From rog3r.day Fri Jun 1 02:24:58 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:24:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection betweenBusiness and Poetry In-Reply-To: <005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> Message-ID: and wallace stevens was in insurance, and ts eliot a banker (no punintended) but none of them tried to fuse poetry, business andmediocrity in precisely the same way as Gioia. and I've read Gioia.Eliot is, I would say, Gioia's polar opposite in poetry. On 5/31/07, Anny Ballardini wrote:>>> I didn't read enough work by Dana Gioia to speculate on the quality, but I> would like to remind people that Leonardo was excellent in engineering and> in painting, Pessoa spent his life inside an office, we all know of Kafka,> and there are plenty more if we give it a tiny thought.>> From the interview to Dana Gioia:>> "For that reason, I did not let anyone I worked with know that I was a poet.> This is because, let me ask you a question, if you had a poet working for> you, wouldn't you check his or her addition? So privately I went through a> very difficult time. That being said, as you rise in business, as you get> out of the lower level staff jobs and the quantitative analysis, and you get> into the higher level of problems, I felt that I had an enormous advantage> over my colleagues because I had a background in the imagination, in> language and in literature.">>> ----- Original Message -----> From: amy king> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:16 PM> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection> betweenBusiness and Poetry>> Dana Gioia and John Barr should throw down one day, wrestling over who has> more moxy when it comes to making money out of art while simultaneously> making insipid remarks about the state of poetry past, present, future. Who> would win that title?>>> jforjames at aol.com wrote:>> http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss> Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry> Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton> This article has been read 1,593 Times> ????> ?> Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who> went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's> graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life,> eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an> influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he> explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since> 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he> has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more> popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership> Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with> management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton.>>>>>> ________________________________> Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of> spyware protection.>> ________________________________>>> _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>>>>>> _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>> -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From bobgrumman Fri Jun 1 08:13:41 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:13:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close ConnectionbetweenBusiness and Poetry References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> fde503480705312324o18635887ra20ca3ed3131c55d@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <001a01c7a446$4f5169b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I think Gioia's saying he had a "background in imagination" says it all. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 1 07:16:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:16:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella Message-ID: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start looking for the corpse right there. Alfred Hitchcock -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 08:20:44 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 08:20:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella In-Reply-To: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> References: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706010520m76305959v6012eea80c7069fe@mail.gmail.com> I love this, Anny. Do you have a source? Jeff On 6/1/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start > looking for the corpse right there. > > Alfred Hitchcock > > ------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 1 10:23:24 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:23:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella References: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> <731bb17a0706010520m76305959v6012eea80c7069fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007901c7a458$6aa19480$2aa93852@ANNY> I don't. I receive a mail : Buongiorno (= Good morning) with a different quotation every day, 99.9999% not worth quoting but I've never taken the needed 5 minutes to unsubscribe. What is funny is that I always read them. From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:20 PM I love this, Anny. Do you have a source? Jeff On 6/1/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start looking for the corpse right there. Alfred Hitchcock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 10:29:00 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:29:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism Message-ID: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 11:21:52 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:21:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com> A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 1 12:22:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 18:22:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker Fri Jun 1 12:56:16 2007 From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 12:56:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] two unrelated subjects Message-ID: Hi, Jeff. My colleague Suzanne Churchill's recent book on little magazines would be worth your while: _The Little Magazine *Others* and the Renovation of Modern American Poetry_ (Ashgate, 2006). Also, to all... I offer condolences to the family of poet Sarah Hannah, who died last week, and urge all on the list to read and re-read her fine first collection, _Longing Distance_, from Tupelo (www.tupelopress.org). Sarah will be missed. Take care, friends, AMP From acgold01 Fri Jun 1 13:43:16 2007 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:43:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism Message-ID: <46602271.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Jeff, The potential list is awfully long, as I'm sure you can imagine, but one place to start for your purposes might be the recent essay collection edited by Walter Kalaidjian, Cambridge Guide to American Modernism. Part of what's useful in this gathering is that it reflects all the changes in thinking about and definitions of modernism since Kenner organized *his* version of modernism around 4-5 male authors. I still think *The Pound Era* is a great book, but I also think it belongs to the history of modernist criticism rather than offering a perspective that's still viable in 2007. All best, Alan From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 14:10:33 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:10:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <46602271.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> References: <46602271.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706011110m1b13a347wbfdacce008046fc5@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Alan. I appreciate your suggestion. Best, Jeff On 6/1/07, Alan C Golding wrote: > > Jeff, > > The potential list is awfully long, as I'm sure you can imagine, but one > place to start for your purposes might be the recent essay collection edited > by Walter Kalaidjian, Cambridge Guide to American Modernism. Part of what's > useful in this gathering is that it reflects all the changes in thinking > about and definitions of modernism since Kenner organized *his* version of > modernism around 4-5 male authors. I still think *The Pound Era* is a great > book, but I also think it belongs to the history of modernist criticism > rather than offering a perspective that's still viable in 2007. > > All best, > > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Fri Jun 1 17:30:25 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:30:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella In-Reply-To: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> References: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46608FF1.5010207@opus40.org> And I suppose if I did Cinderella, people would wonder when she was going to get naked. Anny Ballardini wrote: > As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start > looking for the corpse right there. > > Alfred Hitchcock > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From editor Fri Jun 1 22:27:50 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 19:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Roberts Message-ID: <178403.7920.qm@web83829.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I knew Len very well for a number of years, he was a nice guy, part of the group through West Branch that accepted me in my mid twenties in some form of admiration that included Jim Daniels and Billy Collins. Therefore I was really feeling this one, Len even judged our first chapbook contest, cause Gerald Stern convinced me, wanted a chap out from us that I never got around to. Len always had narrative poetry mostly about religion based experiences from somewhere in upstate NY. I think when I presented at AWP in 1999 might have been the last time I saw him tho we talked on the phone at other times after. Len was in a persuit of the narrative of James Wright mixed with a heavy influence of Lowell and the confessionals. There was a book that had something about Black angels that seemed his best from the half dozen he sent over the decades. I am just surprised-- it reminds me of something I was told which might be the best elegy in some way, as when Len talked as a peer he: "talked about motivation, the feeling, the unsound that is around the universe. They explain everything to one understanding. They bring it all together, and when they finish, just one word comes out. Just one word. They might talk all day, and just one word comes out." --Wallace Black Elk All I can think of, I have called who I needed to, go from there. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 2 14:15:16 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 14:15:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: San Juan Workshops Message-ID: ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: jill patterson Subject: San Juan Workshops Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:38:53 -0500 Size: 9554 URL: From jforjames Sat Jun 2 16:42:22 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:42:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Melanie Simms Message-ID: <8C9736DA79984BA-854-6D0D@WEBMAIL-RD06.sysops.aol.com> Hello! My name is Melanie Simms and I am new to your list. I wanted to write and introduce myself. I am a poet residing in Liverpool, Pa and have been publishing poetry for the past 6 years in numerous national and international poety journals, magazines and newspapers including the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, York Times, Zuzu's Petals, Taj Mahal Review, among many others. You can visit me at my website at www.poetmelaniesimms.net for a background, as well as enjoy free e-cards, links to discounted poetry books and samples of my poetry. Additionally, you can order my book, Waking the Muse online, or via Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com, and various other national and international distributors. ?I very much look forward to meeting everyone; I hope you will visit my website and drop me a note or write me personally at moonspinner at pa.net ? ?Thank you! Yours truly, Melanie Simms www.poetmelaniesimms.net ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sun Jun 3 13:22:47 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 13:22:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ArtRadio: Historic Audio from PSA Message-ID: <8C9741AF0574630-128-7488@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/Itemid,187/ ArtRadio (archive page) http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,98/cat,26/Itemid,187/ ?Index Historic Audio from the Poetry Society of America ------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 3 15:24:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:24:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] submissions for international work Message-ID: <00c001c7a614$d8631f80$36d73152@ANNY> See http://fourw.tumblr.com/ (I love that Wagga Wagga Booranga it tickles me somewhere... :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Jun 3 17:38:49 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:38:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close ConnectionbetweenBusiness and Poetry In-Reply-To: <001a01c7a446$4f5169b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> fde503480705312324o18635887ra20ca3ed3131c55d@mail.gmail.com <001a01c7a446$4f5169b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <466334E9.8090209@myuw.net> No kidding. He never struck me as enough of a baudrillardian theorist to make that claim. I guess I underestimated him. Bob Grumman wrote: > I think Gioia's saying he had a "background in imagination" says it all. > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq Sun Jun 3 17:42:50 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:42:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466335DA.4000002@myuw.net> The best book I've read, not to say the best book there is of course, on that topic is Perloff's "21st Century Modernism" for it's reading of stein, eliot, & duchamp. Also, the introductory essay to the Green Integer "Arcanum 17" which I think of as Breton's American Epic is very interesting on the topic of continental modernism in collision with what was going on in the states by the 40s and might point in some interesting directions. Jeff Newberry wrote: > A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry > world: > > One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm > looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a > concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American > Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, > the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. > > I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade > World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. > > I'd appreciate any suggestions. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames Mon Jun 4 08:40:39 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:40:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: In Posse Review Message-ID: _http://webdelsol.com/InPosse/_ (http://webdelsol.com/InPosse/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Jun 4 08:43:59 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:43:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ArtRadio: Historic Audio from PSA Message-ID: In a message dated 6/3/2007 1:23:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: _http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/Itemid,187/_ (http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/Itemid,187/) ArtRadio (archive page) _http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,98/cat ,26/Itemid,187/_ (http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,98/cat,26/Itemid,187/) Index Historic Audio from the Poetry Society of America I listened to the lecture by Ann Carson on Sappho...it was very good, even though she was showing slides and of course those were lacunae of the audio recording. Finnegan _http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Jun 4 11:33:55 2007 From: editor (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:33:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Vandalism? Message-ID: <200706041534.l54FYjwH030243@mail29.atl.registeredsite.com> Greetings, N-P List. The June '07 issue of Why Vandalism? is now online: http://www.whyvandalism.com "may be conceits spoken of and into play the merits they neither sought of nor were a source remote" Posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ From jorgensen_a Mon Jun 4 23:39:56 2007 From: jorgensen_a (Jorgensen, Alexander) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 20:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and Art The Cult of the Amateur Message-ID: <158919.20731.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/9cbeed14-fee9-11db-aff2-000b5df10621.html Andrew Keen, a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur, has set the blogosphere alight with his new book, a scathing attack on user-generated content. Sub-titled ?How the Internet is killing our culture?, Keen?s book is a polemic against the ?anything goes? standards of much of online publishing. Keen does not believe in ?the wisdom of the crowd?. Much of the content filling up YouTube, MySpace, and blogs is just an ?an endless digital forest of mediocrity? which, unconstrained by professional standards or editorial filters, can alter public debate and manipulate public opinion He also fears that the free swapping, downloading, mashing-up and aggregating of intellectual property threaten the ability of artists and thinkers with contributions of real value to earn a livelihood from their talents. ?The Cult of the Amateur? is published by Random House on June 5. Andrew Keen will be online to answer questions about his book on Thursday June 7 at 2pm BST (9am EDT). -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 5 02:00:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:00:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Open Mic Poetry NYC June 9th Message-ID: <003401c7a736$dd165790$fbec3652@ANNY> For those in New York! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are invited to attend/participate in an open mic poetry reading on Saturday, June 9th. Saturday, June 9, 2007, 6-8pm Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series $8 donation; wine will be served. Open to all writers and the general public. Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at maria at dactyl.org. There will be a short break in between the readings. Poets plan to read for about 7 minutes. Dactyl Foundation for the Arts and Humanities 64 Grand Street (b/w West Broadway and Wooster) SoHo, New York 10013 212.696.7800 www.dactyl.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 5 06:26:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:26:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lecturer/Senior Lecturer in Film/TV Studies Message-ID: <001301c7a75b$ee555220$43df3652@ANNY> > From: Richard J Ellis [mailto:r.j.ellis at bham.ac.uk] > Sent: maandag 4 juni 2007 11:14 University of Birmingham School of Historical Studies Department of American and Canadian Studies Lecturer/Senior Lecturer in Film/TV Studies As part of a major development of Film and TV Studies at the University of Birmingham, the Department of American and Canadian Studies is seeking to appoint a Lecturer/Senior Lecturer in Film and TV Studies. You will add to the research and teaching strengths of the department and forge links with other departments in the University and institutions outside it. You will currently be working in any area of Film and TV Studies although an interest in American Film/TV Studies and/or Documentary would be an advantage. Lecturer - Starting salary ?32,795 - ?39,160 a year (potential progression on performance once in post to ?44,074 a year). Senior Lecturer - Starting salary ?40,335 - ?46,758 a year (potential progression on performance once in post to ?49,607 a year). Closing date: 3 July 2007 Ref: A44149 Details from: 0121 415 9000 or www.hr.bham.ac.uk/jobs HR, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham B15 2TT. Informal advice is also available from R. J. Ellis (HoD of ACS) 0121 414 5509 A University of Fairness and Diversity. Work-Life Balance Award Winner 2003 and 2004. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 5 08:14:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 14:14:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) Message-ID: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> mIEKAL aND to the Buffalo: 'Laundry letters' worth millions POSTED: 10:31 a.m. EDT, June 4, 2007 http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ index.html LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a Swiss laundry room. The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. One of the rarest and most touching of the collection is a passionate letter written by an apologetic Napoleon to his wife to be, Josephine, the morning after a furious argument. "I send you three kisses -- one on your heart, one on your mouth and one on your eyes," wrote the chastened lover in a spidery scrawl full of corrections and crossings out. The letters, which cover more than 500 years and range across art, science, literature and philosophy, are to be auctioned by Christie's in London on July 3 and are expected to raise up to 2.3 million pounds ($4.6 million). "It really is an incredibly dense, very carefully researched collection," Thomas Venning, director in Christie's books department and a specialist in signed letters, told Reuters. "To get a collection of letters like this nowadays is really a one- off, it's almost unheard of." The owner, Albin Schram, began amassing the archive in the early 1970s, steadily building up one of the largest and most comprehensive collections outside a major museum. Though an inveterate collector, Schram wasn't interested in conservation or display -- the letters were kept in an old metal cabinet in the laundry room of his villa in Lausanne, Switzerland, ordered by size rather than author or date. When he died in 2005, his family barely knew they were there. Schram's interests spanned Russian poets, Argentine authors, French philosophers, English politicians and Italian sculptors. One of the most prized lots, with an auction estimate of up to 120,000 pounds, is a note written by metaphysical poet John Donne to Lady Kingsmill a day after the death of her husband in October 1624. Urging her not to presume to contest God's actions, Donne, who was dean of St Paul's Cathedral at the time, adds: "although we could direct him to do them better." "It's an incredibly moving letter to read," said Venning. "This is one of Britain's greatest poets, a contemporary of Shakespeare, writing at a very emotional time... Not only that, but it's exceptionally rare -- there is perhaps only one other John Donne letter in private hands." Another lot of interest is a letter written by Ernest Hemingway to the American poet and critic Ezra Pound in 1925, explaining why bulls are better than literary critics. "Bulls don't run reviews. Bulls of 25 don't marry old women of 55 and expect to be invited to dinner. Bulls do not get you cited as co- respondent in Society divorce trials. Bulls don't borrow money. Bulls are edible after they have been killed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Tue Jun 5 10:27:42 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 In-Reply-To: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <292326.38691.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ~~ apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 -- http://apocryphaltextpoetry.com/Vol._%202,_%20No.1/V.2_n.1.htm ~~ Guest Editor: Tim Earley kirsten andersen john m. bennett jessica bozek eric elshtain johannes g?ransson brian howe amy king danielle pafunda tony tost jillian weise ~~ apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 -- http://apocryphaltextpoetry.com/Vol._%202,_%20No.1/V.2_n.1.htm ~~ Scott Malby on apocryphaltext: ?Steven Teref writes in a poem featured in this impressive little journal: "The tunnel is subject to what the eyes fill it with." This quote can also be applied to electronic literary publishing in a number of fascinating ways. In APOCRYPHAL TEXT the literate mixes with garage band and appears to create not only a new vocabulary, but a new language and landscape. Editor Alan May is unerring in his textual choice of print and spacing. He states on his submissions page, "APOCRYPHAL TEXT seeks to publish poets with distinct voices/visions. The idiosyncratic and downright ornery are welcome." This strange little poetry site may well provide a remarkable and perverse glimpse into tomorrow. It is thoroughly embedded in the surreal possibilities and dangers inherent in contemporary literary internet publishing, and yet, as a result of, or because of it, provides a minimal, apocalyptic, starkly appealing vision.? --from Eclectica (http://www.eclectica.org/v11n2/malby_apr_07.html) ~~ apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 -- http://apocryphaltextpoetry.com/Vol._%202,_%20No.1/V.2_n.1.htm ~~ --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Jun 5 10:45:23 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:45:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Offers you can't refuse Message-ID: <534F61D6-9312-4FC6-9F85-401B693B7A40@earthlink.net> Friends and neighbors-- If you haven't gotten your copy of *Tango Bouquet* yet, you can download a copy (.pdf or .doc) from my page at Anny Ballardini's Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content Or you can request a copy (.doc or .pdf, as you prefer) from yours truly. Please put "Tango Bouquet request" in your subject line, lest it be lost. The second book from Vida Loca Books (Hal and Lynda pretending to be publishers--submissions by invitation only, please) is Rochelle Ratner's *Toast Soldiers*. You may also request that bc or find it at her website (google her name and you'll find it). Forthcoming: James Cervantes' *From Mr. Bondo's Unshared Life* Forthcoming: Lynda Schor's *Sex Manual for the Lower Classes* "Getting shot hurts." --Ronald Reagan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 5 16:07:16 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:07:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and Art The Cult of the Amateur In-Reply-To: <158919.20731.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <158919.20731.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C975C43FC0D492-4F0-5184@WEBMAIL-MB17.sysops.aol.com> He writes: ?Millions and millions of exuberant [Internet user] monkeys ? many with no more talent in the creative arts than our primate cousins ? are creating an endless digital forest of mediocrity. For today?s cult of amateur monkeys can use their networked computers to publish everything from uninformed political commentary to unseemly home videos, to embarrassingly amateurish music, to unreadable poems, reviews, essays and novels.? -- I don't see the great?net?threat. (His use of the word monkey reminds me of the old concept that if you had an infinite number of monkeys typing away, then?one of them would randomly type?Shakespeare's King Lear. Wouldn't we like to find the equilavent monkey among the blather and din?) No doubt there is a glut of poor material going up all over the web, but who is really being attracted to it? Are the smart folk somehow?bogged down reviewing or wading through?thousand of hours of insipid video, crank blogs, pathetic poetry, etc? I somehow don't think so. What gets attention deserves attention. This poor Andrew Keen?fellow must methodically read every email (spam included) in his inbox. He's probably not doing too well with his TV remote control?either, painstakingly going one by one through all those channels to find something worthy to watch. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jorgensen, Alexander To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:39 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and Art The Cult of the Amateur http://www.ft.com/cms/s/9cbeed14-fee9-11db-aff2-000b5df10621.html ? Andrew Keen, a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur, has set the blogosphere alight with his new book, a scathing attack on user-generated content. Sub-titled ?How the Internet is killing our culture?, Keen?s book is a polemic against the ?anything goes? standards of much of online publishing. Keen does not believe in ?the wisdom of the crowd?. Much of the content filling up YouTube, MySpace, and blogs is just an ?an endless digital forest of mediocrity? which, unconstrained by professional standards or editorial filters, can alter public debate and manipulate public opinion He also fears that the free swapping, downloading, mashing-up and aggregating of intellectual property threaten the ability of artists and thinkers with contributions of real value to earn a livelihood from their talents. ?The Cult of the Amateur? is published by Random House on June 5. Andrew Keen will be online to answer questions about his book on Thursday June 7 at 2pm BST (9am EDT). -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moonspinner Tue Jun 5 16:05:09 2007 From: moonspinner (Melanie Simms) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:05:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Melanie Simms Message-ID: <006701c7a7ac$d2243430$2101a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Hi everyone, I thought you might like to know about my first E-bay bookstore which features old poetry books, biographies on poets and much more. You can find me as PoetAngel41 on Ebay! There's some great books there to bid on, and the bidding starts as low as 4.99. Well... other than that, please write me if you get the time. You can find me at moonspinner at pa.net am looking forward to meeting my fellow poetry listers! Best regards for a happy summer, Melanie Simms www.poetmelaniesimms.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Jun 5 23:00:54 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 23:00:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched Message-ID: _http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773_ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773) By Adam Gopnik Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched Audio for this story will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET Her poems take small subjects and make much of them. In her poetry, a child about to pull a tablecloth from a table becomes the type of every scientist beginning an experiment. ...? All Things Considered, June 5, 2007 ? Every other year, it seems, the Nobel Prize in literature goes to an obscure European writer, full of hard consonants and solemn purposes, whom we all agree to honor for a day and forget all about right after. This list of the Great Obscure is long, but the bright exception to it is the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska, who won the Nobel in 1996. Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. Every month, it seems, I give to someone a copy of one of her books and get for her work, in response, not mere admiration or respect but eyes alight with delight, recognition, laughter and that special kind of happiness that comes from seeing a small truth articulated as a sharp ironic point, an emotion given a shape neither all too familiar nor all too abstract. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Jun 6 09:43:49 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:43:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: > > Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; > ABC of Reading by EP > Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 > Guide to Kulchur by EP > A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven > The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell > The Imagist Poem by William Pratt > > then a couple of guides to the Cantos. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism > > > > A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the > NewPoetry world: > > One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm > looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as > a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on > American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the > criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. > > I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade > World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. > > I'd appreciate any suggestions. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jun 6 14:25:14 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:25:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Remembering Auden Message-ID: <8C9767F2925917F-4C4-8AEF@FWM-M32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.christianitytoday.com/books/features/rumorsofglory/070604.html Books & Culture, May/June 2007 RUMORS OF GLORY Remembering Auden And learning how to make sense of his renunciations. By Alan Jacobs | posted 06/04/07 In 2006, as lovers of poetry became aware that the 100th anniversary of W. H. Auden's birth was coming up, some of them began to fret that the event wouldn't receive the attention it deserved. No major celebrations seemed to be forthcoming, in pronounced contrast to the festivals for John Betjeman's centenary that were going on throughout England in the second half of 2006. The BBC gave Betjeman a whole month of festivities, and wasn't Auden a much greater poet, worthy of far more honor? Yes, but ? Betjeman was an enormously popular and beloved poet in England. (Almost the only person who didn't love him was his tutor at Oxford, a young don named C. S. Lewis?not yet a Christian, by the way?who told his diary "I wish I could get rid of the idle prig," and later wrote his pupil a letter which began ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jun 6 17:01:36 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:01:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9769501798525-1DC4-9181@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> Hmm...Other poets are as unnecessary as grapefruit juice? Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. -----Original Message----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773 By Adam Gopnik ?Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched ? Audio for this story will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET ?? Her poems take small subjects and make much of them. In her poetry, a child about to pull a tablecloth from a table becomes the type of every scientist beginning an experiment. ...? ? ? ?All Things Considered, June 5, 2007 ? Every other year, it seems, the Nobel Prize in literature goes to an obscure European writer, full of hard consonants and solemn purposes, whom we all agree to honor for a day and forget all about right after. ? This list of the Great Obscure is long, but the bright exception to it is the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska, who won the Nobel in 1996. Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. Every month, it seems, I give to someone a copy of one of her books and get for her work, in response, not mere admiration or respect but eyes alight with delight, recognition, laughter and that special kind of happiness that comes from seeing a small truth articulated as a sharp ironic point, an emotion given a shape neither all too familiar nor all too abstract. See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 6 17:12:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:12:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched References: <8C9769501798525-1DC4-9181@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <010c01c7a87f$700e5950$e3ed064f@ANNY> I like that let's say as unnecessary as complicated algebra... :-( From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 11:01 PM Hmm...Other poets are as unnecessary as grapefruit juice? Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. -----Original Message----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773 By Adam Gopnik Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched Audio for this story will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET Her poems take small subjects and make much of them. In her poetry, a child about to pull a tablecloth from a table becomes the type of every scientist beginning an experiment. ...? All Things Considered, June 5, 2007 ? Every other year, it seems, the Nobel Prize in literature goes to an obscure European writer, full of hard consonants and solemn purposes, whom we all agree to honor for a day and forget all about right after. This list of the Great Obscure is long, but the bright exception to it is the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska, who won the Nobel in 1996. Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. Every month, it seems, I give to someone a copy of one of her books and get for her work, in response, not mere admiration or respect but eyes alight with delight, recognition, laughter and that special kind of happiness that comes from seeing a small truth articulated as a sharp ironic point, an emotion given a shape neither all too familiar nor all too abstract. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Thu Jun 7 04:26:03 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:26:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3CBD1071-8DC0-4A06-9999-A1EAA46111D8@earthlink.net> or maybe the last three lines... On May 14, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! > > On 5/14/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere > repetition... > > respectfully > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: New Poetry > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski > > Sent to me by Anna Guterl: > > so you want to be a writer? > by Charles Bukowski > > > if it doesn't come bursting out of you > > in spite of everything, > > don't do it. > > unless it comes unasked out of your > > heart and your mind and your mouth > > and your gut, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit for hours > > staring at your computer screen > > or hunched over your > > typewriter > > searching for words, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it for money or > > fame, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it because you want > > women in your bed, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit there and > > rewrite it again and again, > > don't do it. > > if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, > > don't do it. > > if you're trying to write like somebody > > else, > > forget about it. > > > > if you have to wait for it to roar out of > > you, > > then wait patiently. > > if it never does roar out of you, > > do something else. > > > if you first have to read it to your wife > > or your girlfriend or your boyfriend > > or your parents or to anybody at all, > > you're not ready. > > > don't be like so many writers, > > don't be like so many thousands of > > people who call themselves writers, > > don't be dull and boring and > > pretentious, don't be consumed with self- > > love. > > the libraries of the world have > > yawned themselves to > > sleep > > over your kind. > > don't add to that. > > don't do it. > > unless it comes out of > > your soul like a rocket, > > unless being still would > > drive you to madness or > > suicide or murder, > > don't do it. > > unless the sun inside you is > > burning your gut, > > don't do it. > > > when it is truly time, > > and if you have been chosen, > > it will do it by > > itself and it will keep on doing it > > until you die or it dies in you. > > > there is no other way. > > > and there never was. > > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown > for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they > appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being > obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, > directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an > experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the > intellectual." - Aldous Huxley > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jun 7 11:13:00 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:13:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <3CBD1071-8DC0-4A06-9999-A1EAA46111D8@earthlink.net> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> <3CBD1071-8DC0-4A06-9999-A1EAA46111D8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4668207C.3090808@opus40.org> Or, as Berryman told Merwin: *Berryman* I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write Chris Stroffolino wrote: > or maybe the last three lines... > > On May 14, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! >> >> On 5/14/07, *Linda Sue Grimes* > > wrote: >> >> the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is >> mere repetition... >> >> respectfully >> lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *To:* New Poetry >> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by >> Charles Bukowski >> >> Sent to me by Anna Guterl: >> >> *so you want to be a writer?* >> by *Charles Bukowski* >> >> >> if it doesn't come bursting out of you >> >> in spite of everything, >> >> don't do it. >> >> unless it comes unasked out of your >> >> heart and your mind and your mouth >> >> and your gut, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you have to sit for hours >> >> staring at your computer screen >> >> or hunched over your >> >> typewriter >> >> searching for words, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you're doing it for money or >> >> fame, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you're doing it because you want >> >> women in your bed, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you have to sit there and >> >> rewrite it again and again, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you're trying to write like somebody >> >> else, >> >> forget about it. >> >> >> >> if you have to wait for it to roar out of >> >> you, >> >> then wait patiently. >> >> if it never does roar out of you, >> >> do something else. >> >> >> if you first have to read it to your wife >> >> or your girlfriend or your boyfriend >> >> or your parents or to anybody at all, >> >> you're not ready. >> >> >> don't be like so many writers, >> >> don't be like so many thousands of >> >> people who call themselves writers, >> >> don't be dull and boring and >> >> pretentious, don't be consumed with self- >> >> love. >> >> the libraries of the world have >> >> yawned themselves to >> >> sleep >> >> over your kind. >> >> don't add to that. >> >> don't do it. >> >> unless it comes out of >> >> your soul like a rocket, >> >> unless being still would >> >> drive you to madness or >> >> suicide or murder, >> >> don't do it. >> >> unless the sun inside you is >> >> burning your gut, >> >> don't do it. >> >> >> when it is truly time, >> >> and if you have been chosen, >> >> it will do it by >> >> itself and it will keep on doing it >> >> until you die or it dies in you. >> >> >> there is no other way. >> >> >> and there never was. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to >> a dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for >> a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to >> an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with >> words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and >> unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of >> inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - >> Aldous Huxley >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 Thu Jun 7 12:56:55 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:56:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A bitter winter Message-ID: <466838D7.3060005@opus40.org> Some thoughts on Witter Bynner and the Academy of American Poets on my blog. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From alexdickow9 Fri Jun 8 09:52:50 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 06:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manhattan Word of Mouth reading In-Reply-To: <200706071600.l57G04it023654@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <933103.76511.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, Hope to see you there! Amicalement, Alex Word of Mouth June 14th at 7pm @ Bluestockings Radical Books 172 Allen St. (Between Stanton and Rivington) Readers will be: Carly Sachs (poetry) Annie Choi (non-fiction) Alexander Dickow (poetry) Amy Lawless (poetry) Visit www.megpunschke.com/wordofmouth.html for a complete list of 2007 events. -- Best Regards, Meghan Punschke WoM Curator www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From jforjames Fri Jun 8 10:16:01 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:16:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: [Poetry Center help wanted: temporary administrative asst In-Reply-To: <466845E5.1040506@english.umass.edu> References: <466845E5.1040506@english.umass.edu> Message-ID: <8C977EEAD884225-340-DFF2@MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com> Attached Message From: Poetry Temp 1 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Poetry Center help wanted: temporary administrative asst Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:51:37 -0400 ? ? JOB OPPORTUNITY June 7, 2007 Job Posting #17-07 ? Administrative Assistant, Unterberg Poetry Center Tisch Center for the Arts ONE YEAR POSITION TEMPORARY POSITION DATES - July 2, 2007 ? July 2, 2008 ? ? ? ? Position Summary Reporting to the Director and the Managing Director of the Unterberg Poetry Center, the administrative assistant will provide administrative support for the Unterberg Poetry Center?s programs, classes and outreach programs. ? Position Accountabilities Provide general office support including handling phone calls, e-mail queries, faxing, copying, maintaining office supplies and tracking Poetry Center expenses. Assist Director in administering Main Reading Series and Biographers and Brunch lecture series by preparing author contracts, administering and tracking author honoraria; making hotel and travel arrangements; tending to room and AV setups for all events and reserve seat arrangements, and acting as liaison with backstage staff, house manager and box office. Assist Managing Director in administering Writing Program by helping to prepare contracts and coordinate instructor honoraria; prepare and check room and AV setups for classes; field phone inquiries and act as liaison with students and teachers; log in manuscript submissions for workshops; notify and register accepted students and cover weekend classes. Act as liaison for Poetry Center Patrons Program by processing correspondence, renewals and reserved seats. Assist with administration of ?Discovery?/The Nation Poetry Contest by maintaining mailing lists; preparing annual contest flyer; acting as liaison with judges and contest coordinators and processing contest submissions. Prepare bibliographies for annual Reading Series and Biographers & Brunch lecture series; act as liaison with Barnes & Noble for book sales at events. Maintain Poetry Center files and audio archives. Diplomatic skill in dealing with authors and the public. Perform other related duties as assigned or requested. ? Position Qualifications Requirements:? High School Diploma or equivalent. Familiarity with contemporary literature preferred.? Skill in written communication.? Knowledge of computer programs including MSWord and Excel, and mail merge functions.? Highly organized and detail oriented.? Ability to work under pressure and balance several tasks at once.? Previous office and/or editorial experience needed. ? Hours of Work: Typical work schedule Monday 10:00AM to 10:00PM, Tuesday through Friday 10:00AM to 6:00PM, with 45 minute meal break.? Additional weekend and evening work required based on reading and writing program schedules.? ? ? ? ? Please send resume with cover letter to: 92nd Street Y, Human Resources-EL, 1395 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10128. Fax:? 212-410-1254. Email:? humanresources at 92Y.org. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2493 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jun 8 12:23:52 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:23:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail .com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [New-Poetry] American Modernism Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 8 12:29:16 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:29:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY><4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <006101c7a9ea$28b524f0$64ee064f@ANNY> How very nice of you Bob, I do appreciate any mention. Unluckily I switched to Beta Blogger and lost all my links, my sitemeter, and my moon (I also loved that moon: waxing and waning) I am therefore quite depressed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [New-Poetry] American Modernism Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony Fri Jun 8 13:01:41 2007 From: tony (Tony Trigilio) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:01:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs Message-ID: <46698B75.7000803@starve.org> Bob, if it fits your project, mine's at: http://shimmykat.blogspot.com. Thanks-- Best, Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob From tony Fri Jun 8 13:03:45 2007 From: tony (Tony Trigilio) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:03:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Incorrect blog address Message-ID: <46698BF1.1050002@starve.org> Sorry, Bob, but I think I gave you the wrong address. Should be: http://shimmykat.blogspot.com Thanks-- Best, Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 8 16:40:41 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:40:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] :-) Message-ID: <001b01c7aa0d$48248c40$978d3052@ANNY> "Repeated stresses served as pneumonic devices to help the ancient bards remember excessively long poems." (from a student paper on Beowulf) from Clarinda Harriss's poem: Pneumonic/Mnemonic devices http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jun 8 19:58:31 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:58:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:SPR Column on Blogs References: <46698BF1.1050002@starve.org> Message-ID: <023901c7aa28$ed7092a0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Thanks, Tony. Will start a new list of blogs to mention in some future column. Column just done ran out of room--with a mention of The Mole's blog, by the way--which I mention because I forgot to in my other post about blogs. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 9 09:19:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:19:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joan Armatrading References: <46698BF1.1050002@starve.org> <023901c7aa28$ed7092a0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004301c7aa98$df9f79f0$103d014f@ANNY> My favorite by Joan Armatrading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvMxSjIUx70 Love And Affection -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 9 09:56:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:56:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY><4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu><019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <006101c7a9ea$28b524f0$64ee064f@ANNY> Message-ID: <006801c7aa9e$04704610$103d014f@ANNY> I "riverted to the classic template" and I have all my links back + my Creative Commons Licence, my Moon phases, the sitemeter - it is all there, even the world map ! How did I do it? I clicked on Template (in the Posting / Settings section) chose the Htlm version found a label at the bottom with: "Rivert to the classic template" and everything is back again. Many thanks to Kaz who tried to help me out, but I do not care for the BetaBlogger any more, :-) Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs How very nice of you Bob, I do appreciate any mention. Unluckily I switched to Beta Blogger and lost all my links, my sitemeter, and my moon (I also loved that moon: waxing and waning) I am therefore quite depressed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [New-Poetry] American Modernism Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 13:26:21 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 13:26:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] National Poetry Map Launched Message-ID: Poetry Nation (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/382) (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/382) The National Poetry Map on Poets.org just got bigger and better. Take a journey through the country's vast array of poetry resources and discover local landmarks, evocative poems, neighborhood celebrations, and hometown heroes. With countless new information added, each state page now features local conferences, festivals, event listings, poetry-friendly bookstores, journals, presses, as well as state-specific poets, poems, and poetic history. On the web at: _www.poets.org/map_ (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/382) Sampled States (http://www.poets.org/state.php/varState/MA) (http://www.poets.org/state.php/varState/MA) Head west to California to see Robinson Jeffer's Tor House, City Lights Bookstore, and Berkeley's Poetry Walk, and explore the roots of the Beat Movement and Language poetry. Or travel south, to Florida, and join Donald Justice, Nathaniel Mackey, Geri Doran, and others in the place Elizabeth Bishop called "the state with the prettiest name." Rediscover the home of Gwendolyn Brooks, Carl Sandburg, and Li-Young Lee in Illinois, and stop by Green Mill Cocktail Lounge, the birthplace of the poetry slam movement. Pull over in Massachusetts to tour the homes of Emily Dickinson and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and visit the nation?s oldest all-poetry bookstore. Homestate, Homepage Plot your course now and return regularly to find out what's new in your neighborhood. Linking to a state from your browser, blog, or website is as easy as remembering its postal abbreviation. Simply add the state's two-letter code after the Poets.org URL to travel instantly to the state's homepage. For example, to visit Massachusetts, go to _www.poets.org/MA_ (http://www.poets.org/MA) . Local Dispatch The country is always active and alive with poetry, and so the National Poetry Map will keep expanding. Tell us about poetry in your area. Send local dispatches and suggestions to _map at poets.org_ (mailto:map at poets.org) . Mark Your Calendar (and Ours!) The local events that appear on each state page can also be found on the lively Poets.org events calendar, which lists hundreds of upcoming readings and festivals across the country, and can be browsed by location, date, or keyword. Submit events for inclusion in the calendar through an easy electronic form: _poets.org/calendar_ (http://www.poets.org/calendar.php/varClear/1) . ____________________________________ Thanks for being a part of the Poets.org community. _Poets.org_ (http://www.poets.org/) is just one of many programs of the Academy of American Poets. The Academy serves millions of people every year and depends upon the generous _support_ (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/4) of its members and donors. _Click here_ (http://www.poets.org/unsub.php) to unsubscribe from this list. Academy of American Poets 584 Broadway, Suite 604 New York, NY 10012 212-274-0343 _academy at poets.org_ (mailto:academy at poets.org) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 14:57:22 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 14:57:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Hughes and translation Message-ID: _http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2180-23207-2645341-23207,00.htm l_ (http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2180-23207-2645341-23207,00.html) Ted Hughes and translation Clive Wilmer Ted Hughes SELECTED TRANSLATIONS 368pp. Faber and Faber. ?20. 0 571 22140 8 Translation is an imperfect art ? even an impossible one. That is the truism. But it would be a very eccentric devotee of literature who for lack of Greek or Russian refused to read Homer or Tolstoy. Lyric poetry is more challenging to the translator than narrative literature is, since little can be separated out from the choice of specific words, their sounds, rhythms and associations, to say nothing of poetic form and the elaborations of syntax. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 9 15:30:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 21:30:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] quite amazing Message-ID: <012d01c7aacc$b3eca830$103d014f@ANNY> from Tom Beckett's blog, http://voice-noise.blogspot.com/ see Women in Art on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 15:59:22 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:59:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... Message-ID: _http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html_ (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html) Poems for the People Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. --- Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Sat Jun 9 17:29:53 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 16:29:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... References: Message-ID: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html Poems for the People Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. --- Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cralan Sat Jun 9 17:37:32 2007 From: cralan (cralan kelder) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:37:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: mmm, puerto rico is sometimes referred to as the 51st state? I think because puerto ricans are entitled passport holders...maybe us virgin islands not 100% sure on this, being a poet and all. my guess is that 51st state is kinda derogatory, a way to describe places under us jurisdiction, but not admitted into the club, cause we?d have to change all those flags, in slam poetic terms, it seems nicer & inclusive. On 6/9/07 11:29 PM, "Linda Sue Grimes" wrote: > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: JforJames at aol.com >> >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM >> >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... >> >> >> >> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html >> Poems for the People >> Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo >> >> >> >> Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry >> Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. >> >> >> >> In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a >> pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli >> Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But >> Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in >> poems than in Prozac. >> >> >> >> --- >> >> >> >> Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't >> feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book >> has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media >> diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the >> cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) >> but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits >> somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > See what's free at AOL.com . > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sat Jun 9 17:41:21 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:41:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... Message-ID: Kind of like saying you only have to sell 30 copies to have a best seller in poetry? Let's not forget--TIME once wouldn't hire John Berryman to write copy. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sat Jun 9 18:36:14 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:36:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <466B2B5E.3000005@myuw.net> Ted Berriganland Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't > like that... > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html > Poems for the People > Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo > > Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at > the Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in > D.C., May of 2007. > > In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a > pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can > thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis > and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is > apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. > > --- > > Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new > stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller > list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry > is the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally > baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's > Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely > consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits > somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cstroffo Sat Jun 9 19:57:52 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 16:57:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <9975D066-6A4C-4395-8994-B854F6CFBEBA@earthlink.net> I keep thinking of that song by a british "punkish" band from the 80s, "we're the 51st state of america" (though maybe mr. GROSSMAN meant canada, or the district of columbia On Jun 9, 2007, at 2:29 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like > that... > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html > Poems for the People > Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo > > Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the > Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in > D.C., May of 2007. > > In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a > pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can > thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis > and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is > apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. > > --- > > Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new > stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller > list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is > the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally > baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's > Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely > consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits > somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. > > > > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 20:58:27 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 20:58:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poet finds God Message-ID: _http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html_ (http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html) Gazing into the Abyss The sudden appearance of love and the galvanizing prospect of death lead a young poet back to poetry and a ?hope toward God? By Christian Wiman Though I was raised in a very religious household, until about a year ago I hadn?t been to church in any serious way in more than 20 years. It would be inaccurate to say that I have been indifferent to God in all that time. If I look back on the things I have written in the past two decades, it?s clear to me not only how thoroughly the forms and language of Christianity have shaped my imagination, but also how deep and persistent my existential anxiety has been. I don?t know whether this is all attributable to the century into which I was born, some genetic glitch, or a late reverberation of the Fall of Man. What I do know is that I have not been at ease in this world. Poetry, for me, has always been bound up with this unease, ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy Sun Jun 10 11:40:06 2007 From: edmundhardy (Edmund Hardy) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:40:06 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] two new ebooks In-Reply-To: <200706051600.l55G05it005528@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: "Intercapillary Space" http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2007/06/ebooks-4-and-5.html two new ebooks from UK based writers: Carol Watts: alphabetise A prose poem chronicle. First exhibited in 'Different Alphabets', Bury Text Festival, 2005, this ebook edition consists of each page photographed - part handwritten and part typed, an occasional alphabetical diary. 31 pages. 75 KB. Download FREE Peter Hughes: Berlioz A serial poem. 74 pages. 112 KB. Download FREE It begins like this: 1 first you're sat on your dad's lap then your face is grey as the grave you've used up the years you waited for in a cold wind cold as the winter of your birth you look around seeing nothing but second nature mountains to south & east more geomorphology to north & west the long deluge of silt precipitating through the body _________________________________________________________________ Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to Audition http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk From JforJames Sun Jun 10 12:31:41 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:31:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God Message-ID: I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. Finnegan In a message dated 6/9/2007 8:58:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames writes: _http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html_ (http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html) Gazing into the Abyss The sudden appearance of love and the galvanizing prospect of death lead a young poet back to poetry and a ?hope toward God? By Christian Wiman ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moonspinner Sun Jun 10 12:54:44 2007 From: moonspinner (Melanie Simms) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:54:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Waking the Muse by Melanie Simms and other announcements Message-ID: <000901c7ab80$0c43ec10$2101a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Melanie Simms' award winning collection of poetry, Waking the Muse is available for purchase on Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com, Target.com, and several other national and international distribution sites. Visit the website of Melanie Simms at www.poetmelaniesimms.net for more information and to request a copy of her book online to receive an autographed copy. Announcement: Melanie's website: www.poetmelaniesimms.net also features free e-cards, links to discounted poetry books and more. Enjoy authentic sounds of the sea and stunning lighthouse graphics as you browse. This is a family-friendly website. Announcement: Visit Melanie on Ebay; PoetAngel41; for rare and antiquarian books, including poetry books and more. www.ebay.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 13:07:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:07:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] McKay & Wright win Griffin Poetry Prize Message-ID: _http://thechronicleherald.ca/Books/840689.html_ (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Books/840689.html) Don McKay wins Griffin Poetry Prize By The Canadian Press TORONTO ? A veteran Canadian author who has twice won the Governor General? s award for poetry was one of two recipients of the prestigious Griffin Poetry Prize, awarded Wednesday at a lavish ceremony in Toronto. Canadian Don McKay won for Strike/Slip, his eleventh book of poetry, which was lauded by judges as a book of "patience, courage, and quiet eloquence." The $100,000 award, worth $50,000 each to a Canadian and an international recipient, is among the most lucrative poetry prizes in the world. American Charles Wright took the international prize for his book of poetry, Scar Tissue. Wright is a prolific poet and professor who received the 1998 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry. The audience in Toronto?s trendy Distillery District erupted in applause as McKay bounded onstage to receive his award. The 65-year-old poet, a three-time nominee for the Griffin, called his victory a "deeply moving experience" and spoke to a recurring theme of the night: whether Canadian poetry is being marginalized. "I don?t think that poetry is in any danger, that it runs deep and will always be there. It will survive, with cockroaches, beyond us," he said, eliciting a big laugh from the crowd. The British Columbia writer is considered Canada?s top nature poet. McKay said the prize will allow him to continue his research and field work, as well as allow him to lend support to charitable causes that work in social and environmental action. The Griffin Poetry Prize was launched seven years ago by Toronto businessman Scott Griffin and a group of writers including Margaret Atwood and Michael Ondaatje, both of whom were present at Wednesday?s ceremony. In each category, the prize is awarded for the best collection of poetry in English published during the preceding year. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 13:10:51 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:10:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollo sonnets Message-ID: _http://www.brooklynrail.org/2007/6/books/poetry-roundup_ (http://www.brooklynrail.org/2007/6/books/poetry-roundup) Poetry Roundup by Jeffrey Cyphers Wright Anselm Hollo, Guests of Space (Coffee House Press, 2007) After thirty poetry books, Anselm Hollo looks back in these epic sonnets. ? Guests in Space? is full of friends and authors from across the ages. An elegiac tone permeates and percolates as Hollo ruminates over life. Reflections are punctuated by quotes and observations. Lyric cement and incisive comment bind the lines into powerful amalgams. A very close friend of the poet Ted Berrigan, the collection echoes Berrigan? s long sonnet sequence, Many Happy Returns ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 13:19:26 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:19:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] McKay & Wright win Griffin Poetry Prize Message-ID: See Wright's comment...I think poets have hit a new low. Now we're being compared to cockroaches. Finnegan In a message dated 6/10/2007 1:08:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The 65-year-old poet, a three-time nominee for the Griffin, called his victory a "deeply moving experience" and spoke to a recurring theme of the night: whether Canadian poetry is being marginalized. "I don?t think that poetry is in any danger, that it runs deep and will always be there. It will survive, with cockroaches, beyond us," he said, eliciting a big laugh from the crowd. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Jun 10 13:56:30 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:56:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CRWOPPS Message-ID: <731bb17a0706101056t6e2e9767p3a02d43621813a47@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone here at NewPoetry subscribe to a Yahoo list called CRWOPPS-B? I believe that Allison Joseph is the admin. I used to be subscribed to it (I thought). But no email has come through lately. Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LauraHeidy Sun Jun 10 14:00:51 2007 From: LauraHeidy (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:00:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] CRWOPPS Message-ID: In a message dated 6/10/2007 1:56:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: Does anyone here at NewPoetry subscribe to a Yahoo list called CRWOPPS-B? I believe that Allison Joseph is the admin. I know that Allison switched servers a few weeks ago.....and she was on hiatus for a short bit, but I'm still getting her notices every day. The address to subscribe (or re-subscribe, as the case may be) is: _CRWROPPS-B-owner at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:CRWROPPS-B-owner at yahoogroups.com) or: _crwropps-b at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:crwropps-b at yahoogroups.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 14:05:01 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:05:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Conference Message-ID: _http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20070608_For_serious_poets__t he_lines_form_here.html_ (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20070608_For_serious_poets__the_lines_form_here.html) Posted on Fri, Jun. 08, 2007 For serious poets, the lines form hereWest Chester conference shows their passion. By Jeff Gammage Inquirer Staff Writer The event is not so much a conference as a summit - a gathering of some of the best in American letters, a meeting of the most accomplished and influential people you've never heard of. Kay Ryan? Dana Gioia? Rock stars. At least here. The four-day event, which concludes tomorrow and is a major occasion on the literary calendar, is known for its intellectual rigor and ability to shape conversation about poetry. Here, budding poets pay to be schooled in traditional elements of their calling - to learn the nature of narrative, the reason of rhyme. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 Sun Jun 10 14:48:49 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] hapax summer 2007 In-Reply-To: <200706101600.l5AG04it031113@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <565232.7300.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, One of my longer poems has been published in the new issue of the French literary journal Hapax! There are only 100 copies available, so order yours soon. To order this issue of Hapax from outside of Europe, backchannel me and I will help you obtain a copy. You can find information about the journal and related projects at www.larepubliquemondialedeslettres.com. To order the journal in Europe: Pour commander la revue ? partir de l?Europe: Association Ferraille 132 rue Ponsardin 51100 Reims FRANCE T?l: 03 26 09 51 43 hapaxUNDERSCOREeditionsATyahooDOTfr JUIN 2007 AVIS DE PARUTION Revue Hapax ?t? 2007 208 pages + 1 CD 10 euros (+ frais de port : 3 euros) Tirage limit? ? 100 exemplaires ISBN 978-2-9529001-2-6 * Dossier : Transcr?ations ? Fran?ois Vaucluse, L?art de traduire ? Eric Houser, Patch ! ? Alexander Dickow, Prince/Dragon ? Haroldo De Campos (par In?s Oseki-D?pr?), Translucif?ration * Textes ? David Mus, Le Lac ? Jean-Patrice Courtois, Mobile ? Franck La?s, L?effet B. ? Andr? Gache, NOM ? Zolt?n Hom?lyos, Discours de cl?ture ? Jacques Demarcq, ?Crivent ? L.L. De Mars, Pratique du Golem ? Frank?tienne, Mots d?ailes en infini d?ab?me ? Dominique Meens, L?Hirondelle * CD ? M?, Ars gratia artis + extrait de Vers o (?piquaresque ro?me) * Critique ? Alain Frontier, Th?orie de la th?orie www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From LauraHeidy Sun Jun 10 14:58:58 2007 From: LauraHeidy (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:58:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Conference Message-ID: In a message dated 6/10/2007 2:05:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The four-day event, which concludes tomorrow and is a major occasion on the literary calendar, is known for its intellectual rigor and ability to shape conversation about poetry. Here, budding poets pay to be schooled in traditional elements of their calling - to learn the nature of narrative, the reason o f rhyme. Dan and I drove down there yesterday for the last day. There's a small accounting on my blog - _http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/2007/06/13th-annual-poetry-conference-at-west. html_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/2007/06/13th-annual-poetry-conference-at-west.html) Lo ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 10 15:58:24 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:58:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: Message-ID: <003c01c7ab99$b505ca30$3da93452@ANNY> It almost gave me the shivers. >From what I understand he is 40 years old. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. Finnegan In a message dated 6/9/2007 8:58:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames writes: http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html Gazing into the Abyss The sudden appearance of love and the galvanizing prospect of death lead a young poet back to poetry and a ?hope toward God? By Christian Wiman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Jun 10 17:10:30 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:10:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: Message-ID: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty years with no significant ill effects from his disease. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 10 17:28:18 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:28:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00b201c7aba6$43d14ee0$3da93452@ANNY> If you were in Italy, Bob, they would say of you: E' tagliato con l'accetta. He's cut down with an axe I mean, no platonic variations, :-) From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:10 PM I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty years with no significant ill effects from his disease. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Mon Jun 11 05:49:25 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:49:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <9975D066-6A4C-4395-8994-B854F6CFBEBA@earthlink.net> References: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <9975D066-6A4C-4395-8994-B854F6CFBEBA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: "the the" is the band, it's on the single infected. If you ain't guessed by now, it's a derogatory term, indicating a subservient role to the US. According to google, the current "51st state", or country whose leader has his tongue furthest up Bush's arse, is Australia, although the UK has held the title in the past and in all likelihood will do so in future.*hangs head in shame* on both counts. Roger On 6/10/07, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > I keep thinking of that song by a british "punkish" band from the 80s, > "we're the 51st state of america" > > (though maybe mr. GROSSMAN meant canada, or the district of columbia > > > > > On Jun 9, 2007, at 2:29 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... > > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html > Poems for the People > Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo > > Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry > Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. > > In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a > pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli > Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But > Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in > poems than in Prozac. > > --- > > Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't > feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book > has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media > diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the > cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) > but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it > sits somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. > > > > > > ________________________________ > See what's free at AOL.com. > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons." Roman Proverb From grahamd Mon Jun 11 10:15:31 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:15:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail .com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I am selfish. I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed your writing habits notably? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry > blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a > number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike > Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another > installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of > blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I > thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of > the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its > URL. > > Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't > be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the > whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm > doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, > Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to > say much about any of them--but something. > > Thanks, Bob > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 11 11:53:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:53:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY><4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu><019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <005001c7ac40$b12a91f0$e2af3452@ANNY> What you are writing and sharing with us, is exceptional. I have a blog and my spontaneous reaction to your observation of wanting to _hide your thoughts made my inner I speak up: nothing more secret than a blog! Oh yes, the sitemeter shows that many were there browsing around, but since this is the time of plenty in the history of poetry, things get read and forgotten, or maybe not even read. As a matter of fact I do not post too many poems, as I have recently collected my latest, still online, but on a different site. I use my blog as a big fat agenda. I has pics in it, thoughts, links, unsaid things, observations, and some more. I like to have a place where I can find my things and quotations. There is a slot in which you can type a word, for example "well" and there you have all the posts that contain that word. A luxury for those who like me had to move frequently and have forever missed that book, that quotation, that idea that might have led to something else, I am also very interested in knowing what a blog is for the other bloggers. From: David Graham Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:15 PM No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I am selfish. I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed your writing habits notably? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 11 12:45:13 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:45:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> David, I, too, am (or was) a religious journal-keeper. The blog has taken the place of my journal because in my journal, I wrote the kinds of things I write about in my blog: poetry, personal observations, random quotations, religious questions. theodicy, philosophy, & the like. I have been trying to get myself back on a regular schedule (including getting back to my journal). Since my son was born, everything (& I do mean everything) has gone out the window: no more leisurely mornings writing in my office, no more long afternoon at the library or coffee shop reading a novel or book of poems, no more regularly-scheduled writing. So, I'm probably a bad case study, given my three-month-old. Still, I like having a blog because my blog connects me with other writers. I don't always agree with what they have to say, but I do enjoy hearing others' words, even if I never comment. I've even met & cultivated a couple of friendships via blogs: Gary McDowell (of the Midamerican Review) & Steven Schroeder (of Sturgeon's Law) are just a couple of people I've met via my blog & theirs. Occasionally, I've written a small review of a poet that I like & that poet has contacted me. I met Nicholas Samaras because this way. Aside from meeting folks, I enjoy the fact that however small, I have an audience for my ideas. Anywho, just my random thoughts. I'm off to prep for class. Best, Jeff Newberry On 6/11/07, David Graham wrote: > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am not > filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it would > be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I am > selfish. > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and am > pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I am > rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral notebook, > black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an anti-blog > ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its privacy. > Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that > keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how > disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm > afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix something > that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. It's hard > to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or worse, > encourage more self-censorship. > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think the > world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . . . > If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in addition > to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed your > writing habits notably? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in > my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, > covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for > instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning > David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the > blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of > the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. > > Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be > exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range > of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be > about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if > he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but > something. > > Thanks, Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 11 12:45:34 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:45:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706110945k6ee199cdp77fdacaf940e3bf8@mail.gmail.com> Edit: "I met Nicholas Samaras this way." --Jeff On 6/11/07, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > David, > > I, too, am (or was) a religious journal-keeper. The blog has taken the > place of my journal because in my journal, I wrote the kinds of things I > write about in my blog: poetry, personal observations, random quotations, > religious questions. theodicy, philosophy, & the like. > > I have been trying to get myself back on a regular schedule (including > getting back to my journal). Since my son was born, everything (& I do mean > everything) has gone out the window: no more leisurely mornings writing > in my office, no more long afternoon at the library or coffee shop reading a > novel or book of poems, no more regularly-scheduled writing. > > So, I'm probably a bad case study, given my three-month-old. > > Still, I like having a blog because my blog connects me with other > writers. I don't always agree with what they have to say, but I do enjoy > hearing others' words, even if I never comment. I've even met & cultivated > a couple of friendships via blogs: Gary McDowell (of the Midamerican > Review) & Steven Schroeder (of Sturgeon's Law) are just a couple of people > I've met via my blog & theirs. Occasionally, I've written a small review of > a poet that I like & that poet has contacted me. I met Nicholas Samaras > because this way. > > Aside from meeting folks, I enjoy the fact that however small, I have an > audience for my ideas. > > Anywho, just my random thoughts. I'm off to prep for class. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/11/07, David Graham wrote: > > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am > > not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it > > would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I > > am selfish. > > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and > > am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I > > am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral > > notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an > > anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its > > privacy. Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one > > thing that keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no > > matter how disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy > > option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild > > experimentation. > > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix > > something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. > > It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or > > worse, encourage more self-censorship. > > > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think > > the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . > > . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in > > addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. > > > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed > > your writing habits notably? > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs > > in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, > > covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for > > instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning > > David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the > > blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of > > the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. > > > > Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be > > exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range > > of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be > > about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if > > he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but > > something. > > > > Thanks, Bob > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jun 11 12:45:34 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:45:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail .com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <8C97A5F10A7BA72-21C-15D5C@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Here's one poet's take on the experience of poetry blogging... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179635 Just Get the Poems Out There How one writer found her home among the poet bloggers. by Shanna Compton Totally thrilling. Within the month I was thinking, damn it. Could I have skipped my MFA program (which I?d delayed for years after my BA, unsure and wary) if the blogs had arrived sooner? (I was already working as a writer and had no plans to teach.) On these emerging blogs, as well as on e-mail lists and forums, I?d finally found what I?d been looking for working in publishing, hanging around at readings, and going to grad school: other poets. Not famous ones, elder ones, teaching ones, laureate ones, or the ones with books from Knopf stocked at Barnes & Noble. The other ones. Ones like me. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Jun 11 12:57:59 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like In-Reply-To: <200706111556.l5BFuuis020231@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <933686.19163.qm@web83809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Chris-- "were the 51st state of america" The band is New Model Army. Album is Ghost of Cain from 1985 I think reference is that England is assimilating American culture Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Mon Jun 11 13:23:18 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:18 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706111023s5c5f6ba4vba6147730d0fae8b@mail.gmail.com> For what it's worth, I have always kept my journal on paper and continue to do so. There's no way to be sure about the causes, but I write much *more* on paper now that I blog... but the kinds of things I blog about are most often different from things I journal about, though journals (and letters) often contain material stimulated by writing in my blog or reading those of others. I know we disagree, but I continue to maintain that thoughtful postings to an email list is not an activity that is significantly different from blogging-- the idea that the email list represents an audience that one "knows" and a more controlled dissemination of one's work is mostly a comforting fiction. But it is a different dynamic and while I'd prefer to see more of the interesting people here blogging (because it's easier to refer to and share those conversations with people who need to hear it and because the poetry blogosphere is very heavily weighted in the post-avant direction), I've no desire to convince them to do so. c From skip Mon Jun 11 13:26:53 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:26:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7ac4d$ba2bcb40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I've not done blogging at my small blog, but have used it the way a painter might use a warehouse a few blocks from downtown in a town of maybe 15,000-40,000. I paint in it. It is semi-public (Anny's right, there such a plethora of fine writing that not much gets seen much less read) space, say with a window along a side street, such that someone could stop and smoke a cigarette while watching new large canvas take shape, perhaps returning over several weeks. Or a kid might stand up on a box and watch for a bit. Someone might eat the apple from his lunch during fair days. I have written a long work in on it (Sept. 06-May 07) and am revising it now: http://skipfox.blogspot.com/ A sort of Sam Spade on hallucinogens (figuratively) in a futuristic world in which cloning. . . . Well, come look in the window. I think I mentioned it once either here or elsewhere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jun 11 13:57:59 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:57:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> I'm absolutely allergic to journals (my own, that is) and could never keep one. A blog, being more public, doesn't have to be about me, which I find a lot more doable. Jeff Newberry wrote: > David, > > I, too, am (or was) a religious journal-keeper. The blog has taken > the place of my journal because in my journal, I wrote the kinds of > things I write about in my blog: poetry, personal observations, > random quotations, religious questions. theodicy, philosophy, & the like. > > I have been trying to get myself back on a regular schedule (including > getting back to my journal). Since my son was born, everything (& I > do mean everything) has gone out the window: no more leisurely > mornings writing in my office, no more long afternoon at the library > or coffee shop reading a novel or book of poems, no more > regularly-scheduled writing. > > So, I'm probably a bad case study, given my three-month-old. > > Still, I like having a blog because my blog connects me with other > writers. I don't always agree with what they have to say, but I do > enjoy hearing others' words, even if I never comment. I've even met & > cultivated a couple of friendships via blogs: Gary McDowell (of the > Midamerican Review) & Steven Schroeder (of Sturgeon's Law) are just a > couple of people I've met via my blog & theirs. Occasionally, I've > written a small review of a poet that I like & that poet has contacted > me. I met Nicholas Samaras because this way. > > Aside from meeting folks, I enjoy the fact that however small, I have > an audience for my ideas. > > Anywho, just my random thoughts. I'm off to prep for class. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/11/07, *David Graham* > wrote: > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that > I am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, > and surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the > world, but the fact is, I am selfish. > > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, > and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like > many writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a > 9x6 lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to > the notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the > essential nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no > one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me > honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how > disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy > option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild > experimentation. > > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix > something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal > workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my > journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I > think the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up > & post here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably > be tempted to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it > didn't hurt the analog journal. > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging > changed your writing habits notably? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry >> blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a >> number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike >> Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another >> installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of >> blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I >> thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one >> of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me >> know its URL. >> >> Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't >> be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across >> the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The >> column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, >> Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. >> Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. >> >> Thanks, Bob >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd Mon Jun 11 14:38:22 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:38:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> Message-ID: What makes you think a journal has to be about its author, Tad? This is a serious question. My only "rule" in my journal is that it is private writing. Which isn't the same thing as autobiographical. I simply tell myself I don't have to show it to anyone, though of course quite a lot of stuff makes it out into public view after incubating & being revised. Many journal entries are not about me, in any case, and I almost never use the journal as a diary of my day or my emotional ebb-and-flow. For that matter, I've seen a great many blogs that are very much about their authors' every transient notion & emotion. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 11, 2007, at 1:57 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I'm absolutely allergic to journals (my own, that is) and could > never keep one. A blog, being more public, doesn't have to be about > me, which I find a lot more doable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmarcacci Mon Jun 11 16:51:03 2007 From: bmarcacci (Bob Marcacci) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:51:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i started blogging regularly when i moved abroad a five years ago to keep my family tuned in to my life... nothing more artistic than that... i have only blogged one poem during that time, but i put links to current work there... my poems is my poems and me blog is me blog... i always wrote by hand into a journal and still do and find no substitute for that... we use the other side of our brains, ne? or do we? the blog is just a different realm... it forces me to do more and different kinds of writing... it's a record of other important things and fashion and networking and, often, and why not, silly... in fact, the blog forces a different kind of honesty... maybe you're just afraid to write something you never wrote before... and, well, you can't have youtube or audio poetry in your handwritten jobber... anyway, it has only made me write more, and that can't hurt... one must be drenched in words, if possible... unfortunately, if you're not online, you just don't exist... -- Bob Marcacci Marriage: cure for love. - Ambrose Bierce > From: David Graham > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:15:31 -0400 > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I > am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and > surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, > but the fact is, I am selfish. > > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, > and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many > writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 > lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the > notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential > nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no one need ever > see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me honest, gives me > permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how disreputable, > pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm afraid I > would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. > > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix > something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal > workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my > journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think > the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post > here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted > to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt > the analog journal. > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed > your writing habits notably? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry >> blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a >> number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike >> Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another >> installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of >> blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I >> thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of >> the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its >> URL. >> >> Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't >> be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the >> whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm >> doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, >> Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to >> say much about any of them--but something. >> >> Thanks, Bob >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Mon Jun 11 20:14:44 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:14:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: Message-ID: <00c501c7ac86$b0152780$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I've made a blog entry a day (with just a few misses, like when Hurricane Charlie hit) for over three years now. The fact that I consider it a job I have to do is good for me. I've composed maybe twenty poems because I couldn't think of anything else to put in a day's entry. Many other advantages and disadvantages--too many to get into right now for me. Very busy elsewise. --Bob From Opus40-01 Mon Jun 11 20:07:33 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:07:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> Message-ID: <466DE3C5.6070800@opus40.org> I shouldn't generalize. I've always found myself getting in the way when I tried to keep a journal. What I do keep is sketchbooks. And I'm as likely to put words in them as pictures. Does that count? David Graham wrote: > What makes you think a journal has to be about its author, Tad? This > is a serious question. My only "rule" in my journal is that it is > private writing. Which isn't the same thing as autobiographical. I > simply tell myself I don't have to show it to anyone, though of course > quite a lot of stuff makes it out into public view after incubating & > being revised. > > Many journal entries are not about me, in any case, and I almost never > use the journal as a diary of my day or my emotional ebb-and-flow. > > For that matter, I've seen a great many blogs that are very much about > their authors' every transient notion & emotion. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 11, 2007, at 1:57 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> I'm absolutely allergic to journals (my own, that is) and could never >> keep one. A blog, being more public, doesn't have to be about me, >> which I find a lot more doable. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman Mon Jun 11 21:30:24 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:30:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> <466DE3C5.6070800@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00d701c7ac91$43098040$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I shouldn't generalize. I've always found myself getting in the way when > I tried to keep a journal. > > What I do keep is sketchbooks. And I'm as likely to put words in them as > pictures. Does that count? As long as you don't put them together. --Bob From JforJames Mon Jun 11 22:58:12 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:58:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs Message-ID: I was a latecomver to blogging...I resisted it for a while. One thing I didn't like was that the blogs seemed so much like personal soapboxes and not so much a forum for freewheeling poetry talk. With comments sections, though, they are more like lists, but the discussion unfolds more slowly...and with comment sections, blogs are subject to same negatives (bad posting behavior) that crop up on list from time to time. My own blog is just an outlet for my stray musings on poetry (and sometimes art and philosophy), punctuated by quotes that have presented themselves in my reading. It seems to me, there are a lot different kinds of blogs out there thesedays. Some blogs are quite well done, with long essay-like posts and good book reviews...some are pretty breezy affairs, drive-throughs, outlets for personal journaling, pics, and such. It's a good medium for that, I'd say. Some are more like poetic journals. In fact there's a blog that addresses whole idea of the poetic journal. I think some people gravitated to blogging because they didn't feel they could be heard over the din of listserv postings. Thankfully, that's not the case here at NewPoetry, I don't think. But it's a real challenge to even wade through even the digests of some of the larger lists like Poetics and WomPo. Blogs are more isolated...They are loosely connected like cities on a virtual map. Some large metropolises like Silliman's Blog. Other small, quiet, out of the way burgs. Don't blink kind of towns. I like to boop around and check them out, thither and thither, without much of a planned route in mind. Finnegan _http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Jun 12 10:24:41 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:24:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <00d701c7ac91$43098040$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Off topic of blogs and not against Bob, but there's a minor point I think worth bringing up, and one I love to make to students. If you "keep a journal," you tend to filter many things out of it (grocery lists, license numbers of reckless drivers, doodling with words, whatever . . . some of which may have turned into something fruitful). But if you have a "notebook" which you write in just as regularly as if you "kept it," whatever that means, anything visual (and some things otherwise) might go in and prove fruitful. Limitations are part of the "box" we might be in. And I think that there is much that goes unconsidered because of resulting narrowness.(Have you ever noticed how many times people who claim to write everything they know actually have committee meetings or television in their poems?) So I try eliminate any such limitations I might, and writing in a "notebook" I think helps me in that. (Once I published a poem without words titled "Fuckers" which consisted of 14 license plates of people who cut me off in traffic. If you agree that "1" and "7" are slant rhymes, and "X" and "6" rhyme, it was an Italian sonnet. I'm not claiming _that_ was one of the fruitful products of "notebook" writing. As a side note of a side note, I told Christian Bok about that poem when he was here this spring and he wanted a copy to use in his teaching. Hmmm.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:30 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs >I shouldn't generalize. I've always found myself getting in the way when > I tried to keep a journal. > > What I do keep is sketchbooks. And I'm as likely to put words in them as > pictures. Does that count? As long as you don't put them together. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Tue Jun 12 11:45:47 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:45:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c7ad08$c1447060$ddfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> To expand on my little point about the way having a blog one requires oneself to contribute to daily, I think it's being public helps because it means there are people out there who will catch you if you shirk your duty! Or fake it--which means that I do try to be intelligently and interestingly communicative at my blog; or would if I had any readers. I try for coherence in my private diary, too, but not for interestingness. I can say, "today was just like yesterday," in my diary but not at my blog. As for Skip's mixing numbers and letters AND their visual appearance in a poem, I'm too disgusted to say anthing. --Bob From chris.lott Tue Jun 12 13:19:03 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:19:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <00d701c7ac91$43098040$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706121019s6b65f066r577d04139dcc3092@mail.gmail.com> On 6/12/07, Skip Fox wrote: > Off topic of blogs and not against Bob, but there's a minor point I think > worth bringing up, and one I love to make to students. If you "keep a > journal," you tend to filter many things out of it (grocery lists, license > numbers of reckless drivers, doodling with words, whatever . . . some of > which may have turned into something fruitful). But if you have a "notebook" > which you write in just as regularly as if you "kept it," whatever that > means, anything visual (and some things otherwise) might go in and prove > fruitful. Interesting point. I call it "journalling" but it's really about anything and everything and not really a diary... at times, when the well seems completely dry, I might write about something that happened in my life, but it's as likely to be something from 20 years ago as that day. All of it happens in a notebook or three that I carry around with me all the time. Just as I avoid day-to-day diary style entries, I also avoid lavish journals that I would feel bad scribbling in, stuffing into various bags, spilling coffee on, etc. Those leather bound works of art with the finest paper look great and I could imagine someone more interesting, consistent and neat than I am creating a handsome legacy with them... On the other hand, the odd notes that find their way into the journal because it happened to be handy are sometimes the most interesting to look back at! I desperately wish I could draw... a useful skill I've never had any luck developing. c From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 12 15:19:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:19:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: help connect John Kinsella to the lost Poetryetc archive Message-ID: <005901c7ad26$a3ecb4f0$e6df3652@ANNY> I am forwarding to the list, maybe someone can or interested in following this thread? At the moment I barely know I am sitting in front of the screen, thank you, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Vanguardphenom at aol.com To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: help connect John Kinsella to the lost Poetryetc archive Anny, I can't identify the Michael ? who has posted to Finnegan's list, but since you've been in direct email contact with John Kinsella and also belong to New Poetry, perhaps you should be the matchmaker. [...] Referencing: "Hi Barry, A listee (current or former, I don't know) named Michael in Raleigh, NC, rescued all the early stuff several years ago when Jiscmail wanted to dump it. He may well still have the stuff he downloaded, and his last name should be available from Finnegan's list. What he can give John is almost a complete record because he kept everything for his own archive. On the other hand, he may have dumped it all after being unable to find anyone to take it over and maintain it as an archive. For a while, I got plaintive messages from him, saying more or less, "Doesn't anybody want this stuff?" And now someone does! Candice" I remembering being called the "maker of connections". Barry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 12 16:46:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:46:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Richard Rorty Message-ID: <00e001c7ad32$c50752b0$e6df3652@ANNY> http://www.telospress.com/main/index.php?main_page=news_article&article_id=188 Richard Rorty, the leading American philosopher and heir to the pragmatist tradition, passed away on Friday, June 8. He was Professor of Comparative Literature emeritus at Stanford University. In April the American Philosophical Society awarded him the Thomas Jefferson Medal. The prize citation reads: "In recognition of his influential and distinctively American contribution to philosophy and, more widely, to humanistic studies. His work redefined knowledge 'as a matter of conversation and of social practice, rather than as an attempt to mirror nature' and thus redefined philosophy itself as an unending, democratically disciplined, social and cultural activity of inquiry, reflection, and exchange, rather than an activity governed and validated by the concept of objective, extramental truth." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley Tue Jun 12 17:44:55 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:44:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy In-Reply-To: <200705262038.l4QKcUit005741@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705262038.l4QKcUit005741@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <00081124-7776-41DE-BDEB-A2840D2DAA21@overdomain.com> Hal, I'm piling on... I've been thinking about this in terms of what I've been reading lately. I admit that I'm quite a dud when it comes to discussing new- po because I don't seem to get around to much that's really new. In fact, I laughed my way through the blog discussion, remembering how Silliman's original August 2002 posts struck me: "How would anyone do a blog and still have time to write?" I have the same sense today, as I continue editing the same book I was working on five years ago. My book will be perfect soon, and will have a place in heaven (next to the hippopotamus) without my having to dirty my hands at blogging. Nonetheless, your response and your original post interests me... so much so that I think I've read the Gough piece three times. A lot of it I really think is hogwash... like the loss of Aristotle's _Comedy_ dooming us to 2k years of tragedy. After all, Joyce claimed Aristotle as his philosopher and the proximal cause of exact transcriptions of farting, and other antics, for example. Chaucer was pretty hilarious sometimes. And, naturally, I accept your nomination of Shakespeare to the club of comic poets. To begin with, his conception of love is fundamentally comic: that is, love never works out, even when it works out. I realized too that though I love Blake, he never told a joke in his life... (well, I haven't completed Jerusalem or Milton, but if I do, I won't be looking for jokes.) Lorca in poems or plays: completely unfunny. Yeats is terminally serious. (Yes, but even his essays are beautiful!.......) But there is hope, in the strangest of places: TS Eliot is funny! Yes, it is true! Prufrock still makes me laugh: "I grow old. I grow old. I shall wear my trousers rolled." Some lines from Waste Land aspire to black humor in the Bretonian sense: "'That corpse you planted last year in your garden, / Has it begun to sprout?'". And the _Hippo_ is a fine and twisty satire (see below), and I recall Sweeney's erection. As he got older, though, TSE succumbed (as Gough says) more and more to the church, to authority, to his desire to belong-- and this was fatal to his sense of humor, even more so than to his poetry. When I read _Four Quartets_ this last time, I laughed---- not because it's funny but because it isn't. In fact, it reads to me like bad philosophy with line breaks. WC Williams isn't funny. Crane could not have been. Pound: forget it. Stevens could be funny but his wit is too interior and self-absorbed, his imagination stifled in the tiny closet where he kept it.... I did not laugh at a single one of his collected poems. Heaney never cracked a joke. I laughed at a couple of Liz Bishop's. I know Ginsberg was pretty sure he was funny, but his humor is so tainted in my mind by the dull hipster humor that followed him that I really cannot laugh at any of it (except _Vineland_ by Pynchon). Simic has made me smile a time or two. Zukovsky... I did not understand, therefore could not laugh. I don't find O'Hara funny. I think Ashbery was funny a few times, and I was often expecting to laugh... then not laughing, just feeling kinda sad and alienated. Funnier and more interesting than his contemporaries (though never considered by them to be a poet-- though I know that he was!)... is of course... John Cage. Tips to David: I have found several of the Mark Halliday poems quite amusing. Also, _Thank You (Walt Whitman)_ by Matt Cook is hilarious. But when I went to Cook's website, I didn't like the cover poem or find it amusing. There was a poet on this list Gabe Gudding that started a HumPo list. I asked Rachel Loden by email if I could join and never got a response. And I'm not terribly ambitious in this direction, I suppose, since I never asked again. It is certainly intrinsically funny to write about Richard Nixon. And if anyone I ever heard of writing Simpsonesque poetry it would probably be GGudding. But there is something about his poetry and about that show-- viciousness, I believe, and the tendency to draw human beings as violent, selfish, petty and ugly-- that is impotent to make me laugh. (btw: I'm not denying that humans are these things... but this is where Blake has the leg up: the ability to imagine the beautiful. Cervantes made the greatest novel based on beautiful but impractical human aspirations.) Humor is after all a very delicate matter! The treatise by example of chaotic power of laughter is _Tristram Shandy_ ... my essential guidebook. On film: Charlie Chaplin and Marx Brothers. In poetry... well, I'm still looking. THE HIPPOPOTAMUS by: T.S. Eliot (1888-1965) THE broad-backed hippopotamus Rests on his belly in the mud; Although he seems so firm to us He is merely flesh and blood. Flesh-and-blood is weak and frail, Susceptible to nervous shock; While the True Church can never fail For it is based upon a rock. The hippo's feeble steps may err In compassing material ends, While the True Church need never stir To gather in its dividends. The 'potamus can never reach The mango on the mango-tree; But fruits of pomegranate and peach Refresh the Church from over sea. At mating time the hippo's voice Betrays inflexions hoarse and odd, But every week we hear rejoice The Church, at being one with God. The hippopotamus's day Is passed in sleep; at night he hunts; God works in a mysterious way-- The Church can sleep and feed at once. I saw the 'potamus take wing Ascending from the damp savannas, And quiring angels round him sing The praise of God, in loud hosannas. Blood of the Lamb shall wash him clean And him shall heavenly arms enfold, Among the saints he shall be seen Performing on a harp of gold. He shall be washed as white as snow, By all the martyr'd virgins kist, While the True Church remains below Wrapt in the old miasmal mist. "The Hippopotamus" is reprinted from Poems. T.S. Eliot. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1920. > Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 14:49:14 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Oh my, this is the conventional anthology critique: "But where are > X and Y and Z?" > > "Who are the great funny poets?" is an interesting question, although > I'm not sure that the comic is always funny. > > I'll nominate Shakespeare for starters. > > Pile on. > > Hal > > "Take what you can use and let the rest go by." > --Ken Kesey > From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 13 07:39:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:39:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: WF Price list Message-ID: <002f01c7adaf$86b48cd0$8da93252@ANNY> >From Lawrence Upton: Writers Forum 32 Downside Road Sutton Surrey SM2 5HP WF Publications List June 2007 # 2 This is not a complete list, but it is near it. An omission of a WF title does not necessarily mean it is out of print. We are, however, rather near a final statement of what is available, which will be refined and hopefully finalised over the summer months. Incomplete descriptions will be expanded. The outcome will be placed on the net, hopefully with Paypal. At the moment we can only accept sterling cheques. Non-sterling cheques, please add ?9.00. P & P is for UK. If you genuinely want an item sent abroad, please contact us - don't guess please. P & P costs are for orders for single publications. Because our publications are variously sized, it is not possible to know accurately in advance the total cost of postage and packing where more than one publication is involved. Therefore, large orders may be overcharged. In that event, we shall give you a credit or, if appropriate, a cheque. Some items are in quite short supply and we shall service orders in the sequence in which they are received by post with payment. This list is being sent to all on the wf list simultaneously and will not be posted elsewhere for at least a fortnight. Please make sure you make the cheque payable to Writers Forum and include the delivery address. Other means of payment will be provided in the future, we hope. This is what we can offer now. Please do not send notes and coinage - risking it with sterling is daft, sending anything else is pointless * Adler, Jeremy; The Electric Alphabet; A4 portrait; November 1986 reprinted April 1998; ISBN 978-0-86162-386-0 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Adler, Jeremy & Cobbing, Bob; Towards the city, I - VII; linear texts by Adler and cover and accompanying visual poems by Cobbing; 15 pp; A4 portrair; September 1977 reprinted 1985; ISBN 978-0-86162-171-2 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Basinski, Michael; Mool; 4 pp; December 2000; ISBN 978-1-84254-014-5 ?1.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * bissett, bill; th ekstasee uv aprikots; 16 pp portrait; June 1999; ISBN 978-0-86162-966-4 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * bissett, bill; Vancouvr Mainland Ice & Cold Storage; 42 pp; A5 portrait from A4 folded Japanese fashion, duplicated; cover image by author; July 1973; reprint April 1974; reprint May 1992; reprint June 1999 ISBN 978-0-86162-096-8 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Clarke, Adrian Skeleton Sonnets; 80 pp; November 2002; ISBN 978-1-84254-068-8 4.50 + ?1.00 [p & p for UK} * Cobbing, Bob; 15 Shakespeare Kaku Augmented; 20 pp; B5; ISBN 978-0-86162-818-6 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; ABC in sound; 29 pp A5 portrait; cover image by Jennifer Pike; 1965 (as "Sound Poems"), paperback reprint 2004; ISBN 1 84254 586 8. This is the book that brought Cobbing to wide attention and began his professional career as a poet. ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Destruction in art; edited by Adrian Clarke; cover design Lawrence Upton; A4 portrait; 2004; ISBN 1 84254 589 2 ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob (editor); Gifts for three Sheppards; book compiled on the departure for Merseyside of the Sheppard / Farrell family; contributions from Adrian Clarke, Bob Cobbing, Jennifer Pike, Betty Radin, Lawrence Upton, Johan de Wit ISBN 0 86162 690 7; 16 pp B5 portrait ?2.50 + ?1.00 p & p for UK * Cobbing, Bob; In Line; A4 card folded to make 4 A5 pages; ISBN 0 86162 314 3 ?1.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Lightsong 2; ISBN 978 0 86162 330 3; 6pp small format in an envelope; December 1983 reissued February 2007 ?3.00 + ?1 (p & p UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Members only; July 30th 2000; ISBN 978-0-86162-999-2 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Number Structures; 8pp printed one side only A5, cover by author; printed .and published in Stockholm and was not offered for sale in UK until recently; April 1977; 978-0-86162-158-3 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Ord book; ISBN 978-1-84254-023-7 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Ow 2; 12 pp; A5 portrait; 1996; ISBN 0 86162 661 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Pixology; 8 pp B6 portrait; ISBN 978-1-84254-055-8; February 2002 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Processual Spin-off; 16pp A5 Japanese fold; December 1983; ISBN 0 86162 327 4 ?3 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Raddle; 8 pp A4 portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-440-9 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob (editor); Seevic's feet; an account of the coming together of Art, English, Drama, Sociology & other students at Soth East Esses VIth form college with Bob Cobbing Sound / Found & Visual poet; ISBN 978-0-86162-438-6; June 1989 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Sign writing; "dedicated to the memory of my father, Rob - who was a signwriter - and an ongoing inspiration to me in my work"; ISBN I 84254 020 3; 25th December 2000; ISBN 978-1-84254-020-6 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Stracci 3; May 1988; ISBN 0 86162 423 8 ?3 + ?1 p & p for UK * Cobbing, Bob; Towards design in poetry? part three; 20 pp; A5 portrait; 30th July 2001; ISBN 978-1-84254-036-7 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob et al; Light - visual poems; March 1994; ISBN 978-0-86162-538-3 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Jennifer; Processual Two: After a fashion; 12 pp quarto; August 1983; ISBN 0 86162 321 5 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & bissett, bill; Fiveways; 6 pp Japanese fold A5; November 1978; reprint 16th May 1992; reprint June 1999; ISBN 978-0-86162-223-8 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Griffiths, Bill (editors); VERBI VISI VOCO a performance of poetry 320 pp; B5 portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-501-7 ?5.00 + ?2.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Hawkins, Ralph; Everyday Pursuits; ISBN 978-1-84254-064-0 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Pike, Jennifer & Upton, Lawrence; Curve; ISBN 978-1-84254-011-4 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Segay, Serge; Noise Project; March 1999; 0 86162 866 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Sheppard, Bob; Codes and Diodes; 28 pp A4 portrait; December 1991; ISBN 0 86162 475 0 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Upton, Lawrence (editors); On Word: an anthology of contemporary poetry and method # 2; cover image by Lawrence Upton; features Gilbert Adair, Meredith, Quartermain, Alaric Sumner, Bill Griffiths, Clemente Padin 64 pp B6 portrait; June 2001; ISBN 978-1-84254-002-2 ?5.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Upton, Lawrence (editors); Word Score Utterance Choreography; ISBN 978-0-86162-750-9 ?9.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Edwards, Ken; My Half of the Conversation; 8pp; A6 portrait; chapbook based on A4 card; May 1980; reissued June 2005; ISBN 978-0-86162-263-4 ?0.60 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Ely, Roger; Dreams, fantasies and recollections; 51 pp B5; February 1987 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Farrell, Patricia; French Aster [Crown Shantung]; ISBN 0 86162 456 4; March 1980 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fencott,Clive; Yodelling up the Canyon; 17pp A4 portrait; December 1977; ISBN 0 86162 187 5 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fetherstone, Patrick; 18 Quadruple Readings; Writers Forum publication #22; WFP 16, 20pp single-sided; 8" x 6", duplicated; cover 9?" x 7?", silkscreened by Jennifer Pike from a design by Bob Cobbing; September 1965, reprinted March 1996; ISBN 978-0-86162-022-7 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Muses awaited; 40 pp; B5 portrait; November 1988; ISBN 978-0-86162-428-7 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Noons and afternoons; 36 pp; A5 portrait; November 1989; ISBN 978-0-86162-441-6 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Schools; 38 pp; A5 portrait; April 1991; ISBN 978-0-86162-480-5 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Standing: a poem in thirty stanzas; 32 pp; A5 portrait; October 1991; ISBN 978-0-86162-491-1 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Stories; ISBN 0 86162 405 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Towards a picture 32 pp B5; May 1993; ISBN 0 86162 509 9 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; What it is to reflect; 40 pp; A5 portrait; October 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-467-6 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; Antarktika; 22 pp; A5 portrait from A4 folded Japanese fashion, litho; cover by author; January 1973; reprinted November 1981; August 1984; June 1996; ISBN 978-0-86162-092-0 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; Connecting Tubes; 24pp; A4; ISBN 0 86162 264 2 July 1980; second edition June 1996 ?2.50 +?1 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; On criticism; 21pp quarto portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-344-0 ?2.50 +?1 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; O poems; 14pp; ISBN 0 86162 284 7; November 1981, reprinted June 1996 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; Trowch Eich Radio 'mlaen; 15 pp printed one side only A4 portrait; October 1977; reprinted June 1996; ISBN 0 86162 177 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fisher, Allen; The Art of Flight VI to IX; Poster poem ISBN 0 86162 297 9 December 1981 reissued March 2007 ?3.00 + ?2.00 (p & p for UK * Fisher, Allen; Confidence in lack; 69 pp A4 portrait; comb bound; cover image by author; May 2007; ISBN 978 -1- 84254 -105 - 0 ?7.00 + ?2.00 (p & p for UK) * Freer, Ulli; 7 inch contents; 15 pp; A4 portrait; November 1997; ISBN 978-0-86162-798-1 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Ganick, Peter; c?fe unreal ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Ganick, Peter; more plush: a dialogue; 28 pp; A5 portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-582-6; April 1995 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; A text book of drama; 144 pp B5; June 1987; ISBN 0 86162 403 ?6.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; Book of the boat; 26 pp B5 Japanese fold February 1988; ISBN 0 86162 416 5 ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; Forming Four Dock Poems; published with Pirate Press; 4 pp A5 portrait from A4 Japanese folded; cover by Bob Cobbing; September 1977; reprinted several times; reissued March 2007; ISBN 978-0-86162-172-9 ?1.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill (translator); Llywarch Hen: in Welsh / English; translated with introduction and notes by Bill Griffiths; 18 pp A4 landscape; cover by Bob Cobbing, October 1977; ISBN 0 86162 175 ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; Sun-Card; 8pp; A6 chapbook based on A4 card; June 1978; ISBN 0 86162 208 1 ?1.00 + ?1.60 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths,Bill; Twenty-five pages; 26 pp qto; ISBN 0 86162 180 0 - November ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Guglielmono, Giorgio; The beautiful poems; 32 pp B5; March 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-452-2 ?3.00 + ?1.00 p & p for UK) * Halsey, Alan; The book of coming forth in official secrecy; ISBN 0 86162 278 1; May 1981 reprinted May 1997 and December 1999 ?4.00 + ?1.00 p & p for UK) * Hansel, Stanislaw; Children of Atlantis; June 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-459-1 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Hansel, Stanislaw; Forcefields in February 1985; 14 pp A4 portrait; June 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-461-4 ?2.00 + ?1.00 p & p for UK) * Hawkins, Ralph; Pool; 12 pp B6 portrait; July 2000; ISBN 978-0-86162-995-4 ?2.00 + ?0.60 p & p for UK) * Hawkins, Ralph; The Primeval Atom; 978-1-84254-035-0 ?2.00 + ?0.60 p & p for UK) * Hou?dard, Dom Sylvester and Cobbing, Bob (editors); Kroklok # 2; 32 pp; A4 portrait; duplicated; duplicated cover designed by Peter Mayer and Bob Cobbing. Reprints "Three Minimanifestoes" by Bob Cobbing and publishes poems by Raoul Hausmann, Kurt Schwitters, Antonin Artaud, Rabelais, Peter Mayer, Neil Mills, Charles Verey, Hugo Ball, Severini, Theo van Doesburg. Eugen Gomringer, Pierre Albert-Birot, Michel Seuphor, Henri Chopin and Man Ray; notes by Bob Cobbing; September 1971, reissued January 2007; ISBN 978-0-86162-076-0 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Hou?dard, Dom Sylvester and Cobbing, Bob (editors); Kroklok # 3; 32 pp; A4 portrait; duplicated; duplicated cover designer unknown. Feature: Speech as Mime or Gesture (with examples) by Peter Mayer. Poems by Christian Morgenstern, Ernst Jandl, Peter Finch, Jeremy Adler, Michael Chant, Peter Greenham, Brion Gysin, Ilya Zdanevich, Helmut Heissenbutel, Bob Cobbing, August Stramm (introduction to Stramm by Jeremy Adler); notes by Bob Cobbing; December 1972, reissued February 2007; ISBN 978 0 86162 091 3 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Jackson, Tony & Grierson, Myra; Ryma's Throat; 14 pp A4 portrait; ISBN 0 86162 24 6; May 1988 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * James, Elizabeth; Recognition; 978-0-86162-969-5 ?1.00 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Joris, Pierre; Translations from Arthur Rimbaud's Une Saisonen Enfer; 7 A4 sheets in folder; 15th December 1984 reprinted 3 August 1991; ISBN 978-0-86162-342-6 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * levy, d.a.; Scarab Poems; 14 pp Japanese fold A5; June 1978; reprinted 1996; reprinted 2001; ISBN 978-0-86162-202-3 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Manson, Peter; iter atur e; 32 pp B5 portrait; March 1995; ISBN 978-0-86162-570-3 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; Animal Crackers; 13 pp A5 landscape; March 1984; second reprint ????; third reprint October 1988; ISBN 978-0-86162-334-1 ?1.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; Herein lie tales of two inner cities; 27 pp quarto; May 1986, second reprint October 1988; ISBN 97 8-0-86162-381-5 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; La Quinta del Sordo; 8pp; A4 October 1980; reprinted October 1994; ISBN 978-0-86162-265-8 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; Long Wake; cover design Robert Clark; 25pp; quarto w/ Pirate Press; July 1979; ISBN 978-0-86162-243-6 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Mottram, Eric; Towards design in poetry; 62 pp; A4 portrait; litho; 1977 reprinted 1984 and 1988; 2nd edition November 2004 ISBN 1 84254 618 X ?5 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Musgrove, Keith; Tests; 8pp; A6 chapbook based on A4 card; September 19??, reissued November 2006; ISBN 0 86162 248 0. ?0.60 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Mad with music; with Pirate Press; February 1987; reprint July 1989 ISBN 0 86162 398 3 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Mr. Watkins got Drunk and had to be Carried Home; from an idea by William Burroughs; 48 pp, 8" x 6?", litho, cover design by Jeff Nuttall. 12 copies of first edition numbered and signed by the author. Edition of 500. First edition. September 1968; second edition June 1979; ISBN 0 86162 039 9 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Oscar Christ and the Immaculate Conception; WFP 23,) 32pp, 8" x 6?", litho, cover design by Jeff Nuttall; September 1968; reprint (called "edition") August 1970; reprint May 1997; August 1970 reprint reissued November 2006; ISBN 0 86162 038 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Pieces of poetry; 18 pp printed one side only, 9" x 6?", litho, cover design by Jeff Nuttall from photographs by Dave Trace. Edition of 500. 12 copies numbered and signed by the author; February 1966; reprint May 1997; 978-0-86162-023-4 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Scenes and dubs; with Pirate Press; February 1987 reprint July 1989; ISBN 978-0-86162-400-3 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff Supper moves unlight; March 2002; ISBN 978-1-84254-052-7 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff Two nice legs; ISBN 1 84254 058 ?4.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Viper; 26 pp; colour cover; March 2002; ISBN 1 84254 057 4 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Rushmer, David; Homage to Throbbing Gristle; 24 pp A4 portrait; November 1993; ISBN 978-0-86162-523-9 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Rushmer, David; Ut-trance; 16 pp A5; ISBN 0 86162 454 8 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sheppard, Robert & Cobbing, Bob; Blatent blather / virulent whoops; ISBN 978-1-84254-041-1 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sheppard, Robert & Farrell, Patricia; Free Fists; June 1995; ISBN 978-0-86162-601-4. UK ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sheppard, Robert & Farrell, Patricia; Neutral Drums; July 1999; ISBN 978-0-86162-967-1; ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Simms, Colin; No North Western Passage; 32 pp A4 landscape, cover Bob Cobbing, litho, November 1976 ISBN 0 86162 141 ?3 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sondheim, Alan; Orders of the real; 44 pp; A4 portrait; cover by author; ISBN 1 84254 601 5; 18 June 2005 reissued January 2007 ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Stickney, Walt Christopher; To Night . Little David on Mouth Harp; 12 pp printed one side only; 10" x 8"; cover and illustrations by Brian McCollum; December 1970 ISBN 0 86162 067; ?1 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; Aberrations of mirrors lenses sight (for three voices); first published as RWC # 36, 1998; second edition; cover by Timothy Emlyn Jones; 25 pp A4 portrait; September 2004; ISBN 978-0-86162-544-4 ?4 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; error studies and Portraits; cover by Alaric Sumner; edited by Lawrence Upton; A4 portrait; 24 pp; copies comb bound; July 2004 reprint August 2004 reprint December 2005; ISBN 978-0-86162-570-3 ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; LETTERS for dear AUGUSTINE - the semantic text i.e. excluding the graphic elements; A4 portrait; 41 pp; edited by Lawrence Upton; some copies comb bound; July 2004; third revised edition January 2007; ISBN 978 1 84254 526 3 ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric et al; Shatter; edited by Lawrence Upton; 16 pp; A5 portrait; March 2007; ISBN 978-1-84254-388-1 ?2.00 + ?0.80 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; Text out of image: Sandra Blow; cover image by Sandra Blow; edited by Lawrence Upton: A4 portrait; 28 pp; July 2004; ISBN 1 84254 528 0 ?4.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; The Instability of Inherence Section 1: exploring The Instability; cover image by author; editorial note by Lawrence Upton; 28 pp A5 portrait; ISBN 978 1 84254 373 3; January 2006 ?2.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; The Instability of Inherence Section 2: exploring inherence; cover image by Lawrence Upton; 24 pp A5 portrait; ISBN 978 1 84254 374 1; 4 February 2006 ?2.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; The Unspeakable Rooms; A4; 14 pp; comb bound; cover by Lawrence Upton from advertising material for the mid 90s productions; published with words worth books; October 2003; reprinted August 2004; ISBN 1 84254 530 7 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric with McDermott, Rory; The Unspeakable Rooms: a prescript of performance possibilities; edited by & book design by Lawrence Upton; 7 pp; A5 portrait; June 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-527-0 ?1.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Thurston, Scott; Stateswalk: Poems July 1991 - June 1993; cover and title page collages by Tom Raworth; January 1994; 38 pp A4 portrait; ISBN 0 86162 532 3 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; DAM Diptych, double A4 card; vispo; June 1995 reprinted 2004; reprinted and reissued in a labelled envelope January 2006 ISBN 0 86162 622 2 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Initial Dance; 20 pp; A5 portrait; 2001; ISBN 978-1-84254-040-4. UK ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Networking; 20 pp; A4 portrait; cover by author; 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-599-7 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Remembering Alaric Sumner; co-published with words worth books; 12 pp; A5 portrait; September 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-549-2 ?1.00 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Sculptural Calligraphy; 12 pp; A4 portrait; 2006; ISBN 978-1-84254-603-1 ?4.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Valoch, Jiri; Ga, the first and last collection of sound poems; 20 pp A5 folded Japanese fashion, duplicated; cover designed by Bob Cobbing; July 1971; ISBN 978-0-86162-074-6 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Valoch, Jiri; Semiotic Poems; 30pp; A6 landscape; December 1980; ISBN 978-0-86162-268-9 ?6 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Vassilakis, Nico; The Amputation of L Mendax; cover image by the author; 26 pp; A5 portrait; 2006; ISBN 978 1 84254 385 7. ?2.50 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Weller, M J; Beowulf Cartoon; introduction by Bill Griffiths; published in association with Visual Associations, London; September 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-584- ?15 + ?2 (p & p for UK) * Weller M J; Idiotgram; ISBN 1 84254 013 0 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Whiting, John; Cage on cage; 6 pp in A4 plastic wallet; ISBN 0 86162 350 9; March 1985 2nd edition October 1998 ?4 + ?1 p & p for UK) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 10:46:39 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:46:39 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God In-Reply-To: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130746yc327722h6a51a029639ebb09@mail.gmail.com> On 6/10/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption > I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a > moving essay, straightforward and sincere. > > I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American > Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty years > with no significant ill effects from his disease. I thought the essay was well done, but perhaps I am biased because of my own diagnosis. I no longer understand the role of objectivity in writing and reading. At least a few of us found Wiman's piece moving; I doubt all of us have a terminal condition beyond life itself. but sympathy/empathy seems a fundamental part of the aesthetic response. Maybe some kind of objective approach is what separates the good authors from the rest (including myself), but in most cases I'm just not that interested in achieving the distance to find out. In others I don't think it's possible. c From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 10:53:15 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:53:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > 'Laundry letters' worth millions > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ > index.html > > LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections > of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his > lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a > Swiss laundry room. > > The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years > by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston > Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John > Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I will continue to be unable to see it. c From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 10:59:29 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:59:29 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollo sonnets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130759i5b561550pcf86069582cd73f@mail.gmail.com> On 6/10/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.brooklynrail.org/2007/6/books/poetry-roundup > Poetry Roundup > by Jeffrey Cyphers Wright > > Anselm Hollo, Guests of Space (Coffee House Press, 2007) > > After thirty poetry books, Anselm Hollo looks back in these epic sonnets. "Guests in Space" is full of friends and authors from across the ages. An elegiac tone permeates and percolates as Hollo ruminates over life. Reflections are punctuated by quotes and observations. Lyric cement and incisive comment bind the lines into powerful amalgams. > > A very close friend of the poet Ted Berrigan, the collection echoes Berrigan's long sonnet sequence, Many Happy Returns > > And just below that on the same page is a note about a new book by "our own" Bill Knott featuring his poetry + collages by Star Black. I'd never heard of Star Black, but I found an article about her: http://tinyurl.com/2zhprp and there are images of her work here and there on the web. Searching google for "star black collage" leads to, among other things, a few articles about LeBron James, who apparently skipped collage to go pro ... c From bobgrumman Wed Jun 13 12:14:08 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:14:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706130746yc327722h6a51a029639ebb09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003c01c7add5$e1a143b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > On 6/10/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the >> caption >> I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. >> It's a >> moving essay, straightforward and sincere. >> >> I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American >> Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty >> years >> with no significant ill effects from his disease. > > I thought the essay was well done, but perhaps I am biased because of > my own diagnosis. I certainly hope it wasn't as bad as his may be, Chris. > I no longer understand the role of objectivity in writing and reading. Well, I started reading Wiman's essay and disagreed with it all over the place, and didn't think it well-written or interesting. In fact, I went Evelyn Wood on it. Then I got to the part about his being diagnosed with some blood disease that could be fatal, but could be innocuous. Ugh. But, I didn't suddenly change my mind about what I'd read to that point. Enough. I just felt the need not to put a nay vote to the essay on record. --Bob From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 12:17:27 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:17:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God In-Reply-To: <003c01c7add5$e1a143b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706130746yc327722h6a51a029639ebb09@mail.gmail.com> <003c01c7add5$e1a143b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130917q1c70ad5et586a6d910fcf0247@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Enough. I just felt the need not to put a nay vote to the essay on record. I'm not disputing your vote... the essay and the responses just made me think, again, about the ideas of sentimentality and empathy for readers and writers. I'm always suspicious of writing that is localized in certain ways-- regional writing (what could be worse than being known as an "Alaskan poet?"), personal essays that invoke illness or other catastrophes, that kind of thing. But at the same time, good writing has to be situated in one's landscape, whether physical or mental. What separates a good essay on discovering religion or being diagnosed with a terminal disease from a bad one? And is that set of characteristics different for that kind of writing-- meaning the set of writing that is negatively reviewed as sentimental or positively reviewed as powerful? So it really has little to do with your vote specifically, just the essay itself (and the idea of the personal essay in general). c From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 13 12:42:42 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:42:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: The Writer's Almanac for June 13, 2007 Message-ID: <001d01c7add9$dd1ca920$338d3052@ANNY> William Butler Yeats' Birthday From: The Writer's Almanac Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:24 AM To view a web version of this message, click here VISIT OUR SPONSORS HOW TO LISTEN On the radio Podcast Web archive MAKE A CONTRIBUTION WEDNESDAY, 13 JUNE, 2007 Listen (RealAudio) | How to listen Poems: "A Drinking Song" & "The Lake Isle of Innisfree" by W.B. Yeats. Public Domain. A Drinking Song Wine comes in at the mouth And love comes in at the eye; That's all we shall know for truth Before we grow old and die. I lift the glass to my mouth, I look at you, and I sigh. The Lake Isle of Innisfree I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree, And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made: Nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey-bee; And live alone in the bee-loud glade. And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow, Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings; There midnight's all a glimmer, and noon a purple glow, And evening full of the linnet's wings. I will arise and go now, for always night and day I hear the lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore; While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey, I hear it in the deep heart's core. Literary and Historical Notes: It is the birthday of William Butler Yeats (books by this author), born in Dublin (1865). He grew up at a time when Ireland was an English colony and most members of the Irish Protestant upper class were pro-British. The Catholic middle class was in favor of Irish independence. It didn't help them get along that Catholics were denied equal access to education and jobs and government positions. William Butler Yeats was brought up in a Protestant family, so he should have been pro-British, but he was actually more interested in mysticism. A friend of his took him to his first s?ance in 1886, and during it Yeats's whole body began to shake. He felt himself thrown back against the wall. It was terrifying, but it also confirmed for him the existence of the spirit world. He became interested in the occult. His father wanted him to become a scientist, but Yeats wrote to his father in a letter, "The mystical life is the center of all that I do and all that I think and all that I write." He began wandering around in an old, dark cloak, studying fairytales and mythology and Buddhism, playing the part of a mystic poet. A woman described him as wearing seedy, black clothes with a big, black bow at his throat, muttering verse to himself with a wild eye. It all changed when he met an Irish nationalist named Maud Gonne, who was also the most beautiful woman he had ever seen, and then he became interested in Irish nationalism in order to impress her. He organized rallies for Irish independence and wrote nationalist plays and poetry. Yeats came to believe that if he could just get in touch with the mythic history of the Irish people, he could write about something that would tie the whole country together - Protestants and Catholics. Maud Gonne married somebody else, a soldier who was a hero of the Easter Uprising in 1916. The Irish Free State came about in 1921, and Yeats served as one of the first members of the new Irish senate. It was William Butler Yeats who said, "The intellect of man is forced to choose perfection of the life or of the work, and if he take the second, must refuse a heavenly mansion raging in the dark." Be well, do good work, and keep in touch?. SPONSOR MESSAGES The Poetry Foundation National broadcasts of The Writer's Almanac Are Supported By The Poetry Foundation, Publisher of Poetry Magazine For Over 90 Years. The Writer's Almanac is produced by Prairie Home Productions and presented by American Public Media. -------------------------------------------------------------- You received this free e-mail newsletter because you previously subscribed or because it was sent to you by a friend. Unsubscribe | Contact Us | Forward to a friend ? 2007 American Public Media 480 Cedar Street, Saint Paul, MN USA 55101 -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Wed Jun 13 13:17:41 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:17:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Chris Lott wrote: > On 6/5/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > 'Laundry letters' worth millions > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ > > index.html > > > > LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections > > of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his > > lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a > > Swiss laundry room. > > > > The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years > > by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston > > Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John > > Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. > > So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing > cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of > the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their > private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than > hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy > money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I > will continue to be unable to see it. > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman Wed Jun 13 14:41:29 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:41:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY><9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >> So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing >> cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of >> the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their >> private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than >> hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy >> money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I >> will continue to be unable to see it. >> >> > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of > demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not > exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? > > -- Jim Aside from that, it seems to me that more times than not when I look at the reproduction of a painting or piece of sculpture in a book, its label says it is from someone's collection. Seems to me, most exhibits I read about have a lot of work from private collections, too. Of course, no one should have anything that not everyone else has, but at least these guys loan it out. --Bob From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 13 14:02:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:02:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY><9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com><648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <002501c7ade5$0c741a40$b7ae3452@ANNY> From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:41 PM >>> So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing >>> cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of >>> the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their >>> private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than >>> hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy >>> money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I >>> will continue to be unable to see it. >>> >>> >> >> If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of >> demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not >> exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? >> >> -- Jim > > Aside from that, it seems to me that more times than not when I look at > the reproduction of a painting or piece of sculpture in a book, its label > says it is from someone's collection. Seems to me, most exhibits I read > about have a lot of work from private collections, too. Of course, no one > should have anything that not everyone else has, but at least these guys > loan it out. > > --Bob > , and maybe they also take care of artworks. But I wanted to answer Jim: Only if there are windmills. From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 14:41:22 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:41:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706131141m31e63d0fo4baa202f9f7cfd1d@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > Aside from that, it seems to me that more times than not when I look at the > reproduction of a painting or piece of sculpture in a book, its label says > it is from someone's collection. Seems to me, most exhibits I read about > have a lot of work from private collections, too. Of course, no one should > have anything that not everyone else has, but at least these guys loan it > out. But that's the problem-- just because the exhibits you see have work from private collections doesn't mean any significant part of the work held in private collections are being exhibited. I'm not jousting with the windmills of making all art free, I just find news about art changing hands from one private owner to another to be a strange kind of news for the rest of us. With letters, a form of writing I believe greatly underrated as art and a kind of historical artifact that is already being killed off by technology, it is even stranger. c From screwzbaran Wed Jun 13 15:23:20 2007 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:23:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> I'd like to volunteer for that effort! On 6/13/07, James Cervantes wrote: > > On 6/13/07, Chris Lott wrote: > > On 6/5/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > > 'Laundry letters' worth millions > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ > > > index.html > > > > > > LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections > > > of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his > > > lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a > > > Swiss laundry room. > > > > > > The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years > > > by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston > > > Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John > > > Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. > > > > So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing > > cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of > > the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their > > private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than > > hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy > > money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I > > will continue to be unable to see it. > > > > > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of > demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not > exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "What is defeat in life? It is not merely making a mistake; defeat means giving up on yourself in the midst of difficulty. What is true success in life? True success means winning in your battle with yourself. Those who persist in the pursuit of their dreams, no matter what the hurdles, are winners in life, for they have won over their weaknesses." - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jun 13 16:42:56 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:42:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY><9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com><648208b60706131017 t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com><00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706131141m31e63d0fo4baa202f9f7cfd1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b901c7adfb$97732210$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > But that's the problem-- just because the exhibits you see have work > from private collections doesn't mean any significant part of the work > held in private collections are being exhibited. Oh, I don't know. I'm big on painting, and the art reproduction books have huge amounts of work by painters, and most collectors are pretty free about lending it out. In visual poetry, the American collectors with the best items, Ruth and Marvin Sackner, lend parts of it out all the time, let scholars in to look at anything they want, some of it fairly "valuable," though not up with "real" Painting. And a person off the street with any kind of interest in anything related to visual art would be welcomed in for a tour. The real funny part of all this for me is that probably the best collections of visual art are owned by people like me, with very little money--because we're unknown artists ourselves and exchange our work with other unknown artists, and get gifts, etc., and really have some of the best stuff around--because no one else is interested in the best stuff! Or so we think. But one thing is sure, we get as much pleasure out of our collections as the billionaires get out of theirs. More, I'm certain, because have a deeper understanding of the pieces we have than they have of theirs. --Bob > I'm not jousting with the windmills of making all art free, I just > find news about art changing hands from one private owner to another > to be a strange kind of news for the rest of us. With letters, a form > of writing I believe greatly underrated as art and a kind of > historical artifact that is already being killed off by technology, it > is even stranger. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 14 01:27:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:27:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] POetry Message-ID: <002901c7ae44$a65361c0$963e014f@ANNY> Eating Poetry Ink runs from the corners of my mouth. There is no happiness like mine. I have been eating poetry. The librarian does not believe what she sees. Her eyes are sad and she walks with her hands in her dress. The poems are gone. The light is dim. The dogs are on the basement stairs and coming up. Their eyeballs roll, their blond legs burn like brush. The poor librarian begins to stamp her feet and weep. She does not understand. When I get on my knees and lick her hand, she screams. I am a new man. I snarl at her and bark. I romp with joy in the bookish dark. Mark Strand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 14 01:30:54 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:30:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] an another one by Mark Strand Message-ID: <003901c7ae45$2df90760$963e014f@ANNY> The New Poetry Handbook 1 If a man understands a poem, he shall have troubles. 2 If a man lives with a poem, he shall die lonely. 3 If a man lives with two poems, he shall be unfaithful to one. 4 If a man conceives of a poem, he shall have one less child. 5 If a man conceives of two poems, he shall have two children less. 6 If a man wears a crown on his head as he writes, he shall be found out. 7 If a man wears no crown on his head as he writes, he shall deceive no one but himself. 8 If a man gets angry at a poem, he shall be scorned by men. 9 If a man continues to be angry at a poem, he shall be scorned by women. 10 If a man publicly denounces poetry, his shoes will fill with urine. 11 If a man gives up poetry for power, he shall have lots of power. 12 If a man brags about his poems, he shall be loved by fools. 13 If a man brags about his poems and loves fools, he shall write no more. 14 If a man craves attention because of his poems, he shall be like a jackass in moonlight. 15 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow, he shall have a beautiful mistress. 16 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow overly, he shall drive his mistress away. 17 If a man claims the poem of another, his heart shall double in size. 18 If a man lets his poems go naked, he shall fear death. 19 If a man fears death, he shall be saved by his poems. 20 If a man does not fear death, he may or may not be saved by his poems. 21 If a man finishes a poem, he shall bathe in the blank wake of his passion and be kissed by white paper. Mark Strand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Jun 14 11:14:16 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Special Guest-Edited Issue In-Reply-To: <003901c7ae45$2df90760$963e014f@ANNY> Message-ID: <783093.86003.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents [http://www.mipoesias.com/] Guest Editor ? David Trinidad Hanna Andrews Leanne Averbach Dodie Bellamy Charles Bernstein Graeme Bezanson Kristy Bowen Margaret Brady Suzanne Buffam Connie Deanovich C.H. Eding Jim Elledge Edward Field Lisa Fishman Michael Friedman Brad Gooch Chet Gresham Chris Green Bruce Hainley Ian Harris Jana Harris Natalie Hill Brandi Homan Cora Jacobs Charles Jensen Richard Johns Amanda Johnson A. Van Jordan Vincent Katz erica kaufman Nathan Kernan Becca Klaver Brian Kloppenberg Rodney Koeneke Ron Koertge Michael Lally Joan Larkin Dorianne Laux Kimberly Lyons Michael Magee Gillian McCain Sharon Mesmer Elinor Nauen Jo McDougall Richard Meier Michael Montlack Maggie Nelson Linda Oh Daniela Olszewska Maureen Owen Ronald Palmer Ethel Rackin Donald Revell Maxine Scates Jason Schneiderman Lloyd Schwartz Greg Shapiro James Shea Aaron Smith Joan Jobe Smith Joris Soeding BJ Soloy Marti Stephen Mike Topp Andy Trebing Tony Trigilio Jennifer Watman Baron Wormser MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 14 17:55:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:55:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: The Poets' Corner Message-ID: <001001c7aece$ca6c2710$b0ab3252@ANNY> >From James Lord in recounting his experience of posing for Alberto Giacometti, quotation taken from "The Courage to Create" by Rollo May: One day his foot accidentally struck the catch that holds the easel shelf at the proper level, which caused the canvas to fall abruptly for a foot or two. "Oh, excuse me!" he said. I laughed and observed that he'd excused himself as though he'd caused me to fall instead of the painting. "That's exactly what I did feel," he answered. Camille Martin http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=240 Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=241 Snezana Dzakovic http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=242 Mary Kaiser http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=243 Jeff Newberry http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=244 Jenny Boully http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=245 Christian B?k http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=247 Aldo Tambellini http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=248 Rochelle Ratner http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=249 Clarinda Harriss http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=250 Joseph Duemer http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=251 New poems by already featured Poets: Frank Parker: Tucson Blues http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=34 Kenneth Wolman: WOLMA, POLAND http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1929 Kenneth Wolman: The Prison Notebooks http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1943 Halvard Johnson: Tango Bouquet and other poems http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1942 and as a .doc file: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1956 Victor Sosa: Gorri?n (Chorus master) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1944 Tad Richards: SITUATIONS - Foreword: The Epic Newsletter Story http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 Tad Richards: situations - first installment http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 Barry Alpert: FIVE via JEAN-LUC GODARD http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1957 Barry Alpert: VOICE OVER (JONAS MEKAS) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1958 Under Poets on Poets: Euripides by Jon Corelis and ongoing work with new additions http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=66 Roberto Castillo Udiarte introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=71 Trinh Cong Son introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=72 Poems from the Ho Xuan Huong tradition introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=73 Untitled by Anya Logvinova translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1922 Untitled (Night, avenue.) by Aleksander Blok translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1923 Appearance follows the order by which I received the poems. With my acknowledgment to all and my best wishes for a great summer, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jun 14 20:16:10 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:16:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> > > So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing > cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of > the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their > private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than > hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy > money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I > will continue to be unable to see it. > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not exist.??Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? I think I missed something in this discussion. Isn't there a tremendous amount of art in public collections all over the world. I've been going to public museums for years and I can't say I've seen a fraction of what is out there...you can stand 3 feet away from it and stare as long as you want, I swear. And the admission price is usually about the same as some new Hollywood movie released last week and forgotten in another week. The work in private hands often works way into museum collections. The beauty of those letters, if they were unknown before being auctioned, is that they'll prompt new biographies about their subjects. ?Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Fri Jun 15 03:14:48 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:14:48 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706150014n49593f49odd9e1ad19199f161@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I think I missed something in this discussion. Isn't there a tremendous amount of art in public collections all over the world. I've been going to public museums for years and I can't say I've seen a fraction of what is out there...you can stand 3 feet away from it and stare as long as you want, I swear. And the admission price is usually about the same as some new Hollywood movie released last week and forgotten in another week. The work in private hands often works way into museum collections. > > The beauty of those letters, if they were unknown before being auctioned, is that they'll prompt new biographies about their subjects. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of art in museums... I'm simply noting that a bunch of letters we didn't know were kept by one rich guy about being auctioned off to some other rich patron for his or her private collection is a strange kind of news. Work in private hands often makes it into collections that are public. And often it doesn't. Doesn't it seem a little strange to make a big deal over a "treasure trove" of unknown letters that have a good chance of continuing to be hidden? The interesting news would be the letters being made public and available... but if that happens I bet it gets nowhere near the interest as it does while it remains a commodity of the fiscal aristocracy, the possessions of which we generally can't make use of but that our media seems fascinated by nonetheless. c From grahamd Fri Jun 15 10:12:08 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:12:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aluminum snore Message-ID: <882DECD7-49B9-4F2C-9756-74EDB2FADFC7@ripon.edu> Easily the most entertaining book on my recent arrivals shelf is Dean Young's new one. Here's his take on Kenneth Koch, who like Young himself was never an aluminum snore. . . . Anyone know what happened with DY and UPittsburgh? I wonder why the switch of presses for this new volume. Complete Poems Here's the work of Kenneth Koch. Even the somewhat melancholy poems are happy. He must have been absolutely nuts. No, he wasn't. Nor was he an aluminum snore like Robert Lowell. Gladiolas arrived at the door. Yip yip, said the puppy and Yuff yuff the puppy grown up. About 12 hours hardly total I spent with him before he died, Daddy I almost cry, Oh get over it, he said the first time coming down the hall, he was tall and covered envelopes entirely with the address. There was no fractioning Kenneth Koch, no parts, you always got it all, Terra del Fuego got it all, off-off-off Broadway, the cab driver from the Ivory Coast, hurry, the museum's about to close and must be hustled through, whizzing past the urinal, dizzy with dots, oh great splash the size of a dump truck, I can barely talk when I'm interviewing, what's he saying now that the tape's off about his mother in a white nightgown and Wallace Stevens? Impossible to imagine his eating a tofu burger or waiting very long in a car. He had a letter from Jean Tinguely on his wall that Tinguelyesque apart t'would fall. Even with everything there is a point at which there is no more. --Dean Young. Embryoyo. Believer Books, 2007. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atambellini01 Fri Jun 15 11:36:28 2007 From: atambellini01 (atambellini01 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:36:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: The Poets' Corner In-Reply-To: <001001c7aece$ca6c2710$b0ab3252@ANNY> References: <001001c7aece$ca6c2710$b0ab3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C97D7A13395DBC-D60-370F@WEBMAIL-RE11.sysops.aol.com> thank you I WILL SEND SOME POETRY SOON AND SOME OF THE VIDEO WORK CIAO ALDO -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:55 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: The Poets' Corner ? ? >From James Lord in recounting his experience of posing for Alberto Giacometti, quotation taken from ?The Courage to Create? by Rollo May: ? One day his foot accidentally struck the catch that holds the easel shelf at the proper level, which caused the canvas to fall abruptly for a foot or two. ? ?Oh, excuse me!? he said. I laughed and observed that he?d excused himself as though he?d caused me to fall instead of the painting. ?That?s exactly what I did feel,? he answered. ? ? ? ? Camille Martin http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=240 ? Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=241 ? Snezana Dzakovic http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=242 ? Mary Kaiser http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=243 ? Jeff Newberry http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=244 ? Jenny Boully http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=245 ? Christian B?k http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=247 ? Aldo Tambellini http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=248 ? Rochelle Ratner http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=249 ? Clarinda Harriss http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=250 ? Joseph Duemer http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=251 ? ? ? New poems by already featured Poets: ? Frank Parker: Tucson Blues http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=34 ? Kenneth Wolman: WOLMA, POLAND http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1929 ? Kenneth Wolman: The Prison Notebooks http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1943 ? Halvard Johnson: Tango Bouquet and other poems http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1942 and as a .doc file: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1956 ? Victor Sosa: Gorri?n (Chorus master) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1944 ? Tad Richards: SITUATIONS ? Foreword: The Epic Newsletter Story http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 Tad Richards: situations ? first installment http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 ? Barry Alpert: FIVE via JEAN-LUC GODARD http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1957 ? Barry Alpert: VOICE OVER (JONAS MEKAS) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1958 ? ? ? Under Poets on Poets: ? Euripides by Jon Corelis and ongoing work with new additions http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=66 ? Roberto Castillo Udiarte introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=71 ? Trinh Cong Son introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=72 ? Poems from the Ho Xuan Huong tradition introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=73 ? Untitled by Anya Logvinova translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1922 ? Untitled (Night, avenue?) by Aleksander Blok translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1923 ? ? Appearance follows the order by which I received the poems. With my acknowledgment to all and my best wishes for a great summer, ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jun 15 12:12:31 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:12:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 15 13:04:26 2007 From: anny.ballardini (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:04:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: That Unruly, Serendipitous Show in Venice Message-ID: <200706151704.l5FH4Qir024828@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it. ARTS / ART & DESIGN | June 15, 2007 Art Review | Venice Biennale: That Unruly, Serendipitous Show in Venice By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN Much of this biennale murmurs, it doesn't shout. I doubt this fair will be recalled as groundbreaking or dynamic, but it is an independent show, strong in its convictions. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/arts/design/15veni.html?ex=1182571200&en=0578c176b3d9eff8&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 15 15:23:01 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:23:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new interpretation. What does this mean to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Fri Jun 15 15:37:08 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:37:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: It means it's one of them pregnant quotations-- never sitting still, never settling for one meaning. Hal "Things are more like they are now than they ever were." --Dwight David Eisenhower Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jun 15, 2007, at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new > interpretation. What does this mean to you? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Skip Fox > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: > > ?The advantage of having at one?s borders a hereditary enemy is > immense.? > > --Michael Serres > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jun 15 16:15:16 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:15:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <000501c7af89$e95683d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> A lilting Hobbesian recognition that, as Franklin suggested, "Necessity's a mother." Seriously, I remembered the quote as "The advantage of having a sworn enemy on one's border is incalculable," which I like better than the original except for "hereditary" and, maybe, "on." I liked it so much in memory I wanted to post so I looked it up. Michael Serres's prose is often so provocative that it seems to mean many things on reconsideration. I recommend his entire book _Genesis_ (U of Michigan P). In a way it _is_ Hobbesian, but the lilt seems to be in the fact of how its realization is taken, not in despair, but as a definite human provocation. (The quote, itself, is without tooth or fang, instead focusing on the beneficial quality of the effect. Seems very mental, not abrasive in torque.) Anyway . . . -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new interpretation. What does this mean to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres _____ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Fri Jun 15 16:18:09 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:18:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <001a01c7af8a$4b2b8740$0201a8c0@LindaSue> If he is speaking of totalitarian regimes, it means that having an enemy closeby makes it easier for dictators to keep their citizens under control by constantly playing on those citizens' fears that that enemy is always ready to attack. Examples are North Korea, Cuba, and Iran, whose totalitarian leaders try to keep their citizens believing that U.S. and Israel may attack them at any time without a reason. At the present time, the "hereditary enemy on the border" speaks more relevantly for communist North Korea, with a democratic South Korea on its border, and communist Cuba, with a democratic U.S. a mere 90 miles away. But if Iraq ever becomes a truly functioning democracy, then Iran will have its nemesis "on the border"; that is why Iran is trying so hard to keep that from happening. Iranian leaders are using that advantage already while trying to scuttle the ship of democracy next door. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new interpretation. What does this mean to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Jun 15 16:34:14 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:34:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60706151334w5a3bd8e0i93e73cfce353add8@mail.gmail.com> "hereditary enemy" = an enemy you know well. Bush shoulda picked on the Brits. - Jim On 6/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new > interpretation. What does this mean to you? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Skip Fox > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: > > > > > > "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." > > --Michael Serres > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames Sat Jun 16 11:07:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:07:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Hamburger obit Message-ID: _http://books.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2099883,00.html_ (http://books.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2099883,00.html) Michael Hamburger Poet, translator and academic, more acclaimed in Germany than in Britain Jonathan Fryer Monday June 11, 2007 The Guardian The poet, translator, critic and amateur horticulturalist, Michael Hamburger, who has died aged 83, was a serious voice in an increasingly superficial age. He was out of tune with what a younger generation of poets were writing, and railed against the shallowness and commercialisation of the modern world, from his fastness: a farmhouse surrounded by orchards in Middleton, Suffolk. None the less, his work received much critical acclaim. He was revered at the various academic institutions at which he taught, though it rankled that he was better known to the wider British public as a translator, rather than as a poet. Perhaps the greatest irony of his life was that towards the end, his poetic standing was higher in Germany than in England, his English-language originals translated into German by the much younger Austrian poet of British parentage, Peter Waterhouse. Like Waterhouse, Hamburger was born in Berlin, the son of a distinguished German-Jewish professor of paediatrics, Richard Hamburger. The Hamburger household was both cultured and disciplined, qualities which Michael to a large extent inherited. He was startled to be rounded on in his early adulthood by the proletarian poet Jesse Tor, who denounced him as "irredeemably bourgeois". ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 16 18:05:45 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:05:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Jun 16 17:11:09 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:11:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 16 18:11:54 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:11:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? He didn't say simply put together. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jun 16 19:54:07 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:54:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <004d01c7b071$a279c1f0$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 16 19:30:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 19:30:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:53:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Sun Jun 17 05:32:49 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 04:32:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Jun 17 07:14:03 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:14:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <003101c7b0d0$a4111ea0$94fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan I certainly don't think poetry is superior to film-making but there seems to me a clear difference between (creatively) selecting images which one uses to make one's artwork, and (creatively)selecting images and (creatively) translating them into words which one then uses to make one's artwork. A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Jun 17 07:56:20 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:56:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fair point. But my problem with the definition is that it is so simple that it doesn't function. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to distinguish poetry from Op-eds or sociology textbooks in any useful way. Lots of language provokes ideas or emotions. Poetry swings them. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:11 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: >> Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that >> creates ideas and emotions. > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > He didn't say simply put together. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 17 11:40:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:40:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <007e01c7b0f5$d87d12a0$8bad3252@ANNY> I think I'll have to agree with James. If you look at art, masterpieces were painted by pupils and then the Master took the brush and gave his strokes. It is nothing but the genial intuition that only few have (thanks to experience, practice, and something that can be defined: talent). As Hitchcock said, just pieces of shots put together, but the way you do it makes the difference and the differance! From: David Graham Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:56 PM Fair point. But my problem with the definition is that it is so simple that it doesn't function. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to distinguish poetry from Op-eds or sociology textbooks in any useful way. Lots of language provokes ideas or emotions. Poetry swings them. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:11 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? He didn't say simply put together. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 17 12:22:14 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:22:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: David, I won't go out too far on a limb to defend that defintion. Definitions of poetry, as we've discussed over the years on this list, are difficult to compose in any way that does justice to what the word 'poetry' encompasses Sometimes the 'simple' defintion works best. The more we try to elaborate on what makes poetry tick, the less life the defintion seems to have...like trying to describe time by a doing techinical drawing of the inner workings of a clock. The essence gets lost. I think Hitchcock was being a bit flip...but he was also trying to demystify the process a bit. In the manner of that famous exchange between Mallarme and Degas, where Degas is supposed to have remarked something to the effect of, "I have many ideas for poems but I can never seem to make one." And Mallarme responds, "But, Mssr. Degas, poems are not made of ideas, poems are made of words." Hitchcock's definition of cinema being along those lines. Of course Degas should have retorted, "Ah, yes, just as my paintings are made of only paint. Thank you for reminding me of that fact." 'Solved by substitution of terms' is a collection of quotes I have complied by philosophers and various artists and whereby, with a few exchanges of terms, I convert their quotes into something related to the art of poetry. Finnegan In a message dated 6/17/2007 8:55:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Fair point. But my problem with the definition is that it is so simple that it doesn't function. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to distinguish poetry from Op-eds or sociology textbooks in any useful way. Lots of language provokes ideas or emotions. Poetry swings them. ======================================== David Graham _grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) Home Page: _http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html_ (http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html) Poetry Library: _http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html_ (http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html) ========================================== On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:11 PM, _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) wrote: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) writes: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 17 13:16:19 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:16:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 6/17/2007 6:12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan I certainly don't think poetry is superior to film-making but there seems to me a clear difference between (creatively) selecting images which one uses to make one's artwork, and (creatively)selecting images and (creatively) translating them into words which one then uses to make one's artwork. A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images. --Bob G. And words and musical score are important parts of the filmmaker's toolkit as well. The 'translation issue' of words to 'mind's eye' (or mind's ear, nose, and sense of touch, for that matter) is both a problem and a strength for poetry over other visual mediums that can employ explicit imagery. The cinematographer shows us a specific apple on a limb, one of a particular color and lit in a certain way. The poet might say "A dapple of light on an apple in late afternoon". The poet can't show the reader explicitly what is to be seen. (The poet is apt to compensate for that lack of an ability to render as 'well-seen' or to augment her/his image with sound effects, as I've done so obviously with dapple-apple pair.) Neither filmmaker nor poet can control what will be 'made of' the image once it enters the mind, what associations will be evoked, etc. Yet the reader is freer to 'see' the apple as s/he might envision it. ('Choice' may not have as much to do with that seeing as predisposition due to experience.) Whereas the film viewer must take in what is being shown, must 'sit still for what is being shown', one might say. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Jun 17 14:51:44 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:51:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the word poem poesis or "making?" I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. Jeff Newberry On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more > accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates > ideas and emotions. > > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Jun 17 16:22:15 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:22:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another e-book from Vida Loca Books Message-ID: <648208b60706171322q4e720ef7x5b391a2782745b50@mail.gmail.com> Happy to announce the publication of "from Mr. Bondo's Unshared Life" by Vida Loca Books. It's an e-book available as a pdf download and if it's not appearing as an attachment here, just e-mail me and I will send it on. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mr. Bondo.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 250062 bytes Desc: not available URL: From halvard Sun Jun 17 17:02:16 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:02:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vida Loca Books Message-ID: <56C28037-F597-4D21-B3A9-250198725761@earthlink.net> For information on Vida Loca Books, please click below-- http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/Vida%20Loca%20Books.html Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Sun Jun 17 17:12:28 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: <200706171933.l5HJX7is014920@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 17 18:01:57 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:01:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] impotence of proofreading Message-ID: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjhOBiSk8Gg_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjhOBiSk8Gg) I ran across a link to this video yesterday on someone's blog. It's funny...esp. for those who teach young students. But the clip shows how the slam format, of which Taylor Mali is a master, can get in the way. The slam performance is usually limited, in competition, to 3 minutes. Thus, slam poets think they must fill the full three minutes or they've left something on the table...of course, as is the case in this piece, if you don't have enough say, you keep saying it, and saying it again in different ways, till your alotted time is up, leaving much room for that 'red penis' to have worked its magic, had you not crafted the piece for the slam format. You can tell by Billy Collins' expression, that he gets it, he got it, he really got the joke of the piece/poem, and now is waiting for it to end. Being a master of the typo...I really shouldn't speech. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists Sun Jun 17 20:45:24 2007 From: lists (Thomas Murphy) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:45:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thinning the Shelves Message-ID: <515f75670706171745s6c938c18qbb342da83336ce7b@mail.gmail.com> Hello New-Poetry. I've been a reader-lurker here for the past few years ... and have received much from you all. So here's my chance to give back a little. I'm presently thinning out my bookshelves and am offering the chosen titles to any willing receiver. Right now I've got a smattering of poetry, a bunch of film-related books, and some odds & ends. The list will grow as the summer progresses. Free for the asking (help with postage appreciated). Just follow the process I indicate on my blog. You'll find that process and the list of books at http://brtom.typepad.com/two/books_for_you.html Thanks, Tom Murphy http://brtom.typepad.com/two/ http://brtom.typepad.com/ From bobgrumman Sun Jun 17 21:50:43 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:50:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011201c7b14b$1826d490$94fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. --David Baratier That would depend on one's definition of "image." --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 05:14:21 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:14:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <003101c7b0d0$a4111ea0$94fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007701c7b189$0ea48f50$eca93452@ANNY> Let me add Bob that behind it all there is the creative mind. It is true that the director chooses images, but s/he is the one that decides what to shoot first, and out of a myriad of shots finally selects several frames that best suit his/her original idea. Instead of dealing with the visual the poet deals with words, which in the very end could also have a visual quality if we treasure Pythagoras words: Each number had its own personality - masculine or feminine, perfect or incomplete, beautiful or ugly. This feeling modern mathematics has deliberately eliminated, but we still find overtones of it in fiction and poetry. Ten was the very best number: it contained in itself the first four integers - one, two, three, and four [1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10] - and these written in dot notation formed a perfect triangle. interesting within this context is Dan Waber's site that features the interpretation of the letters of the alphabet by different Authors: http://www.logolalia.com/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ there is a certain school in Poetry that tries to eliminate the visual for the speculative or a particular stylistic form, I reach the speculative through the visual, at least this is the way I can work and what I most appreciate in poetry. From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:14 PM Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan I certainly don't think poetry is superior to film-making but there seems to me a clear difference between (creatively) selecting images which one uses to make one's artwork, and (creatively)selecting images and (creatively) translating them into words which one then uses to make one's artwork. A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images. --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 08:13:29 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:13:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) that we only experience three things: images, concepts and emotions. Images are what we perceive sensually. Concepts are abstract understandings of them (and may include images). Emotions are simply the pain or pleasure they cause one to feel. Can anyone think of anything else? --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baratier To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 07:15:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:15:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00e801c7b199$f3899060$eca93452@ANNY> Do not know if I agree with your distinction of images and emotions : I see emotions as being more sensual than images and yes, you can have an emotional image ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: editor at pavementsaw.org ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) that we only experience three things: images, concepts and emotions. Images are what we perceive sensually. Concepts are abstract understandings of them (and may include images). Emotions are simply the pain or pleasure they cause one to feel. Can anyone think of anything else? --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baratier To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Mon Jun 18 08:33:31 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:33:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, except the experience of experiencing the language. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the word poem poesis or "making?" I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. Jeff Newberry On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cheekc Mon Jun 18 08:49:33 2007 From: cheekc (cheekc) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:49:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <2820372E-0818-41B7-9FB6-8FAEEB0CE8A3@muohio.edu> Hi Bob, i'm reposting this wiki stuff on the term image. My concern is that broadly the use and foregrounding of such a term as Image lumps that which can be perceived by our senses way too much into the retinal and concepts related thereof. sound, for example does begin to enter lower down on this def list but . . . . In common usage, an image (from Latin imago) or picture is an artifact that reproduces the likeness of some subject?usually a physical object or a person. Images may be two dimensional, such as a photograph, or three dimensional such as in a statue. They are typically produced by optical devices?such as a cameras, mirrors, lenses, telescopes, microscopes, etc. and natural objects and phenomena, such as the human eye or water surfaces. The word image is also used in the broader sense of any two- dimensional figure such as a map, a graph, a pie chart, or an abstract painting. In this wider sense, images can also be produced manually, such as by drawing, painting, carving, by computer graphics technology, or a combination of the two, especially in a pseudo- photograph. A volatile image is one that exists only for a short period of time. This may be a reflection of an object by a mirror, a projection of a camera obscura, or a scene displayed on a cathode ray tube. A fixed image, also called a hardcopy, is one that has been recorded on a material object, such as paper or textile. A mental image exists in an individual's mind: something one remembers or imagines. The subject of an image need not be real; it may be an abstract concept, such as a graph, function, or "imaginary" entity. For example, Sigmund Freud claimed to have dreamt purely in aural-images of dialogues. The development of synthetic acoustic technologies and the creation of sound art have led to a consideration of the possibilities of a sound-image comprised of irreducible phonic substance beyond linguistic or musicological analysis. love and love cris On Jun 18, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) > that we only experience three things: images, concepts and > emotions. Images are what we perceive sensually. Concepts are > abstract understandings of them (and may include images). Emotions > are simply the pain or pleasure they cause one to feel. Can anyone > think of anything else? > > --Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Baratier > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 > > In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. > Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. > The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps > become the interest that replaces the images but they are not > images themselves. > > "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts > with images > that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with > words that he > uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. > > > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > PO Box 6291 > Columbus, OH 43206 > http://pavementsaw.org > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jun 18 10:05:27 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:05:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: Agreed. Experience is a bad teacher and ought to be fired. So is language. Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jun 18, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through > language, except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root > of the word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory > of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience > different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, > something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but > more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that >> creates ideas and emotions. > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 11:18:18 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:18:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <2820372E-0818-41B7-9FB6-8FAEEB0CE8A3@muohio.edu> Message-ID: <004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Hi Bob, i'm reposting this wiki stuff on the term image. My concern is that broadly the use and foregrounding of such a term as Image lumps that which can be perceived by our senses way too much into the retinal and concepts related thereof. sound, for example does begin to enter lower down on this def list but . . . . In common usage, an image (from Latin imago) or picture is an artifact that reproduces the likeness of some subject?usually a physical object or a person. Images may be two dimensional, such as a photograph, or three dimensional such as in a statue. They are typically produced by optical devices?such as a cameras, mirrors, lenses, telescopes, microscopes, etc. and natural objects and phenomena, such as the human eye or water surfaces. The word image is also used in the broader sense of any two-dimensional figure such as a map, a graph, a pie chart, or an abstract painting. In this wider sense, images can also be produced manually, such as by drawing, painting, carving, by computer graphics technology, or a combination of the two, especially in a pseudo-photograph. A volatile image is one that exists only for a short period of time. This may be a reflection of an object by a mirror, a projection of a camera obscura, or a scene displayed on a cathode ray tube. A fixed image, also called a hardcopy, is one that has been recorded on a material object, such as paper or textile. A mental image exists in an individual's mind: something one remembers or imagines. The subject of an image need not be real; it may be an abstract concept, such as a graph, function, or "imaginary" entity. For example, Sigmund Freud claimed to have dreamt purely in aural-images of dialogues. The development of synthetic acoustic technologies and the creation of sound art have led to a consideration of the possibilities of a sound-image comprised of irreducible phonic substance beyond linguistic or musicological analysis. love and love cris Sure seems as though you and I are on one side of what an image is, and Wikipedia is on the other, Cris. I wouldn't say Wikipoo, as I call it, is always wrong, but always limited, and often wrong. But maybe there's some term out there I'm unfamiliar with or for some obscure reason am blocked from that would cover a musical chord, for instance, or a smell, or all the other kinds of things not just visual that I would call images. And maybe there's some general term that would cover visual image and all these other things. In any case, thanks for the reply! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 18 10:28:35 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706180728g313be70cx399602c6e3064ff1@mail.gmail.com> I heard that Experience was suspended for three weeks with no pay after some sort of incident with a freshman girl. Language was fired from a full-time position several years ago because it was so unreliable. These days, however, Language occasionally adjuncts. Jeff On 6/18/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Agreed. Experience is a bad teacher and ought to be fired.So is language. > Hal > > "Everything should be made as simple as possible, > but not simpler." > --Albert Einstein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Jun 18, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, > except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the > word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of > poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from > what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more > > accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* David Graham > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > > creates ideas and emotions. > > > > ===================== > > > > Simply, huh? > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 18 10:29:34 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:29:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's prose. Jeff Newberry On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, > except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the > word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of > poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from > what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more > > accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* David Graham > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > > creates ideas and emotions. > > > > ===================== > > > > Simply, huh? > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Mon Jun 18 10:43:34 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:43:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's prose. Jeff Newberry On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, except the experience of experiencing the language. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the word poem poesis or "making?" I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. Jeff Newberry On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 18 11:08:35 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:08:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706180808i514d4837kda34207555e7a102@mail.gmail.com> Well, that's an interesting proposition; and though I feel that you're merely trying to bait me into a fight, I'll bite. What I hear you saying: poetry is a one-to-one project. A poet feels lonely when he sees a paper cup blowing down a gravel road. Said poet writes poem about experience. Reader reads poem, feels same emotion. For me, poetry just isn't that simple. It's much, much more complex. For the love of Pete, language isn't that simple, either. I'm not sure how the issue can't be tangled. I mean, we've been discussing the same thing since, what, Aristotle's Poetics? Before you make giant, sweeping generalizations about one the most important poets of the 20th century, I'd read a bit of what he has to say. No one else has joined in the discussion, but I'm pretty certain that I'm selling Crane's theory of poetry short. Jeff Newberry On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render > experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry creates > experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's prose. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, > > except the experience of experiencing the language. > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jeff Newberry > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > > *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of > > the word poem poesis or "making?" > > > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of > > poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from > > what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > > > > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but > > > more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > > > > > lsg > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > *From:* David Graham > > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > > > creates ideas and emotions. > > > > > > ===================== > > > > > > Simply, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > > David Graham > > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > > > Home Page: > > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > > > Poetry Library: > > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jun 18 11:14:21 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:14:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <8A8A90A8-11F3-4A0A-AA92-534B8D390EC6@earthlink.net> Well, that clears that up. Hal "Then there are a number of things one googles or does not google." after Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jun 18, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render > experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry > creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's > prose. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through > language, except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root > of the word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory > of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience > different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, > something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but > more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that >> creates ideas and emotions. > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Jun 18 11:18:44 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:18:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Breadth & Twist of the Referent In-Reply-To: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <7C9AE432-FCC2-4A1E-9948-3702262F1C58@ripon.edu> Relevant article here, from American Poetry Review: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3692/is_199507/ai_n8728185/pg_1 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 18, 2007, at 10:43 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render > experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry > creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. > > lsg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Jun 18 11:44:49 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:44:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On realism In-Reply-To: <7C9AE432-FCC2-4A1E-9948-3702262F1C58@ripon.edu> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7C9AE432-FCC2-4A1E-9948-3702262F1C58@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <50CC3628-2AC2-4B02-8891-719064D6C4C8@ripon.edu> Coupla poems with the same title, from very different slants, that are relevant to pondering poetry, imagery, & experience. I wonder if Milosz & Clark ever had much to do with each other out there in Berkeley. . . . Realism The smashed weirdness of the raving cadenzas of God Takes over all of a sudden In our time. It speaks through the voices of talk show moderators. It tells us in a ringing anthem, like heavenly hosts uplifted, That the rhapsody of the pastoral is out to lunch. We can take it from there. We can take it to Easy Street. But when things get tough on Easy Street What then? Is it time for realism? And who are these guys on the bus Who glide in golden hats past us On their way to Kansas City? --Tom Clark. Light and Shade: New and Selected Poems. Coffee House Press, 2006. =========== Realism We are not so badly off, if we can Admire Dutch painting. For that means We shrug off what we have been told For a hundred, two hundred years. Though we lost Much of our previous confidence. Now we agree That those trees outside the window, which probably exist, Only pretend to greenness and treeness And that the language loses when it tries to cope With clusters of molecules. And yet, this here: A jar, a tin plate, a half-peeled lemon, Walnuts, a loaf of bread, last--and so strongly It is hard not to believe in their lastingness. And thus abstract art is brought to shame, Even if we do not deserve any other. Therefore I enter those landscapes Under a cloudy sky from which a ray Shoots out, and in the middle of dark plains A spot of brightness glows. Or the shore With huts, boats, and on yellowish ice Tiny figures skating. All this Is here eternally, just because once it was. Splendor (certainly incomprehensible) Touches a cracked wall, a refuse heap, The floor of an inn, jerkins of the rustics, A broom, and two fish bleeding on a board. Rejoice! Give thanks! I raised my voice To join them in their choral singing, Amid their ruffles, collets, and silk skirts, One of them already, who vanished long ago. And our song soared up like smoke from a censer. --Czeslaw Milosz. Facing the River. Trans. Milosz and Robert Hass. Manchester: Carcanet, 1995: 30. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 18, 2007, at 11:18 AM, David Graham wrote: > Relevant article here, from American Poetry Review: > > http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3692/is_199507/ai_n8728185/ > pg_1 > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 18, 2007, at 10:43 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > >> I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render >> experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry >> creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. >> >> lsg > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jun 18 12:43:20 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:43:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Breadth & Twist of the Referent In-Reply-To: <7C9AE432-FCC2-4A1E-9948-3702262F1C58@ripon.edu> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7C9AE432-FCC2-4A1E-9948-3702262F1C58@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <0788205B-F208-47D6-BE85-401CA4553A16@earthlink.net> The bread and twizzler of the referee From suelin7184 Mon Jun 18 12:51:44 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:51:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Breadth & Twist of the Referent References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com><002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <7C9AE432-FCC2-4A1E-9948-3702262F1C58@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <003c01c7b1c8$f4241750$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Fascinating. I especially enjoyed the Derrida quotation: Even if they do so unequally and differently, poetry and literatue have as a eommon feature that they suspend the "thetic" naivety of the transcendent reading. Thie aleo accounte far the philoeophical force of theee eperiences, a force of provocation to think phenomenality, meaning, object, even beine ae eueh, a force which is at leaat potenal, a philosophical crIynamie-which can, however, be developed only in reeponee, in the experience of readine, becauee it is not hidden in the tt like a substaMle. Before havine a philoeopbical content, before beins or bearing such and such a "thesis," literary eperience, writing, or reading, ie a "philosophical" experienee which ie neutralized or neutralizing insoar as it allows one to think of the theeis it is a nonthetic expenience of the thesis, of belief, of position, of naivety...[perhapsl Husserl's..."transcendental reduction."(13) lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Breadth & Twist of the Referent Relevant article here, from American Poetry Review: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3692/is_199507/ai_n8728185/pg_1 ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 18, 2007, at 10:43 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. lsg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 13:11:41 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:11:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Literatur Werkstatt Berlin Message-ID: <02ae01c7b1cb$bda7b2b0$f3ab3252@ANNY> poesiefestival berlin 2007 http://www.literaturwerkstatt.org:80/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Jun 18 14:26:40 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <200706181419.l5IEJAis002092@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <905835.73297.qm@web83806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> cris, Bob-- my point too, the definition of image differs in the mainstream but also (more importantly?) between poets depending how widely they have experienced poems. And the area of sound is not covered. Hearing a recording of Schwitters that Pierre Joris played sometime ago ( I am thinking it was UR sonatta) changed my notion not only of what comprises a poem but also what images are and how they flash to mind. Especially considering that what occurs for a non-German speaking listener as the parts of speech were entirely different and I would guess that the glimpses that came to me from the recording were in no way related to the original intent for a hearer fluent in the language. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Mon Jun 18 15:40:13 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:40:13 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706181240q2d256502y9247346b7ada6e1a@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) that we > only experience three things: images, concepts and emotions. Images are > what we perceive sensually. Concepts are abstract understandings of them > (and may include images). Emotions are simply the pain or pleasure they > cause one to feel. Can anyone think of anything else? What is a musical note then? Or any other "abstract" sound? It might provoke an image, but isn't necessarily itself one. It can be contained in a concept and trigger an emotion, but seems to be neither. What about a bad odor? c From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 17:19:23 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:19:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706181240q2d256502y9247346b7ada6e1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > What is a musical note then? Or any other "abstract" sound? It might > provoke an image, but isn't necessarily itself one. It can be > contained in a concept and trigger an emotion, but seems to be > neither. I define the musical note as an auditory image. Is there another term for it? > What about a bad odor? Olfactory image. But I'm pretty sure others would not use image in this way. But what would they use? On the other hand, I think many people might consider the odor of a rose part of their image of a rose. I'm thinking of image as perceptual complex, but maybe that would be the term to use, with "image" indicating a subcategory of perceptual complex, the visual perceptual complex. It is some kind of perceptual complex that I believe the words of a poem create along with ideas and emotions. --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Mon Jun 18 16:32:42 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:32:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Auditory, olfactory, etc. are used commonly with the word "imagery," and imagery is taught that way in many texts. Thus, one could speak of the auditory imagery of instrumental sounds ("the squeal and the blare and the / tweedle of bagpipes") in a certain poem (like Williams's "The Dance"). There's every reason to treat "image" in the same fashion, with five subclasses, one of which (visual) is usually presupposed if one of the others is not designated. A bit pedestrian or simplistically academic, but that seems to be its current usage. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:19 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms > What is a musical note then? Or any other "abstract" sound? It might > provoke an image, but isn't necessarily itself one. It can be > contained in a concept and trigger an emotion, but seems to be > neither. I define the musical note as an auditory image. Is there another term for it? > What about a bad odor? Olfactory image. But I'm pretty sure others would not use image in this way. But what would they use? On the other hand, I think many people might consider the odor of a rose part of their image of a rose. I'm thinking of image as perceptual complex, but maybe that would be the term to use, with "image" indicating a subcategory of perceptual complex, the visual perceptual complex. It is some kind of perceptual complex that I believe the words of a poem create along with ideas and emotions. --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard Mon Jun 18 17:00:45 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:00:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706181240q2d256502y9247346b7ada6e1a@mail.gmail.com> <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Oh, pooh! Now there's an image for you. Hal "To emphasize only the beautiful seems to me to be like a mathematical system that only concerns itself with positive numbers." --Franz Kafka Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 18, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> What is a musical note then? Or any other "abstract" sound? It might >> provoke an image, but isn't necessarily itself one. It can be >> contained in a concept and trigger an emotion, but seems to be >> neither. > > I define the musical note as an auditory image. Is there another > term for it? > >> What about a bad odor? > > Olfactory image. But I'm pretty sure others would not use image in > this way. But what would they use? On the other hand, I think > many people might consider the odor of a rose part of their image > of a rose. > > I'm thinking of image as perceptual complex, but maybe that would > be the term to use, with "image" indicating a subcategory of > perceptual complex, the visual perceptual complex. It is some kind > of perceptual complex that I believe the words of a poem create > along with ideas and emotions. > > --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard Mon Jun 18 17:02:02 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:02:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <074D84AA-2E5A-4DF6-8D8D-003523BA6475@earthlink.net> Olfactory/musical image: I love the smell of rosin in the morning. Hal "How beautiful it is to do nothing, and then rest afterward." --Spanish proverb Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 18, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Auditory, olfactory, etc. are used commonly with the word > "imagery," and > imagery is taught that way in many texts. Thus, one could speak of the > auditory imagery of instrumental sounds ("the squeal and the blare > and the / > tweedle of bagpipes") in a certain poem (like Williams's "The Dance"). > There's every reason to treat "image" in the same fashion, with five > subclasses, one of which (visual) is usually presupposed if one of the > others is not designated. A bit pedestrian or simplistically > academic, but > that seems to be its current usage. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:19 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms > >> What is a musical note then? Or any other "abstract" sound? It might >> provoke an image, but isn't necessarily itself one. It can be >> contained in a concept and trigger an emotion, but seems to be >> neither. > > I define the musical note as an auditory image. Is there another > term for > it? > >> What about a bad odor? > > Olfactory image. But I'm pretty sure others would not use image in > this > way. But what would they use? On the other hand, I think many > people might > > consider the odor of a rose part of their image of a rose. > > I'm thinking of image as perceptual complex, but maybe that would > be the > term to use, with "image" indicating a subcategory of perceptual > complex, > the visual perceptual complex. It is some kind of perceptual > complex that I > > believe the words of a poem create along with ideas and emotions. > > --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 17:07:33 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:07:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <074D84AA-2E5A-4DF6-8D8D-003523BA6475@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <036a01c7b1ec$b0b7eb30$f3ab3252@ANNY> But listent Halvard, do you want to beat Shakespeare? > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > "How beautiful it is to do nothing, > and then rest afterward." > --Spanish proverb and now let me just rest for a while, all this effort in imagining. From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 17:15:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:15:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] LibriVox.org Message-ID: <037501c7b1ed$d556f5c0$f3ab3252@ANNY> And here is the entire Ulysses: http://www.archive.org/details/ulysses_2007_librivox _____ a double rest for me now: Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 19:09:49 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 18:09:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <00b301c7b1fd$c71f2da0$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Skip! You can't be tellin' me I'm . . . mainstream on this!? --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Fox" To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms > Auditory, olfactory, etc. are used commonly with the word "imagery," and > imagery is taught that way in many texts. Thus, one could speak of the > auditory imagery of instrumental sounds ("the squeal and the blare and the > / > tweedle of bagpipes") in a certain poem (like Williams's "The Dance"). > There's every reason to treat "image" in the same fashion, with five > subclasses, one of which (visual) is usually presupposed if one of the > others is not designated. A bit pedestrian or simplistically academic, but > that seems to be its current usage. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:19 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms > >> What is a musical note then? Or any other "abstract" sound? It might >> provoke an image, but isn't necessarily itself one. It can be >> contained in a concept and trigger an emotion, but seems to be >> neither. > > I define the musical note as an auditory image. Is there another term for > it? > >> What about a bad odor? > > Olfactory image. But I'm pretty sure others would not use image in this > way. But what would they use? On the other hand, I think many people > might > > consider the odor of a rose part of their image of a rose. > > I'm thinking of image as perceptual complex, but maybe that would be the > term to use, with "image" indicating a subcategory of perceptual complex, > the visual perceptual complex. It is some kind of perceptual complex that > I > > believe the words of a poem create along with ideas and emotions. > > --Bob >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From chris.lott Mon Jun 18 18:19:57 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:19:57 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> I really don't see much difference between classifying sound as an "auditory image" and classifying touch as a "tactile image" or sadness as an "emotional image." At least I don't really see the utility of that kind of classification... certainly not "every reason" to suppose it so. Any category that conflates a C# note with the smell of burnt flesh and the flare of a rose in one's headlights has become a bit too broad to matter for my purposes. c From halvard Mon Jun 18 18:43:22 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:43:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, I wouldn't call sadness an image, of any sort. Images to my way of thinking have sensory appeals (no matter what senses we refer to), and may express and/or evoke emotions. Hal "One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at the death of Little Nell." --Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 18, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > I really don't see much difference between classifying sound as an > "auditory image" and classifying touch as a "tactile image" or sadness > as an "emotional image." At least I don't really see the utility of > that kind of classification... certainly not "every reason" to suppose > it so. > > Any category that conflates a C# note with the smell of burnt flesh > and the flare of a rose in one's headlights has become a bit too broad > to matter for my purposes. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james Mon Jun 18 18:57:40 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:57:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60706181557k23eb8eb1y38827e4a28a2f996@mail.gmail.com> C# is ominous. A-flat may indicate a bad ear. A flat may indicate road hazards. - Jim On 6/18/07, Chris Lott wrote: > I really don't see much difference between classifying sound as an > "auditory image" and classifying touch as a "tactile image" or sadness > as an "emotional image." At least I don't really see the utility of > that kind of classification... certainly not "every reason" to suppose > it so. > > Any category that conflates a C# note with the smell of burnt flesh > and the flare of a rose in one's headlights has become a bit too broad > to matter for my purposes. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From chris.lott Mon Jun 18 19:12:44 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:12:44 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706181612k33304aa0ndd85af0baa1f9c62@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Well, I wouldn't call sadness an image, of any sort. > Images to my way of thinking have sensory appeals > (no matter what senses we refer to), and may express > and/or evoke emotions. I wouldn't call sadness an image either. But then I wouldn't call a musical note an image either thought it *might* invoke one. Or it might slap me on the ass and ask me to take it home. c From chris.lott Mon Jun 18 19:13:22 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:13:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <648208b60706181557k23eb8eb1y38827e4a28a2f996@mail.gmail.com> References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706181557k23eb8eb1y38827e4a28a2f996@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706181613v17370ca2o9991ab8c0ecf8e37@mail.gmail.com> On 6/18/07, James Cervantes wrote: > C# is ominous. A-flat may indicate a bad ear. A flat may indicate > road hazards. It's the diminished chords you have to watch out for. They have a real chip on their shoulder. And the harmonic minor scale... nothing good has ever come of it and all its weeping. c From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 20:14:51 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:14:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ca01c7b206$e37ac410$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I really don't see much difference between classifying sound as an > "auditory image" and classifying touch as a "tactile image" or sadness > as an "emotional image." At least I don't really see the utility of > that kind of classification... certainly not "every reason" to suppose > it so. > > Any category that conflates a C# note with the smell of burnt flesh > and the flare of a rose in one's headlights has become a bit too broad > to matter for my purposes. > > c Well, it works for me because in my psychology sensual images go to one place in the brain, concepts go to a second, and emotions go--actually, come--from a third. And the catgory of "image" is a primary category, so you can easily distinguish your image of C# from your image of the smell of burnt flesh by calling the first an auditory image, the second an olfactory image--just as you can distinguish a poem about the C# from a poem about the smell of burnt flesh by calling the first an auditory-image poem, the seond an olfactory-image poem, or whatever you want to do when referring to particular members of the hugely broad category "poem" (which I suspect is broader than the category "image"). --Bob From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 20:21:14 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:21:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><9b1b9dab0706181519q 3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c7b207$c204d400$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Well, I wouldn't call sadness an image, of any sort. > Images to my way of thinking have sensory appeals > (no matter what senses we refer to), and may express > and/or evoke emotions. > > Hal Yike, I agree with you. What's going on? Sadness, for me, is sufficiently classified by calling it an emotion. I think calling some image an emotional image risks its being confused with some other kind of image that is emotional. For instance, the image of a dead pet dog is an emotional visual image but not an emotional image. --Bob From chris.lott Mon Jun 18 19:20:18 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:20:18 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <00ca01c7b206$e37ac410$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <9b1b9dab0706181519q3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com> <00ca01c7b206$e37ac410$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706181620q59e00421h9bea07802843dcf7@mail.gmail.com> I have no way to prove it but I strongly doubt that sensual images of all kinds including images both visual and recalled go to one place in my brain, and I definitely don't perceive sound (or smell) as anything akin to an image. It's all in the brain, true, but I maintain that a category that broad is effectively meaningless to me. How is an emotion that provokes an image not just as close to "being an image" as a sound that does the same thing? c From chris.lott Mon Jun 18 19:22:22 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:22:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <00cf01c7b207$c204d400$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <00cf01c7b207$c204d400$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706181622i28623344nf07c8a0b17d447b@mail.gmail.com> In case it's not sufficiently clear, I wouldn't call sadness an emotional image either. It's not useful. My point was that calling a C# or the smell of my toe-jam an image seems about that useful. c On 6/18/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > Well, I wouldn't call sadness an image, of any sort. > > Images to my way of thinking have sensory appeals > > (no matter what senses we refer to), and may express > > and/or evoke emotions. > > > > Hal > > Yike, I agree with you. What's going on? Sadness, for me, is sufficiently > classified by calling it an emotion. I think calling some image an > emotional image risks its being confused with some other kind of image that > is emotional. For instance, the image of a dead pet dog is an emotional > visual image but not an emotional image. > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Chris Lott From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 21:42:58 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:42:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <008d01c7b1ee$59e06740$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000201c7b1e7$d86fb630$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><9b1b9dab0706181519q 3b02fce0n440119cfb7f59451@mail.gmail.com><00ca01c7b206$e37ac410$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706181620q59e00421h9bea07802843dcf7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f601c7b213$2c314e20$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I have no way to prove it but I strongly doubt that sensual images of > all kinds including images both visual and recalled go to one place in > my brain, I meant they go to one large place in the brain. But they go to different parts of it. Concepts go to an entirely different place in the brain. To simplify. Certainly, part of concepts go to the image area, and parts of images go to the concept area. Etc. and I definitely don't perceive sound (or smell) as anything > akin to an image. Yes, but what are they, then? > It's all in the brain, true, but I maintain that a > category that broad is effectively meaningless to me. You ignored the poetry category, which you seem to accept although it's large than the image category. And you aren't picking up on the simple idea that broad categories can be divided. > How is an > emotion that provokes an image not just as close to "being an image" There are complexities. Emotions are a bit problematic to me. But I don't conceive of emotions are provoking rather than being provoked. In any case, if an emotion somehow arose by itself and made you think of a sound, say, how would that make the emotion an image any more than the sound's provoking an emotion would make the emotion an image? --Bob From jon Mon Jun 18 21:25:11 2007 From: jon (Jonathan Minton) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:25:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <200706181600.l5IG04iu004679@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <00b601c7b210$ae6eb420$2d01a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> This might be splitting hairs, but why can't reading a poem be an experience? Surely we all sometimes read poems in this manner-not merely because the poem services or "renders" some sort of exterior content, but also because the sounds, forms, grammars, logic etc. of the poem are pleasures and events in themselves. At least in my mind, this is what distinguishes poems such as Crane's "Voyages" from, say, articles on maritime history. Plus there are plenty of poetic traditions that create intellectual and emotional experiences without referring to any experiences outside of the poem at all-sound poetry, zaum poetry, lettrist poetry, visual poetry, etc. Jonathan Minton On Jun 18, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render > experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry > creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's > prose. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through > language, except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg From bobgrumman Tue Jun 19 08:08:36 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:08:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <200706181600.l5IG04iu004679@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <00b601c7b210$ae6eb420$2d01a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <000801c7b26a$9a1bf730$09fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > This might be splitting hairs, but why can't reading a poem be an > experience? Surely we all sometimes read poems in this manner-not merely > because the poem services or "renders" some sort of exterior content, but > also because the sounds, forms, grammars, logic etc. of the poem are > pleasures and events in themselves. At least in my mind, this is what > distinguishes poems such as Crane's "Voyages" from, say, articles on > maritime history. Plus there are plenty of poetic traditions that create > intellectual and emotional experiences without referring to any > experiences outside of the poem at all-sound poetry, zaum poetry, lettrist > poetry, visual poetry, etc. > Jonathan Minton I'm not sure of the difference between "render" and "create," but I do know that I and my environment create my experience. Since sometimes a poem is my environment, it and I create an experience while I'm in it. No more nor less than what I and a beach might do. And part of the poetry experience can include elements not available in reality, like a combination of words never before known. --Bob > > > On Jun 18, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > >> I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render >> experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry >> creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. >> >> lsg >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jeff Newberry >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views >> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms >> >> >> >> Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's >> prose. >> >> Jeff Newberry >> >> On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: >> Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the >> experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the >> experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through >> language, except the experience of experiencing the language. >> >> lsg > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Tue Jun 19 14:14:41 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:14:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0706181612k33304aa0ndd85af0baa1f9c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c7b29d$baab0c10$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Just by way of standard definition, imagery is limited to "representation through language of sense experience" (Perrine freshman text). It goes on: The word _image_ perhaps most often suggests a mental picture--and _visual_ imagery is the kind of imagery that occurs most frequently in poetry. But an image may also represent a sound (_auditory imagery_); a taste (_gustatory imagery_); touch, such as hardness, softness, wetness, or heat and cold (_tactile imagery_); an internal sensation, such as hunger, thirst, fatigue, or nausea (_organic imagery_); or movement or tension in the muscles or joints (_kinesthetic imagery_). Perrine (or Arp) then goes on to allow for the possibility of more than "five or even six senses," which certain psychologists allow for. Bob _is_ in the mainstream, or in one of its currents. (Perrine, Laurence, and Thomas R. Arp. _Literature: Structure, Sound, and Sense_. 6th ed. Fort Worth, TX: Harcourt, 1993. 569.) On the off-track: But then Perrine "corrects" Dickinson's punctuation and capitalization. (I got a long letter from Arp when I wrote them about this. Mostly blowing smoke up my ass--I could have gone for _tactile_ imagery, but thought I'd be nice. The text has since revered to Johnson's general presentation of her work with comma-dashes &c..) From skip Tue Jun 19 14:46:23 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:46:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <000001c7b29d$baab0c10$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <000001c7b2a2$28922160$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Somehow I missed "a smell (_olfactory imagery_)" after _auditory imagery_. Sorry. But another minor point. I probably quote Charles Olson too much (to myself and others) but he contends, I think rightly, that one mistake of Aristotelian thought is that people tend to believe that by classifying something they _know_ it. Olson believed that classification was a worthy endeavor, though because people "stop" their consideration there, it often proves a constraint to continued viable thinking. One becomes settled, smug and as satisfied as an author of college textbooks. I don't know if Olson made the following point, but I think he might agree. Classification tends to freeze potentially fruitful extensions of thought by emphasizing the differences of things, rather than their potential interplay. Like the potential for _emotional imagery_. Since it doesn't fit "in the box," we don't consider the potential that these states might be just as pronounced, distinct, dense (whatever) as those derived from the senses. And perhaps those psychologists Perrine mentions who believe in six or more senses might be speaking of states like this. Classification is fine as a step in thought, a tentative one, open to continual reconsideration. At least that's how I read (and agree with) Olson. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:15 PM To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms Just by way of standard definition, imagery is limited to "representation through language of sense experience" (Perrine freshman text). It goes on: The word _image_ perhaps most often suggests a mental picture--and _visual_ imagery is the kind of imagery that occurs most frequently in poetry. But an image may also represent a sound (_auditory imagery_); a taste (_gustatory imagery_); touch, such as hardness, softness, wetness, or heat and cold (_tactile imagery_); an internal sensation, such as hunger, thirst, fatigue, or nausea (_organic imagery_); or movement or tension in the muscles or joints (_kinesthetic imagery_). Perrine (or Arp) then goes on to allow for the possibility of more than "five or even six senses," which certain psychologists allow for. Bob _is_ in the mainstream, or in one of its currents. (Perrine, Laurence, and Thomas R. Arp. _Literature: Structure, Sound, and Sense_. 6th ed. Fort Worth, TX: Harcourt, 1993. 569.) On the off-track: But then Perrine "corrects" Dickinson's punctuation and capitalization. (I got a long letter from Arp when I wrote them about this. Mostly blowing smoke up my ass--I could have gone for _tactile_ imagery, but thought I'd be nice. The text has since revered to Johnson's general presentation of her work with comma-dashes &c..) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Tue Jun 19 16:31:53 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:31:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <000001c7b2a2$28922160$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <004701c7b2b0$e2298ab0$09fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Somehow I missed "a smell (_olfactory imagery_)" after _auditory imagery_. > Sorry. > > But another minor point. I probably quote Charles Olson too much (to > myself > and others) but he contends, I think rightly, that one mistake of > Aristotelian thought is that people tend to believe that by classifying > something they _know_ it. Olson believed that classification was a worthy > endeavor, though because people "stop" their consideration there, it often > proves a constraint to continued viable thinking. One becomes settled, > smug > and as satisfied as an author of college textbooks. > > I don't know if Olson made the following point, but I think he might > agree. > Classification tends to freeze potentially fruitful extensions of thought > by > emphasizing the differences of things, rather than their potential > interplay. Like the potential for _emotional imagery_. Since it doesn't > fit > "in the box," we don't consider the potential that these states might be > just as pronounced, distinct, dense (whatever) as those derived from the > senses. And perhaps those psychologists Perrine mentions who believe in > six > or more senses might be speaking of states like this. Interestingly, as soon as I got into this discussion, exactly how to define what some might call an "emotional image" struck me as a problem Emotion seems different in kind from sensual image. But what about the word, sadness?" My provisional thought is that it is a concept. Concepts can cause emotion. This one might make one remember a sad image. Little Nell. One experiences the image of little Nell, which is not a feeling, and the feeling of sadness, which is not an image. I disagree with Charles about taxonomy. It's not the process that matters but the people who use it. If a taxonomy freezes someone's understanding of something, it's the person's fault, not the taxonomy's fault. All one needs to do if accept that all taxonomical categories break down at their borders. I wouldn't say be constantly tentative so much as do not be constantly certain. Aside from that, if most of our understanding were not frozen, we'd go nuts, instantaneously. Or so I think. Iz i out of the mainstream yet? Or further in? thanks for the thoughts. --Bob From halvard Tue Jun 19 15:43:14 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:43:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <000001c7b2a2$28922160$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7b2a2$28922160$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Even naming is enough to stop thought. "All naming is already murder." --Jacques Lacan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:46 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Somehow I missed "a smell (_olfactory imagery_)" after _auditory > imagery_. > Sorry. > > But another minor point. I probably quote Charles Olson too much > (to myself > and others) but he contends, I think rightly, that one mistake of > Aristotelian thought is that people tend to believe that by > classifying > something they _know_ it. Olson believed that classification was a > worthy > endeavor, though because people "stop" their consideration there, > it often > proves a constraint to continued viable thinking. One becomes > settled, smug > and as satisfied as an author of college textbooks. > > I don't know if Olson made the following point, but I think he > might agree. > Classification tends to freeze potentially fruitful extensions of > thought by > emphasizing the differences of things, rather than their potential > interplay. Like the potential for _emotional imagery_. Since it > doesn't fit > "in the box," we don't consider the potential that these states > might be > just as pronounced, distinct, dense (whatever) as those derived > from the > senses. And perhaps those psychologists Perrine mentions who > believe in six > or more senses might be speaking of states like this. > > Classification is fine as a step in thought, a tentative one, open to > continual reconsideration. At least that's how I read (and agree with) > Olson. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:15 PM > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms > > Just by way of standard definition, imagery is limited to > "representation > through language of sense experience" (Perrine freshman text). It > goes on: > > > > The word _image_ perhaps most often suggests a mental picture--and > _visual_ > imagery is the kind of imagery that occurs most frequently in > poetry. But an > image may also represent a sound (_auditory imagery_); a taste > (_gustatory > imagery_); touch, such as hardness, softness, wetness, or heat and > cold > (_tactile imagery_); an internal sensation, such as hunger, thirst, > fatigue, > or nausea (_organic imagery_); or movement or tension in the > muscles or > joints (_kinesthetic imagery_). > > > > Perrine (or Arp) then goes on to allow for the possibility of more > than > "five or even six senses," which certain psychologists allow for. > > Bob _is_ in the mainstream, or in one of its currents. > > (Perrine, Laurence, and Thomas R. Arp. _Literature: Structure, > Sound, and > Sense_. 6th ed. Fort Worth, TX: Harcourt, 1993. 569.) > > > > On the off-track: > > But then Perrine "corrects" Dickinson's punctuation and > capitalization. (I > got a long letter from Arp when I wrote them about this. Mostly > blowing > smoke up my ass--I could have gone for _tactile_ imagery, but > thought I'd be > nice. The text has since revered to Johnson's general presentation > of her > work with comma-dashes &c..) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 20 06:42:28 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:42:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vikram Seth on the Almanac Message-ID: <000901c7b327$b2d74fa0$452bb750@ANNY> WEDNESDAY, 20 JUNE, 2007 Listen (RealAudio) | How to listen Poem: "Sit, drink your coffee here; your work can wait awhile..." by Vikram Seth, from All You Who Sleep Tonight. ? Phoenix The Orion Publishing Group Ltd, 1990. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) "Sit, drink Your coffee here; your work can wait awhile..." Sit, drink your coffee here; your work can wait awhile. You're twenty-six, and still have some life ahead. No need for wit; just talk vacuities, and I'll Reciprocate in kind, or laugh at you instead. The world is too opaque, distressing and profound. This twenty minutes' rendezvous will make my day: To sit here in the sun, with grackles all around, Staring with beady eyes, and you two feet away. Literary and Historical Notes: It's the birthday of Vikram Seth, (books by this author) born in Calcutta, India (1952). In 1975, he moved to the United States to get a Ph.D. in economics at Stanford, but he took poetry classes on the side. He wrote his dissertation on the economics of Chinese villages, and then got a grant to travel to China. He spent two years there, and in the summer of 1982, he decided to walk and hitchhike from China back to his birthplace in India, traveling through Tibet and Nepal along the way. He carried a journal with him and wrote down his thoughts throughout the journey. When he got back to the United States, he sent his travel journal to a publisher, and it became the first book that publisher had accepted out of the slush pile in more than a decade. The book was called From Heaven Lake (1983), and it got great reviews. Seth went on to publish several collections of poetry. He was reading a lot of book-length poems at the time, such as Byron's Don Juan and Pushkin's Eugene Onegin, and it occurred to him that no one had ever written a book-length poem about contemporary American life. So he wrote an epic rhymed poem about California yuppies called The Golden Gate. It tells the story of the computer engineers working in Silicon Valley, developing the early version of the personal computer. He sent the finished product to every poetry publisher in America, but they all turned him down. He almost gave up hope, but a fiction editor happened to pick up the manuscript. Seth hadn't even thought of trying to sell the book as a novel, but that's how it got published in 1986, as a novel in verse. Seth moved back to Calcutta, India, to live with his parents in the late 1980s. He wanted to write something that would capture the sweep of history from India's independence up to present day, so he invented four Indian families and told what happened to each of them in the wake of India's independence. After several years of writing, he sent the manuscript to his agent. It was 5,000 pages long. His editor helped him trim it down to about 1,500 pages, but the novel, A Suitable Boy (1993), became the longest single-volume work of fiction in English since 1747. It became a best-seller in India, England, and the United States. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Wed Jun 20 10:49:04 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:49:04 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <2820372E-0818-41B7-9FB6-8FAEEB0CE8A3@muohio.edu> <004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: umm "wikipoo": if you don't like it, change it. Roger On 6/18/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > i'm reposting this wiki stuff on the term image. My concern is that broadly > the use and foregrounding of such a term as Image lumps that which can be > perceived by our senses way too much into the retinal and concepts related > thereof. > > sound, for example does begin to enter lower down on this def list but . . . > . > > > > > In common usage, an image (from Latin imago) or picture is an artifact that > reproduces the likeness of some subject?usually a physical object or a > person. > > Images may be two dimensional, such as a photograph, or three dimensional > such as in a statue. They are typically produced by optical devices?such as > a cameras, mirrors, lenses, telescopes, microscopes, etc. and natural > objects and phenomena, such as the human eye or water surfaces. > > The word image is also used in the broader sense of any two-dimensional > figure such as a map, a graph, a pie chart, or an abstract painting. In this > wider sense, images can also be produced manually, such as by drawing, > painting, carving, by computer graphics technology, or a combination of the > two, especially in a pseudo-photograph. > > A volatile image is one that exists only for a short period of time. This > may be a reflection of an object by a mirror, a projection of a camera > obscura, or a scene displayed on a cathode ray tube. A fixed image, also > called a hardcopy, is one that has been recorded on a material object, such > as paper or textile. > > A mental image exists in an individual's mind: something one remembers or > imagines. The subject of an image need not be real; it may be an abstract > concept, such as a graph, function, or "imaginary" entity. For example, > Sigmund Freud claimed to have dreamt purely in aural-images of dialogues. > The development of synthetic acoustic technologies and the creation of sound > art have led to a consideration of the possibilities of a sound-image > comprised of irreducible phonic substance beyond linguistic or musicological > analysis. > > > > love and love > cris > > Sure seems as though you and I are on one side of what an image is, and > Wikipedia is on the other, Cris. I wouldn't say Wikipoo, as I call it, is > always wrong, but always limited, and often wrong. But maybe there's some > term out there I'm unfamiliar with or for some obscure reason am blocked > from that would cover a musical chord, for instance, or a smell, or all the > other kinds of things not just visual that I would call images. And maybe > there's some general term that would cover visual image and all these other > things. In any case, thanks for the reply! > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons." Roman Proverb From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 20 14:10:58 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:10:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] forwarding ---by Alan Sondheim Message-ID: <00b801c7b366$5aacab10$452bb750@ANNY> Mountain Sutra http://www.asondheim.org/marylake.mp4 To smite is to kill someone most probably with a cudgel. To be smitten means either to be killed or in love. Love and death meet in the word. "The world has no part in the experience. It permits itself to be exper- ienced, but has no concern in the matter. For it does nothing to the experience, and the experience does nothing to it." (Martin Buber) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley Wed Jun 20 16:51:28 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:51:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <200706201600.l5KG04it031678@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200706201600.l5KG04it031678@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <2D3ECFB0-E2C5-43CB-B9BC-F9AC920758D7@overdomain.com> Paying attention to the pleasure one feels during sensual experiences (that is, while experiencing sense images) is very close to the meaning of the sanskrit word "kama". Practicing kama may seem facile in contemporary art because of its close association with "beauty" and the denigration of the beautiful in almost all art of 20C (few cursory examples that come to mind: criticism by various people of work of Mapplethorpe and Morton Feldman for being "too beautiful", Picasso through de Kooning's slaughter of the female form, etc.), but I would argue that it is essential to recent poetry (example: Creeley's praise of Olson) and future non-Eliotian poetries. All "negative numbers" (which I spose would mean images that cause pain) that Kafka mentions could be represented in comedy. (At least if, like me, you're bored by the belief of some Buddhists, Puritans and confessional poets that "life is suffering".) Representing the entire universe of sense images as beautiful and hilarious, I think, will be made by contrary trends in 20C poetry (as well as performing and visual arts) to appear quite new. > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:14:41 -0500 > From: "Skip Fox" > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms > To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'" > > Message-ID: <000001c7b29d$baab0c10$f4954682 at win.louisiana.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Just by way of standard definition, imagery is limited to > "representation > through language of sense experience" (Perrine freshman text). It > goes on: > > > > The word _image_ perhaps most often suggests a mental picture--and > _visual_ > imagery is the kind of imagery that occurs most frequently in > poetry. But an > image may also represent a sound (_auditory imagery_); a taste > (_gustatory > imagery_); touch, such as hardness, softness, wetness, or heat and > cold > (_tactile imagery_); an internal sensation, such as hunger, thirst, > fatigue, > or nausea (_organic imagery_); or movement or tension in the > muscles or > joints (_kinesthetic imagery_). > > > > Perrine (or Arp) then goes on to allow for the possibility of more > than > "five or even six senses," which certain psychologists allow for. > From bobgrumman Wed Jun 20 18:30:52 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:30:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><2820372E-0818-41B7-9FB6- 8FAEEB0CE8A3@muohio.edu><004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00f201c7b38a$ab2a18b0$b2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > umm "wikipoo": if you don't like it, change it. > > Roger Right. Then others change it back or to something worse. --Bob From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 21 13:22:42 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:22:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Henry James Message-ID: <015301c7b428$c6d5a450$9faa3452@ANNY> Agnes Kovacs, The Function of the Imagination in the Writings of Henry James: The Production of a Civilized Experience (MellenPress 2007). Description The book investigates the ways in which Henry James uses the term 'the imagination' in three different discursive contexts: in his critical articles on novelists and literature, in his fictional production, and in his essays on American culture. The book differentiates the diverse meanings the term 'the imagination' has for James in different contexts and thereby places his novelistic project among those of American, French, English, and Russian writers of his age. The work offers a case study of the Jamesian ideas with some reference to his contemporary context. In general, the Jamesian imagination proves to be a part of James's contextual model of understanding. In his critical articles on other novelists, the imagination is mainly responsible for an active, profound transformation of impressions into a process of experience, and this quality of the imagination is referred to as moral. In the novels, the imagination retains its central role in the process of understanding, but understanding becomes a social affair of more than one person. The morality of the imagination in this social sense lies in the perceiver's awareness of others' versions of understanding and in making his choices as to which one he chooses to accept. In the essays on American culture, the implicit norm of the socially defined moral imagination leads James to pass harsh judgement on Americans he no longer understands. The term 'the imagination' is defined cognitively in the critical articles, but in the novels its function becomes a social one: for James the author, the imagination is not so much a faculty of personal experience and knowledge but one of social experience and of a communal production of knowledge. The moral aspect of the imagination becomes social in the novels, too, referring to the choices one makes in relations to others. In the essays on culture, this social ideal of imaginative understanding is applied through a discussion of American manners. The term 'the imagination' refers to the imagination of the author-narrator, the character, and the critic as well, and thereby expands to be an aspect of literary communication. In this way, the intellectual project James the critic outlined for himself as a novelist at the crossroads of American, French, and English traditions of the novel has evolved through the changes of his contextual model of understanding. For James the novelist and cultural critic, the project has become an imaginative processing of the moral aspects of social interactions. Reviews "Interest in the work of Henry James has remained strong even in an age of multicultural criticism. However, recent readings of James have shown a tendency to disregard the one aspect of his work that is crucial for an understanding of it: the role of the imagination. The imagination is crucial for James, not only as a source of artistic creativity, but, even more so, as a faculty that gives shape to our knowledge about the world ... Dr. Agnes Kov?cs rightly insists that in James' world the word 'moral' refers to the quality of the imagination and its ability to grasp the real. His novels therefore explore the profoundly social nature of the imagination and describe characters which run into problems because of a lack of moral imagination. As is demonstrated in the last part of this study, it was a suspicion that James finally had about America. In going from James' early essays on French realism to his 'late' views on America, this study thus also successfully links aesthetic theory and cultural criticism. It provides a welcome and needed addition to our understanding and appreciation of the work of James." - (from the Preface) Professor Winfried Fluck, Freie Universit?t Berlin " ... this book opens a fresh and original perspective on James's theoretical and fictional work - a work that has been discussed and analyzed from a myriad of theoretical angles. Dr. Kov?cs nevertheless manages not only to add but to also enrich the already huge and still expanding field of James scholarship ... the book, in its close and detailed readings of the texts, thus illustrates the different aspects and angles of James's 'civilizing project' - the various, yet complementary answers James's work gives to the idea in which the quality (the 'art') of life or living is linked to the quality (the 'life') of his art." - Dr. Heinz Ickstadt, Professor Emeritus, Freie Universit?t Berlin "This is a truly original and highly sensitive contribution to James studies. The study offers a careful examination of the key concept of 'imagination' in a non-Romantic sense across a wide range of Jamesian texts, and patiently develops a case for regarding this faculty not as a merely private capacity for James, but as an intensely social predisposition, which forms the basis for a particular understanding of the moral." - Professor Dr. Gert Buelens, Ghent University Table of Contents Preface by Winfried Fluck Acknowledgements Introduction Part 1. The Case of James 1. The Role of the Moral Imagination in Henry James's Essays on Literature Part 2. Imagination and Experience in the Novels 2. Limits of the Imagination 3. The Challenges of the Imagination 4. The Moral Function of the Imagination Part 3. Imagination and Cultural Criticism 5. Critical Imagination in Nonfiction Conclusion: The Moral Imagination Notes Bibliography Index ISBN10: 0-7734-5787-9 ISBN13: 978-0-7734-5787-4 Pages: 376 Year: 2006 Web: http://www.mellenpress.com/mellenpress.cfm?bookid=6810&pc= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 21 13:24:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:24:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Henry James References: <015301c7b428$c6d5a450$9faa3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <017101c7b429$0f51daf0$9faa3452@ANNY> Sorry, here is the right link: http://www.mellenpress.com/mellenpress.cfm?bookid=6810&pc=9 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Jun 21 15:03:13 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] US and THEM In-Reply-To: <783093.86003.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <203004.7935.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This Sunday and next Friday: ~~~~ PFS Post presents ~~ Amy King, Adam Fieled and Mark Lamoureux ~~ Sunday, June 24 @ 8:00 p.m. Sidewalk Cafe 6th St. and Avenue A New York , NY http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com/ ____________________________________ MiPOesias presents ~~ ETHAN PAQUIN ~ STACY SZYMASZEK ~ ALVERZ RICARDEZ ~~ Friday, June 29, 2007 @ 7:00 PM ~~~ ETHAN PAQUIN is author of My Thieves (Salt, 2007), The Violence (Ahsahta Press, 2005), Accumulus (Salt, 2003) and The Makeshift ( UK : Stride, 2002). He lives and teaches in Buffalo , NY , and returns to seacoast New Hampshire every summer. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/paquin_ethan.html Stacy Szymaszek is the author of Emptied of All Ships (Litmus Press, 2005) as well as several chapbooks. After working at Woodland Pattern Book Center in Milwaukee , WI for many years she moved to New York to be the Program Coordinator at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. This year she is also the Monday Night Reading curator. She edited Gam: A Survey of Great Lakes Writing which lived for 4 issues, and now works as co-editor or contributing editor on various projects including Instance Press and Fascicle. Her current work in process is called "hyper glossia," parts of which can be found on the internet, in a Belladonna* chap book and forthcoming from Hot Whiskey Press. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/szymaszek_stacey.html ALVERZ RICARDEZ is the publisher of Kill Poet Press & Journal. His poetry has been published in several journals including Chronogram, Softblow, Pemmican, Language & Culture & AVQ. Alveraz lives in Los Angeles and is currently working on his second volume of poetry. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/ricardez_alveraz.html ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King MiPO Host http://www.mipoesias.com ~~~ --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Jun 22 17:35:17 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:35:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <00f201c7b38a$ab2a18b0$b2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <00f201c7b38a$ab2a18b0$b2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: maybe, maybe not. If you don't play, don't fuckin complain. On 6/20/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > umm "wikipoo": if you don't like it, change it. > > > > Roger > > Right. Then others change it back or to something worse. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons." Roman Proverb From bobgrumman Fri Jun 22 19:30:02 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:30:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44 fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><00f201c7b38a$ab2a18b0$b2fad740@youro0kwkw9j wc> Message-ID: <003f01c7b525$43822ad0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > maybe, maybe not. > > If you don't play, don't fuckin complain. I'm not complaining, merely stating the fact that Wikipoo is worthless. --Bob From bobgrumman Fri Jun 22 21:31:56 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:31:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44 fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><00f201c7b38a$ab2a18b0$b2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <003f01c7b525$43822ad0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <005e01c7b536$65356cd0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >> maybe, maybe not. >> >> If you don't play, don't fuckin complain. > > I'm not complaining, merely stating the fact that Wikipoo is worthless. Correction: not worthless, just no better than the Britannica. (And I did play with it for a while--great idea that went blooey.) > --Bob From screwzbaran Fri Jun 22 20:37:55 2007 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:37:55 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <005e01c7b536$65356cd0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <00f201c7b38a$ab2a18b0$b2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <003f01c7b525$43822ad0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <005e01c7b536$65356cd0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0706221737p66462d37jab84a5c77c04d18d@mail.gmail.com> Agreed on that count!! It's no "World Book" - ha ha. On 6/22/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > >> maybe, maybe not. > >> > >> If you don't play, don't fuckin complain. > > > > I'm not complaining, merely stating the fact that Wikipoo is worthless. > > Correction: not worthless, just no better than the Britannica. (And I did > play with it for a while--great idea that went blooey.) > > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "What is defeat in life? It is not merely making a mistake; defeat means giving up on yourself in the midst of difficulty. What is true success in life? True success means winning in your battle with yourself. Those who persist in the pursuit of their dreams, no matter what the hurdles, are winners in life, for they have won over their weaknesses." - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Fri Jun 22 23:00:21 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:00:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume Message-ID: Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life of its own. NYT June 23, 2007 Jury Finds Writer?s Alias Was Fraud By ALAN FEUER JT LeRoy, the authorial ?other? whom the writer Laura Albert employed as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, was found yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a fictional creation, but a fraud. Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury?s decision would not fall her way. ?I knew it this morning,? Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a tiny typewriter pendant with a legend that read ?Write Hard, Die Free.? ?I already went through it.? As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. Albert to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in 2003, signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature film of his novel ?Sarah,? a tale of filial love and prostitution set among the ?lot lizards? of a West Virginia truck stop. When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers? fees as well. Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, the broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and celebrity aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish canvas of the press. After ?Sarah? thrust the writer into stardom in 2000, JT LeRoy became the damaged darling of the art house set, a street waif and supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, usually by way of telephone or e-mail (he was ?famously reclusive?), befriended the likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder ? at least until his startling existence as a fiction was revealed. All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes paid her former boyfriend?s half-sister to appear in disguise as JT LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international film festival at Cannes. It was deceptions like these that Antidote?s lawyers said constituted her fraud. Yet even though the company?s lawyers assailed her in court as a trickster and wily master of self-promotion, they ? and their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte ? admitted a grudging admiration for her writing talents, and for her performance. They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her rather gruesome history ? a litany of adolescent trauma that included sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of telephone therapy in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the adopted persona of a teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, was a sort of early incarnation of the full-blown alter ego that would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. Among the various battles waged at the trial ? art versus commerce, truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination ? it was perhaps the battle over JT LeRoy?s purpose in the world that was most in dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was revealed last year in a series of newspaper articles, the production team at Antidote considered him that rare commodity in today?s biography- obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer with a titillating past that only enhanced the value of the work. After the revelation, the company took the position that Ms. Albert had used the JT LeRoy ?brand? ? the same that had attracted them ? as a celebrity magnet to draw attention to her books. Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain-Samuel Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort of ?respirator? for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet been determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote?s president, said in an interview yesterday that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back than about sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. ?I?m kind of a person of principle,? he said. ?Not kind of ? I am. I wasn?t willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no apology or reasonable explanation.? He said he would not seek to make a movie out of ?Sarah? as he had wished, calling the project ?too sullied and emotionally charged,? although he added, ?Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if they wanted.? He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made a fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to her past and future books. Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who ?pulled off something quite startling ? all these intelligent people were taken in.? It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. ?She?s liberated, in a way. It?s quite wonderful.? "I don't know what music is." --Ludvig van Beethoven Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 23 07:25:22 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:25:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] The Vatican Library Message-ID: <001f01c7b589$3090a000$d2ab3452@ANNY> The library was founded in 1451 and is open to scholars and academics who submit a letter of accreditation from a university or research institute. Its collection consists of about 1.6 million volumes, including some 75,000 manuscripts and 8,300 incunabula (printed books from the second half of the 15th century). It also has almost 400,000 coins and medals and prints and engravings. Each year about 20,000 scholars peruse material in the collection. from today's The New York Times -- Posted By Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 6/23/2007 01:10:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sat Jun 23 10:44:37 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:44:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should have guessed, but have learned since posting this NYT article, that Laura Albert was once (back when she was in her early 20s) a student of my wife's at the New School. Hal "Please stand clear of the closing doors." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 22, 2007, at 10:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life > of its own. > > NYT > > June 23, 2007 > > Jury Finds Writer?s Alias Was Fraud > > By ALAN FEUER > JT LeRoy, the authorial ?other? whom the writer Laura Albert > employed as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, > was found yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a > fictional creation, but a fraud. > > Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to > have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in > part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the > verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, > saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury?s decision > would not fall her way. > > ?I knew it this morning,? Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a > tiny typewriter pendant with a legend that read ?Write Hard, Die > Free.? ?I already went through it.? > > As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. > Albert to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in > 2003, signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature > film of his novel ?Sarah,? a tale of filial love and prostitution > set among the ?lot lizards? of a West Virginia truck stop. > > When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been > written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for > fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was > seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers? > fees as well. > > Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, > the broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and > celebrity aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish > canvas of the press. After ?Sarah? thrust the writer into stardom > in 2000, JT LeRoy became the damaged darling of the art house set, > a street waif and supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, > usually by way of telephone or e-mail (he was ?famously > reclusive?), befriended the likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder > ? at least until his startling existence as a fiction was revealed. > > All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise > obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty > fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and > famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave > interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes > paid her former boyfriend?s half-sister to appear in disguise as JT > LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international > film festival at Cannes. > > It was deceptions like these that Antidote?s lawyers said > constituted her fraud. Yet even though the company?s lawyers > assailed her in court as a trickster and wily master of self- > promotion, they ? and their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte ? admitted a > grudging admiration for her writing talents, and for her performance. > > They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon > apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her > rather gruesome history ? a litany of adolescent trauma that > included sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of > telephone therapy in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the > adopted persona of a teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to > calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, was a sort of early incarnation of the > full-blown alter ego that would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. > > Among the various battles waged at the trial ? art versus commerce, > truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination ? it was > perhaps the battle over JT LeRoy?s purpose in the world that was > most in dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was > revealed last year in a series of newspaper articles, the > production team at Antidote considered him that rare commodity in > today?s biography-obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer > with a titillating past that only enhanced the value of the work. > After the revelation, the company took the position that Ms. Albert > had used the JT LeRoy ?brand? ? the same that had attracted them ? > as a celebrity magnet to draw attention to her books. > > Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT > LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain- > Samuel Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort > of ?respirator? for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, > survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. > > The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract > and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet > been determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount > could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote?s president, said in an interview > yesterday that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back > than about sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. > > ?I?m kind of a person of principle,? he said. ?Not kind of ? I am. > I wasn?t willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no > apology or reasonable explanation.? > > He said he would not seek to make a movie out of ?Sarah? as he had > wished, calling the project ?too sullied and emotionally charged,? > although he added, ?Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if > they wanted.? He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made > a fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the > judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to > her past and future books. > > Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who > ?pulled off something quite startling ? all these intelligent > people were taken in.? > > It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. > > ?She?s liberated, in a way. It?s quite wonderful.? > > > "I don't know what music is." > --Ludvig van Beethoven > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james Sat Jun 23 10:47:11 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:47:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60706230747h61cbdca8gb3346d88c3a8889@mail.gmail.com> Why should you have guessed? - Jim-Nothing-Like-Blunt-Questions-Cervantes On 6/23/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > I should have guessed, but have learned since posting this NYT > article, that Laura Albert was once (back when she was in her > early 20s) a student of my wife's at the New School. > > Hal > > "Please stand clear of the closing doors." > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jun 22, 2007, at 10:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life > > of its own. > > > > NYT > > > > June 23, 2007 > > > > Jury Finds Writer's Alias Was Fraud > > > > By ALAN FEUER > > JT LeRoy, the authorial "other" whom the writer Laura Albert > > employed as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, > > was found yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a > > fictional creation, but a fraud. > > > > Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to > > have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in > > part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the > > verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, > > saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury's decision > > would not fall her way. > > > > "I knew it this morning," Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a > > tiny typewriter pendant with a legend that read "Write Hard, Die > > Free." "I already went through it." > > > > As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. > > Albert to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in > > 2003, signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature > > film of his novel "Sarah," a tale of filial love and prostitution > > set among the "lot lizards" of a West Virginia truck stop. > > > > When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been > > written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for > > fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was > > seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers' > > fees as well. > > > > Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, > > the broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and > > celebrity aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish > > canvas of the press. After "Sarah" thrust the writer into stardom > > in 2000, JT LeRoy became the damaged darling of the art house set, > > a street waif and supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, > > usually by way of telephone or e-mail (he was "famously > > reclusive"), befriended the likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder > > ? at least until his startling existence as a fiction was revealed. > > > > All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise > > obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty > > fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and > > famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave > > interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes > > paid her former boyfriend's half-sister to appear in disguise as JT > > LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international > > film festival at Cannes. > > > > It was deceptions like these that Antidote's lawyers said > > constituted her fraud. Yet even though the company's lawyers > > assailed her in court as a trickster and wily master of self- > > promotion, they ? and their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte ? admitted a > > grudging admiration for her writing talents, and for her performance. > > > > They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon > > apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her > > rather gruesome history ? a litany of adolescent trauma that > > included sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of > > telephone therapy in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the > > adopted persona of a teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to > > calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, was a sort of early incarnation of the > > full-blown alter ego that would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. > > > > Among the various battles waged at the trial ? art versus commerce, > > truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination ? it was > > perhaps the battle over JT LeRoy's purpose in the world that was > > most in dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was > > revealed last year in a series of newspaper articles, the > > production team at Antidote considered him that rare commodity in > > today's biography-obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer > > with a titillating past that only enhanced the value of the work. > > After the revelation, the company took the position that Ms. Albert > > had used the JT LeRoy "brand" ? the same that had attracted them ? > > as a celebrity magnet to draw attention to her books. > > > > Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT > > LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain- > > Samuel Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort > > of "respirator" for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, > > survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. > > > > The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract > > and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet > > been determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount > > could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > > > Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote's president, said in an interview > > yesterday that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back > > than about sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. > > > > "I'm kind of a person of principle," he said. "Not kind of ? I am. > > I wasn't willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no > > apology or reasonable explanation." > > > > He said he would not seek to make a movie out of "Sarah" as he had > > wished, calling the project "too sullied and emotionally charged," > > although he added, "Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if > > they wanted." He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made > > a fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the > > judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to > > her past and future books. > > > > Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who > > "pulled off something quite startling ? all these intelligent > > people were taken in." > > > > It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. > > > > "She's liberated, in a way. It's quite wonderful." > > > > > > "I don't know what music is." > > --Ludvig van Beethoven > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From halvard Sat Jun 23 11:23:12 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:23:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume In-Reply-To: <648208b60706230747h61cbdca8gb3346d88c3a8889@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60706230747h61cbdca8gb3346d88c3a8889@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <260A41E4-5171-4574-8E9B-52ED3F21588B@earthlink.net> Oh, it's just the sort of pickle Lynda and her students like to get into sometimes. Hal "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts." --Edmund Burke Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 23, 2007, at 9:47 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Why should you have guessed? > > - Jim-Nothing-Like-Blunt-Questions-Cervantes > > On 6/23/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> I should have guessed, but have learned since posting this NYT >> article, that Laura Albert was once (back when she was in her >> early 20s) a student of my wife's at the New School. >> >> Hal >> >> "Please stand clear of the closing doors." >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> On Jun 22, 2007, at 10:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> >> > Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life >> > of its own. >> > >> > NYT >> > >> > June 23, 2007 >> > >> > Jury Finds Writer's Alias Was Fraud >> > >> > By ALAN FEUER >> > JT LeRoy, the authorial "other" whom the writer Laura Albert >> > employed as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, >> > was found yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a >> > fictional creation, but a fraud. >> > >> > Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to >> > have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in >> > part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the >> > verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, >> > saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury's decision >> > would not fall her way. >> > >> > "I knew it this morning," Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a >> > tiny typewriter pendant with a legend that read "Write Hard, Die >> > Free." "I already went through it." >> > >> > As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. >> > Albert to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in >> > 2003, signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature >> > film of his novel "Sarah," a tale of filial love and prostitution >> > set among the "lot lizards" of a West Virginia truck stop. >> > >> > When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been >> > written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for >> > fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was >> > seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers' >> > fees as well. >> > >> > Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, >> > the broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and >> > celebrity aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish >> > canvas of the press. After "Sarah" thrust the writer into stardom >> > in 2000, JT LeRoy became the damaged darling of the art house set, >> > a street waif and supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, >> > usually by way of telephone or e-mail (he was "famously >> > reclusive"), befriended the likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder >> > ? at least until his startling existence as a fiction was revealed. >> > >> > All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise >> > obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty >> > fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and >> > famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave >> > interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes >> > paid her former boyfriend's half-sister to appear in disguise as JT >> > LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international >> > film festival at Cannes. >> > >> > It was deceptions like these that Antidote's lawyers said >> > constituted her fraud. Yet even though the company's lawyers >> > assailed her in court as a trickster and wily master of self- >> > promotion, they ? and their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte ? admitted a >> > grudging admiration for her writing talents, and for her >> performance. >> > >> > They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon >> > apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her >> > rather gruesome history ? a litany of adolescent trauma that >> > included sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of >> > telephone therapy in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the >> > adopted persona of a teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to >> > calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, was a sort of early incarnation of the >> > full-blown alter ego that would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. >> > >> > Among the various battles waged at the trial ? art versus commerce, >> > truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination ? it was >> > perhaps the battle over JT LeRoy's purpose in the world that was >> > most in dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was >> > revealed last year in a series of newspaper articles, the >> > production team at Antidote considered him that rare commodity in >> > today's biography-obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer >> > with a titillating past that only enhanced the value of the work. >> > After the revelation, the company took the position that Ms. Albert >> > had used the JT LeRoy "brand" ? the same that had attracted them ? >> > as a celebrity magnet to draw attention to her books. >> > >> > Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT >> > LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain- >> > Samuel Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort >> > of "respirator" for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, >> > survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. >> > >> > The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract >> > and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet >> > been determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount >> > could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> > >> > Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote's president, said in an interview >> > yesterday that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back >> > than about sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. >> > >> > "I'm kind of a person of principle," he said. "Not kind of ? I am. >> > I wasn't willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no >> > apology or reasonable explanation." >> > >> > He said he would not seek to make a movie out of "Sarah" as he had >> > wished, calling the project "too sullied and emotionally charged," >> > although he added, "Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if >> > they wanted." He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made >> > a fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the >> > judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to >> > her past and future books. >> > >> > Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who >> > "pulled off something quite startling ? all these intelligent >> > people were taken in." >> > >> > It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. >> > >> > "She's liberated, in a way. It's quite wonderful." >> > >> > >> > "I don't know what music is." >> > --Ludvig van Beethoven >> > >> > Halvard Johnson >> > ================ >> > halvard at earthlink.net >> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> > http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 23 12:44:43 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:44:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume References: Message-ID: <001901c7b5b5$cd837140$d2ab3452@ANNY> What a story! She will never be able to pay, the guy will lay claim on her books, and that is how she might become famous. Quite the harsh way round, but then, are there any simpler ways? From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 4:44 PM >I should have guessed, but have learned since posting this NYT > article, that Laura Albert was once (back when she was in her > early 20s) a student of my wife's at the New School. > > Hal > > "Please stand clear of the closing doors." > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > On Jun 22, 2007, at 10:00 PM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life >> of its own. >> >> NYT >> >> June 23, 2007 >> >> Jury Finds Writer?s Alias Was Fraud >> >> By ALAN FEUER >> JT LeRoy, the authorial ?other? whom the writer Laura Albert employed as >> her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, was found >> yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a fictional creation, >> but a fraud. >> >> Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to have >> strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in part by >> signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the verdict was >> announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, saying she had >> somehow known hours before that the jury?s decision would not fall her >> way. >> >> ?I knew it this morning,? Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a tiny >> typewriter pendant with a legend that read ?Write Hard, Die Free.? ?I >> already went through it.? >> >> As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. Albert to >> pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in 2003, signed an >> option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature film of his novel >> ?Sarah,? a tale of filial love and prostitution set among the ?lot >> lizards? of a West Virginia truck stop. >> >> When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been written >> by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for fraud and >> breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was seeking not only >> the option money back, but damages and lawyers? fees as well. >> >> Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, the >> broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and celebrity aroma, >> played out on the larger and much more garish canvas of the press. After >> ?Sarah? thrust the writer into stardom in 2000, JT LeRoy became the >> damaged darling of the art house set, a street waif and supposed son of >> a truck stop prostitute who, usually by way of telephone or e-mail (he >> was ?famously reclusive?), befriended the likes of Courtney Love and >> Winona Ryder ? at least until his startling existence as a fiction was >> revealed. >> >> All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise >> obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty >> fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and >> famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave >> interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes paid >> her former boyfriend?s half-sister to appear in disguise as JT LeRoy in >> the rarefied air of literary readings or the international film festival >> at Cannes. >> >> It was deceptions like these that Antidote?s lawyers said constituted >> her fraud. Yet even though the company?s lawyers assailed her in court >> as a trickster and wily master of self- promotion, they ? and their >> client, Mr. Levy-Hinte ? admitted a grudging admiration for her writing >> talents, and for her performance. >> >> They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon >> apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her >> rather gruesome history ? a litany of adolescent trauma that included >> sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of telephone therapy in >> which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the adopted persona of a teenage >> boy. That boy, whom she took to calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, was a sort >> of early incarnation of the full-blown alter ego that would eventually >> evolve into JT LeRoy. >> >> Among the various battles waged at the trial ? art versus commerce, >> truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination ? it was perhaps >> the battle over JT LeRoy?s purpose in the world that was most in >> dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was revealed last >> year in a series of newspaper articles, the production team at Antidote >> considered him that rare commodity in today?s biography-obsessed >> entertainment world: a gifted writer with a titillating past that only >> enhanced the value of the work. After the revelation, the company took >> the position that Ms. Albert had used the JT LeRoy ?brand? ? the same >> that had attracted them ? as a celebrity magnet to draw attention to her >> books. >> >> Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT LeRoy >> was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain- Samuel Clemens >> mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort of ?respirator? for >> her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, survival apparatus that >> permitted her to breathe. >> >> The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract and >> damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet been >> determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount could be >> hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> >> Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote?s president, said in an interview yesterday >> that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back than about >> sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. >> >> ?I?m kind of a person of principle,? he said. ?Not kind of ? I am. I >> wasn?t willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no apology or >> reasonable explanation.? >> >> He said he would not seek to make a movie out of ?Sarah? as he had >> wished, calling the project ?too sullied and emotionally charged,? >> although he added, ?Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if they >> wanted.? He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made a fortune >> from her literary works, could not afford to pay the judgment, he might >> have to consider laying claim to the rights to her past and future >> books. >> >> Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who ?pulled >> off something quite startling ? all these intelligent people were taken >> in.? >> >> It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. >> >> ?She?s liberated, in a way. It?s quite wonderful.? >> >> >> "I don't know what music is." >> --Ludvig van Beethoven >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Sat Jun 23 12:59:41 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:59:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001501c7b5b7$ea890780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Wait til they realize we're all inventions! Then we'll _never_ get out of the courts. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:00 PM To: NewPoetry: & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life of its own. NYT June 23, 2007 Jury Finds Writer's Alias Was Fraud By ALAN FEUER JT LeRoy, the authorial "other" whom the writer Laura Albert employed as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, was found yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a fictional creation, but a fraud. Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury's decision would not fall her way. "I knew it this morning," Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a tiny typewriter pendant with a legend that read "Write Hard, Die Free." "I already went through it." As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. Albert to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in 2003, signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature film of his novel "Sarah," a tale of filial love and prostitution set among the "lot lizards" of a West Virginia truck stop. When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers' fees as well. Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, the broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and celebrity aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish canvas of the press. After "Sarah" thrust the writer into stardom in 2000, JT LeRoy became the damaged darling of the art house set, a street waif and supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, usually by way of telephone or e-mail (he was "famously reclusive"), befriended the likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder - at least until his startling existence as a fiction was revealed. All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes paid her former boyfriend's half-sister to appear in disguise as JT LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international film festival at Cannes. It was deceptions like these that Antidote's lawyers said constituted her fraud. Yet even though the company's lawyers assailed her in court as a trickster and wily master of self-promotion, they - and their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte - admitted a grudging admiration for her writing talents, and for her performance. They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her rather gruesome history - a litany of adolescent trauma that included sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of telephone therapy in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the adopted persona of a teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, was a sort of early incarnation of the full-blown alter ego that would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. Among the various battles waged at the trial - art versus commerce, truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination - it was perhaps the battle over JT LeRoy's purpose in the world that was most in dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was revealed last year in a series of newspaper articles, the production team at Antidote considered him that rare commodity in today's biography- obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer with a titillating past that only enhanced the value of the work. After the revelation, the company took the position that Ms. Albert had used the JT LeRoy "brand" - the same that had attracted them - as a celebrity magnet to draw attention to her books. Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain-Samuel Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort of "respirator" for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet been determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote's president, said in an interview yesterday that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back than about sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. "I'm kind of a person of principle," he said. "Not kind of - I am. I wasn't willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no apology or reasonable explanation." He said he would not seek to make a movie out of "Sarah" as he had wished, calling the project "too sullied and emotionally charged," although he added, "Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if they wanted." He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made a fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to her past and future books. Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who "pulled off something quite startling - all these intelligent people were taken in." It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. "She's liberated, in a way. It's quite wonderful." "I don't know what music is." --Ludvig van Beethoven Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 23 13:11:40 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:11:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Meritage Press References: <001901c7b5b5$cd837140$d2ab3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <003d01c7b5b9$914601d0$d2ab3452@ANNY> MERITAGE PRESS ANNOUNCEMENT A Special Release Offer For: FRAGILE REPLACEMENTS Poems by William Allegrezza ISBN-10: 0-9794119-0-4 ISBN-13: 978-0-9794119-0-8 Release date: Summer 2007 Distributors: Small Press Distribution, Amazon.com & www.MeritagePress.com For more info: MeritagePress at aol.com Meritage Press is delighted to announce the release of FRAGILE REPLACEMENTS, William Allegrezza's long-awaited poetry collection. FRAGILE REPLACEMENTS explores the way we live through language, experiencing births, deaths, and rebirths through it, but the book also examines how our language is filled, controlled, and crafted by our societies. Two long poems surround and provide context for reading shorter lyrics in the middle section. ABOUT THE AUTHOR: William Allegrezza teaches and writes from his base in Chicago. His poems, articles and reviews have been published in several countries including the U.S., Holland, the Czech Republic and Australia, as well as in several online journals. His chapbooks, e-books and books include Lingo, The Vicious Bunny Translations, Covering Over, Temporal Nomads, Ladders in July, Ishmael Among the Bushes, and In The Weaver's Valley. He is the editor of Moria Poetry (moriapoetry.com), a journal dedicated to experimental poetry and poetics, and the editor-in-chief of Cracked Slab Books ( crackedslabbooks.com). ADVANCE WORDS on FRAGILE REPLACEMENTS: Allegrezza's poetic canvas-of-choice is the lyric, and his lyrical investigations frequently appear to evolve or grow. . . from an imagination fueled by found language fragments and theory-singed excesses. This particular poet's capacity to create resonant, "deep" images is extraordinary. --Clayton Couch There is something about the flow in Allegrezza's poems that I quite like, the way they simply move one step at a time down the page almost intuitively. Really, it's the leaps between lines that impress; almost ghazal-like down the page, jumping from line to line to line in seeming disconnect. --rob mclennan ************************* SPECIAL RELEASE OFFER: Meritage Press is pleased to offer a Release Special through August 31, 2007. For $13.00, you can obtain a copy of FRAGILE REPLACEMENTS?a reduced rate from the book's retail price of $16.00?plus free shipping/handling (an approximate $4.00 value) to U.S. addresses. Just send a $13.00 check made out to "Meritage Press" to: Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Road St. Helena, CA 94574 For international orders, please contact us through MeritagePress at aol.com ************************* ALSO FORTHCOMING IN 2007 FROM MERITAGE PRESS: COMPLICATIONS by Garrett Caples PRAU by Jean Vengua (Filamore Tabios, Sr. Poetry Memorial Prize) And a new series of "Tiny Books" measuring 1 3/4 x 1 3/4" inaugurated by ALL ALONE AGAIN by Dan Waber, followed by STEPS: A NOTEBOOK by Tom Beckett. Meritage Press is a multidisciplinary literary and arts published based in St. Helena and San Francisco, CA. Our website is at _http://www.meritagepress.com_ (http://www.meritagepress.com/) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Sat Jun 23 13:15:21 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:15:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <005e01c7b536$65356cd0$85fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000001c7b5ba$1ab51cd0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Yet the 1911 Britannica is a wonder. Often good writing. Height of Victorian scholarship. Entries by experts. And the world poised on the cusp of the modern, but looking at the beginnings of war. Exciting time. And then it is also the site of luminous curiosities. It contains a wonder at the world which always seems to outpace those who would are trying to contain it (in entries). And then to compare its entries with those in the 1914 supplement is to come across wonderful puzzles. I.e., the entry on "evolution" in 1911 denigrated Darwin's role in it as a main scientific discovery claiming that a number of philosophers had presented its major concepts long before. But in the 1914 edition, Darwin is accorded his due and, if I remember correctly, "natural selection," seen as central to evolution and underpinning the study of biology. I wonder what happened. Anyway, a note in Britannica's favor. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 8:32 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms >> maybe, maybe not. >> >> If you don't play, don't fuckin complain. > > I'm not complaining, merely stating the fact that Wikipoo is worthless. Correction: not worthless, just no better than the Britannica. (And I did play with it for a while--great idea that went blooey.) > --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james Sat Jun 23 15:38:52 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:38:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume In-Reply-To: <001501c7b5b7$ea890780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <001501c7b5b7$ea890780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60706231238j1baf3774jd5a34ef8c93d59ac@mail.gmail.com> Dang. I knew someone would blab! - Jim p.s. - Prosecutors: Skip fox has been using the name Halvard Johnson On 6/23/07, Skip Fox wrote: > Wait til they realize we're all inventions! Then we'll _never_ get out of > the courts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:00 PM > To: NewPoetry: & Views > Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume > > Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life > of its own. > > NYT > > June 23, 2007 > > Jury Finds Writer's Alias Was Fraud > > By ALAN FEUER > JT LeRoy, the authorial "other" whom the writer Laura Albert employed > as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, was found > yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a fictional creation, > but a fraud. > > Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to > have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in > part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the > verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, > saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury's decision > would not fall her way. > > "I knew it this morning," Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a tiny > typewriter pendant with a legend that read "Write Hard, Die Free." "I > already went through it." > > As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. Albert > to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in 2003, > signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature film of his > novel "Sarah," a tale of filial love and prostitution set among the > "lot lizards" of a West Virginia truck stop. > > When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been > written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for > fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was > seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers' fees > as well. > > Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, the > broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and celebrity > aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish canvas of the > press. After "Sarah" thrust the writer into stardom in 2000, JT LeRoy > became the damaged darling of the art house set, a street waif and > supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, usually by way of > telephone or e-mail (he was "famously reclusive"), befriended the > likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder - at least until his > startling existence as a fiction was revealed. > > All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise > obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty > fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and > famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave > interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes > paid her former boyfriend's half-sister to appear in disguise as JT > LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international > film festival at Cannes. > > It was deceptions like these that Antidote's lawyers said constituted > her fraud. Yet even though the company's lawyers assailed her in > court as a trickster and wily master of self-promotion, they - and > their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte - admitted a grudging admiration for her > writing talents, and for her performance. > > They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon > apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her > rather gruesome history - a litany of adolescent trauma that included > sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of telephone therapy > in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the adopted persona of a > teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, > was a sort of early incarnation of the full-blown alter ego that > would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. > > Among the various battles waged at the trial - art versus commerce, > truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination - it was perhaps > the battle over JT LeRoy's purpose in the world that was most in > dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was revealed > last year in a series of newspaper articles, the production team at > Antidote considered him that rare commodity in today's biography- > obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer with a titillating past > that only enhanced the value of the work. After the revelation, the > company took the position that Ms. Albert had used the JT LeRoy > "brand" - the same that had attracted them - as a celebrity magnet to > draw attention to her books. > > Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT > LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain-Samuel > Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort of > "respirator" for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, > survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. > > The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract > and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet been > determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount could > be hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote's president, said in an interview yesterday > that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back than about > sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. > > "I'm kind of a person of principle," he said. "Not kind of - I am. I > wasn't willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no apology or > reasonable explanation." > > He said he would not seek to make a movie out of "Sarah" as he had > wished, calling the project "too sullied and emotionally charged," > although he added, "Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if > they wanted." He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made a > fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the > judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to her > past and future books. > > Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who > "pulled off something quite startling - all these intelligent people > were taken in." > > It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. > > "She's liberated, in a way. It's quite wonderful." > > > "I don't know what music is." > --Ludvig van Beethoven > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 23 15:48:15 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:48:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume References: <001501c7b5b7$ea890780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <648208b60706231238j1baf3774jd5a34ef8c93d59ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002101c7b5cf$70b3ae70$d2ab3452@ANNY> I can support Jim's statement as a witness, (due piccioni con una fava : two pigeons with one broad bean (Vicia faba)) From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 9:38 PM > Dang. I knew someone would blab! > > - Jim > > p.s. - Prosecutors: Skip fox has been using the name Halvard Johnson > > On 6/23/07, Skip Fox wrote: >> Wait til they realize we're all inventions! Then we'll _never_ get out of >> the courts. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:00 PM >> To: NewPoetry: & Views >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Drop that nom de plume >> >> Drop that nom de plume before it takes on a life >> of its own. >> >> NYT >> >> June 23, 2007 >> >> Jury Finds Writer's Alias Was Fraud >> >> By ALAN FEUER >> JT LeRoy, the authorial "other" whom the writer Laura Albert employed >> as her alter ego and self-protective proxy in the world, was found >> yesterday by a jury in Manhattan to be not just a fictional creation, >> but a fraud. >> >> Ms. Albert, 41, was found by the jury in Federal District Court to >> have strayed beyond the normal limits of pseudonymous invention, in >> part by signing a movie contract using her nom de plume. After the >> verdict was announced, she stood with friends in the courtroom, >> saying she had somehow known hours before that the jury's decision >> would not fall her way. >> >> "I knew it this morning," Ms. Albert said, wearing at her neck a tiny >> typewriter pendant with a legend that read "Write Hard, Die Free." "I >> already went through it." >> >> As part of its verdict in the civil case, the jury ordered Ms. Albert >> to pay $116,500 to Antidote International Films, which, in 2003, >> signed an option contract with JT LeRoy to make a feature film of his >> novel "Sarah," a tale of filial love and prostitution set among the >> "lot lizards" of a West Virginia truck stop. >> >> When Antidote learned last year that the book had, in fact, been >> written by Ms. Albert, its president, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, sued for >> fraud and breach of contract, saying he had been duped and was >> seeking not only the option money back, but damages and lawyers' fees >> as well. >> >> Long before this somewhat narrow legal matter reached the courts, the >> broader story of JT LeRoy, with its agitprop allure and celebrity >> aroma, played out on the larger and much more garish canvas of the >> press. After "Sarah" thrust the writer into stardom in 2000, JT LeRoy >> became the damaged darling of the art house set, a street waif and >> supposed son of a truck stop prostitute who, usually by way of >> telephone or e-mail (he was "famously reclusive"), befriended the >> likes of Courtney Love and Winona Ryder - at least until his >> startling existence as a fiction was revealed. >> >> All the while, of course, it was Ms. Albert, a mother and otherwise >> obscure novelist from Brooklyn Heights, who was spinning gritty >> fantasies of drug addiction and Appalachian misery for the rich and >> famous names at the other end of the keyboard or the line. She gave >> interviews in a twangy accent to Terry Gross on NPR and sometimes >> paid her former boyfriend's half-sister to appear in disguise as JT >> LeRoy in the rarefied air of literary readings or the international >> film festival at Cannes. >> >> It was deceptions like these that Antidote's lawyers said constituted >> her fraud. Yet even though the company's lawyers assailed her in >> court as a trickster and wily master of self-promotion, they - and >> their client, Mr. Levy-Hinte - admitted a grudging admiration for her >> writing talents, and for her performance. >> >> They also evinced a quiet sympathy for Ms. Albert, for it was soon >> apparent that the eight-day trial would include testimony about her >> rather gruesome history - a litany of adolescent trauma that included >> sexual abuse, institutionalization and 13 years of telephone therapy >> in which she spoke to her psychiatrist in the adopted persona of a >> teenage boy. That boy, whom she took to calling Jeremy or Jeremiah, >> was a sort of early incarnation of the full-blown alter ego that >> would eventually evolve into JT LeRoy. >> >> Among the various battles waged at the trial - art versus commerce, >> truth versus fiction, reality versus the imagination - it was perhaps >> the battle over JT LeRoy's purpose in the world that was most in >> dispute. Before his identity (or, rather, nonidentity) was revealed >> last year in a series of newspaper articles, the production team at >> Antidote considered him that rare commodity in today's biography- >> obsessed entertainment world: a gifted writer with a titillating past >> that only enhanced the value of the work. After the revelation, the >> company took the position that Ms. Albert had used the JT LeRoy >> "brand" - the same that had attracted them - as a celebrity magnet to >> draw attention to her books. >> >> Ms. Albert herself, in testimony from the stand, suggested that JT >> LeRoy was far more than a pseudonym in the classic Mark Twain-Samuel >> Clemens mold. She offered the idea that JT LeRoy was a sort of >> "respirator" for her inner life: an imaginary, though necessary, >> survival apparatus that permitted her to breathe. >> >> The $116,500 judgment against Ms. Albert covers the option contract >> and damages to Antidote, but not legal fees, which have not yet been >> determined. If she is ordered to pay those as well, the amount could >> be hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> >> Mr. Levy-Hinte, Antidote's president, said in an interview yesterday >> that the lawsuit was less about getting his money back than about >> sticking up for fair dealing and telling the truth. >> >> "I'm kind of a person of principle," he said. "Not kind of - I am. I >> wasn't willing to simply walk away and take a loss with no apology or >> reasonable explanation." >> >> He said he would not seek to make a movie out of "Sarah" as he had >> wished, calling the project "too sullied and emotionally charged," >> although he added, "Somebody could make a good movie out of it, if >> they wanted." He went on to say that if Ms. Albert, who never made a >> fortune from her literary works, could not afford to pay the >> judgment, he might have to consider laying claim to the rights to her >> past and future books. >> >> Perhaps surprisingly, he said he had respect for Ms. Albert, who >> "pulled off something quite startling - all these intelligent people >> were taken in." >> >> It was a blessing in disguise, he said. The alter ego was gone. >> >> "She's liberated, in a way. It's quite wonderful." >> >> >> "I don't know what music is." >> --Ludvig van Beethoven >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Sun Jun 24 10:27:18 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:27:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ScientificJournals Message-ID: <467E7F46.3060405@opus40.org> Anyone know anything about scientificjournals.org? Or has anyone else received an "Invitation to join its Editorial Review Board"? It sounds a little like a journal equivalent of a diploma mill, but perhaps I'm overly suspicious. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 24 11:43:10 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:43:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ScientificJournals References: <467E7F46.3060405@opus40.org> Message-ID: <003601c7b676$5e9afc00$3aa83852@ANNY> Congratulations Tad, look at the editorial board: Charles Morgan Yale University Associate Clinical Professor S. Eslamian Princeton University Professor of Civil & Environmental Eng. Jianjun Sun, Scientist Harvard University Medical School Microbiology and Molecular Genetics We will have to call you : Mr Dr PhD WX High Highness Richards, Tad (no more moles around) From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] ScientificJournals > Anyone know anything about scientificjournals.org? Or has anyone else > received an "Invitation to join its Editorial Review Board"? It sounds a > little like a journal equivalent of a diploma mill, but perhaps I'm > overly suspicious. > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Opus40-01 Sun Jun 24 12:16:08 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:16:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ScientificJournals In-Reply-To: <003601c7b676$5e9afc00$3aa83852@ANNY> References: <467E7F46.3060405@opus40.org> <003601c7b676$5e9afc00$3aa83852@ANNY> Message-ID: <467E98C8.1070703@opus40.org> I belong to that Groucho Marx school of philosophy that never quite trusts any club that would have me as a member. But hey, while tooting my own horn, I have a poem accepted for the next issue of Cortland Review. Anny Ballardini wrote: > Congratulations Tad, > > look at the editorial board: > > Charles Morgan > Yale University > Associate Clinical Professor > > S. Eslamian > Princeton University > Professor of Civil & Environmental Eng. > > Jianjun Sun, Scientist > Harvard University Medical School > Microbiology and Molecular Genetics > > We will have to call you : Mr Dr PhD WX High Highness Richards, Tad > (no more moles around) > > > From: "TheOldMole" > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 4:27 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] ScientificJournals > > >> Anyone know anything about scientificjournals.org? Or has anyone else >> received an "Invitation to join its Editorial Review Board"? It >> sounds a little like a journal equivalent of a diploma mill, but >> perhaps I'm overly suspicious. >> >> -- >> Tad Richards >> http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ >> http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 24 14:33:59 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:33:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ScientificJournals References: <467E7F46.3060405@opus40.org> <003601c7b676$5e9afc00$3aa83852@ANNY> <467E98C8.1070703@opus40.org> Message-ID: <006c01c7b68e$3b885470$3aa83852@ANNY> It is your Day, Tad, congratulations, again! From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 6:16 PM >I belong to that Groucho Marx school of philosophy that never quite > trusts any club that would have me as a member. > > But hey, while tooting my own horn, I have a poem accepted for the next > issue of Cortland Review. > From chan_jt Mon Jun 25 00:13:58 2007 From: chan_jt (JT Chan) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 04:13:58 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of Poetry Sz: demystifying mental illness Message-ID: Issue 23 features new poetry by: Matthew Burkett Julie Clark Deidre Elizabeth Mario Melendez Patrick Frank http://poetrysz.blogspot.com Submissions for the next issue is now open. Send 4-6 poems, and a short bio, in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Please read the submission guidelines before submitting. thank you. regards J Chan editor _________________________________________________________________ Live Search delivers results the way you like it. Try live.com now! http://www.live.com From jforjames Mon Jun 25 16:25:03 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:25:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Affrilachian poetry Message-ID: <8C9857E0C09EDBE-12D8-22C4@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> Monday, June 25, 2007? E-mail this? |? Print page ? ? Affrilachian poet starts PLUCK! magazine New arts magazine is labor of love By Larry Muhammad lmuhammad at courier-journal.com The Courier-Journal When poet Frank X Walker won a $75,000 literary prize from the esteemed Lannan Foundation in 2005, he vowed to use some of the money to expose other emerging writers of color. Now the Danville, Ky., native who coined the term "Affrilachian" for Appalachian residents of African descent -- the word is now in the New Oxford American Dictionary -- has launched PLUCK!, an arts and culture magazine that explores the black aesthetic of the 12-state Appalachian region. "Starting this journal is just an extension of continuing to celebrate the true diversity and artistic and literary talent in this region," said Walker, a visiting professor of writing, rhetoric and communications at Transylvania University in Lexington. "The name, PLUCK!, is an old word that means to summon up one's courage, to rouse one's spirits and have resolve in the face of difficulties. I felt like that summed up my vision for the journal." ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jun 25 16:53:01 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:53:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Affrilachian poetry In-Reply-To: <8C9857E0C09EDBE-12D8-22C4@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9857E0C09EDBE-12D8-22C4@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C98581F3E99B6E-12D8-2484@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> resent with URL... http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070625/FEATURES/706250325 -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 4:25 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Affrilachian poetry Monday, June 25, 2007? E-mail this? |? Print page ? ? Affrilachian poet starts PLUCK! magazine New arts magazine is labor of love By Larry Muhammad lmuhammad at courier-journal.com The Courier-Journal ? When poet Frank X Walker won a $75,000 literary prize from the esteemed Lannan Foundation in 2005, he vowed to use some of the money to expose other emerging writers of color. Now the Danville, Ky., native who coined the term "Affrilachian" for Appalachian residents of African descent -- the word is now in the New Oxford American Dictionary -- has launched PLUCK!, an arts and culture magazine that explores the black aesthetic of the 12-state Appalachian region. "Starting this journal is just an extension of continuing to celebrate the true diversity and artistic and literary talent in this region," said Walker, a visiting professor of writing, rhetoric and communications at Transylvania University in Lexington. "The name, PLUCK!, is an old word that means to summon up one's courage, to rouse one's spirits and have resolve in the face of difficulties. I felt like that summed up my vision for the journal." ? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jun 25 16:57:29 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:57:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FULCRUM's New MySpace Page & Blog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C98582939D1A0E-12D8-24C0@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Fulcrum Annual Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:37 pm Subject: FULCRUM's New MySpace Page & Blog FULCRUM: an annual of poetry and aesthetics now has a brand-new profile and blog on MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/fulcrumpoetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jun 25 17:04:23 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:04:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Affrilachian poetry In-Reply-To: <8C9857E0C09EDBE-12D8-22C4@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9857E0C09EDBE-12D8-22C4@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Affrilachian Spring! From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 25 17:59:43 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:59:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? Message-ID: <731bb17a0706251459m556bd29bx4ea75ec60e424c5c@mail.gmail.com> "There is absolutely no question in poetry of one person's transmitting to another something intelligible that is going on in his mind. It is a question of creating in the latter a state whose expression is precisely and uniquely that which communicates it to him. Whatever image or emotion is formed in the amateur of poems, it is valid and sufficient if it produces in him this reciprocal relation between word-cause and word-effect. There result is that the reader enjoys a very great freedom in regard to ideas, a freedom analogous to that which one recognizes in the case of the hearer of music, though not so intensive." --Paul Valery (qtd in Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle) Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jun 25 20:55:34 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:55:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706251459m556bd29bx4ea75ec60e424c5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706251459m556bd29bx4ea75ec60e424c5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C985A3D66FF2B7-13C8-2BF9@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Jeff, is this?the?translation or a typo? I want to read "armature" for?'amateur.'? Finnegan Whatever image or emotion is formed in the amateur of poems, -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 5:59 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? "There is absolutely no question in poetry of one person's transmitting to another something intelligible that is going on in his mind.? It is a question of creating in the latter a state whose expression is precisely and uniquely that which communicates it to him.? Whatever image or emotion is formed in the amateur of poems, it is valid and sufficient if it produces in him this reciprocal relation between word-cause and word-effect.? There result is that the reader enjoys a very great freedom in regard to ideas, a freedom analogous to that which one recognizes in the case of the hearer of music, though not so intensive." --Paul Valery (qtd in Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle) Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers.??Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jun 25 21:07:59 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:07:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] kelly writers house podcasts In-Reply-To: <200706251724.l5PHORlh010817@writing.upenn.edu> References: <200706251724.l5PHORlh010817@writing.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8C985A5922A46E3-13C8-2C60@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> =From: Al Filreis To: Al Filreis Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 1:24 pm Subject: our podcasts Dear friends: We now produce two podcast series, and with pleasure I invite you to listen. The first is "Kelly Writers House Podcasts" and this program typically features a 15-20 minute excerpt from a reading or workshop or seminar held at the Writers House: http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/podcasts.html There are now 8 episodes of this program available. The second is "PENNsound Podcasts" and features a sampling of some of the extraordinary work from a large archive of downloadable recordings of poets reading their own poems: http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/podcasts.html There are currently 5 episodes of this program. More are on the way. Listeners can hear the programs by going to the web sites listed above. Or they can go to the ITunes Music Store and search for "Kelly Writers House" and "PENNsound" - and then subscribe to these programs. Those who subscribe will automatically have new shows downloaded and ready for us on an IPod or other mp3 player. Happy listening! --Al Filreis Al Filreis Kelly Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House Director, the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis writing.upenn.edu ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Tue Jun 26 00:55:25 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Dan Boiel Message-ID: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Work by Dan Boehl Winner of the Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award Paper Trade: ISBN 978-1-886350-69-4 28 pages, $6 These poems first appeared in: LIT, Poetry East and Redivider. Here is a scintillating sample: Cube, or 7 Complete Strangers of Widely Varying Personality Characteristics are Involuntarily Placed in an Endless Kafkaesque Maze Containing Deadly Traps Able to take only so much hip-hop and databases, I get some coffee and shoot-the-shit with the co-workers there. Times like this I think about that movie Cube. The best-worst movie I have ever seen, it?s about these people who wake up in a giant cube. Frantically they run around the cube?s identical rooms discovering each other and getting bloodbathed by unforeseen traps set by an unseen boss. It?s a test. If they work together they live. They fall into the regular character types: the soldier, the clown, the babe. Only the autistic guy lives. He actually likes the work of not getting bloodbathed. Tomorrow, I?ll be somebody's boss. But today I can confidently count on myself as someone I would like. ----------------------------- His chapbook can be ordered here--------------------------------------- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 26 02:26:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:26:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Charles Baudelaire Message-ID: <008001c7b7ba$fa99c510$d58e3052@ANNY> For the 150th anniversary of the publication of Les Fleurs du mal, by Charles Baudelaire. Ebook to download: http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/8flrm10h.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 26 03:40:58 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:40:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <00d801c7b7c5$58b166d0$d58e3052@ANNY> Poem: "Dutch Interior" by David Lehman. Used with permission of the author. Dutch Interior He liked the late afternoon light as it dimmed In the living room, and wouldn't switch on The electric lights until past eight o'clock. His wife complained, called him cheerless, but It wasn't a case of melancholy; he just liked The way things looked in air growing darker So gradually and imperceptibly that it seemed The very element in which we live. Every man And woman deserves one true moment of greatness And this was his, this Dutch interior, entered And possessed, so tranquil and yet so busy With details: the couple's shed clothes scattered On the backs of armchairs, the dog chasing a shoe, The wide open window, the late afternoon light. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 12:58:56 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:58:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dan Boiel In-Reply-To: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9862A6B4260C9-17C0-5074@webmail-dd01.sysops.aol.com> I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Baratier To: New Poetry Sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:55 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Dan Boiel Work by Dan Boehl Winner of the Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award Paper Trade: ISBN 978-1-886350-69-4 28 pages, $6 These poems first appeared in: LIT, Poetry East and Redivider. Here is a scintillating sample: Cube, or 7 Complete Strangers of Widely Varying Personality Characteristics are Involuntarily Placed in an Endless Kafkaesque Maze Containing Deadly Traps Able to take only so much hip-hop and databases, I get some coffee and shoot-the-shit with the co-workers there. Times like this I think about that movie Cube. The best-worst movie I have ever seen, it?s about these people who wake up in a giant cube. Frantically they run around the cube?s identical rooms discovering each other and getting bloodbathed by unforeseen traps set by an unseen boss. It?s a test. If they work together they live. They fall into the regular character types: the soldier, the clown, the babe. Only the autistic guy lives. He actually likes the work of not getting bloodbathed. Tomorrow, I?ll be somebody's boss. But today I can confidently count on myself as someone I would like. ? ----------------------------- His chapbook can be ordered ? here--------------------------------------- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry face="Arial Black" color=#fb0034 size=5> ? here--------------------------------------- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. 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URL: From Opus40-01 Tue Jun 26 13:43:28 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:43:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Charles Baudelaire In-Reply-To: <008001c7b7ba$fa99c510$d58e3052@ANNY> References: <008001c7b7ba$fa99c510$d58e3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <46815040.8080701@opus40.org> Everything you could possibly want to know about Les Fleurs du Mal -- http://fleursdumal.org/ Anny Ballardini wrote: > For the 150th anniversary of the publication of Les Fleurs du mal, by > Charles Baudelaire. > Ebook to download: http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/8flrm10h.htm > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd Tue Jun 26 13:56:14 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:56:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <8C9862A6B4260C9-17C0-5074@webmail-dd01.sysops.aol.com> References: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8C9862A6B4260C9-17C0-5074@webmail-dd01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... > Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe > we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. > Finnegan ======================= Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready to plug: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 14:29:57 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:29:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] pink poetry & capitalism's soft touch Message-ID: <8C9863721C3E0F5-11B0-5893@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21895413-12332,00.html?from=public_rss Red verse wins out Bernard Lane June 13, 2007 THANKS to a rather well known capitalist, Ariane Welch is off to the University of Cambridge to study a bunch of decidedly obscure communist poets. "I told myself that I had absolutely no chance of getting the (Bill Gates scholarship), because I figured it would go to people working on science, technology, medicine," she says. "It never crossed my mind that they would give it to someone working on communist poetry." But they did. Welch, from the University of Sydney, has secured one of the 50 Cambridge scholarships given each year to non-US citizens by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. She was pitching a PhD topic related to language and materialism when her supervisor, Julian Murphet in the English department at Sydney, suggested she look up the New York poet Louis Zukofsky. It was love at first sight. "I think initially it was that both language and politics are very explicit concerns in his poems," Welch says. In one poem, for example, the wooden saw horses of the New York proletariat go to work as the letter A. The shape and sound of words mattered to Zukofsky. His poetry is difficult. "He was a very, very neglected poet," she says. "People used to call him the poet's poet's poet. In general, Zukofsky was quite aware that he would never reach the masses." He eked out an impoverished existence between the wars with the occasional loan from the modernist ring master Ezra Pound: "the anti-Semite fascist supporting the communist Jew", as Welch puts it. But it's the communist wing of the modern movement that will preoccupy Welch in her PhD: Zukofsky, George Oppen, Charles Reznikoff and others. Welch sees their politics and poetics as indivisible. But what if they had lived in the Soviet Union, where the avant-garde became suspect not long after the Bolshevik putsch? "(Russian futurist poet Vladimir) Mayakovsky got away with it for a long time, (but) I think you can say it probably wouldn't have been a happy ending for them," she says. "Zukofsky was never a member of the Communist Party but he was certainly a fellow traveller. He broke early with Stalinism." ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Tue Jun 26 14:33:49 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:33:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? In-Reply-To: <8C985A3D66FF2B7-13C8-2BF9@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> References: <731bb17a0706251459m556bd29bx4ea75ec60e424c5c@mail.gmail.com> <8C985A3D66FF2B7-13C8-2BF9@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706261133t67561b48r811ca024189ddac9@mail.gmail.com> It's the translation, Jim. I'm reading a 1969 Charles Scribner edition of Axel's Castle. I thought it odd phrasing myself, but I'm not familiar with Valery. Perhaps it was a typo in the book's manuscript. Thoughts? Jeff On 6/25/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Jeff, is this the translation or a typo? I want to read "armature" > for 'amateur.' > Finnegan > > Whatever image or emotion is formed in the amateur of poems, > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 5:59 pm > Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? > > "There is absolutely no question in poetry of one person's transmitting to > another something intelligible that is going on in his mind. It is a > question of creating in the latter a state whose expression is precisely and > uniquely that which communicates it to him. Whatever image or emotion is > formed in the amateur of poems, it is valid and sufficient if it produces in > him this reciprocal relation between word-cause and word-effect. There > result is that the reader enjoys a very great freedom in regard to ideas, a > freedom analogous to that which one recognizes in the case of the hearer of > music, though not so intensive." > > --Paul Valery > > (qtd in Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle) > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.eduhttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 14:42:12 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:42:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706261133t67561b48r811ca024189ddac9@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706251459m556bd29bx4ea75ec60e424c5c@mail.gmail.com> <8C985A3D66FF2B7-13C8-2BF9@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> <731bb17a0706261133t67561b48r811ca024189ddac9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C98638D81F395F-11B0-5920@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Calling Alex Dickow...our resident French poetry expert. Do you have the quote in French? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 2:33 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? It's the translation, Jim. I'm reading a 1969 Charles Scribner edition of Axel's Castle. I thought it odd phrasing myself, but I'm not familiar with Valery. Perhaps it was a typo in the book's manuscript. Thoughts? Jeff On 6/25/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Jeff, is this?the?translation or a typo? I want to read "armature" for?'amateur.'? Finnegan Whatever image or emotion is formed in the amateur of poems, -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 5:59 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] What is Poetry? "There is absolutely no question in poetry of one person's transmitting to another something intelligible that is going on in his mind.? It is a question of creating in the latter a state whose expression is precisely and uniquely that which communicates it to him.? Whatever image or emotion is formed in the amateur of poems, it is valid and sufficient if it produces in him this reciprocal relation between word-cause and word-effect.? There result is that the reader enjoys a very great freedom in regard to ideas, a freedom analogous to that which one recognizes in the case of the hearer of music, though not so intensive." --Paul Valery (qtd in Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle) Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers.??Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com . _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers.??Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 14:45:48 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:45:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Case of the Lost Objective (Case) Message-ID: <8C9863958F94769-11B0-5943@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Bob G, note po and vizpo... --- Sheila Murphy wrote: > http://www.lulu.com/content/840898 >?? The Case of the Lost Objective (Case) > > by Sheila E. Murphy > > Description: > > This vibrant collection of new work by Sheila E. > Murphy encompasses both > lineated and prose poems. In addition, for the first > time, selected prints > of Murphy's visual poetry, some included in private > collections and in > gallery exhibitions, are presented in book format. > The range of work within > these pages attests to the versatility and depth of > this poet, and invites > being read aloud to reveal the full range of > perception and innovative use > of language. > Product Details: *Printed:* 84 pages, 6" x 9", > perfect binding, full-color > interior ink > *ISBN:* 978-0-9803-6592-4 > *Publisher:* Otoliths > *Copyright:* (c) 2007 by Sheila E. Murphy > ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 15:13:37 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:13:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: References: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8C9862A6B4260C9-17C0-5074@webmail-dd01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9863D3BA4D204-11B0-5ADC@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> David, How about Marcia Southwick? http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? The bigger question is: What gets the poem up?to the level of ultra; what?raises it above some random ramblings on/about insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality about?the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, and usually some humorous/askance takes on the various?things within the poet's?wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix diction. Is?'ultra talk'?always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour ultra talk? Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to really get itself revved up? Finnegan http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. Finnegan ======================= Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . .? ?Mark Halliday coined the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*.? I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting these days.? It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready to plug:?? http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html >From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others.? Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of essays, *Ultra Talk:? Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007).? I highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read in years.? One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 26 15:27:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:27:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Charles Baudelaire References: <008001c7b7ba$fa99c510$d58e3052@ANNY> <46815040.8080701@opus40.org> Message-ID: <004b01c7b828$141b8920$92ed064f@ANNY> Yes, I already knew that site but always nice to visit it again, thanks, Anny From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:43 PM > Everything you could possibly want to know about Les Fleurs du Mal -- > http://fleursdumal.org/ > > > Anny Ballardini wrote: >> For the 150th anniversary of the publication of Les Fleurs du mal, by >> Charles Baudelaire. >> Ebook to download: http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/8flrm10h.htm >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Tue Jun 26 15:59:34 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:59:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <8C9863D3BA4D204-11B0-5ADC@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c7b82c$8a566ca0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I realize that I've been referring to ultra-talk poetry as "slacker poetry," which signals my regard. But the predecessors mentioned, O'Hara and Koch, _are_ very interesting to me. As is Meyer and, of course, Coleridge. By the way, Coleridge's conversation poems usually fell into a structure referred to as the greater Romantic ode or the Romantic meditative ode by M. H. Abrams. Sounds like a boring place to look, but in fact it's particularly interesting in terms of what a semi-conversational poetry is now doing. The Romantic ode, was structured in a way that went from observation, to meditation, to observation, back into meditation where it culminates with a transcendent understanding. Coleridge at times would "go one further," by ending on a combination or fusion of perception and thought, as in "Frost at Midnight" which bends earth and thought into this new realization/understanding. The movements from observation to meditation were to go from relatively relaxed states of energy to heightened states. Thus you could graph the movement--observation to meditation to observation to meditation to a blend-as a double wave beginning in the first relaxed trough of observation with two peaks of meditative energy and ending (with "Frost at Midnight" at least) in a falling energy "blend" corresponding to the satisfaction of consummate understanding or a resolution. (I wish I knew how to draw a double wave here.) There are all types of things we might understand about these poets and their views of the world and their places in it by simply seeing such a structure. I love Finnegan's questions. I felt he was suspicious of this type of work as I am, but instead of attacking it, he asked beautifully sensible questions that might help him understand the quality of such work. I would like to add to his question, in the same spirit I think he asked his. Mine (finally) is there some like what Abrams wrote about in the Romantic ode which might give us as much access to this work as he increased mine into the Romantic poets? Is there a structure that reflects a world view? (I might not like: "Its desultory drift reflects an existential ennui," but I'd understand it and start looking for that . . . and if it did it well . . . great. I might even find new appreciation.) It needn't be just structure (though this is a telling place to look). I'm merely looking for a key. I've been in workshops where students wrote what I identity as this and I try to help them as best as I can, but I'd probably be more effective if I knew some of the main artistic principles or underlying thought. (Or will we have to buy the book of essays? . . . Actually whetting our tastes with a rationale or three might send more of us _to_ the book instead of simply replacing its usefulness.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:14 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk David, How about Marcia Southwick? http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of ultra; what raises it above some random ramblings on/about insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality about the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, and usually some humorous/askance takes on the various things within the poet's wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix diction. Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour ultra talk? Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to really get itself revved up? Finnegan http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. Finnegan ======================= Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready to plug: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html >From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Jun 26 16:24:25 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:24:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <8C9863D3BA4D204-11B0-5ADC@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> References: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8C9862A6B4260C9-17C0-5074@webmail-dd01.sysops.aol.com> <8C9863D3BA4D204-11B0-5ADC@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4A66C6CD-2709-41A0-81E2-30AA2D62EF39@ripon.edu> A few thoughts on a topic I'd love to linger more over, when there's time. . . . What lifts a poem to "ultra" level, as opposed to just "plain" talk is of course a key question. Not sure it can be defined, though, any more than one can define "the lyric" or explain swing in jazz. My method in my Halliday essay was to try to approach the question via example--three poems by Halliday that I would rate as sub-ultra, ultra, and super-ultra, as it were. But honestly, I'm more interested in other questions these days, such as what can an UT poem do that a more chiseled, understated lyric cannot? I came up through a workshop culture that prized, above all, the tightly buttoned down lyric. Partly I think that that's because it's usually possible to suggest cutting in draft poems; it's a relatively easy workshop approach, easy to master, and does improve most drafts. And if one's aesthetic centers around sprawl, then certainly the issue of how to tell good blurt from bad blurt is crucial. But are there positive virtues in the UT poem? In what sense can it offer not just random sprawl, but luxury, increased connectivity, layerings, and so forth? I think that Allen Ginsberg and Frank O'Hara, to pick two well known poets, each wrote a great deal of boring, trivial, and pointless verse. But something happens when they hit their groove: they can achieve a certain quality that, for all their splendors, poets like Lowell or Plath simply cannot. It's not a matter of better/worse, but different, as I see it. Not either/or but both/and. I do love Dickinson's reticence, concision, and so forth; but increasingly I also luxuriate in Whitman's sprawl. And a number of UT poets (Halliday, Kirby & Goldbarth, for three) strike me as among the best going, offering both depth and entertainment in unusual measure. I do think one can sprawl in shorter poems, and quoted an example or two in my essay. It also seems, though current UT poets are mainly arrayed at the free-est end of the spectrum, that one can sprawl in rime & meter. Think Vikram Seth. All definitions break down if you push them too hard. For example, I think James Tate & Dean Young, poets I do admire, are up to something different from Halliday & Kirby, for the most part, but of course there is some definite affinity there, often in tone. Hoagland is more like Halliday than Young, I often think. Halliday in his essay on Kirby makes a distinction between "disjunctive" and "hyperjunctive" that I find intriguing. There was a panel a few years back at AWP on the New York School poets & their influence. Can't remember if it was Billy Collins or David Lehman, but one of the panelists made much of Coleridge as precursor to poets like O'Hara & Koch. Makes a lot of sense to me. I talk a bit about this in my essay, adding poets like Whitman to the roster. And just to clarify: David Kirby's essay collection *Ultra-Talk* is splendid indeed, but is not for the most part *about* UT poetry. I just felt like plugging it; and after all, Kirby is in his poems pretty much the UT poster boy. . . . I also highly recommend his new- and-selected, titled *The House on Boulevard Street*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:13 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > David, > How about Marcia Southwick? > http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm > Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? > > The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of > ultra; what raises it above some random ramblings on/about > insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you > thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) > > Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality > about the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, > and usually some humorous/askance takes on the various things > within the poet's wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix > diction. > > Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour > ultra talk? > > Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to > really get itself revved up? > > Finnegan > http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > > On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... >> Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe >> we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. >> Finnegan > ======================= > > Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the > term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in > *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around > Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems > particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's > wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready > to plug: > > http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html > > From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as > Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, > Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many > others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before > that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. > > Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of > essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. > Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U > Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the > most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright > set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces on > Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. > > Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* > that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by > yours truly. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Jun 26 16:37:48 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:37:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <4A66C6CD-2709-41A0-81E2-30AA2D62EF39@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <000001c7b831$e1d724b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> David- I should have read your essay in Valparaiso before asking a question. I am looking forward to doing so shortly. www.valpo.edu/English/vpr/grahamultra.html -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:24 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk A few thoughts on a topic I'd love to linger more over, when there's time. . . . What lifts a poem to "ultra" level, as opposed to just "plain" talk is of course a key question. Not sure it can be defined, though, any more than one can define "the lyric" or explain swing in jazz. My method in my Halliday essay was to try to approach the question via example--three poems by Halliday that I would rate as sub-ultra, ultra, and super-ultra, as it were. But honestly, I'm more interested in other questions these days, such as what can an UT poem do that a more chiseled, understated lyric cannot? I came up through a workshop culture that prized, above all, the tightly buttoned down lyric. Partly I think that that's because it's usually possible to suggest cutting in draft poems; it's a relatively easy workshop approach, easy to master, and does improve most drafts. And if one's aesthetic centers around sprawl, then certainly the issue of how to tell good blurt from bad blurt is crucial. But are there positive virtues in the UT poem? In what sense can it offer not just random sprawl, but luxury, increased connectivity, layerings, and so forth? I think that Allen Ginsberg and Frank O'Hara, to pick two well known poets, each wrote a great deal of boring, trivial, and pointless verse. But something happens when they hit their groove: they can achieve a certain quality that, for all their splendors, poets like Lowell or Plath simply cannot. It's not a matter of better/worse, but different, as I see it. Not either/or but both/and. I do love Dickinson's reticence, concision, and so forth; but increasingly I also luxuriate in Whitman's sprawl. And a number of UT poets (Halliday, Kirby & Goldbarth, for three) strike me as among the best going, offering both depth and entertainment in unusual measure. I do think one can sprawl in shorter poems, and quoted an example or two in my essay. It also seems, though current UT poets are mainly arrayed at the free-est end of the spectrum, that one can sprawl in rime & meter. Think Vikram Seth. All definitions break down if you push them too hard. For example, I think James Tate & Dean Young, poets I do admire, are up to something different from Halliday & Kirby, for the most part, but of course there is some definite affinity there, often in tone. Hoagland is more like Halliday than Young, I often think. Halliday in his essay on Kirby makes a distinction between "disjunctive" and "hyperjunctive" that I find intriguing. There was a panel a few years back at AWP on the New York School poets & their influence. Can't remember if it was Billy Collins or David Lehman, but one of the panelists made much of Coleridge as precursor to poets like O'Hara & Koch. Makes a lot of sense to me. I talk a bit about this in my essay, adding poets like Whitman to the roster. And just to clarify: David Kirby's essay collection *Ultra-Talk* is splendid indeed, but is not for the most part *about* UT poetry. I just felt like plugging it; and after all, Kirby is in his poems pretty much the UT poster boy. . . . I also highly recommend his new-and-selected, titled *The House on Boulevard Street*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:13 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: David, How about Marcia Southwick? http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of ultra; what raises it above some random ramblings on/about insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality about the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, and usually some humorous/askance takes on the various things within the poet's wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix diction. Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour ultra talk? Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to really get itself revved up? Finnegan http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. Finnegan ======================= Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready to plug: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html >From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 17:22:25 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:22:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <000001c7b82c$8a566ca0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C9864F3A08C3C9-11B0-6175@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Skip, Your?question of structure is interesting, since these talk?poems seem driven almost solely by style. They affect, or really do have, that quality referred to in?painting as 'alla prima'.?Meaning done in one sitting, and not slowly building up layers of paint over time (which might be roughly equivalent to structuring the paint). Leading to a more gestural and generally less formal outcome. It would be interesting to know if certain talk poets 'work over' their pieces, push them through successive drafts until they get down to?that exact degree of insouciance or nonchanlance they're looking for.?Whether they give themselves some guidelines like?'No more than three lines before an abrupt shift in tone/scene/subject/time/diction, etc.?Do they go off their Ritalin for a few days before sitting down to write? (OK,that last question was totally uncalled for, I know.) More seriously, O'Hara and Koch, would be exempt from this question, but how much of the talk poetry is a product of the channel-surfing age, the?drive-thru and the drive-by culture? Is this hip and?uptempo?nihilism? Given the number of poets doing the 'ultra talk' poem, one has got to think there is some necessary one-up-(wo)manship at play: How much?of?a fever pitch can I work myself up to before people begin to visualize me as foaming at the mouth. How may swirls of allusion can I work in before all the colors mix to muddy brown, etc. Can the range of this kind of poetry broaden & deepen,?or is the necessary?motion only up, up, up...? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox skip at louisiana.edu ? I would like to add to his question, in the same spirit I think he asked his. Mine (finally) is there some like what Abrams wrote about in the Romantic ode which might give us as much access to this work as he increased mine into the Romantic poets? Is there a structure that reflects a world view? (I might not like: ?Its desultory drift reflects an existential ennui,? ?but I?d understand it and start looking for that . . . and if it did it well . . . great. I might even find new appreciation.) ? It needn?t be just structure (though this is a telling place to look). I?m merely looking for a key. I?ve been in workshops where students wrote what I identity as this and I try to help them as best as I can, but I?d probably be more effective if I knew some of the main artistic principles or underlying thought. ? (Or will we have to buy the book of essays? . . . Actually whetting our tastes with a rationale or three might send more of us _to_ the book instead of simply replacing its usefulness.) ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 26 17:33:17 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:33:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <4A66C6CD-2709-41A0-81E2-30AA2D62EF39@ripon.edu> References: <156148.88596.qm@web83802.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8C9862A6B4260C9-17C0-5074@webmail-dd01.sysops.aol.com> <8C9863D3BA4D204-11B0-5ADC@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> <4A66C6CD-2709-41A0-81E2-30AA2D62EF39@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8C98650BEC01317-11B0-6271@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Does Daisy Fried fit under this rubric?...this one has?certain dark underpinnings, but with aspects of the comic near the surface. The title sets a tone, the first line?quote is sure to pique readerly?interest, and poem ends with a somewhat comical physical (& mental)?gyration. Finnegan -- Whatever Works "I never was much good at blow jobs," she says, driving. "Couldn't get the right amount of pressure. Or maybe it was him. He just didn't like them. He said so: 'maybe it's me', he said. After awhile I just stopped worrying about it, and here we are." I'm sitting in the back to keep an eye on her baby. I nod, thinking what I know, what I don't know. Old music. Turn off that old radio music. The baby's crying. More night inside the car than out. The baby's crying despite she pulled over at the rest stop to feed it just ten, twenty miles back. I keep on pushing its rubber nipple at its mouth; it takes it a moment then goes on crying. Finally, entering the bridge, she reaches her arm back over the seat, finds the baby's mouth with her finger. It knows her skin by taste. Mouths that finger, sucks it, chews it, falls asleep. "Whatever works," she says, and keeps on driving fast and crooked around that way. --Daisy Fried ----- First published by Beloit Poetry Journal (winter 1997-98) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Jun 26 18:37:58 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:37:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk References: <000001c7b831$e1d724b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <00ae01c7b842$a7e280e0$50fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Couldn't resist letting everyone know that I have never heard of "Ultra-Talk Poetry" before this thread at New-Poetry. Boy, am I ever behind the times. Interestingly, if only to me and a very few others, is that visual poetry has a similar split between lyrical conscision and NY-school sprawl, except it's with text as graphic rather than text as language. I think all kinds of poetry succeed if cohesive in some way however loosely, and fresh in some way however slightly. O'Hara's best poems do fresh things throughout, and--ultimately--cohere, emotionally (for me). --Bob G. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk David- I should have read your essay in Valparaiso before asking a question. I am looking forward to doing so shortly. www.valpo.edu/English/vpr/grahamultra.html -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:24 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk A few thoughts on a topic I'd love to linger more over, when there's time. . . . What lifts a poem to "ultra" level, as opposed to just "plain" talk is of course a key question. Not sure it can be defined, though, any more than one can define "the lyric" or explain swing in jazz. My method in my Halliday essay was to try to approach the question via example--three poems by Halliday that I would rate as sub-ultra, ultra, and super-ultra, as it were. But honestly, I'm more interested in other questions these days, such as what can an UT poem do that a more chiseled, understated lyric cannot? I came up through a workshop culture that prized, above all, the tightly buttoned down lyric. Partly I think that that's because it's usually possible to suggest cutting in draft poems; it's a relatively easy workshop approach, easy to master, and does improve most drafts. And if one's aesthetic centers around sprawl, then certainly the issue of how to tell good blurt from bad blurt is crucial. But are there positive virtues in the UT poem? In what sense can it offer not just random sprawl, but luxury, increased connectivity, layerings, and so forth? I think that Allen Ginsberg and Frank O'Hara, to pick two well known poets, each wrote a great deal of boring, trivial, and pointless verse. But something happens when they hit their groove: they can achieve a certain quality that, for all their splendors, poets like Lowell or Plath simply cannot. It's not a matter of better/worse, but different, as I see it. Not either/or but both/and. I do love Dickinson's reticence, concision, and so forth; but increasingly I also luxuriate in Whitman's sprawl. And a number of UT poets (Halliday, Kirby & Goldbarth, for three) strike me as among the best going, offering both depth and entertainment in unusual measure. I do think one can sprawl in shorter poems, and quoted an example or two in my essay. It also seems, though current UT poets are mainly arrayed at the free-est end of the spectrum, that one can sprawl in rime & meter. Think Vikram Seth. All definitions break down if you push them too hard. For example, I think James Tate & Dean Young, poets I do admire, are up to something different from Halliday & Kirby, for the most part, but of course there is some definite affinity there, often in tone. Hoagland is more like Halliday than Young, I often think. Halliday in his essay on Kirby makes a distinction between "disjunctive" and "hyperjunctive" that I find intriguing. There was a panel a few years back at AWP on the New York School poets & their influence. Can't remember if it was Billy Collins or David Lehman, but one of the panelists made much of Coleridge as precursor to poets like O'Hara & Koch. Makes a lot of sense to me. I talk a bit about this in my essay, adding poets like Whitman to the roster. And just to clarify: David Kirby's essay collection *Ultra-Talk* is splendid indeed, but is not for the most part *about* UT poetry. I just felt like plugging it; and after all, Kirby is in his poems pretty much the UT poster boy. . . . I also highly recommend his new-and-selected, titled *The House on Boulevard Street*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:13 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: David, How about Marcia Southwick? http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of ultra; what raises it above some random ramblings on/about insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality about the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, and usually some humorous/askance takes on the various things within the poet's wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix diction. Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour ultra talk? Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to really get itself revved up? Finnegan http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. Finnegan ======================= Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready to plug: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Jun 26 18:23:07 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:23:07 EDT Subject: Fwd: [New-Poetry] Dan Boiel Message-ID: ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: jforjames at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dan Boiel Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:18:29 -0400 Size: 8156 URL: From JforJames Tue Jun 26 21:47:19 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:47:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] survey by Andrew Duncan of UK poetry anthologies Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:26:37 +0100 From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Critical survey by Andrew Duncan of UK poetry anthologies. Critical survey by Andrew Duncan of UK poetry anthologies: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Duncan%20essay%202.htm ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 27 08:03:54 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:03:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Book Videos Message-ID: <000a01c7b8b3$3c7b2a70$68de3052@ANNY> http://bookvideos.tv/ >From Norton: We all know you aren't supposed to judge a book by its cover. But what about by its video? June was a big month for books being promoted through film. Out of the Book Productions in association with Powell's Books helped us get a little closer to Ian McEwan's new book, On Chesil Beach, and Simon & Schuster wants you to get to know their authors on bookvideos.tv. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jun 27 12:36:09 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:36:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Laugh for the Day References: <000001c7b82c$8a566ca0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <007601c7b8d9$46c0e850$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dana Gioia to graduates: 'Trade easy pleasures for more complex and challenging ones'--from a commencement speech at Stanford >From Jumbrella, which is a subscribers only visual arts information service that actually publicizes visual poetry among a lot of other things. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryseiler Wed Jun 27 11:38:42 2007 From: barryseiler (barry seiler) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:38:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <00ae01c7b842$a7e280e0$50fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: You might look at David Kirby's poem "Author's Note" at the start of his collection "My Twentieth Century." He lists some of his sources for ultratalk. David Antin is a significant source. Take a look at his improvised lecture poems. He's been doing them for thirty years and is a key influence on Kirby. Barry Seiler >From: "Bob Grumman" >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:37:58 -0500 > >Couldn't resist letting everyone know that I have never heard of >"Ultra-Talk Poetry" before this thread at New-Poetry. Boy, am I ever >behind the times. > >Interestingly, if only to me and a very few others, is that visual poetry >has a similar split between lyrical conscision and NY-school sprawl, except >it's with text as graphic rather than text as language. I think all kinds >of poetry succeed if cohesive in some way however loosely, and fresh in >some way however slightly. O'Hara's best poems do fresh things throughout, >and--ultimately--cohere, emotionally (for me). > >--Bob G. > >--Bob G. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Skip Fox > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:37 PM > Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk > > > David- > > > > I should have read your essay in Valparaiso before asking a question. I >am looking forward to doing so shortly. > > > > www.valpo.edu/English/vpr/grahamultra.html > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:24 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk > > > > > > A few thoughts on a topic I'd love to linger more over, when there's >time. . . . > > > > What lifts a poem to "ultra" level, as opposed to just "plain" talk is >of course a key question. Not sure it can be defined, though, any more >than one can define "the lyric" or explain swing in jazz. My method in my >Halliday essay was to try to approach the question via example--three poems >by Halliday that I would rate as sub-ultra, ultra, and super-ultra, as it >were. > > > > But honestly, I'm more interested in other questions these days, such as >what can an UT poem do that a more chiseled, understated lyric cannot? I >came up through a workshop culture that prized, above all, the tightly >buttoned down lyric. Partly I think that that's because it's usually >possible to suggest cutting in draft poems; it's a relatively easy workshop >approach, easy to master, and does improve most drafts. And if one's >aesthetic centers around sprawl, then certainly the issue of how to tell >good blurt from bad blurt is crucial. > > > > But are there positive virtues in the UT poem? In what sense can it >offer not just random sprawl, but luxury, increased connectivity, >layerings, and so forth? I think that Allen Ginsberg and Frank O'Hara, to >pick two well known poets, each wrote a great deal of boring, trivial, and >pointless verse. But something happens when they hit their groove: they >can achieve a certain quality that, for all their splendors, poets like >Lowell or Plath simply cannot. > > > > It's not a matter of better/worse, but different, as I see it. Not >either/or but both/and. I do love Dickinson's reticence, concision, and so >forth; but increasingly I also luxuriate in Whitman's sprawl. And a number >of UT poets (Halliday, Kirby & Goldbarth, for three) strike me as among the >best going, offering both depth and entertainment in unusual measure. > > > > I do think one can sprawl in shorter poems, and quoted an example or two >in my essay. It also seems, though current UT poets are mainly arrayed at >the free-est end of the spectrum, that one can sprawl in rime & meter. >Think Vikram Seth. > > > > All definitions break down if you push them too hard. For example, I >think James Tate & Dean Young, poets I do admire, are up to something >different from Halliday & Kirby, for the most part, but of course there is >some definite affinity there, often in tone. Hoagland is more like >Halliday than Young, I often think. > > > > Halliday in his essay on Kirby makes a distinction between "disjunctive" >and "hyperjunctive" that I find intriguing. > > > > There was a panel a few years back at AWP on the New York School poets & >their influence. Can't remember if it was Billy Collins or David Lehman, >but one of the panelists made much of Coleridge as precursor to poets like >O'Hara & Koch. Makes a lot of sense to me. I talk a bit about this in my >essay, adding poets like Whitman to the roster. > > > > And just to clarify: David Kirby's essay collection *Ultra-Talk* is >splendid indeed, but is not for the most part *about* UT poetry. I just >felt like plugging it; and after all, Kirby is in his poems pretty much the >UT poster boy. . . . I also highly recommend his new-and-selected, titled >*The House on Boulevard Street*. > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:13 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > David, > How about Marcia Southwick? > http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm > Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? > > The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of ultra; >what raises it above some random ramblings on/about insignificant aspects >of one's life? (You didn't say what you thought of the example poem from >the chapbook prize winner?) > > Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality about >the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, and usually >some humorous/askance takes on the various things within the poet's >wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix diction. > > Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour >ultra talk? > > Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to really >get itself revved up? > > Finnegan > http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... > > Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe > we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. > Finnegan > > ======================= > > > > Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the term, >applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*. I >wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but >meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting >these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry >Review*, which I am also always ready to plug: > > > > http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html > > > > From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, >Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy >Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others. Antecedents in Frank >O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's >conversation poems. > > > > Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of >essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of >Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007). I >highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about >ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read >in years. One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other >delights. > > > > Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that >will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >from AOL at AOL.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Picture this ? share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From halvard Wed Jun 27 11:43:46 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:43:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Laugh for the Day In-Reply-To: <007601c7b8d9$46c0e850$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <000001c7b82c$8a566ca0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007601c7b8d9$46c0e850$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <54B9DC77-6BDB-4C56-9729-C98D7D9D634F@earthlink.net> Trade Dana Gioia for a more complex and challenging one. Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 27, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Dana Gioia to graduates: 'Trade easy pleasures for more complex and > challenging ones'--from a commencement speech at Stanford > > From Jumbrella, which is a subscribers only visual arts information > service that actually publicizes visual poetry among a lot of other > things. > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Jun 27 11:45:00 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:45:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net> I second that notion. Hal, amazed that it's taken so long for Antin's name to appear CLO ED FOR REN VATION Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 27, 2007, at 10:38 AM, barry seiler wrote: > You might look at David Kirby's poem "Author's Note" at the start > of his collection "My Twentieth Century." He lists some of his > sources for ultratalk. David Antin is a significant source. Take a > look at his improvised lecture poems. He's been doing them for > thirty years and is a key influence on Kirby. > > Barry Seiler > > >> From: "Bob Grumman" >> Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk >> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:37:58 -0500 >> >> Couldn't resist letting everyone know that I have never heard of >> "Ultra-Talk Poetry" before this thread at New-Poetry. Boy, am I >> ever behind the times. >> >> Interestingly, if only to me and a very few others, is that visual >> poetry has a similar split between lyrical conscision and NY- >> school sprawl, except it's with text as graphic rather than text >> as language. I think all kinds of poetry succeed if cohesive in >> some way however loosely, and fresh in some way however slightly. >> O'Hara's best poems do fresh things throughout, and--ultimately-- >> cohere, emotionally (for me). >> >> --Bob G. >> >> --Bob G. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Skip Fox >> To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:37 PM >> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk >> >> >> David- >> >> >> >> I should have read your essay in Valparaiso before asking a >> question. I am looking forward to doing so shortly. >> >> >> >> www.valpo.edu/English/vpr/grahamultra.html >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- >> bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:24 PM >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk >> >> >> >> >> >> A few thoughts on a topic I'd love to linger more over, when >> there's time. . . . >> >> >> >> What lifts a poem to "ultra" level, as opposed to just "plain" >> talk is of course a key question. Not sure it can be defined, >> though, any more than one can define "the lyric" or explain swing >> in jazz. My method in my Halliday essay was to try to approach >> the question via example--three poems by Halliday that I would >> rate as sub-ultra, ultra, and super-ultra, as it were. >> >> >> >> But honestly, I'm more interested in other questions these days, >> such as what can an UT poem do that a more chiseled, understated >> lyric cannot? I came up through a workshop culture that prized, >> above all, the tightly buttoned down lyric. Partly I think that >> that's because it's usually possible to suggest cutting in draft >> poems; it's a relatively easy workshop approach, easy to master, >> and does improve most drafts. And if one's aesthetic centers >> around sprawl, then certainly the issue of how to tell good blurt >> from bad blurt is crucial. >> >> >> >> But are there positive virtues in the UT poem? In what sense >> can it offer not just random sprawl, but luxury, increased >> connectivity, layerings, and so forth? I think that Allen >> Ginsberg and Frank O'Hara, to pick two well known poets, each >> wrote a great deal of boring, trivial, and pointless verse. But >> something happens when they hit their groove: they can achieve a >> certain quality that, for all their splendors, poets like Lowell >> or Plath simply cannot. >> >> >> >> It's not a matter of better/worse, but different, as I see it. >> Not either/or but both/and. I do love Dickinson's reticence, >> concision, and so forth; but increasingly I also luxuriate in >> Whitman's sprawl. And a number of UT poets (Halliday, Kirby & >> Goldbarth, for three) strike me as among the best going, offering >> both depth and entertainment in unusual measure. >> >> >> >> I do think one can sprawl in shorter poems, and quoted an >> example or two in my essay. It also seems, though current UT >> poets are mainly arrayed at the free-est end of the spectrum, that >> one can sprawl in rime & meter. Think Vikram Seth. >> >> >> >> All definitions break down if you push them too hard. For >> example, I think James Tate & Dean Young, poets I do admire, are >> up to something different from Halliday & Kirby, for the most >> part, but of course there is some definite affinity there, often >> in tone. Hoagland is more like Halliday than Young, I often think. >> >> >> >> Halliday in his essay on Kirby makes a distinction between >> "disjunctive" and "hyperjunctive" that I find intriguing. >> >> >> >> There was a panel a few years back at AWP on the New York School >> poets & their influence. Can't remember if it was Billy Collins >> or David Lehman, but one of the panelists made much of Coleridge >> as precursor to poets like O'Hara & Koch. Makes a lot of sense to >> me. I talk a bit about this in my essay, adding poets like >> Whitman to the roster. >> >> >> >> And just to clarify: David Kirby's essay collection *Ultra- >> Talk* is splendid indeed, but is not for the most part *about* UT >> poetry. I just felt like plugging it; and after all, Kirby is in >> his poems pretty much the UT poster boy. . . . I also highly >> recommend his new-and-selected, titled *The House on Boulevard >> Street*. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> >> David Graham >> >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> >> >> Home Page: >> >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html >> >> >> >> Poetry Library: >> >> http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html >> >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:13 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> David, >> How about Marcia Southwick? >> http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm >> Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? >> >> The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of >> ultra; what raises it above some random ramblings on/about >> insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you >> thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) >> >> Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' >> quality about the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and >> digressions, and usually some humorous/askance takes on the >> various things within the poet's wide-ranging purview, and >> sometimes a heady mix diction. >> >> Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or >> dour ultra talk? >> >> Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to >> really get itself revved up? >> >> Finnegan >> http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: >> >> I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... >> >> Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe >> we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. >> Finnegan >> >> ======================= >> >> >> >> Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined >> the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in >> *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around >> Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that >> seems particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed >> Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also >> always ready to plug: >> >> >> >> http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html >> >> >> >> From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as >> Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, >> Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and >> many others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and >> before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. >> >> >> >> Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection >> of essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. >> Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U >> Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the >> most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and >> bright set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces >> on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. >> >> >> >> Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* >> that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by >> yours truly. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ======================================== >> >> David Graham >> >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> >> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about >> what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _________________________________________________________________ > Picture this ? share your photos and you could win big! http:// > www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Wed Jun 27 13:21:15 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:21:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk References: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008201c7b8df$93602d00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > CLO ED > FOR > REN VATION > > Halvard Johnson Watch it, Hal--some people would call your sign visual poetry. --Bob G. From halvard Wed Jun 27 12:34:04 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:34:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <008201c7b8df$93602d00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net> <008201c7b8df$93602d00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Actually, Bob, that's found visual poetry, copied from the marquee of the 6th Ave. Waverly Theater, now the IFC multiplex. Hal, insisting on the right category for a change "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." --Tom Lehrer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 27, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> CLO ED >> FOR >> REN VATION >> Halvard Johnson > > Watch it, Hal--some people would call your sign visual poetry. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Wed Jun 27 13:59:48 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:59:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk References: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net><008201c7b8df$93602d 00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <009701c7b8e4$f6485be0$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Actually, Bob, that's found visual poetry, copied > from the marquee of the 6th Ave. Waverly Theater, > now the IFC multiplex. > > Hal, insisting on the right category for a change > That might be worse. I'll have to check with my colleagues. That it's "found visual poetry." Your insisting on the right category passeth the bounds of possible classification. --Bob From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 27 13:02:54 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:02:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk References: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net><008201c7b8df$93602d00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <009701c7b8e4$f6485be0$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <005401c7b8dd$0160c1f0$29d93052@ANNY> >> Actually, Bob, that's found visual poetry, copied >> from the marquee of the 6th Ave. Waverly Theater, >> now the IFC multiplex. >> >> Hal, insisting on the right category for a change >> > That might be worse. I'll have to check with my colleagues. That it's > "found visual poetry." Your insisting on the right category passeth the > bounds of possible classification. > > --Bob you people with so much time on your hands... read a bit: Meritage Press Announcement www.meritagepress.com For more information: MeritagePress at aol.com POETRY FEEDS THE WORLD Meritage Press (MP) is pleased to inaugurate a new series of Tiny Books that aligns poetry with fair trade and economic development issues affecting Third World countries. MP's Tiny Books initially will utilize small books ( 1 3/4 x 1 3/4") made in Guatemala by artisans paid fair wages, as sourced by Baksheesh, a fair trade retailer. All profits from book sales then will be donated to Heifer International, an organization devoted to reducing world hunger by promoting sustainable sources of food and income. We are delighted to announce that MP's first Tiny Book is all alone again by Dan Waber Dan Waber is a visual poet, concrete poet, sound poet, performance poet, publisher, editor, playwright and multimedia artist whose work has appeared in all sorts of delicious places, from digital to print, from stage to classroom, from mailboxes to puppet theaters. He is currently working on "and everywhere in between". He makes his online home at logolalia.com. Meritage Press tapped Mr. Waber to inaugurate the series partly for his work in minimalist poetry. Tiny Book #2 will feature Tom Beckett's first hay(na)ku poetry collection, Steps: A Notebook. The hay(na)ku also is a form that lends itself to minimalism. With Tiny Books, MP also offers a new DIY, or Do-It-Yourself Model of publishing. You've heard of POD or print-on-demand? Well, these books' print runs will be based on HOD or Handwritten-on-Demand. MP's publisher, Eileen Tabios, will handwrite all texts into the Tiny Books' pages and books will be released to meet demand for as long as MP is able to source tiny books -- or until the publisher gets arthritis. This project reflects Meritage Press' belief that "Poetry feeds the world" in non-metaphorical ways. Each Tiny Book will cost $10 plus $1.00 shipping/handling. To purchase Dan Waber's all alone again and donate to Heifer International, send a check for $11.00 made out to "Meritage Press" to Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Rd. St. Helena, CA 94574 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Jun 27 13:13:25 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:13:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <005401c7b8dd$0160c1f0$29d93052@ANNY> References: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net><008201c7b8df$93602d00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <009701c7b8e4$f6485be0$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <005401c7b8dd$0160c1f0$29d93052@ANNY> Message-ID: On my hands! Gadzooks, I've never thought to look for it there, and you're right! Why I found eons beneath the fingernail of my left hand pinkie alone. Wonders never . . . well, you know. Hal "Time is what keeps us waiting." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 27, 2007, at 12:02 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Actually, Bob, that's found visual poetry, copied > >> from the marquee of the 6th Ave. Waverly Theater, > >> now the IFC multiplex. > >> > >> Hal, insisting on the right category for a change > >> > > That might be worse. I'll have to check with my colleagues. > That it's > > "found visual poetry." Your insisting on the right category > passeth the > > bounds of possible classification. > > > > --Bob > you people with so much time on your hands... read a bit: > > Meritage Press Announcement > www.meritagepress.com > For more information: MeritagePress at aol.com > > POETRY FEEDS THE WORLD > > Meritage Press (MP) is pleased to inaugurate a new series of Tiny > Books that aligns poetry with fair trade and economic development > issues affecting Third World countries. > > MP's Tiny Books initially will utilize small books ( 1 3/4 x 1 3/4") > made in Guatemala by artisans paid fair wages, as sourced by > Baksheesh, a fair trade retailer. All profits from book sales then > will be donated to Heifer International, an organization devoted to > reducing world hunger by promoting sustainable sources of food and > income. > > We are delighted to announce that MP's first Tiny Book is > > all alone again > by Dan Waber > > Dan Waber is a visual poet, concrete poet, sound poet, performance > poet, publisher, editor, playwright and multimedia artist whose work > has appeared in all sorts of delicious places, from digital to print, > from stage to classroom, from mailboxes to puppet theaters. He is > currently working on "and everywhere in between". He makes his online > home at logolalia.com. > > Meritage Press tapped Mr. Waber to inaugurate the series partly for > his work in minimalist poetry. Tiny Book #2 will feature Tom > Beckett's first hay(na)ku poetry collection, Steps: A Notebook. The > hay(na)ku also is a form that lends itself to minimalism. > > With Tiny Books, MP also offers a new DIY, or Do-It-Yourself Model of > publishing. You've heard of POD or print-on-demand? Well, these > books' print runs will be based on HOD or Handwritten-on-Demand. MP's > publisher, Eileen Tabios, will handwrite all texts into the Tiny > Books' pages and books will be released to meet demand for as long as > MP is able to source tiny books -- or until the publisher gets > arthritis. > > This project reflects Meritage Press' belief that "Poetry feeds the > world" in non-metaphorical ways. > > Each Tiny Book will cost $10 plus $1.00 shipping/handling. To purchase > Dan Waber's all alone again and donate to Heifer International, send a > check for $11.00 made out to "Meritage Press" to > > Eileen Tabios > Meritage Press > 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Rd. > St. Helena, CA 94574 > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 27 13:18:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:18:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk References: <784126F3-1BAF-4398-A870-A2B11B16C437@earthlink.net><008201c7b8df$93602d00$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><009701c7b8e4$f6485be0$0dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><005401c7b8dd$0160c1f0$29d93052@ANNY> Message-ID: <007401c7b8df$2ac77140$29d93052@ANNY> :-) From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:13 PM On my hands! Gadzooks, I've never thought to look for it there, and you're right! Why I found eons beneath the fingernail of my left hand pinkie alone. Wonders never . . . well, you know. Hal "Time is what keeps us waiting." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Jun 27 16:34:52 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:34:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <8C9864F3A08C3C9-11B0-6175@WEBMAIL-RB12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004801c7b8fa$a4176580$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O'Hara, Mayer, Antin and Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don't even think of Goldbarth when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting defeatism, a sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who has found nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very much to say in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. "By the gate now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to clear them away" Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula of this state in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost in love). Why _do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath their lines. I'd rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a misreading of Williams) lead to this, since I believe the discursive force that comes through Pound or Williams or Olson through O'Hara et al., does not sprawl. Is that a viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit in a loosely held line compared to an energetic discovery of what there is to know, realize, think about, feel, write and read, in a unique but recognizably talkative line? That's my initial impression, but I'm open to persuasion. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:22 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk Skip, Your question of structure is interesting, since these talk poems seem driven almost solely by style. They affect, or really do have, that quality referred to in painting as 'alla prima'. Meaning done in one sitting, and not slowly building up layers of paint over time (which might be roughly equivalent to structuring the paint). Leading to a more gestural and generally less formal outcome. It would be interesting to know if certain talk poets 'work over' their pieces, push them through successive drafts until they get down to that exact degree of insouciance or nonchanlance they're looking for. Whether they give themselves some guidelines like 'No more than three lines before an abrupt shift in tone/scene/subject/time/diction, etc. Do they go off their Ritalin for a few days before sitting down to write? (OK,that last question was totally uncalled for, I know.) More seriously, O'Hara and Koch, would be exempt from this question, but how much of the talk poetry is a product of the channel-surfing age, the drive-thru and the drive-by culture? Is this hip and uptempo nihilism? Given the number of poets doing the 'ultra talk' poem, one has got to think there is some necessary one-up-(wo)manship at play: How much of a fever pitch can I work myself up to before people begin to visualize me as foaming at the mouth. How may swirls of allusion can I work in before all the colors mix to muddy brown, etc. Can the range of this kind of poetry broaden & deepen, or is the necessary motion only up, up, up...? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox skip at louisiana.edu I would like to add to his question, in the same spirit I think he asked his. Mine (finally) is there some like what Abrams wrote about in the Romantic ode which might give us as much access to this work as he increased mine into the Romantic poets? Is there a structure that reflects a world view? (I might not like: "Its desultory drift reflects an existential ennui," but I'd understand it and start looking for that . . . and if it did it well . . . great. I might even find new appreciation.) It needn't be just structure (though this is a telling place to look). I'm merely looking for a key. I've been in workshops where students wrote what I identity as this and I try to help them as best as I can, but I'd probably be more effective if I knew some of the main artistic principles or underlying thought. (Or will we have to buy the book of essays? . . . Actually whetting our tastes with a rationale or three might send more of us _to_ the book instead of simply replacing its usefulness.) _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Jun 27 16:41:20 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:41:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <00ae01c7b842$a7e280e0$50fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004d01c7b8fb$8b0ee620$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I cannot remember hearing this designation either. And I agree with you except to say nearly all of O'Hara's poems do constantly interesting things for me, as do the others we have listed as foreparents (to be politically correct*): Coleridge through Mayer, Antin and Equi. Active minds in words. Or so it seems nearly always to me. *Here's for The Politically Correct: instead of "the dead," why not the "metabolically challenged"? Nice ring? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:38 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk Couldn't resist letting everyone know that I have never heard of "Ultra-Talk Poetry" before this thread at New-Poetry. Boy, am I ever behind the times. Interestingly, if only to me and a very few others, is that visual poetry has a similar split between lyrical conscision and NY-school sprawl, except it's with text as graphic rather than text as language. I think all kinds of poetry succeed if cohesive in some way however loosely, and fresh in some way however slightly. O'Hara's best poems do fresh things throughout, and--ultimately--cohere, emotionally (for me). --Bob G. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk David- I should have read your essay in Valparaiso before asking a question. I am looking forward to doing so shortly. www.valpo.edu/English/vpr/grahamultra.html -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 3:24 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ultra-Talk A few thoughts on a topic I'd love to linger more over, when there's time. . . . What lifts a poem to "ultra" level, as opposed to just "plain" talk is of course a key question. Not sure it can be defined, though, any more than one can define "the lyric" or explain swing in jazz. My method in my Halliday essay was to try to approach the question via example--three poems by Halliday that I would rate as sub-ultra, ultra, and super-ultra, as it were. But honestly, I'm more interested in other questions these days, such as what can an UT poem do that a more chiseled, understated lyric cannot? I came up through a workshop culture that prized, above all, the tightly buttoned down lyric. Partly I think that that's because it's usually possible to suggest cutting in draft poems; it's a relatively easy workshop approach, easy to master, and does improve most drafts. And if one's aesthetic centers around sprawl, then certainly the issue of how to tell good blurt from bad blurt is crucial. But are there positive virtues in the UT poem? In what sense can it offer not just random sprawl, but luxury, increased connectivity, layerings, and so forth? I think that Allen Ginsberg and Frank O'Hara, to pick two well known poets, each wrote a great deal of boring, trivial, and pointless verse. But something happens when they hit their groove: they can achieve a certain quality that, for all their splendors, poets like Lowell or Plath simply cannot. It's not a matter of better/worse, but different, as I see it. Not either/or but both/and. I do love Dickinson's reticence, concision, and so forth; but increasingly I also luxuriate in Whitman's sprawl. And a number of UT poets (Halliday, Kirby & Goldbarth, for three) strike me as among the best going, offering both depth and entertainment in unusual measure. I do think one can sprawl in shorter poems, and quoted an example or two in my essay. It also seems, though current UT poets are mainly arrayed at the free-est end of the spectrum, that one can sprawl in rime & meter. Think Vikram Seth. All definitions break down if you push them too hard. For example, I think James Tate & Dean Young, poets I do admire, are up to something different from Halliday & Kirby, for the most part, but of course there is some definite affinity there, often in tone. Hoagland is more like Halliday than Young, I often think. Halliday in his essay on Kirby makes a distinction between "disjunctive" and "hyperjunctive" that I find intriguing. There was a panel a few years back at AWP on the New York School poets & their influence. Can't remember if it was Billy Collins or David Lehman, but one of the panelists made much of Coleridge as precursor to poets like O'Hara & Koch. Makes a lot of sense to me. I talk a bit about this in my essay, adding poets like Whitman to the roster. And just to clarify: David Kirby's essay collection *Ultra-Talk* is splendid indeed, but is not for the most part *about* UT poetry. I just felt like plugging it; and after all, Kirby is in his poems pretty much the UT poster boy. . . . I also highly recommend his new-and-selected, titled *The House on Boulevard Street*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 26, 2007, at 2:13 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: David, How about Marcia Southwick? http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/ncw/southsel.htm Tony Hoagland and Dean Young? The bigger question is: What gets the poem up to the level of ultra; what raises it above some random ramblings on/about insignificant aspects of one's life? (You didn't say what you thought of the example poem from the chapbook prize winner?) Certainly there is generally an 'effusive' or a 'frenetic' quality about the poetry, with lots of unexpected segues and digressions, and usually some humorous/askance takes on the various things within the poet's wide-ranging purview, and sometimes a heady mix diction. Is 'ultra talk' always humorous or 'breezy'? Is there jaded or dour ultra talk? Is 'ultra talk' ever short? Or does it need a certain length to really get itself revved up? Finnegan http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/ On Jun 26, 2007, at 11:58 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: I've overheard better poetry at Starbucks than this... Someone coined that term 'ultra-talk' poetry, so maybe we need a new classification, 'infra-talk' poetry. Finnegan ======================= Always happy to talk Ultra-Talk. . . . Mark Halliday coined the term, applying it to the poems of David Kirby in a review in *Parnassus*. I wrote an essay about the concept, centered around Halliday's work but meditating a bit on a mode of poetry that seems particularly interesting these days. It appeared in Ed Byrne's wonderful *Valparaiso Poetry Review*, which I am also always ready to plug: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html >From my perspective, ultra-talkers would include poets such as Halliday, Kirby, Barbara Hamby, Albert Goldbarth, David Lehman, Denise Duhamel, Billy Collins sometimes, Bernadette Mayer, and many others. Antecedents in Frank O'Hara & Kenneth Koch, and before that, way back to Coleridge's conversation poems. Most recently, David Kirby adopted the term for his collection of essays, *Ultra Talk: Johnny Cash, The Mafia, Shakespeare, St. Teresa of Avila, and 17 Other Colossal Topics of Conversation* (U Georgia 2007). I highly recommend this book, which is not for the most part about ultra-talk, but is the most entertaining and bright set of essays I've read in years. One of the best pieces on Whitman I've ever seen, among other delights. Kirby is also at work on a forthcoming feature in *TriQuarterly* that will present a spread of ultra-talk poems including a few by yours truly. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryseiler Wed Jun 27 16:47:18 2007 From: barryseiler (barry seiler) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:47:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: <004801c7b8fa$a4176580$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I don't want to get too fussy, but the Antin of the talk poems probably doesn't belong on this list. He's coming more from a "oral" tradition. I think of him as a Borscht Beltcomic, who is very very educated. He improvises his lectures in front of an audience then transcribes them through some kind of poetry voodoo. Barry Seiler >From: "Skip Fox" >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" > >Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:34:52 -0500 > >And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O'Hara, Mayer, Antin >and >Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don't even think of Goldbarth >when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting defeatism, a >sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who has found >nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very much to say >in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. "By the gate >now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to clear them >away" Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula of this state >in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost in love). Why >_do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath their lines. I'd >rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a misreading of Williams) >lead to this, since I believe the discursive force that comes through Pound >or Williams or Olson through O'Hara et al., does not sprawl. Is that a >viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit in a loosely held >line >compared to an energetic discovery of what there is to know, realize, think >about, feel, write and read, in a unique but recognizably talkative line? > > > >That's my initial impression, but I'm open to persuasion. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:22 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk > > > >Skip, >Your question of structure is interesting, since these talk poems seem >driven almost solely by style. They affect, or really do have, that quality >referred to in painting as 'alla prima'. Meaning done in one sitting, and >not slowly building up layers of paint over time (which might be roughly >equivalent to structuring the paint). Leading to a more gestural and >generally less formal outcome. It would be interesting to know if certain >talk poets 'work over' their pieces, push them through successive drafts >until they get down to that exact degree of insouciance or nonchanlance >they're looking for. Whether they give themselves some guidelines like 'No >more than three lines before an abrupt shift in >tone/scene/subject/time/diction, etc. Do they go off their Ritalin for a >few >days before sitting down to write? (OK,that last question was totally >uncalled for, I know.) More seriously, O'Hara and Koch, would be exempt >from >this question, but how much of the talk poetry is a product of the >channel-surfing age, the drive-thru and the drive-by culture? Is this hip >and uptempo nihilism? > >Given the number of poets doing the 'ultra talk' poem, one has got to think >there is some necessary one-up-(wo)manship at play: How much of a fever >pitch can I work myself up to before people begin to visualize me as >foaming >at the mouth. How may swirls of allusion can I work in before all the >colors >mix to muddy brown, etc. Can the range of this kind of poetry broaden & >deepen, or is the necessary motion only up, up, up...? >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Skip Fox skip at louisiana.edu > > > >I would like to add to his question, in the same spirit I think he asked >his. Mine (finally) is there some like what Abrams wrote about in the >Romantic ode which might give us as much access to this work as he >increased >mine into the Romantic poets? Is there a structure that reflects a world >view? (I might not like: "Its desultory drift reflects an existential >ennui," but I'd understand it and start looking for that . . . and if it >did it well . . . great. I might even find new appreciation.) > > > >It needn't be just structure (though this is a telling place to look). I'm >merely looking for a key. I've been in workshops where students wrote what >I >identity as this and I try to help them as best as I can, but I'd probably >be more effective if I knew some of the main artistic principles or >underlying thought. > > > >(Or will we have to buy the book of essays? . . . Actually whetting our >tastes with a rationale or three might send more of us _to_ the book >instead >of simply replacing its usefulness.) > > > > > > > > _____ > >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from >AOL at AOL.com. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 27 17:22:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:22:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scott Fitzgerald Message-ID: <014c01c7b901$37a1e090$29d93052@ANNY> 9th International F.Scott Fitzgerald Conference, Senate House, London 8-14 July Hosted for the Fitzgerald Society by the Institute of English Studies, University of London, Senate House, Malet Street, London WC1E Registration for the 9th International F.Scott Fitzgerald Conference to be held in London is open with full programme details available at the below Institute of English Studies web address: http://ies.sas.ac.uk/events/conferences/2007/Fitzgerald/programme.htm Plenaries by Professor Ronald Berman (UC San Diego) and Professor Richard Godden (Sussex) bookend what promises to be an exciting week of events and academic conversations about the life and work of F. Scott Fitzgerald. The US Ambassador will host a reception in honour of the conference at his residence Winfield House, in Regent's Park. Information on registration and suggested accommodation is available on the Institute of English Studies website: http://ies.sas.ac.uk/events/conferences/2007/Fitzgerald/index.htm For further information on enquiries and registration please contact Jon Millington, Events Officer, Institute of English Studies, Senate House, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HU; tel +44 (0) 207 664 4859; Email jon.millington at sas.ac.uk -- Dr Philip McGowan, Senior Lecturer, Director of Postgraduate Education, School of English, Queen's University Belfast. Ph: 028 90973261 Fax: 028 90314615 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 27 17:27:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:27:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Chronicling America Site Now Offers 310, 000 Newspaper Pages - The Library Today (Library of Congress) Message-ID: <000b01c7b901$edfc28a0$29d93052@ANNY> Chronicling America Site Now Offers 310,000 Newspaper Pages Program to Put Digitized Newspapers Online Makes Eight Awards Approximately 310,000 digitized newspaper pages, dating from 1900 to 1910, are now accessible through the Chronicling America Web site at www.loc.gov/chroniclingamerica/. The site is a project of the National Digital Newspaper Program (NDNP), a partnership between the Library of Congress and the National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH). http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2007/07-132.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Jun 27 17:34:28 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:34:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005c01c7b902$f6a2b540$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Respectfully, though there is a performance tradition within which he can be seen, notably including Jackson MacLow, his early poems show the influence of the objectivists, Stein, Pound and Williams, I think. Again, willing to be persuaded otherwise. And I put Pound and Williams in this tradition in that they both affect a conversational/epistolary context, most clearly in their poems of the forties and later, even reaching into works that seem improvised (_Pisan Cantos_ and "Desert Music"), falling into the Romantic belief that "mind is shapely," as Ginsberg said. E.g., the 81st Canto. But I'm much more certain of placing late Pound and Williams in this line than Antin. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of barry seiler Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:47 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk I don't want to get too fussy, but the Antin of the talk poems probably doesn't belong on this list. He's coming more from a "oral" tradition. I think of him as a Borscht Beltcomic, who is very very educated. He improvises his lectures in front of an audience then transcribes them through some kind of poetry voodoo. Barry Seiler >From: "Skip Fox" >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" > >Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:34:52 -0500 > >And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O'Hara, Mayer, Antin >and >Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don't even think of Goldbarth >when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting defeatism, a >sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who has found >nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very much to say >in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. "By the gate >now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to clear them >away" Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula of this state >in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost in love). Why >_do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath their lines. I'd >rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a misreading of Williams) >lead to this, since I believe the discursive force that comes through Pound >or Williams or Olson through O'Hara et al., does not sprawl. Is that a >viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit in a loosely held >line >compared to an energetic discovery of what there is to know, realize, think >about, feel, write and read, in a unique but recognizably talkative line? > > > >That's my initial impression, but I'm open to persuasion. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:22 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk > > > >Skip, >Your question of structure is interesting, since these talk poems seem >driven almost solely by style. They affect, or really do have, that quality >referred to in painting as 'alla prima'. Meaning done in one sitting, and >not slowly building up layers of paint over time (which might be roughly >equivalent to structuring the paint). Leading to a more gestural and >generally less formal outcome. It would be interesting to know if certain >talk poets 'work over' their pieces, push them through successive drafts >until they get down to that exact degree of insouciance or nonchanlance >they're looking for. Whether they give themselves some guidelines like 'No >more than three lines before an abrupt shift in >tone/scene/subject/time/diction, etc. Do they go off their Ritalin for a >few >days before sitting down to write? (OK,that last question was totally >uncalled for, I know.) More seriously, O'Hara and Koch, would be exempt >from >this question, but how much of the talk poetry is a product of the >channel-surfing age, the drive-thru and the drive-by culture? Is this hip >and uptempo nihilism? > >Given the number of poets doing the 'ultra talk' poem, one has got to think >there is some necessary one-up-(wo)manship at play: How much of a fever >pitch can I work myself up to before people begin to visualize me as >foaming >at the mouth. How may swirls of allusion can I work in before all the >colors >mix to muddy brown, etc. Can the range of this kind of poetry broaden & >deepen, or is the necessary motion only up, up, up...? >Finnegan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Skip Fox skip at louisiana.edu > > > >I would like to add to his question, in the same spirit I think he asked >his. Mine (finally) is there some like what Abrams wrote about in the >Romantic ode which might give us as much access to this work as he >increased >mine into the Romantic poets? Is there a structure that reflects a world >view? (I might not like: "Its desultory drift reflects an existential >ennui," but I'd understand it and start looking for that . . . and if it >did it well . . . great. I might even find new appreciation.) > > > >It needn't be just structure (though this is a telling place to look). I'm >merely looking for a key. I've been in workshops where students wrote what >I >identity as this and I try to help them as best as I can, but I'd probably >be more effective if I knew some of the main artistic principles or >underlying thought. > > > >(Or will we have to buy the book of essays? . . . Actually whetting our >tastes with a rationale or three might send more of us _to_ the book >instead >of simply replacing its usefulness.) > > > > > > > > _____ > >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from >AOL at AOL.com. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Wed Jun 27 18:16:52 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:16:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <004801c7b8fa$a4176580$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <004801c7b8fa$a4176580$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <712DCC9B-7959-460E-8A2B-3C3187E52315@ripon.edu> Honestly, I don't recognize Goldbarth's work in descriptors like "tired," "slacker," "defeatism," etc.--could well be I'm missing Skip's point, but to my mind Goldbarth at his best is wonderfully energetic, inventive, loopy, raw-boned, and densely layered. In fact, if there's a single word that screamingly does *not* apply to any aspect of Goldbarth, stylistic or thematic, I'd nominate "minimal." He's the poster boy of Maximalism. Most critiques of his work I've seen, in fact, take him to task for his relentless sprawl, his more-more-more aesthetic (he in turn nods to such critics by titling his recent new-and-selected collection *The Kitchen Sink*). But apart from our different takes on specific poets, one thing that's mighty intriguing to me is the way that this discussion has begun to blur certain battle lines, finding possible commonalities among poets not often considered together--e.g. Antin & Kirby, Goldbarth & O'Hara, Mayer & Hoagland. And I like the way Williams has infiltrated the discussion, especially his later discursive works like "The Desert Music". In regard to Goldbarth, I've often wondered why his work seems so invisible to most folks on the lang-po side of things. Despite his mainstream credentials, he's always made a lot of moves that we think of as firmly otherstream & postmodern in nature--his habit of anatomizing language itself; his fractured narratives; his blurring of the prose/verse boundary as well as the distinction between essay and poem; his process poetics; his continual metapoetic gesturing; his use of linguistic collage; etc. Another poet who ought to be more highly regarded by the experimentalist wing, I've always thought, is A. R. Ammons. As far as I'm concerned, "ultra-talk" as a category is best kept loosely defined, mostly useful in the way it points toward an interesting trend on the current scene, one with some deep & interesting roots. I'm enjoying this thread a lot. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O?Hara, Mayer, > Antin and Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don?t even > think of Goldbarth when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has > the same lilting defeatism, a sense that the world in minimal, the > exhausted feel of one who has found nothing (maybe without looking > very hard) and has nothing very much to say in the face of it. > Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. ?By the gate now, the > moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to clear them > away? Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula of > this state in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and > lost in love). Why _do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them > ask beneath their lines. I?d rather think that the relaxations of > Lowell (via a misreading of Williams) lead to this, since I believe > the discursive force that comes through Pound or Williams or Olson > through O?Hara et al., does not sprawl. Is that a viable > difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit in a loosely held > line compared to an energetic discovery of what there is to know, > realize, think about, feel, write and read, in a unique but > recognizably talkative line? > > > That?s my initial impression, but I?m open to persuasion. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 4:22 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk > > > Skip, > Your question of structure is interesting, since these talk poems > seem driven almost solely by style. They affect, or really do have, > that quality referred to in painting as 'alla prima'. Meaning done > in one sitting, and not slowly building up layers of paint over > time (which might be roughly equivalent to structuring the paint). > Leading to a more gestural and generally less formal outcome. It > would be interesting to know if certain talk poets 'work over' > their pieces, push them through successive drafts until they get > down to that exact degree of insouciance or nonchanlance they're > looking for. Whether they give themselves some guidelines like 'No > more than three lines before an abrupt shift in tone/scene/subject/ > time/diction, etc. Do they go off their Ritalin for a few days > before sitting down to write? (OK,that last question was totally > uncalled for, I know.) More seriously, O'Hara and Koch, would be > exempt from this question, but how much of the talk poetry is a > product of the channel-surfing age, the drive-thru and the drive-by > culture? Is this hip and uptempo nihilism? > > Given the number of poets doing the 'ultra talk' poem, one has got > to think there is some necessary one-up-(wo)manship at play: How > much of a fever pitch can I work myself up to before people begin > to visualize me as foaming at the mouth. How may swirls of allusion > can I work in before all the colors mix to muddy brown, etc. Can > the range of this kind of poetry broaden & deepen, or is the > necessary motion only up, up, up...? > Finnegan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Thu Jun 28 03:53:36 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Dan Boehl In-Reply-To: <200706271956.l5RJubKQ015786@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <601485.50353.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I like the notion of "ultra-talk" it just sounds so instantly marketable, and yes O' Hara, and Koch seem right with the notion, so does Mark Halliday, not from what I have read, but from what I remember hearing reading with him, yes it all seems in line. I like directness myself, and of his generation find him pretty much the most generous with the flow of that speak which is why I published the chap and gave him some money. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmetres Thu Jun 28 09:33:12 2007 From: pmetres (Philip Metres) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] new poetry blog: behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com Message-ID: <20070628093312.AKN42868@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Folks, I'm sorry to say that I've joined the blogosphere. I'm working on poetry's affinities toward cultural work, particularly around war resistance and peacemaking. If you have a poem or item of interest that could be included, email me. Thanks. Some recent posts: Len Sousa's Poetry/Music Mashups: Lowell's "For the Union Dead" Meets Philip Glass Baring Witness: Donna Sheehan and "For the Fifty" Penny Allen and the National Campaign for a Peace Tax Rebecca Solnit and Reasons for Hope Gambling on Non-Violence: An Interview with Ralph DiGia >From Vietnam to September 11th: An Interview with Robert Bly Poetry and the Peace Movement Opening Salvo http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From jforjames Thu Jun 28 10:13:48 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:13:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <712DCC9B-7959-460E-8A2B-3C3187E52315@ripon.edu> References: <004801c7b8fa$a4176580$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <712DCC9B-7959-460E-8A2B-3C3187E52315@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <8C987A5AE3212C2-9FC-3B51@WEBMAIL-RB05.sysops.aol.com> I have to agree with you that Goldbarth is not 'minimal' in anyway. He can be a bit too?maximal at times...self-indulgently so, at times.?With an everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of erudition displayed in certain poems. Poets get placed very early on in their careers as in this camp or the other. Once you're in one camp,?it's hard for the other side to acknowledge?whatever merits?in your work?they might admire. Is there any recent avant (post/pre/neo)?as good as with the absurdist hijinxs as James Tate, and yet he's most acknowledged among the mainstream? Fortunately time often blurs the boundaries. (A couple of year ago Ron Silliman was making a good case for an avant-gardist Marianne Moore, as I recall.) Re David Antin:?Antin?doesn't seem to?qualify?for the 'ultra' or ultratalk. He's a wide-ranging talker but he?tends?to flow or move a?little more purposefully?with/through his material, and is. in some ways. a prose poet, I feel. Then?I'm not?as familiar?with work as some?others are, I'm sure.?Maybe there are?some poems that have the frenetic and almost crazed,?mind in hyperdrive aspect that, for me,?gives the poem its 'ultra'. In?'ultra-talk' isn't?the 'talkiness' just the starting point?? Finnegan? -----Original Message----- From: David Graham Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 6:16 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth Honestly, I don't recognize Goldbarth's work in descriptors like "tired," "slacker," "defeatism," etc.--could well be I'm missing Skip's point, but to my mind Goldbarth at his best is wonderfully energetic, inventive, loopy, raw-boned, and densely layered. ? In fact, if there's a single word that screamingly does *not* apply to any aspect of Goldbarth, stylistic or thematic, I'd nominate "minimal."? He's the poster boy of Maximalism.? Most critiques of his work I've seen, in fact, take him to task for his relentless sprawl, his more-more-more aesthetic (he in turn nods to such critics by titling his recent new-and-selected collection *The Kitchen Sink*).?? But apart from our different takes on specific poets, one thing that's mighty intriguing to me is the way that this discussion has begun to blur certain battle lines, finding possible commonalities among poets not often considered together--e.g. Antin & Kirby, Goldbarth & O'Hara, Mayer & Hoagland.? And I like the way Williams has infiltrated the discussion, especially his later discursive works like "The Desert Music". In regard to Goldbarth, I've often wondered why his work seems so invisible to most folks on the lang-po side of things.? Despite his mainstream credentials, he's always made a lot of moves that we think of as firmly otherstream & postmodern in nature--his habit of anatomizing language itself; his fractured narratives; his blurring of the prose/verse boundary as well as the distinction between essay and poem; his process poetics; his continual metapoetic gesturing; his use of linguistic collage; etc.?? Another poet who ought to be more highly regarded by the experimentalist wing, I've always thought, is A. R. Ammons.?? As far as I'm concerned, "ultra-talk" as a category is best kept loosely defined, mostly useful in the way it points toward an interesting trend on the current scene, one with some deep & interesting roots.? I'm enjoying this thread a lot. -- On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Skip Fox wrote: And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O?Hara, Mayer, Antin and Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don?t even think of Goldbarth ?when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting defeatism, a sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who has found nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very much to say in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. ?By the gate now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to clear them away? Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula of this state in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost in love). Why _do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath their lines. I?d rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a misreading of Williams) lead to this, since I believe the discursive force that comes through Pound or Williams or Olson through O?Hara et al., does not sprawl. Is that a viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit in a loosely held line compared to an energetic discovery of what there is to know, realize, think about, feel, write and read, in a unique but recognizably talkative line? ? That?s my initial impression, but I?m open to persuasion. ? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryseiler Thu Jun 28 10:22:06 2007 From: barryseiler (barry seiler) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:22:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <8C987A5AE3212C2-9FC-3B51@WEBMAIL-RB05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You're right about Antin. When he does a talk poem, he picks a topic and improvises at the venue. How much preparation he does, I'm not sure. The talks are discursive, anecdotal, but always with the thread of the topic to follow. On the page, the experience is quite different. I wouldn't call him a prose poet. Perhaps a poet who works in prose? Way back he said if Robert Lowell is a poet, he doesn't want to be one. Barry Seiler >From: jforjames at aol.com >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:13:48 -0400 > >I have to agree with you that Goldbarth is not 'minimal' in anyway. He can >be a bit too? maximal at times...self-indulgently so, at times.? With an >everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of erudition displayed in certain >poems. > >Poets get placed very early on in their careers as in this camp or the >other. Once you're in one camp,? it's hard for the other side to >acknowledge? whatever merits? in your work? they might admire. >Is there any recent avant (post/pre/neo)? as good as with the absurdist >hijinxs as James Tate, and yet he's most acknowledged among the mainstream? >Fortunately time often blurs the boundaries. (A couple of year ago Ron >Silliman was making a good case for an avant-gardist Marianne Moore, as I >recall.) > >Re David Antin:? Antin? doesn't seem to? qualify? for the 'ultra' or >ultratalk. He's a wide-ranging talker but he? tends? to flow or move a? >little more purposefully? with/through his material, and is. in some ways. >a prose poet, I feel. Then? I'm not? as familiar? with work as some? others >are, I'm sure.? Maybe there are? some poems that have the frenetic and >almost crazed,? mind in hyperdrive aspect that, for me,? gives the poem its >'ultra'. > >In? 'ultra-talk' isn't? the 'talkiness' just the starting point?? > >Finnegan? > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Graham >Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 6:16 pm >Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth > > >Honestly, I don't recognize Goldbarth's work in descriptors like "tired," >"slacker," "defeatism," etc.--could well be I'm missing Skip's point, but >to my mind Goldbarth at his best is wonderfully energetic, inventive, >loopy, raw-boned, and densely layered. ? In fact, if there's a single word >that screamingly does *not* apply to any aspect of Goldbarth, stylistic or >thematic, I'd nominate "minimal."? He's the poster boy of Maximalism.? >Most critiques of his work I've seen, in fact, take him to task for his >relentless sprawl, his more-more-more aesthetic (he in turn nods to such >critics by titling his recent new-and-selected collection *The Kitchen >Sink*).? ? > > > >But apart from our different takes on specific poets, one thing that's >mighty intriguing to me is the way that this discussion has begun to blur >certain battle lines, finding possible commonalities among poets not often >considered together--e.g. Antin & Kirby, Goldbarth & O'Hara, Mayer & >Hoagland.? And I like the way Williams has infiltrated the discussion, >especially his later discursive works like "The Desert Music". > > > > >In regard to Goldbarth, I've often wondered why his work seems so invisible >to most folks on the lang-po side of things.? Despite his mainstream >credentials, he's always made a lot of moves that we think of as firmly >otherstream & postmodern in nature--his habit of anatomizing language >itself; his fractured narratives; his blurring of the prose/verse boundary >as well as the distinction between essay and poem; his process poetics; his >continual metapoetic gesturing; his use of linguistic collage; etc.? ? > > > > >Another poet who ought to be more highly regarded by the experimentalist >wing, I've always thought, is A. R. Ammons.? ? > > > > >As far as I'm concerned, "ultra-talk" as a category is best kept loosely >defined, mostly useful in the way it points toward an interesting trend on >the current scene, one with some deep & interesting roots.? I'm enjoying >this thread a lot. > > > > > > >-- > > >On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > > >And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O???Hara, Mayer, Antin >and Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don???t even think of >Goldbarth ? when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting >defeatism, a sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who >has found nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very >much to say in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. >???By the gate now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to >clear them away??? Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula >of this state in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost >in love). Why _do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath >their lines. I???d rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a >misreading of Williams) lead to this, since I believe the discursive force >that comes through Pound or Williams or Olson through O???Hara et al., does >not sprawl. Is that a viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit >in a loosely held line compared to an energetic discovery of what there is >to know, realize, think about, feel, write and read, in a unique but >recognizably talkative line? > >? > > >That???s my initial impression, but I???m open to persuasion. > >? > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >from AOL at AOL.com. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Don?t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ From jforjames Thu Jun 28 10:39:47 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:39:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Dan Boehl In-Reply-To: <601485.50353.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C987A94F3CFC1A-9FC-3CAC@WEBMAIL-RB05.sysops.aol.com> Did you say that Bill Knott picked Boehl? I notice that Boehl got his MFA at Emerson. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: David Baratier To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 3:53 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Dan Boehl I like the notion of "ultra-talk" it just sounds so instantly marketable, and yes O' Hara, and Koch seem?right with the notion, so does Mark Halliday, not from what I have read, but?from what I remember?hearing reading with him, yes it all seems in line. I like directness myself, and of his generation find him pretty much the most generous with the flow of?that speak?which is why I published the chap and gave him some money. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jun 28 11:04:30 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:04:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C987ACC3937032-9FC-3DF3@WEBMAIL-RB05.sysops.aol.com> And yet?Lowell was a 'talker' too in many poems. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: barry seiler To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:22 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth You're right about Antin. When he does a talk poem, he picks a topic and improvises at the venue. How much preparation he does, I'm not sure. The talks are discursive, anecdotal, but always with the thread of the topic to follow. On the page, the experience is quite different. I wouldn't call him a prose poet. Perhaps a poet who works in prose? Way back he said if Robert Lowell is a poet, he doesn't want to be one.? Barry Seiler? ? >From: jforjames at aol.com? >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" >? >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth? >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:13:48 -0400? >? >I have to agree with you that Goldbarth is not 'minimal' in anyway. He can >be a bit too? maximal at times...self-indulgently so, at times.? With an >everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of erudition displayed in certain >poems.? >? >Poets get placed very early on in their careers as in this camp or the >other. Once you're in one camp,? it's hard for the other side to >acknowledge? whatever merits? in your work? they might admire.? >Is there any recent avant (post/pre/neo)? as good as with the absurdist >hijinxs as James Tate, and yet he's most acknowledged among the mainstream? >Fortunately time often blurs the boundaries. (A couple of year ago Ron >Silliman was making a good case for an avant-gardist Marianne Moore, as I >recall.)? >? >Re David Antin:? Antin? doesn't seem to? qualify? for the 'ultra' or >ultratalk. He's a wide-ranging talker but he? tends? to flow or move a? >little more purposefully? with/through his material, and is. in some ways. >a prose poet, I feel. Then? I'm not? as familiar? with work as some? others >are, I'm sure.? Maybe there are? some poems that have the frenetic and >almost crazed,? mind in hyperdrive aspect that, for me,? gives the poem its >'ultra'.? >? >In? 'ultra-talk' isn't? the 'talkiness' just the starting point??? >? >Finnegan?? >? >? >? >-----Original Message-----? >From: David Graham ? >Bcc: jforjames at aol.com? >Sent: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 6:16 pm? >Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth? >? >? >Honestly, I don't recognize Goldbarth's work in descriptors like "tired," >"slacker," "defeatism," etc.--could well be I'm missing Skip's point, but >to my mind Goldbarth at his best is wonderfully energetic, inventive, >loopy, raw-boned, and densely layered. ? In fact, if there's a single word >that screamingly does *not* apply to any aspect of Goldbarth, stylistic or >thematic, I'd nominate "minimal."? He's the poster boy of Maximalism.? >Most critiques of his work I've seen, in fact, take him to task for his >relentless sprawl, his more-more-more aesthetic (he in turn nods to such >critics by titling his recent new-and-selected collection *The Kitchen >Sink*).? ?? >? >? >? >But apart from our different takes on specific poets, one thing that's >mighty intriguing to me is the way that this discussion has begun to blur >certain battle lines, finding possible commonalities among poets not often >considered together--e.g. Antin & Kirby, Goldbarth & O'Hara, Mayer & >Hoagland.? And I like the way Williams has infiltrated the discussion, >especially his later discursive works like "The Desert Music".? >? >? >? >? >In regard to Goldbarth, I've often wondered why his work seems so invisible >to most folks on the lang-po side of things.? Despite his mainstream >credentials, he's always made a lot of moves that we think of as firmly >otherstream & postmodern in nature--his habit of anatomizing language >itself; his fractured narratives; his blurring of the prose/verse boundary >as well as the distinction between essay and poem; his process poetics; his >continual metapoetic gesturing; his use of linguistic collage; etc.? ?? >? >? >? >? >Another poet who ought to be more highly regarded by the experimentalist >wing, I've always thought, is A. R. Ammons.? ?? >? >? >? >? >As far as I'm concerned, "ultra-talk" as a category is best kept loosely >defined, mostly useful in the way it points toward an interesting trend on >the current scene, one with some deep & interesting roots.? I'm enjoying >this thread a lot.? >? >? >? >? >? >? >--? >? >? >On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Skip Fox wrote:? >? >? >? >? >And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O???Hara, Mayer, Antin >and Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don???t even think of >Goldbarth ? when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting >defeatism, a sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who >has found nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very >much to say in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. >???By the gate now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to >clear them away??? Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula >of this state in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost >in love). Why _do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath >their lines. I???d rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a >misreading of Williams) lead to this, since I believe the discursive force >that comes through Pound or Williams or Olson through O???Hara et al., does >not sprawl. Is that a viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit >in a loosely held line compared to an energetic discovery of what there is >to know, realize, think about, feel, write and read, in a unique but >recognizably talkative line?? >? >?? >? >? >That???s my initial impression, but I???m open to persuasion.? >? >?? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >________________________________________________________________________? >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >from AOL at AOL.com.? ? >_______________________________________________? >New-Poetry mailing list? >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ? _________________________________________________________________? Don?t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Jun 28 11:20:43 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:20:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reminds me of Bruce Andrews reading at the Ear Inn once upon a time. He seemed to read from a sheaf of pages but what came out his mouth was a mile-a-minute flow of words incorporating, as I gradually noticed, bits and pieces of conversations going on behind him in the bar, where, of course, business was proceding as usual. Talk about ultra. Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jun 28, 2007, at 9:22 AM, barry seiler wrote: > You're right about Antin. When he does a talk poem, he picks a > topic and improvises at the venue. How much preparation he does, > I'm not sure. The talks are discursive, anecdotal, but always with > the thread of the topic to follow. On the page, the experience is > quite different. I wouldn't call him a prose poet. Perhaps a poet > who works in prose? Way back he said if Robert Lowell is a poet, he > doesn't want to be one. > Barry Seiler From halvard Thu Jun 28 11:56:00 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:56:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 12, Summer 2007, Now Online! Message-ID: <029FA05B-CBF0-45BF-819D-2ACA6D76F08A@earthlink.net> ************************************************************************ ******* Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 12, Summer 2007, Now Online! Featuring poetry by Rochelle Ratner, Davide Trame, Bob Marcacci, Philip Byron Oakes, Ashok Nioyogi, Jessy Randall & Daniel M. Shapiro, John M. Bennett, Mark DuCharme, Amanda Silbernagel, CL Bledsoe, Doug Ramspeck, and Jenn Blair; fiction by Robert Miltner, Chris Semansky, Daniel Coshnear, Mary Chang, Tom Fillion, Nelson Eshleman, and Semia Harbawi; and nonfiction by Judith Jenya. http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr12.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------- Submissions to Hamilton Stone Review Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry, fiction and nonfiction for Issue #13, which will be out in October 2007. Poetry submissions should go, only by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net. Send fiction and nonfiction submissions to Lynda Schor at lyndaschor at earthlink.net. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------- Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ PLEASE SEND THIS ANNOUNCEMENT ALONG TO OTHERS ********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Thu Jun 28 13:17:36 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:17:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <8C987ACC3937032-9FC-3DF3@WEBMAIL-RB05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003c01c7b9a8$3df1a780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> That was a funny quote. It went something like ?If Robert Frost is a poet, I don?t want to be a poet. If Robert Lowell is a poet, I don?t want to be a poet. If F.T. Prince is a poet . . . I?ll consider it.? (Antin) I didn?t mean to be so dismissive of Goldbarth. I have only an impression of him so it was not fair to lump him in with the slacker poets. The question on Ammons is a great one. I sense a reason why the experimental poets usually don?t include him in a way they easily do, for instance, John Ashbery. But I?d be hard put to articulate the reason. I know I don?t go to Ammons much but when I do I?m pleasantly surprised. In the Spring semester some grad students came to me, asking me to fill a sudden hole in a conference panel by reading scatological poetry (I guess they knew where to come), but instead of reading my own I read poems from Latin literature and Swift to the present including Ammons, the last one of which took my breath away, not because of a negative reaction to its subject matter, but because of it?s beauty. I?ll return to Goldbarth and try to look up the Ammons piece. -----Original Message----- From: barry seiler To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:22 am Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth You're right about Antin. When he does a talk poem, he picks a topic and improvises at the venue. How much preparation he does, I'm not sure. The talks are discursive, anecdotal, but always with the thread of the topic to follow. On the page, the experience is quite different. I wouldn't call him a prose poet. Perhaps a poet who works in prose? Way back he said if Robert Lowell is a poet, he doesn't want to be one. Barry Seiler >From: jforjames at aol.com >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 10:13:48 -0400 > >I have to agree with you that Goldbarth is not 'minimal' in anyway. He can >be a bit too? maximal at times...self-indulgently so, at times.? With an >everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kind of erudition displayed in certain >poems. > >Poets get placed very early on in their careers as in this camp or the >other. Once you're in one camp,? it's hard for the other side to >acknowledge? whatever merits? in your work? they might admire. >Is there any recent avant (post/pre/neo)? as good as with the absurdist >hijinxs as James Tate, and yet he's most acknowledged among the mainstream? >Fortunately time often blurs the boundaries. (A couple of year ago Ron >Silliman was making a good case for an avant-gardist Marianne Moore, as I >recall.) > >Re David Antin:? Antin? doesn't seem to? qualify? for the 'ultra' or >ultratalk. He's a wide-ranging talker but he? tends? to flow or move a? >little more purposefully? with/through his material, and is. in some ways. >a prose poet, I feel. Then? I'm not? as familiar? with work as some? others >are, I'm sure.? Maybe there are? some poems that have the frenetic and >almost crazed,? mind in hyperdrive aspect that, for me,? gives the poem its >'ultra'. > >In? 'ultra-talk' isn't? the 'talkiness' just the starting point?? > >Finnegan? > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Graham >Bcc: jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 6:16 pm >Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth > > >Honestly, I don't recognize Goldbarth's work in descriptors like "tired," >"slacker," "defeatism," etc.--could well be I'm missing Skip's point, but >to my mind Goldbarth at his best is wonderfully energetic, inventive, >loopy, raw-boned, and densely layered. ? In fact, if there's a single word >that screamingly does *not* apply to any aspect of Goldbarth, stylistic or >thematic, I'd nominate "minimal."? He's the poster boy of Maximalism.? >Most critiques of his work I've seen, in fact, take him to task for his >relentless sprawl, his more-more-more aesthetic (he in turn nods to such >critics by titling his recent new-and-selected collection *The Kitchen >Sink*).? ? > > > >But apart from our different takes on specific poets, one thing that's >mighty intriguing to me is the way that this discussion has begun to blur >certain battle lines, finding possible commonalities among poets not often >considered together--e.g. Antin & Kirby, Goldbarth & O'Hara, Mayer & >Hoagland.? And I like the way Williams has infiltrated the discussion, >especially his later discursive works like "The Desert Music". > > > > >In regard to Goldbarth, I've often wondered why his work seems so invisible >to most folks on the lang-po side of things.? Despite his mainstream >credentials, he's always made a lot of moves that we think of as firmly >otherstream & postmodern in nature--his habit of anatomizing language >itself; his fractured narratives; his blurring of the prose/verse boundary >as well as the distinction between essay and poem; his process poetics; his >continual metapoetic gesturing; his use of linguistic collage; etc.? ? > > > > >Another poet who ought to be more highly regarded by the experimentalist >wing, I've always thought, is A. R. Ammons.? ? > > > > >As far as I'm concerned, "ultra-talk" as a category is best kept loosely >defined, mostly useful in the way it points toward an interesting trend on >the current scene, one with some deep & interesting roots.? I'm enjoying >this thread a lot. > > > > > > >-- > > >On Jun 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > > > > >And I would like to know what is different in Koch, O???Hara, Mayer, Antin >and Equi than in Goldbarth, who bores me? But I don???t even think of >Goldbarth ? when I thought of slacker poetry, yet he has the same lilting >defeatism, a sense that the world in minimal, the exhausted feel of one who >has found nothing (maybe without looking very hard) and has nothing very >much to say in the face of it. Tired. End of century. Nerf existentialism. >???By the gate now, the moss has grown, the different mosses, / Too deep to >clear them away??? Pound translates Li Po providing precisely the formula >of this state in a young woman (but she had cause! She was lonely and lost >in love). Why _do_ anything, even write, I seem to hear them ask beneath >their lines. I???d rather think that the relaxations of Lowell (via a >misreading of Williams) lead to this, since I believe the discursive force >that comes through Pound or Williams or Olson through O???Hara et al., does >not sprawl. Is that a viable difference? The shrug and self-deprecating wit >in a loosely held line compared to an energetic discovery of what there is >to know, realize, think about, feel, write and read, in a unique but >recognizably talkative line? > >? > > >That???s my initial impression, but I???m open to persuasion. > >? > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free >from AOL at AOL.com. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Don?t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Jun 28 13:21:12 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:21:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 12, Summer 2007, Now Online! In-Reply-To: <029FA05B-CBF0-45BF-819D-2ACA6D76F08A@earthlink.net> References: <029FA05B-CBF0-45BF-819D-2ACA6D76F08A@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Apologies to Reamy Jansen, whose name should be among the fiction writers below. On Jun 28, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > ********************************************************************** > ********* > > Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 12, Summer 2007, Now Online! > > > Featuring poetry by Rochelle Ratner, Davide Trame, Bob Marcacci, > > Philip Byron Oakes, Ashok Nioyogi, Jessy Randall & Daniel M. Shapiro, > > John M. Bennett, Mark DuCharme, Amanda Silbernagel, CL Bledsoe, > > Doug Ramspeck, and Jenn Blair; fiction by Robert Miltner, Chris > Semansky, > > Daniel Coshnear, Mary Chang, Tom Fillion, Nelson Eshleman, and > > Semia Harbawi; and nonfiction by Judith Jenya. > > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr12.html > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------- > > > Submissions to Hamilton Stone Review > > > Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of poetry, fiction and > nonfiction > > for Issue #13, which will be out in October 2007. Poetry > submissions should go, > > only by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at > halvard at earthlink.net. Send fiction > > and nonfiction submissions to Lynda Schor at > lyndaschor at earthlink.net. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------- > > > Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions > > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ > > > PLEASE SEND THIS ANNOUNCEMENT ALONG TO OTHERS > > > ********************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Thu Jun 28 16:05:22 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:05:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ammons, from "The Ridge Farm": In-Reply-To: <003c01c7b9a8$3df1a780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <000e01c7b9bf$aea3c910$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> from "The Ridge Farm" by A.R. Ammons considering mutability and muck, transforming compositions and decompositions, ups and downs, comings and goings, you have, sir, passed from a thousand orifices, some beneath you on the evolutionary scale: visibly moved, the gentleman got some roll-on ban deodorant and tried to rub me off (or out): shit sticks: its fragrance in the ld days confirmed the caveman he was coming home: a man's shit (or tribe's) reflects (nasally) the physical makeup of the man and the physiologies of those others present, plus what they have gathered from the environment to pass through themselves the odor of shit is like language, an unmistakable assimilation of a use, tone, flavor, accent hard to fake: enemy shit smells like the enemy: everything is more nearly incredible than you thought at first. (thanks to http://scatalogue.blogspot.com/ ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jun 28 17:56:23 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:56:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <003c01c7b9a8$3df1a780$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C987E64DC10539-8D4-5280@FWM-R06.sysops.aol.com> ?If Robert Frost is a poet, I don?t want to be a poet. If Robert Lowell is a poet, I don?t want to be a poet. If F.T. Prince is a poet . . . I?ll consider it.? (Antin) That is a curious remark...I've not heard FT Prince's name in years. I don't know when he said it, but at date,?it sounds like he's saying "I'll consider being a forgotten British?poet, but not a famous American poet." Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jun 29 14:55:37 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:55:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <8C987E64DC10539-8D4-5280@FWM-R06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c7ba7f$1b10d790$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I think I understand it . . . if that's the accurate quote (sometimes it's a crapshoot with me). F. T. Prince was a formal poet like the other two but had qualities Antin liked. Perhaps this is my projection, but Prince has an energetic thrust of mind, feel of words as entities, and created such a lustrous surface on the page that might attract Antin over the wry and coy (Frost), or or the exhausted intellect (Lowell), no matter how refined, no matter how "right." Like I say, maybe my projection. F.T. Prince, by the way, was on an album of readings from St. Mark's. Stunning. I highly recommend his work if you come across it. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:56 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth "If Robert Frost is a poet, I don't want to be a poet. If Robert Lowell is a poet, I don't want to be a poet. If F.T. Prince is a poet . . . I'll consider it." (Antin) That is a curious remark...I've not heard FT Prince's name in years. I don't know when he said it, but at date, it sounds like he's saying "I'll consider being a forgotten British poet, but not a famous American poet." Finnegan _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Jun 29 15:56:43 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:56:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <000001c7ba7f$1b10d790$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <8C9889EC07528B9-2F8-801C@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> I need to go back and read some Prince?this weekend?and then maybe I can get a clue to Antin's remark. I heard him read many years back...but haven't had much ocassion to read him since. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Skip Fox Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 2:55 pm Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth I think I understand it . . . if that?s the accurate quote (sometimes it?s a crapshoot with me). F. T. Prince was a formal poet like the other two but had qualities Antin liked. Perhaps this is my projection, but Prince has an energetic thrust of mind, feel of words as entities, and created such a lustrous surface on the page that might attract Antin over the wry and coy (Frost), or or the exhausted intellect (Lowell), no matter how refined, no matter how ?right.? Like I say, maybe my projection. ? F.T. Prince, by the way, was on an album of readings from St. Mark?s. Stunning. I highly recommend his work if you come across it. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Fri Jun 29 21:34:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:34:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk & Goldbarth Message-ID: Another related clan are some of the performance/slam poets who work in a vein closely akin to 'ultra-talk'. I'm thinking of p-poets like Beth Lisick and Maggie Estep, but there are many more. Where the confessional and stand-up comedy meet. Much more fun than late lax Ammons. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 30 02:18:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:18:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Sibila 12 en el aire.... Cuba Hoy Message-ID: <006701c7bade$79262ec0$a7ab3452@ANNY> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:41 AM Subject: Sibila 12 en el aire.... Cuba Hoy Estimados amigos, Est? no website o n?mero 12 de Sibila, que tem como tema CUBA HOY http://sibila.com.br Abrazos em portunhol R?gis Bonvicino ps: convido a todos a enviarem material para Sibila. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Jun 30 10:31:29 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:31:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Milosz Message-ID: <4B7CF726-7A63-424A-9922-94386FCC7191@ripon.edu> On his birthday, a poem. BLACKSMITH SHOP I liked the bellows operated by rope. A hand or foot pedal--I don?t remember which. But that blowing, and the blazing of the fire! And a piece of iron in the fire, held there by tongs, Red, softened for the anvil, Beaten with the hammer, bent into a horseshoe, Thrown in a bucket of water, sizzle, steam. And horses hitched to be shod, Tossing their manes; and in the grass by the river Plowshares, sledge runners, harrows waiting for repair At the entrance, my bare feet on the dirt floor, Here, gusts of heat; at my back, white clouds. I stare and stare. It seems I was called for this: To glorify things just because they are. --Czeslaw Milosz, trans. Someone. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LauraHeidy Sat Jun 30 17:09:33 2007 From: LauraHeidy (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:09:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] new poetry blog: behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com Message-ID: In a message dated 6/28/2007 9:33:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pmetres at jcu.edu writes: Folks, I'm sorry to say that I've joined the blogosphere. I'm working on poetry's affinities toward cultural work, particularly around war resistance and peacemaking. If you have a poem or item of interest that could be included, email me. Thanks. No reason at all to be sorry. It's a very interesting site. I've enjoyed rummaging through it and I look forward to additional posts. Thanks for the link. Lo _www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com_ (http://www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Jun 1 02:24:58 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:24:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection betweenBusiness and Poetry In-Reply-To: <005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> Message-ID: and wallace stevens was in insurance, and ts eliot a banker (no punintended) but none of them tried to fuse poetry, business andmediocrity in precisely the same way as Gioia. and I've read Gioia.Eliot is, I would say, Gioia's polar opposite in poetry. On 5/31/07, Anny Ballardini wrote:>>> I didn't read enough work by Dana Gioia to speculate on the quality, but I> would like to remind people that Leonardo was excellent in engineering and> in painting, Pessoa spent his life inside an office, we all know of Kafka,> and there are plenty more if we give it a tiny thought.>> From the interview to Dana Gioia:>> "For that reason, I did not let anyone I worked with know that I was a poet.> This is because, let me ask you a question, if you had a poet working for> you, wouldn't you check his or her addition? So privately I went through a> very difficult time. That being said, as you rise in business, as you get> out of the lower level staff jobs and the quantitative analysis, and you get> into the higher level of problems, I felt that I had an enormous advantage> over my colleagues because I had a background in the imagination, in> language and in literature.">>> ----- Original Message -----> From: amy king> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:16 PM> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close Connection> betweenBusiness and Poetry>> Dana Gioia and John Barr should throw down one day, wrestling over who has> more moxy when it comes to making money out of art while simultaneously> making insipid remarks about the state of poetry past, present, future. Who> would win that title?>>> jforjames at aol.com wrote:>> http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1745&source=rss> Dana Gioia on the Close Connection between Business and Poetry> Published: May 30, 2007 in Knowledge at Wharton> This article has been read 1,593 Times> ????> ?> Dana Gioia (pronounced Joy-a) claims to be the only person in history who> went to business school to be a poet. Having earned a degree from Stanford's> graduate school of business, he worked 15 years in corporate life,> eventually becoming vice president of General Foods. In 1991, Gioia wrote an> influential collection of essays titled, "Can Poetry Matter?" in which he> explored, among other themes, the nexus between business and poetry. Since> 2002, he has been chairman of the National Endowment of the Arts where he> has overseen programs aimed at making Shakespeare and poetry recitation more> popular in the U.S. Gioia, who is a speaker at the Wharton Leadership> Conference in Philadelphia on June 7, talked about these ideas with> management professor Michael Useem and Knowledge at Wharton.>>>>>> ________________________________> Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of> spyware protection.>> ________________________________>>> _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>>>>>> _______________________________________________> New-Poetry mailing list> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>> -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From bobgrumman Fri Jun 1 08:13:41 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:13:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close ConnectionbetweenBusiness and Poetry References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> fde503480705312324o18635887ra20ca3ed3131c55d@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <001a01c7a446$4f5169b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I think Gioia's saying he had a "background in imagination" says it all. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 1 07:16:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:16:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella Message-ID: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start looking for the corpse right there. Alfred Hitchcock -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 08:20:44 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 08:20:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella In-Reply-To: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> References: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706010520m76305959v6012eea80c7069fe@mail.gmail.com> I love this, Anny. Do you have a source? Jeff On 6/1/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start > looking for the corpse right there. > > Alfred Hitchcock > > ------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 1 10:23:24 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:23:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella References: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> <731bb17a0706010520m76305959v6012eea80c7069fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007901c7a458$6aa19480$2aa93852@ANNY> I don't. I receive a mail : Buongiorno (= Good morning) with a different quotation every day, 99.9999% not worth quoting but I've never taken the needed 5 minutes to unsubscribe. What is funny is that I always read them. From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:20 PM I love this, Anny. Do you have a source? Jeff On 6/1/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start looking for the corpse right there. Alfred Hitchcock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 10:29:00 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:29:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism Message-ID: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 11:21:52 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:21:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com> A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 1 12:22:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 18:22:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker Fri Jun 1 12:56:16 2007 From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 12:56:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] two unrelated subjects Message-ID: Hi, Jeff. My colleague Suzanne Churchill's recent book on little magazines would be worth your while: _The Little Magazine *Others* and the Renovation of Modern American Poetry_ (Ashgate, 2006). Also, to all... I offer condolences to the family of poet Sarah Hannah, who died last week, and urge all on the list to read and re-read her fine first collection, _Longing Distance_, from Tupelo (www.tupelopress.org). Sarah will be missed. Take care, friends, AMP From acgold01 Fri Jun 1 13:43:16 2007 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:43:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism Message-ID: <46602271.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Jeff, The potential list is awfully long, as I'm sure you can imagine, but one place to start for your purposes might be the recent essay collection edited by Walter Kalaidjian, Cambridge Guide to American Modernism. Part of what's useful in this gathering is that it reflects all the changes in thinking about and definitions of modernism since Kenner organized *his* version of modernism around 4-5 male authors. I still think *The Pound Era* is a great book, but I also think it belongs to the history of modernist criticism rather than offering a perspective that's still viable in 2007. All best, Alan From jeff.newberry Fri Jun 1 14:10:33 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:10:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <46602271.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> References: <46602271.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706011110m1b13a347wbfdacce008046fc5@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Alan. I appreciate your suggestion. Best, Jeff On 6/1/07, Alan C Golding wrote: > > Jeff, > > The potential list is awfully long, as I'm sure you can imagine, but one > place to start for your purposes might be the recent essay collection edited > by Walter Kalaidjian, Cambridge Guide to American Modernism. Part of what's > useful in this gathering is that it reflects all the changes in thinking > about and definitions of modernism since Kenner organized *his* version of > modernism around 4-5 male authors. I still think *The Pound Era* is a great > book, but I also think it belongs to the history of modernist criticism > rather than offering a perspective that's still viable in 2007. > > All best, > > Alan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Fri Jun 1 17:30:25 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:30:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cinderella In-Reply-To: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> References: <006201c7a43e$442c4cb0$2aa93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46608FF1.5010207@opus40.org> And I suppose if I did Cinderella, people would wonder when she was going to get naked. Anny Ballardini wrote: > As a director, I am labelled. If I did Cinderella, people would start > looking for the corpse right there. > > Alfred Hitchcock > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From editor Fri Jun 1 22:27:50 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 19:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Len Roberts Message-ID: <178403.7920.qm@web83829.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I knew Len very well for a number of years, he was a nice guy, part of the group through West Branch that accepted me in my mid twenties in some form of admiration that included Jim Daniels and Billy Collins. Therefore I was really feeling this one, Len even judged our first chapbook contest, cause Gerald Stern convinced me, wanted a chap out from us that I never got around to. Len always had narrative poetry mostly about religion based experiences from somewhere in upstate NY. I think when I presented at AWP in 1999 might have been the last time I saw him tho we talked on the phone at other times after. Len was in a persuit of the narrative of James Wright mixed with a heavy influence of Lowell and the confessionals. There was a book that had something about Black angels that seemed his best from the half dozen he sent over the decades. I am just surprised-- it reminds me of something I was told which might be the best elegy in some way, as when Len talked as a peer he: "talked about motivation, the feeling, the unsound that is around the universe. They explain everything to one understanding. They bring it all together, and when they finish, just one word comes out. Just one word. They might talk all day, and just one word comes out." --Wallace Black Elk All I can think of, I have called who I needed to, go from there. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 2 14:15:16 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 14:15:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: San Juan Workshops Message-ID: ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: jill patterson Subject: San Juan Workshops Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:38:53 -0500 Size: 9554 URL: From jforjames Sat Jun 2 16:42:22 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:42:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Melanie Simms Message-ID: <8C9736DA79984BA-854-6D0D@WEBMAIL-RD06.sysops.aol.com> Hello! My name is Melanie Simms and I am new to your list. I wanted to write and introduce myself. I am a poet residing in Liverpool, Pa and have been publishing poetry for the past 6 years in numerous national and international poety journals, magazines and newspapers including the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, York Times, Zuzu's Petals, Taj Mahal Review, among many others. You can visit me at my website at www.poetmelaniesimms.net for a background, as well as enjoy free e-cards, links to discounted poetry books and samples of my poetry. Additionally, you can order my book, Waking the Muse online, or via Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com, and various other national and international distributors. ?I very much look forward to meeting everyone; I hope you will visit my website and drop me a note or write me personally at moonspinner at pa.net ? ?Thank you! Yours truly, Melanie Simms www.poetmelaniesimms.net ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Sun Jun 3 13:22:47 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 13:22:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ArtRadio: Historic Audio from PSA Message-ID: <8C9741AF0574630-128-7488@WEBMAIL-MA02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/Itemid,187/ ArtRadio (archive page) http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,98/cat,26/Itemid,187/ ?Index Historic Audio from the Poetry Society of America ------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 3 15:24:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:24:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] submissions for international work Message-ID: <00c001c7a614$d8631f80$36d73152@ANNY> See http://fourw.tumblr.com/ (I love that Wagga Wagga Booranga it tickles me somewhere... :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Jun 3 17:38:49 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:38:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] BizPo: Dana Gioia on the Close ConnectionbetweenBusiness and Poetry In-Reply-To: <001a01c7a446$4f5169b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><005001c7a3a9$19f6be70$acd93052@ANNY> fde503480705312324o18635887ra20ca3ed3131c55d@mail.gmail.com <001a01c7a446$4f5169b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <466334E9.8090209@myuw.net> No kidding. He never struck me as enough of a baudrillardian theorist to make that claim. I guess I underestimated him. Bob Grumman wrote: > I think Gioia's saying he had a "background in imagination" says it all. > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq Sun Jun 3 17:42:50 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:42:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466335DA.4000002@myuw.net> The best book I've read, not to say the best book there is of course, on that topic is Perloff's "21st Century Modernism" for it's reading of stein, eliot, & duchamp. Also, the introductory essay to the Green Integer "Arcanum 17" which I think of as Breton's American Epic is very interesting on the topic of continental modernism in collision with what was going on in the states by the 40s and might point in some interesting directions. Jeff Newberry wrote: > A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry > world: > > One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm > looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a > concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American > Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, > the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. > > I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade > World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. > > I'd appreciate any suggestions. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames Mon Jun 4 08:40:39 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:40:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: In Posse Review Message-ID: _http://webdelsol.com/InPosse/_ (http://webdelsol.com/InPosse/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Jun 4 08:43:59 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:43:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ArtRadio: Historic Audio from PSA Message-ID: In a message dated 6/3/2007 1:23:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jforjames at aol.com writes: _http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/Itemid,187/_ (http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/Itemid,187/) ArtRadio (archive page) _http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,98/cat ,26/Itemid,187/_ (http://www.wps1.org/new_site/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,98/cat,26/Itemid,187/) Index Historic Audio from the Poetry Society of America I listened to the lecture by Ann Carson on Sappho...it was very good, even though she was showing slides and of course those were lacunae of the audio recording. Finnegan _http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Jun 4 11:33:55 2007 From: editor (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:33:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Vandalism? Message-ID: <200706041534.l54FYjwH030243@mail29.atl.registeredsite.com> Greetings, N-P List. The June '07 issue of Why Vandalism? is now online: http://www.whyvandalism.com "may be conceits spoken of and into play the merits they neither sought of nor were a source remote" Posted by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ From jorgensen_a Mon Jun 4 23:39:56 2007 From: jorgensen_a (Jorgensen, Alexander) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 20:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and Art The Cult of the Amateur Message-ID: <158919.20731.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/9cbeed14-fee9-11db-aff2-000b5df10621.html Andrew Keen, a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur, has set the blogosphere alight with his new book, a scathing attack on user-generated content. Sub-titled ?How the Internet is killing our culture?, Keen?s book is a polemic against the ?anything goes? standards of much of online publishing. Keen does not believe in ?the wisdom of the crowd?. Much of the content filling up YouTube, MySpace, and blogs is just an ?an endless digital forest of mediocrity? which, unconstrained by professional standards or editorial filters, can alter public debate and manipulate public opinion He also fears that the free swapping, downloading, mashing-up and aggregating of intellectual property threaten the ability of artists and thinkers with contributions of real value to earn a livelihood from their talents. ?The Cult of the Amateur? is published by Random House on June 5. Andrew Keen will be online to answer questions about his book on Thursday June 7 at 2pm BST (9am EDT). -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 5 02:00:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:00:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Open Mic Poetry NYC June 9th Message-ID: <003401c7a736$dd165790$fbec3652@ANNY> For those in New York! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are invited to attend/participate in an open mic poetry reading on Saturday, June 9th. Saturday, June 9, 2007, 6-8pm Open Mic/Emerging Poets Series $8 donation; wine will be served. Open to all writers and the general public. Poets are encouraged to register: write Maria Villafranca at maria at dactyl.org. There will be a short break in between the readings. Poets plan to read for about 7 minutes. Dactyl Foundation for the Arts and Humanities 64 Grand Street (b/w West Broadway and Wooster) SoHo, New York 10013 212.696.7800 www.dactyl.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 5 06:26:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:26:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lecturer/Senior Lecturer in Film/TV Studies Message-ID: <001301c7a75b$ee555220$43df3652@ANNY> > From: Richard J Ellis [mailto:r.j.ellis at bham.ac.uk] > Sent: maandag 4 juni 2007 11:14 University of Birmingham School of Historical Studies Department of American and Canadian Studies Lecturer/Senior Lecturer in Film/TV Studies As part of a major development of Film and TV Studies at the University of Birmingham, the Department of American and Canadian Studies is seeking to appoint a Lecturer/Senior Lecturer in Film and TV Studies. You will add to the research and teaching strengths of the department and forge links with other departments in the University and institutions outside it. You will currently be working in any area of Film and TV Studies although an interest in American Film/TV Studies and/or Documentary would be an advantage. Lecturer - Starting salary ?32,795 - ?39,160 a year (potential progression on performance once in post to ?44,074 a year). Senior Lecturer - Starting salary ?40,335 - ?46,758 a year (potential progression on performance once in post to ?49,607 a year). Closing date: 3 July 2007 Ref: A44149 Details from: 0121 415 9000 or www.hr.bham.ac.uk/jobs HR, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham B15 2TT. Informal advice is also available from R. J. Ellis (HoD of ACS) 0121 414 5509 A University of Fairness and Diversity. Work-Life Balance Award Winner 2003 and 2004. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 5 08:14:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 14:14:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) Message-ID: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> mIEKAL aND to the Buffalo: 'Laundry letters' worth millions POSTED: 10:31 a.m. EDT, June 4, 2007 http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ index.html LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a Swiss laundry room. The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. One of the rarest and most touching of the collection is a passionate letter written by an apologetic Napoleon to his wife to be, Josephine, the morning after a furious argument. "I send you three kisses -- one on your heart, one on your mouth and one on your eyes," wrote the chastened lover in a spidery scrawl full of corrections and crossings out. The letters, which cover more than 500 years and range across art, science, literature and philosophy, are to be auctioned by Christie's in London on July 3 and are expected to raise up to 2.3 million pounds ($4.6 million). "It really is an incredibly dense, very carefully researched collection," Thomas Venning, director in Christie's books department and a specialist in signed letters, told Reuters. "To get a collection of letters like this nowadays is really a one- off, it's almost unheard of." The owner, Albin Schram, began amassing the archive in the early 1970s, steadily building up one of the largest and most comprehensive collections outside a major museum. Though an inveterate collector, Schram wasn't interested in conservation or display -- the letters were kept in an old metal cabinet in the laundry room of his villa in Lausanne, Switzerland, ordered by size rather than author or date. When he died in 2005, his family barely knew they were there. Schram's interests spanned Russian poets, Argentine authors, French philosophers, English politicians and Italian sculptors. One of the most prized lots, with an auction estimate of up to 120,000 pounds, is a note written by metaphysical poet John Donne to Lady Kingsmill a day after the death of her husband in October 1624. Urging her not to presume to contest God's actions, Donne, who was dean of St Paul's Cathedral at the time, adds: "although we could direct him to do them better." "It's an incredibly moving letter to read," said Venning. "This is one of Britain's greatest poets, a contemporary of Shakespeare, writing at a very emotional time... Not only that, but it's exceptionally rare -- there is perhaps only one other John Donne letter in private hands." Another lot of interest is a letter written by Ernest Hemingway to the American poet and critic Ezra Pound in 1925, explaining why bulls are better than literary critics. "Bulls don't run reviews. Bulls of 25 don't marry old women of 55 and expect to be invited to dinner. Bulls do not get you cited as co- respondent in Society divorce trials. Bulls don't borrow money. Bulls are edible after they have been killed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Tue Jun 5 10:27:42 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 In-Reply-To: <496055.4514.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <292326.38691.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ~~ apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 -- http://apocryphaltextpoetry.com/Vol._%202,_%20No.1/V.2_n.1.htm ~~ Guest Editor: Tim Earley kirsten andersen john m. bennett jessica bozek eric elshtain johannes g?ransson brian howe amy king danielle pafunda tony tost jillian weise ~~ apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 -- http://apocryphaltextpoetry.com/Vol._%202,_%20No.1/V.2_n.1.htm ~~ Scott Malby on apocryphaltext: ?Steven Teref writes in a poem featured in this impressive little journal: "The tunnel is subject to what the eyes fill it with." This quote can also be applied to electronic literary publishing in a number of fascinating ways. In APOCRYPHAL TEXT the literate mixes with garage band and appears to create not only a new vocabulary, but a new language and landscape. Editor Alan May is unerring in his textual choice of print and spacing. He states on his submissions page, "APOCRYPHAL TEXT seeks to publish poets with distinct voices/visions. The idiosyncratic and downright ornery are welcome." This strange little poetry site may well provide a remarkable and perverse glimpse into tomorrow. It is thoroughly embedded in the surreal possibilities and dangers inherent in contemporary literary internet publishing, and yet, as a result of, or because of it, provides a minimal, apocalyptic, starkly appealing vision.? --from Eclectica (http://www.eclectica.org/v11n2/malby_apr_07.html) ~~ apocryphaltext vol. 2, no. 1 -- http://apocryphaltextpoetry.com/Vol._%202,_%20No.1/V.2_n.1.htm ~~ --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Jun 5 10:45:23 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:45:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Offers you can't refuse Message-ID: <534F61D6-9312-4FC6-9F85-401B693B7A40@earthlink.net> Friends and neighbors-- If you haven't gotten your copy of *Tango Bouquet* yet, you can download a copy (.pdf or .doc) from my page at Anny Ballardini's Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content Or you can request a copy (.doc or .pdf, as you prefer) from yours truly. Please put "Tango Bouquet request" in your subject line, lest it be lost. The second book from Vida Loca Books (Hal and Lynda pretending to be publishers--submissions by invitation only, please) is Rochelle Ratner's *Toast Soldiers*. You may also request that bc or find it at her website (google her name and you'll find it). Forthcoming: James Cervantes' *From Mr. Bondo's Unshared Life* Forthcoming: Lynda Schor's *Sex Manual for the Lower Classes* "Getting shot hurts." --Ronald Reagan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Jun 5 16:07:16 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:07:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and Art The Cult of the Amateur In-Reply-To: <158919.20731.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <158919.20731.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C975C43FC0D492-4F0-5184@WEBMAIL-MB17.sysops.aol.com> He writes: ?Millions and millions of exuberant [Internet user] monkeys ? many with no more talent in the creative arts than our primate cousins ? are creating an endless digital forest of mediocrity. For today?s cult of amateur monkeys can use their networked computers to publish everything from uninformed political commentary to unseemly home videos, to embarrassingly amateurish music, to unreadable poems, reviews, essays and novels.? -- I don't see the great?net?threat. (His use of the word monkey reminds me of the old concept that if you had an infinite number of monkeys typing away, then?one of them would randomly type?Shakespeare's King Lear. Wouldn't we like to find the equilavent monkey among the blather and din?) No doubt there is a glut of poor material going up all over the web, but who is really being attracted to it? Are the smart folk somehow?bogged down reviewing or wading through?thousand of hours of insipid video, crank blogs, pathetic poetry, etc? I somehow don't think so. What gets attention deserves attention. This poor Andrew Keen?fellow must methodically read every email (spam included) in his inbox. He's probably not doing too well with his TV remote control?either, painstakingly going one by one through all those channels to find something worthy to watch. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Jorgensen, Alexander To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:39 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and Art The Cult of the Amateur http://www.ft.com/cms/s/9cbeed14-fee9-11db-aff2-000b5df10621.html ? Andrew Keen, a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur, has set the blogosphere alight with his new book, a scathing attack on user-generated content. Sub-titled ?How the Internet is killing our culture?, Keen?s book is a polemic against the ?anything goes? standards of much of online publishing. Keen does not believe in ?the wisdom of the crowd?. Much of the content filling up YouTube, MySpace, and blogs is just an ?an endless digital forest of mediocrity? which, unconstrained by professional standards or editorial filters, can alter public debate and manipulate public opinion He also fears that the free swapping, downloading, mashing-up and aggregating of intellectual property threaten the ability of artists and thinkers with contributions of real value to earn a livelihood from their talents. ?The Cult of the Amateur? is published by Random House on June 5. Andrew Keen will be online to answer questions about his book on Thursday June 7 at 2pm BST (9am EDT). -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.? (Jean-Luc Godard) Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moonspinner Tue Jun 5 16:05:09 2007 From: moonspinner (Melanie Simms) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:05:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Melanie Simms Message-ID: <006701c7a7ac$d2243430$2101a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Hi everyone, I thought you might like to know about my first E-bay bookstore which features old poetry books, biographies on poets and much more. You can find me as PoetAngel41 on Ebay! There's some great books there to bid on, and the bidding starts as low as 4.99. Well... other than that, please write me if you get the time. You can find me at moonspinner at pa.net am looking forward to meeting my fellow poetry listers! Best regards for a happy summer, Melanie Simms www.poetmelaniesimms.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Jun 5 23:00:54 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 23:00:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched Message-ID: _http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773_ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773) By Adam Gopnik Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched Audio for this story will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET Her poems take small subjects and make much of them. In her poetry, a child about to pull a tablecloth from a table becomes the type of every scientist beginning an experiment. ...? All Things Considered, June 5, 2007 ? Every other year, it seems, the Nobel Prize in literature goes to an obscure European writer, full of hard consonants and solemn purposes, whom we all agree to honor for a day and forget all about right after. This list of the Great Obscure is long, but the bright exception to it is the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska, who won the Nobel in 1996. Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. Every month, it seems, I give to someone a copy of one of her books and get for her work, in response, not mere admiration or respect but eyes alight with delight, recognition, laughter and that special kind of happiness that comes from seeing a small truth articulated as a sharp ironic point, an emotion given a shape neither all too familiar nor all too abstract. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Jun 6 09:43:49 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:43:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism In-Reply-To: <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> Message-ID: <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: > > Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; > ABC of Reading by EP > Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 > Guide to Kulchur by EP > A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven > The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell > The Imagist Poem by William Pratt > > then a couple of guides to the Cantos. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism > > > > A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the > NewPoetry world: > > One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm > looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as > a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on > American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the > criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. > > I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade > World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. > > I'd appreciate any suggestions. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jun 6 14:25:14 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:25:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Remembering Auden Message-ID: <8C9767F2925917F-4C4-8AEF@FWM-M32.sysops.aol.com> http://www.christianitytoday.com/books/features/rumorsofglory/070604.html Books & Culture, May/June 2007 RUMORS OF GLORY Remembering Auden And learning how to make sense of his renunciations. By Alan Jacobs | posted 06/04/07 In 2006, as lovers of poetry became aware that the 100th anniversary of W. H. Auden's birth was coming up, some of them began to fret that the event wouldn't receive the attention it deserved. No major celebrations seemed to be forthcoming, in pronounced contrast to the festivals for John Betjeman's centenary that were going on throughout England in the second half of 2006. The BBC gave Betjeman a whole month of festivities, and wasn't Auden a much greater poet, worthy of far more honor? Yes, but ? Betjeman was an enormously popular and beloved poet in England. (Almost the only person who didn't love him was his tutor at Oxford, a young don named C. S. Lewis?not yet a Christian, by the way?who told his diary "I wish I could get rid of the idle prig," and later wrote his pupil a letter which began ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Wed Jun 6 17:01:36 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:01:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9769501798525-1DC4-9181@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> Hmm...Other poets are as unnecessary as grapefruit juice? Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. -----Original Message----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773 By Adam Gopnik ?Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched ? Audio for this story will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET ?? Her poems take small subjects and make much of them. In her poetry, a child about to pull a tablecloth from a table becomes the type of every scientist beginning an experiment. ...? ? ? ?All Things Considered, June 5, 2007 ? Every other year, it seems, the Nobel Prize in literature goes to an obscure European writer, full of hard consonants and solemn purposes, whom we all agree to honor for a day and forget all about right after. ? This list of the Great Obscure is long, but the bright exception to it is the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska, who won the Nobel in 1996. Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. Every month, it seems, I give to someone a copy of one of her books and get for her work, in response, not mere admiration or respect but eyes alight with delight, recognition, laughter and that special kind of happiness that comes from seeing a small truth articulated as a sharp ironic point, an emotion given a shape neither all too familiar nor all too abstract. See what's free at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 6 17:12:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:12:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched References: <8C9769501798525-1DC4-9181@mblk-d30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <010c01c7a87f$700e5950$e3ed064f@ANNY> I like that let's say as unnecessary as complicated algebra... :-( From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 11:01 PM Hmm...Other poets are as unnecessary as grapefruit juice? Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. -----Original Message----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:00 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10721773 By Adam Gopnik Szymborska's 'View': Small Truths Sharply Etched Audio for this story will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET Her poems take small subjects and make much of them. In her poetry, a child about to pull a tablecloth from a table becomes the type of every scientist beginning an experiment. ...? All Things Considered, June 5, 2007 ? Every other year, it seems, the Nobel Prize in literature goes to an obscure European writer, full of hard consonants and solemn purposes, whom we all agree to honor for a day and forget all about right after. This list of the Great Obscure is long, but the bright exception to it is the Polish poet Wislawa Szymborska, who won the Nobel in 1996. Szymborska is not merely a great writer, like many others; she is a necessary writer, as necessary as toast. Every month, it seems, I give to someone a copy of one of her books and get for her work, in response, not mere admiration or respect but eyes alight with delight, recognition, laughter and that special kind of happiness that comes from seeing a small truth articulated as a sharp ironic point, an emotion given a shape neither all too familiar nor all too abstract. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Thu Jun 7 04:26:03 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:26:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3CBD1071-8DC0-4A06-9999-A1EAA46111D8@earthlink.net> or maybe the last three lines... On May 14, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! > > On 5/14/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is mere > repetition... > > respectfully > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: New Poetry > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski > > Sent to me by Anna Guterl: > > so you want to be a writer? > by Charles Bukowski > > > if it doesn't come bursting out of you > > in spite of everything, > > don't do it. > > unless it comes unasked out of your > > heart and your mind and your mouth > > and your gut, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit for hours > > staring at your computer screen > > or hunched over your > > typewriter > > searching for words, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it for money or > > fame, > > don't do it. > > if you're doing it because you want > > women in your bed, > > don't do it. > > if you have to sit there and > > rewrite it again and again, > > don't do it. > > if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, > > don't do it. > > if you're trying to write like somebody > > else, > > forget about it. > > > > if you have to wait for it to roar out of > > you, > > then wait patiently. > > if it never does roar out of you, > > do something else. > > > if you first have to read it to your wife > > or your girlfriend or your boyfriend > > or your parents or to anybody at all, > > you're not ready. > > > don't be like so many writers, > > don't be like so many thousands of > > people who call themselves writers, > > don't be dull and boring and > > pretentious, don't be consumed with self- > > love. > > the libraries of the world have > > yawned themselves to > > sleep > > over your kind. > > don't add to that. > > don't do it. > > unless it comes out of > > your soul like a rocket, > > unless being still would > > drive you to madness or > > suicide or murder, > > don't do it. > > unless the sun inside you is > > burning your gut, > > don't do it. > > > when it is truly time, > > and if you have been chosen, > > it will do it by > > itself and it will keep on doing it > > until you die or it dies in you. > > > there is no other way. > > > and there never was. > > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown > for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they > appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being > obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, > directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an > experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the > intellectual." - Aldous Huxley > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Thu Jun 7 11:13:00 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:13:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by Charles Bukowski In-Reply-To: <3CBD1071-8DC0-4A06-9999-A1EAA46111D8@earthlink.net> References: <009701c7964a$088d9030$898d3052@ANNY> <003101c79670$86a03ba0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <2d5ffa0b0705141442t21e605a4pee062bb37a9e18b8@mail.gmail.com> <3CBD1071-8DC0-4A06-9999-A1EAA46111D8@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4668207C.3090808@opus40.org> Or, as Berryman told Merwin: *Berryman* I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write Chris Stroffolino wrote: > or maybe the last three lines... > > On May 14, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Suzanne Baran wrote: > >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! >> >> On 5/14/07, *Linda Sue Grimes* > > wrote: >> >> the first three lines are all that is necessary...the rest is >> mere repetition... >> >> respectfully >> lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Anny Ballardini >> *To:* New Poetry >> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2007 12:05 PM >> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] so you want to be a writer? by >> Charles Bukowski >> >> Sent to me by Anna Guterl: >> >> *so you want to be a writer?* >> by *Charles Bukowski* >> >> >> if it doesn't come bursting out of you >> >> in spite of everything, >> >> don't do it. >> >> unless it comes unasked out of your >> >> heart and your mind and your mouth >> >> and your gut, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you have to sit for hours >> >> staring at your computer screen >> >> or hunched over your >> >> typewriter >> >> searching for words, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you're doing it for money or >> >> fame, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you're doing it because you want >> >> women in your bed, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you have to sit there and >> >> rewrite it again and again, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, >> >> don't do it. >> >> if you're trying to write like somebody >> >> else, >> >> forget about it. >> >> >> >> if you have to wait for it to roar out of >> >> you, >> >> then wait patiently. >> >> if it never does roar out of you, >> >> do something else. >> >> >> if you first have to read it to your wife >> >> or your girlfriend or your boyfriend >> >> or your parents or to anybody at all, >> >> you're not ready. >> >> >> don't be like so many writers, >> >> don't be like so many thousands of >> >> people who call themselves writers, >> >> don't be dull and boring and >> >> pretentious, don't be consumed with self- >> >> love. >> >> the libraries of the world have >> >> yawned themselves to >> >> sleep >> >> over your kind. >> >> don't add to that. >> >> don't do it. >> >> unless it comes out of >> >> your soul like a rocket, >> >> unless being still would >> >> drive you to madness or >> >> suicide or murder, >> >> don't do it. >> >> unless the sun inside you is >> >> burning your gut, >> >> don't do it. >> >> >> when it is truly time, >> >> and if you have been chosen, >> >> it will do it by >> >> itself and it will keep on doing it >> >> until you die or it dies in you. >> >> >> there is no other way. >> >> >> and there never was. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to >> a dancing star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for >> a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to >> an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with >> words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and >> unconditionally, by Mind at Large? this is an experience of >> inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual." - >> Aldous Huxley >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Opus40-01 Thu Jun 7 12:56:55 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:56:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A bitter winter Message-ID: <466838D7.3060005@opus40.org> Some thoughts on Witter Bynner and the Academy of American Poets on my blog. -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From alexdickow9 Fri Jun 8 09:52:50 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 06:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Manhattan Word of Mouth reading In-Reply-To: <200706071600.l57G04it023654@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <933103.76511.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, Hope to see you there! Amicalement, Alex Word of Mouth June 14th at 7pm @ Bluestockings Radical Books 172 Allen St. (Between Stanton and Rivington) Readers will be: Carly Sachs (poetry) Annie Choi (non-fiction) Alexander Dickow (poetry) Amy Lawless (poetry) Visit www.megpunschke.com/wordofmouth.html for a complete list of 2007 events. -- Best Regards, Meghan Punschke WoM Curator www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From jforjames Fri Jun 8 10:16:01 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:16:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: [Poetry Center help wanted: temporary administrative asst In-Reply-To: <466845E5.1040506@english.umass.edu> References: <466845E5.1040506@english.umass.edu> Message-ID: <8C977EEAD884225-340-DFF2@MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com> Attached Message From: Poetry Temp 1 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: Poetry Center help wanted: temporary administrative asst Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:51:37 -0400 ? ? JOB OPPORTUNITY June 7, 2007 Job Posting #17-07 ? Administrative Assistant, Unterberg Poetry Center Tisch Center for the Arts ONE YEAR POSITION TEMPORARY POSITION DATES - July 2, 2007 ? July 2, 2008 ? ? ? ? Position Summary Reporting to the Director and the Managing Director of the Unterberg Poetry Center, the administrative assistant will provide administrative support for the Unterberg Poetry Center?s programs, classes and outreach programs. ? Position Accountabilities Provide general office support including handling phone calls, e-mail queries, faxing, copying, maintaining office supplies and tracking Poetry Center expenses. Assist Director in administering Main Reading Series and Biographers and Brunch lecture series by preparing author contracts, administering and tracking author honoraria; making hotel and travel arrangements; tending to room and AV setups for all events and reserve seat arrangements, and acting as liaison with backstage staff, house manager and box office. Assist Managing Director in administering Writing Program by helping to prepare contracts and coordinate instructor honoraria; prepare and check room and AV setups for classes; field phone inquiries and act as liaison with students and teachers; log in manuscript submissions for workshops; notify and register accepted students and cover weekend classes. Act as liaison for Poetry Center Patrons Program by processing correspondence, renewals and reserved seats. Assist with administration of ?Discovery?/The Nation Poetry Contest by maintaining mailing lists; preparing annual contest flyer; acting as liaison with judges and contest coordinators and processing contest submissions. Prepare bibliographies for annual Reading Series and Biographers & Brunch lecture series; act as liaison with Barnes & Noble for book sales at events. Maintain Poetry Center files and audio archives. Diplomatic skill in dealing with authors and the public. Perform other related duties as assigned or requested. ? Position Qualifications Requirements:? High School Diploma or equivalent. Familiarity with contemporary literature preferred.? Skill in written communication.? Knowledge of computer programs including MSWord and Excel, and mail merge functions.? Highly organized and detail oriented.? Ability to work under pressure and balance several tasks at once.? Previous office and/or editorial experience needed. ? Hours of Work: Typical work schedule Monday 10:00AM to 10:00PM, Tuesday through Friday 10:00AM to 6:00PM, with 45 minute meal break.? Additional weekend and evening work required based on reading and writing program schedules.? ? ? ? ? Please send resume with cover letter to: 92nd Street Y, Human Resources-EL, 1395 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10128. Fax:? 212-410-1254. Email:? humanresources at 92Y.org. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2493 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jun 8 12:23:52 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:23:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail .com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [New-Poetry] American Modernism Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 8 12:29:16 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:29:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY><4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <006101c7a9ea$28b524f0$64ee064f@ANNY> How very nice of you Bob, I do appreciate any mention. Unluckily I switched to Beta Blogger and lost all my links, my sitemeter, and my moon (I also loved that moon: waxing and waning) I am therefore quite depressed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [New-Poetry] American Modernism Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony Fri Jun 8 13:01:41 2007 From: tony (Tony Trigilio) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:01:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs Message-ID: <46698B75.7000803@starve.org> Bob, if it fits your project, mine's at: http://shimmykat.blogspot.com. Thanks-- Best, Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob From tony Fri Jun 8 13:03:45 2007 From: tony (Tony Trigilio) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:03:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Incorrect blog address Message-ID: <46698BF1.1050002@starve.org> Sorry, Bob, but I think I gave you the wrong address. Should be: http://shimmykat.blogspot.com Thanks-- Best, Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 8 16:40:41 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:40:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] :-) Message-ID: <001b01c7aa0d$48248c40$978d3052@ANNY> "Repeated stresses served as pneumonic devices to help the ancient bards remember excessively long poems." (from a student paper on Beowulf) from Clarinda Harriss's poem: Pneumonic/Mnemonic devices http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1968 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Jun 8 19:58:31 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 18:58:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:SPR Column on Blogs References: <46698BF1.1050002@starve.org> Message-ID: <023901c7aa28$ed7092a0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Thanks, Tony. Will start a new list of blogs to mention in some future column. Column just done ran out of room--with a mention of The Mole's blog, by the way--which I mention because I forgot to in my other post about blogs. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 9 09:19:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:19:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joan Armatrading References: <46698BF1.1050002@starve.org> <023901c7aa28$ed7092a0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004301c7aa98$df9f79f0$103d014f@ANNY> My favorite by Joan Armatrading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvMxSjIUx70 Love And Affection -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 9 09:56:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:56:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY><4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu><019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <006101c7a9ea$28b524f0$64ee064f@ANNY> Message-ID: <006801c7aa9e$04704610$103d014f@ANNY> I "riverted to the classic template" and I have all my links back + my Creative Commons Licence, my Moon phases, the sitemeter - it is all there, even the world map ! How did I do it? I clicked on Template (in the Posting / Settings section) chose the Htlm version found a label at the bottom with: "Rivert to the classic template" and everything is back again. Many thanks to Kaz who tried to help me out, but I do not care for the BetaBlogger any more, :-) Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs How very nice of you Bob, I do appreciate any mention. Unluckily I switched to Beta Blogger and lost all my links, my sitemeter, and my moon (I also loved that moon: waxing and waning) I am therefore quite depressed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [New-Poetry] American Modernism Out of town & offline for a week, I'm coming late to this thread, so forgive me if someone's already mentioned a lovely little anthology edited by Karl Shapiro: *Prose Keys to Modern Poetry*. I believe it's long out of print, but still available on Amazon & the used shops. Best single collection I've seen, even after all these years. It collects most of the classic statements from Whitman, Poe, Baudelaire, through Pound, Eliot, Stevens, Lawrence, Jeffers, et al. From 1962, originally, but not much outdated, since it covers original statements by the originators. Kenner's books are not only essential but great fun to read. Not usually considered much in discussions of modernist thought, Frost has attracted some interesting attention from critics who do consider him such. Richard Poirier's *Frost: the Work of Knowing* is about the single best book on Frost, I'd say, and firmly places him as the intellectual peer of Eliot & Stevens. Frank Lentricchia's *Modernist Quartet* is similar, linking Frost with Pound, Stevens, and Eliot. Pinsky's classic *The Situation of Poetry* is about post-modern poetry, but has one of the most lucid discussions of modernist thought that I've seen. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:22 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: Don't know if these are useful, but this is what I had to go through: Besides the Cantos and Personae by Pound; ABC of Reading by EP Pound: selected prose 1909-1965 Guide to Kulchur by EP A guide to EP's Personae (1926) Ruthven The Solitary Volcano by John Tytell The Imagist Poem by William Pratt then a couple of guides to the Cantos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] American Modernism A request for some of the more scholarly-minded folks in the NewPoetry world: One of my comprehensive examinations is on American Modernism. I'm looking for some titles of critical works that discuss Modernism as a concept. Particularly helpful would be any work focused on American Modernist writers or artists. The more contemporary the criticism, the better--although, I'd appreciate any titles. I am looking at Hugh Kenner's two books, The Pound Era & A Homemade World: American Writers of the Modernist Era. I'd appreciate any suggestions. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 13:26:21 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 13:26:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] National Poetry Map Launched Message-ID: Poetry Nation (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/382) (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/382) The National Poetry Map on Poets.org just got bigger and better. Take a journey through the country's vast array of poetry resources and discover local landmarks, evocative poems, neighborhood celebrations, and hometown heroes. With countless new information added, each state page now features local conferences, festivals, event listings, poetry-friendly bookstores, journals, presses, as well as state-specific poets, poems, and poetic history. On the web at: _www.poets.org/map_ (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/382) Sampled States (http://www.poets.org/state.php/varState/MA) (http://www.poets.org/state.php/varState/MA) Head west to California to see Robinson Jeffer's Tor House, City Lights Bookstore, and Berkeley's Poetry Walk, and explore the roots of the Beat Movement and Language poetry. Or travel south, to Florida, and join Donald Justice, Nathaniel Mackey, Geri Doran, and others in the place Elizabeth Bishop called "the state with the prettiest name." Rediscover the home of Gwendolyn Brooks, Carl Sandburg, and Li-Young Lee in Illinois, and stop by Green Mill Cocktail Lounge, the birthplace of the poetry slam movement. Pull over in Massachusetts to tour the homes of Emily Dickinson and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and visit the nation?s oldest all-poetry bookstore. Homestate, Homepage Plot your course now and return regularly to find out what's new in your neighborhood. Linking to a state from your browser, blog, or website is as easy as remembering its postal abbreviation. Simply add the state's two-letter code after the Poets.org URL to travel instantly to the state's homepage. For example, to visit Massachusetts, go to _www.poets.org/MA_ (http://www.poets.org/MA) . Local Dispatch The country is always active and alive with poetry, and so the National Poetry Map will keep expanding. Tell us about poetry in your area. Send local dispatches and suggestions to _map at poets.org_ (mailto:map at poets.org) . Mark Your Calendar (and Ours!) The local events that appear on each state page can also be found on the lively Poets.org events calendar, which lists hundreds of upcoming readings and festivals across the country, and can be browsed by location, date, or keyword. Submit events for inclusion in the calendar through an easy electronic form: _poets.org/calendar_ (http://www.poets.org/calendar.php/varClear/1) . ____________________________________ Thanks for being a part of the Poets.org community. _Poets.org_ (http://www.poets.org/) is just one of many programs of the Academy of American Poets. The Academy serves millions of people every year and depends upon the generous _support_ (http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/4) of its members and donors. _Click here_ (http://www.poets.org/unsub.php) to unsubscribe from this list. Academy of American Poets 584 Broadway, Suite 604 New York, NY 10012 212-274-0343 _academy at poets.org_ (mailto:academy at poets.org) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 14:57:22 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 14:57:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Hughes and translation Message-ID: _http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2180-23207-2645341-23207,00.htm l_ (http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,2180-23207-2645341-23207,00.html) Ted Hughes and translation Clive Wilmer Ted Hughes SELECTED TRANSLATIONS 368pp. Faber and Faber. ?20. 0 571 22140 8 Translation is an imperfect art ? even an impossible one. That is the truism. But it would be a very eccentric devotee of literature who for lack of Greek or Russian refused to read Homer or Tolstoy. Lyric poetry is more challenging to the translator than narrative literature is, since little can be separated out from the choice of specific words, their sounds, rhythms and associations, to say nothing of poetic form and the elaborations of syntax. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Jun 9 15:30:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 21:30:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] quite amazing Message-ID: <012d01c7aacc$b3eca830$103d014f@ANNY> from Tom Beckett's blog, http://voice-noise.blogspot.com/ see Women in Art on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 15:59:22 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:59:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... Message-ID: _http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html_ (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html) Poems for the People Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. --- Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Sat Jun 9 17:29:53 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 16:29:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... References: Message-ID: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html Poems for the People Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. --- Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cralan Sat Jun 9 17:37:32 2007 From: cralan (cralan kelder) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:37:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: mmm, puerto rico is sometimes referred to as the 51st state? I think because puerto ricans are entitled passport holders...maybe us virgin islands not 100% sure on this, being a poet and all. my guess is that 51st state is kinda derogatory, a way to describe places under us jurisdiction, but not admitted into the club, cause we?d have to change all those flags, in slam poetic terms, it seems nicer & inclusive. On 6/9/07 11:29 PM, "Linda Sue Grimes" wrote: > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: JforJames at aol.com >> >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM >> >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... >> >> >> >> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html >> Poems for the People >> Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo >> >> >> >> Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry >> Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. >> >> >> >> In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a >> pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli >> Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But >> Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in >> poems than in Prozac. >> >> >> >> --- >> >> >> >> Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't >> feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book >> has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media >> diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the >> cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) >> but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits >> somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > See what's free at AOL.com . > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sat Jun 9 17:41:21 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:41:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... Message-ID: Kind of like saying you only have to sell 30 copies to have a best seller in poetry? Let's not forget--TIME once wouldn't hire John Berryman to write copy. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sat Jun 9 18:36:14 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:36:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <466B2B5E.3000005@myuw.net> Ted Berriganland Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't > like that... > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html > Poems for the People > Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo > > Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at > the Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in > D.C., May of 2007. > > In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a > pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can > thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis > and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is > apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. > > --- > > Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new > stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller > list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry > is the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally > baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's > Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely > consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits > somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cstroffo Sat Jun 9 19:57:52 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 16:57:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <9975D066-6A4C-4395-8994-B854F6CFBEBA@earthlink.net> I keep thinking of that song by a british "punkish" band from the 80s, "we're the 51st state of america" (though maybe mr. GROSSMAN meant canada, or the district of columbia On Jun 9, 2007, at 2:29 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like > that... > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html > Poems for the People > Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo > > Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the > Poetry Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in > D.C., May of 2007. > > In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a > pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can > thank Eli Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis > and Prozac. But Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is > apparently more interested in poems than in Prozac. > > --- > > Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new > stuff. Don't feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller > list for verse, a book has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is > the spinach in America's media diet: good for you, occasionally > baked into other, tastier dishes (like the cameo that W.H. Auden's > Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) but rarely > consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it sits > somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. > > > > > > See what's free at AOL.com. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 9 20:58:27 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 20:58:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poet finds God Message-ID: _http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html_ (http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html) Gazing into the Abyss The sudden appearance of love and the galvanizing prospect of death lead a young poet back to poetry and a ?hope toward God? By Christian Wiman Though I was raised in a very religious household, until about a year ago I hadn?t been to church in any serious way in more than 20 years. It would be inaccurate to say that I have been indifferent to God in all that time. If I look back on the things I have written in the past two decades, it?s clear to me not only how thoroughly the forms and language of Christianity have shaped my imagination, but also how deep and persistent my existential anxiety has been. I don?t know whether this is all attributable to the century into which I was born, some genetic glitch, or a late reverberation of the Fall of Man. What I do know is that I have not been at ease in this world. Poetry, for me, has always been bound up with this unease, ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy Sun Jun 10 11:40:06 2007 From: edmundhardy (Edmund Hardy) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 15:40:06 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] two new ebooks In-Reply-To: <200706051600.l55G05it005528@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: "Intercapillary Space" http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2007/06/ebooks-4-and-5.html two new ebooks from UK based writers: Carol Watts: alphabetise A prose poem chronicle. First exhibited in 'Different Alphabets', Bury Text Festival, 2005, this ebook edition consists of each page photographed - part handwritten and part typed, an occasional alphabetical diary. 31 pages. 75 KB. Download FREE Peter Hughes: Berlioz A serial poem. 74 pages. 112 KB. Download FREE It begins like this: 1 first you're sat on your dad's lap then your face is grey as the grave you've used up the years you waited for in a cold wind cold as the winter of your birth you look around seeing nothing but second nature mountains to south & east more geomorphology to north & west the long deluge of silt precipitating through the body _________________________________________________________________ Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to Audition http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk From JforJames Sun Jun 10 12:31:41 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:31:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God Message-ID: I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. Finnegan In a message dated 6/9/2007 8:58:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames writes: _http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html_ (http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html) Gazing into the Abyss The sudden appearance of love and the galvanizing prospect of death lead a young poet back to poetry and a ?hope toward God? By Christian Wiman ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moonspinner Sun Jun 10 12:54:44 2007 From: moonspinner (Melanie Simms) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:54:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Waking the Muse by Melanie Simms and other announcements Message-ID: <000901c7ab80$0c43ec10$2101a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Melanie Simms' award winning collection of poetry, Waking the Muse is available for purchase on Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com, Target.com, and several other national and international distribution sites. Visit the website of Melanie Simms at www.poetmelaniesimms.net for more information and to request a copy of her book online to receive an autographed copy. Announcement: Melanie's website: www.poetmelaniesimms.net also features free e-cards, links to discounted poetry books and more. Enjoy authentic sounds of the sea and stunning lighthouse graphics as you browse. This is a family-friendly website. Announcement: Visit Melanie on Ebay; PoetAngel41; for rare and antiquarian books, including poetry books and more. www.ebay.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 13:07:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:07:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] McKay & Wright win Griffin Poetry Prize Message-ID: _http://thechronicleherald.ca/Books/840689.html_ (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Books/840689.html) Don McKay wins Griffin Poetry Prize By The Canadian Press TORONTO ? A veteran Canadian author who has twice won the Governor General? s award for poetry was one of two recipients of the prestigious Griffin Poetry Prize, awarded Wednesday at a lavish ceremony in Toronto. Canadian Don McKay won for Strike/Slip, his eleventh book of poetry, which was lauded by judges as a book of "patience, courage, and quiet eloquence." The $100,000 award, worth $50,000 each to a Canadian and an international recipient, is among the most lucrative poetry prizes in the world. American Charles Wright took the international prize for his book of poetry, Scar Tissue. Wright is a prolific poet and professor who received the 1998 Pulitzer Prize for Poetry. The audience in Toronto?s trendy Distillery District erupted in applause as McKay bounded onstage to receive his award. The 65-year-old poet, a three-time nominee for the Griffin, called his victory a "deeply moving experience" and spoke to a recurring theme of the night: whether Canadian poetry is being marginalized. "I don?t think that poetry is in any danger, that it runs deep and will always be there. It will survive, with cockroaches, beyond us," he said, eliciting a big laugh from the crowd. The British Columbia writer is considered Canada?s top nature poet. McKay said the prize will allow him to continue his research and field work, as well as allow him to lend support to charitable causes that work in social and environmental action. The Griffin Poetry Prize was launched seven years ago by Toronto businessman Scott Griffin and a group of writers including Margaret Atwood and Michael Ondaatje, both of whom were present at Wednesday?s ceremony. In each category, the prize is awarded for the best collection of poetry in English published during the preceding year. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 13:10:51 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:10:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollo sonnets Message-ID: _http://www.brooklynrail.org/2007/6/books/poetry-roundup_ (http://www.brooklynrail.org/2007/6/books/poetry-roundup) Poetry Roundup by Jeffrey Cyphers Wright Anselm Hollo, Guests of Space (Coffee House Press, 2007) After thirty poetry books, Anselm Hollo looks back in these epic sonnets. ? Guests in Space? is full of friends and authors from across the ages. An elegiac tone permeates and percolates as Hollo ruminates over life. Reflections are punctuated by quotes and observations. Lyric cement and incisive comment bind the lines into powerful amalgams. A very close friend of the poet Ted Berrigan, the collection echoes Berrigan? s long sonnet sequence, Many Happy Returns ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 13:19:26 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:19:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] McKay & Wright win Griffin Poetry Prize Message-ID: See Wright's comment...I think poets have hit a new low. Now we're being compared to cockroaches. Finnegan In a message dated 6/10/2007 1:08:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The 65-year-old poet, a three-time nominee for the Griffin, called his victory a "deeply moving experience" and spoke to a recurring theme of the night: whether Canadian poetry is being marginalized. "I don?t think that poetry is in any danger, that it runs deep and will always be there. It will survive, with cockroaches, beyond us," he said, eliciting a big laugh from the crowd. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Jun 10 13:56:30 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:56:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CRWOPPS Message-ID: <731bb17a0706101056t6e2e9767p3a02d43621813a47@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone here at NewPoetry subscribe to a Yahoo list called CRWOPPS-B? I believe that Allison Joseph is the admin. I used to be subscribed to it (I thought). But no email has come through lately. Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LauraHeidy Sun Jun 10 14:00:51 2007 From: LauraHeidy (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:00:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] CRWOPPS Message-ID: In a message dated 6/10/2007 1:56:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: Does anyone here at NewPoetry subscribe to a Yahoo list called CRWOPPS-B? I believe that Allison Joseph is the admin. I know that Allison switched servers a few weeks ago.....and she was on hiatus for a short bit, but I'm still getting her notices every day. The address to subscribe (or re-subscribe, as the case may be) is: _CRWROPPS-B-owner at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:CRWROPPS-B-owner at yahoogroups.com) or: _crwropps-b at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:crwropps-b at yahoogroups.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 10 14:05:01 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:05:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Conference Message-ID: _http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20070608_For_serious_poets__t he_lines_form_here.html_ (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20070608_For_serious_poets__the_lines_form_here.html) Posted on Fri, Jun. 08, 2007 For serious poets, the lines form hereWest Chester conference shows their passion. By Jeff Gammage Inquirer Staff Writer The event is not so much a conference as a summit - a gathering of some of the best in American letters, a meeting of the most accomplished and influential people you've never heard of. Kay Ryan? Dana Gioia? Rock stars. At least here. The four-day event, which concludes tomorrow and is a major occasion on the literary calendar, is known for its intellectual rigor and ability to shape conversation about poetry. Here, budding poets pay to be schooled in traditional elements of their calling - to learn the nature of narrative, the reason of rhyme. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 Sun Jun 10 14:48:49 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] hapax summer 2007 In-Reply-To: <200706101600.l5AG04it031113@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <565232.7300.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, One of my longer poems has been published in the new issue of the French literary journal Hapax! There are only 100 copies available, so order yours soon. To order this issue of Hapax from outside of Europe, backchannel me and I will help you obtain a copy. You can find information about the journal and related projects at www.larepubliquemondialedeslettres.com. To order the journal in Europe: Pour commander la revue ? partir de l?Europe: Association Ferraille 132 rue Ponsardin 51100 Reims FRANCE T?l: 03 26 09 51 43 hapaxUNDERSCOREeditionsATyahooDOTfr JUIN 2007 AVIS DE PARUTION Revue Hapax ?t? 2007 208 pages + 1 CD 10 euros (+ frais de port : 3 euros) Tirage limit? ? 100 exemplaires ISBN 978-2-9529001-2-6 * Dossier : Transcr?ations ? Fran?ois Vaucluse, L?art de traduire ? Eric Houser, Patch ! ? Alexander Dickow, Prince/Dragon ? Haroldo De Campos (par In?s Oseki-D?pr?), Translucif?ration * Textes ? David Mus, Le Lac ? Jean-Patrice Courtois, Mobile ? Franck La?s, L?effet B. ? Andr? Gache, NOM ? Zolt?n Hom?lyos, Discours de cl?ture ? Jacques Demarcq, ?Crivent ? L.L. De Mars, Pratique du Golem ? Frank?tienne, Mots d?ailes en infini d?ab?me ? Dominique Meens, L?Hirondelle * CD ? M?, Ars gratia artis + extrait de Vers o (?piquaresque ro?me) * Critique ? Alain Frontier, Th?orie de la th?orie www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From LauraHeidy Sun Jun 10 14:58:58 2007 From: LauraHeidy (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:58:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] West Chester Conference Message-ID: In a message dated 6/10/2007 2:05:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The four-day event, which concludes tomorrow and is a major occasion on the literary calendar, is known for its intellectual rigor and ability to shape conversation about poetry. Here, budding poets pay to be schooled in traditional elements of their calling - to learn the nature of narrative, the reason o f rhyme. Dan and I drove down there yesterday for the last day. There's a small accounting on my blog - _http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/2007/06/13th-annual-poetry-conference-at-west. html_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/2007/06/13th-annual-poetry-conference-at-west.html) Lo ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 10 15:58:24 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:58:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: Message-ID: <003c01c7ab99$b505ca30$3da93452@ANNY> It almost gave me the shivers. >From what I understand he is 40 years old. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. Finnegan In a message dated 6/9/2007 8:58:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames writes: http://www.theamericanscholar.org/su07/abyss-wiman.html Gazing into the Abyss The sudden appearance of love and the galvanizing prospect of death lead a young poet back to poetry and a ?hope toward God? By Christian Wiman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Jun 10 17:10:30 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:10:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: Message-ID: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty years with no significant ill effects from his disease. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 10 17:28:18 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:28:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00b201c7aba6$43d14ee0$3da93452@ANNY> If you were in Italy, Bob, they would say of you: E' tagliato con l'accetta. He's cut down with an axe I mean, no platonic variations, :-) From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:10 PM I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a moving essay, straightforward and sincere. I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty years with no significant ill effects from his disease. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Mon Jun 11 05:49:25 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:49:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... In-Reply-To: <9975D066-6A4C-4395-8994-B854F6CFBEBA@earthlink.net> References: <000d01c7aadd$51bb1d20$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <9975D066-6A4C-4395-8994-B854F6CFBEBA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: "the the" is the band, it's on the single infected. If you ain't guessed by now, it's a derogatory term, indicating a subservient role to the US. According to google, the current "51st state", or country whose leader has his tongue furthest up Bush's arse, is Australia, although the UK has held the title in the past and in all likelihood will do so in future.*hangs head in shame* on both counts. Roger On 6/10/07, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > I keep thinking of that song by a british "punkish" band from the 80s, > "we're the 51st state of america" > > (though maybe mr. GROSSMAN meant canada, or the district of columbia > > > > > On Jun 9, 2007, at 2:29 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Would someone please tell me the name of the 51st state? > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 2:59 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like that... > > > http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630571,00.html > Poems for the People > Thursday, Jun. 07, 2007 By LEV GROSSMAN Enlarge Photo > > Champion students representing all 51 states, stand on stage at the Poetry > Out Loud Competition at George Washington University in D.C., May of 2007. > > In 1876 an American Civil War veteran named Eli Lilly founded a > pharmaceutical company. He did pretty well for himself: you can thank Eli > Lilly & Co. for, among other things, methadone, Cialis and Prozac. But > Lilly's reclusive great-granddaughter Ruth is apparently more interested in > poems than in Prozac. > > --- > > Chances are, you don't read much poetry, at least not the new stuff. Don't > feel bad, hardly anybody does. To hit the best-seller list for verse, a book > has to sell only around 30 copies. Poetry is the spinach in America's media > diet: good for you, occasionally baked into other, tastier dishes (like the > cameo that W.H. Auden's Funeral Blues made in Four Weddings and a Funeral) > but rarely consumed on its own. In the hierarchy of cultural pursuits it > sits somewhere just below classical music and just above clogging. > > > > > > ________________________________ > See what's free at AOL.com. > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons." Roman Proverb From grahamd Mon Jun 11 10:15:31 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:15:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail .com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I am selfish. I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed your writing habits notably? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry > blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a > number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike > Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another > installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of > blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I > thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of > the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its > URL. > > Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't > be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the > whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm > doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, > Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to > say much about any of them--but something. > > Thanks, Bob > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 11 11:53:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:53:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail.com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY><4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu><019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <005001c7ac40$b12a91f0$e2af3452@ANNY> What you are writing and sharing with us, is exceptional. I have a blog and my spontaneous reaction to your observation of wanting to _hide your thoughts made my inner I speak up: nothing more secret than a blog! Oh yes, the sitemeter shows that many were there browsing around, but since this is the time of plenty in the history of poetry, things get read and forgotten, or maybe not even read. As a matter of fact I do not post too many poems, as I have recently collected my latest, still online, but on a different site. I use my blog as a big fat agenda. I has pics in it, thoughts, links, unsaid things, observations, and some more. I like to have a place where I can find my things and quotations. There is a slot in which you can type a word, for example "well" and there you have all the posts that contain that word. A luxury for those who like me had to move frequently and have forever missed that book, that quotation, that idea that might have led to something else, I am also very interested in knowing what a blog is for the other bloggers. From: David Graham Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:15 PM No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I am selfish. I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed your writing habits notably? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. Thanks, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 11 12:45:13 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:45:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> David, I, too, am (or was) a religious journal-keeper. The blog has taken the place of my journal because in my journal, I wrote the kinds of things I write about in my blog: poetry, personal observations, random quotations, religious questions. theodicy, philosophy, & the like. I have been trying to get myself back on a regular schedule (including getting back to my journal). Since my son was born, everything (& I do mean everything) has gone out the window: no more leisurely mornings writing in my office, no more long afternoon at the library or coffee shop reading a novel or book of poems, no more regularly-scheduled writing. So, I'm probably a bad case study, given my three-month-old. Still, I like having a blog because my blog connects me with other writers. I don't always agree with what they have to say, but I do enjoy hearing others' words, even if I never comment. I've even met & cultivated a couple of friendships via blogs: Gary McDowell (of the Midamerican Review) & Steven Schroeder (of Sturgeon's Law) are just a couple of people I've met via my blog & theirs. Occasionally, I've written a small review of a poet that I like & that poet has contacted me. I met Nicholas Samaras because this way. Aside from meeting folks, I enjoy the fact that however small, I have an audience for my ideas. Anywho, just my random thoughts. I'm off to prep for class. Best, Jeff Newberry On 6/11/07, David Graham wrote: > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am not > filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it would > be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I am > selfish. > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and am > pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I am > rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral notebook, > black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an anti-blog > ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its privacy. > Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that > keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how > disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm > afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix something > that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. It's hard > to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or worse, > encourage more self-censorship. > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think the > world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . . . > If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in addition > to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed your > writing habits notably? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs in > my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, > covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for > instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning > David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the > blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of > the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. > > Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be > exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range > of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be > about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if > he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but > something. > > Thanks, Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 11 12:45:34 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:45:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706110945k6ee199cdp77fdacaf940e3bf8@mail.gmail.com> Edit: "I met Nicholas Samaras this way." --Jeff On 6/11/07, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > David, > > I, too, am (or was) a religious journal-keeper. The blog has taken the > place of my journal because in my journal, I wrote the kinds of things I > write about in my blog: poetry, personal observations, random quotations, > religious questions. theodicy, philosophy, & the like. > > I have been trying to get myself back on a regular schedule (including > getting back to my journal). Since my son was born, everything (& I do mean > everything) has gone out the window: no more leisurely mornings writing > in my office, no more long afternoon at the library or coffee shop reading a > novel or book of poems, no more regularly-scheduled writing. > > So, I'm probably a bad case study, given my three-month-old. > > Still, I like having a blog because my blog connects me with other > writers. I don't always agree with what they have to say, but I do enjoy > hearing others' words, even if I never comment. I've even met & cultivated > a couple of friendships via blogs: Gary McDowell (of the Midamerican > Review) & Steven Schroeder (of Sturgeon's Law) are just a couple of people > I've met via my blog & theirs. Occasionally, I've written a small review of > a poet that I like & that poet has contacted me. I met Nicholas Samaras > because this way. > > Aside from meeting folks, I enjoy the fact that however small, I have an > audience for my ideas. > > Anywho, just my random thoughts. I'm off to prep for class. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/11/07, David Graham wrote: > > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I am > > not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and surely it > > would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, but the fact is, I > > am selfish. > > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, and > > am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many writers I > > am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 lined spiral > > notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the notion--very much an > > anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential nature of my journal is its > > privacy. Knowing that no one need ever see a word I write there is one > > thing that keeps me honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no > > matter how disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy > > option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild > > experimentation. > > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix > > something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal workshop. > > It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my journal keeping. Or > > worse, encourage more self-censorship. > > > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think > > the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post here. . > > . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted to blog in > > addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt the analog journal. > > > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed > > your writing habits notably? > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry blogs > > in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a number of them, > > covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's, for > > instance. I'm working on another installment in which I'll be mentioning > > David Graham's list of blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the > > blog I thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of > > the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its URL. > > > > Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't be > > exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the whole range > > of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm doing today will be > > about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if > > he has one. Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but > > something. > > > > Thanks, Bob > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Jun 11 12:45:34 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:45:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com><731bb17a0706010821v271aa55av5351064d28eac1cc@mail.gmail .com><00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <8C97A5F10A7BA72-21C-15D5C@mblk-r41.sysops.aol.com> Here's one poet's take on the experience of poetry blogging... http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179635 Just Get the Poems Out There How one writer found her home among the poet bloggers. by Shanna Compton Totally thrilling. Within the month I was thinking, damn it. Could I have skipped my MFA program (which I?d delayed for years after my BA, unsure and wary) if the blogs had arrived sooner? (I was already working as a writer and had no plans to teach.) On these emerging blogs, as well as on e-mail lists and forums, I?d finally found what I?d been looking for working in publishing, hanging around at readings, and going to grad school: other poets. Not famous ones, elder ones, teaching ones, laureate ones, or the ones with books from Knopf stocked at Barnes & Noble. The other ones. Ones like me. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Jun 11 12:57:59 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Poetry gets uppity and some folks don't like In-Reply-To: <200706111556.l5BFuuis020231@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <933686.19163.qm@web83809.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Chris-- "were the 51st state of america" The band is New Model Army. Album is Ghost of Cain from 1985 I think reference is that England is assimilating American culture Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Mon Jun 11 13:23:18 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:18 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706111023s5c5f6ba4vba6147730d0fae8b@mail.gmail.com> For what it's worth, I have always kept my journal on paper and continue to do so. There's no way to be sure about the causes, but I write much *more* on paper now that I blog... but the kinds of things I blog about are most often different from things I journal about, though journals (and letters) often contain material stimulated by writing in my blog or reading those of others. I know we disagree, but I continue to maintain that thoughtful postings to an email list is not an activity that is significantly different from blogging-- the idea that the email list represents an audience that one "knows" and a more controlled dissemination of one's work is mostly a comforting fiction. But it is a different dynamic and while I'd prefer to see more of the interesting people here blogging (because it's easier to refer to and share those conversations with people who need to hear it and because the poetry blogosphere is very heavily weighted in the post-avant direction), I've no desire to convince them to do so. c From skip Mon Jun 11 13:26:53 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:26:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7ac4d$ba2bcb40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I've not done blogging at my small blog, but have used it the way a painter might use a warehouse a few blocks from downtown in a town of maybe 15,000-40,000. I paint in it. It is semi-public (Anny's right, there such a plethora of fine writing that not much gets seen much less read) space, say with a window along a side street, such that someone could stop and smoke a cigarette while watching new large canvas take shape, perhaps returning over several weeks. Or a kid might stand up on a box and watch for a bit. Someone might eat the apple from his lunch during fair days. I have written a long work in on it (Sept. 06-May 07) and am revising it now: http://skipfox.blogspot.com/ A sort of Sam Spade on hallucinogens (figuratively) in a futuristic world in which cloning. . . . Well, come look in the window. I think I mentioned it once either here or elsewhere. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 Mon Jun 11 13:57:59 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:57:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> I'm absolutely allergic to journals (my own, that is) and could never keep one. A blog, being more public, doesn't have to be about me, which I find a lot more doable. Jeff Newberry wrote: > David, > > I, too, am (or was) a religious journal-keeper. The blog has taken > the place of my journal because in my journal, I wrote the kinds of > things I write about in my blog: poetry, personal observations, > random quotations, religious questions. theodicy, philosophy, & the like. > > I have been trying to get myself back on a regular schedule (including > getting back to my journal). Since my son was born, everything (& I > do mean everything) has gone out the window: no more leisurely > mornings writing in my office, no more long afternoon at the library > or coffee shop reading a novel or book of poems, no more > regularly-scheduled writing. > > So, I'm probably a bad case study, given my three-month-old. > > Still, I like having a blog because my blog connects me with other > writers. I don't always agree with what they have to say, but I do > enjoy hearing others' words, even if I never comment. I've even met & > cultivated a couple of friendships via blogs: Gary McDowell (of the > Midamerican Review) & Steven Schroeder (of Sturgeon's Law) are just a > couple of people I've met via my blog & theirs. Occasionally, I've > written a small review of a poet that I like & that poet has contacted > me. I met Nicholas Samaras because this way. > > Aside from meeting folks, I enjoy the fact that however small, I have > an audience for my ideas. > > Anywho, just my random thoughts. I'm off to prep for class. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/11/07, *David Graham* > wrote: > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that > I am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, > and surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the > world, but the fact is, I am selfish. > > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, > and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like > many writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a > 9x6 lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to > the notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the > essential nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no > one need ever see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me > honest, gives me permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how > disreputable, pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy > option, I'm afraid I would do more self-censoring and less wild > experimentation. > > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix > something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal > workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my > journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I > think the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up > & post here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably > be tempted to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it > didn't hurt the analog journal. > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging > changed your writing habits notably? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry >> blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a >> number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike >> Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another >> installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of >> blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I >> thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one >> of the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me >> know its URL. >> >> Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't >> be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across >> the whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The >> column I'm doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, >> Anny's, Jeff's, Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. >> Won't, alas, be able to say much about any of them--but something. >> >> Thanks, Bob >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From grahamd Mon Jun 11 14:38:22 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:38:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> Message-ID: What makes you think a journal has to be about its author, Tad? This is a serious question. My only "rule" in my journal is that it is private writing. Which isn't the same thing as autobiographical. I simply tell myself I don't have to show it to anyone, though of course quite a lot of stuff makes it out into public view after incubating & being revised. Many journal entries are not about me, in any case, and I almost never use the journal as a diary of my day or my emotional ebb-and-flow. For that matter, I've seen a great many blogs that are very much about their authors' every transient notion & emotion. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 11, 2007, at 1:57 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > I'm absolutely allergic to journals (my own, that is) and could > never keep one. A blog, being more public, doesn't have to be about > me, which I find a lot more doable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmarcacci Mon Jun 11 16:51:03 2007 From: bmarcacci (Bob Marcacci) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:51:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: i started blogging regularly when i moved abroad a five years ago to keep my family tuned in to my life... nothing more artistic than that... i have only blogged one poem during that time, but i put links to current work there... my poems is my poems and me blog is me blog... i always wrote by hand into a journal and still do and find no substitute for that... we use the other side of our brains, ne? or do we? the blog is just a different realm... it forces me to do more and different kinds of writing... it's a record of other important things and fashion and networking and, often, and why not, silly... in fact, the blog forces a different kind of honesty... maybe you're just afraid to write something you never wrote before... and, well, you can't have youtube or audio poetry in your handwritten jobber... anyway, it has only made me write more, and that can't hurt... one must be drenched in words, if possible... unfortunately, if you're not online, you just don't exist... -- Bob Marcacci Marriage: cure for love. - Ambrose Bierce > From: David Graham > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:15:31 -0400 > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs > > No blog for me, alas or hooray as the case may be. It's not that I > am not filled with lofty and important thoughts about poesie, and > surely it would be a kindness for me to share more with the world, > but the fact is, I am selfish. > > I've been keeping an analog writing journal for over 30 years now, > and am pretty religious about putting words into it daily. Like many > writers I am rather ritualistic about my habits: has to be a 9x6 > lined spiral notebook, black ink pen. I am also addicted to the > notion--very much an anti-blog ethos, I realize--that the essential > nature of my journal is its privacy. Knowing that no one need ever > see a word I write there is one thing that keeps me honest, gives me > permission to jot down *anything*, no matter how disreputable, > pointless, or embarrassing. Without the privacy option, I'm afraid I > would do more self-censoring and less wild experimentation. > > One thing that's kept me from blogging is that I'm afraid to fix > something that ain't broke, at least in terms of my own personal > workshop. It's hard to see how blogging wouldn't cut down on my > journal keeping. Or worse, encourage more self-censorship. > > And when I've got some poetical rumination in my journal that I think > the world needs to know about, well, I can always type it up & post > here. . . . If I had more hours in the day, I'd probably be tempted > to blog in addition to journal keeping, but only if it didn't hurt > the analog journal. > > I'm curious to know from the bloggers among us: has blogging changed > your writing habits notably? > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> A while back, I announced that I was going to write about poetry >> blogs in my Small Press review column. Since then, I've done a >> number of them, covering some New-Poetry members' blogs--Mike >> Snider's and Chris Lott's, for instance. I'm working on another >> installment in which I'll be mentioning David Graham's list of >> blogs, and his Poetry Library. I want to mention the blog I >> thought you had, too, David--although it looks like you are one of >> the few of us without one. If you have one, please let me know its >> URL. >> >> Anyone else who wants to make me aware of a blog, do so. I can't >> be exhaustive, but I'm trying to cover as many as I can--across the >> whole range of what's going on in American poetry. The column I'm >> doing today will be about James F.'s, Halvard's, Anny's, Jeff's, >> Tom Beckett's--and David's, if he has one. Won't, alas, be able to >> say much about any of them--but something. >> >> Thanks, Bob >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Mon Jun 11 20:14:44 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:14:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: Message-ID: <00c501c7ac86$b0152780$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I've made a blog entry a day (with just a few misses, like when Hurricane Charlie hit) for over three years now. The fact that I consider it a job I have to do is good for me. I've composed maybe twenty poems because I couldn't think of anything else to put in a day's entry. Many other advantages and disadvantages--too many to get into right now for me. Very busy elsewise. --Bob From Opus40-01 Mon Jun 11 20:07:33 2007 From: Opus40-01 (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:07:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> Message-ID: <466DE3C5.6070800@opus40.org> I shouldn't generalize. I've always found myself getting in the way when I tried to keep a journal. What I do keep is sketchbooks. And I'm as likely to put words in them as pictures. Does that count? David Graham wrote: > What makes you think a journal has to be about its author, Tad? This > is a serious question. My only "rule" in my journal is that it is > private writing. Which isn't the same thing as autobiographical. I > simply tell myself I don't have to show it to anyone, though of course > quite a lot of stuff makes it out into public view after incubating & > being revised. > > Many journal entries are not about me, in any case, and I almost never > use the journal as a diary of my day or my emotional ebb-and-flow. > > For that matter, I've seen a great many blogs that are very much about > their authors' every transient notion & emotion. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > On Jun 11, 2007, at 1:57 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> I'm absolutely allergic to journals (my own, that is) and could never >> keep one. A blog, being more public, doesn't have to be about me, >> which I find a lot more doable. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From bobgrumman Mon Jun 11 21:30:24 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:30:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <731bb17a0706010729j32dec6e9i7902251b84f3c6c1@mail.gmail.com> <00c501c7a469$1d884660$2aa93852@ANNY> <4FCA2B4D-E2A2-447A-AD19-E6D1164261E8@ripon.edu> <019b01c7a9e9$68d608c0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <731bb17a0706110945p37a151f5ka43a4495058efdec@mail.gmail.com> <466D8D27.6050904@opus40.org> <466DE3C5.6070800@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00d701c7ac91$43098040$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I shouldn't generalize. I've always found myself getting in the way when > I tried to keep a journal. > > What I do keep is sketchbooks. And I'm as likely to put words in them as > pictures. Does that count? As long as you don't put them together. --Bob From JforJames Mon Jun 11 22:58:12 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:58:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs Message-ID: I was a latecomver to blogging...I resisted it for a while. One thing I didn't like was that the blogs seemed so much like personal soapboxes and not so much a forum for freewheeling poetry talk. With comments sections, though, they are more like lists, but the discussion unfolds more slowly...and with comment sections, blogs are subject to same negatives (bad posting behavior) that crop up on list from time to time. My own blog is just an outlet for my stray musings on poetry (and sometimes art and philosophy), punctuated by quotes that have presented themselves in my reading. It seems to me, there are a lot different kinds of blogs out there thesedays. Some blogs are quite well done, with long essay-like posts and good book reviews...some are pretty breezy affairs, drive-throughs, outlets for personal journaling, pics, and such. It's a good medium for that, I'd say. Some are more like poetic journals. In fact there's a blog that addresses whole idea of the poetic journal. I think some people gravitated to blogging because they didn't feel they could be heard over the din of listserv postings. Thankfully, that's not the case here at NewPoetry, I don't think. But it's a real challenge to even wade through even the digests of some of the larger lists like Poetics and WomPo. Blogs are more isolated...They are loosely connected like cities on a virtual map. Some large metropolises like Silliman's Blog. Other small, quiet, out of the way burgs. Don't blink kind of towns. I like to boop around and check them out, thither and thither, without much of a planned route in mind. Finnegan _http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Jun 12 10:24:41 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:24:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <00d701c7ac91$43098040$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Off topic of blogs and not against Bob, but there's a minor point I think worth bringing up, and one I love to make to students. If you "keep a journal," you tend to filter many things out of it (grocery lists, license numbers of reckless drivers, doodling with words, whatever . . . some of which may have turned into something fruitful). But if you have a "notebook" which you write in just as regularly as if you "kept it," whatever that means, anything visual (and some things otherwise) might go in and prove fruitful. Limitations are part of the "box" we might be in. And I think that there is much that goes unconsidered because of resulting narrowness.(Have you ever noticed how many times people who claim to write everything they know actually have committee meetings or television in their poems?) So I try eliminate any such limitations I might, and writing in a "notebook" I think helps me in that. (Once I published a poem without words titled "Fuckers" which consisted of 14 license plates of people who cut me off in traffic. If you agree that "1" and "7" are slant rhymes, and "X" and "6" rhyme, it was an Italian sonnet. I'm not claiming _that_ was one of the fruitful products of "notebook" writing. As a side note of a side note, I told Christian Bok about that poem when he was here this spring and he wanted a copy to use in his teaching. Hmmm.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:30 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs >I shouldn't generalize. I've always found myself getting in the way when > I tried to keep a journal. > > What I do keep is sketchbooks. And I'm as likely to put words in them as > pictures. Does that count? As long as you don't put them together. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Tue Jun 12 11:45:47 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:45:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs References: <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c7ad08$c1447060$ddfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> To expand on my little point about the way having a blog one requires oneself to contribute to daily, I think it's being public helps because it means there are people out there who will catch you if you shirk your duty! Or fake it--which means that I do try to be intelligently and interestingly communicative at my blog; or would if I had any readers. I try for coherence in my private diary, too, but not for interestingness. I can say, "today was just like yesterday," in my diary but not at my blog. As for Skip's mixing numbers and letters AND their visual appearance in a poem, I'm too disgusted to say anthing. --Bob From chris.lott Tue Jun 12 13:19:03 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:19:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Blogs In-Reply-To: <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <00d701c7ac91$43098040$d5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000001c7acfd$70d1a7c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706121019s6b65f066r577d04139dcc3092@mail.gmail.com> On 6/12/07, Skip Fox wrote: > Off topic of blogs and not against Bob, but there's a minor point I think > worth bringing up, and one I love to make to students. If you "keep a > journal," you tend to filter many things out of it (grocery lists, license > numbers of reckless drivers, doodling with words, whatever . . . some of > which may have turned into something fruitful). But if you have a "notebook" > which you write in just as regularly as if you "kept it," whatever that > means, anything visual (and some things otherwise) might go in and prove > fruitful. Interesting point. I call it "journalling" but it's really about anything and everything and not really a diary... at times, when the well seems completely dry, I might write about something that happened in my life, but it's as likely to be something from 20 years ago as that day. All of it happens in a notebook or three that I carry around with me all the time. Just as I avoid day-to-day diary style entries, I also avoid lavish journals that I would feel bad scribbling in, stuffing into various bags, spilling coffee on, etc. Those leather bound works of art with the finest paper look great and I could imagine someone more interesting, consistent and neat than I am creating a handsome legacy with them... On the other hand, the odd notes that find their way into the journal because it happened to be handy are sometimes the most interesting to look back at! I desperately wish I could draw... a useful skill I've never had any luck developing. c From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 12 15:19:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:19:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: help connect John Kinsella to the lost Poetryetc archive Message-ID: <005901c7ad26$a3ecb4f0$e6df3652@ANNY> I am forwarding to the list, maybe someone can or interested in following this thread? At the moment I barely know I am sitting in front of the screen, thank you, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: Vanguardphenom at aol.com To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: help connect John Kinsella to the lost Poetryetc archive Anny, I can't identify the Michael ? who has posted to Finnegan's list, but since you've been in direct email contact with John Kinsella and also belong to New Poetry, perhaps you should be the matchmaker. [...] Referencing: "Hi Barry, A listee (current or former, I don't know) named Michael in Raleigh, NC, rescued all the early stuff several years ago when Jiscmail wanted to dump it. He may well still have the stuff he downloaded, and his last name should be available from Finnegan's list. What he can give John is almost a complete record because he kept everything for his own archive. On the other hand, he may have dumped it all after being unable to find anyone to take it over and maintain it as an archive. For a while, I got plaintive messages from him, saying more or less, "Doesn't anybody want this stuff?" And now someone does! Candice" I remembering being called the "maker of connections". Barry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Jun 12 16:46:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:46:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Richard Rorty Message-ID: <00e001c7ad32$c50752b0$e6df3652@ANNY> http://www.telospress.com/main/index.php?main_page=news_article&article_id=188 Richard Rorty, the leading American philosopher and heir to the pragmatist tradition, passed away on Friday, June 8. He was Professor of Comparative Literature emeritus at Stanford University. In April the American Philosophical Society awarded him the Thomas Jefferson Medal. The prize citation reads: "In recognition of his influential and distinctively American contribution to philosophy and, more widely, to humanistic studies. His work redefined knowledge 'as a matter of conversation and of social practice, rather than as an attempt to mirror nature' and thus redefined philosophy itself as an unending, democratically disciplined, social and cultural activity of inquiry, reflection, and exchange, rather than an activity governed and validated by the concept of objective, extramental truth." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley Tue Jun 12 17:44:55 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:44:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy In-Reply-To: <200705262038.l4QKcUit005741@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200705262038.l4QKcUit005741@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <00081124-7776-41DE-BDEB-A2840D2DAA21@overdomain.com> Hal, I'm piling on... I've been thinking about this in terms of what I've been reading lately. I admit that I'm quite a dud when it comes to discussing new- po because I don't seem to get around to much that's really new. In fact, I laughed my way through the blog discussion, remembering how Silliman's original August 2002 posts struck me: "How would anyone do a blog and still have time to write?" I have the same sense today, as I continue editing the same book I was working on five years ago. My book will be perfect soon, and will have a place in heaven (next to the hippopotamus) without my having to dirty my hands at blogging. Nonetheless, your response and your original post interests me... so much so that I think I've read the Gough piece three times. A lot of it I really think is hogwash... like the loss of Aristotle's _Comedy_ dooming us to 2k years of tragedy. After all, Joyce claimed Aristotle as his philosopher and the proximal cause of exact transcriptions of farting, and other antics, for example. Chaucer was pretty hilarious sometimes. And, naturally, I accept your nomination of Shakespeare to the club of comic poets. To begin with, his conception of love is fundamentally comic: that is, love never works out, even when it works out. I realized too that though I love Blake, he never told a joke in his life... (well, I haven't completed Jerusalem or Milton, but if I do, I won't be looking for jokes.) Lorca in poems or plays: completely unfunny. Yeats is terminally serious. (Yes, but even his essays are beautiful!.......) But there is hope, in the strangest of places: TS Eliot is funny! Yes, it is true! Prufrock still makes me laugh: "I grow old. I grow old. I shall wear my trousers rolled." Some lines from Waste Land aspire to black humor in the Bretonian sense: "'That corpse you planted last year in your garden, / Has it begun to sprout?'". And the _Hippo_ is a fine and twisty satire (see below), and I recall Sweeney's erection. As he got older, though, TSE succumbed (as Gough says) more and more to the church, to authority, to his desire to belong-- and this was fatal to his sense of humor, even more so than to his poetry. When I read _Four Quartets_ this last time, I laughed---- not because it's funny but because it isn't. In fact, it reads to me like bad philosophy with line breaks. WC Williams isn't funny. Crane could not have been. Pound: forget it. Stevens could be funny but his wit is too interior and self-absorbed, his imagination stifled in the tiny closet where he kept it.... I did not laugh at a single one of his collected poems. Heaney never cracked a joke. I laughed at a couple of Liz Bishop's. I know Ginsberg was pretty sure he was funny, but his humor is so tainted in my mind by the dull hipster humor that followed him that I really cannot laugh at any of it (except _Vineland_ by Pynchon). Simic has made me smile a time or two. Zukovsky... I did not understand, therefore could not laugh. I don't find O'Hara funny. I think Ashbery was funny a few times, and I was often expecting to laugh... then not laughing, just feeling kinda sad and alienated. Funnier and more interesting than his contemporaries (though never considered by them to be a poet-- though I know that he was!)... is of course... John Cage. Tips to David: I have found several of the Mark Halliday poems quite amusing. Also, _Thank You (Walt Whitman)_ by Matt Cook is hilarious. But when I went to Cook's website, I didn't like the cover poem or find it amusing. There was a poet on this list Gabe Gudding that started a HumPo list. I asked Rachel Loden by email if I could join and never got a response. And I'm not terribly ambitious in this direction, I suppose, since I never asked again. It is certainly intrinsically funny to write about Richard Nixon. And if anyone I ever heard of writing Simpsonesque poetry it would probably be GGudding. But there is something about his poetry and about that show-- viciousness, I believe, and the tendency to draw human beings as violent, selfish, petty and ugly-- that is impotent to make me laugh. (btw: I'm not denying that humans are these things... but this is where Blake has the leg up: the ability to imagine the beautiful. Cervantes made the greatest novel based on beautiful but impractical human aspirations.) Humor is after all a very delicate matter! The treatise by example of chaotic power of laughter is _Tristram Shandy_ ... my essential guidebook. On film: Charlie Chaplin and Marx Brothers. In poetry... well, I'm still looking. THE HIPPOPOTAMUS by: T.S. Eliot (1888-1965) THE broad-backed hippopotamus Rests on his belly in the mud; Although he seems so firm to us He is merely flesh and blood. Flesh-and-blood is weak and frail, Susceptible to nervous shock; While the True Church can never fail For it is based upon a rock. The hippo's feeble steps may err In compassing material ends, While the True Church need never stir To gather in its dividends. The 'potamus can never reach The mango on the mango-tree; But fruits of pomegranate and peach Refresh the Church from over sea. At mating time the hippo's voice Betrays inflexions hoarse and odd, But every week we hear rejoice The Church, at being one with God. The hippopotamus's day Is passed in sleep; at night he hunts; God works in a mysterious way-- The Church can sleep and feed at once. I saw the 'potamus take wing Ascending from the damp savannas, And quiring angels round him sing The praise of God, in loud hosannas. Blood of the Lamb shall wash him clean And him shall heavenly arms enfold, Among the saints he shall be seen Performing on a harp of gold. He shall be washed as white as snow, By all the martyr'd virgins kist, While the True Church remains below Wrapt in the old miasmal mist. "The Hippopotamus" is reprinted from Poems. T.S. Eliot. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1920. > Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 14:49:14 -0500 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: FYRP: Divine Comedy > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Oh my, this is the conventional anthology critique: "But where are > X and Y and Z?" > > "Who are the great funny poets?" is an interesting question, although > I'm not sure that the comic is always funny. > > I'll nominate Shakespeare for starters. > > Pile on. > > Hal > > "Take what you can use and let the rest go by." > --Ken Kesey > From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 13 07:39:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:39:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: WF Price list Message-ID: <002f01c7adaf$86b48cd0$8da93252@ANNY> >From Lawrence Upton: Writers Forum 32 Downside Road Sutton Surrey SM2 5HP WF Publications List June 2007 # 2 This is not a complete list, but it is near it. An omission of a WF title does not necessarily mean it is out of print. We are, however, rather near a final statement of what is available, which will be refined and hopefully finalised over the summer months. Incomplete descriptions will be expanded. The outcome will be placed on the net, hopefully with Paypal. At the moment we can only accept sterling cheques. Non-sterling cheques, please add ?9.00. P & P is for UK. If you genuinely want an item sent abroad, please contact us - don't guess please. P & P costs are for orders for single publications. Because our publications are variously sized, it is not possible to know accurately in advance the total cost of postage and packing where more than one publication is involved. Therefore, large orders may be overcharged. In that event, we shall give you a credit or, if appropriate, a cheque. Some items are in quite short supply and we shall service orders in the sequence in which they are received by post with payment. This list is being sent to all on the wf list simultaneously and will not be posted elsewhere for at least a fortnight. Please make sure you make the cheque payable to Writers Forum and include the delivery address. Other means of payment will be provided in the future, we hope. This is what we can offer now. Please do not send notes and coinage - risking it with sterling is daft, sending anything else is pointless * Adler, Jeremy; The Electric Alphabet; A4 portrait; November 1986 reprinted April 1998; ISBN 978-0-86162-386-0 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Adler, Jeremy & Cobbing, Bob; Towards the city, I - VII; linear texts by Adler and cover and accompanying visual poems by Cobbing; 15 pp; A4 portrair; September 1977 reprinted 1985; ISBN 978-0-86162-171-2 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Basinski, Michael; Mool; 4 pp; December 2000; ISBN 978-1-84254-014-5 ?1.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * bissett, bill; th ekstasee uv aprikots; 16 pp portrait; June 1999; ISBN 978-0-86162-966-4 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * bissett, bill; Vancouvr Mainland Ice & Cold Storage; 42 pp; A5 portrait from A4 folded Japanese fashion, duplicated; cover image by author; July 1973; reprint April 1974; reprint May 1992; reprint June 1999 ISBN 978-0-86162-096-8 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Clarke, Adrian Skeleton Sonnets; 80 pp; November 2002; ISBN 978-1-84254-068-8 4.50 + ?1.00 [p & p for UK} * Cobbing, Bob; 15 Shakespeare Kaku Augmented; 20 pp; B5; ISBN 978-0-86162-818-6 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; ABC in sound; 29 pp A5 portrait; cover image by Jennifer Pike; 1965 (as "Sound Poems"), paperback reprint 2004; ISBN 1 84254 586 8. This is the book that brought Cobbing to wide attention and began his professional career as a poet. ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Destruction in art; edited by Adrian Clarke; cover design Lawrence Upton; A4 portrait; 2004; ISBN 1 84254 589 2 ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob (editor); Gifts for three Sheppards; book compiled on the departure for Merseyside of the Sheppard / Farrell family; contributions from Adrian Clarke, Bob Cobbing, Jennifer Pike, Betty Radin, Lawrence Upton, Johan de Wit ISBN 0 86162 690 7; 16 pp B5 portrait ?2.50 + ?1.00 p & p for UK * Cobbing, Bob; In Line; A4 card folded to make 4 A5 pages; ISBN 0 86162 314 3 ?1.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Lightsong 2; ISBN 978 0 86162 330 3; 6pp small format in an envelope; December 1983 reissued February 2007 ?3.00 + ?1 (p & p UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Members only; July 30th 2000; ISBN 978-0-86162-999-2 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Number Structures; 8pp printed one side only A5, cover by author; printed .and published in Stockholm and was not offered for sale in UK until recently; April 1977; 978-0-86162-158-3 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Ord book; ISBN 978-1-84254-023-7 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Ow 2; 12 pp; A5 portrait; 1996; ISBN 0 86162 661 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Pixology; 8 pp B6 portrait; ISBN 978-1-84254-055-8; February 2002 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Processual Spin-off; 16pp A5 Japanese fold; December 1983; ISBN 0 86162 327 4 ?3 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Raddle; 8 pp A4 portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-440-9 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob (editor); Seevic's feet; an account of the coming together of Art, English, Drama, Sociology & other students at Soth East Esses VIth form college with Bob Cobbing Sound / Found & Visual poet; ISBN 978-0-86162-438-6; June 1989 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Sign writing; "dedicated to the memory of my father, Rob - who was a signwriter - and an ongoing inspiration to me in my work"; ISBN I 84254 020 3; 25th December 2000; ISBN 978-1-84254-020-6 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Stracci 3; May 1988; ISBN 0 86162 423 8 ?3 + ?1 p & p for UK * Cobbing, Bob; Towards design in poetry? part three; 20 pp; A5 portrait; 30th July 2001; ISBN 978-1-84254-036-7 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob et al; Light - visual poems; March 1994; ISBN 978-0-86162-538-3 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Jennifer; Processual Two: After a fashion; 12 pp quarto; August 1983; ISBN 0 86162 321 5 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & bissett, bill; Fiveways; 6 pp Japanese fold A5; November 1978; reprint 16th May 1992; reprint June 1999; ISBN 978-0-86162-223-8 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Griffiths, Bill (editors); VERBI VISI VOCO a performance of poetry 320 pp; B5 portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-501-7 ?5.00 + ?2.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Hawkins, Ralph; Everyday Pursuits; ISBN 978-1-84254-064-0 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob; Pike, Jennifer & Upton, Lawrence; Curve; ISBN 978-1-84254-011-4 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Segay, Serge; Noise Project; March 1999; 0 86162 866 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Sheppard, Bob; Codes and Diodes; 28 pp A4 portrait; December 1991; ISBN 0 86162 475 0 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Upton, Lawrence (editors); On Word: an anthology of contemporary poetry and method # 2; cover image by Lawrence Upton; features Gilbert Adair, Meredith, Quartermain, Alaric Sumner, Bill Griffiths, Clemente Padin 64 pp B6 portrait; June 2001; ISBN 978-1-84254-002-2 ?5.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Cobbing, Bob & Upton, Lawrence (editors); Word Score Utterance Choreography; ISBN 978-0-86162-750-9 ?9.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Edwards, Ken; My Half of the Conversation; 8pp; A6 portrait; chapbook based on A4 card; May 1980; reissued June 2005; ISBN 978-0-86162-263-4 ?0.60 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Ely, Roger; Dreams, fantasies and recollections; 51 pp B5; February 1987 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Farrell, Patricia; French Aster [Crown Shantung]; ISBN 0 86162 456 4; March 1980 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fencott,Clive; Yodelling up the Canyon; 17pp A4 portrait; December 1977; ISBN 0 86162 187 5 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fetherstone, Patrick; 18 Quadruple Readings; Writers Forum publication #22; WFP 16, 20pp single-sided; 8" x 6", duplicated; cover 9?" x 7?", silkscreened by Jennifer Pike from a design by Bob Cobbing; September 1965, reprinted March 1996; ISBN 978-0-86162-022-7 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Muses awaited; 40 pp; B5 portrait; November 1988; ISBN 978-0-86162-428-7 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Noons and afternoons; 36 pp; A5 portrait; November 1989; ISBN 978-0-86162-441-6 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Schools; 38 pp; A5 portrait; April 1991; ISBN 978-0-86162-480-5 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Standing: a poem in thirty stanzas; 32 pp; A5 portrait; October 1991; ISBN 978-0-86162-491-1 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Stories; ISBN 0 86162 405 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; Towards a picture 32 pp B5; May 1993; ISBN 0 86162 509 9 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fetherston, Patrick; What it is to reflect; 40 pp; A5 portrait; October 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-467-6 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; Antarktika; 22 pp; A5 portrait from A4 folded Japanese fashion, litho; cover by author; January 1973; reprinted November 1981; August 1984; June 1996; ISBN 978-0-86162-092-0 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; Connecting Tubes; 24pp; A4; ISBN 0 86162 264 2 July 1980; second edition June 1996 ?2.50 +?1 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; On criticism; 21pp quarto portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-344-0 ?2.50 +?1 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; O poems; 14pp; ISBN 0 86162 284 7; November 1981, reprinted June 1996 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Finch, Peter; Trowch Eich Radio 'mlaen; 15 pp printed one side only A4 portrait; October 1977; reprinted June 1996; ISBN 0 86162 177 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Fisher, Allen; The Art of Flight VI to IX; Poster poem ISBN 0 86162 297 9 December 1981 reissued March 2007 ?3.00 + ?2.00 (p & p for UK * Fisher, Allen; Confidence in lack; 69 pp A4 portrait; comb bound; cover image by author; May 2007; ISBN 978 -1- 84254 -105 - 0 ?7.00 + ?2.00 (p & p for UK) * Freer, Ulli; 7 inch contents; 15 pp; A4 portrait; November 1997; ISBN 978-0-86162-798-1 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Ganick, Peter; c?fe unreal ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Ganick, Peter; more plush: a dialogue; 28 pp; A5 portrait; ISBN 978-0-86162-582-6; April 1995 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; A text book of drama; 144 pp B5; June 1987; ISBN 0 86162 403 ?6.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; Book of the boat; 26 pp B5 Japanese fold February 1988; ISBN 0 86162 416 5 ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; Forming Four Dock Poems; published with Pirate Press; 4 pp A5 portrait from A4 Japanese folded; cover by Bob Cobbing; September 1977; reprinted several times; reissued March 2007; ISBN 978-0-86162-172-9 ?1.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill (translator); Llywarch Hen: in Welsh / English; translated with introduction and notes by Bill Griffiths; 18 pp A4 landscape; cover by Bob Cobbing, October 1977; ISBN 0 86162 175 ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths, Bill; Sun-Card; 8pp; A6 chapbook based on A4 card; June 1978; ISBN 0 86162 208 1 ?1.00 + ?1.60 (p & p for UK) * Griffiths,Bill; Twenty-five pages; 26 pp qto; ISBN 0 86162 180 0 - November ?5.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Guglielmono, Giorgio; The beautiful poems; 32 pp B5; March 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-452-2 ?3.00 + ?1.00 p & p for UK) * Halsey, Alan; The book of coming forth in official secrecy; ISBN 0 86162 278 1; May 1981 reprinted May 1997 and December 1999 ?4.00 + ?1.00 p & p for UK) * Hansel, Stanislaw; Children of Atlantis; June 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-459-1 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Hansel, Stanislaw; Forcefields in February 1985; 14 pp A4 portrait; June 1990; ISBN 978-0-86162-461-4 ?2.00 + ?1.00 p & p for UK) * Hawkins, Ralph; Pool; 12 pp B6 portrait; July 2000; ISBN 978-0-86162-995-4 ?2.00 + ?0.60 p & p for UK) * Hawkins, Ralph; The Primeval Atom; 978-1-84254-035-0 ?2.00 + ?0.60 p & p for UK) * Hou?dard, Dom Sylvester and Cobbing, Bob (editors); Kroklok # 2; 32 pp; A4 portrait; duplicated; duplicated cover designed by Peter Mayer and Bob Cobbing. Reprints "Three Minimanifestoes" by Bob Cobbing and publishes poems by Raoul Hausmann, Kurt Schwitters, Antonin Artaud, Rabelais, Peter Mayer, Neil Mills, Charles Verey, Hugo Ball, Severini, Theo van Doesburg. Eugen Gomringer, Pierre Albert-Birot, Michel Seuphor, Henri Chopin and Man Ray; notes by Bob Cobbing; September 1971, reissued January 2007; ISBN 978-0-86162-076-0 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Hou?dard, Dom Sylvester and Cobbing, Bob (editors); Kroklok # 3; 32 pp; A4 portrait; duplicated; duplicated cover designer unknown. Feature: Speech as Mime or Gesture (with examples) by Peter Mayer. Poems by Christian Morgenstern, Ernst Jandl, Peter Finch, Jeremy Adler, Michael Chant, Peter Greenham, Brion Gysin, Ilya Zdanevich, Helmut Heissenbutel, Bob Cobbing, August Stramm (introduction to Stramm by Jeremy Adler); notes by Bob Cobbing; December 1972, reissued February 2007; ISBN 978 0 86162 091 3 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Jackson, Tony & Grierson, Myra; Ryma's Throat; 14 pp A4 portrait; ISBN 0 86162 24 6; May 1988 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * James, Elizabeth; Recognition; 978-0-86162-969-5 ?1.00 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Joris, Pierre; Translations from Arthur Rimbaud's Une Saisonen Enfer; 7 A4 sheets in folder; 15th December 1984 reprinted 3 August 1991; ISBN 978-0-86162-342-6 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * levy, d.a.; Scarab Poems; 14 pp Japanese fold A5; June 1978; reprinted 1996; reprinted 2001; ISBN 978-0-86162-202-3 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Manson, Peter; iter atur e; 32 pp B5 portrait; March 1995; ISBN 978-0-86162-570-3 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; Animal Crackers; 13 pp A5 landscape; March 1984; second reprint ????; third reprint October 1988; ISBN 978-0-86162-334-1 ?1.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; Herein lie tales of two inner cities; 27 pp quarto; May 1986, second reprint October 1988; ISBN 97 8-0-86162-381-5 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; La Quinta del Sordo; 8pp; A4 October 1980; reprinted October 1994; ISBN 978-0-86162-265-8 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Monk, Geraldine; Long Wake; cover design Robert Clark; 25pp; quarto w/ Pirate Press; July 1979; ISBN 978-0-86162-243-6 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Mottram, Eric; Towards design in poetry; 62 pp; A4 portrait; litho; 1977 reprinted 1984 and 1988; 2nd edition November 2004 ISBN 1 84254 618 X ?5 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Musgrove, Keith; Tests; 8pp; A6 chapbook based on A4 card; September 19??, reissued November 2006; ISBN 0 86162 248 0. ?0.60 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Mad with music; with Pirate Press; February 1987; reprint July 1989 ISBN 0 86162 398 3 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Mr. Watkins got Drunk and had to be Carried Home; from an idea by William Burroughs; 48 pp, 8" x 6?", litho, cover design by Jeff Nuttall. 12 copies of first edition numbered and signed by the author. Edition of 500. First edition. September 1968; second edition June 1979; ISBN 0 86162 039 9 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Oscar Christ and the Immaculate Conception; WFP 23,) 32pp, 8" x 6?", litho, cover design by Jeff Nuttall; September 1968; reprint (called "edition") August 1970; reprint May 1997; August 1970 reprint reissued November 2006; ISBN 0 86162 038 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Pieces of poetry; 18 pp printed one side only, 9" x 6?", litho, cover design by Jeff Nuttall from photographs by Dave Trace. Edition of 500. 12 copies numbered and signed by the author; February 1966; reprint May 1997; 978-0-86162-023-4 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Scenes and dubs; with Pirate Press; February 1987 reprint July 1989; ISBN 978-0-86162-400-3 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff Supper moves unlight; March 2002; ISBN 978-1-84254-052-7 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff Two nice legs; ISBN 1 84254 058 ?4.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Nuttall, Jeff; Viper; 26 pp; colour cover; March 2002; ISBN 1 84254 057 4 ?3.00.+ ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Rushmer, David; Homage to Throbbing Gristle; 24 pp A4 portrait; November 1993; ISBN 978-0-86162-523-9 ?3.00 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Rushmer, David; Ut-trance; 16 pp A5; ISBN 0 86162 454 8 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sheppard, Robert & Cobbing, Bob; Blatent blather / virulent whoops; ISBN 978-1-84254-041-1 ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sheppard, Robert & Farrell, Patricia; Free Fists; June 1995; ISBN 978-0-86162-601-4. UK ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sheppard, Robert & Farrell, Patricia; Neutral Drums; July 1999; ISBN 978-0-86162-967-1; ?2.50 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Simms, Colin; No North Western Passage; 32 pp A4 landscape, cover Bob Cobbing, litho, November 1976 ISBN 0 86162 141 ?3 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sondheim, Alan; Orders of the real; 44 pp; A4 portrait; cover by author; ISBN 1 84254 601 5; 18 June 2005 reissued January 2007 ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Stickney, Walt Christopher; To Night . Little David on Mouth Harp; 12 pp printed one side only; 10" x 8"; cover and illustrations by Brian McCollum; December 1970 ISBN 0 86162 067; ?1 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; Aberrations of mirrors lenses sight (for three voices); first published as RWC # 36, 1998; second edition; cover by Timothy Emlyn Jones; 25 pp A4 portrait; September 2004; ISBN 978-0-86162-544-4 ?4 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; error studies and Portraits; cover by Alaric Sumner; edited by Lawrence Upton; A4 portrait; 24 pp; copies comb bound; July 2004 reprint August 2004 reprint December 2005; ISBN 978-0-86162-570-3 ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; LETTERS for dear AUGUSTINE - the semantic text i.e. excluding the graphic elements; A4 portrait; 41 pp; edited by Lawrence Upton; some copies comb bound; July 2004; third revised edition January 2007; ISBN 978 1 84254 526 3 ?3.50 + ?1.50 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric et al; Shatter; edited by Lawrence Upton; 16 pp; A5 portrait; March 2007; ISBN 978-1-84254-388-1 ?2.00 + ?0.80 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; Text out of image: Sandra Blow; cover image by Sandra Blow; edited by Lawrence Upton: A4 portrait; 28 pp; July 2004; ISBN 1 84254 528 0 ?4.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; The Instability of Inherence Section 1: exploring The Instability; cover image by author; editorial note by Lawrence Upton; 28 pp A5 portrait; ISBN 978 1 84254 373 3; January 2006 ?2.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; The Instability of Inherence Section 2: exploring inherence; cover image by Lawrence Upton; 24 pp A5 portrait; ISBN 978 1 84254 374 1; 4 February 2006 ?2.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric; The Unspeakable Rooms; A4; 14 pp; comb bound; cover by Lawrence Upton from advertising material for the mid 90s productions; published with words worth books; October 2003; reprinted August 2004; ISBN 1 84254 530 7 ?3.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Sumner, Alaric with McDermott, Rory; The Unspeakable Rooms: a prescript of performance possibilities; edited by & book design by Lawrence Upton; 7 pp; A5 portrait; June 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-527-0 ?1.50 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Thurston, Scott; Stateswalk: Poems July 1991 - June 1993; cover and title page collages by Tom Raworth; January 1994; 38 pp A4 portrait; ISBN 0 86162 532 3 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; DAM Diptych, double A4 card; vispo; June 1995 reprinted 2004; reprinted and reissued in a labelled envelope January 2006 ISBN 0 86162 622 2 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Initial Dance; 20 pp; A5 portrait; 2001; ISBN 978-1-84254-040-4. UK ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Networking; 20 pp; A4 portrait; cover by author; 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-599-7 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Remembering Alaric Sumner; co-published with words worth books; 12 pp; A5 portrait; September 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-549-2 ?1.00 + ?0.60 (p & p for UK) * Upton, Lawrence; Sculptural Calligraphy; 12 pp; A4 portrait; 2006; ISBN 978-1-84254-603-1 ?4.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Valoch, Jiri; Ga, the first and last collection of sound poems; 20 pp A5 folded Japanese fashion, duplicated; cover designed by Bob Cobbing; July 1971; ISBN 978-0-86162-074-6 ?2 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Valoch, Jiri; Semiotic Poems; 30pp; A6 landscape; December 1980; ISBN 978-0-86162-268-9 ?6 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Vassilakis, Nico; The Amputation of L Mendax; cover image by the author; 26 pp; A5 portrait; 2006; ISBN 978 1 84254 385 7. ?2.50 + ?1 (p & p for UK) * Weller, M J; Beowulf Cartoon; introduction by Bill Griffiths; published in association with Visual Associations, London; September 2004; ISBN 978-1-84254-584- ?15 + ?2 (p & p for UK) * Weller M J; Idiotgram; ISBN 1 84254 013 0 ?2.00 + ?1.00 (p & p for UK) * Whiting, John; Cage on cage; 6 pp in A4 plastic wallet; ISBN 0 86162 350 9; March 1985 2nd edition October 1998 ?4 + ?1 p & p for UK) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 10:46:39 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:46:39 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God In-Reply-To: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130746yc327722h6a51a029639ebb09@mail.gmail.com> On 6/10/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the caption > I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. It's a > moving essay, straightforward and sincere. > > I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American > Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty years > with no significant ill effects from his disease. I thought the essay was well done, but perhaps I am biased because of my own diagnosis. I no longer understand the role of objectivity in writing and reading. At least a few of us found Wiman's piece moving; I doubt all of us have a terminal condition beyond life itself. but sympathy/empathy seems a fundamental part of the aesthetic response. Maybe some kind of objective approach is what separates the good authors from the rest (including myself), but in most cases I'm just not that interested in achieving the distance to find out. In others I don't think it's possible. c From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 10:53:15 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:53:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > 'Laundry letters' worth millions > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ > index.html > > LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections > of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his > lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a > Swiss laundry room. > > The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years > by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston > Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John > Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I will continue to be unable to see it. c From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 10:59:29 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:59:29 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hollo sonnets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130759i5b561550pcf86069582cd73f@mail.gmail.com> On 6/10/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.brooklynrail.org/2007/6/books/poetry-roundup > Poetry Roundup > by Jeffrey Cyphers Wright > > Anselm Hollo, Guests of Space (Coffee House Press, 2007) > > After thirty poetry books, Anselm Hollo looks back in these epic sonnets. "Guests in Space" is full of friends and authors from across the ages. An elegiac tone permeates and percolates as Hollo ruminates over life. Reflections are punctuated by quotes and observations. Lyric cement and incisive comment bind the lines into powerful amalgams. > > A very close friend of the poet Ted Berrigan, the collection echoes Berrigan's long sonnet sequence, Many Happy Returns > > And just below that on the same page is a note about a new book by "our own" Bill Knott featuring his poetry + collages by Star Black. I'd never heard of Star Black, but I found an article about her: http://tinyurl.com/2zhprp and there are images of her work here and there on the web. Searching google for "star black collage" leads to, among other things, a few articles about LeBron James, who apparently skipped collage to go pro ... c From bobgrumman Wed Jun 13 12:14:08 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:14:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706130746yc327722h6a51a029639ebb09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003c01c7add5$e1a143b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > On 6/10/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> I'd posted the piece before reading it...now that I have I find the >> caption >> I gave it a bit flip. I had no idea Wiman's had an incurable disease. >> It's a >> moving essay, straightforward and sincere. >> >> I'm afraid I found it at the level of what's in Poetry and the American >> Scholar, at best--although I certainly hope Wiman lives another fifty >> years >> with no significant ill effects from his disease. > > I thought the essay was well done, but perhaps I am biased because of > my own diagnosis. I certainly hope it wasn't as bad as his may be, Chris. > I no longer understand the role of objectivity in writing and reading. Well, I started reading Wiman's essay and disagreed with it all over the place, and didn't think it well-written or interesting. In fact, I went Evelyn Wood on it. Then I got to the part about his being diagnosed with some blood disease that could be fatal, but could be innocuous. Ugh. But, I didn't suddenly change my mind about what I'd read to that point. Enough. I just felt the need not to put a nay vote to the essay on record. --Bob From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 12:17:27 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:17:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: poet finds God In-Reply-To: <003c01c7add5$e1a143b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008601c7aba3$c923bd10$b1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706130746yc327722h6a51a029639ebb09@mail.gmail.com> <003c01c7add5$e1a143b0$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706130917q1c70ad5et586a6d910fcf0247@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Enough. I just felt the need not to put a nay vote to the essay on record. I'm not disputing your vote... the essay and the responses just made me think, again, about the ideas of sentimentality and empathy for readers and writers. I'm always suspicious of writing that is localized in certain ways-- regional writing (what could be worse than being known as an "Alaskan poet?"), personal essays that invoke illness or other catastrophes, that kind of thing. But at the same time, good writing has to be situated in one's landscape, whether physical or mental. What separates a good essay on discovering religion or being diagnosed with a terminal disease from a bad one? And is that set of characteristics different for that kind of writing-- meaning the set of writing that is negatively reviewed as sentimental or positively reviewed as powerful? So it really has little to do with your vote specifically, just the essay itself (and the idea of the personal essay in general). c From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 13 12:42:42 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:42:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: The Writer's Almanac for June 13, 2007 Message-ID: <001d01c7add9$dd1ca920$338d3052@ANNY> William Butler Yeats' Birthday From: The Writer's Almanac Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:24 AM To view a web version of this message, click here VISIT OUR SPONSORS HOW TO LISTEN On the radio Podcast Web archive MAKE A CONTRIBUTION WEDNESDAY, 13 JUNE, 2007 Listen (RealAudio) | How to listen Poems: "A Drinking Song" & "The Lake Isle of Innisfree" by W.B. Yeats. Public Domain. A Drinking Song Wine comes in at the mouth And love comes in at the eye; That's all we shall know for truth Before we grow old and die. I lift the glass to my mouth, I look at you, and I sigh. The Lake Isle of Innisfree I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree, And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made: Nine bean-rows will I have there, a hive for the honey-bee; And live alone in the bee-loud glade. And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow, Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings; There midnight's all a glimmer, and noon a purple glow, And evening full of the linnet's wings. I will arise and go now, for always night and day I hear the lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore; While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey, I hear it in the deep heart's core. Literary and Historical Notes: It is the birthday of William Butler Yeats (books by this author), born in Dublin (1865). He grew up at a time when Ireland was an English colony and most members of the Irish Protestant upper class were pro-British. The Catholic middle class was in favor of Irish independence. It didn't help them get along that Catholics were denied equal access to education and jobs and government positions. William Butler Yeats was brought up in a Protestant family, so he should have been pro-British, but he was actually more interested in mysticism. A friend of his took him to his first s?ance in 1886, and during it Yeats's whole body began to shake. He felt himself thrown back against the wall. It was terrifying, but it also confirmed for him the existence of the spirit world. He became interested in the occult. His father wanted him to become a scientist, but Yeats wrote to his father in a letter, "The mystical life is the center of all that I do and all that I think and all that I write." He began wandering around in an old, dark cloak, studying fairytales and mythology and Buddhism, playing the part of a mystic poet. A woman described him as wearing seedy, black clothes with a big, black bow at his throat, muttering verse to himself with a wild eye. It all changed when he met an Irish nationalist named Maud Gonne, who was also the most beautiful woman he had ever seen, and then he became interested in Irish nationalism in order to impress her. He organized rallies for Irish independence and wrote nationalist plays and poetry. Yeats came to believe that if he could just get in touch with the mythic history of the Irish people, he could write about something that would tie the whole country together - Protestants and Catholics. Maud Gonne married somebody else, a soldier who was a hero of the Easter Uprising in 1916. The Irish Free State came about in 1921, and Yeats served as one of the first members of the new Irish senate. It was William Butler Yeats who said, "The intellect of man is forced to choose perfection of the life or of the work, and if he take the second, must refuse a heavenly mansion raging in the dark." Be well, do good work, and keep in touch?. SPONSOR MESSAGES The Poetry Foundation National broadcasts of The Writer's Almanac Are Supported By The Poetry Foundation, Publisher of Poetry Magazine For Over 90 Years. The Writer's Almanac is produced by Prairie Home Productions and presented by American Public Media. -------------------------------------------------------------- You received this free e-mail newsletter because you previously subscribed or because it was sent to you by a friend. Unsubscribe | Contact Us | Forward to a friend ? 2007 American Public Media 480 Cedar Street, Saint Paul, MN USA 55101 -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Wed Jun 13 13:17:41 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:17:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Chris Lott wrote: > On 6/5/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > 'Laundry letters' worth millions > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ > > index.html > > > > LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections > > of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his > > lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a > > Swiss laundry room. > > > > The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years > > by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston > > Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John > > Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. > > So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing > cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of > the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their > private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than > hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy > money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I > will continue to be unable to see it. > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman Wed Jun 13 14:41:29 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:41:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY><9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >> So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing >> cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of >> the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their >> private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than >> hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy >> money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I >> will continue to be unable to see it. >> >> > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of > demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not > exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? > > -- Jim Aside from that, it seems to me that more times than not when I look at the reproduction of a painting or piece of sculpture in a book, its label says it is from someone's collection. Seems to me, most exhibits I read about have a lot of work from private collections, too. Of course, no one should have anything that not everyone else has, but at least these guys loan it out. --Bob From anny.ballardini Wed Jun 13 14:02:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:02:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY><9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com><648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <002501c7ade5$0c741a40$b7ae3452@ANNY> From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:41 PM >>> So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing >>> cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of >>> the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their >>> private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than >>> hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy >>> money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I >>> will continue to be unable to see it. >>> >>> >> >> If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of >> demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not >> exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? >> >> -- Jim > > Aside from that, it seems to me that more times than not when I look at > the reproduction of a painting or piece of sculpture in a book, its label > says it is from someone's collection. Seems to me, most exhibits I read > about have a lot of work from private collections, too. Of course, no one > should have anything that not everyone else has, but at least these guys > loan it out. > > --Bob > , and maybe they also take care of artworks. But I wanted to answer Jim: Only if there are windmills. From chris.lott Wed Jun 13 14:41:22 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:41:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706131141m31e63d0fo4baa202f9f7cfd1d@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > Aside from that, it seems to me that more times than not when I look at the > reproduction of a painting or piece of sculpture in a book, its label says > it is from someone's collection. Seems to me, most exhibits I read about > have a lot of work from private collections, too. Of course, no one should > have anything that not everyone else has, but at least these guys loan it > out. But that's the problem-- just because the exhibits you see have work from private collections doesn't mean any significant part of the work held in private collections are being exhibited. I'm not jousting with the windmills of making all art free, I just find news about art changing hands from one private owner to another to be a strange kind of news for the rest of us. With letters, a form of writing I believe greatly underrated as art and a kind of historical artifact that is already being killed off by technology, it is even stranger. c From screwzbaran Wed Jun 13 15:23:20 2007 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:23:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> I'd like to volunteer for that effort! On 6/13/07, James Cervantes wrote: > > On 6/13/07, Chris Lott wrote: > > On 6/5/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > > 'Laundry letters' worth millions > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/britain.letters.reut/ > > > index.html > > > > > > LONDON, England (Reuters) -- One of the word's greatest collections > > > of historical letters, including a note written by Napoleon to his > > > lover Josephine, has been found in a filing cabinet tucked away in a > > > Swiss laundry room. > > > > > > The treasure trove of almost 1,000 documents, collected over 30 years > > > by a wealthy Austrian banker, includes letters written by Winston > > > Churchill, Peter the Great, Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander Pushkin, John > > > Donne and Queen Elizabeth I. > > > > So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing > > cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of > > the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their > > private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than > > hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy > > money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I > > will continue to be unable to see it. > > > > > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of > demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not > exist. Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "What is defeat in life? It is not merely making a mistake; defeat means giving up on yourself in the midst of difficulty. What is true success in life? True success means winning in your battle with yourself. Those who persist in the pursuit of their dreams, no matter what the hurdles, are winners in life, for they have won over their weaknesses." - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Jun 13 16:42:56 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:42:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY><9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com><648208b60706131017 t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com><00a601c7adea$798a2e80$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0706131141m31e63d0fo4baa202f9f7cfd1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b901c7adfb$97732210$d4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > But that's the problem-- just because the exhibits you see have work > from private collections doesn't mean any significant part of the work > held in private collections are being exhibited. Oh, I don't know. I'm big on painting, and the art reproduction books have huge amounts of work by painters, and most collectors are pretty free about lending it out. In visual poetry, the American collectors with the best items, Ruth and Marvin Sackner, lend parts of it out all the time, let scholars in to look at anything they want, some of it fairly "valuable," though not up with "real" Painting. And a person off the street with any kind of interest in anything related to visual art would be welcomed in for a tour. The real funny part of all this for me is that probably the best collections of visual art are owned by people like me, with very little money--because we're unknown artists ourselves and exchange our work with other unknown artists, and get gifts, etc., and really have some of the best stuff around--because no one else is interested in the best stuff! Or so we think. But one thing is sure, we get as much pleasure out of our collections as the billionaires get out of theirs. More, I'm certain, because have a deeper understanding of the pieces we have than they have of theirs. --Bob > I'm not jousting with the windmills of making all art free, I just > find news about art changing hands from one private owner to another > to be a strange kind of news for the rest of us. With letters, a form > of writing I believe greatly underrated as art and a kind of > historical artifact that is already being killed off by technology, it > is even stranger. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 14 01:27:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:27:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] POetry Message-ID: <002901c7ae44$a65361c0$963e014f@ANNY> Eating Poetry Ink runs from the corners of my mouth. There is no happiness like mine. I have been eating poetry. The librarian does not believe what she sees. Her eyes are sad and she walks with her hands in her dress. The poems are gone. The light is dim. The dogs are on the basement stairs and coming up. Their eyeballs roll, their blond legs burn like brush. The poor librarian begins to stamp her feet and weep. She does not understand. When I get on my knees and lick her hand, she screams. I am a new man. I snarl at her and bark. I romp with joy in the bookish dark. Mark Strand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 14 01:30:54 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:30:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] an another one by Mark Strand Message-ID: <003901c7ae45$2df90760$963e014f@ANNY> The New Poetry Handbook 1 If a man understands a poem, he shall have troubles. 2 If a man lives with a poem, he shall die lonely. 3 If a man lives with two poems, he shall be unfaithful to one. 4 If a man conceives of a poem, he shall have one less child. 5 If a man conceives of two poems, he shall have two children less. 6 If a man wears a crown on his head as he writes, he shall be found out. 7 If a man wears no crown on his head as he writes, he shall deceive no one but himself. 8 If a man gets angry at a poem, he shall be scorned by men. 9 If a man continues to be angry at a poem, he shall be scorned by women. 10 If a man publicly denounces poetry, his shoes will fill with urine. 11 If a man gives up poetry for power, he shall have lots of power. 12 If a man brags about his poems, he shall be loved by fools. 13 If a man brags about his poems and loves fools, he shall write no more. 14 If a man craves attention because of his poems, he shall be like a jackass in moonlight. 15 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow, he shall have a beautiful mistress. 16 If a man writes a poem and praises the poem of a fellow overly, he shall drive his mistress away. 17 If a man claims the poem of another, his heart shall double in size. 18 If a man lets his poems go naked, he shall fear death. 19 If a man fears death, he shall be saved by his poems. 20 If a man does not fear death, he may or may not be saved by his poems. 21 If a man finishes a poem, he shall bathe in the blank wake of his passion and be kissed by white paper. Mark Strand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Thu Jun 14 11:14:16 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Special Guest-Edited Issue In-Reply-To: <003901c7ae45$2df90760$963e014f@ANNY> Message-ID: <783093.86003.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents [http://www.mipoesias.com/] Guest Editor ? David Trinidad Hanna Andrews Leanne Averbach Dodie Bellamy Charles Bernstein Graeme Bezanson Kristy Bowen Margaret Brady Suzanne Buffam Connie Deanovich C.H. Eding Jim Elledge Edward Field Lisa Fishman Michael Friedman Brad Gooch Chet Gresham Chris Green Bruce Hainley Ian Harris Jana Harris Natalie Hill Brandi Homan Cora Jacobs Charles Jensen Richard Johns Amanda Johnson A. Van Jordan Vincent Katz erica kaufman Nathan Kernan Becca Klaver Brian Kloppenberg Rodney Koeneke Ron Koertge Michael Lally Joan Larkin Dorianne Laux Kimberly Lyons Michael Magee Gillian McCain Sharon Mesmer Elinor Nauen Jo McDougall Richard Meier Michael Montlack Maggie Nelson Linda Oh Daniela Olszewska Maureen Owen Ronald Palmer Ethel Rackin Donald Revell Maxine Scates Jason Schneiderman Lloyd Schwartz Greg Shapiro James Shea Aaron Smith Joan Jobe Smith Joris Soeding BJ Soloy Marti Stephen Mike Topp Andy Trebing Tony Trigilio Jennifer Watman Baron Wormser MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Jun 14 17:55:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:55:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: The Poets' Corner Message-ID: <001001c7aece$ca6c2710$b0ab3252@ANNY> >From James Lord in recounting his experience of posing for Alberto Giacometti, quotation taken from "The Courage to Create" by Rollo May: One day his foot accidentally struck the catch that holds the easel shelf at the proper level, which caused the canvas to fall abruptly for a foot or two. "Oh, excuse me!" he said. I laughed and observed that he'd excused himself as though he'd caused me to fall instead of the painting. "That's exactly what I did feel," he answered. Camille Martin http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=240 Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=241 Snezana Dzakovic http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=242 Mary Kaiser http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=243 Jeff Newberry http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=244 Jenny Boully http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=245 Christian B?k http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=247 Aldo Tambellini http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=248 Rochelle Ratner http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=249 Clarinda Harriss http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=250 Joseph Duemer http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=251 New poems by already featured Poets: Frank Parker: Tucson Blues http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=34 Kenneth Wolman: WOLMA, POLAND http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1929 Kenneth Wolman: The Prison Notebooks http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1943 Halvard Johnson: Tango Bouquet and other poems http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1942 and as a .doc file: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1956 Victor Sosa: Gorri?n (Chorus master) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1944 Tad Richards: SITUATIONS - Foreword: The Epic Newsletter Story http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 Tad Richards: situations - first installment http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 Barry Alpert: FIVE via JEAN-LUC GODARD http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1957 Barry Alpert: VOICE OVER (JONAS MEKAS) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1958 Under Poets on Poets: Euripides by Jon Corelis and ongoing work with new additions http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=66 Roberto Castillo Udiarte introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=71 Trinh Cong Son introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=72 Poems from the Ho Xuan Huong tradition introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=73 Untitled by Anya Logvinova translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1922 Untitled (Night, avenue.) by Aleksander Blok translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1923 Appearance follows the order by which I received the poems. With my acknowledgment to all and my best wishes for a great summer, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Jun 14 20:16:10 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:16:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> > > So these will likely go from being forgotten in the back of a filing > cabinet to being inaccessible to anyone except the acquaintances of > the various, but mostly rich, collectors who buy them for their > private collections. All that hidden art. It's no different than > hearing that some painting I will never get to see was sold for cazy > money by one patron of the arts to another who will put it someplace I > will continue to be unable to see it. > > If the people of the world could unite (hah) for the purpose of demanding free access to all art (hah) then that situation would not exist.??Any volunteers for this Quixotic effort? I think I missed something in this discussion. Isn't there a tremendous amount of art in public collections all over the world. I've been going to public museums for years and I can't say I've seen a fraction of what is out there...you can stand 3 feet away from it and stare as long as you want, I swear. And the admission price is usually about the same as some new Hollywood movie released last week and forgotten in another week. The work in private hands often works way into museum collections. The beauty of those letters, if they were unknown before being auctioned, is that they'll prompt new biographies about their subjects. ?Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott Fri Jun 15 03:14:48 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:14:48 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] sent by (letters) In-Reply-To: <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> References: <005801c7a76b$08622ee0$43df3652@ANNY> <9b1b9dab0706130753g5da0d901w7f81f228041d7be3@mail.gmail.com> <648208b60706131017t2539730m225783023c3ab336@mail.gmail.com> <2d5ffa0b0706131223p2e935d67wbce30fadef80cf4c@mail.gmail.com> <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0706150014n49593f49odd9e1ad19199f161@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > I think I missed something in this discussion. Isn't there a tremendous amount of art in public collections all over the world. I've been going to public museums for years and I can't say I've seen a fraction of what is out there...you can stand 3 feet away from it and stare as long as you want, I swear. And the admission price is usually about the same as some new Hollywood movie released last week and forgotten in another week. The work in private hands often works way into museum collections. > > The beauty of those letters, if they were unknown before being auctioned, is that they'll prompt new biographies about their subjects. I'm not arguing that there isn't a lot of art in museums... I'm simply noting that a bunch of letters we didn't know were kept by one rich guy about being auctioned off to some other rich patron for his or her private collection is a strange kind of news. Work in private hands often makes it into collections that are public. And often it doesn't. Doesn't it seem a little strange to make a big deal over a "treasure trove" of unknown letters that have a good chance of continuing to be hidden? The interesting news would be the letters being made public and available... but if that happens I bet it gets nowhere near the interest as it does while it remains a commodity of the fiscal aristocracy, the possessions of which we generally can't make use of but that our media seems fascinated by nonetheless. c From grahamd Fri Jun 15 10:12:08 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:12:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Aluminum snore Message-ID: <882DECD7-49B9-4F2C-9756-74EDB2FADFC7@ripon.edu> Easily the most entertaining book on my recent arrivals shelf is Dean Young's new one. Here's his take on Kenneth Koch, who like Young himself was never an aluminum snore. . . . Anyone know what happened with DY and UPittsburgh? I wonder why the switch of presses for this new volume. Complete Poems Here's the work of Kenneth Koch. Even the somewhat melancholy poems are happy. He must have been absolutely nuts. No, he wasn't. Nor was he an aluminum snore like Robert Lowell. Gladiolas arrived at the door. Yip yip, said the puppy and Yuff yuff the puppy grown up. About 12 hours hardly total I spent with him before he died, Daddy I almost cry, Oh get over it, he said the first time coming down the hall, he was tall and covered envelopes entirely with the address. There was no fractioning Kenneth Koch, no parts, you always got it all, Terra del Fuego got it all, off-off-off Broadway, the cab driver from the Ivory Coast, hurry, the museum's about to close and must be hustled through, whizzing past the urinal, dizzy with dots, oh great splash the size of a dump truck, I can barely talk when I'm interviewing, what's he saying now that the tape's off about his mother in a white nightgown and Wallace Stevens? Impossible to imagine his eating a tofu burger or waiting very long in a car. He had a letter from Jean Tinguely on his wall that Tinguelyesque apart t'would fall. Even with everything there is a point at which there is no more. --Dean Young. Embryoyo. Believer Books, 2007. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atambellini01 Fri Jun 15 11:36:28 2007 From: atambellini01 (atambellini01 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:36:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: The Poets' Corner In-Reply-To: <001001c7aece$ca6c2710$b0ab3252@ANNY> References: <001001c7aece$ca6c2710$b0ab3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C97D7A13395DBC-D60-370F@WEBMAIL-RE11.sysops.aol.com> thank you I WILL SEND SOME POETRY SOON AND SOME OF THE VIDEO WORK CIAO ALDO -----Original Message----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:55 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] Update: The Poets' Corner ? ? >From James Lord in recounting his experience of posing for Alberto Giacometti, quotation taken from ?The Courage to Create? by Rollo May: ? One day his foot accidentally struck the catch that holds the easel shelf at the proper level, which caused the canvas to fall abruptly for a foot or two. ? ?Oh, excuse me!? he said. I laughed and observed that he?d excused himself as though he?d caused me to fall instead of the painting. ?That?s exactly what I did feel,? he answered. ? ? ? ? Camille Martin http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=240 ? Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=241 ? Snezana Dzakovic http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=242 ? Mary Kaiser http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=243 ? Jeff Newberry http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=244 ? Jenny Boully http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=245 ? Christian B?k http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=247 ? Aldo Tambellini http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=248 ? Rochelle Ratner http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=249 ? Clarinda Harriss http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=250 ? Joseph Duemer http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=251 ? ? ? New poems by already featured Poets: ? Frank Parker: Tucson Blues http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=34 ? Kenneth Wolman: WOLMA, POLAND http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1929 ? Kenneth Wolman: The Prison Notebooks http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1943 ? Halvard Johnson: Tango Bouquet and other poems http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1942 and as a .doc file: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1956 ? Victor Sosa: Gorri?n (Chorus master) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1944 ? Tad Richards: SITUATIONS ? Foreword: The Epic Newsletter Story http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 Tad Richards: situations ? first installment http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1952 ? Barry Alpert: FIVE via JEAN-LUC GODARD http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1957 ? Barry Alpert: VOICE OVER (JONAS MEKAS) http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1958 ? ? ? Under Poets on Poets: ? Euripides by Jon Corelis and ongoing work with new additions http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=66 ? Roberto Castillo Udiarte introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=71 ? Trinh Cong Son introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=72 ? Poems from the Ho Xuan Huong tradition introduced and translated by Linh Dinh http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=73 ? Untitled by Anya Logvinova translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1922 ? Untitled (Night, avenue?) by Aleksander Blok translated by Larissa Shmailo http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1923 ? ? Appearance follows the order by which I received the poems. With my acknowledgment to all and my best wishes for a great summer, ? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jun 15 12:12:31 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:12:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <8C97CF982CF27A7-51C-215B@FWM-M34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 15 13:04:26 2007 From: anny.ballardini (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:04:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: That Unruly, Serendipitous Show in Venice Message-ID: <200706151704.l5FH4Qir024828@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it. ARTS / ART & DESIGN | June 15, 2007 Art Review | Venice Biennale: That Unruly, Serendipitous Show in Venice By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN Much of this biennale murmurs, it doesn't shout. I doubt this fair will be recalled as groundbreaking or dynamic, but it is an independent show, strong in its convictions. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/arts/design/15veni.html?ex=1182571200&en=0578c176b3d9eff8&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Jun 15 15:23:01 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:23:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new interpretation. What does this mean to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Fri Jun 15 15:37:08 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:37:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: It means it's one of them pregnant quotations-- never sitting still, never settling for one meaning. Hal "Things are more like they are now than they ever were." --Dwight David Eisenhower Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jun 15, 2007, at 2:23 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new > interpretation. What does this mean to you? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Skip Fox > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: > > ?The advantage of having at one?s borders a hereditary enemy is > immense.? > > --Michael Serres > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Fri Jun 15 16:15:16 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:15:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <000501c7af89$e95683d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> A lilting Hobbesian recognition that, as Franklin suggested, "Necessity's a mother." Seriously, I remembered the quote as "The advantage of having a sworn enemy on one's border is incalculable," which I like better than the original except for "hereditary" and, maybe, "on." I liked it so much in memory I wanted to post so I looked it up. Michael Serres's prose is often so provocative that it seems to mean many things on reconsideration. I recommend his entire book _Genesis_ (U of Michigan P). In a way it _is_ Hobbesian, but the lilt seems to be in the fact of how its realization is taken, not in despair, but as a definite human provocation. (The quote, itself, is without tooth or fang, instead focusing on the beneficial quality of the effect. Seems very mental, not abrasive in torque.) Anyway . . . -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 2:23 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new interpretation. What does this mean to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres _____ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Fri Jun 15 16:18:09 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:18:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <001a01c7af8a$4b2b8740$0201a8c0@LindaSue> If he is speaking of totalitarian regimes, it means that having an enemy closeby makes it easier for dictators to keep their citizens under control by constantly playing on those citizens' fears that that enemy is always ready to attack. Examples are North Korea, Cuba, and Iran, whose totalitarian leaders try to keep their citizens believing that U.S. and Israel may attack them at any time without a reason. At the present time, the "hereditary enemy on the border" speaks more relevantly for communist North Korea, with a democratic South Korea on its border, and communist Cuba, with a democratic U.S. a mere 90 miles away. But if Iraq ever becomes a truly functioning democracy, then Iran will have its nemesis "on the border"; that is why Iran is trying so hard to keep that from happening. Iranian leaders are using that advantage already while trying to scuttle the ship of democracy next door. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new interpretation. What does this mean to you? ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." --Michael Serres ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Fri Jun 15 16:34:14 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:34:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: In-Reply-To: <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> References: <000001c7af68$006cd320$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007201c7af82$9715dc30$b8af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60706151334w5a3bd8e0i93e73cfce353add8@mail.gmail.com> "hereditary enemy" = an enemy you know well. Bush shoulda picked on the Brits. - Jim On 6/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > I read the quote several times and every time I got a slightly new > interpretation. What does this mean to you? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Skip Fox > To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Quote du jour: > > > > > > "The advantage of having at one's borders a hereditary enemy is immense." > > --Michael Serres > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames Sat Jun 16 11:07:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:07:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Michael Hamburger obit Message-ID: _http://books.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2099883,00.html_ (http://books.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2099883,00.html) Michael Hamburger Poet, translator and academic, more acclaimed in Germany than in Britain Jonathan Fryer Monday June 11, 2007 The Guardian The poet, translator, critic and amateur horticulturalist, Michael Hamburger, who has died aged 83, was a serious voice in an increasingly superficial age. He was out of tune with what a younger generation of poets were writing, and railed against the shallowness and commercialisation of the modern world, from his fastness: a farmhouse surrounded by orchards in Middleton, Suffolk. None the less, his work received much critical acclaim. He was revered at the various academic institutions at which he taught, though it rankled that he was better known to the wider British public as a translator, rather than as a poet. Perhaps the greatest irony of his life was that towards the end, his poetic standing was higher in Germany than in England, his English-language originals translated into German by the much younger Austrian poet of British parentage, Peter Waterhouse. Like Waterhouse, Hamburger was born in Berlin, the son of a distinguished German-Jewish professor of paediatrics, Richard Hamburger. The Hamburger household was both cultured and disciplined, qualities which Michael to a large extent inherited. He was startled to be rounded on in his early adulthood by the proletarian poet Jesse Tor, who denounced him as "irredeemably bourgeois". ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 16 18:05:45 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:05:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Jun 16 17:11:09 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:11:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 16 18:11:54 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:11:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? He didn't say simply put together. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sat Jun 16 19:54:07 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:54:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <004d01c7b071$a279c1f0$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Jun 16 19:30:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 19:30:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:53:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Sun Jun 17 05:32:49 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 04:32:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Jun 17 07:14:03 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:14:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <003101c7b0d0$a4111ea0$94fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan I certainly don't think poetry is superior to film-making but there seems to me a clear difference between (creatively) selecting images which one uses to make one's artwork, and (creatively)selecting images and (creatively) translating them into words which one then uses to make one's artwork. A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Jun 17 07:56:20 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:56:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fair point. But my problem with the definition is that it is so simple that it doesn't function. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to distinguish poetry from Op-eds or sociology textbooks in any useful way. Lots of language provokes ideas or emotions. Poetry swings them. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:11 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: >> Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that >> creates ideas and emotions. > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > He didn't say simply put together. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Jun 17 11:40:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:40:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms References: Message-ID: <007e01c7b0f5$d87d12a0$8bad3252@ANNY> I think I'll have to agree with James. If you look at art, masterpieces were painted by pupils and then the Master took the brush and gave his strokes. It is nothing but the genial intuition that only few have (thanks to experience, practice, and something that can be defined: talent). As Hitchcock said, just pieces of shots put together, but the way you do it makes the difference and the differance! From: David Graham Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:56 PM Fair point. But my problem with the definition is that it is so simple that it doesn't function. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to distinguish poetry from Op-eds or sociology textbooks in any useful way. Lots of language provokes ideas or emotions. Poetry swings them. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:11 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? He didn't say simply put together. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 17 12:22:14 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:22:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: David, I won't go out too far on a limb to defend that defintion. Definitions of poetry, as we've discussed over the years on this list, are difficult to compose in any way that does justice to what the word 'poetry' encompasses Sometimes the 'simple' defintion works best. The more we try to elaborate on what makes poetry tick, the less life the defintion seems to have...like trying to describe time by a doing techinical drawing of the inner workings of a clock. The essence gets lost. I think Hitchcock was being a bit flip...but he was also trying to demystify the process a bit. In the manner of that famous exchange between Mallarme and Degas, where Degas is supposed to have remarked something to the effect of, "I have many ideas for poems but I can never seem to make one." And Mallarme responds, "But, Mssr. Degas, poems are not made of ideas, poems are made of words." Hitchcock's definition of cinema being along those lines. Of course Degas should have retorted, "Ah, yes, just as my paintings are made of only paint. Thank you for reminding me of that fact." 'Solved by substitution of terms' is a collection of quotes I have complied by philosophers and various artists and whereby, with a few exchanges of terms, I convert their quotes into something related to the art of poetry. Finnegan In a message dated 6/17/2007 8:55:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Fair point. But my problem with the definition is that it is so simple that it doesn't function. As far as I can tell it doesn't seem to distinguish poetry from Op-eds or sociology textbooks in any useful way. Lots of language provokes ideas or emotions. Poetry swings them. ======================================== David Graham _grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) Home Page: _http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html_ (http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html) Poetry Library: _http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html_ (http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html) ========================================== On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:11 PM, _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) wrote: In a message dated 6/16/2007 6:09:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) writes: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 17 13:16:19 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:16:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 6/17/2007 6:12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan I certainly don't think poetry is superior to film-making but there seems to me a clear difference between (creatively) selecting images which one uses to make one's artwork, and (creatively)selecting images and (creatively) translating them into words which one then uses to make one's artwork. A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images. --Bob G. And words and musical score are important parts of the filmmaker's toolkit as well. The 'translation issue' of words to 'mind's eye' (or mind's ear, nose, and sense of touch, for that matter) is both a problem and a strength for poetry over other visual mediums that can employ explicit imagery. The cinematographer shows us a specific apple on a limb, one of a particular color and lit in a certain way. The poet might say "A dapple of light on an apple in late afternoon". The poet can't show the reader explicitly what is to be seen. (The poet is apt to compensate for that lack of an ability to render as 'well-seen' or to augment her/his image with sound effects, as I've done so obviously with dapple-apple pair.) Neither filmmaker nor poet can control what will be 'made of' the image once it enters the mind, what associations will be evoked, etc. Yet the reader is freer to 'see' the apple as s/he might envision it. ('Choice' may not have as much to do with that seeing as predisposition due to experience.) Whereas the film viewer must take in what is being shown, must 'sit still for what is being shown', one might say. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Jun 17 14:51:44 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:51:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the word poem poesis or "making?" I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. Jeff Newberry On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more > accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Graham > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates > ideas and emotions. > > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Jun 17 16:22:15 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:22:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another e-book from Vida Loca Books Message-ID: <648208b60706171322q4e720ef7x5b391a2782745b50@mail.gmail.com> Happy to announce the publication of "from Mr. Bondo's Unshared Life" by Vida Loca Books. It's an e-book available as a pdf download and if it's not appearing as an attachment here, just e-mail me and I will send it on. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mr. Bondo.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 250062 bytes Desc: not available URL: From halvard Sun Jun 17 17:02:16 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:02:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Vida Loca Books Message-ID: <56C28037-F597-4D21-B3A9-250198725761@earthlink.net> For information on Vida Loca Books, please click below-- http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/Vida%20Loca%20Books.html Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Sun Jun 17 17:12:28 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: <200706171933.l5HJX7is014920@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Jun 17 18:01:57 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:01:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] impotence of proofreading Message-ID: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjhOBiSk8Gg_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjhOBiSk8Gg) I ran across a link to this video yesterday on someone's blog. It's funny...esp. for those who teach young students. But the clip shows how the slam format, of which Taylor Mali is a master, can get in the way. The slam performance is usually limited, in competition, to 3 minutes. Thus, slam poets think they must fill the full three minutes or they've left something on the table...of course, as is the case in this piece, if you don't have enough say, you keep saying it, and saying it again in different ways, till your alotted time is up, leaving much room for that 'red penis' to have worked its magic, had you not crafted the piece for the slam format. You can tell by Billy Collins' expression, that he gets it, he got it, he really got the joke of the piece/poem, and now is waiting for it to end. Being a master of the typo...I really shouldn't speech. Finnegan ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists Sun Jun 17 20:45:24 2007 From: lists (Thomas Murphy) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:45:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thinning the Shelves Message-ID: <515f75670706171745s6c938c18qbb342da83336ce7b@mail.gmail.com> Hello New-Poetry. I've been a reader-lurker here for the past few years ... and have received much from you all. So here's my chance to give back a little. I'm presently thinning out my bookshelves and am offering the chosen titles to any willing receiver. Right now I've got a smattering of poetry, a bunch of film-related books, and some odds & ends. The list will grow as the summer progresses. Free for the asking (help with postage appreciated). Just follow the process I indicate on my blog. You'll find that process and the list of books at http://brtom.typepad.com/two/books_for_you.html Thanks, Tom Murphy http://brtom.typepad.com/two/ http://brtom.typepad.com/ From bobgrumman Sun Jun 17 21:50:43 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:50:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011201c7b14b$1826d490$94fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. --David Baratier That would depend on one's definition of "image." --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 05:14:21 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:14:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <003101c7b0d0$a4111ea0$94fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007701c7b189$0ea48f50$eca93452@ANNY> Let me add Bob that behind it all there is the creative mind. It is true that the director chooses images, but s/he is the one that decides what to shoot first, and out of a myriad of shots finally selects several frames that best suit his/her original idea. Instead of dealing with the visual the poet deals with words, which in the very end could also have a visual quality if we treasure Pythagoras words: Each number had its own personality - masculine or feminine, perfect or incomplete, beautiful or ugly. This feeling modern mathematics has deliberately eliminated, but we still find overtones of it in fiction and poetry. Ten was the very best number: it contained in itself the first four integers - one, two, three, and four [1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10] - and these written in dot notation formed a perfect triangle. interesting within this context is Dan Waber's site that features the interpretation of the letters of the alphabet by different Authors: http://www.logolalia.com/abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz/ there is a certain school in Poetry that tries to eliminate the visual for the speculative or a particular stylistic form, I reach the speculative through the visual, at least this is the way I can work and what I most appreciate in poetry. From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:14 PM Cinema is simply pieces of film put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions.?Alfred Hitchcock Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. But poetry also creates images; cinema is images. --Bob G. Selection (in cinema or poetry) is creation. Finnegan I certainly don't think poetry is superior to film-making but there seems to me a clear difference between (creatively) selecting images which one uses to make one's artwork, and (creatively)selecting images and (creatively) translating them into words which one then uses to make one's artwork. A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images. --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 08:13:29 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:13:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) that we only experience three things: images, concepts and emotions. Images are what we perceive sensually. Concepts are abstract understandings of them (and may include images). Emotions are simply the pain or pleasure they cause one to feel. Can anyone think of anything else? --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baratier To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Jun 18 07:15:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:15:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00e801c7b199$f3899060$eca93452@ANNY> Do not know if I agree with your distinction of images and emotions : I see emotions as being more sensual than images and yes, you can have an emotional image ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: editor at pavementsaw.org ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) that we only experience three things: images, concepts and emotions. Images are what we perceive sensually. Concepts are abstract understandings of them (and may include images). Emotions are simply the pain or pleasure they cause one to feel. Can anyone think of anything else? --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baratier To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps become the interest that replaces the images but they are not images themselves. "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts with images that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with words that he uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Mon Jun 18 08:33:31 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:33:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, except the experience of experiencing the language. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the word poem poesis or "making?" I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. Jeff Newberry On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cheekc Mon Jun 18 08:49:33 2007 From: cheekc (cheekc) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:49:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <2820372E-0818-41B7-9FB6-8FAEEB0CE8A3@muohio.edu> Hi Bob, i'm reposting this wiki stuff on the term image. My concern is that broadly the use and foregrounding of such a term as Image lumps that which can be perceived by our senses way too much into the retinal and concepts related thereof. sound, for example does begin to enter lower down on this def list but . . . . In common usage, an image (from Latin imago) or picture is an artifact that reproduces the likeness of some subject?usually a physical object or a person. Images may be two dimensional, such as a photograph, or three dimensional such as in a statue. They are typically produced by optical devices?such as a cameras, mirrors, lenses, telescopes, microscopes, etc. and natural objects and phenomena, such as the human eye or water surfaces. The word image is also used in the broader sense of any two- dimensional figure such as a map, a graph, a pie chart, or an abstract painting. In this wider sense, images can also be produced manually, such as by drawing, painting, carving, by computer graphics technology, or a combination of the two, especially in a pseudo- photograph. A volatile image is one that exists only for a short period of time. This may be a reflection of an object by a mirror, a projection of a camera obscura, or a scene displayed on a cathode ray tube. A fixed image, also called a hardcopy, is one that has been recorded on a material object, such as paper or textile. A mental image exists in an individual's mind: something one remembers or imagines. The subject of an image need not be real; it may be an abstract concept, such as a graph, function, or "imaginary" entity. For example, Sigmund Freud claimed to have dreamt purely in aural-images of dialogues. The development of synthetic acoustic technologies and the creation of sound art have led to a consideration of the possibilities of a sound-image comprised of irreducible phonic substance beyond linguistic or musicological analysis. love and love cris On Jun 18, 2007, at 8:13 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Follow-up. Seems to me (without spending hours of thought on it) > that we only experience three things: images, concepts and > emotions. Images are what we perceive sensually. Concepts are > abstract understandings of them (and may include images). Emotions > are simply the pain or pleasure they cause one to feel. Can anyone > think of anything else? > > --Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Baratier > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 36, Issue 20 > > In many strains of the art, poetry does not need or use images. > Take Oulipo, Jackson MacLow or any other processed based poetry. > The "field" and variations that appear on its surface perhaps > become the interest that replaces the images but they are not > images themselves. > > "A more accurate way of seeing it, for me: the film-maker starts > with images > that he uses to create ideas and emotions; the poet starts with > words that he > uses to create ideas and emotions . . . and images." --Bob G. > > > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > PO Box 6291 > Columbus, OH 43206 > http://pavementsaw.org > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jun 18 10:05:27 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:05:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: Agreed. Experience is a bad teacher and ought to be fired. So is language. Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Jun 18, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through > language, except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root > of the word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory > of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience > different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, > something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but > more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > lsg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that >> creates ideas and emotions. > ===================== > > Simply, huh? > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Jun 18 11:18:18 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:18:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Substitution of Terms References: <377941.22909.qm@web83828.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001901c7b1a2$1a89b840$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <2820372E-0818-41B7-9FB6-8FAEEB0CE8A3@muohio.edu> Message-ID: <004401c7b1bb$e8475c60$44fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Hi Bob, i'm reposting this wiki stuff on the term image. My concern is that broadly the use and foregrounding of such a term as Image lumps that which can be perceived by our senses way too much into the retinal and concepts related thereof. sound, for example does begin to enter lower down on this def list but . . . . In common usage, an image (from Latin imago) or picture is an artifact that reproduces the likeness of some subject?usually a physical object or a person. Images may be two dimensional, such as a photograph, or three dimensional such as in a statue. They are typically produced by optical devices?such as a cameras, mirrors, lenses, telescopes, microscopes, etc. and natural objects and phenomena, such as the human eye or water surfaces. The word image is also used in the broader sense of any two-dimensional figure such as a map, a graph, a pie chart, or an abstract painting. In this wider sense, images can also be produced manually, such as by drawing, painting, carving, by computer graphics technology, or a combination of the two, especially in a pseudo-photograph. A volatile image is one that exists only for a short period of time. This may be a reflection of an object by a mirror, a projection of a camera obscura, or a scene displayed on a cathode ray tube. A fixed image, also called a hardcopy, is one that has been recorded on a material object, such as paper or textile. A mental image exists in an individual's mind: something one remembers or imagines. The subject of an image need not be real; it may be an abstract concept, such as a graph, function, or "imaginary" entity. For example, Sigmund Freud claimed to have dreamt purely in aural-images of dialogues. The development of synthetic acoustic technologies and the creation of sound art have led to a consideration of the possibilities of a sound-image comprised of irreducible phonic substance beyond linguistic or musicological analysis. love and love cris Sure seems as though you and I are on one side of what an image is, and Wikipedia is on the other, Cris. I wouldn't say Wikipoo, as I call it, is always wrong, but always limited, and often wrong. But maybe there's some term out there I'm unfamiliar with or for some obscure reason am blocked from that would cover a musical chord, for instance, or a smell, or all the other kinds of things not just visual that I would call images. And maybe there's some general term that would cover visual image and all these other things. In any case, thanks for the reply! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 18 10:28:35 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706180728g313be70cx399602c6e3064ff1@mail.gmail.com> I heard that Experience was suspended for three weeks with no pay after some sort of incident with a freshman girl. Language was fired from a full-time position several years ago because it was so unreliable. These days, however, Language occasionally adjuncts. Jeff On 6/18/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Agreed. Experience is a bad teacher and ought to be fired.So is language. > Hal > > "Everything should be made as simple as possible, > but not simpler." > --Albert Einstein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Jun 18, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, > except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the > word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of > poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from > what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more > > accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* David Graham > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > > creates ideas and emotions. > > > > ===================== > > > > Simply, huh? > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 18 10:29:34 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:29:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's prose. Jeff Newberry On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, > except the experience of experiencing the language. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the > word poem poesis or "making?" > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of > poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from > what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more > > accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* David Graham > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > > creates ideas and emotions. > > > > ===================== > > > > Simply, huh? > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > Home Page: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > Poetry Library: > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Mon Jun 18 10:43:34 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:43:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry creates experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's prose. Jeff Newberry On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, except the experience of experiencing the language. lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of the word poem poesis or "making?" I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. Jeff Newberry On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." lsg ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that creates ideas and emotions. ===================== Simply, huh? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Jun 18 11:08:35 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:08:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com> <001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <731bb17a0706180808i514d4837kda34207555e7a102@mail.gmail.com> Well, that's an interesting proposition; and though I feel that you're merely trying to bait me into a fight, I'll bite. What I hear you saying: poetry is a one-to-one project. A poet feels lonely when he sees a paper cup blowing down a gravel road. Said poet writes poem about experience. Reader reads poem, feels same emotion. For me, poetry just isn't that simple. It's much, much more complex. For the love of Pete, language isn't that simple, either. I'm not sure how the issue can't be tangled. I mean, we've been discussing the same thing since, what, Aristotle's Poetics? Before you make giant, sweeping generalizations about one the most important poets of the 20th century, I'd read a bit of what he has to say. No one else has joined in the discussion, but I'm pretty certain that I'm selling Crane's theory of poetry short. Jeff Newberry On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > I don't think the issue is at all tangled: poetry does render > experience; it does not create it. If Hart Crane says poetry creates > experience instead of rendering it, he is wrong. > > lsg > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Sent:* Monday, June 18, 2007 9:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > Before this gets too tangled, I'd ask you to check out Hart Crane's prose. > > Jeff Newberry > > On 6/18/07, Linda Sue Grimes < suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Yes, the poet creates the poem, but not the emotions, ideas, or the > > experience that the poem renders. I do not see how "poetry is the > > experience itself." Experience itself is not gained through language, > > except the experience of experiencing the language. > > > > lsg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jeff Newberry > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > > *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:51 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > I'd argue that's exactly what poetry does--creates. Isn't the root of > > the word poem poesis or "making?" > > > > I don't have my Hart Crane here at the desk, but isn't his theory of > > poetry something along these lines?: poetry doesn't render an > > experience--poetry is the experience itself, a new experience different from > > what emotion/image triggered the original poem, something separate. > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > > On 6/17/07, Linda Sue Grimes wrote: > > > > > > I don't see how it "creates" them, perhaps "re-creates" them...but > > > more accurately "dramatizes," or "portrays." > > > > > > lsg > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > *From:* David Graham > > > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:11 PM > > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2007, at 6:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Poetry is simply pieces of language put together in a manner that > > > creates ideas and emotions. > > > > > > ===================== > > > > > > Simply, huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > > > David Graham > > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > > > > Home Page: > > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > > > > > Poetry Library: > > > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Jun 18 11:14:21 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:14:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Solved by substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> References: <001301c7b0c2$78daaed0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><731bb17a0706171151w1637e9ev6fc2a73772986658@mail.gmail.com><001901c7b1a4$e1e6a310$0201a8c0@LindaSue> <731bb17a0706180729r64964b4bvf6833ab1890f2c70@mail.gmail.com> <002601c7b1b7$0ca57510$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Message-ID: <8A8A90A8-11F3-4A0A-AA92-534B8D390EC6@earthlink