[New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk

[Skip Fox]

And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O'Hara, Mayer, Antin and
Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don't even think of Goldbarth
when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting defeatism, a
sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who has found
nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very much to say
in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. "By the gate
now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to clear them
away" Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula of this state
in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost in love). Why
_do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath their lines. I'd
rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a misreading of Williams)
lead to this, since I believe the discursive force that comes through Pound
or Williams or Olson through O'Hara et al., does not sprawl. Is that a
viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit in a loosely held line
compared to an energetic discovery of what there is to know, realize, think
about, feel, write and read, in a unique but recognizably talkative line?

 

That's my initial impression, but I'm open to persuasion. 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:22 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk

 

Skip,
Your question of structure is interesting, since these talk poems seem
driven almost solely by style. They affect, or really do have, that quality
referred to in painting as 'alla prima'. Meaning done in one sitting, and
not slowly building up layers of paint over time (which might be roughly
equivalent to structuring the paint). Leading to a more gestural and
generally less formal outcome. It would be interesting to know if certain
talk poets 'work over' their pieces, push them through successive drafts
until they get down to that exact degree of insouciance or nonchanlance
they're looking for. Whether they give themselves some guidelines like 'No
more than three lines before an abrupt shift in
tone/scene/subject/time/diction, etc. Do they go off their Ritalin for a few
days before sitting down to write? (OK,that last question was totally
uncalled for, I know.) More seriously, O'Hara and Koch, would be exempt from
this question, but how much of the talk poetry is a product of the
channel-surfing age, the drive-thru and the drive-by culture? Is this hip
and uptempo nihilism? 

Given the number of poets doing the 'ultra talk' poem, one has got to think
there is some necessary one-up-(wo)manship at play: How much of a fever
pitch can I work myself up to before people begin to visualize me as foaming
at the mouth. How may swirls of allusion can I work in before all the colors
mix to muddy brown, etc. Can the range of this kind of poetry broaden &
deepen, or is the necessary motion only up, up, up...?
Finnegan

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip Fox skip at louisiana.edu

 

I would like to add to his question, in the same spirit I think he asked
his. Mine (finally) is there some like what Abrams wrote about in the
Romantic ode which might give us as much access to this work as he increased
mine into the Romantic poets? Is there a structure that reflects a world
view? (I might not like: "Its desultory drift reflects an existential
ennui,"  but I'd understand it and start looking for that . . . and if it
did it well . . . great. I might even find new appreciation.) 

 

It needn't be just structure (though this is a telling place to look). I'm
merely looking for a key. I've been in workshops where students wrote what I
identity as this and I try to help them as best as I can, but I'd probably
be more effective if I knew some of the main artistic principles or
underlying thought.

 

(Or will we have to buy the book of essays? . . . Actually whetting our
tastes with a rationale or three might send more of us _to_ the book instead
of simply replacing its usefulness.)

 

 

 

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