From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 1 12:52:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 18:52:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Five Easy Pieces Message-ID: <002701c74629$b14dd520$83a93452@ANNY> sent by Anne Tardos: in the 2007 issue of Big Bridge HERE www.annetardos.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 1 16:53:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:53:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Aaron Belz Message-ID: <001c01c7464b$67902560$83a93452@ANNY> Gertrude Stein "Finally George A Vocabulary of Thinking" This piece appeared in HOW TO WRITE. I need a copy of it electronically. If you have it, or you know where I might access it, please let me know ASAP! Thanks! Aaron aaron at belz.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 1 16:56:20 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:56:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sound in Stevens Message-ID: <002301c7464b$cef08830$83a93452@ANNY> CALL FOR PAPERS A Special Issue of The Wallace Stevens Journal Topic: Sound in Stevens Given Wallace Stevens' pronouncements about the significance of sound and the prominent attention to sound and sonic phenomena throughout his poetry, it is time again to devote attention to this important facet of his poetics. This special issue of The Wallace Stevens Journal welcomes papers on any aspect of the expressivity of sound in Stevens. Particularly welcome are papers on the rhythms of Stevens' verse as well as articles that introduce new scholarly directions since the Fall 1991 WSJ volume, "Stevens and Structures of Sound." Suggested topics follow: * Stevens' play with the sonic properties of English, French, and other foreign or symbolic languages * The role of rhythm and other sonic poetic structures in Stevens' verse * The non-semantic and other properties of sound that might interest Stevens * Explications, with examples, of Stevens' famous pronouncements and winking subterfuges regarding the role of sound and the sound of words in poetry * The range of human and non-human speakers in Stevens' verse * Consideration of how sound in Stevens may or may not connect with Stevens' politics * Critical resistance or impediments to studies of sound and rhythm in Stevens * The significance of Stevens' experiments with sound in relation to other modernist as well as later experimental writers * Reflection on Stevens' reading style and reception of his poetry readings, live and recorded Papers should be sent by July 15, 2007, to: Natalie Gerber Department of English 277 Fenton Hall SUNY Fredonia Fredonia, NY 14063 Email: gerber at fredonia.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Feb 1 17:11:46 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:11:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Gian Carlo Menotti (1911-2007) Message-ID: February 1, 2007 Gian Carlo Menotti, Opera Composer, Dies at 95 By BERNARD HOLLAND Gian Carlo Menotti, who wrote his first opera before he was 11 and went on to become perhaps the most popular and prolific opera composer of his time, winning two Pulitzer Prizes, died today in Monaco. He was 95. His death, at Princess Grace Hospital, was announced by his son, Francis. Though critics often dismissed Mr. Menotti?s music as maudlin and unadventurous, many of them still celebrated his impressive lyric gifts, his deft touch with orchestral sound and his talent for making opera comprehensible and enjoyable for people who had previously shunned it. Of his critics, he once said, ?They often spoil my breakfast but never my lunch.? His contemporaries, too, were sometimes unkind. Igor Stravinsky dismissed Mr. Menotti?s musical language as ?mid-Mascagni.? The composer Luigi Nono withdrew from a project rather than allow his music to appear on the same program as Mr. Menotti?s. Yet well over 600 performances of Mr. Menotti?s made-for-television ?Amahl and the Night Visitors? have been counted, and the piece is done often by amateur companies or in high school gymnasiums. Mr. Menotti?s works, including ?The Medium,? ?The Consul,? ?The Telephone? and ?The Saint of Bleeker Street,? all showed that opera could sustain itself in a Broadway theater, something that Kurt Weill and George Gershwin managed to do only sporadically. Mr. Menotti?s involvement with the musical theater was complete. He composed 25 operas, almost all of them in English. He wrote his own librettos and usually staged his works. He also founded and directed for many years the Festival of Two Worlds, a long-running summer music festival that began in 1958 in Spoleto, Italy. In 1977, he helped establish an American arm of Spoleto in Charleston, S.C. Among other things, the festival gave American musicians and composers an important forum. He withdrew from the Charleston festival in 1993, after years of wrangling with its administrators and city officials. Much of his professional life was spent in the United States, and he usually spoke of himself as an American composer, despite retaining his Italian citizenship and despite removing to an estate of baronial splendor near the Scottish border. In a musical age in which controversy usually centered on the avant- garde, Mr. Menotti was controversial for his conservatism. Writing of his opera ?The Last Savage? in 1964, he said: ?To say of a piece that it is harsh, dry, acid and unrelenting is to praise it. While to call it sweet and graceful is to damn it. For better or for worse, in ?The Last Savage? I have dared to do away completely with fashionable dissonance, and in a modest way, I have endeavored to rediscover the nobility of gracefulness and the pleasure of sweetness.? ?Atonal music,? he said elsewhere, ?is essentially pessimistic. It is incapable of expressing joy or humor.? In interviews, the composer Pierre Boulez often served as whipping boy for Mr. Menotti?s musical dislikes. Mr. Menotti?s operas continued the Italian lyric tradition epitomized by composers like Puccini, to whom he was often compared. Donal Henahan, of The New York Times, once wrote, ?He has suffered from a fear almost unknown among contemporary composers, the fear of losing touch with his audience and with the conventions of the traditional stage.? Gian Carlo Menotti was born on July 7, 1911, in Cadegliano, Italy, a small town on Lake Lugano in Lombardy. He was the sixth of eight children in a prosperous merchant family engaged in the coffee business. Mr. Menotti?s mother, Ines, provided piano, violin and cello lessons for her children, and there were evening musicales in the Menotti household that left a profound impression on Gian Carlo as a young child. Mr. Menotti began writing songs when he was 5 years old, and by the age of 11 he had written his first opera, ?The Death of Pierrot,? which was performed as a puppet show at home. His second opera, a version of Hans Christian Andersen?s ?Little Mermaid,? was composed two years later. In 1924, the family moved to Milan, where Gian Carlo attended the Verdi Conservatory of Music for three years and deepened his interest in opera, often going to La Scala. He read widely ? fairy tales especially ? and his growing taste for exoticism, the supernatural and the highly theatrical was to influence his later work. At 17, When Gian Carlo accompanied his mother to Colombia in her final and futile effort to resurrect the family?s collapsing coffee business. On her way back to Italy, in 1928, she deposited her son at the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia. Armed with an introductory letter from Arturo Toscanini?s wife and a rudimentary command of English, Mr. Menotti began his studies with Rosario Scalero, Curtis?s eminent professor of composition. Mr. Scalero found the young man a talent greatly lacking in discipline and set him to a systematic regimen of traditional counterpoint and early-music studies. At Curtis, Mr. Menotti began his partnership with the American composer Samuel Barber. They lived, traveled and worked together intermittently until Mr. Barber?s death in 1981. Mr. Menotti?s first mature opera was begun on an extended sojourn in Austria with Barber after Mr. Menotti graduated from Curtis in 1933. It was called ?Amelia al Ballo? and incorporated characters and situations that were to reappear in his work ? in this case, a frivolous lady?s circumventions of a jealous husband. ?Amelia? was first given in Philadelphia in 1937. In its English version, ?Amelia Goes to the Ball? was successful enough at the Metropolitan Opera in New York to win Mr. Menotti a commission for NBC radio. The work, ?The Old Maid and the Thief,? also a one-act affair, dealt with a spinster?s conspiracy to snare her attractive young lodger. It was first broadcast in 1939 and later reworked for the stage. Mr. Menotti?s first full-blown opera, ?The Island God,? failed badly at the Met in 1942, but ?The Medium,? written in 1946, ran for 211 performances on Broadway the next year with another Menotti piece, ?The Telephone.? ?The Medium? was a compendium of the Menotti style ? delicate orchestration, lyric writing and often a melodramatic theatricality. By 1950, he had finished ?The Consul,? a tale of political outcasts in Europe pitted against an unresponsive bureaucracy. ?The Consul? ran on Broadway for 269 performances and won both the Drama Critics Circle Award and a Pulitzer Prize. Mr. Menotti?s 1951 television opera, ?Amahl and the Night Visitors,? again written for NBC, was perhaps his most popular and successful stage work. ?Amahl? was inspired by Hieronymous Bosch?s painting ?The Adoration of the Magi? and tells of the healing of a crippled boy who offers his crutches as a gift to the Infant Jesus. ?The Saint of Bleeker Street,? first produced on Broadway for the 1954-55 season, carried a theme that much preoccupied Mr. Menotti?s career: the tension between mysticism and faith on the one hand and the cynical ?real? world on the other. It did not make money, but the critics liked it. ?The Saint of Bleeker Street? earned Mr. Menotti his second Pulitzer. He almost always wrote the words for his own operas, and in 1958 he served the same function for Barber. The opera was Barber?s ?Vanessa,? for which Mr. Menotti provided both libretto and stage direction. Soon afterward he wrote librettos for two other operas: Barber?s ?Hand of Bridge? and ?Introductions and Goodbyes? by Lukas Foss. His own operas kept pouring out ? including ?Labyrinth? (1963), ?The Last Savage? (1963), ?Martin?s Lie? (1964), ?Help, Help, the Globolinks? (1968), ?The Most Important Man? (1971), ?The Hero? (1976), ?The Egg? (1976) and ?The Trial of the Gypsy (1978). Mr. Menotti was also active composing ballets, cantatas, orchestral tone poems, instrumental concertos, songs and chamber music. And he wrote several plays. In one, ?The Leper? (1970), he offered a plea for tolerance toward homosexuality. Mr. Menotti lived for many years with Mr. Barber in a house known as Capricorn in Mt. Kisco, N.Y. The house was sold in 1973, and Mr. Menotti moved to Yester House, a 16th-century manor in the hills near Edinburgh, Scotland. The heir presumptive to his personal and musical estate is his son, Francis, who was an aspiring actor when Mr. Menotti met him in the early 1970s. He later adopted him. "Time is what keeps us waiting." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 2 10:22:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:22:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Australia and New Zealand American Studies Association Conference University of Sydney 4-7th July 2008 Message-ID: <002601c746de$003b0360$c4af3252@ANNY> > From: sarah gleeson-white [mailto:s.gleeson-white at adfa.edu.au] > Sent: woensdag 31 januari 2007 22:32 First Call For Papers: Australia and New Zealand American Studies Association Conference University of Sydney 4-7th July 2008 The Department of History at the University of Sydney is delighted to announce that it is hosting the Australia and New Zealand Association for American Studies Conference in 2008. ANZASA brings together scholars from Australia and New Zealand with colleagues who specialise in American Studies from around the world for a major conference held every two years. Proposals for panels and individual (20-minute) papers are now invited. We welcome proposals from across the broad spectrum of American Studies topics. We also plan special themed sessions on the research areas of each of our keynote speakers. Panels and papers addressing those topics are particularly welcome. At present, our confirmed keynote speakers are: George Chauncey: is Professor of History at Yale University. He is best known for his book Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890-1940 (Basic, 1994), which won the Organization of American Historians' Merle Curti Prize for the best book in social history and Frederick Jackson Turner Prize for the best first book in history, as well as the Los Angeles Times Book Prize and Lambda Literary Award. He is also the author of Why Marriage? The History Shaping Today's Debate over Gay Equality (Basic, 2004), and was the organizer and lead author of the Historians' Amicus Brief in Lawrence v. Texas (2003), which was cited extensively in the Supreme Court's landmark decision overturning American sodomy laws. He is currently nearing completion of the sequel to Gay New York, to be titled, The Strange Career of the Closet: Gay Culture, Consciousness, and Politics from the Second World War to the Gay Liberation Era. Ian Tyrrell: is Scientia Professor of History at the University of New South Wales, Sydney. Best known for his studies of the history of women and temperance in the United States, his most recent books are True Gardens of the Gods: Californian-Australian Environmental Reform, 1860-1930 (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999); Deadly Enemies: Tobacco and its Opponents in Australia (Sydney: University of New South Wales Press, 1999); and Historians in Public: American Historical Practice, 1890-1970 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2005). A fellow of the Australian Academy of the Humanities, he was awarded a Commonwealth of Australia Centenary Medal in 2003, and appointed a Scientia Professor in 2007. He is presently engaged on an Australian Research Council Discovery Project (2005-08) on American Cultural Expansion and American Empire, covering the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Proposals for full panels are preferred, but individual paper proposals are also most welcome. Panel proposals should include a panel title, 200-word abstracts of three papers and a brief CV for each person delivering a paper. Individual proposals should include an abstract and brief CV. Postgraduate students, as well as more senior scholars, are warmly encouraged to submit proposals by 30 November 2007. Information on registration will be available shortly; full and concession rates will be available. The Conference will be at the Womens College, University of Sydney, where there is also catered accommodation for a limited number of conference delegates. Discounted rates at several local hotels will also be available; participants should make bookings directly with the hotels. Deadline for proposals: November 30, 2007. Early submission is welcome. Please send your abstracts via email to one of the conference convenors: ? Frances Clarke: frances.clarke at arts.usyd.edu.au ? Clare Corbould: clare.corbould at arts.usyd.edu.au ? Michael McDonnell: michael.mcdonnell at arts.usyd.edu.au ? Stephen Robertson: stephen.robertson at arts.usyd.edu.au Or send to: Department of History, SOPHI (A14) University of Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Ph. 02 9351 6733 Within Australia 61 02 9351 6733 International Fax + 61 (0)2 9351 3918 For updated details, including information about accommodation as it is released, see http://www.anzasa.arts.usyd.edu.au/conference/docs/index.htm Beautiful Sydney serves as the host for the 2008 Australia and New Zealand American Studies Conference that marks the 44th year of ANZASA. Gloriously situated on one of the most beautiful harbours in the world, Sydney is the leading city in New South Wales, and the largest in Australia. It possesses a wealth of stunning natural and heritage sites including the Harbour Bridge, the Opera House, and extensive collections of early examples of Australian art and architecture, along with stunning bush walks around the city and in the numerous nearby National Parks, including the World Heritage listed Blue Mountains. For those who might wish to stay beyond the period of the conference, Sydney is the perfect base from which many short excursions as well as national trips can be undertaken to Australias other major tourist attractions. Sydneys winter climate is temperate with high temperatures in July averaging around 18 degrees celsius, with lows of 9 to 12 degrees celsius. For more information about the city, see: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Fri Feb 2 10:37:14 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:37:14 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] POETICA's 10th Anniversary Message-ID: In a message dated 2/1/2007 6:01:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, airplay at YOUR.ABC.NET.AU writes: ABC Radio National 2-11 February 2007 POETICA 3/2/2007 15:00 8/2/2007 15:00 (repeat) PoeticA's 10th Birthday URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/stories/2007/1823015.htm Poetica celebrates ten years on air with a selection of great poems and voices from the previous 500 programs. Featured poets include Michael Leunig, Dorothy Hewett, Simon Armitage, Billy Collins, Judith Wright, Leonard Cohen and Les Murray. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Feb 3 03:48:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 09:48:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <003b01c74770$17768120$06ae3452@ANNY> Poem: "Jack + Judy" by Doreen Fitzgerald, from Cake: Selected Poems. ? The Ester Republic Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Jack + Judy She was stuck on him like a three-cent stamp on a postcard showing a roadside diner shaped like a hat; stuck like a stool on a chrome stem waiting to swivel a customer, or the naked thigh on a summer day clinging to the vinyl seat. He could read her like a two-bit cook reads a scribbled order jammed on a spike, fluttering under the greasy fan; like egg on a fork between the tines, or a hot beef sandwich between the teeth. Together, they're waiting on the night, halfway between Peoria and Baton Rouge, where the word OPEN, in red block letters, hangs under the words, EAT HERE, spelled out in perfect blue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRAHAMD Sun Feb 4 11:49:22 2007 From: GRAHAMD (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:49:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Message-ID: Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's journals, by David Orr: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html? _r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin ------------- The longest-running feud is probably the low-intensity border war between so-called experimental poets and their ?mainstream? brethren. Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most people, saying ?mainstream poetry? is like saying ?mainstream tapestry-weaving?), it?s helpful to turn to the experts. In her book ?21st-Century Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at Stanford and longtime champion of the avant-garde, claims the ?dominant? mode in poetry these days is ?expressivist,? whereas experimental writing involves ?constructivism ... the specific understanding that language, far from being a vehicle or conduit for thoughts or feelings outside and prior to it, is itself the site of meaning- making.? She fleshes out this concept with quotations from several contemporary avant-garde poets, who argue among other things that ?there are no thoughts except through language? and ?as soon as I start listening to the words they reveal their own vectors and affinities, pull the poem into their own field of force, often in unforeseen directions.? Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as it goes? and ?may be worked over once it is in being, but may not be worried into being,? because ultimately ?the whole thing is performance and prowess and feats of association.? After all, where a given poem is concerned, ?what do I want to communicate but what a hell of a good time I had writing it?? Such poems necessarily disdain lyric sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the pleasure of ulteriority? and are usually ? no surprise ? aggressively bookish (?So many of them have literary criticism in them ? in them?). Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more conservative tastes, but as a general description of much of today?s most successful experimental writing, it?s not too bad. The problem, however, is that only the first two of those statements were actually made by contemporary avant-garde poets. Everything else, of course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, to put it mildly, rarely described as a forefather of vanguard poetics). The point here is not that our self-consciously avant-garde writers are kidding themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class was sliding along the razor?s edge of American culture by reading ?Birches.? No, the point is that whenever we begin forming up teams in American poetry, we run into the problem of picking sides for such complex and hard-to- place poets as Frost, T. S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens (not to mention Marianne Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine Niedecker). Rather than take these writers as they are ? rather than acknowledge, for example, that Frost was as innovative as many poets more often considered ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such figures to a size better suited to the game we want to play. We cut the poet to fit the jersey. --David Orr ------ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 12:12:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:12:08 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: Message-ID: <001b01c7487f$9a8da8d0$298d3052@ANNY> Frost once said he wanted to be seen as ?the exception I like to think I am in everything.? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's journals, by David Orr: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin ------------- The longest-running feud is probably the low-intensity border war between so-called experimental poets and their ?mainstream? brethren. Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most people, saying ?mainstream poetry? is like saying ?mainstream tapestry-weaving?), it?s helpful to turn to the experts. In her book ?21st-Century Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at Stanford and longtime champion of the avant-garde, claims the ?dominant? mode in poetry these days is ?expressivist,? whereas experimental writing involves ?constructivism ... the specific understanding that language, far from being a vehicle or conduit for thoughts or feelings outside and prior to it, is itself the site of meaning-making.? She fleshes out this concept with quotations from several contemporary avant-garde poets, who argue among other things that ?there are no thoughts except through language? and ?as soon as I start listening to the words they reveal their own vectors and affinities, pull the poem into their own field of force, often in unforeseen directions.? Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as it goes? and ?may be worked over once it is in being, but may not be worried into being,? because ultimately ?the whole thing is performance and prowess and feats of association.? After all, where a given poem is concerned, ?what do I want to communicate but what a hell of a good time I had writing it?? Such poems necessarily disdain lyric sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the pleasure of ulteriority? and are usually ? no surprise ? aggressively bookish (?So many of them have literary criticism in them ? in them?). Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more conservative tastes, but as a general description of much of today?s most successful experimental writing, it?s not too bad. The problem, however, is that only the first two of those statements were actually made by contemporary avant-garde poets. Everything else, of course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, to put it mildly, rarely described as a forefather of vanguard poetics). The point here is not that our self-consciously avant-garde writers are kidding themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class was sliding along the razor?s edge of American culture by reading ?Birches.? No, the point is that whenever we begin forming up teams in American poetry, we run into the problem of picking sides for such complex and hard-to-place poets as Frost, T. S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens (not to mention Marianne Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine Niedecker). Rather than take these writers as they are ? rather than acknowledge, for example, that Frost was as innovative as many poets more often considered ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such figures to a size better suited to the game we want to play. We cut the poet to fit the jersey. --David Orr ------ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks Sun Feb 4 12:48:44 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 09:48:44 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem In-Reply-To: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> > David Graham wrote: > > Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's > journals, by David Orr > There's oar and there's ore and there's or in that Orr Ain't the truth wonderful? Anti-Toximanic-Barry From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 12:58:30 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:58:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: Message-ID: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I've long considered David Orr perhaps the worst mainstream critic of poetry around--as you no doubt know, David--or would guess. The latest evidence of that is that he goes to Marjorie Perloff, "a professor emerita at Stanford," to find out about "21st-Century Modernism," like a good NY Times critic should. Here's a question: if Frost was innovative, what American poet was not? Follow-up question, if you can name one: why not? Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better than just about anyone else. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 4 13:08:49 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:08:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about > poetry. But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way > of doing anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing > poetry better than just about anyone else. ------------ We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 13:17:29 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:17:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003601c74888$bb855ca0$298d3052@ANNY> I always see (horror) it might be my Italian misleading (orrore)... From: "Barry Spacks" Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:48 PM > >> David Graham wrote: >> >> Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's >> journals, by David Orr >> > There's oar and there's ore and there's or in that Orr > > Ain't the truth wonderful? > > Anti-Toximanic-Barry From halvard Sun Feb 4 13:32:17 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:32:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1- or 2-line poem In-Reply-To: <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> Message-ID: <86DC4521-F83D-4DE1-B0FD-7F9CFEDC0F4D@earthlink.net> po tramline Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 13:36:04 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:36:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <005601c7488b$55d38cd0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better than just about anyone else. ------------ We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. Right, David, which is why you provided us with the Orr quotation you did. But I admit I was just doing my duty as New-Poetry's main representative of the otherstream by repeating my boilerplate. BUT, if you can't name a poet who is not innovative, what use is the term? Connectedly, what term should we use to distinguish a Pound or Stein or Hopkins from a Frost--so far as conventionality versus unconventionality is concerned? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 13:38:54 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:38:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu><27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> <003601c74888$bb855ca0$298d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <005b01c7488b$ba8ee750$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'd like to say I see "err," but I don't. A penned sheep will never go the wrong way. --Bob G. From Rsgwynn1 Sun Feb 4 13:47:03 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:47:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem Message-ID: In a message dated 2/4/2007 12:36:48 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > I'd like to say I see "err," but I don't. A penned sheep will never go the > wrong way. > To orr is human; to forgive, Andy Devine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 14:58:25 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:58:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Message-ID: 2 roadivers ina yell-o-wood, & sorrie couldn?t travail uncouth An? be monotraveler, I lonnnng stood & looked [down] as-far-as could to wherit being [under]growth. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 4 15:28:04 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:28:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: Message-ID: <006301c7489a$f99f5240$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Call me crazy, but I like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge 2 roadivers ina yell-o-wood, & sorrie couldn?t travail uncouth An? be monotraveler, I lonnnng stood & looked [down] as-far-as could to wherit being [under]growth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 16:38:57 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:38:57 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears Message-ID: Leavetaking One the morning they left we said goodbye filled with sadness for the absence of come Inside the palanquins on the camels? backs I saw their faces beautiful as moons behind veils of gold cloth. Beneath the veils tears crept like scorpions over the fragrant roses of their cheeks. Ibn Khaf?ja (1058-1138) Poems of Arab Adalusia, City Lights, 1989, translated by Cola Franzen -- In the Lake District In those days, in a place where dentists thrive (their daughters order fancy clothes from London; their painted forceps hold aloft on signboards a common and abstracted Wisdom Tooth), there I?whose mouth held ruins more abject than any Parthenon?a spy, a spearhead from some fifth column of a rotting culture (my cover was a lit. professorship), was living at a college near the most renowned of the fresh-water lakes; the function to which I?d been appointed was to wear out the patience of the ingenuous local youth. Whatever I wrote then was incomplete: my lines expired in strings of dots. Collapsing, I dropped, still fully dressed, upon my bed. At night I stared up at the darkened ceiling until I saw a shooting star, which then, conforming to the laws of self-combustion, would flash?before I'd even made a wish? across my cheek and down onto my pillow. --Joseph Brodsky, "In the Lake District," (translated by Geo. L. Kline), A Part of Speech, FSG, 1980 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 17:26:55 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:26:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <006301c7489a$f99f5240$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <010301c748ab$eb601aa0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Call me crazy, but I like that. --Mole I don't--it's too experiemental. --Ubermole -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 17:37:25 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:37:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears Message-ID: Typo alert: "On the morning they left..." here corrected... Leavetaking On the morning they left we said goodbye filled with sadness for the absence of come Inside the palanquins on the camels? backs I saw their faces beautiful as moons behind veils of gold cloth. Beneath the veils tears crept like scorpions over the fragrant roses of their cheeks. Ibn Khaf?ja (1058-1138) Poems of Arab Adalusia, City Lights, 1989, translated by Cola Franzen -- In the Lake District In those days, in a place where dentists thrive (their daughters order fancy clothes from London; their painted forceps hold aloft on signboards a common and abstracted Wisdom Tooth), there I?whose mouth held ruins more abject than any Parthenon?a spy, a spearhead from some fifth column of a rotting culture (my cover was a lit. professorship), was living at a college near the most renowned of the fresh-water lakes; the function to which I?d been appointed was to wear out the patience of the ingenuous local youth. Whatever I wrote then was incomplete: my lines expired in strings of dots. Collapsing, I dropped, still fully dressed, upon my bed. At night I stared up at the darkened ceiling until I saw a shooting star, which then, conforming to the laws of self-combustion, would flash?before I'd even made a wish? across my cheek and down onto my pillow. --Joseph Brodsky, "In the Lake District," (translated by Geo. L. Kline), A Part of Speech, FSG, 1980 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 17:47:31 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:47:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 50 years of concrete poetry Message-ID: <008d01c748ae$748dd4f0$298d3052@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:36 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 50 years of concrete poetry With Geof Huth, Gregory Vincent Thomasino, mIEKAL aND, Luc Fierens, Nikos Vassilakis, ... see here -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/04/2007 11:30:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 17:49:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:49:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears References: Message-ID: <009c01c748ae$ad9dae50$298d3052@ANNY> Two exceptional poems of the first the last stanza and the same name is a poetic line ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears Typo alert: "On the morning they left..." here corrected... Leavetaking On the morning they left we said goodbye filled with sadness for the absence of come Inside the palanquins on the camels? backs I saw their faces beautiful as moons behind veils of gold cloth. Beneath the veils tears crept like scorpions over the fragrant roses of their cheeks. Ibn Khaf?ja (1058-1138) Poems of Arab Adalusia, City Lights, 1989, translated by Cola Franzen -- In the Lake District In those days, in a place where dentists thrive (their daughters order fancy clothes from London; their painted forceps hold aloft on signboards a common and abstracted Wisdom Tooth), there I?whose mouth held ruins more abject than any Parthenon?a spy, a spearhead from some fifth column of a rotting culture (my cover was a lit. professorship), was living at a college near the most renowned of the fresh-water lakes; the function to which I?d been appointed was to wear out the patience of the ingenuous local youth. Whatever I wrote then was incomplete: my lines expired in strings of dots. Collapsing, I dropped, still fully dressed, upon my bed. At night I stared up at the darkened ceiling until I saw a shooting star, which then, conforming to the laws of self-combustion, would flash?before I'd even made a wish? across my cheek and down onto my pillow. --Joseph Brodsky, "In the Lake District," (translated by Geo. L. Kline), A Part of Speech, FSG, 1980 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Feb 4 21:55:00 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 18:55:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. David Graham wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. >> But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing >> anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better >> than just about anyone else. > > ------------ > > We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a > way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over > before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more > interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in > choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jorgensen_a Sun Feb 4 22:20:50 2007 From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:20:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge - Creeley anecdote In-Reply-To: <200702041700.l14H05t6004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <193777.58516.qm@web54611.mail.yahoo.com> As an aside, and this is the first time for me posting, have been a lurker, think it's called, much appreciating the thoughtful posts, I'd like to share an anecdote loosely related to Frost. Guess it was 10 years ago. I called Robert Creeley on the telephone, following our first exchange of letters, told him almost gushingly how much I appreciated his work and his time. Well, the first thing he said, and did so forcefully, was that he "wasn't Robert Frost or anything". Now, that doesn't change his insecurities, or deep sense of not wanting to be that felled tree heard by noone, or anything else someone might say, but it was nice - and we'd joke about it for a few months after. AJ --- new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Frost on the edge (David Graham) > 2. Re: Frost on the edge (Anny Ballardini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:49:22 -0600 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge > To: "NewPoetry & Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent > edition of Frost's > journals, by David Orr: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html? > > _r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin > > ------------- > The longest-running feud is probably the > low-intensity border war > between so-called experimental poets and their > ?mainstream? brethren. > Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most > people, saying > ?mainstream poetry? is like saying ?mainstream > tapestry-weaving?), > it?s helpful to turn to the experts. In her book > ?21st-Century > Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at > Stanford and > longtime champion of the avant-garde, claims the > ?dominant? mode in > poetry these days is ?expressivist,? whereas > experimental writing > involves ?constructivism ... the specific > understanding that > language, far from being a vehicle or conduit for > thoughts or > feelings outside and prior to it, is itself the site > of meaning- > making.? She fleshes out this concept with > quotations from several > contemporary avant-garde poets, who argue among > other things that > ?there are no thoughts except through language? and > ?as soon as I > start listening to the words they reveal their own > vectors and > affinities, pull the poem into their own field of > force, often in > unforeseen directions.? > > Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as > it goes? and ?may > be worked over once it is in being, but may not be > worried into > being,? because ultimately ?the whole thing is > performance and > prowess and feats of association.? After all, where > a given poem is > concerned, ?what do I want to communicate but what a > hell of a good > time I had writing it?? Such poems necessarily > disdain lyric > sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the > pleasure of > ulteriority? and are usually ? no surprise ? > aggressively bookish > (?So many of them have literary criticism in them ? > in them?). > Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more > conservative tastes, > but as a general description of much of today?s most > successful > experimental writing, it?s not too bad. > > The problem, however, is that only the first two of > those statements > were actually made by contemporary avant-garde > poets. Everything > else, of course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, > to put it mildly, > rarely described as a forefather of vanguard > poetics). The point here > is not that our self-consciously avant-garde writers > are kidding > themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class > was sliding along > the razor?s edge of American culture by reading > ?Birches.? No, the > point is that whenever we begin forming up teams in > American poetry, > we run into the problem of picking sides for such > complex and hard-to- > place poets as Frost, T. S. Eliot and Wallace > Stevens (not to mention > Marianne Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine > Niedecker). Rather than > take these writers as they are ? rather than > acknowledge, for > example, that Frost was as innovative as many poets > more often > considered ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such > figures to a > size better suited to the game we want to play. We > cut the poet to > fit the jersey. > > --David Orr > > ------ > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070204/69d5b2a4/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:12:08 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: <001b01c7487f$9a8da8d0$298d3052 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Frost once said he wanted to be seen as ?the > exception I like to think I am in everything.? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry & Views > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:49 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge > > > Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent > edition of Frost's journals, by David Orr: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin > > > ------------- > The longest-running feud is probably the > low-intensity border war between so-called > experimental poets and their ?mainstream? brethren. > Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most > people, saying ?mainstream poetry? is like saying > ?mainstream tapestry-weaving?), it?s helpful to turn > to the experts. In her book ?21st-Century > Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at > Stanford and longtime champion of the avant-garde, > claims the ?dominant? mode in poetry these days is > ?expressivist,? whereas experimental writing > involves ?constructivism ... the specific > understanding that language, far from being a > vehicle or conduit for thoughts or feelings outside > and prior to it, is itself the site of > meaning-making.? She fleshes out this concept with > quotations from several contemporary avant-garde > poets, who argue among other things that ?there are > no thoughts except through language? and ?as soon as > I start listening to the words they reveal their own > vectors and affi! > nities, pull the poem into their own field of force, > often in unforeseen directions.? > > Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as > it goes? and ?may be worked over once it is in > being, but may not be worried into being,? because > ultimately ?the whole thing is performance and > prowess and feats of association.? After all, where > a given poem is concerned, ?what do I want to > communicate but what a hell of a good time I had > writing it?? Such poems necessarily disdain lyric > sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the > pleasure of ulteriority? and are usually ? no > surprise ? aggressively bookish (?So many of them > have literary criticism in them ? in them?). > Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more > conservative tastes, but as a general description of > much of today?s most successful experimental > writing, it?s not too bad. > > The problem, however, is that only the first two > of those statements were actually made by > contemporary avant-garde poets. Everything else, of > course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, to put it > mildly, rarely described as a forefather of vanguard > poetics). The point here is not that our > self-consciously avant-garde writers are kidding > themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class > was sliding along the razor?s edge of American > culture by reading ?Birches.? No, the point is that > whenever we begin forming up teams in American > poetry, we run into the problem of picking sides for > such complex and hard-to-place poets as Frost, T. S. > Eliot and Wallace Stevens (not to mention Marianne > Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine Niedecker). > Rather than take these writers as they are ? rather > than acknowledge, for example, that Frost was as > innovative as many poets more often considered > ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such figures to > a size better suited to the game we want to pla! > y. We cut the poet to fit the jersey. > > --David Orr > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070204/0038fb12/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 4 > ***************************************** > --- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From grahamd Sun Feb 4 22:25:30 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:25:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> Message-ID: Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" I'm on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining as battle lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, was to question the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old battle lines. I take it you disagree? Say more? On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. > > David Graham wrote: >> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up >> sides in this old and pointless battle. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 22:39:26 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:39:26 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: Frost's poetry certainly speaks for itself. It has nothing to fear from time or boundless innovative poetries. He wrote some poems that will outlast hundreds of innovators. Randall Jarrell's essay the "The Other Frost" says it all. The reason this discussion gets tiresome (or pointless), it because it's a simple, or simplistic, dialectic that is being set up. And innovators (or supposed innovators) always seem to forget that they don't innovate ex nihilo. Frost wrote more from the tradition. Without the tradition there is no sense of talking about innovation. The 'innovators' always look to outward...and that space is boundless and their innovation can go on ad infinitum. Yet, if one looks inside, toward inner space, as though one was going inside the atom, the space is equally vast and boundless. Some poets choose the latter course. Finnegan In a message dated 2/4/2007 9:55:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. David Graham wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. >> But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing >> anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better >> than just about anyone else. > > ------------ > > We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a > way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over > before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more > interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in > choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Feb 4 22:41:12 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:41:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> Message-ID: <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's reputation as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and highly overrated. I also think think if one is looking at a overview of american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp that poetry has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years. If that decline is anybody's fault, it's robert frost's, the popularity of his boring poetry being a signal to the casual observer--who may begin and end his or her encounter with american poetry when he or she reads stopping by the woods on a snowy evening in high school--that this is the nature of all poetry and therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in vague and unmusical ways. David Graham wrote: > Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" I'm > on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining as battle > lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, was to question > the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old battle lines. I take > it you disagree? Say more? > > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. >> >> David Graham wrote: >> >>> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >>> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up >>> sides in this old and pointless battle. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Sun Feb 4 23:09:52 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:09:52 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> Message-ID: <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> Wow. This is a battle I didn't even know I was fighting, against the notion that Frost is boring & overrated & (double wow) unmusical. I've nothing more to say, except good luck fighting that one. . . . And here's a Frost poem for your trouble. TO EARTHWARD Love at the lips was touch As sweet as I could bear; And once that seemed too much; I lived on air That crossed me from sweet things, The flow of-- was it musk From hidden grapevine springs Down hill at dusk? I had the swirl and ache From sprays of honeysuckle That when they're gathered shake Dew on the knuckle. I craved strong sweets, but those Seemed strong when I was young; The petal of the rose It was that stung. Now no joy but lacks salt That is not dashed with pain And weariness and fault; I crave the stain Of tears, the aftermark Of almost too much love, The sweet of bitter bark And burning clove. When stiff and sore and scarred I take away my hand From leaning on it hard In grass and sand, The hurt is not enough: I long for weight and strength To feel the earth as rough To all my length. On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:41 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's > reputation as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and > highly overrated. I also think think if one is looking at a > overview of american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence > has resulted in much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy > Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and > elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp that poetry > has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years. If > that decline is anybody's fault, it's robert frost's, the > popularity of his boring poetry being a signal to the casual > observer--who may begin and end his or her encounter with american > poetry when he or she reads stopping by the woods on a snowy > evening in high school--that this is the nature of all poetry and > therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian > dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in > vague and unmusical ways. > > David Graham wrote: >> Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" >> I'm on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining >> as battle lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, >> was to question the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old >> battle lines. I take it you disagree? Say more? >> On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. >>> >>> David Graham wrote: >>> >>>> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >>>> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing >>>> up sides in this old and pointless battle. >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ========================================== >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Feb 4 23:14:59 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 20:14:59 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <45C6AF43.50802@myuw.net> yep, it's an uphill battle, i'm sure, and the tides of history and popular are so far against me. i'm too much of a romantic. i think the fact that it's a lost cause makes me want to keep fighting as much as my conviction that i'm right. thanks for the poem. i'll probably go to my grave wondering why people can read stuff like that and not come to the conclusion that frost was tone deaf. David Graham wrote: > Wow. This is a battle I didn't even know I was fighting, against the > notion that Frost is boring & overrated & (double wow) unmusical. > > I've nothing more to say, except good luck fighting that one. . . . > > And here's a Frost poem for your trouble. > > > TO EARTHWARD > > Love at the lips was touch > As sweet as I could bear; > And once that seemed too much; > I lived on air > > That crossed me from sweet things, > The flow of-- was it musk > From hidden grapevine springs > Down hill at dusk? > > I had the swirl and ache > From sprays of honeysuckle > That when they're gathered shake > Dew on the knuckle. > > I craved strong sweets, but those > Seemed strong when I was young; > The petal of the rose > It was that stung. > > Now no joy but lacks salt > That is not dashed with pain > And weariness and fault; > I crave the stain > > Of tears, the aftermark > Of almost too much love, > The sweet of bitter bark > And burning clove. > > When stiff and sore and scarred > I take away my hand > From leaning on it hard > In grass and sand, > > The hurt is not enough: > I long for weight and strength > To feel the earth as rough > To all my length. > > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:41 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's >> reputation as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and highly >> overrated. I also think think if one is looking at a overview of >> american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in >> much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's >> assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and elsewhere) that it is the >> fault of the post/avant camp that poetry has declined in cultural >> currency over the last hundred years. If that decline is anybody's >> fault, it's robert frost's, the popularity of his boring poetry being >> a signal to the casual observer--who may begin and end his or her >> encounter with american poetry when he or she reads stopping by the >> woods on a snowy evening in high school--that this is the nature of >> all poetry and therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by >> stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' >> topics in vague and unmusical ways. >> >> David Graham wrote: >> >>> Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" >>> I'm on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining as >>> battle lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, was to >>> question the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old battle >>> lines. I take it you disagree? Say more? >>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>> >>>> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. >>>> >>>> David Graham wrote: >>>> >>>>> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >>>>> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up >>>>> sides in this old and pointless battle. >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>> ========================================== >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Sun Feb 4 23:20:06 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:20:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45C6AF43.50802@myuw.net> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> <45C6AF43.50802@myuw.net> Message-ID: <3F504D1C-DC19-4A7A-B28B-55F77A194B37@ripon.edu> On Feb 4, 2007, at 10:14 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > i'll probably go to my grave wondering why people can read stuff > like that and not come to the conclusion that frost was tone deaf. ========== On that, at least, we may agree. > TO EARTHWARD > Love at the lips was touch > As sweet as I could bear; > And once that seemed too much; > I lived on air > That crossed me from sweet things, > The flow of-- was it musk > From hidden grapevine springs > Down hill at dusk? ============== ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Feb 4 23:21:01 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:21:01 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: In a message dated 2/4/2007 11:15:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: i'll probably go to my grave wondering why people can read stuff like that and not come to the conclusion that frost was tone deaf. Dunno. But I'll probably go to my grave convinced that you are tone deaf if you don't hear the music in Frost's work. Dammit. Now I've gone and gotten myself into yet anotehr exchange about Frost. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 4 23:26:08 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:26:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67CA7E32-36AD-428B-9E9D-D51692E63D3A@ripon.edu> Amen. I still think Jarrell's essays on Frost may be the best thing ever written on him, as his Whitman essay may be on old Walt. I also agree with Bob Grumman that Frost's prose is marvelous. I'm sorry he didn't write more of it. Will have to get a look at the new edition of his journals. Of course, the oppositional impulse, I guess by definition, doesn't go down without a fight, even after the battle has been won. . . . We're always fighting the last war, etc. Not sure that a distinction between "outward" and "inward" space isn't just another too-simple dialectic, though I *think* I see the point. Frost spoke of "the old-fashioned way to be new," as one of his own attempts to describe originality springing from tradition, as of course it always does, whether you're doing new things with iambics, or giving iambics the old heave-ho. On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:39 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Frost's poetry certainly speaks for itself. It has nothing to > fear from time or boundless innovative poetries. He wrote some > poems that will outlast hundreds of innovators. Randall Jarrell's > essay > the "The Other Frost" says it all. > > The reason this discussion gets tiresome (or pointless), it > because it's a simple, or simplistic, dialectic that is being set up. > And innovators (or supposed innovators) always seem to forget > that they don't innovate ex nihilo. Frost wrote more from the > tradition. > Without the tradition there is no sense of talking about innovation. > > The 'innovators' always look to outward...and that space is boundless > and their innovation can go on ad infinitum. Yet, if one looks inside, > toward inner space, as though one was going inside the atom, > the space is equally vast and boundless. Some poets choose > the latter course. > > Finnegan > ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 23:58:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 05:58:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> Message-ID: <002001c748e2$4a1a6100$38ae3252@ANNY> Hi Jason, you are the same Jason who received so many points from me on the Buffalo for your mail on Derrida, aren't you? I am referring to the following: "that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in vague and unmusical ways" Derrida makes of death one of his turning points, see his thorough deconstruction of Rousseau and language. I don't think David and Bob were talking of Frost before, David was talking as David talks and Bob as Bob does. It is a little complicated to understand but you will get to it as soon as you know them better, the same stone is different and will always be according to one or to the other. It is fundamentally a game in this playground, the same sonnets written by Bob show it, as some very good poems by David. From: "Jason Quackenbush" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:41 AM >i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's reputation >as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and highly overrated. I >also think think if one is looking at a overview of american poetry and >it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in much more bad than good. >This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 >introduction and elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp >that poetry has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years. >If that decline is anybody's fault, it's robert frost's, the popularity of >his boring poetry being a signal to the casual observer--who may begin and >end his or her encounter with american poetry when he or she reads stopping >by the woods on a snowy evening in high school--that this is the nature of >all poetry and therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by >stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in >vague and unmusical ways. > From editor Mon Feb 5 00:03:21 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:03:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost In-Reply-To: <200702050341.l153fCt5014411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <177622.95357.qm@web83103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>>"I also think think if one is looking at a overview of american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp that poetry has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years." Get your facts straight sparky! The experimental "camp" in American poetry has not even been around 100 years. Most place it with the viewing of the Armory show and the break from meter exhibited by those who viewed and wrote poems afterward, primarily: Stevens, WCWilliams, Marianne Moore. Even Pound thot Frost admirable when they met 2 years before the Armory, hoisted and forced him upon a publisher even. Frost' influenced some great poets, Jeffers, J. Berryman, James Wright; how does one assess it was "more bad than good?" Nearly all of the best selling poets of all time are a much better example of harm to the craft: Jewel, Billy Corrigan, Leonard Nimoy, Suzanne Sommers. In fact my memory is Ferlinghetti and one other were the only "real" poets of the top ten. Collins' work is Robert Bly and Jim Tate mixed together, what could be more instantly post/avant and SOQ than that? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rebuketheworld Mon Feb 5 00:06:17 2007 From: Rebuketheworld (Rebuketheworld at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 00:06:17 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Message-ID: The Frost debate sure went a big longer than I had expected. Sometimes you just wonder, is there even one poet that receives a respected view from the majority. ~Raven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 5 00:26:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 06:26:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net><45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> <002001c748e2$4a1a6100$38ae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <008001c748e6$22dfd1c0$38ae3252@ANNY> Opps Jason, I think I spoke too early, I hadn't read your answer to Sondheim yet, was still in the yesterday. So long. From: "Anny Ballardini" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:58 AM > Hi Jason, > > you are the same Jason who received so many points from me on the Buffalo > for your mail on Derrida, aren't you? I am referring to the following: > "that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian dead white guys > about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in vague and unmusical ways" > > Derrida makes of death one of his turning points, > see his thorough deconstruction of Rousseau and language. > I don't think David and Bob were talking of Frost before, David was > talking as David talks and Bob as Bob does. It is a little complicated to > understand but you will get to it as soon as you know them better, the > same stone is different and will always be according to one or to the > other. It is fundamentally a game in this playground, the same sonnets > written by Bob show it, as some very good poems by David. From opus40-01 Mon Feb 5 09:28:12 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 08:28:12 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Mon Feb 5 09:29:15 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 08:29:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge - Creeley anecdote Message-ID: <2552.1170685755@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Feb 5 09:37:09 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:37:09 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> References: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> Message-ID: <21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> Reminds me of something Williams Carlos Williams reported about his friendship with Pound. One of their ongoing arguments concerned elitism versus populism, roughly. You can guess who stood up for which. After a while, WCW reported, they no longer needed to have their argument. Pound would just say "caviar!", and Williams would reply, "bread!" --------------------------------------- On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:28 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > No, it's pointless on both sides if, like Dave and Bob, you're old > friends and old antagonists who have had the same argument year in > and year out, and each knows he won't get the other to budge. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Feb 5 09:41:45 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 07:41:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> References: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> <21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60702050641v659588f0s63303bc5407cfef8@mail.gmail.com> Williams would say "bread," and Grumman would have responded, "but there are 17 varieties of bread; mine is the neglected loaf." ;-) ;-) ;-) - Jim On 2/5/07, David Graham wrote: > Reminds me of something Williams Carlos Williams reported about his > friendship with Pound. One of their ongoing arguments concerned elitism > versus populism, roughly. You can guess who stood up for which. > > After a while, WCW reported, they no longer needed to have their argument. > Pound would just say "caviar!", and Williams would reply, "bread!" > > --------------------------------------- > > On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:28 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > No, it's pointless on both sides if, like Dave and Bob, you're old friends > and old antagonists who have had the same argument year in and year out, and > each knows he won't get the other to budge. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From alexdickow9 Mon Feb 5 12:54:59 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:54:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] frost In-Reply-To: <200702050341.l153fCt6014411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <402621.8636.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David, I'm afraid Jason and Bob will find an ally here: I've always hated Frost, almost as much as I hate Carl Sandburg -- even if I think Jason could have been a tad more, uh, diplomatic and respectful towards you in his language. However, I'd say the problem is not that Frost isn't musical, but that he's much too musical, in that placid, cud-chewing way that I found so distasteful when I was, say, in highschool. Sorry to join the fray, and with my due respects to you, since we elsewhere share many tastes, as far as I can tell. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From grahamd Mon Feb 5 13:51:32 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:51:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost In-Reply-To: <402621.8636.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Somewhere long ago in an interview James Wright was asked about his admiration for some not-very-fashionable old writer. Can't remember if it was Herrick, but maybe it was. Anyway, his reply to why he liked Whomever was "Just lucky, I guess." That's sort of how I feel about my love of Frost's work. I hated it throughout high school and college, too, as a matter of fact. What turned things around for me were two experiences. First, I read Jarrell's essays and Richard Poirier's book in grad school, and realized that Frost was in many ways a radically challenging poet intellectually. The second thing was that I had the good fortune to hear a couple poets who not only loved Frost but who read him aloud marvellously: Donald Hall and my old teacher Joe Langland. I could finally *hear* the music. I re-recommend Jarrell's essays on Frost. If anyone reads them and still finds Frost dull, complacent, sentimental, or whatever, well, that's probably that. You've given it your best shot. Either that, or go visit Joe Langland and hear him do "Directive" from memory. . . On 2/5/07 11:54 AM, "Alexander Dickow" wrote: > David, > I'm afraid Jason and Bob will find an ally here: I've > always hated Frost, almost as much as I hate Carl > Sandburg -- even if I think Jason could have been a > tad more, uh, diplomatic and respectful towards you in > his language. However, I'd say the problem is not that > Frost isn't musical, but that he's much too musical, > in that placid, cud-chewing way that I found so > distasteful when I was, say, in highschool. > Sorry to join the fray, and with my due respects to > you, since we elsewhere share many tastes, as far as I > can tell. > Amicalement, > Alex > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 5 15:26:22 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:26:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Jerry McGuire Message-ID: <008401c74963$e6d38400$1da93852@ANNY> :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Jerry McGuire date Feb 5, 2007 6:06 PM subject yr hero for breast cancer mailed-by louisiana.edu Having lied about my overall health to the organizers of this year's five-kilometer "race" [that is, in my case, walk] on March 17th to raise money for breast cancer research, and figuring I might not survive this one, I thought I'd drop a note to all my layabout friends to encourage them to make a contribution out of respect for my heroic sacrifice. I'm attaching the standard blurb below. Maybe you could forward this part of it to some of your friends, see if they want to send a contribution. Our English department "team" got the most cash contributions last year (I wasn't part of it then), so I'm hoping the Goddess helps us cash in. (Of course, if you want me to take it down, just let me know.)But first, a confidential note to the men on my list (meet me at camera three): fellows, let's be realistic. Given all our shoddy performances and bad behavior through the years, we've put ourselves in a very sticky position. The way I see it, to get women on our side for our probable bout with testicular cancer and our inevitable date with our prostate, we'll have to humor them by giving money for breast cancer now. So think of this as an investment in your own sorry old age--and don't skip, or they'll never let me live it down. Cheers, Jerry Please help in the fight against breast cancer by sponsoring me in the 2007 Komen Acadiana Race for the Cure. You can do this in 3 easy steps. 1.Go to komenacadiana.kintera.org and click on "Donate to a Participant." 2.Select my name from the Participant List. And you'll have to type it in immediately afterwards: Jerry McGuire. 3.Enter the amount of your donation and your credit card information. ________________________________________________________ _________ Jerry McGuire English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 Creative Writing Website: http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/05/2007 08:50:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Feb 5 15:49:10 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:49:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c74967$1c0335a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> One line poems with titles (or is that cheating?): Alzheimer's A good head start. * Poem for McDonald's (after opening it's Moscow "restraurant." If you can eat it here, you can eat it anywhere. * For my students: Let's put the youth back in euthanasia. * Ode to Autumn I change more light bulbs. * But there is a one word poem written by a San Francisco graffiti signer (whatever they are called) which is one of the best of its kind. A whale had beached itself on Ocean Beach and before an hour was up our poet had spray-painted the dying whale with his tag: "Rat," proving once again that the world itself is a poem. (And I wonder about the difficulties. Did he have to dry a patch of the whale's body? Were the authorities in presence? Where did he tag the whale? Etc. It's always nice knowing the biographical details of great work.) :-) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:47 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem In a message dated 2/4/2007 12:36:48 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: I'd like to say I see "err," but I don't. A penned sheep will never go the wrong way. To orr is human; to forgive, Andy Devine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Feb 5 17:27:25 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:27:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org><21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> <648208b60702050641v659588f0s63303bc5407cfef8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ac01c74974$d30cbd90$acfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Williams would say "bread," and Grumman would have responded, "but > there are 17 varieties of bread; mine is the neglected loaf." > > ;-) ;-) ;-) > > - Jim Your analogy is so bad, I can't figure out how to correct it, Jim. I say that there is mainstream poetry which can be split into two or three varieties, and non-mainstream poetry, which can be split into 17 varieties, ALL of them ignored by people like you and David and Barry. --Bob From JforJames Mon Feb 5 18:30:01 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:30:01 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost Message-ID: In a message dated 2/5/2007 1:52:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: I hated it throughout high school and college, too, as a matter of fact. What turned things around for me were two experiences. First, I read Jarrell's essays and Richard Poirier's book in grad school, and realized that Frost was in many ways a radically challenging poet intellectually. Very similar to my own experience with. It took me a while to realize the depth and breadth of his merits as poet. It's like Matisse or Monet... some of it is too easy to like...so I didn't want to like it. It wasn't 'innovative' enough, dare I say. But I came around...hearing Frost read the poems helped too. The gravitas and bravura got me, and I began to understand that in his time only Wm. James knew more about the human pysche. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 5 18:42:10 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:42:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost Message-ID: In a message dated 2/5/2007 6:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The gravitas and bravura got me, and I began to understand that in his time only Wm. James knew more about the human pysche. I know they weren't contemporaneous...James was all Victorian, Frost overlapped and went into the modern period. "It has sometimes crossed my mind that James wanted to be a poet and an artist, and that there lay in him, beneath the ocean of metaphysics, a lost Atlantis of fine arts: and that he really hated philosophy and all its works, and pursued them only as Hercules might spin or as a prince in a fairy tale sorts seeds for an evil dragon, or as anyone might patiently do some careful work for which he had no aptitude." John J. Chapman, a friend of William James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Feb 5 19:25:38 2007 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 16:25:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sure, emily dickinson. everybody respects emily dickinson. and really, i think that i'm pretty alone in my Robert-Frost-Hate. On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote: > The Frost debate sure went a big longer than I had expected. Sometimes you > just wonder, is there even one poet that receives a respected view from the > majority. ~Raven > From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 04:50:39 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:50:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Heinrich Heine, 1823 Message-ID: <002d01c749d4$427b4de0$2ce03652@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Heinrich Heine, 1823 Die Lorelei Ich wei? nicht, was soll es bedeuten, Da? ich so traurig bin, Ein M?rchen aus uralten Zeiten, Das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn. Die Luft ist k?hl und es dunkelt, Und ruhig flie?t der Rhein; Der Gipfel des Berges funkelt, Im Abendsonnenschein. Die sch?nste Jungfrau sitzet Dort oben wunderbar, Ihr gold'nes Geschmeide blitzet, Sie k?mmt ihr goldenes Haar, Sie k?mmt es mit goldenem Kamme, Und singt ein Lied dabei; Das hat eine wundersame, Gewalt'ge Melodei. Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe, Ergreift es mit wildem Weh; Er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe, Er schaut nur hinauf in die H?h'. Ich glaube, die Wellen verschlingen Am Ende Schiffer und Kahn, Und das hat mit ihrem Singen, Die Loreley getan. Heinrich Heine -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/06/2007 08:44:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Tue Feb 6 11:38:57 2007 From: editor (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:38:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 50 ANIVERSARIO DE LA POESIA CONCRETA Message-ID: <200702061639.l16GcwOO003197@mail27.atl.registeredsite.com> .?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? 50 ANIVERSARIO DE LA POESIA CONCRETA Disfrute de este espacio en la website BOEK861 de C?sar Reglero, dedicado al homenaje de los 50 a?os de la Poes?a Concreta. http://www.boek861.com/stutgart/ 50 ANNIVERSARY OF CONCRETE POETRY Enjoy this space in Cesar Reglero?s website BOEK861, dedicated to Homage 50 Years of Concrete Poetry. http://boek861.com/stutgart/index_en.htm PARTICIPANTES - PARTICIPANTS Giovanni Fontana, Adam Fong, Adolf, Agust?n Calvo Gal?n, Alejandro Thornton, Alkak Luiz dos Santos y Gilbertto Prado, Ana Glafira, Anamar?a Briede, Angela Ib??ez, Antonella Prota Giurleo, Antoni Albalat, Antonio C?res, Antonio Monterroso, Antonio Orihuela, Baldo Ramos, Beatriz San Mill?n, Birger Jesch, Brian Whitener, Carol Starr, Caterina Davinio, Cecil Touchon, Cesar Reglero, Christian Hasucha, Cirus Console, Claudia del Rio, Claudio Grandinetti, Clemente Pad?n, Constan?a Lucas, Costis, Dan Buck, David Daniels, Demosthene Agrafiotis, Denis Charmot, Emerenciano, Eugenia Serafini, Fausto Grossi, Feliciano Mira, Francesc Xavier For?s, Franco Focardi, Franklin Valverde, G. J. de Rook, Geof Huth, Gerardo Podhajny, Graciela Guti?rrez Marx, Gregory Vincent St Thomasino, Gunther Ruch, Gustavo Fern?ndez Alonso, Gustavo Vega, Henning Mittendorf, Irving Weiss, Isabel Jover, Ivan Etienne, J. M. Calleja, Jeanete EKohler, Joaquim Branco, John Bennett, Jorge Ismael Rodr?guez, Jos? Blanco, Josep Sou, Julien Blaine, Jurgen O.Olbrich, Keiichi Nakamura, Kostas Hrisos, Leticia Alonso Hern?ndez, Litsa Spathi, Lois Gil Magari?os, Lorena Cordero, Luc Fierens, Manuel A. Sousa, Mara Caruso, Mar?a Jos? Ares Mondino, Mark Sutherland, Michael Morris, Miekal And, Miguel Jim?nez Zen?n, Monica Vallejo, Neusa Cauduro, Nicola Frangione, Nikos Vassilakis, Norberto Jos? Mart?nez, P.Thoma, Patricia Robledo, Patricia Sibar, Paul de Vree, Paul Tiilil?, Rainer Stolz, Reed Altemus, Regina Vater, Roberto Scala, Rocia Alegre, Rod Summers, Ruediger Axel Westphal, Ruud Janssen, Sergio Monteiro, Shutaro Mukai, Silvia Lisa, Susana Romano, Tamara Wyndham, Thierry Tiliier, Tom Gaze, Vaclav Havel, Virginia Oviedo Rodr?guez y Vittore Baroni. posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ .?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? From alexdickow9 Tue Feb 6 13:26:42 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:26:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <200702061700.l16H05t6015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim Finnegan wrote: "It's like Matisse or Monet... some of it is too easy to like..." Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either easy to like at all, and not because they're "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't he have just stuck with textile design? Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From barry.spacks Tue Feb 6 15:26:43 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:26:43 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Williams' "bread" vs. Pound's "caviar" In-Reply-To: <200702061700.l16H05t5015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702061700.l16H05t5015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <7FF7C927-D9EF-454C-82D1-EFAA98FC15A6@verizon.net> > caviar sandwich? Barry From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 16:21:53 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 22:21:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> Monet? I love Monet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > Jim Finnegan wrote: > "It's like Matisse or > Monet... > some of it is too easy to like..." > > Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either > easy to like at all, and not because they're > "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what > they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in > complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't > he have just stuck with textile design? > Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays > if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard Tue Feb 6 16:51:15 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:51:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Monet always reminds me of money. Hal "We fought a war on poverty, and poverty won." --Pres. Ronald Reagan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Monet? I love Monet. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > > >> Jim Finnegan wrote: >> "It's like Matisse or >> Monet... >> some of it is too easy to like..." >> >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either >> easy to like at all, and not because they're >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't >> he have just stuck with textile design? >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Tue Feb 6 17:12:49 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:12:49 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur at 85 Message-ID: _http://www.timesunion.com/ASPStories/Story.asp?StoryID=559725&Category=ARTS&L inkFrom=RSS_ (http://www.timesunion.com/ASPStorie s/Story.asp?StoryID=559725&Category=ARTS&LinkFrom=RSS) At 85, poet Wilbur remains a man of words By HILLEL ITALIE, Associated Press First published: Sunday, February 4, 2007 CUMMINGTON, Mass. - Poetry is not literally in the air as you drive through the foothills of the Berkshire Mountains, but as the temperature cools and your cellphone loses its signal, a certain space does open up in your mind, a swell of rhythms from an older and calmer time. Cummington, a small town once home to 19th-century poet William Cullen Bryant, is the primary residence of one of today's most celebrated poets and translators, Richard Wilbur. The 85-year-old is a Pulitzer Prize-winner and former U.S. poet laureate, often cited as an heir to Robert Frost and other New England writers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:16:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:16:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005f01c74a3c$6c25ac90$45df3052@ANNY> :-) poor, he was blind, can you imagine that for a painter... (yes, I do have these senseless romantic outbursts...) From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:51 PM > Monet always reminds me of money. > > Hal > > "We fought a war on poverty, > and poverty won." > --Pres. Ronald Reagan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Monet? I love Monet. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" >> >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 >> >> >>> Jim Finnegan wrote: >>> "It's like Matisse or >>> Monet... >>> some of it is too easy to like..." >>> >>> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either >>> easy to like at all, and not because they're >>> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what >>> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in >>> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't >>> he have just stuck with textile design? >>> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays >>> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. >>> Amicalement, >>> Alex >>> >>> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >>> >>> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >>> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From bobgrumman Tue Feb 6 17:18:55 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:18:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Monet? I love Monet. WHAT??? YOU DON'T LOVE MATISSE!?!? Stupit Italian! I'm weird. I like just about everything in canonical (and near-canonical) painting from around 1700 to Matisse, and almost everything after. --Bob From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:20:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:20:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet Message-ID: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1552 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1275 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1939 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:25:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:25:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <008001c74a3d$a8440900$45df3052@ANNY> I didn't say I do not like Matisse, but I can understand that a someone who looks from the outside can find something not linear with him, me, I am a sink /gutter if you prefer, similar to you From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:18 PM > > >> Monet? I love Monet. > > WHAT??? YOU DON'T LOVE MATISSE!?!? Stupit Italian! > > I'm weird. I like just about everything in canonical (and near-canonical) > painting from around 1700 to Matisse, and almost everything after. > > --Bob From bobgrumman Tue Feb 6 17:43:30 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:43:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY><00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <008001c74a3d$a8440900$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <00c701c74a40$3c4d9bf0$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I didn't say I do not like Matisse, but I can understand that a someone who >looks from the outside can find something not linear with him, me, > I am a sink /gutter if you prefer, similar to you Hey, you shouldda said, "Monet and Matisse? I love those birds!" Too late now. You're on my D-list of Cultured People. --Bob From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:44:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:44:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY><00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><008001c74a3d$a8440900$45df3052@ANNY> <00c701c74a40$3c4d9bf0$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00a601c74a40$54193910$45df3052@ANNY> You know that I do not like to fight, I don't care where you put me, just put me somewhere... or nowhere, that is fine. From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:43 PM > > >>I didn't say I do not like Matisse, but I can understand that a someone >>who looks from the outside can find something not linear with him, me, >> I am a sink /gutter if you prefer, similar to you > > Hey, you shouldda said, "Monet and Matisse? I love those birds!" Too > late now. You're on my D-list of Cultured People. > > --Bob From rwilsnac Tue Feb 6 17:51:00 2007 From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:51:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <45C90654.2010507@medicine.nodak.edu> Bob Grumman wrote: > Monet? I love Monet. > > WHAT??? YOU DON'T LOVE MATISSE!?!? Stupit Italian! If all you are interested in is Monet, nothing else Matisse... Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From JforJames Tue Feb 6 17:53:40 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:53:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Message-ID: Monet Refuses the Operation Doctor, you say that there are no haloes around the streetlights in Paris and what I see is an aberration caused by old age, an affliction. I tell you it has taken me all my life to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, to soften and blur and finally banish the edges you regret I don't see, to learn that the line I called the horizon does not exist and sky and water, so long apart, are the same state of being. Fifty-four years before I could see Rouen cathedral is built of parallel shafts of sun, and now you want to restore my youthful errors: fixed notions of top and bottom, the illusion of three-dimensional space, wisteria separate from the bridge it covers. What can I say to convince you the Houses of Parliament dissolve night after night to become the fluid dream of the Thames? I will not return to a universe of objects that don't know each other, as if islands were not the lost children of one great continent. The world is flux, and light becomes what it touches, becomes water, lilies on water, above and below water, becomes lilac and mauve and yellow and white and cerulean lamps, small fists passing sunlight so quickly to one another that it would take long, streaming hair inside my brush to catch it. To paint the speed of light! Our weighted shapes, these verticals, burn to mix with air and changes our bones, skin, clothes to gases. Doctor, if only you could see how heaven pulls earth into its arms and how infinitely the heart expands to claim this world, blue vapor without end. -- Lisel Mueller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Tue Feb 6 17:59:35 2007 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:59:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20070206165851.066de340@mail.ilstu.edu> Wow! I hadn't seen this one. Very nice. At 04:53 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote: > >Monet Refuses the Operation > >Doctor, you say that there are no haloes >around the streetlights in Paris >and what I see is an aberration >caused by old age, an affliction. >I tell you it has taken me all my life >to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, >to soften and blur and finally banish >the edges you regret I don't see, >to learn that the line I called the horizon >does not exist and sky and water, >so long apart, are the same state of being. >Fifty-four years before I could see >Rouen cathedral is built >of parallel shafts of sun, >and now you want to restore >my youthful errors: fixed >notions of top and bottom, >the illusion of three-dimensional space, >wisteria separate >from the bridge it covers. >What can I say to convince you >the Houses of Parliament dissolve >night after night to become >the fluid dream of the Thames? >I will not return to a universe >of objects that don't know each other, >as if islands were not the lost children >of one great continent. The world >is flux, and light becomes what it touches, >becomes water, lilies on water, >above and below water, >becomes lilac and mauve and yellow >and white and cerulean lamps, >small fists passing sunlight >so quickly to one another >that it would take long, streaming hair >inside my brush to catch it. >To paint the speed of light! >Our weighted shapes, these verticals, >burn to mix with air >and changes our bones, skin, clothes >to gases. Doctor, >if only you could see >how heaven pulls earth into its arms >and how infinitely the heart expands >to claim this world, blue vapor without end. > > -- Lisel Mueller >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Tue Feb 6 17:56:43 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 22:56:43 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: always the cheap shots ... On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Monet always reminds me of money. > > Hal > > "We fought a war on poverty, > and poverty won." > --Pres. Ronald Reagan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Monet? I love Monet. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" > > > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > > > > > >> Jim Finnegan wrote: > >> "It's like Matisse or > >> Monet... > >> some of it is too easy to like..." > >> > >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either > >> easy to like at all, and not because they're > >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what > >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in > >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't > >> he have just stuck with textile design? > >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays > >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. > >> Amicalement, > >> Alex > >> > >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >> > >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From Rebuketheworld Tue Feb 6 18:06:43 2007 From: Rebuketheworld (Rebuketheworld at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:06:43 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Message-ID: _Glenn Beck profiles a 12 year old art prodigy who paints spiritual art work well beyond her years. (December 14)_ (http://dynamic.cnn.com/apps/tp/video/bestoftv/2006/12/14/beck.akiane.child.prodigy.cnn/video.ws.asx?NGUserID=aa570a1- 6893-1166214706-3&adDEmas=R00&hi&cox.net&73&usa&2673101&37&-&-&-&) I just saw this cnn video last night. Here is an artist to know of inspite of ones beliefs or institutions of thought. She writes poetry too. At nine years old she wrote, " Yet when you walk away from the flower, far enough, you see no black spot, just a beautiful blossom." Her website~ _http://www.artakiane.com/press.htm_ (http://www.artakiane.com/press.htm) ~Raven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 6 18:22:55 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:22:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4757AF06-6021-45E6-820B-84B7537176D0@earthlink.net> Puhleez! Inexpensive--never cheap. Hal Please knock before bantering. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 6, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Roger Day wrote: > always the cheap shots ... > > On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Monet always reminds me of money. >> >> Hal >> >> "We fought a war on poverty, >> and poverty won." >> --Pres. Ronald Reagan >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at gmail.com >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> > Monet? I love Monet. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" >> > >> > To: >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 >> > >> > >> >> Jim Finnegan wrote: >> >> "It's like Matisse or >> >> Monet... >> >> some of it is too easy to like..." >> >> >> >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either >> >> easy to like at all, and not because they're >> >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what >> >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in >> >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't >> >> he have just stuck with textile design? >> >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays >> >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. >> >> Amicalement, >> >> Alex >> >> >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From opus40-01 Tue Feb 6 18:35:55 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 17:35:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Message-ID: <1417.1170804955@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Feb 6 19:32:29 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:32:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet In-Reply-To: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> References: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60702061632u60a7e20fr9baf1318ab72a4a6@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Anny, for the three poems. - Jim On 2/6/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From rsillima Tue Feb 6 20:21:41 2007 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:21:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: one million visits later Message-ID: <508722.56227.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT ITEMS The role of spirituality in a world that is no longer god infested (more on Rae Armantrout?s Next Life) On reaching the 1,000,000 visit mark on Silliman?s Blog On Rae Armantrout?s Next Life On Molly Ivins Pedro Almodovar?s Volver The Yam Yad brotherhood (Robert Kelly?s May Day) Kenny Goldsmith Blogging for the Poetry Foundation The ensemble film of globalization (this year it?s Babel) Experimental Forms and Issues of Accessibility (from Susanne Dyckman, Rusty Morrison, Maxine Chernoff, Paul Hoover and Jaime Robles) Critical malpractice in The Nation http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From JforJames Tue Feb 6 21:37:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:37:47 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet Message-ID: Monet's serial painting of the Rouen cathedral, the poplars, etc., are my favorites. It's a wonderful experience when you get to see a group of 5 or more together in a gallery rooom. Alex, I'm sure knows, that the impressionist & post-impressionists, in their time, were roundly disparaged are 'barbarous artists'. We see the technique immitated now, and it seems conventional practice. As what weekend painters and yourg art students do derivatively. One of things that endeared me to Monet was that he had a 'studio boat' built. A boat where he could push off from the banks of the river, drift along, doing his paintings, assured he wouldn't be interrupted by neighbors or other artists.. Perhaps, my eyes have gone bad. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From debra Tue Feb 6 23:42:54 2007 From: debra (Debra Dicembre) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:42:54 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation References: Message-ID: <002101c74a72$78a847d0$0301010a@galaxy> Mindblowing... I'm glad I took the time to look. I saw another program on a young painter, 11 or 12, an Indian girl, (yes I know , off the poetry topic) who produced such Picasso like works at 4 and 5, again, mindblowing. I can't remember her name. Does anyone know it, or heard of her? DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Glenn Beck profiles a 12 year old art prodigy who paints spiritual art work well beyond her years. (December 14) I just saw this cnn video last night. Here is an artist to know of inspite of ones beliefs or institutions of thought. She writes poetry too. At nine years old she wrote, " Yet when you walk away from the flower, far enough, you see no black spot, just a beautiful blossom." Her website~ http://www.artakiane.com/press.htm ~Raven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Wed Feb 7 03:44:56 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:44:56 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <4757AF06-6021-45E6-820B-84B7537176D0@earthlink.net> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> <4757AF06-6021-45E6-820B-84B7537176D0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hah! always the penny dreadfuls! On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Puhleez! Inexpensive--never cheap. > > Hal > > Please knock before bantering. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Feb 6, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > always the cheap shots ... > > > > On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Monet always reminds me of money. > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> "We fought a war on poverty, > >> and poverty won." > >> --Pres. Ronald Reagan > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> halvard at gmail.com > >> halvard at earthlink.net > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> > >> > Monet? I love Monet. > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" > >> > > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM > >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > >> > > >> > > >> >> Jim Finnegan wrote: > >> >> "It's like Matisse or > >> >> Monet... > >> >> some of it is too easy to like..." > >> >> > >> >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either > >> >> easy to like at all, and not because they're > >> >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what > >> >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in > >> >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't > >> >> he have just stuck with textile design? > >> >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays > >> >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. > >> >> Amicalement, > >> >> Alex > >> >> > >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >> >> > >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > >> >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > -- > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 7 07:21:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:21:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet References: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> <648208b60702061632u60a7e20fr9baf1318ab72a4a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002801c74ab2$847d3260$c9aa3852@ANNY> I just sent them the way I found them. Re.: Bob Grumman he is such a good friend (gentleman?), had the courtesy of verifying b/c I was not touched by his grunting remark... :-) and I "stole" Finnegan's post to post it to my blog, that Mueller's poem is just something, From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 1:32 AM > Thanks, Anny, for the three poems. > > - Jim > From m.peverett Wed Feb 7 08:39:46 2007 From: m.peverett (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:39:46 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pissarro Refuses the Operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1170855586.45c9d6a20cf07@webmail.ukonline.net> I thought it was Pissarro who refused, thereby dying a martyr to homeoepathy. ---------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 7 09:11:51 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:11:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet References: Message-ID: <002b01c74ac1$ea462e80$c9aa3852@ANNY> Re.: "Perhaps, my eyes have gone bad." I think I am completely blind. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet Monet's serial painting of the Rouen cathedral, the poplars, etc., are my favorites. It's a wonderful experience when you get to see a group of 5 or more together in a gallery rooom. Alex, I'm sure knows, that the impressionist & post-impressionists, in their time, were roundly disparaged as 'barbarous artists'. We see the technique imitated now, and it seems conventional practice. As what weekend painters and yourg art students do derivatively. One of things that endeared me to Monet was that he had a 'studio boat' built. A boat where he could push off from the banks of the river, drift along, doing his paintings, assured he wouldn't be interrupted by neighbors or other artists.. Perhaps, my eyes have gone bad. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Feb 7 10:20:26 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:20:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman Message-ID: <249108F4-5D8F-4A12-97FB-6E1FF1304E1D@ripon.edu> Thank You My body temperature was below normal; it was like 97.5-- It was like I was turning into a radio station, Which was fine, because my radio had stopped working-- The batteries had died, beautifully, with dignity, in their sleep. The morning paper seemed beyond me, but it was below me. A piece of gunk fell out of my eye And landed on an Associated Press photograph. Russian business leaders with faces like water balloons-- Then a story about children hiding in a leaf pile who were hit by a van. Then the photograph of the demonstrator outside the Federal building-- It was impossible to tell if he was shouting or yawning. Thank you, Walt Whitman, for doing whatever it was you did So that we don't have to write like they did before you came along. --Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Wed Feb 7 10:20:52 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:20:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase" Message-ID: <648208b60702070720r5b80b60do428fa9e671239846@mail.gmail.com> Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase In the museum of very modern art the guard shouts "Don't touch that!" then swooshes back into a cardboard cut-out of himself unable to speak. * The gate works only in the writing of it and will not open in real life where people have a compulsion to touch. * A glint occurs only in special circumstances when the observer is of a certain height and carries himself a certain way when the sun peeks out and strikes the pebble just so. * A leaf flies past. But the windows are up. A maple leaf. You are traveling there. But the windows are up. The red leaf is in the passenger seat, traveling south. How quickly you made it real. * We harbor thoughts as if they were boats that know a language of flags. When they leave all we have is their breeze and ragged edges of color. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From tad Wed Feb 7 10:42:07 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:42:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase" References: <648208b60702070720r5b80b60do428fa9e671239846@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c74ace$8654eee0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Neat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] "Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase" > Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase > > > In the museum of very modern art > the guard shouts "Don't touch that!" > then swooshes back into a cardboard > cut-out of himself unable to speak. > > * > > The gate works only in the writing of it > and will not open in real life where > people have a compulsion to touch. > > * > > A glint occurs only in special circumstances > when the observer is of a certain height > and carries himself a certain way when the sun > peeks out and strikes the pebble just so. > > * > > A leaf flies past. But the windows are up. > A maple leaf. You are traveling there. > But the windows are up. The red leaf > is in the passenger seat, traveling south. > > How quickly you made it real. > > * > > We harbor thoughts as if they were boats > that know a language of flags. When they leave > all we have is their breeze and ragged edges of color. > > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 7 13:29:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:29:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] I come back to the geography of it Message-ID: <005201c74ae5$f80dab00$60df3652@ANNY> http://ubu.wfmu.org/sound/dial_a_poem_poets/corrupt/Totally-Corrupt_27_olson.mp3 Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 27 [withheld] I come back to the geography of it, the land falling off to the left where my father shot his scabby golf and the rest of us played baseball in the summer darkness until no flies could be seen and we came home to our various piazzas where the women buzzed To the left the land fell to the city, to the right, it fell to the sea I was so young my first memory is of a tent spread to feed lobsters to Rexall conventioneers, and my father, a man for kicks, came out of the tent roaring with a bread-knife in his teeth to take care of a druggist they'd told him had made a pass at my mother, she laughing, so sure, as round as her face, Hines pink and apple, under one of those frame hats women then This, is no bare incoming of novel abstract form, this is no welter or the forms of those events, this, Greeks, is the stopping of the battle It is the imposing of all those antecedent predecessions, the precessions of me, the generation of those facts which are my words, it is coming from all that I no longer am, yet am, the slow westward motion of more than I am There is no strict personal order for my inheritance. No Greek will be able to discriminate my body. An American is a complex of occasions, themselves a geometry of spatial nature. I have this sense, that I am one with my skin Plus this-plus this: that forever the geography which leans in on me I compel backwards I compel Gloucester to yield, to change Polis is this (from the big The Maximus Poems, Charles Olson, Edited by George F. Butterick) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse Wed Feb 7 15:00:53 2007 From: queenmouse (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:00:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur at 85 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "He's one of few writers I've ever known who has a balanced center of gravity," says fellow New England poet Jay Parini, a resident of Middlebury, Vt. "He speaks with clarity, but also with wit and subtlety. And there's not an ounce of pretense about him, in person or in his writing." I studied with Wilbur back when I was an undergraduate (and I still have the elegant letters he sent me during the summer of my freshman year when I sent him my poems and we had a brief correspondence) and I can't even begin to say how utterly true this is. He was one of the most well-spoken, brilliant, genuine, and down to earth people I have ever known. Yep, nodding my head vigorously here. Suzanne Burns -- "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do not know the way." Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Wed Feb 7 17:36:00 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:36:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Remonet In-Reply-To: <200702071343.l17DhPt5006382@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <332298.16759.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That is funny, Monet always reminds me of Gebr?der Thonet and Cryptonet >>Monet always reminds me of money. >>Hal Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Wed Feb 7 19:19:38 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:19:38 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of California Press Message-ID: With praise like this, who need Wm Logan... Finnegan In a message dated 2/7/2007 2:39:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, enews at ucpress.edu writes: Green and Gray Geoffrey G. O'Brien "O'Brien writes meditative poetry at the highest level. The thinking here is not 'about' anything; rather thinking becomes a modality of being within which the potential of lyric situations unfolds and takes on delightful intensities. These are not poems to interpret but to explore for how the mind attentive to the full resources of lyric traditions stretches the senses and therefore finds itself more truly and more strange."?Charles Altieri Geoffrey G. O'Brien's second collection documents the "remorse of the senses" that attends each moment of experience, the pain and pleasure of not exiting a world in which injustice and . . . For more information, click here: _Green and Gray_ (http://www.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0zOTE3MjImcD0xJnU9MTA2MTUzMDI3JmxpPTEyMDUyODM/index.html) Subjects: Literature; American Literature; Poetry Market: General Interest 978-0-520-25018-5, cloth $50.00 978-0-520-25019-2, paper $19.95 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Feb 7 19:24:19 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:24:19 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of Californi... Message-ID: I get asked for lots of blurbs. I'd rather write a report of my own execution than do one. But, still, I do . . . Someone should put together a book titled "The Collected Blurbs of Richard Howard." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Thu Feb 8 01:17:21 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:17:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of Message-ID: <2044.1170915441@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 8 04:22:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:22:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy B. Lisel Mueller Message-ID: <004f01c74b62$fa5fd090$69ed3652@ANNY> >From the Writer's Almanac: Poem: "Why I Need the Birds" by Lisel Mueller, from Alive Together: New and Selected Poems. ? Louisiana State University Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Why I Need the Birds When I hear them call in the morning, before I am quite awake, my bed is already traveling the daily rainbow, the arc toward evening; and the birds, leading their own discreet lives of hunger and watchfulness, are with me all the way, always a little ahead of me in the long-practiced manner of unobtrusive guides. By the time I arrive at evening, they have just settled down to rest; already invisible, they are turning into the dreamwork of trees; and all of us together - myself and the purple finches, the rusty blackbirds, the ruby cardinals, and the white-throated sparrows with their liquid voices - ride the dark curve of the earth toward daylight, which they announce from their high lookouts before dawn has quite broken for me. Literary and Historical Notes: It's the birthday of the poet Lisel Mueller, (books by this author) born in Hamburg, Germany (1924). She fled with her family from Nazi Germany when she was a teenager, and she spent the rest of her adolescence in Indiana. She learned to love English by memorizing the lyrics to American songs she heard on the radio. She has gone on to write many books of poetry in English, including The Need to Hold Still (1980) and Waving from Shore (1989). Her book Alive Together: New and Selected Poems came out in 1996. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse Thu Feb 8 10:03:36 2007 From: queenmouse (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:03:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of Californi... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/7/07, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > Someone should put together a book titled "The Collected Blurbs of Richard > Howard." Okay. Thanks for making me inhale my coffee this morning. That's priceless and so true. Isn't there a java-driven blurb generator (or review generator) out there somewhere? I know someone wrote an "Artistic Statement generator" once. I think the time has come. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley Thu Feb 8 13:24:24 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:24:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Thank you, Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <200702071700.l17H04t6010957@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702071700.l17H04t6010957@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Thanks David. This is the funniest pome I've read in a long time. Besides Hal's of course. > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:20:26 -0600 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman > > Thank You > > My body temperature was below normal; it was like 97.5-- > It was like I was turning into a radio station, > Which was fine, because my radio had stopped working-- > The batteries had died, beautifully, with dignity, in their sleep. > > The morning paper seemed beyond me, but it was below me. > A piece of gunk fell out of my eye > And landed on an Associated Press photograph. > Russian business leaders with faces like water balloons-- > Then a story about children hiding in a leaf pile who were hit by a > van. > > Then the photograph of the demonstrator outside the Federal building-- > It was impossible to tell if he was shouting or yawning. > > Thank you, Walt Whitman, for doing whatever it was you did > So that we don't have to write like they did before you came along. > > > --Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. > From JforJames Thu Feb 8 14:12:15 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:12:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Whittier recovered and recorded Message-ID: _http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626?keyword=secondary story_ (http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626?keyword=secondarystory) Published: February 08, 2007 12:00 am Rediscovering old verses; Recording artist continues mission to celebrate the poetry of John Greenleaf Whittier By Jennie Rundlett , Correspondent Daily News of Newburyport (page 1 of 2) View as a single page AMESBURY - A burning interest in Quaker poet John Greenleaf Whittier has inspired a recording artist who grew up in Dover, N.H., to highlight the verses he believes many people have lost sight of over the years. And with 2007 marking Whittier's 200th birthday, Michael Maglaras, founder of 217 Records, feels it is the perfect time to help people rediscover what he describes as Whittier's illuminating poetry. Whittier was born in Haverhill and spent most of his later life in Amesbury, writing poetry about New England subjects and situations. He died in 1892, yet Maglaras said his name continues to live on, especially in the New England area. "He is one of the most important people in America," said Maglaras, who has set out to record Whittier's poetry in a three-part series of CDs. "But not a whole lot of people read his work and we need to revisit that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Feb 8 14:18:14 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:18:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I heard Matt Cook give a reading night before last: funniest reading I've been to in, well, maybe forever. He's a slammer who also works pretty well on the page, I'd say. *Eavesdrop Soup* is his latest, and apparently there's a new one forthcoming shortly, also from Manic D Press (which may be the funniest press name, come to think of it). On 2/8/07 12:24 PM, "Crisman Cooley" wrote: > Thanks David. This is the funniest pome I've read in a long time. > Besides Hal's of course. > >> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:20:26 -0600 >> From: David Graham >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman >> >> Thank You >> >> My body temperature was below normal; it was like 97.5-- >> It was like I was turning into a radio station, >> Which was fine, because my radio had stopped working-- >> The batteries had died, beautifully, with dignity, in their sleep. >> >> The morning paper seemed beyond me, but it was below me. >> A piece of gunk fell out of my eye >> And landed on an Associated Press photograph. >> Russian business leaders with faces like water balloons-- >> Then a story about children hiding in a leaf pile who were hit by a >> van. >> >> Then the photograph of the demonstrator outside the Federal building-- >> It was impossible to tell if he was shouting or yawning. >> >> Thank you, Walt Whitman, for doing whatever it was you did >> So that we don't have to write like they did before you came along. >> >> >> --Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From JforJames Thu Feb 8 14:42:42 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:42:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman Message-ID: I have a friend who has an early Leaves of Grass edition and inscribed on the flyleaf in Whitman's hand is this quote: "We critique a palace or a cathedral, but what is the good of critiquing a forest?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine Thu Feb 8 14:38:31 2007 From: cvoisine (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:38:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whittier recovered and recorded In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1170963511.45cb7c3787ba5@webmail.nmsu.edu> Kenneth Koch on Whittier (and others...) You Were Wearing You were wearing your Edgar Allan Poe printed cotton blouse. In each divided up square of the blouse was a picture of Edgar Allan Poe. You hair was blonde and you were cute. You asked me, ?Do most boys think that most girls are bad?? I smelled the mould of your seaside resort hotel bedroom on your hair held in place by a John Greenleaf Whittier clip. ?No,? I said, ?it?s girls who think boys are bad.? Then we read Snowbound together and ran around in an attic, so that a little of the blue enamel was scraped off my George Washington, Father of our Country, shoes. Mother was walking in the living room, her Strauss Waltzes comb in her hair. We waited for a time and then joined her, only to be served tea in cups painted with pictures of Herman Melville. As well as with illustrations from his book Moby Dick and from his novella, Benito Cereno. Father came in wearing his Dick Tracy necktie: ?How about a drink, everyone?? I said, ?Let?s go outside a while.? Then we went onto the porch and sat on the Abraham Lincoln swing. You sat on the eyes, mouth, and beard part, and I sat on the knees. In the yard across the street we saw a snowman holding a garbage can lid smashed into a likeness of the mad English king, George the Third. Quoting JforJames at aol.com: > _http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626?keyword=secondary > story_ > (http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626? keyword=secondarystory) > > Published: February 08, 2007 12:00 am > > Rediscovering old verses; Recording artist continues mission to celebrate > the poetry of John Greenleaf Whittier > > By Jennie Rundlett , Correspondent > Daily News of Newburyport > > > (page 1 of 2) > View as a single page > > AMESBURY - A burning interest in Quaker poet John Greenleaf Whittier has > inspired a recording artist who grew up in Dover, N.H., to highlight the > verses > he believes many people have lost sight of over the years. > > And with 2007 marking Whittier's 200th birthday, Michael Maglaras, founder > > of 217 Records, feels it is the perfect time to help people rediscover what > he > describes as Whittier's illuminating poetry. > > Whittier was born in Haverhill and spent most of his later life in Amesbury, > > writing poetry about New England subjects and situations. He died in 1892, > > yet Maglaras said his name continues to live on, especially in the New > England > area. > > "He is one of the most important people in America," said Maglaras, who has > > set out to record Whittier's poetry in a three-part series of CDs. "But not a > > whole lot of people read his work and we need to revisit that." > > > From grahamd Thu Feb 8 14:46:34 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:46:34 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: He has a book signed by Whitman himself ???? Wow. Is it under lock & key? If not, please let me know his address. . .. I have a book signed by Stanley Kunitz, which is nice, but somehow it's not the same. -------------- On 2/8/07 1:42 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > I have a friend who has an early Leaves of Grass edition and > inscribed on the flyleaf in Whitman's hand is this quote: > > "We critique a palace or a cathedral, but what is the good of critiquing a > forest?" > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rebuketheworld Thu Feb 8 15:44:47 2007 From: Rebuketheworld (Rebuketheworld at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:44:47 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Sanity by Raven Smith Message-ID: I wanted to offer this to the loop. I wrote this last night, a rough first draft but having seen so many poems and learning along the way, I am playing around with line breaks. I just wanted some feedback from the loop. ~Raven Sanity by Raven Smith Dispensable sanity, how dare you cry again. That bulldozer took you from me. Insurmountable loss engaging memories flogging me with their unconscionable words, spoken. One after the other, one after the other this black hole undertones the swallowing surrogate in my mind. Give me my arm so I can touch it. Give me my leg so I can feel it. Why interrupt me fool? You, the plotters of distortion?s twirling untroubled hair, tasting the delights of victims where bellies nourish empty, human garbage they say. Tongues licking their facade where flakes of limp souls have fallen, sanity tried. My tender scraps, how could I dismiss you? Fear, you the precision of my repressed hope languishes still but where has the other been? Engaging sanity, my dear. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer Thu Feb 8 20:28:23 2007 From: mheffer (Michael Heffernan) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:28:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. Michael Heffernan From goonyfantastic Thu Feb 8 20:31:55 2007 From: goonyfantastic (Jared Galbraith) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:31:55 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Old New Poem Message-ID: <213da25a0702081731q9fc3eeam515bedf25e8c462@mail.gmail.com> Let me tell you a story to comfort you. Once there was you and you were big and beautiful and blue-skinned and everyday you ran and sat and slept in your day-dreams (you never slept then). You flew forever and far and saw a great many things and grew bigger and beautifuller and bluer skinned. Then someone said "sing" and you sang every color into the universe and all flashing and shining. You sand forever and you sang in your day-dreams. And once when you sang you realized there must be me. And there was, and I listened and day-dreamed. I gave you everything. I had it in my pocket. That made you more big and beautiful and blue-skinned than when you sang the colors. And you never ended. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Feb 8 20:40:03 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:40:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <8B50BB36-E068-4C08-91AD-0FE957E2D2A0@ripon.edu> I love "The Black Cottage." It should be more frequently anthologized. But in fact, as you suggest, there are riches and riches to be discovered, especially in *North of Boston*. Another poem you hardly ever see mentioned is "The Housekeeper"; it's one of the strangest things Frost ever wrote, which is saying something. Readers who think of RF as a complacent pastoralist or cracker-barrel sentimentalist just haven't looked closely at things like "The Housekeeper," "A Servant to Servants," "Home Burial" and the rest. On Feb 8, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Michael Heffernan wrote: > I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of > Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread > masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black > Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? > and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had > nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. > > Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do > it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 Thu Feb 8 21:13:17 2007 From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:13:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <001701c74bef$dd0863d0$8a70a918@yourae066c3a9b> And please add "Design", with all its challenges. Gerald Schwartz >I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, >all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of >dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to >Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost >was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the >20th century. > > Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out > loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 Thu Feb 8 21:33:35 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:33:35 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: In a message dated 2/8/2007 7:40:13 PM Central Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > But in fact, as you suggest, there are riches and riches to be discovered, > especially in *North of Boston*. Another poem you hardly ever see mentioned > is "The Housekeeper"; it's one of the strangest things Frost ever wrote, which > is saying something. > "A Hundred Collars" is pretty weird too. I think "A Servant to Servants" ("I 'm not nuts!"--not a direct quote, of course, just a summary) is one of the great ones but unfortunately too long to be anthologized frequently. And what's the one about the guy who throws the Indian down into the well-pit of a grist mill? (Pardon me--my complete poems is at school.) Whatever this guy is, he ain't boring--at least early on. And "The Pauper Witch of Grafton," now that we're talking about it, is about as weird as they get! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Thu Feb 8 22:45:00 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:45:00 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: In a message dated 2/8/2007 8:28:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mheffer at uark.edu writes: I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. Michael Heffernan What he said.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Fri Feb 9 00:06:43 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:06:43 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> i took your challenge. frost is boring. Michael Heffernan wrote: > I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. > > Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From suelin7184 Fri Feb 9 06:19:00 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 05:19:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Old New Poem References: <213da25a0702081731q9fc3eeam515bedf25e8c462@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401c74c3c$1979a620$0201a8c0@LindaSue> sounds like Krishna ----- Original Message ----- From: Jared Galbraith To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 7:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Old New Poem Let me tell you a story to comfort you. Once there was you and you were big and beautiful and blue-skinned and everyday you ran and sat and slept in your day-dreams (you never slept then). You flew forever and far and saw a great many things and grew bigger and beautifuller and bluer skinned. Then someone said "sing" and you sang every color into the universe and all flashing and shining. You sand forever and you sang in your day-dreams. And once when you sang you realized there must be me. And there was, and I listened and day-dreamed. I gave you everything. I had it in my pocket. That made you more big and beautiful and blue-skinned than when you sang the colors. And you never ended. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Feb 9 06:20:02 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:20:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> Message-ID: Frost - the American Wordsworth. I think the post-revolutionary Wordsworth has a lot in common with Frost: they both seem to recognise the challenges of the 19th and 20th century, then look away. Frost even more so than Wordsworth. Particularly in "Design": it's "challenges" are as moth-eaten as Bishop Paley's bones. So, besides being back-wards looking and ignoring most of the changes of the 19th and 20th century, I'm not sure what Frost has to add to the world. I don't think it's excitement, though. Stability and nostalgia seem to be his stock-in-trade, his popularity is not so surprising when one considers the rampant and on-going changes of the last 200 years. Roger On 2/9/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > i took your challenge. frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan wrote: > > I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost's North of Boston, all the way past the "Greatest Hits" to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including "The Black Cottage," "A Servant to Servants," and "The Generations of Men," and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. > > > > Has anyone read "The Bonfire" lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > > > Michael Heffernan > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From jforjames Fri Feb 9 10:29:33 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:29:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> Message-ID: <8C91A763BE2B10B-1D40-96A5@mblk-r38.sysops.aol.com> Roger, I see a lot more existentialist angst in Frost than you do. Something that doesn't square well with 'nostalgia'...which is wide-eyed and naive. Frost wasn't the Norman Rockwell of American poetry. Some of the characters he sketched were a dying breed of Yankee farm people. Most weren't living an idyllic Lake District existence. It was a lot more hardscrabble and hardheaded than that. The mills of Lowell and Lawrence and Manchester (NH) had already changed New England forever and the rural folk that Frost portrayed knew modern world was like a great threshing machine right over the next hill, and when it came over that rise, as they knew it would (they weren't wishing it away or averting their gaze, dreaming of better days), everything was going to come down under its whirling blades. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: rog3r.day at gmail.com Sent: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Frost - the American Wordsworth. I think the post-revolutionary Wordsworth has a lot in common with Frost: they both seem to recognise the challenges of the 19th and 20th century, then look away. Frost even more so than Wordsworth. Particularly in "Design": it's "challenges" are as moth-eaten as Bishop Paley's bones. So, besides being back-wards looking and ignoring most of the changes of the 19th and 20th century, I'm not sure what Frost has to add to the world. I don't think it's excitement, though. Stability and nostalgia seem to be his stock-in-trade, his popularity is not so surprising when one considers the rampant and on-going changes of the last 200 years. Roger ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 9 10:40:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:40:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <001201c74c60$aa056480$4ca93252@ANNY> Poem: "In the Middle of the Road" by Elizabeth Bishop, from The Complete Poems: 1927-1979. ? The Noonday Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) In the Middle of the Road In the middle of the road there was a stone there was a stone in the middle of the road there was a stone in the middle of the road there was a stone. Never should I forget this event in the life of my fatigued retinas. Never should I forget that in the middle of the road there was a stone there was a stone in the middle of the road in the middle of the road there was a stone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Feb 9 10:48:54 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:48:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <8C91A763BE2B10B-1D40-96A5@mblk-r38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: One issue lurking here is that Frost's work did change notably as he got older. Most readers don't think he ever topped the early North of Boston, and as he got older his sententious side came out more and more. The last couple books are mostly dross. Of course, "early" is relative in this case, since RF was about 40 when he first broke into print, and it's probably unrealistic to expect pathbreaking, forward-looking work from very many poets in their 60s and beyond. For me Frost is also two poets--the amazing sonneteer & lyricist who could craft traditional lyrics as tight and memorable as anyone in his century; and the equally amazing but very different blank verse narrative poet, whose "poems of people" are really unsurpassed for their psychological penetration and strangeness. Though his characters are rural, such poems are anything but pastoral, as JimF suggests. As far as Frost being a nostalgist and one who ignores 19th & 20th century challenges, well, I just don't see it, unless one believes that such challenges can't be faced in iambics. . . . ----------------- On 2/9/07 9:29 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > Roger, > I see a lot more existentialist angst in Frost than you do. > Something that doesn't square well with 'nostalgia'...which > is wide-eyed and naive. Frost wasn't the Norman Rockwell of > American poetry. > > Some of the characters he sketched were a dying breed of > Yankee farm people. Most weren't living an idyllic Lake District > existence. It was a lot more hardscrabble and hardheaded than that. > The mills of Lowell and Lawrence and Manchester (NH) had already > changed New England forever and the rural folk that Frost portrayed > knew modern world was like a great threshing machine right over the next > hill, and when it came over that rise, as they knew it would (they > weren't wishing it away or averting their gaze, dreaming of better > days), everything was going to come down under its whirling blades. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: rog3r.day at gmail.com > Sent: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 6:20 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge > > Frost - the American Wordsworth. > > I think the post-revolutionary Wordsworth has a lot in common with > Frost: they both seem to recognise the challenges of the 19th and 20th > century, then look away. Frost even more so than Wordsworth. > Particularly in "Design": it's "challenges" are as moth-eaten as > Bishop Paley's bones. > > So, besides being back-wards looking and ignoring most of the changes > of the 19th and 20th century, I'm not sure what Frost has to add to > the world. I don't think it's excitement, though. Stability and > nostalgia seem to be his stock-in-trade, his popularity is not so > surprising when one considers the rampant and on-going changes of the > last 200 years. > > Roger > > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Feb 9 11:47:09 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:47:09 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost's "The Impulse" Message-ID: The final section of Frost's poem "The Hill Wife"" THE IMPULSE It was too lonely for her there, And too wild, And since there were but two of them, And no child, And work was little in the house, She was free, And followed where he furrowed field, Or felled tree. She rested on a log and tossed The fresh chips, With a song only to herself On her lips. And once she went to break a bough Of black alder. She strayed so far she scarcely heard When he called her? And didn?t answer?didn?t speak? Or return. She stood, and then she ran and hid In the fern. He never found her, though he looked Everywhere, And he asked at her mother?s house Was she there. Sudden and swift and light as that The ties gave, And he learned of finalities Besides the grave. --Robert Frost ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From grahamd Fri Feb 9 11:52:24 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:52:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost--The Vanishing Red Message-ID: The Vanishing Red HE is said to have been the last Red Man In Acton. And the Miller is said to have laughed? If you like to call such a sound a laugh. But he gave no one else a laugher?s license. For he turned suddenly grave as if to say, ?Whose business,?if I take it on myself, Whose business?but why talk round the barn?? When it?s just that I hold with getting a thing done with.? You can?t get back and see it as he saw it. It?s too long a story to go into now. You?d have to have been there and lived it. Then you wouldn?t have looked on it as just a matter Of who began it between the two races. Some guttural exclamation of surprise The Red Man gave in poking about the mill Over the great big thumping shuffling mill-stone Disgusted the Miller physically as coming >From one who had no right to be heard from. ?Come, John,? he said, ?you want to see the wheel pit?? He took him down below a cramping rafter, And showed him, through a manhole in the floor, The water in desperate straits like frantic fish, Salmon and sturgeon, lashing with their tails. Then he shut down the trap door with a ring in it That jangled even above the general noise, And came up stairs alone?and gave that laugh, And said something to a man with a meal-sack That the man with the meal-sack didn?t catch?then. Oh, yes, he showed John the wheel pit all right. --Robert Frost. Mountain Interval. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From ccooley Fri Feb 9 23:40:44 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 22:40:44 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Transtr=F6mer_?= In-Reply-To: References: <200612151452.kBFEqK8X027491@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Okay, I'm playing the game. The title, I notice, is Breathing Room (or Space) July. From this I gather that the poem takes place in July and that it has something to do with space or breathing or room to breathe... We shall see. (I'm playing the game, coincidentally, after 3 glasses of organic Merlot from Hectore at La Carpa-- a wine that ages very slowly even after it is opened and comes in a 4-liter bottle-- I believe wine is no longer the drink of poets... but I don't know what is. Any faults in the interpretation I lay upon Dionysius. I'd prefer to know what they were doing in the Eleusinian mystery cults, which seems much more relevant to me. And if I'd just done THAT, the interpretation would probably be flawless.) So "lying on his back" leaning, loafing [foul! -- rule 4 broken], breathing we assume, with room to breathe. Then the very odd: "he is also up there." But that's not difficult. He is in two places at once. Likely, he's "under tall trees" and simply looking up-- but looking up with such intensity that he's also up there. Or imagining himself up there. Or having burst the boundaries of his own skin... further evidence for this in: "He rills into thousands of twigs and branches..." Rills of course as a verb is weird. [Breaking rule 4 again: look in the Oxford American (the OED having died inside of my dead IBM laptop) for rill: "verb intrans. (of water) flow in or as in a rill." Okay. So he's flying or flowing up into the branches, and the flowing is splitting off getting smaller and smaller-- very well. "...is swayed back and forth..." so these rivulets are moving up in the air-- no problem. "As if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion" ... huh? Is that him flung up from the ground into the air? Yeah probably. "Slow" because that's how trees move in wind. I'm breaking rule 4 to infer wind from tree motion. But perhaps the motion is from a man climbing up there with a chainsaw... no, no evidence for that! "Standing by the jetties..." okay, suddenly by the water. Trees gone and flowed right down into the sea. Eyes squinting, narrowing or screwed up. Prefer MS's squinting. "Narrowing" is confusion of parallax with a change of distance between the eyes-- completely fallacious. And screwed up-- well, it's just not something someone is in polite society. "The docks ages sooner than men." An artifact of the poor web master typing furiously late at night to get the Transtromer translations up on the web before she eats at midnight, sleeps at 12:20am-- despite the latte at 10:30. Surely neither Transtorm or Ms. Swenson would (do or) say such a thing. Fulton and Bly have avoided the grammatical error, but the sheer effort reminds me of a dance between Gargantua and Pantagruel-- but that may be the wine. Men and docks both turn silver with age-- thereupon turns the metaphor. No? And wood turns silver in less than 50 years. A statement of fact, by way of metaphor. "Stones in their bellies" or "stomachs" or "boulders in their guts." Bly is consistently funniest. I think this is the pebbles stuck between the boards of the piers... what else? Which would preclude "boulders" unless the space between planks is larger than a man's waist, so that boulders would fit in. In that case, even Bly would fall through. "...blinding light rips ... through" or "beats right in" or "drives in" [in a yacht, perhaps? ...no]. "In" what? Well, remember, the guy is squinting. So maybe it rips into his eyes. Or into the pier. But anyway "across the waters..." "Sailing all day in an open boat" ... no problem here! "over the glittering bights". I remember bight meaning the gravitational curve in a rope or the inertial curve in a wave as it moves up sand. So glittering bights would seem to be waves out in the water... though not quite, therefore back to the dictionary. "A curve or recess in a coastline, river, or other..." but if it's a curve, how come Fulton translates the same thing as "straits"? Straits may not be straight but they're narrow and not necessarily curved. Bly calls 'em bays. So be it. Bright waterways. "he will fall fast asleep at last inside a blue lamp" Finally, we're reintroduced to the "he". But this he is in a boat, sleeping. The first was sleeping under trees, the second standing on a pier, the third now is lying in a boat. And we presume they all have "breathing room". Each is doing essentially nothing. The hard work of the poet. "a blue lamp" or "his blue lamp" -- the sky? Bright sun does light the sky's mantle like heat lights the coleman lantern mantle. "...islands... creep" or "crawl" like -- what is drawn to the lamp? "moths". Very well. "over the glass", "across the glass", "over the globe" -- water is glass, covers the globe (at least in the sea)... and is ripped by light, made to look shiny, glass. Okay, it is one guy or three? It could be 3 poses of one guy during July. Or a particular day and 3 different approaches to breathing. Just like the guy can lie on the ground and be in the tree-- it can be one guy in 3 places all at once, or 3 guys at the same time, brought into proximity only in the poet's imagination, or one guy at three different times. The poem gives permission to take all three perspectives. On Dec 15, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Let's see if we can make this an interesting discussion. Here are > the rules: 1. You must think, really think before you say > something; 2. As you read these 3 versions of a Transtr?mer poem, > you must actually pay attention to your own esthetic reactions; 3. > You must report what is your esthetic reaction to a particular > word, phrase or image; 4. You must not comment on what is NOT in > the poem, only what is in it; 5. You can only voice your own > esthetic reaction, and are strictly disallowed from making > political comments or any other comments other than A. your own > esthetic experience, or B. comments about your own esthetic > experience. 6. You are allowed to comment on the variation between > translations, knowing, but not caring, that these are not about > Transtr?mer, but are about the text actually in the new-po post > (the Object of Discussion); 7. these translations are the only > object of discussion; 8. The question "What's this guy do that's > special?" must be changed subtly to "What is my esthetic reaction > to what these translators say this guy does?" 9. In the process of > following the rules, your original question will be answered, but > not in a way to prove anything, since esthetic discussions never > prove anything. Proving something would be breaking rules #2,3,4, > and 5. Ready? > > Here are the texts: [note that the May Swenson translation appears > to have an error in line 6] > > Breathing Room: July > > Lying on his back under tall trees > he is also up there. He rills into thousands of twigs and branches, > is swayed back and forth, > as if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion. > > Standing down by the jetties he squints across the waters. > The docks ages sooner than men. > Made of splintered silver gray planks, and with stones in their > bellies. > The blinding light rips its way straight through. > > Sailing all day in an open boat > over the glittering bights, > he will fall asleep at last inside a blue lamp > while islands like great nocturnal moths creep over the glass. > > Translation by May Swenson > > Breathing Space July > > The man lying on his back under the high trees > is up there too. He rills out in thousandfold twigs, > sways to and fro, > sits in an ejector seat that releases in slow motion. > > The man down by the jetties narrows his eyes at the water. > The jetties grow old more quickly than people. > They have silver grey timber and stones in their stomachs. > The blinding light beats right in. > > The man traveling all day in an open boat > over the glittering straits > > Will sleep at last inside a blue lamp > while the islands creep like large moths across the glass. > > Translation by Robert Fulton > > Breathing Space July > > The man who lies on his back under huge trees > is also up in them. He branches out into thousands of tiny branches. > He sways back and forth, > he sits in a catapult chair that hurtles forward in slow motion. > > The man who stands down at the dock screws up his eyes against the > water. > Docks get older faster than men. > They have silver-gray posts and boulders in their gut. > The dazzling light drives straight in. > > The man who spends the whole day in an open boat > moving over the luminous bays > will fall asleep at last inside the shade of his blue lamp > as the islands crawl like huge moths over the globe. > > Translation by Robert Bly > > >> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:50:49 -0500 >> From: "Bob Grumman" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Transtromer > > >>> It doesn't matter whether you've read a whole book. What matters >>> (if you >>> are interested in educating yourself and others about your esthetic >>> predilections) is that you make specific comments about a >>> specific poem. >> >> How about a specific question such as the one implied by my post, >> what's >> this guy do that's special? >> >> --Bob G. > From JforJames Sat Feb 10 17:24:20 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:24:20 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Poetry Project, Call for Poems Message-ID: Tupelo Press Poetry Project, Call for Poems The previous newsletter's email link has been fixed, and is now working brilliantly. Starting in March, Tupelo Press will host and publish an online poetry site, the Tupelo Press Poetry Project. Each month, we will offer four possible titles. All are invited to submit no more than one poem (per month), having any one of the four suggested titles (only). We will then select our 20-30 favorite responses and publish them on the Poetry Project site, which will have a link on our _homepage_ (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=xf6cp7bab.0.rzocnxbab.xzxilxbab.139&ts=S0224&p=https://www.tupelo press.org) . There are no restrictions on form, style, or anything else, except that your poem should be no longer than 50 lines, and in English. We want to see all strategies, from strictly formal to wildly experimental, and all the in-betweens. The deadline for submitting your poem to the inaugural (March) issue of the Tupelo Press Poetry Project is February 21st. For March, here are your four possible titles: * We Leave the Beaches for the Tourists, Mostly * You Were Born to be Mine, See, Why Even Fight It * Exposition of the Contents of a Cab * Snowman Please: * Submit by email attachment (Word) only. * No hard copy will be read. * Please include a short bio (three lines). * There is no fee. Send your submission to: Tupelo Press Poetry Project _Poetryproject at tupelopress.org_ (mailto:poetryproject at tupelopress.org) Please do not reply to this address, and please if at all possible, don?t send questions. You have all the information you need here, and we just do not have the staff to respond to questions. Thanks so much. Enjoy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 10 18:23:07 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:23:07 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] EOAGH, ISSUE #3: QUEERING LANGUAGE , for kari edwards (1954-2006) Message-ID: _http://chax.org/eoagh/issue3/issuethree.html_ (http://chax.org/eoagh/issue3/issuethree.html) EOAGH, ISSUE #3: QUEERING LANGUAGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 10 18:50:27 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:50:27 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Message-ID: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 10 18:58:18 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:58:18 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Message-ID: Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 03:57:03 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:57:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: Message-ID: <002101c74dba$99729e70$26a33852@ANNY> Lovely! SIX YEARS OLD, that is incredible. A Happiest Birthday to All to the New Poetry List and to James Finnegan, the best of them all! cheers, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 06:15:15 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:15:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Susan Webster Schultz Message-ID: <003d01c74dcd$e7f53630$26a33852@ANNY> Dear friends--we at Tinfish Press are proud to announce publication of the following (which we spent hours today sewing and stamping): L A N G U A G E _ A S _ R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y by Leonard Schwartz . 2006 . $12 Design by Lian Litvin This hand-sewn chapbook contains three parts: 1) in which the Israel poet Aharon Shabtai offers witness. 2) in which a publishing vision emerges from the rich sources mingling in Jerusalem. 3) a verse essay on poetic form in America by Leonard Schwartz that argues responsibility is the ability to respond. Language as Responsibility is something of a departure for Tinfish Press, as its context is the Middle East, not the Pacific. But its author, who now lives in Washington State, argues forcefully for a poetics of publishing that crosses boundaries of language and difference (in this instance Arabic and Hebrew, Palestine and Israel). Such crossings fit Tinfish's philosophy, hence this beautiful chapbook. See http://tinfishpress.com/chapbooks.html for more details and to order copies. Tinfish books are also available through Small Press Distrubution, http://spdbooks.org Aloha, Susan Susan M. Schultz Tinfish Press -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 06:16:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:16:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from today's the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <004401c74dce$06698990$26a33852@ANNY> Poem: "The Psychiatrist Says She's Severely Demented" by Bobbi Lurie, from Letter from the Lawn: Poems by Bobbi Lurie. ? CustomWords. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) The Psychiatrist Says She's Severely Demented But she's my mother. She lies in her bed, Hi Sweetie, she says. Hi Mom. Do you know my name? I can't wait for her answer, I'm Bobbi. Oh, so you found me again, she says. Her face and hair have the same gray sheen Like a black and white drawing smudged on the edges. The bedspread is hot pink, lime green. Her eyes, Such a distant blue, indifferent as the sky. I put my hand On her forehead. It is soft, and she resembles my real mother Who I have not spoken to in so many years. I want to talk to her as her eyes close. She is mumbling something, laughing to herself, All the sadness she ever had has fled. And when she opens her eyes again, she stares through me And her eyes well up with tears. And I stand there lost in her incoherence, Which feels almost exactly like love. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 11 06:40:54 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 06:40:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: c88.a2e3a64.32ffb443@aol.com Message-ID: <003701c74dd1$7e74b5b0$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) Aut-Oh, if it includes me, I'm not doing my job! But thanks for the mention, James--and for running the group so effectively. And now for another six years of fun and anguish all leading to enlightenment! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 08:30:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:30:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 6 Years Old References: c88.a2e3a64.32ffb443@aol.com <003701c74dd1$7e74b5b0$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007301c74de0$c2a3b470$26a33852@ANNY> I am taking the liberty of quoting without permission a passage from a private conversation I recently had with Richard Dillon: I respect Finnegan. ... He is very much his own person, and a very erudite and talented poet. This to say that I think we have been caught by the charismatic personality of the ListOwner, thus great and best wishes, Anny From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:40 PM The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) Aut-Oh, if it includes me, I'm not doing my job! But thanks for the mention, James--and for running the group so effectively. And now for another six years of fun and anguish all leading to enlightenment! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 11 08:41:13 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:41:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: <002101c74dba$99729e70$26a33852@ANNY> Message-ID: <008801c74de2$4bf95e90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Jim, you done it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:57 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Lovely! SIX YEARS OLD, that is incredible. A Happiest Birthday to All to the New Poetry List and to James Finnegan, the best of them all! cheers, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 09:26:47 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:26:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old In-Reply-To: <008801c74de2$4bf95e90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <002101c74dba$99729e70$26a33852@ANNY> <008801c74de2$4bf95e90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702110626m37668a55r5e601438bfcf0834@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Jim, for providing this forum. Jeff Newberry On 2/11/07, TheOldMole wrote: > > ? Jim, you done it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:57 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old > > > Lovely! SIX YEARS OLD, that is incredible. > A Happiest Birthday to All > to the New Poetry List > and to James Finnegan, the best of them all! > > cheers, Anny > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:58 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old > > > Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... > > In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > JforJames at aol.com writes: > > The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really > appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: > David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going > for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. > > I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good > way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people > come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always > great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... > sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for > that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated > background with a remark. > > Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested > in subscribing....it's free, we like free: > -- > To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related > to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, > essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your > commentary. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 12:00:53 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:00:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years Message-ID: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all morning, and I started thinking of all the poems that use years as titles: Philip Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' "Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, 1939": these are just a few off the top of my head. I'm certain that I'm missing some obvious ones. I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work here. Are there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or somesuch? I don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY year in the 20th century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there are. Bob, are there any visual poems with years as titles? How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 11 12:01:01 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:01:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fenton Reviewed in the Times Message-ID: <004d01c74dfe$356a9d80$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> The English poet James Fenton has survived the specter of his own immense promise. Every possible temptation, disguised as encouragement, has been thrown in his path: the burdensome epithet ("heir to Auden" or "major British poet of his generation"), the sexy hype of a new coterie (the so-called "Martian" school), and even a turn on the throne, as the Oxford professor of poetry. In spite of the hoo-ha, Fenton remains an extraordinary poet with something original to disclose. The publication of his "Selected Poems" gives American readers an excuse to lay encomiums aside and discover Fenton for themselves. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/books/review/Metcalf.t.html?ref=books Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 11 12:05:41 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:05:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01c74dfe$dc72ee20$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> First thing that comes my lowbrow mind is the BeeGees' "New York Mining Disaster 1941," which probably says something about me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all morning, and I started thinking of all the poems that use years as titles: Philip Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' "Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, 1939": these are just a few off the top of my head. I'm certain that I'm missing some obvious ones. I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work here. Are there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or somesuch? I don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY year in the 20th century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there are. Bob, are there any visual poems with years as titles? How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:10:58 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:10:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Cavafy wrote at least one (I think more) poems with the title "Days of xxxx," employing years. And a number of later poets have picked up on that, and written their own "Days of..." poems. Now I need to probe my muddled mind to see if I can think of any actual examples! James Merrill has one, I think. . . . On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all > morning, and I started thinking of all the poems that use years as > titles: Philip Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef > Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' "Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, > 1939": these are just a few off the top of my head. I'm certain > that I'm missing some obvious ones. > > I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work > here. Are there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or > somesuch? I don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY > year in the 20th century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there > are. Bob, are there any visual poems with years as titles? > > How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:16:00 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:16:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Days of 1999 One unexceptional bright afternoon in August, coming from the rose garden secreted behind the rue Villehardouin, I thought, fleet, furtive, If I lived alone I could stay here and pushed the thought away as firmly and unlikely as Might rain later because I wanted just to choose and I had chosen, more than cobblestones and arbors, more than the benediction of new loaves' scent blown from the bakery, the benediction of the late white rose, more than the blank page of the cloudless sky, to honor choice, reflecting on it daily but even as the thought diminished on a wave of warm bread and the holiday banter of children with no homework to do a choice I never made was made for me in another mind, another country I thought I had some claim to, which I knew not at all, as that warm wave let me drift with no anticipating harbor left. Spring showers wash the hidden rose garden; an evening's bread is rising in an oven: the afternoon's word resonates alone as a sky, mother-and-fatherless in its gray and quotidian distress blurts the repeated questions of the rain. Marilyn Hacker Ploughshares Volume 28, Number 1 Spring 2002 On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:10 AM, David Graham wrote: > Cavafy wrote at least one (I think more) poems with the title "Days > of xxxx," employing years. And a number of later poets have picked > up on that, and written their own "Days of..." poems. > > Now I need to probe my muddled mind to see if I can think of any > actual examples! James Merrill has one, I think. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:19:39 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:19:39 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Kizer In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <037BC4C9-3826-4E46-8F04-9AC4222399CD@ripon.edu> Days of 1986 He was believed by his peers to be an important poet, But his erotic obsessions, condemned and strictly forbidden, Compromised his standing, and led to his ruin. The objects of his attention grew younger and younger. Over sixty, and a father many times over, He tried to corrupt the sons of his dearest friends; He pressed on them drink and drugs, And of course he was caught and publicly shamed. Was his death a suicide? No one is sure. But that's not the whole story; it's too sordid to tell. Besides, the memory of his poems deserves better. Though we were unable to look at them for a time, His poems survive his death. There he appears as his finest self: Attractive, scholarly, dedicated to love. At last we can read him again, putting aside The brute facts of his outer life, And rejoice at the inner voice, so lofty and pure. --Carolyn Kizer ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:22:33 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:22:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Stern In-Reply-To: <037BC4C9-3826-4E46-8F04-9AC4222399CD@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> <037BC4C9-3826-4E46-8F04-9AC4222399CD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <57120FAE-2208-405C-B19B-91E15A93039B@ripon.edu> Days of 1978 This is the only thing that clarifies my life, this beautiful old living room with the pink walls and the mohair sofa. I walk out every night singing a little song from Gus Williams or W.C. Handy. I throw my yellow scarf around my neck and pull my cap down over my eyes. Even here I am dressed up, walking through the light flakes and the ice puddles. --Tonight I will think about Cavafy and the way he wept on his satin pillow, remembering the days of 1903. I will compare my life to his: the sorrows of Alexandria, the lights on the river; the dead kings returning to Syria, the soap in my bath. --Later I will lie on my own pillow with the window open and the blinds up, weeping a little myself at the thick blankets and the smoking candles and the stack of books, a new sweetness and clarity beginning to monopolize my own memory. -- Gerald Stern. *This Time: New and Selected Poems* (W.W. Norton). ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Sun Feb 11 12:39:54 2007 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:39:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.co m> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20070211113633.066ed110@mail.ilstu.edu> Hardy has a few. My favorite is "Christmas: 1924," a pungent four-liner: 'Peace upon earth!' was said. We sing it, And pay a million priests to bring it. After two thousand years of mass We've got as far as poison-gas. 1924 Bill Morgan At 11:00 AM 2/11/2007, you wrote: >I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all morning, and >I started thinking of all the poems that use years as titles: Philip >Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' >"Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, 1939": these are just a few off the >top of my head. I'm certain that I'm missing some obvious ones. > >I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work here. Are >there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or somesuch? I >don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY year in the 20th >century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there are. Bob, are there any >visual poems with years as titles? > >How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. > >Best, > >Jeff Newberry > >-- >"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." >?William Faulkner, Light in August > > >http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:46:58 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:46:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Frost In-Reply-To: <6.0.2.0.2.20070211113633.066ed110@mail.ilstu.edu> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> <6.0.2.0.2.20070211113633.066ed110@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: And here's Frost's epigram. Similar subject. Oh, I forgot: Frost's a pastoralist; he couldn't have written a Hiroshima poem, could he? . . . U.S. 1946. King's X Having invented a new Holocaust, And been the first with it to win a war, How they make haste to cry with fingers crossed, King's X--no fairs to use it any more! --Robert Frost. Steeple Bush. On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Bill Morgan wrote: > Hardy has a few. My favorite is "Christmas: 1924," a pungent four- > liner: > > 'Peace upon earth!' was said. We sing it, > And pay a million priests to bring it. > After two thousand years of mass > We've got as far as poison-gas. > > 1924 > > > Bill Morgan ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 11 12:49:47 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:49:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: 731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <01a001c74e05$0756cac0$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> By coincidence, Jeff, less than a week ago I posted one of my own visual poems with a year in its title at my blog. You can see it here: http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/blog01100.html. As for poems by other visual poets with years in their titles, my memory for titles is terrible, so I can't think of any offhand. I would be surprised if there weren't a fair number of them, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:52:47 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:52:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Graham Message-ID: <2CC8115D-EC78-46AB-8FFB-AEBD036421E4@ripon.edu> And I'm afraid I'm guilty of a few myself. Here's one I did in imitation of/homage to Weldon Kees, when I realized that he was 12 years old in his poem "1926." Wrote a poem about the year I was 12. 1965 --after Weldon Kees, "1926" Crickets in thickening air, midsummer, no dream arriving better than my castaway novel. Twelve years old. A far fire siren sets neighborhood dogs howling. No stars. I glimpse TV blue flickering on the Baxters' windows and know what show. Know nothing of Roger Baxter dead in Da Nang or my own lottery number to come. Too hot a night to peer into the future. Somewhere a record player rejoices, *Ticket to Ride* and splashy laughter. Car brakes squeal. I turn another page. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 13:01:19 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:01:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ed Byrne's blog Message-ID: From sometime NewPo contributor Ed Byrne, editor of the fine *Valparaiso Poetry Review,* which I also recommend to anyone who's not run across it: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr. Ed's blog is incredibly meaty, with many longish reviews of new books already posted. I've no idea how he has found the time for this. . . . Anyway, his note: "I have initiated an editor's blog to complement the semiannual publication of VPR. The editor's blog has just begun and will contain ongoing personal commentary about notable recent books of poetry. Since VPR receives many more review copies of new books than can possibly be examined within the journal, the complementary blog is intended to allow for ongoing further discussion and promotion of recommended books. I invite you to check out this new venue, and I encourage you to pass the word along to other lovers of contemporary poetry. The blog is located at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Thank you, again, for your continuing support of VPR. Best wishes, Ed -------------------------------------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 13:05:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:05:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f301c74e07$3b56a460$26a33852@ANNY> MCMXIV* By Philip Larkin Those long uneven lines Standing as patiently As if they were stretched outside The Oval or Villa Park, The crowns of hats, the sun On moustached archaic faces Grinning as if it were all An august bank Holiday lark; And the shut shops, the bleached, Established names on the sunblinds, The farthings and sovereigns, And dark-clothed children at play Called after kings and queens, The tin advertisements For cocoa and twist, and the pubs Wide ope all day; And the countryside not caring: The place-names all hazed over With flowering grasses, and fields Shadowing Domesday lines Under what?s restless silence; The differently-dressed servants With tiny rooms in huge houses, The dust behind limousines; Never such innocence, Never before or since, As changed itself to past Without a word ? the men Leaving the gardens tidy, The thousands of marriages Lasting a little while longer Never such innocence again. a.. 1914 - In roman numerals, as incised on stone memorials to the dead of World War I b.. The Oval or Villa Park ? London cricket ground and Birmingham football ground c.. The farthings and sovereigns ? At that time, the least valuable and the most valuable British coins, respectively d.. Shadowing Domesday lines ? The still visible boundaries of medieval farmers? long and narrow plots, ownership of which is recorded in William the Conqueror?s Domesday Book (1085-86) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 13:13:03 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:13:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00fd01c74e08$468b55f0$26a33852@ANNY> MARGARET WALKER Since 1619 How many years since 1619 have I been singing Spirituals? How long have I been praising God and shouting hallelujahs? How long have I been hated and hating? How long have I been living in hell for heaven? When will I see my brother?s face wearing another color? When will I be ready to die in a honest fight? When will I be conscious of the struggle ? nor to do or die? When will these scales fall away from my eyes? What will I say when days of wrath descend When the money-gods take all my life away; When the death knell sounds And peace is a flag of far-flung blood and filth? When will I understand the cheated and the cheaters; Their paltry pittances and cold concessions to my pride? When will I burst from my kennel an angry mongrel, Lean and hungry and tired of my dry bones and years? Notes: Since 1619 ? The year that the first African slaves arrived in Jamestown, Virginia, abroad a Dutch frigate When will these scales fall away from my eyes? ? The account of Saul?s conversion in Acts 9.18: ?And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized?. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 13:26:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:26:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010701c74e0a$1d07abf0$26a33852@ANNY> EDMUND BLUNDEN 1916 seen from 1921 Tired with dull grief, grown old before my day, I sit in solitude and only hear Long silent laughters, murmurings of dismay, The lost intensities of hope and fear; In those old marshes yet the rifles lie, On the thin breastwork flutter the grey rags, The very books I read are there ? and I Dead as the men I loved, wait while life drags Its wounded length from those sad streets of war Into green places here, that were my own; But now what once was mine is mine no more, I seek such neighbours here and I find none. With such strong gentleness and tireless will Those ruined houses seared themselves in me, Passionate I look for their dumb story still, And the charred stub outspeaks the living tree. I rise up at the singing of a bird And scarcely knowing slink along the lane, I dare not give a soul a look or word Where all have homes and none?s at home in vain: Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, The self-sown wheat around was like a flood, In the hot path the lizard lolled time out, The saints in broken shrines were bright as blood. Sweet Mary?s shrine between the sycamores! There we would go, my friend of friends and I, And snatch long moments from the grudging wars, Whose dark made light intense to see them by. Shrewd bit the morning fog, the whining shots Spun from the wrangling wire; then in warm swoon The sun hushed all but the cool orchard plots, We crept in the tall grass and slept till noon. Notes: Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, - Earthwork defensive position enclosed on all sides -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Feb 11 13:42:03 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:42:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <010701c74e0a$1d07abf0$26a33852@ANNY> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> <010701c74e0a$1d07abf0$26a33852@ANNY> Message-ID: Paris, October 1936 From all of this I am the only one who leaves. From this bench I go away, from my pants, from my great situation, from my actions, from my number split side to side, from all of this I am the only one who leaves. From the Champs Elys?es or as the strange alley of the Moon makes a turn, my death goes away, my cradle leaves, and, surrounded by people, alone, cut loose, my human resemblance turns around and dispatches its shadows one by one. And I move away from everything, since everything remains to create my alibi: my shoe, its eyelet, as well as its mud and even the bend in the elbow of my own buttoned shirt. Cesar Vallejo Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 11, 2007, at 12:26 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > EDMUND BLUNDEN > 1916 seen from 1921 > > Tired with dull grief, grown old before my day, > I sit in solitude and only hear > Long silent laughters, murmurings of dismay, > The lost intensities of hope and fear; > In those old marshes yet the rifles lie, > On the thin breastwork flutter the grey rags, > The very books I read are there ? and I > Dead as the men I loved, wait while life drags > > Its wounded length from those sad streets of war > Into green places here, that were my own; > But now what once was mine is mine no more, > I seek such neighbours here and I find none. > With such strong gentleness and tireless will > Those ruined houses seared themselves in me, > Passionate I look for their dumb story still, > And the charred stub outspeaks the living tree. > > I rise up at the singing of a bird > And scarcely knowing slink along the lane, > I dare not give a soul a look or word > Where all have homes and none?s at home in vain: > Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, > The self-sown wheat around was like a flood, > In the hot path the lizard lolled time out, > The saints in broken shrines were bright as blood. > > Sweet Mary?s shrine between the sycamores! > There we would go, my friend of friends and I, > And snatch long moments from the grudging wars, > Whose dark made light intense to see them by. > Shrewd bit the morning fog, the whining shots > Spun from the wrangling wire; then in warm swoon > The sun hushed all but the cool orchard plots, > We crept in the tall grass and slept till noon. > > > Notes: > Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, - Earthwork defensive > position enclosed on all sides > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From hawkbrwn Sun Feb 11 14:48:03 2007 From: hawkbrwn (Elaine Brown) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:48:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Whoo hoo! Congrats! On 2/10/07 6:58 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... > > In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > JforJames at aol.com writes: >> >> The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really >> >> appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: >> >> David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going >> >> for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. >> >> >> >> I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good >> >> way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people >> >> come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always >> >> great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... >> >> sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for >> >> that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated >> >> background with a remark. >> >> >> >> Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested >> >> in subscribing....it's free, we like free: >> >> -- >> >> To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to >> contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, >> open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Feb 11 14:49:15 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:49:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60702111149h48e83d6ct78262654609ef081@mail.gmail.com> >From the Island, 1860 1 One day as she rinsed clothes from the jetty the chill of the strait rose through her arms into her life. Her tears froze into a pair of glasses. The island raised itself in the grass and the banner of Baltic herring swayed in the depths. 2 And the swarm of smallpox caught up with him clustered onto his face. He lies and stares at the ceiling. What plying of oars up the silence. The moment's eternally running stain the moment's eternally bleeding point. - Tomas Transtromer, _The Sad Gondola_, trans. Robin Fulton ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 14:50:19 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:50:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ed Byrne's blog References: Message-ID: <018d01c74e15$dc917b30$26a33852@ANNY> I don't know either how he can make it, thanks for sending the link over. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ed Byrne's blog From sometime NewPo contributor Ed Byrne, editor of the fine *Valparaiso Poetry Review,* which I also recommend to anyone who's not run across it: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr. Ed's blog is incredibly meaty, with many longish reviews of new books already posted. I've no idea how he has found the time for this. . . . Anyway, his note: "I have initiated an editor's blog to complement the semiannual publication of VPR. The editor's blog has just begun and will contain ongoing personal commentary about notable recent books of poetry. Since VPR receives many more review copies of new books than can possibly be examined within the journal, the complementary blog is intended to allow for ongoing further discussion and promotion of recommended books. I invite you to check out this new venue, and I encourage you to pass the word along to other lovers of contemporary poetry. The blog is located at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Thank you, again, for your continuing support of VPR. Best wishes, Ed -------------------------------------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer Sun Feb 11 15:02:19 2007 From: mheffer (Michael Heffernan) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:02:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years Message-ID: Off the top of me head: England in 1819 (Shelley) September 1913 (Yeats) Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen (Yeats) Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931 (Yeats) It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand (Frost) Mozart, 1935 (Stevens) And here is an odd little piece by Thomas Hardy that I've always loved, with the most wonderfully loopy last line: 1967 In five-score summers! All new eyes, New minds, new modes, new fools, new wise; New woes to weep, new joys to prize; With nothing left of me and you In that live century's vivid view Beyond a pinch of dust or two; A century which, if not sublime, Will show, I doubt not, at its prime, A scope above this blinkered time. - Yet what to me how far above? For I would only ask thereof That thy worm should be my worm, Love! (1867) Michael Heffernan From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 15:50:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:50:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1966 Message-ID: <01bc01c74e1e$3b5af2b0$26a33852@ANNY> for the occasion I gave a date to this short pOm just put together: 1966 the black houses of the small villages in Italy most fearful at night used to growl and crouch hiss and screech with holes and eyes in most unseen sites they talked of hell of poisoned fruits of sins of those who were damned they've painted them white now enlarged attached views screened TV's show gluing wishes set nets to catch they anyhow remain the black fearful houses with burning deeds ready to grasp hell I was first sent to Italy from New York when I was ten to my grandparents' (on my mother's side) and a spinster aunt -there were trips before but we were together - this time I was on my own. That is what I saw, and this is what I see. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 11 17:56:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:56:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fenton considered Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/books/review/Metcalf.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogi n_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/books/review/Metcalf.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) Informal Menace By STEPHEN METCALF Published: February 11, 2007 Every poet strikes his or her own balance between innocence and experience, and that balance is easily lost. If lost to experience, the poet gets lost along with it: to feline self-regard, to the sly messaging of the in-group. The danger to an English poet is probably greater than to an American counterpart. There the apparatus of public acclaim sits, spring-loaded and ready to descend upon the promising young talent. This inevitably alters the way the promising young talent thinks and feels and writes. Maybe it is preferable, when young, to be stranded amid philistines than dandled by old toadies. The English poet James Fenton has survived the specter of his own immense promise. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 18:02:32 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:02:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> Okay, after one day of taking suggestions, I've posted what I've got so far below. Please continue to send me (on or off-list) poems that you think of. This may bloom into a real anthology project for me (one day). I don't have any of the dates when these poems were actually written--I probably should. I'll have to do some research. Thanks to everyone who has posted a poem. I much appreciate it. Best, Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) 1970-1979 "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 18:06:54 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:06:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> I Go Back to May 1937 I see them standing at the formal gates of their colleges, I see my father strolling out under the ochre sandstone arch, the red tiles glinting like bent plates of blood behind his head, I see my mother with a few light books at her hip standing at the pillar made of tiny bricks with the wrought-iron gate still open behind her, its sword-tips black in the May air, they are about to graduate, they are about to get married, they are kids, they are dumb, all they know is they are innocent, they would never hurt anybody. I want to go up to them and say Stop, don't do it--she's the wrong woman, he's the wrong man, you are going to do things you cannot imagine you would ever do, you are going to do bad things to children, you are going to suffer in ways you never heard of, you are going to want to die. I want to go up to them there in the late May sunlight and say it, her hungry pretty blank face turning to me, her pitiful beautiful untouched body, his arrogant handsome blind face turning to me, his pitiful beautiful untouched body, but I don't do it. I want to live. I take them up like the male and female paper dolls and bang them together at the hips like chips of flint as if to strike sparks from them, I say Do what you are going to do, and I will tell about it. --Sharon Olds (from The Gold Cell) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 18:12:02 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:12:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks David, Jeff On 2/11/07, David Graham wrote: > > *I Go Back to May 1937 * > > I see them standing at the formal gates of their colleges, > I see my father strolling out > under the ochre sandstone arch, the > red tiles glinting like bent > plates of blood behind his head, I > see my mother with a few light books at her hip > standing at the pillar made of tiny bricks with the > wrought-iron gate still open behind her, its > sword-tips black in the May air, > they are about to graduate, they are about to get married, > they are kids, they are dumb, all they know is they are > innocent, they would never hurt anybody. > I want to go up to them and say Stop, > don't do it--she's the wrong woman, > he's the wrong man, you are going to do things > you cannot imagine you would ever do, > you are going to do bad things to children, > you are going to suffer in ways you never heard of, > you are going to want to die. I want to go > up to them there in the late May sunlight and say it, > her hungry pretty blank face turning to me, > her pitiful beautiful untouched body, > his arrogant handsome blind face turning to me, > his pitiful beautiful untouched body, > but I don't do it. I want to live. I > take them up like the male and female > paper dolls and bang them together > at the hips like chips of flint as if to > strike sparks from them, I say > Do what you are going to do, and I will tell about it. > > > --Sharon Olds (from The Gold Cell) > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 18:25:11 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:25:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> I don't seem to have them at my fingertips, but Marianne Boruch has a # of poems with dates in the title. My favorite is "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970." She's also got one just called "1957," and one on the Berlin Wall that I think has the date in it. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Sun Feb 11 18:58:52 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:58:52 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Here's one of mine, Jeff: 1969 For Ty A dim-lit, smoky bar. Your twenty-first Birthday has brought a golden Benrus watch, A marriage, a degree, a double Scotch-- None of which will quite satisfy your thirst. It's after one. The pianist is playing Procul Harum's "A Whiter Shade of Pale." You scuff your side-zip boots along the rail And neither think of leaving nor of staying. Why bring it back again? Surely you know Your future guns his engine at the door, And soon enough he'll steer an exit for A suburb where you have no wish to go. Why bring it back? Because you want me to. Because you want to light your cigarette, Clutching a scene which you cannot forget Where everything you gaze upon is new. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 11 19:50:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:50:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Don't have the text typed, but here's another... "1953," by Jack Gilbert, THE GREAT FIRES, Knopf, 1994 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Sun Feb 11 20:00:30 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:00:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> Jeffrey McDaniel has some 1977, 1978 or so I think in his first book... Chris On Feb 11, 2007, at 3:25 PM, David Graham wrote: > I don't seem to have them at my fingertips, but Marianne Boruch has > a # of poems with dates in the title. My favorite is "Vietnam > Birthday Lottery, 1970." She's also got one just called "1957," > and one on the Berlin Wall that I think has the date in it. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 11 20:09:53 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:09:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com><20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu><731bb17 a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com><5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> 6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net Message-ID: <024201c74e42$824ef850$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> It'll be amusing to find out what the most popular year for poets to use in titles is. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Sun Feb 11 20:31:52 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:31:52 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <024201c74e42$824ef850$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com><20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu><731bb17 a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com><5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> 6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net <024201c74e42$824ef850$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <0DDF0070-F27F-4C8D-BDB4-E4CF2D0EDBDF@earthlink.net> & the most popular year interval between date of composition and date of 'subject' or 'aura'--- Like the difference between a movie released in 1977 that takes place in 1947 and a movie released in 2007 that takes place in 1947 (sorry, but I saw one recently and i got me thinking about year-dates are often used as reductive little banners, captions or boxes in which the characters of a 'period piece' fit-- how it seems like this weird attempt at another kind of segregation between 'the ages' So 1980 in many ways can be a bogey-man for me! (Boo! Or as Gil Scott Heron put it in his (why not call it a poem?) song lyric from 1979--- "it's 1980 and there ain't no way back to 1975 much less 1969 it's 1980 and there ain't nobody ask me no time lately how we gonna open the door for 1984...." what year are you IN now? (must choose at least 3....) public time, private time....LIKE wordsworth's 1805 PRELUDE or the 1855 LEAVES OF GRASS (those dates might as well be the TITLE of the poem the way it's treated TALKING HEADS'77 is no more of a true title than SEX PISTOLS'77 ah the shell game of fashion in a maddening (Hyusmansesque) pallor (parlor) oh, and pathos.... the time in the composition, continuous peasant 2002, by any other name, would smell as nasal On Feb 11, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > It'll be amusing to find out what the most popular year for poets > to use in titles is. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 20:46:56 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:46:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Feb 11, 2007, at 7:00 PM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Jeffrey McDaniel has some 1977, 1978 or so I think in his first > book... > > Chris > ------------ Yes, he does. Here's 1976. I've also seen 1975 and 1977. . . . 1976 The third grade teacher says: no homework if this know-it-all can produce a future. I can't find one in my knapsack. Where is it?, she asks. Did you leave it at home with your mother? Rodents of laughter scurry down the aisles. She uses a finger to punctuate my chest. Actually, my future's in a different time zone. It ran off to Hollywood at an early age. Hmpph! She tapes a sign to my desk: futureless know-it-all and asks if I'm satisfied. I'm not. I never will be. During a lesson on natural disaster, her heart beats her to death. I inform the class: she swallowed an earthquake, and deposit the futureless know-it-all sign in her hand. I go outside, clutching only the present, and move like time towards an open space. Jeffrey McDaniel ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 22:16:41 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:16:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Chas Wright In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: One more, then I'm done for today! This one's an update of the Hardy ("1967") that we saw earlier. 2035 will be the centenary of Charles Wright's birth. Self-Portrait in 2035 The root becomes him, the road ruts That are sift and grain in the powderlight Recast him, sink bone in him, Blanket and creep up, fine, fine: Worm-waste and pillow tick; hair Prickly and dust-dangled, his arms and black shoes Unlinked and laceless, his face false In the wood-rot, and past pause . . . Darkness, erase these lines, forget these words. Spider recite his one sin. --Charles Wright. China Trace. Wesleyan UP, 1977. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer Sun Feb 11 23:01:45 2007 From: mheffer (Michael Heffernan) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:01:45 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Frost's "Hiroshima Poem" Message-ID: In re: David Graham's ironic comment about Frost's "U.S. 1946 King's X" ("Oh, I forgot, Frost's a pastoralist; he couldn't have written a Hiroshima poem, could he?"): Actually, I have always thought "Directive" (in the same book, Steeple Bush) was Frost's great poem about nuclear war?i.e., "a Hiroshima (& Nagasaki) poem." The central hint is in the reference to how "two village cultures faded / Into each other. Both of them are lost." This is one of the places where "(a poem) begins to be ulterior," as Frost suggests in "On Taking Poetry." [I owe this insight to Peter Stanlis's elucidation of "The Black Cottage," in Caxtonian, January 2002.] Sudden unannounced turns toward ulteriority are virtually a Frost trademark?some of them blatant, like the bees in the wall at the end of "The Black Cottage," or when, in "The Bonfire," the horror of aerial warfare in World War I suddenly emerges as the poem's terrible irresistible final surprise. "Directive," by contrast, is a great deal more evasive, in its treatment of what is usually read as a spiritual journey to a place of desolation and renewal: "Here are your waters and your watering place. / Drink and be whole again beyond confusion." The poem is definitely shadowed, from the outset, by "all this now too much for us." Its first appearance in the Winter 1946 issue of VQR, along with other pieces of verse and prose referencing the events of the previous August, is more than coincidental?as is its position in Steeple Bush (1947), where "U.S. 1946 King's X" follows a sonnet called "Bursting Rapture," with its reference to "a certain bomb" as the "mounting ecstasy ... too exquisite to bear" that "will find relief in one burst." Frost is seldom accorded such utter contemporaneity, and seldomer acknowledged to have noticed what certain of our more extreme religionists, even then, might have been expecting from American warmaking options. Such a reading seems far-fetched, until one leaves off rubbing one's eyes. What, indeed, could that quaint old pastoralist have been contemplating? Michael Heffernan From opus40-01 Mon Feb 12 00:47:10 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:47:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1966 Message-ID: <3730.1171259230@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Feb 12 06:25:42 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 06:25:42 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_Re:_Transtr=F6mer_?= References: <200612151452.kBFEqK8X027491@wiz.cath.vt.edu> C035691A-5A84-473E-9783-0DB5C57C5897@overdomain.com Message-ID: <003701c74e98$8a181ca0$55fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Seems to me you gave a plausible paraphrase but nothing more, Crisman. What happens in the poem that's special? You never said. --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crisman Cooley" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Transtr?mer > Okay, I'm playing the game. The title, I notice, is Breathing Room (or > Space) July. From this I gather that the poem takes place in July and > that it has something to do with space or breathing or room to breathe... > We shall see. (I'm playing the game, coincidentally, after 3 glasses of > organic Merlot from Hectore at La Carpa-- a wine that ages very slowly > even after it is opened and comes in a 4-liter bottle-- I believe wine is > no longer the drink of poets... but I don't know what is. Any faults in > the interpretation I lay upon Dionysius. I'd prefer to know what they > were doing in the Eleusinian mystery cults, which seems much more > relevant to me. And if I'd just done THAT, the interpretation would > probably be flawless.) So "lying on his back" leaning, loafing > [foul! -- rule 4 broken], breathing we assume, with room to breathe. > Then the very odd: "he is also up there." But that's not difficult. He > is in two places at once. Likely, he's "under tall trees" and simply > looking up-- but looking up with such intensity that he's also up there. > Or imagining himself up there. Or having burst the boundaries of his own > skin... further evidence for this in: "He rills into thousands of twigs > and branches..." Rills of course as a verb is weird. [Breaking rule 4 > again: look in the Oxford American (the OED having died inside of my dead > IBM laptop) for rill: "verb intrans. (of water) flow in or as in a rill." > Okay. So he's flying or flowing up into the branches, and the flowing is > splitting off getting smaller and smaller-- very well. "...is swayed > back and forth..." so these rivulets are moving up in the air-- no > problem. "As if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion" ... huh? Is > that him flung up from the ground into the air? Yeah probably. "Slow" > because that's how trees move in wind. I'm breaking rule 4 to infer wind > from tree motion. But perhaps the motion is from a man climbing up there > with a chainsaw... no, no evidence for that! > > "Standing by the jetties..." okay, suddenly by the water. Trees gone > and flowed right down into the sea. Eyes squinting, narrowing or screwed > up. Prefer MS's squinting. "Narrowing" is confusion of parallax with a > change of distance between the eyes-- completely fallacious. And screwed > up-- well, it's just not something someone is in polite society. "The > docks ages sooner than men." An artifact of the poor web master typing > furiously late at night to get the Transtromer translations up on the web > before she eats at midnight, sleeps at 12:20am-- despite the latte at > 10:30. Surely neither Transtorm or Ms. Swenson would (do or) say such a > thing. Fulton and Bly have avoided the grammatical error, but the sheer > effort reminds me of a dance between Gargantua and Pantagruel-- but that > may be the wine. Men and docks both turn silver with age-- thereupon > turns the metaphor. No? And wood turns silver in less than 50 years. A > statement of fact, by way of metaphor. "Stones in their bellies" or > "stomachs" or "boulders in their guts." Bly is consistently funniest. I > think this is the pebbles stuck between the boards of the piers... what > else? Which would preclude "boulders" unless the space between planks is > larger than a man's waist, so that boulders would fit in. In that case, > even Bly would fall through. "...blinding light rips ... through" or > "beats right in" or "drives in" [in a yacht, perhaps? ...no]. "In" > what? Well, remember, the guy is squinting. So maybe it rips into his > eyes. Or into the pier. But anyway "across the waters..." > > "Sailing all day in an open boat" ... no problem here! "over the > glittering bights". I remember bight meaning the gravitational curve in > a rope or the inertial curve in a wave as it moves up sand. So > glittering bights would seem to be waves out in the water... though not > quite, therefore back to the dictionary. "A curve or recess in a > coastline, river, or other..." but if it's a curve, how come Fulton > translates the same thing as "straits"? Straits may not be straight but > they're narrow and not necessarily curved. Bly calls 'em bays. So be > it. Bright waterways. "he will fall fast asleep at last inside a blue > lamp" Finally, we're reintroduced to the "he". But this he is in a > boat, sleeping. The first was sleeping under trees, the second standing > on a pier, the third now is lying in a boat. And we presume they all > have "breathing room". Each is doing essentially nothing. The hard work > of the poet. "a blue lamp" or "his blue lamp" -- the sky? Bright sun > does light the sky's mantle like heat lights the coleman lantern mantle. > "...islands... creep" or "crawl" like -- what is drawn to the lamp? > "moths". Very well. "over the glass", "across the glass", "over the > globe" -- water is glass, covers the globe (at least in the sea)... and > is ripped by light, made to look shiny, glass. > > Okay, it is one guy or three? It could be 3 poses of one guy during > July. Or a particular day and 3 different approaches to breathing. Just > like the guy can lie on the ground and be in the tree-- it can be one guy > in 3 places all at once, or 3 guys at the same time, brought into > proximity only in the poet's imagination, or one guy at three different > times. The poem gives permission to take all three perspectives. > > On Dec 15, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> Let's see if we can make this an interesting discussion. Here are the >> rules: 1. You must think, really think before you say something; 2. As >> you read these 3 versions of a Transtr?mer poem, you must actually pay >> attention to your own esthetic reactions; 3. You must report what is >> your esthetic reaction to a particular word, phrase or image; 4. You >> must not comment on what is NOT in the poem, only what is in it; 5. You >> can only voice your own esthetic reaction, and are strictly disallowed >> from making political comments or any other comments other than A. your >> own esthetic experience, or B. comments about your own esthetic >> experience. 6. You are allowed to comment on the variation between >> translations, knowing, but not caring, that these are not about >> Transtr?mer, but are about the text actually in the new-po post (the >> Object of Discussion); 7. these translations are the only object of >> discussion; 8. The question "What's this guy do that's special?" must be >> changed subtly to "What is my esthetic reaction to what these >> translators say this guy does?" 9. In the process of following the >> rules, your original question will be answered, but not in a way to >> prove anything, since esthetic discussions never prove anything. >> Proving something would be breaking rules #2,3,4, and 5. Ready? >> >> Here are the texts: [note that the May Swenson translation appears to >> have an error in line 6] >> >> Breathing Room: July >> >> Lying on his back under tall trees >> he is also up there. He rills into thousands of twigs and branches, >> is swayed back and forth, >> as if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion. >> >> Standing down by the jetties he squints across the waters. >> The docks ages sooner than men. >> Made of splintered silver gray planks, and with stones in their >> bellies. >> The blinding light rips its way straight through. >> >> Sailing all day in an open boat >> over the glittering bights, >> he will fall asleep at last inside a blue lamp >> while islands like great nocturnal moths creep over the glass. >> >> Translation by May Swenson >> >> Breathing Space July >> >> The man lying on his back under the high trees >> is up there too. He rills out in thousandfold twigs, >> sways to and fro, >> sits in an ejector seat that releases in slow motion. >> >> The man down by the jetties narrows his eyes at the water. >> The jetties grow old more quickly than people. >> They have silver grey timber and stones in their stomachs. >> The blinding light beats right in. >> >> The man traveling all day in an open boat >> over the glittering straits >> >> Will sleep at last inside a blue lamp >> while the islands creep like large moths across the glass. >> >> Translation by Robert Fulton >> >> Breathing Space July >> >> The man who lies on his back under huge trees >> is also up in them. He branches out into thousands of tiny branches. >> He sways back and forth, >> he sits in a catapult chair that hurtles forward in slow motion. >> >> The man who stands down at the dock screws up his eyes against the >> water. >> Docks get older faster than men. >> They have silver-gray posts and boulders in their gut. >> The dazzling light drives straight in. >> >> The man who spends the whole day in an open boat >> moving over the luminous bays >> will fall asleep at last inside the shade of his blue lamp >> as the islands crawl like huge moths over the globe. >> >> Translation by Robert Bly >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:50:49 -0500 >>> From: "Bob Grumman" >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Transtromer >> >> >>>> It doesn't matter whether you've read a whole book. What matters (if >>>> you >>>> are interested in educating yourself and others about your esthetic >>>> predilections) is that you make specific comments about a specific >>>> poem. >>> >>> How about a specific question such as the one implied by my post, >>> what's >>> this guy do that's special? >>> >>> --Bob G. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 12 09:26:58 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:26:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry References: Message-ID: <004b01c74eb1$db2fcf70$d3aa3452@ANNY> I found several ones with dates, I thought we had to stick to years. All the poems I sent up to now have been taken from The Northon Anthology of Poetry, fourth edition, Margaret Ferguson, Mary Jo Salter, John Stallworthy. this should be it, Amen: Easter 19161 William Butler Yeats I have met them at close of day Coming with vivid faces >From counter or desk among grey Eighteenth-century houses. I have passed with a nod of the head Or polite meaningless words, Or have lingered awhile and said Polite meaningless words, And thought before I had done Of a mocking tale or a gibe To please a companion Around the fire at the club, Being certain that they and I But lived where motley is worn: All changed, changed utterly: A terrible beauty is born. That woman's days were spent In ignorant good will, Her nights in argument Until her voice grew shrill. What voice more sweet than hers When, young and beautiful, She rode to harriers?2 This man had kept a school And rode out winged horse, 3 This other his helper and friend Was coming into his force; He might have won fame in the end, So sensitive his nature seemed, So daring and sweet his thought. This other man I had dreamed A drunken, vainglorious lout.4 He had done most bitter wrong To some who are near my heart, Yet I number him in the song; He, too, has resigned his part In the casual comedy; He, too, has been changed in his turn, Transformed utterly: A terrible beauty is born. Hearts will one purpose alone Through summer and winter seem Enchanted to a stone To trouble the living stream. The horse that comes from the road, The rider, the birds that range >From cloud to tumbling cloud, Minute by minute they change; A shadow of cloud on the stream Changes minute by minute; A horse-hoof slides on the brim, And a horse plashes within it; The long-legged moor-hens dive, And hens to moor-cocks call; Minute by minute they live: The stone's in the midst of all. Too long a sacrifice Can make a stone of the heart. O when may it suffice? That is Heaven's part, our part To murmur name upon name, As a mother names her child When sleep at last has come On limbs that had run wild. What is it but nightfall? No, no, not night but death; Was it needless death after all? For England may keep faith For all that si done and said. We know their dream, enough To know they dreamed and are dead, And what if excess of love Bewildered them till they died? I write it out in a verse - MacDonagh and MacBride And Connolly and Pearse Now and in time to be, Wherever green is worn, Are changed, changed utterly. A terrible beauty is born. September 25, 1916 1 - An Irish Nationalist uprising had been planned for Easter Sunday 1916, and although the German ship that was bringing munitions had been intercepted by the British, attempts to postpone the uprising failed; it began in Dublin on Easter Monday. "Fifteen hundred men seized key points and an Irish republic was proclaimed from the General Post Office. After the initial surprise prompt British military action was taken, and when over 300 lives had been lost the insurgents were forced to surrender on April 29. . The seven signatories of the republican proclamation, including [P?draic] Pearse and [James] Connolly, and nine others were shot after court martial between 3 and 12 May. 75 were reprieved and over 2000 held prisoners" [From "Ireland History," by D. B. Quinn, in Chambers's Encyclopedia]. 2 - Countess Constance Georgina Markiewicz, n?e Gore-Boothe, about whom Yeats wrote: "On a Political Prisoner" and a later poem, "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and ConMarkiewicz." 3 - P?draic Pearse, headmaster of St. Enda's School, and a prolific writer of poems, plays, and stories, as well as of essays on Irish politics and Gaelic literature. The winged mythological horse, Pegasus, is here used as a symbol of poetic inspiration. "This other" was Thomas MacDonough, also a schoolteacher. 4 - Major John MacBride who had married Maud Conne (the woman with whom Yeats had for years been hopelessly in love) in 1903 and separated from her in 1905. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 12 09:48:04 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:48:04 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Americana, 1924 They learned first how to handle a rifle and went into the woods for squirrel and pheasant and hooked bait with the care of a paleontologist. At night they sat with whisky and said to a companion "Let's get drunk" and the answer came back "All right." When they went to war and were afraid and got shot up and found a girl and had a family or shot lion and climbed Kilimanjaro and pursued the dark Iberian gored who sighted with his sword the place of death behind the bull's neck and went in over the horns, holding back nothing, all they had to say was "It's good when the fall rains come" and the answer was "Swell." Will there be no more larks or Cezanne apples? Adieu then. --Carl Rakosi fr. Sumac (Vol. 2, No. 4; Fall 1970) Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 11:59:10 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:59:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Speaking of '1979', that's another good one by Billy Corgan/Smashing Pumpkins. Finnegan In a message dated 2/11/2007 8:32:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: So 1980 in many ways can be a bogey-man for me! (Boo! Or as Gil Scott Heron put it in his (why not call it a poem?) song lyric from 1979--- "it's 1980 and there ain't no way back to 1975 much less 1969 it's 1980 and there ain't nobody ask me no time lately how we gonna open the door for 1984...." what year are you IN now? (must choose at least 3....) public time, private time....LIKE wordsworth's 1805 PRELUDE or the 1855 LEAVES OF GRASS (those dates might as well be the TITLE of the poem the way it's treated TALKING HEADS'77 is no more of a true title than SEX PISTOLS'77 ah the shell game of fashion in a maddening (Hyusmansesque) pallor (parlor) oh, and pathos.... the time in the composition, continuous peasant 2002, by any other name, would smell as nasal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 12:17:22 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:17:22 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] new Ashbery reviewed Message-ID: _http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/entertainment/books/16670710.htm_ (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/entertainment/books/16670710.htm) Posted on Sun, Feb. 11, 2007 A poet with a gift for the odd and unique A Worldly Country By John Ashbery Ecco. 76 pp. $23.95 Reviewed by Bryan Appleyard 'Who charted / this anxious mappemonde," asks John Ashbery, "barren of side roads / and identity crises?" The mappemonde - world map - seems to be in our heads, charted. Yet is it also unknowable? It depicts the "worldly country" of this collection's title. In common speech worldly means something like "materialistic," but, highlighted thus, suggests a place that is a world. It can also be misread - or, in my case, repeatedly mistyped - as "wordy." We are in a world of words that stubbornly remains undiscovered so that, when our mouths are finally stopped, we will be sure that "there was much left to say." But about what? Everything? The trick with Ashbery is to relax. You are not going to get what you expect, nor, in all likelihood, what you want. But what you will get will be beautiful, strange and, above all, unique. Ashbery is stricken by the sheer discreteness of things. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 12:19:15 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:19:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Enroll Now in Writing Workshops & Seminars Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: 92nd Street Y Literary Reading & Writing Workshops <92y at 92y.pmailus.com> Subject: Enroll Now in Writing Workshops & Seminars Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:05:28 -0500 (EST) Size: 26936 URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 12:33:59 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:33:59 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Guided Tour of Skyscraper 2000 We take the elevator to the top, stepping out onto into the full light and ceaseless wind of the high steel. Construction began in 1900 and is not yet complete. Some Native-American workers mutter "manifest destiny" as we pass along a narrow gantry, all around the clank of metal, acetylene blue flares, the push to finish the last stories before the end of the century. We take an unenclosed stairwell down to 98, running everywhichway, loops & coils of computer cable, phonelines, a tangle of computer monitors slung under the ceiling. Spread out over a conference table milled from ebony, chainsawed then dragged out of an Indonesian rainforest by oxen, there's a high-stakes poker game going on in Eurodollars and yen-value derivatives, winner-take-all, but the developing countries don't have enough to buy in. Down another set of stairs, we walk from room-to-stark-white-room, hospital wards where AIDS patients lying on gurneys, emaciated, wrapped in sheets, daub open sores with the newest salves, waiting for a cure. Other rooms taken over by garage bands cranking up huge amps to the point of feedback, full of power chords and lung-busting angst, beating on rows of empty oildrums until the fossil fuels run out. Paisley people in palsied dancing, naked in the rain. Dogs let loose on black children. Long cars with big fins funneling down ramps of parking garages emptying onto freeways headed for model neighborhoods, many square miles of homes, all alike, perfect green yards without trees, kids playing army get cut down by the machinegun fire of sprinklers, Vietnam, Korea, steaming casseroles laid out on formica-topped dinettes, then flashlight tag 'til aproned mothers call them home. Stand back and shield your eyes, there's a blinding, concussive light behind the glass doors to Hiroshima-Nagasaki Ltd. Floors in the 40s are still burning, a fine bone-white ash wafting from the offices of the Reich III Corporation, dust blowing down rutted corridors on 33, whole families in trucks moving west toward where the sun fails and falls each day into the Pacific, outside only the suicidal rain of stock traders leaping to their deaths. A speakeasy down two flights, jazz seeping molten under the door, just knock twice, at the bar a man sips a gin fizz, nervously pulls at the brim of a fedora, shell casings loose in the pocket of his pinstriped suit. A few floors below, hallways like trenches cut through mud, glint of bayonnets, gasmasks and whistles blowing, light fixtures explode illuminating a no-man's-land of twisted barbwire, bombcraters smoldering. Farther down, in the basement, all of the dead are being stacked like cordwood for stoking a great cast-iron boiler which better never breakdown, because by now no one's left alive who really knows how to fix the thing. The eyes of small animals shine beneath a wooden skid, roaches scatter under gaslight, growing dim. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 12 15:19:10 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:19:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry References: Message-ID: <004001c74ee3$0e992a10$1dde3052@ANNY> I think I already read this poem, and I have loved it. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Guided Tour of Skyscraper 2000 We take the elevator to the top, stepping out onto into the full light and ceaseless wind of the high steel. Construction began in 1900 and is not yet complete. Some Native-American workers mutter "manifest destiny" as we pass along a narrow gantry, all around the clank of metal, acetylene blue flares, the push to finish the last stories before the end of the century. We take an unenclosed stairwell down to 98, running everywhichway, loops & coils of computer cable, phonelines, a tangle of computer monitors slung under the ceiling. Spread out over a conference table milled from ebony, chainsawed then dragged out of an Indonesian rainforest by oxen, there's a high-stakes poker game going on in Eurodollars and yen-value derivatives, winner-take-all, but the developing countries don't have enough to buy in. Down another set of stairs, we walk from room-to-stark-white-room, hospital wards where AIDS patients lying on gurneys, emaciated, wrapped in sheets, daub open sores with the newest salves, waiting for a cure. Other rooms taken over by garage bands cranking up huge amps to the point of feedback, full of power chords and lung-busting angst, beating on rows of empty oildrums until the fossil fuels run out. Paisley people in palsied dancing, naked in the rain. Dogs let loose on black children. Long cars with big fins funneling down ramps of parking garages emptying onto freeways headed for model neighborhoods, many square miles of homes, all alike, perfect green yards without trees, kids playing army get cut down by the machinegun fire of sprinklers, Vietnam, Korea, steaming casseroles laid out on formica-topped dinettes, then flashlight tag 'til aproned mothers call them home. Stand back and shield your eyes, there's a blinding, concussive light behind the glass doors to Hiroshima-Nagasaki Ltd. Floors in the 40s are still burning, a fine bone-white ash wafting from the offices of the Reich III Corporation, dust blowing down rutted corridors on 33, whole families in trucks moving west toward where the sun fails and falls each day into the Pacific, outside only the suicidal rain of stock traders leaping to their deaths. A speakeasy down two flights, jazz seeping molten under the door, just knock twice, at the bar a man sips a gin fizz, nervously pulls at the brim of a fedora, shell casings loose in the pocket of his pinstriped suit. A few floors below, hallways like trenches cut through mud, glint of bayonnets, gasmasks and whistles blowing, light fixtures explode illuminating a no-man's-land of twisted barbwire, bombcraters smoldering. Farther down, in the basement, all of the dead are being stacked like cordwood for stoking a great cast-iron boiler which better never breakdown, because by now no one's left alive who really knows how to fix the thing. The eyes of small animals shine beneath a wooden skid, roaches scatter under gaslight, growing dim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Feb 12 15:32:14 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) Message-ID: <731bb17a0702121232k10974dcdv577b8a2125bcf7e3@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of it on my blog, as well. I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. Please keep posting ideas as you get them. Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "1953," Jack Gilbert "1957," Marianne Boruch "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) "1969," R.S. Gwynn 1970-1979 "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost 2000 & Beyond "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Feb 12 15:48:10 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:48:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702121232k10974dcdv577b8a2125bcf7e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _1968_. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of it on my blog, as well. I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. Please keep posting ideas as you get them. Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "1953," Jack Gilbert "1957," Marianne Boruch "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) "1969," R.S. Gwynn 1970-1979 "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost 2000 & Beyond "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." -William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 12 15:50:35 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:50:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Banking Lesson, 1970 Your hero's welcome was cleaning floors at the local bank for minimum wage. A little joke to start the day, leaning on a pole, a train rumbling through a tunnel, a blue janitor's uniform from Sears replacing olive green. You were reading Stendhal, stuck in your back pocket like a confession. Each day, seven A.M., you began your tour sweeping tape across the computer room, everyone watching, you could tell. Knock first before checking the washrooms for paper stock, empty trash pails for executives. If they knew the murder in your head.... Lunch was a cafeteria filled with girls in six-inch heels and men in blue suits. You ached as you passed through the line. Back by the loading docks you smoked your wrath up, watched armored trucks bring the day's deposits from the branches. How far could you get, you wondered, Wednesdays mopping the main vault, stacks of bills rising in piles on the walls. How far? --Kevin Bowen Hal You Are Not Authorized To View This Page Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 12 16:21:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:21:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) References: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <007f01c74eeb$c1db3c00$1dde3052@ANNY> :-) we are all here typing word by word, and here comes Skip Fox with a thick Book! that is amazing... From: Skip Fox Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:48 PM Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _1968_. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of it on my blog, as well. I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. Please keep posting ideas as you get them. Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "1953," Jack Gilbert "1957," Marianne Boruch "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) "1969," R.S. Gwynn 1970-1979 "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost 2000 & Beyond "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." -William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Feb 12 16:36:06 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:36:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <731bb17a0702121232k10974dcdv577b8a2125bcf7e3@mail.gmail.com> <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702121336g496c8049g20a7f6fecb5a3ccd@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Skip. Jeff On 2/12/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _*1968*_. > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Newberry > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM > *To:* NewPoetry > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) > > > > Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of > it on my blog, as well. > > > > I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no > poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a > popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. > > > > Please keep posting ideas as you get them. > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > > The 20th Century in Poetry > > > > Pre-20th Century > > > > "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer > > > > 1900-1909 > > > > 1910-1919 > > > > "September 1913," W.B. Yeats > > "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin > > "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats > > "Since 1916," Margaret Walker > > "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden > > "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats > > > > 1920-1929 > > > > "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski > > "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy > > "1926," Weldon Kees > > > > 1930-1939 > > > > "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats > > "1933," Philip Levine > > "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo > > "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds > > "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa > > "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden > > > > 1940-1949 > > > > "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost > > > > 1950-1959 > > > > "1953," Jack Gilbert > > "1957," Marianne Boruch > > "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman > > > > 1960-1969 > > > > "1965," David Graham > > "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens > > "1966," Anny Ballardrini > > "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) > > "1969," R.S. Gwynn > > > > 1970-1979 > > > > "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch > > "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel > > "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern > > > > 1980-1989 > > > > "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer > > > > 1990-1999 > > > > "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker > > "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost > > > > 2000 & Beyond > > > > "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 12 16:53:05 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:53:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <007f01c74eeb$c1db3c00$1dde3052@ANNY> References: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007f01c74eeb$c1db3c00$1dde3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <23008241-FDE7-4603-9D5E-C84EA3380B67@earthlink.net> Well, Skip didn't type the book in, so it doesn't count. Hal "I loathe writing. On the other hand I'm a great believer in money.Often when I couldn't pay the grocery bill, Providence intervened and I don't mean my natal city, Providence, which can be counted on for nothing." --S. J. Perelman Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > :-) > we are all here typing word by word, and here comes Skip Fox with a > thick Book! > that is amazing... > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:48 PM > > Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _1968_. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wizcath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM > To: NewPoetry > Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) > > > Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping > track of it on my blog, as well. > > > I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny > that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of > course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI > looms large here. > > > Please keep posting ideas as you get them. > > > Jeff Newberry > > > The 20th Century in Poetry > > > Pre-20th Century > > > "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer > > > 1900-1909 > > > 1910-1919 > > > "September 1913," W.B. Yeats > > "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin > > "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats > > "Since 1916," Margaret Walker > > "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden > > "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats > > > 1920-1929 > > > "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski > > "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy > > "1926," Weldon Kees > > > 1930-1939 > > > "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats > > "1933," Philip Levine > > "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo > > "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds > > "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa > > "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden > > > 1940-1949 > > > "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost > > > 1950-1959 > > > "1953," Jack Gilbert > > "1957," Marianne Boruch > > "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman > > > 1960-1969 > > > "1965," David Graham > > "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens > > "1966," Anny Ballardrini > > "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) > > "1969," R.S. Gwynn > > > 1970-1979 > > > "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch > > "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel > > "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern > > > 1980-1989 > > > "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer > > > 1990-1999 > > > "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker > > "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost > > > 2000 & Beyond > > > "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Feb 12 17:25:54 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:25:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1968 In-Reply-To: <200702122106.l1CL6jt5021879@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <501286.14639.qm@web83101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Skip, there has to be an outrageous number of poems with 1968 in the title thinking of Black Sparrow not only is there Ed's poem there is E.P. in Venice: Remembering April 1968 and I smile by Paul Blackburn and at least 12 others found in another collection, the Journals Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 Mon Feb 12 17:05:26 2007 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:05:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 20th. Century in Poetry Message-ID: <45D09E97.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> The Merrill poem to which David referred a few days back is "Days of 1964." In the same volume, *Nights and Days*, he also has a poem called "1939." Others: Charles Olson, "May 20, 1959" and "May 31, 1961," in the Collected Poems; "Maximus, March 1961--I" and "II,"December, 1960," "February 3rd. 1966 High Tide," etc., etc.--there's a ton of Maximus poems that use the date as title, though that date very often has no particular resonance beyond marking the date of composition. Alan From suelin7184 Tue Feb 13 06:50:47 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:50:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams & things Message-ID: <000801c74f65$34160ce0$0301a8c0@LindaSue> Please remind me: Was it William Carlos Williams who said, "No meaning except in things"? Thanks, LSG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Tue Feb 13 06:53:18 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:53:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: <000f01c74f65$8e466de0$0301a8c0@LindaSue> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in things." Thanks & carry on, Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From letitia.trent Tue Feb 13 09:35:35 2007 From: letitia.trent (L Trent) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:35:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of 21 Stars Review Message-ID: The fourth issue of 21 Stars Review (http://sundress.net/21stars) is up! Featuring poetry and prose from Nina Alvarez, Arlene Ang, F.J. Bergmann, Michelle Bitting, C.L. Bledsoe, Mark DeCarteret, Jennifer Gravely, Len Joy, Amanda Laughtland, Duane Locke, Kyle Minor, Alison Shaffer, and Shellie Zacharia. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Feb 13 11:42:57 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:42:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 20th. Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <45D09E97.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <000001c74f8e$09f88220$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> The titles of journal entries of Paul Blackburn's _The Journals_, ed. Robert Kelly (e.g., "March 1971" & "Journal: December 11, 1969"). -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alan C Golding Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:05 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] 20th. Century in Poetry The Merrill poem to which David referred a few days back is "Days of 1964." In the same volume, *Nights and Days*, he also has a poem called "1939." Others: Charles Olson, "May 20, 1959" and "May 31, 1961," in the Collected Poems; "Maximus, March 1961--I" and "II,"December, 1960," "February 3rd. 1966 High Tide," etc., etc.--there's a ton of Maximus poems that use the date as title, though that date very often has no particular resonance beyond marking the date of composition. Alan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rog3r.day Tue Feb 13 11:50:33 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:50:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1959, Sisters Of Mercy My birthyear. On 2/12/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Speaking of '1979', that's another good one by Billy Corgan/Smashing > Pumpkins. > Finnegan > > In a message dated 2/11/2007 8:32:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: > > So 1980 in many ways can be a bogey-man for me! (Boo! > > > Or as Gil Scott Heron put it in his (why not call it a poem?) song lyric > from 1979--- > "it's 1980 and there ain't no way back to 1975 > much less 1969 > it's 1980 and there ain't nobody ask me no time lately > how we gonna open the door for 1984...." > > > what year are you IN now? (must choose at least 3....) > > > public time, private time....LIKE wordsworth's 1805 PRELUDE or the 1855 > LEAVES OF GRASS > (those dates might as well be the TITLE of the poem the way it's treated > TALKING HEADS'77 is no more of a true title than SEX PISTOLS'77 > > > ah the shell game of fashion in a maddening (Hyusmansesque) pallor (parlor) > oh, and pathos.... > the time in the composition, continuous peasant > 2002, by any other name, would smell as nasal > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From opus40-01 Tue Feb 13 12:05:19 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:05:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Feb 13 12:07:02 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:07:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> Message-ID: And Pound who said "the natural object is always the adequate symbol." ____________________________ On 2/13/07 11:05 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > >> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in >> things." >> >> Thanks & carry on, >> >> Jai Guru! >> --LSG >> ________________________________ >> Blessings, >> Linda Sue Grimes >> Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryseiler Tue Feb 13 12:59:57 2007 From: barryseiler (barry seiler) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:59:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702121336g496c8049g20a7f6fecb5a3ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff-- Do you know a book titled 1946, Matthew Graham, Galileo books. It has a poem titled "Days of 46. I have a poem titled 1960 if you want to have a look. Regards, Barry Seiler >From: "Jeff Newberry" >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:36:06 -0500 > >Thanks, Skip. > >Jeff > > >On 2/12/07, Skip Fox wrote: >> >> Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _*1968*_. >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>*From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: >>new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Newberry >>*Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM >>*To:* NewPoetry >>*Subject:* [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) >> >> >> >>Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of >>it on my blog, as well. >> >> >> >>I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no >>poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is >>a >>popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. >> >> >> >>Please keep posting ideas as you get them. >> >> >> >>Jeff Newberry >> >> >> >>The 20th Century in Poetry >> >> >> >>Pre-20th Century >> >> >> >>"From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer >> >> >> >>1900-1909 >> >> >> >>1910-1919 >> >> >> >>"September 1913," W.B. Yeats >> >>"MCMXIV," Philip Larkin >> >>"Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats >> >>"Since 1916," Margaret Walker >> >>"1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden >> >>"Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats >> >> >> >>1920-1929 >> >> >> >>"Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski >> >>"Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy >> >>"1926," Weldon Kees >> >> >> >>1930-1939 >> >> >> >>"Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats >> >>"1933," Philip Levine >> >>"Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo >> >>"I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds >> >>"1938," Yusef Komunyakaa >> >>"September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden >> >> >> >>1940-1949 >> >> >> >>"U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost >> >> >> >>1950-1959 >> >> >> >>"1953," Jack Gilbert >> >>"1957," Marianne Boruch >> >>"Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman >> >> >> >>1960-1969 >> >> >> >>"1965," David Graham >> >>"Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens >> >>"1966," Anny Ballardrini >> >>"1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) >> >>"1969," R.S. Gwynn >> >> >> >>1970-1979 >> >> >> >>"Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch >> >>"1976," Jeffrey McDaniel >> >>"Days of 1978," Gerald Stern >> >> >> >>1980-1989 >> >> >> >>"Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer >> >> >> >>1990-1999 >> >> >> >>"Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker >> >>"It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost >> >> >> >>2000 & Beyond >> >> >> >>"Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan >> >> >> >>-- >>"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >>recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." >>?William Faulkner, Light in August >> >> >>http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- >"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >recollects, >longer than knowing even wonders." >?William Faulkner, Light in August > > >http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us From barry.spacks Tue Feb 13 13:33:27 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:33:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: terse Williams In-Reply-To: <200702131700.l1DH05t5024001@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702131700.l1DH05t5024001@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <944E9AF6-6FC4-4602-A087-A7523782757F@verizon.net> > "Linda Sue Grimes" wrote: > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas > except in things." > I remember "but" as the fulcrum (?) "No ideas but in things." Barry From halvard Tue Feb 13 13:45:33 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> References: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> Message-ID: And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the > thing itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas > except in things." > > Thanks & carry on, > > Jai Guru! > --LSG > ________________________________ > Blessings, > Linda Sue Grimes > Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Feb 13 14:06:33 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:06:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I've been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural (beside the sound, of course) in "No ideas but it things." But I haven't come to much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said you can think of one thing without language, but the second you think of two things the ideas inevitably flow. Any ideas (thick with "things")? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself." On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in things." Thanks & carry on, Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 13 14:12:13 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:12:13 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Some character in an O'Hara novel (10 North Frederick, as I recall) once said, "Thinking stinks." Hal "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." --Marshall McLuhan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I?ve been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural > (beside the sound, of course) in ?No ideas but it things.? But I > haven?t come to much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said > you can think of one thing without language, but the second you > think of two things the ideas inevitably flow. > > > Any ideas (thick with ?things?)? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind > > > And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? > > > Hal > > > Actual Product May Vary from Photos > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > > > > > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the > thing itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas > except in things." > > > Thanks & carry on, > > > Jai Guru! > --LSG > ________________________________ > Blessings, > Linda Sue Grimes > Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lattaj Tue Feb 13 14:29:38 2007 From: lattaj (John Latta) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:29:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: References: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Frank O'Hara, of course: "I'm not saying that I don't have practically the most lofty ideas of anyone writing today, but what difference does that make? they're just ideas. The only good thing about it is that when I get lofty enough I've stopped thinking and that's when refreshment arrives." John http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Some character in an O'Hara novel (10 North Frederick, as I recall) > once said, "Thinking stinks." > > Hal > > "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." > --Marshall McLuhan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> I?ve been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural (beside >> the sound, of course) in ?No ideas but it things.? But I haven?t come to >> much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said you can think of one >> thing without language, but the second you think of two things the ideas >> inevitably flow. >> >> >> Any ideas (thick with ?things?)? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind >> >> >> And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> Actual Product May Vary from Photos >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> halvard at earthlink.net >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: >> >> >> >> >> And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing >> itself." >> >> >> >> On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: >> >> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in >> things." >> >> >> Thanks & carry on, >> >> >> Jai Guru! >> --LSG >> ________________________________ >> Blessings, >> Linda Sue Grimes >> Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Tue Feb 13 14:33:59 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:33:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c74fa5$ee6b5c40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Diptych bumpersticker for the radical intuitionalists: "First thought . . . already too late" -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Some character in an O'Hara novel (10 North Frederick, as I recall) once said, "Thinking stinks." Hal "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." --Marshall McLuhan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: I've been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural (beside the sound, of course) in "No ideas but it things." But I haven't come to much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said you can think of one thing without language, but the second you think of two things the ideas inevitably flow. Any ideas (thick with "things")? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself." On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in things." Thanks & carry on, Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 13 15:18:59 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:18:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Don't miss this Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRjVeRbhtRU CLO ED FOR REN VATION Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Feb 13 16:03:44 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:03:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: References: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60702131303t798a6f5dha97b397a66a82532@mail.gmail.com> Or "Nothing's about the thong but the thong itself"? - Jim On 2/13/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? > > Hal > > > Actual Product May Vary from Photos > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing > itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > > > > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in > things." > > Thanks & carry on, > > Jai Guru! > --LSG > ________________________________ > Blessings, > Linda Sue Grimes > Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From suelin7184 Tue Feb 13 16:24:32 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:24:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: terse Williams References: <200702131700.l1DH05t5024001@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <944E9AF6-6FC4-4602-A087-A7523782757F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002801c74fb5$5aeb6680$0301a8c0@LindaSue> Yes that's right. It sounds better too. LSG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Spacks" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:33 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: terse Williams > >> "Linda Sue Grimes" wrote: > >> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas >> except in things." >> > I remember "but" as the fulcrum (?) "No ideas but in things." > > Barry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Tue Feb 13 17:29:26 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:29:26 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: In a message dated 2/13/2007 4:04:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: Nothing's about the thong but the thong itself"? "Nothing abuts the thong but the butt itself," I think you meant. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Feb 13 17:40:14 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:40:14 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Message-ID: In a message dated 2/12/2007 6:48:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: Jim, you done it. I realize that I forgot to name you, Tad, as among the crew of helpers,,,,how could I? Thanks for keeping it going. Jim Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Feb 13 18:37:40 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:37:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... Message-ID: _http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear_ (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear) THE MONEYED MUSE What can two hundred million dollars do for poetry? by DANA GOODYEAR Issue of 2007-02-19 Posted 2007-02-12 Michael Lewis, a journalist and the author of ?Liar?s Poker? and ? Moneyball,? appeared in the magazine Poetry for the first time in the summer of 2005, with a satirical piece called ?How to Make a Killing from Poetry: A Six Point Plan of Attack.? It offered its advice in bullet-point businessese: ?1) Think Positive. Nobody likes a whiner. And poets always seem to be harping on the negative. . . . 2) Take Your New Positive Attitude and Direct It Towards the Paying Customer. The customer is your friend. Your typical poem really doesn ?t seem to pay much attention to the living retail customer. . . . 3) Think About Your Core Message. Your average reader might like a bit of fancy writing, but at the end of the day he will always ask himself: what?s my takeaway? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Tue Feb 13 19:55:35 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:55:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: <1646.1171414535@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Tue Feb 13 19:58:00 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:58:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: <1699.1171414680@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Tue Feb 13 20:09:47 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:09:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Message-ID: <1956.1171415387@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Feb 13 20:09:47 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:09:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60702131709i58d319ebn53a107167da39c5a@mail.gmail.com> Oh dank you dank you dank you for taking dis in da spirit in which it was scent. - Jim On 2/13/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/13/2007 4:04:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, > cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: > Nothing's about the thong but the thong itself"? > > "Nothing abuts the thong but the butt itself," I think you meant. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From tad Tue Feb 13 21:11:28 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:11:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Constance Urdang Message-ID: <007a01c74fdd$704734f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> The Poetry Foundation's website today features Constance Urdang, a wonderful poet who doesn't always get her due. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/ for the homepage, http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poet.html?id=7014 for their Urdang Archive. Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima Tue Feb 13 22:03:00 2007 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:03:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <752728.5743.qm@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS ROVA: Orkestrova plays Coltrane My Angie Dickinson by Michael Magee (a classic of flarf) Concerning the health of Frank Sherlock Listening to the vowels in the poetry of Rae Armantrout Unveiling / Marianne Moore by John Taggart The spiritual poetics of Rae Armantrout on reaching 1,000,000 visits on this blog Next Life by Rae Armantrout Tell them Molly sent you Volver ??? a film with women in every major role May Day ??? Robert Kelly and the question of poems vs. poetry Kenny Goldsmith writes a blog on uncreative writing for Poetry Magazine! Babel and the ensemble film of globalization Experimental Form and Issues of Accessibility (Susanne Dyckman, Rusty Morrison, Maxine Chernoff, Paul Hoover, and Jaime Robles) Daisy Fried should win the National Book Critics Circle Award by acclamation http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 14 05:13:20 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:13:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: <1956.1171415387@opus40.org> Message-ID: <002501c75020$c173dd40$4ba93252@ANNY> Never or evern then never and nor ever than never never never :-) right Jim? ----- Original Message ----- From: opus40-01 at opus40.org To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old I was wondering if this was a subtle way of telling me I'd been fired. On Tue Feb 13 17:40 , JforJames at aol.com sent: In a message dated 2/12/2007 6:48:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: Jim, you done it. I realize that I forgot to name you, Tad, as among the crew of helpers,,,,how could I? Thanks for keeping it going. Jim Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Feb 14 09:28:00 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:28:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Firing Tad/Monson In-Reply-To: <002501c75020$c173dd40$4ba93252@ANNY> References: <1956.1171415387@opus40.org> <002501c75020$c173dd40$4ba93252@ANNY> Message-ID: <5D570717-C79C-4F61-8C3F-F05F0F2DE487@ripon.edu> Yup. Volunteers can quit, but it's hard to fire us! And on an entirely unrelated note, a "new" poet has just appeared on my radar screen, courtesy of a student: Ander Monson. Anyone familiar with his work? He just won the Graywolf nonfiction prize with a book of essays called *Neck Deep*; and he's also published fiction. His poetry collection is titled *Vacationland*, and is published by Tupelo. I gather that there are multiple title poems for the book. Here's one: VACATIONLAND This place, this bearer of the chilly winter burst, the white-out everywhere and flurry, the not-in-the-terms-of-Dairy-Queen, this blizzard with a lowercase b, far from commercial in its constancy, its threat, impact, and our recovery: always from it. We are always re-shoveling out the driveways and panking down the snow or breaking up the ice with handmade iron spears or spokes wrested from bikes that have succumbed at last to rust. This is my vacationland, my very own Misery Bay, my dredge, my lighthouses, my vanishing animal tracks in snow. Everyone who is not from here is not from here, and that is all there is to say. Everyone from here is still from here regardless of where they are or where they end. White light filtering through snow like dust. There is always light coming down like a donation from God--a little perk to get us through the winter that is constantly upon us. This light lights up our faces, lights up the faces of the frozen dead as seen on TV from Canada. This vacationland, this motel open year-round, is now a Best Western and that is good, I guess. This vacationland, this Michigan, my Michigan, is no destination, no getaway for us, those who are always from. We have no destinations. We have no way to get away from her, from here, to get away from romantic winter getaways and those who?ve come to get away from dull bombs of city lives. We cannot get away from from and from the doldrum winter silent burn. We might as well be stone--agates, mottled trifles, appearing periodically on the beach to be taken home, to be put with other pretty rocks and bits of lake glass in jars. We are meant for your mantel and for the light that will find us there. We might as well be the kind of rock that passes for rock on the radio up here, meaning Foreigner and Journey and nothing that could be ever meaningful again because it has been subsumed by soft-rock crap-rock, classic-rock, by radio, by frequency modulated energy in air, by the tyranny of awful playlists and shitty DJs and no hope of getting a decent song played for us to be indifferent to at prom. We are what is left. We are drift. I guess this is a sort of manifesto. --Ander Monson On Feb 14, 2007, at 4:13 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Never or evern then never and nor ever than never never never > :-) > > right Jim? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: opus40-01 at opus40.org > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 2:09 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old > > I was wondering if this was a subtle way of telling me I'd been fired. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse Wed Feb 14 10:15:30 2007 From: queenmouse (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:15:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good article. I particularly like the quote from my old classmate, Joel Brower. Couldn't have said this better myself: Joel Brouwer, a poet reviewing a collection in the Times Book Review in December, wrote, "Contemporary poetry's great good fortune (despite contrary claims from certain hand-wringers mad to see poems affixed to every slot-machine, taxi stand and flowerpot in the land) is that it has no mass market, and so no call to pander." I have come to realize that of the things that makes poetry valuable to me is precisely that it *isn't* a commodity that can be harnessed up to make money. It is therefore free to do a different kind of work. Suzanne On 2/13/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear > > THE MONEYED MUSE > What can two hundred million dollars do for poetry? > by DANA GOODYEAR > Issue of 2007-02-19 > Posted 2007-02-12 > > > Michael Lewis, a journalist and the author of "Liar's Poker" and > "Moneyball," appeared in the magazine Poetry for the first time in the > summer of 2005, with a satirical piece called "How to Make a Killing from > Poetry: A Six Point Plan of Attack." It offered its advice in bullet-point > businessese: "1) Think Positive. Nobody likes a whiner. And poets always > seem to be harping on the negative. . . . 2) Take Your New Positive Attitude > and Direct It Towards the Paying Customer. The customer is your friend. Your > typical poem really doesn't seem to pay much attention to the living retail > customer. . . . 3) Think About Your Core Message. Your average reader might > like a bit of fancy writing, but at the end of the day he will always ask > himself: what's my takeaway? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do not know the way." Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Wed Feb 14 10:29:17 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:29:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze Message-ID: <008401c7504c$e49a4300$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> This is embarrassing, but I've had a total brain freeze. What do you call it in a poem when you start a whole buncha lines with the same thing? Litany...but there's another term, right? Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Feb 14 10:32:29 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:32:29 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze In-Reply-To: <008401c7504c$e49a4300$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <008401c7504c$e49a4300$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: You thinking of anaphora? On Feb 14, 2007, at 9:29 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > This is embarrassing, but I've had a total brain freeze. What do > you call it in a poem when you start a whole buncha lines with the > same thing? Litany...but there's another term, right? > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Feb 14 10:53:50 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:53:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze Message-ID: In a message dated 2/14/2007 9:32:09 AM Central Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > You thinking of anaphora? > > Your memory's so good it'll probably epistrophe Tad off. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Wed Feb 14 11:36:41 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:36:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze References: <008401c7504c$e49a4300$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <009301c75056$4ea6c3f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Well, my problem was, I wasn't thinking at all. But if I had been, that would have been it. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze You thinking of anaphora? On Feb 14, 2007, at 9:29 AM, TheOldMole wrote: This is embarrassing, but I've had a total brain freeze. What do you call it in a poem when you start a whole buncha lines with the same thing? Litany...but there's another term, right? Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Wed Feb 14 12:04:55 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:04:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze In-Reply-To: <008401c7504c$e49a4300$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <008401c7504c$e49a4300$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <9D89ECBF-7DFF-4EB5-A15B-051702A47D11@earthlink.net> It's called "starting a whole buncha lines with the same thing." Hal "[News is] what somebody doesn't want you to know. All the rest is advertising." --Dan Rather Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 14, 2007, at 9:29 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > This is embarrassing, but I've had a total brain freeze. What do > you call it in a poem when you start a whole buncha lines with the > same thing? Litany...but there's another term, right? > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Wed Feb 14 12:07:27 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:07:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze References: Message-ID: <00b901c7505a$9b1ee380$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Donna Casinghino/Jackson, a sometime contributor to this list, and I, engaged in a seduction-on-paper-only, using rhetoric. A correspondence in ballades between a satyric professor and a virtuous student, each exchange using a different rhetorical device. It was pretty good, too. We started with acyron, and had gotten as far as horismus before we abandoned it, at least temporarily. I'm sure we'll get back to it at some point. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Brain Freeze In a message dated 2/14/2007 9:32:09 AM Central Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: You thinking of anaphora? Your memory's so good it'll probably epistrophe Tad off. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran Wed Feb 14 14:18:17 2007 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:18:17 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0702141118v78d284fcy7ec0911e903052a@mail.gmail.com> That was brilliantly stated. Time to make that my email signature quote! On 2/14/07, Suzanne Burns wrote: > > Good article. I particularly like the quote from my old classmate, Joel > Brower. Couldn't have said this better myself: > > Joel Brouwer, a poet reviewing a collection in the Times Book Review in > December, wrote, "Contemporary poetry's great good fortune (despite contrary > claims from certain hand-wringers mad to see poems affixed to every > slot-machine, taxi stand and flowerpot in the land) is that it has no mass > market, and so no call to pander." > > I have come to realize that of the things that makes poetry valuable to me > is precisely that it *isn't* a commodity that can be harnessed up to make > money. It is therefore free to do a different kind of work. > > > Suzanne > > > > > On 2/13/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear > > > > THE MONEYED MUSE > > What can two hundred million dollars do for poetry? > > by DANA GOODYEAR > > Issue of 2007-02-19 > > Posted 2007-02-12 > > > > > > Michael Lewis, a journalist and the author of "Liar's Poker" and > > "Moneyball," appeared in the magazine Poetry for the first time in the > > summer of 2005, with a satirical piece called "How to Make a Killing from > > Poetry: A Six Point Plan of Attack." It offered its advice in bullet-point > > businessese: "1) Think Positive. Nobody likes a whiner. And poets always > > seem to be harping on the negative. . . . 2) Take Your New Positive Attitude > > and Direct It Towards the Paying Customer. The customer is your friend. Your > > typical poem really doesn't seem to pay much attention to the living retail > > customer. . . . 3) Think About Your Core Message. Your average reader might > > like a bit of fancy writing, but at the end of the day he will always ask > > himself: what's my takeaway? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do not know the way." > > Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. ? Not to mention that most terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude." - Walter Benjamin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Feb 14 14:39:24 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:39:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0702141118v78d284fcy7ec0911e903052a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Joel Brouwer is one of the many poets who is on my radar but not yet on my bookshelf. Either of the Suzannes: care to recommend someplace I should start reading him? On 2/14/07 1:18 PM, "Suzanne Baran" wrote: >> Joel Brouwer ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran Wed Feb 14 14:54:46 2007 From: screwzbaran (Suzanne Baran) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:54:46 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... In-Reply-To: References: <2d5ffa0b0702141118v78d284fcy7ec0911e903052a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0702141154ldb86c85h6a82e830f7820df0@mail.gmail.com> http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/18/brouwer18.html http://www.thebluemoon.com/poetry/jbrouwer.shtml http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=%20179290 On 2/14/07, David Graham wrote: > > Joel Brouwer is one of the many poets who *is* on my radar but not yet on > my bookshelf. Either of the Suzannes: care to recommend someplace I should > start reading him? > > > On 2/14/07 1:18 PM, "Suzanne Baran" wrote: > > Joel Brouwer > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of illuminati just as much as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. ? Not to mention that most terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in solitude." - Walter Benjamin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 14 15:51:51 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:51:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought Message-ID: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> some of the points are quite interesting: > Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > > > > TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !! > > First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while > they > were pregnant. > > They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't > get > tested for diabetes. > > Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs > covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > > We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when > we > rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took > hitchhiking > > As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster > seats, seat belts or air bags. > > Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat. > > We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. > > We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE > actually died from this. > > We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid made with > sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > > We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were > back > when the streetlights came on. > > No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. > > We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride > down > the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the > bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. > > We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, > no > 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or > CD's, > no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . WE HAD > FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > > We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no > lawsuits from these accidents. > > We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us > forever. > > We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks > and > tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put > out > very many eyes. > > We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or > rang > the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > > Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't > had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! > > The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. > They > actually sided with the law! > > These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem > solvers and inventors ever! > > The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. > > We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO > DEAL WITH IT ALL! > > If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > > You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up > as > kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our lives > for our own good > > And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how > brave > (and lucky) their parents were. > > Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't > it?! > From halvard Wed Feb 14 16:10:27 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:10:27 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> References: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <741B2EA2-E3CB-4815-8E31-D3F887B9932B@earthlink.net> Hmm, I'd rather swap thought for food than food for thought. Hal "Go ahead and look for God, but tie up your camel first." --Sufi proverb Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > some of the points are quite interesting: > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! >> >> >> >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !! >> >> First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank >> while they >> were pregnant. >> >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and >> didn't get >> tested for diabetes. >> >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in >> baby cribs >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. >> >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets >> and when we >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took >> hitchhiking >> >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, >> booster >> seats, seat belts or air bags. >> >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special >> treat. >> >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. >> >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO >> ONE >> actually died from this. >> >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid >> made with >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE >> PLAYING! >> >> We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we >> were back >> when the streetlights came on. >> >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. >> >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then >> ride down >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running >> into the >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. >> >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games >> at all, no >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound >> or CD's, >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . >> WE HAD >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! >> >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there >> were no >> lawsuits from these accidents. >> >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not >> live in us >> forever. >> >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with >> sticks and >> tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did >> not put out >> very many eyes. >> >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the >> door or rang >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! >> >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those >> who didn't >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! >> >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was >> unheard of. They >> actually sided with the law! >> >> These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem >> solvers and inventors ever! >> >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. >> >> We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we >> learned HOW TO >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! >> >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! >> >> You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to >> grow up as >> kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of >> our lives >> for our own good >> >> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know >> how brave >> (and lucky) their parents were. >> >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, >> doesn't it?! >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 14 16:19:40 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:19:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] answer to Hal Message-ID: <012501c7507d$d6ba82f0$1eae3252@ANNY> just posted to my blog: "Suprematism is the rediscovery of pure art that, in the course of time, had become obscured by the accumulation of 'things'." - Kasimir Malevich, The Non-Objective World (Supremus No. 58) 1916; Oil on canvas, 79.5 x 70.5 cm (31 1/4 x 27 3/4 in); State Russian Museum, St. Petersburg -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/14/2007 10:16:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Wed Feb 14 16:22:06 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:22:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: 00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY Message-ID: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> We got (gasp) spanked, too. --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" To: "New Poetry" Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > some of the points are quite interesting: > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! >> >> >> >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !! >> >> First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while >> they >> were pregnant. >> >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't >> get >> tested for diabetes. >> >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. >> >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when >> we >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took >> hitchhiking >> >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster >> seats, seat belts or air bags. >> >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat. >> >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. >> >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE >> actually died from this. >> >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid made with >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! >> >> We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were >> back >> when the streetlights came on. >> >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. >> >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride >> down >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. >> >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, >> no >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or >> CD's, >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . WE HAD >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! >> >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no >> lawsuits from these accidents. >> >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in >> us >> forever. >> >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks >> and >> tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put >> out >> very many eyes. >> >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or >> rang >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! >> >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who >> didn't >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! >> >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. >> They >> actually sided with the law! >> >> These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem >> solvers and inventors ever! >> >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. >> >> We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW >> TO >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! >> >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! >> >> You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up >> as >> kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our >> lives >> for our own good >> >> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how >> brave >> (and lucky) their parents were. >> >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't >> it?! >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jeff.newberry Wed Feb 14 16:52:41 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:52:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> References: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702141352h61cfa64atb80e838ef6833eed@mail.gmail.com> I might change that to "Those Born between 1930 & 1969" For example: I distinctly remember childproof medicine bottles from my years as a kid. I was born in 74 and came of age between 86 & 91, I'd guess. We had video games--and lots: Atari 2600, Collecovision, PONG systems, Intellivision, not to mention the first 16-bit Nintendo and later the Nintendo 64. Riding in the back of a truck was illegal where I grew up (on the Northwest Florida coast). I had some friends get ticketed in high school for breaking this law. We certainly had CDs. I remember a dude working the concession stand at a high school football game, a guy in my grade (whose name was Brian, I think). He had the very first CD player I ever saw, a portable job he carrried under his jacket. It was about a foot long & flat. He wore it strapped over his shoulder and listened to the CD with a set of headphones. He showed me the album--it was Poison's *Look What the Cat Drug In*. I was into tapes & had crates of them, having opened several Columbia House accounts in my name, my brother's name, my dog's name, and my dad's name. (Odd stray thought--the first CD I remember purchasing was Stevie Ray Vaughan's posthumous *The Sky is Crying.*) The first computer I remember was a Tandy 1000 in 1990. My brother & I saved some extra money from our jobs at the grocery store & put a second 3 1/2 disk drive in it. I remember trying to play games on it was a hassle because the damn thing kept loading & loading & loading. The computer didn't have a fan & often froze up. I fancied myself a "novelist" at 16 & often wrote hours into the night. Often, the computer would freeze before I saved my work--I lost quite a lot of crappy prose that way. But, for the most part, the rest of it lines up with my childhood. Thanks for posting this Anny. Jeff Newberry On 2/14/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > > > > > > > > TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !! > > > > First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while > > they > > were pregnant. > > > > They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't > > get > > tested for diabetes. > > > > Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby > cribs > > covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > > > > We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and > when > > we > > rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took > > hitchhiking > > > > As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster > > seats, seat belts or air bags. > > > > Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special > treat. > > > > We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. > > > > We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE > > actually died from this. > > > > We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid made > with > > sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > > > > We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were > > back > > when the streetlights came on. > > > > No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. > > > > We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride > > down > > the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the > > bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. > > > > We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at > all, > > no > > 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or > > CD's, > > no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . WE > HAD > > FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > > > > We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no > > lawsuits from these accidents. > > > > We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in > us > > forever. > > > > We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks > > and > > tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put > > out > > very many eyes. > > > > We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or > > rang > > the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > > > > Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who > didn't > > had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! > > > > The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. > > They > > actually sided with the law! > > > > These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem > > solvers and inventors ever! > > > > The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. > > > > We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW > TO > > DEAL WITH IT ALL! > > > > If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > > > > You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow > up > > as > > kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our > lives > > for our own good > > > > And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how > > brave > > (and lucky) their parents were. > > > > Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't > > it?! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From debra Wed Feb 14 20:03:30 2007 From: debra (Debra Dicembre) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:03:30 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> <741B2EA2-E3CB-4815-8E31-D3F887B9932B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002801c7509d$25b58890$0301010a@galaxy> I thought that was ,'Trust in God but tie up your camel'. Or is it , 'Trust in God and tie up your camel'? DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > Hmm, I'd rather swap thought for food than > food for thought. > > Hal > > "Go ahead and look for God, but > tie up your camel first." > --Sufi proverb > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > >> > >> > >> > >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !! > >> > >> First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank > >> while they > >> were pregnant. > >> > >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and > >> didn't get > >> tested for diabetes. > >> > >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in > >> baby cribs > >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > >> > >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets > >> and when we > >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took > >> hitchhiking > >> > >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, > >> booster > >> seats, seat belts or air bags. > >> > >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special > >> treat. > >> > >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. > >> > >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO > >> ONE > >> actually died from this. > >> > >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid > >> made with > >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE > >> PLAYING! > >> > >> We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we > >> were back > >> when the streetlights came on. > >> > >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. > >> > >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then > >> ride down > >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running > >> into the > >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. > >> > >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games > >> at all, no > >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound > >> or CD's, > >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . > >> WE HAD > >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > >> > >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there > >> were no > >> lawsuits from these accidents. > >> > >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not > >> live in us > >> forever. > >> > >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with > >> sticks and > >> tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did > >> not put out > >> very many eyes. > >> > >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the > >> door or rang > >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > >> > >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those > >> who didn't > >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! > >> > >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was > >> unheard of. They > >> actually sided with the law! > >> > >> These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem > >> solvers and inventors ever! > >> > >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. > >> > >> We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we > >> learned HOW TO > >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > >> > >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > >> > >> You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to > >> grow up as > >> kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of > >> our lives > >> for our own good > >> > >> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know > >> how brave > >> (and lucky) their parents were. > >> > >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, > >> doesn't it?! > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard Wed Feb 14 21:35:35 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:35:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <002801c7509d$25b58890$0301010a@galaxy> References: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252@ANNY> <741B2EA2-E3CB-4815-8E31-D3F887B9932B@earthlink.net> <002801c7509d$25b58890$0301010a@galaxy> Message-ID: Well, mine was as quoted. Yours I can't say anything about. Hal Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Debra Dicembre wrote: > I thought that was ,'Trust in God but tie up your camel'. > Or is it , 'Trust in God and tie up your camel'? > DD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Halvard Johnson" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:10 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > >> Hmm, I'd rather swap thought for food than >> food for thought. >> >> Hal >> >> "Go ahead and look for God, but >> tie up your camel first." >> --Sufi proverb >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at gmail.com >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >>> some of the points are quite interesting: >>> >>> >>>> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and >>>> 70's !! >>>> >>>> First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank >>>> while they >>>> were pregnant. >>>> >>>> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and >>>> didn't get >>>> tested for diabetes. >>>> >>>> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in >>>> baby cribs >>>> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. >>>> >>>> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets >>>> and when we >>>> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we >>>> took >>>> hitchhiking >>>> >>>> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, >>>> booster >>>> seats, seat belts or air bags. >>>> >>>> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special >>>> treat. >>>> >>>> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. >>>> >>>> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO >>>> ONE >>>> actually died from this. >>>> >>>> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid >>>> made with >>>> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE >>>> PLAYING! >>>> >>>> We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we >>>> were back >>>> when the streetlights came on. >>>> >>>> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. >>>> >>>> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then >>>> ride down >>>> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running >>>> into the >>>> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. >>>> >>>> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games >>>> at all, no >>>> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound >>>> or CD's, >>>> no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . >>>> WE HAD >>>> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! >>>> >>>> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there >>>> were no >>>> lawsuits from these accidents. >>>> >>>> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not >>>> live in us >>>> forever. >>>> >>>> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with >>>> sticks and >>>> tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did >>>> not put out >>>> very many eyes. >>>> >>>> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the >>>> door or rang >>>> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! >>>> >>>> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those >>>> who didn't >>>> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! >>>> >>>> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was >>>> unheard of. They >>>> actually sided with the law! >>>> >>>> These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, >>>> problem >>>> solvers and inventors ever! >>>> >>>> The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new >>>> ideas. >>>> >>>> We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we >>>> learned HOW TO >>>> DEAL WITH IT ALL! >>>> >>>> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! >>>> >>>> You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to >>>> grow up as >>>> kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of >>>> our lives >>>> for our own good >>>> >>>> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know >>>> how brave >>>> (and lucky) their parents were. >>>> >>>> Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, >>>> doesn't it?! >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rog3r.day Thu Feb 15 06:28:38 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:28:38 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: and look how well you turned out ... On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > We got (gasp) spanked, too. > > --Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anny Ballardini" > To: "New Poetry" > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:51 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > >> > >> > >> > >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's !! > >> > >> First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while > >> they > >> were pregnant. > >> > >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't > >> get > >> tested for diabetes. > >> > >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs > >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > >> > >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when > >> we > >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took > >> hitchhiking > >> > >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster > >> seats, seat belts or air bags. > >> > >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat. > >> > >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. > >> > >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE > >> actually died from this. > >> > >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank kool aid made with > >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > >> > >> We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were > >> back > >> when the streetlights came on. > >> > >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. > >> > >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride > >> down > >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the > >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. > >> > >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, > >> no > >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or > >> CD's, > >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms . WE HAD > >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > >> > >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no > >> lawsuits from these accidents. > >> > >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in > >> us > >> forever. > >> > >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks > >> and > >> tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put > >> out > >> very many eyes. > >> > >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or > >> rang > >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > >> > >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who > >> didn't > >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that! > >> > >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. > >> They > >> actually sided with the law! > >> > >> These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem > >> solvers and inventors ever! > >> > >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. > >> > >> We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW > >> TO > >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > >> > >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > >> > >> You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up > >> as > >> kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our > >> lives > >> for our own good > >> > >> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how > >> brave > >> (and lucky) their parents were. > >> > >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't > >> it?! > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 06:42:05 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:42:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this list - but in that case I would be less straightforward: I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a youngster born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your never-ending cynicism? From: "Roger Day" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > and look how well you turned out ... > > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. >> >> --Bob >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 07:40:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:40:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] congrats to Bob Grumman Message-ID: <001301c750fe$70900370$8bd83052@ANNY> see here: http://poetry.about.com/b/a/157902.htm section of the following: http://poetry.about.com/od/poems/a/concretepoetry.htm?nl=1 cheers, Anny Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 07:43:11 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:43:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] also Message-ID: <001a01c750fe$da5c5d30$8bd83052@ANNY> of interest see here by Bob Holman: http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/blscrolly.htm follow the directions! Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Thu Feb 15 08:29:51 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:29:51 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> Message-ID: Let me be straightforward in return. 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. Roger On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this list - > but in that case I would be less straightforward: > I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a youngster > born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your never-ending > cynicism? > > > From: "Roger Day" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > > > and look how well you turned out ... > > > > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> > >> --Bob > >> > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 09:51:03 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:51:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that old that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become so nice... From: "Roger Day" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > Let me be straightforward in return. > > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. > > Roger > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this >> list - >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a >> youngster >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your >> never-ending >> cynicism? >> >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... >> > >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. >> >> >> >> --Bob From rog3r.day Thu Feb 15 10:22:27 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:27 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> Message-ID: I try my best. I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? That said, this has become way OT. Roger On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that old > that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become so > nice... > > From: "Roger Day" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > > > > Let me be straightforward in return. > > > > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As > > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be > > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. > > > > Roger > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> > >> > >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this > >> list - > >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: > >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a > >> youngster > >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your > >> never-ending > >> cynicism? > >> > >> > >> From: "Roger Day" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > >> > >> > and look how well you turned out ... > >> > > >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> >> > >> >> --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From tad Thu Feb 15 10:34:43 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:34:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY><005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> Message-ID: <007201c75116$d0a5b6c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> "We should," not "We are." This is an injunction to the rest of us NewPos. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought >I try my best. > > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? > > That said, this has become way OT. > > Roger > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that old >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become so >> nice... >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM >> >> >> > Let me be straightforward in return. >> > >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. >> > >> > Roger >> > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this >> >> list - >> >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a >> >> youngster >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your >> >> never-ending >> >> cynicism? >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM >> >> >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... >> >> > >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. >> >> >> >> >> >> --Bob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From rog3r.day Thu Feb 15 10:54:05 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:54:05 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <007201c75116$d0a5b6c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> <007201c75116$d0a5b6c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: That's your interpretation, and not one that I share. Roger On 2/15/07, TheOldMole wrote: > "We should," not "We are." This is an injunction to the rest of us NewPos. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Day" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > >I try my best. > > > > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or > > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? > > > > That said, this has become way OT. > > > > Roger > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that old > >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become so > >> nice... > >> > >> From: "Roger Day" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > >> > >> > >> > Let me be straightforward in return. > >> > > >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As > >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be > >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. > >> > > >> > Roger > >> > > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this > >> >> list - > >> >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: > >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a > >> >> youngster > >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your > >> >> never-ending > >> >> cynicism? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: "Roger Day" > >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > >> >> > >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... > >> >> > > >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> --Bob > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 11:34:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:34:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Frank's case Message-ID: <001701c7511f$365821d0$a5aa3452@ANNY> In Old Files, Fading Hopes of Anne Frank's Family http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/15/arts/15otto.html?hp&ex=1171602000&en=8562a7fbeab56978&ei=5094&partner=homepage On April 30, 1941, just days after a Gestapo courier may have threatened to denounce Anne Frank's father, Otto, to the Nazis, he wrote to his close college friend Nathan Straus Jr. begging for help in getting his family out of Amsterdam and into America. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 11:40:10 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:40:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY><005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> Message-ID: <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> Thank you Tad. That was a Royal We, that is the way we always speak, at restaurants when we order they always ask me if we are waiting for somebody, we kindly say no, and continue, at bars bartenders look around, then ask me the same question.. you think we should say I? In my faith no b/c's, we absolutely have no time for chats, do not know if others have, not we, sincerestly, WE From: "Roger Day" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:22 PM >I try my best. > > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? > > That said, this has become way OT. > > Roger > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that old >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become so >> nice... >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM >> >> >> > Let me be straightforward in return. >> > >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. >> > >> > Roger >> > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this >> >> list - >> >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a >> >> youngster >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your >> >> never-ending >> >> cynicism? >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM >> >> >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... >> >> > >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. >> >> >> >> >> >> --Bob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 11:52:16 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:52:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Hello Ann. Goodbye Emmett. Message-ID: <004001c75121$a7372c50$a5aa3452@ANNY> Thought I would like to share this ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne Tardos To: annetardos at gmail.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: Hello Ann. Goodbye Emmett. Emmett Williams, 1925-2007 photo: Anne Tardos, Venice, 1990 ____________________ Anne Tardos 42 N. Moore St. New York, NY 10013 www.annetardos.com 212-226-3346 917-660-5552 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 20183 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rog3r.day Thu Feb 15 12:01:47 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 17:01:47 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> Message-ID: It's good to know to whom one is referring to. In future, I will know what you mean. Or should that be 'we'? I suppose if one is in one's favoured company, then one can presume to use the inclusive "we", that one does speak for both, for all, for everyone, even until the lurkers. For myself, this is a presumption too far. I have no doubt that I cannot presume that privilege or honour. Roger On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Thank you Tad. That was a Royal We, that is the way we always speak, at > restaurants when we order they always ask me if we are waiting for somebody, > we kindly say no, and continue, > at bars bartenders look around, then ask me the same question.. > > you think we should say I? > > In my faith no b/c's, we absolutely have no time for chats, do not know if > others have, not we, > sincerestly, > > WE > > From: "Roger Day" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:22 PM > > > >I try my best. > > > > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or > > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? > > > > That said, this has become way OT. > > > > Roger > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that old > >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become so > >> nice... > >> > >> From: "Roger Day" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > >> > >> > >> > Let me be straightforward in return. > >> > > >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. As > >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be > >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. > >> > > >> > Roger > >> > > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to this > >> >> list - > >> >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: > >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a > >> >> youngster > >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your > >> >> never-ending > >> >> cynicism? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: "Roger Day" > >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > >> >> > >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... > >> >> > > >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> --Bob > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From chris.lott Thu Feb 15 12:18:02 2007 From: chris.lott (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:18:02 -0900 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0702150918g59a7a922s651ae8f0a7da391d@mail.gmail.com> On 2/15/07, Roger Day wrote: > It's good to know to whom one is referring to. In future, I will know > what you mean. Or should that be 'we'? I suppose if one is in one's > favoured company, then one can presume to use the inclusive "we", that > one does speak for both, for all, for everyone, even until the > lurkers. For myself, this is a presumption too far. I have no doubt > that I cannot presume that privilege or honour. Now I'm confused.. are you the youngster? This message sounds like you were born in the Victorian era... Then again, I think youth was being equated with being born in '59, so maybe we're all feeling relativistic effects. On that scale I guess I'm still a precocious pre-teen, born in '70. c From tad Thu Feb 15 12:39:10 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:39:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY><005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY><002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I give Anny full permission to speak for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > It's good to know to whom one is referring to. In future, I will know > what you mean. Or should that be 'we'? I suppose if one is in one's > favoured company, then one can presume to use the inclusive "we", that > one does speak for both, for all, for everyone, even until the > lurkers. For myself, this is a presumption too far. I have no doubt > that I cannot presume that privilege or honour. > > Roger > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Thank you Tad. That was a Royal We, that is the way we always speak, at >> restaurants when we order they always ask me if we are waiting for >> somebody, >> we kindly say no, and continue, >> at bars bartenders look around, then ask me the same question.. >> >> you think we should say I? >> >> In my faith no b/c's, we absolutely have no time for chats, do not know >> if >> others have, not we, >> sincerestly, >> >> WE >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:22 PM >> >> >> >I try my best. >> > >> > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or >> > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? >> > >> > That said, this has become way OT. >> > >> > Roger >> > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that >> >> old >> >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become >> >> so >> >> nice... >> >> >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> > Let me be straightforward in return. >> >> > >> >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. >> >> > As >> >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be >> >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. >> >> > >> >> > Roger >> >> > >> >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to >> >> >> this >> >> >> list - >> >> >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: >> >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a >> >> >> youngster >> >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your >> >> >> never-ending >> >> >> cynicism? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: "Roger Day" >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ >> > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd Thu Feb 15 12:58:59 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:58:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] On turning 10 In-Reply-To: <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> Message-ID: On 2/15/07 8:51 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, ===================================== On Turning Ten The whole idea of it makes me feel like I'm coming down with something, something worse than any stomach ache or the headaches I get from reading in bad light-- a kind of measles of the spirit, a mumps of the psyche, a disfiguring chicken pox of the soul. You tell me it is too early to be looking back, but that is because you have forgotten the perfect simplicity of being one and the beautiful complexity introduced by two. But I can lie on my bed and remember every digit. At four I was an Arabian wizard. I could make myself invisible by drinking a glass of milk a certain way. At seven I was a soldier, at nine a prince. But now I am mostly at the window watching the late afternoon light. Back then it never fell so solemnly against the side of my tree house, and my bicycle never leaned against the garage as it does today, all the dark blue speed drained out of it. This is the beginning of sadness, I say to myself, as I walk through the universe in my sneakers. It is time to say good-bye to my imaginary friends, time to turn the first big number. It seems only yesterday I used to believe there was nothing under my skin but light. If you cut me I could shine. But now when I fall upon the sidewalks of life, I skin my knees. I bleed. --Billy Collins ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From amparker Thu Feb 15 13:19:27 2007 From: amparker (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:19:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joel Brouwer Message-ID: I like his collection, Centuries, especially. 100 word prose poems. - AMP Alan Michael Parker Davidson College www.amparker.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 15 13:19:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:19:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] On turning 10 References: Message-ID: <006d01c7512d$d1cf4b30$a5aa3452@ANNY> I know I am going to say something I should not say on this list, but there are some poems by Billy Collins that I love _this is one of them, and I enjoyed in an exceptional way a program on kqed with Collins as a guest, ... From: "David Graham" Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:58 PM > > > > On 2/15/07 8:51 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, > ===================================== > > On Turning Ten > > The whole idea of it makes me feel > like I'm coming down with something, > something worse than any stomach ache > or the headaches I get from reading in bad light-- > a kind of measles of the spirit, > a mumps of the psyche, > a disfiguring chicken pox of the soul. > > You tell me it is too early to be looking back, > but that is because you have forgotten > the perfect simplicity of being one > and the beautiful complexity introduced by two. > But I can lie on my bed and remember every digit. > At four I was an Arabian wizard. > I could make myself invisible > by drinking a glass of milk a certain way. > At seven I was a soldier, at nine a prince. > > But now I am mostly at the window > watching the late afternoon light. > Back then it never fell so solemnly > against the side of my tree house, > and my bicycle never leaned against the garage > as it does today, > all the dark blue speed drained out of it. > > This is the beginning of sadness, I say to myself, > as I walk through the universe in my sneakers. > It is time to say good-bye to my imaginary friends, > time to turn the first big number. > > It seems only yesterday I used to believe > there was nothing under my skin but light. > If you cut me I could shine. > But now when I fall upon the sidewalks of life, > I skin my knees. I bleed. > > --Billy Collins > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== From bobgrumman Thu Feb 15 16:48:54 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:48:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] congrats to Bob Grumman References: 001301c750fe$70900370$8bd83052@ANNY Message-ID: <007b01c7514b$29833450$58fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Thanks for keeping track of the Important Mentions on the Internet, Anny! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Thu Feb 15 18:07:29 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:07:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On turning 10 In-Reply-To: <006d01c7512d$d1cf4b30$a5aa3452@ANNY> References: <006d01c7512d$d1cf4b30$a5aa3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702151507m6006d95bu1f04724d7b00479b@mail.gmail.com> I like this poem a lot, myself; and I'm not a huge fan of Collins. To me, he's the poet laureate of missed opportunities. He has all these great ideas that kind of lie flat on the page, doing nothing. "On Turning 10," however, I like. Jeff On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I know I am going to say something I should not say on this list, but > there > are some poems by Billy Collins that I love _this is one of them, and I > enjoyed in an exceptional way a program on kqed with Collins as a guest, > ... > > From: "David Graham" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/07 8:51 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > > > >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, > > ===================================== > > > > On Turning Ten > > > > The whole idea of it makes me feel > > like I'm coming down with something, > > something worse than any stomach ache > > or the headaches I get from reading in bad light-- > > a kind of measles of the spirit, > > a mumps of the psyche, > > a disfiguring chicken pox of the soul. > > > > You tell me it is too early to be looking back, > > but that is because you have forgotten > > the perfect simplicity of being one > > and the beautiful complexity introduced by two. > > But I can lie on my bed and remember every digit. > > At four I was an Arabian wizard. > > I could make myself invisible > > by drinking a glass of milk a certain way. > > At seven I was a soldier, at nine a prince. > > > > But now I am mostly at the window > > watching the late afternoon light. > > Back then it never fell so solemnly > > against the side of my tree house, > > and my bicycle never leaned against the garage > > as it does today, > > all the dark blue speed drained out of it. > > > > This is the beginning of sadness, I say to myself, > > as I walk through the universe in my sneakers. > > It is time to say good-bye to my imaginary friends, > > time to turn the first big number. > > > > It seems only yesterday I used to believe > > there was nothing under my skin but light. > > If you cut me I could shine. > > But now when I fall upon the sidewalks of life, > > I skin my knees. I bleed. > > > > --Billy Collins > > > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ==================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Thu Feb 15 19:35:11 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:35:11 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] On turning 10 Message-ID: This reminds me a bit of a song by a singer/songwriter named Alejandro Escovedo. He was visiting a class in an elementary school and one of the kids said since he turned 10 candy didn't taste as good. The chorus of the song goes: I turned the big one-oh I feel so old\ Candy doesn't taste as good any more" In a message dated 2/15/2007 6:07:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: I like this poem a lot, myself; and I'm not a huge fan of Collins. To me, he's the poet laureate of missed opportunities. He has all these great ideas that kind of lie flat on the page, doing nothing. "On Turning 10," however, I like. Jeff On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini <_anny.ballardini at tin.it_ (mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it) > wrote: I know I am going to say something I should not say on this list, but there are some poems by Billy Collins that I love _this is one of them, and I enjoyed in an exceptional way a program on kqed with Collins as a guest, ... From: "David Graham" <_grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:58 PM > > > > On 2/15/07 8:51 AM, "Anny Ballardini" <_anny.ballardini at tin.it_ (mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it) > wrote: > >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, > ===================================== > > On Turning Ten > > The whole idea of it makes me feel > like I'm coming down with something, > something worse than any stomach ache > or the headaches I get from reading in bad light-- > a kind of measles of the spirit, > a mumps of the psyche, > a disfiguring chicken pox of the soul. > > You tell me it is too early to be looking back, > but that is because you have forgotten > the perfect simplicity of being one > and the beautiful complexity introduced by two. > But I can lie on my bed and remember every digit. > At four I was an Arabian wizard. > I could make myself invisible > by drinking a glass of milk a certain way. > At seven I was a soldier, at nine a prince. > > But now I am mostly at the window > watching the late afternoon light. > Back then it never fell so solemnly > against the side of my tree house, > and my bicycle never leaned against the garage > as it does today, > all the dark blue speed drained out of it. > > This is the beginning of sadness, I say to myself, > as I walk through the universe in my sneakers. > It is time to say good-bye to my imaginary friends, > time to turn the first big number. > > It seems only yesterday I used to believe > there was nothing under my skin but light. > If you cut me I could shine. > But now when I fall upon the sidewalks of life, > I skin my knees. I bleed. > > --Billy Collins > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > _grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) > Home Page: > _http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html_ (http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html) > Poetry Library: > _http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html_ (http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html) > ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list _New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August _http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com_ (http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Thu Feb 15 21:34:57 2007 From: GrahamD (David Graham) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:34:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Albert's house Message-ID: <305A8AFC-E6A2-425A-BBA9-3F2257981607@ripon.edu> Admit it: you've always wanted to look at photos of Albert Goldbarth's house. http://poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoets.html?id=179326 It is, of course, utterly unsurprising to learn that Goldbarth has an enormous collection of "1950s outer space stuffs, toy spaceships and robots . . . ." I mean, that practically goes without saying. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 16 01:22:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 07:22:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Albert's house References: <305A8AFC-E6A2-425A-BBA9-3F2257981607@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <003401c75192$db1fadf0$b0ab3852@ANNY> Yes, the one with the Library that I liked so much, the only thing I wished today was to see his house. This book saved my life. This book takes place on one of the two small tagalong moons of Mars. This book requests its author's absolution, centuries after his death. This book required two of the sultan's largest royal elephants to bear it; this other book fit in a gourd. This book reveals The Secret Name of God, and so its author is on a death list. This is the book I lifted high over my head, intending to smash a roach in my girlfriend's bedroom; instead, my back unsprung, and I toppled painfully into her bed, where I stayed motionless for eight days. This is a "book." That is, an audio cassette. This other "book" is a screen and a microchip. This other "book," the sky. ... From: David Graham Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 3:34 AM Admit it: you've always wanted to look at photos of Albert Goldbarth's house. http://poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoets.html?id=179326 It is, of course, utterly unsurprising to learn that Goldbarth has an enormous collection of "1950s outer space stuffs, toy spaceships and robots . . . ." I mean, that practically goes without saying. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Feb 16 05:07:44 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:07:44 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> <001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: Well, good for you. Personally, I find Anny's manner over-bearing and pompous. Do I complain? I do not. I do not set myself up as the arbiter on morals and manners in NewPoetry. Now, if people find my manner beyond the pale they can petition Jim and get me kicked off. Otherwise, I don't see the issue. Roger On 2/15/07, TheOldMole wrote: > I give Anny full permission to speak for me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Day" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:01 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > > It's good to know to whom one is referring to. In future, I will know > > what you mean. Or should that be 'we'? I suppose if one is in one's > > favoured company, then one can presume to use the inclusive "we", that > > one does speak for both, for all, for everyone, even until the > > lurkers. For myself, this is a presumption too far. I have no doubt > > that I cannot presume that privilege or honour. > > > > Roger > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Thank you Tad. That was a Royal We, that is the way we always speak, at > >> restaurants when we order they always ask me if we are waiting for > >> somebody, > >> we kindly say no, and continue, > >> at bars bartenders look around, then ask me the same question.. > >> > >> you think we should say I? > >> > >> In my faith no b/c's, we absolutely have no time for chats, do not know > >> if > >> others have, not we, > >> sincerestly, > >> > >> WE > >> > >> From: "Roger Day" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:22 PM > >> > >> > >> >I try my best. > >> > > >> > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the royal "we"? Or > >> > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to represent the list? > >> > > >> > That said, this has become way OT. > >> > > >> > Roger > >> > > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want to reach 30, that > >> >> old > >> >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy you have become > >> >> so > >> >> nice... > >> >> > >> >> From: "Roger Day" > >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Let me be straightforward in return. > >> >> > > >> >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below the age of 35. > >> >> > As > >> >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with though you'll be > >> >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made progress. > >> >> > > >> >> > Roger > >> >> > > >> >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> this is more a personal thought than something I should send to > >> >> >> this > >> >> >> list - > >> >> >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: > >> >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, instead he is a > >> >> >> youngster > >> >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it because of your > >> >> >> never-ending > >> >> >> cynicism? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> From: "Roger Day" > >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> --Bob > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > >> > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 16 05:22:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:22:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY><005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY><002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY><001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <000901c751b4$664cc9a0$bcd63152@ANNY> Thanks, that is the minimum you could say seen the way you understood my remark. It was not meant initially that way, rather as a compliment to your young age and a way to mask your post to Bob. I would rather have this discussion dropped. From: "Roger Day" Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:07 AM > Well, good for you. > > Personally, I find Anny's manner over-bearing and pompous. Do I > complain? I do not. I do not set myself up as the arbiter on morals > and manners in NewPoetry. Now, if people find my manner beyond the > pale they can petition Jim and get me kicked off. Otherwise, I don't > see the issue. > > Roger -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 16 06:27:56 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:27:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] On turning 10 References: d59.2626726.3306563f@aol.com Message-ID: <002201c751bd$84474300$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I like parts of the Collins poem but have a lot of trouble with the persona, who certainly isn't ten but is in the first person. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 16 06:34:18 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:34:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><004901c7 50f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY><005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY>< fde503480702150722h13628caby7b97fa475fd4db2b@mail.gmail.com><002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY><001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> fde503480702160207v4b466e98ga5c7b249fe730bed@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <002901c751be$66ffe170$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Well, good for you. > > Personally, I find Anny's manner over-bearing and pompous. Do I > complain? I do not. I do not set myself up as the arbiter on morals > and manners in NewPoetry. Now, if people find my manner beyond the > pale they can petition Jim and get me kicked off. Otherwise, I don't > see the issue. > > Roger Maybe if you'd gotten spanked, you'd have more of a sense of humor, Roger. --Bob From rog3r.day Fri Feb 16 08:11:59 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:11:59 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <002901c751be$66ffe170$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> <001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <002901c751be$66ffe170$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: How do you know I wasn't? Humour is in the eye of the beholder, after all. Roger On 2/16/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > Well, good for you. > > > > Personally, I find Anny's manner over-bearing and pompous. Do I > > complain? I do not. I do not set myself up as the arbiter on morals > > and manners in NewPoetry. Now, if people find my manner beyond the > > pale they can petition Jim and get me kicked off. Otherwise, I don't > > see the issue. > > > > Roger > > Maybe if you'd gotten spanked, you'd have more of a sense of humor, Roger. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From rog3r.day Fri Feb 16 08:12:48 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:12:48 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <000901c751b4$664cc9a0$bcd63152@ANNY> References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652@ANNY> <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY> <002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY> <001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <000901c751b4$664cc9a0$bcd63152@ANNY> Message-ID: OK, I'll chalk it up to miscommunication. Consider it dropped. Roger On 2/16/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Thanks, that is the minimum you could say seen the way you understood my > remark. It was not meant initially that way, rather as a compliment to your > young age and a way to mask your post to Bob. I would rather have this > discussion dropped. > > > > From: "Roger Day" > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:07 AM > > > Well, good for you. > > > > Personally, I find Anny's manner over-bearing and pompous. Do I > > complain? I do not. I do not set myself up as the arbiter on morals > > and manners in NewPoetry. Now, if people find my manner beyond the > > pale they can petition Jim and get me kicked off. Otherwise, I don't > > see the issue. > > > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From grahamd Fri Feb 16 11:20:53 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:20:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] No ideas but in things Message-ID: <5EF91439-DD8A-4DD7-BA30-282ADF8CE4E4@ripon.edu> Not exactly a new idea: "All perception of truth is the detection of an analogy; we reason from our hands to our head." --Thoreau, journals ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Feb 16 11:26:55 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:26:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert's house In-Reply-To: <003401c75192$db1fadf0$b0ab3852@ANNY> References: <305A8AFC-E6A2-425A-BBA9-3F2257981607@ripon.edu> <003401c75192$db1fadf0$b0ab3852@ANNY> Message-ID: I'm eagerly awaiting the appearance of Goldbarth's new & selected poems, due any day now from Graywolf. It has a great and perfectly apt title: *The Kitchen Sink*. On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:22 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Yes, the one with the Library that I liked so much, the only thing > I wished today was to see his house. > > From: David Graham > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 3:34 AM > > Admit it: you've always wanted to look at photos of Albert > Goldbarth's house. > > http://poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoets.html?id=179326 > > It is, of course, utterly unsurprising to learn that Goldbarth has > an enormous collection of "1950s outer space stuffs, toy spaceships > and robots . . . ." I mean, that practically goes without saying. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 16 16:11:02 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:11:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought References: <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052@ANNY><002401c7511f$f55e4320$a5aa3452@ANNY>< 001901c75128$3380a8c0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress><002901c751be$66ffe170$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> fde503480702160511h5ca1cd0nc83a7fed431173ac@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <004b01c7520e$f88b5890$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > How do you know I wasn't? Humour is in the eye of the beholder, after all. > > Roger I disagree but am not going to argue about it. Too complicated a subject. Can't see how anyone could take the following as very witty, though--but if intended as a joke, fine. If not, that's okay, too--but dotty. --Bob >> > Well, good for you. >> > >> > Personally, I find Anny's manner over-bearing and pompous. Do I >> > complain? I do not. I do not set myself up as the arbiter on morals >> > and manners in NewPoetry. Now, if people find my manner beyond the >> > pale they can petition Jim and get me kicked off. Otherwise, I don't >> > see the issue. >> > >> > Roger From jorgensen_a Fri Feb 16 19:50:28 2007 From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:50:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Something to look at at...(perhaps) In-Reply-To: <200702151505.l1FF4ut6030355@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <997456.54121.qm@web54604.mail.yahoo.com> I've attached a piece of work I'd like you to consider. I would appreciate any and all feedback. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen --- new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Yah, baby... (Suzanne Baran) > 2. Yah, baby... (David Graham) > 3. Re: Yah, baby... (Suzanne Baran) > 4. Fw: Food for thought (Anny Ballardini) > 5. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Halvard Johnson) > 6. answer to Hal (Anny Ballardini) > 7. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Bob Grumman) > 8. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Jeff Newberry) > 9. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Debra Dicembre) > 10. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Halvard Johnson) > 11. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Roger Day) > 12. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Anny Ballardini) > 13. congrats to Bob Grumman (Anny Ballardini) > 14. also (Anny Ballardini) > 15. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Roger Day) > 16. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Anny Ballardini) > 17. Re: Fw: Food for thought (Roger Day) > 18. Re: Fw: Food for thought (TheOldMole) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:18:17 -0800 > From: "Suzanne Baran" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Message-ID: > > <2d5ffa0b0702141118v78d284fcy7ec0911e903052a at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > That was brilliantly stated. Time to make that my > email signature quote! > > On 2/14/07, Suzanne Burns > wrote: > > > > Good article. I particularly like the quote from > my old classmate, Joel > > Brower. Couldn't have said this better myself: > > > > Joel Brouwer, a poet reviewing a collection in the > Times Book Review in > > December, wrote, "Contemporary poetry's great good > fortune (despite contrary > > claims from certain hand-wringers mad to see poems > affixed to every > > slot-machine, taxi stand and flowerpot in the > land) is that it has no mass > > market, and so no call to pander." > > > > I have come to realize that of the things that > makes poetry valuable to me > > is precisely that it *isn't* a commodity that can > be harnessed up to make > > money. It is therefore free to do a different > kind of work. > > > > > > Suzanne > > > > > > > > > > On 2/13/07, JforJames at aol.com > wrote: > > > > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear > > > > > > THE MONEYED MUSE > > > What can two hundred million dollars do for > poetry? > > > by DANA GOODYEAR > > > Issue of 2007-02-19 > > > Posted 2007-02-12 > > > > > > > > > Michael Lewis, a journalist and the author of > "Liar's Poker" and > > > "Moneyball," appeared in the magazine Poetry for > the first time in the > > > summer of 2005, with a satirical piece called > "How to Make a Killing from > > > Poetry: A Six Point Plan of Attack." It offered > its advice in bullet-point > > > businessese: "1) Think Positive. Nobody likes a > whiner. And poets always > > > seem to be harping on the negative. . . . 2) > Take Your New Positive Attitude > > > and Direct It Towards the Paying Customer. The > customer is your friend. Your > > > typical poem really doesn't seem to pay much > attention to the living retail > > > customer. . . . 3) Think About Your Core > Message. Your average reader might > > > like a bit of fancy writing, but at the end of > the day he will always ask > > > himself: what's my takeaway? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do > not know the way." > > > > Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of > illuminati just as much > as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. Not > to mention that most > terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in > solitude." - Walter Benjamin > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070214/ef3056ba/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:39:24 -0600 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... > To: NewPoetry > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Joel Brouwer is one of the many poets who is on my > radar but not yet on my > bookshelf. Either of the Suzannes: care to > recommend someplace I should > start reading him? > > > On 2/14/07 1:18 PM, "Suzanne Baran" > wrote: > > >> Joel Brouwer > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070214/97db2ff6/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:54:46 -0800 > From: "Suzanne Baran" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Message-ID: > > <2d5ffa0b0702141154ldb86c85h6a82e830f7820df0 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > http://www.cortlandreview.com/issue/18/brouwer18.html > http://www.thebluemoon.com/poetry/jbrouwer.shtml > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=%20179290 > > On 2/14/07, David Graham wrote: > > > > Joel Brouwer is one of the many poets who *is* on > my radar but not yet on > > my bookshelf. Either of the Suzannes: care to > recommend someplace I should > > start reading him? > > > > > > On 2/14/07 1:18 PM, "Suzanne Baran" > wrote: > > > > Joel Brouwer > > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > > ==================================================== > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "The reader, the thinker, the flaneur, are types of > illuminati just as much > as the opium eater, the dreamer, the ecstatic. Not > to mention that most > terrible drug - ourselves - which we take in > solitude." - Walter Benjamin > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070214/d85cadfd/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:51:51 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "New Poetry" > Message-ID: <00f601c75079$f41cedf0$1eae3252 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > > > > > > > > TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and 70's !! > > > > First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank while > > they > > were pregnant. > > > > They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna > from a can, and didn't > > get > > tested for diabetes. > > > > Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in baby cribs > > covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > > > > We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets and when > > we > > rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, > the risks we took > > hitchhiking > > > > As infants & children, we would ride in cars with > no car seats, booster > > seats, seat belts or air bags. > > > > Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was > always a special treat. > > > > We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a > bottle. > > > > We shared one soft drink with four friends, from > one bottle and NO ONE > > actually died from this. > > > > We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and > drank kool aid made with > > sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE > ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > > > > We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we were > > back > > when the streetlights came on. > > > > No one was able to reach us all day. And we were > O.K. > > > > We would spend hours building our go-carts out of > scraps and then ride > > down > > the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. > After running into the > > bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > > > > We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, > no video games at all, > > no > > 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, > no surround-sound or > > CD's, > > no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet > or chat rooms . WE HAD > > FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > > > > We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there were no > > lawsuits from these accidents. > > > > We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the > worms did not live in us > > forever. > > > > We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made > up games with sticks > > and > > tennis balls and, although we were told it would > happen, we did not put > > out > > very many eyes. > > > > We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the door or > > rang > > the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > > > > Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those who didn't > > had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine > that! > > > > The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was unheard of. > > They > > actually sided with the law! > > > > These generations have produced some of the best > risk-takers, problem > > solvers and inventors ever! > > > > The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. > > > > We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we learned HOW TO > > DEAL WITH IT ALL! > > > > If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > > > > You might want to share this with others who have > had the luck to grow up > > as > > kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of our lives > > for our own good > > > > And while you are at it, forward it to your kids > so they will know how > > brave > > (and lucky) their parents were. > > > > Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, doesn't > > it?! > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:10:27 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: > <741B2EA2-E3CB-4815-8E31-D3F887B9932B at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hmm, I'd rather swap thought for food than > food for thought. > > Hal > > "Go ahead and look for God, but > tie up your camel first." > --Sufi proverb > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > >> > >> > >> > >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and 70's !! > >> > >> First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank > >> while they > >> were pregnant. > >> > >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna > from a can, and > >> didn't get > >> tested for diabetes. > >> > >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in > >> baby cribs > >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > >> > >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets > >> and when we > >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to > mention, the risks we took > >> hitchhiking > >> > >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with > no car seats, > >> booster > >> seats, seat belts or air bags. > >> > >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was > always a special > >> treat. > >> > >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from > a bottle. > >> > >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from > one bottle and NO > >> ONE > >> actually died from this. > >> > >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and > drank kool aid > >> made with > >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE > ALWAYS OUTSIDE > >> PLAYING! > >> > >> We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we > >> were back > >> when the streetlights came on. > >> > >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were > O.K. > >> > >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of > scraps and then > >> ride down > >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. > After running > >> into the > >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > >> > >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, > X-boxes, no video games > >> at all, no > >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, > no surround-sound > >> or CD's, > >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no > Internet or chat rooms . > >> WE HAD > >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > >> > >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there > >> were no > >> lawsuits from these accidents. > >> > >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the > worms did not > >> live in us > >> forever. > >> > >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, > made up games with > >> sticks and > >> tennis balls and, although we were told it would > happen, we did > >> not put out > >> very many eyes. > >> > >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the > >> door or rang > >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > >> > >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those > >> who didn't > >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine > that! > >> > >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was > >> unheard of. They > >> actually sided with the law! > >> > >> These generations have produced some of the best > risk-takers, problem > >> solvers and inventors ever! > >> > >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. > >> > >> We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we > >> learned HOW TO > >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > >> > >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > >> > >> You might want to share this with others who have > had the luck to > >> grow up as > >> kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of > >> our lives > >> for our own good > >> > >> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids > so they will know > >> how brave > >> (and lucky) their parents were. > >> > >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, > >> doesn't it?! > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:19:40 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] answer to Hal > To: "New Poetry" > Message-ID: <012501c7507d$d6ba82f0$1eae3252 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > just posted to my blog: > > > > > > > > "Suprematism is the rediscovery of pure art that, in > the course of time, had become obscured by the > accumulation of 'things'." > > - Kasimir Malevich, The Non-Objective World > > > > > (Supremus No. 58) 1916; Oil on canvas, 79.5 x 70.5 > cm (31 1/4 x 27 3/4 in); State Russian Museum, St. > Petersburg > > > > -- > Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at > 2/14/2007 10:16:00 PM > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070214/e0949a23/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:22:06 -0500 > From: "Bob Grumman" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: > <008901c7507e$a58c1170$8efad740 at youro0kwkw9jwc> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > We got (gasp) spanked, too. > > --Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anny Ballardini" > To: "New Poetry" > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:51 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > >> > >> > >> > >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and 70's !! > >> > >> First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank while > >> they > >> were pregnant. > >> > >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna > from a can, and didn't > >> get > >> tested for diabetes. > >> > >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in baby cribs > >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > >> > >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets and when > >> we > >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to > mention, the risks we took > >> hitchhiking > >> > >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars with > no car seats, booster > >> seats, seat belts or air bags. > >> > >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was > always a special treat. > >> > >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from > a bottle. > >> > >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, from > one bottle and NO ONE > >> actually died from this. > >> > >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and > drank kool aid made with > >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE > ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > >> > >> We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we were > >> back > >> when the streetlights came on. > >> > >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we were > O.K. > >> > >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out of > scraps and then ride > >> down > >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. > After running into the > >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > >> > >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, > X-boxes, no video games at all, > >> no > >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, > no surround-sound or > >> CD's, > >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no > Internet or chat rooms . WE HAD > >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > >> > >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there were no > >> lawsuits from these accidents. > >> > >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the > worms did not live in > >> us > >> forever. > >> > >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, > made up games with sticks > >> and > >> tennis balls and, although we were told it would > happen, we did not put > >> out > >> very many eyes. > >> > >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the door or > >> rang > >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > >> > >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those who > >> didn't > >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine > that! > >> > >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was unheard of. > >> They > >> actually sided with the law! > >> > >> These generations have produced some of the best > risk-takers, problem > >> solvers and inventors ever! > >> > >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. > >> > >> We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we learned HOW > >> TO > >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > >> > >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > >> > >> You might want to share this with others who have > had the luck to grow up > >> as > >> kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of our > >> lives > >> for our own good > >> > >> And while you are at it, forward it to your kids > so they will know how > >> brave > >> (and lucky) their parents were. > >> > >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, doesn't > >> it?! > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:52:41 -0500 > From: "Jeff Newberry" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Message-ID: > > <731bb17a0702141352h61cfa64atb80e838ef6833eed at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I might change that to "Those Born between 1930 & > 1969" > > For example: > > I distinctly remember childproof medicine bottles > from my years as a kid. I > was born in 74 and came of age between 86 & 91, I'd > guess. > > We had video games--and lots: Atari 2600, > Collecovision, PONG systems, > Intellivision, not to mention the first 16-bit > Nintendo and later the > Nintendo 64. > > Riding in the back of a truck was illegal where I > grew up (on the Northwest > Florida coast). I had some friends get ticketed in > high school for breaking > this law. > > We certainly had CDs. I remember a dude working the > concession stand at a > high school football game, a guy in my grade (whose > name was Brian, I > think). He had the very first CD player I ever saw, > a portable job he > carrried under his jacket. It was about a foot long > & flat. He wore it > strapped over his shoulder and listened to the CD > with a set of headphones. > He showed me the album--it was Poison's *Look What > the Cat Drug In*. I was > into tapes & had crates of them, having opened > several Columbia House > accounts in my name, my brother's name, my dog's > name, and my dad's name. > > (Odd stray thought--the first CD I remember > purchasing was Stevie Ray > Vaughan's posthumous *The Sky is Crying.*) > > The first computer I remember was a Tandy 1000 in > 1990. My brother & I > saved some extra money from our jobs at the grocery > store & put a second 3 > 1/2 disk drive in it. I remember trying to play > games on it was a hassle > because the damn thing kept loading & loading & > loading. The computer > didn't have a fan & often froze up. I fancied > myself a "novelist" at 16 & > often wrote hours into the night. Often, the > computer would freeze before I > saved my work--I lost quite a lot of crappy prose > that way. > > But, for the most part, the rest of it lines up with > my childhood. > > Thanks for posting this Anny. > > Jeff Newberry > > > On 2/14/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > > > Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > > > > > > > > > > > > TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and 70's !! > > > > > > First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank while > > > they > > > were pregnant. > > > > > > They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, > tuna from a can, and didn't > > > get > > > tested for diabetes. > > > > > > Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in baby > > cribs > > > covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > > > > > > We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets and > > when > > > we > > > rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to > mention, the risks we took > > > hitchhiking > > > > > > As infants & children, we would ride in cars > with no car seats, booster > > > seats, seat belts or air bags. > > > > > > Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day > was always a special > > treat. > > > > > > We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from > a bottle. > > > > > > We shared one soft drink with four friends, from > one bottle and NO ONE > > > actually died from this. > > > > > > We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and > drank kool aid made > > with > > > sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE WERE > ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > > > > > > We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we were > > > back > > > when the streetlights came on. > > > > > > No one was able to reach us all day. And we were > O.K. > > > > > > We would spend hours building our go-carts out > of scraps and then ride > > > down > > > the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. > After running into the > > > bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > > > > > > We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, > X-boxes, no video games at > > all, > > > no > > > 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, > no surround-sound or > > > CD's, > > > no cell phones, no personal computers, no > Internet or chat rooms . WE > > HAD > > > FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > > > > > > We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there were no > > > lawsuits from these accidents. > > > > > > We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and > the worms did not live in > > us > > > forever. > > > > > > We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, > made up games with sticks > > > and > > > tennis balls and, although we were told it would > happen, we did not put > > > out > > > very many eyes. > > > > > > We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the door or > > > rang > > > the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > > > > > > Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those who > > didn't > > > had to learn to deal with disappointment. > Imagine that! > > > > > > The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was unheard of. > > > They > > > actually sided with the law! > > > > > > These generations have produced some of the best > risk-takers, problem > > > solvers and inventors ever! > > > > > > The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. > > > > > > We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we learned HOW > > TO > > > DEAL WITH IT ALL! > > > > > > If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > > > > > > You might want to share this with others who > have had the luck to grow > > up > > > as > > > kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of our > > lives > > > for our own good > > > > > > And while you are at it, forward it to your kids > so they will know how > > > brave > > > (and lucky) their parents were. > > > > > > Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, doesn't > > > it?! > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes > longer than recollects, > longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070214/4856675f/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:03:30 +1100 > From: "Debra Dicembre" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: <002801c7509d$25b58890$0301010a at galaxy> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I thought that was ,'Trust in God but tie up your > camel'. > Or is it , 'Trust in God and tie up your camel'? > DD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Halvard Johnson" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:10 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > > Hmm, I'd rather swap thought for food than > > food for thought. > > > > Hal > > > > "Go ahead and look for God, but > > tie up your camel first." > > --Sufi proverb > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > > > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and 70's !! > > >> > > >> First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank > > >> while they > > >> were pregnant. > > >> > > >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, > tuna from a can, and > > >> didn't get > > >> tested for diabetes. > > >> > > >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in > > >> baby cribs > > >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > > >> > > >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets > > >> and when we > > >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to > mention, the risks we took > > >> hitchhiking > > >> > > >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars > with no car seats, > > >> booster > > >> seats, seat belts or air bags. > > >> > > >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day > was always a special > > >> treat. > > >> > > >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT > from a bottle. > > >> > > >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, > from one bottle and NO > > >> ONE > > >> actually died from this. > > >> > > >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter > and drank kool aid > > >> made with > > >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE > WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE > > >> PLAYING! > > >> > > >> We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we > > >> were back > > >> when the streetlights came on. > > >> > > >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we > were O.K. > > >> > > >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out > of scraps and then > > >> ride down > > >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the > brakes. After running > > >> into the > > >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > > >> > > >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, > X-boxes, no video games > > >> at all, no > > >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or > DVD's, no surround-sound > > >> or CD's, > > >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no > Internet or chat rooms . > > >> WE HAD > > >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > > >> > > >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there > > >> were no > > >> lawsuits from these accidents. > > >> > > >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and > the worms did not > > >> live in us > > >> forever. > > >> > > >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, > made up games with > > >> sticks and > > >> tennis balls and, although we were told it > would happen, we did > > >> not put out > > >> very many eyes. > > >> > > >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the > > >> door or rang > > >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > > >> > > >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those > > >> who didn't > > >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. > Imagine that! > > >> > > >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was > > >> unheard of. They > > >> actually sided with the law! > > >> > > >> These generations have produced some of the > best risk-takers, problem > > >> solvers and inventors ever! > > >> > > >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. > > >> > > >> We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we > > >> learned HOW TO > > >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > > >> > > >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > > >> > > >> You might want to share this with others who > have had the luck to > > >> grow up as > > >> kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of > > >> our lives > > >> for our own good > > >> > > >> And while you are at it, forward it to your > kids so they will know > > >> how brave > > >> (and lucky) their parents were. > > >> > > >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, > > >> doesn't it?! > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:35:35 -0600 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Well, mine was as quoted. Yours I can't > say anything about. > > Hal > > Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Debra Dicembre wrote: > > > I thought that was ,'Trust in God but tie up your > camel'. > > Or is it , 'Trust in God and tie up your camel'? > > DD > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Halvard Johnson" > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News > &Views" > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:10 AM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > > > >> Hmm, I'd rather swap thought for food than > >> food for thought. > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> "Go ahead and look for God, but > >> tie up your camel first." > >> --Sufi proverb > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> halvard at gmail.com > >> halvard at earthlink.net > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> > >> On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> > >>> some of the points are quite interesting: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and > >>>> 70's !! > >>>> > >>>> First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank > >>>> while they > >>>> were pregnant. > >>>> > >>>> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, > tuna from a can, and > >>>> didn't get > >>>> tested for diabetes. > >>>> > >>>> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in > >>>> baby cribs > >>>> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > >>>> > >>>> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets > >>>> and when we > >>>> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to > mention, the risks we > >>>> took > >>>> hitchhiking > >>>> > >>>> As infants & children, we would ride in cars > with no car seats, > >>>> booster > >>>> seats, seat belts or air bags. > >>>> > >>>> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day > was always a special > >>>> treat. > >>>> > >>>> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT > from a bottle. > >>>> > >>>> We shared one soft drink with four friends, > from one bottle and NO > >>>> ONE > >>>> actually died from this. > >>>> > >>>> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter > and drank kool aid > >>>> made with > >>>> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE > WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE > >>>> PLAYING! > >>>> > >>>> We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we > >>>> were back > >>>> when the streetlights came on. > >>>> > >>>> No one was able to reach us all day. And we > were O.K. > >>>> > >>>> We would spend hours building our go-carts out > of scraps and then > >>>> ride down > >>>> the hill, only to find out we forgot the > brakes. After running > >>>> into the > >>>> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > >>>> > >>>> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, > X-boxes, no video games > >>>> at all, no > >>>> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or > DVD's, no surround-sound > >>>> or CD's, > >>>> no cell phones, no personal computers, no > Internet or chat rooms . > >>>> WE HAD > >>>> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > >>>> > >>>> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there > >>>> were no > >>>> lawsuits from these accidents. > >>>> > >>>> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and > the worms did not > >>>> live in us > >>>> forever. > >>>> > >>>> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, > made up games with > >>>> sticks and > >>>> tennis balls and, although we were told it > would happen, we did > >>>> not put out > >>>> very many eyes. > >>>> > >>>> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the > >>>> door or rang > >>>> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > >>>> > >>>> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those > >>>> who didn't > >>>> had to learn to deal with disappointment. > Imagine that! > >>>> > >>>> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was > >>>> unheard of. They > >>>> actually sided with the law! > >>>> > >>>> These generations have produced some of the > best risk-takers, > >>>> problem > >>>> solvers and inventors ever! > >>>> > >>>> The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new > >>>> ideas. > >>>> > >>>> We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we > >>>> learned HOW TO > >>>> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > >>>> > >>>> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > >>>> > >>>> You might want to share this with others who > have had the luck to > >>>> grow up as > >>>> kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of > >>>> our lives > >>>> for our own good > >>>> > >>>> And while you are at it, forward it to your > kids so they will know > >>>> how brave > >>>> (and lucky) their parents were. > >>>> > >>>> Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, > >>>> doesn't it?! > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:28:38 +0000 > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > and look how well you turned out ... > > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > We got (gasp) spanked, too. > > > > --Bob > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anny Ballardini" > > To: "New Poetry" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:51 PM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > > > > > some of the points are quite interesting: > > > > > > > > >> Those Born between 1930 and 1979! > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's 40's, > 50's, 60's and 70's !! > > >> > > >> First, we survived being born to mothers who > smoked and/or drank while > > >> they > > >> were pregnant. > > >> > > >> They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, > tuna from a can, and didn't > > >> get > > >> tested for diabetes. > > >> > > >> Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on > our tummies in baby cribs > > >> covered with bright colored lead-based paints. > > >> > > >> We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, > doors or cabinets and when > > >> we > > >> rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to > mention, the risks we took > > >> hitchhiking > > >> > > >> As infants & children, we would ride in cars > with no car seats, booster > > >> seats, seat belts or air bags. > > >> > > >> Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day > was always a special treat. > > >> > > >> We drank water from the garden hose and NOT > from a bottle. > > >> > > >> We shared one soft drink with four friends, > from one bottle and NO ONE > > >> actually died from this. > > >> > > >> We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter > and drank kool aid made with > > >> sugar, but we weren't overweight because WE > WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! > > >> > > >> We would leave home in the morning and play all > day, as long as we were > > >> back > > >> when the streetlights came on. > > >> > > >> No one was able to reach us all day. And we > were O.K. > > >> > > >> We would spend hours building our go-carts out > of scraps and then ride > > >> down > > >> the hill, only to find out we forgot the > brakes. After running into the > > >> bushes a few times, we learned to solve the > problem. > > >> > > >> We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, > X-boxes, no video games at all, > > >> no > > >> 150 channels on cable, no video movies or > DVD's, no surround-sound or > > >> CD's, > > >> no cell phones, no personal computers, no > Internet or chat rooms . WE HAD > > >> FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! > > >> > > >> We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and > teeth and there were no > > >> lawsuits from these accidents. > > >> > > >> We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and > the worms did not live in > > >> us > > >> forever. > > >> > > >> We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, > made up games with sticks > > >> and > > >> tennis balls and, although we were told it > would happen, we did not put > > >> out > > >> very many eyes. > > >> > > >> We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and > knocked on the door or > > >> rang > > >> the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! > > >> > > >> Little League had tryouts and not everyone made > the team. Those who > > >> didn't > > >> had to learn to deal with disappointment. > Imagine that! > > >> > > >> The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke > the law was unheard of. > > >> They > > >> actually sided with the law! > > >> > > >> These generations have produced some of the > best risk-takers, problem > > >> solvers and inventors ever! > > >> > > >> The past 50 years have been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. > > >> > > >> We had freedom, failure, success and > responsibility, and we learned HOW > > >> TO > > >> DEAL WITH IT ALL! > > >> > > >> If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS! > > >> > > >> You might want to share this with others who > have had the luck to grow up > > >> as > > >> kids, before the lawyers and the government > regulated so much of our > > >> lives > > >> for our own good > > >> > > >> And while you are at it, forward it to your > kids so they will know how > > >> brave > > >> (and lucky) their parents were. > > >> > > >> Kind of makes you want to run through the house > with scissors, doesn't > > >> it?! > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:42:05 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: <004901c750f6$518d7370$6ceb3652 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > this is more a personal thought than something I > should send to this list - but in that case I would > be less straightforward: > I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, > instead he is a youngster born in '59, what an > incredible surprise, is it because of your > never-ending cynicism? > > From: "Roger Day" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > > > > and look how well you turned out ... > > > > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman > wrote: > >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> > >> --Bob > >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070215/cf762acd/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:40:13 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] congrats to Bob Grumman > To: "New Poetry" > Message-ID: <001301c750fe$70900370$8bd83052 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > see here: > http://poetry.about.com/b/a/157902.htm > > section of the following: > http://poetry.about.com/od/poems/a/concretepoetry.htm?nl=1 > > cheers, > Anny > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give > birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070215/944e4e2f/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:43:11 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: [New-Poetry] also > To: "New Poetry" > Message-ID: <001a01c750fe$da5c5d30$8bd83052 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > of interest see here by Bob Holman: > http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/blscrolly.htm > > follow the directions! > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give > birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070215/7c03387e/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:29:51 +0000 > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > Let me be straightforward in return. > > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people below > the age of 35. As > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with > though you'll be > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made > progress. > > Roger > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > > > > > this is more a personal thought than something I > should send to this list - > > but in that case I would be less straightforward: > > I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, > instead he is a youngster > > born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it > because of your never-ending > > cynicism? > > > > > > From: "Roger Day" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > > > > > and look how well you turned out ... > > > > > > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > > >> > > >> --Bob > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:51:03 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: <005001c75110$b70170c0$8bd83052 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not want > to reach 30, that old > that age seemed to me. This said, we should be happy > you have become so > nice... > > From: "Roger Day" > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > > > > Let me be straightforward in return. > > > > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people > below the age of 35. As > > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal with > though you'll be > > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made > progress. > > > > Roger > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> > >> > >> this is more a personal thought than something I > should send to this > >> list - > >> but in that case I would be less straightforward: > >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly man, > instead he is a > >> youngster > >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it > because of your > >> never-ending > >> cynicism? > >> > >> > >> From: "Roger Day" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > >> > >> > and look how well you turned out ... > >> > > >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman > wrote: > >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> >> > >> >> --Bob > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:22:27 +0000 > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > I try my best. > > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that the > royal "we"? Or > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to > represent the list? > > That said, this has become way OT. > > Roger > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not > want to reach 30, that old > > that age seemed to me. This said, we should be > happy you have become so > > nice... > > > > From: "Roger Day" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > > > > > > > Let me be straightforward in return. > > > > > > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people > below the age of 35. As > > > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal > with though you'll be > > > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made > progress. > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> this is more a personal thought than something > I should send to this > > >> list - > > >> but in that case I would be less > straightforward: > > >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly > man, instead he is a > > >> youngster > > >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is it > because of your > > >> never-ending > > >> cynicism? > > >> > > >> > > >> From: "Roger Day" > > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > > >> > > >> > and look how well you turned out ... > > >> > > > >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman > wrote: > > >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > > >> >> > > >> >> --Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:34:43 -0500 > From: "TheOldMole" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: > <007201c75116$d0a5b6c0$6501a8c0 at OldMoleExpress> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > "We should," not "We are." This is an injunction to > the rest of us NewPos. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Day" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, > Views" > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: Food for thought > > > >I try my best. > > > > I don't understand who you mean by "we"? Is that > the royal "we"? Or > > some back-channel back-room? Or do you presume to > represent the list? > > > > That said, this has become way OT. > > > > Roger > > > > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> Re.: your first point, when I was 10 I did not > want to reach 30, that old > >> that age seemed to me. This said, we should be > happy you have become so > >> nice... > >> > >> From: "Roger Day" > >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:29 PM > >> > >> > >> > Let me be straightforward in return. > >> > > >> > 47 seems old to me, as it would to most people > below the age of 35. As > >> > to my cynicism, well, that's for you to deal > with though you'll be > >> > glad to hear that my analyst says I've made > progress. > >> > > >> > Roger > >> > > >> > On 2/15/07, Anny Ballardini > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> this is more a personal thought than something > I should send to this > >> >> list - > >> >> but in that case I would be less > straightforward: > >> >> I had the impression that RD was an elderly > man, instead he is a > >> >> youngster > >> >> born in '59, what an incredible surprise, is > it because of your > >> >> never-ending > >> >> cynicism? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: "Roger Day" > >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:28 PM > >> >> > >> >> > and look how well you turned out ... > >> >> > > >> >> > On 2/14/07, Bob Grumman > wrote: > >> >> >> We got (gasp) spanked, too. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> --Bob > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > -- > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ > > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar > Wilde > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 22 > ****************************************** > --- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vase_for_qin_man_jorgensen.alex.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 40328 bytes Desc: 732339227-vase_for_qin_man_jorgensen.alex.pdf URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 16 20:21:49 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:21:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Something to look at at...(perhaps) References: 997456.54121.qm@web54604.mail.yahoo.com Message-ID: <00ae01c75232$131bcd20$2bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I enjoyed your poem, Alexander. Very pleasant--which will sound sort of condescending, I suppose, but I can't think of anything more exact. I very much liked the simple use of variable indentation--I find the poem a good two times as effective with your variable indentations as it would have been with everything left-justified. The bold-face works for me. --Bob G. From grahamd Sat Feb 17 11:24:11 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:24:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Patricia Smith Message-ID: <7F843868-5EF8-4ACA-B6F3-0A4C06378980@ripon.edu> My Million Fathers, Still Here Past Hallelujah for your grizzled lip, snuff chew, bended slow walk and shit talkin'. Praise fatback, pork gravy, orange butter, Alaga syrup, grits and egg sammiches on Wonder Bread slathered with Hellman's, mashed 'tween sheets of wax paper. You hoard that food like money. You are three-day checker games, pomade slick back, deep brown drink sucked through holes where teeth once was. You're that can't-shake lyric, that last bar stool before the back door. All glory to the church deacons, bodies afloat in pressed serge, nappy knobs of gray hair greased flat, close to conk, cracked voices teetering and testifying. Bless you postmen and whip-cloth shoe shiners, foremen with burning backs, porters bowing deep. I hear swear-scowling and gold-tooth giggling over games of bid whist and craps, then Sunday's Lucky Struck voices playing call-and-response with the Good Book's siren song. In the midst of some hymn,, my wilting fathers, I see you young again, you spit-shined and polished, folded at the hips on a sluggish Greyhound, or colored in the colored car of a silver train chugging past Pine Bluff, Aliceville, Minneola, Greenwood, Muscle Shoals, headed north where factories pumped precise gospel and begged you inside their open mouths. You're the reason the Saturday moon wouldn't fall. You mail-order zoot suit wide-wing felt hats to dip low over one eye, pimp walkin', taps hammered into heels, kickin' up hot foot to get down one time, slow drag blues threading bone and hip bump when the jukebox teases. All praise to the eagle what flew on Friday and the Lincoln Mark, the Riviera, the Deuce and a Quarter, the always too much car for what you were. You were the lucky number, the dream book, the steaming spoon of black-eyes on day one of every year. Here is to your mojo, your magic real, roots and conjures and long-dead plants in cotton pouches. Deftly misled by tiny religions, you spat on the broom that brushed your foot, stayed left of light poles. Griots of sloped porch and city walk, my million fathers, still here past chalk outlines, dirty needles, and prison cots, still here past ass whuppings, tree hangings, and many calls to war, past J.B. stupor, absent children, and drive-bys. You survive, scarred and hobbling, choking back dawn ache, high pressure, dimming and eyes, joints that smell thunder. Here's to the secret of your rotting molars, the tender bump on your balls, your misaligned back, wild corn on that baby toe, the many rebellions of your black, tired bodies. I watch you cluck the hard history of lust past your gums, squeeze rheumy eyes shut to conjure the dream outline of a woman. I am a woman. I will rub your weary head, dance close to you, shuck you silver peas for dinner. He was Otis, my father, but you are Willie Earl and James and Ernest and Jimmy Lee. All of you, frail charmers, gentle Delta, bodies curled against the time gone, the time coming. I grieve you tottering toward death, I celebrate you clinging to life. Open your bony dark-veined arms and receive me, a woman in the shape of your daughter, who is taking on your last days as her very blood, learning your whispered language too late to stop your dying, but not too late to tell this story. --Patricia Smith. Teahouse of the Almighty. Coffee House Press, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Feb 17 12:11:32 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:11:32 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 poems with dates Message-ID: <004001c752b6$ac5f7110$eaaf3852@ANNY> AARON FOGEL 337,000, December, 2000 1. They are formidable, the wild geese, in their numbers. They lie down in the rushes and become reeds. The leaf-shaped facts, in fact, have many shapes. Use reuses itself to become design- The sketcher's brushstroke determines the count and the light And how it is absorbed and at what angles. The beak that widened to meet the prey, The cry a half-tone higher. Literature is an infiltration of the mind By its stops. The mandarins stopped to wonder on the mountains. The echo of the chorus broke the sidewalk- People encumbered benches-vegetation- No conspiracy controlled the census list But it was misused A husband and wife argue about Christmas and Chanukah, They are formidable, the wild geese, even alone Even far from China flying over east coast waves near here At prodigal speeds alone and just above the water 2. You say beyond I say in time beyond And who knows whether the great painters of the old regime Were not in fact political monsters? Composing great annotations together for the wrong side? It is the sieve of words the wild geese flying The Luoyang exiles, the six vowels And a thousand years later the Luoyang fire The six avowals the six false promises the six days of creation the six sicknesses Clogs approach dogs on the yeast white sand By which we mean the murder of the seals Doctors in nineteenth-century English novels Approached their jobs according to their authors' Views as to whether the culture might be healed There were three quacks for every quail four quails For every raven and one blind eagle. But they reformed the blind craft and divided Into pharmacists, no longer peddling their drugs And the farsighted Oedipus the Cured Some of the leaves were punctured while alive 3. But here, in the diseased undercount They thought the word marsupial was witty Ti Yi failed to laugh at it on the haystack mountain and was banished For not having a "sense of humor" As they wrote with careful brushstrokes on the indictment And there were holes and punctures in the paper Left by the stylus of the people And that was made a joke and the wild geese crying Sounded like laughter or mourning to the official Listeners Artful complaint is never as murky as it seems All are freed by it-a little And artful compliance never as unforgivable Here is where shells insinuate clouds and mist Into history Despite the west wind They work like scribes glad to be accused of too much Obedience or obscurity. On the floors and walls they climb like chalk. The pari-mutuel parodists flatter the roundcheeked Laughers Desperate to see themselves as merry In the mirror they carry around with them. They are sprung but not freed. They take dictation >From the cage of comedy. It defines them. Reformulation gathers the vowels in As legal reform cannot Summon us with chapters of return 4. The cinnabar of banishment The primed mountains are full of filial herbs. Interns and residents traipse trellises or caves Taking brief time off when they can to nap: Each part of the body has its distinctive tiredness. The heart tires in its own iodine; a feeling different from the weariness Of the shoulders' gravel and the exhaustion of the differently graveled brain. Each hour of sleep denotes the rest Of devotion, and is devoted to one of the seven parts, It was all kabbalah, all the book of the body. Now there are three hundred thirty-seven thousand Days in the year, and a year is a dragon's empire, And time writes down what the single leaves could not. Promotion equals demotion the denotation of the soul Refining cinnabar in a night furnace Tinterns and interns glint the inner kiln They call the court the melting geodesic Dome the igloo aglow the banished rabbi Whose reticent political emotions guide the sefer Hedging; the hedges The cinnabar of banishment 5. The bird and the leaf who resemble each other In not staying lastingly on the tree Are not friends, are unaware of each other. They inhabit different corners of attention. Their departures are at their own rates, statistically speaking. They fold into their own collectives or unfold Wingspans against the humors of each of their worlds. They have no common reputations except in a language Different from any here: they unfold in the fog. from Pataphysics JACK COLLOM 3-4-00 Sundown at Walden Pond. Redwings singing, plump Canadas all around. "Whew!" say the starlings. Song-sparrow song breaks into delicacies I've never heard before. Meadowlark whistling on pink smear below three pictures: pasture, pits and refuge. Sun descending somewhere south of James. Hooded merganser swimming near the far (north) shore. Jet trails like 'live scars; something's happening up there. Sewage domes as ever silver the north edge. Long's peeks over-robin warble. Plane and glider. everything turns blue and I wonder again who's pushing who? from Ecopoetics both poems are taken from The Best American Poetry 2004 Guest Editor Lyn Hejinian Series Editor David Lehman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 17 15:57:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:57:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Something to look at at...(perhaps) Message-ID: In a message dated 2/16/2007 7:51:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, jorgensen_a at yahoo.com writes: I've attached a piece of work I'd like you to consider. I would appreciate any and all feedback. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen I didn't know attachments could go thru the listserv ungarbled. Anyway the title of your poem makes me think of Stevens...but the poem itself I see as 'eecummingsesque', in a good way. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 17 16:01:10 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:01:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert's house Message-ID: In a message dated 2/16/2007 11:26:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: I'm eagerly awaiting the appearance of Goldbarth's new & selected poems, due any day now from Graywolf. It has a great and perfectly apt title: *The Kitchen Sink*. There is something of the 'obsessive-compulsive' in Goldbarth, as evidenced by his space toy collection and by the chockful nature of his poetry. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Feb 17 16:09:42 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:09:42 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert's house In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F1A5C26-DE61-459B-AB92-21DF971596B4@ripon.edu> Eric McHenry published an interesting piece on Goldbarth in *Slate* a few years back. http://www.slate.com/id/2065330/ He tackles the usual critical reservation head on--that Goldbarth doesn't edit, but just dumps overwhelming amounts of unedited stuff on every page, that he writes poem after poem after poem in the same vein, etc. Here's a relevant para: "Needless to say, this isn't language distilled. But it isn't language diluted, either. Goldbarth manages to chuck compression without compromising intensity. He has developed a style that's effusive, sprawling, and instantly recognizable?an aesthetic that might best be characterized as "Why use one word when four will work just as well?" His poems do lack concentration in the most obvious sense of the word, but they make up for it with the other kind. Goldbarth pays rapt attention to the world around him, drawing one memorable connection after another: 'From my notebook:/ Kids fall onto the lawn, and meet their own shadows/ like scissors closing' " Needless to say, as a Goldbarth fan, I tend to agree with McHenry on this. He's abundant and obsessive, yes, but not easily dismissed as merely verbose. (Not that JimF is so dismissing him, of course--but it's a common complaint.) ----------------- On Feb 17, 2007, at 3:01 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/16/2007 11:26:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > I'm eagerly awaiting the appearance of Goldbarth's new & selected > poems, due any day now from Graywolf. It has a great and perfectly > apt title: *The Kitchen Sink*. > There is something of the 'obsessive-compulsive' in Goldbarth, as > evidenced > by his space toy collection and by the chockful nature of his poetry. > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 17 16:34:32 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:34:32 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] adventures in blogland Message-ID: _http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog/_ (http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog/) scourting about blogland I noticed that Mike Snider's blog is back in business. _http://reginaldshepherd.blogspot.com/_ (http://reginaldshepherd.blogspot.com/) I've been enjoying the longish entries (casual essays, you might call them) at Reginald Shepherd's blog too. Finnegan _http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 17 17:06:44 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 17:06:44 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others: Rae Armantrout, "Make It New" Message-ID: Make It New Shaking the parts of speech like fluff in a snow globe ? the way sleep scrambles life's detritus. Each poem says, "I'm desperate" then, "Everything must go!" (To hear something familiar here leads to careful laughter.) "Go" where? The steady pressure on the accelerator can be stipulated in advance as can the stubby bushes blurred by peripheral vision. And someone will have set down a diner or a gas station at a desolate crossroads and tried naming it to evoke the whole human situation while satirizing the impulse to do so. What that name will be is the one thing we don't know --Rae Armantrout, Next Life (Wesleyan University Press, 2007) ISBN:0-8195-6820-1, $22.95 found here... _http://poetry365.com/_ (http://poetry365.com/) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 17 17:25:57 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 17:25:57 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] a terrifying Frost Message-ID: Subterranean Frost Books BY ADAM KIRSCH February 12, 2007 URL: _http://www.nysun.com/article/48424_ (http://www.nysun.com/article/48424) In March 1959, at a dinner celebrating the 85th birthday of Robert Frost, the critic Lionel Trilling managed to accomplish something that few toast-masters in history have ever done: In his brief remarks, he permanently changed the way people think about his subject. Frost, Trilling said, had long been considered a folksy, unobjectionable poet, "an articulate Bald Eagle." In an age when writers such as Eliot and Stevens seemed like perverse highbrows, the common reader could feel vindicated in his bafflement by turning to schoolbook favorites such as "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" and "The Road Not Taken," with their traditional meter and New England dialect. Frost's popular Yankee image, which he assiduously cultivated through readings, lectures, and even some of his poems, helped him to win the immense popularity that he enjoyed in his lifetime: four Pulitzer Prizes, a spot on the dais at the Kennedy Inaugural. Yet Trilling recognized that the aged poet would not be helped in his passage to posterity by this Norman Rockwell carapace, which could only seem more fake and dated with the years. That is why Trilling insisted on calling Frost, to his face, "a terrifying poet." Really, he had less in common with Longfellow than with Sophocles, "who made plain ... the terrible things of human life." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sat Feb 17 19:37:04 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:37:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] MiPO next Friday, February 23rd @ 7 P.M. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <197737.73474.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ~~~ JENNIFER L. KNOX, SINA QUEYRAS, and ROBERT BOHM ~~~ Stain Bar, Brooklyn, NYC February 23, 2007 @ 7 P.M. ~~~~~~~~~ JENNIFER L. KNOX was born and raised in Lancaster, California, where absolutely anything can be made into a bong. Her work is featured in Best American Poetry 2006, and her book of poems, A Gringo Like Me, is available from Softskull Press. http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/knox_jennifer.htm SINA QUEYRAS'most recent collection of poetry, Lemon Hound, was published by Coach House Books in 2006. Last year she edited Open Field: 30 Contemporary Canadian Poets. She is contributing editor to Drunken Boat and co-curator of Belladonna reading series. This year she is visiting professor at Haverford College. Next year she is writer-in-residence at the University of Calgary. She wears a cape whenever possible and keeps a blog: http://lemonhound.blogspot.com. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/queyras_sina.html ROBERT BOHM is a poet and culture writer. He was born in Queens, NY. His new chapbook, Uz Um War Moan Ode, will be published in 2006 by Pudding House Press. His other credits include two books, another chapbook and work published in a variety of print and online publications. http://www.mipoesias.com/September2003/bohm.htm ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn, NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 ~~~~~~~~ Hope you?ll stop by! http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com/ http://www.mipoesias.com ~~~~~~~~ --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sat Feb 17 22:49:50 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 21:49:50 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems w/ dates Message-ID: <2DA7F339-D77F-4196-A3C7-23D91513C7DE@earthlink.net> December 28, 1974 The plants against the light which shines in (it's four o'clock) right on my chair: I'm in my chair: are silhouettes, barely green, growing black as my eyes move right, right to where the sun is. I am blinded by a fiery circle: I can't see what I write. A man comes down iron stairs (I don't look up) and picks up brushes which, against a sonata of Scriabin's, rattle like wind in a bamboo clump. A wooden sound, and purposeful footsteps softened by a drop-cloth-covered floor. To be encubed in flaming splendor, one foot on a Chinese rug, while the mad emotive music tears at my heart. Rip it open: I want to cleanse it in an icy wind. And what kind of tripe is that? Still, last night I did wish? no, that's my business and I don't wish it now. "Your poems," a clunkhead said, "have grown more open." I don't want to be open, merely to say, to see and say, things as they are. That at my elbow there is a wicker table. Hortus Second says a book. The fields beyond the feeding sparrows are brown, palely brown yet with an inward glow like that of someone of a frank good nature whom you trust. I want to hear the music hanging in the air and drink my Coca-Cola. The sun is off me now, the sky begins to color up, the air in here is filled with wildly flying notes. Yes, the sun moves off to the right and prepares to sink, setting, beyond the dunes, an ocean on fire. --James Schuyler Hal "The only thing that is not art is inattention." --Marcel Duchamp Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ATambellini01 Sat Feb 17 23:14:33 2007 From: ATambellini01 (ATambellini01 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 23:14:33 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] poems w/ dates Message-ID: I must say that I have never used titles on my poems but rather the date and time when I wrote it: August 3, 2006 5:30 P.M. can the poet?s rage match the devastating power of the killer?s missile can the words spell out barbarian devastation can spoken words rise above the explosion dismembering the child can he write the smell of human decay can the poet give consciousness to silence -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 18 09:59:55 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:59:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon Message-ID: <006901c7536d$73aac2e0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Paul Muldoon's poetry, suspicious of sanctimony and sentimentality and frankly addicted to puns, dares us to ask: is he serious? Although his previous book of poetry, "Moy Sand and Gravel," won the Pulitzer Prize in 2003, and Muldoon served from 1999 to 2004 as professor of poetry at Oxford (his august predecessors include Matthew Arnold, W. H. Auden and Muldoon's friend and fellow Northern Irishman Seamus Heaney), readers new to his poetry are likely to wonder if he's really serious, and others will already have decided that no, he isn't: his poetry is too full of games, too obscure, too clever. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/18/books/review/Hammer.t.html?8bu&emc=bu Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Sun Feb 18 13:27:31 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:27:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] O Valentine, O Violence -- NEW WORK UP In-Reply-To: <197737.73474.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070218182731.80170.qmail@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents MARTHE REED ? ? a bride/a dark-eyed? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/reed_marthe.htm TAO LIN ? ?alone in this room, i?m hungry, i miss you? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/lin_tao.htm CHRIS CRITTENDEN ? ?egg-laden heart,/each pump breaks a shell? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/crittenden_chris.htm CA CONRAD ? ?We kissed my/singing radio like/ this and this? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/conrad_ca.htm ERIN BERTRAM ? ?I have a tendency to fall in love with my friends.? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/bertram_erin.htm BLAKE BUTLER ? ?1. In the apartment next door, they?re having sex.? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/butler_blake.htm ANDREW DEMCAK ? ?Our sperm medicinally coffined.? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/demcak_andrew.htm ERIK SWEET ? ?A rewinding of love greatly misappropriated? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/sweet_erik.htm TODD BURRITT ? ?The bent staples mean somebody was frustrated.? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/burritt_todd.htm MICHAEL PARKER REVIEWS ?WANTON TEXTILES? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/parker_michael_wantontextitles.htm ELISA GABBERT & KATHLEEN ROONEY ? ?I have a bruise on my thigh that looks like a galaxy? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/gabbert_rooney.htm ALEXANDER DICKOW ? ?Puppydog bees/and birds with trees? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/dickow_alexander.htm GINA ABELKOP ? ?In her sharp bob she/apes providence, think? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/abelkop_gina.htm JOHN COTTER & SHAFER HALL ? ?Palomino, Palomino, never give your goodies up? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/cotter_hall.htm TARASHEA NESBIT ? ?Moth orchids. Desire.? http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/nesbit_tarashea.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.mipoesias.com/2007/ http://www.mipoesias.com http://miporeadingseries2007.blogspot.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 18 13:55:58 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:55:58 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] long love for Longfellow Message-ID: _http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/070218longfellow4.html_ (http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/070218longfellow4.html) Poet finds much to love in Longfellow Reader Comments (below) By RAY ROUTHIER, Staff Writer Sunday, February 18, 2007 HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW Visit our special section to: Listen to Longfellow poetry. Readings by: Angus King, Tess Gerritsen and Tom Allen. That's why a young Annie Finch was drawn to the work of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Longfellow was the great American poet of his time, a national celebrity in the 1800s. But growing up in New Rochelle, N.Y., in the 1950s and 1960s, Finch still liked the stories he told: of America's settlement in "The Courtship of Miles Standish," of the Colonies' fight for freedom in "Paul Revere's Ride," and of American Indians in "The Song of Hiawatha." Longfellow told the sometimes-forgotten story of the Acadian exile from Canada in "Evangeline." "I read poetry all over the place when I was young, but what I remember about Longfellow was that he told stories," -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 18 15:04:54 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:04:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long love for Longfellow References: Message-ID: <017a01c75398$0e7a9f00$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> That's what Miles Davis said, when asked what he could possibly see in country music. "The stories, man...the stories." Miles was right, Annie was right. You gotta love a great story. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] long love for Longfellow http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/070218longfellow4.html Poet finds much to love in Longfellow Reader Comments (below) By RAY ROUTHIER, Staff Writer Sunday, February 18, 2007 HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW Visit our special section to: Listen to Longfellow poetry. Readings by: Angus King, Tess Gerritsen and Tom Allen. That's why a young Annie Finch was drawn to the work of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Longfellow was the great American poet of his time, a national celebrity in the 1800s. But growing up in New Rochelle, N.Y., in the 1950s and 1960s, Finch still liked the stories he told: of America's settlement in "The Courtship of Miles Standish," of the Colonies' fight for freedom in "Paul Revere's Ride," and of American Indians in "The Song of Hiawatha." Longfellow told the sometimes-forgotten story of the Acadian exile from Canada in "Evangeline." "I read poetry all over the place when I was young, but what I remember about Longfellow was that he told stories," ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Sun Feb 18 16:39:30 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:39:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet ID Message-ID: <000c01c753a5$460c7800$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Anyone know a poem called "Countryman" and who the poet might be? The first three lines are: "He knew where the pheasants fed And the half-wild cats sheltered And adopted them all." Thanks for any help you can offer. Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 18 17:28:27 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:28:27 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Oliver overcomes a bad review, and how... Message-ID: Also from the NYT's Sunday Book Review... OLIVER?S ARMY: Mary Oliver?s first book of poems, ?No Voyage? (1965), was reviewed in this publication by James Dickey, who dumped all over it. (?She is good, but predictably good; one could have foretold her from reading anthologies and the poetry magazines of the day. She never seems quite to be in her poems, as adroit as some of them are, but is always outside them, putting them together from the available literary elements.?) The last laugh has been Oliver?s; she went on to win a _Pulitzer Prize_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/p/pulitzer_prizes/index.html?inline=nyt-classif ier) in 1984 and a National Book Award in 1992. First editions of ?No Voyage ? are selling on used-book sites for as much as $900 (unsigned!). Forty-two years after Dickey?s review, Oliver?s epiphanic nature poems still divide critics. But at 71 she is, far and away, this country?s best-selling poet. According to the _list_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/publishing/bestsellers.Contemporary.html) on _poetryfoundation.org_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/) , the top 15 best-selling poetry volumes in America as of mid-January included no fewer than five Mary Oliver titles, all published by Beacon Press of Boston. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 18 18:25:35 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 18:25:35 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... Message-ID: Suzanne, even though I posted the link (reposted below) I just got around to reading this piece. It' s a little backhanded, I think. I understand the suspicion ?money mixed with poetry? engenders...they've been such estranged relatives for so long...but I feel that it's wrong to suggest that initiatives toward promoting the art of poetry, at large, among the general public, are all wrong. Certainly most of popularizing impulses will miss their marks badly, but poetry, or all the arts, has the least resources to spend on promoting itself. Every local symphony or art museum has a budget that would make a typical poetry promoter feel like a hip-hop mogul. Poetry, of all the arts, risks slipping into the realm of ?pigeon raising? and ?basketry?, it may be seen as nothing more than some harmless hobby. If poetry wants to be an art, shoulder to shoulder with visual arts , theatre, music or even opera (what?s the Met?s annual budget?), it?s got to do a little work. It?s got to try. Writing down to an audience is going to do the job. Trying to clone Billy Collins and Mary Oliver won?t work either. But every effort may, in some small way, reach a few of the 'half-inclined to pay attention' to this sullen art & craft and to convert them into real fans. It?s not stadia we need fill?but the difference between getting 5 people to attend a poetry reading and getting 50 into hte house is real quantum leap. Martial, the Roman poet, said it well when he said (rough paraphrase of the translated Latin) ?a poem that isn?t read isn?t a poem?. We can?t be completely dismissive of doing a little to meet halfway the potential audience for our art. Putting a good poem in a subway train (or slot machine) or slipping a poetry anthology into a random hotel room (Jos. Brodsky?s bright idea) nestled next to the Gideon?s Bible, are small efforts of guerilla marketing that I can get behind. Much of what the Poetry Foundation is doing will be a complete belly flop. But sometimes, someone gets splashed by one of those flops, and is refreshed by the unexpected spray. Finnegan _http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear_ (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear) In a message dated 2/14/2007 10:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, queenmouse at gmail.com writes: Good article. I particularly like the quote from my old classmate, Joel Brower. Couldn't have said this better myself: Joel Brouwer, a poet reviewing a collection in the Times Book Review in December, wrote, "Contemporary poetry's great good fortune (despite contrary claims from certain hand-wringers mad to see poems affixed to every slot-machine, taxi stand and flowerpot in the land) is that it has no mass market, and so no call to pander." I have come to realize that of the things that makes poetry valuable to me is precisely that it *isn't* a commodity that can be harnessed up to make money. It is therefore free to do a different kind of work. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Feb 18 23:17:15 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:17:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Oliver overcomes a bad review, and how... Message-ID: In a message dated 2/18/2007 5:29:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: Also from the NYT's Sunday Book Review... OLIVER?S ARMY: Mary Oliver?s first book of poems, ?No Voyage? (1965), was reviewed in this publication by James Dickey, who dumped all over it. (?She is good, but predictably good; one could have foretold her from reading anthologies and the poetry magazines of the day. She never seems quite to be in her poems, as adroit as some of them are, but is always outside them, putting them together from the available literary elements.?) The last laugh has been Oliver?s; she went on to win a _Pulitzer Prize_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/p/pulitzer_prizes/index.html?inline=nyt-classif ier) in 1984 and a National Book Award in 1992. First editions of ?No Voyage ? are selling on used-book sites for as much as $900 (unsigned!). Forty-two years after Dickey?s review, Oliver?s epiphanic nature poems still divide critics. But at 71 she is, far and away, this country?s best-selling poet. According to the _list_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/publishing/bestsellers.Contemporary.html) on _poetryfoundation.org_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/) , the top 15 best-selling poetry volumes in America as of mid-January included no fewer than five Mary Oliver titles, all published by Beacon Press of Boston. None of which really has anything to do with the content of Dickey's review. Me, I'll take one James Dickey over a dozen Mary Olivers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Feb 18 23:21:13 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 23:21:13 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Oliver overcomes a bad review, and how... Message-ID: In a message dated 2/18/2007 11:17:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: In a message dated 2/18/2007 5:29:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: Also from the NYT's Sunday Book Review... OLIVER?S ARMY: Mary Oliver?s first book of poems, ?No Voyage? (1965), was reviewed in this publication by James Dickey, who dumped all over it. (?She is good, but predictably good; one could have foretold her from reading anthologies and the poetry magazines of the day. She never seems quite to be in her poems, as adroit as some of them are, but is always outside them, putting them together from the available literary elements.?) The last laugh has been Oliver?s; she went on to win a _Pulitzer Prize_ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/p/pulitzer_prizes/index.html?inline=nyt-classif ier) in 1984 and a National Book Award in 1992. First editions of ?No Voyage ? are selling on used-book sites for as much as $900 (unsigned!). Forty-two years after Dickey?s review, Oliver?s epiphanic nature poems still divide critics. But at 71 she is, far and away, this country?s best-selling poet. According to the _list_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/publishing/bestsellers.Contemporary.html) on _poetryfoundation.org_ (http://poetryfoundation.org/) , the top 15 best-selling poetry volumes in America as of mid-January included no fewer than five Mary Oliver titles, all published by Beacon Press of Boston. None of which really has anything to do with the content of Dickey's review. Me, I'll take one James Dickey over a dozen Mary Olivers. _______________________________________________ I spoke impolitely. But my point remains--I value the best of Dickey's work much more than I ever will value Mary Oliver's. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Feb 19 07:16:18 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 07:16:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Oliver overcomes a bad review, and how... References: d60.294964b.330a7ecb@aol.com Message-ID: <002501c7541f$c43ab690$59fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> OLIVER?S ARMY: Mary Oliver?s first book of poems, ?No Voyage? (1965), was reviewed in this publication by James Dickey, who dumped all over it. (?She is good, but predictably good; one could have foretold her from reading anthologies and the poetry magazines of the day. She never seems quite to be in her poems, as adroit as some of them are, but is always outside them, putting them together from the available literary elements.?) The last laugh has been Oliver?s; she went on to win a Pulitzer Prize in 1984 and a National Book Award in 1992. First editions of ?No Voyage? are selling on used-book sites for as much as $900 (unsigned!). Forty-two years after Dickey?s review, Oliver?s epiphanic nature poems still divide critics. But at 71 she is, far and away, this country?s best-selling poet. According to the list on poetryfoundation.org, the top 15 best-selling poetry volumes in America as of mid-January included no fewer than five Mary Oliver titles, all published by Beacon Press of Boston. None of which really has anything to do with the content of Dickey's review. Me, I'll take one James Dickey over a dozen Mary Olivers. Right. I don't think Dickey would have been at all surprised by her "success." Seems to me he predicted it in his review. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens Mon Feb 19 09:02:33 2007 From: amyhappens (amy king) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 06:02:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] EVIE SHOCKLEY GUEST EDITS MIPOESIAS In-Reply-To: <20070218182731.80170.qmail@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <418224.57995.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents [http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE] Evie Shockley, Guest Editor A. Van Jordan Aracelis Girmay Brandon D. Johnson C.S. Giscombe Camille Dungy Carl Martin Cherryl Floyd-Miller Christian Campbell Christopher Stackhouse Derrick Weston Brown Douglas Kearney Duriel E. Harris Ed Roberson G.E. Patterson Geoffrey Jacques giovanni singleton kim d. hunter Kyle G. Dargan L. Teresa Church Lenard D. Moore Lyrae Van Clief-Stefanon Marilyn Nelson Meghan Punschke Mendi Lewis Obadike Opal Moore Raina Leon Reginald Harris Reginald Shepherd Tara Betts Thylias Moss Tonya Foster Treasure Williams Tyrone Williams http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 19 10:29:23 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:29:23 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet ID Message-ID: In a message dated 2/18/2007 4:39:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, suelin7184 at gmail.com writes: Anyone know a poem called "Countryman" and who the poet might be? The first three lines are: "He knew where the pheasants fed And the half-wild cats sheltered And adopted them all." Thanks for any help you can offer. Both the British Poetry Library (closed due to renovations) and Scottish Poetry Libraray have lost quotations pages...where sometimes people are able to get help finding the author or a poem title based on a snippet or half-remembered quote. This would be nice thing for Academy of American Poets or the Poetry Foundation, flush with cash and intent on flushing it fast, to start... _http://www.poetrylibrary.org.uk/queries/lostquotes/_ (http://www.poetrylibrary.org.uk/queries/lostquotes/) (http://www.poetrylibrary.org.uk/queries/lostquotes/) _www.spl.org.uk/lost/lost.html_ (http://www.spl.org.uk/lost/lost.html) They always seem several hours ahead of us over there on the other side of the Atlantic... I guess preemptively laying claim to Greenwich Mean Time helped. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 19 11:11:09 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:11:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet ID References: Message-ID: <010d01c75440$914692b0$79ad3452@ANNY> It might be right for Scotland and/or England but if they are slow down here... I bet you can hear them snoring. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:29 PM Both the British Poetry Library (closed due to renovations) and Scottish Poetry Libraray have lost quotations pages...where sometimes people are able to get help finding the author or a poem title based on a snippet or half-remembered quote. This would be nice thing for Academy of American Poets or the Poetry Foundation, flush with cash and intent on flushing it fast, to start... http://www.poetrylibrary.org.uk/queries/lostquotes/ www.spl.org.uk/lost/lost.html They always seem several hours ahead of us over there on the other side of the Atlantic... I guess preemptively laying claim to Greenwich Mean Time helped. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 19 14:13:53 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:13:53 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Year of the Pig Message-ID: It's the Year of the Pig, so here' s David Lee reading 'Racehogs' from Porcine Canticles... _http://www.rutledge.com/esoterica/eso.html_ (http://www.rutledge.com/esoterica/eso.html) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 19 15:26:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:26:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Year of the Pig References: Message-ID: <003401c75464$480cf520$86de3052@ANNY> I couldn't but laugh... and still do if I think of it, From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:13 PM It's the Year of the Pig, so here' s David Lee reading 'Racehogs' from Porcine Canticles... http://www.rutledge.com/esoterica/eso.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 19 15:59:33 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 21:59:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Buffalo Message-ID: <004801c75468$db568180$86de3052@ANNY> THE EXHIBIT X FICTION SERIES PRESENTS novelist and short story writer DAVE KRESS Wednesday, February 21 8:00pm Hallwalls at The Church 341 Delaware Avenue Buffalo, NY DAVE KRESS is the author of two works of fiction: Counting Zero, a novel, and Martians, a creature. A new novel, Glorified-or-Thermometers of God, will be published in 2007. He is an Assistant Professor of English at the University of Maine, Orono, where he teaches creative writing and contemporary literature. "Dave Kress's first novel reminds us how intelligent a form the novel can be, in the right hands. Counting Zero is a keenly apprehended story, written with articulate zest and a voracious appetite for the things of everyday life seen in consummate detail. Mr. Kress has begun what promises to be a sparkling career as a novelist. Yes, Virginia, there are still some stylists on the Rialto." --Paul West FORTHCOMING EXHIBIT X EVENTS: Percival Everett, Friday March 2, 7pm Shelley Jackson, Friday March 30, 7pm Joanna Scott, Thursday April 19, 7pm More information about our guests, as well as streaming video of our past events, can be found at www.english.buffalo.edu/exhibitx. Best, Christina -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 19 19:38:07 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:38:07 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] 'nother blog of note Message-ID: Greg Rappleye's blog 'Sonnets at 4 AM'... _http://sonnetsat4am.blogspot.com/_ (http://sonnetsat4am.blogspot.com/) Nice Carruth quote today...and an 'industrial gothic' poem that would make Sinclair Lewis blanch. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 19 19:43:19 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:43:19 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] 'nother blog of note Message-ID: In a message dated 2/19/2007 7:38:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: Greg Rappleye's blog 'Sonnets at 4 AM'... _http://sonnetsat4am.blogspot.com/_ (http://sonnetsat4am.blogspot.com/) Nice Carruth quote today...and an 'industrial gothic' poem that would make Sinclair Lewis blanch. Finnegan That's Upton Sinclair...I meant. Typing faster than I can think as usual. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse Tue Feb 20 10:05:46 2007 From: queenmouse (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:05:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Poetry, of all the arts, risks slipping into the realm of "pigeon raising" and "basketry", it may be seen as nothing more than some harmless hobby. If poetry wants to be an art, shoulder to shoulder with visual arts , theatre, music or even opera (what's the Met's annual budget?), it's got to do a little work. It's got to try. I agree with you completely on this, and personally I roll my eyes when people get all sentimental about how spiritually pure poverty is etc. etc. (I remember Jack used to take the position that the best way to improve poetry would be to take away all of the money and he would rail about how many poets live in nice houses these days, but I think he overlooked the fact that most of those "nice houses" were paid for by fall-time academic salaries and spouses who worked as lawyers.) So let me clarify how I feel: No amount of money is going to turn poetry into a "commodity". I think poetry stands outside of that economy-- mainly because the hugely popular audience that exists for, say, broadway musicals doesn't exist. (BTW, I don't think it can be compared to opera not only becasue the audience is different, but because opera wouldn't exist at all without the kind of massive budget the MET gets. Its a high maitenance art!) I think even if you figured out which poet of our time has made the most money off of poetry and divided it all up by how much time they put into working on their craft, the numbers still aren't going to work out in a way that would satisfy someone who is truly profit-minded. I work in technology-- you want to meet people who are profit-minded? I'll show you people who know how to think about and are ruthless about those numbers. (And some of these same people love poetry and read Stevens and Merrill with the same passion I do-- they aren't bad or shallow people or less about the things that aren;t about profit). Poetry just isn't going to compete in this arena. I have to wonder how anyone has come to expect it to do so. This for me is one of the things that makes poetry really important-- its not a commodity. For me it is a sanctuary where I can escape the accountants and focus on something much more vital. I value most the things in my life that have no profit motive. Stepchildren, pets, handknit sweaters, gardens, poetry, keeping notebooks, writing letters, the book arts.... So this is where essentially I agree with Joel when he points out the flaws in thinking about how to make poetry more profitable or popular. I would also add that I think it is a forgone conclusion. Poetry is only going to be so popular no matter what you do. I don't think it is wasted effort-- I just don't think it is the "answer". I don't have a problem with plastering poems in subways or on billboards-- though I think you would agree that this sort of publication is going to work better for some poems than others. I have no problem with that. But I guess what I really feel is that people who love poetry and who will ultimately be its readers are going to find their way there anyway. I am less interested in putting money into big plans to make poetry more popular and more interested in seeing small presses that go out on a limb and publish challenging, top quality work survive. Honestly, I think if poetry is seeing any kind of lag right now it might because we are in a time of great change, especially in publishing, and poetry is changing and expanding right along with everything else and as a result is probably more decentralized than it has ever been. Some people need to feel like there is one primary aesthetic touchstone (or big ego) against which everything else is measured and worry deeply if it is not there, but maybe what we are seeing is actually a needed paradigm shift. Give it time. I also get a little tired of the "Oooooh! Poetry is dying! Ooooohhh! We are seeing the end of the book! Oooohhhhh! Multi-media is killing literacy!" crowd. Please. I think a little mingling with the other arts and a willingness to experiment in different media and try new things would do a lot to energize literature, as would a willingness to recognize that poetry has always had its performance side. (This, by the way, has and would probably continue to do a lot to expand the audience for poetry). Okay, that's my blather for the morning! Cheerful, Suzanne On 2/18/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Suzanne, even though I posted the link (reposted below) I just got > around to > > reading this piece. It' s a little backhanded, I think. I understand the > suspicion > > 'money mixed with poetry' engenders...they've been such estranged > relatives > > for so long...but I feel that it's wrong to suggest that initiatives > toward promoting > > the art of poetry, at large, among the general public, are all wrong. > Certainly most > > of popularizing impulses will miss their marks badly, but poetry, or all > the arts, has > > the least resources to spend on promoting itself. Every local symphony or > art museum > > has a budget that would make a typical poetry promoter feel like a hip-hop > mogul. > > Poetry, of all the arts, risks slipping into the realm of "pigeon raising" > and "basketry", > > it may be seen as nothing more than some harmless hobby. If poetry wants > to be an art, > > shoulder to shoulder with visual arts , theatre, music or even opera > (what's the > > Met's annual budget?), it's got to do a little work. It's got to try. > > > > Writing down to an audience is going to do the job. Trying to clone Billy > Collins and > > Mary Oliver won't work either. But every effort may, in some small way, > reach > > a few of the 'half-inclined to pay attention' to this sullen art & craft > and to > > convert them into real fans. It's not stadia we need fill?but the > difference between > > getting 5 people to attend a poetry reading and getting 50 into hte > house is real > > quantum leap. Martial, the Roman poet, said it well when he said (rough > paraphrase > > of the translated Latin) 'a poem that isn't read isn't a poem'. We can't > be completely > > dismissive of doing a little to meet halfway the potential audience for > our art. Putting > > a good poem in a subway train (or slot machine) or slipping a poetry > anthology into a > > random hotel room (Jos. Brodsky's bright idea) nestled next to the > Gideon's Bible, > > are small efforts of guerilla marketing that I can get behind. Much of > what the Poetry > > Foundation is doing will be a complete belly flop. But sometimes, someone > gets > > splashed by one of those flops, and is refreshed by the unexpected spray. > Finnegan > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear > In a message dated 2/14/2007 10:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > queenmouse at gmail.com writes: > > Good article. I particularly like the quote from my old classmate, Joel > Brower. Couldn't have said this better myself: > > Joel Brouwer, a poet reviewing a collection in the Times Book Review in > December, wrote, "Contemporary poetry's great good fortune (despite contrary > claims from certain hand-wringers mad to see poems affixed to every > slot-machine, taxi stand and flowerpot in the land) is that it has no mass > market, and so no call to pander." > > I have come to realize that of the things that makes poetry valuable to me > is precisely that it *isn't* a commodity that can be harnessed up to make > money. It is therefore free to do a different kind of work. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do not know the way." Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 20 10:55:39 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:55:39 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Stipulations" Message-ID: <59C0F0E4-E9BC-4365-9720-6CABCD431D63@earthlink.net> Stipulations Ghostly instead, they chronicle their most horrid neighbors. Standard ground-based tools put an end to night skies everywhere. Newspapers promise more accurate obits whether their subjects are living or dead. My mother was thirty times more sensitive than my father on all but the most august occasions. Mac Low said, "Every text worth reading is a manifesto." I say, whoop-dee-doo! Fat lazy dogs forever! Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 20 11:23:39 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:23:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Stipulations" References: <59C0F0E4-E9BC-4365-9720-6CABCD431D63@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007801c7550b$7b1ae5b0$fbed3652@ANNY> Well, believe it or not but I just finished writing this; I am well aware that a newspaper would have done a better job, at least me as a journalist I would have been more accurate (as an answer to Mawiyah Bomani's poem): oh you mean the chatty ducks there is a prototype who lives right in front of me a shining trombone, an unidentified mixture or reality shows the bad picture of any caricature you can see funny to say she can't even speak proper Italian I wish someone would use her words as a tornado and suck her out of the worlds the Faker's I knew a false couple who manipulated so much their hands were as large as the earth she as fat as a fart him skinny and short I sometimes thought what was the good of it to be glorified while knowing you had faked it all. From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:55 PM Stipulations Ghostly instead, they chronicle their most horrid neighbors. Standard ground-based tools put an end to night skies everywhere. Newspapers promise more accurate obits whether their subjects are living or dead. My mother was thirty times more sensitive than my father on all but the most august occasions. Mac Low said, "Every text worth reading is a manifesto." I say, whoop-dee-doo! Fat lazy dogs forever! Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Tue Feb 20 12:28:39 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:28:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Princeton Encyclopedia to get overhaul Message-ID: <8C9232BB1AA6158-F04-161C@mblk-r32.sysops.aol.com> > Dear Friends and Colleagues: > > Do you know or use the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics > in any or all of its three editions (1965, 1974, 1993)? Have you > found something useful in it? Do you wish it contained something it > lacks? If you don't spend much time with poetry, do you know > someone elsewhere who does? > > Preparation of a fourth edition has begun, and both Roland Greene, > who is Editor-in-Chief, and I, as General Editor, would welcome any > and all suggestions and thoughts about which entries to keep, which > to drop, which to add. We have begun working our way through the > 1700 entries of the third edition in order to make these decisions, > and that work should occupy us for the next month or so. If you > have ideas or suggestions, please send them along during this time > (rgreene at stanford.edu or sbc9g at virginia.edu). > > And please feel free to forward this message far and wide to > colleagues working with poetry in any language throughout the > United States and in other countries. The Princeton Encyclopedia > has users around the world, and we are trying to cast a world-wide > net. > > Gratefully, > > Steve > > > Stephen Cushman > Department of English > University of Virginia > 219 Bryan Hall > P.O. Box 400121 > Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121 > > tel: 434-924-6676 > fax: 434-924-1478 > email: sbc9g at virginia.edu > ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 20 13:20:04 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:20:04 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Nick Piombino Message-ID: <003801c7551b$be1df220$fbed3652@ANNY> Please come celebrate the publication of Nick Piombino's *fait accompli* (with an afterword by Gary Sullivan) from Factory School's Heretical Texts http://www.factoryschool.org/pubs/heretical/vol3/piombino/index.html TUESDAY, February 27 at 8pm. at UNNAMEABLE BOOKS 456 Bergen Street Brooklyn NY 11217 (off Flatbush Avenue) (718) 789 1534 unnameablebooks at earthlink.net www.unnameablebooks.net Easy* to get to. Take the 2 or 3 train to Bergen street stop (not to be confused with the other Bergen stop on the F line). Unnameable Books is just 1/2 block from the subway. Pinchik paint is on the corner. *Bergen is one stop past the Atlantic AND Pacific St transfer point with the D,M,N,R and B,Q,2,3,4,5 lines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A wonderful BOOK - I received my copy today! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Tue Feb 20 14:41:48 2007 From: editor (editor at drunkenpoets.com) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:41:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] www.drunkenpoets.com opens submission calls for poetry In-Reply-To: <200702201700.l1KH05t6005587@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702201700.l1KH05t6005587@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <62953.72.38.208.245.1172000508.squirrel@webmail.netfirms.com> Hi to all on list, DrunkenPoets (ISSN: 1492-9619)has a general call out for poetry, poetics and short stories submissions for the upcoming spring 2007 edition. DrunkenPoets as a publication maintains that government funded art initiatives run the risk of creating artists that act as outsourced propaganda departments of the government and as such produce art of little cultural value. As such we encourage artists that veiw this statement a truism to submit and help this small corner of the dialectic grow in strength. Submission guidelines can be reviewed at: http://www.drunkenpoets.com/index_files/current/sub_guidelin.htm Please visit the main page www.drunkenpoets.com and flow links to past issues and to online submission page. Thanks Derek Prowse ed. www.drunkenpoets.com From barry.spacks Tue Feb 20 17:41:04 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:41:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: YET ANOTHER BLOG In-Reply-To: <200702201700.l1KH05t5005587@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702201700.l1KH05t5005587@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <6088B609-D1A2-4129-96DE-294E765A2ADE@verizon.net> I'm a Newbie Blogger, couldn't resist; those desperate for further bloggification, please tune in to my brief natterings at: http://barryspacks.blogspot.com/ From LauraHeidy Tue Feb 20 17:44:03 2007 From: LauraHeidy (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:44:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: YET ANOTHER BLOG Message-ID: In a message dated 2/20/2007 5:41:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: http://barryspacks.blogspot.com/ I'm not sure who wrote "Seagulls" but it cracked me up. I have no idea why I like it, but I do. Lo www.lauraheidy.blogspot.com


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Check out free AOL at http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and much more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Tue Feb 20 20:31:16 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:31:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Auden at the Dinner Table Message-ID: <001301c75557$fbac7e90$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Do you carry Dickinson's stanzas in your pocket? Do you recite Auden at the dinner table-without any prompting? Do you download more poems to your iPod than songs? Perhaps you're the person who celebrates National Poetry Month all year long-and in a way we can only imagine! In anticipation of National Poetry Month 2007, The Academy of American Poets is looking for America's biggest poetry fans: people who demonstrate a passion for poetry that goes beyond the usual. We'll select America's biggest poetry fans to receive prize packages including poetry books, CDs, t-shirts and tote bags. In addition, selected fans will have their submissions and profiles posted on Poets.org. We're hoping to choose one winner for each of the most popular poets on Poets.org: a.. Emily Dickinson a.. Walt Whitman a.. Langston Hughes a.. William Carlos Williams a.. Sylvia Plath a.. Pablo Neruda a.. William Shakespeare a.. Dylan Thomas a.. E. E. Cummings a.. Robert Frost a.. W.H. Auden You don't see your favorite poet on the list? You can still enter. Write to us about your favorite poet. In addition to those above, we'll select a fan of one other poet listed on Poets.org. Click here for a full list of eligible poets. (Note: you can't vote for yourself.) Think I'd have a shot with my Auden poem? Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Feb 20 22:12:25 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:12:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Santa Fe Writers Conference Message-ID:


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Check out free AOL at http://free.aol.com/thenewaol/index.adp. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and much more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Southwest Literary Center" Subject: 2007 Santa Fe Writers Conference Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:20:51 -0700 Size: 12011 URL: From cstroffo Wed Feb 21 01:15:58 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:15:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yah, baby... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E308CA6-FDEB-4EF8-9FF9-987BF2C1BC39@earthlink.net> Suzanne, thanks for the clarification/elaboration. Personally, I try to maintain some kind of balance between the "poetry makes nothing happen" and "it's okay if it's marginal" position on one hand and the "popularizing, populist" kind of position. Sometimes I've leaned, even extremely, to one side--- depending on various personal situations but also on the context, who I'm talking with, thinking about, etc.... I've been wondering as to whether such a balance, or tension, or at least dialogue, between these two notions of poetry's (and/or people who call themselves poets) place in social contexts may be considered a form of indecisiveness (my own), in a perjorative way....but even if I may currently "err" on one side of the argument (as previously I may have "erred" on the other), I still believe both arguments can be complementary to each other..... I've been thinking about how I first started considering "being a poet" in the mid 1980s, and the two first anthologies of contemporary poetry I read (The Ellman O'Clair blue-yellow Norton, and the Light greenish Poulin anthology) painted a beautifully pretty broad (capacious) of the range of possibilities in what was then "contemporary poetry" (AH, 811.54. Is it still that? I haven't checked in a while)-- Allen Ginsberg aside of James Merrill; Adrienne Rich aside of Richard Hugo, John Ashbery beside Carolyn Kizer, Amiri Baraka beside William Stafford, etc. But, how, increasingly the "populist" (or at least popular) side of that equation became less represented in the subsequent 20 years. Sometimes I call this, "the erasure of the raw" (borrowing from those 'problematic'--yes--but nonetheless not invaluable shorthand debates on 'raw' vs. 'cooked')----but rather than simply LAMENTING the loss of that time compared today, I try to, at least intellectually, accept that the time I came into poetry (with Ginsberg and Merrill side by side as CONTEMPORARIES) is, in the broader scheme of the history of poetry, at least in the USA, an ANOMALY, and that therefore the feeling of lopsidedness, and lack of balance, I feel in much of the contemporary poetry scenes, may be by own hangup, when people 20 years younger than me, coming to poetry differently, might more often have much more in common with the pre-"New American Poetry" attitude. So, I try to put my own potentially dogmatic attitude into some kind of historical perspective, even as I still believe it was better for the vitality of the art that, say, Ginsberg's popularizing, actually created space for more 'purist' poets such as Creeley, and many others (even later, people like Notley). And though the words of the prophets aren't always written on the subway walls either, I have a really hard time continuing to go to, much less 'read' (perform) at venues in which only other poets are in the audience. Others take comfort in that, and I respect that, but for me personally, well I can relate to, say, Kenneth Koch's "Fresh Air" (from 50ish years ago) as a satire on from a certain perspective much of the 'poetry world' socially is similar to 'pre- beat' 1954. Not necessarily better or worse, except when people start saying it's better that makes it worse. I know, in terms of gender balance, it was much worse than, but that's a separate issue (though race and class come into play here too.....but I've said enough for now....) Chris On Feb 20, 2007, at 7:05 AM, Suzanne Burns wrote: > Poetry, of all the arts, risks slipping into the realm of "pigeon > raising" and "basketry", > it may be seen as nothing more than some harmless hobby. If poetry > wants to be an art, > shoulder to shoulder with visual arts , theatre, music or even > opera (what's the > Met's annual budget?), it's got to do a little work. It's got to try. > > I agree with you completely on this, and personally I roll my eyes > when people get all sentimental about how spiritually pure poverty > is etc. etc. (I remember Jack used to take the position that the > best way to improve poetry would be to take away all of the money > and he would rail about how many poets live in nice houses these > days, but I think he overlooked the fact that most of those "nice > houses" were paid for by fall-time academic salaries and spouses > who worked as lawyers.) > > So let me clarify how I feel: > > No amount of money is going to turn poetry into a "commodity". I > think poetry stands outside of that economy-- mainly because the > hugely popular audience that exists for, say, broadway musicals > doesn't exist. (BTW, I don't think it can be compared to opera not > only becasue the audience is different, but because opera wouldn't > exist at all without the kind of massive budget the MET gets. Its > a high maitenance art!) I think even if you figured out which poet > of our time has made the most money off of poetry and divided it > all up by how much time they put into working on their craft, the > numbers still aren't going to work out in a way that would satisfy > someone who is truly profit-minded. > > I work in technology-- you want to meet people who are profit- > minded? I'll show you people who know how to think about and are > ruthless about those numbers. (And some of these same people love > poetry and read Stevens and Merrill with the same passion I do-- > they aren't bad or shallow people or less about the things that > aren;t about profit). Poetry just isn't going to compete in this > arena. I have to wonder how anyone has come to expect it to do so. > > This for me is one of the things that makes poetry really > important-- its not a commodity. For me it is a sanctuary where I > can escape the accountants and focus on something much more vital. > I value most the things in my life that have no profit motive. > Stepchildren, pets, handknit sweaters, gardens, poetry, keeping > notebooks, writing letters, the book arts.... > > So this is where essentially I agree with Joel when he points out > the flaws in thinking about how to make poetry more profitable or > popular. I would also add that I think it is a forgone > conclusion. Poetry is only going to be so popular no matter what > you do. I don't think it is wasted effort-- I just don't think it > is the "answer". > > I don't have a problem with plastering poems in subways or on > billboards-- though I think you would agree that this sort of > publication is going to work better for some poems than others. I > have no problem with that. But I guess what I really feel is that > people who love poetry and who will ultimately be its readers are > going to find their way there anyway. I am less interested in > putting money into big plans to make poetry more popular and more > interested in seeing small presses that go out on a limb and > publish challenging, top quality work survive. > > Honestly, I think if poetry is seeing any kind of lag right now it > might because we are in a time of great change, especially in > publishing, and poetry is changing and expanding right along with > everything else and as a result is probably more decentralized than > it has ever been. Some people need to feel like there is one > primary aesthetic touchstone (or big ego) against which everything > else is measured and worry deeply if it is not there, but maybe > what we are seeing is actually a needed paradigm shift. Give it time. > > I also get a little tired of the "Oooooh! Poetry is dying! > Ooooohhh! We are seeing the end of the book! Oooohhhhh! Multi- > media is killing literacy!" crowd. Please. I think a little > mingling with the other arts and a willingness to experiment in > different media and try new things would do a lot to energize > literature, as would a willingness to recognize that poetry has > always had its performance side. (This, by the way, has and would > probably continue to do a lot to expand the audience for poetry). > > Okay, that's my blather for the morning! > > Cheerful, > > Suzanne > > > > > On 2/18/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Suzanne, even though I posted the link (reposted below) I just got > around to > reading this piece. It' s a little backhanded, I think. I > understand the suspicion > 'money mixed with poetry' engenders...they've been such estranged > relatives > for so long...but I feel that it's wrong to suggest that > initiatives toward promoting > the art of poetry, at large, among the general public, are all > wrong. Certainly most > of popularizing impulses will miss their marks badly, but poetry, > or all the arts, has > the least resources to spend on promoting itself. Every local > symphony or art museum > has a budget that would make a typical poetry promoter feel like a > hip-hop mogul. > Poetry, of all the arts, risks slipping into the realm of "pigeon > raising" and "basketry", > it may be seen as nothing more than some harmless hobby. If poetry > wants to be an art, > shoulder to shoulder with visual arts , theatre, music or even > opera (what's the > Met's annual budget?), it's got to do a little work. It's got to try. > > Writing down to an audience is going to do the job. Trying to clone > Billy Collins and > Mary Oliver won't work either. But every effort may, in some small > way, reach > a few of the 'half-inclined to pay attention' to this sullen art & > craft and to > convert them into real fans. It's not stadia we need fill?but the > difference between > getting 5 people to attend a poetry reading and getting 50 into hte > house is real > quantum leap. Martial, the Roman poet, said it well when he said > (rough paraphrase > of the translated Latin) 'a poem that isn't read isn't a poem'. We > can't be completely > dismissive of doing a little to meet halfway the potential audience > for our art. Putting > a good poem in a subway train (or slot machine) or slipping a > poetry anthology into a > random hotel room (Jos. Brodsky's bright idea) nestled next to the > Gideon's Bible, > are small efforts of guerilla marketing that I can get behind. > Much of what the Poetry > Foundation is doing will be a complete belly flop. But sometimes, > someone gets > splashed by one of those flops, and is refreshed by the unexpected > spray. > Finnegan > http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070219fa_fact_goodyear > In a message dated 2/14/2007 10:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > queenmouse at gmail.com writes: > Good article. I particularly like the quote from my old classmate, > Joel Brower. Couldn't have said this better myself: > > Joel Brouwer, a poet reviewing a collection in the Times Book > Review in December, wrote, "Contemporary poetry's great good > fortune (despite contrary claims from certain hand-wringers mad to > see poems affixed to every slot-machine, taxi stand and flowerpot > in the land) is that it has no mass market, and so no call to pander." > > I have come to realize that of the things that makes poetry > valuable to me is precisely that it *isn't* a commodity that can be > harnessed up to make money. It is therefore free to do a different > kind of work. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do not know the way." > > Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima Wed Feb 21 09:04:19 2007 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:04:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <307485.91710.qm@web31815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Michael Benedict has died Elaine Equi???s Ripple Effect Mongolian Ping Pong The Grand Piano, vol 2, is available (an experiment in collective autobiography) Highlights of Fascicle 3 Emmett Williams has died We by Yevgeny Zemyatin (sci-fi before sci-fi existed) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From grahamd Wed Feb 21 09:32:57 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:32:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ander Monson Message-ID: <0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu> Astonish If the work of rock is shift & chip & fault, then the work of fingertip along neck is good and well-deserved; then asphalt can astonish us by going soft in back of Festival Foods, where the bears' Friday night dumpster-dive for trash & strew & mess is entertainment for us this far north. Asphalt's slumming, slurring under sun is some work too. If what we call a road is no more solid than a Shamrock Shake thrown out, reclining in the trash. If what we call the ground is hurtle, globe, then we are breakneck, roller coaster gone, or famished from lack of love, finishing & finished. --Ander Monson. Vacationland. Tupelo Press, 2005. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Wed Feb 21 11:11:46 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:11:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Stipulations" In-Reply-To: <59C0F0E4-E9BC-4365-9720-6CABCD431D63@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <013301c755d3$02567770$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Sweet curl -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:56 AM To: & Views New-Poetry Subject: [New-Poetry] "Stipulations" Stipulations Ghostly instead, they chronicle their most horrid neighbors. Standard ground-based tools put an end to night skies everywhere. Newspapers promise more accurate obits whether their subjects are living or dead. My mother was thirty times more sensitive than my father on all but the most august occasions. Mac Low said, "Every text worth reading is a manifesto." I say, whoop-dee-doo! Fat lazy dogs forever! Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 21 17:10:02 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:10:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [webartery] Three Ways of Looking at a Blackbird Message-ID: <014301c75605$092df320$172ab750@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: edwardpicot To: webartery at yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: [webartery] Three Ways of Looking at a Blackbird Dear All - "O thin men of Haddam, Why do you imagine golden birds?" Three short animations, based on three sections of Wallace Stevens' famous poem "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird". Part of a work in progress. http://www.edwardpicot.com/blackbird/ - Edward Picot http://hyperex.co.uk - The Hyperliterature Exchange http://edwardpicot.com - personal website __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group New Message Search Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the improved message search. Share feedback on the new changes to Groups . __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Wed Feb 21 20:40:11 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:40:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [webartery] Three Ways of Looking at a Blackbird References: <014301c75605$092df320$172ab750@ANNY> Message-ID: <005a01c75622$6550f630$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Anny -- I love this. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [webartery] Three Ways of Looking at a Blackbird ----- Original Message ----- From: edwardpicot To: webartery at yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: [webartery] Three Ways of Looking at a Blackbird Dear All - "O thin men of Haddam, Why do you imagine golden birds?" Three short animations, based on three sections of Wallace Stevens' famous poem "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird". Part of a work in progress. http://www.edwardpicot.com/blackbird/ - Edward Picot http://hyperex.co.uk - The Hyperliterature Exchange http://edwardpicot.com - personal website __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group New Message Search Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the improved message search. Share feedback on the new changes to Groups . __,_._,___ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Thu Feb 22 11:02:26 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:02:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu Message-ID: <006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I've been having problems with posts. Did any see my post to New-Poetry yesterday about my blog entry on others' blogs? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 22 11:24:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:24:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu <006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <008a01c7569d$fdcca550$60ae3452@ANNY> I didn't. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Test I've been having problems with posts. Did any see my post to New-Poetry yesterday about my blog entry on others' blogs? --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Thu Feb 22 11:58:23 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:58:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu<006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> 008a01c7569d$fdcca550$60ae3452@ANNY Message-ID: <008501c756a2$ad76c040$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I didn't. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Test I've been having problems with posts. Did any Not "Anny" but "anyONE." I seem in my dotage not to be able to finish words, anymore. Or maybe I've become such a speedy typist the keyboard can't keep up with me. . . . see my post to New-Poetry yesterday about my blog entry on others' blogs? --Bob So, Anny and others, go to my blog homepage and take a look at yesterday's entry. It has the address of my columns for Small Press Review. Recent ones have mentioned your blog and Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's. (And thanks, Anny, for you as-usual alertness.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Feb 22 15:04:22 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:04:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silent Bob In-Reply-To: <006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Last post of yours I saw was about Mary Oliver, Bob. A few days back. ------------------------------------ On 2/22/07 10:02 AM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > I've been having problems with posts. Did any see my post to New-Poetry > yesterday about my blog entry on others' blogs? > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 22 15:07:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:07:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wesley McNair Message-ID: <010001c756bd$07906620$60ae3452@ANNY> American Life in Poetry: Column 100 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 by the Maine poet, Wesley McNair The One I Think of Now At the end of my stepfather's life when his anger was gone, and the saplings of his failed nursery had grown into trees, my newly feminist mother had him in the kitchen to pay for all those years he only did the carving. "You know where that is," she would say as he looked for a knife to cut the cheese and a tray to serve it with, his apron wide as a dress above his workboots, confused as a girl. He is the one I think of now, lifting the tray for my family, the guests, until at last he comes to me. And I, no less confused, look down from his hurt eyes as if there were nothing between us except an arrangement of cheese, and not this bafflement, these almost tender hands that once swung hammers and drove machines and insisted that I learn to be a man. American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also supported by the Department of English at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2002 by Wesley McNair, whose most recent book is "The Ghosts of You and Me," David R. Godine, 2006. Reprinted from "Fire: Poems," published by David R. Godine, 2002, by permission of the author. Introduction copyright (c) 2006 by The Poetry Foundation. The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. ****************************** American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. The sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without alteration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Thu Feb 22 17:00:49 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:00:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silent Bob References: C2035366.EA1D%grahamd@ripon.edu Message-ID: <001c01c756cc$ec36cd00$8bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Silent Bob Last post of yours I saw was about Mary Oliver, Bob. A few days back. --David Graham Who her? Seriously, thanks for letting me know, David. Something weird is going on with with my computer or server or both, but at least some post of mine to New-Poetry got through. (I think only the ones about my blog didn't--I haven't been posting much to New-Poetry lately, I don't think.) Now, let's see if this makes it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Thu Feb 22 19:42:39 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:42:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silent Bob In-Reply-To: <001c01c756cc$ec36cd00$8bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: C2035366.EA1D%grahamd@ripon.edu <001c01c756cc$ec36cd00$8bfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <8C924FAA7896018-169C-83E3@webmail-me19.sysops.aol.com> I forgot to tell you, Bob, we have set a special filter on the list looking for spam words like 'vispo' and 'another mediocrity'. Perhaps the filter is a little too tight and needs to be loosened for our friends. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sent: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Silent Bob Last post of yours I saw was about Mary Oliver, Bob. A few days back. --David Graham Who her? Seriously, thanks for letting me know, David. Something weird is going on with with my computer or server or both, but at least some post of mine to New-Poetry got through. (I think only the ones about my blog didn't--I haven't been posting much to New-Poetry lately, I don't think.) Now, let's see if this makes it. --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 23 02:11:54 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:11:54 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu<006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>008a01c7569d$fdcca550$60ae3452@ANNY <008501c756a2$ad76c040$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004e01c75719$e5f9c9e0$537c3652@ANNY> Ahem, since we are in this mood let's see how I can put it down. I logically scanned pages and pages to find my name and my blog, and finally way way back into the previous century, and at the very end of an endless row of words, I find this: Nonetheless, I'm going to leave the names of those I didn't get to on my list, Anny Ballardini's because it boasts what is probably the most eclectic collection of poems on the Internet (including a selection of mine, which is the real reason her site made my list, of course), and Bob is talking of the Poets' Corner, not of my blog. I hope, Finnegan, you filtered also "taxonomy"! From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:58 PM I didn't. From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:02 PM So, Anny and others, go to my blog homepage and take a look at yesterday's entry. It has the address of my columns for Small Press Review. Recent ones have mentioned your blog and Mike Snider's and Chris Lott's. (And thanks, Anny, for you as-usual alertness.) --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 23 06:25:32 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:25:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu<006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>008a01c7569d$fdcca550$60 ae3452@ANNY<008501c756a2$ad76c040$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> 004e01c75719$e5f9c9e0$537c3652@ANNY Message-ID: <001501c7573d$57dea8a0$e8fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Ahem, since we are in this mood let's see how I can put it down. I logically scanned pages and pages to find my name and my blog, and finally way way back into the previous century, and at the very end of an endless row of words, I find this: Nonetheless, I'm going to leave the names of those I didn't get to on my list, Anny Ballardini's because it boasts what is probably the most eclectic collection of poems on the Internet (including a selection of mine, which is the real reason her site made my list, of course), and Bob is talking of the Poets' Corner, not of my blog. I hope, Finnegan, you filtered also "taxonomy"! True, not your blog, Anny--this time. The project is very confused and does include poetry sites as well as poetry blogs. But I IZ trying to get a reasonably thorough and useful overview of such things done. Thanks for looking. And providing feedback. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 23 06:43:22 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:43:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu<006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>008a01c7569d$fdcca550$60 ae3452@ANNY<008501c756a2$ad76c040$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>004e01c75719$e5f9c9e0$537c3652@ANNY 001501c7573d$57dea8a0$e8fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc Message-ID: <003c01c7573f$d63c4a20$e8fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Here's my original message again, which still hasn't gotten through. Apparently the URL is hanging it up, so I left out its http and www as a further test. Today, in MY blog (over a thousand visits in just three years!) I mention having gotten my Comprepoetica file of Small Press Review columns up-to-date. The latest is about Crag Hill's blog. The entry to the files is here: geocities.com/Comprepoetica/spr-stuff/index.html. My columns go back to June 1993, by the way, so provide a relatively lengthy if narrow overview of recent marginal poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 23 10:36:47 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:36:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Test References: 0315519F-5D6A-4F24-BB48-FCFA4A6CFEC7@ripon.edu<006f01c7569a$da83c6d0$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>008a01c7569d$fdcca550$60ae3452@ANNY<008501c756a2$ad76c040$83fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc>004e01c75719$e5f9c9e0$537c3652@ANNY <001501c7573d$57dea8a0$e8fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <003c01c75760$6e4c9ca0$c1ae3252@ANNY> :-) thank you, Anny From: Bob Grumman Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 12:25 PM Ahem, since we are in this mood let's see how I can put it down. I logically scanned pages and pages to find my name and my blog, and finally way way back into the previous century, and at the very end of an endless row of words, I find this: Nonetheless, I'm going to leave the names of those I didn't get to on my list, Anny Ballardini's because it boasts what is probably the most eclectic collection of poems on the Internet (including a selection of mine, which is the real reason her site made my list, of course), and Bob is talking of the Poets' Corner, not of my blog. I hope, Finnegan, you filtered also "taxonomy"! True, not your blog, Anny--this time. The project is very confused and does include poetry sites as well as poetry blogs. But I IZ trying to get a reasonably thorough and useful overview of such things done. Thanks for looking. And providing feedback. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Fri Feb 23 15:28:25 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 15:28:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mo' po' natterin' 'bout po' no matterin' Message-ID: <8C925A04E0A50F4-88C-7D5E@WEBMAIL-RB13.sysops.aol.com> http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179325 What to Do About Poetry The argument that keeps on giving. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Fri Feb 23 16:44:44 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:44:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mo' po' natterin' 'bout po' no matterin' In-Reply-To: <8C925A04E0A50F4-88C-7D5E@WEBMAIL-RB13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C925A04E0A50F4-88C-7D5E@WEBMAIL-RB13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702231344l8ac3248n7048cc7a455fbeaf@mail.gmail.com> I saw this a few days ago, Jim. Thanks for posting it. I must say, thought, that this kind of stuff gives me THE SHIVERS (as Owen Meany might say ...). I suppose when I was a bit younger, I thrived on these kinds of arguments. Loved them. Search the NewPoetry archives & you can dig up a lot of stupid things I've said about a number of topics, often shooting my mouth off when I should have been listening. But, I suppose, too, that these kinds of arguments/debates are inevitable. I wonder--do other artistic disciplines have these discussions? Are there "Who Killed Classical Music" polemics in orchestral music magazines? Are there revivals of representative art in visual art circles? In short, is poetry the only discipline that engenders this kind of discourse? I want to be clear here: I'm not being dismissive of those who ask questions about the fate (or place) of contemporary poetry. For my part, though, I'm just not that concerned with the debate. Best, Jeff Newberry On 2/23/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/features/feature.onpoetry.html?id=179325 > > What to Do About Poetry > The argument that keeps on giving. > > ------------------------------ > *Check out the new AOL*. > Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to > millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Feb 23 17:37:33 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:37:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mo' po' natterin' 'bout po' no matterin' References: <8C925A04E0A50F4-88C-7D5E@WEBMAIL-RB13.sysops.aol.com> 731bb17a0702231344l8ac3248n7048cc7a455fbeaf@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <008901c7579b$37cabf50$e8fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mo' po' natterin' 'bout po' no matterin' I saw this a few days ago, Jim. Thanks for posting it. I must say, thought, that this kind of stuff gives me THE SHIVERS (as Owen Meany might say ...). I suppose when I was a bit younger, I thrived on these kinds of arguments. Loved them. Search the NewPoetry archives & you can dig up a lot of stupid things I've said about a number of topics, often shooting my mouth off when I should have been listening. But, I suppose, too, that these kinds of arguments/debates are inevitable. I wonder--do other artistic disciplines have these discussions? Are there "Who Killed Classical Music" polemics in orchestral music magazines? Are there revivals of representative art in visual art circles? In short, is poetry the only discipline that engenders this kind of discourse? Offhand, I can't think of any field of endeaver that does NOT engender this kind of discourse. Take pro basketball, for instance. Or baseball, killed by free agentry and steroid use? I think the question reduces to "Am *I* meaningful?" This, for most people, means (at least in part), am I making a meaningful contribution to society? From this it follows that whether my trade in general is making a meaningful contribution to society is a relevant question. I suppose luckier people than I automatically assume they are meaningful, so have no need to defend their trades. Others, perhaps, have no need to feel meaningful, though It's hard for me to imagine that. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 23 17:53:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:53:08 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Free Shipping - All Books & DVD's Message-ID: <001501c7579d$631326f0$c1ae3252@ANNY> FREE SHIPPING AND HANDLING ON ALL BOOKS & DVD'S We are offering FREE SHIPPING on ALL ORDERS placed at http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com , through March 1st - NO MINIMUM REQUIRED. NEW Books and DVD's have just been added in ALL subject categories - including many First-Time Sale Books at deep discounts. Click on the appropriate subject link listed below to view titles in your area of interest: MILITARY - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/military HISTORY - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/history FINE ARTS - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/finearts LITERATURE - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/literature RELIGION & PHILOSOPHY - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/religion BASEBALL - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/baseball DVD & VIDEO - http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/video (You credit card will not be charged the S&H fee which appears in the shopping cart when you check out) For additional details, please visit http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com , and click on the banner: "FREE SHIPPING." Sincerely, Jean Allen The Scholar's Bookshelf 110 Melrich Road Cranbury, NJ 08512 609-395-6933 Phone 609-395-0755 Fax If you no longer wish to receive this service, please reply to this message and type, "Unsubscribe," as well as your last name in the subject line. If you no longer wish to receive this service, please reply to this message and type "UNSUBSCRIBE," as well as your last name in the subject field. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sat Feb 24 11:21:18 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:21:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Solstice Low-Residency MFA in Creative Writing of PMC: deadline for July residency is May 14 Message-ID: <004301c7582f$d08c20a0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Passing this along -- sent to me by my friend Meg Kearney, director of the program. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: Kearney, Meg To: undisclosed-recipients: Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Solstice Low-Residency MFA in Creative Writing of PMC: deadline for July residency is May 14 Please spread the word! The Solstice Low-Residency MFA in Creative Writing Pine Manor College, ranked #1 in the country for diversity by U.S. News & World Report, offers a low-residency MFA in Creative Writing Program that features an outstanding faculty and 10-day residencies with classes in craft, criticism, and theory in addition to workshops. Our low-residency format enables students to manage family and work obligations while gaining knowledge and skill in poetry, fiction, creative nonfiction, or writing for children and young adults. Our core faculty includes: FICTION: Helen Elaine Lee, Dennis Lehane, Sandra Scofield, Sterling Watson POETRY: Kathleen Aguero, Laure-Anne Bosselaar, Terrance Hayes, and Dzvinia Orlowsky CREATIVE NONFICTION: Joy Castro, Randall Kenan and Michael Steinberg (writer-in-residence) WRITING FOR CHILDREN & YOUNG ADULTS: An Na, Laban Carrick Hill, Laura Williams McCaffrey, and Jacqueline Woodson SPECIAL GUESTS at the July 2007 residency include public radio's "Studio 360" host Kurt Andersen, author of the best-selling novel and New York Times Notable Book Turn of the Century, and, most recently, Heyday (which Publishers Weekly called "delightful, intelligent.rowdy, knowing - and wholly American"); and Phyllis Karas, author (with Kiki Feroudi Moutsatsos) of The Onassis Women: An Eyewitness Account, and, most recently (with Kevin Weeks), Brutal: The Untold Story of My Life Inside Whitey Bulger's South Boston Mob. Visit www.pmc.edu/mfa for details and an application. Applications for the July residency/fall 2007 semester are due May 14, 2007 (not a postmark). Meg Kearney Director, Solstice Creative Writing Programs Pine Manor College 400 Heath Street Chestnut Hill, MA 02467 (617) 731-7684 phone (617) 731-7631 fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorgensen_a Sat Feb 24 12:51:58 2007 From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:51:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] something about graduate programs In-Reply-To: <200702241700.l1OH06t6006181@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <190519.20341.qm@web54612.mail.yahoo.com> strange request i know and related to graduate programs. does any one know of, might recommend an ma program with a nice environment and maybe safe, and it still is not too late to apply. just returned stateside from china. thanks for comments on last poem. have made a slight change but wanted it to represent a kind of "aesthetic" and then visually look almost physically dimentional aj --- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather From anny.ballardini Sat Feb 24 16:47:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:47:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bad press Message-ID: <00b501c7585d$608e74a0$9f2ab750@ANNY> sent by Kyle Storm bestechetwynde at gmail.com Et ceterrain, Could whoever's parked the Feb 07 Sophie Robinson reading on the Bad Press web site please move it as it is blocking a dot chrysalis from rustling, a strange boneyard, all those lovely things. http://badpress.infinology.net x sent by Kyle Storm bestechetwynde at gmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Sat Feb 24 17:57:03 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:57:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] something about graduate programs References: <190519.20341.qm@web54612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c75867$1a1e0800$0201a8c0@LindaSue> Try Ball State University: if you get a graduate assistantship, you teach one class of English comp per semester, get your tuition paid for plus a stipend. At least that's how it used to be. Muncie is a decent city to live in for a few years. Hope this helps. Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Jorgensen" To: Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 11:51 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] something about graduate programs > strange request i know and related to graduate > programs. does any one know of, might recommend an ma > program with a nice environment and maybe safe, and it > still is not too late to apply. just returned > stateside from china. thanks for comments on last > poem. have made a slight change but wanted it to > represent a kind of "aesthetic" and then visually look > almost physically dimentional > > aj > > --- > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast > with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From chan_jt Sun Feb 25 00:58:53 2007 From: chan_jt (JT Chan) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:58:53 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Sz Issue 22 now online Message-ID: Hi, Poetry Sz : demystifying mental illness, Issue 22, is now online at http://poetrysz.blogspot.com . Featuring the work of the following poets: Dorothy Mienko Barry Seiler Lisa Gordon Stephen Mead Michael P. Workman T. Lewis Olga Lalić-Krowicka Joel Fry Dave Ruslander Anna Kaye Forsyth Keith Nunes Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Send 4-6 poems, and a short bio, to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Please read the submission guidelines before submitting. thanks. regards J Chan editor, PoetrySz _________________________________________________________________ Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 25 06:25:45 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:25:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Mallarm=E9?= Message-ID: <004201c758cf$b19f7340$74af3852@ANNY> The reader must return over and over again to the lines, concentrate on the music of the words rather than the referential meaning. Once he stated: "I become obscure, of course! if one makes a mistake and thinks one is opening a newspaper." "Nommer un object, c'est supprimer les trois-quarts de la jouissance du po?me qui est fait peu ? peu: le sugg?rer." St?phane Mallarm? from this site: http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/mallarme.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 25 13:44:03 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:44:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] 'Collected Poems' by Zbigniew Herbert Message-ID: _http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-lytal25feb25,0,7187233.htm lstory?ref=jtd_ (http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-lytal25feb25,0,7187233.htmlstory?ref=jtd) February 25, 2007 BOOK REVIEW 'Collected Poems' by Zbigniew Herbert Practicing poetic grace under Soviet pressure Book Review By Benjamin Lytal The Collected Poems: 1956-1998 Zbigniew HerbertTranslated from the Polish and edited by Alissa Valles, with additional translations by Czeslaw Milosz and Peter Dale Scott Ecco: 600 pp., $34.95 We do not know what role Zbigniew Herbert played in the Polish resistance. We do know that he was active underground, beginning in 1941, when Hitler's forces took the city of Lw?w from the Red Army, which had occupied it in 1939. But Herbert's extensive literary output did not address Polish affairs very directly. His prose explored the art of the Mediterranean, and then of the Netherlands, and his poetry, though profoundly one of experience, was not a poetry of witness.


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 25 16:53:19 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:53:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Karri Kokko Message-ID: <00c101c75927$5cf5d5c0$74af3852@ANNY> Tom Beckett interviews Karri Kokko: http://willtoexchange.blogspot.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 26 10:58:31 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:58:31 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Gene Frumkin (1928-2007) Message-ID: <6368484C-4E20-4E37-950C-08D975BA919C@earthlink.net> Escalator The escalator is a dangerous enemy who could trip you one step at a time. This is how the mind works, synthesizing dream with substance. Or as Jung alternates with Freud. The substitution of ground for holiness claims voice as a reason for old tribes locating the sun as figures in the act, at the window. The future derives from sleep, evolves into gods and animals. This is a process that F. chilled into vintage prose. Jung warmed to the blooded world, not alone. The human collective describes the enormity of a single voice. How the minotaur poses like God in his mystical cellar. Yet F. too brings the good news that deciphers time in focus, traveled by a map, as if one could say there it is! now is as good as anywhere. Everything is abstract in its origin almost as if Plato believed in the verity of his good republic. The escalator goes flat by steps. It continues as breath does: two men in blue suits with vests. The moving sidewalk is no less. It slows into watchword, and if F. abhorred the occult, Jung compared sexuality in the psychic order to a hidden grammar, dogma on the harpsichord. Organized mystery, lens-defined hyperbole. A science rises from obsession, shaped like the Golem of Prague, but who remembers his song? Jung catches flies instead of fish. F. hangs his briefs on the line. The world is all alone, all there is to imitate. Time limps behind the escalator, F. stands with a stopwatch, Jung with a camera. Mind in slow motion, caught in breath. --Gene Frumkin fr. Freud by Other Means [Albuquerque: La Alameda Press, 2002] Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne Mon Feb 26 11:54:44 2007 From: Edward.Byrne (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:54:44 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] VPR Blog In-Reply-To: <6368484C-4E20-4E37-950C-08D975BA919C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1172508884-484.00038.02462-smmsdV2.1.6@mailhub.valpo.edu> David has informed me that he recently posted a note to the list about the Valparaiso Poetry Review editor's blog, "One Poet's Notes," begun to complement work in VPR and recognize notable recent publications of poetry. I want to thank David and personally invite all to visit the blog and encourage you to pass along information about the blog's contents to any individuals or lists you think might be interested. Poets whose works are considered in entries during the last 30 days include Philip Levine, Ann Townsend, Kwame Dawes, Kay Ryan, David Bottoms, Honor Moore, Charles Simic, and Daisy Fried. The URL for the blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Thanks, Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu Home Page: http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Blog: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu VPR Web Page: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From editor Mon Feb 26 12:38:06 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:38:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: RIP Gene Frumkin (1928-2007) In-Reply-To: <200702261700.l1QH04t5021664@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20070226173806.9588.qmail@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the poem Hal Gene was an excellent poet who never saw his due. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames Mon Feb 26 13:31:54 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:31:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eagleton re Raine re Eliot Message-ID: <8C927EB865EDA39-874-2099@mblk-r27.sysops.aol.com> http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=8312 March 2007 | 132 ? Reviews ? Raine's sterile thunder TS Eliot's greatness as a poet is established beyond all doubt. So why do critics feel the need to defend him against all charges of misogyny and antisemitism? Terry Eagleton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terry Eagleton is professor of cultural theory at the University of Manchester TS Eliot by Craig Raine (OUP, ?12.99) For a good many decades, thick fumes of incense have been wafting from the English literary establishment in the general direction of TS Eliot. The latest offering by the acolytes to the high priest is this study by Craig Raine, which admits that some of Eliot's drama isn't up to much but otherwise won't hear a cross word about the great man. "There is no evidence," Raine piously remarks, "that Eliot was either a fornicator or a homosexual," as though being homosexual was a trespass to be vigorously rebutted. Eliot was not, he rashly maintains, a misogynist either, even though the poetry is shot through from end to end with a fear and loathing of women. He even seeks to face down the charge that this ascetic ex-bank clerk was a bit of a dry old stick, although Eliot himself admitted as much. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 26 15:07:48 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:07:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eagleton re Raine re Eliot References: <8C927EB865EDA39-874-2099@mblk-r27.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004801c759e1$cab01700$adeb3652@ANNY> Raine, then, is certain that he has the "meaning" of The Waste Land under his belt. He does not understand that Eliot's poetry is not a question of meaning in the first place. The meaning of a poem for Eliot was a fairly trifling matter. It was, he once remarked, like the piece of meat which the burglar throws to the guard dog to keep him occupied. In true symbolist fashion, Eliot was interested in what a poem did, not in what it said?in the resonance of the signifier, the echoes of its archetypes, the ghostly associations haunting its grains and textures, the stealthy, subliminal workings of its unconscious. Meaning was for the birds, or perhaps for the petit bourgeoisie. Eliot was a primitivist as well as a sophisticate, a writer who made guerrilla raids on the collective unconscious. For all his intellectualism, he was averse to rationality. Meaning in his poetry is like the mysterious figure who walks beside you in The Waste Land, vanishing when you look at it straight. When Raine enquires of a couple of lines in one of Eliot's poems whether we are supposed to be in a brothel, the only answer which would be true to Eliot's own aesthetic is that we are in a poem. and If there is very little stark, authentic emotion in Eliot's work, there is also a shortage of it in this commentary. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Eagleton re Raine re Eliot http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=8312 March 2007 | 132 ? Reviews ? Raine's sterile thunder TS Eliot's greatness as a poet is established beyond all doubt. So why do critics feel the need to defend him against all charges of misogyny and antisemitism? Terry Eagleton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terry Eagleton is professor of cultural theory at the University of Manchester TS Eliot by Craig Raine (OUP, ?12.99) For a good many decades, thick fumes of incense have been wafting from the English literary establishment in the general direction of TS Eliot. The latest offering by the acolytes to the high priest is this study by Craig Raine, which admits that some of Eliot's drama isn't up to much but otherwise won't hear a cross word about the great man. "There is no evidence," Raine piously remarks, "that Eliot was either a fornicator or a homosexual," as though being homosexual was a trespass to be vigorously rebutted. Eliot was not, he rashly maintains, a misogynist either, even though the poetry is shot through from end to end with a fear and loathing of women. He even seeks to face down the charge that this ascetic ex-bank clerk was a bit of a dry old stick, although Eliot himself admitted as much. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Mon Feb 26 15:36:53 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:36:53 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eagleton re Raine re Eliot In-Reply-To: <004801c759e1$cab01700$adeb3652@ANNY> References: <8C927EB865EDA39-874-2099@mblk-r27.sysops.aol.com> <004801c759e1$cab01700$adeb3652@ANNY> Message-ID: Somebody writing in the LRB said that Raines had TSE wrong: eliot is a religious poet, and Raine, apparently, ignores this for psychological trappings which, according to the author of the report, don't quite fit Westminster Abbey, I mean, TSE. I think Cyril Connolly gave TS this nickname. The more I think about Eliot and his poetry, the less I like his poetry. Roger On 2/26/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Raine, then, is certain that he has the "meaning" of The Waste Land under > his belt. He does not understand that Eliot's poetry is not a question of > meaning in the first place. The meaning of a poem for Eliot was a fairly > trifling matter. It was, he once remarked, like the piece of meat which the > burglar throws to the guard dog to keep him occupied. In true symbolist > fashion, Eliot was interested in what a poem did, not in what it said?in the > resonance of the signifier, the echoes of its archetypes, the ghostly > associations haunting its grains and textures, the stealthy, subliminal > workings of its unconscious. Meaning was for the birds, or perhaps for the > petit bourgeoisie. Eliot was a primitivist as well as a sophisticate, a > writer who made guerrilla raids on the collective unconscious. For all his > intellectualism, he was averse to rationality. Meaning in his poetry is like > the mysterious figure who walks beside you in The Waste Land, vanishing when > you look at it straight. When Raine enquires of a couple of lines in one of > Eliot's poems whether we are supposed to be in a brothel, the only answer > which would be true to Eliot's own aesthetic is that we are in a poem. > > and > > If there is very little stark, authentic emotion in Eliot's work, there is > also a shortage of it in this commentary. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:31 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Eagleton re Raine re Eliot > > > http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=8312 > > March 2007 | 132 ? Reviews ? Raine's sterile thunder > TS Eliot's greatness as a poet is established beyond all doubt. So why do > critics feel the need to defend him against all charges of misogyny and > antisemitism? > Terry Eagleton > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Terry Eagleton is professor of cultural theory at the University of > Manchester > > TS Eliot by Craig Raine > (OUP, ?12.99) > For a good many decades, thick fumes of incense have been wafting from the > English literary establishment in the general direction of TS Eliot. The > latest offering by the acolytes to the high priest is this study by Craig > Raine, which admits that some of Eliot's drama isn't up to much but > otherwise won't hear a cross word about the great man. "There is no > evidence," Raine piously remarks, "that Eliot was either a fornicator or a > homosexual," as though being homosexual was a trespass to be vigorously > rebutted. Eliot was not, he rashly maintains, a misogynist either, even > though the poetry is shot through from end to end with a fear and loathing > of women. He even seeks to face down the charge that this ascetic ex-bank > clerk was a bit of a dry old stick, although Eliot himself admitted as much. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde From halvard Tue Feb 27 10:02:03 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:02:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurb du jour Message-ID: <1FE1B2D2-D866-45AE-AD72-837F184E5553@earthlink.net> From the dustjacket of John Ashbery's Chinese Whispers: "I find him prepossessing." --Marianne Moore Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima Tue Feb 27 11:13:12 2007 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:13:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: Bad Moon Rising Message-ID: <218823.73717.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS In the past three weeks Leroy Jenkins Gene Frumkin Merilene Murphy Michael Benedikt and Emmett Williams have all died The device poems of Elaine Equi Reading and citing the New York Times Martin Scorsese???s The Departed is better than the film (Infernal Affairs) from which it was adapted Elaine Equi???s Ripple Effect Mongolian Ping Pong The Grand Piano, vol 2, is available (an experiment in collective autobiography) Highlights of Fascicle 3 We by Yevgeny Zemyatin (sci-fi before sci-fi existed) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From tony Tue Feb 27 13:37:33 2007 From: tony (Tony Trigilio) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:37:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions / Court Green #5 Message-ID: <45E47A6D.6050303@starve.org> COURT GREEN #5 / Spring 2008 http://english.colum.edu/courtgreen Call for Submissions Dossier: Sylvia Plath Each issue of COURT GREEN features a dossier on a special topic or theme. For our fifth issue, we are seeking creative responses to the work, life, and legacy of Sylvia Plath. It has been over forty years since Plath committed suicide. In the decades since, her influence has proven to be great and lasting. For this dossier, we would like to see fresh takes on and responses to Plath?s life and work, however subtle or overt, in poetry and short lyric essays or prose. All styles are welcome. We are not looking for critical/academic works at this time. Submissions for dossier and regular sections of the magazine are welcome. If you would like to submit poems for either or both sections, our submission period is March 1-June 30 of each year. Please send no more than five pages of poetry. We will respond by August 31. Submit to: Editors, COURT GREEN English Department Columbia College Chicago 600 South Michigan Avenue Chicago, IL 60605 Email submissions are not accepted. Submissions without a self-addressed, stamped envelope will not be returned. SASEs with insufficient postage will contain notification only. Poems submitted outside our reading period will be returned unread. Email me if you have questions: tony at starve.org From c288 Tue Feb 27 18:19:34 2007 From: c288 (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:34 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c288 Tue Feb 27 18:20:12 2007 From: c288 (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:20:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Feb 27 18:59:52 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:59:52 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurb du jour Message-ID: In a message dated 2/27/2007 10:02:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: "I find him prepossessing." --Marianne Moore I'm going to see him read in about a half-hour...I'll let you know if he's overly forward like that. Finnegan


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Feb 27 19:34:54 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:34:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60702271634x2f95a323v95253c43d51129ef@mail.gmail.com> On 2/27/07, Charmaine Pettit wrote: > > > The Watchtower or 1975? I am foggy on this? My birthyear.. How can that be? No one was born after 1960. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames Tue Feb 27 21:24:42 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:24:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurb du jour Message-ID: In a message dated 2/27/2007 7:00:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: "I find him prepossessing." --Marianne Moore I'm going to see him read in about a half-hour...I'll let you know if he's overly forward like that. Finnegan Time's aged frisson gets to me more and more, like mice in pantomime. And then the prompter throws up his hands in dismay. You were mortal, so why didn't you say anything? Back to brick basics for you, my man. We'll see another day the wave coming up short at water's edge, which in turn justifies our divagations: --John Ashbery, from "Cliffhanger," A Wordly Country, Ecco, 2007 -- Very short review of the reading: He read from the new book. You could hear a little gasp in his breath at the end of each phrase, and the divagations were justified. Finnegan


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Feb 27 21:33:05 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:33:05 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurb du jour Message-ID: In a message dated 2/27/2007 9:24:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames writes: --John Ashbery, from "Cliffhanger," A Wordly Country, Ecco, 2007 The new book is A Worldly Country, but that too...


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 1 12:52:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 18:52:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Five Easy Pieces Message-ID: <002701c74629$b14dd520$83a93452@ANNY> sent by Anne Tardos: in the 2007 issue of Big Bridge HERE www.annetardos.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 1 16:53:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:53:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Aaron Belz Message-ID: <001c01c7464b$67902560$83a93452@ANNY> Gertrude Stein "Finally George A Vocabulary of Thinking" This piece appeared in HOW TO WRITE. I need a copy of it electronically. If you have it, or you know where I might access it, please let me know ASAP! Thanks! Aaron aaron at belz.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 1 16:56:20 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:56:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sound in Stevens Message-ID: <002301c7464b$cef08830$83a93452@ANNY> CALL FOR PAPERS A Special Issue of The Wallace Stevens Journal Topic: Sound in Stevens Given Wallace Stevens' pronouncements about the significance of sound and the prominent attention to sound and sonic phenomena throughout his poetry, it is time again to devote attention to this important facet of his poetics. This special issue of The Wallace Stevens Journal welcomes papers on any aspect of the expressivity of sound in Stevens. Particularly welcome are papers on the rhythms of Stevens' verse as well as articles that introduce new scholarly directions since the Fall 1991 WSJ volume, "Stevens and Structures of Sound." Suggested topics follow: * Stevens' play with the sonic properties of English, French, and other foreign or symbolic languages * The role of rhythm and other sonic poetic structures in Stevens' verse * The non-semantic and other properties of sound that might interest Stevens * Explications, with examples, of Stevens' famous pronouncements and winking subterfuges regarding the role of sound and the sound of words in poetry * The range of human and non-human speakers in Stevens' verse * Consideration of how sound in Stevens may or may not connect with Stevens' politics * Critical resistance or impediments to studies of sound and rhythm in Stevens * The significance of Stevens' experiments with sound in relation to other modernist as well as later experimental writers * Reflection on Stevens' reading style and reception of his poetry readings, live and recorded Papers should be sent by July 15, 2007, to: Natalie Gerber Department of English 277 Fenton Hall SUNY Fredonia Fredonia, NY 14063 Email: gerber at fredonia.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Feb 1 17:11:46 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:11:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Gian Carlo Menotti (1911-2007) Message-ID: February 1, 2007 Gian Carlo Menotti, Opera Composer, Dies at 95 By BERNARD HOLLAND Gian Carlo Menotti, who wrote his first opera before he was 11 and went on to become perhaps the most popular and prolific opera composer of his time, winning two Pulitzer Prizes, died today in Monaco. He was 95. His death, at Princess Grace Hospital, was announced by his son, Francis. Though critics often dismissed Mr. Menotti?s music as maudlin and unadventurous, many of them still celebrated his impressive lyric gifts, his deft touch with orchestral sound and his talent for making opera comprehensible and enjoyable for people who had previously shunned it. Of his critics, he once said, ?They often spoil my breakfast but never my lunch.? His contemporaries, too, were sometimes unkind. Igor Stravinsky dismissed Mr. Menotti?s musical language as ?mid-Mascagni.? The composer Luigi Nono withdrew from a project rather than allow his music to appear on the same program as Mr. Menotti?s. Yet well over 600 performances of Mr. Menotti?s made-for-television ?Amahl and the Night Visitors? have been counted, and the piece is done often by amateur companies or in high school gymnasiums. Mr. Menotti?s works, including ?The Medium,? ?The Consul,? ?The Telephone? and ?The Saint of Bleeker Street,? all showed that opera could sustain itself in a Broadway theater, something that Kurt Weill and George Gershwin managed to do only sporadically. Mr. Menotti?s involvement with the musical theater was complete. He composed 25 operas, almost all of them in English. He wrote his own librettos and usually staged his works. He also founded and directed for many years the Festival of Two Worlds, a long-running summer music festival that began in 1958 in Spoleto, Italy. In 1977, he helped establish an American arm of Spoleto in Charleston, S.C. Among other things, the festival gave American musicians and composers an important forum. He withdrew from the Charleston festival in 1993, after years of wrangling with its administrators and city officials. Much of his professional life was spent in the United States, and he usually spoke of himself as an American composer, despite retaining his Italian citizenship and despite removing to an estate of baronial splendor near the Scottish border. In a musical age in which controversy usually centered on the avant- garde, Mr. Menotti was controversial for his conservatism. Writing of his opera ?The Last Savage? in 1964, he said: ?To say of a piece that it is harsh, dry, acid and unrelenting is to praise it. While to call it sweet and graceful is to damn it. For better or for worse, in ?The Last Savage? I have dared to do away completely with fashionable dissonance, and in a modest way, I have endeavored to rediscover the nobility of gracefulness and the pleasure of sweetness.? ?Atonal music,? he said elsewhere, ?is essentially pessimistic. It is incapable of expressing joy or humor.? In interviews, the composer Pierre Boulez often served as whipping boy for Mr. Menotti?s musical dislikes. Mr. Menotti?s operas continued the Italian lyric tradition epitomized by composers like Puccini, to whom he was often compared. Donal Henahan, of The New York Times, once wrote, ?He has suffered from a fear almost unknown among contemporary composers, the fear of losing touch with his audience and with the conventions of the traditional stage.? Gian Carlo Menotti was born on July 7, 1911, in Cadegliano, Italy, a small town on Lake Lugano in Lombardy. He was the sixth of eight children in a prosperous merchant family engaged in the coffee business. Mr. Menotti?s mother, Ines, provided piano, violin and cello lessons for her children, and there were evening musicales in the Menotti household that left a profound impression on Gian Carlo as a young child. Mr. Menotti began writing songs when he was 5 years old, and by the age of 11 he had written his first opera, ?The Death of Pierrot,? which was performed as a puppet show at home. His second opera, a version of Hans Christian Andersen?s ?Little Mermaid,? was composed two years later. In 1924, the family moved to Milan, where Gian Carlo attended the Verdi Conservatory of Music for three years and deepened his interest in opera, often going to La Scala. He read widely ? fairy tales especially ? and his growing taste for exoticism, the supernatural and the highly theatrical was to influence his later work. At 17, When Gian Carlo accompanied his mother to Colombia in her final and futile effort to resurrect the family?s collapsing coffee business. On her way back to Italy, in 1928, she deposited her son at the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia. Armed with an introductory letter from Arturo Toscanini?s wife and a rudimentary command of English, Mr. Menotti began his studies with Rosario Scalero, Curtis?s eminent professor of composition. Mr. Scalero found the young man a talent greatly lacking in discipline and set him to a systematic regimen of traditional counterpoint and early-music studies. At Curtis, Mr. Menotti began his partnership with the American composer Samuel Barber. They lived, traveled and worked together intermittently until Mr. Barber?s death in 1981. Mr. Menotti?s first mature opera was begun on an extended sojourn in Austria with Barber after Mr. Menotti graduated from Curtis in 1933. It was called ?Amelia al Ballo? and incorporated characters and situations that were to reappear in his work ? in this case, a frivolous lady?s circumventions of a jealous husband. ?Amelia? was first given in Philadelphia in 1937. In its English version, ?Amelia Goes to the Ball? was successful enough at the Metropolitan Opera in New York to win Mr. Menotti a commission for NBC radio. The work, ?The Old Maid and the Thief,? also a one-act affair, dealt with a spinster?s conspiracy to snare her attractive young lodger. It was first broadcast in 1939 and later reworked for the stage. Mr. Menotti?s first full-blown opera, ?The Island God,? failed badly at the Met in 1942, but ?The Medium,? written in 1946, ran for 211 performances on Broadway the next year with another Menotti piece, ?The Telephone.? ?The Medium? was a compendium of the Menotti style ? delicate orchestration, lyric writing and often a melodramatic theatricality. By 1950, he had finished ?The Consul,? a tale of political outcasts in Europe pitted against an unresponsive bureaucracy. ?The Consul? ran on Broadway for 269 performances and won both the Drama Critics Circle Award and a Pulitzer Prize. Mr. Menotti?s 1951 television opera, ?Amahl and the Night Visitors,? again written for NBC, was perhaps his most popular and successful stage work. ?Amahl? was inspired by Hieronymous Bosch?s painting ?The Adoration of the Magi? and tells of the healing of a crippled boy who offers his crutches as a gift to the Infant Jesus. ?The Saint of Bleeker Street,? first produced on Broadway for the 1954-55 season, carried a theme that much preoccupied Mr. Menotti?s career: the tension between mysticism and faith on the one hand and the cynical ?real? world on the other. It did not make money, but the critics liked it. ?The Saint of Bleeker Street? earned Mr. Menotti his second Pulitzer. He almost always wrote the words for his own operas, and in 1958 he served the same function for Barber. The opera was Barber?s ?Vanessa,? for which Mr. Menotti provided both libretto and stage direction. Soon afterward he wrote librettos for two other operas: Barber?s ?Hand of Bridge? and ?Introductions and Goodbyes? by Lukas Foss. His own operas kept pouring out ? including ?Labyrinth? (1963), ?The Last Savage? (1963), ?Martin?s Lie? (1964), ?Help, Help, the Globolinks? (1968), ?The Most Important Man? (1971), ?The Hero? (1976), ?The Egg? (1976) and ?The Trial of the Gypsy (1978). Mr. Menotti was also active composing ballets, cantatas, orchestral tone poems, instrumental concertos, songs and chamber music. And he wrote several plays. In one, ?The Leper? (1970), he offered a plea for tolerance toward homosexuality. Mr. Menotti lived for many years with Mr. Barber in a house known as Capricorn in Mt. Kisco, N.Y. The house was sold in 1973, and Mr. Menotti moved to Yester House, a 16th-century manor in the hills near Edinburgh, Scotland. The heir presumptive to his personal and musical estate is his son, Francis, who was an aspiring actor when Mr. Menotti met him in the early 1970s. He later adopted him. "Time is what keeps us waiting." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 2 10:22:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:22:49 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Australia and New Zealand American Studies Association Conference University of Sydney 4-7th July 2008 Message-ID: <002601c746de$003b0360$c4af3252@ANNY> > From: sarah gleeson-white [mailto:s.gleeson-white at adfa.edu.au] > Sent: woensdag 31 januari 2007 22:32 First Call For Papers: Australia and New Zealand American Studies Association Conference University of Sydney 4-7th July 2008 The Department of History at the University of Sydney is delighted to announce that it is hosting the Australia and New Zealand Association for American Studies Conference in 2008. ANZASA brings together scholars from Australia and New Zealand with colleagues who specialise in American Studies from around the world for a major conference held every two years. Proposals for panels and individual (20-minute) papers are now invited. We welcome proposals from across the broad spectrum of American Studies topics. We also plan special themed sessions on the research areas of each of our keynote speakers. Panels and papers addressing those topics are particularly welcome. At present, our confirmed keynote speakers are: George Chauncey: is Professor of History at Yale University. He is best known for his book Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890-1940 (Basic, 1994), which won the Organization of American Historians' Merle Curti Prize for the best book in social history and Frederick Jackson Turner Prize for the best first book in history, as well as the Los Angeles Times Book Prize and Lambda Literary Award. He is also the author of Why Marriage? The History Shaping Today's Debate over Gay Equality (Basic, 2004), and was the organizer and lead author of the Historians' Amicus Brief in Lawrence v. Texas (2003), which was cited extensively in the Supreme Court's landmark decision overturning American sodomy laws. He is currently nearing completion of the sequel to Gay New York, to be titled, The Strange Career of the Closet: Gay Culture, Consciousness, and Politics from the Second World War to the Gay Liberation Era. Ian Tyrrell: is Scientia Professor of History at the University of New South Wales, Sydney. Best known for his studies of the history of women and temperance in the United States, his most recent books are True Gardens of the Gods: Californian-Australian Environmental Reform, 1860-1930 (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999); Deadly Enemies: Tobacco and its Opponents in Australia (Sydney: University of New South Wales Press, 1999); and Historians in Public: American Historical Practice, 1890-1970 (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2005). A fellow of the Australian Academy of the Humanities, he was awarded a Commonwealth of Australia Centenary Medal in 2003, and appointed a Scientia Professor in 2007. He is presently engaged on an Australian Research Council Discovery Project (2005-08) on American Cultural Expansion and American Empire, covering the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Proposals for full panels are preferred, but individual paper proposals are also most welcome. Panel proposals should include a panel title, 200-word abstracts of three papers and a brief CV for each person delivering a paper. Individual proposals should include an abstract and brief CV. Postgraduate students, as well as more senior scholars, are warmly encouraged to submit proposals by 30 November 2007. Information on registration will be available shortly; full and concession rates will be available. The Conference will be at the Womens College, University of Sydney, where there is also catered accommodation for a limited number of conference delegates. Discounted rates at several local hotels will also be available; participants should make bookings directly with the hotels. Deadline for proposals: November 30, 2007. Early submission is welcome. Please send your abstracts via email to one of the conference convenors: ? Frances Clarke: frances.clarke at arts.usyd.edu.au ? Clare Corbould: clare.corbould at arts.usyd.edu.au ? Michael McDonnell: michael.mcdonnell at arts.usyd.edu.au ? Stephen Robertson: stephen.robertson at arts.usyd.edu.au Or send to: Department of History, SOPHI (A14) University of Sydney NSW 2006, Australia Ph. 02 9351 6733 Within Australia 61 02 9351 6733 International Fax + 61 (0)2 9351 3918 For updated details, including information about accommodation as it is released, see http://www.anzasa.arts.usyd.edu.au/conference/docs/index.htm Beautiful Sydney serves as the host for the 2008 Australia and New Zealand American Studies Conference that marks the 44th year of ANZASA. Gloriously situated on one of the most beautiful harbours in the world, Sydney is the leading city in New South Wales, and the largest in Australia. It possesses a wealth of stunning natural and heritage sites including the Harbour Bridge, the Opera House, and extensive collections of early examples of Australian art and architecture, along with stunning bush walks around the city and in the numerous nearby National Parks, including the World Heritage listed Blue Mountains. For those who might wish to stay beyond the period of the conference, Sydney is the perfect base from which many short excursions as well as national trips can be undertaken to Australias other major tourist attractions. Sydneys winter climate is temperate with high temperatures in July averaging around 18 degrees celsius, with lows of 9 to 12 degrees celsius. For more information about the city, see: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Fri Feb 2 10:37:14 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:37:14 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] POETICA's 10th Anniversary Message-ID: In a message dated 2/1/2007 6:01:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, airplay at YOUR.ABC.NET.AU writes: ABC Radio National 2-11 February 2007 POETICA 3/2/2007 15:00 8/2/2007 15:00 (repeat) PoeticA's 10th Birthday URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/stories/2007/1823015.htm Poetica celebrates ten years on air with a selection of great poems and voices from the previous 500 programs. Featured poets include Michael Leunig, Dorothy Hewett, Simon Armitage, Billy Collins, Judith Wright, Leonard Cohen and Les Murray. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sat Feb 3 03:48:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 09:48:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <003b01c74770$17768120$06ae3452@ANNY> Poem: "Jack + Judy" by Doreen Fitzgerald, from Cake: Selected Poems. ? The Ester Republic Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Jack + Judy She was stuck on him like a three-cent stamp on a postcard showing a roadside diner shaped like a hat; stuck like a stool on a chrome stem waiting to swivel a customer, or the naked thigh on a summer day clinging to the vinyl seat. He could read her like a two-bit cook reads a scribbled order jammed on a spike, fluttering under the greasy fan; like egg on a fork between the tines, or a hot beef sandwich between the teeth. Together, they're waiting on the night, halfway between Peoria and Baton Rouge, where the word OPEN, in red block letters, hangs under the words, EAT HERE, spelled out in perfect blue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRAHAMD Sun Feb 4 11:49:22 2007 From: GRAHAMD (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:49:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Message-ID: Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's journals, by David Orr: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html? _r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin ------------- The longest-running feud is probably the low-intensity border war between so-called experimental poets and their ?mainstream? brethren. Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most people, saying ?mainstream poetry? is like saying ?mainstream tapestry-weaving?), it?s helpful to turn to the experts. In her book ?21st-Century Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at Stanford and longtime champion of the avant-garde, claims the ?dominant? mode in poetry these days is ?expressivist,? whereas experimental writing involves ?constructivism ... the specific understanding that language, far from being a vehicle or conduit for thoughts or feelings outside and prior to it, is itself the site of meaning- making.? She fleshes out this concept with quotations from several contemporary avant-garde poets, who argue among other things that ?there are no thoughts except through language? and ?as soon as I start listening to the words they reveal their own vectors and affinities, pull the poem into their own field of force, often in unforeseen directions.? Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as it goes? and ?may be worked over once it is in being, but may not be worried into being,? because ultimately ?the whole thing is performance and prowess and feats of association.? After all, where a given poem is concerned, ?what do I want to communicate but what a hell of a good time I had writing it?? Such poems necessarily disdain lyric sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the pleasure of ulteriority? and are usually ? no surprise ? aggressively bookish (?So many of them have literary criticism in them ? in them?). Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more conservative tastes, but as a general description of much of today?s most successful experimental writing, it?s not too bad. The problem, however, is that only the first two of those statements were actually made by contemporary avant-garde poets. Everything else, of course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, to put it mildly, rarely described as a forefather of vanguard poetics). The point here is not that our self-consciously avant-garde writers are kidding themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class was sliding along the razor?s edge of American culture by reading ?Birches.? No, the point is that whenever we begin forming up teams in American poetry, we run into the problem of picking sides for such complex and hard-to- place poets as Frost, T. S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens (not to mention Marianne Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine Niedecker). Rather than take these writers as they are ? rather than acknowledge, for example, that Frost was as innovative as many poets more often considered ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such figures to a size better suited to the game we want to play. We cut the poet to fit the jersey. --David Orr ------ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 12:12:08 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:12:08 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: Message-ID: <001b01c7487f$9a8da8d0$298d3052@ANNY> Frost once said he wanted to be seen as ?the exception I like to think I am in everything.? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's journals, by David Orr: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin ------------- The longest-running feud is probably the low-intensity border war between so-called experimental poets and their ?mainstream? brethren. Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most people, saying ?mainstream poetry? is like saying ?mainstream tapestry-weaving?), it?s helpful to turn to the experts. In her book ?21st-Century Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at Stanford and longtime champion of the avant-garde, claims the ?dominant? mode in poetry these days is ?expressivist,? whereas experimental writing involves ?constructivism ... the specific understanding that language, far from being a vehicle or conduit for thoughts or feelings outside and prior to it, is itself the site of meaning-making.? She fleshes out this concept with quotations from several contemporary avant-garde poets, who argue among other things that ?there are no thoughts except through language? and ?as soon as I start listening to the words they reveal their own vectors and affinities, pull the poem into their own field of force, often in unforeseen directions.? Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as it goes? and ?may be worked over once it is in being, but may not be worried into being,? because ultimately ?the whole thing is performance and prowess and feats of association.? After all, where a given poem is concerned, ?what do I want to communicate but what a hell of a good time I had writing it?? Such poems necessarily disdain lyric sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the pleasure of ulteriority? and are usually ? no surprise ? aggressively bookish (?So many of them have literary criticism in them ? in them?). Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more conservative tastes, but as a general description of much of today?s most successful experimental writing, it?s not too bad. The problem, however, is that only the first two of those statements were actually made by contemporary avant-garde poets. Everything else, of course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, to put it mildly, rarely described as a forefather of vanguard poetics). The point here is not that our self-consciously avant-garde writers are kidding themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class was sliding along the razor?s edge of American culture by reading ?Birches.? No, the point is that whenever we begin forming up teams in American poetry, we run into the problem of picking sides for such complex and hard-to-place poets as Frost, T. S. Eliot and Wallace Stevens (not to mention Marianne Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine Niedecker). Rather than take these writers as they are ? rather than acknowledge, for example, that Frost was as innovative as many poets more often considered ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such figures to a size better suited to the game we want to play. We cut the poet to fit the jersey. --David Orr ------ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks Sun Feb 4 12:48:44 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 09:48:44 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem In-Reply-To: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> > David Graham wrote: > > Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's > journals, by David Orr > There's oar and there's ore and there's or in that Orr Ain't the truth wonderful? Anti-Toximanic-Barry From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 12:58:30 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:58:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: Message-ID: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I've long considered David Orr perhaps the worst mainstream critic of poetry around--as you no doubt know, David--or would guess. The latest evidence of that is that he goes to Marjorie Perloff, "a professor emerita at Stanford," to find out about "21st-Century Modernism," like a good NY Times critic should. Here's a question: if Frost was innovative, what American poet was not? Follow-up question, if you can name one: why not? Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better than just about anyone else. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 4 13:08:49 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:08:49 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about > poetry. But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way > of doing anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing > poetry better than just about anyone else. ------------ We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 13:17:29 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:17:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003601c74888$bb855ca0$298d3052@ANNY> I always see (horror) it might be my Italian misleading (orrore)... From: "Barry Spacks" Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:48 PM > >> David Graham wrote: >> >> Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent edition of Frost's >> journals, by David Orr >> > There's oar and there's ore and there's or in that Orr > > Ain't the truth wonderful? > > Anti-Toximanic-Barry From halvard Sun Feb 4 13:32:17 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:32:17 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1- or 2-line poem In-Reply-To: <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> Message-ID: <86DC4521-F83D-4DE1-B0FD-7F9CFEDC0F4D@earthlink.net> po tramline Hal "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 13:36:04 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:36:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <005601c7488b$55d38cd0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better than just about anyone else. ------------ We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. Right, David, which is why you provided us with the Orr quotation you did. But I admit I was just doing my duty as New-Poetry's main representative of the otherstream by repeating my boilerplate. BUT, if you can't name a poet who is not innovative, what use is the term? Connectedly, what term should we use to distinguish a Pound or Stein or Hopkins from a Frost--so far as conventionality versus unconventionality is concerned? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 13:38:54 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:38:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem References: <200702041700.l14H05t5004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu><27CEB5F5-EA3B-412C-8AD1-8C55A4C39877@verizon.net> <003601c74888$bb855ca0$298d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <005b01c7488b$ba8ee750$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'd like to say I see "err," but I don't. A penned sheep will never go the wrong way. --Bob G. From Rsgwynn1 Sun Feb 4 13:47:03 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:47:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem Message-ID: In a message dated 2/4/2007 12:36:48 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > I'd like to say I see "err," but I don't. A penned sheep will never go the > wrong way. > To orr is human; to forgive, Andy Devine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 14:58:25 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:58:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Message-ID: 2 roadivers ina yell-o-wood, & sorrie couldn?t travail uncouth An? be monotraveler, I lonnnng stood & looked [down] as-far-as could to wherit being [under]growth. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 4 15:28:04 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 15:28:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: Message-ID: <006301c7489a$f99f5240$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Call me crazy, but I like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge 2 roadivers ina yell-o-wood, & sorrie couldn?t travail uncouth An? be monotraveler, I lonnnng stood & looked [down] as-far-as could to wherit being [under]growth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 16:38:57 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:38:57 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears Message-ID: Leavetaking One the morning they left we said goodbye filled with sadness for the absence of come Inside the palanquins on the camels? backs I saw their faces beautiful as moons behind veils of gold cloth. Beneath the veils tears crept like scorpions over the fragrant roses of their cheeks. Ibn Khaf?ja (1058-1138) Poems of Arab Adalusia, City Lights, 1989, translated by Cola Franzen -- In the Lake District In those days, in a place where dentists thrive (their daughters order fancy clothes from London; their painted forceps hold aloft on signboards a common and abstracted Wisdom Tooth), there I?whose mouth held ruins more abject than any Parthenon?a spy, a spearhead from some fifth column of a rotting culture (my cover was a lit. professorship), was living at a college near the most renowned of the fresh-water lakes; the function to which I?d been appointed was to wear out the patience of the ingenuous local youth. Whatever I wrote then was incomplete: my lines expired in strings of dots. Collapsing, I dropped, still fully dressed, upon my bed. At night I stared up at the darkened ceiling until I saw a shooting star, which then, conforming to the laws of self-combustion, would flash?before I'd even made a wish? across my cheek and down onto my pillow. --Joseph Brodsky, "In the Lake District," (translated by Geo. L. Kline), A Part of Speech, FSG, 1980 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 4 17:26:55 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:26:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <006301c7489a$f99f5240$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <010301c748ab$eb601aa0$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Call me crazy, but I like that. --Mole I don't--it's too experiemental. --Ubermole -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 17:37:25 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 17:37:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears Message-ID: Typo alert: "On the morning they left..." here corrected... Leavetaking On the morning they left we said goodbye filled with sadness for the absence of come Inside the palanquins on the camels? backs I saw their faces beautiful as moons behind veils of gold cloth. Beneath the veils tears crept like scorpions over the fragrant roses of their cheeks. Ibn Khaf?ja (1058-1138) Poems of Arab Adalusia, City Lights, 1989, translated by Cola Franzen -- In the Lake District In those days, in a place where dentists thrive (their daughters order fancy clothes from London; their painted forceps hold aloft on signboards a common and abstracted Wisdom Tooth), there I?whose mouth held ruins more abject than any Parthenon?a spy, a spearhead from some fifth column of a rotting culture (my cover was a lit. professorship), was living at a college near the most renowned of the fresh-water lakes; the function to which I?d been appointed was to wear out the patience of the ingenuous local youth. Whatever I wrote then was incomplete: my lines expired in strings of dots. Collapsing, I dropped, still fully dressed, upon my bed. At night I stared up at the darkened ceiling until I saw a shooting star, which then, conforming to the laws of self-combustion, would flash?before I'd even made a wish? across my cheek and down onto my pillow. --Joseph Brodsky, "In the Lake District," (translated by Geo. L. Kline), A Part of Speech, FSG, 1980 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 17:47:31 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:47:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] 50 years of concrete poetry Message-ID: <008d01c748ae$748dd4f0$298d3052@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:36 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] 50 years of concrete poetry With Geof Huth, Gregory Vincent Thomasino, mIEKAL aND, Luc Fierens, Nikos Vassilakis, ... see here -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/04/2007 11:30:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 17:49:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:49:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears References: Message-ID: <009c01c748ae$ad9dae50$298d3052@ANNY> Two exceptional poems of the first the last stanza and the same name is a poetic line ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetic image: two tears Typo alert: "On the morning they left..." here corrected... Leavetaking On the morning they left we said goodbye filled with sadness for the absence of come Inside the palanquins on the camels? backs I saw their faces beautiful as moons behind veils of gold cloth. Beneath the veils tears crept like scorpions over the fragrant roses of their cheeks. Ibn Khaf?ja (1058-1138) Poems of Arab Adalusia, City Lights, 1989, translated by Cola Franzen -- In the Lake District In those days, in a place where dentists thrive (their daughters order fancy clothes from London; their painted forceps hold aloft on signboards a common and abstracted Wisdom Tooth), there I?whose mouth held ruins more abject than any Parthenon?a spy, a spearhead from some fifth column of a rotting culture (my cover was a lit. professorship), was living at a college near the most renowned of the fresh-water lakes; the function to which I?d been appointed was to wear out the patience of the ingenuous local youth. Whatever I wrote then was incomplete: my lines expired in strings of dots. Collapsing, I dropped, still fully dressed, upon my bed. At night I stared up at the darkened ceiling until I saw a shooting star, which then, conforming to the laws of self-combustion, would flash?before I'd even made a wish? across my cheek and down onto my pillow. --Joseph Brodsky, "In the Lake District," (translated by Geo. L. Kline), A Part of Speech, FSG, 1980 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Feb 4 21:55:00 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 18:55:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. David Graham wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. >> But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing >> anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better >> than just about anyone else. > > ------------ > > We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a > way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over > before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more > interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in > choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jorgensen_a Sun Feb 4 22:20:50 2007 From: jorgensen_a (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:20:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge - Creeley anecdote In-Reply-To: <200702041700.l14H05t6004519@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <193777.58516.qm@web54611.mail.yahoo.com> As an aside, and this is the first time for me posting, have been a lurker, think it's called, much appreciating the thoughtful posts, I'd like to share an anecdote loosely related to Frost. Guess it was 10 years ago. I called Robert Creeley on the telephone, following our first exchange of letters, told him almost gushingly how much I appreciated his work and his time. Well, the first thing he said, and did so forcefully, was that he "wasn't Robert Frost or anything". Now, that doesn't change his insecurities, or deep sense of not wanting to be that felled tree heard by noone, or anything else someone might say, but it was nice - and we'd joke about it for a few months after. AJ --- new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to > new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Frost on the edge (David Graham) > 2. Re: Frost on the edge (Anny Ballardini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:49:22 -0600 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge > To: "NewPoetry & Views" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent > edition of Frost's > journals, by David Orr: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html? > > _r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin > > ------------- > The longest-running feud is probably the > low-intensity border war > between so-called experimental poets and their > ?mainstream? brethren. > Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most > people, saying > ?mainstream poetry? is like saying ?mainstream > tapestry-weaving?), > it?s helpful to turn to the experts. In her book > ?21st-Century > Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at > Stanford and > longtime champion of the avant-garde, claims the > ?dominant? mode in > poetry these days is ?expressivist,? whereas > experimental writing > involves ?constructivism ... the specific > understanding that > language, far from being a vehicle or conduit for > thoughts or > feelings outside and prior to it, is itself the site > of meaning- > making.? She fleshes out this concept with > quotations from several > contemporary avant-garde poets, who argue among > other things that > ?there are no thoughts except through language? and > ?as soon as I > start listening to the words they reveal their own > vectors and > affinities, pull the poem into their own field of > force, often in > unforeseen directions.? > > Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as > it goes? and ?may > be worked over once it is in being, but may not be > worried into > being,? because ultimately ?the whole thing is > performance and > prowess and feats of association.? After all, where > a given poem is > concerned, ?what do I want to communicate but what a > hell of a good > time I had writing it?? Such poems necessarily > disdain lyric > sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the > pleasure of > ulteriority? and are usually ? no surprise ? > aggressively bookish > (?So many of them have literary criticism in them ? > in them?). > Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more > conservative tastes, > but as a general description of much of today?s most > successful > experimental writing, it?s not too bad. > > The problem, however, is that only the first two of > those statements > were actually made by contemporary avant-garde > poets. Everything > else, of course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, > to put it mildly, > rarely described as a forefather of vanguard > poetics). The point here > is not that our self-consciously avant-garde writers > are kidding > themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class > was sliding along > the razor?s edge of American culture by reading > ?Birches.? No, the > point is that whenever we begin forming up teams in > American poetry, > we run into the problem of picking sides for such > complex and hard-to- > place poets as Frost, T. S. Eliot and Wallace > Stevens (not to mention > Marianne Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine > Niedecker). Rather than > take these writers as they are ? rather than > acknowledge, for > example, that Frost was as innovative as many poets > more often > considered ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such > figures to a > size better suited to the game we want to play. We > cut the poet to > fit the jersey. > > --David Orr > > ------ > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070204/69d5b2a4/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:12:08 +0100 > From: "Anny Ballardini" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > > Message-ID: <001b01c7487f$9a8da8d0$298d3052 at ANNY> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Frost once said he wanted to be seen as ?the > exception I like to think I am in everything.? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Graham > To: NewPoetry & Views > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:49 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge > > > Very interesting NYTimes review of the recent > edition of Frost's journals, by David Orr: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/books/review/Orr2.t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&ref=review&oref=slogin > > > ------------- > The longest-running feud is probably the > low-intensity border war between so-called > experimental poets and their ?mainstream? brethren. > Since the distinctions can be hard to parse (to most > people, saying ?mainstream poetry? is like saying > ?mainstream tapestry-weaving?), it?s helpful to turn > to the experts. In her book ?21st-Century > Modernism,? Marjorie Perloff, a professor emerita at > Stanford and longtime champion of the avant-garde, > claims the ?dominant? mode in poetry these days is > ?expressivist,? whereas experimental writing > involves ?constructivism ... the specific > understanding that language, far from being a > vehicle or conduit for thoughts or feelings outside > and prior to it, is itself the site of > meaning-making.? She fleshes out this concept with > quotations from several contemporary avant-garde > poets, who argue among other things that ?there are > no thoughts except through language? and ?as soon as > I start listening to the words they reveal their own > vectors and affi! > nities, pull the poem into their own field of force, > often in unforeseen directions.? > > Indeed, experimental poetry ?finds its own name as > it goes? and ?may be worked over once it is in > being, but may not be worried into being,? because > ultimately ?the whole thing is performance and > prowess and feats of association.? After all, where > a given poem is concerned, ?what do I want to > communicate but what a hell of a good time I had > writing it?? Such poems necessarily disdain lyric > sincerity in favor of what one writer calls ?the > pleasure of ulteriority? and are usually ? no > surprise ? aggressively bookish (?So many of them > have literary criticism in them ? in them?). > Admittedly, this approach may not appeal to more > conservative tastes, but as a general description of > much of today?s most successful experimental > writing, it?s not too bad. > > The problem, however, is that only the first two > of those statements were actually made by > contemporary avant-garde poets. Everything else, of > course, was said by Robert Frost (who is, to put it > mildly, rarely described as a forefather of vanguard > poetics). The point here is not that our > self-consciously avant-garde writers are kidding > themselves, or that your ninth-grade English class > was sliding along the razor?s edge of American > culture by reading ?Birches.? No, the point is that > whenever we begin forming up teams in American > poetry, we run into the problem of picking sides for > such complex and hard-to-place poets as Frost, T. S. > Eliot and Wallace Stevens (not to mention Marianne > Moore, Elizabeth Bishop and Lorine Niedecker). > Rather than take these writers as they are ? rather > than acknowledge, for example, that Frost was as > innovative as many poets more often considered > ?experimental? ? we prefer to reduce such figures to > a size better suited to the game we want to pla! > y. We cut the poet to fit the jersey. > > --David Orr > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070204/0038fb12/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 4 > ***************************************** > --- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From grahamd Sun Feb 4 22:25:30 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:25:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> Message-ID: Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" I'm on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining as battle lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, was to question the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old battle lines. I take it you disagree? Say more? On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. > > David Graham wrote: >> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up >> sides in this old and pointless battle. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 4 22:39:26 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:39:26 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: Frost's poetry certainly speaks for itself. It has nothing to fear from time or boundless innovative poetries. He wrote some poems that will outlast hundreds of innovators. Randall Jarrell's essay the "The Other Frost" says it all. The reason this discussion gets tiresome (or pointless), it because it's a simple, or simplistic, dialectic that is being set up. And innovators (or supposed innovators) always seem to forget that they don't innovate ex nihilo. Frost wrote more from the tradition. Without the tradition there is no sense of talking about innovation. The 'innovators' always look to outward...and that space is boundless and their innovation can go on ad infinitum. Yet, if one looks inside, toward inner space, as though one was going inside the atom, the space is equally vast and boundless. Some poets choose the latter course. Finnegan In a message dated 2/4/2007 9:55:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. David Graham wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Frost was a great poet, and I've always loved his prose about poetry. >> But he was not innovative--because he invented no new way of doing >> anything in poetry, just used conventional ways of doing poetry better >> than just about anyone else. > > ------------ > > We've been around this track before. You define "innovative" in such a > way as to restrict it far more than I would do. Our argument is over > before it starts. In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more > interested in looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in > choosing up sides in this old and pointless battle. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Feb 4 22:41:12 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 19:41:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> Message-ID: <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's reputation as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and highly overrated. I also think think if one is looking at a overview of american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp that poetry has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years. If that decline is anybody's fault, it's robert frost's, the popularity of his boring poetry being a signal to the casual observer--who may begin and end his or her encounter with american poetry when he or she reads stopping by the woods on a snowy evening in high school--that this is the nature of all poetry and therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in vague and unmusical ways. David Graham wrote: > Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" I'm > on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining as battle > lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, was to question > the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old battle lines. I take > it you disagree? Say more? > > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. >> >> David Graham wrote: >> >>> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >>> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up >>> sides in this old and pointless battle. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Sun Feb 4 23:09:52 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:09:52 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> Message-ID: <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> Wow. This is a battle I didn't even know I was fighting, against the notion that Frost is boring & overrated & (double wow) unmusical. I've nothing more to say, except good luck fighting that one. . . . And here's a Frost poem for your trouble. TO EARTHWARD Love at the lips was touch As sweet as I could bear; And once that seemed too much; I lived on air That crossed me from sweet things, The flow of-- was it musk From hidden grapevine springs Down hill at dusk? I had the swirl and ache From sprays of honeysuckle That when they're gathered shake Dew on the knuckle. I craved strong sweets, but those Seemed strong when I was young; The petal of the rose It was that stung. Now no joy but lacks salt That is not dashed with pain And weariness and fault; I crave the stain Of tears, the aftermark Of almost too much love, The sweet of bitter bark And burning clove. When stiff and sore and scarred I take away my hand From leaning on it hard In grass and sand, The hurt is not enough: I long for weight and strength To feel the earth as rough To all my length. On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:41 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's > reputation as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and > highly overrated. I also think think if one is looking at a > overview of american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence > has resulted in much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy > Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and > elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp that poetry > has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years. If > that decline is anybody's fault, it's robert frost's, the > popularity of his boring poetry being a signal to the casual > observer--who may begin and end his or her encounter with american > poetry when he or she reads stopping by the woods on a snowy > evening in high school--that this is the nature of all poetry and > therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian > dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in > vague and unmusical ways. > > David Graham wrote: >> Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" >> I'm on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining >> as battle lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, >> was to question the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old >> battle lines. I take it you disagree? Say more? >> On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. >>> >>> David Graham wrote: >>> >>>> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >>>> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing >>>> up sides in this old and pointless battle. >> ======================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ========================================== >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Sun Feb 4 23:14:59 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 20:14:59 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <45C6AF43.50802@myuw.net> yep, it's an uphill battle, i'm sure, and the tides of history and popular are so far against me. i'm too much of a romantic. i think the fact that it's a lost cause makes me want to keep fighting as much as my conviction that i'm right. thanks for the poem. i'll probably go to my grave wondering why people can read stuff like that and not come to the conclusion that frost was tone deaf. David Graham wrote: > Wow. This is a battle I didn't even know I was fighting, against the > notion that Frost is boring & overrated & (double wow) unmusical. > > I've nothing more to say, except good luck fighting that one. . . . > > And here's a Frost poem for your trouble. > > > TO EARTHWARD > > Love at the lips was touch > As sweet as I could bear; > And once that seemed too much; > I lived on air > > That crossed me from sweet things, > The flow of-- was it musk > From hidden grapevine springs > Down hill at dusk? > > I had the swirl and ache > From sprays of honeysuckle > That when they're gathered shake > Dew on the knuckle. > > I craved strong sweets, but those > Seemed strong when I was young; > The petal of the rose > It was that stung. > > Now no joy but lacks salt > That is not dashed with pain > And weariness and fault; > I crave the stain > > Of tears, the aftermark > Of almost too much love, > The sweet of bitter bark > And burning clove. > > When stiff and sore and scarred > I take away my hand > From leaning on it hard > In grass and sand, > > The hurt is not enough: > I long for weight and strength > To feel the earth as rough > To all my length. > > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:41 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's >> reputation as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and highly >> overrated. I also think think if one is looking at a overview of >> american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in >> much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's >> assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and elsewhere) that it is the >> fault of the post/avant camp that poetry has declined in cultural >> currency over the last hundred years. If that decline is anybody's >> fault, it's robert frost's, the popularity of his boring poetry being >> a signal to the casual observer--who may begin and end his or her >> encounter with american poetry when he or she reads stopping by the >> woods on a snowy evening in high school--that this is the nature of >> all poetry and therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by >> stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' >> topics in vague and unmusical ways. >> >> David Graham wrote: >> >>> Jason: Perhaps you'll help me out by letting me know which "side" >>> I'm on, and which of the many possible binaries you're imagining as >>> battle lines in this case. Orr's point, as I understood it, was to >>> question the usefulness and continuing relevance of the old battle >>> lines. I take it you disagree? Say more? >>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >>> >>>> it's only pointless if you're on the side you're so obviously on. >>>> >>>> David Graham wrote: >>>> >>>>> In any case, like David Orr I tend to be far more interested in >>>>> looking at ways in which Frost is a great poet than in choosing up >>>>> sides in this old and pointless battle. >>> >>> ======================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>> ========================================== >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd Sun Feb 4 23:20:06 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:20:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45C6AF43.50802@myuw.net> References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> <2E9D568B-B3BC-4894-B77D-82D9B1DA65C3@ripon.edu> <45C6AF43.50802@myuw.net> Message-ID: <3F504D1C-DC19-4A7A-B28B-55F77A194B37@ripon.edu> On Feb 4, 2007, at 10:14 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > i'll probably go to my grave wondering why people can read stuff > like that and not come to the conclusion that frost was tone deaf. ========== On that, at least, we may agree. > TO EARTHWARD > Love at the lips was touch > As sweet as I could bear; > And once that seemed too much; > I lived on air > That crossed me from sweet things, > The flow of-- was it musk > From hidden grapevine springs > Down hill at dusk? ============== ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Sun Feb 4 23:21:01 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:21:01 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: In a message dated 2/4/2007 11:15:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: i'll probably go to my grave wondering why people can read stuff like that and not come to the conclusion that frost was tone deaf. Dunno. But I'll probably go to my grave convinced that you are tone deaf if you don't hear the music in Frost's work. Dammit. Now I've gone and gotten myself into yet anotehr exchange about Frost. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 4 23:26:08 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 22:26:08 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67CA7E32-36AD-428B-9E9D-D51692E63D3A@ripon.edu> Amen. I still think Jarrell's essays on Frost may be the best thing ever written on him, as his Whitman essay may be on old Walt. I also agree with Bob Grumman that Frost's prose is marvelous. I'm sorry he didn't write more of it. Will have to get a look at the new edition of his journals. Of course, the oppositional impulse, I guess by definition, doesn't go down without a fight, even after the battle has been won. . . . We're always fighting the last war, etc. Not sure that a distinction between "outward" and "inward" space isn't just another too-simple dialectic, though I *think* I see the point. Frost spoke of "the old-fashioned way to be new," as one of his own attempts to describe originality springing from tradition, as of course it always does, whether you're doing new things with iambics, or giving iambics the old heave-ho. On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:39 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Frost's poetry certainly speaks for itself. It has nothing to > fear from time or boundless innovative poetries. He wrote some > poems that will outlast hundreds of innovators. Randall Jarrell's > essay > the "The Other Frost" says it all. > > The reason this discussion gets tiresome (or pointless), it > because it's a simple, or simplistic, dialectic that is being set up. > And innovators (or supposed innovators) always seem to forget > that they don't innovate ex nihilo. Frost wrote more from the > tradition. > Without the tradition there is no sense of talking about innovation. > > The 'innovators' always look to outward...and that space is boundless > and their innovation can go on ad infinitum. Yet, if one looks inside, > toward inner space, as though one was going inside the atom, > the space is equally vast and boundless. Some poets choose > the latter course. > > Finnegan > ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 4 23:58:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 05:58:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net> <45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> Message-ID: <002001c748e2$4a1a6100$38ae3252@ANNY> Hi Jason, you are the same Jason who received so many points from me on the Buffalo for your mail on Derrida, aren't you? I am referring to the following: "that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in vague and unmusical ways" Derrida makes of death one of his turning points, see his thorough deconstruction of Rousseau and language. I don't think David and Bob were talking of Frost before, David was talking as David talks and Bob as Bob does. It is a little complicated to understand but you will get to it as soon as you know them better, the same stone is different and will always be according to one or to the other. It is fundamentally a game in this playground, the same sonnets written by Bob show it, as some very good poems by David. From: "Jason Quackenbush" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:41 AM >i meant you're on the side that wants to shore up robert frost's reputation >as a great american poet. i think frost is dull and highly overrated. I >also think think if one is looking at a overview of american poetry and >it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in much more bad than good. >This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 >introduction and elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp >that poetry has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years. >If that decline is anybody's fault, it's robert frost's, the popularity of >his boring poetry being a signal to the casual observer--who may begin and >end his or her encounter with american poetry when he or she reads stopping >by the woods on a snowy evening in high school--that this is the nature of >all poetry and therefore that poetry itself is boring crap written by >stentorian dead white guys about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in >vague and unmusical ways. > From editor Mon Feb 5 00:03:21 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:03:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost In-Reply-To: <200702050341.l153fCt5014411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <177622.95357.qm@web83103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>>"I also think think if one is looking at a overview of american poetry and it's geneaologies, his influence has resulted in much more bad than good. This contrary to Billy Collins and his ilk's assertion (see poetry 180 introduction and elsewhere) that it is the fault of the post/avant camp that poetry has declined in cultural currency over the last hundred years." Get your facts straight sparky! The experimental "camp" in American poetry has not even been around 100 years. Most place it with the viewing of the Armory show and the break from meter exhibited by those who viewed and wrote poems afterward, primarily: Stevens, WCWilliams, Marianne Moore. Even Pound thot Frost admirable when they met 2 years before the Armory, hoisted and forced him upon a publisher even. Frost' influenced some great poets, Jeffers, J. Berryman, James Wright; how does one assess it was "more bad than good?" Nearly all of the best selling poets of all time are a much better example of harm to the craft: Jewel, Billy Corrigan, Leonard Nimoy, Suzanne Sommers. In fact my memory is Ferlinghetti and one other were the only "real" poets of the top ten. Collins' work is Robert Bly and Jim Tate mixed together, what could be more instantly post/avant and SOQ than that? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rebuketheworld Mon Feb 5 00:06:17 2007 From: Rebuketheworld (Rebuketheworld at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 00:06:17 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge Message-ID: The Frost debate sure went a big longer than I had expected. Sometimes you just wonder, is there even one poet that receives a respected view from the majority. ~Raven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 5 00:26:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 06:26:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <004001c74886$16756b80$96fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9138BA8E-39BF-4FDD-88EB-85E7BAD2AA30@ripon.edu> <45C69C84.9050009@myuw.net><45C6A758.5010506@myuw.net> <002001c748e2$4a1a6100$38ae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <008001c748e6$22dfd1c0$38ae3252@ANNY> Opps Jason, I think I spoke too early, I hadn't read your answer to Sondheim yet, was still in the yesterday. So long. From: "Anny Ballardini" Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:58 AM > Hi Jason, > > you are the same Jason who received so many points from me on the Buffalo > for your mail on Derrida, aren't you? I am referring to the following: > "that poetry itself is boring crap written by stentorian dead white guys > about nature, death, and other 'heady' topics in vague and unmusical ways" > > Derrida makes of death one of his turning points, > see his thorough deconstruction of Rousseau and language. > I don't think David and Bob were talking of Frost before, David was > talking as David talks and Bob as Bob does. It is a little complicated to > understand but you will get to it as soon as you know them better, the > same stone is different and will always be according to one or to the > other. It is fundamentally a game in this playground, the same sonnets > written by Bob show it, as some very good poems by David. From opus40-01 Mon Feb 5 09:28:12 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 08:28:12 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Mon Feb 5 09:29:15 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 08:29:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge - Creeley anecdote Message-ID: <2552.1170685755@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Mon Feb 5 09:37:09 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:37:09 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> References: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> Message-ID: <21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> Reminds me of something Williams Carlos Williams reported about his friendship with Pound. One of their ongoing arguments concerned elitism versus populism, roughly. You can guess who stood up for which. After a while, WCW reported, they no longer needed to have their argument. Pound would just say "caviar!", and Williams would reply, "bread!" --------------------------------------- On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:28 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > No, it's pointless on both sides if, like Dave and Bob, you're old > friends and old antagonists who have had the same argument year in > and year out, and each knows he won't get the other to budge. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Mon Feb 5 09:41:45 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 07:41:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> References: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org> <21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60702050641v659588f0s63303bc5407cfef8@mail.gmail.com> Williams would say "bread," and Grumman would have responded, "but there are 17 varieties of bread; mine is the neglected loaf." ;-) ;-) ;-) - Jim On 2/5/07, David Graham wrote: > Reminds me of something Williams Carlos Williams reported about his > friendship with Pound. One of their ongoing arguments concerned elitism > versus populism, roughly. You can guess who stood up for which. > > After a while, WCW reported, they no longer needed to have their argument. > Pound would just say "caviar!", and Williams would reply, "bread!" > > --------------------------------------- > > On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:28 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > No, it's pointless on both sides if, like Dave and Bob, you're old friends > and old antagonists who have had the same argument year in and year out, and > each knows he won't get the other to budge. > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From alexdickow9 Mon Feb 5 12:54:59 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:54:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] frost In-Reply-To: <200702050341.l153fCt6014411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <402621.8636.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David, I'm afraid Jason and Bob will find an ally here: I've always hated Frost, almost as much as I hate Carl Sandburg -- even if I think Jason could have been a tad more, uh, diplomatic and respectful towards you in his language. However, I'd say the problem is not that Frost isn't musical, but that he's much too musical, in that placid, cud-chewing way that I found so distasteful when I was, say, in highschool. Sorry to join the fray, and with my due respects to you, since we elsewhere share many tastes, as far as I can tell. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From grahamd Mon Feb 5 13:51:32 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:51:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost In-Reply-To: <402621.8636.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Somewhere long ago in an interview James Wright was asked about his admiration for some not-very-fashionable old writer. Can't remember if it was Herrick, but maybe it was. Anyway, his reply to why he liked Whomever was "Just lucky, I guess." That's sort of how I feel about my love of Frost's work. I hated it throughout high school and college, too, as a matter of fact. What turned things around for me were two experiences. First, I read Jarrell's essays and Richard Poirier's book in grad school, and realized that Frost was in many ways a radically challenging poet intellectually. The second thing was that I had the good fortune to hear a couple poets who not only loved Frost but who read him aloud marvellously: Donald Hall and my old teacher Joe Langland. I could finally *hear* the music. I re-recommend Jarrell's essays on Frost. If anyone reads them and still finds Frost dull, complacent, sentimental, or whatever, well, that's probably that. You've given it your best shot. Either that, or go visit Joe Langland and hear him do "Directive" from memory. . . On 2/5/07 11:54 AM, "Alexander Dickow" wrote: > David, > I'm afraid Jason and Bob will find an ally here: I've > always hated Frost, almost as much as I hate Carl > Sandburg -- even if I think Jason could have been a > tad more, uh, diplomatic and respectful towards you in > his language. However, I'd say the problem is not that > Frost isn't musical, but that he's much too musical, > in that placid, cud-chewing way that I found so > distasteful when I was, say, in highschool. > Sorry to join the fray, and with my due respects to > you, since we elsewhere share many tastes, as far as I > can tell. > Amicalement, > Alex > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 5 15:26:22 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:26:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Jerry McGuire Message-ID: <008401c74963$e6d38400$1da93852@ANNY> :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Jerry McGuire date Feb 5, 2007 6:06 PM subject yr hero for breast cancer mailed-by louisiana.edu Having lied about my overall health to the organizers of this year's five-kilometer "race" [that is, in my case, walk] on March 17th to raise money for breast cancer research, and figuring I might not survive this one, I thought I'd drop a note to all my layabout friends to encourage them to make a contribution out of respect for my heroic sacrifice. I'm attaching the standard blurb below. Maybe you could forward this part of it to some of your friends, see if they want to send a contribution. Our English department "team" got the most cash contributions last year (I wasn't part of it then), so I'm hoping the Goddess helps us cash in. (Of course, if you want me to take it down, just let me know.)But first, a confidential note to the men on my list (meet me at camera three): fellows, let's be realistic. Given all our shoddy performances and bad behavior through the years, we've put ourselves in a very sticky position. The way I see it, to get women on our side for our probable bout with testicular cancer and our inevitable date with our prostate, we'll have to humor them by giving money for breast cancer now. So think of this as an investment in your own sorry old age--and don't skip, or they'll never let me live it down. Cheers, Jerry Please help in the fight against breast cancer by sponsoring me in the 2007 Komen Acadiana Race for the Cure. You can do this in 3 easy steps. 1.Go to komenacadiana.kintera.org and click on "Donate to a Participant." 2.Select my name from the Participant List. And you'll have to type it in immediately afterwards: Jerry McGuire. 3.Enter the amount of your donation and your credit card information. ________________________________________________________ _________ Jerry McGuire English Department Box 44691 University of Louisiana at Lafayette Lafayette LA 70504-4691 337-482-5478 Creative Writing Website: http://www.louisiana.edu/Academic/LiberalArts/ENGL/Creative/Index.html -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/05/2007 08:50:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Feb 5 15:49:10 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:49:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c74967$1c0335a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> One line poems with titles (or is that cheating?): Alzheimer's A good head start. * Poem for McDonald's (after opening it's Moscow "restraurant." If you can eat it here, you can eat it anywhere. * For my students: Let's put the youth back in euthanasia. * Ode to Autumn I change more light bulbs. * But there is a one word poem written by a San Francisco graffiti signer (whatever they are called) which is one of the best of its kind. A whale had beached itself on Ocean Beach and before an hour was up our poet had spray-painted the dying whale with his tag: "Rat," proving once again that the world itself is a poem. (And I wonder about the difficulties. Did he have to dry a patch of the whale's body? Were the authorities in presence? Where did he tag the whale? Etc. It's always nice knowing the biographical details of great work.) :-) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:47 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: 1-line poem In a message dated 2/4/2007 12:36:48 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: I'd like to say I see "err," but I don't. A penned sheep will never go the wrong way. To orr is human; to forgive, Andy Devine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Feb 5 17:27:25 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:27:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge References: <2519.1170685692@opus40.org><21C0FB4A-0FEE-42BD-8D9E-6B8EB3ED1619@ripon.edu> <648208b60702050641v659588f0s63303bc5407cfef8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ac01c74974$d30cbd90$acfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Williams would say "bread," and Grumman would have responded, "but > there are 17 varieties of bread; mine is the neglected loaf." > > ;-) ;-) ;-) > > - Jim Your analogy is so bad, I can't figure out how to correct it, Jim. I say that there is mainstream poetry which can be split into two or three varieties, and non-mainstream poetry, which can be split into 17 varieties, ALL of them ignored by people like you and David and Barry. --Bob From JforJames Mon Feb 5 18:30:01 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:30:01 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost Message-ID: In a message dated 2/5/2007 1:52:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: I hated it throughout high school and college, too, as a matter of fact. What turned things around for me were two experiences. First, I read Jarrell's essays and Richard Poirier's book in grad school, and realized that Frost was in many ways a radically challenging poet intellectually. Very similar to my own experience with. It took me a while to realize the depth and breadth of his merits as poet. It's like Matisse or Monet... some of it is too easy to like...so I didn't want to like it. It wasn't 'innovative' enough, dare I say. But I came around...hearing Frost read the poems helped too. The gravitas and bravura got me, and I began to understand that in his time only Wm. James knew more about the human pysche. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 5 18:42:10 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:42:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: frost Message-ID: In a message dated 2/5/2007 6:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The gravitas and bravura got me, and I began to understand that in his time only Wm. James knew more about the human pysche. I know they weren't contemporaneous...James was all Victorian, Frost overlapped and went into the modern period. "It has sometimes crossed my mind that James wanted to be a poet and an artist, and that there lay in him, beneath the ocean of metaphysics, a lost Atlantis of fine arts: and that he really hated philosophy and all its works, and pursued them only as Hercules might spin or as a prince in a fairy tale sorts seeds for an evil dragon, or as anyone might patiently do some careful work for which he had no aptitude." John J. Chapman, a friend of William James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Mon Feb 5 19:25:38 2007 From: jfq (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 16:25:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sure, emily dickinson. everybody respects emily dickinson. and really, i think that i'm pretty alone in my Robert-Frost-Hate. On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 Rebuketheworld at aol.com wrote: > The Frost debate sure went a big longer than I had expected. Sometimes you > just wonder, is there even one poet that receives a respected view from the > majority. ~Raven > From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 04:50:39 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:50:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Heinrich Heine, 1823 Message-ID: <002d01c749d4$427b4de0$2ce03652@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Heinrich Heine, 1823 Die Lorelei Ich wei? nicht, was soll es bedeuten, Da? ich so traurig bin, Ein M?rchen aus uralten Zeiten, Das kommt mir nicht aus dem Sinn. Die Luft ist k?hl und es dunkelt, Und ruhig flie?t der Rhein; Der Gipfel des Berges funkelt, Im Abendsonnenschein. Die sch?nste Jungfrau sitzet Dort oben wunderbar, Ihr gold'nes Geschmeide blitzet, Sie k?mmt ihr goldenes Haar, Sie k?mmt es mit goldenem Kamme, Und singt ein Lied dabei; Das hat eine wundersame, Gewalt'ge Melodei. Den Schiffer im kleinen Schiffe, Ergreift es mit wildem Weh; Er schaut nicht die Felsenriffe, Er schaut nur hinauf in die H?h'. Ich glaube, die Wellen verschlingen Am Ende Schiffer und Kahn, Und das hat mit ihrem Singen, Die Loreley getan. Heinrich Heine -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 2/06/2007 08:44:00 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Tue Feb 6 11:38:57 2007 From: editor (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:38:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 50 ANIVERSARIO DE LA POESIA CONCRETA Message-ID: <200702061639.l16GcwOO003197@mail27.atl.registeredsite.com> .?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? 50 ANIVERSARIO DE LA POESIA CONCRETA Disfrute de este espacio en la website BOEK861 de C?sar Reglero, dedicado al homenaje de los 50 a?os de la Poes?a Concreta. http://www.boek861.com/stutgart/ 50 ANNIVERSARY OF CONCRETE POETRY Enjoy this space in Cesar Reglero?s website BOEK861, dedicated to Homage 50 Years of Concrete Poetry. http://boek861.com/stutgart/index_en.htm PARTICIPANTES - PARTICIPANTS Giovanni Fontana, Adam Fong, Adolf, Agust?n Calvo Gal?n, Alejandro Thornton, Alkak Luiz dos Santos y Gilbertto Prado, Ana Glafira, Anamar?a Briede, Angela Ib??ez, Antonella Prota Giurleo, Antoni Albalat, Antonio C?res, Antonio Monterroso, Antonio Orihuela, Baldo Ramos, Beatriz San Mill?n, Birger Jesch, Brian Whitener, Carol Starr, Caterina Davinio, Cecil Touchon, Cesar Reglero, Christian Hasucha, Cirus Console, Claudia del Rio, Claudio Grandinetti, Clemente Pad?n, Constan?a Lucas, Costis, Dan Buck, David Daniels, Demosthene Agrafiotis, Denis Charmot, Emerenciano, Eugenia Serafini, Fausto Grossi, Feliciano Mira, Francesc Xavier For?s, Franco Focardi, Franklin Valverde, G. J. de Rook, Geof Huth, Gerardo Podhajny, Graciela Guti?rrez Marx, Gregory Vincent St Thomasino, Gunther Ruch, Gustavo Fern?ndez Alonso, Gustavo Vega, Henning Mittendorf, Irving Weiss, Isabel Jover, Ivan Etienne, J. M. Calleja, Jeanete EKohler, Joaquim Branco, John Bennett, Jorge Ismael Rodr?guez, Jos? Blanco, Josep Sou, Julien Blaine, Jurgen O.Olbrich, Keiichi Nakamura, Kostas Hrisos, Leticia Alonso Hern?ndez, Litsa Spathi, Lois Gil Magari?os, Lorena Cordero, Luc Fierens, Manuel A. Sousa, Mara Caruso, Mar?a Jos? Ares Mondino, Mark Sutherland, Michael Morris, Miekal And, Miguel Jim?nez Zen?n, Monica Vallejo, Neusa Cauduro, Nicola Frangione, Nikos Vassilakis, Norberto Jos? Mart?nez, P.Thoma, Patricia Robledo, Patricia Sibar, Paul de Vree, Paul Tiilil?, Rainer Stolz, Reed Altemus, Regina Vater, Roberto Scala, Rocia Alegre, Rod Summers, Ruediger Axel Westphal, Ruud Janssen, Sergio Monteiro, Shutaro Mukai, Silvia Lisa, Susana Romano, Tamara Wyndham, Thierry Tiliier, Tom Gaze, Vaclav Havel, Virginia Oviedo Rodr?guez y Vittore Baroni. posted by gregory vincent st. thomasino http://eratio.blogspot.com/ http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ .?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.? From alexdickow9 Tue Feb 6 13:26:42 2007 From: alexdickow9 (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 10:26:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <200702061700.l16H05t6015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim Finnegan wrote: "It's like Matisse or Monet... some of it is too easy to like..." Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either easy to like at all, and not because they're "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't he have just stuck with textile design? Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From barry.spacks Tue Feb 6 15:26:43 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 12:26:43 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Williams' "bread" vs. Pound's "caviar" In-Reply-To: <200702061700.l16H05t5015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702061700.l16H05t5015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <7FF7C927-D9EF-454C-82D1-EFAA98FC15A6@verizon.net> > caviar sandwich? Barry From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 16:21:53 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 22:21:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> Monet? I love Monet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > Jim Finnegan wrote: > "It's like Matisse or > Monet... > some of it is too easy to like..." > > Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either > easy to like at all, and not because they're > "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what > they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in > complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't > he have just stuck with textile design? > Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays > if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. > Amicalement, > Alex > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard Tue Feb 6 16:51:15 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:51:15 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Monet always reminds me of money. Hal "We fought a war on poverty, and poverty won." --Pres. Ronald Reagan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Monet? I love Monet. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > > >> Jim Finnegan wrote: >> "It's like Matisse or >> Monet... >> some of it is too easy to like..." >> >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either >> easy to like at all, and not because they're >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't >> he have just stuck with textile design? >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Tue Feb 6 17:12:49 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:12:49 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur at 85 Message-ID: _http://www.timesunion.com/ASPStories/Story.asp?StoryID=559725&Category=ARTS&L inkFrom=RSS_ (http://www.timesunion.com/ASPStorie s/Story.asp?StoryID=559725&Category=ARTS&LinkFrom=RSS) At 85, poet Wilbur remains a man of words By HILLEL ITALIE, Associated Press First published: Sunday, February 4, 2007 CUMMINGTON, Mass. - Poetry is not literally in the air as you drive through the foothills of the Berkshire Mountains, but as the temperature cools and your cellphone loses its signal, a certain space does open up in your mind, a swell of rhythms from an older and calmer time. Cummington, a small town once home to 19th-century poet William Cullen Bryant, is the primary residence of one of today's most celebrated poets and translators, Richard Wilbur. The 85-year-old is a Pulitzer Prize-winner and former U.S. poet laureate, often cited as an heir to Robert Frost and other New England writers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:16:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:16:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005f01c74a3c$6c25ac90$45df3052@ANNY> :-) poor, he was blind, can you imagine that for a painter... (yes, I do have these senseless romantic outbursts...) From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:51 PM > Monet always reminds me of money. > > Hal > > "We fought a war on poverty, > and poverty won." > --Pres. Ronald Reagan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> Monet? I love Monet. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" >> >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 >> >> >>> Jim Finnegan wrote: >>> "It's like Matisse or >>> Monet... >>> some of it is too easy to like..." >>> >>> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either >>> easy to like at all, and not because they're >>> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what >>> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in >>> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't >>> he have just stuck with textile design? >>> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays >>> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. >>> Amicalement, >>> Alex >>> >>> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >>> >>> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >>> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From bobgrumman Tue Feb 6 17:18:55 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:18:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Monet? I love Monet. WHAT??? YOU DON'T LOVE MATISSE!?!? Stupit Italian! I'm weird. I like just about everything in canonical (and near-canonical) painting from around 1700 to Matisse, and almost everything after. --Bob From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:20:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:20:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet Message-ID: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1552 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1275 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1939 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:25:07 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:25:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <008001c74a3d$a8440900$45df3052@ANNY> I didn't say I do not like Matisse, but I can understand that a someone who looks from the outside can find something not linear with him, me, I am a sink /gutter if you prefer, similar to you From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:18 PM > > >> Monet? I love Monet. > > WHAT??? YOU DON'T LOVE MATISSE!?!? Stupit Italian! > > I'm weird. I like just about everything in canonical (and near-canonical) > painting from around 1700 to Matisse, and almost everything after. > > --Bob From bobgrumman Tue Feb 6 17:43:30 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:43:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY><00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> <008001c74a3d$a8440900$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <00c701c74a40$3c4d9bf0$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I didn't say I do not like Matisse, but I can understand that a someone who >looks from the outside can find something not linear with him, me, > I am a sink /gutter if you prefer, similar to you Hey, you shouldda said, "Monet and Matisse? I love those birds!" Too late now. You're on my D-list of Cultured People. --Bob From anny.ballardini Tue Feb 6 17:44:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 23:44:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY><00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc><008001c74a3d$a8440900$45df3052@ANNY> <00c701c74a40$3c4d9bf0$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00a601c74a40$54193910$45df3052@ANNY> You know that I do not like to fight, I don't care where you put me, just put me somewhere... or nowhere, that is fine. From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:43 PM > > >>I didn't say I do not like Matisse, but I can understand that a someone >>who looks from the outside can find something not linear with him, me, >> I am a sink /gutter if you prefer, similar to you > > Hey, you shouldda said, "Monet and Matisse? I love those birds!" Too > late now. You're on my D-list of Cultured People. > > --Bob From rwilsnac Tue Feb 6 17:51:00 2007 From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:51:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <00b901c74a3d$27b98a80$affad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <45C90654.2010507@medicine.nodak.edu> Bob Grumman wrote: > Monet? I love Monet. > > WHAT??? YOU DON'T LOVE MATISSE!?!? Stupit Italian! If all you are interested in is Monet, nothing else Matisse... Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From JforJames Tue Feb 6 17:53:40 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:53:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Message-ID: Monet Refuses the Operation Doctor, you say that there are no haloes around the streetlights in Paris and what I see is an aberration caused by old age, an affliction. I tell you it has taken me all my life to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, to soften and blur and finally banish the edges you regret I don't see, to learn that the line I called the horizon does not exist and sky and water, so long apart, are the same state of being. Fifty-four years before I could see Rouen cathedral is built of parallel shafts of sun, and now you want to restore my youthful errors: fixed notions of top and bottom, the illusion of three-dimensional space, wisteria separate from the bridge it covers. What can I say to convince you the Houses of Parliament dissolve night after night to become the fluid dream of the Thames? I will not return to a universe of objects that don't know each other, as if islands were not the lost children of one great continent. The world is flux, and light becomes what it touches, becomes water, lilies on water, above and below water, becomes lilac and mauve and yellow and white and cerulean lamps, small fists passing sunlight so quickly to one another that it would take long, streaming hair inside my brush to catch it. To paint the speed of light! Our weighted shapes, these verticals, burn to mix with air and changes our bones, skin, clothes to gases. Doctor, if only you could see how heaven pulls earth into its arms and how infinitely the heart expands to claim this world, blue vapor without end. -- Lisel Mueller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Tue Feb 6 17:59:35 2007 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:59:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20070206165851.066de340@mail.ilstu.edu> Wow! I hadn't seen this one. Very nice. At 04:53 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote: > >Monet Refuses the Operation > >Doctor, you say that there are no haloes >around the streetlights in Paris >and what I see is an aberration >caused by old age, an affliction. >I tell you it has taken me all my life >to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, >to soften and blur and finally banish >the edges you regret I don't see, >to learn that the line I called the horizon >does not exist and sky and water, >so long apart, are the same state of being. >Fifty-four years before I could see >Rouen cathedral is built >of parallel shafts of sun, >and now you want to restore >my youthful errors: fixed >notions of top and bottom, >the illusion of three-dimensional space, >wisteria separate >from the bridge it covers. >What can I say to convince you >the Houses of Parliament dissolve >night after night to become >the fluid dream of the Thames? >I will not return to a universe >of objects that don't know each other, >as if islands were not the lost children >of one great continent. The world >is flux, and light becomes what it touches, >becomes water, lilies on water, >above and below water, >becomes lilac and mauve and yellow >and white and cerulean lamps, >small fists passing sunlight >so quickly to one another >that it would take long, streaming hair >inside my brush to catch it. >To paint the speed of light! >Our weighted shapes, these verticals, >burn to mix with air >and changes our bones, skin, clothes >to gases. Doctor, >if only you could see >how heaven pulls earth into its arms >and how infinitely the heart expands >to claim this world, blue vapor without end. > > -- Lisel Mueller >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Tue Feb 6 17:56:43 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 22:56:43 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: always the cheap shots ... On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Monet always reminds me of money. > > Hal > > "We fought a war on poverty, > and poverty won." > --Pres. Ronald Reagan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > > On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > Monet? I love Monet. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" > > > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > > > > > >> Jim Finnegan wrote: > >> "It's like Matisse or > >> Monet... > >> some of it is too easy to like..." > >> > >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either > >> easy to like at all, and not because they're > >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what > >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in > >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't > >> he have just stuck with textile design? > >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays > >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. > >> Amicalement, > >> Alex > >> > >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >> > >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From Rebuketheworld Tue Feb 6 18:06:43 2007 From: Rebuketheworld (Rebuketheworld at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 18:06:43 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Message-ID: _Glenn Beck profiles a 12 year old art prodigy who paints spiritual art work well beyond her years. (December 14)_ (http://dynamic.cnn.com/apps/tp/video/bestoftv/2006/12/14/beck.akiane.child.prodigy.cnn/video.ws.asx?NGUserID=aa570a1- 6893-1166214706-3&adDEmas=R00&hi&cox.net&73&usa&2673101&37&-&-&-&) I just saw this cnn video last night. Here is an artist to know of inspite of ones beliefs or institutions of thought. She writes poetry too. At nine years old she wrote, " Yet when you walk away from the flower, far enough, you see no black spot, just a beautiful blossom." Her website~ _http://www.artakiane.com/press.htm_ (http://www.artakiane.com/press.htm) ~Raven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 6 18:22:55 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:22:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4757AF06-6021-45E6-820B-84B7537176D0@earthlink.net> Puhleez! Inexpensive--never cheap. Hal Please knock before bantering. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 6, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Roger Day wrote: > always the cheap shots ... > > On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Monet always reminds me of money. >> >> Hal >> >> "We fought a war on poverty, >> and poverty won." >> --Pres. Ronald Reagan >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at gmail.com >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> > Monet? I love Monet. >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" >> > >> > To: >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 >> > >> > >> >> Jim Finnegan wrote: >> >> "It's like Matisse or >> >> Monet... >> >> some of it is too easy to like..." >> >> >> >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either >> >> easy to like at all, and not because they're >> >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what >> >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in >> >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't >> >> he have just stuck with textile design? >> >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays >> >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. >> >> Amicalement, >> >> Alex >> >> >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From opus40-01 Tue Feb 6 18:35:55 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 17:35:55 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Message-ID: <1417.1170804955@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Feb 6 19:32:29 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:32:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet In-Reply-To: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> References: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60702061632u60a7e20fr9baf1318ab72a4a6@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Anny, for the three poems. - Jim On 2/6/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From rsillima Tue Feb 6 20:21:41 2007 From: rsillima (Ron Silliman) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:21:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: one million visits later Message-ID: <508722.56227.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT ITEMS The role of spirituality in a world that is no longer god infested (more on Rae Armantrout?s Next Life) On reaching the 1,000,000 visit mark on Silliman?s Blog On Rae Armantrout?s Next Life On Molly Ivins Pedro Almodovar?s Volver The Yam Yad brotherhood (Robert Kelly?s May Day) Kenny Goldsmith Blogging for the Poetry Foundation The ensemble film of globalization (this year it?s Babel) Experimental Forms and Issues of Accessibility (from Susanne Dyckman, Rusty Morrison, Maxine Chernoff, Paul Hoover and Jaime Robles) Critical malpractice in The Nation http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From JforJames Tue Feb 6 21:37:47 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 21:37:47 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet Message-ID: Monet's serial painting of the Rouen cathedral, the poplars, etc., are my favorites. It's a wonderful experience when you get to see a group of 5 or more together in a gallery rooom. Alex, I'm sure knows, that the impressionist & post-impressionists, in their time, were roundly disparaged are 'barbarous artists'. We see the technique immitated now, and it seems conventional practice. As what weekend painters and yourg art students do derivatively. One of things that endeared me to Monet was that he had a 'studio boat' built. A boat where he could push off from the banks of the river, drift along, doing his paintings, assured he wouldn't be interrupted by neighbors or other artists.. Perhaps, my eyes have gone bad. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From debra Tue Feb 6 23:42:54 2007 From: debra (Debra Dicembre) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:42:54 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation References: Message-ID: <002101c74a72$78a847d0$0301010a@galaxy> Mindblowing... I'm glad I took the time to look. I saw another program on a young painter, 11 or 12, an Indian girl, (yes I know , off the poetry topic) who produced such Picasso like works at 4 and 5, again, mindblowing. I can't remember her name. Does anyone know it, or heard of her? DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Rebuketheworld at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Monet Refuses the Operation Glenn Beck profiles a 12 year old art prodigy who paints spiritual art work well beyond her years. (December 14) I just saw this cnn video last night. Here is an artist to know of inspite of ones beliefs or institutions of thought. She writes poetry too. At nine years old she wrote, " Yet when you walk away from the flower, far enough, you see no black spot, just a beautiful blossom." Her website~ http://www.artakiane.com/press.htm ~Raven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Wed Feb 7 03:44:56 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:44:56 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <4757AF06-6021-45E6-820B-84B7537176D0@earthlink.net> References: <20070206182642.11805.qmail@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c74a34$d491d3b0$45df3052@ANNY> <90642210-F5E1-406F-8904-33797211935D@earthlink.net> <4757AF06-6021-45E6-820B-84B7537176D0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hah! always the penny dreadfuls! On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Puhleez! Inexpensive--never cheap. > > Hal > > Please knock before bantering. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Feb 6, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Roger Day wrote: > > > always the cheap shots ... > > > > On 2/6/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > >> Monet always reminds me of money. > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> "We fought a war on poverty, > >> and poverty won." > >> --Pres. Ronald Reagan > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> halvard at gmail.com > >> halvard at earthlink.net > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 6, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> > >> > Monet? I love Monet. > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Dickow" > >> > > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 7:26 PM > >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 32, Issue 7 > >> > > >> > > >> >> Jim Finnegan wrote: > >> >> "It's like Matisse or > >> >> Monet... > >> >> some of it is too easy to like..." > >> >> > >> >> Aaaah!! Do you really mean this? I don't find either > >> >> easy to like at all, and not because they're > >> >> "hackneyed" or "mainstream". I just think most of what > >> >> they did is ugly and boring. Really, truly, and in > >> >> complete good faith. Especially Matisse. Ick. Couldn't > >> >> he have just stuck with textile design? > >> >> Sorry once again. I'll check out those Jarrell essays > >> >> if I get the chance. But I remain skeptical. > >> >> Amicalement, > >> >> Alex > >> >> > >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > >> >> > >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > >> >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > New-Poetry mailing list > >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > -- > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 7 07:21:38 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:21:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet References: <007701c74a3c$fb8fb1a0$45df3052@ANNY> <648208b60702061632u60a7e20fr9baf1318ab72a4a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002801c74ab2$847d3260$c9aa3852@ANNY> I just sent them the way I found them. Re.: Bob Grumman he is such a good friend (gentleman?), had the courtesy of verifying b/c I was not touched by his grunting remark... :-) and I "stole" Finnegan's post to post it to my blog, that Mueller's poem is just something, From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 1:32 AM > Thanks, Anny, for the three poems. > > - Jim > From m.peverett Wed Feb 7 08:39:46 2007 From: m.peverett (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:39:46 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pissarro Refuses the Operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1170855586.45c9d6a20cf07@webmail.ukonline.net> I thought it was Pissarro who refused, thereby dying a martyr to homeoepathy. ---------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 7 09:11:51 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:11:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet References: Message-ID: <002b01c74ac1$ea462e80$c9aa3852@ANNY> Re.: "Perhaps, my eyes have gone bad." I think I am completely blind. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Claude Monet Monet's serial painting of the Rouen cathedral, the poplars, etc., are my favorites. It's a wonderful experience when you get to see a group of 5 or more together in a gallery rooom. Alex, I'm sure knows, that the impressionist & post-impressionists, in their time, were roundly disparaged as 'barbarous artists'. We see the technique imitated now, and it seems conventional practice. As what weekend painters and yourg art students do derivatively. One of things that endeared me to Monet was that he had a 'studio boat' built. A boat where he could push off from the banks of the river, drift along, doing his paintings, assured he wouldn't be interrupted by neighbors or other artists.. Perhaps, my eyes have gone bad. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Wed Feb 7 10:20:26 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:20:26 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman Message-ID: <249108F4-5D8F-4A12-97FB-6E1FF1304E1D@ripon.edu> Thank You My body temperature was below normal; it was like 97.5-- It was like I was turning into a radio station, Which was fine, because my radio had stopped working-- The batteries had died, beautifully, with dignity, in their sleep. The morning paper seemed beyond me, but it was below me. A piece of gunk fell out of my eye And landed on an Associated Press photograph. Russian business leaders with faces like water balloons-- Then a story about children hiding in a leaf pile who were hit by a van. Then the photograph of the demonstrator outside the Federal building-- It was impossible to tell if he was shouting or yawning. Thank you, Walt Whitman, for doing whatever it was you did So that we don't have to write like they did before you came along. --Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Wed Feb 7 10:20:52 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:20:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase" Message-ID: <648208b60702070720r5b80b60do428fa9e671239846@mail.gmail.com> Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase In the museum of very modern art the guard shouts "Don't touch that!" then swooshes back into a cardboard cut-out of himself unable to speak. * The gate works only in the writing of it and will not open in real life where people have a compulsion to touch. * A glint occurs only in special circumstances when the observer is of a certain height and carries himself a certain way when the sun peeks out and strikes the pebble just so. * A leaf flies past. But the windows are up. A maple leaf. You are traveling there. But the windows are up. The red leaf is in the passenger seat, traveling south. How quickly you made it real. * We harbor thoughts as if they were boats that know a language of flags. When they leave all we have is their breeze and ragged edges of color. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From tad Wed Feb 7 10:42:07 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:42:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase" References: <648208b60702070720r5b80b60do428fa9e671239846@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c74ace$8654eee0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Neat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] "Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase" > Poems That Arrived Without a Briefcase > > > In the museum of very modern art > the guard shouts "Don't touch that!" > then swooshes back into a cardboard > cut-out of himself unable to speak. > > * > > The gate works only in the writing of it > and will not open in real life where > people have a compulsion to touch. > > * > > A glint occurs only in special circumstances > when the observer is of a certain height > and carries himself a certain way when the sun > peeks out and strikes the pebble just so. > > * > > A leaf flies past. But the windows are up. > A maple leaf. You are traveling there. > But the windows are up. The red leaf > is in the passenger seat, traveling south. > > How quickly you made it real. > > * > > We harbor thoughts as if they were boats > that know a language of flags. When they leave > all we have is their breeze and ragged edges of color. > > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Wed Feb 7 13:29:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:29:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] I come back to the geography of it Message-ID: <005201c74ae5$f80dab00$60df3652@ANNY> http://ubu.wfmu.org/sound/dial_a_poem_poets/corrupt/Totally-Corrupt_27_olson.mp3 Maximus to Gloucester, Letter 27 [withheld] I come back to the geography of it, the land falling off to the left where my father shot his scabby golf and the rest of us played baseball in the summer darkness until no flies could be seen and we came home to our various piazzas where the women buzzed To the left the land fell to the city, to the right, it fell to the sea I was so young my first memory is of a tent spread to feed lobsters to Rexall conventioneers, and my father, a man for kicks, came out of the tent roaring with a bread-knife in his teeth to take care of a druggist they'd told him had made a pass at my mother, she laughing, so sure, as round as her face, Hines pink and apple, under one of those frame hats women then This, is no bare incoming of novel abstract form, this is no welter or the forms of those events, this, Greeks, is the stopping of the battle It is the imposing of all those antecedent predecessions, the precessions of me, the generation of those facts which are my words, it is coming from all that I no longer am, yet am, the slow westward motion of more than I am There is no strict personal order for my inheritance. No Greek will be able to discriminate my body. An American is a complex of occasions, themselves a geometry of spatial nature. I have this sense, that I am one with my skin Plus this-plus this: that forever the geography which leans in on me I compel backwards I compel Gloucester to yield, to change Polis is this (from the big The Maximus Poems, Charles Olson, Edited by George F. Butterick) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse Wed Feb 7 15:00:53 2007 From: queenmouse (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:00:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur at 85 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "He's one of few writers I've ever known who has a balanced center of gravity," says fellow New England poet Jay Parini, a resident of Middlebury, Vt. "He speaks with clarity, but also with wit and subtlety. And there's not an ounce of pretense about him, in person or in his writing." I studied with Wilbur back when I was an undergraduate (and I still have the elegant letters he sent me during the summer of my freshman year when I sent him my poems and we had a brief correspondence) and I can't even begin to say how utterly true this is. He was one of the most well-spoken, brilliant, genuine, and down to earth people I have ever known. Yep, nodding my head vigorously here. Suzanne Burns -- "I will take the Ring to Mordor...though...I do not know the way." Frodo Baggins, Fellowship of the Ring -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Wed Feb 7 17:36:00 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:36:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Remonet In-Reply-To: <200702071343.l17DhPt5006382@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <332298.16759.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That is funny, Monet always reminds me of Gebr?der Thonet and Cryptonet >>Monet always reminds me of money. >>Hal Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Wed Feb 7 19:19:38 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:19:38 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of California Press Message-ID: With praise like this, who need Wm Logan... Finnegan In a message dated 2/7/2007 2:39:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, enews at ucpress.edu writes: Green and Gray Geoffrey G. O'Brien "O'Brien writes meditative poetry at the highest level. The thinking here is not 'about' anything; rather thinking becomes a modality of being within which the potential of lyric situations unfolds and takes on delightful intensities. These are not poems to interpret but to explore for how the mind attentive to the full resources of lyric traditions stretches the senses and therefore finds itself more truly and more strange."?Charles Altieri Geoffrey G. O'Brien's second collection documents the "remorse of the senses" that attends each moment of experience, the pain and pleasure of not exiting a world in which injustice and . . . For more information, click here: _Green and Gray_ (http://www.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0zOTE3MjImcD0xJnU9MTA2MTUzMDI3JmxpPTEyMDUyODM/index.html) Subjects: Literature; American Literature; Poetry Market: General Interest 978-0-520-25018-5, cloth $50.00 978-0-520-25019-2, paper $19.95 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Wed Feb 7 19:24:19 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:24:19 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of Californi... Message-ID: I get asked for lots of blurbs. I'd rather write a report of my own execution than do one. But, still, I do . . . Someone should put together a book titled "The Collected Blurbs of Richard Howard." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 Thu Feb 8 01:17:21 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:17:21 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of Message-ID: <2044.1170915441@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Thu Feb 8 04:22:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:22:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Happy B. Lisel Mueller Message-ID: <004f01c74b62$fa5fd090$69ed3652@ANNY> >From the Writer's Almanac: Poem: "Why I Need the Birds" by Lisel Mueller, from Alive Together: New and Selected Poems. ? Louisiana State University Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Why I Need the Birds When I hear them call in the morning, before I am quite awake, my bed is already traveling the daily rainbow, the arc toward evening; and the birds, leading their own discreet lives of hunger and watchfulness, are with me all the way, always a little ahead of me in the long-practiced manner of unobtrusive guides. By the time I arrive at evening, they have just settled down to rest; already invisible, they are turning into the dreamwork of trees; and all of us together - myself and the purple finches, the rusty blackbirds, the ruby cardinals, and the white-throated sparrows with their liquid voices - ride the dark curve of the earth toward daylight, which they announce from their high lookouts before dawn has quite broken for me. Literary and Historical Notes: It's the birthday of the poet Lisel Mueller, (books by this author) born in Hamburg, Germany (1924). She fled with her family from Nazi Germany when she was a teenager, and she spent the rest of her adolescence in Indiana. She learned to love English by memorizing the lyrics to American songs she heard on the radio. She has gone on to write many books of poetry in English, including The Need to Hold Still (1980) and Waving from Shore (1989). Her book Alive Together: New and Selected Poems came out in 1996. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse Thu Feb 8 10:03:36 2007 From: queenmouse (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:03:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbs Gone Bad: Re: New Titles from University of Californi... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/7/07, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > Someone should put together a book titled "The Collected Blurbs of Richard > Howard." Okay. Thanks for making me inhale my coffee this morning. That's priceless and so true. Isn't there a java-driven blurb generator (or review generator) out there somewhere? I know someone wrote an "Artistic Statement generator" once. I think the time has come. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccooley Thu Feb 8 13:24:24 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:24:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Thank you, Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: <200702071700.l17H04t6010957@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702071700.l17H04t6010957@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Thanks David. This is the funniest pome I've read in a long time. Besides Hal's of course. > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:20:26 -0600 > From: David Graham > Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman > > Thank You > > My body temperature was below normal; it was like 97.5-- > It was like I was turning into a radio station, > Which was fine, because my radio had stopped working-- > The batteries had died, beautifully, with dignity, in their sleep. > > The morning paper seemed beyond me, but it was below me. > A piece of gunk fell out of my eye > And landed on an Associated Press photograph. > Russian business leaders with faces like water balloons-- > Then a story about children hiding in a leaf pile who were hit by a > van. > > Then the photograph of the demonstrator outside the Federal building-- > It was impossible to tell if he was shouting or yawning. > > Thank you, Walt Whitman, for doing whatever it was you did > So that we don't have to write like they did before you came along. > > > --Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. > From JforJames Thu Feb 8 14:12:15 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:12:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Whittier recovered and recorded Message-ID: _http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626?keyword=secondary story_ (http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626?keyword=secondarystory) Published: February 08, 2007 12:00 am Rediscovering old verses; Recording artist continues mission to celebrate the poetry of John Greenleaf Whittier By Jennie Rundlett , Correspondent Daily News of Newburyport (page 1 of 2) View as a single page AMESBURY - A burning interest in Quaker poet John Greenleaf Whittier has inspired a recording artist who grew up in Dover, N.H., to highlight the verses he believes many people have lost sight of over the years. And with 2007 marking Whittier's 200th birthday, Michael Maglaras, founder of 217 Records, feels it is the perfect time to help people rediscover what he describes as Whittier's illuminating poetry. Whittier was born in Haverhill and spent most of his later life in Amesbury, writing poetry about New England subjects and situations. He died in 1892, yet Maglaras said his name continues to live on, especially in the New England area. "He is one of the most important people in America," said Maglaras, who has set out to record Whittier's poetry in a three-part series of CDs. "But not a whole lot of people read his work and we need to revisit that." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Feb 8 14:18:14 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:18:14 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I heard Matt Cook give a reading night before last: funniest reading I've been to in, well, maybe forever. He's a slammer who also works pretty well on the page, I'd say. *Eavesdrop Soup* is his latest, and apparently there's a new one forthcoming shortly, also from Manic D Press (which may be the funniest press name, come to think of it). On 2/8/07 12:24 PM, "Crisman Cooley" wrote: > Thanks David. This is the funniest pome I've read in a long time. > Besides Hal's of course. > >> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:20:26 -0600 >> From: David Graham >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman >> >> Thank You >> >> My body temperature was below normal; it was like 97.5-- >> It was like I was turning into a radio station, >> Which was fine, because my radio had stopped working-- >> The batteries had died, beautifully, with dignity, in their sleep. >> >> The morning paper seemed beyond me, but it was below me. >> A piece of gunk fell out of my eye >> And landed on an Associated Press photograph. >> Russian business leaders with faces like water balloons-- >> Then a story about children hiding in a leaf pile who were hit by a >> van. >> >> Then the photograph of the demonstrator outside the Federal building-- >> It was impossible to tell if he was shouting or yawning. >> >> Thank you, Walt Whitman, for doing whatever it was you did >> So that we don't have to write like they did before you came along. >> >> >> --Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From JforJames Thu Feb 8 14:42:42 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:42:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman Message-ID: I have a friend who has an early Leaves of Grass edition and inscribed on the flyleaf in Whitman's hand is this quote: "We critique a palace or a cathedral, but what is the good of critiquing a forest?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine Thu Feb 8 14:38:31 2007 From: cvoisine (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:38:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whittier recovered and recorded In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1170963511.45cb7c3787ba5@webmail.nmsu.edu> Kenneth Koch on Whittier (and others...) You Were Wearing You were wearing your Edgar Allan Poe printed cotton blouse. In each divided up square of the blouse was a picture of Edgar Allan Poe. You hair was blonde and you were cute. You asked me, ?Do most boys think that most girls are bad?? I smelled the mould of your seaside resort hotel bedroom on your hair held in place by a John Greenleaf Whittier clip. ?No,? I said, ?it?s girls who think boys are bad.? Then we read Snowbound together and ran around in an attic, so that a little of the blue enamel was scraped off my George Washington, Father of our Country, shoes. Mother was walking in the living room, her Strauss Waltzes comb in her hair. We waited for a time and then joined her, only to be served tea in cups painted with pictures of Herman Melville. As well as with illustrations from his book Moby Dick and from his novella, Benito Cereno. Father came in wearing his Dick Tracy necktie: ?How about a drink, everyone?? I said, ?Let?s go outside a while.? Then we went onto the porch and sat on the Abraham Lincoln swing. You sat on the eyes, mouth, and beard part, and I sat on the knees. In the yard across the street we saw a snowman holding a garbage can lid smashed into a likeness of the mad English king, George the Third. Quoting JforJames at aol.com: > _http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626?keyword=secondary > story_ > (http://www.newburyportnews.com/pulife/local_story_039120626? keyword=secondarystory) > > Published: February 08, 2007 12:00 am > > Rediscovering old verses; Recording artist continues mission to celebrate > the poetry of John Greenleaf Whittier > > By Jennie Rundlett , Correspondent > Daily News of Newburyport > > > (page 1 of 2) > View as a single page > > AMESBURY - A burning interest in Quaker poet John Greenleaf Whittier has > inspired a recording artist who grew up in Dover, N.H., to highlight the > verses > he believes many people have lost sight of over the years. > > And with 2007 marking Whittier's 200th birthday, Michael Maglaras, founder > > of 217 Records, feels it is the perfect time to help people rediscover what > he > describes as Whittier's illuminating poetry. > > Whittier was born in Haverhill and spent most of his later life in Amesbury, > > writing poetry about New England subjects and situations. He died in 1892, > > yet Maglaras said his name continues to live on, especially in the New > England > area. > > "He is one of the most important people in America," said Maglaras, who has > > set out to record Whittier's poetry in a three-part series of CDs. "But not a > > whole lot of people read his work and we need to revisit that." > > > From grahamd Thu Feb 8 14:46:34 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:46:34 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thank you, Walt Whitman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: He has a book signed by Whitman himself ???? Wow. Is it under lock & key? If not, please let me know his address. . .. I have a book signed by Stanley Kunitz, which is nice, but somehow it's not the same. -------------- On 2/8/07 1:42 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > I have a friend who has an early Leaves of Grass edition and > inscribed on the flyleaf in Whitman's hand is this quote: > > "We critique a palace or a cathedral, but what is the good of critiquing a > forest?" > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rebuketheworld Thu Feb 8 15:44:47 2007 From: Rebuketheworld (Rebuketheworld at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:44:47 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Sanity by Raven Smith Message-ID: I wanted to offer this to the loop. I wrote this last night, a rough first draft but having seen so many poems and learning along the way, I am playing around with line breaks. I just wanted some feedback from the loop. ~Raven Sanity by Raven Smith Dispensable sanity, how dare you cry again. That bulldozer took you from me. Insurmountable loss engaging memories flogging me with their unconscionable words, spoken. One after the other, one after the other this black hole undertones the swallowing surrogate in my mind. Give me my arm so I can touch it. Give me my leg so I can feel it. Why interrupt me fool? You, the plotters of distortion?s twirling untroubled hair, tasting the delights of victims where bellies nourish empty, human garbage they say. Tongues licking their facade where flakes of limp souls have fallen, sanity tried. My tender scraps, how could I dismiss you? Fear, you the precision of my repressed hope languishes still but where has the other been? Engaging sanity, my dear. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer Thu Feb 8 20:28:23 2007 From: mheffer (Michael Heffernan) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:28:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. Michael Heffernan From goonyfantastic Thu Feb 8 20:31:55 2007 From: goonyfantastic (Jared Galbraith) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:31:55 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Old New Poem Message-ID: <213da25a0702081731q9fc3eeam515bedf25e8c462@mail.gmail.com> Let me tell you a story to comfort you. Once there was you and you were big and beautiful and blue-skinned and everyday you ran and sat and slept in your day-dreams (you never slept then). You flew forever and far and saw a great many things and grew bigger and beautifuller and bluer skinned. Then someone said "sing" and you sang every color into the universe and all flashing and shining. You sand forever and you sang in your day-dreams. And once when you sang you realized there must be me. And there was, and I listened and day-dreamed. I gave you everything. I had it in my pocket. That made you more big and beautiful and blue-skinned than when you sang the colors. And you never ended. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Thu Feb 8 20:40:03 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:40:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <8B50BB36-E068-4C08-91AD-0FE957E2D2A0@ripon.edu> I love "The Black Cottage." It should be more frequently anthologized. But in fact, as you suggest, there are riches and riches to be discovered, especially in *North of Boston*. Another poem you hardly ever see mentioned is "The Housekeeper"; it's one of the strangest things Frost ever wrote, which is saying something. Readers who think of RF as a complacent pastoralist or cracker-barrel sentimentalist just haven't looked closely at things like "The Housekeeper," "A Servant to Servants," "Home Burial" and the rest. On Feb 8, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Michael Heffernan wrote: > I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of > Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread > masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black > Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? > and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had > nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. > > Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do > it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 Thu Feb 8 21:13:17 2007 From: gejs1 (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:13:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <001701c74bef$dd0863d0$8a70a918@yourae066c3a9b> And please add "Design", with all its challenges. Gerald Schwartz >I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, >all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of >dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to >Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost >was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the >20th century. > > Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out > loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 Thu Feb 8 21:33:35 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:33:35 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: In a message dated 2/8/2007 7:40:13 PM Central Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > > But in fact, as you suggest, there are riches and riches to be discovered, > especially in *North of Boston*. Another poem you hardly ever see mentioned > is "The Housekeeper"; it's one of the strangest things Frost ever wrote, which > is saying something. > "A Hundred Collars" is pretty weird too. I think "A Servant to Servants" ("I 'm not nuts!"--not a direct quote, of course, just a summary) is one of the great ones but unfortunately too long to be anthologized frequently. And what's the one about the guy who throws the Indian down into the well-pit of a grist mill? (Pardon me--my complete poems is at school.) Whatever this guy is, he ain't boring--at least early on. And "The Pauper Witch of Grafton," now that we're talking about it, is about as weird as they get! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes Thu Feb 8 22:45:00 2007 From: AlMaginnes (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:45:00 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Message-ID: In a message dated 2/8/2007 8:28:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, mheffer at uark.edu writes: I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. Michael Heffernan What he said.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq Fri Feb 9 00:06:43 2007 From: jfq (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:06:43 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> i took your challenge. frost is boring. Michael Heffernan wrote: > I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost?s North of Boston, all the way past the ?Greatest Hits? to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including ?The Black Cottage,? ?A Servant to Servants,? and ?The Generations of Men,? and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. > > Has anyone read ?The Bonfire? lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From suelin7184 Fri Feb 9 06:19:00 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 05:19:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Old New Poem References: <213da25a0702081731q9fc3eeam515bedf25e8c462@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401c74c3c$1979a620$0201a8c0@LindaSue> sounds like Krishna ----- Original Message ----- From: Jared Galbraith To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 7:31 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Old New Poem Let me tell you a story to comfort you. Once there was you and you were big and beautiful and blue-skinned and everyday you ran and sat and slept in your day-dreams (you never slept then). You flew forever and far and saw a great many things and grew bigger and beautifuller and bluer skinned. Then someone said "sing" and you sang every color into the universe and all flashing and shining. You sand forever and you sang in your day-dreams. And once when you sang you realized there must be me. And there was, and I listened and day-dreamed. I gave you everything. I had it in my pocket. That made you more big and beautiful and blue-skinned than when you sang the colors. And you never ended. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day Fri Feb 9 06:20:02 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:20:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> Message-ID: Frost - the American Wordsworth. I think the post-revolutionary Wordsworth has a lot in common with Frost: they both seem to recognise the challenges of the 19th and 20th century, then look away. Frost even more so than Wordsworth. Particularly in "Design": it's "challenges" are as moth-eaten as Bishop Paley's bones. So, besides being back-wards looking and ignoring most of the changes of the 19th and 20th century, I'm not sure what Frost has to add to the world. I don't think it's excitement, though. Stability and nostalgia seem to be his stock-in-trade, his popularity is not so surprising when one considers the rampant and on-going changes of the last 200 years. Roger On 2/9/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > i took your challenge. frost is boring. > > Michael Heffernan wrote: > > I have a hard time grasping how anyone could read Frost's North of Boston, all the way past the "Greatest Hits" to frequently unread masterpieces of dramatic blank verse, including "The Black Cottage," "A Servant to Servants," and "The Generations of Men," and come away convinced that Frost was a boring poet who had nothing to contribute to the art of poetry in the 20th century. > > > > Has anyone read "The Bonfire" lately (from Mountain Interval)? Do it out loud, and then tell me Frost is boring. > > > > Michael Heffernan > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From jforjames Fri Feb 9 10:29:33 2007 From: jforjames (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:29:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: References: <200702061700.l16H05t4015091@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <45CC0163.9020402@myuw.net> Message-ID: <8C91A763BE2B10B-1D40-96A5@mblk-r38.sysops.aol.com> Roger, I see a lot more existentialist angst in Frost than you do. Something that doesn't square well with 'nostalgia'...which is wide-eyed and naive. Frost wasn't the Norman Rockwell of American poetry. Some of the characters he sketched were a dying breed of Yankee farm people. Most weren't living an idyllic Lake District existence. It was a lot more hardscrabble and hardheaded than that. The mills of Lowell and Lawrence and Manchester (NH) had already changed New England forever and the rural folk that Frost portrayed knew modern world was like a great threshing machine right over the next hill, and when it came over that rise, as they knew it would (they weren't wishing it away or averting their gaze, dreaming of better days), everything was going to come down under its whirling blades. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: rog3r.day at gmail.com Sent: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge Frost - the American Wordsworth. I think the post-revolutionary Wordsworth has a lot in common with Frost: they both seem to recognise the challenges of the 19th and 20th century, then look away. Frost even more so than Wordsworth. Particularly in "Design": it's "challenges" are as moth-eaten as Bishop Paley's bones. So, besides being back-wards looking and ignoring most of the changes of the 19th and 20th century, I'm not sure what Frost has to add to the world. I don't think it's excitement, though. Stability and nostalgia seem to be his stock-in-trade, his popularity is not so surprising when one considers the rampant and on-going changes of the last 200 years. Roger ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Fri Feb 9 10:40:44 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:40:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <001201c74c60$aa056480$4ca93252@ANNY> Poem: "In the Middle of the Road" by Elizabeth Bishop, from The Complete Poems: 1927-1979. ? The Noonday Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) In the Middle of the Road In the middle of the road there was a stone there was a stone in the middle of the road there was a stone in the middle of the road there was a stone. Never should I forget this event in the life of my fatigued retinas. Never should I forget that in the middle of the road there was a stone there was a stone in the middle of the road in the middle of the road there was a stone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Feb 9 10:48:54 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:48:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge In-Reply-To: <8C91A763BE2B10B-1D40-96A5@mblk-r38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: One issue lurking here is that Frost's work did change notably as he got older. Most readers don't think he ever topped the early North of Boston, and as he got older his sententious side came out more and more. The last couple books are mostly dross. Of course, "early" is relative in this case, since RF was about 40 when he first broke into print, and it's probably unrealistic to expect pathbreaking, forward-looking work from very many poets in their 60s and beyond. For me Frost is also two poets--the amazing sonneteer & lyricist who could craft traditional lyrics as tight and memorable as anyone in his century; and the equally amazing but very different blank verse narrative poet, whose "poems of people" are really unsurpassed for their psychological penetration and strangeness. Though his characters are rural, such poems are anything but pastoral, as JimF suggests. As far as Frost being a nostalgist and one who ignores 19th & 20th century challenges, well, I just don't see it, unless one believes that such challenges can't be faced in iambics. . . . ----------------- On 2/9/07 9:29 AM, "jforjames at aol.com" wrote: > Roger, > I see a lot more existentialist angst in Frost than you do. > Something that doesn't square well with 'nostalgia'...which > is wide-eyed and naive. Frost wasn't the Norman Rockwell of > American poetry. > > Some of the characters he sketched were a dying breed of > Yankee farm people. Most weren't living an idyllic Lake District > existence. It was a lot more hardscrabble and hardheaded than that. > The mills of Lowell and Lawrence and Manchester (NH) had already > changed New England forever and the rural folk that Frost portrayed > knew modern world was like a great threshing machine right over the next > hill, and when it came over that rise, as they knew it would (they > weren't wishing it away or averting their gaze, dreaming of better > days), everything was going to come down under its whirling blades. > Finnegan > > -----Original Message----- > From: rog3r.day at gmail.com > Sent: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 6:20 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Frost on the edge > > Frost - the American Wordsworth. > > I think the post-revolutionary Wordsworth has a lot in common with > Frost: they both seem to recognise the challenges of the 19th and 20th > century, then look away. Frost even more so than Wordsworth. > Particularly in "Design": it's "challenges" are as moth-eaten as > Bishop Paley's bones. > > So, besides being back-wards looking and ignoring most of the changes > of the 19th and 20th century, I'm not sure what Frost has to add to > the world. I don't think it's excitement, though. Stability and > nostalgia seem to be his stock-in-trade, his popularity is not so > surprising when one considers the rampant and on-going changes of the > last 200 years. > > Roger > > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Feb 9 11:47:09 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:47:09 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost's "The Impulse" Message-ID: The final section of Frost's poem "The Hill Wife"" THE IMPULSE It was too lonely for her there, And too wild, And since there were but two of them, And no child, And work was little in the house, She was free, And followed where he furrowed field, Or felled tree. She rested on a log and tossed The fresh chips, With a song only to herself On her lips. And once she went to break a bough Of black alder. She strayed so far she scarcely heard When he called her? And didn?t answer?didn?t speak? Or return. She stood, and then she ran and hid In the fern. He never found her, though he looked Everywhere, And he asked at her mother?s house Was she there. Sudden and swift and light as that The ties gave, And he learned of finalities Besides the grave. --Robert Frost ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From grahamd Fri Feb 9 11:52:24 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:52:24 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Frost--The Vanishing Red Message-ID: The Vanishing Red HE is said to have been the last Red Man In Acton. And the Miller is said to have laughed? If you like to call such a sound a laugh. But he gave no one else a laugher?s license. For he turned suddenly grave as if to say, ?Whose business,?if I take it on myself, Whose business?but why talk round the barn?? When it?s just that I hold with getting a thing done with.? You can?t get back and see it as he saw it. It?s too long a story to go into now. You?d have to have been there and lived it. Then you wouldn?t have looked on it as just a matter Of who began it between the two races. Some guttural exclamation of surprise The Red Man gave in poking about the mill Over the great big thumping shuffling mill-stone Disgusted the Miller physically as coming >From one who had no right to be heard from. ?Come, John,? he said, ?you want to see the wheel pit?? He took him down below a cramping rafter, And showed him, through a manhole in the floor, The water in desperate straits like frantic fish, Salmon and sturgeon, lashing with their tails. Then he shut down the trap door with a ring in it That jangled even above the general noise, And came up stairs alone?and gave that laugh, And said something to a man with a meal-sack That the man with the meal-sack didn?t catch?then. Oh, yes, he showed John the wheel pit all right. --Robert Frost. Mountain Interval. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From ccooley Fri Feb 9 23:40:44 2007 From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 22:40:44 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Transtr=F6mer_?= In-Reply-To: References: <200612151452.kBFEqK8X027491@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Okay, I'm playing the game. The title, I notice, is Breathing Room (or Space) July. From this I gather that the poem takes place in July and that it has something to do with space or breathing or room to breathe... We shall see. (I'm playing the game, coincidentally, after 3 glasses of organic Merlot from Hectore at La Carpa-- a wine that ages very slowly even after it is opened and comes in a 4-liter bottle-- I believe wine is no longer the drink of poets... but I don't know what is. Any faults in the interpretation I lay upon Dionysius. I'd prefer to know what they were doing in the Eleusinian mystery cults, which seems much more relevant to me. And if I'd just done THAT, the interpretation would probably be flawless.) So "lying on his back" leaning, loafing [foul! -- rule 4 broken], breathing we assume, with room to breathe. Then the very odd: "he is also up there." But that's not difficult. He is in two places at once. Likely, he's "under tall trees" and simply looking up-- but looking up with such intensity that he's also up there. Or imagining himself up there. Or having burst the boundaries of his own skin... further evidence for this in: "He rills into thousands of twigs and branches..." Rills of course as a verb is weird. [Breaking rule 4 again: look in the Oxford American (the OED having died inside of my dead IBM laptop) for rill: "verb intrans. (of water) flow in or as in a rill." Okay. So he's flying or flowing up into the branches, and the flowing is splitting off getting smaller and smaller-- very well. "...is swayed back and forth..." so these rivulets are moving up in the air-- no problem. "As if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion" ... huh? Is that him flung up from the ground into the air? Yeah probably. "Slow" because that's how trees move in wind. I'm breaking rule 4 to infer wind from tree motion. But perhaps the motion is from a man climbing up there with a chainsaw... no, no evidence for that! "Standing by the jetties..." okay, suddenly by the water. Trees gone and flowed right down into the sea. Eyes squinting, narrowing or screwed up. Prefer MS's squinting. "Narrowing" is confusion of parallax with a change of distance between the eyes-- completely fallacious. And screwed up-- well, it's just not something someone is in polite society. "The docks ages sooner than men." An artifact of the poor web master typing furiously late at night to get the Transtromer translations up on the web before she eats at midnight, sleeps at 12:20am-- despite the latte at 10:30. Surely neither Transtorm or Ms. Swenson would (do or) say such a thing. Fulton and Bly have avoided the grammatical error, but the sheer effort reminds me of a dance between Gargantua and Pantagruel-- but that may be the wine. Men and docks both turn silver with age-- thereupon turns the metaphor. No? And wood turns silver in less than 50 years. A statement of fact, by way of metaphor. "Stones in their bellies" or "stomachs" or "boulders in their guts." Bly is consistently funniest. I think this is the pebbles stuck between the boards of the piers... what else? Which would preclude "boulders" unless the space between planks is larger than a man's waist, so that boulders would fit in. In that case, even Bly would fall through. "...blinding light rips ... through" or "beats right in" or "drives in" [in a yacht, perhaps? ...no]. "In" what? Well, remember, the guy is squinting. So maybe it rips into his eyes. Or into the pier. But anyway "across the waters..." "Sailing all day in an open boat" ... no problem here! "over the glittering bights". I remember bight meaning the gravitational curve in a rope or the inertial curve in a wave as it moves up sand. So glittering bights would seem to be waves out in the water... though not quite, therefore back to the dictionary. "A curve or recess in a coastline, river, or other..." but if it's a curve, how come Fulton translates the same thing as "straits"? Straits may not be straight but they're narrow and not necessarily curved. Bly calls 'em bays. So be it. Bright waterways. "he will fall fast asleep at last inside a blue lamp" Finally, we're reintroduced to the "he". But this he is in a boat, sleeping. The first was sleeping under trees, the second standing on a pier, the third now is lying in a boat. And we presume they all have "breathing room". Each is doing essentially nothing. The hard work of the poet. "a blue lamp" or "his blue lamp" -- the sky? Bright sun does light the sky's mantle like heat lights the coleman lantern mantle. "...islands... creep" or "crawl" like -- what is drawn to the lamp? "moths". Very well. "over the glass", "across the glass", "over the globe" -- water is glass, covers the globe (at least in the sea)... and is ripped by light, made to look shiny, glass. Okay, it is one guy or three? It could be 3 poses of one guy during July. Or a particular day and 3 different approaches to breathing. Just like the guy can lie on the ground and be in the tree-- it can be one guy in 3 places all at once, or 3 guys at the same time, brought into proximity only in the poet's imagination, or one guy at three different times. The poem gives permission to take all three perspectives. On Dec 15, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Let's see if we can make this an interesting discussion. Here are > the rules: 1. You must think, really think before you say > something; 2. As you read these 3 versions of a Transtr?mer poem, > you must actually pay attention to your own esthetic reactions; 3. > You must report what is your esthetic reaction to a particular > word, phrase or image; 4. You must not comment on what is NOT in > the poem, only what is in it; 5. You can only voice your own > esthetic reaction, and are strictly disallowed from making > political comments or any other comments other than A. your own > esthetic experience, or B. comments about your own esthetic > experience. 6. You are allowed to comment on the variation between > translations, knowing, but not caring, that these are not about > Transtr?mer, but are about the text actually in the new-po post > (the Object of Discussion); 7. these translations are the only > object of discussion; 8. The question "What's this guy do that's > special?" must be changed subtly to "What is my esthetic reaction > to what these translators say this guy does?" 9. In the process of > following the rules, your original question will be answered, but > not in a way to prove anything, since esthetic discussions never > prove anything. Proving something would be breaking rules #2,3,4, > and 5. Ready? > > Here are the texts: [note that the May Swenson translation appears > to have an error in line 6] > > Breathing Room: July > > Lying on his back under tall trees > he is also up there. He rills into thousands of twigs and branches, > is swayed back and forth, > as if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion. > > Standing down by the jetties he squints across the waters. > The docks ages sooner than men. > Made of splintered silver gray planks, and with stones in their > bellies. > The blinding light rips its way straight through. > > Sailing all day in an open boat > over the glittering bights, > he will fall asleep at last inside a blue lamp > while islands like great nocturnal moths creep over the glass. > > Translation by May Swenson > > Breathing Space July > > The man lying on his back under the high trees > is up there too. He rills out in thousandfold twigs, > sways to and fro, > sits in an ejector seat that releases in slow motion. > > The man down by the jetties narrows his eyes at the water. > The jetties grow old more quickly than people. > They have silver grey timber and stones in their stomachs. > The blinding light beats right in. > > The man traveling all day in an open boat > over the glittering straits > > Will sleep at last inside a blue lamp > while the islands creep like large moths across the glass. > > Translation by Robert Fulton > > Breathing Space July > > The man who lies on his back under huge trees > is also up in them. He branches out into thousands of tiny branches. > He sways back and forth, > he sits in a catapult chair that hurtles forward in slow motion. > > The man who stands down at the dock screws up his eyes against the > water. > Docks get older faster than men. > They have silver-gray posts and boulders in their gut. > The dazzling light drives straight in. > > The man who spends the whole day in an open boat > moving over the luminous bays > will fall asleep at last inside the shade of his blue lamp > as the islands crawl like huge moths over the globe. > > Translation by Robert Bly > > >> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:50:49 -0500 >> From: "Bob Grumman" >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Transtromer > > >>> It doesn't matter whether you've read a whole book. What matters >>> (if you >>> are interested in educating yourself and others about your esthetic >>> predilections) is that you make specific comments about a >>> specific poem. >> >> How about a specific question such as the one implied by my post, >> what's >> this guy do that's special? >> >> --Bob G. > From JforJames Sat Feb 10 17:24:20 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:24:20 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Poetry Project, Call for Poems Message-ID: Tupelo Press Poetry Project, Call for Poems The previous newsletter's email link has been fixed, and is now working brilliantly. Starting in March, Tupelo Press will host and publish an online poetry site, the Tupelo Press Poetry Project. Each month, we will offer four possible titles. All are invited to submit no more than one poem (per month), having any one of the four suggested titles (only). We will then select our 20-30 favorite responses and publish them on the Poetry Project site, which will have a link on our _homepage_ (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=xf6cp7bab.0.rzocnxbab.xzxilxbab.139&ts=S0224&p=https://www.tupelo press.org) . There are no restrictions on form, style, or anything else, except that your poem should be no longer than 50 lines, and in English. We want to see all strategies, from strictly formal to wildly experimental, and all the in-betweens. The deadline for submitting your poem to the inaugural (March) issue of the Tupelo Press Poetry Project is February 21st. For March, here are your four possible titles: * We Leave the Beaches for the Tourists, Mostly * You Were Born to be Mine, See, Why Even Fight It * Exposition of the Contents of a Cab * Snowman Please: * Submit by email attachment (Word) only. * No hard copy will be read. * Please include a short bio (three lines). * There is no fee. Send your submission to: Tupelo Press Poetry Project _Poetryproject at tupelopress.org_ (mailto:poetryproject at tupelopress.org) Please do not reply to this address, and please if at all possible, don?t send questions. You have all the information you need here, and we just do not have the staff to respond to questions. Thanks so much. Enjoy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 10 18:23:07 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:23:07 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] EOAGH, ISSUE #3: QUEERING LANGUAGE , for kari edwards (1954-2006) Message-ID: _http://chax.org/eoagh/issue3/issuethree.html_ (http://chax.org/eoagh/issue3/issuethree.html) EOAGH, ISSUE #3: QUEERING LANGUAGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 10 18:50:27 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:50:27 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Message-ID: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Feb 10 18:58:18 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:58:18 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Message-ID: Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 03:57:03 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:57:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: Message-ID: <002101c74dba$99729e70$26a33852@ANNY> Lovely! SIX YEARS OLD, that is incredible. A Happiest Birthday to All to the New Poetry List and to James Finnegan, the best of them all! cheers, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 06:15:15 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:15:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Susan Webster Schultz Message-ID: <003d01c74dcd$e7f53630$26a33852@ANNY> Dear friends--we at Tinfish Press are proud to announce publication of the following (which we spent hours today sewing and stamping): L A N G U A G E _ A S _ R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y by Leonard Schwartz . 2006 . $12 Design by Lian Litvin This hand-sewn chapbook contains three parts: 1) in which the Israel poet Aharon Shabtai offers witness. 2) in which a publishing vision emerges from the rich sources mingling in Jerusalem. 3) a verse essay on poetic form in America by Leonard Schwartz that argues responsibility is the ability to respond. Language as Responsibility is something of a departure for Tinfish Press, as its context is the Middle East, not the Pacific. But its author, who now lives in Washington State, argues forcefully for a poetics of publishing that crosses boundaries of language and difference (in this instance Arabic and Hebrew, Palestine and Israel). Such crossings fit Tinfish's philosophy, hence this beautiful chapbook. See http://tinfishpress.com/chapbooks.html for more details and to order copies. Tinfish books are also available through Small Press Distrubution, http://spdbooks.org Aloha, Susan Susan M. Schultz Tinfish Press -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 06:16:06 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:16:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] from today's the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <004401c74dce$06698990$26a33852@ANNY> Poem: "The Psychiatrist Says She's Severely Demented" by Bobbi Lurie, from Letter from the Lawn: Poems by Bobbi Lurie. ? CustomWords. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) The Psychiatrist Says She's Severely Demented But she's my mother. She lies in her bed, Hi Sweetie, she says. Hi Mom. Do you know my name? I can't wait for her answer, I'm Bobbi. Oh, so you found me again, she says. Her face and hair have the same gray sheen Like a black and white drawing smudged on the edges. The bedspread is hot pink, lime green. Her eyes, Such a distant blue, indifferent as the sky. I put my hand On her forehead. It is soft, and she resembles my real mother Who I have not spoken to in so many years. I want to talk to her as her eyes close. She is mumbling something, laughing to herself, All the sadness she ever had has fled. And when she opens her eyes again, she stares through me And her eyes well up with tears. And I stand there lost in her incoherence, Which feels almost exactly like love. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 11 06:40:54 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 06:40:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: c88.a2e3a64.32ffb443@aol.com Message-ID: <003701c74dd1$7e74b5b0$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) Aut-Oh, if it includes me, I'm not doing my job! But thanks for the mention, James--and for running the group so effectively. And now for another six years of fun and anguish all leading to enlightenment! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 08:30:13 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:30:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 6 Years Old References: c88.a2e3a64.32ffb443@aol.com <003701c74dd1$7e74b5b0$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007301c74de0$c2a3b470$26a33852@ANNY> I am taking the liberty of quoting without permission a passage from a private conversation I recently had with Richard Dillon: I respect Finnegan. ... He is very much his own person, and a very erudite and talented poet. This to say that I think we have been caught by the charismatic personality of the ListOwner, thus great and best wishes, Anny From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:40 PM The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) Aut-Oh, if it includes me, I'm not doing my job! But thanks for the mention, James--and for running the group so effectively. And now for another six years of fun and anguish all leading to enlightenment! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 11 08:41:13 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:41:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old References: <002101c74dba$99729e70$26a33852@ANNY> Message-ID: <008801c74de2$4bf95e90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Jim, you done it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:57 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Lovely! SIX YEARS OLD, that is incredible. A Happiest Birthday to All to the New Poetry List and to James Finnegan, the best of them all! cheers, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated background with a remark. Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested in subscribing....it's free, we like free: -- To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 09:26:47 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 09:26:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old In-Reply-To: <008801c74de2$4bf95e90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <002101c74dba$99729e70$26a33852@ANNY> <008801c74de2$4bf95e90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702110626m37668a55r5e601438bfcf0834@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Jim, for providing this forum. Jeff Newberry On 2/11/07, TheOldMole wrote: > > ? Jim, you done it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:57 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old > > > Lovely! SIX YEARS OLD, that is incredible. > A Happiest Birthday to All > to the New Poetry List > and to James Finnegan, the best of them all! > > cheers, Anny > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:58 AM > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old > > > Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... > > In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > JforJames at aol.com writes: > > The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really > appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: > David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going > for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. > > I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good > way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people > come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always > great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... > sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for > that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated > background with a remark. > > Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested > in subscribing....it's free, we like free: > -- > To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related > to contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, > essays, open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your > commentary. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 12:00:53 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:00:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years Message-ID: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all morning, and I started thinking of all the poems that use years as titles: Philip Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' "Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, 1939": these are just a few off the top of my head. I'm certain that I'm missing some obvious ones. I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work here. Are there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or somesuch? I don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY year in the 20th century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there are. Bob, are there any visual poems with years as titles? How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 11 12:01:01 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:01:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fenton Reviewed in the Times Message-ID: <004d01c74dfe$356a9d80$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> The English poet James Fenton has survived the specter of his own immense promise. Every possible temptation, disguised as encouragement, has been thrown in his path: the burdensome epithet ("heir to Auden" or "major British poet of his generation"), the sexy hype of a new coterie (the so-called "Martian" school), and even a turn on the throne, as the Oxford professor of poetry. In spite of the hoo-ha, Fenton remains an extraordinary poet with something original to disclose. The publication of his "Selected Poems" gives American readers an excuse to lay encomiums aside and discover Fenton for themselves. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/books/review/Metcalf.t.html?ref=books Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad Sun Feb 11 12:05:41 2007 From: tad (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:05:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005c01c74dfe$dc72ee20$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> First thing that comes my lowbrow mind is the BeeGees' "New York Mining Disaster 1941," which probably says something about me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all morning, and I started thinking of all the poems that use years as titles: Philip Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' "Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, 1939": these are just a few off the top of my head. I'm certain that I'm missing some obvious ones. I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work here. Are there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or somesuch? I don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY year in the 20th century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there are. Bob, are there any visual poems with years as titles? How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. Best, Jeff Newberry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:10:58 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:10:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Cavafy wrote at least one (I think more) poems with the title "Days of xxxx," employing years. And a number of later poets have picked up on that, and written their own "Days of..." poems. Now I need to probe my muddled mind to see if I can think of any actual examples! James Merrill has one, I think. . . . On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all > morning, and I started thinking of all the poems that use years as > titles: Philip Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef > Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' "Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, > 1939": these are just a few off the top of my head. I'm certain > that I'm missing some obvious ones. > > I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work > here. Are there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or > somesuch? I don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY > year in the 20th century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there > are. Bob, are there any visual poems with years as titles? > > How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. > > Best, > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:16:00 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:16:00 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Days of 1999 One unexceptional bright afternoon in August, coming from the rose garden secreted behind the rue Villehardouin, I thought, fleet, furtive, If I lived alone I could stay here and pushed the thought away as firmly and unlikely as Might rain later because I wanted just to choose and I had chosen, more than cobblestones and arbors, more than the benediction of new loaves' scent blown from the bakery, the benediction of the late white rose, more than the blank page of the cloudless sky, to honor choice, reflecting on it daily but even as the thought diminished on a wave of warm bread and the holiday banter of children with no homework to do a choice I never made was made for me in another mind, another country I thought I had some claim to, which I knew not at all, as that warm wave let me drift with no anticipating harbor left. Spring showers wash the hidden rose garden; an evening's bread is rising in an oven: the afternoon's word resonates alone as a sky, mother-and-fatherless in its gray and quotidian distress blurts the repeated questions of the rain. Marilyn Hacker Ploughshares Volume 28, Number 1 Spring 2002 On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:10 AM, David Graham wrote: > Cavafy wrote at least one (I think more) poems with the title "Days > of xxxx," employing years. And a number of later poets have picked > up on that, and written their own "Days of..." poems. > > Now I need to probe my muddled mind to see if I can think of any > actual examples! James Merrill has one, I think. . . . ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:19:39 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:19:39 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Kizer In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <037BC4C9-3826-4E46-8F04-9AC4222399CD@ripon.edu> Days of 1986 He was believed by his peers to be an important poet, But his erotic obsessions, condemned and strictly forbidden, Compromised his standing, and led to his ruin. The objects of his attention grew younger and younger. Over sixty, and a father many times over, He tried to corrupt the sons of his dearest friends; He pressed on them drink and drugs, And of course he was caught and publicly shamed. Was his death a suicide? No one is sure. But that's not the whole story; it's too sordid to tell. Besides, the memory of his poems deserves better. Though we were unable to look at them for a time, His poems survive his death. There he appears as his finest self: Attractive, scholarly, dedicated to love. At last we can read him again, putting aside The brute facts of his outer life, And rejoice at the inner voice, so lofty and pure. --Carolyn Kizer ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:22:33 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:22:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Stern In-Reply-To: <037BC4C9-3826-4E46-8F04-9AC4222399CD@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> <037BC4C9-3826-4E46-8F04-9AC4222399CD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <57120FAE-2208-405C-B19B-91E15A93039B@ripon.edu> Days of 1978 This is the only thing that clarifies my life, this beautiful old living room with the pink walls and the mohair sofa. I walk out every night singing a little song from Gus Williams or W.C. Handy. I throw my yellow scarf around my neck and pull my cap down over my eyes. Even here I am dressed up, walking through the light flakes and the ice puddles. --Tonight I will think about Cavafy and the way he wept on his satin pillow, remembering the days of 1903. I will compare my life to his: the sorrows of Alexandria, the lights on the river; the dead kings returning to Syria, the soap in my bath. --Later I will lie on my own pillow with the window open and the blinds up, weeping a little myself at the thick blankets and the smoking candles and the stack of books, a new sweetness and clarity beginning to monopolize my own memory. -- Gerald Stern. *This Time: New and Selected Poems* (W.W. Norton). ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan Sun Feb 11 12:39:54 2007 From: wwmorgan (Bill Morgan) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:39:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.co m> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20070211113633.066ed110@mail.ilstu.edu> Hardy has a few. My favorite is "Christmas: 1924," a pungent four-liner: 'Peace upon earth!' was said. We sing it, And pay a million priests to bring it. After two thousand years of mass We've got as far as poison-gas. 1924 Bill Morgan At 11:00 AM 2/11/2007, you wrote: >I've been writing an essay about Philip Larkin's "MCMXIV" all morning, and >I started thinking of all the poems that use years as titles: Philip >Levine's "1933," Weldon Kees' "1926," Yusef Komunyakaa's "1938," Yeats' >"Easter 1916," Auden's "September 1, 1939": these are just a few off the >top of my head. I'm certain that I'm missing some obvious ones. > >I started wondering if there were an anthology project at work here. Are >there enough poems for a "The 20th Century in Verse" or somesuch? I >don't know if there is a poem with the title of EVERY year in the 20th >century, but I wonder how many "year poems" there are. Bob, are there any >visual poems with years as titles? > >How many can you think of? Extra points for posting the poem. > >Best, > >Jeff Newberry > >-- >"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." >?William Faulkner, Light in August > > >http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:46:58 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:46:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Frost In-Reply-To: <6.0.2.0.2.20070211113633.066ed110@mail.ilstu.edu> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> <6.0.2.0.2.20070211113633.066ed110@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: And here's Frost's epigram. Similar subject. Oh, I forgot: Frost's a pastoralist; he couldn't have written a Hiroshima poem, could he? . . . U.S. 1946. King's X Having invented a new Holocaust, And been the first with it to win a war, How they make haste to cry with fingers crossed, King's X--no fairs to use it any more! --Robert Frost. Steeple Bush. On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Bill Morgan wrote: > Hardy has a few. My favorite is "Christmas: 1924," a pungent four- > liner: > > 'Peace upon earth!' was said. We sing it, > And pay a million priests to bring it. > After two thousand years of mass > We've got as far as poison-gas. > > 1924 > > > Bill Morgan ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 11 12:49:47 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:49:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: 731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <01a001c74e05$0756cac0$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> By coincidence, Jeff, less than a week ago I posted one of my own visual poems with a year in its title at my blog. You can see it here: http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/blog01100.html. As for poems by other visual poets with years in their titles, my memory for titles is terrible, so I can't think of any offhand. I would be surprised if there weren't a fair number of them, though. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 12:52:47 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:52:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Graham Message-ID: <2CC8115D-EC78-46AB-8FFB-AEBD036421E4@ripon.edu> And I'm afraid I'm guilty of a few myself. Here's one I did in imitation of/homage to Weldon Kees, when I realized that he was 12 years old in his poem "1926." Wrote a poem about the year I was 12. 1965 --after Weldon Kees, "1926" Crickets in thickening air, midsummer, no dream arriving better than my castaway novel. Twelve years old. A far fire siren sets neighborhood dogs howling. No stars. I glimpse TV blue flickering on the Baxters' windows and know what show. Know nothing of Roger Baxter dead in Da Nang or my own lottery number to come. Too hot a night to peer into the future. Somewhere a record player rejoices, *Ticket to Ride* and splashy laughter. Car brakes squeal. I turn another page. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 13:01:19 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:01:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ed Byrne's blog Message-ID: From sometime NewPo contributor Ed Byrne, editor of the fine *Valparaiso Poetry Review,* which I also recommend to anyone who's not run across it: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr. Ed's blog is incredibly meaty, with many longish reviews of new books already posted. I've no idea how he has found the time for this. . . . Anyway, his note: "I have initiated an editor's blog to complement the semiannual publication of VPR. The editor's blog has just begun and will contain ongoing personal commentary about notable recent books of poetry. Since VPR receives many more review copies of new books than can possibly be examined within the journal, the complementary blog is intended to allow for ongoing further discussion and promotion of recommended books. I invite you to check out this new venue, and I encourage you to pass the word along to other lovers of contemporary poetry. The blog is located at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Thank you, again, for your continuing support of VPR. Best wishes, Ed -------------------------------------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 13:05:36 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:05:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f301c74e07$3b56a460$26a33852@ANNY> MCMXIV* By Philip Larkin Those long uneven lines Standing as patiently As if they were stretched outside The Oval or Villa Park, The crowns of hats, the sun On moustached archaic faces Grinning as if it were all An august bank Holiday lark; And the shut shops, the bleached, Established names on the sunblinds, The farthings and sovereigns, And dark-clothed children at play Called after kings and queens, The tin advertisements For cocoa and twist, and the pubs Wide ope all day; And the countryside not caring: The place-names all hazed over With flowering grasses, and fields Shadowing Domesday lines Under what?s restless silence; The differently-dressed servants With tiny rooms in huge houses, The dust behind limousines; Never such innocence, Never before or since, As changed itself to past Without a word ? the men Leaving the gardens tidy, The thousands of marriages Lasting a little while longer Never such innocence again. a.. 1914 - In roman numerals, as incised on stone memorials to the dead of World War I b.. The Oval or Villa Park ? London cricket ground and Birmingham football ground c.. The farthings and sovereigns ? At that time, the least valuable and the most valuable British coins, respectively d.. Shadowing Domesday lines ? The still visible boundaries of medieval farmers? long and narrow plots, ownership of which is recorded in William the Conqueror?s Domesday Book (1085-86) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 13:13:03 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:13:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00fd01c74e08$468b55f0$26a33852@ANNY> MARGARET WALKER Since 1619 How many years since 1619 have I been singing Spirituals? How long have I been praising God and shouting hallelujahs? How long have I been hated and hating? How long have I been living in hell for heaven? When will I see my brother?s face wearing another color? When will I be ready to die in a honest fight? When will I be conscious of the struggle ? nor to do or die? When will these scales fall away from my eyes? What will I say when days of wrath descend When the money-gods take all my life away; When the death knell sounds And peace is a flag of far-flung blood and filth? When will I understand the cheated and the cheaters; Their paltry pittances and cold concessions to my pride? When will I burst from my kennel an angry mongrel, Lean and hungry and tired of my dry bones and years? Notes: Since 1619 ? The year that the first African slaves arrived in Jamestown, Virginia, abroad a Dutch frigate When will these scales fall away from my eyes? ? The account of Saul?s conversion in Acts 9.18: ?And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized?. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 13:26:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:26:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010701c74e0a$1d07abf0$26a33852@ANNY> EDMUND BLUNDEN 1916 seen from 1921 Tired with dull grief, grown old before my day, I sit in solitude and only hear Long silent laughters, murmurings of dismay, The lost intensities of hope and fear; In those old marshes yet the rifles lie, On the thin breastwork flutter the grey rags, The very books I read are there ? and I Dead as the men I loved, wait while life drags Its wounded length from those sad streets of war Into green places here, that were my own; But now what once was mine is mine no more, I seek such neighbours here and I find none. With such strong gentleness and tireless will Those ruined houses seared themselves in me, Passionate I look for their dumb story still, And the charred stub outspeaks the living tree. I rise up at the singing of a bird And scarcely knowing slink along the lane, I dare not give a soul a look or word Where all have homes and none?s at home in vain: Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, The self-sown wheat around was like a flood, In the hot path the lizard lolled time out, The saints in broken shrines were bright as blood. Sweet Mary?s shrine between the sycamores! There we would go, my friend of friends and I, And snatch long moments from the grudging wars, Whose dark made light intense to see them by. Shrewd bit the morning fog, the whining shots Spun from the wrangling wire; then in warm swoon The sun hushed all but the cool orchard plots, We crept in the tall grass and slept till noon. Notes: Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, - Earthwork defensive position enclosed on all sides -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Feb 11 13:42:03 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:42:03 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <010701c74e0a$1d07abf0$26a33852@ANNY> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> <010701c74e0a$1d07abf0$26a33852@ANNY> Message-ID: Paris, October 1936 From all of this I am the only one who leaves. From this bench I go away, from my pants, from my great situation, from my actions, from my number split side to side, from all of this I am the only one who leaves. From the Champs Elys?es or as the strange alley of the Moon makes a turn, my death goes away, my cradle leaves, and, surrounded by people, alone, cut loose, my human resemblance turns around and dispatches its shadows one by one. And I move away from everything, since everything remains to create my alibi: my shoe, its eyelet, as well as its mud and even the bend in the elbow of my own buttoned shirt. Cesar Vallejo Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 11, 2007, at 12:26 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > EDMUND BLUNDEN > 1916 seen from 1921 > > Tired with dull grief, grown old before my day, > I sit in solitude and only hear > Long silent laughters, murmurings of dismay, > The lost intensities of hope and fear; > In those old marshes yet the rifles lie, > On the thin breastwork flutter the grey rags, > The very books I read are there ? and I > Dead as the men I loved, wait while life drags > > Its wounded length from those sad streets of war > Into green places here, that were my own; > But now what once was mine is mine no more, > I seek such neighbours here and I find none. > With such strong gentleness and tireless will > Those ruined houses seared themselves in me, > Passionate I look for their dumb story still, > And the charred stub outspeaks the living tree. > > I rise up at the singing of a bird > And scarcely knowing slink along the lane, > I dare not give a soul a look or word > Where all have homes and none?s at home in vain: > Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, > The self-sown wheat around was like a flood, > In the hot path the lizard lolled time out, > The saints in broken shrines were bright as blood. > > Sweet Mary?s shrine between the sycamores! > There we would go, my friend of friends and I, > And snatch long moments from the grudging wars, > Whose dark made light intense to see them by. > Shrewd bit the morning fog, the whining shots > Spun from the wrangling wire; then in warm swoon > The sun hushed all but the cool orchard plots, > We crept in the tall grass and slept till noon. > > > Notes: > Deep red the rose burned in the grim redoubt, - Earthwork defensive > position enclosed on all sides > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From hawkbrwn Sun Feb 11 14:48:03 2007 From: hawkbrwn (Elaine Brown) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:48:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry List is 5 Years Old In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Whoo hoo! Congrats! On 2/10/07 6:58 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > Bad math...we're 6 years old...born in 2-10-2001... > > In a message dated 2/10/2007 6:50:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > JforJames at aol.com writes: >> >> The NewPoetry List turns 5 this year. I really >> >> appreciate the help of the contributing correspondents: >> >> David, Hal, Jim C, Anny, Paul (MIA of late), Jeff (going >> >> for his PhD)...and all the other frequent contributors. >> >> >> >> I thank you for all for jumping in and mixing it up, in a good >> >> way. (Bob, that means you too.) This list goes on, people >> >> come and go. The door is open. Pass the word on...it's always >> >> great to see a new person join and enter our fitful conversations... >> >> sometimes it takes of few posts before dialog ensues...or, for >> >> that matter, it's great to have a lurker emerge from the pixelated >> >> background with a remark. >> >> >> >> Anyway, pass this post on to anyone you think might be interested >> >> in subscribing....it's free, we like free: >> >> -- >> >> To Subscribe to NewPoetry, go to? >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> The NewPoetry List has two purposes: information and discussion related to >> contemporary poetry. We welcome publication announcements, reviews, essays, >> open letters, news items, quotes, and, of course, poems and your commentary. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Sun Feb 11 14:49:15 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:49:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702110900v603df078xe526ab9f19e052db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60702111149h48e83d6ct78262654609ef081@mail.gmail.com> >From the Island, 1860 1 One day as she rinsed clothes from the jetty the chill of the strait rose through her arms into her life. Her tears froze into a pair of glasses. The island raised itself in the grass and the banner of Baltic herring swayed in the depths. 2 And the swarm of smallpox caught up with him clustered onto his face. He lies and stares at the ceiling. What plying of oars up the silence. The moment's eternally running stain the moment's eternally bleeding point. - Tomas Transtromer, _The Sad Gondola_, trans. Robin Fulton ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 14:50:19 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:50:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ed Byrne's blog References: Message-ID: <018d01c74e15$dc917b30$26a33852@ANNY> I don't know either how he can make it, thanks for sending the link over. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Ed Byrne's blog From sometime NewPo contributor Ed Byrne, editor of the fine *Valparaiso Poetry Review,* which I also recommend to anyone who's not run across it: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr. Ed's blog is incredibly meaty, with many longish reviews of new books already posted. I've no idea how he has found the time for this. . . . Anyway, his note: "I have initiated an editor's blog to complement the semiannual publication of VPR. The editor's blog has just begun and will contain ongoing personal commentary about notable recent books of poetry. Since VPR receives many more review copies of new books than can possibly be examined within the journal, the complementary blog is intended to allow for ongoing further discussion and promotion of recommended books. I invite you to check out this new venue, and I encourage you to pass the word along to other lovers of contemporary poetry. The blog is located at the following: http://edwardbyrne.blogspot.com/ Thank you, again, for your continuing support of VPR. Best wishes, Ed -------------------------------------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer Sun Feb 11 15:02:19 2007 From: mheffer (Michael Heffernan) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 14:02:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years Message-ID: Off the top of me head: England in 1819 (Shelley) September 1913 (Yeats) Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen (Yeats) Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931 (Yeats) It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand (Frost) Mozart, 1935 (Stevens) And here is an odd little piece by Thomas Hardy that I've always loved, with the most wonderfully loopy last line: 1967 In five-score summers! All new eyes, New minds, new modes, new fools, new wise; New woes to weep, new joys to prize; With nothing left of me and you In that live century's vivid view Beyond a pinch of dust or two; A century which, if not sublime, Will show, I doubt not, at its prime, A scope above this blinkered time. - Yet what to me how far above? For I would only ask thereof That thy worm should be my worm, Love! (1867) Michael Heffernan From anny.ballardini Sun Feb 11 15:50:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:50:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1966 Message-ID: <01bc01c74e1e$3b5af2b0$26a33852@ANNY> for the occasion I gave a date to this short pOm just put together: 1966 the black houses of the small villages in Italy most fearful at night used to growl and crouch hiss and screech with holes and eyes in most unseen sites they talked of hell of poisoned fruits of sins of those who were damned they've painted them white now enlarged attached views screened TV's show gluing wishes set nets to catch they anyhow remain the black fearful houses with burning deeds ready to grasp hell I was first sent to Italy from New York when I was ten to my grandparents' (on my mother's side) and a spinster aunt -there were trips before but we were together - this time I was on my own. That is what I saw, and this is what I see. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 11 17:56:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:56:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fenton considered Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/books/review/Metcalf.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogi n_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/books/review/Metcalf.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) Informal Menace By STEPHEN METCALF Published: February 11, 2007 Every poet strikes his or her own balance between innocence and experience, and that balance is easily lost. If lost to experience, the poet gets lost along with it: to feline self-regard, to the sly messaging of the in-group. The danger to an English poet is probably greater than to an American counterpart. There the apparatus of public acclaim sits, spring-loaded and ready to descend upon the promising young talent. This inevitably alters the way the promising young talent thinks and feels and writes. Maybe it is preferable, when young, to be stranded amid philistines than dandled by old toadies. The English poet James Fenton has survived the specter of his own immense promise. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 18:02:32 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:02:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> Okay, after one day of taking suggestions, I've posted what I've got so far below. Please continue to send me (on or off-list) poems that you think of. This may bloom into a real anthology project for me (one day). I don't have any of the dates when these poems were actually written--I probably should. I'll have to do some research. Thanks to everyone who has posted a poem. I much appreciate it. Best, Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) 1970-1979 "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 18:06:54 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:06:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> I Go Back to May 1937 I see them standing at the formal gates of their colleges, I see my father strolling out under the ochre sandstone arch, the red tiles glinting like bent plates of blood behind his head, I see my mother with a few light books at her hip standing at the pillar made of tiny bricks with the wrought-iron gate still open behind her, its sword-tips black in the May air, they are about to graduate, they are about to get married, they are kids, they are dumb, all they know is they are innocent, they would never hurt anybody. I want to go up to them and say Stop, don't do it--she's the wrong woman, he's the wrong man, you are going to do things you cannot imagine you would ever do, you are going to do bad things to children, you are going to suffer in ways you never heard of, you are going to want to die. I want to go up to them there in the late May sunlight and say it, her hungry pretty blank face turning to me, her pitiful beautiful untouched body, his arrogant handsome blind face turning to me, his pitiful beautiful untouched body, but I don't do it. I want to live. I take them up like the male and female paper dolls and bang them together at the hips like chips of flint as if to strike sparks from them, I say Do what you are going to do, and I will tell about it. --Sharon Olds (from The Gold Cell) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Sun Feb 11 18:12:02 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:12:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> Thanks David, Jeff On 2/11/07, David Graham wrote: > > *I Go Back to May 1937 * > > I see them standing at the formal gates of their colleges, > I see my father strolling out > under the ochre sandstone arch, the > red tiles glinting like bent > plates of blood behind his head, I > see my mother with a few light books at her hip > standing at the pillar made of tiny bricks with the > wrought-iron gate still open behind her, its > sword-tips black in the May air, > they are about to graduate, they are about to get married, > they are kids, they are dumb, all they know is they are > innocent, they would never hurt anybody. > I want to go up to them and say Stop, > don't do it--she's the wrong woman, > he's the wrong man, you are going to do things > you cannot imagine you would ever do, > you are going to do bad things to children, > you are going to suffer in ways you never heard of, > you are going to want to die. I want to go > up to them there in the late May sunlight and say it, > her hungry pretty blank face turning to me, > her pitiful beautiful untouched body, > his arrogant handsome blind face turning to me, > his pitiful beautiful untouched body, > but I don't do it. I want to live. I > take them up like the male and female > paper dolls and bang them together > at the hips like chips of flint as if to > strike sparks from them, I say > Do what you are going to do, and I will tell about it. > > > --Sharon Olds (from The Gold Cell) > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 18:25:11 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:25:11 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> I don't seem to have them at my fingertips, but Marianne Boruch has a # of poems with dates in the title. My favorite is "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970." She's also got one just called "1957," and one on the Berlin Wall that I think has the date in it. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Sun Feb 11 18:58:52 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:58:52 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Here's one of mine, Jeff: 1969 For Ty A dim-lit, smoky bar. Your twenty-first Birthday has brought a golden Benrus watch, A marriage, a degree, a double Scotch-- None of which will quite satisfy your thirst. It's after one. The pianist is playing Procul Harum's "A Whiter Shade of Pale." You scuff your side-zip boots along the rail And neither think of leaving nor of staying. Why bring it back again? Surely you know Your future guns his engine at the door, And soon enough he'll steer an exit for A suburb where you have no wish to go. Why bring it back? Because you want me to. Because you want to light your cigarette, Clutching a scene which you cannot forget Where everything you gaze upon is new. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sun Feb 11 19:50:50 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:50:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Don't have the text typed, but here's another... "1953," by Jack Gilbert, THE GREAT FIRES, Knopf, 1994 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Sun Feb 11 20:00:30 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:00:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> Jeffrey McDaniel has some 1977, 1978 or so I think in his first book... Chris On Feb 11, 2007, at 3:25 PM, David Graham wrote: > I don't seem to have them at my fingertips, but Marianne Boruch has > a # of poems with dates in the title. My favorite is "Vietnam > Birthday Lottery, 1970." She's also got one just called "1957," > and one on the Berlin Wall that I think has the date in it. > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Sun Feb 11 20:09:53 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:09:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com><20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu><731bb17 a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com><5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> 6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net Message-ID: <024201c74e42$824ef850$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> It'll be amusing to find out what the most popular year for poets to use in titles is. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Sun Feb 11 20:31:52 2007 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:31:52 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <024201c74e42$824ef850$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com><20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu><731bb17 a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com><5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> 6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net <024201c74e42$824ef850$b7fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <0DDF0070-F27F-4C8D-BDB4-E4CF2D0EDBDF@earthlink.net> & the most popular year interval between date of composition and date of 'subject' or 'aura'--- Like the difference between a movie released in 1977 that takes place in 1947 and a movie released in 2007 that takes place in 1947 (sorry, but I saw one recently and i got me thinking about year-dates are often used as reductive little banners, captions or boxes in which the characters of a 'period piece' fit-- how it seems like this weird attempt at another kind of segregation between 'the ages' So 1980 in many ways can be a bogey-man for me! (Boo! Or as Gil Scott Heron put it in his (why not call it a poem?) song lyric from 1979--- "it's 1980 and there ain't no way back to 1975 much less 1969 it's 1980 and there ain't nobody ask me no time lately how we gonna open the door for 1984...." what year are you IN now? (must choose at least 3....) public time, private time....LIKE wordsworth's 1805 PRELUDE or the 1855 LEAVES OF GRASS (those dates might as well be the TITLE of the poem the way it's treated TALKING HEADS'77 is no more of a true title than SEX PISTOLS'77 ah the shell game of fashion in a maddening (Hyusmansesque) pallor (parlor) oh, and pathos.... the time in the composition, continuous peasant 2002, by any other name, would smell as nasal On Feb 11, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > It'll be amusing to find out what the most popular year for poets > to use in titles is. > > --Bob > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 20:46:56 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:46:56 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Feb 11, 2007, at 7:00 PM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Jeffrey McDaniel has some 1977, 1978 or so I think in his first > book... > > Chris > ------------ Yes, he does. Here's 1976. I've also seen 1975 and 1977. . . . 1976 The third grade teacher says: no homework if this know-it-all can produce a future. I can't find one in my knapsack. Where is it?, she asks. Did you leave it at home with your mother? Rodents of laughter scurry down the aisles. She uses a finger to punctuate my chest. Actually, my future's in a different time zone. It ran off to Hollywood at an early age. Hmpph! She tapes a sign to my desk: futureless know-it-all and asks if I'm satisfied. I'm not. I never will be. During a lesson on natural disaster, her heart beats her to death. I inform the class: she swallowed an earthquake, and deposit the futureless know-it-all sign in her hand. I go outside, clutching only the present, and move like time towards an open space. Jeffrey McDaniel ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Feb 11 22:16:41 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:16:41 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Chas Wright In-Reply-To: References: <731bb17a0702111502r79bfb5actaf369e2f0da2706f@mail.gmail.com> <20349139-BABE-4226-BCA5-74D5B1B83A49@ripon.edu> <731bb17a0702111512s45652c02gc54585d782422fa4@mail.gmail.com> <5A4C420E-5B4D-4BB8-A3AB-1A50B7F0A1D7@ripon.edu> <6717953D-3A8E-412A-8A49-BF147955DFA6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: One more, then I'm done for today! This one's an update of the Hardy ("1967") that we saw earlier. 2035 will be the centenary of Charles Wright's birth. Self-Portrait in 2035 The root becomes him, the road ruts That are sift and grain in the powderlight Recast him, sink bone in him, Blanket and creep up, fine, fine: Worm-waste and pillow tick; hair Prickly and dust-dangled, his arms and black shoes Unlinked and laceless, his face false In the wood-rot, and past pause . . . Darkness, erase these lines, forget these words. Spider recite his one sin. --Charles Wright. China Trace. Wesleyan UP, 1977. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mheffer Sun Feb 11 23:01:45 2007 From: mheffer (Michael Heffernan) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:01:45 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Years/Frost's "Hiroshima Poem" Message-ID: In re: David Graham's ironic comment about Frost's "U.S. 1946 King's X" ("Oh, I forgot, Frost's a pastoralist; he couldn't have written a Hiroshima poem, could he?"): Actually, I have always thought "Directive" (in the same book, Steeple Bush) was Frost's great poem about nuclear war?i.e., "a Hiroshima (& Nagasaki) poem." The central hint is in the reference to how "two village cultures faded / Into each other. Both of them are lost." This is one of the places where "(a poem) begins to be ulterior," as Frost suggests in "On Taking Poetry." [I owe this insight to Peter Stanlis's elucidation of "The Black Cottage," in Caxtonian, January 2002.] Sudden unannounced turns toward ulteriority are virtually a Frost trademark?some of them blatant, like the bees in the wall at the end of "The Black Cottage," or when, in "The Bonfire," the horror of aerial warfare in World War I suddenly emerges as the poem's terrible irresistible final surprise. "Directive," by contrast, is a great deal more evasive, in its treatment of what is usually read as a spiritual journey to a place of desolation and renewal: "Here are your waters and your watering place. / Drink and be whole again beyond confusion." The poem is definitely shadowed, from the outset, by "all this now too much for us." Its first appearance in the Winter 1946 issue of VQR, along with other pieces of verse and prose referencing the events of the previous August, is more than coincidental?as is its position in Steeple Bush (1947), where "U.S. 1946 King's X" follows a sonnet called "Bursting Rapture," with its reference to "a certain bomb" as the "mounting ecstasy ... too exquisite to bear" that "will find relief in one burst." Frost is seldom accorded such utter contemporaneity, and seldomer acknowledged to have noticed what certain of our more extreme religionists, even then, might have been expecting from American warmaking options. Such a reading seems far-fetched, until one leaves off rubbing one's eyes. What, indeed, could that quaint old pastoralist have been contemplating? Michael Heffernan From opus40-01 Mon Feb 12 00:47:10 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:47:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 1966 Message-ID: <3730.1171259230@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Mon Feb 12 06:25:42 2007 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 06:25:42 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_Re:_Transtr=F6mer_?= References: <200612151452.kBFEqK8X027491@wiz.cath.vt.edu> C035691A-5A84-473E-9783-0DB5C57C5897@overdomain.com Message-ID: <003701c74e98$8a181ca0$55fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Seems to me you gave a plausible paraphrase but nothing more, Crisman. What happens in the poem that's special? You never said. --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crisman Cooley" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Transtr?mer > Okay, I'm playing the game. The title, I notice, is Breathing Room (or > Space) July. From this I gather that the poem takes place in July and > that it has something to do with space or breathing or room to breathe... > We shall see. (I'm playing the game, coincidentally, after 3 glasses of > organic Merlot from Hectore at La Carpa-- a wine that ages very slowly > even after it is opened and comes in a 4-liter bottle-- I believe wine is > no longer the drink of poets... but I don't know what is. Any faults in > the interpretation I lay upon Dionysius. I'd prefer to know what they > were doing in the Eleusinian mystery cults, which seems much more > relevant to me. And if I'd just done THAT, the interpretation would > probably be flawless.) So "lying on his back" leaning, loafing > [foul! -- rule 4 broken], breathing we assume, with room to breathe. > Then the very odd: "he is also up there." But that's not difficult. He > is in two places at once. Likely, he's "under tall trees" and simply > looking up-- but looking up with such intensity that he's also up there. > Or imagining himself up there. Or having burst the boundaries of his own > skin... further evidence for this in: "He rills into thousands of twigs > and branches..." Rills of course as a verb is weird. [Breaking rule 4 > again: look in the Oxford American (the OED having died inside of my dead > IBM laptop) for rill: "verb intrans. (of water) flow in or as in a rill." > Okay. So he's flying or flowing up into the branches, and the flowing is > splitting off getting smaller and smaller-- very well. "...is swayed > back and forth..." so these rivulets are moving up in the air-- no > problem. "As if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion" ... huh? Is > that him flung up from the ground into the air? Yeah probably. "Slow" > because that's how trees move in wind. I'm breaking rule 4 to infer wind > from tree motion. But perhaps the motion is from a man climbing up there > with a chainsaw... no, no evidence for that! > > "Standing by the jetties..." okay, suddenly by the water. Trees gone > and flowed right down into the sea. Eyes squinting, narrowing or screwed > up. Prefer MS's squinting. "Narrowing" is confusion of parallax with a > change of distance between the eyes-- completely fallacious. And screwed > up-- well, it's just not something someone is in polite society. "The > docks ages sooner than men." An artifact of the poor web master typing > furiously late at night to get the Transtromer translations up on the web > before she eats at midnight, sleeps at 12:20am-- despite the latte at > 10:30. Surely neither Transtorm or Ms. Swenson would (do or) say such a > thing. Fulton and Bly have avoided the grammatical error, but the sheer > effort reminds me of a dance between Gargantua and Pantagruel-- but that > may be the wine. Men and docks both turn silver with age-- thereupon > turns the metaphor. No? And wood turns silver in less than 50 years. A > statement of fact, by way of metaphor. "Stones in their bellies" or > "stomachs" or "boulders in their guts." Bly is consistently funniest. I > think this is the pebbles stuck between the boards of the piers... what > else? Which would preclude "boulders" unless the space between planks is > larger than a man's waist, so that boulders would fit in. In that case, > even Bly would fall through. "...blinding light rips ... through" or > "beats right in" or "drives in" [in a yacht, perhaps? ...no]. "In" > what? Well, remember, the guy is squinting. So maybe it rips into his > eyes. Or into the pier. But anyway "across the waters..." > > "Sailing all day in an open boat" ... no problem here! "over the > glittering bights". I remember bight meaning the gravitational curve in > a rope or the inertial curve in a wave as it moves up sand. So > glittering bights would seem to be waves out in the water... though not > quite, therefore back to the dictionary. "A curve or recess in a > coastline, river, or other..." but if it's a curve, how come Fulton > translates the same thing as "straits"? Straits may not be straight but > they're narrow and not necessarily curved. Bly calls 'em bays. So be > it. Bright waterways. "he will fall fast asleep at last inside a blue > lamp" Finally, we're reintroduced to the "he". But this he is in a > boat, sleeping. The first was sleeping under trees, the second standing > on a pier, the third now is lying in a boat. And we presume they all > have "breathing room". Each is doing essentially nothing. The hard work > of the poet. "a blue lamp" or "his blue lamp" -- the sky? Bright sun > does light the sky's mantle like heat lights the coleman lantern mantle. > "...islands... creep" or "crawl" like -- what is drawn to the lamp? > "moths". Very well. "over the glass", "across the glass", "over the > globe" -- water is glass, covers the globe (at least in the sea)... and > is ripped by light, made to look shiny, glass. > > Okay, it is one guy or three? It could be 3 poses of one guy during > July. Or a particular day and 3 different approaches to breathing. Just > like the guy can lie on the ground and be in the tree-- it can be one guy > in 3 places all at once, or 3 guys at the same time, brought into > proximity only in the poet's imagination, or one guy at three different > times. The poem gives permission to take all three perspectives. > > On Dec 15, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Crisman Cooley wrote: > >> Let's see if we can make this an interesting discussion. Here are the >> rules: 1. You must think, really think before you say something; 2. As >> you read these 3 versions of a Transtr?mer poem, you must actually pay >> attention to your own esthetic reactions; 3. You must report what is >> your esthetic reaction to a particular word, phrase or image; 4. You >> must not comment on what is NOT in the poem, only what is in it; 5. You >> can only voice your own esthetic reaction, and are strictly disallowed >> from making political comments or any other comments other than A. your >> own esthetic experience, or B. comments about your own esthetic >> experience. 6. You are allowed to comment on the variation between >> translations, knowing, but not caring, that these are not about >> Transtr?mer, but are about the text actually in the new-po post (the >> Object of Discussion); 7. these translations are the only object of >> discussion; 8. The question "What's this guy do that's special?" must be >> changed subtly to "What is my esthetic reaction to what these >> translators say this guy does?" 9. In the process of following the >> rules, your original question will be answered, but not in a way to >> prove anything, since esthetic discussions never prove anything. >> Proving something would be breaking rules #2,3,4, and 5. Ready? >> >> Here are the texts: [note that the May Swenson translation appears to >> have an error in line 6] >> >> Breathing Room: July >> >> Lying on his back under tall trees >> he is also up there. He rills into thousands of twigs and branches, >> is swayed back and forth, >> as if in a catapult seat outflung in slow motion. >> >> Standing down by the jetties he squints across the waters. >> The docks ages sooner than men. >> Made of splintered silver gray planks, and with stones in their >> bellies. >> The blinding light rips its way straight through. >> >> Sailing all day in an open boat >> over the glittering bights, >> he will fall asleep at last inside a blue lamp >> while islands like great nocturnal moths creep over the glass. >> >> Translation by May Swenson >> >> Breathing Space July >> >> The man lying on his back under the high trees >> is up there too. He rills out in thousandfold twigs, >> sways to and fro, >> sits in an ejector seat that releases in slow motion. >> >> The man down by the jetties narrows his eyes at the water. >> The jetties grow old more quickly than people. >> They have silver grey timber and stones in their stomachs. >> The blinding light beats right in. >> >> The man traveling all day in an open boat >> over the glittering straits >> >> Will sleep at last inside a blue lamp >> while the islands creep like large moths across the glass. >> >> Translation by Robert Fulton >> >> Breathing Space July >> >> The man who lies on his back under huge trees >> is also up in them. He branches out into thousands of tiny branches. >> He sways back and forth, >> he sits in a catapult chair that hurtles forward in slow motion. >> >> The man who stands down at the dock screws up his eyes against the >> water. >> Docks get older faster than men. >> They have silver-gray posts and boulders in their gut. >> The dazzling light drives straight in. >> >> The man who spends the whole day in an open boat >> moving over the luminous bays >> will fall asleep at last inside the shade of his blue lamp >> as the islands crawl like huge moths over the globe. >> >> Translation by Robert Bly >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:50:49 -0500 >>> From: "Bob Grumman" >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Transtromer >> >> >>>> It doesn't matter whether you've read a whole book. What matters (if >>>> you >>>> are interested in educating yourself and others about your esthetic >>>> predilections) is that you make specific comments about a specific >>>> poem. >>> >>> How about a specific question such as the one implied by my post, >>> what's >>> this guy do that's special? >>> >>> --Bob G. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 12 09:26:58 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:26:58 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry References: Message-ID: <004b01c74eb1$db2fcf70$d3aa3452@ANNY> I found several ones with dates, I thought we had to stick to years. All the poems I sent up to now have been taken from The Northon Anthology of Poetry, fourth edition, Margaret Ferguson, Mary Jo Salter, John Stallworthy. this should be it, Amen: Easter 19161 William Butler Yeats I have met them at close of day Coming with vivid faces >From counter or desk among grey Eighteenth-century houses. I have passed with a nod of the head Or polite meaningless words, Or have lingered awhile and said Polite meaningless words, And thought before I had done Of a mocking tale or a gibe To please a companion Around the fire at the club, Being certain that they and I But lived where motley is worn: All changed, changed utterly: A terrible beauty is born. That woman's days were spent In ignorant good will, Her nights in argument Until her voice grew shrill. What voice more sweet than hers When, young and beautiful, She rode to harriers?2 This man had kept a school And rode out winged horse, 3 This other his helper and friend Was coming into his force; He might have won fame in the end, So sensitive his nature seemed, So daring and sweet his thought. This other man I had dreamed A drunken, vainglorious lout.4 He had done most bitter wrong To some who are near my heart, Yet I number him in the song; He, too, has resigned his part In the casual comedy; He, too, has been changed in his turn, Transformed utterly: A terrible beauty is born. Hearts will one purpose alone Through summer and winter seem Enchanted to a stone To trouble the living stream. The horse that comes from the road, The rider, the birds that range >From cloud to tumbling cloud, Minute by minute they change; A shadow of cloud on the stream Changes minute by minute; A horse-hoof slides on the brim, And a horse plashes within it; The long-legged moor-hens dive, And hens to moor-cocks call; Minute by minute they live: The stone's in the midst of all. Too long a sacrifice Can make a stone of the heart. O when may it suffice? That is Heaven's part, our part To murmur name upon name, As a mother names her child When sleep at last has come On limbs that had run wild. What is it but nightfall? No, no, not night but death; Was it needless death after all? For England may keep faith For all that si done and said. We know their dream, enough To know they dreamed and are dead, And what if excess of love Bewildered them till they died? I write it out in a verse - MacDonagh and MacBride And Connolly and Pearse Now and in time to be, Wherever green is worn, Are changed, changed utterly. A terrible beauty is born. September 25, 1916 1 - An Irish Nationalist uprising had been planned for Easter Sunday 1916, and although the German ship that was bringing munitions had been intercepted by the British, attempts to postpone the uprising failed; it began in Dublin on Easter Monday. "Fifteen hundred men seized key points and an Irish republic was proclaimed from the General Post Office. After the initial surprise prompt British military action was taken, and when over 300 lives had been lost the insurgents were forced to surrender on April 29. . The seven signatories of the republican proclamation, including [P?draic] Pearse and [James] Connolly, and nine others were shot after court martial between 3 and 12 May. 75 were reprieved and over 2000 held prisoners" [From "Ireland History," by D. B. Quinn, in Chambers's Encyclopedia]. 2 - Countess Constance Georgina Markiewicz, n?e Gore-Boothe, about whom Yeats wrote: "On a Political Prisoner" and a later poem, "In Memory of Eva Gore-Booth and ConMarkiewicz." 3 - P?draic Pearse, headmaster of St. Enda's School, and a prolific writer of poems, plays, and stories, as well as of essays on Irish politics and Gaelic literature. The winged mythological horse, Pegasus, is here used as a symbol of poetic inspiration. "This other" was Thomas MacDonough, also a schoolteacher. 4 - Major John MacBride who had married Maud Conne (the woman with whom Yeats had for years been hopelessly in love) in 1903 and separated from her in 1905. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 12 09:48:04 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:48:04 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Americana, 1924 They learned first how to handle a rifle and went into the woods for squirrel and pheasant and hooked bait with the care of a paleontologist. At night they sat with whisky and said to a companion "Let's get drunk" and the answer came back "All right." When they went to war and were afraid and got shot up and found a girl and had a family or shot lion and climbed Kilimanjaro and pursued the dark Iberian gored who sighted with his sword the place of death behind the bull's neck and went in over the horns, holding back nothing, all they had to say was "It's good when the fall rains come" and the answer was "Swell." Will there be no more larks or Cezanne apples? Adieu then. --Carl Rakosi fr. Sumac (Vol. 2, No. 4; Fall 1970) Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 11:59:10 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:59:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Speaking of '1979', that's another good one by Billy Corgan/Smashing Pumpkins. Finnegan In a message dated 2/11/2007 8:32:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: So 1980 in many ways can be a bogey-man for me! (Boo! Or as Gil Scott Heron put it in his (why not call it a poem?) song lyric from 1979--- "it's 1980 and there ain't no way back to 1975 much less 1969 it's 1980 and there ain't nobody ask me no time lately how we gonna open the door for 1984...." what year are you IN now? (must choose at least 3....) public time, private time....LIKE wordsworth's 1805 PRELUDE or the 1855 LEAVES OF GRASS (those dates might as well be the TITLE of the poem the way it's treated TALKING HEADS'77 is no more of a true title than SEX PISTOLS'77 ah the shell game of fashion in a maddening (Hyusmansesque) pallor (parlor) oh, and pathos.... the time in the composition, continuous peasant 2002, by any other name, would smell as nasal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 12:17:22 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:17:22 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] new Ashbery reviewed Message-ID: _http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/entertainment/books/16670710.htm_ (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/entertainment/books/16670710.htm) Posted on Sun, Feb. 11, 2007 A poet with a gift for the odd and unique A Worldly Country By John Ashbery Ecco. 76 pp. $23.95 Reviewed by Bryan Appleyard 'Who charted / this anxious mappemonde," asks John Ashbery, "barren of side roads / and identity crises?" The mappemonde - world map - seems to be in our heads, charted. Yet is it also unknowable? It depicts the "worldly country" of this collection's title. In common speech worldly means something like "materialistic," but, highlighted thus, suggests a place that is a world. It can also be misread - or, in my case, repeatedly mistyped - as "wordy." We are in a world of words that stubbornly remains undiscovered so that, when our mouths are finally stopped, we will be sure that "there was much left to say." But about what? Everything? The trick with Ashbery is to relax. You are not going to get what you expect, nor, in all likelihood, what you want. But what you will get will be beautiful, strange and, above all, unique. Ashbery is stricken by the sheer discreteness of things. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 12:19:15 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:19:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Enroll Now in Writing Workshops & Seminars Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: 92nd Street Y Literary Reading & Writing Workshops <92y at 92y.pmailus.com> Subject: Enroll Now in Writing Workshops & Seminars Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:05:28 -0500 (EST) Size: 26936 URL: From JforJames Mon Feb 12 12:33:59 2007 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:33:59 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Message-ID: Guided Tour of Skyscraper 2000 We take the elevator to the top, stepping out onto into the full light and ceaseless wind of the high steel. Construction began in 1900 and is not yet complete. Some Native-American workers mutter "manifest destiny" as we pass along a narrow gantry, all around the clank of metal, acetylene blue flares, the push to finish the last stories before the end of the century. We take an unenclosed stairwell down to 98, running everywhichway, loops & coils of computer cable, phonelines, a tangle of computer monitors slung under the ceiling. Spread out over a conference table milled from ebony, chainsawed then dragged out of an Indonesian rainforest by oxen, there's a high-stakes poker game going on in Eurodollars and yen-value derivatives, winner-take-all, but the developing countries don't have enough to buy in. Down another set of stairs, we walk from room-to-stark-white-room, hospital wards where AIDS patients lying on gurneys, emaciated, wrapped in sheets, daub open sores with the newest salves, waiting for a cure. Other rooms taken over by garage bands cranking up huge amps to the point of feedback, full of power chords and lung-busting angst, beating on rows of empty oildrums until the fossil fuels run out. Paisley people in palsied dancing, naked in the rain. Dogs let loose on black children. Long cars with big fins funneling down ramps of parking garages emptying onto freeways headed for model neighborhoods, many square miles of homes, all alike, perfect green yards without trees, kids playing army get cut down by the machinegun fire of sprinklers, Vietnam, Korea, steaming casseroles laid out on formica-topped dinettes, then flashlight tag 'til aproned mothers call them home. Stand back and shield your eyes, there's a blinding, concussive light behind the glass doors to Hiroshima-Nagasaki Ltd. Floors in the 40s are still burning, a fine bone-white ash wafting from the offices of the Reich III Corporation, dust blowing down rutted corridors on 33, whole families in trucks moving west toward where the sun fails and falls each day into the Pacific, outside only the suicidal rain of stock traders leaping to their deaths. A speakeasy down two flights, jazz seeping molten under the door, just knock twice, at the bar a man sips a gin fizz, nervously pulls at the brim of a fedora, shell casings loose in the pocket of his pinstriped suit. A few floors below, hallways like trenches cut through mud, glint of bayonnets, gasmasks and whistles blowing, light fixtures explode illuminating a no-man's-land of twisted barbwire, bombcraters smoldering. Farther down, in the basement, all of the dead are being stacked like cordwood for stoking a great cast-iron boiler which better never breakdown, because by now no one's left alive who really knows how to fix the thing. The eyes of small animals shine beneath a wooden skid, roaches scatter under gaslight, growing dim. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 12 15:19:10 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:19:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry References: Message-ID: <004001c74ee3$0e992a10$1dde3052@ANNY> I think I already read this poem, and I have loved it. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry Guided Tour of Skyscraper 2000 We take the elevator to the top, stepping out onto into the full light and ceaseless wind of the high steel. Construction began in 1900 and is not yet complete. Some Native-American workers mutter "manifest destiny" as we pass along a narrow gantry, all around the clank of metal, acetylene blue flares, the push to finish the last stories before the end of the century. We take an unenclosed stairwell down to 98, running everywhichway, loops & coils of computer cable, phonelines, a tangle of computer monitors slung under the ceiling. Spread out over a conference table milled from ebony, chainsawed then dragged out of an Indonesian rainforest by oxen, there's a high-stakes poker game going on in Eurodollars and yen-value derivatives, winner-take-all, but the developing countries don't have enough to buy in. Down another set of stairs, we walk from room-to-stark-white-room, hospital wards where AIDS patients lying on gurneys, emaciated, wrapped in sheets, daub open sores with the newest salves, waiting for a cure. Other rooms taken over by garage bands cranking up huge amps to the point of feedback, full of power chords and lung-busting angst, beating on rows of empty oildrums until the fossil fuels run out. Paisley people in palsied dancing, naked in the rain. Dogs let loose on black children. Long cars with big fins funneling down ramps of parking garages emptying onto freeways headed for model neighborhoods, many square miles of homes, all alike, perfect green yards without trees, kids playing army get cut down by the machinegun fire of sprinklers, Vietnam, Korea, steaming casseroles laid out on formica-topped dinettes, then flashlight tag 'til aproned mothers call them home. Stand back and shield your eyes, there's a blinding, concussive light behind the glass doors to Hiroshima-Nagasaki Ltd. Floors in the 40s are still burning, a fine bone-white ash wafting from the offices of the Reich III Corporation, dust blowing down rutted corridors on 33, whole families in trucks moving west toward where the sun fails and falls each day into the Pacific, outside only the suicidal rain of stock traders leaping to their deaths. A speakeasy down two flights, jazz seeping molten under the door, just knock twice, at the bar a man sips a gin fizz, nervously pulls at the brim of a fedora, shell casings loose in the pocket of his pinstriped suit. A few floors below, hallways like trenches cut through mud, glint of bayonnets, gasmasks and whistles blowing, light fixtures explode illuminating a no-man's-land of twisted barbwire, bombcraters smoldering. Farther down, in the basement, all of the dead are being stacked like cordwood for stoking a great cast-iron boiler which better never breakdown, because by now no one's left alive who really knows how to fix the thing. The eyes of small animals shine beneath a wooden skid, roaches scatter under gaslight, growing dim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Feb 12 15:32:14 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) Message-ID: <731bb17a0702121232k10974dcdv577b8a2125bcf7e3@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of it on my blog, as well. I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. Please keep posting ideas as you get them. Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "1953," Jack Gilbert "1957," Marianne Boruch "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) "1969," R.S. Gwynn 1970-1979 "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost 2000 & Beyond "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Mon Feb 12 15:48:10 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:48:10 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702121232k10974dcdv577b8a2125bcf7e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _1968_. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of it on my blog, as well. I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. Please keep posting ideas as you get them. Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "1953," Jack Gilbert "1957," Marianne Boruch "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) "1969," R.S. Gwynn 1970-1979 "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost 2000 & Beyond "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." -William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 12 15:50:35 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:50:35 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Banking Lesson, 1970 Your hero's welcome was cleaning floors at the local bank for minimum wage. A little joke to start the day, leaning on a pole, a train rumbling through a tunnel, a blue janitor's uniform from Sears replacing olive green. You were reading Stendhal, stuck in your back pocket like a confession. Each day, seven A.M., you began your tour sweeping tape across the computer room, everyone watching, you could tell. Knock first before checking the washrooms for paper stock, empty trash pails for executives. If they knew the murder in your head.... Lunch was a cafeteria filled with girls in six-inch heels and men in blue suits. You ached as you passed through the line. Back by the loading docks you smoked your wrath up, watched armored trucks bring the day's deposits from the branches. How far could you get, you wondered, Wednesdays mopping the main vault, stacks of bills rising in piles on the walls. How far? --Kevin Bowen Hal You Are Not Authorized To View This Page Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini Mon Feb 12 16:21:27 2007 From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:21:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) References: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <007f01c74eeb$c1db3c00$1dde3052@ANNY> :-) we are all here typing word by word, and here comes Skip Fox with a thick Book! that is amazing... From: Skip Fox Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:48 PM Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _1968_. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of it on my blog, as well. I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. Please keep posting ideas as you get them. Jeff Newberry The 20th Century in Poetry Pre-20th Century "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer 1900-1909 1910-1919 "September 1913," W.B. Yeats "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats "Since 1916," Margaret Walker "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats 1920-1929 "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy "1926," Weldon Kees 1930-1939 "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats "1933," Philip Levine "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden 1940-1949 "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost 1950-1959 "1953," Jack Gilbert "1957," Marianne Boruch "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman 1960-1969 "1965," David Graham "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens "1966," Anny Ballardrini "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) "1969," R.S. Gwynn 1970-1979 "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern 1980-1989 "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer 1990-1999 "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost 2000 & Beyond "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." -William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry Mon Feb 12 16:36:06 2007 From: jeff.newberry (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:36:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <731bb17a0702121232k10974dcdv577b8a2125bcf7e3@mail.gmail.com> <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0702121336g496c8049g20a7f6fecb5a3ccd@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Skip. Jeff On 2/12/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _*1968*_. > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Newberry > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM > *To:* NewPoetry > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) > > > > Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of > it on my blog, as well. > > > > I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no > poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is a > popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. > > > > Please keep posting ideas as you get them. > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > > The 20th Century in Poetry > > > > Pre-20th Century > > > > "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer > > > > 1900-1909 > > > > 1910-1919 > > > > "September 1913," W.B. Yeats > > "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin > > "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats > > "Since 1916," Margaret Walker > > "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden > > "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats > > > > 1920-1929 > > > > "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski > > "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy > > "1926," Weldon Kees > > > > 1930-1939 > > > > "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats > > "1933," Philip Levine > > "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo > > "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds > > "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa > > "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden > > > > 1940-1949 > > > > "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost > > > > 1950-1959 > > > > "1953," Jack Gilbert > > "1957," Marianne Boruch > > "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman > > > > 1960-1969 > > > > "1965," David Graham > > "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens > > "1966," Anny Ballardrini > > "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) > > "1969," R.S. Gwynn > > > > 1970-1979 > > > > "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch > > "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel > > "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern > > > > 1980-1989 > > > > "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer > > > > 1990-1999 > > > > "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker > > "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost > > > > 2000 & Beyond > > > > "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Mon Feb 12 16:53:05 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:53:05 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <007f01c74eeb$c1db3c00$1dde3052@ANNY> References: <000a01c74ee7$217dc150$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <007f01c74eeb$c1db3c00$1dde3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <23008241-FDE7-4603-9D5E-C84EA3380B67@earthlink.net> Well, Skip didn't type the book in, so it doesn't count. Hal "I loathe writing. On the other hand I'm a great believer in money.Often when I couldn't pay the grocery bill, Providence intervened and I don't mean my natal city, Providence, which can be counted on for nothing." --S. J. Perelman Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 12, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > :-) > we are all here typing word by word, and here comes Skip Fox with a > thick Book! > that is amazing... > From: Skip Fox > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:48 PM > > Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _1968_. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wizcath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM > To: NewPoetry > Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) > > > Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping > track of it on my blog, as well. > > > I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny > that no poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of > course, 1910-1919 is a popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI > looms large here. > > > Please keep posting ideas as you get them. > > > Jeff Newberry > > > The 20th Century in Poetry > > > Pre-20th Century > > > "From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer > > > 1900-1909 > > > 1910-1919 > > > "September 1913," W.B. Yeats > > "MCMXIV," Philip Larkin > > "Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats > > "Since 1916," Margaret Walker > > "1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden > > "Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats > > > 1920-1929 > > > "Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski > > "Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy > > "1926," Weldon Kees > > > 1930-1939 > > > "Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats > > "1933," Philip Levine > > "Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo > > "I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds > > "1938," Yusef Komunyakaa > > "September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden > > > 1940-1949 > > > "U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost > > > 1950-1959 > > > "1953," Jack Gilbert > > "1957," Marianne Boruch > > "Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman > > > 1960-1969 > > > "1965," David Graham > > "Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens > > "1966," Anny Ballardrini > > "1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) > > "1969," R.S. Gwynn > > > 1970-1979 > > > "Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch > > "1976," Jeffrey McDaniel > > "Days of 1978," Gerald Stern > > > 1980-1989 > > > "Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer > > > 1990-1999 > > > "Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker > > "It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost > > > 2000 & Beyond > > > "Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan > > > > -- > "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than > recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." > ?William Faulkner, Light in August > > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor Mon Feb 12 17:25:54 2007 From: editor (David Baratier) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:25:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: 1968 In-Reply-To: <200702122106.l1CL6jt5021879@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <501286.14639.qm@web83101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Skip, there has to be an outrageous number of poems with 1968 in the title thinking of Black Sparrow not only is there Ed's poem there is E.P. in Venice: Remembering April 1968 and I smile by Paul Blackburn and at least 12 others found in another collection, the Journals Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 Mon Feb 12 17:05:26 2007 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:05:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 20th. Century in Poetry Message-ID: <45D09E97.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> The Merrill poem to which David referred a few days back is "Days of 1964." In the same volume, *Nights and Days*, he also has a poem called "1939." Others: Charles Olson, "May 20, 1959" and "May 31, 1961," in the Collected Poems; "Maximus, March 1961--I" and "II,"December, 1960," "February 3rd. 1966 High Tide," etc., etc.--there's a ton of Maximus poems that use the date as title, though that date very often has no particular resonance beyond marking the date of composition. Alan From suelin7184 Tue Feb 13 06:50:47 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:50:47 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams & things Message-ID: <000801c74f65$34160ce0$0301a8c0@LindaSue> Please remind me: Was it William Carlos Williams who said, "No meaning except in things"? Thanks, LSG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suelin7184 Tue Feb 13 06:53:18 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 05:53:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: <000f01c74f65$8e466de0$0301a8c0@LindaSue> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in things." Thanks & carry on, Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From letitia.trent Tue Feb 13 09:35:35 2007 From: letitia.trent (L Trent) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:35:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Issue of 21 Stars Review Message-ID: The fourth issue of 21 Stars Review (http://sundress.net/21stars) is up! Featuring poetry and prose from Nina Alvarez, Arlene Ang, F.J. Bergmann, Michelle Bitting, C.L. Bledsoe, Mark DeCarteret, Jennifer Gravely, Len Joy, Amanda Laughtland, Duane Locke, Kyle Minor, Alison Shaffer, and Shellie Zacharia. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Feb 13 11:42:57 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:42:57 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] 20th. Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: <45D09E97.AC48.0004.0@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <000001c74f8e$09f88220$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> The titles of journal entries of Paul Blackburn's _The Journals_, ed. Robert Kelly (e.g., "March 1971" & "Journal: December 11, 1969"). -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alan C Golding Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 4:05 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] 20th. Century in Poetry The Merrill poem to which David referred a few days back is "Days of 1964." In the same volume, *Nights and Days*, he also has a poem called "1939." Others: Charles Olson, "May 20, 1959" and "May 31, 1961," in the Collected Poems; "Maximus, March 1961--I" and "II,"December, 1960," "February 3rd. 1966 High Tide," etc., etc.--there's a ton of Maximus poems that use the date as title, though that date very often has no particular resonance beyond marking the date of composition. Alan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rog3r.day Tue Feb 13 11:50:33 2007 From: rog3r.day (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:50:33 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1959, Sisters Of Mercy My birthyear. On 2/12/07, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Speaking of '1979', that's another good one by Billy Corgan/Smashing > Pumpkins. > Finnegan > > In a message dated 2/11/2007 8:32:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: > > So 1980 in many ways can be a bogey-man for me! (Boo! > > > Or as Gil Scott Heron put it in his (why not call it a poem?) song lyric > from 1979--- > "it's 1980 and there ain't no way back to 1975 > much less 1969 > it's 1980 and there ain't nobody ask me no time lately > how we gonna open the door for 1984...." > > > what year are you IN now? (must choose at least 3....) > > > public time, private time....LIKE wordsworth's 1805 PRELUDE or the 1855 > LEAVES OF GRASS > (those dates might as well be the TITLE of the poem the way it's treated > TALKING HEADS'77 is no more of a true title than SEX PISTOLS'77 > > > ah the shell game of fashion in a maddening (Hyusmansesque) pallor (parlor) > oh, and pathos.... > the time in the composition, continuous peasant > 2002, by any other name, would smell as nasal > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious." From opus40-01 Tue Feb 13 12:05:19 2007 From: opus40-01 (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:05:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Message-ID: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Feb 13 12:07:02 2007 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:07:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> Message-ID: And Pound who said "the natural object is always the adequate symbol." ____________________________ On 2/13/07 11:05 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > >> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in >> things." >> >> Thanks & carry on, >> >> Jai Guru! >> --LSG >> ________________________________ >> Blessings, >> Linda Sue Grimes >> Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/academics/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryseiler Tue Feb 13 12:59:57 2007 From: barryseiler (barry seiler) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:59:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0702121336g496c8049g20a7f6fecb5a3ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff-- Do you know a book titled 1946, Matthew Graham, Galileo books. It has a poem titled "Days of 46. I have a poem titled 1960 if you want to have a look. Regards, Barry Seiler >From: "Jeff Newberry" >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:36:06 -0500 > >Thanks, Skip. > >Jeff > > >On 2/12/07, Skip Fox wrote: >> >> Ed Sanders has an entire book on 1968 titled _*1968*_. >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>*From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: >>new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Newberry >>*Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2007 2:32 PM >>*To:* NewPoetry >>*Subject:* [New-Poetry] The 20th Century in Poetry (List so Far) >> >> >> >>Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this list. I'm keeping track of >>it on my blog, as well. >> >> >> >>I've tabulated the responses so far and pasted them below. Funny that no >>poems between 1900 and 1909 have been submitted. Of course, 1910-1919 is >>a >>popular (right word?) decade for poetry--WWI looms large here. >> >> >> >>Please keep posting ideas as you get them. >> >> >> >>Jeff Newberry >> >> >> >>The 20th Century in Poetry >> >> >> >>Pre-20th Century >> >> >> >>"From the Island, 1860," Tomas Transtromer >> >> >> >>1900-1909 >> >> >> >>1910-1919 >> >> >> >>"September 1913," W.B. Yeats >> >>"MCMXIV," Philip Larkin >> >>"Easter 1916," W.B. Yeats >> >>"Since 1916," Margaret Walker >> >>"1916 Seen from 1921," Edmund Blunden >> >>"Nineteen Hundred and Nineteen," W.B. Yeats >> >> >> >>1920-1929 >> >> >> >>"Americana, 1924," Carl Rakoski >> >>"Christmas: 1924," Thomas Hardy >> >>"1926," Weldon Kees >> >> >> >>1930-1939 >> >> >> >>"Coole Park and Ballylee, 1931," W.B. Yeats >> >>"1933," Philip Levine >> >>"Paris, October 1936," Cesar Vallejo >> >>"I Go Back to May, 1937," Sharon Olds >> >>"1938," Yusef Komunyakaa >> >>"September 1, 1939," W.H. Auden >> >> >> >>1940-1949 >> >> >> >>"U.S. 1946, King's X," Robert Frost >> >> >> >>1950-1959 >> >> >> >>"1953," Jack Gilbert >> >>"1957," Marianne Boruch >> >>"Somewhere in Manhattan, 1958," Bob Grumman >> >> >> >>1960-1969 >> >> >> >>"1965," David Graham >> >>"Mozart, 1965," Wallace Stevens >> >>"1966," Anny Ballardrini >> >>"1967," Thomas Hardy (1867) >> >>"1969," R.S. Gwynn >> >> >> >>1970-1979 >> >> >> >>"Vietnam Birthday Lottery, 1970," Marianne Boruch >> >>"1976," Jeffrey McDaniel >> >>"Days of 1978," Gerald Stern >> >> >> >>1980-1989 >> >> >> >>"Days of 1986," Carolyn Kizer >> >> >> >>1990-1999 >> >> >> >>"Days of 1999," Marilyn Hacker >> >>"It Is Almost the Year Two Thousand," Robert Frost >> >> >> >>2000 & Beyond >> >> >> >>"Guided Tour of a Skyscraper 2000," Jim Finnegan >> >> >> >>-- >>"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >>recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." >>?William Faulkner, Light in August >> >> >>http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New-Poetry mailing list >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > >-- >"Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than >recollects, >longer than knowing even wonders." >?William Faulkner, Light in August > > >http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us From barry.spacks Tue Feb 13 13:33:27 2007 From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:33:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: terse Williams In-Reply-To: <200702131700.l1DH05t5024001@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200702131700.l1DH05t5024001@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <944E9AF6-6FC4-4602-A087-A7523782757F@verizon.net> > "Linda Sue Grimes" wrote: > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas > except in things." > I remember "but" as the fulcrum (?) "No ideas but in things." Barry From halvard Tue Feb 13 13:45:33 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> References: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> Message-ID: And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the > thing itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas > except in things." > > Thanks & carry on, > > Jai Guru! > --LSG > ________________________________ > Blessings, > Linda Sue Grimes > Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip Tue Feb 13 14:06:33 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:06:33 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I've been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural (beside the sound, of course) in "No ideas but it things." But I haven't come to much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said you can think of one thing without language, but the second you think of two things the ideas inevitably flow. Any ideas (thick with "things")? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself." On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in things." Thanks & carry on, Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 13 14:12:13 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:12:13 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Some character in an O'Hara novel (10 North Frederick, as I recall) once said, "Thinking stinks." Hal "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." --Marshall McLuhan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > I?ve been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural > (beside the sound, of course) in ?No ideas but it things.? But I > haven?t come to much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said > you can think of one thing without language, but the second you > think of two things the ideas inevitably flow. > > > Any ideas (thick with ?things?)? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind > > > And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? > > > Hal > > > Actual Product May Vary from Photos > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at gmail.com > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > > > > > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the > thing itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas > except in things." > > > Thanks & carry on, > > > Jai Guru! > --LSG > ________________________________ > Blessings, > Linda Sue Grimes > Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lattaj Tue Feb 13 14:29:38 2007 From: lattaj (John Latta) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:29:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: References: <000501c74fa2$197e6ac0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Frank O'Hara, of course: "I'm not saying that I don't have practically the most lofty ideas of anyone writing today, but what difference does that make? they're just ideas. The only good thing about it is that when I get lofty enough I've stopped thinking and that's when refreshment arrives." John http://isola-di-rifiuti.blogspot.com/ On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Some character in an O'Hara novel (10 North Frederick, as I recall) > once said, "Thinking stinks." > > Hal > > "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." > --Marshall McLuhan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > >> I?ve been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural (beside >> the sound, of course) in ?No ideas but it things.? But I haven?t come to >> much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said you can think of one >> thing without language, but the second you think of two things the ideas >> inevitably flow. >> >> >> Any ideas (thick with ?things?)? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind >> >> >> And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> Actual Product May Vary from Photos >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> >> ================ >> >> halvard at gmail.com >> >> halvard at earthlink.net >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> >> >> On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: >> >> >> >> >> And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing >> itself." >> >> >> >> On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: >> >> I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in >> things." >> >> >> Thanks & carry on, >> >> >> Jai Guru! >> --LSG >> ________________________________ >> Blessings, >> Linda Sue Grimes >> Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> New-Poetry mailing list >> >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip Tue Feb 13 14:33:59 2007 From: skip (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:33:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c74fa5$ee6b5c40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Diptych bumpersticker for the radical intuitionalists: "First thought . . . already too late" -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:12 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind Some character in an O'Hara novel (10 North Frederick, as I recall) once said, "Thinking stinks." Hal "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." --Marshall McLuhan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Skip Fox wrote: I've been thinking for some time about why Williams uses the plural (beside the sound, of course) in "No ideas but it things." But I haven't come to much. I know that the linguist Sapir (I think) said you can think of one thing without language, but the second you think of two things the ideas inevitably flow. Any ideas (thick with "things")? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:46 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing itself." On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in things." Thanks & carry on, Jai Guru! --LSG ________________________________ Blessings, Linda Sue Grimes Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Feb 13 15:18:59 2007 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:18:59 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Don't miss this Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRjVeRbhtRU CLO ED FOR REN VATION Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james Tue Feb 13 16:03:44 2007 From: cervantes.james (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 14:03:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams: never mind In-Reply-To: References: <4979.1171386319@opus40.org> Message-ID: <648208b60702131303t798a6f5dha97b397a66a82532@mail.gmail.com> Or "Nothing's about the thong but the thong itself"? - Jim On 2/13/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > And who said, "Nothing's about the thingie but the thingie itself"? > > Hal > > > Actual Product May Vary from Photos > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.comhttp://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 11:05 AM, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > And it was Stevens who said, "Not ideas about the thing but the thing > itself." > > > > On Tue Feb 13 6:53 , 'Linda Sue Grimes' sent: > > > > I just found the answer to my question. Williams said, "No ideas except in > things." > > Thanks & carry on, > > Jai Guru! > --LSG > ________________________________ > Blessings, > Linda Sue Grimes > Poetry http://poetry.suite101.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From suelin7184 Tue Feb 13 16:24:32 2007 From: suelin7184 (Linda Sue Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:24:32 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: terse Williams References: <200702131700.l1DH05t5024001@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <944E9AF6-6FC4-4602-A087-A7523782757F@verizon.net> Mes