From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 09:21:20 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 07:21:20 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
	<00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>

Why must there be "ranking"?

- Jim

On 12/31/06, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
> I'm trying to get two Very Important Essays written before my Christmas
> vacation ends, so I should not be posting this, but will, anyway.  There are
> so many problems with assigning influentiality to any poet, it's hard to
> know how to make the word work.  Here's one question for those who take the
> word to mean what stasguards mean by it, which I take to be amount of time
> devoted to a poet's followers in college classrooms.  The question: who
> should be considered more influential, Smith, a poet who is the first to
> write poems about cows, and is follwed by a thousand mediocre poets all
> writing about cows, or Jones, a poet who is the first to use ink of
> different colors in poems and is followed by seven poets who write excellent
> poems doing that?  Or, who is more influential, a poet like Bukowski who has
> influenced a huge number of poets or a poet like Stevens who has influenced
> a smaller number of better poets?  A related question: who is the more
> influential poet, one who influences later poets to treat a certain subject
> in their poems that wasn't in poetry before him, or a poet who influences a
> much smaller number of poets to do something significantly new in poetry
> (yes, like including aesthetically-singificant graphics in them)?  Or a poet
> who is widely but trivially influential versus one whose influence is felt
> by only a few but is significant.
>
> My five, by the way: Whitman, Longfellow (probably still the most
> influential American poet if it's a matter of number of followers), Pound,
> Cummings, Williams.  Not counting poets in their prime after Plath (to
> follow Wiman's example).  And with the disclaimer that this list in without
> Crisman-level "thinking."  If I were to write about influential American
> poets, I'd have a longer list, and would have trouble ranking them.
>
> --Bob G.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 09:24:57 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 07:24:57 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic dialogue?
In-Reply-To: <e8b111d70612311854r56d80d37o3997e78c776bc1ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c46.ad22c4c.32c873ef@aol.com>
	<003201c72c96$9a9d38e0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<e8b111d70612311020hcf3e6e8mc596ab251ec462bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<004001c72d39$a217e810$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<e8b111d70612311854r56d80d37o3997e78c776bc1ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60701010624v5030b0f2u223c40d6a5169db7@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/31/06, Joseph Duemer <duemer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tad, I think what Don meant or what he was gesturing toward was the desire
> of the artist to retreat into anonymity while at the same time showing
> mastery. Think of the guild apprentice in the middle ages producing his
> "masterpiece" -- a technical term, that -- in order to become a journeyman.
> How much "originality" would that masterpiece have shown? Of course this is
> not the middle ages & aesthetic expectations, & conventions change. I don't
> think Don -- the only Pulitzer Prize winner I am entitled to refer to by
> first name -- aspired to a period style because he wanted to write the
> workshop poem, so called. I think he wished for a period style because he
> didn't believe in bullshit.

"Bullshit" meaning tricks, gimmicks, a cooked up "style"?  Aside from
that, don't we all write in this period's styles?

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From tad at opus40.org  Mon Jan  1 10:01:14 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:01:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic dialogue?
References: <c46.ad22c4c.32c873ef@aol.com><003201c72c96$9a9d38e0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><e8b111d70612311020hcf3e6e8mc596ab251ec462bd@mail.gmail.com><004001c72d39$a217e810$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><e8b111d70612311854r56d80d37o3997e78c776bc1ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<648208b60701010624v5030b0f2u223c40d6a5169db7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009a01c72db5$aefb8c40$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I'd guess "bullshit" meaning tricks to simulate originality.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic dialogue?


> On 12/31/06, Joseph Duemer <duemer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tad, I think what Don meant or what he was gesturing toward was the 
>> desire
>> of the artist to retreat into anonymity while at the same time showing
>> mastery. Think of the guild apprentice in the middle ages producing his
>> "masterpiece" -- a technical term, that -- in order to become a 
>> journeyman.
>> How much "originality" would that masterpiece have shown? Of course this 
>> is
>> not the middle ages & aesthetic expectations, & conventions change. I 
>> don't
>> think Don -- the only Pulitzer Prize winner I am entitled to refer to by
>> first name -- aspired to a period style because he wanted to write the
>> workshop poem, so called. I think he wished for a period style because he
>> didn't believe in bullshit.
>
> "Bullshit" meaning tricks, gimmicks, a cooked up "style"?  Aside from
> that, don't we all write in this period's styles?
>
> -- Jim
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan  1 10:28:42 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:28:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com><00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> Why must there be "ranking"?
>
> - Jim

Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so food, 
bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore 
rankings and read every everything.

--Bob 




From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 10:32:16 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:32:16 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
	<00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Why must there be "ranking"?
> >
> > - Jim
>
> Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so food,
> bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore
> rankings and read every everything.
>

So how would you rank Whitman, Longfellow, Pound, Cummings, Williams
in respect to each other?

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan  1 11:14:31 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:14:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com><00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com><004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801c72dbf$ed36e630$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

>> > Why must there be "ranking"?
>> >
>> > - Jim
>>
>> Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so food,
>> bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore
>> rankings and read every everything.
>>
>
> So how would you rank Whitman, Longfellow, Pound, Cummings, Williams
> in respect to each other?
>
> -- Jim

I wasn't ranking them, just mentioning them as, off the top of my head, the 
most influential.  That's not necessarily the same as the best.  Mediocre 
and bad poets can be influential, good poets uninfluential.  But I'd rank 
them Cummings, Pound, Williams, Whitman, Longfellow.  I'll leave it to you 
to figure out whether my list goes from best to worst or the other way.

(I consider both Stevens and Roethke equal to Cummings.)

--Bob




From duemer at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 11:14:39 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:14:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
	<00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701010814p406a5cf2qe1a62277940ce07@mail.gmail.com>

Any list of influential American poets that dosen't include Muddy Waters is,
at best, incomplete.

jd

On 1/1/07, James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/1/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Why must there be "ranking"?
> > >
> > > - Jim
> >
> > Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so
> food,
> > bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore
> > rankings and read every everything.
> >
>
> So how would you rank Whitman, Longfellow, Pound, Cummings, Williams
> in respect to each other?
>
> -- Jim
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 11:58:51 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 07:58:51 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <005801c72dbf$ed36e630$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
	<00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>
	<005801c72dbf$ed36e630$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701010858m3bb5f40gb8e720c67329eced@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/1/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> (I consider both Stevens and Roethke equal to Cummings.)

In terms of influence or quality? I'm assuming your list is best to
works, which puts Stevens and Roethke in good company. I've never
really "gotten" Stevens, myself. I keep returning, figuring eventually
it'll connect with me somehow...

c


From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  1 12:18:24 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:18:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New Titles from University of California Press
Message-ID: <bed.679e6f1.32ca9c60@aol.com>

The Poem of the Cid
Lesley B. Simpson, translator
 
Students of Spanish literature have long been familiar with this  
eight-hundred-year-old epic which details the legendary exploits of the  
soldier-adventurer Ruy D?az of Bivar, the Cid, "he who in happy . . . 
 
_http://go.ucpress.edu/1055.html_ (http://go.ucpress.edu/1055.html) 
 
Subjects: Literature; European Literature; Literature in Translation;  Poetry
978-0-520-01176-2, paper  $16.95


University of California Press | 2120  Berkeley Way | Berkeley, CA 94704
US: 510.642.4247 | UK: 011.44.1243.843291  

To forward this e-mail to a friend, please click here. 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  1 12:29:34 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:29:34 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
Message-ID: <cde.73617a5.32ca9efe@aol.com>

 
_http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm_ 
(http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm)  
(http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm) 

NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
$50,000 INDIVIDUAL FELLOWSHIPS  


A new charitable arts organization called United States Artists (USA)  
announced last month that it will award annual grants of fifty thousand dollars  
each to fifty artists from around the country, including poets, fiction writers,  
and creative nonfiction writers. The USA Fellowships, which will also be 
offered  in the categories of architecture and design, dance, music, theater, and 
visual  arts, are given to encourage recipients ?to test new ideas and 
applications in  their work? or to pursue their art full-time. The first winners?
chosen from a  group of more than three hundred artists at all stages of their 
careers,  nominated by a group of a hundred and fifty arts leaders?will be 
announced at a  ceremony in New York City on December 4.
 
The formation of USA, whose mission is ?to nurture, support, and strengthen  
the work of America?s finest living artists,? was inspired by a 2003 Urban  
Institute study titled ?Investing in Creativity: A Study of the Support  
Structures for U.S. Artists.? The founding donors, who contributed an initial  $20 
million in funding, include the Ford, Prudential, Rasmuson, and Rockefeller  
charitable foundations. Additional financial commitments from other individuals  
and organizations, such as Agnes Gund, Eli and Edythe Broad, the Todd Simon  
Foundation, and the Target chain of stores, will ensure that the fellowships  
will be awarded in future years.
 
For more information about USA, visit the Web site.
 
 
 (http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm)  
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Jan  1 12:31:44 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:31:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com><00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com><004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8b111d70701010814p406a5cf2qe1a62277940ce07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002001c72dca$b4f72d10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Disagree -- some of Muddy's best songs were written by Willie Dixon, who I'd put on the list. Dixon was the first great crafter of different personae in the blues, especially in the songs he wrote for Muddy and Howlin' Wolf. But Chuck Berry would definitely go on my list. 

In my songwriting class, I would have my students read, listen to,critique and write in the style of the masters -- Robert Johnson, Ira Gershwin, Chuck Berry, Merle Haggard, etc. One semester I asked the class -- defining a major artist as someone who changes his or her art form, so that everyone after can't help but deal with his influence -- who, if anyone we've studied, would meet that standard. The class was unanimous -- Chuck Berry. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Duemer 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views 
  Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 11:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five


  Any list of influential American poets that dosen't include Muddy Waters is, at best, incomplete.

  jd


  On 1/1/07, James Cervantes < cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote:
    On 1/1/07, Bob Grumman < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Why must there be "ranking"?
    > >
    > > - Jim
    >
    > Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so food, 
    > bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore
    > rankings and read every everything.
    >

    So how would you rank Whitman, Longfellow, Pound, Cummings, Williams
    in respect to each other? 

    -- Jim
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
    ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning 
    ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
    ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
    _______________________________________________ 
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 




  -- 
  Joseph Duemer
  Professor of Humanities
  Clarkson University
  [sharpsand.net] 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  1 12:42:34 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:42:34 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] More signs of Seidel's stock rising?...
Message-ID: <c44.b407767.32caa20a@aol.com>

in Jan/Feb 2007 issue of Poets & Writers  Magazine...   

The Art of Reading Frederick Seidel
Poetry Without Its Poet
By John  Freeman   
 
John Freeman looks at the work of the intensely private Frederick Seidel,  
whose refusal to make public appearances allows his poems to stand on their  own.


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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  1 12:52:19 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 12:52:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
In-Reply-To: <cde.73617a5.32ca9efe@aol.com>
References: <cde.73617a5.32ca9efe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9A97DA76-042D-4801-868C-5953C84D8AE7@earthlink.net>

Speaking of arts organizations, has anyone noticed that the
Poetry Foundation is currently listed as one of the sponsors
of The News Hour with Jim Lehrer on PBS? I've been getting
my news elsewhere for some time now, but happened to peek
in at The News Hour just a couple evenings ago.

That gives us some idea of where some of that enormous grant
money is going.

Hal

"If you can't stand Byzantine intrigue,
  get out of the cabal."
		--New Yorker cartoon

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org

On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm
> NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD
> $50,000 INDIVIDUAL FELLOWSHIPS
>
>
> A new charitable arts organization called United States Artists  
> (USA) announced last month that it will award annual grants of  
> fifty thousand dollars each to fifty artists from around the  
> country, including poets, fiction writers, and creative nonfiction  
> writers. The USA Fellowships, which will also be offered in the  
> categories of architecture and design, dance, music, theater, and  
> visual arts, are given to encourage recipients ?to test new ideas  
> and applications in their work? or to pursue their art full-time.  
> The first winners?chosen from a group of more than three hundred  
> artists at all stages of their careers, nominated by a group of a  
> hundred and fifty arts leaders?will be announced at a ceremony in  
> New York City on December 4.
>
> The formation of USA, whose mission is ?to nurture, support, and  
> strengthen the work of America?s finest living artists,? was  
> inspired by a 2003 Urban Institute study titled ?Investing in  
> Creativity: A Study of the Support Structures for U.S. Artists.?  
> The founding donors, who contributed an initial $20 million in  
> funding, include the Ford, Prudential, Rasmuson, and Rockefeller  
> charitable foundations. Additional financial commitments from other  
> individuals and organizations, such as Agnes Gund, Eli and Edythe  
> Broad, the Todd Simon Foundation, and the Target chain of stores,  
> will ensure that the fellowships will be awarded in future years.
>
> For more information about USA, visit the Web site.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  1 13:06:11 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:06:11 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
Message-ID: <caf.7809d3b.32caa793@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/1/2007 12:52:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
halvard at earthlink.net writes:

Speaking  of arts organizations, has anyone noticed that the  
Poetry Foundation is currently listed as one of the sponsors
of The News Hour with Jim Lehrer on PBS? I've been getting
my news elsewhere for some time now, but happened to peek
in at The News Hour just a couple evenings ago.


That gives us some idea of where some of that enormous grant
money is going.



Does THE NEWS HOUR still feature an occasional poetry segment
featuring Robert Pinsky? Perhaps this org is underwriting only  that feature?
Perhaps taking heed of Pound's "Literature is the news that stays  news."
Finnegan
 
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan  1 13:14:52 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:14:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com><00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com><004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com><005801c72dbf$ed36e630$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0701010858m3bb5f40gb8e720c67329eced@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c72dd0$bcd658c0$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> In terms of influence or quality?

I think of ranking as of quality.  Anyway, yes, Stevens and Roethke with 
Cummings.

> I'm assuming your list is best to
> works, which puts Stevens and Roethke in good company. I've never
> really "gotten" Stevens, myself. I keep returning, figuring eventually
> it'll connect with me somehow...
>
> c

I thought he was effete for the longest time but really connected with a 
couple of his short pieces, and the rest followed.

--Bob 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan  1 13:17:15 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:17:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
References: <cde.73617a5.32ca9efe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c72dd1$12cc6b70$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Gosh, what's wrong with me?  My impulse is to want to go bomb these shits.  "America's finest living artists."  I bet--without so much as visiting their website.  Gotta start the new year right.

--Bob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:29 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 


  http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm
  NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
  $50,000 INDIVIDUAL FELLOWSHIPS 
   

  A new charitable arts organization called United States Artists (USA) announced last month that it will award annual grants of fifty thousand dollars each to fifty artists from around the country, including poets, fiction writers, and creative nonfiction writers. The USA Fellowships, which will also be offered in the categories of architecture and design, dance, music, theater, and visual arts, are given to encourage recipients ?to test new ideas and applications in their work? or to pursue their art full-time. The first winners?chosen from a group of more than three hundred artists at all stages of their careers, nominated by a group of a hundred and fifty arts leaders?will be announced at a ceremony in New York City on December 4.

  The formation of USA, whose mission is ?to nurture, support, and strengthen the work of America?s finest living artists,? was inspired by a 2003 Urban Institute study titled ?Investing in Creativity: A Study of the Support Structures for U.S. Artists.? The founding donors, who contributed an initial $20 million in funding, include the Ford, Prudential, Rasmuson, and Rockefeller charitable foundations. Additional financial commitments from other individuals and organizations, such as Agnes Gund, Eli and Edythe Broad, the Todd Simon Foundation, and the Target chain of stores, will ensure that the fellowships will be awarded in future years.

  For more information about USA, visit the Web site.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Jan  1 13:43:13 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:43:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
References: <cde.73617a5.32ca9efe@aol.com>
	<002f01c72dd1$12cc6b70$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00b901c72dd4$b1d65980$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Yeah, if they're artists you don't like, certainly the money would be better spent on a new weapons system.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 


  Gosh, what's wrong with me?  My impulse is to want to go bomb these shits.  "America's finest living artists."  I bet--without so much as visiting their website.  Gotta start the new year right.

  --Bob
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: JforJames at aol.com 
    To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
    Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 12:29 PM
    Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 


    http://www.unitedstatesartists.org/Public/Home/index.cfm
    NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
    $50,000 INDIVIDUAL FELLOWSHIPS 
     

    A new charitable arts organization called United States Artists (USA) announced last month that it will award annual grants of fifty thousand dollars each to fifty artists from around the country, including poets, fiction writers, and creative nonfiction writers. The USA Fellowships, which will also be offered in the categories of architecture and design, dance, music, theater, and visual arts, are given to encourage recipients ?to test new ideas and applications in their work? or to pursue their art full-time. The first winners?chosen from a group of more than three hundred artists at all stages of their careers, nominated by a group of a hundred and fifty arts leaders?will be announced at a ceremony in New York City on December 4.

    The formation of USA, whose mission is ?to nurture, support, and strengthen the work of America?s finest living artists,? was inspired by a 2003 Urban Institute study titled ?Investing in Creativity: A Study of the Support Structures for U.S. Artists.? The founding donors, who contributed an initial $20 million in funding, include the Ford, Prudential, Rasmuson, and Rockefeller charitable foundations. Additional financial commitments from other individuals and organizations, such as Agnes Gund, Eli and Edythe Broad, the Todd Simon Foundation, and the Target chain of stores, will ensure that the fellowships will be awarded in future years.

    For more information about USA, visit the Web site.





----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  1 13:45:07 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:45:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
In-Reply-To: <caf.7809d3b.32caa793@aol.com>
References: <caf.7809d3b.32caa793@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F70F0E93-F31C-4D91-BF29-B68F8AEB53A7@earthlink.net>

Seems so, Finnegan. Why didn't I think of that?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_coverage/entertainment/poetry/ 
about.html

Hal

"Generally speaking anybody is more
interesting doing nothing than doing
anything."
                   --Gertrude Stein

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org





On Jan 1, 2007, at 1:06 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/1/2007 12:52:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
> halvard at earthlink.net writes:
> Speaking of arts organizations, has anyone noticed that the
> Poetry Foundation is currently listed as one of the sponsors
> of The News Hour with Jim Lehrer on PBS? I've been getting
> my news elsewhere for some time now, but happened to peek
> in at The News Hour just a couple evenings ago.
>
> That gives us some idea of where some of that enormous grant
> money is going.
> Does THE NEWS HOUR still feature an occasional poetry segment
> featuring Robert Pinsky? Perhaps this org is underwriting only that  
> feature?
> Perhaps taking heed of Pound's "Literature is the news that stays  
> news."
> Finnegan
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan  1 14:31:08 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:31:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] NEW ARTS ORGANIZATION TO AWARD 
References: <cde.73617a5.32ca9efe@aol.com><002f01c72dd1$12cc6b70$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00b901c72dd4$b1d65980$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <005e01c72ddb$647eae60$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  Yeah, if they're artists you don't like, certainly the money would be better spent on a new weapons system.

  Well, if this organization spent its money on weapons-designers as bad at what they do as the artists who'll be getting it would certainly win the approval of the people who don't think we need to defend our country from anyone.  What I'd prefer, however, is that it spent its money on good artists. 

  --Bob G.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan  1 15:50:43 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:50:43 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth
Message-ID: <002401c72de6$8173dad0$dbdf3652@ANNY>

"Special thanks to a few of you (and a few others, I know, forgotten, but I am compelled to continue):

Bob Grumman for being a pain in my side, a provocateur agonistes, the weirdest blogger in the world, and the best collaborator a poet could ask for. I'll be visiting Bob this April-and am informing him through this note and, as his self-appointed literary executor-I'll be pushing him to do something with his papers before they devolve into cockroach bedding in the southern Florida humidity."


says Geof Huth in A Year and a Day, there are also a few words for me, :-):
http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2006/12/year-and-day.html

best,
Anny


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 17:36:14 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:36:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <e8b111d70701010814p406a5cf2qe1a62277940ce07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
	<00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010732t1e6e7e15p7e144b4ec0f364d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8b111d70701010814p406a5cf2qe1a62277940ce07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701011436p18025af6mffb187c7d7be7073@mail.gmail.com>

Hear, hear!

Jeff

On 1/1/07, Joseph Duemer <duemer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Any list of influential American poets that dosen't include Muddy Waters is,
> at best, incomplete.
>
> jd
>
>
> On 1/1/07, James Cervantes < cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/1/07, Bob Grumman < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Why must there be "ranking"?
> > > >
> > > > - Jim
> > >
> > > Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so
> food,
> > > bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore
> > > rankings and read every everything.
> > >
> >
> > So how would you rank Whitman, Longfellow, Pound, Cummings, Williams
> > in respect to each other?
> >
> > -- Jim
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> > ~
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Duemer
> Professor of Humanities
> Clarkson University
> [sharpsand.net]
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com



From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 18:41:14 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:41:14 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
	<00b901c72d41$9a230920$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00e401c72d48$2e86f440$57b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<648208b60701010621k1587048r3d28f46d5f74e9f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<004601c72db9$868fd000$88b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <fde503480701011541o6e0ddf7bue6ea6b136d642f44@mail.gmail.com>

Notice list stops in 63 stop feels like a retrograde step stop who the
hell references eliot stop wasn't he a big queen stop or did he just
suck up to a queen stop nobody reads whitman stop they just quote the
first three lines stop williams wrote short poems stop plath was a
nobody rescued by suicide and a stupid husband stop at least he
doesn't mention pound stop that would be the kiss of death stop wtf
has this list-maker got against the academy? stop the finest, ah, um,
something stop doesn't seem to realise that um none of these pissants
went to teh academy and thats being generous stop will stop talking
like a telegram stop stop making lists stop stop stop they're stoopid

Rankings for the following:

Whiman: gay
Longfellow: genocide apologist
Pound: fascist
Cummings: couldn't find his capslock. Maybe too much ranking?
Williams: racist quack
Muddy Waters: fuck off, you're taking the piss right?

Sorry, I thought you said "ranking". We have to catch taxis, right?

Yours sincerely
Yuri Gagarin

On 1/1/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Why must there be "ranking"?
> >
> > - Jim
>
> Same reason there's ranking of food, say.  There's good food, so-so food,
> bad food, poison, and so on.  But if you have time, go ahead--ignore
> rankings and read every everything.
>
> --Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


--


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan  1 21:19:26 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:19:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth
References: <002401c72de6$8173dad0$dbdf3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <001001c72e14$6e117550$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  "Special thanks to a few of you (and a few others, I know, forgotten, but I am compelled to continue):

  Bob Grumman for being a pain in my side, a provocateur agonistes, the weirdest blogger in the world, and the best collaborator a poet could ask for. I'll be visiting Bob this April-and am informing him through this note and, as his self-appointed literary executor-I'll be pushing him to do something with his papers before they devolve into cockroach bedding in the southern Florida humidity."


  says Geof Huth in A Year and a Day, there are also a few words for me, :-):
  http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2006/12/year-and-day.html

  best,
  Anny

  He said me before you, he said me before you, he said me before you!  Haha to you, Anny!

  --Bob G

  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan  2 02:39:12 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 08:39:12 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth
References: <002401c72de6$8173dad0$dbdf3652@ANNY>
	<001001c72e14$6e117550$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <003701c72e41$18e4d3b0$73aa3452@ANNY>

You're a pain in the neck Gumman! 
Haha... :-)


  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 3:19 AM



   
    "Special thanks to a few of you (and a few others, I know, forgotten, but I am compelled to continue):

    Bob Grumman for being a pain in my side, a provocateur agonistes, the weirdest blogger in the world, and the best collaborator a poet could ask for. I'll be visiting Bob this April-and am informing him through this note and, as his self-appointed literary executor-I'll be pushing him to do something with his papers before they devolve into cockroach bedding in the southern Florida humidity."


    says Geof Huth in A Year and a Day, there are also a few words for me, :-):
    http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2006/12/year-and-day.html

    best,
    Anny

    He said me before you, he said me before you, he said me before you!  Haha to you, Anny!

    --Bob G

    Anny Ballardini
    http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
    http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
    http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
    I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
    Friedrich Nietzsche 



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan  2 07:40:07 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 07:40:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Geof Huth
References: <002401c72de6$8173dad0$dbdf3652@ANNY><001001c72e14$6e117550$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<003701c72e41$18e4d3b0$73aa3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <001401c72e6b$25369160$35b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

You're a pain in the neck Gumman! 

Haha... :-)

Weird how many people say that about me. . . .

--Bob
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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 08:11:58 2007
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 05:11:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog '07
Message-ID: <458126.23471.qm@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/


RECENT POSTS

A look at last week?s MLA

?Blog better, blog less?

Remember poets who passed on
in 2006

?A Theory?s Evolution? by Charles Bernstein

A Scanner Darkly
attempts the impossible,
a movie that?s faithful
to Philip K. Dick

5 little-known things about me

An appeal for Paula Gunn Allen

What makes for a decent bookstore
(4 criteria)

Rob Halpern?s
Disaster Suite

Who watches the Watchmen
and who watches the writing?

Heckuva job, Gracie!

A history of cut-ups

How tell a story
in an American movie?
Dying with The Dying Gaul

The poetics of Alice Notley

John Ashbery deserves
the National Medal of the Arts

Of Jena Osman, Rachel Blau DuPlessis
and writing networks, as such

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/



From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 12:52:48 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:52:48 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
Message-ID: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>

_http://poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0107/comment_178919.html_ 
(http://poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0107/comment_178919.html) 
 
Someone took a pot shot at Christopher Wiman recently, but I have
to say reading Poetry magazine has once again become a pleasure
under his editorship. He's doing some of the things that made  Countermeasures
(a short lived journal out of New Mexico) so fun to read...like creating a 
panel discussion around a particularly knotty question.
 
So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
not?
 
Finnegan
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From duemer at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 12:56:16 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:56:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
References: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701020956j2775f4b3he651826dc5863490@mail.gmail.com>

It's social function, apparently, is to get us to ask if it has a social
function.


On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  http://poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0107/comment_178919.html
>
> Someone took a pot shot at Christopher Wiman recently, but I have
> to say reading Poetry magazine has once again become a pleasure
> under his editorship. He's doing some of the things that made
> Countermeasures
> (a short lived journal out of New Mexico) so fun to read...like creating a
>
> panel discussion around a particularly knotty question.
>
> So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> not?
>
> Finnegan
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan  2 13:04:54 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:04:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
References: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00f601c72e98$82bd76f0$35b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Does politics have an aesthetic function?

I was the one who shot at Wiman, although Roger Daly apparently did, too.  I found it risible that so retrograde a mediocrity as Wiman could be called an expert in poetry.  I like the idea of panel discussions on knotty questions but don't see what good they are if only stasguards are invited to participate in them.

--Bob G.
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From jfq at myuw.net  Tue Jan  2 13:16:37 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:16:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <d09.6128864.32c9b399@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0701021016370.17893@hymn07.u.washington.edu>


why am i not surprised that wiman doesn't get williams.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> The Atlantic Monthly | December 2006
>
> An Expert?s Opinion
>
> Influential Poets
> by Christian Wiman
> .....
>
> WALT WHITMAN
> (1819?1892)
> The most influential American poet, beyond  question. He was our first
> memoirist, our earliest Oprah (himself his only  guest), our great prophet of the
> self. You can lay a lot of dreck at Whitman?s  door, but his spirit is so large,
> his voice still so vital, that it?s impossible  to think of him as anything
> but a powerful positive influence. No poet ever  worked harder to project
> himself into the future, and no poet has ever been more  successful. Many
> quintessentially American qualities?individualism, optimism,  pluralism?find their
> best expression in Whitman?s poetry, and even those of us  who have never read
> him are influenced by him.
>
> T. S. ELIOT
> (1888?1965)
> He wrenched poetry into the twentieth century  and gave an entire era a
> language for its anxieties. His influence is on the  wane among poets, or at least
> in a lull, which is unfortunate. Eliot?s work  remains a great model for how
> to root real innovation and experimentation in a  living tradition. It is also
> a reminder of the enduring pleasures of sound in  poetry. But Eliot can?t
> vanish; his work, like Whitman?s, has entered the  culture. We read him even when
> we don?t.
>
> WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS
> (1883?1963)
> Williams thought Eliot was a  disaster for American poetry and publicly
> attacked ?The Waste Land.? He lost  that battle but won the war. The next time you
> read a contemporary poem that is  dominated by simple visual description,
> devoid of rhyme or meter, and  suspiciously close to a basic prose paragraph
> broken up into lines, you are  tasting the fruit of Williams?s influence. A good
> poet (though not a great one),  Williams isn?t responsible for the blight of
> bad poetry that has followed  him?but it?s hard not to blame him just a little.
>
> WALLACE STEVENS
> (1879?1955)
> As poetry retreated into the academy,  Stevens emerged as the dominant figure
> of the twentieth century. His influence  is at once very deep and very
> narrow. Scholars and poets know his work inside  out, but many educated people haven?
> t even heard of him. The poems are dense,  highly wrought, and full of
> otherworldly beauty?a necessary corrective to the  Williams-esque plain style. But
> his work also has a hothouse,  overintellectualized quality, which has endeared
> it to the academy and which  contemporary poets would do well to purge.
>
> SYLVIA PLATH
> (1932?1963)
> Plath was Robert Lowell?s student. Her  achievement, though astonishing for
> someone who died at thirty, is not  comparable to his, but for the past fifty
> years her work has had more influence.  She?s been a feminist icon, the high
> priestess of Confessionalism, and the  required graveside reading for millions
> of undergraduate existentialists. Her  overall influence has been terrible,
> promoting a kind of narcissistic despair  that persists in many poems, novels,
> and movies today. That her work has  survived all this ancillary frenzy, that it
> remains strange and original and  troubling, is a testament to how good it
> really is.
>
>
> The URL for this page is
> _http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200612/influentials-poets_ (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200612/influentials-poets) .
>
>





From skip at louisiana.edu  Tue Jan  2 13:53:59 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:53:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0701021016370.17893@hymn07.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <012201c72e9f$62e87df0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

And how does one substitute Plath for Pound unless one thinks only of
contemporary quantity? (But even then . . .)

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jfq at myuw.net
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:17 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five


why am i not surprised that wiman doesn't get williams.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> The Atlantic Monthly | December 2006
>
> An Expert's Opinion
>
> Influential Poets
> by Christian Wiman
> .....
>
> WALT WHITMAN
> (1819-1892)
> The most influential American poet, beyond  question. He was our first
> memoirist, our earliest Oprah (himself his only  guest), our great prophet
of the
> self. You can lay a lot of dreck at Whitman's  door, but his spirit is so
large,
> his voice still so vital, that it's impossible  to think of him as
anything
> but a powerful positive influence. No poet ever  worked harder to project
> himself into the future, and no poet has ever been more  successful. Many
> quintessentially American qualities-individualism, optimism,
pluralism-find their
> best expression in Whitman's poetry, and even those of us  who have never
read
> him are influenced by him.
>
> T. S. ELIOT
> (1888-1965)
> He wrenched poetry into the twentieth century  and gave an entire era a
> language for its anxieties. His influence is on the  wane among poets, or
at least
> in a lull, which is unfortunate. Eliot's work  remains a great model for
how
> to root real innovation and experimentation in a  living tradition. It is
also
> a reminder of the enduring pleasures of sound in  poetry. But Eliot can't
> vanish; his work, like Whitman's, has entered the  culture. We read him
even when
> we don't.
>
> WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS
> (1883-1963)
> Williams thought Eliot was a  disaster for American poetry and publicly
> attacked "The Waste Land." He lost  that battle but won the war. The next
time you
> read a contemporary poem that is  dominated by simple visual description,
> devoid of rhyme or meter, and  suspiciously close to a basic prose
paragraph
> broken up into lines, you are  tasting the fruit of Williams's influence.
A good
> poet (though not a great one),  Williams isn't responsible for the blight
of
> bad poetry that has followed  him-but it's hard not to blame him just a
little.
>
> WALLACE STEVENS
> (1879-1955)
> As poetry retreated into the academy,  Stevens emerged as the dominant
figure
> of the twentieth century. His influence  is at once very deep and very
> narrow. Scholars and poets know his work inside  out, but many educated
people haven'
> t even heard of him. The poems are dense,  highly wrought, and full of
> otherworldly beauty-a necessary corrective to the  Williams-esque plain
style. But
> his work also has a hothouse,  overintellectualized quality, which has
endeared
> it to the academy and which  contemporary poets would do well to purge.
>
> SYLVIA PLATH
> (1932-1963)
> Plath was Robert Lowell's student. Her  achievement, though astonishing
for
> someone who died at thirty, is not  comparable to his, but for the past
fifty
> years her work has had more influence.  She's been a feminist icon, the
high
> priestess of Confessionalism, and the  required graveside reading for
millions
> of undergraduate existentialists. Her  overall influence has been
terrible,
> promoting a kind of narcissistic despair  that persists in many poems,
novels,
> and movies today. That her work has  survived all this ancillary frenzy,
that it
> remains strange and original and  troubling, is a testament to how good it
> really is.
>
>
> The URL for this page is
> _http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200612/influentials-poets_
(http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200612/influentials-poets) .
>
>



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From duemer at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 14:06:52 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 14:06:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <00f601c72e98$82bd76f0$35b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
	<00f601c72e98$82bd76f0$35b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701021106r837e7eepad47b5864cba0f75@mail.gmail.com>

Wimin's panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A group of
eminences whose conclusions are known before they begin. With neither side
of the debate, ultimately paying any attention to them. Political Kabuki at
Poetry Magazine.


On 1/2/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>  Does politics have an aesthetic function?
>
> I was the one who shot at Wiman, although Roger Daly apparently did, too.
> I found it risible that so retrograde a mediocrity as Wiman could be called
> an expert in poetry.  I like the idea of panel discussions on knotty
> questions but don't see what good they are if only stasguards are invited to
> participate in them.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Tue Jan  2 14:23:27 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:23:27 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked
In-Reply-To: <005701c72cf8$65b830f0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <012801c72ea3$806fb560$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Unable to reply from home, where I've been for several days, but I wondered
if that's the title of an essay or the phrasing (borrowed from Levi
Strauss's essay by that title) of an emphasis he reiterated in an essay on a
"raw" poet or tendency in modern and contemporary poetry.

 

It doesn't appear in his Selected Prose under that title.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:26 AM
To: NewPo
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked

 

I posted this a few days ago, but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle of
Cummings and Raven. I'm looking for Lowell's essay/speech on "The Raw and
the Cooked." Surely it's been collected somewhere?

 

 

Tad Richards
www.opus40.org
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/

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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 14:27:13 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 14:27:13 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
Message-ID: <c99.6dee128.32cc0c11@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/2/2007 1:54:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
skip at louisiana.edu writes:

And how  does one substitute Plath for Pound unless one thinks only of
contemporary  quantity? (But even then . . .)



If we're talking 'influential', then I'd drop Eliot from the list in  favor
of Frank O'Hara. Influence I measure numerically and there are  legions
more writing in the New York School style than in the Eliotesque.
 
Pound was all over the place...what Pound has had the most  influence,
Pound of imagism, Pound of personae, Pound of the Cantos?..the latter
being itself all-over-the-place...and can such a 'poetic  sequence' really be 
a model other than one of marvelous, quixotic ambition?
 
Almost everyone has read and admires Emily Dickinson...but does  anyone
really claim to be in the line of Dickinson? She's sui generis
to spawn a followers...what we get from her is something Raven may
have been claiming: License. The right to be wrong about everything that 
is ordinarily taught as 'the right way', including punctuation  and grammar. 
I hasten to add that I don't endorse a fear of reading far &  wide. The fear 
of influence through reading is an admission of profound  weakness...one's
pen is not a blown leaf. Recently back from Germany, I  encountered
a quote about Albrecht Durer in which it was said that when  Durer
referred to his art he spoke of 'his hand'. So it's the kind of  thing that
won't be easily tethered to someone else's puppet strings.
 
I think Wiman's got the list about right, if influence is the measure, and  
one
must pick only five.
 
Finnegan
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From SLIDINGSCA at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 14:34:40 2007
From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com (SLIDINGSCA at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 14:34:40 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] interview
Message-ID: <bdd.982f8fd.32cc0dd0@aol.com>

FYI, I am interviewed in the current issue of cervenabarvapress.com.
 
Happy New Year,
L
 
Larissa  Shmailo_  slidingsca at aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca at aol.com) 
http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
Listen to  The No-Net World
at http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
and on  iTunes
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 14:48:42 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 14:48:42 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked
Message-ID: <c8a.4b24698.32cc111a@aol.com>

_http://www.nationalbook.org/nbaacceptspeech_rlowell.html_ 
(http://www.nationalbook.org/nbaacceptspeech_rlowell.html) 
 
Lowell's National Book Award acceptance speech  1960...
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan  2 14:58:53 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 14:58:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <c99.6dee128.32cc0c11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <015d01c72ea8$6ebaae60$35b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

How about Eddie Guest?  More people write his kind of doggerel than write any other kind of poetry.

Eliot and Pound were mainly responsible for jump-cut poetry, and a lot of people do that.  And how do you measure Eliot, Pound and WIlliams's influence on O'Hara?

Interesting that Ginsberg is overlooked.  He expanded the vocabulary, which I consider important.

My bottom line is that it's too difficult a topic to answer.  To treat properly, it seems to me one has to isolate kinds of influence, then find out the real sources, and distinguish the different kinds of influences manifesting themselves--for instance, in number of those influenced, in size of cultural significance of the work of those influenced, etc.

--Bob G.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 2:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five


  In a message dated 1/2/2007 1:54:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, skip at louisiana.edu writes:
    And how does one substitute Plath for Pound unless one thinks only of
    contemporary quantity? (But even then . . .)

  If we're talking 'influential', then I'd drop Eliot from the list in favor
  of Frank O'Hara. Influence I measure numerically and there are legions
  more writing in the New York School style than in the Eliotesque.

  Pound was all over the place...what Pound has had the most influence,
  Pound of imagism, Pound of personae, Pound of the Cantos?..the latter
  being itself all-over-the-place...and can such a 'poetic sequence' really be 
  a model other than one of marvelous, quixotic ambition?

  Almost everyone has read and admires Emily Dickinson...but does anyone
  really claim to be in the line of Dickinson? She's sui generis
  to spawn a followers...what we get from her is something Raven may
  have been claiming: License. The right to be wrong about everything that 
  is ordinarily taught as 'the right way', including punctuation and grammar. 
  I hasten to add that I don't endorse a fear of reading far & wide. The fear 
  of influence through reading is an admission of profound weakness...one's
  pen is not a blown leaf. Recently back from Germany, I encountered
  a quote about Albrecht Durer in which it was said that when Durer
  referred to his art he spoke of 'his hand'. So it's the kind of thing that
  won't be easily tethered to someone else's puppet strings.

  I think Wiman's got the list about right, if influence is the measure, and one
  must pick only five.

  Finnegan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan  2 15:13:16 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:13:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <c99.6dee128.32cc0c11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <014601c72eaa$7049ef00$e6a83852@ANNY>

Re Duerer and "his hand"

hand is used in a similar way in Italian: la mano del pittore (the painter's hand), ha una buona mano (s/he has a good hand - it means he can paint well). I looked it up on the Leo German-English dictionary, and I found this:
von Hand fertigen - to craft
letze Hand an etw. legen (dare l'ultima mano) - to add the finishing touched to

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 8:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five


  In a message dated 1/2/2007 1:54:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, skip at louisiana.edu writes:
    And how does one substitute Plath for Pound unless one thinks only of
    contemporary quantity? (But even then . . .)

  If we're talking 'influential', then I'd drop Eliot from the list in favor
  of Frank O'Hara. Influence I measure numerically and there are legions
  more writing in the New York School style than in the Eliotesque.

  Pound was all over the place...what Pound has had the most influence,
  Pound of imagism, Pound of personae, Pound of the Cantos?..the latter
  being itself all-over-the-place...and can such a 'poetic sequence' really be 
  a model other than one of marvelous, quixotic ambition?

  Almost everyone has read and admires Emily Dickinson...but does anyone
  really claim to be in the line of Dickinson? She's sui generis
  to spawn a followers...what we get from her is something Raven may
  have been claiming: License. The right to be wrong about everything that 
  is ordinarily taught as 'the right way', including punctuation and grammar. 
  I hasten to add that I don't endorse a fear of reading far & wide. The fear 
  of influence through reading is an admission of profound weakness...one's
  pen is not a blown leaf. Recently back from Germany, I encountered
  a quote about Albrecht Durer in which it was said that when Durer
  referred to his art he spoke of 'his hand'. So it's the kind of thing that
  won't be easily tethered to someone else's puppet strings.

  I think Wiman's got the list about right, if influence is the measure, and one
  must pick only five.

  Finnegan
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Tue Jan  2 17:45:57 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:45:57 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked
Message-ID: <46f.27416791.32cc3aa5@cs.com>

In a message dated 1/2/2007 1:23:14 PM Central Standard Time, 
skip at louisiana.edu writes: 
>  
> 
>  I posted this a few days ago, but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle of 
> Cummings and Raven. I'm looking for Lowell's essay/speech on "The Raw and 
> the Cooked." Surely it's been collected somewhere?
> 
>  
>  
> 
>  
> 
Wasn't it Phillip Rahv who wrote this?  Or maybe it was Rahv who called them 
"palefaces" and "redskins."
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Tue Jan  2 17:50:34 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:50:34 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked
Message-ID: <4ab.24a1b72f.32cc3bba@cs.com>

http://www.enotes.com/contemporary-literary-criticism/rahv-philip

It was Lowell obviously.  But Rahv said much the same thing.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 17:54:39 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:54:39 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
Message-ID: <c9d.710e664.32cc3caf@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:57:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

How about Eddie Guest?  More people write his kind of doggerel than  write 
any other kind of poetry.
 
Eliot and Pound were mainly responsible for jump-cut poetry, and a lot of  
people do that.  And how do you measure Eliot, Pound and WIlliams's  influence 
on O'Hara?
 
Interesting that Ginsberg is overlooked.  He expanded the  vocabulary, which 
I consider important.
 
My bottom line is that it's too difficult a topic to answer.  To  treat 
properly, it seems to me one has to isolate kinds of influence, then  find out the 
real sources, and distinguish the different kinds  of influences manifesting 
themselves--for instance, in number of those  influenced, in size of cultural 
significance of the work of those influenced,  etc.
 
--Bob G.

 
Bob, I'm not getting too worked up over this because there is no  right 
answer 
in this little name game...

 
I'm thinking Wiman's is putting Ginsberg under the Whitman  influenced 
line...where he sort of fits, 
if you file down his more ecstatic and sexually graphic and  p
olitically-engaged rough edges. Certainly Ginsberg spoke a lot about  Whitman as a forerunner.
 
There should perhaps be true formalist on the list...like a Frost or a  
Wilbur. I don't know who Eddie 
G is, I'm afraid. But I think the you have assume Wiman's talking about  
influence on poets who are
writing at a little higher level than doggerel.
 
The jump cut may have been an influence of that ubiquitous, early  modernist 
poet named 
Cinema.
 
Finnegan 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 18:13:29 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:13:29 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
Message-ID: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:07:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
duemer at gmail.com writes:

Wimin's  panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A group of 
eminences whose  conclusions are known before they begin. With neither side of the 
debate,  ultimately paying any attention to them. Political Kabuki at Poetry 
Magazine.  



To quibble, Joe, I wouldn't call any of that crew an 'eminence'. In the big  
circulation poetry
mags of which there are only two, the APR rag is looking more  tired these 
days. Poetry
more full of spit and vinegar than I can ever remember it. Either it was  
Wiman's doing or the
Lilly heiress' cash...but something's changed in Chicago other than the  
address of 
their offices.
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 18:46:56 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:46:56 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] English Speaks Up For Itself
Message-ID: <bd9.c48699d.32cc48f0@aol.com>

 
English Speaks Up For  Itself 
They say you are faint of  heart.  
So now they want to make you  ?official?. 
I?m not enamored by your  regard. 
I?ve eaten alligators and jaguars and the  armadillo. 
I?ve subsumed tsunamis and typhoons,   
tangoed with  tornados, 
mixmastered  maelstroms. 
I?ll tattoo your tongue.   
I?ll toboggan down the moguls of your  spine. 
Guerilla armada with a fully-loaded portmanteau,   
I?m a  kami-kazi run amuck. You?ll 
wriggle like fresh sushi, turn yellow as  saffron 
and lose your  chowder. 
I know the algebra and the exploded  anatomy. 
Anonymous, I can stare down the unholy zero,   
or make a black hole  flinch. 
Juggernaut rising out of the  jungle, 
I?ll hamburger your holy  cows. 
If you had the chutzpah  to come in, 
you better be ready to schlep that body  
right  out the door, 
before I dance a blitzkrieg ballet  
on  the ruined cupola  
of your cranium. I  say vamoose  
or  come and get some!
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Tue Jan  2 18:53:30 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:53:30 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] English Speaks Up For Itself
Message-ID: <c80.aa2e7f2.32cc4a7a@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/2/2007 3:47:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

Anonymous, I can stare down the unholy zero,   
or make a black hole  flinch.


Who wrote this?  Its almost exotic. Like the lurker you would  fantasize 
about but would never want to meet, lol. I loved this poem.  ~Raven
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan  2 18:58:49 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:58:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five
References: <c9d.710e664.32cc3caf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01ad01c72ec9$f4b7d120$35b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 5:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Poets, The Five


  In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:57:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    How about Eddie Guest?  More people write his kind of doggerel than write any other kind of poetry.

    Eliot and Pound were mainly responsible for jump-cut poetry, and a lot of people do that.  And how do you measure Eliot, Pound and WIlliams's influence on O'Hara?

    Interesting that Ginsberg is overlooked.  He expanded the vocabulary, which I consider important.

    My bottom line is that it's too difficult a topic to answer.  To treat properly, it seems to me one has to isolate kinds of influence, then find out the real sources, and distinguish the different kinds of influences manifesting themselves--for instance, in number of those influenced, in size of cultural significance of the work of those influenced, etc.

    --Bob G.

  Bob, I'm not getting too worked up over this because there is no right answer 
  in this little name game...

  Nor I.

  I'm thinking Wiman's is putting Ginsberg under the Whitman influenced line...where he sort of fits, 
  if you file down his more ecstatic and sexually graphic and politically-engaged rough edges. Certainly Ginsberg spoke a lot about Whitman as a forerunner.

  He belongs there BUT was responsible, as I said, for enlarging the language for poetry.  I say that's as important as opening poetry to new subject matter.


  There should perhaps be true formalist on the list...like a Frost or a Wilbur.

  Sure, as long as you make sure no one gets on it who influenced poetries that haven't made the Norton.  But for me the claim that Frost or Wilbur have had some kind of influence is like the claim that Andrew Wyeth has influenced a lot of painters.


  I don't know who Eddie 
  G is, I'm afraid. But I think the you have assume Wiman's talking about influence on poets who are
  writing at a little higher level than doggerel.

  I was merely responding to the idea of numbers of followers as indication of influence.  But you get out of it with subjectivity.  I could say, similarly, that Whitman had no influence except on writers of the free verse equivalent of doggerel.

  The jump cut may have been an influence of that ubiquitous, early modernist poet named 
  Cinema.

  Finnegan 

  Maybe.  I truly don't know.  But Ashbery is called by many out best poet, and he made his reputation with it., and hasn't been the only one.  Before Wasteland, no jump-cut poetry.  After it, lots.  Before Frost, rhymed metric poetry.  After him, lots.

  --Bob G.
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From duemer at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 19:55:31 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 19:55:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>
References: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701021655q6a250401l760b5b83cea9b631@mail.gmail.com>

Well, Finnegan, over the years APR has published quite a ferw of my poems &
Poetry has published exactly zero, so you could say I'm biased. I disagree
about APR, though.

jd

On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:07:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> duemer at gmail.com writes:
>
> Wimin's panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A group of
> eminences whose conclusions are known before they begin. With neither side
> of the debate, ultimately paying any attention to them. Political Kabuki at
> Poetry Magazine.
>
>
>  To quibble, Joe, I wouldn't call any of that crew an 'eminence'. In the
> big circulation poetry
> mags of which there are only two, the APR rag is looking more tired these
> days. Poetry
> more full of spit and vinegar than I can ever remember it. Either it was
> Wiman's doing or the
> Lilly heiress' cash...but something's changed in Chicago other than the
> address of
> their offices.
> Finnegan
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From tad at opus40.org  Tue Jan  2 20:22:53 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:22:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
References: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>
	<e8b111d70701021655q6a250401l760b5b83cea9b631@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c72ed5$b17fe850$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

In my lost youth, my very first publication was in Poetry. None since then though.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Duemer 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?


  Well, Finnegan, over the years APR has published quite a ferw of my poems & Poetry has published exactly zero, so you could say I'm biased. I disagree about APR, though. 

  jd


  On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
    In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:07:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, duemer at gmail.com writes:
      Wimin's panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A group of eminences whose conclusions are known before they begin. With neither side of the debate, ultimately paying any attention to them. Political Kabuki at Poetry Magazine. 
       
    To quibble, Joe, I wouldn't call any of that crew an 'eminence'. In the big circulation poetry
    mags of which there are only two, the APR rag is looking more tired these days. Poetry
    more full of spit and vinegar than I can ever remember it. Either it was Wiman's doing or the
    Lilly heiress' cash...but something's changed in Chicago other than the address of 
    their offices.
    Finnegan

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






  -- 
  Joseph Duemer
  Professor of Humanities
  Clarkson University
  [sharpsand.net ] 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Tue Jan  2 20:26:18 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:26:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked
References: <c8a.4b24698.32cc111a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00a801c72ed6$2bcd1c90$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

That's the one -- thanks. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 2:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Raw and Cooked


  http://www.nationalbook.org/nbaacceptspeech_rlowell.html

  Lowell's National Book Award acceptance speech 1960...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 20:59:21 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:59:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] JforJames, nice
In-Reply-To: <200701022337.l02Nb68X022910@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <158194.3919.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Raven wrote:
I loved this poem.  ~Raven

Me too. Nicely done, James (?).
I'll pipe up to second the in favor of Roethke
pronouncement, also, yes! 
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From duemer at gmail.com  Tue Jan  2 21:52:26 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:52:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <004f01c72ed5$b17fe850$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>
	<e8b111d70701021655q6a250401l760b5b83cea9b631@mail.gmail.com>
	<004f01c72ed5$b17fe850$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701021852u63ea6b7asb7a1ca6162bbeb30@mail.gmail.com>

John Fredrick Nims used to write me nice notes as he rejected my poems.

jd

On 1/2/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>  In my lost youth, my very first publication was in Poetry. None since
> then though.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Joseph Duemer <duemer at gmail.com>
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
>
> Well, Finnegan, over the years APR has published quite a ferw of my poems
> & Poetry has published exactly zero, so you could say I'm biased. I disagree
> about APR, though.
>
> jd
>
> On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >  In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:07:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > duemer at gmail.com writes:
> >
> > Wimin's panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A group of
> > eminences whose conclusions are known before they begin. With neither side
> > of the debate, ultimately paying any attention to them. Political Kabuki at
> > Poetry Magazine.
> >
> >
> >  To quibble, Joe, I wouldn't call any of that crew an 'eminence'. In the
> > big circulation poetry
> > mags of which there are only two, the APR rag is looking more tired
> > these days. Poetry
> > more full of spit and vinegar than I can ever remember it. Either it was
> > Wiman's doing or the
> > Lilly heiress' cash...but something's changed in Chicago other than the
> > address of
> > their offices.
> > Finnegan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Joseph Duemer
> Professor of Humanities
> Clarkson University
> [sharpsand.net ]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From jfq at myuw.net  Tue Jan  2 23:00:29 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:00:29 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <e8b111d70701021655q6a250401l760b5b83cea9b631@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>
	<e8b111d70701021655q6a250401l760b5b83cea9b631@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459B2A5D.2020409@myuw.net>

i'm maybe inordinately proud of the fact that i don't think either publication would consider printing anything of mine. i find both of them skull 
crushingly boring, and as far as i can tell christian wiman and the influx of cash have only managed to make Poetry more irrelevant than it was before.

Joseph Duemer wrote:
> Well, Finnegan, over the years APR has published quite a ferw of my 
> poems & Poetry has published exactly zero, so you could say I'm biased. 
> I disagree about APR, though.
> 
> jd
> 
> On 1/2/07, *JforJames at aol.com <mailto:JforJames at aol.com>* 
> <JforJames at aol.com <mailto:JforJames at aol.com>> wrote:
> 
>     In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:07:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>     duemer at gmail.com <mailto:duemer at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>         Wimin's panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A
>         group of eminences whose conclusions are known before they
>         begin. With neither side of the debate, ultimately paying any
>         attention to them. Political Kabuki at Poetry Magazine.
>          
> 
>     To quibble, Joe, I wouldn't call any of that crew an 'eminence'. In
>     the big circulation poetry
>     mags of which there are only two, the APR rag is looking more tired
>     these days. Poetry
>     more full of spit and vinegar than I can ever remember it. Either it
>     was Wiman's doing or the
>     Lilly heiress' cash...but something's changed in Chicago other than
>     the address of
>     their offices.
>     Finnegan
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joseph Duemer
> Professor of Humanities
> Clarkson University
> [sharpsand.net <http://sharpsand.net>]
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan  3 02:50:23 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:50:23 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] JforJames, nice
References: <158194.3919.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c72f0b$d35669f0$49d93052@ANNY>


Agreeing with both,
Anny


From: "Alexander Dickow" <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:59 AM


> Raven wrote:
> I loved this poem.  ~Raven
>
> Me too. Nicely done, James (?).
> I'll pipe up to second the in favor of Roethke
> pronouncement, also, yes!
> Alex
>
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>
>  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan  3 03:47:13 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:47:13 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Melville
Message-ID: <006d01c72f13$c3fc89a0$49d93052@ANNY>

"A whale ship was my Yale College and my Harvard."
from today's the Writer's Almanac

with a Happy Birthday to Melville,


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan  3 03:56:51 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:56:51 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Melville
References: <006d01c72f13$c3fc89a0$49d93052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <008901c72f15$1c8eae80$49d93052@ANNY>

Mistake,
it is Tolkien's birthday 

and on this day:
On this day in 1841, the whaler Acushnet sailed from New Bedford, Massachusetts, with Herman Melville on board. 

Sorry.

  From: Anny Ballardini 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 9:47 AM


  "A whale ship was my Yale College and my Harvard."
  from today's the Writer's Almanac

  with a Happy Birthday to Melville,


  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche 

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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 08:39:21 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 08:39:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others: Gregory Orr's "There"
Message-ID: <cba.7e217c0.32cd0c09@aol.com>

 
There 
When Trakl crossed over, the angels 
accused him of the same poem 
again and again. He held up 
the face God gave him 
and showed them the deep and lovely 
line a single, recurring tear, 
sliding earthward, 
carved on a stone cheek. 
--Gregory Orr, The Caged Owl: New & Selected Poems, Copper  Canyon Press, 2002
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From c288 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  3 09:58:31 2007
From: c288 at hotmail.com (Charmaine Pettit)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 06:58:31 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] JforJames, nice
In-Reply-To: <158194.3919.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F25E092647061E3D6DE0D539EB90@phx.gbl>

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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 10:31:04 2007
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:31:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] New Anne Tardos-Jackson Mac Low CD
Message-ID: <343775.95823.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anne Tardos asked me to post this info of her new CD of a 1999
recording she made with the late Jackson Mac Low:

New site for new CD, with LISTEN:
  http://xtina.org/tarmac.htm
 
____________________
Anne Tardos
42 N. Moore St.
New York, NY 10013
www.annetardos.com
212-226-3346
917-660-5552



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Jan  3 11:00:51 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:00:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] JforJames, nice
References: <BAY106-F25E092647061E3D6DE0D539EB90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00ae01c72f50$59222e90$82fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  Hello - can anyone tell me the rules as to posting poetry on blogs?  I just started this.  


  Much thanks.. 

  Charmaine Pettit

  http://cpwyw.blogspot.com/

  I'm sure our head man, JforJames Finnegan, will soon give you a proper answer, Charmaine.  My answer is that there are no rules except that you don't unduly offend anyone, and try not to go off-topic too much.  There's an archive you can visit.  Read the stuff that's been posted to get an idea of the variety of outlooks that get expressed here.  Pay close attention to my posts, then try not to commit equally outrageous ones.  That's make both me and James mad--me because I don't want competition, James because--well, he and I have a few areas of disagreement, his taste in post-style and mine are quite different.

  Have fun, Bob

   
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From c288 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  3 11:39:25 2007
From: c288 at hotmail.com (Charmaine Pettit)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 08:39:25 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] JforJames, nice
In-Reply-To: <00ae01c72f50$59222e90$82fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F34ABBDFE4FD92FACE908899EB90@phx.gbl>

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From lethas1 at cox.net  Wed Jan  3 13:09:12 2007
From: lethas1 at cox.net (Ed)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:09:12 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts
Message-ID: <20070103180917.XXWW4144.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net>

Does Poetry Have A Social Function?

 

The answer to this question is simple, yes.

I could show you what poetry can do if you'd like but I'm not sure there is
room here to do so.

Poetry can change a person's life.

In some cases it can save one's as well.

Poetry may not feed your mouth but it can reward your soul in ways you might
not even be able to imagine.

 

I started a project last year The Poetry For Life Project

www.thepoetryforlifeproject.com <http://www.thepoetryforlifeproject.com/> 

This is a tool I put together to help those who want to help others, yes,
with poetry.

I posted a few comments people have left on my main site in my MySpace blog

www.myspace.com/amayhem

 

If you get the chance please stop by, let me know what you think.

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From damasalia at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  3 13:20:25 2007
From: damasalia at hotmail.com (salia daman)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:20:25 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary
	Ashley Townsend.
Message-ID: <BAY7-F131F9A8A4B59E533FDB15FB0B90@phx.gbl>


  I came upon your website when I was in the quest for criticism on the poem 
'' The Credo'' by Mary Asley Townsend. I wish to receive informations about 
her literary movement and her religious and political tendency. How far has 
she been effective in the American women literary movement?
I give thanks in advance for your contibution to provide me with some 
resources in this regard.
I am looking forward to sending some comentary on this topic in the near 
future.
Thanks.
    Salia.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger : appels gratuits de PC ? PC ! 
http://www.msn.fr/newhotmail/Default.asp?Ath=f



From queenmouse at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 14:23:15 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:23:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
References: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701031123h2eae612evf54065af27a788b2@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> not?
>


My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,
considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."
Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry
reading? :-)

Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically.  I have
to say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her question
(Im paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do more than
just be what it is?"

Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their
consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge part of
their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov here).  They
want to change the world.  Are they less as poets because they aren't
hermits on the mountaintop?  Does being a hermit on the mountaintop have to
preclude changing the world?

On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite
recluse)?  I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work.
Emily Bronte?  Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking
at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.

So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or anti-social
as people are.  That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.

Suzanne Burns
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From screwzbaran at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 14:30:08 2007
From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:30:08 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701031123h2eae612evf54065af27a788b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
	<aa458fec0701031123h2eae612evf54065af27a788b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0701031130j60f29ebt37e521079021c841@mail.gmail.com>

Suzanne,
Beautifully written and well stated. I agree most with the sentiments about
Adrienne Rich.

--Suzanne Baran

On 1/3/07, Suzanne Burns <queenmouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> > not?
> >
>
>
> My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,
> considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."
> Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry
> reading? :-)
>
> Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically.  I
> have to say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her
> question (Im paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do
> more than just be what it is?"
>
> Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their
> consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge part of
> their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov here).  They
> want to change the world.  Are they less as poets because they aren't
> hermits on the mountaintop?  Does being a hermit on the mountaintop have to
> preclude changing the world?
>
> On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite
> recluse)?  I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work.
> Emily Bronte?  Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking
> at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.
>
> So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or
> anti-social as people are.  That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.
>
> Suzanne Burns
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much
as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. ? Not to mention that most
terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude."  - Walter Benjamin
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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 15:22:31 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:22:31 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ukrainian Poet's Head Is Found
Message-ID: <c45.b8030ad.32cd6a87@aol.com>

_http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2007/01/02/statue-bronze.html_ 
(http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2007/01/02/statue-bronze.html) 
 
Stolen sculpture's head found at Ontario smelter
Last Updated:  Wednesday, January 3, 2007 | 7:04 AM ET 
CBC News 

Days after a two-tonne, seven-metre-high bronze statue of a famous  Ukrainian 
poet was reported stolen from a park in Oakville, Ont., its head has  turned 
up at a nearby smelter.
 
The statue of Taras Shevchenko ? a 19th-century artist and poet credited  
with establishing the modern Ukrainian literary language ? was discovered  
missing on the weekend by two visitors to a 16-acre memorial park in North  
Oakville. Police believe it could have been stolen anytime between Dec. 15-31. 
 
 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan  3 16:35:14 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:35:14 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
Message-ID: <00c801c72f7f$0df72040$afeb3652@ANNY>

too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: aroona reejhsinghani 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: poetry book 


Dear friend,
Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the American biographical society as the  most outstanding woman of the last century
The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of India which is a registered charitable  trust,its an association of writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3 poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
With best of regards,
Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
Chairman and president authors association of india 
Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61 INDIA

Phones  91 022 26360224   91 022 9322247390


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 16:40:24 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:40:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
Message-ID: <d21.38c54a6.32cd7cc8@aol.com>

Congratulations Anny! ~Raven
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 16:50:06 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:50:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
Message-ID: <d01.645bb77.32cd7f0e@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/3/2007 11:30:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
screwzbaran at gmail.com writes:

Why is  it that poetry is expected to always do more than just be what it 
is?"  



Suzanne,  I wanted to say that I also enjoyed your take. I do not know  a 
long list of poets but I think its fair to say that we can be marveled  by a 
poets gift in magnifying language without a grand story to tell or a  poets gift 
for content and its measure for human good. I think the loner on the  hilltop 
might do both. ~Raven
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 16:54:34 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:54:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
In-Reply-To: <00c801c72f7f$0df72040$afeb3652@ANNY>
References: <00c801c72f7f$0df72040$afeb3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701031354h506ccfe4ta417cab38bfb240c@mail.gmail.com>

Good Lord.  This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry


On 1/3/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
>  too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* aroona reejhsinghani<areejhsinghani at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
> *Subject:* poetry book
>
>
> Dear friend,
> Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona
> Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of
> records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have
> also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by
> the American biographical society as the  most outstanding woman of the
> last century
> The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association
> of India which is a registered charitable  trust,its an association of
> writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3
> poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out
> an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in
> the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and
> rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your
> photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers
> for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is
> covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short
> biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear
> from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in
> your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
> If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my
> name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
> With best of regards,
> Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
> Chairman and president authors association of india
> Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61
> INDIA
>
> Phones  91 022 26360224   91 022 9322247390
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 17:07:47 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:07:47 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
Message-ID: <c4f.c80b7eb.32cd8333@aol.com>

 
Jeff, cough up those two thousand rupees you've been saving
for a Monsoon day. No more hiding your light under
a cobra basket.
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 1/3/2007 4:55:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Good Lord.  This can't be serious.
 
Jeff Newberry


On 1/3/07, Anny  Ballardini <_anny.ballardini at tin.it_ 
(mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it) >  wrote:  
 
too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see  here:
 
----- Original Message -----  
From: _aroona  reejhsinghani_ (mailto:areejhsinghani at yahoo.com)  
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: poetry book 



Dear  friend,
Before  I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona 
Reejhsinghani  I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records 
which is  equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been  
congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the  American 
biographical society as the   most outstanding  woman of the last century
The  reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of  
India which is a registered charitable  trust,its an  association of 
writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we  have brought out 3 poetry 
books in which fifty poets have participated,now  we are bringing out an 
international anthology of poetry,we would be happy  if you participate in the book 
for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from  Indian writers and rupees two 
thousands from writers from outside India,  which includes your photo biodata 
and address these books are sent to all  the major newspapers for  reviewing






 
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From LauraHeidy at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 17:32:06 2007
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:32:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
Message-ID: <d1d.16e0a01.32cd88e6@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/3/2007 4:55:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Good Lord.  This can't be serious.
 
Jeff Newberry




Not unless you've got 2,000 rupees.
 
In her defense, the woman who wrote to Anny actually HAS written at least  
150 books - and only 125 of them were cookbooks on Indian cuisine.  (No mention 
was made on the subject matter of  the remaining 25  and absolutely no 
information on any poetry books came to light but you  gotta figure people are 
probably way more interested in eating than they are in  reading.)
 
(Hey, what the hell - I'm home sick from work with nothing much to do other  
than find a good reason not to do laundry.  Checking out her pro-offered  
credentials on behalf of everyone here seemed looked like a damn good reason to  
postpone real life.)
 
After all, there is 2,000 rupees at stake.
 
Lo
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan  3 17:34:49 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:34:49 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
References: <d01.645bb77.32cd7f0e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <011001c72f87$61367dc0$afeb3652@ANNY>

Was trying to find an answer also to this question, and while reading the following I think there is a way of seeing with which I could agree:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, Deleuze offers that pure immanence and life will suppose one another unconditionally: "We will say of pure immanence that it is A LIFE, and nothing else. [...] A life is the immanence of immanence, absolute immanence: it is complete power, complete bliss [Deleuze, Pure Immanence, p.27]." This is not some abstract, mystical notion of life but a life, a specific yet impersonal, indefinite life discovered in the real singularity of events and virtuality of moments. A life is subjectless, neutral, and preceding all individuation and stratification, is present in all things, and thus always immanent to itself. "A life is everywhere [...]: an immanent life carrying with it the events and singularities that are merely actualized in subjects and objects [Deleuze, Pure Immanence, p.29]."

An ethics of immanence will disavow its reference to judgments of good and evil, right and wrong, as according to a transcendent model, rule or law. Rather the diversity of living things and particularity of events will demand the abstract methods of immanent evaluation (ethics) and immanent experimentation (creativity). These twin concepts will become the basis of a lived Deleuzian ethic.

from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_of_immanence


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


the specific question can be asked in this way:

Can creativity meet ethics? Do evaluation and experimentation have a common ground? I do not see why they do not or cannot. 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 17:54:50 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:54:50 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
Message-ID: <cae.72f7210.32cd8e3a@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/3/2007 2:23:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
queenmouse at gmail.com writes:

My first  thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim, 
considering how many  young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."  Seriously: do 
we not  hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry reading? :-) 

Then  I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically.  I have 
to  say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her question (Im 
 paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do more than just 
 be what it is?" 

Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply  social in their 
consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a  huge part of their vision 
(I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov  here).  They want to change 
the world.  Are they less as poets  because they aren't hermits on the 
mountaintop?  Does being a hermit on  the mountaintop have to preclude changing the 
world?  

On the  other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite 
recluse)?  I  don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work. Emily  
Bronte?  Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking at  "social" 
through the wrong end of a telescope. 

So I guess my answer  would be that poetry is about as social or anti-social 
as people are.   That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.



I side more with Major Jackson's view. Because poetry is made of only  
word-stuff,
unlike the other arts, it has a way of simply and readily connecting  
directly with the lives of artists
and non-artists alike. It's song without the support of music per se.  
Certainly there isn't a 
requirement that any poet use their art for social good or social  
engagement...but they're likely 
to get more satisfaction from the practice of their art if they do so.  
Poetry is really 'poetries', 
of course (as Billy Collins aptly noted in his intro to his BAP that David  
Graham posted here
recently), yet I think a lot of us came to this art because it  was still a 
place where 
genuine human connection, through deep thought and emotions, were still  
valued over flash and blare, 
and where the medium was just some skillful conveyance of  words spoken or as 
text. In terms of poetry's 
social function, doing a poem for a wedding or funeral or for another  person 
(be they lover or friend) 
might be one of the most rewarding experiences a poet is ever likely  have in 
his/her 'craft or sullen art'.
 
"A poem is a stone fallen from heaven. No one can judge it."  Mandelstam said 
something to this
effect. So in that way I agree with Daisy Fried who seems to be invoking  the 
old dictum of
Archibald McLeish that a 'Poem should mean not, but be'. But be what? I  ask, 
be what? Aren't
there better and worse, lesser and greater things it can be?
Finnegan
 
 
 
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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  3 18:19:24 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:19:24 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701031123h2eae612evf54065af27a788b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cfc.62cd9c5.32cbf5f0@aol.com>
	<aa458fec0701031123h2eae612evf54065af27a788b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFDC204E-7407-4FD0-97C6-01088B2A151F@earthlink.net>


I like the way you (Suzanne) set up the binary aspects of the issue  
to flesh out a starting point...

Maybe I've never been so good at seeing the boundaries that others see,
or walking through the 'chartered streets' (behind a 'marraige  
hearse') as if I live there...
but I'm trying to get better at ("without losing track and coming  
down a bit too hard")

so these thoughts about social function
bring up the question of form vs. something like infinity
which also can becomes a binary that needs to be fleshed out

So, in bringing up Dickinson, who for many still has the REPUTATION  
as not much that is "social" in her work,
I don't think I'm just reactively gainsaying, or playing 'devil's  
advocate,' if I want to emphasize the aspects of her work that are  
social--
but part of what attracts me to her work is the way, taken as a  
whole, I get a feeling of Dickinson at her best
as transcending the 'social' 'non-social' split (insofar as such a  
split can even be said to exist once one gets past the
allegedly more shareable 'surface' of the 'chartered streets'  
etc...)....
Or, if not transcend per se, at least see the common roots obscured  
by the municipal divisions...
For instance, even in some of Dickinson's most famous, bumperstick- 
like sayings (and I don't mean that as a put-down at all)
like
"Some keep the sabbath going to church"
or "I taste a liquor never brewed" etc....'"
she's using the conceit of contrasting (but also showing the  
similarities)
between solitary forms of intoxication and social forms.
One COULD validly say these poems have a "social function"
and one could equally validly say these poems have no social  
function....

And then Dickinson often gets contrasted with her roughly  
contemporary ("one of the roughs")
Whitman, in part because it makes a nice seemingly binary historical  
narrative,
the lions at the gate of the american empire poetic tradition,
roughly parallel to the British Caedmon's Hymn vs. Beowulf
or the Greek Sappho vs. Homer dichotomy.

Yet, one could equally make the argument that
Whitman is no more public ("social"), and no less personal  
("private") than Dickinson,
and not just because of the feminist koan, "the personal is the  
political"
(though there's something there too)....

Chris
On Jan 3, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Suzanne Burns wrote:

>
>
> On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
> So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> not?
>
>
> My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,  
> considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get  
> laid...."  Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses  
> as yonder poetry reading? :-)
>
> Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less  
> sardonically.  I have to say I really loved Daisy Fried's  
> contribution, especially her question (Im paraphrasing) "Why is it  
> that poetry is expected to always do more than just be what it is?"
>
> Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their  
> consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge  
> part of their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise  
> Levertov here).  They want to change the world.  Are they less as  
> poets because they aren't hermits on the mountaintop?  Does being a  
> hermit on the mountaintop have to preclude changing the world?
>
> On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite  
> recluse)?  I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her  
> work. Emily Bronte?  Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all  
> rather like looking at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.
>
> So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or  
> anti-social as people are.  That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.
>
> Suzanne Burns
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From duemer at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 18:46:25 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:46:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <459B2A5D.2020409@myuw.net>
References: <c10.d3d06aa.32cc4119@aol.com>
	<e8b111d70701021655q6a250401l760b5b83cea9b631@mail.gmail.com>
	<459B2A5D.2020409@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701031546u293659cesdc7e5a34d54f0e37@mail.gmail.com>

Of course, no one has ever heard of Jason Quackenbush & Joseph Duemer is
known the world around!

Seriously, I think the question is misconceived. The misconception, I think,
lies in the notion of "function." Every human activity has a "social
function." One reason I was (lightly, I hope) disdainful of the original
post is that it's just another way of asking, What is poetry good for, you
parasite? And the Poetry Magazine answer is, Poetry is good for elite
cultural refinement. It is an obscure & faintly erotic form of urban status.
Pound dealt with this in "Mauberly" & he took an earlier, youthful, version
of himself as target, which took guts. (That he wrote some of the most
beautiful quatrains in modern English is another subject.) Anyhow, thinking
of Christian Wimin, I am reminded of the final lines of James Wright's poem,
"Ars Poetica: Some Recent Criticism": Reader, we had a lovely language. / We
would not listen. / Ah, you bastards, / How I hate you. [Lineation from
memory.]

jd

On 1/2/07, Jason Quackenbush <jfq at myuw.net> wrote:
>
> i'm maybe inordinately proud of the fact that i don't think either
> publication would consider printing anything of mine. i find both of them
> skull
> crushingly boring, and as far as i can tell christian wiman and the influx
> of cash have only managed to make Poetry more irrelevant than it was before.
>
> Joseph Duemer wrote:
> > Well, Finnegan, over the years APR has published quite a ferw of my
> > poems & Poetry has published exactly zero, so you could say I'm biased.
> > I disagree about APR, though.
> >
> > jd
> >
> > On 1/2/07, *JforJames at aol.com <mailto:JforJames at aol.com>*
> > <JforJames at aol.com <mailto:JforJames at aol.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     In a message dated 1/2/2007 2:07:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >     duemer at gmail.com <mailto:duemer at gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >         Wimin's panel looks a lot like the Iraq Study Group to me. A
> >         group of eminences whose conclusions are known before they
> >         begin. With neither side of the debate, ultimately paying any
> >         attention to them. Political Kabuki at Poetry Magazine.
> >
> >
> >     To quibble, Joe, I wouldn't call any of that crew an 'eminence'. In
> >     the big circulation poetry
> >     mags of which there are only two, the APR rag is looking more tired
> >     these days. Poetry
> >     more full of spit and vinegar than I can ever remember it. Either it
> >     was Wiman's doing or the
> >     Lilly heiress' cash...but something's changed in Chicago other than
> >     the address of
> >     their offices.
> >     Finnegan
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     New-Poetry mailing list
> >     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joseph Duemer
> > Professor of Humanities
> > Clarkson University
> > [sharpsand.net <http://sharpsand.net>]
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From duemer at gmail.com  Wed Jan  3 18:54:32 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:54:32 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary
	Ashley Townsend.
In-Reply-To: <BAY7-F131F9A8A4B59E533FDB15FB0B90@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY7-F131F9A8A4B59E533FDB15FB0B90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701031554v23b362e1r38f5bdc71225e52d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Salia, Mary Ashley Townsend has been completely forgotten. As if she
never existed. Furthermore, she earned her obscurity. She has had no effect
on American women's writing. And that is indeed fortunate.

jd

On 1/3/07, salia daman <damasalia at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>   I came upon your website when I was in the quest for criticism on the
> poem
> '' The Credo'' by Mary Asley Townsend. I wish to receive informations
> about
> her literary movement and her religious and political tendency. How far
> has
> she been effective in the American women literary movement?
> I give thanks in advance for your contibution to provide me with some
> resources in this regard.
> I am looking forward to sending some comentary on this topic in the near
> future.
> Thanks.
>     Salia.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Messenger : appels gratuits de PC ? PC !
> http://www.msn.fr/newhotmail/Default.asp?Ath=f
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From tad at opus40.org  Wed Jan  3 19:10:20 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:10:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by
	MaryAshley Townsend.
References: <BAY7-F131F9A8A4B59E533FDB15FB0B90@phx.gbl>
	<e8b111d70701031554v23b362e1r38f5bdc71225e52d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ff01c72f94$b8ee78d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

The Greenwood Encyclopedia, which is pretty exhaustive, has no entry for her.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Duemer 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 6:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by MaryAshley Townsend.


  Dear Salia, Mary Ashley Townsend has been completely forgotten. As if she never existed. Furthermore, she earned her obscurity. She has had no effect on American women's writing. And that is indeed fortunate.

  jd 


  On 1/3/07, salia daman <damasalia at hotmail.com> wrote:

      I came upon your website when I was in the quest for criticism on the poem
    '' The Credo'' by Mary Asley Townsend. I wish to receive informations about
    her literary movement and her religious and political tendency. How far has 
    she been effective in the American women literary movement?
    I give thanks in advance for your contibution to provide me with some
    resources in this regard.
    I am looking forward to sending some comentary on this topic in the near 
    future.
    Thanks.
        Salia.

    _________________________________________________________________
    MSN Messenger : appels gratuits de PC ? PC !
    http://www.msn.fr/newhotmail/Default.asp?Ath=f 

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




  -- 
  Joseph Duemer
  Professor of Humanities
  Clarkson University
  [sharpsand.net ] 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 19:46:01 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:46:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <200701032331.l03NVZ8X016958@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <593555.83635.qm@web35511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A silly question, in my opinion. The question, "Why/to
what is art relevant?" comes up all the time, but I
think it's poorly posed. I'd ask: "To what is art NOT,
at least potentially, relevant?" The specificity of
art is its lack of specificity: "L'art n'est pas un
*domaine*", as a poet-friend puts it. It can involve
any aspect of human experience.
I seem to recall Bob Grumman piping in with slightly
disingenuous remarks in favor of an art for art's sake
perspective. Although I disagreed strongly with them
at the time (ironical as they seemed to me), there's a
way in which that perspective, I think, tends to
dovetail with the above perspective, in the final
analysis: in the sense that they both refuse or resist
precisely the kind of limiting gestures one sees among
partisans of politically committed writing, for
instance -- insistance on some narrow conception of
"relevance" or "social function". Similarly, I'd say
these thoughts go nicely with Suzanne Burn's.
Mandelstam's a good poet to quote for all kinds of
reasons, since he certainly (I think) transcends any
political/social vs. formalist divide. One might think
of Celan or Joris, too.
Cheers and happy new year to all,
Amicalement,
Alex


www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From tad at opus40.org  Wed Jan  3 15:29:12 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:29:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others: Gregory Orr's "There"
References: <cba.7e217c0.32cd0c09@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003f01c72f75$d4abdaa0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

This is lovely.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 8:39 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others: Gregory Orr's "There"


  There

   

  When Trakl crossed over, the angels

  accused him of the same poem

  again and again. He held up

  the face God gave him

  and showed them the deep and lovely

  line a single, recurring tear,

  sliding earthward,

  carved on a stone cheek.

   

   

  --Gregory Orr, The Caged Owl: New & Selected Poems, 

  Copper Canyon Press, 2002


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From kazmandu at aol.com  Wed Jan  3 20:33:58 2007
From: kazmandu at aol.com (kazmandu at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:33:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] How does this relate to poets? -- nerve versus talent
In-Reply-To: <200612282006.kBSK6V8X010086@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200612282006.kBSK6V8X010086@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <8C8FDB78A141141-10E8-9BAB@MBLK-M26.sysops.aol.com>

Taken from delancyplace.com
 
In today's encore excerpt, Lynda Obst, producer of such movies as Sleepless in Seattle, Contact and The Fisher King, discusses the essential Hollywood quality of "nerve":

"Nerve most commonly comes from having nothing to lose. ... That means you?re either so low it looks like up to you, so rich you can sustain a loss, or believe in something so strongly you don't care what anyone thinks. It's easy to be nervy when your livelihood is not at stake. This has, sadly, never been an option for me, but it is how the game is most effectively played. As in all high-stakes gambling, you should never roll the dice with dinner money. You must play baccarat as if you were an aristocrat so you are not devastated by any likely subversion. Always remember the famous adage about the movie business: You can't make a living, you can only get rich. So I have to play like I am a high roller whether I have the cushion or not. When Monday morning comes and I've rightly walked away from a bad deal, it only feels good when I have money in the bank. Low overhead can be a great protection, one that I've never afforded myself. 

"One of the most winning power strategies is the ability to walk away from a deal. People want you when you don't need them and it stuns them that you're willing to split--it implies that you are fine without them. Then they wonder how they will be fine without you. When Laura Ziskin was asked to run a new division at Fox, she took months to decide. Her ambivalence raised the ante--certainly her salary--for the studio. As noted above, the ability to take this position implies options or money or both. No one cares where the money comes from either: arms merchants, beauty salons, money launderers, Mafiosi (kind of charming in fact), shopping centers. Money talks; nobody walks. The tragedy is that talent with no nerve equals failure, whereas there are many careers that attest the power of nerve alone. Harry Cohn, crass former garment executive who founded Columbia, is the paradigm. Scores of others have followed in his image.

"A director can have nerve and no talent with a good producer and a crew. If she has talent and no nerve and no producer with nerve, no movie. Someone in the mix has to have nerve, and most nervy people have bad manners. Nerve mixed with style, of course, is the ultimate. Many elegant people are embarrassed at the show of nerve, moxie, or unbridled aggression. They try to cultivate stylish ways to be in your face, but in the end being in your face is being rude and not being in your face is being absent. Subtlety doesn't work here because no one is looking long enough to see it. Modesty prior to success is too authentic for Hollywood . It makes everyone uncomfortable. Anyway, too much modesty inhibits nerve. Modesty postsuccess is what passes for grace."
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Jan  3 20:47:05 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:47:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
References: <593555.83635.qm@web35511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c72fa2$3f541170$3ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Sorry, Alex, but I'm never being ironic when I plunk down for art for art's 
sake.  I grew up on Keats and Wilde--and Nietzsche who famously said that 
without music, life would be a mistake.  When I hear about poetry's "social 
function," I always think of Puritans who want everything to contribute to 
food on the table and roofs over heads, and their left-wing descendants.  I 
don't think anything is more important than the beauty the best poetry 
provides us.  I think only truth equal to it.  These two things are all I 
live for; the "necessities" are necessary, but only to allow me (and 
humanity) to get to what really counts.

I do think poetry has social functions, but so does everything else--and it 
bothers me to hear poetry defended because it has them.  One is invigorating 
the language, a second breaking people free from settled outlooks.  Among 
others.

No more.  I really do have Important Things to get done!

--Bob G. 




From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  3 23:21:57 2007
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 04:21:57 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo''
	byMaryAshley Townsend.
References: <BAY7-F131F9A8A4B59E533FDB15FB0B90@phx.gbl><e8b111d70701031554v23b362e1r38f5bdc71225e52d@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ff01c72f94$b8ee78d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <00df01c72fb7$e5846c10$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>

<<
From: TheOldMole

The Greenwood Encyclopedia, which is pretty exhaustive, has no entry for 
her.
>>

There is however (inevitably) an entry in Wikipedia for her:

***********************************

Mary Ashley Townsend (1832-1901) was an American poet and writer.

She was born in Lyons, New York, about 1836. Her maiden name was Van 
Voorhis. She was educated in her native town and married Gideon Townsend, of 
New Orleans, Louisiana.

She began to write for publication about 1856, and under the pen-name of 
"Xariffa" made a reputation as the author of "Quillotypes," a series of 
humorous papers that appeared in the New Orleans "Delta" and were widely 
copied by the southern and western press. Her other works are "The Brother 
Clerks" (New York, 1859); "Poems" (Philadelphia, 1870); "The Captain's 
Story" (1874); and "Down the Bayou, and other Poems" (Boston, 1884). Her 
most important short poems are "Creed," "A Woman's Wish," "The Bather," and 
"The Wind."

She was officially appointed to deliver the poem on the opening of the New 
Orleans exposition in 1884, and that at the unveiling of the statue of 
General Albert Sidney Johnston in 1887.

[edit] External links
Selected Townsend poems
Works by Mary Ashley Townsend at Project Gutenberg

*******************

-- At that, she gets more fully treated there than:

David Macbeth Moir (January 5, 1798 - July 6, 1851), Scottish physician and 
writer, was born at Musselburgh.

Wiki, while noting his Blackwoods pen name as Delta, fails to indicate that 
he was a prolific writer of poems in the sapphic stanza for that journal. 
These were, admittedly, so atrocious that Moir failed to include them in his 
voluminous Collected Poems (which in turn failed even to achieve the 
distinction of a single reprinting).

As for influences on American women's poetry, it suddenly strikes me to 
wonder whether Dorothy Parker and Edna St Vincent Millay were aware of the 
earlier work of Lady Mary Wortley Montagu in England.

Just a thought ...

Robin 




From chris.lott at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 01:58:04 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:58:04 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
In-Reply-To: <002a01c72fa2$3f541170$3ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <593555.83635.qm@web35511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<002a01c72fa2$3f541170$3ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701032258y290cef52p7157835844467d92@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/3/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Sorry, Alex, but I'm never being ironic when I plunk down for art for art's
> sake.  I grew up on Keats and Wilde--and Nietzsche who famously said that
> without music, life would be a mistake.  When I hear about poetry's "social
> function," I always think of Puritans who want everything to contribute to
> food on the table and roofs over heads, and their left-wing descendants.  I
> don't think anything is more important than the beauty the best poetry
> provides us.  I think only truth equal to it.  These two things are all I
> live for; the "necessities" are necessary, but only to allow me (and
> humanity) to get to what really counts.
>
> I do think poetry has social functions, but so does everything else--and it
> bothers me to hear poetry defended because it has them.  One is invigorating
> the language, a second breaking people free from settled outlooks.  Among
> others.

Well said. On both counts.

c


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 07:01:38 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 06:01:38 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
References: <00c801c72f7f$0df72040$afeb3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <004b01c72ff8$17c3eee0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Sounds like an Indian version pf poetry.com aka International Library of Poetry  http://www.windpub.com/literary.scams/bigmoney.htm

Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: New Poetry 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:35 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 


  too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: aroona reejhsinghani 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
  Subject: poetry book 


  Dear friend,
  Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the American biographical society as the  most outstanding woman of the last century
  The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of India which is a registered charitable  trust,its an association of writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3 poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
  If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
  With best of regards,
  Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
  Chairman and president authors association of india 
  Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61 INDIA

  Phones  91 022 26360224   91 022 9322247390


  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 10:57:41 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:57:41 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary
	Ashley Tow...
Message-ID: <c9a.6d5c454.32ce7df5@aol.com>

Anyone have this poem 'Credo' or 'Creed' to post?
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 11:34:45 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 11:34:45 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fulcrum Marathon Jan 10
Message-ID: <c6d.8bce314.32ce86a5@aol.com>

Date:    Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:21:42 +0000
From:     Fulcrum Annual <editor at FULCRUMPOETRY.COM>
Subject: Fulcrum Marathon Jan  10

FULCRUM MARATHON POETRY READING
WHEN: Wednesday Jan 10 at 5:30  p.m.
WHERE: Lame Duck Books, 12 Arrow Street, Harvard Square (landmark: Cafe  P=
amplona)
WHO: David Blair, Lisa Goldfarb, Joan Houlihan, George  Kalogeris, Katia K=
apovich, X J Kennedy, Ben Mazer, Andy McCord, John  Mulrooney, Philip Niko=
layev, Benjamin Paloff, Jacquelyn Pope, Don Share,  Mark Schorr, Ellen Ste=
inbaum, Stephen Sturgeon, Ellen Wehle &  others
HOW: Free, reception to follow, all friends are welcome!
SPONSORED  by Fulcrum and Lame Duck Books (http://www.lameduckbooks.com/)
QUERIES: 617  868-2022

(NB Fulcrum contributors! If you are a contributor to any of  Fulcrum's is=
sues 1-5 but haven't yet responded to our previous invitation,  we may sti=
ll be able to include you in this reading if you reply right away  and con=
firm you intention to participate. If you did respond positively but  are =
not on the above list, please let us know  too.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Philip  Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, Editors 
FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF POETRY AND  AESTHETICS
334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2
Cambridge, MA 02139,  USA
http://fulcrumpoetry.com
phone +1.617.864.7874
e-mail  editor{AT}fulcrumpoetry.com
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From LauraHeidy at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 12:51:26 2007
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:51:26 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary
	Ashley Tow...
Message-ID: <c97.6014e3d.32ce989e@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/4/2007 10:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

Anyone have this poem 'Credo' or 'Creed' to post?
Finnegan



CREED
Mary Ashley Townsend 

I believe if I should  die,
And you should kiss my eyelids when I lie
Cold, dead, and dumb to all  the world contains,
The folded orbs would open at thy breath,
And, from  its exile in the isles of death,
Life would come gladly back along my  veins.

I believe if I were dead,
And you upon my lifeless heart  should tread,
Not knowing what the poor clod chanced to be,
It would find  sudden pulse beneath the touch
Of him it ever loved in life so much,
And  throb again--warm, tender, true to thee.

I believe if on my  grave,
Hidden in woody depths or by the wave,
Your eyes should drop some  warm tears of regret,
>From every salty seed of your dear grief
Some fair,  sweet blossom would leap into leaf
To prove death could not make my love  forget.

I believe if I should fade,
Into those mystic realms where  light is made,
And you should long once more my face to see,
I would come  forth upon the hill of night
And gather stars, like fagots, till thy  sight,
Led by their beacon blaze, fell full on me.

I believe my faith  in thee,
Strong as my life, so nobly placed to be,
I would as soon expect  to see the sun
Fall like a dead king from his height sublime,
His glory  stricken from the throne of time,
As thee unworthy the worship thou hast  won.

I believe who hath not loved
Hath half the sweetness of his life  unproved;
Like one who, with the grape within his grasp,
Drops it with all  its crimson juices unpressed,
And all its luscious sweetness left  unguessed,
Out from his careless and unheeding clasp.

I believe love,  pure and true,
Is to the soul a sweet, immortal dew
That gems life's  petals in its hours of dusk.
The waiting angels see and recognize
The rich  crown jewel, Love, of Paradise
When life falls from us like a withered  husk
 
_Angela  Boewdeker reciting "Creed'" by Mary Ashley Townsend_ 
(http://fp.uni.edu/halgedah/seminar_participants/boedeker.htm)  
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From hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jan  4 14:49:18 2007
From: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk (gbemi tijani-mst)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:49:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <200701032331.l03NVZ8Y016958@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <299985.51816.qm@web26013.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

YES I CONCUR THAT POETRY HAS A SOCIAL FUNCTION POLITICALLY,PSYCHOLOGICALLY,SPIRITUALLY AND much more than just the intellectual exercise MOST WILL READILY ascribe its impact interiorly and exteriorly including its  bouying effect on readers be they writers or poets themselves Or again as civic mandate protectors or  genuine activists -how much more for enthusiasts...I
  magine Marlowe 's WHO EVER LOVED, THAT DOES NOT LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT?This is simply an inevitable poetic vulnerability most people must have experienced then and now...i wish time permits more to afford contibutions to Susane Burns & this perennially valid poser by the ED ROBERTS-Does poetry have a social function? Sometimes poetry feeds mu soul satisfactorily to the extent i 'm somehow renewed in the actual sense of the word askance -it has a healing significance on ones total psyche partly because one goes to a strange or familiar poetry without force imbued with an expectation that a special language or philosophy will be emotionally or intellectually useful or at least be or become a substrate for further musing that's if ones not taken by the scruff of the neck instantly or presently...Atimes i cant even explain which one is practically indispensable to my holistic being ! - secular poetry or their professionally informed commentary especially  the sustained fora
 afforded by the internet and NEW POETRY Oor the transcedental sweetness of sacred ,biblical poetry a.Despite the latter 's special spiritual applications -their potency are also enhanced by poets annotationsand comments to simply and offer theoretical explanations of these archival literary sgacity.I dont think i dont love poetry -love poetry beyond the laughjing thighs  and joyfully playfully erotic poetry-common to all intellects globally...i hope internet time will permit these selected poems-personal,political,panergyric
  selected from my modest mind across the years-
  gbemi tijani mst 4 107 

new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote:
  Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

1. from Ed Roberts (Ed)
2. Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary Ashley
Townsend. (salia daman)
3. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Suzanne Burns)
4. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Suzanne Baran)
5. Ukrainian Poet's Head Is Found (JforJames at aol.com)
6. Fw: poetry book (Anny Ballardini)
7. Re: Fw: poetry book (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
8. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
9. Re: Fw: poetry book (Jeff Newberry)
10. Re: Fw: poetry book (JforJames at aol.com)
11. Re: Fw: poetry book (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
12. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Anny Ballardini)
13. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (JforJames at aol.com)
14. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Chris Stroffolino)
15. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Joseph Duemer)
16. Re: Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary Ashley
Townsend. (Joseph Duemer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:09:12 -0600
From: "Ed" 
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts
To: 
Message-ID:
<20070103180917.XXWW4144.eastrmmtao05.cox.net at eastrmimpo01.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Does Poetry Have A Social Function?



The answer to this question is simple, yes.

I could show you what poetry can do if you'd like but I'm not sure there is
room here to do so.

Poetry can change a person's life.

In some cases it can save one's as well.

Poetry may not feed your mouth but it can reward your soul in ways you might
not even be able to imagine.



I started a project last year The Poetry For Life Project

www.thepoetryforlifeproject.com 

This is a tool I put together to help those who want to help others, yes,
with poetry.

I posted a few comments people have left on my main site in my MySpace blog

www.myspace.com/amayhem



If you get the chance please stop by, let me know what you think.

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:20:25 +0000
From: "salia daman" 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by
Mary Ashley Townsend.
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed


I came upon your website when I was in the quest for criticism on the poem 
'' The Credo'' by Mary Asley Townsend. I wish to receive informations about 
her literary movement and her religious and political tendency. How far has 
she been effective in the American women literary movement?
I give thanks in advance for your contibution to provide me with some 
resources in this regard.
I am looking forward to sending some comentary on this topic in the near 
future.
Thanks.
Salia.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger : appels gratuits de PC ? PC ! 
http://www.msn.fr/newhotmail/Default.asp?Ath=f



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:23:15 -0500
From: "Suzanne Burns" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>
>
> So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> not?
>


My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,
considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."
Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry
reading? :-)

Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically. I have
to say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her question
(Im paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do more than
just be what it is?"

Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their
consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge part of
their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov here). They
want to change the world. Are they less as poets because they aren't
hermits on the mountaintop? Does being a hermit on the mountaintop have to
preclude changing the world?

On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite
recluse)? I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work.
Emily Bronte? Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking
at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.

So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or anti-social
as people are. That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.

Suzanne Burns
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:30:08 -0800
From: "Suzanne Baran" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"

Message-ID:
<2d5ffa0b0701031130j60f29ebt37e521079021c841 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Suzanne,
Beautifully written and well stated. I agree most with the sentiments about
Adrienne Rich.

--Suzanne Baran

On 1/3/07, Suzanne Burns wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> > not?
> >
>
>
> My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,
> considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."
> Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry
> reading? :-)
>
> Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically. I
> have to say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her
> question (Im paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do
> more than just be what it is?"
>
> Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their
> consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge part of
> their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov here). They
> want to change the world. Are they less as poets because they aren't
> hermits on the mountaintop? Does being a hermit on the mountaintop have to
> preclude changing the world?
>
> On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite
> recluse)? I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work.
> Emily Bronte? Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking
> at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.
>
> So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or
> anti-social as people are. That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.
>
> Suzanne Burns
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much
as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. 
 Not to mention that most
terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude." - Walter Benjamin
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:22:31 EST
From: JforJames at aol.com
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ukrainian Poet's Head Is Found
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

_http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2007/01/02/statue-bronze.html_ 
(http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2007/01/02/statue-bronze.html) 

Stolen sculpture's head found at Ontario smelter
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 | 7:04 AM ET 
CBC News 

Days after a two-tonne, seven-metre-high bronze statue of a famous Ukrainian 
poet was reported stolen from a park in Oakville, Ont., its head has turned 
up at a nearby smelter.

The statue of Taras Shevchenko ??? a 19th-century artist and poet credited 
with establishing the modern Ukrainian literary language ??? was discovered 
missing on the weekend by two visitors to a 16-acre memorial park in North 
Oakville. Police believe it could have been stolen anytime between Dec. 15-31. 


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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:35:14 +0100
From: "Anny Ballardini" 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
To: "New Poetry" 
Message-ID: <00c801c72f7f$0df72040$afeb3652 at ANNY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: aroona reejhsinghani 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: poetry book 


Dear friend,
Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the American biographical society as the most outstanding woman of the last century
The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of India which is a registered charitable trust,its an association of writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3 poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
With best of regards,
Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
Chairman and president authors association of india 
Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61 INDIA

Phones 91 022 26360224 91 022 9322247390


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:40:24 EST
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Congratulations Anny! ~Raven
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:50:06 EST
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


In a message dated 1/3/2007 11:30:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
screwzbaran at gmail.com writes:

Why is it that poetry is expected to always do more than just be what it 
is?" 



Suzanne, I wanted to say that I also enjoyed your take. I do not know a 
long list of poets but I think its fair to say that we can be marveled by a 
poets gift in magnifying language without a grand story to tell or a poets gift 
for content and its measure for human good. I think the loner on the hilltop 
might do both. ~Raven
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:54:34 -0500
From: "Jeff Newberry" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"

Message-ID:
<731bb17a0701031354h506ccfe4ta417cab38bfb240c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Good Lord. This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry


On 1/3/07, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* aroona reejhsinghani
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
> *Subject:* poetry book
>
>
> Dear friend,
> Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona
> Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of
> records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have
> also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by
> the American biographical society as the most outstanding woman of the
> last century
> The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association
> of India which is a registered charitable trust,its an association of
> writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3
> poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out
> an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in
> the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and
> rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your
> photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers
> for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is
> covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short
> biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear
> from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in
> your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
> If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my
> name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
> With best of regards,
> Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
> Chairman and president authors association of india
> Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61
> INDIA
>
> Phones 91 022 26360224 91 022 9322247390
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:07:47 EST
From: JforJames at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Jeff, cough up those two thousand rupees you've been saving
for a Monsoon day. No more hiding your light under
a cobra basket.
Finnegan

In a message dated 1/3/2007 4:55:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Good Lord. This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry


On 1/3/07, Anny Ballardini <_anny.ballardini at tin.it_ 
(mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it) > wrote: 

too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: _aroona reejhsinghani_ (mailto:areejhsinghani at yahoo.com) 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: poetry book 



Dear friend,
Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona 
Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records 
which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been 
congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the American 
biographical society as the most outstanding woman of the last century
The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of 
India which is a registered charitable trust,its an association of 
writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3 poetry 
books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out an 
international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in the book 
for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and rupees two 
thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your photo biodata 
and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers for reviewing







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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:32:06 EST
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


In a message dated 1/3/2007 4:55:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Good Lord. This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry




Not unless you've got 2,000 rupees.

In her defense, the woman who wrote to Anny actually HAS written at least 
150 books - and only 125 of them were cookbooks on Indian cuisine. (No mention 
was made on the subject matter of the remaining 25 and absolutely no 
information on any poetry books came to light but you gotta figure people are 
probably way more interested in eating than they are in reading.)

(Hey, what the hell - I'm home sick from work with nothing much to do other 
than find a good reason not to do laundry. Checking out her pro-offered 
credentials on behalf of everyone here seemed looked like a damn good reason to 
postpone real life.)

After all, there is 2,000 rupees at stake.

Lo
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:34:49 +0100
From: "Anny Ballardini" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"

=== message truncated ===

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
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From hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jan  4 15:23:47 2007
From: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk (gbemi tijani-mst)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:23:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <200701032331.l03NVZ8Y016958@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <560117.4328.qm@web26011.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

YES I CONCUR THAT POETRY HAS A SOCIAL FUNCTION POLITICALLY,PSYCHOLOGICALLY,SPIRITUALLY AND much more than just the intellectual exercise MOST WILL READILY ascribe its impact interiorly and exteriorly including its  bouying effect on readers be they writers or poets themselves Or again as civic mandate protectors or  genuine activists -how much more for enthusiasts...I
  magine Marlowe 's WHO EVER LOVED, THAT DOES NOT LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT?This is simply an inevitable poetic vulnerability most people must have experienced then and now...i wish time permits more to afford contibutions to Susane Burns & this perennially valid poser by the ED ROBERTS-Does poetry have a social function? Sometimes poetry feeds mu soul satisfactorily to the extent i 'm somehow renewed in the actual sense of the word askance -it has a healing significance on ones total psyche partly because one goes to a strange or familiar poetry without force imbued with an expectation that a special language or philosophy will be emotionally or intellectually useful or at least be or become a substrate for further musing that's if ones not taken by the scruff of the neck instantly or presently...Atimes i cant even explain which one is practically indispensable to my holistic being ! - secular poetry or their professionally informed commentary especially  the sustained fora
 afforded by the internet and NEW POETRY Oor the transcedental sweetness of sacred ,biblical poetry a.Despite the latter 's special spiritual applications -their potency are also enhanced by poets annotationsand comments to simply and offer theoretical explanations of these archival literary sgacity.I dont think i dont love poetry -love poetry beyond the laughjing thighs  and joyfully playfully erotic poetry-common to all intellects globally...i hope internet time will permit these selected poems-personal,political,panergyric
  selected from my modest mind across the years-
  gbemi tijani mst 4 107 

   
  04/01/078.55pm
  selected poetry post by gbemi tijani mst
  personal,political,panergyric with love merely or possibly as part of the pedagogical impact or harvest of poetry on pupils,students,adults,poets,writers of poetry,reviewers,song writers ,musicians ,dramatists,performers etc
   
   
    Paralysis
  We could?ve buoyed you with banter
  Ha it been chloroform?s liniment is 
  Untreating you to sleep
  We could?ve agreed with Madame to nurse
  You with soap and camphor liniment
  Had it not been closely linked genes
  Interceded the cerebral pain...
  We could?ve given you literary math
  To detect alliterations had it not been
  You were admitted paraparetic

  Were you a known drunkard?
  There could have been no doubting Thomas
  In your diagnosis as the Sunday
  Morning paralysis typical of
  The Drunkard ?s arm
  Had it been you were awake 
  Often times we called at the East Ward
  We could?ve given liberty
  To your muscles in pyramidal control
  Sleep paralysis not wanted!
  That barrier shouldn?t come your way
  O friend poetic!
  You?ll be marvelous to your travail
  You?re a maverick in your trado-musings
  You should be master of your tears (if any more)
  You should be discharged near your
  Trigger-delight love lord
  Your pencil-half

   
  TIJANI-MST
  (for Niyi Osundare,East Ward 1987)
  *prof osundare ,poetry teacher,Katrina survivor has published ,lectured poetry worldwide,he survived an accident years back that provoked this piece .hes now at the U.of NEW ORLEANS
   
  Birds or shooting stars
 
  Who?
  Who will vaccinate African polity?
  Against autolysins by parasites
  Who?ll inject humane values?
  Against rhetorical manifestoes
  
  Can we know birds from the shooting stars? 
  Who?ll fertilize the Presidency Quest?
  Who?s breeding weeds in the federal garden of 1954?
  The gaga are still the denizen of the orchard since 1994
  Who?ll abate the nuisance of moneybags without civil conscience?
  Who are the environmentalists who?ll ensure?
  What manners of men are at the helm?
  Who?ll annul frivolity?
  
  Who?ll blame the trend regretted?
  Who calls for diarchy? Can we shut off
  All imperfections? Where?s the locus of power?
  Can we shift the elephant? 
  Can we dissect the anatomy and physiology?
  Of the frogs and their tadpoles?
  Any biorhythm with development yearnings?
  Who?ll perform governance? Who could harp
  To the populist dance? Never again amphibians -
  Animals with versatile lungs - 
  To rule as coup d?etat Breeds.
  
  We see the reckless race
  We feel the usual initial best.
  Can we also forget the
  Perennial worst

  Who?ll annul frivolity?
  It?s time for power see saw
  If by the harmattan we could tell
  By the dryness of the lips
  And the grasses and the drizzles-
  We find the worth of the rains
  If there?s time in our geological Canaan
  That distils and bazaar our crude oil
  Without coming to meet each folded fist
  It?s time for power see-saw
  Because of the gap between the rich and the poor

  Its time for rebirth in the posterity sense
  Its better to dally with angelic Maslow?s
  Theory of basic needs anointed with
  Boundless subsidies than the hilarity
  Of bread-alone windfall -as a lad, as a toiler
  As a citizen, as a consultant or as a contractor
  Waiting endlessly for fulfillment or settlement
  
  Who?ll sedate our haughty social libido?
  Sex is politics -I tell you!
  We must resist power fanatics
  We?re pregnant of certain barriers
  Can we know birds from shooting stars?
  They inhabit us. We must submit to God.
  
  We must stop the rat race
  We must annul frivolity

  
   
  TIJANI-MST
  
   
   
   
   
  Turtle shells and scapula bones
      I don?t want to be in love
  With a creative brick without
  Optical heart of the poet?s alignment
  I don?t want a wisdom shelter lacking.
  I don?t want to be in love
  With good housing without
  Beautiful garrets of books
  I don?t want to be in love 
  With living without reading.
  I don?t? want to be in love 
  Without the world treasury
  I don?t want to be an emperor 
  Who doesn?t love reading-
  I ?ll rather be a
  Kingpin of the poor
  Who waits with the winning 
  Wisdom of the humble

  I don?t want to be disciplined 
  Without the writing invention
  TIJANI MST
   
   
   
            A L I M E N T A T I O N [for open cargo] We 'We re here too, petrified By the road worm for stenciled notes Existing but not living Just breathing- For the tissues to respire Leaving the digestion To the desperate enzymes Saving the stories for energy crisis Don't groan - The great freedom will come Let your heart beat duly Feel the rhythm of the Senior Advocate The Sino-Auricular- Node, The Barrister of Biology Leave the stories to the sphinchter muscles And the nerves coordinating the colicky pains It does not matter their pile of stool weight As ultimate fertilizers - whether dropped at Nicon ,Meridien ,Premier or Diganga Must obey the law of gravity Don't forget that today is done Time however is immutable Delicately turn your hopes to this truth Whether the legal tender cares for everything Or its consciousness still echoes everywhere It does not matter -our eternity The great day will come Via supposedly the cheapest pool of immunity- the voters choice The
 great freedom will come Forever beyond the endless M i l i t a r y p r e s i d e n c y ... TIJANI MST
          
  .

   
  
new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote:
  Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

1. from Ed Roberts (Ed)
2. Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary Ashley
Townsend. (salia daman)
3. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Suzanne Burns)
4. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Suzanne Baran)
5. Ukrainian Poet's Head Is Found (JforJames at aol.com)
6. Fw: poetry book (Anny Ballardini)
7. Re: Fw: poetry book (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
8. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
9. Re: Fw: poetry book (Jeff Newberry)
10. Re: Fw: poetry book (JforJames at aol.com)
11. Re: Fw: poetry book (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
12. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Anny Ballardini)
13. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (JforJames at aol.com)
14. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Chris Stroffolino)
15. Re: Does Poetry Have A Social Function? (Joseph Duemer)
16. Re: Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary Ashley
Townsend. (Joseph Duemer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 12:09:12 -0600
From: "Ed" 
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts
To: 
Message-ID:
<20070103180917.XXWW4144.eastrmmtao05.cox.net at eastrmimpo01.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Does Poetry Have A Social Function?



The answer to this question is simple, yes.

I could show you what poetry can do if you'd like but I'm not sure there is
room here to do so.

Poetry can change a person's life.

In some cases it can save one's as well.

Poetry may not feed your mouth but it can reward your soul in ways you might
not even be able to imagine.



I started a project last year The Poetry For Life Project

www.thepoetryforlifeproject.com 

This is a tool I put together to help those who want to help others, yes,
with poetry.

I posted a few comments people have left on my main site in my MySpace blog

www.myspace.com/amayhem



If you get the chance please stop by, let me know what you think.

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 18:20:25 +0000
From: "salia daman" 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by
Mary Ashley Townsend.
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed


I came upon your website when I was in the quest for criticism on the poem 
'' The Credo'' by Mary Asley Townsend. I wish to receive informations about 
her literary movement and her religious and political tendency. How far has 
she been effective in the American women literary movement?
I give thanks in advance for your contibution to provide me with some 
resources in this regard.
I am looking forward to sending some comentary on this topic in the near 
future.
Thanks.
Salia.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger : appels gratuits de PC ? PC ! 
http://www.msn.fr/newhotmail/Default.asp?Ath=f



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:23:15 -0500
From: "Suzanne Burns" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
>
>
> So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> not?
>


My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,
considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."
Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry
reading? :-)

Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically. I have
to say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her question
(Im paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do more than
just be what it is?"

Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their
consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge part of
their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov here). They
want to change the world. Are they less as poets because they aren't
hermits on the mountaintop? Does being a hermit on the mountaintop have to
preclude changing the world?

On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite
recluse)? I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work.
Emily Bronte? Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking
at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.

So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or anti-social
as people are. That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.

Suzanne Burns
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:30:08 -0800
From: "Suzanne Baran" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"

Message-ID:
<2d5ffa0b0701031130j60f29ebt37e521079021c841 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Suzanne,
Beautifully written and well stated. I agree most with the sentiments about
Adrienne Rich.

--Suzanne Baran

On 1/3/07, Suzanne Burns wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/2/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > So does poetry have a social function? If so, why? If not, why
> > not?
> >
>
>
> My first thought was to be a terrible wise-ass in reply "Well Jim,
> considering how many young swains use poetry as a way to get laid...."
> Seriously: do we not hear the clinking of ice in glasses as yonder poetry
> reading? :-)
>
> Then I read the discussion, and thought about it less sardonically. I
> have to say I really loved Daisy Fried's contribution, especially her
> question (Im paraphrasing) "Why is it that poetry is expected to always do
> more than just be what it is?"
>
> Obviously there are plenty of poets who are deeply social in their
> consciousness, and the role theiy play in a community is a huge part of
> their vision (I'm thinking of Adrienne Rich and Denise Levertov here). They
> want to change the world. Are they less as poets because they aren't
> hermits on the mountaintop? Does being a hermit on the mountaintop have to
> preclude changing the world?
>
> On the other hand, what about Emily Dickinson (everybody's favorite
> recluse)? I don't see very much that I would call "social" in her work.
> Emily Bronte? Robinson Jeffers? Han-Shan? They are all rather like looking
> at "social" through the wrong end of a telescope.
>
> So I guess my answer would be that poetry is about as social or
> anti-social as people are. That's covers a pretty wide spectrum.
>
> Suzanne Burns
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much
as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. 
 Not to mention that most
terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude." - Walter Benjamin
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:22:31 EST
From: JforJames at aol.com
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ukrainian Poet's Head Is Found
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

_http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2007/01/02/statue-bronze.html_ 
(http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2007/01/02/statue-bronze.html) 

Stolen sculpture's head found at Ontario smelter
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 | 7:04 AM ET 
CBC News 

Days after a two-tonne, seven-metre-high bronze statue of a famous Ukrainian 
poet was reported stolen from a park in Oakville, Ont., its head has turned 
up at a nearby smelter.

The statue of Taras Shevchenko ??? a 19th-century artist and poet credited 
with establishing the modern Ukrainian literary language ??? was discovered 
missing on the weekend by two visitors to a 16-acre memorial park in North 
Oakville. Police believe it could have been stolen anytime between Dec. 15-31. 


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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:35:14 +0100
From: "Anny Ballardini" 
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
To: "New Poetry" 
Message-ID: <00c801c72f7f$0df72040$afeb3652 at ANNY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: aroona reejhsinghani 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: poetry book 


Dear friend,
Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the American biographical society as the most outstanding woman of the last century
The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of India which is a registered charitable trust,its an association of writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3 poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
With best of regards,
Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
Chairman and president authors association of india 
Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61 INDIA

Phones 91 022 26360224 91 022 9322247390


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:40:24 EST
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book 
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Congratulations Anny! ~Raven
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:50:06 EST
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


In a message dated 1/3/2007 11:30:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
screwzbaran at gmail.com writes:

Why is it that poetry is expected to always do more than just be what it 
is?" 



Suzanne, I wanted to say that I also enjoyed your take. I do not know a 
long list of poets but I think its fair to say that we can be marveled by a 
poets gift in magnifying language without a grand story to tell or a poets gift 
for content and its measure for human good. I think the loner on the hilltop 
might do both. ~Raven
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 16:54:34 -0500
From: "Jeff Newberry" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views"

Message-ID:
<731bb17a0701031354h506ccfe4ta417cab38bfb240c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Good Lord. This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry


On 1/3/07, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
> too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* aroona reejhsinghani
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
> *Subject:* poetry book
>
>
> Dear friend,
> Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona
> Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of
> records which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have
> also been congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by
> the American biographical society as the most outstanding woman of the
> last century
> The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association
> of India which is a registered charitable trust,its an association of
> writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3
> poetry books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out
> an international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in
> the book for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and
> rupees two thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your
> photo biodata and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers
> for reviewing and they are released at a big function where the function is
> covered by Tv and press,we would prin your poems along with your short
> biography and photograph,incase you are interested we would like to hear
> from you soon,please tell your friends about us or you can write about us in
> your newspapers so that others too come to know about us
> If you want to know more about me you can go on googles and type out my
> name,in a few seconds you will see me listed on numerous sites
> With best of regards,
> Mrs Aroona Reejhsinghani
> Chairman and president authors association of india
> Add 502 bwing leela apts opp gulmohur garden yaari road versova mumbai -61
> INDIA
>
> Phones 91 022 26360224 91 022 9322247390
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:07:47 EST
From: JforJames at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Jeff, cough up those two thousand rupees you've been saving
for a Monsoon day. No more hiding your light under
a cobra basket.
Finnegan

In a message dated 1/3/2007 4:55:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Good Lord. This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry


On 1/3/07, Anny Ballardini <_anny.ballardini at tin.it_ 
(mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it) > wrote: 

too tempting_ could not keep it for myself, see here:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: _aroona reejhsinghani_ (mailto:areejhsinghani at yahoo.com) 
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: poetry book 



Dear friend,
Before I proced further I must introduce myself,my name is Mrs Aroona 
Reejhsinghani I have written more then 200 books,I am in limca book of records 
which is equivalent to guiness book of world records in India,I have also been 
congratulated by guiness book of world records,I was nominated by the American 
biographical society as the most outstanding woman of the last century
The reason for writing to you is that I have founded Authors Association of 
India which is a registered charitable trust,its an association of 
writers,poets and journalists,it is five years old and we have brought out 3 poetry 
books in which fifty poets have participated,now we are bringing out an 
international anthology of poetry,we would be happy if you participate in the book 
for 5 pages we take rupees one thousand from Indian writers and rupees two 
thousands from writers from outside India, which includes your photo biodata 
and address these books are sent to all the major newspapers for reviewing







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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:32:06 EST
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: poetry book
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


In a message dated 1/3/2007 4:55:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Good Lord. This can't be serious.

Jeff Newberry




Not unless you've got 2,000 rupees.

In her defense, the woman who wrote to Anny actually HAS written at least 
150 books - and only 125 of them were cookbooks on Indian cuisine. (No mention 
was made on the subject matter of the remaining 25 and absolutely no 
information on any poetry books came to light but you gotta figure people are 
probably way more interested in eating than they are in reading.)

(Hey, what the hell - I'm home sick from work with nothing much to do other 
than find a good reason not to do laundry. Checking out her pro-offered 
credentials on behalf of everyone here seemed looked like a damn good reason to 
postpone real life.)

After all, there is 2,000 rupees at stake.

Lo
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 23:34:49 +0100
From: "Anny Ballardini" 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Does Poetry Have A Social Function?
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"

=== message truncated ===

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Jan  4 16:57:15 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:57:15 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ted Kooser
Message-ID: <005701c7304b$4c1e67d0$e4aa3452@ANNY>

American Life in Poetry: Column 093

BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006

Newborns begin life as natural poets, loving the sound of their own gurgles and coos. And, with the encouragement of parents and teachers, children can continue to write and enjoy poetry into their high school years and beyond. A group of elementary students in Detroit, Michigan, wrote poetry on the subject of what seashells might say if they could speak to us. I was especially charmed by Tatiana Ziglar's short poem, which alludes to the way in which poets learn to be attentive to the world. The inhabitants of the Poetry Palace pay attention, and by that earn the stories they receive.


Common Janthina

My shell said she likes the king and queen
of the Poetry Palace because they listen to her.
She tells them all the secrets of the ocean.

Reprinted by permission from "Shimmering Stars," Vol. IV, Spring, 2006, published by the InsideOut Literary Arts Project. Copyright (c) 2006 by the InsideOut Literary Arts Project. This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. This column does not accept unsolicited poetry.

******************************

American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a free weekly column  featuring contemporary American poems. The sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without alteration.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 17:22:55 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:22:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <200701042000.l04K0d8X004306@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bob Grumman wrote:
"I do think poetry has social functions, but so does
everything 
else--and it 
bothers me to hear poetry defended because it has
them.  One is 
invigorating 
the language, a second breaking people free from
settled outlooks.  
Among 
others."

Bob,
Agreed: no need for apologies, ironic or not. But the
above statement seems to me to illustrate my point,
after a fashion: in the sense that your variety of the
art for art's sake position assumes that no specific
"function" should be given to art for the same reasons
I suggested in re "committed" art (of which the
lefty/Puritan "moralism" you allude to is one variety,
I suppose), i.e. the limiting or stifling
prescriptions such "functions" inevitably cast (like a
pall) over artistic production. 
Here, it seems to me, are some of the various
"functions" your post suggests to me for poetry,
besides the "social" (whatever we mean by that):
-- "musical" or decorative (some would say lack of
function, call it what you like -- this is a
problematic one, I'd say)
-- critical ("breaking people free from settled
outlooks")
-- linguistic ("invigorating the language" suggests
renewal, contribution to transforming language?
Reminds me of Ponge -- would like to hear more).
-- telling the truth? something like that.

What I think is so interesting in all of these various
things is that I don't think they jive that well with
the purest articulations of art for art's sake. Which
might not exist in the first place, ultimately. In
fact, I think the notions of "Formalism" and "Art for
art's sake" may be most problematic because they
suggest homogeneity where there is a great deal of
difference (compare Gautier to Mallarme, then compare
to Valery). In short, there isn't *an* art for art's
sake -- there are many.
I agree strongly that "defending" poetry because of
its "social function" is misguided and, in the worst
cases, irritating. Such functions -- and, I would
argue, many "functions" of art -- are something like
natural or even inevitable consequences of artistic
production: the *result* of artistic production, not
its "cause" or "source". I think it's important to
distinguish the poetic from the esthetic: when we
read, we do look for function (among other things!),
like it or not -- but I don't think that should
necessarily be the case when we write. I like to think
of art for art's sake as a very useful (or even
crucial) fantasy, a liberating one from the artist's
perspective. When, I read, on the other hand, I look
for: truth, beauty, music, spirit, -- and, I might
add, specific moral perspectives, since, as a reader,
I find, say, certain fascist positions very offensive.
Would you suggest that such positions (which relate to
the "function" of a text) don't interfere or play a
part in esthetic response? And can you find me a text
that doesn't involve moral "positions" like these, and
that can be reduced to "music"?
Once again, I don't think we're disagreeing, but
personally, I enjoy debating the terms of these
questions. Thanks for the food for thought, Bob.
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Jan  4 17:45:46 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:45:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c101c73052$15319150$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Alex, I'm really busy now, so can't say much back to you on this always 
interestingly complicated issue.  I just have a question: what is the 
function of music?

--Bob G. 




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Jan  4 18:21:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:21:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<00c101c73052$15319150$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <009801c73057$1b92ec10$e4aa3452@ANNY>

What is the function of a gift?

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:45 PM


> Alex, I'm really busy now, so can't say much back to you on this always 
> interestingly complicated issue.  I just have a question: what is the 
> function of music?
> 
> --Bob G. 
> 




From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 19:18:14 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:18:14 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
Message-ID: <d12.3750989.32cef346@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/4/2007 3:22:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

What is  the function of a gift?



Inspiration
 ~raven
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 20:02:53 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:02:53 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ted Kooser
In-Reply-To: <005701c7304b$4c1e67d0$e4aa3452@ANNY>
References: <005701c7304b$4c1e67d0$e4aa3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <648208b60701041702w3b93af88g868934e8fe0199cb@mail.gmail.com>

"Newborns begin life as natural poets, loving the sound of their own
gurgles and coos."  He really wrote that?  Yep, I guess he really did.

- Jim

On 1/4/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
> American Life in Poetry: Column 093
>
> BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006
>
> Newborns begin life as natural poets, loving the sound of their own gurgles
> and coos. And, with the encouragement of parents and teachers, children can
> continue to write and enjoy poetry into their high school years and beyond.
> A group of elementary students in Detroit, Michigan, wrote poetry on the
> subject of what seashells might say if they could speak to us. I was
> especially charmed by Tatiana Ziglar's short poem, which alludes to the way
> in which poets learn to be attentive to the world. The inhabitants of the
> Poetry Palace pay attention, and by that earn the stories they receive.
>
>
> Common Janthina
>
> My shell said she likes the king and queen
> of the Poetry Palace because they listen to her.
> She tells them all the secrets of the ocean.
>
> Reprinted by permission from "Shimmering Stars," Vol. IV, Spring, 2006,
> published by the InsideOut Literary Arts Project. Copyright (c) 2006 by the
> InsideOut Literary Arts Project. This weekly column is supported by The
> Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at
> the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. This column does not accept unsolicited
> poetry.
>
> ******************************
>
> American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a
> free weekly column  featuring contemporary American poems. The sole mission
> of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry seeks to
> create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are no costs for
> reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your publication
> here and that the text of the column be reproduced without alteration.
>
>  ________________________________
>
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From chris.lott at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 20:27:41 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:27:41 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <d12.3750989.32cef346@aol.com>
References: <d12.3750989.32cef346@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701041727h763a008fr8a666090c0f2e87b@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Rebuketheworld at aol.com <Rebuketheworld at aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/4/2007 3:22:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:
> What is the function of a gift?
>
>
> Inspiration
>  ~raven

Depends on the gift. And the function might only be for the giver...

c


From chris.lott at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 20:40:56 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:40:56 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200701042000.l04K0d8X004306@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701041740q7343e436j8732ccaed0beedc1@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Alexander Dickow <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> In short, there isn't *an* art for art's
> sake -- there are many.

Or maybe there is but one ideal that all strive for in some way,  but
none can attain fully.

c


From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 20:49:36 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:49:36 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
Message-ID: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/4/2007 5:28:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
chris.lott at gmail.com writes:

Depends  on the gift. And the function might only be for the  giver...



True! ~Raven
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From poesis at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 20:54:24 2007
From: poesis at gmail.com (Elizabeth Switaj)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 20:54:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>

A gift is an expression of power-- social, economic, or otherwise.  This is
not necessarily negative.  Love is a sort of power.

Elizabeth Kate Switaj
http://qassandra.livejournal.com/
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From duemer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  4 21:42:57 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 21:42:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary
	Ashley Tow...
In-Reply-To: <c97.6014e3d.32ce989e@aol.com>
References: <c97.6014e3d.32ce989e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701041842p66054bbfqc536b31ba72ea7ca@mail.gmail.com>

That first stanza is really, really creepy. And that stuff about the grape
in the penultimate stanza is pretty freaking weird too. When this query
first hit the list I did a Google search & read a few of MAT's poems, but I
didn't find this little masterpiece of of the Gothic unconscious. There is a
breathtaking bourgeois failure of self-awareness in MAT's poems. Interesting
psychological study, maybe. Poetry, not so much. I stand by my original
judgment.


On 1/4/07, LauraHeidy at aol.com <LauraHeidy at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  In a message dated 1/4/2007 10:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>
> Anyone have this poem 'Credo' or 'Creed' to post?
> Finnegan
>
>  CREED
> Mary Ashley Townsend
>
> I believe if I should die,
> And you should kiss my eyelids when I lie
> Cold, dead, and dumb to all the world contains,
> The folded orbs would open at thy breath,
> And, from its exile in the isles of death,
> Life would come gladly back along my veins.
>
> I believe if I were dead,
> And you upon my lifeless heart should tread,
> Not knowing what the poor clod chanced to be,
> It would find sudden pulse beneath the touch
> Of him it ever loved in life so much,
> And throb again--warm, tender, true to thee.
>
> I believe if on my grave,
> Hidden in woody depths or by the wave,
> Your eyes should drop some warm tears of regret,
> From every salty seed of your dear grief
> Some fair, sweet blossom would leap into leaf
> To prove death could not make my love forget.
>
> I believe if I should fade,
> Into those mystic realms where light is made,
> And you should long once more my face to see,
> I would come forth upon the hill of night
> And gather stars, like fagots, till thy sight,
> Led by their beacon blaze, fell full on me.
>
> I believe my faith in thee,
> Strong as my life, so nobly placed to be,
> I would as soon expect to see the sun
> Fall like a dead king from his height sublime,
> His glory stricken from the throne of time,
> As thee unworthy the worship thou hast won.
>
> I believe who hath not loved
> Hath half the sweetness of his life unproved;
> Like one who, with the grape within his grasp,
> Drops it with all its crimson juices unpressed,
> And all its luscious sweetness left unguessed,
> Out from his careless and unheeding clasp.
>
> I believe love, pure and true,
> Is to the soul a sweet, immortal dew
> That gems life's petals in its hours of dusk.
> The waiting angels see and recognize
> The rich crown jewel, Love, of Paradise
> When life falls from us like a withered husk
>
> Angela Boewdeker reciting "Creed'" by Mary Ashley Townsend<http://fp.uni.edu/halgedah/seminar_participants/boedeker.htm>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 23:25:33 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:25:33 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by Mary
	Ashley Tow...
Message-ID: <bf5.d08ec87.32cf2d3d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/4/2007 6:43:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
duemer at gmail.com writes:

That  first stanza is really, really creepy.


I can appreciate those eerie bittersweet love warping's.   I wasn't very 
impressed or moved by the poem Creed but I did enjoy these  lines- 
 
 
Cold, dead, and dumb to all the world contains,
The folded orbs would  open at thy breath,
And, from its exile in the isles of death,
Life would  come gladly back along my veins.



That gems life's petals in its hours of dusk.
 
 
~raven

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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 03:11:02 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:11:02 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701050011n7912991fh3ecfad76c3d6f0fb@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/4/07, Elizabeth Switaj <poesis at gmail.com> wrote:
> A gift is an expression of power-- social, economic, or otherwise.  This is
> not necessarily negative.  Love is a sort of power.

We are drifting perilously close to Spivak and Derrida and much
horrific wrangling about gifts :)

c


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 06:55:02 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:55:02 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

What is the function of love?

Respectfully,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch 
Classic Poetry  
Poetry at Suite101.com  
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  
History at BellaOnline.com  

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Elizabeth Switaj 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 7:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake


  A gift is an expression of power-- social, economic, or otherwise.  This is not necessarily negative.  Love is a sort of power.

  Elizabeth Kate Switaj
  http://qassandra.livejournal.com/ 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 08:45:08 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:45:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  What is the function of love?
>


Errm, well Love brings us together both both individually and communally,
makes people seek out and cherish emotional bonds and think about the
wellbeing of others, which, I think it is fair to say, contributes to
overall human happiness, security, and survival in a very harsh and
threatening world.  Scientists have found that it actually serves a very
real biological function-- the body works better and stays healthier if the
person inside that body has close emotional ties. Babies who are not held
and play with die.  Etc. etc. etc.

There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all,
agreed.  My appendix, for example.  Love comes in handy.  So does poetry--
it keeps me relatively sane.  Hey, isn't that useful?

I haven't been following every part of this thread, but I've been thinking a
lot this week about Dickinson, and my initial suggest that she was not
social in her poetry due to her being very hermit-like.  However reserved
and cryptic she was, she called her poems her "letter to the world", and
clearly her poetry served a social purpose for her (however strange it might
be to most people of her time).

Isn't the very act of putting a word down on paper for posterity social?
Doesn't writing anything at all presume that somewhere, somehow, someone is
going to read what you have written and perhaps care?  I am thinking about
that scene in V ffor Vendetta when Evie discovers Valerie's letter, written
on toilet paper and hidden in a rathole.  These efforts are  never useless
or without any purpose at all.  Unless you live in a complete vacuum (who
does?) there is going to be a social element in there somewhere.

Suzanne Burns



-- 
"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style."

--Quentin Crisp
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From cralan at wordsinhere.com  Fri Jan  5 09:16:05 2007
From: cralan at wordsinhere.com (cralan kelder)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:16:05 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] longhouse poetry 35 year bibliography
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1C41C35.3BAC6%cralan@wordsinhere.com>

hello All, 

have been reading with interest for a month or so, thought I would introduce
myself, 
greetings from amsterdam,

and share this interesting link below which details the 35 year evolution of
an original backwoods press
(disclaimer: i have something out by longhouse,
but this bibliography kicks in about a month after i was born,
and gives you something of a look in the kitchen of american poetry);

Longhouse Bibliography from 1971 - 2006 is now online, complete with
the editor Bob Arnold's annotations and a galaxy of title cover
images.

Please visit!

Begin with the Longhouse Bibliography Part One 1971 - 1989

http://www.LonghousePoetry.com/bibliography1.html

And continue with Longhouse Bibliography Part Two 1990 - 2006

http://www.LonghousePoetry.com/bibliography2.html

A note to web-viewers: those with dial-up service only --  including
us here at Longhouse!  --  this may take longer than normal for
download.  Hang in there.

------

Poetry & More! available at

Bob & Susan Arnold
Longhouse, Publishers & Booksellers
1604 River Road
Guilford, Vermont 05301

our web-site:   http://www.LonghousePoetry.com

See Doubles, Wish to Add A Friend to the List or Be Removed ? Please
E-mail us. Thanks!

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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 09:32:35 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:32:35 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com><ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com><002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Suzanne Burns wrote: 
>There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all, agreed.

No, I do not agree.  A thing can have a use or purpose that might not yet have been discovered by humanity.  I assume everything in existence has a purpose; just because I don't know what it is doesn't diminish that purpose.

As you were delineating your list of functions for love, I couldn't help note that many, if not most of them, could be applied to poetry--that is unless one were of the ilk that discounts any use or purpose at all for art.

Actually, my original question was offered in response to Elizabeth Kate Switaj's  "A gift is an expression of power-- social, economic, or otherwise.  This is not necessarily negative.  Love is a sort of power."  I think a response with these claims in focus would have taken into account her remark about love being a sort of power, not necessarily negative, but perhaps a little bit negative like the gift when it is an expression of social, economic, or otherwise power.  So I do accept your claims for the function of love as valid, if not directly on topic.

Respectfully,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch 
Classic Poetry  
Poetry at Suite101.com  
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  
History at BellaOnline.com  


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Suzanne Burns 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake





  On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
    What is the function of love?


  Errm, well Love brings us together both both individually and communally, makes people seek out and cherish emotional bonds and think about the wellbeing of others, which, I think it is fair to say, contributes to overall human happiness, security, and survival in a very harsh and threatening world.  Scientists have found that it actually serves a very real biological function-- the body works better and stays healthier if the person inside that body has close emotional ties. Babies who are not held and play with die.  Etc. etc. etc. 

  There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all, agreed.  My appendix, for example.  Love comes in handy.  So does poetry-- it keeps me relatively sane.  Hey, isn't that useful?

  I haven't been following every part of this thread, but I've been thinking a lot this week about Dickinson, and my initial suggest that she was not social in her poetry due to her being very hermit-like.  However reserved and cryptic she was, she called her poems her "letter to the world", and clearly her poetry served a social purpose for her (however strange it might be to most people of her time).  

  Isn't the very act of putting a word down on paper for posterity social?  Doesn't writing anything at all presume that somewhere, somehow, someone is going to read what you have written and perhaps care?  I am thinking about that scene in V ffor Vendetta when Evie discovers Valerie's letter, written on toilet paper and hidden in a rathole.  These efforts are  never useless or without any purpose at all.  Unless you live in a complete vacuum (who does?) there is going to be a social element in there somewhere. 

  Suzanne Burns





  -- 
  "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." 

  --Quentin Crisp 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Fri Jan  5 09:46:28 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:46:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com><00c101c73052$15319150$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009801c73057$1b92ec10$e4aa3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <002601c730d8$48a65d00$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Marilyn Nelson put this nicely to a student once, who complained, "I don't 
get what this poem is about."

"Did you go home for Thanksgiving? See your family?"

"Yes."

"What's your mother about?"


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake


> What is the function of a gift?
>
> From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:45 PM
>
>
>> Alex, I'm really busy now, so can't say much back to you on this always 
>> interestingly complicated issue.  I just have a question: what is the 
>> function of music?
>>
>> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From tad at opus40.org  Fri Jan  5 09:53:28 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:53:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by
	MaryAshley Tow...
References: <c97.6014e3d.32ce989e@aol.com>
	<e8b111d70701041842p66054bbfqc536b31ba72ea7ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009101c730d9$4312a3c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

The second line would be a classic example, for one's intro to crewri classes, in how not to use an enjambment, would it not?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Duemer 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views 
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Request for a criticism of '' the Credo'' by MaryAshley Tow...


  That first stanza is really, really creepy. And that stuff about the grape in the penultimate stanza is pretty freaking weird too. When this query first hit the list I did a Google search & read a few of MAT's poems, but I didn't find this little masterpiece of of the Gothic unconscious. There is a breathtaking bourgeois failure of self-awareness in MAT's poems. Interesting psychological study, maybe. Poetry, not so much. I stand by my original judgment. 



  On 1/4/07, LauraHeidy at aol.com <LauraHeidy at aol.com> wrote: 
    In a message dated 1/4/2007 10:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes:
      Anyone have this poem 'Credo' or 'Creed' to post?
      Finnegan
    CREED
    Mary Ashley Townsend 

    I believe if I should die,
    And you should kiss my eyelids when I lie
    Cold, dead, and dumb to all the world contains,
    The folded orbs would open at thy breath,
    And, from its exile in the isles of death,
    Life would come gladly back along my veins.
     
    I believe if I were dead,
    And you upon my lifeless heart should tread,
    Not knowing what the poor clod chanced to be,
    It would find sudden pulse beneath the touch
    Of him it ever loved in life so much,
    And throb again--warm, tender, true to thee.

    I believe if on my grave,
    Hidden in woody depths or by the wave,
    Your eyes should drop some warm tears of regret,
    From every salty seed of your dear grief
    Some fair, sweet blossom would leap into leaf
    To prove death could not make my love forget.

    I believe if I should fade,
    Into those mystic realms where light is made,
    And you should long once more my face to see,
    I would come forth upon the hill of night
    And gather stars, like fagots, till thy sight,
    Led by their beacon blaze, fell full on me.

    I believe my faith in thee,
    Strong as my life, so nobly placed to be,
    I would as soon expect to see the sun
    Fall like a dead king from his height sublime,
    His glory stricken from the throne of time,
    As thee unworthy the worship thou hast won.

    I believe who hath not loved
    Hath half the sweetness of his life unproved;
    Like one who, with the grape within his grasp,
    Drops it with all its crimson juices unpressed,
    And all its luscious sweetness left unguessed,
    Out from his careless and unheeding clasp.

    I believe love, pure and true,
    Is to the soul a sweet, immortal dew
    That gems life's petals in its hours of dusk.
    The waiting angels see and recognize
    The rich crown jewel, Love, of Paradise
    When life falls from us like a withered husk

    Angela Boewdeker reciting "Creed'" by Mary Ashley Townsend 

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






  -- 
  Joseph Duemer
  Professor of Humanities
  Clarkson University
  [sharpsand.net ] 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 09:59:29 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:59:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Suzanne Burns wrote:
> >There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all,
> agreed.
>
> No, I do not agree.  A thing can have a use or purpose that might not yet
> have been discovered by humanity.  I assume everything in existence has a
> purpose; just because I don't know what it is doesn't diminish that purpose.
>

I beg to differ.  The appendix, for example, is completely useless and has
been for several eons, and the structure of a horse's ankle not only serves
no purpose, it makes the poor horse very vulnerable and likely to be
injured.

I agree that things can have a use that isn't obvious (or at the very least
can be put to use by an enterprising mind) but I categorically reject the
idea of "intelligent design"-- i.e., that everything that exists must do so
for some kind of higher purpose or plan of any kind.  Nope.  Just don't
believe it.  Frankly I think human beings are the most useless species of
all-- the planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine
without us. I could go on.

All that said, I believe in the power of love, but I don't think it was
"created" with a purpose so that we can exist and thrive.  Rather I believe
rather that we exist and continue to thrive largely *because* we are capable
of love, and that the depth of our connection to one another has evolved as
a direct consequence our continued survival.  Which by the way is amazing
and wonderful. We are here largely because we love.  If we didn't love, we
would have died out and ceased to exist long ago.

This is complex....

My two bits.

Suzanne Burns
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 10:02:30 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:02:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <002601c730d8$48a65d00$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <495433.74961.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<00c101c73052$15319150$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009801c73057$1b92ec10$e4aa3452@ANNY>
	<002601c730d8$48a65d00$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050702k20b8e24fxc8704cfc0ec0dff7@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
> Marilyn Nelson put this nicely to a student once, who complained, "I don't
> get what this poem is about."
>
> "Did you go home for Thanksgiving? See your family?"
>
> "Yes."
>
> "What's your mother about?"



Ha!  I could see here saying that!  But of course I could answer that with
many paragraphs about what my high-spirited Italian mother  is about-- as a
writer though, I would never presume that the reader already knows what I
know, and that of course is the point when someone says "I don't know what
this is about."

I digress....

:-)

Suzanne
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 10:26:47 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:26:47 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com><ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com><002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue><aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com><008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

You say:
"Frankly I think human beings are the most useless species of all-- the planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine without us. I could go on."

If we are the most useless species of all, then love is bad, because according to you, it helps us continue to exist.  According to this philosophy, it would seem that you would feel the best thing you could do to help the plant would be to commit suicide, or better yet, commit suicide while taking some of us other useless beings with you.

Respectfully,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch 
Classic Poetry  
Poetry at Suite101.com  
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  
History at BellaOnline.com  



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Suzanne Burns 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake





  On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
    Suzanne Burns wrote: 
    >There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all, agreed.

    No, I do not agree.  A thing can have a use or purpose that might not yet have been discovered by humanity.  I assume everything in existence has a purpose; just because I don't know what it is doesn't diminish that purpose.

  I beg to differ.  The appendix, for example, is completely useless and has been for several eons, and the structure of a horse's ankle not only serves no purpose, it makes the poor horse very vulnerable and likely to be injured. 

  I agree that things can have a use that isn't obvious (or at the very least can be put to use by an enterprising mind) but I categorically reject the idea of "intelligent design"-- i.e., that everything that exists must do so for some kind of higher purpose or plan of any kind.  Nope.  Just don't believe it.  Frankly I think human beings are the most useless species of all-- the planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine without us. I could go on. 

  All that said, I believe in the power of love, but I don't think it was "created" with a purpose so that we can exist and thrive.  Rather I believe rather that we exist and continue to thrive largely *because* we are capable of love, and that the depth of our connection to one another has evolved as a direct consequence our continued survival.  Which by the way is amazing and wonderful. We are here largely because we love.  If we didn't love, we would have died out and ceased to exist long ago. 

  This is complex....

  My two bits.

  Suzanne Burns
   




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 10:31:43 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:31:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050731x21be29b0t722f85895c676e03@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  You say:
> "Frankly I think human beings are the most useless species of all-- the
> planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine without us.
> I could go on."
>
> If we are the most useless species of all, then love is bad.
>


No.  "useless"  does not necessarily mean "bad".  You are attaching moral
meanigns where they do not naturally exist, which is your subjective
feeling.

My appendix is not bad.  Its just there.  It also serves no purpose.  Do you
understand?

Suzanne
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 10:37:45 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:37:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050737w9cde08fseb7ebbd01f0a0059@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> According to this philosophy, it would seem that you would feel the best
> thing you could do to help the plant would be to commit suicide, or better
> yet, commit suicide while taking some of us other useless beings with you.
>


Also no.  Ackowledging that human beings are of little use to the planet is
not the same as advocating our destruction. Committing suicide would not
have any affect at all on a plant or the polar ice caps-- its an implausible
suggestion.  Living responsibly, reproducing less, and taking up less space
and fewer resources, on the other hand, would be a good start, but that of
course gets off topic.

But of course many people who believe that the world is created by God for
our use and purpose also  believe in the horn of plenty model-- resources
are endless, God will always provide, and our existance is central to the
plan.  Completely sentimental, ascientific, and unsupportable, I think.
Once again, though, off topic.

Suzanne
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan  5 10:40:28 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:40:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com><ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com><002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue><aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com><008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b301c730df$d38138d0$b0af3252@ANNY>

Nice bits
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Suzanne Burns 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake





  On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
    Suzanne Burns wrote: 
    >There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all, agreed.

    No, I do not agree.  A thing can have a use or purpose that might not yet have been discovered by humanity.  I assume everything in existence has a purpose; just because I don't know what it is doesn't diminish that purpose.

  I beg to differ.  The appendix, for example, is completely useless and has been for several eons, and the structure of a horse's ankle not only serves no purpose, it makes the poor horse very vulnerable and likely to be injured. 

  I agree that things can have a use that isn't obvious (or at the very least can be put to use by an enterprising mind) but I categorically reject the idea of "intelligent design"-- i.e., that everything that exists must do so for some kind of higher purpose or plan of any kind.  Nope.  Just don't believe it.  Frankly I think human beings are the most useless species of all-- the planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine without us. I could go on. 

  All that said, I believe in the power of love, but I don't think it was "created" with a purpose so that we can exist and thrive.  Rather I believe rather that we exist and continue to thrive largely *because* we are capable of love, and that the depth of our connection to one another has evolved as a direct consequence our continued survival.  Which by the way is amazing and wonderful. We are here largely because we love.  If we didn't love, we would have died out and ceased to exist long ago. 

  This is complex....

  My two bits.

  Suzanne Burns
   


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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 10:53:46 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:53:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <00b301c730df$d38138d0$b0af3252@ANNY>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<00b301c730df$d38138d0$b0af3252@ANNY>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050753vae8f450m6542d97f9e080992@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
>  Nice bits
>


I'm rather fond of my bits.  *rimshot*  :-)

Sorry, couldn't let that one go!

Suzanne Burns
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 11:07:13 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:07:13 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com><ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com><002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue><aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com><008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue><aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com><002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050737w9cde08fseb7ebbd01f0a0059@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009d01c730e3$90967f40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

"the planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine without us."

"Committing suicide would not have any affect at all on a plant or the polar ice caps"

So the planet and ice caps are just fine with as well as without us.   I see.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Suzanne Burns 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 9:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake





  On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:


    According to this philosophy, it would seem that you would feel the best thing you could do to help the plant would be to commit suicide, or better yet, commit suicide while taking some of us other useless beings with you.


  Also no.  Ackowledging that human beings are of little use to the planet is not the same as advocating our destruction. Committing suicide would not have any affect at all on a plant or the polar ice caps-- its an implausible suggestion.  Living responsibly, reproducing less, and taking up less space and fewer resources, on the other hand, would be a good start, but that of course gets off topic. 

  But of course many people who believe that the world is created by God for our use and purpose also  believe in the horn of plenty model-- resources are endless, God will always provide, and our existance is central to the plan.  Completely sentimental, ascientific, and unsupportable, I think.  Once again, though, off topic. 

  Suzanne





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 11:27:42 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:27:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <009d01c730e3$90967f40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050737w9cde08fseb7ebbd01f0a0059@mail.gmail.com>
	<009d01c730e3$90967f40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050827vf8e22b1k5362db3f2b869f6a@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  "the planet (to say nothing of the polar ice caps) would be just fine
> without us."
>
> "Committing suicide would not have any affect at all on a plant or the
> polar ice caps"
>
> So the planet and ice caps are just fine with as well as without us.   I
> see.
>

No.  That is not what I said, thank you.

I said that mass suicide of all human beings is completely implausible and
not a realistic solution-- its hard enough convincing people to stop driving
SUVs, for heavens sake (warning: I say this facetiously)-- and also would
not reverse the damage we have already done.  Our presence on this planet
and our senseless consumption is the reason why the icecaps are in
danger---  Suicide however will not save them. I am terribly sorry that you
have to reduce this to such an absurdist and unimaginative position.

Increasing death is like trying to bail out a sinking boat without plugging
the leak. People are flooding in twice as fast as they're bailing out.
Shortening an existing person's life by a few decades doesn't avoid or
change the damage of many years of human impact.  I would suggest rather
that we have a responsibility to help the world as much as we're able before
we die. Leaving the work for others to do would be irresponsible.

Got that?

Acknowledging that the planet would be just fine without us and that we are
not the center of all creation and in fact have done a lot of damage does
not mean that suicide is the best and most reasonable solution.  Its
reality:  We are parasites.  We are not here for a noble reason.  We have
done more harm than good. Ice caps, lions, tigers, and bears actually would
really and truly be just fine without us.  Seriously:  you are not a special
flower. You are a blip on the radar.  So where do you go from here?  If
suicide is the only thing you can come up with, I am sorryu.

We are here, and since we are here we can use our imaginations and at the
very least find ways to make ourselves more useful-- or at the very least
less destructive.

Pontificatingly,

Suzanne
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 11:51:22 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:51:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701050827vf8e22b1k5362db3f2b869f6a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d19.18759b2.32cf08b0@aol.com>
	<ab206a080701041754w1fd2564fie49ebb12b6b8e847@mail.gmail.com>
	<002d01c730c0$55e95e80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050545n45134cdwcd4970f62e0342b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050659g79294ae3l302a4a124dba11dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801c730dd$eade2080$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050737w9cde08fseb7ebbd01f0a0059@mail.gmail.com>
	<009d01c730e3$90967f40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<aa458fec0701050827vf8e22b1k5362db3f2b869f6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050851k52e70cb1y7d5e203addcad8f2@mail.gmail.com>

And for a little note of levity on this subject, since we have fully
careened off topic anyway, I present:

The Stork is a Bird of War, by the ever delightful animation artist Nina
Paley.

http://clusterfunction.com/video/ninapaleydotcom/Stork/StorkFinalSorensen.mov

Bon appetite!



Cackle,

Suzanne
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Fri Jan  5 12:24:46 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:24:46 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <007101c730ee$6b3abdf0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Tangent: This past semester I got a chance to read Robinson Jeffers
extensively. His views are close to those under discussion and his poetry is
stunning.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Sue Grimes
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:33 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake

 

Suzanne Burns wrote: 

>There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all,
agreed.

 

No, I do not agree.  A thing can have a use or purpose that might not yet
have been discovered by humanity.  I assume everything in existence has a
purpose; just because I don't know what it is doesn't diminish that purpose.

 

As you were delineating your list of functions for love, I couldn't help
note that many, if not most of them, could be applied to poetry--that is
unless one were of the ilk that discounts any use or purpose at all for art.

 

Actually, my original question was offered in response to Elizabeth Kate
Switaj's  "A gift is an expression of power-- social, economic, or
otherwise.  This is not necessarily negative.  Love is a sort of power."  I
think a response with these claims in focus would have taken into account
her remark about love being a sort of power, not necessarily negative, but
perhaps a little bit negative like the gift when it is an expression of
social, economic, or otherwise power.  So I do accept your claims for the
function of love as valid, if not directly on topic.

 

Respectfully,

Linda Sue

_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch 

Classic Poetry  

Poetry at Suite101.com  
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  

History at BellaOnline.com  

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Suzanne Burns <mailto:queenmouse at gmail.com>  

To: NewPoetry: <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>  Contemporary Poetry News
&amp,Views 

Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:45 AM

Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake

 

 

On 1/5/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote: 

What is the function of love?



Errm, well Love brings us together both both individually and communally,
makes people seek out and cherish emotional bonds and think about the
wellbeing of others, which, I think it is fair to say, contributes to
overall human happiness, security, and survival in a very harsh and
threatening world.  Scientists have found that it actually serves a very
real biological function-- the body works better and stays healthier if the
person inside that body has close emotional ties. Babies who are not held
and play with die.  Etc. etc. etc. 

There are some useless things in this world that serve no purpose at all,
agreed.  My appendix, for example.  Love comes in handy.  So does poetry--
it keeps me relatively sane.  Hey, isn't that useful?

I haven't been following every part of this thread, but I've been thinking a
lot this week about Dickinson, and my initial suggest that she was not
social in her poetry due to her being very hermit-like.  However reserved
and cryptic she was, she called her poems her "letter to the world", and
clearly her poetry served a social purpose for her (however strange it might
be to most people of her time).  

Isn't the very act of putting a word down on paper for posterity social?
Doesn't writing anything at all presume that somewhere, somehow, someone is
going to read what you have written and perhaps care?  I am thinking about
that scene in V ffor Vendetta when Evie discovers Valerie's letter, written
on toilet paper and hidden in a rathole.  These efforts are  never useless
or without any purpose at all.  Unless you live in a complete vacuum (who
does?) there is going to be a social element in there somewhere. 

Suzanne Burns

 



-- 
"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style." 

--Quentin Crisp 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 12:33:56 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:33:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
In-Reply-To: <007101c730ee$6b3abdf0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <008f01c730d6$58aa2a30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<007101c730ee$6b3abdf0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050933peefc5f1rfa526df1f0d93e53@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Skip Fox <skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:
>
>  Tangent: This past semester I got a chance to read Robinson Jeffers
> extensively. His views are close to those under discussion and his poetry is
> stunning.
>
Whooaaa, yes.  Now that I think of it, I need to get his collected works.
Like, NOW.

Hayden Carruth really loved Jeffers and assigned a lot of his poems in the
classes I took at SU.  He is known as an icon of the environmental
movement.

"A severed hand
Is an ugly thing and man dissevered from the earth and stars
and his history... for contemplation or in fact...
Often appears atrociously ugly. Integrity is wholeness,
the greatest beauty is
Organic wholeness, the wholeness of life and things, the divine beauty
of the universe. Love that, not man
Apart from that, or else you will share man's pitiful confusions,
or drown in despair when his days darken."

Or maybe:

"Why does insanity always twist the great answers? Because only tormented
persons want truth.
Man is an animal like other animals, wants food and success and women, not
truth. Only if the mind Tortured by some interior tension has despaired of
happiness: then it hates its life-cage and seeks further, And finds, if it
is powerful enough. But instantly the private agony that made the search
Muddles the finding. Then search for truth is foredoomed and frustrate? Only
stained fragments? Until the mind has turned its love from itself and man,
from parts to the whole."

Or my favorite quote:

"Pleasure is the carrot dangled to lead the ass to market; or the
precipice."


Suzanne
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 12:38:25 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:38:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hurt Hawks, Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701050938h62d4ac9bh5f87040f8ae6944a@mail.gmail.com>

(Just because I would rather be doing anything right now  other than this
release bulletin I am supposed to be working on....)

Hurt Hawks by Robinson Jeffers
 I

The broken pillar of the wing jags from the clotted shoulder,
The wing trails like a banner in defeat,

No more to use the sky forever but live with famine
And pain a few days: cat nor coyote
Will shorten the week of waiting for death, there is game without talons.

He stands under the oak-bush and waits
The lame feet of salvation; at night he remembers freedom
And flies in a dream, the dawns ruin it.

He is strong and pain is worse to the strong, incapacity is worse.
The curs of the day come and torment him
At distance, no one but death the redeemer will humble that head,

The intrepid readiness, the terrible eyes.
The wild God of the world is sometimes merciful to those
That ask mercy, not often to the arrogant.

You do not know him, you communal people, or you have forgotten him;
Intemperate and savage, the hawk remembers him;
Beautiful and wild, the hawks, and men that are dying, remember him.

II

I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk;
but the great redtail
Had nothing left but unable misery
>From the bone too shattered for mending, the wing that trailed under his
talons when he moved.

We had fed him six weeks, I gave him freedom,
He wandered over the foreland hill and returned in the evening, asking for
death,
Not like a beggar, still eyed with the old
Implacable arrogance.

I gave him the lead gift in the twilight.
What fell was relaxed, Owl-downy, soft feminine feathers; but what
Soared: the fierce rush: the night-herons by the flooded river cried fear at
its rising
Before it was quite unsheathed from reality.
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 13:27:00 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:27:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hurt Hawks, Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701050938h62d4ac9bh5f87040f8ae6944a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aa458fec0701050938h62d4ac9bh5f87040f8ae6944a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701051027v4c43256fn36aef2f8dbda29b9@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for posting this Suzanne.  I've always loved Jeffers, though I
initially was drawn to him because of his long narratives.  I remember being
blown away by *Cawdor* the first time that I read it.  I actually preferred
*Cawdor* to *Tamar*, the book-length narrative that most critics love.

I read *The Double Axe* for the first time last Spring.  I nearly mailed a
copy to the White House.  That whole crew on Pennsylvania Avenue could learn
something from Jeffers' poetry, particularly *The Double Axe,* about a dead
WW2 vet home from the war--well, I suppose he's technically "undead."

Lately, though, I've been rereading Jeffers' shorter pieces.  "Hurt Hawks"
is a wonderful poem.  When Jeffers reigns himself in as he does in these
short lyrics, he's an amazing poet.

Best,
Jeff Newberry


On 1/5/07, Suzanne Burns <queenmouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (Just because I would rather be doing anything right now  other than this
> release bulletin I am supposed to be working on....)
>
> Hurt Hawks by Robinson Jeffers
> I
>
> The broken pillar of the wing jags from the clotted shoulder,
> The wing trails like a banner in defeat,
>
> No more to use the sky forever but live with famine
> And pain a few days: cat nor coyote
> Will shorten the week of waiting for death, there is game without talons.
>
> He stands under the oak-bush and waits
> The lame feet of salvation; at night he remembers freedom
> And flies in a dream, the dawns ruin it.
>
> He is strong and pain is worse to the strong, incapacity is worse.
> The curs of the day come and torment him
> At distance, no one but death the redeemer will humble that head,
>
> The intrepid readiness, the terrible eyes.
> The wild God of the world is sometimes merciful to those
> That ask mercy, not often to the arrogant.
>
> You do not know him, you communal people, or you have forgotten him;
> Intemperate and savage, the hawk remembers him;
> Beautiful and wild, the hawks, and men that are dying, remember him.
>
> II
>
> I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk;
> but the great redtail
> Had nothing left but unable misery
> From the bone too shattered for mending, the wing that trailed under his
> talons when he moved.
>
> We had fed him six weeks, I gave him freedom,
> He wandered over the foreland hill and returned in the evening, asking for
> death,
> Not like a beggar, still eyed with the old
> Implacable arrogance.
>
> I gave him the lead gift in the twilight.
> What fell was relaxed, Owl-downy, soft feminine feathers; but what
> Soared: the fierce rush: the night-herons by the flooded river cried fear
> at its rising
> Before it was quite unsheathed from reality.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Jan  5 13:29:25 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:29:25 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
Message-ID: <d2b.3b7f562.32cff305@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/4/2007 5:44:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

interestingly complicated issue.  I just have a question: what is  the 
function of music?



I need to read some of the posts more carefully, but I wanted to
say that the original question posed (as copped from Poetry) is 
Does poetry have a social function?
and is not...
Should poetry have a social function?
and it's not asking...
Does poetry have an exclusively social function?
nor is it asking...
Does poetry have a political function?
 
And, of course, a lot depends here on how 
one defines 'social function'. Poetry inheres 
language, langauge inheres social function.
 
Someone I think said it was a silly question. It
may be complicated. It may be unresovable (like
'What is the difference between poetry and prose?')
and perennial. But I don't think it's silly.
 
Music is an entirely different medium. So I don't
think pushing the question in that direction gets
us very far.
 
Finnegan
 
 
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 13:39:40 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:39:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701051039r293c2f82k9399e84a8100df50@mail.gmail.com>

Credo
Robinson Jeffers


My friend from Asia has powers and magic, he plucks a blue leaf from the
young blue-gum
And gazing upon it, gathering quieting
The God in his mind, creates and ocean more real than the ocean, the salt,
the actual
Appaling presence, the power of the waters.
He believes that nothing is real except as we make it.

I humbler have found in my blood

Bred west of the Caucasus a harder mysticism.

Multitude stands in my mind but I think that the ocean in the bone vault is
only

The bone vault's ocean: out there is the ocean's:

The water is the water, the cliff is the rock, come shocks and flashes of
reality.  The mind

Passes, the eye closes, the spirit is a passage;

The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the
heart-breaking beauty

Will remain when there is no heart to break for it


Jeff Newberry

-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Jan  5 13:47:04 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:47:04 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/5/2007 1:40:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Credo
Robinson Jeffers
 
My  friend from Asia has powers and magic, he plucks a blue leaf from the 
young  blue-gum 
And gazing upon it, gathering quieting 
The God in his mind,  creates and ocean more real than the ocean, the salt, 
the actual 
Appaling  presence, the power of the waters. 
He believes that nothing is real except  as we make it. 
I humbler have found in my blood 
Bred west of the Caucasus a harder mysticism. 
Multitude stands in my mind but I think that the ocean  in the bone vault is 
only 
The  bone vault's ocean: out there is the ocean's: 
The  water is the water, the cliff is the rock, come shocks and flashes of  
reality.  The mind 
Passes, the eye closes, the spirit is a  passage; 
The  beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the  
heart-breaking beauty 
Will remain when there is no heart to break for  it 





I'm a confessed Jeffers lover, too. And yet, isn't Stevens'
The Snowman a better poem when it comes to 
existential angst? Jeffers writes beautifully to tell us
there would be beauty without us. Would there be?
It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone vault
that makes beauty.
Finnegan
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 14:02:36 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:02:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>
References: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com>

Jim Finnegan said: "It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone
vault that
makes beauty."

Perhaps, but that's not what Jeffers believed.  Good point, though.

Best,

Jeff Newberry


On 1/5/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  In a message dated 1/5/2007 1:40:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
>
> Credo
> Robinson Jeffers
>
>
> My friend from Asia has powers and magic, he plucks a blue leaf from the
> young blue-gum
> And gazing upon it, gathering quieting
> The God in his mind, creates and ocean more real than the ocean, the salt,
> the actual
> Appaling presence, the power of the waters.
> He believes that nothing is real except as we make it.
>
> I humbler have found in my blood
>
> Bred west of the Caucasus a harder mysticism.
>
> Multitude stands in my mind but I think that the ocean in the bone vault
> is only
>
> The bone vault's ocean: out there is the ocean's:
>
> The water is the water, the cliff is the rock, come shocks and flashes of
> reality.  The mind
>
> Passes, the eye closes, the spirit is a passage;
>
> The beauty of things was born before eyes and sufficient to itself; the
> heart-breaking beauty
>
> Will remain when there is no heart to break for it
>
>  I'm a confessed Jeffers lover, too. And yet, isn't Stevens'
> The Snowman a better poem when it comes to
> existential angst? Jeffers writes beautifully to tell us
> there would be beauty without us. Would there be?
> It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone vault
> that makes beauty.
> Finnegan
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 14:03:16 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:03:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Wallace Stevens
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701051103r1aa6f035n562910a4aaaa57dd@mail.gmail.com>

The Snowman
Wallace Stevens

One must have a mind of winter
To regard the frost and the boughs
Of the pine-trees crusted with snow;

And have been cold a long time
To behold the junipers shagged with ice,
The spruces rough in the distant glitter

Of the January sun; and not to think
Of any misery in the sound of the wind,
In the sound of a few leaves,

Which is the sound of the land
Full of the same wind
That is blowing in the same bare place

For the listener, who listens in the snow,
And, nothing himself, beholds
Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is.

Jeff Newberry

-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 15:18:09 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:18:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>
	<731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701051218k6357ed2fr5d52f9fcf4fe5a77@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jim Finnegan said: "It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone
> vault that makes beauty."
>
> Perhaps, but that's not what Jeffers believed.  Good point, though.
>


I am not so sure that he would disagree necessarily-- I think he might agree
that "beauty" is a concept that humans have developed  and applied to things
they find aesthetically pleasing, and that the concept is objectively
irrelevant to the thing itself, and probably an imposition.

The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what
they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves--
what they are *to us* is just not important.

I think he would also add that they are   worthier than we are because they
have done less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts of
beauty and perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where have
our desires and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our longing
for beauty as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific has a big
raft of plastic garbage floating around in it because of our consumer-driven
(i.e., desire-driven) wastefulness?

Of course this is all just hair splitting.  I just love Jeffers.

Another fine environmental poet to read is W.S. Merwin of course.  I should
dig up his poem about the pineapples.


Suzanne Burns
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From screwzbaran at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 15:31:36 2007
From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:31:36 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701051218k6357ed2fr5d52f9fcf4fe5a77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>
	<731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701051218k6357ed2fr5d52f9fcf4fe5a77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0701051231i78e2abcfvad4fc367982f8d60@mail.gmail.com>

Suzanne,

Is there any place I can view your work or writing?
I really love reading your responses, you possess a great fluid writing
style.

--Suzanne

On 1/5/07, Suzanne Burns <queenmouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/5/07, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jim Finnegan said: "It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone
> > vault that makes beauty."
> >
> > Perhaps, but that's not what Jeffers believed.  Good point, though.
> >
>
>
> I am not so sure that he would disagree necessarily-- I think he might
> agree that "beauty" is a concept that humans have developed  and applied to
> things they find aesthetically pleasing, and that the concept is objectively
> irrelevant to the thing itself, and probably an imposition.
>
> The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what
> they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves--
> what they are *to us* is just not important.
>
> I think he would also add that they are   worthier than we are because
> they have done less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts
> of beauty and perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where
> have our desires and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our
> longing for beauty as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific
> has a big raft of plastic garbage floating around in it because of our
> consumer-driven ( i.e., desire-driven) wastefulness?
>
> Of course this is all just hair splitting.  I just love Jeffers.
>
> Another fine environmental poet to read is W.S. Merwin of course.  I
> should dig up his poem about the pineapples.
>
>
> Suzanne Burns
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much
as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. ? Not to mention that most
terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude."  - Walter Benjamin
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 15:35:10 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:35:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers Continued
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701051235p534285f3s58dba4fe49e173da@mail.gmail.com>

Suzanne said:

"The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what
they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves--
what they are *to us* is just not important."

Exactly.  Jeffers' letters makea fascinating study--particularly regarding
his cosmology.  This is from a letter I excerpted for an essay a while
back.  I don't have Anne Ridgeway's edited volume here at hand, so I'm sorry
that I can't give you a full notation:

"I believe that the universe is one being, all its parts are different
expressions of the same energy, and they are all in communication with each
other, influencing each other, therefore parts of one organic whole.    [ .
. . ] The parts chance and pass, or die, people and races and rocks and
star, none of them seems to me important in itself, but only the whole.  The
whole is in all is parts so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely
in earnest, that I am compelled to love it, and to think of it as divine.  It
seems to me that this whole alone is worthy of the deeper sort of love; and
that here is peace, freedom, I might say a kind of salvation, in turning
one's affections outward toward this one God, rather than inward on one's
self, or on humanity, or on human imagination and abstractions?the world of
spirits." (221)

I don't know about your concept of what Jeffers thought of as "worthy."
James Karman's *Robinson Jeffers:  Poet of California* might be a good place
for me to look, however.  Jeffers' misanthropy has been widely
discussed--did he hate humanity? I don't think so.  I think that what
incensed Jeffers so much was wasteful, inauthentic humanity:  that is, those
who exist in a place and act as though they are the only ones who either
exist or matter.  For Jeffers, humanity is arrogant--thinking itself above
reproach, beyond the consequences of its actions.  This hubris is the
ultimate flaw.

Nonetheless, I have to disagree with the radical ecologist reading that some
give to Jeffers.  I don't think of him as an "ecological poet."  From what
I've read in the letters, I think he may have resented his work being
co-opted by some political faction, however.

But, as you say so astutely, this is all merely splitting hairs.  I, too,
love Robinson Jeffers, and have for a long time.

Best,
Jeff Newberry

On 1/5/07, Suzanne Burns <queenmouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/5/07, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jim Finnegan said: "It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone
> > vault that makes beauty."
> >
> > Perhaps, but that's not what Jeffers believed.  Good point, though.
> >
>
>
> I am not so sure that he would disagree necessarily-- I think he might
> agree that "beauty" is a concept that humans have developed  and applied to
> things they find aesthetically pleasing, and that the concept is objectively
> irrelevant to the thing itself, and probably an imposition.
>
> The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what
> they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves--
> what they are *to us* is just not important.
>
> I think he would also add that they are   worthier than we are because
> they have done less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts
> of beauty and perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where
> have our desires and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our
> longing for beauty as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific
> has a big raft of plastic garbage floating around in it because of our
> consumer-driven ( i.e., desire-driven) wastefulness?
>
> Of course this is all just hair splitting.  I just love Jeffers.
>
> Another fine environmental poet to read is W.S. Merwin of course.  I
> should dig up his poem about the pineapples.
>
>
> Suzanne Burns
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 15:48:19 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:48:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0701051231i78e2abcfvad4fc367982f8d60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>
	<731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701051218k6357ed2fr5d52f9fcf4fe5a77@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d5ffa0b0701051231i78e2abcfvad4fc367982f8d60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701051248j4a5ab9fr8b4594276f83c916@mail.gmail.com>

:-)

Aw shucks!

Well I kind of own Anny a bio and some poems, so maybe I should move my butt
and do that so that people can see a bit more of what I do!

I used to publish a lot, but haven't recently because I am hideously
disorganized.  One of my new year resolutions is to get over that and start
showing my face again.

Let's talk!!

Many Thanks,

Suzanne


On 1/5/07, Suzanne Baran <screwzbaran at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Suzanne,
>
> Is there any place I can view your work or writing?
> I really love reading your responses, you possess a great fluid writing
> style.
>
> --Suzanne
>
> On 1/5/07, Suzanne Burns <queenmouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 1/5/07, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim Finnegan said: "It's not the ocean but that big brain in the bone
> > > vault that makes beauty."
> > >
> > > Perhaps, but that's not what Jeffers believed.  Good point, though.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I am not so sure that he would disagree necessarily-- I think he might
> > agree that "beauty" is a concept that humans have developed  and applied to
> > things they find aesthetically pleasing, and that the concept is objectively
> > irrelevant to the thing itself, and probably an imposition.
> >
> > The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply
> > what they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to
> > themselves-- what they are *to us* is just not important.
> >
> > I think he would also add that they are   worthier than we are because
> > they have done less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts
> > of beauty and perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where
> > have our desires and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our
> > longing for beauty as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific
> > has a big raft of plastic garbage floating around in it because of our
> > consumer-driven ( i.e., desire-driven) wastefulness?
> >
> > Of course this is all just hair splitting.  I just love Jeffers.
> >
> > Another fine environmental poet to read is W.S. Merwin of course.  I
> > should dig up his poem about the pineapples.
> >
> >
> > Suzanne Burns
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as
> much as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. ? Not to mention that
> most terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude."  - Walter
> Benjamin
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style."

--Quentin Crisp
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Fri Jan  5 15:54:22 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:54:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers Continued
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0701051235p534285f3s58dba4fe49e173da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <731bb17a0701051235p534285f3s58dba4fe49e173da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701051254w7809e984r771077ce22b256a2@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jeffers' misanthropy has been widely discussed--did he hate humanity? I
> don't think so.  I think that what incensed Jeffers so much was wasteful,
> inauthentic humanity:  that is, those who exist in a place and act as though
> they are the only ones who either exist or matter.  For Jeffers, humanity is
> arrogant--thinking itself above reproach, beyond the consequences of its
> actions.  This hubris is the ultimate flaw.
>


Thank you so much for saying that!!  I couldn't agree more.  I have never
thought of him as a misanthrope and I protest heavily that acknowledging
humanity's wastefulness and hubris has somehow mean hating humanity.  It
bothers me when people conflate those two things.

Thanks,

Suzanne
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Jan  5 17:10:34 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:10:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bob's art for art's sake
References: <d2b.3b7f562.32cff305@aol.com>
Message-ID: <011001c73116$56a82490$0efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I brought up music because both it and poetry are arts.  If one can exist without having to serve some non-aesthetic social purpose, why can't the other?  

--Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Jan  5 18:26:00 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:26:00 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/5/2007 3:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
queenmouse at gmail.com writes:

The  ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what  
they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves--  
what they are *to us* is just not important.  

I think he would  also add that they are   worthier than we are because they 
have done  less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts of 
beauty and  perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where have our 
desires  and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our longing for 
beauty  as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific has a big raft 
of  plastic garbage floating around in it because of our consumer-driven ( 
i.e.,  desire-driven) wastefulness?

Of course this is all just hair  splitting.  I just love Jeffers.



Suzanne, I'll say again I'm also a Jeffers fan. The issue here is  veering
more to the philosophical: What does it mean to say, as Jeffers seems
to say, that something has 'beauty' without us (humankind). It's  pretty
much our concept; only we can own it. Similarly, what does it mean to 
say a rock or hawk or twisted pine hasn't harmed its environment? 
The rock is inanimate. And any living organism, as Darwin has it,  would
by nature choke off the existence of any other living organism in  order
the preserve its own survival. If two plants get along it's only  because
one couldn't get the upper tendril, so to speak. We  fantasize harmonious
relations between living things that coexist only because they haven't 
been killed of or overcome by another species or they have found some
mutual benefit in cohabiition with another species. The great circle  of
life is a winner-take-all-death-match played by degrees and  influenced
by vagaries of climate. I'm starting to feel as dour as Thomas  Hobbes.
 
There there is the naive aspect of Jean-Jacques Rousseau in Jeffers. 
Jeffers lived during the period of the two World Wars and certainly  
despaired 
of humankind's action. (There are a number of his poems  that
seem to show Jeffers believed poetry had a social function; otherwise
I don't think he would written them). He saw enough development and
environmental change around Carmel CA where he built (by hand)  the 
Tor House to see that humankind could readily ruin a beautiful  landscape,
but I don't think that he adequately recognized his own complicity.  He
gets to California early on and builds himself a house by sea because  it's
wonderful to have a house by the sea. It should have occured to  Jeffers
that others would have the same desire as he and in time all coastal  areas
unprotected from devlepment would either be developed or become  off-limits 
to due ownership of already established landowners. So there is  something 
a little thin in his argument for nature's purity and man's venal  
exploitation.
 
Still, you've got to like a guy who said he didn't believe poetry had
a civilizing effect, that poetry appealed to what was most primitive
in man. Diderot has that great line "that poetry must have  something
in that is barbaric, vast and wild." Alex could probably quote it in
French for us. I love that about Jeffers.
 
 
Finnegan

http://ursprache.blogspot.com
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From gbach at csulb.edu  Fri Jan  5 18:47:04 2007
From: gbach at csulb.edu (Glenn Bach)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:47:04 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <200701052024.l05KOv8V030275@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701052024.l05KOv8V030275@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <459EE378.1030707@csulb.edu>

Hello all,

I get the digest, so forgive me if someone already mentioned this, but 
W.S. Merwin will be the keynote speaker at the 13th Annual Robinson 
Jeffers Association Conference, Feb 16-18, 2007, University of Hawaii. 
http://www.jeffers.org/

Best,

G.


 >  I just love Jeffers.

Another fine environmental poet to read is W.S. Merwin of course.  I 
should dig up his poem about the pineapples.


From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 21:39:14 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:39:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] happy reader
In-Reply-To: <200701052025.l05KOv8X030275@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <983021.38276.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hm, yes. 
Yum,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan  5 23:00:58 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 05:00:58 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
References: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
Message-ID: <015e01c73147$45ae5340$d2ad3252@ANNY>

I was thinking more or less on the same line. The fact that man was able, thanks to his _cunning_ (might be the right word) to win the tiger, means, in Darwin's terms, that he is the fittest. And sure, Jeffers consumed as much as he needed to live his life.

  From: JforJames at aol.com 

  Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 12:26 AM



  In a message dated 1/5/2007 3:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, queenmouse at gmail.com writes:
    The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves-- what they are *to us* is just not important.  

    I think he would also add that they are   worthier than we are because they have done less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts of beauty and perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where have our desires and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our longing for beauty as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific has a big raft of plastic garbage floating around in it because of our consumer-driven ( i.e., desire-driven) wastefulness?

    Of course this is all just hair splitting.  I just love Jeffers.

  Suzanne, I'll say again I'm also a Jeffers fan. The issue here is veering
  more to the philosophical: What does it mean to say, as Jeffers seems
  to say, that something has 'beauty' without us (humankind). It's pretty
  much our concept; only we can own it. Similarly, what does it mean to 
  say a rock or hawk or twisted pine hasn't harmed its environment? 
  The rock is inanimate. And any living organism, as Darwin has it, would
  by nature choke off the existence of any other living organism in order
  the preserve its own survival. If two plants get along it's only because
  one couldn't get the upper tendril, so to speak. We fantasize harmonious
  relations between living things that coexist only because they haven't 
  been killed of or overcome by another species or they have found some
  mutual benefit in cohabiition with another species. The great circle of
  life is a winner-take-all-death-match played by degrees and influenced
  by vagaries of climate. I'm starting to feel as dour as Thomas Hobbes.

  There there is the naive aspect of Jean-Jacques Rousseau in Jeffers. 
  Jeffers lived during the period of the two World Wars and certainly despaired 
  of humankind's action. (There are a number of his poems that
  seem to show Jeffers believed poetry had a social function; otherwise
  I don't think he would written them). He saw enough development and
  environmental change around Carmel CA where he built (by hand) the 
  Tor House to see that humankind could readily ruin a beautiful landscape,
  but I don't think that he adequately recognized his own complicity. He
  gets to California early on and builds himself a house by sea because it's
  wonderful to have a house by the sea. It should have occured to Jeffers
  that others would have the same desire as he and in time all coastal areas
  unprotected from devlepment would either be developed or become off-limits 
  to due ownership of already established landowners. So there is something 
  a little thin in his argument for nature's purity and man's venal exploitation.

  Still, you've got to like a guy who said he didn't believe poetry had
  a civilizing effect, that poetry appealed to what was most primitive
  in man. Diderot has that great line "that poetry must have something
  in that is barbaric, vast and wild." Alex could probably quote it in
  French for us. I love that about Jeffers.


  Finnegan

  http://ursprache.blogspot.com
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan  5 23:03:25 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 05:03:25 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
References: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com><731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com><aa458fec0701051218k6357ed2fr5d52f9fcf4fe5a77@mail.gmail.com><2d5ffa0b0701051231i78e2abcfvad4fc367982f8d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701051248j4a5ab9fr8b4594276f83c916@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <016d01c73147$9da9abd0$d2ad3252@ANNY>

That's a great idea, Suzanne. Yes, move that butt of yours...
:-)

  From: Suzanne Burns 

  Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 9:48 PM





  :-)

  Aw shucks!

  Well I kind of own Anny a bio and some poems, so maybe I should move my butt and do that so that people can see a bit more of what I do!  

  I used to publish a lot, but haven't recently because I am hideously disorganized.  One of my new year resolutions is to get over that and start showing my face again. 

  Let's talk!!

  Many Thanks,

  Suzanne



  On 1/5/07, Suzanne Baran <screwzbaran at gmail.com > wrote:
    Suzanne,

    Is there any place I can view your work or writing?
    I really love reading your responses, you possess a great fluid writing style.

    --Suzanne 


    -- 
    "The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. ? Not to mention that most terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude."  - Walter Benjamin 
    _______________________________________________


    -- 
    "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style."

    --Quentin Crisp 
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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 00:01:51 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:01:51 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
References: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701052101u5b2db2b9yfefb3f713f184860@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> Suzanne, I'll say again I'm also a Jeffers fan. The issue here is veering
> more to the philosophical: What does it mean to say, as Jeffers seems
> to say, that something has 'beauty' without us (humankind).

Well, this seems ALL philosophical to me :) This argument hasn't been
solved in thousands of years of debate, it probably won't be here...
beauty in the eye of the beholder, beauty in the eye of god (in our
absence or not), beauty inherent, beauty conceptual, beauty inherent,
beauty as discord... take your pick. Fully half of the positions don't
need us.

> The rock is inanimate. And any living organism, as Darwin has it, would
> by nature choke off the existence of any other living organism in order
> the preserve its own survival. If two plants get along it's only because
> one couldn't get the upper tendril, so to speak. We fantasize harmonious
> relations between living things that coexist only because they haven't
> been killed of or overcome by another species or they have found some
> mutual benefit in cohabiition with another species. The great circle of
> life is a winner-take-all-death-match played by degrees and influenced
> by vagaries of climate. I'm starting to feel as dour as Thomas Hobbes.

Seriously-- what's not beautiful about what you describe? A bonsai
gripping furiously to a rock, desperately seeking whatever nutrients
it can get, stunted, fighting and still surviving is a beautiful
thing. Predator finding its proper prey is likewise a beautiful thing
in many respects.

c


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 06:22:17 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 05:22:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function: Human Appendix
Message-ID: <001001c73184$ecea9870$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

On the issue of "function" and because poets usually like to keep up to date on as many issues a possible, I thought I'd offer the following from Loren G. Martin, professor of physiology at Oklahoma State University on ScientificAmerican.com:  

"What is the function of the human appendix?"
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000CAE56-7201-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7


_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 07:58:21 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 05:58:21 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
References: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60701060458i3975ca56g2eaf3733ed53edac@mail.gmail.com>

"We fantasize harmonious
relations between living things that coexist only because they haven't
been killed of or overcome by another species or they have found some
mutual benefit in cohabiition with another species. The great circle of
life is a winner-take-all-death-match played by degrees and influenced
by vagaries of climate. "

Hmm.  If "a winner-take-all-death-match" isn't exactly fantacizing, it
is, at least, a projection of human perception and attitude.  Cycles
are natural, circles are what result when we have one leg shorter, or
one faculty less developed, than another. "a
winner-take-all-death-match" is a spin that justifies things like the
Iraq war, especially with the use of "winner."

- Jim

On 1/5/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2007 3:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> queenmouse at gmail.com writes:
> The ocean is simply itself.  The rat, the hawk, the cobra are simply what
> they are, and their beauty and vitality belongs completely to themselves--
> what they are *to us* is just not important.
>
> I think he would also add that they are   worthier than we are because they
> have done less harm, and that we should take ourselves and our concepts of
> beauty and perfection on a long walk off a short pier. After all where have
> our desires and tastes taken this planet?  How do we reconcile our longing
> for beauty as we look at the ocean with the fact that the Pacific has a big
> raft of plastic garbage floating around in it because of our consumer-driven
> ( i.e., desire-driven) wastefulness?
>
> Of course this is all just hair splitting.  I just love Jeffers.
>
>
> Suzanne, I'll say again I'm also a Jeffers fan. The issue here is veering
> more to the philosophical: What does it mean to say, as Jeffers seems
> to say, that something has 'beauty' without us (humankind). It's pretty
> much our concept; only we can own it. Similarly, what does it mean to
> say a rock or hawk or twisted pine hasn't harmed its environment?
> The rock is inanimate. And any living organism, as Darwin has it, would
> by nature choke off the existence of any other living organism in order
> the preserve its own survival. If two plants get along it's only because
> one couldn't get the upper tendril, so to speak. We fantasize harmonious
> relations between living things that coexist only because they haven't
> been killed of or overcome by another species or they have found some
> mutual benefit in cohabiition with another species. The great circle of
> life is a winner-take-all-death-match played by degrees and influenced
> by vagaries of climate. I'm starting to feel as dour as Thomas Hobbes.
>
> There there is the naive aspect of Jean-Jacques Rousseau in Jeffers.
> Jeffers lived during the period of the two World Wars and certainly
> despaired
> of humankind's action. (There are a number of his poems that
> seem to show Jeffers believed poetry had a social function; otherwise
> I don't think he would written them). He saw enough development and
> environmental change around Carmel CA where he built (by hand) the
> Tor House to see that humankind could readily ruin a beautiful landscape,
> but I don't think that he adequately recognized his own complicity. He
> gets to California early on and builds himself a house by sea because it's
> wonderful to have a house by the sea. It should have occured to Jeffers
> that others would have the same desire as he and in time all coastal areas
> unprotected from devlepment would either be developed or become off-limits
> to due ownership of already established landowners. So there is something
> a little thin in his argument for nature's purity and man's venal
> exploitation.
>
> Still, you've got to like a guy who said he didn't believe poetry had
> a civilizing effect, that poetry appealed to what was most primitive
> in man. Diderot has that great line "that poetry must have something
> in that is barbaric, vast and wild." Alex could probably quote it in
> French for us. I love that about Jeffers.
>
>
> Finnegan
>
> http://ursprache.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From queenmouse at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 08:44:33 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:44:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0701052101u5b2db2b9yfefb3f713f184860@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701052101u5b2db2b9yfefb3f713f184860@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701060544l7ef1e1d2kfc5ef5bfcbf053b3@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > The rock is inanimate. And any living organism, as Darwin has it, would
> > by nature choke off the existence of any other living organism in order
> > the preserve its own survival.



Absolutely.  To take the environmentalist's position though, and I think I
can do this without romanticising nature,  we have done a considerably more
through job of this than any other species on the planet, and not just for
our survival-- SUVs are not necessary for survival.

The nature world is not at all about harmonious relationships and peaceable
kingdoms.  I can respect this, and like Chris I find plenty of beauty in
it..  If a polar bear needed to eat me, I wouldn't be happy certainly, but I
wouldn't hold it against the polar bear.  I have a bone to pick though about
all that garbage in the Pacific-- that never needed to happen.

Back to Jeffers, well yes.  He certainly had what I would consider a life of
luxury-- a house by the sea in southern california. Yum.  I'll take that
kind of austerity any day.  I suspect that he was aware of this on some
level.

Suzanne
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 08:47:33 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:47:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <016d01c73147$9da9abd0$d2ad3252@ANNY>
References: <232.12deda65.32cff728@aol.com>
	<731bb17a0701051102w3680907bp8af337443eefd3b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701051218k6357ed2fr5d52f9fcf4fe5a77@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d5ffa0b0701051231i78e2abcfvad4fc367982f8d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701051248j4a5ab9fr8b4594276f83c916@mail.gmail.com>
	<016d01c73147$9da9abd0$d2ad3252@ANNY>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701060547ya0f7e9ch839e8c8d01db57ed@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/07, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
>  That's a great idea, Suzanne. Yes, move that butt of yours...
> :-)
>


Thank you Anny!  And I will do that, promise.  I really do need to do this.


Some years back I really had the wind knocked out of me as far as sending my
work out and participating in the poetry community-- it had a lot to do with
my own need to focus on getting some economic stability in my life.  Well
now I really don't have any excuses.  Its time to get back to work.

Cheers,

Suzanne Burns
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 08:54:53 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:54:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0701060544l7ef1e1d2kfc5ef5bfcbf053b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701052101u5b2db2b9yfefb3f713f184860@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701060544l7ef1e1d2kfc5ef5bfcbf053b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701060554o4af108a3kfa1490c31db96f96@mail.gmail.com>

Suzanne said:  *"Back to Jeffers, well yes.  He certainly had what I would
consider a life of luxury-- a house by the sea in southern california. Yum.
I'll take that kind of austerity any day.  I suspect that he was aware of
this on some level."*

He was.  I don't have the poem at hand here--all my books are packed right
now, as my wife and I are preparing to move 200 miles from here.

But I believe that the title of the poem I have in mind is "The Blood
Guilt."

Also, and I don't know if this info matters or not, Jeffers built his house
with his own hands.  He apprenticed himself to a stonemason in his early 30s
(I think) and learned to cut stone.  He cut and laid the foundation for Tor
House.  He was hardly a rich tourist purchasing some crepe-paper palace
overlooking the Pacific.

For what it's worth,

Jeff Newberry


On 1/6/07, Suzanne Burns <queenmouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 1/5/07, JforJames at aol.com < JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The rock is inanimate. And any living organism, as Darwin has it,
> > would
> > > by nature choke off the existence of any other living organism in
> > order
> > > the preserve its own survival.
>
>
>
> Absolutely.  To take the environmentalist's position though, and I think I
> can do this without romanticising nature,  we have done a considerably more
> through job of this than any other species on the planet, and not just for
> our survival-- SUVs are not necessary for survival.
>
> The nature world is not at all about harmonious relationships and
> peaceable kingdoms.  I can respect this, and like Chris I find plenty of
> beauty in it..  If a polar bear needed to eat me, I wouldn't be happy
> certainly, but I wouldn't hold it against the polar bear.  I have a bone to
> pick though about all that garbage in the Pacific-- that never needed to
> happen.
>
> Back to Jeffers, well yes.  He certainly had what I would consider a life
> of luxury-- a house by the sea in southern california. Yum.  I'll take that
> kind of austerity any day.  I suspect that he was aware of this on some
> level.
>
> Suzanne
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 09:52:26 2007
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:52:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0701060554o4af108a3kfa1490c31db96f96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d0d.673b96c.32d03888@aol.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701052101u5b2db2b9yfefb3f713f184860@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa458fec0701060544l7ef1e1d2kfc5ef5bfcbf053b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<731bb17a0701060554o4af108a3kfa1490c31db96f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0701060652u69c91589pa5646aa37b88f449@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/07, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Also, and I don't know if this info matters or not, Jeffers built his
> house with his own hands.  He apprenticed himself to a stonemason in his
> early 30s (I think) and learned to cut stone.  He cut and laid the
> foundation for Tor House.  He was hardly a rich tourist purchasing some
> crepe-paper palace overlooking the Pacific.
>
> For what it's worth,
>

Its worth a lot!  I am glad to know that, and I am not surprised.  Robert
Francis btw did the same thing, building Fort Juniper out of pines that had
been uprooted by a hurricane.

Suzanne
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Jan  6 10:39:04 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:39:04 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] The honey of peace
Message-ID: <996FEA74-6900-445C-89D5-F702771F4CE7@ripon.edu>

To The Stone-Cutters

Stone-cutters fighting time with marble, you foredefeated
Challengers of oblivion
Eat cynical earnings, knowing rock splits, records fall down,
The square-limbed Roman letters
Scale in the thaws, wear in the rain. The poet as well
Builds his monument mockingly;
For man will be blotted out, the blithe earth die, the brave sun
Die blind and blacken to the heart:
Yet stones have stood for a thousand years, and pained thoughts found
The honey of peace in old poems.


--Robinson Jeffers


==========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan  6 10:57:20 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 10:57:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The honey of peace
References: <996FEA74-6900-445C-89D5-F702771F4CE7@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <019a01c731ab$5b2a83b0$15fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  To The Stone-Cutters


  Stone-cutters fighting time with marble, you foredefeated
  Challengers of oblivion
  Eat cynical earnings, knowing rock splits, records fall down,
  The square-limbed Roman letters
  Scale in the thaws, wear in the rain. The poet as well
  Builds his monument mockingly;
  For man will be blotted out, the blithe earth die, the brave sun
  Die blind and blacken to the heart:
  Yet stones have stood for a thousand years, and pained thoughts found
  The honey of peace in old poems.


  --Robinson Jeffers


  One of my favorites for a longe time.

  --Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 11:55:10 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:55:10 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
Message-ID: <d2c.3d42d13.32d12e6e@aol.com>

 
RETURN 
A  little too abstract, a little too wise,
It is time for us to kiss the earth  again.
It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies,
Let the rich life  run to the roots again.
I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
And dip my  arms in them up to the shoulders.
I will find my accounting where the alder  leaf quivers
In the ocean wind over the river boulders.
I will touch  things and things and no more thoughts
That breed like mouthless May-flies  darkening the sky.
The insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
So  that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
Things are the hawk's food and noble  is the mountain, 
Oh noble 
Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of  marble. 

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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 11:58:38 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:58:38 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
Message-ID: <d1b.1a5c3db.32d12f3e@aol.com>



This is by Robinson Jeffers...

RETURN
A  little too abstract, a little too wise,
It is time for us to kiss the earth  again.
It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies,
Let the rich  life run to the roots again.
I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
And  dip my arms in them up to the shoulders.
I will find my accounting where  the alder leaf quivers
In the ocean wind over the river boulders.
I will  touch things and things and no more thoughts
That breed like mouthless  May-flies darkening the sky.
The insect clouds that blind our passionate  hawks
So that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
Things are the hawk's  food and noble is the mountain, 
Oh noble 
Pico Blanco,  steep sea-wave of marble. 


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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan  6 12:07:19 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:07:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
References: <d2c.3d42d13.32d12e6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <018f01c731b5$2046a210$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I taught a course once which I called "The American Bard," in which I looked at six pairings of poets and songwriters. One of them was Jeffers-Guthrie, which was interesting in that you had two bards who celebrated the same area of northern California, but they could have been two different worlds -- Jeffers seeing the place rather than the people, Guthrie seeing only the people.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:55 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....


  RETURN



  A little too abstract, a little too wise,
  It is time for us to kiss the earth again.
  It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies,
  Let the rich life run to the roots again.
  I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
  And dip my arms in them up to the shoulders.
  I will find my accounting where the alder leaf quivers
  In the ocean wind over the river boulders.
  I will touch things and things and no more thoughts
  That breed like mouthless May-flies darkening the sky.
  The insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
  So that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
  Things are the hawk's food and noble is the mountain, 
     Oh noble 
  Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of marble.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 12:17:43 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:17:43 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <bcf.af8924b.32d133b7@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/6/2007 7:58:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
cervantes.james at gmail.com writes:

If "a  winner-take-all-death-match" isn't exactly fantacizing, it
is, at least, a  projection of human perception and attitude.  Cycles
are natural,  circles are what result when we have one leg shorter, or
one faculty less  developed, than another. "a
winner-take-all-death-match" is a spin that  justifies things like the
Iraq war, especially with the use of  "winner."



Jim, I see what you're saying...I was using exaggerated rhetoric to
make the point that nature is not necessarily as benign &  'beautiful' 
as we tend to think of it...if a certain bacteria could overrun the planet 
by reproducing to point that the earth was covered with 10 foot deep  
slathering 
of choking toxic slime, it would. The only factors that  keep species
from doing similar unseemly things to the environment are  resistance
and exploitation by other species, exhaustion of requisite  resources 
and climate constraints.
 
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 12:31:57 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:31:57 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/6/2007 12:02:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
chris.lott at gmail.com writes:

Seriously-- what's not beautiful about what you describe? A  bonsai
gripping furiously to a rock, desperately seeking whatever  nutrients
it can get, stunted, fighting and still surviving is a  beautiful
thing. Predator finding its proper prey is likewise a beautiful  thing
in many respects.



Of course, Chris, it's seen as beautiful to us...but beauty has got  nothing
to do with it. Jeffers often casts the natural things of the world in  a 
romantic light
and often infers nobility to their intentions/actions/states where those  
things
are neutral or biologiically programmed. I love him anyway. 
 
Someone mentioned Karman's biography of Jeffers, and I think it's a  good
read. Jeffers did built his house of stone primarily by his own hand. The  
tower 
of the Tor House was actually built as a gift to his wife Una. If you  go near
Carmel you should stop and visit it. Despite the growth that has  occured
around the coast, it remains charming and one can easily imagine it  a perfect
abode for an artists. Heidegger said 'Man dwells  poetically'...and Jeffers
surely did.  Lest I over-romaniticize his life, it can be said  that he was 
lucky
enough to have inheritance enough to buy property and provide him  with
means to life rather modestly in Carmel. His poetry never would have  given
his the income required to do so. And he never taught that I'm aware of. 
I think his most successful piece of writng was his translation of  Medea
which had a good run in New York City.The is an old video of  the production
someone could easily scare up. It's a scary bit of Greek  tragedy, for sure
and perfect vehicle for Jeffers rather dim view of human actions  and 
motives. 
Finnegan
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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 12:33:31 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:33:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] beauty + survival
In-Reply-To: <200701061644.l06GiZ8X013162@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <305653.65532.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Chris wrote:
"Seriously-- what's not beautiful about what you
describe? A bonsai
gripping furiously to a rock, desperately seeking
whatever nutrients
it can get, stunted, fighting and still surviving is a
beautiful
thing. Predator finding its proper prey is likewise a
beautiful thing
in many respects."

Chris, I see you've been reading your Leopardi
carefully :D
Finnegan:
In re Diderot: Yup, actually, I wrote a paper on that
work a few semesters ago. But, contrary to popular
belief, he's not advocating what would come later
(Romanticism, Sturm und Drang schtick, etc), but
regretting that such a poetry isn't possible...and
then goes on for a while about the tame bourgeois
drama he thinks is fit and proper for 18th-c
Frenchmen. Twas an intuition, but alas, twas no
position! Not Diderot's best moment, in the final
analysis, in spite of such flashes of light.
Academically thine,
Alex


www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 12:40:22 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:40:22 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] beauty + survival
Message-ID: <c12.d67263a.32d13906@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/6/2007 12:33:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
alexdickow9 at yahoo.com writes:

In re  Diderot: Yup, actually, I wrote a paper on that
work a few semesters ago.  But, contrary to popular
belief, he's not advocating what would come  later
(Romanticism, Sturm und Drang schtick, etc), but
regretting that  such a poetry isn't possible...and
then goes on for a while about the tame  bourgeois
drama he thinks is fit and proper for 18th-c
Frenchmen. Twas  an intuition, but alas, twas no
position! Not Diderot's best moment, in the  final
analysis, in spite of such flashes of light.
Academically  thine,



Alex, thanks for that background to the quote... 
Who are the French poets most important to you
be they barbaric and wild or tame and bourgeois?
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 13:14:38 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 13:14:38 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Medea
Message-ID: <461.a1807c3.32d1410e@aol.com>

_http://www.amazon.com/Medea-Jos%C3%A9-Quintero/dp/B00000K3UC_ 
(http://www.amazon.com/Medea-Jos?-Quintero/dp/B00000K3UC) 
There is the '59 Medea production which is the one I was thinking  of...
 
I also see it was produced again in 1983... 
_http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213875/_ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213875/) 
 
As one of the reviewers waggishly said, don't rent this one for
Mother's Day.
Finnegan
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:37:48 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:37:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The honey of peace
In-Reply-To: <996FEA74-6900-445C-89D5-F702771F4CE7@ripon.edu>
References: <996FEA74-6900-445C-89D5-F702771F4CE7@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701061137x75de6f02x25a3dd164fd1af63@mail.gmail.com>

I always loved "foredefeated/Challengers of oblivion."

Jeff Newberry


On 1/6/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>
>  *To The Stone-Cutters***
>
> Stone-cutters fighting time with marble, you foredefeated
> Challengers of oblivion
> Eat cynical earnings, knowing rock splits, records fall down,
> The square-limbed Roman letters
> Scale in the thaws, wear in the rain. The poet as well
> Builds his monument mockingly;
> For man will be blotted out, the blithe earth die, the brave sun
> Die blind and blacken to the heart:
> Yet stones have stood for a thousand years, and pained thoughts found
> The honey of peace in old poems.
>
>
> --Robinson Jeffers
>
>
> ==========================================
>
> David Graham
>
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>
> Home Page:
>
> *http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html*
>
> Poetry Library:
>
> *http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html*
>
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:38:57 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:38:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
In-Reply-To: <018f01c731b5$2046a210$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <d2c.3d42d13.32d12e6e@aol.com>
	<018f01c731b5$2046a210$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701061138q44866882s7f5a5e4695825b13@mail.gmail.com>

Tad,

That sounds really interesting.  Whom else did you pair?

Jeff Newberry


On 1/6/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>  I taught a course once which I called "The American Bard," in which I
> looked at six pairings of poets and songwriters. One of them was
> Jeffers-Guthrie, which was interesting in that you had two bards who
> celebrated the same area of northern California, but they could have been
> two different worlds -- Jeffers seeing the place rather than the people,
> Guthrie seeing only the people.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* JforJames at aol.com
> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:55 AM
> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
>
>
>
> RETURN
>
>
>
> A little too abstract, a little too wise,
> It is time for us to kiss the earth again.
> It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies,
> Let the rich life run to the roots again.
> I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
> And dip my arms in them up to the shoulders.
> I will find my accounting where the alder leaf quivers
> In the ocean wind over the river boulders.
> I will touch things and things and no more thoughts
> That breed like mouthless May-flies darkening the sky.
> The insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
> So that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
> Things are the hawk's food and noble is the mountain,
>    Oh noble
> Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of marble.
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan  6 14:42:02 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:42:02 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The honey of peace
References: <996FEA74-6900-445C-89D5-F702771F4CE7@ripon.edu>
	<019a01c731ab$5b2a83b0$15fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <007701c731ca$bd248330$35df3652@ANNY>

great poem
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The honey of peace



   
    To The Stone-Cutters


    Stone-cutters fighting time with marble, you foredefeated
    Challengers of oblivion
    Eat cynical earnings, knowing rock splits, records fall down,
    The square-limbed Roman letters
    Scale in the thaws, wear in the rain. The poet as well
    Builds his monument mockingly;
    For man will be blotted out, the blithe earth die, the brave sun
    Die blind and blacken to the heart:
    Yet stones have stood for a thousand years, and pained thoughts found
    The honey of peace in old poems.

    --Robinson Jeffers


    One of my favorites for a longe time.

    --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:43:00 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:43:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Medea
In-Reply-To: <461.a1807c3.32d1410e@aol.com>
References: <461.a1807c3.32d1410e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701061143h451ca3ceqea950934599523b3@mail.gmail.com>

I've never seen this production, but I may have to order it.

Jeffers' fascination with Greek tragedy provides a lens with which one can
view his poetry.  His preoccupations with incest and family violence make
perfect sense in the light of the ancient dramas that inspired him.

Jeff Newberry


On 1/6/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  http://www.amazon.com/Medea-Jos%C3%A9-Quintero/dp/B00000K3UC
> There is the '59 Medea production which is the one I was thinking of...
>
> I also see it was produced again in 1983...
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213875/
>
> As one of the reviewers waggishly said, don't rent this one for
> Mother's Day.
> Finnegan
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:57:22 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:57:22 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] beauty + survival
In-Reply-To: <305653.65532.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200701061644.l06GiZ8X013162@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<305653.65532.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701061157p2a3fcff7gcc5533d837654a7e@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/07, Alexander Dickow <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Chris, I see you've been reading your Leopardi
> carefully :D

Sadly, no. But having exposed my ignorance, I guess I better :)

c


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan  6 15:05:43 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 21:05:43 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] beauty + survival
References: <200701061644.l06GiZ8X013162@wiz.cath.vt.edu><305653.65532.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701061157p2a3fcff7gcc5533d837654a7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010301c731ce$0c6c0be0$35df3652@ANNY>

Oh well, don't know if you really have to...
so terribly sad.

From: "Chris Lott" <chris.lott at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:57 PM


> On 1/6/07, Alexander Dickow <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Chris, I see you've been reading your Leopardi
>> carefully :D
> 
> Sadly, no. But having exposed my ignorance, I guess I better :)
> 
> c
>



From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 15:13:58 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:13:58 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
Message-ID: <46c.27116b90.32d15d06@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/6/2007 8:56:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

I will touch things and things and no more  thoughts
That breed like mouthless May-flies darkening the sky.
The  insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
So that they cannot strike,  hardly can fly.
Things are the hawk's food and noble is the mountain,  
Oh noble 
Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of  marble.


 
This poem is wonderful. Our thoughts tend to be illusions.What better  than 
the ones that do not strike. ~Raven
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Sat Jan  6 16:33:02 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 15:33:02 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry]  Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0701051027v4c43256fn36aef2f8dbda29b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c731da$4447dba0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

The 2001 _Selected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers_, Stanford UP, Tim Hunt ed. is
a fine paperback edition (ISBN 0-8047-3890-4) can be had for about $16
used. It includes some of the best long narrative poetry of the 20th century
(right up there with a half-a-dozen Frost poems I think) as well as a full
selection of Jeffers's short lyric poetry. 

 

One evolution of his thinking that I seemed to find the book is from
Jeffers's clear disgust with humanity to his realization that man is part of
nature as well as hawk or cliff (in this way he parallels Olson), and that
seen in this regard, man's no more repulsive and any other part, though his
belief that he is greater in some way than nature, or that he "matters"
beyond the other natural elements is disgusting and at times comic. Man's
just anther "wave," Jeffers seems to contend in his later work, which will
come and pass in its time. He wrote this during WWII:

 

 

 

Calm and Full the Ocean

 

Calm and full the ocean under the cool dark sky; quiet rocks and the birds
fishing; the night herons

Have flown home to their wood . . . while east and west in Europe and Asia
and the islands unimaginable agonies

 

Consume mankind. Not a few thousand but uncounted millions, not a day but
years, pain, horror, sick hatred;

Famine that dries the children to little bones and huge eyes; high explosive
that fountains dirt, flesh and bone-splinters.

 

Sane and intact the seasons pursue their course, autumn slopes to December,
the rains will fall

And the grass flourish, with flowers in it; as if man's world were perfectly
separate from nature's, private and mad.

 

But that's not true; even the P-38s and the Flying Fortresses are as natural
as horse-flies;

It is only that man, his griefs and rages, are not what they seem to man,
not great and shattering, but really

 

Too small to produce any disturbance. This is good. This is the sanity, the
mercy. It is true that the murdered

Cities leave marks in the earth for a certain time, like fossil rain-prints
in shale, equally beautiful.

 

 

 

Perhaps not a great Jeffers poem (though I like the sweeping movement), but
it shows his later thinking, I believe. And yet he is also prey to human
love, implicitly showing deep sadness and fear for his sons in April 1938
when he thinks of the coming destruction in "Contemplation of the Sword"
(before returning to his dark fatalism):

 

(just the last section)

 

. . . I have two sons whom I love, They are twins, they were born in
nineteen-sixteen, which seemed to us a dark year

Of a great war, and they are now at that age

That war prefers. The first born is like his mother, he is so beautiful

That persons I hardly know have stopped me in the street to speak of the
grave beauty of the boy's face.

The second born has strength for his beauty; when he strips for swimming,
the hero shoulders and wrestler loins

Make him seem clothed. The sword: that is: loathsome disfigurements,
blindness, mutilation, locked lips of boys

Too proud to scream.

 

Reason will not decide at last: the sword will decide.



 

 

 

 

 

 

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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 17:18:20 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:18:20 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Alcosser, Montana's Laureate
Message-ID: <c3b.b73db89.32d17a2c@aol.com>

_http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007/01/05/helena/000poetry.txt_ 
(http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007/01/05/helena/000poetry.txt) 
 
For one day at Capitol, poetry trumps politics
By ANGELA BRANDT - IR  Staff Writer - 01/05/07
Although Florence resident Sandra Alcosser?s position  as Montana?s first 
poet laureate is unpaid, she said she is not impoverished as  a result.
 
Alcosser said ?people have sympathy? and she is gifted with homemade  
Italian bread and emu oil soap from sellers at a farmer?s market near her house  
among other perks that come with the post. Workers from a library in Bozeman  
heard about a trip she was taking as part of her laureateship and raised $50 to  
aid her in getting gussied for the occasion with a new dress.
 
Alcosser is hoping the second state poet laureate will not have to rely on  
the kindness of strangers and acquaintances. She traveled to Helena Thursday to 
 speak to legislators about funding for the position. After reading a few of 
her  works, Alcosser received a standing ovation from both the state Senate 
and the  House of Representatives.
 
She did not come to the Capitol alone.
 
?I decided to invite all of the state?s poets to read under the beautiful  
rotunda. I wanted a celebration,? Alcosser said proceeding Montana Poetry: A  
Celebration, which was hosted by the poet  laureate.

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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 17:27:24 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:27:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Joseph Kalar
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701061427i64369b02k9b07d3204c9671d8@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph Kalar shows up on Poetry Daily today.  I'm glad that the Ted
Genoways-edited volume of Kalar's poetry finally came out.  I first read
Kalar's work in Cary Nelson's anthology, a poem called "Papermill," I
think.  I believe that I've posted it before.

Anyway, I've posted the poem below.

Jeff Newberry







Now That Snow Is Falling







    O the sky shall crack with laughter

    now that snow is falling,

    and all small timid things shall scent

    frozen petals of white and feel

    knifeblades of cold sink into fur;

    yes, the bear shall suck his toes,

    and ants will sleep.

    If the sun, coming slowly after,

    warms flies from frozen lethargy

    to crawl again upon window panes,

    and you and I, hand in hand,

    shall make tracks in the snow,

    woolen gloves, and necks bound warmly

    against knifeblades of cold, and we

    shall say: O most surely is the snow

    beautiful, and ask, what can we say

    now that snow is falling, and all

    the world is white, and clean, and beautiful,

    what can we say but that snow is beautiful

    and snow tingles the sleepy blood

    into new surging awareness?what can

    we say if the sky is most suddenly rent

    with laughter, trees crack with mirth,

    and sparrows chatter in derision, as

    a man walks by us clad thinly, shivering,

    hungry, vainly searching for bread,

    a job, and warm fires; what can we say,

    if such a man passes us bowed against

    the wind, and another, and yet more,

    until he is as a multitude, a sad parade

    of hungry, cold, vague faces? What can we

    say, now that snow is falling?





    Joseph Kalar

   * **Papermill*

    Edited by Ted Genoways

    University of Illinois Press


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From bmarcacci at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 18:41:12 2007
From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 07:41:12 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0701061138q44866882s7f5a5e4695825b13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1C65498.3A2A%bmarcacci@gmail.com>

yeah, i agree... what a great combination... please, tell all!

-- 
Bob Marcacci

It may, incidentally, be observed that the regularity of a habit
is usually in direct proportion to its absurdity.
 - Marcel Proust


> From: Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:38:57 -0500
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
> 
> Tad,
> 
> That sounds really interesting.  Whom else did you pair?
> 
> Jeff Newberry
> 
> 
> On 1/6/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>> 
>>  I taught a course once which I called "The American Bard," in which I
>> looked at six pairings of poets and songwriters. One of them was
>> Jeffers-Guthrie, which was interesting in that you had two bards who
>> celebrated the same area of northern California, but they could have been
>> two different worlds -- Jeffers seeing the place rather than the people,
>> Guthrie seeing only the people.
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* JforJames at aol.com
>> *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:55 AM
>> *Subject:* [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> RETURN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A little too abstract, a little too wise,
>> It is time for us to kiss the earth again.
>> It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies,
>> Let the rich life run to the roots again.
>> I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
>> And dip my arms in them up to the shoulders.
>> I will find my accounting where the alder leaf quivers
>> In the ocean wind over the river boulders.
>> I will touch things and things and no more thoughts
>> That breed like mouthless May-flies darkening the sky.
>> The insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
>> So that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
>> Things are the hawk's food and noble is the mountain,
>>    Oh noble
>> Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of marble.
>> 
>>  ------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
> longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
> 
> 
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





From duemer at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 19:32:25 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 19:32:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Alcosser, Montana's Laureate
In-Reply-To: <c3b.b73db89.32d17a2c@aol.com>
References: <c3b.b73db89.32d17a2c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701061632j316bd27tffb27a906dad94bf@mail.gmail.com>

Sweet. Sandra is an old friend. Congratulations to her & to Montana for
having the good taste to name her to the position.



On 1/6/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007/01/05/helena/000poetry.txt
>
> For one day at Capitol, poetry trumps politics
> By ANGELA BRANDT - IR Staff Writer - 01/05/07
> Although Florence resident Sandra Alcosser's position as Montana's first
> poet laureate is unpaid, she said she is not impoverished as a result.
>
> Alcosser said "people have sympathy" and she is gifted with homemade
> Italian bread and emu oil soap from sellers at a farmer's market near her
> house among other perks that come with the post. Workers from a library in
> Bozeman heard about a trip she was taking as part of her laureateship and
> raised $50 to aid her in getting gussied for the occasion with a new dress.
>
> Alcosser is hoping the second state poet laureate will not have to rely on
> the kindness of strangers and acquaintances. She traveled to Helena Thursday
> to speak to legislators about funding for the position. After reading a few
> of her works, Alcosser received a standing ovation from both the state
> Senate and the House of Representatives.
>
> She did not come to the Capitol alone.
>
> "I decided to invite all of the state's poets to read under the beautiful
> rotunda. I wanted a celebration," Alcosser said proceeding Montana Poetry: A
> Celebration, which was hosted by the poet laureate.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan  6 19:33:52 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 19:33:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
References: <d2c.3d42d13.32d12e6e@aol.com><018f01c731b5$2046a210$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<731bb17a0701061138q44866882s7f5a5e4695825b13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007501c731f3$820973e0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Trying to remember. I know I did Robert Frost and Robert Johnson, looking at regional vernacular and themes of salvation and damnation. And I did Merle Haggard and Philip Levine -- the working man.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....


  Tad,

  That sounds really interesting.  Whom else did you pair?

  Jeff Newberry

   
  On 1/6/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote: 
    I taught a course once which I called "The American Bard," in which I looked at six pairings of poets and songwriters. One of them was Jeffers-Guthrie, which was interesting in that you had two bards who celebrated the same area of northern California, but they could have been two different worlds -- Jeffers seeing the place rather than the people, Guthrie seeing only the people. 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: JforJames at aol.com 
      To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
      Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:55 AM
      Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....

       
      RETURN



      A little too abstract, a little too wise,
      It is time for us to kiss the earth again.
      It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies, 
      Let the rich life run to the roots again.
      I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
      And dip my arms in them up to the shoulders.
      I will find my accounting where the alder leaf quivers
      In the ocean wind over the river boulders. 
      I will touch things and things and no more thoughts
      That breed like mouthless May-flies darkening the sky.
      The insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
      So that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
      Things are the hawk's food and noble is the mountain, 
         Oh noble 
      Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of marble.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      _______________________________________________
      New-Poetry mailing list
      New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
      http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






  -- 
  "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
  ?William Faulkner, Light in August


  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Jan  6 19:37:20 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 19:37:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
In-Reply-To: <007501c731f3$820973e0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <d2c.3d42d13.32d12e6e@aol.com>
	<018f01c731b5$2046a210$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<731bb17a0701061138q44866882s7f5a5e4695825b13@mail.gmail.com>
	<007501c731f3$820973e0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701061637kf5022b3x8ac60700e73caafb@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting pairing--Frost and Johnson.

Haggard and Levine make perfect sense.  Both even write about the same
themes.  I mean, Levine himself could have written "Working Man Blues."



Jeff Newberry


On 1/6/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>  Trying to remember. I know I did Robert Frost and Robert Johnson, looking
> at regional vernacular and themes of salvation and damnation. And I did
> Merle Haggard and Philip Levine -- the working man.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>  *Sent:* Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
>
>
> Tad,
>
> That sounds really interesting.  Whom else did you pair?
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
>
> On 1/6/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
> >
> >  I taught a course once which I called "The American Bard," in which I
> > looked at six pairings of poets and songwriters. One of them was
> > Jeffers-Guthrie, which was interesting in that you had two bards who
> > celebrated the same area of northern California, but they could have been
> > two different worlds -- Jeffers seeing the place rather than the people,
> > Guthrie seeing only the people.
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* JforJames at aol.com
> > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:55 AM
> > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] A little too abstract, a little too wise....
> >
> >
> >
> > RETURN
> >
> >
> >
> > A little too abstract, a little too wise,
> > It is time for us to kiss the earth again.
> > It is time to let the leaves rain from the skies,
> > Let the rich life run to the roots again.
> > I will go down to the lovely Sur rivers
> > And dip my arms in them up to the shoulders.
> > I will find my accounting where the alder leaf quivers
> > In the ocean wind over the river boulders.
> > I will touch things and things and no more thoughts
> > That breed like mouthless May-flies darkening the sky.
> > The insect clouds that blind our passionate hawks
> > So that they cannot strike, hardly can fly.
> > Things are the hawk's food and noble is the mountain,
> >    Oh noble
> > Pico Blanco, steep sea-wave of marble.
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
> recollects, longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
> http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 20:52:20 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:52:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream flavors
In-Reply-To: <200701070008.l0708o8X020609@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <970448.79065.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"Alex, thanks for that background to the quote... 
Who are the French poets most important to you
be they barbaric and wild or tame and bourgeois?"

Finnegan,
There are lots of good ones. Me personally? See
Corbiere, Max Jacob, Damas and Guillevic, below.
Caveat: I am entirely aware that this entire list is
composed of white men with the exception of Damas, all
from the late 19th- and 20th-c (gotta stop somewhere).
Most of them are also dead (more recent poets tend to
be tough to find in translation, to say the least).
I'd be the first to deplore the backwardness of the
French, and although I'm sure Cesaire and Senghor are
amazing, they've never much appealed to me. I wish I
knew Andree Chedid's work better, as what I've read of
it is lovely (fabulous political poet, too, one of the
best), but the fact is the women are simply few and
far between, for various (all of them silly) reasons.
Anyway, it's not my fault, I swear. I've tried to
exclude most of the really obvious ones (Apollinaire,
Rimbaud, Stephane Mallarme, Baudelaire, Lautreamont,
Reverdy, Jules Supervielle...).
Second note: if you dislike peremptory judgments, this
might bother you. But _I_ had loads of fun playing
judge/jury/executioner, at least. 

Max Jacob (of the underfamous Dice Cup, translated --
now unfindable -- into English by Ashbery, admired by
O'Hara and the NYClub among others, but he wrote all
kinds of wonderful and vary diff. things)

Tristan Corbiere -- incredibly, mind-bogglingly
under-rated virtulently anti-romantic breton poet
c1873 (same date of pub. as Rimbaud's Season -- but
even *better* if you ask me!), recently re-translated
into English under the title _Wry-Blue Loves_ in what
looks like a very talented trans. (I only got a quick
glimpse of it, unfortunately). Admired, back in the
day, by Eliot, Corbiere's first translator...

Leon Gontran Damas -- the most under-read, and in my
opinion by far the most compelling, of the three
Negritude poets (Cesaire, Senghor, and Damas). I've
unfortunately not yet read all of Pigments, but the
few pieces I'm acquainted with are among my favorite
poems in the language.

Eugene Guillevic -- my personal favorite minimalist
poet: sort of the French Creeley, if you will. Try
_Sphere_ or _Carnac_, they're my favorites.

Contemporary poets, generally not translated (or very
little): I'd recommend Philippe Beck, Jean-Claude
Pinson, James Sacre, David Christoffel, Henri Droguet,
Jacques Demarq, Jacques Roubaud and a few others. Some
of these recent poets I've discussed on my blog once
or twice. Try Duration Press or Double Change, they
might have some.

Poets I don't care for: Bonnefoy's over-rated, much
too _solemn_. Rimbaud's been so terribly overdone, and
over-mythified, argh! He was a punk, then he was a
gun-runner. Verlaine's *okay*, I guess. Hugo: pompous,
often in bad taste, but hard to avoid. Leconte de
Lisle: overblown, never uses a noun w/o a qualifier. 

French-English bilingual poets: see Taking the Brim, a
blog of mostly canadian writers, plus R. Federman and
P. Joris, of course.

Couple of other good names to remember: Rene Char,
Edmond Jabes, Geo Norge, Henri Michaux, Jean Tardieu,
Paul-Jean Toulet. Gee, there are so many
others...can't stop, help!

Happy reading! Questions welcome.
Amicalement,
Alex




www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 01:30:02 2007
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:30:02 -1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com>
References: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0701062230y4799a56elfd26e471772966b9@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> Of course, Chris, it's seen as beautiful to us...but beauty has got nothing
> to do with it. Jeffers often casts the natural things of the world in a
> romantic light
> and often infers nobility to their intentions/actions/states where those
> things
> are neutral or biologiically programmed. I love him anyway.

I can't make sense of this. I mean, I see what you are saying but I
don't see how it is contradicting what I said. Something can't be
beautiful and at the same time "beauty have nothing to do with it."
That's my very point-- the biologically programmed can be-- and often
is-- beautiful. And in that there is nobility... nobility, after all,
being another thing we create.

c


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 10:14:12 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:14:12 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Helen Vendler
References: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701062230y4799a56elfd26e471772966b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701c7326e$7d9cae00$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Here's an informative interview with Helen Vendler:  http://www.neh.gov/news/humanities/2004-05/criticscraft.html

Interesting that she says, "There were almost no poems about motherhood when I became a mother; and there were almost no poems about giving birth, which is an extraordinarily disturbing and moving and exalting experience full of emotions that nobody has clarified or even reflected on."

Jai Guru!,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 10:59:44 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:59:44 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
References: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701062230y4799a56elfd26e471772966b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401c73274$da301d90$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Addressing the claim that the human appendix has no function.

 Loren G. Martin, professor of physiology at Oklahoma State University on ScientificAmerican.com:  "What is the function of the human appendix?"
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000CAE56-7201-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7

Jai Guru,
LindaSue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Jan  7 12:31:01 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:31:01 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Strange Conversation
Message-ID: <2FB97A7D-0CB3-4659-8A3D-80B5E99B5969@ripon.edu>

I'd like to recommend a recent CD that will be of interest to those  
who are fascinated by the music / poetry boundary line.  It's  
*Strange Conversation* by Kris Delmhorst (Signature Sounds).   
Delmhorst is relatively new to me--a folkish sort, who has recorded  
with Peter Mulvey and Jeffrey Foucault (their joint CD called  
*Redbird* is also great).

Here's the Amazon page on the new one, where samples can be heard:

http://www.amazon.com/Strange-Conversation-Kris-Delmhorst/dp/ 
B000FGFUJU/sr=8-1/qid=1168188780/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3690770-9482043? 
ie=UTF8&s=music

Delmhorst sets a number of mostly canonical poems to music, but does  
so with great freedom.  I guess that many might more properly be  
called "imitations" rather than settings.   In any case, it's a  
lively, refreshingly unfussy record.  Poets covered range from  
Herrick, Byron, Whitman, and Browning through Cummings & Millay.  The  
Cummings ("Anyone lived in a pretty how town") is worth the price of  
the CD.

I think the Amazon review is right on target:

"Rarely has a songwriter joined forces with such a distinguished  
array of collaborators, as New England's Kris Delmhorst shares credit  
for this material with the likes of Lord Byron, Walt Whitman, George  
Eliot, E.E. Cummings, and Rumi. Yet never do these adaptations from  
poetry (and some prose) have a whiff of academic stuffiness about  
them. To the contrary--the album could be appreciated as much for its  
musical range as its literary inspiration, as Delmhorst transforms  
the Whitman passage she titles "Light of the Light" into exuberantly  
Beatlesque pop, matches Eliot with a Dixieland brass section on  
"Invisible Choir," gives Cummings's "Anyone Lived in a Pretty How  
Town" a ragtime playfulness that evokes memories of the jug band era,  
and turns the rousing closer of Rumi's "Everything Is Music" into a  
spirited campfire singalong. She adapts her voice to fit the material  
and the arrangements, from the breathy intimacy of "Since You Went  
Away" and the languid torch song "Tavern" (which draws as much from  
the style of Peggy Lee as the words of Edna St. Vincent Millay) to  
the edgy, wiry rock of "Water Water." --Don McLeese

==========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 12:47:31 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:47:31 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
In-Reply-To: <001401c73274$da301d90$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com>
	<9b1b9dab0701062230y4799a56elfd26e471772966b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<001401c73274$da301d90$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <648208b60701070947w13e572aehb5e75654aa6d6be8@mail.gmail.com>

Since "the appendix is used to re-create a 'sphincter muscle," culd we
claim that the appendix, unlike poetry, has a social function?

- Jim

On 1/7/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Addressing the claim that the human appendix has no function.
>
>  Loren G. Martin, professor of physiology at Oklahoma State University on
> ScientificAmerican.com:  "What is the function of the human appendix?"
> http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000CAE56-7201-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7
>
> Jai Guru,
> LindaSue
> _______________________________
> Blessings,
> Linda Sue Grimes
> Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
> Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
> Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
> Poetry at BellaOnline.com
> http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
> History at BellaOnline.com
> http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan  7 12:52:03 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:52:03 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
Message-ID: <be9.c10b403.32d28d43@aol.com>

I want to say that I've enjoyed the Jeffers jawing that has gone on
here...here's another one by Jeffers. The lineation is likely to be
somewhat messed up due to Jeffers extra-long lines.
Finnegan
 
AN ARTIST
 
That sculptor we knew, the passionate-eyed son of a quarryman,
Who  astonished Rome and Paris in his meteor youth and then was gone, at his 
high  ride of triumphs,
Without reason or good-bye: I have seen him again lately,  after twenty 
years, but not in Europe.
 
In desert hills I rode a horse slack-kneed with thirst. Down a steep slope  a 
dancing swarm
Of yellow butterflies over a shining rock made me hope water.  We slid down 
to the place,
The spring was bitter but the horse drunk. I  imagined wearings of an old 
path from that wet rock
Ran down the canyon; I  followed, soon they were lost, I came to a stone 
valley in which it seemed
No  man nor his mount had ever ventured, you wondered whether even a vulture?
d ever  spread sail there.
There were stones of strange form under a cleft in the far  hill; I tethered 
the horse to a rock
And scrambled over. A heap like a stone  torrent, a moraine,
But monstrously formed limbs of broken carving appeared  in the rock-fall, 
enormous breasts, defaced heads
Of giants, the eyes calm  through the brute veils of fracture. It was natural 
then to climb higher and go  in
Up the cleft gate. The canyon was a sheer-walled crack winding at the  
entrance, but around its bend
The walls grew dreadful with stone giants,  presences growing out of the 
rigid precipice, that strove
In dream between  stone and life, intense to cast their chaos?or to enter and 
 return?stone-fleshed, nerve-stretched
Great bodies ever more beautiful and  more heavy with pain, they seemed 
leading to some unbearable
Consummation of  the ecstasy?but there, troll among Titans, the bearded 
master of the place  accosted me
In a cold anger, a mallet in his hand, filthy and ragged. There  was no 
kindness in that man?s mind,
But after he had driven me down to the  entrance he spoke a little.
 
          The
merciless  sun had found the slot now
To hide in, and lit for the work of that stone  lamp-bowl a sky almost, I 
thought, abominably beautiful;
While our lost  artist we used to admire: for now I knew him: spoke of his 
passion.
 
  He said, ?Marble?
White marble is fit to model a  snow-mountain: let man be modest. Nor bronze: 
I am bound to have my tool
In  my material, no irrelevances. I found this pit of dark-gray freestone,  
fine-grained, and tough enough
To make sketches that under any weathering  will last my lifetime?
 
The town is eight miles off, I can fetch food and no one follows me home. I  
have water and a cave
Here; and no possible lack of material. I need,  therefore, nothing. As to 
companions, I make them.
And models? They are  seldom wanted; I know a Basque shepherd I sometimes 
use; and a woman of the  town.
What more? Sympathy? Praise? I have never desired them and also I have  never 
deserved them. I will not show you
More than the spalls you saw by  accident.
What I see is the  enormous beauty of things, but what I attempt
Is nothing to that. I am  helpless toward that.
It is only form in stone the mould of some ideal  humanity that might be 
worthy to be
Under that lightning, Animalcules that  God (if he were given to laughter) 
might omit  to laugh at.
 
Those children of my hands are tortured because they feel,? he said, ?the  
scorn of the outer magnificence.
They are giants in agony. They have seen  from my eyes
The man-destroying beauty of the dawns over their notch yonder,  and all the 
obliterating stars.
But in their eyes they have peace. I have  lived a little and I think 
Peace marrying pain alone can breed that  excellence in the luckless race 
might make it decent
To exist at all on the  star-lit stone breast.
 
       I hope,? he said, ?that when I  grow old and the chisel drops,
I may crawl out on the ledge of the rock and  die like a wolf.?
 
          These fragments  are all I can remember,
These in the flare of the desert evening. Having been  driven so brutally 
forth I never returned;
Yet I respect him enough to keep  his name and the place secret. I hope that 
some other traveller
May stumble  on that ravine of Titans after their maker has died. While he 
lives, let him  alone.
 
--Robinson Jeffers, Cawdor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers (Vol.  
1), edited by Tim Hunt, Stanford U. Press, 1988

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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan  7 13:02:25 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 13:02:25 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
Message-ID: <cc9.7aa1961.32d28fb1@aol.com>

 
Has anyone seen a poem in which the appendix is featured?
Poems have been written 'about' almost everything under the sun,
but I don't recall seeing the great 'appendix poem'. I once had
an idea of assembling an anthology called Ten Thousand Things
(after the Chinese notion that the universe was comprised of
10,000 things). I gave up when I still in the hundreds.
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
cervantes.james at gmail.com writes:

Since  "the appendix is used to re-create a 'sphincter muscle," culd we
claim that  the appendix, unlike poetry, has a social function?

- Jim

On  1/7/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>
> Addressing the claim that the human appendix  has no function.
>
>  Loren G. Martin, professor of  physiology at Oklahoma State University on
>  ScientificAmerican.com:  "What is the function of the human  appendix?"
>  
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000CAE56-7201-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7




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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan  7 14:18:07 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 14:18:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
References: <cc9.7aa1961.32d28fb1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c73290$907d5200$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Madeline.

He dialled something -- something - six.
"Nurse," he said, "It's an appen-dix!"
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix


  Has anyone seen a poem in which the appendix is featured?
  Poems have been written 'about' almost everything under the sun,
  but I don't recall seeing the great 'appendix poem'. I once had
  an idea of assembling an anthology called Ten Thousand Things
  (after the Chinese notion that the universe was comprised of
  10,000 things). I gave up when I still in the hundreds.
  Finnegan

  In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, cervantes.james at gmail.com writes:
    Since "the appendix is used to re-create a 'sphincter muscle," culd we
    claim that the appendix, unlike poetry, has a social function?

    - Jim

    On 1/7/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Addressing the claim that the human appendix has no function.
    >
    >  Loren G. Martin, professor of physiology at Oklahoma State University on
    > ScientificAmerican.com:  "What is the function of the human appendix?"
    > http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000CAE56-7201-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan  7 14:24:57 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 20:24:57 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
References: <cc9.7aa1961.32d28fb1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002601c73291$84f71320$a1aa3852@ANNY>

Poor Finnegan, still in the hundreds, this made me smile.

  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:02 PM


  Has anyone seen a poem in which the appendix is featured?
  Poems have been written 'about' almost everything under the sun,
  but I don't recall seeing the great 'appendix poem'. I once had
  an idea of assembling an anthology called Ten Thousand Things
  (after the Chinese notion that the universe was comprised of
  10,000 things). I gave up when I still in the hundreds.
  Finnegan

  In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:48:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, cervantes.james at gmail.com writes:
    Since "the appendix is used to re-create a 'sphincter muscle," culd we
    claim that the appendix, unlike poetry, has a social function?

    - Jim

    On 1/7/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Addressing the claim that the human appendix has no function.
    >
    >  Loren G. Martin, professor of physiology at Oklahoma State University on
    > ScientificAmerican.com:  "What is the function of the human appendix?"
    > http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000CAE56-7201-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan  7 15:06:39 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:06:39 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream
	flavors
Message-ID: <c8b.675ff41.32d2accf@aol.com>

 
Alex, thanks for the list and your remarks. I've got some of these poets 
in single volume translations, and some of the others I seen in  anthologies,
but some a new names to me. The anthologies I go to most for a fix 
of French poets are:
 
Modern French Poets, edited by Wallace Fowlie
French Symbolist Poetry, edited by John Porter Houston & Mona Tobin  Houston
Randon House Book of Twentieth Century Poetry, edited by Paul Auster
Modern Poets of France, edited by Louis Simpson
 
Fowlie makes this comment in his intro the Max Jacob's poems, "In his  
[Jacob's] 
Cornet ?  d?s (1917) he  he has left some of the finest prose poems in the  
language,
and in the preface of the book, a significant theory of the form of the  
prose poem."
Has anyone seen a translation of that preface? 
 
I've also got an
Introduction to the French Poets, Villon to Present Day, by Geoffrey  Brereton
This book is in English but cites the poems in  French without accompanying 
translation, 
so it's hard going for me. Either I've to got to track down the  translated 
poem 
among my books or I have to painstakingly 'half-translate' the piece  myself 
with my very meagre French and the help of a tattered Larousse de  Poche.
 
Someone on this list (or another list) once recommended 
Anchor Book Of French Quotations compiled by Norbert Guterman
and that book has been fun to browse; chockfull of poets,  writers, 
philosophers, other literati, quoted in French with English  translation.  

Finnegan
 
In a message dated 1/6/2007 8:52:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
alexdickow9 at yahoo.com writes:

"Alex, thanks for that  background to the quote... 
Who are the French poets most important to  you
be they barbaric and wild or tame and  bourgeois?"

Finnegan,
There are lots of good ones. Me personally?  See
Corbiere, Max Jacob, Damas and Guillevic, below.
Caveat: I am  entirely aware that this entire list is
composed of white men with the  exception of Damas, all
from the late 19th- and 20th-c (gotta stop  somewhere).
Most of them are also dead (more recent poets tend to
be  tough to find in translation, to say the least).
I'd be the first to  deplore the backwardness of the
French, and although I'm sure Cesaire and  Senghor are
amazing, they've never much appealed to me. I wish I
knew  Andree Chedid's work better, as what I've read of
it is lovely (fabulous  political poet, too, one of the
best), but the fact is the women are simply  few and
far between, for various (all of them silly) reasons.
Anyway,  it's not my fault, I swear. I've tried to
exclude most of the really  obvious ones (Apollinaire,
Rimbaud, Stephane Mallarme, Baudelaire,  Lautreamont,
Reverdy, Jules Supervielle...).
Second note: if you dislike  peremptory judgments, this
might bother you. But _I_ had loads of fun  playing
judge/jury/executioner, at least. 

Max Jacob (of the  underfamous Dice Cup, translated --
now unfindable -- into English by  Ashbery, admired by
O'Hara and the NYClub among others, but he wrote  all
kinds of wonderful and vary diff. things)

Tristan Corbiere --  incredibly, mind-bogglingly
under-rated virtulently anti-romantic breton  poet
c1873 (same date of pub. as Rimbaud's Season -- but
even *better*  if you ask me!), recently re-translated
into English under the title  _Wry-Blue Loves_ in what
looks like a very talented trans. (I only got a  quick
glimpse of it, unfortunately). Admired, back in the
day, by Eliot,  Corbiere's first translator...

Leon Gontran Damas -- the most  under-read, and in my
opinion by far the most compelling, of the  three
Negritude poets (Cesaire, Senghor, and Damas). I've
unfortunately  not yet read all of Pigments, but the
few pieces I'm acquainted with are  among my favorite
poems in the language.

Eugene Guillevic -- my  personal favorite minimalist
poet: sort of the French Creeley, if you will.  Try
_Sphere_ or _Carnac_, they're my favorites.

Contemporary poets,  generally not translated (or very
little): I'd recommend Philippe Beck,  Jean-Claude
Pinson, James Sacre, David Christoffel, Henri  Droguet,
Jacques Demarq, Jacques Roubaud and a few others. Some
of these  recent poets I've discussed on my blog once
or twice. Try Duration Press or  Double Change, they
might have some.

Poets I don't care for:  Bonnefoy's over-rated, much
too _solemn_. Rimbaud's been so terribly  overdone, and
over-mythified, argh! He was a punk, then he was  a
gun-runner. Verlaine's *okay*, I guess. Hugo: pompous,
often in bad  taste, but hard to avoid. Leconte de
Lisle: overblown, never uses a noun  w/o a qualifier. 

French-English bilingual poets: see Taking the Brim,  a
blog of mostly canadian writers, plus R. Federman and
P. Joris, of  course.

Couple of other good names to remember: Rene Char,
Edmond  Jabes, Geo Norge, Henri Michaux, Jean Tardieu,
Paul-Jean Toulet. Gee, there  are so many
others...can't stop, help!

Happy reading! Questions  welcome.
Amicalement,
Alex





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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan  7 15:39:54 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:39:54 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] New owners over at POETRYETC listserv
Message-ID: <bc6.a298f1d.32d2b49a@aol.com>

_http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/archives/poetryetc.html_ 
(http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/archives/poetryetc.html) 
 
Hey, I just saw that Anny Ballardini and Joe Duemer
will be taking over the list management duties of the PoetryEtc  List.
I'm glad that list didn't fold up shop as I was worried
it would...though I'm most a lurker on that list. 
Anyway, good luck to Anny and Joe. 
 
Feel free to cross-post anything you're doing over there
that might be of interest. I'm in favor of cross-pollination 
between poetry lists.
Finnegan
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan  7 16:24:56 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:24:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] New owners over at POETRYETC listserv
References: <bc6.a298f1d.32d2b49a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00e201c732a2$4797cd10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Wow...I need to sign up for it. How do I do that?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:39 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] New owners over at POETRYETC listserv


  http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/archives/poetryetc.html

  Hey, I just saw that Anny Ballardini and Joe Duemer
  will be taking over the list management duties of the PoetryEtc List.
  I'm glad that list didn't fold up shop as I was worried
  it would...though I'm most a lurker on that list. 
  Anyway, good luck to Anny and Joe. 

  Feel free to cross-post anything you're doing over there
  that might be of interest. I'm in favor of cross-pollination 
  between poetry lists.
  Finnegan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Sun Jan  7 16:50:28 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:50:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <200701070008.l0708o8X020609@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701070008.l0708o8X020609@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4434.71.240.126.98.1168206628.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still exists,
during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's got
that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed by
an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another one
unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory 
Ayn Rand exhorted.

R.D.



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan  7 17:10:56 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:10:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] New owners over at POETRYETC listserv
References: <bc6.a298f1d.32d2b49a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00ea01c732a8$b4dee6f0$a1aa3852@ANNY>

Thank you James! I was waiting for a couple of days to go by to know what it feels to be a co-manger :-(

It all happened in a couple of hours with a couple of mails, Joe can say that this is true. I also already wrote that I will be a little in the shadow and the main role is on the shoulders of Joe Duemer.

As a matter of fact I thought of your words when I interviewed you on Poetry Blogs. I did send in the link but on that day the server was down, forwarding again:
http://lowres.uno.edu/classes/cyberlit/papers/ballardini/opening.html

Thank you again James, the owner of my favorite poetry list!
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:39 PM


  http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/archives/poetryetc.html

  Hey, I just saw that Anny Ballardini and Joe Duemer
  will be taking over the list management duties of the PoetryEtc List.
  I'm glad that list didn't fold up shop as I was worried
  it would...though I'm most a lurker on that list. 
  Anyway, good luck to Anny and Joe. 

  Feel free to cross-post anything you're doing over there
  that might be of interest. I'm in favor of cross-pollination 
  between poetry lists.
  Finnegan
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan  7 17:13:28 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 23:13:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] New owners over at POETRYETC listserv
References: <bc6.a298f1d.32d2b49a@aol.com>
	<00e201c732a2$4797cd10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <00f901c732a9$0f30b2a0$a1aa3852@ANNY>


All right Tad, that is great.
I think you just have to click on the link James provided and then click on:
Join or leave the list (or change settings)

!
see you there, then, Anny
  From: TheOldMole 
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:24 PM


  Wow...I need to sign up for it. How do I do that?
    From: JforJames at aol.com 
    Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:39 PM


    http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/archives/poetryetc.html

    Hey, I just saw that Anny Ballardini and Joe Duemer
    will be taking over the list management duties of the PoetryEtc List.
    I'm glad that list didn't fold up shop as I was worried
    it would...though I'm most a lurker on that list. 
    Anyway, good luck to Anny and Joe. 

    Feel free to cross-post anything you're doing over there
    that might be of interest. I'm in favor of cross-pollination 
    between poetry lists.
    Finnegan
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan  7 12:27:54 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 12:27:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Helen Vendler
References: <c1e.d1830e2.32d1370d@aol.com><9b1b9dab0701062230y4799a56elfd26e471772966b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<000701c7326e$7d9cae00$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <003a01c73281$2a849350$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

>From the Vendler interview:

Cole: When I used to teach art history to non-majors, I always used to wonder what they would take away from it, say, in fifteen or twenty years when they were engineers or CEOs. I always wondered, what did they take away from it? What could I give them? Do you think about that? 

Vendler: I do think about it. The first thing I wanted to do was to ensure that my students enjoyed poetry and that they would think of it as a respectable intellectual endeavor, so that if a child of theirs some years later said, "I'm taking a creative writing course," they wouldn't say, "Ugh." They would say, "Oh, I remember I had a very interesting course in poetry" or something like that. They wouldn't be prejudiced against the genre; they'd think of it as a worthy endeavor for grownups. 

Secondly, I felt it might catch on with some of them. There are many people who have an avocation for poetry even though they're lawyers or doctors, as we know. In the future, my students might pick up books; they might read a certain author;they might go to a poetry reading. 





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Sue Grimes 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:14 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Helen Vendler


  Here's an informative interview with Helen Vendler:  http://www.neh.gov/news/humanities/2004-05/criticscraft.html

  Interesting that she says, "There were almost no poems about motherhood when I became a mother; and there were almost no poems about giving birth, which is an extraordinarily disturbing and moving and exalting experience full of emotions that nobody has clarified or even reflected on."

  Jai Guru!,
  Linda Sue
  _______________________________
  Blessings,
  Linda Sue Grimes
  Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
  Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
  Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
  Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
  History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sun Jan  7 19:30:23 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <4434.71.240.126.98.1168206628.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701070008.l0708o8X020609@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<4434.71.240.126.98.1168206628.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a@mail.gmail.com>

Jeffers was anti-liberal?

Jeff Newberry


On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>
> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still exists,
> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's got
> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed by
> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another one
> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>
> R.D.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From r_loden at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  7 21:46:59 2007
From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:46:59 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] the ten thousand things
In-Reply-To: <002601c73291$84f71320$a1aa3852@ANNY>
Message-ID: <02c801c732cf$4579d5a0$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE>

Yes, Finnegan, there's something exquisitely (and hilariously) poetic in
this--your exhausted surrender after, say, thing #359. I like to imagine it.
Thank you. There's a poem in it someplace and you have dibs.

Rachel Loden

________________________________

	Anny wrote:
		
	Poor Finnegan, still in the hundreds, this made me smile.

		 
		From: JforJames at aol.com 
		Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:02 PM

				Has anyone seen a poem in which the appendix
is featured?
		Poems have been written 'about' almost everything under the
sun,
		but I don't recall seeing the great 'appendix poem'. I once
had
		an idea of assembling an anthology called Ten Thousand
Things
		(after the Chinese notion that the universe was comprised of
		10,000 things). I gave up when I still in the hundreds.
		Finnegan
		 
		




From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  8 09:15:11 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 09:15:11 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
Message-ID: <c6d.904a95e.32d3abef@aol.com>

 
 
I'm big on big ideas that lapse away into oblivion. Fitzcarraldo and  me.
I hope it was clear that I was collecting poems by others for that  '10,000
Things' anthology project and not writing them all myself. The latter would  
be
beyond daunting. When I'm really clicking I manage a poem per week; a  rough 
calcuation 
would make it a minimum of 192+ years for me to write 10,000 poems.  Yikes,
a project for the ages and for the afterlife.
 
Finnegan

In a message dated 1/7/2007 2:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

Poor Finnegan, still in the hundreds, this made me smile.

 
From:  _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com)  
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:02  PM



Has anyone seen a poem in which the appendix is featured?
Poems have been written 'about' almost everything under the sun,
but I don't recall seeing the great 'appendix poem'. I once had
an idea of assembling an anthology called Ten Thousand Things
(after the Chinese notion that the universe was comprised of
10,000 things). I gave up when I still in the hundreds.
Finnegan





 
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From bmarcacci at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 09:34:43 2007
From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:34:43 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
In-Reply-To: <c6d.904a95e.32d3abef@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C1C87783.3AA5%bmarcacci@gmail.com>

a project for the aged, too, perhaps, FinneganJ...

i'm hoping to squirt out an appendix poem here... i promised my pregnant
wife as much...

i'm good for about one poem a week, as well... blew my average this week,
already with two on the books... i'm on a roll!

i'd like you to read my latest e-book at Unlikely 2.0
<http://www.unlikelystories.org/>...

-- 
Bob Marcacci

Our loyalties must transend our race, our tribe, our class, and our
nation; and this means we must develop a world perspective.
 - Martin Luther King, Jr.



> From: <JforJames at aol.com>
> Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 09:15:11 EST
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Function of the Human Appendix
> 
>  
>  
> I'm big on big ideas that lapse away into oblivion. Fitzcarraldo and  me.
> I hope it was clear that I was collecting poems by others for that  '10,000
> Things' anthology project and not writing them all myself. The latter would
> be
> beyond daunting. When I'm really clicking I manage a poem per week; a  rough
> calcuation 
> would make it a minimum of 192+ years for me to write 10,000 poems.  Yikes,
> a project for the ages and for the afterlife.
>  
> Finnegan
> 
> In a message dated 1/7/2007 2:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:
> 
> Poor Finnegan, still in the hundreds, this made me smile.
> 
>  
> From:  _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com)
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:02  PM
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen a poem in which the appendix is featured?
> Poems have been written 'about' almost everything under the sun,
> but I don't recall seeing the great 'appendix poem'. I once had
> an idea of assembling an anthology called Ten Thousand Things
> (after the Chinese notion that the universe was comprised of
> 10,000 things). I gave up when I still in the hundreds.
> Finnegan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 11:22:44 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 08:22:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] max jacob's preface, etc 
In-Reply-To: <200701081351.l08DpV8X021865@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <383801.97454.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Finnegan,
Your best bet might be Hesitant Fire: Selected Prose
of Max Jacob, out of print (I think) and pricey -- and
I don't even know if it's included. There's also a
William Kulik translated selection and another one
called Dreaming the Miracle, with some Ponge.
But to be honest, I don't know where you can find the
preface in English. Perhaps there is an anthology of
translated manifestos that would have it? Perhaps you
could struggle through it in French...?
I will add, though, since this relates to my
soon-to-be dissertation project, that that preface
is...quite problematic. Jacob's one of history's
slipperiest ironists, and although everyone takes the
preface quite seriously, I think it should be read cum
grano salis -- but anyways, that's just IMnotsoHO.
Oh, by the way, to anyone interested: for translations
of recent poets, it seems Green Integer has done some
very unusual stuff, Michaux for starters -- I haven't
looked in detail, but they seem like a great place for
exciting translations.
Anny, btw: those blog interviews are pretty cool. I'd
imagine someone must have mentioned this among the
fifteen or so respondants, but I for one am somewhat
disappointed with the lack of visible dialogue on
blogs. I find that people don't comment so much -- not
on my blog, and for the most part not elsewhere.
Wasn't that supposed to be one of the perks of blogs?
I'd be curious to know people's thoughts about this.
Oh, and speaking of translations and foreign poets,
I'm looking for Joaquin Pasos' "Poems by a Young Man
Who Doesn't Speak English" in English. And, if that's
impossible, a good single volume translation of Pasos.
Thanks!
Amicalement,
Alex
 

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  8 13:37:53 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:37:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream
	flavors
Message-ID: <51a.5bdd97f3.32d3e981@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/6/2007 8:52:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
alexdickow9 at yahoo.com writes:


Eugene Guillevic -- my personal favorite minimalist
poet: sort  of the French Creeley, if you will. Try
_Sphere_ or _Carnac_, they're my  favorites.


_http://www.bostonreview.net/BR25.5/sallis.html_ 
(http://www.bostonreview.net/BR25.5/sallis.html) 
 
Here's an book review of Guillevic (Creeley Fran?aise).
I also found that he's been translated by Denise Levertov.
Finnegan
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Mon Jan  8 14:29:33 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:29:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <be9.c10b403.32d28d43@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000501c7335b$59715ab0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

I was discussing this with a friend, Jay Karr, who said that Henry Taylor
visited Jeffers once and got a reception which matched the original
reception of this poem's narrator. The difference was that Jeffers didn't
bother to explain himself, as the artist does in the 2nd half of the poem.
All according to Taylor, at is.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:52 AM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robinson Jeffers

 

I want to say that I've enjoyed the Jeffers jawing that has gone on

here...here's another one by Jeffers. The lineation is likely to be

somewhat messed up due to Jeffers extra-long lines.

Finnegan

 

AN ARTIST

 

That sculptor we knew, the passionate-eyed son of a quarryman,
Who astonished Rome and Paris in his meteor youth and then was gone, at his
high ride of triumphs,
Without reason or good-bye: I have seen him again lately, after twenty
years, but not in Europe.

 

In desert hills I rode a horse slack-kneed with thirst. Down a steep slope a
dancing swarm
Of yellow butterflies over a shining rock made me hope water. We slid down
to the place,
The spring was bitter but the horse drunk. I imagined wearings of an old
path from that wet rock
Ran down the canyon; I followed, soon they were lost, I came to a stone
valley in which it seemed
No man nor his mount had ever ventured, you wondered whether even a
vulture'd ever spread sail there.
There were stones of strange form under a cleft in the far hill; I tethered
the horse to a rock
And scrambled over. A heap like a stone torrent, a moraine,
But monstrously formed limbs of broken carving appeared in the rock-fall,
enormous breasts, defaced heads
Of giants, the eyes calm through the brute veils of fracture. It was natural
then to climb higher and go in
Up the cleft gate. The canyon was a sheer-walled crack winding at the
entrance, but around its bend
The walls grew dreadful with stone giants, presences growing out of the
rigid precipice, that strove
In dream between stone and life, intense to cast their chaos.or to enter and
return.stone-fleshed, nerve-stretched
Great bodies ever more beautiful and more heavy with pain, they seemed
leading to some unbearable
Consummation of the ecstasy.but there, troll among Titans, the bearded
master of the place accosted me
In a cold anger, a mallet in his hand, filthy and ragged. There was no
kindness in that man's mind,
But after he had driven me down to the entrance he spoke a little.

 

          The
 merciless sun had found the slot now
To hide in, and lit for the work of that stone lamp-bowl a sky almost, I
thought, abominably beautiful;
While our lost artist we used to admire: for now I knew him: spoke of his
passion.

 

  He said, "Marble?
White marble is fit to model a snow-mountain: let man be modest. Nor bronze:
I am bound to have my tool
In my material, no irrelevances. I found this pit of dark-gray freestone,
fine-grained, and tough enough
To make sketches that under any weathering will last my lifetime.

 

The town is eight miles off, I can fetch food and no one follows me home. I
have water and a cave
Here; and no possible lack of material. I need, therefore, nothing. As to
companions, I make them.
And models? They are seldom wanted; I know a Basque shepherd I sometimes
use; and a woman of the town.
What more? Sympathy? Praise? I have never desired them and also I have never
deserved them. I will not show you
More than the spalls you saw by accident.
       What I see is the enormous beauty of things, but what I attempt
Is nothing to that. I am helpless toward that.
It is only form in stone the mould of some ideal humanity that might be
worthy to be
Under that lightning, Animalcules that God (if he were given to laughter)
might omit  to laugh at.

 

Those children of my hands are tortured because they feel," he said, "the
scorn of the outer magnificence.
They are giants in agony. They have seen from my eyes
The man-destroying beauty of the dawns over their notch yonder, and all the
obliterating stars.
But in their eyes they have peace. I have lived a little and I think 
Peace marrying pain alone can breed that excellence in the luckless race
might make it decent
To exist at all on the star-lit stone breast.

 

       I hope," he said, "that when I grow old and the chisel drops,
I may crawl out on the ledge of the rock and die like a wolf."

 

          These fragments are all I can remember,
These in the flare of the desert evening. Having been driven so brutally
forth I never returned;
Yet I respect him enough to keep his name and the place secret. I hope that
some other traveller
May stumble on that ravine of Titans after their maker has died. While he
lives, let him alone.

 

--Robinson Jeffers, Cawdor, The Collected Poetry of Robinson Jeffers (Vol.
1), edited by Tim Hunt, Stanford U. Press, 1988

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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  8 15:44:44 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:44:44 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mandatory LitCrit for MFAers?
Message-ID: <c71.9ecaf9d.32d4073c@aol.com>

_http://afterthemfa.com/archives/get-off-the-lit-crit-tip.html_ 
(http://afterthemfa.com/archives/get-off-the-lit-crit-tip.html) 
 
Don't let an education get in the way of your creative  writing.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan  8 16:05:03 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:05:03 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] max jacob's preface, etc 
References: <383801.97454.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006a01c73368$aad2b720$6c8f3052@ANNY>

Hi ami Alex,

yes, and no, to answer your question. As a matter of fact there are several contradicting answers, which makes the work interesting.
Objectively and from the outside and the inside (since I am also a blogger) I noticed that several did not speak outright on this point as you are doing. There is a sort of Leopardi syndrome among poets, that if something does not work as it should then it is due to me, to the world, to the existential air of our breathing, ...
Not that this disturbs me, nor do I praise such an attitude, I am just considering.
On the other hand James for one, as I said before, highlights the difference in-between blogs and lists to show how much more lively lists are, with the "dialogue" you say blogs miss. Bob Grumman, to stay on this list, complains of the lack of comments. 
...


From: "Alexander Dickow" <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:22 PM

> Anny, btw: those blog interviews are pretty cool. I'd
> imagine someone must have mentioned this among the
> fifteen or so respondants, but I for one am somewhat
> disappointed with the lack of visible dialogue on
> blogs. I find that people don't comment so much -- not
> on my blog, and for the most part not elsewhere.
> Wasn't that supposed to be one of the perks of blogs?
> I'd be curious to know people's thoughts about this.
> Oh, and speaking of translations and foreign poets,
> I'm looking for Joaquin Pasos' "Poems by a Young Man
> Who Doesn't Speak English" in English. And, if that's
> impossible, a good single volume translation of Pasos.
> Thanks!
> Amicalement,
> Alex
> 
> 
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>   
>  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 16:26:09 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:26:09 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
Message-ID: <648208b60701081326s119c989di73bbb7004cef084f@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations!  The poems "Against God" [David Graham,
http://www.poetserv.org/SRR24/graham.html]  and "Letter to Layne from
Tucson" [Matt Sadler, http://www.poetserv.org/SRR23/sadler.html] from
Salt River Review were chosen by poet Paul Guest to be included in the
2006 Best of the Net Anthology.  They will be reprinted along with
twenty other poems and showcased for the next year on the Best of the
Net website.

If you would like a brief summary of your journal included, please
send us an email with said information, and it will appear alongside
the poem as of January 15, 2007.

Again, congratulations!  And thank you for your continued support of
online publishing.

Sincerely,
Erin Elizabeth Smith
Managing Editor, Best of the Net
http://www.sundress.net/bestof/

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  8 16:51:40 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:51:40 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
Message-ID: <c08.e39373c.32d416ec@aol.com>

 

Particularly liked that concluding image, David...
 
With me it's enough, some days, that I lift
my eyes to both streetlamp  and vagrant star,
that somewhere in my closet is a coat
owned by my father  when he was my age,
long soaked in darkness and his smell,
a coat I can  neither discard nor wear.
--
 
Jim,
How long have you been publishing Salt?
Congrats to you too for your efforts.
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 1/8/2007 4:26:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
cervantes.james at gmail.com writes:

Congratulations!  The  poems "Against God" [David  Graham,
http://www.poetserv.org/SRR24/graham.html]  and "Letter to  Layne from
Tucson" [Matt Sadler, http://www.poetserv.org/SRR23/sadler.html]  from
Salt River Review were chosen by poet Paul Guest to be included in  the
2006 Best of the Net Anthology.  They will be reprinted along  with
twenty other poems and showcased for the next year on the Best of  the
Net website.

If you would like a brief summary of your journal  included, please
send us an email with said information, and it will appear  alongside
the poem as of January 15, 2007.

Again,  congratulations!  And thank you for your continued support of
online  publishing.


 
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Mon Jan  8 18:06:38 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:06:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <200701081351.l08DpV8X021865@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701081351.l08DpV8X021865@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4829.71.240.126.98.1168297598.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
"The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
Roger Baldwin.

Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
who stand in the RadLib camp.

Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.

It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
politics of American art, IMHO.

RD


>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)


> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
>
> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>> exists,
>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>> got
>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>> by
>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another one
>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>
>> R.D.
>>

> --
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
> recollects,
> longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
>



From elemenope at icubed.com  Mon Jan  8 18:07:42 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:07:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
In-Reply-To: <200701081351.l08DpV8X021865@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701081351.l08DpV8X021865@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4832.71.240.126.98.1168297662.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
"The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
Roger Baldwin.

Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
who stand in the RadLib camp.

Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.

It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
politics of American art, IMHO.

RD


>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)


> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
>
> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>> exists,
>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>> got
>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>> by
>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another one
>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>
>> R.D.
>>

> --
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
> recollects,
> longer than knowing even wonders."
> ?William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
>



From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Jan  8 18:25:06 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:25:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
Message-ID: <cc0.8497009.32d42cd2@aol.com>

I'm not an expert, but I think Jeffers was 
more in sympathy with libertarian
and isolationist views. See here:
_http://www.jeffers.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5_ 
(http://www.jeffers.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5) 
He  spent much of youth in Old Europe before
WWI in boarding schools. From California, he 
probably watched in horror as the assasination 
of Archduke Ferdinand touched off the worst kind 
of war.
Finnegan
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Jan  8 19:48:06 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:48:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mandatory LitCrit for MFAers?
References: <c71.9ecaf9d.32d4073c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <009701c73387$d3acfec0$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

"I will tell you that I spent too much time reading a one novel a week and preparing papers and presentations and researching said papers and presentations in the library. What suffered in the meantime? My own writing."

Poor baby....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:44 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Mandatory LitCrit for MFAers?


  http://afterthemfa.com/archives/get-off-the-lit-crit-tip.html

  Don't let an education get in the way of your creative writing.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Jan  8 19:49:25 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:49:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
References: <648208b60701081326s119c989di73bbb7004cef084f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c73388$02adec70$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Congrats James and David. Well deserved.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
To: "new-poetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler


> Congratulations!  The poems "Against God" [David Graham,
> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR24/graham.html]  and "Letter to Layne from
> Tucson" [Matt Sadler, http://www.poetserv.org/SRR23/sadler.html] from
> Salt River Review were chosen by poet Paul Guest to be included in the
> 2006 Best of the Net Anthology.  They will be reprinted along with
> twenty other poems and showcased for the next year on the Best of the
> Net website.
> 
> If you would like a brief summary of your journal included, please
> send us an email with said information, and it will appear alongside
> the poem as of January 15, 2007.
> 
> Again, congratulations!  And thank you for your continued support of
> online publishing.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Erin Elizabeth Smith
> Managing Editor, Best of the Net
> http://www.sundress.net/bestof/
> 
> -- Jim
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan  9 01:55:57 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 07:55:57 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
References: <648208b60701081326s119c989di73bbb7004cef084f@mail.gmail.com>
	<00b901c73388$02adec70$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <004701c733bb$370b8030$c9a33852@ANNY>

Yes, congratulations to both of you.

From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:49 AM


> Congrats James and David. Well deserved.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
> To: "new-poetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 4:26 PM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
> 
> 
>> Congratulations!  The poems "Against God" [David Graham,
>> http://www.poetserv.org/SRR24/graham.html]  and "Letter to Layne from
>> Tucson" [Matt Sadler, http://www.poetserv.org/SRR23/sadler.html] from
>> Salt River Review were chosen by poet Paul Guest to be included in the
>> 2006 Best of the Net Anthology.  They will be reprinted along with
>> twenty other poems and showcased for the next year on the Best of the
>> Net website.
>> 
>> If you would like a brief summary of your journal included, please
>> send us an email with said information, and it will appear alongside
>> the poem as of January 15, 2007.
>> 
>> Again, congratulations!  And thank you for your continued support of
>> online publishing.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Erin Elizabeth Smith
>> Managing Editor, Best of the Net
>> http://www.sundress.net/bestof/
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
>> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
>> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
>> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>>



From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 07:37:23 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 05:37:23 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
In-Reply-To: <c08.e39373c.32d416ec@aol.com>
References: <c08.e39373c.32d416ec@aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60701090437q4469df25n6b82278625c1cbc@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/8/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Particularly liked that concluding image, David...
>
> With me it's enough, some days, that I lift
> my eyes to both streetlamp and vagrant star,
> that somewhere in my closet is a coat
> owned by my father when he was my age,
> long soaked in darkness and his smell,
> a coat I can neither discard nor wear.
> --
>
> Jim,
> How long have you been publishing Salt?
> Congrats to you too for your efforts.

First issue was Winter, 1997-08, so it'll be 10 years next year at
this time.  Our Winter, 2006-07 should be online within the next 24
hours.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 10:15:31 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:15:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
References: <200701081351.l08DpV8X021865@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<4832.71.240.126.98.1168297662.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <000801c73401$01d3fc30$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

R.D. wrote: "I will not name in this post poets and writers
who stand in the RadLib camp."

Please, go ahead and name them...

Jai Guru,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <elemenope at icubed.com>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers


> Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
> the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
> the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
> "The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
> entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
> Roger Baldwin.
> 
> Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
> congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
> anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
> who stand in the RadLib camp.
> 
> Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.
> 
> It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
> politics of American art, IMHO.
> 
> RD
> 
> 
>>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)
> 
> 
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
>> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
>> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Message-ID:
>> <731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
>>
>> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>>> exists,
>>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>>> got
>>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>>> by
>>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another one
>>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>>
>>> R.D.
>>>
> 
>> --
>> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
>> recollects,
>> longer than knowing even wonders."
>> -William Faulkner, Light in August
>>
>>
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 10:30:49 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 08:30:49 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Winter, 2006-07 issue of The Salt River Review
Message-ID: <648208b60701090730v7f9d6286oe295accb8e819044@mail.gmail.com>

Announcing the Winter, 2006-07 issue of The Salt River Review:

Poetry by Laura Jensen, James Willis, Jim Gourley,Lynn Strongin,
Zo? Gabriel, Pamela Stewart,Lyn Lifshin, & Pablo Neruda, translated by
Carlos Reyes.

Fiction by Marc Lowe, Douglas Cole, Nick Goulding, & Carol Novack.

Non-fiction by Mark Wekander & Antoinette Nora Claypoole.

The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org/

Please feel free to forward this.



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan  9 11:27:17 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:27:17 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RMN
Message-ID: <A29302E8-F2AF-4E92-9B17-C9292C71A5D8@ripon.edu>

It's the birthday of Richard Nixon.  Everyone please go read Rachel  
Loden.



==========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  9 11:32:15 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:32:15 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
Message-ID: <d00.6b5a50f.32d51d8f@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/9/2007 7:37:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
cervantes.james at gmail.com writes:

First  issue was Winter, 1997-08, so it'll be 10 years next year at
this  time.  Our Winter, 2006-07 should be online within the next  24
hours.



That's a nice run, Jim. You must have been one the earlier entries
in web litmag arena.
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  9 11:44:25 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:44:25 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
Message-ID: <c55.ba20c6d.32d52069@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/9/2007 11:32:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

 
First  issue was Winter, 1997-08, so it'll be 10 years next year at
this  time.  Our Winter, 2006-07 should be online within the next  24
hours.



That's a nice run, Jim. You must have been one the earlier entries
in web litmag arena.



Come to think about it, if you & Salt were on the web in 97-98,  you
probably had venture capitalists knocking on your door trying to
take you public. Unless the 'irrational exuberance' of those  heady
days bypassed the poetry websites. 
Don't burst my bubble,
Finnegan 
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Tue Jan  9 13:19:47 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:19:47 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <4829.71.240.126.98.1168297598.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <002701c7341a$c499b430$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Hmmm.

I'm probably what you might call RadLib, but I like Jeffers. As well as
Frost and Faulkner. Pound and Eliot. (I named my son after Pound.) Love
Marianne Moore and Hemingway. Not Ryan. Just what DOES that make me? (Well,
. . . a lover of good writing for one thing.)

And one reason I've enjoyed this list is its openness to a variety of
writers, even those rather quickly dismissed by the Buffalo list. Those who
I might be dismissive of had I not read "Poems by Others," for instance, and
what everyone else has posted. I can try, in most cases successfully, to
find the value in these.

It was Voltaire more than any other who changed tolerance from a vice into a
virtue. Lovely man.

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
elemenope at icubed.com
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:07 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15

Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
"The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
Roger Baldwin.

Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
who stand in the RadLib camp.

Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.

It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
politics of American art, IMHO.

RD


>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)


> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
>
> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>> exists,
>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>> got
>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>> by
>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another one
>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>
>> R.D.
>>

> --
> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
> recollects,
> longer than knowing even wonders."
> -William Faulkner, Light in August
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 13:19:40 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:19:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] blogs: anny
In-Reply-To: <200701091700.l09H068X017287@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20070109181940.68115.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anny,
Well, I'd be doing the Leopardi thing (although that
seems to be assuming rather devious rhetorical
convolution, to call it that, perhaps...), if it were
just me: my blog hasn't been around for long, and
doesn't get many hits -- but it does seem to be a
widespread thing. Oddly, MySpace seems to be a much
more effective forum for discussion. But it's only
available as such to those who have myspace pages
(those who do not can't post comments). Weird, huh? I
wonder why.
In any event, yes, I think lists are a lot of fun
(especially this one, which since november has been
the best of all the lists I've been on). Not that I'd
give up my blog, though ;)
Congrats to David and James from me, too.
By the way, Eclipse, the Princeton archive of Language
etc, has those Joaquin Pasos poems I mentioned. I
recommend them to everyone here, they're *amazing*.
Oh, and Finnegan: if you can find them, I'd recommend
the Samuel Danon translations of Guillevic (Sam was
professor of mine at Reed), rather than Levertov. But
that's because of Danon, and not the respective
qualities of said translations (besides, the
Levertov's easy to find). Thanks, in any event, for
the link.
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From r_loden at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan  9 13:56:12 2007
From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:56:12 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] RMN
In-Reply-To: <A29302E8-F2AF-4E92-9B17-C9292C71A5D8@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00e801c7341f$d5e51860$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE>

David Graham wrote: 
 
<<It's the birthday of Richard Nixon. Everyone please go read Rachel
Loden.>>
 
Thanks, David! Why don't I make that easier? Here's a poem for the birthday,
from the birthplace:
 
 

A Quaker Meeting in Yorba Linda


 

          The Richard Nixon Library & Birthplace, Yorba Linda, California

 

 

The little flower of Yorba Linda told the gravestone: "Get thee behind me"

 

The gravestone told the grass: "I am coming out of you like a shiny tooth"

 

The grass asked Mrs. Nixon: "Are you dressed for Easter morning?"

 

Mrs. Nixon told Tricia and Julie: "Girls, your father is sprouting from the
grave"

 

Tricia and Julie told Checkers: "You must rise too, and come away"

 

Checkers told us: "Why would I rise? You promised to rebury me at the
Library and Birthplace. I am still here at the Bide-a-Wee Pet Cemetery in
Wantagh, New York, and not one of you has ever been to visit me."

 

Tricia and Julie told us: "When we were little girls, we spake as little
girls, we understood as little girls, we thought as little girls: but when
we became Mrs. Edward Cox and Mrs. David Eisenhower, we put away childish
things"

 

Mrs. Nixon told us: "I am Thelma Catherine Ryan, a miner's daughter and a
beauty"

 

The grass told us: "I feel so light without that shiny stone, so green and
airy"

 

The gravestone told us: "The little flower's death is written on my body"

 

The little flower of Yorba Linda told us: "I am rising even if Pat and
Checkers will not rise with me. How many did we kill in Laos? Think big, for
Chrissakes, Henry"

 

I said: "Dear Friends, will you sit and quake awhile with me? I invite the
gravestone, the grass, the beautiful Thelma Catherine Ryan, Mrs. Cox and
Mrs. Eisenhower, Checkers sick-at-heart in Wantagh, even Henry, if he
wishes, even the shy flower of Whittier, the angry flower of San Clemente,
the thwarted flower of Yorba Linda."

 

 

 

--from THE RICHARD NIXON SNOW GLOBE, Wild Honey Press

 

http://www.wildhoneypress.com/

 

 

 

 

 
 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan  9 17:17:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:17:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] RMN
References: <00e801c7341f$d5e51860$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE>
Message-ID: <005201c7343b$ff233240$6eae3452@ANNY>

Thank you Rachel.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rachel Loden 
  To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views' 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 7:56 PM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] RMN


  David Graham wrote: 

  <<It's the birthday of Richard Nixon. Everyone please go read Rachel Loden.>>

  Thanks, David! Why don't I make that easier? Here's a poem for the birthday, from the birthplace:


  A Quaker Meeting in Yorba Linda
   

            The Richard Nixon Library & Birthplace, Yorba Linda, California

   

   

  The little flower of Yorba Linda told the gravestone: "Get thee behind me"

   

  The gravestone told the grass: "I am coming out of you like a shiny tooth"

   

  The grass asked Mrs. Nixon: "Are you dressed for Easter morning?"

   

  Mrs. Nixon told Tricia and Julie: "Girls, your father is sprouting from the grave"

   

  Tricia and Julie told Checkers: "You must rise too, and come away"

   

  Checkers told us: "Why would I rise? You promised to rebury me at the Library and Birthplace. I am still here at the Bide-a-Wee Pet Cemetery in Wantagh, New York, and not one of you has ever been to visit me."

   

  Tricia and Julie told us: "When we were little girls, we spake as little girls, we understood as little girls, we thought as little girls: but when we became Mrs. Edward Cox and Mrs. David Eisenhower, we put away childish things"

   

  Mrs. Nixon told us: "I am Thelma Catherine Ryan, a miner's daughter and a beauty"

   

  The grass told us: "I feel so light without that shiny stone, so green and airy"

   

  The gravestone told us: "The little flower's death is written on my body"

   

  The little flower of Yorba Linda told us: "I am rising even if Pat and Checkers will not rise with me. How many did we kill in Laos? Think big, for Chrissakes, Henry"

   

  I said: "Dear Friends, will you sit and quake awhile with me? I invite the gravestone, the grass, the beautiful Thelma Catherine Ryan, Mrs. Cox and Mrs. Eisenhower, Checkers sick-at-heart in Wantagh, even Henry, if he wishes, even the shy flower of Whittier, the angry flower of San Clemente, the thwarted flower of Yorba Linda."







  --from THE RICHARD NIXON SNOW GLOBE, Wild Honey Press



  http://www.wildhoneypress.com/




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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Tue Jan  9 17:24:02 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:24:02 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
In-Reply-To: <c55.ba20c6d.32d52069@aol.com>
References: <c55.ba20c6d.32d52069@aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60701091424m19cfe96axdb027a738e74a2e8@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 1/9/2007 11:32:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>
>
> First issue was Winter, 1997-08, so it'll be 10 years next year at
> this time.  Our Winter, 2006-07 should be online within the next 24
> hours.
>
>
> That's a nice run, Jim. You must have been one the earlier entries
> in web litmag arena.
>
> Come to think about it, if you & Salt were on the web in 97-98, you
> probably had venture capitalists knocking on your door trying to
> take you public. Unless the 'irrational exuberance' of those heady
> days bypassed the poetry websites.
> Don't burst my bubble,
> Finnegan

We were invisible to venture capitalists, but there was a lot of
if-you-link-me-I'll-link-you.  I did try, for a very short spell, the
author/book/Amazon.com linkage but it was like having dust bunnies in
the house.  Somewhere in the archives one can find many strange and
inexplicable linkages, most of which no longer work.  I'm too lazy to
go in to straighten it up and, besides, glitches like that are
themselves little historical artifacts.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From chan_jt at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  9 18:24:30 2007
From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 23:24:30 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions
Message-ID: <BAY23-F7645E51BBDEE99505DB738AB30@phx.gbl>

Hi,

Poetry Sz:demystifying mental illness ( http://poetrysz.blogspot.com ) is 
calling for submissions.

Send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to 
poetrysz at yahoo.com .

Please read the submission guidelines first before submitting.

Thanks.

regards

J Chan
editor

_________________________________________________________________
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @ 
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html



From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan  9 18:32:16 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:32:16 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: 'French Poets' by Aram Saroyan
Message-ID: <535.c7eb509.32d58000@aol.com>

I was waiting for Hal to post this poem, since I think it was
one of his posts that I clipped it from...
 
French Poets
 
French poets are the greatest of all.
They arrive with different  smiles.
They are used to the sun and to coffee.
They  smoke
Incessantly.
 
If you tell them a joke they weep for joy.
If you tell them a
Sad  story they weep for joy.
And if they only knew joy.
 
We others seem
Pained by comparison. We all smile
Less than we might,  a lesson
In the great French movies:
 
Suddenly she is smiling. Suddenly she is
Smiling. Suddenly she is  smiling. Sudden
Ly she is smiling. Suddenly she is smili
 
--while so often we seem lost in thought.
Our skin is dry. 
We buy  the wrong shirts.
Or we buy the right ones but we look tired.
Our eyes are  often red
>From thinking.
 
French poets are always smiling and watching
The sun spots on the  coffee.
They are gay sons-of-bitches.
 
--Aram Saroyan
 
in *An Anthology of New York Poets*
eds. Ron Padgett and David  Shapiro
[New York: Vintage Books, 1970]

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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 21:51:57 2007
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog 
Message-ID: <344304.54254.qm@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Beat notes

Redefining the NY School
for the 21st century

New bookstores
and what they mean
for the preservation of an
independent book market

Poetry and depression
Poetry and community

69 job openings
60,000 recipients of the magazine
Poets and Writers
- what?s wrong with this picture?

Impressions of the MLA

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan  7 00:26:55 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:26:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream
	flavors
References: <970448.79065.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001501c7321c$71f08650$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Prevert?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alexander Dickow" <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream flavors


> "Alex, thanks for that background to the quote...
> Who are the French poets most important to you
> be they barbaric and wild or tame and bourgeois?"
>
> Finnegan,
> There are lots of good ones. Me personally? See
> Corbiere, Max Jacob, Damas and Guillevic, below.
> Caveat: I am entirely aware that this entire list is
> composed of white men with the exception of Damas, all
> from the late 19th- and 20th-c (gotta stop somewhere).
> Most of them are also dead (more recent poets tend to
> be tough to find in translation, to say the least).
> I'd be the first to deplore the backwardness of the
> French, and although I'm sure Cesaire and Senghor are
> amazing, they've never much appealed to me. I wish I
> knew Andree Chedid's work better, as what I've read of
> it is lovely (fabulous political poet, too, one of the
> best), but the fact is the women are simply few and
> far between, for various (all of them silly) reasons.
> Anyway, it's not my fault, I swear. I've tried to
> exclude most of the really obvious ones (Apollinaire,
> Rimbaud, Stephane Mallarme, Baudelaire, Lautreamont,
> Reverdy, Jules Supervielle...).
> Second note: if you dislike peremptory judgments, this
> might bother you. But _I_ had loads of fun playing
> judge/jury/executioner, at least.
>
> Max Jacob (of the underfamous Dice Cup, translated --
> now unfindable -- into English by Ashbery, admired by
> O'Hara and the NYClub among others, but he wrote all
> kinds of wonderful and vary diff. things)
>
> Tristan Corbiere -- incredibly, mind-bogglingly
> under-rated virtulently anti-romantic breton poet
> c1873 (same date of pub. as Rimbaud's Season -- but
> even *better* if you ask me!), recently re-translated
> into English under the title _Wry-Blue Loves_ in what
> looks like a very talented trans. (I only got a quick
> glimpse of it, unfortunately). Admired, back in the
> day, by Eliot, Corbiere's first translator...
>
> Leon Gontran Damas -- the most under-read, and in my
> opinion by far the most compelling, of the three
> Negritude poets (Cesaire, Senghor, and Damas). I've
> unfortunately not yet read all of Pigments, but the
> few pieces I'm acquainted with are among my favorite
> poems in the language.
>
> Eugene Guillevic -- my personal favorite minimalist
> poet: sort of the French Creeley, if you will. Try
> _Sphere_ or _Carnac_, they're my favorites.
>
> Contemporary poets, generally not translated (or very
> little): I'd recommend Philippe Beck, Jean-Claude
> Pinson, James Sacre, David Christoffel, Henri Droguet,
> Jacques Demarq, Jacques Roubaud and a few others. Some
> of these recent poets I've discussed on my blog once
> or twice. Try Duration Press or Double Change, they
> might have some.
>
> Poets I don't care for: Bonnefoy's over-rated, much
> too _solemn_. Rimbaud's been so terribly overdone, and
> over-mythified, argh! He was a punk, then he was a
> gun-runner. Verlaine's *okay*, I guess. Hugo: pompous,
> often in bad taste, but hard to avoid. Leconte de
> Lisle: overblown, never uses a noun w/o a qualifier.
>
> French-English bilingual poets: see Taking the Brim, a
> blog of mostly canadian writers, plus R. Federman and
> P. Joris, of course.
>
> Couple of other good names to remember: Rene Char,
> Edmond Jabes, Geo Norge, Henri Michaux, Jean Tardieu,
> Paul-Jean Toulet. Gee, there are so many
> others...can't stop, help!
>
> Happy reading! Questions welcome.
> Amicalement,
> Alex
>
>
>
>
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>
>  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan 10 01:21:49 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:21:49 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-creamflavors
References: <970448.79065.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<001501c7321c$71f08650$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <006601c7347f$9cdb57e0$d1ee3652@ANNY>

I know Alexander won't like it:
Baudelaire.

From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:26 AM


> Prevert?
>
> From: "Alexander Dickow" <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:52 PM
>
>
>> "Alex, thanks for that background to the quote...
>> Who are the French poets most important to you
>> be they barbaric and wild or tame and bourgeois?"
>>
>> Finnegan,
>> There are lots of good ones. Me personally? See
>> Corbiere, Max Jacob, Damas and Guillevic, below.
>> Caveat: I am entirely aware that this entire list is
>> composed of white men with the exception of Damas, all
>> from the late 19th- and 20th-c (gotta stop somewhere).
>> Most of them are also dead (more recent poets tend to
>> be tough to find in translation, to say the least).
>> I'd be the first to deplore the backwardness of the
>> French, and although I'm sure Cesaire and Senghor are
>> amazing, they've never much appealed to me. I wish I
>> knew Andree Chedid's work better, as what I've read of
>> it is lovely (fabulous political poet, too, one of the
>> best), but the fact is the women are simply few and
>> far between, for various (all of them silly) reasons.
>> Anyway, it's not my fault, I swear. I've tried to
>> exclude most of the really obvious ones (Apollinaire,
>> Rimbaud, Stephane Mallarme, Baudelaire, Lautreamont,
>> Reverdy, Jules Supervielle...).
>> Second note: if you dislike peremptory judgments, this
>> might bother you. But _I_ had loads of fun playing
>> judge/jury/executioner, at least.
>>
>> Max Jacob (of the underfamous Dice Cup, translated --
>> now unfindable -- into English by Ashbery, admired by
>> O'Hara and the NYClub among others, but he wrote all
>> kinds of wonderful and vary diff. things)
>>
>> Tristan Corbiere -- incredibly, mind-bogglingly
>> under-rated virtulently anti-romantic breton poet
>> c1873 (same date of pub. as Rimbaud's Season -- but
>> even *better* if you ask me!), recently re-translated
>> into English under the title _Wry-Blue Loves_ in what
>> looks like a very talented trans. (I only got a quick
>> glimpse of it, unfortunately). Admired, back in the
>> day, by Eliot, Corbiere's first translator...
>>
>> Leon Gontran Damas -- the most under-read, and in my
>> opinion by far the most compelling, of the three
>> Negritude poets (Cesaire, Senghor, and Damas). I've
>> unfortunately not yet read all of Pigments, but the
>> few pieces I'm acquainted with are among my favorite
>> poems in the language.
>>
>> Eugene Guillevic -- my personal favorite minimalist
>> poet: sort of the French Creeley, if you will. Try
>> _Sphere_ or _Carnac_, they're my favorites.
>>
>> Contemporary poets, generally not translated (or very
>> little): I'd recommend Philippe Beck, Jean-Claude
>> Pinson, James Sacre, David Christoffel, Henri Droguet,
>> Jacques Demarq, Jacques Roubaud and a few others. Some
>> of these recent poets I've discussed on my blog once
>> or twice. Try Duration Press or Double Change, they
>> might have some.
>>
>> Poets I don't care for: Bonnefoy's over-rated, much
>> too _solemn_. Rimbaud's been so terribly overdone, and
>> over-mythified, argh! He was a punk, then he was a
>> gun-runner. Verlaine's *okay*, I guess. Hugo: pompous,
>> often in bad taste, but hard to avoid. Leconte de
>> Lisle: overblown, never uses a noun w/o a qualifier.
>>
>> French-English bilingual poets: see Taking the Brim, a
>> blog of mostly canadian writers, plus R. Federman and
>> P. Joris, of course.
>>
>> Couple of other good names to remember: Rene Char,
>> Edmond Jabes, Geo Norge, Henri Michaux, Jean Tardieu,
>> Paul-Jean Toulet. Gee, there are so many
>> others...can't stop, help!
>>
>> Happy reading! Questions welcome.
>> Amicalement,
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>>
>>  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>>  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
>>




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan 10 06:46:29 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:46:29 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] David Howard
Message-ID: <002b01c734ac$f7d2b8f0$642ab750@ANNY>

The new Trout Press on-line edition of Shebang by David Howard:
http://www.trout.auckland.ac.nz/press/shebang/shebang.html

The original edition, which is out of print, elicited the following review from Kapka Kassabova in the New Zealand Listener (2-8 February 2002):

'David Howard is a mystery figure on our poetic landscape. Sparse in his output, virtually invisible to the media and involved for the last few years in staging entertainment shows around the world as a 
pyrotechnician, he belongs to an endangered species: the truly independent artist who remains quietly active throughout the years.

'His first publication in six years, /Shebang: Collected Poems/, is a beautifully produced and timely collection comprising work from his critically acclaimed previous volumes - /In the First Place /and /Holding Company/ - in addition to a body of new work that generously lives up to the contained intensity and piercing precision of his earlier poems. The shadowy illustrations by Jason Greig, black and white portraits of loneliness, haunt the text and are in turn haunted by it.

'Howard's world has the tension of multiplicity. There is a sense of engagement in a number of poems, especially those prompted by or written for other poets, a sense of artistic continuity through time and beyond the boundaries of English-language literature. There is however none of the pretentiousness and artificiality that sometimes goes with esoteric literary references. Each poem can be experienced in its own right, such as the wonderfully concise and loaded 'For Paul Celan' where the reader may or may not glimpse the tortured world of Paul Celan - and still find something of value.

'Howard's greatest lyrical power is in apprehending the elusive. His is a poetry of the vanshing, of the shifting elsewhere, of loss lurking within the moment. It is a poetry that, to rephrase the author, always lives in autumn.


'There is the exquisite 'The Reader' where, in a story within a story, the poet sits in an old villa and imagines a waitress wiping a table at a caf?; she smells the gladioli that will cover the ruins of the house once the wind has turned and it has burnt down. In poems like 'Care of the Commanding Officer', 'Cain', 'On the Eighth Day', 'Dove', 'To Cavafy', to name but a few, the cerebral blends with the visceral with a lightness of touch I can only describe as poetic brilliance.

'This is also poetry of the inexpressible, where the brutality of intense emotion is captured with rare precision. The love poems are therefore among the most striking in this already strong collection, not least because of their evocative directness and their unsparing final lines. 'The Perpetual Bird', a poem in seven parts, is among the most mesmerising examples of Howard's astonishing ability to distill worlds of complex emotion where nothing is simply erotic and nothing is simply melancholy.'



See David Howard on the Corner:

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=18




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 08:55:51 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 08:55:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream
	flavors
In-Reply-To: <001501c7321c$71f08650$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <970448.79065.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<001501c7321c$71f08650$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701100555q6130de5bif805b3009f403701@mail.gmail.com>

Who are you calling a "prevert," Mole? :-)

Jeff Newberry


On 1/7/07, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
> Prevert?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexander Dickow" <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:52 PM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets: self-indulgent list of ice-cream
> flavors
>
>
> > "Alex, thanks for that background to the quote...
> > Who are the French poets most important to you
> > be they barbaric and wild or tame and bourgeois?"
> >
> > Finnegan,
> > There are lots of good ones. Me personally? See
> > Corbiere, Max Jacob, Damas and Guillevic, below.
> > Caveat: I am entirely aware that this entire list is
> > composed of white men with the exception of Damas, all
> > from the late 19th- and 20th-c (gotta stop somewhere).
> > Most of them are also dead (more recent poets tend to
> > be tough to find in translation, to say the least).
> > I'd be the first to deplore the backwardness of the
> > French, and although I'm sure Cesaire and Senghor are
> > amazing, they've never much appealed to me. I wish I
> > knew Andree Chedid's work better, as what I've read of
> > it is lovely (fabulous political poet, too, one of the
> > best), but the fact is the women are simply few and
> > far between, for various (all of them silly) reasons.
> > Anyway, it's not my fault, I swear. I've tried to
> > exclude most of the really obvious ones (Apollinaire,
> > Rimbaud, Stephane Mallarme, Baudelaire, Lautreamont,
> > Reverdy, Jules Supervielle...).
> > Second note: if you dislike peremptory judgments, this
> > might bother you. But _I_ had loads of fun playing
> > judge/jury/executioner, at least.
> >
> > Max Jacob (of the underfamous Dice Cup, translated --
> > now unfindable -- into English by Ashbery, admired by
> > O'Hara and the NYClub among others, but he wrote all
> > kinds of wonderful and vary diff. things)
> >
> > Tristan Corbiere -- incredibly, mind-bogglingly
> > under-rated virtulently anti-romantic breton poet
> > c1873 (same date of pub. as Rimbaud's Season -- but
> > even *better* if you ask me!), recently re-translated
> > into English under the title _Wry-Blue Loves_ in what
> > looks like a very talented trans. (I only got a quick
> > glimpse of it, unfortunately). Admired, back in the
> > day, by Eliot, Corbiere's first translator...
> >
> > Leon Gontran Damas -- the most under-read, and in my
> > opinion by far the most compelling, of the three
> > Negritude poets (Cesaire, Senghor, and Damas). I've
> > unfortunately not yet read all of Pigments, but the
> > few pieces I'm acquainted with are among my favorite
> > poems in the language.
> >
> > Eugene Guillevic -- my personal favorite minimalist
> > poet: sort of the French Creeley, if you will. Try
> > _Sphere_ or _Carnac_, they're my favorites.
> >
> > Contemporary poets, generally not translated (or very
> > little): I'd recommend Philippe Beck, Jean-Claude
> > Pinson, James Sacre, David Christoffel, Henri Droguet,
> > Jacques Demarq, Jacques Roubaud and a few others. Some
> > of these recent poets I've discussed on my blog once
> > or twice. Try Duration Press or Double Change, they
> > might have some.
> >
> > Poets I don't care for: Bonnefoy's over-rated, much
> > too _solemn_. Rimbaud's been so terribly overdone, and
> > over-mythified, argh! He was a punk, then he was a
> > gun-runner. Verlaine's *okay*, I guess. Hugo: pompous,
> > often in bad taste, but hard to avoid. Leconte de
> > Lisle: overblown, never uses a noun w/o a qualifier.
> >
> > French-English bilingual poets: see Taking the Brim, a
> > blog of mostly canadian writers, plus R. Federman and
> > P. Joris, of course.
> >
> > Couple of other good names to remember: Rene Char,
> > Edmond Jabes, Geo Norge, Henri Michaux, Jean Tardieu,
> > Paul-Jean Toulet. Gee, there are so many
> > others...can't stop, help!
> >
> > Happy reading! Questions welcome.
> > Amicalement,
> > Alex
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.alexdickow.net/blog/
> >
> >  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
> >  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From oedipa at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 11:58:47 2007
From: oedipa at gmail.com (karen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:58:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot for SRR, David Graham, & Matt Sadler
In-Reply-To: <648208b60701091424m19cfe96axdb027a738e74a2e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c55.ba20c6d.32d52069@aol.com>
	<648208b60701091424m19cfe96axdb027a738e74a2e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d1c74efd0701100858m1e647f15l3e93e706adaf5a21@mail.gmail.com>

Nice going....

On 1/9/07, James Cervantes <cervantes.james at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/9/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/9/2007 11:32:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > JforJames at aol.com writes:
> >
> >
> > First issue was Winter, 1997-08, so it'll be 10 years next year at
> > this time.  Our Winter, 2006-07 should be online within the next 24
> > hours.
> >
> >
> > That's a nice run, Jim. You must have been one the earlier entries
> > in web litmag arena.
> >
> > Come to think about it, if you & Salt were on the web in 97-98, you
> > probably had venture capitalists knocking on your door trying to
> > take you public. Unless the 'irrational exuberance' of those heady
> > days bypassed the poetry websites.
> > Don't burst my bubble,
> > Finnegan
>
> We were invisible to venture capitalists, but there was a lot of
> if-you-link-me-I'll-link-you.  I did try, for a very short spell, the
> author/book/Amazon.com linkage but it was like having dust bunnies in
> the house.  Somewhere in the archives one can find many strange and
> inexplicable linkages, most of which no longer work.  I'm too lazy to
> go in to straighten it up and, besides, glitches like that are
> themselves little historical artifacts.
>
> -- Jim
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan 10 13:08:41 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:08:41 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 41 (2007) 
Message-ID: <535.c8532c8.32d685a9@aol.com>

Date:    Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:12:44 -0500
From:     "Slaughter, William" <wrs at UNF.EDU>
Subject: Notice: Mudlark

New  and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 41 (2007)

Recap and Other Poems by Mark  Dow

Mark Dow has been a finalist in the Yale Younger Poets and Colorado  Prize 
competitions. His work has appeared in Threepenny Review, Chicago  Review, 
Boston Review, Pequod, Salmagundi, Southern Review, Big City Lit,  and 
poesia.com.  His translations of Manno Charlemagne's songs from  Haitian 
Creole are in Conjunctions, and an introduction to translations of  Laura 
Wittner's poems from Spanish is in Green Integer. He is the author of  
American Gulag: Inside Us Immigration Prisons (California 2004) and  
co-editor of Machinery Of Death: The Reality Of America's Death Penalty  
Regime (Routledge 2002).

Spread the word. Far and  wide,

William Slaughter

MUDLARK
An Electronic Journal of Poetry  & Poetics
Never in and never out of print...
E-mail:  mudlark at unf.edu
URL:  http://www.unf.edu/mudlark

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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 14:10:57 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:10:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] French poets
In-Reply-To: <200701101700.l0AH058X009522@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <811961.50084.qm@web35501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Great NY poem. There are lots dedicated to the French,
...for some reason.

Yeah, Prevert's *okay*: I respect him for reaching a
wide audience, but I find him sometimes facile --
because of his overuse of the _list_ as a formal
device. I prefer the *other* "popular" poet, Robert
Desnos.

Anny: Why wouldn't I like Baudelaire?? I love B.,
especially the Spleen of Paris. Because I don't like
Rimbaud? My issue with Rimbaud is...very complicated,
and kind of a perverted love-hate thing. Baudelaire
has his flaws, sure, but he's a fabulous poet, all in
all. If I didn't mention or discuss him, it was
because I figure everyone here at least knows who he
is, whereas they might not be acquainted with Damas or
Jacob....

Actually, I should have added Francis Ponge.

Skip: Actually, -- I hate to disagree here -- Voltaire
was a horrible man: one of the first unscrupulous
capitalists, he was a vindictive egomaniac who
bootstrapped his way to riches and nobility through
exploitation of the workers on his estate and years of
political/worldly manoeuvering. His tolerance
was...complicated, too. That said, -- and it's an
unfortunate truth -- I certainly like the ideal of
tolerance, and I must say I feel very much the same
way as you, Skip, about this list: by far the most
accepting of different points of view of the four
lists I've been connected to. 

Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan 10 16:32:14 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:32:14 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Backstage at the Bowery Poetry Club 
Message-ID: <c26.e167259.32d6b55e@aol.com>

_http://avenuea.org/ev/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=39_
 
(http://avenuea.org/ev/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=39) 
 

Nothing to Lose but the  Chains        
Written by Bill  Millard     
Sunday, 07 January 2007  
If  there?s anyplace where artists ? not mass-market retailers ? can drive 
the  economy and define the space, it?s here. East-Village.com's Bill Millard  
interviews Bob Holman, who energetically defends the EV way of life. 
 
Backstage at the Bowery Poetry Club there?s a kora hanging on a wall. Only  a 
few of the poets, singers, comics, and performance artists who work the BPC?s 
 busy stage have ever played one, but anyone who?s heard poet/proprietor Bob  
Holman on the subject will understand why it?s there.
 
This harplike instrument is the favorite of the griots of West Africa, the  
traveling poets/storytellers/historians who carry in their heads (and hand down 
 through their families) the musical and social traditions of the Mandinka or 
 Mande peoples. Poetry is at the center of everything that happens in the  
villages of Gambia, Senegal, Guinea, and Mali. It?s performed for the whole  
populace, not embalmed in classrooms and anthologies. This oral tradition  
predates the West?s conception of poetry by thousands of years, and if you?ve  ever 
experienced it directly ? perhaps by hearing Gambian griot Papa Susso, whom  
Holman brought to the BPC for a series of lectures and performances, full of  
jazzlike solos and spontaneous outbursts of dance ? you might just conclude 
that  a society organized around poetry and music is a lot saner than ours.
 


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From elemenope at icubed.com  Wed Jan 10 23:14:04 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:14:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip Fox)
In-Reply-To: <200701101700.l0AH058X009522@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701101700.l0AH058X009522@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <49293.141.151.138.123.1168488844.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Skip - -

No ad hominem argumentation at you, sir, from this station, just ad rem. 
Now, I am going to quote an anti-Liberal commentator without naming him
immediatly:

If the citizen does not WORK at the practice of Conservatism, he will
revert to Radical Liberalism.
Conservatism, i.e., successful affirmation of the Representative Republic
called, "The United States of America,"  is the flinty filament of heart
and intelligence that connects the poets and thinkers I've named to those
political leaders who embody and advance this ideology.  Therefore, I see
direct connection between, say, Robert Frost and Ronald Reagan and Ayn
Rand and Emily Dickinson.

As to Ezra Pound: He went off the track when he stood with Totalitarian
Left Fascism.  Many people confuse what Pound and Mussolini advocated with
the "Right Wing."  No.  This is a canard Leftwing Hollywood intellectuals
use to turn the student population's attention away from the Gulags of
Stalin.  It's as if the Gulags never happened and no heroic poet
(Mandelstam) ever stood up to them from the true Conservatives of old
Russia.   The greatest intellectuals are those who advance the cause of
Liberty a la Patrick Henry.  When I look at that time in Russia, two great
thinkers and leaders emerge: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.  Ouspensky, in
particular, knew what sort of odious. criminal people had subverted the
deep desire of people there for Liberty.

The same struggle against tyranny occurs before our eyes now in Iraq, as
Donald Rumsfeld and W saw clearly, and which the RadLib press subverts and
distorts.  Either we back the Purple Fingered Voters who came forth when
they had a ray of light to follow, or we consign them to bloody oblivion. 
Watch Somalia.  The failure of the Clintonistas is now being reversed with
the help of the Ethiopians and Warthog Gunships against the IslamoFascists
who seek the demise of all outside their forcefield, Animists or
Christians or Buddhists, all must go.  When the ACLU waves the white flag
to the IslamoFascists they will be surprised on their ways to beheadment
just as the RadLib English judge in "The Lady Vanishes" was shocked when
the Fascists in the woods shot him cold.

Hitchcock was a Conservative in the same school as Margaret Thatcher. 
Both, anti-Liberals.  And for good, solid, plain as day, country simple
reasons.

It is at this juncture in history that 43, the son, comes forward to
redeem 41, the father, who let down those who sought Liberty in a failure
of nerve similar to how JFK failed Cuban patriots at the Bay of Pigs or,
later, when the RadLibs swung their media against the efforts of American
patriots in their defeat of Giap in Vietnam.  Millions perished fleeing
the Marxian Totalitarians once Cronkite failed our Republic and the lovers
of Liberty of now vanished South Vietnam.  May their deaths be on the
shade of Allen Ginsberg and his shadow,  Anne Waldman!

You can tell those poets who stand in the anti-Conservative camp: They
laud people like Cindy Sheehan, Jimmy Carter, Daniel Ortega and Hugo
Chavez.  Such poets are sought out and given support to advance Blame
America First ideology inside American institutions.  They obtain jobs and
grants from dubious sources.  And they are rich, but you'd never know it. 
They pride themselves on their intellectual terrorism.

As such,  Ginsberg and Pound are equally anti-Conservative, anti-Reagan,
anti-American poets.  Pound is particularly noxious.  Jefferson and Lee
were gentlemen; Mussolini and Hitler were thugs and maniacs. That Pound
believed in some sort of equivalence was utter folly.  Now watch:

This schism has been decided on the Buffalo line.  You will never read
anything like what I have written here on that line just as Hillary
Clinton could not abide Rush Limbaugh and attempted to implement laws that
would have silenced him.  When that attempt through the manipulation of
courts failed, then a show trial like what Pravda and NKVD used to do in
Moscow using trumped up drug charges was launched.  This attempt failed,
as well, due, in part, to a clever, knowledgeable, expensive LIBERAL
attorney!  When that lawyer had to do some ethical work he  returned to
his Conservative training in Constitutional theory,  guided by Rush
Limbaugh's deep familial learning in the Law.

What about Whitman, the poet Ginsberg claimed is his predecessor?  No
greater advocate of American Liberty and Invention has ever stood up and
affirmed this country than Whitman.
Whitman would have seen Al Gore as an idiot and demagogue and known that
it is the Solar System that is going through a periodic oscillation in its
meteorological dynamic.  Ginsberg would have ridden the Gore wave for all
it is worth in order to keep his face in the RadLib media dynamic. Whitman
would have stood with Reagan, G. Gordon Liddy and Ann Coulter in affirming
America in the Kosmos.

The Sophoclean pessimism of Jeffers is rooted in a profound disenchanment
with humanitas.  He would have been revolted by what the RadLibs used to
mindwarp American students in San Francisco's Pacific Heights in their
recent break-a singer's-jaw-attack-to-thrillkill  the Yale Glee Club that
had just sung The Star Spangled Banner at a private party.  No report, of
course, on ABC/NBC/CBS/NPR acknowledging this criminal, odious,
ideologically poisoned outrage.  Rush commented that these patriotic
Yalies had better watch their backs when they return to New Haven, as
well.

R.D.

As to Voltaire, I'll take him over Rousseau.  But, they are French.  I
like the French, by the way.
As long as they don't instruct me in politics.  Michaux was a great lover
of Liberty who deeply impressed Gregory in his independence from the
crowd.





> Hmmm.
>
> I'm probably what you might call RadLib, but I like Jeffers. As well as
> Frost and Faulkner. Pound and Eliot. (I named my son after Pound.) Love
> Marianne Moore and Hemingway. Not Ryan. Just what DOES that make me?
> (Well,
> . . . a lover of good writing for one thing.)
>
> And one reason I've enjoyed this list is its openness to a variety of
> writers, even those rather quickly dismissed by the Buffalo list. Those
> who
> I might be dismissive of had I not read "Poems by Others," for instance,
> and
> what everyone else has posted. I can try, in most cases successfully, to
> find the value in these.
>
> It was Voltaire more than any other who changed tolerance from a vice into
> a
> virtue. Lovely man.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> elemenope at icubed.com
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:07 PM
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
>
> Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
> the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
> the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
> "The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
> entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
> Roger Baldwin.
>
> Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
> congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
> anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
> who stand in the RadLib camp.
>
> Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.
>
> It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
> politics of American art, IMHO.
>
> RD
>
>
>>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)
>
>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
>> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
>> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
>>
>> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>>> exists,
>>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>>> got
>>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>>> by
>>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another
>>> one
>>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>>
>>> R.D.
>>>
>
>> --
>> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
>> recollects,
>> longer than knowing even wonders."
>> -William Faulkner, Light in August




From vladimir.garcia at uv.es  Thu Jan 11 09:19:47 2007
From: vladimir.garcia at uv.es (Vladimir Garcia Morales)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:19:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip Fox)
In-Reply-To: <49293.141.151.138.123.1168488844.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701101700.l0AH058X009522@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<49293.141.151.138.123.1168488844.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <45A64783.6080301@uv.es>

Hello

I have just subscribed to this mailing list and already followed this 
heated exchange with interest.

I think that every poet, by the fact of being a poet, talks to humanity, 
to all humanity. If ideological concepts like 'state' and identification 
with certain 'politicians' appear in a work of art this is very 
secondary. The value of a work of art rests on how life enters in it, 
other  details, no matter how horrible can be, are secondary. Even when 
there are artists that are reactionary or conservatists, if they write 
poetry, their poetry can be read in a way which is useful to life (i.e. 
in a progressive way), in a way that contradicts the intentions (often 
manic) of the writer. This is the miracle of the work of art: it always 
goes beyond what is intended.

Most of the writers you have mentioned are great masters. Already the 
left-wing thinker Adorno showed the fallacy of disregarding poets as 
Pound because of being reactionary (this is the fallacy of the late 
Lukacs and it is contained in his book "The destruction of reason"). If 
they are poets, they are because, despite them, they say something 
progressive. Exploring the possibilities of language is already 
progressive: language is both social and historical and in exploring its 
possibilities a tribute is paid to language and, therefore, to society.

Cheers
Vladimir Garc?a Morales



elemenope at icubed.com escribi?:
> Skip - -
> 
> No ad hominem argumentation at you, sir, from this station, just ad rem. 
> Now, I am going to quote an anti-Liberal commentator without naming him
> immediatly:
> 
> If the citizen does not WORK at the practice of Conservatism, he will
> revert to Radical Liberalism.
> Conservatism, i.e., successful affirmation of the Representative Republic
> called, "The United States of America,"  is the flinty filament of heart
> and intelligence that connects the poets and thinkers I've named to those
> political leaders who embody and advance this ideology.  Therefore, I see
> direct connection between, say, Robert Frost and Ronald Reagan and Ayn
> Rand and Emily Dickinson.
> 
> As to Ezra Pound: He went off the track when he stood with Totalitarian
> Left Fascism.  Many people confuse what Pound and Mussolini advocated with
> the "Right Wing."  No.  This is a canard Leftwing Hollywood intellectuals
> use to turn the student population's attention away from the Gulags of
> Stalin.  It's as if the Gulags never happened and no heroic poet
> (Mandelstam) ever stood up to them from the true Conservatives of old
> Russia.   The greatest intellectuals are those who advance the cause of
> Liberty a la Patrick Henry.  When I look at that time in Russia, two great
> thinkers and leaders emerge: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.  Ouspensky, in
> particular, knew what sort of odious. criminal people had subverted the
> deep desire of people there for Liberty.
> 
> The same struggle against tyranny occurs before our eyes now in Iraq, as
> Donald Rumsfeld and W saw clearly, and which the RadLib press subverts and
> distorts.  Either we back the Purple Fingered Voters who came forth when
> they had a ray of light to follow, or we consign them to bloody oblivion. 
> Watch Somalia.  The failure of the Clintonistas is now being reversed with
> the help of the Ethiopians and Warthog Gunships against the IslamoFascists
> who seek the demise of all outside their forcefield, Animists or
> Christians or Buddhists, all must go.  When the ACLU waves the white flag
> to the IslamoFascists they will be surprised on their ways to beheadment
> just as the RadLib English judge in "The Lady Vanishes" was shocked when
> the Fascists in the woods shot him cold.
> 
> Hitchcock was a Conservative in the same school as Margaret Thatcher. 
> Both, anti-Liberals.  And for good, solid, plain as day, country simple
> reasons.
> 
> It is at this juncture in history that 43, the son, comes forward to
> redeem 41, the father, who let down those who sought Liberty in a failure
> of nerve similar to how JFK failed Cuban patriots at the Bay of Pigs or,
> later, when the RadLibs swung their media against the efforts of American
> patriots in their defeat of Giap in Vietnam.  Millions perished fleeing
> the Marxian Totalitarians once Cronkite failed our Republic and the lovers
> of Liberty of now vanished South Vietnam.  May their deaths be on the
> shade of Allen Ginsberg and his shadow,  Anne Waldman!
> 
> You can tell those poets who stand in the anti-Conservative camp: They
> laud people like Cindy Sheehan, Jimmy Carter, Daniel Ortega and Hugo
> Chavez.  Such poets are sought out and given support to advance Blame
> America First ideology inside American institutions.  They obtain jobs and
> grants from dubious sources.  And they are rich, but you'd never know it. 
> They pride themselves on their intellectual terrorism.
> 
> As such,  Ginsberg and Pound are equally anti-Conservative, anti-Reagan,
> anti-American poets.  Pound is particularly noxious.  Jefferson and Lee
> were gentlemen; Mussolini and Hitler were thugs and maniacs. That Pound
> believed in some sort of equivalence was utter folly.  Now watch:
> 
> This schism has been decided on the Buffalo line.  You will never read
> anything like what I have written here on that line just as Hillary
> Clinton could not abide Rush Limbaugh and attempted to implement laws that
> would have silenced him.  When that attempt through the manipulation of
> courts failed, then a show trial like what Pravda and NKVD used to do in
> Moscow using trumped up drug charges was launched.  This attempt failed,
> as well, due, in part, to a clever, knowledgeable, expensive LIBERAL
> attorney!  When that lawyer had to do some ethical work he  returned to
> his Conservative training in Constitutional theory,  guided by Rush
> Limbaugh's deep familial learning in the Law.
> 
> What about Whitman, the poet Ginsberg claimed is his predecessor?  No
> greater advocate of American Liberty and Invention has ever stood up and
> affirmed this country than Whitman.
> Whitman would have seen Al Gore as an idiot and demagogue and known that
> it is the Solar System that is going through a periodic oscillation in its
> meteorological dynamic.  Ginsberg would have ridden the Gore wave for all
> it is worth in order to keep his face in the RadLib media dynamic. Whitman
> would have stood with Reagan, G. Gordon Liddy and Ann Coulter in affirming
> America in the Kosmos.
> 
> The Sophoclean pessimism of Jeffers is rooted in a profound disenchanment
> with humanitas.  He would have been revolted by what the RadLibs used to
> mindwarp American students in San Francisco's Pacific Heights in their
> recent break-a singer's-jaw-attack-to-thrillkill  the Yale Glee Club that
> had just sung The Star Spangled Banner at a private party.  No report, of
> course, on ABC/NBC/CBS/NPR acknowledging this criminal, odious,
> ideologically poisoned outrage.  Rush commented that these patriotic
> Yalies had better watch their backs when they return to New Haven, as
> well.
> 
> R.D.
> 
> As to Voltaire, I'll take him over Rousseau.  But, they are French.  I
> like the French, by the way.
> As long as they don't instruct me in politics.  Michaux was a great lover
> of Liberty who deeply impressed Gregory in his independence from the
> crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> I'm probably what you might call RadLib, but I like Jeffers. As well as
>> Frost and Faulkner. Pound and Eliot. (I named my son after Pound.) Love
>> Marianne Moore and Hemingway. Not Ryan. Just what DOES that make me?
>> (Well,
>> . . . a lover of good writing for one thing.)
>>
>> And one reason I've enjoyed this list is its openness to a variety of
>> writers, even those rather quickly dismissed by the Buffalo list. Those
>> who
>> I might be dismissive of had I not read "Poems by Others," for instance,
>> and
>> what everyone else has posted. I can try, in most cases successfully, to
>> find the value in these.
>>
>> It was Voltaire more than any other who changed tolerance from a vice into
>> a
>> virtue. Lovely man.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
>> elemenope at icubed.com
>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:07 PM
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
>>
>> Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
>> the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
>> the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
>> "The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
>> entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
>> Roger Baldwin.
>>
>> Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
>> congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
>> anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
>> who stand in the RadLib camp.
>>
>> Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.
>>
>> It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
>> politics of American art, IMHO.
>>
>> RD
>>
>>
>>>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)
>>
>>> Message: 14
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
>>> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
>>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
>>> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>
>>> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>>>
>>> Jeff Newberry
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>>>> exists,
>>>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>>>> got
>>>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>>>> by
>>>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>>>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another
>>>> one
>>>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>>>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>>>
>>>> R.D.
>>>>
>>> --
>>> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
>>> recollects,
>>> longer than knowing even wonders."
>>> -William Faulkner, Light in August
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 



From skip at louisiana.edu  Thu Jan 11 11:05:34 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:05:34 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip Fox)
In-Reply-To: <49293.141.151.138.123.1168488844.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <000501c7359a$594c0b20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

No time to plow thru this, nor desire to respond, sorry, except to say I
find such argumentation boring. I'm not speaking of you, necessarily, but of
many, maybe most, people. My best thinking is in my work. (As Williams said,
"A poet thinks with his work.") You can google it or, better, send me your
snail mail address to and I'll send you a book. Then you can argue with
that.

I'm at: skip at louisiana.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
elemenope at icubed.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:14 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip Fox)

Skip - -

No ad hominem argumentation at you, sir, from this station, just ad rem. 
Now, I am going to quote an anti-Liberal commentator without naming him
immediatly:

If the citizen does not WORK at the practice of Conservatism, he will
revert to Radical Liberalism.
Conservatism, i.e., successful affirmation of the Representative Republic
called, "The United States of America,"  is the flinty filament of heart
and intelligence that connects the poets and thinkers I've named to those
political leaders who embody and advance this ideology.  Therefore, I see
direct connection between, say, Robert Frost and Ronald Reagan and Ayn
Rand and Emily Dickinson.

As to Ezra Pound: He went off the track when he stood with Totalitarian
Left Fascism.  Many people confuse what Pound and Mussolini advocated with
the "Right Wing."  No.  This is a canard Leftwing Hollywood intellectuals
use to turn the student population's attention away from the Gulags of
Stalin.  It's as if the Gulags never happened and no heroic poet
(Mandelstam) ever stood up to them from the true Conservatives of old
Russia.   The greatest intellectuals are those who advance the cause of
Liberty a la Patrick Henry.  When I look at that time in Russia, two great
thinkers and leaders emerge: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.  Ouspensky, in
particular, knew what sort of odious. criminal people had subverted the
deep desire of people there for Liberty.

The same struggle against tyranny occurs before our eyes now in Iraq, as
Donald Rumsfeld and W saw clearly, and which the RadLib press subverts and
distorts.  Either we back the Purple Fingered Voters who came forth when
they had a ray of light to follow, or we consign them to bloody oblivion. 
Watch Somalia.  The failure of the Clintonistas is now being reversed with
the help of the Ethiopians and Warthog Gunships against the IslamoFascists
who seek the demise of all outside their forcefield, Animists or
Christians or Buddhists, all must go.  When the ACLU waves the white flag
to the IslamoFascists they will be surprised on their ways to beheadment
just as the RadLib English judge in "The Lady Vanishes" was shocked when
the Fascists in the woods shot him cold.

Hitchcock was a Conservative in the same school as Margaret Thatcher. 
Both, anti-Liberals.  And for good, solid, plain as day, country simple
reasons.

It is at this juncture in history that 43, the son, comes forward to
redeem 41, the father, who let down those who sought Liberty in a failure
of nerve similar to how JFK failed Cuban patriots at the Bay of Pigs or,
later, when the RadLibs swung their media against the efforts of American
patriots in their defeat of Giap in Vietnam.  Millions perished fleeing
the Marxian Totalitarians once Cronkite failed our Republic and the lovers
of Liberty of now vanished South Vietnam.  May their deaths be on the
shade of Allen Ginsberg and his shadow,  Anne Waldman!

You can tell those poets who stand in the anti-Conservative camp: They
laud people like Cindy Sheehan, Jimmy Carter, Daniel Ortega and Hugo
Chavez.  Such poets are sought out and given support to advance Blame
America First ideology inside American institutions.  They obtain jobs and
grants from dubious sources.  And they are rich, but you'd never know it. 
They pride themselves on their intellectual terrorism.

As such,  Ginsberg and Pound are equally anti-Conservative, anti-Reagan,
anti-American poets.  Pound is particularly noxious.  Jefferson and Lee
were gentlemen; Mussolini and Hitler were thugs and maniacs. That Pound
believed in some sort of equivalence was utter folly.  Now watch:

This schism has been decided on the Buffalo line.  You will never read
anything like what I have written here on that line just as Hillary
Clinton could not abide Rush Limbaugh and attempted to implement laws that
would have silenced him.  When that attempt through the manipulation of
courts failed, then a show trial like what Pravda and NKVD used to do in
Moscow using trumped up drug charges was launched.  This attempt failed,
as well, due, in part, to a clever, knowledgeable, expensive LIBERAL
attorney!  When that lawyer had to do some ethical work he  returned to
his Conservative training in Constitutional theory,  guided by Rush
Limbaugh's deep familial learning in the Law.

What about Whitman, the poet Ginsberg claimed is his predecessor?  No
greater advocate of American Liberty and Invention has ever stood up and
affirmed this country than Whitman.
Whitman would have seen Al Gore as an idiot and demagogue and known that
it is the Solar System that is going through a periodic oscillation in its
meteorological dynamic.  Ginsberg would have ridden the Gore wave for all
it is worth in order to keep his face in the RadLib media dynamic. Whitman
would have stood with Reagan, G. Gordon Liddy and Ann Coulter in affirming
America in the Kosmos.

The Sophoclean pessimism of Jeffers is rooted in a profound disenchanment
with humanitas.  He would have been revolted by what the RadLibs used to
mindwarp American students in San Francisco's Pacific Heights in their
recent break-a singer's-jaw-attack-to-thrillkill  the Yale Glee Club that
had just sung The Star Spangled Banner at a private party.  No report, of
course, on ABC/NBC/CBS/NPR acknowledging this criminal, odious,
ideologically poisoned outrage.  Rush commented that these patriotic
Yalies had better watch their backs when they return to New Haven, as
well.

R.D.

As to Voltaire, I'll take him over Rousseau.  But, they are French.  I
like the French, by the way.
As long as they don't instruct me in politics.  Michaux was a great lover
of Liberty who deeply impressed Gregory in his independence from the
crowd.





> Hmmm.
>
> I'm probably what you might call RadLib, but I like Jeffers. As well as
> Frost and Faulkner. Pound and Eliot. (I named my son after Pound.) Love
> Marianne Moore and Hemingway. Not Ryan. Just what DOES that make me?
> (Well,
> . . . a lover of good writing for one thing.)
>
> And one reason I've enjoyed this list is its openness to a variety of
> writers, even those rather quickly dismissed by the Buffalo list. Those
> who
> I might be dismissive of had I not read "Poems by Others," for instance,
> and
> what everyone else has posted. I can try, in most cases successfully, to
> find the value in these.
>
> It was Voltaire more than any other who changed tolerance from a vice into
> a
> virtue. Lovely man.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> elemenope at icubed.com
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:07 PM
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
>
> Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
> the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
> the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
> "The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
> entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
> Roger Baldwin.
>
> Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
> congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
> anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
> who stand in the RadLib camp.
>
> Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.
>
> It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
> politics of American art, IMHO.
>
> RD
>
>
>>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)
>
>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
>> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
>> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
>>
>> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>>> exists,
>>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>>> got
>>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>>> by
>>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another
>>> one
>>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>>
>>> R.D.
>>>
>
>> --
>> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
>> recollects,
>> longer than knowing even wonders."
>> -William Faulkner, Light in August


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From skip at louisiana.edu  Thu Jan 11 11:06:18 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:06:18 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip Fox)
In-Reply-To: <45A64783.6080301@uv.es>
Message-ID: <000601c7359a$739ea140$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Geez.

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Vladimir Garcia
Morales
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:20 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip Fox)

Hello

I have just subscribed to this mailing list and already followed this 
heated exchange with interest.

I think that every poet, by the fact of being a poet, talks to humanity, 
to all humanity. If ideological concepts like 'state' and identification 
with certain 'politicians' appear in a work of art this is very 
secondary. The value of a work of art rests on how life enters in it, 
other  details, no matter how horrible can be, are secondary. Even when 
there are artists that are reactionary or conservatists, if they write 
poetry, their poetry can be read in a way which is useful to life (i.e. 
in a progressive way), in a way that contradicts the intentions (often 
manic) of the writer. This is the miracle of the work of art: it always 
goes beyond what is intended.

Most of the writers you have mentioned are great masters. Already the 
left-wing thinker Adorno showed the fallacy of disregarding poets as 
Pound because of being reactionary (this is the fallacy of the late 
Lukacs and it is contained in his book "The destruction of reason"). If 
they are poets, they are because, despite them, they say something 
progressive. Exploring the possibilities of language is already 
progressive: language is both social and historical and in exploring its 
possibilities a tribute is paid to language and, therefore, to society.

Cheers
Vladimir Garc?a Morales



elemenope at icubed.com escribi?:
> Skip - -
> 
> No ad hominem argumentation at you, sir, from this station, just ad rem. 
> Now, I am going to quote an anti-Liberal commentator without naming him
> immediatly:
> 
> If the citizen does not WORK at the practice of Conservatism, he will
> revert to Radical Liberalism.
> Conservatism, i.e., successful affirmation of the Representative Republic
> called, "The United States of America,"  is the flinty filament of heart
> and intelligence that connects the poets and thinkers I've named to those
> political leaders who embody and advance this ideology.  Therefore, I see
> direct connection between, say, Robert Frost and Ronald Reagan and Ayn
> Rand and Emily Dickinson.
> 
> As to Ezra Pound: He went off the track when he stood with Totalitarian
> Left Fascism.  Many people confuse what Pound and Mussolini advocated with
> the "Right Wing."  No.  This is a canard Leftwing Hollywood intellectuals
> use to turn the student population's attention away from the Gulags of
> Stalin.  It's as if the Gulags never happened and no heroic poet
> (Mandelstam) ever stood up to them from the true Conservatives of old
> Russia.   The greatest intellectuals are those who advance the cause of
> Liberty a la Patrick Henry.  When I look at that time in Russia, two great
> thinkers and leaders emerge: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.  Ouspensky, in
> particular, knew what sort of odious. criminal people had subverted the
> deep desire of people there for Liberty.
> 
> The same struggle against tyranny occurs before our eyes now in Iraq, as
> Donald Rumsfeld and W saw clearly, and which the RadLib press subverts and
> distorts.  Either we back the Purple Fingered Voters who came forth when
> they had a ray of light to follow, or we consign them to bloody oblivion. 
> Watch Somalia.  The failure of the Clintonistas is now being reversed with
> the help of the Ethiopians and Warthog Gunships against the IslamoFascists
> who seek the demise of all outside their forcefield, Animists or
> Christians or Buddhists, all must go.  When the ACLU waves the white flag
> to the IslamoFascists they will be surprised on their ways to beheadment
> just as the RadLib English judge in "The Lady Vanishes" was shocked when
> the Fascists in the woods shot him cold.
> 
> Hitchcock was a Conservative in the same school as Margaret Thatcher. 
> Both, anti-Liberals.  And for good, solid, plain as day, country simple
> reasons.
> 
> It is at this juncture in history that 43, the son, comes forward to
> redeem 41, the father, who let down those who sought Liberty in a failure
> of nerve similar to how JFK failed Cuban patriots at the Bay of Pigs or,
> later, when the RadLibs swung their media against the efforts of American
> patriots in their defeat of Giap in Vietnam.  Millions perished fleeing
> the Marxian Totalitarians once Cronkite failed our Republic and the lovers
> of Liberty of now vanished South Vietnam.  May their deaths be on the
> shade of Allen Ginsberg and his shadow,  Anne Waldman!
> 
> You can tell those poets who stand in the anti-Conservative camp: They
> laud people like Cindy Sheehan, Jimmy Carter, Daniel Ortega and Hugo
> Chavez.  Such poets are sought out and given support to advance Blame
> America First ideology inside American institutions.  They obtain jobs and
> grants from dubious sources.  And they are rich, but you'd never know it. 
> They pride themselves on their intellectual terrorism.
> 
> As such,  Ginsberg and Pound are equally anti-Conservative, anti-Reagan,
> anti-American poets.  Pound is particularly noxious.  Jefferson and Lee
> were gentlemen; Mussolini and Hitler were thugs and maniacs. That Pound
> believed in some sort of equivalence was utter folly.  Now watch:
> 
> This schism has been decided on the Buffalo line.  You will never read
> anything like what I have written here on that line just as Hillary
> Clinton could not abide Rush Limbaugh and attempted to implement laws that
> would have silenced him.  When that attempt through the manipulation of
> courts failed, then a show trial like what Pravda and NKVD used to do in
> Moscow using trumped up drug charges was launched.  This attempt failed,
> as well, due, in part, to a clever, knowledgeable, expensive LIBERAL
> attorney!  When that lawyer had to do some ethical work he  returned to
> his Conservative training in Constitutional theory,  guided by Rush
> Limbaugh's deep familial learning in the Law.
> 
> What about Whitman, the poet Ginsberg claimed is his predecessor?  No
> greater advocate of American Liberty and Invention has ever stood up and
> affirmed this country than Whitman.
> Whitman would have seen Al Gore as an idiot and demagogue and known that
> it is the Solar System that is going through a periodic oscillation in its
> meteorological dynamic.  Ginsberg would have ridden the Gore wave for all
> it is worth in order to keep his face in the RadLib media dynamic. Whitman
> would have stood with Reagan, G. Gordon Liddy and Ann Coulter in affirming
> America in the Kosmos.
> 
> The Sophoclean pessimism of Jeffers is rooted in a profound disenchanment
> with humanitas.  He would have been revolted by what the RadLibs used to
> mindwarp American students in San Francisco's Pacific Heights in their
> recent break-a singer's-jaw-attack-to-thrillkill  the Yale Glee Club that
> had just sung The Star Spangled Banner at a private party.  No report, of
> course, on ABC/NBC/CBS/NPR acknowledging this criminal, odious,
> ideologically poisoned outrage.  Rush commented that these patriotic
> Yalies had better watch their backs when they return to New Haven, as
> well.
> 
> R.D.
> 
> As to Voltaire, I'll take him over Rousseau.  But, they are French.  I
> like the French, by the way.
> As long as they don't instruct me in politics.  Michaux was a great lover
> of Liberty who deeply impressed Gregory in his independence from the
> crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> I'm probably what you might call RadLib, but I like Jeffers. As well as
>> Frost and Faulkner. Pound and Eliot. (I named my son after Pound.) Love
>> Marianne Moore and Hemingway. Not Ryan. Just what DOES that make me?
>> (Well,
>> . . . a lover of good writing for one thing.)
>>
>> And one reason I've enjoyed this list is its openness to a variety of
>> writers, even those rather quickly dismissed by the Buffalo list. Those
>> who
>> I might be dismissive of had I not read "Poems by Others," for instance,
>> and
>> what everyone else has posted. I can try, in most cases successfully, to
>> find the value in these.
>>
>> It was Voltaire more than any other who changed tolerance from a vice
into
>> a
>> virtue. Lovely man.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
>> elemenope at icubed.com
>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:07 PM
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15
>>
>> Yes. Again, by anti-Liberal I do not mean anti Liberal Arts.  I mean
>> the ideology that advances its agenda through GOVERNMENT, in particular,
>> the vast entity and its IRS and related agencies inside what is called,
>> "The Beltway."  This ideology is also advanced by extra-Governmental
>> entities like the ACLU, founded by an avowed Communist and anti-American,
>> Roger Baldwin.
>>
>> Writers like Robinson Jeffers, Robert Frost, Faulkner and Ayn Rand were
>> congenitally unable to ever be identified with seditious
>> anti-Constitutional orgs.  I will not name in this post poets and writers
>> who stand in the RadLib camp.
>>
>> Nature, wild nature, is major in this argument.
>>
>> It is this split that is the central, hot, ever widening schism in the
>> politics of American art, IMHO.
>>
>> RD
>>
>>
>>>   14. Re: Jeffers (Jeff Newberry)
>>
>>> Message: 14
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:30:23 -0500
>>> From: "Jeff Newberry" <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jeffers
>>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
>>> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>> Message-ID:
>>> 	<731bb17a0701071630j470df85fha32cd584aa8cfa2a at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>
>>> Jeffers was anti-liberal?
>>>
>>> Jeff Newberry
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/7/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>>>> Jeffers attended the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which still
>>>> exists,
>>>> during the hell-with-the-lid-off era of the city's history.  So, he's
>>>> got
>>>> that Romantic Heideggerian Zarathustran poetic dwelling thing going fed
>>>> by
>>>> an artery back to hell-with-the-lid-off.  And, yes, I see Wright and
>>>> Jeffers as great American artists, anti-Liberal, like Frost, another
>>>> one
>>>> unregarded in the list of greats, sober, undrugged, seeking the victory
>>>> Ayn Rand exhorted.
>>>>
>>>> R.D.
>>>>
>>> --
>>> "Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than
>>> recollects,
>>> longer than knowing even wonders."
>>> -William Faulkner, Light in August
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Jan 11 11:39:48 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:39:48 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Best of 2006
Message-ID: <089D0277-8E06-42F3-92FA-D1A4731CD7FA@ripon.edu>

Read Bob Holman's pix for top 10 best poetry collections published  
last year:

http://poetry.about.com/od/poetrybooks/tp/bestbooks2006.htm?nl=1

He gives pride of place to Patricia Smith's *Teahouse of the  
Almighty*, a collection I also think is just terrific.

No Transtromer on his list, though. . . .


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 13:45:27 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:45:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <576592.81163.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

V. Morales (?) wrote:
"If 
they are poets, they are because, despite them, they
say something 
progressive."

No offense meant, sire, but I think this is gravely
mistaken. It's often hard to find the politics in
certain poets, but their "progressive" -- in political
or in "human" "universal" terms -- nature has nothing
to do with whether they're a "true" poet. Poets aren't
necessarily radicals, even in spite of themselves.
Alex

Skip: do stay with us, I don't know what all that was
about, but don't take it too seriously. Your posts are
good and fine. All political perspectives welcome
here, as far as I'm concerned -- other than all those
horrible, intolerant cagotz and caphars, that is ;)

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From skip at louisiana.edu  Thu Jan 11 14:17:36 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:17:36 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <576592.81163.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101c735b5$2d45a480$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Alexander--

Thanks. I wasn't leaving. Just not engaging in politics. I mean, who cares
what I think? Now it _is_ interesting to see how the
political/ideological/belief systems/cosmologies/whatever of writers effect
their work. And sometimes its interesting how well they can write despite
their political thinking (eg., Charles Olson's _Conversations at St.
Elizabeth's_).

I don't read read such things no matter who they are directed at. They're
generally not very interesting. Well, when Tom Paine writes them . . . but
then that's the writing.


-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:45 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 19

V. Morales (?) wrote:
"If 
they are poets, they are because, despite them, they
say something 
progressive."

No offense meant, sire, but I think this is gravely
mistaken. It's often hard to find the politics in
certain poets, but their "progressive" -- in political
or in "human" "universal" terms -- nature has nothing
to do with whether they're a "true" poet. Poets aren't
necessarily radicals, even in spite of themselves.
Alex

Skip: do stay with us, I don't know what all that was
about, but don't take it too seriously. Your posts are
good and fine. All political perspectives welcome
here, as far as I'm concerned -- other than all those
horrible, intolerant cagotz and caphars, that is ;)

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Jan 11 14:55:12 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:55:12 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Best of Net
Message-ID: <FAD042F2-415D-42D7-9E07-7A14B060B81F@ripon.edu>

I just discovered that the "Best of the Net 2006 " anthology  
mentioned here recently has already gone online:

http://www.sundress.net/bestof/

That's one thing I like about online publication--from acceptance to  
publication in days rather than months or years. . . .
========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Jan 11 16:12:17 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:12:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Best of 2006
References: <089D0277-8E06-42F3-92FA-D1A4731CD7FA@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <005b01c735c5$2fcad580$e5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I'll just say that Bob Holman's choices are extremely not mine, but that I respect them.  He's opne of the most open-minded poetry people around.  I do object to the "best" label.  I just sent off a feature to Big Bridge, a webzine, that is, in effect, the catalogue of a vizpo show I curated.  One of the things I did was a list called, "My Ten Favorites."

--Bob G.
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Thu Jan 11 17:30:37 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:30:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] 6. RE: Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31,
 Issue 15 (Skip Fox) (Skip Fox)
In-Reply-To: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2673.71.240.126.98.1168554637.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Skip,

I answered your question in a variety of ways.  It's okay if you can't
answer, most threads just fall into oblivion anyway.  However, I doubt
that your book will provide an authentic response to the answer for the
question you asked of me.

Most poets aren't Conservative as I define the term.  And, too many are
rewarded for being blatantly anti-American, like this one:

Mark Dow is the author of
> American Gulag: Inside Us Immigration Prisons (California 2004) and
> co-editor of Machinery Of Death: The Reality Of America's Death Penalty
> Regime (Routledge 2002).

Blatant RadLib propaganda out of Yale.  You'll note that Dow never
complains about the Gulags of the USSR. He keeps up the RadLib drumbeat
and wins the Yale Prize.  As I said, their glee club better watch their
backs.  What happened in San Francisco can just as easily happen in New
Haven.  But, you didn't plow the ground long or hard enough to learn about
the violant violation of the Yale Glee Club's Constitutional Rights of
Free Speech by RadLib thugs of the sort that threw missiles at Ann Coulter
in Arizona or attacked the head of the Minutemen when he spoke last Autumn
at Columbia.

RD




From elemenope at icubed.com  Thu Jan 11 18:01:49 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:01:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Liberty Vs. Progressivism in Poetry
In-Reply-To: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2320.71.240.126.98.1168556509.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Hi!

"Progressive" is a code word for "Socialist."  The use of poetry as a tool
to promote Socialism is self evident in too many cases to list. The
Sandinistan Communists created a department of poetry in their government.
 The American RadLib poet, Waldman, helped to run it.  This is an
excellent example of the hot conflict between those who affirm Liberty and
those who seek to "deconstruct Liberty" in the name of "Progressivism." 
The State ought to stay out of matters of free speech and conscience, in
other words, the heart of poetry.  People like Waldman think they own
poetry and seek power to amplify themselves through a government. 
Caroline Forche tries the same trick, just for the record.

"Reactionary" is a code word used by RadLib intellectuals to devalue the
animating impulse of LIBERTY.  Purple Finger Voters in Iraq were not
Reactionary to the IslamoFascists who tried to stop them from voting.
It is the IslamoFascistBaathists who are the reactionaries.  And who was
it that gave the Iraqis the chance to vote?  Certainly not the descendents
of Karl Marx.  (Plow through that, Mr. Fox.)

"Socialist Progressives" are "nice" people who would never pick up a fist
and beat the Yale Glee Club for singing the Star Spangled Banner in San
Francisco, California, U.S.A.  Bolos and rabid RadLibs do that sort of
trick in the name of the Revolution.  You will never read any poem by
Forche denouncing the violations of the rights of the American Yalies.
With Blame America Firsters, that's just the way it works.

I speak of "Liberty," I do not speak in reaction to "Progressivism." 
Liberty, as Wallace Stevens understood the term, opposes slavery, in
particular, the slavery of Marxian Totalitarian Socialism which would
conduct your life cradle to grave under the thrall of the Hugo Chavez
State.

Ever see an art gallery in the old USSR?  All the paintings were
landscapes and were painted with virtually the same hand.  Or the
paintings were patriotic placards. Hitler and Stalin and Saddam and Castro
demanded of their subjects the same sort of art.  And, tell me, to what
country did dissident Soviet artists escape when they decided to stop
being slaves?

I'll give Ginzy one point: When he visited the Sandinistan poetry workshop
and saw that all the poems were virtually identical he became alarmed and
said something about it to the poets.  But, they didn't know what he was
talking about because they had no notion of a truly personal internal
"LIBERTY" ANIMATING THEIR PENS!

RD





> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Vladimir Garcia
> Morales
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:20 AM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 15 (Skip
> Fox)
>
> Hello
>
> I have just subscribed to this mailing list and already followed this
> heated exchange with interest.
>
> I think that every poet, by the fact of being a poet, talks to humanity,
> to all humanity. If ideological concepts like 'state' and identification
> with certain 'politicians' appear in a work of art this is very
> secondary. The value of a work of art rests on how life enters in it,
> other  details, no matter how horrible can be, are secondary. Even when
> there are artists that are reactionary or conservatists, if they write
> poetry, their poetry can be read in a way which is useful to life (i.e.
> in a progressive way), in a way that contradicts the intentions (often
> manic) of the writer. This is the miracle of the work of art: it always
> goes beyond what is intended.
>
> Most of the writers you have mentioned are great masters. Already the
> left-wing thinker Adorno showed the fallacy of disregarding poets as
> Pound because of being reactionary (this is the fallacy of the late
> Lukacs and it is contained in his book "The destruction of reason"). If
> they are poets, they are because, despite them, they say something
> progressive. Exploring the possibilities of language is already
> progressive: language is both social and historical and in exploring its
> possibilities a tribute is paid to language and, therefore, to society.
>
> Cheers
> Vladimir Garc?a Morales




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Jan 11 18:05:23 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:05:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<2673.71.240.126.98.1168554637.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <007401c735d4$fca35550$e5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I often post a rough draft of a poem I've composed at my blog, and discuss 
what I did and what I was trying for, then post later drafts with comments 
about my changes, etc.  I think it's mainly because the creative process 
interests me as much or more than what results from it, but also because I 
have an innate need to teach.  A third reason is that I find talking about 
what I'm doing, whether to others or to just myself, helps me figure out 
what I want to do.

Anyway, what I was just wondering is if other poets have written essays in 
which they analyze the construction of one or more of their poems (as I did, 
in part, in my Of Manywhere-at-Once).  I know lots of critics have done this 
with poems not their own.  I also know that painters do it all the time, not 
in essays but in presentations, often taped..  I would imagine workshop 
poets do that, as well, although the ones I had didn't.

--Bob G. 




From tad at opus40.org  Thu Jan 11 19:25:32 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:25:32 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <200701111700.l0BH058X002748@wiz.cath.vt.edu><2673.71.240.126.98.1168554637.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<007401c735d4$fca35550$e5fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <005101c735e0$2c38b9d0$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I've done it -- not on my blog, but I'll do it sometimes to use in class for 
a discussion of revision.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering


>I often post a rough draft of a poem I've composed at my blog, and discuss 
>what I did and what I was trying for, then post later drafts with comments 
>about my changes, etc.  I think it's mainly because the creative process 
>interests me as much or more than what results from it, but also because I 
>have an innate need to teach.  A third reason is that I find talking about 
>what I'm doing, whether to others or to just myself, helps me figure out 
>what I want to do.
>
> Anyway, what I was just wondering is if other poets have written essays in 
> which they analyze the construction of one or more of their poems (as I 
> did, in part, in my Of Manywhere-at-Once).  I know lots of critics have 
> done this with poems not their own.  I also know that painters do it all 
> the time, not in essays but in presentations, often taped..  I would 
> imagine workshop poets do that, as well, although the ones I had didn't.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan 12 00:58:14 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:58:14 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Carbo Editor
Message-ID: <005701c7360e$a6090700$c4ec3652@ANNY>

Poetry Special Issue of Mipoesias dedicated to Asian American Poets:
http://www.mipoesias.com/Asian-American2007/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan 12 05:36:46 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:36:46 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman
Message-ID: <002901c73635$8f893910$bdaf3452@ANNY>

> From: Marc CHENETIER [mailto:chenetier.marc at wanadoo.fr] 
> Sent: 11 januari 2007 15:51



The European Whitman Association will hold its first meeting in Paris on February 23-24, 2007. The EWS aims to bring Whitman scholars from around the world to cooperate on various aspects-the European reception of Whitman's work, the latter's influence on European literatures and cultures, its translations into European languages and the position held by the author of Leaves of Grass in universities around the Old Continent (research, teaching, etc.). It will also seek to make it easier for young scholars to have access to Whitman archives in Europe and the US. For further information, please contact ?ric Athenot (Universit? Fran?ois-Rabelais, Tours): eric.athenot at wanadoo.fr




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Fri Jan 12 06:58:51 2007
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:58:51 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] 6. RE: Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31,
	Issue 15 (Skip Fox) (S...
Message-ID: <ca1.7a00322.32d8d1fb@aol.com>

 
Being against capital punishment nd daring to suggest that American prisons  
could be better run is anti-American?
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/11/2007 5:25:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
elemenope at icubed.com writes:

Skip,

I answered your question in a variety of ways.  It's  okay if you can't
answer, most threads just fall into oblivion  anyway.  However, I doubt
that your book will provide an authentic  response to the answer for the
question you asked of me.

Most poets  aren't Conservative as I define the term.  And, too many are
rewarded  for being blatantly anti-American, like this one:

Mark Dow is the  author of
> American Gulag: Inside Us Immigration Prisons (California  2004) and
> co-editor of Machinery Of Death: The Reality Of America's  Death Penalty
> Regime (Routledge 2002).

Blatant RadLib  propaganda out of Yale.  You'll note that Dow never
complains about  the Gulags of the USSR. He keeps up the RadLib drumbeat
and wins the Yale  Prize.  As I said, their glee club better watch their
backs.   What happened in San Francisco can just as easily happen in  New
Haven.  But, you didn't plow the ground long or hard enough to  learn about
the violant violation of the Yale Glee Club's Constitutional  Rights of
Free Speech by RadLib thugs of the sort that threw missiles at  Ann Coulter
in Arizona or attacked the head of the Minutemen when he spoke  last Autumn
at  Columbia.

RD


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry  mailing  list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




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From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Fri Jan 12 10:38:58 2007
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:38:58 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] 6. RE: Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31,
Message-ID: <4170.1168616338@opus40.org>

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan 12 14:33:47 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:33:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] McLuhan in Bayreuth
Message-ID: <003601c73680$948d9910$a1ec3652@ANNY>

> From: Kerstin Schmidt [mailto:KerstinSchmidt at uni-bayreuth.de] 
> Sent: vrijdag 12 januari 2007 14:36
.

International Conference

"Re-Reading McLuhan: An International Conference on Media and Culture in the 21st Century" (University of Bayreuth, February 14-18, 2007)

 

In cooperation with University of Toronto's "McLuhan Program in Culture and Technology," the University of Bayreuth (Germany) will host the international conference "Re-Reading McLuhan: An International Conference on Media and Culture in the 21st Century," which will convene at the Castle of Thurnau (close to Bayreuth) from February 14-18, 2007. For the conference program as well as more information on venue, speakers, participation, etc., please see our website at: http://mcluhan.uni-bayreuth.de 


Concept and organization:
Dr. Kerstin Schmidt (Bayreuth), Dr. Martina Leeker (Berlin), Prof. Dr. Derrick de Kerckhove (Toronto)

For more information: 
Bayreuth Institute for American Studies (BIAS)
University of Bayreuth
95440 Bayreuth, Germany
fon +49-(0)921-55 3560
fax +49-(0)921-55 3627 
bias at uni-bayreuth.de
http://americanstudies.uni-bayreuth.de 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you very much.

 

With best regards,

Kerstin Schmidt

 

 

Dr. Kerstin Schmidt
American Studies / Diaspora Studies
University of Bayreuth
95440 Bayreuth
Germany
Phone +49-(0)921-55-3583
Secr    +49-(0)921-55-3563 
Fax      +49-(0)921-55-3627
E-mail: KerstinSchmidt at uni-bayreuth.de
www.americanstudies.uni-bayreuth.de




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan 12 14:34:56 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:34:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The New York Times
Message-ID: <003f01c73680$bd834900$a1ec3652@ANNY>



     Friday, January 12, 2007  

      1. What Shamu Taught Me About a Happy Marriage

      2. The 10 Best Books of 2006 

      3. Questions Couples Should Ask (Or Wish They Had) Before Marrying

      4. Climate Expert Says NASA Tried to Silence Him 

      5. Colliding With Death at 37,000 Feet, and Living 

      6. What Is the Best Work of American Fiction of the Last 25 Years?

      7. Lure of Great Wealth Affects Career Choices

      8. Yankee Dies in Plane Crash, Official Says

      9. A Face Is Exposed for AOL Searcher No. 4417749

      10. A Ring Tone Meant to Fall on Deaf Ears 


     


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 13 07:27:01 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:27:01 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Riddle/poem: Who is it?
References: <4170.1168616338@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <003501c7370e$214135a0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

His poetastry sucks ink 
and rorschachs paper: 
it's a windbag, a kite without 
a string, prose in broken lines, 
camp and cant, bilge, blather, and poppycock. 
Its diction is a harlequin with a thesaurus. 
 
He misinterprets dead poets 
whose sharp skills scalp his sacrilege. 
He's a shyster ego-tripping 
up the ladder of the layman's ignorance 
of what poetry is all about. 
 
His fame lionizes lame ideas. 
His thoughts burn like a straw fire. 
He's a tin man yellowbricking Oz. 

______________________________________________

Jai Guru,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Sat Jan 13 13:36:25 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:36:25 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Riddle/poem: Who is it?
In-Reply-To: <003501c7370e$214135a0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <000701c73741$c1d5e190$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Their name is Legion.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Sue Grimes
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:27 AM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: [New-Poetry] Riddle/poem: Who is it?

 

His poetastry sucks ink 

and rorschachs paper: 

it's a windbag, a kite without 

a string, prose in broken lines, 

camp and cant, bilge, blather, and poppycock. 

Its diction is a harlequin with a thesaurus. 

He misinterprets dead poets 

whose sharp skills scalp his sacrilege. 

He's a shyster ego-tripping 

up the ladder of the layman's ignorance 

of what poetry is all about. 

His fame lionizes lame ideas. 

His thoughts burn like a straw fire. 

He's a tin man yellowbricking Oz. 

 

______________________________________________

 

Jai Guru,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history

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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 13:52:54 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Max Jacob preface in translation
In-Reply-To: <200701131700.l0DH058X014713@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <301238.76970.qm@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Note to all, and especially to Finnegan:
Courtesy of the (very warm, kind and helpful)
president of the Association des Amis de Max Jacob,
here is the English translation in which you can find
a translation of the famous 1916 preface concerning
the prose poem:

THE DICE CUP Selected prose poems Max Jacob
edited and with an introduction by Michael Brownstein
?ditions SUN 456 riverside Drive, New York, NY 10027

Good luck finding it....
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Sat Jan 13 14:42:09 2007
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:42:09 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
Message-ID: <d10.2b46b0b.32da9011@aol.com>

I'vr shown drafts of a poem ro a workshop where I was a guest. I shy away  
from showing my own writing in classes I teach.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan 13 16:00:53 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:00:53 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] BINOY MAJUMDAR
Message-ID: <011901c73755$ea335910$ceaa3852@ANNY>

One bright fish flew once
Only to sink again into the visibly blue, but truly
Transparent water - watching this pleasing sight
The fruit blushed red, ripening in a deep abyss of pain.


http://www.kaurab.com/poetry_peripherals/binoy.html


from time immemorial have these poems existed
like serene mathematics
lying in an unseen corner
awaiting discovery this autumn evening
in the Bakul grove under faint moonlight




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 13 17:12:54 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:12:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <d10.2b46b0b.32da9011@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007401c7375f$fd128a60$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  I'vr shown drafts of a poem ro a workshop where I was a guest. I shy away from showing my own writing in classes I teach.
  That's the way my teachers were.  I'd got the other way if I taught poetry.  To each his own, of course, but who would be better equipped to show how to write a poem than a poet using a poem of his own?

  No answer yet to my query as to whether there are any books around in which a poet takes readers through all the steps of one or more of his own poem's creation.  There have, I know, been anthologies in which poets discuss a favorite poem of their own, and often talk about what they did and why, but they don't usually do it with drafts of their poems.

  --Bob G.


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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 13 17:22:13 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:22:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <d10.2b46b0b.32da9011@aol.com>
	<007401c7375f$fd128a60$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <002d01c73761$470761d0$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I go back and forth on this. I'll do it sometimes, but always with trepidation. And when I do, it's for the reason Bob suggests -- that I can really talk about the process.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering



   
    I'vr shown drafts of a poem ro a workshop where I was a guest. I shy away from showing my own writing in classes I teach.
    That's the way my teachers were.  I'd got the other way if I taught poetry.  To each his own, of course, but who would be better equipped to show how to write a poem than a poet using a poem of his own? 

    No answer yet to my query as to whether there are any books around in which a poet takes readers through all the steps of one or more of his own poem's creation.  There have, I know, been anthologies in which poets discuss a favorite poem of their own, and often talk about what they did and why, but they don't usually do it with drafts of their poems. 

    --Bob G. 





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From LauraHeidy at aol.com  Sat Jan 13 18:10:18 2007
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:10:18 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
Message-ID: <571.df20605.32dac0da@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/13/2007 5:12:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

No answer yet to my query as to whether there are any books  around in which 
a poet takes readers through all the steps of one or more of  his own poem's 
creation.  There have, I know, been anthologies in which  poets discuss a 
favorite poem of their own, and often talk about what they did  and why, but they 
don't usually do it with drafts of their poems.  


I wish I could find it, but I can't.....I know there was a "call for  
submissions" which I received within the last 8 months or so in which they were  
asking that the author send in every working version of a completed poem  and 
explain, step-by-step why each change was made. 

As near as I can remember it was going to be an anthology of poems  which 
showed the work done.....much like publications of The "Waste Land" with  all the 
notes and changes.
 
Unfortunately, I can't remember who it was that was seeking  submissions.  I 
remember it caught my eye because I never save any "first"  versions - or any 
other version other than the completed one - and I began  wondering if I 
should or if other people do.  
 
Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
Lo
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From LauraHeidy at aol.com  Sat Jan 13 18:26:55 2007
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:26:55 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
Message-ID: <cbc.8b7eda6.32dac4bf@aol.com>

Ha!!  I DID find it, after all.  Of course, it's too late for  anyone to 
submit anything, but still, I managed to find it anyhow.
 
_http://lists.topica.com/lists/crwropps/read/message.html?mid=812274435&sort=d
&start=4440_ 
(http://lists.topica.com/lists/crwropps/read/message.html?mid=812274435&sort=d&start=4440) 
 
    anthology seeks  submissions: Poem, Revised        

Poem,  Revised: A Behind-the-Scenes Look at Writing Poetry

This is a  reminder that the deadline for submissions to the Poem,  Revised
anthology is September 1, 2006.

In 2008, Marion Street  Press (www.marionstreetpress.com) will publish Poem,
Revised -- A  Behind-the-Scenes Look at Writing Poetry. This anthology will
be  co-edited by Robert Hartwell Fiske and Laura Cherry. 

Poem, Revised  will be a collection of 50 to 100 poems, each accompanied by
one or  more earlier drafts of the poem, along with detailed comments on  why
and how the poet revised it.

We will want you to write about  the revisions in the first person ("I
changed the third line because it  was too repetitive...."). You will have as
much space as you need to  describe your revisions (though we may need to do
some editing). Your  commentary should be at least 300 words long. The more
detailed the  commentary, the more likely we will want to publish  your
submission.

Keep in mind that students will be reading this  book, so they should be
offered as much detail as possible. We want  enough detail to make the text
worthwhile. This book will be enjoyable  for working and aspiring poets to
browse, and it will be a good text  for poetry writing courses.

Since this text will also be used as a  teaching text, we encourage you to
describe your revision in the  language of the craft: word choice, syntax,
line breaks, line length,  meter/rhyme/form (if any),
consonance/assonance/alliteration,  metaphor/simile, tone, and so on.

We also encourage you to say  something about what you're trying to "do" in
or with the poem -- that  is, what is the project of the poem?

We will include a brief  biography on each poet selected for this volume. You
can mention your  profession, places your poems have appeared, and books
written.   (We also reserve the right to edit biographies.)

To all poets whose  poems, revisions, and comments are accepted, we can offer
$25, or $50  worth of Marion Street Press books, as well as two copies of
Poem,  Revised.

You will retain the copyright to your poems and other  material, but we will
register the copyright of the entire work under  Marion Street Press, Inc.

It is all right if your submitted poem  has been published elsewhere, but we
cannot pay for permission to  reprint. Please be sure that we may reprint the
poem without having to  pay a fee to do so.

This letter is our invitation to you to submit  your poem, earlier versions,
comments, and bio. Material is best sent  in a Microsoft Word file. You may
email your materials to  editor(at)vocabula.com 
(replace @ with (at).
(please use Poem,  Revised in the subject line). 
If you prefer to send hard copies of  marked-up drafts, they
can be mailed to:

Robert Hartwell  Fiske
Poem, Revised
5A Holbrook Court
Rockport, MA  01966

All submissions must be received by September 1,  2006.

A letter of confirmation will be sent to the poets whose  poems we decide to
include in Poem, Revised.

Let us know if you  have any questions, please. And do feel free to forward
this invitation  to poets whose work you respect.

Best wishes,

Robert  Hartwell Fiske
Laura Cherry
Editors
Poem,  Revised


--

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 13 19:04:52 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:04:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <cbc.8b7eda6.32dac4bf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <014701c7376f$a07bbd70$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Ha!!  I DID find it, after all.  Of course, it's too late for anyone to submit anything, but still, I managed to find it anyhow.


Thanks, Lo.  I now remembering seeing this, myself--at a time when I didn't have anything to submit, and suspected they wouldn't want visual poetry.  But the anthology sounds interesting, so I'll probably get a copy of it when it comes out.

--Bob G.

  
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 20:11:23 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:11:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Asian-American Issue of MiPOesias
In-Reply-To: <cbc.8b7eda6.32dac4bf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070114011123.31970.qmail@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

  Guest Edited by Nick Carbo:  http://www.mipoesias.com/Asian-American2007/ 
   
   
  And some very nice props already posted here:  http://asianamericanpoetry.blogspot.com/2007/01/mipoesias-magazine-2007-asian-american.html 
   
   
  Cheers,
   
  Amy King
   
   


 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 14 02:58:29 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:58:29 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <d10.2b46b0b.32da9011@aol.com>
	<007401c7375f$fd128a60$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <004301c737b1$c7cb0a60$59e83652@ANNY>

Bob,

this won't answer your question either, but it might be interesting within the context. Ted Nelson wanted to create a software that kept all the typewritten versions filed, so that at the end of writing you would have previous versions available.
Here are his words for : The Xanadu Model:

.  SIDE-BY-SIDE INTERCOMPARISON OF CONNECTED DOCUMENTS-- showing two-way links, differences between versions, origins of contexts.  (For a simple working demonstration, see our new free CosmicBook(tm) reader.) 
.  DEEP VERSION MANAGEMENT: documents may be changed incrementally (with each version available); versions may branch; authors may easily see exact differences between versions. 
.  INCREMENTAL PUBLISHING: new changes may be continually made by authors without breaking links.

http://xanadu.com/xuTheModel/


  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:12 PM


   
    I'vr shown drafts of a poem ro a workshop where I was a guest. I shy away from showing my own writing in classes I teach.
    That's the way my teachers were.  I'd got the other way if I taught poetry.  To each his own, of course, but who would be better equipped to show how to write a poem than a poet using a poem of his own? 

    No answer yet to my query as to whether there are any books around in which a poet takes readers through all the steps of one or more of his own poem's creation.  There have, I know, been anthologies in which poets discuss a favorite poem of their own, and often talk about what they did and why, but they don't usually do it with drafts of their poems. 

    --Bob G. 



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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 14 02:59:39 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:59:39 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <571.df20605.32dac0da@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005701c737b1$f181c060$59e83652@ANNY>

Laura,

I can remember that mail, but unluckily I do not know where to find it, either.

  From: LauraHeidy at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:10 AM


  In a message dated 1/13/2007 5:12:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    No answer yet to my query as to whether there are any books around in which a poet takes readers through all the steps of one or more of his own poem's creation.  There have, I know, been anthologies in which poets discuss a favorite poem of their own, and often talk about what they did and why, but they don't usually do it with drafts of their poems. 

  I wish I could find it, but I can't.....I know there was a "call for submissions" which I received within the last 8 months or so in which they were asking that the author send in every working version of a completed poem and explain, step-by-step why each change was made. 

  As near as I can remember it was going to be an anthology of poems which showed the work done.....much like publications of The "Waste Land" with all the notes and changes.

  Unfortunately, I can't remember who it was that was seeking submissions.  I remember it caught my eye because I never save any "first" versions - or any other version other than the completed one - and I began wondering if I should or if other people do.  

  Sorry I can't be of more help.

  Lo
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 14 03:00:28 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:00:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <cbc.8b7eda6.32dac4bf@aol.com>
	<014701c7376f$a07bbd70$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <006b01c737b2$0e789b80$59e83652@ANNY>

OK! Great!
  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 1:04 AM


  Ha!!  I DID find it, after all.  Of course, it's too late for anyone to submit anything, but still, I managed to find it anyhow.


  Thanks, Lo.  I now remembering seeing this, myself--at a time when I didn't have anything to submit, and suspected they wouldn't want visual poetry.  But the anthology sounds interesting, so I'll probably get a copy of it when it comes out.

  --Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 14 06:10:49 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 06:10:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <d10.2b46b0b.32da9011@aol.com><007401c7375f$fd128a60$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<004301c737b1$c7cb0a60$59e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003701c737cc$a949f180$8dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Thanks for the info on the side-by-cide comparison software.  It does sound very interesting.  Do you think it would work for visual poetry?

--Bob
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 14 07:13:44 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:13:44 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Just Wondering
References: <d10.2b46b0b.32da9011@aol.com><007401c7375f$fd128a60$d2fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004301c737b1$c7cb0a60$59e83652@ANNY>
	<003701c737cc$a949f180$8dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <011901c737d5$6fdf37d0$59e83652@ANNY>


I don't think Ted Nelson ever "made" it, he is one of the pioneers (or maybe The Pioneer) of the internet and his project was cut right at the beginning. I remember venturing and reading all his pages on the net some months ago thanks to Bill Lavender, our professor of the Cyber Lit course. 

On the other hand, and this was my counter-thesis, isn't easier to save your files with progressive numbers, something like this:

visualWork
visualWorkx
visualWorkxx

...

at the end you will have a work-in-progress you should so wish. At least this is what came to my mind as an easier way out.
  

  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:10 PM


  Thanks for the info on the side-by-cide comparison software.  It does sound very interesting.  Do you think it would work for visual poetry?

  --Bob
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 14 13:35:08 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:35:08 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Especially for Tad
Message-ID: <002801c7380a$b7f76260$59e83652@ANNY>

I finished watching Bob Dylan in No Direction Home by Martin Scorsese. I remember I was not too kind towards Dylan on this list. I would like now to praise this double Dvd for the mastery by which it was done. Better is the second part, that I watched a week ago, but also the first has some very interesting breakthroughs.

Till later,

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 14 13:38:19 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:38:19 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] impossibly bad poem
Message-ID: <c89.80dbc00.32dbd29b@aol.com>

 
I ran across this barb by Vendler. I don't know what poem/poet 
is being referred to or in what review it came from. Anyone  know?... 
It is impossible to write a poem so bad as this except through 
the desire to imitate. --Helen  Vendler 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 14 13:44:11 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:44:11 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: PENN: recordings of William Carlos Williams
Message-ID: <c95.738acb9.32dbd3fb@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/13/2007 5:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
afilreis at writing.upenn.edu writes:

Dear  friends of the Kelly Writers House and supporters
of  writing:

PENNsound is pleased to announce the release of the COMPLETE  
RECORDINGS OF WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS.   

_http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Williams-WC.html_ 
(http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound/x/Williams-WC.html) 

PENNsound  has had 10 million downloads since we opened two
years ago!

Al  Filreis & Charles Bernstein
Directors

PENNsound is a project of  the Center for Programs in Contemporary
Writing at the University of  Pennsylvania.

_http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound_ (http://writing.upenn.edu/pennsound) 




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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 14:31:27 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:31:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] voix off posts
In-Reply-To: <200701141700.l0EH068X004273@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20070116193127.38308.qmail@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello, NewPo friends!
Here are some more Voix Off posts from the last month
or so, mostly in French and English. Btw, you may have
to scroll down to find the translation. Enjoy!
Amicalement,
Alex

Kilncelan.

L'Immusique et les Lettres: Unmusic and Letters (2)

Joaqu?n Pasos, po?te: Joaqu?n Pasos, poet

Henri Droguet, un po?te m?connu: Henri Droguet, an
underrated poet

Pierre Joris on Mistranslated Menus: Pierre Joris sur
les cartes mal traduites

Thanks to mIEKAL aND for...: Merci ? mIEKAL aND...

Tiny Poem: Po?me minuscule (9)

Tiny Poem: Po?me minuscule (8)

Tiny Poem: Po?me minuscule (7)

Two New Translations of Aaron Belz in Sitaudis: Deux
nouvelles traductions d'Aaron Belz dans Sitaudis

Ce qu'on dit au philosophe ? propos de po?tes?: Poetry
and Philosophy

Two Tiny Poems: Deux po?mes minuscules (2)

Thanks to Taking the Brim: Merci ? Taking the Brim

Tiny poem: Po?me minuscule (6)

James Sacr?, po?te grammairien: James Sacr?,
Grammarian-Poet 

L'Immusique et les Lettres: Unmusic and Letters



www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 16:17:11 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:17:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Calls for Proposals (Conference on College Literary &
	Visual Arts Magazines)
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701161317v10f7f04fi406432736ddef8f3@mail.gmail.com>

First Annual Conference on College Literary and Visual Arts Magazines

Call for Proposals

Workshops, Panel discussions, Interactive sessions (length 50-90 minutes)

 Date: Friday, April 13, 2007

Time: 8:30 am-5pm; Place:  ABAC, Tifton, GA



featuring



Sara Pennington,  Editor, The Southeast Review as keynote speaker

Black Dog Java Girls Performance Poetry, from Tallahassee, Florida

Open mic reading

 Topics suggested but not limited to: Role of Advisors; Parameters for
Editing; Technologies for Publishing; Role of College Student Magazines;
Funding Magazines; Student Editors; Magazine Layouts; Visual Arts for
College Magazines.



 Deadline for proposals, 200-300 words: Feb 15, 2007



Contact Su Senapati or Herbert Shippey

Humanities Division, Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College

ABAC 20, 2802 Moore Highway

Tifton, GA 31793-2601

Fax: (229) 391-4951

Email: ssenapati at abac.edu or hshippey at abac.edu

Tel (229) 391-4970 or 4971





Sponsored by the Stafford Fine Arts Series and Pegasus, ABAC's Literary
Magazine


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From duemer at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 07:47:51 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:47:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: list troubles
In-Reply-To: <e8b111d70701151907t769590bkc303fbe50876bb20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8b111d70701151907t769590bkc303fbe50876bb20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701160447t59fcc7b1wc55b57f5d9fdf6e1@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry about that post, people, I hit the wrong line in my mail program.
Sorry for any possible confusion--all of which is mine.

Joe

On 1/15/07, Joseph Duemer <duemer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi folks. Anny & I seem to be having problems posting to the list, though
> at least in my case my comments to others show up. I have sent an email to
> Jiscmail, b ut I'm trying to suss out what's going on. If this message shows
> up on the list, could a couple of folks respond, please. Obviously, I only
> need a couple of responses & I'm sorry for cluttering things up, but I'd
> like to clear up the problem whatever it is. Thanks.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Joseph Duemer
> Professor of Humanities
> Clarkson University
> [sharpsand.n




-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.net]
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Jan 16 12:37:31 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:37:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Georgia Review
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701160937y12f71072i2d05b1155467d75f@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone in the Athens/Atlanta area might be interested.

Jeff Newberry

Dear All,

Along with the usual apologies for repeat postings, I offer an invitation to
The Georgia Review's issue-release party this Thursday night at Tasty World
from 6-9. With refreshments from the Tuscan Market, eating and mingling will
commence at 6, and readings by Ed Pavlic and George Singleton will commence
at 7:30.  The details are below, in a blurb I hope you will share with
spouses, friends, students, and other interested Athenians.

Hope you can join us!

Thanks,
Dorine Preston
Assistant to the Editors
The Georgia Review
706-542-0056 / dopresto at uga.edu

**
*THE GEORGIA REVIEW*: ISSUE-RELEASE PARTY. Sponsored by *The Georgia Review*,
UGA's award-winning literary magazine < www.uga.edu/garev/>, currently
celebrating its sixtieth year of continuous publication. Join us for a
celebration of our Fall/Winter 2006 issue! THURSDAY, JANUARY 18. Upstairs at
Tasty World between 6-9 PM; readings will commence at 7:30 PM.   Let us
treat you to delicious food, lively conversation, and a reading by George
Singleton, whose story "Which Rocks We Choose" appears in our Summer 2006
issue. Ed Pavlic, poet and Director of the Creative Writing Program at UGA,
will open the reading.



To read an excerpt from Singleton's story "Which Rocks We Choose," go to
www.uga.edu/garev and see the Summer 2006 issue.



An excerpt from Ed Pavlic's "Call it in the Air":



Last time I saw you on your feet

we climbed Mt. Shavano to have lunch

on the angel's hip. Year by year step by step you led me

up past the line where trees grow past

the link where shrubs cling to rocks & you tell

south by the lichen. I hesitate when my lungs begin

to ache, lose a full step for your every two.

We pass the line where grizzlies plunder

pine cones stores of black cat-eared alpine

squirrels. Empty craters that smell of thin green

air. We're into the zone of the all too recently disturbed

stones where grizzlies find moths that blow

in off the plains of Kansas and Nebraska

to mate in the rubble beyond the tree line.

I don't want to know any of this, but I do. You do too

but could give a damn ?





Full text available in *Inertia Magazine* Issue 3 at
www.inertiamagazine.com/i3/pavlic.html.



Ed Pavlic's work has also appeared recently in *Memorious*:
http://www.memorious.org/?id=127



and *The Cortland Review* http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/27/pavlic.html
.




-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Tue Jan 16 22:23:38 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:23:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,
LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just stepped off
that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to his
right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.

Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the quote, don't
have it here.

For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret messages
in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story and get
an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix rendition, in
particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which sometimes
seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.

But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I missed it,
but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack or at
the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the IzzyGhouls in
Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a promethean bard
guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from the
electric flyover country music side.

And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't exactly
chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song. 
Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who faced with
an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void. ("There but
for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff The Majik
Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints), haven't
released any new songs about the advent of the promise of Makmadinijad to
lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come through for
the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still touring
remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him for the
last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last metamorphosis.  I
pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out there he
isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.


"there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.

Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

"no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.

But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

====

R.D.







From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 16 22:26:08 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:26:08 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <7593A4F1-DD8E-48C0-9C68-AC2FC213B66B@ripon.edu>

Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop- 
culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly  
consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap  
scorn on those who hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance  
man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political  
commentator.

His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the  
media who want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes  
interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.

You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of  
failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40  
years.



On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:

> I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,
> LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just  
> stepped off
> that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to  
> his
> right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
>
> Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
> Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the  
> quote, don't
> have it here.
>
> For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret  
> messages
> in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story  
> and get
> an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix  
> rendition, in
> particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which  
> sometimes
> seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
>
> But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I  
> missed it,
> but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
> Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack  
> or at
> the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the  
> IzzyGhouls in
> Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a  
> promethean bard
> guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from  
> the
> electric flyover country music side.
>
> And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
> unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't  
> exactly
> chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.
> Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who  
> faced with
> an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.  
> ("There but
> for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff  
> The Majik
> Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),  
> haven't
> released any new songs about the advent of the promise of  
> Makmadinijad to
> lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come  
> through for
> the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still  
> touring
> remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him  
> for the
> last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
> at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last  
> metamorphosis.  I
> pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out  
> there he
> isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
>
>
> "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
>
> Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
> None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
>
> "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
> "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
>
> But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
> So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
>
> All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
> While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
>
> Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
> Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
>
> ====
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 22:26:25 2007
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:26:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <76885.68761.qm@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Recently on Silliman?s Blog

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

Guide to Homage
to Sextus Propertius
by Bob Perelman

IFLIFE is Bob Perelman?s
most ambitious and successful book

On being called out
By Reginald Shepherd

Kingdom Books
of Waterford Vermont

Redefining the NY School
(Sienese-Shredder #1)

New bookstores
and the rate of decline 
of the independents

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan 16 22:31:37 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:31:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <00f301c739e8$030eb580$bcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

My mind went blank while writing about kinds of poems at my blog this 
evening: I couldn't think of any famous ones (or even little-known ones) 
that were about something inanimate, a mountain, say.  Ah, I remember my 
favorite: lighght!  But what others that are more normal-sized?  Anyone 
know?

--Bob G. 




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 16 22:35:22 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:35:22 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <00f301c739e8$030eb580$bcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<00f301c739e8$030eb580$bcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <C30D5640-D23A-4724-A4D7-B5710FD29371@ripon.edu>

Neruda's several books of *Elemental Odes* spring to mind:  marvelous  
poems about salt, dictionaries, socks, etc.



On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:31 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> My mind went blank while writing about kinds of poems at my blog  
> this evening: I couldn't think of any famous ones (or even little- 
> known ones) that were about something inanimate, a mountain, say.   
> Ah, I remember my favorite: lighght!  But what others that are more  
> normal-sized?  Anyone know?
>
> --Bob G.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From cheekc at muohio.edu  Tue Jan 16 22:54:53 2007
From: cheekc at muohio.edu (cheekc)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:54:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <2BF2EF75-A2E7-44EE-B190-B6C2724DB01E@muohio.edu>

well RD u just see it all so differently

nobody doubts that what happened on 11/9 caused pain and suffering  
(in a gradual train-wreck of pain and suffering in many places  
occurring over decades)
but the response has been woefully unchristian, utterly lacking in  
any vision for the possibility of any humanity other than on terms  
dictated by a nauseous version of bigotry masquerading as Christianity

i know that you won't agree

but that's how i read it from here in teh mid-west
this is not a time for sloganeering and Dylan knows that too

;)

love and love
cris

On Jan 16, 2007, at 10:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:

> I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,
> LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just  
> stepped off
> that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to  
> his
> right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
>
> Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
> Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the  
> quote, don't
> have it here.
>
> For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret  
> messages
> in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story  
> and get
> an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix  
> rendition, in
> particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which  
> sometimes
> seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
>
> But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I  
> missed it,
> but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
> Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack  
> or at
> the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the  
> IzzyGhouls in
> Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a  
> promethean bard
> guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from  
> the
> electric flyover country music side.
>
> And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
> unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't  
> exactly
> chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.
> Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who  
> faced with
> an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.  
> ("There but
> for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff  
> The Majik
> Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),  
> haven't
> released any new songs about the advent of the promise of  
> Makmadinijad to
> lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come  
> through for
> the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still  
> touring
> remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him  
> for the
> last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
> at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last  
> metamorphosis.  I
> pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out  
> there he
> isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
>
>
> "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
>
> Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
> None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
>
> "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
> "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
>
> But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
> So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
>
> All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
> While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
>
> Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
> Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
>
> ====
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From SLIDINGSCA at aol.com  Tue Jan 16 22:57:32 2007
From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com (SLIDINGSCA at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:57:32 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <cb7.7da0597.32def8ac@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/16/2007 10:30:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

My mind  went blank while writing about kinds of poems at my blog this 
evening: I  couldn't think of any famous ones (or even little-known ones) 
that were  about something inanimate, a mountain, say.  Ah, I remember my  
favorite: lighght!  But what others that are more normal-sized?   Anyone 
know?

--Bob G. 
This Alexandr Blok poem has lots of inaminate objects, light included.  
(Note: My translation renders content and sequence and some prosody; rhyme  is 
jettisoned.)
 

Night, avenue, street lamp, the drug store,
Irrational and dusky light.
Live another quarter century--
It stays the same; there's no way out.
You'll die, then start from the beginning
And everything begins as old:
Night, the icy ripple of the canal,
The drug store, avenue, and lamp.
 
Larissa  Shmailo_  slidingsca at aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca at aol.com) 
http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
Listen to  The No-Net World
at http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
and on  iTunes
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 16 23:00:55 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:00:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <cb7.7da0597.32def8ac@aol.com>
References: <cb7.7da0597.32def8ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2CB6AEC0-D5FC-4229-99F6-6EF859C93A77@ripon.edu>

Interesting one by Robert Francis:


Silent Poem



backroad leafmold stonewall chipmunk



underbrush grapevine woodchuck shadblow



woodsmoke cowbarn honeysuckle woodpile



sawhorse bucksaw outhouse wellsweep



backdoor flagstone bulkhead buttermilk



candlestick ragrug firedog brownbread



hilltop outcrop cowbell buttercup



whetstone thunderstorm pitchfork steeplebrush



gristmill millstone cornmeal waterwheel



watercress buckwheat firefly jewelweed



gravestone groundpine windbreak bedrock



weathercock snowfall starlight cockcrow


========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan 16 23:10:51 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:10:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <cb7.7da0597.32def8ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <011e01c739ed$7c725ad0$bcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

My mind went blank while writing about kinds of poems at my blog this 
evening: I couldn't think of any famous ones (or even little-known ones) 
that were about something inanimate, a mountain, say.  Ah, I remember my 
favorite: lighght!  But what others that are more normal-sized?  Anyone 
know?

--Bob G. 
  This Alexandr Blok poem has lots of inaminate objects, light included. (Note: My translation renders content and sequence and some prosody; rhyme is jettisoned.)

  Night, avenue, street lamp, the drug store,
  Irrational and dusky light.
  Live another quarter century--
  It stays the same; there's no way out.
  You'll die, then start from the beginning
  And everything begins as old:
  Night, the icy ripple of the canal,
  The drug store, avenue, and lamp.

  Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com

  Nice, but I forgot to say I was thinking of poems exclusively about inanimate objects.

  --Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Jan 16 23:11:49 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:11:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <cb7.7da0597.32def8ac@aol.com>
	<2CB6AEC0-D5FC-4229-99F6-6EF859C93A77@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <012801c739ed$9e8d20f0$bcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I liked this one a lot, but only for six or seven lines. . . .  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:00 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  Interesting one by Robert Francis:





  Silent Poem



  backroad leafmold stonewall chipmunk 



  underbrush grapevine woodchuck shadblow 



  woodsmoke cowbarn honeysuckle woodpile 



  sawhorse bucksaw outhouse wellsweep 



  backdoor flagstone bulkhead buttermilk 



  candlestick ragrug firedog brownbread 



  hilltop outcrop cowbell buttercup 



  whetstone thunderstorm pitchfork steeplebrush 



  gristmill millstone cornmeal waterwheel 



  watercress buckwheat firefly jewelweed 



  gravestone groundpine windbreak bedrock 



  weathercock snowfall starlight cockcrow 



  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ==========================================








------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From chris.kelly at nyu.edu  Tue Jan 16 23:39:07 2007
From: chris.kelly at nyu.edu (Christopher Kelly)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:39:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <2BF2EF75-A2E7-44EE-B190-B6C2724DB01E@muohio.edu>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<2BF2EF75-A2E7-44EE-B190-B6C2724DB01E@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <d427d4f6312d.45ad621b@mail.nyu.edu>


In this context, I might suggest that Dylan's "secret meanings" be
measured against the statement he offered at conclusion of his
performance at 1985's Live Aid Concert: "It would be nice if some of
this money went to the American farmers." 







----- Original Message -----
From: cheekc <cheekc at muohio.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan

> well RD u just see it all so differently
> 
> nobody doubts that what happened on 11/9 caused pain and suffering  
> (in a gradual train-wreck of pain and suffering in many places  
> occurring over decades)
> but the response has been woefully unchristian, utterly lacking in  
> any vision for the possibility of any humanity other than on terms  
> dictated by a nauseous version of bigotry masquerading as Christianity
> 
> i know that you won't agree
> 
> but that's how i read it from here in teh mid-west
> this is not a time for sloganeering and Dylan knows that too
> 
> ;)
> 
> love and love
> cris
> 
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 10:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
> 
> > I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was 
> long,> LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had 
> just  
> > stepped off
> > that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend 
> to  
> > his
> > right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
> >
> > Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of 
> which> Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out 
> the  
> > quote, don't
> > have it here.
> >
> > For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret  
> > messages
> > in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside 
> story  
> > and get
> > an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix  
> > rendition, in
> > particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which  
> > sometimes
> > seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
> >
> > But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I  
> > missed it,
> > but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the 
> World> Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter 
> attack  
> > or at
> > the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the  
> > IzzyGhouls in
> > Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a  
> > promethean bard
> > guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work 
> from  
> > the
> > electric flyover country music side.
> >
> > And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and 
> provided his
> > unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't  
> > exactly
> > chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit 
> song.> Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those 
> who  
> > faced with
> > an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.  
> > ("There but
> > for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff  
> > The Majik
> > Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),  
> > haven't
> > released any new songs about the advent of the promise of  
> > Makmadinijad to
> > lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come  
> > through for
> > the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still 
> 
> > touring
> > remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into 
> him  
> > for the
> > last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
> > at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last  
> > metamorphosis.  I
> > pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out  
> > there he
> > isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
> >
> >
> > "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> > "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
> >
> > Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
> > None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
> >
> > "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
> > "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
> >
> > But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
> > So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
> >
> > All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
> > While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
> >
> > Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
> > Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
> >
> > ====
> >
> > R.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


From duemer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 15 22:07:34 2007
From: duemer at gmail.com (Joseph Duemer)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:07:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] list troubles
Message-ID: <e8b111d70701151907t769590bkc303fbe50876bb20@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks. Anny & I seem to be having problems posting to the list, though at
least in my case my comments to others show up. I have sent an email to
Jiscmail, b ut I'm trying to suss out what's going on. If this message shows
up on the list, could a couple of folks respond, please. Obviously, I only
need a couple of responses & I'm sorry for cluttering things up, but I'd
like to clear up the problem whatever it is. Thanks.

Joe

-- 
Joseph Duemer
Professor of Humanities
Clarkson University
[sharpsand.n
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan 17 01:23:14 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:23:14 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] list troubles
References: <e8b111d70701151907t769590bkc303fbe50876bb20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003f01c739ff$f89bc3f0$8aa33852@ANNY>

Hello Joe,

a perfect message. I will have to change with my gmail account for Poetryetc. I think this is the only way out for me, as I noticed you did. Thank you for your support and efforts in trying to get things straightened out.

Till later, Anny
  From: Joseph Duemer 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:07 AM


  Hi folks. Anny & I seem to be having problems posting to the list, though at least in my case my comments to others show up. I have sent an email to Jiscmail, b ut I'm trying to suss out what's going on. If this message shows up on the list, could a couple of folks respond, please. Obviously, I only need a couple of responses & I'm sorry for cluttering things up, but I'd like to clear up the problem whatever it is. Thanks. 

  Joe

  -- 
  Joseph Duemer
  Professor of Humanities
  Clarkson University
  [sharpsand.n 
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From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk  Wed Jan 17 03:41:19 2007
From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:41:19 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <7593A4F1-DD8E-48C0-9C68-AC2FC213B66B@ripon.edu>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<7593A4F1-DD8E-48C0-9C68-AC2FC213B66B@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <1169023279.45ade12fca73e@webmail.ukonline.net>

OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with something like 
Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose that's 
what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now. 

My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is bedded in his 
folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry ballads. It 
can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer has the 
authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm trying to say is 
that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or national 
issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in this case 
is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of every kind 
are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is blatantly not 
up to such challenges. 









Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:

> Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop- 
> culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly  
> consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap  
> scorn on those who hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance  
> man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political  
> commentator.
> 
> His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the  
> media who want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes  
> interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.
> 
> You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of  
> failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40  
> years.
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
> 
> > I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,
> > LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just  
> > stepped off
> > that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to  
> > his
> > right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
> >
> > Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
> > Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the  
> > quote, don't
> > have it here.
> >
> > For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret  
> > messages
> > in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story  
> > and get
> > an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix  
> > rendition, in
> > particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which  
> > sometimes
> > seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
> >
> > But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I  
> > missed it,
> > but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
> > Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack  
> > or at
> > the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the  
> > IzzyGhouls in
> > Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a  
> > promethean bard
> > guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from  
> > the
> > electric flyover country music side.
> >
> > And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
> > unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't  
> > exactly
> > chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.
> > Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who  
> > faced with
> > an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.  
> > ("There but
> > for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff  
> > The Majik
> > Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),  
> > haven't
> > released any new songs about the advent of the promise of  
> > Makmadinijad to
> > lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come  
> > through for
> > the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still  
> > touring
> > remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him  
> > for the
> > last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
> > at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last  
> > metamorphosis.  I
> > pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out  
> > there he
> > isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
> >
> >
> > "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> > "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
> >
> > Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
> > None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
> >
> > "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
> > "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
> >
> > But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
> > So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
> >
> > All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
> > While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
> >
> > Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
> > Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
> >
> > ====
> >
> > R.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> 
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ==========================================
> 
> 
> 
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net


From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Wed Jan 17 06:10:35 2007
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:10:35 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
Message-ID: <d2c.4a4b2ef.32df5e2b@aol.com>

There a replenty of folks who have taken up Dylan's mantle and are writing  
protest songs. Neil Young's "Living With War" is only one example, and on  
Young's website there is a place where songwriters and bands can upload their  own 
protest songs. I particularly recommend Jim Clark's "One Night Late" and The  
Near Myths' "Fool Me Once." 
 
Even hte msot cursory listen to Dylan's recent trio of albums will find no  
shortage of apocalypitic musings, even if he isn't commenting directly on 9-11  
or the Iraq War. Dylan is smart enough to know how transitory all this is. 
But  he still can take a stand; here are the lyrics to his song "Working man's 
Blues"  from his last album "Modern Times":
 
"Workingman's Blues #2"

There's  an evening haze settling over town 
Starlight by the edge of the creek  
The buying power of the proletariat's gone down 
Money's getting shallow  and weak 
Well, the place I love best is a sweet memory 
It's a new path  that we trod 
They say low wages are a reality 
If we want to compete  abroad 

My cruel weapons have been put on the shelf 
Come sit down on  my knee 
You are dearer to me than myself 
As you yourself can see  
While I'm listening to the steel rails hum 
Got both eyes tight shut  
Just sitting here trying to keep the hunger from 
Creeping it's way into  my gut 

Meet me at the bottom, don't lag behind 
Bring me my boots and  shoes 
You can hang back or fight your best on the frontline 
Sing a  little bit of these workingman's blues 

Well, I'm sailing on back, ready  for the long haul 
Tossed by the winds and the seas 
I'll drag them all  down to hell and I'll stand them at the wall 
I'll sell them to their enemies  
I'm trying to feed my soul with thought 
Going to sleep off the rest of  the day 
Sometimes no one wants what we got 
Sometimes you can't give it  away 

Now the place is ringed with countless foes 
Some of them may be  deaf and dumb 
No man, no woman knows 
The hour that sorrow will come  
In the dark I hear the night birds call 
I can feel a lover's breath  
I sleep in the kitchen with my feet in the hall 
Sleep is like a  temporary death 

Well, they burned my barn, and they stole my horse 
I  can't save a dime 
I got to be careful, I don't want to be forced 
Into a  life of continual crime 
I can see for myself that the sun is sinking 
How  I wish you were here to see 
Tell me now, am I wrong in thinking 
That you  have forgotten me? 

Now they worry and they hurry and they fuss and they  fret 
They waste your nights and days 
Them I will forget 
But you I'll  remember always 
Old memories of you to me have clung 
You've wounded me  with your words 
Gonna have to straighten out your tongue 
It's all true,  everything you've heard 

In you, my friend, I find no blame 
Wanna  look in my eyes, please do 
No one can ever claim 
That I took up arms  against you 
All across the peaceful sacred fields 
They will lay you low  
They'll break your horns and slash you with steel 
I say it so it must be  so 

Now I'm down on my luck and I'm black and blue 
Gonna give you  another chance 
I'm all alone and I'm expecting you 
To lead me off in a  cheerful dance 
I got a brand new suit and a brand new wife 
I can live on  rice and beans 
Some people never worked a day in their life 
Don't know  what work even means.

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From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Jan 17 09:57:28 2007
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:57:28 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
Message-ID: <4305.1169045848@opus40.org>

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan 17 10:05:04 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:05:04 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <cb7.7da0597.32def8ac@aol.com>
	<011e01c739ed$7c725ad0$bcfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <018201c73a48$de602e10$3baf3452@ANNY>

I thought of this thread, from mIEKAL aND's post to the buffalo:

**'4 around 1'**
Jukka-Pekka Kervinen
  THROUGH LIGHT (#1, katha)
  AND NONE (#2, isa)
  INHALING (#3, taitturuya)
  IS BEHIND (#4, aitareya)
The first in this new series, four chapbooks with a sing-
le concern, this time, a computer manipulation of texts
taken from the Hindu Upanishads. It's interesting to see
how words of a spiritual nature are mixed with every-
thing 'including the kitchen sink' -- computer code, words
and parts of words with no relation to anything but the
air in the center of the heart.

Rob McLennan -- ottawa poems (blue notes) -- Wonder-
ful blues-like improvisations on the poet's home-city char-
acterized by diverse spatial arrays. The poems show Mc-
Lennan's affection for the city.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and here is the entire message:

NEW CBOOKS FROM SMALL CHAPBOOK PROJECT

for early 2007, we present EIGHT new chapbooks, in-
cluding the first '4 around 1', four full-length cbooks by
one writer concerning a matter of his/her own interest.

THE CHAPBOOKS

mIEKAL aND -- Logos Longshot -- essays in poly-
artistry & human interaction. Early notes to aND's life-
work, Samsara Congeries, having a dense syntax and
idea-proliferation.

Martha Deed -- 65 X 65 -- an autobiography in 65 short
paragraphs portraying people important to the poet's
spiritual development, people who have left an imprint.

Michelle Greenblatt/Sheila E Murphy -- Ghazals 1--19
-- An intriguing collaboraiton by two poets in different
stages of their poetic careers. A ghazal is a Persian ecs-
tatic lyric song, with a single voice for the reader.

**'4 around 1'**
Jukka-Pekka Kervinen
  THROUGH LIGHT (#1, katha)
  AND NONE (#2, isa)
  INHALING (#3, taitturuya)
  IS BEHIND (#4, aitareya)
The first in this new series, four chapbooks with a sing-
le concern, this time, a computer manipulation of texts
taken from the Hindu Upanishads. It's interesting to see
how words of a spiritual nature are mixed with every-
thing 'including the kitchen sink' -- computer code, words
and parts of words with no relation to anything but the
air in the center of the heart.

Rob McLennan -- ottawa poems (blue notes) -- Wonder-
ful blues-like improvisations on the poet's home-city char-
acterized by diverse spatial arrays. The poems show Mc-
Lennan's affection for the city.

HOW TO ORDER THESE CBOOKS:

Send $6 per title ($20 for the '4 around 1' series), plus $1
per title shipping, to:
 Peter Ganick
 small chapbook project
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 West Hartford CT 06107-1539
For international postage, please inquire.
All packages shipped Media Mail. Inquire about 'first class'.
Please include your email address with order.

HOW TO SUBMIT A MANUSCRIPT:

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directions. All books are printed on heavy, bright-white
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Wed Jan 17 10:43:35 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:43:35 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <7593A4F1-DD8E-48C0-9C68-AC2FC213B66B@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <004b01c73a4e$460d3800$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

And he was my first poet. On a jukebox in mid-sixties at a bar I drank at.
"Positively 4th Street." Not _that's_ a vision.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:26 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan

 

Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop-culture
prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly consistent
about it all these years, and has done little but heap scorn on those who
hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance man," not a social
activist, generational spokesman, or political commentator.  

 

His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the media who
want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes interview with the
late Ed Bradley for more of the same.

 

You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of failing
to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40 years.  

 

 

 

On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:





I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,

LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just stepped off

that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to his

right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.

 

Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which

Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the quote, don't

have it here.

 

For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret messages

in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story and get

an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix rendition, in

particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which sometimes

seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.

 

But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I missed it,

but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World

Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack or at

the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the IzzyGhouls in

Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a promethean bard

guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from the

electric flyover country music side.

 

And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his

unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't exactly

chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song. 

Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who faced with

an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void. ("There but

for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff The Majik

Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints), haven't

released any new songs about the advent of the promise of Makmadinijad to

lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come through for

the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still touring

remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him for the

last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him

at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last metamorphosis.  I

pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out there he

isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.

 

 

"there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,

"there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.

 

Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,

None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

 

"no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,

"there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.

 

But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,

So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

 

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view

While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

 

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,

Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

 

====

 

R.D.

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________

New-Poetry mailing list

New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

 

 

========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:

http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html

Poetry Library:

http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

==========================================

 





 

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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 17 11:52:23 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:52:23 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
References: <4305.1169045848@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <004c01c73a57$dcb7fe80$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

What is your opinion about this topic?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: opus40-01 at opus40.org 
  To: 'NewPoetry at smapp03.chicago.hostway.net : Contemporary Poetry News &Views' 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan


  "Neighborhood Bully" would be a Dylan song on an international topic.




  Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
  His enemies say he's on their land.
  They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
  He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
  He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
  He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
  He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
  He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
  Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
  He's always on trial for just being born.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
  Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
  Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
  The bombs were meant for him.
  He was supposed to feel bad.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
  That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
  'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
  And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  He got no allies to really speak of.
  What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
  He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
  But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
  They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
  Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
  To hurt one they would weep.
  They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
  Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
  He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
  In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
  No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
  He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
  Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  What's anybody indebted to him for?
  Nothin', they say.
  He just likes to cause war.
  Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
  They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
  He's the neighborhood bully.

  What has he done to wear so many scars?
  Does he change the course of rivers?
  Does he pollute the moon and stars?
  Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
  Running out the clock, time standing still,
  Neighborhood bully.



  But in general, I'd say that war has inspired many songs on international themes, from "Hans Beimler, Our Commissar" to "Sink the Bismarck."



  On Wed Jan 17 3:41 , m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk sent:


    OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with something like 
    Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose that's 
    what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now. 

    My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is bedded in his 
    folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry ballads. It 
    can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer has the 
    authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm trying to say is 
    that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or national 
    issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in this case 
    is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of every kind 
    are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is blatantly not 
    up to such challenges. 









    Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:

    > Gee, did you miss the memo on this? Dylan disavowed his role as pop- 
    > culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963. In fact, he's been highly 
    > consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap 
    > scorn on those who hold him up as role model. He's a "song-and-dance 
    > man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political 
    > commentator.
    > 
    > His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the 
    > media who want him to be a social prophet. Also see his 60 Minutes 
    > interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.
    > 
    > You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of 
    > failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40 
    > years.
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
    > 
    > > I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour. This was long,
    > > LONG ago. Met him in an airport. He looked as if he had just 
    > > stepped off
    > > that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to 
    > > his
    > > right. Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
    > >
    > > Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
    > > Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean." I'll dig out the 
    > > quote, don't
    > > have it here.
    > >
    > > For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret 
    > > messages
    > > in his lyrics. Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story 
    > > and get
    > > an edge on it. ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix 
    > > rendition, in
    > > particular]) And, we musn't forget his social activism which 
    > > sometimes
    > > seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
    > >
    > > But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch. Maybe I 
    > > missed it,
    > > but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
    > > Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack 
    > > or at
    > > the Pentagon. The Patriots who today march off to face the 
    > > IzzyGhouls in
    > > Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a 
    > > promethean bard
    > > guru to guide them. Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from 
    > > the
    > > electric flyover country music side.
    > >
    > > And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
    > > unique vision? I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't 
    > > exactly
    > > chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.
    > > Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who 
    > > faced with
    > > an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void. 
    > > ("There but
    > > for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff 
    > > The Majik
    > > Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints), 
    > > haven't
    > > released any new songs about the advent of the promise of 
    > > Makmadinijad to
    > > lay waste to America. I really thought that Dylan would come 
    > > through for
    > > the Firemen and Police of NYC. But, so far, nothing. He's still 
    > > touring
    > > remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos. When I run into him 
    > > for the
    > > last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
    > > at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last 
    > > metamorphosis. I
    > > pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out 
    > > there he
    > > isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
    > >
    > >
    > > "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
    > > "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
    > >
    > > Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
    > > None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
    > >
    > > "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
    > > "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
    > >
    > > But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
    > > So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
    > >
    > > All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
    > > While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
    > >
    > > Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
    > > Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
    > >
    > > ====
    > >
    > > R.D.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > _______________________________________________
    > > New-Poetry mailing list
    > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > ========================================
    > David Graham
    > grahamd at ripon.edu
    > Home Page:
    > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
    > Poetry Library:
    > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
    > ==========================================
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 




    ----------------------------------------------
    This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 11:53:43 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:53:43 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <4305.1169045848@opus40.org>
References: <4305.1169045848@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <9A04ABC0-037B-4093-8ECD-DD9F1771F403@earthlink.net>


that's what they all say, and I'm willing to grant that,
but like alot of bob's best political songs, it's also about himself....

Chris

On Jan 17, 2007, at 6:57 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote:

> "Neighborhood Bully" would be a Dylan song on an international topic.
>
>
>
>
> Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
> His enemies say he's on their land.
> They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
> He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
> He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
> He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
> He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
> He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
> Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
> He's always on trial for just being born.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
> Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
> Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
> The bombs were meant for him.
> He was supposed to feel bad.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
> That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
> 'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
> And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> He got no allies to really speak of.
> What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
> He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
> But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
> They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
> Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
> To hurt one they would weep.
> They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
> Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
> He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
> In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
> No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
> He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
> Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> What's anybody indebted to him for?
> Nothin', they say.
> He just likes to cause war.
> Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
> They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
> He's the neighborhood bully.
>
> What has he done to wear so many scars?
> Does he change the course of rivers?
> Does he pollute the moon and stars?
> Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
> Running out the clock, time standing still,
> Neighborhood bully.
>
>
>
> But in general, I'd say that war has inspired many songs on  
> international themes, from "Hans Beimler, Our Commissar" to "Sink  
> the Bismarck."
>
>
>
> On Wed Jan 17 3:41 , m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk sent:
>
> OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with  
> something like
> Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose  
> that's
> what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now.
>
> My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is  
> bedded in his
> folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry  
> ballads. It
> can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer  
> has the
> authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm  
> trying to say is
> that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or  
> national
> issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in  
> this case
> is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of  
> every kind
> are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is  
> blatantly not
> up to such challenges.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:
>
> > Gee, did you miss the memo on this? Dylan disavowed his role as pop-
> > culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963. In fact, he's been highly
> > consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap
> > scorn on those who hold him up as role model. He's a "song-and-dance
> > man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political
> > commentator.
> >
> > His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the
> > media who want him to be a social prophet. Also see his 60 Minutes
> > interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.
> >
> > You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of
> > failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40
> > years.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
> >
> > > I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour. This was  
> long,
> > > LONG ago. Met him in an airport. He looked as if he had just
> > > stepped off
> > > that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same  
> girlfriend to
> > > his
> > > right. Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
> > >
> > > Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of  
> which
> > > Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean." I'll dig out the
> > > quote, don't
> > > have it here.
> > >
> > > For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret
> > > messages
> > > in his lyrics. Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story
> > > and get
> > > an edge on it. ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix
> > > rendition, in
> > > particular]) And, we musn't forget his social activism which
> > > sometimes
> > > seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
> > >
> > > But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch. Maybe I
> > > missed it,
> > > but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at  
> the World
> > > Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter  
> attack
> > > or at
> > > the Pentagon. The Patriots who today march off to face the
> > > IzzyGhouls in
> > > Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a
> > > promethean bard
> > > guru to guide them. Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from
> > > the
> > > electric flyover country music side.
> > >
> > > And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and  
> provided his
> > > unique vision? I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't
> > > exactly
> > > chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant  
> hit song.
> > > Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who
> > > faced with
> > > an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.
> > > ("There but
> > > for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff
> > > The Majik
> > > Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),
> > > haven't
> > > released any new songs about the advent of the promise of
> > > Makmadinijad to
> > > lay waste to America. I really thought that Dylan would come
> > > through for
> > > the Firemen and Police of NYC. But, so far, nothing. He's still
> > > touring
> > > remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos. When I run into him
> > > for the
> > > last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
> > > at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last
> > > metamorphosis. I
> > > pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out
> > > there he
> > > isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
> > >
> > >
> > > "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> > > "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
> > >
> > > Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
> > > None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
> > >
> > > "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
> > > "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
> > >
> > > But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
> > > So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
> > >
> > > All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
> > > While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
> > >
> > > Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
> > > Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
> > >
> > > ====
> > >
> > > R.D.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New-Poetry mailing list
> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================================
> > David Graham
> > grahamd at ripon.edu
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> > Poetry Library:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> > ==========================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 12:38:53 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:38:53 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <1169023279.45ade12fca73e@webmail.ukonline.net>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<7593A4F1-DD8E-48C0-9C68-AC2FC213B66B@ripon.edu>
	<1169023279.45ade12fca73e@webmail.ukonline.net>
Message-ID: <63C2D04C-14B5-492C-B7E1-C0729814433E@earthlink.net>

was reading a greil marcus passage about the first time he heard  
dylan perform in 1963,
and how a particular early song of dylan was able to challenge his  
younger audience
and then I got thinking of the lennon, "beatles are bigger than  
jesus" thing,
and then i got thinking about today, and how dylan is invoked by so  
many young musicians
and cultural arbiters and such, but with the cavil that "well, you  
could write that way back then,
but you can't write that way now....that, as a culture, allegedly,  
we're beyond 'finger pointing songs'
(coz bob, in historical narrative, did it early, saw the limits, and  
led us out of that high 'n' mighty trap...etc)
as a kind of censorship, or at the very least self-censorship.....

and then went back to that 1963 moment as greil marcus likes to paint  
it with a broad generational brush
and see the then-teenage baby boomers who genuinely DID believe the  
American myth of God being on our side
which, though it persists today, is still not as prevalent. Not that  
the idea that a pop-culture icon has entirely
replaced the church--it certainly has it--, but for many of the  
younger people today I meet (especially after seeing such
mythologizations as NO DIRECTION HOME---or RAY or WALK THE LINE),  
something like this seems apt
and not just a Mad Magazine or Weird Al kinda thingy....well, here it  
is for what it's worth

without the music, it may seem more flippant--but hopefully the love  
comes through....



With Bob On Our Side

Oh my name might mean Jesus
Though I failed that test
They fed me a bottle
Instead of a breast
My parents would yell
And fight as I?d hide
In my room wearing headphones
With Bob on my side

Oh the magazines tell it
They tell it so good
The folkies were purists
Who misunderstood
The folkies were out of
Touch with the tides
And you don?t need no folk scene
With Bob on your side

There?s a few books devoted
To why his bike crashed
By the self-proclaimed experts
Who searched through his trash
And what he was doin?
The day Woody died
And you better read each one
When Bob?s on your side

Oh when he went country
Still more felt betrayed
And when he went Christian
The atheists prayed
You saw through each costume
The truth it can?t hide
But you don?t need to act much
When Bob?s on your side

But now we got Ipods,
You can choose your own taste
But the shows that you go to
Don?t even make Paste
And Magnet and Pitchfork
Their tastes coincide
But you don?t need payola
When Bob?s on your side

In many a dark hour,
I?ve felt so ashamed
That the world Jesus fought
Loves to shout out his name
But I can not speak for you
You?ll have to decide
Whether Jake Dylan?s father
Had Bob on his side

So now I?m a turning
My stereo off
The beauty it fed me
Sends men to the Gulf
A wave still can drown
The world with its roar
And if Bob?s on your side
He?ll fight your next war

On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:41 AM, m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk wrote:

> OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with  
> something like
> Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose  
> that's
> what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now.
>
> My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is  
> bedded in his
> folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry  
> ballads. It
> can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer  
> has the
> authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm  
> trying to say is
> that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or  
> national
> issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in  
> this case
> is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of  
> every kind
> are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is  
> blatantly not
> up to such challenges.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:
>
>> Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop-
>> culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly
>> consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap
>> scorn on those who hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance
>> man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political
>> commentator.
>>
>> His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the
>> media who want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes
>> interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.
>>
>> You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of
>> failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
>>
>>> I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was  
>>> long,
>>> LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just
>>> stepped off
>>> that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to
>>> his
>>> right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
>>>
>>> Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of  
>>> which
>>> Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the
>>> quote, don't
>>> have it here.
>>>
>>> For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret
>>> messages
>>> in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story
>>> and get
>>> an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix
>>> rendition, in
>>> particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which
>>> sometimes
>>> seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
>>>
>>> But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I
>>> missed it,
>>> but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the  
>>> World
>>> Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack
>>> or at
>>> the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the
>>> IzzyGhouls in
>>> Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a
>>> promethean bard
>>> guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from
>>> the
>>> electric flyover country music side.
>>>
>>> And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and  
>>> provided his
>>> unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't
>>> exactly
>>> chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit  
>>> song.
>>> Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who
>>> faced with
>>> an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.
>>> ("There but
>>> for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff
>>> The Majik
>>> Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),
>>> haven't
>>> released any new songs about the advent of the promise of
>>> Makmadinijad to
>>> lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come
>>> through for
>>> the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still
>>> touring
>>> remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him
>>> for the
>>> last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
>>> at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last
>>> metamorphosis.  I
>>> pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out
>>> there he
>>> isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
>>>
>>>
>>> "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
>>> "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
>>>
>>> Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
>>> None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
>>>
>>> "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
>>> "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
>>>
>>> But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
>>> So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
>>>
>>> All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
>>> While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
>>>
>>> Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
>>> Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
>>>
>>> ====
>>>
>>> R.D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================================
>> David Graham
>> grahamd at ripon.edu
>> Home Page:
>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>> Poetry Library:
>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>> ==========================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From elemenope at icubed.com  Wed Jan 17 13:29:27 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:29:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] 6. Re: Bob Dylan (David Graham)
In-Reply-To: <200701170414.l0H4E2t6025627@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701170414.l0H4E2t6025627@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <6534.71.253.35.66.1169058567.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Look't:

>In this context, I might suggest that Dylan's "secret meanings" be
>measured against the statement he offered at conclusion of his
>performance at 1985's Live Aid Concert: "It would be nice if some of
>this money went to the American farmers."



Gee, I don't believe him.  He wrote a big song for such concerts,
"Children," and
was its lead singer.  Dylan is self-contradictory.   A brilliant man, of
course.
WSB mentioned upon meeting him early that Dylan mentioned that he fully
expected
to make quite a lot of money in the business.  That's okay by me but
contradicts
the ostensible image he cultivated, the "Woody Guthrie" image.  "All I am
is a song
writer, not a real poet like Wallace Stevens," was just another pose,
another fake out.
On one album, Dylan becomes a Woody Guthrie, on another, a Nashville
hillbilly, and, then, on another, a reborn Christian/Jewish preacher type,
and on another an existential hipster
drifter.  He is a Gemini, and, a man of many masks.  No, I don't trust his
"real"
face to come out by way of a CBS interview.  I don't trust CBS, either,
for that matter.
There is no "real" Bob Zimmerman Dylan.  There is only a Morphing Artist.

I compare him to Cindy Sherman.

Anyway, the point of my post was to ridicule my generation's "Promethean"
endeavor.  It wasn't Promethean, it was Puer and Puella Aeternean.

Ginzy used to listen to Dylan recordings on a handheld tape recorder in
the midst
of house parties.  Listening, I believe, for secret messages in the trick
lyrics.

"Watchtower" didn't intend to prophesize the WTC attack.  But, I can make
it mean anything I want, and for me it has within it embedded a foreseeing
of dire trouble to come.

Due to his capacity to assume identities, he knows he can't be a
consistent spokesman for any cause.  But, he can be taken over.  And that
is why there is truth in your last sentence:

> You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of
> failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40
> years

This remark recognizes that Dylan is a master of pretending to be
something.  Tomorrow morning he could awaken and find himself making a
song about the Firemen at the World Trade Center.
I think he found that he was writing cliches and this led to some serious
misjudgments, in particular, when he went wacko about the boxer.


R.D.




 6. Re: Bob Dylan (David Graham)
> Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop-
> culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly
> consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap
> scorn on those who hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance
> man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political
> commentator.
>
> His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the
> media who want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes
> interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.
>
> You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of
> failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40
> years.




From tad at opus40.org  Wed Jan 17 13:42:54 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:42:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu><33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com><7593A4F1-DD8E-48C0-9C68-AC2FC213B66B@ripon.edu><1169023279.45ade12fca73e@webmail.ukonline.net>
	<63C2D04C-14B5-492C-B7E1-C0729814433E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <002401c73a67$4d04ef40$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

All right, Chris!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Stroffolino 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan


  was reading a greil marcus passage about the first time he heard dylan perform in 1963,
  and how a particular early song of dylan was able to challenge his younger audience
  and then I got thinking of the lennon, "beatles are bigger than jesus" thing, 
  and then i got thinking about today, and how dylan is invoked by so many young musicians
  and cultural arbiters and such, but with the cavil that "well, you could write that way back then,
  but you can't write that way now....that, as a culture, allegedly, we're beyond 'finger pointing songs'
  (coz bob, in historical narrative, did it early, saw the limits, and led us out of that high 'n' mighty trap...etc)
  as a kind of censorship, or at the very least self-censorship.....


  and then went back to that 1963 moment as greil marcus likes to paint it with a broad generational brush
  and see the then-teenage baby boomers who genuinely DID believe the American myth of God being on our side
  which, though it persists today, is still not as prevalent. Not that the idea that a pop-culture icon has entirely
  replaced the church--it certainly has it--, but for many of the younger people today I meet (especially after seeing such
  mythologizations as NO DIRECTION HOME---or RAY or WALK THE LINE), something like this seems apt
  and not just a Mad Magazine or Weird Al kinda thingy....well, here it is for what it's worth


  without the music, it may seem more flippant--but hopefully the love comes through....
                          
     


  With Bob On Our Side

  Oh my name might mean Jesus
  Though I failed that test
  They fed me a bottle
  Instead of a breast
  My parents would yell 
  And fight as I?d hide
  In my room wearing headphones
  With Bob on my side

  Oh the magazines tell it
  They tell it so good
  The folkies were purists
  Who misunderstood
  The folkies were out of
  Touch with the tides
  And you don?t need no folk scene
  With Bob on your side

  There?s a few books devoted
  To why his bike crashed
  By the self-proclaimed experts
  Who searched through his trash
  And what he was doin? 
  The day Woody died
  And you better read each one
  When Bob?s on your side

  Oh when he went country
  Still more felt betrayed
  And when he went Christian
  The atheists prayed
  You saw through each costume
  The truth it can?t hide
  But you don?t need to act much
  When Bob?s on your side

  But now we got Ipods,
  You can choose your own taste
  But the shows that you go to
  Don?t even make Paste
  And Magnet and Pitchfork 
  Their tastes coincide
  But you don?t need payola
  When Bob?s on your side

  In many a dark hour, 
  I?ve felt so ashamed
  That the world Jesus fought
  Loves to shout out his name
  But I can not speak for you
  You?ll have to decide
  Whether Jake Dylan?s father
  Had Bob on his side

  So now I?m a turning
  My stereo off
  The beauty it fed me
  Sends men to the Gulf
  A wave still can drown 
  The world with its roar
  And if Bob?s on your side
  He?ll fight your next war


  On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:41 AM, m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk wrote:


    OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with something like 
    Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose that's 
    what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now. 


    My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is bedded in his 
    folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry ballads. It 
    can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer has the 
    authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm trying to say is 
    that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or national 
    issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in this case 
    is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of every kind 
    are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is blatantly not 
    up to such challenges. 


















    Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:


      Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop- 
      culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly  
      consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap  
      scorn on those who hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance  
      man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political  
      commentator.


      His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the  
      media who want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes  
      interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.


      You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of  
      failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40  
      years.






      On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:


        I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,
        LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just  
        stepped off
        that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to  
        his
        right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.


        Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
        Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the  
        quote, don't
        have it here.


        For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret  
        messages
        in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story  
        and get
        an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix  
        rendition, in
        particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which  
        sometimes
        seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.


        But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I  
        missed it,
        but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
        Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack  
        or at
        the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the  
        IzzyGhouls in
        Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a  
        promethean bard
        guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from  
        the
        electric flyover country music side.


        And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
        unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't  
        exactly
        chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.
        Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who  
        faced with
        an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.  
        ("There but
        for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff  
        The Majik
        Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),  
        haven't
        released any new songs about the advent of the promise of  
        Makmadinijad to
        lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come  
        through for
        the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still  
        touring
        remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him  
        for the
        last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
        at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last  
        metamorphosis.  I
        pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out  
        there he
        isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.




        "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
        "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.


        Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
        None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."


        "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
        "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.


        But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
        So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."


        All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
        While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.


        Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
        Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.


        ====


        R.D.










        _______________________________________________
        New-Poetry mailing list
        New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
        http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






      ========================================
      David Graham
      grahamd at ripon.edu
      Home Page:
      http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
      Poetry Library:
      http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
      ==========================================
















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From skip at louisiana.edu  Wed Jan 17 14:29:26 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:29:26 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <63C2D04C-14B5-492C-B7E1-C0729814433E@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000801c73a6d$d3162a80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

I wish that for just one time

You could stand inside my shoes

And just for that one moment

I could be you

 

Yes, I wish that for just one time

You could stand inside my shoes

You'd know what a drag it is 

to see you.

 

>From "Positively 4th Street," copyright Bob Dylan

 

When I heard this as a young man, I was bitten (yet I really didn't know it
yet). The way these two quatrains seem to meander for six lines and then in
two deliver a devastating yet simply-stated blow was shockingly beautiful.
And almost all in monosyllables.

 

And on the other side was song my friends liked: "Everyone Must Get Stoned",
which I remember as boring even then, though it may have been due to my
hearing it so often from the inebriated mouths of adolescents (even my own).
Yet "Positively 4th Street" is solid even now, over 40 years later.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:39 AM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan

 

was reading a greil marcus passage about the first time he heard dylan
perform in 1963,

and how a particular early song of dylan was able to challenge his younger
audience

and then I got thinking of the lennon, "beatles are bigger than jesus"
thing, 

and then i got thinking about today, and how dylan is invoked by so many
young musicians

and cultural arbiters and such, but with the cavil that "well, you could
write that way back then,

but you can't write that way now....that, as a culture, allegedly, we're
beyond 'finger pointing songs'

(coz bob, in historical narrative, did it early, saw the limits, and led us
out of that high 'n' mighty trap...etc)

as a kind of censorship, or at the very least self-censorship.....

 

and then went back to that 1963 moment as greil marcus likes to paint it
with a broad generational brush

and see the then-teenage baby boomers who genuinely DID believe the American
myth of God being on our side

which, though it persists today, is still not as prevalent. Not that the
idea that a pop-culture icon has entirely

replaced the church--it certainly has it--, but for many of the younger
people today I meet (especially after seeing such

mythologizations as NO DIRECTION HOME---or RAY or WALK THE LINE), something
like this seems apt

and not just a Mad Magazine or Weird Al kinda thingy....well, here it is for
what it's worth

 

without the music, it may seem more flippant--but hopefully the love comes
through....

                        

   

 

With Bob On Our Side

 

Oh my name might mean Jesus

Though I failed that test

They fed me a bottle

Instead of a breast

My parents would yell 

And fight as I'd hide

In my room wearing headphones

With Bob on my side

 

Oh the magazines tell it

They tell it so good

The folkies were purists

Who misunderstood

The folkies were out of

Touch with the tides

And you don't need no folk scene

With Bob on your side

 

There's a few books devoted

To why his bike crashed

By the self-proclaimed experts

Who searched through his trash

And what he was doin' 

The day Woody died

And you better read each one

When Bob's on your side

 

Oh when he went country

Still more felt betrayed

And when he went Christian

The atheists prayed

You saw through each costume

The truth it can't hide

But you don't need to act much

When Bob's on your side

 

But now we got Ipods,

You can choose your own taste

But the shows that you go to

Don't even make Paste

And Magnet and Pitchfork 

Their tastes coincide

But you don't need payola

When Bob's on your side

 

In many a dark hour, 

I've felt so ashamed

That the world Jesus fought

Loves to shout out his name

But I can not speak for you

You'll have to decide

Whether Jake Dylan's father

Had Bob on his side

 

So now I'm a turning

My stereo off

The beauty it fed me

Sends men to the Gulf

A wave still can drown 

The world with its roar

And if Bob's on your side

He'll fight your next war

 

On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:41 AM, m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk wrote:





OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with something like 

Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose that's 

what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now. 

 

My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is bedded in his


folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry ballads. It 

can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer has the 

authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm trying to say
is 

that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or national 

issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in this
case 

is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of every
kind 

are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is blatantly
not 

up to such challenges. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:

 

Gee, did you miss the memo on this?  Dylan disavowed his role as pop- 

culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963.  In fact, he's been highly  

consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap  

scorn on those who hold him up as role model.  He's a "song-and-dance  

man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political  

commentator.

 

His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the  

media who want him to be a social prophet.  Also see his 60 Minutes  

interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.

 

You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of  

failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40  

years.

 

 

 

On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:

 

I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,

LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just  

stepped off

that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to  

his

right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.

 

Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which

Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the  

quote, don't

have it here.

 

For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret  

messages

in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story  

and get

an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix  

rendition, in

particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which  

sometimes

seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.

 

But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I  

missed it,

but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World

Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack  

or at

the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the  

IzzyGhouls in

Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a  

promethean bard

guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from  

the

electric flyover country music side.

 

And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his

unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't  

exactly

chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.

Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who  

faced with

an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.  

("There but

for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff  

The Majik

Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),  

haven't

released any new songs about the advent of the promise of  

Makmadinijad to

lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come  

through for

the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still  

touring

remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him  

for the

last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him

at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last  

metamorphosis.  I

pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out  

there he

isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.

 

 

"there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,

"there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.

 

Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,

None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

 

"no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,

"there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.

 

But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,

So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

 

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view

While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

 

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,

Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

 

====

 

R.D.

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________

New-Poetry mailing list

New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

 

 

========================================

David Graham

grahamd at ripon.edu

Home Page:

http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html

Poetry Library:

http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

==========================================

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------

This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net

_______________________________________________

New-Poetry mailing list

New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

 

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan 17 16:36:17 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:36:17 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Bill Allegrezza on the buffalo
Message-ID: <032b01c73a7f$85de1450$3baf3452@ANNY>

I'm putting together a special session for the Chicago MLA next year.  The
session will explore experimental writing in the Midwest from a critical
standpoint as it has emerged in the past twenty-five years.  As many of you
on this list could speak to this topic, I invite anyone who is interested to
send me an abstract of 250 words concerning your proposed topic.  I don't
have anything specific in mind, so I'm interested in seeing what people will
come up with from any "experimental" genre.  Please submit abstracts to
wallegre at iun.edu or backchannel.



Bill Allegrezza



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan 17 16:44:21 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:44:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <cd5.5fbe6c7.32dff2b5@aol.com>

 
A fanciful animating of an inanimate object...
 
Fork 

This strange thing must have crept 
Right out of hell.  
It resembles a bird?s foot 
Worn around the cannibal?s neck. 

As you hold it in your hand, 
As you stab with it into a piece of  meat, 
It is possible to imagine the rest of the bird: 
Its head which  like your fist 
Is large, bald, beakless, and blind.
 
--Charles Simic, ?Fork? from Charles Simic: Selected Early Poems. Copyright  
? 1999 by Charles Simic. Reprinted with the permission of George Braziller,  
Inc.
 
Source: Charles Simic: Selected Early Poems (George Braziller, Inc., 1999). 

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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Jan 17 16:53:10 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:53:10 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <ccd.8775a26.32dff4c6@aol.com>

 
I  can't understand why I like this poem, but I do.... 
Styrofoam Cup 
thou  still unravished     thou 
thou,        thou  bride 
thou  unstill, 
thou  unravished          unbride 
unthou  unbride 
--Brenda Hillman
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 11:00:33 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:00:33 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Open Books: A Poetry Book Emporium
Message-ID: <ccd.8838ec4.32e0f3a1@aol.com>

 


_http://www.openpoetrybooks.com/index.html_ 
(http://www.openpoetrybooks.com/index.html) 
 
Open Books: A Poem Emporium is a bookstore in  Seattle, WA devoted to poetry 
and poetry-related titles. Our inventory, now at  over 6,000 titles and 
growing, includes new, used, and out-of-print books from  a wide variety of 
publishers. We also carry a selection of poetry audio tapes,  compact discs, and video 
tapes. We strive to keep our shelves eclectic and  welcome suggestions for 
additions to the stock. 
 



 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 12:10:05 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:10:05 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <cd9.884cd80.32e103ed@aol.com>

No one else seems to be playing 'ephemeral anthology'...but
here's another classic of inanimate object category...
 
Pebble 
 

The pebble 
is a perfect creature 
 
equal to itself 
mindful of its limits 
 
filled exactly 
with a pebbly meaning 
 
with a scent that does not remind one of anything 
does not frighten  anything away does not arouse desire 
 
its ardour and coldness 
are just and full of dignity 
 
I feel a heavy remorse 
when I hold it in my hand 
and its noble body  
is permeated by false warmth 
 
- Pebbles cannot be tamed 
to the end they will look at us 
with a  calm and very clear eye 
 
by Zbigniew Herbert 
(Translated by Peter Dale Scott & Czeslaw  Milosz)
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Jan 18 12:59:21 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:59:21 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <cd9.884cd80.32e103ed@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C1D51199.DD2F%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Oh, I'll play!  I'll play!

Ode to the Watermelon
 
     The tree of intense
     summer,
     hard,
     is all blue sky,
     yellow sun,
     fatigue in drops,
     a sword
     above the highways,
     a scorched shoe
     in the cities:
     the brightness and the world
     weigh us down,
     hit us
     in the eyes
     with clouds of dust,
     with sudden golden blows,
     they torture
     our feet
     with tiny thorns,
     with hot stones,
     and the mouth
     suffers
     more than all the toes:
     the throat
     becomes thirsty,
     the teeth,
     the lips, the tongue:
     we want to drink
     waterfalls,
     the dark blue night,
     the South Pole,
     and then
     the coolest of all
     the planets crosses
     the sky,
     the round, magnificent,
     star-filled watermelon.
 
     It's a fruit from the thirst-tree.
     It's the green whale of the summer.
 
     The dry universe
     all at once
     given dark stars
     by this firmament of coolness
     lets the swelling
     fruit
     come down:
     its hemispheres open
     showing a flag
     green, white, red,
     that dissolves into
     wild rivers, sugar,
     delight!
 
     Jewel box of water, phlegmatic
     queen
     of the fruitshops,
     warehouse
     of profundity, moon
     on earth!
     You are pure,
     rubies fall apart
     in your abundance,
     and we
     want
     to bite into you,
     to bury our
     face
     in you, and
     our hair, and
     the soul!
     When we're thirsty
     we glimpse you
     like
     a mine or a mountain
     of fantastic food,
     but
     among our longings and our teeth
     you change
     simply
     into cool light
     that slips in turn into
     spring water
     that touched us once
     singing.
     And that is why
     you don't weigh us down
     in the siesta hour
     that's like an oven,
     you don't weigh us down,
     you just
     go by
     and your heart, some cold ember,
     turned itself into a single
     drop of water.
======================
     Pablo Neruda
     translated from the Spanish
     by Robert Bly
     Neruda & Vallejo: Selected Poems
     Beacon Press
 



On 1/18/07 11:10 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

> No one else seems to be playing 'ephemeral anthology'...but
> here's another classic of inanimate object category...
>  



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Jan 18 13:01:08 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:01:08 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <cd9.884cd80.32e103ed@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C1D51204.DD32%grahamd@ripon.edu>

And has anyone mentioned, or posted, any of Francis Ponge's thing poems?




On 1/18/07 11:10 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

> No one else seems to be playing 'ephemeral anthology'...but
> here's another classic of inanimate object category...
>  
> Pebble 
>  
> 
> The pebble 
> is a perfect creature
>  
> equal to itself 
> mindful of its limits
>  
> filled exactly 
> with a pebbly meaning
>  
> with a scent that does not remind one of anything
> does not frighten anything away does not arouse desire
>  
> its ardour and coldness
> are just and full of dignity
>  
> I feel a heavy remorse
> when I hold it in my hand
> and its noble body
> is permeated by false warmth
>  
> - Pebbles cannot be tamed
> to the end they will look at us
> with a calm and very clear eye
>  
> by Zbigniew Herbert
> (Translated by Peter Dale Scott & Czeslaw Milosz)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Jan 18 13:07:55 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:07:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <C1D51204.DD32%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <C1D5139B.DD36%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Abbie Huston Evans also had a thing for rocks.



Pebbles From Sister Island
 
                                                             Eight miles off
shore,
Worn down to velvet by the thumb and finger
Of the sea incessant-shaping, tight-grained, polished,
Foreign to granite (these are granite's grinders),
Powdered with salt they lie up. The steep beach
Is strange with jasper and outlandish stone
Dim-colored, brown-flecked, olive, chiefly black,
Most like old pagan basalt from the depths
Bared when the moon tore free.
 
The night Columbus talked with Isabella
These rocks were slatting on the coast of Maine.
When Rome fell, and Atlantis, they were here.
They rode the glacier down from Canada,
Maybe, in state; and dropped in the sack of the sea.
To-fro, to-fro, interminably washing,
Hurled and haled back with screeching from the shore,
To-fro, to-fro, they carved the great pink-granite
Platform of the island into hollows
Till it stands up from the glass floor of the sea
Like something out of Dali.
 
On the foot rule of time scaled to the vast they are new,
But their newness is nothing to mine; I tremble before
Their hoary generation. None the less
Let me hold them in my hand a moment, sense
Duration, through delight of touch approve
The buffing of the lapidary sea,
Darkly partake of the being of first rock.
 
 
 ---Abbie Huston Evans. Fact of Crystal, 1961.



On 1/18/07 12:01 PM, "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> And has anyone mentioned, or posted, any of Francis Ponge's thing poems?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/18/07 11:10 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> No one else seems to be playing 'ephemeral anthology'...but
>> here's another classic of inanimate object category...
>>  
>> Pebble 
>>  
>> 
>> The pebble 
>> is a perfect creature
>>  
>> equal to itself 
>> mindful of its limits
>>  
>> filled exactly 
>> with a pebbly meaning
>>  
>> with a scent that does not remind one of anything
>> does not frighten anything away does not arouse desire
>>  
>> its ardour and coldness
>> are just and full of dignity
>>  
>> I feel a heavy remorse
>> when I hold it in my hand
>> and its noble body
>> is permeated by false warmth
>>  
>> - Pebbles cannot be tamed
>> to the end they will look at us
>> with a calm and very clear eye
>>  
>> by Zbigniew Herbert
>> (Translated by Peter Dale Scott & Czeslaw Milosz)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> 
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 13:57:04 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:57:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] inanimate object poem
In-Reply-To: <200701181700.l0IH06t6027784@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20070118185704.17993.qmail@web35513.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm loving these inanimate poem objects people are
posting! Especially that wonderful Styrofoam Cup
piece. Here are a few from Guillevic's _Sphere_ that
I've always liked, for their equivocal and creepiness,
in my impromptu translations:

"Cement"

I made an effort
with cement.

It knows nothing,
isn't bound,
doesn't inhabit,
isn't inhabited.

It is not afraid.

"A Hammer"

Made for my hand,
I hold you tight.
I feel strong
in our strength.

You sleep for a long time,
You know the dark,
You have its strength.

I touch you, size you up,
feel your weight,
I warm you up in my palm.

I climb back into
The iron and wood with you.

You bring me back,
You want to
Have a go,
To strike.

***
Amicalement,
Alex


www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From tad at opus40.org  Thu Jan 18 14:10:20 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:10:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <C1D51199.DD2F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <003d01c73b34$4c69aa80$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects onlyDo poems with vegetation 
count?

Here's Basho:

 This first fallen snow
 is barely enough to bend
the jonquil leaves


----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Graham
To: NewPoetry
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


Oh, I'll play!  I'll play!

Ode to the Watermelon

     The tree of intense
     summer,
     hard,
     is all blue sky,
     yellow sun,
     fatigue in drops,
     a sword
     above the highways,
     a scorched shoe
     in the cities:
     the brightness and the world
     weigh us down,
     hit us
     in the eyes
     with clouds of dust,
     with sudden golden blows,
     they torture
     our feet
     with tiny thorns,
     with hot stones,
     and the mouth
     suffers
     more than all the toes:
     the throat
     becomes thirsty,
     the teeth,
     the lips, the tongue:
     we want to drink
     waterfalls,
     the dark blue night,
     the South Pole,
     and then
     the coolest of all
     the planets crosses
     the sky,
     the round, magnificent,
     star-filled watermelon.

     It's a fruit from the thirst-tree.
     It's the green whale of the summer.

     The dry universe
     all at once
     given dark stars
     by this firmament of coolness
     lets the swelling
     fruit
     come down:
     its hemispheres open
     showing a flag
     green, white, red,
     that dissolves into
     wild rivers, sugar,
     delight!

     Jewel box of water, phlegmatic
     queen
     of the fruitshops,
     warehouse
     of profundity, moon
     on earth!
     You are pure,
     rubies fall apart
     in your abundance,
     and we
     want
     to bite into you,
     to bury our
     face
     in you, and
     our hair, and
     the soul!
     When we're thirsty
     we glimpse you
     like
     a mine or a mountain
     of fantastic food,
     but
     among our longings and our teeth
     you change
     simply
     into cool light
     that slips in turn into
     spring water
     that touched us once
     singing.
     And that is why
     you don't weigh us down
     in the siesta hour
     that's like an oven,
     you don't weigh us down,
     you just
     go by
     and your heart, some cold ember,
     turned itself into a single
     drop of water.
======================
     Pablo Neruda
     translated from the Spanish
     by Robert Bly
     Neruda & Vallejo: Selected Poems
     Beacon Press




On 1/18/07 11:10 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:


No one else seems to be playing 'ephemeral anthology'...but
here's another classic of inanimate object category...





====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================






_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Jan 18 14:17:04 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:17:04 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <cd9.884cd80.32e103ed@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008401c73b35$3d15e8e0$71d93052@ANNY>

a poem
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  No one else seems to be playing 'ephemeral anthology'...but
  here's another classic of inanimate object category...

  Pebble 


  The pebble 
  is a perfect creature 

  equal to itself 
  mindful of its limits 

  filled exactly 
  with a pebbly meaning 

  with a scent that does not remind one of anything 
  does not frighten anything away does not arouse desire 

  its ardour and coldness 
  are just and full of dignity 

  I feel a heavy remorse 
  when I hold it in my hand 
  and its noble body 
  is permeated by false warmth 

  - Pebbles cannot be tamed 
  to the end they will look at us 
  with a calm and very clear eye 

  by Zbigniew Herbert 
  (Translated by Peter Dale Scott & Czeslaw Milosz)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 14:51:26 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:51:26 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <be6.d51b994.32e129be@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/18/2007 2:17:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

a  poem


That's a minimalist ars poetic poem.
Finnegan
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Thu Jan 18 16:50:06 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:50:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Bob Dylan (Chris Stroffolino)
In-Reply-To: <200701171700.l0HH04t6005408@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701171700.l0HH04t6005408@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2234.71.240.126.98.1169157006.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

This song, "Neighborhood Bully," is a brave and ironic defense of the
State of Israel.  The writer could not be a supporter of the UN, for
instance, nor the RadLibs that run the academic scene.  It looks like I
was wrong, in part.  All he has to do is write a paean to Rush Limbaugh
and G. Gordon Liddy (the latter would play this song because he sometimes
broadcasts from that country to Conservatives here in the USA) and he will
have made the next, best metamorphosis.

Indubitably, it is not that Dob Dylan isn't writing important songs of
topical concern, it is that they aren't quoted, played and affirmed by the
RadLib elite at Naropa or St. Marks, where the enemies of the so-called,
"Neighborhood Bully," are supported by the leaders there.  They aren't
going to play this song in BritLand, either.  Of course, if he came out
with one in favor of the Church of England or Tony Blair, they wouldn't
quote it either.  If Ginzy were alive, being a Sandinistan he would be
reading at Boss Hugo's big rallies and since Makmajihadinijad now
conspires anti USA with Hugo and Ortega, there's no way Ginzy and his
chief lieutenants could be tuning into this sort of secret message and be
settled in his innermost heart that he rides with the true and just.

Clearly, Bob Dylan has no deathwish to ride the Majik Carpet, head affixed
to Mecca.

I will forward these lyrics to my friend, G. Gordon Liddy.

Thanks, Chris.


R.D.

>    1. Re: Re: Bob Dylan (Chris Stroffolino)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:53:43 -0800
> From: Chris Stroffolino <cstroffo at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Bob Dylan
> To: opus40-01 at opus40.org, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;
> 	Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <9A04ABC0-037B-4093-8ECD-DD9F1771F403 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> that's what they all say, and I'm willing to grant that,
> but like alot of bob's best political songs, it's also about himself....
>
> Chris
>
> On Jan 17, 2007, at 6:57 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote:
>
>> "Neighborhood Bully" would be a Dylan song on an international topic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
>> His enemies say he's on their land.
>> They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
>> He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
>> He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
>> He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
>> He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
>> He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
>> Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
>> He's always on trial for just being born.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
>> Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
>> Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
>> The bombs were meant for him.
>> He was supposed to feel bad.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
>> That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
>> 'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
>> And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> He got no allies to really speak of.
>> What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
>> He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
>> But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
>> They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
>> Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
>> To hurt one they would weep.
>> They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
>> Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
>> He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
>> In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
>> No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
>> He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
>> Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> What's anybody indebted to him for?
>> Nothin', they say.
>> He just likes to cause war.
>> Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
>> They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
>> He's the neighborhood bully.
>>
>> What has he done to wear so many scars?
>> Does he change the course of rivers?
>> Does he pollute the moon and stars?
>> Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
>> Running out the clock, time standing still,
>> Neighborhood bully.
>>
>>
>>
>> But in general, I'd say that war has inspired many songs on
>> international themes, from "Hans Beimler, Our Commissar" to "Sink
>> the Bismarck."
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed Jan 17 3:41 , m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk sent:
>>
>> OK, Yes I agree. But then 12 years later he comes out with
>> something like
>> Hurricane which is such a great exposure of injustice and I suppose
>> that's
>> what RD is taunting about, the lack of that now.
>>
>> My suggestion is that Dylan's intermittent social criticism is
>> bedded in his
>> folk roots, Guthrie, - maybe in Hurricane's case the John Henry
>> ballads. It
>> can sometimes ignite with ferocious power but only when the singer
>> has the
>> authority of speaking within a rooted social fabric, what I'm
>> trying to say is
>> that the folk-protest idiom is good for talking about a local or
>> national
>> issue but must flounder on its own limitations when the topic as in
>> this case
>> is necessarily international. Stating the obvious, where artists of
>> every kind
>> are struggling with the vastness of the matter, but pop music is
>> blatantly not
>> up to such challenges.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:
>>
>> > Gee, did you miss the memo on this? Dylan disavowed his role as pop-
>> > culture prophet in, let's see, about 1963. In fact, he's been highly
>> > consistent about it all these years, and has done little but heap
>> > scorn on those who hold him up as role model. He's a "song-and-dance
>> > man," not a social activist, generational spokesman, or political
>> > commentator.
>> >
>> > His recent *Chronicles* memoir is pretty scathing on those in the
>> > media who want him to be a social prophet. Also see his 60 Minutes
>> > interview with the late Ed Bradley for more of the same.
>> >
>> > You can like that posture or not, but it's not fair to accuse him of
>> > failing to be something he hasn't pretended to be for well over 40
>> > years.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour. This was
>> long,
>> > > LONG ago. Met him in an airport. He looked as if he had just
>> > > stepped off
>> > > that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same
>> girlfriend to
>> > > his
>> > > right. Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
>> > >
>> > > Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of
>> which
>> > > Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean." I'll dig out the
>> > > quote, don't
>> > > have it here.
>> > >
>> > > For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret
>> > > messages
>> > > in his lyrics. Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story
>> > > and get
>> > > an edge on it. ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix
>> > > rendition, in
>> > > particular]) And, we musn't forget his social activism which
>> > > sometimes
>> > > seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
>> > >
>> > > But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch. Maybe I
>> > > missed it,
>> > > but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at
>> the World
>> > > Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter
>> attack
>> > > or at
>> > > the Pentagon. The Patriots who today march off to face the
>> > > IzzyGhouls in
>> > > Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a
>> > > promethean bard
>> > > guru to guide them. Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from
>> > > the
>> > > electric flyover country music side.
>> > >
>> > > And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and
>> provided his
>> > > unique vision? I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't
>> > > exactly
>> > > chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant
>> hit song.
>> > > Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who
>> > > faced with
>> > > an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.
>> > > ("There but
>> > > for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff
>> > > The Majik
>> > > Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),
>> > > haven't
>> > > released any new songs about the advent of the promise of
>> > > Makmadinijad to
>> > > lay waste to America. I really thought that Dylan would come
>> > > through for
>> > > the Firemen and Police of NYC. But, so far, nothing. He's still
>> > > touring
>> > > remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos. When I run into him
>> > > for the
>> > > last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
>> > > at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last
>> > > metamorphosis. I
>> > > pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out
>> > > there he
>> > > isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
>> > > "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
>> > >
>> > > Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
>> > > None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
>> > >
>> > > "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
>> > > "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
>> > >
>> > > But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
>> > > So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
>> > >
>> > > All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
>> > > While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
>> > >
>> > > Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
>> > > Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
>> > >
>> > > ====
>> > >
>> > > R.D.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > New-Poetry mailing list
>> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ========================================
>> > David Graham
>> > grahamd at ripon.edu
>> > Home Page:
>> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>> > Poetry Library:
>> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>> > ==========================================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
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>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
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>
> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 26
> ******************************************
>




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Jan 18 17:32:57 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:32:57 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] objects
Message-ID: <00eb01c73b50$9a799430$71d93052@ANNY>

When Picasso was asked why he had painted a cacophony of objects into the wagon of his Minotaur Moving His House, he replied: "I put all the things I like into my pictures. The things, so much the worse for them, they just have to put up with it." 

from Joel Weishaus: Scroll 13 of Reality Dreams:

http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/Real/real-13.htm




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 17:49:06 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:49:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] objects
Message-ID: <d19.29efc4f.32e15362@aol.com>

?You can find the entire cosmos lurking in its least remarkable  objects.?
 
--Wislawa Szymborska
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 17:50:21 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:50:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] bard of Dollis Hill
Message-ID: <cb1.8f0df10.32e153ad@aol.com>

_http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1992990,00.html_ 
(http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1992990,00.html) 
 
bard of Dollis Hill

Having the country's biggest poetry publisher take on your debut  collection 
is a dream come true for an unknown poet. But Daljit Nagra's greatest  feat is 
capturing the experience of British-born Indians, says Patrick Barkham 
 
Thursday January 18, 2007
The Guardian 


'Puts Keats to shame" and "A wonder to behold" are not bad verdicts for  the 
first ever review of your debut volume of poetry. And this five-star  critique 
gets better. "If you enjoy poetry, genius, or PURE UNRIVALLED QUALITY  of any 
kind," runs the customer review on Amazon, "buy this 21st-century bible  of 
poetry and bask in the teachings of The Nagrameister." Sadly for Daljit  Nagra, 
the reviewer is one of the sixth-form students at JFS school, where he  works 
in north-west London.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Jan 18 17:54:24 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:54:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <C1D51199.DD2F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<003d01c73b34$4c69aa80$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <008501c73b53$9d0abf00$3efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects onlyDo poems with 
> vegetation count?
>
> Here's Basho:
>
> This first fallen snow
> is barely enough to bend
> the jonquil leaves

Yes, if the vegetation is treated as object rather than growing organism, or 
sunlight-seeker, etc.  My interest is in poems with no entrance for any 
normal human empathy.  I was sure Basho had done some, but couldn't find 
any, so thanks, Mole.  Nice poem.

I've liked the other poems this thread has drawn, but people are in them. 
It's interesting to me how little most poets exclude life from their poems 
although painters, even representational painters, do it although time. 
(Except that--yeah, I know--life is underneath the explicit surface of all 
art.)

--Bob G.

--Bob G.





From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Jan 18 17:57:53 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:57:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <be6.d51b994.32e129be@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00a801c73b54$183a6400$3efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  In a message dated 1/18/2007 2:17:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:
    a poem
  That's a minimalist ars poetic poem.
  Finnegan
  Nah, way too wordy.  It has fully twice the number of words needed.

  --Bob


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From bmarcacci at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 19:27:55 2007
From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:27:55 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <C1D51199.DD2F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <C1D6318B.4077%bmarcacci@gmail.com>

yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
clubbed over the melon sometimes...


plum
 
in our palm
dark purple
so like
the hidden
part of you
its taut skin
faintly flecked
with small
whitish or
off-white
speckles
 
where a stem
was once now
only a hole
or some kind
of black eye
 
we bought
a bagful
 
later on too
much later
we bite
into one
the veiny
flesh deeply
red and so
juicy we
even suck
the seed


first appeared in Ocho 8...

-- 
Bob Marcacci

No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
 - Samuel Johnson




From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 10:01:50 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:01:50 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob Dylan
In-Reply-To: <2BF2EF75-A2E7-44EE-B190-B6C2724DB01E@muohio.edu>
References: <200701170016.l0H0Gmt6020709@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<33257.71.240.12.186.1169004218.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<2BF2EF75-A2E7-44EE-B190-B6C2724DB01E@muohio.edu>
Message-ID: <fde503480701190701m126c963exfc5c36dee158a2ec@mail.gmail.com>

I agree. Also, I am staggered daily by the contrast between the avowed
piousness of the US Adminstration (and many outside the belt-way) and
the pit of corruption, incompetence and death wrought by Americans
(the Administration, the Armed Services, Firemen etc etc etc) and
their allies in Iraq. I suppose christians should call it "sin" but,
hey, profess your need for forgiveness and hey presto do not goto
jail, collect ?200 and let's head towards Endtime! Bodies? What
bodies? They're just dead Iraqis! W00t! Tony Blair's Government runs
along in a nice parallel.

I used to be of the belief that, OK, we're now in Iraq, let's do the
best job we can. Countless bodies and cock-ups later, I should have
stuck with my first instincts and fought with every sinew against this
needless, idiotic war.

And Zimmerman? He ain't never coming back from retirement.

Roger

On 1/17/07, cheekc <cheekc at muohio.edu> wrote:
> well RD u just see it all so differently
>
> nobody doubts that what happened on 11/9 caused pain and suffering
> (in a gradual train-wreck of pain and suffering in many places
> occurring over decades)
> but the response has been woefully unchristian, utterly lacking in
> any vision for the possibility of any humanity other than on terms
> dictated by a nauseous version of bigotry masquerading as Christianity
>
> i know that you won't agree
>
> but that's how i read it from here in teh mid-west
> this is not a time for sloganeering and Dylan knows that too
>
> ;)
>
> love and love
> cris
>
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 10:23 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:
>
> > I met him during his "Bringing It All Back Home" tour.  This was long,
> > LONG ago.  Met him in an airport.  He looked as if he had just
> > stepped off
> > that album cover with same sidekick to his left, same girlfriend to
> > his
> > right.  Same boots, jeans, curley head and loopy stride.
> >
> > Recently, an astrologer writing about the Sixties generation of which
> > Dylan is a leader called him, "Promethean."  I'll dig out the
> > quote, don't
> > have it here.
> >
> > For a very long while, people, guys mainly, listened for secret
> > messages
> > in his lyrics.  Hints on how to interpret the world's inside story
> > and get
> > an edge on it.  ("All Along The Watch Tower" [the Hendrix
> > rendition, in
> > particular])  And, we musn't forget his social activism which
> > sometimes
> > seemed to hit the mark and at other times went quite wacko.
> >
> > But, he doesn't seemed tuned into the current epoch.  Maybe I
> > missed it,
> > but he hasn't released any deep visions of what went down at the World
> > Trade Center on 9/11 or in the Shanksville United 93 counter attack
> > or at
> > the Pentagon.  The Patriots who today march off to face the
> > IzzyGhouls in
> > Somalia/Iraq/Afghanistan don't seem to have Bob Dylan as a
> > promethean bard
> > guru to guide them.  Darrell Worley's done and doing that work from
> > the
> > electric flyover country music side.
> >
> > And why hasn't Bob Dylan seen into the current crisis and provided his
> > unique vision?  I mean, hey, Armageddon and Anti-Christs aren't
> > exactly
> > chopped liver when it comes to a topic for an ultra relevant hit song.
> > Joan Baez hasn't, either, released any laments about those who
> > faced with
> > an inferno chose to leap from 100 stories into the cold void.
> > ("There but
> > for fortune go you or I") In fact, Peter, Paul and Mary of "Puff
> > The Majik
> > Dragon" fame ( y'know, the song about big fat Bugle Boy joints),
> > haven't
> > released any new songs about the advent of the promise of
> > Makmadinijad to
> > lay waste to America.  I really thought that Dylan would come
> > through for
> > the Firemen and Police of NYC.  But, so far, nothing.  He's still
> > touring
> > remixing the old hits in a variety of tempos.  When I run into him
> > for the
> > last time, I'll ask him if he has it in him
> > at this far date to make one last breakthough, one last
> > metamorphosis.  I
> > pray that when/if he does get some work he deems important out
> > there he
> > isn't singing along with Cindy Sheehan.
> >
> >
> > "there must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> > "there's too much confusion, i can't get no relief.
> >
> > Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
> > None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."
> >
> > "no reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
> > "there are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
> >
> > But you and i, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
> > So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
> >
> > All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
> > While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.
> >
> > Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl,
> > Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.
> >
> > ====
> >
> > R.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"



From skip at louisiana.edu  Fri Jan 19 12:19:34 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:19:34 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <C1D6318B.4077%bmarcacci@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Between Walls

the black wings
of the

hospital where
nothing 

will grow lie
cinders

in which shine
the broken

pieces of a green
bottle

--William Carlos Williams


-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
clubbed over the melon sometimes...


plum
 
in our palm
dark purple
so like
the hidden
part of you
its taut skin
faintly flecked
with small
whitish or
off-white
speckles
 
where a stem
was once now
only a hole
or some kind
of black eye
 
we bought
a bagful
 
later on too
much later
we bite
into one
the veiny
flesh deeply
red and so
juicy we
even suck
the seed


first appeared in Ocho 8...

-- 
Bob Marcacci

No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
 - Samuel Johnson


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 13:03:37 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:03:37 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

The Red Wheelbarrow

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens

--William Carlos Williams


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>
To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


> Between Walls
> 
> the black wings
> of the
> 
> hospital where
> nothing 
> 
> will grow lie
> cinders
> 
> in which shine
> the broken
> 
> pieces of a green
> bottle
> 
> --William Carlos Williams
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
> 
> yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
> clubbed over the melon sometimes...
> 
> 
> plum
> 
> in our palm
> dark purple
> so like
> the hidden
> part of you
> its taut skin
> faintly flecked
> with small
> whitish or
> off-white
> speckles
> 
> where a stem
> was once now
> only a hole
> or some kind
> of black eye
> 
> we bought
> a bagful
> 
> later on too
> much later
> we bite
> into one
> the veiny
> flesh deeply
> red and so
> juicy we
> even suck
> the seed
> 
> 
> first appeared in Ocho 8...
> 
> -- 
> Bob Marcacci
> 
> No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
> in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
> - Samuel Johnson
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Fri Jan 19 14:47:18 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:47:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

There are chickens in that one,
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Sue Grimes 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  The Red Wheelbarrow

  so much depends
  upon

  a red wheel
  barrow

  glazed with rain
  water

  beside the white
  chickens

  --William Carlos Williams


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>
  To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  > Between Walls
  > 
  > the black wings
  > of the
  > 
  > hospital where
  > nothing 
  > 
  > will grow lie
  > cinders
  > 
  > in which shine
  > the broken
  > 
  > pieces of a green
  > bottle
  > 
  > --William Carlos Williams
  > 
  > 
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
  > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
  > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
  > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
  > 
  > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
  > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
  > 
  > 
  > plum
  > 
  > in our palm
  > dark purple
  > so like
  > the hidden
  > part of you
  > its taut skin
  > faintly flecked
  > with small
  > whitish or
  > off-white
  > speckles
  > 
  > where a stem
  > was once now
  > only a hole
  > or some kind
  > of black eye
  > 
  > we bought
  > a bagful
  > 
  > later on too
  > much later
  > we bite
  > into one
  > the veiny
  > flesh deeply
  > red and so
  > juicy we
  > even suck
  > the seed
  > 
  > 
  > first appeared in Ocho 8...
  > 
  > -- 
  > Bob Marcacci
  > 
  > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
  > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
  > - Samuel Johnson
  > 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > New-Poetry mailing list
  > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > New-Poetry mailing list
  > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Fri Jan 19 14:55:30 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:55:30 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <000501c73c03$cbf862d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

What if they're not alive? E.g.,

 

glazed with rain

water

 

beside the dead

chickens

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:47 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

 

There are chickens in that one,

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Linda Sue <mailto:suelin7184 at gmail.com>  Grimes 

To: NewPoetry: <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>  Contemporary Poetry News
&amp; Views 

Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM

Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

 

The Red Wheelbarrow

 

so much depends

upon

 

a red wheel

barrow

 

glazed with rain

water

 

beside the white

chickens

 

--William Carlos Williams

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Skip Fox" < <mailto:skip at louisiana.edu> skip at louisiana.edu>

To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <
<mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>

Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM

Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

 

> Between Walls
> 
> the black wings
> of the
> 
> hospital where
> nothing 
> 
> will grow lie
> cinders
> 
> in which shine
> the broken
> 
> pieces of a green
> bottle
> 
> --William Carlos Williams
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  <mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
> 
> yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
> clubbed over the melon sometimes...
> 
> 
> plum
> 
> in our palm
> dark purple
> so like
> the hidden
> part of you
> its taut skin
> faintly flecked
> with small
> whitish or
> off-white
> speckles
> 
> where a stem
> was once now
> only a hole
> or some kind
> of black eye
> 
> we bought
> a bagful
> 
> later on too
> much later
> we bite
> into one
> the veiny
> flesh deeply
> red and so
> juicy we
> even suck
> the seed
> 
> 
> first appeared in Ocho 8...
> 
> -- 
> Bob Marcacci
> 
> No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
> in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
> - Samuel Johnson
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
>  <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
>  <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


  _____  


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 15:03:11 2007
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:03:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <000501c73c03$cbf862d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<000501c73c03$cbf862d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0701191203s2c57c3f2keda7df766e57ae13@mail.gmail.com>

Skip,

I love your revision.

It's almost as if someone had asked, "What if Thomas Hardy had written 'The
Red Wheelbarrow' in the voice of W.C. Williams?".

Jeff


On 1/19/07, Skip Fox <skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:
>
>  What if they're not alive? E.g.,
>
>
>
> glazed with rain
>
> water
>
>
>
> beside the dead
>
> chickens
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:
> new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *TheOldMole
> *Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 1:47 PM
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
>
>
>
> There are chickens in that one,
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com>
>
> *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
>
>
>
> The Red Wheelbarrow
>
>
>
> so much depends
>
> upon
>
>
>
> a red wheel
>
> barrow
>
>
>
> glazed with rain
>
> water
>
>
>
> beside the white
>
> chickens
>
>
>
> --William Carlos Williams
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>
>
> To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <
> new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
>
> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
>
>
>
> > Between Walls
> >
> > the black wings
> > of the
> >
> > hospital where
> > nothing
> >
> > will grow lie
> > cinders
> >
> > in which shine
> > the broken
> >
> > pieces of a green
> > bottle
> >
> > --William Carlos Williams
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
> > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
> >
> > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to
> be
> > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
> >
> >
> > plum
> >
> > in our palm
> > dark purple
> > so like
> > the hidden
> > part of you
> > its taut skin
> > faintly flecked
> > with small
> > whitish or
> > off-white
> > speckles
> >
> > where a stem
> > was once now
> > only a hole
> > or some kind
> > of black eye
> >
> > we bought
> > a bagful
> >
> > later on too
> > much later
> > we bite
> > into one
> > the veiny
> > flesh deeply
> > red and so
> > juicy we
> > even suck
> > the seed
> >
> >
> > first appeared in Ocho 8...
> >
> > --
> > Bob Marcacci
> >
> > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
> > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
> > - Samuel Johnson
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
"Memory believes before knowing remembers.  Believes longer than recollects,
longer than knowing even wonders."
?William Faulkner, Light in August


http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Jan 19 16:05:12 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:05:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  There are chickens in that one,

  Also, I find a very strong implicit "for human beings" to directly follow "so much depends."  But certain imagism is where we'll find the kind of poem I'm wondering about.  The other Williams poem would qualify, I think.

  --Bob G.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Linda Sue Grimes 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


    The Red Wheelbarrow

    so much depends
    upon

    a red wheel
    barrow

    glazed with rain
    water

    beside the white
    chickens

    --William Carlos Williams


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>
    To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
    Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


    > Between Walls
    > 
    > the black wings
    > of the
    > 
    > hospital where
    > nothing 
    > 
    > will grow lie
    > cinders
    > 
    > in which shine
    > the broken
    > 
    > pieces of a green
    > bottle
    > 
    > --William Carlos Williams
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
    > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
    > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
    > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
    > 
    > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
    > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
    > 
    > 
    > plum
    > 
    > in our palm
    > dark purple
    > so like
    > the hidden
    > part of you
    > its taut skin
    > faintly flecked
    > with small
    > whitish or
    > off-white
    > speckles
    > 
    > where a stem
    > was once now
    > only a hole
    > or some kind
    > of black eye
    > 
    > we bought
    > a bagful
    > 
    > later on too
    > much later
    > we bite
    > into one
    > the veiny
    > flesh deeply
    > red and so
    > juicy we
    > even suck
    > the seed
    > 
    > 
    > first appeared in Ocho 8...
    > 
    > -- 
    > Bob Marcacci
    > 
    > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
    > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
    > - Samuel Johnson
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Jan 19 16:07:26 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:07:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress><000501c73c03$cbf862d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<731bb17a0701191203s2c57c3f2keda7df766e57ae13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006001c73c0d$d45a5640$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Skip,

  I love your revision.

  It's almost as if someone had asked, "What if Thomas Hardy had written 'The Red Wheelbarrow' in the voice of W.C. Williams?".

  Jeff

  Hardy woulda had to change "so much depends," too.  In anwer to Skip: the chickens are a life-form, even dead.

  --Bob 
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:01:13 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:01:13 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <000001c73c0d$c31f7a90$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

hey, you're right...my bad
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOldMole 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  There are chickens in that one,
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Linda Sue Grimes 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


    The Red Wheelbarrow

    so much depends
    upon

    a red wheel
    barrow

    glazed with rain
    water

    beside the white
    chickens

    --William Carlos Williams


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>
    To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
    Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


    > Between Walls
    > 
    > the black wings
    > of the
    > 
    > hospital where
    > nothing 
    > 
    > will grow lie
    > cinders
    > 
    > in which shine
    > the broken
    > 
    > pieces of a green
    > bottle
    > 
    > --William Carlos Williams
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
    > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
    > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
    > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
    > 
    > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
    > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
    > 
    > 
    > plum
    > 
    > in our palm
    > dark purple
    > so like
    > the hidden
    > part of you
    > its taut skin
    > faintly flecked
    > with small
    > whitish or
    > off-white
    > speckles
    > 
    > where a stem
    > was once now
    > only a hole
    > or some kind
    > of black eye
    > 
    > we bought
    > a bagful
    > 
    > later on too
    > much later
    > we bite
    > into one
    > the veiny
    > flesh deeply
    > red and so
    > juicy we
    > even suck
    > the seed
    > 
    > 
    > first appeared in Ocho 8...
    > 
    > -- 
    > Bob Marcacci
    > 
    > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
    > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
    > - Samuel Johnson
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:02:13 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:02:13 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73c03$cbf862d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <000101c73c0d$c4106a40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

but they would "formerly animate"...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Skip Fox 
  To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views' 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:55 PM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  What if they're not alive? E.g.,



  glazed with rain

  water



  beside the dead

  chickens





  -----Original Message-----
  From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:47 PM
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



  There are chickens in that one,

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Linda Sue Grimes 

    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 

    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM

    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



    The Red Wheelbarrow



    so much depends

    upon



    a red wheel

    barrow



    glazed with rain

    water



    beside the white

    chickens



    --William Carlos Williams





    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>

    To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>

    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM

    Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



    > Between Walls
    > 
    > the black wings
    > of the
    > 
    > hospital where
    > nothing 
    > 
    > will grow lie
    > cinders
    > 
    > in which shine
    > the broken
    > 
    > pieces of a green
    > bottle
    > 
    > --William Carlos Williams
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
    > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
    > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
    > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
    > 
    > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
    > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
    > 
    > 
    > plum
    > 
    > in our palm
    > dark purple
    > so like
    > the hidden
    > part of you
    > its taut skin
    > faintly flecked
    > with small
    > whitish or
    > off-white
    > speckles
    > 
    > where a stem
    > was once now
    > only a hole
    > or some kind
    > of black eye
    > 
    > we bought
    > a bagful
    > 
    > later on too
    > much later
    > we bite
    > into one
    > the veiny
    > flesh deeply
    > red and so
    > juicy we
    > even suck
    > the seed
    > 
    > 
    > first appeared in Ocho 8...
    > 
    > -- 
    > Bob Marcacci
    > 
    > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
    > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
    > - Samuel Johnson
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:16:48 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:16:48 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue><003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <000d01c73c0f$21d98cf0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

It seems that "Between Walls" works or do you consider "hospital" to implicit of people?

I haven't really paid close enough attention to this thread, so sorry if I ain't getting it.

--Linda Sue Grimes
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



   
    There are chickens in that one,

    Also, I find a very strong implicit "for human beings" to directly follow "so much depends."  But certain imagism is where we'll find the kind of poem I'm wondering about.  The other Williams poem would qualify, I think.

    --Bob G.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Linda Sue Grimes 
      To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
      Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


      The Red Wheelbarrow

      so much depends
      upon

      a red wheel
      barrow

      glazed with rain
      water

      beside the white
      chickens

      --William Carlos Williams


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>
      To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
      Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
      Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


      > Between Walls
      > 
      > the black wings
      > of the
      > 
      > hospital where
      > nothing 
      > 
      > will grow lie
      > cinders
      > 
      > in which shine
      > the broken
      > 
      > pieces of a green
      > bottle
      > 
      > --William Carlos Williams
      > 
      > 
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
      > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
      > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
      > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
      > 
      > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
      > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
      > 
      > 
      > plum
      > 
      > in our palm
      > dark purple
      > so like
      > the hidden
      > part of you
      > its taut skin
      > faintly flecked
      > with small
      > whitish or
      > off-white
      > speckles
      > 
      > where a stem
      > was once now
      > only a hole
      > or some kind
      > of black eye
      > 
      > we bought
      > a bagful
      > 
      > later on too
      > much later
      > we bite
      > into one
      > the veiny
      > flesh deeply
      > red and so
      > juicy we
      > even suck
      > the seed
      > 
      > 
      > first appeared in Ocho 8...
      > 
      > -- 
      > Bob Marcacci
      > 
      > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
      > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
      > - Samuel Johnson
      > 
      > 
      > _______________________________________________
      > New-Poetry mailing list
      > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
      > 
      > _______________________________________________
      > New-Poetry mailing list
      > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      _______________________________________________
      New-Poetry mailing list
      New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Jan 19 16:28:00 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:28:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue><003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress><005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<000d01c73c0f$21d98cf0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <008301c73c10$b39cf5e0$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  It seems that "Between Walls" works or do you consider "hospital" to implicit of people?

  I haven't really paid close enough attention to this thread, so sorry if I ain't getting it.

  --Linda Sue Grimes

  "Between Walls" is what I'm looking for, yes.  Although now I'm wondering about poems that have nothing at all of the human in them, like hospitals and wheelbarrows!  You're understanding the game I started fine, by the way--my rules were incomplete at first, and probably not all that clear since.  But I have no problem with all the out-of-bounds plays going on.  

  --Bob
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:38:35 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:38:35 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue><003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress><005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000d01c73c0f$21d98cf0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<008301c73c10$b39cf5e0$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <000d01c73c12$2d3319b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Here's one, except the human element is introduced with "happy" and "Careers" and even ideas such as "independent" and "simplicity."  And, of course, the theme of the poem is a comparison of stone and human sensibilities.  But as far as the fitting the call for a poem without any animate object, this one works on that level:

How happy is the little Stone
That rambles in the Road alone,
And doesn't care about Careers
And Exigencies never fears--
Whose Coat of elemental Brown
A passing Universe put on,
And independent as the Sun
Associates or glows alone,
Fulfilling absolute Decree
In causual simplicity--

--Emily Dickinson, #1510 in Johnson



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



   
    It seems that "Between Walls" works or do you consider "hospital" to implicit of people?

    I haven't really paid close enough attention to this thread, so sorry if I ain't getting it.

    --Linda Sue Grimes

    "Between Walls" is what I'm looking for, yes.  Although now I'm wondering about poems that have nothing at all of the human in them, like hospitals and wheelbarrows!  You're understanding the game I started fine, by the way--my rules were incomplete at first, and probably not all that clear since.  But I have no problem with all the out-of-bounds plays going on.  

    --Bob


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 16:47:27 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:47:27 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue><003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress><005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000d01c73c0f$21d98cf0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<008301c73c10$b39cf5e0$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <002301c73c13$69e551b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Here's another Dickinson #1190:

The Sun and Fog contested
The Government of Day --
The Sun took down his Yellow Whip
And drove the Fog away --

--Linda Sue Grimes
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



   
    It seems that "Between Walls" works or do you consider "hospital" to implicit of people?

    I haven't really paid close enough attention to this thread, so sorry if I ain't getting it.

    --Linda Sue Grimes

    "Between Walls" is what I'm looking for, yes.  Although now I'm wondering about poems that have nothing at all of the human in them, like hospitals and wheelbarrows!  You're understanding the game I started fine, by the way--my rules were incomplete at first, and probably not all that clear since.  But I have no problem with all the out-of-bounds plays going on.  

    --Bob


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan 19 17:32:03 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:32:03 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue><003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress><005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000d01c73c0f$21d98cf0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><008301c73c10$b39cf5e0$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<000d01c73c12$2d3319b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <023301c73c19$a48fe090$50e83652@ANNY>

believe it or not, but this is so much Dickinson, I mean, so much _her_
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Sue Grimes 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  Here's one, except the human element is introduced with "happy" and "Careers" and even ideas such as "independent" and "simplicity."  And, of course, the theme of the poem is a comparison of stone and human sensibilities.  But as far as the fitting the call for a poem without any animate object, this one works on that level:

  How happy is the little Stone
  That rambles in the Road alone,
  And doesn't care about Careers
  And Exigencies never fears--
  Whose Coat of elemental Brown
  A passing Universe put on,
  And independent as the Sun
  Associates or glows alone,
  Fulfilling absolute Decree
  In causual simplicity--

  --Emily Dickinson, #1510 in Johnson



    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Bob Grumman 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:28 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



     
      It seems that "Between Walls" works or do you consider "hospital" to implicit of people?

      I haven't really paid close enough attention to this thread, so sorry if I ain't getting it.

      --Linda Sue Grimes

      "Between Walls" is what I'm looking for, yes.  Although now I'm wondering about poems that have nothing at all of the human in them, like hospitals and wheelbarrows!  You're understanding the game I started fine, by the way--my rules were incomplete at first, and probably not all that clear since.  But I have no problem with all the out-of-bounds plays going on.  

      --Bob


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    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



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From tad at opus40.org  Fri Jan 19 16:54:38 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:54:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73c03$cbf862d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <005001c73c14$6adc6670$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Chicken Soup for the Poetic Soul?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Skip Fox 
  To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views' 
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 2:55 PM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  What if they're not alive? E.g.,



  glazed with rain

  water



  beside the dead

  chickens





  -----Original Message-----
  From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole
  Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:47 PM
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



  There are chickens in that one,

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Linda Sue Grimes 

    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 

    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:03 PM

    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



    The Red Wheelbarrow



    so much depends

    upon



    a red wheel

    barrow



    glazed with rain

    water



    beside the white

    chickens



    --William Carlos Williams





    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu>

    To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views'" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>

    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM

    Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



    > Between Walls
    > 
    > the black wings
    > of the
    > 
    > hospital where
    > nothing 
    > 
    > will grow lie
    > cinders
    > 
    > in which shine
    > the broken
    > 
    > pieces of a green
    > bottle
    > 
    > --William Carlos Williams
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
    > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
    > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
    > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
    > 
    > yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
    > clubbed over the melon sometimes...
    > 
    > 
    > plum
    > 
    > in our palm
    > dark purple
    > so like
    > the hidden
    > part of you
    > its taut skin
    > faintly flecked
    > with small
    > whitish or
    > off-white
    > speckles
    > 
    > where a stem
    > was once now
    > only a hole
    > or some kind
    > of black eye
    > 
    > we bought
    > a bagful
    > 
    > later on too
    > much later
    > we bite
    > into one
    > the veiny
    > flesh deeply
    > red and so
    > juicy we
    > even suck
    > the seed
    > 
    > 
    > first appeared in Ocho 8...
    > 
    > -- 
    > Bob Marcacci
    > 
    > No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
    > in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
    > - Samuel Johnson
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > New-Poetry mailing list
    > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 


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    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Jan 19 17:51:38 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:51:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007401c73bf4$25612150$0201a8c0@LindaSue><003201c73c02$a136e900$7101a8c0@OldMoleExpress><005101c73c0d$8471f250$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000d01c73c0f$21d98cf0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><008301c73c10$b39cf5e0$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><000d01c73c12$2d3319b0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<023301c73c19$a48fe090$50e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <00a801c73c1c$64d65f30$bdfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  believe it or not, but this is so much Dickinson, I mean, so much _her_

  Yes--they're personifications, they're about people as inanimate objects, not about inanimate objects.

  --Bob

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Linda Sue Grimes 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
    Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:38 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


    Here's one, except the human element is introduced with "happy" and "Careers" and even ideas such as "independent" and "simplicity."  And, of course, the theme of the poem is a comparison of stone and human sensibilities.  But as far as the fitting the call for a poem without any animate object, this one works on that level:

    How happy is the little Stone
    That rambles in the Road alone,
    And doesn't care about Careers
    And Exigencies never fears--
    Whose Coat of elemental Brown
    A passing Universe put on,
    And independent as the Sun
    Associates or glows alone,
    Fulfilling absolute Decree
    In causual simplicity--

    --Emily Dickinson, #1510 in Johnson



      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Bob Grumman 
      To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
      Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:28 PM
      Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only



       
        It seems that "Between Walls" works or do you consider "hospital" to implicit of people?

        I haven't really paid close enough attention to this thread, so sorry if I ain't getting it.

        --Linda Sue Grimes

        "Between Walls" is what I'm looking for, yes.  Although now I'm wondering about poems that have nothing at all of the human in them, like hospitals and wheelbarrows!  You're understanding the game I started fine, by the way--my rules were incomplete at first, and probably not all that clear since.  But I have no problem with all the out-of-bounds plays going on.  

        --Bob


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      _______________________________________________
      New-Poetry mailing list
      New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



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    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From bmarcacci at gmail.com  Fri Jan 19 19:55:43 2007
From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 08:55:43 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <000501c73bee$03449530$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <C1D7898F.4131%bmarcacci@gmail.com>

gah! i didn't understand exactly... a poem without any animate objects, yes?
it seems that i may not have any...

--  
Bob Marcacci

Take time to come home to yourself everyday.
 - Robin Casarjean
 


> From: Skip Fox <skip at louisiana.edu>
> Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:19:34 -0600
> To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views'"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
> 
> Between Walls
> 
> the black wings
> of the
> 
> hospital where
> nothing 
> 
> will grow lie
> cinders
> 
> in which shine
> the broken
> 
> pieces of a green
> bottle
> 
> --William Carlos Williams
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Marcacci
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:28 PM
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
> 
> yeah, i'll play... didn't realize we were being called out... i have to be
> clubbed over the melon sometimes...
> 
> 
> plum
>  
> in our palm
> dark purple
> so like
> the hidden
> part of you
> its taut skin
> faintly flecked
> with small
> whitish or
> off-white
> speckles
>  
> where a stem
> was once now
> only a hole
> or some kind
> of black eye
>  
> we bought
> a bagful
>  
> later on too
> much later
> we bite
> into one
> the veiny
> flesh deeply
> red and so
> juicy we
> even suck
> the seed
> 
> 
> first appeared in Ocho 8...
> 
> -- 
> Bob Marcacci
> 
> No one is much pleased with a companion who does not increase,
> in some respect, their fondness for themselves.
>  - Samuel Johnson
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From elemenope at icubed.com  Fri Jan 19 23:22:47 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:22:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
In-Reply-To: <200701192041.l0JKfOt6025105@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701192041.l0JKfOt6025105@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <53433.71.240.43.127.1169266967.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Space Weather News for Jan. 13, 2007


Observers around the world are reporting that Comet McNaught is now
visible in
broad daylight. The comet is very close to the sun, so it is tricky to
find. If
you want to try, here's how to do it: Go outside and stand in the shadow of a
building so that the glare of the sun is blocked out.  Make a fist and
hold it
at arm's length.  The comet is about one fist-width east of the sun.

This weekend is a special time for Comet McNaught because it is making its
closest approach to the sun.  Solar heat causes the comet to vaporize
furiously
and brighten to daytime visibility.  McNaught is now the brightest comet
in more
than 40 years, and it may become the brightest in centuries.

Visit http://spaceweather.com for photos and updates.





From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 20 06:42:11 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 05:42:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
References: <200701192041.l0JKfOt6025105@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<53433.71.240.43.127.1169266967.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <001601c73c88$0671ab40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

This message requires a new subject heading...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <elemenope at icubed.com>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:22 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)


> Space Weather News for Jan. 13, 2007
>
>
> Observers around the world are reporting that Comet McNaught is now
> visible in
> broad daylight. The comet is very close to the sun, so it is tricky to
> find. If
> you want to try, here's how to do it: Go outside and stand in the shadow 
> of a
> building so that the glare of the sun is blocked out.  Make a fist and
> hold it
> at arm's length.  The comet is about one fist-width east of the sun.
>
> This weekend is a special time for Comet McNaught because it is making its
> closest approach to the sun.  Solar heat causes the comet to vaporize
> furiously
> and brighten to daytime visibility.  McNaught is now the brightest comet
> in more
> than 40 years, and it may become the brightest in centuries.
>
> Visit http://spaceweather.com for photos and updates.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 



From bmarcacci at gmail.com  Sat Jan 20 08:10:54 2007
From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:10:54 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <53433.71.240.43.127.1169266967.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <C1D835DE.415F%bmarcacci@gmail.com>

this is leading me to a new project... how about this one?

 
the geologic
 
   will be considered important        the formation was
      a subduction zone
awkward in that it would seperate along
                   the west coast
              a sedimentary rock that was eroded
                               probably a surf zone
                   and wave action worked
           on the unconformity
                      the seas were in a regressive state
  regression continues
  

 
first appeared in Melancholia's Tremulous Dreadlocks...

-- 
Bob Marcacci

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 - Oscar Wilde




From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 20 08:31:31 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 07:31:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
In-Reply-To: <001601c73c88$0671ab40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <200701192041.l0JKfOt6025105@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<53433.71.240.43.127.1169266967.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<001601c73c88$0671ab40$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <E362F76C-0485-457E-8E34-21782BE3B7BC@earthlink.net>

This massage requires a new subject beheading.


"The nation without great poets will
  not have great politicians."
		--Saddam Hussein

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org

On Jan 20, 2007, at 5:42 AM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:

> This message requires a new subject heading...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <elemenope at icubed.com>


From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sat Jan 20 12:53:53 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:53:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] CUE Journal Question
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV12980897464F14285F167D9A80@phx.gbl>




Hello all!

I need help with finding a reference page number.

Michael Palmer's poem "A Mistake" appears in the Winter 2006 issue of Cue: A
Journal of Prose Poetry.  I need the page number it appears on and I'm
hoping maybe someone has a copy of that issue and can look it up real quick
for me.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Elaine



(please excuse my cross posting.)




From VanShel400 at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 14:48:34 2007
From: VanShel400 at aol.com (VanShel400 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:48:34 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] CUE Journal Question
Message-ID: <cda.7a96fbc.32e3cc12@aol.com>

 
page 33. Michelle Vanstrom


Hello all!

I need help with finding a reference page  number.

Michael Palmer's poem "A Mistake" appears in the Winter 2006  issue of Cue: A
Journal of Prose Poetry.  I need the page number it  appears on and I'm
hoping maybe someone has a copy of that issue and can  look it up real quick
for me.

Thanks in advance for any  help!
Elaine


 
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From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sat Jan 20 14:55:56 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:55:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] CUE Journal Question
In-Reply-To: <cda.7a96fbc.32e3cc12@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV17C62EA39EEFC1275EA2A5D9A80@phx.gbl>

Thanks so much!


On 1/20/07 2:48 PM, "VanShel400 at aol.com" <VanShel400 at aol.com> wrote:

> page 33. Michelle Vanstrom
>> 
>> Hello all!
>> 
>> I need help with finding a reference page  number.
>> 
>> Michael Palmer's poem "A Mistake" appears in the Winter 2006  issue of Cue: A
>> Journal of Prose Poetry.  I need the page number it  appears on and I'm
>> hoping maybe someone has a copy of that issue and can  look it up real quick
>> for me.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance for any  help!
>> Elaine
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 15:38:14 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:38:14 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <c14.eb744a1.32e3d7b6@aol.com>

 
That's more about seeing a normally unnoticed space than a particular  object,
wouldn't you say?
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 1/19/2007 12:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
skip at louisiana.edu writes:

Between  Walls

the black wings
of the

hospital where
nothing  

will grow lie
cinders

in which shine
the  broken

pieces of a green
bottle

--William Carlos  Williams





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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 15:45:58 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:45:58 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <ca3.780ea94.32e3d986@aol.com>

To Salt
 
Taste of taste
 
you that know without saying
 
you that also began somewhere in the light
as a dust
in the  light
long before anything could have recognized you
traveler through the  dark through the earth through the sea
finding your way in time into sweat  and blood
and into tears that we know as our own
or another?s
 
oh great silent teacher whose scripture we fulfill
you that made us able  to taste you
 
you lead us to the light and the darkness
you teach us the coming and  going of each other
you wake us with joy and pain and terror
one at a time  or all together
as long as we recognize you
 
as long as we know 
the touch of you on our lips
 

--W. S. Merwin, APR, May/June 2004

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From skip at louisiana.edu  Sat Jan 20 16:48:14 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:48:14 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <c14.eb744a1.32e3d7b6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

 

About Williams's "Between Walls" Finnigan wrote: That's more about seeing a
normally unnoticed space than a particular object,

wouldn't you say?

 

 

Yep. Or, at least, that's what seems to be behind it. I was going by the
"about inanimate objects" in an obvious sense because (on the surface at
least) that is so.

 

"No ideas but in things." These things have ideas, sure. And are locally
available/articulate.

 

But how could we ever have a piece without a human context of thought out of
which it came? "One must have a mind of winter," Stevens writes in "The Snow
Man," to be able to apprehend truly the inanimate. Or, I take it, to write
about the inanimate.

 

But you're exactly right, Finnegan. And you might point to another issue.
There are probably poems "about the inanimate" which are not as obviously
referring to the mental processes or belief system of the writer (yet
Williams's piece is only "obvious" in this manner because we know the
insistence of his thinking). Maybe Dickinson's "it sifts from leaden sieves"
(about snow and its processes), but it uses human objects and
anthropomorphises extensively. If I had more time I'd skim through Clark
Coolidge's _Crystal Text_ since it probably has some. 

 

Here's Christian Bok's "Amethyst"  from _Crystallography_ (Coach House
2003):

 

SILICON

....... X

........Y

.OXYGEN

........E

........N

 

(I put the periods in for the spacing; hope it works. They're not in the
original.)

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of JforJames at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:38 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

 

That's more about seeing a normally unnoticed space than a particular
object,

wouldn't you say?

Finnegan

 

In a message dated 1/19/2007 12:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
skip at louisiana.edu writes:

Between Walls

the black wings
of the

hospital where
nothing 

will grow lie
cinders

in which shine
the broken

pieces of a green
bottle

--William Carlos Williams

 

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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 20 17:22:01 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:22:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <ca3.780ea94.32e3d986@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002001c73ce1$68a795f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Nope. There are human tears, sweat, blood and lips
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only


  To Salt

  Taste of taste

  you that know without saying

  you that also began somewhere in the light
  as a dust
  in the light
  long before anything could have recognized you
  traveler through the dark through the earth through the sea
  finding your way in time into sweat and blood
  and into tears that we know as our own
  or another?s

  oh great silent teacher whose scripture we fulfill
  you that made us able to taste you

  you lead us to the light and the darkness
  you teach us the coming and going of each other
  you wake us with joy and pain and terror
  one at a time or all together
  as long as we recognize you

  as long as we know 
  the touch of you on our lips


  --W. S. Merwin, APR, May/June 2004



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Sat Jan 20 17:32:36 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:32:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] 10. Re: Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
 (Linda Sue Grimes)
In-Reply-To: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <17663.17.255.241.130.1169332356.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

HEY, EINSTEIN

All objects are animate.
Stoppt action or sped.
The comet as it whirld
Out the Kuiper Belt

Or frozen as we start
To an awe peering up.

R.D.





From elemenope at icubed.com  Sat Jan 20 17:33:15 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:33:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] 10. Re: Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
 (Linda Sue Grimes)
In-Reply-To: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <19359.17.255.241.130.1169332395.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

HEY, EINSTEIN

All objects are animate.
Stoppt action or sped.
The comet as it whirld
Out the Kuiper Belt

Or frozen as we start
To an awe peering up.

R.D.





From VanShel400 at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 17:40:39 2007
From: VanShel400 at aol.com (VanShel400 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:40:39 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] CUE Journal Question
Message-ID: <c02.ccee805.32e3f467@aol.com>

You're welcome. It's a disturbing poem.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 20 17:50:21 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:50:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

"No ideas but in things." These things have ideas, sure. And are locally available/articulate.

But how could we ever have a piece without a human context of thought out of which it came? "One must have a mind of winter," Stevens writes in "The Snow Man," to be able to apprehend truly the inanimate. Or, I take it, to write about the inanimate.

But you're exactly right, Finnegan. And you might point to another issue. There are probably poems "about the inanimate" which are not as obviously referring to the mental processes or belief system of the writer (yet Williams's piece is only "obvious" in this manner because we know the insistence of his thinking). Maybe Dickinson's "it sifts from leaden sieves" (about snow and its processes), but it uses human objects and anthropomorphises extensively. If I had more time I'd skim through Clark Coolidge's _Crystal Text_ since it probably has some. 

Here's Christian Bok's "Amethyst"  from _Crystallography_ (Coach House 2003):

SILICON
....... X
........Y
.OXYGEN
........E
........N

(I put the periods in for the spacing; hope it works. They're not in the original.)

This is the kind of poem I was looking for--as is "lighght," which I later thought of.  Thanks, Skip.  But you put me in a quandry: are the dots an improvement or not?  I like them.  I feel sure dots can be used to advantage in such poems though I can't think specifically how right off.

--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 20 17:52:20 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:52:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 10. Re: Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
	(Linda Sue Grimes)
References: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<17663.17.255.241.130.1169332356.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <008601c73ce5$a696da70$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> HEY, EINSTEIN
> 
> All objects are animate.
> Stoppt action or sped.
> The comet as it whirld
> Out the Kuiper Belt
> 
> Or frozen as we start
> To an awe peering up.
> 
> R.D.


Okay, okay, make it "capable of self-animation."

--Bob G.



From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 20 17:51:08 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:51:08 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
References: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<17663.17.255.241.130.1169332356.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c73ce5$79f5d5c0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

A few years ago, the White House scheduled a symposium called "Poetry and the American Voice" to which a number of poets were invited to discuss and read the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does anyone know who those poets were who actually received an invitation to this event?  I know that Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure, probably Rita Dove and other former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful, thanks.

Jai Guru,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 20 17:58:08 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:58:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
References: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu><17663.17.255.241.130.1169332356.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
	<000e01c73ce5$79f5d5c0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <007401c73ce6$73d71a90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Marilyn Nelson was one.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Sue Grimes 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:51 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice


  A few years ago, the White House scheduled a symposium called "Poetry and the American Voice" to which a number of poets were invited to discuss and read the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does anyone know who those poets were who actually received an invitation to this event?  I know that Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure, probably Rita Dove and other former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful, thanks.

  Jai Guru,
  Linda Sue
  _______________________________
  Blessings,
  Linda Sue Grimes
  Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
  Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
  Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
  Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
  History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 20 17:59:27 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:59:27 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Bob G.--

What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or element of humanness? 

--Linda Sue

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  "No ideas but in things." These things have ideas, sure. And are locally available/articulate.

  But how could we ever have a piece without a human context of thought out of which it came? "One must have a mind of winter," Stevens writes in "The Snow Man," to be able to apprehend truly the inanimate. Or, I take it, to write about the inanimate.

  But you're exactly right, Finnegan. And you might point to another issue. There are probably poems "about the inanimate" which are not as obviously referring to the mental processes or belief system of the writer (yet Williams's piece is only "obvious" in this manner because we know the insistence of his thinking). Maybe Dickinson's "it sifts from leaden sieves" (about snow and its processes), but it uses human objects and anthropomorphises extensively. If I had more time I'd skim through Clark Coolidge's _Crystal Text_ since it probably has some. 

  Here's Christian Bok's "Amethyst"  from _Crystallography_ (Coach House 2003):

  SILICON
  ....... X
  ........Y
  .OXYGEN
  ........E
  ........N

  (I put the periods in for the spacing; hope it works. They're not in the original.)

  This is the kind of poem I was looking for--as is "lighght," which I later thought of.  Thanks, Skip.  But you put me in a quandry: are the dots an improvement or not?  I like them.  I feel sure dots can be used to advantage in such poems though I can't think specifically how right off.

  --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 18:02:17 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:02:17 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <bdc.9b25750.32e3f979@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/20/2007 4:47:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
skip at louisiana.edu writes:

Here?s Christian  Bok?s ?Amethyst?  from _Crystallography_ (Coach House  
2003): 
SILICON
.......  X
........Y
OXYGEN
........E
........N 



Skip, that's what I'd call a 'conceptual poem'...a rather slight
one at that...playing with the chemical compound of the single
silicon and double oxygen that comprises amethyst.
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 18:10:13 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:

A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry and 
the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss and read 
the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does 
anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to this 
event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure, probably 
Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful,  thanks.

 

Marilyn Nelson was invited...
 


_http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030224/pollitt_ 
(http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030224/pollitt) 
Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a  
silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First Lady's  
eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of poems 
and  scarves? 
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Sat Jan 20 18:19:52 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:19:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Inanimate Animate Poem
Message-ID: <17832.17.255.241.130.1169335192.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

BEE, A Poem For Sale

Perhaps I should buy that deck of cards.
After all, they are there in life
For my use which is to divert me
>From life within life by learning

How to pretend I have the power
To take from you,
And you, all that you have
With a mighty bluff.

RD






From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sat Jan 20 19:58:39 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:58:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] CUE Journal Question
In-Reply-To: <c02.ccee805.32e3f467@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV4183B97393037000F1999D9AF0@phx.gbl>

Yes, it is.  He has a number of those?disturbing poems.  I haven?t read
Palmer?s work in a while but I have this one image that remains with me from
a poem of his?that of butterflies flapping their wings on the eyelids of a
dead girl.  Unfortunately I don?t remember the language he used anymore.




On 1/20/07 5:40 PM, "VanShel400 at aol.com" <VanShel400 at aol.com> wrote:

> You're welcome. It's a disturbing poem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 20 20:04:20 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:04:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>


  Bob G.--

  What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or element of humanness? 

  --Linda Sue

  I am interested in finding poems about things as things, period.  It'd take a long essay to say why.  One is to find out how many poets can be objective, or escape the merely personal, the way painters of still lifes and pure landscapes--and, of course, non-representational paintings--are.  Another is to test my belief that most poetry-lovers are really more interested in the human experience than in poetry.  A main one is that I'm a taxonomaniac.  Hence, I want to pigeonhole poems and poets every way I can.

  Etc.

  --Bob G
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sat Jan 20 20:09:49 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:09:49 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] On "Best of the Net, 2006"
Message-ID: <648208b60701201709p615fd1bdqc15bff9f750980a4@mail.gmail.com>

Happy to see Salt River Review's poets leading the poetry list at

http://www.sundress.net/bestof/

Returned from Mexico last night to find that link above alive, thus a
bit of a tardy notice.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 20 21:33:21 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:33:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry on the ropes once again
Message-ID: <c60.a4dcdea.32e42af1@aol.com>

_http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Messerli%20essay.htm_ 
(http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Messerli%20essay.htm) 
 
Poetry is in trouble again, or is it?
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 21 03:40:05 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:40:05 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <ca3.780ea94.32e3d986@aol.com>
	<002001c73ce1$68a795f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <005101c73d37$c0873310$9cd73152@ANNY>

Oh come on Old Mole!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOldMole 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only


  Nope. There are human tears, sweat, blood and lips
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: JforJames at aol.com 
    To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:45 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only


    To Salt

    Taste of taste

    you that know without saying

    you that also began somewhere in the light
    as a dust
    in the light
    long before anything could have recognized you
    traveler through the dark through the earth through the sea
    finding your way in time into sweat and blood
    and into tears that we know as our own
    or another?s

    oh great silent teacher whose scripture we fulfill
    you that made us able to taste you

    you lead us to the light and the darkness
    you teach us the coming and going of each other
    you wake us with joy and pain and terror
    one at a time or all together
    as long as we recognize you

    as long as we know 
    the touch of you on our lips


    --W. S. Merwin, APR, May/June 2004



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 21 03:48:45 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:48:45 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>

I wouldn't like to contradict you, but how can a painter be confessional if you take away expression from the choice of colors? We do not have a current: confessionalism in painting. But we have choices of colors or styles that characterize a painter. The same Egon Schiele, who -for our delight - did a series of self-portraits, is not praised for his selfishness. There are different values when we go into different fields. As much as with music. 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:04 AM



    Bob G.--

    What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or element of humanness? 

    --Linda Sue

    I am interested in finding poems about things as things, period.  It'd take a long essay to say why.  One is to find out how many poets can be objective, or escape the merely personal, the way painters of still lifes and pure landscapes--and, of course, non-representational paintings--are.  Another is to test my belief that most poetry-lovers are really more interested in the human experience than in poetry.  A main one is that I'm a taxonomaniac.  Hence, I want to pigeonhole poems and poets every way I can.

    Etc.

    --Bob G

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 21 04:04:30 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:04:30 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] From the Buffalo
Message-ID: <00aa01c73d3b$29265010$9cd73152@ANNY>

and from my favorite Editor (well my only One!), William Allegrezza:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Those of you who have listened to me ramble about projects have probably
heard me reference over and over a book on Virgil that Garin Cycholl and I
want to create.  Well, Garin and I are finally going to put this book
together.  We are trying to edit a book of responses, both creative and
critical, to Virgil's The Georgics.  Both of us are open to the type of
response-it can even be very loosely related to Virgil's work, so I invite
all of you to read Virgil and type up a response to it.  Send your responses
to wallegre at iun.edu.



Best,

Bill Allegrezza



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 21 06:29:35 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:29:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
Message-ID: <002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  I wouldn't like to contradict you, but how can a painter be confessional if you take away expression from the choice of colors? 

  Anny, I'm talking about what's explicitly there.  A human being can and will read all kinds of things into any piece of art--or non-art.  But some art is explicitly not about human beings--compare one of Pollock's drip paintings to "Guernica," for instance.

  We do not have a current: confessionalism in painting. But we have choices of colors or styles that characterize a painter. The same Egon Schiele, who -for our delight - did a series of self-portraits, is not praised for his selfishness. There are different values when we go into different fields. As much as with music. 

  Sure, and different values are what I'm interested in.  People-values and inanimate-object values are two of them.  

  --Bob
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 07:05:11 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:05:11 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
Message-ID: <002a01c73d54$6722a760$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Bob G. wrote:
"Another is to test my belief that most poetry-lovers are really more interested in the human experience than in poetry."

My guess is that people in general are more interested in the "human experience" conveyed in every communications medium, whether it's poetry, painting, music, or a news report than they are in the medium. Those more interested in the medium itself are the poets, painters, musicians, and writers themselves. And even then, the purpose of their interest in studying the medium is to help them become more proficient in using that medium to convey the human experience.

I think the results of your research into this issue can be very useful to anyone involved in communications.  I'm glad you brought it to my attention.  Thanks.

Jai Guru,
Linda Sue
_______________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Stone Gulch http://stonegulch.com
Classic Poetry  http://stonegulch.com/classicpoetry.html
Poetry at Suite101.com  http://poetry.suite101.com/
Poetry at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/poetry
History at BellaOnline.com  http://www.bellaonline.com/site/history

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  I wouldn't like to contradict you, but how can a painter be confessional if you take away expression from the choice of colors? We do not have a current: confessionalism in painting. But we have choices of colors or styles that characterize a painter. The same Egon Schiele, who -for our delight - did a series of self-portraits, is not praised for his selfishness. There are different values when we go into different fields. As much as with music. 
    From: Bob Grumman 
    Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:04 AM



      Bob G.--

      What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or element of humanness? 

      --Linda Sue

      I am interested in finding poems about things as things, period.  It'd take a long essay to say why.  One is to find out how many poets can be objective, or escape the merely personal, the way painters of still lifes and pure landscapes--and, of course, non-representational paintings--are.  Another is to test my belief that most poetry-lovers are really more interested in the human experience than in poetry.  A main one is that I'm a taxonomaniac.  Hence, I want to pigeonhole poems and poets every way I can.

      Etc.

      --Bob G




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 07:47:49 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:47:49 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry on the ropes once again
In-Reply-To: <c60.a4dcdea.32e42af1@aol.com>
References: <c60.a4dcdea.32e42af1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480701210447j7856892blca179084f31515ac@mail.gmail.com>

To state the obvious, book-selling has changed. Delivery is different,
and I think both of those quoted, including Astley, ignores this for
other axes to grind.

Roger

On 1/21/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Messerli%20essay.htm
>
> Poetry is in trouble again, or is it?
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 10:07:49 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:07:49 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
	<002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

"Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."

--Anthony Daniels 
"The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/


--Linda Sue
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Jan 21 12:36:08 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:36:08 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <3D1103FE-35BA-43B9-B710-3E69A033D7B0@ripon.edu>

There's a video of Robert Frost talking about being labelled a  
"nature poet" all the time.  Typically, he rejects the label, noting  
that he only wrote two poems in his life that "didn't have people in  
them."

I suppose that excluding all human footprints from a poem is an  
interesting exercise to try, though mostly as fantasy or impossible  
limit or something like that.  A technical exercise that might lead  
to some interesting new paths, perhaps.  But nearly impossible to  
pull off:  if nothing else, the voice of a poem tends to reveal a  
human presence, perspective, and so forth, even if the subject is a  
pebble.  Not to mention that language is itself an utterly human  
construct.

One exercise I do from time to time in my journal is to write a poem  
without verbs.  And to try to disguise that fact as much as  
possible.  A silly enough thing to do, verbs being the battery that  
powers poetry's grammatical engine.  I've gotten a couple pieces that  
I like OK, actually, but for me it's mainly a warm-up exercise, a way  
to flex my prepositional and other muscles.

In any event, I guess that for me the relevant question here would be  
why:  why would one *want* to exclude human presence from a poem.   
Sort of like excluding human breath from a saxophone solo, it would  
appear:  I mean, you can *do* it, sort of, with synthesizers & such,  
but what's the payoff?  I don't mean that there isn't a payoff,  
necessarily, only that that's the question I'd want to pose, early  
and often.


On Jan 20, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:

> Bob G.--
>
> What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects  
> only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as  
> things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human  
> comparison or element of humanness?
>
> --Linda Su



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 12:58:53 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:58:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails
Message-ID: <ce9.7a3a792.32e503dd@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/21/2007 3:40:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

From:  _TheOldMole_ (mailto:tad at opus40.org)   
To: _NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News  &amp;Views_ 
(mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu)  
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:22  PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about  inanimate objects only


Nope. There are human tears, sweat, blood and  lips



I don't seem to be getting Tad's emails to the list.
Has anyone else experienced this?
 
Tad, would you send me something b/c as a test?.
Finnegan
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 21 13:54:36 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:54:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<3D1103FE-35BA-43B9-B710-3E69A033D7B0@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <005a01c73d8d$9a619d00$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I'm not talking about excluding the human presence, just the explicit human presence.  The value is the same as painting a view of a mountainside lake with no human beings or houses, etc., in it.  It can also be a way of emphasizing language as language rather than as something to talk about people with.

--Bob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:36 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  There's a video of Robert Frost talking about being labelled a "nature poet" all the time.  Typically, he rejects the label, noting that he only wrote two poems in his life that "didn't have people in them."  


  I suppose that excluding all human footprints from a poem is an interesting exercise to try, though mostly as fantasy or impossible limit or something like that.  A technical exercise that might lead to some interesting new paths, perhaps.  But nearly impossible to pull off:  if nothing else, the voice of a poem tends to reveal a human presence, perspective, and so forth, even if the subject is a pebble.  Not to mention that language is itself an utterly human construct.


  One exercise I do from time to time in my journal is to write a poem without verbs.  And to try to disguise that fact as much as possible.  A silly enough thing to do, verbs being the battery that powers poetry's grammatical engine.  I've gotten a couple pieces that I like OK, actually, but for me it's mainly a warm-up exercise, a way to flex my prepositional and other muscles.


  In any event, I guess that for me the relevant question here would be why:  why would one *want* to exclude human presence from a poem.  Sort of like excluding human breath from a saxophone solo, it would appear:  I mean, you can *do* it, sort of, with synthesizers & such, but what's the payoff?  I don't mean that there isn't a payoff, necessarily, only that that's the question I'd want to pose, early and often.




  On Jan 20, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:


    Bob G.--

    What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or element of humanness?

    --Linda Su






  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ==========================================








------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 21 13:53:10 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:53:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] MiPO @ STAIN -- This Friday
In-Reply-To: <ce9.7a3a792.32e503dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <944105.56672.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

MiPOesias @ Stain Bar
  Friday, January 26, 2007
  7 P.M.
  Presents
   
              ~~~  DAN HOY   ~~~   PF POTVIN  ~~~  ERICA FABRI  ~~~
   
  ______________
   
  Dan Hoy lives in Brooklyn and is co-editor of SOFT TARGETS. Recent work has appeared or is forthcoming in Absent, Cannibal, H_NGM_N, Effing, Dreams That Money Can Buy, and elsewhere. Videos and movie criticism are available on his website, www.sinlechuga.com.
   
   
  PF POTVIN is the author of The Attention Lesson (No Tell Books). His work has appeared in MiPOesias, Sleepingfish, Boston Review, Black Warrior Review, Sentence, No Tell Motel, and elsewhere. He has taught at various language schools and colleges in the U.S. and Chile. He serves on the staff of Drunken Boat, runs ultramarathons, and currently resides in Miami, FL.
   
   
  Erica Miriam Fabri is a poet and educator. She is a graduate of the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and received her MFA in poetry from the New School. She is the author of High Heel Magazine, winner of the 2006 Belle Letter Press chapbook contest. She has work published or forthcoming in Good Foot Magazine and Got Poetry? An Offline Anthology. She currently teaches creative writing at The School of Visual Arts, Baruch College and Lehman College. www.ericafabri.com 
   
  ______________
   
  Hoy ?  http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/hoy_dan.html   
   
  Potvin ?  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/potvin_pf.htm    
   
  Fabri ? http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/fabri_erica.html    
   
  _______________
   
  STAIN BAR
  766 Grand Street
  Brooklyn, NY 11211
  (L train to Grand Street stop, walk one block west) -- 718/387-7840 -- daily 5 p.m.
   
  Hope to see you there!
   
  _______________
   
  http://www.mipoesias.com    
  http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com    
   
  ________________
   

 
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 21 13:56:33 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:56:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails
References: <ce9.7a3a792.32e503dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008601c73d8d$e0d13ac0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I don't seem to be getting Tad's emails to the list.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Tad, would you send me something b/c as a test?.

Finnegan


I'm getting them.  I do notice from time to time not having gotten a post to New-Poetry someone quotes in a later post.

--Bob G.
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Sun Jan 21 13:59:18 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 12:59:18 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

In answer to an earlier question, the dots in Bok's "Amethyst" were put in
by me in the belief that e-mail would collapse initial spacing.

 

The second and last piece of "Amethyst," by the way, in two lines :

 

sibylline orchid

 

oblivious

 

Many more from this Bok's book (_Crystallography__) probably apply to one
extent or another.

 

But to respond to your desire for classification, I differ. No argument,
just a difference. Stephen Ellis once said to me that the sections in Donald
Allen's great anthology, _New American Poetry_, may well have done more harm
than good when trying to apprehend the poets therein. (I had been praising
the classification . . . it had made things seem clear to me when I had just
begun reading.) But Steve it set me to thinking. Later I ran into Olson's
argument against classification as a very significant way of thinking.
Aristotelian thought. He thought it was somewhat useful as a tool, but that
too many acted as though it was the end of thinking rather than the means
Olson thought it to be. I agree. Or defer. . . . But, no, I agree. And not
just because of my thinking along the line of Ellis and Olson, but because
of my feeling (which is also thought), almost a conviction, that we live in
a contiguous universe in which the multiplicities of experience would be
needlessly constrained for me if I thought classification as a primary
activity. (And imagine all this riding on the frail back of the dialectic .
. . talk about constraints.) 

 

But, Bob, that's just me. Whatever it is, I enjoy the difference. Even when
it appears vast.

 

I'd love to read more on your "pigeonholing."

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:04 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

 

 

Bob G.--

 

What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are
you looking for poems that merely provide things as things
themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or
element of humanness? 

 

--Linda Sue

 

I am interested in finding poems about things as things, period.  It'd take
a long essay to say why.  One is to find out how many poets can be
objective, or escape the merely personal, the way painters of still lifes
and pure landscapes--and, of course, non-representational paintings--are.
Another is to test my belief that most poetry-lovers are really more
interested in the human experience than in poetry.  A main one is that I'm a
taxonomaniac.  Hence, I want to pigeonhole poems and poets every way I can.

 

Etc.

 

--Bob G

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From danweasel at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 15:05:31 2007
From: danweasel at gmail.com (Andrew Nichols)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:05:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <005a01c73d8d$9a619d00$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<3D1103FE-35BA-43B9-B710-3E69A033D7B0@ripon.edu>
	<005a01c73d8d$9a619d00$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BB406D22-695B-4F6F-BD0A-84B3EF61E9AF@gmail.com>

Roman Fountain

Two basins, one mounting above the other
within a round, wide, ancient marble rim,
and from the one above, water softly spilling
down to water, which below stands waiting,

answering its gentle talking with silence
and secretly, as in the hollow of a hand,
showing it sky behind greenness and darkness
like some unfamiliar object; while it

spreads peacefully in its own beautiful bowl
without homesickness, circle after circle,
only sometimes dreamily and drop by drop

letting itself down on the mossy carvings
to the last mirror, which, from below
gazing upward, smiles gently with transitions.

Rainer Maria Rilke, New Poems (1907), trans. by Edward Snow


Some of language alludes to things of the human world, but explicit  
human presence is absent.  It's an interesting category, and as many  
others have mentioned, poems in the this line seem fairly rare.

-Andrew


On Jan 21, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> I'm not talking about excluding the human presence, just the  
> explicit human presence.  The value is the same as painting a view  
> of a mountainside lake with no human beings or houses, etc., in  
> it.  It can also be a way of emphasizing language as language  
> rather than as something to talk about people with.
>
> --Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Graham
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:36 PM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
>
> There's a video of Robert Frost talking about being labelled a  
> "nature poet" all the time.  Typically, he rejects the label,  
> noting that he only wrote two poems in his life that "didn't have  
> people in them."
>
> I suppose that excluding all human footprints from a poem is an  
> interesting exercise to try, though mostly as fantasy or impossible  
> limit or something like that.  A technical exercise that might lead  
> to some   interesting new paths, perhaps.  But nearly impossible to  
> pull off:  if nothing else, the voice of a poem tends to reveal a  
> human presence, perspective, and so forth, even if the subject is a  
> pebble.  Not to mention that language is itself an utterly human  
> construct.
>
> One exercise I do from time to time in my journal is to write a  
> poem without verbs.  And to try to disguise that fact as much as  
> possible.  A silly enough thing to do, verbs being the battery that  
> powers poetry's grammatical engine.  I've gotten a couple pieces  
> that I like OK, actually, but for me it's mainly a warm-up  
> exercise, a way to flex my prepositional and other muscles.
>
> In any event, I guess that for me the relevant question here would  
> be why:  why would one *want* to exclude human presence from a  
> poem.  Sort of like excluding human breath from a saxophone solo,  
> it would appear:  I mean, you can *do* it, sort of, with  
> synthesizers & such, but what's the payoff?  I don't mean that  
> there isn't a payoff, necessarily, only that that's the question  
> I'd want to pose, early and often.
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:
>
>> Bob G.--
>>
>> What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects  
>> only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as  
>> things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human  
>> comparison or element of humanness?
>>
>> --Linda Su
>
>
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 15:20:41 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:20:41 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <cca.7445821.32e52519@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/21/2007 12:06:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
danweasel at gmail.com writes:

spreads peacefully in its own beautiful bowl
without homesickness, circle after circle,
only sometimes dreamily and drop by drop



This poem Roman Fountain is emotionally delicious.  ~Raven
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Sun Jan 21 15:37:05 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:37:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] 9. Interesting quotation (Linda Sue Grimes)
In-Reply-To: <200701211700.l0LH05t6024943@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701211700.l0LH05t6024943@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2616.71.240.126.98.1169411825.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Yes. Everytime I see a student reduxing a Che shirt coming at
me on Brooks Brothers Street, I want to take my cold pincers
and rip it away.  Let her/him have a taste of freedom wind.

Keith Windschuttle's article in this month's "New Criterion" is
very important.  He explains how and why and what viz the RadLibs;
how they are a grave and present danger. It's very useful to have
Australia on our side, and when I say, "our," I do notinclude Sam Hamill.

R.D.








> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:07:49 -0600
> From: "Linda Sue Grimes" <suelin7184 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0 at LindaSue>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
>
> --Anthony Daniels
> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
>
>
> --Linda Sue






From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Jan 21 15:45:55 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:45:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] MadLibs
In-Reply-To: <2616.71.240.126.98.1169411825.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701211700.l0LH05t6024943@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<2616.71.240.126.98.1169411825.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <B31945E3-E348-4FA8-9A25-1F0AD6559AC6@ripon.edu>


This dogged demonizing of "the RadLibs" is impressive in its single- 
minded fervor and persistence, I suppose, but seems frequently a tad  
detached from poetics per se.

In any event, I'm hard pressed to see how any truly "radical" agenda  
has been in force in the US political realm as a whole for, say, the  
past 7 or more Presidentiads.  Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43:   
not exactly a bunch of screaming radicals, I'd venture.  The sole  
Democrat on that list succeeded by pushing hard to the center, much  
to the dismay of the more liberal wing of the party.  And the country  
has not, so far as I can tell, been lurching leftward too  
dramatically.  Sam Hamill would *like* to wield some real power, I'm  
sure, but. . . .

Just an observation. . . .



On Jan 21, 2007, at 2:37 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:

> Yes. Everytime I see a student reduxing a Che shirt coming at
> me on Brooks Brothers Street, I want to take my cold pincers
> and rip it away.  Let her/him have a taste of freedom wind.
>
> Keith Windschuttle's article in this month's "New Criterion" is
> very important.  He explains how and why and what viz the RadLibs;
> how they are a grave and present danger. It's very useful to have
> Australia on our side, and when I say, "our," I do notinclude Sam  
> Hamill.
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>
>

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From elemenope at icubed.com  Sun Jan 21 15:58:49 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:58:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
In-Reply-To: <200701210036.l0L0aat6014420@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701210036.l0L0aat6014420@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3174.71.240.126.98.1169413129.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>


These poets weren't invited to denounce the President, they were invited
to discuss three notable poets.  Her scarf was the least of the typical
puella aeterneal RadLib dissidence that has claimed poetry since "Free
Speech" was taken over by Mario Savio.

The U.S. didn't make bold to make war. The RadLibs make bold to bring
defeat, failure and demoralization to our Patriot Military, which is what
all this dissidence is about.  Until it is understood what such a
commentator understands about all the issues regarding the "war" it is
impossible to have a frank, stable discussion.  For instance, recent
translation of Baath top secret files recovered after my intervention in
Iraq demonstrate ongoing colloboration with all Trrst Orgs and, also,
involvement in the OklaCity Attack, as Jayna Davis reported, and WTC I. 
But people like Marilyn Nelson don't feel like reading what they don't
want to read because it doesn't support their hopes and dreams and biases.

Laura Bush went out of her way for these people and they slapped her in
the face.

Before Hillary Clinton stole the Federalist Furniture, she ordered the
White House Marines to cease and desist with their gauche uniforms and to
serve as wait staff.

You, a male Poet Laureate, if walking Hillary's future White House, will
avert your eyes floorward if Her Highness approaches.

When the Bush Family returned to the White House, everyone who works there
came out to greet them, weeping, saying, "Thank Gawd you have returned. 
You have no idea what we have endured."

The continual, endless, attack on the Republic and traditional American
values, like courtesy, is now a cultural civil war.  What happened at the
White House that day was another skirmish.

The RadLibs may have most of the poets, but they don't have the Marines.
And, until that fateful hour, they can't win.

R.D.



Message: 17
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
From: JforJames at aol.com
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:

A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry and
the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss
and read
the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does
anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to this
event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure,
probably
Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful, 
thanks.



Marilyn Nelson was invited...



Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a
silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First
Lady's
eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of poems
and  scarves?







From elemenope at icubed.com  Sun Jan 21 16:25:51 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 16:25:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (Comet McNaught)
In-Reply-To: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701201700.l0KH06t6007696@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3556.71.240.126.98.1169414751.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

COMET McNAUGHT HAIKU

for Alan Davies


Leaden skies days on end.
I'll try to take a look when the moment offers itself.

R.D.




>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:22:47 -0500 (EST)
> From: elemenope at icubed.com
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems about inanimate objects only (RD)
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <53433.71.240.43.127.1169266967.squirrel at pop3a.icubed.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Space Weather News for Jan. 13, 2007
>
>
> Observers around the world are reporting that Comet McNaught is now
> visible in
> broad daylight. The comet is very close to the sun, so it is tricky to
> find. If
> you want to try, here's how to do it: Go outside and stand in the shadow
> of a
> building so that the glare of the sun is blocked out.  Make a fist and
> hold it
> at arm's length.  The comet is about one fist-width east of the sun.
>
> This weekend is a special time for Comet McNaught because it is making its
> closest approach to the sun.  Solar heat causes the comet to vaporize
> furiously
> and brighten to daytime visibility.  McNaught is now the brightest comet
> in more
> than 40 years, and it may become the brightest in centuries.
>
> Visit http://spaceweather.com for photos and updates.




From cralan at wordsinhere.com  Sun Jan 21 16:46:41 2007
From: cralan at wordsinhere.com (cralan kelder)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:46:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
In-Reply-To: <3174.71.240.126.98.1169413129.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <C1D99DD1.3D24F%cralan@wordsinhere.com>

hello suelin

Here is a perhaps related event,
a letter from Sharon Olds declining an invitation to poetry at the white
house.

http://www.litkicks.com/BeatPages/msg.jsp?what=OldsToBush

although i do not know if this is the event to which you refer.
perhaps this is helpful in your research.


geez, R.D.  you sure sound like you are itchin? for a fight.






On 1/21/07 9:58 PM, "elemenope at icubed.com" <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:

> 
> These poets weren't invited to denounce the President, they were invited
> to discuss three notable poets.  Her scarf was the least of the typical
> puella aeterneal RadLib dissidence that has claimed poetry since "Free
> Speech" was taken over by Mario Savio.
> 
> The U.S. didn't make bold to make war. The RadLibs make bold to bring
> defeat, failure and demoralization to our Patriot Military, which is what
> all this dissidence is about.  Until it is understood what such a
> commentator understands about all the issues regarding the "war" it is
> impossible to have a frank, stable discussion.  For instance, recent
> translation of Baath top secret files recovered after my intervention in
> Iraq demonstrate ongoing colloboration with all Trrst Orgs and, also,
> involvement in the OklaCity Attack, as Jayna Davis reported, and WTC I.
> But people like Marilyn Nelson don't feel like reading what they don't
> want to read because it doesn't support their hopes and dreams and biases.
> 
> Laura Bush went out of her way for these people and they slapped her in
> the face.
> 
> Before Hillary Clinton stole the Federalist Furniture, she ordered the
> White House Marines to cease and desist with their gauche uniforms and to
> serve as wait staff.
> 
> You, a male Poet Laureate, if walking Hillary's future White House, will
> avert your eyes floorward if Her Highness approaches.
> 
> When the Bush Family returned to the White House, everyone who works there
> came out to greet them, weeping, saying, "Thank Gawd you have returned.
> You have no idea what we have endured."
> 
> The continual, endless, attack on the Republic and traditional American
> values, like courtesy, is now a cultural civil war.  What happened at the
> White House that day was another skirmish.
> 
> The RadLibs may have most of the poets, but they don't have the Marines.
> And, until that fateful hour, they can't win.
> 
> R.D.
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
> From: JforJames at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:
> 
> A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry and
> the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss
> and read
> the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does
> anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to this
> event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure,
> probably
> Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful,
> thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Marilyn Nelson was invited...
> 
> 
> 
> Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a
> silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First
> Lady's
> eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of poems
> and  scarves?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 17:06:24 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:06:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <c16.d99b75f.32e53de0@aol.com>

Marble
 

Greece has thrown white shadows
sown
their eyeballs with  oblivion
 
A flock of stone
Gods
perched upon pedestals
 
A populace
of athlete lilies
of the galleries
 
scoop the facades of space
with spiral curves
of idol substance
in  the silence
 
A colonnade
Apollo haunts Apollo
with the shade
of a lost  hand
 
--Mina Loy
The Lost Lunar Baedeker, 
selected and edited by Roger L.  Conover,
Noonday/FSG, 1996 
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 17:23:47 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:23:47 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
In-Reply-To: <3174.71.240.126.98.1169413129.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701210036.l0L0aat6014420@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<3174.71.240.126.98.1169413129.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480701211423yb7c6c70mf3aa2cd9d4a6ef37@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Sir,

This is the funniest thing I've read in *ages. You sure do brighten a
dark winter's evening. Please keep up the good work and don't stop
taking the meds, whatever the docs say, for they surely produce some
comedic gems. By Harry and St George! If only you could join the USO
and descend Bob Hope like, with Playboy Bunnies, into the darkest
heart of Baghdad and inspire the troops. You have a future! Roffles!!!

Roger

On 1/21/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>
> These poets weren't invited to denounce the President, they were invited
> to discuss three notable poets.  Her scarf was the least of the typical
> puella aeterneal RadLib dissidence that has claimed poetry since "Free
> Speech" was taken over by Mario Savio.
>
> The U.S. didn't make bold to make war. The RadLibs make bold to bring
> defeat, failure and demoralization to our Patriot Military, which is what
> all this dissidence is about.  Until it is understood what such a
> commentator understands about all the issues regarding the "war" it is
> impossible to have a frank, stable discussion.  For instance, recent
> translation of Baath top secret files recovered after my intervention in
> Iraq demonstrate ongoing colloboration with all Trrst Orgs and, also,
> involvement in the OklaCity Attack, as Jayna Davis reported, and WTC I.
> But people like Marilyn Nelson don't feel like reading what they don't
> want to read because it doesn't support their hopes and dreams and biases.
>
> Laura Bush went out of her way for these people and they slapped her in
> the face.
>
> Before Hillary Clinton stole the Federalist Furniture, she ordered the
> White House Marines to cease and desist with their gauche uniforms and to
> serve as wait staff.
>
> You, a male Poet Laureate, if walking Hillary's future White House, will
> avert your eyes floorward if Her Highness approaches.
>
> When the Bush Family returned to the White House, everyone who works there
> came out to greet them, weeping, saying, "Thank Gawd you have returned.
> You have no idea what we have endured."
>
> The continual, endless, attack on the Republic and traditional American
> values, like courtesy, is now a cultural civil war.  What happened at the
> White House that day was another skirmish.
>
> The RadLibs may have most of the poets, but they don't have the Marines.
> And, until that fateful hour, they can't win.
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
> From: JforJames at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:
>
> A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry and
> the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss
> and read
> the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does
> anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to this
> event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure,
> probably
> Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful,
> thanks.
>
>
>
> Marilyn Nelson was invited...
>
>
>
> Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a
> silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First
> Lady's
> eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of poems
> and  scarves?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"


From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Jan 21 17:26:39 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:26:39 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
	<002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com>

That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.

On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
>
> --Anthony Daniels
> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
>
>
> --Linda Sue
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"



From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 17:26:56 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:26:56 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <d0e.2d40d51.32e542b0@aol.com>

Geodes
 
They are useless, there is nothing
to be done with them, no reason,  only
 
the finding: letting myself down holding
to ironwood and the dry bristle  of roots
 
into the creekbed, into clear water shelved
below the outcroppings,  where crawdads spurt
 
through silt; clawing them out of clay, scrubbing
away the sand, setting  them in a shaft of light
 
to dry.  Sweat clings in the cliff's downdraft.
I take each one up  like a safecracker listening
 
for the lapse within, the moment crystal turns
on crystal.  It is  all waiting there in darkness.
 
I want to know only that things gather themselves
with great patience,  that they do this forever.
 

--Jared Carter
Work, for the Night Is Coming
Cleveland St. Univ.  Press, 1995
_http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=photo+geode&fr=yfp-t-442&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei
=UTF-8_ 
(http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=photo+geode&fr=yfp-t-442&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8) 
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From cralan at wordsinhere.com  Sun Jan 21 17:33:13 2007
From: cralan at wordsinhere.com (cralan kelder)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:33:13 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
In-Reply-To: <fde503480701211423yb7c6c70mf3aa2cd9d4a6ef37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1D9A8B9.3D25D%cralan@wordsinhere.com>

so you are itching for a fight.

Don?t think I?m your man, but I would ask,

any particular reason you?d choose a forum on poetics as the place to do
that?






On 1/21/07 11:23 PM, "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sir,
> 
> This is the funniest thing I've read in *ages. You sure do brighten a
> dark winter's evening. Please keep up the good work and don't stop
> taking the meds, whatever the docs say, for they surely produce some
> comedic gems. By Harry and St George! If only you could join the USO
> and descend Bob Hope like, with Playboy Bunnies, into the darkest
> heart of Baghdad and inspire the troops. You have a future! Roffles!!!
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hello suelin

Here is a perhaps related event,
a letter from Sharon Olds declining an invitation to poetry at the white
house.

http://www.litkicks.com/BeatPages/msg.jsp?what=OldsToBush

although i do not know if this is the event to which you refer.
perhaps this is helpful in your research.


geez, R.D.  you sure sound like you are itchin? for a fight.
> 
> 
> On 1/21/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > These poets weren't invited to denounce the President, they were invited
>> > to discuss three notable poets.  Her scarf was the least of the typical
>> > puella aeterneal RadLib dissidence that has claimed poetry since "Free
>> > Speech" was taken over by Mario Savio.
>> >
>> > The U.S. didn't make bold to make war. The RadLibs make bold to bring
>> > defeat, failure and demoralization to our Patriot Military, which is what
>> > all this dissidence is about.  Until it is understood what such a
>> > commentator understands about all the issues regarding the "war" it is
>> > impossible to have a frank, stable discussion.  For instance, recent
>> > translation of Baath top secret files recovered after my intervention in
>> > Iraq demonstrate ongoing colloboration with all Trrst Orgs and, also,
>> > involvement in the OklaCity Attack, as Jayna Davis reported, and WTC I.
>> > But people like Marilyn Nelson don't feel like reading what they don't
>> > want to read because it doesn't support their hopes and dreams and biases.
>> >
>> > Laura Bush went out of her way for these people and they slapped her in
>> > the face.
>> >
>> > Before Hillary Clinton stole the Federalist Furniture, she ordered the
>> > White House Marines to cease and desist with their gauche uniforms and to
>> > serve as wait staff.
>> >
>> > You, a male Poet Laureate, if walking Hillary's future White House, will
>> > avert your eyes floorward if Her Highness approaches.
>> >
>> > When the Bush Family returned to the White House, everyone who works there
>> > came out to greet them, weeping, saying, "Thank Gawd you have returned.
>> > You have no idea what we have endured."
>> >
>> > The continual, endless, attack on the Republic and traditional American
>> > values, like courtesy, is now a cultural civil war.  What happened at the
>> > White House that day was another skirmish.
>> >
>> > The RadLibs may have most of the poets, but they don't have the Marines.
>> > And, until that fateful hour, they can't win.
>> >
>> > R.D.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Message: 17
>> > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
>> > From: JforJames at aol.com
>> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
>> > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55 at aol.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> > In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> > suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:
>> >
>> > A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry and
>> > the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss
>> > and read
>> > the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does
>> > anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to
>> this
>> > event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure,
>> > probably
>> > Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful,
>> > thanks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Marilyn Nelson was invited...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a
>> > silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First
>> > Lady's
>> > eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of
>> poems
>> > and  scarves?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New-Poetry mailing list
>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >
> 


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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 21 18:21:07 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:21:07 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
References: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <3215EF0D-87D9-41A4-A1C6-55B84217CC07@earthlink.net>

Clear Becoming Cloudy

clear
cloar
cloard
clourd
cloudd
cloudy


Hal

"Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
			--Anselm Hollo

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 18:55:45 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:55:45 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] living in poetry
Message-ID: <d37.69a914.32e55781@aol.com>

That?s what I shall call living in poetry: prolonging the real not by the  
fantastic, the marvelous, images of paradise, but by trying to live what is  
concrete in its true dimension, living one?s daily life in what one might call,  
perhaps, the epic of the real.
 
To define the verb to live would be a whole philosophy. And nothing at  all.
 
We can amuse ourselves defining poetry, but we do not define  sensations.

--Guillevic
Living in Poetry: Interviews with  Guillevic,
translated from the French by Maureen Smith,
The Dedalus  Press, 1999, p. 11

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From debra at debradicembre.com  Sun Jan 21 19:41:18 2007
From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:41:18 +1100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY><002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <005301c73dbe$10fa05d0$0301010a@galaxy>

Thought provoking ...and ringing true...
Do tyrant parents raise rebels?
Is that who's trying to get out?
DD
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Sue Grimes 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:07 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation


  "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."

  --Anthony Daniels 
  "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
  http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/


  --Linda Sue



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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 19:52:50 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:52:50 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
Message-ID: <cc4.8c2df64.32e564e2@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/21/2007 4:39:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
debra at debradicembre.com writes:

Do tyrant parents raise  rebels?


Sometimes the submissive parent whose without a voice raises rebels too.  
~Raven
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From debra at debradicembre.com  Sun Jan 21 19:56:00 2007
From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:56:00 +1100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<3215EF0D-87D9-41A4-A1C6-55B84217CC07@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00a601c73dc0$1f8bcfa0$0301010a@galaxy>

Beautiful.
DD
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 10:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  Clear Becoming Cloudy


  clear
  cloar
  cloard
  clourd
  cloudd
  cloudy




  Hal


  "Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
  --Anselm Hollo


  Halvard Johnson
  ================
  halvard at gmail.com
  halvard at earthlink.net
  http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
  http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
  http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
  http://www.hamiltonstone.org 






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From debra at debradicembre.com  Sun Jan 21 20:09:57 2007
From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:09:57 +1100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
References: <cc4.8c2df64.32e564e2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00db01c73dc2$11f64350$0301010a@galaxy>

The silent tyrant?
I've met a few of those..
They tend to make themselves heard in other ways.
More damaging I think.
Better the tyrant who makes himself known.
DD

  From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation


  In a message dated 1/21/2007 4:39:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, debra at debradicembre.com writes:
    Do tyrant parents raise rebels?
  Sometimes the submissive parent whose without a voice raises rebels too.  ~Raven


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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 21 20:09:27 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:09:27 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <00a601c73dc0$1f8bcfa0$0301010a@galaxy>
References: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<3215EF0D-87D9-41A4-A1C6-55B84217CC07@earthlink.net>
	<00a601c73dc0$1f8bcfa0$0301010a@galaxy>
Message-ID: <E7EE6766-F2EF-45BB-BB61-7D458C62C459@earthlink.net>

?Like paths in a forest  . . .?
              ?Brian Ferneyhough

these lines are linear
moving from
left to right

evolving in parallel
moments, their elements
finding their apexes

at various points
in the work?
futile to look for

a climax
in itself, the essential
point assimilated

in the seemingly
sinuous progression
of the piece

as well as in
its duration



[source text: Brian Ferneyhough, comments on the ?Sonatas for String  
Quartet?
in the program notes for a CD performance by the Arditti String Quartet]

Hal

"I can see that you are the kind of young man who
  is accustomed to winning arguments."
                  --Gertrude Stein to Mortimer Adler

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org



On Jan 21, 2007, at 6:56 PM, Debra Dicembre wrote:

> Beautiful.
> DD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Halvard Johnson
> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
>
> Clear Becoming Cloudy
>
> clear
> cloar
> cloard
> clourd
> cloudd
> cloudy
>
>
> Hal
>
> "Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
> --Anselm Hollo
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 21 20:37:07 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:37:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <010801c73dc5$d6139e10$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Just a quick response to your post, Skip--I think the best thing is to be able to classify and use classifications where appropriate, and just float and ignore classifications where appropriate.  To put it really roughly, be a scientist if your goal is understanding how the universe fits together as best you can; be a non-scientist or artist if your goal is aesthetically appreciating it.

Needless to say, I have much more to say about it, but 99 things to do at the moment.

Thanks for posting on this, and for pointing to *Crystallography*, which seems to be something I ought to have a copy of.  I knew you had added the dots, by the way--and still think you may have invented a new kind of visual poem.  The extra lines of the poem make it quite a fine poem, I think--much more than an interesting conceptual poem, which it also is.

--Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 21 21:02:23 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:02:23 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
Message-ID: <d1a.3531c74.32e5752f@aol.com>

 
Wyeth?s Milk Cans 

Beyond them, hill and  field
Harden, and summer?s easy
Wheel-ruts lie congealed. 
What if these two bells  tolled?
They?d make the bark-splintering
Music of pure cold. 

--Richard Wilbur
?New  Poems?, Collected and New Poems,
Harcourt Brace,  1988

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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 02:11:04 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 07:11:04 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
In-Reply-To: <C1D9A8B9.3D25D%cralan@wordsinhere.com>
References: <fde503480701211423yb7c6c70mf3aa2cd9d4a6ef37@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1D9A8B9.3D25D%cralan@wordsinhere.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480701212311m17920d5el349882e593d37d65@mail.gmail.com>

apologies - I thought I was replying to the *other RD. Sorry about that.

Roger Day

who is not Richard Dillon

On 1/21/07, cralan kelder <cralan at wordsinhere.com> wrote:
>
>  so you are itching for a fight.
>
>  Don't think I'm your man, but I would ask,
>
>  any particular reason you'd choose a forum on poetics as the place to do
> that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On 1/21/07 11:23 PM, "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Sir,
>
>  This is the funniest thing I've read in *ages. You sure do brighten a
>  dark winter's evening. Please keep up the good work and don't stop
>  taking the meds, whatever the docs say, for they surely produce some
>  comedic gems. By Harry and St George! If only you could join the USO
>  and descend Bob Hope like, with Playboy Bunnies, into the darkest
>  heart of Baghdad and inspire the troops. You have a future! Roffles!!!
>
>  Roger
>
>
>
>
>  hello suelin
>
>  Here is a perhaps related event,
>  a letter from Sharon Olds declining an invitation to poetry at the white
> house.
>
> http://www.litkicks.com/BeatPages/msg.jsp?what=OldsToBush
>
>  although i do not know if this is the event to which you refer.
>  perhaps this is helpful in your research.
>
>
>  geez, R.D.  you sure sound like you are itchin' for a fight.
>
>
>
>
>  On 1/21/07, elemenope at icubed.com <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > These poets weren't invited to denounce the President, they were invited
>  > to discuss three notable poets.  Her scarf was the least of the typical
>  > puella aeterneal RadLib dissidence that has claimed poetry since "Free
>  > Speech" was taken over by Mario Savio.
>  >
>  > The U.S. didn't make bold to make war. The RadLibs make bold to bring
>  > defeat, failure and demoralization to our Patriot Military, which is what
>  > all this dissidence is about.  Until it is understood what such a
>  > commentator understands about all the issues regarding the "war" it is
>  > impossible to have a frank, stable discussion.  For instance, recent
>  > translation of Baath top secret files recovered after my intervention in
>  > Iraq demonstrate ongoing colloboration with all Trrst Orgs and, also,
>  > involvement in the OklaCity Attack, as Jayna Davis reported, and WTC I.
>  > But people like Marilyn Nelson don't feel like reading what they don't
>  > want to read because it doesn't support their hopes and dreams and
> biases.
>  >
>  > Laura Bush went out of her way for these people and they slapped her in
>  > the face.
>  >
>  > Before Hillary Clinton stole the Federalist Furniture, she ordered the
>  > White House Marines to cease and desist with their gauche uniforms and to
>  > serve as wait staff.
>  >
>  > You, a male Poet Laureate, if walking Hillary's future White House, will
>  > avert your eyes floorward if Her Highness approaches.
>  >
>  > When the Bush Family returned to the White House, everyone who works
> there
>  > came out to greet them, weeping, saying, "Thank Gawd you have returned.
>  > You have no idea what we have endured."
>  >
>  > The continual, endless, attack on the Republic and traditional American
>  > values, like courtesy, is now a cultural civil war.  What happened at the
>  > White House that day was another skirmish.
>  >
>  > The RadLibs may have most of the poets, but they don't have the Marines.
>  > And, until that fateful hour, they can't win.
>  >
>  > R.D.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Message: 17
>  > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
>  > From: JforJames at aol.com
>  > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
>  > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  > Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55 at aol.com>
>  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>  >
>  > In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>  > suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:
>  >
>  > A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry
> and
>  > the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss
>  > and read
>  > the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does
>  > anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to
> this
>  > event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure,
>  > probably
>  > Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful,
>  > thanks.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Marilyn Nelson was invited...
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a
>  > silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First
>  > Lady's
>  > eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of
> poems
>  > and  scarves?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > New-Poetry mailing list
>  > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>  >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 06:20:27 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 05:20:27 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><3D1103FE-35BA-43B9-B710-3E69A033D7B0@ripon.edu><005a01c73d8d$9a619d00$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<BB406D22-695B-4F6F-BD0A-84B3EF61E9AF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c73e17$51a27640$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

"explicit human presence is absent"

"in the hollow of a hand" is explicit

--Linda Sue
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andrew Nichols 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  Roman Fountain


  Two basins, one mounting above the other
  within a round, wide, ancient marble rim,
  and from the one above, water softly spilling
  down to water, which below stands waiting,


  answering its gentle talking with silence
  and secretly, as in the hollow of a hand,
  showing it sky behind greenness and darkness
  like some unfamiliar object; while it


  spreads peacefully in its own beautiful bowl
  without homesickness, circle after circle,
  only sometimes dreamily and drop by drop


  letting itself down on the mossy carvings
  to the last mirror, which, from below
  gazing upward, smiles gently with transitions.


  Rainer Maria Rilke, New Poems (1907), trans. by Edward Snow




  Some of language alludes to things of the human world, but explicit human presence is absent.  It's an interesting category, and as many others have mentioned, poems in the this line seem fairly rare.


  -Andrew




  On Jan 21, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:


    I'm not talking about excluding the human presence, just the explicit human presence.  The value is the same as painting a view of a mountainside lake with no human beings or houses, etc., in it.  It can also be a way of emphasizing language as language rather than as something to talk about people with.

    --Bob
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: David Graham 
      To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
      Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:36 PM
      Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


      There's a video of Robert Frost talking about being labelled a "nature poet" all the time.  Typically, he rejects the label, noting that he only wrote two poems in his life that "didn't have people in them."   


      I suppose that excluding all human footprints from a poem is an interesting exercise to try, though mostly as fantasy or impossible limit or something like that.  A technical exercise that might lead to some interesting new paths, perhaps.  But nearly impossible to pull off:  if nothing else, the voice of a poem tends to reveal a human presence, perspective, and so forth, even if the subject is a pebble.  Not to mention that language is itself an utterly human construct.


      One exercise I do from time to time in my journal is to write a poem without verbs.  And to try to disguise that fact as much as possible.  A silly enough thing to do, verbs being the battery that powers poetry's grammatical engine.  I've gotten a couple pieces that I like OK, actually, but for me it's mainly a warm-up exercise, a way to flex my prepositional and other muscles.


      In any event, I guess that for me the relevant question here would be why:  why would one *want* to exclude human presence from a poem.  Sort of like excluding human breath from a saxophone solo, it would appear:  I mean, you can *do* it, sort of, with synthesizers & such, but what's the payoff?  I don't mean that there isn't a payoff, necessarily, only that that's the question I'd want to pose, early and often.




      On Jan 20, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Linda Sue Grimes wrote:


        Bob G.--

        What is your purpose in finding "poems about inanimate objects only"?  Are you looking for poems that merely provide things as things themselves--things qua things--, and not to make some human comparison or element of humanness?

        --Linda Su






      ========================================
      David Graham
      grahamd at ripon.edu
      Home Page:
      http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
      Poetry Library:
      http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
      ==========================================









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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 06:32:49 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:32:49 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <3215EF0D-87D9-41A4-A1C6-55B84217CC07@earthlink.net>
References: <000001c73d8e$4701d020$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<3215EF0D-87D9-41A4-A1C6-55B84217CC07@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60701220332k2a5e0870y901093e16abd8263@mail.gmail.com>

Wood

Would
willow
pine?


On 1/21/07, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Clear Becoming Cloudy
>
> clear
> cloar
> cloard
> clourd
> cloudd
> cloudy
>
>
> Hal
>
> "Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
>  --Anselm Hollo
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 06:40:52 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 05:40:52 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
References: <C1D99DD1.3D24F%cralan@wordsinhere.com>
Message-ID: <002101c73e1a$2bee5560$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American VoiceThank you, cralan kelder; I'm looking for invitees to the 2003 Poetry and the American Voice symposium, but I find this bit of info interesting and helpful as well.

--Linda Sue
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: cralan kelder 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice


  hello suelin

  Here is a perhaps related event, 
  a letter from Sharon Olds declining an invitation to poetry at the white house.

  http://www.litkicks.com/BeatPages/msg.jsp?what=OldsToBush

  although i do not know if this is the event to which you refer.
  perhaps this is helpful in your research.


  geez, R.D.  you sure sound like you are itchin' for a fight.






  On 1/21/07 9:58 PM, "elemenope at icubed.com" <elemenope at icubed.com> wrote:



    These poets weren't invited to denounce the President, they were invited
    to discuss three notable poets.  Her scarf was the least of the typical
    puella aeterneal RadLib dissidence that has claimed poetry since "Free
    Speech" was taken over by Mario Savio.

    The U.S. didn't make bold to make war. The RadLibs make bold to bring
    defeat, failure and demoralization to our Patriot Military, which is what
    all this dissidence is about.  Until it is understood what such a
    commentator understands about all the issues regarding the "war" it is
    impossible to have a frank, stable discussion.  For instance, recent
    translation of Baath top secret files recovered after my intervention in
    Iraq demonstrate ongoing colloboration with all Trrst Orgs and, also,
    involvement in the OklaCity Attack, as Jayna Davis reported, and WTC I. 
    But people like Marilyn Nelson don't feel like reading what they don't
    want to read because it doesn't support their hopes and dreams and biases.

    Laura Bush went out of her way for these people and they slapped her in
    the face.

    Before Hillary Clinton stole the Federalist Furniture, she ordered the
    White House Marines to cease and desist with their gauche uniforms and to
    serve as wait staff.

    You, a male Poet Laureate, if walking Hillary's future White House, will
    avert your eyes floorward if Her Highness approaches.

    When the Bush Family returned to the White House, everyone who works there
    came out to greet them, weeping, saying, "Thank Gawd you have returned. 
    You have no idea what we have endured."

    The continual, endless, attack on the Republic and traditional American
    values, like courtesy, is now a cultural civil war.  What happened at the
    White House that day was another skirmish.

    The RadLibs may have most of the poets, but they don't have the Marines.
    And, until that fateful hour, they can't win.

    R.D.



    Message: 17
    Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 18:10:13 EST
    From: JforJames at aol.com
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
    To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    Message-ID: <cce.7a261c2.32e3fb55 at aol.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

    In a message dated 1/20/2007 5:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    suelin7184 at gmail.com writes:

    A few years ago, the White House scheduled a  symposium called "Poetry and
    the American Voice" to which a number of poets  were invited to discuss
    and read
    the poetry of Langston Hughes, Emily  Dickinson, and Walt Whitman.  Does
    anyone know who those poets  were who actually received an invitation to this
    event?  I know that  Sam Hamill did, but other than that I'm not sure,
    probably
    Rita Dove and other  former poets laureate.  Any info would be useful, 
    thanks.



    Marilyn Nelson was invited...



    Marilyn Nelson, poet laureate of Connecticut, said she planned to wear a
    silk scarf decorated with peace symbols, in hopes of attracting the First
    Lady's
    eye. So is that it? The White House, so bold to make war, is afraid of poems
    and  scarves?





    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 06:45:55 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 05:45:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY><002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

Yes, and Washington and the founding fathers knew that; that's why they 
worked to create a republic with a document that might keep a tyranny from 
happening.  And as you might remember, Washington turned down the chance to 
serve a third term.

--Linda Sue Grimes

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation


> That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.
>
> On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
>>
>> --Anthony Daniels
>> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
>> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
>>
>>
>> --Linda Sue
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.badstep.net/
> "Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 



From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 08:15:30 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 05:15:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] clear becoming cloudy
In-Reply-To: <200701221054.l0MAsPt6011519@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <986875.91952.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hal,
I concur heartily (with DD), that's a beautiful piece.


Brother to Celan's:
Deep in snow,
             Eepinno,
                     I--i--o.

Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From cralan at wordsinhere.com  Mon Jan 22 10:02:43 2007
From: cralan at wordsinhere.com (cralan kelder)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:02:43 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] what to call Clourd
In-Reply-To: <3215EF0D-87D9-41A4-A1C6-55B84217CC07@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C1DA90A3.3D38C%cralan@wordsinhere.com>

yes, its a wonderful poem, and raises a question, or at least a subject, in
that it reminds me of contemporary british poets (all happen to be male)
whose work i find hard to classify or group together, perhaps there is a
?name? for it, of which I am not aware.

In their work, emphasis is often placed on the presentation of one or two
(in this case evolving) words, or a single sentence or concept.

I?m thinking of Thomas A Clark, Simon Cutts, Colin Sackett, Ian Hamilton
Finlay, Ian Whittlesea, Hamish Fulton...

i suppose in a sense its a form of visual or concrete poetry, but this
somehow doesn?t seem to be the right terminology.

the work is very pared down, sparse, emphasis often placed on the
presentation of just a few words.

Until a few years ago I wasn?t aware of this type of poetry, I was used to
opening books that were filled with columns on every page.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this subject?



cralan


On 1/22/07 12:21 AM, "Halvard Johnson" <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Clear Becoming Cloudy
> 
> clear
> cloar
> cloard
> clourd
> cloudd
> cloudy
> 
> 
> Hal
> 
>  
> "Always treat language like a dangerous toy."
> --Anselm Hollo
> 
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com?
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 10:48:19 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:48:19 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
In-Reply-To: <002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
	<002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <fde503480701220748o7f1f20co5ba409165b074357@mail.gmail.com>

I'm also an admirer of your consitution; it's one of the reasons I
want a European Constitution. It's a pity that this administration
can't share my enthusiasm for the same document.

I read somewhere that one of Washington's finest acheivements was
*disbanding* the Continental Army.  Armies are dangerous things,
liable to go off in your hand if you're not careful and I think this
act says a lot about him as well.

It's only recently that soldiers have been treated as mystical
super-patriots (mysticism, often a resort of the right-wing, means you
get to blanket awkward questions, things you don't want to answer),
and there's not much patriotism in the war in Iraq. The US Army's
recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
for fresh blood.

Roger

On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, and Washington and the founding fathers knew that; that's why they
> worked to create a republic with a document that might keep a tyranny from
> happening.  And as you might remember, Washington turned down the chance to
> serve a third term.
>
> --Linda Sue Grimes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
>
>
> > That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.
> >
> > On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
> >>
> >> --Anthony Daniels
> >> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
> >> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
> >>
> >>
> >> --Linda Sue
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.badstep.net/
> > "Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."



From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 12:07:21 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:07:21 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><007d01c73ce5$6adaccd0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY><002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com><002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701220748o7f1f20co5ba409165b074357@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ba01c73e47$c7bdbfd0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

You wrote:
>The US Army's
> recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
> for fresh blood.

For 2005, the Army met 92% of it recruitment goal, while the Navy, Air Force, and Marines, met or exceeded theirs.  For 2006, all the branches met or exceed their goals.

--Linda Sue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation


> I'm also an admirer of your consitution; it's one of the reasons I
> want a European Constitution. It's a pity that this administration
> can't share my enthusiasm for the same document.
> 
> I read somewhere that one of Washington's finest acheivements was
> *disbanding* the Continental Army.  Armies are dangerous things,
> liable to go off in your hand if you're not careful and I think this
> act says a lot about him as well.
> 
> It's only recently that soldiers have been treated as mystical
> super-patriots (mysticism, often a resort of the right-wing, means you
> get to blanket awkward questions, things you don't want to answer),
> and there's not much patriotism in the war in Iraq. The US Army's
> recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
> for fresh blood.
> 
> Roger
> 
> On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, and Washington and the founding fathers knew that; that's why they
>> worked to create a republic with a document that might keep a tyranny from
>> happening.  And as you might remember, Washington turned down the chance to
>> serve a third term.
>>
>> --Linda Sue Grimes
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
>> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
>>
>>
>> > That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.
>> >
>> > On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
>> >>
>> >> --Anthony Daniels
>> >> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
>> >> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --Linda Sue
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> New-Poetry mailing list
>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://www.badstep.net/
>> > "Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New-Poetry mailing list
>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.badstep.net/
> "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Mon Jan 22 12:56:57 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:56:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <010801c73dc5$d6139e10$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <006001c73e4e$bb1e6110$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

Bob-

 

Yes, come to think of it, Bok would seem to be immediately up your alley.
_Crystallography_. Over 150 pages of intelligent work, some with transparent
overlays and crystalline or fractalic (?) figures. Also, the pataphysics
which he and others have revived from Oulipo days may be of significant
interest to you:

 

http://nupress.northwestern.edu/title.cfm?ISBN=0-8101-1877-7

 

That's his book on the matter, but there is much on the web. (It's not
strongly in my flow of interests, but it _is_ interesting.)

 

His _Eunoia_ is a brilliant book of constraint based literature:

 

http://www.ubu.com/contemp/bok/eunoia_final.html

 

Most people do not believe what hs is able to do. Each fascicle has only a
single vowel. Each uses 97% of the monovowelic words. Each has a banquet, a
sex scene, a perilous sea voyage, etc. Very interesting.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:37 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

 

Just a quick response to your post, Skip--I think the best thing is to be
able to classify and use classifications where appropriate, and just float
and ignore classifications where appropriate.  To put it really roughly, be
a scientist if your goal is understanding how the universe fits together as
best you can; be a non-scientist or artist if your goal is aesthetically
appreciating it.

 

Needless to say, I have much more to say about it, but 99 things to do at
the moment.

 

Thanks for posting on this, and for pointing to *Crystallography*, which
seems to be something I ought to have a copy of.  I knew you had added the
dots, by the way--and still think you may have invented a new kind of visual
poem.  The extra lines of the poem make it quite a fine poem, I think--much
more than an interesting conceptual poem, which it also is.

 

--Bob G.

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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 13:10:04 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:10:04 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
In-Reply-To: <00ba01c73e47$c7bdbfd0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
	<002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701220748o7f1f20co5ba409165b074357@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ba01c73e47$c7bdbfd0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <fde503480701221010m4682fdadhc7f288c5285fd7ab@mail.gmail.com>

The Marines I don't know about; you can discount the Air Force and the
Navy; nobody is currently being blasted out the sky or water by
unfriendly forces.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/09/national/main700721.shtml
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,77951,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl

"The Army has not published official figures yet, but it apparently
finished the 12-month counting period that ends Friday with about
73,000 recruits. Its goal was 80,000. A gap of 7,000 enlistees would
be the largest - in absolute number as well as in percentage terms -
since 1979, according to Army records."

Apparently, they had to increase the amount of cheese in 2005 to reach
those targets:

"With the summer recruiting season in mind, the Army has added
hundreds of extra recruiters, raised the enlistment bonus for
four-year commitments to $20,000, and targeted more advertising at
parents. Hilferty says the extra recruiters are being counted on to
produce big results between now and September."

I note that the cheese wasn't particularly patriotic in nature.  And
there was still an 8% shortfall! For shame on you, O Youth of America!
Is not Liberty enough to Stir your Heart? Apparently not. On this
theme,  I wonder which corps was the least attractive? My bets are on
the PBI. I've heard talk of introducing women to the front-line to
make-up the short-fall. About time too.

So the US Army is having to work harder at standing still. Not a good
situation with a volunteer army espeicially if you're at war on 2
fronts, and may have to fight on a 3rd. And they're increasing the
number of "re-up"s - what is it, 3 tours now if you're in the NG?  I
bet those guys (and their businesses) are real happy at *that
prospect.  Still, even with your spin on it, this war isn't popular. I
don't see them lining up around the block to go and get shot.

My bets are on conscription. But even that won't let-out the real
chickenhawks, people like Cheney too busy doing what was it, I can't
quite remember. Or Bush, biding his time in a Texas ANG unit in the
backwoods of nowhere. Tell me, is there any real substantial evidence
to his having *flown whilst he was there?

I wonder, how many on this list chomping at the bit about war, are
actually of an age to go and get shot?

Roger

On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> You wrote:
> >The US Army's
> > recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
> > for fresh blood.
>
> For 2005, the Army met 92% of it recruitment goal, while the Navy, Air
> Force, and Marines, met or exceeded theirs.  For 2006, all the branches met
> or exceed their goals.
>
> --Linda Sue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
>
>
> > I'm also an admirer of your consitution; it's one of the reasons I
> > want a European Constitution. It's a pity that this administration
> > can't share my enthusiasm for the same document.
> >
> > I read somewhere that one of Washington's finest acheivements was
> > *disbanding* the Continental Army.  Armies are dangerous things,
> > liable to go off in your hand if you're not careful and I think this
> > act says a lot about him as well.
> >
> > It's only recently that soldiers have been treated as mystical
> > super-patriots (mysticism, often a resort of the right-wing, means you
> > get to blanket awkward questions, things you don't want to answer),
> > and there's not much patriotism in the war in Iraq. The US Army's
> > recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
> > for fresh blood.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yes, and Washington and the founding fathers knew that; that's why they
> >> worked to create a republic with a document that might keep a tyranny
> from
> >> happening.  And as you might remember, Washington turned down the chance
> to
> >> serve a third term.
> >>
> >> --Linda Sue Grimes
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
> >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> >> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:26 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
> >>
> >>
> >> > That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.
> >> >
> >> > On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
> >> >>
> >> >> --Anthony Daniels
> >> >> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
> >> >> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --Linda Sue
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > http://www.badstep.net/
> >> > "Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > New-Poetry mailing list
> >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.badstep.net/
> > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."



From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 13:17:57 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:17:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><001c01c73ce6$a3a85090$0201a8c0@LindaSue><00ab01c73cf8$17933db0$2ffad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY><002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue><fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com><002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue><fde503480701220748o7f1f20co5ba409165b074357@mail.gmail.com><00ba01c73e47$c7bdbfd0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701221010m4682fdadhc7f288c5285fd7ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c73e51$a4e45910$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

2006  http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/06recruiting.htm
2005 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/recruitgoals.htm



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation


> The Marines I don't know about; you can discount the Air Force and the
> Navy; nobody is currently being blasted out the sky or water by
> unfriendly forces.
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/09/national/main700721.shtml
> http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,77951,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl
>
> "The Army has not published official figures yet, but it apparently
> finished the 12-month counting period that ends Friday with about
> 73,000 recruits. Its goal was 80,000. A gap of 7,000 enlistees would
> be the largest - in absolute number as well as in percentage terms -
> since 1979, according to Army records."
>
> Apparently, they had to increase the amount of cheese in 2005 to reach
> those targets:
>
> "With the summer recruiting season in mind, the Army has added
> hundreds of extra recruiters, raised the enlistment bonus for
> four-year commitments to $20,000, and targeted more advertising at
> parents. Hilferty says the extra recruiters are being counted on to
> produce big results between now and September."
>
> I note that the cheese wasn't particularly patriotic in nature.  And
> there was still an 8% shortfall! For shame on you, O Youth of America!
> Is not Liberty enough to Stir your Heart? Apparently not. On this
> theme,  I wonder which corps was the least attractive? My bets are on
> the PBI. I've heard talk of introducing women to the front-line to
> make-up the short-fall. About time too.
>
> So the US Army is having to work harder at standing still. Not a good
> situation with a volunteer army espeicially if you're at war on 2
> fronts, and may have to fight on a 3rd. And they're increasing the
> number of "re-up"s - what is it, 3 tours now if you're in the NG?  I
> bet those guys (and their businesses) are real happy at *that
> prospect.  Still, even with your spin on it, this war isn't popular. I
> don't see them lining up around the block to go and get shot.
>
> My bets are on conscription. But even that won't let-out the real
> chickenhawks, people like Cheney too busy doing what was it, I can't
> quite remember. Or Bush, biding his time in a Texas ANG unit in the
> backwoods of nowhere. Tell me, is there any real substantial evidence
> to his having *flown whilst he was there?
>
> I wonder, how many on this list chomping at the bit about war, are
> actually of an age to go and get shot?
>
> Roger
>
> On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You wrote:
>> >The US Army's
>> > recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
>> > for fresh blood.
>>
>> For 2005, the Army met 92% of it recruitment goal, while the Navy, Air
>> Force, and Marines, met or exceeded theirs.  For 2006, all the branches 
>> met
>> or exceed their goals.
>>
>> --Linda Sue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
>> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>
>> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
>>
>>
>> > I'm also an admirer of your consitution; it's one of the reasons I
>> > want a European Constitution. It's a pity that this administration
>> > can't share my enthusiasm for the same document.
>> >
>> > I read somewhere that one of Washington's finest acheivements was
>> > *disbanding* the Continental Army.  Armies are dangerous things,
>> > liable to go off in your hand if you're not careful and I think this
>> > act says a lot about him as well.
>> >
>> > It's only recently that soldiers have been treated as mystical
>> > super-patriots (mysticism, often a resort of the right-wing, means you
>> > get to blanket awkward questions, things you don't want to answer),
>> > and there's not much patriotism in the war in Iraq. The US Army's
>> > recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
>> > for fresh blood.
>> >
>> > Roger
>> >
>> > On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Yes, and Washington and the founding fathers knew that; that's why 
>> >> they
>> >> worked to create a republic with a document that might keep a tyranny
>> from
>> >> happening.  And as you might remember, Washington turned down the 
>> >> chance
>> to
>> >> serve a third term.
>> >>
>> >> --Linda Sue Grimes
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
>> >> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:26 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --Anthony Daniels
>> >> >> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
>> >> >> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --Linda Sue
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> New-Poetry mailing list
>> >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > http://www.badstep.net/
>> >> > "Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > New-Poetry mailing list
>> >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> New-Poetry mailing list
>> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://www.badstep.net/
>> > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New-Poetry mailing list
>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.badstep.net/
> "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 



From steven.mccall at navy.mil  Mon Jan 22 13:38:16 2007
From: steven.mccall at navy.mil (Mccall, Steven NAVAIR)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:38:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <d0e.2d40d51.32e542b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BBEEA311@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>

The "Geodes" poem is great.

Here's two by Francis Ponge, who was mentioned earlier, from "The Nature
of Things" (translated by Lee Fahnestock).  Ponge was one of the best
'thing' poets, along with Neruda in his "Odes to Common Things."
(Pardon the following enjambment; this is how they were printed.)

RIPE BLACKBERRIES

On the typographic shrubbery constituted by the poem
Along a path that leads neither away from things nor toward
The mere, a kind of fruit is formed from an agglomeration of
Sphere, each filled with a drop of ink.

Black, pink, and khaki clustered together, they offer the
Spectacle of an eccentric family at all their ages, rather than
Any strong temptation to pick them.
Given the disproportion of seeds to pulp, birds don't really
Relish them--in the end so little remains to them when
They've seen it through from beak to anus.

But here in the course of his professional ramble, the poet
Picks up food for thought: "This," he says to himself, "is
How success largely crowns the patient efforts of a flower that
Is very fragile though protected by forbidding tangles of
Thorn.  Without too many other virtues these berries, black
As their name and their drops of ink, are ripened to their per-
Fection, which also goes for this poem."

THE PLEASURES OF A DOOR

Kings never touch a door.
It is a joy unknown to them: pushing open whether rudely
Or kindly one of those great familiar panels, turning to put it
Back in place--holding a door in one's embrace.

...The joy of grasping one of those tall barriers to a room by
The porcelain knot in its middle; the quick contact in which,
With forward motion briefly arrested, the eye opens wide,
And the whole body adjusts to its new surroundings.

With a friendly hand it is stayed a moment longer before
Giving it a decided shove and closing oneself in, a condition
Pleasantly confirmed by the click of a strong but well-oiled
Lock spring.


-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
JforJames at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 17:27
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only

Geodes
 
They are useless, there is nothing
to be done with them, no reason, only
 
the finding: letting myself down holding to ironwood and the dry bristle
of roots
 
into the creekbed, into clear water shelved below the outcroppings,
where crawdads spurt
 
through silt; clawing them out of clay, scrubbing away the sand, setting
them in a shaft of light
 
to dry.  Sweat clings in the cliff's downdraft.
I take each one up like a safecracker listening
 
for the lapse within, the moment crystal turns on crystal.  It is all
waiting there in darkness.
 
I want to know only that things gather themselves with great patience,
that they do this forever.
 

--Jared Carter
Work, for the Night Is Coming
Cleveland St. Univ. Press, 1995
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=photo+geode&fr=yfp-t-442&toggle=1&cop=m
ss&ei=UTF-8



From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu  Mon Jan 22 14:12:45 2007
From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:12:45 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BBEEA311@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
References: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BBEEA311@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <45B50CAD.5070203@medicine.nodak.edu>

It suddenly occurred to me, after all the traffic about such poems, that 
no one had mentioned A. R. Ammons. Here's a timely correction to that 
omission:

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu

----------------------------------------------------

    _February Beach_

Underneath, the dunes
    are solid,
        frozen with rain
    the sand
held and let
go deep
without losing
    till a clearing freeze
left water the keeper of sand:

warm days since
have intervened,
softened
        the surface,
evaporated
the thaw
    and let the grains loose: now
the white grains drift against the dunes
and ripple as if in summer,
hiding the hard deep marriage
    of sand and ice:

fog lay thick here
most of the morning
        but now lifting, rides
in low from the sea,
    filters inland through the dunes
but
        over the warm and
sunny and rising
loses its shape out of sight:

the dense clumps of grass, bent
        over,
still wet with fog,
        drop
    dark buttons of held fog on thin dry sand,
separately, here, there large drops,
another rainsent shape:

distant, the ocean's breakers
merge into high splintering
    sound,
the wind low, even, inland, wet,
a perfect carriage
        for resolve, continuous striving:
        not the deep breakage and roar
    of collapsing hollows:
    sound that creation may not be complete,
that the land may not have been
given
permanently,
        that something remains
to be agreed on,
a lofty burn of sound, a clamoring and
        coming on:

how will the mix be
        of mound and breaker,
grain and droplet: how
    long can the freeze hold, the wind lie,
the free sand
keep the deep secret:  turn:  the gold
        grass will come
green in time, the dark stalks of rushes
will settle
    in the hollows, the ice bridge
        dissolving, yielding

will leave solid
bottom for summer fording: the black bushes
        will leaf,
hinder
the sea-bringing wind:  turn  turn
        here with these chances
taken, here to take these chances: land winds will
rise, feed
back the sands, humble the breakers:  today's
        high unrelenting cry will relent:
the waves will lap with broken, separate,
    quiet sounds:
let the thaw that will come, come:  the dissolved
        reorganizes
    to resilience.

          from _Northfield Poems_

                by A. R. Ammons
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 22 14:26:44 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:26:44 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
In-Reply-To: <000a01c73e51$a4e45910$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
References: <000001c73cdc$b5e342b0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<009301c73d38$f65ea850$9cd73152@ANNY>
	<002601c73d4f$705ea4f0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00bb01c73d6d$eac9ece0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701211426p32df558fwcfe79c7d18abe8bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<002c01c73e1a$e1342030$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701220748o7f1f20co5ba409165b074357@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ba01c73e47$c7bdbfd0$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
	<fde503480701221010m4682fdadhc7f288c5285fd7ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01c73e51$a4e45910$0201a8c0@LindaSue>
Message-ID: <fde503480701221126j2515d157q4861a86b031da5f5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not doubting your statement that the US Armed Services met and
even exceeded their goals. I'm questioning the cost and manner of that
reach, neither of which the articles you quote refute.

Note, too, that the US Air Force  *decreased* recruitment goals 2005:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforcejoin/a/recruitgoaldec.htm.

After all that stellar work, those Sergeant Musgraves will have to
work even harder, according to
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/14/AR2006121400803.html,
with an Army almost broken by ill-chosen, ill-defined, ill-thought-out
wars.  Note, too, Schoomaker's remark about "involuntary" call-up of
reserves. Ah, conscription calls.

So when do you and RD sign up?

Roger

On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2006  http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/06recruiting.htm
> 2005 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/recruitgoals.htm
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
>
>
> > The Marines I don't know about; you can discount the Air Force and the
> > Navy; nobody is currently being blasted out the sky or water by
> > unfriendly forces.
> >
> > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/09/national/main700721.shtml
> > http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,77951,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl
> >
> > "The Army has not published official figures yet, but it apparently
> > finished the 12-month counting period that ends Friday with about
> > 73,000 recruits. Its goal was 80,000. A gap of 7,000 enlistees would
> > be the largest - in absolute number as well as in percentage terms -
> > since 1979, according to Army records."
> >
> > Apparently, they had to increase the amount of cheese in 2005 to reach
> > those targets:
> >
> > "With the summer recruiting season in mind, the Army has added
> > hundreds of extra recruiters, raised the enlistment bonus for
> > four-year commitments to $20,000, and targeted more advertising at
> > parents. Hilferty says the extra recruiters are being counted on to
> > produce big results between now and September."
> >
> > I note that the cheese wasn't particularly patriotic in nature.  And
> > there was still an 8% shortfall! For shame on you, O Youth of America!
> > Is not Liberty enough to Stir your Heart? Apparently not. On this
> > theme,  I wonder which corps was the least attractive? My bets are on
> > the PBI. I've heard talk of introducing women to the front-line to
> > make-up the short-fall. About time too.
> >
> > So the US Army is having to work harder at standing still. Not a good
> > situation with a volunteer army espeicially if you're at war on 2
> > fronts, and may have to fight on a 3rd. And they're increasing the
> > number of "re-up"s - what is it, 3 tours now if you're in the NG?  I
> > bet those guys (and their businesses) are real happy at *that
> > prospect.  Still, even with your spin on it, this war isn't popular. I
> > don't see them lining up around the block to go and get shot.
> >
> > My bets are on conscription. But even that won't let-out the real
> > chickenhawks, people like Cheney too busy doing what was it, I can't
> > quite remember. Or Bush, biding his time in a Texas ANG unit in the
> > backwoods of nowhere. Tell me, is there any real substantial evidence
> > to his having *flown whilst he was there?
> >
> > I wonder, how many on this list chomping at the bit about war, are
> > actually of an age to go and get shot?
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> You wrote:
> >> >The US Army's
> >> > recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
> >> > for fresh blood.
> >>
> >> For 2005, the Army met 92% of it recruitment goal, while the Navy, Air
> >> Force, and Marines, met or exceeded theirs.  For 2006, all the branches
> >> met
> >> or exceed their goals.
> >>
> >> --Linda Sue
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
> >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> >> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:48 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
> >>
> >>
> >> > I'm also an admirer of your consitution; it's one of the reasons I
> >> > want a European Constitution. It's a pity that this administration
> >> > can't share my enthusiasm for the same document.
> >> >
> >> > I read somewhere that one of Washington's finest acheivements was
> >> > *disbanding* the Continental Army.  Armies are dangerous things,
> >> > liable to go off in your hand if you're not careful and I think this
> >> > act says a lot about him as well.
> >> >
> >> > It's only recently that soldiers have been treated as mystical
> >> > super-patriots (mysticism, often a resort of the right-wing, means you
> >> > get to blanket awkward questions, things you don't want to answer),
> >> > and there's not much patriotism in the war in Iraq. The US Army's
> >> > recruitment figures underline this point with 2005 being a low point
> >> > for fresh blood.
> >> >
> >> > Roger
> >> >
> >> > On 1/22/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Yes, and Washington and the founding fathers knew that; that's why
> >> >> they
> >> >> worked to create a republic with a document that might keep a tyranny
> >> from
> >> >> happening.  And as you might remember, Washington turned down the
> >> >> chance
> >> to
> >> >> serve a third term.
> >> >>
> >> >> --Linda Sue Grimes
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
> >> >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
> >> >> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> >> >> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:26 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Interesting quotation
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > That'll include Washington and most of the founding fathers then.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 1/21/07, Linda Sue Grimes <suelin7184 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Inside every rebel, there's a tyrant trying to get out."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --Anthony Daniels
> >> >> >> "The Rea Ch?" in The New Criterion
> >> >> >> http://newcriterion.com/archives/23/10/the-real-che/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --Linda Sue
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > http://www.badstep.net/
> >> >> > "Hello Cleveland! Hello Cleveland!"
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > New-Poetry mailing list
> >> >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > http://www.badstep.net/
> >> > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > New-Poetry mailing list
> >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.badstep.net/
> > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Jan 22 15:11:11 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:11:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <006001c73e4e$bb1e6110$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <006601c73e61$7828ad30$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Thanks, Skip.  I actually met Christian a while back but he was doing mostly sound poetry I wasn't getting--plus hanging with a different crowd than mine.  But I'll have to look into his stuff.  

By the way, my blog entry for today is on the poem of his you brought to our attention--with you acknowledged as its finder, and your dots re-discussed.  It's at http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html.

--Bob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Skip Fox 
  To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views' 
  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:56 PM
  Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only


  Bob-



  Yes, come to think of it, Bok would seem to be immediately up your alley. _Crystallography_. Over 150 pages of intelligent work, some with transparent overlays and crystalline or fractalic (?) figures. Also, the pataphysics which he and others have revived from Oulipo days may be of significant interest to you:



  http://nupress.northwestern.edu/title.cfm?ISBN=0-8101-1877-7



  That's his book on the matter, but there is much on the web. (It's not strongly in my flow of interests, but it _is_ interesting.)



  His _Eunoia_ is a brilliant book of constraint based literature:



  http://www.ubu.com/contemp/bok/eunoia_final.html



  Most people do not believe what hs is able to do. Each fascicle has only a single vowel. Each uses 97% of the monovowelic words. Each has a banquet, a sex scene, a perilous sea voyage, etc. Very interesting.



  Skip Fox
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 22 15:11:54 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:11:54 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] a message
Message-ID: <005301c73e61$902fccb0$952ab750@ANNY>

praised as excellent and sent to me by Joel Weishaus, see below:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Sondheim" <sondheim at panix.com>
To: "New Media Poetics" <leanmp at googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:22 PM
Subject: {LEA: nmp}. Re: nmp}. Re: Where's the new poetry in the new media?


An interesting discussion. What I'm reading seems to have a lot to do with
taste in a sense. Some writers will want to revisit and work with older
forms, and some won't. Forms themselves can be considered through internal
and esoteric typologies - i.e. what happens 'within' a sonnet in terms of
rhymscheme - what happens 'outside' a piece in terms of Flash. The dis-
tinctions break down almost immediately; they're perhaps of practical use
only - i.e. I want to do _x_ in Flash - how do I do it?

And I think any distinctions tend to fuzz out - deeply, not just on the
surface. So if you think of yourself within the whole field of cultural
production, then what happens most likely is you find your own path. You
can see this happening with Lautreamont for example.

"New media poetry" is a misnomer - one might say poetry or poetics with an
esoteric or internal relation to recent technologies - or poetry or
poetics dependent on recent technologies. Dependent how? Either or both in
their mode of production and their mode of reception; one might also add,
their mode of transmission (i.e. POD publish-on-demand). The problems come
about if one holds onto "new media" or "new media poetry" or "media
poetry" as a genre, and from the genre, the academic/canonic isn't that
far away. It's easy to go from description to imperative, from this poem
mimics Hypercard to we should know/use/recognize/createwithin/etc. Hyper-
card. But in the wide world of culture, there's no inherent reason for
this, I think.

The world is changing quickly in terms of structure of political power,
communalities, technologies, and distributions. Second Life relates to, is
based on, say, Lambda MOO, but it's qualitatively different; among other
things, it's being used as MOs for gangs, terrorists, and security - not
to mention coding, poetry readings, general 'creation.' No one would
really have predicted this - and who knows where we'll be in another ten
years. (Who would have predicted 1200 friends on MySpace?)

Like it or not, we're on a ride in a medium (Net) that's increasingly
frail (re: Taiwan after the quake, or spam's continuous exponential
growth), and dangerous (the use of the Net by gangs, criminal organi-
zations, etc.). Our ride is on the surface; we're gathred almost literlaly
in pools, communalities, which may or may not survive another few years.
So it seems to me that the best way to proceed is through grace and
generosity - in other words, at last for now the (creative/technological/
audience/distributivity/communality) gates are opened - it's the time to
ignore the canonic, the outmoded concept of genre, even the word 'new'
which is so overdetermined - and simply make the best and most exciting
work we can.

- Alan




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 22 16:07:11 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:07:11 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
References: <006001c73e4e$bb1e6110$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
	<006601c73e61$7828ad30$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <008101c73e69$494d0120$952ab750@ANNY>

I also have Crystallography here, 
such a wonderful book to hold in your hands,
you will love it Bob, or whoever is going to buy it.

>From Lucid Writing:

...

The first edition of this book was published by the old Coach House Press in 1994. When Margaret McClintock, the editor, accepted the book for publication, she admitted that no one in her office had the skill to typeset such an unorthodox manuscript. Surprised that a press renowned for the quality of its design could no longer call upon the talents of its traditional typesetters, I brazenly declared that, if necessary, I would teach myself the software and set the book myself.
Crystallography appeared in print only because my friend Katy Chan, a designer, donated weeks of her own expertise to this meticulous enterprise, letting me supervise while she did the layout on my behalf. We dragooned friends into trimming by hand more than one thousand acetate tip-ins, the cost of which I absorbed because the publisher could not afford it. We also faced many frustrating limitations in the software used, and often we had to resort to makeshift solutions. 
The second edition of this book attempts to redress some of these intractable typographic problems that went unresolved in the original printing. Since the work, predicates itself upon an aesthetics of structural perfection, these deficiencies, although minor, have often caused me private concern. Most improvements incorporate changes proposed in 1994 by Katy Chan, but never executed by her because of economic decisions and logistic deadlines imposed by the publisher. 
Whenever possible I have streamlined the design for the sake of a much cleaner, much tighter look. Typos have been corrected. Poems once crowded onto a single page in order to limit the length of the work have expanded to fill more space. I have altered the layout of some pieces in order to accommodate the parameters of the new font, and a few weaker poems have undergone either excision (if their presence seems extraneous) or revision (if their presence seems obligatory).
...

  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:11 PM


  Thanks, Skip.  I actually met Christian a while back but he was doing mostly sound poetry I wasn't getting--plus hanging with a different crowd than mine.  But I'll have to look into his stuff.  

  By the way, my blog entry for today is on the poem of his you brought to our attention--with you acknowledged as its finder, and your dots re-discussed.  It's at http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html.

  --Bob
    From: Skip Fox 
    Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:56 PM


    Bob-



    Yes, come to think of it, Bok would seem to be immediately up your alley. _Crystallography_. Over 150 pages of intelligent work, some with transparent overlays and crystalline or fractalic (?) figures. Also, the pataphysics which he and others have revived from Oulipo days may be of significant interest to you:



    http://nupress.northwestern.edu/title.cfm?ISBN=0-8101-1877-7



    That's his book on the matter, but there is much on the web. (It's not strongly in my flow of interests, but it _is_ interesting.)



    His _Eunoia_ is a brilliant book of constraint based literature:



    http://www.ubu.com/contemp/bok/eunoia_final.html



    Most people do not believe what hs is able to do. Each fascicle has only a single vowel. Each uses 97% of the monovowelic words. Each has a banquet, a sex scene, a perilous sea voyage, etc. Very interesting.



    Skip Fox

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 22 16:17:48 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:17:48 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Christian Boek Crystallography
Message-ID: <008f01c73e6a$c47ab4e0$952ab750@ANNY>


Chatoyant panes

in cathedral
windows flow
too slow
for eyes to see

illuminated
manuscripts
written
on glass pages,

bleeding away
ages of images.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Downward blur
of watercolour
sunsets,

melting 
ink in thin
paraffin walls.

the windshield
dripping 
like raindrops
upon it,
but more
incrementally.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CRYSTALS

A crystal makes a lens through which a Cubist
painter might see the world as it really is.

...
...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From skip at louisiana.edu  Mon Jan 22 17:49:04 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:49:04 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <006601c73e61$7828ad30$21fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <000001c73e77$8a3fb610$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>

It sifts from Leaden Sieves-

It powders all the Wood.

It fills with Alabaster Wool

The Wrinkles of the Road-

 

It makes an Even Face

Of Mountain, and of Plain-

Unbroken Forehead from the East

Unto the East again-

 

It reaches to the Fence-

It wraps it Rail by Rail

Till it is lost in Fleeces-

It deals Celestial Vail

 

To Stump, and Stack-and Stem-

A Summer's empty Room-

Acres of Joints, where Harvests were,

Recordless, but for them-

 

It Ruffles Wrists of Posts

As Ankles of a Queens-

Then stills its Artisans-like Ghosts-

Denying they have been-

 

Dickinson, #311

 

A riddle. Snow, or better, the natural processes which create the snow, is
the answer of course. Anthropomorphic and dynamic (articulating), but it
does fit the simple criteria perhaps.

 

 

Stevens' "The Snow Man" might even work depending on how "inanimate" is
used. It's about non-human "apprehension," which it acknowledges is
impossible. 

 

Olson, by the way, has a great line: "all life is preoccupation with
itself." Perhaps the search for such poetry is to search for a poetry which
is not so simply bound or whose vision is not so obviously human centered.
It seems like Jeffers might have a few as well (besides just sections of
larger pieces), but I can't remember one off hand. Ah well . . .

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Jan 22 17:58:14 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:58:14 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems about inanimate objects only
In-Reply-To: <000001c73e77$8a3fb610$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>
Message-ID: <C1DA9DA6.DEF7%grahamd@ripon.edu>

On 1/22/07 4:49 PM, "Skip Fox" <skip at louisiana.edu> wrote:

>> Stevens? ?The Snow Man? might even work depending on how ?inanimate? is used.
>> It?s about non-human ?apprehension,? which it acknowledges is impossible.
>> -----------------

I'm remembering a book by I think Robert Langbaum, in which he posits that a
lot of modernist poetry about the natural world can be read as a reaction
against Romanticism, specifically the pathetic fallacy.  As I recall
(imperfectly, no doubt!), he takes Stevens's "The Snow Man" as a central
text.

Then there's Pinsky's take on such matters in *The Situation of Poetry*,
where "The Snow Man" appears alongside something by Williams--I'll have to
get to my home shelves to remember which one.  Might be "The Term," I'm
thinking.  In any case, that's a good example of WCW playing with the way
the human mind always wants to personify:

The Term
 
 
A rumpled sheet
Of brown paper
About the length
 
And apparent bulk
Of a man was
Rolling with the 
 
Wind slowly over
And over in 
The street as
 
A car drove down
Upon it and 
Crushed it to
 
The ground. Unlike
A man it rose
Again rolling
 
With the wind over
And over to be as 
It was before.
 
 
William Carlos Williams
 
 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================






From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan 23 07:05:24 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:05:24 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Sappho again
Message-ID: <002401c73ee6$c3cc8830$2a7c3652@ANNY>

for those who might be interested, sent by Max Richards to Poetryetc (I know this is not news):
http://www.depauw.edu/acad/women/Altman.Sappho%27s%20Knees.pdf


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan 23 09:23:24 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:23:24 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees
Message-ID: <c8d.807c4b7.32e7745c@aol.com>

_http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-books21jan21,1,7580597.s
tory?track=rss_ 
(http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-books21jan21,1,7580597.story?track=rss) 
 
The poetry nominees were Daisy Fried for "My Brother Is Getting Arrested  
Again" (University of Pittsburgh Press); Frederick Seidel for "Ooga Booga"  
(Farrar, Straus and Giroux); Miltos Sachtouris for "Poems: 1945-1971"  (Archipelago 
Books); W.D. Snodgrass for "Not for Specialists: New and Selected  Poems" 
(BOA Editions); and Troy Jollimore for "Tom Thomson in Purgatory" (Intuit  
House). 

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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan 23 09:40:36 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:40:36 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hibakusha: Poetry portrays anti-war message
Message-ID: <d5a.87a36d.32e77864@aol.com>

 
_http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/news/20070123p2g00m0fe014000c.html_ 
(http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/news/20070123p2g00m0fe014000c.html)  
"Writing poems is my way of confronting life," he says. 
In "Genkyo," his sixth book of poetry published last autumn, he raises issues 
 ranging from the predicament of atomic bomb survivors living in South Korea 
to  the suffering of Iraqi children afflicted by fallout from depleted uranium 
 bullets. In his view, the Hiroshima tragedy is not over; new atomic victims 
are  joining those of his own generation.
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From tad at opus40.org  Tue Jan 23 10:13:37 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees
References: <c8d.807c4b7.32e7745c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c73f01$0e8d31c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Here's one by Daisy Fried (an excerpt) -- I have a feeling this may have been posted here before, for some reason?

Snodgrass is the 800-pound gorilla here. But this is good work. Tension in the language, words that carry their weight.

 
 
Strike
I. 

When the buses stop running, the union treasurer
walks on bare summer legs, in pink, swell
pink heels, smiling, to the gate where her pal
the union prez will come. The press walks
him in, orbiting him with their hard TV
lights, mikes like fists in his face. They stop;
he keeps walking, like one throwing off 
a robe he doesn't care for any longer,
into the mass of rallying rank and file;
they smack his back, grip his hands, part
like the ocean for Moses; when he reaches her 
and the rest of the gang, he stands at the gate dead center
of the packed horseshoe of seats at city council
chamber's edge. She pats his shoulder when he 
refuses to sit, eyes bugging out, listening 
to council resolve nothing. Rank and file 
surge a little then, excited by their anger
to more anger; their chanting fills the room 
like steel, like polished hardware, no contract, no work,
no contract, no work. It rings the roof. The boy
reporter wanders the room (assignment: get quotes
from the guys, you know, do they really 
support all that grandstanding? wouldn't they rather 
just go back to work?); a union driver 
fixes him with a voice clear because quiet 
under the chanting, explains, hands lain against 
his tee-shirt's union logo, forty-seven 
give-backs, okay, and most illegal, and when 
the reporter interrupts but what about, 
but what about, others join the man patiently 
explaining. Their works sucked under. The city walks.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:23 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees


  http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-books21jan21,1,7580597.story?track=rss

  The poetry nominees were Daisy Fried for "My Brother Is Getting Arrested Again" (University of Pittsburgh Press); Frederick Seidel for "Ooga Booga" (Farrar, Straus and Giroux); Miltos Sachtouris for "Poems: 1945-1971" (Archipelago Books); W.D. Snodgrass for "Not for Specialists: New and Selected Poems" (BOA Editions); and Troy Jollimore for "Tom Thomson in Purgatory" (Intuit House). 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan 23 11:35:41 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:35:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hibakusha: Poetry portrays anti-war message
References: <d5a.87a36d.32e77864@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c73f0c$85fa4f80$2a7c3652@ANNY>

an open smile, probably a great man,
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:40 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Hibakusha: Poetry portrays anti-war message


  http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/news/20070123p2g00m0fe014000c.html

  "Writing poems is my way of confronting life," he says.

  In "Genkyo," his sixth book of poetry published last autumn, he raises issues ranging from the predicament of atomic bomb survivors living in South Korea to the suffering of Iraqi children afflicted by fallout from depleted uranium bullets. In his view, the Hiroshima tragedy is not over; new atomic victims are joining those of his own generation.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 23 11:48:59 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 10:48:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: National Book Critics Circle award nominees
In-Reply-To: <006b01c73f01$0e8d31c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <C1DB989B.DF47%grahamd@ripon.edu>

It's true that Snodgrass ain't exactly hurting for accolades at this point
in his long career, but if I were on the judging committee I'd be hard
pressed to look past such an impressive, varied, bold, and original body of
work for any single collection.  Probably there ought to be two categories
of award, one for single books, another for selected/collected doorstops.

I like Daisy's work a good deal.  What's striking about this year's list is
that there are not one but two entries by poets I've never even heard of.
Does anyone here know anything about Miltos Sachtouris or Troy Jollimore?



----------------------------
On 1/23/07 9:13 AM, "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org> wrote:

> Here's one by Daisy Fried (an excerpt) -- I have a feeling this may have been
> posted here before, for some reason?
>  
> Snodgrass is the 800-pound gorilla here. But this is good work. Tension in the
> language, words that carry their weight.
>  
>  
>  
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  JforJames at aol.com
>>  
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:23  AM
>>  
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book  Critics Circle award nominees
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-books21jan21,1,7580597.s
>> tory?track=rss
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> The poetry nominees were Daisy Fried for "My Brother Is Getting Arrested
>> Again" (University of Pittsburgh Press); Frederick Seidel for "Ooga Booga"
>> (Farrar, Straus and Giroux); Miltos Sachtouris for "Poems: 1945-1971"
>> (Archipelago Books); W.D. Snodgrass for "Not for Specialists: New and
>> Selected  Poems" (BOA Editions); and Troy Jollimore for "Tom Thomson in
>> Purgatory"  (Intuit House).
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing  list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From tad at opus40.org  Tue Jan 23 12:10:02 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:10:02 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: National Book Critics Circle award nominees
References: <C1DB989B.DF47%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00c201c73f11$5285c1c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Re: National Book Critics Circle award nomineesI can't find anything by Sachtouris in English.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:48 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: National Book Critics Circle award nominees


  It's true that Snodgrass ain't exactly hurting for accolades at this point in his long career, but if I were on the judging committee I'd be hard pressed to look past such an impressive, varied, bold, and original body of work for any single collection.  Probably there ought to be two categories of award, one for single books, another for selected/collected doorstops.  

  I like Daisy's work a good deal.  What's striking about this year's list is that there are not one but two entries by poets I've never even heard of.  Does anyone here know anything about Miltos Sachtouris or Troy Jollimore?



  ----------------------------
  On 1/23/07 9:13 AM, "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org> wrote:


    Here's one by Daisy Fried (an excerpt) -- I have a feeling this may have been posted here before, for some reason?
     
    Snodgrass is the 800-pound gorilla here. But this is good work. Tension in the language, words that carry their weight.
     
     
     


      ----- Original Message ----- 
       
      From:  JforJames at aol.com 
       
      To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
       
      Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:23  AM
       
      Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book  Critics Circle award nominees
       


      http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-books21jan21,1,7580597.story?track=rss
       
       
       
      The poetry nominees were Daisy Fried for "My Brother Is Getting Arrested  Again" (University of Pittsburgh Press); Frederick Seidel for "Ooga Booga"  (Farrar, Straus and Giroux); Miltos Sachtouris for "Poems: 1945-1971"  (Archipelago Books); W.D. Snodgrass for "Not for Specialists: New and Selected  Poems" (BOA Editions); and Troy Jollimore for "Tom Thomson in Purgatory"  (Intuit House). 


       

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


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      New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



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    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu  Tue Jan 23 12:35:33 2007
From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:35:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: National Book Critics Circle award nominees
In-Reply-To: <00c201c73f11$5285c1c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <C1DB989B.DF47%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<00c201c73f11$5285c1c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <45B64765.70709@medicine.nodak.edu>

TheOldMole wrote:
> I can't find anything by Sachtouris in English.
The award would be posthumous; Sachtouris died in 2005. If you go to 
greece.poetryinternational.org  (no www in front) and click on his name 
in the list of poets, that will in turn offer you a set of his poems 
with facing translations in Engish. Here's one of the translations:

AUTUMN

What's the girl looking for
in the darkness of the chair?
quickly
as night falls in autumn
she undresses
with clouds before her eyes
with the rain inside her head
with the needle in her heart
she removes the stockings
removes the flowers
discards the halo

outside the time's leaves
are dyed in blood

    --- by Miltos Sachtouris (1919-2005)


Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 23 12:35:55 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:35:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees
In-Reply-To: <00c201c73f11$5285c1c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <C1DBA39B.DF4D%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Hmmm.  I wasn't aware that translations were eligible for the NBCC.


-----------------------
On 1/23/07 11:10 AM, "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org> wrote:

> I can't find anything by Sachtouris in English.
> 
> 
> 
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  David Graham <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
>>  
>> To: NewPoetry <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>>  
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:48  AM
>>  
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: National Book  Critics Circle award nominees
>>  
>> 
>> It's true that Snodgrass ain't exactly hurting for  accolades at this point
>> in his long career, but if I were on the judging  committee I'd be hard
>> pressed to look past such an impressive, varied, bold,  and original body of
>> work for any single collection.  Probably  there ought to be two categories
>> of award, one for single books, another for  selected/collected doorstops.
>> 
>> I like Daisy's work a good deal.   What's striking about this year's list is
>> that there are not one but two  entries by poets I've never even heard of.
>> Does anyone here know  anything about Miltos Sachtouris or Troy Jollimore?
>> 

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan 23 13:20:20 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:20:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees
References: <c8d.807c4b7.32e7745c@aol.com>
	<006b01c73f01$0e8d31c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <00a701c73f1b$24272300$2a7c3652@ANNY>

There are congratulations all over the WOM-PO for Daisy Fried!
  From: TheOldMole 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:13 PM


  Here's one by Daisy Fried (an excerpt) -- I have a feeling this may have been posted here before, for some reason?

  Snodgrass is the 800-pound gorilla here. But this is good work. Tension in the language, words that carry their weight.


   
  Strike 
  I. 

  When the buses stop running, the union treasurer
  walks on bare summer legs, in pink, swell
  pink heels, smiling, to the gate where her pal
  the union prez will come. The press walks
  him in, orbiting him with their hard TV
  lights, mikes like fists in his face. They stop;
  he keeps walking, like one throwing off 
  a robe he doesn't care for any longer,
  into the mass of rallying rank and file;
  they smack his back, grip his hands, part
  like the ocean for Moses; when he reaches her 
  and the rest of the gang, he stands at the gate dead center
  of the packed horseshoe of seats at city council
  chamber's edge. She pats his shoulder when he 
  refuses to sit, eyes bugging out, listening 
  to council resolve nothing. Rank and file 
  surge a little then, excited by their anger
  to more anger; their chanting fills the room 
  like steel, like polished hardware, no contract, no work,
  no contract, no work. It rings the roof. The boy
  reporter wanders the room (assignment: get quotes
  from the guys, you know, do they really 
  support all that grandstanding? wouldn't they rather 
  just go back to work?); a union driver 
  fixes him with a voice clear because quiet 
  under the chanting, explains, hands lain against 
  his tee-shirt's union logo, forty-seven 
  give-backs, okay, and most illegal, and when 
  the reporter interrupts but what about, 
  but what about, others join the man patiently 
  explaining. Their works sucked under. The city walks.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: JforJames at aol.com 
    To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
    Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:23 AM
    Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees


    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-books21jan21,1,7580597.story?track=rss

    The poetry nominees were Daisy Fried for "My Brother Is Getting Arrested Again" (University of Pittsburgh Press); Frederick Seidel for "Ooga Booga" (Farrar, Straus and Giroux); Miltos Sachtouris for "Poems: 1945-1971" (Archipelago Books); W.D. Snodgrass for "Not for Specialists: New and Selected Poems" (BOA Editions); and Troy Jollimore for "Tom Thomson in Purgatory" (Intuit House). 

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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan 23 13:46:56 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:46:56 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: National Book Critics Circle award nominees
Message-ID: <c94.7ed8adf.32e7b220@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/23/2007 11:49:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:

Miltos Sachtouris or Troy  Jollimore?



Never heard of 'em? But it's getting harder and harder
to keep tabs on the ever mushrooming poetry scene.
Reading Neil Astley (Bloodaxe Books) complaint about
the plight of poetry publishing/bookselling made me think that the
trouble is not with poetry publishing...the problem, if there
is one, is that whole 'market' (and I use that word loosely 
because of the general lack of money involved) has decentralized 
as economists say. It's gone from a handful of major publishers
with few more secondary publishers, to poetry publishers 
in the thousands, of all sizes, but mostly small presses
(less than 5 titles per year). I wonder if 30 years ago, you'd
ever see a book from a U. of Pitt Press or a BOA, 
or an Archipelago (I own a lot of poetry books and I'm pretty
sure I don't own a single copy form this press) on a nominee 
list for a major book award?
 
Neither the few large houses nor the many mom & pop 
small presses are outselling each other on per title basis, I'd bet. 
That is, if you took FSG's per title sales average, for example,
and you tossed out the best seller and the low seller on
their poetry list, I'd venture the average #  of sales per title 
released is not much greater than what you'd find at any
of hundreds of small presses, like Intuit House (a rather 
obscure small press from the midwest...that seems 
to be an outgrowth of a small litmag).
_http://www.margiereview.com/INTUIT%20HOUSE/MARGIEVol4.html_ 
(http://www.margiereview.com/INTUIT%20HOUSE/MARGIEVol4.html) 
 
Where the marketing budget and distribution clout matters
most is when it gets behind a poet that has already established
'a name', like a Derek Walcott or a Billy Collins. But I'd wager that
all the marketing support and wide distribution in the  world,
wouldn't move the needle on book sales for a more obscure poet 
like Frederick Seidel. So in that way, it hardly matters anymore
whether a book gets released by FSG or Intuit House. Which
is bad news for mid-sized publishers, like Bloodaxe, who have 
devoted much of their lists to poetry, and probably have paid 
staff to the support. They're trying to stay afloat and trying 
to keep up the big houses, but they are being dragged down 
by an undertow of thousands of competing titles coming out 
from below by the small and even flyspeck presses. 
 
Anyway, it's a business problem...not a poetry problem,
per se as Astley had framed it.
Finnegan, MBA 
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 23 14:47:43 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:47:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees
In-Reply-To: <45B64765.70709@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <C1DBC27F.DF61%grahamd@ripon.edu>


Troy Jollimore's a first-book poet from a rather obscure press, so I guess
it's not surprising that many haven't heard of him before.  He's a
philosopher by trade, it seems.

Googling about, I discovered this excerpt from his book, which apparently
contains persona poems about a character named Tom Thomson.  Blurbed by
Billy Collins, who makes reference to Berryman.  I can see some Berrymanic
touches in the syntax, at least:

http://www.csuchico.edu/~tj17/tjpoemttinlove.htm


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From elemenope at icubed.com  Tue Jan 23 19:03:19 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:03:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Day's Tit is Rendered Nada by My Tat
In-Reply-To: <200701222222.l0MMM2t6024550@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701222222.l0MMM2t6024550@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2186.71.206.215.252.1169596999.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

This is a gratuitous accusation:

I'm also an admirer of your consitution; it's one of the reasons I
>> > want a European Constitution. It's a pity that this administration
>> > can't share my enthusiasm for the same document.

It can be refuted as easily as it was made: The writer doesn't
know what he is talking about.

Again, he makes an announcement but hasn't any education in Constitutional
theory or history.  He just assumes he is right because he assumes he is.

But seeming is not is.  And accusing without evidence is merely gratuitous
assertion.  Constitutional law has NEVER been violated by the Bush
administration, but it was continuously violated by the Clintonistas.  No
matter how fulsomely Rockefeller blares about international wiretaps, the
only violation of the Constitution was the Senator's releasing to the
press of top secret papers and plans, a violation which ought to lead to
his impeachment.  But, he is a DemoKrat and for DemoKrats the law is
different.

For instance, the Chief Executive, William Jefferson Blythe Clinton, who
may very well be the bastard son of a transplanted Arkansan Rockefeller
who sired him in Bubba's Mama's brothel, lied under oath to a Federal
Judge.
This is a violation of the Constitution.

As this interlocutor's nation's presumptive next potentate announces that
he will not assume the role of "Defender of The Faith" but instead be
"Defender of Faith," we see BritLand unravel slowly as a city here, a
village there, falls under the thrall of Sharia Law.  And still this
interlocutor assumes some sort of superiority over us former colonialists,
claiming he understands our Constitution.

Tell me, O Wise One, by what agency is Amendment One obtained by those who
call themselves the American people?  Answer this question directly and
without ambiguity.  Again, to put the question country simple and in broad
daylight: Americans enjoy liberty to pursue happiness.  Whence does such
liberty issue?  Don't, please, answer a question in response, I am
requesting a straight, quick, true response. There are posters on this
list who can answer (Linda Sue Grimes). Hold fire until this admirer of
all things Madisonian-Jeffersonian-Masonian-Franklinian answers.

RD

P.S.

Mr. Day doesn't speak for great Englishmen I know like Colonel Harry
Hodgson of Aldershod, England.  Such soldiers know exactly what animates
our own soldiers and it has nothing to do with Mr. Day's absurd
accusations, refuted as easily as they are launched by simply declaring
his accusations worthless and absurd.  Day's tit is rendered nada by my
tat.



From tad at opus40.org  Tue Jan 23 19:34:14 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:34:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees
References: <C1DBC27F.DF61%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <01a701c73f4f$60341220$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

National Book Critics Circle award nomineesI dunno about Jollimore. Does anyone have a problem with what appears to me a total breakdown of scansion in a few lines? And enjambments that wreck the rhythm, forcing the lines to be read as singsong?

I'm still with Daisy and Snodgrass.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 2:47 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Critics Circle award nominees



  Troy Jollimore's a first-book poet from a rather obscure press, so I guess it's not surprising that many haven't heard of him before.  He's a philosopher by trade, it seems.

  Googling about, I discovered this excerpt from his book, which apparently contains persona poems about a character named Tom Thomson.  Blurbed by Billy Collins, who makes reference to Berryman.  I can see some Berrymanic touches in the syntax, at least:

  http://www.csuchico.edu/~tj17/tjpoemttinlove.htm


  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry mailing list
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Tue Jan 23 21:15:00 2007
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:15:00 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Day's Tit is Rendered Nada by My Tat
Message-ID: <ca7.7d57983.32e81b24@aol.com>

It would be nice to have one corner of the internet not populated by Bush  
apologistas. But it would be nice if I was twenty years yougner as well.
 
 
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Jan 23 21:24:31 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:24:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Day's Tit is Rendered Nada by My Tat
In-Reply-To: <2186.71.206.215.252.1169596999.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
References: <200701222222.l0MMM2t6024550@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<2186.71.206.215.252.1169596999.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>
Message-ID: <3BE35A9F-9028-43D4-AD7C-C8A41448A423@ripon.edu>


On Jan 23, 2007, at 6:03 PM, elemenope at icubed.com wrote:

> For instance, the Chief Executive, William Jefferson Blythe  
> Clinton, who
> may very well be the bastard son of a transplanted Arkansan  
> Rockefeller
> who sired him in Bubba's Mama's brothel,


This sure is the kind of insightful commentary on poetry & poetics  
that I come to NewPo for.   Don't know about anyone else, but I'm  
certainly convinced by it.

Reminds me of the old joke:

Man:  "Hey, little lady, do you fuck?"
Woman:  "Not until now, you smooth-talking son-of-a-gun!"

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Jan 23 23:07:50 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:07:50 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] the list and digressions
Message-ID: <ce9.7d53cd5.32e83596@aol.com>

I say this as a member of the list and not as management...
When something is spouted on this list that has nothing whatsoever
to do with our nominal topic (poetry, contemporary poetry),
please resist the urge to respond. 
 
Though I may not follow each thread with due care, as management
I'll say this: If someone forgets what the list is here for and he (it's  
never a she) 
begins to use to the list as his soapbox, without the provocation of  counter
remarks and heckling, management will kick the soapbox out from under
the offending party.
Finnegan
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 05:15:17 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:15:17 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] the list and digressions
In-Reply-To: <ce9.7d53cd5.32e83596@aol.com>
References: <ce9.7d53cd5.32e83596@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480701240215x7b76fef9n2ae3ac110520f276@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

Yes, half way through my thread with Linda I thought, um, I shouldn't
be doing this, it's way off-topic. I shall show more restraint in
future.

I shall reply to Mr Dillon via my blog.

Apologies.

Roger

On 1/24/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I say this as a member of the list and not as management...
> When something is spouted on this list that has nothing whatsoever
> to do with our nominal topic (poetry, contemporary poetry),
> please resist the urge to respond.
>
> Though I may not follow each thread with due care, as management
> I'll say this: If someone forgets what the list is here for and he (it's
> never a she)
> begins to use to the list as his soapbox, without the provocation of counter
> remarks and heckling, management will kick the soapbox out from under
> the offending party.
> Finnegan
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."


From rsillima at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 09:57:31 2007
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:57:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Of late on Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <123580.74248.qm@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS


Daisy Fried 
should win
the National Book Critics Circle Award
by acclamation

Confusing character transference
with reading

Nathaniel Mackey?s
Splay Anthem
has to be read aloud

IFLIFE, the poem,
is Bob Perelman?s love-hate story
with the whole of poetry

A guide to Bob Perelman?s
Guide to Homage to Sextus Propertius

IFLIFE, the book,
a dizzying display of mastery


http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 24 10:41:24 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:41:24 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Ryszard Kapuscinski (1932-2007)
Message-ID: <EA13528F-964A-41C3-9615-4177F4FC0B99@earthlink.net>

January 24, 2007

Ryszard Kapuscinski, Polish Writer of Shimmering Allegories and News,  
Dies at 74

By MICHAEL T. KAUFMAN
Ryszard Kapuscinski, a globe-trotting journalist from Poland whose  
writing, often tinged with magical realism, brought him critical  
acclaim and a wide international readership, died yesterday in  
Warsaw. He was 74.

His death, at a hospital, was reported by PAP, the Polish news agency  
for which he had worked. No cause was given, but he was known to have  
had cancer.

Mr. Kapuscinski (pronounced ka-poos-CHIN-ski) spent some four decades  
observing and writing about conflict throughout the developing world.  
He witnessed 27 coups and revolutions. He spent his working days  
gathering information for the terse dispatches he sent to PAP, often  
from places like Ougadougou or Zanzibar.

At night, he worked on longer, descriptive essays with phantasmagoric  
touches that went far beyond the details of the day?s events, using  
allegory and metaphors to convey what was happening.

?It?s not that the story is not getting expressed? in ordinary news  
reports, he said in an interview. ?It?s what surrounds the story. The  
climate, the atmosphere of the street, the feeling of the people, the  
gossip of the town; the smell; the thousands and thousands of  
elements that are part of the events you read about in 600 words of  
your morning paper.?

 From the 1970s on, these articles appeared in a series of books that  
quickly made Mr. Kapuscinski Poland?s best-known foreign  
correspondent. They later drew international attention in  
translation. The books included ?The Soccer War,? which dealt with  
Latin American conflicts; ?Another Day of Life,? about Angola?s civil  
war; ?Shah of Shahs,? about the rise and fall of Iran?s last monarch;  
and ?Imperium,? an account of his travels through Russia and its  
neighbors after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The book that introduced Mr. Kapuscinski to readers and critics  
beyond Poland was a slim one, ostensibly about Ethiopia, which he  
wrote in 1978 and which appeared in English five years later under  
the title ?The Emperor.?

Subtitled ?Downfall of an Autocrat? (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich), the  
book on one level portrayed the lapsed life of Haile Selassie?s  
imperial court by citing the recollections of palace servants, like  
the man responsible for cleaning the shoes of visiting dignitaries.

A number of critics noted that despite the book?s documentary form,  
it provided an allegory of absolutist power everywhere. Writing in  
The New Yorker, John Updike said the book emphasized ?the inevitable  
tendency of a despot, be he king, ward boss, or dictator, to prefer  
loyalty to ability in his subordinates, and to seek safety in  
stagnation.?

His fame growing, Mr. Kapuscinski began writing for The New Yorker,  
The New York Times Magazine and the British journal Granta.

Though each of Mr. Kapuscinski?s books was distinct, they all shared  
a sense of shimmering reality. There was, for instance, his account  
of the departure of Portuguese settlers from Angola as independence  
and civil war settled on the country. He described how everything of  
value, from cars to refrigerators, was leaping into boxes and  
floating off to Europe.

In preparing these articles he never took notes and used memory to  
stimulate his poetic imagination. In ?Imperium,? he evoked the wintry  
cold of the old Soviet penal colonies by quoting a schoolgirl who  
said she could tell who had passed by her house by the shape of the  
tunnels they had left in the crystallized air.

Mr. Kapuscinski, the son of schoolteachers, was born March 4, 1932,  
in Pinsk, a city now in Belarus. In an interview in Granta in 1987,  
he remembered Pinsk as a polyglot city of Jews, Poles, Russians,  
Belarussians, Ukrainians and Armenians, all of whom were called  
Poleshuks.

?They were a people without a nation and without, therefore, a  
national identity,? he said. That quality, along with the poverty of  
Pinsk, inspired his empathy for the third world.

?I have always rediscovered my home, rediscovered Pinsk, in Africa,  
in Asia, in Latin America,? he said.

Mr. Kapuscinski was in elementary school when the Nazis marched into  
western Poland and the Soviets took the eastern part in 1939 at the  
outset of World War II. His family eventually made its way to Warsaw,  
where Mr. Kapuscinski?s father fought with resistance groups.

Mr. Kapuscinski received a master?s degree in history from the  
University of Warsaw. On graduation he joined the journal Sztandar  
Mlodych, The Flag of Youth, a Communist publication, and quickly  
became embroiled in the upheavals of 1956, when hard-line Stalinists  
were being challenged within the party.

Mr. Kapuscinski wrote an article describing the misery and despair of  
steel workers at a new steel plant outside of Krakow that the party  
bosses had extolled as a showpiece of proletarian culture.

The article provoked such an attack from the hard-liners that Mr.  
Kapuscinski was fired and forced into hiding. After party reformers  
later prevailed, however, the young journalist?s findings were  
confirmed by a blue-ribbon task force, and he was awarded Poland?s  
Golden Cross of Merit for the same article that had gotten him into  
trouble.

In 1962, PAP, the news agency, appointed him its only correspondent  
in the third world. He came to know Patrice Lumumba in the Congo, Ben  
Bella in Algeria, Che Guevara in Cuba and Idi Amin in Uganda. He  
covered the bloody uprising on Zanzibar in 1964 and the war between  
El Salvador and Honduras in 1970. He was in southern Angola in 1975  
when South African forces invaded.

He would travel for months at a time and then return to the two-room  
apartment in Warsaw that he shared with his wife, Alicja Mielczarek,  
a pediatrician. His daughter, Zofia, emigrated to Vancouver, British  
Columbia, in the 1970s. There was no immediate information on his  
survivors.

In 1981, after he had committed himself to the Solidarity trade union  
movement, the government of Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski stripped him of  
his journalistic credentials. He then began working with underground  
publishers, contributing poems and supporting the dissident culture.

Eventually, as his reputation abroad grew, foreign royalties and  
commissions enabled him to move to his own house in central Warsaw.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, he traveled to Moscow,  
Siberia, Georgia and Armenia, observing life there and recording the  
ravages of the Soviet era. Those travels yielded ?Imperium,?  
published in the United States by Knopf in 1994.

?There is, I admit, a certain egoism, in what I write,? he once said,  
?always complaining about the heat or the hunger or the pain I feel.  
But it is terribly important to have what I write authenticated by  
its being lived. You could call it, I suppose, personal reportage,  
because the author is always present. I sometimes call it literature  
by foot.?


"A paranoid is someone who knows a little
  of what's going on."
                      --William S. Burroughs
Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org






From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 10:56:53 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] New @ MiPOesias
In-Reply-To: <944105.56672.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070124155653.10426.qmail@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

WITH SNIPPETS:
   
   
  Andrew Demack ? ?Our sperm medicinally coffined.?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/demcak_andrew.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Erik Sweet ? ?But my ideas are in a car, moving away from here 
 ?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/sweet_erik.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Todd Burritt ? ?
the blank page means 
?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/burritt_todd.htm  
   
  ~~~~~~~ 
   
  Michael Parker reviews ?Wanton Textiles?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/parker_michael_wantontextitles.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Elisa Gabbert  and Kathleen Rooney -- ?I have a bruise on my thigh that looks like a galaxy 
?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/gabbert_rooney.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Alexander Dickow ? ?I'll be had a disparity/of rubicund improprieties
?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/dickow_alexander.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Gina Abelkop ? ?But what is it? Slide your hand in like a ladle
?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/abelkop_gina.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Mike Young ? ?you should call your mother before/we are invaded by the ? North Korea iamb? ... ?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/young_mike.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Shafer Hall and John Cotter ? ?When I walk home at night, the people hidden in their houses speak to me.?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/cotter_hall.htm 
   
  ~~~~~~~
    
  TaraShea Nesbit ? ?Moth orchids.  Desire.?
  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/nesbit_tarashea.htm
   
  ~~~~~~~
   
  Thanks for stopping in!
   
  http://www.mipoeisas.com  
  http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com/  
  _______
   
   

 
---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
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From mheffer at uark.edu  Wed Jan 24 15:37:22 2007
From: mheffer at uark.edu (Michael Heffernan)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:37:22 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Day's Tit is Rendered Nada by My Tat
In-Reply-To: <ca7.7d57983.32e81b24@aol.com>
References: <ca7.7d57983.32e81b24@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e79ad0bbe307.45b76f22@uark.edu>

Al;

Believe it or not I've been wanting to get in touch with you about this, and about the New-Poetry list in general (basically to ask you how you can stand it); but first I thought I would try to write something and have it posted there, and I found out I was not able to do that, so I had to go thru a process to get myself reinstated for posting purposes.  It turns out they had refused to post anything from me, because the email address I use here at the University had changed, years ago, so it no longer identified me to their computer.
So much for lurker status.  If you try to unlurk, in certain circumstances, you get obliviated.
I'm with you on this, as I am most other issues.  Who is this elemenope person (RD) anyway?  Needs to be dealt with, probably by silence.  Though I guess Paul Lake is for it.  Poor mug. 
See you in Atlanta?
Michael Heffernan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com 
Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:15 pm 
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Day's Tit is Rendered Nada by My Tat 
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 

> It would be nice to have one corner of the internet not populated 
> by Bush  
> apologistas. But it would be nice if I was twenty years yougner as 
> well. 
> 
> 
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Jan 24 16:04:09 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:04:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org is pleased to
	announce its 2007 Issue
Message-ID: <005e01c73ffb$3327b550$defad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

As part of what follows, I thought I'd pass on this news.  

Subject: BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org is pleased to announce its 2007 Issue


BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org  is pleased to announce its 2007 Issue. 

In Remembrance of Ed Dorn: Guest Editor Dale Smith includes perspectives from John Herndon, Stefan Hyner, Reno Lauro, Alice Notley, Richard Owens, Claudia Pisano and Dale Smith. Plus, Feature Chapbook: Low Coups and Haut Coups by Edward Dorn, Illustrated by Nancy Victoria Davis.

THE WAR PAPERS: Poisoned Wheat by Michael McClure. Essays on War and Art by Murat Nemat-Nejat, John Bradley, John Beer, Philip Metres and David-Baptiste Chirot. Also includes Halvard Johnson's Mini-Anthology  "Death on All Fronts" with Dan Waber, Hannah Thomassen, Bill Wunder, Steve Dalachinsky, Charlotte Mandel, Crag Hill, Sara Birl, Kenneth Wolman, Sybil Kollar, Allen Bramhall, Lanny Quarles, Adam Fieled, Harriet Zinnes, Kent Johnson, Catherine Daly, Edward Field, Harry Ross, James Penha, James Cervantes, Larissa Shmailo, J F Quackenbush, Bob Brueckl, Hugh Seidman, Philip Metres, Diana Manister, Michael Heller, Jessy Randall, Michael Rothenberg, Peter Ciccariello, Hal Sirowitz, Jan Clausen, Jordan Stempleman, Frederick Pollack, Tony Trigilio, Skip Fox, Tom Savage, Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore, David Stone, Geer Austin, Barry Spacks, Sparrow, David Plumb, Joseph Somoza, John M. Bennett, Rochelle Ratner, Christopher Levenson, Glenn Bach, George Wallace, David Howard, Richard Kostelanetz, mIEKAL aND.

Essays and Letters: Roma Amor by Allan Graubard (0.8 meg Adobe Acrobat file), Joel Weishaus on Danger on the Peaks by Gary Snyder, an excerpt from What's Your Idea of a Good Time? by Bill Berkson & Bernadette Mayer, Satori Kitty Roshi Style by Keith Kumasen Abbott, Linear/Nonlinear by Tom Hibbard.

Blends & Bridges: For a few weeks in the spring of 2006, Blends and Bridges, an exhibit of a wide range of artworks from all over the world combining text and graphics was on view in Cleveland. All the works in that exhibit are now reproduced here, with a short over-view, and other comments by the exhibit's co-curator, Bob Grumman.

Your New Face: Poet/Artist Collaborations, Guest Editor, Vincent Katz includes Augusto de Campos,  Alix Lambert, Juan Manuel Bonet, Alejandro Corujeira, Todd Colby, Elizabeth Zechel, Myung Mi Kim,  Norma Cole, Barry Schwabsky,  Maria Morganti, Rosanna Warren, James McGarrell, Jeremy Sigler, Jessica Stockholder, Jerome Rothenberg,  Susan Bee, Gerold Sp?th, Josef Felix M?ller, Bill Berkson, Colter Jacobsen, Kathleen Fraser, Hermine Ford, Anne Waldman, Donna Dennis, Vincent Katz, Alex Katz.

Mail Art: A Retrospective of Publication Work by Karl Young, Part 2 discusses d.a.levy, lettrism and networking; printing presses and mail art;Time and the Mail Art network (a general history of Mail Art); Stamp Art by Joel Lipman and Rafael Jesus Martinez; Solos and Choruses in Correspondence Art: the Single and Group Work of K.S. Ernst, Marilyn R. Rosenberg, and David Cole;The International Shadows Project; 14 Years of Collaborations by Reid Woodand. 

Big and Smaller Bridges: Guest Editor, Thomas Devaney: includes Chris Edgar, Eileen Myles, Raphael Rubenstein, Jen Hofer, Michael Scharf, Kim Lambright, Caitlin Grace McDonnell, Charles Borkhuis, Hassen, Wil Hallgren, Joseph Massey, Marcella Durand, Alan Gilbert, Amy King, Ian Keenan, Ish Klein, Sharon Mesmer, Kevin Varrone, Erik Sweet.

process: A Tribute to Richard Denner, Guest Editor, Jonathan Penton includes Johnny Little, Gabriela Anaya Valdepe?a, Eve West Bessier,  Lee Harris, Belle Randall, and Jonathan Penton.

Poetry: Ira Cohen, Ray DiPalma, Arpine Grenier, Ben Gellman, two plays by Janis Butler Holm, Jane Joritz-Nakagawa, Michaela Kahn, Rodney Nelson, Jeffrey Side, Sandra Simonds, Anne Tardos, Mike Topp, Mike Tuggle, Mark Young.

Fiction: Guest Editor, Vernon Frazer includes Joe Clifford,  Richard Denner, Kane X. Faucher, Skip Fox, Anne Germanacos,  Mark Mazer, Jim Rader,  Doug Rice, Lou Rowan, Ron Singer, Allen Wasserman.

Art: Rodney Artiles, Amy Evans McClure and Jim Spitzer.

Little Mags: Jonathan Penton takes a look at Home Planet News, House Organ, Kickass Review, Moonlit, Plantarchy, Poesy, Spaltung, Versal and Xerolage.

Reviews and Interviews:  Debra DeSalvo interviewed by Wanda Phipps, Vernon Frazer interviewed by Ric Carfagna, Kent Johnson interviewed by Pedja Kojovic, Judith Malina with Hanon Reznikov interviewed by Will Swofford, Allan Graubard reviews Sunrise in Armageddon by Will Alexander, Louise Landes Levi reviews Pyramid of Fire by John Major Jenkins and Marty Matz, Mary Jo Malo reviews AsEverWas: Memoirs of a Beat Survivor by Hammond Guthrie, Jorge Rodriguez-Miralles reviews Flock & Shadow by Michael Hettich, Leverett T. Smith, Jr. reviews Pagan Days by Michael Rumaker.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Jan 24 16:19:12 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:19:12 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org is pleased
	toannounce its 2007 Issue
References: <005e01c73ffb$3327b550$defad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <004301c73ffd$4b66c2d0$36d73152@ANNY>

Yes, congratulations to you tooooo!
Big Boy Bob Grumman You Are!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:04 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org is pleased toannounce its 2007 Issue


  As part of what follows, I thought I'd pass on this news.  

  Subject: BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org is pleased to announce its 2007 Issue


  BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org  is pleased to announce its 2007 Issue. 

  In Remembrance of Ed Dorn: Guest Editor Dale Smith includes perspectives from John Herndon, Stefan Hyner, Reno Lauro, Alice Notley, Richard Owens, Claudia Pisano and Dale Smith. Plus, Feature Chapbook: Low Coups and Haut Coups by Edward Dorn, Illustrated by Nancy Victoria Davis.

  THE WAR PAPERS: Poisoned Wheat by Michael McClure. Essays on War and Art by Murat Nemat-Nejat, John Bradley, John Beer, Philip Metres and David-Baptiste Chirot. Also includes Halvard Johnson's Mini-Anthology  "Death on All Fronts" with Dan Waber, Hannah Thomassen, Bill Wunder, Steve Dalachinsky, Charlotte Mandel, Crag Hill, Sara Birl, Kenneth Wolman, Sybil Kollar, Allen Bramhall, Lanny Quarles, Adam Fieled, Harriet Zinnes, Kent Johnson, Catherine Daly, Edward Field, Harry Ross, James Penha, James Cervantes, Larissa Shmailo, J F Quackenbush, Bob Brueckl, Hugh Seidman, Philip Metres, Diana Manister, Michael Heller, Jessy Randall, Michael Rothenberg, Peter Ciccariello, Hal Sirowitz, Jan Clausen, Jordan Stempleman, Frederick Pollack, Tony Trigilio, Skip Fox, Tom Savage, Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore, David Stone, Geer Austin, Barry Spacks, Sparrow, David Plumb, Joseph Somoza, John M. Bennett, Rochelle Ratner, Christopher Levenson, Glenn Bach, George Wallace, David Howard, Richard Kostelanetz, mIEKAL aND.

  Essays and Letters: Roma Amor by Allan Graubard (0.8 meg Adobe Acrobat file), Joel Weishaus on Danger on the Peaks by Gary Snyder, an excerpt from What's Your Idea of a Good Time? by Bill Berkson & Bernadette Mayer, Satori Kitty Roshi Style by Keith Kumasen Abbott, Linear/Nonlinear by Tom Hibbard.

  Blends & Bridges: For a few weeks in the spring of 2006, Blends and Bridges, an exhibit of a wide range of artworks from all over the world combining text and graphics was on view in Cleveland. All the works in that exhibit are now reproduced here, with a short over-view, and other comments by the exhibit's co-curator, Bob Grumman.

  Your New Face: Poet/Artist Collaborations, Guest Editor, Vincent Katz includes Augusto de Campos,  Alix Lambert, Juan Manuel Bonet, Alejandro Corujeira, Todd Colby, Elizabeth Zechel, Myung Mi Kim,  Norma Cole, Barry Schwabsky,  Maria Morganti, Rosanna Warren, James McGarrell, Jeremy Sigler, Jessica Stockholder, Jerome Rothenberg,  Susan Bee, Gerold Sp?th, Josef Felix M?ller, Bill Berkson, Colter Jacobsen, Kathleen Fraser, Hermine Ford, Anne Waldman, Donna Dennis, Vincent Katz, Alex Katz.

  Mail Art: A Retrospective of Publication Work by Karl Young, Part 2 discusses d.a.levy, lettrism and networking; printing presses and mail art;Time and the Mail Art network (a general history of Mail Art); Stamp Art by Joel Lipman and Rafael Jesus Martinez; Solos and Choruses in Correspondence Art: the Single and Group Work of K.S. Ernst, Marilyn R. Rosenberg, and David Cole;The International Shadows Project; 14 Years of Collaborations by Reid Woodand. 

  Big and Smaller Bridges: Guest Editor, Thomas Devaney: includes Chris Edgar, Eileen Myles, Raphael Rubenstein, Jen Hofer, Michael Scharf, Kim Lambright, Caitlin Grace McDonnell, Charles Borkhuis, Hassen, Wil Hallgren, Joseph Massey, Marcella Durand, Alan Gilbert, Amy King, Ian Keenan, Ish Klein, Sharon Mesmer, Kevin Varrone, Erik Sweet.

  process: A Tribute to Richard Denner, Guest Editor, Jonathan Penton includes Johnny Little, Gabriela Anaya Valdepe?a, Eve West Bessier,  Lee Harris, Belle Randall, and Jonathan Penton.

  Poetry: Ira Cohen, Ray DiPalma, Arpine Grenier, Ben Gellman, two plays by Janis Butler Holm, Jane Joritz-Nakagawa, Michaela Kahn, Rodney Nelson, Jeffrey Side, Sandra Simonds, Anne Tardos, Mike Topp, Mike Tuggle, Mark Young.

  Fiction: Guest Editor, Vernon Frazer includes Joe Clifford,  Richard Denner, Kane X. Faucher, Skip Fox, Anne Germanacos,  Mark Mazer, Jim Rader,  Doug Rice, Lou Rowan, Ron Singer, Allen Wasserman.

  Art: Rodney Artiles, Amy Evans McClure and Jim Spitzer.

  Little Mags: Jonathan Penton takes a look at Home Planet News, House Organ, Kickass Review, Moonlit, Plantarchy, Poesy, Spaltung, Versal and Xerolage.

  Reviews and Interviews:  Debra DeSalvo interviewed by Wanda Phipps, Vernon Frazer interviewed by Ric Carfagna, Kent Johnson interviewed by Pedja Kojovic, Judith Malina with Hanon Reznikov interviewed by Will Swofford, Allan Graubard reviews Sunrise in Armageddon by Will Alexander, Louise Landes Levi reviews Pyramid of Fire by John Major Jenkins and Marty Matz, Mary Jo Malo reviews AsEverWas: Memoirs of a Beat Survivor by Hammond Guthrie, Jorge Rodriguez-Miralles reviews Flock & Shadow by Michael Hettich, Leverett T. Smith, Jr. reviews Pagan Days by Michael Rumaker.

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Jan 24 16:35:35 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:35:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: BIG BRIDGE www.bigbridge.org is
	pleasedtoannounce its 2007 Issue
References: <005e01c73ffb$3327b550$defad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<004301c73ffd$4b66c2d0$36d73152@ANNY>
Message-ID: <007a01c73fff$97561540$defad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Yes, congratulations to you tooooo!

Big Boy Bob Grumman You Are!


Aw, shucks, Miz Anny. . . .

--Bob
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From debra at debradicembre.com  Wed Jan 24 17:30:42 2007
From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:30:42 +1100
Subject: [New-Poetry] the list and digressions
References: <ce9.7d53cd5.32e83596@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004101c74007$52fe1340$0301010a@galaxy>

Here here.
Although I  guess I should have resisited the urge to respond!
DD
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:07 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] the list and digressions


  I say this as a member of the list and not as management...
  When something is spouted on this list that has nothing whatsoever
  to do with our nominal topic (poetry, contemporary poetry),
  please resist the urge to respond. 

  Though I may not follow each thread with due care, as management
  I'll say this: If someone forgets what the list is here for and he (it's never a she) 
  begins to use to the list as his soapbox, without the provocation of counter
  remarks and heckling, management will kick the soapbox out from under
  the offending party.
  Finnegan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Jan 24 17:45:18 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:45:18 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
Message-ID: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>

I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy Jollimore's book,
and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms, but what's
struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other archaisms,
side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why comparisons
have been made to Berryman, accordingly.

Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:

"Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
to overcome, to do without, but could,
he found, not; nor cigarettes, neither.  He stuck
to them like glue. Opinions stuck to him
and drugged him down into the muck.  Always asked he
what lay so deep down there ? well now he knows..."

I just find many phrasings very odd:  "He tried to learn/ to overcome, to do
without, but could/ he found, not; nor cigarettes neither."  I'm trying and
failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be productive.

And:  "Always asked he"--which is right out of the Days of Yore, isn't it?
I mean, he's not thee- and thou-ing, but you expect he will any moment.

This sort of thing runs all through the poems I've seen.  It's obviously a
very deliberate part of his style:

"Trusts himself less, but more than others do;
when he an elevator boards, they stand
off to one side and keep an eye on him,
suspicious-like; "

And:  "And what could tell he to another ear?"

And:

"And knows he therefore will not one red cent
get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."

I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read the book.  Are such excerpts
characteristic?  



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================






From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 17:52:26 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:52:26 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
In-Reply-To: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, damn close to Yoda-speak.  Aside from that, the poetry doesn't
open anything for me.

- Jim

On 1/24/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy Jollimore's book,
> and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms, but what's
> struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other archaisms,
> side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why comparisons
> have been made to Berryman, accordingly.
>
> Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:
>
> "Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
> It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
> to overcome, to do without, but could,
> he found, not; nor cigarettes, neither.  He stuck
> to them like glue. Opinions stuck to him
> and drugged him down into the muck.  Always asked he
> what lay so deep down there ? well now he knows..."
>
> I just find many phrasings very odd:  "He tried to learn/ to overcome, to do
> without, but could/ he found, not; nor cigarettes neither."  I'm trying and
> failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be productive.
>
> And:  "Always asked he"--which is right out of the Days of Yore, isn't it?
> I mean, he's not thee- and thou-ing, but you expect he will any moment.
>
> This sort of thing runs all through the poems I've seen.  It's obviously a
> very deliberate part of his style:
>
> "Trusts himself less, but more than others do;
> when he an elevator boards, they stand
> off to one side and keep an eye on him,
> suspicious-like; "
>
> And:  "And what could tell he to another ear?"
>
> And:
>
> "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
> get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read the book.  Are such excerpts
> characteristic?
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/



From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 24 18:15:13 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:15:13 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
In-Reply-To: <648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8E88C7EA-53F2-4E81-8407-D14657D0E2E4@earthlink.net>

Right! The least a poem should do is open up
one of them little cans of Vienna sausages. That's
what I say.

Hal

"Between the manifold splendors of anger, I
  watch a door slam like the corsage of a flower
  or the erasers of schoolchildren."
		--Andre Breton

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org

On Jan 24, 2007, at 4:52 PM, James Cervantes wrote:

> Yes, damn close to Yoda-speak.  Aside from that, the poetry doesn't
> open anything for me.
>
> - Jim
>
> On 1/24/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>> I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy  
>> Jollimore's book,
>> and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms,  
>> but what's
>> struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other  
>> archaisms,
>> side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why  
>> comparisons
>> have been made to Berryman, accordingly.
>>
>> Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:
>>
>> "Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
>> It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
>> to overcome, to do without, but could,
>> he found, not; nor cigarettes, neither.  He stuck
>> to them like glue. Opinions stuck to him
>> and drugged him down into the muck.  Always asked he
>> what lay so deep down there  well now he knows..."
>>
>> I just find many phrasings very odd:  "He tried to learn/ to  
>> overcome, to do
>> without, but could/ he found, not; nor cigarettes neither."  I'm  
>> trying and
>> failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be  
>> productive.
>>
>> And:  "Always asked he"--which is right out of the Days of Yore,  
>> isn't it?
>> I mean, he's not thee- and thou-ing, but you expect he will any  
>> moment.
>>
>> This sort of thing runs all through the poems I've seen.  It's  
>> obviously a
>> very deliberate part of his style:
>>
>> "Trusts himself less, but more than others do;
>> when he an elevator boards, they stand
>> off to one side and keep an eye on him,
>> suspicious-like; "
>>
>> And:  "And what could tell he to another ear?"
>>
>> And:
>>
>> "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
>> get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read the book.  Are such  
>> excerpts
>> characteristic?
>>
>>
>>
>> ====================================================
>> David Graham
>> grahamd at ripon.edu
>> Home Page:
>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>> Poetry Library:
>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>> ====================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From debra at debradicembre.com  Wed Jan 24 18:52:42 2007
From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:52:42 +1100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008301c74012$c6b3f560$0301010a@galaxy>

I love it.
Men undone by love and cigarettes.
The jolted way it forces you to read, is exactly how it is, to be,
undone...pushed into, forced out of, got , to get, can't, out.
> failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be productive.
Because the guy is struggling, no?
DD

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore


> Yes, damn close to Yoda-speak.  Aside from that, the poetry doesn't
> open anything for me.
>
> - Jim
>
> On 1/24/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> > I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy Jollimore's
book,
> > and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms, but
what's
> > struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other
archaisms,
> > side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why
comparisons
> > have been made to Berryman, accordingly.
> >
> > Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:
> >
> > "Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
> > It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
> > to overcome, to do without, but could,
> > he found, not; nor cigarettes, neither.  He stuck
> > to them like glue. Opinions stuck to him
> > and drugged him down into the muck.  Always asked he
> > what lay so deep down there ? well now he knows..."
> >
> > I just find many phrasings very odd:  "He tried to learn/ to overcome,
to do
> > without, but could/ he found, not; nor cigarettes neither."  I'm trying
and
> > failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be productive.
> >
> > And:  "Always asked he"--which is right out of the Days of Yore, isn't
it?
> > I mean, he's not thee- and thou-ing, but you expect he will any moment.
> >
> > This sort of thing runs all through the poems I've seen.  It's obviously
a
> > very deliberate part of his style:
> >
> > "Trusts himself less, but more than others do;
> > when he an elevator boards, they stand
> > off to one side and keep an eye on him,
> > suspicious-like; "
> >
> > And:  "And what could tell he to another ear?"
> >
> > And:
> >
> > "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
> > get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read the book.  Are such
excerpts
> > characteristic?
> >
> >
> >
> > ====================================================
> > David Graham
> > grahamd at ripon.edu
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> > Poetry Library:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> > ====================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
> -- 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From debra at debradicembre.com  Wed Jan 24 18:56:45 2007
From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:56:45 +1100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009601c74013$5777be10$0301010a@galaxy>

> "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
> get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
>
that's getting annoying.
DD
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore


> Yes, damn close to Yoda-speak.  Aside from that, the poetry doesn't
> open anything for me.
>
> - Jim
>
> On 1/24/07, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
> > I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy Jollimore's
book,
> > and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms, but
what's
> > struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other
archaisms,
> > side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why
comparisons
> > have been made to Berryman, accordingly.
> >
> > Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:
> >
> > "Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
> > It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
> > to overcome, to do without, but could,
> > he found, not; nor cigarettes, neither.  He stuck
> > to them like glue. Opinions stuck to him
> > and drugged him down into the muck.  Always asked he
> > what lay so deep down there ? well now he knows..."
> >
> > I just find many phrasings very odd:  "He tried to learn/ to overcome,
to do
> > without, but could/ he found, not; nor cigarettes neither."  I'm trying
and
> > failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be productive.
> >
> > And:  "Always asked he"--which is right out of the Days of Yore, isn't
it?
> > I mean, he's not thee- and thou-ing, but you expect he will any moment.
> >
> > This sort of thing runs all through the poems I've seen.  It's obviously
a
> > very deliberate part of his style:
> >
> > "Trusts himself less, but more than others do;
> > when he an elevator boards, they stand
> > off to one side and keep an eye on him,
> > suspicious-like; "
> >
> > And:  "And what could tell he to another ear?"
> >
> > And:
> >
> > "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
> > get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read the book.  Are such
excerpts
> > characteristic?
> >
> >
> >
> > ====================================================
> > David Graham
> > grahamd at ripon.edu
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> > Poetry Library:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> > ====================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
> -- 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 19:01:21 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:01:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
In-Reply-To: <200701242248.l0OMmqt6007639@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <343157.85487.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I quite liked those Jollimore poems -- though they
certainly are a little too derivative of Berryman,
they don't only use archaism, but also juxtapose it
with very current colloquialism, causing little
shockwaves that certainly open little cans of Vienna
sausages for Yours Truly. On the other hand, I like
mannered syntax -- to say the least! -- as some of you
have no doubt observed, in my own work (cf new issue
of MiPoesias, eg)....Though I don't think I have quite
the same propensity for archaism, generally speaking.
I think it's a shame there's so much resistance in
American poetry to *unnatural* language, as it were --
cf. on this subject Pierre Joris' introduction to
Celan's Breathturn, for instance.
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 19:05:02 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:05:02 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
In-Reply-To: <009601c74013$5777be10$0301010a@galaxy>
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>
	<009601c74013$5777be10$0301010a@galaxy>
Message-ID: <648208b60701241605i72d2a263pfe595c76b0895d8@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/24/07, Debra Dicembre <debra at debradicembre.com> wrote:
> > "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
> > get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
> >
> that's getting annoying.
> DD

Yes.  Bad it is.


-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 19:06:22 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:06:22 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
In-Reply-To: <8E88C7EA-53F2-4E81-8407-D14657D0E2E4@earthlink.net>
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<648208b60701241452x7062557fs7e22e10429ce986d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8E88C7EA-53F2-4E81-8407-D14657D0E2E4@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60701241606i68e6436g6c18896af37fdc0a@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/24/07, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Right! The least a poem should do is open up
> one of them little cans of Vienna sausages. That's
> what I say.

Absolutely, and the key should be attached at the bottom, as it used
to be with some cans of sardines.  Then there's Spam.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Jan 24 19:38:12 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:38:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00d301c74019$26ad9a60$defad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: "NewPoetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore


> I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy Jollimore's 
> book,
> and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms, but 
> what's
> struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other archaisms,
> side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why 
> comparisons
> have been made to Berryman, accordingly.
>
> Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:
>
> "Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
> It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
> to overcome, to do without, but could,

Here we have the value of the line-break: "could" what?  I as a reader want 
to know what ability of his we are going to find out about.

> he found, [bang: I'm frustrated; the suspense generated by the line-break 
> has doubled] not; [joke, but also emotionally exactly right, with the 
> "not" given twice the charge it would have had if Jollimore had written, 
> "He tried to learn to overcome/ but could not.] He stuck . . ."

Aside from that, freshness of diction for its own sake CAN be a value.

To give just a brief explanation why I'm tempted now, thanks to David's 
posting these passages of Jollimore, to exercise my privilege as a National 
Book Critics Circle member to vote for this guy instead of voting for none 
of the above, as I always have done in the past.  But, no.  The guy's a 
pretty good poet, but just a jitter more interesting than the mainstreamers 
the awards always go to.  Note: I have nothing against prizes going to 
mainstreamers, but, as I always have to say, I'm against their never going 
to anyone else (under seventy).

--Bob 




From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Wed Jan 24 19:51:12 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:51:12 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
Message-ID: <c4c.ca49627.32e95900@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/24/2007 4:37:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

Love  pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
> It flew at him like  storms. He tried to learn
> to overcome, to do without, but  could


Bob,  I love when mystery in poetry has defining points for  the reader to 
reflect on. 
Could...means so much. 
 
 ~Raven
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From barry.spacks at verizon.net  Wed Jan 24 21:06:19 2007
From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:06:19 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Berrymanics
In-Reply-To: <200701242248.l0OMmqt5007639@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701242248.l0OMmqt5007639@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <AE58CEBE-8696-4F06-A754-2906B0183B7D@verizon.net>


On Jan 24, 2007, at 2:48 PM, David Graham wrote:

> I can see why comparisons
> have been made to Berryman
>
"Mr. Troy, I knew John Berryman. John Berryman was a friend of mine.
Mr. Troy, you're no John Berryman."

Next thing you know the next hot thing will break out with dashes.

just fussin'

Barry


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Jan 24 21:09:01 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:09:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
References: <c4c.ca49627.32e95900@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00ee01c74025$ca23a610$defad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  In a message dated 1/24/2007 4:37:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
    > It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
    > to overcome, to do without, but could
  Bob,  I love when mystery in poetry has defining points for the reader to reflect on. 
  Could...means so much. 

   ~Raven
  Perzackly.

  --Bob
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From bmarcacci at gmail.com  Thu Jan 25 00:00:20 2007
From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:00:20 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
In-Reply-To: <343157.85487.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C1DE5A64.449F%bmarcacci@gmail.com>

I disagree with this statement, Alex... I think the resistance comes when it
is simply poorly used...

It's always about making the chosen words work well together and with that
kind of language we have to work harder...

I'm not judging TJ's choices... I would have to reserve judgement until
after I'd read a heftier bit more of the stuff...

And derivative... Good writing shows its derivations... takes them beyond
what they were...

-- 
Bob Marcacci

Nothing fixes a thing so intensely in the memory as the wish to forget it.
 - Michel de Montaigne



> From: Alexander Dickow <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:01:21 -0800 (PST)
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
> 
> I think it's a shame there's so much resistance in
> American poetry to *unnatural* language




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Jan 25 04:23:09 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:23:09 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
References: <C1DD3D9E.E00D%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <005101c74062$6e2b4290$70a93452@ANNY>

If all his poetry is like this, it might be like a difficult mountain path 
to cross, but the passage here below seems to me interesting. I am able to 
get to the difficulty and uneasiness TJ wants to describe, and the unlucky 
complexities you are willy nilly drawn into

those opinions that stuck to him and drugged him down into the muck_
and the incapacity (that it seems so) not only to formulate his feeling, but 
first of all to accept them:

... to do without, but could,
he found, not, nor cigarettes, neither.

This is good, this is great. It describes it just the way it is.

From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:45 PM


> I've been reading the online excerpts available from Troy Jollimore's 
> book,
> and remain a bit puzzled.  Tad mentioned his scansion & rhythms, but 
> what's
> struck me is his mannered syntax.  Lots of inversions or other archaisms,
> side by side with contemporary diction & syntax.  I can see why 
> comparisons
> have been made to Berryman, accordingly.
>
> Here's the opening of one of the Tom Thomson poems:
>
> "Love pushed him sidewise through the bleary nights.
> It flew at him like storms. He tried to learn
> to overcome, to do without, but could,
> he found, not; nor cigarettes, neither.  He stuck
> to them like glue. Opinions stuck to him
> and drugged him down into the muck.  Always asked he
> what lay so deep down there ? well now he knows..."
>
> I just find many phrasings very odd:  "He tried to learn/ to overcome, to 
> do
> without, but could/ he found, not; nor cigarettes neither."  I'm trying 
> and
> failing to see some reason why the awkwardness here might be productive.
>
> And:  "Always asked he"--which is right out of the Days of Yore, isn't it?
> I mean, he's not thee- and thou-ing, but you expect he will any moment.
>
> This sort of thing runs all through the poems I've seen.  It's obviously a
> very deliberate part of his style:
>
> "Trusts himself less, but more than others do;
> when he an elevator boards, they stand
> off to one side and keep an eye on him,
> suspicious-like; "
>
> And:  "And what could tell he to another ear?"
>
> And:
>
> "And knows he therefore will not one red cent
> get from them this year.  Nor desires he to."
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here has actually read the book.  Are such 
> excerpts
> characteristic?
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com  Thu Jan 25 09:51:21 2007
From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 9:51:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of Onedit
Message-ID: <200701251451.l0PEpLJ9016387@mail27.atl.registeredsite.com>

onedit

Dear Friends,

The new issue of onedit is online.

http://www.onedit.net/

onedit 7 features work by:

Ray Di Palma
Ken Edwards
Thomas Evans
Josep-Maria Junoy
Simon Pettet
Kit Robinson
Joan Salvat-Papasseit
Leslie Scalapino
Aaron Shurin
Gregory Vincent St.Thomasino
Philip Terry
Stephen Vincent


With best wishes from Tim Atkins [editor]

-- 
Tim Atkins <timatkins at onedit.net>


posted by:
Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino



From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Thu Jan 25 11:57:43 2007
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:57:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
Message-ID: <1583.1169744263@opus40.org>

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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 13:29:00 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:29:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] TJ good and bad
In-Reply-To: <200701251700.l0PH05t6023259@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <986566.60707.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bob,
You've made the very good point that it's a little
tough to judge this guy based on three or four short
poems.
Sorry if my statement came across as a little
overgeneralized. I was sorta reacting to the adjective
"mannered" somebody had used, which I think, one way
or the other, might not be a very precise description
of what's right or wrong about a poem, if you take my
meaning.
As for derivation...that's one I'm confused about.
Does Geoffrey G. O'Brien's "stevensian" feel bother
you? It never did me (I always thought those
criticisms were a little exaggerated -- and often
seemed motivated by peoples' dislike for the
individual, I might add...), but it seems to bother a
lot of people. A possible distinction: a productive
dialogue with one's "influences" or whatever you call
them, vs. mimicry. That would take a good deal more
fine-tuning, but it's a distinction to open
discussion....
Amicalement,
Alex

Bob Marcacci wrote:
"I disagree with this statement, Alex... I think the
resistance comes 
when it
is simply poorly used...

It's always about making the chosen words work well
together and with 
that
kind of language we have to work harder...

I'm not judging TJ's choices... I would have to
reserve judgement until
after I'd read a heftier bit more of the stuff...

And derivative... Good writing shows its
derivations... takes them 
beyond
what they were..."



www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Jan 25 14:46:43 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:46:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: TJ good and bad
In-Reply-To: <986566.60707.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C1DE6543.E059%grahamd@ripon.edu>

I'm guessing no one has seen the whole book yet.  At least, no one responded
when I asked.   There are about a dozen Troy Jollimore poems I've found
online, and my earlier post quoted from some of them.  As noted, one trait
common to his work (at least in the dozen I've seen) is a tendency to employ
inverted and/or unidiomatic syntax.

So I'm also the one who introduced the term "mannered" into the discussion,
which I see no reason to take back.  But I'd be happy to see a more precise
term if anyone's got one.  Or, to put it more sharply, happy would be I
further discussion to see of what Jim C called TJ's "Yoda-Speak."

I'm not ready, based on my limited sample, to call such syntactical
shenanigans "good" or "bad," but my first impression was that I wasn't
immediately seeing much payoff for the technique.  But after a while I do
tire of the same thing even when Berryman does it, I suppose.

I have to say, though, that I think the notion of a relatively unknown
first-book poet getting such a nomination is welcome news.  And "Troy
Jollimore" is a terrific name for a poet, and I hope it's an invention. . .
.


On 1/25/07 12:29 PM, "Alexander Dickow" <alexdickow9 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> You've made the very good point that it's a little
> tough to judge this guy based on three or four short
> poems.
> Sorry if my statement came across as a little
> overgeneralized. I was sorta reacting to the adjective
> "mannered" somebody had used, which I think, one way
> or the other, might not be a very precise description
> of what's right or wrong about a poem, if you take my
> meaning.


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From skip at louisiana.edu  Thu Jan 25 16:03:05 2007
From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:03:05 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] TJ good and bad
In-Reply-To: <986566.60707.qm@web35512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c740c4$3b3ed650$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu>


Not that it means much, but I have a bit of a problem when a poet picks a
character and then runs him/her/it through the paces of contemporary
culture, neuroses, etc. With the exception of few (Pound's Mauberley, Ted
Hughes's Crow, Berryman's Henry Pussycat, and a few others), they tend to
sound facile after a short while (even Berryman after 90 or so Dream Songs,
I feel, tends to go slack more often than not).

Such poetry might be more use to a young poet learning how to forget about a
period style attentiveness to him- or herself, but as a reader it _does_
often seem mannered and derivative (how many books of this order have been
written and published?) "Hitler goes to the Baby Shower," "Wampus Has a
Tantrum at the Feed Store," . . . (sigh)

TJ's work seems rather tepid and facile in the ways of most of these works.






From LauraHeidy at aol.com  Thu Jan 25 16:08:44 2007
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:08:44 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the American Voice
Message-ID: <ca0.8a9463d.32ea765c@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/25/2007 3:23:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
tad at opus40.org writes:

Any info would be useful, thanks.


 
 
 
(http://www.baymoon.com/~ariadne/editorial/white.house.fears.poetry.htm#symposium)  
 
Sam Hamill (who wanted to go and read protest poetry) , Philip  Levine,  Rita 
Dove, Stranley Kunitz, and Adrienne Rich - all of whom sent  their refusals. 
 
_White  House Fears Poetry - Laura Bush Postpones._ 
(http://www.baymoon.com/~ariadne/editorial/white.house.fears.poetry.htm#symposium)  
 

 
 
  David Lehman, J.D. McClatchy, and Daniel Mark Epstein and J.  Botttum (Jody 
from First Things?) - who wanted to go and were upset with  the protesting 
poets who "caused" the cancellation.  Also Dana, I'm sure,  since the occasion 
was to also mark his swearing in as the new Arts Foundation  chairman.
 
_PREVIEW:  The Poets vs. The First Lady_ 
(http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=2228&R=111E688D7)  
 
I can't seem to find names for any of the others----although I am sure  there 
are some.
 
Hope this helps a little, though.
 
Lo
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan 21 14:24:26 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:24:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails
References: <ce9.7a3a792.32e503dd@aol.com>
	<008601c73d8d$e0d13ac0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00f801c73d91$c41f3400$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I sent Jim two private emails from two different addresses, and am posting here too. 

Some people would think of not getting my posts as the next step toward Nirvana.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails


  I don't seem to be getting Tad's emails to the list.

  Has anyone else experienced this?

  Tad, would you send me something b/c as a test?.

  Finnegan


  I'm getting them.  I do notice from time to time not having gotten a post to New-Poetry someone quotes in a later post.

  --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Thu Jan 25 18:32:08 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 18:32:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Troy Jollimore
References: <1583.1169744263@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <003d01c740d9$0aed4030$b9fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  >>>>I have nothing against prizes going to 
  mainstreamers, but, as I always have to say, I'm against their never going 
  to anyone else <<<<

  If it went to anyone else, that person would become, by definition, a mainstreamer.

  I guess it would depend on one's definition of "mainstreamer."  Mine (in poetry) is "poet who makes the same kind of poems 90% of the poets published in the mainstream write, the mainstream being The New Yorker, APR, Knopf, etc., and all their small press imitators.

  --Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Jan 25 19:58:32 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:58:32 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] TJ good and bad
Message-ID: <d03.7861dd8.32eaac38@aol.com>

There may be more to Jollimore than
the 'Tom Thomson' poems...but
in these I think he's trying to write
the self-involved poem, without
doing so. Unfortunately, I don't
find the created character's diction
very compelling. Berryman is
a bit more jazzy; more complex.
>From the sample group, 'Tom Thomson' 
is not someone who engages me. 
Finnegan  
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Jan 26 05:10:47 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:10:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails
References: <ce9.7a3a792.32e503dd@aol.com><008601c73d8d$e0d13ac0$2efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00f801c73d91$c41f3400$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <001d01c74132$407247b0$41ab3452@ANNY>

Re.:
"Some people would think of not getting my posts as the next step toward Nirvana."

I think you let a "not" slip in inadvertedly.
  From: TheOldMole 
  Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:24 PM


  I sent Jim two private emails from two different addresses, and am posting here too. 

  Some people would think of not getting my posts as the next step toward Nirvana.
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 11:06:51 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Come, make warm bodies tonight ...
In-Reply-To: <001d01c74132$407247b0$41ab3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <735593.42706.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

MiPOesias @ Stain Bar
  Friday, January 26, 2007
  7 P.M.
  Presents
   
                ~~~  DAN HOY   ~~~   PF POTVIN  ~~~  ERICA FABRI  ~~~
   
                                       ??Light Up the Single Digit Temps Tonight!!
  ______________
   
  Dan Hoy lives in Brooklyn and is co-editor of SOFT TARGETS. Recent work has appeared or is forthcoming in Absent, Cannibal, H_NGM_N, Effing, Dreams That Money Can Buy, and elsewhere. Videos and movie criticism are available on his website, www.sinlechuga.com.
   
   
  PF POTVIN is the author of The Attention Lesson (No Tell Books). His work has appeared in MiPOesias, Sleepingfish, Boston Review, Black Warrior Review, Sentence, No Tell Motel, and elsewhere. He has taught at various language schools and colleges in the U.S. and Chile . He serves on the staff of Drunken Boat, runs ultramarathons, and currently resides in Miami , FL.
   
   
  Erica Miriam Fabri is a poet and educator. She is a graduate of the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and received her MFA in poetry from the New School . She is the author of High Heel Magazine, winner of the 2006 Belle Letter Press chapbook contest. She has work published or forthcoming in Good Foot Magazine and Got Poetry? An Offline Anthology. She currently teaches creative writing at The School of Visual Arts, Baruch College and Lehman College . www.ericafabri.com 
   
  ______________
   
  Hoy ?  http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/hoy_dan.html    
   
  Potvin ?  http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/potvin_pf.htm       
   
  Fabri ? http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/fabri_erica.html     
   
  _______________
   
  STAIN BAR
  766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211
  (L train to Grand Street stop, walk one block west) -- 718/387-7840 -- daily 5 p.m.
   
  Hope to see you there!
   
  _______________
   
  http://www.mipoesias.com     
  http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com      
   
  ________________

 
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Jan 26 18:55:06 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:55:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Both Obscure and Ubiquitous
Message-ID: <d33.5e8debd.32ebeeda@aol.com>

_http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/26/AR20070126004
60.html_ 
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/26/AR2007012600460.html) 
 
Torquato Tasso, a Poet Both Obscure and Ubiquitous
 
By Philip Kennicott
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 28,  2007; Page N01
 
The legacy of the great Italian poet Torquato Tasso, once considered almost  
a peer of Dante, is hiding in plain sight. Although he is no more than a  
footnote today, he was once wildly popular, quoted by philosophers, emulated by  
poets, and a source of inspiration to painters and composers. Even his sad and  
tormented life was an obsession for the romantics, inspiring a play by 
Goethe, a  poem by Byron, a painting by Delacroix and a symphonic study by Liszt.
 
 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Jan 26 19:02:49 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 19:02:49 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails
Message-ID: <c89.90c1b9b.32ebf0a9@aol.com>

 
I just got this, Tad...but the same exact message was quoted by
Anny earlier....did you send it twice? Or maybe there is an echo
in cyberspace.
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 1/26/2007 6:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
tad at opus40.org writes:

I sent Jim two private emails from two different addresses, and am  posting 
here too. 
 
Some people would think of not getting my posts as the next step toward  
Nirvana.



 
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 26 19:35:56 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:35:56 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Both Obscure and Ubiquitous
In-Reply-To: <d33.5e8debd.32ebeeda@aol.com>
References: <d33.5e8debd.32ebeeda@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3DB7A94C-6DD8-45A4-8F6C-7701D2631C44@earthlink.net>

On Jan 26, 2007, at 5:55 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/26/ 
> AR2007012600460.html
>
> Torquato Tasso, a Poet Both Obscure and Ubiquitous
>
> By Philip Kennicott
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Sunday, January 28, 2007; Page N01
>
> The legacy of the great Italian poet Torquato Tasso, once  
> considered almost a peer of Dante, is hiding in plain sight.  
> Although he is no more than a footnote today, he was once wildly  
> popular, quoted by philosophers, emulated by poets, and a source of  
> inspiration to painters and composers. Even his sad and tormented  
> life was an obsession for the romantics, inspiring a play by  
> Goethe, a poem by Byron, a painting by Delacroix and a symphonic  
> study by Liszt.


Not to mention a poem by me, written way back when. I'll send it along
when I get a minute to fetch it from my archives.


"If the brain were so simple we could understand
  it, we would be so simple we couldn't."
                               --Lyall Watson

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org


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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 27 01:38:14 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:38:14 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Ryszard Kapuscinski (1932-2007)
In-Reply-To: <EA13528F-964A-41C3-9615-4177F4FC0B99@earthlink.net>
References: <EA13528F-964A-41C3-9615-4177F4FC0B99@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6A599AB4-BA13-4CFB-B254-D9C17CF9F6C5@earthlink.net>

I met him in 1988.....he was a visiting writer at Temple, and taught  
a fiction class (this was before the 'creative non-fiction' craze)  
and was really bored by the fiction students; he was really into the  
Beats and definitely had could be called a poetic passion for people  
who lived on the edges...
we had some great talks. Chris

On Jan 24, 2007, at 7:41 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> January 24, 2007
>
> Ryszard Kapuscinski, Polish Writer of Shimmering Allegories and  
> News, Dies at 74
>
> By MICHAEL T. KAUFMAN
> Ryszard Kapuscinski, a globe-trotting journalist from Poland whose  
> writing, often tinged with magical realism, brought him critical  
> acclaim and a wide international readership, died yesterday in  
> Warsaw. He was 74.
>
> His death, at a hospital, was reported by PAP, the Polish news  
> agency for which he had worked. No cause was given, but he was  
> known to have had cancer.
>
> Mr. Kapuscinski (pronounced ka-poos-CHIN-ski) spent some four  
> decades observing and writing about conflict throughout the  
> developing world. He witnessed 27 coups and revolutions. He spent  
> his working days gathering information for the terse dispatches he  
> sent to PAP, often from places like Ougadougou or Zanzibar.
>
> At night, he worked on longer, descriptive essays with  
> phantasmagoric touches that went far beyond the details of the  
> day?s events, using allegory and metaphors to convey what was  
> happening.
>
> ?It?s not that the story is not getting expressed? in ordinary news  
> reports, he said in an interview. ?It?s what surrounds the story.  
> The climate, the atmosphere of the street, the feeling of the  
> people, the gossip of the town; the smell; the thousands and  
> thousands of elements that are part of the events you read about in  
> 600 words of your morning paper.?
>
> From the 1970s on, these articles appeared in a series of books  
> that quickly made Mr. Kapuscinski Poland?s best-known foreign  
> correspondent. They later drew international attention in  
> translation. The books included ?The Soccer War,? which dealt with  
> Latin American conflicts; ?Another Day of Life,? about Angola?s  
> civil war; ?Shah of Shahs,? about the rise and fall of Iran?s last  
> monarch; and ?Imperium,? an account of his travels through Russia  
> and its neighbors after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
>
> The book that introduced Mr. Kapuscinski to readers and critics  
> beyond Poland was a slim one, ostensibly about Ethiopia, which he  
> wrote in 1978 and which appeared in English five years later under  
> the title ?The Emperor.?
>
> Subtitled ?Downfall of an Autocrat? (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich),  
> the book on one level portrayed the lapsed life of Haile Selassie?s  
> imperial court by citing the recollections of palace servants, like  
> the man responsible for cleaning the shoes of visiting dignitaries.
>
> A number of critics noted that despite the book?s documentary form,  
> it provided an allegory of absolutist power everywhere. Writing in  
> The New Yorker, John Updike said the book emphasized ?the  
> inevitable tendency of a despot, be he king, ward boss, or  
> dictator, to prefer loyalty to ability in his subordinates, and to  
> seek safety in stagnation.?
>
> His fame growing, Mr. Kapuscinski began writing for The New Yorker,  
> The New York Times Magazine and the British journal Granta.
>
> Though each of Mr. Kapuscinski?s books was distinct, they all  
> shared a sense of shimmering reality. There was, for instance, his  
> account of the departure of Portuguese settlers from Angola as  
> independence and civil war settled on the country. He described how  
> everything of value, from cars to refrigerators, was leaping into  
> boxes and floating off to Europe.
>
> In preparing these articles he never took notes and used memory to  
> stimulate his poetic imagination. In ?Imperium,? he evoked the  
> wintry cold of the old Soviet penal colonies by quoting a  
> schoolgirl who said she could tell who had passed by her house by  
> the shape of the tunnels they had left in the crystallized air.
>
> Mr. Kapuscinski, the son of schoolteachers, was born March 4, 1932,  
> in Pinsk, a city now in Belarus. In an interview in Granta in 1987,  
> he remembered Pinsk as a polyglot city of Jews, Poles, Russians,  
> Belarussians, Ukrainians and Armenians, all of whom were called  
> Poleshuks.
>
> ?They were a people without a nation and without, therefore, a  
> national identity,? he said. That quality, along with the poverty  
> of Pinsk, inspired his empathy for the third world.
>
> ?I have always rediscovered my home, rediscovered Pinsk, in Africa,  
> in Asia, in Latin America,? he said.
>
> Mr. Kapuscinski was in elementary school when the Nazis marched  
> into western Poland and the Soviets took the eastern part in 1939  
> at the outset of World War II. His family eventually made its way  
> to Warsaw, where Mr. Kapuscinski?s father fought with resistance  
> groups.
>
> Mr. Kapuscinski received a master?s degree in history from the  
> University of Warsaw. On graduation he joined the journal Sztandar  
> Mlodych, The Flag of Youth, a Communist publication, and quickly  
> became embroiled in the upheavals of 1956, when hard-line  
> Stalinists were being challenged within the party.
>
> Mr. Kapuscinski wrote an article describing the misery and despair  
> of steel workers at a new steel plant outside of Krakow that the  
> party bosses had extolled as a showpiece of proletarian culture.
>
> The article provoked such an attack from the hard-liners that Mr.  
> Kapuscinski was fired and forced into hiding. After party reformers  
> later prevailed, however, the young journalist?s findings were  
> confirmed by a blue-ribbon task force, and he was awarded Poland?s  
> Golden Cross of Merit for the same article that had gotten him into  
> trouble.
>
> In 1962, PAP, the news agency, appointed him its only correspondent  
> in the third world. He came to know Patrice Lumumba in the Congo,  
> Ben Bella in Algeria, Che Guevara in Cuba and Idi Amin in Uganda.  
> He covered the bloody uprising on Zanzibar in 1964 and the war  
> between El Salvador and Honduras in 1970. He was in southern Angola  
> in 1975 when South African forces invaded.
>
> He would travel for months at a time and then return to the two- 
> room apartment in Warsaw that he shared with his wife, Alicja  
> Mielczarek, a pediatrician. His daughter, Zofia, emigrated to  
> Vancouver, British Columbia, in the 1970s. There was no immediate  
> information on his survivors.
>
> In 1981, after he had committed himself to the Solidarity trade  
> union movement, the government of Gen. Wojciech Jaruzelski stripped  
> him of his journalistic credentials. He then began working with  
> underground publishers, contributing poems and supporting the  
> dissident culture.
>
> Eventually, as his reputation abroad grew, foreign royalties and  
> commissions enabled him to move to his own house in central Warsaw.
>
> With the collapse of the Soviet Union, he traveled to Moscow,  
> Siberia, Georgia and Armenia, observing life there and recording  
> the ravages of the Soviet era. Those travels yielded ?Imperium,?  
> published in the United States by Knopf in 1994.
>
> ?There is, I admit, a certain egoism, in what I write,? he once  
> said, ?always complaining about the heat or the hunger or the pain  
> I feel. But it is terribly important to have what I write  
> authenticated by its being lived. You could call it, I suppose,  
> personal reportage, because the author is always present. I  
> sometimes call it literature by foot.?
>
>
> "A paranoid is someone who knows a little
>  of what's going on."
>                      --William S. Burroughs
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan 27 07:08:59 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:08:59 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails
References: <c89.90c1b9b.32ebf0a9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003801c7420b$ed60b540$e7a93452@ANNY>

Not only an echo James, but much much more...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Tad's emails


  I just got this, Tad...but the same exact message was quoted by
  Anny earlier....did you send it twice? Or maybe there is an echo
  in cyberspace.
  Finnegan

  In a message dated 1/26/2007 6:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes:
    I sent Jim two private emails from two different addresses, and am posting here too. 

    Some people would think of not getting my posts as the next step toward Nirvana.

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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Jan 27 12:01:59 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:01:59 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu>

I haven't placed a poem in *Poetry* for the past seventeen years, but  
I've snuck in through the back door in the February issue, by way of  
a letter to the editor.

I wrote to dispute a claim in Christina Pugh's essay "Humor Anxiety"  
in the December issue, that in the world of contemporary American  
poetry, humor is a rare commodity, and has "fallen off the map."  I  
find that claim way off base, given the prominence of such poets as  
Billy Collins and Dean Young and many dozens more that I could have  
named.  Also, if anyone's attended many slams, open mics, or even  
university poetry reading series in recent years, I think the  
likelihood of hearing some "stand up poetry" is fairly high.

Christina Pugh replied to my letter.  Essentially, she pulled rank,  
and simply repeated her assertion.  She also claimed that, serving as  
a reader for *Poetry*, she's in a better position to know than I am.

So I thought I'd throw out the notion for comment here.  Am I off- 
base?  What's your take?  Is humor a rare thing in the landscape of  
contemporary American poetry?

Personally, I'm having a hard time imagining a time when there were  
more poetic funnybones being flexed than right now--across a fairly  
wide spectrum.

Maybe I just have an overly-embracing view of what's funny.  But  
here, for instance, is the tip of what I see as a rather massive  
iceberg:  Albert Goldbarth, Sherman Alexie, Tom Disch, Beau Sia,  
Russell Edson, Bill Knott, Billy Collins, Bob Perelman, Maggie Estep,  
Gerald Stern, Charles Bernstein, David Lehman, Barbara Hamby, Bob  
Hicok, Ron Koertge, Bill Trowbridge, David Kirby, Jeffrey McDaniel,  
Ronald Wallace, Tony Hoagland, James Tate, Denise Duhamel, Matt Cook,  
Taylor Mali, Charles Simic, Wanda Coleman, Mark Halliday, Charles  
Harper Webb, Amy Gerstler, John Ashbery, Kenneth Koch, X. J. Kennedy,  
Maxine Chernoff, Philip Dacey--not to mention our very own Sam Gwynn.

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 27 12:17:57 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:17:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu>
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <A3F62BFC-41B6-4C2C-9A71-2FC5BF6C4BA7@earthlink.net>

Humor off the map? That's a laugh.

Hal

"Poetic statements are no more actual statements
  than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert."
				--Susanne K. Langer

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org

On Jan 27, 2007, at 11:01 AM, David Graham wrote:

> I haven't placed a poem in *Poetry* for the past seventeen years,  
> but I've snuck in through the back door in the February issue, by  
> way of a letter to the editor.
>
> I wrote to dispute a claim in Christina Pugh's essay "Humor  
> Anxiety" in the December issue, that in the world of contemporary  
> American poetry, humor is a rare commodity, and has "fallen off the  
> map."  I find that claim way off base, given the prominence of such  
> poets as Billy Collins and Dean Young and many dozens more that I  
> could have named.  Also, if anyone's attended many slams, open  
> mics, or even university poetry reading series in recent years, I  
> think the likelihood of hearing some "stand up poetry" is fairly high.
>
> Christina Pugh replied to my letter.  Essentially, she pulled rank,  
> and simply repeated her assertion.  She also claimed that, serving  
> as a reader for *Poetry*, she's in a better position to know than I  
> am.
>
> So I thought I'd throw out the notion for comment here.  Am I off- 
> base?  What's your take?  Is humor a rare thing in the landscape of  
> contemporary American poetry?
>
> Personally, I'm having a hard time imagining a time when there were  
> more poetic funnybones being flexed than right now--across a fairly  
> wide spectrum.
>
> Maybe I just have an overly-embracing view of what's funny.  But  
> here, for instance, is the tip of what I see as a rather massive  
> iceberg:  Albert Goldbarth, Sherman Alexie, Tom Disch, Beau Sia,  
> Russell Edson, Bill Knott, Billy Collins, Bob Perelman, Maggie  
> Estep, Gerald Stern, Charles Bernstein, David Lehman, Barbara  
> Hamby, Bob Hicok, Ron Koertge, Bill Trowbridge, David Kirby,  
> Jeffrey McDaniel, Ronald Wallace, Tony Hoagland, James Tate, Denise  
> Duhamel, Matt Cook, Taylor Mali, Charles Simic, Wanda Coleman, Mark  
> Halliday, Charles Harper Webb, Amy Gerstler, John Ashbery, Kenneth  
> Koch, X. J. Kennedy, Maxine Chernoff, Philip Dacey--not to mention  
> our very own Sam Gwynn.
>
> ========================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ==========================================
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan 27 12:20:57 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:20:57 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY>

I like that: "not to mention our very own Sam Gwynn." to which we could also add Bill Knott, Tad Richards has some lugubrious humor hidden in his pockets -sometimes...

I do not know Mrs. Pugh, but how can she know that she is in a "better position to know than you are", does she even have a dim glimmer of the thousands of books you read? 
  From: David Graham 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:01 PM



  I haven't placed a poem in *Poetry* for the past seventeen years, but I've snuck in through the back door in the February issue, by way of a letter to the editor.


  I wrote to dispute a claim in Christina Pugh's essay "Humor Anxiety" in the December issue, that in the world of contemporary American poetry, humor is a rare commodity, and has "fallen off the map."  I find that claim way off base, given the prominence of such poets as Billy Collins and Dean Young and many dozens more that I could have named.  Also, if anyone's attended many slams, open mics, or even university poetry reading series in recent years, I think the likelihood of hearing some "stand up poetry" is fairly high.  


  Christina Pugh replied to my letter.  Essentially, she pulled rank, and simply repeated her assertion.  She also claimed that, serving as a reader for *Poetry*, she's in a better position to know than I am.


  So I thought I'd throw out the notion for comment here.  Am I off-base?  What's your take?  Is humor a rare thing in the landscape of contemporary American poetry?  


  Personally, I'm having a hard time imagining a time when there were more poetic funnybones being flexed than right now--across a fairly wide spectrum.


  Maybe I just have an overly-embracing view of what's funny.  But here, for instance, is the tip of what I see as a rather massive iceberg:  Albert Goldbarth, Sherman Alexie, Tom Disch, Beau Sia, Russell Edson, Bill Knott, Billy Collins, Bob Perelman, Maggie Estep, Gerald Stern, Charles Bernstein, David Lehman, Barbara Hamby, Bob Hicok, Ron Koertge, Bill Trowbridge, David Kirby, Jeffrey McDaniel, Ronald Wallace, Tony Hoagland, James Tate, Denise Duhamel, Matt Cook, Taylor Mali, Charles Simic, Wanda Coleman, Mark Halliday, Charles Harper Webb, Amy Gerstler, John Ashbery, Kenneth Koch, X. J. Kennedy, Maxine Chernoff, Philip Dacey--not to mention our very own Sam Gwynn.


  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ==========================================



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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Jan 27 12:38:57 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:38:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY>
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu>
	<00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu>

Oh, she is a reader for *Poetry*, and that certainly does give her  
bragging rights.  I mean she plows through many thousands of fresh  
poems each year, much of which isn't too interesting.   I do feel her  
pain about that, and I've no desire to dispute her experience; I just  
doubt her generalization.

I did mention Bill Knott; shoulda added Tad--but where does one stop,  
I guess. . . .  I mean, Grumman's pretty funny, and so forth.


On Jan 27, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> I like that: "not to mention our very own Sam Gwynn." to which we  
> could also add Bill Knott, Tad Richards has some lugubrious humor  
> hidden in his pockets -sometimes...
>
> I do not know Mrs. Pugh, but how can she know that she is in a  
> "better position to know than you are", does she even have a dim  
> glimmer of the thousands of books you read?



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Sat Jan 27 12:45:39 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:45:39 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <cf6.827ad46.32ece9c3@cs.com>

God knows there's plenty of humor out there!  Even Ashbery.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 27 13:05:20 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:05:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <011101c7423d$b8616f60$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I haven't placed a poem in *Poetry* for the past seventeen years, but I've snuck in through the back door in the February issue, by way of a letter to the editor.

I wrote to dispute a claim in Christina Pugh's essay "Humor Anxiety" in the December issue, that in the world of contemporary American poetry, humor is a rare commodity, and has "fallen off the map."  I find that claim way off base, given the prominence of such poets as Billy Collins and Dean Young and many dozens more that I could have named.  Also, if anyone's attended many slams, open mics, or even university poetry reading series in recent years, I think the likelihood of hearing some "stand up poetry" is fairly high.  

Christina Pugh replied to my letter.  Essentially, she pulled rank, and simply repeated her assertion.  She also claimed that, serving as a reader for *Poetry*, she's in a better position to know than I am.

So I thought I'd throw out the notion for comment here.  Am I off-base?  What's your take?  Is humor a rare thing in the landscape of contemporary American poetry? 

Personally, I'm having a hard time imagining a time when there were more poetic funnybones being flexed than right now--across a fairly wide spectrum.

Maybe I just have an overly-embracing view of what's funny.  But here, for instance, is the tip of what I see as a rather massive iceberg:  Albert Goldbarth, Sherman Alexie, Tom Disch, Beau Sia, Russell Edson, Bill Knott, Billy Collins, Bob Perelman, Maggie Estep, Gerald Stern, Charles Bernstein, David Lehman, Barbara Hamby, Bob Hicok, Ron Koertge, Bill Trowbridge, David Kirby, Jeffrey McDaniel, Ronald Wallace, Tony Hoagland, James Tate, Denise Duhamel, Matt Cook, Taylor Mali, Charles Simic, Wanda Coleman, Mark Halliday, Charles Harper Webb, Amy Gerstler, John Ashbery, Kenneth Koch, X. J. Kennedy, Maxine Chernoff, Philip Dacey--not to mention our very own Sam Gwynn.

Hey, David, the poems sent to POETRY represent the full range of American poetry.  You of all people should know that.  Seriousfully, I would say that she not surprisingly doesn't know anything about American poetry.  But in one way, she's right: the mainest part of the mainstream doesn't seem to be publishing light verse.  There is no equivalent of Collier's and the Saturday Evening Post regularly printing light verse, that I know of.  And we don't seem to have any famous light verse specialists like Armour and Nash.  We do have LIGHT, the light verse magazine, which has excellent light verse, including material by Sam and others of New-Poetry.  My own press has published several collections of light verse, including two chaps by Ed Conti, whom I consider extremely good.  Pugh, of course, would never have heard of my press or--very possibly--even of LIGHT.

I would add that we have fewer formalists now, and that the best light verse is almost always formal verse--of some kind.

--Bob G.
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 13:15:53 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:15:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY>
	<D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00fc01c7423f$2f5263d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

As long as I'm in there, who cares about Grumman?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:38 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous


  Oh, she is a reader for *Poetry*, and that certainly does give her bragging rights.  I mean she plows through many thousands of fresh poems each year, much of which isn't too interesting.   I do feel her pain about that, and I've no desire to dispute her experience; I just doubt her generalization.  


  I did mention Bill Knott; shoulda added Tad--but where does one stop, I guess. . . .  I mean, Grumman's pretty funny, and so forth.




  On Jan 27, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote:


    I like that: "not to mention our very own Sam Gwynn." to which we could also add Bill Knott, Tad Richards has some lugubrious humor hidden in his pockets -sometimes...

    I do not know Mrs. Pugh, but how can she know that she is in a "better position to know than you are", does she even have a dim glimmer of the thousands of books you read? 






  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ==========================================








------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 27 13:34:26 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:34:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY><D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu>
	<00fc01c7423f$2f5263d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <021201c74241$c75fa4b0$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  As long as I'm in there, who cares about Grumman?

  I think I'm sometimes a hilariously funny prose writer, but I've done very few comic poems.

  --Bob
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan 27 13:50:14 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:50:14 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY>
	<D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <01cc01c74243$fb9b27c0$e7a93452@ANNY>

ah yes, I meant Knott among the "our owns", possession is a quality after all. And yes, how could I forget young Grumman _spring green in his hopeful years?

re.: reader for *Poetry*, I understand what you say and it is respectfully put, but I would not despise such a privileged job
  From: David Graham 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:38 PM


  Oh, she is a reader for *Poetry*, and that certainly does give her bragging rights.  I mean she plows through many thousands of fresh poems each year, much of which isn't too interesting.   I do feel her pain about that, and I've no desire to dispute her experience; I just doubt her generalization.  


  I did mention Bill Knott; shoulda added Tad--but where does one stop, I guess. . . .  I mean, Grumman's pretty funny, and so forth.




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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 14:35:40 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:35:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY><D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu><00fc01c7423f$2f5263d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<021201c74241$c75fa4b0$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <001d01c7424a$53e10f20$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Bob...just kidding.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous



   
    As long as I'm in there, who cares about Grumman?

    I think I'm sometimes a hilariously funny prose writer, but I've done very few comic poems.

    --Bob


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 14:36:29 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:36:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY><D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu>
	<01cc01c74243$fb9b27c0$e7a93452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003601c7424a$71374850$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

*Poetry* would be a better magazine if you had the job, Anny.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous


  ah yes, I meant Knott among the "our owns", possession is a quality after all. And yes, how could I forget young Grumman _spring green in his hopeful years?

  re.: reader for *Poetry*, I understand what you say and it is respectfully put, but I would not despise such a privileged job
    From: David Graham 
    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:38 PM


    Oh, she is a reader for *Poetry*, and that certainly does give her bragging rights.  I mean she plows through many thousands of fresh poems each year, much of which isn't too interesting.   I do feel her pain about that, and I've no desire to dispute her experience; I just doubt her generalization.   


    I did mention Bill Knott; shoulda added Tad--but where does one stop, I guess. . . .  I mean, Grumman's pretty funny, and so forth. 







------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From SLIDINGSCA at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 15:13:53 2007
From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com (SLIDINGSCA at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:13:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <c8f.7eaf5f2.32ed0c81@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

 

I would add that we have fewer formalists now,  and that the best light verse 
is almost always formal verse--of some  kind.
 
--Bob  G.





My foray into the realm of formalist light verse,  which I plan to submit to 
Poetry soon. 
The Other Woman?s  Cunt 
I?m not jealous; I?m merely concerned: 
That other woman, 
Who says she?s thirty-three, 
Who never noticed you before you started seeing me; 
The one who glares at me and smiles at you 
Like an old cat gone in heat? 
It?s her vagina, dear, you know, that dried up old thing 
She uses for storage space? She?s got stuff down there, I  mean: 
Toilet paper, styptic pencils, chewing gum, receipts, 
Kitty litter, her brother?s dentures, a bowl of Cream of  Wheat, 
A scratch and sniff ad for some very old spice, 
Subways seats (for the disabled), 
A flamethrower, her poetry notebooks, a set of formica tables. 
(Baby, that woman?s got  
a diner 
in her vagina.) 
She?s got:  
Twelve truckers trucking 
Eleven doctors docking 
Ten grocers grossing 
Nine hookers hooking 
Eight fleas a leaping 
Seven lice a laying 
Six scabies scabbing 
Five transexuals 
Four lesbians 
Three old pricks 
Two falling drunks 
And a biker with clap and herpes 
Her vagina is an attic in the summer, a New York studio for rent,
Her cunt is so  old?. 
[HOW OLD IS IT?] 
Sedmentation records of her twat show that ancient, I mean ANCIENT  cultures 
live there. 
I?m not fussy 
But her pussy is messy. 
A cluttered vagina 
Can?t come to no good. 
A littered-up clitty 
Can?t do what it should. 
So don?t eat out, baby---come home.  



Larissa  Shmailo_ slidingsca at aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca at aol.com) 
_http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld_ (http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld) 
http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
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From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sat Jan 27 15:20:54 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:20:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <c8f.7eaf5f2.32ed0c81@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV3F325BBBB18F186E7A14AD9A10@phx.gbl>

SO funny it hurts!


On 1/27/07 3:13 PM, "SLIDINGSCA at aol.com" <SLIDINGSCA at aol.com> wrote:

>> 
> My foray into the realm of formalist light verse, which I plan to submit to
> Poetry soon.
>  
> The Other Woman?s Cunt
>  
> I?m not jealous; I?m merely concerned:
> That other woman,
> Who says she?s thirty-three,
> Who never noticed you before you started seeing me;
> The one who glares at me and smiles at you
> Like an old cat gone in heat?
>  
> It?s her vagina, dear, you know, that dried up old thing
> She uses for storage space? She?s got stuff down there, I mean:
> Toilet paper, styptic pencils, chewing gum, receipts,
> Kitty litter, her brother?s dentures, a bowl of Cream of Wheat,
> A scratch and sniff ad for some very old spice,
> Subways seats (for the disabled),
> A flamethrower, her poetry notebooks, a set of formica tables.
>  
> (Baby, that woman?s got
> a diner
> in her vagina.)
>  
> She?s got: 
> Twelve truckers trucking
> Eleven doctors docking
> Ten grocers grossing
> Nine hookers hooking
> Eight fleas a leaping
> Seven lice a laying
> Six scabies scabbing
> Five transexuals
> Four lesbians
> Three old pricks
> Two falling drunks
> And a biker with clap and herpes
>  
> Her vagina is an attic in the summer, a New York studio for rent,
> Her cunt is so old?.
> [HOW OLD IS IT?]
> Sedmentation records of her twat show that ancient, I mean ANCIENT cultures
> live there.
>  
> I?m not fussy
> But her pussy is messy.
>  
> A cluttered vagina
> Can?t come to no good.
> A littered-up clitty
> Can?t do what it should.
>  
> So don?t eat out, baby---come home.
>  
>  
> Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com <mailto:slidingsca at aol.com>
> http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
> http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
> http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
> http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 27 15:29:26 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:29:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY><D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu><00fc01c7423f$2f5263d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><021201c74241$c75fa4b0$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001d01c7424a$53e10f20$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <025b01c74251$d82fe470$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  Bob...just kidding.

  Are you saying I don't have a sense of humor!

  (I was just musing.)

  --Bob
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Jan 27 15:33:07 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:33:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <c8f.7eaf5f2.32ed0c81@aol.com>
Message-ID: <027101c74252$5c5786e0$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    I would add that we have fewer formalists now, and that the best light verse is almost always formal verse--of some kind.

    --Bob G.


  My foray into the realm of formalist light verse, which I plan to submit to Poetry soon.



  Be sure to let us know how you make out.  I'm afraid I thought it was pretty funny, which suggests that it's not right for Poetry.  I think Scientific American would snap it up, though.



  --Bob G.

   

  The Other Woman?s Cunt

   

  I?m not jealous; I?m merely concerned:

  That other woman,

  Who says she?s thirty-three,

  Who never noticed you before you started seeing me;

  The one who glares at me and smiles at you

  Like an old cat gone in heat?

   

  It?s her vagina, dear, you know, that dried up old thing

  She uses for storage space? She?s got stuff down there, I mean:

  Toilet paper, styptic pencils, chewing gum, receipts,

  Kitty litter, her brother?s dentures, a bowl of Cream of Wheat,

  A scratch and sniff ad for some very old spice,

  Subways seats (for the disabled),

  A flamethrower, her poetry notebooks, a set of formica tables.

   

  (Baby, that woman?s got 

  a diner

  in her vagina.)

   

  She?s got: 

  Twelve truckers trucking

  Eleven doctors docking

  Ten grocers grossing

  Nine hookers hooking

  Eight fleas a leaping

  Seven lice a laying

  Six scabies scabbing

  Five transexuals

  Four lesbians

  Three old pricks

  Two falling drunks

  And a biker with clap and herpes

   

  Her vagina is an attic in the summer, a New York studio for rent,
  Her cunt is so old?.

  [HOW OLD IS IT?]

  Sedmentation records of her twat show that ancient, I mean ANCIENT cultures live there.

   

  I?m not fussy

  But her pussy is messy.

   

  A cluttered vagina

  Can?t come to no good.

  A littered-up clitty

  Can?t do what it should.

   

  So don?t eat out, baby---come home. 

   


  Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com
  http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
  http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
  http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
  http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 15:48:02 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:48:02 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <bc0.9fd0031.32ed1482@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:

The Other Woman?s  Cunt 



Bob, I laughed so hard. This poem is wonderful. I gotta save this. LOVED  IT! 
 
 
"I?m not jealous; I?m merely  concerned:"  
~Raven
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan 27 15:58:08 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:58:08 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY><D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu><01cc01c74243$fb9b27c0$e7a93452@ANNY>
	<003601c7424a$71374850$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <026601c74255$d9a21540$e7a93452@ANNY>

:-)
:-)
:-)

who is my favorite favorite?

TAD RICHARDS

Par Bleu!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOldMole 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous


  *Poetry* would be a better magazine if you had the job, Anny.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Jan 27 15:59:10 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:59:10 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <c8f.7eaf5f2.32ed0c81@aol.com>
	<027101c74252$5c5786e0$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <027701c74255$fe0c49a0$e7a93452@ANNY>

the Scientific American... Bob this deserves a highlight!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Humorous



   
    In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:03:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
      I would add that we have fewer formalists now, and that the best light verse is almost always formal verse--of some kind.

      --Bob G.


    My foray into the realm of formalist light verse, which I plan to submit to Poetry soon.

     

    Be sure to let us know how you make out.  I'm afraid I thought it was pretty funny, which suggests that it's not right for Poetry.  I think Scientific American would snap it up, though.

     

    --Bob G.

     
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 16:01:33 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:01:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <bc0.9fd0031.32ed1482@aol.com>
Message-ID: <384904.33774.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Who actually wrote this withered vagina poem?
  

Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote:
        In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:
    The Other Woman???s Cunt
   

  
  Bob, I laughed so hard. This poem is wonderful. I gotta save this. LOVED IT! 
   
    "I???m not jealous; I???m merely concerned:"  

  ~Raven
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


 
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 16:01:50 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:01:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <bc0.9fd0031.32ed1482@aol.com>
Message-ID: <264311.67973.qm@web83311.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Who actually wrote this withered vagina poem?
  

Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote:
        In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:14:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:
    The Other Woman???s Cunt
   

  
  Bob, I laughed so hard. This poem is wonderful. I gotta save this. LOVED IT! 
   
    "I???m not jealous; I???m merely concerned:"  

  ~Raven
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


 
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:04:33 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:04:33 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <bc1.b259612.32ed1861@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
halvard at earthlink.net writes:

she  pulled rank, and simply repeated her assertion.  She also claimed that,  
serving as a reader for *Poetry*, she's in a better position to know than I  
am.


The editors must have found some poems in the slush pile...because  they
put out a Humor Issue in the past few months. It's around here  somewhere
and if I turn it up I'll post one they considered amusing...
 
Maybe she's got a different idea of what is really humorous...
Does it just make you smile or does it get a full ear-to-ear  grin, does it 
elicit 
an audible chuckle, or do you burst out laughing and start  rolling around on 
floor 
until you pee your pants? There's a range of course and Christine Pugh 
might be hard to tickle.
 
Finnegan
 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:09:18 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:09:18 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet's choice: Sir Charles
Message-ID: <cfa.82a83b1.32ed197e@aol.com>

_http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/25/AR20070125022
74.html_ 
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/25/AR2007012502274.html) 
 
Poet's Choice
 
By Robert Pinsky
Sunday, January 28, 2007; Page BW12
 
Charles Bernstein writes both prose and poetry about poetry, sometimes  
brilliantly, in ways calculated to upset the middlebrow and thwart the bland.  The 
more you like the poetic equivalent of a nice tune, easy to hum, the more  
Bernstein means to disrupt your complacency.
 
Nearly all his poems are about poetry.
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From SLIDINGSCA at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:10:55 2007
From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com (SLIDINGSCA at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:10:55 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <d3e.e6be6c.32ed19df@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:

Who actually wrote this withered vagina  poem?



Amy,
 
This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the  poem 
does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
-Larissa
 
Larissa  Shmailo_ slidingsca at aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca at aol.com) 
_http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld_ (http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld) 
http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:13:06 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:13:06 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan on Crane complete
Message-ID: <d1d.3520b9e.32ed1a62@aol.com>

_http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/26/news/idbriefs27E.php_ 
(http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/26/news/idbriefs27E.php) 
 (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/26/news/idbriefs27E.php) 
Review: Complete Poems and Selected Letters of Hart Crane
By William  Logan Published: January 26, 2007

Hart Crane Complete Poems and  Selected Letters. Edited by Langdon Hammer. 
849 pages. $40. The Library of  America. 
 

Before Hart  Crane's leap into the Caribbean that fatal April noon in 1932, 
he folded his  jacket over the ship's rail with impeccable manners. Striking 
out into the  glassy sea, he was seen no more, dying younger than Byron but 
older than  Shelley. Not being a seagoing breed, poets rarely die by water  -

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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:29:17 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:29:17 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <c90.6b997f1.32ed1e2d@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:11:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:

that the  poem does not offend


Larissa, I was not offended and I am a woman. I found your poem humorous  but 
also, insightful. Even the Vagina Monologues play was profound, humorous and  
yet had a strong message.  ~Raven
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From SLIDINGSCA at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:32:55 2007
From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com (SLIDINGSCA at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:32:55 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <ccf.82eaf21.32ed1f07@aol.com>

 
 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:29:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
Rebuketheworld at aol.com writes:

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:11:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:

that  the poem does not offend


Larissa, I was not offended and I am a woman. I found your poem humorous  but 
also, insightful. Even the Vagina Monologues play was profound, humorous  and 
yet had a strong  message.  ~Raven




Hi, Raven: Thanks--the poem does exist to be funny, hopefully with an  edge. 
It's the ancient vagina dentata-Medusa myth, the vagina with  teeth, the 
ultimate in the mysterious and often frightening to the opposite sex.  Something 
like that.
 
Thanks for your good words.
Best,
Larissa
 
Larissa  Shmailo_ slidingsca at aol.com_ (mailto:slidingsca at aol.com) 
_http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld_ (http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld) 
http://blog.myspace.com/larissaworld
http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:40:38 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:40:38 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <d0e.3527003.32ed20d6@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:33:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:

does  exist to be funny


Hello Larissa, I understand the serious message here but the Twelve days of  
Christmas song created a humorous spin for me when I read...
 
 
She?s got:  
Twelve truckers trucking 
Eleven doctors docking 
Ten grocers grossing 
Nine hookers hooking 
Eight fleas a leaping 
Seven lice a laying 
Six scabies scabbing 
Five transexuals 
Four lesbians 
Three old pricks 
Two falling drunks 
And a biker with clap and herpes 
Your not talking about nine drummers drumming but it does offer another  
readers take but your message is profound in its own right. I didnt miss that.  
~Raven
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 16:44:08 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:44:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <c90.6b997f1.32ed1e2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070127214408.13920.qmail@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Well, there you have it Larissa:  Raven has decreed that your poem is not Poetry publication worthy!
  

Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote:
        In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:11:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, SLIDINGSCA at aol.com writes:
  that the poem does not offend
  
  Larissa, I was not offended and I am a woman. I found your poem humorous but also, insightful. Even the Vagina Monologues play was profound, humorous and yet had a strong message.  ~Raven
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


 
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:47:32 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:47:32 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <d65.e5ec6d.32ed2274@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:44:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:

Poetry  publication worthy


Hello Amy, her poem is wonderful. I wish Bukowski was here to offer a  better 
rebuttal than I have. ~Raven
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 16:52:25 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:52:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <d3e.e6be6c.32ed19df@aol.com>
Message-ID: <118872.83779.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

By the way and for the official record (& before we have a spate of folks rushing to the defense that women can write flacid/rank/jealous vagina poems), I wasn't offended.  I was about as unmoved as when the boys on my corner throw down with each other in an effort to tell just how much bigger their dicks are than the next guy's -- they do it with a flourish, clever rhymes, picturesque metaphors, etc, but I rarely, if ever, stop for the show.  
   
  I was curious about who wrote it, and now answered, to what purpose.  I deleted too far ahead.  Pardon~
   
  Is anyone attempting to submit poems now to Poetry that meet John Barr's elusive criteria for the next poetry?  Try pinning/penning that one down ...
  

SLIDINGSCA at aol.com wrote:
        In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
    Who actually wrote this withered vagina poem?

  
  Amy,
   
  This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the poem does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
  -Larissa
   
  Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com
http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


 
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40?  Find a flick in no time
 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 16:52:53 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:52:53 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <c59.c347698.32ed23b5@aol.com>

Larissa, to add another thought on your behalf, the subject title (New  
Poetry- humorous) does add to the readers take. Had it been just New Poetry, I  
might not have thought it was the writers intent although the sarcasm in your  
poem, screams. Its wonderful. ~Raven
 
"So don?t eat out, baby---come home." 
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 16:53:41 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:53:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <d65.e5ec6d.32ed2274@aol.com>
Message-ID: <658433.1614.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Well, since Larissa's self-defined criteria was to offend everyone, and you're not offended, no defense required!  She needs to give it another go and incorporate what offends you, Raven!  
  

Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote:
        In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:44:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
  Poetry publication worthy
  
  Hello Amy, her poem is wonderful. I wish Bukowski was here to offer a better rebuttal than I have. ~Raven
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


 
---------------------------------
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From elemenope at icubed.com  Sat Jan 27 17:07:18 2007
From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:07:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Humorous (Bob Grumman)
In-Reply-To: <200701272032.l0RKWRt6032416@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200701272032.l0RKWRt6032416@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <4119.71.240.126.98.1169935638.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com>

Ron Padgett's potry is a chuckler's riot.
You read it, you scratch your head, "Huh?" "What?"
Then, you chuckle.

Corso cd be funny if you refused to accept his mad claims,
but he insisted you must.  Had to be there but that was
how it was - - with Corso - - a real laff riot.

R.D.





From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 17:04:00 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:04:00 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <d31.2aa6ce9.32ed2650@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:52:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:

how much  bigger their dicks 


I think the long history of mans' ownership of the "vagina" has the winning  
stronger message, lol. 
 
And...
 
I am not a woman who bashes the male gender just the few that the bashing  
pertains too.  Besides, I am 42. An old cat gone in heat,lol. 
 
 
I?m not jealous; I?m merely concerned: 
That other woman, 
Who says she?s thirty-three, 
Who never noticed you before you started seeing me; 
The one who glares at me and smiles at you 
Like an old cat gone in heat? 


Larissa, I was moved. ~Raven
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 17:06:04 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:06:04 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous:  from the Poetry Humor Issue
Message-ID: <d12.53fc643.32ed26cc@aol.com>

 
What Humans Do 
The candlelit 
after dinner 
careful screw, 
the under-the-moon 
shooby doo 
be doo groove, 
the from behind, 
the sixty-nine, 
the is there time, 
the I need wine, 
the twisted talking 
dirty grind, 
the Erica Jong 
zipless screw, 
the I-got-somethin?- 
to-prove ruse, 
the primal bang, 
the power game, 
the long play, 
the itchy-ish, sudden ish 
roll in the hay, 
the take me way, 
the once a month 
married way, 
the hail mary, 
the holy-joe- 
I-can?t-believe- 
my-luck hump, 
the side to side 
slow pump, 
the grudge fuck, 
the quick poke, 
the hard core, 
the tenderest lap 
of waves on the shore, 
and the gushing rushing, 
endless coming 
of I never felt 
this way before. 
--Wendy Videlock 
Poetry July/August 2006
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 17:09:24 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <d31.2aa6ce9.32ed2650@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070127220924.8386.qmail@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Huh?  Are we in the same conversation?

Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote:       
  I am not a woman who bashes the male gender just the few that the bashing pertains too.  Besides, I am 42. An old cat gone in heat,lol. 
   
     


 
---------------------------------
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 17:11:33 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:11:33 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous:  from the Poetry Humor Issue
Message-ID: <d29.341c0df.32ed2815@aol.com>

 
That should've been 'away' in line 22...got
carried away typing I guess... corrected here:

What Humans Do 
The candlelit 
after dinner 
careful screw, 
the under-the-moon 
shooby doo 
be doo groove, 
the from behind, 
the sixty-nine, 
the is there time, 
the I need wine, 
the twisted talking 
dirty grind, 
the Erica Jong 
zipless screw, 
the I-got-somethin?- 
to-prove ruse, 
the primal bang, 
the power game, 
the long play, 
the itchy-ish, sudden ish 
roll in the hay, 
the take me away, 
the once a month 
married way, 
the hail mary, 
the holy-joe- 
I-can?t-believe- 
my-luck hump, 
the side to side 
slow pump, 
the grudge fuck, 
the quick poke, 
the hard core, 
the tenderest lap 
of waves on the shore, 
and the gushing rushing, 
endless coming 
of I never felt 
this way before. 
--Wendy Videlock 
Poetry July/August 2006


 
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 17:13:51 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:13:51 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <bd9.e411499.32ed289f@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 2:09:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:

Are we  in the same conversation?



Yes, I was merely disagreeing with you that the message in her poem was  
unmoving. ~Raven
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From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 17:15:53 2007
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:15:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <20070127220924.8386.qmail@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <265965.85861.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

But who implied that you were bashing the male gender?

amy king <amyhappens at yahoo.com> wrote:  Huh?  Are we in the same conversation?

Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote:        
  I am not a woman who bashes the male gender just the few that the bashing pertains too.  Besides, I am 42. An old cat gone in heat,lol. 
   
     

    
---------------------------------
  Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out._______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


 
---------------------------------
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 17:23:56 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:23:56 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
Message-ID: <c40.e843c5e.32ed2afc@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 2:16:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:

But who  implied that you were bashing the male gender?


Hey Amy, no-one did. 
 
I just wanted to make my male bashing record clear considering I offered  the 
comparison of the bigger dick vrs. mans' ownership of the "vagina"  argument. 
I do not want to come across as a person whose ruled by stereotypes  while 
stating her poem had a profound message to me. 
 
 
Larissa, I really liked this line too~  Her vagina is an attic in the summer, 
a New York studio for rent,
 
~Raven
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From Rebuketheworld at aol.com  Sat Jan 27 17:24:51 2007
From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com (Rebuketheworld at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:24:51 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous:  from the Poetry Humor Issue
Message-ID: <cd0.83530a0.32ed2b33@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/27/2007 2:12:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

What Humans Do


What can I say,  I enjoyed this poem too. ~Raven 
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 18:08:36 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:08:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous
References: <7CF2CCFA-869B-45EE-8A75-222900387A9D@ripon.edu><00cb01c74237$8225d360$e7a93452@ANNY><D84C9B1F-091E-4E37-93BF-849221E46914@ripon.edu><00fc01c7423f$2f5263d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><021201c74241$c75fa4b0$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><001d01c7424a$53e10f20$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<025b01c74251$d82fe470$3dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00cd01c74268$1314a2e0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Pistols at dawn.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorous



   
    Bob...just kidding.

    Are you saying I don't have a sense of humor!

    (I was just musing.)

    --Bob


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 18:10:29 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:10:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <d3e.e6be6c.32ed19df@aol.com>
Message-ID: <015701c74268$569c3be0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I. for one, am shocked.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Humorous


  In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
    Who actually wrote this withered vagina poem?
  Amy,

  This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the poem does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
  -Larissa

  Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com
  http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
  http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
  http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
  http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 18:39:06 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:39:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <d3e.e6be6c.32ed19df@aol.com>
Message-ID: <022a01c7426c$55fc2e80$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

OK, I'll toss one into the ring. I'll give a little history on it. This is from my novel in verse, "Situations." I originally wrote "Situations" as what I called an epic newsletter -- a mock epic, in newsletter format, sent out to about 100 subscribers. I wrote it from week to week, taking each weekly inspiration from that week's one-sentence synopses of four TV sitcoms in the Daily News. Which meant that from week to week, I didn't know where my plot was going, or which of my characters would move to center stage.
When I was on episode 14, and thinking that I would wrap the whole thing up in just a few more episodes, I arrived at a plot twist which involved an orgy. 

After I'd finished writing it, I decided it had been too easy, and too much fun to write, so I needed to give myself more of a challenge. So I wrote in a pledge -- no more sex scenes:


We've reached our story's pornographic climax.

>From here on for our heroes, sex is fini.

They're on to quantum, quarks and metaphysics;

The Major's limp as overcooked linguini,


I sent this on to my subscribers, and was therefore committed to it, but I figured that would be easy enough, since I was only going to do a few more. Then I mentioned the project to a friend, more of a classicist than myself, who said, Oh, no, if it's an epic, it has to have 24 chapters. So...who was I to argue? But that meant I had to avoid sex for 10 more episodes. 

How hard could it be? I'd just switch to violence -- it was time to kill off a few characters, anyway. 

But then I got a letter from a woman named Fiona Giles, telling me that Michael Hathaway at Chiron Review had recommended me for a project she was doing. She had edited a successful anthology called Dick for a Day: What Would You Do If You Had One?, and was following it up with a companion anthology of writing by men, to be called Jane for a Day -- ultimately it came out as Chick for a Day. Did I have anything for it?

Well, I didn't, but what if The Major, the main character of Situations, were to have a temporary sex change operation? it could work...but I had already promised "no sex" to my readers. So I had to finesse around that -- a sex change operation, but no actual sex.

So...here's how it came out. The first line, in italics, actually went as left-hand-margin gloss, in the style of Rime of the Ancient Mariner, and was one of my TV sitcom synopses.




Episode XVII
 

The Major wants to adopt the girls.

 

The Major in retirement: he plays

Checkers on the Internet; he melts

Bullets to make lead soldiers (Green Berets);

He mostly wishes he were someone else.

 

He joins blue-veined Elizabeth at rest;

As if he'd never seen them, he explores

Her female parts, and says, "I'd wish for just

One day to try out those girl things of yours."

 

"Dear Major," says Elizabeth, "You might

Be just a bit more circumspect with wishes.

No reason why it shouldn't be all right,

But you could still be under one of Trisha's

 

Long shelf-life spells." He chuckles, "I don't think so." 

He gets up, dons his military costume,

Heads for the door. "Sweetheart, before you go," 

She says, "you'd better use the little boy's room." 

 

He notes, with absent-minded irritation,

The seat's left up (not heretofore an issue).

He lowers it, prepares for urination

By sitting down and reaching for a tissue.

 

This can't be right! He rises to attention,

Does an about face to address the bowl.

He reaches for his natural extension,

Comes up a good five inches less than whole.

 

So.is The Major shocked by this? Well, sort of.

His masculinity is so ingrained,

He has to let it sink in what he's short of

Before he stops to check out what he's gained.

 

Elizabeth was right-he's been possessed.

He starts to call her, then opts for discretion.

This may be better kept close to the chest.

Speaking of which.he checks. Yep, more possession.

 

He tells her that he's not to be disturbed;

He's working on his keynote for the Legion.

His curiosity now won't be curbed,

He heads directly for his nether region.

 

He sits and stares, and wonders what to do with it.

He runs through all his fantasies of lust,

But now he's not so sure he could go through with it-

He doubts he'd find a man that he could trust.

 

He thinks he'd better take it for a test drive.

He gives himself encomia: who comes

With more technique than he has for a nest dive?

To his dismay, he finds himself all thumbs.

 

No matter how he presses, pokes, cajoles,

He gets no more response than from a teapot.

He keeps on getting lost among the folds;

Where is his clitoris? Does he have a G-spot?

 

Too bad he can't do what he does with engines;

He'd brace it upright on his workbench, fix

It in a vise, go at it with a vengeance,

Dismantle it to find out how it ticks.

 

There's got to be an Army training manual.

He grabs the phone and dials the PX.

He requisitions the updated annual

GI edition Girl's First Guide To Sex, 

 

Delivered after twenty minutes waiting

By a demure corporal. He starts

At Section Ten Point Seven: Masturbating,

Complete with checklist, diagrams and charts.

 

Maybe this thing's got more complexity

Than what you would have thought-to get a handle

He'll need to study-this calls for chablis,

A bubble bath, Patchouli, and a candle.

 

Cigar among the bubbles, hand in air

Poking his laptop, number-crunching, poring

Through techno-intricacies, unaware

The other hand is in his lap, exploring.

 

Subject: apparent female organs. Status:

On standby. Tentative conclusion: freak

Malfunction due to faulty apparatus.

The Major knows it can't be his technique-

 

All the chicks tell him he's the best. Blue-veined 

Elizabeth has hailed him as the master

(Hasn't she?) Etienne's never complained,

though, come to think of it, he's never asked her.

 

Musing, he's caught off guard by a sensation

That spills his Merlot, sends his laptop crashing.

His unfamiliar part's a conflagration,

He's howling, sobbing, moaning, flailing, thrashing.

 

"Dearest," Elizabeth calls out, "are you

All right?" just as he's on his final spasm.

"Yes, my sweet one," he croaks. "I stubbed my toe

Against the sink." Now, that was an orgasm.    

 

Those women have it made, with guys like me

To do 'em. Then a troubling, if belated

Further reflection: Wha'd I do, exactly?

Don't even know if I could recreate it.

 

Male ego fast succumbing to fragility,

Acute self-doubt arising to befuddle him,

He questions the existence of virility,

And wishes he had someone there to cuddle him.

 

Time's running out, and still he hasn't tried it, 

And still he's of two minds-it seems to work;

Shouldn't he try once with a man inside it?

He doesn't want to waste it on some jerk,

 

Precious as gold, or frankincense, or jasmine,

Not to be given up without a fight;

And yet.he wants the world to know he has one.

He grabs a raincoat, drives into the night.

 

He parks his car outside the VFW,

He stops a group of sailors as they climb

The front steps: "Fellas, I don't mean to trouble you,

But check this out!" He hears the church bells chime

 

The stroke of midnight. Now, rather than tangled

Exotic bush, to his dismay, he sees

The same thing they do: what has always dangled

In its familiar spot, fanned by the breeze.

 

              *                         *                      *

 

As per their ritual, Elizabeth 

Waits for her Major to begin his foreplay

With some great tale of how he cheated death

With Monty, or the ski patrols of Norway.

 

She waits demurely in her flannel nightie.

"Surely there's some brave deed you haven't told me

To get you hard, my darling?" "Not tonight," he 

Grunts. Then, in softer tones, "Just hold me." 



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Humorous


  In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
    Who actually wrote this withered vagina poem?
  Amy,

  This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the poem does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
  -Larissa

  Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com
  http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
  http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
  http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
  http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Jan 27 19:02:55 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:02:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan on Crane complete
References: <d1d.3520b9e.32ed1a62@aol.com>
Message-ID: <036b01c7426f$a9c5bce0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Logan, without the acid jazz of trying to epater ses contemporains, turns out to be just another critic of no particular insight, and no stylistic excitement.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:13 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan on Crane complete


  http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/26/news/idbriefs27E.php

  Review: Complete Poems and Selected Letters of Hart Crane
  By William Logan Published: January 26, 2007
   
  Hart Crane Complete Poems and Selected Letters. Edited by Langdon Hammer. 849 pages. $40. The Library of America. 


  Before Hart Crane's leap into the Caribbean that fatal April noon in 1932, he folded his jacket over the ship's rail with impeccable manners. Striking out into the glassy sea, he was seen no more, dying younger than Byron but older than Shelley. Not being a seagoing breed, poets rarely die by water -



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From edmundhardy at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 27 20:07:32 2007
From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 01:07:32 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] I.S. 2007:1 28/01
In-Reply-To: <200701272032.l0RKWRt6032416@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY132-F332A1608280D6961656E56BAA00@phx.gbl>

I.S. 2007:1 28/01
"Intercapillary Space" - a collaborative poetry magazine

December / January Contents:
http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2007/01/dec-jan-contents.html

"A distribution of the sensible"


POETRY

David Berridge: Polyphony of Warning

M. T. C. Cronin: from GOD IS WAITING / GOD IS WEIRD

steve dalachinsky: blank space in a car pool (jaap blonk @ bowery poetry 
club)

Mark Dickinson: from, Nematode

Peter Hughes: Berlioz Parts 3 and 4

Peter Larkin: From ?Shade? (At Wall With The Approach Of Trees, 2)

Lawrence Upton: Pete Kubryk-Townsend


GILES GOODLAND

Collage Capital: An Interview with Edmund Hardy

Dead Capital, Sleeping Capital, Symbolic Capital


ESSAYS

Emily Critchley: Dilemmatic boundaries: constructing a poetics of thinking

John Muckle: Why I Wrote Martha and Mary

Abena Sutherland: The Pasteurization of Andrew Duncan


BOOK REVIEWS

Arielle Greenberg, My Kafka Century (Action Books)

Peter Larkin, Leaves of Field (Shearsman)

Peter Manson, For The Good of Liars (Barque)

D. S. Marriott: Incognegro (Salt)

Cathal ? Searcaigh, By the Hearth in M?n a? Le? (Arc)

The Peter Redgrove Library, The Colour of Radio & The Sleep of the Great 
Hypnotist

Catherine Wagner, Imitating (Leafe)

James Wilkes, A DeTour (Renscombe)


CLOSE READINGS

Michael Peverett on Shakespeare's Sonnet 81

Melissa Flores-B?rquez on Anne Waldman's 'Lethe'


PLUS CAPSULE ESSAYS

Aristotle's Divination In Sleep

Alphaville Text: ?luard, Karina, Godard, Kelly Osbourne's 'One Word'

Rem Koolhaas' EU Flag

On The Twelfth Night: Shakespeare and Berlioz

Orlando Furioso In English


LAUNCH OF "Intercapillary Editions"

A new series of free eBooks featuring critical essays, poetry and new 
editions of classic texts.

1. Emily Critchley: Dilemmatic boundaries: constructing a poetics of 
thinking
An essay by Emily Critchley. 17 pages. 177 KB.

2. Orlando Furioso
John Harington's 1591 translation of Lodovico Ariosto's 'Orlando Furioso'. 
901 pages. 3550 KB

3. Joshua Stanley: Litany
A poem. 6 pages. 77 KB.

_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile.  
http://www.msn.txt4content.com/



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Jan 27 23:04:04 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:04:04 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan on Crane complete
In-Reply-To: <d1d.3520b9e.32ed1a62@aol.com>
References: <d1d.3520b9e.32ed1a62@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A130A1E5-E474-40ED-88A8-726C41E69E73@ripon.edu>

A really fine review of Logan's book of criticism, *The Undiscovered  
Country*,  on the *Verse* blog-- by Brian Henry:

http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html


On Jan 27, 2007, at 3:13 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/26/news/idbriefs27E.php
>
> Review: Complete Poems and Selected Letters of Hart Crane
> By William Logan Published: January 26, 2007
>
========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 28 06:38:24 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:38:24 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
Message-ID: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY>

Taken from: http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/litoral/litoral4.html



 Indeed, people often say 'there are no words to describe how I feel'. As Edward Ballard puts it: 

Many of the most typical human experiences, such as experiences of introjection, decision, anxiety, insight, self-awareness, self-identity seem in fact to be resistant to precise and literal description even in languages having the richest logical resources. The immediacy characteristic of these experiences (or aspects of experience)... offers nothing to formalize. (Ballard, 1978: 213) 

It is unlikely that there is anyone who has not experienced the frustration of being, on some occasion, 'at a loss for words'. All we can say is that 'I can't explain' or 'I don't know how to say this'. Where I feel obliged to use language which I nevertheless find inadequate, I may feel that language is 'coming between' 'me' and an 'experience'. Or I may feel that I have been lured by language into allowing an experience to be shaped by the words I 'find myself using'. 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 08:09:20 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 08:09:20 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>


Taken from: http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/litoral/litoral4.html

 Indeed, people often say 'there are no words to describe how I feel'. As Edward Ballard puts it: 

Many of the most typical human experiences, such as experiences of introjection, decision, anxiety, insight, self-awareness, self-identity seem in fact to be resistant to precise and literal description even in languages having the richest logical resources. The immediacy characteristic of these experiences (or aspects of experience)... offers nothing to formalize. (Ballard, 1978: 213) 

It is unlikely that there is anyone who has not experienced the frustration of being, on some occasion, 'at a loss for words'. All we can say is that 'I can't explain' or 'I don't know how to say this'. Where I feel obliged to use language which I nevertheless find inadequate, I may feel that language is 'coming between' 'me' and an 'experience'. Or I may feel that I have been lured by language into allowing an experience to be shaped by the words I 'find myself using'. 

Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at a loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can cover everything.

--Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 28 10:39:21 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:39:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
Message-ID: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>

_http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html_ 
(http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html) 
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
NEW! Review of William Logan 
 
The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William Logan.  
Columbia University Press, $29.50.
 
Reviewed by Brian Henry
 
William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the so-called  
tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns his living by 
teaching  in an MFA program, thus contributing to the very machine whose products he  
loathes. His talents and tastes would seem better-suited to a PhD program, 
but  cultural studies and literary theory have taken over, shunning the likes of 
 Logan (or so he would argue). Stuck with the poetry of this time, Logan 
rages  against it. 
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From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sun Jan 28 10:43:35 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:43:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <bc1.b259612.32ed1861@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV2A1FC0181E7E7B35F3C02D9A00@phx.gbl>

I personally try to pee my pants as often as possible.


On 1/27/07 4:04 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 1/27/2007 12:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> halvard at earthlink.net writes:
>> she  pulled rank, and simply repeated her assertion.  She also claimed that,
>> serving as a reader for *Poetry*, she's in a better position to know than I
>> am.
> The editors must have found some poems in the slush pile...because they
> put out a Humor Issue in the past few months. It's around here somewhere
> and if I turn it up I'll post one they considered amusing...
>  
> Maybe she's got a different idea of what is really humorous...
> Does it just make you smile or does it get a full ear-to-ear grin, does it
> elicit 
> an audible chuckle, or do you burst out laughing and start rolling around on
> floor 
> until you pee your pants? There's a range of course and Christine Pugh
> might be hard to tickle.
>  
> Finnegan
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 28 10:44:17 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:44:17 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
Message-ID: <c9f.8897d9d.32ee1ed1@aol.com>

 
oops...I see David Graham just posted a similar  announcement...
 
 
In a message dated 1/28/2007 10:39:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

_http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html_ 
(http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html) 
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
NEW! Review of William Logan 
 
The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William Logan.  
Columbia University Press, $29.50.
 
Reviewed by Brian Henry
 
William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the  so-called 
tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns his living  by 
teaching in an MFA program, thus contributing to the very machine whose  products he 
loathes. His talents and tastes would seem better-suited to a PhD  program, 
but cultural studies and literary theory have taken over, shunning  the likes 
of Logan (or so he would argue). Stuck with the poetry of this time,  Logan 
rages against it. 



 
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From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sun Jan 28 10:44:26 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:44:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <d3e.e6be6c.32ed19df@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV10144018EF1F79DCCA74E0D9A00@phx.gbl>

Cheers with another pint!


On 1/27/07 4:10 PM, "SLIDINGSCA at aol.com" <SLIDINGSCA at aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
>>  
>> Who actually wrote this withered vagina poem?
> Amy,
>  
> This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the poem
> does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
> -Larissa
>  
> Larissa Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com <mailto:slidingsca at aol.com>
> http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
> http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
> http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
> http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From hawkbrwn at msn.com  Sun Jan 28 10:59:55 2007
From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:59:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
In-Reply-To: <022a01c7426c$55fc2e80$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <BAY133-DAV2CFC91EDF6C475FD5A325D9A00@phx.gbl>

I love it!  I?m impressed by your description of the project you put
yourself to.  The resulting episode you?re posted here was a fun (and
well-written) read.  People rely on sex as humor so often, it?s nice to read
a poem that tilts that off center and goes at it from a different direction


On 1/27/07 6:39 PM, "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org> wrote:

> OK, I'll toss one into the ring. I'll give a little history on it. This is
> from my novel in verse, "Situations." I originally wrote "Situations" as what
> I called an epic newsletter -- a mock epic, in newsletter format, sent out to
> about 100 subscribers. I wrote it from week to week, taking each weekly
> inspiration from that week's one-sentence synopses of four TV sitcoms in the
> Daily News. Which meant that from week to week, I didn't know where my plot
> was going, or which of my characters would move to center stage.
> When I was on episode 14, and thinking that I would wrap the whole thing up in
> just a few more episodes, I arrived at a plot twist which involved an orgy.
>  
> After I'd finished writing it, I decided it had been too easy, and too much
> fun to write, so I needed to give myself more of a challenge. So I wrote in a
> pledge -- no more sex scenes:
>  
>  
> We've reached our story's pornographic climax.
> From here on for our heroes, sex is fini.
> They're on to quantum, quarks and metaphysics;
> The Major's limp as overcooked linguini,
>  
> I sent this on to my subscribers, and was therefore committed to it, but I
> figured that would be easy enough, since I was only going to do a few more.
> Then I mentioned the project to a friend, more of a classicist than myself,
> who said, Oh, no, if it's an epic, it has to have 24 chapters. So...who was I
> to argue? But that meant I had to avoid sex for 10 more episodes.
>  
> How hard could it be? I'd just switch to violence -- it was time to kill off a
> few characters, anyway.
>  
> But then I got a letter from a woman named Fiona Giles, telling me that
> Michael Hathaway at Chiron Review had recommended me for a project she was
> doing. She had edited a successful anthology called Dick for a Day: What Would
> You Do If You Had One?, and was following it up with a companion anthology of
> writing by men, to be called Jane for a Day -- ultimately it came out as Chick
> for a Day. Did I have anything for it?
>  
> Well, I didn't, but what if The Major, the main character of Situations, were
> to have a temporary sex change operation? it could work...but I had already
> promised "no sex" to my readers. So I had to finesse around that -- a sex
> change operation, but no actual sex.
>  
> So...here's how it came out. The first line, in italics, actually went as
> left-hand-margin gloss, in the style of Rime of the Ancient Mariner, and was
> one of my TV sitcom synopses.
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Episode XVII
>  
> The Major wants to adopt the girls.
> 
>  
> The Major in retirement: he plays
> Checkers on the Internet; he melts
> Bullets to make lead soldiers (Green Berets);
> He mostly wishes he were someone else.
>  
> He joins blue-veined Elizabeth at rest;
> As if he?d never seen them, he explores
> Her female parts, and says, ?I?d wish for just
> One day to try out those girl things of yours.?
>  
> ?Dear Major,? says Elizabeth, ?You might
> Be just a bit more circumspect with wishes.
> No reason why it shouldn't be all right,
> But you could still be under one of Trisha?s
>  
> Long shelf-life spells.? He chuckles, ?I don't think so.?
> He gets up, dons his military costume,
> Heads for the door. ?Sweetheart, before you go,?
> She says, ?you?d better use the little boy's room.?
>  
> He notes, with absent-minded irritation,
> The seat's left up (not heretofore an issue).
> He lowers it, prepares for urination
> By sitting down and reaching for a tissue.
>  
> This can't be right! He rises to attention,
> Does an about face to address the bowl.
> He reaches for his natural extension,
> Comes up a good five inches less than whole.
>  
> So?is The Major shocked by this? Well, sort of.
> His masculinity is so ingrained,
> He has to let it sink in what he's short of
> Before he stops to check out what he's gained.
>  
> Elizabeth was right?he's been possessed.
> He starts to call her, then opts for discretion.
> This may be better kept close to the chest.
> Speaking of which?he checks. Yep, more possession.
>  
> He tells her that he's not to be disturbed;
> He's working on his keynote for the Legion.
> His curiosity now won't be curbed,
> He heads directly for his nether region.
>  
> He sits and stares, and wonders what to do with it.
> He runs through all his fantasies of lust,
> But now he's not so sure he could go through with it?
> He doubts he'd find a man that he could trust.
>  
> He thinks he'd better take it for a test drive.
> He gives himself encomia: who comes
> With more technique than he has for a nest dive?
> To his dismay, he finds himself all thumbs.
>  
> No matter how he presses, pokes, cajoles,
> He gets no more response than from a teapot.
> He keeps on getting lost among the folds;
> Where is his clitoris? Does he have a G-spot?
>  
> Too bad he can't do what he does with engines;
> He'd brace it upright on his workbench, fix
> It in a vise, go at it with a vengeance,
> Dismantle it to find out how it ticks.
>  
> There's got to be an Army training manual.
> He grabs the phone and dials the PX.
> He requisitions the updated annual
> GI edition Girl's First Guide To Sex,
>  
> Delivered after twenty minutes waiting
> By a demure corporal. He starts
> At Section Ten Point Seven: Masturbating,
> Complete with checklist, diagrams and charts.
>  
> Maybe this thing's got more complexity
> Than what you would have thought?to get a handle
> He'll need to study?this calls for chablis,
> A bubble bath, Patchouli, and a candle.
>  
> Cigar among the bubbles, hand in air
> Poking his laptop, number-crunching, poring
> Through techno-intricacies, unaware
> The other hand is in his lap, exploring.
>  
> Subject: apparent female organs. Status:
> On standby. Tentative conclusion: freak
> Malfunction due to faulty apparatus.
> The Major knows it can't be his technique?
>  
> All the chicks tell him he's the best. Blue-veined
> Elizabeth has hailed him as the master
> (Hasn't she?) Etienne's never complained,
> though, come to think of it, he's never asked her.
>  
> Musing, he's caught off guard by a sensation
> That spills his Merlot, sends his laptop crashing.
> His unfamiliar part's a conflagration,
> He's howling, sobbing, moaning, flailing, thrashing.
>  
> ?Dearest,? Elizabeth calls out, ?are you
> All right?? just as he's on his final spasm.
> ?Yes, my sweet one,? he croaks. ?I stubbed my toe
> Against the sink.? Now, that was an orgasm.
>  
> Those women have it made, with guys like me
> To do 'em. Then a troubling, if belated
> Further reflection: Wha'd I do, exactly?
> Don't even know if I could recreate it.
>  
> Male ego fast succumbing to fragility,
> Acute self-doubt arising to befuddle him,
> He questions the existence of virility,
> And wishes he had someone there to cuddle him.
>  
> Time's running out, and still he hasn't tried it,
> And still he's of two minds?it seems to work;
> Shouldn't he try once with a man inside it?
> He doesn't want to waste it on some jerk,
>  
> Precious as gold, or frankincense, or jasmine,
> Not to be given up without a fight;
> And yet?he wants the world to know he has one?
> He grabs a raincoat, drives into the night.
>  
> He parks his car outside the VFW,
> He stops a group of sailors as they climb
> The front steps: ?Fellas, I don't mean to trouble you,
> But check this out!? He hears the church bells chime
>  
> The stroke of midnight. Now, rather than tangled
> Exotic bush, to his dismay, he sees
> The same thing they do: what has always dangled
> In its familiar spot, fanned by the breeze.
>  
>               *                         *                      *
>  
> As per their ritual, Elizabeth
> Waits for her Major to begin his foreplay
> With some great tale of how he cheated death
> With Monty, or the ski patrols of Norway.
>  
> She waits demurely in her flannel nightie.
> ?Surely there's some brave deed you haven't told me
> To get you hard, my darling?? ?Not tonight,? he
> Grunts. Then, in softer tones, ?Just hold me.?
>  
>  
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>  
>> From:  SLIDINGSCA at aol.com
>>  
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>  
>> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:10  PM
>>  
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Humorous
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
>>  
>>>  
>>> Who actually wrote this withered vagina  poem?
>>  
>>  
>> Amy,
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the  poem
>> does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
>>  
>> -Larissa
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Larissa  Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com <mailto:slidingsca at aol.com>
>> http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
>> http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
>> http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
>> http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing  list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 28 11:06:44 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:06:44 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] "Revolutionary Sonnet"
Message-ID: <22D0B729-80CD-40EB-B8E4-2F60123E603D@earthlink.net>


Revolutionary Sonnet

To horse between the news article and the fiction
of the nearby V?zquez Mountains, by order of no one
in particular. The later murder creates an imaginary

fable, as told by American college students who will
conclude tragically. Small revolutionary episodes,
profesores unwilling to return to class after their long

lunches. Truncated ethics of resistance. Of the corpse,
no sign. Purity aureoles of central personages, less stable
than imagined. His doctoral thesis shows impostures

of the ruling junta, mysteries solved with doubtless
technical skill, manifesting ideological functions of text,
very much like creatures equipped with their own lives.

Lacking both doctrinal force and novelistic substance,
his story (of inverse sign) does him no palpable honor.



Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 11:23:29 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 11:23:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c742f8$a7867d00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William Logan. Columbia University Press, $29.50.

  Reviewed by Brian Henry

  William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the so-called tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns his living by teaching in an MFA program, thus contributing to the very machine whose products he loathes. His talents and tastes would seem better-suited to a PhD program, but cultural studies and literary theory have taken over, shunning the likes of Logan (or so he would argue). Stuck with the poetry of this time, Logan rages against it. 
  Sorry, Brian, but Logan is not "Stuck with the poetry of his time." Logan insulates himself from the poetry of his time in a little hole he's dug out of the poetry of the 1950's and 1960's that a horde of mediocrities have extended into our time and that he can feel superior to.

  --Bob G.
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Jan 28 11:51:28 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:51:28 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
In-Reply-To: <002c01c742f8$a7867d00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
	<002c01c742f8$a7867d00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <3ADF4160-C022-445E-AC96-FBDA923BF84D@ripon.edu>


On Jan 28, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:

>
>
> The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William  
> Logan. Columbia University Press, $29.50.
>
> Reviewed by Brian Henry
>
> William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the so- 
> called tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns  
> his living by teaching in an MFA program, thus contributing to the  
> very machine whose products he loathes. His talents and tastes  
> would seem better-suited to a PhD program, but cultural studies and  
> literary theory have taken over, shunning the likes of Logan (or so  
> he would argue). Stuck with the poetry of this time, Logan rages  
> against it.
> Sorry, Brian, but Logan is not "Stuck with the poetry of his time."  
> Logan insulates himself from the poetry of his time in a little  
> hole he's dug out of the poetry of the 1950's and 1960's that a  
> horde of mediocrities have extended into our time and that he can  
> feel superior to.
>
> --Bob G
===========================

Actually, Bob, if you read the entire review you'd see that one of  
Henry's chief complaints about Logan is that he doesn't know the  
territory of American poetry very well at all, that his taste is  
extremely narrow and focused mainly on poets from the big New York  
presses, that he seldom makes any off-the-beaten track discoveries.   
You've just reiterated one of Henry's main points.
========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sun Jan 28 12:44:38 2007
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:44:38 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
In-Reply-To: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>

"Logan's inability to find worthwhile poetry seems due, in part, to
his looking for it in the wrong places," writes Brian Henry.  So, what
are the "right" places?  What bin on the poetry aisle do you head for?

- Jim

On 1/28/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
> http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html
> Wednesday, January 24, 2007
> NEW! Review of William Logan
>
> The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William Logan.
> Columbia University Press, $29.50.
>
> Reviewed by Brian Henry
>
> William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the so-called
> tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns his living by
> teaching in an MFA program, thus contributing to the very machine whose
> products he loathes. His talents and tastes would seem better-suited to a
> PhD program, but cultural studies and literary theory have taken over,
> shunning the likes of Logan (or so he would argue). Stuck with the poetry of
> this time, Logan rages against it.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 12:52:52 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:52:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com><002c01c742f8$a7867d00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<3ADF4160-C022-445E-AC96-FBDA923BF84D@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <005501c74305$24cb01d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>


 
      The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William Logan. Columbia University Press, $29.50.

      Reviewed by Brian Henry

      William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the so-called tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns his living by teaching in an MFA program, thus contributing to the very machine whose products he loathes. His talents and tastes would seem better-suited to a PhD program, but cultural studies and literary theory have taken over, shunning the likes of Logan (or so he would argue). Stuck with the poetry of this time, Logan rages against it. 
      Sorry, Brian, but Logan is not "Stuck with the poetry of his time." Logan insulates himself from the poetry of his time in a little hole he's dug out of the poetry of the 1950's and 1960's that a horde of mediocrities have extended into our time and that he can feel superior to. 

      --Bob G

  Actually, Bob, if you read the entire review you'd see that one of Henry's chief complaints about Logan is that he doesn't know the territory of American poetry very well at all, that his taste is extremely narrow and focused mainly on poets from the big New York presses, that he seldom makes any off-the-beaten track discoveries.  You've just reiterated one of Henry's main points.


  That he later contradicts himself does not mean I was inaccurate concerning what is in the passage I was responding to.  But I'm glad to hear he does agree with me about Logan's narrow range--and I'll get around to reading his entire review sometime, I'm sure.

  --Bob G.
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Jan 28 12:59:55 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 11:59:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Logan gets reviewed
In-Reply-To: <648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
	<648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31728127-429A-4CF0-B2A4-20301F539B38@ripon.edu>

I tend to agree with Brian Henry, myself, in that much of the poetry  
that I find interesting is not coming from Knopf, Norton, or FSG  
these days, but from some of the presses he names, among others.  I  
mean, it's a long list, isn't it?  Sarabande, Coffee House, Story  
Line, Pittsburgh, Illinois, Iowa, Copper Canyon, U Chicago. . . .

In any case, as Henry also notes, the sheer #s of books appearing  
from such presses collectively dwarfs the output of the few presses  
Logan notices.

Before Bob G says so, I'll also note that I'm well aware that all the  
above could be called "mainstream" presses.  There are, naturally, a  
host of even less visible publishers out there, not to mention online  
stuff.

The mainstream is where my own taste tends to lead me, but Logan  
apparently either doesn't know about or doesn't care for such poets  
as Patricia Smith (Coffee House, Zoland Books), Susan Firer  
(Cleveland State, Backwaters Press), Cynthia Huntington (Alice James,  
Four Way Books), David Berman (Open City), John Balaban (Copper  
Canyon), et al.


On Jan 28, 2007, at 11:44 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> "Logan's inability to find worthwhile poetry seems due, in part, to
> his looking for it in the wrong places," writes Brian Henry.  So, what
> are the "right" places?  What bin on the poetry aisle do you head for?
>
> - Jim



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 13:06:49 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:06:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
	<648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005a01c74307$16aff1d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> "Logan's inability to find worthwhile poetry seems due, in part, to
> his looking for it in the wrong places," writes Brian Henry.

Logan isn't looking for it.  He's just restricting himself to review copies 
he gets from certified publishers of knowstream poetry.

So, what
> are the "right" places?  What bin on the poetry aisle do you head for?
>
> - Jim

Your use of the words, "poetry aisle," and "bin" explains your problem, Jim. 
You don't go to some public library or standard bookstore to find the right 
places.  Nowadays, you go to the Internet and visit a few poetry places like 
this one.  Here, for instance, you'd soon find out that there are people 
like me who talk about poetry you won't (likely) find in any "poetry aisle." 
All you have to do, then, is read these people, and go where they suggest 
you look.  It may take you time to find otherstream stuff you like, but 
without too much effort you should be able to.

Before the Internet, it was harder.  I'm not sure how I found out about my 
kind of poetry.  I'm sure some reference to it seeped into some mainstream 
publication, and I followed up on it.  I do know that big book of 
publishers, Writers' Market, helped.  That's where I found that KALDRON 
published what was then called concrete poetry.  I wrote its editor and he 
told me about the other such publications that were around.  Word of mouth 
from then on.  Plus my writing about otherstream work in the micro-press, 
which encouraged people writing and/or publishing it to send stuff to me.

--Bob G. 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 13:50:51 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:50:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Logan gets reviewed
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com><648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<31728127-429A-4CF0-B2A4-20301F539B38@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <007c01c7430d$3dbfbc00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:59 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Logan gets reviewed


  I tend to agree with Brian Henry, myself, in that much of the poetry that I find interesting is not coming from Knopf, Norton, or FSG these days, but from some of the presses he names, among others.  I mean, it's a long list, isn't it?  Sarabande, Coffee House, Story Line, Pittsburgh, Illinois, Iowa, Copper Canyon, U Chicago. . . .


  In any case, as Henry also notes, the sheer #s of books appearing from such presses collectively dwarfs the output of the few presses Logan notices.  


  Before Bob G says so, I'll also note that I'm well aware that all the above could be called "mainstream" presses.  There are, naturally, a host of even less visible publishers out there, not to mention online stuff.  


  The mainstream is where my own taste tends to lead me, but Logan apparently either doesn't know about or doesn't care for such poets as Patricia Smith (Coffee House, Zoland Books), Susan Firer (Cleveland State, Backwaters Press), Cynthia Huntington (Alice James, Four Way Books), David Berman (Open City), John Balaban (Copper Canyon), et al.  


  Since I do lump the presses you name with the mainstream presses, David, and consider the poetry they publish hugely more like what Knopf, et al, publishes than like what otherstream presses publish, the interesting question of why Logan neglects them does arise.  If he does.  I have not paid any attention to who publishes the stuff he reviews, so wouldn't know.  Perhaps he rates poets' worthiness of review by the prestige of who it is that publishes them.  Or, yes, I guess the reviewer said it: he just reviews books published in New York?



  --Bob G.






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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Jan 28 14:28:26 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:28:26 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY>
	<003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/28/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Taken from:
> http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/litoral/litoral4.html
>
>  Indeed, people often say 'there are no words to describe how I feel'. As
> Edward Ballard puts it:

> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at a
> loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can cover
> everything.
>
> --Bob G.
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

Which language is that then? The english language - and it's child
variants - can't adequately cover every *sound* their users make. For
example, we really should have a separate symbol for th. Why do you
think, that aaaarh, eyew, "the language" can cover "everything".
Japanese, just to pull an example out of the air, has more words for
more fetishes than I can even think of or stomach. And emotions which
I've not even thought of.

Text doesn't cover *everything* Unless you're a closet post-modernist, that is.

Roger

-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 14:47:43 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:47:43 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> On 1/28/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Taken from:
>> http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/litoral/litoral4.html
>>
>>  Indeed, people often say 'there are no words to describe how I feel'. As
>> Edward Ballard puts it:
>
>> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at a
>> loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can cover
>> everything.
>>
>> --Bob G.
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> Which language is that then? The english language - and it's child
> variants - can't adequately cover every *sound* their users make. For
> example, we really should have a separate symbol for th. Why do you
> think, that aaaarh, eyew, "the language" can cover "everything".
> Japanese, just to pull an example out of the air, has more words for
> more fetishes than I can even think of or stomach. And emotions which
> I've not even thought of.
>
> Text doesn't cover *everything* Unless you're a closet post-modernist, 
> that is.
>
> Roger

Every thing in existence, and all relationships between things, can be named 
by language.  Therefore, language can cover everything.  (Sufficiently, I 
should probably add.)

--Bob G.





From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 28 15:26:24 2007
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:26:24 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan gets reviewed
In-Reply-To: <648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d58.f118f0.32ee1da9@aol.com>
	<648208b60701280944s74d3f61duc6eece0e3c4322ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48A3DD92-425D-4CA9-94E4-ABED04B72139@earthlink.net>

Remainders. That's the bin.
Also try Used.

Hal

           CLO ED
               FOR
       REN VATION

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
http://www.hamiltonstone.org

On Jan 28, 2007, at 11:44 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> "Logan's inability to find worthwhile poetry seems due, in part, to
> his looking for it in the wrong places," writes Brian Henry.  So, what
> are the "right" places?  What bin on the poetry aisle do you head for?
>
> - Jim
>
> On 1/28/07, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://versemag.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-review-of-william-logan.html
>> Wednesday, January 24, 2007
>> NEW! Review of William Logan
>>
>> The Undiscovered Country: Poetry in the Age of Tin by William Logan.
>> Columbia University Press, $29.50.
>>
>> Reviewed by Brian Henry
>>
>> William Logan is a tragic figure. Born at the wrong time--in the  
>> so-called
>> tin age of poetry--and doomed to write about it, he earns his  
>> living by
>> teaching in an MFA program, thus contributing to the very machine  
>> whose
>> products he loathes. His talents and tastes would seem better- 
>> suited to a
>> PhD program, but cultural studies and literary theory have taken  
>> over,
>> shunning the likes of Logan (or so he would argue). Stuck with the  
>> poetry of
>> this time, Logan rages against it.
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning
> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Jan 28 15:52:32 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:52:32 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY>
	<003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com>
	<008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com>

why? That is a very romantic - and indeed, optimistic one might say
American view - view point. Why do you assume that language can
describe everything? After heisenberg, one can say, "may" describe
everything: if something is unknowable, totally, how can you be
certain that you can describe the unknown?

As Douglas Adams says, the human mind cannot encompass the infinity
vastness of the universe. If you cannot encompass it, how can you
describe it?

Roger

On 1/28/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> > On 1/28/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Taken from:
> >> http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/litoral/litoral4.html
> >>
> >>  Indeed, people often say 'there are no words to describe how I feel'. As
> >> Edward Ballard puts it:
> >
> >> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at a
> >> loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can cover
> >> everything.
> >>
> >> --Bob G.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-Poetry mailing list
> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> > Which language is that then? The english language - and it's child
> > variants - can't adequately cover every *sound* their users make. For
> > example, we really should have a separate symbol for th. Why do you
> > think, that aaaarh, eyew, "the language" can cover "everything".
> > Japanese, just to pull an example out of the air, has more words for
> > more fetishes than I can even think of or stomach. And emotions which
> > I've not even thought of.
> >
> > Text doesn't cover *everything* Unless you're a closet post-modernist,
> > that is.
> >
> > Roger
>
> Every thing in existence, and all relationships between things, can be named
> by language.  Therefore, language can cover everything.  (Sufficiently, I
> should probably add.)
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."


From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 28 15:54:32 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:54:32 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms
Message-ID: <ceb.83a2173.32ee6788@aol.com>

With this  post, my laconic blog 
_http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/) 
had its first  birthday today...
 
The safest  general characterization of the European philosophical tradition 
is that it  consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.
--Alfred  North Whitehead, Process and Reality, 1929
 
The safest  general characterization of the European poetical tradition is 
that it consists  of a series of footnotes to Homer. 
 
--
131  brief posts...
Finnegan


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 28 16:02:15 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:02:15 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Joel Weishaus
Message-ID: <013c01c7431f$9735c880$e28d3052@ANNY>

Eight pictures and texts, no more no less:

http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/temp/Intro.htm

-Joel



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan 28 16:03:57 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:03:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorous
References: <BAY133-DAV2CFC91EDF6C475FD5A325D9A00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003d01c7431f$d38a6ca0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Re: [New-Poetry] HumorousThanks, Elaine.

You can see a little more here:  http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/situations.html


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Elaine Brown 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Humorous


  I love it!  I'm impressed by your description of the project you put yourself to.  The resulting episode you're posted here was a fun (and well-written) read.  People rely on sex as humor so often, it's nice to read a poem that tilts that off center and goes at it from a different direction.


  On 1/27/07 6:39 PM, "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org> wrote:


    OK, I'll toss one into the ring. I'll give a little history on it. This is from my novel in verse, "Situations." I originally wrote "Situations" as what I called an epic newsletter -- a mock epic, in newsletter format, sent out to about 100 subscribers. I wrote it from week to week, taking each weekly inspiration from that week's one-sentence synopses of four TV sitcoms in the Daily News. Which meant that from week to week, I didn't know where my plot was going, or which of my characters would move to center stage.
    When I was on episode 14, and thinking that I would wrap the whole thing up in just a few more episodes, I arrived at a plot twist which involved an orgy. 
     
    After I'd finished writing it, I decided it had been too easy, and too much fun to write, so I needed to give myself more of a challenge. So I wrote in a pledge -- no more sex scenes:
     
     
    We've reached our story's pornographic climax.
    >From here on for our heroes, sex is fini.
    They're on to quantum, quarks and metaphysics;
    The Major's limp as overcooked linguini,

    I sent this on to my subscribers, and was therefore committed to it, but I figured that would be easy enough, since I was only going to do a few more. Then I mentioned the project to a friend, more of a classicist than myself, who said, Oh, no, if it's an epic, it has to have 24 chapters. So...who was I to argue? But that meant I had to avoid sex for 10 more episodes. 
     
    How hard could it be? I'd just switch to violence -- it was time to kill off a few characters, anyway. 
     
    But then I got a letter from a woman named Fiona Giles, telling me that Michael Hathaway at Chiron Review had recommended me for a project she was doing. She had edited a successful anthology called Dick for a Day: What Would You Do If You Had One?, and was following it up with a companion anthology of writing by men, to be called Jane for a Day -- ultimately it came out as Chick for a Day. Did I have anything for it?
     
    Well, I didn't, but what if The Major, the main character of Situations, were to have a temporary sex change operation? it could work...but I had already promised "no sex" to my readers. So I had to finesse around that -- a sex change operation, but no actual sex.
     
    So...here's how it came out. The first line, in italics, actually went as left-hand-margin gloss, in the style of Rime of the Ancient Mariner, and was one of my TV sitcom synopses.
     
     
     
     
    Episode XVII

    The Major wants to adopt the girls.


    The Major in retirement: he plays
    Checkers on the Internet; he melts
    Bullets to make lead soldiers (Green Berets);
    He mostly wishes he were someone else.
     
    He joins blue-veined Elizabeth at rest;
    As if he'd never seen them, he explores
    Her female parts, and says, "I'd wish for just
    One day to try out those girl things of yours."
     
    "Dear Major," says Elizabeth, "You might
    Be just a bit more circumspect with wishes.
    No reason why it shouldn't be all right,
    But you could still be under one of Trisha's

    Long shelf-life spells." He chuckles, "I don't think so." 
    He gets up, dons his military costume,
    Heads for the door. "Sweetheart, before you go," 
    She says, "you'd better use the little boy's room." 
     
    He notes, with absent-minded irritation,
    The seat's left up (not heretofore an issue).
    He lowers it, prepares for urination
    By sitting down and reaching for a tissue.

    This can't be right! He rises to attention,
    Does an about face to address the bowl.
    He reaches for his natural extension,
    Comes up a good five inches less than whole.
     
    So.is The Major shocked by this? Well, sort of.
    His masculinity is so ingrained,
    He has to let it sink in what he's short of
    Before he stops to check out what he's gained.
     
    Elizabeth was right-he's been possessed.
    He starts to call her, then opts for discretion.
    This may be better kept close to the chest.
    Speaking of which.he checks. Yep, more possession.
     
    He tells her that he's not to be disturbed;
    He's working on his keynote for the Legion.
    His curiosity now won't be curbed,
    He heads directly for his nether region.
     
    He sits and stares, and wonders what to do with it.
    He runs through all his fantasies of lust,
    But now he's not so sure he could go through with it-
    He doubts he'd find a man that he could trust.
     
    He thinks he'd better take it for a test drive.
    He gives himself encomia: who comes
    With more technique than he has for a nest dive?
    To his dismay, he finds himself all thumbs.
     
    No matter how he presses, pokes, cajoles,
    He gets no more response than from a teapot.
    He keeps on getting lost among the folds;
    Where is his clitoris? Does he have a G-spot?
     
    Too bad he can't do what he does with engines;
    He'd brace it upright on his workbench, fix
    It in a vise, go at it with a vengeance,
    Dismantle it to find out how it ticks.
     
    There's got to be an Army training manual.
    He grabs the phone and dials the PX.
    He requisitions the updated annual
    GI edition Girl's First Guide To Sex, 

    Delivered after twenty minutes waiting
    By a demure corporal. He starts
    At Section Ten Point Seven: Masturbating,
    Complete with checklist, diagrams and charts.
     
    Maybe this thing's got more complexity
    Than what you would have thought-to get a handle
    He'll need to study-this calls for chablis,
    A bubble bath, Patchouli, and a candle.
     
    Cigar among the bubbles, hand in air
    Poking his laptop, number-crunching, poring
    Through techno-intricacies, unaware
    The other hand is in his lap, exploring.
     
    Subject: apparent female organs. Status:
    On standby. Tentative conclusion: freak
    Malfunction due to faulty apparatus.
    The Major knows it can't be his technique-
     
    All the chicks tell him he's the best. Blue-veined 
    Elizabeth has hailed him as the master
    (Hasn't she?) Etienne's never complained,
    though, come to think of it, he's never asked her.
     
    Musing, he's caught off guard by a sensation
    That spills his Merlot, sends his laptop crashing.
    His unfamiliar part's a conflagration,
    He's howling, sobbing, moaning, flailing, thrashing.
     
    "Dearest," Elizabeth calls out, "are you
    All right?" just as he's on his final spasm.
    "Yes, my sweet one," he croaks. "I stubbed my toe
    Against the sink." Now, that was an orgasm.    

    Those women have it made, with guys like me
    To do 'em. Then a troubling, if belated
    Further reflection: Wha'd I do, exactly?
    Don't even know if I could recreate it.
     
    Male ego fast succumbing to fragility,
    Acute self-doubt arising to befuddle him,
    He questions the existence of virility,
    And wishes he had someone there to cuddle him.
     
    Time's running out, and still he hasn't tried it, 
    And still he's of two minds-it seems to work;
    Shouldn't he try once with a man inside it?
    He doesn't want to waste it on some jerk,
     
    Precious as gold, or frankincense, or jasmine,
    Not to be given up without a fight;
    And yet.he wants the world to know he has one.
    He grabs a raincoat, drives into the night.
     
    He parks his car outside the VFW,
    He stops a group of sailors as they climb
    The front steps: "Fellas, I don't mean to trouble you,
    But check this out!" He hears the church bells chime
     
    The stroke of midnight. Now, rather than tangled
    Exotic bush, to his dismay, he sees
    The same thing they do: what has always dangled
    In its familiar spot, fanned by the breeze.
     
                  *                         *                      *

    As per their ritual, Elizabeth 
    Waits for her Major to begin his foreplay
    With some great tale of how he cheated death
    With Monty, or the ski patrols of Norway.
     
    She waits demurely in her flannel nightie.
    "Surely there's some brave deed you haven't told me
    To get you hard, my darling?" "Not tonight," he 
    Grunts. Then, in softer tones, "Just hold me." 

     


      ----- Original Message ----- 
       
      From:  SLIDINGSCA at aol.com 
       
      To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
       
      Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:10  PM
       
      Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Humorous
       


       
      In a message dated 1/27/2007 4:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, amyhappens at yahoo.com writes:
       


        Who actually wrote this withered vagina  poem?


       
      Amy,
       
       
       
      This very politically correct poem is mine. If there is anyone that the  poem does not offend, I have not earned the right to my pub in Poetry.
       
      -Larissa
       
       
       
      Larissa  Shmailo slidingsca at aol.com <mailto:slidingsca at aol.com> 
      http://www.myspace.com/larissaworld
      http//:www.cdbaby.com/cd/shmailo
      http//:larissashmailo.blogspot.com
      http://www.bigbridge.org/deathlshmailo.htm


       

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 28 16:09:40 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 22:09:40 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms
References: <ceb.83a2173.32ee6788@aol.com>
Message-ID: <014d01c74320$a0354a90$e28d3052@ANNY>


Happiest Birthday to Ursprache for Finnegan's poetic entries, 
for the special occasion I am copying here the following:

Prose poem: The language of poetry in its street clothes.



  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:54 PM


  With this post, my laconic blog 
  http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com
  had its first birthday today...

  The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.
  --Alfred North Whitehead, Process and Reality, 1929

  The safest general characterization of the European poetical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Homer. 

  --
  131 brief posts...
  Finnegan


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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Jan 28 16:11:39 2007
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:11:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms
References: <ceb.83a2173.32ee6788@aol.com>
	<014d01c74320$a0354a90$e28d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <009601c74320$e763a470$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Indeed. I wish you'd trumpeted this a little more -- I didn't know about it till now.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views 
  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms



  Happiest Birthday to Ursprache for Finnegan's poetic entries, 
  for the special occasion I am copying here the following:

  Prose poem: The language of poetry in its street clothes.



    From: JforJames at aol.com 
    Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:54 PM


    With this post, my laconic blog 
    http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com
    had its first birthday today...

    The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato.
    --Alfred North Whitehead, Process and Reality, 1929

    The safest general characterization of the European poetical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Homer. 

    --
    131 brief posts...
    Finnegan





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  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From LauraHeidy at aol.com  Sun Jan 28 16:36:18 2007
From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:36:18 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms
Message-ID: <c8f.7fc7f04.32ee7152@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 1/28/2007 3:55:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
JforJames at aol.com writes:

With this  post, my laconic blog 
_http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/) 
had its  first birthday today...



Happy Freekin' Birthday!!!
 
Neat blog, by-the-way. 
 
Lo
lauraheidy.blogspot.com
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 17:59:37 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:59:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> why? That is a very romantic - and indeed, optimistic one might say
> American view - view point. Why do you assume that language can
> describe everything? After heisenberg, one can say, "may" describe
> everything: if something is unknowable, totally, how can you be
> certain that you can describe the unknown?
>
> As Douglas Adams says, the human mind cannot encompass the infinity
> vastness of the universe. If you cannot encompass it, how can you
> describe it?
>
> Roger

I don't see why you can't encompass it.  But even if you can't you can say 
it's unencompassable.  I'm just a strict materialist.  If the universe 
consists of nothing but matter or matter/energy, then you should be able to 
tag each unit of it.  And I would say (circularly) that if you can't 
describe it, it doesn't exist, which would take care of the unknown.  Also, 
I would say describing something to be within a range is sufficiently 
describing it.

--Bob





From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Jan 28 18:04:54 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:04:54 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com>
	<00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY>

maybe this can help? Good old Kant:

noumenon:

The word came into its modern usage through Immanuel Kant. The etymology of the word derives from the Greek noo?menon (thought-of) and ultimately reflects nous (mind). Noumena is the plural form. Noumenon ("Ding an sich") is distinguished from phenomenon ("Erscheinung"), an observable event or physical manifestation, and the two words serve as interrelated technical terms in Kant's philosophy. Explaining the relationship between the noumenal and the phenomenal forms is one of the most difficult problems for Kant's philosophy. On Kant's view, as expressed in his Critique of Pure Reason, reality is structured by "concepts of the understanding", or innate categories that the mind engages in order to make sense of raw unstructured experience. Since these categories include causality and number, it is problematic to say that many noumena exist or that they individually cause us to have perceptions of phenomena. But if the noumenal does not cause the phenomenal, then what is the relationship? The suggested answer is that the noumenal and phenomenal coexist simultaneously; we cannot say that either causes the other.

from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noumenon

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>


> 
> 
>> why? That is a very romantic - and indeed, optimistic one might say
>> American view - view point. Why do you assume that language can
>> describe everything? After heisenberg, one can say, "may" describe
>> everything: if something is unknowable, totally, how can you be
>> certain that you can describe the unknown?
>>
>> As Douglas Adams says, the human mind cannot encompass the infinity
>> vastness of the universe. If you cannot encompass it, how can you
>> describe it?
>>
>> Roger
> 
> I don't see why you can't encompass it.  But even if you can't you can say 
> it's unencompassable.  I'm just a strict materialist.  If the universe 
> consists of nothing but matter or matter/energy, then you should be able to 
> tag each unit of it.  And I would say (circularly) that if you can't 
> describe it, it doesn't exist, which would take care of the unknown.  Also, 
> I would say describing something to be within a range is sufficiently 
> describing it.
> 
> --Bob
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From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Jan 28 18:58:31 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:58:31 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY>
	<003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net>


> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at 
> a loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can 
> cover everything.

except the things that can't be expressed in language because there are no criteria for sensibility. There are some things that are impossible to say 
because any attempt to say it will only be nonsense.


From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 19:40:14 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:40:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 48
In-Reply-To: <200701282230.l0SMUPt6017332@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Roger Day wrote: 
"we really should have a separate symbol for th"

Actually, Roger, we did...once upon a time, pre
c1500/printing press. It was called a "thorn"
(appropriately), and looked sort of like a "b" and a
"p" having hot sex.
There was also a "yogh" (gh), which looked like a "3"
that thinks it's a "z".
Thar's sumthin for all you vispo kids :D
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 28 20:12:27 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:12:27 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?_Don=E2=80=99t_Feed_the_Poets_?=
Message-ID: <c2f.df6dbca.32eea3fb@aol.com>

_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/books/review/Harrison2.t.html?_r=1&ref=revi
ew&oref=slogin_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/books/review/Harrison2.t.html?_r=1&ref=review&oref=slogin) 
Don?t  Feed the Poets 
By JIM HARRISON
Published: January 28, 2007

I recently wandered through my home library in Montana and  rediscovered Karl 
Shapiro?s ?Bourgeois Poet? (1964), a book of prose poems I  first read 
during the vile winter of 1966. My wife and I had moved back to  northern Michigan, 
after I?d left behind a good job in Boston on the promise of  my first book 
of poems, ?Plain Song,? having been accepted by Norton. I don?t  recall what 
shape I expected the promise to arrive in: I ended up trimming  Christmas trees 
and working construction for two and a half bucks an hour. Our  rented house 
was only $35 a month, but it was drafty, the furnace was faulty and  
frequently the place couldn?t be brought up to 55 degrees. All of these numbers  can 
actually describe a life.

Reading Shapiro?s prose poems under such conditions was wonderful in that I  
was decidedly not bourgeois. 

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 20:17:16 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:17:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



>
>> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at a 
>> loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can cover 
>> everything.
>
> except the things that can't be expressed in language because there are no 
> criteria for sensibility. There are some things that are impossible to say 
> because any attempt to say it will only be nonsense.

All I can say in response is that I personally don't know of anything that's 
"impossible to say because any attempt to say it will be nonsense."

--Bob 




From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Jan 28 20:16:53 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:16:53 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>	<45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net>
	<012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <45BD4B05.4020103@myuw.net>

and i'd love to tell you what those things are, but they can't be said.

Bob Grumman wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself 
>>> at a loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language 
>>> can cover everything.
>>
>>
>> except the things that can't be expressed in language because there 
>> are no criteria for sensibility. There are some things that are 
>> impossible to say because any attempt to say it will only be nonsense.
> 
> 
> All I can say in response is that I personally don't know of anything 
> that's "impossible to say because any attempt to say it will be nonsense."
> 
> --Bob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 20:19:59 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:19:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com><00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <013d01c74343$9a0bc180$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>

maybe this can help? Good old Kant:

noumenon:

The word came into its modern usage through Immanuel Kant. The etymology of the word derives from the Greek noo?menon (thought-of) and ultimately reflects nous (mind). Noumena is the plural form. Noumenon ("Ding an sich") is distinguished from phenomenon ("Erscheinung"), an observable event or physical manifestation, and the two words serve as interrelated technical terms in Kant's philosophy. Explaining the relationship between the noumenal and the phenomenal forms is one of the most difficult problems for Kant's philosophy. On Kant's view, as expressed in his Critique of Pure Reason, reality is structured by "concepts of the understanding", or innate categories that the mind engages in order to make sense of raw unstructured experience. Since these categories include causality and number, it is problematic to say that many noumena exist or that they individually cause us to have perceptions of phenomena. But if the noumenal does not cause the phenomenal, then what is the relationship? The suggested answer is that the noumenal and phenomenal coexist simultaneously; we cannot say that either causes the other.

Interesting, Anny, but no help to me.  The thing as itself includes our perception of it, for me.  And it can be named.

--Bob
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From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Jan 28 20:22:17 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:22:17 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>	<45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net>
	<012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <45BD4C49.7080601@myuw.net>

more seriously, i think that there are categories of things that can't be said, but which can be represented by the sorts of nonsense people speak in 
trying to express them. I think that religious statements are generally of that sort, as are statements about metaphysical topics such as free will, 
determinism, consciousness, and less seriously, a lot of things that are said about aesthetic and ethical value. I think that, for example, Plato was 
trying to say something when he came up with the "form of the good" which is not expressible, but that he nevertheless wants to express, and I 
understand that impulse.

Bob Grumman wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>>> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself 
>>> at a loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language 
>>> can cover everything.
>>
>>
>> except the things that can't be expressed in language because there 
>> are no criteria for sensibility. There are some things that are 
>> impossible to say because any attempt to say it will only be nonsense.
> 
> 
> All I can say in response is that I personally don't know of anything 
> that's "impossible to say because any attempt to say it will be nonsense."
> 
> --Bob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 28 20:32:24 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:32:24 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry) Phallogocentrism
In-Reply-To: <019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com>
	<00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <728653E2-5C72-4B90-A48E-CCE05BB2642B@earthlink.net>


don't know if this will help or hurt or do nothing, but one of my  
favorite 'silly' academic words (especially silly, because it's  
sometimes accompanies by these sober-faced high toned earnest voices)  
is Phallogocentric......i think derrida coined it...
            anyway....in the beginning was that word (and they're  
trying not to make it flesh....)

C
On Jan 28, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> maybe this can help? Good old Kant:
>
> noumenon:
>
> The word came into its modern usage through Immanuel Kant. The  
> etymology of the word derives from the Greek noo?menon (thought-of)  
> and ultimately reflects nous (mind). Noumena is the plural form.  
> Noumenon ("Ding an sich") is distinguished from phenomenon  
> ("Erscheinung"), an observable event or physical manifestation, and  
> the two words serve as interrelated technical terms in Kant's  
> philosophy. Explaining the relationship between the noumenal and  
> the phenomenal forms is one of the most difficult problems for  
> Kant's philosophy. On Kant's view, as expressed in his Critique of  
> Pure Reason, reality is structured by "concepts of the  
> understanding", or innate categories that the mind engages in order  
> to make sense of raw unstructured experience. Since these  
> categories include causality and number, it is problematic to say  
> that many noumena exist or that they individually cause us to have  
> perceptions of phenomena. But if the noumenal does not cause the  
> phenomenal, then what is the relationship? The suggested answer is  
> that the noumenal and phenomenal coexist simultaneously; we cannot  
> say that either causes the other.
>
> from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noumenon
>
> From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
> poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>
> >
> >
> >> why? That is a very romantic - and indeed, optimistic one might say
> >> American view - view point. Why do you assume that language can
> >> describe everything? After heisenberg, one can say, "may" describe
> >> everything: if something is unknowable, totally, how can you be
> >> certain that you can describe the unknown?
> >>
> >> As Douglas Adams says, the human mind cannot encompass the infinity
> >> vastness of the universe. If you cannot encompass it, how can you
> >> describe it?
> >>
> >> Roger
> >
> > I don't see why you can't encompass it.  But even if you can't  
> you can say
> > it's unencompassable.  I'm just a strict materialist.  If the  
> universe
> > consists of nothing but matter or matter/energy, then you should  
> be able to
> > tag each unit of it.  And I would say (circularly) that if you can't
> > describe it, it doesn't exist, which would take care of the  
> unknown.  Also,
> > I would say describing something to be within a range is  
> sufficiently
> > describing it.
> >
> > --Bob
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Jan 28 20:40:29 2007
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:40:29 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
Message-ID: <bd7.f5107aa.32eeaa8d@aol.com>

Bob, I find it interesting that you argue that the language,
English,  is an adequate intrument for any and all needs of  expression, 
and yet aren't you rather prone to neologisms in your critical  schema?
Why not find one or more of those adequate words rather
than make a new one?
 
One could say that poetry is only necessary because
of the rift between what we want to say and what we can...
Finnegan
T.S. Eliot ("East Coker", The Four Quartets)
 
Trying to use words, and every attempt
Is a wholly new start, and a  different kind of failure
Because one has only learnt to get the better of  words
For the thing one no longer has to say, or the way in which
One is  no longer disposed to say it. And so each venture
Is a new beginning, a raid  on the inarticulate
With shabby equipment always deteriorating
In the  general mess of imprecision of feeling,
Undisciplined squads of emotion. And  what there is to conquer
By strength and submission, has already been  discovered
Once or twice, or several times, by men whom one cannot hope
To  emulate?but there is no competition?
There is only the fight to recover what  has been lost
And found and lost again and again: and now, under  conditions
That seem unpropitious. But perhaps neither gain nor loss.
For  us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.
 
 
 
 
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Jan 28 21:06:22 2007
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:06:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>	<45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net><012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<45BD4C49.7080601@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <014d01c7434a$14763300$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> more seriously, i think that there are categories of things that can't be 
> said, but which can be represented by the sorts of nonsense people speak 
> in trying to express them. I think that religious statements are generally 
> of that sort, as are statements about metaphysical topics such as free 
> will, determinism, consciousness, and less seriously, a lot of things that 
> are said about aesthetic and ethical value. I think that, for example, 
> Plato was trying to say something when he came up with the "form of the 
> good" which is not expressible, but that he nevertheless wants to express, 
> and I understand that impulse.
>
Well, I tend to believe that the words used do name what is meant--or name 
nothing.  Plato's "form of the good" may have existed for him but it doesn't 
for me, and won't until someone gets the words for it right.  If it actually 
exists, someone will.  It may, as what my theory of psychology considers an 
"urcept," which is a kind of inborn perception--or stimulusless perception. 
Which I do have words for, and diagrams!  But they're beyond the scope of 
this post.

--Bob 




From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Jan 28 21:07:37 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:07:37 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <014d01c7434a$14763300$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>	<45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net><012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>	<45BD4C49.7080601@myuw.net>
	<014d01c7434a$14763300$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <45BD56E9.4050303@myuw.net>

i believe that language has to be publicly available, that is,  in order for language to be meaningful there has to be a publicly available criteria 
for me to be able to know that I am using a word correctly. Without that, then a word can't be meaningful. I don't deny that there can be private 
experiences or perceptions, however, i don't see any way for there to be meaningful language about those things.

Bob Grumman wrote:
> 
> 
>> more seriously, i think that there are categories of things that can't 
>> be said, but which can be represented by the sorts of nonsense people 
>> speak in trying to express them. I think that religious statements are 
>> generally of that sort, as are statements about metaphysical topics 
>> such as free will, determinism, consciousness, and less seriously, a 
>> lot of things that are said about aesthetic and ethical value. I think 
>> that, for example, Plato was trying to say something when he came up 
>> with the "form of the good" which is not expressible, but that he 
>> nevertheless wants to express, and I understand that impulse.
>>
> Well, I tend to believe that the words used do name what is meant--or 
> name nothing.  Plato's "form of the good" may have existed for him but 
> it doesn't for me, and won't until someone gets the words for it right.  
> If it actually exists, someone will.  It may, as what my theory of 
> psychology considers an "urcept," which is a kind of inborn 
> perception--or stimulusless perception. Which I do have words for, and 
> diagrams!  But they're beyond the scope of this post.
> 
> --Bob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


From jfq at myuw.net  Sun Jan 28 21:09:32 2007
From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:09:32 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 48
In-Reply-To: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>

Actually, along with thorn there were a few others that were adopted from anglo-saxon to cover sounds in English that didn't exist in Latin.

interestingly, it's a thorn in the commonly used "Ye Olde [whatever]" construction that's so commonly used to make things sound medieval, as the 
orhtography evolved over time thorn became indistinguishable for a y.

There are a couple of other characters too, some of which are still in use in icelandic and danish,

such as eth, which looks like a d with the ascender falling over and a cross through it, which is the voice fricative like in them and that, whereas 
thorn was used for the unvoiced like the "th" in think or health.

and wynn which looked like a slanty p, but which used to be used before the invention of w.

Alexander Dickow wrote:
> Roger Day wrote: 
> "we really should have a separate symbol for th"
> 
> Actually, Roger, we did...once upon a time, pre
> c1500/printing press. It was called a "thorn"
> (appropriately), and looked sort of like a "b" and a
> "p" having hot sex.
> There was also a "yogh" (gh), which looked like a "3"
> that thinks it's a "z".
> Thar's sumthin for all you vispo kids :D
> Amicalement,
> Alex
> 
> www.alexdickow.net/blog/
>    
>   les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
>   merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 29 00:03:56 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:03:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry) Phallogocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com><00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY>
	<728653E2-5C72-4B90-A48E-CCE05BB2642B@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <003601c74362$e1795630$332bb750@ANNY>

You are right, coined by Derrida, or logocentrism, the tendency to place everything in the logos (= word, reason or spirit).
  From: Chris Stroffolino 
  Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:32 AM




  don't know if this will help or hurt or do nothing, but one of my favorite 'silly' academic words (especially silly, because it's sometimes accompanies by these sober-faced high toned earnest voices) is Phallogocentric......i think derrida coined it...
             anyway....in the beginning was that word (and they're trying not to make it flesh....)


  C
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 29 00:04:59 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:04:59 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <bd7.f5107aa.32eeaa8d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004501c74363$06d45330$332bb750@ANNY>

I had the same (up till now unsaid) reaction, how interesting and complicated are human beings.
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:40 AM


  Bob, I find it interesting that you argue that the language,
  English,  is an adequate intrument for any and all needs of expression, 
  and yet aren't you rather prone to neologisms in your critical schema?
  Why not find one or more of those adequate words rather
  than make a new one?

  One could say that poetry is only necessary because
  of the rift between what we want to say and what we can...
  Finnegan
  T.S. Eliot ("East Coker", The Four Quartets)

  Trying to use words, and every attempt
  Is a wholly new start, and a different kind of failure
  Because one has only learnt to get the better of words
  For the thing one no longer has to say, or the way in which
  One is no longer disposed to say it. And so each venture
  Is a new beginning, a raid on the inarticulate
  With shabby equipment always deteriorating
  In the general mess of imprecision of feeling,
  Undisciplined squads of emotion. And what there is to conquer
  By strength and submission, has already been discovered
  Once or twice, or several times, by men whom one cannot hope
  To emulate?but there is no competition?
  There is only the fight to recover what has been lost
  And found and lost again and again: and now, under conditions
  That seem unpropitious. But perhaps neither gain nor loss.
  For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business.

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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Mon Jan 29 00:06:16 2007
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:06:16 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry) Phallogocentrism
Message-ID: <d2a.611272c.32eedac8@cs.com>

In a message dated 1/28/2007 11:04:41 PM Central Standard Time, 
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: 
>  anyway....in the beginning was that word (and they're trying not to make 
> it flesh....)
>  
> 
Would that they could.
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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 29 00:28:53 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:28:53 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry) Phallogocentrism
In-Reply-To: <003601c74362$e1795630$332bb750@ANNY>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com><00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY>
	<728653E2-5C72-4B90-A48E-CCE05BB2642B@earthlink.net>
	<003601c74362$e1795630$332bb750@ANNY>
Message-ID: <EE89ECBA-5CC1-4F01-BF4B-250877BC4ACF@earthlink.net>


I'm probably a little rusty on this staple of academic 'theory- 
speak,' but my sense was that 'phallocentrism" had a more specific sense
relating to 'speech-based' as opposed to 'written text based'---
and that it was used (deployed) pejoratively by derrida in his  
charmingly smart-ass attempt to criticize (or put into question, as  
they say)
the essentialism of writers who claim that speech is prior to the  
written word....
something like that....
                        so it's also about where one locates the  
logos (in the mouth? or in the pen? or both, or neither?)...
Chris

On Jan 28, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> You are right, coined by Derrida, or logocentrism, the tendency to  
> place everything in the logos (= word, reason or spirit).
> From: Chris Stroffolino
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:32 AM
>
>
> don't know if this will help or hurt or do nothing, but one of my  
> favorite 'silly' academic words (especially silly, because it's  
> sometimes accompanies by these sober-faced high toned earnest  
> voices) is Phallogocentric......i think derrida coined it...
>            anyway....in the beginning was that word (and they're  
> trying not to make it flesh....)
>
> C
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 29 00:43:01 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:43:01 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry) Phallogocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com><00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY><728653E2-5C72-4B90-A48E-CCE05BB2642B@earthlink.net><003601c74362$e1795630$332bb750@ANNY>
	<EE89ECBA-5CC1-4F01-BF4B-250877BC4ACF@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <006c01c74368$570b5a10$332bb750@ANNY>

exactly against Saussure, and also Rousseau had his part.
  From: Chris Stroffolino 
  Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:28 AM




  I'm probably a little rusty on this staple of academic 'theory-speak,' but my sense was that 'phallocentrism" had a more specific sense
  relating to 'speech-based' as opposed to 'written text based'---
  and that it was used (deployed) pejoratively by derrida in his charmingly smart-ass attempt to criticize (or put into question, as they say)
  the essentialism of writers who claim that speech is prior to the written word....
  something like that....
                         so it's also about where one locates the logos (in the mouth? or in the pen? or both, or neither?)...
  Chris


  On Jan 28, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:


    You are right, coined by Derrida, or logocentrism, the tendency to place everything in the logos (= word, reason or spirit).
      From: Chris Stroffolino 
      Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:32 AM




      don't know if this will help or hurt or do nothing, but one of my favorite 'silly' academic words (especially silly, because it's sometimes accompanies by these sober-faced high toned earnest voices) is Phallogocentric......i think derrida coined it... 
                 anyway....in the beginning was that word (and they're trying not to make it flesh....)


      C
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From suelin7184 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 07:08:02 2007
From: suelin7184 at gmail.com (Linda Sue Grimes)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:08:02 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net>
	<012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <002e01c7439e$20614d90$0201a8c0@LindaSue>

>There are some things that are impossible to say because any attempt to say 
>it will only be nonsense.


Isn't that one of the tenet of the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E theory??

Jai Guru!
--LindaSuePoems
________________________________
Blessings,
Linda Sue Grimes
Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism


>
>
>>
>>> Gotta get my day going right with a disagreement: when I find myself at 
>>> a loss for words, I blame myself, not the language.  The language can 
>>> cover everything.
>>
>> except the things that can't be expressed in language because there are 
>> no criteria for sensibility. There are some things that are impossible to 
>> say because any attempt to say it will only be nonsense.
>
> All I can say in response is that I personally don't know of anything 
> that's "impossible to say because any attempt to say it will be nonsense."
>
> --Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry 



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 29 07:28:20 2007
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:28:20 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 48
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>
Message-ID: <005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>

From: "Jason Quackenbush" <jfq at myuw.net>

> There are a couple of other characters too, some of which are still in use
> in icelandic and danish,
>
> such as eth, which looks like a d with the ascender falling over and a
> cross through it, which is the voice fricative like in them and that,
> whereas thorn was used for the unvoiced like the "th" in think or health.

This may be the case in modern Icelandic (or so Wikipedia says), but was
never the case in Old or later English:

"In Old English, ? was used interchangeably with ? (thorn) to represent
either voiced or voiceless dental fricatives. The letter ? was used
throughout the Anglo-Saxon era, but gradually fell out of use in Middle
English, disappearing altogether by about 1300; ? survived longer,
ultimately being replaced by the modern digraph th by about 1500."
(Wikipedia)

In Old English orthography, the difference was positional, the thorn being
invariably written at the beginning of a word and the slashed-d (eth) form
in the middle.  The distinction between the voiced and unvoiced <th> sound
(as eg. "thigh"/"thy"), while always there, has never been orthographically
signalled in English, mostly because native language speakers aren't
consciously aware of the difference, although they voice it.  So to speak.

Curiously, some of this played-out slightly differently when printing
reached Scotland.  There, the original yogh (which in Old English,
confusingly could represent either of the sounds which are now printed as
"y" and "g") was retained, but represented by the letter "z", leading to the
current situation where the leader of the Liberal Democratic party here,
Menzies Campbell, has his given-name pronounced <mingus>, as in the jazz
player.

Robin




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 29 09:34:07 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:34:07 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <003801c743b2$88a1e720$332bb750@ANNY>

Poem: "The Virtue of Trusting One's Mind" by Marcia Slatkin, from A Woman Milking: Barnyard Poems. ? Word Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) 

The Virtue of Trusting One's Mind

When goats don't want to move,
they don't make sounds.

They fold legs at bald knees,
bend rough necks to earth,
and just sink down.

They never

rant, rail,
protest, declaim,
debate, explain, and then,
head bowed, plod meekly
forward anyway,

as I did
as a child-
and still do now.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu  Mon Jan 29 09:37:03 2007
From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:37:03 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
In-Reply-To: <005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>
	<005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>
Message-ID: <45BE068F.1010504@medicine.nodak.edu>



Robin Hamilton wrote:
> Curiously, some of this played-out slightly differently when printing
> reached Scotland.  There, the original yogh (which in Old English,
> confusingly could represent either of the sounds which are now printed as
> "y" and "g") was retained, but represented by the letter "z", leading 
> to the
> current situation where the leader of the Liberal Democratic party here,
> Menzies Campbell, has his given-name pronounced <mingus>, as in the jazz
> player.
>
    As I recall, a similar pronunciation was used by Sir Steward Menzies,
head of MI 6 for Churchill and a model for "M" in the James Bond novels.

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu


From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Jan 29 09:38:02 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:38:02 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Chekhov
Message-ID: <A67D96DF-9934-4FCD-A620-2223D09E6026@ripon.edu>

Also from Writer's Almanac, in a way, since that's how I learned that  
today is Anton Chekhov's birthday. . . .



Another Boring Story

Chekhov has "A Boring Story"
about a professor. The old man's wife and children
don't understand him and don't care.

His wife's only concern is
to marry off their daughter
to this blockhead, a nonentity.
So the old man goes on a journey
to investigate, find out what he can
about their future son-in-law ...
and finds himself in a hotel room
in a strange town, wondering
how on earth life brought him there.

He has a friend, a young woman.
They're not lovers . . .  loving friends.
She had an affair that turned sour
and now she's at loose ends.
She asks him what to do, what to live for,
and he has nothing to say to her,
not a word. That's the end of the story.

Here's another boring story about a professor.
Years ago he embarked on an affair
with a young woman. It became a scandal.
His wife threw him out,
then she took him back. The young woman
tried to kill herself, I'm told.

I see them fairly often.
He and I talk about literature
and what's wrong with the country
while his wife knits or does some ironing.

I find myself looking out the window
or at the walls. Some surrealist
recommends staring at a wall
till something unusual happens ...
an arm protruding from the wall.
He mixes drinks, she lays out cheese-dip.
Then the children come running in,
streaked with dirt from wherever they've been.
They make for the cheese-dip,
stick their fingers in and dabble.

I've seen them at the table.
They snatch the meat from the plate
with their hands.

She smiles at her little savages.
One thing's sure: she's not raising her children
to be members of any faculty.

-- Louis Simpson, from The Owner of the House: New Collected Poems  
1940-2001 (BOA Editions, Ltd.).





========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Jan 29 09:43:40 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:43:40 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
In-Reply-To: <45BE068F.1010504@medicine.nodak.edu>
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>
	<005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>
	<45BE068F.1010504@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <BEF0D1D3-CD6E-47AE-AA4B-F3D4006F742B@ripon.edu>


On Jan 29, 2007, at 8:37 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote:

>> current situation where the leader of the Liberal Democratic party  
>> here,
>> Menzies Campbell, has his given-name pronounced <mingus>, as in  
>> the jazz
>> player.
>>
>    As I recall, a similar pronunciation was used by Sir Steward  
> Menzies,
> head of MI 6 for Churchill and a model for "M" in the James Bond  
> novels.
>
> Richard W. Wilsnack


Whenever I'm in doubt, I just pronounce any English name "Chumley."

Since we seem to be among Those Who Know Such Things, I'll ask  
something I've wondered about.

When Thomas Hardy puts the exclamation "ay!" into his poems, how  
would he have pronounced that?  Long-I or long-A?

========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 29 10:11:47 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:11:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jen's and Jen's
Message-ID: <000801c743b7$cbe495a0$332bb750@ANNY>

Don't know if there is any Saint Louisian but the mail is worth a note, from Aaron Belz on the Buffalo:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good lord, it looks as though this is actually going to happen:

  Jen Hofer
  Jen Bervin
  Jen Chapis
  Jen Coleman
  Jen Mueller
  Jen MacKenzie
  Jen Robinson
  Jen Woods
  Jen Gaby
  Jen Scappettone
  and
  Jen Lyons

...Are all reading on the same night, February 1, at the Bottleworks in St.
Louis, MO. More info can be found at the series website,
http://observable.org/readings/  There's even a printable handbill for you
to post on your bulletin board-  the perfect conversation starter.

It is the most ambitions Observable Reading ever!  If you're anywhere within
striking range, I hope you'll be there.  It's free, as usual.


Aaron



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 10:12:24 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:12:24 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Logocentrism
In-Reply-To: <014d01c7434a$14763300$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY>
	<003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<45BD38A7.4080101@myuw.net>
	<012e01c74343$38e65f00$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<45BD4C49.7080601@myuw.net>
	<014d01c7434a$14763300$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <fde503480701290712w32d5ff0dw179754f897e22316@mail.gmail.com>

I've thought that some of the things that people say are un-sayable
are areas of power, places where guardians stand watching over them.
Words like good and evil. Evil isn't there to be understood, but to be
punished. For example, Bush's "Axis of Evil". His refusal to talk to
an Iranian will only end in disaster, as, at best, he disallows his
diplomats the neccessity of at least knowing your enemy; at worst,
well, I leave that as an exercise for the reader. The counter, more
liberal view, is that we should understand the causes of problems and
find solutions. Of course, knowing the "other" might mean you actually
get to like them. And we can't have that now, can we?

The mysticism wrapped around, say, the Firemen of New York erects a
shield around the event. The event becomes unsayable, you cannot ask
it or them the questions you would of ordinary events or mortals, you
can only worship. This attitude deflects a lot of (plain) questioning.

I think it's the case that the language science uses to express itself
can't cope with the quantum world, so change maybe a-foot.

I think also you might be looking for Qualia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia. Although the presence of qualia
is hotly disputed as the article says. It is conjectured, words alone
cannot describe the *whole* experience. There's always some slippage.
Maybe this is where poetry comes in?

Roger

On 1/29/07, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
>
> > more seriously, i think that there are categories of things that can't be
> > said, but which can be represented by the sorts of nonsense people speak
> > in trying to express them. I think that religious statements are generally
> > of that sort, as are statements about metaphysical topics such as free
> > will, determinism, consciousness, and less seriously, a lot of things that
> > are said about aesthetic and ethical value. I think that, for example,
> > Plato was trying to say something when he came up with the "form of the
> > good" which is not expressible, but that he nevertheless wants to express,
> > and I understand that impulse.
> >
> Well, I tend to believe that the words used do name what is meant--or name
> nothing.  Plato's "form of the good" may have existed for him but it doesn't
> for me, and won't until someone gets the words for it right.  If it actually
> exists, someone will.  It may, as what my theory of psychology considers an
> "urcept," which is a kind of inborn perception--or stimulusless perception.
> Which I do have words for, and diagrams!  But they're beyond the scope of
> this post.
>
> --Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."


From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Mon Jan 29 10:46:05 2007
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:46:05 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
Message-ID: <4603.1170085565@opus40.org>

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From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Mon Jan 29 10:50:52 2007
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:50:52 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
Message-ID: <4645.1170085852@opus40.org>

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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 10:51:13 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:51:13 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
In-Reply-To: <4603.1170085565@opus40.org>
References: <4603.1170085565@opus40.org>
Message-ID: <fde503480701290751x13e65625r9c4e3bf0c53006bc@mail.gmail.com>

ah-um, Coltrane, u dig?

On 1/29/07, opus40-01 at opus40.org <opus40-01 at opus40.org> wrote:
>
>  Wait a second...pronounced how? what jazz player? Is "Menzies" pronounced
> "Dizzy"?
>
>
>  On Mon Jan 29 9:37 , Richard Wilsnack sent:
>
>
>
>
>  Robin Hamilton wrote:
>  > Curiously, some of this played-out slightly differently when printing
>  > reached Scotland. There, the original yogh (which in Old English,
>  > confusingly could represent either of the sounds which are now printed as
>  > "y" and "g") was retained, but represented by the letter "z", leading
>  > to the
>  > current situation where the leader of the Liberal Democratic party here,
>  > Menzies Campbell, has his given-name pronounced , as in the jazz
>  > player.
>  >
>  As I recall, a similar pronunciation was used by Sir Steward Menzies,
>  head of MI 6 for Churchill and a model for "M" in the James Bond novels.
>
>  Richard W. Wilsnack
>  rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu
>  _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Jan 29 10:56:18 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:56:18 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Chekhov
References: <A67D96DF-9934-4FCD-A620-2223D09E6026@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <004501c743be$03bf3ba0$332bb750@ANNY>

sad sad nihilism_
  From: David Graham 
  Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 3:38 PM


  Also from Writer's Almanac, in a way, since that's how I learned that today is Anton Chekhov's birthday. . . .






  Another Boring Story

  Chekhov has "A Boring Story"
  about a professor. The old man's wife and children
  don't understand him and don't care. 

  His wife's only concern is
  to marry off their daughter
  to this blockhead, a nonentity. 
  So the old man goes on a journey
  to investigate, find out what he can
  about their future son-in-law ... 
  and finds himself in a hotel room
  in a strange town, wondering
  how on earth life brought him there. 

  He has a friend, a young woman. 
  They're not lovers . . .  loving friends. 
  She had an affair that turned sour
  and now she's at loose ends. 
  She asks him what to do, what to live for, 
  and he has nothing to say to her, 
  not a word. That's the end of the story. 

  Here's another boring story about a professor. 
  Years ago he embarked on an affair
  with a young woman. It became a scandal. 
  His wife threw him out, 
  then she took him back. The young woman
  tried to kill herself, I'm told. 

  I see them fairly often. 
  He and I talk about literature
  and what's wrong with the country
  while his wife knits or does some ironing. 

  I find myself looking out the window
  or at the walls. Some surrealist
  recommends staring at a wall
  till something unusual happens ...
  an arm protruding from the wall. 
  He mixes drinks, she lays out cheese-dip. 
  Then the children come running in, 
  streaked with dirt from wherever they've been. 
  They make for the cheese-dip, 
  stick their fingers in and dabble. 

  I've seen them at the table. 
  They snatch the meat from the plate
  with their hands. 

  She smiles at her little savages. 
  One thing's sure: she's not raising her children
  to be members of any faculty.

  -- Louis Simpson, from The Owner of the House: New Collected Poems 1940-2001 (BOA Editions, Ltd.).








  ========================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ==========================================
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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 29 11:28:55 2007
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:28:55 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry) Phallogocentrism
In-Reply-To: <006c01c74368$570b5a10$332bb750@ANNY>
References: <001d01c742d0$d28300a0$e28d3052@ANNY><003401c742dd$881176c0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281128q27dfa930p84cc4824a72c4369@mail.gmail.com><008c01c74315$4f62aeb0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><fde503480701281252xdb4a181lfff752733c2f864b@mail.gmail.com><00b201c7432f$fe0590d0$6bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><019c01c74330$b937c6c0$e28d3052@ANNY><728653E2-5C72-4B90-A48E-CCE05BB2642B@earthlink.net><003601c74362$e1795630$332bb750@ANNY>
	<EE89ECBA-5CC1-4F01-BF4B-250877BC4ACF@earthlink.net>
	<006c01c74368$570b5a10$332bb750@ANNY>
Message-ID: <E419CFB2-C4D1-4073-85ED-0FB006804C98@earthlink.net>

and lacan...

On Jan 28, 2007, at 9:43 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> exactly against Saussure, and also Rousseau had his part.
> From: Chris Stroffolino
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 6:28 AM
>
>
> I'm probably a little rusty on this staple of academic 'theory- 
> speak,' but my sense was that 'phallocentrism" had a more specific  
> sense
> relating to 'speech-based' as opposed to 'written text based'---
> and that it was used (deployed) pejoratively by derrida in his  
> charmingly smart-ass attempt to criticize (or put into question, as  
> they say)
> the essentialism of writers who claim that speech is prior to the  
> written word....
> something like that....
>                        so it's also about where one locates the  
> logos (in the mouth? or in the pen? or both, or neither?)...
> Chris
>
> On Jan 28, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> You are right, coined by Derrida, or logocentrism, the tendency to  
>> place everything in the logos (= word, reason or spirit).
>> From: Chris Stroffolino
>> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:32 AM
>>
>>
>> don't know if this will help or hurt or do nothing, but one of my  
>> favorite 'silly' academic words (especially silly, because it's  
>> sometimes accompanies by these sober-faced high toned earnest  
>> voices) is Phallogocentric......i think derrida coined it...
>>            anyway....in the beginning was that word (and they're  
>> trying not to make it flesh....)
>>
>> C
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 11:37:42 2007
From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:37:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] All Hail NewPo
In-Reply-To: <200701291407.l0TE78t6028531@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <656450.51921.qm@web35511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I love all the orthographic erudition, very nice --
having a thing for the Medieval, myself -- even though
my original point was that those letters are quite
*pretty*, too: cf for instance the simple loveliness
of some of Geof Huth's imaginary letters. Or that's
how *I* think of them, anyhow.
Being on the Poetics list these days and having to
*put up with it*, I must reiterate how nice it is to
be a part of NewPo. May it never become too famous. A
la votre, mes amis!
Amicalement,
Alex

www.alexdickow.net/blog/
   
  les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin
  merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet



From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu  Mon Jan 29 11:56:48 2007
From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:56:48 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
In-Reply-To: <BEF0D1D3-CD6E-47AE-AA4B-F3D4006F742B@ripon.edu>
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>	<005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>	<45BE068F.1010504@medicine.nodak.edu>
	<BEF0D1D3-CD6E-47AE-AA4B-F3D4006F742B@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <45BE2750.1090802@medicine.nodak.edu>



David Graham wrote:
> Whenever I'm in doubt, I just pronounce any English name "Chumley."
> Since we seem to be among Those Who Know Such Things, I'll ask 
> something I've wondered about.
> When Thomas Hardy puts the exclamation "ay!" into his poems, how would 
> he have pronounced that?  Long-I or long-A?  
David,

www.answers.com says that "ay" is pronounced as a long "i" when used to 
mean "yes," and pronounced as a long "a" when used to mean "always." I 
regret not having a
more authoritative source at hand, and I'm not familiar enough with 
Hardy to know whether he uses "ay" in both senses. Maybe some of our 
British contributors can
provide a better answer.

Similarly, concerning Chumley. I always thought that its origin 
(Cholmondeley) was in the Indian Raj, and was one of those many names 
the British reduced by mumbling
(as in Worcester). However, according to www.last-names.net, I was wrong 
about the source. Their story runs as follows:

        "(origin: Norman. Local) The place at the gorge or neck of the 
mountain; from Col, a strait or defile, and mond or mont, a hill. This 
name is pronounced Chumley.                 An English gentleman meeting 
the Earl of Cholmondeley one day coming out of his own house, and not 
being acquainted with him, asked him if Lord                             
    Chol-mond-e-ley (pronouncing each syllable distinctly) was at home. 
"No," replied the peer, without hesitation, "nor any of his pe-o-ple."

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu


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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Mon Jan 29 12:49:19 2007
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:49:19 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 31, Issue 48
In-Reply-To: <005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>
	<005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>
Message-ID: <fde503480701290949j5dc53be8m1955f5a5012dee@mail.gmail.com>

and his nickname is of course "ming the merciless"
On 1/29/07, Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Curiously, some of this played-out slightly differently when printing
> reached Scotland.  There, the original yogh (which in Old English,
> confusingly could represent either of the sounds which are now printed as
> "y" and "g") was retained, but represented by the letter "z", leading to the
> current situation where the leader of the Liberal Democratic party here,
> Menzies Campbell, has his given-name pronounced <mingus>, as in the jazz
> player.
>
> Robin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


-- 
http://www.badstep.net/
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious."


From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 29 16:15:57 2007
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:15:57 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The yogh
References: <207795.55420.qm@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<45BD575C.9010306@myuw.net>	<005f01c743a0$f6ddae20$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721>	<45BE068F.1010504@medicine.nodak.edu><BEF0D1D3-CD6E-47AE-AA4B-F3D4006F742B@ripon.edu>
	<45BE2750.1090802@medicine.nodak.edu>
Message-ID: <000d01c743ea$ada66540$4101a8c0@pc2b565f661721>

<<
David Graham wrote:

Since we seem to be among Those Who Know Such Things, I'll ask something 
I've wondered about.
When Thomas Hardy puts the exclamation "ay!" into his poems, how would he 
have pronounced that?  Long-I or long-A?
David,
>>

David,

Could you specify which particular Hardy poem or poems?  Might turn on 
whether the speaker is "Hardy" or a figure using dialect.  Hardy (unlike, 
say, William Barnes) doesn't use dialect much, and usually the speaker is 
"the poet", but there are cases -- I'm thinking of "The Ruined Maid, for 
instance -- where the answer might turn on class/register/rural vs urban 
speech/ etc.

<<
www.answers.com says that "ay" is pronounced as a long "i" when used to mean 
"yes," and pronounced as a long "a" when used to mean "always." I regret not 
having a
more authoritative source at hand, and I'm not familiar enough with Hardy to 
know whether he uses "ay" in both senses. Maybe some of our British 
contributors can
provide a better answer.
>>

Richard:

Pretty much, I'd guess.  Again, there are a variety of things which *could 
be represented by "ay", most now non-standard, and pronounced differently in 
different parts of the country.  (Or countries -- we do these things 
differently in Scotland.)

<Ay> = "yes" (as in the nautical "Aye, aye, sir!") would be pronounced as is 
eye (the instrument of vision).

<Ay> = forever, stretching into the past, etc. (now archaic) I think might 
swing either way.

There's also <Ay[!]> as a simple exclamation.

In Scots, something like <Ay> could also represent [the number] "one", as in 
Burns' "Ay fond kiss".

Och aye the noo, it's a fair kettle of bananas to be sure.

Robin

(a partial English speaker) 




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Jan 30 14:31:19 2007
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:31:19 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Barry Schwabsky
Message-ID: <00a301c744a5$37f0f7a0$8eec3652@ANNY>

Poetry evenings at Parasol Unit will resume this spring with Peter Cole and Tony Lopez on 3 March, Lyn Hejinian and Barrett Watten on 29 March and Michael Glover and Ernesto Priego on 5 June. 

Saturday, 3 March, 6 PM

Peter Cole's two books of poems originally published in the United States have now been published together as What Is Doubled: Poems 1981-1998 (Shearsman, 2005). He has also published many volumes of translations of medieval and contemporary Hebrew as well as Arabic poetry, for which he has won the TLS Translation Prize and the PEN-American Translation Award, among others. He lives in Jerusalem where he co-edits Ibis Editions, a press devoted to the literature of the Levant.
Tony Lopez teaches at the University of Plymouth and is the author of many books and pamphlets of poetry including Devolution (The Figures, 2000), Data Shadow (Reality Street, 2000), and False Memory (Salt, 2003), which Robert Potts in the Guardian called "by far my favourite individual volume of poetry this year. a series of sonnet sequences collaging and remixing the white noise of 1990s Britain into a disorienting, sometimes hilarious, often sinister, and always satirical challenge." His most recent book is Meaning Performance: Essays in Poetry (Salt, 2006).

Thursday, 29 March, 6:30 PM

Lyn Hejinian is the author of many books, including Writing is An Aid to Memory (The Figures, 1978), My Life (third edition, Green Integer, 2002), Oxota: A Short Russian Novel (The Figures, 1991), and The Fatalist (Omnidawn, 2003). Her essays are collected in The Language of Inquiry (University of California Press, 2000). She was editor of Tuumba Press, 1976-84 and co-editor (with Barrett Watten) of Poetics Journal, 1981-99 and is now co-director of Atelos. A Chancellor of the Academy of American Poets, she teaches at the University of California, Berkeley.
Barrett Watten is a poet and a professor of literature and cultural studies at Wayne State University in Detroit. He has published two volumes of literary and cultural criticism, of which The Constructivist Moment: From Material Text to Cultural Poetics (Wesleyan, 2003) was awarded the Ren? Wellek Prize in 2004. His published works of poetry include Frame (1971-1990), published by Sun and Moon in 1997; Bad History (Atelos, 1998); and Progress/Under Erasure (Green Integer, 2004). Watten edited This, one of the central little magazines of the experimental writers who would be known as the Language school, and co-edited Poetics Journal, one of its theoretical venues. The Grand Piano, a multi-authored "experiment in collective autobiography" of the period, began serial publication in November 2006. Recently, he spent time in Germany as a Fulbright Fellow, at the University of T?bingen and in Berlin, where he wrote on visual art, performance, and cultural politics. 

Tuesday, 5 June, 6:30 PM

Michael Glover has written art criticism for The Times, The Economist, The Independent, and The Financial Times, among others. He is the author of several books and chapbooks of poetry, including Amidst All This Debris (2001) and The Bead-Eyed Man (2000), both from Dagger Press, and Impossible Horizons (Sinclair-Stevenson, 1995). Of his new book, For the Sheer Hell of Living, to be published this year by San Marco Press, John Ashbery writes, "Michael Glover's lines unspool gravely and efficiently with few commas like waves that know they are on the way to someplace but without making much fuss about it. They can be piercingly sad and hilariously wry, sometimes at the same time, as: 'Someone loses the midge swat./ Many glasses are raised.'-this from a poem called 'Few things happen.' Few things happen here, true, but those that do are tremendously important even when tiny."
Ernesto Priego is a Mexican poet, essayist, and translator presently living in London. He is the author of Not Even Dogs (Meritage Press, 2006) as well as the blogs "Never Neutral" (http://neverneutral.wordpress.com/) and "The Jainak? Project" (http://thejainakuproject.blogspot.com/). A recent interview with him can be found on Tom Beckett's blog "E



The readings are organized and introduced by Barry Schwabsky. Previous readers have been Tim Atkins, Guy Bennett, Kelvin Corcoran, Linh Dinh, Carrie Etter, Allen Fisher, Mark Ford, Lee Harwood, Sue Hubbard, Vincent Katz, Drew Milne, Redell Olsen, Anthony Rudolf, Leslie Scalapino, Barry Schwabsky, John Seed, Simon Smith, Carol Szymanski, and Catherine Wagner.

Readings begin at 6:30 PM (except for Saturday, 3 March, which begins at 6 PM) and are free to the public. Parasol Unit is located at 14 Wharf Road, London N1, near the Old Street and Angel tube stations.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 00:00:13 2007
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:00:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <137541.11278.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Volver ???
a film with women
in every major role

May Day ???
Robert Kelly
and the question of
poems vs. poetry

Kenny Goldsmith
writes a blog
on uncreative writing
for Poetry Magazine!

Babel
and the ensemble film
of globalization

Experimental Form
and Issues of Accessibility
(Susanne Dyckman, Rusty Morrison,
Maxine Chernoff, Paul Hoover,
and Jaime Robles)

Daisy Fried 
should win
the National Book Critics Circle Award
by acclamation

Confusing character transference
with reading

Nathaniel Mackey???s
Splay Anthem
has to be read aloud

IFLIFE, the poem,
is Bob Perelman???s love-hate story
with the whole of poetry

A guide to Bob Perelman???s
Guide to Homage to Sextus Propertius

IFLIFE, the book,
a dizzying display of mastery


http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Jan 31 22:05:38 2007
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:05:38 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] I have to kill the rooster
Message-ID: <1E81051F-3E09-49C8-B99A-E595291C0129@ripon.edu>

Oh, mostly just testing to see if NewPo still exists. . . .


Rooster

             to Pat Ryan

I have to kill the rooster tomorrow.  He's being an asshole,
having seriously wounded one of our two hens with his insistent banging.
You walk into the barn to feed the horses and pick up an egg
or two for breakfast and he jumps her proclaiming she's mine she's mine.
Her wing is torn and the primary feathers won't grow back.
Chickens have largely been denatured, you know. He has no part
in those delicious fresh eggs. He crows on in a vacuum. He is
utterly pointless. He's as dumb as a tapeworm and no one cares
if he lives or dies.  There.  I can kill him
with an easy mind.  But I'm still not up to it. Maybe I can hire
a weasel or a barn rat to do the job, or throw him to Justine,
the dog, who would be glad to rend him except the neighbors
have chickens too, she'd get the habit and we would have a beloved
shot dog to bury.  So he deserves to die, having no purpose. We'll
have stewed barnyard chicken, closer to eating a gamebird than
that tasteless supermarket chicken born and bred in a caged
darkness. Everything we eat is dead except an occasional oyster
or clam.  Should I hire the neighbor boy to kill him?  Will the
hens stop laying out of grief?  Isn't his long wavering crow
magnificent?  Isn't the worthless rooster the poet's bird brother?
  No.  He's just a rooster and the world has no place for him.
Should I wait for a full wintry moon, take him to the top of the
hill after dropping three hits of mescaline and strangle him?
Should I set him free for a fox meal? They're coming back now
after the mange nearly wiped them out.  He's like a leaking roof
with drops falling on my chest.  He's the Chinese torture in the barn.
He's lust mad.  His crow penetrates walls.  His head bobs in lunar
jerks.  The hens shudder but are bored with the pain of eggs.
What can I do with him?  Nothing isn't enough.  In the morning
we will sit down together and talk it out. I will tell him he
doesn't matter and he will wag his head, strut, perhaps crow.


--Jim Harrison.  Selected & New Poems, 1961-1981.  Dell Publishing  
Co., 1982.



========================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
==========================================



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