From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Aug 1 02:12:58 2007 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Feature Kaya Oakes Message-ID: <104293.65037.qm@web83824.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> One of our authors Kaya Oakes has poems featured on Verse Daily today. If you go to the site and the poem's no longer posted, click on "Archives" at the bottom and you'll see a link for July 31. http://www.versedaily.com/ Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 1 15:30:09 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:30:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logenbach reviews a selection of poetry books In-Reply-To: <8C9A28941BF8E04-B20-94E4@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9A262DBAC81B5-B20-80D3@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> <8C9A28941BF8E04-B20-94E4@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9A2898196A017-B20-94FE@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/books/review/Longenbach-t.html?ex=1186113600&en=0b54fd636f91b15c&ei=5070 FYI... recent James Logenbach review in NYTimes Book Review. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 1 15:33:06 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:33:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bonnefoy set to music Message-ID: <8C9A289EB1F5AAB-B20-9529@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theage.com.au/news/music/shining-images-score-sound-tribute/2007/07/26/1185339163419.html?page=fullpage Shining images score sound tribute Email Print Normal font Large font Peter Craven July 28, 2007 Words meet music: French poet Yves Bonnefoy says that in creative terms, he and composer David Chisholm "are from the same country". Photo: Lucy Bonnefoy Melbourne composer David Chisholm has written a song cycle for the "spare grandeur" and symbolic landscapes of Yves Bonnefoy's famous poems about snow, writes Peter Craven. Melbourne is about to hear the first performances of a new song cycle written by the Melbourne composer David Chisholm and sung by Miriam Gordon-Stewart. The work is called The Beginning and the End of Snow and it sets to music the words of a famous sequence of poems, Debut et fin de la neige, by the French poet Yves Bonnefoy, who is a poet of such high reputation that if he were to win the Nobel prize he would bring more honour to the award than it would bring to him. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Wed Aug 1 20:23:12 2007 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 17:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Boog City Poetry Festival PSP Perchik, Baratier, NYC In-Reply-To: <200708011600.l71G05KQ028935@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <458434.97690.qm@web83825.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Boog City Poetry Festival Opener Readings by Simon Perchik, David Baratier, Rachel Simon, Dan Zimmerman and Tony Gloeggler. On Thurs 8/2 at ACA Galleries, 529 w 20th St, 5th Floor, NYC, 6:00 p.m. Pavement Saw Press from Columbus, Ohio not only will appear but I, David Baratier, will introduce and tell stories about how I chose books by all of the readers such as Simon Perchik who will be the feature, a man who, with Paul Blackburn, created what is currently known as The Poetry Project. I read with him back in 2003, which was his last reading in NYC. I convinced him to evict himself from from his cave and substantially emote which is no small thing for this small press champion who has appeared in every press listed in Dustbooks _THE INTERNATIONAL GUIDE TO SMALL PRESSES AND PUBLISHERS_ last year. His previous reading in NYC was over 25 years ago in the early 1970's. Poets who have passed on, such as Charles Olson, William Bronk, Jackson MacLow, Robert Creeley, David Ignatow, and many others as well as living poets such as James Tate, X. J. Kennedy, Naton Leslie, Donald Baker, Robert Peters and many a more star filled cast have had substantially positive things to say about him. The collection I published, _Hands Collected: The Books of Simon Perchik Poems 1949-1999, which placed his first 17 collections back in print, was nominated for the National Book Award and has went through two editions. His next collection _The Family of Man_, another massive 550 plus page book, will appear from Pavement Saw Press in 2008. I do hope you take the time to come and see this rare event. Tony Gloeggler's first full length book was published by Pavement Saw Press. He is an underdog, a narrative poet who has been important enough to escape attention but go into a second edition on the strength of the word of mouth created by this narrative collection. I would like to say that many accolades brought him to this point but no, only the strength of his poems, and course adoptions, brought him to a second edition of 1000. He has two other chaps out, one won the Pearl poetry prize. Rachel M. Simon's first book _Theory of Orange_ rankled many and recieved negative notice as a "poet of the moment" from POETRY Magazine while receiving highest accolades from Publishers Weekly. Go Figure. This intriguing first collection is well worth the time, if it matters even Dean Young puts it in the top of his list for 2007. Check it out. Daniel Zimmerman's collection _Post Avant_ changed poetry. Even the idea of "Post Avant" stems from this collection which is perhaps why it has become such a staple in the realm of American poetry. With a solid backing, and forward, by Bob Creeley, this is a collection of note that has done well, again, by word of mouth. Preceeded by a collaboration with one of the most important critics of the later 20th century, John (Jack) Clarke, which was then followed by some brilliant process work from various presses and has solidified his improtance. This is his first book after 30+ years in the field. So yes, I will introduce them all and tell a bunch of jokes in the process. Probably a bunch of the rumors that have been handed me, it is tough to say. Boy I love jokes. And fabrications for that matter. In the past, personal experience with Brad Gooch, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity has made the bill but who knows. Directions: C/E to 23rd Street, 1/9 to 18th St Venue is between 10th and 11th avenues. Also the next night, August 3rd at Sidewalk Cafe 94 Ave A, NYC I read at 10:30 PM right after Wanda Phipps and Tom Devaney Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave, L to 1st Ave Venue is at E. 6th Street. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SLIDINGSCA at aol.com Wed Aug 1 21:42:47 2007 From: SLIDINGSCA at aol.com (SLIDINGSCA at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:42:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hiroshima Day Reading at The Living Theater Mon Aug 6 Message-ID: Living Poetry at The Living Theater Presents Hiroshima Day Reading at The Living Theater, Monday, August 6th, 8-11, $6 Curated by: Dorothy F. August Open Mike to follow reading Dorothy F. August Steve Cannon Luis Chaluisan Steve Dalachinsky Bob Hershon Eliot Katz Judith Malina Lissa Moira Yuko Otono Hanon Reznikov Bina Sharif Larissa Shmailo George Wallace Chavisa Woods Bill Zavatsky Joanie Fritz-Zosike Larissa Shmailo (http://myspace.com/larissaworld) "The poet, like the lover, is a menace on the assembly line." -Rollo May _http://_ (http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com/) _www.myspace.com/thenonetworld_ (http://www.myspace.com/thenonetworld) _http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com_ (http://larissashmailo.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 2 10:29:14 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:29:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "To the One Reading Simic" Message-ID: <47C79F1F-69DA-47BE-9470-02E49AC1E5FA@earthlink.net> To the One Reading Simic Penitentiaries locked down for the night, Thousands of felons lying awake in them, As we, too, lie awake, mon amour, Straining not to hear more than the quiet. The furry whiteness at the ceiling Of our darkened room like a patient Etherized upon a table in the stone-cold morgue. Do you hear the one reading Simic, The faint sounds he makes?licking his finger, Turning the pages? It could be your pulse or mine In these wrists we lean our cabezas against As if Norman Mailer had stopped by to peep Through that one tiny crack in our door. [source: "To the One Tunneling" by Charles Simic, The New Yorker, Jan. 15, 2001] Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 2 09:59:15 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:59:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: Charles Simic, Surrealist With Dark View, Is Named Poet Laureate Message-ID: <200708021359.l72DxFKP030420@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it. C.S. described himself as a city poet because he has lived in cities all of my life, except for the last 35 years. ... and he is 69 ... :-) BOOKS | August 2, 2007 Charles Simic, Surrealist With Dark View, Is Named Poet Laureate By MOTOKO RICH Charles Simic, a writer who juxtaposes dark imagery with ironic humor, is to be named the country's 15th poet laureate by the Librarian of Congress today. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/books/02poet.html?ex=1186718400&en=6cc9432a8cc22c3f&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 2 16:12:11 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:12:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_eps_113=3A_gonz=E1lez=2C_hambu?= =?iso-8859-1?q?rger=2C_watanabe?= Message-ID: <000e01c7d541$69c7f0d0$1faf3452@ANNY> Puede ser que a alien le interese este, ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:04 PM Subject: eps 113: gonz?lez, hamburger, watanabe n113[31.07.07] elpoemaseminal gonz?lez, hamburger, watanabe atisbos En los meses recientes fallecieron tres poetas de obra muy diversa: el ingl?s Michael Hamburger, el guatemalteco-mexicano Otto-Ra?l Gonz?lez y el peruano Jos? Watanabe. Hamburger estuvo varias veces en M?xico y aqu? apareci? una antolog?a de su trabajo. Gonz?lez vivi? en la capital mexicana desde 1954. Watanabe, por su parte, tuvo entre sus amigos a varios poetas mexicanos. Este n?mero quiere rendir un sencillo tributo a su labor literaria. ADI?S A OTTO-RA?L GONZ?LEZ Carlos Rojas Urrutia "Ser? recordado como un escritor m?s. Me gustar?a que dijeran que era un buen poeta. Hasta ah?", dijo Otto Ra?l Gonz?lez en una reciente entrevista. El maestro, uno de los grandes de la poes?a guatemalteca del siglo XX, muri? el fin de semana pasado en M?xico, pa?s en donde vivi? durante casi 60 a?os, desde que sali? al exilio durante la dictadura de Ubico. El nombre de Otto Ra?l, como ?l ped?a que lo llamaran, est? ligado a otros dos grandes de la literatura nacional: Augusto Monterroso y Carlos Illescas, con los que comparti? una aventura no solamente literaria, sino vital y pol?tica, que resume la condici?n del escritor guatemalteco durante el pasado siglo, asfixiado por la represi?n y las dictaduras. No me ubico Nacido en la ciudad de Guatemala, el 1 de enero de 1921, Otto Ra?l Gonz?lez surge al panorama literario en 1943 con la publicaci?n de Voz y voto del geranio, un peque?o libro de poemas que escond?a detr?s de su encendido lirismo una fuerte cr?tica a la dictadura. El t?tulo es la primera manifestaci?n de rechazo de una juventud, m?s tarde reunida en la llamada Generaci?n del 40, frente al silencio y la represi?n impuestos por Jorge Ubico. Implicado de lleno en la resistencia contra la dictadura ubiquista, el poeta se ve obligado a huir hacia M?xico luego de que la Polic?a lo golpeara salvajemente durante una manifestaci?n. En la capital mexicana toma contacto con una importante generaci?n de escritores latinoamericanos en ciernes -entre ellos Juan Rulfo, Ernesto Cardenal, Rosario Castellanos, Jaime Sabines- y con una de las leyendas vivas de la literatura, Don Alfonso Reyes, quien le consigue una beca para finalizar sus estudios. Durante los gobiernos revolucionarios de Ar?valo y Arbenz, Gonz?lez se desempe?? en cargos diplom?ticos. A partir de la llegada al poder de Castillo Armas y las subsiguientes dictaduras militares, el escritor se vio impedido de regresar a Guatemala durante m?s de 40 a?os. Escribir y fumar La mayor?a de la obra de Otto Ra?l fue publicada en M?xico durante su exilio y la constituyen alrededor de 40 libros, entre ellos A fuego lento (1946), Para quienes gusten o?r la lluvia en el tejado (1962), Diez colores nuevos (1967), Cementerio clandestino (1976), Agua encantada (1988), Diamante negro (1990), El conejo de las orejas en reposo y Luna mutilada (1991). En 1990 le fue otorgado en Guatemala el Premio Nacional de Literatura Miguel ?ngel Asturias y hace apenas unas semanas la Universidad de San Carlos le confiri? el t?tulo de Doctor Honoris Causa. "?Qu? hace en la actualidad?", le preguntaron a Otto Ra?l en la entrevista citada al principio. El poeta respondi?: "Lo que hago es seguir escribiendo, escribir y fumar. Me morir? escribiendo y fumando. seguir? luchando por la poes?a, seguir? instalado en estas c?maras de tortura de la poes?a, que en cierta forma son as?, pero que tienen salidas hacia otras cosas muy distintas como la felicidad, el placer y la alegr?a de vivir. De todo eso que debe cantar y canta la poes?a". "La poes?a es un arte, no es para solucionar problemas, estos los solucionan los pol?ticos, los economistas y los especialistas encargados de gobernar un pa?s. Pero la poes?a en cierta forma orienta y ayuda a estas personas en el poder, se?alando los problemas e incluso proponiendo posibles soluciones que puedan ser llevadas o no a la pr?ctica. La poes?a tiene un fin, que es el de servir a la humanidad". www.elperiodico.com.gt/es/20070626/14/41053/ LA VERDAD DE LA POES?A Homero Aridjis El poeta, traductor y ensayista Michael Hamburger acaba de morir a los 83 a?os en Suffolk, Inglaterra, adonde se hab?a retirado para vivir. Hamburger visit? M?xico en 1981 y 1987 para leer su obra en el Primer Festival Internacional de Poes?a de Morelia y en el Festival Internacional de Poes?a de la Ciudad de M?xico. Biling?e, casi de nacimiento, Hamburger era considerado uno de los mejores traductores del siglo XX por sus versiones ya cl?sicas de las obras de Friedrich H?lderlin y Paul Celan, y de autores alemanes contempor?neos como G?nter Grass, de quien tambi?n era amigo. Nacido en Berl?n el 22 de marzo de 1924 en el seno de una familia jud?a de clase media alta, a los nueve a?os Michael abandon? Alemania con sus padres y su hermano menor (el futuro editor de libros de arte Paul Hamlyn) cuando los nazis acabaron con la Rep?blica de Weimar. La familia se radic? en Edimburgo y Michael se educ? en Oxford, luchando en la Segunda Guerra Mundial al lado de las fuerzas brit?nicas. Hamburger public? m?s de 20 vol?menes de poes?a y varios libros de cr?tica (notablemente La verdad de la poes?a. Tensiones en la poes?a moderna de Baudelaire a los a?os sesenta, traducido al espa?ol [M?xico, FCE, 1991]) y una autobiograf?a reveladora, A Mug's Game. Entre los escritores -en su mayor?a poetas- que tradujo al ingl?s se encuentran Georg B?chner, Paul Celan, Hans Magnus Enzensberger, W. Goethe, Peter Huchel, G?nter Grass, H?lderlin, Rainer Maria Rilke, Hugo von Hofmannsthal, Bertolt Brecht y Georg Trakl, adem?s de un volumen de las cartas, diarios y conversaciones de Beethoven, aunque tambi?n tradujo los Veinte poemas en prosa de Charles Baudelaire. Michael fue amigo de W.G. Sebald, quien como ?l hab?a emigrado de Alemania, viv?a en la regi?n de East Anglia y era al?rgico al alcohol. Tradujo al ingl?s un par de libros suyos y Sebald lo puso como personaje semificticio en Los anillos de Saturno. Refiri?ndose a s? mismo, Hamburger escribi? "Posiblemente nunca hubiera empezado a hacer traducciones durante mi adolescencia si no hubiera sido para m? la traducci?n un puente hacia una cultura perdida para m? en cualquier otro aspecto". Pero naturalista y amante del campo (en su propiedad en el condado de Suffolk cultivaba 35 variedades casi extintas de manzanas) todav?a lo veo en 1981 caminando de la ciudad de Morelia a Santa Mar?a, con el poeta franc?s Andr? du Bouchet (traductor de H?lderlin al franc?s), identificando plantas y flores. Precisamente en 1971, durante un festival en el que estuvimos en Austin, yendo una tarde ellos y yo por los campos de Texas, el poeta Christopher Middleton, quien era profesor all?, nos previno: "No se salgan del sendero, porque un ranchero bruto puede tirarles de balazos por haber entrado en su propiedad inadvertidamente". A Hamburger lo hab?a conocido en Londres, hace exactamente cuatro d?cadas, durante una conferencia del poeta franc?s Yves Bonnefoy. Desde entonces nos hicimos amigos y mi esposa y yo varias veces nos quedamos en su casa de la calle de Half Moon, un barrio popular de Londres, y ?l nos visit? en Berna, Rotterdam, Morelia y la Ciudad de M?xico. Por una extra?a coincidencia, la luz se extingui? para Michael Hamburger un 7 de junio, un d?a despu?s -pero de 1843- que muri? Friedrich H?lderlin, de quien Michael public? un primer libro de traducciones al ingl?s en 1943, en plena guerra con Alemania. H?lderlin siempre estaba presente en la poes?a de Michael Hamburger. Por eso mismo, para recordarlo escojo uno sus poemas m?s misteriosos e impactantes que ley? en Morelia en 1981. AMANTE LOCO, DAMA MUERTA Oh, mi Di?tima. ?No es de mi Di?tima de quien est?is hablando? Trece hijos me pari?, uno de ellos es Papa, Sult?n el siguiente, el tercero zar de Rusia. ?Y sab?is qu? le pas?? Loca, es como le fue, loca, loca, loca. Trece funerales me hicieron cuando mor?. Pero ella no vino a ellos. Encerrada en una torre. As? son las cosas: Se fue a la vuelta, al jard?n donde se encuentran los amantes, caminando, hablando juntos. Del otro lado del muro. No hay nadie. Hasta que ustedes las visitas vienen. ?Escribir? el cad?ver un poema hoy sobre su dama loca? Pero te dir? un secreto: nos encontramos. A la vuelta, del otro lado del muro est? siempre nuestro jard?n, descansando, con flores de cada estaci?n. Vendremos cada uno de una calle oscura y el sol brilla. Ella r?e cuando le digo que es como estar muerto. R?o cuando me da noticias de nuestros hijos locos, quienes se han abierto paso en el mundo. No hay poema hoy, se?or. Vaya a casa. En un sue?o ver? c?mo se remueven los muertos hacia la locura. Y parecen olvidar a sus amados, cada uno en su propia calle oscura. Como tus amados locos parecen olvidar sus muertos. As? son las cosas. No hay nadie. Oh, mi Di?tima. Esper?ndome en el jard?n. Versi?n de Homero Aridjis. Las primeras seis l?neas son las palabras que supuestamente dijo H?lderlin a J. G. Fischer en respuesta a un comentario suyo sobre Susette Gontard, mujer a quien H?lderlin am? y celebr? en sus poemas como Di?tima. Susette Gontard muri? en 1802, por el tiempo en que H?lderlin se volvi? incurablemente loco. El ?ngel, supl. de Reforma, M?xico, 17 de junio de 2007 LA CASA DE WATANABE (1946-2007) Miguel ?ngel Zapata Jos? Watanabe acaba de morir en Lima. La noticia me la dieron llegando al Centro Cultural Mapocho de Santiago de Chile hace pocos d?as. ?Qu? puede uno pensar cuando le cuentan que un gran poeta ha muerto, que su casa se ha cerrado, pero para abrir sus puertas en otro espacio, y que sus ventanas y cerraduras seguir?n buscando por el aire su permanencia? ?C?mo no pensar que su "escalera va del patio a la azotea y en el tercer pelda?o/ el sol relumbra,/ el solcito de los condenados relumbra siempre y debidamente"? ?C?mo olvidar estos versos? Imposible olvidar la lumbre de este sol. Tampoco pens? escribir nada sobre su viaje, ni de su casa imaginaria, ni de su iguana y su limonero. Pero a esta hora de la madrugada, cuando todo casi es silencio, uno rememora algunas sonrisas, conversaciones y gratos encuentros en Lima y en Nueva York. De su poes?a siempre me atrajo esa compleja transparencia, tan dif?cil de lograr hoy en d?a, cuando abundan tantos versos que no tienen sentido o no quieren tener sentido. Con tanta poes?a que le huye al sinsentido pensando que as? se logra la profundidad, la dureza del diamante, el fraseo sin vida. Por eso Watanabe va a quedar, su casa seguir? abierta, y su desierto ser? en poco tiempo el nuestro, y nos seguiremos identificando con sus lagunas y su cielo. As?, esta noche record? los gratos momentos que pasamos aqu? en la Universidad de Hofstra, en Long Island, Nueva York, en noviembre de 2003, con ?l y Micaela. Fue aquella vez que lo invitamos a leer sus poemas (en castellano, ingles y japon?s), y a dar una conferencia sobre el haik? y su presencia en la poes?a hispanoamericana. Ah? pudo distinguir entre el verdadero hacedor de haik?s y los bufones que piensan que hacen haik?s, pero se quedan s?lo en kus, como muchos que creen escribir sonetos pero se quedan en sones. La poes?a de Watanabe quedar? como quedar? la poes?a del mexicano Francisco Cervantes, porque estos poetas caminaron su desierto callados, mirando el cielo que les escrib?a, sintiendo la sombra de sus propios ?rboles. Nunca dijeron que hab?an descubierto el silabeo perfecto, ni tampoco su jactancia era tan descontrolada como algunos poetas que piensan que el parnaso es su alfombra favorita y, adem?s, que ya vuelan sobre ella. Watanabe permanece porque su poes?a se ubica dentro de una visualizaci?n de materias m?viles, y determina la belleza del bosque umbr?o, la met?fora descubriendo a sus lectores el espacio afectivo de la interiorizaci?n de las cosas. Hay una propuesta de Gast?n Bachelard que se cumple en la po?tica de Watanabe: se trata de un intercambio de intimidad -de materia- del sujeto y del objeto. As?, la arcilla, la arena, el arenal del desierto de Olmos, es la materia fundadora del ser, y el bosque, dentro de su tenacidad misma, es el punto en que borra la oposici?n de la materia a la luz. Desde la serenidad del arenal, en el que irrumpe la met?fora de la lagartija, sus poemas muestran el reposo y el movimiento de objetos imantados ante la presencia inexorable del eterno retorno. El eterno retorno, hip?tesis bosquejada por el pitag?rico Eudemo, ofrece esta vez al poeta contempor?neo una renovaci?n incesante, un perpetuo deslumbramiento. Los seres y los objetos vuelven a cobrar vida, resurgiendo en las im?genes-ventanas, desde donde tambi?n ingresa a la naturaleza una flor crecida, la primavera y el limonero. Estos elementos habitan en sus mejores libros: la mantis religiosa, el ?rbol y la aldea contemplada, el pino ca?do, el amor y la muerte vuelven con extraordinaria s?ntesis a poblar la poes?a, creando una unidad sorprendente. En la poes?a de Watanabe hay muchas casas, espacios y olores: la hermana picando el perejil, un olor de comida y de viento fuerte que llega a conmovernos como pocos poetas de hoy. El poema puede surgir en la sala o en el jard?n, en el interior o el exterior, siempre desde el l?mite de Jano, desde el umbral donde coinciden lo familiar y lo desconocido. Ah? se siente el intercambio de la verdadera intimidad. Ahora lo veo sonriendo con Micaela bajo las torres de las letras, atravesando el puente que da al centro estudiantil, despidi?ndonos de la iron?a del oto?o, y oy?ndolo repetir: A veces pienso cabalgar nuevamente hasta esa posada para colgar en su puerta estos versos: En la cima del risco retozan el cabr?o y su cabra. Abajo, el abismo. La Jornada Semanal, 1 de julio de 2007 testimonios OTTO-RA?L GONZ?LEZ TU PECHO Tu pecho tierra labrant?a Jard?n privado de dos l?mparas. Tu pecho es mar y r?o dulce de tiernas aguas que derriban diques. Tu pecho es cielo breve cielo y miniatura de la v?a l?ctea vi?a de fuego y simiente de ciclones tu pecho elemental tu pecho de uva en donde siento que palpita el universo. VOZ Y PROFEC?A Oigo tu clara voz, tu voz rotunda, vivo geranio, martillando el viento; oigo tu fresco, varonil acento que los espacios como el sol inunda. En la niebla compacta, que difunda tu voz la claridad con nuevo aliento; la renovada luz sobre el lamento que parte nuestra sombra gemebunda. Mientras m?s en la dura tierra se hunda tu ra?z para s?lido cimiento es m?s clara tu voz y m?s fecunda y, percibida por el irredento, vierte en la oscuridad que nos circunda la profec?a de un resurgimiento. GRANDEZAS El puma amanec?a en los dientes del sol amanec?a el sol en los dientes del puma Cantaba la malva canciones de guerra la guerra cantaba canciones de malva Los hombres fumaban tabaco de sue?os con hombres valientes so?aba el tabaco Los pr?ncipes jugaban carga-sillita con la muerte la muerte jugaba carga-sillita con los pr?ncipes De tama?as grandezas a?n brilla la memoria y ruge el atabal en los cuatro horizontes MICHAEL HAMBURGER HOMENAJE AL TIEMPO Una marea, una marea alta de aire dorado. ?A d?nde se hab?an ido las abejas? Y cuando ning?n zumbido se dirigi? hacia la madreselva, titubeante, se convirti? en cuerpo, se adhiri? y bebi?, brisa, negada, los p?talos colgaron, y esperaron, aband?nate es lo que el verano quiso decir. Un rinc?n del jard?n, hiedra sobre tabillas rotas, una rama con borlas anaranjadas: buddleia globosa. Entre dos r?fagas una corriente de aire dorado, simplemente quietud, quiz?, suspenso -pero las abejas se adhieren y beben. Muros que trajeron consigo: patio negro de Par?s, un pedazo de m?rmol, desplomado, polvo en las hojas, un estanque de carpas, el tr?fico no lejano, audible, sin embargo excluido; ?rbol en flor o arbusto en cualquier ciudad de clima inestable, muros para contener una quietud, un estremecimiento, el a?o que se realiza, abejas para ser inmovilizadas. Entre dos r?fagas, g?lidas ondas, la dorada marea. Traducci?n de Aurelio Major, Miguel ?ngel Flores y Ver?nica Volkow T?MESIS Noble r?o, transporta alimento para hombres y gaviotas. Hermoso r?o, esta tarde de invierno se disuelve en p?rpuras y grises, torre, chimenea, embarcadero, un espejo empa?ado por bruma y labios de amantes. Esta tarde vi el rostro de mi amigo, amoratado, despu?s de cuarenta d?as a la deriva entre g?lidas orillas, en aguas terrosas. Y regresamos a casa, a lo largo del Embankment donde ?l respir?, haragane?, am? en una bruma de malvas y grises mientras el desecho de gaviotas y hombres, golpeaba el bulto negro de las fal?as. P?lido, pero con suficiente combustible. y con suficiente comida para seguir, hoy, ma?ana no lejos del r?o, a?n capaz de ser enga?ado a veces, hacia abajo a trav?s de la luz de la l?mpara serpenteante me lanzo dentro de lodo aut?ntico. JOS? WATANABE Para m? la poes?a es eso, algo que aparece muy fugaz. Pero esa aparici?n fugaz es como si la naturaleza de alguna manera nos hablara. Y en ese instante es muy contundente y verdadero lo que nos dice. Es una verdad esencial, pero que desaparece como detr?s de la niebla. El problema viene en c?mo compartirla con un lector. Y obviamente viene el pleito con el lenguaje. Corregir, corregir y corregir es acercarse cada vez m?s a esa verdad, a transmitir esa verdad que entreviste. Por eso es esa necesidad que tengo de hacer muchas correcciones. Porque en la primera versi?n te das cuenta de que no, que hay que pulir m?s. Claro, pero en este pulir no debe perderse la carga an?mica, la carga emocional. Ese es el riesgo de corregir mucho. POEMA TR?GICO CON DUDOSOS LOGROS C?MICOS Mi familia no tiene m?dico ni sacerdote ni visitas y todos se tienden en la playa saludables bajo el sol del verano. Algunas yerbas nos curan los males del est?mago y la religi?n s?lo entra con las campanas alborotando los canarios. Aqu? todos se han muerto con una modestia conmovedora, mi padre, por ejemplo, el lamentable Prometeo silenciosamente picado por el c?ncer m?s bravo que las ?guilas. Ahora nosotros ninguno doctor o notable en el coraz?n de modestas tribus, la tribu de los relojeros la m?s triste de los empleados p?blicos la de los taxistas la de los due?os de fonda de vez en cuando nos ponemos tr?gicos y nos preguntamos por la muerte. Pero hoy estamos aqu? escuchando el murmullo de la mar que es el morir. Y este murmullo nos reconcilia con el otro murmullo del r?o por cuya ribera anduvimos matando sapos sin misericordia, revent?ndolos con un palo sobre las piedras del r?o tan metaf?rico que da risa. Y nadie hab?a en la ribera contemplando nuestras vidas hace a?os sino solamente nosotros los que ahora descansamos colorados bajo el verano como esperando el vuelo del garrote sobre nuestra barriga sobre nuestra cabeza nada notable nada notable. ?lbum de familia, 1971 EL AN?NIMO (ALGUIEN, ANTES DE NEWTON) Desde la cornisa de la monta?a dejo caer suavemente una piedra hacia el precipicio, una acci?n ociosa de cualquiera que se detiene a descansar en este lugar. Mientras la piedra cae libre y limpia en el aire siento confusamente que la piedra no cae sino que baja convocada por la tierra, llamada por un poder invisible e inevitable. Mi boca quiere nombrar ese poder, hace aspavientos, balbucea y no pronuncia nada. La revelaci?n, el principio, fue como un pez huidizo que aflor? y volvi? a sus abismos y todav?a es innombrable. Yo me contento con haberlo entrevisto. No tuve el lenguaje y esa falta no me desconsuela. Alg?n d?a otro hombre, subido en esta monta?a o en otra, dir? m?s, y con precisi?n. Ese hombre, sin saberlo, estar? cumpliendo conmigo. El huso de la palabra, 1989 LA ORUGA Te he visto ondulando bajo las cucardas, penosamente, trabajosamente, Pero s? que ma?ana ser?s el aire. Hace mucho supe que no eras un animal terminado y como entonces arrodillado y tr?mulo te pregunto: ?Sabes que ma?ana ser?s en el aire? ?Te han advertido que esas dos molestias a?n invisibles ser?n tus alas? ?Te han dicho cu?nto duelen al abrirse o s?lo sentir?s de pronto una levedad, una turbaci?n y un infinito escalofr?o subi?ndote desde el culo? T? ignoras el gran prestigio que tienen los seres en el aire y tal vez mir?ndote las alas no te reconozcas y quieres renunciar, pero ya no: debes ir al aire y no con nosotros. Ma?ana mirar? sobre las cucardas, o m?s arriba. Haz que te vea, quiero saber si es muy doloroso el aligerarse para volar. Hazme saber si acaso no es mejor no despegar nunca la barriga de la tierra. Historia natural, 1994 EL GUARDI?N DEL HIELO Y coincidimos en el terral el heladero con su carretilla averiada y yo que corr?a tras los p?jaros huidos del fuego de la zafra. Tambi?n coincidi? el sol. En esa situaci?n c?mo negarse a un favor llano: el heladero me pidi? cuidar su ef?mero hielo. Oh cuidar lo fugaz bajo el sol... El hielo empez? a derretirse bajo mi sombra, tan desesperada como in?til Diluy?ndose dibujaba seres esbeltos y primordiales que s?lo un instante ten?an firmeza de cristal de cuarzo y enseguida eran formas puras como de monta?a o planeta que se devasta. No se puede amar lo que tan r?pido fuga. Ama r?pido, me dijo el sol. Y as? aprend?, en su ardiente y perverso reino, a cumplir con la vida: Yo soy el guardi?n del hielo. Cosas del cuerpo, 1999 zonas RECIBE POETA MEXICANO BECA GUGGENHEIM Por la calidad de su obra po?tica, Pedro Serrano, profesor de la Facultad de Filosof?a y Letras y editor del Peri?dico de Poes?a de la UNAM, obtuvo la Beca Guggenheim para Am?rica Latina y el Caribe en el ?rea de poes?a. Con esta distinci?n -que otorga la John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation- no se reconoce mi trabajo acad?mico, sino como escritor, concretamente como poeta; de hecho, para esta regi?n se dieron 35 est?mulos econ?micos, despu?s de analizar 395 solicitudes. Tres de ellos se ubican en el ?rea de poes?a y fueron para creadores de M?xico, Brasil y Argentina, precis? en un comunicado de la UNAM. Para obtener esta beca, Serrano -quien suma 30 a?os haciendo poes?a y 25 de publicar su obra- present? un proyecto donde pretende escribir un poema largo, mediante el cual recorra las distintas ciudades en las que ha vivido y diversas experiencias vitales. Se otorga por un a?o, y consiste en un apoyo econ?mico y la posibilidad de desarrollar con toda libertad el trabajo creativo, se?al? el autor de los libros El Miedo, Ignorancia, Turba y Nueces. Otros beneficiados han sido: Jos? Agust?n, Vicente Le?ero, Juan Rulfo, Carlos Monsiv?is, Jorge Ibarg?engoitia, Miguel Le?n-Portilla, Nabor Carrillo, Octavio Paz, Arturo Rosenblueth y Juan Jos? Gurrola, entre otros. El autor [junto con Carlos L?pez Beltr?n] de La generaci?n del cordero. Antolog?a de la poes?a actual de las islas brit?nicas explic? que tiene tres modos de escritura, una es visual, otra descriptiva y la tercera es de distintas voces de personajes que hablan. "Lo que me interesa en el poema es emplear las tres, lo cual es dif?cil", destac?. La poes?a toca aspectos que ning?n otro lenguaje humano alcanza. "Si no tenemos acceso y conocimiento de poemas somos muy limitados intelectualmente", destac?. Pedro Serrano, afirm? que el poeta debe tener la capacidad de hacer que sus vivencias puedan convertirse en lenguaje y, al momento de transmitir su trabajo, el lector sienta que esas palabras son suyas. Como poeta, apunt?, esta beca significa que hay un espacio p?blico y adem?s internacional donde se reconoce mi labor creativa y, en ese sentido, me siento halagado. www.reforma.com, 6 de julio de 2007 "EL EDITOR INDEPENDIENTE TIENE EL DEBER DE FORMAR LECTORES". [ROC?O CER?N, DIRECTORA DE EL BILLAR DE LUCRECIA] FERNANDO CAMACHO SERVIN Como escritor, "no tiene sentido esperar a?os enteros para ver si las grandes editoriales te hacen caso alg?n d?a. "Vale m?s organizarse, crear un sello propio y difundir la poes?a, el cuento o la novela en 'operaci?n hormiga', creando redes literarias de solidaridad para hacer escuchar tu voz." A tal conclusi?n llega la poeta mexicana Roc?o Cer?n (DF, 1972), directora de la editorial independiente El Billar de Lucrecia (EBL), especializada en poes?a contempor?nea en espa?ol, que este jueves 19 de julio festejar? sus primeros dos a?os de actividad. Surgida en diciembre de 2004, EBL se ha conformado como un proyecto editorial con l?nea bien definida que, merced a su trabajo previo, logr? recientemente el apoyo del Fondo Nacional para la Cultura y las Artes, con el cual podr? lanzar al mercado cuatro libros m?s este a?o, para sumar 15. Visita a escuelas Aunque ya ha alcanzado cierta estabilidad en el tema de la producci?n e inclusive en el de la distribuci?n, uno de los m?s espinosos para quienes se dedican a este negocio, por su experiencia como autora Cer?n tiene claro que "el editor que crea que s?lo con publicar ya cumpli?, est? en un gran error. El trabajo de las editoriales independientes debe ser formar lectores", explica a La Jornada, al hacer una evaluaci?n de su trabajo. En ese proceso, EBL ha visitado escuelas secundarias y de educaci?n superior para promover no s?lo sus vol?menes, sino el gusto por la poes?a en general entre los j?venes estudiantes. "Hay chavos que est?n en condiciones econ?micas dif?ciles y aun as? se acercan a la literatura, porque encuentran v?nculos con otras personas, con otras partes del mundo. "No es suficiente con tener medianamente cubiertas algunas necesidades b?sicas; hace falta nutrirse de la imaginaci?n y el arte", apunta. A este sector, uno de los m?s "?vidos y receptivos", es a quienes debieran dirigirse los creadores, porque "a veces somos muy endog?micos: queremos que nos lean los tres 'poetas mayores', nuestros amigos, en vez de abonar la tierra f?rtil de los j?venes." Para Roc?o Cer?n, las editoriales independientes no son s?lo una alternativa m?s, sino la fuerza que marca el rumbo actual de la poes?a en espa?ol, en ambos lados del Atl?ntico. La estrategia del camelleo La estrategia de supervivencia y crecimiento de los peque?os sellos consiste en el camelleo: si voy a otro pa?s o ciudad, me llevo algunos libros -m?os y de otras editoriales-, y los distribuyo en una especie de red guerrillera, "que a veces tiene m?s incidencia que las grandes empresas", indica la poeta. Poner blogs, pasarse contactos, ayudarse mutuamente. De esta forma, EBL ha logrado colocar sus vol?menes en ciudades como Lima, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Berl?n y Madrid. "Para hacer visible nuestro trabajo, debemos dialogar m?s y superar la mezquindad de jalar cada quien para su lado." Uno de los motivos por los cuales la poes?a no se ha difundido lo suficiente, eval?a, es la falta de curiosidad de las instituciones culturales, que no incluyen en los estantes de las bibliotecas m?s que a Pablo Neruda, Jaime Sabines y Octavio Paz. "Es necesario que haya apertura de miras y se entienda que las obras contempor?neas pueden hacer que los lectores se acerquen despu?s a los cl?sicos." Un juego que tiene final En pleno trabajo de difusi?n de sus m?s recientes libros, entre ellos Bala perdida, de la espa?ola Montserrat Alvarez; Transversal, del chileno Pedro Montealegre, y Horoskope, del peruano Juan Carlos Irigoyen (a los que se sumar?n despu?s sendas antolog?as de poes?a contempor?nea brasile?a, colombiana y mexicana), Roc?o Cer?n sabe que este proyecto se acabar? al cumplir el objetivo de lanzar 15 vol?menes. "Quer?amos hacer la Polaroid de una generaci?n de poetas. El Billar de Lucrecia naci? como un juego, y todo juego tiene su final. No quiero una editorial eterna ni atarme a proyectos de toda la vida. Al respecto, esta es una editorial muy zen: vive aqu? y ahora." la Jornada., 17 de julio de 2007 BOCETO DE INGMAR BERGMAN [1918-2007] ADRI?N DESIDERATO B ergman dec?a s? como levantarme en las ma?anas c?mo lavarme el rostro c?mo vestirme para salir al d?a s? c?mo cepillarme los dientes c?mo peinarme c?mo tomar caf? s? c?mo dirigir a mis actores c?mo marcar una secuencia encuadrar una toma pero no s? qu? hacer con Dios Bergman dec?a no s? d?nde guardarlo no cabe en mis almuerzos en ning?n sitio cabe dec?a Bergman me duele la cabeza dec?a entonces la miraba a Liv Ullmann y filmaba el infierno ____________________________________________ Comit? editorial luis alberto alfaro (costa rica)/ cruz ben?tez/ fabienne bradu/ sergio c?rdenas/ luis cort?s bargall?/ miguel jorge castillo/ evodio escalante/ julio c?sar f?lix/ alfredo giles-d?az/ jes?s g?mez mor?n/ armando gonz?lez torres/ ricardo hern?ndez ech?varri (eu)/ sa?l ibargoyen/ jos? kozer (eu)/ eduardo langagne/ hern?n lav?n cerda/ luc?a de luna/ floriano martins (brasil)/ jos? manuel mateo/ santiago montobbio (espa?a)/ angelina mu?iz-huberman/ jorge ortega (espa?a)/ armando oviedo/ george reyes (ecuador)/ manuel silva acevedo (chile)/ felipe v?zquez/ ?scar wong/ elsa zeferino/ editor web: ignacio simal (espa?a)/ coordinador: leopoldo cervantes-ortiz elpoemaseminal es un proyecto independiente de divulgaci?n sin afanes de lucro ni de promoci?n de una sola l?nea est?tica o cultural. no est? vinculado a ning?n grupo o instituci?n, por lo que abre sus puertas a todos los autores/as de M?xico y de cualquier parte del mundo. reconoce que los espacios para la poes?a, con todo y que ahora son muchos dentro y fuera de la red cibern?tica, siguen siendo reducidos. el criterio de selecci?n es ?nicamente la calidad po?tica, debido a lo cual se aceptan aportaciones en todos los sentidos. se citar? siempre la fuente original. invitamos a los lectores/as y amigos/as a compartir poemas, libros, presentaciones, novedades y todo lo relacionado con la poes?a, as? como nuevas direcciones. www.elpoemaseminal.lupaprotestante.es elpoemasem at yahoo.com.mx, elpoemaseminal2007 at yahoo.com.mx correodepoesia at yahoo.com.mx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ?S? un mejor ambientalista! Encuentra consejos para cuidar el lugar donde vivimos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 2 17:52:37 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:52:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tale of two poetry mags Message-ID: <8C9A3669373F052-8D4-D045@webmail-mf16.sysops.aol.com> http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB118531832258476757.html Fortune as Fate: The Story Of Two Poetry Magazines By WILLARD SPIEGELMAN July 25, 2007; Page D12 It is neither the best of times nor the worst of times for poetry, but for Poetry the times could hardly be better. Founded in 1912 by Harriet Monroe, this Chicago-based magazine has chugged along gamely through thick and thin, a publishing venue for the unknown and the celebrated, and most notably the unknown who then become the celebrated. Poetry published some of the first poems of Ezra Pound, Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams. Its most famous early entry was a strange monologue spoken by a timid, sex-obsessed J. Alfred Prufrock and written by the young, unknown T.S. Eliot. Four years ago, Christian Wiman, then 36, took over as the magazine's new editor and helped to give the grand old lady a bit of a makeover, putting color on its cover while retaining the attractive pocket-book format. If anything, the magazine's prestige as the place everyone wants to be in has increased. Poetry receives 90,000 submissions annually and prints 300 of them. Under Mr. Wiman's leadership, subscriptions have skyrocketed from 10,000 (already an impressive number) to 30,000. This is, of course, modest compared with the numbers at People but virtually unheard of in the rarefied realm of the little magazine. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 2 17:55:28 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:55:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] in a blog fog Message-ID: <8C9A366F9234FEC-8D4-D071@webmail-mf16.sysops.aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/07/29/lost_in_the_blogosphere/?page=full Lost in the blogosphere Why literary blogging won't save our literary culture By Sven Birkerts? |? July 29, 2007 A GRADUALLY GRAYING book reviewer with several decades in the trenches, I've been nibbling at literary web sites and blogs for some time now -- out of curiosity, to be sure, but also from a sense of vocational self-preservation. I've been trying to make my peace with the changes -- and to decide once and for all if they represent an advance, a retreat, or simply the declaration of an emerging new order against which there is no point in kicking. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Aug 2 20:07:29 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:07:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Molenotes from all over Message-ID: <46B271C1.9050906@opus40.org> A poem, "Intelligence," in the current issue of Snakeskin - http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/ -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 2 20:30:14 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:30:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Laureled--- Message-ID: Anny picked this up first, but here's another annoucement of Simic being namedd our Poet Laureate. A great choice, I think. A great choice in these times... -- _http:// www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/02/ap/entertainment/main3128916.shtml_ (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/02/ap/entertainment/main3128916.shtml) Immigrant Simic To Be U.S. Poet Laureate Pulitzer Prize-Winning Poet Simic, An Immigrant, To Serve As New U.S. Poet Laureate CONCORD, N.H., Aug. 2, 2007 (AP) Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Charles Simic, who learned English as a teenage immigrant, will be the new U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress announced Thursday. Simic, who lives in Strafford, will replace another New Hampshire poet, Donald Hall of Wilmot, the poet laureate program, which promotes poetry across the nation. "I'm overwhelmed," he said. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 3 05:27:29 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:27:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Laureled--- References: Message-ID: <005d01c7d5b0$838d89c0$3baa3852@ANNY> I'm very happy you like Simic! ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 2:30 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic Laureled--- Anny picked this up first, but here's another annoucement of Simic being namedd our Poet Laureate. A great choice, I think. A great choice in these times... -- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/02/ap/entertainment/main3128916.shtml Immigrant Simic To Be U.S. Poet Laureate Pulitzer Prize-Winning Poet Simic, An Immigrant, To Serve As New U.S. Poet Laureate CONCORD, N.H., Aug. 2, 2007 (AP) Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Charles Simic, who learned English as a teenage immigrant, will be the new U.S. poet laureate, the Library of Congress announced Thursday. Simic, who lives in Strafford, will replace another New Hampshire poet, Donald Hall of Wilmot, the poet laureate program, which promotes poetry across the nation. "I'm overwhelmed," he said. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 09:35:54 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 06:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Readings In-Reply-To: <885373.93188.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <898060.27530.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Unabashedly, today is my birthday! I'll be making my way to Sidewalk Cafe in NYC tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, including Ed Berrigan (I Feel Tractor), who was also born on this day ... Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake Shop (see schedule below) -- And big thanks to David Kirschenbaum for putting this shindig, tirelessly, together -- the East Village will have no shortage of poets this weekend ! FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. Sidewalk Caf?? 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum Readings and musical performances -- 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n?? The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. SATURDAY - AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. -- NYC 11:00 a.m. 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair - Free 5:00 p.m. Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. ** Organized by Boog City ** http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 3 09:41:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:41:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Readings References: <898060.27530.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004a01c7d5d4$10391d30$3cec3652@ANNY> Hey Leo Amy, happiest happiest to you! Mine was on July 24, with readings as well but in Spain, LEOs are the BEST ! (Opps, not offending anybody I hope) Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Readings Unabashedly, today is my birthday! I'll be making my way to Sidewalk Cafe in NYC tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, including Ed Berrigan (I Feel Tractor), who was also born on this day ... Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake Shop (see schedule below) -- And big thanks to David Kirschenbaum for putting this shindig, tirelessly, together -- the East Village will have no shortage of poets this weekend ! FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. Sidewalk Caf?? 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum Readings and musical performances -- 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n?? The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. SATURDAY - AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. -- NYC 11:00 a.m. 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair - Free 5:00 p.m. Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. ** Organized by Boog City ** http://www.amyking.org/blog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Aug 3 10:38:14 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 10:38:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Readings In-Reply-To: <898060.27530.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <898060.27530.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46B33DD6.9040302@opus40.org> Happy Birthday Amy! amy king wrote: > Unabashedly, today is my birthday! I'll be making my way to Sidewalk > Cafe in NYC tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, > including Ed Berrigan (I Feel Tractor), who was also born on this day ... > > Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake > Shop (see schedule below) -- > > And big thanks to David Kirschenbaum for putting this shindig, > tirelessly, together -- the East Village will have no shortage of > poets this weekend ! > > FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. > > Sidewalk Caf?? > 94 Ave. A, NYC > free with a two-drink minimum > > Readings and musical performances -- > > 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell > 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux > 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) > 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman > 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor > 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney > 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n?? The Sparrows) > 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier > 11:00 p.m.-The Leader > 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses > > Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. > Venue is at E.6th St. > > > SATURDAY - AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. > > Cakeshop > 152 Ludlow St. -- NYC > > 11:00 a.m. > 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair - Free > > 5:00 p.m. > Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live > $5 > > 5:15 p.m.-Amy King > 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel > 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong > 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder > 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock > 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad > 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs > 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet > 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz > 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater > 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. > > Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. > Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. > > ** Organized by Boog City ** > > http://www.amyking.org/blog > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers > from > someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 3 14:18:06 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:18:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Readings In-Reply-To: <898060.27530.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9A411C5E84A2F-D50-275B@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> Have good one, Amy. Sounds like?a great way to celebrate your day. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: amy king amyhappens at yahoo.com Sent: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 9:35 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Birthday Readings Unabashedly, today is my birthday!? I'll be making my way to Sidewalk Cafe in NYC tonight to hear the folks below sing or say their poetry, including Ed Berrigan (I Feel Tractor), who was also born on this day ... ? Tomorrow night, Saturday, I'll be reading in wonderful company at Cake Shop (see schedule below) -- ? And big thanks to David Kirschhenbaum for putting this shindig, tirelessly, together -- the East Village will have no shortage of poets this weekend ! ? FRIDAY - AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. ? Sidewalk Caf?? 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum ? Readings and musical performances -- ? 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell> 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n?? The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses ? Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 3 14:23:59 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:23:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms Message-ID: <8C9A412988B1320-D50-27CA@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language. --Ludwig Wittgenstein Poetry is an opening up to the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 3 15:18:29 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 14:18:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <8C9A412988B1320-D50-27CA@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9A412988B1320-D50-27CA@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9C7D6634-DEAB-40AE-A6E5-FE575780DC00@earthlink.net> Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:23 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence > by means of language. > --Ludwig Wittgenstein > Poetry is an opening up to the bewitchment of our intelligence by > means of language. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Aug 3 15:32:59 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 14:32:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <9C7D6634-DEAB-40AE-A6E5-FE575780DC00@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003501c7d605$1f584e90$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> In Consideration for the Lowly Aphorism: You're asking a lot for an aphorism! Basically, it would need two more components: what kind of intelligence is being bewitched (dullish, slavishly logical, dialectical, ideological, confused or anxiety ridden, etc.) and in the service of what kind of greater intelligence (I'll not even suggest, except to say I'd not kick Lawrence out of bed) would we suspend or cloak it? That's a lot of information. Aphorisms seem to be a special breed. I've written some, but damned if I know how they get to be how they are. Any thoughts? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 2:18 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:23 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language. --Ludwig Wittgenstein Poetry is an opening up to the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Aug 3 16:14:26 2007 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:14:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Advanced Review Copies -- RHODE ISLAND NOTEBOOK (Dalkey Archive Press) Message-ID: <46B38CA2.5040802@ilstu.edu> Advanced Review Copies of *Rhode Island Notebook* by Gabriel Gudding are now available. 436 pages. Publication Date: Nov. 23, 2007. Perfect bound copies (in advance uncorrected galley) will be sent to interested reviewers. For a review copy, please query Martin Riker, riker at dalkeyarchive.com. Or write to him at Dalkey Archive Press, University of Illinois, 605 E. Springfield Ave MC-475, Champaign, IL 61820, USA. Jacket copy: ?Not since *On the Road* has a book been so thoroughly of the road. *Rhode Island Notebook*--written in Gudding's Toyota during twenty-six roundtrips between Illinois and Rhode Island?-chronicles the breakup of a marriage and the separation of a father and daughter. At turns angry, comic, kitschy, and lyrical, this book-length poem is an exorcism of violence both historical and personal. Ultimately intended as a gift for the driver's daughter, the book also includes essays on literary narcissism and dung; radio broadcasts; a surreal attack on Nancy Reagan; much about Iraq; and the story of one man's friendship with the Shenango River.? Blurbs on jacket: ?Rhode Island Notebook is a modern/postmodern epic as a poem-including-everything. An incredibly human/humane book at bottom, it is also Gudding?s road of excess, as Blake once had it, leading him (& us) to the palace of wisdom.? -- Jerome Rothenberg ?What might have been an experiment in conceptual writing has emerged into an exhilaration that makes me glad I?m still alive, in the midst of critique and highways. This is the first 21st-century classic.? ?- Alan Sondheim Sections, poems, essays from this book were first published in New American Writing, Jacket, Aufgabe, LIT, Action Yes, MiPoesias, Salt Hill, VeRT, L?Bourgeoizine, Mandorla:Nueva Escritura de Las Am?ricas, Spoon River Poetry Review, Court Green, Backwards City, Counterpath Online, and in the anthologies, Poetry 30: Thirtysomething American Thirtysomething Poets, The Other Voices International Poetry Project, and Cadence of Hooves: A Celebration of Horses. A pr?cis of the book will be placed on my website in a week's time: http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 3 17:22:55 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:22:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <003501c7d605$1f584e90$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <003501c7d605$1f584e90$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <0284B7BE-D04C-458E-A703-2F4310CC8AAE@earthlink.net> Same way as fine French cooking, the key to which (I've heard) is this: Reduce your sauces. Hal "I hate flowers. I only paint them because they're cheaper than models and they don't move." --Georgia O'Keefe Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 3, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > In Consideration for the Lowly Aphorism: > > > You?re asking a lot for an aphorism! Basically, it would need two > more components: what kind of intelligence is being bewitched > (dullish, slavishly logical, dialectical, ideological, confused or > anxiety ridden, etc.) and in the service of what kind of greater > intelligence (I?ll not even suggest, except to say I?d not kick > Lawrence out of bed) would we suspend or cloak it? That?s a lot of > information. > > > Aphorisms seem to be a special breed. I?ve written some, but damned > if I know how they get to be how they are. Any thoughts? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 2:18 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms > > > Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. > > > Hal > > > "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the > > policeman is there to preserve disorder." > > --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:23 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence > by means of language. > --Ludwig Wittgenstein > > Poetry is an opening up to the bewitchment of our intelligence by > means of language. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 3 18:32:37 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 18:32:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms Message-ID: In a message dated 8/3/2007 3:18:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. Except that in that sphere the word is often shunned in favor of the image. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Aug 3 21:51:09 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:51:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46B3DB8D.5050409@opus40.org> You mean like Bob Grumman's poetry? JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/3/2007 3:18:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. > > Except that in that sphere the word is often shunned in favor of the > image. > Finnegan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Aug 4 04:24:35 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (anny.ballardini at tin.it) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 04:24:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NYTimes.com: From Wyoming to Montana on Foot Message-ID: <200708040824.l748OZKP012696@wiz.cath.vt.edu> This page was sent to you by: anny.ballardini at tin.it. don't know if you'll like it, but I think it is rather ok. Watch the video, :-) TRAVEL | August 1, 2007 Frugal Traveler | American Road Trip: From Wyoming to Montana on Foot By MATT GROSS Matt lives out his "Man vs. Wild" fantasies in the Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, a section of the Gallatin National Forest on the Wyoming-Montana border. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/travel/01frugal.html?ex=1186891200&en=a69f269426930e9f&ei=5070&emc=eta1 ---------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT THIS E-MAIL This e-mail was sent to you by a friend through NYTimes.com's E-mail This Article service. For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help at nytimes.com. NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018 Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 4 07:16:46 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 06:16:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms References: <46B3DB8D.5050409@opus40.org> Message-ID: <003301c7d688$fae50d80$f1fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> >> Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. >> >> Except that in that sphere the word is often shunned in favor of the >> image. >> Finnegan >> > You mean like Bob Grumman's poetry? Now, now, Mole--I don't so much shun the word in favor of the (graphic) image, I shun words alone in favor of a mixture of words and (graphic) images. --Bob From skip at louisiana.edu Sat Aug 4 14:45:49 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 13:45:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms In-Reply-To: <0284B7BE-D04C-458E-A703-2F4310CC8AAE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000001c7d6c7$b33e77c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Yes. (And a nice way of putting it.) But also it has to have torque, one that goes with the words and the concept. How can we know it until it's there? . . . or, rather, many times (in my experience) it's almost there (as it "simply" arrives) then I mess with it a bit. Skip "Ignore flattery. Distrust appreciation. Beware gratitude." --Richard Lapauvre -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 4:23 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms Same way as fine French cooking, the key to which (I've heard) is this: Reduce your sauces. Hal "I hate flowers. I only paint them because they're cheaper than models and they don't move." --Georgia O'Keefe Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 3, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Skip Fox wrote: In Consideration for the Lowly Aphorism: You're asking a lot for an aphorism! Basically, it would need two more components: what kind of intelligence is being bewitched (dullish, slavishly logical, dialectical, ideological, confused or anxiety ridden, etc.) and in the service of what kind of greater intelligence (I'll not even suggest, except to say I'd not kick Lawrence out of bed) would we suspend or cloak it? That's a lot of information. Aphorisms seem to be a special breed. I've written some, but damned if I know how they get to be how they are. Any thoughts? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 2:18 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] substitution of terms Which doesn't sufficiently distinguish poetry from advertising. Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 3, 2007, at 1:23 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language. --Ludwig Wittgenstein Poetry is an opening up to the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sun Aug 5 10:52:39 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:52:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> Out of curiosity, I checked Wiki and compiled this list of poets who've won MacArthur grants . One thing that surprised me was how many of these poets I'd never heard of. A. R. Ammons Joseph Brodsky Derek Walcott Robert Penn Warren Brad Leithauser A.K. Ramanujan Robert Hass Charles Simic Galway Kinnell John Ashbery Daryl Hine Jay Wright Douglas Crase Richard Kenney Mark Strand May Swenson Allen Grossman Jorie Graham John Hollander Alice Fulton Eleanor Wilner Amy Clampitt Irving Feldman Thom Gunn Ann Lauterbach Jim Powell Adrienne Rich Sandra Cisneros Richard Howard Thylias Moss Susan Stewart Linda Bierds Edward Hirsch Ishmael Reed Campbell McGrath Anne Carson Lucia M. Perillo C. D. Wright Years in which no poet won a MacArthur Grant: 1982, 1988, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006 ... a distressing trend? And if we were to take a vote on who the least deserving MacArthur recipient was, who would win? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Sun Aug 5 21:47:47 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:47:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> References: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> Message-ID: <46B67DC3.9000000@myuw.net> TheOldMole wrote: > > And if we were to take a vote on who the least deserving MacArthur > recipient was, who would win? > easy answer: Brad Leithauser From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 6 07:51:02 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 06:51:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets References: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> <46B67DC3.9000000@myuw.net> Message-ID: <001201c7d820$12d01b90$6dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> > easy answer: Brad Leithauser Well, there are two or three on the list unfamiliar to me, and I agree that Leithauser would be a good answer, but I don't think any but two or three can be said to be significantly less mediocre than all the others on the list. Now, how about a comparison of Pulitzer Prize Poets, Poet Laureates and MacArthur Poets--which group's poetry is best, which worst? --Bob G. From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 6 18:19:05 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:19:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> References: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8C9A68EEF999798-CA8-86A9@webmail-md12.sysops.aol.com> I probably read too much contemporary poetry, but only Jim Powell & AK Ramanujan's names bring nothing to mind. Ammons, Swenson, Clampitt, Brodsky, Penn Warren,?Gunn are dead...getting less contemporary by the day. Daryl Hine, is he?alive? His name is associated with the decline of Poetry magazine, making?it?into haven for academic & safe?poetry.?(And things weren't much batter when Nims then Parisi were at the helm. Happily, under Wiman's tenure, it's now?a much better magazine.) Edward Hirsch is a mover & shaker in poetry world?and he got the top job at the Guggeheim Foundation. Asbery, Strand, Rich, Simic, Walcott, Hass, Kinnell: This crew is always winning some prize or another. Leithauser & Kenney would be represent?New Formalists. New formalism had 'the buzz' for a time. Kenney was Yale Younger Poet award winner. Leithauser reviews poetry fairly often for The New York Times Book Review section. He's also published a few novels. Richard Howard and John Hollander?are more in? the old formalist vein. Howard translated most Cioran's aphoristic philosophy?from the French. Hollander has written a lot of criticism. Both have long rap sheets of literary credentials. Jorie Graham &?Alice Fulton are?both doing some interesting and ambitious things in their poetry, along with Anne Carson who was a very?hot property a few years ago?and on everyone's reading list (& she's the only Canadian, I think...and a Classicist to boot). Plus C.D. Wright, Eleanor Wilner and Susan Stewart and you get?a very good group of some of our leading women poets. Thylias Moss and Sandra Cisneros represent multi-cultural selection, and have Odder choices: Ishmael Reed?seems?to?publish less poetry these days. Maybe he got it for what he did, more than what he's doing. He is/was a?publisher, too. Jay Wright's work?is little known, both are at Yale (what makes me think Harold Bloom is one of the pickers?) Moss, Reed and Jay Wright are the three African American's on the list. Allen Grossman is better known as thinker about poetry (Sumna Lyrica)?than as a poet. Linda Bierds?had?early success with?a?big book prize (Whitman prize,?I?think)?but she's not someone you hear much about. Douglas Crase...I read an early book of his called The Revisionist, but I think of him now as obscure?New York?poet who has an Ashbery connection.?I don't know that he's published a second book. (I think he wrote good memoir piece on James Schuyler that I read too...but I might be thinking of someone else.) Ann Lauterbach has the Ashbery imprimatur too. Lucia Perillo has won a couple of poetry awards and is known for writing about her struggles with MS (see Body Mutinies). Irving Feldman has been around a long time. Happy to see him on a list like this. He edited a great little anthology of short-short fiction, I believe. Worst of the lot: I find myself agreeing with Jason. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:52 am Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Out of curiosity, I checked Wiki and compiled this list of poets who've won MacArthur grants . One thing that surprised me was how many of these poets I'd never heard of.? ? A. R. Ammons? Joseph Brodsky? Derek Walcott? Robert Penn Warren? Brad Leithauser? A.K. Ramanujan? Robert Hass? Charles Simic? Galway Kinnell? John Ashbery? Daryl Hine? Jay Wright? Douglas Crase? Richard Kenney? Mark Strand? May Swenson? Allen Grossman? Jorie Graham? John Hollander? Alice Fulton? Eleanor Wilner? Amy Clampitt? Irving Feldman? Thom Gunn? Ann Lauterbach? Jim Powell? Adrienne Rich? Sandra Cisneros? Richard Howard? Thylias Moss? Susan Stewart? Linda Bierds? Edward Hirsch? Ishmael Reed? Campbell McGrath? Anne Carson? Lucia M. Perillo? C. D. Wright? ? Years in which no poet won a MacArthur Grant: 1982, 1988, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006 ... a distressing trend?? ? And if we were to take a vote on who the least deserving MacArthur recipient was, who would win?? ? -- Tad Richards? http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/? http://opusforty.blogspot.com/? ? _______________________________________________? New-Poetry mailing list? New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu? http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Aug 6 18:30:46 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:30:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: The one thread I see running through here is that most of these folks have or had New York publishers, which means that the Mac Arthur people are just as lazy as most other selectors for the big prizes. Many of these people are deserving, but there are many other poets just as gifted and just as deserving--and in much greater need of the money than say Mark Strand, Robert Hass or Jorie Graham. I remember that I cheered when Lucia Perillo won because I like her early work, up thorugh "The Oldest Map With the Name America" a great deal. Jay Wright is consistently inventive and challenging and his work has been consistently overlooked. But so many of these people seem to have been selected because it was the only prize they hadn't won. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Mon Aug 6 18:34:03 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:34:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great observation. I think it's the corporate concept of risk; publishers and award providers seem to want to work with the established, regular names always. What can be done about this? ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:31 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets The one thread I see running through here is that most of these folks have or had New York publishers, which means that the Mac Arthur people are just as lazy as most other selectors for the big prizes. Many of these people are deserving, but there are many other poets just as gifted and just as deserving--and in much greater need of the money than say Mark Strand, Robert Hass or Jorie Graham. I remember that I cheered when Lucia Perillo won because I like her early work, up thorugh "The Oldest Map With the Name America" a great deal. Jay Wright is consistently inventive and challenging and his work has been consistently overlooked. But so many of these people seem to have been selected because it was the only prize they hadn't won. ________________________________ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Aug 6 18:35:54 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:35:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: Beats me. I'm just a bitter small press poet. ;-) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 6 18:52:37 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 00:52:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets References: <46B5E437.1010100@opus40.org> <8C9A68EEF999798-CA8-86A9@webmail-md12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00a201c7d87c$7cfc6ad0$84a83852@ANNY> I never doubted my preference for this list, and James' message shows why From: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:19 AM I probably read too much contemporary poetry, but only Jim Powell & AK Ramanujan's names bring nothing to mind. Ammons, Swenson, Clampitt, Brodsky, Penn Warren, Gunn are dead...getting less contemporary by the day. Daryl Hine, is he alive? His name is associated with the decline of Poetry magazine, making it into haven for academic & safe poetry. (And things weren't much batter when Nims then Parisi were at the helm. Happily, under Wiman's tenure, it's now a much better magazine.) Edward Hirsch is a mover & shaker in poetry world and he got the top job at the Guggeheim Foundation. Asbery, Strand, Rich, Simic, Walcott, Hass, Kinnell: This crew is always winning some prize or another. Leithauser & Kenney would be represent New Formalists. New formalism had 'the buzz' for a time. Kenney was Yale Younger Poet award winner. Leithauser reviews poetry fairly often for The New York Times Book Review section. He's also published a few novels. Richard Howard and John Hollander are more in the old formalist vein. Howard translated most Cioran's aphoristic philosophy from the French. Hollander has written a lot of criticism. Both have long rap sheets of literary credentials. Jorie Graham & Alice Fulton are both doing some interesting and ambitious things in their poetry, along with Anne Carson who was a very hot property a few years ago and on everyone's reading list (& she's the only Canadian, I think...and a Classicist to boot). Plus C.D. Wright, Eleanor Wilner and Susan Stewart and you get a very good group of some of our leading women poets. Thylias Moss and Sandra Cisneros represent multi-cultural selection, and have Odder choices: Ishmael Reed seems to publish less poetry these days. Maybe he got it for what he did, more than what he's doing. He is/was a publisher, too. Jay Wright's work is little known, both are at Yale (what makes me think Harold Bloom is one of the pickers?) Moss, Reed and Jay Wright are the three African American's on the list. Allen Grossman is better known as thinker about poetry (Sumna Lyrica) than as a poet. Linda Bierds had early success with a big book prize (Whitman prize, I think) but she's not someone you hear much about. Douglas Crase...I read an early book of his called The Revisionist, but I think of him now as obscure New York poet who has an Ashbery connection. I don't know that he's published a second book. (I think he wrote good memoir piece on James Schuyler that I read too...but I might be thinking of someone else.) Ann Lauterbach has the Ashbery imprimatur too. Lucia Perillo has won a couple of poetry awards and is known for writing about her struggles with MS (see Body Mutinies). Irving Feldman has been around a long time. Happy to see him on a list like this. He edited a great little anthology of short-short fiction, I believe. Worst of the lot: I find myself agreeing with Jason. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: TheOldMole Bcc: jforjames at aol.com Sent: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:52 am Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Out of curiosity, I checked Wiki and compiled this list of poets who've won MacArthur grants . One thing that surprised me was how many of these poets I'd never heard of. A. R. Ammons Joseph Brodsky Derek Walcott Robert Penn Warren Brad Leithauser A.K. Ramanujan Robert Hass Charles Simic Galway Kinnell John Ashbery Daryl Hine Jay Wright Douglas Crase Richard Kenney Mark Strand May Swenson Allen Grossman Jorie Graham John Hollander Alice Fulton Eleanor Wilner Amy Clampitt Irving Feldman Thom Gunn Ann Lauterbach Jim Powell Adrienne Rich Sandra Cisneros Richard Howard Thylias Moss Susan Stewart Linda Bierds Edward Hirsch Ishmael Reed Campbell McGrath Anne Carson Lucia M. Perillo C. D. Wright Years in which no poet won a MacArthur Grant: 1982, 1988, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006 ... a distressing trend? And if we were to take a vote on who the least deserving MacArthur recipient was, who would win? -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 6 20:03:09 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 19:03:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets References: Message-ID: <050701c7d886$58e37f30$6dfad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I do think the MacArthur grants sometimes go to people doing good work, but two things particularly irk me about them. The first is that when the foundation was new, I read an article about it that described how it was going to hunt for "mavericks" to support. They may have tried to do this for a year or two, but they soon became just another mainstream granter. But, yow, wouldn't it be great if just ONE grants-bestower actually hunted for unknowns doing important work instead of just keeping track of whom the other grants-bestowers and prize-givers were handing out money to? And, occasionally, checking with spokesperons for victim groups for the names of mediocre culturateurs (as I call contributors to culture) to give money to, for the sake of social-correctness brownie points. The other may not be the fault of the MacArthur people: the fact that recipients of their grants are called "geniuses." I prefer that term to be reserved for much greater culturateurs (as I call contributors to culture) than all but a handful of their grants have gone to. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 6 19:21:47 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:21:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7d880$958d08d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Or should anything be done about it? Is that too radical to suggest? I mean, the one thing I can see that is done is small press (including web) publishing. Sometimes people whose artistic tastes we like step into semi-official venues for publishing (outside NY, but in good universities, etc.) and that becomes not only a viable outlet but one respected by a wider audience (largely academic, but so what?) as well. The fact that fame flies elsewhere isn't very new. I have about three anthologies titled of Best Poems of ( X-year), all in the 1930s, and I love to show their tables of contents to young poets and see how many names we can recognize. They get about 1 a page. I get about 2, maybe a bit more. (Out of 7 or 8! And it's amazing who they miss: Stevens, Williams, Zukofsky, Pound. And the names we recognize: Sandburg, Millay, Teasdale.) Point is of course the world is fickle, and that seems to include the artistic/cultural world although we might expect otherwise of it, as we might expect academic humanists to be human (less bullying, brash, rapacious, egotistical, etc. I.e., is Harold Bloom a humanist in the full sense of the word?). Most other lists of prizes will yield the same. What can be done, besides the above (become an editor at Middle-America University Press or whatever)? Then why not relish what we have? We learn of books and poets through friends, students, teachers, lists like this. We have access to a wide range of work (perhaps the widest ever), and the joy of discovery without the sense that we "should" like something because a top critic or prestigious editor says we should. And the silence for ourselves? Perhaps it's not deserved; perhaps it is. Regardless, we can practice what we do without certain sets of expectations and presumed attentiveness intruding upon us. (Maybe I should say this only about myself. I think if I had had better success in the world's terms, I wouldn't be writing what I am now. "Rabbit ears," they call it when a baseball pitcher is susceptible to be thrown off by crowd noise. I think I would have been self-consciousness in un-useful ways.) As it is, we have ready access to the buying of books and publishing of poetry. And there are hundreds of interesting poets. Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before them I am silent.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sigauke, Emmanuel Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 5:34 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Great observation. I think it's the corporate concept of risk; publishers and award providers seem to want to work with the established, regular names always. What can be done about this? _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:31 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets The one thread I see running through here is that most of these folks have or had New York publishers, which means that the Mac Arthur people are just as lazy as most other selectors for the big prizes. Many of these people are deserving, but there are many other poets just as gifted and just as deserving--and in much greater need of the money than say Mark Strand, Robert Hass or Jorie Graham. I remember that I cheered when Lucia Perillo won because I like her early work, up thorugh "The Oldest Map With the Name America" a great deal. Jay Wright is consistently inventive and challenging and his work has been consistently overlooked. But so many of these people seem to have been selected because it was the only prize they hadn't won. _____ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 6 21:05:17 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:05:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Longenbach reviews a selection of poetry books Message-ID: My friend Dennis noticed this nifty paragraph from the James Longenbach review.... Most of Bellows?s poems tell one story, rather than intertwining several, but these lines are nonetheless typical of his formal procedures. The lines are so long that they rarely cut against the sentences, shaping the syntax; as a result, the poems can settle a bit comfortably into the single-minded task of storytelling. The stories are gripping, to be sure, but stories become poems when they?re written by someone who likes to think about a sentence for a really long time, rearranging it, troubling it, rather than writing another one. What we call form ? lines, rhymes, leaps ? is a way of keeping down production. In a message dated 8/1/2007 3:30:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames writes: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/books/review/Longenbach-t.html?ex=118611360 0&en=0b54fd636f91b15c&ei=5070_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/books/review/Longenbach-t.html?ex=1186113600&en=0b54fd636f91b15c&ei=5070) FYI... recent James Longenbach review in NYTimes Book Review. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Aug 6 21:13:18 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:13:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: Skip is exactly right. My only gripe about these awards is that they too often go to the guy just like the guy who won it last year. The MacArthur is a nice chunk of change and it would be nice to see it go to someone who could really use the money to live and get some work done instead of someone who's just going to buy another Roth and another three months in Italy with it. I've never bought a book because the writer won a MacArthur, but I would like to think that some truly extraordinary work came about because of the writer receiving a MacArthur. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 6 21:30:26 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:30:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: I tried to get every winner's name into that last post, but I realize I missed Campbell McGrath. He's the fashionable representative of the speaker-driven lyric sometimes referred to as ultra-talk. I lot of bases are touched with this list. (Though the langpo gang has been shut out.) Perhaps the MacArthurs should be 'genus grants'. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Aug 6 21:53:58 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:53:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46B7D0B6.3010309@opus40.org> Is McGrath the Brooks Brothes guy? JforJames at aol.com wrote: > I tried to get every winner's name into that last post, but I realize > I missed Campbell McGrath. He's the fashionable representative of the > speaker-driven lyric sometimes referred to as ultra-talk. > I lot of bases are touched with this list. (Though the langpo gang has > been shut out.) Perhaps the > MacArthurs should be 'genus grants'. > Finnegan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Mon Aug 6 21:55:34 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:55:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets References: Message-ID: So I I guess these are the books to browse in Borders/B&N and let the smaller guys get all the sales. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Mon 8/6/2007 6:13 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Skip is exactly right. My only gripe about these awards is that they too often go to the guy just like the guy who won it last year. The MacArthur is a nice chunk of change and it would be nice to see it go to someone who could really use the money to live and get some work done instead of someone who's just going to buy another Roth and another three months in Italy with it. I've never bought a book because the writer won a MacArthur, but I would like to think that some truly extraordinary work came about because of the writer receiving a MacArthur. ________________________________ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4021 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 6 23:01:53 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:01:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets References: Message-ID: <003f01c7d89f$50c05490$32fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I tried to get every winner's name into that last post, but I realize I missed Campbell McGrath. He's the fashionable representative of the speaker-driven lyric sometimes referred to as ultra-talk. I lot of bases are touched with this list. (Though the langpo gang has been shut out.) Perhaps the MacArthurs should be 'genus grants'. Finnegan Dang, James, haven't you learned anything from me after all this time I've been saying the same thing over and over again here? The vispo gang has been shut out, too. Ditto the sound poetry people, and the performance poets. Cyber-poetry? Don't make me laugh. No bases touched, really, the one representing conventional solitextual (solely textual) poetry using no poetic device not in wide use fifty years ago. --Bob. saying it again. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Aug 6 22:25:43 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:25:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: McGrath teaches at FIU in Miami. The "Brooks Brothers guy" is Spencer Reece, who got a lot of attention for a book that was half-good and half throwaway. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at voicesnet.org Mon Aug 6 23:04:11 2007 From: lists at voicesnet.org (Lists) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:04:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] VoicesNet Poetry Competition and Web Community Message-ID: Hi everybody, I am Jeff Humphrey and I am an Internet Poetry Advocate. I run the popular Poetry website at www.VoicesNet.com. We have online competitions, forums, author profiles, character poets, a massive poems database, games, an Info-Portal, and much more. All of our feature programs are free to site visitors and we have a very active community of writers and readers. Please stop by and check out what I am trying to accomplish and send me any suggestions at forums at voicesnet.org. www.VoicesNet.com has become a special place on the Net and with your input, I am hoping that it gets a lot better. Thanks, Jeff Humphrey voicesnet.com From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Tue Aug 7 04:41:08 2007 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 08:41:08 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] I.S. August In-Reply-To: <200708061600.l76G0EKR024987@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2007/08/august.html "Intercapillary Space" is a rolling blog-magazine of multiple formed matters, based in the UK. POEMS [#] Helen Macdonald: "Between her wings the novitiate" [#] Philip Hammial: HOW DOES YOUR GARDEN [#] Alistair Noon: Postcards from Home [#] Carrie Etter: Anthro- [#] James Wilkes: Two films [#] Francis Raven: I Thought This Was Better [#] Richard Makin: Nine Poems from Erratum's Lip [#] Tina Bass: "not diligent" and Bare [#] Tina Bass: Emmenogogue [#] Dee McMahon: Satiety [#] Changming Yuan: Earthling Calling ARTICLES [#] Michael Peverett: John Wilkinson's Lake Shore Drive annotated [#] Ralph Hawkins: Memory/Nostalgia/Perception and the Typewriter: Aram Saroyan's Complete Minimal Poems [#] David Berridge: MAKING SEASONS: Kristin Prevallet's [I, AFTERLIFE] [ESSAY IN MOURNING TIME] [#] Laura Steele: Coils: Zukofsky's Bottom: On Shakespeare [#] Edmund Hardy: What The Razor Knew: Ken Edwards' No Public Language REVIEWS [#] Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Nest [#] Marianne Morris, A NEW BOOK FROM BARQUE PRESS, WHICH THEY WILL PROBABLY NOT PRINT [#] Deborah Meadows, involutia [#] Mark Dickinson, Littoral [#] Ken Edwards, Bird Migration in the 21st Century [#] Mary Coghill, Designed To Fade [#] Peter Hughes, Minor Yours and Sound Signals Advising Presence [#] Charles Reznikoff, Holocaust [#] Susan Howe, The Midnight READINGS [#] Poetical Histories 1 - Nicholas Moore [#] Poetical Histories 2 - J. H. Prynne [#] Denise Riley, Shantung [#] Robert Browning, Pauline NEW "INTERCAPILLARY" E-BOOKS [#] Peter Hughes: Berlioz [#] Carol Watts: alphabetise PLUS [#] What blurbs and reviews are really saying [#] Peter Riley Blog Symposium _________________________________________________________________ Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live - http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 7 14:14:51 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:14:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7d91e$df78f140$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> To the issue that another drawback of our times is that only certai9n types of poetry show up in major bookstores (Emmanuel's good point): Of course, the other problem being out of the mainstream is distribution. I came of poetry age in rural areas in the 60s. I would find out about poets through what people I respected told me. Then what the poets wrote (as the Statements section in the back of Donald Allen's anthology when Creeley and others told the reader to read Pound, and Pound lead in all directions, even when he didn't). Discovery was non-mainstream as was distribution. I was given an anthology, then when I went thru used book stores (both in small towns and big cities) would check out more of those included and by presses I had read about and bought what I could (which was more than I could afford, being poor). It's so much easier today to hear about and read types of poetry that hit us hard and sure. Web-magazines, primarily, are one of the places I learn about new writers. Then I can google them, uncover their "associates" (whatever), and another lovely reticulating matrix leads out from there. Then there's Small Press Distribution and Amazon at fingertip. (I don't even know how you got books that weren't in front of you--in stores or libraries--in the 1960s. I cannot remember ordering anything at the time.) I don't mean to be myopically sanguine about the condition for those not santicified. It is tough seeing good work ignored and what we consider superficial displays of period style lauded. (But when has that been new? Vide Pope's The Dunciad.) But we for the most part chose the way we are, to follow what we felt to be the trail to a lifetime's writing. We couldn't see falsifying that for cheap gains. Those who chose to try to become another Hass or whoever have their rewards; I don't think that they are "of a kind" with mine. I feel less bad for the youngster in the middle of nowhere who looks for what he or she doesn't even know is there than I once did. Now so much is available, especially for readers and writers, that only few would have difficulty discovering works that might significantly impact them. Even through the 70s it was difficult, until Bookslinger and a few other distribution possibilities like the used Am Here Books catalogues. (And listserves like this should not go unmentioned.) The situation is only really hard on writers like Bernadette Mayer (from whom so many poets have learned so much and while they sit on professorships, she sits in her kitchen), or maybe those cast out of positions where they might have had some influence on the awareness of others ("publish or perish" means publish in certain presses" as well), etc. For those who change directions to meet the style du jour, we're better off without them, to sound terribly American, but think of what their praise or criticism or opinions and stories would mean to you if they had stayed and you felt you had to listen. (They would embarrass me . . . for them.) Anyway, if some of us got too public, we'd probably have Bill O'Reilly on our ass, and there's is no intelligently civil way I can imagine dealing with that man while being kind at the same time. -----Original Message----- From: Sigauke, Emmanuel [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sigauke, Emmanuel Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:56 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets So I I guess these are the books to browse in Borders/B&N and let the smaller guys get all the sales. _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Mon 8/6/2007 6:13 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Skip is exactly right. My only gripe about these awards is that they too often go to the guy just like the guy who won it last year. The MacArthur is a nice chunk of change and it would be nice to see it go to someone who could really use the money to live and get some work done instead of someone who's just going to buy another Roth and another three months in Italy with it. I've never bought a book because the writer won a MacArthur, but I would like to think that some truly extraordinary work came about because of the writer receiving a MacArthur. _____ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 8416 bytes Desc: not available URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Aug 7 14:32:43 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:32:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets Message-ID: In a message dated 8/7/2007 2:15:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, skip at louisiana.edu writes: So I I guess these are the books to browse in Borders/B&N and let the smaller guys get all the sales. Buy the books that delight you, interest you, pique your curiosity, that keep you awake at night. I have books by over half the MacArthur poets and a lot of the fiction writers. I was jsut pointing out that there is a geographic bias (as there has always been) when it comes to selecting these winners. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 16:17:26 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92739.27505.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Grace Cavalieri interviewed me ? http://www.loc.gov/poetry/avfiles/poet-poem-amy-king.mp3 Poets in ?The Poet and the Poem? series ---> [http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html] Billy Collins Tory Dent Rita Dove Rita Dove and Henry Taylor Cornelius Eady Claudia Emerson Daniel Mark Epstein Nick Flynn David Gewanter Maria M. Gillan Brian Gilmore and Brandon D. Johnson Daniela Gioseffi Michael S. Glaser Louise Gl?ck Patricia Gray Donald Hall Robert Hass Jane Hirshfield Major Jackson Reuben Jackson Katia Kapovich Dolores Kendrick Myong-Hee Kim, Barbara Goldberg, Sibbie O'Sullivan, and Kathi Wolfe Amy King Ted Kooser Stanley Kunitz Laurie Lamon Merill Leffler Herbert Woodward Martin Hope Maxwell-Snyder and Rob Carney Campbell McGrath Heather McHugh W.S. Merwin E. Ethelbert Miller Daniel Thomas Moran Quique Avil?s James H. Beall Anne Becker, Ernie Wormwood, Moira Egan and Lyn Lifshin Jody Bolz, Sarah Browning, Donna Deniz? and Judith McCombs George Bilgere Fleda Brown and W.D. Snodgrass Kenneth Carroll Michael Collier Library of Congress http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 7 17:07:37 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:07:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo Message-ID: _http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2007summer/vallejo.shtml_ (http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2007summer/vallejo.shtml) AN EGO STRONG ENOUGH TO LIVE: TRANSLATING C?SAR VALLEJO by Clayton Eshleman Editor's Note: In January 2007, C?sar Vallejo's The Complete Poetry: A Bilingual Edition, edited and translated by Clayton Eshleman, was released by University of California Press (reviewed in our Spring 2007 Print Issue). In the following talk, originally given at Michael Heim?s translation seminar at UCLA in February 2007, he discusses the psychic struggle and lasting impact of translating Vallejo's uniquely challenging work. By the time I completed a third draft of C?sar Vallejo?s ?Human Poems,? in Kyoto, Japan, in 1963, I felt that I was hardly any further ahead with the project than I had been at the beginning. By insisting on trying to get everything right, I kept running up against dead end after dead end. This word was not in any dictionary. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Tue Aug 7 17:15:00 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:15:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem In-Reply-To: <92739.27505.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <92739.27505.qm@web83310.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great poems, Amy! You see, that's how I discover my poets, making Borders trips worthwhile. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of amy king Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:17 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem Grace Cavalieri interviewed me - http://www.loc.gov/poetry/avfiles/poet-poem-amy-king.mp3 Poets in "The Poet and the Poem" series ---> [http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html ] Billy Collins Tory Dent Rita Dove Rita Dove and Henry Taylor Cornelius Eady Claudia Emerson Daniel Mark Epstein Nick Flynn David Gewanter Maria M. Gillan Brian Gilmore and Brandon D. Johnson Daniela Gioseffi Michael S. Glaser Louise Gl?ck Patricia Gray Donald Hall Robert Hass Jane Hirshfield Major Jackson Reuben Jackson Katia Kapovich Dolores Kendrick Myong-Hee Kim, Barbara Goldberg, Sibbie O'Sullivan, and Kathi Wolfe Amy King Ted Kooser Stanley Kunitz Laurie Lamon Merill Leffler Herbert Woodward Martin Hope Maxwell-Snyder and Rob Carney Campbell McGrath Heather McHugh W.S. Merwin E. Ethelbert Miller Daniel Thomas Moran Quique Avil?s James H. Beall Anne Becker, Ernie Wormwood, Moira Egan and Lyn Lifshin Jody Bolz, Sarah Browning, Donna Deniz? and Judith McCombs George Bilgere Fleda Brown and W.D. Snodgrass Kenneth Carroll Michael Collier Library of Congress http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html ________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 17:23:05 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <472922.79373.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Glad you enjoyed, Emmanuel! And thanks to all for the birthday well wishes! I truly benefited ... I think this was the best bday ever, hands down! Best, Amy "Sigauke, Emmanuel " wrote: Great poems, Amy! You see, that's how I discover my poets, making Borders trips worthwhile. --------------------------------- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of amy king Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:17 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Library of Congress - The Poet and the Poem Grace Cavalieri interviewed me ? http://www.loc.gov/poetry/avfiles/poet-poem-amy-king.mp3 Poets in ?The Poet and the Poem? series ---> [http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html] Billy Collins Tory Dent Rita Dove Rita Dove and Henry Taylor Cornelius Eady Claudia Emerson Daniel Mark Epstein Nick Flynn David Gewanter Maria M. Gillan Brian Gilmore and Brandon D. Johnson Daniela Gioseffi Michael S. Glaser Louise Gl?ck Patricia Gray Donald Hall Robert Hass Jane Hirshfield Major Jackson Reuben Jackson Katia Kapovich Dolores Kendrick Myong-Hee Kim, Barbara Goldberg, Sibbie O'Sullivan, and Kathi Wolfe Amy King Ted Kooser Stanley Kunitz Laurie Lamon Merill Leffler Herbert Woodward Martin Hope Maxwell-Snyder and Rob Carney Campbell McGrath Heather McHugh W.S. Merwin E. Ethelbert Miller Daniel Thomas Moran Quique Avil?s James H. Beall Anne Becker, Ernie Wormwood, Moira Egan and Lyn Lifshin Jody Bolz, Sarah Browning, Donna Deniz? and Judith McCombs George Bilgere Fleda Brown and W.D. Snodgrass Kenneth Carroll Michael Collier Library of Congress http://www.loc.gov/poetry/poetpoem.html --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 7 17:24:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 23:24:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo References: Message-ID: <007b01c7d939$60e4a930$21e03652@ANNY> "This word was not in any dictionary." that is how I feel when I try to translate. As if my hands were tied, that is the impression, my mind sort of reduced, and then you have to compromise: "better than nothing" and you go on. But sometimes the words just come out perfect, you had to cut down the previous alliteration and here it comes, unexpected, while you are typing it. You are not respecting the rhythm but you do have an alliteration a couple of lines down, and the meaning, the sense of the words is safe. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:07 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo http://www.raintaxi.com/online/2007summer/vallejo.shtml AN EGO STRONG ENOUGH TO LIVE: TRANSLATING C?SAR VALLEJO by Clayton Eshleman Editor's Note: In January 2007, C?sar Vallejo's The Complete Poetry: A Bilingual Edition, edited and translated by Clayton Eshleman, was released by University of California Press (reviewed in our Spring 2007 Print Issue). In the following talk, originally given at Michael Heim?s translation seminar at UCLA in February 2007, he discusses the psychic struggle and lasting impact of translating Vallejo's uniquely challenging work. By the time I completed a third draft of C?sar Vallejo?s ?Human Poems,? in Kyoto, Japan, in 1963, I felt that I was hardly any further ahead with the project than I had been at the beginning. By insisting on trying to get everything right, I kept running up against dead end after dead end. This word was not in any dictionary. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 7 17:29:34 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:29:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo Message-ID: In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:25:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: "This word was not in any dictionary." Anny, when I read that sentence it seemed to be the title of a poem, a universal one. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 7 17:48:10 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:48:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As in "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was not in any dictionary"? Hal "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 7, 2007, at 4:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:25:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > "This word was not in any dictionary." > > Anny, when I read that sentence it seemed to be the title of a > poem, a universal one. > Finnegan > > > > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 7 18:19:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 00:19:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo References: Message-ID: <002601c7d941$16e31170$21e03652@ANNY> INTELLIGENCE, GIVE ME Intelligence, give me the exact name of things! I want my word to be the thing itself, created by my soul a second time. So that those who do not know them can go to the things through me, all those who have forgotten them can go to the things through me, all those who love them can go to the things through me. Intelligence, give me the exact name, and your name and theirs and mine, for things! Juan Ram?n Jim?nez Translated by Robert Bly ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo As in "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was not in any dictionary"? Hal "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 7, 2007, at 4:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:25:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: "This word was not in any dictionary." Anny, when I read that sentence it seemed to be the title of a poem, a universal one. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 7 18:42:15 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:42:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo Message-ID: There is all the poetry in the world in a name. It is a poem which the mass of men hear and read. What is poetry in the common sense, but a hearing of such jingling names? I want nothing better than a good word. The name of a thing may easily be more than the thing itself to me. --Henry David Thoreau. 1853. ?A Yankee in Canada.? in The Writings of Henry David Thoreau.1906. Houghton Mifflin. v.5, p.20. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Tue Aug 7 18:42:40 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:42:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo In-Reply-To: <002601c7d941$16e31170$21e03652@ANNY> References: <002601c7d941$16e31170$21e03652@ANNY> Message-ID: Dear Poets, This poem is looking for a home; can someone offer an honest (not necessarily detailed) response? I'm sorry if it's too long. ROCKS DANCING IN THE MOON When I lift my arms the hill lifts his, and mother says I need to see a n'anga, perhaps I am a medium awaiting the ripe day when an ancestor will claim his throne. This happens at night - when the moon is grinning when I am not at the village playground nights of hide-and-seek, find-and-fix games; those mother-and-I-only nights when baba stays all night at the beer gathering. Mother sits inside our hut, shelling nuts and outside, in the embrace of moonlight, I squint at the hill. The hill glares back and near the entrance to a cave two rocks, tall, stand waving back at me, smiling at the moon. I bend, get on my knees even and they bend too, get on their knees even. I lean to one side, they lean too, against each other grinning still; pouting at me and at the moon. So I laugh, and mother springs up, storms outside to seal my mouth, but with the eyes open I don't want to stop laughing as long as the rocks don't stop sagging their stomaches a dance for me a lone boy bathing in the moon whose water washes all: hills and their rocks, mothers and their sons. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:20 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo INTELLIGENCE, GIVE ME Intelligence, give me the exact name of things! I want my word to be the thing itself, created by my soul a second time. So that those who do not know them can go to the things through me, all those who have forgotten them can go to the things through me, all those who love them can go to the things through me... Intelligence, give me the exact name, and your name and theirs and mine, for things! Juan Ram?n Jim?nez Translated by Robert Bly ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Eshleman on the travails of translating Vallejo As in "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was not in any dictionary"? Hal "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 7, 2007, at 4:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:25:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: "This word was not in any dictionary." Anny, when I read that sentence it seemed to be the title of a poem, a universal one. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 7 20:04:17 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] a word not in any dictionary In-Reply-To: <200708072145.l77LjOKR030281@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <558298.89091.qm@web35502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My Francophilic and fragmentary contribution: "The line, which from several words creates a total word, new, foreign to the language and as if incantatory..." -- Mallarme, "Crise de vers". How many others are there in the same vein? Many, many. Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 08:34:36 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:34:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MacArthur Poets In-Reply-To: <000001c7d880$958d08d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7d880$958d08d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: On 8/6/07, Skip Fox wrote: > Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a > writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer > hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very > deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before > them I am silent.) > Not to go way off topic, but I have thought the same thing about Mayer-- i.e., why she isn't on the faculty of a really top notch University and paid very, very well. She is after all not only an extraordinarily accomplished poet, she also has that rep for being a particularly gifted teacher. *sigh* Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 8 10:23:02 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:23:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer References: <000001c7d880$958d08d0$f4954682@win.louisiana .edu> Message-ID: <006901c7d9c7$a32049b0$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before them I am silent.) Not to go way off topic, but I have thought the same thing about Mayer-- i.e., why she isn't on the faculty of a really top notch University and paid very, very well. She is after all not only an extraordinarily accomplished poet, she also has that rep for being a particularly gifted teacher. *sigh* Suzanne Burns I thought she had clout as a first generation language poet. That should get her into a lot of universities. Did she offend someone in language poetry? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 09:43:47 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:43:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <006901c7d9c7$a32049b0$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <006901c7d9c7$a32049b0$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: To the best of my knowledge, she has been teaching workshops at St Mark's, as well as writing and editing. I think I heard also that she was teaching a workshop out of her home in NYC. But I haven't heard anything about her teaching at a university-- nor did I know that financial worries were an issue. I hope I misunderstood the original post. It is true though that "deserving, recognized, and influential" does not necessarily lead to "rewarded". That's just life I guess. :-( Suzanne On 8/8/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a > writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer > hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very > deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before > them I am silent.) > > > > Not to go way off topic, but I have thought the same thing about Mayer-- > i.e., why she isn't on the faculty of a really top notch University and > paid very, very well. She is after all not only an extraordinarily > accomplished poet, she also has that rep for being a particularly gifted > teacher. *sigh* > > Suzanne Burns > > I thought she had clout as a first generation language poet. That should > get her into a lot of universities. Did she offend someone in language > poetry? > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 8 11:41:44 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:41:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer References: <006901c7d9c7$a32049b0$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007801c7d9d2$a16ca540$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> It is true though that "deserving, recognized, and influential" does not necessarily lead to "rewarded". That's just life I guess. :-( Yikes, I guess I'd better give up my hope of rising out of substitute teaching. The only one of those three adjectives that may apply to me is the first! --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 8 14:11:03 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:11:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <007801c7d9d2$a16ca540$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <001e01c7d9e7$816aee90$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:42 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer It is true though that "deserving, recognized, and influential" does not necessarily lead to "rewarded". That's just life I guess. :-( Yikes, I guess I'd better give up my hope of rising out of substitute teaching. The only one of those three adjectives that may apply to me is the first! --Bob Should you give up all hope? Of course you should, Bob. Didn't you read the sign over the entrance when we passed through? skip -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 8 14:28:12 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:28:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <006901c7d9c7$a32049b0$e4fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000001c7d9e9$e6e45700$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:23 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before them I am silent.) Not to go way off topic, but I have thought the same thing about Mayer-- i.e., why she isn't on the faculty of a really top notch University and paid very, very well. She is after all not only an extraordinarily accomplished poet, she also has that rep for being a particularly gifted teacher. *sigh* Suzanne Burns I thought she had clout as a first generation language poet. That should get her into a lot of universities. Did she offend someone in language poetry? --Bob More people would think about her as 2nd generation New York. She taught workshops that Charles Bernstein and Bruce Andrews attended at St. Mark's and turned him onto a lot of French theorists (I hear). Her writing might seem "Language-y" at times, but I guess she'd more closely identify with Creeley's "I mean to mean" than a too non-referential poetics. But that's my guess. But then this item, below, emphasizes more Mayer's interrogation of language referentiality. http://home.jps.net/~nada/mayer8.htm (It might be restricted.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 8 14:30:41 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:30:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c7d9ea$3f4db3a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I think she left NYC for good several years back and bought a house upstate with the proceeds of selling her papers to San Diego. She teaches classes at here house, I think, when she can get students. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Suzanne Burns Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:44 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer To the best of my knowledge, she has been teaching workshops at St Mark's, as well as writing and editing. I think I heard also that she was teaching a workshop out of her home in NYC. But I haven't heard anything about her teaching at a university-- nor did I know that financial worries were an issue. I hope I misunderstood the original post. It is true though that "deserving, recognized, and influential" does not necessarily lead to "rewarded". That's just life I guess. :-( Suzanne On 8/8/07, Bob Grumman wrote: Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before them I am silent.) Not to go way off topic, but I have thought the same thing about Mayer-- i.e., why she isn't on the faculty of a really top notch University and paid very, very well. She is after all not only an extraordinarily accomplished poet, she also has that rep for being a particularly gifted teacher. *sigh* Suzanne Burns I thought she had clout as a first generation language poet. That should get her into a lot of universities. Did she offend someone in language poetry? --Bob _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 8 15:06:41 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:06:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Charles Olson film, Polis of This Message-ID: <8C9A80663422E46-570-70B5@FWM-M06.sysops.aol.com> http://www.polisisthis.com/Polis/Home.html I see the movie about Charles Olson is having screenings....mostly in New England. Finnegan ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 8 16:40:59 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:40:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer References: <000001c7d9e9$e6e45700$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <001701c7d9fc$78cc7640$76fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> I hesitated before calling her a first generation language poet. I called her that, finally, because I tend to think anyone in the L=A=N=A=U=G=E book is a first generation language poet. On the other hand, I KNOW that some non-language poets had something in that book. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 8 16:08:08 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 15:08:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <001701c7d9fc$78cc7640$76fad740@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:41 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer I hesitated before calling her a first generation language poet. I called her that, finally, because I tend to think anyone in the L=A=N=A=U=G=E book is a first generation language poet. On the other hand, I KNOW that some non-language poets had something in that book. --Bob On second thought, I might well be wrong to say that most would id her as NY School. Language Poetry is probably the more common designation. (But many language poets tried to retrospectively enlist earlier writers like Creeley, so . . .) I know that many others feel her more aligned with Berrigan and Notley than Bernstein et al., but I think you?re right, the identification with Language is strong. But it?s only classification. She, as Creeley, plays with the nature of language the referential and emphases the materiality of language, but is also willing to create loud abstract expressionist canvases of everyday language like Berrigan, mixing the sacred and profane, playing na?f, etc. Maybe it?s simply that I love the NY School and Mayer, so when I have a choice of where to place her in my mind . . . . (Which is not of course to say I dislike Language Poetry . . . I like it very much at times and have learned a lot from it.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 8 17:27:15 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:27:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46BA3533.2030904@nut-n-but.net> I wouldn't call her langpo, myself--except inasmuch as almost any contemporary poet not Iowa Plaintext School is langpo in some ways, and she more than some. I just meant that she seemed to me to have strong ties to a power group. --Bob From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 16:47:45 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:47:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <000501c7d9ea$3f4db3a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000501c7d9ea$3f4db3a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I think of her as New York School and associate her strongly with Berrigan. Where in Upstate NY? I have family there. Honestly I am not surprised: if you don't have to be in NYC to make a living, the city is a major cash drain. I love visiting, but I don't know how anyone who isn't a hedge fund manager lives there anymore. Suzanne On 8/8/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > I think she left NYC for good several years back and bought a house > upstate with the proceeds of selling her papers to San Diego. She teaches > classes at here house, I think, when she can get students. > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Suzanne Burns > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:44 AM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer > > > > To the best of my knowledge, she has been teaching workshops at St Mark's, > as well as writing and editing. > > I think I heard also that she was teaching a workshop out of her home in > NYC. But I haven't heard anything about her teaching at a university-- nor > did I know that financial worries were an issue. I hope I misunderstood the > original post. > > It is true though that "deserving, recognized, and influential" does not > necessarily lead to "rewarded". That's just life I guess. :-( > > > Suzanne > > > > On 8/8/07, *Bob Grumman* wrote: > > Many of us find a new one weekly. It's a great time to be alive as a > writer. I don't mind the silence, but I would like to see Bernadette Mayer > hired by a good university. (Of course, there is a down side for very > deserving writers who have to endure financial worries for decades. Before > them I am silent.) > > > > Not to go way off topic, but I have thought the same thing about Mayer-- > i.e., why she isn't on the faculty of a really top notch University and > paid very, very well. She is after all not only an extraordinarily > accomplished poet, she also has that rep for being a particularly gifted > teacher. *sigh* > > Suzanne Burns > > > I thought she had clout as a first generation language poet. That should > get her into a lot of universities. Did she offend someone in language > poetry? > > > > --Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what > your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and > you have style." > > Quentin Crisp > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 8 17:53:19 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:53:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <46BA3533.2030904@nut-n-but.net> References: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46BA3533.2030904@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <63A6940A-905B-4AB0-9136-183C1C460B79@earthlink.net> Yep, many if not most of us use lang and are po. What's this about a power group? Hal "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." --Tom Lehrer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I wouldn't call her langpo, myself--except inasmuch as almost any > contemporary poet not Iowa Plaintext School is langpo in some ways, > and she more than some. I just meant that she seemed to me to have > strong ties to a power group. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 18:01:01 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:01:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <63A6940A-905B-4AB0-9136-183C1C460B79@earthlink.net> References: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46BA3533.2030904@nut-n-but.net> <63A6940A-905B-4AB0-9136-183C1C460B79@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60708081501k4baa623co3e5d937d1bc197c@mail.gmail.com> I thought Lang Po wrote haiku. All poetry is language poetry. Some just ignore the conventional baggage and invent new baggage, some mix, some slice and dice, some treat words and letters as concrete objects. - Jim On 8/8/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Yep, many if not most of us use lang and are po. > > What's this about a power group? > > Hal > > "Political satire became obsolete when Henry > Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." > --Tom Lehrer > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I wouldn't call her langpo, myself--except inasmuch as almost any > > contemporary poet not Iowa Plaintext School is langpo in some ways, > > and she more than some. I just meant that she seemed to me to have > > strong ties to a power group. > > > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 8 18:08:05 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:08:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <648208b60708081501k4baa623co3e5d937d1bc197c@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46BA3533.2030904@nut-n-but.net> <63A6940A-905B-4AB0-9136-183C1C460B79@earthlink.net> <648208b60708081501k4baa623co3e5d937d1bc197c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You're thinking of L'Ang Po, Jim--a horse of another water. Hal "A rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name is a rose by any other name." --Gertrude Shakespeare (oft. attrib. to Wm. Stein) Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 8, 2007, at 5:01 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > I thought Lang Po wrote haiku. All poetry is language poetry. Some > just ignore the conventional baggage and invent new baggage, some mix, > some slice and dice, some treat words and letters as concrete objects. > > - Jim > > On 8/8/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Yep, many if not most of us use lang and are po. >> >> What's this about a power group? >> >> Hal >> >> "Political satire became obsolete when Henry >> Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." >> --Tom Lehrer >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> I wouldn't call her langpo, myself--except inasmuch as almost any >>> contemporary poet not Iowa Plaintext School is langpo in some ways, >>> and she more than some. I just meant that she seemed to me to have >>> strong ties to a power group. >>> >>> --Bob >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 8 21:45:08 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:45:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bernadette Mayer In-Reply-To: <648208b60708081501k4baa623co3e5d937d1bc197c@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c7d9f7$dd0f37a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><46BA3533.2030904@nut-n-but.net><63A6940A-905B-4AB0-9136-183C1C460B 79@earthlink.net> <648208b60708081501k4baa623co3e5d937d1bc197c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BA71A4.5090406@nut-n-but.net> James Cervantes wrote: > I thought Lang Po wrote haiku. All poetry is language poetry. Some > just ignore the conventional baggage and invent new baggage, some mix, > some slice and dice, some treat words and letters as concrete objects. > > - Jim > Yep, we all makes poetry. Some does it one way and others does it other ways. Some does it with words, some does it with musical notes, some does it with spinach. Yep. No difference tween none of 'em, and silly to think so. Yep. Anybody or spinach or whatever From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 8 21:55:17 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:55:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] concrete poetry wanted Message-ID: <8C9A83F783D9420-524-D0@FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com> http://poetry.about.com/ Concrete poetry, ?shaped? poems, visual poetry (or, as we like to call it, ?VisPo?... they are all forms of poetry in which the visual element is part of the poem?s art, the typographical arrangement of letters and words on the page (or as here, on the screen) is as much a part of the poem?s essence as the more traditional poetic techniques like prosody, meter, image, etc. Concrete poetry/VisPo is an important tributary in the modern-day River Po, and over the years we?ve offered a few glassfuls for your delectation. We are still inviting contemporary contributions to this anthology, but remember: Our poem submission form will not transmit the shape of your concrete poem. If you are sending us a shaped poem, please use the submission form to give us your name, your email address, the title of the poem you are sending, a brief description, and the permission we need before we can post anything -- then send the poem separately by email to poetry.guide at about.com, either typed in the body of the message, or as an attached MSWord document or jpeg file. (You must alert us to your contribution in advance and give your permission to post it via the submission form, or we will not open your email attachment.) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 9 02:09:56 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:09:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] concrete poetry wanted References: <8C9A83F783D9420-524-D0@FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001d01c7da4b$e9405be0$de2bb750@ANNY> I sometimes get lost in the same way, who is we and you? and the permission we need before we can post anything -- then send the poem separately by email to poetry.guide at about.com, either typed in the body of the message, or as an attached MSWord document or jpeg file. (You must alert us to your contribution in advance and give your permission to post it via the submission form, or we will not open your email attachment.) :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:55 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] concrete poetry wanted http://poetry.about.com/ Concrete poetry, ?shaped? poems, visual poetry (or, as we like to call it, ?VisPo?... they are all forms of poetry in which the visual element is part of the poem?s art, the typographical arrangement of letters and words on the page (or as here, on the screen) is as much a part of the poem?s essence as the more traditional poetic techniques like prosody, meter, image, etc. Concrete poetry/VisPo is an important tributary in the modern-day River Po, and over the years we?ve offered a few glassfuls for your delectation. We are still inviting contemporary contributions to this anthology, but remember: Our poem submission form will not transmit the shape of your concrete poem. If you are sending us a shaped poem, please use the submission form to give us your name, your email address, the title of the poem you are sending, a brief description, and the permission we need before we can post anything -- then send the poem separately by email to poetry.guide at about.com, either typed in the body of the message, or as an attached MSWord document or jpeg file. (You must alert us to your contribution in advance and give your permission to post it via the submission form, or we will not open your email attachment.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 9 06:08:30 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:08:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] concrete poetry wanted References: <8C9A83F783D9420-524-D0@FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com> <001d01c7da4b$e9405be0$de2bb750@ANNY> Message-ID: <002001c7da6d$3d0051b0$05af3452@ANNY> on a second reading and after several coffee it makes sense. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] concrete poetry wanted I sometimes get lost in the same way, who is we and you? and the permission we need before we can post anything -- then send the poem separately by email to poetry.guide at about.com, either typed in the body of the message, or as an attached MSWord document or jpeg file. (You must alert us to your contribution in advance and give your permission to post it via the submission form, or we will not open your email attachment.) :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:55 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] concrete poetry wanted http://poetry.about.com/ Concrete poetry, ?shaped? poems, visual poetry (or, as we like to call it, ?VisPo?... they are all forms of poetry in which the visual element is part of the poem?s art, the typographical arrangement of letters and words on the page (or as here, on the screen) is as much a part of the poem?s essence as the more traditional poetic techniques like prosody, meter, image, etc. Concrete poetry/VisPo is an important tributary in the modern-day River Po, and over the years we?ve offered a few glassfuls for your delectation. We are still inviting contemporary contributions to this anthology, but remember: Our poem submission form will not transmit the shape of your concrete poem. If you are sending us a shaped poem, please use the submission form to give us your name, your email address, the title of the poem you are sending, a brief description, and the permission we need before we can post anything -- then send the poem separately by email to poetry.guide at about.com, either typed in the body of the message, or as an attached MSWord document or jpeg file. (You must alert us to your contribution in advance and give your permission to post it via the submission form, or we will not open your email attachment.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 9 17:02:11 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:02:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paul Auster Message-ID: <001201c7dac8$8e884c80$d9c93a52@ANNY> Sent by blacksox to the buffalo: The poems in Disappearances are concise and hard hitting. Scribe The name never left his lips: he talked himself into another body: he found his room again in Babel. It was written a flower falls from his eye and blooms in a strangers mouth. A swallow rhymes with hunger and cannot leave its egg. He invents the orpan in tatters, he will hold a small black flag riddled with winter. It is spring, and below his window he hears a hundred white stones turn to raging phlox. Paul Auster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 9 18:25:44 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:25:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Seattle poet J.W. Marshall win prize Message-ID: <8C9A8EB5CBBCFAE-234-FD8@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> Last updated August 8, 2007 5:14 p.m. PT Seattle poet J.W. Marshall is the 2007 winner of the prestigious Field Poetry Prize from Oberlin College. Marshall, 55, will receive $1,000 as well as publication of his first full-length collection. Oberlin University Press has scheduled March for release of his volume, titled "Meaning a Cloud." Word of the award arrived the day after his longtime dog, Sandy, died. "There were a lot of emotions those two days," Marshall said, co-proprietor of Open Books, the poetry-only bookstore in Wallingford, with his wife and fellow poet, Christine Deavel. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Aug 9 18:33:13 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:33:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Seattle poet J.W. Marshall win prize Message-ID: Always good to hear about a first collection from a poet who's been in the trenches for a while. And a good press as well. Good on him. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 9 18:35:38 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:35:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed Message-ID: <8C9A8ECBE877C66-234-1047@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bellinghamherald.com/lifestyle/story/150322.html Poet Marvin Bell's work has been compared to Walt Whitman Writer reflects on war, death in latest volume ? MARVIN BELL "Mars Being Red" 7 p.m. next Thursday, Aug. 16 Village Books, 1200 11th St., 671-2626 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MARGARET BIKMAN THE BELLINGHAM HERALD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired after 40 years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers? Workshop, has written strong poetic reproofs of the follies of war and the inevitability of death in his 19th collection of poetry. Q: These are not quiet meditations on the philosophy of war; rather, these are visceral, graphic, tossing-in-one?ssleep poems. Would you elaborate on your thought in a recent interview that you?ve ?been trying for 30 years to figure out how best to put the news into poems ? what other people would call politics?? A: It doesn?t seem enough to me for poetry to be a graph of the mind, an experiment in language, or an aesthetic expression of emotion. The problem? Overt political content tends to overwhelm the poem so that it lacks insistent form and/or the complexity of the human condition ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Aug 9 18:41:09 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:41:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed References: <8C9A8ECBE877C66-234-1047@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: He gave a good interview; thank for the link. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Thu 8/9/2007 3:35 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed http://www.bellinghamherald.com/lifestyle/story/150322.html Poet Marvin Bell's work has been compared to Walt Whitman Writer reflects on war, death in latest volume MARVIN BELL "Mars Being Red" 7 p.m. next Thursday, Aug. 16 Village Books, 1200 11th St., 671-2626 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MARGARET BIKMAN THE BELLINGHAM HERALD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired after 40 years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers' Workshop, has written strong poetic reproofs of the follies of war and the inevitability of death in his 19th collection of poetry. Q: These are not quiet meditations on the philosophy of war; rather, these are visceral, graphic, tossing-in-one'ssleep poems. Would you elaborate on your thought in a recent interview that you've "been trying for 30 years to figure out how best to put the news into poems - what other people would call politics"? A: It doesn't seem enough to me for poetry to be a graph of the mind, an experiment in language, or an aesthetic expression of emotion. The problem? Overt political content tends to overwhelm the poem so that it lacks insistent form and/or the complexity of the human condition ________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4654 bytes Desc: not available URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 9 21:47:43 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:47:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed In-Reply-To: <8C9A8ECBE877C66-234-1047@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9A8ECBE877C66-234-1047@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Shoot, anyone's work can be compared to Whitman's (or anyone else's). Hal Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 9, 2007, at 5:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.bellinghamherald.com/lifestyle/story/150322.html > > Poet Marvin Bell's work has been compared to Walt Whitman > Writer reflects on war, death in latest volume > > MARVIN BELL > "Mars Being Red" > 7 p.m. next Thursday, Aug. 16 > Village Books, 1200 11th St., 671-2626 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > MARGARET BIKMAN > THE BELLINGHAM HERALD > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired > after 40 years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers? Workshop, has > written strong poetic reproofs of the follies of war and the > inevitability of death in his 19th collection of poetry. > > Q: These are not quiet meditations on the philosophy of war; > rather, these are visceral, graphic, tossing-in-one?ssleep poems. > Would you elaborate on your thought in a recent interview that > you?ve ?been trying for 30 years to figure out how best to put the > news into poems ? what other people would call politics?? > > A: It doesn?t seem enough to me for poetry to be a graph of the > mind, an experiment in language, or an aesthetic expression of > emotion. The problem? Overt political content tends to overwhelm > the poem so that it lacks insistent form and/or the complexity of > the human condition > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Aug 9 21:56:23 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 21:56:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed Message-ID: In a message dated 8/9/2007 8:48:14 PM Central Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: > Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired after 40 > years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers? Workshop, has written strong poetic > reproofs of the follies of war and the inevitability of death in his 19th > collection of poetry. > So he's saying that war has follies and death is inevitable? I'm glad that someone finally had the guts to say this! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Aug 10 00:19:05 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:19:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed Message-ID: In a message dated 8/9/2007 9:56:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: In a message dated 8/9/2007 8:48:14 PM Central Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired after 40 years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers? Workshop, has written strong poetic reproofs of the follies of war and the inevitability of death in his 19th collection of poetry. So he's saying that war has follies and death is inevitable? I'm glad that someone finally had the guts to say this! It seems so obvious if you think about it. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Aug 10 11:24:49 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:24:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed In-Reply-To: References: <8C9A8ECBE877C66-234-1047@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46BC8341.7090205@opus40.org> I've always thought that Hal Johnson's work could be compared to Jerry Lewis. Whether or not that's a compliment depends on whether or not you think I'm French. Halvard Johnson wrote: > Shoot, anyone's work can be compared to Whitman's > (or anyone else's). > > Hal > > Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 5:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com > wrote: > >> http://www.bellinghamherald.com/lifestyle/story/150322.html >> >> Poet Marvin Bell's work has been compared to Walt Whitman >> Writer reflects on war, death in latest volume >> >> MARVIN BELL >> "Mars Being Red" >> 7 p.m. next Thursday, Aug. 16 >> Village Books, 1200 11th St., 671-2626 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> MARGARET BIKMAN >> THE BELLINGHAM HERALD >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired >> after 40 years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers? Workshop, has >> written strong poetic reproofs of the follies of war and the >> inevitability of death in his 19th collection of poetry. >> >> Q: These are not quiet meditations on the philosophy of war; rather, >> these are visceral, graphic, tossing-in-one?ssleep poems. Would you >> elaborate on your thought in a recent interview that you?ve ?been >> trying for 30 years to figure out how best to put the news into poems >> ? what other people would call politics?? >> >> A: It doesn?t seem enough to me for poetry to be a graph of the mind, >> an experiment in language, or an aesthetic expression of emotion. The >> problem? Overt political content tends to overwhelm the poem so that >> it lacks insistent form and/or the complexity of the human condition >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's >> free from AOL at *AOL.com* >> . >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 10 11:44:09 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:44:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marvin Bell interviewed In-Reply-To: <46BC8341.7090205@opus40.org> References: <8C9A8ECBE877C66-234-1047@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> <46BC8341.7090205@opus40.org> Message-ID: Honored, of course. Hal "No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else's draft." --H. G. Wells Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 10, 2007, at 10:24 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > I've always thought that Hal Johnson's work could be compared to > Jerry Lewis. Whether or not that's a compliment depends on whether > or not you think I'm French. > > Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Shoot, anyone's work can be compared to Whitman's >> (or anyone else's). >> >> Hal >> >> Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > home.earthlink.net/%7Ehalvard/index.html> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http:// >> imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 5:35 PM, jforjames at aol.com >> wrote: >> >>> http://www.bellinghamherald.com/lifestyle/story/150322.html >>> >>> Poet Marvin Bell's work has been compared to Walt Whitman >>> Writer reflects on war, death in latest volume >>> MARVIN BELL >>> "Mars Being Red" >>> 7 p.m. next Thursday, Aug. 16 >>> Village Books, 1200 11th St., 671-2626 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------ >>> MARGARET BIKMAN >>> THE BELLINGHAM HERALD >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------ >>> Marvin Bell, 70, the first Poet Laureate of Iowa, and now retired >>> after 40 years on the faculty of the Iowa Writers? Workshop, has >>> written strong poetic reproofs of the follies of war and the >>> inevitability of death in his 19th collection of poetry. >>> >>> Q: These are not quiet meditations on the philosophy of war; >>> rather, these are visceral, graphic, tossing-in-one?ssleep poems. >>> Would you elaborate on your thought in a recent interview that >>> you?ve ?been trying for 30 years to figure out how best to put >>> the news into poems ? what other people would call politics?? >>> >>> A: It doesn?t seem enough to me for poetry to be a graph of the >>> mind, an experiment in language, or an aesthetic expression of >>> emotion. The problem? Overt political content tends to overwhelm >>> the poem so that it lacks insistent form and/or the complexity of >>> the human condition >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's >>> free from AOL at *AOL.com* >> ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437>. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From barry.spacks at verizon.net Fri Aug 10 14:13:19 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:13:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: two mini-me's In-Reply-To: <200708101600.l7AG04KQ017349@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200708101600.l7AG04KQ017349@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3A8D9C62-C357-4CC5-BFA8-892C6A9351DD@verizon.net> On Aug 10, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Halvard Johnon wrote: (1) > Shoot, anyone's work can be compared to Whitman's > (or anyone else's). > > Hal Hal's work can only be compared to Hal's work > (2) > Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. > > Halvard Johnson but what's that comin' down the road? B. From jfq at myuw.net Fri Aug 10 14:30:22 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Seattle poet J.W. Marshall win prize In-Reply-To: <8C9A8EB5CBBCFAE-234-FD8@FWM-M20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I love Open Books. I'll have to remember to congratulate him the next time I'm in there. On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Last updated August 8, 2007 5:14 p.m. PT > > Seattle poet J.W. Marshall is the 2007 winner of the prestigious Field Poetry Prize from Oberlin College. > > > Marshall, 55, will receive $1,000 as well as publication of his first full-length collection. Oberlin University Press has scheduled March for release of his volume, titled "Meaning a Cloud." > > > Word of the award arrived the day after his longtime dog, Sandy, died. "There were a lot of emotions those two days," Marshall said, co-proprietor of Open Books, the poetry-only bookstore in Wallingford, with his wife and fellow poet, Christine Deavel. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. > From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Aug 11 00:18:54 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:18:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Molenotes from all over Message-ID: <46BD38AE.7010305@opus40.org> In Situations 4, a vortex of forces begin to coalesce around Carlene's pilgrimage, Will The Major be drawn into Polly's plan to lead a revolution that will install Ross Perot as dictator? http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1993 And a poem, "With Miles," in issue 36 of Cortland Review. http://www.cortlandreview.com/ -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 13 12:06:04 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:06:04 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this: Bunny Shining Message-ID: _http://www.angryalien.com/0504/shiningbunnies.html_ (http://www.angryalien.com/0504/shiningbunnies.html) ____________________________________ ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 13 14:39:55 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:39:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this: BunnyShining References: Message-ID: <001401c7ddd9$58682350$73aa3852@ANNY> it is a parody all right, Just finished All the pretty horses by Cormac McCarthy, anybody read it here? ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this: BunnyShining http://www.angryalien.com/0504/shiningbunnies.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lethas1 at cox.net Mon Aug 13 14:57:57 2007 From: lethas1 at cox.net (Ed) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:57:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts Message-ID: <20070813185759.FJSE28475.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> I have posted my first two poetry videos both on YouTube and on my MySpace page This is part of a project I started last week Here is a link to the videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpdhoREC9Pc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNm4mq_KYA4 Right now I am planning on burning between 10-15 videos on a DVD and making it available through my web site and sending it to teachers I work with overseas. Last September I started the Poetry for Life project, www.thepoetryforlifeproject.com , I see this as an extension of this. Really interested in getting opinions on this Ed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 13 15:11:44 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:11:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this:BunnyShining In-Reply-To: <001401c7ddd9$58682350$73aa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <000001c7dddd$d0099bb0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> All the Pretty Horses is a decent book (unlike the movie). McCarthy's prose here is reminiscent of Hemingway, as the later work in the trilogy (of which this is the first), and even beyond. In his early work the prose was Faulknerian. When he focused on the West (after the great Blood Meridan), he seemed to gravitate toward a spare prose with a sense of a dry, hard reality and laconic characters. These are fully realized (if a bit cartoonish . . . as Hemingway is a cartoon . . . as Michelangelo drew cartoons . . . as film noir traffics in cartoons . . . i.e., a wide and respectful sense of the cartoon . . . perhaps a paring away to show only an essence?). One of my favorite McCarthy novels (which everyone else berates me for) is Child of God. One of the most ironic titles in contemporary literature. (And yet . . .) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:40 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this:BunnyShining it is a parody all right, Just finished All the pretty horses by Cormac McCarthy, anybody read it here? ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 6:06 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this: BunnyShining http://www.angryalien.com/0504/shiningbunnies.html _____ _____ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . _____ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 13 15:27:55 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:27:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoythis:BunnyShining References: <000001c7dddd$d0099bb0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <004101c7dde0$0d0ee040$73aa3852@ANNY> One of my worst defects is to value the latest book I read the best, but then I recover. I agree with the "paring away to show only an essence". Next for me Suttree, since I have it here, hopefully worth the ride. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoythis:BunnyShining All the Pretty Horses is a decent book (unlike the movie). McCarthy's prose here is reminiscent of Hemingway, as the later work in the trilogy (of which this is the first), and even beyond. In his early work the prose was Faulknerian. When he focused on the West (after the great Blood Meridan), he seemed to gravitate toward a spare prose with a sense of a dry, hard reality and laconic characters. These are fully realized (if a bit cartoonish . . . as Hemingway is a cartoon . . . as Michelangelo drew cartoons . . . as film noir traffics in cartoons . . . i.e., a wide and respectful sense of the cartoon . . . perhaps a paring away to show only an essence?). One of my favorite McCarthy novels (which everyone else berates me for) is Child of God. One of the most ironic titles in contemporary literature. (And yet . . .) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:40 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this:BunnyShining it is a parody all right, Just finished All the pretty horses by Cormac McCarthy, anybody read it here? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 13 15:38:47 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:38:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Canadian poet Margaret Avison Message-ID: <8C9ABF8B370601A-55C-10FB@webmail-md17.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070810.wavisonobit0810/BNStory/Entertainment/home Poet Avison's 'incalculable' contribution to Canadian literature NOOR JAVED Canadian Press August 10, 2007 at 4:12 PM EDT TORONTO ? Canadian poet Margaret Avison, who was lauded as a ?national treasure? when she won the prestigious Griffin Poetry Prize four years ago, has died at age 89. ?Her contribution to Canadian literature was incalculable,? said Joseph Zezulka, an English professor at the University of Western Ontario who met Avison in the early 1970s while she was a writer-in-residence at the university. During a literary career that spanned over 40 years, Avison twice won the Governor General's Award for poetry: once in 1960 for her debut collection ?The Winter Sun,? and again 30 years later for her fourth book of poetry ?No Time.? She was made an officer of the Order of Canada in 1985. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 13 15:42:39 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:42:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Remembering poet Sekou Sundiata Message-ID: <8C9ABF93E14460E-55C-1145@webmail-md17.sysops.aol.com> http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0813/p19s01-hfes.html Remembering poet Sekou Sundiata A visit to ground zero after 9/11 was soul-shifting and shaped the rest of Sundiata's writing career. By Stacy Teicher Khadaroo from the August 13, 2007 edition Before I ever met Sekou Sundiata, I talked with people he had inspired ? and I became one of them. He was a poet whose performance pieces brought people together across surface divides into lyrical, light-swirling, rhythmic examinations of what unites us. I wanted Monitor readers to know him, too ? those who hadn't already seen him featured more than a decade ago in Bill Moyers's PBS series "The Language of Life," or heard him on tour with artists such as his former student Ani DiFranco. ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 13 15:49:49 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:49:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] iceberg radio References: <8C9ABF8B370601A-55C-10FB@webmail-md17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005c01c7dde3$1c481830$73aa3852@ANNY> http://www.icebergradio.com/genre/classical now playing some good vivaldi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 13 16:09:25 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:09:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers mightenjoythis:BunnyShining In-Reply-To: <004101c7dde0$0d0ee040$73aa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <001b01c7dde5$de8d9b20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I loved Suttree very much. I remember that while reading it I had to get up so often to check my unabridged dictionary, that I finally started just underlining the words, making a list of about ten, then looking them all up as once, then returning to the book to marvel at his use. ("Dace bright" shinning and flashing of the river's water, etc.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:28 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers mightenjoythis:BunnyShining One of my worst defects is to value the latest book I read the best, but then I recover. I agree with the "paring away to show only an essence". Next for me Suttree, since I have it here, hopefully worth the ride. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoythis:BunnyShining All the Pretty Horses is a decent book (unlike the movie). McCarthy's prose here is reminiscent of Hemingway, as the later work in the trilogy (of which this is the first), and even beyond. In his early work the prose was Faulknerian. When he focused on the West (after the great Blood Meridan), he seemed to gravitate toward a spare prose with a sense of a dry, hard reality and laconic characters. These are fully realized (if a bit cartoonish . . . as Hemingway is a cartoon . . . as Michelangelo drew cartoons . . . as film noir traffics in cartoons . . . i.e., a wide and respectful sense of the cartoon . . . perhaps a paring away to show only an essence?). One of my favorite McCarthy novels (which everyone else berates me for) is Child of God. One of the most ironic titles in contemporary literature. (And yet . . .) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:40 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this:BunnyShining it is a parody all right, Just finished All the pretty horses by Cormac McCarthy, anybody read it here? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 13 16:17:32 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:17:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mentioning novelists, Rikki Dourcet is coming to be the Writer in Residence at Univ. of Louisiana, Lafayette In-Reply-To: <8C9ABF8B370601A-55C-10FB@webmail-md17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002001c7dde7$00f52c40$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Stunning work. I recommend Phospher in Dreamland and The Fanmaker's Inquisition, but they are all extraordinarily good. To top it off, she's a fine person, extraordinarily bright with a ready intelligence. I've not yet read her poetry, but she has about three poetry books and a children's book. On another note, a movie I'd strongly recommend for both adults and children in the 2004 Genesis, wherein an Africian storyteller explains in a simple and mildly poetical way, the nature of birth life and death which such beautiful nature photography that one wonders, at times, why anyone invented animation. The mating spiders is a long brilliant scene. It is so tasteful that I would have watched it with my kids even as toddlers (though there was a bit of frog rutting). It would be great for 7-11 year olds. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Aug 13 16:21:29 2007 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:21:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers mightenjoythis:BunnyShining In-Reply-To: <001b01c7dde5$de8d9b20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <004101c7dde0$0d0ee040$73aa3852@ANNY> <001b01c7dde5$de8d9b20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0708131321n3ba377e9j219018c0e5030dd3@mail.gmail.com> Suttree is amazing. I really enjoyed it. It's like Ulysses in Tennessee. I liked Child of God quite a lot, myself. My favorite McCarthy novels: The Orchard Keeper (his first) and Blood Meridian. Has anyone read The Road? Most of the folks I know who've read it either completely fell in love with it or hated it. I've also not read Sunset Limited, a book I'd like to read. Jeff Newberry On 8/13/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > I loved *Suttre*e very much. I remember that while reading it I had to > get up so often to check my unabridged dictionary, that I finally started > just underlining the words, making a list of about ten, then looking them > all up as once, then returning to the book to marvel at his use. ("Dace > bright" shinning and flashing of the river's water, etc.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Anny Ballardini > *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2007 2:28 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers > mightenjoythis:BunnyShining > > > > One of my worst defects is to value the latest book I read the best, but > then I recover. I agree with the "paring away to show only an essence". Next > for me Suttree, since I have it here, hopefully worth the ride. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Skip Fox > > *To:* 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' > > *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2007 9:11 PM > > *Subject:* RE: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might > enjoythis:BunnyShining > > > > *All the Pretty Horses *is a decent book (unlike the movie). McCarthy's > prose here is reminiscent of Hemingway, as the later work in the trilogy (of > which this is the first), and even beyond. In his early work the prose was > Faulknerian. When he focused on the West (after the great *Blood Meridan*), > he seemed to gravitate toward a spare prose with a sense of a dry, hard > reality and laconic characters. These are fully realized (if a bit > cartoonish . . . as Hemingway is a cartoon . . . as Michelangelo drew > cartoons . . . as film noir traffics in cartoons . . . i.e., a wide and > respectful sense of the cartoon . . . perhaps a paring away to show only an > essence?). > > > > One of my favorite McCarthy novels (which everyone else berates me for) is > *Child of Go*d. One of the most ironic titles in contemporary literature. > (And yet . . .) > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: > new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Anny Ballardini > *Sent:* Monday, August 13, 2007 1:40 PM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy > this:BunnyShining > > > > it is a parody all right, > > Just finished > > *All the pretty horses* > > by Cormac McCarthy, > > anybody read it here? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." ?William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 13 16:26:49 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:26:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisersmightenjoythis:BunnyShining In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0708131321n3ba377e9j219018c0e5030dd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003801c7dde8$4c9c2080$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I used to read him as he came out, even buying hardback. But after the trilogy, I've slipped somewhat. I have The Road (in paper) sitting on a pile of good intentions. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:21 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisersmightenjoythis:BunnyShining Suttree is amazing. I really enjoyed it. It's like Ulysses in Tennessee. I liked Child of God quite a lot, myself. My favorite McCarthy novels: The Orchard Keeper (his first) and Blood Meridian. Has anyone read The Road? Most of the folks I know who've read it either completely fell in love with it or hated it. I've also not read Sunset Limited, a book I'd like to read. Jeff Newberry On 8/13/07, Skip Fox < skip at louisiana.edu > wrote: I loved Suttree very much. I remember that while reading it I had to get up so often to check my unabridged dictionary, that I finally started just underlining the words, making a list of about ten, then looking them all up as once, then returning to the book to marvel at his use. ("Dace bright" shinning and flashing of the river's water, etc.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:28 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers mightenjoythis:BunnyShining One of my worst defects is to value the latest book I read the best, but then I recover. I agree with the "paring away to show only an essence". Next for me Suttree, since I have it here, hopefully worth the ride. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoythis:BunnyShining All the Pretty Horses is a decent book (unlike the movie). McCarthy's prose here is reminiscent of Hemingway, as the later work in the trilogy (of which this is the first), and even beyond. In his early work the prose was Faulknerian. When he focused on the West (after the great Blood Meridan), he seemed to gravitate toward a spare prose with a sense of a dry, hard reality and laconic characters. These are fully realized (if a bit cartoonish . . . as Hemingway is a cartoon . . . as Michelangelo drew cartoons . . . as film noir traffics in cartoons . . . i.e., a wide and respectful sense of the cartoon . . . perhaps a paring away to show only an essence?). One of my favorite McCarthy novels (which everyone else berates me for) is Child of God. One of the most ironic titles in contemporary literature. (And yet . . .) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:40 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisers might enjoy this:BunnyShining it is a parody all right, Just finished All the pretty horses by Cormac McCarthy, anybody read it here? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Memory believes before knowing remembers. Believes longer than recollects, longer than knowing even wonders." -William Faulkner, Light in August http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 13 16:54:34 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:54:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbitraisersmightenjoythis:BunnyShining References: <003801c7dde8$4c9c2080$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <00c001c7ddec$2793da90$73aa3852@ANNY> thanks I'm not the only one who keeps on piling up good intentions... :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:26 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbitraisersmightenjoythis:BunnyShining I used to read him as he came out, even buying hardback. But after the trilogy, I've slipped somewhat. I have The Road (in paper) sitting on a pile of good intentions. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:21 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Film buffs & rabbit raisersmightenjoythis:BunnyShining Suttree is amazing. I really enjoyed it. It's like Ulysses in Tennessee. I liked Child of God quite a lot, myself. My favorite McCarthy novels: The Orchard Keeper (his first) and Blood Meridian. Has anyone read The Road? Most of the folks I know who've read it either completely fell in love with it or hated it. I've also not read Sunset Limited, a book I'd like to read. Jeff Newberry On 8/13/07, Skip Fox < skip at louisiana.edu> wrote: I loved Suttree very much. I remember that while reading it I had to get up so often to check my unabridged dictionary, that I finally started just underlining the words, making a list of about ten, then looking them all up as once, then returning to the book to marvel at his use. ("Dace bright" shinning and flashing of the river's water, etc.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 13 17:45:48 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:45:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Forwarding from J. Stempleman : one word Message-ID: <00df01c7ddf3$4fb19ce0$73aa3852@ANNY> Sorry to those that may be receiving this request twice. Once you've read the note that follows, and if you can lend a word, here's the email address of the filmmaker: femmeviolet at hotmail.com > > > >From: "Kelly Egan" > >Reply-To: "Kelly Egan" > >To: mfalist at bard.edu > >Subject: mfalist: a thousand words'worth a picture > >Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:10:22 -0400 > > > > > >hi all, > > > >earlier this summer i sent out an email requesting your help with a > >film project. i am still in the midst of collecting words (one word > >from 1000 people)...the list seems to be stuck at 463. (which is > >truly an awesome number, thank you muchly to everyone who have > >provided!!!) > > > >if you have not sent me a word, i am on my knees begging! or if you > >know > >someone(s) who might have a word to spare, please pass this on! > > >many thanks, > >kelly > > > >----------------------------------- > >I am in the process of making a new film and need your help! I would > >love it if you could send me a single word that will be incorporated > >into a moving image. Like the film/quilt, this project will look at > >the construction of narrative through nonlinear forms, the > >pervasiveness and rationale behind ocularcentrism, individualism and > >the political economy >of > >language, with emphasis on the process of making. (I'm still fleshing >this > >all out). > > > >So please, send me your word! (no restrictions on the word, one word > >per person). And if you know anyone who may have a word to spare, > >please pass this on! > > > >Bestest, > >Kelly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 13 19:16:03 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:16:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration Message-ID: _http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/spamalit/_ (http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/spamalit/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 14 05:36:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:36:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration References: Message-ID: <004801c7de56$946529c0$caab3452@ANNY> K Silem Mohammad: "In the future spam-based poetry will place such a great demand on the time and energy of poets that they will have no time left to pursue their own original work, to everyone's relief. The present volume is a welcome step in that direction." ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/spamalit/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 08:43:13 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] QUEST In-Reply-To: <472922.79373.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <861059.70286.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents -- Guest-Edited Issue QUEST Reading [ http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE ] ~~ GEOFFREY JACQUES ~~ TONYA FOSTER ~~ TARA BETTS ~~ MENDI OBADIKE ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, QUEST Editor Friday, August 31st @ 7:00 P.M. ____ GEOFFREY JACQUES is a poet and critic who writes about literature, the visual arts, and culture. His latest book of poems is Just For a Thrill (Wayne State University Press, 2005). His book of criticism, A Change in the Weather: Modernist Imagination, African American Imaginary, is forthcoming from the University of Massachusetts Press. His previous poetry collections include Hunger and Other Poems (1993) and Suspended Knowledge (1998). Jacques has taught at several colleges, including Lehman College of the City University of New York (CUNY) the University of Massachusetts Boston, Hunter College, CUNY, the New York School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University, and at Parsons School of Design. TONYA FOSTER is the author of Swarm of Bees in High Court(Belladonna, 2001), WaterTables (forthcoming, Portable Press @ YoYo Labs), co-editor of Third Mind: Teaching Writing through Visual Art. Poetry, essays, fiction, and reviews published in various journals and magazines. Recipient of fellowships from the Ford Foundation, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the City University of New York. She has organized reading series and cultural events throughout New York City, and taught creative writing and literature courses at CCNY's Bridge to Medicine Program and at Cooper Union. TARA BETTS is a graduate of the New England College MFA Program and Cave Canem. Her work appears in several anthologies and journals, including Gathering Ground, Obsidian III and Essence. In addition to performing and reading her work across the country, she is a lecturer at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ. She recently completed her full-length manuscript Infinite Arithmetic. MENDI OBADIKE is the author Armor and Flesh and the librettist of the The Sour Thunder. She works with composer / conceptual artist Keith Obadike. Together they have received the Rockefeller Media Arts Fellowship, a commission from the Whitney Museum, and one from Northwestern University to create a new work, Big House/ Disclosure, an intermedia suite featuring a 200-hour long house song. Mendi teaches at Princeton and lives in the New York area. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 14 09:26:29 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:26:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: from Ed Roberts In-Reply-To: <20070813185759.FJSE28475.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> References: <20070813185759.FJSE28475.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <45DFFC68-0D68-4DDB-B89D-2BDA2D9BE5E4@ripon.edu> Haven't had a chance to look at the videos. But I do think that the sentence "I see this as an extension of this" would make an excellent first line to a John Ashbery poem. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 13, 2007, at 1:57 PM, Ed wrote: > I see this as an extension of this. > > > > Really interested in getting opinions on this > > > > Ed > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 14 11:31:03 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:31:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Shelton Lea's life Message-ID: <8C9AC9F42230A34-DDC-107D@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> http://www.theage.com.au/news/book-reviews/delinquent-angel/2007/08/14/1186857497932.html Delinquent Angel ?Gig Ryan, Reviewer August 14, 2007 Adopted to be little more than a toy for the children of a wealthy family, poet Shelton Lea's life didn't turn out exactly to be a box of chocolates. = IT IS RARE FOR A POET TO have a biography published so soon after his death but Shelton Lea's life (1946-2005) covered one of the most intense eras in Australian poetry. Arguments in the 1970s about poetry "on the page" and "off the page" (that is, performed) were boisterous, and journalist Diana Georgeff's biography is essential reading for anyone interested in that period. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 14 11:38:39 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:38:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train Message-ID: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253768.ece >From The TimesAugust 14, 2007 'Worst? rail firm goes from bad to verseAlan Hamilton E-mail your poem about trains and railways to books at thetimes.co.uk- we'll publish a selection of them on this page Britain?s worst-performing train company has hired a poet to soothe the tempers of its frustrated customers. First Great Western, which operates services from Paddington to South Wales and the West Country, insisted yesterday that its decision to engage Sally Crabtree, a Cornish poet, to perform at selected stations over the next four days had nothing to do with its poor punctuality record, disclosed in The Times yesterday. Crabtree, known in artistic circles as ?the pink-wigged pocket Venus from Cornwall?, bravely caught a First Great Western train from Penzance yesterday in the hope that it would deliver her to Reading for her first platform performance this morning. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Tue Aug 14 11:40:14 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:40:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] QUEST In-Reply-To: <861059.70286.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <472922.79373.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <861059.70286.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Impressive, lots of reading content in the guest edited issues. I'm still working my way through Mipo. Amy, I posted a response to the Library of Congress interview at http://vasigauke.blogspot.com/2007/08/amy-king-and-public-discourse.html ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of amy king Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:43 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Subject: [New-Poetry] QUEST MiPOesias presents -- Guest-Edited Issue QUEST Reading [ http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE ] ~~ GEOFFREY JACQUES ~~ TONYA FOSTER ~~ TARA BETTS ~~ MENDI OBADIKE ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, QUEST Editor Friday, August 31st @ 7:00 P.M. ____ GEOFFREY JACQUES is a poet and critic who writes about literature, the visual arts, and culture. His latest book of poems is Just For a Thrill (Wayne State University Press, 2005). His book of criticism, A Change in the Weather: Modernist Imagination, African American Imaginary, is forthcoming from the University of Massachusetts Press. His previous poetry collections include Hunger and Other Poems (1993) and Suspended Knowledge (1998). Jacques has taught at several colleges, including Lehman College of the City University of New York (CUNY) the University of Massachusetts Boston, Hunter College, CUNY, the New York School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University, and at Parsons School of Design. TONYA FOSTER is the author of Swarm of Bees in High Court(Belladonna, 2001), WaterTables (forthcoming, Portable Press @ YoYo Labs), co-editor of Third Mind: Teaching Writing through Visual Art. Poetry, essays, fiction, and reviews published in various journals and magazines. Recipient of fellowships from the Ford Foundation, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the City University of New York. She has organized reading series and cultural events throughout New York City, and taught creative writing and literature courses at CCNY's Bridge to Medicine Program and at Cooper Union. TARA BETTS is a graduate of the New England College MFA Program and Cave Canem. Her work appears in several anthologies and journals, including Gathering Ground, Obsidian III and Essence. In addition to performing and reading her work across the country, she is a lecturer at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ. She recently completed her full-length manuscript Infinite Arithmetic. MENDI OBADIKE is the author Armor and Flesh and the librettist of the The Sour Thunder. She works with composer / conceptual artist Keith Obadike. Together they have received the Rockefeller Media Arts Fellowship, a commission from the Whitney Museum, and one from Northwestern University to create a new work, Big House/ Disclosure, an intermedia suite featuring a 200-hour long house song. Mendi teaches at Princeton and lives in the New York area. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** ________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 14 11:47:03 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:47:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9ACA17E881D98-DDC-11AD@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> This is also an invitation to the list to create an e-phemeral anthology of 'train poems'. E-mail your poem about trains and railways -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:38 am Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253768.ece >From The TimesAugust 14, 2007 'Worst? rail firm goes from bad to verseAlan Hamilton E-mail your poem about trains and railways to books at thetimes.co.uk- we'll publish a selection of them on this page Britain?s worst-performing train company has hired a poet to soothe the tempers of its frustrated customers. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at pavementsaw.org Tue Aug 14 11:49:10 2007 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Final Call Postmark 8/15/07 for PSP Transcontinental Award Message-ID: <69134.46512.qm@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends and all others who might be interested! Electronic and mailed entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are NOT a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter. Include a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are blind judged. 5. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than one page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. Each year Pavement Saw Press will publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The competition is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 copy press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. This year David Baratier will be the judge; past students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to submit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2007, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $18.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $25.00 via paypal to info at pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This ?editors choice? manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Entries should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark or paypal payment. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. If you have questions, please ask us: info at pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 14 11:52:42 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:52:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <8C9ACA17E881D98-DDC-11AD@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> <8C9ACA17E881D98-DDC-11AD@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E33F8EB-0238-4FAA-B372-BFA194F07E22@earthlink.net> Train Down at the station I am struck by a thought that carries me along with it past downtown exclamations along the order of ?Look at me!? and ?Here am I!? and into seedy boroughs of ?No way!? streets and ?Who you lookin' at?? alleys. Then the green of ?I've got mine, Jack? suburbs flashes by on the right, with river sucked seaward on the left, until the little towns?so quaint, so coy? slide past. First, ?Why me, O Lord?? then ?What have I done to deserve this?? in quick succession; then, farther north, in dairy country, a bite-sized town called ?Huh?? For an hour I brood between ?Huh?? and ?Hmmm,? where there's a longish stop for fuel and water, and I climb off and walk around for a while. Back on board, I start taking notes, jotting down this?s and that?s about these?s and those?s. I hear a conductor coming through the car?voice powerful and deep? announcing, ?Next stop, Eureka!? I snap to wakefulness, fully aware now that I?ve had a doze?on the wrong train, on the wrong coast, for any sort of ultimate destination? so at the next station, the one for Muddle and Quandary, I grab my bags, get off, and am home. --Halvard Johnson "If you have liver disease, tell your doctor." --TV drug commercial Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 14, 2007, at 10:47 AM, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > This is also an invitation to the list to create an e-phemeral > anthology of 'train poems'. > > > E-mail your poem about trains and railways > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jforjames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:38 am > Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253768.ece > >From The TimesAugust 14, 2007 > 'Worst? rail firm goes from bad to verseAlan Hamilton > > E-mail your poem about trains and railways to books at thetimes.co.uk- > we'll publish a selection of them on this page > Britain?s worst-performing train company has hired a poet to soothe > the tempers of its frustrated customers. > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 14 12:04:25 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:04:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration In-Reply-To: <004801c7de56$946529c0$caab3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <004301c7de8c$cee76f50$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I'm sure we've all been delighted in spam subject lines and texts. I've often thought about saving and playing with them but I know I'd never get around to it (it only sounds cute for a moment). Yet I'm glad someone has done it. If it's brilliantly done (how?) then I'd like to see it. If it's decently done, I wouldn't mind opening a few pages, see how it was put together, etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:36 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration K Silem Mohammad: "In the future spam-based poetry will place such a great demand on the time and energy of poets that they will have no time left to pursue their own original work, to everyone's relief. The present volume is a welcome step in that direction." ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/spamalit/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 14 12:12:32 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:12:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration In-Reply-To: <004301c7de8c$cee76f50$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <004301c7de8c$cee76f50$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <9F700A7F-F577-47E0-B143-104BD9DD5170@earthlink.net> Spam 'n' eggs, anyone? I'll have mine over easy, with salsa. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 14, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Skip Fox wrote: > I?m sure we?ve all been delighted in spam subject lines and texts. > I?ve often thought about saving and playing with them but I know > I?d never get around to it (it only sounds cute for a moment). Yet > I?m glad someone has done it. If it?s brilliantly done (how?) then > I?d like to see it. If it?s decently done, I wouldn?t mind opening > a few pages, see how it was put together, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:36 AM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration > > > K Silem Mohammad: > > ?In the future spam-based poetry will place such a great demand on > the time and energy of poets that they will have no time left to > pursue their own original work, to everyone?s relief. The present > volume is a welcome step in that direction.? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: JforJames at aol.com > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:16 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration > > > http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/spamalit/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 14 12:42:34 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:42:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration In-Reply-To: <9F700A7F-F577-47E0-B143-104BD9DD5170@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000501c7de92$235a4b20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Interest rates Green Spam and Eggs? Greenspan? Sam I am? (It's Yahweh or the highway.) I am what I am. I do not like them, Popeye -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:13 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration Spam 'n' eggs, anyone? I'll have mine over easy, with salsa. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 14, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Skip Fox wrote: I'm sure we've all been delighted in spam subject lines and texts. I've often thought about saving and playing with them but I know I'd never get around to it (it only sounds cute for a moment). Yet I'm glad someone has done it. If it's brilliantly done (how?) then I'd like to see it. If it's decently done, I wouldn't mind opening a few pages, see how it was put together, etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:36 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration K Silem Mohammad: "In the future spam-based poetry will place such a great demand on the time and energy of poets that they will have no time left to pursue their own original work, to everyone's relief. The present volume is a welcome step in that direction." ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] further genre degeneration http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/spamalit/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 14 14:46:59 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:46:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train References: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002501c7dea3$7f3edc10$b3ae3452@ANNY> it would be funny if I put into verse my experience. We were traveling with a bunch of teenagers from Eastbourne to London. Finally in London I got up first to lead the group and when the train stopped I tried to open the door, looked for a push-button, none, looked for a handle, nothing, looked around and some kids were as stupefied as I was, when finally and elderly man pushed through, pulled down the window, leaned out, and opened the door from the only outside handle. This not longer than 6 or 8 years ago. Re.: 'Worst? rail firm goes from bad to verse" I think they are competing with the Italian one. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253768.ece >From The TimesAugust 14, 2007 'Worst? rail firm goes from bad to verseAlan Hamilton E-mail your poem about trains and railways to books at thetimes.co.uk- we'll publish a selection of them on this page Britain?s worst-performing train company has hired a poet to soothe the tempers of its frustrated customers. First Great Western, which operates services from Paddington to South Wales and the West Country, insisted yesterday that its decision to engage Sally Crabtree, a Cornish poet, to perform at selected stations over the next four days had nothing to do with its poor punctuality record, disclosed in The Times yesterday. Crabtree, known in artistic circles as ?the pink-wigged pocket Venus from Cornwall?, bravely caught a First Great Western train from Penzance yesterday in the hope that it would deliver her to Reading for her first platform performance this morning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 14 14:48:25 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:48:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <4E33F8EB-0238-4FAA-B372-BFA194F07E22@earthlink.net> References: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> <8C9ACA17E881D98-DDC-11AD@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> <4E33F8EB-0238-4FAA-B372-BFA194F07E22@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9ACBAD4BDD101-D80-2097@WEBMAIL-MA11.sysops.aol.com> Rough Fish Under the creosote and rust of a railway trestle, three older boys fish for carp. They finish off a few cans of beer that one of them snuck out of the house, not worried about getting caught, because his dad will just think he drank it all last night and go buy some more. The only line in the water was nibbled clean hours ago, but no one pulls it up and checks it. The bait smells bad, a stink not easy to wash from your hands. This isn't exactly fishing, it's about getting out of those sweat-box shotgun houses that line the depot road, and lying back in the high weeds where it's cool down along the riverbank. Besides, the fish really aren't good for eating, full of bones and hard to clean, and the heavy metals in these waters seem to have made their scales thick as hammered armorplate. Some say these rough fish grow big as the wrecked Buicks and Dodges that you can half-see, submerged, lying off the shallows. One of the boys will finish highschool and work till he retires at the refinery, one will steal cars and do a short stretch before he marries a girl who gets him righted, one will get hit by a train, having passed out unaware of the moonlight shining on the tops of the rails,? the burnished steel indicating a well-used spur of track. For now their life is this one long afternoon, a summer without work and a circle of butts on the ground like hour marks on a clock of dirt, their prospects thin as a lottery ticket left in the back pocket of someone's cutoffs, a slip of paper and maybe the winning numbers melting away when one them gets too hot and says he's going in for a swim. -- ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 14 15:05:40 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:05:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> <8C9ACA17E881D98-DDC-11AD@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com><4E33F8EB-0238-4FAA-B372-BFA194F07E22@earthlink.net> <8C9ACBAD4BDD101-D80-2097@WEBMAIL-MA11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006c01c7dea6$1b94ea30$b3ae3452@ANNY> I found it: A stop at Willoughby - directed by Robert Parrish; 1960 part of the series: The Twilight Zone with Rod Serling_ From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Rough Fish Under the creosote and rust of a railway trestle, three older boys fish for carp. They finish off a few cans of beer that one of them snuck out of the house, not worried about getting caught, because his dad will just think he drank it all last night and go buy some more. The only line in the water was nibbled clean hours ago, but no one pulls it up and checks it. The bait smells bad, a stink not easy to wash from your hands. This isn't exactly fishing, it's about getting out of those sweat-box shotgun houses that line the depot road, and lying back in the high weeds where it's cool down along the riverbank. Besides, the fish really aren't good for eating, full of bones and hard to clean, and the heavy metals in these waters seem to have made their scales thick as hammered armorplate. Some say these rough fish grow big as the wrecked Buicks and Dodges that you can half-see, submerged, lying off the shallows. One of the boys will finish highschool and work till he retires at the refinery, one will steal cars and do a short stretch before he marries a girl who gets him righted, one will get hit by a train, having passed out unaware of the moonlight shining on the tops of the rails, the burnished steel indicating a well-used spur of track. For now their life is this one long afternoon, a summer without work and a circle of butts on the ground like hour marks on a clock of dirt, their prospects thin as a lottery ticket left in the back pocket of someone's cutoffs, a slip of paper and maybe the winning numbers melting away when one them gets too hot and says he's going in for a swim. -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Tue Aug 14 15:07:47 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:07:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train In-Reply-To: <002501c7dea3$7f3edc10$b3ae3452@ANNY> References: <8C9ACA052184040-DDC-1105@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> <002501c7dea3$7f3edc10$b3ae3452@ANNY> Message-ID: That's a nice experience to put into poetic words. To me trains give images of injury and death. Only last week my niece in Zimbabwe was one of the injured 50 in a train crash. Such accidents are so common that the reporter of story commented that the accident occured on the same spot as last year. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:47 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train it would be funny if I put into verse my experience. We were traveling with a bunch of teenagers from Eastbourne to London. Finally in London I got up first to lead the group and when the train stopped I tried to open the door, looked for a push-button, none, looked for a handle, nothing, looked around and some kids were as stupefied as I was, when finally and elderly man pushed through, pulled down the window, leaned out, and opened the door from the only outside handle. This not longer than 6 or 8 years ago. Re.: 'Worst' rail firm goes from bad to verse" I think they are competing with the Italian one. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] People Get on the Poetry Train http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2253768.ece >From The TimesAugust 14, 2007 'Worst' rail firm goes from bad to verseAlan Hamilton E-mail your poem about trains and railways to books at thetimes.co.uk- we'll publish a selection of them on this page Britain's worst-performing train company has hired a poet to soothe the tempers of its frustrated customers. First Great Western, which operates services from Paddington to South Wales and the West Country, insisted yesterday that its decision to engage Sally Crabtree, a Cornish poet, to perform at selected stations over the next four days had nothing to do with its poor punctuality record, disclosed in The Times yesterday. Crabtree, known in artistic circles as "the pink-wigged pocket Venus from Cornwall", bravely caught a First Great Western train from Penzance yesterday in the hope that it would deliver her to Reading for her first platform performance this morning. ________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com . ________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 14 15:17:39 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:17:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <8C9ACBAD4BDD101-D80-2097@WEBMAIL-MA11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001401c7dea7$cd81a980$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I'm betting Sherwood Anderson would really like this poem. (As I do.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:48 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Rough Fish Under the creosote and rust of a railway trestle, three older boys fish for carp. They finish off a few cans of beer that one of them snuck out of the house, not worried about getting caught, because his dad will just think he drank it all last night and go buy some more. The only line in the water was nibbled clean hours ago, but no one pulls it up and checks it. The bait smells bad, a stink not easy to wash from your hands. This isn't exactly fishing, it's about getting out of those sweat-box shotgun houses that line the depot road, and lying back in the high weeds where it's cool down along the riverbank. Besides, the fish really aren't good for eating, full of bones and hard to clean, and the heavy metals in these waters seem to have made their scales thick as hammered armorplate. Some say these rough fish grow big as the wrecked Buicks and Dodges that you can half-see, submerged, lying off the shallows. One of the boys will finish highschool and work till he retires at the refinery, one will steal cars and do a short stretch before he marries a girl who gets him righted, one will get hit by a train, having passed out unaware of the moonlight shining on the tops of the rails, the burnished steel indicating a well-used spur of track. For now their life is this one long afternoon, a summer without work and a circle of butts on the ground like hour marks on a clock of dirt, their prospects thin as a lottery ticket left in the back pocket of someone's cutoffs, a slip of paper and maybe the winning numbers melting away when one them gets too hot and says he's going in for a swim. -- _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryseiler at hotmail.com Tue Aug 14 15:36:19 2007 From: barryseiler at hotmail.com (barry seiler) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:36:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <001401c7dea7$cd81a980$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Hi-- Rough fish is terrific. Who did it pass through on its way to the page? Green Windows This is the fable of our daily going, This riding westward to Newark, Sun behind us flashback red, Before us green windows Flashing above the Passaic, Green windows of Mutual Benefit Life. In my had I hear the Talking Heads, Al Green?s Take Me to the River. In the shrunken world everything fits. Two rows ahead, the one-eyed Small claims adjuster Curses the delays. He leans back Closing his one good eye And dreams of not deboarding on Broad Street But following the tracks Beyond the Oranges, Short Hills, Summit. Or he dreams he is rising And floating out of the green windows, Watching them blazing behind him, Red and green, and red again, Like the burning of the frail craft Of Cortez on the coast of Mexico. >From: "Skip Fox" >Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > >To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" > >Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] All aboard! >Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:17:39 -0500 > >I'm betting Sherwood Anderson would really like this poem. (As I do.) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com >Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:48 PM >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! > > > >Rough Fish > > >Under the creosote and rust of a railway trestle, >three older boys fish for carp. They finish off >a few cans of beer that one of them snuck out >of the house, not worried about getting caught, >because his dad will just think he drank it all last night >and go buy some more. The only line >in the water was nibbled clean hours ago, >but no one pulls it up and checks it. The bait >smells bad, a stink not easy to wash from your hands. >This isn't exactly fishing, it's about getting out >of those sweat-box shotgun houses >that line the depot road, and lying back in the high weeds >where it's cool down along the riverbank. Besides, >the fish really aren't good for eating, full of bones >and hard to clean, and the heavy metals >in these waters seem to have made their scales >thick as hammered armorplate. Some say these rough fish >grow big as the wrecked Buicks and Dodges >that you can half-see, submerged, lying off the shallows. >One of the boys will finish highschool >and work till he retires at the refinery, >one will steal cars and do a short stretch >before he marries a girl who gets him righted, >one will get hit by a train, having passed out >unaware of the moonlight shining on the tops of the rails, >the burnished steel indicating a well-used spur of track. >For now their life is this one long afternoon, a summer >without work and a circle of butts on the ground >like hour marks on a clock of dirt, >their prospects thin as a lottery ticket >left in the back pocket of someone's cutoffs, >a slip of paper and maybe the winning numbers >melting away when one them gets too hot >and says he's going in for a swim. > > > >-- > > _____ > >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from >AOL at AOL.com. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 14 17:24:32 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:24:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: Message-ID: <00c901c7deb9$8196d3d0$b3ae3452@ANNY> Are you asking who is the author? The best, James Finnegan. From: "barry seiler" Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] All aboard! > Hi-- > > Rough fish is terrific. Who did it pass through on its way to the page? > > Green Windows > > This is the fable of our daily going, > This riding westward to Newark, > Sun behind us flashback red, > > Before us green windows > Flashing above the Passaic, > Green windows of Mutual Benefit Life. > > In my had I hear the Talking Heads, > Al Green's Take Me to the River. > In the shrunken world everything fits. > > Two rows ahead, the one-eyed > Small claims adjuster > Curses the delays. He leans back > > Closing his one good eye > And dreams of not deboarding on Broad Street > But following the tracks > > Beyond the Oranges, Short Hills, Summit. > Or he dreams he is rising > And floating out of the green windows, > > Watching them blazing behind him, > Red and green, and red again, > Like the burning of the frail craft > > Of Cortez on the coast of Mexico. > > > > > > >>From: "Skip Fox" >>Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" >> >>To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" >> >>Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] All aboard! >>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:17:39 -0500 >> >>I'm betting Sherwood Anderson would really like this poem. (As I do.) >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jforjames at aol.com >>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:48 PM >>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! >> >> >> >>Rough Fish >> >> >>Under the creosote and rust of a railway trestle, >>three older boys fish for carp. They finish off >>a few cans of beer that one of them snuck out >>of the house, not worried about getting caught, >>because his dad will just think he drank it all last night >>and go buy some more. The only line >>in the water was nibbled clean hours ago, >>but no one pulls it up and checks it. The bait >>smells bad, a stink not easy to wash from your hands. >>This isn't exactly fishing, it's about getting out >>of those sweat-box shotgun houses >>that line the depot road, and lying back in the high weeds >>where it's cool down along the riverbank. Besides, >>the fish really aren't good for eating, full of bones >>and hard to clean, and the heavy metals >>in these waters seem to have made their scales >>thick as hammered armorplate. Some say these rough fish >>grow big as the wrecked Buicks and Dodges >>that you can half-see, submerged, lying off the shallows. >>One of the boys will finish highschool >>and work till he retires at the refinery, >>one will steal cars and do a short stretch >>before he marries a girl who gets him righted, >>one will get hit by a train, having passed out >>unaware of the moonlight shining on the tops of the rails, >>the burnished steel indicating a well-used spur of track. >>For now their life is this one long afternoon, a summer >>without work and a circle of butts on the ground >>like hour marks on a clock of dirt, >>their prospects thin as a lottery ticket >>left in the back pocket of someone's cutoffs, >>a slip of paper and maybe the winning numbers >>melting away when one them gets too hot >>and says he's going in for a swim. >> >> >> >>-- >> From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 15 08:32:22 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:32:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Message-ID: Tracks Night, two o?clock: moonlight. The train has stopped in the middle of the plain. Distant bright points of a town twinkle cold on the horizon. As when someone has gone into a dream so far that he?ll never remember he was there when he comes back to this room. And as when someone goes into sickness so deep that all his former days become twinkling points, a swarm, cold and feeble on the horizon. The train stands perfectly still. Two o?clock: full moonlight, few stars. --Tomas Transtr?mer translation by Robert Bly A Book of Luminous Things, An International Anthology of Poetry edited by Czeslaw Milosz ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Aug 15 12:57:24 2007 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:57:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Autobiographical Message-ID: Autobiographical The minute my brother gets out of jail I want some answers: when our mother murdered our father did she find out first, did he tell her -- the pistol's tip parting his temple's fine hairs -- did he tell her where our sister (the youngest, Alice) hid the money Grandma (mother's side) stole from her Golden Age Group? It was a lot of money but enough to die for? was what Mom said she asked him, giving him a choice. I'll see you in hell, she said Dad said and then she said (this is in the trial transcript): Not any time soon, needle dick! We know Alice hid the money -- she was arrested a week later in Tacoma for armed robbery, which she would not have done if she had it. Alice was (she died of a heroin overdose six hours after making ball) syphilitic, stupid, and rude but not greedy. So she hid the money, or Grandma did, but since her stroke can't say a word, doesn't seem to know anybody. Doing a dime at Dannemora for an unrelated sex crime, my brother might know something but won't answer my letters, refuses to see me, though he was the one who called me at divinity school after Mom was arrested. He could hardly get the story out from laughing so much: Dad had missed his third in a row the day before with his parole officer, the cops were sent to pick him up (Bad timing, said Mom) and, found him before he was cold. He was going back to jail anyway, Mom said, said the cops, which they could and did use against her to the tune of double digits, which means, what with the lupus, she's guaranteed to die inside. Ask her? She won't talk to me. She won't give me the time of day. --Thomas Lux. New & Selected Poems 1975-1995. Houghton Mifflin, 1997. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 15 16:14:03 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:14:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C9AD8FF5B091F0-130-2AA0@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> STATION We are saying goodbye on the platform. In silence the huge train waits, crowding the station with aftermath and longing and all we've never said??? to one another. He shoulders his black dufflebag and shifts from foot to foot, restless to be off, his eyes wandering over tinted windows where he'll sit staring out at the Hudson's platinum dazzle.?? I want to tell him he's entering into the light of the world, but it feels like a long tunnel as he leaves one home, one parent for another, and we both know in our bones it won't ever?? be the same again. What is the air at, heaping between us then thinning to nothing? Or those slategrey birds that croon to themselves in an iron angle and then take flight ? inscribing? huge loops of effortless grace between this station of shade and the shining water? When our cheeks rest glancing against each other, I feel mine scratchy with beard and stubble, his not quite smooth as a girl's, harder, a faint fuzz?? starting ? those silken beginnings I can see when the light is right, his next life in bright first touches. What ails our hearts? Mine aching in vain for the words to make sense of our life together; his?? fluttering in dread of my finding the words, feathered syllables fidgeting in his throat. In a sudden rush of bodies and announcements out of the air, he says???? he's got to be going. One quick touch and he's gone. In a minute the train ? ghostly faces behind smoked glass ? groans away on wheels and shackles, a slow glide I walk beside, waving???? at what I can see no longer. Later, on his own in the city, he'll enter the underground and cross the river, going home to his mother's house. And I imagine that pale face of his??? carried along in the dark glass, shining through shadows that fill the window and fall away again before we're even able to name them. --Eamon Grennan Relations: New and Selected Poems (1998) -- ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 18:08:16 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] QUEST In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <245267.19939.qm@web83312.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Emmanuel! Glad you enjoyed the issue as well as the interview -- and thank you for posting about it on your blog! Best, Amy "Sigauke, Emmanuel " wrote: Impressive, lots of reading content in the guest edited issues. I'm still working my way through Mipo. Amy, I posted a response to the Library of Congress interview at http://vasigauke.blogspot.com/2007/08/amy-king-and-public-discourse.html --------------------------------- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of amy king Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:43 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Subject: [New-Poetry] QUEST MiPOesias presents -- Guest-Edited Issue QUEST Reading [ http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE ] ~~ GEOFFREY JACQUES ~~ TONYA FOSTER ~~ TARA BETTS ~~ MENDI OBADIKE ~~ Hosted by Evie Shockley, QUEST Editor Friday, August 31st @ 7:00 P.M. ____ GEOFFREY JACQUES is a poet and critic who writes about literature, the visual arts, and culture. His latest book of poems is Just For a Thrill (Wayne State University Press, 2005). His book of criticism, A Change in the Weather: Modernist Imagination, African American Imaginary, is forthcoming from the University of Massachusetts Press. His previous poetry collections include Hunger and Other Poems (1993) and Suspended Knowledge (1998). Jacques has taught at several colleges, including Lehman College of the City University of New York (CUNY) the University of Massachusetts Boston, Hunter College, CUNY, the New York School of Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell University, and at Parsons School of Design. TONYA FOSTER is the author of Swarm of Bees in High Court(Belladonna, 2001), WaterTables (forthcoming, Portable Press @ YoYo Labs), co-editor of Third Mind: Teaching Writing through Visual Art. Poetry, essays, fiction, and reviews published in various journals and magazines. Recipient of fellowships from the Ford Foundation, the Woodrow Wilson Foundation, and the City University of New York. She has organized reading series and cultural events throughout New York City, and taught creative writing and literature courses at CCNY's Bridge to Medicine Program and at Cooper Union. TARA BETTS is a graduate of the New England College MFA Program and Cave Canem. Her work appears in several anthologies and journals, including Gathering Ground, Obsidian III and Essence. In addition to performing and reading her work across the country, she is a lecturer at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ. She recently completed her full-length manuscript Infinite Arithmetic. MENDI OBADIKE is the author Armor and Flesh and the librettist of the The Sour Thunder. She works with composer / conceptual artist Keith Obadike. Together they have received the Rockefeller Media Arts Fellowship, a commission from the Whitney Museum, and one from Northwestern University to create a new work, Big House/ Disclosure, an intermedia suite featuring a 200-hour long house song. Mendi teaches at Princeton and lives in the New York area. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Read QUEST here ----> http://www.mipoesias.com/EVIESHOCKLEYISSUE/ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King Editor http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search._______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmarcacci at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 04:35:33 2007 From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:35:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <8C9ACA17E881D98-DDC-11AD@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: bari centrale the sky is somewhat overcast like an exray of a lung we all of us waiting here for the next train inhale adriatic breeze exhale humid summer breathe of the energy-consuming ever-idling world of weary waiters we with our bags and sunglasses to serve these hours with our mortality we who partake in silences glances leave all of me damp with sweat past abandoned trains painted slogans crenelated brick shadowed with dust and train exhaust into a greying countryside divided by stone walls other trains highways olive trees overgrown lots with yellow grasses and cacti toward more stations where women wait on green metal benches with holes in the sun twist hair while looking down the track in the distance a man in shorts shovels dirt into a wheelbarrow not a red one but one without color in the distance all the buildings with their antennaes reach into the sky like periscopes of subterranean small towns we move through as the train rumbles humming along its rusted steel girders a crumbling wall of stones walls of brick the sunburned plastic overhang at valenzano larmie station overhung with electrical cables zucchini fields More here with photos: -- Bob Marcacci What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake > From: > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:47:03 -0400 > To: > Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! > > This is also an invitation to the list to create an e-phemeral anthology of > 'train poems'. > > > > E-mail your poem about trains and railways From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 16 09:02:39 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:02:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: Message-ID: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> a night at a southern station I don't know the people at times not even their language thick and tight in ancient guttural almost Arabic sounds I know their eyes and I can see a kid disappearing pushed by a man somewhere down the old tracks where dead rusted trains are forgotten hordes of dogs swarm around skin pulled on their bones _eyes again a couple of young Americans high on crack drink and move and laugh beggars looking for a private protected spot not a policeman a guard someone to orchestrate this circus of mad my thought is with the kid it will be with him all night when dawn breaks the man comes out I cannot see him the coffee bar opens the ticket counter a loudspeaker announces one train I will soon leave this hell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Aug 16 10:06:01 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:06:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c7e00e$997f28c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> --As I have trod the rumorous midnights, too, And past the circuit of the lamp's thin flame (O Night that bound me to her body bare!) Have dreamed beyond the print that bound her name. Trains sounding the long blizzards out--I heard Wail into distances I knew were hers. -Hart Crane from "The River" in _The Bridge_. A sad chord this morning typing in Crane's lines. The "her" is America. I lived in Ohio growing up, as Crane did, and have heard the same trains wail into the same distances, laying at wake in an old farmhouse on a winter night. Of course not literally the same, since we were separated by 40+ years. But I've heard the same trains and have felt the quiet vibrancy and possibilities of all that land (this country), sensing an essential innocence even after two world wars. Not any more. The happy chord came when I typed: the river in the bridge. skip fox "Can't not milk." Howard Fournet telling me about growing up on a dairy farm this morning. (Nice bumpersticker?) From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 16 11:09:38 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:09:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> Wavelength With opacity drifting across their sunset, Mitsui and Jim spill colors across the floors of their loft. A column of flame shoots upward every half hour. Beyond the serrated glass, the knife-edged sky casts brilliant squares of light on polished hardwood floors. Now silvery gray, a tall, thin window comes into view, turning at right angles to the total blackness above. Suddenly it is no longer dark. A speeding freight train roars out of the fireplace, and passersby barely notice. What you see is what you get, essentially. The center of the universe, we?ve found, can be anywhere we want it to be. Gradually, as the day wore on, the light became more and more pronounced, subtly altering the contents of our space. Faith, hope, and envy flashed above the doorways and people die of exposure all around. Consummate rockers, masters of the violin, bypassed by the art world, just get off the train altogether. The train becomes a very small thing down the track, impossible to catch. fr. Halvard Johnson, Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones [Hamilton Stone Editions, 2007] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 16 11:11:54 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:11:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: American Life in Poetry: Column 125 Message-ID: <001e01c7e017$c8345150$933d014f@ANNY> What about subways? ----- Original Message ----- From: > Welcome to American Life in Poetry. For information on permissions and > usage, or to download a PDF version of the column, visit > www.americanlifeinpoetry.org. > > > American Life in Poetry: Column 125 > > BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE, 2004-2006 > Here Barry Goldensohn of New York offers a look at a contemporary subway station. > > Subway > > The station platform, clean and broad, his stage > for push-ups, sit-ups, hamstring stretch, > as he laid aside his back pack, from which > his necessaries bulged, as he bulged > through jeans torn at butt, knee and thigh, > in deep palaver with himself--sigh, > chatter, groan. Deranged but common. > We sat at a careful distance to spy > on his performance, beside a woman > in her thirties, dressed as in her teens-- > this is L.A.--singing to herself. > How composed, complete and sane > she seemed. A book by the Dalai Lama > in her hands, her face where pain and wrong > were etched, here becalmed, with faint chirps > leaking from the headphones of her walkman. > Not talking. Singing, lost in song. > > > > American Life in Poetry is made possible by The Poetry Foundation > (www.poetryfoundation.org), publisher of Poetry magazine. It is also > supported by the Department of English at the University of > Nebraska-Lincoln. Poem copyright (c) 2006 by Barry Goldensohn, whose most > recent book of poetry is "East Long Pond" (with Lorrie Goldensohn), > Cummington Press, 1998. Reprinted from "Salmagundi," Fall, 2006, No. 152, > with permission of the author. Introduction copyright (c) 2006 by The > Poetry Foundation. The introduction's author, Ted Kooser, served as > United States Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of > Congress from 2004-2006. We do not accept unsolicited manuscripts. > > ****************************** > > American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a > free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. The sole > mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry > seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are > no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your > publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without > alteration. > > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 16 11:26:46 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:26:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004601c7e019$dba50de0$933d014f@ANNY> A very good poem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Wavelength With opacity drifting across their sunset, Mitsui and Jim spill colors across the floors of their loft. A column of flame shoots upward every half hour. Beyond the serrated glass, the knife-edged sky casts brilliant squares of light on polished hardwood floors. Now silvery gray, a tall, thin window comes into view, turning at right angles to the total blackness above. Suddenly it is no longer dark. A speeding freight train roars out of the fireplace, and passersby barely notice. What you see is what you get, essentially. The center of the universe, we?ve found, can be anywhere we want it to be. Gradually, as the day wore on, the light became more and more pronounced, subtly altering the contents of our space. Faith, hope, and envy flashed above the doorways and people die of exposure all around. Consummate rockers, masters of the violin, bypassed by the art world, just get off the train altogether. The train becomes a very small thing down the track, impossible to catch. fr. Halvard Johnson, Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones [Hamilton Stone Editions, 2007] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 16 12:48:10 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:48:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8C9AE3C5CD10733-F70-1597@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> "In a Station of the Metro" by Ezra Pound The apparition of these faces in the crowd; Petals on a wet, black bough. - ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 16 12:54:15 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:54:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Religion and the Arts in America Message-ID: <8C9AE3D36EB51FF-F70-15F8@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> http://www.bu.edu/arion/Paglia.htm Religion and the Arts in America CAMILLE PAGLIA At this moment in America, religion and politics are at a flash point. Conservative Christians deplore the left-wing bias of the mainstream media and the saturation of popular culture by sex and violence and are promoting strategies such as faith-based home-schooling to protect children from the chaotic moral relativism of a secular society. Liberals in turn condemn the meddling by Christian fundamentalists in politics, notably in regard to abortion and gay civil rights or the Mideast, where biblical assumptions, it is claimed, have shaped US policy. There is vicious mutual recrimination, with believers caricatured as paranoid, apocalyptic crusaders who view America's global mission as divinely inspired, while liberals are portrayed as narcissistic hedonists and godless elitists, relics of the unpatriotic, permissive 1960s. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Thu Aug 16 13:06:08 2007 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:06:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <8C9AE3C5CD10733-F70-1597@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> <8C9AE3C5CD10733-F70-1597@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006a01c7e027$bd8ae010$38a0a030$@edu> A couple of train poems from Hardy: At the Raliway Station, Upway 'There is not much that I can do, For I've no money that's quite my own!' Spoke up the pitying child- A little boy with a violin At the station before the train came in,-- 'But I can play my fiddle to you, And a nice one 'tis, and good in tone!' The man in the handcuffs smiled; The constable looked, and he smiled, too, As the fiddle began to twang; And the man in the handcuffs suddenly sang With grimful glee: 'This life so free Is the thing for me!' And the constable smiled, and said no word, As if unconscious of what he heard; And so they went on till the train came in- The convict, and boy with the violin. Faintheart in a Railway Train At nine in the morning there passed a church, At ten there passed me by the sea, At twelve a forest of oak and birch, And then, on a platform, she: A radiant stranger, who saw not me. I said, 'Get out to her do I dare?' But I kept my seat in my search for a plea, And the wheels moved on. O could it but be That I had alighted there! The late Desmond Hawkins used to say that this latter poem constituted "taking a liberty at a distance after a failure of nerve at close quarters." Cheers, Bill Morgan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 16 13:14:56 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:14:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7EA4D9DC-4E96-4C99-B8D3-7555D2C41AAE@ripon.edu> Here's an old favorite, which I hope hasn't already been posted. Can be found in Ron Padgett's recent & excellent selection of Koch for American Poets Project, among other places. One Train May Hide Another (sign at a railroad crossing in Kenya) In a poem, one line may hide another line, As at a crossing, one train may hide another train. That is, if you are waiting to cross The tracks, wait to do it for one moment at Least after the first train is gone. And so when you read Wait until you have read the next line-- Then it is safe to go on reading. In a family one sister may conceal another, So, when you are courting, it's best to have them all in view Otherwise in coming to find one you may love another. One father or one brother may hide the man, If you are a woman, whom you have been waiting to love. So always standing in front of something the other As words stand in front of objects, feelings, and ideas. One wish may hide another. And one person's reputation may hide The reputation of another. One dog may conceal another On a lawn, so if you escape the first one you're not necessarily safe; One lilac may hide another and then a lot of lilacs and on the Appia Antica one tomb May hide a number of other tombs. In love, one reproach may hide another, One small complaint may hide a great one. One injustice may hide another--one colonial may hide another, One blaring red uniform another, and another, a whole column. One bath may hide another bath As when, after bathing, one walks out into the rain. One idea may hide another: Life is simple Hide Life is incredibly complex, as in the prose of Gertrude Stein One sentence hides another and is another as well. And in the laboratory One invention may hide another invention, One evening may hide another, one shadow, a nest of shadows. One dark red, or one blue, or one purple--this is a painting By someone after Matisse. One waits at the tracks until they pass, These hidden doubles or, sometimes, likenesses. One identical twin May hide the other. And there may be even more in there! The obstetrician Gazes at the Valley of the Var. We used to live there, my wife and I, but One life hid another life. And now she is gone and I am here. A vivacious mother hides a gawky daughter. The daughter hides Her own vivacious daughter in turn. They are in A railway station and the daughter is holding a bag Bigger than her mother's bag and successfully hides it. In offering to pick up the daughter's bag one finds oneself confronted by the mother's And has to carry that one, too. So one hitchhiker May deliberately hide another and one cup of coffee Another, too, until one is over-excited. One love may hide another love or the same love As when "I love you" suddenly rings false and one discovers The better love lingering behind, as when "I'm full of doubts" Hides "I'm certain about something and it is that" And one dream may hide another as is well known, always, too. In the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve may hide the real Adam and Eve. Jerusalem may hide another Jerusalem. When you come to something, stop to let it pass So you can see what else is there. At home, no matter where, Internal tracks pose dangers, too: one memory Certainly hides another, that being what memory is all about, The eternal reverse succession of contemplated entities. Reading A Sentimental Journey look around When you have finished, for Tristram Shandy, to see If it is standing there, it should be, stronger And more profound and theretofore hidden as Santa Maria Maggiore May be hidden by similar churches inside Rome. One sidewalk May hide another, as when you're asleep there, and One song hide another song; a pounding upstairs Hide the beating of drums. One friend may hide another, you sit at the foot of a tree With one and when you get up to leave there is another Whom you'd have preferred to talk to all along. One teacher, One doctor, one ecstasy, one illness, one woman, one man May hide another. Pause to let the first one pass. You think, Now it is safe to cross and you are hit by the next one. It can be important To have waited at least a moment to see what was already there. --Kenneth Koch ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== On Aug 16, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Wavelength > > With opacity drifting across their sunset, Mitsui and Jim spill colors > across the floors of their loft. A column of flame shoots upward > > every half hour. Beyond the serrated glass, the knife-edged sky casts > brilliant squares of light on polished hardwood floors. Now silvery > gray, > > a tall, thin window comes into view, turning at right angles to the > total > blackness above. Suddenly it is no longer dark. A speeding freight > train > > roars out of the fireplace, and passersby barely notice. What you see > is what you get, essentially. The center of the universe, we?ve found, > > can be anywhere we want it to be. Gradually, as the day wore on, > the light > became more and more pronounced, subtly altering the contents of our > > space. Faith, hope, and envy flashed above the doorways and people die > of exposure all around. Consummate rockers, masters of the violin, > > bypassed by the art world, just get off the train altogether. The > train becomes > a very small thing down the track, impossible to catch. > > > fr. Halvard Johnson, Organ Harvest with Entrance of Clones > [Hamilton Stone Editions, 2007] > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 13:29:04 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:29:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poe fan takes credit for grave lessons Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0708161029i63bd27cch8cb61d2a13ae1272@mail.gmail.com> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070815/ap_en_ot/mystery_visitor;_ylt=AsXjeQeHMuN3AQ.d6a8V1YJxFb8C -- "What is defeat in life? It is not merely making a mistake; defeat means giving up on yourself in the midst of difficulty. What is true success in life? True success means winning in your battle with yourself. Those who persist in the pursuit of their dreams, no matter what the hurdles, are winners in life, for they have won over their weaknesses." - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 16 13:43:22 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:43:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP Message-ID: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/16/2007-08-16_poet__prof_liam_rector_58_kills_self.html Poet & prof Liam Rector, 58, kills self -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thursday, August 16th 2007, 8:12 AM ?????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A famous American poet and college writing instructor killed himself with a shotgun blast yesterday in his Manhattan apartment, police said. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Thu Aug 16 14:29:45 2007 From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:29:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9AE4A8DBA6EE6-F04-1BC9@WEBMAIL-DF19.sysops.aol.com> Oh no. . .He was a major presence in the literary world. Probably like others on this list, I remember him from many years of?AWP.? What a shock.? How sad. . . -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:43 am Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/16/2007-08-16_poet__prof_liam_rector_58_kills_self.html Poet & prof Liam Rector, 58, kills self -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thursday, August 16th 2007, 8:12 AM ?????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A famous American poet and college writing instructor killed himself with a shotgun blast yesterday in his Manhattan apartment, police said. ? AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 16 15:36:14 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:36:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY><5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> <7EA4D9DC-4E96-4C99-B8D3-7555D2C41AAE@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <007e01c7e03c$b5470ae0$5cde3052@ANNY> >From Suttree by Cormac McCarthy: A whippoorwill had begun to call and with his ear to the round this way he began to hear the train too. A star arced long and dying down the sky. He raised his head and looked toward the house. Nothing moved. The train had come on and her harpiethroated highball wailed down the lonely summer night. he could hear the wheels shucking along the rails and he could feel the ground shudder and he could hear the tone of the trucks shift at the crossing and the huffing breath of the boiler and the rattle and clank and wheelclick and couplingclacking and then the last long shunting on the downgrade drawing on toward the distance and the low moan bawling across the sleeping land and fading and the caboose clicking away to final silence. He rose and adjusted his clothes and went back along the rows of corn to the woods and to the road and set himself toward home again. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Aug 16 15:38:57 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:38:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY><5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net><7EA4D9DC-4E96-4C99-B8D3-7555D2C41AAE@ripon.edu> <007e01c7e03c$b5470ae0$5cde3052@ANNY> Message-ID: Careful Anny, you might get me hooked to Cormac McCarthy. ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of Anny Ballardini Sent: Thu 8/16/2007 12:36 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! >From Suttree by Cormac McCarthy: A whippoorwill had begun to call and with his ear to the round this way he began to hear the train too. A star arced long and dying down the sky. He raised his head and looked toward the house. Nothing moved. The train had come on and her harpiethroated highball wailed down the lonely summer night. he could hear the wheels shucking along the rails and he could feel the ground shudder and he could hear the tone of the trucks shift at the crossing and the huffing breath of the boiler and the rattle and clank and wheelclick and couplingclacking and then the last long shunting on the downgrade drawing on toward the distance and the low moan bawling across the sleeping land and fading and the caboose clicking away to final silence. He rose and adjusted his clothes and went back along the rows of corn to the woods and to the road and set himself toward home again. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 15:52:09 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:52:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: References: <000801c7e005$b9ce93d0$b7ec3652@ANNY> <5E72CF96-E09B-4CCF-B745-7DBD4B1B5360@earthlink.net> <7EA4D9DC-4E96-4C99-B8D3-7555D2C41AAE@ripon.edu> <007e01c7e03c$b5470ae0$5cde3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60708161252p285d2f63u716a0e14c739b343@mail.gmail.com> 19. Yellow glow, post with lampshade next to the tracks, in front of a house, window full of darkness. from "Mockingbird Bouts," in Temporary Meaning, Hamilton Stone Editions, 2006. -- Jim, confessed minimalist ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Aug 16 16:47:17 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:47:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Religion and the Arts in America Message-ID: As usual Paglia is self important and full of shit. The religious right"hate" the arts because opportunistic pols like Jesse Helms search high and low for the most offensive stuff they can find and say, "See! This is what your tax dollars are finding. This is what your children are being taught in school." Conveniently ignoring the fact that many artists of all stripes are religious. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Aug 16 17:03:35 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:03:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c7e048$eef41830$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I'm on _The Road_ (his most recent?) now due to a discussion on him at the beginning of the week. It's very much like the trilogy of 20th-century western stories but mixed with luminous prose (like that of _Suttree_) welling through the bleakness occasionally (but there all the time as well). I can't imagine finding another McCarthy book that I love as much as _Suttree_ but the first thirty-five pages of _The Road_ is making it easier to so conceive. Wow. -----Original Message----- From: Sigauke, Emmanuel [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sigauke, Emmanuel Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:39 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Careful Anny, you might get me hooked to Cormac McCarthy. _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of Anny Ballardini Sent: Thu 8/16/2007 12:36 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! >From Suttree by Cormac McCarthy: A whippoorwill had begun to call and with his ear to the round this way he began to hear the train too. A star arced long and dying down the sky. He raised his head and looked toward the house. Nothing moved. The train had come on and her harpiethroated highball wailed down the lonely summer night. he could hear the wheels shucking along the rails and he could feel the ground shudder and he could hear the tone of the trucks shift at the crossing and the huffing breath of the boiler and the rattle and clank and wheelclick and couplingclacking and then the last long shunting on the downgrade drawing on toward the distance and the low moan bawling across the sleeping land and fading and the caboose clicking away to final silence. He rose and adjusted his clothes and went back along the rows of corn to the woods and to the road and set himself toward home again. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5612 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 16 17:03:48 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:03:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Religion and the Arts in America Message-ID: In a message dated 8/16/2007 4:48:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: As usual Paglia is self important and full of shit. Tell us how you really feel, Al. Finnegan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 16 17:07:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:07:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! References: <000801c7e048$eef41830$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <00ca01c7e049$6dc6fba0$5cde3052@ANNY> Mistake, his ear is to the ground, not to the round - sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Fox" To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views'" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] All aboard! I'm on _The Road_ (his most recent?) now due to a discussion on him at the beginning of the week. It's very much like the trilogy of 20th-century western stories but mixed with luminous prose (like that of _Suttree_) welling through the bleakness occasionally (but there all the time as well). I can't imagine finding another McCarthy book that I love as much as _Suttree_ but the first thirty-five pages of _The Road_ is making it easier to so conceive. Wow. -----Original Message----- From: Sigauke, Emmanuel [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Sigauke, Emmanuel Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:39 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Careful Anny, you might get me hooked to Cormac McCarthy. _____ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of Anny Ballardini Sent: Thu 8/16/2007 12:36 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] All aboard! >From Suttree by Cormac McCarthy: A whippoorwill had begun to call and with his ear to the round this way he began to hear the train too. A star arced long and dying down the sky. He raised his head and looked toward the house. Nothing moved. The train had come on and her harpiethroated highball wailed down the lonely summer night. he could hear the wheels shucking along the rails and he could feel the ground shudder and he could hear the tone of the trucks shift at the crossing and the huffing breath of the boiler and the rattle and clank and wheelclick and couplingclacking and then the last long shunting on the downgrade drawing on toward the distance and the low moan bawling across the sleeping land and fading and the caboose clicking away to final silence. He rose and adjusted his clothes and went back along the rows of corn to the woods and to the road and set himself toward home again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Aug 16 17:08:49 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:08:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Religion and the Arts in America Message-ID: Sorry. I'm shy. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 16 17:24:56 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:24:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Message-ID: A nice, if overly long, riff on a found poem/title. I wonder why more poets don't end their poems before the reader mentallly says to him/herself, "I get it, okay...I get it." And this is nothing against the poem per se, but a complaint against typesetters or layout design people who set titles in a font sizes over 12 points and then in bold (embolden them). What is that all about? The title needs no such aggrandizement. Let the body of the poem speak without some blimp of title flying over it and blocking out the light the reader needs to read by. Finnegan In a message dated 8/16/2007 1:15:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: One Train May Hide Another (sign at a railroad crossing in Kenya) In a poem, one line may hide another line, As at a crossing, one train may hide another train. That is, if you are waiting to cross The tracks, wait to do it for one moment at Least after the first train is gone. And so when you read Wait until you have read the next line-- Then it is safe to go on reading. In a family one sister may conceal another, So, when you are courting, it's best to have them all in view Otherwise in coming to find one you may love another. One father or one brother may hide the man, If you are a woman, whom you have been waiting to love. So always standing in front of something the other As words stand in front of objects, feelings, and ideas. One wish may hide another. And one person's reputation may hide The reputation of another. One dog may conceal another On a lawn, so if you escape the first one you're not necessarily safe; One lilac may hide another and then a lot of lilacs and on the Appia Antica one tomb May hide a number of other tombs. In love, one reproach may hide another, One small complaint may hide a great one. One injustice may hide another--one colonial may hide another, One blaring red uniform another, and another, a whole column. One bath may hide another bath As when, after bathing, one walks out into the rain. One idea may hide another: Life is simple Hide Life is incredibly complex, as in the prose of Gertrude Stein One sentence hides another and is another as well. And in the laboratory One invention may hide another invention, One evening may hide another, one shadow, a nest of shadows. One dark red, or one blue, or one purple--this is a painting By someone after Matisse. One waits at the tracks until they pass, These hidden doubles or, sometimes, likenesses. One identical twin May hide the other. And there may be even more in there! The obstetrician Gazes at the Valley of the Var. We used to live there, my wife and I, but One life hid another life. And now she is gone and I am here. A vivacious mother hides a gawky daughter. The daughter hides Her own vivacious daughter in turn. They are in A railway station and the daughter is holding a bag Bigger than her mother's bag and successfully hides it. In offering to pick up the daughter's bag one finds oneself confronted by the mother's And has to carry that one, too. So one hitchhiker May deliberately hide another and one cup of coffee Another, too, until one is over-excited. One love may hide another love or the same love As when "I love you" suddenly rings false and one discovers The better love lingering behind, as when "I'm full of doubts" Hides "I'm certain about something and it is that" And one dream may hide another as is well known, always, too. In the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve may hide the real Adam and Eve. Jerusalem may hide another Jerusalem. When you come to something, stop to let it pass So you can see what else is there. At home, no matter where, Internal tracks pose dangers, too: one memory Certainly hides another, that being what memory is all about, The eternal reverse succession of contemplated entities. Reading A Sentimental Journey look around When you have finished, for Tristram Shandy, to see If it is standing there, it should be, stronger And more profound and theretofore hidden as Santa Maria Maggiore May be hidden by similar churches inside Rome. One sidewalk May hide another, as when you're asleep there, and One song hide another song; a pounding upstairs Hide the beating of drums. One friend may hide another, you sit at the foot of a tree With one and when you get up to leave there is another Whom you'd have preferred to talk to all along. One teacher, One doctor, one ecstasy, one illness, one woman, one man May hide another. Pause to let the first one pass. You think, Now it is safe to cross and you are hit by the next one. It can be important To have waited at least a moment to see what was already there. --Kenneth Koch ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 16 17:41:32 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:41:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] impertinent question Message-ID: Who would you rather take a ride with, John or Rhianna?... John: As I sd to my friend, because I am always talking,--John, I sd, which was not his name, the darkness sur- rounds us, what can we do against it, or else, shall we & why not, buy a goddamn big car, drive, he sd, for christ's sake, look out where yr going. Rhianna: Got you where you wanna go if you know what i mean Got a ride that smoother than a limosine Can you handle the curves? Can you run all the lights? If you can baby boy then we can go all night Cos I'm 0 to 60 in three point five Baby you got the keys- Now shut up and drive (drive, drive, drive) Shut up and drive (drive, drive, drive) Now shut up and drive (drive, drive, drive) Shut up and drive (drive, drive, drive) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 21:18:03 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:18:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: WHAT THEM FUCK?????? I have no words. Holy shit. fuck. shit...... Can't say anything else. Suzanne On 8/16/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/16/2007-08-16_poet__prof_liam_rector_58_kills_self.html > > Poet & prof Liam Rector, 58, kills self > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thursday, August 16th 2007, 8:12 AM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > A famous American poet and college writing instructor killed himself with > a shotgun blast yesterday in his Manhattan apartment, police said. > > ------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 21:18:39 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:18:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: *head desk* On 8/16/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/16/2007-08-16_poet__prof_liam_rector_58_kills_self.html > > Poet & prof Liam Rector, 58, kills self > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thursday, August 16th 2007, 8:12 AM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > A famous American poet and college writing instructor killed himself with > a shotgun blast yesterday in his Manhattan apartment, police said. > > ------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Aug 16 21:25:03 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:25:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] impertinent question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C4F8EF.9050803@opus40.org> Or Gene Vincent? Well Ive led an evil life, so they say But Ill out run the devil on judgement day, I said Move, hot-rod, move man! Move, hot-rod, move man! Move hot-rod, move me on down the the line, oh yeah! Well me and the devil, at a stop light He started rollin, I was out of sight, I said Move, hot-rod, move man! Move, hot-rod, move man! Move hot-rod, move me on down the the line, oh yeah! Well, goin pretty fast, looked behind A-hear come the the devil doin ninety-nine, I said Move, hot-rod, move man! Move, hot-rod, move man! Move hot-rod, move me on down the the line, oh yeah! (lets drag now) Well thought I was smart, the race was won A-hear come the devil doin a-hundred and one Move, hot-rod, move man! Move, hot-rod, move man! Move hot-rod, move me on down the the line (lets drag again) JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Who would you rather take a ride with, John or Rhianna?... > > John: > > As I sd to my > friend, because I am > always talking,--John, I > > sd, which was not his > name, the darkness sur- > rounds us, what > > can we do against > it, or else, shall we & > why not, buy a goddamn big car, > > drive, he sd, for > christ's sake, look > out where yr going. > > > > Rhianna: > > Got you where you wanna go if you know what i mean > Got a ride that smoother than a limosine > Can you handle the curves? Can you run all the lights? > If you can baby boy then we can go all night > > Cos I'm 0 to 60 in three point five > Baby you got the keys- > > Now shut up and drive > (drive, drive, drive) > > Shut up and drive > (drive, drive, drive) > > Now shut up and drive > (drive, drive, drive) > > Shut up and drive > (drive, drive, drive) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From screwzbaran at gmail.com Thu Aug 16 21:28:36 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:28:36 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: References: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0708161828k156863dao35932e3114f6ba1c@mail.gmail.com> I heard about this -- insanity! On 8/16/07, Suzanne Burns wrote: > > *head desk* > > > > On 8/16/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > > > http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08/16/2007-08-16_poet__prof_liam_rector_58_kills_self.html > > > > > > Poet & prof Liam Rector, 58, kills self > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thursday, August 16th 2007, 8:12 AM > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > A famous American poet and college writing instructor killed himself > > with a shotgun blast yesterday in his Manhattan apartment, police said. > > > > ------------------------------ > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > > from AOL at *AOL.com * . > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > -- > "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what > your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and > you have style." > > Quentin Crisp > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "What is defeat in life? It is not merely making a mistake; defeat means giving up on yourself in the midst of difficulty. What is true success in life? True success means winning in your battle with yourself. Those who persist in the pursuit of their dreams, no matter what the hurdles, are winners in life, for they have won over their weaknesses." - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 17 08:43:57 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:43:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] All aboard! Message-ID: Railroad Avenue Dusk dark On Railroad Avenue. Lights in the fish joints, Lights in the pool rooms. A box-car some train Has forgotten In the middle of the Block. A player piano, A victrola, 942 Was the number. A boy Lounging on the corner. A passing girl With purple powdered skin. Laughter Suddenly Like a taut drum. Laughter Suddenly Neither truth nor lie. Laughter Hardening the dusk dark evening. Laughter Shaking the lights in the fish joints, Rolling white balls in the pool rooms, And leaving untouched the box-car Some train has forgotten. --Langston Hughes Selected Poems of Langston Hughes Vintage Books, 1974 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 08:46:55 2007 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:46:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: <2d5ffa0b0708161828k156863dao35932e3114f6ba1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C9AE4413691E75-F70-191A@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> <2d5ffa0b0708161828k156863dao35932e3114f6ba1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/16/07, Suzanne Baran wrote: > > I heard about this -- insanity! Sorry, it is still hard for me to be coherent about this-- You hear news like this and if you know the person, you are just reduce to sputtering, cursing, and breaking things. Liam is well known for his dedication to poetry and his great bear-like warmth and support of other poets. He is one of those mentors people always speak of with a notable glow to their voices. He is deeply deeply loved. This is going to be very rough news for a lot of people, and I know a few who are on their way to NYC right now. My heart goes out to Tree. I can only imagine what this must be like for her. I'm still speechless. Liam was never to the best of my knowledge the depressive type, but I know he has faced serious health problems for at least a decade. Gah. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Aug 17 08:50:40 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:50:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP Message-ID: Funny. My only experience with Rector was at the 97 AWP Conference when he started a panel paying tribute to Jane Kenyon with the announcement Allen Ginsberg had died. I still remember the gasp that went through the room--two or three hundred people catching their breath at once. I'm sure the same thing happened in a few hundred rooms across the country yesterday as this news came out. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 17 08:58:56 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:58:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] A munch & some jawing with Paul Muldoon Message-ID: _http://www.ft.com/cms/s/035e89ee-4571-11dc-b359-0000779fd2ac.html_ (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/035e89ee-4571-11dc-b359-0000779fd2ac.html) Lunch with the FT: Paul Muldoon By Ed Holland Published: August 10 2007 22:23 | Last updated: August 10 2007 22:23 In Martin Amis?s short story ?Career Move?, the customary positions of the poet and the screenplay writer are transposed. Screenwriters, toiling in mouldering garrets, submit scripts to obscure publishers in the hope of some pitiable compensation. Poets are flown first-class between London and Los Angeles to discuss million-dollar development deals for single sonnets. When Paul Muldoon meets me at Princeton station, I wonder whether the story was prophetic. Appearing suddenly, he waves me in the direction of a car. There is nothing especially remarkable about getting a ride from a poet, but this car was a Corvette. A long, gleaming, bright blue Corvette. Perhaps he has signed a mega-contract for some blockbuster new ode? ?I borrowed it from a colleague,? Muldoon says as we subside into our bucket seats ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 17 09:24:54 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:24:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Max Roach Message-ID: <3CA7C78A-6AB2-4CC8-8CE4-0AC4E0950F01@ripon.edu> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/arts/music/17roach.html? _r=1&ref=obituaries&oref=slogin Max Roach, a founder of modern jazz who rewrote the rules of drumming in the 1940s and spent the rest of his career breaking musical barriers and defying listeners? expectations, died early yesterday in Manhattan. He was 83. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 17 12:14:11 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:14:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy hates 'cicadas' Message-ID: <8C9AF00C80293E2-9D8-45B3@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/08/03/DDH5RBT9Q2.DTL Jon Carroll Friday, August 3, 2007 There is always ferment in the world of poetry, probably because there is rarely money in the world of poetry (absent the eccentric bequest), so turmoil is the only recreation available. Here David Lehman, the general editor of the Best American Poetry series, lays it out in his preface to the 2006 edition: "Some poets share a resistance to popularity - other people's popularity, above all - though they might bristle if you called them elitist. It's a problem that afflicts all of us to some extent. We say we want real readers, who buy our books as an act of choice, yet should one in our party escape the poetry ghetto, we tremble with ambivalence, as if having real readers means a sure loss in purity." ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Aug 17 13:52:20 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:52:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. Max Roach In-Reply-To: <3CA7C78A-6AB2-4CC8-8CE4-0AC4E0950F01@ripon.edu> References: <3CA7C78A-6AB2-4CC8-8CE4-0AC4E0950F01@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46C5E054.8090500@opus40.org> I heard Max play in a club in New York in 1977. It was right after Paul Desmond had died, and Max did a tribute to him that he called "Five for Paul." It was an unaccompanied drum version of "Take Five," and it was mesmerizing. David Graham wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/arts/music/17roach.html?_r=1&ref=obituaries&oref=slogin > > > > Max Roach > , > a founder of modern jazz who rewrote the rules of drumming in the > 1940s and spent the rest of his career breaking musical barriers and > defying listeners? expectations, died early yesterday in Manhattan. He > was 83. > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Fri Aug 17 16:30:57 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:30:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9AF24A6991FF2-B78-55E7@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> So We'll Go No More So it's fare thee well, my own true love; I'm leaving you behind. And not For the early, for the young reasons, but For these late, last, ill reasons. I'm almost Kaput! Yea, you'll get no more of me.... Cancer, heart attack, bypass?all In the same year? My chances Are one out of two! And I'm fucking well Ready, ready to go. To go!?how often I've operated that way. That way Almost the entire caper, the way For people, places, things: Abandon, abandon, nay abandon before Being abandoned. But we've, we've Stayed. You the third wife for me, I The second such boy for you, and I love Looking directly into you, as we look Directly into this last get-go. We all Have the talent for leaving, like it Or no. And oh, how rich it is, how fine To finally inherit!: the final thing I was looking for, as it turns out, The great power of leaving All the breathtakingly brief all along. --Liam Rector The Cortland Review, #18 - ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 16:53:29 2007 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This Weekend, Enjoy .... In-Reply-To: <8C9AF24A6991FF2-B78-55E7@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <786549.86420.qm@web83314.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ** Interview with Franz WRIGHT ** Poems by Cynthia SAILERS Besty WHEELER Dana WARD Mark BIBBINS Campbell MCGRATH Keith and Rosmarie WALDROP ** Review of Annie FINCH ** Profile of Mather LOUTH http://www.mipoesias.com/September2007/ Enjoy! MiPOesias http://www.mipoesias.com/ http://www.mipoesias.com/ http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Fri Aug 17 16:56:06 2007 From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:56:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP In-Reply-To: <8C9AF24A6991FF2-B78-55E7@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9AF24A6991FF2-B78-55E7@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C9AF282A6451E1-9F4-5497@FWM-M16.sysops.aol.com> This sounds too mystical to explain, but it has seemed to me that poetry often knows what is next?before writers do.? The poetry sneaks in, ahead of the life, to test the cold water with a foot. . .it's easier on paper. . .like a dry run.? Thanks for posting that. . . -----Original Message----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 1:30 pm Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Liam Rector RIP So We'll Go No More So it's fare thee well, my own true love; I'm leaving you behind. And not For the early, for the young reasons, but For these late, last, ill reasons. I'm almost Kaput! Yea, you'll get no more of me.... Cancer, heart attack, bypass?all In the same year? My chances Are one out of two! And I'm fucking well Ready, ready to go. To go!?how often I've operated that way. That way Almost the entire caper, the way For people, places, things: Abandon, abandon, nay abandon before Being abandoned. But we've, we've Stayed. You the third wife for me, I The second such boy for you, and I love Looking directly into you, as we look Directly into this last get-go. We all Have the talent for leaving, like it Or no. And oh, how rich it is, how fine To finally inherit!: the final thing I was looking for, as it turns out, The great power of leaving All the breathtakingly brief all along. --Liam Rector The Cortland Review, #18 - AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ ew-Poetry mailing list ew-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu ttp://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 17:01:16 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:01:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy hates 'cicadas' In-Reply-To: <8C9AF00C80293E2-9D8-45B3@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C9AF00C80293E2-9D8-45B3@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <648208b60708171401n384d5a19xc2e67a2457f76745@mail.gmail.com> On 8/17/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/08/03/DDH5RBT9Q2.DTL > > Jon Carroll > Friday, August 3, 2007 > There is always ferment in the world of poetry, probably because there is > rarely money in the world of poetry (absent the eccentric bequest), so > turmoil is the only recreation available. Here David Lehman, the general > editor of the Best American Poetry series, lays it out in his preface to the > 2006 edition: > > "Some poets share a resistance to popularity - other people's popularity, > above all - though they might bristle if you called them elitist. It's a > problem that afflicts all of us to some extent. We say we want real readers, > who buy our books as an act of choice, yet should one in our party escape > the poetry ghetto, we tremble with ambivalence, as if having real readers > means a sure loss in purity." He has a point. Most of my readers seem to be virtual. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Aug 17 21:06:47 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:06:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Billy hates 'cicadas' In-Reply-To: <648208b60708171401n384d5a19xc2e67a2457f76745@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C9AF00C80293E2-9D8-45B3@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> <648208b60708171401n384d5a19xc2e67a2457f76745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C64627.8070904@opus40.org> I think he's dead on. For a while I was sort of on a blues panel circuit, invited to be a participant at blues festivals in panels on "Whither the Blues?" For the most part, the panelists offered the opinion, expressed variously that the blues are alive, the blues are flourishing, the blues are entering a new era of greatness. I was always the grouch at the party, saying, "No, they're not." I said, and I believe, that the 20th Century was the American Century in music, the flowering of a magnificent art form that can hold its own in the company of Renaissance art, Elizabethan drama or Baroque music. But all great periods in art come to an end. There'll never be another Louis Armstrong, another Robert Johnson, another Chuck Berry. I was pretty much of a lonely voice on this one. But what was fun was when you asked those blues-are-flourishing, blues Renaissance guys about people who were currently popular, like Jonny Lang, they would recoil in exactly the way David Lehman describes. James Cervantes wrote: > On 8/17/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > >> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/article?f=/c/a/2007/08/03/DDH5RBT9Q2.DTL >> >> Jon Carroll >> Friday, August 3, 2007 >> There is always ferment in the world of poetry, probably because there is >> rarely money in the world of poetry (absent the eccentric bequest), so >> turmoil is the only recreation available. Here David Lehman, the general >> editor of the Best American Poetry series, lays it out in his preface to the >> 2006 edition: >> >> "Some poets share a resistance to popularity - other people's popularity, >> above all - though they might bristle if you called them elitist. It's a >> problem that afflicts all of us to some extent. We say we want real readers, >> who buy our books as an act of choice, yet should one in our party escape >> the poetry ghetto, we tremble with ambivalence, as if having real readers >> means a sure loss in purity." >> > > He has a point. Most of my readers seem to be virtual. > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Aug 18 13:21:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:21:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] aboard Message-ID: <005901c7e1bc$318b9140$50d63152@ANNY> Here it is, you are just about on the train this time, it should be Joe Green reading! Sat, 21 April 2007 The Great Train Journey The Great Train Journey of Rashmi Prakash as told by Sir Douglas Falstaff! Direct download: TheGreatTrainJourney.mp3 Category: podcasts -- posted at: 6:07 PM from the following blog: http://lonliestranger.blogspot.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sat Aug 18 17:09:53 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:09:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Situations Message-ID: <46C76021.9040903@opus40.org> In Episode 5, Bob marshals his forces in preparation for his campaign against campaign, and we find out about Blanche's gigolo. http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 13:05:29 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Tibetan Writing Collective - But, well, who really cares? Message-ID: <676379.24259.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received some wonderful feedback and prompt replies. And a special thank you (and you know who you are). By week's end, I will send a reply with address and detailed information related to the project. As said, I, and with lots of support, including the active participation of both Kathup Tsering and Santanu Bandyopadhyay, and this is a cooperative matter, which is to say that none are gonna receive accolades for doing what is right, are in the midst of planting the seeds, as they say, of a writer's collective in the midst of the Himalayas. And as for me, to be honest, this is being done at my own peril, not to be dramatic - but one can't believe in Tom Paine and pluralism without actually putting one's belief on the line (the word more invidious than any bullets). With 2008 approaching, and the need ever present, we are looking for those who are willing to donate a single book to this cause (postage included) - and that seed being planted towards the development of a reference library to accompany equipment already donated towards the formation of a support center providing access to those in greatest of need. I am talking about those who, one might argue, have more important things to say and offer than, say, many of those living Stateside or in Europe, and most of whom are writing for reasons far more important than those engrossed in typical "tea culture" - or the newest fad in Brooklyn or Chicago poetics (most of which both scholars and time won't bother to honor). No insult intended, be sure. But when you cross into Nepal, Mainland gun sites planted on you, barefoot and frostbitten, entering what is really your cultural homeland, because the Mandarin and Tibetans have little in common, leaving family and so-and-so behind, and write - well, then. A book, just a book, postage and no possibility of tax break, is what is asked and the return only in thanks. Please. Back channel for email. Again, those who have already contacted me will receive a reply by week's end. Just returned to China. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 19 23:45:53 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:45:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Message-ID: _http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482_ (http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482) On Political Poetry Farideh Hassanzadeh?Mostafavi | August 17, 2007 The poet Samuel Hazo, at his installation as the first state poet of Pennsylvania in 1993, declared that ?we should learn to listen to our poets here and now -- and not wait for history to confer on them their already earned validity.? Poets like Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Lorca, Yeats, Whitman, and Frost, he continued, would be remembered long after their contemporaries ? the military leaders, political officials, industrialists, and celebrities ? have been forgotten. ?One reason for the unforgettability of poets is that they somehow speak for more than themselves,? Hazo continued. ?Day by day we are so used to hearing voices that speak for individual constituencies or institutions that we tend to be deaf to those voices that speak from and to our common humanity.? Believing in Hazo?s idea that the star of poetry is our only guide, I asked several well-known poets about their views concerning the relationship between poetry and politics, particularly foreign policy. Here are their responses. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 20 07:12:58 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:12:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry References: Message-ID: <001201c7e31b$111eecd0$feae3252@ANNY> I agree with many beautiful statements and probably most with Billy Collins' one: to keep my mouth shut. On the other hand there is an on the other hand for me that does not want to be that quiet and it is a side of me that sees other things and the complexity of what is happening which is so complex that I cannot even give a glimpse of it in words _I should need books. I think it is too easy to complain and to accuse that is fundamentally what I want to say, yes I think that is it. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:45 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482 On Political Poetry Farideh Hassanzadeh?Mostafavi | August 17, 2007 The poet Samuel Hazo, at his installation as the first state poet of Pennsylvania in 1993, declared that ?we should learn to listen to our poets here and now -- and not wait for history to confer on them their already earned validity.? Poets like Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Lorca, Yeats, Whitman, and Frost, he continued, would be remembered long after their contemporaries ? the military leaders, political officials, industrialists, and celebrities ? have been forgotten. ?One reason for the unforgettability of poets is that they somehow speak for more than themselves,? Hazo continued. ?Day by day we are so used to hearing voices that speak for individual constituencies or institutions that we tend to be deaf to those voices that speak from and to our common humanity.? Believing in Hazo?s idea that the star of poetry is our only guide, I asked several well-known poets about their views concerning the relationship between poetry and politics, particularly foreign policy. Here are their responses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 20 09:23:45 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:23:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <001201c7e31b$111eecd0$feae3252@ANNY> References: <001201c7e31b$111eecd0$feae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <1D287F57-D2EF-4F2B-ABE1-BBADAA23F546@earthlink.net> Billy Collins may say that, but part of me says that he has customers not to offend. Myself, I think voices should be heard, mouths should be open--to protest, to mock, to revile. It's too easy not to complain. Hal Today's Special Death on All Fronts http://www.bigbridge.org/deathindex.htm fr. Big Bridge 12 Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 20, 2007, at 6:12 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I agree with many beautiful statements and probably most with Billy > Collins' one: > to keep my mouth shut. > On the other hand there is an on the other hand for me that does > not want to be that quiet and it is a side of me that sees other > things and the complexity of what is happening which is so complex > that I cannot even give a glimpse of it in words _I should need books. > I think it is too easy to complain and to accuse that is > fundamentally what I want to say, yes I think that is it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:45 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry > > http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482 > On Political Poetry > Farideh Hassanzadeh?Mostafavi | August 17, 2007 > > The poet Samuel Hazo, at his installation as the first state poet > of Pennsylvania in 1993, declared that ?we should learn to listen > to our poets here and now -- and not wait for history to confer on > them their already earned validity.? Poets like Homer, Dante, > Shakespeare, Lorca, Yeats, Whitman, and Frost, he continued, would > be remembered long after their contemporaries ? the military > leaders, political officials, industrialists, and celebrities ? > have been forgotten. ?One reason for the unforgettability of poets > is that they somehow speak for more than themselves,? Hazo > continued. ?Day by day we are so used to hearing voices that speak > for individual constituencies or institutions that we tend to be > deaf to those voices that speak from and to our common humanity.? > > Believing in Hazo?s idea that the star of poetry is our only guide, > I asked several well-known poets about their views concerning the > relationship between poetry and politics, particularly foreign > policy. Here are their responses. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 20 10:17:11 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:17:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry References: <001201c7e31b$111eecd0$feae3252@ANNY> <1D287F57-D2EF-4F2B-ABE1-BBADAA23F546@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002b01c7e334$cd152cb0$feae3252@ANNY> http://www.terenceblanchard.com/main.html just found on Tom Beckett's blog. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 20 11:52:16 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:52:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <001201c7e31b$111eecd0$feae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> There are so many poets that even the poets have a hard time listening to the poets. I mean we all have a hard time even finding those to whom we are most suited. (We need a service like Pandora.com which will make dozens of radio stations for you determined by a number of musicians you like, using an algorithm to determine the listener's ideal, say. "Billy Holliday" station. Something like what Netflicks does with movie recommendations, or Pandora with music, could be done with poetry, painting, etc. Giving each of us a new a new geography with a new local community.) The fact that normal people don't listen is everyone's constantly crying for not only their attention but their allegiance, from the minister to the political pundit. The imperative is shouting at us 24-7 from every pulpit, store window, and bumper-sticker. How can anyone listen? Or even be expected to listen? Maybe if they had something like algorithm/service above that told them if they liked Tom Waits they might like Charles Bukowski or Gregory Corso, say, or if they like Bob Dylan they might like Robert Creeley of Frank Stanford. That, then would be their start. If they like Creeley, try Olson and Duncan, etc. until a "constellation of poets" (Duncan's term) speaks compellingly that they might have a chance to listen. (Pandora.com, by the way, is a nice site to put music on when you're writing on the screen. I recommend. No classical as yet, but they say it's coming.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:13 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry I agree with many beautiful statements and probably most with Billy Collins' one: to keep my mouth shut. On the other hand there is an on the other hand for me that does not want to be that quiet and it is a side of me that sees other things and the complexity of what is happening which is so complex that I cannot even give a glimpse of it in words _I should need books. I think it is too easy to complain and to accuse that is fundamentally what I want to say, yes I think that is it. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:45 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482 On Political Poetry Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi | August 17, 2007 The poet Samuel Hazo, at his installation as the first state poet of Pennsylvania in 1993, declared that "we should learn to listen to our poets here and now -- and not wait for history to confer on them their already earned validity." Poets like Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Lorca, Yeats, Whitman, and Frost, he continued, would be remembered long after their contemporaries - the military leaders, political officials, industrialists, and celebrities - have been forgotten. "One reason for the unforgettability of poets is that they somehow speak for more than themselves," Hazo continued. "Day by day we are so used to hearing voices that speak for individual constituencies or institutions that we tend to be deaf to those voices that speak from and to our common humanity." Believing in Hazo's idea that the star of poetry is our only guide, I asked several well-known poets about their views concerning the relationship between poetry and politics, particularly foreign policy. Here are their responses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 20 11:58:32 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:58:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <001201c7e31b$111eecd0$feae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <000a01c7e342$fb56b9a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> My more direct views on poetry and politics: One uses what is at hand and seemed to be best at the time and upon reflection. If that means the juvenile, the sophomoric, the scatological, the baldly political, the mockery of whatever, or the support of whatever other, etc., I think the poem is big enough to include all of them, and any of them have their place in the poem if one is writing it with an intuitive of surety. (Keats said he remembered a poem more than wrote it. I think that "Neo-Platonic" sense of remembering was a metaphor for the surety of the intuition.) For what it's worth, skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:13 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry I agree with many beautiful statements and probably most with Billy Collins' one: to keep my mouth shut. On the other hand there is an on the other hand for me that does not want to be that quiet and it is a side of me that sees other things and the complexity of what is happening which is so complex that I cannot even give a glimpse of it in words _I should need books. I think it is too easy to complain and to accuse that is fundamentally what I want to say, yes I think that is it. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:45 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482 On Political Poetry Farideh Hassanzadeh-Mostafavi | August 17, 2007 The poet Samuel Hazo, at his installation as the first state poet of Pennsylvania in 1993, declared that "we should learn to listen to our poets here and now -- and not wait for history to confer on them their already earned validity." Poets like Homer, Dante, Shakespeare, Lorca, Yeats, Whitman, and Frost, he continued, would be remembered long after their contemporaries - the military leaders, political officials, industrialists, and celebrities - have been forgotten. "One reason for the unforgettability of poets is that they somehow speak for more than themselves," Hazo continued. "Day by day we are so used to hearing voices that speak for individual constituencies or institutions that we tend to be deaf to those voices that speak from and to our common humanity." Believing in Hazo's idea that the star of poetry is our only guide, I asked several well-known poets about their views concerning the relationship between poetry and politics, particularly foreign policy. Here are their responses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lethas1 at cox.net Mon Aug 20 14:22:10 2007 From: lethas1 at cox.net (Ed) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:22:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts Message-ID: <20070820182211.HJTC22245.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> On political poetry- To some poetry is merely an art form, words cleverly arranged upon a paper to paint a picture or evoke some kind of emotion. To others poetry is a release, a way to capture words they themselves can find no other way to expel but to leave behind on paper. There is nothing wrong with either of these types of poets. Still, there are those that view poetry as a powerful force for change. They understand that it can reach a person in a way that not even bullets or threats of violence can. These are the poets who are willing to risk everything, even their own life, to try and make even the smallest difference in the overall path this planet takes. In the end, many of their names will be forgotten, lay covered in a deluge of printed material that at the time seemed so much more important. Still glimmers of their words will remain, hopefully to light the candle of ambition to inspire those who follow to take the same path. If this flame is ever truly extinguished, then poetry itself may cease to exist, and with it our very souls as well. In the past mankind recorded his history though poetry and song. If he is wise, this is something he will forever continue. Ed Roberts www.thepoetryforlifeproject.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Aug 20 15:03:05 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:03:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46C9E569.2040901@opus40.org> This is actually a neat idea, and I bet it could be done. And I know just the man to do it...Jim Finnegan! Skip Fox wrote: > > There are so many poets that even the poets have a hard time listening > to the poets. I mean we all have a hard time even finding those to > whom we are most suited. (We need a service like Pandora.com which > will make dozens of radio stations for you determined by a number of > musicians you like, using an algorithm to determine the listener?s > ideal, say. ?Billy Holliday? station. Something like what Netflicks > does with movie recommendations, or Pandora with music, could be done > with poetry, painting, etc. Giving each of us a new a new geography > with a new local community.) > > The fact that normal people don?t listen is everyone?s constantly > crying for not only their attention but their allegiance, from the > minister to the political pundit. The imperative is shouting at us > 24-7 from every pulpit, store window, and bumper-sticker. How can > anyone listen? Or even be expected to listen? Maybe if /they/ had > something like algorithm/service above that told them if they liked > Tom Waits they might like Charles Bukowski or Gregory Corso, say, or > if they like Bob Dylan they might like Robert Creeley of Frank > Stanford. That, then would be their start. If they like Creeley, try > Olson and Duncan, etc. until a ?constellation of poets? (Duncan?s > term) speaks compellingly that they might have a chance to listen. > > (Pandora.com, by the way, is a nice site to put music on when you?re > writing on the screen. I recommend. No classical as yet, but they say > it?s coming.) > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] *On Behalf Of *Anny Ballardini > *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2007 6:13 AM > *To:* NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > *Subject:* Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry > > I agree with many beautiful statements and probably most with Billy > Collins' one: > > to keep my mouth shut. > > On the other hand there is an on the other hand for me that does not > want to be that quiet and it is a side of me that sees other things > and the complexity of what is happening which is so complex that I > cannot even give a glimpse of it in words _I should need books. > > I think it is too easy to complain and to accuse that is fundamentally > what I want to say, yes I think that is it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > *Sent:* Monday, August 20, 2007 5:45 AM > > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] politics and poetry > > http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4482 > > On Political Poetry > Farideh Hassanzadeh?Mostafavi | August 17, 2007 > > The poet Samuel Hazo, at his installation as the first state poet > of Pennsylvania in 1993, declared that ?we should learn to listen > to our poets here and now -- and not wait for history to confer on > them their already earned validity.? Poets like Homer, Dante, > Shakespeare, Lorca, Yeats, Whitman, and Frost, he continued, would > be remembered long after their contemporaries ? the military > leaders, political officials, industrialists, and celebrities ? > have been forgotten. ?One reason for the unforgettability of poets > is that they somehow speak for more than themselves,? Hazo > continued. ?Day by day we are so used to hearing voices that speak > for individual constituencies or institutions that we tend to be > deaf to those voices that speak from and to our common humanity.? > > Believing in Hazo?s idea that the star of poetry is our only > guide, I asked several well-known poets about their views > concerning the relationship between poetry and politics, > particularly foreign policy. Here are their responses. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 20 16:03:47 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:03:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pandora etc. In-Reply-To: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <1C5FCB9A-8BCC-4351-8828-709FEB74B63E@earthlink.net> The main advantage of Pandora is that you'll hear things you've never heard before. I'd suggest not telling it what you like, so it doesn't narrow its range to your likings. As to classical, I've been letting my iPod and the iTunes program on my laptap shuffle albums lately. I get a lot of variety that way, built on what I've pumped into my machines. How narrow that is depends on the range of my likings. E'en so, I'm always hearing things I haven't heard in months and months and months, and in a delightfully scattered fashion. Hal "The trouble with words is that you never know whose mouths they've been in." --Dennis Potter Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > Pandora.com, by the way, is a nice site to put music on when you?re > writing on the screen. I recommend. No classical as yet, but they > say it?s coming.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 20 17:46:31 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:46:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e342$1b088b80$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46CA0BB7.90809@nut-n-but.net> Skip Fox wrote: > > There are so many poets that even the poets have a hard time listening > to the poets. I mean we all have a hard time even finding those to > whom we are most suited. (We need a service like Pandora.com which > will make dozens of radio stations for you determined by a number of > musicians you like, using an algorithm to determine the listener?s > ideal, say. ?Billy Holliday? station. Something like what Netflicks > does with movie recommendations, or Pandora with music, could be done > with poetry, painting, etc. Giving each of us a new a new geography > with a new local community.) > > The fact that normal people don?t listen is everyone?s constantly > crying for not only their attention but their allegiance, from the > minister to the political pundit. The imperative is shouting at us > 24-7 from every pulpit, store window, and bumper-sticker. How can > anyone listen? Or even be expected to listen? Maybe if /they/ had > something like algorithm/service above that told them if they liked > Tom Waits they might like Charles Bukowski or Gregory Corso, say, or > if they like Bob Dylan they might like Robert Creeley of Frank > Stanford. That, then would be their start. If they like Creeley, try > Olson and Duncan, etc. until a ?constellation of poets? (Duncan?s > term) speaks compellingly that they might have a chance to listen. > > (Pandora.com, by the way, is a nice site to put music on when you?re > writing on the screen. I recommend. No classical as yet, but they say > it?s coming.) > > As I used to argue but gave up due to the wall the suggestion kept > hitting, we need a decent taxonomy of poetry. That way, a poem could > be identified as, say, infraverbal, and a search could then readily > find other poems on the Net labeled "infraverbal." I like your idea, > too, Skip--I've floated a similar one about dating service computer > matching of engagents to poets on the basis of answers to a > questionnaire. The latter would ask what poets, other writers, > composers, singers, etc., one liked, then send you to like poets. A > program could keep track of how well you were satisfied, and make > changes in accordance. Still, I'll never stop believing that intelligent labeling is the first thing that ought to be done. A major anthology that covered the full range of contemporary poetry (or even just more than 10 percent of that range) would be great, too, but not likely. --Bob G. From skip at louisiana.edu Mon Aug 20 17:19:36 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:19:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <46CA0BB7.90809@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000001c7e36f$d566af20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Labeling is good. In fact Robert Duncan insisted that Donald Allen group poets in _The New American Anthology_. He didn't label them, but the labels became the ones we are now familiar with: Beat, Black Mountain, New York, etc. But there is a danger with labels (classification blinds us to many other ways of seeing, ignoring the interchange between, say, Beat poets and Black Mountain poets, and making us feel we know the filed bacuse we can classify it) and it has rather limited usefulness dealing with the enormous amount of poets today, especially when compared to a computer (reader-poet) dating service. In fact I constantly hear poets complaining that, because of the increasingly numbers, they feel invisible. If we could find our "groupings" better, that may fulfill the role of a local scene, or a constellation of poets one feels a part of (for reading and publishing purposes). Anthologies have been great for this as have list serves like this one. I'm just thinking about another method using the advantage of the times (technology) to help solve one of the frustrations of the times (not being able to find the specific trees for the forest) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 4:47 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Skip Fox wrote: > > There are so many poets that even the poets have a hard time listening > to the poets. I mean we all have a hard time even finding those to > whom we are most suited. (We need a service like Pandora.com which > will make dozens of radio stations for you determined by a number of > musicians you like, using an algorithm to determine the listener's > ideal, say. "Billy Holliday" station. Something like what Netflicks > does with movie recommendations, or Pandora with music, could be done > with poetry, painting, etc. Giving each of us a new a new geography > with a new local community.) > > The fact that normal people don't listen is everyone's constantly > crying for not only their attention but their allegiance, from the > minister to the political pundit. The imperative is shouting at us > 24-7 from every pulpit, store window, and bumper-sticker. How can > anyone listen? Or even be expected to listen? Maybe if /they/ had > something like algorithm/service above that told them if they liked > Tom Waits they might like Charles Bukowski or Gregory Corso, say, or > if they like Bob Dylan they might like Robert Creeley of Frank > Stanford. That, then would be their start. If they like Creeley, try > Olson and Duncan, etc. until a "constellation of poets" (Duncan's > term) speaks compellingly that they might have a chance to listen. > > (Pandora.com, by the way, is a nice site to put music on when you're > writing on the screen. I recommend. No classical as yet, but they say > it's coming.) > > As I used to argue but gave up due to the wall the suggestion kept > hitting, we need a decent taxonomy of poetry. That way, a poem could > be identified as, say, infraverbal, and a search could then readily > find other poems on the Net labeled "infraverbal." I like your idea, > too, Skip--I've floated a similar one about dating service computer > matching of engagents to poets on the basis of answers to a > questionnaire. The latter would ask what poets, other writers, > composers, singers, etc., one liked, then send you to like poets. A > program could keep track of how well you were satisfied, and make > changes in accordance. Still, I'll never stop believing that intelligent labeling is the first thing that ought to be done. A major anthology that covered the full range of contemporary poetry (or even just more than 10 percent of that range) would be great, too, but not likely. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 18:53:24 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:53:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] missing link Message-ID: <648208b60708201553r249b0791r285846ff82849faa@mail.gmail.com> Someone sent in a link for a jazz cd requiem for Katrina and I lost it! Could you send again please? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 20 20:14:44 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:14:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c7e36f$d566af20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e36f$d566af20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <70D10484-CF2C-454A-A446-FF8479C87D94@earthlink.net> Being invisible--I like that. Hal "Getting shot hurts." --Ronald Reagan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 20, 2007, at 4:19 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Labeling is good. In fact Robert Duncan insisted that Donald Allen > group > poets in _The New American Anthology_. He didn't label them, but > the labels > became the ones we are now familiar with: Beat, Black Mountain, New > York, > etc. But there is a danger with labels (classification blinds us to > many > other ways of seeing, ignoring the interchange between, say, Beat > poets and > Black Mountain poets, and making us feel we know the filed bacuse > we can > classify it) and it has rather limited usefulness dealing with the > enormous > amount of poets today, especially when compared to a computer > (reader-poet) > dating service. > > In fact I constantly hear poets complaining that, because of the > increasingly numbers, they feel invisible. If we could find our > "groupings" > better, that may fulfill the role of a local scene, or a > constellation of > poets one feels a part of (for reading and publishing purposes). > > Anthologies have been great for this as have list serves like this > one. I'm > just thinking about another method using the advantage of the times > (technology) to help solve one of the frustrations of the times > (not being > able to find the specific trees for the forest) > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 4:47 PM > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry > > > > Skip Fox wrote: >> >> There are so many poets that even the poets have a hard time >> listening >> to the poets. I mean we all have a hard time even finding those to >> whom we are most suited. (We need a service like Pandora.com which >> will make dozens of radio stations for you determined by a number of >> musicians you like, using an algorithm to determine the listener's >> ideal, say. "Billy Holliday" station. Something like what Netflicks >> does with movie recommendations, or Pandora with music, could be done >> with poetry, painting, etc. Giving each of us a new a new geography >> with a new local community.) >> >> The fact that normal people don't listen is everyone's constantly >> crying for not only their attention but their allegiance, from the >> minister to the political pundit. The imperative is shouting at us >> 24-7 from every pulpit, store window, and bumper-sticker. How can >> anyone listen? Or even be expected to listen? Maybe if /they/ had >> something like algorithm/service above that told them if they liked >> Tom Waits they might like Charles Bukowski or Gregory Corso, say, or >> if they like Bob Dylan they might like Robert Creeley of Frank >> Stanford. That, then would be their start. If they like Creeley, try >> Olson and Duncan, etc. until a "constellation of poets" (Duncan's >> term) speaks compellingly that they might have a chance to listen. >> >> (Pandora.com, by the way, is a nice site to put music on when you're >> writing on the screen. I recommend. No classical as yet, but they say >> it's coming.) >> >> As I used to argue but gave up due to the wall the suggestion kept >> hitting, we need a decent taxonomy of poetry. That way, a poem could >> be identified as, say, infraverbal, and a search could then readily >> find other poems on the Net labeled "infraverbal." I like your idea, >> too, Skip--I've floated a similar one about dating service computer >> matching of engagents to poets on the basis of answers to a >> questionnaire. The latter would ask what poets, other writers, >> composers, singers, etc., one liked, then send you to like poets. A >> program could keep track of how well you were satisfied, and make >> changes in accordance. > Still, I'll never stop believing that intelligent labeling is the > first > thing that ought to be done. > > A major anthology that covered the full range of contemporary > poetry (or > even just more than 10 percent of that range) would be great, too, but > not likely. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 20 20:19:30 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:19:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] missing link References: <648208b60708201553r249b0791r285846ff82849faa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001501c7e388$f2bb7f60$2cae3452@ANNY> I think it was me with this one? http://www.terenceblanchard.com/main.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:53 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] missing link > Someone sent in a link for a jazz cd requiem for Katrina and I lost > it! Could you send again please? > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 20:23:44 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:23:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] missing link In-Reply-To: <001501c7e388$f2bb7f60$2cae3452@ANNY> References: <648208b60708201553r249b0791r285846ff82849faa@mail.gmail.com> <001501c7e388$f2bb7f60$2cae3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60708201723q3b5dd028u47ac38a52c7602cc@mail.gmail.com> Yes! Many thanks. - Jim On 8/20/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I think it was me with this one? > http://www.terenceblanchard.com/main.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Cervantes" > To: "new-poetry" > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:53 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] missing link > > > > Someone sent in a link for a jazz cd requiem for Katrina and I lost > > it! Could you send again please? > > > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html > > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 20 21:57:56 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:57:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c7e36f$d566af20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e36f$d566af20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46CA46A4.4080304@nut-n-but.net> Skip Fox wrote: > Labeling is good. In fact Robert Duncan insisted that Donald Allen group > poets in _The New American Anthology_. He didn't label them, but the labels > became the ones we are now familiar with: Beat, Black Mountain, New York, > etc. Terrible labels in that they have nothing to do with the poetry being done. > But there is a danger with labels (classification blinds us to many > other ways of seeing, ignoring the interchange between, say, Beat poets and > Black Mountain poets, My brilliant solution: legalizing multiple labeling. > and making us feel we know the field because we can > classify it) A problem with fools, not with labels. Fools will find a way to think they know the field with or without labels. In fact, lack of labels makes it easy right now for academics to ignore just about everything except Iowa plaintext lyrical poetry. Oh, and formalist poetry. And what they think is "experimental" poetry--the long-passe jump-cut stuff of Ashbery. > and it has rather limited usefulness dealing with the enormous > amount of poets today, especially when compared to a computer (reader-poet) > dating service. > > How could it be useful? It is ignored--or violently opposed. > In fact I constantly hear poets complaining that, because of the > increasingly numbers, they feel invisible. If we could find our "groupings" > better, that may fulfill the role of a local scene, or a constellation of > poets one feels a part of (for reading and publishing purposes). > > That's half what's needed--a group, intelligently named. The other half is being named into a intelligent taxonomy inter-relating the various groups. De-ghettoizing. > Anthologies have been great for this as have list serves like this one. I'm > just thinking about another method using the advantage of the times > (technology) to help solve one of the frustrations of the times (not being > able to find the specific trees for the forest) > > Anthologies are no longer useful for this because there are too many of them. --Bob G. From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 11:06:52 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] War on Terror Message-ID: <587902.48867.qm@web54601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Russian and Chinese military maneuvers. Chechnya and Turkestan. Pretense: War on Terror! Russia intimidating Czech Republic on anniversary of Prague Spring. Go to Youtube.com ID: endemic001 Password: creeley I was in the area when this happened. http://youtube.com/watch?v=iDdeW2qhZ2M http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKcRTfpogAM RFK: "...the peace of a cemetery and the security of the enslaved'. Onward and inward, as they say - Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 21 11:35:42 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:35:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <46CA46A4.4080304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000001c7e408$f543c8c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> All good, and I agree, loving especially the notion that too many anthologies confuses that which they were first meant to clarify (like Donald Hall's 1958 _New Poets in England and America: An Anthology_ countered by Donald Allen's _The New American Poetry, 1945-1960_) coming after the mishmash of John Unterecker and Oscar Williams's anthologies of modernists &c. The only disagreement is with the word "fools." It's right, of course, but only if one defines a majority of the population as such. So, yes, but . . . A lot of what might be considered foolish might just be conditioning and acculturation. That they have been put so far into "the box" that they can barely conceive of a box to "see out of." I don't mind calling militant adults like this "fools" (Bill O'Reilly, evolution deniers, etc.), but feel that part of poetry's "political" message is to reflect or enact the world in its complexities as a multivalent, intricate, astounding, horrifying (etc.) place.. . . Not a comfortable box with settled definitions and clear distinctions. And I think classification is a "wall" of the box for many (not just botanists and zoologists of a century ago). I don't blame people so much for not seeing around it. Perhaps because of my past (deeply in the box as a boy and young man) and because I think I keep finding myself just crawling out of one. Wakenings upon wakenings. Etc. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:58 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Skip Fox wrote: > Labeling is good. In fact Robert Duncan insisted that Donald Allen group > poets in _The New American Anthology_. He didn't label them, but the labels > became the ones we are now familiar with: Beat, Black Mountain, New York, > etc. Terrible labels in that they have nothing to do with the poetry being done. > But there is a danger with labels (classification blinds us to many > other ways of seeing, ignoring the interchange between, say, Beat poets and > Black Mountain poets, My brilliant solution: legalizing multiple labeling. > and making us feel we know the field because we can > classify it) A problem with fools, not with labels. Fools will find a way to think they know the field with or without labels. In fact, lack of labels makes it easy right now for academics to ignore just about everything except Iowa plaintext lyrical poetry. Oh, and formalist poetry. And what they think is "experimental" poetry--the long-passe jump-cut stuff of Ashbery. > and it has rather limited usefulness dealing with the enormous > amount of poets today, especially when compared to a computer (reader-poet) > dating service. > > How could it be useful? It is ignored--or violently opposed. > In fact I constantly hear poets complaining that, because of the > increasingly numbers, they feel invisible. If we could find our "groupings" > better, that may fulfill the role of a local scene, or a constellation of > poets one feels a part of (for reading and publishing purposes). > > That's half what's needed--a group, intelligently named. The other half is being named into a intelligent taxonomy inter-relating the various groups. De-ghettoizing. > Anthologies have been great for this as have list serves like this one. I'm > just thinking about another method using the advantage of the times > (technology) to help solve one of the frustrations of the times (not being > able to find the specific trees for the forest) > > Anthologies are no longer useful for this because there are too many of them. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Aug 21 14:04:31 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:04:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c7e408$f543c8c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e408$f543c8c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46CB292F.2070001@nut-n-but.net> Skip Fox wrote: > All good, and I agree, What??!! No, no, Skip! I won't allow it! > loving especially the notion that too many > anthologies confuses that which they were first meant to clarify (like > Donald Hall's 1958 _New Poets in England and America: An Anthology_ > countered by Donald Allen's _The New American Poetry, 1945-1960_) coming > after the mishmash of John Unterecker and Oscar Williams's anthologies of > modernists &c. > It may be that those two anthologies were the last to give the public a reasonable idea of what was going on in contemporary American poetry. Around ten years later, anthologies of note but not much circulation, added visual poetry to the mix, those by Mary Ellen Solt, Emmett Williams and Eugene Wildman, the Solt being commendable for its critical introduction, which gave about as solid a definition of visual poetry as was then available. Then a jump of 15 years or so to Ron Silliman's In The American Tree (1986), which established language poetry, but without a defining introduction that, in my view, is a tenth as useful for the species of poetry as Solt's was for visual poetry. But I haven't read it yet with full attention, so may be wrong. It seems to characterize language poetry as mostly not speech, by which "not referential" (as though that were possible) is apparently meant. I don't think this anthology is well-known, though. Maybe as valuable for another kind of poetry, slam poetry, is a 2003 anthology, The Spoken Word Revolution, edited by Mark Eleveld, that I have. It comes with a CD, so you can actually experience some of its poetry as . . . spoken! But what academic is aware of this anthology, even though Billy Collins wrote and introduction for it? Actually the more or less recent Poems for the Millenium, Joris and Rothenberg, are nearly mainstream, and much closer to covering the full range of poetry than any other anthologies I know of, but have too much slush, and poorly cover my favorite kinds of poetry. > The only disagreement is with the word "fools." It's right, of course, but > only if one defines a majority of the population as such. Only those in that majority who think they know a field because they are familiar with the label for it. > So, yes, but . . . > A lot of what might be considered foolish might just be conditioning and > acculturation. That they have been put so far into "the box" that they can > barely conceive of a box to "see out of." Well, not a bad definition of a fool, yes? Not that we haven't all been there--and therefore been fools. > I don't mind calling militant > adults like this "fools" (Bill O'Reilly, evolution deniers, etc.), but feel > that part of poetry's "political" message is to reflect or enact the world > in its complexities as a multivalent, intricate, astounding, horrifying > (etc.) place.. . . Not a comfortable box with settled definitions and clear > distinctions. > > And I think classification is a "wall" of the box for many (not just > botanists and zoologists of a century ago). I don't blame people so much for > not seeing around it. Perhaps because of my past (deeply in the box as a boy > and young man) and because I think I keep finding myself just crawling out > of one. Wakenings upon wakenings. Etc. > I see taxonomy's goal as making better boxes, and--especially--boxes inside boxes. They're necessary, and inevitable. Necessary, because you can't make sense of the world with them, however flawed many are; inevitable, because--in the final analysis--they're simply the making of names, which is all language is. Ergo, if we don't want them made by the wrong people (such as those making them deceptively for the sake of money or an ideology), we have to make them ourselves. --Bob From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 21 14:00:31 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:00:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry References: <000001c7e408$f543c8c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46CB292F.2070001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <001601c7e41d$2a8237b0$3dab3452@ANNY> Sorry for cutting out the previous message by Skip which is very interesting, Plato like with caves but boxes, and waiting for Bob's reaction which promptly arrived, I feel like siding with Bob and I think the same Derrida is happy with the idea of new boxes, let me add a couple of colorful balls, books, and movies, and I am just set. From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:04 PM > I see taxonomy's goal as making better boxes, and--especially--boxes > inside boxes. They're necessary, and inevitable. Necessary, because > you can't make sense of the world with them, however flawed many are; > inevitable, because--in the final analysis--they're simply the making of > names, which is all language is. Ergo, if we don't want them made by > the wrong people (such as those making them deceptively for the sake of > money or an ideology), we have to make them ourselves. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 21 15:21:19 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:21:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <001601c7e41d$2a8237b0$3dab3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <000001c7e428$79d670f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Respectfully, Derrida's box might be as limiting as many, just in a variant way. The correct way of looking at language is that it subverts itself, unsaying or contradicting what it seems to say. Very brilliant thinking and reading follow. (But that's only one way of thinking And some people put in at the blind end of a dead-end epistemological dead end/alley that began with Descartes. Don Byrd is the best example I know, believing that postmodernism is different in kind than modernism, which extended philosophically from Descartes' emphasis on epistemology. ) Anyway, I agree though do not pretend to understand all of the arguments. But at least as a radical intuitionalist (my label?), I intuitively know there are viable ways of thinking and being other than intuitively. And, of course, there's another side. Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd reply. skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:01 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Sorry for cutting out the previous message by Skip which is very interesting, Plato like with caves but boxes, and waiting for Bob's reaction which promptly arrived, I feel like siding with Bob and I think the same Derrida is happy with the idea of new boxes, let me add a couple of colorful balls, books, and movies, and I am just set. From: "Bob Grumman" < bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:04 PM > I see taxonomy's goal as making better boxes, and--especially--boxes > inside boxes. They're necessary, and inevitable. Necessary, because > you can't make sense of the world with them, however flawed many are; > inevitable, because--in the final analysis--they're simply the making of > names, which is all language is. Ergo, if we don't want them made by > the wrong people (such as those making them deceptively for the sake of > money or an ideology), we have to make them ourselves. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Tue Aug 21 15:33:54 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:33:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cormac McCarthy In-Reply-To: <000001c7e428$79d670f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c7e42a$3bad21f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:21 PM To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Respectfully, Derrida's box might be as limiting as many, just in a variant way. The correct way of looking at language is that it subverts itself, unsaying or contradicting what it seems to say. Very brilliant thinking and reading follow. (But that's only one way of thinking And some people put in at the blind end of a dead-end epistemological dead end/alley that began with Descartes. Don Byrd is the best example I know, believing that postmodernism is different in kind than modernism, which extended philosophically from Descartes' emphasis on epistemology. ) Anyway, I agree though do not pretend to understand all of the arguments. But at least as a radical intuitionalist (my label?), I intuitively know there are viable ways of thinking and being other than intuitively. And, of course, there's another side. Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd reply. skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:01 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Reading _The Road_ this morning I thought that one interesting way of looking at McCarthy is as though he is at continual war with romanticism. I mean, I think he's a romantic (as I am) but realizes in his work how hard that is to maintain. (Loving the novel by the way. In this dystopia the scene of regeneration, usually romantically reserved for nature and natural processes as in The Call of the Wild or "Big Two-Hearted River," occurs in a discovered fall-out shelter, one of the most unnatural of all places.) Like Frost's woods "lovely, dark, and deep." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 10:24:40 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <200708211600.l7LG05HL026737@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <299479.22476.qm@web35513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob Grumman wrote: "what they think is "experimental" poetry--the long-passe jump-cut stuff of Ashbery." Hear, hear, Bob. I see way too much of this for my taste. So have you/might you put together an anthol. or two for those under-informed amateurs of the visual and/or underrepresented poetries? Runaway Spoon to the rescue...? Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 22 10:54:16 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:54:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Talking Antho wars In-Reply-To: <46CB292F.2070001@nut-n-but.net> References: <000001c7e408$f543c8c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46CB292F.2070001@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <62459BCA-2C5C-4223-94C2-C95366DFCAD1@ripon.edu> On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Maybe as valuable for another kind of poetry, slam poetry, is a > 2003 anthology, The Spoken Word Revolution, edited by Mark Eleveld, > that I have. It comes with a CD, so you can actually experience > some of its poetry as . . . spoken! But what academic is aware of > this anthology, even though Billy Collins wrote and introduction > for it? > ------------------------------ I can't speak for other academics, but this one, at least, is well aware of the *Spoken Word Revolution*, which I've used as a text several times. There's a volume 2 out now, which I haven't yet read: anyone have a micro-review of that? The companion CD is annoyingly full of Marc Smith blather that could and should have been more poems, but it's still an excellent addition, one that I wish more anthologies included. There's a recent book, *The Face of Poetry*, that does so with a range of mostly mainstream voices. It documents a poetry reading series in California. From where I sit, one of the most fascinating developments of the past several decades has been the way poetry as an oral art has been revived in many different ways. I see performance poets and slammers as participating in a richly interesting & hardly monolithic tradition, carrying forward work done by the Beats, by Kenneth Rexroth, Amiri Baraka, Etheridge Knight, Lucille Clifton, Vachel Lindsey & Langston Hughes, et al. And ultimately all the way back to the ancients, of course, before there was any text at all. And there are quite a few recent anthologies that document, from various angles, the explosion of spoken word poetry & poetics. Many of the poems included are crap, of course, which is always the case with anthologies, but the phenomenon as a whole is well worth attending to. Opinions will definitely differ, but I don't think that the proportion of mediocrity in a book like *The Spoken Word Revolution* is any higher than what you'll find in, say, *Rebel Angels*. Unless, of course, you are unutterably opposed to the concept itself. . . . For that matter, when you look back at the original Donald Allen and HallPackSimpson anthologies, the usual rule applies: for every Philip Larkin there seem to be two or three Robert Layzers, for every Frank O'Hara, two or three Stuart Z. Perkoffs. . . . Spoken word has its characteristic flaws, and the slam world is of course rife with them; but the same is true of the poetry featured, say, in *Kenyon Review*. The best stuff emerging from the slam nation, such as Patricia Smith's poetry, holds its own with any poet out there, I believe. One thing I like a lot about *The Spoken Word* books is the way that the editors aim, in a small way, to bridge gaps between the open-mic world and the academic realm, including Billy Collins and Thomas Lux alongside Taylor Mali and Patricia Smith. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.mccall at navy.mil Wed Aug 22 11:11:49 2007 From: steven.mccall at navy.mil (Mccall, Steven NAVAIR) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:11:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <000001c7e428$79d670f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <001601c7e41d$2a8237b0$3dab3452@ANNY> <000001c7e428$79d670f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A1E7CA@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> ". . . Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd reply." Skip, I suspect instinct would kick in: you would either instinctually like a poem (or whatever) or you wouldn't, hang the reasons. It's kind of like a man seeking enlightenment: the man begins his journey as simpleminded, studies hard, meditates, becomes wise, sees through the illusions of what he's learned, then consciously returns to being simpleminded again--and now he's enlightened. Harold Bloom wrote about these "boxes", he was looking for a term to describe how one can be so far inside a literary tradition (scholarly, religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no longer distinguish the tradition from 'reality'. He gives Freudianism as an example, how we no longer realize that tropes like the ego or superego don't really exist as physical reality or modes of being, but we're so far inside the tradition that we talk about them literally. I don't think he ever found the word he was looking for. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 15:21 To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Respectfully, Derrida's box might be as limiting as many, just in a variant way. The correct way of looking at language is that it subverts itself, unsaying or contradicting what it seems to say. Very brilliant thinking and reading follow. (But that's only one way of thinking And some people put in at the blind end of a dead-end epistemological dead end/alley that began with Descartes. Don Byrd is the best example I know, believing that postmodernism is different in kind than modernism, which extended philosophically from Descartes' emphasis on epistemology. ) Anyway, I agree though do not pretend to understand all of the arguments. But at least as a radical intuitionalist (my label?), I intuitively know there are viable ways of thinking and being other than intuitively. And, of course, there's another side. Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd reply. skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:01 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Sorry for cutting out the previous message by Skip which is very interesting, Plato like with caves but boxes, and waiting for Bob's reaction which promptly arrived, I feel like siding with Bob and I think the same Derrida is happy with the idea of new boxes, let me add a couple of colorful balls, books, and movies, and I am just set. From: "Bob Grumman" > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:04 PM > I see taxonomy's goal as making better boxes, and--especially--boxes > inside boxes. They're necessary, and inevitable. Necessary, because > you can't make sense of the world with them, however flawed many are; > inevitable, because--in the final analysis--they're simply the making > of names, which is all language is. Ergo, if we don't want them made > by the wrong people (such as those making them deceptively for the > sake of money or an ideology), we have to make them ourselves. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 22 12:03:57 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:03:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A1E7CA@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> Message-ID: <000001c7e4d6$11bcd230$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Very much in agreement. Like what you wrote about instinct. I'd elaborate, maybe, though I can't say I've consciously thought of it, the answer to the query of what you might find if you could possibly get your head out of all the boxes it might be in (and I realize it can be seen as impossible). . . . But it if were possible (or to state the ideal possibility of one's reactive and thinking self in such a way), you might be a lovely, simple human creature, liking what you like as it occurs to you, regardless of ideology, cultural torque, academic acceptance, etc. On the second thought, maybe it's not so impossible after all (except in the macro-epistemological sense . . . you're always in past consciousness, bringing its conditions with you . . . but then the hell with epistemology !!! . . . that's my instinctual reaction Skip (But to say it more clearly, the hell with the questions of knowability as a major concern in one's life, much less the only one. It can, of course, be part of the entire.) skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Mccall, Steven NAVAIR Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:12 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry ". . . Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd reply." Skip, I suspect instinct would kick in: you would either instinctually like a poem (or whatever) or you wouldn't, hang the reasons. It's kind of like a man seeking enlightenment: the man begins his journey as simpleminded, studies hard, meditates, becomes wise, sees through the illusions of what he's learned, then consciously returns to being simpleminded again--and now he's enlightened. Harold Bloom wrote about these "boxes", he was looking for a term to describe how one can be so far inside a literary tradition (scholarly, religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no longer distinguish the tradition from 'reality'. He gives Freudianism as an example, how we no longer realize that tropes like the ego or superego don't really exist as physical reality or modes of being, but we're so far inside the tradition that we talk about them literally. I don't think he ever found the word he was looking for. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Fox Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 15:21 To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Respectfully, Derrida's box might be as limiting as many, just in a variant way. The correct way of looking at language is that it subverts itself, unsaying or contradicting what it seems to say. Very brilliant thinking and reading follow. (But that's only one way of thinking And some people put in at the blind end of a dead-end epistemological dead end/alley that began with Descartes. Don Byrd is the best example I know, believing that postmodernism is different in kind than modernism, which extended philosophically from Descartes' emphasis on epistemology. ) Anyway, I agree though do not pretend to understand all of the arguments. But at least as a radical intuitionalist (my label?), I intuitively know there are viable ways of thinking and being other than intuitively. And, of course, there's another side. Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd reply. skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:01 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry Sorry for cutting out the previous message by Skip which is very interesting, Plato like with caves but boxes, and waiting for Bob's reaction which promptly arrived, I feel like siding with Bob and I think the same Derrida is happy with the idea of new boxes, let me add a couple of colorful balls, books, and movies, and I am just set. From: "Bob Grumman" > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:04 PM > I see taxonomy's goal as making better boxes, and--especially--boxes > inside boxes. They're necessary, and inevitable. Necessary, because > you can't make sense of the world with them, however flawed many are; > inevitable, because--in the final analysis--they're simply the making > of names, which is all language is. Ergo, if we don't want them made > by the wrong people (such as those making them deceptively for the > sake of money or an ideology), we have to make them ourselves. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 22 13:27:42 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:27:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and poetry In-Reply-To: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A1E7CA@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> References: <001601c7e41d$2a8237b0$3dab3452@ANNY> <000001c7e428$79d670f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A1E7CA@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> Message-ID: <46CC720E.1030202@nut-n-but.net> Mccall, Steven NAVAIR wrote: > ". . . Bob might ask me what is there to see out of the box if there is > not another box to provide reference for seeing. I don't know what I'd > reply." > There's have to be other boxes, and unboxed material--all in a great big box. > Skip, > > I suspect instinct would kick in: you would either instinctually like a > poem (or whatever) or you wouldn't, hang the reasons. > Right. But boxes or labels are for understanding and communicating one's understanding about existence, not about liking something. To be satisfied to like something without being able to use words to give others ways to replicate your understanding is solipsistic. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Aug 22 12:58:44 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:58:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] arse poetica Message-ID: <46CC6B44.7030204@opus40.org> My ars poetica up at ars poetica. http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/archives/003583.html -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 22 13:02:32 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:02:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] arse poetica References: <46CC6B44.7030204@opus40.org> Message-ID: <005701c7e4de$3b0b2fd0$dea83852@ANNY> all right Sir! ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" ; "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry andpoetics" Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:58 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] arse poetica > My ars poetica up at ars poetica. > http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/archives/003583.html > > -- > Tad Richards > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 22 13:03:27 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:03:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] arse poetica In-Reply-To: <46CC6B44.7030204@opus40.org> Message-ID: <000001c7e4de$61c65910$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> "The poisoned floss, the severed necks of old women?" I guess I'm not alone. Nice piece. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of TheOldMole Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:59 AM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views; Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry andpoetics Subject: [New-Poetry] arse poetica My ars poetica up at ars poetica. http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/archives/003583.html -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 22 14:33:42 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:33:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Talking Antho wars In-Reply-To: <62459BCA-2C5C-4223-94C2-C95366DFCAD1@ripon.edu> References: <000001c7e408$f543c8c0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><46CB292F.2070001@nut-n-but.net> <62459BCA-2C5C-4223-94C2-C95366DFCAD1@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46CC8186.2070306@nut-n-but.net> A good anthology for what it does--but,. interestingly, you'd never know from it that this kind of ear-centered poetry extends into sound poetry, the auditory equivalent of visual poetry except even less known to the mainstream. --Bob G. From barry.spacks at verizon.net Wed Aug 22 13:44:08 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:44:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Ars Poetica from an Omnist In-Reply-To: <200708221600.l7MG06HK028090@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200708221600.l7MG06HK028090@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <608F1160-9559-4D08-BD8A-BEBCD2302D20@verizon.net> LABELS The words we use we become, shaped by sound after sound, by the choice of a theme, by the placing of a comma. But this apple's stuck-on label -- damned thing makes the apple less real. Some spin-meister works there diminishing native eloquence, glues his sticky concept-thing on the apple, intent to interfere. And so many people transformed into labels! (how does it feel to be forced to wear a Yellow Star?) Or they'll label themselves, they're walking billboards: "Buy this niche-demographic here!" "Bargain Days!" "Choose Me!" O, clean us, release us again to be taste, color, miracle, each unmarked dear one shining like an apple. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 22 16:13:31 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:13:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <299479.22476.qm@web35513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <299479.22476.qm@web35513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46CC98EB.6060603@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > Bob Grumman wrote: > "what they think is "experimental" poetry--the > long-passe jump-cut stuff of Ashbery." > > Hear, hear, Bob. I see way too much of this for my > taste. So have you/might you put together an anthol. > or two for those under-informed amateurs of the visual > and/or underrepresented poetries? > Runaway Spoon to the rescue...? > Amicalement, > Alex Sure, Alex, if you can get me a patron with deep pockets! My press is basically dead, except for the books by ME it is now publishing, because I am now feel a need to get all my stuff in print before I'm dead. It is running on credit card debt. But thanks for the support! --Bob From lethas1 at cox.net Wed Aug 22 15:17:32 2007 From: lethas1 at cox.net (Ed) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:17:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts Message-ID: <20070822191734.UKVG13525.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> I posted two more poetry videos today If you get the chance please check them out and let me know what you think (Both of these are songs as well) Have them posted on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-w_-5HFLtA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIOU-5gAvDo&mode=user&search= as well as on my MySpace page www.myspace.com/amayhem -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 15:30:43 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <200708221600.l7MG06HL028090@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <649539.56317.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "he was looking for a term to describe how one can be so far inside a literary tradition (scholarly, religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no longer distinguish the tradition from 'reality'." Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? Defined as the false belief that received ideas or values are "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of Critical Theory_). Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Wed Aug 22 15:48:56 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:48:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts References: <20070822191734.UKVG13525.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: Ed, I enjoyed both; but I like "I can't Write the Words" best. Keep sending them our way! ________________________________ From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu on behalf of Ed Sent: Wed 8/22/2007 12:17 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] from Ed Roberts I posted two more poetry videos today If you get the chance please check them out and let me know what you think (Both of these are songs as well) Have them posted on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-w_-5HFLtA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIOU-5gAvDo&mode=user&search = as well as on my MySpace page www.myspace.com/amayhem -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 22 18:41:19 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:41:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <649539.56317.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <649539.56317.qm@web35505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46CCBB8F.30206@nut-n-but.net> Alexander Dickow wrote: > "he was looking for a term to > describe how one can be so far inside a literary > tradition (scholarly, > religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no longer > distinguish the > tradition from 'reality'." > > Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? > Defined as the false belief that received ideas or > values are "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of > Critical Theory_). > Amicalement, > Alex > > I would never define "ideology" as you do here, Alex. Many ideologies are founded outside received ideas. I prefer "ideology" to be, as most dictionaries have it in their primary definitions of it, "an internally consistent body of concepts about some field." This, of course, is not what people who want to be able to believe anything they want to could like, so they have made it into an insult. Of course, there are bad ideologies--mainly the ones that are internally consistent but not consistent with reality. Ideologues are them what believes in such ideologies. --Bob G., ideologist but not, I hope, an ideologue From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 22 18:00:20 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:00:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Christopher Gilbert Message-ID: A wonderful poet died this summer, and I don't think I've seen any notice of his death. His name was Christopher Gilbert, and his one and only collection of poems appeared as part of the National Poetry Series in 1984, selected by Michael Harper. The book's long out of print, but you still see it in the used bookstores occasionally: *Across the Mutual Landscape*. I highly recommend this book. I hadn't seen Chris in over 25 years, but I gather he'd had some really rough times before he died. He wasn't yet 60 years old. This Bridge Across A moment comes to me and it's a lot like the dead who get in the way sometimes hanging around, with their ranks growing bigger by the second and the game of tag they play claiming whoever happens by. I try to put them off but the space between us is like a country growing closer which has a language I know more and more of me is growing up inside of, and the clincher is the nothing for me to do inside here except to face my dead as the spirits they are, find the parts of me in them -- call them back with my words. Ancestor worship or prayer? It's a kind of getting by-- an extension of living beyond my self my people taught me, and each moment is a boundary I will throw this bridge across. --Christopher Gilbert. Across the Mutual Landscape. Graywolf Press, 1984. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 22 21:17:23 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:17:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Talking Antho wars Message-ID: I have a recent issue of Rattle which contains a CD and features various slam and performance poets. _http://www.rattle.com/slam.htm_ (http://www.rattle.com/slam.htm) Finnegan In a message dated 8/22/2007 10:54:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Maybe as valuable for another kind of poetry, slam poetry, is a 2003 anthology, The Spoken Word Revolution, edited by Mark Eleveld, that I have. It comes with a CD, so you can actually experience some of its poetry as . . . spoken! But what academic is aware of this anthology, even though Billy Collins wrote and introduction for it? ------------------------------ I can't speak for other academics, but this one, at least, is well aware of the *Spoken Word Revolution*, which I've used as a text several times. There's a volume 2 out now, which I haven't yet read: anyone have a micro-review of that? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 22 22:49:10 2007 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:49:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Christopher Gilbert Message-ID: I remember that book and that name. Too bad. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 23 12:20:40 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:20:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Christopher Gilbert References: Message-ID: <005601c7e5a1$8c53dc70$c4ab3252@ANNY> It is a beautiful poem, thank you for sending it. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:00 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Christopher Gilbert A wonderful poet died this summer, and I don't think I've seen any notice of his death. His name was Christopher Gilbert, and his one and only collection of poems appeared as part of the National Poetry Series in 1984, selected by Michael Harper. The book's long out of print, but you still see it in the used bookstores occasionally: *Across the Mutual Landscape*. I highly recommend this book. I hadn't seen Chris in over 25 years, but I gather he'd had some really rough times before he died. He wasn't yet 60 years old. This Bridge Across A moment comes to me and it's a lot like the dead who get in the way sometimes hanging around, with their ranks growing bigger by the second and the game of tag they play claiming whoever happens by. I try to put them off but the space between us is like a country growing closer which has a language I know more and more of me is growing up inside of, and the clincher is the nothing for me to do inside here except to face my dead as the spirits they are, find the parts of me in them -- call them back with my words. Ancestor worship or prayer? It's a kind of getting by-- an extension of living beyond my self my people taught me, and each moment is a boundary I will throw this bridge across. --Christopher Gilbert. Across the Mutual Landscape. Graywolf Press, 1984. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 23 12:30:14 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:30:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Grace Paley (1922-2007) Message-ID: <6EA81F88-EFA5-42CE-8002-FC04773EEFE1@earthlink.net> Acclaimed Writer Grace Paley Dies at 84 By HILLEL ITALIE The Associated Press Thursday, August 23, 2007; 11:38 AM NEW YORK. -- Poet and short story writer Grace Paley, a literary eminence and old-fashioned rebel who described herself as a "combative pacifist," has died. She was 84. Paley, who had battled breast cancer, died Wednesday at her home in Thetford Hill, Vt., according to her husband, playwright Robert Nichols. "She was a great writer," said Jonathan Galassi, president of Farrar Straus & Giroux, which is about to publish a book of new Paley poetry. "Her sense of the vernacular of the particular world she came from was just wonderful. She was able to capture the humor and pathos in a certain New York voice." A published writer since the 1950s, Paley released only a handful of books over the next half century, mostly short stories and poems. Among her story collections were "Enormous Changes at the Last Minute," 1974, and "Later the Same Day," 1985. Writing was a passion, but not a compulsion: She never felt the need to put every experience into words. Her fiction, although highly praised, competed for time with work, activism, family and friends. "None of it happened, and yet every word of it is true," she once said of her fiction. "It's truth embedded in the lie." Paley, a longtime New Yorker, moved to Vermont in 1988 after having spent summers there. She was named state poet laureate in early 2003. "Artists are known for challenging convention," Gov. Jim Douglas said at the time. "Great artists like Grace Paley do that and more." In many ways, Paley wasn't a typical American writer. Her characters did not suffer "identity crises." Instead of living on the road, they stayed home, in Greenwich Village. They discussed politics, dared to take sides and belonged to clubs anxious to have them as members. "People talk of alienation and so forth," she said in a 1994 interview with The Associated Press. "I don't feel that. I feel angry at certain things, but I don't feel alienated from it. I feel disgusted with it, or mad, but I don't feel I'm not in it." She was a child of immigrants who seemed to embody a more intimate time, the kind of person strangers at readings would call by her first name. Short and heavyset, she had a round, open face, a warm smile and a friendly disarray of hair. Her voice was small and surprisingly girlish, with every thought seeming to occur to the speaker only at the moment she expressed it. Born Grace Goodside in New York in 1922, she was one of three children of Russian Jews. Her family spoke English, Russian and Yiddish, but politics proved the universal language. Her parents had opposed the czar in Russia and were supporters of the New Deal. The bitterest neighborhood feuds were not among drug dealers, but between Trotskyites and Stalinists. "I thought being Jewish meant you were a Socialist," Paley said. "Everyone on my block was a Socialist or a Communist. ... People would have serious, insane arguments, and it was nice. It makes you think the rest of the world is pretty bland." She started writing poems early and continued to do so even as she married a movie cameraman, Jess Paley, had two children, worked part time as a typist and became involved in community affairs around Greenwich Village. Paley began writing prose in the 1950s. Novels seemed too long _ she never wrote one _ so she turned to short stories. Although many of her pieces were rejected by magazines, an editor at Doubleday learned of her work and her first collection, "The Little Disturbances of Man: Stories of Men and Women at Love," was published in 1959. "I felt some of these stories, writing about women and writing about children, I had a reluctance to write for a while because it seemed to me it was not interesting," said Paley. The new book, tentatively titled "Fidelity: A Book of Poems," will be published early next year, Galassi said. Paley's fiction set an easy, informal tone, but was developed out of weeks and months of careful refinement, all sentences read aloud before being committed to paper. Many stories were not so much "stories" as conversations overheard, with fitting titles such as "Listening" and "Talking." Like longtime neighbors, Paley's characters become familiar faces, especially the compassionate Faith Darwin. It was typical of Paley that she did not look upon Faith as an alter ego but as someone who might have been a "good, close pal." At the same time, Paley was a self-described "combative pacifist" who joined the War Resisters League in the '60s and visited Hanoi on a peace mission. She was arrested in 1978 during an anti-nuclear protest on the White House lawn and for years could be found every Saturday passing out protest leaflets on a street corner near her New York apartment. "I happened to like the '60s a lot. I thought great things were happening then and I was glad my children were part of that generation. As an older person in the peace movement, I learned a lot from it. I mean I learned a LOT," Paley said. "So, I don't know where things went wrong, except, whatever happens in society, the society corrupts, eats up and takes over. ... But at the same time there's always this really small little hill of hope that's right in the middle of this. You see people from that period doing wonderful things, all the things they meant to do." Paley married Nichols in 1972. In the late 1990s, they formed Glad Day Books, which publishes political fiction and nonfiction. She never let fame or politics obscure her devotion to family, her stepson said. "A lot of well-known people are hard to access," Duncan Nichols, of Thetford, told the Valley News of Lebanon, N.H. "She was just the opposite. She was just a very family person. I think it's absolutely true that she would give someone the shirt off her back. She was just very, very generous that way, a people person rather than a reclusive artist type." ___ Associated Press writer John Curran in Montpelier, Vt., contributed to this report. == "There are some things that are so serious that you can only joke about them." --Niels Bohr Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 23 15:22:23 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:22:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Grace Paley dies at 84 In-Reply-To: <205702.14990.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <205702.14990.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9B3D21160A6A4-F78-B7CE@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Sad news...I heard her speak several times and she was always impressive as a person and for the kind of engaged life she represented... Writer and peace activist Grace Paley dies at 84; acclaimed for short stories, poems! BC-Obit-Paley,1013! Writer and peace activist Grace Paley dies at 84; acclaimed for short stories, poems! Eds: Moving on general news and entertainment services.! AP Photos NYET187-188! By HILLEL ITALIE" AP National Writer" NEW YORK. (AP) ? Poet and short story writer Grace Paley, a literary eminence and old-fashioned rebel who described herself as a ?combative pacifist,? has died. She was 84. Paley, who had battled breast cancer, died Wednesday at her home in Thetford Hill, Vt., according to her husband, playwright Robert Nichols. A published writer since the 1950s, Paley released only a handful of books over the next half century, mostly short stories and poems. Writing was a passion, but not a compulsion: She never felt the need to put every experience into words. Her fiction, although highly praised, competed for time with work, activism, family and friends. ?None of it happened, and yet every word of it is true,? she once said of her fiction. ?It's truth embedded in the lie.? Paley, a longtime New Yorker, moved to Vermont in 1988 after having spent summers here. She was named state poet laureate in early 2003. ?Artists are known for challenging convention,? said Gov. Jim Douglas at the time. ?Great artists like Grace Paley do that and more.? In many ways, Paley wasn't a typical American writer. Her characters did not suffer ?identity crises.? Instead of living on the road, they stayed home, in Greenwich Village. They discussed politics, dared to take sides and belonged to clubs anxious to have them as members. ?People talk of alienation and so forth,? she said in a 1994 interview with The Associated Press. ?I don't feel that. I feel angry at certain things, but I don't feel alienated from it. I feel disgusted with it, or mad, but I don't feel I'm not in it.? She was a child of immigrants who seemed to embody a more intimate time, the kind of person strangers at readings would call by her first name. Short and heavyset, she had a round, open face, a warm smile and a friendly disarray of hair. Her voice was small and surprisingly girlish, with every thought seeming to occur to the speaker only at the moment she expressed it. Born Grace Goodside in New York in 1922, she was one of three children of Russian Jews. Her family spoke English, Russian and Yiddish, but politics proved the universal language. Her parents had opposed the czar in Russia and were supporters of the New Deal. The bitterest neighborhood feuds were not among drug dealers, but between Trotskyites and Stalinists. ?I thought being Jewish meant you were a Socialist,? Paley said. ?Everyone on my block was a Socialist or a Communist. ... People would have serious, insane arguments, and it was nice. It makes you think the rest of the world is pretty bland.? She started writing poems early and continued to do so even as she married a movie cameraman, Jess Paley, had two children, worked part time as a typist and became involved in community affairs around Greenwich Village. Paley began writing prose in the 1950s. Novels seemed too long ? she never wrote one ? so she turned to short stories. Although many of her pieces were rejected by magazines, an editor at Doubleday learned of her work and her first collection, ?The Little Disturbances of Man: Stories of Men and Women at Love,? was published in 1959. ?I felt some of these stories, writing about women and writing about children, I had a reluctance to write for a while because it seemed to me it was not interesting,? said Paley, who published ?Enormous Changes at the Last Minute? in 1974 and ?Later in the Same Day? in 1985. Her collected stories came out in 1994. Paley's fiction set an easy, informal tone, but was developed out of weeks and months of careful refinement, all sentences read aloud before being committed to paper. Many stories were not so much ?stories? as conversations overheard, with fitting titles such as ?Listening? and ?Talking.? Like longtime neighbors, Paley's characters become familiar faces, especially the compassionate Faith Darwin. It was typical of Paley that she did not look upon Faith as an alter ego but as someone who might have been a ?good, close pal.? At the same time, Paley was a self-described ?combative pacifist? who joined the War Resisters League in the '60s and visited Hanoi on a peace mission. She was arrested in 1978 during an anti-nuclear protest on the White House lawn and for years could be found every Saturday passing out protest leaflets on a street corner near her New York apartment. ?I happened to like the '60s a lot. I thought great things were happening then and I was glad my children were part of that generation. As an older person in the peace movement, I learned a lot from it. I mean I learned a LOT,? Paley said. ?So, I don't know where things went wrong, except, whatever happens in society, the society corrupts, eats up and takes over. ... But at the same time there's always this really small little hill of hope that's right in the middle of this. You see people from that period doing wonderful things, all the things they meant to do.? Paley married Nichols in 1972. In the late 1990s, they formed Glad Day Books, which publishes political fiction and nonfiction. She never let fame or politics obscure her devotion to family, her stepson said. ?A lot of well-known people are hard to access,? said Duncan Nichols, of Thetford. ?She was just the opposite. She was just a very family person. I think it's absolutely true that she would give someone the shirt off her back. She was just very, very generous that way a people person rather than a reclusive artist type.? ??? Associated Press writer John Curran in Montpelier, Vt., contributed to this report. AP-ES-08-23-07 0952EDT! Bessy Reyna www.bessyreyna.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From screwzbaran at gmail.com Thu Aug 23 15:35:07 2007 From: screwzbaran at gmail.com (Suzanne Baran) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:35:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Grace Paley dies at 84 In-Reply-To: <8C9B3D21160A6A4-F78-B7CE@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <205702.14990.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8C9B3D21160A6A4-F78-B7CE@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <2d5ffa0b0708231235g504c355ch6d532c8c8bc1486a@mail.gmail.com> I met her once. She spoke at my University. A very lovely, humble and homely woman. On 8/23/07, jforjames at aol.com wrote: > > Sad news...I heard her speak several times and she was always impressive > as a person and for the kind of engaged life she represented... > > > > > > Writer and peace activist Grace Paley dies at 84; acclaimed for short > stories, poems! > BC-Obit-Paley,1013! > Writer and peace activist Grace Paley dies at 84; acclaimed for short > stories, poems! > Eds: Moving on general news and entertainment services.! > AP Photos NYET187-188! > By HILLEL ITALIE" > AP National Writer" > NEW YORK. (AP) ? Poet and short story writer Grace Paley, a literary > eminence and old-fashioned rebel who described herself as a "combative > pacifist," has died. She was 84. > Paley, who had battled breast cancer, died Wednesday at her home in > Thetford Hill, Vt., according to her husband, playwright Robert Nichols. > A published writer since the 1950s, Paley released only a handful of > books over the next half century, mostly short stories and poems. Writing > was a passion, but not a compulsion: She never felt the need to put every > experience into words. Her fiction, although highly praised, competed for > time with work, activism, family and friends. > "None of it happened, and yet every word of it is true," she once said of > her fiction. "It's truth embedded in the lie." > Paley, a longtime New Yorker, moved to Vermont in 1988 after having spent > summers here. She was named state poet laureate in early 2003. "Artists are > known for challenging convention," said Gov. Jim Douglas at the time. "Great > artists like Grace Paley do that and more." > In many ways, Paley wasn't a typical American writer. Her characters did > not suffer "identity crises." Instead of living on the road, they stayed > home, in Greenwich Village. They discussed politics, dared to take sides and > belonged to clubs anxious to have them as members. > "People talk of alienation and so forth," she said in a 1994 interview > with The Associated Press. "I don't feel that. I feel angry at certain > things, but I don't feel alienated from it. I feel disgusted with it, or > mad, but I don't feel I'm not in it." > She was a child of immigrants who seemed to embody a more intimate time, > the kind of person strangers at readings would call by her first name. Short > and heavyset, she had a round, open face, a warm smile and a friendly > disarray of hair. > Her voice was small and surprisingly girlish, with every thought seeming > to occur to the speaker only at the moment she expressed it. > Born Grace Goodside in New York in 1922, she was one of three children of > Russian Jews. Her family spoke English, Russian and Yiddish, but politics > proved the universal language. Her parents had opposed the czar in Russia > and were supporters of the New Deal. The bitterest neighborhood feuds were > not among drug dealers, but between Trotskyites and Stalinists. > "I thought being Jewish meant you were a Socialist," Paley said. > "Everyone on my block was a Socialist or a Communist. ... People would have > serious, insane arguments, and it was nice. It makes you think the rest of > the world is pretty bland." > She started writing poems early and continued to do so even as she > married a movie cameraman, Jess Paley, had two children, worked part time as > a typist and became involved in community affairs around Greenwich Village. > Paley began writing prose in the 1950s. > Novels seemed too long ? she never wrote one ? so she turned to short > stories. Although many of her pieces were rejected by magazines, an editor > at Doubleday learned of her work and her first collection, "The Little > Disturbances of Man: Stories of Men and Women at Love," was published in > 1959. > "I felt some of these stories, writing about women and writing about > children, I had a reluctance to write for a while because it seemed to me it > was not interesting," said Paley, who published "Enormous Changes at the > Last Minute" in 1974 and "Later in the Same Day" in 1985. Her collected > stories came out in 1994. > Paley's fiction set an easy, informal tone, but was developed out of > weeks and months of careful refinement, all sentences read aloud before > being committed to paper. Many stories were not so much "stories" as > conversations overheard, with fitting titles such as "Listening" and > "Talking." > Like longtime neighbors, Paley's characters become familiar faces, > especially the compassionate Faith Darwin. It was typical of Paley that she > did not look upon Faith as an alter ego but as someone who might have been a > "good, close pal." > At the same time, Paley was a self-described "combative pacifist" who > joined the War Resisters League in the '60s and visited Hanoi on a peace > mission. She was arrested in 1978 during an anti-nuclear protest on the > White House lawn and for years could be found every Saturday passing out > protest leaflets on a street corner near her New York apartment. > "I happened to like the '60s a lot. I thought great things were happening > then and I was glad my children were part of that generation. As an older > person in the peace movement, I learned a lot from it. I mean I learned a > LOT," Paley said. > "So, I don't know where things went wrong, except, whatever happens in > society, the society corrupts, eats up and takes over. ... But at the same > time there's always this really small little hill of hope that's right in > the middle of this. You see people from that period doing wonderful things, > all the things they meant to do." > Paley married Nichols in 1972. In the late 1990s, they formed Glad Day > Books, which publishes political fiction and nonfiction. > She never let fame or politics obscure her devotion to family, her > stepson said. > "A lot of well-known people are hard to access," said Duncan Nichols, of > Thetford. "She was just the opposite. She was just a very family person. I > think it's absolutely true that she would give someone the shirt off her > back. She was just very, very generous that way a people person rather than > a reclusive artist type." > ??? > Associated Press writer John Curran in Montpelier, Vt., contributed to > this report. > AP-ES-08-23-07 0952EDT! > > > > > Bessy Reyna > www.bessyreyna.com > ------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- "What is defeat in life? It is not merely making a mistake; defeat means giving up on yourself in the midst of difficulty. What is true success in life? True success means winning in your battle with yourself. Those who persist in the pursuit of their dreams, no matter what the hurdles, are winners in life, for they have won over their weaknesses." - Daisaku Ikeda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Aug 23 16:08:48 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:08:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Grace Paley dies at 84 In-Reply-To: <8C9B3D21160A6A4-F78-B7CE@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> References: <205702.14990.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8C9B3D21160A6A4-F78-B7CE@webmail-stg-d05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46CDE950.10500@opus40.org> I think she was an important writer and public figure both. This is sad news. jforjames at aol.com wrote: > Sad news...I heard her speak several times and she was always > impressive as a person and for the kind of engaged life she > represented... > > > > > > Writer and peace activist Grace Paley dies at 84; acclaimed for > short stories, poems! > BC-Obit-Paley,1013! > Writer and peace activist Grace Paley dies at 84; acclaimed for > short stories, poems! > Eds: Moving on general news and entertainment services.! > AP Photos NYET187-188! > By HILLEL ITALIE" > AP National Writer" > NEW YORK. (AP) ? Poet and short story writer Grace Paley, a > literary eminence and old-fashioned rebel who described herself as > a ?combative pacifist,? has died. She was 84. > Paley, who had battled breast cancer, died Wednesday at her home > in Thetford Hill, Vt., according to her husband, playwright Robert > Nichols. > A published writer since the 1950s, Paley released only a handful > of books over the next half century, mostly short stories and > poems. Writing was a passion, but not a compulsion: She never felt > the need to put every experience into words. Her fiction, although > highly praised, competed for time with work, activism, family and > friends. > ?None of it happened, and yet every word of it is true,? she once > said of her fiction. ?It's truth embedded in the lie.? > Paley, a longtime New Yorker, moved to Vermont in 1988 after > having spent summers here. She was named state poet laureate in > early 2003. ?Artists are known for challenging convention,? said > Gov. Jim Douglas at the time. ?Great artists like Grace Paley do > that and more.? > In many ways, Paley wasn't a typical American writer. Her > characters did not suffer ?identity crises.? Instead of living on > the road, they stayed home, in Greenwich Village. They discussed > politics, dared to take sides and belonged to clubs anxious to > have them as members. > ?People talk of alienation and so forth,? she said in a 1994 > interview with The Associated Press. ?I don't feel that. I feel > angry at certain things, but I don't feel alienated from it. I > feel disgusted with it, or mad, but I don't feel I'm not in it.? > She was a child of immigrants who seemed to embody a more > intimate time, the kind of person strangers at readings would call > by her first name. Short and heavyset, she had a round, open face, > a warm smile and a friendly disarray of hair. > Her voice was small and surprisingly girlish, with every thought > seeming to occur to the speaker only at the moment she expressed it. > Born Grace Goodside in New York in 1922, she was one of three > children of Russian Jews. Her family spoke English, Russian and > Yiddish, but politics proved the universal language. Her parents > had opposed the czar in Russia and were supporters of the New > Deal. The bitterest neighborhood feuds were not among drug > dealers, but between Trotskyites and Stalinists. > ?I thought being Jewish meant you were a Socialist,? Paley said. > ?Everyone on my block was a Socialist or a Communist. ... People > would have serious, insane arguments, and it was nice. It makes > you think the rest of the world is pretty bland.? > She started writing poems early and continued to do so even as > she married a movie cameraman, Jess Paley, had two children, > worked part time as a typist and became involved in community > affairs around Greenwich Village. > Paley began writing prose in the 1950s. > Novels seemed too long ? she never wrote one ? so she turned to > short stories. Although many of her pieces were rejected by > magazines, an editor at Doubleday learned of her work and her > first collection, ?The Little Disturbances of Man: Stories of Men > and Women at Love,? was published in 1959. > ?I felt some of these stories, writing about women and writing > about children, I had a reluctance to write for a while because it > seemed to me it was not interesting,? said Paley, who published > ?Enormous Changes at the Last Minute? in 1974 and ?Later in the > Same Day? in 1985. Her collected stories came out in 1994. > Paley's fiction set an easy, informal tone, but was developed out > of weeks and months of careful refinement, all sentences read > aloud before being committed to paper. Many stories were not so > much ?stories? as conversations overheard, with fitting titles > such as ?Listening? and ?Talking.? > Like longtime neighbors, Paley's characters become familiar > faces, especially the compassionate Faith Darwin. It was typical > of Paley that she did not look upon Faith as an alter ego but as > someone who might have been a ?good, close pal.? > At the same time, Paley was a self-described ?combative pacifist? > who joined the War Resisters League in the '60s and visited Hanoi > on a peace mission. She was arrested in 1978 during an > anti-nuclear protest on the White House lawn and for years could > be found every Saturday passing out protest leaflets on a street > corner near her New York apartment. > ?I happened to like the '60s a lot. I thought great things were > happening then and I was glad my children were part of that > generation. As an older person in the peace movement, I learned a > lot from it. I mean I learned a LOT,? Paley said. > ?So, I don't know where things went wrong, except, whatever > happens in society, the society corrupts, eats up and takes over. > ... But at the same time there's always this really small little > hill of hope that's right in the middle of this. You see people > from that period doing wonderful things, all the things they meant > to do.? > Paley married Nichols in 1972. In the late 1990s, they formed > Glad Day Books, which publishes political fiction and nonfiction. > She never let fame or politics obscure her devotion to family, > her stepson said. > ?A lot of well-known people are hard to access,? said Duncan > Nichols, of Thetford. ?She was just the opposite. She was just a > very family person. I think it's absolutely true that she would > give someone the shirt off her back. She was just very, very > generous that way a people person rather than a reclusive artist > type.? > ??? > Associated Press writer John Curran in Montpelier, Vt., > contributed to this report. > AP-ES-08-23-07 0952EDT! > > > > > Bessy Reyna > www.bessyreyna.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com* . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 16:34:40 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. In-Reply-To: <200708231600.l7NG05HL026883@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <872448.72068.qm@web35510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, Geuss actually provides a quite diplomatic survey of definitions of the term "ideology"; the one I provide is of more or less direct Marxist provenance, and is pejorative where other definitions are neutral. Your own definition is included by Geuss, in one of the neutral (and now very widespread) definitions: however, I think it's worth noting that a given "body of concepts about some field" does not necessarily entail "internal consistency": I would say discourse on culturally determined differences between genders and/or sexes constitutes an "ideology" with certain (relatively permeable) boundaries: but I certainly would not claim that that ideology is "internally consistent!" Sorry to hear that about Runaway Spoon, since there were some good books to be read in there, it seemed to me. Amicalement, Alex Bob Grumman wrote: >Alexander Dickow wrote: > "he was looking for a term to > describe how one can be so far inside a literary > tradition (scholarly, > religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no longer > distinguish the > tradition from 'reality'." > > Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? > Defined as the false belief that received ideas or > values are "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of > Critical Theory_). > Amicalement, > Alex > > I would never define "ideology" as you do here, Alex. Many ideologies are founded outside received ideas. I prefer "ideology" to be, as most dictionaries have it in their primary definitions of it, "an internally consistent body of concepts about some field." This, of course, is not what people who want to be able to believe anything they want to could like, so they have made it into an insult. Of course, there are bad ideologies--mainly the ones that are internally consistent but not consistent with reality. Ideologues are them what believes in such ideologies. --Bob G., ideologist but not, I hope, an ideologue www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Aug 23 17:04:34 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:04:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. In-Reply-To: <872448.72068.qm@web35510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c7e5c9$3b4f04d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I like Bob's definition of ideology as well (though disagree, etc.) and as well bumped over "internally consistent." I think the "internally" is night (the box), but "consistency" overly general if it was to include much of what I know ideologies consist of, including religious, political, theoretical ones. (In fact, that's one place Derrida is of fine use. . . . I'm never against the rational if it's not at the exclusion of all else, after all, it's another tool for "knowing," even if we mean that knowing to include a wide range of states, mostly cognizant; for instance proprioception is also a means of knowing of which we are often unaware). Anyway, Bob's definition is consistent with the awareness of him that I am building. Or, I should say, it's not so much "consistent" as it further adds to a my view of him as very interesting and intelligent artistic intelligence. So I liked the definition very much as it was his. skip -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:35 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. Bob, Geuss actually provides a quite diplomatic survey of definitions of the term "ideology"; the one I provide is of more or less direct Marxist provenance, and is pejorative where other definitions are neutral. Your own definition is included by Geuss, in one of the neutral (and now very widespread) definitions: however, I think it's worth noting that a given "body of concepts about some field" does not necessarily entail "internal consistency": I would say discourse on culturally determined differences between genders and/or sexes constitutes an "ideology" with certain (relatively permeable) boundaries: but I certainly would not claim that that ideology is "internally consistent!" Sorry to hear that about Runaway Spoon, since there were some good books to be read in there, it seemed to me. Amicalement, Alex Bob Grumman wrote: >Alexander Dickow wrote: > "he was looking for a term to > describe how one can be so far inside a literary > tradition (scholarly, > religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no longer > distinguish the > tradition from 'reality'." > > Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? > Defined as the false belief that received ideas or > values are "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of > Critical Theory_). > Amicalement, > Alex > > I would never define "ideology" as you do here, Alex. Many ideologies are founded outside received ideas. I prefer "ideology" to be, as most dictionaries have it in their primary definitions of it, "an internally consistent body of concepts about some field." This, of course, is not what people who want to be able to believe anything they want to could like, so they have made it into an insult. Of course, there are bad ideologies--mainly the ones that are internally consistent but not consistent with reality. Ideologues are them what believes in such ideologies. --Bob G., ideologist but not, I hope, an ideologue www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Thu Aug 23 17:28:00 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. In-Reply-To: <000001c7e5c9$3b4f04d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: I think what the "internally consistent" piece of that definition is maybe just an overly strong wording for something that ideologies generally exhibit, that is, some sort of logic or cohesiveness that holds the ideas together somewhat systematically. although the "somewhat" caveat there is important and should not be over looked. for example, i have for many years been fascinated by the cult of lyndon larouche in that their ideology, while being incoherent as well as rationally inconsistent, never the less forms the better part of a worldview that does have its own internal logic, albeit one that is very much different from what Buffy the Vampire Slayer once aptly described as "our Earth logic." which is of course the danger you encounter as soon as you start playing the definition game. Two or more people begin with a word that people are using to say similar but slightly different things. All parties then offer their own definition for the word which are then compared against eachother. Faced with nothing to choose between the definitions other than pragmatism or some intellectual bias, words used in the definition are then transmuted into further points of discussion with their own definitions being offered up, and on down the chain. The end result is usually either a well defined piece of jargon that has little bearing on the topic originally under discussion or, in the worst case scenario, a piece of patent nonsense. While both items have their uses, neither are particularly conducive to interpersonal understanding, which it should be recalled, is the stated goal of most persons attempting to play the definition game successfully. Many players, of course, have ulterior motives. I will say, however, that the marxist definition of ideology that alex offered as a pejorative seems to be inherently self-critical and of limited use as a result. ah wittgenstein... On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Skip Fox wrote: > I like Bob's definition of ideology as well (though disagree, etc.) and as > well bumped over "internally consistent." I think the "internally" is night > (the box), but "consistency" overly general if it was to include much of > what I know ideologies consist of, including religious, political, > theoretical ones. (In fact, that's one place Derrida is of fine use. . . . > I'm never against the rational if it's not at the exclusion of all else, > after all, it's another tool for "knowing," even if we mean that knowing to > include a wide range of states, mostly cognizant; for instance > proprioception is also a means of knowing of which we are often unaware). > > Anyway, Bob's definition is consistent with the awareness of him that I am > building. Or, I should say, it's not so much "consistent" as it further adds > to a my view of him as very interesting and intelligent artistic > intelligence. So I liked the definition very much as it was his. > > skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:35 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. > > Bob, > Geuss actually provides a quite diplomatic survey of > definitions of the term "ideology"; the one I provide > is of more or less direct Marxist provenance, and is > pejorative where other definitions are neutral. Your > own definition is included by Geuss, in one of the > neutral (and now very widespread) definitions: > however, I think it's worth noting that a given "body > of concepts about some field" does not necessarily > entail "internal consistency": I would say discourse > on culturally determined differences between genders > and/or sexes constitutes an "ideology" with certain > (relatively permeable) boundaries: but I certainly > would not claim that that ideology is "internally > consistent!" > Sorry to hear that about Runaway Spoon, since there > were some good books to be read in there, it seemed to > me. > Amicalement, > Alex > > Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Alexander Dickow wrote: >> "he was looking for a term to >> describe how one can be so far inside a literary >> tradition (scholarly, >> religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no > longer >> distinguish the >> tradition from 'reality'." >> >> Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? >> Defined as the false belief that received ideas or >> values are "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of >> Critical Theory_). >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> > I would never define "ideology" as you do here, Alex. > Many ideologies > are founded outside received ideas. I prefer > "ideology" to be, as most > > dictionaries have it in their primary definitions of > it, "an internally > > consistent body of concepts about some field." This, > of course, is not > > what people who want to be able to believe anything > they want to could > like, so they have made it into an insult. > > Of course, there are bad ideologies--mainly the ones > that are > internally > consistent but not consistent with reality. > Ideologues are them what > believes in such ideologies. > > --Bob G., ideologist but not, I hope, an ideologue > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu Thu Aug 23 17:32:51 2007 From: Sigauke at crc.losrios.edu (Sigauke, Emmanuel ) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:32:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. In-Reply-To: References: <000001c7e5c9$3b4f04d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Terry Eagleton does a good job in this regard. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jfq at myuw.net Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:28 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. I think what the "internally consistent" piece of that definition is maybe just an overly strong wording for something that ideologies generally exhibit, that is, some sort of logic or cohesiveness that holds the ideas together somewhat systematically. although the "somewhat" caveat there is important and should not be over looked. for example, i have for many years been fascinated by the cult of lyndon larouche in that their ideology, while being incoherent as well as rationally inconsistent, never the less forms the better part of a worldview that does have its own internal logic, albeit one that is very much different from what Buffy the Vampire Slayer once aptly described as "our Earth logic." which is of course the danger you encounter as soon as you start playing the definition game. Two or more people begin with a word that people are using to say similar but slightly different things. All parties then offer their own definition for the word which are then compared against eachother. Faced with nothing to choose between the definitions other than pragmatism or some intellectual bias, words used in the definition are then transmuted into further points of discussion with their own definitions being offered up, and on down the chain. The end result is usually either a well defined piece of jargon that has little bearing on the topic originally under discussion or, in the worst case scenario, a piece of patent nonsense. While both items have their uses, neither are particularly conducive to interpersonal understanding, which it should be recalled, is the stated goal of most persons attempting to play the definition game successfully. Many players, of course, have ulterior motives. I will say, however, that the marxist definition of ideology that alex offered as a pejorative seems to be inherently self-critical and of limited use as a result. ah wittgenstein... On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Skip Fox wrote: > I like Bob's definition of ideology as well (though disagree, etc.) > and as well bumped over "internally consistent." I think the > "internally" is night (the box), but "consistency" overly general if > it was to include much of what I know ideologies consist of, including > religious, political, theoretical ones. (In fact, that's one place Derrida is of fine use. . . . > I'm never against the rational if it's not at the exclusion of all > else, after all, it's another tool for "knowing," even if we mean that > knowing to include a wide range of states, mostly cognizant; for > instance proprioception is also a means of knowing of which we are often unaware). > > Anyway, Bob's definition is consistent with the awareness of him that > I am building. Or, I should say, it's not so much "consistent" as it > further adds to a my view of him as very interesting and intelligent > artistic intelligence. So I liked the definition very much as it was his. > > skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu > [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander > Dickow > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:35 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. > > Bob, > Geuss actually provides a quite diplomatic survey of definitions of > the term "ideology"; the one I provide is of more or less direct > Marxist provenance, and is pejorative where other definitions are > neutral. Your own definition is included by Geuss, in one of the > neutral (and now very widespread) definitions: > however, I think it's worth noting that a given "body of concepts > about some field" does not necessarily entail "internal consistency": > I would say discourse on culturally determined differences between > genders and/or sexes constitutes an "ideology" with certain > (relatively permeable) boundaries: but I certainly would not claim > that that ideology is "internally consistent!" > Sorry to hear that about Runaway Spoon, since there were some good > books to be read in there, it seemed to me. > Amicalement, > Alex > > Bob Grumman wrote: > >> Alexander Dickow wrote: >> "he was looking for a term to >> describe how one can be so far inside a literary tradition >> (scholarly, religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no > longer >> distinguish the >> tradition from 'reality'." >> >> Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? >> Defined as the false belief that received ideas or values are >> "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of Critical Theory_). >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> > I would never define "ideology" as you do here, Alex. > Many ideologies > are founded outside received ideas. I prefer "ideology" to be, as > most > > dictionaries have it in their primary definitions of it, "an > internally > > consistent body of concepts about some field." This, of course, is > not > > what people who want to be able to believe anything they want to could > like, so they have made it into an insult. > > Of course, there are bad ideologies--mainly the ones that are > internally consistent but not consistent with reality. > Ideologues are them what > believes in such ideologies. > > --Bob G., ideologist but not, I hope, an ideologue > > > www.alexdickow.net/blog/ > > les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin > merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 23 18:00:11 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:00:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. References: Message-ID: <003401c7e5d0$fa7e06b0$c4ab3252@ANNY> Philosophy, as we use the word, is a fight against the fascination which forms of expression exert upon us. Ludwig Wittgenstein --The Blue Book Poetry, as we use the word, is a surrender to the fascination which forms of expression exert upon us. James Finnegan Ideology, as we use the work, is a .... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:28 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. >I think what the "internally consistent" piece of that definition is maybe just an overly strong wording for something that ideologies generally exhibit, that is, some sort of logic or cohesiveness that holds the ideas together somewhat systematically. although the "somewhat" caveat there is important and should not be over looked. > > for example, i have for many years been fascinated by the cult of lyndon larouche in that their ideology, while being incoherent as well as rationally inconsistent, never the less forms the better part of a worldview that does have its own internal logic, albeit one that is very much different from what Buffy the Vampire Slayer once aptly described as "our Earth logic." > > which is of course the danger you encounter as soon as you start playing the definition game. Two or more people begin with a word that people are using to say similar but slightly different things. All parties then offer their own definition for the word which are then compared against eachother. Faced with nothing to choose between the definitions other than pragmatism or some intellectual bias, words used in the definition are then transmuted into further points of discussion with their own definitions being offered up, and on down the chain. The end result is usually either a well defined piece of jargon that has little bearing on the topic originally under discussion or, in the worst case scenario, a piece of patent nonsense. While both items have their uses, neither are particularly conducive to interpersonal understanding, which it should be recalled, is the stated goal of most persons > attempting to play the definition game successfully. Many players, of course, have ulterior motives. > > I will say, however, that the marxist definition of ideology that alex offered as a pejorative seems to be inherently self-critical and of limited use as a result. > > ah wittgenstein... > > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2007, Skip Fox wrote: > >> I like Bob's definition of ideology as well (though disagree, etc.) and as >> well bumped over "internally consistent." I think the "internally" is night >> (the box), but "consistency" overly general if it was to include much of >> what I know ideologies consist of, including religious, political, >> theoretical ones. (In fact, that's one place Derrida is of fine use. . . . >> I'm never against the rational if it's not at the exclusion of all else, >> after all, it's another tool for "knowing," even if we mean that knowing to >> include a wide range of states, mostly cognizant; for instance >> proprioception is also a means of knowing of which we are often unaware). >> >> Anyway, Bob's definition is consistent with the awareness of him that I am >> building. Or, I should say, it's not so much "consistent" as it further adds >> to a my view of him as very interesting and intelligent artistic >> intelligence. So I liked the definition very much as it was his. >> >> skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander Dickow >> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:35 PM >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. >> >> Bob, >> Geuss actually provides a quite diplomatic survey of >> definitions of the term "ideology"; the one I provide >> is of more or less direct Marxist provenance, and is >> pejorative where other definitions are neutral. Your >> own definition is included by Geuss, in one of the >> neutral (and now very widespread) definitions: >> however, I think it's worth noting that a given "body >> of concepts about some field" does not necessarily >> entail "internal consistency": I would say discourse >> on culturally determined differences between genders >> and/or sexes constitutes an "ideology" with certain >> (relatively permeable) boundaries: but I certainly >> would not claim that that ideology is "internally >> consistent!" >> Sorry to hear that about Runaway Spoon, since there >> were some good books to be read in there, it seemed to >> me. >> Amicalement, >> Alex >> >> Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> Alexander Dickow wrote: >>> "he was looking for a term to >>> describe how one can be so far inside a literary >>> tradition (scholarly, >>> religious, philosophical, etc) that one can no >> longer >>> distinguish the >>> tradition from 'reality'." >>> >>> Wouldn't the term he's looking for be "ideology"? >>> Defined as the false belief that received ideas or >>> values are "natural"? (cf. e.g. Geuss, _The Idea of >>> Critical Theory_). >>> Amicalement, >>> Alex >>> >>> >> I would never define "ideology" as you do here, Alex. >> Many ideologies >> are founded outside received ideas. I prefer >> "ideology" to be, as most >> >> dictionaries have it in their primary definitions of >> it, "an internally >> >> consistent body of concepts about some field." This, >> of course, is not >> >> what people who want to be able to believe anything >> they want to could >> like, so they have made it into an insult. >> >> Of course, there are bad ideologies--mainly the ones >> that are >> internally >> consistent but not consistent with reality. >> Ideologues are them what >> believes in such ideologies. >> >> --Bob G., ideologist but not, I hope, an ideologue >> >> >> www.alexdickow.net/blog/ >> >> les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin >> merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 23 18:01:58 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:01:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman Message-ID: <003d01c7e5d1$39fd5de0$c4ab3252@ANNY> I am sure this is interesting, I just started reading it: http://www.conjunctions.com/archives/c29-nm.htm Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimgoar at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 20:29:59 2007 From: jimgoar at yahoo.com (jim goar) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Catfish Press Has Two New Books For You Message-ID: <822576.55498.qm@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Know you have been waiting and waiting. Well, the waiting is over. Catfish Press has made two books, The Margaret Thatcher Trilogy by Richard Froude & Letters Toward Jim by Matthew Langley. Stacy Dacheux & Allan McLeod provided the lovely art for the books. Both books can be purchased from the Catfish Press website ( www.pastsimple.org/catfishfront.html )with PayPal. Both books are better than a cold Budweiser even better than drinking a cold Bud while floating in a lake in one of those floaty chairs. Trust me. Also on the site is our new Catfish jingle. It was written by Pirooz Kalayeh and Jim Goar and performed by Pirooz Kalayeh and The Slipshod Swingers. All in all, just dig. Take care, Jim ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Aug 23 21:44:10 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:44:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology defs. In-Reply-To: <000001c7e5c9$3b4f04d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e5c9$3b4f04d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46CE37EA.5020702@nut-n-but.net> Thanks for the kind words, Skip, but my intelligence is scientific!!!! It's my art that isn't. Thanks to other threaders for interesting thoughts and points to more on the subject. Right now I'm nearing my bedtime and not up to much of a reply. Will just say I was thinking black & whitely of the difference between people with ideologies and people without ideologies as people with principals versus people without principals--or, better, people without a systematic set of principals. On reflection aided by the other posters, I would agree that my definition is too stringent, and would take it down a notch from "internally consistent" to "attempting to be internally consistent, and more or less succeeding in doing that." What I want now are terms for (a) something like an ideology that is actually (within reason) internally consistent, and (b) something like an ideology that is insufficiently internally consistent to be one. Maybe (c), too, for some kind of view of life or a significant part of life that is wholly, or near-wholly free of ideology. Nihology? Tomorrow, if I'm up to it and have time, I'll expose part of my theory of psychology, which has to do with what I call "knowleplexes," which are large knowledges of interrelated data. --Bob G. From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Thu Aug 23 21:15:30 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:15:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman In-Reply-To: <003d01c7e5d1$39fd5de0$c4ab3252@ANNY> References: <003d01c7e5d1$39fd5de0$c4ab3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <46CE3132.6050009@opus40.org> My great-grandfather was a practitioner of Vocophy, which was the science of Vocational Guidance through Phrenology. Anny Ballardini wrote: > I am sure this is interesting, I just started reading it: > http://www.conjunctions.com/archives/c29-nm.htm > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 23 21:21:43 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:21:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitman In-Reply-To: <46CE3132.6050009@opus40.org> References: <003d01c7e5d1$39fd5de0$c4ab3252@ANNY> <46CE3132.6050009@opus40.org> Message-ID: <8C9B40443EEEE43-FAC-B3C1@webmail-stg-d09.sysops.aol.com> I know what you mean. After being tested they suggested I try to get hired at head shop.Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org Sent: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Whitman My great-grandfather was a practitioner of Vocophy, which was the science of Vocational Guidance through Phrenology. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 23:33:33 2007 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology In-Reply-To: <200708232330.l7NNU7HL003451@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <566151.610.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I liked Bob's definition too, and would agree with Jason about the "internal consistency" might simply be amended to "relative internal consistency" or something like that. I wasn't really arguing in favor of one definition or the other, I rather like the fact that words have multiple definitions. It's prettier ;) At any rate, most of the usefulness the pejorative use of the term once had has been relegated to more precise and rigorous (IMHO) terms like "hegemony" or "propaganda". I still think the pejorative definition of "ideology" would have fit what that one feller was talking 'bout, though. (Nyah ;) Jason, you might find odd, intriguing, mysterious and hilarious the fact that Larouche-minions seem to have a persistent presence in Rennes, France (and I suspect in other parts of France also). They used to hand out pamphlets in Place Hoche, and I remember with amusement the time they heckled a poor Americanist who spoke at a Fulbright event held at the Institut Franco-americain... Oh, those Larouchians. Gotta love those Cheney pictures with devil horns and red eyes, though, dontcha? :D Amicalement, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From millb at aol.com Fri Aug 24 00:10:04 2007 From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:10:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philomene Long In-Reply-To: <822576.55498.qm@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <822576.55498.qm@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9B41BC8A2C1FB-588-1D72@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> For those of you who knew her and her work, the poet Philomene Long died this week in Venice, CA.??For 17 years or so she was my neighbor and friend. Philomene Long was born in Greenwich Village. Among the very first sounds she heard were those of poets howling their poems and jumping out the windows. She had two principal influences in common with Jack Kerouac: St. Theresa and Huckleberry Finn. At the age of eighteen she entered a convent as a wild teenager. After five years behind cloister walls she escaped in the middle of the night down the side of a mountain to Venice West where she lived among the poets, saints, and mad ones. Philomene Long's books of poems include ODD PHENOMENON IN AN ABANDONED CITY, THE DREAM AWAKENING, THE GHOSTS OF VENICE WEST, THE BOOK OF SLEEP(with her husband, John Thomas), and her most recent book, PIERCING STONE WITH THE EYE OF ZEN. Her work has appeared in High Performance, the L.A. Times, the L.A. Weekly, Ten Directions, Caffeine, Black Ace, and Grand Passion: An Anthology of Los Angeles Poets and Beyond. She has directed seven films, including The California Missions (with Martin Sheen) and The Beats: An Existential Comedy (with Allen Ginsberg). She was active in the Venice literary community--especially Beyond Baroque. http://www.smmirror.com/volume3/issue51/the_beat_queen.asp ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Aug 24 08:40:03 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:40:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Philomene Long In-Reply-To: <8C9B41BC8A2C1FB-588-1D72@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> References: <822576.55498.qm@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8C9B41BC8A2C1FB-588-1D72@mblk-d15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46CED1A3.1080802@opus40.org> She sounds fascinating. I'll look for her work. millb at aol.com wrote: > > For those of you who knew her and her work, the poet Philomene Long > died this week in Venice, CA. For 17 years or so she was my neighbor > and friend. > > Philomene Long was born in Greenwich Village. Among the very first > sounds she heard were those of poets howling their poems and jumping > out the windows. She had two principal influences in common with Jack > Kerouac: St. Theresa and Huckleberry Finn. At the age of eighteen she > entered a convent as a wild teenager. After five years behind cloister > walls she escaped in the middle of the night down the side of a > mountain to Venice West where she lived among the poets, saints, and > mad ones. > > Philomene Long's books of poems include *ODD PHENOMENON IN AN > ABANDONED CITY*, *THE DREAM AWAKENING*, *THE GHOSTS OF VENICE WEST*, > *THE BOOK OF SLEEP*(with her husband, John Thomas), and her most > recent book, *PIERCING STONE WITH THE EYE OF ZEN.* Her work has > appeared in /*High Performance*/, /*the L.A. Times*/, /*the L.A. > Weekly*/, /*Ten Directions*/, /*Caffeine*/, /*Black Ace*/, and /*Grand > Passion: An Anthology of Los Angeles Poets and Beyond*/. She has > directed seven films, including *The California Missions *(with Martin > Sheen) and *The Beats: An Existential Comedy* (with Allen Ginsberg). > > She was active in the Venice literary community--especially Beyond > Baroque. > > http://www.smmirror.com/volume3/issue51/the_beat_queen.asp > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Aug 24 10:28:08 2007 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:28:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Parini on Simic Message-ID: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/08/ a_poet_who_deserves_his_laurel.html Brief appreciation of Simic by Jay Parini. An excerpt: Fear Fear passes from man to man Unknowing, As one leaf passes its shudder To another. All at once the whole tree is trembling. And there is no sign of the wind. Simic has often been called a surrealist, but I don't think that means much. His poems are just wonderfully odd. They exist in a realm that lies beyond reality, to be sure; but they pull us back into this space where we really do live, "reality." In the poem above, so typical of his work, he establishes a dominant image/metaphor. It's a "deep image", as critics like to say; it lives at the centre of the poem like a watermark in a piece of paper. The poet works the metaphor intensely. There is a strongly political side to Simic, too, although it's oblique. . . . ------------------- ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Aug 24 12:10:34 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:10:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scientific artistic intelligence??? In-Reply-To: <46CA46A4.4080304@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000001c7e669$537e7720$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Can one's artistic intelligence be scientific? I'd say yes (at risk of "category error" in Bob's mind) as with Christian Bok in large part. And it might be said about Marianne Moore and William Carlos Williams to a lesser extent. Just like it could be philosophical (Stevens, William Bronk?, Gerald Burns, who called himself a "hunter of category error") or anything else: mathematical, musical, dramatic, historical, political, etc. If one is largely informed by science (or any of the others, whether or not so "employed"), then it seems to follow. I think Bob's scientific and (pragmatic?) philosophical mind can be seen in what I have "read" of his work. Who are other "scientific poets"? (I think we were posting about this earlier; did we have anyone other than Bok?) From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 24 16:53:17 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:53:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_eps_114=3A_jorge_sol=EDs_arena?= =?iso-8859-1?q?zas/_jorge_debravo_=281938-1967=29/_cuarto_aniversa?= =?iso-8859-1?q?rio?= Message-ID: <000b01c7e690$cc3e9100$aeeb3652@ANNY> For those who can read Spanish Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:37 PM Subject: eps 114: jorge sol?s arenazas/ jorge debravo (1938-1967)/ cuarto aniversario n114[20.08.07] elpoemaseminal jorge sol?s arenazas/ jorge debravo (1938-1967) CUARTO ANIVERSARIO atisbos Hace cuatro a?os comenz? la aventura de divulgar algunos poemas y autores que se presentaban como urgentes. Luego de ese lapso, seguimos con el mismo entusiasmo por compartir algunos hallazgos que pueden capturar la atenci?n de los amantes del verso. Nuevos amigos y amigas se han unido al proyecto y juntos seguimos en la trinchera de la poes?a, menesterosos y expectantes, pues nos invade, a veces, la certeza de que la diosa blanca ronda por todas partes... Para celebrar, proponemos la lectura de dos poetas: uno actual y en plena fase creativa, Jorge Sol?s Arenazas, y otro ya ido, hace exactamente 40 a?os, Jorge Debravo, referencia fundamental de la poes?a costarricense. APUNTES Y ALGUNAS CLAVES PARA LEER CUADERNO DE AGUA, DE JORGE SOL?S ARENAZAS, PREMIO EL?AS NANDINO 2006 Rams?s Salanueva Rodr?guez El ideal contempor?neo de las artes se relaciona con la individualidad, ya que, es a partir de uno, que la experiencia cognoscitiva puede explicar los fen?menos de la creaci?n. Es com?n que los poetas j?venes de todas las ?pocas tiendan, en busca de esa quimera llamada originalidad, a fantasear sobre un estilo puro, jam?s visto y de una maquinaria tan compleja que s?lo su creador pueda activarla. El alejamiento de la tradici?n es un efecto natural de esta b?squeda, pues en pos de un acendrado expresionismo se sacrifica la funci?n comunicacional del poema. Pocos son los que logran conciliar estas fuentes originales. Sin duda que la obra de Rimbaud, por mencionar un lugar com?n de lo que digo, ilustra con detalle lo que refiero. Suceso similar acontece en la opera prima del poeta Jorge Sol?s Arenazas, Cuaderno de agua, poemario ganador del certamen de poes?a joven El?as Nandino 2006, y que reci?n ha publicado la editorial Tierra Adentro. Sabemos que este libro que destaca por esa individualidad creativa de la que ya hemos hablado, es producto de una crisis de salud con un cuadro de insomnio y alucinaciones que aquejaron al poeta. El insomnio es un desorden del sue?o, el insomnio es el catalizador de la vigilia, la vigilia es el camino donde ascetas y malditos buscan la verdad, o al menos una interpretaci?n de ella. Cuando abr? las hojas de Cuaderno de Agua, tuve la visi?n de caminar en una sala de espejos, flanqueada por una prolongada arboleda. El primer capitulo del poemario se titula Tabula rasa, la mente zen de la no idea, el tr?nsito de las cosas sin precisar su significado, mantener la mente en blanco no es fuga, sino dominio del pensamiento. "Lo que ves es todo lo que es. El ojo es todo lo que hay El hay generalmente indica se?ala o advierte A veces representa realiza reacciona reitera..." Estos versos corresponden al poema 1 del compendio. Nos parece que la primera clave de la reflexi?n po?tica de Sol?s Arenazas, se descubre. El inter?s del poeta es orden teol?gico, y anat?mico. Ren? Guen?n en su estudio sobre los S?mbolos fundamentales de la ciencia sagrada, advierte que en la tradici?n judeo-cristiana -el ojo que todo lo ve- representa la vigilia del divino. "Desde el punto de vista del triple tiempo, (se?ala Guen?n), la luna y el ojo izquierdo corresponden al pasado, el sol y el ojo derecho al porvenir; y el tercer ojo, al presente, es decir, al instante indivisible que, entre el pasado y el porvenir, es como un reflejo de la eternidad en el tiempo", precisa el filosofo franc?s. Por otro lado, de manera org?nica, el ojo es la victima inmediata del insomnio y la lente donde las visiones po?ticas primeramente se recrean. Poema 6 a El ojo ve lo que es tambi?n en su inversi?n. anverso y reverso quebrantan el habitar del signo: el ojo es lo que ves: ojo siempre, ojo en ambas direcci?n de la vista. su ruta palindr?mica lo asfixia: el ojo no es todo lo que ves: es/ fugacidad del aparecer. Despu?s muere renuncia: El ojo ya no es un ojo ni otro ojo. Pero encontramos otro significado, el ojo del coraz?n, en su representaci?n jerogl?fica representa un germen contenido en el coraz?n asimilado simb?licamente a un fruto en el sentido del macro y microcosmos. La virtud palindr?mica de la palabra ojo, ense?a al poeta que la letra en si es transmutable en sus significados. De ello da cuenta el poema 8: "El ojo tambi?n se escribe al rev?s". Para ello, nuestro autor recurre a la figura del castor: "Simulacro de la imagen, la ra?z/ deletrea todas las esquinas sin resolver". Aqu? la palabra deja de ser un signo para transformarse en un referente de la realidad aparente, pues con ella tambi?n puede escribirse Trocas. "Talar el ?rbol -abedul. Amante, olmo- /separa los d?as de los hombres. En trocadero se permite al rev?s: Talar lo que se tala s?lo con el ojo". y Costra. "El residuo de un tiempo no mueve/ las letras, no altera el lugar de su equilibrio". El primer acercamiento a este extra?o libro de poemas nos plantea obligadamente una pregunta, de d?nde surge la voz in?dita de este poeta. Qu? es esta poes?a. "En mi proyecto de escritura descubr? que la poes?a, m?s que buscar una trascendencia ten?a que ver con los l?mites del lenguaje en el mundo formal. Me interes? el silencio, lugar donde el lenguaje no puede llegar y que para m? representa una ense?anza sobre los propios l?mites y nuestra finitud". Declar? nuestra vate a Jos? Lara, rese?ista literario del programa Tierra Adentro. Las relaciones del insomnio y el silencio son evidentes, el sigilo viaja en el interior psique mediante vibraciones de baja frecuencia. Es el sonido agudo de la hipertensi?n, es la profundidad del eco m?s oscuro de la noche. El siguiente apartado se denomina Debajo del Mu??n del Pulpo y es la ?nica relaci?n literal que existe con el elemento que la da nombre al poemario. Arenazas se refiere al mar, como "Una puerta siempre abierta/ sin posibilidad de muros". Y luego aparece nuestro sustantivo, "Nada sino la fluctuaci?n del pulpo/ apenas su tinta respirando/ margen de s? la ausencia de la pared que lo sit?e/ una puerta -siempre cerrada-/ que no halle su agua y sea su fluctuaci?n/ La misma piedra desprendida/ El mu??n del pulpo/ el muro en s?/ y el mar como margen de su tinta/ respirando agua". En este poema es dif?cil saber d?nde empieza la tradici?n y d?nde se agrega la vanguardia. El poema es una repetici?n de la imagen seguida de su movimiento. Una escena fractal que avanza en el espacio a partir de la clonaci?n de sus elementos. No extra?a saber que el pulpo es el invertebrado acu?tico con mayor inteligencia. Tal vez sea esta una animaci?n del hombre primigenio. Para la tercera parte, el autor eligi? como t?tulo la palabra "Escolios", vocablo que sirve para nombrar las introducciones que se escriben acerca de textos antiguos. La secci?n se encarga de la metaf?sica, de las limitadas posibilidades del ser, y la irremediable perdida del tiempo. Arenazas reconoce que est? inspirada en la lectura total del escritor de los Cantares, Ezta Pound. ?Qu? puede alcanzar la orilla de ese ?rbol si las cosas no poseen un centro? Si la fronda se mueve, no es el viento quien la agita: algo la muerde por dentro. No la sacuden la pagina en su espera, ni los trabajos en la sima del nombre y el lugar. Tampoco la separaci?n donde sus elementos dicen "Yo" ante la pregunta. Ni porci?n ni ser sus frutos: sesgada la lectura desde el cuerpo, la pagina deviene sin memoria. El presente perpet?o, se reconoce en el ?ltimo texto del discurso. A d?nde vamos cuando no se tiene memoria ni perspectiva del porvenir. :no s? -excepto por la parte inferior- si la pagina permanezca en su blancura. No s? si exista el espacio sin alteraci?n. "Ayer le? que este tiempo ya era pasado". No lo s?, no conozco este tiempo, no conozco otro tiempo, no conozco la pagina, nunca he visto la historia. Nos responde en su poema el escritor. Conviene decir que la est?tica en la obra de Sol?s se supedita a la raz?n, y a la vez "est? en contra de la falacia del poder ad?nico que nombra al ser". "Desconf?o de los poemas que dan la impresi?n de que el lenguaje y el ser son puros, inmediatos, as?pticos. Este tipo de lenguajes pueden funcionar desde una perspectiva est?tica pero la poes?a no puede circunscribirse ?nicamente a ello", expresa el poeta y agrega: "No queremos una realidad m?s linda, sino una realidad m?s extra?a e intensa" se?ala el autor. La sustancia medular de Cuaderno de Agua, es el tercer discernimiento simplemente nombrado Cuaderno se desarrolla en el lago de Xochimilco.. Ahora nos ocuparemos del otro s?mbolo que define la escritura de Solis Arenazas, el ?rbol. Designado por los m?sticos como el "eje del mundo", diversos ?rboles crecen en los parajes interiores de este creador. "Ayer piedra dice un ?lamo", M?s arriba un chachajo dice "Augur es el lugar" "Piedra a?n grita el Ahuizote. No existe hiato desde la rama. Nada que lea fatiga en la cortezA De nueva cuenta nos remitimos a los S?mbolos fundamentales de la ciencia sagrada, de Ren? Guen?n, tambi?n conocido al final de sus d?as como el sufi egipcio Abdel Wahid Yahia. Dice Guen?n, que Ananda Coomaraswamy, otro ocultista de renombre de origen indo-ingl?s, que las ra?ces del ?rbol representan el principio, mientras que las ramas representan el despliegue de la manifestaci?n. En su estado axial, el ?rbol conecta con sus ramas al cielo, es decir la esfera espiritual, con el plano terrestre, la conciencia humana, a trav?s de sus ra?ces, que por cierto se introducen en el bajo mundo para afianzar su estatura. Esta es una representaci?n del macrocosmos. En lo m?s rec?ndito de un ?lamo //el centro escardado de su m?dula// se forma otro remolino con las paginas arrancadas a un cuaderno sitio de la imposibilidad de las presencias. "El ?rbol invertido simboliza el microcosmos, es decir un s?mbolo del hombre", apunta Guen?n. Plat?n dice en el cap?tulo 89 del Timeo, que "el hombre es una planta celeste" lo que significa que es como un ?rbol invertido, cuyas ra?ces tienden hacia el cielo, y las ramas hacia abajo, hacia la tierra. Parece ser que en Cuaderno de Agua, Arenazas lleg? a esta conclusi?n: "Los ?rboles son estalagmitas cuya tinta se resuelve en el silencio", se?ala al final de uno de sus poemas. En otro de sus textos, Sol?s no deja dudas sobre la imperiosa reflexi?n que le causa este s?mbolo. Un fragmente del poema dice as?: Un tronco bebe tiempo, emprende el retorno. La hojas han sido arrancadas para formar un diapas?n. En este instante me s? una glosa de la piedra, aunque la sombra del ?rbol me d? luz. Me pregunto que forma tienen al anochecer los ?rboles/ si existe la noche fuera de ellos. Veo un florilegio de im?genes rotas donde el sol yace/ en el momento que se rompe el sol y deja retazos de luz reunidos bajo la forma de sauce. Este oto?o ha tra?do m?s olvido y presencio la demolida luz que dejar? la marcharse Pero no me atrevo a que esta sea la ?ltima frase, aunque el silencio exige senas para escapar no se si de mi traquea o de una serpiente que ignora la existencia del ?rbol del bien y del mal. El s?mbolo de la serpiente enrollada alrededor del ?rbol es antiguo y nos refiere el entorno de la espiral, el eterno retorno. La direcci?n en que la cabeza de la serpiente se puede encontrar de muestra su poder dual, si es de manera ascendente, hacia los estados superiores, o bien descendente, hacia los terrenos subyugantes, estos son los dos aspectos del simbolismo de la serpiente, ben?fico uno y mal?fico el otro, explica en Guen?n en su libro El simbolismo de la cruz. No hablaremos aqu? de todos las aplicaciones simb?licas del ?rbol, s?lo hemos destacado algunos casos concretos de su presencia en la po?tica de Sol?s Arenazas. En este movimiento se presenta otra apertura; se presencia el advenimiento de una frase que hab?a estado oculta, esperando que// No hay nadie; s?lo son los ?rboles. As? concluyen las revelaciones de este libro secreto, labrado con el mismo vac?o que sustenta la madrugada, y tambi?n con la luminosidad que surge de la concepci?n de las ideas. Como antes lo se?alaron sus rese?istas, Cuaderno de agua se relaciona por sus rasgos verbales con Canto para un dios mineral, de Jorge Cuesta y tambi?n con Variaciones sobre un tema, de Mall?rme, del cual leemos el siguiente fragmento que ilustra perfectamente el -ars po?tica- de Sol?s Arenazas. "La obra pura implica la desaparici?n elocutoria del poeta, que cede la iniciativa a las palabras, por el choque de su disparidad movilizada: se encienden con reflejos rec?procos como virtual reguero de luces en la pedrer?a, reemplazando la respiraci?n perceptible en el antiguo aliento l?rico o la entusiasta direcci?n personal de la frase". Sol?s ha dicho que con este libro intent? recuperar la tradici?n po?tica de las vanguardias del siglo XX. Intento que nos parece bien logrado. Algo sorprendente si se toma en cuenta que Sol?s Arenazas es un poeta autodidacta, que nunca asisti? a un taller literario. Menciona el poeta que la persona que le despert? la inquietud po?tica fue su abuelo Modesto Sol?s, un viejo sastre y un maestro de la conversaci?n. "Al escucharlo, desde peque?o, empec? a configurar mi mundo desde la dimensi?n verbal", se?al? el poeta. Dejemos pues al creador hacer su trabajo, dispong?monos a escuchar su poes?a y que haya salud y gloria para los que hoy estamos aqu? reunidos. www.desdeabajo.org.mx/wordpress/?p=634 testimonios TABULA RASA 3 FE DE ERRATAS Donde dice: "Ojo" debe decir algo m?s. No el vocablo diferente, la diferencia. * Donde dice: "Ojo", podr?a seguir diciendo "Ojo" si el signo se trascendiera. Incluso podr?a decir "Ojo" -en una red inmensa donde la posibilidad fuera el camino de lo total. As? -"Ojo" ser?a su alteridad * Donde dice: "Ojo" tambi?n podr?a decir: Donde dice Ojo debe decir... * Donde dice: Donde dice debe decir, podr?a ya no decir nada pero abrir una ruta, trazar una huella que no es exactamente ella misma y que lee mapas -en la totalidad del espacio, hacia ning?n lugar. * Donde dice: ...debe decir, debe decir: Cerrado. 5 ahora que So-Shu es mariposa hay un cuerpo vacante cada cuerpo deshabitado contiene a quien lo acecha la realidad del cuerpo est? en tal habitaci?n y su fibra primaria est? en el Ojo qu? mira el cuerpo qu? puede ver de todo lo que es qu? se establece como cuerpo y no como signo que le depara otro espacio los ojos de las mariposas no tienen dientes talan el aire apoyadas en el sentido del vuelo el sue?o les vence incluso detr?s del Ojo y acomodan as? su verdad su eterno mudar de huella su intercambio de cuerpos para ese Ojo que ya no mira sino c?mo mira los ojos sin dientes de las mariposas So-Shu es la errancia que implica todo cuerpo la mariposa tala su habitar en ese plano de abandono y su ?nico Ojo es apetito/ retorno el Ojo es todo lo que es 9 La escritura de lo que no ves. Apenas una resistencia. Tan s?lo un l?mite donde hay un secuestro sin reo. El filamento sin mirada ni cuerpo mirado. La mariposa abierta, el correlativo cuerpo vacante, acechado, perseguido, tala en el apunte de un ciego. El castor se borra a s? mismo. La noche vuelve a escribirlo. Se puede ver en su condici?n original. La huella. Lo que ves. Lo que no es. Se mueve el ancla entre el fragmento y la ra?z. El Ojo es alteridad sin hilos partidos ni rompecabezas duales. Nueva ra?z que da luz en la periferia. Tabula rasa. El Ojo / la escritura de lo que no es * Agua adentro ve la ausencia Sin alzarse como constelaci?n otra vista que el tent?culo no realiza merodea un signo Agua dentro del agua Huella de huellas la negaci?n: No hay arena y agua es piedra M?s que fronda es otro afuera Adentro del nombre tentacular todo frasea el agua * P?a la p?gina o p?lipo persiguiendo el punto Se dicta con el vocablo del tent?culo perdido Mu??n que tambi?n dicta lo acuoso en su pregunta Palabra el pulpo en la pregunta Cada p?gina, otro tent?culo sintiendo su ligereza al despedirse En el mar otra ausencia es dimensi?n de agua : no s? -excepto por la parte inferior-si la p?gina permanezca en su blancura. No s? si exista el espacio sin alteraci?n. Ayer le? que "ese tiempo era ya pasado". No lo s?: no conozco este tiempo, no conozco otro tiempo. No conozco la p?gina, nunca he visto la historia. A veces veo la merluza destrozada: A veces... Pero no conozco ni conoc? el instante de la p?gina eb?rnea. No s? -excepto por la parte inferior- si esta p?gina se conserve en su silencio original. Tampoco s? -salvo en algunos momentos que se me escapan- si las hojas del albaricoque se muevan de oeste a este: s?lo s? que no puedo evitar su ca?da. * Ni el nombre ni la letra guardan su historia. ?nicamente la m?dula del ?rbol. Los abecedarios fundados en la epilepsia. El espacio, no la concreci?n de los sitios: la direcci?n asumida por las ramas, el blas?n de los restos de corteza despojados por otro olvido. El binomio que se borra sin latitud. La muerte de un ocote. Antes, la extracci?n del es?fago de un ni?o (alimentado por caucho: ramas). * El D?a nace dentro de mi sangre. Vuelvo a presentir todo, la ruptura total de los par?ntesis por la presencia. El D?a navega por dos planos: el agua y la sangre vuelta a su interior. Al abrirse, los muros limitan el calendario -su erosi?n. La luz rompe el hechizo que de cable y escritorio la ce??a; algo destruye al escribano. La trajinera -sin creer en la posibilidad de su nombre en flores- tira su remo para que todo marche hacia el Respiro. * Ra?z silente, ramas paticipando de su l?mite. Ahora lo ?nico que puede presentirse es un despojo, la parquedad de la palabra: Es. La posibilidad del ?rbol s?lo puede cumplirse adentro de s? mismo: afuera del mundo. Su sangre recuerda la erosi?n de la memoria. Pero no es el viento el que mueve los alerces; es la Piedra mirando hacia los ojos de Nadie, recorriendo cent?metros de Nada. Retorna el remero con sus gritos y esta vez permanecen: "La piedra reseca no mana agua". * Presiento la apertura en lo invisible Presencio refractaria su unidad * Presiento la clausura Presencio la oquedad zonas JORGE DEBRAVO, EL HERMANO MAYOR ADRIANO CORRALES ARIAS H ablar del poeta costarricense Jorge Debravo (Guayabo de Turrialba, 1938-San Jos?, 1967) es harto dif?cil, no tanto porque desconozcamos su vida y obra, sino por el impacto que ambas tuvieron en la poes?a costarricense y en la pol?mica que a?n no cesa entre defensores, fetichistas y detractores. Hoy, a 29 a?os de su muerte -los mismos que hac?a ocho meses hab?a cumplido cuando un borracho arrollara su motocicleta-, la distancia es propicia para conversar sobre la poes?a y vida de este hermano mayor, que sin duda alguna se erigi? en parteaguas del quehacer po?tico costarricense. Comencemos con una breve biograf?a con apasionamiento precoz. "No han de caber en el artista prejuicios, credos, ni formas preconizadas de mirar la vida. Debe tener los ojos abiertos siempre, abiertos hasta sacarse sangre, abiertos hasta vaciarse por ellos" (Jorge Debravo) Jorge, seg?n nos los describen sus bi?grafos, compa?eros de viaje y familiares, era un muchacho taciturno. De origen campesino y proveniente de una familia de agricultores pobres, su infancia transcurri? descalzo entre las pesadas labores del campo y su procaz avidez de conocimiento. Fue muy tarde a la escuela -en Guayabo no hab?a escuela y la m?s cercana, en Santa Cruz, estaba a cuatro horas de camino- y sin embargo, con ayuda de su madre, aprendi? a escribir en hojas de pl?tano con palitos, desbrozando desde muy temprano su tenaz lucha con las palabras. Ayudaba a su padre hasta las dos de la tarde, luego de esa hora cultivaba una milpa peque?a, y con lo que gan? con esa labor se compr? un diccionario, su primer libro, que devoraba a la luz de una vela a falta de fluido el?ctrico. Complet? la primaria en la ciudad de Turrialba cuando ten?a 15 a?os. En Turrialba public? sus primeros versos en El Turrialbe?o y encontr? un trabajo en la Caja Costarricense del Seguro Social, mientras cursaba la secundaria nocturna hasta tercer a?o. Inici? sus primeras lecturas (la Biblia, Whitman, Vallejo, Miguel Hern?ndez, Neruda, Dar?o) con tal apetencia que como siempre le encontraban leyendo le apodaron "El Loco". El trabajo en la Caja del Seguro Social le permiti? ascender y trasladarse como inspector, ya con su esposa Margarita y sus dos hijos, Lucrecia y Raimundo, a San Isidro de el General, luego a Naranjo de Alajuela y m?s tarde nuevamente a Turrialba donde termin? el bachillerato en 1965. Al a?o siguiente se trasladaron a la ciudad de Heredia, donde, dos a?os m?s tarde, para viajar a clases vespertinas a la Universidad de Costa Rica en San Jos?, hab?a comprado la fat?dica motocicleta del accidente. Fue la suya una vida a la deriva, humilde, sin apoyo ni ayudas institucionales. Sabemos que la vida de un autor no determina su obra, ni mucho menos. Pero en el caso del poeta que nos ocupa, su paso entre Nosotros los hombres -t?tulo de uno de sus mejores poemarios, el ?ltimo publicado en vida- es importante para comprender su labor art?stica, no solo por la exig?idad material y carencias culturales de la misma, a la cuales se sobrepuso estoica y l?cidamente, sino porque su existencia se imbrica, armoniosa y creativamente, con la poes?a y sus principales soportes est?ticos e ideol?gicos. Porque en Debravo tenemos, ante todo, a un poeta franco y directo, es decir aut?ntico y sincero, justamente lo que fue Jorge el hombre: una persona solidaria con los oprimidos, un compa?ero insobornable, un promotor inclaudicable. Cierto, lo anterior no hace a un poeta, sino su producci?n. Precisamente lo que coloca a Jorge Debravo como un parteaguas en la l?rica nacional es una poes?a que apuesta por la comunicabilidad y la cotidianeidad con un lenguaje simplificado y directo frente a una tradici?n nobiliaria, solipsista y de trascendentalismo ling??stico basado en la met?fora y la alegor?a con un trasnochado parnaso/modernismo de formas vac?as, salvo serias excepciones: casos de Max Jim?nez y Eunice Odio -sin olvidar a Rafael Estrada, Ninfa Santos, Alfredo Sancho, Alfredo Cardona Pe?a, Arturo Montero Vega, Joaqu?n Guti?rrez, Fabi?n Dobles, Francisco Amighetti, Carlos Rafael Duverr?n, Mario Picado e Isaac Felipe Azofeifa-, poetas que en mucho despejaron la tentativa de Debravo. La poes?a debraviana irrumpe como un r?o enfurecido por la llanura l?rica nacional, portando una di?fana y refrescante visi?n de realidad con una simplificaci?n expresiva in?dita hasta ese momento. Sin renunciar completamente a la tradici?n de la transfiguraci?n metaf?rica y la simbolog?a, los libros Canciones cotidianas y Nosotros los hombres fundamentalmente, (y en eso coincido con el poeta e investigador Carlos Francisco Monge: 1984, pp.186-187) se convierten en los puntos de partida de una nueva sensibilidad que pretende procurarle contexto y testimonio hist?rico al poema. Lo anterior consigue lo que todo poeta persigue en su ?poca, aunque no lo confiese: un considerable arraigo entre los lectores y un entusiasmo inusitado por la poes?a, especialmente en un pa?s que le hab?a encomendado las tareas cr?ticas de develamiento social a la narrativa y al ensayo. A partir de Jorge Debravo la poes?a pasa a ocupar en nuestro pa?s el lugar que los poetas anteriores, aristocratizantes de un yo conflictivo y de cen?culo liberal, salvo serias excepciones, como ya subrayamos, hab?an deseado pero no hab?an conseguido. Las paredes de la ciudad se llenaron de graffitis y carteles que exhortaban directamente: lea poes?a, y los libros de Debravo y sus compa?eros de viaje -los del "C?rculo de Poetas de Turrialba" - impresos manualmente en pol?grafos, corr?an de mano en mano, ya no en ateneos de se?oritas e intelectuales burgueses, sino en sitios de labor, aulas y casas de trabajadores, estudiantes y "gentes sencillas". La poes?a tica adquir?a carta de ciudadan?a con un inconfundible acento human?stico y popular, sacudiendo a su vez un entorno aletargado y deplorando un pasado de p?lida impasividad. Una necesaria digresi?n: el trascendentalismo Al hablar de sus "compa?eros de viaje" es necesaria una digresi?n aclaratoria: luego de la muerte del poeta, y ya instalados en la capital y en sus principales instituciones, los miembros del C?rculo de Turrialba (fundado en 1960 adem?s de Debravo por Laureano Alb?n y Marco Aguilar; el tercero permanece en Turrialba), ampliado y convertido para entonces en el C?rculo de Poetas Costarricenses, apadrina a uno de ellos, el m?s conspicuo, Laureano Alb?n, en sus audaces aventuras por la b?squeda de reconocimiento y poder simb?lico, quien redacta un manifiesto que luego firmar?n su entonces esposa, la poeta Julieta Dobles, y los j?venes poetas Carlos Francisco Monge y Ronald Bonilla, y que ser? conocido como Manifiesto Trascendentalista. Dicho documento, de escasa repercusi?n, fanfarronea y aboga por una poes?a metaf?rica y de lenguaje figurado, donde la intuici?n ser?a el centro de la creaci?n po?tica en contraste abierto con el legado debraviano, dejando de lado la investigaci?n y la experimentaci?n, elementos sine qua non de toda actividad art?stica. Jorge Debravo dec?a: "Estoy con todo lo que signifique revoluci?n art?stica (Debravo: 1978: 24). Dice Alb?n: "prefiero jugar con los ni?os, pasear por la ribera de un r?o, sorprender a las nubes y hasta dormir bajo la lluvia, que leer muchos libros y porquer?as literarias" (Alb?n y otros: 1977). En una especie de traici?n est?tica y ?tica, con una actitud de soberbia, presumiblemente iluminada por la ?nica verdad, la suya, proclaman el abecedario de grupo y denostan la poes?a que propusiera el autor de Milagro abierto, pero cit?ndolo (parad?jicamente en su apartado V aparece la cita "La poes?a es un arma") siempre como coterr?neo, compa?ero de generaci?n y de viaje. Si algo importante sugiere esa proclama trascendentalista es la constataci?n de que la poes?a es una labor marginal para la sociedad de consumo y la cultura de masas. Lo que sucede es que, adem?s de ser un texto contradictorio, con generalidades y repeticiones incluso antag?nicas, la gestualidad un tanto prepotente de su redactor y firmantes buscar? lo contrario: ocupar los pedestales del canon y la fama. Otro logro que podemos endosarle es su calidad de autorretrato en grupo, al describir en mucho la posterior producci?n po?tica de los firmantes subrayando la "mediocridad mim?tica, comodidosa y superficial de la poes?a de nuestro pa?s". Es imprescindible, por lo dem?s, ubicar el trasfondo hist?rico de esa sui generis toma de posici?n en una Centroam?rica convulsionada por la violencia pol?tica y la lucha social con una poes?a militante que produjo numerosos m?rtires: Otto Ren? Castillo, Roberto Obreg?n Morales, Roque Dalton, Ricardo Morales Avil?s, Leonel Rugama, entre otros. Es de suyo interesante recalcar la invisibilizaci?n que se hace de la poes?a nicarag?ense, nuestra vecina ineludible, con toda su tradicional riqueza expresiva, especialmente a partir del Movimiento de Vanguardia comandado por Jos? Coronel Urtecho en Granada, y su posterior franja de producci?n "exteriorista" y coloquial. No cabe duda que Alb?n y acompa?antes pretend?an alejarse de esa fuerte influencia para fundar su propia nombrad?a con una poes?a cargada de abstracciones y vaguedades parnasiano/simbolistas, con ciertas excepciones: los poemarios Solam?rica, Chile de pie en la sangre, Sonetos cotidianos y Sonetos laborales, de Laureano Alb?n, pero un tanto impostados, lejos de la m?dula debraviana. Pero lo m?s incongruente del manifiesto de marras es que en 1965, en la revista Pol?mica, Laureano Alb?n y Julieta Dobles hab?an firmado el Manifiesto 65 redactado por el propio Jorge Debravo, conjuntamente con Alb?n, Marco Aguilar y Edith Fern?ndez (Boccanera, 2004: 116). All? se precisa, con anticipaci?n y en grupo, la posici?n del autor que nos ocupa, insinuando que "un d?a la pol?tica ser? una canci?n". Semejante contradicci?n conceptual y ?tica pocas veces se ha visto en nuestro pa?s. Por esas y otras razones, est?ticas fundamentalmente, hasta hoy no he podido descifrar cabalmente qu? es la poes?a "trascendentalista" -t?rmino m?s cercano a la poes?a de esa otra cumbre costarricense, Eunice Odio, en el sentido de trascenderse m?s all? del ser y de su propia imagen; por supuesto, nada que ver con la filosof?a de Emerson, Thoreau y dem?s feligreses norteamericanos- aunque s? su peligrosa articulaci?n con los ?mbitos del poder y el rejuego institucional y editorial, oficializando una forma de hacer poes?a acartonada y desvinculada del entorno sociohist?rico, pero con la complicidad de los c?rculos literarios m?s conservadores, de la academia y los premios oficializados (l?ase fosilizados), y siempre pronunciando el apellido Debravo, en vano. Justamente esa actitud ha llevado al C?rculo de Poetas Costarricenses al "autoexilio" en el amplio y plural campo literario costarricense, hecho parangonado en la historia reciente solamente con el grupo Alambique que, luego de aparecer, a mediados de los a?os 90, con una propuesta editorial cooperativa e incluyente, los escasos miembros que sobrevivieron a sus purgas fueron paulatinamente desdici?ndose y autoaisl?ndose con una arrogancia y altisonancia discursiva ciertamente pat?ticas y con una producci?n literaria profundamente endog?mica. Aportes, valores, contradicciones e influencia de la obra debraviana El arraigo popular alcanzado por la poes?a debraviana propici? la paradoja: por una parte se populariz? una forma de hacer poes?a m?s clara y directa que optaba claramente por los "desheredados de la tierra" proponiendo un nuevo paradigma donde la utop?a estaba a flor de la palabra, con un creciente n?mero de lectores; y por otra parte, y por eso mismo, la creciente vulgarizaci?n de esa forma de poetizar la realidad hasta caer en el panfleto y la versificaci?n pedestre y sectaria. Pero adem?s, y debido a la tr?gica muerte del poeta, sobreviene la temprana canonizaci?n oficial que vac?a de los principales contenidos a la poes?a debraviana reform?ndola como lectura obligatoria de nuestra empobrecida ense?anza, relegando as? su rebeld?a y su energ?a creadoras para dar paso a la an?cdota ramplona y a la rese?a escolar. Muerto el revolucionario se confisca su fuego. Pienso que lo ?ltimo es lo que ha favorecido una confusi?n entre defensores y detractores. Los primeros lo reivindican como el poeta del pueblo con justo entusiasmo y no menos raz?n, pero fetichizando en mucho su obra y despoj?ndolo, a contrapelo de la misma propuesta est?tico ideol?gica del creador y de su visi?n dial?ctica del arte y la historia, de sus m?s profundos postulados. Los segundos le cobran la oficializaci?n y proposici?n de su poes?a como paradigma po?tico "nacional", recelosos, en el fondo, de su popularidad y de su abundante lectura en todos los estratos sociales. Ello habla de la autenticidad de una poes?a y de un autor que a?n hoy provocan serias y bizantinas discusiones, y hasta poemas que ambiguamente reclaman, deploran y justifican la muerte del humilde pero grande vate de Guayabo. Muchos de los poetas menores de 40 a?os, es decir: nacidos luego de la muerte de Debravo, han querido perpetrar el parricidio simb?lico del poeta, a la manera de Jos? Coronel Urtecho con su "paisano inevitable", Rub?n Dar?o, en Nicaragua. Es el caso de Mauricio Molina y Luis Chaves. El primero se autocr?tica de tal tentativa radical al publicar el ya c?lebre Manifiesto fragmentario en el n?mero 10 de la revista Kasandra en 1997, que "dec?a que pas?bamos criticando a Debravo para luego escondernos bajo la noche a devorar sus libros". Textualmente en la revista citada: Todos reneg?bamos de Debravo en las tardes, y lo devor?bamos con placer en las noches, como a un(a) amante, pero definitivamente odi?bamos a Alb?n. (Boccanera, 2004: 108). El segundo intenta ajustar cuentas y desacralizarlo en su pol?mico poema Arte po?tica II: "_Muri? el Gran Poeta de la Patria / en fatal accidente de tr?nsito. / _ ?Y qu? le pas? a la moto?". (Chaves, 2000: 42). Y lleva raz?n Molina: a Debravo no se le puede ver como el "padre" po?tico de las nuevas generaciones porque su actitud y su postura no pretendieron fundar movimientos ni dejar disc?pulos (lo contrario de sus "compa?eros de viaje" como ya vimos, aunque Carlos Francisco Monge y Julieta Dobles se hayan desmarcado, veinticinco a?os m?s tarde, de los postulados "trascendentalistas"), mucho menos convertirse en el pap? de las siguientes generaciones. Al contrario, su poes?a, canto de esperanza y solidaridad que no descuida los c?digos formales que implican un trabajo riguroso con el lenguaje y sus claves, es una convocatoria humanista donde el poeta es el hermano de los dem?s. Por eso debemos percibirlo y recibirlo como tal: el hermano, el mayor hasta ahora si pensamos en su obra como urgente b?squeda de nuevos caminos para comunicar las "buenas nuevas" con una prosodia y una dicci?n muy personales. Esos mismos caminos que desbroza la nueva poes?a costarricense en sus disoluciones del hablante en verso y prosa, atm?sferas on?ricas y alucinadas, im?genes cerradas y abiertas, parodias, musicalidades, testimonios y pastiches, para expresarse por otras v?as tratando de comunicarse con su tiempo y sus cong?neres. La poes?a de Debravo, cuyo eje, como ya vimos, es la solidaridad humana y lo fraterno como propuesta; cabe decir -a riesgo de parecer rid?culos, como apostillaba el Che Guevara- el amor por los semejantes y la confianza en las "multitudes" de quien se asume como parte de una comunidad con la que dialoga francamente, es su n?cleo, su raz?n de ser; adem?s de la insistencia acerca del papel del poeta como instrumento de liberaci?n, insistencia que lo convierte, a veces, en mesi?nico y redentor; y de su n?tida raigambre social y popular, por lo tanto pol?tica y con posiciones patri?ticas, antiimperialistas, sin concebirse como un poeta militantemente partidario; perfila tem?ticas y tendencias como la ecologista, la er?tica y la cristiana liberadora. Esas tres tendencias o tem?ticas, como grandes bandas del inter?s po?tico del turrialbe?o, se entrelazan por el ancho r?o debraviano, forjando y disponiendo una poes?a vital, placentera y cuestionadora a la vez. En su obra se percibe un cosmos vegetal, agrario, que parte de la madre tierra y lo que produce, lo que germina, como el ma?z y los bosques (Salmo de los tres reinos, Salmo a la tierra animal de tu vientre, Salmo de las maderas). En el segundo y tercer poemas se?alados hay una fusi?n de lo ecol?gico y lo er?tico con una armon?a particularmente espl?ndida. Veamos un fragmento del tercero: "Hay maderas recias y macizas como tus piernas y tus espaldas. Hay maderas h?medas y rojas como la piel de tus labios y de tu lengua / Porque la piel de tus labios y de tu lengua es como una madera roja y empapada de savia". (Todos los fragmentos de poemas de Debravo que se citen est?n tomados de la Antolog?a mayor, 1986). En la zona er?tica es expl?cito el tratamiento del t?pico sexual. En el poema "Desvestido" del libro Devocionario del amor sexual, leemos: "Luego -por diversi?n, sin decir nada- / la noche se llev? tu blusa larga / y te arranc? la falda ensimismada / como una cosa t?mida y amarga (.) porque s? y porque no, a medio reproche, / desnudaste tambi?n, entre la noche, / la noche peque?ita de tu sexo". Lo er?tico se integra con los dem?s temas, o subyace en casi toda su producci?n, relacion?ndolo tambi?n con lo religioso En el poema "La yerba" hay una conjunci?n de lo ecol?gico con el cristianismo, liberador y desacralizado, y con el hecho po?tico como par?bola: "Dicen que Jes?s predicaba a las gentes / sentadas sobre la yerba. Por eso sus palabras se parecen / a los cogollos de los cedros en la ?poca de las lluvias". Igual lo hace en el pr?logo de Consejos para Cristo al comenzar el a?o: "Nunca he sabido lo que es la poes?a. Se me parece a Dios. La intuyo cuando se acerca. Despu?s no s? si se fue. O si la dej? amarrada en la palabra". La ra?z (por lo tanto la radicalidad) cristiana de la poes?a de Debravo es evidente y ya muchas/os cr?ticas/os y estudiosas/sos lo han se?alado. Incluso alguno de ellos -el chileno Alberto Baeza Flores: 1978: 282- plantea que probablemente provenga del rec?ndito sentimiento cristiano del campesino costarricense. Podr?amos aventurarnos incluso a sugerir la presencia, mas bien la resonancia, de algunas huellas de la tradici?n del Milenarismo y del Evangelio permanent" (The everlasting gospel) de los disidentes del protestantismo ingl?s de los siglos XVII y XVIII, y su influencia en un poeta presumiblemente desconocido para Debravo como William Blake, con su dosis de inconformismo antiestatal, anticlerical, plebeyo, promiscuo, escandaloso y siempre descontento, que humanizaba al Dios/Cristo, o que divinizaba al hombre, y, primordialmente, de la doctrina de los contrarios en su dimensi?n social, antecedentes del revolucionarismo libertario y del anarquismo comunista (Blake: 2001: 140-176). Pero lo que llama la atenci?n es su imbricaci?n con lo sexual y lo vegetal, lo germinal, creando un cosmos er?tico y pante?sta que se aviene muy bien con la naturaleza creadora y con el proceso del lenguaje po?tico, anclado en una visi?n religiosa de la sociedad, donde Cristo adquiere una faz de redentor y de libertador de los humildes y explotados, present?ndose como un amigo del poeta. Es un Cristo definitivamente a la izquierda de la ortodoxia, el Cristo de la Iglesia Joven, un Cristo militante, humano. Esa opci?n por los pobres es anterior a lo que luego conoceremos como Teolog?a de la liberaci?n y corre pareja, presuntamente sin conocerlas, a elaboraciones po?ticas dentro de esa perspectiva creyente liberadora como la de Ernesto Cardenal, el conocido poeta nicarag?ense, y a expresiones m?sico/po?ticas posteriores como la Misa Campesina del tambi?n nicarag?ense Carlos Mej?a Godoy. Jorge Debravo es un volc?n en ebullici?n en la breve cordillera de la poes?a costarricense. Volc?n inflamado de violenta ternura que pugnaba por expresarse a toda costa, a pesar de las carencias de su entorno cultural. Su voz se despoj? de la an?cdota f?cil para -igual que C?sar Vallejo y Miguel Hern?ndez, sus influencias m?s notorias- transitar a la an?cdota humana y arribar al esencialismo de las cosas y lo seres con un lenguaje po?tico claro y eficaz, vigoroso en su tono vital. Y a pesar de cierta candorosidad, o ingenuidad po?tica (candorosidad que es siempre honesta porque es consecuencia de una emoci?n profunda), palpable a veces en una sencillez de sonsonete rural y provinciano, no sucumbi? al costumbrismo, o folclorismo, de antecesores como Aquileo Echeverr?a o Arturo Ag?ero. Mucho menos aplic? la chota a sus cong?neres campesinos a quienes reuni? con los dem?s trabajadores en un grupo de sencillos "hombres". Y eso lo logr? debido a las dotes de verdadero poeta. Posiblemente con Max Jim?nez y Eunice Odio -ambos desparecidos tambi?n de forma tr?gica y fuera del pa?s, como signos de una sociedad que ha rechazado siempre la autenticidad art?stica porque no tolera la verdad de frente- sea el autor con mayor "gracia" po?tica de nuestros creadores. Jorge naci? pose?do por el demonio de la poes?a y el ?ngel de la denuncia. Era un poeta org?nico que no necesit? de impostaciones, retru?canos o vaga ret?rica, como muchos de sus ep?gonos, para entregarnos una poes?a fresca, sensual, cr?tica, ecum?nica, de profunda ra?z ?tica y germinal. Es muy dif?cil, como se?ala el poeta, periodista y estudioso argentino Jorge Boccanera (2004: 148), verificar la influencia de la poes?a debraviana en los poetas de las ?ltimas tres d?cadas. Sin embargo, su voz es rastreable en algunos textos del mismo Laureano Alb?n, de Carlos Francisco Monge, Julieta Dobles, Ana Istar?, Alfonso Chase, Janina Fern?ndez, Mayra Jim?nez, Carlos Bonilla, Norberto Salinas, Rodolfo Dada, Macarena Barahona, Erick Gil Salas, Miguel Fajardo, Edmundo Retana y Helio Gallardo, entre otros. Lo cierto es que la influencia de Jorge Debravo es amplia y definitiva, tanto en t?rminos de su asimilaci?n est?tica y ?tica por parte de las nuevas generaciones, como en su negaci?n y hasta en el intento de "asesinarla", como he tratado de mostrarlo. A pesar del tiempo transcurrido desde su tr?gica desaparici?n, la presencia del hermano mayor, para tirios y troyanos, es incuestionable. Colof?n Si la muerte no hubiese pisado su huerto tan temprano, a lo mejor podr?amos parafrasear al poeta cuando, a prop?sito de Max Jim?nez, expresara lo siguiente: "Si alguna vez Costa Rica estuvo a punto de producir un genio, fue cuando (Jorge, en vez de Max, o ambos al un?sono) luchaba contra las cosas y los seres, contra la palabra y contra s? mismo (Debravo: 1986, pp. 26, 27). He all? dos naturalezas consumi?ndose en el fuego creador en un pa?s que, de manera diversa pero parad?jicamente semejante, trat? de despojarlos de su vibrante y avasallador discurso. Al primero (Max) se le cobr? su ascendencia burguesa y cosmopolita, tanto que su propia clase lo denost? como "loco" (para variar) y atrabiliario; y al segundo (Jorge) se le acos? en vida por su procedencia campesino/proletaria y por su ideario human?stico y social, para cooptarlo despu?s de su muerte colg?ndole el sambenito de "poeta nacional". Hasta en el sepelio no tuvo sosiego. Bajo un pertinaz aguacero, un cura reaccionario cerr? las puertas del templo donde familiares y amigos pretend?an oficiarle misa, neg?ndole su entrada por considerarlo ateo y comunista"y "porque le ha hecho mucho da?o a nuestra santa madre iglesia". ("Dios no quiere rodillas humilladas en los templos." hab?a escrito el poeta). Al final solamente cuatro de sus amigos, el escultor N?stor Zeled?n Guzm?n y los escritores Jos? Le?n S?nchez, Laureano Alb?n y Alfonso Chase, lograron depositar el f?retro en un pozo lleno de agua que fue rellenado con barro y l?grimas por sus improvisados enterradores (Zeled?n Guzm?n: 1988). Por cierto, llama poderosamente la atenci?n el hecho de que siendo tres de ellos escritores, ninguno se haya tomado el tiempo para narrarnos esa oscura y torrencial despedida; solamente el artista N?stor Zeled?n, quien guardaba un poema in?dito del poeta, el cual diera a conocer en el homenaje del 23 de febrero de 1993 en conmemoraci?n de su natalicio (probablemente el ?ltimo que Debravo escribiera: En la mano del poeta), se atrevi? a contarnos esa violenta tarde de intolerancia religiosa, viento, espanto y lluvia. ?Voluntad invisibilizadora por parte de sus colegas? Hoy, celosa, sospechosa y contradictoriamente, se le reprocha al poeta de Guayabo de Turrialba (aunque a Max Jim?nez tambi?n se le rebaja aduciendo su "todolog?a"; recordemos que era un artista m?ltiple e integral: pintor, escultor, grabador, dibujante, poeta, narrador, ensayista) el entusiasmo que despierta, as? como su permanencia distintiva, lo que lo convierte en el poeta m?s vendido y le?do de esta ?nsula globalitaria. Afortunadamente, m?s all? de la pol?mica y la mezquindad, su poes?a y su legado en t?rminos de actitud creadora, ?tica combativa y modo de vida aut?nticos, lo sobreviven. El hermano mayor prevalece. Bibliograf?a consultada Alb?n, Laureano, Bonilla, Ronald, Dobles Julieta, Monge, Carlos Francisco. Manifiesto Trascendentalista y poes?a de sus autores. San Jos?, Editorial Costa Rica, 1977. Baeza Flores, Alberto. 1978. Evoluci?n de la poes?a costarricense, 1574-1977. Editorial Costa Rica, San Jos?. Blake, William (Estudio preliminar, selecci?n y notas de Jos? Luis Palomares). 2001. El matrimonio del cielo y del infierno. (Edici?n facs?mil y biling?e). Hiperi?n, Madrid. Boccanera, Jorge. 2004. Voces tatuadas. Cr?nica de la poes?a costarricense 1970 2004. Ediciones Perro azul, San Jos?. Chaves, Luis. 2000. Historias Polaroid. Ediciones Perro Azul, San Jos?. Debravo, Jorge (Pr?logo de Joaqu?n Guti?rrez). 1986. Antolog?a Mayor. Editorial Costa Rica, San Jos?. Duverr?n, Carlos Rafael (Selecci?n y pr?logo): 1973. Poes?a contempor?nea de Costa Rica. Editorial Costa Rica, San Jos?. Monge, Carlos Francisco: 1984. La imagen separada. Instituto del Libro, Ministerio de Cultura, Juventud y Deportes, San Jos?. 1992. Antolog?a cr?tica de la poes?a de Costa Rica. Editorial de la Universidad de Costa Rica, San Jos?. Zeled?n Guzm?n, N?stor. 1998. "Los cielos se desataron", en supl. cultural ?ncora, La Naci?n, a?o XVI, n?m. 2, 10 de diciembre de 1988, San Jos?. Espacio Latino, http://letras-uruguay.espaciolatino.com/aaa/corrales_adriano/jorge_debravo.htm DESVESTIDO La noche, deseosa, apenumbrada, te quit? sin pensar las zapatillas... y -por sentirse blanca y alumbrada- desnud? blancamente tus rodillas. Luego -por diversi?n, sin decir nada- la noche se llev? tu blusa larga y te arranc? la falda ensimismada como una cosa t?mida y amarga. Despu?s te colocaste travesura: desnudaste tus pechos por ternura y -hablando de un amor vago, inconexo- porque s? y porque no, a medio reproche, desnudaste tambi?n, entre la noche la noche peque?ita de tu sexo. PARTO Mujer, toda mi sangre est? presente contigo en esa lucha que sostienes. Contigo est? mi amor incandescente y en tu llanto y en tu duelo me contienes. Nunca en la vida estuve tan de prisa, tan lleno de rel?mpagos y ruegos, como ahora que ha muerto tu sonrisa y est?n con tu dolor todos tus llantos y fuegos. Nunca estuvo mi amor tan a tu lado, nunca como esta noche de tortura, cuando sufre mi amor crucificado en el mismo tabl?n de tu amargura! POEMA Desde que el primer hijo -en noche de tortura- se desprendi? de ti como un brazo viviente, la carne se te ha hecho una fruta madura y el amor como un pan se te ve y se te siente. Tus mejillas se han vuelto suaves como pa?ales, la voz se te ha llenado de ternuras y almohadas, palpitan en tus ojos dos tiernos animales y son como dos sombras tus manos sosegadas... HIJOS Por la hija que r?e estoy doliente, por el hijo que llora estoy en pena, porque los dos me han puesto la colmena del alma toda abierta y toda ardiente. Porque los dos han hecho que ese diente con que la vida muerde y envenena, me clave m?s veneno entre la vena y me vuelva el espanto incandescente. Porque los dos son chorros de esperanza. Porque los dos me pedir?n ma?ana un mendrugo de paz que no se alcanza. Porque tendr? que darles la campana de la muerte, del odio y la venganza. y nutrirles la voz con sangre humana. RESURRECCI?N Esta noche sedienta yo me he preguntado qui?n eres y qui?n eres. Porqu? es triste tu carne como un le?o apagado y porqu? tienes llena la boca de alfileres. Y despacio, esta noche yo te he separado como un ?rbol de amor, de las dem?s mujeres, y haciendo de mi sangre un agua he bautizado con ella tus angustias y placeres. Y le he dicho a la muerte que no puede matarme! Y le he dicho a la vida que no puede vencerme! Y le he dicho a la tierra que si logra enterrarme, a donde ella me entierre t? ir?s a recogerme! Y le he dicho a la nada que si logra apagarme, t?, con tus grandes besos, volver?s a encenderme! DIGO El hombre no ha nacido para tener las manos amarradas al poste de los rezos. Dios no quiere rodillas humilladas en los templos, sino piernas de fuego galopando, manos acariciando las entra?as del hierro, mentes pariendo brasas, labios haciendo besos. Digo que yo trabajo, vivo, pienso, y que esto que yo hago es un buen rezo, que a Dios le gusta mucho y respondo por ello. Y digo que el amor es el mejor sacramento, que os amo, que amo y que no tengo sitio en el infierno. HOMBRE Soy hombre , he nacido, tengo piel y esperanza. Yo exijo, por lo tanto, que me dejen usarlas. No soy dios: soy un hombre (como decir un alga). Pero exijo calor en mis ra?ces, almuerzo en mis entra?as. No pido eternidades llenas de estrellas blancas. Pido ternura, cena, silencio, pan, casa... Soy hombre, es decir, animal con palabras. Y exijo, por lo tanto, que me dejen usarlas. ESTA CANCI?N AMARGA Sufro tanto que a veces ni siquiera s? si sufro por m? o por el obrero. El sufrimiento nace, simplemente. Es como un ?rbol ciego. No lo busco, lo llamo ni lo aguardo. Nace cuando lo quiere. Es como un chorro de alcohol, como una almohada de alfileres. Es amargo y sangriento a medianoche y a veces -sin permiso- en las aceras. Me anuda la camisa hasta asfixiarme. Me riega ?cidos malos en las venas. Sin embargo, hermanos, cuando falta es como si mi carne estuviera vac?a. Como si no corriera el jugo de mi sangre. Como si a chorros, roja, se me huyera la vida. Encuentro de poetas hasta el 15 de agosto Un lenguaje com?n que se transmita con profundidad. Que transporte el eje de las nacionalidades y que alimente la poes?a, parece ser el mensaje que llevan los poetas, escritores, cantantes, concertistas y pintores que participan en V Encuentro Internacional de Poetas. Este evento re?ne a 41 artistas de Uruguay, Chile, Espa?a, M?xico, Per?, Canad?, Argentina, Puerto Rico, Honduras, Islas Canarias, Ecuador, Brasil, Colombia, Australia y El Salvador; y que es organizado por las universidades Eloy Alfaro de Manta y San Gregorio de Portoviejo. Los poetas llegaron a Manta el martes 7 de agosto y estar?n recorriendo la provincia hasta el mi?rcoles 15, fecha en la cu?l retornar?n a sus respectivos pa?ses. Aunque sus puntos de vista son diferentes, ellos, hablan un solo lenguaje. Tienen claro que la cultura es el medio de comunicaci?n que une naciones y que ayuda al crecimiento de su poblaci?n. "Es una lluvia de palabras con sonido que tienen sus ra?ces en cada ser humano. Todos alguna vez nos hemos hecho eco de una buena poes?a que nos haya transportado en tiempo y espacio", dice Horacio Hidrovo, qui?n se muestra complacido por la aceptaci?n que ha tenido el encuentro po?tico que ha logrado reunir un n?mero considerable de poetas y escritores. El arte Horacio Hidrovo se?ala que el encuentro ha ido creciendo. "Cada a?o son m?s los poetas y artistas que se suman al proyecto que tiene la finalidad de intercambiar y reforzar la cultura no s?lo latinoamericana si no de todo el mundo", sostiene. Hoy llegan los poetas a Bah?a de Car?quez El Banco Central del Ecuador en conjunto con la Universidad Laica Eloy Alfaro de Manab? - Extensi?n Bah?a de Car?quez tienen el honor de presentar el "V Festival de Poetas y I de Artes Visuales" en el auditorio del Museo Bah?a de Car?quez hoy jueves 9 de agosto a las 11h00. Esto es parte del festival que todos los a?os se realiza en la ciudad de Manta gracias al Departamento de Desarrollo Cultural de la ULEAM, dirigido por el poeta Horacio Hidrovo Pe?aherrera. A este acto en particular se ha invitado a los estudiantes de los colegios de la localidad y adem?s se hace extensiva la misma a la ciudadan?a que desee disfrutar de tan importante evento. El Diario, Ecuador, 9 de agosto de 2007 Eduardo Mitre presentar? Vitrales de la memoria El Espacio Sim?n I. Pati?o a trav?s del Cedoal, presentar? el libro Vitrales de la memoria, nuevo poemario de Eduardo Mitre, publicado este a?o por la editorial Pre-Textos de Valencia (Espa?a), la misma que public? su anterior El paraguas de Manhattan (2004), es un puente po?tico tendido entre dos espacios y tiempos: el presente de Nueva York y el pret?rito de la infancia y la adolescencia del poeta transcurridas en Oruro -su ciudad natal- y en Cochabamba. A trav?s de la memoria afectiva, cada poema va plasmando-restaurando los paisajes: el altiplano orure?o, el balneario "chaucheras" y cines de Cochabamba; espacios que son pasajes por los que vuelven presencias familiares de entonces (el t?o, el abuelo, el condisc?pulo de la escuela, los compa?eros de juego) as? como otras (el payaso de circo, Marilyn Monroe, Natalie Word, Enrique Omar S?vori) cuyo paso pervive en el recuerdo de innumerables personas. Varios poemas son eleg?as, pero siempre m?s rememoraci?n que lamento, en una escritura obediente al deseo de prolongar la permanencia de los ausentes. De este modo, en estos vitrales verbales, como en el verso de la c?lebre balada de Franz Tamayo, "la ausencia hace presencia". Mitre naci? en Oruro, Bolivia, en 1943. Estudi? Derecho en la Universidad Mayor de San Sim?n de Cochabamba y, posteriormente, realiz? estudios de literatura francesa en Francia y literatura latinoamericana en Estados Unidos donde se doctor? por la Universidad de Pittsburgh con una tesis sobre la poes?a de Vicente Huidobro. Entre sus libros de poes?a figuran: Morada (1975), Ferviente humo (1976), Mirabilia (1979), Desde tu cuerpo (1984), La luz del regreso (1990), L?neas de oto?o (1993), El peregrino y la ausencia: Antolog?a po?tica (1988), Camino de cualquier parte publicado por Visor de Madrid en 1998 y El paraguas de Manhattan (2004). La ?poca, Bolivia, 18 de agosto de 2007 PUBLICAN EN CUBA EL M?S RECIENTE LIBRO DE JORGE ENRIQUE ADOUM RANDOL PERESALAS Por mucho tiempo, durante la universidad, dese? encontrar alg?n tipo de texto con el cual aprender a distinguir entre buena y mala poes?a. Y es que desde entonces comparto el criterio de que leyendo malos libros, tambi?n se aprende a apreciar los buenos. Lamentablemente, no hall? ninguno. Era un tanto ingenua mi pretensi?n, lo reconozco -hay que conformarse, irremediablemente, con la recolecci?n de planteamientos aislados (adem?s de leer buena literatura, desde luego), para as? armarse una suerte de detector personal-, mas la b?squeda no fue del todo infructuosa. Me revel? una gran verdad: pocos son los autores que se dedican a recopilar ejemplos de mal arte, con buenas intenciones. La mayor?a prefiere invertir esfuerzos directamente en la creaci?n, y no desandar caminos desafortunados, aunque ello implique un servicio invaluable para aquellos que empiezan. Los hay demasiado pudorosos y un poco ego?stas. Por esa raz?n, cuando leo a un escritor famoso que intenta explicar su oficio, lejos de considerarlo petulante, lo aplaudo. Tal es el caso esta vez del ecuatoriano Jorge Enrique Adoum, y su m?s reciente t?tulo, Aproccimasi?n a la paraliteratura, publicado por la Editorial Arte y Literatura, en coordinaci?n con Ediciones Archipi?lago, como parte de la colecci?n de ensayos Argos. Como su t?tulo indica, Adoum, uno de los imprescindibles en la l?rica latinoamericana, propone un acercamiento agudo no solo a la expresi?n paraliteratura, sino, sobre todo, a aquellos g?neros m?s da?ados por sus c?ndidos cultivadores. Pero es que tambi?n el tono jocoso que se permite, garantiza un aut?ntico banquete. De otra forma ser?a imposible leer el volumen, pues los numerosos, mas necesarios ejemplos escogidos por el autor para ilustrar sus tesis, lo har?an francamente insoportable. Adoum detalla con escrupulosa precisi?n los malos momentos de inspiraci?n que avalan el t?rmino, pero tambi?n lo hace con meticulosa iron?a, sin ?nimos de burla (fase ?ltima en la que caer?a un analista poco serio); lo suyo es alerta franca, humilde y sabia. Recorre as? casi todas las variantes po?ticas -eleg?aca, heroica, amatoria-; desenmascara la intrusi?n de lo paraliterario en zonas como la pol?tica, la ciencia, la prensa, la filosof?a y hasta la cr?tica; y eval?a los efectos negativos de la cultura de masas, por su ambiguo papel de crear falsas expectativas en algunos individuos, poco o nada dotados para el arte de la composici?n. Acompa?ado por el astuto pincel de su coterr?neo, Asdr?bal de la Torre, quien despliega sus ingeniosas caricaturas a la entrada de cada cap?tulo, y hace m?s disfrutable el trayecto, el autor invita a una reflexi?n de ?ndole no ya exclusivamente est?tica, sino adem?s cultural y social. Porque no se debe confundir -nos comenta el maestro- al productor de best seller con el paraliterato, aunque en ocasiones coincidan. En el pr?logo firmado por el tambi?n poeta ecuatoriano, Efra?n Jara, este expone: ?Frente a la complejidad estructural, al tenso equilibrio entre sensibilidad e inteligencia, a la densidad conceptual, a la despiadada voluntad de forma, que hacen de la literatura genuina algo desalentadoramente complicado y exigente, la paraliteratura consagra el flujo espont?neo, la sensibler?a incontrolada, la banalidad de los temas, la proliferaci?n de los t?picos, la facilidad y el desali?o formal?. O sea: se est? hablando de una intelectualidad sospechosa, anclada en la desigual din?mica social contempor?nea, y donde muchos buscan afanosamente destacar, sin que importe demasiado el modo. Para el lector cubano la cosa puede resumirse como sigue: todo aquello que suena cursi, falso o a rebuscamiento chato, es paraliteratura. Y el autor asentir?a de inmediato. En numerosas ocasiones he visto a colegas devanarse los sesos para entender la quintaesencia de un texto (cuando la tiene) por aquello de que se debe ser paciente con los que empiezan. Y es que si solo fuese un problema de los novatos, los entender?a, y hasta los apoyar?a, pero no siempre es as?. Situaciones similares deben conocer aquellos que tienen la responsabilidad de decidir en un concurso literario. Pues bien, les aseguro que este delicioso texto de Adoum les facilitar? la tarea. Son aproximaciones, es cierto, pero suficientes para crearnos un muro de contenci?n contra todo aquello que quiera pasar por arte. No un muro para creernos mejores que otros, sino para saber d?nde est?n nuestros l?mites. Juventud Rebelde, Cuba, 18 de agosto de 2007 *** NOVEDADES M?xico, Axial, 2007 Vicente Huidobro, Altazor Es esta, para algunos su obra cumbre, la que gest? duran- te diez a?os, donde Vicente Akazor Huidobro imprime los postulados transgresores propios del demiurgo capaz de insuflar un aliento poderoso a su creaci?n. Aquel que naci? en el Equinoccio, se yergue desafiante ante la Naturaleza y se lanza sobre la rosa perfumada -su para- ca?das- a trav?s de la noche vertiginosa para hablarle a los astros, mir?ndolos de frente. Penetrando el oc?ano estelar, de pie entre el nadir y el cenit el ?ngel observa la orfandad del planeta, soledad suspendida en la noche in- finita. Canta y afirma que s?lo cree en los climas de la pasi?n: el dolor es lo ?nico eterno. El hombre, mago, poeta, salta del vientre de su madre o del borde de una estrella y emprende el viaje. Periplo c?smico que reconstruye el universo en siete cantos y nos deslumbra con su nostalgia desafiante. La poes?a tiene pues hambre de absoluto, de eternidad, y el viajero Altazor no teme arrojarse en su parasubidas y desde las alturas pedirnos silencio pues la tierra ha dado a luz un ?rbol. Conde de Lautr?amont, Cantos de Maldoror Hay quienes escriben para buscar el aplauso humano por medio de las nobles cualidades del coraz?n que la imaginaci?n inventa o por las que ya tienen. ?yo utilizo mi genio para pintar las delicias de la crueldad! Delicias no pasajeras, delicias artificiales pero que empezaron con el hombre y terminar?n con ?l. ?no puede el genio aliarse con la crueldad en las secretas resoluciones de la providencia o, por el hecho de ser cruel, carece de genio? [...] As? como lo expresa el propio Isidore, este libro camina por senderos siniestros, sombr?os pasajes en los que el adolescente Maldoror reflexiona sobre la maldad que el hombre contiene por naturaleza; su capacidad de destrucci?n y exterminio del ser y del esp?ritu, que lo llevar? a cuestionar la divinidad de dios a partir de la premisa de que fuimos creados a su imagen y semejanza. A trav?s de una poes?a colmada de im?genes exquisitamente demenciales, este libro es una muestra de aquellas letras infaustas que fueron punto de partida para otros aurotres del ?ltimo cuarto del siglo xix, Baudelaire, Rimbaud y Verlaine: los malditos. Arthur Rimbaud, Una temporada en el infierno La intensidad persuasiva de su impulso creador, sus facultades en fermento constante, condujeron a Rimbaud a a participar, breve pero de manera deslumbrante, en la "Comuna de Par?s" en 1871, donde su intuici?n enardecida y car?cter an?rquico conmocion? a los parnasianos que se dec?an paladines de la modernidad. No obstante, el adolescente no cesa de engendrar sus versos desmesurados mientras recorre las callas del ajenjo y el hashish, escandalizado a la elite literaria parisina. C?sar Vallejo, Poes?a completa La obra po?tica de C?sar Vallejo aparece en los a?os 20, contempor?nea de la generaci?n del 27 en Espa?a y de la explosi?n de las llamadas vanguardias, aquellas tentativas por refrescar la expresi?n art?stica y literaria justo cuando la poes?a buscaba nuevos rumbos luego del impacto del modernismo. Junto a Vicente Huidobro, Pablo Neruda, Jorge Luis Borges, Octavio Paz, y Jos? Lezama Lima forma parte del grupo de los precursores de la poes?a latinoamericana, distingui?ndose por su estilo que encarna, como pocos, la libertad del lenguaje po?tico que fue capaz de remontarse en medio de las recetas de tantas escuelas. Represento lo que puede y debe ser la poes?a: una b?squeda ling??stica y existencial intensa entre la angustia y la esperanza, una voz in?dita y contundente. ____________________________________________ Comit? editorial luis alberto alfaro (costa rica)/ cruz ben?tez/ fabienne bradu/ sergio c?rdenas/ luis cort?s bargall?/ miguel jorge castillo/ evodio escalante/ julio c?sar f?lix/ alfredo giles-d?az/ jes?s g?mez mor?n/ armando gonz?lez torres/ ricardo hern?ndez ech?varri (eu)/ sa?l ibargoyen/ jos? kozer (eu)/ eduardo langagne/ hern?n lav?n cerda/ luc?a de luna/ floriano martins (brasil)/ jos? manuel mateo/ santiago montobbio (espa?a)/ angelina mu?iz-huberman/ jorge ortega (espa?a)/ armando oviedo/ george reyes (ecuador)/ manuel silva acevedo (chile)/ felipe v?zquez/ ?scar wong/ elsa zeferino/ editor web: ignacio simal (espa?a)/ coordinador: leopoldo cervantes-ortiz elpoemaseminal es un proyecto independiente de divulgaci?n sin afanes de lucro ni de promoci?n de una sola l?nea est?tica o cultural. no est? vinculado a ning?n grupo o instituci?n, por lo que abre sus puertas a todos los autores/as de M?xico y de cualquier parte del mundo. reconoce que los espacios para la poes?a, con todo y que ahora son muchos dentro y fuera de la red cibern?tica, siguen siendo reducidos. el criterio de selecci?n es ?nicamente la calidad po?tica, debido a lo cual se aceptan aportaciones en todos los sentidos. se citar? siempre la fuente original. invitamos a los lectores/as y amigos/as a compartir poemas, libros, presentaciones, novedades y todo lo relacionado con la poes?a, as? como nuevas direcciones. www.elpoemaseminal.lupaprotestante.es elpoemasem at yahoo.com.mx, elpoemaseminal2007 at yahoo.com.mx correodepoesia at yahoo.com.mx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ?S? un mejor besador! Comparte todo lo que sabes sobre besos en: http://mx.yahoo.com/promos/mejorbesador.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 24 19:08:58 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:08:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology In-Reply-To: <566151.610.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <566151.610.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46CF650A.5050600@nut-n-but.net> I'm still not up to posting on my terminology for ideologies and related outlooks, but I said I'd post them, so here goes. First, I need to define the four character-types in my psychology: the rigidnik, the milyoop, the freewender and the ord. The names, I hope, are self-explanatory. Think "milieu" when reading "milyoop." These are similar to Reisman's inner-directed, other-directed, and autonomous personality types, with the ord being just an ordinary person. According to my psychology, each of use constructs various "knowleplexes" or knowledge-complexes. The building blocks are "knowlecules," which rhymes with "molecules." Knowlecules are, in effect, stored data, each representing a thing. Knowleplexes are combinations of related knowlecules that represent a person's understanding of a science, or city, or anything complex. Knowlecules are sort of words or phrases, knowleplexes, books. I posit that a rigidnik's knowleplexes are generally . . . rigid. Bad ideologies when concerned with ideas. Narrow, logical for short stretches, but not over-all. Based on insufficient data, impervious to criticism. Usually humorless. Usually reactionary. Almost always authoritarian in some way. Prone to binary thingking. I call them rigidniplexes. Most of a milyoop's knowleplexes are the reverse. Full of holes, logically inconsistent, ever-changing. Stoopit. Milyooplexes. The knowleplexes of all us Freewenders (as everyone posting to New Poetry clearly is!), however, are nearly always good ideologies. Open to criticism, wide-ranging, logical, for the most part. Unyielding where they ought to be, flexible where they ought to be. More error-prone than rigidniplexes, but correctable, as rigidniplexes are pretty much not. Wendriplexes. I'm not sure what I call an ord's knowleplexes. They are like the freewender's except . . . ordinary--more limited and unoriginal. Actually, all character-types have a lot of ordinary knowleplexes, and some of each of the other kinds. But one kind usually dominates. That's it for the introductory sound-bites. It gets much more complicated. And it's based on a wacked out theory of brain-functioning. To find out more, order a copy of my Shakespeare and the Rigidniks, which has a chapter on it, and an appendix about the theory of brain-functioning (with diagrams)! $20 ppd, from me, at 1708 Hayworth Road, Port Charlotte FL 33952. Around 250 pages, laminated covers. While advertising, I must report that also soon to be available at the same price is my From Haiku To Lyriku, which is mainly a discussion of contemporary North American haiku and the many short forms of poetry that I claim have evolved (in part) from it. At worst, it's a pretty good anthology of minimalist poems from mainstream haiku to various kinds of little-studied short poetry including visual, language and mathematical. Forgive the commerce, but I just paid $1500 to have 100 copies of each of these published and my credit card debt is mounting! --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 24 20:31:53 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:31:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scientific artistic intelligence??? In-Reply-To: <000001c7e669$537e7720$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e669$537e7720$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46CF7879.4000905@nut-n-but.net> Skip Fox wrote: > Can one's artistic intelligence be scientific? I'd say yes (at risk of > "category error" in Bob's mind) as with Christian Bok in large part. And it > might be said about Marianne Moore and William Carlos Williams to a lesser > extent. Just like it could be philosophical (Stevens, William Bronk?, Gerald > Burns, who called himself a "hunter of category error") or anything else: > mathematical, musical, dramatic, historical, political, etc. > > If one is largely informed by science (or any of the others, whether or not > so "employed"), then it seems to follow. I think Bob's scientific and > (pragmatic?) philosophical mind can be seen in what I have "read" of his > work. > > Who are other "scientific poets"? (I think we were posting about this > earlier; did we have anyone other than Bok?) > > > Gah, Skip, another huge topic I could spout on for a couple of weeks, if I wasn't so dragged out. Just a few small observations for now. I doubt anyone is all artistic intelligence or all scientific intelligence. On the other hand, I also believe in the standard distinction between primarily analytical minds and primarily intuitive "creative" minds. I tend to think scientists try to make the unknown comprehensible, artists try to make the known incomprehensible--to exaggerate. One simplifies for the sake of truth, the other complicates for the sake of beauty. Not sure how many poets are really scientific. For me, writing poems about science is not necessarily being scientific. I make a big distinction, for example, between those who make mathematical poems like mine which carry out mathematical procedures, and those who write about mathematics. The first are mathematical poets, the second poets writing about mathematics. As for the previous discussion about science and poets, I vaguely recall Jorie Graham was said to be scientific, though I'd say she just uses science in her poetry. Ammons, too? Not sure why you would call Williams scientific. I can see that Moore did something like botany and the like in her poetry. It strikes me that some poets may be engineers--people who use science in their work, but don't do what I'd call science, which is exploring reality and making hypotheses about it rather than using mathematics to make chance-generated poems, like some poets--Cage--have. --Bob From jfq at myuw.net Fri Aug 24 19:44:44 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Scientific artistic intelligence??? In-Reply-To: <000001c7e669$537e7720$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: i dislike this current direction of dividing up intelligences into categories. it strikes me as too nietszche-ly neat and orderly. plus it strikes me as sort of a pompous way of saying some people are good at math, other people are good at telling stories, other people are good at science. ever notice how stupid people seem largely uncurious about things? when ever I meet a stupid person, i'm always amazed not that they're so stupid but that it seems as though their personalities and interests are perfectly adjusted to being stupid. sure there are a lot of people who hate their physical shortcomings, and fewer but still a lot who dislike certain creative shortcomings (oh how I wish i was a better composer for eg). but when was the last time you met someone who had a major ego problem about their mental shortcomings? I'm not talking about people who tend to say things like "remember how stupid I am" when talking to someone whose intelligence they respect. I'm talking about genuine stupid people, like the kind who sit on the bus talking about their pathetic sex life loudly on their cell phone, or people who read tom clancy novels. So strange that these people never seem to have the equivalent experience to what i went through when I took intro to linear algebra, which was a crisis of confidence in the power of my own brain to do complex things that other people seem perfectly capable of doing. anyway, i think it's a chicken egg thing, the truly stupid are those who have no interest in things and therefore no intelligence develops. not the other way round as is generally presumed to be the case. On Fri, 24 Aug 2007, Skip Fox wrote: > Can one's artistic intelligence be scientific? I'd say yes (at risk of > "category error" in Bob's mind) as with Christian Bok in large part. And it > might be said about Marianne Moore and William Carlos Williams to a lesser > extent. Just like it could be philosophical (Stevens, William Bronk?, Gerald > Burns, who called himself a "hunter of category error") or anything else: > mathematical, musical, dramatic, historical, political, etc. > > If one is largely informed by science (or any of the others, whether or not > so "employed"), then it seems to follow. I think Bob's scientific and > (pragmatic?) philosophical mind can be seen in what I have "read" of his > work. > > Who are other "scientific poets"? (I think we were posting about this > earlier; did we have anyone other than Bok?) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 24 22:45:38 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:45:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scientific artistic intelligence??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net> > > anyway, i think it's a chicken egg thing, the truly stupid are those > who have no interest in things and therefore no intelligence develops. > not the other way round as is generally presumed to be the case. > > So, what would you call whatever it is that causes one to have an interest in things? --Bob G. From bmarcacci at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 00:59:17 2007 From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 06:59:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology In-Reply-To: <46CF650A.5050600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: Didn't notice any info on your site, Bob, but can you tease us with a list of authors from this book? -- Bob Marcacci What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake > From: Bob Grumman > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:08:58 -0500 > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology > > From Haiku To Lyriku, which is mainly a discussion of > contemporary North American haiku and the many short forms of poetry > that I claim have evolved (in part) from it. At worst, it's a pretty > good anthology of minimalist poems from mainstream haiku to various > kinds of little-studied short poetry including visual, language and > mathematical. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 25 08:40:33 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:40:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D02341.7060309@nut-n-but.net> Sure, Bob--and you remind me that I need to put up an Internet spot for info on the book. One of the flaws of the book is lack of an index, so my list will miss some authors included. Many, it should be noted, are in for just one very short poem. Basho Buson Issa George Swede M. Kettner John Martone Cor van den Heuvel LeRoy Gorman Guy Beining John M. Bennett Geof Huth Bob Grumman Scott Helmes Teitoku Lee Gurga Jack Kerouac Shiki karl kempton Eugen Gomringer Dan Waber Paul Reps Gary Snyder Robert Spiess Lorine Neidecker Jonathan Brannen Hoshinaga Fumio Jeffrey Winke John Stevenson nick avis Alexis Rotella Michael Dudley Werner Reichhold John Sheirer Ed Conti Tad Richards (his ah(na)ku) anne mckay Ezra Pound William Carlos Williams F. J. Seligman Andrew Young Liz Fenn Robert Creeley John Elsberg Tom Wiloch James Joyce Aram Saroyan E. E. Cummings Mike Taylor Emily Romano Endwar Marton Koppany Mike Basinski Gertrude Stein Jeff Harrison Tracy S. Ruggles Clark Coolidge Charles Reznikoff Jerome Rothenberg Ian Hamilton Finlay Emmett Williams Alison Bielski Adam Gamble jwcurry Paloin Biloid K. S. Ernst R. Prost Laura Goldstein R. W. Watkins Richard Kostelanetz John Vieira David Baptiste Chirot Larry Tomayasu Ficus strangulensis Nico Vassilakis Adolph Gottlieb Betsey Franco and two elementary school kids named William and Aurelien Thanks for asking--Bob G. Bob Marcacci wrote: > Didn't notice any info on your site, Bob, but can you tease us with a list > of authors from this book? > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 25 08:48:09 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:48:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D02509.5010108@nut-n-but.net> A list of those whose work is included in my book, From Haiku To Lyriku (sent again with a more appropriate post-title): Basho Buson Issa George Swede M. Kettner John Martone Cor van den Heuvel LeRoy Gorman Guy Beining John M. Bennett Geof Huth Bob Grumman Scott Helmes Teitoku Lee Gurga Jack Kerouac Shiki karl kempton Eugen Gomringer Dan Waber Paul Reps Gary Snyder Robert Spiess Lorine Neidecker Jonathan Brannen Hoshinaga Fumio Jeffrey Winke John Stevenson nick avis Alexis Rotella Michael Dudley Werner Reichhold John Sheirer Ed Conti Tad Richards (his ah(na)ku) anne mckay Ezra Pound William Carlos Williams F. J. Seligman Andrew Young Liz Fenn Robert Creeley John Elsberg Tom Wiloch James Joyce Aram Saroyan E. E. Cummings Mike Taylor Emily Romano Endwar Marton Koppany Mike Basinski Gertrude Stein Jeff Harrison Tracy S. Ruggles Clark Coolidge Charles Reznikoff Jerome Rothenberg Ian Hamilton Finlay Emmett Williams Alison Bielski Adam Gamble jwcurry Paloin Biloid K. S. Ernst R. Prost Laura Goldstein R. W. Watkins Richard Kostelanetz John Vieira David Baptiste Chirot Larry Tomayasu Ficus strangulensis Nico Vassilakis Adolph Gottlieb Betsey Franco and two elementary school kids named William and Aurelien From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Aug 25 08:03:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:03:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology References: <566151.610.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46CF650A.5050600@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <002c01c7e70f$f0413740$56a83852@ANNY> Congratulations BOB! Listen, is there a link, can one order online? Take care, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology > I'm still not up to posting on my terminology for ideologies and related > outlooks, but I said I'd post them, so here goes. First, I need to define > the four character-types in my psychology: the rigidnik, the milyoop, the > freewender and the ord. The names, I hope, are self-explanatory. Think > "milieu" when reading "milyoop." These are similar to Reisman's > inner-directed, other-directed, and autonomous personality types, with the > ord being just an ordinary person. > According to my psychology, each of use constructs various "knowleplexes" > or knowledge-complexes. The building blocks are "knowlecules," which > rhymes with "molecules." Knowlecules are, in effect, stored data, each > representing a thing. Knowleplexes are combinations of related > knowlecules that represent a person's understanding of a science, or city, > or anything complex. Knowlecules are sort of words or phrases, > knowleplexes, books. > I posit that a rigidnik's knowleplexes are generally . . . rigid. Bad > ideologies when concerned with ideas. Narrow, logical for short > stretches, but not over-all. Based on insufficient data, impervious to > criticism. Usually humorless. Usually reactionary. Almost always > authoritarian in some way. Prone to binary thingking. I call them > rigidniplexes. > > Most of a milyoop's knowleplexes are the reverse. Full of holes, > logically inconsistent, ever-changing. Stoopit. Milyooplexes. > > The knowleplexes of all us Freewenders (as everyone posting to New Poetry > clearly is!), however, are nearly always good ideologies. Open to > criticism, wide-ranging, logical, for the most part. Unyielding where they > ought to be, flexible where they ought to be. More error-prone than > rigidniplexes, but correctable, as rigidniplexes are pretty much not. > Wendriplexes. > > I'm not sure what I call an ord's knowleplexes. They are like the > freewender's except . . . ordinary--more limited and unoriginal. > Actually, all character-types have a lot of ordinary knowleplexes, and > some of each of the other kinds. But one kind usually dominates. > > That's it for the introductory sound-bites. It gets much more > complicated. And it's based on a wacked out theory of brain-functioning. > To find out more, order a copy of my Shakespeare and the Rigidniks, which > has a chapter on it, and an appendix about the theory of brain-functioning > (with diagrams)! $20 ppd, from me, at 1708 Hayworth Road, Port Charlotte > FL 33952. Around 250 pages, laminated covers. > While advertising, I must report that also soon to be available at the > same price is my From Haiku To Lyriku, which is mainly a discussion of > contemporary North American haiku and the many short forms of poetry that > I claim have evolved (in part) from it. At worst, it's a pretty good > anthology of minimalist poems from mainstream haiku to various kinds of > little-studied short poetry including visual, language and mathematical. > > Forgive the commerce, but I just paid $1500 to have 100 copies of each of > these published and my credit card debt is mounting! > > --Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Aug 25 08:22:27 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:22:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scientific artistic intelligence??? In-Reply-To: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net> References: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <648208b60708250522w550ca716i55529d364071dcca@mail.gmail.com> On 8/24/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > anyway, i think it's a chicken egg thing, the truly stupid are those > > who have no interest in things and therefore no intelligence develops. > > not the other way round as is generally presumed to be the case. > > > > > So, what would you call whatever it is that causes one to have an > interest in things? Love of life? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From pmetres at jcu.edu Sat Aug 25 09:14:51 2007 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New on Behind the Lines: Poetry, War, & Peacemaking Message-ID: <20070825091451.ARR70880@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Folks, recent postings on http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com Lawrence Joseph's "Sand Nigger," "About This," and "Lawrence Joseph's "Sand Nigger," "About This," and "News Back Further Than That"/Poetry After "The Game Changed" Grace Paley, War Resister, Peace Activist, Rest in Peace Michelle Detorie's "birdbox" and other hypertext poems/The Undertext of War David-Baptiste Chirot on the Guantanamo Poems Another Take on the Guantanamo Poems/Dan Chiasson's Review "John Lennon's "Give Peace a Chance"/A Useable Past? "my god" by Steve Dalachinsky/The Ill-logics of War "On Political Poetry" by Farideh Hassanzadeh? Mostafavi/Adrienne Rich and Sam Hamill Step Up to the Board, Billy Collins Takes the Zero Jim Andrews on Poetry and Peacemaking/How Vispo Came to Host PRIME CAConrad's Hair and the War in Iraq Ruth Lepson's "it never goes away completely" Another Look Inside the Quagmire of Dick Cheney's Mind Gary Lawless, My Kind of Soldier Kevin Prufer's "Patriot Missile"/Becoming the Bomb (again!) Gary Sullivan's "My Problems with Flarf"/A Poetics Drew Gardner's "Chicks Dig War"/Is Flarf "Scorching Irony or Living Through the Fantasy?" Fugazi's "Turnover"/Wars Abroad, Wars at Home "Behind the Lines" review in PEACEWORK Guided by Voices' "Everywhere with Helicopter" Some Thoughts on "Operation Homecoming" Feel free to send me anything of this ilk; books to review, etc. Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 25 10:42:24 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:42:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Scientific artistic intelligence??? In-Reply-To: <648208b60708250522w550ca716i55529d364071dcca@mail.gmail.com> References: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net> <648208b60708250522w550ca716i55529d364071dcca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D03FD0.5050405@nut-n-but.net> James Cervantes wrote: > On 8/24/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> anyway, i think it's a chicken egg thing, the truly stupid are those >>> who have no interest in things and therefore no intelligence develops. >>> not the other way round as is generally presumed to be the case. >>> >>> >>> >> So, what would you call whatever it is that causes one to have an >> interest in things? >> > > Love of life? > > -- Jim I guess I have to rephrase the question: what would you call whatever it is in the brain that causes one to have an interest in things? --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 25 10:46:16 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:46:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ideology--my terminology In-Reply-To: <002c01c7e70f$f0413740$56a83852@ANNY> References: <566151.610.qm@web35503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46CF650A.5050600@nut-n-but.net> <002c01c7e70f$f0413740$56a83852@ANNY> Message-ID: <46D040B8.9020803@nut-n-but.net> Anny Ballardini wrote: > Congratulations BOB! > Listen, is there a link, can one order online? > Take care, Anny I'm afraid there's no way yet to order online, Anny--I was never able to get paypal (and it's expensive, too). Soon I hope to have a website for it, though. Thanks for the interest! Bob From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 25 11:17:40 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:17:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry Message-ID: <513C20AC-35F4-48BE-8CE3-0CBEF802F1D6@ripon.edu> The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Aug 25 11:31:04 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:31:04 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku References: <46D02509.5010108@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <020201c7e72c$f3a2d2a0$4001a8c0@CoreDuo> Bob, What's the composite price, including p&p to the UK, of both this anthology and your Shakespeare book? (I can do a cheque in US $$$, which would be easiest for you, I guess.) Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 1:48 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku >A list of those whose work is included in my book, From Haiku To Lyriku >(sent again with a more appropriate post-title): From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 25 14:37:58 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:37:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku In-Reply-To: <020201c7e72c$f3a2d2a0$4001a8c0@CoreDuo> References: <46D02509.5010108@nut-n-but.net> <020201c7e72c$f3a2d2a0$4001a8c0@CoreDuo> Message-ID: <46D07706.40707@nut-n-but.net> Robin Hamilton wrote: > Bob, > > What's the composite price, including p&p to the UK, of both this > anthology and your Shakespeare book? (I can do a cheque in US $$$, > which would be easiest for you, I guess.) > > Robin Yikes, I hate to say, Robin, but . . . I should think $50 would cover it. --Bob From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Aug 25 17:09:22 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:09:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry References: <513C20AC-35F4-48BE-8CE3-0CBEF802F1D6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002f01c7e75c$364a1260$9aa83852@ANNY> what a lucky guy, I tell you. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 26 14:08:34 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:08:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Special on My Book In-Reply-To: <46D03FD0.5050405@nut-n-but.net> References: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net><648208b60708250522w550ca71 6i55529d364071dcca@mail.gmail.com> <46D03FD0.5050405@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46D1C1A2.2050505@nut-n-but.net> Two free (randomly-chosen unless you specify which two you want other than ones priced at over $5) Runaway Spoon Chapbooks with every order of my /From Haiku To Lyriku/!! Wow, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 13:29:10 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 32 In-Reply-To: <200708261600.l7QG04HL007568@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <959944.77875.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely what is wrong with poetry Stateside - and I know y'all got something invested in it. I just returned from Kolkata, talks and interviews with "Ginsberg's boys" - and Creeley was my mentor and dear friend. As Egon Schiele said: Secession! Ya, I think I can say as much - especially if you are offering such cultural pollution!!! - and what is SLACK. AGJ new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu You can reach the person managing the list at new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: From Haiku To Lyriku (Bob Grumman) 2. Re: To poetry (Anny Ballardini) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:37:58 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <46D07706.40707 at nut-n-but.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robin Hamilton wrote: > Bob, > > What's the composite price, including p&p to the UK, of both this > anthology and your Shakespeare book? (I can do a cheque in US $$$, > which would be easiest for you, I guess.) > > Robin Yikes, I hate to say, Robin, but . . . I should think $50 would cover it. --Bob ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:09:22 +0200 From: "Anny Ballardini" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] To poetry To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <002f01c7e75c$364a1260$9aa83852 at ANNY> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" what a lucky guy, I tell you. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20070825/d9ed606e/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 32 ****************************************** -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 26 14:00:21 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:00:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <959944.77875.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <959944.77875.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3E53D3C9-F779-4F25-9E48-4FBC3DAC0450@ripon.edu> On Aug 26, 2007, at 12:29 PM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: > I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely > what is wrong with poetry Stateside =========== Nice to have that cleared up, finally. And so clearly & persuasively, too. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely what is wrong with poetry Stateside - and I know y'all got something invested in it. I just returned from Kolkata, talks and interviews with "Ginsberg's boys" - and Creeley was my mentor and dear friend. As Egon Schiele said: Secession! Ya, I think I can say as much - especially if you are offering such cultural pollution!!! - and what is SLACK. AGJ ------------------------------ From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 26 14:09:15 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:09:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 32 References: <959944.77875.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008f01c7e80c$36ebe7b0$10a93452@ANNY> and I know y'all got something invested in it. just our lives Alexander, minutiae, trifles ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander Jorgensen To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 32 I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely what is wrong with poetry Stateside - and I know y'all got something invested in it. I just returned from Kolkata, talks and interviews with "Ginsberg's boys" - and Creeley was my mentor and dear friend. As Egon Schiele said: Secession! Ya, I think I can say as much - especially if you are offering such cultural pollution!!! - and what is SLACK. AGJ new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu You can reach the person managing the list at new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: From Haiku To Lyriku (Bob Grumman) 2. Re: To poetry (Anny Ballardini) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:37:58 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <46D07706.40707 at nut-n-but.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robin Hamilton wrote: > Bob, > > What's the composite price, including p&p to the UK, of both this > anthology and your Shakespeare book? (I can do a cheque in US $$$, > which would be easiest for you, I guess.) > > Robin Yikes, I hate to say, Robin, but . . . I should think $50 would cover it. --Bob ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:09:22 +0200 From: "Anny Ballardini" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] To poetry To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <002f01c7e75c$364a1260$9aa83852 at ANNY> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" what a lucky guy, I tell you. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 26 15:34:04 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:34:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <3E53D3C9-F779-4F25-9E48-4FBC3DAC0450@ripon.edu> References: <959944.77875.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3E53D3C9-F779-4F25-9E48-4FBC3DAC0450@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <46D1D5AC.5020804@nut-n-but.net> > > > On Aug 26, 2007, at 12:29 PM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: >> *I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely >> what is wrong with poetry Stateside* > =========== > > Nice to have that cleared up, finally. And so clearly & persuasively, > too. > ======================================== > David Graham Well, I for one am glad he did, David. I was almost going to post that I liked the thing, but after considering Alexander's insights concerning it, I was saved from embarrassing myself. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Sun Aug 26 15:41:02 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:41:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <46D1D5AC.5020804@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:34 PM To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside On Aug 26, 2007, at 12:29 PM, Alexander Jorgensen wrote: I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely what is wrong with poetry Stateside =========== Nice to have that cleared up, finally. And so clearly & persuasively, too. ======================================== David Graham Well, I for one am glad he did, David. I was almost going to post that I liked the thing, but after considering Alexander's insights concerning it, I was saved from embarrassing myself. --Bob G. I tend to want to be the contrarian's contrarian, but it this case . . . . But unlike Alexander (or maybe Bob in his quiet way?), I'd not castigate the writing, the publishing, or the posting of this. In fact, if someone can explain to me the difference between the types and accumulation of tropes in an Ashbery poem and this, I'd be interesting in hearing it. I'm not making a subtle point. I love Ashbery and I don't care for this. What I would like to know is why? Why the intuitive aptness of metaphor in the hands of one poet and not the other in this case? Can we extrapolate from that? What are the features of aptness (within or across poems)? Etc. I often buy books by poets I don't necessarily like just to try to understand why I don't. That's why I'm glad to have read it (though I probably wouldn't have were it not for the controversy). To be only a bit more nuanced, I think the piece has a number of qualities that are often praised in some educated poetry circles (I'm not saying here). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Sun Aug 26 15:49:42 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:49:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry In-Reply-To: <513C20AC-35F4-48BE-8CE3-0CBEF802F1D6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c7e81a$44c4cb50$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> And what if it's a persona poem? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: NewPoetry & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope_productions at hotmail.com Sun Aug 26 16:12:45 2007 From: elemenope_productions at hotmail.com (R Dillon) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:12:45 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Believe It Or Not Message-ID: There is the ideology of LIBERTY vs. everybody else of whatever stripe and whatever plan (from Rousseau to Bin Laden to Lex Luthor to HRC) to run the game. R.D. _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more?.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 26 18:47:43 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:47:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> I think maybe if Alexander had titled his post, "One of the main things wrong with the Stateside poetry scene," I wouldn't have posted. But I don't see how one can fault American Poetry because some poets, or even too many poets, write stuff that is--well, not terrifically good. The problem is not this poem but the fact that a university press published it, and other poems (one assumes) at its level, and would not consider publishing anything that takes some kind of aesthetic chances, along with just about all the other university presses in the country. The poem itself isn't really too bad, although I could point out all kinds of elements in it that I'd consider flaws: cliches (like "ransacked" in this context), sentimentality, not all that arrestingly off language, a premise that is too clear--and not really supported (i.e., poetry is good, but why? or how does it make life worth living?) Odd, I just realized that I don't know from the poem whether the poet has been saved as a reader or writer of poetry. Or both. In this case, I feel that the poem would be better if more specific. Indicate that writing poetry makes life worthwhile, then one can specify what happens when one writes that gives one as sense of meaningfulness. There is some fun with language here, too. And the warhorse of a theme is one I'm a sucker for. The poem has colorful imagery. Blah blah blah. My intuition is that the poet is young and will get a lot better. (Ha, I just changed "warhouse" above to "warhorse," because my spell checker tolded me to. As I typed "warhouse," thinking I was typing, "warhorse," I was thinking how I was using a cliche after criticizing another's use of them. My subconscious tolded me to write something more interesting, which I do think "warhouse" is. But this is a serious post, so I'll go with "warhorse." Back to Alexander, he pushed another buzzer of mine by so emphatically castigating the poem and all of stateside poetry without any support--David's problem, too, I gather. I do feel that at a discussion group like this it's okay if someone wants to simply say yes or not to a poem someone posts, or, "nice poem," or "I didn't think much of that one." I don't think one should support every opinion one utters--unless making a large point, like Alexander was. I also found the reference to Creeley amusing. Some find post-Creeley poetry as passe as Alexander finds the poem we're talking about. Okay, that's my two cents--times ten. --Bob From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Aug 26 19:36:15 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:36:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> References: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <648208b60708261636i7ee200dcs79ce7bc08f71eefe@mail.gmail.com> On 8/26/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > (Ha, I just changed "warhouse" above to "warhorse," because my spell > checker tolded me to. As I typed "warhouse," thinking I was typing, > "warhorse," I was thinking how I was using a cliche after criticizing > another's use of them. My subconscious tolded me to write something > more interesting, which I do think "warhouse" is. But this is a serious > post, so I'll go with "warhorse." Frankly, "warehouse" would be more interesting, and perhaps more indicative of the source of such poems. My 2 cents. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 26 20:28:11 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:28:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps' crazed ars poetica Message-ID: I think you're taking this a bit too seriously. Can one poem represent all that is failing in US poesy? It's a Billy Collinseque romp, with plenty sound play and wink&nod references going on, while working in the confessional with a lite touch. It's a bit of fun, by someone whom methinks has been there, as they say. It's not the death knell resounding across the Atlantic and the Pacific. Finnegan In a message dated 8/26/2007 1:29:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jorgensen_a at yahoo.com writes: I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. This is precisely what is wrong with poetry Stateside - and I know y'all got something invested in it. I just returned from Kolkata, talks and interviews with "Ginsberg's boys" - and Creeley was my mentor and dear friend. As Egon Schiele said: Secession! Ya, I think I can say as much - especially if you are offering such cultural pollution!!! - and what is SLACK. AGJ new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu You can reach the person managing the list at new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: From Haiku To Lyriku (Bob Grumman) 2. Re: To poetry (Anny Ballardini) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 13:37:58 -0500 From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] From Haiku To Lyriku To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <46D07706.40707 at nut-n-but.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Robin Hamilton wrote: > Bob, > > What's the composite price, including p&p to the UK, of both this > anthology and your Shakespeare book? (I can do a cheque in US $$$, > which would be easiest for you, I guess.) > > Robin Yikes, I hate to say, Robin, but . . . I should think $50 would cover it. --Bob ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:09:22 +0200 From: "Anny Ballardini" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] To poetry To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <002f01c7e75c$364a1260$9aa83852 at ANNY> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" what a lucky guy, I tell you. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 26 21:30:22 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 02:30:22 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Picking Begonias with Ashley Capps References: <959944.77875.qm@web54606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007501c7e849$d66ad250$4001a8c0@CoreDuo> This is my second attempt (break in the middle, and I might tuck on the previous draft at the end) to engage in this thread, and untease a set of multiple bemusements. One bemusement -- and this might simply be because so much of my head is currently stuck in slang and its origins in cant in the 1500s in England ... ... and hey, it's not just English, folks. Unless I'm wrong, every single dictionary of slang, American and otherwise, gets the term "shoulder hitter" wrong. It wasn't *just any old plug-ugly, but specifically a term for members of the heavy mob who worked as enforcers for the pols. Probably most current in New York. I mean, anyone who knows the least bit about the wierd tangle of Tammany Hall politics in the 1850s, and the ongoing feud between and among George Washington Matsell, New York Chief of Police, "Captain" Isaiah Rynders, head of the Empire Club, and Mike Walsh who ran the opposing Spartan Brotherhood and memorably described Matsell as "300 lbs of blubber and malice", would know that. Which was one of the nicer things said about Matsell, who managed to offend the NYT, Tammany Hall, the Abolitionists, and just about everyone whom it was possible *to offend. Anyway, when I read Alex's first sentence: I don't mean to be crass, but this poem SH**S. As far as I could interpret the coy asterisks, this would seem to suggest that the poem shits, which is a locution I've not come across. S*cks, yes, which would make sense in the context, but "shits"? Is this a new cutting edge term of disapprobation current among rap poets, that I've missed? Or what? Bemused from Bormondsley. I was kinda thinking to go back to the poem, which I'd vaguely flagged when David first posted it, if it could generate this kind of heat, and did, then looked at Alex's comment: ... I just returned from Kolkata, talks and interviews with "Ginsberg's boys" ... ... well, my sense when I read the poem (again) was that it was all too part of the 'Whitman to Ginsburg and onwards' line, so it seemed an odd context to chose to criticise the poem. But then there was the time ago when there was this split over line endings in Philip Levine which turned on inter alia English vs. US hearings, so that might just be me. Whatever, I printed out the poem and looked at it a bit more carefully. And yeah, it's not Ginsberg (thank god). If anything, the biggest influence would seem to be John Berryman. But I'm now bemused as to why Bob wrote: There is some fun with language here, too. And the warhorse of a theme is one I'm a sucker for. The poem has colorful imagery. Blah blah blah. My intuition is that the poet is young and will get a lot better. Damning with faint praise to put it mildly, though Bob does seem to pick on the things I like about the poem, just not think they're that well done. Oh, well, even from the first, I liked: ... loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible ... What threw at first me was the "floozy" in line two, as I'd assumed from the name that the poet was a man, writing the usual "address to the muse" stuff, only then poetry itself should be a floozy, nah? ... Turns out the poet is female, and the persona in the poem is (thus?) meant to be female, which makes more sense. But I still don't get the last line, "that permits my red begonias". But maybe the other poems in the book provide a context. Certainly the "sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball / into the afterlife" cross-refers to at least one other poem in the collection: http://www3.uakron.edu/uapress/pdfs/capps.pdf Anyway, I'm off to see if I can find any more of her poems on the web. Intenational postage is *so expensive. :-( Robin. (Oh, here's what I wrote earlier, before I broke off: Hey, I just bopped onto the list after spending bloody hours preparing a reading copy for myself of Shadwell's Squire of Alsatia from the C-H English Prose Drama Database text (not that I imagine anyone will be interested in this), and the first thing I notice is Bob's two-free-books offer, just after I'd stuffed four pamphlets into the envelope I was sending his cheque in, in hopes he might feel generous and do that very thing, so why did I bother? Then Alex's brilliantly insightful piece of criticism sent me back to the poem David posted. Hm ... Not to go into the critical whatsits of it all, one thing struck me as ironic: Alex: I just returned from Kolkata, talks and interviews with "Ginsberg's boys" <...> Ya, I think I can say as much - especially if you are offering such cultural pollution!!! - and what is SLACK. ... as what immediately struck me on re-reading was how completely in the line of Ginsberg, going back to Whitman (whom I've just reluctantly instated on my Major Canonical Poet-Authors in English Shelf) "The Nearest Simile Is Respiration" is. So I mean, from the outside, what's most striking formally about the poem is how it locks so tightly into a specifically USAmerican tradition. Then I wondered is this just me or is it another case of the English (Scots) vs. US ear, that tangled us up over lineation in Philip Levine? Any other non-YoozAmuricans around care to comment on this? Back to drafting an introduction to peddlar's French as it emerges in England in the early 1500s ... Robin [The high point of this so far is a tentative suggestion that Julie Coleman in Slang1 -- the first of her three volumes of a history of slang dictionaries -- translates "maund nace" as "tipsy drunk" instead of "drunken beggar", because she prints Thomas Dekker's *rewriting of the phrase from Robert Copeland's The High Way the the Spittal House (1530) but picks up Farmer's gloss, which she notes, in Musa Pedestris, but which refers to the *original Copeland phrase -- "maimed nace" -- which doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense, admittedly, and suggests (to me) that Copeland simply misheard "maund" as the more familiar (to him) "maimed" ... He (Copeland) also mishears "tour" as "tear". So it goes ... ************************************************************** The Nearest Simile Is Respiration To poetry I was boozed I was doped I was maybe a floozy before you knew me, loose leafed like autumn and most of the books of the Old Testament that fell out of my father's Bible. I had a body. I had a habit of hauling my telescope into the outskirts, ransacking all the toothsome blackness for what: a reason not to do me in. Proof I was more than the seasonal ragbag detritus choking the rooftop gutters, more than a piece of the cosmic dust in some ruined philosophy. I could not be consoled by the universal Sisyphus in us all, the dung beetle nuzzling its putrid globe. I could not hitch my wagon. The stars and stars abrade my notions of my Self; tricuspid Eros chewed me raw; Jesus Christ rubbed mud in my eyes, and I saw not. I did not see. But with you! my sweetheart hairshirt, my syntactic gondolier, ruffian for hire, befoolable irresolute Chanticleer: with you, I back-float the massy and heretofore unnavigable childhood algal blooms, where no fish swam. No fish have swum that Mississippi. With you, I forgive my father's notes to NASA, the self-inflicted swastika tattoo, my sister's coked-up juggernaut cannonball into the afterlife. I forgive the afterlife, resurrect John Lennon and the jukebox at the Quik 'N' Hot, infect myself with a rare strain of tarantism. With you, I dance the summum bonum. With you, I am greater than or equal to the lack, and luck is weather that permits my red begonias. --Ashley Capps. Mistaking the Sea for Green Fields. University of Akron Press, 2006. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 26 21:42:19 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 02:42:19 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] To poetry References: <513C20AC-35F4-48BE-8CE3-0CBEF802F1D6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <008601c7e84b$81f5a860$4001a8c0@CoreDuo> Ashley Capps, "The Nearest Simile Is Respiration" "No fish / have swum that Mississippi" -- is this possibly a reference, deliberately wrong or otherwise, to the mistaken version of Berryman's suicide which has him drown himself in the Missisipi rather than less romantically jumping off the edge of a car-park? Robin (Associated trivia -- I knew a Situationist once who went to the trouble of measuring out Berryman's Jump [he was around at the time], where he hit the tarmac, and said the newpaper reports at the time were out by five feet. Also Guy Debord's widow, Alice Becker-Ho, has written a fairly radical short text arguing for the Romani origin of *all European cant languages. Something spectacular about their society, one supposes. R.) From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Sun Aug 26 22:06:25 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] An Apology Message-ID: <424998.49408.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One really hates to be crude (to come across as crude) and unfriendly, to approach an issue at such a pace that whatever that meant to be both intelligently and benevolently delivered comes out and sputters as merely alienating - and I am certainly a victim of my own perplexities. Everything I said, I mean - certainly - and will be held accountable to these opinions and actions. We all have lots invested "in things," as they say, and my argument, still to be adequately articulated, is not with this list or anyone on it. More adeptly said: when one attempts to broaden discourse there is the difficulty in expecting too much from many might just not get it . In a round-table discussion in Kolkata a few weeks back, I was honored at being able to sit with a truly brilliant group of individuals and talk about "text" and this caste called "poet". Anyway, and providing few signposts, again an apology is offered. As said, we all have quite a lot invested in things. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 26 22:38:03 2007 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:38:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Apology References: <424998.49408.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b501c7e853$4b260160$4001a8c0@CoreDuo> Hey, Alex, I'm still bemused by "SH**S". Did you mean "sucks", or am I being singularly inept and dumb? After I sent my own post, it occurred to me that you might be making a complex reference the poem by Jonathan Swift which ends, "Celia, Celia, Celia sh*ts!". (I think Swift printed it with the asterisk.) Or possibly a pun on the poet's name? But it's the problem of whether "mistakes" are intended deliberately or not. I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mississippi reference in Capps' poem is to Berryman's suicide, but without knowing more of the context (I've managed to scrape quite a few of her poems off the Web now) I *still don't know whether or not we're intended to see the speaker as getting this wrong, or simply that Capps bought the over-common drowning version. (I say this with some personal anguish since in my own elegy for Berryman did that very thing *** -- I'd like to pretend it was deliberate, but at the time I wrote the poem, I didn't know any better. Worse, I can't see how to revise it to get the "historical facts" right. Then there's the problem of calling the heroine of "Berryman's Sonnets" Lise when the latest edition rewrites her back to Jean. Yuck!) Robin *** http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/ChideOne/Fourth%20Chiding.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander Jorgensen To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:06 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] An Apology One really hates to be crude (to come across as crude) and unfriendly, to approach an issue at such a pace that whatever that meant to be both intelligently and benevolently delivered comes out and sputters as merely alienating - and I am certainly a victim of my own perplexities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 26 23:42:50 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:42:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <648208b60708261636i7ee200dcs79ce7bc08f71eefe@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> <648208b60708261636i7ee200dcs79ce7bc08f71eefe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D2483A.4050804@nut-n-but.net> James Cervantes wrote: > On 8/26/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> >> (Ha, I just changed "warhouse" above to "warhorse," because my spell >> checker tolded me to. As I typed "warhouse," thinking I was typing, >> "warhorse," I was thinking how I was using a cliche after criticizing >> another's use of them. My subconscious tolded me to write something >> more interesting, which I do think "warhouse" is. But this is a serious >> post, so I'll go with "warhorse." >> > > Frankly, "warehouse" would be more interesting, and perhaps more > indicative of the source of such poems. > > My 2 cents. > > > -- Jim Aha, so that's what I was trying to say! I agree that it'd work better--but something about a "warhouse" intrigues me, not sure why. Oops, now I've thought of another step--to "whorehouse." I think I'll leave this subject. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Sun Aug 26 23:36:43 2007 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:36:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> References: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> <46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <46D246CB.3000204@myuw.net> I am going to write a chapbook full of poems about things that have nothing to do with war. I'm going to title it "warhouse" and dedicate it to Bob Grumman. It will be self published and no one but my mother and my friends will read it. vive la poesie. Bob Grumman wrote: > I think maybe if Alexander had titled his post, "One of the main > things wrong with the Stateside poetry scene," I wouldn't have > posted. But I don't see how one can fault American Poetry because > some poets, or even too many poets, write stuff that is--well, not > terrifically good. The problem is not this poem but the fact that a > university press published it, and other poems (one assumes) at its > level, and would not consider publishing anything that takes some kind > of aesthetic chances, along with just about all the other university > presses in the country. > > The poem itself isn't really too bad, although I could point out all > kinds of elements in it that I'd consider flaws: cliches (like > "ransacked" in this context), sentimentality, not all that > arrestingly off language, a premise that is too clear--and not really > supported (i.e., poetry is good, but why? or how does it make life > worth living?) Odd, I just realized that I don't know from the poem > whether the poet has been saved as a reader or writer of poetry. Or > both. In this case, I feel that the poem would be better if more > specific. Indicate that writing poetry makes life worthwhile, then > one can specify what happens when one writes that gives one as sense > of meaningfulness. > > There is some fun with language here, too. And the warhorse of a > theme is one I'm a sucker for. The poem has colorful imagery. Blah > blah blah. My intuition is that the poet is young and will get a lot > better. > (Ha, I just changed "warhouse" above to "warhorse," because my spell > checker tolded me to. As I typed "warhouse," thinking I was typing, > "warhorse," I was thinking how I was using a cliche after criticizing > another's use of them. My subconscious tolded me to write something > more interesting, which I do think "warhouse" is. But this is a > serious post, so I'll go with "warhorse." > > Back to Alexander, he pushed another buzzer of mine by so emphatically > castigating the poem and all of stateside poetry without any > support--David's problem, too, I gather. I do feel that at a > discussion group like this it's okay if someone wants to simply say > yes or not to a poem someone posts, or, "nice poem," or "I didn't > think much of that one." I don't think one should support every > opinion one utters--unless making a large point, like Alexander was. > > I also found the reference to Creeley amusing. Some find post-Creeley > poetry as passe as Alexander finds the poem we're talking about. > > Okay, that's my two cents--times ten. > > --Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 27 07:11:06 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:11:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What is wrong with poetry Stateside In-Reply-To: <46D246CB.3000204@myuw.net> References: <000001c7e819$0fbd7750$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu><46D2030F.9070209@nut-n-but.net> <46D246CB.3000204@myuw.net> Message-ID: <46D2B14A.4030500@nut-n-but.net> Jason Quackenbush wrote: > I am going to write a chapbook full of poems about things that have > nothing to do with war. Is that possible? A poem with no reference to war is complicit with makers of weapons of mass destruction, imperialists, torturers, etc., by failing to protest their atrocities. But thanks for dedicating your book to me, Jason. I'll start saving up so I can buy a copy! --Bob G. From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 09:42:47 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] HELP A FRIEND IN EXILE: NEW BOOK BY KATHUP TSERING Message-ID: <913158.9244.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> BUY THIS BOOK. http://books.lulu.com/content/1142809 Regards, Alexander Jorgensen -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 27 10:02:42 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:02:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Apology In-Reply-To: <424998.49408.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <424998.49408.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9B6CA1211BF23-FF0-72AD@FWM-D19.sysops.aol.com> Alexander, no problem here with strong opinions. Of course it's always nice to see them fleshed out a bit with some analysis, one's time permitting. Seems to me Capps is closer to the NY School poets than to Creeley. But I'd like to hear more about the Kolkata event. Take any notes? Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Jorgensen To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 10:06 pm Subject: [New-Poetry] An Apology One really hates to be crude (to come across as crude) and unfriendly, to approach an issue at such a pace that whatever that meant to be both intelligently and benevolently delivered comes out and sputters as merely alienating - and I am certainly a victim of my own perplexities. Everything I said, I mean - certainly - and will be held accountable to these opinions and actions. We all have lots invested "in things," as they say, and my argument, still to be adequately articulated, is not with this list or anyone on it. More adeptly said: when one attempts to broaden discourse there is the difficulty in expecting too much from many might just not get it . In a round-table discussion in Kolkata a few weeks back,? I was honored at being able to sit with a truly brilliant group of individuals and talk about "text" and this caste called "poet". Anyway, and providing few signposts, again an apology is offered. As said, we all have quite a lot invested in things. Regards, Alexander Jorgensen ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.mccall at navy.mil Mon Aug 27 10:57:04 2007 From: steven.mccall at navy.mil (Mccall, Steven NAVAIR) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:57:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] HELP A FRIEND IN EXILE: NEW BOOK BY KATHUP TSERING In-Reply-To: <913158.9244.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <913158.9244.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A5DE68@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alexander Jorgensen Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:43 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] HELP A FRIEND IN EXILE: NEW BOOK BY KATHUP TSERING BUY THIS BOOK. http://books.lulu.com/content/1142809 Regards, Alexander Jorgensen ----------------------------------------- Here's two poems from Tsering's "Help a Friend in Exile." I prefer Capps' messy poem to any of Tsering's. Capps' lines "I could not be consoled by the universal/Sisyphus in us all" did it for me, especially as Camus interpreted the Sisyphus myth to be an absurd, futile search for meaning in life. So Capps turns to poetry, perhaps not for meaning, but at least to "dance the summum bonum," another great line. Tsering seems rigidly morbid in comparison. IN THIS LIFE I SAW a man devoid of limps lying on the ground a headless horse its hair bristled for fear of the wind in this life I saw. a soldier dead in the battlefield a broken gun upon his head a gun that fell him down in this life I saw. a child struggled across the snow-mountains left his parent back home over the snowy pass he lost his toes in this life I saw THE DEPRAVED ERA (1959-1969) ===1=== Life threatened Separated By the devils hand Falsities spoken Flowers turned To weapons Life As it was Gone Emotions rocked Back and forth Up and down Homes were desolated Battles reigned Supreme Life now a living hell Where Angels, doves, Arhat Became dishonored Crimes portrayed to be true Threatened the innocent No place on earth Could be worse Than home Still the desire To go home Remains Triumphant ===2=== I remember As I feel isolated from Tibet The conquests that were made in fury When roads were battered Into darkness I remember This horrific Terror With the passing years Houses have been mended Yet, the scent of intense gunpowder Runs in rivers through my veins Daylight was turned to dusk And lives were destroyed, great suffering One wall was left standing of my home Lonely, it was, no longer whole Buddha, ravaged at the alter Broken in pieces on the ground Intended to tear at my faith Yet, dedication and prayerfulness Was not destroyed in the heart of me Buddha lives I shall survive My father Close to my memory Brave with integrity, fearless in death Love of his country foremost In the end Land was raped Into silence Now, another dawning has arrived Feeling anew, my spirit lives Through the intensity Of this lucid dream Kathup Tsering From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Aug 27 12:55:07 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:55:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. Message-ID: <3DE11BEF-3E72-4C7E-8537-21E66915F58C@ripon.edu> Jim Finnegan's take on Ashley Capps's poem is close to mine: it was a nice bit of fun, I thought, by a poet I'd not heard till very recently. Frisky stuff, taking some interesting swerves with figure and diction. But I've been reflecting a bit lately on one of the many fault lines that occurs in poetry, contemporary or otherwise. I'm thinking of the distinction between plain style poetry and that which is more rhetorically charged--"The Red Wheelbarrow," say, versus "A Refusal to Mourn." I suppose that the downside and upside of each style are well enough known. And it's not as if we need to pledge allegiance to one or the other. Certainly I am not willing to abandon either style, myself; depending on my mood, I reach for Williams or Thomas, often in the same hour, and in my writing life I wander this way and that ad lib. But I will say that, as someone who reads a great deal of contemporary poetry, I am probably a bit of a sucker for the high- voltage style when encountering new voices. Maybe I am too easily seduced by friskiness, or too often. That's one of my weaknesses as reader, probably. But when I wade through page after page (or screen after screen) of decorous, even-keeled diction, poems that are perfectly unified tonally and well managed in their movements, I often find myself yearning for some rough edges, bad behavior, and even flirtation with all the usual no-nos (sentimentality, purple rhetoric, incoherence, etc.). I've always liked Hugo's (?) remark that any poem not risking sentimentality wasn't doing its job. Of course, I don't want the poem to *succumb* to incoherence, etc., just to do enough of a fly- over to raise my pulse rate above Jaded. I've seen enough of Ashley Capps's work recently to know that she's someone I want to keep my eye on. Whether or not she'll enter my pantheon, I don't know or care at this point. Anyway, here's what I would propose as a good solid poem from the other end of the stylistic spectrum, which, after my little Capps fest, I found myself really savoring. Fiction I think of the innocent lives Of people in novels who know they?ll die But not that the novel will end. How different they are From us. Here, the moon stares dumbly down, Through scattered clouds, onto the sleeping town, And the wind rounds up the fallen leaves, And somebody?namely me?deep in his chair, Riffles the pages left, knowing there?s not Much time for the man and woman in the rented room, For the red light over the door, for the iris Tossing its shadow against the wall; not much time For the soldiers under the trees that line The river, for the wounded being hauled away To the cities of the interior where they will stay; The war that raged for years will come to a close, And so will everything else, except for a presence Hard to define, a trace, like the scent of grass After a night of rain or the remains of a voice That lets us know without spelling it out Not to despair; if the end is come, it too will pass. --Mark Strand. The Continuous Life. Knopf, 1990. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Mon Aug 27 13:59:46 2007 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:59:46 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 38, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <200708271600.l7RG06HK002604@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200708271600.l7RG06HK002604@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <0E2E42D3-A896-4A35-B6FC-C29A5D6B7D74@verizon.net> On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:00 AM, David Graham wrote: > "I suppose that the downside and upside of each style are > well enough known. And it's not as if we need to pledge allegiance > to one or the other. " David as always is my Hero. In regard to a recurrent pile-up of varied spirit-tight boxes, would it be too much to ask for a recitation of the mantra above once a day at least along with our five fruits and vegetables? B. > From steven.mccall at navy.mil Mon Aug 27 14:06:01 2007 From: steven.mccall at navy.mil (Mccall, Steven NAVAIR) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:06:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. In-Reply-To: <3DE11BEF-3E72-4C7E-8537-21E66915F58C@ripon.edu> References: <3DE11BEF-3E72-4C7E-8537-21E66915F58C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A5DF86@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> David, Nice Strand poem. I've been rereading James Longenbach's "Threshold" this week, such dexterous poems, like this one: BURGLARY It's not the violation but the weight Of everything left behind: dark clouds Reciprocate the nothing in your eyes With the suspicion there's nothing missing Under surfaces. A finch abandons What she built in the ailanthus and if You were a bird you'd leave here too- Leave all the things not yet accumulated, One white ribbon dangling from the nest. Consult the memory for a scene more Welcoming than this: dawn so scarlet Off the island, once, you prayed although You hadn't said a prayer since childhood. Whatever can't be stolen can't be owned But even thoughts like these are miserly And what remains may never be accounted for. A wine glass found weeks later in the woods. The telephone, dead when you pick it up, Sky a thousand different shades of gray- Hello? Hello? Who measures out the value Of accumulation, who can tell You when it's gone? Broken window or A blur of wings above empty mouths: Please make a list of everything you own. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:55 To: NewPoetry & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. Jim Finnegan's take on Ashley Capps's poem is close to mine: it was a nice bit of fun, I thought, by a poet I'd not heard till very recently. Frisky stuff, taking some interesting swerves with figure and diction. But I've been reflecting a bit lately on one of the many fault lines that occurs in poetry, contemporary or otherwise. I'm thinking of the distinction between plain style poetry and that which is more rhetorically charged--"The Red Wheelbarrow," say, versus "A Refusal to Mourn." I suppose that the downside and upside of each style are well enough known. And it's not as if we need to pledge allegiance to one or the other. Certainly I am not willing to abandon either style, myself; depending on my mood, I reach for Williams or Thomas, often in the same hour, and in my writing life I wander this way and that ad lib. But I will say that, as someone who reads a great deal of contemporary poetry, I am probably a bit of a sucker for the high-voltage style when encountering new voices. Maybe I am too easily seduced by friskiness, or too often. That's one of my weaknesses as reader, probably. But when I wade through page after page (or screen after screen) of decorous, even-keeled diction, poems that are perfectly unified tonally and well managed in their movements, I often find myself yearning for some rough edges, bad behavior, and even flirtation with all the usual no-nos (sentimentality, purple rhetoric, incoherence, etc.). I've always liked Hugo's (?) remark that any poem not risking sentimentality wasn't doing its job. Of course, I don't want the poem to *succumb* to incoherence, etc., just to do enough of a fly-over to raise my pulse rate above Jaded. I've seen enough of Ashley Capps's work recently to know that she's someone I want to keep my eye on. Whether or not she'll enter my pantheon, I don't know or care at this point. Anyway, here's what I would propose as a good solid poem from the other end of the stylistic spectrum, which, after my little Capps fest, I found myself really savoring. Fiction I think of the innocent lives Of people in novels who know they'll die But not that the novel will end. How different they are From us. Here, the moon stares dumbly down, Through scattered clouds, onto the sleeping town, And the wind rounds up the fallen leaves, And somebody-namely me-deep in his chair, Riffles the pages left, knowing there's not Much time for the man and woman in the rented room, For the red light over the door, for the iris Tossing its shadow against the wall; not much time For the soldiers under the trees that line The river, for the wounded being hauled away To the cities of the interior where they will stay; The war that raged for years will come to a close, And so will everything else, except for a presence Hard to define, a trace, like the scent of grass After a night of rain or the remains of a voice That lets us know without spelling it out Not to despair; if the end is come, it too will pass. --Mark Strand. The Continuous Life. Knopf, 1990. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== From steven.mccall at navy.mil Mon Aug 27 14:15:35 2007 From: steven.mccall at navy.mil (Mccall, Steven NAVAIR) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:15:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. In-Reply-To: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A5DF86@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> References: <3DE11BEF-3E72-4C7E-8537-21E66915F58C@ripon.edu> <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A5DF86@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> Message-ID: <279F81943E9C004D93DBEE14FE91B1BB01A5DF9E@NAEALKHREX04VA.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil> Why doe the enjambment get so screwed up when we send these??? -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Mccall, Steven NAVAIR Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 14:06 To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. David, Nice Strand poem. I've been rereading James Longenbach's "Threshold" this week, such dexterous poems, like this one: BURGLARY It's not the violation but the weight Of everything left behind: dark clouds Reciprocate the nothing in your eyes With the suspicion there's nothing missing Under surfaces. A finch abandons What she built in the ailanthus and if You were a bird you'd leave here too- Leave all the things not yet accumulated, One white ribbon dangling from the nest. Consult the memory for a scene more Welcoming than this: dawn so scarlet Off the island, once, you prayed although You hadn't said a prayer since childhood. Whatever can't be stolen can't be owned But even thoughts like these are miserly And what remains may never be accounted for. A wine glass found weeks later in the woods. The telephone, dead when you pick it up, Sky a thousand different shades of gray- Hello? Hello? Who measures out the value Of accumulation, who can tell You when it's gone? Broken window or A blur of wings above empty mouths: Please make a list of everything you own. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:55 To: NewPoetry & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. Jim Finnegan's take on Ashley Capps's poem is close to mine: it was a nice bit of fun, I thought, by a poet I'd not heard till very recently. Frisky stuff, taking some interesting swerves with figure and diction. But I've been reflecting a bit lately on one of the many fault lines that occurs in poetry, contemporary or otherwise. I'm thinking of the distinction between plain style poetry and that which is more rhetorically charged--"The Red Wheelbarrow," say, versus "A Refusal to Mourn." I suppose that the downside and upside of each style are well enough known. And it's not as if we need to pledge allegiance to one or the other. Certainly I am not willing to abandon either style, myself; depending on my mood, I reach for Williams or Thomas, often in the same hour, and in my writing life I wander this way and that ad lib. But I will say that, as someone who reads a great deal of contemporary poetry, I am probably a bit of a sucker for the high-voltage style when encountering new voices. Maybe I am too easily seduced by friskiness, or too often. That's one of my weaknesses as reader, probably. But when I wade through page after page (or screen after screen) of decorous, even-keeled diction, poems that are perfectly unified tonally and well managed in their movements, I often find myself yearning for some rough edges, bad behavior, and even flirtation with all the usual no-nos (sentimentality, purple rhetoric, incoherence, etc.). I've always liked Hugo's (?) remark that any poem not risking sentimentality wasn't doing its job. Of course, I don't want the poem to *succumb* to incoherence, etc., just to do enough of a fly-over to raise my pulse rate above Jaded. I've seen enough of Ashley Capps's work recently to know that she's someone I want to keep my eye on. Whether or not she'll enter my pantheon, I don't know or care at this point. Anyway, here's what I would propose as a good solid poem from the other end of the stylistic spectrum, which, after my little Capps fest, I found myself really savoring. Fiction I think of the innocent lives Of people in novels who know they'll die But not that the novel will end. How different they are From us. Here, the moon stares dumbly down, Through scattered clouds, onto the sleeping town, And the wind rounds up the fallen leaves, And somebody-namely me-deep in his chair, Riffles the pages left, knowing there's not Much time for the man and woman in the rented room, For the red light over the door, for the iris Tossing its shadow against the wall; not much time For the soldiers under the trees that line The river, for the wounded being hauled away To the cities of the interior where they will stay; The war that raged for years will come to a close, And so will everything else, except for a presence Hard to define, a trace, like the scent of grass After a night of rain or the remains of a voice That lets us know without spelling it out Not to despair; if the end is come, it too will pass. --Mark Strand. The Continuous Life. Knopf, 1990. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 27 15:27:23 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:27:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Capps, style, etc. References: <3DE11BEF-3E72-4C7E-8537-21E66915F58C@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <004c01c7e8e0$4b7cfff0$4fae3452@ANNY> OPPS, he's a she, re.: Ashley Capps. re.: Barry Spack's comment David Graham is not my hero but well among my heroes. There is an Italian saying to define people like him and others on this list: "wells of knowledge" - pozzi di scienza. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 27 16:26:31 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] litmag watch: absent #2 Message-ID: <8C9B6FFB05C707A-498-898F@WEBMAIL-DB13.sysops.aol.com> absent magazine issue two now online absent magazine * issue two now online at http://absentmag.org/issue02/ featuring poetry by Jasper Bernes, Charles Bernstein, Regis Bonvicino, Jack Boettcher, Tim Botta, Julia Cohen, Shanna Compton, John Cotter, Shafer Hall, Lisa Jarnot, Pierre Joris, Joan Kane, Noelle Kocot, Jason Labbe, Kathleen Ossip, The Pines, Matthew Rohrer, Kate Schapira, Mathias Svalina, Kathryn Tabb, Allison Titus and Betsy Wheeler. in translation with Sergei Kitov and Octavo Paz. musical work by Aaron Einbond. prose by Joe Amato, Peter Ciccariello, Simon DeDeo, Adam Golaski, Kent Johnson, Amy Newman, Davis Schneiderman and Tyler Williams. edited by Elisa Gabbert and Simon DeDeo; with great gratitude to Irwin Chen and his class at Parsons School of Design in New York City. work solicited for issue three: please read guidelines at http://absentmag.org/issue02/html/guidelines.html * letters to the editor solicited: please read http://absentmag.org/issue02/html/letters.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. 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URL: From Opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Aug 27 19:55:17 2007 From: Opus40-01 at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:55:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Situations 6 Message-ID: <46D36465.2070502@opus40.org> You won't want to miss this week's thrilling episode of Situations, in which we get a glimpse of The Major's library, Etienne's perfidy and Ross Perot's semi-flaccidity, and we are introduced to Elizabeth's mysterious secret method of satisfying men...but has Elizabeth lost her Major forever? http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=67 -- Tad Richards http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/ http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ From jforjames at aol.com Mon Aug 27 21:34:20 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:34:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cormac prized Message-ID: <8C9B72AB0A4F0D8-9C0-1DCF@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070827/ap_en_ot/literary_award Cormac McCarthy wins literary award Mon Aug 27, 12:46 PM ET ? LONDON - Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Cormac McCarthy has been awarded one of Britain's oldest literary honors for his tale of a father and son's travels through a post-apocalyptic America.? ? The University of Edinburgh announced over the weekend that McCarthy won this year's James Tait Black Memorial Prize for fiction for "The Road," which has already garnered the author a Pulitzer Prize. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 28 09:17:43 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:17:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] mtvU's poet laureate: John Ashbery Message-ID: _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin &adxnnlx=1188306657-ER/X+Eo9jhP5IEbdJqxFBA_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/books/27laur.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1188306657-ER/X+Eo9jhP5IE bdJqxFBA) An 80-Year-Old Poet for the MTV Generation By MELENA RYZIK Published: August 27, 2007 MtvU, the subsidiary of MTV Networks that is broadcast only on college campuses, will announce today that it has selected its first poet laureate. No, he doesn?t rap. And it?s not Bob Dylan, or even Justin Timberlake. It is John Ashbery... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 28 10:46:29 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:46:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Cormac prized References: <8C9B72AB0A4F0D8-9C0-1DCF@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001601c7e982$380d1430$a0ee3652@ANNY> Although I haven't read The Road, I think this prize is well deserved. Suttree is such a story, believe it or not it has been making my days since when I started reading it. Luckily I have very little time, that is why the enchantment continues, :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:34 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Cormac prized http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070827/ap_en_ot/literary_award Cormac McCarthy wins literary award Mon Aug 27, 12:46 PM ET LONDON - Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Cormac McCarthy has been awarded one of Britain's oldest literary honors for his tale of a father and son's travels through a post-apocalyptic America. The University of Edinburgh announced over the weekend that McCarthy won this year's James Tait Black Memorial Prize for fiction for "The Road," which has already garnered the author a Pulitzer Prize. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Aug 28 13:00:29 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:00:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] mtvU's poet laureate: John Ashbery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D454AD.6080103@nut-n-but.net> Interesting how the low culture morons of the mainstream so frequently imitate the "high" culture morons of the mainstream. --Bob G. From jforjames at aol.com Tue Aug 28 17:52:18 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:52:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Naipaul on Walcott Message-ID: <8C9B7D4D684A99B-AA8-6851@webmail-stg-d06.sysops.aol.com> http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2155514,00.html Caribbean Odyssey When he first read Derek Walcott's poems, VS Naipaul was overwhelmed by the talent of his fellow West Indian, who, at the age of 18, was already a master. The young poet had created a new language to describe both the beauty and the limitations of island life Saturday August 25, 2007 The Guardian ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jorgensen_a at yahoo.com Tue Aug 28 23:32:29 2007 From: jorgensen_a at yahoo.com (Alexander Jorgensen) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: FROM EXILE: THE YAK BLESSING BY KATHUP TSERING Message-ID: <237335.17396.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The Yak Blessing Kathup Tsering "Drum of a dying nation, Kathup Tsering demonstrates in his new work that breath is one's license. For thirteen years, he has dreamed, built, and graciously shared a consciousness constructed by three significant cultural forces - Tibet, the People's Republic of China, and India - and all while living in exile, much of it amid the cleansing waters and cross-cultural clime of Himalaya's ancient spires. It is with an acuity and sternness of words that Tsering conveys the most intimate of painful experiences with sensitivity, and an anticipation for renewal. With brilliance seated in both the traditional and contemporary sphere, his achievement is that he is helping to shape and re-define contemporary Indian poetry; and in doing so, reaffirms that one's voice need not be relegated to any particular genre. As with the penetrating "Don't Be Afraid, Mother," each word chosen seems to delicately trace itself, the poet's observations and passions rooted in what is open and beautiful. His collection re-animates, one could say, those lost in such areas as Barkhor, or the dedicated snowy trails leading to Nepal -- and eventual freedom." -- Alexander Jorgensen. BUY THIS BOOK. http://books.lulu.com/content/1142809 -- Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 29 09:47:35 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:47:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Editor Ed O Honored Message-ID: <8C9B85A4A621B1C-F70-D84D@webmail-stg-d04.sysops.aol.com> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07240/812542-44.stm Tuesday, August 28, 2007 By Bob Hoover, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Honors for Ed Ed Ochester's "Voltaire at Cirey, 1736" is included in "The Best American Poetry 2007." Scribner will publish the collection next month. Ochester's work is from his latest release, "Unreconstructed: Poems Selected and New," a recently published title from Pittsburgh's Autumn House Press. The poet is the longtime editor of the Pitt Poetry Series of the University of Pittsburgh Press, which earlier this year released its anthology marking 40 years of publishing poetry, "American Poetry Now." Ochester was the editor. Ochester retired several years ago as professor of English at Pitt, but continues to be co-editor with Judith Vollmer of 5 am, a poetry quarterly. Its latest edition is on newsstands and can be viewed at 5ampoetry.com. Contributors include Micki Myers, Alicia Ostriker, Mike Schneider and Michael Estabrook. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 29 11:34:52 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:34:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: "Your Eyes Stray" Message-ID: Sonnet: ?Your Eyes Stray? Your eyes stray over to the verso side of the book where you learn that short-term prospects are not indeed good. The hero wanders into a labyrinth of desire that would have daunted Casanova, or at least given him pause. The grass is always greener on the other side of the street, as it?s said. Mellow as ever, the summer wends its way autumn-ward, one fedora almost as good as another at covering that bald spot. And the war strays over yet another border on its way to wherever it?s going. Insurgents mount incessant attacks, no matter how much we do to assuage them. No, sir, the pastorale is not dead. Willows trail their branches in blood-red streams. The sheep on the hill wear their furs inside-out. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 29 12:28:18 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:28:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bumper sticker du jour: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c7ea59$a1ae4490$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> It's Yahweh Or The Highway! (Sticka for evangelist preachers. . . . After all, we can't write just for those with whom we agree.) skip -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 29 13:04:51 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:04:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 2nd anniversary of Katrina Message-ID: <001001c7ea5e$b7025fc0$f9ab3852@ANNY> on the New York Times complete coverage; audio; video; photos; first page Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Wed Aug 29 20:46:23 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:46:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Amichai conference at Yale Message-ID: <8C9B8B65301E810-68C-6C7F@WEBMAIL-DB01.sysops.aol.com> http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=45923 Conference at Yale to Focus on Israeli Writer Yehuda Amichai ? New Haven, Conn. ? Yale University will host an international conference on October 20 and 21 celebrating the life and work of Israeli poet Yehuda Amichai. The conference, ?Poetics and Politics in Yehuda Amichai?s World,? is free and open to the public. Sessions will take place in the Whitney Humanities Center auditorium, 53 Wall St. Amichai, considered one of the great poets of modern times, has been praised for the depth and complexity of his language as well as its accessibility, even in translation from the original Hebrew. His books were best sellers in Israel, and in the years before his death, he enjoyed the status of a celebrity. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 30 17:05:18 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:05:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Porchia's Voices online Message-ID: <8C9B9609ADB334B-F54-E1D9@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Porchia's Voices http://www.antonioporchia.com.ar/siteENG/voices/voices1.htm The first published ?Voices? (?Voces?) appeared in a small left-wing newspaper called ?La Fragua? (?The Forge?). The first collection of ?Voices? appeared in Buenos Aires in 1943 in an edition that Porchia paid for by himself and that carried the stamp of Impulse Association. It had a print run of 1000 copies, almost any of which was sold. His first and only published book increased every new edition with some new ?Voices?. The work of Porchia is totally composed of brief aphorisms, moral or philosophical maxims, many of which are of a high poetic hierarchy. In 1947 the French reviewer Roger Callois published some Voices in the French magazine ?La Licorne?. In 1949 he translated and published the book ?Voix? G L M Editions-Paris in its full version. Callois was surprised by the depth of ?Voices?. This edition obtained a warm welcome and was an immediate success; famous people as Andr? Breton and Henry Miller considered Porchia as one of the greatest poets of the present time. Roger Callois felt motivated to meet Porchia, and describing his first impression, he said: ?I was with a man about 50 years old, of a respectful aspect, simple and shy. He didn?t seem scholastic or was dressed in a polished way. He gave the impression of being before a humble man of the working class?. Callois suspected that Porchia was influenced by Buddist writings or maybe by Kafka; but when asked about this, Porchia answered that never in his life had he heard anything of them. He only said that his ?Voices? flowed spontaneously and that they represented different moments and experiences of his life, he simply wrote them down. The ?Voices? translated by Callois in 1949 were nominated in France for the award of the French Book Club, but finally this honor didn?t become definite since the depth and complexity of the ?Voices? didn?t make them popular. After this international acknowledgement , the local media started to take him into consideration. His ?Voices? began to be published in national magazines such as ?Sur? (South) and newspapers such as La Naci?n, Clar?n, La Prensa, etc. Porchia also had a brief participation in the closing of a municipal radio program at midnight, in which he read his ?Voices?. There appeared a record called ?Antonio Porchia by himself?. His only well known book was also translated and published in several languages. In the United States, it was translated and published by the young poet William S. Merwin in 1969. Mr. Merwin selected approximately 250 ?Voices? from almost 600 published in several editions in Spanish. His book was also published in French, German and Italian ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 30 18:04:57 2007 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:04:57 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Porchia's Voices online References: <8C9B9609ADB334B-F54-E1D9@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001201c7eb51$cdbb7000$b3ae3452@ANNY> Thank you. I forwarded to my blog. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Porchia's Voices online Porchia's Voices http://www.antonioporchia.com.ar/siteENG/voices/voices1.htm The first published ?Voices? (?Voces?) appeared in a small left-wing newspaper called ?La Fragua? (?The Forge?). The first collection of ?Voices? appeared in Buenos Aires in 1943 in an edition that Porchia paid for by himself and that carried the stamp of Impulse Association. It had a print run of 1000 copies, almost any of which was sold. His first and only published book increased every new edition with some new ?Voices?. The work of Porchia is totally composed of brief aphorisms, moral or philosophical maxims, many of which are of a high poetic hierarchy. In 1947 the French reviewer Roger Callois published some Voices in the French magazine ?La Licorne?. In 1949 he translated and published the book ?Voix? G L M Editions-Paris in its full version. Callois was surprised by the depth of ?Voices?. This edition obtained a warm welcome and was an immediate success; famous people as Andr? Breton and Henry Miller considered Porchia as one of the greatest poets of the present time. Roger Callois felt motivated to meet Porchia, and describing his first impression, he said: ?I was with a man about 50 years old, of a respectful aspect, simple and shy. He didn?t seem scholastic or was dressed in a polished way. He gave the impression of being before a humble man of the working class?. Callois suspected that Porchia was influenced by Buddist writings or maybe by Kafka; but when asked about this, Porchia answered that never in his life had he heard anything of them. He only said that his ?Voices? flowed spontaneously and that they represented different moments and experiences of his life, he simply wrote them down. The ?Voices? translated by Callois in 1949 were nominated in France for the award of the French Book Club, but finally this honor didn?t become definite since the depth and complexity of the ?Voices? didn?t make them popular. After this international acknowledgement , the local media started to take him into consideration. His ?Voices? began to be published in national magazines such as ?Sur? (South) and newspapers such as La Naci?n, Clar?n, La Prensa, etc. Porchia also had a brief participation in the closing of a municipal radio program at midnight, in which he read his ?Voices?. There appeared a record called ?Antonio Porchia by himself?. His only well known book was also translated and published in several languages. In the United States, it was translated and published by the young poet William S. Merwin in 1969. Mr. Merwin selected approximately 250 ?Voices? from almost 600 published in several editions in Spanish. His book was also published in French, German and Italian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 30 18:57:53 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:57:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Porchia's Voices online In-Reply-To: <001201c7eb51$cdbb7000$b3ae3452@ANNY> References: <8C9B9609ADB334B-F54-E1D9@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> <001201c7eb51$cdbb7000$b3ae3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C9B97054E31035-250-E787@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Anny, I love the thought of Porchia reading these brief things at midnight on radio station in Beunos Aires. I can hear between each one the pause and the faint crackle of static in middle of the night, the way they appear in a black background on this website. I wonder if he and Borges were acquainted, as friends or enemies or just together in the same South American city. I couldn't tell who was the translator of Porchia's aphorisms on this site. I have Merwin's book...but it's either in box in the attic or misshelved among my books, so I can't check these against his. Finnegan -----Original Message----- From: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Porchia's Voices online Thank you. I forwarded to my blog. ----- Original Message ----- From: jforjames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 11:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Porchia's Voices online Porchia's Voices http://www.antonioporchia.com.ar/siteENG/voices/voices1.htm The first published ?Voices? (?Voces?) appeared in a small left-wing newspaper called ?La Fragua? (?The Forge?). The first collection of ?Voices? appeared in Buenos Aires in 1943 in an edition that Porchia paid for by himself and that carried the stamp of Impulse Association. It had a print run of 1000 copies, almost any of which was sold. His first and only published book increased every new edition with some new ?Voices?. The work of Porchia is totally composed of brief aphorisms, moral or philosophical maxims, many of which are of a high poetic hierarchy. In 1947 the French reviewer Roger Callois published some Voices in the French magazine ?La Licorne?. In 1949 he translated and published the book ?Voix? G L M Editions-Paris in its full version. Callois was surprised by the depth of ?Voices?. This edition obtained a warm welcome and was an immediate success; famous people as Andr? Breton and Henry Miller considered Porchia as one of the greatest poets of the present time. Roger Callois felt motivated to meet Porchia, and describing his first impression, he said: ?I was with a man about 50 years old, of a respectful aspect, simple and shy. He didn?t seem scholastic or was dressed in a polished way. He gave the impression of being before a humble man of the working class?. Callois suspected that Porchia was influenced by Buddist writings or maybe by Kafka; but when asked about this, Porchia answered that never in his life had he heard anything of them. He only said that his ?Voices? flowed spontaneously and that they represented different moments and experiences of his life, he simply wrote them down. The ?Voices? translated by Callois in 1949 were nominated in France for the award of the French Book Club, but finally this honor didn?t become definite since the depth and complexity of the ?Voices? didn?t make them popular. After this international acknowledgement , the local media started to take him into consideration. His ?Voices? began to be published in national magazines such as ?Sur? (South) and newspapers such as La Naci?n, Clar?n, La Prensa, etc. Porchia also had a brief participation in the closing of a municipal radio program at midnight, in which he read his ?Voices?. There appeared a record called ?Antonio Porchia by himself?. His only well known book was also translated and published in several languages. In the United States, it was translated and published by the young poet William S. Merwin in 1969. Mr. Merwin selected approximately 250 ?Voices? from almost 600 published in several editions in Spanish. His book was also published in French, German and Italian AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jforjames at aol.com Thu Aug 30 21:28:43 2007 From: jforjames at aol.com (jforjames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:28:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] palindromic bob Message-ID: <8C9B985674A4B9F-AA8-A8D8@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpaperworlds%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F nuf fun found here... http://paperworlds.blogspot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmarcacci at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 06:33:53 2007 From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:33:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] palindromic bob In-Reply-To: <8C9B985674A4B9F-AA8-A8D8@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Trading... -- Bob Marcacci Choose your friends carefully. Your enemies will choose you. - Yassir Arafat > From: > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:28:43 -0400 > To: > Subject: [New-Poetry] palindromic bob > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpaperworlds%2Eblo > gspot%2Ecom%2F > > nuf fun > > found here... > > http://paperworlds.blogspot.com/ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 31 11:44:09 2007 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:44:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's plans Message-ID: <498ABDC1-5689-46F1-AFF8-F5551AC0DEF6@ripon.edu> Simic (he pronounces it like the word "mimic") doesn't yet have a plan for his term, which begins in October, but says, "All those sentences that begin with, 'Poetry must . . .,' 'The purpose of poetry is to . . .,' 'Readers of poetry should . . .' -- I will not complete any of those sentences." --article in Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/08/18/ keep_the_meter_running/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 12:10:53 2007 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:10:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's plans In-Reply-To: <498ABDC1-5689-46F1-AFF8-F5551AC0DEF6@ripon.edu> References: <498ABDC1-5689-46F1-AFF8-F5551AC0DEF6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60708310910m3c5f0084rbe3edc3625f7e25a@mail.gmail.com> So far, so good. As long as he doesn't do a 180 and finish sentences that begin "Poetry shall not . . ." or "Readers of poetry shall not . . . " - Jim On 8/31/07, David Graham wrote: > Simic (he pronounces it like the word "mimic") doesn't yet have a plan for > his term, which begins in October, but says, "All those sentences that begin > with, 'Poetry must . . .,' 'The purpose of poetry is to . . .,' 'Readers of > poetry should . . .' -- I will not complete any of those sentences." > --article in Boston Globe > > http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/08/18/keep_the_meter_running/ > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Aug 31 12:13:19 2007 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:13:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] If their window stays dark Message-ID: Old Couple They?re waiting to be murdered, Or evicted. Soon They expect to have nothing to eat. In the meantime, they sit. A violent pain is coming, they think. It will start in the heart And climb into the mouth. They?ll be carried off in stretchers, howling. Tonight they watch the window Without exchanging a word. It has rained, and now it looks Like it?s going to snow a little. I see him get up to lower the shades. If their window stays dark, I know his hand has reached hers Just as she was about to turn on the lights. --Charles Simic. Charles Simic: Selected Early Poems. George Braziller, 1999. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 31 12:41:02 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:41:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's plans In-Reply-To: <498ABDC1-5689-46F1-AFF8-F5551AC0DEF6@ripon.edu> References: <498ABDC1-5689-46F1-AFF8-F5551AC0DEF6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: So he's forgotten how to pronounce his own name, so what? I mean, we've elected us (twice!) an hombre who doesn't even remember who attacked us on 9/11. Hal "Context is everything that content is not." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Aug 31, 2007, at 11:44 AM, David Graham wrote: > Simic (he pronounces it like the word "mimic") doesn't yet have a > plan for his term, which begins in October, but says, "All those > sentences that begin with, 'Poetry must . . .,' 'The purpose of > poetry is to . . .,' 'Readers of poetry should . . .' -- I will not > complete any of those sentences." > --article in Boston Globe > > http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2007/08/18/ > keep_the_meter_running/ > > > > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html > > Poetry Library: > http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Fri Aug 31 13:03:40 2007 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:03:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] If their window stays dark In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c7ebf0$e6f5df20$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> I decided because of such postings as this to read these poems prior to seeing who wrote them. I was happily surprised with this one. An existentialism that love can briefly quiet. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:13 AM To: NewPoetry & Views Subject: [New-Poetry] If their window stays dark Old Couple They're waiting to be murdered, Or evicted. Soon They expect to have nothing to eat. In the meantime, they sit. A violent pain is coming, they think. It will start in the heart And climb into the mouth. They'll be carried off in stretchers, howling. Tonight they watch the window Without exchanging a word. It has rained, and now it looks Like it's going to snow a little. I see him get up to lower the shades. If their window stays dark, I know his hand has reached hers Just as she was about to turn on the lights. --Charles Simic. Charles Simic: Selected Early Poems. George Braziller, 1999. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/About%20Me.html Poetry Library: http://web.mac.com/drjazz/iWeb/Site/DGPoLibrary.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 31 13:16:58 2007 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:16:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet: Time to Seek Help Message-ID: <1F51A481-E722-42FE-B8B4-068BA8CB9D53@earthlink.net> Sonnet: Time to Seek Help The brain, while necessary, is not sufficient to avoid common errors, which, as always, are only a stone?s throw away. Making Up One?s Own Bed is required reading for anyone with an interest in modern poetry. Confident diagnoses suggest that Buckingham Palace guards blink once every ten minutes like well-oiled machines. The entire process can be easily performed without ever setting foot in a gym. And so say all of us. If your apartment?s so large you can?t ever find what you?re looking for, then move out and get a smaller one. If fires break out without giving you warning, it?s time to seek help?two or three sessions a week might do it. Keywords: sonnet, brain, necessity, error, stone, poetry, diagnosis, machine, process, gym, apartment, fire, help. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Fri Aug 31 14:14:53 2007 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:14:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Special on My Book In-Reply-To: <46D1C1A2.2050505@nut-n-but.net> References: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net> <46D03FD0.5050405@nut-n-but.net> <46D1C1A2.2050505@nut-n-but.net> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0708311114o75e1348an1f4242b0e393fec6@mail.gmail.com> How much for your book, Bob? Things are tight, but one must make room for poetry... :) c On 8/26/07, Bob Grumman wrote: > > Two free (randomly-chosen unless you specify which two you want other than > ones priced at over $5) Runaway Spoon Chapbooks with every order of my From > Haiku To Lyriku!! > > Wow, Bob > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > -- Chris Lott From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 31 16:37:19 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:37:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Special on My Book In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0708311114o75e1348an1f4242b0e393fec6@mail.gmail.com> References: <46CF97D2.6050602@nut-n-but.net> <46D03FD0.5050405@nut-n-but.net><46D1C1A2.2050505@nut-n-but.net> <9b1b9dab0708311114o75e1348an1f4242b0e393fec6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D87BFF.6000801@nut-n-but.net> Chris Lott wrote: > How much for your book, Bob? Things are tight, but one must make room > for poetry... :) > > c > Thanks for asking, Chris. It has forty-seven pages on "tundra," so > I'm sure you'll like it! It's an outrageous $20, postpaid--BUT I'll include two (or more) previously published Runaway Spoon Press chaps with each order! Thanks for asking--Bob From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 31 18:18:23 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:18:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's plans Message-ID: Poetry proves again and again that any single overall theory of anything doesn't work. Poetry is always the cat concert under the window of the room in which the official version of reality is being written. ~Charles Simic ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 31 18:21:58 2007 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:21:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Errata Message-ID: Errata Where it says snow read teeth-marks of a virgin Where it says knife read you passed through my bones like a police-whistle Where it says table read horse Where it says horse read my migrant's bundle Apples are to remain apples Each time a hat appears think of Isaac Newton reading the Old Testament Remove all periods They are scars made by words I couldn't bring myself to say Put a finger over each sunrise it will blind you otherwise That damn ant is still stirring Will there be time left to list all errors to replace all hands guns owls plates all cigars ponds woods and reach that beer-bottle my greatest mistake the word I allowed to be written when I should have shouted her name --Charles Simic ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 31 18:32:51 2007 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:32:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Errata Message-ID: I like Simic's poetry and wish him well, but I think he's more of a "poets' poet" than Hall or Kooser. Chances of his being able to connect with a general readership seem pretty slim. Not, to paraphrase Seinfeld, that there's anything right about that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 31 21:37:38 2007 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:37:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Simic's plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D8C262.3060204@nut-n-but.net> JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Poetry proves again and again that any single overall theory of > anything doesn't work. Poetry is always the cat concert under the > window of the room in which the official version of reality is being > written. > ~Charles Simic In which case he's going to expose the American Public to more than Wilshberia? Right. Just because some estabnik says he doesn't believe in an officially certified kind (or theory) of poetry doesn't mean that he doesn't believe in exactly that--though his provincialism prevents him from realizing it. Bob G. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com > . > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: