From rsillima at yahoo.com Tue May 1 06:50:19 2007 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 03:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Permanent Avant Message-ID: <124586.55319.qm@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS The Permanent Avant: Tony Trehy and cognitive poetics The Permanent Avant: contexts for Spencer Selby (Twist of Address) Spring readings by Ron Silliman in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington & New York Linh Dinh???s Jam Alerts: letters home from Dystopia Cole Swensen and The Glass Age 3 focused anthologies ??? For the Time-Being: The Bootstrap Book of Poetic Journals, Third Rail: The Poetry of Rock and Roll, Poets on Painters A poem by Nancy Shaw (1962-2007) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From amparker at davidson.edu Tue May 1 12:50:07 2007 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:50:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ATC Book Review in danger Message-ID: Hi, folks. Please consider signing a petition (available through the link below) to support the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Book Review, which is currently threatened by "reorganization." Thanks. AMP http://www.PetitionOnline.com/atl2007/ Alan Michael Parker Davidson College www.amparker.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 1 14:18:03 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:18:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ATC Book Review in danger References: Message-ID: <003d01c78c1d$0f1dcd20$212ab750@ANNY> ATC Book Review in dangerI have the lucky number! Your signature number for this petition is 4334. ----- Original Message ----- From: Parker, Alan Michael To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] ATC Book Review in danger Hi, folks. Please consider signing a petition (available through the link below) to support the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Book Review, which is currently threatened by "reorganization." Thanks. AMP http://www.PetitionOnline.com/atl2007/ Alan Michael Parker Davidson College www.amparker.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 1 16:41:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 22:41:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Peter Ciccariello Message-ID: <00a701c78c31$0be2fd60$212ab750@ANNY> from Dan Waber: In the reward for interestingness's now monthly event*, the winner for April is: Peter Ciccariello for this piece: love flies low whisper** Congratulations to Peter, there's $100 worth of materials on their way to you from Jukka-Pekka Kervinen's cPress, xPress, etc.. Enjoy! Thanks to everyone who uploaded images to the Gallery this month. Keep uploading new images for your chance to win. *http://vispoets.com/index.php?showtopic=481 **http://vispoets.com/index.php?automodule=gallery&req=si&img=1219 Regards, Dan PS: if you have a press that publishes visual poetry and are able to send "$100 worth of publications, your choice, including postage" to future winners, please email me with your interest. --- Our members have posted a total of 1218 images and made 138 comments. Total Gallery Size: 215.02mb Total Image Views: 12641 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue May 1 18:36:57 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:36:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Talking About: Literary Magazines Message-ID: ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Poets & Writers, Inc." Subject: Talking About: Literary Magazines Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Size: 50579 URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue May 1 18:39:37 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:39:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Lorca, Granada, flamenco Message-ID: _http://theolivepress.es/content/view/475/42/_ (http://theolivepress.es/content/view/475/42/) Far from being exclusively a celebration of Granada?s poetic wealth, 15 artists from 11 countries are also included. The festival opened with evocative readings from the Romanian poet Ana Blandiana and the Israeli Shlomo Avayou and continues with events involving poets from around the world, including the previous years? winners of the Federico Garc?a Lorca International Poetry Prize. Of course the spirit of Federico will be present throughout the festival and the highlight on May 8 will take place in la Huerta de San Vicente, the summer residence of the Garc?a Lorca family. This event will involve readings from Argentine poet, Juan Gelman accompanied by the flamenco artist, Enrique Morente - such a fusion of flamenco and poetry is highly characteristic of poetic art of this region, yet is practiced and admired all over the Hispanic world. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed May 2 10:01:22 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Byrne and Equi [audio] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <924950.73496.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mairead Byrne and Elaine Equi read from their new books here: http://www.mipoesias.com ~~~ Recent and archived work here: http://feeds.feedburner.com/MipoesiasMagazineRevistaLiteraria ~~~ --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 2 15:09:11 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:09:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Poetry Slag Week In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C95B048036C9B4-A9C-6591@WEBMAIL-MC16.sysops.aol.com> A poet who reads his verse in public may have other nasty habits. --Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1978 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 3 07:37:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:37:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the library Message-ID: <001301c78d77$742b2e00$2da93852@ANNY> Our borgesian James Finnegan, our Pirandellian list owner (:-)) is on the first page of about.com poetry, with his (more his than our, thanks anyhow) Library: http://poetry.about.com/b/a/257402.htm?nl=1 starting from dictionaries and more to continue, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 3 12:39:54 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 12:39:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic journals list Message-ID: <8C95BB8D027F949-19D4-C9AA@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> A list of 'poetic journals'.... http://poetic-journals.blogspot.com/ Cendrars, Blaise: Prose of the Trans-Siberian & of the Little Jeanne de France. Creeley, Robert: A Day Book; Pieces; Hello: A Journal. Corbett, William: Collected Poems. Dahlen, Beverly: A Reading. Denby, Edwin: Mediterranean Cities. Doherty, Tyler: Bodhidharma Never Came to Hatboro. Duggan, Laurie: Compared to What. Duncan, Robert: The HD Book: Part II, A Day Book. Eigner, Larry: Readiness / Enough / Depends / On; Windows / Walls / Yard / Ways. Fischer, Norman: The Narrow Roads of Japan; Success. Gallagher, Ryan: Plum Smash and other Flashbulbs. Ginsberg, Allen: Planet News; The Fall of America. Giscombe, C.S.: Into and Out of Dislocation. Grenier, Robert: Series; A Day at the Beach. Hahn, Kimiko: The Narrow Road to the Interior. Kerouac, Jack: Book of Dreams; Some of the Dharma; Book of Sketches. Kyger, Joanne: Again; As Ever; Just Space; Patzcuaro; Japan and India Journals; Phenomenological. Lehman, David: The Daily Mirror. Mathews, Harry: 20 Lines a Day. Mayer, Bernadette: Studying Hunger; Midwinter?s Day. Oppen, George: Day Books. Padgett, Ron: The Albanian Journal. Ratcliffe, Stephen: Human/Nature; Real; Cloud/Ridge. Reznikoff, Charles: Collected Poems. Rothenberg, Michael: An Unhurried Vision, The Paris Journals. Roussel, Raymond: New Impressions of Africa. Schelling, Andrew: The Road to Ocosingo; Two Elk: A High Country Notebook. Schuyler, James: The Dairy of James Schuyler; Collected Poems. Schuyler, James & Darragh Park: Two Journals. Silliman, Ron: BART; Xing. Sloman, Joel: Cuban Journal. Snyder, Gary: Passage Through India; Earth House Hold; The Gary Snyder Reader. Snyder, Gary & Tom Killion: The High Sierra of California. Waldman, Anne: Journals & Dreams. Weiner, Hannah: Clairvoyant Journal; The Fast; Country Girl. Whalen, Philip: Every Day; The Goof Book; Scenes of Life at the Capital. Wieners, John: 707 Scott Street. Williams, William Carlos: Descent of Winter. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 3 13:06:21 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:06:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Poetry Slag Week In-Reply-To: <009e01c78a92$9be71720$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C95BBC81D978B8-19D4-CC40@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> http://www.slate.com/id/2116182/ In 2005, Pinsky-Slate had a 'Nat'l Against Poetry Month'. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 3 13:38:39 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:38:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nat'l Poetry Slag Week In-Reply-To: <8C95BBC81D978B8-19D4-CC40@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C95BC10564CBDA-19D4-CFFB@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> EB White on Poets... You read, perhaps, about the man who stole four tires from a car in Norfolk, Virginia, and left a purse and a diamond ring untouched on the front seat, with the note: "Roses are red, violets are blue, we like your jewels but your tires are new." The papers said it was a case of a thief who had a flair for poetry. This is palpable nonsense. It was case of a poet who was willing to attempt any desperate thing, even larceny, in order to place his poem. Clearly, here was a man who had written something and then had gone up and down in the world seeking the precise situation which would activate his poem. It must have meant long nights and days of wandering before he found a car with jewels lying loose in the front seat and four good tires on the wheels. Poets endure much for the sake of their art. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 3 14:51:26 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:51:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: RICEVO E INOLTRO (RISCHIO VIRUS) Message-ID: <007a01c78db4$0e15ae00$1d3e014f@ANNY> They say not to open mails with INVITATION in the subject, that it is a terrible virus and so and such. Don't know if this is true. Hopefully not. Roger, if you are out there, can you let us know? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- State attenti nei prossimi giorni! Non aprite nessun messaggio con un archivio chiamato" invitation", indipendentemente da chi e lo ha inviato. E' un virus che apre "una torcia olimpica" che "brucia" tutto il disco rigido del computer. Questo virus arriver? da una persona conosciuta che ha il vostro nome e la vostra lista di indirizzi, per questo ? necessario che inviate questo messaggio a tutti i vostri contatti. E' meglio ricevere 25 volte questo messaggio che ricevere il virus e aprirlo. Se ricevete il messaggio chiamato "INVITATION" non aprite e spegnete immediatamente il computer. E' il peggior virus annunciato dalla CNN, ? classificato dalla Microsoft come il pi? distruttivo che sia mai esistito. INVIATE QUESTO MESSAGGIO A TUTTI QUELLI CHE CONOSCETE. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 3 14:54:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:54:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Juliana Gray chosen by Ted Kooser Message-ID: <008501c78db4$801b4910$1d3e014f@ANNY> Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit www.americanlifeinpoetry.org. ****************************** American Life in Poetry: Column 110 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 Poem by Juliana Gray. Summer Downpour on Campus When clouds turn heavy, rich and mottled as an oyster bed, when the temperature drops so fast that fog conjures itself inside the cars, as if the parking lots were filled with row upon row of lovers, when my umbrella veils my face and threatens to reverse itself at every gust of wind, and rain lashes my legs and the hem of my skirt, but I am walking to meet a man who'll buy me coffee and kiss my fingers-- what can be more beautiful, then, than these boys sprinting through the storm, laughing, shouldering the rain aside, running to their dorms, perhaps to class, carrying, like torches, their useless shoes? Reprinted from "The Louisville Review," (No. 59, Spring 2006) by permission of the author. Copyright (c) 2006 by Juliana Gray, whose most recent book of poetry is "The Man Under My Skin," River City Publishing, 2005. This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. This column does not accept unsolicited poetry. ****************************** Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 3 18:36:35 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 18:36:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Panel on poetic excess Message-ID: <8C95BEAA454CC5A-50C-E51B@FWM-M40.sysops.aol.com> http://www.actionyes.org/ A Panel On EXCESS Poetic Nonaction by Anne Boyer Notes On Women & the Grotesque by Lara Glenum Who's Scared of Dada? The Aesthetics of Homelessness by Johannes G?ransson Excessivism by K. Silem Mohammad Writing the Disaster by Jed Rasula ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 4 13:12:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:12:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Tardos performs Berberian Message-ID: <025401c78e6f$6867dde0$dfde3052@ANNY> Anne Tardos will perform Cathy Berberian's "Stripsodie" on Friday, May 11, 2007 at 8 pm at Music Under Construction 10 East 18th Street, 3rd Floor (between 5th Ave and Broadway) 212-924-7882 $15/10 In the Program Cathy Berberian: Stripsodie (1966) John Cage: Five (1988) Stephen Dickman: String Quartet (1978-2005) Arnold Schoenberg: String Quartet #2, Opus 10 (1908) Roger Tr?fousse: Music for Grete (2002-2006) Theresa Salomon and Erico Sato, violins Jessica Troy, viola David Eggar, cello Susanna Eyton-Jones, soprano Anne Tardos, voice ____________________ Anne Tardos 42 N. Moore St. New York, NY 10013 www.annetardos.com +1 212-226-3346 (landline) +1 917-660-5552 (mobile) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmetres at jcu.edu Fri May 4 13:15:13 2007 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Behind the Lines: War Resistance Poetry on the American Homefront since 1941 Message-ID: <20070504131513.AFG16708@mirapoint.jcu.edu> I want to let people know that my book, *Behind the Lines: War Resistance Poetry on the American Homefront since 1941* is now out from University of Iowa Press (http://www.uiowa.edu/uiowapress/2007-metres.htm) Here's the jacket copy: Whether Thersites in Homer?s Iliad, Wilfred Owen in "Dulce et Decorum Est," or Allen Ginsberg in "Wichita Vortex Sutra," poets have long given solitary voice against the brutality of war. The hasty cancellation of the 2003 White House symposium "Poetry and the American Voice" in the face of protests by Sam Hamill and other invited guests against the coming "shock and awe" campaign in Iraq reminded us that poetry and poets still have the power to challenge the powerful. Behind the Lines investigates American war resistance poetry from the Second World War through the Iraq wars. Rather than simply chronicling the genre, Philip Metres argues that this poetry gets to the heart of who is authorized to speak about war and how it can be represented. As such, he explores a largely neglected area of scholarship: the poet?s relationship to dissenting political movements and the nation. In his elegant study, Metres examines the ways in which war resistance is registered not only in terms of its content but also at the level of the lyric. He proposes that protest poetry constitutes a subgenre that?by virtue of its preoccupation with politics, history, and trauma?probes the limits of American lyric poetry. Thus, war resistance poetry?and the role of what Shelley calls unacknowledged legislators?is a crucial, though largely unexamined, body of writing that stands at the center of dissident political movements. Philip Metres is an assistant professor in the Department of English at John Carroll University. He holds a BA in English and peace studies from Holy Cross and a PhD in English and an MFA in poetry from Indiana University. Author of two chapbooks?Instants and Primer for Non-Native Speakers?and two books of poetry in translation, he has received a National Endowment for the Arts fellowship in creative writing and translation. to purchase the book: http://www.uiowa.edu/uiowapress/2007-metres.htm Here's an excerpt of the conclusion... http://www.bigbridge.org/fictpmetres.htm "Poetry and the Peace Movement: Useable Pasts, Multiple Futures" excerpted from Behind the Lines: War Resistance Poetry on the American Homefront Since 1941: Forthcoming from University of Iowa Press, 2007 In the wake of the Vietnam War, citizens and poets alike tend to look with a jaundiced eye at those wild-eyed poets who descend from Parnassus to declaim about the politics of the day, to shout down the latest war, or to address the President?as if he had a Minister of Poetry. Who among us can't mobilize the troop of quotes regarding the dangers of mixing poetry and politics?: "We make out of the quarrel with others, rhetoric, but out of the quarrel with ourselves, poetry" (Yeats); "poetry makes nothing happen" (Auden); "no lyric has ever stopped a tank" (Heaney), etc. Vietnam War-era poetry, in particular, has been dismissed by critics as too easily categorized (Robert B. Shaw's "The Poetry of Protest"), ahistorical (Cary Nelson's Our Last First Poets), politically unviable (Paul Breslin's The Psycho-Political Muse), or not self-critical enough (Robert von Hallberg's American Poetry and Culture, 1945-1980). Undoubtedly, some Vietnam-era anti-war poetry was self-righteous, rhetorically clumsy, and tonally arrogant. But these critiques miss the intricate dance that American war resistance poets have executed in the 20th century, negotiating between the claims of their art and the claims of their conscience, and between the two communities they court?the nation and the peace movement. (Further, these critiques?combined with the politics of mainstream poetry today?invite poets to a kind of post-avant, post-politics quietism that allows them to feel as if everything they write is political?thus evacuating any meaning to the term "politics.") Combined with the testimony and vision of soldier and veteran poets, the civilian war resister poets offer a critical and vital resource?both for the peace movement and for the nation. Though the role of soldier poetry occupies a critical place in the war resistance literary tradition, in Behind the Lines: War Resistance Poetry on the American Homefront Since 1941 (University of Iowa Press, 2007), I am particularly interested in retreating from the scene of battle, "behind the lines," back to what has been termed the homefront. Civilian poets have played a unique role in shaping and representing war resistance and the contemporary American peace movement during a period of American imperial power. No other literary genre has been as conducive to the performative, immediate, and often homespun symbolic actions of the peace movement. War resistance activists have long relied on poetry, and its popular counterpart, song, to build a shared culture?relaying the narratives that name the movement and its longings. The tradition of American war resistance poetry, with its beginnings in the Great War, crystallized in the mid-20th century, with the rise of conscientious objector poets during the Second World War (Robert Lowell, William Stafford, and William Everson, in particular); the proliferation of resistance poetry of the Vietnam War (Allen Ginsberg, Denise Levertov, Adrienne Rich, Daniel Berrigan, John Balaban, among others); the postmodern fragmentation of the Persian Gulf War (William Heyen, June Jordan, and Barrett Watten); and a rebirth during the Iraq War, with the Poets Against the War phenomenon and other mass poetry movements against war. Since World War I, the American peace movement has been an important, even essential aspect of a healthy democratic society. The peace movement acts as a necessary brake to the enthusiastic acceleration toward the next "necessary war," though it seems destined for permanent oppositional status. Gwyn Prins has likened the peace movement to "a leaping, diving whale.? When the ?whale' disappears in a dive, those on the right believe the movement no longer exists. Supporters of the movement, on the other hand, see the leaping whale and claim it can fly" (qtd. in Everts 27). Whether critics might wish that it were dead or supporters might wish that it could fly, the success of the peace movement ought not be measured by whether or not it stopped a war; rather, its impact, however decentralized or marginal, must be registered in the constancy of its witness to the evils of warfare, and its resistance to the smooth functioning of an imperial, militaristic culture of war. That constancy requires not only institutional support (both academic and activist), but also the existence of what Evert calls "prophetic minorities" (27-28)?those who are totally committed to bringing about peace and nonviolent social change. Peace movement actions have ranged from 1) counternarration (educating, lectures, readings, flyering, petitions, letters, protests, etc.), to 2) physical and financial support for resisting war, boycotts, strikes, claiming C.O. status or supporting C.O.s, etc.; and even to 3) extreme or illegal acts of resistance, from sit-ins to tax resistance to other more violent acts of resistance. Gene Sharp's crucial Politics of Nonviolent Action lists 198 nonviolent tactics that resisters have employed to resist illegitimate power and effect social change, many of which have been used by war resister poets in the 20th century. American war resister poets have become, by virtue of their struggle to represent and enact war resistance, models for resistance?both to war and to the heady fantasies of revolutionary resistance. In their Yeatsian self-questioning, in their urge to synchronize the beats of their language with the rhythms of peace movements, in their attempts to image and imagine the distant imperial wars, in their struggle for information and for understanding the syntax of war, in their worried or outraged utterances, in their desire to address their fellow citizens, these poets embody through words and deeds?through words as deeds, and deeds as words?a moral witness against the depredations of war. Even if the lyric poem may render visible the political unconscious of imperial privilege, the best lyric war resistance poems (Robert Lowell's "Memories of West Street and Lepke," William Everson's Chronicle of Division, Adrienne Rich's "At Atlas of the Difficult World," etc.) have always been maps that render empire visible and consciously draw tight the strands that connect American subjectivities to the rest of the world. Even if the audience-based rhetorical poetries of social movements such as the 1930s radical proletarian poetries or the Black Arts poetries of the 1960s may occasionally disappoint in their binaristic and propaganda-laden invectives, the best performance poems actively hail, respond to and co-create a community of resisters (June Jordan's "The Bombing of Baghdad," Amiri Baraka's "Somebody Blew Up America," etc.). Even if experimental poetries can alienate in their disjunctive style, the best experimental poems court their reader in ways that can help create critical distance from the rhetoric tactics that bully citizens into distrusting their own deeply-held knowledge about the ugliness of war (Barrett Watten's Bad History, Bob Perelman's "Against Shock and Awe," etc.). Poetry has never been simply a handmaiden to the peace movement, nor is war resistance simply an occasion for poetry; but poetry offers to the peace movement a relationship to language that questions its own assumptions and extends its own possibilities, imagining alternate futures and new narratives beyond the religious, political and philosophical foundations that undergird it. Take, if you will, Michael Magee's "Political Song, Confused Voicing," written in the wake of September 11th, 2001, and a vital counterpoint to Amiri Baraka's "Somebody Blew Up America." Threading the traditions of political lyric, African-American performance poetry, and experimental language play into a meditation on the politics of grievance, the poem opens with a blisteringly absurdist diatribe: you tongued my battleship! you bonged my tattle-tale! you maimed my mamby-pamby Wagnered my Nietzsche and gotcha'd my sweatshop there ain't room in heaven for us (51) If the language is oddball, the overall structure is quite simple: you [blanked] me! This structure suggests a feeling of grievance or woundedness, but the poet machineguns so many allusions at us?from commercials to board games to political acronyms to philosophy?that we are suspended in its comic-furious catalogue. The first line, "you tongued my battleship" references both the commercial for the game "Battleship"?in which a boy exclaims, "you sunk my battleship!"?and the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole off the coast of Yemen in 2001, summoning the strangeness of American subjectivity, where history is crosscut with advertising, and war itself is a commodity to be sold. But the poem gains gravitas with its blues refrain, and confuses any simplistic reading of who is the "us" and who is the "them." Is the "us" of the refrain, who have no room in heaven, the terrorists, or the Americans who appear to be speaking the main stanzas? The poem ends: you prayed on my carpet you bombed my parade and there ain't room in heaven no there ain't room in heaven no there ain't room in heaven for us (52) The voices get confused in ways that suggest that the "us" is the wider human race, since "you prayed on my carpet" could be the typical complaint of bin Laden about American military presence in Saudi Arabia, and "you bombed my parade" could refer either to the U.S. economic parade ending or the U.S. bombings of wedding parties in Afghanistan or Iraq. The grievances get melded together in ways that suggest that competing grievances become a vicious circle, a self-perpetuating psychology which collapses the distance between us and the terrorists. Magee thus uses and feels the strength of grievance even as it shows a deep distrust of that energy, and an awareness of the violence of acting out of grievance. Though the peace movement recognizes the fatality of a politics based principally on grievance, it has occasionally succumbed to its own rhetorics of blame?blaming the government system or blaming the peace movement. And poets have, at times, contributed to both polarities of blame. Magee's poem dramatizes?and thus inoculates us from?demonization itself, which can only end with everyone sharing hell together. Multiple Futures The debate between a poetry that favors the aesthetic, the formal, the individual, and a poetry that favors the political, the rhetorical, and the cultural-political movement suggests the ongoing and necessarily provisional rapprochement between artistic production and the peace movement. This debate manifests itself differently at different moments. During the Second World War, William Everson and the Fine Arts community advocated for a pacifist art that would not succumb to propaganda, and opposed the War Resisters League call for an issue-oriented anthology of protest poetry. During the Vietnam War, Robert Duncan and Denise Levertov engaged in a parallel negotiation between poetry and its relation to war resistance (also visible in the dichotomies between electric Dylan and acoustic Dylan, between New Left and Old Left, etc.). During the Persian Gulf War, Jean Baudrillard and Christopher Norris, Barrett Watten and Amiri Baraka articulated different, even opposing critical and poetic strategies to resist war. During our ongoing Iraq War, Kent Johnson upbraided Charles Bernstein and his avant-garde privileging of the radicalism of form, thus demonstrating the persistence of these debates. These disagreements represent not an unbridgeable impasse between politics and poetry, but an ongoing negotiation over how poetry's particular power might best bear witness to and serve a culture of war resistance. The latest flap about Kent Johnson's Lyric Poetry After Auschwitz?which some poets and critics saw as self-promoting, capitalizing on Iraqi suffering, etc.?suggests that the questions about resistance poetry will not be resolved, but rather lived through by poetic and activist means. The ongoing work of national organizations like Poets Against the War and localized nodes in networks of publication (O Books, Curbstone, Interlink, Dischord, etc.) suggests that resistance work does not require unanimity. Certainly, poetry thrives most particularly in the local. As W.D. Ehrhart mused: What was the point of my reading antiwar poetry to the members of the Brandywine Peace Community? These are folks who chain themselves to fences and hammer on missile warheads. But what they hear in my poems confirms them in their beliefs (which are not easy to hold and maintain in this culture?and renews their spirit and commitment; it gives them a sense of connectedness, of not being entirely along. That's worth doing, even if it is on such a small scale (there were maybe 25 people there that night). (Interview with W.D. Ehrhart) War resistance poems ask for our redeployment in multiple sites, returning poetry to where it thrives?"behind the lines," i.e. beyond the page and into the public square?as graffiti, in pamphlets, on demonstration placards, as performances, in political meetings and poetry readings, as songs, and in the classroom. In the hands of war resistance poets, language is a symbolic action, and symbolic action becomes a language with poetic implications. In recovering these poems, we can pose further questions not only about the limits of the individualized poem, but also about the individualized poet, and propose ways that poets and activists might work to find ways of making poetry "active" again, and making activism a labor of making as much as a labor of protest and unmasking. Thus, the survival of war resistance poetry depends not just on the aesthetic value of the poems, but also on what these poems offer as cultural productions. War resistance poets attempt to address both the converted and unconverted, to praise the committed and also to hail the unconverted, inviting them to partake in this collective subjectivity of resistance. To those of us who consider poetry a medium and a tradition of the imagination of conscience, who see in it a useable past and a vital resource for social change, our work might begin with liberating what has already been confined to the library and recirculate it in the social networks where poetry can both inspire and interrogate war resistance and peace activism. Such a call requires us to articulate our own history, and our own tradition, to recover that which we did not know was part of us?and, finding it lacking, to create our own; in some sense, that may require rejecting the tradition of poems and poetry that I have laid forth in this book?since I recall, as a college student demonstrating against what would become the Persian Gulf War, the desire to reject the hippie "kumbaya" culture of Vietnam-era peace activism in favor of Fugazi's punk anthem "KYEO" (Keep Your Eyes Open). It also asks of us to enter into already-existing local nodes and social networks of war resistance and to participate as citizen-poets in the mundane acts of community-building such as weekly potlucks, flyering, signmaking, and petitioning. Poets have a unique role to play in the peace movement because we can bring our obsessive and nuanced attention to language, its rhetorical possibilities and its formal limits. As we extend our poetics into the peace movement, we will be writing the potential archive, writing the future?not just of war resistance poetry, but also of our collective histories. In the tradition of the visionary anthologies of Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris, where poetry is not gathered and contained, but rather set loose in a larger structure toward symbolic action, our poems and acts will have the occasion to articulate themselves into possible futures. In Rothenberg's words: the anthology as a kind of long poem?.In working as a poet, finding a space for different voices is probably at the center of what I think I'm doing in poetry. So translations are an arena of voicings, anthologies are an arena of voicings, found poetry and collage are an arena of voicings (Rothenberg "Chanting" 53). Every demonstration?in the broadest sense of the term?is in some sense also an arena of voicings, and the work of war resistance poets is to allow that arena to reverberate beyond the space/time event, to echo in the eyes and ears of participants and passersby alike. Poets can extend mimeograph revolution of the 20th century (and the ongoing independence of small literary presses, who have the ability to control the means of producing language-events) to electronic and other new media?including college radio, Internet sites, weblogs, downloadable podcasts, You Tube, etc.?thus reframing Billy Bragg's ironic "Revolution is just a tee shirt away!" into a potentially empowering act of self-commodification. Whole websites devoted to linking poetry and political action, such as Brian Kim Stefans' 2003 project, "Circulars: Poets, Artists, and Critics Respond to U.S. Global Policy," suggest the ways in which this work is already engaged, if not always sustained. Other activists have taken to "highway blogging"?writing messages on bedsheets and posting them over highway overpasses where thousands of commuters pass them. Further, poets and poetry can play a role in the use of digital filmography to document acts of repression and resistance. The recent Investigation of a Flame (2001) and its attendant website which revisits the Catonsville Nine action (in which 9 members of the Catholic Left, including poet Daniel Berrigan, raided a draft office and burned draft files with homemade napalm in 1968) includes original footage and other documentary materials for access to the public, thus enabling a new generation insight into the radical nonviolent resistance during the Vietnam War. As we articulate poetry to the poetics of war resistance, we will keep it vital by finding and writing the broadest possible range of voicings: not only lyric poems, not only language-based poems, but poems as scripts for symbolic actions; poems that can be marched to, poems that are parodies of well-known songs or poems that others could easily perform, poems that enable something beyond comprehension, but collective and bodily participation; not just solemn or angry poems, but poems that are funny; not just Apollonian poems of reason, but Dionysian poems that offend public morals and political correctness; in short, poems that use every means necessary?the lyric tradition's self-dialectic, the African-American performance tradition's use of chant and audience dialectic, the experimental tradition's explosive play with language. In light of the Iraq War, such a range of voicings could include American war resistance poems such as the meditative and rationalist "Against Shock and Awe" by Bob Perelman, next to the stately jeremiad "Dithyramb and Lamentation" by David Wojahn, next to the Flarf-constructed "Chicks Dig War" by Drew Gardner, next to a fragment of the visionary multivocal This Connection of Everyone with Lungs by Juliana Spahr, next to the diatribe "Somebody Blew Up America" by Amiri Baraka, next to fractured collage of "I Note in a Notebook" by Lawrence Joseph, next to first-person witness "Here, Bullet" by Iraq War veteran Brian Turner. Following Mark LeVine's notion of culture-jamming and Edward Said's notion of contrapuntal reading, such U.S. war resistance poems could be read alongside the poetry of "enemy" nations; from the classic to the folk to the contemporary traditions, the enemy's poetic culture becomes a possible site of resistance, insofar as it demonstrates the humanity of the other. John Balaban's translations of Vietnamese folk poetry during the Vietnam War, Robert Auletta's retranslation of The Persians during the Persian Gulf War; during the Iraq War, Stephen Mitchell's version of Gilagamesh, the anthology Iraqi Poetry Today, and Dunya Mikhail's The War Works Hard?all create other ways for Americans to listen to and imagine the other. Nor ought the arena of global voicings be limited to poetry, since now we have voices audible from the sites of conflict, such as Salaam Pax's revolutionary day-by-day representation of a civilian voice on the Iraqi "front," or Riverbend's subsequent notes under occupation. Poets bringing their keen attention to language ought to try not only poems?and thus repeat the embarrassment of the poet-activist in the film I Heart Huckabees (2004), who dragged his poems to every demonstration?but also placard-writing, media press-releases, writing government officials, and songwriting. In terms of songwriting, perhaps only Neil Young?who penned the famous post-Kent State-shooting dirge "Ohio"?could so effectively suture the distance between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War with his recent Living With War (2006). Yet on almost every song this album?gesturing toward the collectivity for whom he wishes to speak?Young's voice is accompanied by a chorus of 100 singers. And now there are dozens of singer-songwriters like protest singer David Rovics, who offers all his music for download free; nearly 500,000 downloadings of his songs had occurred as of this writing. Songs can be the glue of movements, insofar as they crystallize in a pithy phrase and tune some undeniably shared utterance. As we contribute to the poetics of the peace movement, we must actively become archivists of the movement itself. We need to save everything we write and make, documenting how the texts came into being, when and how they were employed, and how they might be used in the future. Since many books have almost no information about the ephemeral conditions of a poem's making, they create the impression that war resistance poetry comes out of an ahistorical pacifism that lacks pragmatism and melts at the first sign of manufactured imminent threats. If possible, we need to create website archives so that others may benefit from and use our work, bequeath our archive to libraries like the Swarthmore College Peace Collection to allow future scholars access into the dynamic poetics of resistance. In this making, in this composing, in this movement-building, we know that our actions will not necessarily lead to immediate change, and may never end war; yet, we ought to remember that when we resist war, we are participating in something that many people throughout history have struggled for, even given their lives for. Since war will not soon be sloughed off as a vestigial organ or an archaism, war resistance will survive and persist?even thrive?because poets continue to articulate, question, motivate and sustain it?in the symbolic action of their utterances and in the prose of their daily involvement making resistance. A visionary aspect of the peace movement, war resistance poems valorize the struggle inherent in resistance and argue against the mythologies of pro-war discourse so that, when the next wars come, people will resist the manufacture of public consent. As Denise Levertov writes, "if we restructured the sentence our lives are making," we might find "an energy field more intense than war" where "each act of living [is]/one of its words, each word/a vibration of light...." (MP 58). This is a fight worth writing for, and the lines made and broken are part of "millions of intricate moves," whose sentence might end with the word peace. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sources and Resources Aeschylus. The Persians: A Modern Version by Robert Auletta. Los Angeles: Sun & Moon, 1993. Baraka, Amiri. "Somebody Blew Up America." Bly, Robert, and David Ray, eds. A Poetry Reading Against the Vietnam War. Madison, MN: American Writers Against the Vietnam War; distributed by the Sixties Press, 1966. "Circulars: Poets, Artists, and Critics Respond to U.S. Global Policy." Brian Kim Stefans. Ehrhart, W.D. Interview with author. July 10, 2005. Everson, William. The Residual Years: Poems 1934-1948. Santa Rosa, CA: Black Sparrow, 1997. Everts, Philip P. "Where the Peace Movement Goes When it Disappears." The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. November 1989. 26-30. Gardner, Drew. "Chicks Dig War." July 7, 2006. Heaney, Seamus. The Government of the Tongue: Selected Prose 1978-1987. New York: Farrar, Straus, 1990. Heyen, William. Ribbons: The Gulf War. St. Louis: Time Being Books, 1991. I Heart Huckabees. Dir. David O. Russell. 2004. Investigation of a Flame. Dir. Lynne Sachs. 2001. Jordan, June. Directed by Desire: The Collected Poems of June Jordan. Port Townsend, WA: Copper Canyon, 2005. Joseph, Lawrence. Into It. New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2005. Levertov, Denise. Making Peace. Ed. with Introduction by Peggy Rosenthal. New York: New Directions, 2006. LeVine, Mark. Why They Don't Hate Us: Lifting the Veil on the Axis of Evil. Oxford: OneWorld, 2005. Lowell, Robert. Collected Poems. New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2003. Magee, Mike. MS. New York: Spuyten Duyvil, 2003. Mikhail, Dunya. The War Works Hard. New York: New Directions, 2005. Mitchell, Stephen. Gilgamesh: A New English Version. New York: Free Press, 2004. Perelman, Bob. "Against Shock and Awe." Online version. Poets Against the War. Rich, Adrienne. An Atlas of the Difficult World: Poems 1988-1991. New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1991. Rothenberg, Jerome. "Chanting in the House of Nabokov: An Interview with Jerome (and Diane) Rothenberg" by Philip Metres. Combo 13 (Winter/Spring 2004): 47-56. Said, Edward. Culture and Imperialism. New York: Vintage, 1993. Sharp, Gene. The Politics of Nonviolent Action. 3 vols. Boston: Porter Sargent, 1973. Simawe, Saadi, Daniel Weissbort, and Norma Rinsler, eds. Iraqi Poetry Today. London: King's College, 2003. Spahr, Juliana. This Connection Of Everyone With Lungs. Berkeley, CA: U of California P, 2005. Turner, Brian. Here, Bullet. Farmington, ME: Alice James Books, 2005. Watten, Barrett. Bad History. Berkeley, CA: Atelos, 1998. Wojahn, David. Interrogation Palace: New and Selected Poems 1982-2004. Pittsburgh: U Pittsburgh P, 2006. Yeats, William Butler. "Per Amica Silentia Lunae" (1917). Mythologies. 1959. NY: Touchstone, 1998. Young, Neil. Living With War. Reprise. 2006. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 4 15:11:38 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 15:11:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? Message-ID: <463B856A.2060402@opus40.org> From my brother: Since you seem to be into rhetoric, maybe you can answer something I've asked many, including speech instructors and rhetoricians, and never gotten an answer to. Is there a term for the technique or tendency to address the implicit question or consideration in your listener's mind, in the course of making a statement? This quality is very clear to me when it's present or not present, and I'm wondering whether there's a term for it. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 4 15:33:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 21:33:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? References: <463B856A.2060402@opus40.org> Message-ID: <028301c78e83$11220290$dfde3052@ANNY> The only term I can come up with is intuition. I know he is looking for something starting with pre- From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:11 PM > From my brother: > > Since you seem to be into rhetoric, maybe you can answer something I've > asked many, including speech instructors and rhetoricians, and never > gotten an answer to. Is there a term for the technique or tendency to > address the implicit question or consideration in your listener's mind, in > the course of making a statement? This quality is very clear to me when > it's present or not present, and I'm wondering whether there's a term for > it. > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Fri May 4 15:42:10 2007 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:42:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? In-Reply-To: <028301c78e83$11220290$dfde3052@ANNY> References: <463B856A.2060402@opus40.org> <028301c78e83$11220290$dfde3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <010301c78e84$4e9bf760$ebd3e620$@edu> Are you thinking of prescience, Anny? It's more or less a synonym for foresight, knowing things before they happen. Bill Morgan The only term I can come up with is intuition. I know he is looking for something starting with pre- From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:11 PM > From my brother: > > Since you seem to be into rhetoric, maybe you can answer something I've > asked many, including speech instructors and rhetoricians, and never > gotten an answer to. Is there a term for the technique or tendency to > address the implicit question or consideration in your listener's mind, in > the course of making a statement? This quality is very clear to me when > it's present or not present, and I'm wondering whether there's a term for > it. > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Fri May 4 15:55:38 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:55:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? In-Reply-To: <463B856A.2060402@opus40.org> References: <463B856A.2060402@opus40.org> Message-ID: <0CFFE944-64FA-4B48-A900-BC40922580E8@earthlink.net> preemptive strike Hal "Those who cast the ballots decide nothing. Those who count the ballots decide everything." --Joseph Stalin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 4, 2007, at 2:11 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > From my brother: > > Since you seem to be into rhetoric, maybe you can answer something > I've asked many, including speech instructors and rhetoricians, and > never gotten an answer to. Is there a term for the technique or > tendency to address the implicit question or consideration in your > listener's mind, in the course of making a statement? This quality > is very clear to me when it's present or not present, and I'm > wondering whether there's a term for it. > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri May 4 16:38:27 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:38:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:11:56 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > From my brother: > > Since you seem to be into rhetoric, maybe you can answer something I've > asked many, including speech instructors and rhetoricians, and never > gotten an answer to. Is there a term for the technique or tendency to > address the implicit question or consideration in your listener's mind, > in the course of making a statement? This quality is very clear to me > when it's present or not present, and I'm wondering whether there's a > term for it. > In a classical oration this would be the refutatio, the part that addresses possible objections to what the speaker has argued for earlier. It's the kind of thing a salesman might use: "Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking you can't afford this product . Well, let me show you . . . ." The parts of a classical oration are: Exordium Introduction Narratio A history of the question/problem being addressed Confimatio The speaker's argument Refutatio As above Peroratio Conclusion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 4 16:50:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 22:50:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? References: Message-ID: <02ba01c78e8d$df00c110$dfde3052@ANNY> I knew that Sam knew it... funny that they do not mention refutatio here: http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm http://www.americanrhetoric.com/rhetoricaldevicesinsound.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:11:56 PM Central Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: From my brother: Since you seem to be into rhetoric, maybe you can answer something I've asked many, including speech instructors and rhetoricians, and never gotten an answer to. Is there a term for the technique or tendency to address the implicit question or consideration in your listener's mind, in the course of making a statement? This quality is very clear to me when it's present or not present, and I'm wondering whether there's a term for it. In a classical oration this would be the refutatio, the part that addresses possible objections to what the speaker has argued for earlier. It's the kind of thing a salesman might use: "Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking you can't afford this product . Well, let me show you . . . ." The parts of a classical oration are: Exordium Introduction Narratio A history of the question/problem being addressed Confimatio The speaker's argument Refutatio As above Peroratio Conclusion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri May 4 17:18:21 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:18:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/4/2007 3:51:08 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > funny that they do not mention refutatio here: > > http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm > http://www.americanrhetoric.com/rhetoricaldevicesinsound.htm > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech > It's not a figure (scheme or trope) but part of the speech/discourse. In a debate, of course, the objections would be voiced by the other side and answered, but in a discourse the unvoiced objections are addressed. There is, as far as I know, no figure for this, for figures have to do with matters like syntax, repetition, omission, and various forms of metaphor. A rhetorical question comes closest: "Why am I wasting your time when it's clear that you don't want to buy Product X? Well, I'll tell you . . . ." Some of these seem to fit the bill, or various bills: http://rhetoric.byu.edu/Figures/Groupings/of%20Refutation.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri May 4 17:20:27 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:20:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/4/2007 3:51:08 PM Central Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > funny that they do not mention refutatio here: > > http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm > http://www.americanrhetoric.com/rhetoricaldevicesinsound.htm > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech > This probably comes closest to what he's looking for: http://rhetoric.byu.edu/Figures/P/procatalepsis.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 4 20:38:41 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 20:38:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463BD211.8020606@opus40.org> Yeah, I was counting on Sam. Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/4/2007 3:51:08 PM Central Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: >> funny that they do not mention refutatio here: >> >> http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm >> http://www.americanrhetoric.com/rhetoricaldevicesinsound.htm >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech > > It's not a figure (scheme or trope) but part of the speech/discourse. > In a debate, of course, the objections would be voiced by the other > side and answered, but in a discourse the /unvoiced/ objections are > addressed. > > There is, as far as I know, no figure for this, for figures have to do > with matters like syntax, repetition, omission, and various forms of > metaphor. A rhetorical question comes closest: "Why am I wasting > your time when it's clear that you don't want to buy Product X? Well, > I'll tell you . . . ." > > Some of these seem to fit the bill, or various bills: > > http://rhetoric.byu.edu/Figures/Groupings/of%20Refutation.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 4 20:40:48 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 20:40:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anyone know this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463BD290.8080704@opus40.org> Odd that it's all about refutation. What about something like..."You don't even have to say it...of course I'll marry you." Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/4/2007 3:51:08 PM Central Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: >> funny that they do not mention refutatio here: >> >> http://humanities.byu.edu/rhetoric/silva.htm >> http://www.americanrhetoric.com/rhetoricaldevicesinsound.htm >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech > > This probably comes closest to what he's looking for: > > http://rhetoric.byu.edu/Figures/P/procatalepsis.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri May 4 21:32:22 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 18:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Congratulations to Lorna Dee Cervantes! In-Reply-To: <463BD211.8020606@opus40.org> Message-ID: <736979.27659.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Lorna Dee Cervantes' poem, "Shelling the Pecans", has just won a Pushcart Prize! First published in MiPOesias' print companion, OCHO (http://www.lulu.com/mipo), the poem can now be viewed at MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ Cheers! --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 5 12:25:09 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 12:25:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag Week) Message-ID: The other night I drove down to Meriden CT where Lewis Turco gave a reading. It was a small crowd in Meriden Public library but there were a few of his old friends from Meriden where he grew up. That was nice to see. He read a number of pieces that had to do with the town and/or townfolk. He had just published a first volume of a Collected Poems, which he said contained his unrhymed and free verse poetry. He was going to have second volume released shortly containing the formal poetry. (I thought that was a strange way to divide the body of one's work.) He read this poem and said it was almost verbatim from a letter he received. Finnegan -- ERATOPHOBIA: The Fear of Poetry --for Linda Sardella Boucher "Dear Cousin," she wrote, "Thanks for the books of poems. I must admit that I haven't opened them. It's a source of pride to me to have a poet in the family, but I'm afraid I won't understand "the poems and I'd feel stupid. I fear I haven't opened them. I must admit I fear what lies in wait between the covers: words that writhe, that hiss at me off the page, "words that wriggle and won't hold still to let me understand them. Weird, huh? I'll work at it. I'll work to get beneath the covers, to open one in bed beneath the covers - they lie in wait "beside me on the nightstand. I'll reach out one night and grab one, pull it underneath the covers of my bed and, with a flashlight, open it and see the poems writhing, hissing at me on the page I fear." --Lewis Turco, Book of Fears Other phobias, here... _http://www.italianamericanwriters.com/Turco.html#poem1_ (http://www.italianamericanwriters.com/Turco.html#poem1) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 5 12:45:41 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 12:45:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Susan Stewart event at Carleton Message-ID: _http://apps.carleton.edu/news/?content=content&module=&id=300805_ (http://apps.carleton.edu/news/?content=content&module=&id=300805) May 4, 2007 Acclaimed Poet and Critic to Appear at Carleton College Poet and critic Susan Stewart, professor of English at Princeton University Acclaimed poet and critic Susan Stewart will speak about her creative process while writing her forthcoming book of poetry, ?Red Rover,? Thursday, May 10 at 4 p.m. in the Gould Library Athenaeum. A reception and booksigning will follow Stewart?s lecture. The event is free and open to the public. A professor of English at Princeton University, Stewart is an award-winning poet and also considered one of the most important cultural critics writing in America today ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 5 12:58:29 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 12:58:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag Week) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463CB7B5.3070100@opus40.org> I love that. Wish I'd known that Lew was reading relatively close by -- I might have gone. I don't think, for Turco, that it's at all strange for a division, that being an issue that's so important to him. JforJames at aol.com wrote: > The other night I drove down to Meriden CT where Lewis Turco gave a > reading. It was a small crowd in Meriden Public library but there were > a few of his old friends from Meriden where he grew up. That was > nice to see. He read a number of pieces that had to do with the town > and/or townfolk. He had just published a first volume of a Collected > Poems, which he said contained his unrhymed and free verse poetry. He > was going to have second volume released shortly containing the formal > poetry. (I thought that was a strange way to divide the body of one's > work.) > > He read this poem and said it was almost verbatim from a letter he > received. > Finnegan > -- > > ERATOPHOBIA: The Fear of Poetry > > --for Linda Sardella Boucher > > "Dear Cousin," she wrote, "Thanks > for the books of poems. I must admit > that I haven't opened them. It's a source > of pride to me to have a poet in the family, > but I'm afraid I won't understand > > "the poems and I'd feel stupid. > I fear I haven't opened them. > I must admit I fear what lies in wait > between the covers: words that writhe, > that hiss at me off the page, > > "words that wriggle and won't hold still > to let me understand them. > Weird, huh? I'll work at it. I'll work > to get beneath the covers, to open one > in bed beneath the covers - they lie in wait > > "beside me on the nightstand. I'll reach out > one night and grab one, pull it underneath > the covers of my bed and, with a flashlight, > open it and see the poems writhing, > hissing at me on the page I fear." > > > --Lewis Turco, Book of Fears > Other phobias, here... > http://www.italianamericanwriters.com/Turco.html#poem1 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 5 14:06:19 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:06:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] new digs in chitown Message-ID: _http://www.suntimes.com/business/370502,CST-FIN-poetry04.article_ (http://www.suntimes.com/business/370502,CST-FIN-poetry04.article) REAL ESTATE | With Lilly backing, poetry group closes on prime home May 4, 2007 BY DAVID ROEDER _droeder at suntimes.com_ (mailto:droeder at suntimes.com) Hog Butcher for the World, Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat, Home to a Place where People who like Poetry can Meet. Pardon the desecration of Carl Sandburg's lines, but it is inspired by a literary turn in the Chicago real estate market. Poetry has bought property, and will put up a building. The Muse is news. Poetry magazine's new home will be at Dearborn and Superior. (John J. Kim/Sun-Times) Chicago's Poetry Foundation, which publishes the 95-year-old Poetry magazine, has closed on the purchase of the southwest corner of Dearborn and Superior for $6.7 million. The site includes two small buildings and a parking lot, which the foundation plans to replace with a "national home" for the art it celebrates. "We certainly hope the building will reflect our vision ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 5 14:25:48 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:25:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... Message-ID: In a message dated 5/5/2007 12:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: don't think, for Turco, that it's at all strange for a division, that being an issue that's so important to him. Turco talked a bit about the 60s and 70s when he felt like an outsider (as a formalist) in the poetry community. He spoke about how he got into compiling The Book of Forms. He said there wasn't any comparable book available at the time. I'm not sure if he was exagerating on that point. Probably he meant his guidebook was to be morre comprehensive than anything else available at the time. Some of the formally inclined on the list could probably shed some light on the dark ages of formalist poetry, when versifiers were hiding the catacombs and writing their poems on winding sheets of the dead. Someone else might know whether Turco's books contain a mix of free and formal poetry? If they do, then it strikes me as very odd to separate out the two modes in one's corpus. I think if you're going to publish both kinds then you should see them as complementary in some way and not something to quarantined apart. I would think that it'd be desirable that one's readers could encounter a villanelle on page 98 and turn to an unmetered, sans rime narrative on p. 99, and so on through the collection. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 5 15:52:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 21:52:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'lPoetry Slag ... References: Message-ID: <00f001c78f4e$f4daf5c0$028e3052@ANNY> could probably shed some light on the dark ages of formalist poetry, when versifiers were hiding the catacombs and writing their poems on winding sheets of the dead. poe revisited From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:25 PM Nat'lPoetry Slag ... In a message dated 5/5/2007 12:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: don't think, for Turco, that it's at all strange for a division, that being an issue that's so important to him. Turco talked a bit about the 60s and 70s when he felt like an outsider (as a formalist) in the poetry community. He spoke about how he got into compiling The Book of Forms. He said there wasn't any comparable book available at the time. I'm not sure if he was exagerating on that point. Probably he meant his guidebook was to be morre comprehensive than anything else available at the time. Some of the formally inclined on the list could probably shed some light on the dark ages of formalist poetry, when versifiers were hiding the catacombs and writing their poems on winding sheets of the dead. Someone else might know whether Turco's books contain a mix of free and formal poetry? If they do, then it strikes me as very odd to separate out the two modes in one's corpus. I think if you're going to publish both kinds then you should see them as complementary in some way and not something to quarantined apart. I would think that it'd be desirable that one's readers could encounter a villanelle on page 98 and turn to an unmetered, sans rime narrative on p. 99, and so on through the collection. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 5 16:11:24 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 16:11:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> Well, as Richard Hug osays, "You have to be silly to write poems at all." So this strikes me as no sillier than any other organizational method. What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in chronological order by title. I figure this is the way Turco sees, hears, feels his poetry divided. For that matter, I'm preparing a chapbook for release this summer, in which all the poems are in the same form. (Cue for "Oh, really, Tad? That's fascinating! Tell us more about it! When can we order a copy?") JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/5/2007 12:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > > don't think, for Turco, that it's at all strange for a division, that > being an issue that's so important to him. > > > Turco talked a bit about the 60s and 70s when he felt like an outsider > (as a formalist) in the poetry community. He spoke about how he got > into compiling The Book of Forms. He said there wasn't any comparable > book available at the time. I'm not sure if he was exagerating on that > point. Probably he meant his guidebook was to be morre comprehensive > than anything else available at the time. Some of the formally > inclined on the list could probably shed some light on the dark ages > of formalist poetry, when versifiers were hiding the catacombs and > writing their poems on winding sheets of the dead. > > Someone else might know whether Turco's books contain a mix of free > and formal poetry? If they do, then it strikes me as very odd to > separate out the two modes in one's corpus. I think if you're going to > publish both kinds then you should see them as complementary in some > way and not something to quarantined apart. I would think that it'd be > desirable that one's readers could encounter a villanelle on page 98 > and turn to an unmetered, sans rime narrative on p. 99, and so on > through the collection. > Finnegan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat May 5 16:25:03 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:25:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> References: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> Message-ID: <731bb17a0705051325y47ad4dc9u26ddc74e39be419f@mail.gmail.com> Oh really, Tad? Prithee, do tell, do tell! Really, I want to know more. I'm very interested in the chapbook as a form itself & all that it might imply. I've got one chapbook completed (& am shopping at contests). I've got another idea for one that would be facing-page translations of my own work into Spanish. Jeff Newberry On 5/5/07, TheOldMole wrote: > > Well, as Richard Hug osays, "You have to be silly to write poems at > all." So this strikes me as no sillier than any other organizational > method. What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in > chronological order by title. I figure this is the way Turco sees, > hears, feels his poetry divided. For that matter, I'm preparing a > chapbook for release this summer, in which all the poems are in the same > form. (Cue for "Oh, really, Tad? That's fascinating! Tell us more about > it! When can we order a copy?") > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/5/2007 12:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > Opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: > > > > don't think, for Turco, that it's at all strange for a division, > that > > being an issue that's so important to him. > > > > > > Turco talked a bit about the 60s and 70s when he felt like an outsider > > (as a formalist) in the poetry community. He spoke about how he got > > into compiling The Book of Forms. He said there wasn't any comparable > > book available at the time. I'm not sure if he was exagerating on that > > point. Probably he meant his guidebook was to be morre comprehensive > > than anything else available at the time. Some of the formally > > inclined on the list could probably shed some light on the dark ages > > of formalist poetry, when versifiers were hiding the catacombs and > > writing their poems on winding sheets of the dead. > > > > Someone else might know whether Turco's books contain a mix of free > > and formal poetry? If they do, then it strikes me as very odd to > > separate out the two modes in one's corpus. I think if you're going to > > publish both kinds then you should see them as complementary in some > > way and not something to quarantined apart. I would think that it'd be > > desirable that one's readers could encounter a villanelle on page 98 > > and turn to an unmetered, sans rime narrative on p. 99, and so on > > through the collection. > > Finnegan > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's free at AOL.com > > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat May 5 17:10:32 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:10:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> References: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> Message-ID: <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> Neat trick if you can do it. Who's Richard Hug? Who's Asbery? Hal ;) "America loves a successful sociopath." --Gary Indiana Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 5, 2007, at 3:11 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in > chronological order by title. From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat May 5 17:31:25 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 17:31:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> References: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <731bb17a0705051431n62bf6806p69b7995313ad544e@mail.gmail.com> You don't John Assberry, Halvard? He wrote "Self Portrait in a Bathroom Mirro." & Richard Hug is famous for his book of essays The Tickling Town. Jeff Newberry On 5/5/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Neat trick if you can do it. > > Who's Richard Hug? Who's Asbery? > > Hal ;) > > "America loves a successful sociopath." > --Gary Indiana > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On May 5, 2007, at 3:11 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in > > chronological order by title. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat May 5 17:32:51 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 17:32:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0705051431n62bf6806p69b7995313ad544e@mail.gmail.com> References: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> <731bb17a0705051431n62bf6806p69b7995313ad544e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0705051432u43ef7a8ahf308e51cc9b082d0@mail.gmail.com> I meant "You don't know John Assbery." But what I wrote makes "John Assbery" sound like some hip things the kids would do: "You going out tonight?" "Nah, I'm blogging & texting. What about you?" "I'm gonna John Assbery. Haven't done that in a while." ;-) Jeff Newberry On 5/5/07, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > You don't John Assberry, Halvard? > > He wrote "Self Portrait in a Bathroom Mirro." > > & Richard Hug is famous for his book of essays The Tickling Town. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 5/5/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > Neat trick if you can do it. > > > > Who's Richard Hug? Who's Asbery? > > > > Hal ;) > > > > "America loves a successful sociopath." > > --Gary Indiana > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > On May 5, 2007, at 3:11 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > > > What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in > > > chronological order by title. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat May 5 17:39:18 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:39:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0705051432u43ef7a8ahf308e51cc9b082d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> <731bb17a0705051431n62bf6806p69b7995313ad544e@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0705051432u43ef7a8ahf308e51cc9b082d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Jef. I'll look into those guys. Hal "There are then quite a number of things one does or does not know." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org > On 5/5/07, Jeff Newberry wrote: > You don't John Assberry, Halvard? > > He wrote "Self Portrait in a Bathroom Mirro." > > & Richard Hug is famous for his book of essays The Tickling Town. > > Jeff Newberry > > > On 5/5/07, Halvard Johnson < halvard at earthlink.net> wrote: > Neat trick if you can do it. > > Who's Richard Hug? Who's Asbery? > > Hal ;) > > "America loves a successful sociopath." > --Gary Indiana > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On May 5, 2007, at 3:11 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > > > What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in > > chronological order by title. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 5 18:16:02 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 18:16:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eratophobia: fear of poetry (& the end of Nat'l Poetry Slag ... In-Reply-To: <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> References: <463CE4EC.5090100@opus40.org> <49F8C4F0-B8C7-4034-A19C-70FA1F277DFD@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <463D0222.40206@opus40.org> Discount poets. You can find them on the two for a dollar shelf, along with Sylvia Path, Ted Hugs, and W. D. Snodgas. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Neat trick if you can do it. > > Who's Richard Hug? Who's Asbery? > > Hal ;) > > "America loves a successful sociopath." > --Gary Indiana > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On May 5, 2007, at 3:11 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> What about that book of Asbery's where the poems are arranged in >> chronological order by title. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun May 6 10:29:13 2007 From: rsgwynn1 at cs.com (rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 16:29:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] error Message-ID: <200705061346.l46DkKir020311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> The original message was received at Sun, 6 May 2007 16:29:13 +0200 from cs.com [79.156.254.201] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to wiz.cath.vt.edu.: >>> DATA <<< 400-aturner; %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output <<< 400-aturner; -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed <<< 400 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pqb.zip Type: application/octet-stream Size: 28976 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 6 11:09:11 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:09:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mac Low influenced young OK sound poets Message-ID: _http://hub.ou.edu/articles/article.php?article_id=1712033609&search_id=202997 3675_ (http://hub.ou.edu/articles/article.php?article_id=1712033609&search_id=2029973675) Student poets spout ?Subterranean?-style sounds By Ryan Daly ? The Oklahoma Daily Posted 9:24 p.m., May 2, 2007 The Jacobson House was packed. The audience, which ranged from aging intellectuals in slacks and blazers to college students in flip-flops, listened attentively to instructions issued from five students standing at the front of the small room. The crowd looked pensively for a moment at brightly colored sheets of paper that had been passed out before the performance. The papers were filled with words, from inanimate objects to expletives. Slowly at first, then gradually building momentum and dissolving to utter chaos, the performers and audience began reading the words, enunciating each carefully. The group is Sound Lab. ... ?We incorporate a lot of the [beat poets] as a jumping-off point, but our main influence is a guy named Jackson Mac Low,? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 6 11:23:02 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:23:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy 50th Annivesary, Helvetica Message-ID: 2007 marks the fiftieth anniversary of Max Miedinger and Edouard Hoffmann?s design Helvetica, the most ubiquitous of all typefaces. Widely considered the official typeface of the twentieth century, Helvetica communicates with simple, well-proportioned letterforms that convey an aesthetic clarity that is at once universal, neutral, and undeniably modern. In honor of the first typeface acquired for MoMA?s collection, the installation presents posters, signage, and other graphic material demonstrating the variety of uses and enduring beauty of this design classic. As a special feature in the exhibition, an excerpt of Gary Hustwit?s documentary Helvetica reveals the typeface as we experience it in an everyday context. Organized by Christian Larsen, Curatorial Assistant, Department of Architecture and Design. _http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/2007/helvetica.html_ (http://www.moma.org/exhibitions/2007/helvetica.html) What's your preferred typeface for poetry? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Sun May 6 10:26:18 2007 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:26:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbage & Play Message-ID: No doubt there is a connection here: it's final exam week at Ripon College, and I have been reading Dean Young. Anyway, I just wanted to add another entry to the Memorable Blurb list that I've been compiling haphazardly for years. A real gem on the back cover of *Skid*, by Mary Ruefle. I quote it in its entirety: "Several serious mistakes have resulted from Dean Young's absence during the events described in the first chapter of Genesis." In his acknowledgements, Young also provides a highly unusual note: "'A Poem by Dean Young' was written by Mary Ruefle. Its companion, 'A Poem by Mary Ruefle' written by Dean Young, may be found among her work." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 6 11:27:57 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:27:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] More on typography Message-ID: _http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/203181_ (http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/203181) Helvetica's lack of name-brand recognition is not your fault. Typography is considered an invisible art, and Helvetica's ubiquity makes it even easier for it to disappear into the background, overshadowed by the meaning of the words it makes visible. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun May 6 10:38:20 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:38:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young Cotton Message-ID: Cotton in a Pill Bottle I love the fog. It's not one hundred degrees. It's not Mary sobbing on the phone or powder- white mildew killing the rose. My father lost inside it keeps pretending he's dead just so he can get a little peace. It's not made of fire or afraid of fire like me, it has nothing to do with smoke. There's never any ash, anything to sift through. You just put your hand on the yellow rail and the steps seem to move themselves. It doesn't have a job to do. It's morning all afternoon. It loves the music but would be just as happy listening to the game. Still, I don't know what frightens me. It doesn't blame anyone. You'll never see tears on its cheeks. It'll never put up a fight. I love how the fog lies down in the air, how it can get only so far from the sea. --Dean Young. Skid. U Pittsburgh, 2002. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun May 6 11:45:39 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:45:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More on typography In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: More on typornography From halvard at earthlink.net Sun May 6 11:48:11 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:48:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mac Low influenced young OK sound poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CCD9134-991A-4748-9ED2-20CB76710AC4@earthlink.net> Okay, OK sound poets sound sound enough to me. I'd only hope they (and their audience) were reading those words randomly, not in unison. Hal "I always wanted to be a cosmologist but failed the physical." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 6, 2007, at 10:09 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://hub.ou.edu/articles/article.php? > article_id=1712033609&search_id=2029973675 > Student poets spout ?Subterranean?-style sounds > By Ryan Daly ? The Oklahoma Daily > Posted 9:24 p.m., May 2, 2007 > > > The Jacobson House was packed. The audience, which ranged from > aging intellectuals in slacks and blazers to college students in > flip-flops, listened attentively to instructions issued from five > students standing at the front of the small room. > > The crowd looked pensively for a moment at brightly colored sheets > of paper that had been passed out before the performance. The > papers were filled > with words, from inanimate objects to expletives. Slowly at first, > then gradually building momentum and dissolving to utter chaos, the > performers and > audience began reading the words, enunciating each carefully. > > The group is Sound Lab. > ... > ?We incorporate a lot of the [beat poets] as a jumping-off point, > but our main influence is a guy named Jackson Mac Low,? > > > > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 6 12:24:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 18:24:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Message-ID: <003901c78ffb$0a4696b0$778d3052@ANNY> just read: Bill Lavender's I of the Storm Back-cover blurbs by Andrei Codrescu, Susan M. Schultz and Anselm Hollo. As Schultz says: "[...] miss it at your peril." *** Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 6 14:21:56 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 14:21:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Message-ID: >From Bill Lavender's poem... one night when i sit down i do begin to type and the poem begins to appear and once it begins in that way usually i finish it though might go back and change a word here and there or make some minor alteration generally try to keep revision to a minimum what i do is try not to think about it too much because too much thinking is usually bad overall i've also found that a little thinking and a little tinkering can be good i don't know that i understand all the ramifications of this wavering but as i said i try not to think about it too much antin talks about poetry and thinking as i recall -- That is New York School poetics for sure, ramblemindedroundaboutunrestrainedreverie. Here's a bit from Max Jacob as antithesis... Almost the only thing I still like nowadays is this process of scraping away. No more stylistic gewgaws. Tear yourself in half or else take the finished poem and tear that in half. (April 15, 1937, Letters to Marcel B?alu) The right poetic image is the one found after long, deep contemplation of the object to be depicted. (July 15, 1938, Letters to Marcel B?alu) Think your sentences before you write them; otherwise they are like the continuous bumps of bubbly soap that used to be left in bowl the instead of becoming the iridescent globes desired by the pipes of our childhood. A line of poetry is an iridescent soap-bubble. (March 1, 1949, Letters to Marcel B?alu) --Max Jacob, Hesitant Fire, selected prose of Max Jacob (translated and edited by Moishe Black and Maria Green, U. of Nebraska Press 1991) Finnegan In a message dated 5/6/2007 12:25:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: just read: Bill Lavender's _I of the Storm_ (http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/) Back-cover blurbs by Andrei Codrescu, Susan M. Schultz and Anselm Hollo. As Schultz says: "[...] miss it at your peril." *** ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 6 14:43:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:43:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm References: Message-ID: <00a001c7900e$6345d010$778d3052@ANNY> thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:21 PM From Bill Lavender's poem... one night when i sit down i do begin to type and the poem begins to appear and once it begins in that way usually i finish it though might go back and change a word here and there or make some minor alteration generally try to keep revision to a minimum what i do is try not to think about it too much because too much thinking is usually bad overall i've also found that a little thinking and a little tinkering can be good i don't know that i understand all the ramifications of this wavering but as i said i try not to think about it too much antin talks about poetry and thinking as i recall -- That is New York School poetics for sure, ramblemindedroundaboutunrestrainedreverie. Here's a bit from Max Jacob as antithesis... Almost the only thing I still like nowadays is this process of scraping away. No more stylistic gewgaws. Tear yourself in half or else take the finished poem and tear that in half. (April 15, 1937, Letters to Marcel B?alu) The right poetic image is the one found after long, deep contemplation of the object to be depicted. (July 15, 1938, Letters to Marcel B?alu) Think your sentences before you write them; otherwise they are like the continuous bumps of bubbly soap that used to be left in bowl the instead of becoming the iridescent globes desired by the pipes of our childhood. A line of poetry is an iridescent soap-bubble. (March 1, 1949, Letters to Marcel B?alu) --Max Jacob, Hesitant Fire, selected prose of Max Jacob (translated and edited by Moishe Black and Maria Green, U. of Nebraska Press 1991) Finnegan In a message dated 5/6/2007 12:25:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: just read: Bill Lavender's I of the Storm Back-cover blurbs by Andrei Codrescu, Susan M. Schultz and Anselm Hollo. As Schultz says: "[...] miss it at your peril." *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 6 15:35:41 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 15:35:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Message-ID: In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... _http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/_ (http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/) An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 6 16:02:05 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 22:02:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm References: Message-ID: <00bd01c79019$6b92bf70$778d3052@ANNY> No, I did not say this. What I wanted to say - which I did not say _ is that this book is a story with an introduction a corpus and an end, even if Lavender does not give an end. A story or better, a long prose poem, needs a development with its highs and lows. I know they quote an entire passage on that page, and I don't think it is necessary because it gives the wrong idea of what the book is. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 9:35 PM In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 6 17:04:59 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 23:04:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Beckett and Barry Schwabsky Message-ID: <00da01c79022$3541eff0$778d3052@ANNY> on E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com/2007/05/interview-with-barry-schwabsky.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sun May 6 23:29:01 2007 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:29:01 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heaney Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does anyone hear have, know, and/or like, a Heaney poem called "Sheela Na Gig?" And, if so, would you be into posting it on this list (as possible fodder for discussion or not)? I'm writing about (or 'about') the PJ Harvey song right now, and the Heaney poem may be useful in this context, at the very least as a footnote, or foil.... The Harvey song was 1992. I wonder if Heaney ever heard it, and if so his reaction.... Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out here... Chris From chan_jt at hotmail.com Mon May 7 07:06:58 2007 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 11:06:58 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions Message-ID: Hi, Poetry Sz:demystifying mental illness ( http://poetrysz.blogspot.com ) is calling for submissions. Send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Please read the submission guidelines first before submitting. Thanks. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ Live Search delivers results the way you like it. Try live.com now! http://www.live.com From skip at louisiana.edu Mon May 7 11:35:22 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:35:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c790bd$597b25d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Flaccid or gray? (Wasn't "gray" the designation of C.S. Lewis for a type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture an everyday language? Or muted? In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, perhaps. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan _____ See what's free at AOL.com . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 7 10:48:46 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:48:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young Through Mists Message-ID: We Through Mists Descry So much energy. People buying watermelons, boarding airplanes, watching their parents die, and writing poems about it while above throbs the celestial. I love how sadness can turn celebratory, the childlike apocalyptic. Bees return to their hives, freighted with nectars. Shadows rise from the mud, flinging back their wet hair and even though this seashell is very small, it's still singing about the void. Often great tension arises between sincerity and rhetoricity imposing vague profundities. Outside a man is failing to push-start his car, albeit a very polished car. Remember how rash Apollo was even while inventing calculus? He did it to impress some skinny kid milking a goat after all. Let's not forget the head in the furnace, how burning is laughing and laughing is also crying out. When my father died, I saw his spirit snag in a tree, a woman running across a parking lot, windows full of smoke. When my father died, his spirit snagged in a tree then left behind its last body of plastic bags. I saw the sky wring its blue until it cracked and oils leaked out. I thought I was seeing everything and could turn off the white light with a switch. Satellite dishes in every yard, shiny shiny stars. I'd like to be completely free but I want everything to belong to me. You fall upon the roses of life and bleed and people think you're a fool. But later, at the cash bar, the disputants are transformed by the lips of their eyes, the sex organs of exhaled cigarette smoke. Even if it's only skin-deep, once you derive the area, consider how the skin goes into the ears, behind the eyes, down the throat, that's an awful lot of beauty. Once someone told me I should live by water. Once someone sold me a surge protector for every room. -- Dean Young. Skid. U Pittsburgh, 2002. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 7 13:14:50 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 13:14:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dean Young Through Mists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463F5E8A.20302@opus40.org> Thumbs up for this. There are very few poems that I won't give up on reading after I get to a phrase like "When my father died," but this one carries me through. David Graham wrote: > */ /* > */ /* > *We Through Mists Descry* > * * > * * > So much energy. People buying watermelons, > boarding airplanes, watching their parents die, > and writing poems about it while above throbs > the celestial. I love how sadness can turn > celebratory, the childlike apocalyptic. > Bees return to their hives, freighted > with nectars. Shadows rise from the mud, > flinging back their wet hair and even though > this seashell is very small, it's still singing > about the void. Often great tension arises > between sincerity and rhetoricity imposing > vague profundities. Outside a man is failing > to push-start his car, albeit a very polished car. > Remember how rash Apollo was even while inventing > calculus? He did it to impress some skinny kid > milking a goat after all. Let's not forget > the head in the furnace, how burning is > laughing and laughing is also crying out. > When my father died, I saw his spirit snag > in a tree, a woman running across a parking lot, > windows full of smoke. When my father died, > his spirit snagged in a tree then left behind > its last body of plastic bags. I saw the sky > wring its blue until it cracked and oils > leaked out. I thought I was seeing everything > and could turn off the white light with a switch. > Satellite dishes in every yard, shiny shiny stars. > I'd like to be completely free but I want everything > to belong to me. You fall upon the roses of life > and bleed and people think you're a fool. But later, > at the cash bar, the disputants are transformed > by the lips of their eyes, the sex organs > of exhaled cigarette smoke. Even if it's only > skin-deep, once you derive the area, consider > how the skin goes into the ears, behind the eyes, > down the throat, that's an awful lot of beauty. > Once someone told me I should live by water. > Once someone sold me a surge protector for every room. > > -- Dean Young. /Skid/. U Pittsburgh, 2002. > */ /* > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From sd at debris.org.uk Mon May 7 14:08:16 2007 From: sd at debris.org.uk (sprosch vac 2) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 19:08:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: error In-Reply-To: <200705061346.l46DkKir020311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705061346.l46DkKir020311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20070507190708.56ED.SD@debris.org.uk> >> The original message was received at Sun, 6 May 2007 16:29:13 +0200 >> from cs.com [79.156.254.201] >> >> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >> >> >> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >> ... while talking to wiz.cath.vt.edu.: >> >>> DATA >> <<< 400-aturner; %MAIL-E-OPENOUT, error opening !AS as output >> <<< 400-aturner; -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed >> <<< 400 >> !authenticity i cried rising from autofmt (iso-8859-1)", as one would. o + . o dEbRiS <>< e sd at debris.org.uk . ><[[[[?> web http://www.debris.org.uk scattered_fragMents.l0ose_materiALs.etc o . / . . ||| . / .*-|/-* delete? |||||||||1|||||||||2|||||||||3|||||||||4|||||||||5|||||||||6||||||||7|| exit volvo water water water water water indigo november From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 7 15:43:05 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 21:43:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ars poetica Message-ID: <005e01c790df$eee9b970$543d014f@ANNY> The ars poetica project continues to tear the ends off of envelopes at: http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/ Poems appeared last week by: Ed Coletti, Lanny Quarles, Kaye Aldenhoven, Sheila E. Murphy, and Mark Young. Poems will appear this week by: Mark Young, Bj?rn Magnhild?en, Halvard Johnson, Rochelle Ratner and Angela O'Donnell A new poem about poetry every day. Enjoy, Dan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon May 7 16:10:21 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:10:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: error In-Reply-To: <20070507190708.56ED.SD@debris.org.uk> References: <200705061346.l46DkKir020311@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <20070507190708.56ED.SD@debris.org.uk> Message-ID: <648208b60705071310u4c4d835fl1b5b5448cc4b5fcc@mail.gmail.com> I tried hanging that on a wall but it lists to the left. I suggest moving the top nail hole (o) left a few notches. - Werk Jeans On 5/7/07, sprosch vac 2 wrote: > > !authenticity i cried rising from autofmt (iso-8859-1)", as one would. > > o > + . o > dEbRiS <>< > e sd at debris.org.uk . ><[[[[?> > web http://www.debris.org.uk > scattered_fragMents.l0ose_materiALs.etc o > . / . . ||| . / .*-|/-* delete? > |||||||||1|||||||||2|||||||||3|||||||||4|||||||||5|||||||||6||||||||7|| > exit > > volvo water water water water water indigo november > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon May 7 17:36:38 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 16:36:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: error References: <200705061346.l46DkKir020311@wiz.cath.vt.edu><20070507190708.56ED.SD@debris.org.uk> 648208b60705071310u4c4d835fl1b5b5448cc4b5fcc@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <005501c790ef$ce0a3f30$5ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I tried hanging that on a wall but it lists to the left. I suggest > moving the top nail hole (o) left a few notches. > > - Werk Jeans > > On 5/7/07, sprosch vac 2 wrote: >> >> !authenticity i cried rising from autofmt (iso-8859-1)", as one would. >> >> o >> + . o >> dEbRiS <>< >> e sd at debris.org.uk . ><[[[[?> >> web http://www.debris.org.uk >> scattered_fragMents.l0ose_materiALs.etc o >> . / . . ||| . / .*-|/-* delete? >> |||||||||1|||||||||2|||||||||3|||||||||4|||||||||5|||||||||6||||||||7|| >> exit >> >> volvo water water water water water indigo november I'm horrified by it. It's so much better than any of my poems. I love the, "as one would." But it could be improved. For example, I'd make the last line, "volvo water water father water water father water water indigo November." (I'm actually serious.) --Bob From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon May 7 21:09:49 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 21:09:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry by Year Message-ID: <463FCDDD.3070108@opus40.org> This is kinda neat, from Wikipedia. I suspect we all could help fill it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_years_in_poetry -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon May 7 21:56:21 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 21:56:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: error Message-ID: In a message dated 5/7/2007 3:36:10 PM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > I'm horrified by it. It's so much better than any of my poems. I love the, > > "as one would." But it could be improved. For example, I'd make the last > line, "volvo water water father water water father water water indigo > November." (I'm actually serious.) > > --Bob I'd cut the "volvo." It's just too much. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 7 22:56:04 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 22:56:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: <000101c790bd$597b25d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C95F338DACAF83-12D0-49F0@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Flaccid or gray? (Wasn?t ?gray? the designation of C.S. Lewis for a type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture an everyday language? Or muted? In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, perhaps. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 8 03:04:52 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 09:04:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <004a01c7913f$2ff48670$dfe03652@ANNY> Poem: "Above Pate Valley" by Gary Snyder, from Riprap and Cold Mountain Poems. ? Shoemaker & Hoard Publishers, 2003. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Above Pate Valley We finished clearing the last Section of trail by noon, High on the ridge-side Two thousand feet above the creek Reached the pass, went on Beyond the white pine groves, Granite shoulders, to a small Green meadow watered by the snow, Edged with Aspen-sun Straight high and blazing But the air was cool. Ate a cold fried trout in the Trembling shadows. I spied A glitter, and found a flake Black volcanic glass-obsidian- By a flower. Hands and knees Pushing the Bear grass, thousands Of arrowhead leavings over a Hundred yards. Not one good Head, just razor flakes On a hill snowed all but summer, A land of fat summer deer, They came to camp. On their Own trails. I followed my own Trail here. Picked up the cold-drill, Pick, singlejack, and sack Of dynamite. Ten thousand years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 8 12:10:46 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:10:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: <8C95F338DACAF83-12D0-49F0@webmail-da05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002501c7918b$75a1fb20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Anny's probably right then. What it lacks is the fullness of an entire piece if not the book. A certain 20 seconds of Stravinsky might not be as universally convincing as 20 seconds of Bach. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:56 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Flaccid or gray? (Wasn't "gray" the designation of C.S. Lewis for a type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture an everyday language? Or muted? In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, perhaps. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [ mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan _____ See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 8 12:15:56 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:15:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: <002501c7918b$75a1fb20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <002501c7918b$75a1fb20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <607844CB-5AA9-413B-A52B-8A710AC51150@earthlink.net> Hmm, either something's univerally convincing or it's not. It's sort of like uniqueness in that way. Hal, the universal pedant Today's Special "The Wordless Life" http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 8, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > Anny?s probably right then. What it lacks is the fullness of an > entire piece if not the book. > > > A certain 20 seconds of Stravinsky might not be as universally > convincing as 20 seconds of Bach. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:56 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described > it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle > away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an > exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray > thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is > mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. > > > I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray > guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: skip at louisiana.edu > Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > Flaccid or gray? (Wasn?t ?gray? the designation of C.S. Lewis for a > type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture > an everyday language? Or muted? > > > In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, > resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it > rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long > piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, > perhaps. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > > thesis & antithesis > > fine with me. > > > I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be > excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is > important to give this key. > > Anny, > > The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... > > http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ > > > An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? > > > Finnegan > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 8 12:21:07 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 11:21:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Writing in the Afterlife Message-ID: Writing in the Afterlife I imagined the atmosphere would be clear, shot with pristine light, not this sulphurous haze, the air ionized as before a thunderstorm. Many have pictured a river here, but no one mentioned all the boats, their benches crowded with naked passengers, each bent over a writing tablet. I knew I would not always be a child with a model train and a model tunnel, and I knew I would not live forever, jumping all day through the hoop of myself. I had heard about the journey to the other side and the clink of the final coin in the leather purse of the man holding the oar, but how could anyone have guessed that as soon as we arrived we would be asked to describe this place and to include as much detail as possible? not just the water, he insists, rather the oily, fathomless, rat-happy water, not simply the shackles, but the rusty, iron, ankle-shredding shackles? and that our next assignment would be to jot down, off the tops of our heads, our thoughts and feelings about being dead, not really an assignment, the man rotating the oar keeps telling us? think of it more as an exercise, he groans, think of writing as a process, a never-ending, infernal process, and now the boats have become jammed together, bow against stern, stern locked to bow, and not a thing is moving, only our diligent pens. --Billy Collins ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 8 12:27:21 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:27:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: <607844CB-5AA9-413B-A52B-8A710AC51150@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003501c7918d$c6e71e00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> As immediately convincing to many, As fully convincing to some, As summarily convincing to any, As foolishly convincing to none. Your right, Hal. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:16 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Hmm, either something's univerally convincing or it's not. It's sort of like uniqueness in that way. Hal, the universal pedant Today's Special "The Wordless Life" http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 8, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Skip Fox wrote: Anny's probably right then. What it lacks is the fullness of an entire piece if not the book. A certain 20 seconds of Stravinsky might not be as universally convincing as 20 seconds of Bach. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:56 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Flaccid or gray? (Wasn't "gray" the designation of C.S. Lewis for a type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture an everyday language? Or muted? In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, perhaps. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [ mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan _____ See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 8 12:42:21 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:42:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: <003501c7918d$c6e71e00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <003501c7918d$c6e71e00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Oh, no! I hate it when that happens. Hal, the univerally wrong "One barium enema is worth a year of psychoanalysis." --Dr. Robert Whitlock Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 8, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > As immediately convincing to many, > > As fully convincing to some, > > As summarily convincing to any, > > As foolishly convincing to none. > > > Your right, Hal. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:16 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > Hmm, either something's univerally convincing or it's not. > > It's sort of like uniqueness in that way. > > > Hal, the universal pedant > > > Today's Special > > > "The Wordless Life" > > http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > > > > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > > > Anny?s probably right then. What it lacks is the fullness of an > entire piece if not the book. > > > A certain 20 seconds of Stravinsky might not be as universally > convincing as 20 seconds of Bach. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:56 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described > it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle > away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an > exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray > thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is > mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. > > > I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray > guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: skip at louisiana.edu > Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > Flaccid or gray? (Wasn?t ?gray? the designation of C.S. Lewis for a > type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture > an everyday language? Or muted? > > > In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, > resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it > rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long > piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, > perhaps. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > > thesis & antithesis > > fine with me. > > > I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be > excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is > important to give this key. > > Anny, > > The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... > > http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ > > > An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? > > > Finnegan > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 8 13:01:00 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:01:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c79192$7a2227e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Not so far as I'm concerned. (My Dad used to jokingly chide me as a child when I used "almost perfect" which I did nearly almost all of the time. He was right to note propensity for unthinking exaggeration. He was right, too.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:42 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Oh, no! I hate it when that happens. Hal, the univerally wrong "One barium enema is worth a year of psychoanalysis." --Dr. Robert Whitlock Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 8, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Skip Fox wrote: As immediately convincing to many, As fully convincing to some, As summarily convincing to any, As foolishly convincing to none. Your right, Hal. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:16 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Hmm, either something's univerally convincing or it's not. It's sort of like uniqueness in that way. Hal, the universal pedant Today's Special "The Wordless Life" http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 8, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Skip Fox wrote: Anny's probably right then. What it lacks is the fullness of an entire piece if not the book. A certain 20 seconds of Stravinsky might not be as universally convincing as 20 seconds of Bach. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:56 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm Flaccid or gray? (Wasn't "gray" the designation of C.S. Lewis for a type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture an everyday language? Or muted? In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, perhaps. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [ mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: thesis & antithesis fine with me. I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is important to give this key. Anny, The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? Finnegan _____ See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 8 13:04:31 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:04:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm In-Reply-To: <000a01c79192$7a2227e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000a01c79192$7a2227e0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <6B3D2A30-A440-4498-9075-A082FBFA719A@earthlink.net> My wife exaggerates all the time too, Skip, and I've told her millions of times to stop it. Hal "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 8, 2007, at 12:01 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Not so far as I?m concerned. (My Dad used to jokingly chide me as a > child when I used ?almost perfect? which I did nearly almost all > of the time. He was right to note propensity for unthinking > exaggeration. He was right, too.) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:42 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > Oh, no! I hate it when that happens. > > > Hal, the univerally wrong > > > "One barium enema is worth a year > > of psychoanalysis." > > --Dr. Robert Whitlock > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > > > As immediately convincing to many, > > As fully convincing to some, > > As summarily convincing to any, > > As foolishly convincing to none. > > > Your right, Hal. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:16 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > Hmm, either something's univerally convincing or it's not. > > It's sort of like uniqueness in that way. > > > Hal, the universal pedant > > > Today's Special > > > "The Wordless Life" > > http://xstream.xpressed.org/11hal.html > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > > On May 8, 2007, at 11:10 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > Anny?s probably right then. What it lacks is the fullness of an > entire piece if not the book. > > > A certain 20 seconds of Stravinsky might not be as universally > convincing as 20 seconds of Bach. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:56 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > Sure, it's talk poetry, as one of the other blurbist's described > it, but in this example it's the talk of a guy one tries to sidle > away from at the party. Some NY School poets (and Schuyler is an > exception) are convinced that their discursive musings and stray > thoughts are more interesting than yours or mine. Lavender is > mistaken about the quality of my casual musings. > > > I like gray, gray is my favorite color, 'I would buy myself a gray > guitar' as the Counting Crows lyric goes. > > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: skip at louisiana.edu > Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:35 AM > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > Flaccid or gray? (Wasn?t ?gray? the designation of C.S. Lewis for a > type of 16th-cent. poetry?) Or a poetry trying to actually capture > an everyday language? Or muted? > > > In a way it reminds me somewhat of James Schuyler and David Antin, > resembling several qualities of each. What is interesting is how it > rises and falls in energy and intensity over the course of a long > piece while never losing its baseline. An immersion in the real, > perhaps. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 2:36 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] I of the Storm > > > In a message dated 5/6/2007 2:43:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > > thesis & antithesis > > fine with me. > > > I think that Bill Lavender's work in this book should not be > excerpted, it is a continuum that ends with Katrina. I think it is > important to give this key. > > Anny, > > The press/webpage you pointed to excerpted him... > > http://www.lavenderink.org/iofthestorm/ > > > An important event in human history is an excuse for flaccid poetry? > > > Finnegan > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 8 14:07:08 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:07:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My daughter In-Reply-To: <6B3D2A30-A440-4498-9075-A082FBFA719A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000001c7919b$b7afd220$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> My lovely daughter, Bessie Lee Fox, just defended her dissertation at The University of Kentucky and will be an assistant professor at Marymount University in Maryland beginning in the fall. My dad was a professor and one of his classes gave him the tee-shirt in the photo which my sisters sent to Bess after he died four years ago. He would have loved the picture. She'll be in the English Department at Marymount. (Where else?) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dr_fox.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 95087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From screwzbaran at gmail.com Tue May 8 14:10:14 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:10:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] My daughter In-Reply-To: <000001c7919b$b7afd220$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <6B3D2A30-A440-4498-9075-A082FBFA719A@earthlink.net> <000001c7919b$b7afd220$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0705081110o5918b32fh33120e8a163a9072@mail.gmail.com> Thank you for sharing! Wonderful! She's lovely! On 5/8/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > > > > My lovely daughter, Bessie Lee Fox, just defended her dissertation at The > University of Kentucky and will be an assistant professor at Marymount > University in Maryland beginning in the fall. My dad was a professor and one > of his classes gave him the tee-shirt in the photo which my sisters sent to > Bess after he died four years ago. He would have loved the picture. > > > > She'll be in the English Department at Marymount. (Where else?) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - Aldous Huxley From barry.spacks at verizon.net Tue May 8 14:32:06 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 11:32:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems In-Reply-To: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> Had the following post from a local sculptor today -- any suggestions available for him in his search for optimistic poems? ORIGINAL MESSAGE: I am working on a project and would love some references for poetry on shaping the future. It is important that the poetry or prose focuses on our ability to change things for the better. Any help or recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), optimistically, Barry From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 8 14:59:12 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:59:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems In-Reply-To: <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c791a2$fd2a8460$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Whitman would be the obvious choice (_Song of Myself_). Sandburg on the resilient progression of the lower classes (_The People, Yes_). Marianne Moore on the Allied sacrifice in WWII ("In Distrust of Merits," "'Keeping Their World Large," "We Call Them Brave," though the last is problematic), and Hilda Doolittle on defying the Nazi aggression ("These Walls Shall Not Fall" in her _Trilogy_). I'd certainly not turn him onto the likes of Ella Wheeler Wilcox or even Longfellow. It's easy to see some poems by poets like Hart Crane, Robert Duncan, Ted Berrigan, Richard Brautigan, and Gary Snyder as optimistic (and even some good ones by Emily Dickinson), but not in the social historical sense of the query. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Spacks Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 1:32 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems Had the following post from a local sculptor today -- any suggestions available for him in his search for optimistic poems? ORIGINAL MESSAGE: I am working on a project and would love some references for poetry on shaping the future. It is important that the poetry or prose focuses on our ability to change things for the better. Any help or recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), optimistically, Barry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From screwzbaran at gmail.com Tue May 8 15:03:06 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:03:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems In-Reply-To: <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> References: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0705081203x6d39a0cm73d681c9e611040d@mail.gmail.com> Hi Barry, Yes, my mentor, Daisaku Ikeda has books filled with poetry on changing as human beings to welcome peace. He's the president of a lay Buddhist organization called SGI. He writes peace proposals for the United Nations, annually, too -- and his books can be found here: http://www.ikedabooks.org/poetry/fight4peace.html http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=64841914 On 5/8/07, Barry Spacks wrote: > > Had the following post from a local sculptor today -- > any suggestions available for him in his search for > optimistic poems? > > ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > > I am working on a project and would love some references for poetry > on shaping > the future. It is important that the poetry or prose focuses on our > ability to change > things for the better. Any help or recommendations would be much > appreciated. > > Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), > > optimistically, > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - Aldous Huxley From screwzbaran at gmail.com Tue May 8 15:05:03 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:05:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems In-Reply-To: <000001c791a2$fd2a8460$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> <000001c791a2$fd2a8460$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0705081205k20e4d5a5m263c9f0065c1c196@mail.gmail.com> Daisaku Ikeda is best. He is a UN peace proposal writer, poet, essayist, lecturer and president of a lay Buddhist organization called SGI. http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=64841914 On 5/8/07, Skip Fox wrote: > Whitman would be the obvious choice (_Song of Myself_). Sandburg on the > resilient progression of the lower classes (_The People, Yes_). Marianne > Moore on the Allied sacrifice in WWII ("In Distrust of Merits," "'Keeping > Their World Large," "We Call Them Brave," though the last is problematic), > and Hilda Doolittle on defying the Nazi aggression ("These Walls Shall Not > Fall" in her _Trilogy_). > > I'd certainly not turn him onto the likes of Ella Wheeler Wilcox or even > Longfellow. > > It's easy to see some poems by poets like Hart Crane, Robert Duncan, Ted > Berrigan, Richard Brautigan, and Gary Snyder as optimistic (and even some > good ones by Emily Dickinson), but not in the social historical sense of the > query. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Spacks > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 1:32 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems > > > Had the following post from a local sculptor today -- > any suggestions available for him in his search for > optimistic poems? > > ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > > I am working on a project and would love some references for poetry > on shaping > the future. It is important that the poetry or prose focuses on our > ability to change > things for the better. Any help or recommendations would be much > appreciated. > > Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), > > optimistically, > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - Aldous Huxley From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 8 15:10:55 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:10:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems References: <000001c791a2$fd2a8460$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <00b501c791a4$9a78caa0$6da93852@ANNY> "our ability to change" I (sorry for this boasting trumpeting I) just put together : "Instruments of Change" http://lowres.uno.edu/classes/poetryworkshop/07spring/anny/poemsballardinianny.html what occured to me is (because I have it fresh in my mind, it will last for just about a couple of weeks...) Ronald Johnson's ARK especially for a Sculptor! if you wish see here: http://lowres.uno.edu/classes/poetryworkshop/07spring/anny/ballardinijohnsonark.html (mistakes included....:-( From: "Skip Fox" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 8:59 PM > Whitman would be the obvious choice (_Song of Myself_). Sandburg on the > resilient progression of the lower classes (_The People, Yes_). Marianne > Moore on the Allied sacrifice in WWII ("In Distrust of Merits," "'Keeping > Their World Large," "We Call Them Brave," though the last is problematic), > and Hilda Doolittle on defying the Nazi aggression ("These Walls Shall Not > Fall" in her _Trilogy_). > > I'd certainly not turn him onto the likes of Ella Wheeler Wilcox or even > Longfellow. > > It's easy to see some poems by poets like Hart Crane, Robert Duncan, Ted > Berrigan, Richard Brautigan, and Gary Snyder as optimistic (and even some > good ones by Emily Dickinson), but not in the social historical sense of > the > query. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Spacks > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 1:32 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems > > > Had the following post from a local sculptor today -- > any suggestions available for him in his search for > optimistic poems? > > ORIGINAL MESSAGE: > > I am working on a project and would love some references for poetry > on shaping > the future. It is important that the poetry or prose focuses on our > ability to change > things for the better. Any help or recommendations would be much > appreciated. > > Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), > > optimistically, > > Barry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 8 15:22:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:22:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems References: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu><3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> <2d5ffa0b0705081203x6d39a0cm73d681c9e611040d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00df01c791a6$41651250$6da93852@ANNY> Thanks to Suzanne, I thought of Thomas Merton: Thought to Remember: "The most wonderful moment of the day is when creation in its innocence asks permission to "be" once again, as it did on the first morning that ever was." Conjectures of A Guilty Bystander: 131 http://www.mertoninstitute.org/weekly_reflections.php From: "Suzanne Baran" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:03 PM > Hi Barry, > > Yes, my mentor, Daisaku Ikeda has books filled with poetry on changing > as human beings to welcome peace. > > He's the president of a lay Buddhist organization called SGI. He > writes peace proposals for the United Nations, annually, too -- and > his books can be found here: > > http://www.ikedabooks.org/poetry/fight4peace.html > http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=64841914 > > On 5/8/07, Barry Spacks wrote: >> >> Had the following post from a local sculptor today -- >> any suggestions available for him in his search for >> optimistic poems? >> >> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: >> >> I am working on a project and would love some references for poetry >> on shaping >> the future. It is important that the poetry or prose focuses on our >> ability to change >> things for the better. Any help or recommendations would be much >> appreciated. >> >> Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), >> >> optimistically, >> >> Barry >> > > > -- > "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for > a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to > an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with > words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and > unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of > inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - > Aldous Huxley > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue May 8 18:08:45 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 14:08:45 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems In-Reply-To: <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> References: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705081508k36fa2640rc57695e56f301269@mail.gmail.com> > Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), The Amway (amongst others) credo: If you believe it, you can achieve it? c (who's heard of this optimism thing) From screwzbaran at gmail.com Tue May 8 18:22:34 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:22:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0705081508k36fa2640rc57695e56f301269@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net> <9b1b9dab0705081508k36fa2640rc57695e56f301269@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0705081522v2aef5188mac4b99bb2c91bc7a@mail.gmail.com> Try Daisaku Ikeda's book of poems on peace. On 5/8/07, Chris Lott wrote: > > > Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), > > The Amway (amongst others) credo: If you believe it, you can achieve it? > > c (who's heard of this optimism thing) > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - Aldous Huxley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue May 8 18:50:15 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 18:50:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poems Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/2007 5:09:07 PM Central Standard Time, chris.lott at gmail.com writes: > >Thanks for anything you can supply (optimism lately in short supply), > > The Amway (amongst others) credo: If you believe it, you can achieve it? > > c (who's heard of this optimism thing) Anything by George Herbert is optimistic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 8 20:04:35 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 20:04:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My daughter In-Reply-To: <000001c7919b$b7afd220$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C95FE4C35C2500-1D9C-4222@WEBMAIL-MB15.sysops.aol.com> congrats to her...and the other 2 generations. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Tue, 8 May 2007 2:07 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] My daughter My lovely daughter, Bessie Lee Fox, just defended her dissertation at The University of Kentucky and will be an assistant professor at Marymount University in Maryland beginning in the fall. My dad was a professor and one of his classes gave him the tee-shirt in the photo which my sisters sent to Bess after he died four years ago. He would have loved the picture. She?ll be in the English Department at Marymount. (Where else?) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 8 22:45:56 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:45:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 New Titles from the Runaway Spoon Press References: <200705081533.l48FXJis002706@wiz.cath.vt.edu> 3825E286-CD55-42F4-A8BD-76B8AEEBA2B0@verizon.net Message-ID: <00e701c791e4$2dca4470$dcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> NOW AVAILABLE, $5 ppd. apiece cheer one-word visual poems by Dan Waber and SH ONE completely blitherated haiku from the inimitable John M. Bennett For specimen poems, and ordering information, Do a search for Runaway Spoon Press catalogue and go to it. I can't give the URL here because if I do, my Norton, which has taken over my computer, won't let my message be delivered. From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed May 9 13:00:06 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:00:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton Message-ID: Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its modest $100K stipend. http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/lifestyle/bal- to.clifton07may07,0,3656579.story?coll=bal-artslife-today A most deserving winner, I say. the photograph: a lynching is it the cut glass of their eyes looking up toward the new gnarled branch of the black man hanging from a tree? is it the white milk pleated collar of the woman smiling toward the camera, her fingers loose around a christian cross drooping against her breast? is it all of us captured by history into an accurate album? will we be required to view it together under a gathering sky? Lucille Clifton. Blessing The Boats: New & Selected Poems, 1988-2000. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed May 9 14:25:35 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 14:25:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4642121F.4020004@opus40.org> Good for her. David Graham wrote: > Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its modest > $100K stipend. > > http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/lifestyle/bal-to.clifton07may07,0,3656579.story?coll=bal-artslife-today > > A most deserving winner, I say. > > *the photograph: a lynching* > > > is it the cut glass > of their eyes > looking up toward > the new gnarled branch > of the black man > hanging from a tree? > > is it the white milk pleated > collar of the woman > smiling toward the camera, > her fingers loose around > a christian cross drooping > against her breast? > > is it all of us > captured by history into an > accurate album? will we be > required to view it together > under a gathering sky? > * * > Lucille Clifton. /Blessing The Boats:// //New & Selected Poems, > 1988-2000./ > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 9 16:52:11 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 15:52:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton References: B5AFEF1C-00D4-475B-B592-67D48757299C@ripon.edu Message-ID: <003001c7927b$ed27a6e0$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its modest $100K stipend. http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/lifestyle/bal-to.clifton07may07,0,3656579.story?coll=bal-artslife-today A most deserving winner, I say. Yeah. There can't be many more than a thousand American poets who are twice as good as she is. --Mr. Sour Grapes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed May 9 16:21:33 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 16:21:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton In-Reply-To: <003001c7927b$ed27a6e0$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003001c7927b$ed27a6e0$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: On 5/9/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its modest $100K > stipend. > Not shabby at all. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 9 16:31:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 22:31:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton References: B5AFEF1C-00D4-475B-B592-67D48757299C@ripon.edu <003001c7927b$ed27a6e0$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00b401c79279$1076fcc0$b98d3052@ANNY> From: Bob Grumman Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:52 PM Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its modest $100K stipend. http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/lifestyle/bal-to.clifton07may07,0,3656579.story?coll=bal-artslife-today A most deserving winner, I say. Yeah. There can't be many more than a thousand American poets who are twice as good as she is. --Mr. Sour Grapes Ah GruntMan! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed May 9 16:59:34 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 16:59:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton In-Reply-To: <00b401c79279$1076fcc0$b98d3052@ANNY> References: B5AFEF1C-00D4-475B-B592-67D48757299C@ripon.edu <003001c7927b$ed27a6e0$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <00b401c79279$1076fcc0$b98d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <46423636.7030906@opus40.org> Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > *From:* Bob Grumman > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:52 PM > > > Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its > modest $100K stipend. > > > http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/lifestyle/bal-to.clifton07may07,0,3656579.story?coll=bal-artslife-today > > A most deserving winner, I say. > > Yeah. There can't be many more than a thousand American poets > who are twice as good as she is. > > --Mr. Sour Grapes > > > > Ah GruntMan! > Well, you, me, and who else? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 9 18:27:51 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:27:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Payday for Clifton References: B5AFEF1C-00D4-475B-B592-67D48757299C@ripon.edu <003001c7927b$ed27a6e0$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><00b401c79279$1076fcc0$b98d3052@ANNY> 46423636.7030906@opus40.org Message-ID: <004c01c79289$499d2a00$38fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >> Lucille Clifton has won the Ruth Lily Poetry Prize, with its >> modest $100K stipend. >> >> >> http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/lifestyle/bal-to.clifton07may07,0,3656579.story?coll=bal-artslife-today >> >> A most deserving winner, I say. >> >> Yeah. There can't be many more than a thousand American poets >> who are twice as good as she is. >> >> --Mr. Sour Grapes >> >> >> >> Ah GruntMan! >> > > Well, you, me, and who else? Granted, the "twice as good" was an exaggeration. I should have said, "as good or better." There may not be many more than a hundred living American poets who are significantly better than Clifton--including at least half the hundred or so American poets my Runaway Spoon Press has published, and two or three dozen language poets, such as Silliman, Bernstein and Coolidge--and Ashbery, Wilbur. Mike Snyder. Even David Graham and Barry Spacks, and a number of others at New-Poetry. Even Jorie Graham, for Pete's sake. Many more I don't have time to try to remember. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed May 9 18:26:39 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:26:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYI: On poetry and politics Message-ID: <302B6ECF-5DC9-4AF8-BC8B-D931A8B3ED31@earthlink.net> http://www.nyfa.org/level3.asp?id=587&fid=6&sid=17 Hal, hoping the link works "Anything is art if an artist says it is." --Marcel Duchamp Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu May 10 13:26:39 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:26:39 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: optimistic poetry for a sculptor In-Reply-To: <200705101600.l4AG04is012189@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705101600.l4AG04is012189@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <277962B2-D70D-4DD5-80A5-DDB6EC41BD9E@verizon.net> Thanks, guys, for suggestions that may wind up written in stone. on on, Barry From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu May 10 15:05:17 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] clifton In-Reply-To: <200705101600.l4AG04it012189@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <506210.58919.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree with Bob that there are poets as good and better than Clifton currently writing, but I don't think that necessarily means Clifton doesn't deserve a nice hunk of cash for her poetry. She may not be the Utter Best, but she's still Pretty Darn Good in my book, so I say cheers to her! Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 10 17:00:25 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:00:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] clifton References: 506210.58919.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com Message-ID: <001c01c79346$3d9ad6e0$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I agree with Bob that there are poets as good and > better than Clifton currently writing, but I don't > think that necessarily means Clifton doesn't deserve a > nice hunk of cash for her poetry. She may not be the > Utter Best, but she's still Pretty Darn Good in my > book, so I say cheers to her! > Amicalement, > Alex Well, I'll say this: she's a lot better than many other poets getting grants--and I even think she's a fairly good poet. Her luck wouldn't bother me (much) if only more than one poet outside the mainstream and the academy per decade got a respectable grant. Jackson Mac Low is the only one who did that I know of. --Bob G. From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Thu May 10 14:46:00 2007 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:46:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] clifton In-Reply-To: <001c01c79346$3d9ad6e0$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <506210.58919.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001c01c79346$3d9ad6e0$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <1178822760.4643686877a67@webmail.nmsu.edu> I say she managed to become a fine poet while raising 5 (at least) kids. that deserves a chunk of change. connie Quoting Bob Grumman : > > > >I agree with Bob that there are poets as good and > > better than Clifton currently writing, but I don't > > think that necessarily means Clifton doesn't deserve a > > nice hunk of cash for her poetry. She may not be the > > Utter Best, but she's still Pretty Darn Good in my > > book, so I say cheers to her! > > Amicalement, > > Alex > > Well, I'll say this: she's a lot better than many other poets getting > grants--and I even think she's a fairly good poet. Her luck wouldn't bother > > me (much) if only more than one poet outside the mainstream and the academy > > per decade got a respectable grant. Jackson Mac Low is the only one who did > > that I know of. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 10 17:53:22 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:53:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] clifton References: <506210.58919.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001c01c79346$3d9ad6e0$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> 1178822760.4643686877a67@webmail.nmsu.edu Message-ID: <002e01c7934d$a34f5a40$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I say she managed to become a fine poet while raising 5 (at least) kids. >that > deserves a chunk of change. > > connie Sorry, but I extremely don't think that should be a factor. --Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 10 16:21:17 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:21:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] clifton In-Reply-To: <1178822760.4643686877a67@webmail.nmsu.edu> References: <506210.58919.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001c01c79346$3d9ad6e0$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <1178822760.4643686877a67@webmail.nmsu.edu> Message-ID: Yes, and I guess I'd want to add that Clifton does strike me as a very strong and unusual poet indeed, far from being just one of a crowd of equally talented, etc. Years ago I tended to underestimate her. And then I taught her work in a contemporary lit class, discovering in the process just how knotty, strange, and subtle her apparently simple, short poems can be. There's a great deal going on in a short space, and an absolute command of language that is a marvel. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone who sounds much like her, or marshalls her sort of variety of tone, theme, & effect in such short compass. To my mind she's very much the peer of the others who have won the Ruth Lilly prize: Hecht, Levine, Ashbery, Rich, et al. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== On May 10, 2007, at 2:46 PM, cvoisine at nmsu.edu wrote: > I say she managed to become a fine poet while raising 5 (at least) > kids. that > deserves a chunk of change. > > connie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asurkont at localnet.com Thu May 10 19:34:46 2007 From: asurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:34:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: clifton In-Reply-To: References: <506210.58919.qm@web35507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001c01c79346$3d9ad6e0$97fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <1178822760.4643686877a67@webmail.nmsu.edu> Message-ID: She is like a good bluesman; she has style. I would also add that the award is to honor a poet whose accomplishments over a lifetime merit extraordinary recognition. She is deserving; a fine choice. best, manda On Thu, 10 May 2007 16:21:17 -0400, David Graham wrote: > Yes, and I guess I'd want to add that Clifton does strike me as a > very strong and unusual poet indeed, far from being just one of a > crowd of equally talented, etc. Years ago I tended to underestimate > her. And then I taught her work in a contemporary lit class, > discovering in the process just how knotty, strange, and subtle her > apparently simple, short poems can be. There's a great deal going on > in a short space, and an absolute command of language that is a > marvel. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone who sounds much like > her, or marshalls her sort of variety of tone, theme, & effect in > such short compass. > > To my mind she's very much the peer of the others who have won the > Ruth Lilly prize: Hecht, Levine, Ashbery, Rich, et al. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > On May 10, 2007, at 2:46 PM, cvoisine at nmsu.edu wrote: > >> I say she managed to become a fine poet while raising 5 (at least) >> kids. that >> deserves a chunk of change. >> >> connie > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 11 12:20:18 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:20:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List Message-ID: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/awards_shortlist.php Judges John Burnside, Charles Simic and Karen Solie read 483 books of poetry, including 18 translations, received from 15 countries around the globe. The seven finalists ? three Canadian and four International ? will be invited to read in Toronto at the MacMillan Theatre on Tuesday, June 5, 2007. The winners, who each receive C$50,000, will be announced on Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at the seventh annual Griffin Poetry Prize Awards Evening. Canadian Shortlist Airstream Land Yacht ? Ken Babstock House of Anansi Press Strike/Slip ? Don McKay McClelland & Stewart Ontological Necessities ? Priscila Uppal Exile Editions International Shortlist Tramp in Flames ? Paul Farley Picador Salvation Blues ? Rodney Jones Houghton Mifflin Ooga-Booga ? Frederick Seidel Farrar, Straus and Giroux Scar Tissue ? Charles Wright Farrar, Straus and Giroux ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri May 11 13:08:49 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:08:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List In-Reply-To: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <317F269E-A213-44A2-9659-98B647B29234@earthlink.net> A likely story. Snort. Hal "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --William S. Burroughs Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 11, 2007, at 11:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/awards_shortlist.php > > Judges John Burnside, Charles Simic and Karen Solie read 483 books > of poetry, including 18 translations, received from 15 countries > around the globe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 11 18:18:08 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 18:18:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List In-Reply-To: <317F269E-A213-44A2-9659-98B647B29234@earthlink.net> References: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> <317F269E-A213-44A2-9659-98B647B29234@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C96231635A0893-1734-B4BF@WEBMAIL-RB07.sysops.aol.com> "It depends on how you read the meaning of the word 'read'. (said Clintonesquely) -----Original Message----- From: halvard at earthlink.net Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List A likely story. Snort. Hal "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --William S. Burroughs Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 11, 2007, at 11:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/awards_shortlist.php Judges John Burnside, Charles Simic and Karen Solie read 483 books of poetry, including 18 translations, received from 15 countries around the globe. = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 11 19:08:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 01:08:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List References: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com><317F269E-A213-44A2-9659-98B647B29234@earthlink.net> <8C96231635A0893-1734-B4BF@WEBMAIL-RB07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006701c79421$4151cce0$ddee064f@ANNY> 483 books of poetry, I would feel sick for an entire year, ... From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 12:18 AM "It depends on how you read the meaning of the word 'read'. (said Clintonesquely) -----Original Message----- From: halvard at earthlink.net Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List A likely story. Snort. Hal "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --William S. Burroughs Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 11, 2007, at 11:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/awards_shortlist.php Judges John Burnside, Charles Simic and Karen Solie read 483 books of poetry, including 18 translations, received from 15 countries around the globe. = -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 11 20:38:57 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 20:38:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List In-Reply-To: <006701c79421$4151cce0$ddee064f@ANNY> References: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com><317F269E-A213-44A2-9659-98B647B29234@earthlink.net> <8C96231635A0893-1734-B4BF@WEBMAIL-RB07.sysops.aol.com> <006701c79421$4151cce0$ddee064f@ANNY> Message-ID: <46450CA1.4020800@opus40.org> I would have been sneaking out to watch old Jimmy Neutron reruns... Anny Ballardini wrote: > 483 books of poetry, I would feel sick for an entire year, ... > > > *From:* jforjames at aol.com > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2007 12:18 AM > > > "It depends on how you read the meaning of the word 'read'. (said > Clintonesquely) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: halvard at earthlink.net > Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List > > A likely story. Snort. > > Hal > > "A paranoid is someone who knows a little > of what's going on." > --William S. Burroughs > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On May 11, 2007, at 11:20 AM, jforjames at aol.com > wrote: > >> http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/awards_shortlist.php >> >> Judges John Burnside, Charles Simic and Karen Solie read 483 >> books of poetry, including 18 translations, received from 15 >> countries around the globe. > = > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri May 11 22:26:55 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:26:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List References: <8C961FF6630ACCB-15FC-8864@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com><317F269E-A213-44A2-9659-98B647B29234@earthlink.net> <8C96231635A0893-1734-B4BF@WEBMAIL-RB07.sysops.aol.com><006701c79421$4151cce0$ddee064f@ANNY> 46450CA1.4020800@opus40.org Message-ID: <004f01c7943d$05a39130$b5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Griffin Poetry Prize Short List >I would have been sneaking out to watch old Jimmy Neutron reruns... > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> 483 books of poetry, I would feel sick for an entire year, ... I hate to be cynical, but I doubt more than a few dozen got more than glanced at. --Bob Gruntman From chris.lott at gmail.com Sat May 12 01:49:53 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:49:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705112249na1fbc48ibd11f69e47101c17@mail.gmail.com> I feel a need to read some Dante (guess enough time has passed since my forced march through The Inferno in a class many years ago)... but the number of translation available is pretty overwhelming. I'm not ready to learn Italian, though it seems like some of the translators might have translated without learning the language themselves! I want an enjoyable reading experience, but also some measure of fidelity to the original... Suggestions? c -- Chris Lott From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat May 12 07:02:58 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 07:02:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? Message-ID: I enjoyed Pinsky's translation of "The Inferno." I read "Purgatorio" and "Paradiso" in Allen Mandelbaum's translations but he doesn't adhere to the terza rima scheme. Ciardi employs strict terza rima, sometimes at the expense of a lot of other things. Actually I would consider learning Italian to read Dante in the original if I had world enough and time. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 12 08:03:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 14:03:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? References: Message-ID: <001401c7948d$91db33b0$f3de3052@ANNY> :-) If I am not wrong, Tom Beckett said he majored in Italian to get to Dante. I was very lucky because at high school I was taught Dante by a nun for whom the Divine Comedy was practically her life. Later on she was sent to Brazil as the director of the novices. She has been living here now for a couple of years and I met her. It was disappointing to hear her say that she had not taught for so many years and that it was impossible for her to go back. Fact is they recycled her at a middle school, and I'd bet that in a few years she'll be back in her full power... and glory! From: AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 1:02 PM I enjoyed Pinsky's translation of "The Inferno." I read "Purgatorio" and "Paradiso" in Allen Mandelbaum's translations but he doesn't adhere to the terza rima scheme. Ciardi employs strict terza rima, sometimes at the expense of a lot of other things. Actually I would consider learning Italian to read Dante in the original if I had world enough and time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat May 12 10:24:44 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 10:24:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/12/2007 6:03:18 AM Central Standard Time, AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: > I enjoyed Pinsky's translation of "The Inferno." I read "Purgatorio" and > "Paradiso" in Allen Mandelbaum's translations but he doesn't adhere to the > terza rima scheme. Ciardi employs strict terza rima, sometimes at the expense of > a lot of other things. > > Actually I would consider learning Italian to read Dante in the original if > I had world enough and time. > > Actually Ciardi doesn't use terza rima but a rhyme scheme that goes axa bxb and so on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat May 12 10:30:14 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 10:30:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? Message-ID: Shows how long it's been since I looked at it. Ciardi's translation has always seemed a bit clunky to me, but translation has always been a mystery to me, despite the fact that I read an awful lot of poetry in translation and once shared a house with a translator. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat May 12 09:51:42 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 09:51:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blues Singer's Woman Permitted To Tell Her Side References: <20070511124547.2DBAF102C4FD@mx1.theonion.com> Message-ID: Priceless story from The Onion: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28803?utm_source=EMTF_Onion ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 12 10:53:01 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 07:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Shanna Compton -- Poetry Foundation In-Reply-To: <20070503083442.AFC83269@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <700642.42471.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "Just Get the Poems Out There: How one writer found her home among the poet bloggers." http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179635 --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sat May 12 12:00:03 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 09:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Check Out Our New Look! Message-ID: <142466.34744.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias is now publishing in PDF format, which will allow readers and educators with a penchant for the page to print and distribute material easily. Each PDF contains the work of one poet, a photo, a bio, and a mini-interview. MiPOesias? PDFs are available for free download via: 1. MiPOesias? main page -- http://www.mipoesias.com, 2. ITunes -- Link located at the bottom of our main page -- or search ?MiPOesias Magazine? in ITunes, 3. And in the archived feed, along with many stellar past contributors to MiPOesias -- http://feeds.feedburner.com/MipoesiasMagazineRevistaLiteraria -------- Recent work ? Jasmine Dream Wagner ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/Jasmine_Dreame_Wagner.pdf Lina ramona Vitkauskas -- http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/Lina_ramona_Vitkauskas.pdf Cate Peebles ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/peebles_cate.pdf Todd Colby ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/colby_todd.pdf Will Edmiston ? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/edmiston_will.htm Amber Reed ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/Amber_Reed.pdf Sandra Simonds ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/Sandra_Simonds.pdf Megan Volpert -- http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/MeganVolpert1.pdf Marty Hebrank -- http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/MartyHebrank2.pdf Diana Adams -- http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/DianaAdams22.pdf Bernard Henrie ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/henrie_bernard.pdf Matt Shears ? http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/Matt_Shears.pdf Rosanna Lee -- http://cache.libsyn.com/miporadio/Rosanna_Lee.pdf Thanks for reading! Didi Menendez ? Publisher Amy King ? Editor in Chief Meghan Punschke ? Managing Editor Michael Parker ? Reviews Editor Dan Coffey ? Reviews Editor April Carter-Grant ? Production Assistant http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------- Forthcoming Guest-Edited Issues by David Trinidad, K.S. Mohammad, and Emma Trellis. --------- Guest-Edited Issues Evie Shockley -- http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE Nick Carbo -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Asian-American2007 Gabriel Gudding -- http://www.mipoesias.com/Volume19Issue3Gudding/ David Trinidad -- http://www.mipoesias.com/April2004/ Tom Beckett -- http://www.mipoesias.com/2006/corriente.html ---------- --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br Sat May 12 14:09:54 2007 From: ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br (Ana Olinto) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:09:54 -0300 Subject: [New-Poetry] HI EVERYBODY Message-ID: <004b01c794c0$be8298d0$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> HI EVERYBODY I'M A POET AND PAINTER YOU CAN SEE SOME OF MY PAINTINGS IN MY SITE: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto CHEERS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat May 12 15:12:13 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:12:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] HI EVERYBODY In-Reply-To: <004b01c794c0$be8298d0$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> References: <004b01c794c0$be8298d0$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> Message-ID: <4646118D.7030003@opus40.org> Not bad. Ana Olinto wrote: > HI EVERYBODY > > I'M A POET AND PAINTER > > YOU CAN SEE SOME OF MY PAINTINGS IN MY SITE: > > www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto > > CHEERS > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bmarcacci at gmail.com Sat May 12 18:03:49 2007 From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 00:03:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] HI EVERYBODY In-Reply-To: <004b01c794c0$be8298d0$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> Message-ID: where's the poetry! -- Bob Marcacci Is this true or only clever? - Augustine Birrell > From: Ana Olinto > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:09:54 -0300 > To: > Cc: Ana Olinto > Subject: [New-Poetry] HI EVERYBODY > > HI EVERYBODY > > I'M A POET AND PAINTER > > YOU CAN SEE SOME OF MY PAINTINGS IN MY SITE: > > www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto > > CHEERS > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun May 13 03:36:25 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 08:36:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking/reading another language helps in the understanding process. I taught myself French in order to do so. I've considered learning Italian as well just to read Dante. Roger On 5/12/07, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > Shows how long it's been since I looked at it. Ciardi's translation has > always seemed a bit clunky to me, but translation has always been a mystery > to me, despite the fact that I read an awful lot of poetry in translation > and once shared a house with a translator. > > > ________________________________ > See what's free at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br Sun May 13 07:47:29 2007 From: ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br (Ana Olinto) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 08:47:29 -0300 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi Message-ID: <001301c79554$7cad6b80$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> hi everybody i'm a poet and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto cheers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sun May 13 10:39:10 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:39:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? Message-ID: Had we world enough and time... ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 13 14:07:26 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:07:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo Message-ID: <009301c79589$95519b40$a3ed064f@ANNY> I cannot remember who suggest this book on this list, an excellent reading, thank you. I exerted the following: Tretitoli, Where the Bomb Group Was Windy hunks of light, no prop wash, bend the green grain no one tried to grow twenty years ago. Two nuns run a school where flyers cursed the endless marmalade and Spam, or choked their powdered eggs down throats Ploesti tightened in their dreams. Always phlegm before the engines warmed and always the private gesture of luck- touching a bomb, saying the name of a face spun in without a sound at Odertol. Hope to win a war gets thin when nuns pour strega in a room where dirty songs about the chaplain booked. Recent land reform gave dirt to the forlorn. That new farm stands where I would stand in the afternoon alone and stare across those unfarmed miles and plan to walk them to the yellow town away from war, disguised in shepherd black. That pumphouse hid three whores for weeks until disease began to show. Now, no roar. No one sweats the sky out late in day. No trace of squadron huts and stone block walls supporting tents. Those grim jokes. The missions flown counted on the plane in cartoon bombs. Always wide awake toward the end when the man came saying time to fly, awake from dreams complete with mobs, thick clubs and slamming syllables of hun I couldn't understand, trapped behind cracked glass somewhere deep in Munich I had never seen, waiting for their teeth to snip me from the drunken songs of men. We drive off. Children wait for class. Grain is pale where truck pools were, parked planes leaked oil or bombs were piled. The runway's just a guess. I'd say, there. Beyond the pumphouse and restricted whores where nuns and shepherds try to soar by running, arms stuck out for wings against the air, and wind is lit in squadrons by the grain. [.] Our losses were terrible. The wing must have lost at least 30 percent, the highest we suffered that late in the war. And no publicity because it happened on December 17, 1944, the same day the Battle fo the Bulge began. [.] I remembered that only a day or two after we arrived we were called to a meeting of officers in squadron headquarters where we heard the squadron commander deliver an incoherent speech about formation flying. He ended this chaotic diatribe by assuring us that he was a good guy and if any fo us would just have a drink with him we'd realize just how good a guy he was. A week later he was sent home, a mental casualty of the war. [.] All flying was voluntary. You could quit whenever you wanted and all you lost was your flight pay. We didn't quit because of social pressure, fear of what others would think, and the fear of ending up in the combat ground forces, although that was a remote possibility. April in Cerignola This is Puglia and cruel. The sun is mean all summer and the tramontana whips the feeble four months into March. It was far too tense. Off the streets by five. Flyers screaming begging children off and flyers stabbed. The only beauty is the iron grillwork, and neither that nor spring was here when I was young. It used to be my town. The closest one for bomb-bomb boys to buy spumante in. it reeked like all the towns. Italian men were gone. The women locked themselves in dark behind the walls, the bullet holes patched now. Dogs could sense the madness and went mute. The streets were mute despite the cry of children: give me a cigarette. But always flat- the land in all directions and the time. I was desolate, too, and so survived. I had a secret wish, to bring much food and feed you through the war. I wished you also dead. All roads lead to none. You're too far from the Adriatic to get good wind. Harsh heat and roaring cold are built in like abandonment each year. And every day, these mean streets open knowing there's no money and no fun. So why return? You tell me I'm the only one came back, and you're amazed I haven't seen Milan. I came in August and went home in March, with no chance in experience the miles of tall grain jittering in wind, the olive trees alive from recent rain. You're still my town. The men returned. The women opened doors. The hungry lived and grew, had children they can feed. Most of all, the streets are wide, lead nowhere, and dying in your weather takes a lifetime of surviving last year's war. from The Triggering Town Richard Hugo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sun May 13 14:51:55 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:51:55 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo Message-ID: One of the best books, if not the best, ever for beginning and even veteran poets. I usually use several chapters of it for my creative writing classes. This is a poem of Hugo's that in many ways made poetry real for me: Degrees of Gray in Philipsburg You might come here Sunday on a whim. Say your life broke down. The last good kiss you had was years ago. You walk these streets laid out by the insane, past hotels that didn't last, bars that did, the tortured try of local drivers to accelerate their lives. Only churches are kept up. The jail turned 70 this year. The only prisoner is always in, not knowing what he's done. The principal supporting business now is rage. Hatred of the various grays the mountain sends, hatred of the mill, The Silver Bill repeal, the best liked girls who leave each year for Butte. One good restaurant and bars can't wipe the boredom out. The 1907 boom, eight going silver mines, a dance floor built on springs-- all memory resolves itself in gaze, in panoramic green you know the cattle eat or two stacks high above the town, two dead kilns, the huge mill in collapse for fifty years that won't fall finally down. Isn't this your life? That ancient kiss still burning out your eyes? Isn't this defeat so accurate, the church bell simply seems a pure announcement: ring and no one comes? Don't empty houses ring? Are magnesium and scorn sufficient to support a town, not just Philipsburg, but towns of towering blondes, good jazz and booze the world will never let you have until the town you came from dies inside? Say no to yourself. The old man, twenty when the jail was built, still laughs although his lips collapse. Someday soon, he says, I'll go to sleep and not wake up. You tell him no. You're talking to yourself. The car that brought you here still runs. The money you buy lunch with, no matter where it's mined, is silver and the girl who serves your food is slender and her red hair lights the wall. And another: Death of the Kapowsin Tavern I can't ridge it back again from char. Not one board left. Only ash a cat explores and shattered glass smoked black and strung about from the explosion I believe in the reports. The white school up for sale for years, most homes abandoned to the rocks of passing boys--the fire, helped by wind that blew the neon out six years before, simply ended lots of ending. A damn shame. Now, when the night chill of the lake gets in a troller's bones where can the troller go for bad wine washed down frantically with beer? And when wise men are in style again will one recount the two-mile glide of cranes from dead pines or the nameless yellow flowers thriving in the useless logs, or dots of light all night about the far end of the lake, the dawn arrival of the idiot with catfish--most of all, above the lake the temple and our sanctuary there? Nothing dies as slowly as a scene. The dusty jukebox cracking through the cackle of a beered-up crone-- wagered wine--sudden need to dance-- these remain in the black debris. Although I know in time the lake will send wind black enough to blow it all away. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun May 13 15:21:42 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:21:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi In-Reply-To: <001301c79554$7cad6b80$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> References: <001301c79554$7cad6b80$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> Message-ID: Welcome. I like your paintings. One day, I hope to be as good as you. In return, I have a few on my website http://www.badstep.net/ Roger On 5/13/07, Ana Olinto wrote: > > > hi everybody > i'm a poet and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: > > www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto > > cheers > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 13 15:47:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:47:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] International Richard Wright Centennial Conference Message-ID: <00ed01c79597$7e1e6530$a3ed064f@ANNY> > Van: William DOW [mailto:william.dow at wanadoo.fr] > Verzonden: zondag 13 mei 2007 17:20 The American University of Paris announces the International Richard Wright Centennial Conference. It will be held 19-21 June 2008 at The American University of Paris and at the Mus?e des ann?es trente (Museum of the Nineteen Thirties), in Boulogne-Billancourt. The Conference will encourage broad international and interdisciplinary explorations of Wright's life and writing, with a special emphasis on the Paris he inhabited (1947-1960), both what it was and what it is today as a result of the marks he left behind, and on his experiences in Africa. Stressing the importance of Richard Wright, the conference hopes to be an international point of intersection for all those interested in Wright's work from literary and cultural critics, to political activists, poets, musicians, publishers and historians. We seek the widest range of academic and public intellectual discussion around Wright's work which has influenced so many and so much. Topics may include, but are not limited to: Wright in the Black Atlantic: Transnationalism and Transatlanticism Wright and expatriate Paris Wright as exile and travel writer The reception of Wright's work in various non-U.S. settings Wright and African American Satire, Irony, and Comedy Wright and the African American Literary Canon Wright, Whiteness, and Black Masculinity Wright and African American Confinement Literature Wright, Gender, and the Political Use of Modernism Wright's Cultural Criticism Wright and Literary Friendships and Influences Wright and Films Wright and Teaching Pluriculturalism Wright's Influence on the World Today Paper/presentation proposals should include: 1.. A brief (250-300 word) abstract. 2.. A brief (1-2pp.) vita. The deadline is January 15, 2008. Submit abstracts to: Alice Craven at Alice.Craven at aup.fr OR William.Dow at wanadoo.fr -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 13 20:49:02 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:49:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? Message-ID: I've been making way thru the Mark Musa translation and it seems very well done and has no whiff of mustiness about it. I picked it mainly because I finished the Teaching Company's CD lecture _http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=287&id=287&pc=Literature %20and%20English%20Language_ (http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=287&id=287&pc=Literature%20and%20English%20Language) when I was in my car driving around to banks selling them insurance. The tag-team of teachers who delivered the lecture recommended it. I'm driving smarter these days. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun May 13 20:57:25 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:57:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] HI EVERYBODY Message-ID: In a message dated 5/12/2007 2:10:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br writes: YOU CAN SEE SOME OF MY PAINTINGS IN MY SITE: _www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto_ (http://www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto) Welcome...I like your work. I see a little bit of Egon Scheile and some Lucian Freud lurking in those portraits. Maybe even some Francis Bacon without the raw meat? Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Sun May 13 22:53:03 2007 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:53:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kaya Oakes Telegraph reading Berkeley May 15th Message-ID: <845464.22567.qm@web83825.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Kaya Oakes will be reading at Pegasus Books in downtown Berkeley CA on Tuesday, May 15th at 7:30 pm Kaya Oakes' work has appeared in Conduit, Volt, MiPoesias, Coconut, Shampoo, and many other journals. The recipient of awards and grants from the Academy of American Poets and the Bay Area Writing Project, she is also the senior editor of Kitchen Sink Magazine, and she teaches writing at the University of California, Berkeley. PEGASUS BOOKS DOWNTOWN 2349 Shattuck Avenue Berkeley, CA 94704 510.649.1320 TELEGRAPH by Kaya Oakes ISBN: 978-1-886350-43-4 Winner of the Transcontinental Poetry Prize (editor's choice, 2006) 80 pages, 6 by 9, $14 Her book can be ordered here http://pavementsaw.org/books/telegraph.htm First books often offer versions of resurrection and Kaya Oakes' moving debut in TELEGRAPH charts a coming back to life with uncompromising lucidity and sorrow. In poetry rife with a bodily knowledge of the inherent ?second-ness? of women?s history, Oakes writes for the one and the many, Elektra her guide in the passage. ?I wonder if this earth meant anything when I leant my form to it,? the personae wonders in the final poem, and wonderfully, readers will find that it does, thanks to the earnest care of Kaya Oakes' making. --Claudia Keelan --------------------------------------- Elektra in the offices Barefoot and ripe with new embarrassment Elektra walks up three floors, trying not to sweat Constriction in her thighs, those red bands drawn tight and everyone who waited without knowing her was blind would receive her in a spotless blackness reserved for those who have forgotten seeing means we learned to feel in blindness, too. You ought to have gone with her, years ago. That was when it was easier to feel through things by pulling those last strands of someone?s hair and wrapping up your fingers with them, like a tourniquet. Elektra cuts her hair in bathrooms where her shape is strange where the windows stay shut, even on the hottest nights nail scissors in half-drunk bathrooms where she doesn?t live. While shots go off outside, the scissors scrape and pull. She climbs the stairs climbed so many times before. She has no one on her side, she has handwriting and flowers gathered in a backyard where her scalp burned pink while the afternoons fed anorexic evenings and the day?s fluorescence never dimmed; unsure, unripe, unready. Still the pounding rocks her steps as innocents file past her. One hand, one knife, one brother burning somewhere in the city, The man is upstairs, working, or failing at his work and practicing his oaths. But nothing stops the inevitable click of the door that yields to business. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon May 14 11:55:23 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:55:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009601c79640$4e3b9730$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Mendelson's translations with Singleton's books of notes. Six volumes. But I check other translations as well. Mendelson has the Italian and English facing each other, verso-recto, so it's also relatively easy to see what's going on in general terms. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SKEGG at nc.rr.com Mon May 14 12:47:00 2007 From: SKEGG at nc.rr.com (SKEGG at nc.rr.com) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:47:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Which translation of the Divine Comedy to read? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Go to this page and search for Dante and you will find online editions of the Italian, as well as translations by Cary, Norton, and Longfellow.(and editions in German, French and Japanese) While reading Pinsky's Inferno, I enjoyed referring to the Longfellow translation once in a while. sk From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 14 13:05:11 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:05:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski Message-ID: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> Sent to me by Anna Guterl: so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything, don't do it. unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it. if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching for words, don't do it. if you're doing it for money or fame, don't do it. if you're doing it because you want women in your bed, don't do it. if you have to sit there and rewrite it again and again, don't do it. if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, don't do it. if you're trying to write like somebody else, forget about it. if you have to wait for it to roar out of you, then wait patiently. if it never does roar out of you, do something else. if you first have to read it to your wife or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your parents or to anybody at all, you're not ready. don't be like so many writers, don't be like so many thousands of people who call themselves writers, don't be dull and boring and pretentious, don't be consumed with self- love. the libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. don't add to that. don't do it. unless it comes out of your soul like a rocket, unless being still would drive you to madness or suicide or murder, don't do it. unless the sun inside you is burning your gut, don't do it. when it is truly time, and if you have been chosen, it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you. there is no other way. and there never was. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon May 14 13:13:16 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:13:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . Message-ID: <29619E86-3D7E-4999-886F-661BAF3C67D8@earthlink.net> "I placed one word beside another and finally with a great deal of effort managed to create a whole sentence--naturally not one that 'meant something' but one that was composed of word- nuances. It was the hidden meaning that I was seeking--a kind of Alchimie du Verbe. One word has its meaning and another has its own, but when they are brought together something strange happens to them: they have an in-between connotation at the same time as they retain their original individual meanings . . . Poetry is this very tension-filled relationship between the words, between the lines, between meanings." --Gunnar Ekel?f, tr. Auden & Sj?berg Hal "Balthus is a painter about whom nothing is known." --Balthus Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 14 13:32:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:32:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo References: Message-ID: <00c001c7964d$e1dfb090$898d3052@ANNY> a perfect narrative quality, poetic stories. ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo One of the best books, if not the best, ever for beginning and even veteran poets. I usually use several chapters of it for my creative writing classes. This is a poem of Hugo's that in many ways made poetry real for me: Degrees of Gray in Philipsburg You might come here Sunday on a whim. Say your life broke down. The last good kiss you had was years ago. You walk these streets laid out by the insane, past hotels that didn't last, bars that did, the tortured try of local drivers to accelerate their lives. Only churches are kept up. The jail turned 70 this year. The only prisoner is always in, not knowing what he's done. The principal supporting business now is rage. Hatred of the various grays the mountain sends, hatred of the mill, The Silver Bill repeal, the best liked girls who leave each year for Butte. One good restaurant and bars can't wipe the boredom out. The 1907 boom, eight going silver mines, a dance floor built on springs-- all memory resolves itself in gaze, in panoramic green you know the cattle eat or two stacks high above the town, two dead kilns, the huge mill in collapse for fifty years that won't fall finally down. Isn't this your life? That ancient kiss still burning out your eyes? Isn't this defeat so accurate, the church bell simply seems a pure announcement: ring and no one comes? Don't empty houses ring? Are magnesium and scorn sufficient to support a town, not just Philipsburg, but towns of towering blondes, good jazz and booze the world will never let you have until the town you came from dies inside? Say no to yourself. The old man, twenty when the jail was built, still laughs although his lips collapse. Someday soon, he says, I'll go to sleep and not wake up. You tell him no. You're talking to yourself. The car that brought you here still runs. The money you buy lunch with, no matter where it's mined, is silver and the girl who serves your food is slender and her red hair lights the wall. And another: Death of the Kapowsin Tavern I can't ridge it back again from char. Not one board left. Only ash a cat explores and shattered glass smoked black and strung about from the explosion I believe in the reports. The white school up for sale for years, most homes abandoned to the rocks of passing boys--the fire, helped by wind that blew the neon out six years before, simply ended lots of ending. A damn shame. Now, when the night chill of the lake gets in a troller's bones where can the troller go for bad wine washed down frantically with beer? And when wise men are in style again will one recount the two-mile glide of cranes from dead pines or the nameless yellow flowers thriving in the useless logs, or dots of light all night about the far end of the lake, the dawn arrival of the idiot with catfish--most of all, above the lake the temple and our sanctuary there? Nothing dies as slowly as a scene. The dusty jukebox cracking through the cackle of a beered-up crone-- wagered wine--sudden need to dance-- these remain in the black debris. Although I know in time the lake will send wind black enough to blow it all away. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Mon May 14 17:36:15 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:36:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . References: <29619E86-3D7E-4999-886F-661BAF3C67D8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001701c7966f$f05902d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> what a bunch a hooey... respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: & Views Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . "I placed one word beside another and finally with a great deal of effort managed to create a whole sentence--naturally not one that 'meant something' but one that was composed of word- nuances. It was the hidden meaning that I was seeking--a kind of Alchimie du Verbe. One word has its meaning and another has its own, but when they are brought together something strange happens to them: they have an in-between connotation at the same time as they retain their original individual meanings . . . Poetry is this very tension-filled relationship between the words, between the lines, between meanings." --Gunnar Ekel?f, tr. Auden & Sj?berg Hal "Balthus is a painter about whom nothing is known." --Balthus Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Mon May 14 17:40:31 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:40:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere repetition... respectfully lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski Sent to me by Anna Guterl: so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything, don't do it. unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it. if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching for words, don't do it. if you're doing it for money or fame, don't do it. if you're doing it because you want women in your bed, don't do it. if you have to sit there and rewrite it again and again, don't do it. if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, don't do it. if you're trying to write like somebody else, forget about it. if you have to wait for it to roar out of you, then wait patiently. if it never does roar out of you, do something else. if you first have to read it to your wife or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your parents or to anybody at all, you're not ready. don't be like so many writers, don't be like so many thousands of people who call themselves writers, don't be dull and boring and pretentious, don't be consumed with self- love. the libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. don't add to that. don't do it. unless it comes out of your soul like a rocket, unless being still would drive you to madness or suicide or murder, don't do it. unless the sun inside you is burning your gut, don't do it. when it is truly time, and if you have been chosen, it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you. there is no other way. and there never was. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran at gmail.com Mon May 14 17:42:40 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:42:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! On 5/14/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere > repetition... > > respectfully > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* New Poetry > *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski > > Sent to me by Anna Guterl: > > *so you want to be a writer?* > by *Charles Bukowski* > > > if it doesn't come bursting out of you > > in spite of everything, > > don't do it. > > unless it comes unasked out of your > > heart and your mind and your mouth > > and your gut, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit for hours > > staring at your computer screen > > or hunched over your > > typewriter > > searching for words, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it for money or > > fame, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it because you want > > women in your bed, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit there and > > rewrite it again and again, > > don't do it. > > if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, > > don't do it. > > if you're trying to write like somebody > > else, > > forget about it. > > > if you have to wait for it to roar out of > > you, > > then wait patiently. > > if it never does roar out of you, > > do something else. > > if you first have to read it to your wife > > or your girlfriend or your boyfriend > > or your parents or to anybody at all, > > you're not ready. > > don't be like so many writers, > > don't be like so many thousands of > > people who call themselves writers, > > don't be dull and boring and > > pretentious, don't be consumed with self- > > love. > > the libraries of the world have > > yawned themselves to > > sleep > > over your kind. > > don't add to that. > > don't do it. > > unless it comes out of > > your soul like a rocket, > > unless being still would > > drive you to madness or > > suicide or murder, > > don't do it. > > unless the sun inside you is > > burning your gut, > > don't do it. > > when it is truly time, > > and if you have been chosen, > > it will do it by > > itself and it will keep on doing it > > until you die or it dies in you. > > there is no other way. > > and there never was. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - Aldous Huxley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Mon May 14 17:46:09 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:46:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY><003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c79671$4d801920$0201a8c0@LindaSue> you are quite welcome! respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne Baran To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! On 5/14/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere repetition... respectfully lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski Sent to me by Anna Guterl: so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything, don't do it. unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it. if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching for words, don't do it. if you're doing it for money or fame, don't do it. if you're doing it because you want women in your bed, don't do it. if you have to sit there and rewrite it again and again, don't do it. if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, don't do it. if you're trying to write like somebody else, forget about it. if you have to wait for it to roar out of you, then wait patiently. if it never does roar out of you, do something else. if you first have to read it to your wife or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your parents or to anybody at all, you're not ready. don't be like so many writers, don't be like so many thousands of people who call themselves writers, don't be dull and boring and pretentious, don't be consumed with self- love. the libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. don't add to that. don't do it. unless it comes out of your soul like a rocket, unless being still would drive you to madness or suicide or murder, don't do it. unless the sun inside you is burning your gut, don't do it. when it is truly time, and if you have been chosen, it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you. there is no other way. and there never was. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - Aldous Huxley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 14 16:48:43 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:48:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: It's a pretty lame poem, I'd agree, but not for the reason stated. Nothing wrong with repetition, I'd say. After all, Beethoven's Fifth is mostly repetition, and so is Song of Myself . . . . Anyway, here's W. S. Merwin on the same theme, done a bit better, in my opinion. Perhaps because he's channeling Berryman. . . . Berryman I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write -- W.S. Merwin. *Flower & Hand*. Copper Canyon Press. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== On May 14, 2007, at 5:40 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere > repetition... > > respectfully > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: New Poetry > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski > > Sent to me by Anna Guterl: > > so you want to be a writer? > by Charles Bukowski > > > if it doesn't come bursting out of you > > in spite of everything, > > don't do it. > > unless it comes unasked out of your > > heart and your mind and your mouth > > and your gut, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit for hours > > staring at your computer screen > > or hunched over your > > typewriter > > searching for words, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it for money or > > fame, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it because you want > > women in your bed, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit there and > > rewrite it again and again, > > don't do it. > > if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, > > don't do it. > > if you're trying to write like somebody > > else, > > forget about it. > > > > if you have to wait for it to roar out of > > you, > > then wait patiently. > > if it never does roar out of you, > > do something else. > > > if you first have to read it to your wife > > or your girlfriend or your boyfriend > > or your parents or to anybody at all, > > you're not ready. > > > don't be like so many writers, > > don't be like so many thousands of > > people who call themselves writers, > > don't be dull and boring and > > pretentious, don't be consumed with self- > > love. > > the libraries of the world have > > yawned themselves to > > sleep > > over your kind. > > don't add to that. > > don't do it. > > unless it comes out of > > your soul like a rocket, > > unless being still would > > drive you to madness or > > suicide or murder, > > don't do it. > > unless the sun inside you is > > burning your gut, > > don't do it. > > > when it is truly time, > > and if you have been chosen, > > it will do it by > > itself and it will keep on doing it > > until you die or it dies in you. > > > there is no other way. > > > and there never was. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Mon May 14 17:56:20 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:56:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY><003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <005d01c79672$b8d3e0c0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> well, there is repetition, and then there is "mere" repetition... respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski It's a pretty lame poem, I'd agree, but not for the reason stated. Nothing wrong with repetition, I'd say. After all, Beethoven's Fifth is mostly repetition, and so is Song of Myself . . . . Anyway, here's W. S. Merwin on the same theme, done a bit better, in my opinion. Perhaps because he's channeling Berryman. . . . Berryman I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write -- W.S. Merwin. *Flower & Hand*. Copper Canyon Press. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== On May 14, 2007, at 5:40 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere repetition... respectfully lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski Sent to me by Anna Guterl: so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything, don't do it. unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it. if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen or hunched over your typewriter searching for words, don't do it. if you're doing it for money or fame, don't do it. if you're doing it because you want women in your bed, don't do it. if you have to sit there and rewrite it again and again, don't do it. if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, don't do it. if you're trying to write like somebody else, forget about it. if you have to wait for it to roar out of you, then wait patiently. if it never does roar out of you, do something else. if you first have to read it to your wife or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your parents or to anybody at all, you're not ready. don't be like so many writers, don't be like so many thousands of people who call themselves writers, don't be dull and boring and pretentious, don't be consumed with self- love. the libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. don't add to that. don't do it. unless it comes out of your soul like a rocket, unless being still would drive you to madness or suicide or murder, don't do it. unless the sun inside you is burning your gut, don't do it. when it is truly time, and if you have been chosen, it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you. there is no other way. and there never was. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon May 14 17:05:57 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:05:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <005d01c79672$b8d3e0c0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY><003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <005d01c79672$b8d3e0c0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: On May 14, 2007, at 5:56 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > well, there is repetition, and then there is "mere" repetition... > > respectfully, > lsg ================================= You mean, perhaps, something like the following sonnet? Nothing in That Drawer Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Ron Padgett. Great Balls of Fire (Coffee House Press, 1990) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon May 14 18:31:05 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:31:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c101c79677$95cd8fe0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Right. Far from mere, as they say. Padgett's is one of the most instrumental uses of repetition in a poem in terms of meaning. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:06 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski On May 14, 2007, at 5:56 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: well, there is repetition, and then there is "mere" repetition... respectfully, lsg ================================= You mean, perhaps, something like the following sonnet? Nothing in That Drawer Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Ron Padgett. Great Balls of Fire (Coffee House Press, 1990) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Mon May 14 18:42:51 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:42:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY><003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><005d01c79672$b8d3e0c0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <000d01c79679$34829210$0201a8c0@LindaSue> yes, something like that... respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski On May 14, 2007, at 5:56 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: well, there is repetition, and then there is "mere" repetition... respectfully, lsg ================================= You mean, perhaps, something like the following sonnet? Nothing in That Drawer Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Nothing in that drawer. Ron Padgett. Great Balls of Fire (Coffee House Press, 1990) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br Mon May 14 19:05:50 2007 From: ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br (Ana Olinto) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:05:50 -0300 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi Message-ID: <001b01c7967c$6ba19090$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> hi everybody i'm a poetry lover and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto cheers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 14 19:09:52 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:09:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg, DVD Message-ID: <8C964941D119877-B3C-782A@WEBMAIL-DC17.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/review.php?ID=28026 The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg New York Entertainment // Unrated // $34.95 // July 17, 2007 Review by DVD Savant | posted May 11, 2007 | E-mail the Author | Start a Discussion Reviewed by Glenn Erickson Jerry Aronsen's The Life and Times of Allen Ginsberg disc set is one organized documentary augmented by an extensive collection of film material, photos, interviews and other 'historical evidence' relating to the famed Beat Generation poet. The feature-length documentary bearing the disc's title was first released ten years ago and provides a fine introduction to the interior life of this entertaining and unique artist. Hailed as a poetic genius, Allen Ginsberg spent a productive life as both an inspiration and a guiding moral compass for the counterculture. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 15 01:48:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 07:48:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY><003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <005301c796b4$ae7f5a90$19ec3652@ANNY> a more sensitive outlook on the topic. From: David Graham Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:48 PM It's a pretty lame poem, I'd agree, but not for the reason stated. Nothing wrong with repetition, I'd say. After all, Beethoven's Fifth is mostly repetition, and so is Song of Myself . . . . Anyway, here's W. S. Merwin on the same theme, done a bit better, in my opinion. Perhaps because he's channeling Berryman. . . . Berryman I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write -- W.S. Merwin. *Flower & Hand*. Copper Canyon Press. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br Tue May 15 12:48:15 2007 From: ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br (Ana Olinto) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 13:48:15 -0300 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi Message-ID: <001001c79710$d84c52e0$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> hi everybody i'm a poetry lover (sappho, tu fu, baudelaire, rilke, celan, eliot, w.c. williams) and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto cheers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Tue May 15 13:39:51 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:39:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi References: <001001c79710$d84c52e0$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> Message-ID: <001101c79718$0b00ce80$0201a8c0@LindaSue> how many of these do you plan to send? just wondering... respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Ana Olinto To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Cc: Ana Olinto Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:48 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] hi hi everybody i'm a poetry lover (sappho, tu fu, baudelaire, rilke, celan, eliot, w.c. williams) and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto cheers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue May 15 18:27:28 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:27:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <200705142103.l4EL3lit000881@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705142103.l4EL3lit000881@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <2A18C592-11D0-4A40-B925-9B87F66D4667@overdomain.com> CB is advising Proust against writing _A la recherche du temps perdu_, and that we should prefer a literature of post office workers "consumed with self-hatred", minds numbed by alcohol to all subtlety. Sound marketing advice, maybe, in the Age of Television. > Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:05:11 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > > Sent to me by Anna Guterl: > > so you want to be a writer? > by Charles Bukowski > > > if it doesn't come bursting out of you > > ... > don't be like so many writers, > > don't be like so many thousands of > > people who call themselves writers, > > don't be dull and boring and > > pretentious, don't be consumed with self- > > love. > > the libraries of the world have > > yawned themselves to > > sleep > > over your kind. > > don't add to that. > > don't do it. > > unless it comes out of > > your soul like a rocket, > > unless being still would > > drive you to madness or > > suicide or murder, > > don't do it. > From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed May 16 09:53:56 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:53:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] sterile Message-ID: <464B0CF4.9050706@opus40.org> Does anyone remember a quote -- I think it was Lowell, I can't remember who he was talking about -- saying that someone or other came out of that most sterile of environments -- a postwar, cold war, university writers workshop? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 16 12:34:33 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:34:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] sterile References: <464B0CF4.9050706@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00cf01c797d8$15cee840$6aa83852@ANNY> I just received the collected by Lowell, if you wish, just pass by to pick it up... don't know if I am more into bits or into pieces, :-) (found a senile though: Timur Old) From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:53 PM > Does anyone remember a quote -- I think it was Lowell, I can't remember > who he was talking about -- saying that someone or other came out of that > most sterile of environments -- a postwar, cold war, university writers > workshop? > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 16 16:09:20 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:09:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sterile References: 464B0CF4.9050706@opus40.org Message-ID: <002301c797f6$194db320$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Does anyone remember a quote -- I think it was Lowell, I can't remember > who he was talking about -- saying that someone or other came out of that > most sterile of environments -- a postwar, cold war, university writers > workshop? I have no answer for your question, Mole, but it made me think of a related question: is there any environoment that no (genuine) poet ever came out of? --Bob G. From ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br Wed May 16 15:09:30 2007 From: ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br (Ana Olinto) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:09:30 -0300 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi Message-ID: <003701c797ed$bb7c3030$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> hi everybody i'm a poetry lover and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Wed May 16 15:33:00 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:33:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi In-Reply-To: <003701c797ed$bb7c3030$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> References: <003701c797ed$bb7c3030$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> Message-ID: <731bb17a0705161233p5e419e44xcb608978ea6bf338@mail.gmail.com> Do you suppose these messages are somehow automatically generated? Jeff Newberry On 5/16/07, Ana Olinto wrote: > > hi everybody > i'm a poetry lover and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: > > www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed May 16 16:54:11 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:54:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The ideal last scene for HBO's The Sopranos? A writer's field-day. In-Reply-To: <00c001c7964d$e1dfb090$898d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <000001c797fc$60d96080$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> After an episode laced with horrors (like Tony's killing of Christopher), ending with him dying in the hospital surrounded by family, After much weeping &c., he calls AJ, his son to him, and asks AJ to watch over Carmella and Meadow, his mother and sister. Tony also tells AJ to finish college and get a "good future." A.J., a light in his eye, grabs Tony's hand and says, "Don't worry, Dad. I've got it all figured out. I'm going to be a poet!!!" Last shot of series is Tony's death-bed face going from the horror of facing his head with unredeemed sins aplenty to the horror of the future with AJ pathetic existence before him. A very subtle shift, but then, James Gandolfini is good. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 16 17:34:41 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:34:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . In-Reply-To: <001701c7966f$f05902d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <29619E86-3D7E-4999-886F-661BAF3C67D8@earthlink.net> <001701c7966f$f05902d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <8C9661925CF7C6F-1574-6BE3@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> I think Ekelof is on to something. Don't you think that poetry often results from the happenstance of certain 'collocations' of words? That 'third thing', as we often put it, between the meanings of two independent things/words. Not always immediately understood or recognized, but felt or sensed. Like the 'static electricity' that results when one hears an oxymoron, for example. It's not what's in (the meaning) either word that creates the tension, it's that rub of the two words collocated. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: suelin7184 at gmail.com Sent: Mon, 14 May 2007 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . what a bunch a hooey... respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: & Views Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . "I placed one word beside another and finally with a great deal of effort managed to create a whole sentence--naturally not one that 'meant something' but one that was composed of word- nuances. It was the hidden meaning that I was seeking--a kind of Alchimie du Verbe. One word has its meaning and another has its own, but when they are brought together something strange happens to them: they have an in-between connotation at the same time as they retain their original individual meanings . . . Poetry is this very tension-filled relationship between the words, between the lines, between meanings." --Gunnar Ekel?f, tr. Auden & Sj?berg Hal "Balthus is a painter about whom nothing is known." --Balthus Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 16 17:36:51 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:36:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] hi References: <003701c797ed$bb7c3030$0301010a@ana740yl3n3wui> <731bb17a0705161233p5e419e44xcb608978ea6bf338@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002901c79802$511cffc0$6aa83852@ANNY> Jeff, Ana Olinto answered a couple of messages on Poetryetc and added some information to her message on the WOM-PO. Don't know what is wrong here. From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 9:33 PM Do you suppose these messages are somehow automatically generated? Jeff Newberry On 5/16/07, Ana Olinto < ana.olinto.carvalho at terra.com.br> wrote: hi everybody i'm a poetry lover and painter. you can see some of my pictures in: www.interkit.com.br/anaolinto "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 16 21:15:10 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:15:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . References: <29619E86-3D7E-4999-886F-661BAF3C67D8@earthlink.net><001701c7966f$f05902d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> 8C9661925CF7C6F-1574-6BE3@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com Message-ID: <007401c79821$1192e210$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I think Ekelof is on to something. Don't you think that poetry often results from the happenstance of certain 'collocations' of words? That 'third thing', as we often put it, between the meanings of two independent things/words. Not always immediately understood or recognized, but felt or sensed. Like the 'static electricity' that results when one hears an oxymoron, for example. It's not what's in (the meaning) either word that creates the tension, it's that rub of the two words collocated. Finnegan I never saw the post you're responding to, Jim, but I've been writing similarly about haiku at my blog lately--except that it's the "collocation" of images rather than words, for me. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed May 16 23:12:01 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:12:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] sterile In-Reply-To: <002301c797f6$194db320$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: 464B0CF4.9050706@opus40.org <002301c797f6$194db320$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <464BC801.40303@opus40.org> Professional wrestling? Bob Grumman wrote: >> Does anyone remember a quote -- I think it was Lowell, I can't >> remember who he was talking about -- saying that someone or other >> came out of that most sterile of environments -- a postwar, cold war, >> university writers workshop? > > I have no answer for your question, Mole, but it made me think of a > related question: is there any environoment that no (genuine) poet > ever came out of? > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 17 07:52:04 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:52:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fascinatin' Blurbage/Anstett Message-ID: <4C503CA0-5E23-4A8A-B375-22930F0873B1@ripon.edu> One of my favorite poets, Aaron Anstett, has just published his third collection: *Each Place the Body's*, from Ghost Road Press. (http://www.ghostroadpress.com/catalog.htm) In addition to the delights of the poems themselves, the book carries a classic blurb from none other than sometime NewPo Bill Knott: "As this collection shows, Aaron Anstett is writing better poems than I am, so by rights he should be doing blurbs for me, not me for him. In truth that's not much of a recommendation, so forgive the incongruity when I say to you the potential reader that I hope you will enjoy reading this book as much as I did." And here's a poem from the book-- Miguel Hernandez, In Tree, Makes Nightingale Calls for Pablo Neruda for Jim Ciletti Years before, but not so many, jail and dying of lung disease, loneliness, grief, Miguel Hernandez, goat-herder from any village, Spain, familiar with the stinks, scrambles Madrid branches and mimics a bird no larger than his heart for the visiting Chilean whose native climate prevented such songs. ?Hoo-hoo-plip-pflip?? my friend tried to imitate, like clarinet jazz, and eerie, outside a bar in Pueblo, Colorado, after shots of Eastern European, familiar-with-random-death liquor. Vehicles could run on it, that plum brandy, Sli-sli-slivovitz. Miguel Hernandez climbed another tree to be a second nightingale answering and Pablo Neruda listened again to a call so softly mournful Keats might have dreamed it his last, alert minutes. The April 1898 British journal *Birds* claimed, ?They cannot endure captivity, nine-tenths of those caught dying within a month.? Neruda?s *Memoirs* do not say whether Hernandez balanced on his heels, bent his arms triangular, flapped imaginary wings. --Aaron Anstett. *Each Place the Body's*. Ghost Road Press, 2007. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu May 17 09:20:46 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:20:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] sterile In-Reply-To: <464BC801.40303@opus40.org> References: <002301c797f6$194db320$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <464BC801.40303@opus40.org> Message-ID: There's a UK poet who was a professional darts player so anything's possible. On 5/17/07, TheOldMole wrote: > Professional wrestling? > > Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Does anyone remember a quote -- I think it was Lowell, I can't > >> remember who he was talking about -- saying that someone or other > >> came out of that most sterile of environments -- a postwar, cold war, > >> university writers workshop? > > > > I have no answer for your question, Mole, but it made me think of a > > related question: is there any environoment that no (genuine) poet > > ever came out of? > > > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 17 10:16:32 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:16:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C966A51A8316C0-1C00-9E5@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> I ran across this piece yesterday... http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/5911 Richard Hugo?s Constructivist Moment: On The Triggering Town by Joshua Corey Down where the ladders start?that?s where you?ll find the writing workshop of Richard Hugo?s The Triggering Town. More nakedly than any American poet I know of, Hugo writes about the task and function of poetry from a position of sheer abjection. "The self as given is inadequate and will not do"?that statement stands at the core of his disarmingly ad hoc poetics, outlined in chapters with titles like "Assumptions," "Nuts and Bolts," and "Statements of Faith." At first and probably even second glance he looks like an advocate of confession and the unified lyric "I"?not least because he himself is a compulsive confessor. We learn about his traumatic experiences as a World War II bombardier; we overhear English Department infighting and gossip; and between the lines we discover Hugo as a painfully shy, immature, sexually inhibited, passive-aggressive alcoholic. And if this weren?t embarrassing enough, Hugo also implicates the reader in his vision of the poet as awkward failure. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 17 09:21:12 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:21:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Title for your next poem Message-ID: I watched a film last night, and noticed that the ratings disclaimer had a perfectly wonderful phrase, which you should all use right now as the title of a poem. "Brief language." You're welcome. Or has John Ashbery already used it? . . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 17 10:27:28 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:27:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Title for your next poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <464C6650.3090703@opus40.org> BRIEF LANGUAGE **** *** David Graham wrote: > I watched a film last night, and noticed that the ratings disclaimer > had a perfectly wonderful phrase, which you should all use right now > as the title of a poem. > > "Brief language." > > You're welcome. > > Or has John Ashbery already used it? . . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 17 10:30:08 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:30:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . In-Reply-To: <007401c79821$1192e210$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <29619E86-3D7E-4999-886F-661BAF3C67D8@earthlink.net><001701c7966f$f05902d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> 8C9661925CF7C6F-1574-6BE3@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com <007401c79821$1192e210$5efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <8C966A701462332-1C00-AA0@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> Bob, it was a quote posted by Hal....I copied it at the bottom of my post, I think. (I've posted it again below). Yes, from what little I know of tradition haiku, the metaphor as in 'X is Y' or the simile of 'A is like B' is not used in haiku; any mental linkage is created merely by the juxaposition X with Y or A with B, or the collocation of the two. Finnegan Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . "I placed one word beside another and finally with a great deal of effort managed to create a whole sentence--naturally not one that 'meant something' but one that was composed of word- nuances. It was the hidden meaning that I was seeking--a kind of Alchimie du Verbe. One word has its meaning and another has its own, but when they are brought together something strange happens to them: they have an in-between connotation at the same time as they retain their original individual meanings . . . Poetry is this very tension-filled relationship between the words, between the lines, between meanings." --Gunnar Ekel?f, tr. Auden & Sj?berg Hal -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sent: Wed, 16 May 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry is . . . I think Ekelof is on to something. Don't you think that poetry often results from the happenstance of certain 'collocations' of words? That 'third thing', as we often put it, between the meanings of two independent things/words. Not always immediately understood or recognized, but felt or sensed. Like the 'static electricity' that results when one hears an oxymoron, for example. It's not what's in (the meaning) either word that creates the tension, it's that rub of the two words collocated. Finnegan I never saw the post you're responding to, Jim, but I've been writing similarly about haiku at my blog lately--except that it's the "collocation" of images rather than words, for me. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 17 10:31:58 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:31:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo In-Reply-To: <8C966A51A8316C0-1C00-9E5@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C966A51A8316C0-1C00-9E5@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <464C675E.7080404@opus40.org> The self as given is inadequate and will not do The Triggering Town is a Bible for me, but I had missed that gem. I'm going to start using it my creative writing classes, along with the mantra I always give my students: All your thoughts are shallow, all your feelings are banal. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I ran across this piece yesterday... > > http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/5911 > Richard Hugo?s Constructivist Moment: On The Triggering Town > by Joshua Corey > > Down where the ladders start?that?s where you?ll find the writing > workshop of Richard Hugo?s The Triggering Town. More nakedly than any > American poet I know of, Hugo writes about the task and function of > poetry from a position of sheer abjection. "The self as given is > inadequate and will not do"?that statement stands at the core of his > disarmingly ad hoc poetics, outlined in chapters with titles like > "Assumptions," "Nuts and Bolts," and "Statements of Faith." At first > and probably even second glance he looks like an advocate of > confession and the unified lyric "I"?not least because he himself is a > compulsive confessor. We learn about his traumatic experiences as a > World War II bombardier; we overhear English Department infighting and > gossip; and between the lines we discover Hugo as a painfully shy, > immature, sexually inhibited, passive-aggressive alcoholic. And if > this weren?t embarrassing enough, Hugo also implicates the reader in > his vision of the poet as awkward failure. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 17 09:33:46 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Title for your next poem In-Reply-To: <464C6650.3090703@opus40.org> References: <464C6650.3090703@opus40.org> Message-ID: OK, then. How about a mini-anthology of our favorite tiny poems, one- liners and such? I'll start. PREMATURE EJACULATION I'm sorry this poem's already finished. ---William Matthews ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== On May 17, 2007, at 10:27 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > BRIEF LANGUAGE > > **** *** > > > > > David Graham wrote: >> I watched a film last night, and noticed that the ratings >> disclaimer had a perfectly wonderful phrase, which you should all >> use right now as the title of a poem. >> >> "Brief language." >> >> You're welcome. >> >> Or has John Ashbery already used it? . . . . >> >> >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu May 17 10:47:50 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:47:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Title for your next poem In-Reply-To: References: <464C6650.3090703@opus40.org> Message-ID: <464C6B16.8030909@opus40.org> Here's one of mine. Not the shortest poem ever written, but one of the fastest exits. Imagine a plot of land with a woman on it--not haphazardly, but as if planted, and not by you. This woman precedes your imagination. Watch out. She is leaving. David Graham wrote: > OK, then. How about a mini-anthology of our favorite tiny poems, > one-liners and such? > > I'll start. > > PREMATURE EJACULATION > > I'm sorry this poem's already finished. > ---William Matthews > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > On May 17, 2007, at 10:27 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> BRIEF LANGUAGE >> >> **** *** >> >> >> >> >> David Graham wrote: >>> I watched a film last night, and noticed that the ratings disclaimer >>> had a perfectly wonderful phrase, which you should all use right now >>> as the title of a poem. >>> >>> "Brief language." >>> >>> You're welcome. >>> >>> Or has John Ashbery already used it? . . . . >>> >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>> ========================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Thu May 17 10:51:05 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:51:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Title for your next poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <198D5012-95DA-4DBB-AC2E-B8FA2A175A4B@earthlink.net> I think it was Shakespeare: "Out, out, brief language!" Hal "language--the Riviera of consciousness" --Bob Perelman Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 17, 2007, at 8:21 AM, David Graham wrote: > I watched a film last night, and noticed that the ratings > disclaimer had a perfectly wonderful phrase, which you should all > use right now as the title of a poem. > > "Brief language." > > You're welcome. > > Or has John Ashbery already used it? . . . . > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu May 17 09:54:10 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:54:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Title for your next poem In-Reply-To: <464C6B16.8030909@opus40.org> References: <464C6650.3090703@opus40.org> <464C6B16.8030909@opus40.org> Message-ID: Here's one of mine: Tavern Talk The soft wish of a lifted mug. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== On May 17, 2007, at 10:47 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > Here's one of mine. Not the shortest poem ever written, but one of > the fastest exits. > > > Imagine a plot of land > with a woman on it--not > haphazardly, but as if planted, and not > by you. This woman precedes your imagination. > > Watch out. She is leaving. > > David Graham wrote: >> OK, then. How about a mini-anthology of our favorite tiny poems, >> one-liners and such? >> >> I'll start. >> >> PREMATURE EJACULATION >> >> I'm sorry this poem's already finished. >> ---William Matthews >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 17 13:31:40 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:31:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo References: <8C966A51A8316C0-1C00-9E5@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006001c798a9$3ad856e0$3cd83052@ANNY> The book does not have a concluding sentence /paragraph. I reached the bottom of 109 and turned the page to continue and there was nothing. This book is a voice, like someone speaking to you and then he stopped because we had something else to do. And yes, there is no glory but honesty. From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo I ran across this piece yesterday... http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/5911 Richard Hugo?s Constructivist Moment: On The Triggering Town by Joshua Corey Down where the ladders start?that?s where you?ll find the writing workshop of Richard Hugo?s The Triggering Town. More nakedly than any American poet I know of, Hugo writes about the task and function of poetry from a position of sheer abjection. "The self as given is inadequate and will not do"?that statement stands at the core of his disarmingly ad hoc poetics, outlined in chapters with titles like "Assumptions," "Nuts and Bolts," and "Statements of Faith." At first and probably even second glance he looks like an advocate of confession and the unified lyric "I"?not least because he himself is a compulsive confessor. We learn about his traumatic experiences as a World War II bombardier; we overhear English Department infighting and gossip; and between the lines we discover Hugo as a painfully shy, immature, sexually inhibited, passive-aggressive alcoholic. And if this weren?t embarrassing enough, Hugo also implicates the reader in his vision of the poet as awkward failure. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 17 15:00:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:00:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [webartery] New Media Blog editors Message-ID: <00d301c798b5$a264dc50$3cd83052@ANNY> I thought of Bob, but maybe someone else might also be interested in this: ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Sheppard To: webartery at yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 11:23 PM Subject: [webartery] New Media Blog editors I'm not all that new to blogs. I had an online travel journal before blogs became fashionable. I am wondering if others will help me create and edit a blog pertaining to only New Media artists, each blogger paying attention to their own specialty or interests? We can explore, scour, discover and review new sites and artists. We will all be allowed the same freedoms of expression. I believe this is a natural and progressive extension of webartery. This mailing list has a certain historical reference in cyber culture but it is more of a footnote than a full page ad. I think a group blog will fully open up the arena. This is an unfilled void. Let us visit every website, critique it and move on. It can only make us stronger as artists. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! Movies Get famous! Get on the MTV Movie Awards! Yahoo! TV Watch webisodes Get exclusive clips On The Apprentice. Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu May 17 16:32:41 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:32:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Brief Language In-Reply-To: <200705171600.l4HG04is004410@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705171600.l4HG04is004410@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: a run of 4: ONE-LINE POEMS Hot damn new plan * Comes a grassy attitude * No need for clocks to strike thirteen * Bubba Robin tugs her worm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 17 16:59:54 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:59:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Continental Review, VideoPo Message-ID: <8C966DD745B4C4D-9B0-1FF6@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.thecontinentalreview.com/ I predict: the era of video poetics is immanent" - Ezra Pound, 1952 What is "The Continental Review"? Welcome to the Web's first Video Forum for Contemporary Poetry and Poetics. The Continental Review aims to be: (1) A forum for video readings of new poetry (2) A forum for video reviews of new poetry (3) A forum for video interviews on poetics ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 17 17:21:53 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:21:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Woodbury Poetry Room Message-ID: <8C966E0865D9E1D-9B0-2129@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/13/by_harvard_yard_poetrys_secret_garden/ By Harvard Yard, poetry's secret garden By Ellen Steinbaum, Globe Correspondent | May 13, 2007 "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library," the Argentine writer Jorge Luis Borges famously said. Even in these times of immediate online gratification, poetry lovers might feel they have landed in paradise when they enter the Woodberry Poetry Room . Although it is located in Harvard's Lamont Library , the Poetry Room is open to the public with just the flash of a photo ID and a signing of the register. I think of it as a secret garden of poetry: sunlight from Harvard Yard gleaming on mellow burnished wood, history settling around you as you walk in the door. A small display case beside the door contains a changing selection. On a day I visited the exhibited items included a Library Journal article from 1950 on the Woodberry's audio collection and a notebook with, among other entries, a reminder to change three burned-out light bulbs. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Thu May 17 19:06:03 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo In-Reply-To: <8C966A51A8316C0-1C00-9E5@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I really love that book. there's something very pacific northwest about it that i find very appealing in a sort of tribal way. not that i'd ever write the way that he prescribes, but there are some nifty editting tricks in there that re-appropriated for a different kind of poetry than richard hugo wrote produce excellent results. On Thu, 17 May 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I ran across this piece yesterday... > > http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/5911 > Richard Hugo?s Constructivist Moment: On The Triggering Town > by Joshua Corey > > Down where the ladders start?that?s where you?ll find the writing workshop of Richard Hugo?s The Triggering Town. More nakedly than any American poet I know of, Hugo writes about the task and function of poetry from a position of sheer abjection. "The self as given is inadequate and will not do"?that statement stands at the core of his disarmingly ad hoc poetics, outlined in chapters with titles like "Assumptions," "Nuts and Bolts," and "Statements of Faith." At first and probably even second glance he looks like an advocate of confession and the unified lyric "I"?not least because he himself is a compulsive confessor. We learn about his traumatic experiences as a World War II bombardier; we overhear English Department infighting and gossip; and between the lines we discover Hugo as a painfully shy, immature, sexually inhibited, passive-aggressive alcoholic. And if this weren?t embarrassing enough, Hugo also implicates the reader in his vision of the poet as awkward failure. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > From JforJames at aol.com Fri May 18 13:20:15 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:20:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day Message-ID: _http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html) Kenneth Goldsmith-- "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " -- It's the reader's fault--Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Fri May 18 13:45:41 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 12:45:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: Message-ID: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue> "as I poet I don't exist" What does that mean? respectfully, lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html Kenneth Goldsmith-- "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " -- It's the reader's fault--Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 18 13:53:42 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:53:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day In-Reply-To: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <464DE826.2040003@opus40.org> Like the tree falling in the forest.... Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > "as I poet I don't exist" > > What does that mean? > > respectfully, > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > > http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html > > Kenneth Goldsmith-- > "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no > readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice > of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the > writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the > States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of > Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since > then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " > > -- > It's the reader's fault--Finnegan > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri May 18 14:12:22 2007 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:12:22 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, the feel good hit in the summer. I thought Kenny-G had a thinkership, or at least a listenership, through his radio show on WFMU. WFMU was a college radio station in The Oranges (New Jersey), but even when the college went under, the station still existed. For a few years, they used to proudly announce how they broadcasted from a "Ghost Campus." Then, since much of their listening audience was in the NYC metropolitan area, they relocated to Hoboken. I doubt the film would win an academy award, but you never know. Maybe Kenny G., will argue that his DJ existence was not in any way connected with his poet existence.... On May 18, 2007, at 10:20 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html > > Kenneth Goldsmith-- > "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no > readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice > of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the > writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the > States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of > Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since then, > innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " > > -- > It's the reader's fault--Finnegan > > > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri May 18 14:15:28 2007 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:15:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F6533F9-5E00-469D-8059-28A849E21400@earthlink.net> Correction---I meant Jersey City (not Hoboken)..... On May 18, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Ah, the feel good hit in the summer. > > I thought Kenny-G had a thinkership, or at least a listenership, > through his radio show on WFMU. > WFMU was a college radio station in The Oranges (New Jersey), but > even when the college went under, > the station still existed. For a few years, they used to proudly > announce how they broadcasted from a "Ghost Campus." > Then, since much of their listening audience was in the NYC > metropolitan area, they relocated to Hoboken. > I doubt the film would win an academy award, but you never know. > Maybe Kenny G., will argue that his DJ existence was not in any way > connected with his poet existence.... > > On May 18, 2007, at 10:20 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >> >> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " >> >> -- >> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >> >> >> >> >> See what's free at AOL.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 18 14:25:29 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:25:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <464DE826.2040003@opus40.org> Message-ID: <006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> like a drop in a sink like a bit in a network like green when it's green or white when it's white From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM > Like the tree falling in the forest.... > > Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >> "as I poet I don't exist" >> What does that mean? >> respectfully, >> lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >> >> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " >> -- >> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >> >> >> >> From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 18 14:57:33 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:57:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue><464DE826.2040003@opus40.org> <006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: <008201c7997e$64c99510$14e03652@ANNY> I naturally meant _byte_ :-( > like a drop in a sink > like a bit in a network > like green when it's green > or white when it's white > > From: "TheOldMole" > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM > > >> Like the tree falling in the forest.... >> >> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>> "as I poet I don't exist" >>> What does that mean? >>> respectfully, >>> lsg >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >>> >>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. >>> " >>> -- >>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 18 15:26:05 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:26:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: <5F6533F9-5E00-469D-8059-28A849E21400@earthlink.net> References: <5F6533F9-5E00-469D-8059-28A849E21400@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C96799834B6297-1EFC-49B0@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> I'm no Kenneth Goldsmith expert, for sure...but I think him mostly as not a poet but as a conceptual artist. I once wrote in my notebook that I hoped never to be so bored with my life, that I'd actually read any of Kenneth Goldsmith's 'poetry'. Most of it is not really to be read, or I don't think so anyway. It's really his attempt to provoke thinking about what literature is; how text works and doesn't work, etc. Or some of it could be described as 'postmodadaism'. It probably can be said that somewhere toward the end of the 20thC no poets existed outside of their readership by other poets (in or out of the academy). There are exceptions of course: Ginsberg when he was alive, a cultural phenom like Maya Angelou, Billy Collins who raised his sails deftly and high enough to catch the Zeitgeist and cruise outside of the territorial waters of Poets' Island. And there are some unsubstantiated reports of 'common readers' who still attend to poetry. But those folks always remind of the Japanese soldiers who would be found 10, 20, 30 years after the end of hostilities in the Pacific, living rough in caves on a deserted atoll, still awaiting orders from The Emperor to return home. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: cstroffo at earthlink.net Sent: Fri, 18 May 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought Correction---I meant Jersey City (not Hoboken)..... On May 18, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: Ah, the feel good hit in the summer. I thought Kenny-G had a thinkership, or at least a listenership, through his radio show on WFMU. WFMU was a college radio station in The Oranges (New Jersey), but even when the college went under, the station still existed. For a few years, they used to proudly announce how they broadcasted from a "Ghost Campus." Then, since much of their listening audience was in the NYC metropolitan area, they relocated to Hoboken. I doubt the film would win an academy award, but you never know. Maybe Kenny G., will argue that his DJ existence was not in any way connected with his poet existence.... On May 18, 2007, at 10:20 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html Kenneth Goldsmith-- "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " -- It's the reader's fault--Finnegan See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri May 18 15:27:29 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:27:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day In-Reply-To: <008201c7997e$64c99510$14e03652@ANNY> References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <464DE826.2040003@opus40.org> <006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> <008201c7997e$64c99510$14e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60705181227i574df3ebj8f374f17becfa461@mail.gmail.com> As in "byte me"? - Jim On 5/18/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I naturally meant _byte_ > :-( > > > like a drop in a sink > > like a bit in a network > > like green when it's green > > or white when it's white > > > > From: "TheOldMole" > > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM > > > > > >> Like the tree falling in the forest.... > >> > >> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > >>> "as I poet I don't exist" > >>> What does that mean? > >>> respectfully, > >>> lsg > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com > >>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM > >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > >>> > >>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html > >>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- > >>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no > >>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice > >>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the > >>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the > >>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of > >>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since > >>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. > >>> " > >>> -- > >>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From skip at louisiana.edu Fri May 18 15:56:59 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: <8C96799834B6297-1EFC-49B0@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c79986$b8230a40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to capture every movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a fiction of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. During the book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own recording, takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to read . . . it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet one who is pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:26 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought I'm no Kenneth Goldsmith expert, for sure...but I think him mostly as not a poet but as a conceptual artist. I once wrote in my notebook that I hoped never to be so bored with my life, that I'd actually read any of Kenneth Goldsmith's 'poetry'. Most of it is not really to be read, or I don't think so anyway. It's really his attempt to provoke thinking about what literature is; how text works and doesn't work, etc. Or some of it could be described as 'postmodadaism'. It probably can be said that somewhere toward the end of the 20thC no poets existed outside of their readership by other poets (in or out of the academy). There are exceptions of course: Ginsberg when he was alive, a cultural phenom like Maya Angelou, Billy Collins who raised his sails deftly and high enough to catch the Zeitgeist and cruise outside of the territorial waters of Poets' Island. And there are some unsubstantiated reports of 'common readers' who still attend to poetry. But those folks always remind of the Japanese soldiers who would be found 10, 20, 30 years after the end of hostilities in the Pacific, living rough in caves on a deserted atoll, still awaiting orders from The Emperor to return home. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: cstroffo at earthlink.net Sent: Fri, 18 May 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought Correction---I meant Jersey City (not Hoboken)..... On May 18, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: Ah, the feel good hit in the summer. I thought Kenny-G had a thinkership, or at least a listenership, through his radio show on WFMU. WFMU was a college radio station in The Oranges (New Jersey), but even when the college went under, the station still existed. For a few years, they used to proudly announce how they broadcasted from a "Ghost Campus." Then, since much of their listening audience was in the NYC metropolitan area, they relocated to Hoboken. I doubt the film would win an academy award, but you never know. Maybe Kenny G., will argue that his DJ existence was not in any way connected with his poet existence.... On May 18, 2007, at 10:20 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html Kenneth Goldsmith-- "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " -- It's the reader's fault--Finnegan _____ See what's free at AOL.com . _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Fri May 18 16:55:32 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:55:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <464DE826.2040003@opus40.org> Message-ID: <000e01c7998e$e0e888d0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> No, doesn't he mean "as a poet I don't exist" -- maybe just a typo, but with some poets you never know... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > Like the tree falling in the forest.... > > Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >> "as I poet I don't exist" >> >> What does that mean? >> >> respectfully, >> lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >> >> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >> >> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " >> >> -- >> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> See what's free at AOL.com >> . >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 at gmail.com Fri May 18 16:56:25 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:56:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue><464DE826.2040003@opus40.org> <006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: <001201c7998e$fff572b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> like I drop in the sink like I bit in a network ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > like a drop in a sink > like a bit in a network > like green when it's green > or white when it's white > > From: "TheOldMole" > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM > > >> Like the tree falling in the forest.... >> >> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>> "as I poet I don't exist" >>> What does that mean? >>> respectfully, >>> lsg >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >>> >>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. >>> " >>> -- >>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From suelin7184 at gmail.com Fri May 18 16:57:08 2007 From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:57:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue><464DE826.2040003@opus40.org><006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> <008201c7997e$64c99510$14e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: <001601c7998f$19ea3160$0201a8c0@LindaSue> like I byte in a network... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > > I naturally meant _byte_ > :-( > >> like a drop in a sink >> like a bit in a network >> like green when it's green >> or white when it's white >> >> From: "TheOldMole" >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM >> >> >>> Like the tree falling in the forest.... >>> >>> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>>> "as I poet I don't exist" >>>> What does that mean? >>>> respectfully, >>>> lsg >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >>>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >>>> >>>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >>>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >>>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >>>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >>>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. >>>> " >>>> -- >>>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri May 18 17:01:15 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:01:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: <8C96799834B6297-1EFC-49B0@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> References: <5F6533F9-5E00-469D-8059-28A849E21400@earthlink.net> <8C96799834B6297-1EFC-49B0@MBLK-M41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <464E141B.7050301@opus40.org> Or, to some extent, Donald Hall and Ted Hughes, both for the same reason. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I'm no Kenneth Goldsmith expert, for sure...but I think him mostly as > not a poet but as a conceptual artist. I once wrote in my notebook > that I hoped never to be so bored with my life, that I'd actually read > any of Kenneth Goldsmith's 'poetry'. Most of it is not really to be > read, or I don't think so anyway. It's really his attempt to provoke > thinking about what literature is; how text works and doesn't work, > etc. Or some of it could be described as 'postmodadaism'. > > It probably can be said that somewhere toward the end of the 20thC no > poets existed outside of their readership by other poets (in or out of > the academy). There are exceptions of course: Ginsberg when he was > alive, a cultural phenom like Maya Angelou, Billy Collins who raised > his sails deftly and high enough to catch the Zeitgeist and cruise > outside of the territorial waters of Poets' Island. And there are some > unsubstantiated reports of 'common readers' who still attend to > poetry. But those folks always remind of the Japanese soldiers who > would be found 10, 20, 30 years after the end of hostilities in > the Pacific, living rough in caves on a deserted atoll, still awaiting > orders from The Emperor to return home. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cstroffo at earthlink.net > Sent: Fri, 18 May 2007 2:15 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > Correction---I meant Jersey City (not Hoboken)..... > > On May 18, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > >> Ah, the feel good hit in the summer. >> >> I thought Kenny-G had a thinkership, or at least a listenership, >> through his radio show on WFMU. >> WFMU was a college radio station in The Oranges (New Jersey), but >> even when the college went under, >> the station still existed. For a few years, they used to proudly >> announce how they broadcasted from a "Ghost Campus." >> Then, since much of their listening audience was in the NYC >> metropolitan area, they relocated to Hoboken. >> I doubt the film would win an academy award, but you never know. >> Maybe Kenny G., will argue that his DJ existence was not in any way >> connected with his poet existence.... >> >> On May 18, 2007, at 10:20 AM, JforJames at aol.com >> wrote: >> >>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>> >>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since then, >>> innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. " >>> >>> -- >>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> See what's free at AOL.com >>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From skip at louisiana.edu Fri May 18 17:23:37 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 16:23:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day In-Reply-To: <001601c7998f$19ea3160$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <000701c79992$d264ba00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> like I not in a bitemark -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Sue Grimes Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:57 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day like I byte in a network... lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > > I naturally meant _byte_ > :-( > >> like a drop in a sink >> like a bit in a network >> like green when it's green >> or white when it's white >> >> From: "TheOldMole" >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM >> >> >>> Like the tree falling in the forest.... >>> >>> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>>> "as I poet I don't exist" >>>> What does that mean? >>>> respectfully, >>>> lsg >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >>>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >>>> >>>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >>>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >>>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >>>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >>>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. >>>> " >>>> -- >>>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 18 18:28:00 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 00:28:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue><464DE826.2040003@opus40.org><006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> <001201c7998e$fff572b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <002101c7999b$cdcdddb0$14e03652@ANNY> great work: like I green in the green like I white in the white From: "Linda Sue Grimes" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:56 PM > like I drop in the sink > like I bit in a network > ... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anny Ballardini" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day > > >> like a drop in a sink >> like a bit in a network >> like green when it's green >> or white when it's white >> >> From: "TheOldMole" >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM >> >> >>> Like the tree falling in the forest.... >>> >>> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>>> "as I poet I don't exist" >>>> What does that mean? >>>> respectfully, >>>> lsg >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >>>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >>>> >>>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have almost no >>>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a choice >>>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm reception of >>>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >>>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the academy. >>>> " >>>> -- >>>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >>>> From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri May 18 18:36:41 2007 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:36:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day In-Reply-To: <002101c7999b$cdcdddb0$14e03652@ANNY> References: <000f01c79974$5b532460$0201a8c0@LindaSue><464DE826.2040003@opus40.org><006d01c79979$ea118de0$14e03652@ANNY> <001201c7998e$fff572b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <002101c7999b$cdcdddb0$14e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: sweets for my sweet cracker for my cracker On May 18, 2007, at 3:28 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > great work: > like I green in the green > like I white in the white > > From: "Linda Sue Grimes" > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:56 PM > > >> like I drop in the sink >> like I bit in a network >> ... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" >> >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >> >> >>> like a drop in a sink >>> like a bit in a network >>> like green when it's green >>> or white when it's white >>> >>> From: "TheOldMole" >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:53 PM >>> >>> >>>> Like the tree falling in the forest.... >>>> >>>> Linda Sue Grimes wrote: >>>>> "as I poet I don't exist" >>>>> What does that mean? >>>>> respectfully, >>>>> lsg >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com >>>>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM >>>>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Sad Thought Of The Day >>>>> >>>>> http://poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2007/05/the_academy.html >>>>> Kenneth Goldsmith-- >>>>> "Without the academy, as I poet I don't exist. I have >>>>> almost no >>>>> readership (thinkership) outside the academy. This is not a >>>>> choice >>>>> of mine: it's is a condition that preceded my arrival onto the >>>>> writing scene, fostered by numerous cultural conditions in the >>>>> States -- primarily by the precedent set by the warm >>>>> reception of >>>>> Language Poetry by the academy in the 80s. As a result, since >>>>> then, innovative or experimental writing lives only in the >>>>> academy. " >>>>> -- >>>>> It's the reader's fault--Finnegan >>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ccooley at overdomain.com Fri May 18 21:31:11 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:31:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: <200705182010.l4IKAdit032408@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705182010.l4IKAdit032408@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <41C22CDD-F37E-47B1-9A55-9C7F87CDCF81@overdomain.com> My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't have to make it. Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. Cris > Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to > capture every > movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a > fiction > of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. > During the > book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own > recording, > takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed > word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to > read . . . > it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet > one who is > pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. > > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 19 01:40:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 07:40:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fascinatin' Blurbage/Anstett References: <4C503CA0-5E23-4A8A-B375-22930F0873B1@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <003101c799d8$2ea5ec40$f08f3052@ANNY> Even if he is openly compromising at the end, Bill Knott is Bill Knott even in a short blurb. From: David Graham Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:52 PM One of my favorite poets, Aaron Anstett, has just published his third collection: *Each Place the Body's*, from Ghost Road Press. (http://www.ghostroadpress.com/catalog.htm) In addition to the delights of the poems themselves, the book carries a classic blurb from none other than sometime NewPo Bill Knott: "As this collection shows, Aaron Anstett is writing better poems than I am, so by rights he should be doing blurbs for me, not me for him. In truth that's not much of a recommendation, so forgive the incongruity when I say to you the potential reader that I hope you will enjoy reading this book as much as I did." And here's a poem from the book-- Miguel Hernandez, In Tree, Makes Nightingale Calls for Pablo Neruda for Jim Ciletti Years before, but not so many, jail and dying of lung disease, loneliness, grief, Miguel Hernandez, goat-herder from any village, Spain, familiar with the stinks, scrambles Madrid branches and mimics a bird no larger than his heart for the visiting Chilean whose native climate prevented such songs. ?Hoo-hoo-plip-pflip?? my friend tried to imitate, like clarinet jazz, and eerie, outside a bar in Pueblo, Colorado, after shots of Eastern European, familiar-with-random-death liquor. Vehicles could run on it, that plum brandy, Sli-sli-slivovitz. Miguel Hernandez climbed another tree to be a second nightingale answering and Pablo Neruda listened again to a call so softly mournful Keats might have dreamed it his last, alert minutes. The April 1898 British journal *Birds* claimed, ?They cannot endure captivity, nine-tenths of those caught dying within a month.? Neruda?s *Memoirs* do not say whether Hernandez balanced on his heels, bent his arms triangular, flapped imaginary wings. --Aaron Anstett. *Each Place the Body's*. Ghost Road Press, 2007. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Sat May 19 12:05:06 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought In-Reply-To: <41C22CDD-F37E-47B1-9A55-9C7F87CDCF81@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as yours. I'm glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I reached out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available on the web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came this spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing for long, so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading was only interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not convinced they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of sensible groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always orchestrated. Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to warrant a thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future which is surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman Cooley Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't have to make it. Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. Cris > Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to > capture every > movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a > fiction > of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. > During the > book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own > recording, > takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed > word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to > read . . . > it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet > one who is > pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From barry.spacks at verizon.net Sat May 19 13:10:08 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:10:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a word to my friend Crisman In-Reply-To: <200705191600.l4JG05is015562@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705191600.l4JG05is015562@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <1C8D78A5-6931-48C4-B614-1E528CAFED8F@verizon.net> On May 19, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work > that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply > accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't > have to make it. Not "Is the Emperor clothed?" but is he the Emperor? lost in the soup, Barry From amparker at davidson.edu Sat May 19 16:09:37 2007 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:09:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kenneth Goldsmith Message-ID: Here's my take on Kenneth Goldsmith: He and I were in Cub Scouts together in 1970. I was kicked out of the troop, although I still remember the Creed. For approximately three years, from 1970-1974, we were in Kinder Shule together, a secular extracurricular school for Jewish kids whose parents were atheists. Our meetings were held in the Friends Meeting House in Manhasset, NY, next to an outlet of the Princeton Ski Shop. When our parents see each other in our hometown, still, they compare notes. Clearly, I'm biased. - AMP From skip at louisiana.edu Sat May 19 16:49:48 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:49:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kenneth Goldsmith In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c79a57$43883260$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Kicked out of Cub Scouts!!! You beat me. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Parker, Alan Michael Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 3:10 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Kenneth Goldsmith Here's my take on Kenneth Goldsmith: He and I were in Cub Scouts together in 1970. I was kicked out of the troop, although I still remember the Creed. For approximately three years, from 1970-1974, we were in Kinder Shule together, a secular extracurricular school for Jewish kids whose parents were atheists. Our meetings were held in the Friends Meeting House in Manhasset, NY, next to an outlet of the Princeton Ski Shop. When our parents see each other in our hometown, still, they compare notes. Clearly, I'm biased. - AMP _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ccooley at overdomain.com Sun May 20 10:39:13 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 09:39:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <200705191600.l4JG05it015562@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705191600.l4JG05it015562@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <363A0E1D-F969-4A88-989E-7488CD5EC941@overdomain.com> I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as time allows. Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of "factual" media. In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. Here are some examples: 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm sure hard to henna now, mess around. 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that we bought today. 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. 124. Life in the Bat Plane. 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. 203. Hit me with your pet shark. 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. 350. Little goose poop. 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your fingers, then blame it on me. 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. > > Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as > yours. I'm > glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I > reached > out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available > on the > web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came > this > spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of > self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him > closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). > > I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich > nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing > for long, > so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading > was only > interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not > convinced > they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of > sensible > groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always > orchestrated. > > Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to > warrant a > thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to > attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future > which is > surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman > Cooley > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered > "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the > readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, > the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that > Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in > Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work > that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply > accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't > have to make it. > > Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and > thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you > were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you > were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the > media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. > > Cris > > >> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >> capture every >> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >> fiction >> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >> During the >> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >> recording, >> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >> read . . . >> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >> one who is >> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >> >> > > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 20 11:07:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:07:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <200705191600.l4JG05it015562@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <363A0E1D-F969-4A88-989E-7488CD5EC941@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <005f01c79af0$99f3aaa0$cfa83852@ANNY> Cris, if you wish Boek sent "I" for the Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1941 From: "Crisman Cooley" Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 4:39 PM >I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted > to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's > _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece > of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as > time allows. > > Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I > read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a > 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 > minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, > two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, > the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as > can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. > Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and > perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element > is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp > signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate > choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor > of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important > artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, > pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that > leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he > provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have > tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, > glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point > where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember > picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It > is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models > lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This > "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) > were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or > style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of > "factual" media. > > In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from > Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing > from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- > mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly > recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. > Here are some examples: > > 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. > 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama > don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. > 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. > 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. > 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. > 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm > sure hard to henna now, mess around. > 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. > 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that > we bought today. > 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves > back to the garden. > 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. > 124. Life in the Bat Plane. > 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. > 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. > 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. > 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. > 203. Hit me with your pet shark. > 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. > 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. > 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. > 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. > 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. > 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. > 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. > 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. > 350. Little goose poop. > 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. > 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. > 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. > 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. > 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. > 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. > 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. > 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your > fingers, then blame it on me. > 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > > > > > > >> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" >> Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" >> >> Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. >> >> Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as >> yours. I'm >> glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I >> reached >> out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available >> on the >> web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came >> this >> spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of >> self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him >> closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). >> >> I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich >> nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing >> for long, >> so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading >> was only >> interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not >> convinced >> they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of >> sensible >> groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always >> orchestrated. >> >> Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to >> warrant a >> thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to >> attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future >> which is >> surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman >> Cooley >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered >> "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the >> readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, >> the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that >> Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in >> Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work >> that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply >> accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't >> have to make it. >> >> Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and >> thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you >> were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you >> were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the >> media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. >> >> Cris >> >> >>> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >>> From: "Skip Fox" >>> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>> >>> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >>> capture every >>> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >>> fiction >>> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >>> During the >>> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >>> recording, >>> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >>> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >>> read . . . >>> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >>> one who is >>> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >>> >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From editor at pavementsaw.org Sun May 20 13:24:07 2007 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 10:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] large volumes of words In-Reply-To: <200705201600.l4KG04is032736@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <665283.62565.qm@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Skip-- Leftwich is good, _Doubt_ is the book that comes to mind as the one you might be referring to. The pay off is, as you say, "ready" but the duration I found not to last as long as Bok's Crystallography. I would suggest an even further iteration, to Ivan Arguelles _Madonna Septet_. It is a two volume monster length poem but works in a "thermodynamic" way but different in that this one is comparable to thermodynamism in water. The word surface is agreeable but on further read breaks into the strands that are warmer and cooler as can be seen when looking in illumination. Like Melville's kenning, "whale-road," the surface path to take to the depths depends on your interest as a being. Unlike Leftwich, or Gannick, or Andrews or so on, the attempt is not to wash one away with words as a way to hope to mold a clean slate, a fresh palate, and to tincture the connotative value but rather to take the current values so the bent of meaning, and potential meaning-- (future meaning even)-- becomes clearer. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun May 20 14:47:03 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] PLG Arts this WEDNESDAY - 4/23 In-Reply-To: <000001c797fc$60d96080$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <127527.96404.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> PLG Arts Poetry Night Join us on the fourth Wednesday of each month for readings by neighborhood poets and the chance to read your own poetry at our Poetry/Open Mic Night! Featuring: Todd Colby Amy King Ray Pospisil Wednesday, May 23 at 6:30 p.m. Sign up for Open Mic begins at 6:00 p.m. K-Dog & Dunebuggy 43 Lincoln Road Brooklyn, NY 11225 (718) 282-7139 (Prospect Park on the Q) Todd Colby is the author of Riot in the Charm Factory: New and Selected Work (Soft Skull Press) and more recently, Tremble & Shine (Soft Skull Press) and the editor of Heights of the Marvelous: A New York Anthology (St. Martin's Press). He was the lyricist and vocalist for the now-legendary band Drunken Boat. He keeps a blog at http://gleefarm.blogspot.com Amy King lives in Brooklyn, NY, and is the author of the poetry collections, I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU (BlazeVOX Books, 2007), ANTIDOTES FOR AN ALIBI (BlazeVOX Books, 2005), and THE PEOPLE INSTRUMENTS (Pavement Saw Press, 2003). She teaches Creative Writing and English at SUNY Nassau Community College and is the editor-in-chief for the literary arts journal, MiPOesias, and is an interview correspondent for miPOradio. Please visit http://www.amyking.org for more. Ray Pospisil grew up outside New York City and has been writing poetry since his youth. He is a strong advocate of poetry as a verbal, performing (and listening) art, and he appears in various clubs around the city. Ray usually writes in formal meter, sometimes with rhyme, but in a colloquial voice. He rejects the notion that formal poetry must focus on Greek gods and flowers, or that it can only articulate conservative political and social views. Ray's work has been published by several journals, including The Lyric, Iambs & Trochees, The Newport Review and on The Rogue Scholars Collective web site. He works as a freelance journalist, covering energy and environmental issues. http://www.plgarts.org/home.htm For more information email carla_drysdale at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Give spam the boot. Take control with tough spam protection in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Sun May 20 15:48:00 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:48:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: a word to my friend Crisman (Barry Spacks) In-Reply-To: <200705201600.l4KG04it032736@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705201600.l4KG04it032736@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <66A0462D-2626-4FB6-9457-43E1F0B0C1B4@overdomain.com> Yes, yes, Barry. And not only 'is he the Emperor?' but 'doesn't my thinking make him so?' In this same way whether I consider myself a poet is irrelevant; it only matters whether you do. The self-proclaimed Emperors are the nakedest kind. > Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:10:08 -0700 > From: Barry Spacks > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: a word to my friend Crisman > > > On May 19, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work >> that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply >> accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't >> have to make it. > > Not "Is the Emperor clothed?" but > is he the Emperor? > > lost in the soup, > > Barry > > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun May 20 17:59:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:59:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Serra Message-ID: <000a01c79b2a$1ab01eb0$f38d3052@ANNY> See Richard Serra: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/arts/20070520_SERRA_FEATURE/blocker.html Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 21 10:57:25 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:57:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] GALATEA RESURRECTS #6 IS OUT! Message-ID: <004701c79bb8$57fc2aa0$1a8f3052@ANNY> GALATEA RESURRECTS #6 IS OUT! We are pleased to release Galatea Resurrects #6 (A Poetry Engagement). The issue may be accessed at _http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com_ (http://galatearesurrection6.blogspot.com/) Information on sending review copies and submitting reviews is available in Galatea's Purse at _http://grarchives.blogspot.com_ (http://grarchives.blogspot.com/) Review submission deadline for the next issue is Aug. 5, 2007. (Please note, too, our special section "From Offline to Online" which reprints poetry reviews first published by print magazines or now-defunct websites so that they are not yet online.) Galatea is an all-volunteer operation, so THANK YOU so much to the volunteer reviewers! For convenience, this issue's Table of Contents is replicated below. Happy Reading, Eileen Tabios ======= CONTENTS EDITOR'S INTRODUCTION By Eileen Tabios NEW REVIEWS Brenda Iijima reviews CONCORDANCE by Mei-mei Berssenbruge with art by Kiki Smith J.O. LeClerc reviews LUNCH POEMS by Frank O'Hara John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews INSTAN by Cecilia Vicuna Monica Fawn reviews CHANCE by Daniel Becker James Owens reviews BORN IN UTOPIA: AN ANTHOLOGY OF MODERN AND CONTEMPORARY ROMANIAN POETRY, Edited by Carmen Firan and Paul Doru Mugur with Edward Foster Tim Peterson reviews NO APPOINTMENT NECESSARY by Thomas Fink Andrea Baker reviews NECESSARY STRANGER by Graham Foust Theresa Tensuan reviews UPROCK HEADSPIN SCRAMBLE AND DIVE and AMERICAN KUNDIMAN by Patrick Rosal Tyrone Williams reviews NEGATIVITY by Jocelyn Saidenberg Ivy Alvarez reviews UNBOUND & BRANDED by Christine Stewart-Nu?ez Eileen Tabios reviews POET'S BOOKSHELF: CONTEMPORARY POETS ON BOOKS THAT SHAPED THEIR ART Edited by Peter Davis Chris Pusateri reviews PICTURE OF THE BASKET by Sarah Mangold and NEW COURIERS by Dana Ward Eileen Tabios-and Denise Levertov-review IN A DYBBUK'S RAINCOAT: COLLECTED POEMS BY BERT MEYERS Edited by Morton Marcus and Daniel Meyers Patrick James Dunagan reviews ABSURD GOOD NEWS by Julien Poirier William Allegrezza reviews EMPTIED OF ALL SHIPS by Stacy Szymaszek Alexander Dickow reviews THE BIRD HOVERER by Aaron Belz Thomas Fink reviews I'M THE MAN WHO LOVES YOU by Amy King Lisa Factora-Borders reviews A SLICE OF CHERRY PIE Edited by Ivy Alvarez Alexander Dickow reviews FLOWERS OF BAD: A FALSE TRANSLATION OF CHARLES BAUDELAIRE'S LES FLEURS DU MAL by David Cameron Eileen Tabios reviews WALKING THEORY by Stephen Vincent Celia Homesley reviews ORIGINAL GREEN by Patricia Carlin Eileen Tabios reviews THE IMMACULATE AUTOPSY by Todd Melicker John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews BRAIDED RIVER: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS 1965-2005 and GUESTS OF SPACE by Anselm Hollo Willilam Allegrezza reviews WATCHWORD by William Fuller Monica Fawn reviews BETWEEN THE ROOM AND THE CITY by Erica Bernheim Eileen Tabios reviews FORTY-FIVE by Frieda Hughes Laurel Johnson reviews SKIRT FULL OF BLACK by Sun Yung Shin Pamela Hart reviews CASE SENSITIVE by Kate Greenstreet Eileen Tabios reviews THE JUROR by George Dawes Green John Bloomberg-Rissman reviews A STRANGE ARRANGEMENT: NEW AND SELECTED POEMS by C.J. Allen Frank Gampietro reviews THE HUMBLE TRAVELOGUES OF MR. IAN WORTHINGTON (WRITTEN FROM LAND AND SEA) by Sandra Simonds Derek Motion reviews PEEL ME A ZIBIBBO by Pam Brown Ernesto Priego reviews MORTAL by Ivy Alvarez Jeannine Hall Gailey reviews MORTAL by Ivy Alvarez Eileen Tabios reviews WHAT'S THE MATTER by Jordan Stempleman Addie Tsai reviews THE POETRY OF ROBERT FROST: THE COLLECTED POEMS, COMPLETE AND UNABRIDGED Edited by Edward Connery, COLLECTED POEMS 1948-1984 by Derek Walcott, and WHAT THE TWILIGHT SAYS: ESSAYS BY DEREK WALCOTT Eileen Tabios reviews LITTLE WAR MACHINE by M Sarki Kristin Berkey-Abbott reviews BECOMING THE VILLAINESS by Jeannine Hall Gailey Ivy Alvarez reviews from A BANNER YEAR by Kate Colby Eileen Tabios reviews PARTS OF THE JOURNAL: NIGHT by Richard Lopez Julie R. Enszer reviews FALLING INTO VELAZQUEZ by Mary Kaiser William A. Sylvester reviews SOMEHOW by Burt Kimmelman Eileen Tabios reviews POETRY DAILY ESSENTIALS 2007 Edited by Diane Boller and Don Selby Julie R. Enszer reviews THE GREAT CANOPY by Paula Goldman Fionna Donney Simmonds reviews THE TAR PIT DIATOMS by Sandra Simonds, OTAGES by John Bloomberg-Rissman, and ISHMAEL AMONG THE BUSHES by William Allegrezza Rebecca Mabanglo-Mayor reviews KOOL LOGIC: LA LOGICA KOOL by Urayoan Noel Laurel Johnson reviews WHITHER NONSTOPPING by Harriet Zinnes Mark Young reviews THE BEAUTIFUL DAYS by A.B. Spellman Sandy McIntosh reviews SAINTS OF HYSTERIA, A HALF-CENTURY OF COLLABORATIVE AMERICAN POETRY, Edited by Denise Duhamel, Maureen Seaton, and David Trinidad Appendix Article to Review of SAINTS OF HYSTERIA: "Filmmaking with Norman Mailer and Ilya Bolotowsky" by Sandy McIntosh FEATURE ARTICLES Nicholas Manning on "A Worldly Country by Young Up-And-Comer John Ashbery " "'The Hairy Caterpillar': An Exploration of Image" by Addie Tsai FROM OFFLINE TO ONLINE: REPRINTED REVIEWS Joyelle McSweeney reviews LILYFOIL + 3 and CHANTRY by Elizabeth Treadwell Craig Perez reviews COMPOSITE. DIPLOMACY. by Padcha Tuntha-Obas Thomas Fink reviews THE AFTER-DEATH HISTORY OF MY MOTHER by Sandy McIntosh Eileen Tabios reviews CORNUCOPIA by Jukka-Pekka Kervinen BACK COVER Self-Explanatory -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon May 21 11:47:51 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Friday -- SHOCKLEY, OAKES, and PARKER In-Reply-To: <004701c79bb8$57fc2aa0$1a8f3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <508153.37580.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents *** EVIE SHOCKLEY * KAYA OAKES * KARL PARKER *** Friday, May 25, 2007 7:00 PM Stain Bar 766 Grand Street Brooklyn, New York 11211 ~~~~ EVIE SHOCKLEY is the author of two poetry collections: a half-red sea (2006) and The Gorgon Goddess (2001), both with Carolina Wren Press. Her work appears as well in numerous journals and anthologies. A Cave Canem fellow and the recipient of a residency at Hedgebrook retreat center for women writers, Shockley teaches African American literature and creative writing at Rutgers University, New Brunswick. http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/editorial.html KAYA OAKES? collection of poetry, Telegraph, was the recipient of the Transcontinental Poetry Prize (editor?s choice) from Pavement Saw Press. Her poems have previously appeared in Volt, Conduit, Spinning Jenny, Shampoo, and numerous other publications. She teaches writing at the University of California, Berkeley, and is the poetry editor and senior editor of Kitchen Sink Magazine. She also hosts Telegraph Stories, a quarterly creative nonfiction and music series. Her website is http://www.oakestown.org. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/oakes_kaya.html KARL PARKER teaches literature and creative writing at Hobart & William Smith Colleges, in lacustrine Geneva, NY. His poems have appeared in numerous journals, such as Fence, Seneca Review, MiPOesias, and No Tell Motel. He has published a chapbook, HARMSTORM, with Lame House Press. http://www.mipoesias.com/Volume19Issue2/parkerinterview.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Hope to see you there! Amy King MiPO Host http://www.mipoesias.com ~~~ MAP --> http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/169889/ --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Mon May 21 12:55:15 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:55:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <200705201600.l4KG04it032736@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705201600.l4KG04it032736@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Thanks Anny! > Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:07:36 +0200 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > > Cris, if you wish Boek sent "I" for the Corner: > http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1941 > From skip at louisiana.edu Mon May 21 13:19:37 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:19:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <363A0E1D-F969-4A88-989E-7488CD5EC941@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <000001c79bcc$3b3214c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Lovely post. I can only e-mail New Poetry from my office, but I've appreciated it for a day. Your readings are illuminating, especially for those of us unwilling to wade through a lot of this, yet who are glad the work was done and gratified when someone like yourself provides such sight. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman Cooley Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as time allows. Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of "factual" media. In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. Here are some examples: 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm sure hard to henna now, mess around. 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that we bought today. 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. 124. Life in the Bat Plane. 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. 203. Hit me with your pet shark. 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. 350. Little goose poop. 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your fingers, then blame it on me. 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. > > Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as > yours. I'm > glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I > reached > out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available > on the > web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came > this > spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of > self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him > closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). > > I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich > nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing > for long, > so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading > was only > interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not > convinced > they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of > sensible > groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always > orchestrated. > > Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to > warrant a > thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to > attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future > which is > surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman > Cooley > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered > "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the > readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, > the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that > Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in > Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work > that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply > accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't > have to make it. > > Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and > thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you > were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you > were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the > media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. > > Cris > > >> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >> capture every >> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >> fiction >> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >> During the >> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >> recording, >> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >> read . . . >> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >> one who is >> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From skip at louisiana.edu Mon May 21 13:27:11 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:27:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <363A0E1D-F969-4A88-989E-7488CD5EC941@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Meant to mention 2 other Goldsmith observations of others. Clai Rice, one of the linguists in our department and deeply into experimental poetry, found it fascinating when he heard Goldsmith say in an interview (on retyping an entire issue of the New York Times) that it became increasingly difficult to write what was directly before him on the page. His mind, he said, wanted ever more to deviate, to become creative. Christian Bok said that he thinks Goldsmith is the premier poet of his generation. Hmmmm. (That's _my_ observation.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman Cooley Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as time allows. Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of "factual" media. In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. Here are some examples: 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm sure hard to henna now, mess around. 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that we bought today. 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. 124. Life in the Bat Plane. 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. 203. Hit me with your pet shark. 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. 350. Little goose poop. 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your fingers, then blame it on me. 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. > > Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as > yours. I'm > glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I > reached > out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available > on the > web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came > this > spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of > self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him > closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). > > I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich > nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing > for long, > so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading > was only > interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not > convinced > they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of > sensible > groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always > orchestrated. > > Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to > warrant a > thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to > attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future > which is > surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman > Cooley > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered > "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the > readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, > the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that > Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in > Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work > that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply > accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't > have to make it. > > Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and > thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you > were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you > were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the > media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. > > Cris > > >> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >> capture every >> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >> fiction >> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >> During the >> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >> recording, >> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >> read . . . >> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >> one who is >> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 21 15:51:55 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:51:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ads Message-ID: <008f01c79be1$7c334470$1a8f3052@ANNY> I think this is terrible. I canceled the name of the "pot" out of compassion, xxx poems transcend international boundaries, as her poetry regularly sees publication in countries such as Wales, Canada, India, England, Australia and of course, the U.S. "zzz poems transcend inter/national boredom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon May 21 16:03:57 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:03:57 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] ads In-Reply-To: <008f01c79be1$7c334470$1a8f3052@ANNY> References: <008f01c79be1$7c334470$1a8f3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705211303v10ceb9adh18f1275d303ed0db@mail.gmail.com> On 5/21/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > I think this is terrible. I canceled the name of the "pot" out of > compassion, Of course you left just enough info that Google quickly reveals all :) It's all in the machine... Do you think any of the poets that blurbed her book actually read it? c From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 21 17:58:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:58:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ads References: <008f01c79be1$7c334470$1a8f3052@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0705211303v10ceb9adh18f1275d303ed0db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000d01c79bf3$344cb8f0$7ea83852@ANNY> opps, no idea_ From: "Chris Lott" Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 10:03 PM > On 5/21/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> I think this is terrible. I canceled the name of the "pot" out of >> compassion, > > Of course you left just enough info that Google quickly reveals all :) > > It's all in the machine... > > Do you think any of the poets that blurbed her book actually read it? > > c From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 21 21:43:05 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:43:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Skip and Cris I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The thing I'd ask about what Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton retyping The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. In the end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when asked to do repetitive tasks. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al Meant to mention 2 other Goldsmith observations of others. Clai Rice, one of the linguists in our department and deeply into experimental poetry, found it fascinating when he heard Goldsmith say in an interview (on retyping an entire issue of the New York Times) that it became increasingly difficult to write what was directly before him on the page. His mind, he said, wanted ever more to deviate, to become creative. Christian Bok said that he thinks Goldsmith is the premier poet of his generation. Hmmmm. (That's _my_ observation.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman Cooley Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as time allows. Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of "factual" media. In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. Here are some examples: 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm sure hard to henna now, mess around. 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that we bought today. 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. 124. Life in the Bat Plane. 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. 203. Hit me with your pet shark. 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. 350. Little goose poop. 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your fingers, then blame it on me. 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. > > Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as > yours. I'm > glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I > reached > out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available > on the > web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came > this > spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of > self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him > closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). > > I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich > nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing > for long, > so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading > was only > interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not > convinced > they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of > sensible > groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always > orchestrated. > > Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to > warrant a > thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to > attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future > which is > surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman > Cooley > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered > "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the > readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, > the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that > Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in > Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work > that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply > accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't > have to make it. > > Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and > thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you > were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you > were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the > media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. > > Cris > > >> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >> capture every >> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >> fiction >> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >> During the >> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >> recording, >> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >> read . . . >> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >> one who is >> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon May 21 21:47:15 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 17:47:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com> On 5/21/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > Skip and Cris > I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The thing I'd ask > about what > Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton retyping > The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. In the > end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when asked to do > repetitive tasks. It does seem obvious in one sense, but is there a lesson to be learned there that would be helpful anyway? And why isn't more creativity inspired by lives of repetition and tedium than seems to be the case? c From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 21 22:38:36 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 22:38:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0705211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com> References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <9b1b9dab0705211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Going back to Goldsmith's original comment that 'I don't exist as a poet a outside of the academy', I want to posit that that is not surprising either. Writing that is so focused on 'the language as instrument' (& that has no emotional content, per se, or that isn't 'about' something) is perfect fodder for academic discourse. Because one can easily erect the scaffolding of any kind of theory around it. As an academic critic, one doesn't have to delve into the work beyond its surface and the employed techniques; thus, one is free to avoid the messiness of the human pysche or to argue with a notion put forth by the poet. Let's say, instead of retyping The New York Times, the poet says "reading The New York Times is like retyping the words inside my head, I feel I know what I've read before I read it." Now, I'm not saying that is great poetry...but unpacking the idea, addressing the assertion in the context of the poem, is not going to be as easy or as straightforward as addressing a 'text' that just retypes The New York Times. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: chris.lott at gmail.com Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al On 5/21/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > Skip and Cris > I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The thing I'd ask > about what > Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton retyping > The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. In the > end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when asked to do > repetitive tasks. It does seem obvious in one sense, but is there a lesson to be learned there that would be helpful anyway? And why isn't more creativity inspired by lives of repetition and tedium than seems to be the case? c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 22 01:37:48 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:37:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com><9b1b9dab0705211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com> <8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003401c79c33$553f37a0$22ab3452@ANNY> I think his retyping The New York times has to be drawn back to concept art rather than poetry. The same fact that he is retyping it instead of using other mediums (colors, collage, handwriting, or other) shows an austere concept in the way he is facing / producing this work. The idea of having to upackage the message is what we are allowed to do and what fundamentally the author wishes. Directions in this case are given by the Artist's statement, if any, or by his other works. I am saying this because - I wish this does not come through as boasting or as a way to advertise my work - I "recopied" Montale's work, the first book of Faust by Goethe and the Pisan Cantos over ten years ago. By hand and on different mediums. The time required to do that brought me to add several different thoughts on why I was doing it, and some people might have added some of theirs, too, which was the aim of this work. From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:38 AM Going back to Goldsmith's original comment that 'I don't exist as a poet a outside of the academy', I want to posit that that is not surprising either. Writing that is so focused on 'the language as instrument' (& that has no emotional content, per se, or that isn't 'about' something) is perfect fodder for academic discourse. Because one can easily erect the scaffolding of any kind of theory around it. As an academic critic, one doesn't have to delve into the work beyond its surface and the employed techniques; thus, one is free to avoid the messiness of the human pysche or to argue with a notion put forth by the poet. Let's say, instead of retyping The New York Times, the poet says "reading The New York Times is like retyping the words inside my head, I feel I know what I've read before I read it." Now, I'm not saying that is great poetry...but unpacking the idea, addressing the assertion in the context of the poem, is not going to be as easy or as straightforward as addressing a 'text' that just retypes The New York Times. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: chris.lott at gmail.com Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al On 5/21/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > Skip and Cris > I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The thing I'd ask > about what > Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton retyping > The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. In the > end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when asked to do > repetitive tasks. It does seem obvious in one sense, but is there a lesson to be learned there that would be helpful anyway? And why isn't more creativity inspired by lives of repetition and tedium than seems to be the case? c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue May 22 02:17:00 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 22:17:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <9b1b9dab0705211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com> <8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705212317h10c4db6ata2e87432b056ebc0@mail.gmail.com> On 5/21/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Going back to Goldsmith's original comment that 'I don't exist as a poet a > outside of the academy', I want to posit that that is not surprising either. > Writing that is so focused on 'the language as instrument' (& that has no > emotional content, per se, or that isn't 'about' something) is perfect > fodder for academic discourse. Because one can easily erect the scaffolding > of any kind of theory around it. As an academic critic, one doesn't have to > delve into the work beyond its surface and the employed techniques; thus, > one is free to avoid the messiness of the human pysche or to argue with a > notion put forth by the poet. Every time *I* venture a very similar opinion hordes of post-avant poets come after me with sharpened pencils to nail me to the cross of tradition on top of my ivory tower. I agree, but quietly. c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 22 09:45:16 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:45:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com><9b1b9dab0705 211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com><8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> 9b1b9dab0705212317h10c4db6ata2e87432b056ebc0@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >> Going back to Goldsmith's original comment that 'I don't exist as a poet >> a >> outside of the academy', I want to posit that that is not surprising >> either. >> Writing that is so focused on 'the language as instrument' (& that has no >> emotional content, per se, or that isn't 'about' something) is perfect >> fodder for academic discourse. Because one can easily erect the >> scaffolding >> of any kind of theory around it. As an academic critic, one doesn't have >> to >> delve into the work beyond its surface and the employed techniques; thus, >> one is free to avoid the messiness of the human pysche or to argue with a >> notion put forth by the poet. > > Every time *I* venture a very similar opinion hordes of post-avant > poets come after me with sharpened pencils to nail me to the cross of > tradition on top of my ivory tower. I agree, but quietly. > > c Straw man argument. The opposite straw man is "philistines care only about people-centered poetry they can emotionally identify with because they haven't the brains to appreciate technique and what words can do beyond ring their me-chimes." I would add that most academics are still Vendlerizing the same old pre-avant stuff they always have. I, by the way, consider what Goldsmith, et al, are doing interesting but don't get much out of it, myself. It seems to me a sort of very random research and development left undeveloped. But it most certainly has an "emotional" content. Words can't avoid that. --Bob G. From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 22 09:47:58 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:47:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Conceptual In-Reply-To: <000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com><9b1b9dab0705 211847g3e925a32w19afda85fb4f1a66@mail.gmail.com><8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> 9b1b9dab0705212317h10c4db6ata2e87432b056ebc0@mail.gmail.com <000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I'm not familiar with Goldsmith's work, but the notion of retyping the New York Times puts me in mind of my favorite definition of conceptual art: that which it is more fun to talk about than experience. All the spunk & flavor comes from the commentary, the debate, the provocation of it, not from the work per se. That's the big dividing line, I'd venture, between aesthetic critics like Vendler, and theoretical critics of whatever ideology. I am aware that not everyone will agree. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 22 09:58:31 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:58:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Web Site Message-ID: <3B8EEB21-B6A2-405B-87C6-4A80AF972BDA@ripon.edu> Time for my annual request for help with my Poetry Library web site. As always, I invite suggestions for additions, and gentle critiques if any. This year there's a difference: I have finally migrated my old site to a new server, and am in the process of a major upgrade/revision. The main pages are mostly up and running now; many of the inner pages remain infested with dead links, but I'm working on that. I cordially invite you to visit. Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html If anyone has my old site bookmarked, now would be a nifty time to update, also. For the poetry library, I'm always looking for good sites to link to-- including your own home page if you feature a lot of free poems or other texts there. My library is mainly a teaching resource, so I'm not as inclined to link to sites that are simply advertisements for your books. But I do agree that we should all run out & buy them. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Tue May 22 11:27:03 2007 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:27:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Web Site In-Reply-To: <3B8EEB21-B6A2-405B-87C6-4A80AF972BDA@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <1179847623-2384.00026.02978-smmsdV2.1.6@mailhub.valpo.edu> Thanks for the notification, David. I have added your new web pages to the information accompanying the announcement posted earlier this morning of your poem, "Cold Comfort," as the VPR Poem of the Week. I invite all on the list to check out the post about David's poetry at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Tuesday of each week "One Poet's Notes" highlights work by a poet selected from the archives of _Valparaiso Poetry Review_. --Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue May 22 11:38:07 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:38:07 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705220838k508b5cbcocff6092f6012ae58@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > I, by the way, consider what Goldsmith, et al, are doing interesting but > don't get much out of it, myself. It seems to me a sort of very random > research and development left undeveloped. But it most certainly has an > "emotional" content. Words can't avoid that. Like I said... sharpen the pencils... If the emotional content isn't controlled by the poet to any significant degree and there isn't any intentionality in the composition, which means the words become objects to which all meaning is ascribed by us, then where's the art? You might as well maintain that *any* object has unavoidable emotional content because they are within our gaze... every rock, every Taiwanese stereo, every piece of fruit. I'm not denying the value of Goldsmith or Grenier or whoever one is talking about whatever example one wants to put up. But it's hard to see an alternative to James' position regarding what is brought to such poems by the reader and the quantity of same. And why deny it? It's clearly what those poets want... and just as clearly some readers want it. Why the insistene that they are operating in some other, old, quietist mode? c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 22 13:41:27 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 12:41:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com><8C96A316ED94 F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com><000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> 9b1b9dab0705220838k508b5cbcocff6092f6012ae58@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <006a01c79c98$6e98acd0$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Chris, I'm wrapped up in a Big Project, so will be brief and incomplete. I say mathematics can be an emotional experience. Ditto with words as objects. I can't answer for Goldsmith, et al. One of the et als, Jim Leftwich, is a pal of mine and has done some wonderful things--but using colors, and resonant words. I think he goes too far into indeterminacy at times. I don't know that he intentionally eschews common emotion in some or all of his work, or that Goldsmith does. Maybe so, in which case I agree with you and Jim about those sort of works of these poets. --Bob From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue May 22 13:12:44 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 12:12:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com> I think your question Jim gets to the heart of the dada impulse, which is the impulse to negate. Duchamp's readymades negate or neatly bypass creation by introducing manufactured objects into art. Cage attempts through use of chance to negate or bypass his own tastes and desires. His Silent Piece (_4'33"_) negates the process of creating anything by the pianist playing nothing for that length of time-- so that the noise in the auditorium is the piece. When I "heard" it played, there were radiator fans, coughing, embarrassed whispers, snickering, and someone's electronic watch alarm going off. These examples, I believe, were uppermost in Goldsmith's mind (or already firmly implanted in his esthetic) when he "created" _Day_. In this case, the negation is disallowing any creation other than what is contained in the NY Times on Bloomsday, 2003 (as I recollect). And yes, almost everything in our creative being rejects this negation, and would at least add color or use crayons, as Anny mentions that she did in her work. The difference between _Day_ and the readymades is in Goldsmith's drudge task of retyping, a servitude that reminds me of Bartleby the Scrivener, except that Goldsmith completes the task and Bartleby, like the rest of us, "...would prefer not." [As you recall, Bartleby is repaid for his sanity by being sent to the Asylum.] As David mentions, the conceptualist (read dadaist) impulse results in an idea that is more interesting than the "work of art". The "great" dada works-- readymades, silent piece, white paintings, and a few others-- represent limits beyond which art cannot go. And, mostly, they are works that can never be repeated. They can only be transcended. Most people, even I'd guess most people on this list, would prefer to negate the negation by ignoring the dada impulse and its trickle down-- almost 100 years after the fact-- into poetry in the person of Goldsmith. But I think we do so at our own peril. As Ken Wilbur says of the history of consciousness (and the analogy to art is exact): if you fail to embrace the current (or any previous) level, you will not be able to graduate into the next level of consciousness. Naturally, many people reject that art is evolving or involves progress. But art is a reflection of consciousness-- and art stuck in previous levels of consciousness (having rejected one or more) can never "make it new". I think we cannot transcend dadaism (and the green consciousness that it inhabits) until we have embraced it and learned what it has to teach. > Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:43:05 -0400 > From: jforjames at aol.com > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > > Skip and Cris > I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The > thing I'd ask about what > Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton > retyping > The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. > In the end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life > when asked to do repetitive tasks. > Finnegan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: skip at louisiana.edu > Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:27 PM > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > > > Meant to mention 2 other Goldsmith observations of others. > > Clai Rice, one of the linguists in our department and deeply into > experimental poetry, found it fascinating when he heard Goldsmith > say in an > interview (on retyping an entire issue of the New York Times) that > it became > increasingly difficult to write what was directly before him on the > page. > His mind, he said, wanted ever more to deviate, to become creative. > > Christian Bok said that he thinks Goldsmith is the premier poet of his > generation. > > Hmmmm. (That's _my_ observation.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman > Cooley > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > > I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted > to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's > _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece > of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as > time allows. > > Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I > read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a > 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 > minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, > two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, > the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as > can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. > Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and > perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element > is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp > signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate > choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor > of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important > artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, > pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that > leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he > provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have > tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, > glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point > where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember > picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It > is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models > lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This > "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) > were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or > style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of > "factual" media. > > In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from > Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing > from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- > mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly > recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. > Here are some examples: > > 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. > 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama > don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. > 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. > 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. > 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. > 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm > sure hard to henna now, mess around. > 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. > 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that > we bought today. > 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves > back to the garden. > 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. > 124. Life in the Bat Plane. > 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. > 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. > 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. > 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. > 203. Hit me with your pet shark. > 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. > 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. > 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. > 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. > 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. > 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. > 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. > 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. > 350. Little goose poop. > 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. > 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. > 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. > 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. > 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. > 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. > 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. > 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your > fingers, then blame it on me. > 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > > > > > > >> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" >> Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" >> >> Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. >> >> Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as >> yours. I'm >> glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I >> reached >> out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available >> on the >> web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came >> this >> spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: >> levels of >> self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read >> him >> closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). >> >> I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich >> nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing >> for long, >> so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading >> was only >> interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not >> convinced >> they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of >> sensible >> groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always >> orchestrated. >> >> Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to >> warrant a >> thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am >> willing to >> attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future >> which is >> surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman >> Cooley >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered >> "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the >> readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, >> the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that >> Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in >> Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work >> that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply >> accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't >> have to make it. >> >> Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and >> thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you >> were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you >> were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the >> media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. >> >> Cris >> >> >>> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >>> From: "Skip Fox" >>> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>> >>> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >>> capture every >>> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >>> fiction >>> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >>> During the >>> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >>> recording, >>> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >>> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >>> read . . . >>> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >>> one who is >>> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >>> >>> >> >> > From LauraHeidy at aol.com Tue May 22 13:22:34 2007 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:22:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New Web Site Message-ID: Dear David, What a remarkable website. I am only sorry I had not found it sooner. I've had a delightful hour or so combing through your links. I'm going to take the liberty of adding a link to this on my own poor little blog if I may. I keep trying to add to resources and it's slow going sometimes. This will make a wonderful addition. Also, since you asked, have you thought about adding The Hypertext to your library? It's a good solid long-standing showcase for (mostly) formal poets and it's updated monthly with lots of new poems and poets and information. ( _http://thehypertexts.com/_ (http://thehypertexts.com/) ) You might also wish to consider adding Contemporary Rhyme to your journal listings. _http://www.contemporaryrhyme.com/index.html_ (http://www.contemporaryrhyme.com/index.html) Again, thank you so much for all this information in such a user-friendly setting. Lo _www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com_ (http://www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 22 14:13:52 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:13:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <003401c79c33$553f37a0$22ab3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <000001c79c9c$fa11a4c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I can't remember, but one modern fiction writer (Hunter Thompson?) copied the works of another (Thomas Wolf?) when he sat down and started to become a writer. Brian Richards, friend, poet and letterpress publisher (Bloody Twin Press), says setting type is his most intimate way into the creative process of another. Ralph Maud, Olson scholar and editor of the Minutes of the Charles Olson Society, used to travel to collections of Olson's letters and rewrite at least the holographic ones by hand, rather than to have them photocopied. When I asked him about this, he asked why I thought he did it. I said to inhabit Olson's mind as closely as he could by/while replicating the same motions on the same places on his page. That was the reason. What mind might one inhabit "behind" the Times? A deafening urbane sameness? A sophisticated yawn? A slightly arch cynicism mixed with a muted idealism? I'll bet Goldsmith addresses this. I'll look for it on the web. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:38 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al I think his retyping The New York times has to be drawn back to concept art rather than poetry. The same fact that he is retyping it instead of using other mediums (colors, collage, handwriting, or other) shows an austere concept in the way he is facing / producing this work. The idea of having to upackage the message is what we are allowed to do and what fundamentally the author wishes. Directions in this case are given by the Artist's statement, if any, or by his other works. I am saying this because - I wish this does not come through as boasting or as a way to advertise my work - I "recopied" Montale's work, the first book of Faust by Goethe and the Pisan Cantos over ten years ago. By hand and on different mediums. The time required to do that brought me to add several different thoughts on why I was doing it, and some people might have added some of theirs, too, which was the aim of this work. From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:38 AM Going back to Goldsmith's original comment that 'I don't exist as a poet a outside of the academy', I want to posit that that is not surprising either. Writing that is so focused on 'the language as instrument' (& that has no emotional content, per se, or that isn't 'about' something) is perfect fodder for academic discourse. Because one can easily erect the scaffolding of any kind of theory around it. As an academic critic, one doesn't have to delve into the work beyond its surface and the employed techniques; thus, one is free to avoid the messiness of the human pysche or to argue with a notion put forth by the poet. Let's say, instead of retyping The New York Times, the poet says "reading The New York Times is like retyping the words inside my head, I feel I know what I've read before I read it." Now, I'm not saying that is great poetry...but unpacking the idea, addressing the assertion in the context of the poem, is not going to be as easy or as straightforward as addressing a 'text' that just retypes The New York Times. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: chris.lott at gmail.com Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al On 5/21/07, jforjames at aol.com > wrote: > > > Skip and Cris > I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The thing I'd ask > about what > Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton retyping > The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. In the > end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when asked to do > repetitive tasks. It does seem obvious in one sense, but is there a lesson to be learned there that would be helpful anyway? And why isn't more creativity inspired by lives of repetition and tedium than seems to be the case? c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue May 22 13:18:29 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:18:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <000001c79c9c$fa11a4c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c79c9c$fa11a4c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Has anyone yet mentioned Borges in this thread? Pierre Menard, author of The Quixote, etc? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 22, 2007, at 2:13 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I can?t remember, but one modern fiction writer (Hunter Thompson?) > copied the works of another (Thomas Wolf?) when he sat down and > started to become a writer. Brian Richards, friend, poet and > letterpress publisher (Bloody Twin Press), says setting type is his > most intimate way into the creative process of another. Ralph Maud, > Olson scholar and editor of the Minutes of the Charles Olson > Society, used to travel to collections of Olson?s letters and > rewrite at least the holographic ones by hand, rather than to have > them photocopied. When I asked him about this, he asked why I > thought he did it. I said to inhabit Olson?s mind as closely as he > could by/while replicating the same motions on the same places on > his page. That was the reason. > > > What mind might one inhabit ?behind? the Times? A deafening urbane > sameness? A sophisticated yawn? A slightly arch cynicism mixed with > a muted idealism? I?ll bet Goldsmith addresses this. I?ll look for > it on the web. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 12:38 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > > > I think his retyping The New York times has to be drawn back to > concept art rather than poetry. The same fact that he is retyping > it instead of using other mediums (colors, collage, handwriting, or > other) shows an austere concept in the way he is facing / producing > this work. The idea of having to upackage the message is what we > are allowed to do and what fundamentally the author wishes. > Directions in this case are given by the Artist's statement, if > any, or by his other works. > > I am saying this because - I wish this does not come through as > boasting or as a way to advertise my work - I "recopied" Montale's > work, the first book of Faust by Goethe and the Pisan Cantos over > ten years ago. By hand and on different mediums. The time required > to do that brought me to add several different thoughts on why I > was doing it, and some people might have added some of theirs, too, > which was the aim of this work. > > > > From: jforjames at aol.com > > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:38 AM > > > Going back to Goldsmith's original comment that 'I don't exist as a > poet a outside of the academy', I want to posit that that is not > surprising either. Writing that is so focused on 'the language as > instrument' (& that has no emotional content, per se, or that isn't > 'about' something) is perfect fodder for academic discourse. > Because one can easily erect the scaffolding of any kind of theory > around it. As an academic critic, one doesn't have to delve into > the work beyond its surface and the employed techniques; thus, one > is free to avoid the messiness of the human pysche or to argue with > a notion put forth by the poet. > > > Let's say, instead of retyping The New York Times, the poet says > "reading The New York Times is like retyping the words inside my > head, I feel I know what I've read before I read it." Now, I'm not > saying that is great poetry...but unpacking the idea, addressing > the assertion in the context of the poem, is not going to be as > easy or as straightforward as addressing a 'text' that just retypes > The New York Times. > > > Finnegan > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: chris.lott at gmail.com > Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > > On 5/21/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Skip and Cris > > I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The > thing I'd ask > > about what > > Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any > automaton retyping > > The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. > In the > > end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when > asked to do > > repetitive tasks. > > It does seem obvious in one sense, but is there a lesson to be learned > there that would be helpful anyway? > > And why isn't more creativity inspired by lives of repetition and > tedium than seems to be the case? > > c > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 22 14:34:05 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:34:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01c79c9f$cd3b30d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Right. Exactly. I think what my friend Clai Rice found fascinating, was the degree of impulse (light to irresistible) he progressively faced. Clai is a linguistic with a very scientific thrust, and I?m guessing but it seemed he liked the fact that Goldsmith reported the impulse might graphed as a curve of increasing difficulty rising during the course of the project. But you?re right. We all learned this well, I?m sure. John Ashbery seems to reflect the result of such boredom in ?The Instruction Manual,? a piece presumably written by a bored tech writer who finds mental refuge by building rich and polished pastiche of clich?s (from movies and books) about Mexico. (Not to diminish what Goldsmith is up to, after all it?s _his_ art, but I would like to have seen the scale of creativity he was capable of and which might have pulled him away from his appointed task.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 8:43 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al Skip and Cris I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The thing I'd ask about what Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any automaton retyping The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. In the end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life when asked to do repetitive tasks. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: skip at louisiana.edu Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:27 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al Meant to mention 2 other Goldsmith observations of others. Clai Rice, one of the linguists in our department and deeply into experimental poetry, found it fascinating when he heard Goldsmith say in an interview (on retyping an entire issue of the New York Times) that it became increasingly difficult to write what was directly before him on the page. His mind, he said, wanted ever more to deviate, to become creative. Christian Bok said that he thinks Goldsmith is the premier poet of his generation. Hmmmm. (That's _my_ observation.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu ] On Behalf Of Crisman Cooley Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as time allows. Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of "factual" media. In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. Here are some examples: 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone away. 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm sure hard to henna now, mess around. 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that we bought today. 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. 124. Life in the Bat Plane. 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. 203. Hit me with your pet shark. 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. 350. Little goose poop. 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your fingers, then blame it on me. 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. > Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > > Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > > Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. > > Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as > yours. I'm > glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I > reached > out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available > on the > web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came > this > spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: levels of > self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has read him > closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). > > I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared rich > nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing > for long, > so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading > was only > interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not > convinced > they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of > sensible > groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always > orchestrated. > > Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to > warrant a > thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am willing to > attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future > which is > surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu ] On Behalf Of Crisman > Cooley > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought > > My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered > "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is the > readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, > the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that > Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in > Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work > that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply > accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't > have to make it. > > Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and > thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you > were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you > were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in the > media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican tv. > > Cris > > >> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >> From: "Skip Fox" > >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >> >> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >> capture every >> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >> fiction >> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >> During the >> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >> recording, >> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter-reversed >> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >> read . . . >> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >> one who is >> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing it. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.mccall at navy.mil Tue May 22 14:55:22 2007 From: steven.mccall at navy.mil (Mccall, Steven NAVAIR) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:55:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <000a01c79c9f$cd3b30d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <000a01c79c9f$cd3b30d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB015B66FB@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> Maybe that's Goldsmith's point: style guides strip him (and possibly other poets) of the creativity that they may otherwise have been capable of. Newspapers, universities, technical manuals, how-to-for-dummies, text books...all these have style guides that inform us yet simultaneously strip away our creativity by their example, if we're not careful. The irony of how knowledge (in the form of 'news' in newspapers, and knowledge of the rules of writing) in the wrong hands may kill the creative process if one isn't one their guard. A lot of diary-entry poetry follows a sort of style guide that rivals a newspaper's monotony. -----Original Message----- But you're right. We all learned this well, I'm sure. John Ashbery seems to reflect the result of such boredom in "The Instruction Manual," a piece presumably written by a bored tech writer who finds mental refuge by building rich and polished pastiche of clich?s (from movies and books) about Mexico. (Not to diminish what Goldsmith is up to, after all it's _his_ art, but I would like to have seen the scale of creativity he was capable of and which might have pulled him away from his appointed task.) From skip at louisiana.edu Tue May 22 15:03:04 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:03:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <000a01c79c9f$cd3b30d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <001901c79ca3$d9c09df0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Here are a few things Goldsmith maintained about _Day_. (It took him over a year to retype the _Times_.) . Goldsmith: But it was important to keep this line of thought intact because it was this inquiry that led me, about five years later, to write the trilogy of Day, Week and Month during 2000-2001. They are all retyping pieces: Day is a retyping of a day's copy of The New York Times, Week is a retyping of an entire issue of Time, and Month is a retyping of the February 2001 issue of Vogue. As process-based works, they are more punishing by far than Soliloquy and Fidget. The object of the work was to create a valueless practice, which I found to be an impossibility since the act of reproducing the texts in and of itself has some sort of intrinsic value. from an interview: http://www.jacketmagazine.com/21/perl-gold-iv.html I don't assume that because a work is of extreme length, it is humorous. The length of my works are pre-determined by the content with which I'm working. For example, the only reason Day-- the book where I retyped an edition of a day's New York Times -- is 900 pages is that's how long the manuscript turned out to be when retyped start to finish. What is humorous, however, is that when examined, the contents of our daily newspaper is 900 pages long! Every day, a great book is written several times all over the world, only to be discarded and begun again the next day. Or as Marshall McLuhan put it half a century ago: "Any paper today is a collective work of art, a daily 'book' of industrial man, an Arabian Night's entertainment in which a thousand and one astonishing tales are being told by an anonymous narrator to an equally anonymous audience." While I have no determined political agenda with my works, somehow they often bump up against the political. Like morality, politics seems an unavoidable condition when engaging in the framing of public language and discourse. Sometimes the political engagement is overt -- like when in The Weather the forecasts include the weather conditions from the Iraq battlefield -- or more oblique as in Day, which is often read as a precursor to 9-11 (it, in fact, is). My more recent project, a retyping the day's edition of The New York Times issued on the morning of September 11th, is perhaps the most overtly political work I've ever done. But I didn't really do it to be political, but instead to twist the "boring" or "mundane" nature of my work toward the "exciting", the "emotive", the "unboring." Needless to say, though, it's very political. from an interview: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/Yang_Goldsmith_Interview.pdf I retyped an entire copy of a day's New York Times, from cover to cover. It was published as a 900-page book. I sent a copy of it to The New York Times. They ignored it. You see, my gesture was economically non-threatening to them, hence it was easy for them to ignore. from an interview: http://media.www.34st.com/media/storage/paper1076/news/2004/11/18/UndefinedS ection/Petty.Theft-2190534.shtml?norewrite200610171005 &sourcedomain=www.34st.com I took this process one step further with the series of Uncreative Writings I did from 2000-2001, of which the New York Times transcription piece, Day, is a part of. I wanted to defamiliarize the most common written language, that of the daily newspaper and see what it would turn up. I "retyped" the entire contents of a day's newspaper (every instance where a word or letter appeared, regardless of whether it was editorial or advertising content). The final manuscript is over 900 pages long and includes everything: the sporting results, the movie timetables, the stock quotes, the classified ads, etc. Again, like Soliloquy, this project went far beyond the mere transcribing of one text into another. Dozens of different decisions had to be employed even in the simple act of copying. So, again, it is an extremely artificial and contrived text. In this way I've come to realize, then, that the simple act of copying any text constitutes a valid way of writing. Moving language from one place to another is a creative act of uncreativity. Hence, one needn't ever "write" again. Copying becomes a wholly satisfying act in an of itself. This would apply to the text itself: it's much more about the wholeness of language, the truth of language, rather than the artifice of fragmentation that is so inherent in much Language writing. It's something that the new generation is very interested in: How to retain semantic sense (without real fragmentation), yet have the language be as alive and foreign as modernist, post-Cagean writing. This is where the whole argument for appropriation comes in. Suddenly, the familiar or quotidian is made unfamiliar or strange, without really blasting apart the sentences. Forget the New Sentence. The Old Sentence, if framed properly, is really odd enough. from an interview: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/lehto_inerview.html I don't expect you to even read my books cover to cover. It's for that reason I like the idea that you can know each of my books in one sentence. For instance, there's the book of every word I spoke for a week unedited. Or the book of every move my body made over the course of a day, a process so dry and tedious that I had to get drunk halfway though the day in order to make it to the end. Or a book in which I retyped a day's copy of the New York Times and published it as a 900 page book. I've transcribed a year's worth of weather reports and a 24-hour cycle of one-minute traffic reports every 10 minutes, resulting in textual gridlock. Now you know what I do without ever having to have read a word of it. I think that there were a handful of artists in the 20th century who intentionally made boring work, but didn't expect their audiences to fully engage with it in a durational sense. It's these artists, I feel, who predicted the sort of unboring boredom that we're so fond of today. from: http://poetryfoundation.org/dispatches/journals/2007.01.22.html Let me go into more detail about Day. I would take a page of the newspaper, start at the upper left hand corner and work my way through, following the articles as they were laid out on the page. If an article, for example, continued on another page, I wouldn't go there. Instead, I would finish retyping the page I was on in full before proceeding to the next one. I allowed myself no creative liberties with the text. The object of the project was to be as uncreative in the process as possible. It was one of the hardest constraints a writer can muster, particularly on a project of this scale; with every keystroke came the temptation to "fudge," "cut-and-paste," and "skew" the mundane language. But to do so would be to foil my exercise. Everywhere there was a bit of text in the paper, I grabbed it. I made no distinction between editorial and advertising, stock quotes or classified ads. If it could be considered text, I had to have it. Even if there was, say, an ad for a car, I took a magnifying glass and grabbed the text off the license plate. Between retyping and OCR'ing, I finished the book in a year. Far from being boring, it was the most fascinating writing process I've ever experienced. It was surprisingly sensual. I was trained as a sculptor and moving the text from one place to another became as physical, and as sexy as, say, carving stone. It became this wild sort of obsession to peel the text off the page of the newspaper and force it into the fluid medium of the digital. I felt like I was taking the newspaper, giving it a good shake, and watching as the letters tumbled off the page into a big pile, transforming the static language that was glued to the page into moveable type. As good as the process was, that's how good I felt the end result to be. The day I chose to retype, the Friday before Labor Day weekend of 2000, was a slow news day. Just the regular stuff happened, nothing special. But in spite of that, after it was finished, it became clear that the daily newspaper -- or in this case Day -- is really a great novel, filled with stories of love, jealousy, murder, competition, sex, passion, and so forth. It's a fantastic thing: the daily newspaper, when translated, amounts to a 900 page book. Every day. And it's a book that's written in every city and in every country, only to be instantly discarded in order to write a brand new one, full of fresh stories the next day. After reading the newspaper over breakfast for 20 minutes in the morning, we say we've read the paper. Believe me, you've never really read the paper. from: http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/goldsmith_boring.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 22 15:07:25 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:07:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com> References: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <12578D42-7E2D-43DB-9B87-D89186F9287F@earthlink.net> Hmm, I find that dada impulse to be an incredibly positive one, Cris-- one that says "Why not bring to *any/everything* the kind of attention we bring to so-called art objects?" "The only thing that is not art is inattention." --Marcel Duchamp Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 22, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > I think your question Jim gets to the heart of the dada impulse, > which is the impulse to negate. Duchamp's readymades negate or > neatly bypass creation by introducing manufactured objects into > art. Cage attempts through use of chance to negate or bypass his > own tastes and desires. His Silent Piece (_4'33"_) negates the > process of creating anything by the pianist playing nothing for > that length of time-- so that the noise in the auditorium is the > piece. When I "heard" it played, there were radiator fans, > coughing, embarrassed whispers, snickering, and someone's > electronic watch alarm going off. These examples, I believe, were > uppermost in Goldsmith's mind (or already firmly implanted in his > esthetic) when he "created" _Day_. In this case, the negation is > disallowing any creation other than what is contained in the NY > Times on Bloomsday, 2003 (as I recollect). And yes, almost > everything in our creative being rejects this negation, and would > at least add color or use crayons, as Anny mentions that she did in > her work. The difference between _Day_ and the readymades is in > Goldsmith's drudge task of retyping, a servitude that reminds me of > Bartleby the Scrivener, except that Goldsmith completes the task > and Bartleby, like the rest of us, "...would prefer not." [As you > recall, Bartleby is repaid for his sanity by being sent to the > Asylum.] > > As David mentions, the conceptualist (read dadaist) impulse results > in an idea that is more interesting than the "work of art". The > "great" dada works-- readymades, silent piece, white paintings, and > a few others-- represent limits beyond which art cannot go. And, > mostly, they are works that can never be repeated. They can only > be transcended. Most people, even I'd guess most people on this > list, would prefer to negate the negation by ignoring the dada > impulse and its trickle down-- almost 100 years after the fact-- > into poetry in the person of Goldsmith. But I think we do so at > our own peril. As Ken Wilbur says of the history of consciousness > (and the analogy to art is exact): if you fail to embrace the > current (or any previous) level, you will not be able to graduate > into the next level of consciousness. Naturally, many people > reject that art is evolving or involves progress. But art is a > reflection of consciousness-- and art stuck in previous levels of > consciousness (having rejected one or more) can never "make it > new". I think we cannot transcend dadaism (and the green > consciousness that it inhabits) until we have embraced it and > learned what it has to teach. > > > >> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:43:05 -0400 >> From: jforjames at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >> >> Skip and Cris >> I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The >> thing I'd ask about what >> Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any >> automaton retyping >> The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. >> In the end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life >> when asked to do repetitive tasks. >> Finnegan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: skip at louisiana.edu >> Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:27 PM >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >> >> >> Meant to mention 2 other Goldsmith observations of others. >> >> Clai Rice, one of the linguists in our department and deeply into >> experimental poetry, found it fascinating when he heard Goldsmith >> say in an >> interview (on retyping an entire issue of the New York Times) that >> it became >> increasingly difficult to write what was directly before him on >> the page. >> His mind, he said, wanted ever more to deviate, to become creative. >> >> Christian Bok said that he thinks Goldsmith is the premier poet of >> his >> generation. >> >> Hmmmm. (That's _my_ observation.) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman >> Cooley >> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >> >> I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted >> to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's >> _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling piece >> of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as >> time allows. >> >> Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to ubuweb. I >> read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a >> 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 >> minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, >> two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, >> the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as >> can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. >> Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and >> perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada element >> is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp >> signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate >> choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in favor >> of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important >> artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, >> pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that >> leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he >> provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have >> tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, >> glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point >> where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember >> picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It >> is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models >> lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. This >> "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I recall) >> were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or >> style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of >> "factual" media. >> >> In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from >> Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. Drawing >> from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- >> mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost instantly >> recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. >> Here are some examples: >> >> 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. >> 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama >> don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone >> away. >> 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. >> 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. >> 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. >> 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm >> sure hard to henna now, mess around. >> 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. >> 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that >> we bought today. >> 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves >> back to the garden. >> 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. >> 124. Life in the Bat Plane. >> 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. >> 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. >> 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. >> 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. >> 203. Hit me with your pet shark. >> 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. >> 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. >> 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. >> 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. >> 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. >> 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. >> 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. >> 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. >> 350. Little goose poop. >> 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. >> 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. >> 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. >> 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. >> 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. >> 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. >> 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. >> 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your >> fingers, then blame it on me. >> 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 >>> From: "Skip Fox" >>> Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>> To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" >>> >>> Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. >>> >>> Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as >>> yours. I'm >>> glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I >>> reached >>> out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available >>> on the >>> web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came >>> this >>> spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: >>> levels of >>> self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has >>> read him >>> closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). >>> >>> I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared >>> rich >>> nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing >>> for long, >>> so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading >>> was only >>> interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not >>> convinced >>> they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of >>> sensible >>> groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always >>> orchestrated. >>> >>> Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to >>> warrant a >>> thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am >>> willing to >>> attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future >>> which is >>> surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman >>> Cooley >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>> >>> My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered >>> "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is >>> the >>> readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you report, >>> the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that >>> Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in >>> Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work >>> that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply >>> accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't >>> have to make it. >>> >>> Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and >>> thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you >>> were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you >>> were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in >>> the >>> media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican >>> tv. >>> >>> Cris >>> >>> >>>> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >>>> From: "Skip Fox" >>>> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>>> >>>> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >>>> capture every >>>> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always selection, a >>>> fiction >>>> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >>>> During the >>>> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >>>> recording, >>>> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter- >>>> reversed >>>> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >>>> read . . . >>>> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >>>> one who is >>>> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing >>>> it. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 22 18:20:13 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:20:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu><8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com> 12578D42-7E2D-43DB-9B87-D89186F9287F@earthlink.net Message-ID: <007a01c79cbf$60594c20$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Hmm, I find that dada impulse to be an incredibly positive one, Cris-- > one that says > "Why not bring to *any/everything* the kind of attention we bring to > so-called art > objects?" Because it is a neurophysiological fact that some things reward attention more than others. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 22 17:35:22 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:35:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <007a01c79cbf$60594c20$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu><8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com> 12578D42-7E2D-43DB-9B87-D89186F9287F@earthlink.net <007a01c79cbf$60594c20$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: And how would one know that unless one pays attention? Don't say "Take my word for it," please. Hal "No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else's draft." --H. G. Wells Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 22, 2007, at 5:20 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> Hmm, I find that dada impulse to be an incredibly positive one, >> Cris-- one that says >> "Why not bring to *any/everything* the kind of attention we bring >> to so-called art >> objects?" > > Because it is a neurophysiological fact that some things reward > attention more than others. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 22 17:40:38 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:40:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On the Road Message-ID: <86A2F532-CD31-4B67-880E-991102B3BFA1@earthlink.net> Friend told me that the original MS of Kerouac's On the Road is on display at a museum in downtown Santa Fe until the end of May. Might be worth a look if you're in the right part of downtown Santa Fe. Hal "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue May 22 17:43:16 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:43:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0705220838k508b5cbcocff6092f6012ae58@mail.gmail.com> References: <000101c79bcd$4aa84090$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <8C96A29AD0CF89B-918-BF9B@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <8C96A316ED94F97-918-C180@webmail-md03.sysops.aol.com> <000701c79c77$73a2aa30$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0705220838k508b5cbcocff6092f6012ae58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C96AD156DEB08D-1274-FE8@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> Certainly some of the experimental work under discussion?is trying to bring the word down to a mere material thing, a thing devoid of meaning. Leaving it as a sonic entity or just the husk of?its typographic form,?or make?of it?little more than that. Whether that kind of writing?strips away every last vestige of emotion or content from the words depends on the particular work in question.?But I think it would be hard to deny that work of a certain?kind is made?to be?talked 'around' and not talked?'about'.? Let me preemptively state that I don't mean 'about' in?a simplistic way (not 'about' as in, 'Lycidas is about the sadness felt after a friend's premature?death'). So, now, let's go back to Poet's Island and talk about two kinds of bottles...By 'around' I mean that the work/text is addressed as representative of a certain concept/idea/theory or as socio-cultural/political critique...there is no inherent information in the work/text to go on; it's message, if you will,?is not 'in the bottle', the message 'is the bottle' and the bottle itself is?both opaque & solid, so to speak. The message in the clouded glass?bottle?is difficult to read.?If we use a reductive or simplistic criticism to get at it, we might just break?open the bottle?(and then 'Lycidas is about the sadness felt after?young friend dies'). However if we?hold the bottle up to the?light, roll it around in our hands, shake it little, push a stick into the opening, etc., we might get at meanings and sentiments that are true but not exact, close but not whole, valid but not?right...the latter words in foregoing pairs?were never?possible in the first place, and not possible for either party to the?verbal transaction (the poem) even if the bottle could be simply?broken open. The poet's intention or conception?can never be fully carried of: The message found inside would be?written in a?faded, blotted?ink and scrawled handwriting. The reader's understanding and perception?always flawed: The message seen unrolled and full is looked upon by one with bad eyesight?in a?dimly?lit cave.? If the message is the bottle, solid and opaque, it becomes a blunt instrument with certain critical and theoritical uses. You can put it on a makeshift altar and dance around it. You can use it to crack open some foraged nuts. You can wield it in defense against wild beasts. But everything it is, is what it is used for and what is done?'around' it.? Finnegan ? > I, by the way, consider what Goldsmith, et al, are doing interesting but? > don't get much out of it, myself. It seems to me a sort of very random? > research and development left undeveloped. But it most certainly has an? > "emotional" content. Words can't avoid that.? ? Like I said... sharpen the pencils...? ? If the emotional content isn't controlled by the poet to any? significant degree and there isn't any intentionality in the? composition, which means the words become objects to which all meaning? is ascribed by us, then where's the art? You might as well maintain? that *any* object has unavoidable emotional content because they are? within our gaze... every rock, every Taiwanese stereo, every piece of? fruit.? ? I'm not denying the value of Goldsmith or Grenier or whoever one is? talking about whatever example one wants to put up. But it's hard to? see an alternative to James' position regarding what is brought to? such poems by the reader and the quantity of same. And why deny it?? It's clearly what those poets want... and just as clearly some readers? want it. Why the insistene that they are operating in some other, old,? quietist mode?? ? -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lott Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:38 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al On 5/22/07, Bob Grumman wrote:? >? > I, by the way, consider what Goldsmith, et al, are doing interesting but? > don't get much out of it, myself. It seems to me a sort of very random? > research and development left undeveloped. But it most certainly has an? > "emotional" content. Words can't avoid that.? ? Like I said... sharpen the pencils...? ? If the emotional content isn't controlled by the poet to any? significant degree and there isn't any intentionality in the? composition, which means the words become objects to which all meaning? is ascribed by us, then where's the art? You might as well maintain? that *any* object has unavoidable emotional content because they are? within our gaze... every rock, every Taiwanese stereo, every piece of? fruit.? ? I'm not denying the value of Goldsmith or Grenier or whoever one is? talking about whatever example one wants to put up. But it's hard to? see an alternative to James' position regarding what is brought to? such poems by the reader and the quantity of same. And why deny it?? It's clearly what those poets want... and just as clearly some readers? want it. Why the insistene that they are operating in some other, old,? quietist mode?? ? c? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue May 22 18:50:05 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:50:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" Message-ID: <648208b60705221550ic5e7ea9jea8c72daad6be49f@mail.gmail.com> Shop Talk 1. Don't cheat on your images by having an affair with a conceit. 2. Sell your metaphor and get a real house. 3. For leaner meals, write your shopping list in rhyme. 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of free verse: it doesn't get any better than that. 5. When the barometric pressure goes down, some poems begin to leak. 6. At welding school, sparks fly and images fuse. 7. The ozone layer thinned above the poetry slam. 8. A moving poem is ridden by every Tom, Dick, and Harry. 9. The poet laureate read a poem about a slice of bologna between two slices of Wonder Bread. The final couplet supplied the mayo. 10. Despite the odds, a clich? grew up to be a symbol but did not run for office. 11. Do you look in the mirror every day and ask, "What do I mean?" 12. Reading should be like writing. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 22 19:57:41 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:57:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu><8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com>12578D42-7E2D-43DB- 9B87-D89186F9287F@earthlink.net<007a01c79cbf$60594c20$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> D45BD67E-AA34-4A52-A472-9019BB1D846B@earthlink.net Message-ID: <009d01c79ccc$fe832ee0$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > And how would one know that unless one pays attention? > Don't say "Take my word for it," please. > > Hal One knows it by paying attention discriminatingly. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 22 20:06:16 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:06:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" References: 648208b60705221550ic5e7ea9jea8c72daad6be49f@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <00a901c79cce$309c3c90$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Shop Talk > > > 1. Don't cheat on your images by having an affair with a conceit. > > 2. Sell your metaphor and get a real house. > > 3. For leaner meals, write your shopping list in rhyme. > > 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of free > verse: it > doesn't get any better than that. Not even if the word, "yes," in bright yellow letters replaced the sun in the sky? > 5. When the barometric pressure goes down, some poems begin to leak. > > 6. At welding school, sparks fly and images fuse. > > 7. The ozone layer thinned above the poetry slam. > > 8. A moving poem is ridden by every Tom, Dick, and Harry. > > 9. The poet laureate read a poem about a slice of bologna between > two slices of Wonder Bread. The final couplet supplied the mayo. > > 10. Despite the odds, a clich? grew up to be a symbol but did not run > for office. > > 11. Do you look in the mirror every day and ask, "What do I mean?" > > 12. Reading should be like writing. > > > -- Jim Fun list. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Tue May 22 19:22:42 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:22:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <009d01c79ccc$fe832ee0$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <200705221412.l4MECAit013833@wiz.cath.vt.edu><8B9F96D2-5CE5-4D15-9CA6-D4CBD8FD03B0@overdomain.com>12578D42-7E2D-43DB- 9B87-D89186F9287F@earthlink.net<007a01c79cbf$60594c20$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> D45BD67E-AA34-4A52-A472-9019BB1D846B@earthlink.net <009d01c79ccc$fe832ee0$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I'll ignore that. Hal "As Raymond Chandler said, 'It was one of those days when Los Angeles felt like a rock-hard fig.'" --Monty Python, c.1974 Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 22, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> And how would one know that unless one pays attention? >> Don't say "Take my word for it," please. >> Hal > > One knows it by paying attention discriminatingly. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cstroffo at earthlink.net Tue May 22 19:46:27 2007 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:46:27 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" In-Reply-To: <00a901c79cce$309c3c90$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: 648208b60705221550ic5e7ea9jea8c72daad6be49f@mail.gmail.com <00a901c79cce$309c3c90$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <0A1EF85D-A509-4F35-97F9-FAC66BCF3533@earthlink.net> go for it, bg.... On May 22, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of >> free verse: it >> doesn't get any better than that. > > Not even if the word, "yes," in bright yellow letters replaced the > sun in the sky? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Tue May 22 20:21:36 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:21:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <200705222237.l4MMbiit021469@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705222237.l4MMbiit021469@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <7C72DFA6-3075-4B69-9104-1E76EE1D6078@overdomain.com> Hal, agreed. This is the dadaist's, and especially Cage's, gift to the world. And if followed religiously (i.e., as one practices Zen) it leads out of artistic creation to continuous contemplation. For me, anyway, I have felt the need to absorb, to embrace, and to escape that trap. > Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:07:25 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <12578D42-7E2D-43DB-9B87-D89186F9287F at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hmm, I find that dada impulse to be an incredibly positive one, Cris-- > one that says > "Why not bring to *any/everything* the kind of attention we bring to > so-called art > objects?" > > "The only thing that is not art > is inattention." > --Marcel Duchamp > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On May 22, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> I think your question Jim gets to the heart of the dada impulse, >> which is the impulse to negate. Duchamp's readymades negate or >> neatly bypass creation by introducing manufactured objects into >> art. Cage attempts through use of chance to negate or bypass his >> own tastes and desires. His Silent Piece (_4'33"_) negates the >> process of creating anything by the pianist playing nothing for >> that length of time-- so that the noise in the auditorium is the >> piece. When I "heard" it played, there were radiator fans, >> coughing, embarrassed whispers, snickering, and someone's >> electronic watch alarm going off. These examples, I believe, were >> uppermost in Goldsmith's mind (or already firmly implanted in his >> esthetic) when he "created" _Day_. In this case, the negation is >> disallowing any creation other than what is contained in the NY >> Times on Bloomsday, 2003 (as I recollect). And yes, almost >> everything in our creative being rejects this negation, and would >> at least add color or use crayons, as Anny mentions that she did in >> her work. The difference between _Day_ and the readymades is in >> Goldsmith's drudge task of retyping, a servitude that reminds me of >> Bartleby the Scrivener, except that Goldsmith completes the task >> and Bartleby, like the rest of us, "...would prefer not." [As you >> recall, Bartleby is repaid for his sanity by being sent to the >> Asylum.] >> >> As David mentions, the conceptualist (read dadaist) impulse results >> in an idea that is more interesting than the "work of art". The >> "great" dada works-- readymades, silent piece, white paintings, and >> a few others-- represent limits beyond which art cannot go. And, >> mostly, they are works that can never be repeated. They can only >> be transcended. Most people, even I'd guess most people on this >> list, would prefer to negate the negation by ignoring the dada >> impulse and its trickle down-- almost 100 years after the fact-- >> into poetry in the person of Goldsmith. But I think we do so at >> our own peril. As Ken Wilbur says of the history of consciousness >> (and the analogy to art is exact): if you fail to embrace the >> current (or any previous) level, you will not be able to graduate >> into the next level of consciousness. Naturally, many people >> reject that art is evolving or involves progress. But art is a >> reflection of consciousness-- and art stuck in previous levels of >> consciousness (having rejected one or more) can never "make it >> new". I think we cannot transcend dadaism (and the green >> consciousness that it inhabits) until we have embraced it and >> learned what it has to teach. >> >> >> >>> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:43:05 -0400 >>> From: jforjames at aol.com >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >>> >>> Skip and Cris >>> I'm enjoying the thoughts/thinking about Goldsmith's work. The >>> thing I'd ask about what >>> Goldsmith says below is: What did he expect? Wouldn't any >>> automaton retyping >>> The NY Times be tempted to step outside the text, to be creative. >>> In the end, it's a notion that many of us learned early in life >>> when asked to do repetitive tasks. >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: skip at louisiana.edu >>> Sent: Mon, 21 May 2007 1:27 PM >>> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >>> >>> >>> Meant to mention 2 other Goldsmith observations of others. >>> >>> Clai Rice, one of the linguists in our department and deeply into >>> experimental poetry, found it fascinating when he heard Goldsmith >>> say in an >>> interview (on retyping an entire issue of the New York Times) that >>> it became >>> increasingly difficult to write what was directly before him on >>> the page. >>> His mind, he said, wanted ever more to deviate, to become creative. >>> >>> Christian Bok said that he thinks Goldsmith is the premier poet of >>> his >>> generation. >>> >>> Hmmmm. (That's _my_ observation.) >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman >>> Cooley >>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:39 AM >>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >>> >>> I haven't read Leftwich at all-- I'll look into him further. Wanted >>> to thank you for your post a few months ago of Christian Bok's >>> _eunoia_ -- I read one section ("a", I think) a truly startling >>> piece >>> of work in the Oulipoian mode. I plan to read the other sections as >>> time allows. >>> >>> Between your discoveries and Bok's in Goldsmith, I went to >>> ubuweb. I >>> read as much as I could stand of _Traffic_ (exact transcription of a >>> 24-hour segment of NY traffic radio broadcast, once every 10 >>> minutes), and _Weather_ (complete report of NY weather on four days, >>> two solstices and equinoxes). These are of course grindingly dull, >>> the language-- "uh's" included-- as flat and factual and lifeless as >>> can be imagined, having been torn unedited from daily life. >>> Goldsmith turns the mirror back on us, showing us a complete and >>> perfect picture, as if to say: "This is your life." The dada >>> element >>> is recontextualizing these readymade texts as poetry, as Duchamp >>> signed the bottlerack. Goldsmith, I believe, makes the unfortunate >>> choice between stateside Duchampian proteges Cage and Warhol in >>> favor >>> of the latter. One reason I think Cage is one of the most important >>> artists of 20C is that he moves through Dadaism to pure perception, >>> pure attention to nature in its full complexity. Of course that >>> leads him out of art-- a fact he readily admitted-- and therefore he >>> provides no direction for any artist to follow him (though some have >>> tried). Warhol, on the other hand, leads straight into culture, >>> glitz, style-- remaking his art in the image of culture to the point >>> where the two become indistinguishable. For example, I remember >>> picking up a copy of the magazine he started called "Interview". It >>> is a magazine of full-page designer ads: beautiful bored models >>> lounging around or striking languid poses in designer clothing. >>> This >>> "look" is now ubiquitous in glam mags. The "interviews" (as I >>> recall) >>> were vapid conversations with celebrities. Now there is no glitz or >>> style in _Traffic_, _Weather_ or _Day_ -- just the blank stare of >>> "factual" media. >>> >>> In _Head Citations_, Goldsmith follows another dada thread (from >>> Roussel to Duchamp) of use of puns and homophonic sentences. >>> Drawing >>> from pop culture (a la Warhol), Goldsmith rewrites 800 song lyrics-- >>> mostly from rock-and-roll. Many of the lines become almost >>> instantly >>> recognizable as the song lyric, and the results to me are hilarious. >>> Here are some examples: >>> >>> 10.3. Oh, we are sailing, yes, give Jesus pants. >>> 12. I've got an eye on Kendra, I'd love to take her for a ride, mama >>> don't take my motor home away, mama don't take my cordless phone >>> away. >>> 15. The Pope don't work cause the vandals took the candles. >>> 34. A filleted woman ain't got no soul. >>> 64. Debbie with a glue dress gun. >>> 88. Hey little thing, let me light your chemicals, 'cause mama I'm >>> sure hard to henna now, mess around. >>> 94. Blew out my flip-flop, stepped on a pop-tart. >>> 107. I'll light the fire, while you place the bodies in the car that >>> we bought today. >>> 108. We are starving, we are frozen, and we've got to get ourselves >>> back to the garden. >>> 113. You fill up my census like a sleep in the washer. >>> 124. Life in the Bat Plane. >>> 135.2. I'm the god of Velveeta, baby. >>> 138. Her heavy head turned to ice cream, being the one. >>> 153. Burning all the shoes off Avalon. >>> 155.1. Count the head lice on the highway. >>> 203. Hit me with your pet shark. >>> 211. Warm smell of the wheat dust, rising up through the air. >>> 221. I can see Shirley now Lorraine has gone. >>> 263.4. I'd rather dance with your mother. >>> 273. Like Frankenstein I did it my way. >>> 286. I want a new truck, one that won't make me sick. >>> 292. Don't let your life pass you by, whiffle balls of memory. >>> 303.5. Big old jet and a rhino. >>> 341. Let's get biblical, biblical. >>> 350. Little goose poop. >>> 358.4. Oh Lord, I'm stuck in Ohio. >>> 369. That's me with the mower, that's me with the frostbite. >>> 370. I started school in a worn torn dress and somebody threw up. >>> 380. Four hundred children and a clock in the field. >>> 380.1. Four hundred children and the turnips won't peel. >>> 380.2. Four hundred children and a dog with no wheels. >>> 405. I'm standing in the middle of life with my pants behind me. >>> 458. I'm gonna step to the side, say I'm sorry, stomp on your >>> fingers, then blame it on me. >>> 463. Is it any wonder, I'll reject your verse. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 11:05:06 -0500 >>>> From: "Skip Fox" >>>> Subject: RE: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>>> To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <002201c79a2f$7dbb5d40$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>>> >>>> I don't know (that I know) of any tv show writers. >>>> >>>> Let me expand a bit. My take on Goldsmith is much the same as >>>> yours. I'm >>>> glad someone has done this, not that I need study it deeply. But I >>>> reached >>>> out to see it (I think all of his Coach House works are available >>>> on the >>>> web) and made some interesting discoveries. When Christian Bok came >>>> this >>>> spring, he spoke to a class on mine about other discoveries: >>>> levels of >>>> self-reflexivity in _Day_, etc. I'm glad someone like Bok has >>>> read him >>>> closely and reports on it (I also found much of this on the web). >>>> >>>> I recently dove into a Jim Leftwich book which at first appeared >>>> rich >>>> nonsense. I wondered how anyone could keep going at such writing >>>> for long, >>>> so I decided to read 50 pages. I found out the text I was reading >>>> was only >>>> interspersed with the apparent dadist soup of words (and I'm not >>>> convinced >>>> they are, or at least at times I have more than a moderate sense of >>>> sensible >>>> groupings) are long passages of quotation and disquisition, always >>>> orchestrated. >>>> >>>> Leftwich has a ready payoff. Goldsmith doesn't have enough to >>>> warrant a >>>> thorough investigation, but I'm glad he did what he did, am >>>> willing to >>>> attend to it moderately, and hope he keeps doing work in the future >>>> which is >>>> surprising, provoking, funny, heartfelt, etc. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Crisman >>>> Cooley >>>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:31 PM >>>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> Subject: Re: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>>> >>>> My sentiments too. When I first started reading new-po I wondered >>>> "Where is the true Dadaist? Where is the silent piece? Where is >>>> the >>>> readymade?" Then I read about Goldsmith's _Day_, and as you >>>> report, >>>> the more interesting _Fidget_ and I felt at ease. No surprise that >>>> Goldsmith (I believe) started as a visual artist well schooled in >>>> Duchampianism. It is telling in the conceptual nature of his work >>>> that I haven't actually sought out the text of _Fidget_. Simply >>>> accepted the necessity of the gesture and felt relief that I didn't >>>> have to make it. >>>> >>>> Skip, pardon me, I think many of your posts are interesting and >>>> thought provoking-- I couldn't help being very surprised that you >>>> were lauding a television show screen writer (at least I think you >>>> were-- don't have the post at hand). Can you explain? I live in >>>> the >>>> media shadow. We get one station here-- badly-- and it's Mexican >>>> tv. >>>> >>>> Cris >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:56:59 -0500 >>>>> From: "Skip Fox" >>>>> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Academy-Award Winnning Sad Thought >>>>> >>>>> Nice. But I'd argue that _Fidget_ is worth a look. He tries to >>>>> capture every >>>>> movement of his body that he can (aware there's always >>>>> selection, a >>>>> fiction >>>>> of sorts) for a 18 hour period (or 16?). A book without a head. >>>>> During the >>>>> book he masturbates, has a strongly anxious reaction to his own >>>>> recording, >>>>> takes a walk, and gets drunk. (The last chapter is a letter- >>>>> reversed >>>>> word-by-word "copy" of the first, which he has trained himself to >>>>> read . . . >>>>> it's on ubu.com).You're right, a conceptual artist, in words, yet >>>>> one who is >>>>> pushing some conditions in interesting ways. I'm glad he's doing >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue May 22 21:47:35 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:47:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <200705222237.l4MMbiit021469@wiz.cath.vt.edu> 7C72DFA6-3075-4B69-9104-1E76EE1D6078@overdomain.com Message-ID: <013a01c79cdc$58419660$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Hal, agreed. This is the dadaist's, and especially Cage's, gift to the > world. And if followed religiously (i.e., as one practices Zen) it leads > out of artistic creation to continuous contemplation. For me, anyway, I > have felt the need to absorb, to embrace, and to escape that trap. What trap? Artistic creation? Communicable artistic creation seems to me far superior to nihilism, but to each his own. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue May 22 20:49:16 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:49:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" In-Reply-To: <0A1EF85D-A509-4F35-97F9-FAC66BCF3533@earthlink.net> References: <00a901c79cce$309c3c90$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <0A1EF85D-A509-4F35-97F9-FAC66BCF3533@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60705221749k14830bfapcedc9c3e21e9c57e@mail.gmail.com> The Truman Show? On 5/22/07, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > go for it, bg.... > > > On May 22, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of free > verse: it > > doesn't get any better than that. > > > > > Not even if the word, "yes," in bright yellow letters replaced the sun in > the sky? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 23 10:07:41 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:07:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" References: <00a901c79cce$309c3c90$92fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><0A1EF85D-A509-4F35-97F9-FAC66BCF3533@earthlink.net> 648208b60705221749k14830bfapcedc9c3e21e9c57e@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <001c01c79d43$bc2c7bb0$8afad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > The Truman Show? Well, my "yes" is a little more archetypal than that, but for fans of Harry, why not? For fans of Hillary, substitute a similarly bright golden image of her face. --Bob >> 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of free >> verse: it >> >> doesn't get any better than that. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed May 23 10:03:35 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Web Site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <465449B7.7020907@opus40.org> David -- I've always thought of your website as one of the great poetry resources, and it's even better now. LauraHeidy at aol.com wrote: > Dear David, > > What a remarkable website. I am only sorry I had not found it > sooner. I've had a delightful hour or so combing through your links. > > I'm going to take the liberty of adding a link to this on my own poor > little blog if I may. I keep trying to add to resources and it's slow > going sometimes. This will make a wonderful addition. > > Also, since you asked, have you thought about adding The Hypertext to > your library? It's a good solid long-standing showcase for (mostly) > formal poets and it's updated monthly with lots of new poems and poets > and information. ( http://thehypertexts.com/ ) > > You might also wish to consider adding Contemporary Rhyme to your > journal listings. > > http://www.contemporaryrhyme.com/index.html > > Again, thank you so much for all this information in such a > user-friendly setting. > > Lo > www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed May 23 09:06:04 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:06:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs Message-ID: <07AB1D80-11C3-468F-95DD-2B7692FF68F9@ripon.edu> At my Poetry Library I have, after much internal resistance, put up a page of recommended poetry blogs. The resistance had to do with the high noise-to-signal ratio on so many blogs: endless "I have a head cold" or "great time with Jeremy last night" posts. But Ed Byrne & a few others have convinced me that there's much good stuff to be gleaned if you know where to look. Here's my page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Blogs.html Very much in the early stage of development. Suggestions for additions most welcome. At least for present purposes, I'm most interested in blogs that focus regularly & in detail on poems & poetry. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed May 23 09:16:09 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:16:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New Web Site In-Reply-To: <465449B7.7020907@opus40.org> References: <465449B7.7020907@opus40.org> Message-ID: <6A1ECEF2-3AEF-46FF-AC29-774FCA08AA70@ripon.edu> Thanks, Tad. And thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, back or front-channel. Laura Heidy--I've added your links now, too. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On May 23, 2007, at 10:03 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > David -- I've always thought of your website as one of the great > poetry resources, and it's even better now. > > LauraHeidy at aol.com wrote: >> Dear David, >> What a remarkable website. I am only sorry I had not found it >> sooner. I've had a delightful hour or so combing through your >> links. I'm going to take the liberty of adding a link to this on >> my own poor little blog if I may. I keep trying to add to >> resources and it's slow going sometimes. This will make a >> wonderful addition. >> Also, since you asked, have you thought about adding The >> Hypertext to your library? It's a good solid long-standing >> showcase for (mostly) formal poets and it's updated monthly with >> lots of new poems and poets and information. ( http:// >> thehypertexts.com/ ) >> You might also wish to consider adding Contemporary Rhyme to your >> journal listings. >> http://www.contemporaryrhyme.com/index.html >> Again, thank you so much for all this information in such a user- >> friendly setting. >> Lo >> www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed May 23 10:45:06 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 06:45:06 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <07AB1D80-11C3-468F-95DD-2B7692FF68F9@ripon.edu> References: <07AB1D80-11C3-468F-95DD-2B7692FF68F9@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0705230745u346ad32dxc458fbffe6e9eda3@mail.gmail.com> That's a nice addition... you're quite fond of pointing out that there is plenty of good in amongst the dreck in poetry and always has been, effectively supporting Sturgeon's law. Blogs are no exception. c On 5/23/07, David Graham wrote: > At my Poetry Library I have, after much internal resistance, put up a page > of recommended poetry blogs. > > The resistance had to do with the high noise-to-signal ratio on so many > blogs: endless "I have a head cold" or "great time with Jeremy last night" > posts. But Ed Byrne & a few others have convinced me that there's much good > stuff to be gleaned if you know where to look. > > Here's my page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Blogs.html > > Very much in the early stage of development. Suggestions for additions most > welcome. At least for present purposes, I'm most interested in blogs that > focus regularly & in detail on poems & poetry. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Chris Lott From jforjames at aol.com Wed May 23 15:59:30 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:59:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <07AB1D80-11C3-468F-95DD-2B7692FF68F9@ripon.edu> References: <07AB1D80-11C3-468F-95DD-2B7692FF68F9@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8C96B8C02D79C7D-138C-23E2@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com> I get the blog prize for shortest entries, I think. See... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ Thanks for sending the link to your list, David...there are a few blogs listed there?that I didn't know of. I don't know how others make the rounds, but I?visit blogs randomly...just clicking here?& there along?the blogroll. Some?of them my cursor finds a little more often...but in general I sort of channel surf through them. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Wed, 23 May 2007 9:06 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs At my Poetry Library I have, after much internal resistance, put up a page of recommended poetry blogs.?? The resistance had to do with the high noise-to-signal ratio on so many blogs:? endless "I have a head cold" or "great time with Jeremy last night" posts.? But Ed Byrne & a few others have convinced me that there's much good stuff to be gleaned if you know where to look. Here's my page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Blogs.html Very much in the early stage of development.? Suggestions for additions most welcome.? At least for present purposes, I'm most interested in blogs that focus regularly & in detail on poems & poetry.?? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed May 23 17:25:54 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:25:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New Web Site References: <465449B7.7020907@opus40.org> 6A1ECEF2-3AEF-46FF-AC29-774FCA08AA70@ripon.edu Message-ID: <00cd01c79d81$00809fc0$8afad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Thanks, Tad. And thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, back or front-channel. Thanks for continuing the link to my blog, David--although it seems like I'm always talking about, not a head cold, but my allergy miseries. But I do also almost always talk about poetry. Last sixty entries before Sunday contain around thirty thousand words on haiku--both conventional and wacko. The plan is to make a book of them--and other things I've written about haiku. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmarcacci at gmail.com Wed May 23 17:19:35 2007 From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 23:19:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <8C96B8C02D79C7D-138C-23E2@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: listen to people read their poems... i-outlaw 2.5 featuring Charles Bernstein... -- Bob Marcacci There is not any memory with less satisfaction than the memory of some temptation we resisted. - James Branch Cabell > From: > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:59:30 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs > > I get the blog prize for shortest entries, I think. > See... > http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > Thanks for sending the link to your list, David...there are a few blogs listed > there?that I didn't know of. > > I don't know how others make the rounds, but I?visit blogs randomly...just > clicking here?& there > along?the blogroll. Some?of them my cursor finds a little more often...but in > general I sort of channel > surf through them. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry & Views > Sent: Wed, 23 May 2007 9:06 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs > > > At my Poetry Library I have, after much internal resistance, put up a page of > recommended poetry blogs.?? > > > > The resistance had to do with the high noise-to-signal ratio on so many > blogs:? endless "I have a head cold" or "great time with Jeremy last night" > posts.? But Ed Byrne & a few others have convinced me that there's much good > stuff to be gleaned if you know where to look. > > > > > Here's my page: > > > > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Blogs.html > > > > > Very much in the early stage of development.? Suggestions for additions most > welcome.? At least for present purposes, I'm most interested in blogs that > focus regularly & in detail on poems & poetry.?? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From LauraHeidy at aol.com Wed May 23 20:59:20 2007 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:59:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New Web Site Message-ID: In a message dated 5/23/2007 10:15:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Thanks, Tad. And thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, back or front-channel. Laura Heidy--I've added your links now, too. How cool!! Thank you!! Lo ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 24 03:43:32 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:43:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs References: <07AB1D80-11C3-468F-95DD-2B7692FF68F9@ripon.edu> <8C96B8C02D79C7D-138C-23E2@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002501c79dd7$3a862db0$b28e3052@ANNY> I get no prizes, but if you wish, here is mine: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs I get the blog prize for shortest entries, I think. See... http://ursprache.blogspot.com/ Thanks for sending the link to your list, David...there are a few blogs listed there that I didn't know of. I don't know how others make the rounds, but I visit blogs randomly...just clicking here & there along the blogroll. Some of them my cursor finds a little more often...but in general I sort of channel surf through them. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Wed, 23 May 2007 9:06 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs At my Poetry Library I have, after much internal resistance, put up a page of recommended poetry blogs. The resistance had to do with the high noise-to-signal ratio on so many blogs: endless "I have a head cold" or "great time with Jeremy last night" posts. But Ed Byrne & a few others have convinced me that there's much good stuff to be gleaned if you know where to look. Here's my page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/Blogs.html Very much in the early stage of development. Suggestions for additions most welcome. At least for present purposes, I'm most interested in blogs that focus regularly & in detail on poems & poetry. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 24 11:15:50 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:15:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" In-Reply-To: <648208b60705221550ic5e7ea9jea8c72daad6be49f@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60705221550ic5e7ea9jea8c72daad6be49f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C96C2D8C6B50DC-1920-B79@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> A fun poem, Jim..., or '12. Reading should be like writing, only better.' Did people see this one in APR by Hoagland, Jim's piece made me think of it. Finnegan -- I Have News for You There are people who do not see a broken playground swing as a symbol of ruined childhood and there are people who don't interpret the behavior of a fly in a motel room as a mocking representation of their thought process. There are people who don't walk past an empty swimming pool and think about past pleasures irrecoverable and then stand there blocking the sidewalk for other pedestrians. I have read about a town somewhere in California where human beings do not send their tuberous feeder roots deep into the potting soil of others' emotional lives as if they were greedy six-year-olds sucking the last half inch of milkshake up through a noisy straw; and other persons in the Midwest who can kiss without unpacking the imperialist baggage of heterosexuality. Do you see that creamy, lemon-yellow moon? There are some people, unlike me and you, who do not yearn after love or fame or quantities of money as ?????????????????????????????????????????????? unattainable as that moon; Thus, they do not later ?????????????????? have to waste more time defaming the object of their former ardor. Or consequently run and crucify themselves in some solitary midnight Starbucks Golgotha. I have news for you: there are people who get up in the morning and cross a room and open a window to let the sweet breeze in and let it touch them all over their faces and bodies. --Tony Hoagland, APR, Mar/Apr 2007 -- Shop Talk? ? 1. Don't cheat on your images by having an affair with a conceit.? ? 2. Sell your metaphor and get a real house.? ? 3. For leaner meals, write your shopping list in rhyme.? ? 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of free verse: it? ? doesn't get any better than that.? ? 5. When the barometric pressure goes down, some poems begin to leak.? ? 6. At welding school, sparks fly and images fuse.? ? 7. The ozone layer thinned above the poetry slam.? ? 8. A moving poem is ridden by every Tom, Dick, and Harry.? ? 9. The poet laureate read a poem about a slice of bologna between? ? two slices of Wonder Bread. The final couplet supplied the mayo.? ? 10. Despite the odds, a clich? grew up to be a symbol but did not run? for office.? ? 11. Do you look in the mirror every day and ask, "What do I mean?"? ? 12. Reading should be like writing.? ? ? -- Jim? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 24 11:18:41 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:18:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Erica Funkhouser of Essex Message-ID: <8C96C2DF1F542FF-1920-BA5@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/24/a_poet_word_renowned/ A poet word-renowned Taking her page from nature ?Erica Funkhouser of Essex, a poet and a lecturer at MIT, won a Guggenheim Fellowship last month. Her fifth book of poems will be published next year. (JANET KNOTT/GLOBE STAFF) By Steven Rosenberg, Globe Staff? |? May 24, 2007 ESSEX -- Beneath a steel-gray sky, Erica Funkhouser seems at peace with the world in her backyard. "That's where we play softball," she says, walking toward a big open field behind her farmhouse. She stares at her garden and at the thick woods behind her home. Since she was a child, Funkhouser has been observing nature and writing poetry about what she has seen and heard. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 24 11:25:34 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:25:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct Message-ID: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=1&article_id=82482 Poet waxes mournful about his 'extinct' genre By Fatima Almail Special to The Daily Star Thursday, May 24, 2007 The book dwells on the idea of people fooling themselves when the truth is simple, and portrayed before their eyes, if only they were not too scared to acknowledge it. The poet said he believes in Dante's line, "Now from the grave wake poetry again." "Poetry in this century does not exist," said Radwan. "It is extinct. I hope it will be out of the grave soon because we need it." ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 24 11:42:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:42:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Freya Manfred through Ted Kooser Message-ID: <009101c79e1a$339f88a0$26e03652@ANNY> American Life in Poetry: Column 113 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 Minnesota poet Freya Manfred Swimming With A Hundred Year Old Snapping Turtle I spy his head above the waves, big as a man's fist, black eyes peering at me, until he dives into darker, deeper water. Yesterday I saw him a foot from my outstretched hand, already tilting his great domed shell away. Ribbons of green moss rippled behind him, growing along the ridge of his back and down his long reptilian tail. He swims in everything he knows, and what he knows is never forgotten. Wisely, he fears me as if I were the Plague, which I am, sick unto death, swimming to heal myself in his primeval sea. Reprinted by permission of Freya Manfred, whose most recent book is "My Only Home," 2003, from Red Dragonfly Press. Poem copyright (c) 2006 by Freya Manfred. This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. This column does not accept unsolicited poetry. ****************************** American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. The sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without alteration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu May 24 12:08:14 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:08:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Erica Funkhouser of Essex In-Reply-To: <8C96C2DF1F542FF-1920-BA5@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C96C2DF1F542FF-1920-BA5@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1B04A461-E2A5-4259-A0E4-A4C1C1C84E3D@earthlink.net> Essex, a lovely town on the Connecticut River. Lynda and I visited the place often when friends of ours live there, which they no longer do. Hal "Then there are a number of things one googles or does not google." after Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 24, 2007, at 10:18 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/24/ > a_poet_word_renowned/ > A poet word-renowned > Taking her page from nature > > Erica Funkhouser of Essex, a poet and a lecturer at MIT, won a > Guggenheim Fellowship last month. Her fifth book of poems will be > published next year. (JANET KNOTT/GLOBE STAFF) > > By Steven Rosenberg, Globe Staff | May 24, 2007 > > ESSEX -- Beneath a steel-gray sky, Erica Funkhouser seems at peace > with the world in her backyard. "That's where we play softball," > she says, walking toward a big open field behind her farmhouse. She > stares at her garden and at the thick woods behind her home. > Since she was a child, Funkhouser has been observing nature and > writing poetry about what she has seen and heard. > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu May 24 12:09:08 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:09:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> poetry is distinct Hal Today's Special Theory of Harmony http://www.xpressed.org/fall04/theory1.pdf Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu May 24 12:09:46 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:09:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Freya Manfred through Ted Kooser In-Reply-To: <009101c79e1a$339f88a0$26e03652@ANNY> References: <009101c79e1a$339f88a0$26e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: <35029AAD-EF09-46A6-869A-F250F19280D1@earthlink.net> Freya Manfred through with Ted Kooser Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Thu May 24 12:18:05 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:18:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: <200705231600.l4NG05it003815@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705231600.l4NG05it003815@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: I should be careful what I say. A few years ago one guy who used to be on this list backchannelled me to say that Hal and I had destroyed his life by talking about readymades. Never told you that Hal, did I? If we're going to fight, Bob, we'll be on the same side because as a religion, I prefer artistic creation to nihilism too. Dadaism, though, is not nihilism. It began as a way of laughing at and thereby mastering a world (just after WWI, and no less today) gone mad. Many of its forms, including Goldsmith's, point to non- creation. Of course, we must go on creating. No one will take our toy bow and arrow away! > Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:47:35 -0500 > From: "Bob Grumman" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al > >> Hal, agreed. This is the dadaist's, and especially Cage's, gift >> to the >> world. And if followed religiously (i.e., as one practices Zen) >> it leads >> out of artistic creation to continuous contemplation. For me, >> anyway, I >> have felt the need to absorb, to embrace, and to escape that trap. > > What trap? Artistic creation? Communicable artistic creation > seems to me > far superior to nihilism, but to each his own. > > --Bob From halvard at earthlink.net Thu May 24 12:29:47 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:29:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al In-Reply-To: References: <200705231600.l4NG05it003815@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Nope, you didn't, but nihil ex nihil, as I'm always telling the wife. Hal "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 24, 2007, at 11:18 AM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > I should be careful what I say. A few years ago one guy who used > to be on this list backchannelled me to say that Hal and I had > destroyed his life by talking about readymades. Never told you > that Hal, did I? > > If we're going to fight, Bob, we'll be on the same side because as > a religion, I prefer artistic creation to nihilism too. Dadaism, > though, is not nihilism. It began as a way of laughing at and > thereby mastering a world (just after WWI, and no less today) gone > mad. Many of its forms, including Goldsmith's, point to non- > creation. Of course, we must go on creating. No one will take > our toy bow and arrow away! > > >> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:47:35 -0500 >> From: "Bob Grumman" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al >> >>> Hal, agreed. This is the dadaist's, and especially Cage's, gift >>> to the >>> world. And if followed religiously (i.e., as one practices Zen) >>> it leads >>> out of artistic creation to continuous contemplation. For me, >>> anyway, I >>> have felt the need to absorb, to embrace, and to escape that trap. >> >> What trap? Artistic creation? Communicable artistic creation >> seems to me >> far superior to nihilism, but to each his own. >> >> --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 24 12:58:37 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:58:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Erica Funkhouser of Essex In-Reply-To: <1B04A461-E2A5-4259-A0E4-A4C1C1C84E3D@earthlink.net> References: <8C96C2DF1F542FF-1920-BA5@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <1B04A461-E2A5-4259-A0E4-A4C1C1C84E3D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C96C3BE86095DA-11F8-1195@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> Your right about the CT?Essex...but I think Funkhouser in Essex MA which up near Chares Olson's old stomping grounds of Gloucester MA. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:08 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Erica Funkhouser of Essex Essex, a lovely town on the Connecticut River. Lynda and I visited the place often when friends of ours live there, which they no longer do. Hal "Then there are a number of things one googles or does not google." ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?after Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com? http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 24, 2007, at 10:18 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/05/24/a_poet_word_renowned/ A poet word-renowned Taking her page from nature ?Erica Funkhouser of Essex, a poet and a lecturer at MIT, won a Guggenheim Fellowship last month. Her fifth book of poems will be published next year. (JANET KNOTT/GLOBE STAFF) By Steven Rosenberg, Globe Staff? |? May 24, 2007 ESSEX -- Beneath a steel-gray sky, Erica Funkhouser seems at peace with the world in her backyard. "That's where we play softball," she says, walking toward a big open field behind her farmhouse. She stares at her garden and at the thick woods behind her home. Since she was a child, Funkhouser has been observing nature and writing poetry about what she has seen and heard. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 24 13:00:38 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:00:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> And usually succinct. poetry is distinct -----Original Message----- From: Halvard Johnson = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu May 24 13:58:05 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:58:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> And not necessarily reliant on ink. - Jim On 5/24/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > And usually succinct. > > poetry is distinct > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu May 24 14:01:09 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:01:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Shop Talk I" In-Reply-To: <8C96C2D8C6B50DC-1920-B79@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> References: <648208b60705221550ic5e7ea9jea8c72daad6be49f@mail.gmail.com> <8C96C2D8C6B50DC-1920-B79@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60705241101j1e30f815i6f2b6d5f361ca66f@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Jim. It relfects how I talk to myself about such matters. I just weakened and shared. - Jim On 5/24/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > A fun poem, Jim..., or '12. Reading should be like writing, only better.' > > Did people see this one in APR by Hoagland, Jim's piece made me think of > it. > Finnegan > -- > I Have News for You > > There are people who do not see a broken playground swing > as a symbol of ruined childhood > > and there are people who don't interpret the behavior > of a fly in a motel room as a mocking representation of their thought > process. > > There are people who don't walk past an empty swimming pool > and think about past pleasures irrecoverable > > and then stand there blocking the sidewalk for other pedestrians. > I have read about a town somewhere in California where human beings > > do not send their tuberous feeder roots > deep into the potting soil of others' emotional lives > > as if they were greedy six-year-olds > sucking the last half inch of milkshake up through a noisy straw; > > and other persons in the Midwest who can kiss without > unpacking the imperialist baggage of heterosexuality. > > Do you see that creamy, lemon-yellow moon? > There are some people, unlike me and you, > > who do not yearn after love or fame or quantities of money as > > unattainable as that moon; > Thus, they do not later > have to waste more time > defaming the object of their former ardor. > > Or consequently run and crucify themselves > in some solitary midnight Starbucks Golgotha. > > I have news for you: > there are people who get up in the morning and cross a room > > and open a window to let the sweet breeze in > and let it touch them all over their faces and bodies. > > > --Tony Hoagland, APR, Mar/Apr 2007 > > -- > Shop Talk > > 1. Don't cheat on your images by having an affair with a conceit. > > 2. Sell your metaphor and get a real house. > > 3. For leaner meals, write your shopping list in rhyme. > > 4. A sestina on the coast, a 100 horsepower sonnet, the spray of free > verse: it > doesn't get any better than that. > > 5. When the barometric pressure goes down, some poems begin to leak. > > 6. At welding school, sparks fly and images fuse. > > 7. The ozone layer thinned above the poetry slam. > > 8. A moving poem is ridden by every Tom, Dick, and Harry. > > 9. The poet laureate read a poem about a slice of bologna between > two slices of Wonder Bread. The final couplet supplied the mayo. > > 10. Despite the odds, a clich? grew up to be a symbol but did not run > for office. > > 11. Do you look in the mirror every day and ask, "What do I mean?" > > 12. Reading should be like writing. > > > -- Jim > > ________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu May 24 14:02:30 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:02:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Freya Manfred through Ted Kooser Message-ID: As much as I admire Kooser's work, I am not very often taken with his choices for his column. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu May 24 15:15:57 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:15:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bok, Goldsmith, et al References: <200705231600.l4NG05it003815@wiz.cath.vt.edu> DF1983E8-4796-45BC-B6C0-5B671FB52DAC@overdomain.com Message-ID: <001001c79e37$f73abc40$64fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I should be careful what I say. A few years ago one guy who used to be >on this list backchannelled me to say that Hal and I had destroyed his >life by talking about readymades. Never told you that Hal, did I? Ha, I'm not close to a Hal. I is the destroyer of lives, never the destroyee! > If we're going to fight, Bob, we'll be on the same side because as a > religion, I prefer artistic creation to nihilism too. Not "fight"--more "viciously quarrel." > Dadaism, though, is not nihilism. It began as a way of laughing at and > thereby mastering a world (just after WWI, and no less today) gone mad. > Many of its forms, including Goldsmith's, point to non- creation. Of > course, we must go on creating. No one will take our toy bow and arrow > away! Right, Crisman. After my last post to this thread, I realized that the field of discussion was way too large for the kind of one-liners I was making. Certain extolled works of dadaism I think idolized strike me a stupid or trivial. Some I think great but not as anti-art but as accidentally aesthetically powerful, like Duchamp's urinal. Many followers of dada are just repeating gestures that were interesting as gestures when first made but aren't now. Anyway, the only way to discuss dada is on a case by case basis--as others did with Goldsmith's unwork. I haven't followed what's been said closely, just picked up a sentence here or there, and I'm not really interested. From what I gather, he did something which it might be interesting to write about (the copying of the Times) but the product that resulted from his actions is worthless. For his next project, he might copy the Times, then replace one of its sentences with an intelligent one. Anyway, I'm merely opposed to the end of the arts continuum that seems to feel that a blank piece of paper is as good a work of art as any. Down with discrimination, etc. In the final analysis, though, I don't care. I do what I do, and truly believe in live and let live--but not without criticism. urp, Bob From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu May 24 14:25:02 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:25:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> Poetry just stinks. Jeff On 5/24/07, James Cervantes wrote: > > And not necessarily reliant on ink. > > - Jim > > On 5/24/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > And usually succinct. > > > > poetry is distinct > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Halvard Johnson > > > > > > = > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > ________________________________ > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from > > AOL at AOL.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 24 15:15:05 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 15:15:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C96C4EF84CEE81-11F8-18AF@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> No fair..,You missed your chance....Nat'l Poetry Slag Week is over. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 2:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct Poetry just stinks. Jeff On 5/24/07, James Cervantes wrote: And not necessarily reliant on ink. - Jim On 5/24/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > And usually succinct. > > poetry is distinct > > > > >??-----Original Message----- >??From: Halvard Johnson > > >?? = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >??________________________________ >??AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review:??http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers.??Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 25 00:55:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 06:55:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Allen Bramhall Message-ID: <000801c79e88$ddac5cb0$cf8d3052@ANNY> Dear Poetics, I herewith forward to the list the OFFICIAL release re-offer of my 2-volume poem Days Poem from MERITAGE PRESS. I personally invite your curiosity, your gracious intellect, your love of the giving economy, and your satin reflections of Poetry. really, I do. Allen MERITAGE PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT Dear Poetry Lover, As a result of some last minute refinement of the project, DAYS POEM by Allen Bramhall has further plumped up its page count. Volume I is now 510 pages, vs the original 494 pages; Volume II went up by one more page to 442 pages. As these refinements distracted as from further promoting the project, Meritage Press is pleased to re-release its RELEASE OFFER, described below, with a new deadline for sending orders: Meritage Press, www.meritagepress.com A SPECIAL RELEASE OFFER! A Two-Volume Poetry Collection by Allen Bramhall: DAYS POEM, Vol. I 510 pages ISBN: 978-0-9709-1798-0 Price: $28.00 DAYS POEM, Vol. II 442 pages ISBN: 978-0-9709-1799-7 Price: $28.00 Meritage Press (www.meritagepress.com) is delighted to announce a RELEASE SPECIAL OFFER for a unique and ambitious two-volume collection by Allen Bramhall: DAYS POEM. Mr. Bramhall describes his project with: "Begun casually, the writing of Days Poem quickly grew into a daily necessity to write, even to plug onward. In this way, it resembles a journal or novel, tho it claims neither genre as its own. It started with an idea of writing large and embracing extent. It settled (and unsettled) itself within the compelling philosophical argument that it is what it is. The thrill of relentlessness and perseverance pushed it until, you know, it came to an end. As the writer of these pages, I wanted to play with hobos, and bears, and Tarzan & Jane, and Walden Pond, and all the words in between. I wanted a little amazement in every day." BIO: Allen Bramhall was born by the banks of the Concord River in 1952 and has lived in Massachusetts ever since. He was educated at Franconia College and Lesley University, and in non-academic places as well. / Simple Theory / (Potes & Poets Press) was his first book. He maintains a blog called Tributary (http://tribute-airy.blogspot.com/), and a life with Beth and Erin. To celebrate the release of Days Poem, Meritage Press is pleased to offer the following SPECIAL OFFER: To order a single volume, a 20% discount and free shipping/handling (about a $3.00 value) for a single-volume price of $22.40 To order both volumes, a 25% discount and free shipping handling for a 2-volume price of $42.00 This offer will be good through June 30, 2007...and is expected to be the least expensive rate for purchasing the book(s). Please send checks made out to "Meritage Press" and mail to Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Rd. St. Helena, CA 94574 This offer is good throughout the United States; Meritage Press will take international orders but will have to adjust shipping/handling costs. If you wish to place an international order, or have any other queries, please email MeritagePress at aol.com Beyond the expiry of this RELEASE OFFER, Days Poem will be available through the publisher (email MeritagePress at aol.com) or you can order through Meritage Press' Lulu account at: Days Poem, Vol 1: http://www.lulu.com/content/748585 Days Poem, Vol 2: http://www.lulu.com/content/748595 FOR MORE INFO: MeritagePress at aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 25 01:38:59 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:38:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> <8C96C4EF84CEE81-11F8-18AF@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01c79e8e$ff046050$cf8d3052@ANNY> poetry is distinct usually succinct not necessarily reliant on ink poetry is extinct it just stinks From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:15 PM No fair..,You missed your chance....Nat'l Poetry Slag Week is over. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 2:25 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct Poetry just stinks. Jeff On 5/24/07, James Cervantes wrote: And not necessarily reliant on ink. - Jim On 5/24/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > And usually succinct. > > poetry is distinct > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Halvard Johnson > > > = > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri May 25 05:26:41 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:26:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthdays! Message-ID: <000e01c79eae$ce0942c0$6ed63152@ANNY> And yesterday it was Bob Dylan's! What a happy moment in the year! ----- Original Message ----- From: The Writer's Almanac To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:25 AM Subject: The Writer's Almanac for May 25, 2007 To view a web version of this message, click here VISIT OUR SPONSORS HOW TO LISTEN On the radio Podcast Web archive MAKE A CONTRIBUTION FRIDAY, 25 MAY, 2007 Listen (RealAudio) | How to listen Poem: "The Faces of Children" by Elizabeth Spires, from Now the Green Blade Rises. ? W.W. Norton & Company, 2002. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) The Faces of Children Meeting old friends after a long time, we see with surprise how they have changed, and must imagine, despite the mirror's lies, that change is upon us, too. Once, in our twenties, we thought we would never die. Now, as one thoughtlessly shuffles a deck of cards, we have run through half our lives. The afternoon has vanished, the evening changing us into four shadows mildly talking on a porch. And as we talk, we listen to the children play the games that we played once. In joy and terror, they cry out in surprise as the seeker finds the one in hiding, or in fairytale tableau, each one is tapped and turned to stone. The lawn is full of breathing statues who wait to be changed back again, and we can do nothing but stand to one side of our children's games, our children's lives. We are the conjurors who take away all pain, and we are the ones who cannot take away the pain at all. They do not ask, as lately we have asked ourselves, Who was I then? And what must I become? Like newly minted coins, their faces catch the evening's radiance. They are so sure of us, more sure than we are of ourselves. Our children: who gently push us toward the end of our own lives. The future beckons brightly. They trust us to lead them there. Literary and Historical Notes: It's the birthday of short-story writer Raymond Carver (books by this author), born in Clatskanie, Oregon (1938). He wrote short-story collections such as Will You Please Be Quiet, Please? (1976) and What We Talk About When We Talk About Love (1981). It's the birthday of poet Theodore Roethke (books by this author), born in Saginaw, Michigan (1908). His poetry collections include Open House (1941) and The Waking (1954). He said, "Art is the means we have of undoing the damage of haste. It's what everything else isn't." It was on this day in 1787 that the most important convention in United States history got under way, and that was the Constitutional Convention, held in Independence Hall, the same building where the Declaration of Independence was signed. Some of the famous forefathers weren't there: Jefferson was in Paris and John Adams was in England. Patrick Henry was invited, but he refused to go because he objected to the whole thing. He said, "I smelt a rat." He objected to the purpose of the convention, which was to establish a stronger form of central government. Many people worried at the time that a stronger central government would lead to tyranny, and some even questioned whether the convention was legal. The delegates to the Constitutional Convention apparently felt that they were doing something revolutionary, because the convention was held in secret, the windows nailed shut, and guards posted. Not a single word of the proceedings was leaked to the press. Most of the men there that day were fairly young. Only four of them were over 60, and five of them were still in their 20s. Ben Franklin, at 81, was the oldest. He was suffering from gout by that time and had to be carried to the meetings in a sedan chair. Two of the delegates, Washington and Madison, would go on to become presidents. Seventeen of them would become U.S. senators, 11 would serve in the House of Representatives, four would be justices on the Supreme Court. The only state that didn't send any delegates was Rhode Island, which disapproved of the whole thing. George Washington presided over the convention even though he would have preferred to stay home in Mount Vernon. He rarely spoke during the formal debates, but his mere presence in the room affected what people said. Many of the delegates later said that they were reluctant to give the office of the president much power, because they were afraid of creating a king. But since they imagined Washington would soon hold that position, they couldn't deny him what he deserved as the head of state. Once the document was finished, it was sent off to the states for ratification. It took some persuading to get all the states to ratify it. Rhode Island held out almost to the end. Patrick Henry said, "The Constitution squints toward monarchy." But today, ours is the world's oldest written national constitution. It's also one of the shortest constitutions ever written, at only 7,591 words. The preamble of the Constitution begins, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." It's the birthday of Ralph Waldo Emerson (books by this author), born in Boston, Massachusetts (1803). He said, "Meek young men grow up in libraries, believing it their duty to accept the views, which Cicero, which Locke, which Bacon have given, forgetful that Cicero, Locke, and Bacon were only young men in libraries when they wrote those books." Be well, do good work, and keep in touch?. SPONSOR MESSAGES The Poetry Foundation National broadcasts of The Writer's Almanac Are Supported By The Poetry Foundation, Publisher of Poetry Magazine For Over 90 Years. The Writer's Almanac is produced by Prairie Home Productions and presented by American Public Media. -------------------------------------------------------------- You received this free e-mail newsletter because you previously subscribed or because it was sent to you by a friend. Unsubscribe | Contact Us | Forward to a friend ? 2007 American Public Media 480 Cedar Street, Saint Paul, MN USA 55101 -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri May 25 06:54:42 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:54:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: <002e01c79e8e$ff046050$cf8d3052@ANNY> References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> <8C96C4EF84CEE81-11F8-18AF@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <002e01c79e8e$ff046050$cf8d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: On 5/25/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > poetry is distinct > usually succinct > not necessarily reliant on ink > > poetry is extinct > it just stinks it's for finks > From: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:15 PM > > > No fair..,You missed your chance....Nat'l Poetry Slag Week is over. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > Bcc: jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 2:25 pm > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct > > > Poetry just stinks. > > Jeff > > > On 5/24/07, James Cervantes wrote: > > And not necessarily reliant on ink. > > > > - Jim > > > > On 5/24/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > And usually succinct. > > > > > > poetry is distinct > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Halvard Johnson > > > > > > > > > = > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from > > > AOL at AOL.com. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > ~ > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, > longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri May 25 06:55:34 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:55:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> <8C96C4EF84CEE81-11F8-18AF@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <002e01c79e8e$ff046050$cf8d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: On 5/25/07, Roger Day wrote: > On 5/25/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > > > > poetry is distinct > > usually succinct > > not necessarily reliant on ink > > > > poetry is extinct > > it just stinks > it's for finks who's buying the drinks? -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri May 25 06:59:37 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:59:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> <8C96C4EF84CEE81-11F8-18AF@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <002e01c79e8e$ff046050$cf8d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: On 5/25/07, Roger Day wrote: > On 5/25/07, Roger Day wrote: > > On 5/25/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > poetry is distinct > > > usually succinct > > > not necessarily reliant on ink > > > > > > poetry is extinct > > > it just stinks > > it's for finks > who's buying the drinks? and while I'm at it, who's driving poetry to the brink? A lesser known of freudian shrink that's what I think -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From queenmouse at gmail.com Fri May 25 07:52:52 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:52:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry is extinct In-Reply-To: References: <8C96C2EE8632EE0-1920-C01@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> <4B11DE88-1376-4067-B1E7-D6F0E7E9DB7E@earthlink.net> <8C96C3C304BDB70-11F8-11BB@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60705241058l1f0bc322y7749aaaebecb7a40@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0705241125o45efeb42g1e6331e2bf02e372@mail.gmail.com> <8C96C4EF84CEE81-11F8-18AF@WEBMAIL-RE12.sysops.aol.com> <002e01c79e8e$ff046050$cf8d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: On 5/25/07, Roger Day wrote: > > > who's buying the drinks? Me. My glasses are pink. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri May 25 11:08:01 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:08:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Divine Comedy Message-ID: <910FBFD9-74DB-4149-BBB5-319F9E479FB5@earthlink.net> Ignore this at your peril. Hal -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: prospect-logo.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 53781 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Issue 134 , May 2007 Divine Comedy by Julian Gough The Greeks understood that comedy (the gods' view of life) is superior to tragedy (the merely human). But since the middle ages, western culture has overvalued the tragic and undervalued the comic. This is why fiction today is so full of anxiety and suffering. It's time writers got back to the serious business of making us laugh Julian Gough's comic short story "The orphan and the mob" (published in Prospect, March 2006) has won the 2007 National Short Story prize What is wrong with the modern literary novel? Why is it so worthy and dull? Why is it so anxious? Why is it so bloody boring? Well, let's go back a bit first. Two and a half thousand years ago, at the time of Aristophanes, the Greeks believed that comedy was superior to tragedy: tragedy was the merely human view of life (we sicken, we die). But comedy was the gods' view, from on high: our endless and repetitive cycle of suffering, our horror of it, our inability to escape it. The big, drunk, flawed, horny Greek gods watched us for entertainment, like a dirty, funny, violent, repetitive cartoon. And the best of the old Greek comedy tried to give us that relaxed, amused perspective on our flawed selves. We became as gods, laughing at our own follies. Many of the finest novels?and certainly the novels I love most?are in the Greek comic tradition, rather than the tragic: Rabelais, Cervantes, Swift, Voltaire, and on through to Joseph Heller's Catch-22 and the late Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5. Yet western culture since the middle ages has overvalued the tragic and undervalued the comic. We think of tragedy as major, and comedy as minor. Brilliant comedies never win the best film Oscar. The Booker prize leans toward the tragic. In 1984, Martin Amis reinvented Rabelais in his comic masterpiece Money. The best English novel of the 1980s, it didn't even make the shortlist. Anita Brookner won that year, for Hotel du Lac, written, as the Observer put it, "with a beautiful grave formality." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Essay_Gough_1.gif Type: image/gif Size: 11172 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- The fault is in the culture. But it is also internalised in the writers, who self-limit and self-censor. If the subject is big, difficult and serious, the writer tends to believe the treatment must be in the tragic mode. When Amis addressed the Holocaust in his minor novel Time's Arrow (1991), he switched off the jokes, and the energy, and was rewarded with his only Booker shortlisting. But why this pressure, from within and without? There are two good reasons. The first is the west's unexamined cultural cringe before the Greeks. For most of the last 500 years, Homer and Sophocles have been held to be the supreme exponents of their arts. (Even Homer's constant repetition of stock phrases like "rosy-fingered dawn" and "wine-dark sea" are praised, rather than recognised as tiresome clich?s.) The second reason is that our classical inheritance is lop-sided. We have a rich range of tragedies?Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides (18 by Euripides alone). Of the comic writers, only Aristophanes survived. In an age of kings, time is a filter that works against comedy. Plays that say, "Boy, it's a tough job, leading a nation" tend to survive; plays that say, "Our leaders are dumb arseholes, just like us" tend not to. More importantly, Aristotle's work on tragedy survived; his work on comedy did not. We have the classical rules for the one but not the other, and this has biased the development of all western literature. We've been off-centre ever since. But of course Europe in the middle ages was peculiarly primed to rediscover tragedy: the one church spoke in one voice, drawn from one book, and that book was at heart tragic. All of human history, from the creation, was a story that climaxed with the sadistic murder of a man by those he was trying to save, whose fatal flaw was that he was perfect in an imperfect world. The nicest man ever, he is murdered by everybody. Not only is this tragedy; it is kitsch tragedy, overegged, a joke. It cannot survive laughter, it is too vulnerable to it. And the Bible, from apple to Armageddon, does not contain a single joke. The church spoke with one voice because it was on such shaky foundations. The largest and richest property empire of all time had somehow been built on the gospel of the poor. All other voices had to be suppressed, even dissenting gospels. Only once a year, in carnival, on the feast of fools, could the unsayable be said. A fool was crowned king, and gave a fool's sermon from the altar that reversed the usual pieties. But these speeches could not be written down or circulated. They existed in the air, for a day, and were gone. By the late middle ages, the paralysis was almost total. If you change one word of the old Vulgate Bible, the whole thing comes under suspicion. All you could hear was a single voice reading a single book, the Vulgate, a Latin translation from a Greek original. When Erasmus finally retranslated the Bible, threw it open to interpretation, he caused a crisis that ultimately tore the church apart. The problem is not specific to Christianity. Islam has always had a problem with comedy at its expense, as Salman Rushdie showed in The Satanic Verses. In Medina, in year two of the Hijra migration, with Mecca not yet fallen, the Prophet asked the faithful to kill the Jewish-Arab poet Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf for reciting his poems satirising the Prophet (and joking about Muslim women). The faithful obliged. It is interesting, but unsurprising, that all the satirists murdered and allegedly murdered on Muhammad's orders were, among other things, Jewish. With its vigorous tradition of Talmudic debate, and with no Jewish state to stifle or control that debate, Judaism never fell into the paralysis of the younger monotheisms. It was, to put it mildly, never state-approved. Judaism, excluded from the establishment in so many Christian and Muslim nations, has consequently produced a high proportion of the world's great satirists, comedians and novelists. And, in Yiddish, it produced perhaps the world's first compulsively comic, anti-authoritarian language, with its structural mockery of high German. In Christian Europe, the Renaissance rediscovery of the classical texts occurred when the habit of submission to authority was at its most extreme. When printing was invented, no one thought to use it for anything other than the Christian Bible, for that was the myth of Europe, the one true myth. As writers began moving cautiously away from the theological shore, they still felt the need for a holy book to guide them, to tell them how to write. Aristotle's Poetics provided that. If you wanted to write tragedy or epic, here were the rules. You need not think for yourself. It's particularly sad to see the narrowness of subject matter and style in the pictorial art of the era?Madonna after pink- cheeked Madonna, saint after martyred saint. So much talent, all wasted doing the Renaissance equivalent of Soviet realist art. And then something astonishing happened: the invention of the novel privatised myth, because the novel, invented after Aristotle, did not have a holy book. The novelist was on his own. Sometimes he's even a she. There were no rules. The chaos of carnival had found its form. The fool's sermon could be published, could live on. All you learned from Rabelais or Cervantes was to mock everything sacred, all that went before. Including them. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Essay_Gough_2.gif Type: image/gif Size: 12679 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- And the reaction was fierce. Rabelais was jailed for his wild comedies. Voltaire, praised for his early tragedies, was jailed for his satires. Cervantes apparently started Don Quixote in a debtors' prison. All had to flee town on occasion for fear of worse. Printing had to be done abroad, in secret, and the books smuggled to their destinations. The early years of the novel look remarkably like a guerrilla war, as pro-Bible forces try to put down the insurgency of the novel across Europe. Both were fighting for the same piece of territory: the territory inside your head. Now a man could invent his own myth and spread it across the world. And the reader, head bowed over the novel, could have a vision without religion: a full vision, transmitted through space and time by marks on paper, using the novelist's arts. The novel, when done right?when done to the best of the novelist's abilities, talent at full stretch?is always greater than the novelist. It is more intelligent. It is more vast. It can change your entire internal world. Of course, so can a scientific truth. So can a religious experience. So can some drugs. So can a sublime event in nature. But the novel operates on that high level. Sitting there, alone, quite still, you laugh, you murmur, you cry, and you can come out of it with a new worldview, in a new reality. It's a controlled breakdown, or breakthrough. It's dangerous. The resistance of the monotheisms to comedy has another, more subtle, cause. The comic point of view?the gods'-eye view?is much more uncomfortable for a believer in one all-powerful God than it was for the polytheistic Greeks. To have the gods laughing at us through our fictions is acceptable if the gods are multiple, and flawed like us, laughing in recognition and sympathy: if they are Greek gods. But to have the single omnipotent, omniscient God who made us laughing at us is a very different thing: sadistic, and almost unbearable. We do not wish to hear the sound of one God laughing. The western comic novel has often had a harsh, judgemental edge. Swift has a hint of Yahweh about him. But the recent death of God has freed a lot of space for the comic novel. Science has given us a high, impersonal, non- judgemental perspective from which to regard ourselves (brilliantly used by Vonnegut in books like Breakfast of Champions). The various eastern philosophies give us other high vantage points. Indeed, both physics and Zen can handle laughter, and are superb tools for writing the western comic novel because they do not require absolute faith and they do not claim absolute certainty. With freedom from a death- obsessed monotheism and new tools, new places from which to view humanity, we should have entered a golden age of comedy. Some writers seized the chance. Evelyn Waugh became perhaps the greatest English novelist of the 20th century by applying a flawless, deadpan, comic technique to everything from modern manners to modern warfare. PG Wodehouse developed the purest comic style of his age but, unlike Waugh, felt no need to apply it to real life. The great comic writers do survive, but are seldom seen as great till much later. The tragic bias remains deep in the industry. And the more original the comic masterpiece, the harder it is to get it through the filters of western commercial publishing. Flann O'Brien's The Third Policeman, one of Ireland's three greatest novels, could not find a publisher in the author's lifetime. John Kennedy Toole's A Confederacy of Dunces was rejected by 36 publishers, and Toole eventually killed himself. Only a decade after his death was it published. Publishing is a form of authority too. No, the novel has not, in general, been able to seize its freedom?it has not gone comic. This has consequences. An unnecessary tragic bias, in something so powerful, will cause a great deal of avoidable suffering. Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther, with its revoltingly sentimental suicide note, depressed a generation and caused a wave of fashionable suicides across Europe. (They even dressed in the same blue frock coat and yellow waistcoat.) Autobiographical novels are particularly revealing of the bias in the culture: in real life Goethe felt no need to kill himself after his heart was broken, but when he wrote a book about it, it had to be a tragedy and the hero had to die. A comedy would have been far more suitable. It might even have led to a cheerful late 18th-century Europe. But no, he gave us the furrow-browed Romantics. Tragically (or comically, depending on your temperament), the bias caused by Aristotle, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus and the church continues today. The youthful brow remains furrowed. It would be useful to look at a representative cross-section of the finest young novelists of the US, the largest and most diverse of the English-speaking nations. A big job, but luckily Granta has just carried out the task for me, and announced its Best of Young American Novelists 2, a list of 21 talents. In his summing up, the chair of the judges, Granta editor Ian Jack, mentions death, sorrow, uncertainty and anxiety. "All I know is that we read many books infused by loss and a feeling that present things would not go on forever." (These writers are mostly in their twenties and early thirties!) At the end, Jack regrets the absence from the list of Joshua Ferris, "whose first novel? had the singular distinction among all these writers of making me laugh aloud quite often." No loud laughter in the whole top 21. Twenty-one Apollos, and not one Dionysus. "Why so sad, people?" as Zadie Smith asks. Well, it's just a habit by now. It's so ingrained in our culture that it has become an unexamined default position. What makes it much worse is that it is now being coached, reinforced. All of the writers on the Granta list attended university creative writing programmes. All, in other words, have submitted to authority. This is a catastrophe for them as novelists. The novel cannot submit to authority. It is written against official language, against officialdom, and against whatever fixed form the novel has begun to take?it is always dying, and always being born. If the literary novel has calcified into genre, the new novelists need to break its underlying, often unspoken rules. To not just question, but to overthrow authority. The novel, at its best, cannot even submit to the authority of the novelist: Gogol burnt his follow- up to Dead Souls because, on reading the book he had just written, he was shocked to find that he profoundly disagreed with it. But the universities are authority or they are nothing. As the west has grown secular, the university has, quite organically, taken over from the church as a cross-border entity claiming universality, claiming to influence the powerful but not to wield power. "Education" is the excuse for a self-perpetuating power structure now, just as "religion" was the excuse then. The modern universities could claim to have no single ideology, but the same could be said of the Vatican under the Medicis, or the Borgias. The problem is not that the universities are malevolent; they are not. They have no sinister intent in taking over the novel, professionalising it, academicising it. Like most of those who colonise territories that were getting on fine without them, they believe they do no great damage, they believe it's for the novel's good, they believe they are benign, idealistic and quite a bit cleverer than the natives. As ever, none of these beliefs is entirely true. The literary novel, by accepting the embrace of the universities, has moved inside the establishment and lost contact with what made it vital. It has, as a result, also lost the mass audience enjoyed by Twain and Dickens. The literary novel?born in Cervantes's prison cell, continued in cellars, bars and rented rooms by Dostoevsky, Joyce and Beckett?is now being written from on high. Not the useful height of the gods, with its sharp, gods'-eye view of all human classes, all human folly, but the distancing, merely human height of the ruling elite, just too high up to see what's happening on the street below. Luckily this situation is self-satirising. Campus authority generates campus comedy. The senior academic novelist is trapped in the small world of the university, cut off from the big world, embodying authority yet still driven to write. In this situation the novel, if it is to live, must turn against the novelist. Malcolm Bradbury and David Lodge, writing novels at night, attacked their day-selves, their academic selves, as absurd buffoons whose work was meaningless. And the novelist in them was right. The university model, any teaching model, of necessity implies that there is a Platonic ideal novel in some other dimension, which has all the characteristics that make for novelness and that the more of these attributes a novel has, the more like a perfect novel it is. This concept works for the tragic, it works for the epic, it works (less well, but it works) for the lyric, it does not work for the novel because, as Mikhail Bakhtin has pointed out, the novel is the only post-Aristotelian literary form. It is not bound by classical rules. It is not bound by any rules. The novel is not a genre. The novel is always novel. The novel is always coming into being. The novel cannot be taught, because the novel does not yet exist. This professionalisation will make poor writers adequate. And will make potentially great writers adequate. Great novelists write for their peers. Poor novelists write for their teachers. If you must please the older generation to pass (a student writing for an older teacher, a teacher writing to secure tenure), you end up with cautious, old-fashioned novels. Worse, the system turns peers into teachers. Destroyed as writers, many are immediately re-employed, teaching creative writing. This is a Ponzi scheme. During their second year, students are offered teaching appointments to teach introductory undergraduate creative writing workshops (ENL 5F or ENL 5P) in their genre or are hired as literature TAs or GSRs. (From the website of the English department at the University of California, Davis) The damage this is causing to novel, writer and audience is particularly advanced in America. The last 30 years have seen the effects of turning novel writing into an academic profession with a career path. As they became professional, writers began to write about writers. As they became academicised, writers began to write about writing. And the language of the American literary novel began to drift away from anything used by human beings anywhere on earth. Thirty years of the feedback loop have led to a kind of generic American literary prose, instantly recognisable, but not as instantly comprehensible. Professions generate private languages designed to keep others out. This is irritating when done by architects. But it is a catastrophe for novelists, and the novel. Lastly, a series of thesis units, which is your writing time guided by your thesis committee members, will fulfil the required 36 units. (From the website of the English department at the University of California, Davis) Much of their fiction contains not so much tragedy as mere anxiety. Pushed to look for tragedy in lives that contain none, to generate suffering in order to be proper writers, they force themselves to frown rather than smile; and their work fills with a self-indulgent anxiety that could perhaps best be called "wangst." To teach is to imply that one would not otherwise learn. Do we teach children to breathe? The illusion that there is a solution comes from the illusion that there is a problem. There is not. The forest is open. Strike out. The novelist's ambition is not to do something better than his predecessors but to see what they did not see, say what they did not say. Flaubert's poetics does not devalue Balzac's, anymore than the discovery of the North Pole renders obsolete the discovery of America. (Milan Kundera, "The Curtain") If I don't like what the novel is doing, do I have any suggestions as to what it should do? Perhaps. The novel grows by theft and observation, both of real life and of other "newer," yet often more conservative art forms. (Cinema was a tremendous influence on Joyce.) The problem with the novels of, say, John Banville is that, although brilliantly written, they steal only from other novels (and a few oil paintings). His is a universe in which the internet does not exist, and television scarcely exists. Yet new art forms, and their delivery systems, change the way we read the novel, and therefore must change the way we write it. This is not a catastrophe; it is an opportunity. We are free to do new things with the novel, which could not have been understood before now. My generation, and those younger, spend a lot of time taking in information not in long, linear, structured, coherent, self-contained units (a film, a novel), but in short bursts, with wildly different tones. A youth spent channel-hopping and surfing the internet rewires the brain. (So does a youth spent reading critical theory: be careful.) See 10,000 Hollywood movies and the journey of the hero becomes utterly predictable: you can see the plot twists and ending coming from the start. Traditional story may have been broken by this overload: certainly it suffers from repetitive strain injury. Television has responded to this crisis. The novel has not. A comparison between The Simpsons and a soap opera is instructive. A soap opera is trapped inside the rules of the format; all soaps resemble each other (like psychologically plausible realist novels). What the makers of The Simpsons did was take a soap opera and put a frame around it: "this is a cartoon about a soap opera." This freed them from the need to map its event-rate on to real life: they could map its event-rate on to cartoon life. A fast event-rate is inherently comic, so the tone is, of necessity, comic. But that is not to say it isn't serious. The Simpsons is profoundly serious. And profoundly comic. Like Aristophanes, debating the war between Athens and Sparta by writing about a sex strike by the women of Athens and beyond. With its cartoon event-rate, a classic series of The Simpsons has more ideas over a broader cultural range than any novel written the same year. The speed, the density of information, the range of reference; the quantity, quality and rich humanity of the jokes?they make almost all contemporary novels seem slow, dour, monotonous and almost empty of ideas. The Sopranos took a more subtle approach to the problem of the broken hero, the broken heroic saga, by deconstructing the hero through psychoanalysis, inside the frame. Twin Peaks and Lost have taken a more ostentatiously radical, metafictive approach to the breakdown of story. Meanwhile, the internet is rapidly becoming Borges's library of Babel, Rushdie's sea of stories: everything is turning up there, in potential promiscuous intercourse with everything else. Everything is happening all at once, in the same place, with no hierarchy. It's as though space and time have collapsed. It's exhilarating, and frightening. Who's capturing that in the novel? Because the novel is the place to capture it. The novel has freedoms which television has not. It can shape and structure multiplicity and chaos in ways the internet cannot. Novelists can take from these new art forms new structures and techniques for telling stories, as Joyce did from cinema. But who has? Weirdly, the modernists have a more accurate take on now than the most recent Booker winners. Finnegans Wake reads like a mash-up of a Google translation of everything ever. But John Banville and Anita Desai read like nostalgia (for Nabokov, for Dickens, for traditional virtues, for the canon). They feel far less contemporary than The Waste Land?which is what Bakhtin would call a novelised poem: a poem that escapes Aristotle's Poetics and hitches a ride on the energy of the novel. As Baudrillard should have said: postmodernism never happened. Since Joyce and Woolf (and Eliot), the novel's wheels have spun in the sand. So steal from The Simpsons, not Henry James. Realistic texture and a cartoon event-rate with a broad range of reference: is this a revolutionary new way of writing the novel? Of course not. It's ancient. Voltaire, for example, did it in Candide. But we keep forgetting. The novel is constantly pushed by the culture towards worthiness, towards Aristotle's Poetics, towards tragedy. The next great novel will do to the contemporary literary novel what Cervantes did to the chivalric romance. It's not that contemporary literary novels are bad. Line by line, book by book, they're often wonderful. But in the same few ways. Who needs more of that? You may think that to praise The Simpsons at the expense of Henry James makes me a barbarian. Well, it does, but I'm a very cultured barbarian. The literary novel has gone late Roman. It needs the barbarians. It secretly yearns for them. It's leading them on. How many novels influenced by Henry James very politely fought it out for the Booker in 2004? GS Frazer, writing about Henry James in 1964, said: "The novelist must recognise that the foundations of the world he walks are dangerously shifting, that we are living in a world of rapid and disturbing change, so that we can neither say with certainty when some new pattern of relative stability will emerge, nor what sort of pattern it might be. Yet the task of the novelist also, since the human heart hungers after permanence, is to project some image of permanence and to give the novel a coherence that life at large does not? possess." This is completely wrong. The task of the novelist is precisely the opposite: not to fake a coherence that does not exist, but to capture the chaos that does. And in so doing, perhaps we shall discover that chaos and permanence are not, in fact, opposed. The novel, self- renewing, self-destroying, always the same, always new, always? novel? is the art of permanent chaos. And to clarify: I don't want everybody to write comedies. I just don't want everybody to write minor, anxious, banal tragedies, without thinking about why they've chosen such a crowded mode. Why all cluster under the one tree when there's a forest to explore? We do not live in tragic times. We do not live in comic times. We live in novel times. Ah well, this praising of comedy at the expense of tragedy has gone on forever. Let us go back to Greece, before Muhammad, before Christ, and let someone else have the last word. In Plato's Symposium, Aristodemus, a bit pissed, has just woken up to find "? there remained awake only Aristophanes, Agathon and Socrates, who were drinking out of a large goblet that was passed around, while Socrates was discoursing to them. Aristodemus did not hear all the discourse, for he was only half awake; but he remembered Socrates insisting to the other two that the genius of comedy was the same as that of tragedy, and that the writer of the one should also be a writer of the other. To this they were compelled to assent, being sleepy, and not quite understanding what he meant. And first Aristophanes fell asleep, and then, when the day was dawning, Agathon." "America loves a successful sociopath." --Gary Indiana Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 25 11:51:21 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:51:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: BigCityLit Message-ID: <8C96CFBACBF5049-B7C-E28@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bigcitylit.com/home.php ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 25 12:16:01 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:16:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emily, Emily, somewhat aslantly, how does your garden grow? Message-ID: <8C96CFF1F1B5751-B7C-F5E@webmail-da11.sysops.aol.com> http://www.amherstbulletin.com/story/id/43244/ Reading Dickinson's garden Published on May 25, 2007 Dozens of books have been written analyzing the poetry and the life of Emily Dickinson. Only recently, however, have writers turned to the subject of her gardens and her love of nature, so integral to her poetry. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drjazz at mac.com Fri May 25 14:07:43 2007 From: drjazz at mac.com (David Graham) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:07:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Lehman Message-ID: <851067BA-0112-1000-AD26-50F469C4DDF1-Webmail-10009@mac.com> August 6 On Charlie Simic's tape of great girl singers from the 1920s I love the song with the lines you're wonderful but I could be wrong I think I'll write a poem in which every second line admits that I could be wrong I'll call it "Poem of the Twentieth Century" every line will begin with a year 1905: Einstein said light consists of quanta & behaves like both waves and particles but I could be wrong 1964: Surgeon General declares smoking hazardous to your health but I could be wrong Some say the century began when you could measure either the position or the velocity of a moving object, not both. I say it began in June 1948 but I could be wrong --David Lehman. *The Daily Mirror: A Journal in Poetry*. Scribner, 2000. ============================== David Graham drjazz at mac.com grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ============================== From jforjames at aol.com Fri May 25 16:47:53 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 16:47:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Accidental Plagiarist: The Trouble with Originality Message-ID: <8C96D2519D31DA9-1B18-1844@FWM-M42.sysops.aol.com> http://www.vqronline.org/articles/2007/spring/campbell-accidental-plagiarist The Accidental Plagiarist: The Trouble with Originality Erik Campbell ? ?Two weeks after mailing out the poem, I had an essay accepted by a very good journal. I was feeling good about myself and decided to celebrate by rereading Dunn?s Loosestrife (1996).[11] Toward the end of the book I suddenly went cold. I suspect that, had my bladder been full, I would have wet myself, in which case (to paraphrase James Joyce) I would have gone warm, and then cold. In the poem ?Parameters? I discovered this line, which I had somehow previously missed: ?Our cats like God have never spoken / a word that wasn?t ours.? The only difference between ?my? line and Dunn?s was the enjambment. I had decidedly, yet unknowingly, committed HP. I was too shocked to try to will myself dead. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From angela.wilson6 at sbcglobal.net Sat May 26 10:15:30 2007 From: angela.wilson6 at sbcglobal.net (angela wilson) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 07:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Virginia Tech Story Message-ID: <95177.24728.qm@web80612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A Innocent young man Put a gun in his hand And blew Innocent students and teachers away Bloodshed everywhere The grim hatered of neglect and despair The anti-social isolated from within Taunted and ridicured by his peers Go back to China they all wailed Drove him to madness His inner-self was locked in hell He painted extreme graphic pictures Of torture and pain Saying they were the blame Those rich little snobs I'll get even, they'll see And I'll be well known throughout the media all over the world So he went to classrooms full of peers and professors and counselors as well And opened fire and blew them all away Saying this is your judgement day Death came to them all Then he turned the gun on himself And to the floor he falls This young man needed help and attention But he was ignored, Society let him slip through the cracks He was rejected when he was going through all that tension Maybe If people had shown him a little kindness And took heed to the warning signs And showed him a little love Maybe he could have been spared And the lives of the students and teachers wouldn't have been lost When you don't pay attention You pay a heavy cost Now the students of Virginia Tech lives are lost Becareful how you treat people Be aware of how far you push someone Stop being cruel because a person is different from you You might push them over the edge And we will have another tragic inicident on our hands May God's grace and mercy shine on The survivers of Virginia Tech And the families that lost their loved ones This is a story we should lay to heart And never ever forget Angela Wilson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat May 26 11:36:17 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 11:36:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Music and speech Message-ID: _http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070524145005.htm_ (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070524145005.htm) Source: Duke University Date: May 25, 2007 More on: Acoustics, Language Acquisition, Perception, Child Development, Social Psychology, Neuroscience Essential Tones Of Music Rooted In Human Speech Science Daily ? The use of 12 tone intervals in the music of many human cultures is rooted in the physics of how our vocal anatomy produces speech, according to researchers at the Duke University Center for Cognitive Neuroscience. The particular notes used in music sound right to our ears because of the way our vocal apparatus makes the sounds used in all human languages, said Dale Purves, the George Barth Geller Professor for Research in Neurobiology. It's not something one can hear directly, but when the sounds of speech are looked at with a spectrum analyzer, the relationships between the various frequencies that a speaker uses to make vowel sounds correspond neatly with the relationships between notes of the 12-tone chromatic scale of music, Purves said. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley at overdomain.com Sat May 26 15:09:44 2007 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 14:09:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy In-Reply-To: <200705251422.l4PEMjit013012@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705251422.l4PEMjit013012@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <16317D68-C342-4E3B-9237-BADBEC3EDB66@overdomain.com> Mx. Gough speaks truly, aye, verily, verily-- but has neglected some seriously funny boox, to wit: Lucius Apuleis, _The Golden Ass_, L. Sterne, _Tristram Shandy_, M. Twain, _Hucky Finn_, T. Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_ ... Who are the great funny poets? > Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:08:01 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Divine Comedy > > Ignore this at your peril. > > Hal > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: prospect-logo.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 53781 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ > 20070525/65e7d25c/prospect-logo.jpg > -------------- next part -------------- > > Issue 134 , May 2007 > Divine Comedy > by Julian Gough > > The Greeks understood that comedy (the gods' view of life) is > superior to tragedy (the merely human). But since the middle ages, > western culture has overvalued the tragic and undervalued the comic. > This is why fiction today is so full of anxiety and suffering. It's > time writers got back to the serious business of making us laugh > Julian Gough's comic short story "The orphan and the mob" (published > in Prospect, March 2006) has won the 2007 National Short Story prize > What is wrong with the modern literary novel? Why is it so worthy and > dull? Why is it so anxious? Why is it so bloody boring? > > Well, let's go back a bit first. Two and a half thousand years ago, > at the time of Aristophanes, the Greeks believed that comedy was > superior to tragedy: tragedy was the merely human view of life (we > sicken, we die). But comedy was the gods' view, from on high: our > endless and repetitive cycle of suffering, our horror of it, our > inability to escape it. The big, drunk, flawed, horny Greek gods > watched us for entertainment, like a dirty, funny, violent, > repetitive cartoon. And the best of the old Greek comedy tried to > give us that relaxed, amused perspective on our flawed selves. We > became as gods, laughing at our own follies. > > Many of the finest novels?and certainly the novels I love most?are in > the Greek comic tradition, rather than the tragic: Rabelais, > Cervantes, Swift, Voltaire, and on through to Joseph Heller's > Catch-22 and the late Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5. > > Yet western culture since the middle ages has overvalued the tragic > and undervalued the comic. We think of tragedy as major, and comedy > as minor. Brilliant comedies never win the best film Oscar. The > Booker prize leans toward the tragic. In 1984, Martin Amis reinvented > Rabelais in his comic masterpiece Money. The best English novel of > the 1980s, it didn't even make the shortlist. Anita Brookner won that > year, for Hotel du Lac, written, as the Observer put it, "with a > beautiful grave formality." > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Essay_Gough_1.gif > Type: image/gif > Size: 11172 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ > 20070525/65e7d25c/Essay_Gough_1.gif > -------------- next part -------------- > > The fault is in the culture. But it is also internalised in the > writers, who self-limit and self-censor. If the subject is big, > difficult and serious, the writer tends to believe the treatment must > be in the tragic mode. When Amis addressed the Holocaust in his minor > novel Time's Arrow (1991), he switched off the jokes, and the energy, > and was rewarded with his only Booker shortlisting. > > But why this pressure, from within and without? There are two good > reasons. The first is the west's unexamined cultural cringe before > the Greeks. For most of the last 500 years, Homer and Sophocles have > been held to be the supreme exponents of their arts. (Even Homer's > constant repetition of stock phrases like "rosy-fingered dawn" and > "wine-dark sea" are praised, rather than recognised as tiresome > clich?s.) > > The second reason is that our classical inheritance is lop-sided. We > have a rich range of tragedies?Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides (18 > by Euripides alone). Of the comic writers, only Aristophanes > survived. In an age of kings, time is a filter that works against > comedy. Plays that say, "Boy, it's a tough job, leading a nation" > tend to survive; plays that say, "Our leaders are dumb arseholes, > just like us" tend not to. > > More importantly, Aristotle's work on tragedy survived; his work on > comedy did not. We have the classical rules for the one but not the > other, and this has biased the development of all western literature. > We've been off-centre ever since. > > But of course Europe in the middle ages was peculiarly primed to > rediscover tragedy: the one church spoke in one voice, drawn from one > book, and that book was at heart tragic. All of human history, from > the creation, was a story that climaxed with the sadistic murder of a > man by those he was trying to save, whose fatal flaw was that he was > perfect in an imperfect world. The nicest man ever, he is murdered by > everybody. Not only is this tragedy; it is kitsch tragedy, overegged, > a joke. It cannot survive laughter, it is too vulnerable to it. And > the Bible, from apple to Armageddon, does not contain a single joke. > > The church spoke with one voice because it was on such shaky > foundations. The largest and richest property empire of all time had > somehow been built on the gospel of the poor. All other voices had to > be suppressed, even dissenting gospels. Only once a year, in > carnival, on the feast of fools, could the unsayable be said. A fool > was crowned king, and gave a fool's sermon from the altar that > reversed the usual pieties. But these speeches could not be written > down or circulated. They existed in the air, for a day, and were > gone. By the late middle ages, the paralysis was almost total. If you > change one word of the old Vulgate Bible, the whole thing comes under > suspicion. All you could hear was a single voice reading a single > book, the Vulgate, a Latin translation from a Greek original. When > Erasmus finally retranslated the Bible, threw it open to > interpretation, he caused a crisis that ultimately tore the church > apart. > > The problem is not specific to Christianity. Islam has always had a > problem with comedy at its expense, as Salman Rushdie showed in The > Satanic Verses. In Medina, in year two of the Hijra migration, with > Mecca not yet fallen, the Prophet asked the faithful to kill the > Jewish-Arab poet Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf for reciting his poems satirising > the Prophet (and joking about Muslim women). The faithful obliged. > > It is interesting, but unsurprising, that all the satirists murdered > and allegedly murdered on Muhammad's orders were, among other things, > Jewish. With its vigorous tradition of Talmudic debate, and with no > Jewish state to stifle or control that debate, Judaism never fell > into the paralysis of the younger monotheisms. It was, to put it > mildly, never state-approved. Judaism, excluded from the > establishment in so many Christian and Muslim nations, has > consequently produced a high proportion of the world's great > satirists, comedians and novelists. And, in Yiddish, it produced > perhaps the world's first compulsively comic, anti-authoritarian > language, with its structural mockery of high German. > > In Christian Europe, the Renaissance rediscovery of the classical > texts occurred when the habit of submission to authority was at its > most extreme. When printing was invented, no one thought to use it > for anything other than the Christian Bible, for that was the myth of > Europe, the one true myth. > > As writers began moving cautiously away from the theological shore, > they still felt the need for a holy book to guide them, to tell them > how to write. Aristotle's Poetics provided that. If you wanted to > write tragedy or epic, here were the rules. You need not think for > yourself. It's particularly sad to see the narrowness of subject > matter and style in the pictorial art of the era?Madonna after pink- > cheeked Madonna, saint after martyred saint. So much talent, all > wasted doing the Renaissance equivalent of Soviet realist art. > > And then something astonishing happened: the invention of the novel > privatised myth, because the novel, invented after Aristotle, did not > have a holy book. The novelist was on his own. Sometimes he's even a > she. There were no rules. The chaos of carnival had found its form. > The fool's sermon could be published, could live on. All you learned > from Rabelais or Cervantes was to mock everything sacred, all that > went before. Including them. > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Essay_Gough_2.gif > Type: image/gif > Size: 12679 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ > 20070525/65e7d25c/Essay_Gough_2.gif > -------------- next part -------------- > > And the reaction was fierce. Rabelais was jailed for his wild > comedies. Voltaire, praised for his early tragedies, was jailed for > his satires. Cervantes apparently started Don Quixote in a debtors' > prison. All had to flee town on occasion for fear of worse. Printing > had to be done abroad, in secret, and the books smuggled to their > destinations. The early years of the novel look remarkably like a > guerrilla war, as pro-Bible forces try to put down the insurgency of > the novel across Europe. Both were fighting for the same piece of > territory: the territory inside your head. > > Now a man could invent his own myth and spread it across the world. > And the reader, head bowed over the novel, could have a vision > without religion: a full vision, transmitted through space and time > by marks on paper, using the novelist's arts. > > The novel, when done right?when done to the best of the novelist's > abilities, talent at full stretch?is always greater than the > novelist. It is more intelligent. It is more vast. It can change your > entire internal world. Of course, so can a scientific truth. So can a > religious experience. So can some drugs. So can a sublime event in > nature. But the novel operates on that high level. Sitting there, > alone, quite still, you laugh, you murmur, you cry, and you can come > out of it with a new worldview, in a new reality. It's a controlled > breakdown, or breakthrough. It's dangerous. > > The resistance of the monotheisms to comedy has another, more subtle, > cause. The comic point of view?the gods'-eye view?is much more > uncomfortable for a believer in one all-powerful God than it was for > the polytheistic Greeks. To have the gods laughing at us through our > fictions is acceptable if the gods are multiple, and flawed like us, > laughing in recognition and sympathy: if they are Greek gods. But to > have the single omnipotent, omniscient God who made us laughing at us > is a very different thing: sadistic, and almost unbearable. We do not > wish to hear the sound of one God laughing. The western comic novel > has often had a harsh, judgemental edge. Swift has a hint of Yahweh > about him. But the recent death of God has freed a lot of space for > the comic novel. Science has given us a high, impersonal, non- > judgemental perspective from which to regard ourselves (brilliantly > used by Vonnegut in books like Breakfast of Champions). The various > eastern philosophies give us other high vantage points. Indeed, both > physics and Zen can handle laughter, and are superb tools for writing > the western comic novel because they do not require absolute faith > and they do not claim absolute certainty. With freedom from a death- > obsessed monotheism and new tools, new places from which to view > humanity, we should have entered a golden age of comedy. > > Some writers seized the chance. Evelyn Waugh became perhaps the > greatest English novelist of the 20th century by applying a flawless, > deadpan, comic technique to everything from modern manners to modern > warfare. PG Wodehouse developed the purest comic style of his age > but, unlike Waugh, felt no need to apply it to real life. The great > comic writers do survive, but are seldom seen as great till much > later. The tragic bias remains deep in the industry. And the more > original the comic masterpiece, the harder it is to get it through > the filters of western commercial publishing. Flann O'Brien's The > Third Policeman, one of Ireland's three greatest novels, could not > find a publisher in the author's lifetime. John Kennedy Toole's A > Confederacy of Dunces was rejected by 36 publishers, and Toole > eventually killed himself. Only a decade after his death was it > published. Publishing is a form of authority too. > > No, the novel has not, in general, been able to seize its freedom?it > has not gone comic. This has consequences. An unnecessary tragic > bias, in something so powerful, will cause a great deal of avoidable > suffering. Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther, with its > revoltingly sentimental suicide note, depressed a generation and > caused a wave of fashionable suicides across Europe. (They even > dressed in the same blue frock coat and yellow waistcoat.) > Autobiographical novels are particularly revealing of the bias in the > culture: in real life Goethe felt no need to kill himself after his > heart was broken, but when he wrote a book about it, it had to be a > tragedy and the hero had to die. A comedy would have been far more > suitable. It might even have led to a cheerful late 18th-century > Europe. But no, he gave us the furrow-browed Romantics. > > Tragically (or comically, depending on your temperament), the bias > caused by Aristotle, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus and the church > continues today. The youthful brow remains furrowed. > > It would be useful to look at a representative cross-section of the > finest young novelists of the US, the largest and most diverse of the > English-speaking nations. A big job, but luckily Granta has just > carried out the task for me, and announced its Best of Young American > Novelists 2, a list of 21 talents. In his summing up, the chair of > the judges, Granta editor Ian Jack, mentions death, sorrow, > uncertainty and anxiety. "All I know is that we read many books > infused by loss and a feeling that present things would not go on > forever." (These writers are mostly in their twenties and early > thirties!) At the end, Jack regrets the absence from the list of > Joshua Ferris, "whose first novel? had the singular distinction among > all these writers of making me laugh aloud quite often." > > No loud laughter in the whole top 21. Twenty-one Apollos, and not one > Dionysus. > > "Why so sad, people?" as Zadie Smith asks. > > Well, it's just a habit by now. It's so ingrained in our culture that > it has become an unexamined default position. What makes it much > worse is that it is now being coached, reinforced. All of the writers > on the Granta list attended university creative writing programmes. > All, in other words, have submitted to authority. This is a > catastrophe for them as novelists. > > The novel cannot submit to authority. It is written against official > language, against officialdom, and against whatever fixed form the > novel has begun to take?it is always dying, and always being born. > > If the literary novel has calcified into genre, the new novelists > need to break its underlying, often unspoken rules. To not just > question, but to overthrow authority. The novel, at its best, cannot > even submit to the authority of the novelist: Gogol burnt his follow- > up to Dead Souls because, on reading the book he had just written, he > was shocked to find that he profoundly disagreed with it. > > But the universities are authority or they are nothing. As the west > has grown secular, the university has, quite organically, taken over > from the church as a cross-border entity claiming universality, > claiming to influence the powerful but not to wield power. > "Education" is the excuse for a self-perpetuating power structure > now, just as "religion" was the excuse then. The modern universities > could claim to have no single ideology, but the same could be said of > the Vatican under the Medicis, or the Borgias. > > The problem is not that the universities are malevolent; they are > not. They have no sinister intent in taking over the novel, > professionalising it, academicising it. Like most of those who > colonise territories that were getting on fine without them, they > believe they do no great damage, they believe it's for the novel's > good, they believe they are benign, idealistic and quite a bit > cleverer than the natives. As ever, none of these beliefs is entirely > true. > > The literary novel, by accepting the embrace of the universities, has > moved inside the establishment and lost contact with what made it > vital. It has, as a result, also lost the mass audience enjoyed by > Twain and Dickens. The literary novel?born in Cervantes's prison > cell, continued in cellars, bars and rented rooms by Dostoevsky, > Joyce and Beckett?is now being written from on high. Not the useful > height of the gods, with its sharp, gods'-eye view of all human > classes, all human folly, but the distancing, merely human height of > the ruling elite, just too high up to see what's happening on the > street below. > > Luckily this situation is self-satirising. Campus authority generates > campus comedy. The senior academic novelist is trapped in the small > world of the university, cut off from the big world, embodying > authority yet still driven to write. In this situation the novel, if > it is to live, must turn against the novelist. Malcolm Bradbury and > David Lodge, writing novels at night, attacked their day-selves, > their academic selves, as absurd buffoons whose work was meaningless. > And the novelist in them was right. > > The university model, any teaching model, of necessity implies that > there is a Platonic ideal novel in some other dimension, which has > all the characteristics that make for novelness and that the more of > these attributes a novel has, the more like a perfect novel it is. > This concept works for the tragic, it works for the epic, it works > (less well, but it works) for the lyric, it does not work for the > novel because, as Mikhail Bakhtin has pointed out, the novel is the > only post-Aristotelian literary form. It is not bound by classical > rules. It is not bound by any rules. The novel is not a genre. The > novel is always novel. The novel is always coming into being. The > novel cannot be taught, because the novel does not yet exist. > > This professionalisation will make poor writers adequate. And will > make potentially great writers adequate. Great novelists write for > their peers. Poor novelists write for their teachers. If you must > please the older generation to pass (a student writing for an older > teacher, a teacher writing to secure tenure), you end up with > cautious, old-fashioned novels. Worse, the system turns peers into > teachers. Destroyed as writers, many are immediately re-employed, > teaching creative writing. This is a Ponzi scheme. > > During their second year, students are offered teaching appointments > to teach introductory undergraduate creative writing workshops (ENL > 5F or ENL 5P) in their genre or are hired as literature TAs or GSRs. > (From the website of the English department at the University of > California, Davis) > > The damage this is causing to novel, writer and audience is > particularly advanced in America. The last 30 years have seen the > effects of turning novel writing into an academic profession with a > career path. As they became professional, writers began to write > about writers. As they became academicised, writers began to write > about writing. > > And the language of the American literary novel began to drift away > from anything used by human beings anywhere on earth. Thirty years of > the feedback loop have led to a kind of generic American literary > prose, instantly recognisable, but not as instantly comprehensible. > Professions generate private languages designed to keep others out. > This is irritating when done by architects. But it is a catastrophe > for novelists, and the novel. > > Lastly, a series of thesis units, which is your writing time guided > by your thesis committee members, will fulfil the required 36 units. > (From the website of the English department at the University of > California, Davis) > > Much of their fiction contains not so much tragedy as mere anxiety. > Pushed to look for tragedy in lives that contain none, to generate > suffering in order to be proper writers, they force themselves to > frown rather than smile; and their work fills with a self-indulgent > anxiety that could perhaps best be called "wangst." > > To teach is to imply that one would not otherwise learn. Do we teach > children to breathe? The illusion that there is a solution comes from > the illusion that there is a problem. There is not. The forest is > open. Strike out. > > The novelist's ambition is not to do something better than his > predecessors but to see what they did not see, say what they did not > say. Flaubert's poetics does not devalue Balzac's, anymore than the > discovery of the North Pole renders obsolete the discovery of > America. (Milan Kundera, "The Curtain") > > If I don't like what the novel is doing, do I have any suggestions as > to what it should do? Perhaps. > > The novel grows by theft and observation, both of real life and of > other "newer," yet often more conservative art forms. (Cinema was a > tremendous influence on Joyce.) The problem with the novels of, say, > John Banville is that, although brilliantly written, they steal only > from other novels (and a few oil paintings). His is a universe in > which the internet does not exist, and television scarcely exists. > Yet new art forms, and their delivery systems, change the way we read > the novel, and therefore must change the way we write it. This is not > a catastrophe; it is an opportunity. We are free to do new things > with the novel, which could not have been understood before now. > > My generation, and those younger, spend a lot of time taking in > information not in long, linear, structured, coherent, self-contained > units (a film, a novel), but in short bursts, with wildly different > tones. A youth spent channel-hopping and surfing the internet rewires > the brain. (So does a youth spent reading critical theory: be > careful.) See 10,000 Hollywood movies and the journey of the hero > becomes utterly predictable: you can see the plot twists and ending > coming from the start. Traditional story may have been broken by this > overload: certainly it suffers from repetitive strain injury. > Television has responded to this crisis. The novel has not. > > A comparison between The Simpsons and a soap opera is instructive. A > soap opera is trapped inside the rules of the format; all soaps > resemble each other (like psychologically plausible realist novels). > What the makers of The Simpsons did was take a soap opera and put a > frame around it: "this is a cartoon about a soap opera." This freed > them from the need to map its event-rate on to real life: they could > map its event-rate on to cartoon life. A fast event-rate is > inherently comic, so the tone is, of necessity, comic. But that is > not to say it isn't serious. The Simpsons is profoundly serious. And > profoundly comic. Like Aristophanes, debating the war between Athens > and Sparta by writing about a sex strike by the women of Athens and > beyond. > > With its cartoon event-rate, a classic series of The Simpsons has > more ideas over a broader cultural range than any novel written the > same year. The speed, the density of information, the range of > reference; the quantity, quality and rich humanity of the jokes?they > make almost all contemporary novels seem slow, dour, monotonous and > almost empty of ideas. > > The Sopranos took a more subtle approach to the problem of the broken > hero, the broken heroic saga, by deconstructing the hero through > psychoanalysis, inside the frame. Twin Peaks and Lost have taken a > more ostentatiously radical, metafictive approach to the breakdown of > story. > > Meanwhile, the internet is rapidly becoming Borges's library of > Babel, Rushdie's sea of stories: everything is turning up there, in > potential promiscuous intercourse with everything else. Everything is > happening all at once, in the same place, with no hierarchy. It's as > though space and time have collapsed. It's exhilarating, and > frightening. Who's capturing that in the novel? Because the novel is > the place to capture it. The novel has freedoms which television has > not. It can shape and structure multiplicity and chaos in ways the > internet cannot. > > Novelists can take from these new art forms new structures and > techniques for telling stories, as Joyce did from cinema. But who > has? Weirdly, the modernists have a more accurate take on now than > the most recent Booker winners. Finnegans Wake reads like a mash-up > of a Google translation of everything ever. But John Banville and > Anita Desai read like nostalgia (for Nabokov, for Dickens, for > traditional virtues, for the canon). They feel far less contemporary > than The Waste Land?which is what Bakhtin would call a novelised > poem: a poem that escapes Aristotle's Poetics and hitches a ride on > the energy of the novel. As Baudrillard should have said: > postmodernism never happened. Since Joyce and Woolf (and Eliot), the > novel's wheels have spun in the sand. > > So steal from The Simpsons, not Henry James. > > Realistic texture and a cartoon event-rate with a broad range of > reference: is this a revolutionary new way of writing the novel? Of > course not. It's ancient. Voltaire, for example, did it in Candide. > But we keep forgetting. The novel is constantly pushed by the culture > towards worthiness, towards Aristotle's Poetics, towards tragedy. The > next great novel will do to the contemporary literary novel what > Cervantes did to the chivalric romance. It's not that contemporary > literary novels are bad. Line by line, book by book, they're often > wonderful. But in the same few ways. Who needs more of that? > > You may think that to praise The Simpsons at the expense of Henry > James makes me a barbarian. Well, it does, but I'm a very cultured > barbarian. The literary novel has gone late Roman. It needs the > barbarians. It secretly yearns for them. It's leading them on. How > many novels influenced by Henry James very politely fought it out for > the Booker in 2004? > > GS Frazer, writing about Henry James in 1964, said: "The novelist > must recognise that the foundations of the world he walks are > dangerously shifting, that we are living in a world of rapid and > disturbing change, so that we can neither say with certainty when > some new pattern of relative stability will emerge, nor what sort of > pattern it might be. Yet the task of the novelist also, since the > human heart hungers after permanence, is to project some image of > permanence and to give the novel a coherence that life at large does > not? possess." > > This is completely wrong. The task of the novelist is precisely the > opposite: not to fake a coherence that does not exist, but to capture > the chaos that does. And in so doing, perhaps we shall discover that > chaos and permanence are not, in fact, opposed. The novel, self- > renewing, self-destroying, always the same, always new, always? > novel? is the art of permanent chaos. > > And to clarify: I don't want everybody to write comedies. I just > don't want everybody to write minor, anxious, banal tragedies, > without thinking about why they've chosen such a crowded mode. Why > all cluster under the one tree when there's a forest to explore? We > do not live in tragic times. We do not live in comic times. We live > in novel times. > > Ah well, this praising of comedy at the expense of tragedy has gone > on forever. Let us go back to Greece, before Muhammad, before Christ, > and let someone else have the last word. In Plato's Symposium, > Aristodemus, a bit pissed, has just woken up to find "? there > remained awake only Aristophanes, Agathon and Socrates, who were > drinking out of a large goblet that was passed around, while Socrates > was discoursing to them. Aristodemus did not hear all the discourse, > for he was only half awake; but he remembered Socrates insisting to > the other two that the genius of comedy was the same as that of > tragedy, and that the writer of the one should also be a writer of > the other. To this they were compelled to assent, being sleepy, and > not quite understanding what he meant. And first Aristophanes fell > asleep, and then, when the day was dawning, Agathon." > > "America loves a successful sociopath." > --Gary Indiana > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 35, Issue 35 > ****************************************** > From halvard at earthlink.net Sat May 26 15:49:14 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 14:49:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy In-Reply-To: <16317D68-C342-4E3B-9237-BADBEC3EDB66@overdomain.com> References: <200705251422.l4PEMjit013012@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <16317D68-C342-4E3B-9237-BADBEC3EDB66@overdomain.com> Message-ID: Oh my, this is the conventional anthology critique: "But where are X and Y and Z?" "Who are the great funny poets?" is an interesting question, although I'm not sure that the comic is always funny. I'll nominate Shakespeare for starters. Pile on. Hal "Take what you can use and let the rest go by." --Ken Kesey Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 26, 2007, at 2:09 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Mx. Gough speaks truly, aye, verily, verily-- but has neglected > some seriously funny boox, to wit: Lucius Apuleis, _The Golden > Ass_, L. Sterne, _Tristram Shandy_, M. Twain, _Hucky Finn_, T. > Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_ ... > > Who are the great funny poets? > >> Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:08:01 -0500 >> From: Halvard Johnson >> Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Divine Comedy >> >> Ignore this at your peril. >> >> Hal >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: prospect-logo.jpg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 53781 bytes >> Desc: not available >> Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ >> 20070525/65e7d25c/prospect-logo.jpg >> -------------- next part -------------- >> >> Issue 134 , May 2007 >> Divine Comedy >> by Julian Gough >> >> The Greeks understood that comedy (the gods' view of life) is >> superior to tragedy (the merely human). But since the middle ages, >> western culture has overvalued the tragic and undervalued the comic. >> This is why fiction today is so full of anxiety and suffering. It's >> time writers got back to the serious business of making us laugh >> Julian Gough's comic short story "The orphan and the mob" (published >> in Prospect, March 2006) has won the 2007 National Short Story prize >> What is wrong with the modern literary novel? Why is it so worthy and >> dull? Why is it so anxious? Why is it so bloody boring? >> >> Well, let's go back a bit first. Two and a half thousand years ago, >> at the time of Aristophanes, the Greeks believed that comedy was >> superior to tragedy: tragedy was the merely human view of life (we >> sicken, we die). But comedy was the gods' view, from on high: our >> endless and repetitive cycle of suffering, our horror of it, our >> inability to escape it. The big, drunk, flawed, horny Greek gods >> watched us for entertainment, like a dirty, funny, violent, >> repetitive cartoon. And the best of the old Greek comedy tried to >> give us that relaxed, amused perspective on our flawed selves. We >> became as gods, laughing at our own follies. >> >> Many of the finest novels?and certainly the novels I love most?are in >> the Greek comic tradition, rather than the tragic: Rabelais, >> Cervantes, Swift, Voltaire, and on through to Joseph Heller's >> Catch-22 and the late Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5. >> >> Yet western culture since the middle ages has overvalued the tragic >> and undervalued the comic. We think of tragedy as major, and comedy >> as minor. Brilliant comedies never win the best film Oscar. The >> Booker prize leans toward the tragic. In 1984, Martin Amis reinvented >> Rabelais in his comic masterpiece Money. The best English novel of >> the 1980s, it didn't even make the shortlist. Anita Brookner won that >> year, for Hotel du Lac, written, as the Observer put it, "with a >> beautiful grave formality." >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: Essay_Gough_1.gif >> Type: image/gif >> Size: 11172 bytes >> Desc: not available >> Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ >> 20070525/65e7d25c/Essay_Gough_1.gif >> -------------- next part -------------- >> >> The fault is in the culture. But it is also internalised in the >> writers, who self-limit and self-censor. If the subject is big, >> difficult and serious, the writer tends to believe the treatment must >> be in the tragic mode. When Amis addressed the Holocaust in his minor >> novel Time's Arrow (1991), he switched off the jokes, and the energy, >> and was rewarded with his only Booker shortlisting. >> >> But why this pressure, from within and without? There are two good >> reasons. The first is the west's unexamined cultural cringe before >> the Greeks. For most of the last 500 years, Homer and Sophocles have >> been held to be the supreme exponents of their arts. (Even Homer's >> constant repetition of stock phrases like "rosy-fingered dawn" and >> "wine-dark sea" are praised, rather than recognised as tiresome >> clich?s.) >> >> The second reason is that our classical inheritance is lop-sided. We >> have a rich range of tragedies?Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides (18 >> by Euripides alone). Of the comic writers, only Aristophanes >> survived. In an age of kings, time is a filter that works against >> comedy. Plays that say, "Boy, it's a tough job, leading a nation" >> tend to survive; plays that say, "Our leaders are dumb arseholes, >> just like us" tend not to. >> >> More importantly, Aristotle's work on tragedy survived; his work on >> comedy did not. We have the classical rules for the one but not the >> other, and this has biased the development of all western literature. >> We've been off-centre ever since. >> >> But of course Europe in the middle ages was peculiarly primed to >> rediscover tragedy: the one church spoke in one voice, drawn from one >> book, and that book was at heart tragic. All of human history, from >> the creation, was a story that climaxed with the sadistic murder of a >> man by those he was trying to save, whose fatal flaw was that he was >> perfect in an imperfect world. The nicest man ever, he is murdered by >> everybody. Not only is this tragedy; it is kitsch tragedy, overegged, >> a joke. It cannot survive laughter, it is too vulnerable to it. And >> the Bible, from apple to Armageddon, does not contain a single joke. >> >> The church spoke with one voice because it was on such shaky >> foundations. The largest and richest property empire of all time had >> somehow been built on the gospel of the poor. All other voices had to >> be suppressed, even dissenting gospels. Only once a year, in >> carnival, on the feast of fools, could the unsayable be said. A fool >> was crowned king, and gave a fool's sermon from the altar that >> reversed the usual pieties. But these speeches could not be written >> down or circulated. They existed in the air, for a day, and were >> gone. By the late middle ages, the paralysis was almost total. If you >> change one word of the old Vulgate Bible, the whole thing comes under >> suspicion. All you could hear was a single voice reading a single >> book, the Vulgate, a Latin translation from a Greek original. When >> Erasmus finally retranslated the Bible, threw it open to >> interpretation, he caused a crisis that ultimately tore the church >> apart. >> >> The problem is not specific to Christianity. Islam has always had a >> problem with comedy at its expense, as Salman Rushdie showed in The >> Satanic Verses. In Medina, in year two of the Hijra migration, with >> Mecca not yet fallen, the Prophet asked the faithful to kill the >> Jewish-Arab poet Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf for reciting his poems satirising >> the Prophet (and joking about Muslim women). The faithful obliged. >> >> It is interesting, but unsurprising, that all the satirists murdered >> and allegedly murdered on Muhammad's orders were, among other things, >> Jewish. With its vigorous tradition of Talmudic debate, and with no >> Jewish state to stifle or control that debate, Judaism never fell >> into the paralysis of the younger monotheisms. It was, to put it >> mildly, never state-approved. Judaism, excluded from the >> establishment in so many Christian and Muslim nations, has >> consequently produced a high proportion of the world's great >> satirists, comedians and novelists. And, in Yiddish, it produced >> perhaps the world's first compulsively comic, anti-authoritarian >> language, with its structural mockery of high German. >> >> In Christian Europe, the Renaissance rediscovery of the classical >> texts occurred when the habit of submission to authority was at its >> most extreme. When printing was invented, no one thought to use it >> for anything other than the Christian Bible, for that was the myth of >> Europe, the one true myth. >> >> As writers began moving cautiously away from the theological shore, >> they still felt the need for a holy book to guide them, to tell them >> how to write. Aristotle's Poetics provided that. If you wanted to >> write tragedy or epic, here were the rules. You need not think for >> yourself. It's particularly sad to see the narrowness of subject >> matter and style in the pictorial art of the era?Madonna after pink- >> cheeked Madonna, saint after martyred saint. So much talent, all >> wasted doing the Renaissance equivalent of Soviet realist art. >> >> And then something astonishing happened: the invention of the novel >> privatised myth, because the novel, invented after Aristotle, did not >> have a holy book. The novelist was on his own. Sometimes he's even a >> she. There were no rules. The chaos of carnival had found its form. >> The fool's sermon could be published, could live on. All you learned >> from Rabelais or Cervantes was to mock everything sacred, all that >> went before. Including them. >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: Essay_Gough_2.gif >> Type: image/gif >> Size: 12679 bytes >> Desc: not available >> Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ >> 20070525/65e7d25c/Essay_Gough_2.gif >> -------------- next part -------------- >> >> And the reaction was fierce. Rabelais was jailed for his wild >> comedies. Voltaire, praised for his early tragedies, was jailed for >> his satires. Cervantes apparently started Don Quixote in a debtors' >> prison. All had to flee town on occasion for fear of worse. Printing >> had to be done abroad, in secret, and the books smuggled to their >> destinations. The early years of the novel look remarkably like a >> guerrilla war, as pro-Bible forces try to put down the insurgency of >> the novel across Europe. Both were fighting for the same piece of >> territory: the territory inside your head. >> >> Now a man could invent his own myth and spread it across the world. >> And the reader, head bowed over the novel, could have a vision >> without religion: a full vision, transmitted through space and time >> by marks on paper, using the novelist's arts. >> >> The novel, when done right?when done to the best of the novelist's >> abilities, talent at full stretch?is always greater than the >> novelist. It is more intelligent. It is more vast. It can change your >> entire internal world. Of course, so can a scientific truth. So can a >> religious experience. So can some drugs. So can a sublime event in >> nature. But the novel operates on that high level. Sitting there, >> alone, quite still, you laugh, you murmur, you cry, and you can come >> out of it with a new worldview, in a new reality. It's a controlled >> breakdown, or breakthrough. It's dangerous. >> >> The resistance of the monotheisms to comedy has another, more subtle, >> cause. The comic point of view?the gods'-eye view?is much more >> uncomfortable for a believer in one all-powerful God than it was for >> the polytheistic Greeks. To have the gods laughing at us through our >> fictions is acceptable if the gods are multiple, and flawed like us, >> laughing in recognition and sympathy: if they are Greek gods. But to >> have the single omnipotent, omniscient God who made us laughing at us >> is a very different thing: sadistic, and almost unbearable. We do not >> wish to hear the sound of one God laughing. The western comic novel >> has often had a harsh, judgemental edge. Swift has a hint of Yahweh >> about him. But the recent death of God has freed a lot of space for >> the comic novel. Science has given us a high, impersonal, non- >> judgemental perspective from which to regard ourselves (brilliantly >> used by Vonnegut in books like Breakfast of Champions). The various >> eastern philosophies give us other high vantage points. Indeed, both >> physics and Zen can handle laughter, and are superb tools for writing >> the western comic novel because they do not require absolute faith >> and they do not claim absolute certainty. With freedom from a death- >> obsessed monotheism and new tools, new places from which to view >> humanity, we should have entered a golden age of comedy. >> >> Some writers seized the chance. Evelyn Waugh became perhaps the >> greatest English novelist of the 20th century by applying a flawless, >> deadpan, comic technique to everything from modern manners to modern >> warfare. PG Wodehouse developed the purest comic style of his age >> but, unlike Waugh, felt no need to apply it to real life. The great >> comic writers do survive, but are seldom seen as great till much >> later. The tragic bias remains deep in the industry. And the more >> original the comic masterpiece, the harder it is to get it through >> the filters of western commercial publishing. Flann O'Brien's The >> Third Policeman, one of Ireland's three greatest novels, could not >> find a publisher in the author's lifetime. John Kennedy Toole's A >> Confederacy of Dunces was rejected by 36 publishers, and Toole >> eventually killed himself. Only a decade after his death was it >> published. Publishing is a form of authority too. >> >> No, the novel has not, in general, been able to seize its freedom?it >> has not gone comic. This has consequences. An unnecessary tragic >> bias, in something so powerful, will cause a great deal of avoidable >> suffering. Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther, with its >> revoltingly sentimental suicide note, depressed a generation and >> caused a wave of fashionable suicides across Europe. (They even >> dressed in the same blue frock coat and yellow waistcoat.) >> Autobiographical novels are particularly revealing of the bias in the >> culture: in real life Goethe felt no need to kill himself after his >> heart was broken, but when he wrote a book about it, it had to be a >> tragedy and the hero had to die. A comedy would have been far more >> suitable. It might even have led to a cheerful late 18th-century >> Europe. But no, he gave us the furrow-browed Romantics. >> >> Tragically (or comically, depending on your temperament), the bias >> caused by Aristotle, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus and the church >> continues today. The youthful brow remains furrowed. >> >> It would be useful to look at a representative cross-section of the >> finest young novelists of the US, the largest and most diverse of the >> English-speaking nations. A big job, but luckily Granta has just >> carried out the task for me, and announced its Best of Young American >> Novelists 2, a list of 21 talents. In his summing up, the chair of >> the judges, Granta editor Ian Jack, mentions death, sorrow, >> uncertainty and anxiety. "All I know is that we read many books >> infused by loss and a feeling that present things would not go on >> forever." (These writers are mostly in their twenties and early >> thirties!) At the end, Jack regrets the absence from the list of >> Joshua Ferris, "whose first novel? had the singular distinction among >> all these writers of making me laugh aloud quite often." >> >> No loud laughter in the whole top 21. Twenty-one Apollos, and not one >> Dionysus. >> >> "Why so sad, people?" as Zadie Smith asks. >> >> Well, it's just a habit by now. It's so ingrained in our culture that >> it has become an unexamined default position. What makes it much >> worse is that it is now being coached, reinforced. All of the writers >> on the Granta list attended university creative writing programmes. >> All, in other words, have submitted to authority. This is a >> catastrophe for them as novelists. >> >> The novel cannot submit to authority. It is written against official >> language, against officialdom, and against whatever fixed form the >> novel has begun to take?it is always dying, and always being born. >> >> If the literary novel has calcified into genre, the new novelists >> need to break its underlying, often unspoken rules. To not just >> question, but to overthrow authority. The novel, at its best, cannot >> even submit to the authority of the novelist: Gogol burnt his follow- >> up to Dead Souls because, on reading the book he had just written, he >> was shocked to find that he profoundly disagreed with it. >> >> But the universities are authority or they are nothing. As the west >> has grown secular, the university has, quite organically, taken over >> from the church as a cross-border entity claiming universality, >> claiming to influence the powerful but not to wield power. >> "Education" is the excuse for a self-perpetuating power structure >> now, just as "religion" was the excuse then. The modern universities >> could claim to have no single ideology, but the same could be said of >> the Vatican under the Medicis, or the Borgias. >> >> The problem is not that the universities are malevolent; they are >> not. They have no sinister intent in taking over the novel, >> professionalising it, academicising it. Like most of those who >> colonise territories that were getting on fine without them, they >> believe they do no great damage, they believe it's for the novel's >> good, they believe they are benign, idealistic and quite a bit >> cleverer than the natives. As ever, none of these beliefs is entirely >> true. >> >> The literary novel, by accepting the embrace of the universities, has >> moved inside the establishment and lost contact with what made it >> vital. It has, as a result, also lost the mass audience enjoyed by >> Twain and Dickens. The literary novel?born in Cervantes's prison >> cell, continued in cellars, bars and rented rooms by Dostoevsky, >> Joyce and Beckett?is now being written from on high. Not the useful >> height of the gods, with its sharp, gods'-eye view of all human >> classes, all human folly, but the distancing, merely human height of >> the ruling elite, just too high up to see what's happening on the >> street below. >> >> Luckily this situation is self-satirising. Campus authority generates >> campus comedy. The senior academic novelist is trapped in the small >> world of the university, cut off from the big world, embodying >> authority yet still driven to write. In this situation the novel, if >> it is to live, must turn against the novelist. Malcolm Bradbury and >> David Lodge, writing novels at night, attacked their day-selves, >> their academic selves, as absurd buffoons whose work was meaningless. >> And the novelist in them was right. >> >> The university model, any teaching model, of necessity implies that >> there is a Platonic ideal novel in some other dimension, which has >> all the characteristics that make for novelness and that the more of >> these attributes a novel has, the more like a perfect novel it is. >> This concept works for the tragic, it works for the epic, it works >> (less well, but it works) for the lyric, it does not work for the >> novel because, as Mikhail Bakhtin has pointed out, the novel is the >> only post-Aristotelian literary form. It is not bound by classical >> rules. It is not bound by any rules. The novel is not a genre. The >> novel is always novel. The novel is always coming into being. The >> novel cannot be taught, because the novel does not yet exist. >> >> This professionalisation will make poor writers adequate. And will >> make potentially great writers adequate. Great novelists write for >> their peers. Poor novelists write for their teachers. If you must >> please the older generation to pass (a student writing for an older >> teacher, a teacher writing to secure tenure), you end up with >> cautious, old-fashioned novels. Worse, the system turns peers into >> teachers. Destroyed as writers, many are immediately re-employed, >> teaching creative writing. This is a Ponzi scheme. >> >> During their second year, students are offered teaching appointments >> to teach introductory undergraduate creative writing workshops (ENL >> 5F or ENL 5P) in their genre or are hired as literature TAs or GSRs. >> (From the website of the English department at the University of >> California, Davis) >> >> The damage this is causing to novel, writer and audience is >> particularly advanced in America. The last 30 years have seen the >> effects of turning novel writing into an academic profession with a >> career path. As they became professional, writers began to write >> about writers. As they became academicised, writers began to write >> about writing. >> >> And the language of the American literary novel began to drift away >> from anything used by human beings anywhere on earth. Thirty years of >> the feedback loop have led to a kind of generic American literary >> prose, instantly recognisable, but not as instantly comprehensible. >> Professions generate private languages designed to keep others out. >> This is irritating when done by architects. But it is a catastrophe >> for novelists, and the novel. >> >> Lastly, a series of thesis units, which is your writing time guided >> by your thesis committee members, will fulfil the required 36 units. >> (From the website of the English department at the University of >> California, Davis) >> >> Much of their fiction contains not so much tragedy as mere anxiety. >> Pushed to look for tragedy in lives that contain none, to generate >> suffering in order to be proper writers, they force themselves to >> frown rather than smile; and their work fills with a self-indulgent >> anxiety that could perhaps best be called "wangst." >> >> To teach is to imply that one would not otherwise learn. Do we teach >> children to breathe? The illusion that there is a solution comes from >> the illusion that there is a problem. There is not. The forest is >> open. Strike out. >> >> The novelist's ambition is not to do something better than his >> predecessors but to see what they did not see, say what they did not >> say. Flaubert's poetics does not devalue Balzac's, anymore than the >> discovery of the North Pole renders obsolete the discovery of >> America. (Milan Kundera, "The Curtain") >> >> If I don't like what the novel is doing, do I have any suggestions as >> to what it should do? Perhaps. >> >> The novel grows by theft and observation, both of real life and of >> other "newer," yet often more conservative art forms. (Cinema was a >> tremendous influence on Joyce.) The problem with the novels of, say, >> John Banville is that, although brilliantly written, they steal only >> from other novels (and a few oil paintings). His is a universe in >> which the internet does not exist, and television scarcely exists. >> Yet new art forms, and their delivery systems, change the way we read >> the novel, and therefore must change the way we write it. This is not >> a catastrophe; it is an opportunity. We are free to do new things >> with the novel, which could not have been understood before now. >> >> My generation, and those younger, spend a lot of time taking in >> information not in long, linear, structured, coherent, self-contained >> units (a film, a novel), but in short bursts, with wildly different >> tones. A youth spent channel-hopping and surfing the internet rewires >> the brain. (So does a youth spent reading critical theory: be >> careful.) See 10,000 Hollywood movies and the journey of the hero >> becomes utterly predictable: you can see the plot twists and ending >> coming from the start. Traditional story may have been broken by this >> overload: certainly it suffers from repetitive strain injury. >> Television has responded to this crisis. The novel has not. >> >> A comparison between The Simpsons and a soap opera is instructive. A >> soap opera is trapped inside the rules of the format; all soaps >> resemble each other (like psychologically plausible realist novels). >> What the makers of The Simpsons did was take a soap opera and put a >> frame around it: "this is a cartoon about a soap opera." This freed >> them from the need to map its event-rate on to real life: they could >> map its event-rate on to cartoon life. A fast event-rate is >> inherently comic, so the tone is, of necessity, comic. But that is >> not to say it isn't serious. The Simpsons is profoundly serious. And >> profoundly comic. Like Aristophanes, debating the war between Athens >> and Sparta by writing about a sex strike by the women of Athens and >> beyond. >> >> With its cartoon event-rate, a classic series of The Simpsons has >> more ideas over a broader cultural range than any novel written the >> same year. The speed, the density of information, the range of >> reference; the quantity, quality and rich humanity of the jokes?they >> make almost all contemporary novels seem slow, dour, monotonous and >> almost empty of ideas. >> >> The Sopranos took a more subtle approach to the problem of the broken >> hero, the broken heroic saga, by deconstructing the hero through >> psychoanalysis, inside the frame. Twin Peaks and Lost have taken a >> more ostentatiously radical, metafictive approach to the breakdown of >> story. >> >> Meanwhile, the internet is rapidly becoming Borges's library of >> Babel, Rushdie's sea of stories: everything is turning up there, in >> potential promiscuous intercourse with everything else. Everything is >> happening all at once, in the same place, with no hierarchy. It's as >> though space and time have collapsed. It's exhilarating, and >> frightening. Who's capturing that in the novel? Because the novel is >> the place to capture it. The novel has freedoms which television has >> not. It can shape and structure multiplicity and chaos in ways the >> internet cannot. >> >> Novelists can take from these new art forms new structures and >> techniques for telling stories, as Joyce did from cinema. But who >> has? Weirdly, the modernists have a more accurate take on now than >> the most recent Booker winners. Finnegans Wake reads like a mash-up >> of a Google translation of everything ever. But John Banville and >> Anita Desai read like nostalgia (for Nabokov, for Dickens, for >> traditional virtues, for the canon). They feel far less contemporary >> than The Waste Land?which is what Bakhtin would call a novelised >> poem: a poem that escapes Aristotle's Poetics and hitches a ride on >> the energy of the novel. As Baudrillard should have said: >> postmodernism never happened. Since Joyce and Woolf (and Eliot), the >> novel's wheels have spun in the sand. >> >> So steal from The Simpsons, not Henry James. >> >> Realistic texture and a cartoon event-rate with a broad range of >> reference: is this a revolutionary new way of writing the novel? Of >> course not. It's ancient. Voltaire, for example, did it in Candide. >> But we keep forgetting. The novel is constantly pushed by the culture >> towards worthiness, towards Aristotle's Poetics, towards tragedy. The >> next great novel will do to the contemporary literary novel what >> Cervantes did to the chivalric romance. It's not that contemporary >> literary novels are bad. Line by line, book by book, they're often >> wonderful. But in the same few ways. Who needs more of that? >> >> You may think that to praise The Simpsons at the expense of Henry >> James makes me a barbarian. Well, it does, but I'm a very cultured >> barbarian. The literary novel has gone late Roman. It needs the >> barbarians. It secretly yearns for them. It's leading them on. How >> many novels influenced by Henry James very politely fought it out for >> the Booker in 2004? >> >> GS Frazer, writing about Henry James in 1964, said: "The novelist >> must recognise that the foundations of the world he walks are >> dangerously shifting, that we are living in a world of rapid and >> disturbing change, so that we can neither say with certainty when >> some new pattern of relative stability will emerge, nor what sort of >> pattern it might be. Yet the task of the novelist also, since the >> human heart hungers after permanence, is to project some image of >> permanence and to give the novel a coherence that life at large does >> not? possess." >> >> This is completely wrong. The task of the novelist is precisely the >> opposite: not to fake a coherence that does not exist, but to capture >> the chaos that does. And in so doing, perhaps we shall discover that >> chaos and permanence are not, in fact, opposed. The novel, self- >> renewing, self-destroying, always the same, always new, always? >> novel? is the art of permanent chaos. >> >> And to clarify: I don't want everybody to write comedies. I just >> don't want everybody to write minor, anxious, banal tragedies, >> without thinking about why they've chosen such a crowded mode. Why >> all cluster under the one tree when there's a forest to explore? We >> do not live in tragic times. We do not live in comic times. We live >> in novel times. >> >> Ah well, this praising of comedy at the expense of tragedy has gone >> on forever. Let us go back to Greece, before Muhammad, before Christ, >> and let someone else have the last word. In Plato's Symposium, >> Aristodemus, a bit pissed, has just woken up to find "? there >> remained awake only Aristophanes, Agathon and Socrates, who were >> drinking out of a large goblet that was passed around, while Socrates >> was discoursing to them. Aristodemus did not hear all the discourse, >> for he was only half awake; but he remembered Socrates insisting to >> the other two that the genius of comedy was the same as that of >> tragedy, and that the writer of the one should also be a writer of >> the other. To this they were compelled to assent, being sleepy, and >> not quite understanding what he meant. And first Aristophanes fell >> asleep, and then, when the day was dawning, Agathon." >> >> "America loves a successful sociopath." >> --Gary Indiana >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at gmail.com >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 35, Issue 35 >> ****************************************** >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat May 26 17:24:02 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 23:24:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy References: <200705251422.l4PEMjit013012@wiz.cath.vt.edu><16317D68-C342-4E3B-9237-BADBEC3EDB66@overdomain.com> Message-ID: <017401c79fdc$2eb05cc0$4bef014f@ANNY> Re.: "Take what you can use and let the rest go by." > --Ken Kesey I'll get: "Pile on." From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:49 PM > Oh my, this is the conventional anthology critique: "But where are > X and Y and Z?" > > "Who are the great funny poets?" is an interesting question, although > I'm not sure that the comic is always funny. > > I'll nominate Shakespeare for starters. > > Pile on. > > Hal > > "Take what you can use and let the rest go by." > --Ken Kesey > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On May 26, 2007, at 2:09 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> Mx. Gough speaks truly, aye, verily, verily-- but has neglected >> some seriously funny boox, to wit: Lucius Apuleis, _The Golden >> Ass_, L. Sterne, _Tristram Shandy_, M. Twain, _Hucky Finn_, T. >> Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_ ... >> >> Who are the great funny poets? >> >>> Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:08:01 -0500 >>> From: Halvard Johnson >>> Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Divine Comedy >>> >>> Ignore this at your peril. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: prospect-logo.jpg >>> Type: image/jpeg >>> Size: 53781 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ >>> 20070525/65e7d25c/prospect-logo.jpg >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >>> Issue 134 , May 2007 >>> Divine Comedy >>> by Julian Gough >>> >>> The Greeks understood that comedy (the gods' view of life) is >>> superior to tragedy (the merely human). But since the middle ages, >>> western culture has overvalued the tragic and undervalued the comic. >>> This is why fiction today is so full of anxiety and suffering. It's >>> time writers got back to the serious business of making us laugh >>> Julian Gough's comic short story "The orphan and the mob" (published >>> in Prospect, March 2006) has won the 2007 National Short Story prize >>> What is wrong with the modern literary novel? Why is it so worthy and >>> dull? Why is it so anxious? Why is it so bloody boring? >>> >>> Well, let's go back a bit first. Two and a half thousand years ago, >>> at the time of Aristophanes, the Greeks believed that comedy was >>> superior to tragedy: tragedy was the merely human view of life (we >>> sicken, we die). But comedy was the gods' view, from on high: our >>> endless and repetitive cycle of suffering, our horror of it, our >>> inability to escape it. The big, drunk, flawed, horny Greek gods >>> watched us for entertainment, like a dirty, funny, violent, >>> repetitive cartoon. And the best of the old Greek comedy tried to >>> give us that relaxed, amused perspective on our flawed selves. We >>> became as gods, laughing at our own follies. >>> >>> Many of the finest novels?and certainly the novels I love most?are in >>> the Greek comic tradition, rather than the tragic: Rabelais, >>> Cervantes, Swift, Voltaire, and on through to Joseph Heller's >>> Catch-22 and the late Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5. >>> >>> Yet western culture since the middle ages has overvalued the tragic >>> and undervalued the comic. We think of tragedy as major, and comedy >>> as minor. Brilliant comedies never win the best film Oscar. The >>> Booker prize leans toward the tragic. In 1984, Martin Amis reinvented >>> Rabelais in his comic masterpiece Money. The best English novel of >>> the 1980s, it didn't even make the shortlist. Anita Brookner won that >>> year, for Hotel du Lac, written, as the Observer put it, "with a >>> beautiful grave formality." >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: Essay_Gough_1.gif >>> Type: image/gif >>> Size: 11172 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ >>> 20070525/65e7d25c/Essay_Gough_1.gif >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >>> The fault is in the culture. But it is also internalised in the >>> writers, who self-limit and self-censor. If the subject is big, >>> difficult and serious, the writer tends to believe the treatment must >>> be in the tragic mode. When Amis addressed the Holocaust in his minor >>> novel Time's Arrow (1991), he switched off the jokes, and the energy, >>> and was rewarded with his only Booker shortlisting. >>> >>> But why this pressure, from within and without? There are two good >>> reasons. The first is the west's unexamined cultural cringe before >>> the Greeks. For most of the last 500 years, Homer and Sophocles have >>> been held to be the supreme exponents of their arts. (Even Homer's >>> constant repetition of stock phrases like "rosy-fingered dawn" and >>> "wine-dark sea" are praised, rather than recognised as tiresome >>> clich?s.) >>> >>> The second reason is that our classical inheritance is lop-sided. We >>> have a rich range of tragedies?Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides (18 >>> by Euripides alone). Of the comic writers, only Aristophanes >>> survived. In an age of kings, time is a filter that works against >>> comedy. Plays that say, "Boy, it's a tough job, leading a nation" >>> tend to survive; plays that say, "Our leaders are dumb arseholes, >>> just like us" tend not to. >>> >>> More importantly, Aristotle's work on tragedy survived; his work on >>> comedy did not. We have the classical rules for the one but not the >>> other, and this has biased the development of all western literature. >>> We've been off-centre ever since. >>> >>> But of course Europe in the middle ages was peculiarly primed to >>> rediscover tragedy: the one church spoke in one voice, drawn from one >>> book, and that book was at heart tragic. All of human history, from >>> the creation, was a story that climaxed with the sadistic murder of a >>> man by those he was trying to save, whose fatal flaw was that he was >>> perfect in an imperfect world. The nicest man ever, he is murdered by >>> everybody. Not only is this tragedy; it is kitsch tragedy, overegged, >>> a joke. It cannot survive laughter, it is too vulnerable to it. And >>> the Bible, from apple to Armageddon, does not contain a single joke. >>> >>> The church spoke with one voice because it was on such shaky >>> foundations. The largest and richest property empire of all time had >>> somehow been built on the gospel of the poor. All other voices had to >>> be suppressed, even dissenting gospels. Only once a year, in >>> carnival, on the feast of fools, could the unsayable be said. A fool >>> was crowned king, and gave a fool's sermon from the altar that >>> reversed the usual pieties. But these speeches could not be written >>> down or circulated. They existed in the air, for a day, and were >>> gone. By the late middle ages, the paralysis was almost total. If you >>> change one word of the old Vulgate Bible, the whole thing comes under >>> suspicion. All you could hear was a single voice reading a single >>> book, the Vulgate, a Latin translation from a Greek original. When >>> Erasmus finally retranslated the Bible, threw it open to >>> interpretation, he caused a crisis that ultimately tore the church >>> apart. >>> >>> The problem is not specific to Christianity. Islam has always had a >>> problem with comedy at its expense, as Salman Rushdie showed in The >>> Satanic Verses. In Medina, in year two of the Hijra migration, with >>> Mecca not yet fallen, the Prophet asked the faithful to kill the >>> Jewish-Arab poet Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf for reciting his poems satirising >>> the Prophet (and joking about Muslim women). The faithful obliged. >>> >>> It is interesting, but unsurprising, that all the satirists murdered >>> and allegedly murdered on Muhammad's orders were, among other things, >>> Jewish. With its vigorous tradition of Talmudic debate, and with no >>> Jewish state to stifle or control that debate, Judaism never fell >>> into the paralysis of the younger monotheisms. It was, to put it >>> mildly, never state-approved. Judaism, excluded from the >>> establishment in so many Christian and Muslim nations, has >>> consequently produced a high proportion of the world's great >>> satirists, comedians and novelists. And, in Yiddish, it produced >>> perhaps the world's first compulsively comic, anti-authoritarian >>> language, with its structural mockery of high German. >>> >>> In Christian Europe, the Renaissance rediscovery of the classical >>> texts occurred when the habit of submission to authority was at its >>> most extreme. When printing was invented, no one thought to use it >>> for anything other than the Christian Bible, for that was the myth of >>> Europe, the one true myth. >>> >>> As writers began moving cautiously away from the theological shore, >>> they still felt the need for a holy book to guide them, to tell them >>> how to write. Aristotle's Poetics provided that. If you wanted to >>> write tragedy or epic, here were the rules. You need not think for >>> yourself. It's particularly sad to see the narrowness of subject >>> matter and style in the pictorial art of the era?Madonna after pink- >>> cheeked Madonna, saint after martyred saint. So much talent, all >>> wasted doing the Renaissance equivalent of Soviet realist art. >>> >>> And then something astonishing happened: the invention of the novel >>> privatised myth, because the novel, invented after Aristotle, did not >>> have a holy book. The novelist was on his own. Sometimes he's even a >>> she. There were no rules. The chaos of carnival had found its form. >>> The fool's sermon could be published, could live on. All you learned >>> from Rabelais or Cervantes was to mock everything sacred, all that >>> went before. Including them. >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: Essay_Gough_2.gif >>> Type: image/gif >>> Size: 12679 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> Url : http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/ >>> 20070525/65e7d25c/Essay_Gough_2.gif >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >>> And the reaction was fierce. Rabelais was jailed for his wild >>> comedies. Voltaire, praised for his early tragedies, was jailed for >>> his satires. Cervantes apparently started Don Quixote in a debtors' >>> prison. All had to flee town on occasion for fear of worse. Printing >>> had to be done abroad, in secret, and the books smuggled to their >>> destinations. The early years of the novel look remarkably like a >>> guerrilla war, as pro-Bible forces try to put down the insurgency of >>> the novel across Europe. Both were fighting for the same piece of >>> territory: the territory inside your head. >>> >>> Now a man could invent his own myth and spread it across the world. >>> And the reader, head bowed over the novel, could have a vision >>> without religion: a full vision, transmitted through space and time >>> by marks on paper, using the novelist's arts. >>> >>> The novel, when done right?when done to the best of the novelist's >>> abilities, talent at full stretch?is always greater than the >>> novelist. It is more intelligent. It is more vast. It can change your >>> entire internal world. Of course, so can a scientific truth. So can a >>> religious experience. So can some drugs. So can a sublime event in >>> nature. But the novel operates on that high level. Sitting there, >>> alone, quite still, you laugh, you murmur, you cry, and you can come >>> out of it with a new worldview, in a new reality. It's a controlled >>> breakdown, or breakthrough. It's dangerous. >>> >>> The resistance of the monotheisms to comedy has another, more subtle, >>> cause. The comic point of view?the gods'-eye view?is much more >>> uncomfortable for a believer in one all-powerful God than it was for >>> the polytheistic Greeks. To have the gods laughing at us through our >>> fictions is acceptable if the gods are multiple, and flawed like us, >>> laughing in recognition and sympathy: if they are Greek gods. But to >>> have the single omnipotent, omniscient God who made us laughing at us >>> is a very different thing: sadistic, and almost unbearable. We do not >>> wish to hear the sound of one God laughing. The western comic novel >>> has often had a harsh, judgemental edge. Swift has a hint of Yahweh >>> about him. But the recent death of God has freed a lot of space for >>> the comic novel. Science has given us a high, impersonal, non- >>> judgemental perspective from which to regard ourselves (brilliantly >>> used by Vonnegut in books like Breakfast of Champions). The various >>> eastern philosophies give us other high vantage points. Indeed, both >>> physics and Zen can handle laughter, and are superb tools for writing >>> the western comic novel because they do not require absolute faith >>> and they do not claim absolute certainty. With freedom from a death- >>> obsessed monotheism and new tools, new places from which to view >>> humanity, we should have entered a golden age of comedy. >>> >>> Some writers seized the chance. Evelyn Waugh became perhaps the >>> greatest English novelist of the 20th century by applying a flawless, >>> deadpan, comic technique to everything from modern manners to modern >>> warfare. PG Wodehouse developed the purest comic style of his age >>> but, unlike Waugh, felt no need to apply it to real life. The great >>> comic writers do survive, but are seldom seen as great till much >>> later. The tragic bias remains deep in the industry. And the more >>> original the comic masterpiece, the harder it is to get it through >>> the filters of western commercial publishing. Flann O'Brien's The >>> Third Policeman, one of Ireland's three greatest novels, could not >>> find a publisher in the author's lifetime. John Kennedy Toole's A >>> Confederacy of Dunces was rejected by 36 publishers, and Toole >>> eventually killed himself. Only a decade after his death was it >>> published. Publishing is a form of authority too. >>> >>> No, the novel has not, in general, been able to seize its freedom?it >>> has not gone comic. This has consequences. An unnecessary tragic >>> bias, in something so powerful, will cause a great deal of avoidable >>> suffering. Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther, with its >>> revoltingly sentimental suicide note, depressed a generation and >>> caused a wave of fashionable suicides across Europe. (They even >>> dressed in the same blue frock coat and yellow waistcoat.) >>> Autobiographical novels are particularly revealing of the bias in the >>> culture: in real life Goethe felt no need to kill himself after his >>> heart was broken, but when he wrote a book about it, it had to be a >>> tragedy and the hero had to die. A comedy would have been far more >>> suitable. It might even have led to a cheerful late 18th-century >>> Europe. But no, he gave us the furrow-browed Romantics. >>> >>> Tragically (or comically, depending on your temperament), the bias >>> caused by Aristotle, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus and the church >>> continues today. The youthful brow remains furrowed. >>> >>> It would be useful to look at a representative cross-section of the >>> finest young novelists of the US, the largest and most diverse of the >>> English-speaking nations. A big job, but luckily Granta has just >>> carried out the task for me, and announced its Best of Young American >>> Novelists 2, a list of 21 talents. In his summing up, the chair of >>> the judges, Granta editor Ian Jack, mentions death, sorrow, >>> uncertainty and anxiety. "All I know is that we read many books >>> infused by loss and a feeling that present things would not go on >>> forever." (These writers are mostly in their twenties and early >>> thirties!) At the end, Jack regrets the absence from the list of >>> Joshua Ferris, "whose first novel? had the singular distinction among >>> all these writers of making me laugh aloud quite often." >>> >>> No loud laughter in the whole top 21. Twenty-one Apollos, and not one >>> Dionysus. >>> >>> "Why so sad, people?" as Zadie Smith asks. >>> >>> Well, it's just a habit by now. It's so ingrained in our culture that >>> it has become an unexamined default position. What makes it much >>> worse is that it is now being coached, reinforced. All of the writers >>> on the Granta list attended university creative writing programmes. >>> All, in other words, have submitted to authority. This is a >>> catastrophe for them as novelists. >>> >>> The novel cannot submit to authority. It is written against official >>> language, against officialdom, and against whatever fixed form the >>> novel has begun to take?it is always dying, and always being born. >>> >>> If the literary novel has calcified into genre, the new novelists >>> need to break its underlying, often unspoken rules. To not just >>> question, but to overthrow authority. The novel, at its best, cannot >>> even submit to the authority of the novelist: Gogol burnt his follow- >>> up to Dead Souls because, on reading the book he had just written, he >>> was shocked to find that he profoundly disagreed with it. >>> >>> But the universities are authority or they are nothing. As the west >>> has grown secular, the university has, quite organically, taken over >>> from the church as a cross-border entity claiming universality, >>> claiming to influence the powerful but not to wield power. >>> "Education" is the excuse for a self-perpetuating power structure >>> now, just as "religion" was the excuse then. The modern universities >>> could claim to have no single ideology, but the same could be said of >>> the Vatican under the Medicis, or the Borgias. >>> >>> The problem is not that the universities are malevolent; they are >>> not. They have no sinister intent in taking over the novel, >>> professionalising it, academicising it. Like most of those who >>> colonise territories that were getting on fine without them, they >>> believe they do no great damage, they believe it's for the novel's >>> good, they believe they are benign, idealistic and quite a bit >>> cleverer than the natives. As ever, none of these beliefs is entirely >>> true. >>> >>> The literary novel, by accepting the embrace of the universities, has >>> moved inside the establishment and lost contact with what made it >>> vital. It has, as a result, also lost the mass audience enjoyed by >>> Twain and Dickens. The literary novel?born in Cervantes's prison >>> cell, continued in cellars, bars and rented rooms by Dostoevsky, >>> Joyce and Beckett?is now being written from on high. Not the useful >>> height of the gods, with its sharp, gods'-eye view of all human >>> classes, all human folly, but the distancing, merely human height of >>> the ruling elite, just too high up to see what's happening on the >>> street below. >>> >>> Luckily this situation is self-satirising. Campus authority generates >>> campus comedy. The senior academic novelist is trapped in the small >>> world of the university, cut off from the big world, embodying >>> authority yet still driven to write. In this situation the novel, if >>> it is to live, must turn against the novelist. Malcolm Bradbury and >>> David Lodge, writing novels at night, attacked their day-selves, >>> their academic selves, as absurd buffoons whose work was meaningless. >>> And the novelist in them was right. >>> >>> The university model, any teaching model, of necessity implies that >>> there is a Platonic ideal novel in some other dimension, which has >>> all the characteristics that make for novelness and that the more of >>> these attributes a novel has, the more like a perfect novel it is. >>> This concept works for the tragic, it works for the epic, it works >>> (less well, but it works) for the lyric, it does not work for the >>> novel because, as Mikhail Bakhtin has pointed out, the novel is the >>> only post-Aristotelian literary form. It is not bound by classical >>> rules. It is not bound by any rules. The novel is not a genre. The >>> novel is always novel. The novel is always coming into being. The >>> novel cannot be taught, because the novel does not yet exist. >>> >>> This professionalisation will make poor writers adequate. And will >>> make potentially great writers adequate. Great novelists write for >>> their peers. Poor novelists write for their teachers. If you must >>> please the older generation to pass (a student writing for an older >>> teacher, a teacher writing to secure tenure), you end up with >>> cautious, old-fashioned novels. Worse, the system turns peers into >>> teachers. Destroyed as writers, many are immediately re-employed, >>> teaching creative writing. This is a Ponzi scheme. >>> >>> During their second year, students are offered teaching appointments >>> to teach introductory undergraduate creative writing workshops (ENL >>> 5F or ENL 5P) in their genre or are hired as literature TAs or GSRs. >>> (From the website of the English department at the University of >>> California, Davis) >>> >>> The damage this is causing to novel, writer and audience is >>> particularly advanced in America. The last 30 years have seen the >>> effects of turning novel writing into an academic profession with a >>> career path. As they became professional, writers began to write >>> about writers. As they became academicised, writers began to write >>> about writing. >>> >>> And the language of the American literary novel began to drift away >>> from anything used by human beings anywhere on earth. Thirty years of >>> the feedback loop have led to a kind of generic American literary >>> prose, instantly recognisable, but not as instantly comprehensible. >>> Professions generate private languages designed to keep others out. >>> This is irritating when done by architects. But it is a catastrophe >>> for novelists, and the novel. >>> >>> Lastly, a series of thesis units, which is your writing time guided >>> by your thesis committee members, will fulfil the required 36 units. >>> (From the website of the English department at the University of >>> California, Davis) >>> >>> Much of their fiction contains not so much tragedy as mere anxiety. >>> Pushed to look for tragedy in lives that contain none, to generate >>> suffering in order to be proper writers, they force themselves to >>> frown rather than smile; and their work fills with a self-indulgent >>> anxiety that could perhaps best be called "wangst." >>> >>> To teach is to imply that one would not otherwise learn. Do we teach >>> children to breathe? The illusion that there is a solution comes from >>> the illusion that there is a problem. There is not. The forest is >>> open. Strike out. >>> >>> The novelist's ambition is not to do something better than his >>> predecessors but to see what they did not see, say what they did not >>> say. Flaubert's poetics does not devalue Balzac's, anymore than the >>> discovery of the North Pole renders obsolete the discovery of >>> America. (Milan Kundera, "The Curtain") >>> >>> If I don't like what the novel is doing, do I have any suggestions as >>> to what it should do? Perhaps. >>> >>> The novel grows by theft and observation, both of real life and of >>> other "newer," yet often more conservative art forms. (Cinema was a >>> tremendous influence on Joyce.) The problem with the novels of, say, >>> John Banville is that, although brilliantly written, they steal only >>> from other novels (and a few oil paintings). His is a universe in >>> which the internet does not exist, and television scarcely exists. >>> Yet new art forms, and their delivery systems, change the way we read >>> the novel, and therefore must change the way we write it. This is not >>> a catastrophe; it is an opportunity. We are free to do new things >>> with the novel, which could not have been understood before now. >>> >>> My generation, and those younger, spend a lot of time taking in >>> information not in long, linear, structured, coherent, self-contained >>> units (a film, a novel), but in short bursts, with wildly different >>> tones. A youth spent channel-hopping and surfing the internet rewires >>> the brain. (So does a youth spent reading critical theory: be >>> careful.) See 10,000 Hollywood movies and the journey of the hero >>> becomes utterly predictable: you can see the plot twists and ending >>> coming from the start. Traditional story may have been broken by this >>> overload: certainly it suffers from repetitive strain injury. >>> Television has responded to this crisis. The novel has not. >>> >>> A comparison between The Simpsons and a soap opera is instructive. A >>> soap opera is trapped inside the rules of the format; all soaps >>> resemble each other (like psychologically plausible realist novels). >>> What the makers of The Simpsons did was take a soap opera and put a >>> frame around it: "this is a cartoon about a soap opera." This freed >>> them from the need to map its event-rate on to real life: they could >>> map its event-rate on to cartoon life. A fast event-rate is >>> inherently comic, so the tone is, of necessity, comic. But that is >>> not to say it isn't serious. The Simpsons is profoundly serious. And >>> profoundly comic. Like Aristophanes, debating the war between Athens >>> and Sparta by writing about a sex strike by the women of Athens and >>> beyond. >>> >>> With its cartoon event-rate, a classic series of The Simpsons has >>> more ideas over a broader cultural range than any novel written the >>> same year. The speed, the density of information, the range of >>> reference; the quantity, quality and rich humanity of the jokes?they >>> make almost all contemporary novels seem slow, dour, monotonous and >>> almost empty of ideas. >>> >>> The Sopranos took a more subtle approach to the problem of the broken >>> hero, the broken heroic saga, by deconstructing the hero through >>> psychoanalysis, inside the frame. Twin Peaks and Lost have taken a >>> more ostentatiously radical, metafictive approach to the breakdown of >>> story. >>> >>> Meanwhile, the internet is rapidly becoming Borges's library of >>> Babel, Rushdie's sea of stories: everything is turning up there, in >>> potential promiscuous intercourse with everything else. Everything is >>> happening all at once, in the same place, with no hierarchy. It's as >>> though space and time have collapsed. It's exhilarating, and >>> frightening. Who's capturing that in the novel? Because the novel is >>> the place to capture it. The novel has freedoms which television has >>> not. It can shape and structure multiplicity and chaos in ways the >>> internet cannot. >>> >>> Novelists can take from these new art forms new structures and >>> techniques for telling stories, as Joyce did from cinema. But who >>> has? Weirdly, the modernists have a more accurate take on now than >>> the most recent Booker winners. Finnegans Wake reads like a mash-up >>> of a Google translation of everything ever. But John Banville and >>> Anita Desai read like nostalgia (for Nabokov, for Dickens, for >>> traditional virtues, for the canon). They feel far less contemporary >>> than The Waste Land?which is what Bakhtin would call a novelised >>> poem: a poem that escapes Aristotle's Poetics and hitches a ride on >>> the energy of the novel. As Baudrillard should have said: >>> postmodernism never happened. Since Joyce and Woolf (and Eliot), the >>> novel's wheels have spun in the sand. >>> >>> So steal from The Simpsons, not Henry James. >>> >>> Realistic texture and a cartoon event-rate with a broad range of >>> reference: is this a revolutionary new way of writing the novel? Of >>> course not. It's ancient. Voltaire, for example, did it in Candide. >>> But we keep forgetting. The novel is constantly pushed by the culture >>> towards worthiness, towards Aristotle's Poetics, towards tragedy. The >>> next great novel will do to the contemporary literary novel what >>> Cervantes did to the chivalric romance. It's not that contemporary >>> literary novels are bad. Line by line, book by book, they're often >>> wonderful. But in the same few ways. Who needs more of that? >>> >>> You may think that to praise The Simpsons at the expense of Henry >>> James makes me a barbarian. Well, it does, but I'm a very cultured >>> barbarian. The literary novel has gone late Roman. It needs the >>> barbarians. It secretly yearns for them. It's leading them on. How >>> many novels influenced by Henry James very politely fought it out for >>> the Booker in 2004? >>> >>> GS Frazer, writing about Henry James in 1964, said: "The novelist >>> must recognise that the foundations of the world he walks are >>> dangerously shifting, that we are living in a world of rapid and >>> disturbing change, so that we can neither say with certainty when >>> some new pattern of relative stability will emerge, nor what sort of >>> pattern it might be. Yet the task of the novelist also, since the >>> human heart hungers after permanence, is to project some image of >>> permanence and to give the novel a coherence that life at large does >>> not? possess." >>> >>> This is completely wrong. The task of the novelist is precisely the >>> opposite: not to fake a coherence that does not exist, but to capture >>> the chaos that does. And in so doing, perhaps we shall discover that >>> chaos and permanence are not, in fact, opposed. The novel, self- >>> renewing, self-destroying, always the same, always new, always? >>> novel? is the art of permanent chaos. >>> >>> And to clarify: I don't want everybody to write comedies. I just >>> don't want everybody to write minor, anxious, banal tragedies, >>> without thinking about why they've chosen such a crowded mode. Why >>> all cluster under the one tree when there's a forest to explore? We >>> do not live in tragic times. We do not live in comic times. We live >>> in novel times. >>> >>> Ah well, this praising of comedy at the expense of tragedy has gone >>> on forever. Let us go back to Greece, before Muhammad, before Christ, >>> and let someone else have the last word. In Plato's Symposium, >>> Aristodemus, a bit pissed, has just woken up to find "? there >>> remained awake only Aristophanes, Agathon and Socrates, who were >>> drinking out of a large goblet that was passed around, while Socrates >>> was discoursing to them. Aristodemus did not hear all the discourse, >>> for he was only half awake; but he remembered Socrates insisting to >>> the other two that the genius of comedy was the same as that of >>> tragedy, and that the writer of the one should also be a writer of >>> the other. To this they were compelled to assent, being sleepy, and >>> not quite understanding what he meant. And first Aristophanes fell >>> asleep, and then, when the day was dawning, Agathon." >>> >>> "America loves a successful sociopath." >>> --Gary Indiana >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard at gmail.com >>> halvard at earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 35, Issue 35 >>> ****************************************** >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From letitia.trent at gmail.com Sun May 27 13:10:15 2007 From: letitia.trent at gmail.com (L Trent) Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:10:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New issue of 21 Stars Review Message-ID: The Fifth issue of 21 Stars Review is up, with work from: Paul Baker Hugh Behm-Steinberg Jan Bindas-Tenney Elisa Gabbert and Kathleen Rooney Kit Kennedy Amy L. Sargent Christof Scheele ** Pablo Tanguay Jan Thie Jennifer Uhlich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 28 13:03:04 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 13:03:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Irish Classic Is Still a Hit (in Calfskin, Not Paperback) Message-ID: <200705281703.l4SH34ir008888@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it. INTERNATIONAL / EUROPE | May 28, 2007 Dublin Journal: Irish Classic Is Still a Hit (in Calfskin, Not Paperback) By EAMON QUINN The Book of Kells, the splendidly illustrated Gospels in Latin written 1,200 years ago, is about to undergo laser analysis. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/28/world/europe/28kells.html?ex=1181016000&en=ad6610c13291f3ca&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon May 28 15:20:36 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 14:20:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Irish Classic Is Still a Hit (in Calfskin, Not Paperback) In-Reply-To: <200705281703.l4SH34ir008888@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705281703.l4SH34ir008888@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Oooh, I'd love to have laser analyses of my books. Hal Driskin Funeral Chapel, Inc. Amherst, VA 24521 "Dedicated to Serving You" Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 28, 2007, at 12:03 PM, anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote: > > > > > > This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it > > INTERNATIONAL / EUROPE | May 28, 2007 > Dublin Journal: Irish Classic Is Still a Hit (in Calfskin, Not > Paperback) > By EAMON QUINN > The Book of Kells, the splendidly illustrated Gospels in Latin > written 1,200 years ago, is about to undergo laser analysis. > > > > > 1. Lost Chances for Survival, Before and After Stroke > 2. Outbreak of Eye Infections Puzzles Officials > 3. Lens Solution Is Pulled Over Link to Infection > 4. Elite Colleges Open New Door to Low-Income Youths > 5. In Fierce Competition, Google Finds Novel Ways to Feed Hiring > Machine > > ? Go to Complete List > > > Advertisement > > WAITRESS written and directed by Adrienne Shelly and starring Keri > Russell in the title role as a diner waitress stuck in a lousy > marriage whose only solace is baking out-of-this-world pies. If > only life were as easy as pie. Now Playing. > Click here to watch trailer > > > > > Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 28 15:34:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 21:34:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Irish Classic Is Still a Hit (inCalfskin, Not Paperback) References: <200705281703.l4SH34ir008888@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <011e01c7a15f$2d1897e0$57ab3452@ANNY> you funny Hal! ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: anny.ballardini at tin.it ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Irish Classic Is Still a Hit (inCalfskin, Not Paperback) Oooh, I'd love to have laser analyses of my books. Hal Driskin Funeral Chapel, Inc. Amherst, VA 24521 "Dedicated to Serving You" Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On May 28, 2007, at 12:03 PM, anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon May 28 17:18:56 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:18:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jagger, the poem Message-ID: <8C96F84EF662746-12EC-5E9C@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jagger%20immortalised%20in%20poetry_1032352 JAGGER IMMORTALISED IN POETRY LATEST: SIR MICK JAGGER has become the unlikely inspiration for poetry - penned by his ex-wife JERRY HALL. The former supermodel, whose nine year marriage to the rocker was annulled in 1999, makes her debut as a poet at a literary festival in England this summer (07). However, Hall published her first poem called Icon about the Rolling Stones frontman last month (Apr07) in British newspaper The Independent - and it doesn't make flattering reading. She writes, "He is a hollow hyperbole/ the crowd plays him like a flute/ the crowd lives out their fantasy/ through his mirror door they see/ an image of the person/ they wish that they could be/ he f**ks their women/ and fights their battles against mediocrity/ but when he comes home to me/ all that's left is VD." 28/05/2007 17:47 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon May 28 19:40:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 01:40:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jagger, the poem References: <8C96F84EF662746-12EC-5E9C@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001001c7a181$87553570$47c93a52@ANNY> They seem to me both in great form, at least from the tiny pics I can get, let's see if MJ answers back, From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:18 PM http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/jagger%20immortalised%20in%20poetry_1032352 JAGGER IMMORTALISED IN POETRY LATEST: SIR MICK JAGGER has become the unlikely inspiration for poetry - penned by his ex-wife JERRY HALL. The former supermodel, whose nine year marriage to the rocker was annulled in 1999, makes her debut as a poet at a literary festival in England this summer (07). However, Hall published her first poem called Icon about the Rolling Stones frontman last month (Apr07) in British newspaper The Independent - and it doesn't make flattering reading. She writes, "He is a hollow hyperbole/ the crowd plays him like a flute/ the crowd lives out their fantasy/ through his mirror door they see/ an image of the person/ they wish that they could be/ he f**ks their women/ and fights their battles against mediocrity/ but when he comes home to me/ all that's left is VD." 28/05/2007 17:47 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 29 03:41:30 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:41:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Erdrich from The Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <001301c7a1c4$c63ae940$f2a93252@ANNY> Poem: "Advice to Myself" by Louise Erdrich, from Original Fire: Selected and New Poems. ? Harper Collins Publishers, 2003. Reprinted with permission.(buy now) Advice to Myself Leave the dishes. Let the celery rot in the bottom drawer of the refrigerator and an earthen scum harden on the kitchen floor. Leave the black crumbs in the bottom of the toaster. Throw the cracked bowl out and don't patch the cup. Don't patch anything. Don't mend. Buy safety pins. Don't even sew on a button. Let the wind have its way, then the earth that invades as dust and then the dead foaming up in gray rolls underneath the couch. Talk to them. Tell them they are welcome. Don't keep all the pieces of the puzzles or the doll's tiny shoes in pairs, don't worry who uses whose toothbrush or if anything matches, at all. Except one word to another. Or a thought. Pursue the authentic-decide first what is authentic, then go after it with all your heart. Your heart, that place you don't even think of cleaning out. That closet stuffed with savage mementos. Don't sort the paper clips from screws from saved baby teeth or worry if we're all eating cereal for dinner again. Don't answer the telephone, ever, or weep over anything at all that breaks. Pink molds will grow within those sealed cartons in the refrigerator. Accept new forms of life and talk to the dead who drift in though the screened windows, who collect patiently on the tops of food jars and books. Recycle the mail, don't read it, don't read anything except what destroys the insulation between yourself and your experience or what pulls down or what strikes at or what shatters this ruse you call necessity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue May 29 06:40:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:40:35 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bulgakow, the Master and Margarita Message-ID: <004201c7a1dd$cab51d60$f2a93252@ANNY> I just bumped into the following, if you haven't had a chance to read it, here it is: http://www.lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master_engl.txt Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue May 29 09:52:35 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 06:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A Rosa is a Rosa is a Rosa is a Rosa. In-Reply-To: <011e01c7a15f$2d1897e0$57ab3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <223457.49056.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents Rosa Alcala http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/RosaAlcala2.pdf Heidi Lynn Staples http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/HeidiLynnStaples1.pdf Stephen Paul Miller http://media.libsyn.com/media/miporadio/StephenMiller2.pdf ~~~ Christine Hamm?s new chapbook, ?CHILDREN HAVING TROUBLE WITH MEAT? ? http://www.lulu.com/content/846234 ~~~ Friday, June 29, 2007 @ Stain Bar ETHAN PAQUIN is author of My Thieves (Salt, 2007), The Violence (Ahsahta Press, 2005), Accumulus (Salt, 2003) and The Makeshift (UK: Stride, 2002). He lives and teaches in Buffalo, NY, and returns to seacoast New Hampshire every summer. STACY SZYMASZEK is the author of Emptied of All Ships (Litmus Press, 2005) as well as several chapbooks. After working at Woodland Pattern Book Center in Milwaukee, WI for many years she moved to New York to be the Program Coordinator at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. This year she is also the Monday Night Reading curator. She edited Gam: A Survey of Great Lakes Writing which lived for 4 issues, and now works as co-editor or contributing editor on various projects including Instance Press and Fascicle. Her current work in process is called "hyper glossia," parts of which can be found on the internet, in a Belladonna* chap book and forthcoming from Hot Whiskey Press. ALVERZ RICARDEZ is the publisher of Kill Poet Press & Journal. His poetry has been published in several journals including Chronogram, Softblow, Pemmican, Language &amp; Culture & AVQ. Alveraz lives in Los Angeles and is currently working on his second volume of poetry. http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com/ ~~~ Enjoy! MiPOesias http://www.mipoesias.com ~~~ --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 30 06:13:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:13:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ekphrasis from Australia Message-ID: <002601c7a2a3$2a8d49e0$f8d83052@ANNY> sent to petc by Richards: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21753651-5012694,00.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed May 30 07:14:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:14:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Norton: Vol. 1.5 | The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy Message-ID: <003c01c7a2ab$b6951780$f8d83052@ANNY> Sent by: W.W. Norton & Company Reply to the sender Volume 1, Issue 5 May 2007 This is a special edition of the Norton newsletter to announce the publication of Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy. -------------------------------------------------------------- In a monumental new work of history and legal analysis, legendary prosecutor and #1 best-selling author Vincent Bugliosi lays all questions about the JFK assassination to rest. Bugliosi argues persuasively that it is beyond all doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald murdered President Kennedy, and beyond a reasonable doubt that Oswald acted alone. The result of twenty years of research, investigation, and analysis, and supported by more than 10,000 citations, Reclaiming History presents the definitive word on the JFK assassination. It is an historic achievement and a work to fascinate and enlighten all Americans, whether or not they were alive at the time of the assassination. READ LOOK LISTEN Still not convinced? Visit the Web site: reclaiminghistory.com BUY THE BOOK READ Excerpts from Reclaiming History: a.. Table of Contents b.. Introduction to Conspiracy Reviews of Reclaiming History: a.. New York Times Book Review, Bryan Burrough (May 20, 2007) b.. Los Angeles Times, Jim Newton (May 13, 2007) c.. Boston Globe, Joseph Rosenbloom (May 20, 2007) d.. Dallas Morning News, Michael Granberry (May 22, 2007) LOOK Watch Vincent Bugliosi discuss Reclaiming History in his own words. Visit fora.tv/reclaiminghistory to see an interview with Mr. Bugliosi and see video from his book tour in New York City; Washington, DC; Dallas; and San Francisco. LISTEN Vincent Bugliosi talks with Leonard Lopate on WNYC's The Leonard Lopate Show. (May 15, 2007) Click here to listen to the mp3. Still not convinced? ***SPECIAL GIVEAWAY*** We have a limited supply of paperback excerpts from Reclaiming History. The 318-page excerpt features "Chapter 1: Four Days in November" which illustrates how the assassination played out, minute-by-minute, from 6:30 a.m. on Friday, November 22, 1963, to 4 p.m. on Monday, November 25. To receive a free copy, send an email here. Be sure to provide your mailing address. W. W. Norton & Company, the oldest and largest publishing house owned wholly by its employees, strives to carry out the imperative of its founder to "publish books not for a single season, but for the years" in fiction, nonfiction, poetry, college textbooks, cookbooks, art books, and professional books. 500 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10110 www.wwnorton.com To forward this e-mail to a friend or colleague, use this link. This email was sent from W.W. Norton & Company Immediate removal with PatronMail? SecureUnsubscribe. To change your e-mail address or update preferences, use this link. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 31 12:11:57 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:11:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry Message-ID: <8C971B58C2B8299-8F8-E77@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton This article has been read 1,593 Times ???? ? Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life, eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton. For your convenience you may play or download with the links under the title. An edited transcript of the conversation is below. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu May 31 12:45:52 2007 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:45:52 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry In-Reply-To: <8C971B58C2B8299-8F8-E77@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C971B58C2B8299-8F8-E77@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Gioia as PHB Dogbert On 5/31/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss > Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry > Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton > This article has been read 1,593 Times > > > Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who > went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's > graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life, > eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an > influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he > explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since > 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he > has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more > popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership > Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with > management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton. > > > For your convenience you may play or download with the links under the > title. > An edited transcript of the conversation is below. > > ________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From andrewlundwall at hotmail.com Thu May 31 12:48:07 2007 From: andrewlundwall at hotmail.com (Andrew Lundwall) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:48:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] what's up on "seconds"? Message-ID: new work by C.S. Perez, Jane Rice, Mathias Svalina, Eileen Tabios, Scott Keeney, Alexander Jorgensen, Sheila Murphy, Toma? ?alamun and Andrew Demcak. "seconds: a virtual treasury of verse" is an irregularly updated web-zine edited by Andrew Lundwall, visit it here: http://fcdrain.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage?get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Thu May 31 13:05:07 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: what's up on "seconds"? Message-ID: <47243.66801.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Andrew Lundwall wrote: Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:10:28 -0400 From: Andrew Lundwall Subject: what's up on "seconds"? To: POETICS at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU new work by C.S. Perez, Jane Rice, Mathias Svalina, Eileen Tabios, Scott Keeney, Alexander Jorgensen, Sheila Murphy, Toma? ?alamun and Andrew Demcak. "seconds: a virtual treasury of verse" is an irregularly updated web-zine edited by Andrew Lundwall, visit it here: http://fcdrain.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Thu May 31 13:06:47 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Jorgensen, Alexander) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Gutless Self Promotion Message-ID: <624204.63161.qm@web54609.mail.yahoo.com> Otoliths #5 2 POEMS http://the-otolith.blogspot.com/2007/04/alexander-jorgensen-how-do-i-make-it.html There Journal #3 4 POEMS http://www.therejournal.com/03jorgensen.html fhole #12 1 POEM Biographical Information Alexander Jorgensen was born of the most mixed and common stock. An incessant traveler, he has lived in the Czech Republic, a Baroque Servite monastery along the ?umava Range (Bayerische Wald), the Galapagos Archipelago (San Cristobal Island), and the People's Republic of China (where he has divided his time since 2002). His work appears or is forthcoming in BathHouse, One Less, Noon, fhole, The Lyre, Jacket Magazine, Pinstripe Fedora, There Journal, Otoliths, and Brown University's Issues. He has performed and recorded with the Black Mountain Collective. His collections include In Deference to Ahab and an untitled collaborative effort with illustrator Phillip Nessen. -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu May 31 13:16:42 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry In-Reply-To: <8C971B58C2B8299-8F8-E77@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dana Gioia and John Barr should throw down one day, wrestling over who has more moxy when it comes to making money out of art while simultaneously making insipid remarks about the state of poetry past, present, future. Who would win that title? jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton This article has been read 1,593 Times ???????????? ??? Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life, eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton. --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu May 31 13:28:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:28:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection betweenBusiness and Poetry References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> I didn't read enough work by Dana Gioia to speculate on the quality, but I would like to remind people that Leonardo was excellent in engineering and in painting, Pessoa spent his life inside an office, we all know of Kafka, and there are plenty more if we give it a tiny thought. >From the interview to Dana Gioia: "For that reason, I did not let anyone I worked with know that I was a poet. This is because, let me ask you a question, if you had a poet working for you, wouldn't you check his or her addition? So privately I went through a very difficult time. That being said, as you rise in business, as you get out of the lower level staff jobs and the quantitative analysis, and you get into the higher level of problems, I felt that I had an enormous advantage over my colleagues because I had a background in the imagination, in language and in literature." ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection betweenBusiness and Poetry Dana Gioia and John Barr should throw down one day, wrestling over who has more moxy when it comes to making money out of art while simultaneously making insipid remarks about the state of poetry past, present, future. Who would win that title? jforjames at aol.com wrote: http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton This article has been read 1,593 Times ???????????? ??? Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life, eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Thu May 31 13:44:05 2007 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:44:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection betweenBusiness and Poetry In-Reply-To: <8C971B58C2B8299-8F8-E77@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <010301c7a3ab$49947670$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Anybody else notice the references to "T.S. Elliott" and "Richard Eberhardt"? So much for Knowledge at Wharton. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:12 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection betweenBusiness and Poetry http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton This article has been read 1,593 Times Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life, eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton. For your convenience you may play or download with the links under the title. An edited transcript of the conversation is below. ________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com . From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 31 15:37:06 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 15:37:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] William M. Meredith, a Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, has died Message-ID: <8C971D23482DFD8-984-1C63@WEBMAIL-DF03.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/05/31/pulitzer_prize_winning_connecticut_poet_dies/ Pulitzer Prize-winning Connecticut poet dies May 31, 2007 NEW LONDON, Conn. --William M. Meredith, a Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, has died a week after being admitted to a local hospital. He was 88. Meredith, a professor at Connecticut College for nearly 30 years, died Wednesday night at Lawrence & Memorial Hospital of cardiac and respiratory failure, according to hospital spokesman Kelly Anthony. Meredith, a resident of the Uncasville section of Montville, was admitted on May 23. Meredith received more than 25 awards, grants, fellowships and honorary degrees, including the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry in 1988 for "Partial Accounts: New and Selected Poems" and the National Book Award for Poetry in 1997 for "Effort at Speech." ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 31 16:45:00 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:45:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Roberts, 60, remembered as 'brilliant,' generous. Message-ID: <8C971DBB122FF7E-984-1F57@WEBMAIL-DF03.sysops.aol.com> http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b2_4ncc-3.5874638may31,0,5602612.story?track=rss May 31, 2007 NCC mourns death of instructor, award-winning poet Len Roberts, 60, remembered as 'brilliant,' generous. By Daryl Nerl Of The Morning Call The Northampton Community College community is in mourning this week, stunned and saddened by the death of Len Roberts, who was not only a beloved English teacher at the college for more than three decades, but an acclaimed, award-winning poet. He died Friday, the day after Northampton's commencement, after suffering a short illness, according to the college Web site. A memorial service is planned this evening at the Lipkin Theatre in Kopecek Hall at the campus. Roberts was 60 years old. ? ''I was so shocked when I saw his obituary on Saturday. I must have stared at the newspaper for a half hour,'' said Tom Santanasto of Bethlehem, a former student of Roberts, who remembered a teacher who generously gave his time to encourage his creative writing pursuits. ''He's a brilliant guy. I mean he had three Fulbrights,'' Santanasto said. ''And yet he was still the guy next door out building a chicken coop.'' ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu May 31 17:29:31 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:29:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Roberts, 60, remembered as 'brilliant, ' generous. Message-ID: Two very different and very talented guys. They'll be missed. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moonspinner at pa.net Thu May 31 17:28:25 2007 From: moonspinner at pa.net (Melanie Simms) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:28:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Post from Melanie Simms Message-ID: <000d01c7a3ca$9ff87510$2101a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Hello: I joined and wanted to share my first post. My name is Melanie Simms and I am writing to share my good news; just released my first collection of award winning poetry, titled Waking the Muse (edited by Gary Young). Waking the Muse is available on Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com and various other national and international distribution sites. It is currently nominated for an EVVY award. For selections of my work, you can visit my website at www.poetmelaniesimms.net and learn more about me there. I hope to hear back from everyone participating. Best wishes, Melanie Simms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu May 31 17:56:56 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:56:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Hannah RIP Message-ID: <8C971E5BD970B9E-984-22F7@WEBMAIL-DF03.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/05/31/sarah_hannah_40_teacher_poet_known_for_incisiveness_fervence/ Sarah Hannah, 40; teacher, poet known for incisiveness, fervence ?SARAH HANNAH? By Bryan Marquard, Globe Staff? |? May 31, 2007 Memory is "a ruthless contraption," Sarah Hannah wrote in "Alembic," a poem that, as the title suggests, distills recollections and captures the challenge of retrieving and refining lingering murmurs from the past. You lived somewhere for very long. But the avenues by which you could recall it Have been closed for new construction. At some point your mind chose a few for you, A lucky few among the millions. "She had an emotional intensity that wasn't sentimental or self-pitying," said the writer Annie Dillard, one of Dr. Hannah's teachers at Wesleyan University. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu May 31 19:21:38 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:21:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets Mazer, Nikolayev, Pope, Share in Boston June 14 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 15:12:57 +0000 From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Poets Mazer, Nikolayev, Pope, Share in Boston June 14 BORDERS Presents A Tapestry of Voices Hosted by Harris Gardner (617-723-3716) THURSDAY, JUNE 14th, 2007=96 6:30 P.M. FREE With an OPEN MIC to follow FEATURED POETS: Ben Mazer is the author of Johanna Poems (Cy Gist Press) and White Citi= es (Barbara Matteau Editions). He is the editor of Landis Everson=92s Ev= erything Preserved: Poems 1955-2005 (Graywolf) and The Complete Poems of = John Crowe Ransom(forthcoming from Handsel/Norton. Philip Nikolayev- raised in Russia, grew up equally fluent in English = and Russian. On relocating in 1990 to attend Harvard, he has written prim= arily in English. His poetry collections include Letters from Aldenderry= (Salt, 2006) and Monkey Time (2001 Verse Press). He co-edits Fulcrum: an= annual of poetry and aesthetics . Jacquelyn Pope=92s first collection of poems, Watermark, was selected b= y Marie Ponsot for the inaugural Marsh Hawk Poetry Prize and was publish= ed by Marsh Hawk Press in 2005. Her poems, essays, and translations have = appeared in journals and newspapers in the United States and Europe, Her = work has received awards from the Academy of American Poets and the Mas= sachusetts Cultural Council. Don Share has for quite a few years been curator of the Woodbury Room, = Harvard University, as well as Poetry Editor of Harvard Review. This summ= er he will become Senior Editor of Poetry Magazine in Chicago. His most r= ecent book of poems is Squandermania. His other books include Union; Sen= eca in English; I Have Lots of Heart: The Selected Poems of Miguel Hernan= dez; and a book about the poet Basil Bunting. He has received awards and = fellowships from Yaddo, PEN New England, and the UK Society of Authors, a= nd has been nominated for the Boston Globe L.L. Winship Award for outstan= ding book. Borders Boston- Downtown Crossing Corner of Washington and School Streets 617-557-7188 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu May 31 22:52:28 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:52:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] the threat of poetry to national security Message-ID: for your amusement... _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqjJCvq9vtE_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqjJCvq9vtE) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: