.
> > Finnegan
>
> Well, she did try, but not very hard and without much
> luck.
>
> A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
> success from self-publishing, was William Blake.
>
> So it goes ...
>
> Robin
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From halvard  Tue Nov 20 08:59:37 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 07:59:37 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry
	/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <000501c82b53$72e3a2a0$23c60556@windows>
References: <514819.15619.qm@web86613.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<000501c82b53$72e3a2a0$23c60556@windows>
Message-ID: <50B448F6-B650-4039-BA57-EE5415C81D73@earthlink.net>

Robert Creeley also self-published a couple early books.

Hal

"Take what you can use and let the rest go by."
     --Ken Kesey

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 20, 2007, at 2:57 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote:

>> A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
>> success from self-publishing, was William Blake.
>
> Cesar Vallejo's great 'Trilce' (1917) was, I believe, self- 
> published. Or is
> the correct phrase 'privately published'?
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ROBIN HAMILTON" <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics &  
> Poetry
> /Literature & Culture
>
>
>>> Yes, but not everyone is Whitman. If one believes
>>> one's work is that good, go for it.
>>> The other great poet of the era didn't even try to
>>> publish. So there's another model.
>>> Finnegan
>>
>> Well, she did try, but not very hard and without much
>> luck.
>>
>> A parallel to Whitman, but without his immediate
>> success from self-publishing, was William Blake.
>>
>> So it goes ...
>>
>> Robin
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From skip  Tue Nov 20 10:02:25 2007
From: skip (Skip Fox)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:02:25 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics &
	Poetry/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <50B448F6-B650-4039-BA57-EE5415C81D73@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000001c82b86$62e117b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

I'd forgotten about Creeley and was ready to refute, but yes, Divers Press
in Palma de Mallorca published three small volumes in 1953 and 1954. 

Berrigan's lovely _Sonnets_ were self published I believe. And he would send
them to every poet he really appreciated. He said he would rarely hear back
but sometime after he'd sent the book to Creeley, he was reading an
interview with Creeley. When Creeley was asked if he was excited about any
new poets, he didn't hesitate. Saying something like "this guy in New York,"
he named Ted.

But POD is NOT self published, and that gets me to an important point. The
fear of "every person a poet" is due to the plethora which confronts us. How
do we find the poets who are those we need to find (if you know what I
mean)? Shy of an algorithm like Pandora.com (lovely free radio station you
can simply choose) which selects songs to pump through the virtual limins by
whoever one selects as a sort of major artist (try Cage, Eno, Billy Holiday,
Coltrane), there are presses like BlazeVox (soon Ahadada?) which are very
discerning. We can "buy the list." For instance, on the basis of reading a
few poems by Aaron Belz, when I saw his name at BlazeVox, I bought a copy.
This morning I was rocking in a still chair reading. Allegrezza didn't
surprise me so much because I'd read quite a bit by him, but when I saw him
at BlazeVox, I bought his book and probably a dozen others (including
Amy's).  One can read a publisher's list and he or she becomes the
algorithm. Thus, a reader can find his or her way.

Most of the other reasons to bemoan the plethora (that I can think of) are
not flattering: wanting only the best poetry in circulation "for the
culture's health," or somesuch, while 97% of what the culture "attends" to
is something other than ANY variety of poetry; to eliminate competition for
prizes, or placement in "serious publications," etc. 

Or, as a teacher of creative writing, perhaps we'd want students who liked
Goldbarth over Collins (I'm not just trying to be nice, I'd rather have
Olson or even Bukowski over Goldbarth, but Goldbarth is "on the way" as they
say, as are we all). Instead, at a school like mine, we only occasionally
get that. But I have found that each of these students, maybe slightly less
that 50% of the time, invests some deep experience and language grace as
well as intelligence in their work (even with titles like "Living").

What would we do without these students? Teach more comp classes? Teaching
such students (I've only taught 300 level once) can be more rewarding than
graduate or senior-graduate courses. They see so much and say so much. So
why bitch about too many poets. (Esp. when some of use are contributing to
the "credentialing" of probably 500 or more MFA's and PhD's with
concentration in creative writing coming out of United States and Canadian
universities each year.)

One learns to swim.

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:00 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics &
Poetry/Literature & Culture

Robert Creeley also self-published a couple early books.

Hal

"Take what you can use and let the rest go by."
     --Ken Kesey

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html






From skip  Tue Nov 20 11:13:18 2007
From: skip (Skip Fox)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:13:18 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics
	&Poetry/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <000001c82b86$62e117b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c82b90$49933bd0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

I can think of one valid reason to bemoan the amount and quality of what is
considered poetry. I was an editor of a magazine in the 1990's and our
magazine (Die Young, co-edited with Jesse Glass) was once listed in Poets &
Writers as the best of the best ten places to break in. (We really weren't
but that's how they listed us.)

I received 1,500 entries in one summer. But hell, it was summer, so I wrote
a hand written rejection to each author but one, mentioning poets who they
might like based on their work. 

That was before I started teaching creative writing, but I think it probably
helped me a lot, learning to take these (usually) young writers seriously,
and frankly, learning how to read work which was not accomplished, and
learning how to consider it.

But I admit that the editor's job is very hard due to the relatively under
considered and/or unexperienced work of so many submissions, including I'm
sure, some of mine.







From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 20 12:57:09 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:57:09 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics &
	Poetry/Literature & Culture
References: <8C9F919D718FB49-D20-1BFA@Webmail-mg08.sysops.aol.com>
	<474236CA.3060503@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <002f01c82b9e$c5cf6670$86ed104f@ANNY>

Hey you already got it! I live in a low world country and will have to 
patiently wait for aLlongLong while
you mean a _female_?
oh jeeex,
ohy ohy

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:22 AM


>
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>> http://www.phylumpress.com/
>> This press has done some lovely chaps and pamphlets.
>>
>> I'm not a collector, so if I lose a nice book, I'm inclined to say lke 
>> Epictetus, "I've not lost this thing, I have only given it back."
>> (I once dropped a poetry book by accident into a washing machine at a 
>> laundromat. I looked all over the place
>> for it, only to open the lid and see it sloshing around in the soap 
>> bubbles. That one was a total loss.)
> Haw, if you wuz a Innervater, it wouldn'ta been a complete loss, James! 
> Seriously, I wonder if any poets in the Cage school have used the washing 
> machine approach.  I think it could turn out some interesting stuff.
>
> Meanwhile, I've done two POD books so far this year and am considering a 
> third.
>
> Also, meanwhile, just got my copies of E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S, The 
> Second XV Interviews, curated by Tom Beckett.  Me and some female named 
> Anny are interviewed in it.  No big names in it--unless Michael Heller is 
> one.  Maybe so--from his bio, I see he's published in Harper's, APR, and 
> suchsludge (yes, "suchsludge").  I reviewed a book of his for American 
> Book Review--favorably.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 




From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 20 13:01:13 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:01:13 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] >2: An Anthology of New Collaborative Poetry
Message-ID: <003601c82b9f$571fdec0$86ed104f@ANNY>

forwarding from Sheila Murphy who is the co-editor with M.L.Weber (I did receive this book already, thanks to Sheila. I was asked by kari edwards to enter the game, here's to kari!)

This just in - available for purchase - SUGAR MULE PRESS

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?S=R&bid=9281928842&cm_mmc=shopcompare-_-base-_-aisbn-_-na




Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 20 13:51:44 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:51:44 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Eoagh
Message-ID: <005e01c82ba6$661d2250$86ed104f@ANNY>

Issue 4:
http://chax.org/eoagh/issuefour.html



Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From amyhappens  Tue Nov 20 14:12:46 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] MiPOesias - December Issue 
In-Reply-To: <000001c82b86$62e117b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <597857.9103.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

   
  MiPOesias presents 
  http://www.mipoesias.com/
  
 
 
  POETRY (w Poets' Portraits)
 
   
  *  Gabriella Torres  ~  The History of the Body
 *  Christopher Stackhouse  ~  Mater - Pater
 *  Ken Rumble  ~  Learn All This Stuff ??? From St. Apples
 *  Reb livingston  ~ The Third Chronicle of Marriage ??? The Sixth Chronicle of Marriage ??? The Seventh Chronicle of Marriage ??? The Eighth Chronicle of Marriage
 *  Sara Femenella  ~ The Secret of Everything That Concerns You ??? Come With Balloons ??? Seduction ??? An Apt Misunderstanding and I Would Thank You
 *  Michelle Buchanan  ~  My Body Parts ??? An Experiment in Breathing
 *  Miguel Murphy  ~ Cricket ??? Red ??? Self-Portrait???s CaravaggioWalking Night???s Pier ??? Enjoy Flesh! ??? Coprophagy (2) ??? Nihilist of the Heart???s Divine
 *  Barbara Jane Reyes  ~ The Bamboo???s Insomnia ??? The Bamboo???s Insomnia 2 ??? Killer of Ferdinand Magellan ??? We, Spoken Here ??? Upland Dance
 
 
   
  REVIEWS
 
 
  The Indefatigable Hope for Place by Michael Parker
  Lee Herrick???s This Many Miles from Desire.
 Xantippe 4/5
 The Landscape of Flesh & Blood by Michael Parker.
  William Aleggrezza???s Fragile Replacements.
 Pris Campbell???s Abrasions.
 Reb Livingston???s Your Ten Favorite Words
   
   
  INTERVIEW
   
  Jenni Russell asks Billy Collins
   
  Enjoy!
   
  Amy King, Editor
  Didi Menendez, Publisher
   
  http://www.mipoesias.com/
  http://www.mipoesias.com/
  http://www.mipoesias.com/
  http://www.mipoesias.com/
   
  
       
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.  Make Yahoo! your homepage.
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From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 20 19:02:39 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 01:02:39 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
Message-ID: <011301c82bd1$d5209260$86ed104f@ANNY>

still working but with several breaks. Who would like to venture the name of a painter for the following painting?

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From bobgrumman  Tue Nov 20 19:49:38 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:49:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics
	&	Poetry/Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <000001c82b86$62e117b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <000001c82b86$62e117b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <474380A2.5090005@nut-n-but.net>


> But POD is NOT self published, and that gets me to an important point. The
> fear of "every person a poet" is due to the plethora which confronts us. How
> do we find the poets who are those we need to find (if you know what I
> mean)?
Whatcha mean, "POD is NOT self published," Skip?  Not necessarily, yes.

As for the plethora, looks like it's again time for me to push my 
(partial) solution: list and make known a complete list of poetry 
schools, intelligently defined, so that people can use it to zero in on 
what they like, and what may be near what they like.

And to add to the history, Cummings's first importantly innovative 
collection, NO THANKS, was self-published.  His Tulips and Chimneys was 
also self-published, I believe.

I think another important kind of publication is friend-published.  All 
my unself-published chapbooks have been published by poets whom I have 
published.  Very incestuous, no doubt.  And little more than 
self-publication.  Never a matter of you publish me and I'll publish 
you, but not that far from it.  I tend to think that's the case with 
most university press poets, too, but have made no study of the 
question.  (I'll soon have my first regular length collection published, 
though--by a press whose poet-proprietor I've never published!  Yow.)

Frankly, I know of no commercial publisher I would be proud to be 
published by.  No small press, either, but a lot of micro-presses.  Not 
that I would disdain being published by a BigPress, but I would accept 
such publication only because it would make me, and my kind of poetry, 
better known--and perhaps even make me money, another thing I'm 
certainly not against.

--Bob G.




From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 21 09:23:14 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:23:14 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
References: <011301c82bd1$d5209260$86ed104f@ANNY>
Message-ID: <005801c82c4a$0df2d800$237c3652@ANNY>

Nobody?
Not even an attempt at shining?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: New Poetry 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:02 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz


  still working but with several breaks. Who would like to venture the name of a painter for the following painting?




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 21 11:45:17 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:45:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
In-Reply-To: <005801c82c4a$0df2d800$237c3652@ANNY>
References: <011301c82bd1$d5209260$86ed104f@ANNY>
	<005801c82c4a$0df2d800$237c3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <4744609D.5080105@nut-n-but.net>

It's too good for Blake, so some imitator of Michangelo but not 
Michelangelo because I would think I'd have seen it before if it was and 
it's new to me.  Verrochio?  Someone Michelangelo imitated, and I'm not 
interested enough in representational painting to know about?  In any 
case, quite an interesting picture, Anny.

--Bob

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Nobody?
> Not even an attempt /at shining?/
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Anny Ballardini <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>
>     *To:* New Poetry <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:02 AM
>     *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
>
>     still working but with several breaks. Who would like to venture
>     the name of a painter for the following painting?
>      
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 21 12:20:28 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:20:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
References: <011301c82bd1$d5209260$86ed104f@ANNY><005801c82c4a$0df2d800$237c3652@ANNY>
	<4744609D.5080105@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c82c62$d04e7900$05ec3652@ANNY>

You are a little genius, I was surprised when I saw this picture and noticed the incredible resemblance to Blake's (by now remade?) paintings, it is by Vasari (July 30, 1511 - June 27, 1574), the excellent writer of the Life of the Painters, here he is on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_Vasari

and here is the Life of the Artists:
http://www.artist-biography.info/
a wonderful reading!

cheers!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz


> It's too good for Blake, so some imitator of Michangelo but not 
> Michelangelo because I would think I'd have seen it before if it was and 
> it's new to me.  Verrochio?  Someone Michelangelo imitated, and I'm not 
> interested enough in representational painting to know about?  In any 
> case, quite an interesting picture, Anny.
> 
> --Bob
> 
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>> Nobody?
>> Not even an attempt /at shining?/
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Anny Ballardini <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>
>>     *To:* New Poetry <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:02 AM
>>     *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
>>
>>     still working but with several breaks. Who would like to venture
>>     the name of a painter for the following painting?
>>      
>>      
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>     New-Poetry mailing list
>>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From Opus40-01  Wed Nov 21 12:26:19 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:26:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
In-Reply-To: <000c01c82c62$d04e7900$05ec3652@ANNY>
References: <011301c82bd1$d5209260$86ed104f@ANNY><005801c82c4a$0df2d800$237c3652@ANNY>	<4744609D.5080105@nut-n-but.net>
	<000c01c82c62$d04e7900$05ec3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <47446A3B.5080202@opus40.org>

Would never have guessed in a million years. I only know Vasari as 
biographer.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> You are a little genius, I was surprised when I saw this picture and 
> noticed the incredible resemblance to Blake's (by now remade?) 
> paintings, it is by Vasari (July 30, 1511 - June 27, 1574), the 
> excellent writer of the Life of the Painters, here he is on Wikipedia.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_Vasari
>  
> and here is the Life of the Artists:
> http://www.artist-biography.info/
> a wonderful reading!
>  
> cheers!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net 
> <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
>
> > It's too good for Blake, so some imitator of Michangelo but not
> > Michelangelo because I would think I'd have seen it before if it was 
> and
> > it's new to me.  Verrochio?  Someone Michelangelo imitated, and I'm not
> > interested enough in representational painting to know about?  In any
> > case, quite an interesting picture, Anny.
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> > Anny Ballardini wrote:
> >> Nobody?
> >> Not even an attempt /at shining?/
> >>
> >>     ----- Original Message -----
> >>     *From:* Anny Ballardini <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> >>     *To:* New Poetry <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:02 AM
> >>     *Subject:* [New-Poetry] a homemade quiz
> >>
> >>     still working but with several breaks. Who would like to venture
> >>     the name of a painter for the following painting?
> >>     
> >>     
> >>
> >>     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     New-Poetry mailing list
> >>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>  
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 21 12:57:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:57:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] galatea
Message-ID: <002f01c82c68$078d97c0$05ec3652@ANNY>

here is some work:

GALATEA RESURRECTS ANNOUNCEMENT

Galatea Resurrects  (A Poetry Engagement) is pleased to release its Eighth
Issue at _http://galatearesurrection8.blogspot.com_
(http://galatearesurrection8.blogspot.com/)   with 64 new reviews/engagements!

We are always looking for reviewers;  next review deadline is March 5, 2008.
For GR's submission and review copy  information, please go to
_http://grarchives.blogspot.com_ (http://grarchives.blogspot.com/)

GR  No. 8's Table of Contents is cutnpasted below for  convenience.,
Enjoy!

Eileen Tabios
GR Editor & Animal  Lover

==========

GALATEA RESURRECTS (A POETRY  ENGAGEMENT)

November 30, 2007

EDITOR'S INTRODUCTION
By Eileen Tabios


NEW REVIEWS
Patrick James Dunagan  reviews WRITING POETRY: FROM THE INSIDE OUT by Sanford
Lyne

Sam Lohmann  reviews "BURNING INTERIORS": DAVID SHAPIRO'S POETRY AND
POETICS, Edited by  Thomas Fink and Joseph Lease

Patrick James Dunagan reviews RIPPLE  EFFECT: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS by
Elaine Equi

Sam Lohmann engages RIPPLE  EFFECT: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS by Elaine Equi

Ernesto Priego reviews  WORLD0 and NO SOUNDS OF MY OWN MAKING by John
Bloomberg-Rissman; UNPROTECTED  TEXTS and STEPS: A NOTEBOOK by Tom Beckett; and ESTE
BIENESTAR, TIBIO/THIS  WELL-BEING, WARM, POEMS IN TRANSLATION by Argel Corpus

Barry Schwabsky  reviews GLOIRE DES FORMES PRECEDE DE LE DOUBLE CORPS DES
IMAGES by Jean Fremon

Patrick Rosal reviews AMIGO WARFARE and ZERO GRAVITY, both by Eric  Gamalinda

Eileen Tabios engages AMIGO WARFARE and LYRICS FROM A DEAD  LANGUAGE, both by
Eric Gamalinda

Thomas Fink reviews FRAGILE  REPLACEMENTS by William Allegrezza

Pam Brown engages URBAN MYTHS: 210  POEMS by John Tranter

Rochelle Ratner engages HELEN IN EGYPT by H.D.;  LOBA by Diane di Prima;
SURVIVAL: A THEMATIC GUIDE TO CANADIAN LITERATURE by  Margaret Atwood; and THE
JOURNAL OF SUSANNA MOODIE by Margaret Atwood

Lars Palm reviews OPERA BUFA by Adam Fieled

Pam Brown engages  BLUE GRASS by Peter Minter

Raymond John De Borja reviews ALL THE  PAINTINGS OF THE GIORGIONE by
Elizabeth Willis

Eileen Tabios engages  WANTON TEXTILES by Reb Livingston and Ravi Shankar

Ryan Daley reviews  THE ECSTASY OF CAPITULATION by Daniel Borzutzky

Joe LeClerc reviews CANA  QUEMADA [BURNT SUGAR] - CONTEMPORARY CUBAN POETRY
IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH, Edited  by Lori Marie Carlson & Oscar Hijuelos

John Bloomberg-Rissman  reviews A SPY IN THE HOUSE OF YEARS, CAPITAL and
ERRATUM TO A SPY IN THE HOUSE  OF YEARS (LEVIATHAN PRESS, 2001), all by Giles
Goodland

Nicholas Manning  reviews BLACK STONE by Dale Smith

Burt Kimmelman reviews PASSING OVER,  POWERS: TRACKVOLUME 3, COLUMNS:
TRACKVOLUME 2, TRACK and RESTLESS MESSENGERS,  all by Norman Finkelstein

Patrick James Dunagan reviews COMPLETE MINIMAL  POEMS by Aram Saroyan

Lisa Bower reviews THE ARCHITECTURE OF LANGUAGE by  Quincy Troupe

Jeff Harrison reviews DAYS POEM, VOLS. I and II by Allen  Bramhall

Burt Kimmelman reviews FORTY-NINE GUARANTEED WAYS TO ESCAPE  DEATH by Sandy
McIntosh

Eileen Tabios engages HUMAN SCALE by Michael  Kelleher

Pam Brown engages VOODOO REALITIES by Philip Hammial

Laurel Johnson reviews PASSING OVER by Norman Finkelstein

Pamela  Hart reviews THREADS by Jill Magi

Lars Palm reviews DOCUMENT by Ana  Bozicevic-Bowling

Nicholas Manning reviews OBSTRUCTS/CONSTITUTES by John  Crouse

Eric Hoffman reviews N/O by Ron Silliman

William  Allegrezza reviews GUESTS OF SPACE by Anselm Hollo

Larissa Shmailo  reviews E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E V-A-L-U-E-S: THE FIRST XI
INTERVIEWS, Curated by Tom  Beckett

Eileen Tabios engages PUBLIC ACCESS #1, Edited by Nicholas  Grider

Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews PIONEERS IN THE STUDY OF MOTION by  Susan
Briante

Mark Young reviews EL TSUNAMI by Kevin Opstedal

Aileen Ibardaloza engages "LAKBAY-KAMAY", a poem by Father Albert Alejo;
"PSALM 120" in BOOK OF PSALMS, THE NELSON STUDY BIBLE; "OUT BEYOND IDEAS" by
Jelludin Rumi in THE ESSENTIAL RUMI, Translated by Coleman Barks; and OUT
BEYOND  IDEAS, a CD by David Wilcox and Nance Pettit

Kristina Marie Darling  reviews INBOX by Noah Eli Gordon

John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews NOVEL  PICTORIAL NOISE by Noah Eli Gordon

Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews THE  HAPPINESS EXPERIMENT by Lisa Fishman

Paul Klinger reviews LETTERS TO  EARLY STREET by Albert Flynn DeSilver

Eileen Tabios engages FREE by  Amanda Laughtland

Ivy Alvarez reviews MOONSHINE by MML Bliss

Beatriz Tabios reviews THE BOOK OF THE ROTTEN DAUGHTER by Alice Friman

Eileen Tabios engages BELOVED INTEGER by Michelle Naka Pierce


THE CRITIC WRITES POEMS
Two Poems by Patrick James  Dunagan: "Dear Elaine," and "A Sloop in the Heart
of Things"


FEATURE ARTICLE
"The Poetry of Put-On" (Addressing Bill  Knott, Andrei Codrescu, Armand
Schwerner, Jack Spicer, Among Others) by Rochelle  Ratner


FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEWS
Murat  Nemet-Nejat reviews SUDDEN ADDRESS, SELECTED LECTURES 1981-2006 by
Bill Berkson

Scott Glassman reviews SIGHT PROGRESS by Zhang Er, Translated by Rachel
Levitsky with the author

Judith Roitman reviews INVERSE and THE BOOK OF  OCEAN, both by Maryrose
Larkin


ADVERTISEMENT
Meritage  Press Tiny Books Releases Fifth Title for Poetry to Keep Feeding
the World!


BACK COVER
The Bad Bad  Metaphor!
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 13:00:50 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:00:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] On Myth
Message-ID: <8C9FA7F95EE11B0-658-8E34@WEBMAIL-MC10.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.theliberal.co.uk/issue_11/artsandculture/myth_warner_11.html

On Myth 
by Marina Warner 


WRITERS don?t make up myths; they take them over and recast them. Even Homer was telling stories that his audience already knew. If some individuals present weren?t acquainted with Odysseus?s wanderings or the Trojan War, and were listening in for the first time (as I was when a child, enthralled by the gods and goddesses in H.A. Guerber?s classic retelling), they were still aware that this was a common inheritance that belonged to everyone. Its single author ? if Homer was one at all ? acted as a conduit of collective knowledge, picking up the thread and telling it anew.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 15:02:36 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:02:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
Message-ID: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.metroactive.com/metro/11.21.07/arts-0747.html

Translator and poet W.S. Merwin muses on the importance of nothing

By Gretchen Giles



ON A SUNNY Saturday afternoon in October, two weeks after his 80th birthday, the poet W.S. Merwin calmly announces that he's just 27?on the inside. Wearing a jaunty hat given to him by the novelist Frank McCourt and dressed in cashmere against the chill that an evening's birthday celebration in wine country promises, Merwin cuts a handsome figure for any age. 


Settling into a chair in the library of literary agent Steven Barclay's comfortable home, Merwin says, "Actually, I think that I started realizing that I was me when I was about 3." But the strength of a man at 27?the keenness, the curiosity, the intellect, the mastery?are clearly evident even as Merwin embarks on his ninth decade. 



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 21 15:32:13 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 21:32:13 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>

I am therefore right when I say that I still have to decide what I will do when I grow up, you see, I knew it!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:02 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80


  http://www.metroactive.com/metro/11.21.07/arts-0747.html
  Translator and poet W.S. Merwin muses on the importance of nothing
  By Gretchen Giles

  ON A SUNNY Saturday afternoon in October, two weeks after his 80th birthday, the poet W.S. Merwin calmly announces that he's just 27?on the inside. Wearing a jaunty hat given to him by the novelist Frank McCourt and dressed in cashmere against the chill that an evening's birthday celebration in wine country promises, Merwin cuts a handsome figure for any age. 

  Settling into a chair in the library of literary agent Steven Barclay's comfortable home, Merwin says, "Actually, I think that I started realizing that I was me when I was about 3." But the strength of a man at 27?the keenness, the curiosity, the intellect, the mastery?are clearly evident even as Merwin embarks on his ninth decade. 
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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 21 15:34:45 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:34:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
In-Reply-To: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47449665.2080809@nut-n-but.net>

I was just thinking about Merwin.  An Italian interested in American 
Poetry wrote asking me, among other things, who the leading mainstream 
American poet was considered to be.  Or something I interpreted as 
that.  He mentioned Ashbery and Strand.  I said I didn't know but 
mentioned Wilbur as king of the formalists, and Collins as probably the 
most popular serious poet, and Rich as the one for the politically 
super-correct.  I mention Merwin, too--but said he didn't seem to be in 
the running any more.  I think maybe that's because all the BigTime 
awards-bestowers have given him money and they're not allowed to given 
prizes twice to the same poet or something, so he no longer makes news, 
and making news (as poet laureates do) is the gatekeepers main way of 
knowing who the leading poets of our age are.

--Bob G.




From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 21 15:44:20 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:44:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
In-Reply-To: <008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>
	<008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <474498A4.9000606@nut-n-but.net>

My problem is that two people share my interior, one twelve, the other 120.

--Bob

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> I am therefore right when I say that I still have to decide what I 
> will do when I grow up, you see, I knew it!
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:02 PM
>     *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
>
>     http://www.metroactive.com/metro/11.21.07/arts-0747.html
>     Translator and poet W.S. Merwin muses on the importance of nothing
>     By Gretchen Giles
>      
>     ON A SUNNY Saturday afternoon in October, two weeks after his 80th
>     birthday, the poet W.S. Merwin calmly announces that he's just
>     27?on the inside. Wearing a jaunty hat given to him by the
>     novelist Frank McCourt and dressed in cashmere against the chill
>     that an evening's birthday celebration in wine country promises,
>     Merwin cuts a handsome figure for any age.
>
>     Settling into a chair in the library of literary agent Steven
>     Barclay's comfortable home, Merwin says, "Actually, I think that I
>     started realizing that I was me when I was about 3." But the
>     strength of a man at 27?the keenness, the curiosity, the
>     intellect, the mastery?are clearly evident even as Merwin embarks
>     on his ninth decade.
>      
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 21 16:09:16 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:09:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com><008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>
	<474498A4.9000606@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <00a001c82c82$c7156d60$05ec3652@ANNY>

Yes, I agree with you Bob, that is the way you are. Courage, in about 50 something years you'll be about 60, not too bad. You still have 20 years to be 27, see Merwin.
  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:44 PM


  My problem is that two people share my interior, one twelve, the other 120.

  --Bob

  Anny Ballardini wrote: 
    I am therefore right when I say that I still have to decide what I will do when I grow up, you see, I knew it!
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: jforjames at aol.com 
      To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
      Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:02 PM
      Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80


      http://www.metroactive.com/metro/11.21.07/arts-0747.html
      Translator and poet W.S. Merwin muses on the importance of nothing
      By Gretchen Giles

      ON A SUNNY Saturday afternoon in October, two weeks after his 80th birthday, the poet W.S. Merwin calmly announces that he's just 27?on the inside. Wearing a jaunty hat given to him by the novelist Frank McCourt and dressed in cashmere against the chill that an evening's birthday celebration in wine country promises, Merwin cuts a handsome figure for any age. 

      Settling into a chair in the library of literary agent Steven Barclay's comfortable home, Merwin says, "Actually, I think that I started realizing that I was me when I was about 3." But the strength of a man at 27?the keenness, the curiosity, the intellect, the mastery?are clearly evident even as Merwin embarks on his ninth decade. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 18:31:13 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:31:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
In-Reply-To: <47449665.2080809@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>
	<47449665.2080809@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8C9FAADBD399C0A-2E8-97E5@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>


I'd add Phil Levine, Gary Snyder, Amiri Baraka?to short list of gray eminences (born in 20s or 30s).?Other than Rich,
I think Mary Oliver, who was late bloomer among her age group, qualifies. I'm struggling to?find other?female poets?
put in the same company. Carolyn Kizer and Jean Valentine perhaps, but both have been less noticed than their
male counterparts...Marge Piercy always seems a special case to me, not exactly 'of the poets'. Diane DiPrima, too, 
seems part of an era rather than a poet who could windsurf the Zeitgeist. I'm sure the generation behind this one 
will have more women in the forefront.

Lawrence Ferlinghetti despite his long career seems a little like an odd man out. Michael Harper ran away from fame,
it seems to me. I can hear W.D. Snodgrass saying, "I coulda been a contender, Charlie."
Robin Blaser is of the same age group, but I don't think he has the notoriety of the others. And he lived in Vancouver
for many years...making him defacto Canadian.


Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 3:34 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80



I was just thinking about Merwin. An Italian interested in American Poetry wrote asking me, among other things, who the leading mainstream American poet was considered to be. Or something I interpreted as that. He mentioned Ashbery and Strand. I said I didn't know but mentioned Wilbur as king of the formalists, and Collins as probably the most popular serious poet, and Rich as the one for the politically super-correct. I mention Merwin, too--but said he didn't seem to be in the running any more. I think maybe that's because all the BigTime awards-bestowers have given him money and they're not allowed to given prizes twice to the same poet or something, so he no longer makes news, and making news (as poet laureates do) is the gatekeepers main way of knowing who the leading poets of our age are.?
?
--Bob G.?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 18:45:25 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:45:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <474498A4.9000606@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>	<008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>
	<474498A4.9000606@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8C9FAAFB90D0D4E-2E8-986F@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>



Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean you have to like them all or even most of them,
they got here by being visible...
\































































Ack erman?Diane
Ai?
Alexie?Sherman
Angelou?Maya
Armantrout?Rae
Ashbery?John
Baca?Jimmy Santiago
Baraka?Amiri
Bernstein?Charles
Berry?Wendell
Bidart?Frank
Blaser?Robin
Bly?Robert
Brock-Broido?Lucie 
Broumas?Olga
Carruth?Hayden
Clifton?Lucille
Collins?Billy
Cordrescu?Andre
DiPrima?Diane
Dobyns?Stephen
Doty?Mark
Dove?Rita
Dunn?Stephen
Edson?Russell
Ferlinghetti?Lawrence
Forche?Carolyn
Fulton?Alice
Gallagher?Tess
Gilbert?Jack
Gioia?Dana
Giovanni?Niki
Gl?ck?Louise 
Goldbarth ?Albert
Graham?Jorie
Gregg?Linda 
Hacker?Marilyn
Hall?Donald
Harjo?Joy
Harper?Michael S.
Harryman?Carla
Hass?Robert
Hejinian?Lyn
Hillman?Brenda
Hirsch?Edward
Hirschfield?Jane 
Hollander?John
Holman?Bob
Howard?Richard 
Howe?Susan
Inez?Collete
Kinnell?Galway
Kizer?Carolyn
Komunyakaa?Yusef
Kumin?Maxime
Kunitz?Stanley
Lauterbach?Ann 
Lee?Li-Young
Lehman?David
Levine?Philip 
Lux?Thomas
Mackey?Nathanial
McClatchy?J. D.
McHugh?Heather
Merwin?W. S.
Mueller?Lisel
Mullen?Harryette
Olds?Sharon
Oliver?Mary
Pastan?Linda 
Peacock?Molly
Perlman?Bob
Piercy?Marge
Pinsky?Robert
Revell?Donald
Rich?Adrienne
Rogers?Pattiann
Sanchez?Sonia
Silliman?Ron
Simic?Charles 
Simpson?Louis 
Smith?Dave 
Smith?Patricia 
Snodgrass?W.D.
Snyder?Gary 
St. John?David
Stern?Gerald
Strand?Mark
Tate?James
Troupe?Quincy 
Valentine?Jean
Voigt?Ellen Bryant
Walcott?Derek
Waldman?Anne
Wilbur?Richard 
Williams?C. K. 
Wright?C. D.
Wright?Charles
Wright?Franz



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 18:49:45 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:49:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FAAFB90D0D4E-2E8-986F@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>	<008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>	<474498A4.9000606@nut-n-but.net>
	<8C9FAAFB90D0D4E-2E8-986F@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9FAB054094DAC-2E8-9895@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>

Strange internet formating issues may have made this list invisible....hope it gets thru this time:




ck erman?Diane

i?

lexie?Sherman

ngelou?Maya

rmantrout?Rae

shbery?John

aca?Jimmy Santiago

araka?Amiri

ernstein?Charles

erry?Wendell

idart?Frank

laser?Robin

ly?Robert

rock-Broido?Lucie 

roumas?Olga

arruth?Hayden

lifton?Lucille

ollins?Billy

ordrescu?Andre

iPrima?Diane

obyns?Stephen

oty?Mark

ove?Rita

unn?Stephen

dson?Russell

erlinghetti?Lawrence

orche?Carolyn

ulton?Alice

allagher?Tess

ilbert?Jack

ioia?Dana

iovanni?Niki

l?ck?Louise 

oldbarth ?Albert

raham?Jorie

regg?Linda 

acker?Marilyn

all?Donald

arjo?Joy

arper?Michael S.

arryman?Carla

ass?Robert

ejinian?Lyn

illman?Brenda

irsch?Edward

irschfield?Jane 

ollander?John

olman?Bob

oward?Richard 

owe?Susan

nez?Collete

innell?Galway

izer?Carolyn

omunyakaa?Yusef

umin?Maxime

unitz?Stanley

auterbach?Ann 

ee?Li-Young

ehman?David

evine?Philip 

ux?Thomas

ackey?Nathanial

cClatchy?J. D.

cHugh?Heather

erwin?W. S.

ueller?Lisel

ullen?Harryette

lds?Sharon

liver?Mary

astan?Linda 

eacock?Molly

erlman?Bob

iercy?Marge

insky?Robert

evell?Donald

ich?Adrienne

ogers?Pattiann

anchez?Sonia

illiman?Ron

imic?Charles 

impson?Louis 

mith?Dave 

mith?Patricia 

nodgrass?W.D.

nyder?Gary 

t. John?David

tern?Gerald

trand?Mark

ate?James

roupe?Quincy 

alentine?Jean

oigt?Ellen Bryant

alcott?Derek

aldman?Anne

ilbur?Richard 

illiams?C. K. 

right?C. D.

right?Charles

right?Franz





-----Original Message-----
From: jforjames at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 6:45 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know




Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean you have to like them all or even most of them,

hey got here by being visible...

































































ck erman?Diane

i?

lexie?Sherman

ngelou?Maya

rmantrout?Rae

shbery?John

aca?Jimmy Santiago

araka?Amiri

ernstein?Charles

erry?Wendell

idart?Frank

laser?Robin

ly?Robert

rock-Broido?Lucie 

roumas?Olga

arruth?Hayden

lifton?Lucille

ollins?Billy

ordrescu?Andre

iPrima?Diane

obyns?Stephen

oty?Mark

ove?Rita

unn?Stephen

dson?Russell

erlinghetti?Lawrence

orche?Carolyn

ulton?Alice

allagher?Tess

ilbert?Jack

ioia?Dana

iovanni?Niki

l?ck?Louise 

oldbarth ?Albert

raham?Jorie

regg?Linda 

acker?Marilyn

all?Donald

arjo?Joy

arper?Michael S.

arryman?Carla

ass?Robert

ejinian?Lyn

illman?Brenda

irsch?Edward

irschfield?Jane 

ollander?John

olman?Bob

oward?Richard 

owe?Susan

nez?Collete

innell?Galway

izer?Carolyn

omunyakaa?Yusef

umin?Maxime

unitz?Stanley

auterbach?Ann 

ee?Li-Young

ehman?David

evine?Philip 

ux?Thomas

ackey?Nathanial

cClatchy?J. D.

cHugh?Heather

erwin?W. S.

ueller?Lisel

ullen?Harryette

lds?Sharon

liver?Mary

astan?Linda 

eacock?Molly

erlman?Bob

iercy?Marge

insky?Robert

evell?Donald

ich?Adrienne

ogers?Pattiann

anchez?Sonia

illiman?Ron

imic?Charles 

impson?Louis 

mith?Dave 

mith?Patricia 

nodgrass?W.D.

nyder?Gary 

t. John?David

tern?Gerald

trand?Mark

ate?James

roupe?Quincy 

alentine?Jean

oigt?Ellen Bryant

alcott?Derek

aldman?Anne

ilbur?Richard 

illiams?C. K. 

right?C. D.

right?Charles

right?Franz



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!




_______________________________________________
ew-Poetry mailing list
ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 21 19:25:29 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:25:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FAB054094DAC-2E8-9895@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FA9098BF69E4-A00-3D1D@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>	<008601c82c7d$99f12130$05ec3652@ANNY>
	<474498A4.9000606@nut-n-but.net><8C9FAAFB90D0D4E-2E8-986F@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
	<8C9FAB054094DAC-2E8-9895@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4744CC79.6050607@nut-n-but.net>

If the race were fair, it'd be wonderful to know the competition was so 
poor.

--Bob G.

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Strange internet formating issues may have made this list 
> invisible....hope it gets thru this time:
>
>
>
>
>     Ack erman Diane
>
>
>     Ai 
>
>
>     Alexie Sherman
>
>
>     Angelou Maya
>
>
>     Armantrout Rae
>
>
>     Ashbery John
>
>
>     Baca Jimmy Santiago
>
>
>     Baraka Amiri
>
>
>     Bernstein Charles
>
>
>     Berry Wendell
>
>
>     Bidart Frank
>
>
>     Blaser Robin
>
>
>     Bly Robert
>
>
>     Brock-Broido Lucie 
>
>
>     Broumas Olga
>
>
>     Carruth Hayden
>
>
>     Clifton Lucille
>
>
>     Collins Billy
>
>
>     Cordrescu Andre
>
>
>     DiPrima Diane
>
>
>     Dobyns Stephen
>
>
>     Doty Mark
>
>
>     Dove Rita
>
>
>     Dunn Stephen
>
>
>     Edson Russell
>
>
>     Ferlinghetti Lawrence
>
>
>     Forche Carolyn
>
>
>     Fulton Alice
>
>
>     Gallagher Tess
>
>
>     Gilbert Jack
>
>
>     Gioia Dana
>
>
>     Giovanni Niki
>
>
>     Gl?ck Louise 
>
>
>     Goldbarth  Albert
>
>
>     Graham Jorie
>
>
>     Gregg Linda 
>
>
>     Hacker Marilyn
>
>
>     Hall Donald
>
>
>     Harjo Joy
>
>
>     Harper Michael S.
>
>
>     Harryman Carla
>
>
>     Hass Robert
>
>
>     Hejinian Lyn
>
>
>     Hillman Brenda
>
>
>     Hirsch Edward
>
>
>     Hirschfield Jane 
>
>
>     Hollander John
>
>
>     Holman Bob
>
>
>     Howard Richard 
>
>
>     Howe Susan
>
>
>     Inez Collete
>
>
>     Kinnell Galway
>
>
>     Kizer Carolyn
>
>
>     Komunyakaa Yusef
>
>
>     Kumin Maxime
>
>
>     Kunitz Stanley
>
>
>     Lauterbach Ann 
>
>
>     Lee Li-Young
>
>
>     Lehman David
>
>
>     Levine Philip 
>
>
>     Lux Thomas
>
>
>     Mackey Nathanial
>
>
>     McClatchy J. D.
>
>
>     McHugh Heather
>
>
>     Merwin W. S.
>
>
>     Mueller Lisel
>
>
>     Mullen Harryette
>
>
>     Olds Sharon
>
>
>     Oliver Mary
>
>
>     Pastan Linda 
>
>
>     Peacock Molly
>
>
>     Perlman Bob
>
>
>     Piercy Marge
>
>
>     Pinsky Robert
>
>
>     Revell Donald
>
>
>     Rich Adrienne
>
>
>     Rogers Pattiann
>
>
>     Sanchez Sonia
>
>
>     Silliman Ron
>
>
>     Simic Charles 
>
>
>     Simpson Louis 
>
>
>     Smith Dave 
>
>
>     Smith Patricia 
>
>
>     Snodgrass W.D.
>
>
>     Snyder Gary 
>
>
>     St. John David
>
>
>     Stern Gerald
>
>
>     Strand Mark
>
>
>     Tate James
>
>
>     Troupe Quincy 
>
>
>     Valentine Jean
>
>
>     Voigt Ellen Bryant
>
>
>     Walcott Derek
>
>
>     Waldman Anne
>
>
>     Wilbur Richard 
>
>
>     Williams C. K. 
>
>
>     Wright C. D.
>
>
>     Wright Charles
>
>
>     Wright Franz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jforjames at aol.com
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 6:45 pm
> Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>
> Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean you have to like them all or even most of them,
>
>
> they got here by being visible...
>
>
> \
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> Ack erman Diane
>
>
> Ai 
>
>
> Alexie Sherman
>
>
> Angelou Maya
>
>
> Armantrout Rae
>
>
> Ashbery John
>
>
> Baca Jimmy Santiago
>
>
> Baraka Amiri
>
>
> Bernstein Charles
>
>
> Berry Wendell
>
>
> Bidart Frank
>
>
> Blaser Robin
>
>
> Bly Robert
>
>
> Brock-Broido Lucie 
>
>
> Broumas Olga
>
>
> Carruth Hayden
>
>
> Clifton Lucille
>
>
> Collins Billy
>
>
> Cordrescu Andre
>
>
> DiPrima Diane
>
>
> Dobyns Stephen
>
>
> Doty Mark
>
>
> Dove Rita
>
>
> Dunn Stephen
>
>
> Edson Russell
>
>
> Ferlinghetti Lawrence
>
>
> Forche Carolyn
>
>
> Fulton Alice
>
>
> Gallagher Tess
>
>
> Gilbert Jack
>
>
> Gioia Dana
>
>
> Giovanni Niki
>
>
> Gl?ck Louise 
>
>
> Goldbarth  Albert
>
>
> Graham Jorie
>
>
> Gregg Linda 
>
>
> Hacker Marilyn
>
>
> Hall Donald
>
>
> Harjo Joy
>
>
> Harper Michael S.
>
>
> Harryman Carla
>
>
> Hass Robert
>
>
> Hejinian Lyn
>
>
> Hillman Brenda
>
>
> Hirsch Edward
>
>
> Hirschfield Jane 
>
>
> Hollander John
>
>
> Holman Bob
>
>
> Howard Richard 
>
>
> Howe Susan
>
>
> Inez Collete
>
>
> Kinnell Galway
>
>
> Kizer Carolyn
>
>
> Komunyakaa Yusef
>
>
> Kumin Maxime
>
>
> Kunitz Stanley
>
>
> Lauterbach Ann 
>
>
> Lee Li-Young
>
>
> Lehman David
>
>
> Levine Philip 
>
>
> Lux Thomas
>
>
> Mackey Nathanial
>
>
> McClatchy J. D.
>
>
> McHugh Heather
>
>
> Merwin W. S.
>
>
> Mueller Lisel
>
>
> Mullen Harryette
>
>
> Olds Sharon
>
>
> Oliver Mary
>
>
> Pastan Linda 
>
>
> Peacock Molly
>
>
> Perlman Bob
>
>
> Piercy Marge
>
>
> Pinsky Robert
>
>
> Revell Donald
>
>
> Rich Adrienne
>
>
> Rogers Pattiann
>
>
> Sanchez Sonia
>
>
> Silliman Ron
>
>
> Simic Charles 
>
>
> Simpson Louis 
>
>
> Smith Dave 
>
>
> Smith Patricia 
>
>
> Snodgrass W.D.
>
>
> Snyder Gary 
>
>
> St. John David
>
>
> Stern Gerald
>
>
> Strand Mark
>
>
> Tate James
>
>
> Troupe Quincy 
>
>
> Valentine Jean
>
>
> Voigt Ellen Bryant
>
>
> Walcott Derek
>
>
> Waldman Anne
>
>
> Wilbur Richard 
>
>
> Williams C. K. 
>
>
> Wright C. D.
>
>
> Wright Charles
>
>
> Wright Franz
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From jfq  Wed Nov 21 21:25:38 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:25:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FAAFB90D0D4E-2E8-986F@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711211825380.16703@hymn32.u.washington.edu>

it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with.

Actually here are my substitutions

Include:

Padgett Ron
Notley Alice
Berrigan Anselm
Eshleman Clayton
Rothernberg Jerome
Algarin Miguel
Wakefield Buddy
Raworth Tom


in turn remove:
Ai
Angelou Maya
Dove Rita
Giovanni Nikki
Gioia Dana
Graham Jorie
Levine Phillip
Lee Li Young

Also, Didn't Hayden Carruth pass on recently? Or is this not a list of living poets?

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean you have to like them all or even most of them,
> they got here by being visible...
> \
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ack erman?Diane
> Ai?
> Alexie?Sherman
> Angelou?Maya
> Armantrout?Rae
> Ashbery?John
> Baca?Jimmy Santiago
> Baraka?Amiri
> Bernstein?Charles
> Berry?Wendell
> Bidart?Frank
> Blaser?Robin
> Bly?Robert
> Brock-Broido?Lucie
> Broumas?Olga
> Carruth?Hayden
> Clifton?Lucille
> Collins?Billy
> Cordrescu?Andre
> DiPrima?Diane
> Dobyns?Stephen
> Doty?Mark
> Dove?Rita
> Dunn?Stephen
> Edson?Russell
> Ferlinghetti?Lawrence
> Forche?Carolyn
> Fulton?Alice
> Gallagher?Tess
> Gilbert?Jack
> Gioia?Dana
> Giovanni?Niki
> Gl?ck?Louise
> Goldbarth ?Albert
> Graham?Jorie
> Gregg?Linda
> Hacker?Marilyn
> Hall?Donald
> Harjo?Joy
> Harper?Michael S.
> Harryman?Carla
> Hass?Robert
> Hejinian?Lyn
> Hillman?Brenda
> Hirsch?Edward
> Hirschfield?Jane
> Hollander?John
> Holman?Bob
> Howard?Richard
> Howe?Susan
> Inez?Collete
> Kinnell?Galway
> Kizer?Carolyn
> Komunyakaa?Yusef
> Kumin?Maxime
> Kunitz?Stanley
> Lauterbach?Ann
> Lee?Li-Young
> Lehman?David
> Levine?Philip
> Lux?Thomas
> Mackey?Nathanial
> McClatchy?J. D.
> McHugh?Heather
> Merwin?W. S.
> Mueller?Lisel
> Mullen?Harryette
> Olds?Sharon
> Oliver?Mary
> Pastan?Linda
> Peacock?Molly
> Perlman?Bob
> Piercy?Marge
> Pinsky?Robert
> Revell?Donald
> Rich?Adrienne
> Rogers?Pattiann
> Sanchez?Sonia
> Silliman?Ron
> Simic?Charles
> Simpson?Louis
> Smith?Dave
> Smith?Patricia
> Snodgrass?W.D.
> Snyder?Gary
> St. John?David
> Stern?Gerald
> Strand?Mark
> Tate?James
> Troupe?Quincy
> Valentine?Jean
> Voigt?Ellen Bryant
> Walcott?Derek
> Waldman?Anne
> Wilbur?Richard
> Williams?C. K.
> Wright?C. D.
> Wright?Charles
> Wright?Franz
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>






From faustina1  Wed Nov 21 22:35:57 2007
From: faustina1 (faustina1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:35:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711211825380.16703@hymn32.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>

I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem to have an agenda.? Janet


-----Original Message-----
From: jfq at myuw.net
Bcc: faustina1 at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 8:25 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with.?
?
Actually here are my substitutions?
?
Include:?
?
Padgett Ron?
Notley Alice?
Berrigan Anselm?
Eshleman Clayton?
Rothernberg Jerome?
Algarin Miguel?
Wakefield Buddy?
Raworth Tom?
?
in turn remove:?
Ai?
Angelou Maya?
Dove Rita?
Giovanni Nikki?
Gioia Dana?
Graham Jorie?
Levine Phillip?
Lee Li Young?
?
Also, Didn't Hayden Carruth pass on recently? Or is this not a list of living poets??
?
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
?
>?
>?
> Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean you have to like them all or even most of them,?
> they got here by being visible...?
> \?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Ack erman?Diane?
> Ai??
> Alexie?Sherman?
> Angelou?Maya?
> Armantrout?Rae?
> Ashbery?John?
> Baca?Jimmy Santiago?
> Baraka?Amiri?
> Bernstein?Charles?
> Berry?Wendell?
> Bidart?Frank?
> Blaser?Robin?
> Bly?Robert?
> Brock-Broido?Lucie?
> Broumas?Olga?
> Carruth?Hayden?
> Clifton?Lucille?
> Collins?Billy?
> Cordrescu?Andre?
> DiPrima?Diane?
> Dobyns?Stephen?
> Doty?Mark?
> Dove?Rita?
> Dunn?Stephen?
> Edson?Russell?
> Ferlinghetti?Lawrence?
> Forche?Carolyn?
> Fulton?Alice?
> Gallagher?Tess?
> Gilbert?Jack?
> Gioia?Dana?
> Giovanni?Niki?
> Gl?ck?Louise?
> Goldbarth ?Albert?
> Graham?Jorie?
> Gregg?Linda?
> Hacker?Marilyn?
> Hall?Donald?
> Harjo?Joy?
> Harper?Michael S.?
> Harryman?Carla?
> Hass?Robert?
> Hejinian?Lyn?
> Hillman?Brenda?
> Hirsch?Edward?
> Hirschfield?Jane?
> Hollander?John?
> Holman?Bob?
> Howard?Richard?
> Howe?Susan?
> Inez?Collete?
> Kinnell?Galway?
> Kizer?Carolyn?
> Komunyakaa?Yusef?
> Kumin?Maxime?
> Kunitz?Stanley?
> Lauterbach?Ann?
> Lee?Li-Young?
> Lehman?David?
> Levine?Philip?
> Lux?Thomas?
> Mackey?Nathanial?
> McClatchy?J. D.?
> McHugh?Heather?
> Merwin?W. S.?
> Mueller?Lisel?
> Mullen?Harryette?
> Olds?Sharon?
> Oliver?Mary?
> Pastan?Linda?
> Peacock?Molly?
> Perlman?Bob?
> Piercy?Marge?
> Pinsky?Robert?
> Revell?Donald?
> Rich?Adrienne?
> Rogers?Pattiann?
> Sanchez?Sonia?
> Silliman?Ron?
> Simic?Charles?
> Simpson?Louis?
> Smith?Dave?
> Smith?Patricia?
> Snodgrass?W.D.?
> Snyder?Gary?
> St. John?David?
> Stern?Gerald?
> Strand?Mark?
> Tate?James?
> Troupe?Quincy?
> Valentine?Jean?
> Voigt?Ellen Bryant?
> Walcott?Derek?
> Waldman?Anne?
> Wilbur?Richard?
> Williams?C. K.?
> Wright?C. D.?
> Wright?Charles?
> Wright?Franz?
>?
>?
>?
> ________________________________________________________________________?
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com?
>?
?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 23:03:15 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:03:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711211825380.16703@hymn32.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9FAD3BE42E26C-2E8-9FDD@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>

I can see Alice Notley bumping onto the list...but my list is based on 'visibility' (which I'd loosely define as appearing on 
contents pages of major anthologies, media mentions,?book reviews, public readings, etc.) and I'd be surprised if some
of your other replacements, worthy as they may be, could bump a Gioia or a Jorie, a Dove or an Angelou, etc.?

Say it?ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small house in upstate New York. But, yes two?list
criteria are living and?U.S. based?long enough to be considered 'American' by most.?
Finnegan?

it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with.?
?
Actually here are my substitutions?
?
Include:?
?
Padgett Ron?
Notley Alice?
Berrigan Anselm?
Eshleman Clayton?
Rothernberg Jerome?
Algarin Miguel?
Wakefield Buddy?
Raworth Tom?
?
in turn remove:?
Ai?
Angelou Maya?
Dove Rita?
Giovanni Nikki?
Gioia Dana?
Graham Jorie?
Levine Phillip?
Lee Li Young?







________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 21 23:51:30 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:51:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FAD3BE42E26C-2E8-9FDD@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9FADA7B939C2E-2E8-A0C0@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>

Kunitz?is gone, I'm afraid.?So I'll?sub Notley in for him. 
No 'c' in Hirshfield, and??'Maxine' was spelled wrong for?Kumin's first.

Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Finnegan
?


, yes two?list
criteria are living and?U.S. based?long enough to be considered 'American' by most.?
Finnegan?

________________________________________________________________________
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From jfq  Thu Nov 22 00:02:46 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 21:02:46 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47450D76.8060003@myuw.net>

I prefer agendas that are clear and out in the open. It's the agendas of 
things like the original list which go largely unnoticed that i find 
unsettling.

faustina1 at aol.com wrote:
> I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem 
> to have an agenda.  Janet
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfq at myuw.net
> Bcc: faustina1 at aol.com
> Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 8:25 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>
> it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would 
> definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with. 
>  
> Actually here are my substitutions 
>  
> Include: 
>  
> Padgett Ron 
> Notley Alice 
> Berrigan Anselm 
> Eshleman Clayton 
> Rothernberg Jerome 
> Algarin Miguel 
> Wakefield Buddy 
> Raworth Tom 
>  
> in turn remove: 
> Ai 
> Angelou Maya 
> Dove Rita 
> Giovanni Nikki 
> Gioia Dana 
> Graham Jorie 
> Levine Phillip 
> Lee Li Young 
>  
> Also, Didn't Hayden Carruth pass on recently? Or is this not a list of 
> living poets? 
>  
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com> wrote: 
>  
> > 
> > 
> > Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean 
> you have to like them all or even most of them, 
> > they got here by being visible... 
> > \ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ack erman Diane 
> > Ai  
> > Alexie Sherman 
> > Angelou Maya 
> > Armantrout Rae 
> > Ashbery John 
> > Baca Jimmy Santiago 
> > Baraka Amiri 
> > Bernstein Charles 
> > Berry Wendell 
> > Bidart Frank 
> > Blaser Robin 
> > Bly Robert 
> > Brock-Broido Lucie 
> > Broumas Olga 
> > Carruth Hayden 
> > Clifton Lucille 
> > Collins Billy 
> > Cordrescu Andre 
> > DiPrima Diane 
> > Dobyns Stephen 
> > Doty Mark 
> > Dove Rita 
> > Dunn Stephen 
> > Edson Russell 
> > Ferlinghetti Lawrence 
> > Forche Carolyn 
> > Fulton Alice 
> > Gallagher Tess 
> > Gilbert Jack 
> > Gioia Dana 
> > Giovanni Niki 
> > Gl?ck Louise 
> > Goldbarth  Albert 
> > Graham Jorie 
> > Gregg Linda 
> > Hacker Marilyn 
> > Hall Donald 
> > Harjo Joy 
> > Harper Michael S. 
> > Harryman Carla 
> > Hass Robert 
> > Hejinian Lyn 
> > Hillman Brenda 
> > Hirsch Edward 
> > Hirschfield Jane 
> > Hollander John 
> > Holman Bob 
> > Howard Richard 
> > Howe Susan 
> > Inez Collete 
> > Kinnell Galway 
> > Kizer Carolyn 
> > Komunyakaa Yusef 
> > Kumin Maxime 
> > Kunitz Stanley 
> > Lauterbach Ann 
> > Lee Li-Young 
> > Lehman David 
> > Levine Philip 
> > Lux Thomas 
> > Mackey Nathanial 
> > McClatchy J. D. 
> > McHugh Heather 
> > Merwin W. S. 
> > Mueller Lisel 
> > Mullen Harryette 
> > Olds Sharon 
> > Oliver Mary 
> > Pastan Linda 
> > Peacock Molly 
> > Perlman Bob 
> > Piercy Marge 
> > Pinsky Robert 
> > Revell Donald 
> > Rich Adrienne 
> > Rogers Pattiann 
> > Sanchez Sonia 
> > Silliman Ron 
> > Simic Charles 
> > Simpson Louis 
> > Smith Dave 
> > Smith Patricia 
> > Snodgrass W.D. 
> > Snyder Gary 
> > St. John David 
> > Stern Gerald 
> > Strand Mark 
> > Tate James 
> > Troupe Quincy 
> > Valentine Jean 
> > Voigt Ellen Bryant 
> > Walcott Derek 
> > Waldman Anne 
> > Wilbur Richard 
> > Williams C. K. 
> > Wright C. D. 
> > Wright Charles 
> > Wright Franz 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> ________________________________________________________________________ 
> > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL 
> Mail! - http://mail.aol.com <http://mail.aol.com/> 
> > 
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> New-Poetry mailing list 
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From jfq  Thu Nov 22 00:16:13 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 21:16:13 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FAD3BE42E26C-2E8-9FDD@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FAD3BE42E26C-2E8-9FDD@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4745109D.6070608@myuw.net>

It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is visible 
to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance poetry, they 
don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel Algarin. Tom 
Raworth, while not particularly visible on this side of the atlantic, is 
more visible in Great Britain than I think a number of the people on 
your list are. I'll withdraw the suggestion though and in his place 
offer Jim Carroll: the only living american poet of import to have 
penned a alternative rock anthem; one that still gets airplay on 
independent "underground" and alternative radio. Plus there was a movie 
about him, which is something you can't say about Jorie Graham, thank 
Christ. I didn't notice this was an american list. As for anthologies, I 
think it depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for sure, 
but I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg have 
more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and 
translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm Berrigan, 
aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New York School also 
is still the director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Place, which 
as far as I know is the longest running spoken word series on the east 
coast.

As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure and is 
maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few poets 
I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more anthologies that 
he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is in. But then, I don't 
generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can go too. 
Still, i think he's a poet everyone should know.

Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
Nothing in that drawer
~Ron Padgett "Nothing In That Drawer"

yrs,
JQ
jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> I can see Alice Notley bumping onto the list...but my list is based on 
> 'visibility' (which I'd loosely define as appearing on
> contents pages of major anthologies, media mentions, book reviews, 
> public readings, etc.) and I'd be surprised if some
> of your other replacements, worthy as they may be, could bump a Gioia 
> or a Jorie, a Dove or an Angelou, etc. 
>
> Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small 
> house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
> criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered 
> 'American' by most. 
> Finnegan 
>
>     it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would
>     definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with. 
>      
>     Actually here are my substitutions 
>      
>     Include: 
>      
>     Padgett Ron 
>     Notley Alice 
>     Berrigan Anselm 
>     Eshleman Clayton 
>     Rothernberg Jerome 
>     Algarin Miguel 
>     Wakefield Buddy 
>     Raworth Tom 
>      
>     in turn remove: 
>     Ai 
>     Angelou Maya 
>     Dove Rita 
>     Giovanni Nikki 
>     Gioia Dana 
>     Graham Jorie 
>     Levine Phillip 
>     Lee Li Young 
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From david.bircumshaw  Thu Nov 22 01:21:36 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 06:21:36 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>

>I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem to have an agenda.  Janet<

With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does have an agenda: it is 100 North American poets you should know, and, further, North American poets who have emerged from the late 1950's at the earliest.

At a quick look through it does seem to have a certain inclusiveness within those boundaries, but I can imagine still howls of excluded pique from some wings of US poetry still. I have to, though, gently tut at your lovely nation's brand of insularity in leaving out the rest of the English speaking world (I noticed the British Tom Raworth slipped into one list of alternative's but I guess he's considered honorary North American)

All the Best

Dave




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: faustina1 at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 3:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


  I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem to have an agenda.  Janet


  -----Original Message-----
  From: jfq at myuw.net
  Bcc: faustina1 at aol.com
  Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 8:25 pm
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


  it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with. 
   
  Actually here are my substitutions 
   
  Include: 
   
  Padgett Ron 
  Notley Alice 
  Berrigan Anselm 
  Eshleman Clayton 
  Rothernberg Jerome 
  Algarin Miguel 
  Wakefield Buddy 
  Raworth Tom 
   
  in turn remove: 
  Ai 
  Angelou Maya 
  Dove Rita 
  Giovanni Nikki 
  Gioia Dana 
  Graham Jorie 
  Levine Phillip 
  Lee Li Young 
   
  Also, Didn't Hayden Carruth pass on recently? Or is this not a list of living poets? 
   
  On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote: 
   
  > 
  > 
  > Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean you have to like them all or even most of them, 
  > they got here by being visible... 
  > \ 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Ack erman Diane 
  > Ai  
  > Alexie Sherman 
  > Angelou Maya 
  > Armantrout Rae 
  > Ashbery John 
  > Baca Jimmy Santiago 
  > Baraka Amiri 
  > Bernstein Charles 
  > Berry Wendell 
  > Bidart Frank 
  > Blaser Robin 
  > Bly Robert 
  > Brock-Broido Lucie 
  > Broumas Olga 
  > Carruth Hayden 
  > Clifton Lucille 
  > Collins Billy 
  > Cordrescu Andre 
  > DiPrima Diane 
  > Dobyns Stephen 
  > Doty Mark 
  > Dove Rita 
  > Dunn Stephen 
  > Edson Russell 
  > Ferlinghetti Lawrence 
  > Forche Carolyn 
  > Fulton Alice 
  > Gallagher Tess 
  > Gilbert Jack 
  > Gioia Dana 
  > Giovanni Niki 
  > Gl?ck Louise 
  > Goldbarth  Albert 
  > Graham Jorie 
  > Gregg Linda 
  > Hacker Marilyn 
  > Hall Donald 
  > Harjo Joy 
  > Harper Michael S. 
  > Harryman Carla 
  > Hass Robert 
  > Hejinian Lyn 
  > Hillman Brenda 
  > Hirsch Edward 
  > Hirschfield Jane 
  > Hollander John 
  > Holman Bob 
  > Howard Richard 
  > Howe Susan 
  > Inez Collete 
  > Kinnell Galway 
  > Kizer Carolyn 
  > Komunyakaa Yusef 
  > Kumin Maxime 
  > Kunitz Stanley 
  > Lauterbach Ann 
  > Lee Li-Young 
  > Lehman David 
  > Levine Philip 
  > Lux Thomas 
  > Mackey Nathanial 
  > McClatchy J. D. 
  > McHugh Heather 
  > Merwin W. S. 
  > Mueller Lisel 
  > Mullen Harryette 
  > Olds Sharon 
  > Oliver Mary 
  > Pastan Linda 
  > Peacock Molly 
  > Perlman Bob 
  > Piercy Marge 
  > Pinsky Robert 
  > Revell Donald 
  > Rich Adrienne 
  > Rogers Pattiann 
  > Sanchez Sonia 
  > Silliman Ron 
  > Simic Charles 
  > Simpson Louis 
  > Smith Dave 
  > Smith Patricia 
  > Snodgrass W.D. 
  > Snyder Gary 
  > St. John David 
  > Stern Gerald 
  > Strand Mark 
  > Tate James 
  > Troupe Quincy 
  > Valentine Jean 
  > Voigt Ellen Bryant 
  > Walcott Derek 
  > Waldman Anne 
  > Wilbur Richard 
  > Williams C. K. 
  > Wright C. D. 
  > Wright Charles 
  > Wright Franz 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ________________________________________________________________________ 
  > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com 
  > 
   
   
  _______________________________________________ 
  New-Poetry mailing list 
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 22 01:39:01 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 01:39:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711211825380.16703@hymn32.u.washington.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711211825380.16703@hymn32.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <47452405.10100@opus40.org>

I wouldn't bump any of your bump choices, but I like your list. I'd bump 
McHugh and the two Smiths, probably Stephen Dobyns. I'd rather not bump 
anyone. And I'd add

Samders Ed



jfq at myuw.net wrote:
> it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would 
> definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai with.
>
> Actually here are my substitutions
>
> Include:
>
> Padgett Ron
> Notley Alice
> Berrigan Anselm
> Eshleman Clayton
> Rothernberg Jerome
> Algarin Miguel
> Wakefield Buddy
> Raworth Tom
>
>
> in turn remove:
> Ai
> Angelou Maya
> Dove Rita
> Giovanni Nikki
> Gioia Dana
> Graham Jorie
> Levine Phillip
> Lee Li Young
>
> Also, Didn't Hayden Carruth pass on recently? Or is this not a list of 
> living poets?
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Here's the long list of notables, in my estimation...it doesn't mean 
>> you have to like them all or even most of them,
>> they got here by being visible...
>> \
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Ack erman Diane
>> Ai 
>> Alexie Sherman
>> Angelou Maya
>> Armantrout Rae
>> Ashbery John
>> Baca Jimmy Santiago
>> Baraka Amiri
>> Bernstein Charles
>> Berry Wendell
>> Bidart Frank
>> Blaser Robin
>> Bly Robert
>> Brock-Broido Lucie
>> Broumas Olga
>> Carruth Hayden
>> Clifton Lucille
>> Collins Billy
>> Cordrescu Andre
>> DiPrima Diane
>> Dobyns Stephen
>> Doty Mark
>> Dove Rita
>> Dunn Stephen
>> Edson Russell
>> Ferlinghetti Lawrence
>> Forche Carolyn
>> Fulton Alice
>> Gallagher Tess
>> Gilbert Jack
>> Gioia Dana
>> Giovanni Niki
>> Gl?ck Louise
>> Goldbarth  Albert
>> Graham Jorie
>> Gregg Linda
>> Hacker Marilyn
>> Hall Donald
>> Harjo Joy
>> Harper Michael S.
>> Harryman Carla
>> Hass Robert
>> Hejinian Lyn
>> Hillman Brenda
>> Hirsch Edward
>> Hirschfield Jane
>> Hollander John
>> Holman Bob
>> Howard Richard
>> Howe Susan
>> Inez Collete
>> Kinnell Galway
>> Kizer Carolyn
>> Komunyakaa Yusef
>> Kumin Maxime
>> Kunitz Stanley
>> Lauterbach Ann
>> Lee Li-Young
>> Lehman David
>> Levine Philip
>> Lux Thomas
>> Mackey Nathanial
>> McClatchy J. D.
>> McHugh Heather
>> Merwin W. S.
>> Mueller Lisel
>> Mullen Harryette
>> Olds Sharon
>> Oliver Mary
>> Pastan Linda
>> Peacock Molly
>> Perlman Bob
>> Piercy Marge
>> Pinsky Robert
>> Revell Donald
>> Rich Adrienne
>> Rogers Pattiann
>> Sanchez Sonia
>> Silliman Ron
>> Simic Charles
>> Simpson Louis
>> Smith Dave
>> Smith Patricia
>> Snodgrass W.D.
>> Snyder Gary
>> St. John David
>> Stern Gerald
>> Strand Mark
>> Tate James
>> Troupe Quincy
>> Valentine Jean
>> Voigt Ellen Bryant
>> Walcott Derek
>> Waldman Anne
>> Wilbur Richard
>> Williams C. K.
>> Wright C. D.
>> Wright Charles
>> Wright Franz
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! 
>> - http://mail.aol.com
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From blacksox  Thu Nov 22 05:07:03 2007
From: blacksox (blacksox at att.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:07:03 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] The A-List
Message-ID: <112220071007.566.474554C700073FB70000023622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>

When putting together a list of this nature I question what are the qualifications?

If it's sales alone-and noteriety all on the list belong there.
Now if we try to put together a list of those that have worked in relative obscurity, but might have done more to advance poetics into more varied forms.
There are several names on the A-list that belong on the obscure list also.

Four poets  I think might belong on both lists that were missing.
John Berryman
Norman Dubie
Theodore Enslin
Loren Keller
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 22 07:47:09 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:47:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47450D76.8060003@myuw.net>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>
	<47450D76.8060003@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <47457A4D.1000205@nut-n-but.net>



Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> I prefer agendas that are clear and out in the open. It's the agendas 
> of things like the original list which go largely unnoticed that i 
> find unsettling.
But, Jason, the original list neutrally recorded the names of the 100 
most visible American Poets (in James's view).  I don't smell an 
agenda.  Each reader of the list is free to make of it what he will--I 
as strong evidence of the importance of conformity for visibility, 
others as strong evidence that there are only three kinds of valuable 
poetry, Iowa Plaintext, Formal and Language.  So what?

--Bob G.





From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 22 07:56:47 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:56:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>
	<005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>
Message-ID: <47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>



David Bircumshaw wrote:
> >I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem 
> to have an agenda.  Janet<
>  
> With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does /have/ 
> an agenda: it is 100 /North American/ poets you should know, and, 
> further, North American poets who have emerged from the late 1950's at 
> the earliest.

I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that James 
almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt know" rather 
than "names you are required to know."

--Bob G.
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From anny.ballardini  Thu Nov 22 08:11:08 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:11:08 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>
	<47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>

Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:
Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered 'American' by most. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know




  David Bircumshaw wrote: 
    >I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem to have an agenda.  Janet<

    With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does have an agenda: it is 100 North American poets you should know, and, further, North American poets who have emerged from the late 1950's at the earliest.

  I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that James almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt know" rather than "names you are required to know."

  --Bob G. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From halvard  Thu Nov 22 09:33:15 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 08:33:15 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <4745109D.6070608@myuw.net>
References: <8C9FAD3BE42E26C-2E8-9FDD@webmail-de06.sysops.aol.com>
	<4745109D.6070608@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <0509DF79-8C09-4348-8E7A-3C8BB6F17406@earthlink.net>

Hm, I memorized that Padgett poem too, Jason. The other poem
I've memorized is "Crickets" by Aram Saroyan.

Hal

Sal si puedes.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html





On Nov 21, 2007, at 11:16 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote:

> It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is  
> visible to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance  
> poetry, they don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or  
> Miguel Algarin. Tom Raworth, while not particularly visible on this  
> side of the atlantic, is more visible in Great Britain than I think  
> a number of the people on your list are. I'll withdraw the  
> suggestion though and in his place offer Jim Carroll: the only  
> living american poet of import to have penned a alternative rock  
> anthem; one that still gets airplay on independent "underground" and  
> alternative radio. Plus there was a movie about him, which is  
> something you can't say about Jorie Graham, thank Christ. I didn't  
> notice this was an american list. As for anthologies, I think it  
> depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for sure, but  
> I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg have  
> more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and  
> translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm  
> Berrigan, aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New  
> York School also is still the director of the Poetry Project at St.  
> Mark's Place, which as far as I know is the longest running spoken  
> word series on the east coast.
>
> As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure and  
> is maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few  
> poets I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more  
> anthologies that he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is  
> in. But then, I don't generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So  
> yeah, I guess he can go too. Still, i think he's a poet everyone  
> should know.
>
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> Nothing in that drawer
> ~Ron Padgett "Nothing In That Drawer"
>
> yrs,
> JQ
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>> I can see Alice Notley bumping onto the list...but my list is based  
>> on 'visibility' (which I'd loosely define as appearing on
>> contents pages of major anthologies, media mentions, book reviews,  
>> public readings, etc.) and I'd be surprised if some
>> of your other replacements, worthy as they may be, could bump a  
>> Gioia or a Jorie, a Dove or an Angelou, etc.
>> Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small  
>> house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
>> criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered  
>> 'American' by most. Finnegan
>>    it's a good list there are a few people you left off that i would
>>    definitely have replaced Rita Dove, Billy Collins, and Ai  
>> with.          Actually here are my substitutions           
>> Include:          Padgett Ron     Notley Alice     Berrigan  
>> Anselm     Eshleman Clayton     Rothernberg Jerome     Algarin  
>> Miguel     Wakefield Buddy     Raworth Tom          in turn  
>> remove:     Ai     Angelou Maya     Dove Rita     Giovanni  
>> Nikki     Gioia Dana     Graham Jorie     Levine Phillip     Lee Li  
>> Young
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL  
>> Mail <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970 
>> >!
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 22 11:08:18 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:08:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The A-List
In-Reply-To: <112220071007.566.474554C700073FB70000023622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
References: <112220071007.566.474554C700073FB70000023622230703729B0A02D29B9B0EBF98019C050C0E040D@att.net>
Message-ID: <4745A972.3060802@opus40.org>

I think they had to be living.

blacksox at att.net wrote:
> When putting together a list of this nature I question what are the 
> qualifications?
>  
> If it's sales alone-and noteriety all on the list belong there.
> Now if we try to put together a list of those that have worked in 
> relative obscurity, but might have done more to advance poetics into 
> more varied forms.
> There are several names on the A-list that belong on the obscure list 
> also.
>  
> Four poets  I think might belong on both lists that were missing.
> John Berryman
> Norman Dubie
> Theodore Enslin
> Loren Keller
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From faustina1  Thu Nov 22 11:11:38 2007
From: faustina1 (faustina1 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:11:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>	<47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <8C9FB397F1F2DB7-9AC-2446@webmail-me06.sysops.aol.com>

Actually I thought I was responding on another list--but since I am in, I will go on with it...of course every list of everything has an agenda or selection principle, but I meant that this original list did not seem to be promoting a particular school or group.? Frinstance, I like the idea that Sharon Olds and Rae Armentrout are both on it--can not imagine that many readers eagerly awaiting books of both.? Hope I am wrong though.? Janet


-----Original Message-----
From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
Bcc: faustina1 at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 7:11 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know



Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:

Say it?ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small house in upstate New York. But, yes two?list
criteria are living and?U.S. based?long enough to be considered 'American' by most.?



----- Original Message ----- 

From: Bob Grumman 

To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 

Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:56 PM

Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know





David Bircumshaw wrote: 

>I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem to have an agenda.? Janet<

?

With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does have an agenda: it is 100 North American poets you should know, and, further, North American poets who have emerged from the late 1950's at the earliest.


I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that James almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt know" rather than "names you are required to know."

--Bob G. 



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 22 11:15:30 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:15:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>	<005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>
	<47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4745AB22.7010205@opus40.org>

Given that Jim perhaps should have said "North American poets" or "US 
poets" (though this might have been clear from the list itself) how many 
poets who came to prominence in the 40s or early 50s are still alive? 
Hayden Carruth is on the list. So is Gerald Stern. Are there any others?

Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>
> David Bircumshaw wrote:
>> >I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem 
>> to have an agenda.  Janet<
>>  
>> With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does 
>> /have/ an agenda: it is 100 /North American/ poets you should know, 
>> and, further, North American poets who have emerged from the late 
>> 1950's at the earliest.
>
> I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that 
> James almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt know" 
> rather than "names you are required to know."
>
> --Bob G.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 22 11:17:18 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:17:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>	<47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <4745AB8E.4020308@opus40.org>

Carruth listed in Wikipedia and Poets.org as still alive.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:
> Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small 
> house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
> criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered 
> 'American' by most. 
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Bob Grumman <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
>     *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>     <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:56 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>
>
>
>     David Bircumshaw wrote:
>>     >I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not
>>     seem to have an agenda.  Janet<
>>      
>>     With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does
>>     /have/ an agenda: it is 100 /North American/ poets you should
>>     know, and, further, North American poets who have emerged from
>>     the late 1950's at the earliest.
>
>     I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that
>     James almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt
>     know" rather than "names you are required to know."
>
>     --Bob G.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From JforJames  Thu Nov 22 12:59:34 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:59:34 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
Message-ID: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com>

 
Certainly the list is subjective, an visibilty is based on one line of  
sight. The list is an invitation, for those so moved, to suggest and lobby for  
other choices, as you have. Also, 100 is an arbitrary round number. Could  easily 
balloon to 105, 1120,,,
 
 I think my choices of Bob Holman and Patricia Smith are good ones for  the 
performance vein of American poetry. Wakefield has flown under my  radar; but 
Algarin makes sense to me. Berrigan, Eshleman, Rothenberg, Padgett,  all good 
choices for the Jason 100.
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
jfq at myuw.net writes:

It's an  interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is visible 
to whom? If  you're talking about contemporary performance poetry, they 
don't get much  more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel Algarin. Tom 
Raworth, while  not particularly visible on this side of the atlantic, is 
more visible in  Great Britain than I think a number of the people on 
your list are. I'll  withdraw the suggestion though and in his place 
offer Jim Carroll: the  only living american poet of import to have 
penned a alternative rock  anthem; one that still gets airplay on 
independent "underground" and  alternative radio. Plus there was a movie 
about him, which is something  you can't say about Jorie Graham, thank 
Christ. I didn't notice this was  an american list. As for anthologies, I 
think it depends on whose  anthologies you read. I don't know for sure, 
but I'd be willing to bet  Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg have 
more anthologies between them,  both as editors and as poets and 
translators than a good portion of your  list combined. Anselm Berrigan, 
aside from being brilliant and a blood  heir to the New York School also 
is still the director of the Poetry  Project at St. Mark's Place, which 
as far as I know is the longest running  spoken word series on the east 
coast.

As for Ron Padgett, true,  he's maybe not the most visible figure and is 
maybe an emotional choice.  but nevertheless he's one of the few poets 
I've ever memorized, and I  think I probably own more anthologies that 
he's in than I do anthologies  that Maya Angelou is in. But then, I don't 
generally buy THOSE kind of  anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can go too. 
Still, i think he's a poet  everyone should know.

Nothing in that drawer


 



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
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From elemenope_productions  Thu Nov 22 13:07:24 2007
From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:07:24 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Merwin at 80
In-Reply-To: <200711220337.lAM3bP5G001556@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711220337.lAM3bP5G001556@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU103-W47DFFF76E7526A708B433690790@phx.gbl>


I spoke with Merwin last winter after a reading.  He was
willing to discuss the infamous encounter with Trungpa
in 1975 at the Buddhist retreat in the Rocky Mountains.
I went away from the discussion cognizant of the fact that
this man has gone on to write brilliantly.  At the time,
the event was huge in the imagination
of the literary world.  Now, it is nearly nothing.
 
Also, it is useful to note that Merwin was born
and grew up in a small Pennsylvania town, southeast of
Lake Erie, north of Pittsburgh.  He now lives in Hawaii.
I believe he stilll maintains, or up until recently maintained,
a small hazlenut farm in France.
 
Nothing succeeds like success.  Here is a man who lives
almost entirely in and by means of his imagination.
He is a member of no academic faculty.  His has had
not only a second act, but a third , and fourth act in 
American life.  But he dosen't seem at all American.
His livelihood is secured by the sale of his books in the free market.
 
He wore that cold night what I would call a French cowboy hat.
 
I am nearly certain that I have read certan poems of his
that lifted the essential aesthetic conceptions
of poems I published.  For instance, I have spoken with him
about flying saucers.  The next thing I know,
I pick up a copy of the New Yorker and sure enough
there is a poem written in one long run on sentence
evoking the mystery of a floating disc lambent
in Thanksgiving afternoon mist encountered
over a file of pine trees
while your family is back there in the house
laughing in uproar about something someone did long ago.
 
 
Richard Dillon
_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 22 14:51:04 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:51:04 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>

It would be interesting to compare this list to one of the most visible 
living American poets of 1950. The best ten on that list, I claim, would 
be at least two orders of magnitude better than the ten best on James's 
list.  But they would not be superior to the best ten contemporary 
poets, whoever they are.  (All I'm sure of is that none is on James's list.)

--Bob G.

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> Certainly the list is subjective, an visibilty is based on one line of 
> sight. The list is an invitation, for those so moved, to suggest and 
> lobby for other choices, as you have. Also, 100 is an arbitrary round 
> number. Could easily balloon to 105, 1120,,,
>  
>  I think my choices of Bob Holman and Patricia Smith are good ones for 
> the performance vein of American poetry. Wakefield has flown under my 
> radar; but Algarin makes sense to me. Berrigan, Eshleman, Rothenberg, 
> Padgett, all good choices for the Jason 100.
> Finnegan
>  
> In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> jfq at myuw.net writes:
>
>     It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is
>     visible
>     to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance poetry,
>     they
>     don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel
>     Algarin. Tom
>     Raworth, while not particularly visible on this side of the
>     atlantic, is
>     more visible in Great Britain than I think a number of the people on
>     your list are. I'll withdraw the suggestion though and in his place
>     offer Jim Carroll: the only living american poet of import to have
>     penned a alternative rock anthem; one that still gets airplay on
>     independent "underground" and alternative radio. Plus there was a
>     movie
>     about him, which is something you can't say about Jorie Graham, thank
>     Christ. I didn't notice this was an american list. As for
>     anthologies, I
>     think it depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for
>     sure,
>     but I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg have
>     more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and
>     translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm
>     Berrigan,
>     aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New York School
>     also
>     is still the director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Place,
>     which
>     as far as I know is the longest running spoken word series on the
>     east
>     coast.
>
>     As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure
>     and is
>     maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few poets
>     I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more anthologies that
>     he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is in. But then, I
>     don't
>     generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can
>     go too.
>     Still, i think he's a poet everyone should know.
>
>     Nothing in that drawer
>
>  
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
> and top money wasters 
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
> of 2007.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From david.bircumshaw  Thu Nov 22 16:56:52 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:56:52 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>

>----- Original Message ----- 
From: Anny Ballardini 
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:
Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered 'American' by most. <

That bit flew fast past my specs, Anny (smile)

Best

Dave

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


  Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:
  Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
  criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered 'American' by most. 

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Bob Grumman 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
    Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:56 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know




    David Bircumshaw wrote: 
      >I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not seem to have an agenda.  Janet<

      With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly does have an agenda: it is 100 North American poets you should know, and, further, North American poets who have emerged from the late 1950's at the earliest.

    I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that James almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt know" rather than "names you are required to know."

    --Bob G. 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 22 20:18:07 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:18:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com> <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <47462A4F.2060409@opus40.org>

Frost would be at the top of that list. Pound, Eliot, Williams, Stevens. 
Behind them Warren, Tate, Lowell, Bishop (not John Peale), Schwartz, 
Rexroth, Patchen...whoops, that's twelve. Jarrell. For recognition, 
you'd have to include the great light versifiers like Nash, Parker, 
Armour. Stephen Vincent Benet, although John Brown's Body was still a 
couple of years away from Broadway. MacLeish hadn't made Broadway yet, 
but he'd be up there. Jeffers. He'd crack the top ten. cummings of 
course. I know I'm missing obvious ones. Millay died in 1950, but if the 
list were made early in the year she'd still qualify,

Normally I'd say it's unfair to compare people who've stood the test of 
time with people who haven't had a chance to stand it yet, but in this 
case I'd have to agree with Bob.

However, I do have a book published in 1900 which names the most 
important American writers of the 19th Century. Not on the list - Twain, 
Melville, Whitman, Dickinson, Crane, Poe.



Bob Grumman wrote:
> It would be interesting to compare this list to one of the most 
> visible living American poets of 1950. The best ten on that list, I 
> claim, would be at least two orders of magnitude better than the ten 
> best on James's list.  But they would not be superior to the best ten 
> contemporary poets, whoever they are.  (All I'm sure of is that none 
> is on James's list.)
>
> --Bob G.
>
> JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>> Certainly the list is subjective, an visibilty is based on one line 
>> of sight. The list is an invitation, for those so moved, to suggest 
>> and lobby for other choices, as you have. Also, 100 is an arbitrary 
>> round number. Could easily balloon to 105, 1120,,,
>>  
>>  I think my choices of Bob Holman and Patricia Smith are good ones 
>> for the performance vein of American poetry. Wakefield has 
>> flown under my radar; but Algarin makes sense to me. Berrigan, 
>> Eshleman, Rothenberg, Padgett, all good choices for the Jason 100.
>> Finnegan
>>  
>> In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> jfq at myuw.net writes:
>>
>>     It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is
>>     visible
>>     to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance poetry,
>>     they
>>     don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel
>>     Algarin. Tom
>>     Raworth, while not particularly visible on this side of the
>>     atlantic, is
>>     more visible in Great Britain than I think a number of the people on
>>     your list are. I'll withdraw the suggestion though and in his place
>>     offer Jim Carroll: the only living american poet of import to have
>>     penned a alternative rock anthem; one that still gets airplay on
>>     independent "underground" and alternative radio. Plus there was a
>>     movie
>>     about him, which is something you can't say about Jorie Graham,
>>     thank
>>     Christ. I didn't notice this was an american list. As for
>>     anthologies, I
>>     think it depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for
>>     sure,
>>     but I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg
>>     have
>>     more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and
>>     translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm
>>     Berrigan,
>>     aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New York
>>     School also
>>     is still the director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Place,
>>     which
>>     as far as I know is the longest running spoken word series on the
>>     east
>>     coast.
>>
>>     As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure
>>     and is
>>     maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few
>>     poets
>>     I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more anthologies
>>     that
>>     he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is in. But then,
>>     I don't
>>     generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can
>>     go too.
>>     Still, i think he's a poet everyone should know.
>>
>>     Nothing in that drawer
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
>> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
>> and top money wasters 
>> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
>> of 2007.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From david.bircumshaw  Fri Nov 23 07:15:31 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:15:31 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com> <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
	<47462A4F.2060409@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <000a01c82dca$8bf0d8c0$23c60556@windows>

Some might, and there again some might not, find amusement in:

Happy Thanksgiving 
http://www.blazevox.org/thanks.htm

Thanksgiving Dinner Poem 2007 : Ron Silliman, Guest of Honor 



Best

Dave







From jfq  Fri Nov 23 12:57:37 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:57:37 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47457A4D.1000205@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>	<47450D76.8060003@myuw.net>
	<47457A4D.1000205@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <47471491.9020100@myuw.net>

Any process of selection by some standard which includes some and 
excludes others has an agenda, and in this case i think it's revealed in 
the list title. These are poets you should know. Should being a 
normative, imperative statement used in isolation from any reasons other 
than the body of the list, we have to assume that it is the list itself 
which is justifying the deontodynamic nature that is being claimed by 
its title. So we know that these poets are alive, they are "american" 
and they are visible and are chosen for their visibility. So that's 
valuing the criteria of visibility, and it follows from that that it's 
agenda is to implicitly advance whatever it is that the folks on this 
list have in common by means of which they have become more visible than 
the folks off the list.

Any list like this has an agenda, like I said, and I don't really have 
trouble with that. It's that the agenda is implicit rather than explicit 
that i don't like. but then I like Jim Finnegan fine and i truly believe 
he's someone who cares deeply for the art of poetry and does what he 
does to try to be a benefit for that, so I'm not particularly sweating it.

Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>
> Jason Quackenbush wrote:
>> I prefer agendas that are clear and out in the open. It's the agendas 
>> of things like the original list which go largely unnoticed that i 
>> find unsettling.
> But, Jason, the original list neutrally recorded the names of the 100 
> most visible American Poets (in James's view).  I don't smell an 
> agenda.  Each reader of the list is free to make of it what he will--I 
> as strong evidence of the importance of conformity for visibility, 
> others as strong evidence that there are only three kinds of valuable 
> poetry, Iowa Plaintext, Formal and Language.  So what?
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From AlMaginnes  Fri Nov 23 13:17:27 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:17:27 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
Message-ID: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>

I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know about  
instead of the tried and true. 



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
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From bobgrumman  Fri Nov 23 13:42:37 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:42:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47471491.9020100@myuw.net>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>	<47450D76.8060003@myuw.net><47457A4D.1000205@nut-n-but.net>
	<47471491.9020100@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <47471F1D.6090007@nut-n-but.net>



Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> Any process of selection by some standard which includes some and 
> excludes others has an agenda, and in this case i think it's revealed 
> in the list title.
Jason, as I said, apparently in another post, the title probably meant 
that the list was of poets whose names we would likely know.  All lists 
include and exclude, but it's silly to say they have agendas because of 
that.  For me, to have an agenda means to desire to convert people to 
some point of view.  Jim's list doesn't seem at all intended to do 
that.  What about a list of the one hundred cities in American with the 
highest populations--what's its agenda? 

But, like you, I don't care whether the list has an agenda or not. 

--Bob
> These are poets you should know. Should being a normative, imperative 
> statement used in isolation from any reasons other than the body of 
> the list, we have to assume that it is the list itself which is 
> justifying the deontodynamic nature that is being claimed by its 
> title. So we know that these poets are alive, they are "american" and 
> they are visible and are chosen for their visibility. So that's 
> valuing the criteria of visibility, and it follows from that that it's 
> agenda is to implicitly advance whatever it is that the folks on this 
> list have in common by means of which they have become more visible 
> than the folks off the list.
>
> Any list like this has an agenda, like I said, and I don't really have 
> trouble with that. It's that the agenda is implicit rather than 
> explicit that i don't like. but then I like Jim Finnegan fine and i 
> truly believe he's someone who cares deeply for the art of poetry and 
> does what he does to try to be a benefit for that, so I'm not 
> particularly sweating it.
>
> Bob Grumman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jason Quackenbush wrote:
>>> I prefer agendas that are clear and out in the open. It's the 
>>> agendas of things like the original list which go largely unnoticed 
>>> that i find unsettling.
>> But, Jason, the original list neutrally recorded the names of the 100 
>> most visible American Poets (in James's view).  I don't smell an 
>> agenda.  Each reader of the list is free to make of it what he 
>> will--I as strong evidence of the importance of conformity for 
>> visibility, others as strong evidence that there are only three kinds 
>> of valuable poetry, Iowa Plaintext, Formal and Language.  So what?
>>
>> --Bob G.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>




From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 23 13:51:54 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:51:54 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007d01c82e01$eacd0990$45a93452@ANNY>

    tried and true
  a ruffle of d?j? vu
  rueful tire spinning wild
  ah rue of ruinous rules
  rum-dum rummage
  in trite ruthless tracks
  by fast Ulyssian turrets
  tussled astray as trulls
  by my troth
    true and tired




----- Original Message ----- 
  From: AlMaginnes at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


  I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know about instead of the tried and true. 

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From jfq  Fri Nov 23 13:58:34 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:58:34 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <4745AB8E.4020308@opus40.org>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows>	<47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
	<4745AB8E.4020308@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <474722DA.3020101@myuw.net>

I could be wrong. My recollection is of hearing it from Tim Green, the 
editor of rattle, when we were talking about  putting an interview with 
Carruth in a collection of some sort. but it's  possible i misremember.  
i 'll shoot him an email  and find out.
 
TheOldMole wrote:
> Carruth listed in Wikipedia and Poets.org as still alive.
>
> Anny Ballardini wrote:
>> Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:
>> Say it ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small 
>> house in upstate New York. But, yes two list
>> criteria are living and U.S. based long enough to be considered 
>> 'American' by most.
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Bob Grumman <mailto:bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
>>     *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>>     <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:56 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>>
>>
>>
>>     David Bircumshaw wrote:
>>>     >I must say I like the original list--partly because it does not
>>>     seem to have an agenda.  Janet<
>>>          With respect (and a friendly demeanor) this list certainly 
>>> does
>>>     /have/ an agenda: it is 100 /North American/ poets you should
>>>     know, and, further, North American poets who have emerged from
>>>     the late 1950's at the earliest.
>>
>>     I thought about that when I saw the title, but then realized that
>>     James almost surely meant "poets whose names you will no doubt
>>     know" rather than "names you are required to know."
>>
>>     --Bob G.
>>
>>     
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New-Poetry mailing list
>>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
>




From jfq  Fri Nov 23 14:20:23 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:20:23 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Buddy Wakefiled was 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com>
Message-ID: <474727F7.8050002@myuw.net>

Well if he's flown under your radar then let that stop now:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EweFcBdD1zo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tIr4pL9P0SA&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zL0y2WR0wZs&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zL0y2WR0wZs&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3W1U_zotSFo

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> Certainly the list is subjective, an visibilty is based on one line of 
> sight. The list is an invitation, for those so moved, to suggest and 
> lobby for other choices, as you have. Also, 100 is an arbitrary round 
> number. Could easily balloon to 105, 1120,,,
>  
>  I think my choices of Bob Holman and Patricia Smith are good ones for 
> the performance vein of American poetry. Wakefield has flown under my 
> radar; but Algarin makes sense to me. Berrigan, Eshleman, Rothenberg, 
> Padgett, all good choices for the Jason 100.
> Finnegan
>  
> In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> jfq at myuw.net writes:
>
>     It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is
>     visible
>     to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance poetry,
>     they
>     don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel
>     Algarin. Tom
>     Raworth, while not particularly visible on this side of the
>     atlantic, is
>     more visible in Great Britain than I think a number of the people on
>     your list are. I'll withdraw the suggestion though and in his place
>     offer Jim Carroll: the only living american poet of import to have
>     penned a alternative rock anthem; one that still gets airplay on
>     independent "underground" and alternative radio. Plus there was a
>     movie
>     about him, which is something you can't say about Jorie Graham, thank
>     Christ. I didn't notice this was an american list. As for
>     anthologies, I
>     think it depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for
>     sure,
>     but I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg have
>     more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and
>     translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm
>     Berrigan,
>     aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New York School
>     also
>     is still the director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Place,
>     which
>     as far as I know is the longest running spoken word series on the
>     east
>     coast.
>
>     As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure
>     and is
>     maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few poets
>     I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more anthologies that
>     he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is in. But then, I
>     don't
>     generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can
>     go too.
>     Still, i think he's a poet everyone should know.
>
>     Nothing in that drawer
>
>  
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
> and top money wasters 
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
> of 2007.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From jforjames  Fri Nov 23 18:41:01 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:41:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY>
	<003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>
Message-ID: <8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>

Anyone have at the 100 International Poets You Should Know? Based on visibility (however subjectively
defined) and being alive. 
And it all gets kind of slippery when talking 'mericun poets...where does a Paul Muldoon
fit in at this point? Arguably an American poet after so many years of teaching at Princeton and now he's
the poetry editor of The New Yorker. Someone check that man's papers and see if he still hold an
Irish passport.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Bircumshaw <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 4:56 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know




>----- Original Message ----- 

From: Anny Ballardini 

To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 

Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:11 PM

Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know




Hi Dave, one of the prerequisites was also the following:

Say it?ain't so about Hayden...I thought he was hanging on in small house in upstate New York. But, yes two?list
criteria are living and?U.S. based?long enough to be considered 'American' by most.?<

?

That bit flew fast past my specs, Anny (smile)

?

Best

?

Dave



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From jforjames  Fri Nov 23 18:51:56 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 18:51:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>

Let's go, I'll start with an obscure favorite who I published about 10 years ago...
W. Loran Smith. Then I'll add a poet, and in the interests of full disclosure say
a friend also, David Clewell. And though she seems to spend more time on fiction
these, Teresa Svoboda.

That's three. 97 to go, Al.
Finnegan


-----Original Message-----
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know



I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know about instead of the tried and true. 




Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.



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From jforjames  Fri Nov 23 19:03:50 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:03:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Buddy Wakefiled was 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <474727F7.8050002@myuw.net>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com> <474727F7.8050002@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <8C9FC44A0A06616-A54-BE6@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>




I'll check these clips out. In?the performance I?eglected to mention Jimmy Santiago Baca, who was on my list, several times world heavyweight poetry champ, at the Taos Poetry Circus in the 1990s. Sekou Sundiata would surely have made my list, had he not passed on this past year.


Well if he's flown under your radar then let that stop now:?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EweFcBdD1zo?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tIr4pL9P0SA&feature=related?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zL0y2WR0wZs&feature=related?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zL0y2WR0wZs&feature=related?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3W1U_zotSFo?
?
JforJames at aol.com wrote:?



-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 2:20 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] Buddy Wakefiled was 100 Poets You Should Know


Well if he's flown under your radar then let that stop now:?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EweFcBdD1zo?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tIr4pL9P0SA&feature=related?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zL0y2WR0wZs&feature=related?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zL0y2WR0wZs&feature=related?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3W1U_zotSFo?
?
JforJames at aol.com wrote:?
> Certainly the list is subjective, an visibilty is based on one line of > sight. The list is an invitation, for those so moved, to suggest and > lobby for other choices, as you have. Also, 100 is an arbitrary round > number. Could easily balloon to 105, 1120,,,?
> > I think my choices of Bob Holman and Patricia Smith are good ones for > the performance vein of American poetry. Wakefield has flown under my > radar; but Algarin makes sense to me. Berrigan, Eshleman, Rothenberg, > Padgett, all good choices for the Jason 100.?
> Finnegan?
> > In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, > jfq at myuw.net writes:?
>?
> It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is?
> visible?
> to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance poetry,?
> they?
> don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel?
> Algarin. Tom?
> Raworth, while not particularly visible on this side of the?
> atlantic, is?
> more visible in Great Britain than I think a number of the people on?
> your list are. I'll withdraw the suggestion though and in his place?
> offer Jim Carroll: the only living american poet of import to have?
> penned a alternative rock anthem; one that still gets airplay on?
> independent "underground" and alternative radio. Plus there was a?
> movie?
> about him, which is something you can't say about Jorie Graham, thank?
> Christ. I didn't notice this was an american list. As for?
> anthologies, I?
> think it depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for?
> sure,?
> but I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg have?
> more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and?
> translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm?
> Berrigan,?
> aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New York School?
> also?
> is still the director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Place,?
> which?
> as far as I know is the longest running spoken word series on the?
> east?
> coast.?
>?
> As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure?
> and is?
> maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few poets?
> I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more anthologies that?
> he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is in. But then, I?
> don't?
> generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can?
> go too.?
> Still, i think he's a poet everyone should know.?
>?
> Nothing in that drawer?
>?
> >?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products > <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> > and top money wasters > <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> > of 2007.?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


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From bobgrumman  Fri Nov 23 19:29:36 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:29:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY><003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>
	<8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47477070.8010600@nut-n-but.net>

Jim, are you asking for 100 international poets a poet ought to make 
sure he knows (as in a physicist should know algebra), or about 100 
international poets a poet is likely to have heard of (as in you should 
know where Port Charlotte Middle School if you live on the corner of 
Hayworth and Midway--since it's less than a hundred yards from there)?  
There is a huge difference between the two.  Your previous list had so 
few poets I think any poet ought to make sure he knows that I was sure 
you had to mean the latter.  And you have been emphasizing visibility 
rather than quality, for the most part.

--Bob




From jforjames  Fri Nov 23 19:30:43 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:30:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] one of the truly essential poets
Message-ID: <8C9FC4861F8BD8C-A54-C7B@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>


http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/poetry/0,,2216060,00.html
Something burning


Nicholas Lezard hails the later work of one of the truly essential poets, John Ashbery 

Saturday November 24, 2007
The Guardian 


Notes from the Air: Selected Later Poems, by John Ashbery (Carcanet, ?12.95)
You may, on reading Ashbery's work, be reminded of John Cage's infuriating remark: "I have nothing to say and I am saying it, and that is poetry." Let me give you an example: the first stanza of Ashbery's poem "This Room". "The room I entered was a dream of this room. / Surely all those feet on the sofa were mine. / The oval portrait / of a dog was me at an early age. / Something shimmers, something is hushed up."



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From jforjames  Fri Nov 23 19:42:28 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:42:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47477070.8010600@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY><003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>	<8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
	<47477070.8010600@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8C9FC4A0668CB7E-A54-CBF@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>

Bob, the International list I suggested should try to avoid personal taste and sensibility, and try, as much as possible, to step back
and to survey what poets, for whatever reason, seem to be gathering the most attention in our times.??
That being said, I don't think this 'visible set' is?always mutually exclusive form the set of poets that really will
stand up over time. A net of hundred or so will surely have in it a few keepers.

For example, UK-centric, I'd put J.H.Prynne and Geoffrey Hill on my list of the International 100.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 7:29 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


Jim, are you asking for 100 international poets a poet ought to make sure he knows (as in a physicist should know algebra), or about 100 international poets a poet is likely to have heard of (as in you should know where Port Charlotte Middle School if you live on the corner of Hayworth and Midway--since it's less than a hundred yards from there)? There is a huge difference between the two. Your previous list had so few poets I think any poet ought to make sure he knows that I was sure you had to mean the latter. And you have been emphasizing visibility rather than quality, for the most part.?
?
--Bob?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


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From bobgrumman  Fri Nov 23 19:48:00 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:48:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474774C0.8020109@nut-n-but.net>

Here are ten for your list, Jim, each of whom is at least as important a 
poet as anyone on the original list: John M. Bennett, Crag Hill, Geof 
Huth, Carlos Luis, K.S. Ernst, Scott Helmes, Carol Stetser, Guy Beining, 
Karl Kempton, mIEKAL aND.  They aren't necessarily the best ten living  
American visual poets I know, just the first ten whose names occurred to 
me.  I'm too lazy to keep going, but I know I could list twenty more, 
none of whom is inferior as a poet to the majority of poets on the other 
list.  And that's sticking to poets whose forte is visual poetry.  There 
are many I consider at or near the level of these in other overlooked 
schools--such as what I'd call the Modern Haiku school of American 
haiku, because most of the best writers of conventional haiku are 
published in Modern Haiku.  And there are P. Inman, Clark Coolidge and 
other language poets.  Endwar and other infraverbal poets.  Alan 
Sondheim would have to be on the list.  I'm not sure what school he is 
most prominently in, but he's certainly prominent in several computer 
and computer-language schools, with several others I don't know much 
about.  I'm glad you put Bob Holman on your list, but there are a good 
many other important performance poets--and sound poets.  All these 
poets I've been mentioning are important for poetry because you can 
learn things from them you can't learn from the poets of the fifties and 
their current very visible imitators.  I wouldn't call Coolidge obscure, 
but most of the others are, certainly by Rita Dove/Billy Collins standards.

--Bob G.





From bobgrumman  Fri Nov 23 21:18:16 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:18:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FC4A0668CB7E-A54-CBF@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>
	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY><003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>
	<8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com><47477070.8010600@nut-n-but.net>
	<8C9FC4A0668CB7E-A54-CBF@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474789E8.6030504@nut-n-but.net>



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Bob, the International list I suggested should try to avoid personal 
> taste and sensibility, and try, as much as possible, to step back
> and to survey what poets, for whatever reason, seem to be gathering 
> the most attention in our times.  
> That being said, I don't think this 'visible set' is always mutually 
> exclusive form the set of poets that really will
> stand up over time. A net of hundred or so will surely have in it a 
> few keepers.

Agreed.  But why this "you should know?"  Why not just, "The 100 Most 
Recognized Names in American Poetry," and "The 100 Most Recognized Names 
in International Poetry?"  Although you'd have to add, "By NY Times 
standards" or something, to keep out pop song lyricists, rappers, and 
maybe some of the very well-known contra-genteel poets, cowboy poets, 
slam poets, etc.
>
> For example, UK-centric, I'd put J.H.Prynne and Geoffrey Hill on my 
> list of the International 100.
> Finnegan
What would really be great would be a list of poets a full-range critic 
should be familiar with, with the reason each should be familiar to the 
critic.  Why, for instance, is Ashbery "an essential poet?"  He sure 
isn't to me, though I know I've read some poems of his with enjoyment.  
I tend to think any critic or poet serious about poetry should have 
twenty or thirty good poets he reads because he enjoys them, and thirty 
or forty he goes to in order to further his knowledge of the craft.  I 
would hope there is overlap between the two groups.  I'm not too clear 
on all this.  I do know that  I have the collected poems of Wilbur and 
Larkin and read from them on occasion with enjoyment.  But I don't feel 
I ever learn anything, and would like to know what they do I wouldn't 
have learned from my extensive reading of Frost, or Hardy. 

To repeat myself yet again.

--Bob




From Opus40-01  Fri Nov 23 21:26:37 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:26:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>

Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful poet.

Donald Finkel -- my mentor, and should have been on the first list, but 
I kinow he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.

Me. And I don;'t even know the guy.



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Let's go, I'll start with an obscure favorite who I published about 10 
> years ago...
> W. Loran Smith. Then I'll add a poet, and in the interests of full 
> disclosure say
> a friend also, David Clewell. And though she seems to spend more time 
> on fiction
> these, Teresa Svoboda.
>
> That's three. 97 to go, Al.
> Finnegan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 1:17 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>
> I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know about 
> instead of the tried and true.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
> and top money wasters 
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
> of 2007.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From Opus40-01  Fri Nov 23 21:29:36 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:29:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FC4A0668CB7E-A54-CBF@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY><003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>	<8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>	<47477070.8010600@nut-n-but.net>
	<8C9FC4A0668CB7E-A54-CBF@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47478C90.5070409@opus40.org>

Geoffrey Hill

Andrew Motion

from the sublime to the ridiculous, but it starts the list.

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Bob, the International list I suggested should try to avoid personal 
> taste and sensibility, and try, as much as possible, to step back
> and to survey what poets, for whatever reason, seem to be gathering 
> the most attention in our times.  
> That being said, I don't think this 'visible set' is always mutually 
> exclusive form the set of poets that really will
> stand up over time. A net of hundred or so will surely have in it a 
> few keepers.
>
> For example, UK-centric, I'd put J.H.Prynne and Geoffrey Hill on my 
> list of the International 100.
> Finnegan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
> Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 7:29 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>
> Jim, are you asking for 100 international poets a poet ought to make 
> sure he knows (as in a physicist should know algebra), or about 100 
> international poets a poet is likely to have heard of (as in you 
> should know where Port Charlotte Middle School if you live on the 
> corner of Hayworth and Midway--since it's less than a hundred yards 
> from there)? There is a huge difference between the two. Your previous 
> list had so few poets I think any poet ought to make sure he knows 
> that I was sure you had to mean the latter. And you have been 
> emphasizing visibility rather than quality, for the most part. 
>  
> --Bob 
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
> New-Poetry mailing list 
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From grahamd  Sat Nov 24 00:34:52 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:34:52 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
	<47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <54B0D77C-5F8C-4FC5-A2DB-7940ABCFFC67@ripon.edu>


On Nov 23, 2007, at 8:26 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
> Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful  
> poet.
> ===========

Tad, I assume that's not the late Dennis Doherty of The Mamas & the  
Papas?  Any books out by your DD?

Personally I like the notion of plugging neglected or oughta-be- 
better-known poets more than I savor quibbling over how famous Bob  
Perelman, say, is as opposed to Dorianne Laux, Al Young, or Ron Koertge.

But that would be a real and challenging question to answer, if you  
wanted to get serious about it.  The fragmentation of poetry's  
audience today is a most notable feature, one that by definition is  
difficult even to describe accurately. Everyone seems to agree that  
there is no single figure looming Eliot-like over the scene today,  
but after that all bets are off.  It may be different in the UK, with  
its much smaller population as compared to the U.S., but in this  
country it often seems that there is no poetry scene, just a  
multitude of occasionally overlapping circles of affinity and influence.

For instance, I found it fascinating to note how many poets-- 
including many who are very well read in contemporary poetry--reacted  
to Ted Kooser's selection as Laureate by saying "Who's he?"  Well,  
among other things, at the time of his nomination he was someone with  
multiple books from a major university press going back decades; a  
poet richly praised in print by the current director of the National  
Endowment for the Arts; and someone who could be found in many  
leading journals and anthologies.  He was hardly an obscure figure,  
in other words.

Or perhaps we all are obscure, beyond a tiny handful of exceptions-- 
Billy Collins, John Ashbery, Adrienne Rich?

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================


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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 24 02:41:32 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 08:41:32 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] one of the truly essential poets
References: <8C9FC4861F8BD8C-A54-C7B@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003501c82e6d$6f2c8240$08ee064f@ANNY>

Don't know, but this quotation seems to me to make much sense, I can understand every word and picture the scene perfectly, don't you?
RE.:
"This Room". "The room I entered was a dream of this room. / Surely all those feet on the sofa were mine. / The oval portrait / of a dog was me at an early age. / Something shimmers, something is hushed up."
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:30 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] one of the truly essential poets


  http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/poetry/0,,2216060,00.html
  Something burning

  Nicholas Lezard hails the later work of one of the truly essential poets, John Ashbery 
  Saturday November 24, 2007
  The Guardian 

  Notes from the Air: Selected Later Poems, by John Ashbery (Carcanet, ?12.95)
  You may, on reading Ashbery's work, be reminded of John Cage's infuriating remark: "I have nothing to say and I am saying it, and that is poetry." Let me give you an example: the first stanza of Ashbery's poem "This Room". "The room I entered was a dream of this room. / Surely all those feet on the sofa were mine. / The oval portrait / of a dog was me at an early age. / Something shimmers, something is hushed up."
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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 24 03:33:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:33:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy Birthday Laurence Sterne!
Message-ID: <006201c82e74$bc543b60$08ee064f@ANNY>

>From the Writer's Almanac:

It's the birthday of the novelist Laurence Sterne, (books by this author) born in Clonmel, Ireland (1713), who became a priest and supported himself and his wife by doing double duty in two different parishes, as well as substitute preaching at a third parish. He did all this preaching in spite the fact that privately he was agnostic. He knew he wanted to try writing fiction, but his friends kept telling him to put it off until he got promoted to higher office.

He finally decided he couldn't wait any more, and began to write his novel The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman (1760), a fictional autobiography in which the narrator is unable to tell his own story, because he's constantly sidetracked by various absurd digressions on all sorts of subjects. The book is also filled with black pages, excerpts of obscure theological debates, and a graphic representation of its own plotline. 

Sterne participated in all the details of Tristram Shandy's marketing campaign, even specifying the dimensions of the book to make sure it could fit into a gentleman's coat pocket. His efforts paid off and the book made him famous. Sterne's work influenced many writers of the 20th century, including James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, and Samuel Beckett. Author Italo Calvino said, "[Sterne] was the undoubted progenitor of all the avant-garde novels of our century." 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From david.bircumshaw  Sat Nov 24 03:34:44 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 08:34:44 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com><005401c82ccf$f08f8890$23c60556@windows><47457C8F.1090606@nut-n-but.net>	<005001c82d09$25c32240$048d3052@ANNY><003901c82d52$98bde890$23c60556@windows>	<8C9FC417067D7E6-6F4-51E0@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>	<47477070.8010600@nut-n-but.net><8C9FC4A0668CB7E-A54-CBF@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
	<47478C90.5070409@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <002f01c82e74$df0b6890$23c60556@windows>

> Geoffrey Hill
>
> Andrew Motion
>
> from the sublime to the ridiculous, but it starts the list.

Yeah, I'd be circumspect about following that latter direction: he's a kind
of significant cultural figure over here rather than a significant poet. But
as for lists, ah, well, deep breath:

Poets either living or more or less so with a substantial presence on the
global English radar:

Heaney (you have to let him in - he bores me often too); Walcott; Les Murray
(the very prolific, although the only collection of his I'd ever approach
enthusiasm about is 'Translations from the Natural World'); Ashbery, yes
(and he publishes far far too much); Muldoon (with marked reservations);
Hill ( with chilly admiration);

Poets on the edge of this group:

Prynne (and I can't make head or tail of much of his either); Edward Kamau
Braithwaite (the departed, I prefer his verve to Walcott's more sedate
rhythms); John Tranter (more as the editor of Jacket but also as the writer
of a small number of very fine poems); Peter Reading (maybe: although much
of work seems attitudinizing and sub-journalistic, technically he is
impressive,  and voluminous): Anne Carson ( a woman at last, and a
Canadian - those other North Americans - to boot); Bob Perelman (the
funniest of the 'Language' poets I've always thought); Denise Riley (?) - a
gamble this but the writer of a few poems of the first order; for long
service and loveability - W.S. Merwin and Edwin Morgan.

And then there are all those not on the radar but who should be, all those
many many.

Best

Dave



----- Original Message -----
From: "TheOldMole" <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know


> Geoffrey Hill
>
> Andrew Motion
>
> from the sublime to the ridiculous, but it starts the list.
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> > Bob, the International list I suggested should try to avoid personal
> > taste and sensibility, and try, as much as possible, to step back
> > and to survey what poets, for whatever reason, seem to be gathering
> > the most attention in our times.
> > That being said, I don't think this 'visible set' is always mutually
> > exclusive form the set of poets that really will
> > stand up over time. A net of hundred or so will surely have in it a
> > few keepers.
> >
> > For example, UK-centric, I'd put J.H.Prynne and Geoffrey Hill on my
> > list of the International 100.
> > Finnegan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
> > Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 7:29 pm
> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
> >
> > Jim, are you asking for 100 international poets a poet ought to make
> > sure he knows (as in a physicist should know algebra), or about 100
> > international poets a poet is likely to have heard of (as in you
> > should know where Port Charlotte Middle School if you live on the
> > corner of Hayworth and Midway--since it's less than a hundred yards
> > from there)? There is a huge difference between the two. Your previous
> > list had so few poets I think any poet ought to make sure he knows
> > that I was sure you had to mean the latter. And you have been
> > emphasizing visibility rather than quality, for the most part.
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
> >
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A
OLAOF00020000000970>!
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
> --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> "What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
> "Whaddya got?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From david.bircumshaw  Sat Nov 24 04:02:55 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:02:55 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com><8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com><47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
	<54B0D77C-5F8C-4FC5-A2DB-7940ABCFFC67@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <003d01c82e78$ce6aad30$23c60556@windows>

And a little more:

really, any such lists cry out for disagreement, alteration, doubt.

I could say, for example, that of the poets I tentatively hoisted previously that the ones who have written work that I markedly like, rather than respect, would strongly feature Edwin Morgan, Denise Riley, Anne Carson and in one volume alone Les Murray and in a few poems only John Tranter. And Bob Perelman can be brilliant. A poet who can be brilliant but leaves me (pace James on Conrad) with a 'rather disagreeable impression': Peter Reading.

A poet I like who is both well-known and marginal (and too US American!) from the list that began this thread:

Russell Edson. Although that again is in quite a small proportion of his oeuvre, read in bulk his mannerisms and dodges can be repetitive. And sometimes skimpy.

A deceased near-recent poet who wrote one volume I love: W.S.Graham ('Malcolm Mooney's Land', especially the title poem)

A hit-and-miss poet not well-known (although published by Carcanet) who can sometimes verge on 'greatness' (whatever that is): Michael Haslam.

And a loveable veteran (at least, I think he's still about) I forgot to mention: Charles Tomlinson (who was at one time quite well-received in the States)

Best

Dave



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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 24 07:26:26 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:26:26 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] TED talk by Ken Robinson
Message-ID: <00f801c82e95$3bf20260$08ee064f@ANNY>

An extraordinary talk by Ken Robinson on education:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66



Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 24 08:36:54 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:36:54 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com><8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
	<474774C0.8020109@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <011e01c82e9f$14242510$08ee064f@ANNY>

I agree on much of what you are saying. I also appreciate the fact that you 
mention Alan Sondheim, I am a supporter of his work.

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:48 AM


> Here are ten for your list, Jim, each of whom is at least as important a 
> poet as anyone on the original list: John M. Bennett, Crag Hill, Geof 
> Huth, Carlos Luis, K.S. Ernst, Scott Helmes, Carol Stetser, Guy Beining, 
> Karl Kempton, mIEKAL aND.  They aren't necessarily the best ten living 
> American visual poets I know, just the first ten whose names occurred to 
> me.  I'm too lazy to keep going, but I know I could list twenty more, none 
> of whom is inferior as a poet to the majority of poets on the other list. 
> And that's sticking to poets whose forte is visual poetry.  There are many 
> I consider at or near the level of these in other overlooked schools--such 
> as what I'd call the Modern Haiku school of American haiku, because most 
> of the best writers of conventional haiku are published in Modern Haiku. 
> And there are P. Inman, Clark Coolidge and other language poets.  Endwar 
> and other infraverbal poets.  Alan Sondheim would have to be on the list. 
> I'm not sure what school he is most prominently in, but he's certainly 
> prominent in several computer and computer-language schools, with several 
> others I don't know much about.  I'm glad you put Bob Holman on your list, 
> but there are a good many other important performance poets--and sound 
> poets.  All these poets I've been mentioning are important for poetry 
> because you can learn things from them you can't learn from the poets of 
> the fifties and their current very visible imitators.  I wouldn't call 
> Coolidge obscure, but most of the others are, certainly by Rita Dove/Billy 
> Collins standards.
>
> --Bob G.
>




From Opus40-01  Sat Nov 24 09:13:19 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:13:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <54B0D77C-5F8C-4FC5-A2DB-7940ABCFFC67@ripon.edu>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>	<47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
	<54B0D77C-5F8C-4FC5-A2DB-7940ABCFFC67@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4748317F.5010103@opus40.org>

Not the Papa. He's the head of Creative Writing and the Poetry Board at 
SUNY New Patlz, and in spite of that, a fine poet. His recent book is 
Fugitive, available from Amazom

http://www.amazon.com/Fugitive-Dennis-Doherty/dp/1930337302/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195912910&sr=8-1

or Codhill Press -- http://www.codhill.com/catalogs.html

Fitst book is The Bad Man, from Ye Olde Font Shoppe -- 
http://www.yeolde.org/ -- which also publishes me, if anyone would like 
to get a copy of Situations in hard cover -- or my forthcoming chapbook, 
Take Five: Poems in 5/;4 Time.



David Graham wrote:
>
> On Nov 23, 2007, at 8:26 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>> Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful poet.
>> ===========
>
> Tad, I assume that's not the late Dennis Doherty of The Mamas & the 
> Papas?  Any books out by your DD?
>
> Personally I like the notion of plugging neglected or 
> oughta-be-better-known poets more than I savor quibbling over how 
> famous Bob Perelman, say, is as opposed to Dorianne Laux, Al Young, or 
> Ron Koertge.  
>
> But that would be a real and challenging question to answer, if you 
> wanted to get serious about it.  The fragmentation of poetry's 
> audience today is a most notable feature, one that by definition is 
> difficult even to describe accurately. Everyone seems to agree that 
> there is no single figure looming Eliot-like over the scene today, but 
> after that all bets are off.  It may be different in the UK, with its 
> much smaller population as compared to the U.S., but in this country 
> it often seems that there is no poetry scene, just a multitude of 
> occasionally overlapping circles of affinity and influence.
>
> For instance, I found it fascinating to note how many poets--including 
> many who are very well read in contemporary poetry--reacted to Ted 
> Kooser's selection as Laureate by saying "Who's he?"  Well, among 
> other things, at the time of his nomination he was someone with 
> multiple books from a major university press going back decades; a 
> poet richly praised in print by the current director of the National 
> Endowment for the Arts; and someone who could be found in many leading 
> journals and anthologies.  He was hardly an obscure figure, in other 
> words.  
>
> Or perhaps we all are obscure, beyond a tiny handful of 
> exceptions--Billy Collins, John Ashbery, Adrienne Rich?
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From Opus40-01  Sat Nov 24 09:18:06 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:18:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <54B0D77C-5F8C-4FC5-A2DB-7940ABCFFC67@ripon.edu>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>	<47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
	<54B0D77C-5F8C-4FC5-A2DB-7940ABCFFC67@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4748329E.8030102@opus40.org>

<< The fragmentation of poetry's audience today is a most notable 
feature, one that by definition is difficult even to describe 
accurately. Everyone seems to agree that there is no single figure 
looming Eliot-like over the scene today, but after that all bets are off. >>

I wonder if there could be, given the powerful instinct of so many in 
the po-world to denigrate anyone who does make a more-than-liminal 
impact on public consciousness.

To the non-American Visible Poet list -- Eavann Boland.

Possihle nomination to the American Visible Poet list -- Bernadette Mayer.

For inclusion on David's Super-Visible Lust -- Donald Hall

David Graham wrote:
>
> On Nov 23, 2007, at 8:26 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>> Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful poet.
>> ===========
>
> Tad, I assume that's not the late Dennis Doherty of The Mamas & the 
> Papas?  Any books out by your DD?
>
> Personally I like the notion of plugging neglected or 
> oughta-be-better-known poets more than I savor quibbling over how 
> famous Bob Perelman, say, is as opposed to Dorianne Laux, Al Young, or 
> Ron Koertge.  
>
> But that would be a real and challenging question to answer, if you 
> wanted to get serious about it.  The fragmentation of poetry's 
> audience today is a most notable feature, one that by definition is 
> difficult even to describe accurately. Everyone seems to agree that 
> there is no single figure looming Eliot-like over the scene today, but 
> after that all bets are off.  It may be different in the UK, with its 
> much smaller population as compared to the U.S., but in this country 
> it often seems that there is no poetry scene, just a multitude of 
> occasionally overlapping circles of affinity and influence.
>
> For instance, I found it fascinating to note how many poets--including 
> many who are very well read in contemporary poetry--reacted to Ted 
> Kooser's selection as Laureate by saying "Who's he?"  Well, among 
> other things, at the time of his nomination he was someone with 
> multiple books from a major university press going back decades; a 
> poet richly praised in print by the current director of the National 
> Endowment for the Arts; and someone who could be found in many leading 
> journals and anthologies.  He was hardly an obscure figure, in other 
> words.  
>
> Or perhaps we all are obscure, beyond a tiny handful of 
> exceptions--Billy Collins, John Ashbery, Adrienne Rich?
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From Opus40-01  Sat Nov 24 10:37:53 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:37:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update -- Situations and Film Noir
Message-ID: <47484551.1060400@opus40.org>

Episode 11 of Situations! All talking! All singing! All dancing! Well, 
all singing, anyway, as The Major sends out a message to Elizabeth. 
You?ll marvel at Blanche and Miles?s wedding night, and you?ll tremble 
with ill-concealed dread at the prospect of Bob working his evil 
machinations on Mad Dog.

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 
<http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67>

And check out a set of drawings that?s the beginning of a new series of 
works inspired by film noir at 
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/2007/11/film-noir.html

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 24 11:20:19 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:20:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] one of the truly essential poets
In-Reply-To: <003501c82e6d$6f2c8240$08ee064f@ANNY>
References: <8C9FC4861F8BD8C-A54-C7B@webmail-dd04.sysops.aol.com>
	<003501c82e6d$6f2c8240$08ee064f@ANNY>
Message-ID: <47484F43.4000405@nut-n-but.net>



Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Don't know, but this quotation seems to me to make much sense, I can 
> understand every word and picture the scene perfectly, don't you?
> RE.:
> "This Room". "The room I entered was a dream of this room. / Surely 
> all those feet on the sofa were mine. / The oval portrait / of a dog 
> was me at an early age. / Something shimmers, something is hushed up."
>
I'm afraid I find it a pretty straight-forward surrealistic description  
of a scene intended to convey a mood.  Pleasant enough but far from 
essential to know about.  Certain poets are gifted at being able to 
wander us into asides hushed to the brim with cats' anticipation of 
summer or the like, the smell of the rubber cement filling the dining 
room where the coat of yellow paint on the model of the Stutz Bearcat is 
drying, but it's really no big deal--just verbal collage.

--Bob
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From elemenope_productions  Sat Nov 24 14:08:32 2007
From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:08:32 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Little J.A. Among Some Trees
In-Reply-To: <200711241700.lAOH085G031798@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711241700.lAOH085G031798@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU103-W27A638564410601C6159C8907B0@phx.gbl>


A collage is a cut-up of disparate objects assembled to recreate
a coherent figure each part of which provides a comment on the whole.  Consider Richard Hamilton's collage of 1950's L.A. American suburban domesticity.   Ashbery assembles in this excerpt the subjectively experienced movie of himself as boy finding himself there in his living room, present to himself, self aware, as much as he ever will be at any place along the time line.  My first poem, "Start," provides an account of my preincarnation moment entering this thing.  Ashbery is a very smart, affable guy, quick on the uptake in public.  An Aries with a Wife of Bath muscle between his two front teeth.  Makes up stuff as he goes along surrounded by friends.  Sometimes he stares his eyes like two milkweed at strangers as he rides up the escalator at the COOP.
 
R.E.D.
_________________________________________________________________
Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.? Join in.
www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
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From jfq  Sat Nov 24 14:29:33 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:29:33 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com> <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <47487B9D.6010701@myuw.net>

I don't know about that. James agreed that Alice Notley probably belongs 
on his list and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better living 
poet. I've been absorbed with "In The Pines" for the last week or so, 
and I can't remember being this knocked out by a book of poetry by a 
living poet. And I don't know that there are many achievements among 
living poets that are more impressive than Silliman's The Alphabet.

What I think would be interesting would not be a list of the most 
visible poets, but something along the lines of what you suggested as 
what a critic should know. Some sort of list of what the requirements 
are for poetry literacy. I think that would be a much wider field that 
would have to include ancient and non-english language poets as well, 
but it might be an interesting criteria for a list of modern poets. Who 
then should someone be familiar with in contemporary poetry in order to 
be literate enough in poetry to be a critic of it? That I think is a 
very interesting question.


Bob Grumman wrote:
> It would be interesting to compare this list to one of the most 
> visible living American poets of 1950. The best ten on that list, I 
> claim, would be at least two orders of magnitude better than the ten 
> best on James's list.  But they would not be superior to the best ten 
> contemporary poets, whoever they are.  (All I'm sure of is that none 
> is on James's list.)
>
> --Bob G.
>
> JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>> Certainly the list is subjective, an visibilty is based on one line 
>> of sight. The list is an invitation, for those so moved, to suggest 
>> and lobby for other choices, as you have. Also, 100 is an arbitrary 
>> round number. Could easily balloon to 105, 1120,,,
>>  
>>  I think my choices of Bob Holman and Patricia Smith are good ones 
>> for the performance vein of American poetry. Wakefield has 
>> flown under my radar; but Algarin makes sense to me. Berrigan, 
>> Eshleman, Rothenberg, Padgett, all good choices for the Jason 100.
>> Finnegan
>>  
>> In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> jfq at myuw.net writes:
>>
>>     It's an interesting point. The question I'd like to ask you is
>>     visible
>>     to whom? If you're talking about contemporary performance poetry,
>>     they
>>     don't get much more visible than Buddy Wakefield or Miguel
>>     Algarin. Tom
>>     Raworth, while not particularly visible on this side of the
>>     atlantic, is
>>     more visible in Great Britain than I think a number of the people on
>>     your list are. I'll withdraw the suggestion though and in his place
>>     offer Jim Carroll: the only living american poet of import to have
>>     penned a alternative rock anthem; one that still gets airplay on
>>     independent "underground" and alternative radio. Plus there was a
>>     movie
>>     about him, which is something you can't say about Jorie Graham,
>>     thank
>>     Christ. I didn't notice this was an american list. As for
>>     anthologies, I
>>     think it depends on whose anthologies you read. I don't know for
>>     sure,
>>     but I'd be willing to bet Clayton Eshleman and Jerome Rothenberg
>>     have
>>     more anthologies between them, both as editors and as poets and
>>     translators than a good portion of your list combined. Anselm
>>     Berrigan,
>>     aside from being brilliant and a blood heir to the New York
>>     School also
>>     is still the director of the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Place,
>>     which
>>     as far as I know is the longest running spoken word series on the
>>     east
>>     coast.
>>
>>     As for Ron Padgett, true, he's maybe not the most visible figure
>>     and is
>>     maybe an emotional choice. but nevertheless he's one of the few
>>     poets
>>     I've ever memorized, and I think I probably own more anthologies
>>     that
>>     he's in than I do anthologies that Maya Angelou is in. But then,
>>     I don't
>>     generally buy THOSE kind of anthologies. So yeah, I guess he can
>>     go too.
>>     Still, i think he's a poet everyone should know.
>>
>>     Nothing in that drawer
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
>> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
>> and top money wasters 
>> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
>> of 2007.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From jfq  Sat Nov 24 14:34:00 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:34:00 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47471F1D.6090007@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8C9FACFEDBBB2C7-B4-6C88@FWM-M09.sysops.aol.com>	<47450D76.8060003@myuw.net><47457A4D.1000205@nut-n-but.net>	<47471491.9020100@myuw.net>
	<47471F1D.6090007@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <47487CA8.5030809@myuw.net>

I think maybe I'm using a less charged concept of agenda, but yeah, it 
doesn't matter.

Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>
> Jason Quackenbush wrote:
>> Any process of selection by some standard which includes some and 
>> excludes others has an agenda, and in this case i think it's revealed 
>> in the list title.
> Jason, as I said, apparently in another post, the title probably meant 
> that the list was of poets whose names we would likely know.  All 
> lists include and exclude, but it's silly to say they have agendas 
> because of that.  For me, to have an agenda means to desire to convert 
> people to some point of view.  Jim's list doesn't seem at all intended 
> to do that.  What about a list of the one hundred cities in American 
> with the highest populations--what's its agenda?
> But, like you, I don't care whether the list has an agenda or not.
> --Bob
>> These are poets you should know. Should being a normative, imperative 
>> statement used in isolation from any reasons other than the body of 
>> the list, we have to assume that it is the list itself which is 
>> justifying the deontodynamic nature that is being claimed by its 
>> title. So we know that these poets are alive, they are "american" and 
>> they are visible and are chosen for their visibility. So that's 
>> valuing the criteria of visibility, and it follows from that that 
>> it's agenda is to implicitly advance whatever it is that the folks on 
>> this list have in common by means of which they have become more 
>> visible than the folks off the list.
>>
>> Any list like this has an agenda, like I said, and I don't really 
>> have trouble with that. It's that the agenda is implicit rather than 
>> explicit that i don't like. but then I like Jim Finnegan fine and i 
>> truly believe he's someone who cares deeply for the art of poetry and 
>> does what he does to try to be a benefit for that, so I'm not 
>> particularly sweating it.
>>
>> Bob Grumman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Quackenbush wrote:
>>>> I prefer agendas that are clear and out in the open. It's the 
>>>> agendas of things like the original list which go largely unnoticed 
>>>> that i find unsettling.
>>> But, Jason, the original list neutrally recorded the names of the 
>>> 100 most visible American Poets (in James's view).  I don't smell an 
>>> agenda.  Each reader of the list is free to make of it what he 
>>> will--I as strong evidence of the importance of conformity for 
>>> visibility, others as strong evidence that there are only three 
>>> kinds of valuable poetry, Iowa Plaintext, Formal and Language.  So 
>>> what?
>>>
>>> --Bob G.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From jfq  Sat Nov 24 14:36:06 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:36:06 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>
	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47487D26.8020107@myuw.net>

Chelsea Minnis, Joe Massey, Anthony Robinson, Sam Cheuk, Mark Leidner

two of whom are friends, one of whom is an acquaintance, all of whom 
deserve to be widely read...

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Let's go, I'll start with an obscure favorite who I published about 10 
> years ago...
> W. Loran Smith. Then I'll add a poet, and in the interests of full 
> disclosure say
> a friend also, David Clewell. And though she seems to spend more time 
> on fiction
> these, Teresa Svoboda.
>
> That's three. 97 to go, Al.
> Finnegan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 1:17 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>
> I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know about 
> instead of the tried and true.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
> and top money wasters 
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
> of 2007.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From jfq  Sat Nov 24 14:41:52 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:41:52 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
	<47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <47487E80.9030306@myuw.net>

Well if we're going that route then i think everyone should be familiar 
with J F Quackenbush's oeuvre. As the foremost proponent of the 
postcontemporary lyrical mannerism school, there's a certain cache in 
knowing about him and at the same time, they don't get much more 
obscure. I'll be sure that i let the list know when his books are for 
sale so that that gap can be filled.

TheOldMole wrote:
> Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful poet.
>
> Donald Finkel -- my mentor, and should have been on the first list, 
> but I kinow he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
>
> Me. And I don;'t even know the guy.
>
>
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>> Let's go, I'll start with an obscure favorite who I published about 
>> 10 years ago...
>> W. Loran Smith. Then I'll add a poet, and in the interests of full 
>> disclosure say
>> a friend also, David Clewell. And though she seems to spend more time 
>> on fiction
>> these, Teresa Svoboda.
>>
>> That's three. 97 to go, Al.
>> Finnegan
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 1:17 pm
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>>
>> I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know 
>> about instead of the tried and true.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
>> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
>> and top money wasters 
>> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
>> of 2007.
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail 
>> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>! 
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
>




From jfq  Sat Nov 24 14:43:26 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:43:26 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <011e01c82e9f$14242510$08ee064f@ANNY>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com><8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>	<474774C0.8020109@nut-n-but.net>
	<011e01c82e9f$14242510$08ee064f@ANNY>
Message-ID: <47487EDE.2060703@myuw.net>

Indeed.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> I agree on much of what you are saying. I also appreciate the fact 
> that you mention Alan Sondheim, I am a supporter of his work.
>
> From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:48 AM
>
>
>> Here are ten for your list, Jim, each of whom is at least as 
>> important a poet as anyone on the original list: John M. Bennett, 
>> Crag Hill, Geof Huth, Carlos Luis, K.S. Ernst, Scott Helmes, Carol 
>> Stetser, Guy Beining, Karl Kempton, mIEKAL aND.  They aren't 
>> necessarily the best ten living American visual poets I know, just 
>> the first ten whose names occurred to me.  I'm too lazy to keep 
>> going, but I know I could list twenty more, none of whom is inferior 
>> as a poet to the majority of poets on the other list. And that's 
>> sticking to poets whose forte is visual poetry.  There are many I 
>> consider at or near the level of these in other overlooked 
>> schools--such as what I'd call the Modern Haiku school of American 
>> haiku, because most of the best writers of conventional haiku are 
>> published in Modern Haiku. And there are P. Inman, Clark Coolidge and 
>> other language poets.  Endwar and other infraverbal poets.  Alan 
>> Sondheim would have to be on the list. I'm not sure what school he is 
>> most prominently in, but he's certainly prominent in several computer 
>> and computer-language schools, with several others I don't know much 
>> about.  I'm glad you put Bob Holman on your list, but there are a 
>> good many other important performance poets--and sound poets.  All 
>> these poets I've been mentioning are important for poetry because you 
>> can learn things from them you can't learn from the poets of the 
>> fifties and their current very visible imitators.  I wouldn't call 
>> Coolidge obscure, but most of the others are, certainly by Rita 
>> Dove/Billy Collins standards.
>>
>> --Bob G.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From JforJames  Sat Nov 24 14:49:49 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:49:49 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Here, Poets Have Held Forth For Two Decades
Message-ID: <c95.1d62a054.3479da5d@aol.com>

_http://dailycamera.com/news/2007/nov/23/epic-poetry/_ 
(http://dailycamera.com/news/2007/nov/23/epic-poetry/) 
 
Epic poetry: Tom Peters' weekly poetry reading celebrates its 20th  
anniversary
By Vince Darcangelo (Contact)
Friday, November 23, 2007 
 
What "So, You're a Poet" 20th anniversary reading
 
Info 303-440-4628 or _www.thelaughinggoat.com_ 
(http://www.thelaughinggoat.com) 
 
Nothing out of the ordinary will happen at the Laughing Goat coffeehouse  
this Monday night. At 8 p.m. the venue will host the 1,040th consecutive  
installment of the weekly "So, You're a Poet" poetry reading. Tom Peters, the  
reading's founder and emcee, will take the stage, just as he has for the past  two 
decades, to introduce the readers.
 
No, it won't be anything out of the ordinary. But at the same time it will  
be something extraordinary. An unofficial world record, in  fact.




**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
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From alexdickow9  Sat Nov 24 15:31:19 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:31:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] poets we ought to know about
In-Reply-To: <200711241700.lAOH085G031798@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <284588.86857.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here are a few I think everyone should know about,
especially here: oddly, I'd say a fair number forget
we're among poets sometimes:
Tad Richards
Bob Grumman
Anny Ballardini
James Finnegan
James Cervantes
Halvard Johnson
Amy King
Jeff Newberry
Joseph Deumer
Jason Quackenbush
and others...
I'd add my own name, but I'd be a dwarf dodging the
razor-sharp tibia of giants.
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 24 15:54:50 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:54:50 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com><47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>
	<47487E80.9030306@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <004501c82edc$41de0010$697c3652@ANNY>

Lovely mail, I do hope you will notify us whenever it is most convenient to 
you, of the happy publication of future books by Monsieur J.F. Quackenbush.
Looking as forward as it is given to me to reading His notable poetry. As an 
aside, and begging for forgiveness for my ignorance, is said Poet a direct 
descendant of Quackers?
With my skyscraping regards,


From: "Jason Quackenbush" <jfq at myuw.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:41 PM


> Well if we're going that route then i think everyone should be familiar 
> with J F Quackenbush's oeuvre. As the foremost proponent of the 
> postcontemporary lyrical mannerism school, there's a certain cache in 
> knowing about him and at the same time, they don't get much more obscure. 
> I'll be sure that i let the list know when his books are for sale so that 
> that gap can be filled.
>
> TheOldMole wrote:
>> Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful poet.
>>
>> Donald Finkel -- my mentor, and should have been on the first list, but I 
>> kinow he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
>>
>> Me. And I don;'t even know the guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>>> Let's go, I'll start with an obscure favorite who I published about 10 
>>> years ago...
>>> W. Loran Smith. Then I'll add a poet, and in the interests of full 
>>> disclosure say
>>> a friend also, David Clewell. And though she seems to spend more time on 
>>> fiction
>>> these, Teresa Svoboda.
>>>
>>> That's three. 97 to go, Al.
>>> Finnegan
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com
>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 1:17 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>>>
>>> I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know about 
>>> instead of the tried and true.




From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 24 16:10:28 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:10:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47487B9D.6010701@myuw.net>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com> <4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
	<47487B9D.6010701@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <47489344.9040803@nut-n-but.net>



Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> I don't know about that. James agreed that Alice Notley probably 
> belongs on his list and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better 
> living poet.
I don't know here work well enough to argue that.  I never had the 
impression she was doing anything special in it, though.

> I've been absorbed with "In The Pines" for the last week or so, and I 
> can't remember being this knocked out by a book of poetry by a living 
> poet. And I don't know that there are many achievements among living 
> poets that are more impressive than Silliman's The Alphabet.
>
He may be one of the few who'd be on my list of most important 100 
living American poets, Jason--but, I'm curious (and not trying to score 
points or something): what is special about The Alphabet?  People whose 
opinion I respect greatly admire it, but I dunno. . . .

> What I think would be interesting would not be a list of the most 
> visible poets, but something along the lines of what you suggested as 
> what a critic should know. Some sort of list of what the requirements 
> are for poetry literacy. I think that would be a much wider field that 
> would have to include ancient and non-english language poets as well, 
> but it might be an interesting criteria for a list of modern poets. 
> Who then should someone be familiar with in contemporary poetry in 
> order to be literate enough in poetry to be a critic of it? That I 
> think is a very interesting question.
Right--literate enough in poetry to be a first-rate /general /critic of 
it.  As opposed to someone like William Logan whom I consider a 
first-rate critic, but only of a very narrow slice of the general 
scene.  Which, whaddya know, brings us back to the need for a decent 
full list of the viable schools of current American Poetry that I keep 
asking for help making, and get just about none.

--Bob
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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 24 16:15:54 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:15:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47487D26.8020107@myuw.net>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com><8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>
	<47487D26.8020107@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <4748948A.6000601@nut-n-but.net>



Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> Chelsea Minnis, Joe Massey, Anthony Robinson, Sam Cheuk, Mark Leidner
>
Chee, what ever happened to ol' Tony Robinson?  He used to be a regular 
here.

--Bob




From jfq  Sat Nov 24 20:23:17 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:23:17 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <004501c82edc$41de0010$697c3652@ANNY>
References: <d5f.18226de8.34787337@aol.com>	<8C9FC42F71B762B-6F4-5218@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com><47478BDD.1090608@opus40.org>	<47487E80.9030306@myuw.net>
	<004501c82edc$41de0010$697c3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <4748CE85.2060100@myuw.net>

No, Dutch Free Thinkers for the most part. But according to 
Ancestry.com, Geof Chaucer is his 13th great-grandfather.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
> Lovely mail, I do hope you will notify us whenever it is most 
> convenient to you, of the happy publication of future books by 
> Monsieur J.F. Quackenbush.
> Looking as forward as it is given to me to reading His notable poetry. 
> As an aside, and begging for forgiveness for my ignorance, is said 
> Poet a direct descendant of Quackers?
> With my skyscraping regards,
>
>
> From: "Jason Quackenbush" <jfq at myuw.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:41 PM
>
>
>> Well if we're going that route then i think everyone should be 
>> familiar with J F Quackenbush's oeuvre. As the foremost proponent of 
>> the postcontemporary lyrical mannerism school, there's a certain 
>> cache in knowing about him and at the same time, they don't get much 
>> more obscure. I'll be sure that i let the list know when his books 
>> are for sale so that that gap can be filled.
>>
>> TheOldMole wrote:
>>> Dennis Doherty -- full disclosure again, a friend, and a wonderful 
>>> poet.
>>>
>>> Donald Finkel -- my mentor, and should have been on the first list, 
>>> but I kinow he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
>>>
>>> Me. And I don;'t even know the guy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>>>> Let's go, I'll start with an obscure favorite who I published about 
>>>> 10 years ago...
>>>> W. Loran Smith. Then I'll add a poet, and in the interests of full 
>>>> disclosure say
>>>> a friend also, David Clewell. And though she seems to spend more 
>>>> time on fiction
>>>> these, Teresa Svoboda.
>>>>
>>>> That's three. 97 to go, Al.
>>>> Finnegan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com
>>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> Sent: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 1:17 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
>>>>
>>>> I'd rather see a list of 100 poets we might not necessarily know 
>>>> about instead of the tried and true.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From jfq  Sat Nov 24 20:44:40 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:44:40 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <47489344.9040803@nut-n-but.net>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com>
	<4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>	<47487B9D.6010701@myuw.net>
	<47489344.9040803@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <4748D388.3010703@myuw.net>

Bob Grumman wrote:
> Jason Quackenbush wrote:
>> I don't know about that. James agreed that Alice Notley probably 
>> belongs on his list and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 
>> better living poet.
> I don't know here work well enough to argue that.  I never had the 
> impression she was doing anything special in it, though
It depends on what you mean by something special i suppose, but I find 
her work terribly interesting, funny, and amusing and I tend to think 
it's interesting the way she's extended a lot of the typical 2nd Wave 
New York School stuff (common language, weird parataxis, that sort of 
Koch-y wry humor) with language-y insights about the weight and nature 
of language. What I find most interesting about her though is that i 
feel like when i've been reading her later books she's someone who is 
still learning and growing as a poet, which after so many years of 
activity is something pretty special on its own. It's not something you 
see from Ashbery or Collins to pick a couple of fairly obvious examples.
>> I've been absorbed with "In The Pines" for the last week or so, and I 
>> can't remember being this knocked out by a book of poetry by a living 
>> poet. And I don't know that there are many achievements among living 
>> poets that are more impressive than Silliman's The Alphabet.
>>
> He may be one of the few who'd be on my list of most important 100 
> living American poets, Jason--but, I'm curious (and not trying to 
> score points or something): what is special about The Alphabet?  
> People whose opinion I respect greatly admire it, but I dunno. . . .
It's like an erector set of meaning, and when I said The Alphabet, I 
meant Ketjak but said Alphabet because I'm very excited about the 
upcoming publication. But anyway, it's the approach to structure in 
Ketjak that makes the whole thing so interesting. Every chunk of it that 
i've read, although i haven't read all of it, comes at the idea of 
structure in language from a different way. I'll fully admit that 
"Chinese Notebook" was very formative for me when i first started taking 
poetry seriously in my mid twenties, and that it's a sentimental pick 
for that reason. But the thing I really enjoy about Silliman is that I 
can read him and get the stimulation of the brain that the other 
Language poets are so good at, but there's an underlying sensibility of 
a less cerebral aesthetic there that I don't see in, for example, 
Barrett Watten or Rae Armentrout, and which I think lifts Silliman above 
the other 1st Generation Language poets. That is I think that Silliman 
is actually up to something more than he lets on, and tracing it out has 
been something that's been endlessly fascinating an experience for me, 
kind of like reading My Life but everytime i get to the end of a poem i 
seem to be turning around and having to read yet another poem which is 
part of a poem I've just finished. So I guess if you have to pin me down 
about what's special about The Alphabet, it's that it's an interesting 
part of a labyrinth that i enjoy trying to get to the center of.
>> What I think would be interesting would not be a list of the most 
>> visible poets, but something along the lines of what you suggested as 
>> what a critic should know. Some sort of list of what the requirements 
>> are for poetry literacy. I think that would be a much wider field 
>> that would have to include ancient and non-english language poets as 
>> well, but it might be an interesting criteria for a list of modern 
>> poets. Who then should someone be familiar with in contemporary 
>> poetry in order to be literate enough in poetry to be a critic of it? 
>> That I think is a very interesting question.
> Right--literate enough in poetry to be a first-rate /general /critic 
> of it.  As opposed to someone like William Logan whom I consider a 
> first-rate critic, but only of a very narrow slice of the general 
> scene.  Which, whaddya know, brings us back to the need for a decent 
> full list of the viable schools of current American Poetry that I keep 
> asking for help making, and get just about none.
I don't know how much help I'd be, but I certainly wouldn't mind being 
sort of a gofer and general research assistant for such a project.



From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 24 20:45:22 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:45:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poets we ought to know about
In-Reply-To: <284588.86857.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <284588.86857.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4748D3B2.9040308@nut-n-but.net>

At last, a proper list!!!

--Bob

Alexander Dickow wrote:
> Here are a few I think everyone should know about,
> especially here: oddly, I'd say a fair number forget
> we're among poets sometimes:
> Tad Richards
> Bob Grumman
> Anny Ballardini
> James Finnegan
> James Cervantes
> Halvard Johnson
> Amy King
> Jeff Newberry
> Joseph Deumer
> Jason Quackenbush
> and others...
> I'd add my own name, but I'd be a dwarf dodging the
> razor-sharp tibia of giants.
> Amicalement,
> Alex
>
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>    
>   les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>   merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>   




From anny.ballardini  Sun Nov 25 05:51:54 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:51:54 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] poets we ought to know about
References: <284588.86857.qm@web35504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4748D3B2.9040308@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <005c01c82f51$317d4990$9de03652@ANNY>

I think Alex needs a golden statue.

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:45 AM


> At last, a proper list!!!
>
> --Bob
>
> Alexander Dickow wrote:
>> Here are a few I think everyone should know about,
>> especially here: oddly, I'd say a fair number forget
>> we're among poets sometimes:
>> Tad Richards
>> Bob Grumman
>> Anny Ballardini
>> James Finnegan
>> James Cervantes
>> Halvard Johnson
>> Amy King
>> Jeff Newberry
>> Joseph Deumer
>> Jason Quackenbush
>> and others...
>> I'd add my own name, but I'd be a dwarf dodging the
>> razor-sharp tibia of giants.
>> Amicalement,
>> Alex
>>
>> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>>    les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>>   merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>>




From chris.lott  Sun Nov 25 11:52:49 2007
From: chris.lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:52:49 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] L.E.
In-Reply-To: <8C9F92590FB4FDE-169C-1C84@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com>
References: <00a501c82b00$f0c58510$60a83852@ANNY>
	<8C9F92590FB4FDE-169C-1C84@FWM-M07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0711250852t167fe760w1c085530c319fb7c@mail.gmail.com>

What a sad event to learn about in my first search for information
about Landis Everson. I respect the desire to choose one's own means
of exiting this sphere... too bad our society infantilizes the elderly
this way.

I just discovered Everson's book a few days ago and decided to search
for more information. I was curious about the circumstances that
caused him to stop publishing and whether or not he stopped writing
altogether... if he did, then the changes between his youthful poems
and his later ones is that much more interesting.

c

On Nov 19, 2007 3:43 PM,  <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Sorry to hear that...I do hope I have the guts and wherewithal to end things
>  before its a dragged-out ending beyond my control.
>
>  I didn't know him at all...but I liked the story of how a few years ago he
>  came back to poetry after a long silence.
>  Here's an interview...
>  http://jacketmagazine.com/26/ever-iv.html
>
>  Finnegan
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
>  To: New Poetry <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>  Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 6:07 pm
>  Subject: [New-Poetry] L.E.
>
>
>
> This morning I received a message from Ben Mazer telling me that Landis
> Everson has committed suicide in Mill valley. "He shot himself in the head
> with his WWII pistol when he went for a walk on Saturday."
> Ben also added that Landis had a series of strokes which made it impossible
> for him to write poetry.
>
> I had a very nice correspondence with Landis, he was such a cheerful and
> open friend online. Then we lost got lost (what a slip of the fingers...)
> and Ben some time ago upon my inquiry, said he was having health problems.
> I am forwarding his link on the Corner:
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=163
>
>
>
> Anny Ballardini
>  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
>  Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



-- 
Chris Lott



From bobgrumman  Sun Nov 25 12:32:11 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:32:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 100 Poets You Should Know
In-Reply-To: <4748D388.3010703@myuw.net>
References: <d54.1ab5cc8b.34771d86@aol.com><4745DDA8.2040108@nut-n-but.net>
	<47487B9D.6010701@myuw.net><47489344.9040803@nut-n-but.net>
	<4748D388.3010703@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <4749B19B.3080400@nut-n-but.net>



Jason Quackenbush wrote:
> Bob Grumman wrote:
>> Jason Quackenbush wrote:
>>> I don't know about that. James agreed that Alice Notley probably 
>>> belongs on his list and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 
>>> better living poet.
>> I don't know here work well enough to argue that.  I never had the 
>> impression she was doing anything special in it, though
> It depends on what you mean by something special i suppose, but I find 
> her work terribly interesting, funny, and amusing and I tend to think 
> it's interesting the way she's extended a lot of the typical 2nd Wave 
> New York School stuff (common language, weird parataxis, that sort of 
> Koch-y wry humor) with language-y insights about the weight and nature 
> of language. What I find most interesting about her though is that i 
> feel like when i've been reading her later books she's someone who is 
> still learning and growing as a poet, which after so many years of 
> activity is something pretty special on its own. It's not something 
> you see from Ashbery or Collins to pick a couple of fairly obvious 
> examples.
Yeah, my definition of something special has mainly to do with technical 
things like ellipses that change in color, something whose inventor, I 
believe, is my friend Marton Koppany, not expressing what some people 
think of as a special personality or outlook or mind.  But the latter 
may be as important.  As for what qualifies as poetic growth, that's a 
matter too subjective for me to fool much with.  People often criticize 
Cummings, for instance, for lack of such growth, but while his outlook 
never changed much, his techniques continued to develop till the end of 
his life.  I can't say that "doing something special" is the greatest 
critical criterion to use in making a list, just can't think of a 
better, and do think it good for generating useful discussion.

>>> I've been absorbed with "In The Pines" for the last week or so, and 
>>> I can't remember being this knocked out by a book of poetry by a 
>>> living poet. And I don't know that there are many achievements among 
>>> living poets that are more impressive than Silliman's The Alphabet.
>>>
>> He may be one of the few who'd be on my list of most important 100 
>> living American poets, Jason--but, I'm curious (and not trying to 
>> score points or something): what is special about The Alphabet?  
>> People whose opinion I respect greatly admire it, but I dunno. . . .
> It's like an erector set of meaning, and when I said The Alphabet, I 
> meant Ketjak but said Alphabet because I'm very excited about the 
> upcoming publication. But anyway, it's the approach to structure in 
> Ketjak that makes the whole thing so interesting. Every chunk of it 
> that i've read, although i haven't read all of it, comes at the idea 
> of structure in language from a different way. I'll fully admit that 
> "Chinese Notebook" was very formative for me when i first started 
> taking poetry seriously in my mid twenties, and that it's a 
> sentimental pick for that reason. But the thing I really enjoy about 
> Silliman is that I can read him and get the stimulation of the brain 
> that the other Language poets are so good at, but there's an 
> underlying sensibility of a less cerebral aesthetic there that I don't 
> see in, for example, Barrett Watten or Rae Armentrout, and which I 
> think lifts Silliman above the other 1st Generation Language poets. 
> That is I think that Silliman is actually up to something more than he 
> lets on, and tracing it out has been something that's been endlessly 
> fascinating an experience for me, kind of like reading My Life but 
> everytime i get to the end of a poem i seem to be turning around and 
> having to read yet another poem which is part of a poem I've just 
> finished. So I guess if you have to pin me down about what's special 
> about The Alphabet, it's that it's an interesting part of a labyrinth 
> that i enjoy trying to get to the center of.
What do you think he does with syntax that's special?  From what I've 
read of his work, he doesn't nothing with it, and therefore is not a 
language poet, by my standards.  Which isn't to say he's not a good 
poet.  If it's true, and I suspect I'm missing something.
>>> What I think would be interesting would not be a list of the most 
>>> visible poets, but something along the lines of what you suggested 
>>> as what a critic should know. Some sort of list of what the 
>>> requirements are for poetry literacy. I think that would be a much 
>>> wider field that would have to include ancient and non-english 
>>> language poets as well, but it might be an interesting criteria for 
>>> a list of modern poets. Who then should someone be familiar with in 
>>> contemporary poetry in order to be literate enough in poetry to be a 
>>> critic of it? That I think is a very interesting question.
>> Right--literate enough in poetry to be a first-rate /general /critic 
>> of it.  As opposed to someone like William Logan whom I consider a 
>> first-rate critic, but only of a very narrow slice of the general 
>> scene.  Which, whaddya know, brings us back to the need for a decent 
>> full list of the viable schools of current American Poetry that I 
>> keep asking for help making, and get just about none.
> I don't know how much help I'd be, but I certainly wouldn't mind being 
> sort of a gofer and general research assistant for such a project.
You could probably help a lot.  Now we need a volunteer for leader!  
Seriousfully, I would love to devote myself a few hours a day to such a 
project but can't--just too many plates of too much stuff on my too many 
tables.  Plus, I'm a lazy lout.

--Bob




From alexdickow9  Sun Nov 25 13:38:03 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:38:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] the NewPo Public Monument Project
In-Reply-To: <200711251700.lAPH065G030228@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <334365.71349.qm@web35510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

On a similar and even more pie-in-the-sky note, --
though I don't know that it squares with Bob's idea
for his list, although I'd be interested to be a part
of that also -- wouldn't it be thrilling (it would as
far as I'm concerned, anyhow) to do a little book
exchanging amongst the NewPo crowd? I don't have any
books out yet (a possible publisher of a full-length
is currently keeping me waiting for an actual
contract, and I'm getting so impatient that my
fingernails are going to explode like firecrackers
very shortly now...but don't nobody be gittin their
hopes up just yet...)? I imagine I'm not alone in
lacking the cash to buy more than one or two, but
trading is a great means of reading each other without
the financial pressures. (This of course sets aside
those who have extensive online books publishings,
like our wonderfully democratic and eminently readable
Hal, not to mention Bob's Mathematiku and others). On
the other hand, no idea how we'd set up such a
thing....
In re: Bob's list, it seems to me the major obstacle
is that names don't contain much in themselves: one
would hope perhaps vainly for annotations, in order
that one knows what to look for behind the name and/or
label (ie "langpo" "vispo" etc).
Thanks for the kind words, all. 
Amicalement,
Alex


www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From JforJames  Sun Nov 25 14:59:55 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:59:55 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski
Message-ID: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&o
ref=slogin_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin) 
 
King of Pain 

By JIM HARRISON
Published: November 25,  2007

Poetry shouldn?t tell us what we already know, though of course it can  
revive what we think we know. A durable poet, the rarest of all birds, has a  
unique point of view and the gift of language to express it. The unique point of  
view can often come from a mental or physical deformity. Deep within us, but  
also on the surface, is the wounded ugly boy who has never caught an acceptable 
 angle of himself in the mirror. A poet can have a deep sense of himself as a 
 Quasimodo in a world without bells, or as the fine poet Czeslaw Milosz 
wrote: 
    A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the  proud,
A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.
 
Charles Bukowski was a monstrously homely  man...




**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
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From millb  Sun Nov 25 16:04:35 2007
From: millb (millb at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:04:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP
In-Reply-To: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com>
References: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9FDBDEB11514E-13C-3DAB@WEBMAIL-MA04.sysops.aol.com>


Is anyone else on?the list attending the AWP conference in New York?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From Opus40-01  Sun Nov 25 16:06:15 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:06:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd Omission?
Message-ID: <4749E3C7.6000506@opus40.org>

Babette Deutsch has no page at the Academy of American Poets site. And 
she was really good, in addition to being high visibility in her day.

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From Opus40-01  Sun Nov 25 16:09:15 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:09:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski
In-Reply-To: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com>
References: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4749E47B.6090408@opus40.org>

 From Harrison:

Our perceptions of Bukowski, like our perceptions of Kerouac, are 
muddied by the fact that many of his most ardent fans are nitwits who 
love him to the exclusion of any of his contemporaries. I would suggest 
you can appreciate Bukowski with the same brain that loves Wallace 
Stegner and Gary Snyder.

JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin 
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin>
>  
> King of Pain
>  
> By JIM HARRISON
> Published: November 25, 2007
> Poetry shouldn?t tell us what we already know, though of course it can 
> revive what we think we know. A durable poet, the rarest of all birds, 
> has a unique point of view and the gift of language to express it. The 
> unique point of view can often come from a mental or physical 
> deformity. Deep within us, but also on the surface, is the wounded 
> ugly boy who has never caught an acceptable angle of himself in the 
> mirror. A poet can have a deep sense of himself as a Quasimodo in a 
> world without bells, or as the fine poet Czeslaw Milosz wrote:
>     A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,
>     A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.
>  
> Charles Bukowski was a monstrously homely man...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products 
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> 
> and top money wasters 
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> 
> of 2007.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From AlMaginnes  Sun Nov 25 16:41:27 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:41:27 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] AWP
Message-ID: <c63.1ee4a11c.347b4607@aol.com>

Not this year. AWP has gotten too big in recent years and New York only  
threatens to make it worse.



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 25 17:32:44 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:32:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd Omission?
In-Reply-To: <4749E3C7.6000506@opus40.org>
References: <4749E3C7.6000506@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9FDCA3B3AFA8F-860-907@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>

Someone should inform the WomPo list of this fact, so they can?mount a campaign for her addition. I'm a lurker on that list, but I think it's the kind of thing their members would care to get?corrected. And perhaps someone on that list is capable and willing to write Deutsch's entry.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 4:06 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd Omission?


Babette Deutsch has no page at the Academy of American Poets site. And she was really good, in addition to being high visibility in her day.?
?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"?
"Whaddya got?"?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 25 17:41:12 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:41:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski
In-Reply-To: <4749E47B.6090408@opus40.org>
References: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com> <4749E47B.6090408@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9FDCB6A4E2557-860-960@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>

When I scanned down the first paragraph and saw Quasimodo in the first paragraph I thought?Harrison was
bringing Salvatore Quasimodo into?his review, an Italian poet I?like quite a lot, but?he was invoking the?
Quasimodo of Victor Hugo.
Anny, how is Quasimodo, the poet's, reputation holding up in Italy? 
Finnegan


>From Harrison:?
?
Our perceptions of Bukowski, like our perceptions of Kerouac, are muddied by the fact that many of his most ardent fans are nitwits who love him to the exclusion of any of his contemporaries. I would suggest you can appreciate Bukowski with the same brain that loves Wallace Stegner and Gary Snyder.?
?
JforJames at aol.com wrote:?
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin>?
> > King of Pain?
> > By JIM HARRISON?
> Published: November 25, 2007?
> Poetry shouldn?t tell us what we already know, though of course it can > revive what we think we know. A durable poet, the rarest of all birds, > has a unique point of view and the gift of language to express it. The > unique point of view can often come from a mental or physical > deformity. Deep within us, but also on the surface, is the wounded > ugly boy who has never caught an acceptable angle of himself in the > mirror. A poet can have a deep sense of himself as a Quasimodo in a > world without bells, or as the fine poet Czeslaw Milosz wrote:?
> A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,?
> A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.?
> > Charles Bukowski was a monstrously homely man...?



-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 4:09 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski


>From Harrison:?
?
Our perceptions of Bukowski, like our perceptions of Kerouac, are muddied by the fact that many of his most ardent fans are nitwits who love him to the exclusion of any of his contemporaries. I would suggest you can appreciate Bukowski with the same brain that loves Wallace Stegner and Gary Snyder.?
?
JforJames at aol.com wrote:?
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin>?
> > King of Pain?
> > By JIM HARRISON?
> Published: November 25, 2007?
> Poetry shouldn?t tell us what we already know, though of course it can > revive what we think we know. A durable poet, the rarest of all birds, > has a unique point of view and the gift of language to express it. The > unique point of view can often come from a mental or physical > deformity. Deep within us, but also on the surface, is the wounded > ugly boy who has never caught an acceptable angle of himself in the > mirror. A poet can have a deep sense of himself as a Quasimodo in a > world without bells, or as the fine poet Czeslaw Milosz wrote:?
> A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,?
> A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.?
> > Charles Bukowski was a monstrously homely man...?
>?
>?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products > <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001> > and top money wasters > <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002> > of 2007.?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"?
"Whaddya got?"?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 25 18:27:11 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:27:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others: Naomi Shihab Nye
Message-ID: <8C9FDD1D6BE7377-860-B44@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>


Our Time



Robert Frost wrote ?Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening,?
in the middle of a searing hot July.


Maybe he needed a chill, the silence
of frozen trees, to keep the air moving


inside his mind. So many readers have considered
his two roads of another poem,


but maybe sweating Mr. Frost invoking frost,
his secret quirky inversion, matters more.


We grew up proud of our country.
Forests of wonderful words to wander through?


freedom, indivisible,
Now my horse is lost in a sheen of lies.


The world is lovely, dark, and deep.
We honor others as they sleep.


As they wake and as they sleep.



--Naomi Shihab Nye, You and Yours, Boa Editions, 2005

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From amyhappens  Sun Nov 25 19:02:13 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Get Yer Hair Did
In-Reply-To: <8C9FDD1D6BE7377-860-B44@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <988362.25750.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

@ MiPOesias -- >  http://www.amyking.org/blog/



       
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
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From Opus40-01  Sun Nov 25 22:01:15 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:01:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update
Message-ID: <474A36FB.9080905@opus40.org>

On the blog, a new Film Noir.

http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

On Poetry Portraits, five new ones: Donald Finkel, Jack Gilbert, Gary 
Snyder, Babette Deutsch, Joseph Moncure March.

http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/pojazz.html

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

"What are you rebelling against, Johnny?"
"Whaddya got?"




From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 26 02:12:41 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 08:12:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski
References: <c10.23890920.347b2e3b@aol.com> <4749E47B.6090408@opus40.org>
	<8C9FDCB6A4E2557-860-960@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c82ffb$bce54d20$73ed104f@ANNY>

Don't mention him, James. I had a strange experience. Without doing proper research and sort of pushed by a potential collaborator who suggested "we should translate several poems because there aren't any good ones in English" I contacted his son who kindly replied and directed me to the beautiful edition I now have here Introduced and Translated by Jack Bevan; Anvil Press Poetry, London, 1983. 
As far as I know, Quasimodo is studied at school. Which makes it difficult to go back to once you are out "of school," but one never knows...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 11:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski


  When I scanned down the first paragraph and saw Quasimodo in the first paragraph I thought Harrison was
  bringing Salvatore Quasimodo into his review, an Italian poet I like quite a lot, but he was invoking the 
  Quasimodo of Victor Hugo.
  Anny, how is Quasimodo, the poet's, reputation holding up in Italy? 
  Finnegan


    From Harrison: 
     
    Our perceptions of Bukowski, like our perceptions of Kerouac, are muddied by the fact that many of his most ardent fans are nitwits who love him to the exclusion of any of his contemporaries. I would suggest you can appreciate Bukowski with the same brain that loves Wallace Stegner and Gary Snyder. 
     
    JforJames at aol.com wrote: 
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin> 
    > > King of Pain 
    > > By JIM HARRISON 
    > Published: November 25, 2007 
    > Poetry shouldn?t tell us what we already know, though of course it can > revive what we think we know. A durable poet, the rarest of all birds, > has a unique point of view and the gift of language to express it. The > unique point of view can often come from a mental or physical > deformity. Deep within us, but also on the surface, is the wounded > ugly boy who has never caught an acceptable angle of himself in the > mirror. A poet can have a deep sense of himself as a Quasimodo in a > world without bells, or as the fine poet Czeslaw Milosz wrote: 
    > A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud, 
    > A tournament of hunchbacks, literature. 
    > > Charles Bukowski was a monstrously homely man... 



  -----Original Message-----
  From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
  Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 4:09 pm
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Harrison reviews Bukowski


  From Harrison: 
   
  Our perceptions of Bukowski, like our perceptions of Kerouac, are muddied by the fact that many of his most ardent fans are nitwits who love him to the exclusion of any of his contemporaries. I would suggest you can appreciate Bukowski with the same brain that loves Wallace Stegner and Gary Snyder. 
   
  JforJames at aol.com wrote: 
  > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin > <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/books/review/harrison.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin> 
  > > King of Pain 
  > > By JIM HARRISON 
  > Published: November 25, 2007 
  > Poetry shouldn?t tell us what we already know, though of course it can > revive what we think we know. A durable poet, the rarest of all birds, > has a unique point of view and the gift of language to express it. The > unique point of view can often come from a mental or physical > deformity. Deep within us, but also on the surface, is the wounded > ugly boy who has never caught an acceptable angle of himself in the > mirror. A poet can have a deep sense of himself as a Quasimodo in a > world without bells, or as the fine poet Czeslaw Milosz wrote: 
  > A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud, 
  > A tournament of hunchbacks, literature. 
  > > Charles Bukowski was a monstrously homely man... 
  > 
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From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 26 02:15:26 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 08:15:26 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd Omission?
References: <4749E3C7.6000506@opus40.org>
	<8C9FDCA3B3AFA8F-860-907@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c82ffc$1f72a410$73ed104f@ANNY>

I feel as if I was a lurker, too. And I am very sorry because they do work on that list but I don't even have time to read the messages. I think they would appreciate your suggestion, and value your interest. :-)
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 11:32 PM


  Someone should inform the WomPo list of this fact, so they can mount a campaign for her addition. I'm a lurker on that list, but I think it's the kind of thing their members would care to get corrected. And perhaps someone on that list is capable and willing to write Deutsch's entry.
  Finnegan

  -----Original Message-----
  From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
  Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 4:06 pm
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Odd Omission?


  Babette Deutsch has no page at the Academy of American Poets site. And she was really good, in addition to being high visibility in her day. 
   
  -- Tad Richards 
  http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ 
  http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ 
   
  "What are you rebelling against, Johnny?" 
  "Whaddya got?" 
   
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From jforjames  Mon Nov 26 14:47:21 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:47:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others: Naomi Shihab Nye
In-Reply-To: <8C9FDD1D6BE7377-860-B44@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9FDD1D6BE7377-860-B44@mblk-d16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9FE7C4B43CF02-E20-6478@FWM-D11.sysops.aol.com>

First couplet break got lost...fixed below, I hope..


Our Time



Robert Frost wrote ?Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening,?
in the middle of a searing hot July.



Maybe he needed a chill, the silence
of frozen trees, to keep the air moving


inside his mind. So many readers have considered
his two roads of another poem,


but maybe sweating Mr. Frost invoking frost,
his secret quirky inversion, matters more.


We grew up proud of our country.
Forests of wonderful words to wander through?


freedom, indivisible,
Now my horse is lost in a sheen of lies.


The world is lovely, dark, and deep.
We honor others as they sleep.


As they wake and as they sleep.



--Naomi Shihab Nye, You and Yours, Boa Editions, 2005



New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Mon Nov 26 15:10:06 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:10:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hass and Stevens
Message-ID: <8C9FE7F7902824F-7F4-29F7@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-hass25nov25,0,2990556.story?coll=la-headlines-calendar

Poet's landscape of the personal and the public
template_bas
template_bas
Grounded in West Coast soil and literary tradition, Robert Hass is acclaimed for verse that looks inward -- and at political and environmental concerns.

By Scott Timberg, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer 

November 25, 2007


Bay Area poet Robert Hass resembles a West Coast cross between William Wordsworth and Wallace Stevens. Hass sees with the eyes of the English romantic but speaks in the sensuous, philosophical tones of the burgher of Hartford.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Mon Nov 26 20:26:09 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:26:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Postman Always Pukes Twice
Message-ID: <8C9FEAB9F786FCE-D28-4FE3@webmail-db09.sysops.aol.com>


Mail Carrier

?

Though he didn?t know who he was at the time,

he?d sometimes meet Bukowski at the door, 

recognizing a kindred drunk, his face still lit with 

the faint afterglow of a hangover. He?d stand there

at the door, scratching his balls through his bathrobe

as Bukowski handed him a fistful of junk mail 

without making eye contact. ?His great American novel 

stillborn in the typewriter platen, sitting there

on the kitchen table, the sink piled with shitty dishes.

Bukowski hurrying on to the next house on the street,

the L.A. sun buckling the pavement of sidewalks, 

counting ?out ?the steps, stops till quitting time, 
and a cold one down at the corner bar
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Mon Nov 26 21:04:22 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Roche, 91, poet, translator
Message-ID: <8C9FEB0F6BF2F49-D28-5203@webmail-db09.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-florochesbnov26,0,811045.story

Paul Roche, 91, poet, translator
By Margalit Fox | The New York Times 
November 26, 2007 

The cause was cancer, said his daughter, Cordelia Roche de Aguiar.


The author of several well-received volumes of poetry, Mr. Roche (pronounced "rawsh") taught over the years at colleges and universities throughout the United States, among them Smith College; the University of Notre Dame; Centenary College in New Jersey; and Emory & Henry College in Virginia, where, his family said in a statement, "He used to wander stark naked through the woods carpeted with violets."





________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Mon Nov 26 21:13:44 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:13:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wordsworth
Message-ID: <8C9FEB2454F07D5-D28-527A@webmail-db09.sysops.aol.com>


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/the_tls/article2779499.ece


October 31, 2007

Wordsworth's hidden arguments
>From egotism to epic: how the poet's inspired 'breathings' contain the world that surrounds him
Dan Jacobson 

Wordsworth?s poems are admired for many reasons. Some readers are bound to think of him chiefly as a nature poet, or as a narrative poet, or a philosophical and reflective poet, or a poet of rural life and custom; others might care for him more as a lyricist or sonneteer, or even as a writer on political and patriotic themes. These categories are obviously not exclusive of one another; many of his poems can be classified in several ways at once, or can be seen to move from one mode to another as they proceed. 


Early in his career he also became known as a strikingly ?egotistical? and self-absorbed poet


________________________________________________________________________
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From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 27 15:50:07 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:50:07 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Postman Always Pukes Twice
References: <8C9FEAB9F786FCE-D28-4FE3@webmail-db09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002801c83137$187ff360$afef014f@ANNY>


It is funny. I sometimes think that maybe among my students or the people I met there is a Bukowski or a Kerouac, ...
 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:26 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] The Postman Always Pukes Twice


  Mail Carrier
   
  Though he didn?t know who he was at the time,
  he?d sometimes meet Bukowski at the door, 
  recognizing a kindred drunk, his face still lit with 
  the faint afterglow of a hangover. He?d stand there
  at the door, scratching his balls through his bathrobe
  as Bukowski handed him a fistful of junk mail 
  without making eye contact.  His great American novel 
  stillborn in the typewriter platen, sitting there
  on the kitchen table, the sink piled with shitty dishes.
  Bukowski hurrying on to the next house on the street,
  the L.A. sun buckling the pavement of sidewalks, 
  counting  out  the steps, stops till quitting time, 
  and a cold one down at the corner bar
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From chris.lott  Tue Nov 27 18:15:14 2007
From: chris.lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:15:14 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sexuality and New Poetries
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0711271515u64f27c0md117aafb1090a43f@mail.gmail.com>

Until reading a couple of  interviews with Landis Everson and some
articles that those interviews pointed me to, I  hadn't really noticed
and/or paid a lot of attention to the fact that the Berkeley
Renaissance and the New York School was composed largely of gay poets.
It seems like the dynamics of being gay at a time when it was highly
stigmatized--  and having a group of other gay writers to collaborate
with, and all this happening just as a tectonic shift started
occurring in terms of cultural attitudes towards homosexuality
shifting-- must have been a really significant factor in the cohesion
and excitement and creations that came from that group.

Yes? No? Is it a horribly provincial observation? Is there writing out
there about that whole tangled ball of string?

c
--
Chris Lott



From editor  Wed Nov 28 01:36:39 2007
From: editor (David Baratier)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] landis everson
In-Reply-To: <200711271700.lARH045F019804@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <430208.1188.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I know that some of you posted about this earlier but wanted to give my take that originally appeared on another list.

  ---------------------------------------------------
   
  I had not noticed any mention of Landis Eversons' death tho I think I received word of it late last Sunday so I am saying something. At first, his first book made me hopeful about his (new) publisher (only of books, not the journal) and their intent as well as expected quality for future collections. And he wrote some remarkable poems, ones that moved me at moments.
   
  I first learned of Everson in Fulcrum #2 where I appeared with him. While I was not impressed with the poems (from the 50's), the fact of Ben Mazer "finding him" before so many others who were, in my estimation, way too far in depth, immersed in the Berkeley Ren., ringtones and all, including friends and former students, THAT PART was impressive, the finding. What was more pronounced was the new material that subsequently followed, an amazing piece appeared in the The Sycamore Review (1 of 2), an awe inspiring chunk in APR, and there was another set in a location that leaves me at this moment. By the time the book came out I was actually excited, which says a lot for someone who is enamored of Blasers essays (see the recent UC collection), sceptical about Spicer (Collected), and only interested in small sections of Duncan (Bow, mainly).
   
  What a great poet Landis was, there was poem that in my memory,  which all of this is from, I think from SR, called Potatoes and Onions, correct me if I be wrong. The repetition was perfect, not too much Stein.  Just the perfect mix of Spicer's playfulness with Duncan's loft and Gilbert's "down to earthiness" to relegate this writing to the most important figures of the round table.
   
  When his first book surfaced I remembered that I had read him once in the stacks in some library I was invited to, in Ashbery's Locus Solus (sp?), a journal that was often fancy and flight driven in a way that was distasteful. The pub seemed like it was so locally driven that the gist of the moment, or "history," was absent in so many areas, so purposely removed. I hope I am being clear, and the notion of what I call "new-frenchism," totally derived from attempted translations (best example Tennis Court Oath from JA or Freely Espousing from Schuyler, both of which put them on the map in many ways but have not stood any sense of time from what I have learned from earlier Generations (tho Jimmy immediately escaped it)) a plateau which can be annoying in general, for being the primary tone of each collection.  Landis had an interesting "Romaness" to his stance, tactfully appealing but empty on the inscape, an angle of approach that abutted and refuted the new modernist
 approach of the period.  
   
  Anyway, to be brutal, from the "closest" to LE I know, I was told that Landis shot himself once in the head with a world war 2 service revolver. There is little else that has come to light, probably since he was an isolated person from what I know of the last five years, let alone earlier when he entirely disappeared. If somebody wishes to share their appreciation of his work, or knows more please tell, feel free to frontchannel, backchannel or give me a call. If not, buy the book, try it out, let me know--
   

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 28 06:12:11 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:12:11 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sexuality and New Poetries
References: <9b1b9dab0711271515u64f27c0md117aafb1090a43f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c831af$862ec8f0$44eb014f@ANNY>

It is not a provincial observation. It seems that one has to face it, even 
if my tendency would be to exclude sex from Literary Criticism. On the other 
hand with Poets people like to fathom personal spheres. You never ask your 
doc whom he slept with the previous night when he scribbles down 
incomprehensible notes for you to take a couple of pills (sorry James, here 
again I am against docs), or, oh well, your architect! (as if we all had 
private architects...).

From: "Chris Lott" <chris.lott at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:15 AM


> Until reading a couple of  interviews with Landis Everson and some
> articles that those interviews pointed me to, I  hadn't really noticed
> and/or paid a lot of attention to the fact that the Berkeley
> Renaissance and the New York School was composed largely of gay poets.
> It seems like the dynamics of being gay at a time when it was highly
> stigmatized--  and having a group of other gay writers to collaborate
> with, and all this happening just as a tectonic shift started
> occurring in terms of cultural attitudes towards homosexuality
> shifting-- must have been a really significant factor in the cohesion
> and excitement and creations that came from that group.
>
> Yes? No? Is it a horribly provincial observation? Is there writing out
> there about that whole tangled ball of string?
>
> c
> --
> Chris Lott




From jorgensen_a  Wed Nov 28 11:22:40 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:22:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry
Message-ID: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

What is the thinking related to this? I hate to be divisive, but I have never liked much either Silliman or Bernstein -- their work. I can appreciate the "importance," but..  Looking to get feedback and possibly learn. Thanks.
   
  agj.


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From grahamd  Wed Nov 28 12:21:50 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:21:50 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>




On Nov 28, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote:

> What is the thinking related to this? I hate to be divisive, but I  
> have never liked much either Silliman or Bernstein -- their work. I  
> can appreciate the "importance," but..  Looking to get feedback and  
> possibly learn. Thanks.
>
> agj.
>
---------------------

Too huge a question, really.  And not likely you'll get much  
satisfaction from an email list, either.  There's lots of critical  
literature out there, in any case.  And the work itself to wade  
through, naturlaly.  One start might be the New Directions anthology  
titled *Language Poetries*, edited by Douglas Messerli.

You also won't get any unbiased views, either pro or con.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the concept/movement, though I've  
admired some of the work.

A flippant response to your question, then, might go like this:

It's simple, really.  Prior to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, poets hadn't really  
sufficiently noted that poems were, in fact, written in language; and  
furthermore that language itself often or always tends toward the  
elusive, multi-valent, self-contradictory, etc.  Similarly, there was  
the "myth of the unified self," in which poor benighted Shakespeare,  
Milton, Whitman et al. were inadequately aware of the problematic  
nature of identity & selfhood.  We have now advanced on such limited  
awareness.

Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================


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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 28 12:32:40 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:32:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <474DA638.10100@nut-n-but.net>



Alexander Jorgensen wrote:
> What is the thinking related to this? I hate to be divisive, but I 
> have never liked much either Silliman or Bernstein -- their work. I 
> can appreciate the "importance," but..  Looking to get feedback and 
> possibly learn. Thanks.
>  
> agj.

Do you meant the thinking related to language poetry?  A lot has been 
done, but little of it seems very coherent to me.  In my taxonomy, 
language poetry splits into poetry that does unothodox poetically 
expressive things with grammar, and poetry I call infraverbal poetry 
that does unorthodox poetically expressive things inside words, mainly 
orthographically.  I don't think language poets would agree with me.  I 
think they want their variety of poetry left undefined.  In any case, 
I've not found a rigorous or even good unrigorous definition of it.

--Bob
>
>
> --
> Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of 
> the stuff that nature replaces it with."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 28 12:43:37 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:43:37 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_mudan=E7a_de_endere=E7o_da_PAR?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=C1BOLA_EDITORIAL?=
Message-ID: <002d01c831e6$34edfbf0$bcab3452@ANNY>

Foucault: falar francamente ! (this I understand...






S?o Paulo, 28 de novembro de 2007

Caros autores, caras autoras
Caros distribuidores
Caros livreiros, livreiras 
Caros leitores, leitoras
Queridos amigos, queridas amigas



a partir de 10 de dezembro de 2008 a Par?bola Editorial passar? a funcionar em sua nova sede:
Par?bola Editorial
Rua Sussuarana, 216
04281-070 S?o Paulo, SP

Telefones e e-mails permanecer?o os mesmos.

Por favor, atualizem nosso novo endere?o em seus cadastros e o levem em conta para todas as futuras remessas postais.
Obrigado.
Abra?o


Marcos Marcionilo
editor
Par?bola Editorial
Rua Sussuarana, 216 - Ipiranga
04281-070 S?o Paulo, SP
voz: 55 11 69 14 49 32
fax: 55 11 62 15 26 36
cel: 55 11 99 54 23 17
e-mail: editor at parabolaeditorial.com.br
website: www.parabolaeditorial.com.br
skype: marcos.marcionilo
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From rsillima  Wed Nov 28 13:43:19 2007
From: rsillima (Ron Silliman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <200711281700.lASH045G030160@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <370318.10097.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

In Grand Piano, 5, forthcoming, I look at the six most common definitions, three of which make some sense, three of which just strike me as sloppy thinking. I think the fact that I and my friends tended to shy away from that rubric (named as we were precisely so we could be dismissed) caused us not to take a look at what that phrase might mean to others until fairly late in the game. All of the more rigorous definitions have some historical component to them -- the purely "formal" ones tend to be wildly off the mark. 

Ron Silliman



From paul  Wed Nov 28 14:18:01 2007
From: paul (Paul C. Howell)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:18:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <200711281700.lASH045G030160@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711281700.lASH045G030160@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20071128141519.0404c238@tbhinc.com>

Funny to think of painters or sculptors not knowing what they were 
working with, but poets not knowing it's words? Curious. Good going, David.


>Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:21:50 -0600
>From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
>Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
>To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;  Views"
>         <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Message-ID: <D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F at ripon.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
>
>On Nov 28, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote:
>
> > What is the thinking related to this? I hate to be divisive, but I
> > have never liked much either Silliman or Bernstein -- their work. I
> > can appreciate the "importance," but..  Looking to get feedback and
> > possibly learn. Thanks.
> >
> > agj.
> >
>---------------------
>
>Too huge a question, really.  And not likely you'll get much
>satisfaction from an email list, either.  There's lots of critical
>literature out there, in any case.  And the work itself to wade
>through, naturlaly.  One start might be the New Directions anthology
>titled *Language Poetries*, edited by Douglas Messerli.
>
>You also won't get any unbiased views, either pro or con.
>
>Personally, I'm not a fan of the concept/movement, though I've
>admired some of the work.
>
>A flippant response to your question, then, might go like this:
>
>It's simple, really.  Prior to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, poets hadn't really
>sufficiently noted that poems were, in fact, written in language; and
>furthermore that language itself often or always tends toward the
>elusive, multi-valent, self-contradictory, etc.  Similarly, there was
>the "myth of the unified self," in which poor benighted Shakespeare,
>Milton, Whitman et al. were inadequately aware of the problematic
>nature of identity & selfhood.  We have now advanced on such limited
>awareness.
>
>Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.
>
>
>========================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>Home Page:
>http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
>Poetry Library:
>http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>==========================================




From jforjames  Wed Nov 28 14:53:41 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:53:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: a call for submissions
In-Reply-To: <BAY104-DAV100F6717AECB58BE769F889D770@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY104-DAV100F6717AECB58BE769F889D770@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CA000F82E0F516-F58-28A3@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com>




-----Original Message-----
From: mary dalrymple <Maryanka_50 at msn.com>
To: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:48 pm
Subject: a call for submissions




Dear Poet -? 

?

I am using the P&W online directory to send you this call for submissions . . . 

?


Angel Face, a poetry publication, seeks strong visual poetry of the human experience for the 4th issue.? Poems selected are arranged according to the rosary mysteries, but submitting poets need not be Catholic or Christian to submit.? 

?

Editor prefers secular/spiritual poems over overtly religious works.? Prefers poems from the poet?s life that somehow bring a particular rosary mystery ?into life.?? But will also consider poems written from the biblical source material for the rosary mysteries.? The goal with each issue is to bring the rosary ?into life.?? 

?

This is a unique publication.? Most poems published in Angel Face were not written with the rosary in mind.? For sample poems, rosary information, and full submission guidelines, visit MaryAnka Press (link to website provided below).? Sample copies of previous issues are available for $7.00 each

?

The editor does not consider e-mailed submissions for various reasons (see Editor?s Notes).? To submit, send up to 5 typed poems, plus SASE, to? --

?

Angel Face
c/o MaryAnka Press
P.O. Box 102
Huffman, Texas 77336

?

Best wishes -

?

Mary Agnes Dalrymple, publisher and editor

?

www.maryanka.com? MaryAnka Press? (rosary poetry publisher) 

?

www.maryankabeads.com? Maryanka Beads (rosaries, jewelry, beads, rosary parts) 




________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 28 15:06:16 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:06:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Cape Breton Poet Wins Gov. General's Literary Award
Message-ID: <8CA001144CA6DB1-AF8-2C6E@webmailbeta-m09.sysops.aol.com>


http://thechronicleherald.ca/Entertainment/994771.html
Domanski?s poetry wins
Cape Breton-born poet awarded first Governor General?s literary prize; Ondaatje ties MacLennan?s record
By ELISSA BARNARD Arts Reporterand The Canadian Press
Wed. Nov 28 - 6:45 AM


Cape Breton-born poet Don Domanski, who now lives in Halifax, won the Governor General?s Literary Award for poetry for his work, All Our Wonder Unavenged (Brick Books). 


""What I feel is very honoured and very happy about this,"" Domanski said Tuesday after receiving his award in Montreal.

After being nominated three times for a Governor General?s Award for Poetry, ""I thought maybe I might get the Miss Congeniality Award.




SIDEBAR--I went to Cape Breton for the first time back in June...beautiful place. Lots to do if you like hiking, kayaking, etc.
And Halifax is a pretty seaport city, only an hour's flight form Boston....it reminds me of little of San Francisco, except smaller of course.
But if the dollar keeps falling we'll all be staying put?or working in tourism industry here in US.
Finnegan

________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From chris.lott  Wed Nov 28 15:25:08 2007
From: chris.lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:25:08 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sexuality and New Poetries
In-Reply-To: <001a01c831af$862ec8f0$44eb014f@ANNY>
References: <9b1b9dab0711271515u64f27c0md117aafb1090a43f@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c831af$862ec8f0$44eb014f@ANNY>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0711281225o39c78222led008526f505ec66@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's inescapable, though, that sexuality is one of those
things that can reinforce (or break) bonds in groups... so when
considering a significant group of poets, it's hard not to ponder the
influence... and then when it comes up so naturally in conversation
with members of that group (check out the Landis Everson interview in
Jacket, for instance). I noticed it in this case because while Everson
is acknowledged as a somewhat important figure, his poetry seems quite
different from theirs... I wonder if the fact that "everyone was in
love with him" had something to do with the initial acceptance he
received for his relatively mainstream poems (though it certainly
didn't prevent Spicer and others from raking him over the coals for
publishing in mainstream publications).

I'm less interested in how sexuality influences or appears in
individual poems (at the moment anyway :)

c

On Nov 28, 2007 2:12 AM, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
> It is not a provincial observation. It seems that one has to face it, even
> if my tendency would be to exclude sex from Literary Criticism. On the other
> hand with Poets people like to fathom personal spheres. You never ask your
> doc whom he slept with the previous night when he scribbles down
> incomprehensible notes for you to take a couple of pills (sorry James, here
> again I am against docs), or, oh well, your architect! (as if we all had
> private architects...).
>
> From: "Chris Lott" <chris.lott at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:15 AM
>
>
>
> > Until reading a couple of  interviews with Landis Everson and some
> > articles that those interviews pointed me to, I  hadn't really noticed
> > and/or paid a lot of attention to the fact that the Berkeley
> > Renaissance and the New York School was composed largely of gay poets.
> > It seems like the dynamics of being gay at a time when it was highly
> > stigmatized--  and having a group of other gay writers to collaborate
> > with, and all this happening just as a tectonic shift started
> > occurring in terms of cultural attitudes towards homosexuality
> > shifting-- must have been a really significant factor in the cohesion
> > and excitement and creations that came from that group.
> >
> > Yes? No? Is it a horribly provincial observation? Is there writing out
> > there about that whole tangled ball of string?
> >
> > c
> > --
> > Chris Lott
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Chris Lott



From chris.lott  Wed Nov 28 15:50:03 2007
From: chris.lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:50:03 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] landis everson
In-Reply-To: <430208.1188.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <200711271700.lARH045F019804@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<430208.1188.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0711281250j7909ae96nca89d2b7e18b47a7@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 27, 2007 9:36 PM, David Baratier <editor at pavementsaw.org> wrote:
> By the time the book came out I was actually excited, which says a
> lot for someone who is enamored of Blasers essays (see the recent UC
> collection), sceptical about Spicer (Collected), and only interested in
> small sections of Duncan (Bow, mainly).

I just discovered Everson, but I essentially share this position...
sadly, I just found about Everson, serendipitously finding the book
the same day he died.

> What a great poet Landis was, there was poem that in my memory,  which all
> of this is from, I think from SR, called Potatoes and Onions, correct me if
> I be wrong. The repetition was perfect, not too much Stein.  Just the
> perfect mix of Spicer's playfulness with Duncan's loft and Gilbert's "down
> to earthiness" to relegate this writing to the most important figures of the
> round table.

I like bringing Gilbert into the mix... very apt.

The poem you mention is one of my favorites in the book, and since I
had already typed in a good chunk for my commonplace book, I'll go
ahead and share the whole thing.

The Onion and the Piano
Landis Everson

It's not Dada to put together a piano with an onion, it's
easy to do, like painting any kind of landscape, or
speaking with a tongue split in two. On the window ledge
as you pass, a bowl with an onion in it is
a pale white inside a pale blue, and an etude
coming out, between curtains dotted red on yellow,
mixed with the smell of dinner, dancing and desire.

You make it up. You are playing a fife while
an enemy joins you on his piano. Behind you
there's a painting on the wall, "Girl With Onions." You once
loved her and associated everything with her smell.
You are drawing with chalk a rubble of onions thrown against a wall,
using every color you have to get the right white while
standing on a piano. Two pianos. You are standing in a field

of tomatoes and one onion sprout intrudes, dominating the view.
You hear the tinkling, too close to reality,
of an eighteenth-century harpsichord (not a piano?)
playing boogie-woogie thought up by Bach
in the shadowy intensity of the world between your ears.
Your coloring book growingly has no meaning--
you interchange the colors every day.
There's a ballerina on a giant onion, rolling

between laughter and her fancy feet. She is telling us
that there's a symbolic mystery under her movements
and the luminous ball she dances on, which has been
painted as an obvious fake of cardboard, confetti and paste,
with hints of layers of skin and the color of breaking waves,
that an onion, if it moves and is cold, could be an ocean.

Or almost anything (except by fact or fantasy) a piano.
Even the keys are an off-match, the legs impossible
the sound coming out of it never an onion sound,
not an etude for a tangy vegetable, unless you can allow,
as in a poem or cartoon, onions to possess voices singing
within the range of strings, pedals and soft hammers.

Merging into sight in the sky are two separated things,
a musician with his neck broken playing on an flattened onion
as if it were a violin, and under him the grass cups a blue ox
into a bowl with no meaning. You accept it, nodding your head
to the music. You are starved for improbabilities. There are
never enough in your life, between the ads

for cars high up on mesas and cures for erectile dysfunction,
fungus, bad breath and indigestion, any two will do.
It is like marriages that are needed. Some last, some don't.
There is surrealism in the air we breathe. Two
impossibilities, like rocks and branches, fit together
in the same landscape. They can kill you or help you live.

Thunder sobs next to the radio when it hears its big voice
reduced on a recording of a storm whose raindrops
share only stories of rain. However you look,
the piano and the onion are just lightning and hail,
mixing it up for equilibrium, equal shades of what's for real.


***
>From _Everything Preserved: Poems 1955-2005_
Originally publishined in _Seneca Review)_

c



From chris.lott  Wed Nov 28 15:53:41 2007
From: chris.lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:53:41 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 28, 2007 8:21 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.

Channeling Bob G. here?

c (I think it was Bob who recently remarked that he had read all of
Frost and essentially found nothing interesting there)



From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 28 16:13:09 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:13:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <370318.10097.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <370318.10097.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <474DD9E5.8010705@nut-n-but.net>



Ron Silliman wrote:
> In Grand Piano, 5, forthcoming, I look at the six most common definitions, three of which make some sense, three of which just strike me as sloppy thinking. I think the fact that I and my friends tended to shy away from that rubric (named as we were precisely so we could be dismissed) caused us not to take a look at what that phrase might mean to others until fairly late in the game.
But you never bothered to define what you thought you were doing with 
any kind of precision, either, whatever name you thought it ought to be 
called, or not called.

> All of the more rigorous definitions have some historical component to them -- the purely "formal" ones tend to be wildly off the mark. 
>
> Ron Silliman
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>   
So, Ron, Bruce and Charles named their book /The L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E Book/ 
in order to dismiss you and your friends?  No matter, it will be 
interesting to read what you have to say. 

--Bob


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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 28 17:12:31 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:12:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <474DE7CF.2030108@nut-n-but.net>

David Graham wrote:
> You also won't get any unbiased views, either pro or con.

My view is completely unbiased: language poetry is poetry centered in 
grammar and/or orthography, with either or both of which it does 
unconventional things in order to make its aesthetic point.
>
> Personally, I'm not a fan of the concept/movement, though I've admired 
> some of the work.  
>
> A flippant response to your question, then, might go like this:
>
> It's simple, really.  Prior to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, poets hadn't really 
> sufficiently noted that poems were, in fact, written in language;
I at first held this view that calling language poetry was silly since 
all poetry is language poetry.  But once you become familiar with 
genuine language poetry, you find that it is /primarily/ concerned with 
grammar and/or spelling, not with subject matter, sound effects, formal 
structure, imagery.  To say all poetry is language poetry because all 
poetry is language is thus as empty-headed as saying that all poetry is 
visual poetry because all poetry (on the page) is seen, or that all 
poetry is sound poetry because all poetry (spoken and subliminally 
pronounced while read) is heard, or that all poetry is imagist poetry 
since all poetry contains some kind of imagery.  It's a matter of what 
is emphasized, not a matter of what is there. 

> and furthermore that language itself often or always tends toward the 
> elusive, multi-valent, self-contradictory, etc.  Similarly, there was 
> the "myth of the unified self," in which poor benighted Shakespeare, 
> Milton, Whitman et al. were inadequately aware of the problematic 
> nature of identity & selfhood.  We have now advanced on such limited 
> awareness.
>
> Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow. 
>
I would agree that language poets too often define or describe what they 
think they're composing  by the ideas it promotes or opposes rather than 
by what it is as words and what it does as techniques, which is the only 
intelligent way to define a kind of poetry.

--Bob G.
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From cervantes.james  Wed Nov 28 17:13:13 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:13:13 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
	<9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60711281413le3084a2jb592d16ea75319e5@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/28/07, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 2007 8:21 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> > Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.
>
> Channeling Bob G. here?
>
> c (I think it was Bob who recently remarked that he had read all of
> Frost and essentially found nothing interesting there)

Nah.  That was me, except that it was Tennyson.  Oh,  and that I had
*not* read any Tennyson that I could finish without a Soma tablet or
two.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From grahamd  Wed Nov 28 17:32:35 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:32:35 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <474DE7CF.2030108@nut-n-but.net>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
	<474DE7CF.2030108@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <CD27AB8A-2907-4157-A275-4142B9345840@ripon.edu>




On Nov 28, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
> To say all poetry is language poetry because all poetry is language  
> is thus as empty-headed as saying that all poetry is visual poetry  
> because all poetry (on the page) is seen,
-----------------

Whew!  I'm sure glad that that's not what I said, then. . . .

I was just spoofing, Bob.

If I were so foolish as to attempt a definition of Language Poetry, I  
might start with the Messerli anthology that I previously referred  
to.  His introduction is online, and I recommend a look to anyone  
interested in the topic:

http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/messerli/essays/ 
messerli_language_poetries.html

As good a succinct definition as any I've seen is this passage of  
Messerli's:

"These poets have all foregrounded language itself as the project of  
their writing. For these writers, language is not something that  
explains or translates experience, but is the source of experience.  
Language is perception, thought itself; and in that context the poems  
of these writers do not function as "frames" of experience or brief  
narrative summaries of ideas or emotions as they do for many current  
poets."
Reprinted from "Language" Poetries: An Anthology, Edited with an  
Introduction by Douglas Messerli. (New York: New Directions, 1987).  
?1987 by Douglas Messerli.





========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================
David Graham wrote:
You also won't get any unbiased views, either pro or con.

My view is completely unbiased: language poetry is poetry centered in  
grammar and/or orthography, with either or both of which it does  
unconventional things in order to make its aesthetic point.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the concept/movement, though I've  
admired some of the work.

A flippant response to your question, then, might go like this:

It's simple, really.  Prior to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, poets hadn't really  
sufficiently noted that poems were, in fact, written in language;
I at first held this view that calling language poetry was silly  
since all poetry is language poetry.  But once you become familiar  
with genuine language poetry, you find that it is primarily concerned  
with grammar and/or spelling, not with subject matter, sound effects,  
formal structure, imagery.  To say all poetry is language poetry  
because all poetry is language is thus as empty-headed as saying that  
all poetry is visual poetry because all poetry (on the page) is seen,  
or that all poetry is sound poetry because all poetry (spoken and  
subliminally pronounced while read) is heard, or that all poetry is  
imagist poetry since all poetry contains some kind of imagery.  It's  
a matter of what is emphasized, not a matter of what is there.

and furthermore that language itself often or always tends toward the  
elusive, multi-valent, self-contradictory, etc.  Similarly, there was  
the "myth of the unified self," in which poor benighted Shakespeare,  
Milton, Whitman et al. were inadequately aware of the problematic  
nature of identity & selfhood.  We have now advanced on such limited  
awareness.

Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.

I would agree that language poets too often define or describe what  
they think they're composing  by the ideas it promotes or opposes  
rather than by what it is as words and what it does as techniques,  
which is the only intelligent way to define a kind of poetry.

--Bob G.

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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 28 17:34:01 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:34:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
	<9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>



Chris Lott wrote:
> On Nov 28, 2007 8:21 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>   
>> Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.
>>     
>
> Channeling Bob G. here?
>   
Amucingly, I like Frost's Stopping by the Woods much more than David 
does.  It's one of my favorites.
> c (I think it was Bob who recently remarked that he had read all of
> Frost and essentially found nothing interesting there)
Yikes, Chris, I thought we were starting to get along.  I never said I'd 
read all of Frost, though I've read a lot of his stuff.  What I failed 
to find was anything significantly innovative in his oeuvre.  I don't 
think he was important as opposed to effective.  An Andrew Wyeth rather 
than a Jackson Pollock.  Note: I love the work of Andrew Wyeth.

--Bob
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From grahamd  Wed Nov 28 17:37:44 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:37:44 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
	<9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>
	<474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <21A623F4-7755-4D99-98FB-561739B509BC@ripon.edu>




On Nov 28, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> Amucingly, I like Frost's Stopping by the Woods much more than  
> David does.  It's one of my favorites.
>>

---------


Wow, you're good at reading minds!  Now, how many fingers am I  
holding up right now?

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================


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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 28 18:09:55 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:09:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <21A623F4-7755-4D99-98FB-561739B509BC@ripon.edu>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu><9b1b9dab0711281253y687b
	444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com><474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>
	<21A623F4-7755-4D99-98FB-561739B509BC@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <474DF543.3030006@nut-n-but.net>



David Graham wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>> Amusingly, I like Frost's Stopping by the Woods much more than David 
>> does.  It's one of my favorites.
> ---------
>
>
> Wow, you're good at reading minds!  Now, how many fingers am I holding 
> up right now?
>
Not mind-reading, but remembering--wrongly, it would appear.  I could 
have sworn you remarked once that you were not especially keen on 
Stopping by the Woods.  Or maybe just that you didn't consider it one of 
his greatest poems--as I do.


--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman  Wed Nov 28 18:19:52 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:19:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <CD27AB8A-2907-4157-A275-4142B9345840@ripon.edu>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu><474DE7CF.2030108@nut-n-
	but.net> <CD27AB8A-2907-4157-A275-4142B9345840@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <474DF798.8060200@nut-n-but.net>


David Graham wrote:
>
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:
>> To say all poetry is language poetry because all poetry is language 
>> is thus as empty-headed as saying that all poetry is visual poetry 
>> because all poetry (on the page) is seen,
> -----------------
>
> Whew!  I'm sure glad that that's not what I said, then. . . .
>
> I was just spoofing, Bob.

I noted "a flippant definition might go something like the following," 
or words to that effect, David.  But I found most of you to be spoofing 
the idea of calling a poetry language poetry, and that language poets 
thought themselves original for thinking "that language itself often or 
always tends toward the elusive, multi-valent, self-contradictory, etc."
>
> If I were so foolish as to attempt a definition of Language Poetry, I 
> might start with the Messerli anthology that I previously referred to. 
>  His introduction is online, and I recommend a look to anyone 
> interested in the topic:
>
> http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/messerli/essays/messerli_language_poetries.html
>
> As good a succinct definition as any I've seen is this passage of 
> Messerli's:
>
> "These poets have all foregrounded language itself as the project of 
> their writing. For these writers, language is not something that 
> explains or translates experience, but is the source of experience. 
> Language is perception, thought itself; and in that context the poems 
> of these writers do not function as "frames" of experience or brief 
> narrative summaries of ideas or emotions as they do for many current 
> poets."
>
> Reprinted from "Language" Poetries: An Anthology, Edited with an 
> Introduction by Douglas Messerli. (New York: New Directions, 1987). 
> ?1987 by Douglas Messerli.
>

I have the Messerli book.  The definition above is okay but squirts into 
loopy generalities, without telling specifically how language poets do 
what he says they do, which is crucial. 

--Bob G.
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
> David Graham wrote:
> You also won't get any unbiased views, either pro or con.
>
> My view is completely unbiased: language poetry is poetry centered in 
> grammar and/or orthography, with either or both of which it does 
> unconventional things in order to make its aesthetic point.
>
> Personally, I'm not a fan of the concept/movement, though I've admired 
> some of the work.  
>
> A flippant response to your question, then, might go like this:
>
> It's simple, really.  Prior to L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, poets hadn't really 
> sufficiently noted that poems were, in fact, written in language;
> I at first held this view that calling language poetry was silly since 
> all poetry is language poetry.  But once you become familiar with 
> genuine language poetry, you find that it is /primarily/ concerned 
> with grammar and/or spelling, not with subject matter, sound effects, 
> formal structure, imagery.  To say all poetry is language poetry 
> because all poetry is language is thus as empty-headed as saying that 
> all poetry is visual poetry because all poetry (on the page) is seen, 
> or that all poetry is sound poetry because all poetry (spoken and 
> subliminally pronounced while read) is heard, or that all poetry is 
> imagist poetry since all poetry contains some kind of imagery.  It's a 
> matter of what is emphasized, not a matter of what is there.  
>
> and furthermore that language itself often or always tends toward the 
> elusive, multi-valent, self-contradictory, etc.  Similarly, there was 
> the "myth of the unified self," in which poor benighted Shakespeare, 
> Milton, Whitman et al. were inadequately aware of the problematic 
> nature of identity & selfhood.  We have now advanced on such limited 
> awareness.
>
> Oh, and Robert Frost wrote too much about horses and snow.  
>
> I would agree that language poets too often define or describe what 
> they think they're composing  by the ideas it promotes or opposes 
> rather than by what it is as words and what it does as techniques, 
> which is the only intelligent way to define a kind of poetry.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Nov 28 18:32:32 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:32:32 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com><D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu><9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com><474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>
	<21A623F4-7755-4D99-98FB-561739B509BC@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00a901c83216$f2edd000$2bad3252@ANNY>

Three.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry







  On Nov 28, 2007, at 4:34 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:


    Amucingly, I like Frost's Stopping by the Woods much more than David does.  It's one of my favorites.

  ---------




  Wow, you're good at reading minds!  Now, how many fingers am I holding up right now?



  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu


  Home Page:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html


  Poetry Library:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
  ==========================================






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From chris.lott  Wed Nov 28 18:59:50 2007
From: chris.lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:59:50 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>
	<9b1b9dab0711281253y687b444drbf23f09ef3821015@mail.gmail.com>
	<474DECD9.5040003@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0711281559v7a5cc17cw295701c60f3af62c@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 28, 2007 1:34 PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>  c (I think it was Bob who recently remarked that he had read all of
> Frost and essentially found nothing interesting there)
>  Yikes, Chris, I thought we were starting to get along.  I never said I'd
> read all of Frost, though I've read a lot of his stuff.  What I failed to
> find was anything significantly innovative in his oeuvre.  I don't think he
> was important as opposed to effective.  An Andrew Wyeth rather than a
> Jackson Pollock.  Note: I love the work of Andrew Wyeth.

My mistake re: your Frostian tendencies. Hopefully we can keep getting along...

c



From david.bircumshaw  Wed Nov 28 23:00:00 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:00:00 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007701c8323c$53821640$23c60556@windows>

>What is the thinking related to this? I hate to be divisive, but I have never liked much either Silliman or Bernstein -- their work. I can appreciate the "importance," but..  Looking to get feedback and possibly learn. Thanks.

agj.<

I think Bernstein more important for his work as a critic and writer about poetry than his poems although he can be amusing but not, I reckon, as much as Bob Perelman can be. Silliman's blog, although I'm not an avid user, is, I feel, an important presence on the web.

Many of the other Language poets though, I'm afraid do not, er, um, seem to have a sharp enough 'language' to me. Their voices tend to have a sameness I find, a rather formulaic one at that. In fact, they often don't seem sufficiently aware of their language. It also seems to me that little of their writings offers 'dialogue' with the reader.

Otherwise, and I'm not entirely clear on this, if this is the case, I have the impression that there is a supposition that as the forms and formalities of traditional poetry mirror or equate to social division and hierarchies (which notion has a touch of truth in it, but one has to handle the thought with circumspection) so too grammatical divisions (e.g. subject-verb-object) reflect (enforce? compound?) social hierarchy. Which seems to me an altogether dodgier ground. I'd meekly offer that in a sentence such as 'I offer the gibbon the banana' that though the gibbon is undeniably the object of an action of subject which is seemingly in my property portfolio it cannot be said that my actions towards the gibbon seem hostile (presuming that is the banana is not poisoned) and that as the sentence stands, without context, one cannot assume that the gibbon is necessarily in a situation where its libery is or is about to be curtailed and that although the banana seems to be very much a passive hostage of the sentence I have to say I have yet to receive any complaints from it and, finally, that though the 'I' of the sentence could be claimed to be projecting an unwarranted unity and fiction of subject 'I' must insist it is part of a larger continuum in which it has been and is thoroughly ironised, disassembled, rebuked, upturned, dissolved, liberated from itself and definitely and repeatedly made to do lines.


Best

Dave


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alexander Jorgensen 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 4:22 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Language Poetry


  What is the thinking related to this? I hate to be divisive, but I have never liked much either Silliman or Bernstein -- their work. I can appreciate the "importance," but..  Looking to get feedback and possibly learn. Thanks.

  agj.


  --
  Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini  Thu Nov 29 11:59:17 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:59:17 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: American Life in Poetry: Column 140
Message-ID: <001c01c832a9$2de7d8d0$a6ed064f@ANNY>


>
> American Life in Poetry: Column 140
>
> BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006
>
poem by Steven Schneider>
>
> Chanukah Lights Tonight
>
> Our annual prairie Chanukah party--
> latkes, kugel, cherry blintzes.
> Friends arrive from nearby towns
> and dance the twist to "Chanukah Lights Tonight,"
> spin like a dreidel to a klezmer hit.
>
> The candles flicker in the window.
> Outside, ponderosa pines are tied in red bows.
> If you squint,
> the neighbors' Christmas lights
> look like the Omaha skyline.
>
> The smell of oil is in the air.
> We drift off to childhood
> where we spent our gelt
> on baseball cards and matinees,
> cream sodas and potato knishes.
>
> No delis in our neighborhood,
> only the wind howling over the crushed corn stalks.
> Inside, we try to sweep the darkness out,
> waiting for the Messiah to knock,
> wanting to know if he can join the party.
>
>
>
> American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation 
> (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also 
> supported by the Department of English at the University of 
> Nebraska-Lincoln. Reprinted from "Prairie Air Show," Talking River 
> Publications, 2000, by permission of Steven Schneider. Poem copyright (c) 
> 2000 by Steven Schneider. Introduction copyright (c) 2007 by The Poetry 
> Foundation.  The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United 
> States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 
> 2004-2006.  We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts.
>
> ******************************
>
> American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a 
> free weekly column  featuring contemporary American poems. The sole 
> mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry 
> seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are 
> no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your 
> publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without 
> alteration.
> 




From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 29 12:32:38 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:32:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: American Life in Poetry: Column 140
In-Reply-To: <001c01c832a9$2de7d8d0$a6ed064f@ANNY>
References: <001c01c832a9$2de7d8d0$a6ed064f@ANNY>
Message-ID: <474EF7B6.8080403@opus40.org>

This would read so much better as prose.

Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>>
>> American Life in Poetry: Column 140
>>
>> BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006
>>
> poem by Steven Schneider>
>>
>> Chanukah Lights Tonight
>>
>> Our annual prairie Chanukah party--
>> latkes, kugel, cherry blintzes.
>> Friends arrive from nearby towns
>> and dance the twist to "Chanukah Lights Tonight,"
>> spin like a dreidel to a klezmer hit.
>>
>> The candles flicker in the window.
>> Outside, ponderosa pines are tied in red bows.
>> If you squint,
>> the neighbors' Christmas lights
>> look like the Omaha skyline.
>>
>> The smell of oil is in the air.
>> We drift off to childhood
>> where we spent our gelt
>> on baseball cards and matinees,
>> cream sodas and potato knishes.
>>
>> No delis in our neighborhood,
>> only the wind howling over the crushed corn stalks.
>> Inside, we try to sweep the darkness out,
>> waiting for the Messiah to knock,
>> wanting to know if he can join the party.
>>
>>
>>
>> American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation 
>> (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also 
>> supported by the Department of English at the University of 
>> Nebraska-Lincoln. Reprinted from "Prairie Air Show," Talking River 
>> Publications, 2000, by permission of Steven Schneider. Poem copyright 
>> (c) 2000 by Steven Schneider. Introduction copyright (c) 2007 by The 
>> Poetry Foundation.  The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as 
>> United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of 
>> Congress from 2004-2006.  We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts.
>>
>> ******************************
>>
>> American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications 
>> with a free weekly column  featuring contemporary American poems. The 
>> sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in 
>> Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. 
>> There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you 
>> register your publication here and that the text of the column be 
>> reproduced without alteration.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

The moral is this: in American verse,
The better you are, the pay is worse.
  --Corey Ford




From jforjames  Thu Nov 29 14:49:22 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:49:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?Elizabeth_Bishop=E2=80=99s_unpublished_po?=
	=?utf-8?q?ems=2C_reviewed_by_Mariyn_Hacker?=
Message-ID: <8CA00D812CB2590-234-6D80@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.poetrylondon.co.uk/

A doubled good read ? Elizabeth Bishop?s unpublished poems with lively annotations and notes

Marilyn Hacker?s pleasure in the poems and the fresh insights into Bishop?s way of working
?
? ELIZABETH BISHOP 
Edgar Allen Poe and the Juke-Box: Uncollected Poems, Drafts and Fragments 
Edited and annotated by ALICE QUINN 
Carcanet Press ?16.95 


Alice Quinn, the charismatic and sometimes controversial poetry editor of The New Yorker, now Executive Director of the Poetry Society of America as well, has proved herself an impeccable and courageous critic and scholar of modern poetry with the appearance of Edgar Allen Poe and the Juke-Box, her morethan- annotated edition of the unpublished poems of Elizabeth Bishop. 


In the three decades since her death in 1979, the reputation of Elizabeth Bishop as a major American poet has increased in magnitude, even overshadowing that of her friend and coeval Robert Lowell, and eclipsing that of John Berryman, whose work seems now somewhat unjustly ignored by critics, students and general readers. 


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From Edward.Byrne  Thu Nov 29 15:02:59 2007
From: Edward.Byrne (Edward Byrne)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:02:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Top Ten List at "One Poet's Notes"
In-Reply-To: <8CA00D812CB2590-234-6D80@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA00D812CB2590-234-6D80@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474EC692.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu>

This week "One Poet's Notes," the editor's blog for _Valparaiso Poetry
Review_, has moved past its 100th post.  Therefore, as a re-introduction
and an invitation to new readers who would like to browse through those
most visited pages of the past posts on ?One Poet?s Notes,? I have
submitted a ?top ten list? of titles viewed (determined solely
according to frequency figures from site meter statistics) by users of
?One Poet?s Notes? beyond the usual entry points of the
blog?s main page or the most recently posted item.  To view the
list of top ten most popular posts: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/



--------------------------------------------------

Edward Byrne
Department of English
322 Huegli Hall
Valparaiso University
Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493

E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu
Home Page:
http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/
Blog:
http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/

Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review
E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu
VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/
Office Phone: (219) 464-5278
Fax: (219) 464-5511

--------------------------------------------------



From jforjames  Thu Nov 29 16:45:11 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:45:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hass, Pinsky, Herbert in a dead heat
Message-ID: <8CA00E8409CBF60-16E4-709D@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com>


http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/search/label/Best%20Recommended%201

Wednesday, November 28, 2007
Introducing the NBCC's Best Recommended 



BEFORE the internet, book recommendations traveled at the rate of sound. You had to talk to someone to pass on word about what to read. Or read it in a review. Or write a letter. Now you can go to the website of a newspaper, a magazine, or a literary blog to find out what's new and what's good.

But with all this connectivity, it felt like a moment had yet to be seized about finding out what a lot of people said was good. And what better people to ask than award winning novelists, historians, poets, critics and biographers?


These are the pie-in-the-sky notions that prompted the National Book Critics Circle to create a monthly Best Recommended List. Polling our nearly 800 members, as well as all the former finalists and winners of our book prize, we asked, What 2007 books have you read that you have truly loved? 


Nearly 500 voters?from John Updike and Robert Hass to Carolyn Forche, Anne Tyler, Julia Alvarez and Cynthia Ozick?answered the call. Over 300 of our member critics voted as well. Starting in 2008, we plan to offer our Best Recommended List every month. Here is our inaugural list

Poetry

1. Robert Hass, Time and Materials: Poems 1997?2005* (HarperCollins)
2. Zbigniew Herbert, Collected Poems: 1956-1998 (Ecco)*
3. Robert Pinsky, Gulf Music (Farrar, Straus & Giroux)*
4. Rae Armantrout, Next Life (Wesleyan University Press)
5. Mary Jo Bang, Elegy (Graywolf)

*There was a three-way tie for first place in poetry


OTHER VOTE GETTERS
http://bookcriticscircle.blogspot.com/2007/11/long-long-long-list-for-poetry.html

________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From jkotin  Thu Nov 29 16:51:50 2007
From: jkotin (Joshua Kotin)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:51:50 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] New at Chicago Review + Holiday Offer
Message-ID: <FDAEAEBB-EF9C-436C-A4FD-9C229ABA4A5F@uchicago.edu>

Chicago Review has posted some new material to its website: http:// 
humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/review/

+ the first part of C.D. Wright's "Rising, Falling, Hovering."  (The  
second half of which appears in the current issue.  A prose note by  
C.D. on the poem will appear in the next issue.)

+ the full four-part exchange between John Wilkinson and Peter Riley,  
beginning with Wilkinson's review of Simon Jarvis's The  
Unconditional.  (Peter Riley's end note --- a reading list of  
Cambridge poetry --- is exclusive to the web.)

+ the first part of Kent Johnson's twelve-part critical novella on  
recent poetry books from the UK, a review of Andrew Duncan.  (The  
current installment is on J.H. Prynne, the next will be on Tim Atkins.)

+ + + +

Still up and available for download: "Numbers Trouble" by Juliana  
Spahr and Stephanie Young --- and Jennifer Ashton's response.

Also up: reviews of Eliot Weinberger, Frederick Seidel, Harryette  
Mullen, Zak Smith, and Kevin Connolly.

+ + + +

Please consider subscribing to Chicago Review or giving a  
subscription as a gift for the holidays.  As a special offer we'll  
give you one free back issue for every year you subscribe: a five- 
year subscription gets the last five issues plus the current number.

Issues on offer:

51:1/2 + Christopher Middleton
51:3 + Birds (C.D. Wright, Ray DiPalma, etc.)
51:4/52:1 + Lisa Robertson
52:2/3/4 + Kenneth Rexroth
53:1 + British Poetry Issue

Please note the issue or issues of choice in the comments field when  
you subscribe.

Offer expires 12/25/7.


Many thanks from Chicago!



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

Chicago Review
5801 South Kenwood Avenue
Chicago Illinois 60637

http://humanities.uchicago.edu/orgs/review/

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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 29 17:58:59 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:58:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hass, Pinsky, Herbert in a dead heat
In-Reply-To: <8CA00E8409CBF60-16E4-709D@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA00E8409CBF60-16E4-709D@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474F4433.4040408@nut-n-but.net>

The NBCC list really makes me proud to be a member of NBCC.  I didn't 
vote, so--gosh--I shouldn't gripe, should I?  Actually, I couldn't, 
because I don't remember books by year of publication.  No reason for me 
to vote, anyway, since no book I'd ever vote for would get a second vote 
at NBCC.

I sent the NBCC president some suggestions, though, so maybe 
improvements will be made.  One is a list of recommended books, period, 
instead of recommended books from whatever year it is.  I do see that 
that might be unwieldy but who knows until it's tried.  I also suggested 
having an NBCC website where each NBCC member could do a piece on one 
favorite book, with reasons it's that.  I didn't suggest that a prize be 
given to the piece voted by NBCC members the most interesting, but that 
might be nice.

--Bob




From jforjames  Thu Nov 29 18:12:57 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:12:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Suarez noses out Lifshin in Stakes,
 crowd favorite Collins well off the pace
Message-ID: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.dustbooks.com/sweep.htm

>From the Directory of Poetry Publishers
23rd Edition, 2007-2008

One of the things I ask editors in the annual survey form from which this directory of poetry publishers is compiled is to name five poets whom that editor has published recently. Of course there are many ways to measure a poet?s popularity. This is just one of them.

I?ve been compiling this list and calling it the ?Sweepstakes? for twenty years now and each year the list comes out slightly different from the year before. First on the list this year, as last year, is Virgil Suarez of Tallahassee, Florida. Second is Lyn Lifshin of Vienna, Virginia, with Simon Perchik (Brooklyn, New York) third. Six poets are tied for fourth place.

I?m pleased that both poets, Suarez and Lifshin, wrote forewords for this 23rd edition of the Directory of Poetry Publishers. Suarez details his transition from novelist to blue-collar poet influenced by Charles Bukowski. Lifshin describes her life in poetry as an ?outsider.? Both, in my opinion, give valuable insight into the writing and publishing of poetry in the twenty-first century.


The frequency curve of statistical distribution, if you will, continues to reflect the very populism of poetry in this age. The curve is a long, flat one with the poet named most often (Suarez) getting 38 entries out of more than five thousand. As far as this directory and these responses are concerned, no single poet holds the national attention.

--Len Fulton, 2007

The top ten (actually twelve) entries go like this:


Rank?? Poet?? (Entries) 

1?????? Virgil Suarez (38)
2?????? Lyn Lifshin (37)
3?????? Simon Perchik (16)
4?????? B.Z. Niditch (15)
4?????? Billy Collins (15) 
4?????? Albert Goldbarth (15)
4?????? Walter McDonald (15) 
4?????? Denise Duhamel (15) 
4?????? Gerald Locklin (15)
5?????? W. S. Merwin (14)
5?????? John Grey (14)
5?????? Bob Hicok (14)


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Nov 29 18:40:57 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:40:57 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hass, Pinsky, Herbert in a dead heat
Message-ID: <c1d.29451bde.3480a809@cs.com>

Damn, I thought it would be George Herbert.   
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From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 29 18:48:32 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:48:32 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem With Common Words
Message-ID: <474F4FD0.6060308@opus40.org>

/*POEM IN COMMON WORDS*/

/ /

/From the Oxford English Dictionary:/

The list of top 25 nouns: *time, person, year, way, day, thing, man, 
world, life, hand, part, child, eye, woman, place, work, week, case, 
point, government, company, number, group, problem, fact.*

* *

*There comes a time in every person's life,*

*When he or she must face a crossroad, joint*

*Or several: a career, a husband, wife,*

*Serving the Lord, if you He doth anoint,*

*Or brigandage, the pistol and the knife,*

*Or pure sloth. To take a case in point,*

*Consider Olaf: we'll give him a voice,*

*The Everyman who has to make a choice.*

* *

*Consider Olaf: by vocation, plumber,*

*When first encountered, chauvinist and jerk,*

*He'd be the second lead in /Dumb and Dumber/.*

*He figures, what's a job without a perk?*

*--Takes several, but at last they've got his number,*

*It's /One too many/. Now he's out of work.*

*/Perhaps/**, he tells himself, /it's for the best./*

*/I'll take a year off, and I'll start a quest./*

*/ /*

*/What have I never tried?/** His first thought's group*

*Sex, but it turns out that presents a problem.*

*His abs and biceps long have flown the coop,*

*He's left with a physique approaching blobdom.*

*He sighs, and dips himself another scoop.*

*Were he a master thief, perhaps he'd rob them,*

*But chocolate marshmallow and licorice*

*Leave him with none but Hershey for a kiss.*

* *

*His next solution is to overthrow*

*The government -- he'll start his own conspiracy!*

*He calls Pat Robertson to raise the dough --*

*It doesn't work. He's just accused of heresy.*

*Maybe Bill Gates? No luck for our poor shmoe,*

*He has to face a rap for software piracy.*

*He's sentenced to a year and then a day,*

*He knows there's got to be a better way.*

* *

*He vows his malefactions to atone.*

*His sentence up, he's tossed out on his rump and he*

*Bounces in the direction he's been thrown.*

*Then, skidding to a stop, he hears a bump and he*

*Swivels around to find he's not alone,*

*In fact, our Olaf's got himself some company.*

*A soft, warm hand is holding his, a human*

*Touch, a sympathetic eye: in short, a woman.*

* *

*The thing is, Olaf's found that life's not part*

*Of anything -- it is the world, the cosmos is*

*Enfolded in the place we call the heart.*

*A home, a child -- we find it by osmosis,*

*Not once a week, but every day -- we start*

*And end with just this thought; it's more than gnosis,*

*It's Zen, it's karma, everything we're hot for,*

*Our Olaf has become a bodhisattva.*

* *

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

The moral is this: in American verse,
The better you are, the pay is worse.
  --Corey Ford

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From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 29 19:02:52 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:02:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Top Ten List at "One Poet's Notes"
In-Reply-To: <474EC692.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu>
References: <8CA00D812CB2590-234-6D80@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>
	<474EC692.7112.006E.0@valpo.edu>
Message-ID: <474F532C.4060400@opus40.org>

Edward -- this is a wonderful collection of essays, and I'm reading 
them, 1 through 10, with much pleasure (left a comment on the Roethke 
essay). 


Edward Byrne wrote:
> This week "One Poet's Notes," the editor's blog for _Valparaiso Poetry
> Review_, has moved past its 100th post.  Therefore, as a re-introduction
> and an invitation to new readers who would like to browse through those
> most visited pages of the past posts on ?One Poet?s Notes,? I have
> submitted a ?top ten list? of titles viewed (determined solely
> according to frequency figures from site meter statistics) by users of
> ?One Poet?s Notes? beyond the usual entry points of the
> blog?s main page or the most recently posted item.  To view the
> list of top ten most popular posts: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Edward Byrne
> Department of English
> 322 Huegli Hall
> Valparaiso University
> Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493
>
> E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/
> Blog:
> http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/
>
> Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review
> E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu
> VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/
> Office Phone: (219) 464-5278
> Fax: (219) 464-5511
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

The moral is this: in American verse,
The better you are, the pay is worse.
  --Corey Ford




From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 29 19:12:58 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:12:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Suarez noses out Lifshin in Stakes,crowd favorite
	Collins well off the pace
In-Reply-To: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474F558A.7030505@nut-n-but.net>

This is more about being prolific than being popular, although it's 
somewhat the latter, too.  How many serious poets submit to 36 or 37 
magazines in a year?  A more interesting list would be of the three 
poets each editor would most like to have published.

--Bob

jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> http://www.dustbooks.com/sweep.htm
> From the Directory of Poetry Publishers
> 23rd Edition, 2007-2008
> One of the things I ask editors in the annual survey form from which 
> this directory of poetry publishers is compiled is to name five poets 
> whom that editor has published recently. Of course there are many ways 
> to measure a poet?s popularity. This is just one of them.
> I?ve been compiling this list and calling it the ?Sweepstakes? for 
> twenty years now and each year the list comes out slightly different 
> from the year before. First on the list this year, as last year, is 
> Virgil Suarez of Tallahassee, Florida. Second is Lyn Lifshin of 
> Vienna, Virginia, with Simon Perchik (Brooklyn, New York) third. Six 
> poets are tied for fourth place.
> I?m pleased that both poets, Suarez and Lifshin, wrote forewords for 
> this 23rd edition of the Directory of Poetry Publishers. Suarez 
> details his transition from novelist to blue-collar poet influenced by 
> Charles Bukowski. Lifshin describes her life in poetry as an 
> ?outsider.? Both, in my opinion, give valuable insight into the 
> writing and publishing of poetry in the twenty-first century.
>
> The frequency curve of statistical distribution, if you will, 
> continues to reflect the very populism of poetry in this age. The 
> curve is a long, flat one with the poet named most often (Suarez) 
> getting 38 entries out of more than five thousand. As far as this 
> directory and these responses are concerned, no single poet holds the 
> national attention.
> --Len Fulton, 2007
> The top ten (actually twelve) entries go like this:
>
> Rank   Poet   (Entries)
> 1       Virgil Suarez (38)
> 2       Lyn Lifshin (37)
> 3       Simon Perchik (16)
> 4       B.Z. Niditch (15)
> 4       Billy Collins (15)
> 4       Albert Goldbarth (15)
> 4       Walter McDonald (15)
> 4       Denise Duhamel (15)
> 4       Gerald Locklin (15)
> 5       W. S. Merwin (14)
> 5       John Grey (14)
> 5       Bob Hicok (14)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail 
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 29 19:22:50 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:22:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Suarez noses out Lifshin in Stakes,crowd favorite
	Collins well off the pace
In-Reply-To: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <474F57DA.40607@nut-n-but.net>

I bet Collins got mentioned by every editor who published him.

--Bob G.




From Rsgwynn1  Thu Nov 29 19:45:24 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:45:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Suarez noses out Lifshin in Stakes,
	crowd favorite Collins we...
Message-ID: <d3d.1a406cc1.3480b724@cs.com>

It used to be Walter McDonald, but he's slowed down now that he's a senior 
citizen.   
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From Opus40-01  Thu Nov 29 20:58:06 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:58:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Suarez noses out Lifshin in Stakes,crowd favorite
	Collins well off the pace
In-Reply-To: <474F558A.7030505@nut-n-but.net>
References: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com>
	<474F558A.7030505@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <474F6E2E.9030802@opus40.org>

And an even more interesting list than that would be the ten greatest 
Brooklyn Dodgers of all time, or the ten healthiest foods that also 
taste good.

I thought this list was fun. I'd also like to see a list of the three 
poets each editor would most like to have published, but I don't see why 
you can only have one of the other.

Bob Grumman wrote:
> This is more about being prolific than being popular, although it's 
> somewhat the latter, too.  How many serious poets submit to 36 or 37 
> magazines in a year?  A more interesting list would be of the three 
> poets each editor would most like to have published.
>
> --Bob
>
> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>> http://www.dustbooks.com/sweep.htm
>> From the Directory of Poetry Publishers
>> 23rd Edition, 2007-2008
>> One of the things I ask editors in the annual survey form from which 
>> this directory of poetry publishers is compiled is to name five poets 
>> whom that editor has published recently. Of course there are many 
>> ways to measure a poet?s popularity. This is just one of them.
>> I?ve been compiling this list and calling it the ?Sweepstakes? for 
>> twenty years now and each year the list comes out slightly different 
>> from the year before. First on the list this year, as last year, is 
>> Virgil Suarez of Tallahassee, Florida. Second is Lyn Lifshin of 
>> Vienna, Virginia, with Simon Perchik (Brooklyn, New York) third. Six 
>> poets are tied for fourth place.
>> I?m pleased that both poets, Suarez and Lifshin, wrote forewords for 
>> this 23rd edition of the Directory of Poetry Publishers. Suarez 
>> details his transition from novelist to blue-collar poet influenced 
>> by Charles Bukowski. Lifshin describes her life in poetry as an 
>> ?outsider.? Both, in my opinion, give valuable insight into the 
>> writing and publishing of poetry in the twenty-first century.
>>
>> The frequency curve of statistical distribution, if you will, 
>> continues to reflect the very populism of poetry in this age. The 
>> curve is a long, flat one with the poet named most often (Suarez) 
>> getting 38 entries out of more than five thousand. As far as this 
>> directory and these responses are concerned, no single poet holds the 
>> national attention.
>> --Len Fulton, 2007
>> The top ten (actually twelve) entries go like this:
>>
>> Rank   Poet   (Entries)
>> 1       Virgil Suarez (38)
>> 2       Lyn Lifshin (37)
>> 3       Simon Perchik (16)
>> 4       B.Z. Niditch (15)
>> 4       Billy Collins (15)
>> 4       Albert Goldbarth (15)
>> 4       Walter McDonald (15)
>> 4       Denise Duhamel (15)
>> 4       Gerald Locklin (15)
>> 5       W. S. Merwin (14)
>> 5       John Grey (14)
>> 5       Bob Hicok (14)
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail 
>> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

The moral is this: in American verse,
The better you are, the pay is worse.
  --Corey Ford




From jforjames  Thu Nov 29 21:04:24 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:04:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <CD27AB8A-2907-4157-A275-4142B9345840@ripon.edu>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>	<474DE7CF.2030108@nut-n-but.net>
	<CD27AB8A-2907-4157-A275-4142B9345840@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8CA010C770419FA-234-833F@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>




Language poetry is certainly an established movement at this point in time. 

?

I think there are parallels between the initial reception language poetry got and the reception that abstract expressionist painting received at the outset. Initially abstract expression was simplistically dismissed for its lack of representation, as though the painters somehow couldn?t do representation, though they all started in that vein. Language poetry was similarly slammed for its lack of narrative or being wholly without meaning.

?

But a major distinction is that the abstract expressions claimed spiritual and emotional roots for their work. Language poets claimed, in the main, to be avoiding spiritual and emotional content. They wanted to disassociate their poetry from messy psychological or spiritual underpinnings, especially if it tied the work to any specific context/content. They were more concerned with exposing that language was a compromised tool of capitalism, or subverting the artifice of narrative, or using the language for solely conceptual purposes. 

Both movements attracted (or had in among their numbers) able critics who were vigorous and intelligent promoters of their work.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 5:32 pm
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry



If I were so foolish as to attempt a definition of Language Poetry, I might start with the Messerli anthology that I previously referred to. ?His introduction is online, and I recommend a look to anyone interested in the topic:





http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/messerli/essays/messerli_language_poetries.html




As good a succinct definition as any I've seen is this passage of Messerli's:




"These poets have all foregrounded language itself as the project of their writing. For these writers, language is not something that explains or translates experience, but is the source of experience. Language is perception, thought itself; and in that context the poems of these writers do not function as "frames" of experience or brief narrative summaries of ideas or emotions as they do for many current poets."


Reprinted from "Language" Poetries: An Anthology, Edited with an Introduction by Douglas Messerli. (New York: New Directions, 1987). ?1987 by Douglas Messerli.












________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov 29 21:49:34 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:49:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Suarez noses out Lifshin in Stakes,
	crowd favoriteCollins well off the pace
In-Reply-To: <474F6E2E.9030802@opus40.org>
References: <8CA00F4834698EC-E78-7627@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com><474F558A.7030505@nut-n-but.net>
	<474F6E2E.9030802@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <474F7A3E.3000805@nut-n-but.net>



TheOldMole wrote:
> And an even more interesting list than that would be the ten greatest 
> Brooklyn Dodgers of all time, or the ten healthiest foods that also 
> taste good.
>
> I thought this list was fun. I'd also like to see a list of the three 
> poets each editor would most like to have published, but I don't see 
> why you can only have one of the other.

Where did I say that would be the case, Mole?  I would add that I 
obviously was speaking of lists concerned with the same things the 
original list is--for a publication about poetry publishers.

--Bob
>
> Bob Grumman wrote:
>> This is more about being prolific than being popular, although it's 
>> somewhat the latter, too.  How many serious poets submit to 36 or 37 
>> magazines in a year?  A more interesting list would be of the three 
>> poets each editor would most like to have published.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>> jforjames at aol.com wrote:
>>> http://www.dustbooks.com/sweep.htm
>>> From the Directory of Poetry Publishers
>>> 23rd Edition, 2007-2008
>>> One of the things I ask editors in the annual survey form from which 
>>> this directory of poetry publishers is compiled is to name five 
>>> poets whom that editor has published recently. Of course there are 
>>> many ways to measure a poet?s popularity. This is just one of them.
>>> I?ve been compiling this list and calling it the ?Sweepstakes? for 
>>> twenty years now and each year the list comes out slightly different 
>>> from the year before. First on the list this year, as last year, is 
>>> Virgil Suarez of Tallahassee, Florida. Second is Lyn Lifshin of 
>>> Vienna, Virginia, with Simon Perchik (Brooklyn, New York) third. Six 
>>> poets are tied for fourth place.
>>> I?m pleased that both poets, Suarez and Lifshin, wrote forewords for 
>>> this 23rd edition of the Directory of Poetry Publishers. Suarez 
>>> details his transition from novelist to blue-collar poet influenced 
>>> by Charles Bukowski. Lifshin describes her life in poetry as an 
>>> ?outsider.? Both, in my opinion, give valuable insight into the 
>>> writing and publishing of poetry in the twenty-first century.
>>>
>>> The frequency curve of statistical distribution, if you will, 
>>> continues to reflect the very populism of poetry in this age. The 
>>> curve is a long, flat one with the poet named most often (Suarez) 
>>> getting 38 entries out of more than five thousand. As far as this 
>>> directory and these responses are concerned, no single poet holds 
>>> the national attention.
>>> --Len Fulton, 2007
>>> The top ten (actually twelve) entries go like this:
>>>
>>> Rank   Poet   (Entries)
>>> 1       Virgil Suarez (38)
>>> 2       Lyn Lifshin (37)
>>> 3       Simon Perchik (16)
>>> 4       B.Z. Niditch (15)
>>> 4       Billy Collins (15)
>>> 4       Albert Goldbarth (15)
>>> 4       Walter McDonald (15)
>>> 4       Denise Duhamel (15)
>>> 4       Gerald Locklin (15)
>>> 5       W. S. Merwin (14)
>>> 5       John Grey (14)
>>> 5       Bob Hicok (14)
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail 
>>> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>! 
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>   
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>   
>




From Rsgwynn1  Thu Nov 29 23:38:09 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:38:09 EST
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20[New-Poetry]=20Elizabeth=20Bishop=E2=80=99s=20un?=
	=?UTF-8?Q?published=20poems,=20reviewed=20by=20Mariyn=20Hac...?=
Message-ID: <c3d.259b097e.3480edb1@cs.com>

Edgar Allen Poe?  Good lord.   
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From cstroffo  Fri Nov 30 03:14:26 2007
From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:14:26 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Language Poetry
In-Reply-To: <8CA010C770419FA-234-833F@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>
References: <619727.22664.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<D5EA3414-88F0-4A38-B7A1-76EB9323A70F@ripon.edu>	<474DE7CF.2030108@nut-n-but.net>
	<CD27AB8A-2907-4157-A275-4142B9345840@ripon.edu>
	<8CA010C770419FA-234-833F@webmail-stg-d10.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9D8FA51C-89C0-4421-A7B6-F41659B47344@earthlink.net>

And both movements (Abstract Expressionism and Langpo), if understood  
as movements, also had a tendency to excommunicate certain writings  
(or writers) from their definitions of the proper..... Clement  
Greenberg's criticism of Grace Hartigan's bringing the figure into  
her abstract paintings for instance (which did lead to Frank O'Hara  
taking up her cause), even though W. DeKooning--who he continued to  
champion--had moved in a similar direction (with the women paintings,  
etc), and one can see similar tendencies in the L poets (a la  
Breton....)
Well, at least, one could say, they were honest about it, put their  
inclusions and exclusions in their writing (which may be refreshing  
compared to other cliques...may...), and some defend their judgmental  
exclusions on the grounds that they were misunderstood first, a  
'defensive snobbery' and such,
but that's kind of a chicken-egg question.  And I don't mean to sound  
defensively snobby myself, just trying to be detached from it, like  
drying my tears after the Eagles most recent loss to the  
"Pats"....ah, the sport of it all.

C

On Nov 29, 2007, at 6:04 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote:

> Both movements attracted (or had in among their numbers) able  
> critics who were vigorous and intelligent promoters of their work.
> Finnegan

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From alexdickow9  Fri Nov 30 07:40:33 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 04:40:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] lowell, bishop, berryman
In-Reply-To: <200711300658.lAU6wv5G020880@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <444984.17547.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

John Berryman ignored in favor of Lowell and
Bishop?!??!
What a horrible idea.
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From cervantes.james  Fri Nov 30 08:51:38 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:51:38 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem With Common Words
In-Reply-To: <474F4FD0.6060308@opus40.org>
References: <474F4FD0.6060308@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60711300551u19c2e9cs874bc8c1c80c8a17@mail.gmail.com>

Pedestrian

This time of year, a person can easily waste a day or a week
considering what thing to buy for a woman, man, or child.
In this case, part of the problem is the government,
group, or company one works for.  One hand
takes what another provides, if you get my point.
The fact is, one must keep an eye out when stepping
off the curb and not place yourself in the way
of an Olaf and be part of that number
losing a life in this holiday world.

- Jim

On 11/29/07, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> POEM IN COMMON WORDS
>
>
>
> From the Oxford English Dictionary:
>
> The list of top 25 nouns: time, person, year, way, day, thing, man, world,
> life, hand, part, child, eye, woman, place, work, week, case, point,
> government, company, number, group, problem, fact.
>
>
>
> There comes a time in every person's life,
>
> When he or she must face a crossroad, joint
>
> Or several: a career, a husband, wife,
>
> Serving the Lord, if you He doth anoint,
>
> Or brigandage, the pistol and the knife,
>
> Or pure sloth. To take a case in point,
>
> Consider Olaf: we'll give him a voice,
>
> The Everyman who has to make a choice.
>
>
>
> Consider Olaf: by vocation, plumber,
>
> When first encountered, chauvinist and jerk,
>
> He'd be the second lead in Dumb and Dumber.
>
> He figures, what's a job without a perk?
>
> --Takes several, but at last they've got his number,
>
> It's One too many. Now he's out of work.
>
> Perhaps, he tells himself, it's for the best.
>
> I'll take a year off, and I'll start a quest.
>
>
>
> What have I never tried? His first thought's group
>
> Sex, but it turns out that presents a problem.
>
> His abs and biceps long have flown the coop,
>
> He's left with a physique approaching blobdom.
>
> He sighs, and dips himself another scoop.
>
> Were he a master thief, perhaps he'd rob them,
>
> But chocolate marshmallow and licorice
>
> Leave him with none but Hershey for a kiss.
>
>
>
> His next solution is to overthrow
>
> The government ? he'll start his own conspiracy!
>
> He calls Pat Robertson to raise the dough ?
>
> It doesn't work. He's just accused of heresy.
>
> Maybe Bill Gates? No luck for our poor shmoe,
>
> He has to face a rap for software piracy.
>
> He's sentenced to a year and then a day,
>
> He knows there's got to be a better way.
>
>
>
> He vows his malefactions to atone.
>
> His sentence up, he's tossed out on his rump and he
>
> Bounces in the direction he's been thrown.
>
> Then, skidding to a stop, he hears a bump and he
>
> Swivels around to find he's not alone,
>
> In fact, our Olaf's got himself some company.
>
> A soft, warm hand is holding his, a human
>
> Touch, a sympathetic eye: in short, a woman.
>
>
>
> The thing is, Olaf's found that life's not part
>
> Of anything ? it is the world, the cosmos is
>
> Enfolded in the place we call the heart.
>
> A home, a child ? we find it by osmosis,
>
> Not once a week, but every day ? we start
>
> And end with just this thought; it's more than gnosis,
>
> It's Zen, it's karma, everything we're hot for,
>
> Our Olaf has become a bodhisattva.
>
>   --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> The moral is this: in American verse,
> The better you are, the pay is worse.
>  --Corey Ford
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>




From cervantes.james  Fri Nov 30 09:03:15 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 07:03:15 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem With Common Words
In-Reply-To: <474F4FD0.6060308@opus40.org>
References: <474F4FD0.6060308@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <648208b60711300603t5e7ed214n62e1b113d11e60b2@mail.gmail.com>

langpo version:

world life
day week year
man woman part
child problem case
work place thing
eye time hand point way
person number group
government company fact

- Jim, again

On 11/29/07, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> POEM IN COMMON WORDS
>
>
>
> From the Oxford English Dictionary:
>
> The list of top 25 nouns: time, person, year, way, day, thing, man, world,
> life, hand, part, child, eye, woman, place, work, week, case, point,
> government, company, number, group, problem, fact.
>
>
>
> There comes a time in every person's life,
>
> When he or she must face a crossroad, joint
>
> Or several: a career, a husband, wife,
>
> Serving the Lord, if you He doth anoint,
>
> Or brigandage, the pistol and the knife,
>
> Or pure sloth. To take a case in point,
>
> Consider Olaf: we'll give him a voice,
>
> The Everyman who has to make a choice.
>
>
>
> Consider Olaf: by vocation, plumber,
>
> When first encountered, chauvinist and jerk,
>
> He'd be the second lead in Dumb and Dumber.
>
> He figures, what's a job without a perk?
>
> --Takes several, but at last they've got his number,
>
> It's One too many. Now he's out of work.
>
> Perhaps, he tells himself, it's for the best.
>
> I'll take a year off, and I'll start a quest.
>
>
>
> What have I never tried? His first thought's group
>
> Sex, but it turns out that presents a problem.
>
> His abs and biceps long have flown the coop,
>
> He's left with a physique approaching blobdom.
>
> He sighs, and dips himself another scoop.
>
> Were he a master thief, perhaps he'd rob them,
>
> But chocolate marshmallow and licorice
>
> Leave him with none but Hershey for a kiss.
>
>
>
> His next solution is to overthrow
>
> The government ? he'll start his own conspiracy!
>
> He calls Pat Robertson to raise the dough ?
>
> It doesn't work. He's just accused of heresy.
>
> Maybe Bill Gates? No luck for our poor shmoe,
>
> He has to face a rap for software piracy.
>
> He's sentenced to a year and then a day,
>
> He knows there's got to be a better way.
>
>
>
> He vows his malefactions to atone.
>
> His sentence up, he's tossed out on his rump and he
>
> Bounces in the direction he's been thrown.
>
> Then, skidding to a stop, he hears a bump and he
>
> Swivels around to find he's not alone,
>
> In fact, our Olaf's got himself some company.
>
> A soft, warm hand is holding his, a human
>
> Touch, a sympathetic eye: in short, a woman.
>
>
>
> The thing is, Olaf's found that life's not part
>
> Of anything ? it is the world, the cosmos is
>
> Enfolded in the place we call the heart.
>
> A home, a child ? we find it by osmosis,
>
> Not once a week, but every day ? we start
>
> And end with just this thought; it's more than gnosis,
>
> It's Zen, it's karma, everything we're hot for,
>
> Our Olaf has become a bodhisattva.
>
>   --
> Tad Richards
> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>
> The moral is this: in American verse,
> The better you are, the pay is worse.
>  --Corey Ford
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/




From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 30 10:39:38 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:39:38 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem With Common Words
References: <474F4FD0.6060308@opus40.org>
	<648208b60711300551u19c2e9cs874bc8c1c80c8a17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c83367$37f636f0$dda93452@ANNY>

It's called Free Will _you can choose what to buy and what not to buy. Fact 
is that a new mohair coat or sweater of the colors of the sky or patched 
with the colors of autumn leaves or icy white or fire red or pearl gray is 
more beautiful than the one you had the previous year, that is the problem, 
with aestheticism, comfort, coziness, self-gratifying moments. Stoicism is 
far off the curb.

From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:51 PM


> Pedestrian
>
> This time of year, a person can easily waste a day or a week
> considering what thing to buy for a woman, man, or child.
> In this case, part of the problem is the government,
> group, or company one works for.  One hand
> takes what another provides, if you get my point.
> The fact is, one must keep an eye out when stepping
> off the curb and not place yourself in the way
> of an Olaf and be part of that number
> losing a life in this holiday world.
>
> - Jim
>
> On 11/29/07, TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> POEM IN COMMON WORDS
>>
>>
>>
>> From the Oxford English Dictionary:
>>
>> The list of top 25 nouns: time, person, year, way, day, thing, man, 
>> world,
>> life, hand, part, child, eye, woman, place, work, week, case, point,
>> government, company, number, group, problem, fact.
>>
>>
>>
>> There comes a time in every person's life,
>>
>> When he or she must face a crossroad, joint
>>
>> Or several: a career, a husband, wife,
>>
>> Serving the Lord, if you He doth anoint,
>>
>> Or brigandage, the pistol and the knife,
>>
>> Or pure sloth. To take a case in point,
>>
>> Consider Olaf: we'll give him a voice,
>>
>> The Everyman who has to make a choice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Consider Olaf: by vocation, plumber,
>>
>> When first encountered, chauvinist and jerk,
>>
>> He'd be the second lead in Dumb and Dumber.
>>
>> He figures, what's a job without a perk?
>>
>> --Takes several, but at last they've got his number,
>>
>> It's One too many. Now he's out of work.
>>
>> Perhaps, he tells himself, it's for the best.
>>
>> I'll take a year off, and I'll start a quest.
>>
>>
>>
>> What have I never tried? His first thought's group
>>
>> Sex, but it turns out that presents a problem.
>>
>> His abs and biceps long have flown the coop,
>>
>> He's left with a physique approaching blobdom.
>>
>> He sighs, and dips himself another scoop.
>>
>> Were he a master thief, perhaps he'd rob them,
>>
>> But chocolate marshmallow and licorice
>>
>> Leave him with none but Hershey for a kiss.
>>
>>
>>
>> His next solution is to overthrow
>>
>> The government ? he'll start his own conspiracy!
>>
>> He calls Pat Robertson to raise the dough ?
>>
>> It doesn't work. He's just accused of heresy.
>>
>> Maybe Bill Gates? No luck for our poor shmoe,
>>
>> He has to face a rap for software piracy.
>>
>> He's sentenced to a year and then a day,
>>
>> He knows there's got to be a better way.
>>
>>
>>
>> He vows his malefactions to atone.
>>
>> His sentence up, he's tossed out on his rump and he
>>
>> Bounces in the direction he's been thrown.
>>
>> Then, skidding to a stop, he hears a bump and he
>>
>> Swivels around to find he's not alone,
>>
>> In fact, our Olaf's got himself some company.
>>
>> A soft, warm hand is holding his, a human
>>
>> Touch, a sympathetic eye: in short, a woman.
>>
>>
>>
>> The thing is, Olaf's found that life's not part
>>
>> Of anything ? it is the world, the cosmos is
>>
>> Enfolded in the place we call the heart.
>>
>> A home, a child ? we find it by osmosis,
>>
>> Not once a week, but every day ? we start
>>
>> And end with just this thought; it's more than gnosis,
>>
>> It's Zen, it's karma, everything we're hot for,
>>
>> Our Olaf has become a bodhisattva.
>>
>>   --
>> Tad Richards
>> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
>> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
>>
>> The moral is this: in American verse,
>> The better you are, the pay is worse.
>>  --Corey Ford
>> 




From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 30 11:10:29 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:10:29 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Haunting the Prehistoric
Message-ID: <005101c8336b$8715cfd0$dda93452@ANNY>

forwarding from Joel Weishaus:

My latest piece of Digital Literary Art:
http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Ghosts/title.htm

-Joel


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jforjames  Fri Nov 30 11:26:43 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:26:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Lee Min-yung 
Message-ID: <8CA0184EE05F126-F18-F63@WEBMAIL-MC06.sysops.aol.com>


http://taiwanreview.nat.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=24952&CtNode=119
A Life Devoted to Poetry

Poet Lee Min-yung (Photo by Huang Chung-hsin)
Publication Date?12/01/2007
Byline?JOYCE HUANG


Lee Min-yung is accepting an award for his achievements on behalf of a generation of post-war poets. 


Lee Min-yung knew early in life he would be a poet. Both he and his former schoolmate Tseng Kuei-hi recall a chance meeting in front of Kaohsiung Railway Station four decades ago, when Lee declared that both aspiring poets must hold on to their poetic ideals. "Let's spare no effort to compose poems with soul," he said. 


After four decades of passion and devotion to poetry, Lee has been rewarded with a proud sense of self-achievement--and this year's National Award for Arts in literature, the highest honor for a writer in Taiwan. 


Tseng, who continued to write poetry even as he pursued a career as a thoracic doctor, sees Lee's poem The Darkroom as a metaphor for a generation of post-war Taiwanese poets. He says the presentation of the award to Lee is bringing light to the "darkroom" generation. 


"Lee is the one who pushed the door open and his award also represents great recognition for the genre created by post-war poets in Taiwan," says Tseng, adding that he shared the honor as a post-war poet--one who tried to redirect the history of Taiwanese poetry, once dominated by China-oriented ideology, so that it could take root and blossom in Taiwanese soil. 



FYI>>>LOOKING UP ANOTHER TAIWANESE POET BROUGHT ME TO THIS SITE:

http://www.renditions.org/renditions/

________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From jforjames  Fri Nov 30 11:14:31 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:14:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] WorldPo: Juan Gelman
Message-ID: <8CA0183396CBE26-F18-E80@WEBMAIL-MC06.sysops.aol.com>


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ixtKWhpjtn6qckJK53hp9DwDN9_QD8T7JU7O0

Argentine Poet Wins Literature Prize
By MAR ROMAN ? 16 hours ago 


MADRID, Spain (AP) ? Argentine poet Juan Gelman, who wrote about the pain of loss under his country's military juntas, has won the Cervantes Prize, the Spanish-speaking world's top literary award.


The $133,000 award was announced Thursday by Spanish Culture Minister Cesar Antonio Molina.

Gelman, 77, has published more than 20 books of poetry since 1956, and is widely considered to be Argentina's leading contemporary poet


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
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From jorgensen_a  Thu Nov  1 03:16:19 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 00:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Issue seven of Otoliths is now online
Message-ID: <647624.46897.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Issue seven of Otoliths has just gone live. It's as
eclectic as ever, but that means there's something
there for everybody.  Lined up in this issue are
Sheila E. Murphy, Nico Vassilakis, Anny Ballardini,
Vernon Frazer, Matina L. Stamatakis, Geof Huth, Matt
Hetherington, derek beaulieu, Andrew Taylor, Nigel
Long,   Marko Niemi, Michael Steven, Anne Heide, Mark
Prejsnar, M?rton Kopp?ny, Jim Leftwich, Catherine
Daly, Bill Drennan, Julian Jason Haladyn, Alexander
Jorgensen, Jeff Harrison, Paul Siegell, Robert
Gauldie, Martin Edmond, Raymond Farr, John M. Bennett,
John M. Bennett & Friends, Andrew Topel & John M.
Bennett, Andrew Topel, Mark Cunningham, Jeff Crouch,
Randall Brock, Eileen R. Tabios, Jordan Stempleman,  
Daniel f. Bradley, Lars Palm, harry k stammer, Karri
Kokko, Katrinka Moore, Tom Hibbard, dan raphael &
David-Baptiste Chirot. It's what Hieronymous Bosch
dreamt about, a Garden of Earthly Delights.

--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."



From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 09:37:35 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:37:35 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <47291847.30308@opus40.org>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>

'A lot of it is good,' would be one of those 'bad blurbs'?one could envision on her multi-volume collected poems set
(which I don't think will ever appear, unless her heirs publish it). A poet like Lifshin becomes a kind of curiousity
really. What is this need to fill every nook & cranny of small litmag world with your precious poetry? There
is something sad and needy about her career. Years ago when I edited a small journal (and I mean micro
small) we'd get 2-3 submissions from Lifshin a month. We'd get several envelopes stuffed with well-circulated ms.
pages (in the days before word processors, it wasn't easy to keep clean drafts in the mail) before we'd
even gotten around to rejecting?prior batches we had on hand.? 

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Prolific poetry


There's Lyn Lifshin. No one could be more prolific than she, and a lot of it is good.?
?



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jeff.newberry  Thu Nov  1 09:55:20 2007
From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:55:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading in Athens, GA
Message-ID: <731bb17a0711010655x2f5ab309r92ca4daa752190f2@mail.gmail.com>

VOX Reading Series at Athens Cine <http://athenscine.com/intro.php>,
11.06.07

Featuring the poetry and fiction of Sian Griffiths, Heather Matesich
Cousins, Andy Frazee, Matt Forsythe, & Jeff Newberry:

Si?n Griffiths earned her PhD in English with a creative writing emphasis at
the University of Georgia, Athens in May 2006 and now serves as Assistant
Professor of English at Piedmont College. Her creative work is forthcoming
in Ninth Letter <http://www.ninthletter.com/> and Mangrove
Review<http://mangrovereview.fgcu.edu/about.asp>and has appeared in
Quarterly
West <http://www.webdelsol.com/Quarterly_West/>, River Teeth: A Journal of
Nonfiction Narrative<http://www3.ashland.edu/academics/arts_sci/english/riverteeth/index2.htm>,
The River Oak Review <http://www.riveroakreview.org/>,
Versal<http://www.wordsinhere.com/>,
Clackamas Literary Review <http://www.clackamasliteraryreview.org/>, Court
Green <http://english.colum.edu/courtgreen/> and The Georgia
Review<http://www.uga.edu/garev/>.
She is currently revising her first novel, *Borrowed Horses*, which retells
the story of Charlotte Bront?'s Jane Eyre (with some twists) set in
contemporary Idaho.

Heather Matesich Cousins is a PhD student from Michigan. Her poetry has been
published in La Petite Zine <http://www.lapetitezine.org/>, Staccato, and
the Dunes Review <http://www.michwriters.org/publications.asp>. She is a
graduate of Bryn Mawr College and the Johns Hopkins Writing Seminars. She
has recently sent out into the world her first manuscript, *Something in the
Potato Room*. She sent it out in its best shoes and with change for the bus
and pay phone. She's not sure whether--or how--it will come back to her.

Andy Frazee is a PhD student in English and Creative Writing at the
University of Georgia and holds an MFA from the University of Illinois. His
poetry has appeared or is forthcoming in 1913: a journal of
forms<http://www.journal1913.org/>,
Faultline <http://www.humanities.uci.edu/faultline/>,
Rhino<http://www.rhinopoetry.org/>,
and The Sycamore Review <http://sycamorereview.com/>, and has also been
nominated for a Pushcart Prize.

At any given moment, Matt Forsythe would rather be deep in the Appalachians
or Rockies. Right now, he's midway though his third year in the PhD program
at UGA, and his hiking takes place while daydreaming over stacks of grading
at Borders. Prior to his arrival in Athens, Matt studied at the University
of Tennessee and Calvin College.

A student in the Creative Writing Program at UGA, Jeff Newberry is an
Assistant Professor of English at Abraham Baldwin College in Tifton,
Gerogia. His poems and essays have appeared in
storySouth<http://www.storysouth.com/>,
Copper Nickel <http://www.copper-nickel.org/>, and The Eleventh
Muse<http://www.poetrywest.org/muse.htm>.
Upcoming work will appear in The Cortland
Review<http://www.cortlandreview.com/>and Barn
Owl Review <http://www.barnowlreview.com/>. Find his blog at
http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/





Best,
Jeff Newberry

-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From anny.ballardini  Thu Nov  1 09:59:56 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:59:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>

I didn't know this phenomenon:
Lyn Lifshin has written more than 100 books

from the following page:
http://www.lynlifshin.com/

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 2:37 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


  'A lot of it is good,' would be one of those 'bad blurbs' one could envision on her multi-volume collected poems set
  (which I don't think will ever appear, unless her heirs publish it). A poet like Lifshin becomes a kind of curiousity
  really. What is this need to fill every nook & cranny of small litmag world with your precious poetry? There
  is something sad and needy about her career. Years ago when I edited a small journal (and I mean micro
  small) we'd get 2-3 submissions from Lifshin a month. We'd get several envelopes stuffed with well-circulated ms.
  pages (in the days before word processors, it wasn't easy to keep clean drafts in the mail) before we'd
  even gotten around to rejecting prior batches we had on hand.  

  Finnegan

  -----Original Message-----
  From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
  Sent: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 8:05 pm
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Prolific poetry


  There's Lyn Lifshin. No one could be more prolific than she, and a lot of it is good. 
   
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 11:55:38 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:55:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4729F6FA.5050301@nut-n-but.net>



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> 'A lot of it is good,' would be one of those 'bad blurbs' one could 
> envision on her multi-volume collected poems set
> (which I don't think will ever appear, unless her heirs publish it). A 
> poet like Lifshin becomes a kind of curiousity
> really. What is this need to fill every nook & cranny of small litmag 
> world with your precious poetry? There
> is something sad and needy about her career. Years ago when I edited a 
> small journal (and I mean micro
> small) we'd get 2-3 submissions from Lifshin a month. We'd get several 
> envelopes stuffed with well-circulated ms.
> pages (in the days before word processors, it wasn't easy to keep 
> clean drafts in the mail) before we'd
> even gotten around to rejecting prior batches we had on hand. 
>
> Finnegan
>
My good friend Richard Kostelanetz is similar.  Gotta get published!  
Anywhere!  I think Lifshin has let up quite a bit of late, though.  My 
problem is the reverse.  I find it hard to make any effort at all to get 
published.  Now.  Twenty years ago, I tried a bit, got published in the 
micro-press and then let up.

--Bob




From alexdickow9  Thu Nov  1 10:57:08 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] unprolificks and prolificks
In-Reply-To: <200710311700.l9VH06Ww019767@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For a long time, bodies of work like those of
Mallarme, Hopkins and Roethke were a bit of an
inspiration for me, since they demonstrated that it
didn't take a large oeuvre to make an impact. I think
it's interesting, though, and slightly odd, how this
discussion tends to talk around issues of style
through the prism of rates of production. Comparing
Roethke to Dylan Thomas, for instance, or Ginsberg to
whoever. I'm not sure, for my part, that
numbers-of-poems-written has any necessary connection
to density of style or craft (as someone obliquely
affirmed when they stated something like, "craft and
speed of execution aren't mutually exclusive").
Mallarme, Hopkins and others would seem to suggest a
correlation, but who would the counter-examples be?
It would seem at least that a distinction should be
made between qualities of style and writing processes,
for the sake of intellectual rigor, even if such a
distinction may seem to break down.
Not to say I'm not interested in how process relates
to product. I'm of the "poems get written in part
before they get written down" camp, especially because
I have a frustratingly chronic tendancy to have my
best lines and ideas come to me as I'm trying to fall
asleep: which requires that I noisily rummage in my
nightstand for a penlight, pen and paper before the
tasty morsel slips away forever -- to my wife's
dismay....
Back to studying my latin, foax. Don't think I added
much to the discussion, but it was fun piping up....
Amicalement,
Alex


www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From grahamd  Thu Nov  1 11:37:16 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:37:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: unprolificks and prolificks
In-Reply-To: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <483C3F21-F8FF-4503-8819-D3EBD5DE4F6E@ripon.edu>

Yes, lots of different issues are getting thrown into the mix here.   
I was mostly interested in what daily practice can do for a poet,  
what doors it may or may not open, but other matters do get swept  
together pretty quickly.

For instance, yes, it's good to remember that rate of production  
isn't the same thing as rate of publishing, though obviously someone  
like Lifshin couldn't publish so much if she didn't first write it.   
I wonder if she ever writes anything she doesn't at least seek to  
print.  Some writers present the public with the tip of the iceberg,  
but I suspect Lifshin's all iceberg.

As pathologies go, hers seems fairly benign under the aspect of  
eternity, and probably no more neurotic than that of the obsessive  
perfectionist never letting a poem go.

Another issue is how much crafting/revision takes place after  
something is drafted.  Which I do think is a separate matter from the  
prolific/restrained polarity, but it's easy to see why they get  
conflated.  There are many poets who clearly write a lot without much  
apparent revision (Bukowski, O'Hara), and even some (Ginsberg) who  
are oddly proud of that fact.

Not sure there are tons who write sparingly, then also don't revise,  
but apparently Billy Collins would be one example. He claims not to  
revise much, just getting poems down in one fell swoop.  Yet he's not  
a Lifshin in terms of rate of publication or, evidently, rate of  
production.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be shocked if Lifshin revises much.   
Someone mentioned that David Lehman's journal poems didn't look too  
worked-over, and I'd agree.  Love it or hate it, that's part of his  
intention; he's attempting an update of O'Hara's "I do this I do  
that" poems.

It may be an entirely subjective quality, but I do think there may be  
a certain fluency of style that comes as much from prolific practice  
as it does from endless revision.  It's all very good to talk about  
the art that conceals its artfulness and all that, but to my ears  
Yeats's poems sound quite different from someone like O'Hara's.   
There's a chiseled-in-rock quality to Yeats that can be very great,  
clearly, but there's an Ariel-like quality to the best O'Hara that  
can also be great.

I sometimes tell poetry workshop classes that I am highly suspicious  
of final portfolios that have not been revised, but that there are  
two broad ways to revise:  write and rewrite a single poem 10 times,  
or write 10 poems & select the best one.  Seems to me that both are  
equally valid methods of revision. And obviously many gradations &  
variations between the extremes.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Alexander Dickow wrote:

> For a long time, bodies of work like those of
> Mallarme, Hopkins and Roethke were a bit of an
> inspiration for me, since they demonstrated that it
> didn't take a large oeuvre to make an impact. I think
> it's interesting, though, and slightly odd, how this
> discussion tends to talk around issues of style
> through the prism of rates of production. Comparing
> Roethke to Dylan Thomas, for instance, or Ginsberg to
> whoever. I'm not sure, for my part, that
> numbers-of-poems-written has any necessary connection
> to density of style or craft (as someone obliquely
> affirmed when they stated something like, "craft and
> speed of execution aren't mutually exclusive").
> Mallarme, Hopkins and others would seem to suggest a
> correlation, but who would the counter-examples be?
> It would seem at least that a distinction should be
> made between qualities of style and writing processes,
> for the sake of intellectual rigor, even if such a
> distinction may seem to break down.
> Not to say I'm not interested in how process relates
> to product. I'm of the "poems get written in part
> before they get written down" camp, especially because
> I have a frustratingly chronic tendancy to have my
> best lines and ideas come to me as I'm trying to fall
> asleep: which requires that I noisily rummage in my
> nightstand for a penlight, pen and paper before the
> tasty morsel slips away forever -- to my wife's
> dismay....
> Back to studying my latin, foax. Don't think I added
> much to the discussion, but it was fun piping up....
> Amicalement,
> Alex
>
>
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>
>   les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>   merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 13:52:45 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:52:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: unprolificks and prolificks
In-Reply-To: <483C3F21-F8FF-4503-8819-D3EBD5DE4F6E@ripon.edu>
References: <621178.83783.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<483C3F21-F8FF-4503-8819-D3EBD5DE4F6E@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <472A126D.1030909@nut-n-but.net>



David Graham wrote:
> Yes, lots of different issues are getting thrown into the mix here.  I 
> was mostly interested in what daily practice can do for a poet, what 
> doors it may or may not open, but other matters do get swept together 
> pretty quickly.
>
> For instance, yes, it's good to remember that rate of production isn't 
> the same thing as rate of publishing, though obviously someone like 
> Lifshin couldn't publish so much if she didn't first write it.  I 
> wonder if she ever writes anything she doesn't at least seek to 
> print.  Some writers present the public with the tip of the iceberg, 
> but I suspect Lifshin's all iceberg.
>
Sorry, David, but I HAD to correct you: she's all tip.  . . . I think.  
Now I'm confused.  No, that's right.  She's all tip.

As for daily routines, I have one for my blog entries, but I don't see 
that it's helping me any--except when I get into a subject I can extend 
for many entries.  That does help me into a groove, I think.  I tried 
doing a new poem daily for the blog and got some I thought good done 
that way, and a few poor ones, but ran out of gas after two weeks or so.

I pretty much agree with everything else you said.

--Bob G.




From amparker  Thu Nov  1 14:33:02 2007
From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:33:02 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] lurker in agreement
Message-ID: <422697E842112241BE9562D58752234E17C306D5@beagle.davidson.edu>

Hi, folks.

I've enjoyed this discussion of dailiness and dalliance. Thanks.

David's notion of "write and rewrite a single poem 10 times, or write 10 poems & select the best one" led me to think about poets who tend to revise "by addition" or "by subtraction." Are you one or the other, one early in the process and the other later? Both, of course, is the answer, but perhaps too easy....

In my writing life, a poem a day is a great gift, but usually doesn't last long. I too don't last long after an extended period of a poem-a-day: such intensity tends to make me nutso.

I think, as well, that the question of writing while we we're doing other things is some of what Keats asks in "Nightingale": which life is waking and which life is sleeping?

Cheers.
AMP




From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 18:58:18 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:58:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>

Anny,
100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to browse thru Poet's Market or 
Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone 
they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them stated: "We resisted publishing 
Lyn Lifshin."

Finnegan-

----Original Message-----

From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 9:59 am
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome



I didn't know this phenomenon:

Lyn Lifshin has written more than 100 books

?

from the following page:

http://www.lynlifshin.com/

?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 19:08:12 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:08:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Sunken Garden Poetry Festival Returns to
	Hill-Stead
In-Reply-To: <5eb9bc8309a31c91cb222b621cd7dd11@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5eb9bc8309a31c91cb222b621cd7dd11@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <8C9EAF335D9B434-43C-2A26@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Cynthia Cagenello <cagenelloc at hillstead.org>
To: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 3:31 pm
Subject: Sunken Garden Poetry Festival Returns to Hill-Stead


















?



?

























SUNKEN GARDEN POETRY FESTIVAL RETURNS 

Hill-Stead Museum names Jeffrey Levine the Festival's new Artistic Director 

Hill-Stead's summer-long Sunken Garden Poetry Festival, the museum's largest public program, will return in the summer of 2008 following a one-year hiatus. Jeffrey Levine, poet, publisher and teacher, has assumed the role of Artistic Director for the 16th season of the Festival, which will include some of the most talented poets and musicians in the country. Levine will be responsible for organizing the Festival and for spearheading a fundraising campaign to ensure that it thrives.

Historically, the Sunken Garden Poetry Festival has charmed an audience of more than 5,000 each summer, and has engaged a listening audience of 1,250,000 via National Public Radio's Weekend Edition Saturday and five Connecticut public radio stations. New to the 2008 program will be pre-performance discussions and conversations with the artists.

Jeffrey Levine is the founder of Tupelo Press (www.tupelopress.org), an independent literary press located in Dorset, VT, and one of the most important publishers of poetry and literary fiction in the country. An award-winning poet, Levine has an MFA in poetry and teaches English at Kingswood-Oxford School in West Hartford, CT. "I look forward to helping produce a summer filled with delight and inspiration for our many current fans," commented Levine, "and to enchant those who have yet to discover this venue that Galway Kinnell has called 'a little paradise for poetry'."

Stay tuned for more information and a 2008 schedule, and plan on joining us once again in the summer of 2008 for world-renowned poetry and music in Hill-Stead's Sunken Garden!

Visit www.hillstead.org often and you won't miss a thing!












? 









This message was sent from Cynthia Cagenello to jforjames at aol.com. It was sent from: Hill-Stead Museum, 35 Mountain Road, Farmington, CT 06032. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.

















Manage your subscription



 

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From cervantes.james  Thu Nov  1 19:53:12 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:53:12 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Anny,
>  100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> browse thru Poet's Market or
>  Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting
> 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>  they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> stated: "We resisted publishing
>  Lyn Lifshin."

My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
James, when I edited Porch (print):  The monthly assault of Lyn
Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.

However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review.  We don't boast
about it but the poems are in the archives:
http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
poems, IMHO.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 20:37:48 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:37:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>

Jim,
As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of her merits as much as what are the motives...
1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified canonical.?(for the future)
2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel important. It's the way
I self-actualize.?(for the now)
3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome



On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Anny,
>  100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> browse thru Poet's Market or
>  Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting
> 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>  they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> stated: "We resisted publishing
>  Lyn Lifshin."

My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
James, when I edited Porch (print):  The monthly assault of Lyn
Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.

However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review.  We don't boast
about it but the poems are in the archives:
http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
poems, IMHO.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 20:41:24 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:41:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] TS Eliot prize short listers
Message-ID: <8C9EB003B03D9CE-43C-2F32@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>


http://books.guardian.co.uk/tseliotprize/story/0,,2203406,00.html
First collection vies with established names for TS Eliot prize


Sarah Crown
Thursday November 1, 2007
Guardian Unlimited 


The shortlist in full:
The Speed of Dark by Ian Duhig (Picador)
Hawks and Doves by Alan Gillis (Gallery Press)
Pessimism for Beginners by Sophie Hannah (Carcanet)
The Meanest Flower by Mimi Khalvati (Carcanet)
Public Dreams by Frances Leviston (Picador)
The Pomegranates of Kandahar by Sarah Maguire (Chatto & Windus)
A Book of Lives by Edwin Morgan (Carcanet) 
The Drowned Book by Sean O'Brien (Picador)
Common Prayer by Fiona Sampson (Carcanet)
Black Moon by Matthew Sweeney (Jonathan Cape)

________________________________________________________________________
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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 22:19:56 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:19:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <472A894C.3030708@nut-n-but.net>

For tomorrow's blog entry, I tried turning prose to free verse as I 
spoke of earlier in this thread.  The result wasn't terribly good, and I 
really didn't turn the prose to verse, but it wasn't worthless.  I think 
I can later make a decent poem of it.  Once I've figured it out.

*Poem, Caught In Prose*

Poem didn't mind prose, but he was in
the mood for poetry, and
extremely not
in the mood for the humdrum prose he
had found himself
in:

"Some of Lyn Lifshin's work I
think good, but it makes me
wonder: I do a blog entry a day,
and have done something like
1300 entries.  If I cut all the
prose entries up into free verse,
and diddled the wording a little
here and there, I'd be prolific,
too, and I think most of the
results would have something of
interest in them, albeit not much
poetry, by my standards.  That's
sort of how I feel about her work."

So Poem thrashed encumbrance
fully-charged into his
situation, clamorously
and mutedly both, engendering:

"In the slumb and thrust
of Lyn Lifshin's hurtle past
the tollhoused lives
of the good, 1300 entries later
than lace and laceration, a dry brown
flag was all that broke the
grey intelligence of the sky.

"The flag, wonder-weary, cut
through to faint freedoms
scarlet-voiced against
the imminence of a February
of philosophical interest
but little poetry."

And the prose was no more--
not diddled slightly
askew, but no more. 
Poem was content.

--Bob G.

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From bobgrumman  Thu Nov  1 22:22:31 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:22:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <472A89E7.5020906@nut-n-but.net>



jforjames at aol.com wrote:
> Jim,
> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
> her merits as much as what are the motives...
> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be 
> certified canonical. (for the future)
> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me 
> feel important. It's the way
> I self-actualize. (for the now)
> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
> Finnegan
>
How about 4. I love to write poetry, and what else should I do with it 
when I'm finished with it but send it out to others?

--Bob G.




From jforjames  Thu Nov  1 21:44:36 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:44:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <472A89E7.5020906@nut-n-but.net>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<472A89E7.5020906@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <8C9EB090EF4CDA6-43C-31F7@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>



>?
How about 4. I love to write poetry, and what else should I do with it when I'm finished with it but send it out to others??

--
No harm in that. I'm being too hard on her, I'm sure. There are far worse foibles than excessive poetry publishing.
The interesting thing is that one person can't keep up anymore. With both online and in print journals, even if you 
tried to overwhelm the system with submissions, you'd wouldn't make a dent.?You'd have to have a studio full of 
apprentices pounding away on keyboards in two shifts per day to even get noticed anymore or to make onesefl a 
nuisance.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


?
jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
> Jim,?
> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of > her merits as much as what are the motives...?
> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be > certified canonical. (for the future)?
> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me > feel important. It's the way?
> I self-actualize. (for the now)?
> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)?
> Finnegan?
>?
How about 4. I love to write poetry, and what else should I do with it when I'm finished with it but send it out to others??
?
--Bob G.?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
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From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov  2 04:17:02 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:17:02 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com><002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003501c81d28$bf972470$35ab3852@ANNY>

Jeez, just the time to look up 10thousand magazines, forget about writing and posting... 
  From: jforjames at aol.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 11:58 PM


  Anny,
  100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to browse thru Poet's Market or 
  Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags boasting 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone 
  they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them stated: "We resisted publishing 
  Lyn Lifshin."

  Finnegan-

  ----Original Message-----

  From: Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 9:59 am
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


  I didn't know this phenomenon:
  Lyn Lifshin has written more than 100 books

  from the following page:
  http://www.lynlifshin.com/
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From atelierjewelweed  Fri Nov  2 07:36:53 2007
From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:36:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>

I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
something that is obvious:

WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
head and never revises?

Inquiring minds want to know.

For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
instant blonde.

My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.

Suzanne

On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> Jim,
>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of her
> merits as much as what are the motives...
>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
> canonical. (for the future)
>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
> important. It's the way
>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>  Finnegan
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> > Anny,
> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> > browse thru Poet's Market or
> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
> boasting
> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> > stated: "We resisted publishing
> > Lyn Lifshin."
>
> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>
> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
> about it but the poems are in the archives:
> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
> poems, IMHO.
>
> -- Jim
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> ~
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



From gejs1  Fri Nov  2 09:46:36 2007
From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:46:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201c81d56$ca12c5c0$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b>

Perhaps her system is the way she works
in themes--sometimes for a decade or so.
When I met her in the '80's, there were the
Madonna poems...

Gerald S.

> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
>> important. It's the way
>>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>  Finnegan
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin."
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>>
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 




From cervantes.james  Fri Nov  2 10:30:29 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:30:29 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Prolific poetry
In-Reply-To: <D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <648208b60711020730m675ae6e6of63235ae347daa24@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>
>
> But as Jarrell suggested in his comment on Stevens, writing a lot,
> regularly, does seem to lubricate the gears.

The musical analogy might shed a little light.  When a musician
practices for hours every day, he or she is not just practicing the
pieces that will be performed publically but different exercises,
etudes, challenging passages etc.  So, in essence, none of musician's
daily music making is for "publication," but for the sake of
maintaining one's "chops" so that when performance time comes and
nothing can be taken back,  the musician can deliver the best possible
performance (doesn't always work, as we know).

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov  2 13:53:23 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 18:53:23 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com><D5161A44-0682-4CAF-9E64-F0116DD5CC20@ripon.edu><8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com><47291847.30308@opus40.org><8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com><002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY><8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com><648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com><8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>

This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote. 
She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they 
were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
away, just like a painter.

From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
>> important. It's the way
>>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>  Finnegan
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin."
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>>
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 





From atelierjewelweed  Fri Nov  2 15:06:47 2007
From: atelierjewelweed (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:06:47 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>
	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>
	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>
	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>
	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>
	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>

LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems but the
poems of others.  Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, and I have
cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror so that I can
read them while brushing my teeth.  Also have them tacked up over the light
switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop to read for a bit.

Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time with
drafts of my poems.  There are too many people stampeding through my house
nowadays for that to work out well.

Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands



On 11/2/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
> This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote.
> She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if
> they
> were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took
> away, just like a painter.
>
> From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
> poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>
>
> > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> > something that is obvious:
> >
> > WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> > head and never revises?
> >
> > Inquiring minds want to know.
> >
> > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> > find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> > instant blonde.
> >
> > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> > results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> > of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> >> Jim,
> >>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of
> >> her
> >> merits as much as what are the motives...
> >>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be
> certified
> >> canonical. (for the future)
> >>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me
> feel
> >> important. It's the way
> >>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
> >>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
> >>  Finnegan
> >>
> >>  -----Original Message-----
> >>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
> >>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
> >>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
> >>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
> >> > Anny,
> >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
> >> > browse thru Poet's Market or
> >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
> >> boasting
> >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
> >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
> >> > stated: "We resisted publishing
> >> > Lyn Lifshin."
> >>
> >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
> >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
> >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
> >>
> >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
> >> about it but the poems are in the archives:
> >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
> >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
> >> poems, IMHO.
> >>
> >> -- Jim
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> >> ~
> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
> >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
> >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>  ________________________________
> >>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From millb  Fri Nov  2 15:26:50 2007
From: millb (millb at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:26:50 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
	<bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>

When I taught, I used to post a "Poem of the Week" on my office door, for students to ponder while they were waiting to see me.? They came to expect it and, when I forgot to put up a new one, they would complain.




-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Burns <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
Bcc: millb at aol.com
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems but the poems of others.? Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, and I have cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror so that I can read them while brushing my teeth.? Also have them tacked up over the light switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop to read for a bit. 

Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time with drafts of my poems.? There are too many people stampeding through my house nowadays for that to work out well.

Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands 




On 11/2/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote.
She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they
were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
away, just like a painter.

From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >


> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF???Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her 
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.??I know I can do it-??I 
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying 
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.??With good
> results.??But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.??*Sigh* I need a secretary.
> 
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>??As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>??1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>??2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel 
>> important. It's the way
>>??I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>??3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>??Finnegan
>>
>>??-----Original Message----- 
>>??From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
>>??Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>??Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm 
>>??Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <jforjames at aol.com > wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags 
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin." 
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>> 
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html 
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html 
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/ 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>??________________________________
>>??Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


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From amyhappens  Fri Nov  2 15:49:33 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Weekend Warriors!  New Work Up ...
In-Reply-To: <8C9EB090EF4CDA6-43C-31F7@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <441019.49815.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

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From jjeffreymail  Fri Nov  2 17:25:17 2007
From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <255068.86104.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It's my first post to this list and, unbelievably, I find myself having to defend Lyn Lifshin, a poet I neither know, admire, nor--to be honest--give a shiatsu about.  Still, I don't see why anyone cares how much she writes or submits.  And while the wonder whether she writes down every thought or never edits may or may not be true, that doesn't explain the fact that she's been published so much.  We'd have to rattle a thousand editors' doors about that.  She only submits; they choose to publish.

(Of course, the answer why they publish her is simple if you've ever sat and read a pile of submissions.  Most of it is amateurish, muddled, and unpublishable.  I've read some of Lifshin's stuff, and it's not horrible.  So she gets published because her stuff still in the sifter after some vigorous shaking.)

But please, how could prolific writing be a negative?  For her or anyone?  You write and write and write and then...  What?  Have you emptied the juice box?  Is that all you've got?  No mas?  Mo mas? 

Or is the issue that you wrote all that--took all that time--and it might be awful.  Well, let's tear off the wrapper and look: Yep; it's awful.  Except for that line there...  And maybe that little thought, yes...  And--Oooo--isn't that a nice phrase?...  Next time, let's leap from that verb--and write and write again.

It's not a simple numbers game, no.  But it is a matter of exercise and practice and rummaging new closets.  What effort doesn't improve with repetition?  The music analogy was apt, as would a sports analogy, or painting, or programming, or cooking, or throwing tomatoes at an opera singer.

Okay. I've got to get back to work; all this writing has made me eager to do nothing.

Now, where can I submit this?

John J

P.S., If Lifshin's promiscuous publishing makes people scratch,  any thoughts on Bukowski, who's published about a half dozen books of "new" poetry since his death?  (I almost put those quotation marks around the word poetry in the sentence above:  Does that give away my opinion of Bukowski?)



Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote: This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote. 
She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they 
were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
away, just like a painter.

From: "Suzanne Burns" 
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


> I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
> something that is obvious:
>
> WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
> those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
> head and never revises?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
> find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do it-  I
> edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
> when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
> instant blonde.
>
> My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
> together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times.  With good
> results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
> of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>
> Suzanne
>
> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com  wrote:
>> Jim,
>>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
>> her
>> merits as much as what are the motives...
>>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
>> canonical. (for the future)
>>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
>> important. It's the way
>>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>>  Finnegan
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: James Cervantes 
>>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
>>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com  wrote:
>> > Anny,
>> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
>> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
>> boasting
>> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
>> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>> > Lyn Lifshin."
>>
>> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>>
>> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
>> poems, IMHO.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>  ________________________________
>>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


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From Opus40-01  Fri Nov  2 17:34:29 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:34:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>	<bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <472B97E5.6090208@opus40.org>

What a neat idea.

millb at aol.com wrote:
> When I taught, I used to post a "Poem of the Week" on my office door, 
> for students to ponder while they were waiting to see me.  They came 
> to expect it and, when I forgot to put up a new one, they would complain.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suzanne Burns <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>
> Bcc: millb at aol.com
> Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>
> LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems 
> but the poems of others.  Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, 
> and I have cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror 
> so that I can read them while brushing my teeth.  Also have them 
> tacked up over the light switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop 
> to read for a bit.
>
> Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time 
> with drafts of my poems.  There are too many people stampeding through 
> my house nowadays for that to work out well.
>
> Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands
>
>
>
> On 11/2/07, *Anny Ballardini* <anny.ballardini at tin.it 
> <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>> wrote:
>
>     This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik
>     wrote.
>     She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls
>     as if they
>     were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added
>     or took
>     away, just like a painter.
>
>     From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com
>     <mailto:atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>>
>     poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >
>
>
>     > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
>     > something that is obvious:
>     >
>     > WTF?  Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
>     > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops
>     into her
>     > head and never revises?
>     >
>     > Inquiring minds want to know.
>     >
>     > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big
>     deal-- I
>     > find it hard to stay organized and motivated.  I know I can do
>     it-  I
>     > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
>     > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
>     > instant blonde.
>     >
>     > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were
>     studying
>     > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all
>     times.  With good
>     > results.  But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
>     > of course.  *Sigh* I need a secretary.
>     >
>     > Suzanne
>     >
>     > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>> wrote:
>     >> Jim,
>     >>  As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a
>     question of
>     >> her
>     >> merits as much as what are the motives...
>     >>  1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be
>     certified
>     >> canonical. (for the future)
>     >>  2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me,
>     makes me feel
>     >> important. It's the way
>     >>  I self-actualize. (for the now)
>     >>  3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
>     >>  Finnegan
>     >>
>     >>  -----Original Message-----
>     >>  From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com
>     <mailto:cervantes.james at gmail.com>>
>     >>  Bcc: jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     >>  Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
>     >>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>
>     <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com> > wrote:
>     >> > Anny,
>     >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda
>     laughable to
>     >> > browse thru Poet's Market or
>     >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many
>     litmags
>     >> boasting
>     >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
>     >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one
>     of them
>     >> > stated: "We resisted publishing
>     >> > Lyn Lifshin."
>     >>
>     >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
>     >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
>     >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
>     >>
>     >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
>     >> about it but the poems are in the archives:
>     >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
>     <http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html>
>     >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of
>     solid
>     >> poems, IMHO.
>     >>
>     >> -- Jim
>     >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>     <http://www.poetserv.org/>
>     >> ~
>     >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>     >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
>     >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
>     <http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html>
>     >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>     <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejvcervantes/>
>     >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
>     <http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> New-Poetry mailing list
>     >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>  ________________________________
>     >>  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free
>     AOL Mail!
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> New-Poetry mailing list
>     >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >>
>     >>
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > New-Poetry mailing list
>     > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>     >
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!
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-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From millb  Fri Nov  2 18:04:02 2007
From: millb (millb at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:04:02 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <472B97E5.6090208@opus40.org>
References: <c70.1db91575.34592995@aol.com>	<8C9E9F1E9A126DC-D70-2357@webmail-mf12.sysops.aol.com>	<47291847.30308@opus40.org>	<8C9EAA37F3B0100-6F4-66BE@FWM-M27.sysops.aol.com>	<002901c81c8f$7c18cbc0$1b8e3052@ANNY>	<8C9EAF1D3EF9D76-43C-299B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<648208b60711011653h73f5d793la1df0de9d5592254@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EAFFBA621BE2-43C-2EF6@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com>	<bda48ea50711020436s5e585b8fhde656f36bea2e982@mail.gmail.com>	<001a01c81d79$43b23560$31ac3452@ANNY>	<bda48ea50711021206v31918ffcr57e2b370cce66927@mail.gmail.com>	<8C9EB9D73785FDB-1370-2ED@webmail-de20.sysops.aol.com>
	<472B97E5.6090208@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9EBB369631C91-760-45F0@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com>

Thanks!

Of course, I had a few "loose" parameters. I tried not to go crazy though.

1) no more than?one page
2) from recent literary journals, not anthologies (when I could)
3) by people who are alive
4) when I could, I selected "topical" poems (about current events or, for example, WS Merwin's "Berryman" the first week back to school.? 
5) I listed where the poems came from (Poetry, Kenyon Review, etc.)
6) if I had room on the page, I added biographical info or an author photo

It was my little way of exposing students to poetry--

Some weeks, it was also a way of subversively making a statement (like posting a poem dealing with honesty when a certain politician lied)

Another trick I did in poetry and lit classes was I brought IN the BOOKS themselves when we discussed an anthor from an anthology.? I would use the book to read aloud, instead of the anthology (drove students to ask questions and to want to SEE the cover and the rest of the work)


-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: millb at aol.com
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


What a neat idea.?
?
millb at aol.com wrote:?
> When I taught, I used to post a "Poem of the Week" on my office door, > for students to ponder while they were waiting to see me. They came > to expect it and, when I forgot to put up a new one, they would complain.?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Suzanne Burns <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>?
> Bcc: millb at aol.com?
> Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:06 pm?
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome?
>?
> LOL interesting-- I do that quite frequently, not just with my poems > but the poems of others. Right now I am reading a lot of Dickinson, > and I have cutouts of her poems tacked up next to the bathroom mirror > so that I can read them while brushing my teeth. Also have them > tacked up over the light switches-- when I turn on the lights I stop > to read for a bit.?
>?
> Back when I actually had my space to myself, I did that all the time > with drafts of my poems. There are too many people stampeding through > my house nowadays for that to work out well.?
>?
> Suzanne, longing to be a hermit with lots of time on her hands?
>?
>?
>?
> On 11/2/07, *Anny Ballardini* <anny.ballardini at tin.it > <mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it>> wrote:?
>?
> This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik?
> wrote.?
> She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls?
> as if they?
> were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added?
> or took?
> away, just like a painter.?
>?
> From: "Suzanne Burns" <atelierjewelweed at gmail.com?
> <mailto:atelierjewelweed at gmail.com>>?
> poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >?
>?
>?
> > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking?
> > something that is obvious:?
> >?
> > WTF? Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of?
> > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops?
> into her?
> > head and never revises??
> >?
> > Inquiring minds want to know.?
> >?
> > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big?
> deal-- I?
> > find it hard to stay organized and motivated. I know I can do?
> it- I?
> > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but?
> > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....?
> > instant blonde.?
> >?
> > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were?
> studying?
> > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all?
> times. With good?
> > results. But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems?
> > of course. *Sigh* I need a secretary.?
> >?
> > Suzanne?
> >?
> > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>?
> <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>> wrote:?
> >> Jim,?
> >> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a?
> question of?
> >> her?
> >> merits as much as what are the motives...?
> >> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be?
> certified?
> >> canonical. (for the future)?
> >> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me,?
> makes me feel?
> >> important. It's the way?
> >> I self-actualize. (for the now)?
> >> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)?
> >> Finnegan?
> >>?
> >> -----Original Message-----?
> >> From: James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com?
> <mailto:cervantes.james at gmail.com>>?
> >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>?
> >> Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm?
> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome?
> >>?
> >>?
> >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com>?
> <jforjames at aol.com <mailto:jforjames at aol.com> > wrote:?
> >> > Anny,?
> >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda?
> laughable to?
> >> > browse thru Poet's Market or?
> >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many?
> litmags?
> >> boasting?
> >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone?
> >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one?
> of them?
> >> > stated: "We resisted publishing?
> >> > Lyn Lifshin."?
> >>?
> >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,?
> >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn?
> >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.?
> >>?
> >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast?
> >> about it but the poems are in the archives:?
> >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html?
> <http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html>?
> >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of?
> solid?
> >> poems, IMHO.?
> >>?
> >> -- Jim?
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?
> >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org?
> <http://www.poetserv.org/>?
> >> ~?
> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning?
> >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf?
> >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html?
> <http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html>?
> >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/?
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejvcervantes/>?
> >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/?
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> New-Poetry mailing list?
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> >>?
> >>?
> >> ________________________________?
> >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free?
> AOL Mail!?
> >>?
> >> _______________________________________________?
> >> New-Poetry mailing list?
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> >>?
> >>?
> > _______________________________________________?
> > New-Poetry mailing list?
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> >?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970>!?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


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From elemenope_productions  Fri Nov  2 19:01:45 2007
From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:01:45 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin
In-Reply-To: <200711021700.lA2H06Ww031619@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711021700.lA2H06Ww031619@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU103-W87F3CD1DEED44F4511587908D0@phx.gbl>


Lin Lifshin and Charles Bukowskishare a kind of marathon simularity.
 
At least she never committed or plots treason
against the United States of America
 
Which for certain leading female leaders
in arts or politics is a sine qua non.
 
She doesn't write for you,
she looks in the mirror
 
And writes to the person
she sees in there. 
 
----------
R.E. Dillon
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033
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From robin.hamilton2  Fri Nov  2 23:26:45 2007
From: robin.hamilton2 (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 03:26:45 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin
References: <200711021700.lA2H06Ww031619@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<BLU103-W87F3CD1DEED44F4511587908D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <007701c81dc9$5e0a6270$0202a8c0@CoreDuo>

Richard:

<<
She doesn't write for you,
she looks in the mirror

And writes to the person
she sees in there.
>>

Why not cut it back to just these last four lines (perhaps with a title)? --  
That's a poem in itself.

(And perhaps drop the "in" in the final line -- "she sees there.")

Robin 




From suelin6787  Sat Nov  3 05:38:57 2007
From: suelin6787 (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 04:38:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
References: <255068.86104.qm@web54109.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c81dfd$5c2fb160$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Welcome John J...I agree with your opinion of Bukowski.  With Lifshin, anyone who attracts attention for any reason will have detractors.  I thought I once read that her frenzy to publish began after she was rejected by a PhD program.

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Jeffrey 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome


  It's my first post to this list and, unbelievably, I find myself having to defend Lyn Lifshin, a poet I neither know, admire, nor--to be honest--give a shiatsu about.  Still, I don't see why anyone cares how much she writes or submits.  And while the wonder whether she writes down every thought or never edits may or may not be true, that doesn't explain the fact that she's been published so much.  We'd have to rattle a thousand editors' doors about that.  She only submits; they choose to publish.

  (Of course, the answer why they publish her is simple if you've ever sat and read a pile of submissions.  Most of it is amateurish, muddled, and unpublishable.  I've read some of Lifshin's stuff, and it's not horrible.  So she gets published because her stuff still in the sifter after some vigorous shaking.)

  But please, how could prolific writing be a negative?  For her or anyone?  You write and write and write and then...  What?  Have you emptied the juice box?  Is that all you've got?  No mas?  Mo mas? 

  Or is the issue that you wrote all that--took all that time--and it might be awful.  Well, let's tear off the wrapper and look: Yep; it's awful.  Except for that line there...  And maybe that little thought, yes...  And--Oooo--isn't that a nice phrase?...  Next time, let's leap from that verb--and write and write again.

  It's not a simple numbers game, no.  But it is a matter of exercise and practice and rummaging new closets.  What effort doesn't improve with repetition?  The music analogy was apt, as would a sports analogy, or painting, or programming, or cooking, or throwing tomatoes at an opera singer.

  Okay. I've got to get back to work; all this writing has made me eager to do nothing.

  Now, where can I submit this?

  John J

  P.S., If Lifshin's promiscuous publishing makes people scratch, any thoughts on Bukowski, who's published about a half dozen books of "new" poetry since his death?  (I almost put those quotation marks around the word poetry in the sentence above:  Does that give away my opinion of Bukowski?)



  Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
    This reminds me of what I read years ago of how Alejandra Pizarnik wrote. 
    She practically kept her poems on single papers glue to the walls as if they 
    were paintings and once in a while read them over again and added or took 
    away, just like a painter.

    From: "Suzanne Burns" 
    poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


    > I'm coming into the middle of this thread, so I hope I am not asking
    > something that is obvious:
    >
    > WTF? Does she simultaneous submit like a mad demon or is she one of
    > those logorhheaic types who writes down EVERYTHING that pops into her
    > head and never revises?
    >
    > Inquiring minds want to know.
    >
    > For myself, making that leap to sending anything out is a big deal-- I
    > find it hard to stay organized and motivated. I know I can do it- I
    > edit and produce much more complicated things professionally-- but
    > when I need to do something like this for myself, pfffffffttt.....
    > instant blonde.
    >
    > My friend Karen Volkman had a real system back when we were studying
    > together-- she kept twenty poems "in the air" at all times. With good
    > results. But those were good, finished, ready to be published poems
    > of course. *Sigh* I need a secretary.
    >
    > Suzanne
    >
    > On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote:
    >> Jim,
    >> As Tad's post said, "And a lot of it was good." It's not a question of 
    >> her
    >> merits as much as what are the motives...
    >> 1) If I publish 100,000 poems before I die, certainly I'll be certified
    >> canonical. (for the future)
    >> 2) I like to see my work in print everywhere. It feeds me, makes me feel
    >> important. It's the way
    >> I self-actualize. (for the now)
    >> 3) It's my obsession. (can't stop myself)
    >> Finnegan
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: James Cervantes 
    >> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
    >> Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 7:53 pm
    >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
    >>
    >>
    >> On 11/1/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote:
    >> > Anny,
    >> > 100 books, and published in 10,000 litmags. It was kinda laughable to
    >> > browse thru Poet's Market or
    >> > Directory of Poetry Publishers (Dustbooks) and see so many litmags
    >> boasting
    >> > 'Lyn Lifshin' as someone
    >> > they'd published. It would have been more interesting if one of them
    >> > stated: "We resisted publishing
    >> > Lyn Lifshin."
    >>
    >> My previous experience with Lyn Lifshin was pretty much like yours,
    >> James, when I edited Porch (print): The monthly assault of Lyn
    >> Lifshin poems, all of them rejected.
    >>
    >> However, I did publish her in The Salt River Review. We don't boast
    >> about it but the poems are in the archives:
    >> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR27/srr27_contents.html
    >> She just happened to send a batch in which I found a couple of solid
    >> poems, IMHO.
    >>
    >> -- Jim
    >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
    >> ~
    >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
    >> ~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
    >> ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
    >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
    >> ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> New-Poetry mailing list
    >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    >>
    >>
    >> ________________________________
    >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> New-Poetry mailing list
    >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    >>
    >>
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 


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From grahamd  Sat Nov  3 12:54:28 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 11:54:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
Message-ID: <32E51DE3-D90B-4672-9CC6-E7165148E749@ripon.edu>

With the news of Jon Anderson's death I went to the library and  
checked out his 1983 new-and-selected poems, *The Milky Way*, which I  
remembered reading long ago, but not much else about it.   Nor could  
I recall any single poem by Anderson.

Here's some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene  
generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in 1988.   
Sic transit.


The Secret Of Poetry

When I was lonely, I thought of death.
When I thought of death I was lonely.

I suppose this error will continue.
I shall enter each gray morning

Delighted by frost, which is death,
& the trees that stand alone in mist.

When I met my wife I was lonely.
Our child in her body is lonely.

I suppose this error will go on & on.
Morning I kiss my wife's cold lips,

Nights her body, dripping with mist.
This is the error that fascinates.

I suppose you are secretly lonely,
Thinking of death, thinking of love.

I'd like, please, to leave on your sill
Just one cold flower, whose beauty

Would leave you inconsolable all day.
The secret of poetry is cruelty.

--Jon Anderson.  The Milky Way:  Poems 1967-1982.   Ecco, 1983.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From AlMaginnes  Sat Nov  3 15:51:26 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 15:51:26 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
Message-ID: <cec.1ebada42.345e2b3e@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/3/2007 12:54:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:

Here's  some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene  
generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in 1988.   Sic transit. 


Anderson really does seem like a poet whose moment came and went very  
quickly. of course I kept getting him confused with the singer for yes when I  was 
starting to read poetry. I found THE MILKY WAY in a used book store a year  or 
so ago and brought it home. Well worth whatever it cost. Maybe some press  
will be moved to put out a collected or an updated  selected.



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From JforJames  Sat Nov  3 17:23:50 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 17:23:50 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Lifshin Syndrome
Message-ID: <d4c.10c24190.345e40e6@aol.com>

 
Welcome, John J. 
 
I think Bukowski doesn't hold a candle to Lifshin's appearances in the  
little magazines. By number of books, they're  probably comparable. Also I'm sure 
in Bukowski's later years, he  didn't bother to submit work. It was probably 
enough trouble for him to keep up  with the multitude of litmags soliciting his 
poems/stories.
 
But the most important distinction is that Bukowski sells. Whatever  the 
reason, Bukowski has sold many books for many years,  when living and now 
posthumously. When Black Sparrow shut down,  Bukowski was the jewel in their crown. 
Some say it kept them afloat for years  beyond what the others on their list 
could have supported. Bukowski, to  his credit, must of have been the loyal sort. 
His fame was  international and he could've sold out to a New York publisher 
at any time, I'm  sure.  I think it was Ecco (by then a imprint of Harper 
Collins) that  paid, dearly I'm sure, for the rights to publish his works. I'm  
sure, in good capitalist fashion, they'll milk that investment until the  
copyrights run out.
Finnegan
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/2/2007 5:25:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
jjeffreymail at yahoo.com writes:

It's my  first post to this list and, unbelievably, I find myself having to 
defend Lyn  Lifshin, a poet I neither know, admire, nor--to be honest--give a 
shiatsu  about.  Still, I don't see why anyone cares how much she writes or  
submits.  And while the wonder whether she writes down every thought or  never 
edits may or may not be true, that doesn't explain the fact that she's  been 
published so much.  We'd  have to rattle a thousand editors' doors about that.  
She only submits;  they choose to publish.

(Of course, the answer why they publish her is  simple if you've ever sat and 
read a pile of submissions.  Most of it is  amateurish, muddled, and 
unpublishable.  I've read some of Lifshin's  stuff, and it's not horrible.  So she 
gets published because her stuff  still in the sifter after some vigorous 
shaking.)

But please, how could  prolific writing be a negative?  For her or anyone?  
You write and  write and write and then...  What?  Have you emptied the juice  
box?  Is that all you've got?  No mas?  Mo mas? 

Or is  the issue that you wrote all that--took all that time--and it might be 
 awful.  Well, let's tear off the wrapper and look: Yep; it's awful.   Except 
for that line there...  And maybe that little thought,  yes...  
And--Oooo--isn't that a nice phrase?...  Next time, let's  leap from that verb--and write 
and write again.

It's not a simple  numbers game, no.  But it is a matter of exercise and 
practice and  rummaging new closets.  What effort doesn't improve with  
repetition?  The music analogy was apt, as would a sports analogy, or  painting, or 
programming, or cooking, or throwing tomatoes at an opera  singer.

Okay. I've got to get back to work; all this writing has made  me eager to do 
nothing.

Now, where can I submit this?

John  J

P.S., If Lifshin's promiscuous publishing makes people scratch, any  thoughts 
on Bukowski, who's published about a half dozen books of "new" poetry  since 
his death?  (I almost put those quotation marks around the word  poetry in the 
sentence above:   Does that give away my opinion of Bukowski?)








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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov  3 17:25:18 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:25:18 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
References: <32E51DE3-D90B-4672-9CC6-E7165148E749@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <007001c81e60$08ec59a0$85df3652@ANNY>

The poem is beautiful and your introduction gave me the shivers. 
On a different note:
Life goes on inclemently and we spend it reading.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:54 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry


  With the news of Jon Anderson's death I went to the library and checked out his 1983 new-and-selected poems, *The Milky Way*, which I remembered reading long ago, but not much else about it.   Nor could I recall any single poem by Anderson.


  Here's some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in 1988.  Sic transit. 



  The Secret Of Poetry
               
  When I was lonely, I thought of death.
  When I thought of death I was lonely.

  I suppose this error will continue.
  I shall enter each gray morning

  Delighted by frost, which is death,
  & the trees that stand alone in mist.

  When I met my wife I was lonely.
  Our child in her body is lonely.

  I suppose this error will go on & on.
  Morning I kiss my wife's cold lips,

  Nights her body, dripping with mist.
  This is the error that fascinates.

  I suppose you are secretly lonely,
  Thinking of death, thinking of love.

  I'd like, please, to leave on your sill
  Just one cold flower, whose beauty

  Would leave you inconsolable all day.
  The secret of poetry is cruelty. 

  --Jon Anderson.  The Milky Way:  Poems 1967-1982.   Ecco, 1983.







  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu


  Home Page:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html


  Poetry Library:
  http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
  ==========================================

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From JforJames  Sat Nov  3 17:32:07 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 17:32:07 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
Message-ID: <bd6.1d73b3c8.345e42d7@aol.com>

 
My poetry reading net is less finely woven than I'd hoped, because I have  to 
admit
I don't have any recollection of reading his work.

Closer to home, In Connecticut, Curbstone Press, publishes another Jon  
Anderson...
_http://www.curbstone.org/authdetail.cfm?AuthID=151_ 
(http://www.curbstone.org/authdetail.cfm?AuthID=151) 
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 11/3/2007 3:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
AlMaginnes at aol.com writes:

 
Here's  some sort of parable of his career, and about the poetry scene  
generally:  the last person to check out this book was me, in  1988.  Sic transit. 


Anderson really does seem like a poet whose moment came and went very  
quickly. of course I kept getting him confused with the singer for yes when I  was 
starting to read poetry. I found THE MILKY WAY in a used book store a year  or 
so ago and brought it home. Well worth whatever it cost. Maybe some press  
will be moved to put out a collected or an updated  selected.



 



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From david.bircumshaw  Sun Nov  4 01:16:26 2007
From: david.bircumshaw (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 06:16:26 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] The secret of poetry
References: <bd6.1d73b3c8.345e42d7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c81eaa$3cb270e0$23c60556@windows>

>Closer to home, In Connecticut, Curbstone Press, publishes another Jon Anderson...
http://www.curbstone.org/authdetail.cfm?AuthID=151
Finnegan<

While further from home, in Australia, there was a John Anderson (1948-1997), a few of whose poems I put in A Chide's Alphabet (#2) at:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ChideTwo/FifthChiding.htm


Best

Dave
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From JforJames  Sun Nov  4 17:56:53 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 17:56:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: New Online Lit Review 
Message-ID: <c20.23d4fdcb.345fa835@aol.com>





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Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:58:48 +0000
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From jorgensen_a  Sun Nov  4 19:36:07 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 16:36:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SHAMPOO 31
Message-ID: <295025.78649.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


--- Del Ray Cross <delray at shampoopoetry.com> wrote:

> From: Del Ray Cross <delray at shampoopoetry.com>
> To: <delray at shampoopoetry.com>
> Subject: SHAMPOO 31
> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:19:55 -0800 (PST)
> 
> Dear Hair-Adorning Citizens,
> 
> Shampoo issue 31 finally has that lustrous finish.  
> 
> Check it out here:  www.ShampooPoetry.com
> 
> It???s a special postcard poems issue with Tim Yu, 
> Stephanie Young, Debbie Yee, Doreen Wang, Paul 
> Siegell, Soham Patel, Ronald Palmer, John Oakey, 
> Andy Nicholson, Laura Navratil, Mika Nagasaki, Sara 
> Mumolo, Sonia Mukherji, H.E. Mantel, Nicholas 
> Manning, Christina Lopez, Cassie Lewis, Joseph O. 
> Legaspi, Rong Lee, Rathanak Michael Keo, Scott 
> Keeney, Janine Joseph, Alexander Jorgensen, Megan 
> Hartline, Kate Hall, Kevin Griffith, Rachel Gray,
> Marco 
> Giovenale, Sarah Gambito, Emily Kendal Frey, Oliver 
> de la Paz, Peter Davis, Jennifer Dannenberg, Del Ray
> 
> Cross, Jennifer Chang, Laura Carter, Avery Burns, 
> Julian T. Brolaski, Tamiko Beyer, Luis Cuauhtemoc 
> Berriozabal, Christopher Barnes, Hossannah 
> Asuncion, Shane Allison, Helene Achanzar, and Scott 
> Abels, along with a Shampoo Postcard by Otto Chan.
> 
> Wish You Were Here,
> 
> Del Ray Cross, Editor
> SHAMPOO
> clean hair / good poetry
> www.ShampooPoetry.com
> 
> 
> (if you'd prefer not to receive these messages, just
> let me know)
> 
> 


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."



From jforjames  Sun Nov  4 19:39:50 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:39:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] eco warrior poet
Message-ID: <8C9ED5B8214FB9B-68C-558A@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com>


http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetry/features/0,,2204850,00.html

Portrait of a poet as eco warrior


The newly published letters of Ted Hughes make no mention of his political life. But nature for the former poet laureate was more than a source of poetry. Seeing his beloved rivers and moors dying pushed him into a second career - as a fearless environmental activist 

Ed Douglas
Sunday November 4, 2007
The Observer 


The publication last week of the letters of Ted Hughes has left critics crackling with excitement. Revealing, intimate, often generous, sometimes bleak, they catch the mind of a poet in the process of creation, bewildered and lost in the wreckage of his ill-starred relationships with Sylvia Plath and Assia Wevill - or offering young students advice on poetry or life. But one aspect of Hughes's life, which inspired his poetry and engaged his hunger for learning, is missing - his deep love of nature and concern for the environment.

________________________________________________________________________
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From JforJames  Sun Nov  4 21:09:06 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 21:09:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jane Cooper RIP
Message-ID: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>

Jane M. Cooper, Faculty Emerita, Helped Create SLC?s Writing  Program
Wednesday, October 31, 2007 
 
Jane Marvel Cooper, poet, Professor and Poet-in-Residence Emerita at Sarah  
Lawrence College, died peacefully at Pennswood Village, Newtown, P.A., on  
October 26th from complications due to Parkinson's Disease. 
 
Jane Cooper joined the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College in 1950, where she  
remained as a teacher and poet in residence until her retirement in 1987.  
Together with Grace Paley, Jean Valentine, Muriel Rukeyser and others, Cooper  
helped develop and enhance the College?s writing program that became one of the  
most distinguished in the country.  On her retirement after 37 years on the  
writing/literature faculty an endowed scholarship in her name was created to  
support a writing student




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From grahamd  Mon Nov  5 09:46:18 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 08:46:18 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jane Cooper RIP
In-Reply-To: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
References: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1FE752DD-B03A-4E7D-BC48-24FEE2932B27@ripon.edu>

These things are always very relative as well as subjective, but Jane  
Cooper's long been on my short list of under-appreciated poets.

Here's an early, rather uncharacteristic piece of hers I've always  
liked.

a poem with capital letters

john berryman asked me to write a poem about roosters.
elizabeth bishop, he said, once wrote a poem about roosters.
do your poems use capital letters? he asked. like god?
i said. god no, he said, like princeton! i said,
god preserve me if i ever write a poem about princeton! and i thought,
o john berryman, what has brought me into this company of poets
where the masculine thing to do is use capital letters
and even princeton's cock-a-hoop with god?s betters?

--Jane Cooper (1924-2007).  Maps & Windows.  Collier Books, 1974.   
[orig. Mercator's World: Poems 1947-1951]



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 4, 2007, at 8:09 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> Jane M. Cooper, Faculty Emerita, Helped Create SLC?s Writing Program
> Wednesday, October 31, 2007
>
> Jane Marvel Cooper, poet, Professor and Poet-in-Residence Emerita  
> at Sarah Lawrence College, died peacefully at Pennswood Village,  
> Newtown, P.A., on October 26th from complications due to  
> Parkinson's Disease.
>
> Jane Cooper joined the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College in 1950,  
> where she remained as a teacher and poet in residence until her  
> retirement in 1987. Together with Grace Paley, Jean Valentine,  
> Muriel Rukeyser and others, Cooper helped develop and enhance the  
> College?s writing program that became one of the most distinguished  
> in the country.  On her retirement after 37 years on the writing/ 
> literature faculty an endowed scholarship in her name was created  
> to support a writing student
>
>
>
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jforjames  Mon Nov  5 14:45:48 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:45:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Jane Cooper RIP
In-Reply-To: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
References: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9EDFB99600A3E-13E4-23DB@FWM-M14.sysops.aol.com>

I forgot the URL when I posted this...
http://www.slc.edu/news-events/2007-2008/2007-10-31.php

-----Original Message-----
From: JforJames at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 9:09 pm
Subject: Jane Cooper RIP



Jane M. Cooper, Faculty Emerita, Helped Create SLC?s Writing Program
Wednesday, October 31, 2007 

?

Jane Marvel Cooper, poet, Professor and Poet-in-Residence Emerita at Sarah Lawrence College, died peacefully at Pennswood Village, Newtown, P.A., on October 26th from complications due to Parkinson's Disease. 

?

Jane Cooper joined the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College in 1950, where she remained as a teacher and poet in residence until her retirement in 1987. Together with Grace Paley, Jean Valentine, Muriel Rukeyser and others, Cooper helped develop and enhance the College?s writing program that became one of the most distinguished in the country.? On her retirement after 37 years on the writing/literature faculty an endowed scholarship in her name was created to support a writing student





See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Mon Nov  5 15:53:42 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:53:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Wave Books Announcements
In-Reply-To: <472F77F2.7000300@english.umass.edu>
References: <472F77F2.7000300@english.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9EE0515A14D32-6A8-12A7@webmail-mf16.sysops.aol.com>








Attached Message




From:

info at wavepoetry.com



To:





Subject:

Wave Books Announcements



Date:

Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:57:06 -0400







ear Friends of Wave Books,
We have some exciting news?the release of a National Poetry Series winning
itle, and the launch of Dorothea Lasky?s ?Tiny Tour.?
WAVE BOOKS PROUDLY ANNOUNCES A NEW RELEASE
THE SCENTED FOX
y Laynie Browne
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/57?page=&by=new 
National Poetry Series Winner selected by Alice Notley
Laynie Browne?s seventh collection emerges from reconstructed tales and
reams. In these fragmented poetic spells, characters disappear and
e-emerge with their charms reconfigured, their stories unraveled, and
heir resolutions elusive.
?An icon for the generation of poets who are about to show up.? ?Ron
illiman
Laynie Browne was born and grew up in Los Angeles.  She attended the
niversity of California, Berkeley, and Brown University and was awarded
he Gertrude Stein Award in Innovative Poetry three times.  She is the
uthor of six other collections of poetry, including Daily Sonnets
Counterpath Press) and Drawing a Swan Before Memory (University of Georgia
ress).  She currently lives in Tucson.
A REALLY, REALLY SMALL BOOK TOUR
Dorothea Lasky, author of the newly released collection AWE, is embarking
n a six-stop book tour within the various rooms of her Philadelphia
partment and broadcasting the readings via her website:
ttp://www.birdinsnow.com 
The first two readings, in the kitchen and the living room with guest poets
oshua Beckman, Frank Sherlock, and Dan Machlin, have already been posted. 
ore readings coming soon, with C.A. Conrad, Noelle Kocot, and others!
Check out Dorothea Lasky's new book AWE
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/55?page=2&by=author
READINGS AND EVENTS
Be sure to check out the calendar section for information on upcoming
eadings for these and other Wave Books authors.
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/calendar   
SUBSCRIPTIONS AVAILABLE
Some 2007 subscriptions to our limited edition hardcovers are still
vailable. We have sold out of subscriptions in the past; so don?t miss out
n this opportunity to own signed, numbered, cloth bound editions by Eileen
yles, Christian Hawkey, and Joe Wenderoth, among others.
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/special_section/6
Softcover subscriptions to Wave 2007 titles are also available.  Softcover
ubscribers receive all titles published in 2007 at a special discount.
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog/59 

ORTHCOMING TITLES
Keep your eye out in spring and summer 2008 for new poetry by Caroline Knox
nd John Godfrey, as well as fiction by Mary Ruefle.  More information:
ttp://www.wavepoetry.com/catalog?by=forthcoming 

--
f you do not want to receive any more Wave Books announcements for this
ist, please email info at wavepoetry.com with 'unsubscribe' in the subject
ine.

--
owered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com --








_______________________________________________
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From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov  5 16:58:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 22:58:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Jesse Glass
Message-ID: <00b901c81ff7$0ce497f0$b8de3052@ANNY>

Dear All,

Anyone familiar with classical Chinese and Japanese literature in
translation knows Burton Watson.  Happily, Burton is my neighbor and my
friend, and he agreed to allow Ahadada Books to "scoop" Columbia
University Press (Burton's usual publisher) by publishing Late Poems of
Lu You; The Old Man Who Does As He Pleases in a very attractive
bilingual addition, which also includes excerpts from Lu You's travel
diary.

Lu You (1125--1210) was among the most prolific of Song Dynasty poets.
His poems are notable for communicating a carefree enjoyment of life.
Burton Watson's limpid versions capture the spirit of the originals,
and are a joy to read as poems in themselves.

Small Press Distribution has a number of copies on hand for sale (a large
box of them are on the way to Berkeley from Japan even as I write), and
the book has already garnered a great review from Donald Richie in the
Japan Times.  (You may read it on their website.)

We also have a limited number of signed copies for sale.  For these
please back-channel me.

This book would make a great addition to anyone's library.

Thanks for reading!

Jess (The original Ahadada)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jforjames  Mon Nov  5 17:47:20 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:47:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <8C9EE14F55CD717-930-296B@MBLK-M17.sysops.aol.com>


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/poetry/article2785336.ece

>From The Sunday TimesNovember 4, 2007

Battlefield salvos

War poetry isn?t confined to the trenches ? veterans of Bosnia, Iraq and Malaya inspired Simon Armitage to tell their stories in verse

A couple of months ago, a friend asked me why there was no poetry dealing with our current war. I suppose he was thinking that the conflict in the Gulf has dominated the political headlines for several years now and was wondering why the poetic community hadn?t responded. Behind his question lurked the suggestion that latterday poetry is both effete and ineffectual, unable or unwilling to deal with the big subjects, being all style and little substance and having nothing to say to the everyday reader, and no way of saying it. Where is the war poetry, he wanted to know, and who are the war poets? 


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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 17:55:21 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:55:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c27.25216e57.3460f959@cs.com>

In a message dated 11/5/2007 4:47:53 PM Central Standard Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> A couple of months ago, a friend asked me why there was no poetry dealing 
> with our current war. I suppose he was thinking that the conflict in the Gulf 
> has dominated the political headlines for several years now and was wondering 
> why the poetic community hadn?t responded. Behind his question lurked the 
> suggestion that latterday poetry is both effete and ineffectual, unable or 
> unwilling to deal with the big subjects, being all style and little substance and 
> having nothing to say to the everyday reader, and no way of saying it. Where 
> is the war poetry, he wanted to know, and who are the war poets? 
> 
> 
> 
Brian Turner won this year's Poets' Prize for Here, Bullet, a fine book of 
war poetry written by a soldier-poet.  There is also an interesting article in 
the current New York Times Book Review about the English curriculum at West 
Pointl.   
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 17:57:16 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:57:16 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <cf3.1eb383dd.3460f9cc@cs.com>

In a message dated 11/5/2007 4:47:53 PM Central Standard Time, 
jforjames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> A couple of months ago, a friend asked me why there was no poetry dealing 
> with our current war. I suppose he was thinking that the conflict in the Gulf 
> has dominated the political headlines for several years now and was wondering 
> why the poetic community hadn?t responded. Behind his question lurked the 
> suggestion that latterday poetry is both effete and ineffectual, unable or 
> unwilling to deal with the big subjects, being all style and little substance and 
> having nothing to say to the everyday reader, and no way of saying it. Where 
> is the war poetry, he wanted to know, and who are the war poets? 

And don't forget the NEA program "Project Homecoming."  I believe that some 
of the results are available online and that an anthology is due out soon.

http://www.nea.gov/national/homecoming/pressreleases/OHAnnounce.html   
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 17:58:09 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:58:09 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>

Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read about, say, 
the Korean War?   
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Nov  5 18:28:44 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:28:44 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c6b.1c338a02.3461012c@cs.com>

Ah, I see that Turner is mentioned.  Good book.

Don't know why he mentioned Thomas, who wrote some poems before going to 
France but none while there.

http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/thomas2.html

He should have mentioned Graves and Blunden, among others, though Graves's 
war poems (like "The Persian Version") are masterpieces of indirection.  Despite 
the claims that are made for Rosenberg, I still think Sasson and Owen 
superior.  Rosenberg is good, but I still get a sort of "business as usual" feeling 
from his war poems.  Maybe by the time he wrote, the war had settled into what 
appeared to be a permanent condition.  With Sassoon and Owen, there's still 
that great sense of moral outrage.

One of the very interesting ones was the American John Allen Wyeth, though 
there's considerable confusion about his biography.  Apparently the Wyeth who 
wrote the poems was the son of the Civil War soldier-doctor.  Here is an 
interesting website on all (or mostly all) of the WWI writers:

http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/otherpoet.htm

For my money, the best Vietnam poems were written by non-combatants (or 
non-combat soldiers), Komunyakaa and Balaban.  And who is the most recognized 
American poet of WWII?  Jarrell.  Who never left the states.

When you get right down to it, most wars since the Trojan have inspired a 
fairly skimpy amount of good poems, with the exception of WWI, which was a type 
of war that reversed almost all of the traditional concepts of war as a 
glorious activity.

And don't forget Stephen Crane.  "Do Not Weep, Maiden, War Is Kind" is a 
great one, as are Whitman's (largely reportorial) war poems.  Cummings also has 
some good takes, though from his usual off-center perspective. This 
falling-short may have something to do with aesthetic distance in the face of such horror; 
that the British poets were able to do so well with the subject matter may 
have something to do with their having been brought up with all the conventional 
ideas of "sacrifice" and "nobility" for the Empire.  This gave them a natural 
sounding board for their contrary responses.

Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory is surely relevant in this regard.

If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as Turner 
does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous media coverage.  Still, 
this doesn't explain the absence of Korean War poetry, which certainly 
provided enough amazing imagery (those shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my 
junior high school teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets.

I find the subject of war poetry consistenly fascinating, mainly because (in 
Graves's terms) there was so much "Repression of War Experience."  I think 
that a lot of it had (and has) to do with the inability of poets to find an 
appropriate idiom to express what they have seen.  Turner does a good job, in a 
flat, objective, WCWilliams sort of way.   
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From AlMaginnes  Mon Nov  5 19:23:06 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:23:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c65.201ec579.34610dea@aol.com>

I saw Turner read about six months ago and it was  riveting. The poems don't 
do much for me on the page, but he read them  wonderfully and with obvious 
emotion. I bought a copy of the book for my  neighbor who spent a year in Iraq 
and he nearly cried. 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From Opus40-01  Mon Nov  5 22:23:08 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:23:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
Message-ID: <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>

A lot of blues songs in the early 50s made reference to a brother in Korea;.

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
> Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read 
> about, say, the Korean War?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From wwmorgan  Mon Nov  5 22:55:57 2007
From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:55:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>

William (Bill) Wantling (1932-74) has several Korean War poems.  I've just
been looking around on the Net for a sample or two, but I couldn't find any.


Bill Morgan  

> Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read 
> about, say, the Korean War?
>
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/





From grahamd  Mon Nov  5 23:49:11 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 22:49:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
Message-ID: <991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>

Etheridge Knight served in Korea as a medic, I believe.  Was badly  
wounded, and got hooked on narcotics, which in turn led to him going  
to prison.  Though he wrote many poems about his prison experiences,  
I'm not aware of any about his war experience, and only a couple that  
glancingly refer to Korea.


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 5, 2007, at 9:55 PM, Bill Morgan wrote:

> William (Bill) Wantling (1932-74) has several Korean War poems.   
> I've just
> been looking around on the Net for a sample or two, but I couldn't  
> find any.
>
>
> Bill Morgan
>
>> Incidentally, James, how many poems can you remember having read
>> about, say, the Korean War?
>>
> Tad Richards
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From rwilsnac  Tue Nov  6 10:05:21 2007
From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:05:21 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
	<472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>

Sam Gwynn wrote,

"If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as 
Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous media 
coverage.  Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean War poetry, 
which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those shit-fertilized 
rice fields) to inspire my junior high school teachers (who were of that 
generation) but not the poets."

There is an anthology titled _Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of the 
Korean War_, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers 
University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress, 
Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, and 
Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know about how 
directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be worth the effort 
to track down a copy of the book.

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
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From cervantes.james  Tue Nov  6 10:28:41 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:28:41 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <648208b60711060728r7db8f070leb53b87d8420d9ef@mail.gmail.com>

You might check out "The War Papers" at Big Bridge:
http://www.bigbridge.org/warindex.htm


-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf
~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/12364573 at N08/



From editor  Tue Nov  6 14:30:27 2007
From: editor (David Baratier)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:30:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <200711030826.lA38QgWv017696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <256581.71823.qm@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Lyn was one of the people who started me out in poetry when I was about 14 years old or so. Back then in the mid-eighties she would spend 3 or 4 hours jaunts (not sure how many days a week) in the Niskayuna Co-op plugging nickles into the photocopying machine to reproduce poems. Lyn never paid much attention to guides, in fact she would often take a piece that appeared in a national journal, photocopy it out of the journal, not even hide the page number, and send it to another few dozen places. She used the Dustbook directory addressed an envelope to every potential poetry publisher, and did this multiple (3-5) times every year plus sent to all of the listings in the new pubs section of Small Magazine Review and Small Press Review before they were combined into one publication.
   
  I suppose the poems haven't "sold" like Buk because they are not friendly to the audience, or to the publisher for that matter in terms of the amount of paper they require. The stilted, often single word lines, rely on enjambment rather than a fluid voice which seems to be the barometer for popularity. Also nearly all of her publishers were small press places with poor distribution that went out of business. 


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
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From halvard  Tue Nov  6 17:28:17 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:28:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
	<472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>

Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
those more recently out from a press the name of
which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:

> Sam Gwynn wrote,
>
> "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as  
> Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous  
> media coverage.  Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean  
> War poetry, which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those  
> shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my junior high school  
> teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets."
>
> There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of  
> the Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers  
> University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress,  
> Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, and  
> Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know about  
> how directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be worth the  
> effort to track down a copy of the book.
>
> Richard W. Wilsnack
> rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Opus40-01  Tue Nov  6 18:17:15 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:17:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mole Update: Situations 10
Message-ID: <4730F5FB.5070105@opus40.org>

As Bob?s net draws tighter around Carlene, and Polly prepares to fly to 
her daughter?s side, it?s time to choose your partner for The Tragic 
Polka. And it?s all in Situations, Episode 10.

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=2111

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From jorgensen_a  Tue Nov  6 21:15:03 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 18:15:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] WHERE (THEY ARE HERE) ARE THE WAR POETS
Message-ID: <955043.79399.qm@web54604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

On Train to Krak?w

>From our dining car, a man 
in a ?double-breasted leather pea coat,
wide-lapeled and espresso colored,?
stares with eyes half-closed. 

    It's in 
the tone of the voice and 
how you hold your cigarette, 
he says, smirking:
-unless your muse is the bomb!
And where bayonets locomote, 
there's only virtue.

Leaning back, he tiptoes a postcard 
to hip-pocket, removing a palm leaf 
woven into a tiny cross.

Gunpowder recedes as we depart Ostrava.-


While Thinking Dylan Thomas
Irrelevant to any argument 
of justice & universal equality, an organism
whose only propensity's 
the attempt to develop into a human life-

    ONE.

Goats (mountain 
sheep)?ll climb

wandering their way
without contempt

for their
excretions (i.e. shit)

    TWO.

Waving a glass
of MD 20/20
and cussing husband Stuart


the daughter?d
take the stranger
down a footpath.

    THREE.

This is alls
I want the planet
to be (STOP)

Like who I?m 
on the inside's 
not good enough (STOP)

?Think of England
-that?s what 
ladies do in war.?

    FOUR.

Death?s freedom
to all the spectrum of hills!



Schadenfreude
In memory of Otto Dix

If pushing limb
through an eggshell
were easier-?Weeste noch??

not entirely
more daunting, say-
?Sehr wirklich Leben,?

thousands of
daisy cutters [1], der
Selbsterm?rd (1000 lb/in?),

might?ve led one
to meadows, however
miniscule, of quiet.-

But looking on
long enough, ?Nach
diese Platter dort.?-

one becomes
drowsy,-feels anemic.
?Relative,? he said,

?-to naught.?
No voice. Stilleben.
And all is graceful.

[Footnote 1:  BLU-82B, nicknamed ?daisy cutter,? is an extremely lethal 15,000 pound bomb originally designed to clear ground for helicopter landing areas.] 


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From jorgensen_a  Wed Nov  7 23:04:36 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <200711061700.lA6H06Ww026162@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <764406.64849.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

An apology if my most recent post seemed to come out of left field, as they say - and I tend to do this while stumbling to communicate. I remember a poem sent to me during the beginning of the current Iraq war, a kind of Dr. Seuss-type thing, written by a noted poet who preferred to remain anonymous. Anyway, I was perplexed by his decision to remain so, feeling at the time that this approach lessened the influence such a sharing of ideas might have, and at such a critical time. With regards to war poems, I wonder, and please correct me for sounding ignorant, if that is how I might sound, but is part of the problem, as least Stateside, that not nearly enough poets are traveling and living abroad, exposed to new perspectives, approached by realities starkly different to what is relative comfort on the home front, very far removed from arms and limbs. I don't know.

Hope those 'war poems' (or 'conflict poems') might have brought something to this thoughtful list.


Best,
Alex


--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From jjeffreymail  Wed Nov  7 23:10:49 2007
From: jjeffreymail (John Jeffrey)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <943998.46915.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


So tonight I get an email from the Poetry Society of America about an upcoming reading.  And what are they reading?  Poetry and prose of the Spanish Civil War.

I can't take it.

I don't think that there's a lack of war poets or poems; my couplet of thoughts about this thread is that 1) there are too many poems about the war, and 2) most poems about war are gawd-awful--and, luckily, unpublished.

It's just too easy, when torn death is involved, to write something that people think is "powerful."  All you have to do is go to a handful of open mike poetry readings and you'll hear them.

     Billy's bones are burning
     a thousand miles from Mom
     
(The crowd nods and "Mmmm"s.  One woman sniffles.  Someone mumbles angrily about the President.")

 And so on, more descriptions of death, loose limbs, futility, a mention about oil, the wealthy...etc.  Usual stuff.

You don't see that sort of lurid yanking in Owen.  No need for that if you can actually write poetry.  War poems are hard to keep above the simple splashing of blood to draw a gasp or the easy political posturing (which is always assumed to posture against the war. Where are the good poems written that praise a war?  Even, say, fighting Nazi Germany?).

Anyway, have a good night all.  And remember poor Billy.  (More nodding.  "That piece was so powerful," the deaf man says.)

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From elemenope_productions  Wed Nov  7 23:36:41 2007
From: elemenope_productions (R Dillon)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 04:36:41 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] War Poetry
Message-ID: <BLU103-W8C1079D3239FF8631B3F4908B0@phx.gbl>


World War 4 is asymmetrical and like a cat's cradleflashes up anywhere the IslamoFascists seek to strike. If Generals David Petraeus or McMaster are NOT your generals the way Generals Patton or MacArthur were your dad or granddad's generals in World War II, then youprobably stand against President Sarkozy, if not out and outaiding and abetting Nancy Pelosi in her outrageous backdoortreason with the PKK to destroy the Turkey/US compactwhich permits us to supply our forces in their oncoming victory over the fiends that would behead us all in the name of their evil god and for the good people of Iraq who want to play soccer and sell fresh fruit in their souks without standing in the shadow of some unAmerican tyrant. If you aren't willing to make a citizen's arrest of those who sold the ChiKoms the plans for miniaturized h-bombs and through the Loral Corporation the launch systems that now enable the Children of Mao to destroy satellites in space in order to finance their political ambitions to have the American Republic fall to the dreams of Saul Alinsky, then you are either too busy making an honest living to get involved in any of this, or you are working on behalf of America's enemies even though you don't think you are. A word about Kucinich.  He saw what he saw but can't come out and full force say it.  My problem with Kucinich, the one who saw the floating triangle at Shirley Maclaine's mountainchalet. being the public contact point is that he looks like Alfred E. Newman.  This is all the UFO movement needs, Alfred E. Newman.  If this is the way the ETs intend to do their disclosure, I may just have to decline any involvement in the matter whatsoever.
 
 
R.E. Dillon
 
 
P.S.  For those who caught my friend, Gordon Liddy, do his interview of Shirley Maclaine earlier this week over right wing free radio, let me opine that she did very well!  She wouldn't permit him to indulge in lawyerly logic chopping or rely on his version of physics (The speed of light being topped out at
whatever 186 K a sec.) to deny the ET saucer craft to pop in and out at the speed of thought or to surf the chi.  Or to deny Jaime Masson's huge video shows overhead Montezuma's old haunts at Teotihuac?n. 
_________________________________________________________________
Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
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From gejs1  Thu Nov  8 07:19:19 2007
From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:19:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
References: <943998.46915.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002301c82201$96b8bc20$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b>

Poetry is as dis-enfranchised from 
this war as we the citizens are. Just
another of the unintended (but in some
quarters welcomed) consequences of
this war's creeping privatization.

Gerald S.



  So tonight I get an email from the Poetry Society of America about an upcoming reading.  And what are they reading?  Poetry and prose of the Spanish Civil War.

  I can't take it.

  I don't think that there's a lack of war poets or poems; my couplet of thoughts about this thread is that 1) there are too many poems about the war, and 2) most poems about war are gawd-awful--and, luckily, unpublished.

  It's just too easy, when torn death is involved, to write something that people think is "powerful."  All you have to do is go to a handful of open mike poetry readings and you'll hear them.

       Billy's bones are burning
       a thousand miles from Mom
       
  (The crowd nods and "Mmmm"s.  One woman sniffles.  Someone mumbles angrily about the President.")

  And so on, more descriptions of death, loose limbs, futility, a mention about oil, the wealthy...etc.  Usual stuff.

  You don't see that sort of lurid yanking in Owen.  No need for that if you can actually write poetry.  War poems are hard to keep above the simple splashing of blood to draw a gasp or the easy political posturing (which is always assumed to posture against the war. Where are the good poems written that praise a war?  Even, say, fighting Nazi Germany?).

  Anyway, have a good night all.  And remember poor Billy.  (More nodding.  "That piece was so powerful," the deaf man says.)

  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
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From JforJames  Thu Nov  8 08:45:16 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:45:16 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] LitStation, new season
Message-ID: <c48.1b1310ad.34646cec@aol.com>

LitStation
Filling Station for the Mind

_http://litstation.htt_ (http://litstation.com) 

>From the web site: "We are an online radio station dedicated 
to  streaming the best radio and archival work done in the 
literary arts. We  have six great series for you this season, 
and will be bringing you more.  And stay with us after each 
feature for the LitMix, an eclectic blend of  literature sure to 
please and surprise you."

The LitStation web site  streams a rotating schedule of readings,
interviews, and literary shows. The  current schedule includes: 
Left Hand Reading Series, Segue Reading Series,  Cross Cul-
tural Poetics, Book Beat, LitMix, RadioRadio, and  Linebreak.

Make a special effort to listen: LitStation was organized and  is
managed by two Connecticut residents and poets, Jim Finnegan
and  Hendree Milward. 

_http://litstation.htt_ (http://litstation.com/) 





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From alexdickow9  Thu Nov  8 13:22:54 2007
From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] atticus/finch
In-Reply-To: <200711081700.lA8H05Ww030955@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <424343.69700.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

FIY, sorry for any cross-posting:

[Please distribute this post far and wide: small press
publishers
depend on your effort to get the word out!]

Dear Friends:

Atticus/Finch is honored to announce the release of
our newest
chapbook, Snow Sensitive Skin, a collaborative
long-poem by San
Francisco authors Taylor Brady and Rob Halpern. While
Atticus/Finch
commissioned this work back in 2005, the collaboration
didn't begin in
earnest until June of 2006, in the midst of the (most
recent) martial
conflict between Israel and Lebanon. Taking as their
point of
departure Lebanese musician and visual artist Mazen
Kerbaj's
composition "Starry Night" (see below for a link), an
improvisation
between Mazen and the Israeli airforce for "trumpet
and bombs," the
authors challenged themselves to face the violence of
war with the
deactivating non-force of the poem, drawing into stark
contrast
notions of responsibility, praxis, and the labor of
poetry during
times of war. The authors write in their
acknowledgements, "if we want
to give ourselves to a present that is something other
than the
debased 'now,' and to a future that will not have been
terminal, every
second language must be taken up as an act of love."
As such, Brady
and Halpern took the very notion of collaboration to
task, demanding
that the composition unfold together, in the same
room, in real time,
in order to undergo and occupy this second language
(in all of its
difficulty) in a present foreign to the terminal
'now.'

Snow Sensitive Skin is a tour de force in the most
literal sense, a
commitment to undertake the difficulty of language as
aporia and
possibility, and at 72 pages of tightly weft lines,
dedicated to "the
promise of demilitarized time," this "chapbook" is
certainly ambitious
in scope.

If that weren't enough, folks in and around the San
Francisco Bay Area
will have the pleasure of seeing Brady and Halpern
read from the book
at its launch this Sunday, November 11th, at Oakland
institution New
Yipes (21 Grand, 416 25th Street) at 7pm (along with
fellow poet
Garrett Caples), and copies of the book will certainly
be on hand for
interested parties.

In the meantime, for those of us happily residing
elsewhere, the book
can be purchased now using credit card or check. And,
as is the case
with all Atticus/Finch books, this volume will sell
out relatively
quickly, so order while you've got it on your mind!

To obtain a copy, use your credit card at our website
(www.atticusfinch.org), or send $10 (well-concealed
cash, check, or
money order (made payable to Michael Cross)) to:

Atticus/Finch Chapbooks
c/o Michael Cross
State University of New York at Buffalo
Samuel Clemens Hall #306
Buffalo NY 14260-4610


On a related note, we still have a few copies of
Patrick Durgin's
Imitation Poems, if you'd like to bundle your order,
and do keep your
eyes open for the next A/F volume (coming this
December), Lo, Bittern
by Austin poet C.J. Martin.

And, finally, here's the link to Kerbaj's "Starry
Night:"
www.muniak.com/mazen_kerbaj-starry_night.mp3

Please do not send messages to the entire list when
you intend only to
reply to the sender.



www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet




From jforjames  Thu Nov  8 14:01:59 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:01:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jane Cooper RIP
In-Reply-To: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
References: <ca3.1bfb00bd.345fd542@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F050F9AF69D0-ACC-46CD@webmail-me20.sysops.aol.com>

Joe Duemer's blog has a post and poem re Cooper...

http://www.sharpsand.net/2007/11/07/an-exemplary-lyric-by-jane-cooper/

--
________________________________________________________________________
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From jforjames  Thu Nov  8 14:29:58 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:29:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <943998.46915.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C9F054E21D8B84-ACC-4956@webmail-me20.sysops.aol.com>

John,
You're likely to hear some bad poems about any?subject (local, topical, or universal)?at an open mike.
What you're talking about?are cliches, typical responses, well-worn perspectives that are
the stock?& trade of?amateur poets.

But there is something to the fact that powerful subjects, universal subjects, love/war/death/family/nature/injustice/everafter/etc.,
are probably the most difficult subjects to address, particularly to approach in a new way, from a different
angle..but perhaps are the most necessary subjects. I wonder if a poet could create a respected body of work while 
scrupulously avoiding the 'big subjects', as we say? Of course one time-honored approach is to do a poem
on a little/small subject that somehow casts a large shadow when the light of insight hits it.

Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: John Jeffrey <jjeffreymail at yahoo.com>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:10 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?



So tonight I get an email from the Poetry Society of America about an upcoming reading.? And what are they reading?? Poetry and prose of the Spanish Civil War.

I can't take it.

I don't think that there's a lack of war poets or poems; my couplet of thoughts about this thread is that 1) there are too many poems about the war, and 2) most poems about war are gawd-awful--and, luckily, unpublished.

It's just too easy, when torn death is involved, to write something that people think is "powerful."? All you have to do is go to a handful of open mike poetry readings and you'll hear them.

???? Billy's bones are burning
???? a thousand miles from Mom
???? 
(The crowd nods and "Mmmm"s.? One woman sniffles.? Someone mumbles angrily about the President.")

And so on, more descriptions of death, loose limbs, futility, a mention about oil, the wealthy...etc.? Usual stuff.

You don't see that sort of lurid yanking in Owen.? No need for that if you can actually write poetry.? War poems are hard to keep above the simple splashing of blood to draw a gasp or the easy political posturing (which is always assumed to posture against the war. Where are the good poems written that praise a war?? Even, say, fighting Nazi Germany?).

Anyway, have a good night all.? And remember poor Billy.? (More nodding.? "That piece was so powerful," the deaf man says.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



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From halvard  Thu Nov  8 16:38:03 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:38:03 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] 
	Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 13, Fall 2007, Now Online!
Message-ID: <C4546612-D7B4-465B-BC07-557C3CBB700F@earthlink.net>


**********************************************************

Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 13, Fall 2007, Now Online!

Featuring poetry by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Suzanne
Ryan, Stephen Baraban, Hugh Fox, Holly Iglesias, Skip Fox,
Sheila Murphy, Mark Weiss, Roger Mitchell, Gary Beck,
Gianina Opris and James Grabill; and fiction by Helen Duberstein,
Anne Earney, Joan Newburger, and Niama Leslie Williams.

         http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr13.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review

Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry for Issue #14,
which will be out in Feb. 2008. Poetry submissions should go, only
by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net.

Please include "HSR14 submission" and your name in your subject line,
and also include a brief bio note with your submission. All poems in
a single attachment, please, and/or in body of email message.

Fiction submissions closed until further notice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions.

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/

PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS

**********************************************************

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From ATambellini01  Thu Nov  8 18:18:38 2007
From: ATambellini01 (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:18:38 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c49.1c7b8586.3464f34e@aol.com>

I think some of the good ones are here
 
_http://dougholder.blogspot.com/2007/11/poets-against-killing-fields.html_ 
(http://dougholder.blogspot.com/2007/11/poets-against-killing-fields.html) 



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From cervantes.james  Thu Nov  8 19:43:26 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:43:26 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall, 2007 Salt River Review
Message-ID: <648208b60711081643u44ef4efbx96474b3fa75a708b@mail.gmail.com>

The Salt River Review, Volume 10, Number 2, Fall 2007, is now online
with Poetry by Carlos Barbarito, Mario Benedetti, Pablo Antonio
Cuadra, Julie R. Enszer, Jerry Mirskin, Lee Passarella, Jami
Macarty,Doug Ramspeck, Tad Richards, Matt Sadler, Elizabeth Laborde,
Steve Trebellas & Lisa Steinman.  Fiction by Denis Emorine, Tsipi
Keller, Norman Lock & Andrea Fitzpatrick.  Poetry editor for this
issue was Greg Simon, fiction editor was Carol Novack.

Submissions are now open for the Winter issue - please read guidelines
carefully.  We will be celebrating our 10th anniversary online with
that issue and the following Spring, 2008 issue.

Visit at http://www.poetserv.org/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From suelin6787  Fri Nov  9 05:48:03 2007
From: suelin6787 (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 04:48:03 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
References: <c49.1c7b8586.3464f34e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002201c822be$0171e070$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

I think you are mistaken.  "It's a matter of record that Al Gore won the 2000 election."  Please...

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ATambellini01 at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?


  I think some of the good ones are here

  http://dougholder.blogspot.com/2007/11/poets-against-killing-fields.html





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From AlMaginnes  Fri Nov  9 07:40:24 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 07:40:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
Message-ID: <c86.1d2bc522.3465af38@aol.com>

Well, Gore certainly won the popular vote. And the Florida recount was  never 
really finished. But Bush did get elected by the Supreme Court. 



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From suelin6787  Fri Nov  9 07:51:28 2007
From: suelin6787 (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 06:51:28 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?
References: <c86.1d2bc522.3465af38@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c822cf$3ef92870$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

So it's "on record" that Gore won...

lsg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: AlMaginnes at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 6:40 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where are the war poets?


  Well, Gore certainly won the popular vote. And the Florida recount was never really finished. But Bush did get elected by the Supreme Court. 





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From halvard  Fri Nov  9 09:52:41 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 08:52:41 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] HSR13 online (w/ correct link)
Message-ID: <16512BEF-EE1F-43B7-9C71-3BE8242A65D6@earthlink.net>

**********************************************************

Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 13, Fall 2007, Now Online!

Featuring poetry by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Suzanne
Ryan, Stephen Baraban, Hugh Fox, Holly Iglesias, Skip Fox,
Sheila Murphy, Mark Weiss, Roger Mitchell, Gary Beck,
Gianina Opris and James Grabill; and fiction by Helen Duberstein,
Anne Earney, Joan Newburger, and Niama Leslie Williams.

         http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr13.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review

Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry for Issue #14,
which will be out in Feb. 2008. Poetry submissions should go, only
by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net.

Please include "HSR14 submission" and your name in your subject line,
and also include a brief bio note with your submission. All poems in
a single attachment, please, and/or in body of email message.

Fiction submissions closed until further notice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions.

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/

PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS

**********************************************************

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From JforJames  Fri Nov  9 16:52:23 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:52:23 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry market in freefall;
	Fed Chairman calls for bailout, with a spoon
Message-ID: <c4a.2220b952.34663097@aol.com>





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Subject: Poets House Book Sale -- Last Chance
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From JforJames  Fri Nov  9 17:10:28 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:10:28 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Market Collapse Threatens Stability Of
	Literature Economy
Message-ID: <c3d.233eb456.346634d4@aol.com>





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Subject: Newly Reduced Sale Prices on 125 Literary Books - Discounts Up to 90%
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:11:53 -0500
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From editor  Fri Nov  9 17:36:45 2007
From: editor (editor)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:36:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stein - Malcolm - Ozick = Stein
Message-ID: <64055.72.227.132.75.1194647805.squirrel@webmail.web.com>

This paragraph, from Philip Hensher reviews *Two Lives: Gertrude and
Alice* by Janet Malcolm, from

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/10/25/bomalc120.xml

?There is, too, the vexed question of how Stein and Toklas managed to stay
alive in Vichy France, and their attitude to their Jewishness--Toklas
converted to Christianity in old age.?It seems to enrage Malcolm that
Stein wasn't more interested in her ethnic identity.?

especially that last sentence, reminded me of a short essay that appeared
in the New York Times Magazine, November 24, 1996, by Cynthia Ozick
entitled ?A Prophet of Modernism:?Gertrude Stein.??In it, Ozick writes of
the ?copycat Cubist?:??She intended to seize and personify modernism
itself, and she succeeded.?Consequently, we cannot imagine Gertrude Stein
without Picasso.?Like him, she wanted to invent Cubism--not in oils but in
words.?She worked to subtract plain meaning from English prose.?Whether
she was a charlatan or a philosopher, it is even now hard to say.???No one
now reads Gertrude Stein, though a few of her titles have lives of their
own:??Four Saints in Three Acts,? which Virgil Thomson made into an opera;
?The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas,? written by Gertrude Stein about
Gertrude Stein.???During the German occupation of Paris, when Jews were
being hunted by the thousands, these two Jewish women fled to obscurity in
the countryside; their Montparnasse flat, with its paintings, was left
unmolested.?And when Gertrude Stein died in 1946, at 72, her name was a
household word (or quip), her mannish head an avant-garde image, and she
had become one with the movement she touted.???At the close of its century
of brilliance and triumph, modernism begins now to look a little
old-fashioned, even a bit stale or exhausted, and certainly
conventional--but what is fresher, and sassier, and more enchantingly
silly than ?A rose is a rose is a rose. ...???This endearing, enduring,
durable and derisible chant of a copycat Cubist is almost all that is left
of Gertrude Stein.??

posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino?

http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/

e?





From jorgensen_a  Sat Nov 10 06:12:19 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:12:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <200711092124.lA9LORWw010025@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <747432.2850.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I don't know.




--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 10 08:39:27 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:39:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <747432.2850.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <747432.2850.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4735B48F.3090507@nut-n-but.net>

Some of mine haven't made it.  I am sure it's some kind of computer 
glitch.  It seems random.  Several years of archives have also 
disappeared--unless they've been brought back since I last checked.

--Bob

Alexander Jorgensen wrote:
> Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which 
> aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know 
> how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I 
> don't know.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of 
> the stuff that nature replaces it with."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   
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From halvard  Sat Nov 10 09:52:07 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:52:07 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com>
	<472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
	<42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C3014D49-3353-462F-ACDA-0BBF78FD984C@earthlink.net>

And some of them are here--

http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/default.asp

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
> Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
> those more recently out from a press the name of
> which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
> good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:
>
>> Sam Gwynn wrote,
>>
>> "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war  
>> (as Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous  
>> media coverage.  Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean  
>> War poetry, which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those  
>> shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my junior high school  
>> teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets."
>>
>> There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of  
>> the Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers  
>> University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress,  
>> Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling,  
>> and Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know  
>> about how directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be  
>> worth the effort to track down a copy of the book.
>>
>> Richard W. Wilsnack
>> rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From grahamd  Sat Nov 10 11:14:22 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:14:22 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser
Message-ID: <C7BC03B0-69BB-483E-9BC6-1133CE4377CA@ripon.edu>

David Mason appreciates the work of Ted Kooser for *The Dark Horse*,  
a Scottish journal I recently discovered.  The article is in a PDF  
file, address below.  The main magazine page is here:

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse.html

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse/archive/MasonOnKooser.pdf

Here's a snippet:

" It?s a great poem ["That Was I," fr. *Delights & Shadows*] without  
making any big gestures at greatness. It has all of Ted?s wisdom in  
it, his compassion and skepticism and respect for life.  If you open  
yourself to what this poetry offers, you have to admit that much of  
what seems so simple is deceptively so. For this reason, Ted is  
commonly compared to Frost, and while his vision is not quite Frost?s  
and his technique is less inclined to the sort of formal mastery  
Frost espoused, he is indeed a writer who repays re-reading even  
while he speaks to us directly on a first hearing. Critics who bypass  
Kooser, thinking him insufficiently complex, are missing a rigorous,  
original American voice."


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 10 13:26:12 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:26:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser
In-Reply-To: <C7BC03B0-69BB-483E-9BC6-1133CE4377CA@ripon.edu>
References: <C7BC03B0-69BB-483E-9BC6-1133CE4377CA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4735F7C4.8000508@nut-n-but.net>



David Graham wrote:
> David Mason appreciates the work of Ted Kooser for *The Dark Horse*, a 
> Scottish journal I recently discovered.  The article is in a PDF file, 
> address below.  The main magazine page is here:
>
> http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse.html
>
> http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse/archive/MasonOnKooser.pdf
>
> Here's a snippet:
>
> " It?s a great poem ["That Was I," fr. *Delights & Shadows*] without 
> making any big gestures at greatness. It has all of Ted?s wisdom in 
> it, his compassion and skepticism and respect for life.  If you open 
> yourself to what this poetry offers, you have to admit that much of 
> what seems so simple is deceptively so. For this reason, Ted is 
> commonly compared to Frost, and while his vision is not quite Frost?s 
> and his technique is less inclined to the sort of formal mastery Frost 
> espoused, he is indeed a writer who repays re-reading even while he 
> speaks to us directly on a first hearing. Critics who bypass Kooser, 
> thinking him insufficiently complex, are missing a rigorous, original 
> American voice."
>
I'm afraid my predictable response to this is, "It isn't how rigorously 
original a poet's voice is but what he does with it that counts, and 
Kooser just putts the average person's life back at him.

--from Guess-Who
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From JforJames  Sat Nov 10 18:02:53 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:02:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
Message-ID: <d09.2117b438.3467929d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/10/2007 6:12:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
jorgensen_a at yahoo.com writes:

Many of  us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which aren't 
flares, do  not make it to the list. I would be curious to know how rampant 
this might be.  Is there some sort of collusion involved? I don't  know.




Alexander, are you saying that posts of yours or others aren't getting thru  
to the list? I'm the only one behind the curtain, and this list is not  
moderated. All posts should get thru. If I shut someone off, the offender
gets a lot of forewarning. So it must be software issue...
 
Note: if a post has blind cc's and or lots of cc's, often this  software 
assumes it's spam and discards.
So it's best to post to this list in a single email rather than  as a mass 
blast.

Anyway, please forward posts that haven't come thru and I'll have my  tech 
helper look into it.

Jim Finnegan



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From JforJames  Sat Nov 10 18:18:30 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:18:30 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
Message-ID: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

.   Several years of archives have also disappeared--


I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from  happening 
again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth saving on  your hard 
drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and allows us to use it.  But I live in 
Connecticut and I found out last year that my tech  support now lives in the 
Pacific Northwest. The virtual world  and the physical world are far-flung and 
imperfect.
Jim Finnegan  



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From anny.ballardini  Sat Nov 10 18:28:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:28:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
References: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>
Message-ID: <027001c823f1$72612a00$dbac3452@ANNY>

Nietzsche would have drawn this to the tragedy of the Uebermensch.
I had pc problems for two days, it felt like living in the desert.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST


  In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    .  Several years of archives have also disappeared--
  I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from happening again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth saving on your hard drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and allows us to use it. But I live in Connecticut and I found out last year that my tech support now lives in the Pacific Northwest. The virtual world and the physical world are far-flung and imperfect.
  Jim Finnegan  





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From jorgensen_a  Sat Nov 10 20:34:13 2007
From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <200711101700.lAAH04Ww002450@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <271920.11542.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It does what it should, want, I guess. It has a culture, function, as anything does. Knocking head against wall and should better think these things through silently (as they are my questions). I suppose if one wants to change anything one should go about taking the time and making the investment - the attempting to invent sort of thing, marketplace of ideas, as they say. "All baby steps..."
   
  agj

new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote:
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Today's Topics:

1. SUNY BUFFALO LIST (Alexander Jorgensen)
2. Re: SUNY BUFFALO LIST (Bob Grumman)
3. Re: Re: Where are the war poets? (Halvard Johnson)
4. Kooser (David Graham)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:12:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Alexander Jorgensen 
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: <747432.2850.qm at web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I don't know.




--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:39:27 -0500
From: Bob Grumman 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"

Message-ID: <4735B48F.3090507 at nut-n-but.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some of mine haven't made it. I am sure it's some kind of computer 
glitch. It seems random. Several years of archives have also 
disappeared--unless they've been brought back since I last checked.

--Bob

Alexander Jorgensen wrote:
> Many of us have talked among ourselves about how our postings, which 
> aren't flares, do not make it to the list. I would be curious to know 
> how rampant this might be. Is there some sort of collusion involved? I 
> don't know.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of 
> the stuff that nature replaces it with."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:52:07 -0600
From: Halvard Johnson 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"

Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

And some of them are here--

http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/default.asp

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
> Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
> those more recently out from a press the name of
> which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
> good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:
>
>> Sam Gwynn wrote,
>>
>> "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war 
>> (as Turner does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous 
>> media coverage. Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean 
>> War poetry, which certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those 
>> shit-fertilized rice fields) to inspire my junior high school 
>> teachers (who were of that generation) but not the poets."
>>
>> There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of 
>> the Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers 
>> University Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress, 
>> Rolando Hinojosa, James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, 
>> and Keith Wilson. I don't have access to a copy, so I don't know 
>> about how directly the poems relate to the war, but it might be 
>> worth the effort to track down a copy of the book.
>>
>> Richard W. Wilsnack
>> rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:14:22 -0600
From: David Graham 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser
To: "NewPoetry & Views" 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

David Mason appreciates the work of Ted Kooser for *The Dark Horse*, 
a Scottish journal I recently discovered. The article is in a PDF 
file, address below. The main magazine page is here:

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse.html

http://www.star.ac.uk/darkhorse/archive/MasonOnKooser.pdf

Here's a snippet:

" It?s a great poem ["That Was I," fr. *Delights & Shadows*] without 
making any big gestures at greatness. It has all of Ted?s wisdom in 
it, his compassion and skepticism and respect for life. If you open 
yourself to what this poetry offers, you have to admit that much of 
what seems so simple is deceptively so. For this reason, Ted is 
commonly compared to Frost, and while his vision is not quite Frost?s 
and his technique is less inclined to the sort of formal mastery 
Frost espoused, he is indeed a writer who repays re-reading even 
while he speaks to us directly on a first hearing. Critics who bypass 
Kooser, thinking him insufficiently complex, are missing a rigorous, 
original American voice."


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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------------------------------

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 41, Issue 12
******************************************



--
Tennessee Williams: "A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with."
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From editor  Sat Nov 10 20:34:55 2007
From: editor (David Baratier)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 17:34:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: flares
In-Reply-To: <200711101700.lAAH04Wv002450@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Alex--
   
  Usually when I am flaming (at least since Amy's monitor) I fully deserve the post removed. I find that by turning up the insinuations to an unquestioned point of pointedness, it relieves me when the message is bounced, no bother caused at all. It is quite cathartic but every so often a slightly vile one still makes it to the list, or a two edged interior joke ambiguous enough not to be noticed. In any case they create an unquestioned cohesiveness for my persona, rather than splintering by wondering why.


Be well

David Baratier, Editor

Pavement Saw Press
321 Empire Street
Montpelier OH 43543
http://pavementsaw.org

Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at
http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id=1
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From bobgrumman  Sat Nov 10 21:37:34 2007
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:37:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>
References: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com>
Message-ID: <47366AEE.8030301@nut-n-but.net>



JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>
>     .  Several years of archives have also disappeared--
>
> I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from 
> happening again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth saving 
> on your hard drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and allows us to 
> use it. But I live in Connecticut and I found out last year that my 
> tech support now lives in the Pacific Northwest. The virtual world 
> and the physical world are far-flung and imperfect.
> Jim Finnegan 
Them things happen, James.  Never blamed you. 

By the way, I'm now confused about this thread: are we talking about 
New-Poetry or Buffalo?  I haven't been to Buffalo for a while.

--Bob
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From jfq  Sat Nov 10 22:52:52 2007
From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:52:52 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] SUNY BUFFALO LIST
In-Reply-To: <47366AEE.8030301@nut-n-but.net>
References: <c5c.1d5c7a51.34679646@aol.com> <47366AEE.8030301@nut-n-but.net>
Message-ID: <47367C94.1030709@myuw.net>

I think Alex was talking about Buffalo. Although Amy has let everything 
of mine through over there, so i doubt there's collusion.

Bob Grumman wrote:
>
>
> JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 11/10/2007 8:38:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
>>
>>     .  Several years of archives have also disappeared--
>>
>> I feel bad about this, Bob, but I'm not sure I can stop it from 
>> happening again. My advice is to save posts you think are worth 
>> saving on your hard drive. Virginia Tech hosts this software and 
>> allows us to use it. But I live in Connecticut and I found out last 
>> year that my tech support now lives in the Pacific Northwest. The 
>> virtual world and the physical world are far-flung and imperfect.
>> Jim Finnegan 
> Them things happen, James.  Never blamed you. 
>
> By the way, I'm now confused about this thread: are we talking about 
> New-Poetry or Buffalo?  I haven't been to Buffalo for a while.
>
> --Bob
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   




From jforjames  Sun Nov 11 19:23:44 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:23:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] David Amram, musician and jazz poet
Message-ID: <8C9F2D96B8CCB1E-2B8-8CA7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com>




http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2007/nov/10/whereidratherbe.saturday?gusrc=rss&feed=travelWhere I'd rather be
David Amram, musician and jazz poet

The Guardian Saturday November 10 2007 
What are you working on right now? 

I'm in London to play at the London International Poetry and Song Festival, to mark the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On the Road. I'll be doing what I did with Jack in October 1957 at our first jazz poetry reading at the Brata Art Gallery in New York - accompanying poets and readers. 


I'll play every night, spontaneously accompanying whoever wants me to. I don't need to have read the poetry before, I just listen. On Monday night I'm doing my Cairo to Kerouac piece, playing music inspired by my travels in Africa with some Kerouac readings. I hope to encourage young people to come closer to the creative world, even if they work as barristers or bus drivers. That was the epitome of Jack's philosophy.


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 11 19:49:19 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:49:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] even Rottweilers are scared of him
Message-ID: <8C9F2DCFE7C62B4-93C-5EF4@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com>



http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1784412007
Sat 10 Nov 2007
?
Rhyme and reason
JAMES RAMPTON 
JEREMY Paxman, the Newsnight frontman who has made his reputation as a presenter so ferocious even Rottweilers are scared of him, has a confession to make. Whisper it in Westminster, but the man who dishes out "Paxo stuffings" to politicians has a secret, tender, artistic side: he adores poetry. 


This 57-year-old journalist and chair of University Challenge is full of surprises. For instance, he laughs as much off screen as he sneers on it. In person, he is far more pussycat than attack dog. And - just as eyebrow-raising - he has an unalloyed passion for poetry. He acknowledges that this revelation might take some people aback. 


"I belong to various heretical minorities," he jokes. "For instance, I rather like students. I know we're not supposed to, but I'm always amazed by how much they know - and, of course, by how much they don't know! I also love poetry; I find it completely compelling and fascinating." 



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Sun Nov 11 19:57:36 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:57:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mackey given Pearce Prize
Message-ID: <8C9F2DE2657DFCD-AA8-7433@mblk-d32.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/text.asp?pid=1728
Nathaniel Mackey named 2007 recipient of UCSD's Roy Harvey Pearce Prize
By Scott Rappaport (831) 459-2495; srapp at ucsc.edu

?

Nathaniel Mackey
?

Literature professor Nathaniel Mackey is the recipient of the 2007 Roy Harvey Pearce/Archive for New Poetry Prize, awarded biennially by the Archive for New Poetry at the University of California, San Diego. 


The Pearce Prize honors an individual who has obtained wide acclaim both as a poet and as a scholar of contemporary American poetics. It is named for Roy Harvey Pearce, founder of UCSD?s Archive for New Poetry, one of the most extensive collections of experimental American writing in the world. The prize was established in 1995 to pay homage to Ralph Waldo Emerson?s concept of the poet-scholar.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From JforJames  Mon Nov 12 09:46:28 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:46:28 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stevenson wins Lannan
Message-ID: <c42.1ec80e8c.3469c144@aol.com>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/books/08arts-POETWINS2000_BRF.html?_r=1&em&
ex=1194670800&en=e7fb252fcbc34b92&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/books/08arts-POETWINS2000_BRF.html?_r=1&em&ex=1194670800&en=e7f
b252fcbc34b92&ei=5087
&oref=slogin) 
Arts, Briefly 
Poet Wins $200,000 

By THE NEW YORK  TIMES
Published: November 8, 2007
 
The American lyric poet Anne Stevenson, 74, who has lived in Britain for  
more than 40 years, was named the winner yesterday of the $200,000 lifetime  
achievement award of the Lannan Foundation of Santa Fe, N.M. Awards of $150,000  
each were made in fiction to A. L. Kennedy of Scotland and Susan Straight of  
Riverside, Calif., and in nonfiction to Mike Davis of San Diego. Writing  
fellowships totaling $550,000 went to Paula Gunn Allen of Fort Bragg, Calif.;  
Daniel Alarc?n of Oakland, Calif.; Edie Meidav of Rhinebeck, N.Y.; Dinaw  Mengestu 
and Jeremy Scahill of Brooklyn and Sinead Morrissey of Belfast,  Northern 
Ireland. The Lannan Literary Awards and Fellowships were established in  1989 to 
honor established and emerging writers of work of exceptional quality.  ... ?
Late Nights on Air,? the third novel by Elizabeth Hay, 56, a former radio  
broadcaster in Canada, won the $43,000 Scotiabank Giller Prize, the most  
lucrative Canadian prize for fiction, Reuters reported. The novel, about loves  and 
rivalries at a small radio station in Yellowknife, in the Northwest  Territories 
of Canada near the Arctic, beat shortlist competition that included  ?
Divisadero,? by Michael Ondaatje.
 
 



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From JforJames  Mon Nov 12 09:49:05 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:49:05 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Fairfield Review Fall Issue
Message-ID: <bd4.1d99aa94.3469c1e1@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/12/2007 12:00:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
fairfieldreview at hpmd.com writes:

            The Fairfield  Review Fall Issue            
Now  Available 
             Selected Links   
____________________________________
  
The Fall 2007 issue 
_Details
_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJfdKRuBg9LXgReXonILa9y8EAlC3BHMesGcUiicGsEgBNsJrmBGtb4wrNJjCzVniLoh_ytpgEKMefTFFi2N66-Tn_3Pz_ga3dfdLhXFkc80WQ==) 
Editors & Authors information 
_Details
_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJePtcaxScJ406z2LkfhZgOUGr_fGN94C0LPl65JDKaxBVlcu4Fza8d5hxcT0g-XA3WJcuB4vJNOal2-7FDQh9QHJFFPO57QT4XNnryOjkSCvuRhdLZcHw
ycoDTg6pqz8DlWxih9xdR6ZmFpKkQ3_mjhjSEVPjjNC4PybPuhXez9eJd_EzzudIEK1rkT5z9I_twN
HSjLUEu3vg==) 
Support the writing arts 
_Details
_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJcbwx6NxfBB07_fjZFEUM2e_coOR7IXJNCM9oXRp5qlPEH2fJUS17etQQz3xHBwZb3_3ubiLDZ-Wt_KQBC32Rr1BpjMPGKy-ohrejx1WJw2vdTF4vYVIT
JhwWXu4RICZecs6MuKXJ169-4y4q3Gsk4MROnnCl0-hBl-8FEWihO9fw==) 

   
Dear  James,  
We are pleased to  announce the publication of The Fairfield Review Fall 2007 
 issue.

This issue features fiction by Robert Kalkreuter and  Jala Pfaff; poems by 
Graham Burchell, Elina Kilevskaya, Susan Landon,  Tom O'Connor, Lynne Potts, 
Aaron M. Rudolph, Tara Grover Smith, Brian  Tapfar, Francine Marie Tolf, Pat 
Wallace, Christian Ward, Kelley Jean  White and Nancy Compton Williams.

The Editor's Choices for this  issue go to go to Lynne Potts for her poem 
"Brown Overcoat," and  Christian Ward for his poem "Marine throwing hand 
grenade." 

The  "classic" poem is "November" by Walter de la Mare.

Please  consider supporting our work at The Fairfield Review by making a tax  
deductible donation. Details are on our web site home page, or click on  the 
link on the left.

Thank you for your continued  support. If you know of someone we should add 
to this mailing list,  please send us an email at the link below.

If you would like to  be removed from this mailing list, please click on the 
Update Profile or  SafeUnsubscribe link below, and accept our sincere apology 
for the email  intrusion. Also, please let us know if you receive a duplicate 
copy of  this announcement. 

Authors seeking to submit their  writing should visit our Editors & Authors 
page from our home  page, or click on the link on the left.      
 

_The Fairfield Review Fall Issue_ 
(http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001SEz6yT72FJfdKRuBg9LXgReXonILa9y8EAlC3BHMesGcUiicGsEgBNsJrmBGtb4wrNJjCzVniLoh_ytpgEKMefTFFi2N66
-Tn_3Pz_ga3dfdLhXFkc80WQ==)   

        
 
Thank you for your  interest in The Fairfield Review.  
Sincerely, 
Janet & Edward Granger-Happ  
Editors, The Fairfield Review, Inc.
 
____________________________________
email: _fairfieldreview at hpmd.com_ (mailto:fairfieldreview at hpmd.com)  
web: _http://www.fairfieldreview.org_ (http://www.fairfieldreview.org)  


       


-



 



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From JforJames  Mon Nov 12 11:40:04 2007
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:40:04 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] otherwise blog, displays vizpo
Message-ID: <ca8.1cb17147.3469dbe4@aol.com>

From:          Andy Gricevich 
Subject:       otherwise

OTHERWISE. Not the world's least frequently-cultivated blog, but far from  
the most cared-for, or the most succinct. Nonetheless, recent posts exist, and  
include text-art and posts on the Spahr-Young/Ashton debate, Kent Johnson, 
Paul  Chan, Robin Blaser, Lou & Peter Berryman, Jasper Bernes, Jess and  more!

_http://ndgwriting.blogspot.com_ (http://ndgwriting.blogspot.com/) 






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From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 12 17:05:58 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:05:58 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] M.I.A.
Message-ID: <006601c82578$3537c610$d9a83252@ANNY>

Sent by Bill Lavender:

She is Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam, a British born Sri Lankan who writes and performs a very politicized version of hip-hop. She is also a visual artist. Wiki on M.I.A.
Her web site (several songs and videos offered gratis).




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jfq  Mon Nov 12 17:28:47 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:28:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] M.I.A.
In-Reply-To: <006601c82578$3537c610$d9a83252@ANNY>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711121428470.5803@hymn34.u.washington.edu>

I'm always skeptical of "artists" who feel compelled to hyphenate their job descriptions.

Sincerely,

Jason Quackenbush
Poet-Critic-Musician-Photographer-Songwriter-Editor-Composer-Recording Engineer-Sound Designer-Csound Programmer-Publisher-Former Convenience Store Clerk-Make Up Artist-Statistician-Novelist-Guitarist-Quality Assurance Consultant-Record Producer-Painter-CGI Animator-Aesthete-Butcher-Baker-Candlestick Maker-Good Lay-Curmudgeon

(I'm hoping to add carpenter, sculptor, and welder by the end of the year. My new years resolution is to work in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, and Spy)



On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> Sent by Bill Lavender:
>
> She is Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam, a British born Sri Lankan who writes and performs a very politicized version of hip-hop. She is also a visual artist. Wiki on M.I.A.
> Her web site (several songs and videos offered gratis).
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>





From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 12 17:53:12 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:53:12 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] M.I.A.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711121428470.5803@hymn34.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <007501c8257e$cdc313c0$d9a83252@ANNY>

:-)
What incredible qualifications you have. A Baker! That is simply superb!


From: <jfq at myuw.net>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:28 PM


> I'm always skeptical of "artists" who feel compelled to hyphenate their 
> job descriptions.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jason Quackenbush
> Poet-Critic-Musician-Photographer-Songwriter-Editor-Composer-Recording 
> Engineer-Sound Designer-Csound Programmer-Publisher-Former Convenience 
> Store Clerk-Make Up Artist-Statistician-Novelist-Guitarist-Quality 
> Assurance Consultant-Record Producer-Painter-CGI 
> Animator-Aesthete-Butcher-Baker-Candlestick Maker-Good Lay-Curmudgeon
>
> (I'm hoping to add carpenter, sculptor, and welder by the end of the year. 
> My new years resolution is to work in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, and Spy)
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> Sent by Bill Lavender:
>>
>> She is Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam, a British born Sri Lankan who writes 
>> and performs a very politicized version of hip-hop. She is also a visual 
>> artist. Wiki on M.I.A.
>> Her web site (several songs and videos offered gratis).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Anny Ballardini
>> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
>> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing 
>> star!
>> Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 




From anny.ballardini  Mon Nov 12 17:54:16 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:54:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: hat by bunn in a new place
Message-ID: <007f01c8257e$f4f3bb20$d9a83252@ANNY>

Forwarding from chuck, a lovely video:


> good news!
> 
> hats by bunn, the documentary, has made it up the google search engine!
> 
> if you google it, you will come to it at this address.
> 
> go check it and please spread the word.
> 
> 
> chuck
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK0Qew7iEys



From grahamd  Tue Nov 13 09:40:56 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:40:56 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
Message-ID: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>

Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:

"I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each  
day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as a  
sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie gains  
his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be referencing  
"Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted Osborne (who  
wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up the thread of an  
ongoing story line; develop it forward one plot-point a day; include  
a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or revelation; and deliver his  
readers safely to a stopping place that still contained an impetus  
toward the next day's strip. And all of this done entertainingly  
(sometimes movingly) and without going stale. Really -- what an  
accomplishment!

When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few  
reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14  
lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been translated  
into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into the terms of  
21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology. Every block-of-a- 
sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its individual infrastructure,  
even as it ultimately contributes toward a larger, ongoing entity  
called a "sonnet sequence." I'm not alone in this. I don't know if  
John Berryman would have nodded toward the comics as an inspiring  
source of structure (and mongrel wordplay) for his "Dream Songs," but  
I think his sonnets have genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as  
meaningfully as with Shakespeare."

--Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and  
Comic Strips."
Full article here:
http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk- 
goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From jeff.newberry  Tue Nov 13 09:59:55 2007
From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:59:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>

David,

I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry.   I've even
blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.

My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those that are
narrative in some sense.  I like how some single-panel cartoons (say *Dennis
the Menace*  or *Marmaduke* or a host of others) imply a long-standing
narrative without depending on said narrative for the cartoon's
effectiveness.

I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class of lyric
poems do the same:  they imply narrative without *depending* on it, if that
makes any sense.

Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.

Best,

Jeff Newberry

On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

>  Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:
>
> "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each day's
> strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as a sonnet's.
> (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie gains his power from
> being in the lamp," he may as well be referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within
> that restricted rhythm, Ted Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches")
> needed to pick up the thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward
> one plot-point a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or
> revelation; and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place that still
> contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And all of this done
> entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without going stale. Really -- what
> an accomplishment!
>
> When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few reviewers
> have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14 lines), it's easy
> to see how Mickey and Minnie have been translated into my friends, and their
> rollicking adventures into the terms of 21st century politics or
> Hawking-esque cosmology. Every block-of-a-sonnet is a panel that hopes to
> have its individual infrastructure, even as it ultimately contributes toward
> a larger, ongoing entity called a "sonnet sequence." I'm not alone in this.
> I don't know if John Berryman would have nodded toward the comics as an
> inspiring source of structure (and mongrel wordplay) for his "Dream Songs,"
> but I think his sonnets have genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as
> meaningfully as with Shakespeare."
>
> --Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and Comic
> Strips."
> Full article here:
>
> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From anny.ballardini  Tue Nov 13 10:14:58 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:14:58 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009d01c82607$f4be7c10$cf3e014f@ANNY>

I find this quite uncanny - unheimlich - sticking to Freud's definition, I just discovered that Saussure was born and died exactly 13 years after Nietzsche:
Nietzsche: 1844-1900
Saussure: 1857-1913
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From grahamd  Tue Nov 13 10:46:43 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:46:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6BE7F5AD-AC79-404F-B657-439EC3080963@ripon.edu>

Yes, if a 4-panel strip is a sonnet, I suppose a single-panel one is  
something even more intense & difficult to make work, a haiku or  
epigram.

Given my current obsessions, the aspect of all this that most  
intrigues me is the *regularity* of such comic strips, playing out  
over long periods of time.  Keeping things fresh, performing  
variations on themes while advancing multiple narrative lines, making  
each strip self-contained while also part of a larger arc, letting  
surprises occur while maintaining a central stylistic identity, etc.-- 
and doing all this day after day, week after week, year after year-- 
these are stiff  challenges.  Those who succeed, like Gary Trudeau,  
have my entire admiration.

Not limited to comic strip artists, of course.  I recall someone  
asking Russell Baker how he managed to write all those columns over  
so many years.  What do you do, the interviewer wanted to know, when  
the deadline's upon you and, well, the column just isn't very good?   
Baker said, in essence, "what I do is publish it!"

I do wonder if Goldbarth pays much attention to current comics.  The  
qualities he praises in Krazy Kat, etc., don't strike me as things of  
the past at all.  There are a number of strips in our Milwaukee paper  
that do just what he describes the old-time strips doing.   
Dunesbury's the most consistently successful, to my eyes, but there  
are others.




========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 13, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote:

> David,
>
> I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry.    
> I've even blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.
>
> My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those  
> that are narrative in some sense.  I like how some single-panel  
> cartoons (say Dennis the Menace  or Marmaduke or a host of others)  
> imply a long-standing narrative without depending on said narrative  
> for the cartoon's effectiveness.
>
> I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class  
> of lyric poems do the same:  they imply narrative without depending  
> on it, if that makes any sense.
>
> Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:
>
> "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each  
> day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as  
> a sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie  
> gains his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be  
> referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted  
> Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up the  
> thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward one plot-point  
> a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or revelation;  
> and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place that still  
> contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And all of this  
> done entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without going stale.  
> Really -- what an accomplishment!
>
> When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few  
> reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14  
> lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been translated  
> into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into the terms of  
> 21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology. Every block-of-a- 
> sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its individual infrastructure,  
> even as it ultimately contributes toward a larger, ongoing entity  
> called a "sonnet sequence." I'm not alone in this. I don't know if  
> John Berryman would have nodded toward the comics as an inspiring  
> source of structure (and mongrel wordplay) for his "Dream Songs,"  
> but I think his sonnets have genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as  
> meaningfully as with Shakespeare."
>
> --Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and  
> Comic Strips."
> Full article here:
> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk- 
> goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than  
> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From editor  Tue Nov 13 11:37:32 2007
From: editor (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:37:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] EOAGH ISSUE FOUR LAUNCH And READING 11/18
Message-ID: <61009.74.66.79.229.1194971852.squirrel@webmail.web.com>

SUNDAY NOVEMBER 18
5 PM at Unnameable Books

A Poetry Reading Celebrating the Launch of
EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts
Issue 4

Unnameable Books
456 Bergen Street
Brooklyn, NY

FREE

Featuring:
Gilbert Adair
Cara Benson
Joel Chace
James Cook
Alan Davies
Thom Donovan
Joanna Fuhrman
Rebecca Gopoian
Dan Hoy
Sara Marcus
Stephen Paul Miller
Nick Piombino
Tim Peterson
Evelyn Reilly
Edwin Rodriguez
Gregory Vincent St Thomasino
Shelly Taylor
Adam Tobin
Lynn Xu

EOAGH Issue 4
Edited by Tim Peterson

will be available at
http://chax.org/eoagh
prior to this event -- more info soon.

***The editors of Time Out New York have appointed Unnameable Books as one
of NYC's 50 Essential Secrets.***


Posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino




From halvard  Tue Nov 13 12:57:14 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:57:14 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Emergency
Message-ID: <89F05027-911A-4CDB-8218-19FAEA9A8462@earthlink.net>

Sonnet: Emergency

"The emergency is to ensure elections go in an undisturbed manner."
		--Gen. Pervez Musharraf, president of Pakistan

One cup of green tea has no sugar, sodium, or fat, and roughly
one half to one third the caffeine of coffee, emergency teams
responding to terrorist attacks have found. Extraordinary
measures require extraordinary powers, all potentates agree.

This time of year, animals are so busy attending to their young
that they often do not see oncoming humvees. Busy sacking
judges, heldentenors often fail to hit those high notes, bringing
on violent retaliations by clacks in the gallery, above the law

in so many ways. Ousted conductors, kept under house arrest
until they see or hear the errors of their ways, prepare brochures
to recruit militant violists who can be trusted to obey their oaths
of allegiance to the Lahore Philharmonic or whatever gang of

instrumentalists they choose to ally themselves with, under mar-
tial law applying equally to strings, brass, winds, and percussion.




Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html

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From Opus40-01  Tue Nov 13 13:11:52 2007
From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:11:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4739E8E8.6050205@opus40.org>

Remember Poetry Comics by Dave Morice? They were good, but I always 
wanted them to be better.


Jeff Newberry wrote:
> David,
>  
> I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry.   I've 
> even blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.
>  
> My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those 
> that are narrative in some sense.  I like how some single-panel 
> cartoons (say _Dennis the Menace_  or _Marmaduke_ or a host of others) 
> imply a long-standing narrative without depending on said narrative 
> for the cartoon's effectiveness.
>  
> I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class of 
> lyric poems do the same:  they imply narrative without /depending/ on 
> it, if that makes any sense.
>  
> Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.
>  
> Best,
>  
> Jeff Newberry
>
> On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu 
> <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:
>
>     "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each
>     day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as
>     a sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie
>     gains his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be
>     referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted
>     Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up
>     the thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward one
>     plot-point a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or
>     revelation; and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place
>     that still contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And
>     all of this done entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without
>     going stale. Really -- what an accomplishment!
>      
>     When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few
>     reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14
>     lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been
>     translated into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into
>     the terms of 21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology.
>     Every block-of-a-sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its
>     individual infrastructure, even as it ultimately contributes
>     toward a larger, ongoing entity called a "sonnet sequence." I'm
>     not alone in this. I don't know if John Berryman would have nodded
>     toward the comics as an inspiring source of structure (and mongrel
>     wordplay) for his "Dream Songs," but I think his sonnets have
>     genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as meaningfully as with
>     Shakespeare."
>
>     --Albert Goldbarth.  fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch:  Of Sonnets and
>     Comic Strips."  
>     Full article here:
>     http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines
>
>
>     ========================================
>     David Graham
>     grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>
>     Home Page:
>     http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
>     Poetry Library:
>     http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>     ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than 
> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>   

-- 
Tad Richards
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/




From jforjames  Tue Nov 13 15:42:58 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:42:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
Message-ID: <8C9F44CE8AB4004-1FBC-6925@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com>


http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm

Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'
November 08, 2007: 04:37 PM EST


NEW YORK (Associated Press) - A federal judge has ruled that compiling Dorothy Parker's poems was a far less original act than writing them.


The editor of a book of uncollected work by the late author did not show enough "creativity" to claim copyright infringement from a near-identical set contained in a book released by Penguin Group (USA), U.S. District Judge John F. Keenan said Tuesday, contradicting a decision he made four years ago.


Stuart Y. Silverstein's "Not Much Fun: The Lost Poems of Dorothy Parker" was published in 1996 by Scribner, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. The Penguin book, "Dorothy Parker, Complete Poems," came out in 1999 and includes all the 122 pieces assembled by Silverstein, who was not credited. The poems themselves are in the public domain.


The Penguin Group is owned by London-based media conglomerate Pearson PLC. Simon & Schuster is the publishing arm of CBS Corp.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jfq  Tue Nov 13 16:03:54 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:03:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
In-Reply-To: <8C9F44CE8AB4004-1FBC-6925@FWM-M38.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711131303540.3630@hymn12.u.washington.edu>

takes a lot of chutzpah to claim copyright on a sequence of somebody else's poems.


On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:

>
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm
>
> Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem
> Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'
> November 08, 2007: 04:37 PM EST
>
>
> NEW YORK (Associated Press) - A federal judge has ruled that compiling Dorothy Parker's poems was a far less original act than writing them.
>
>
> The editor of a book of uncollected work by the late author did not show enough "creativity" to claim copyright infringement from a near-identical set contained in a book released by Penguin Group (USA), U.S. District Judge John F. Keenan said Tuesday, contradicting a decision he made four years ago.
>
>
> Stuart Y. Silverstein's "Not Much Fun: The Lost Poems of Dorothy Parker" was published in 1996 by Scribner, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. The Penguin book, "Dorothy Parker, Complete Poems," came out in 1999 and includes all the 122 pieces assembled by Silverstein, who was not credited. The poems themselves are in the public domain.
>
>
> The Penguin Group is owned by London-based media conglomerate Pearson PLC. Simon & Schuster is the publishing arm of CBS Corp.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>





From jforjames  Tue Nov 13 20:02:41 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:02:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711131303540.3630@hymn12.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9F471315A61CE-974-F8C@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>


Yes it does...but I was thinking perhaps the evidence in favor of the plaintiff was that there are seminars and classes and lots of shop talk suurrounding the topic of 'building your manuscript', 'making the manuscript work', etc. So perhaps he did 'shape' the best of Dorothy Parker.
Finnegan
- 
Bric-a-Brac
???
?
 Little things that no one needs -- 
Little things to joke about -- 
Little landscapes, done in beads. 
Little morals, woven out, 
Little wreaths of gilded grass, 
Little brigs of whittled oak 
Bottled painfully in glass; 
These are made by lonely folk. 


Lonely folk have lines of days 
Long and faltering and thin; 
Therefore -- little wax bouquets, 
Prayers cut upon a pin, 
Little maps of pinkish lands, 
Little charts of curly seas, 
Little plats of linen strands, 
Little verses, such as these. 



--Dorothy Parker?

?----Original Message-----
From: jfq at myuw.net
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 



takes a lot of chutzpah to claim copyright on a sequence of somebody else's poems.?
?
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
?
>?
> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm?
>?
> Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem?
> Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'?
>


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jfq  Tue Nov 13 20:10:47 2007
From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:10:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem 
In-Reply-To: <8C9F471315A61CE-974-F8C@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0711131710470.7126@hymn34.u.washington.edu>


Possibly. Although I've always looked with skinny eyes at that breadloaf seminar crap. My glass-half-empty view would be that this ruling just goes to show how useless books and seminars and classes about that kind of thing are.

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:

>
> Yes it does...but I was thinking perhaps the evidence in favor of the plaintiff was that there are seminars and classes and lots of shop talk suurrounding the topic of 'building your manuscript', 'making the manuscript work', etc. So perhaps he did 'shape' the best of Dorothy Parker.
> Finnegan
> -
> Bric-a-Brac
> ???
> ?
> Little things that no one needs --
> Little things to joke about --
> Little landscapes, done in beads.
> Little morals, woven out,
> Little wreaths of gilded grass,
> Little brigs of whittled oak
> Bottled painfully in glass;
> These are made by lonely folk.
>
>
> Lonely folk have lines of days
> Long and faltering and thin;
> Therefore -- little wax bouquets,
> Prayers cut upon a pin,
> Little maps of pinkish lands,
> Little charts of curly seas,
> Little plats of linen strands,
> Little verses, such as these.
>
>
>
> --Dorothy Parker?
>
> ?----Original Message-----
> From: jfq at myuw.net
> Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
> Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 4:03 pm
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem
>
>
>
> takes a lot of chutzpah to claim copyright on a sequence of somebody else's poems.?
> ?
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote:?
> ?
>> ?
>> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/4a30b27d0cb6a619f022a61fd51d368a.htm?
>> ?
>> Judge Rules on What Makes a Poem?
>> Judge Rules That Compiler of Dorothy Parker Showed 'no Creativity'?
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>





From jforjames  Tue Nov 13 20:11:45 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:11:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch
In-Reply-To: <4739E8E8.6050205@opus40.org>
References: <A79E7397-8EB5-4A11-B011-2A377E6DB16B@ripon.edu>	<731bb17a0711130659s57d63842u5da4cd7424862fd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4739E8E8.6050205@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <8C9F4727594A2B7-974-1013@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>

Jim Behrle's poetry comix are a wonder.
http://greatestlivingpoet.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html
Of course he's an 'inside job'.
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: TheOldMole <Opus40-01 at opus40.org>
Bcc: jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Shakespeare in Dogpatch


Remember Poetry Comics by Dave Morice? They were good, but I always wanted them to be better.?
?
Jeff Newberry wrote:?
> David,?
> > I've long noticed a similiarty between comic strips and poetry. I've > even blogged about it, but I've long since taken the post down.?
> > My interest, however, is in single-panel strips, particularly those > that are narrative in some sense. I like how some single-panel > cartoons (say _Dennis the Menace_ or _Marmaduke_ or a host of others) > imply a long-standing narrative without depending on said narrative > for the cartoon's effectiveness.?
> > I've been thinking (for years now, actually) that a certain class of > lyric poems do the same: they imply narrative without /depending/ on > it, if that makes any sense.?
> > Thanks for the heads up on Goldbarth.?
> > Best,?
> > Jeff Newberry?
>?
> On Nov 13, 2007 9:40 AM, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu > <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>> wrote:?
>?
> Albert Goldbarth on the links between poetry & old-time comic strips:?
>?
> "I mean the limits and promises written into the form itself. Each?
> day's strip was standardly four panels, a structure as exacting as?
> a sonnet's. (When poet-maestro Richard Wilbur says, "The Genie?
> gains his power from being in the lamp," he may as well be?
> referencing "Steve Canyon.") Within that restricted rhythm, Ted?
> Osborne (who wrote "The Race for the Riches") needed to pick up?
> the thread of an ongoing story line; develop it forward one?
> plot-point a day; include a moment of payoff -- comedy, crisis or?
> revelation; and deliver his readers safely to a stopping place?
> that still contained an impetus toward the next day's strip. And?
> all of this done entertainingly (sometimes movingly) and without?
> going stale. Really -- what an accomplishment!?
> > When I look at my own work, marked by many series of what a few?
> reviewers have called loose sonnets (usually unrhymed blocks of 14?
> lines), it's easy to see how Mickey and Minnie have been?
> translated into my friends, and their rollicking adventures into?
> the terms of 21st century politics or Hawking-esque cosmology.?
> Every block-of-a-sonnet is a panel that hopes to have its?
> individual infrastructure, even as it ultimately contributes?
> toward a larger, ongoing entity called a "sonnet sequence." I'm?
> not alone in this. I don't know if John Berryman would have nodded?
> toward the comics as an inspiring source of structure (and mongrel?
> wordplay) for his "Dream Songs," but I think his sonnets have?
> genes in common with "Krazy Kat" as meaningfully as with?
> Shakespeare."?
>?
> --Albert Goldbarth. fr. "Shakespeare in Dogpatch: Of Sonnets and?
> Comic Strips." > Full article here:?
> http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-goldbarth5aug05,0,3766826.story?coll=la-books-headlines?
>?
>?
> ========================================?
> David Graham?
> grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>?
>?
> Home Page:?
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html?
>?
> Poetry Library:?
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html?
> ==========================================?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."?
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August?
>?
>?
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
>?
> _______________________________________________?
> New-Poetry mailing list?
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?
> ?
-- Tad Richards?
http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
?
_______________________________________________?
New-Poetry mailing list?
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu?
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From jforjames  Wed Nov 14 08:58:58 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:58:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Baraka can't get his day in court
Message-ID: <8C9F4DDA352FC6E-974-25D5@WEBMAIL-MC17.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/13/9.11.poet/


updated 12:05 p.m. EST, Tue November 13, 2007?? 
Supreme Court won't hear appeal over 9/11 poem

Story Highlights
New Jersey poet laureate gave reading in 2002 of controversial poem about 9/11

Poem suggests "Israelis" had advance warning of attacks on World Trade Center

Firing poet Amiri Baraka not allowed, so officials eliminated poet laureate position

Baraka sued; Court of Appeals ruled against him; Supreme Court let that ruling stand



>From Bill Mears
CNN
???? 
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court refused Tuesday to hear an appeal from poet Amiri Baraka, whose controversial poem about the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks led to the elimination of an honorary post he held as New Jersey's poet laureate.


The justices declined without comment to intervene in Baraka's lawsuit against current and former state officials who he says retaliated against him for his public reading of "Somebody Blew Up America."




________________________________________________________________________
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From grahamd  Wed Nov 14 11:06:17 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:06:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] In search of John Ashbery
Message-ID: <F9E87C0C-FEB7-4AAC-8D21-86DF621A3CFA@ripon.edu>

Quite an entertaining and intelligent review of Ashbery's newest  
collection over at Boston Review.  By Forrest Gander.

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR32.4/article_gander.php

"Ashbery?about whom so much has been written that almost anything  
said about his work sounds like quotation?today is an entirely remade  
poet, a different creature altogether from the Ashbery of the three  
big prizes and the MacArthur Fellowship, different from the  
essentially French poet staring wistfully into a convex mirror and  
describing the world as it recedes dizzily back from his head into  
some far vanishing point. The Ashbery of today is as altered from his  
earlier work as the late hardened Yeats from the early bubbling myth- 
flecked Yeats."


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



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From halvard  Wed Nov 14 11:24:11 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:24:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] In search of John Ashbery
In-Reply-To: <F9E87C0C-FEB7-4AAC-8D21-86DF621A3CFA@ripon.edu>
References: <F9E87C0C-FEB7-4AAC-8D21-86DF621A3CFA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <450014F8-2DC3-4F46-8EC4-9D7C28C69713@earthlink.net>

Delightful, David. Thanks for pointing us to it. And,
most amazingly, he spells Ashbery's name correctly
all the way through. Or maybe it's some competent
editing on the part of BR.

Hal

"Please stand clear of the closing doors."

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html



On Nov 14, 2007, at 10:06 AM, David Graham wrote:

> Quite an entertaining and intelligent review of Ashbery's newest  
> collection over at Boston Review.  By Forrest Gander.
>
> http://www.bostonreview.net/BR32.4/article_gander.php
>
> "Ashbery?about whom so much has been written that almost anything  
> said about his work sounds like quotation?today is an entirely  
> remade poet, a different creature altogether from the Ashbery of the  
> three big prizes and the MacArthur Fellowship, different from the  
> essentially French poet staring wistfully into a convex mirror and  
> describing the world as it recedes dizzily back from his head into  
> some far vanishing point. The Ashbery of today is as altered from  
> his earlier work as the late hardened Yeats from the early bubbling  
> myth-flecked Yeats."
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From opus40-01  Wed Nov 14 12:20:46 2007
From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:20:46 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] New on Tad's Opus 40 Blog: Who New?
Message-ID: <4914.1195060846@opus40.org>

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From rog3r.day  Wed Nov 14 17:04:14 2007
From: rog3r.day (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:04:14 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Where are the war poets?
In-Reply-To: <C3014D49-3353-462F-ACDA-0BBF78FD984C@earthlink.net>
References: <d6a.1137aef6.3460fa01@cs.com> <472FDE1C.3030104@opus40.org>
	<012801c82028$f0434420$d0c9cc60$@edu>
	<991AB526-6F10-4B45-A301-1B293CD6B672@ripon.edu>
	<473082B1.2020201@medicine.nodak.edu>
	<42D6A423-8B6A-454A-A455-06C96F531E95@earthlink.net>
	<C3014D49-3353-462F-ACDA-0BBF78FD984C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480711141404w204c7314q539c68272dc96157@mail.gmail.com>

then they should be reading this:

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Gitmo-sop.pdf

Happy Reading.

Roger

On Nov 10, 2007 2:52 PM, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> And some of them are here--
>
> http://www.poetsagainstthewar.org/default.asp
>
> Hal
>
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 4:28 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> Try Keith Wilson's Grave Registry (Grove Press),
> Midwatch (Sumac?) or the expanded version of
> those more recently out from a press the name of
> which escapes me (I think it's in Montana). Very
> good Korean War (ahem, Police Action) work.
>
> Hal
>
>
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:
>
>  Sam Gwynn wrote,
>
>  "If a poet wants to get across the reality of a contemporary war (as Turner
> does) there is the huge stumbling block of instantaneous media coverage.
> Still, this doesn't explain the absence of Korean War poetry, which
> certainly provided enough amazing imagery (those shit-fertilized rice
> fields) to inspire my junior high school teachers (who were of that
> generation) but not the poets."
>
>  There is an anthology titled Retrieving Bones: Stories and Poems of the
> Korean War, edited by W. D. Erhart & Philip K. Jason (Rutgers University
> Press, 1999), which includes poems by William Childress, Rolando Hinojosa,
> James Magner Jr., Reg Saner, William Wantling, and Keith Wilson. I don't
> have access to a copy, so I don't know about how directly the poems relate
> to the war, but it might be worth the effort to track down a copy of the
> book.
>
>  Richard W. Wilsnack
>  rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>  _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



-- 
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
Roman Proverb



From jforjames  Wed Nov 14 21:02:35 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:02:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jarman's Epistles
Message-ID: <8C9F542B98BE878-BF0-2E19@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com>


http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Arts/Books/2007/11/15/A_Poetry_of_Body_and_Soul/
November 15, 2007 
?
A Poetry of Body and Soul
Mark Jarman?s newest collection continues to confound a secular critical world

by Pablo Tanguay 

?

Epistles, By Mark Jarman (Sarabande, 95 pp., $13.95)

Mark Jarman will read from his book Nov. 18 at Davis-Kidd Booksellers, 6 p.m.


Poetry is a search for meaning. Until relatively recently, that has meant a search for God. A distinctly Christian poetics began with the New Testament, notably in the epistles of Paul, and went on to include, among countless others, Donne, Milton, Blake and Hopkins. But by the middle of the 20th century, a century of increasing agnosticism, fewer Western poets mediated their search for meaning through religion. With few exceptions, serious poets stopped writing directly to or about God.



________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From editor  Thu Nov 15 10:29:39 2007
From: editor (=?iso-8859-1?Q?e=B7ratio?=)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:29:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sightings and Hearings: Huth & Hill at the Stain Bar
	Friday Nov. 16
Message-ID: <60701.74.66.79.229.1195140579.squirrel@webmail.web.com>

Sightings and Hearings: Geof Huth & Crag Hill at the Stain Bar, Friday
Nov. 16

Poets Crag Hill and Geof Huth will give a reading entitled "Sightings &
Hearings" at the Stain Bar in Brooklyn, New York, on November 16th.
Combining their interest in visual, sound, and even textual poetry, they
will read and perform, together and apart, a wide range of works. This will
be the first time Hill and Huth have performed together since their
performance in March of this year, so don't miss this east coast appearance.
If a reading isn't enough encouragement, Stain Bar has a great selection of
New-York-only beer and other drinks.


Crag Hill and Geof Huth
Friday, 16 November 2007
6:30 pm
Stain Bar
766 Grand Street
Brooklyn, New York
718/387-7840

To get to Stain Bar, take the L train to Grand and go one block west to 766
Grand Street by the way of Graham Avenue and Humboldt Street.

For those who attend, Crag Hill will offer Nico Vassilakis' Text Loses
Time for
$12.00! Ask him for one.

Bios of the Performers:

Crag Hill has been exploring the world through the prisms of verbal and
visual language since his re-birth in the 1970s. Writer of numerous
chapbooks and/or other print interventions, including Dict (Xexoxial
Endarchy), Another Switch (Norton Coker Press), and Yes James, Yes Joyce
(Loose Gravel Press), he has also once edited two magazines, Score and its
successor Spore. His latest book, co-edited with Bob Grumman, is Writing to
be Seen, the first major anthology of visual poetry in 30 years. He writes
frequently about poetry at his blog, Crg Hill's poetry scorecard .

Geof Huth is a writer of textual and visual poetry who has lived on most of
the continents on earth. He writes frequently about visual poetry,
especially on his weblog, dbqp: visualizing poetics. His chapbooks include
"Analphabet," "The Dreams of the Fishwife," "ghostlight," "Peristyle," "To a
Small Stream of Water (or Ditch)," and "wreadings." Huth edited &2:
an/thology of Pwoermds, the first-ever anthology of one-word poems. His most
recent books are a box of pages entitled water vapour and the chapbook, "Out
 of Character."



posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino

http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/

e?






From jforjames  Thu Nov 15 10:52:28 2007
From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:52:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
Message-ID: <8C9F5B6A8F4F103-D10-490@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com>


>From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
--? 

Title: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright? 
Contributor: Bruce Henricksen (Editor) 
Robert Johnson (Editor)? 
Publication Date: February 2008? 
Publisher: Lost Hills Books
?http://www.losthillsbooks.com/
Country of Publication: United States? 
Market: United States? 
ISBN: 0-9798535-1-6? 
ISBN 13: 978-0-9798535-1-7? 
Item Status: Active Record? 
Binding Format: Perfect? 
Pages: 84? 
Price: $14.75(USD) Invoice (Publisher)
?
Synopsis/Annotation: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright brings together elegies written by many of Wright's most important contemporaries, including Robert Bly, Galway Kinnell, W.S. Merwin, and C.K Williams. Interspersed with these are poems by a newer generation of writers inspired by Wright. This unique collection attests to the continuing stature of James Wright on the American literary landscape.
?
?


________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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From grahamd  Thu Nov 15 11:27:26 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:27:26 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <8C9F5B6A8F4F103-D10-490@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9F5B6A8F4F103-D10-490@webmail-da16.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <A65DD9AD-BB16-4213-87E5-076208FEADE9@ripon.edu>

I do wonder about James Wright's "continuing stature."  Are there  
really a lot of twenty-something poets eagerly lapping up his work as  
poets of my generation did 30 years back?

Interesting discussion on Robert Peake's blog, between him & Joe  
Duemer, about James Wright's work & in particular whether it's  
crippled by sentimentality.

I've had an experience similar to Joe D's--having love love loved  
Wright's work when I was starting out, I came to find him harder to  
read as I got older.  Reading over his collected poems with a student  
a few years back as part of an independent study project, I was  
surprised how many poems I found unreadably weak.  Ultimately, I  
think a lot of his poems have not aged well at all, though I still  
have great fondness for many of them.  And he's got his share of good  
ones lodged where they'll be hard to get rid of, of course.  Just not  
as many as I'd once thought.

Here's their blog discussion--

http://www.robertpeake.com/archives/358-James-Wright,-On-Having-My- 
Pocket-Picked-In-Rome.html

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 15, 2007, at 9:52 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote:

> From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
> -- 
> Title: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
> Contributor: Bruce Henricksen (Editor)
> Robert Johnson (Editor)
> Publication Date: February 2008
> Publisher: Lost Hills Books
>  http://www.losthillsbooks.com/
> Country of Publication: United States
> Market: United States
> ISBN: 0-9798535-1-6
> ISBN 13: 978-0-9798535-1-7
> Item Status: Active Record
> Binding Format: Perfect
> Pages: 84
> Price: $14.75(USD) Invoice (Publisher)
>
> Synopsis/Annotation: From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James  
> Wright brings together elegies written by many of Wright's most  
> important contemporaries, including Robert Bly, Galway Kinnell,  
> W.S. Merwin, and C.K Williams. Interspersed with these are poems by  
> a newer generation of writers inspired by Wright. This unique  
> collection attests to the continuing stature of James Wright on the  
> American literary landscape.
>
>
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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Nov 15 11:42:42 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:42:42 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
Message-ID: <ced.200a0165.346dd102@cs.com>

I still love this one.

A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
        

    
Near the dry river's water-mark we found
Your brother Minnegan,
Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
Told me to find you, even if the rain,
And tell you he was drowned.

I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
The wreck of someone's Ford:
I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
You told me once the waking up was hard,
The daylight beating at you like a board.
Blood in my stomach sank.

Beside, you told him never to go out
Along the river-side
Drinking and singing, clattering about.
You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
And pitch down on his side.

Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
For coming up this far,
Leaving the note, and running as I came.
I'll go and tell my father where you are.
You'd better go find Minnegan before
Policemen hear and come.

Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
You old son of a bitch.
You better hurry down to Minnegan;
He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
The poor old man.   

    
   
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From grahamd  Thu Nov 15 11:48:20 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:48:20 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <ced.200a0165.346dd102@cs.com>
References: <ced.200a0165.346dd102@cs.com>
Message-ID: <CDFC1356-B590-4E7A-A5C0-EB4FFF03E133@ripon.edu>

I still love a lot of Wright.

Here's my favorite.

As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient  
Chinese Governor


      And how can I, born in evil days
      And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?

             -- Written A.D. 819


Po Chu-i, balding old politician,
What's the use?
I think of you,
Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,
When you were being towed up the rapids
Toward some political job or other
In the city of Chungshou.
You made it, I guess,
By dark.

But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,
And the tall rocks of Minneapolis
Build me my own black twilight
Of bamboo ropes and waters.
Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?
Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness
Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing
But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.
Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?
Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope
For a thousand years?

--James Wright



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> I still love this one.
>
> A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
>
>
>
> Near the dry river's water-mark we found
> Your brother Minnegan,
> Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
> Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
> Told me to find you, even if the rain,
> And tell you he was drowned.
>
> I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
> The wreck of someone's Ford:
> I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
> You told me once the waking up was hard,
> The daylight beating at you like a board.
> Blood in my stomach sank.
>
> Beside, you told him never to go out
> Along the river-side
> Drinking and singing, clattering about.
> You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
> I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
> And pitch down on his side.
>
> Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
> For coming up this far,
> Leaving the note, and running as I came.
> I'll go and tell my father where you are.
> You'd better go find Minnegan before
> Policemen hear and come.
>
> Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
> You old son of a bitch.
> You better hurry down to Minnegan;
> He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
> Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
> The poor old man.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From skip  Thu Nov 15 12:01:33 2007
From: skip (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:01:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <CDFC1356-B590-4E7A-A5C0-EB4FFF03E133@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

I guess I've always realized how important Pound's translations in _Cathay_
were to a number of Wright's poems. This poem was an obvious case in point.
And I don't just say this because of the last line (compare to "And send it
a thousand miles, thinking . . ." -last line from "The Exile's Letter") but
because of the phrasing throughout.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:48 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright

 

I still love a lot of Wright.  

 

Here's my favorite.

 

As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient Chinese
Governor

 

     And how can I, born in evil days

     And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?

 

            -- Written A.D. 819

 

 

Po Chu-i, balding old politician,

What's the use?

I think of you,

Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,

When you were being towed up the rapids

Toward some political job or other

In the city of Chungshou.

You made it, I guess,

By dark.

 

But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,

And the tall rocks of Minneapolis

Build me my own black twilight

Of bamboo ropes and waters.

Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?

Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness

Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing

But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.

Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?

Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope

For a thousand years?

 

--James Wright

 

 

 

========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu

 

Home Page:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

 

Poetry Library:

http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html

==========================================

 





 

On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:





I still love this one.

A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack



Near the dry river's water-mark we found
Your brother Minnegan,
Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
Told me to find you, even if the rain,
And tell you he was drowned.

I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
The wreck of someone's Ford:
I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
You told me once the waking up was hard,
The daylight beating at you like a board.
Blood in my stomach sank.

Beside, you told him never to go out
Along the river-side
Drinking and singing, clattering about.
You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
And pitch down on his side.

Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
For coming up this far,
Leaving the note, and running as I came.
I'll go and tell my father where you are.
You'd better go find Minnegan before
Policemen hear and come.

Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
You old son of a bitch.
You better hurry down to Minnegan;
He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
The poor old man. 



_______________________________________________

New-Poetry mailing list

New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

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From grahamd  Thu Nov 15 12:21:26 2007
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:21:26 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>

You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think  
he read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem  
below quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi,  
I believe).


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html

Poetry Library:
http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
==========================================



On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Skip Fox wrote:

> I guess I?ve always realized how important Pound?s translations in  
> _Cathay_ were to a number of Wright?s poems. This poem was an  
> obvious case in point. And I don?t just say this because of the  
> last line (compare to ?And send it a thousand miles,  
> thinking . . .? ?last line from ?The Exile?s Letter?) but because  
> of the phrasing throughout.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- 
> bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:48 AM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of  
> James Wright
>
>
> I still love a lot of Wright.
>
>
> Here's my favorite.
>
>
> As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient  
> Chinese Governor
>
>
>      And how can I, born in evil days
>
>      And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?
>
>
>             -- Written A.D. 819
>
>
>
> Po Chu-i, balding old politician,
>
> What's the use?
>
> I think of you,
>
> Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,
>
> When you were being towed up the rapids
>
> Toward some political job or other
>
> In the city of Chungshou.
>
> You made it, I guess,
>
> By dark.
>
>
> But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,
>
> And the tall rocks of Minneapolis
>
> Build me my own black twilight
>
> Of bamboo ropes and waters.
>
> Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?
>
> Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness
>
> Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing
>
> But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.
>
> Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?
>
> Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope
>
> For a thousand years?
>
>
> --James Wright
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
>
> David Graham
>
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
>
> Home Page:
>
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
>
> Poetry Library:
>
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I still love this one.
>
> A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
>
>
>
> Near the dry river's water-mark we found
> Your brother Minnegan,
> Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
> Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
> Told me to find you, even if the rain,
> And tell you he was drowned.
>
> I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
> The wreck of someone's Ford:
> I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
> You told me once the waking up was hard,
> The daylight beating at you like a board.
> Blood in my stomach sank.
>
> Beside, you told him never to go out
> Along the river-side
> Drinking and singing, clattering about.
> You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
> I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
> And pitch down on his side.
>
> Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
> For coming up this far,
> Leaving the note, and running as I came.
> I'll go and tell my father where you are.
> You'd better go find Minnegan before
> Policemen hear and come.
>
> Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
> You old son of a bitch.
> You better hurry down to Minnegan;
> He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
> Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
> The poor old man.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> New-Poetry mailing list
>
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From AlMaginnes  Thu Nov 15 12:27:36 2007
From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:27:36 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
Message-ID: <c8c.1834e28d.346ddb88@aol.com>

I still love and read a lot of Wright. Like any collected poems ABOVE THE  
RIVER contains a lot of weak writing and like a lot of poets, Wright found it  
increasingly easy to publish weak poems and weak books as his career advanced. 
 
The post by one of the blog discussion participants blaming Wright for his  
lack of development as a poet is, to use a scholarly phrase, "bullshit." 



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From halvard  Thu Nov 15 12:28:59 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:28:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright
In-Reply-To: <ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <E8605C13-0A0E-4162-B333-BC2BB81F7DBB@earthlink.net>

As a recall from a conversation with Wright (back a ways),
Robert Payne's collection of Chinese poetry called *The White
Pony* was quite important to him.

Hal

"Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
			--Anselm Hollo

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:21 AM, David Graham wrote:

> You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think  
> he read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the  
> poem below quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai  
> Ju-Yi, I believe).
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>
> Poetry Library:
> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Skip Fox wrote:
>
>> I guess I?ve always realized how important Pound?s translations in  
>> _Cathay_ were to a number of Wright?s poems. This poem was an  
>> obvious case in point. And I don?t just say this because of the  
>> last line (compare to ?And send it a thousand miles,  
>> thinking . . .? ?last line from ?The Exile?s Letter?) but because  
>> of the phrasing throughout.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
>> ] On Behalf Of David Graham
>> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:48 AM
>> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of  
>> James Wright
>>
>>
>> I still love a lot of Wright.
>>
>>
>> Here's my favorite.
>>
>>
>> As I Step Over A Puddle At The End Of Winter, I Think Of An Ancient  
>> Chinese Governor
>>
>>
>>      And how can I, born in evil days
>>
>>      And fresh from failure, ask a kindness of Fate?
>>
>>
>>             -- Written A.D. 819
>>
>>
>>
>> Po Chu-i, balding old politician,
>>
>> What's the use?
>>
>> I think of you,
>>
>> Uneasily entering the gorges of the Yang-Tze,
>>
>> When you were being towed up the rapids
>>
>> Toward some political job or other
>>
>> In the city of Chungshou.
>>
>> You made it, I guess,
>>
>> By dark.
>>
>>
>> But it is 1960, it is almost spring again,
>>
>> And the tall rocks of Minneapolis
>>
>> Build me my own black twilight
>>
>> Of bamboo ropes and waters.
>>
>> Where is Yuan Chen, the friend you loved?
>>
>> Where is the sea, that once solved the whole loneliness
>>
>> Of the Midwest?Where is Minneapolis? I can see nothing
>>
>> But the great terrible oak tree darkening with winter.
>>
>> Did you find the city of isolated men beyond mountains?
>>
>> Or have you been holding the end of a frayed rope
>>
>> For a thousand years?
>>
>>
>> --James Wright
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================================
>>
>> David Graham
>>
>> grahamd at ripon.edu
>>
>>
>> Home Page:
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html
>>
>>
>> Poetry Library:
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html
>>
>> ==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I still love this one.
>>
>> A Note Left in Jimmy Leonard's Shack
>>
>>
>>
>> Near the dry river's water-mark we found
>> Your brother Minnegan,
>> Flopped like a fish against the muddy ground.
>> Beany, the kid whose yellow hair turns green,
>> Told me to find you, even if the rain,
>> And tell you he was drowned.
>>
>> I hid behind the chassis on the bank,
>> The wreck of someone's Ford:
>> I was afraid to come and wake you drunk:
>> You told me once the waking up was hard,
>> The daylight beating at you like a board.
>> Blood in my stomach sank.
>>
>> Beside, you told him never to go out
>> Along the river-side
>> Drinking and singing, clattering about.
>> You might have thrown a rock at me and cried
>> I was to blame, I let him fall in the road
>> And pitch down on his side.
>>
>> Well, I'll get hell enough when I get home
>> For coming up this far,
>> Leaving the note, and running as I came.
>> I'll go and tell my father where you are.
>> You'd better go find Minnegan before
>> Policemen hear and come.
>>
>> Beany went home, and I got sick and ran,
>> You old son of a bitch.
>> You better hurry down to Minnegan;
>> He's drunk or dying now, I don't know which,
>> Rolled in the roots and garbage like a fish,
>> The poor old man.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From barry.spacks  Thu Nov 15 13:41:50 2007
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:41:50 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: James Wright
In-Reply-To: <200711151615.lAFGFg5F000936@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200711151615.lAFGFg5F000936@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <FF7494B8-3A0D-402C-B92B-A707E1BEC86E@verizon.net>


On Nov 15, 2007, at 8:15 AM, David Graham wrote:

> Ultimately, I  think a lot of his poems have not aged well at all,  
> though I still
> have great fondness for many of them.

Same experience here, David. Perilous to re-visit many old enthusiasms.

My effort of a few years back to register my debt to Wright:

              THE CATCH
in memory of James Wright

His words make the heart shiver
as when dawn
invades the darkness, or dusk
the light.

He could sense, in a turtle
?  neck-stretched, hopeful ?
all the sadness
and hunger of life.

Say he was out there
seeing it
a long time coming,
his going...

his insouciance
beautiful to watch ?
easy glance over shoulder
moving toward the wall,

toward the miraculous
catch
in the pounded leather glove
in far left field.
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From rudenoon  Thu Nov 15 16:46:20 2007
From: rudenoon (Jim Gourley)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:46:20 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi
In-Reply-To: <ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>

Indeed, David, it's Bai Juyi in pinyin, the Romanized system that was
introduced a half-century ago. The earlier Romanized system was the
Wade-Giles which would have represented Bai Juyi as Pai Chui (umlaut over
the 'u'). For those interested in having a look at some interesting sites
that have rollover definitions of individual characters, which are helpful
in seeing how truly awful some of the available translations are, have a
look at http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/ a wonderful French site with the
Chinese Classics written in traditional characters with the rollover defs in
Enlgish. The translations are in both French and English. The translations
of the classic 300 Tang Poems in which the Bai Juyi appears are by Witter
Bynner. I am not a fan. 

 

Another site is http://www.chinese-poems.com/. The format is different. Each
poem is presented in quarters, upper left, the characters; upper right,
pinyin with tonal markings; the bottom left, the word-for-character
translation; and the lower right, the translations, which, for the most
part, are 'not good'.

 

Of the two, the French site is by far the most informative. And fun.

 

--Jim Gourley, a lurker

 

________

http://www.rudenoon.com <http://www.rudenoon.com/> 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudenoon

 

 

 

  _____  

From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:21 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright

 

You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think he read
about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem below quotes
the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi, I believe).

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From Sigauke  Thu Nov 15 16:52:05 2007
From: Sigauke (Sigauke, Emmanuel )
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:52:05 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi
In-Reply-To: <000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu>
	<000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>
Message-ID: <620DA07902572640894EC472FDA2C050873E07@CRC-EXCH01.crc.ad.losrios.edu>

View the evolving Munyori Poetry Journal at www.munyori.com
 

________________________________

From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Gourley
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:46 PM
To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views'
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi



Indeed, David, it's Bai Juyi in pinyin, the Romanized system that was
introduced a half-century ago. The earlier Romanized system was the
Wade-Giles which would have represented Bai Juyi as Pai Chui (umlaut
over the 'u'). For those interested in having a look at some interesting
sites that have rollover definitions of individual characters, which are
helpful in seeing how truly awful some of the available translations
are, have a look at http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/ a wonderful French
site with the Chinese Classics written in traditional characters with
the rollover defs in Enlgish. The translations are in both French and
English. The translations of the classic 300 Tang Poems in which the Bai
Juyi appears are by Witter Bynner. I am not a fan. 

 

Another site is http://www.chinese-poems.com/. The format is different.
Each poem is presented in quarters, upper left, the characters; upper
right, pinyin with tonal markings; the bottom left, the
word-for-character translation; and the lower right, the translations,
which, for the most part, are 'not good'.

 

Of the two, the French site is by far the most informative. And fun.

 

--Jim Gourley, a lurker

 

________

http://www.rudenoon.com <http://www.rudenoon.com/> 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudenoon

 

 

 

________________________________

From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:21 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James
Wright

 

You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think he
read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem below
quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi, I
believe).

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From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 16 10:00:28 2007
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:00:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi
References: <000f01c827a9$32e9d280$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><ED485AB2-E69B-4F68-BA9D-D77933202CCA@ripon.edu><000001c827d0$f96a8e50$124118ac@homedell9400>
	<620DA07902572640894EC472FDA2C050873E07@CRC-EXCH01.crc.ad.losrios.edu>
Message-ID: <005c01c82861$6def57c0$bcae3452@ANNY>

Here's hula hula Tad OldMole:
http://www.munyori.com/m_to_z_poets
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sigauke, Emmanuel 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:52 PM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi


  View the evolving Munyori Poetry Journal at www.munyori.com




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Gourley
  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:46 PM
  To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views'
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Bai Juyi


  Indeed, David, it's Bai Juyi in pinyin, the Romanized system that was introduced a half-century ago. The earlier Romanized system was the Wade-Giles which would have represented Bai Juyi as Pai Chui (umlaut over the 'u'). For those interested in having a look at some interesting sites that have rollover definitions of individual characters, which are helpful in seeing how truly awful some of the available translations are, have a look at http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/ a wonderful French site with the Chinese Classics written in traditional characters with the rollover defs in Enlgish. The translations are in both French and English. The translations of the classic 300 Tang Poems in which the Bai Juyi appears are by Witter Bynner. I am not a fan. 

   

  Another site is http://www.chinese-poems.com/. The format is different. Each poem is presented in quarters, upper left, the characters; upper right, pinyin with tonal markings; the bottom left, the word-for-character translation; and the lower right, the translations, which, for the most part, are 'not good'.

   

  Of the two, the French site is by far the most informative. And fun.

   

  --Jim Gourley, a lurker

   

  ________

  http://www.rudenoon.com

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/rudenoon

   

   

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
  Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:21 AM
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
  Subject: [New-Poetry] >From the Other World: Poems in Memory of James Wright

   

  You may well be right about Wright reading Pound's *Cathay*--I think he read about everything, and had most of it memorized.  But the poem below quotes the Arthur Waley translation of Po Chu-I (aka Bai Ju-Yi, I believe).



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini  Fri Nov 16 13:39:17 2007
From: anny.ballardini (anny.ballardini at tin.it)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:39:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: The Well-Shaped Phrase as Art
Message-ID: <200711161839.lAGIdH5E008164@wiz.cath.vt.edu>

This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it.

ARTS / ART & DESIGN | November 16, 2007
Art Review | Lawrence Weiner: The Well-Shaped Phrase as Art
By ROBERTA SMITH
Lawrence Weiner's mind-stretching 40-year retrospective at the Whitney Museum should be required viewing for anyone interested in today's art.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/arts/design/16wein.html?ex=1195880400&en=a9a39caebea5afa4&ei=5070&emc=eta1




----------------------------------------------------------

ABOUT THIS E-MAIL
This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service.  For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com.

NYTimes.com 620 Eighth Avenue New York, NY 10018

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
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From amyhappens  Sat Nov 17 09:08:10 2007
From: amyhappens (amy king)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Culture
In-Reply-To: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


 BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
 
 
 
 http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
 
 
 
       
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.  Make Yahoo! your homepage.
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From cervantes.james  Sat Nov 17 10:30:19 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:30:19 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Cultur
In-Reply-To: <669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>

So, how does one define "bourgeois art"?  Art created for public
consumption?  I'm genuinely curious about what folks consider the
hallmarks of "bourgeois art."

- Jim

On 11/17/07, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>
>
>
> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>



From halvard  Sat Nov 17 11:20:55 2007
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:20:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Cultur
In-Reply-To: <648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D39EF847-FF6E-4BE9-9198-B6165C7326E0@earthlink.net>

Hallmark says it all.

Hal

"Never eat anything larger than your head."
			--B. Kliban

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html


On Nov 17, 2007, at 9:30 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> So, how does one define "bourgeois art"?  Art created for public
> consumption?  I'm genuinely curious about what folks consider the
> hallmarks of "bourgeois art."
>
> - Jim
>
> On 11/17/07, amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> BlazeVOX and the Publishing Practices of the Post-Avant
>>
>>
>>
>> http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/2007/11/jlyn-chapman-blazevox-and-publishing.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From cervantes.james  Sat Nov 17 11:34:40 2007
From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:34:40 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] RECONFIGURATIONS: A Journal for Poetics & Poetry /
	Literature & Cultur
In-Reply-To: <D39EF847-FF6E-4BE9-9198-B6165C7326E0@earthlink.net>
References: <1833.95916.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<669107.54134.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<648208b60711170730w751a1b93q8e43b962f4401f68@mail.gmail.com>
	<D39EF847-FF6E-4BE9-9198-B6165C7326E0@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60711170834n1d5a1748l2e6d076a12d7b1aa@mail.gmail.com>

Phew.  Thanks, Hal.  I was about to scour my work for bourgeois
elements and excise what B.E.s I found. ;-)

Have a nice day.

- Jim

On 11/17/07, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hallmark says it all.
>
> Hal
>
> "Never eat anything larger than your head."
>                         --B. Kliban
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> http://home.earthlink.net/