From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 1 12:55:29 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:55:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine's prosody Message-ID: <503.31ba8292.32514d01@aol.com> You Can Have It My brother comes home from work and climbs the stairs to out room. I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop one by one. You can have it, he says. The moonlight streams in the window and his unshaven face is whitened like the face of the moon. He will sleep long after noon and waken to find me gone. Thirty years will pass before I remember that moment when suddenly I knew each man has one brother who dies when he sleeps and sleeps when he rises to face this life, and that together they are only one man sharing a heart that always labors, hands yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it? All night at the ice plant he had fed the chute its silvery blocks, and then I stacked cases of orange soda for the children of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time with always two more waiting. We were twenty for such a short time and always in the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt and sweat. I think now we were never twenty. In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died, no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace, for there was no such year, and now that year has fallen off all the old newspapers, calendars, doctors' appointments, bonds wedding certificates, drivers licenses. The city slept. The snow turned to ice. The ice to standing pools or rivers racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose between the thousands of cracked squares, and that grass died. I give you back 1948. I give you all the years from then to the coming one. Give me back the moon with its frail light falling across a face. Give me back my young brother, hard and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse for God and burning eyes that look upon all creation and say, You can have it. Philip Levine fr. _7 Years From Somewhere_, 1979. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Sun Oct 1 16:28:20 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 16:28:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1 Message-ID: <499.af6c8a2.32517ee4@aol.com> In a message dated 10/1/2006 9:08:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: My problem with it is that it's by someone trying to give us Sage Advice rather than poetry, which can be so much more than Sage Advice. --Bob G. My problem is they failed at sage advice which can be so much more than ?art for art sake? poetry. --Kaz M. http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blacksox at att.net Sun Oct 1 17:08:34 2006 From: blacksox at att.net (blacksox at att.net) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:08:34 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Orlando Florida Reading Message-ID: <100120062108.19245.45202E5200082D0D00004B2D216037631698019C050C0E040D@att.net> POETIC MEETUP Orlando Poetry Group presents: Every Third Tuesday At: Dandelions Tuesday October 17, 2006 7:00pm Dandelion Communitea Urban teahouse cafe 618 N. Thornton Ave-Orlando FL An Intimate Open Reading Followed by Di-verse-worD at 9pm EVERYONE is welcome HOSTED BY Russ Golata For directions or comments e-mail me at blacksox at att.net Or phone me at 407-403-5814 Or Dandelions at 407-362-1864 WWW.DANDELIONSCOMMUNITEA.COM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 17:28:47 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 17:28:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 10, Fall 2006, Now Online! Message-ID: ********************************************************** Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 10, Fall 2006, Now Online! Featuring fiction by Brian E. Langston, Stephanie Bachula, Hugh Fox, Denise Mann, Ken Champion, and Wayne Scheer; and poetry by Jeanpaul Ferro, Peter Munro, Hugh Fox, Sandy McIntosh, Scott Keeney, Crag Hill, Roy Frisvold, Glenn Bach, John M. Bennett, Joel Solonche, and Jan Clausen. http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr10.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- Submissions to Hamilton Stone Review Hamilton Stone Review invites submissions of both poetry and fiction for Issue #11, which will be out in February 2007. Poetry submissions should go, only by email, directly to Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net. Send fiction submissions, only by email, to Lynda Schor at lyndaschor at earthlink.net. Deadline: Jan. 1, 2007. Be sure to include HSR11 and your name in the subject line of your submission. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Hamilton Stone Review is produced by Hamilton Stone Editions. http://www.hamiltonstone.org/ PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS ********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 1 18:37:12 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 18:37:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Voices in Denial: Poetry and Post-Culture Message-ID: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Evans%20essay.htm Voices in Denial: Poetry and Post-Culture by A. C. Evans This essay aims to argue two points: first, that British poetry during the 1960s missed an opportunity, suggested to it by other art forms, to positively engage with mass popular culture and second, that the denial of the ? authorial voice? in poetry, due to the influence of various Postmodernist literary theories, should be challenged and rejected. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 1 20:54:52 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 20:54:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1 References: <499.af6c8a2.32517ee4@aol.com> Message-ID: <008d01c6e5bd$65da68f0$68b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> My problem with it is that it's by someone trying to give us Sage Advice rather than poetry, which can be so much more than Sage Advice. --Bob G. My problem is they failed at sage advice which can be so much more than ?art for art sake? poetry. --Kaz M. Ah, but what can the best Sage Advice get you to that's better than aesthetic pleasure, which is the aim of art for art sake art, Kaz? --Bob Art-For-Art's-Sake Grumman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Sun Oct 1 20:59:48 2006 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 19:59:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Valparaiso Poetry Review: Fall/Winter 2006-2007 Issue In-Reply-To: <008d01c6e5bd$65da68f0$68b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <1159750788-14104.00018.03816-smmsdV2.1.6@mailhub.valpo.edu> Announcement: Publication of the Fall/Winter 2006-2007 issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review The Fall/Winter 2006-2007 issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now available at the following url: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ *Fall/Winter 2006-2007 Issue Contents* Featured Poet: Mark Conway Additional Poets: Rane Arroyo, Sarah Brownsberger, Nick Bruno, E.G. Burrows, Jared Carter, Heidi Czerwiec, Jeanine DeRusha, Taylor Graham, Carol Hamilton, Jason Huskey, Elizabeth Kirschner, Jeff Knorr, Frannie Lindsay, Richard O'Connell, Thomas Reynolds, Helen Ruggieri, Jordan Sanderson, J.D. Schraffenberger, Beth Simon, Lynn Strongin, Scott Welvaert Essays: Laura Ebberson on Elizabeth Bishop, Claire Keyes on Marianne Boruch Poets Reviewed: Mark Conway, Robert Crawford, Claudia Emerson, Lance Larsen, Judith Montgomery, Vivian Shipley Cover Art Commentary: Gregg Hertzlieb on Dean Porter As always, the new issue includes a list of recently received and recommended books of poetry or poetics, as well as guidelines for submissions. All past issues of VPR and a complete archive of poems, essays, interviews, reviews, and commentary on art remain available for reading. -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 1 22:11:44 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:11:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] For those in CT or nearby, Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash, Saturday October 7th Message-ID: 11th Annual ?Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash? Saturday October 7th, 2006, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford, CT Featured Speaker: Lawrence Joseph, ?The Poet and the Lawyer: The Example of Wallace Stevens? Lawrence Joseph was born in Detroit in 1948. He attended the University of Michigan, where he received the Hopwood Award for poetry; Magdalene College, Cambridge University, where he read English; and the University of Michigan Law School. He is the author of five books of poems, including Into It (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2005) and Codes, Precepts, Biases, and Taboos: Poems 1973-1993 (FSG, 2005). He is also the author of Lawyerland (FSG, 1997), a book of prose, which is being developed into a film by John Malkovich. His poems, essays and critical writings have appeared widely in publications in the United States and internationally. He has received two NEA poetry fellowships, a Guggenheim fellowship, and is the third recipient of the New York County Lawyers Association's "Law and Literature Award." A distinguished scholar in labor and employment law, tort and compensation law, and legal theory, he is the Tinnelly Professor of Law at St. John's University School of Law. Married to the painter Nancy Van Goethem, he lives in downtown Manhattan. Followed by a special panel of Connecticut lawyers and other experts: Richard S. Kay is the Wallace Stevens Professor of Law at the University of Connecticut. He has a special interest in matters of interpretation and in the role of law in organizing human experience ? both matters on which he finds Wallace Stevens to be of particular relevance. Henry F. Murray is a union-side labor lawyer at the firm of Livingston, Adler, Pulda, Meiklejohn & Kelly in Hartford. Hank is a member of the HFEWS Board of Directors, he has taught as an adjunct professor at the UConn Law School, and is the author of The Poetic Imagination of Karl Llewellyn, 29 Univ. of Toledo Law Review 27 (Fall 1997) Kerry Driscoll is a professor of English at Saint Joseph College in West Hartford. In addition to being a fan of Wallace Stevens, Professor Driscoll has written extensively on William Carlos Williams, a contemporary of Stevens, and she is currently completing a book on Mark Twain (that ?other? Hartford writer...). Reception with light hors d?ouevres begins at 6:30 P.M. After Program: Birthday Cake and Champagne! Tickets: $30 per person; send check payable to: Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT 06103. Or call to reserve tickets at the door: 860-695-6360. For more info, please contact Jim Finnegan, _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) Presented by The Friends and Enemies of Wallace Stevens and the Connecticut Center for the Book, a program of the Hartford Public Library. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 1 22:36:09 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:36:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry's own James Frey: the 'Dusty' poems Message-ID: _http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6173681_ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6173681) Celebrated Military Nurse, Poet Revealed as a Fraud by Diantha Parker All Things Considered, September 30, 2006 ? Dana Shuster was a celebrated Vietnam war-era military nurse who wrote poetry about her experiences. One of her poems was read by Vice President Al Gore when the Vietnam Women's Memorial was dedicated in 1993. But it turns out she was never a nurse, never in the military and never in Vietnam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 00:22:20 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 20:22:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] M(opes) F(arting) A(round) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0610012122u21eaf7f5u1b790b0f7093a40b@mail.gmail.com> There's nothing wrong with writing like Carver if you ARE Carver. And he never got an MFA anyway, so ppfffftthui. c From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 00:26:22 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 20:26:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: MFA woes In-Reply-To: References: <001001c6e2a8$ee53f2e0$86b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0610012126t39d52fb8oef9fd146dbd8ac47@mail.gmail.com> On 9/27/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > judging by their poetry, I would think those classes would suck. If there's anything approaching a truism in this discussion it would be that an author's type and quality of poetic output has no correlation with their abilities as a teacher. There's the odd exception, of course, but most stories of learning in a classroom from one's idols are stories of disappointment and heartbreak. c From cstroffo at earthlink.net Mon Oct 2 00:28:21 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 21:28:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] M(opes) F(arting) A(round) In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0610012122u21eaf7f5u1b790b0f7093a40b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0610012122u21eaf7f5u1b790b0f7093a40b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: or lish On Oct 1, 2006, at 9:22 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > There's nothing wrong with writing like Carver if you ARE Carver. And > he never got an MFA anyway, so ppfffftthui. > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From AlMaginnes at aol.com Mon Oct 2 06:34:59 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 06:34:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: MFA woes Message-ID: It might be better that strudying with one's idols often does involve disappointment. Might push you out the door toward your own path a bit sooner. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 2 07:03:13 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:03:13 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: MFA References: Message-ID: <004901c6e612$5b0e9540$e6a93452@ANNY> As I said some time ago I don't think there is anything strange in wanting to study. What I find strange is that on a New Poetry list so many people express negative statements against those who are committed in an MFA in poetry. I would even support people studying engineering, or medicine or mathematics or physics, and before saying that they are not poets I would read their poetry. This seems so wise to me. Don't tell me that I am approaching wisdom. Just like that. From: AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:34 PM It might be better that strudying with one's idols often does involve disappointment. Might push you out the door toward your own path a bit sooner. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 2 08:40:18 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:40:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bed(s) Contest! Message-ID: <005601c6e61f$ebd41fc0$e6a93452@ANNY> Tom Beckett just told me that I am the winner with two other ladies of his Bed Contest! Thrilled as I am, please see here my (and the other two ladies') submission, thanks, :-) http://voice-noise.blogspot.com/2006/10/beds-contest-results.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 09:25:19 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 06:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Neomodernism on Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20061002132519.34475.qmail@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Neo-modernism in the novellas of Debra Di Blasi John Ashbery reading in a coffee house in Providence R.I. A Flarf fest in Carlisle, PA The poetics of Minton Sparks Southern story teller The songs of Dave Carter (and the singer/songwriter tradition) The enigmatic poetics of Beverly Dahlen On poetry in Iran and Nigeria Who needs to read? Eileen Tabios channels Gabriela Silang Translating translation in the Mauve Desert by Nicole Brossard Lots of frosting on very little cake ??? Aaron Sorkin and Studio 60 Context as a material of art in the work of Hai Bo, Yoko Ono et al in the galleries of New York Questioning Steve Benson Why is Lisa Robertson the most read poet in the annual Attention Span survey once again? Stephanie Young???s breakthrough book Telling the Future Off Squandering the American century (notes on 9/11 five years on) Fanny Howe???s war on terror http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 10:14:10 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 07:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: MFA In-Reply-To: <004901c6e612$5b0e9540$e6a93452@ANNY> Message-ID: I don't think that there is anything wrong with studying poetry and in fact I don't think it's possible to write well without studying poetry, even if one is not studying poetry. MY objection, and i don't want to speak for anyone else, is to the *way* that poetry is studied in an MFA program, with a heavy focus on craft and workshopping, a secondary focus on certain aspects of whatever kind of critical theory piques the individuals attention, and more often than not, only a tertiary interest in surveying the field of poetry as it currently exists. I just think that one can do better as an autodidact because a.) workshops are a crapshoot at best and b.) if one really is interested in pursuing a post-graduate degree, pursuing specialized knowledge in another field is better for a writer than is spending many hours a week internalizing the poetic instincts of their peers, which may or may not be any better than the poets own instincts. What's that TS Eliot quote about how a poet reads spinoza? anyway, just wanted to clarify that my beef isn't with studying poetry, it's that i think there are better and worse ways of going about that. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > As I said some time ago I don't think there is anything strange in wanting to study. What I find strange is that on a New Poetry list so many people express negative statements against those who are committed in an MFA in poetry. > > I would even support people studying engineering, or medicine or mathematics or physics, and before saying that they are not poets I would read their poetry. > > This seems so wise to me. Don't tell me that I am approaching wisdom. Just like that. > > From: AlMaginnes at aol.com > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:34 PM > > > It might be better that strudying with one's idols often does involve disappointment. Might push you out the door toward your own path a bit sooner. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 2 10:16:52 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:16:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's the difference between a duck? Message-ID: Sharing a birthday today, the shades of Wallace Stevens and Groucho Marx. How perfect is that? Bantams in a Pine-Woods Chieftain Iffucan of Azcan in caftan Of tan with henna hackles, halt! Damned universal cock, as if the sun Was blackamoor to bear your blazing tail. Fat! Fat! Fat! Fat! I am the personal. Your world is you. I am my world. You ten-foot poet among inchlings. Fat! Begone! An inchling bristles in these pines, Bristles, and points their Appalachian tangs, And fears not portly Azcan nor his hoos. --Wallace Stevens ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bmarcacci at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 10:36:13 2006 From: bmarcacci at gmail.com (Bob Marcacci) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:36:13 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: idols... they're just as human as the rest of us... not me, i mean, but the rest of you... *coughs* seems there would be a natural let down with the expectations you bring to those situations... confrontations with your idols... my idols are basically people who work and struggle and continue to fight every day, starting with my parents, and extends outward from there... hard to knock someone who's working at it, that is, trying... the way poetry is studied in an MFA program? seems like profs can only teach it the way they do it... that's not a bad thing... sometimes, as with all things, the profs are dogging it and, more often then not, the students are, as well... speaking from experience... everyone has to bring something to the table... and, well, the main part about writing is doing it, which is something many nayers don't... it's natural that an emphasis would be on making it and/or learning how to make it... what's better for a writer? is there really anything bad? anyway, if you're not up in it, it's hard to really know what works or doesn't and even harder to change it... -- Bob Marcacci The mechanism of poetry is the same as that of hysterical phantasies. - Sigmund Freud > From: > Reply-To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 07:14:10 -0700 (PDT) > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: MFA > > I don't think that there is anything wrong with studying poetry and in fact I > don't think it's possible to write well without studying poetry, even if one > is not studying poetry. > > MY objection, and i don't want to speak for anyone else, is to the *way* that > poetry is studied in an MFA program, with a heavy focus on craft and > workshopping, a secondary focus on certain aspects of whatever kind of > critical theory piques the individuals attention, and more often than not, > only a tertiary interest in surveying the field of poetry as it currently > exists. I just think that one can do better as an autodidact because a.) > workshops are a crapshoot at best and b.) if one really is interested in > pursuing a post-graduate degree, pursuing specialized knowledge in another > field is better for a writer than is spending many hours a week internalizing > the poetic instincts of their peers, which may or may not be any better than > the poets own instincts. What's that TS Eliot quote about how a poet reads > spinoza? anyway, just wanted to clarify that my beef isn't with studying > poetry, it's that i think there are better and worse ways of going about that. > > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> >> As I said some time ago I don't think there is anything strange in wanting to >> study. What I find strange is that on a New Poetry list so many people >> express negative statements against those who are committed in an MFA in >> poetry. >> >> I would even support people studying engineering, or medicine or mathematics >> or physics, and before saying that they are not poets I would read their >> poetry. >> >> This seems so wise to me. Don't tell me that I am approaching wisdom. Just >> like that. >> >> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com >> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:34 PM >> >> >> It might be better that strudying with one's idols often does involve >> disappointment. Might push you out the door toward your own path a bit >> sooner. >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->> - >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 2 10:44:28 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 09:44:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the MFA can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many generalizations are suspect. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 2 10:55:16 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:55:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bed(s) Contest! References: <005601c6e61f$ebd41fc0$e6a93452@ANNY> Message-ID: <006901c6e632$c601d540$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> loved it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Bed(s) Contest! Tom Beckett just told me that I am the winner with two other ladies of his Bed Contest! Thrilled as I am, please see here my (and the other two ladies') submission, thanks, :-) http://voice-noise.blogspot.com/2006/10/beds-contest-results.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 11:00:50 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is true, however, generally speaking, most reputable MFA programs are full residency graduate courses that take two to three years and involve workshops wherein a group of writers with baccalaureate degrees sit around and critique eachothers work under the guidance of a more experienced instructor. such instructors are generally MFA's themselves and teach as a sideline to their own writing which is more often than not read by a very small audience even compared to the rather pathetic numbers of most literary fiction bestsellers. When I'm making generalizations about MFAs, that typical program, workshop, and instructor is what I'm talking about. The need to make generalizations comes about because I find that when I'm reading a poem in a new poetry magazine by a writer who I am unfamiliar with, about two thirds of the time I can tell if that writer has an MFA before reading his or her bio. by which I mean, I often read a poem that has a certain MFAness about it, and maybe 3/4s of the time when I get that feeling the writer has an MFA. Of course there are times when a writer without an MFA writes a poem with a sense of MFAness, and there are times when a writer with an MFA writes without MFAness, but the correlation is too strong for me to ignore. So I tried to look at what was typical of MFA programss that would give rise to MFAness (which, I should say, I dislike quite a bit), and what I came up with were the criticisms of the way poetry is studied in MFA programs below. I don't know how those factors correlate to MFAness, nor am I really able to isolate the qualities that give a poem its MFAness. Like obscenity, I know it when I see it, and it has thus far eluded all my attempts to quantify it. That having been said, I think there are other ways of studying poetry. I am a proud autodidact. Others I know that I think came at poetry from an interesting place in their study of it studied comp lit, english lit, or linguistics. Some do Bachelors of English with a focus on creative writing and stop there, and I know a few people who've done that and been successful in avoiding MFAness in their writing. Others get involved in the local performance poetry scenes or theater, and get their education through a growing oral tradition around those groups. Some of those options are also open to MFA's, and I know a few MFA writers who balance their graduate work with other forms of poetry study who seem to avoid the MFAness poison. Which really i think is something that all poets should want. Is all I'm saying. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: > > Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the MFA > can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a > correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many generalizations > are suspect. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 11:00:49 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is true, however, generally speaking, most reputable MFA programs are full residency graduate courses that take two to three years and involve workshops wherein a group of writers with baccalaureate degrees sit around and critique eachothers work under the guidance of a more experienced instructor. such instructors are generally MFA's themselves and teach as a sideline to their own writing which is more often than not read by a very small audience even compared to the rather pathetic numbers of most literary fiction bestsellers. When I'm making generalizations about MFAs, that typical program, workshop, and instructor is what I'm talking about. The need to make generalizations comes about because I find that when I'm reading a poem in a new poetry magazine by a writer who I am unfamiliar with, about two thirds of the time I can tell if that writer has an MFA before reading his or her bio. by which I mean, I often read a poem that has a certain MFAness about it, and maybe 3/4s of the time when I get that feeling the writer has an MFA. Of course there are times when a writer without an MFA writes a poem with a sense of MFAness, and there are times when a writer with an MFA writes without MFAness, but the correlation is too strong for me to ignore. So I tried to look at what was typical of MFA programss that would give rise to MFAness (which, I should say, I dislike quite a bit), and what I came up with were the criticisms of the way poetry is studied in MFA programs below. I don't know how those factors correlate to MFAness, nor am I really able to isolate the qualities that give a poem its MFAness. Like obscenity, I know it when I see it, and it has thus far eluded all my attempts to quantify it. That having been said, I think there are other ways of studying poetry. I am a proud autodidact. Others I know that I think came at poetry from an interesting place in their study of it studied comp lit, english lit, or linguistics. Some do Bachelors of English with a focus on creative writing and stop there, and I know a few people who've done that and been successful in avoiding MFAness in their writing. Others get involved in the local performance poetry scenes or theater, and get their education through a growing oral tradition around those groups. Some of those options are also open to MFA's, and I know a few MFA writers who balance their graduate work with other forms of poetry study who seem to avoid the MFAness poison. Which really i think is something that all poets should want. Is all I'm saying. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: > > Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the MFA > can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a > correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many generalizations > are suspect. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 11:00:50 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is true, however, generally speaking, most reputable MFA programs are full residency graduate courses that take two to three years and involve workshops wherein a group of writers with baccalaureate degrees sit around and critique eachothers work under the guidance of a more experienced instructor. such instructors are generally MFA's themselves and teach as a sideline to their own writing which is more often than not read by a very small audience even compared to the rather pathetic numbers of most literary fiction bestsellers. When I'm making generalizations about MFAs, that typical program, workshop, and instructor is what I'm talking about. The need to make generalizations comes about because I find that when I'm reading a poem in a new poetry magazine by a writer who I am unfamiliar with, about two thirds of the time I can tell if that writer has an MFA before reading his or her bio. by which I mean, I often read a poem that has a certain MFAness about it, and maybe 3/4s of the time when I get that feeling the writer has an MFA. Of course there are times when a writer without an MFA writes a poem with a sense of MFAness, and there are times when a writer with an MFA writes without MFAness, but the correlation is too strong for me to ignore. So I tried to look at what was typical of MFA programss that would give rise to MFAness (which, I should say, I dislike quite a bit), and what I came up with were the criticisms of the way poetry is studied in MFA programs below. I don't know how those factors correlate to MFAness, nor am I really able to isolate the qualities that give a poem its MFAness. Like obscenity, I know it when I see it, and it has thus far eluded all my attempts to quantify it. That having been said, I think there are other ways of studying poetry. I am a proud autodidact. Others I know that I think came at poetry from an interesting place in their study of it studied comp lit, english lit, or linguistics. Some do Bachelors of English with a focus on creative writing and stop there, and I know a few people who've done that and been successful in avoiding MFAness in their writing. Others get involved in the local performance poetry scenes or theater, and get their education through a growing oral tradition around those groups. Some of those options are also open to MFA's, and I know a few MFA writers who balance their graduate work with other forms of poetry study who seem to avoid the MFAness poison. Which really i think is something that all poets should want. Is all I'm saying. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: > > Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the MFA > can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a > correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many generalizations > are suspect. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 2 11:03:01 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:03:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What's the difference between a duck? References: Message-ID: <008a01c6e633$dae15980$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET THE INTERIOR PARAMOUR "Disregard previous message" was the first communiqu? they sent us, followed by a fax that came while we were out: "Don't expect a full report. It's not your job to monitor her; It's enough you trust she is being watched, that we know who she is." The next we knew, they had moved into the apartment above her. "She loves her room," they wrote us. "She gets board with it." Soon after, they had drilled a peephole through her ceiling, and we heard about fluffy pubic hair, flame blonde, with the texture of Rubens. Then, nothing, for several weeks. The secured telephone brooded. The air grew damp around it. Blotches appeared on the nightstand, and mildewed. Reconnaissance, the next dispatch said, and we set about it. We found the room empty, the beds stripped, dust patterns inconclusive but concentric around a hole in the floor. Lying flat on our stomachs and taking turns, we observed the following: The room was perfect -- there wasn't a flaw in it; but from the dark corners, an order came squeezing inward, gathering moisture and cool air, compressing them into a single thing, wrapped in a shawl and rocking, rocking, breathing, breathing, sending up bubbles toward the light. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: "NewPoetry" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] What's the difference between a duck? > Sharing a birthday today, the shades of Wallace Stevens and Groucho Marx. > How perfect is that? > > > Bantams in a Pine-Woods > > Chieftain Iffucan of Azcan in caftan > Of tan with henna hackles, halt! > > Damned universal cock, as if the sun > Was blackamoor to bear your blazing tail. > > Fat! Fat! Fat! Fat! I am the personal. > Your world is you. I am my world. > > You ten-foot poet among inchlings. Fat! > Begone! An inchling bristles in these pines, > > Bristles, and points their Appalachian tangs, > And fears not portly Azcan nor his hoos. > > --Wallace Stevens > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 2 11:06:21 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:06:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA References: Message-ID: <00a101c6e634$523f5d10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I guess I'm one of those lucky few who studied with people who became my idols, one in an MFA program and the other as an undergraduate. The closest I came to studying with a pre-existing idol was Philip Roth, and that was a positive experience too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: "NewPoetry" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA > > Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the > MFA > can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a > correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many generalizations > are suspect. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 2 11:17:16 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:17:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <00a101c6e634$523f5d10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: And I guess I'm also one of the lucky--I won't say "few," because I don't see much evidence of its accuracy--who studied in a program that doesn't resemble the cartoons we typically see presented. As I've said, I think my MFA program, as it was constituted 25-30 years ago at least, could have been improved in a number of ways. I still value the experience and am not sorry I attended. For what it's worth, having attended many AWP annual conferences and participated in the Pedagogy Forums presented there, I suspect that the teaching of creative writing is generally a lot better than it was when I went through the MFA. Of course, the majority of creative writing instruction in this country occurs outside of MFA programs; and even within the MFA realm, the highest profile programs may not be typical. On 10/2/06 10:06 AM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > I guess I'm one of those lucky few who studied with people who became my > idols, one in an MFA program and the other as an undergraduate. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 11:21:19 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 07:21:19 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0610020821ge307eadtb2598f7c736e52f@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my superiority..] > Is all I'm saying. Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between 8-12 to build poetic mass... c From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 2 11:25:36 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 10:25:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0610020821ge307eadtb2598f7c736e52f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Workshop I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. It gets me right away because I'm in a workshop now so immediately the poem has my attention, like the ancient mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. And I like the first couple of stanzas, the way they establish this mode of self-pointing that runs through the whole poem and tells us that words are food thrown down on the ground for other words to eat. I can almost taste the tail of the snake in its own mouth, if you know what I mean. But what I'm not sure about is the voice which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, but other times seems standoffish, professorial in the worst sense of the word like the poem is blowing smoke in my face. But maybe that's just what it wants to do. What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, especially the fourth one. I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges which gives me a very clear picture. And I really like how this drawbridge operator just appears out of the blue with his feet up on the iron railing and his fishing pole jigging ? I like jigging ? a hook in the slow industrial canal below. I love slow industrial canal below. All those l's. Maybe it's just me, but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? And what is an obbligato of snow? Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. At this point I'm lost. I need help. The other thing that throws me off, and maybe this is just me, is the way the scene keeps shifting around. First, we're in this big aerodrome and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, which makes me think this could be a dream. Then he takes us into his garden, the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, though that's nice, the coiling hose, but then I'm not sure where we're supposed to be. The rain and the mint green light, that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? There's something about death going on here. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if what we have here is really two poems, or three, or four, or possibly none. But then there's that last stanza, my favorite. This is where the poem wins me back, especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. I mean we've all seen these images in cartoons before, but I still love the details he uses when he's describing where he lives. The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, the spool of thread for a table. I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work night after night collecting all these things while the people in the house were fast asleep, and that gives me a very strong feeling, a very powerful sense of something. But I don't know if anyone else was feeling that. Maybe that was just me. Maybe that's just the way I read it. Billy Collins The Art of Drowning University of Pittsburgh Press ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 12:45:46 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0610020821ge307eadtb2598f7c736e52f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't think I HAVE made it clear enough. Which is why I responded to Anny's comment, because she seemed to have misunderstood me. Since she's a smart person, I take that to be a failing on my part to have explained clearly that it wasn't studying poetry that I was being critical of, but rather a certain way of studying poetry. What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war again by flaming me like this? On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Chris Lott wrote: > On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my superiority..] >> Is all I'm saying. > > Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? > > You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was > going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. > Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between > 8-12 to build poetic mass... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From almaginnes at aol.com Mon Oct 2 12:50:31 2006 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:50:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C8B45A0191DEC4-BE8-1296@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> What's curious to me, and I doubt I'm hte only one, is why you insist on having a "flame war" with anyone who's critical of your way of seeing thigns. Surely you've read enough of the posts here to see that this isn't really that kind of forum. Al -----Original Message----- From: jfq at myuw.net Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE I don't think I HAVE made it clear enough. Which is why I responded to Anny's comment, because she seemed to have misunderstood me. Since she's a smart person, I take that to be a failing on my part to have explained clearly that it wasn't studying poetry that I was being critical of, but rather a certain way of studying poetry. What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war again by flaming me like this? On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Chris Lott wrote: > On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my superiority..] >> Is all I'm saying. > > Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? > > You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was > going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. > Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between > 8-12 to build poetic mass... > > c > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 12:51:22 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I generally really hate Billy Collins, but this poem does make me smile and isn't terrible. I remember the first time I read it and was thinking as I'd almost finished it "Wow, has Billy Collins really made it all the way through a poem without some sort of invocation of a small animal of some kind?" And then I read the bit about the mouses voice, and i laughed out loud. It also makes me think of Charles Bukowski's poem "Creative Writing Class." I'm sure there's fruitful comparison to be made between the two poems, but I don't have Last Night of the Earth Poems here, so I'll leave it at that. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: > > Workshop > > I might as well begin by saying how much I like the title. > It gets me right away because I'm in a workshop now > so immediately the poem has my attention, > like the ancient mariner grabbing me by the sleeve. > > And I like the first couple of stanzas, > the way they establish this mode of self-pointing > that runs through the whole poem > and tells us that words are food thrown down > on the ground for other words to eat. > I can almost taste the tail of the snake > in its own mouth, > if you know what I mean. > > But what I'm not sure about is the voice > which sounds in places very casual, very blue jeans, > but other times seems standoffish, > professorial in the worst sense of the word > like the poem is blowing smoke in my face. > But maybe that's just what it wants to do. > > What I did find engaging were the middle stanzas, > especially the fourth one. > I like the image of clouds flying like lozenges > which gives me a very clear picture. > And I really like how this drawbridge operator > just appears out of the blue > with his feet up on the iron railing > and his fishing pole jigging ? I like jigging ? > a hook in the slow industrial canal below. > I love slow industrial canal below. All those l's. > > Maybe it's just me, > but the next stanza is where I start to have a problem. > I mean how can the evening bump into the stars? > And what is an obbligato of snow? > Also, I roam the decaffeinated streets. > At this point I'm lost. I need help. > > The other thing that throws me off, > and maybe this is just me, > is the way the scene keeps shifting around. > First, we're in this big aerodrome > and the speaker is inspecting a row of dirigibles, > which makes me think this could be a dream. > Then he takes us into his garden, > the part with the dahlias and the coiling hose, > though that's nice, the coiling hose, > but then I'm not sure where we're supposed to be. > The rain and the mint green light, > that makes it feel outdoors, but what about this wallpaper? > Or is it a kind of indoor cemetery? > There's something about death going on here. > > In fact, I'm starting to wonder if what we have here > is really two poems, or three, or four, > or possibly none. > > But then there's that last stanza, my favorite. > This is where the poem wins me back, > especially the lines spoken in the voice of the mouse. > I mean we've all seen these images in cartoons before, > but I still love the details he uses > when he's describing where he lives. > The perfect little arch of an entrance in the baseboard, > the bed made out of a curled-back sardine can, > the spool of thread for a table. > I start thinking about how hard the mouse had to work > night after night collecting all these things > while the people in the house were fast asleep, > and that gives me a very strong feeling, > a very powerful sense of something. > But I don't know if anyone else was feeling that. > Maybe that was just me. > Maybe that's just the way I read it. > > Billy Collins > The Art of Drowning > University of Pittsburgh Press > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 12:54:15 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <8C8B45A0191DEC4-BE8-1296@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm not interested in having a flame war with anyone. But I'd dispute your claim that this isn't that kind of forum given that people like you and Chris Lott keep flaming me without provocation. You'll note that I'm not flaming back this time because I've had my quota of that sort of thing for a little while. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > What's curious to me, and I doubt I'm hte only one, is why you insist on having a "flame war" with anyone who's critical of your way of seeing thigns. Surely you've read enough of the posts here to see that this isn't really that kind of forum. > > Al > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jfq at myuw.net > Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA > > > X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE > I don't think I HAVE made it clear enough. Which is why I responded to Anny's comment, because she seemed to have misunderstood me. Since she's a smart person, I take that to be a failing on my part to have explained clearly that it wasn't studying poetry that I was being critical of, but rather a certain way of studying poetry. > > What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war again by flaming me like this? > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Chris Lott wrote: > >> On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my superiority..] >>> Is all I'm saying. >> >> Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? >> >> You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was >> going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. >> Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between >> 8-12 to build poetic mass... >> >> c >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 2 13:12:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:12:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA References: Message-ID: <000b01c6e645$ea816bc0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Remember back in the 1960s, when Charles Mingus, a great artist of extraordinary musical sensitivity, said something very similar about how he could always tell, by listening, whether a musician was black or white? Leonard Feather gave him a blindfold test, and Mingus failed it. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA > This is true, however, generally speaking, most reputable MFA programs are > full residency graduate courses that take two to three years and involve > workshops wherein a group of writers with baccalaureate degrees sit around > and critique eachothers work under the guidance of a more experienced > instructor. such instructors are generally MFA's themselves and teach as a > sideline to their own writing which is more often than not read by a very > small audience even compared to the rather pathetic numbers of most > literary fiction bestsellers. > > When I'm making generalizations about MFAs, that typical program, > workshop, and instructor is what I'm talking about. > > The need to make generalizations comes about because I find that when I'm > reading a poem in a new poetry magazine by a writer who I am unfamiliar > with, about two thirds of the time I can tell if that writer has an MFA > before reading his or her bio. by which I mean, I often read a poem that > has a certain MFAness about it, and maybe 3/4s of the time when I get that > feeling the writer has an MFA. Of course there are times when a writer > without an MFA writes a poem with a sense of MFAness, and there are times > when a writer with an MFA writes without MFAness, but the correlation is > too strong for me to ignore. So I tried to look at what was typical of MFA > programss that would give rise to MFAness (which, I should say, I dislike > quite a bit), and what I came up with were the criticisms of the way > poetry is studied in MFA programs below. I don't know how those factors > correlate to MFAness, nor am I really able to isolate the qualities that > give a poem its MFAness. Like obscenity, I know it when I see it, and it > has thus far eluded all my attempts to quantify it. > > That having been said, I think there are other ways of studying poetry. I > am a proud autodidact. Others I know that I think came at poetry from an > interesting place in their study of it studied comp lit, english lit, or > linguistics. Some do Bachelors of English with a focus on creative writing > and stop there, and I know a few people who've done that and been > successful in avoiding MFAness in their writing. Others get involved in > the local performance poetry scenes or theater, and get their education > through a growing oral tradition around those groups. Some of those > options are also open to MFA's, and I know a few MFA writers who balance > their graduate work with other forms of poetry study who seem to avoid the > MFAness poison. Which really i think is something that all poets should > want. > > Is all I'm saying. > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: > >> >> Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the >> MFA >> can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a >> correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many >> generalizations >> are suspect. >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ==================================================== >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 2 13:16:10 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:16:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA References: Message-ID: <014501c6e646$74da7190$e6a93452@ANNY> I didn't want to start any fights, sorry, indeed. Let's just leave it there. Please. And I was not specifically referring to your mail, either. (I had problems with the net when people were talking about this topic and I kept on receiving mails...) My mail was meant to be a broad consideration. We are all here because we like reading. Thus studying should be the strawberry on whipped cream, as they say in Italy. Especially if we are speaking of an MFA in poetry... Maybe I should have said something like this. From: Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:45 PM >I don't think I HAVE made it clear enough. Which is why I responded to Anny's comment, because she seemed to have misunderstood me. Since she's a smart person, I take that to be a failing on my part to have explained clearly that it wasn't studying poetry that I was being critical of, but rather a certain way of studying poetry. > > What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war again by flaming me like this? > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Chris Lott wrote: > >> On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >> [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my superiority..] >>> Is all I'm saying. >> >> Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? >> >> You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was >> going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. >> Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between >> 8-12 to build poetic mass... >> >> c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 2 13:17:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:17:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA References: <000b01c6e645$ea816bc0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <014a01c6e646$a604a7e0$e6a93452@ANNY> We all think we know better, me the first - and several times... Anyhow this is a good one! From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:12 PM > Remember back in the 1960s, when Charles Mingus, a great artist of > extraordinary musical sensitivity, said something very similar about how > he could always tell, by listening, whether a musician was black or white? > Leonard Feather gave him a blindfold test, and Mingus failed it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA > > >> This is true, however, generally speaking, most reputable MFA programs >> are full residency graduate courses that take two to three years and >> involve workshops wherein a group of writers with baccalaureate degrees >> sit around and critique eachothers work under the guidance of a more >> experienced instructor. such instructors are generally MFA's themselves >> and teach as a sideline to their own writing which is more often than not >> read by a very small audience even compared to the rather pathetic >> numbers of most literary fiction bestsellers. >> >> When I'm making generalizations about MFAs, that typical program, >> workshop, and instructor is what I'm talking about. >> >> The need to make generalizations comes about because I find that when I'm >> reading a poem in a new poetry magazine by a writer who I am unfamiliar >> with, about two thirds of the time I can tell if that writer has an MFA >> before reading his or her bio. by which I mean, I often read a poem that >> has a certain MFAness about it, and maybe 3/4s of the time when I get >> that feeling the writer has an MFA. Of course there are times when a >> writer without an MFA writes a poem with a sense of MFAness, and there >> are times when a writer with an MFA writes without MFAness, but the >> correlation is too strong for me to ignore. So I tried to look at what >> was typical of MFA programss that would give rise to MFAness (which, I >> should say, I dislike quite a bit), and what I came up with were the >> criticisms of the way poetry is studied in MFA programs below. I don't >> know how those factors correlate to MFAness, nor am I really able to >> isolate the qualities that give a poem its MFAness. Like obscenity, I >> know it when I see it, and it has thus far eluded all my attempts to >> quantify it. >> >> That having been said, I think there are other ways of studying poetry. I >> am a proud autodidact. Others I know that I think came at poetry from an >> interesting place in their study of it studied comp lit, english lit, or >> linguistics. Some do Bachelors of English with a focus on creative >> writing and stop there, and I know a few people who've done that and been >> successful in avoiding MFAness in their writing. Others get involved in >> the local performance poetry scenes or theater, and get their education >> through a growing oral tradition around those groups. Some of those >> options are also open to MFA's, and I know a few MFA writers who balance >> their graduate work with other forms of poetry study who seem to avoid >> the MFAness poison. Which really i think is something that all poets >> should want. >> >> Is all I'm saying. >> >> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: >> >>> >>> Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the >>> MFA >>> can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a >>> correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many >>> generalizations >>> are suspect. >>> >>> ==================================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>> ==================================================== From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 2 13:22:33 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:22:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] IGNATIUS T. MABASA Message-ID: <015c01c6e647$59581890$e6a93452@ANNY> Poetry Clink clink, clank clank! Culinary noise ain't cooking It may just be noise of pots 'n pans Knocking bottoms, flirting with spoons Poetry is not big words Poetry is not confusion, Mystification, chaos and noise. Poetry is not about ranting rage Like stock exchange bulls and bears Nor is it all about romance and roses. Poetry is not about neat, polite lines. Neither is it about rhythm and rhyme Idioms, proverbs and all their rude cousins. Poetry is an old man in dusty fields A scarecrow, talking to himself Poking the stunted rapoko crop And asking himself 'What happened to the land That the government redistributed? Was it all taken by the news-reader Because he got the news first?' Poetry is written over the wrinkles Of an old woman in a hospital ward Next to her dying daughter Who no longer talks, eats or blinks, Shitting herself without apology And the old woman thinks: 'Death never used to be so sophisticated!' Poetry is storytelling Only that it does not tell Of stories in a far, far away land Poetry is in the eyes of a broke policeman Who waves your car to stop at a roadblock And goes round and round your car Like a miserable mangy dog chasing its tail Looking for a fault to get a bribe from you For him to buy a loaf of bread for his kids. Poetry is speaking the unspoken. IGNATIUS T. MABASA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 13:36:26 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <000b01c6e645$ea816bc0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: Maybe you're right. I mean I'm completely open to the possibility that it's just confirmation bias having her wicked way with me. It's been on my list of things to do for some time to methodically test this impression and systematically see if I'm noticing something that's real or not, and then if I am seeing something real then see go from there to see if I can quantify MFAness a little more specifically. Unfortunately other things have taken priority and it's a pretty big research project. That having been said, even if it means I'm wrong, I'll take a comparison to Mingus anyway I can get it.;) On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, TheOldMole wrote: > Remember back in the 1960s, when Charles Mingus, a great artist of > extraordinary musical sensitivity, said something very similar about how he > could always tell, by listening, whether a musician was black or white? Leonard > Feather gave him a blindfold test, and Mingus failed it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] MFA > > >> This is true, however, generally speaking, most reputable MFA programs are >> full residency graduate courses that take two to three years and involve >> workshops wherein a group of writers with baccalaureate degrees sit around >> and critique eachothers work under the guidance of a more experienced >> instructor. such instructors are generally MFA's themselves and teach as a >> sideline to their own writing which is more often than not read by a very >> small audience even compared to the rather pathetic numbers of most literary >> fiction bestsellers. >> >> When I'm making generalizations about MFAs, that typical program, workshop, >> and instructor is what I'm talking about. >> >> The need to make generalizations comes about because I find that when I'm >> reading a poem in a new poetry magazine by a writer who I am unfamiliar >> with, about two thirds of the time I can tell if that writer has an MFA >> before reading his or her bio. by which I mean, I often read a poem that has >> a certain MFAness about it, and maybe 3/4s of the time when I get that >> feeling the writer has an MFA. Of course there are times when a writer >> without an MFA writes a poem with a sense of MFAness, and there are times >> when a writer with an MFA writes without MFAness, but the correlation is too >> strong for me to ignore. So I tried to look at what was typical of MFA >> programss that would give rise to MFAness (which, I should say, I dislike >> quite a bit), and what I came up with were the criticisms of the way poetry >> is studied in MFA programs below. I don't know how those factors correlate >> to MFAness, nor am I really able to isolate the qualities that give a poem >> its MFAness. Like obscenity, I know it when I see it, and it has thus far >> eluded all my attempts to quantify it. >> >> That having been said, I think there are other ways of studying poetry. I am >> a proud autodidact. Others I know that I think came at poetry from an >> interesting place in their study of it studied comp lit, english lit, or >> linguistics. Some do Bachelors of English with a focus on creative writing >> and stop there, and I know a few people who've done that and been successful >> in avoiding MFAness in their writing. Others get involved in the local >> performance poetry scenes or theater, and get their education through a >> growing oral tradition around those groups. Some of those options are also >> open to MFA's, and I know a few MFA writers who balance their graduate work >> with other forms of poetry study who seem to avoid the MFAness poison. Which >> really i think is something that all poets should want. >> >> Is all I'm saying. >> >> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, David Graham wrote: >> >>> >>> Not all MFA programs, instructors, or workshops are the same. Since the >>> MFA >>> can mean anything from a 3 year/60 credit hour experience to a >>> correspondence course with a few brief "residencies," many generalizations >>> are suspect. >>> >>> ==================================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>> ==================================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 2 13:45:00 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <014501c6e646$74da7190$e6a93452@ANNY> Message-ID: okay no fighting. thanks for asking nicely. :) incidentally I really like your analogy. i love idioms from other languages. particularly ones that have close translations in English. Do you know the expression "Cherry on top?" I think it means something similar, if I understand the Italian expression correctly. On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Anny Ballardini wrote: > I didn't want to start any fights, sorry, indeed. Let's just leave it there. Please. > And I was not specifically referring to your mail, either. (I had problems with the net when people were talking about this topic and I kept on receiving mails...) > > My mail was meant to be a broad consideration. We are all here because we like reading. Thus studying should be the strawberry on whipped cream, as they say in Italy. Especially if we are speaking of an MFA in poetry... > Maybe I should have said something like this. > > > From: > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:45 PM > > >> I don't think I HAVE made it clear enough. Which is why I responded to Anny's comment, because she seemed to have misunderstood me. Since she's a smart person, I take that to be a failing on my part to have explained clearly that it wasn't studying poetry that I was being critical of, but rather a certain way of studying poetry. >> >> What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war again by flaming me like this? >> >> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Chris Lott wrote: >> >>> On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >>> [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my superiority..] >>>> Is all I'm saying. >>> >>> Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? >>> >>> You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was >>> going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. >>> Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between >>> 8-12 to build poetic mass... >>> >>> c > From queenmouse at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 13:51:37 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:51:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: References: <8C8B45A0191DEC4-BE8-1296@MBLK-M18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > I'm not interested in having a flame war with anyone. But I'd dispute your > claim that this isn't that kind of forum given that people like you and > Chris Lott keep flaming me without provocation. You do seem awfully determined to have the absolute last word on everything said on this subject, and you do tend to interpret any disagreement or different viewpoint on this issue as a personal attack. People have the right to have differing viewpoints-- it is NOT about you at all. I really have to agree with what just about everyone else has said. Leave it. You have posted your views about MFAs about twenty-five times so far, and it is getting extremely repetitive. Nobody is soliciting your agreement with their differing viewpoints. Your response isn't advancing the discussion. I hope you can hear this without turning it into another long defensive argument. Suzanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 2 13:53:48 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 19:53:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA References: Message-ID: <017c01c6e64b$b735f460$e6a93452@ANNY> Yes, it was meant to be a cherry, I put a strawberry and sometimes I also add chocolate... :-) From: Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:45 PM > > okay no fighting. thanks for asking nicely. :) > > incidentally I really like your analogy. i love idioms from other > languages. particularly ones that have close translations in English. Do > you know the expression "Cherry on top?" I think it means something > similar, if I understand the Italian expression correctly. > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> I didn't want to start any fights, sorry, indeed. Let's just leave it >> there. Please. >> And I was not specifically referring to your mail, either. (I had >> problems with the net when people were talking about this topic and I >> kept on receiving mails...) >> >> My mail was meant to be a broad consideration. We are all here because we >> like reading. Thus studying should be the strawberry on whipped cream, as >> they say in Italy. Especially if we are speaking of an MFA in poetry... >> Maybe I should have said something like this. >> >> >> From: >> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:45 PM >> >> >>> I don't think I HAVE made it clear enough. Which is why I responded to >>> Anny's comment, because she seemed to have misunderstood me. Since she's >>> a smart person, I take that to be a failing on my part to have explained >>> clearly that it wasn't studying poetry that I was being critical of, but >>> rather a certain way of studying poetry. >>> >>> What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my >>> recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war >>> again by flaming me like this? >>> >>> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Chris Lott wrote: >>> >>>> On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: >>>> [bla bla .. MFA ... yada yada ... mfa-ness ... talk talk ... my >>>> superiority..] >>>>> Is all I'm saying. >>>> >>>> Great... could you perhaps stop saying it now? For a little while even? >>>> >>>> You've made your position very clear. If there was anyone here who was >>>> going to be convinced by your arguments, I'm sure they have been. >>>> Probably were after the 30th rep. You should keep those reps between >>>> 8-12 to build poetic mass... >>>> >>>> c >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 2 14:24:12 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:24:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Strawberry on whipped cream In-Reply-To: <014501c6e646$74da7190$e6a93452@ANNY> Message-ID: On 10/2/06 12:16 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Thus studying should be the strawberry on whipped cream, as they say in Italy. =================== Idiomatic It is a big question to pose so early in the morning or ?in the light woven by birds? as the Estonians say, but still I must ask what is my place in life? my ?seat on the invisible train?, as they say in Hungary. I mean I am just sitting here in a lawn chair listening to a thrush, ?the little entertainer of the woods?, as the Swiss call him, while out there in the world mobs of people are rushing over bridges in and out of cities? Vegetables grow heavy in their fields, clouds fly across the ?face of the earth? as we call it in English, and sometimes rockets lift off in the distance ? and I mean that quite literally, ?from the top of the table? as the Portuguese have it, real rockets rising from the horizon, or ?the big line if you?re an Australian, leaving behind rich gowns of exhaust smoke, long, smooth trajectories, and always the ocean below, ?the water machine? as the South Sea islanders put it ? everything takes place right on schedule, ?by the clock of the devil?, as our grandparents were fond of saying. And still here I sit with my shirt off, the dog at my side, daydreaming ? ?juggling balls of cotton?, as they like to say in France. --Billy Collins ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hawkbrwn at msn.com Mon Oct 2 18:37:08 2006 From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:37:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bed(s) Contest! In-Reply-To: <005601c6e61f$ebd41fc0$e6a93452@ANNY> Message-ID: Congrats! On 10/2/06 8:40 AM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Tom Beckett just told me that I am the winner with two other ladies of his Bed > Contest! Thrilled as I am, please see here my (and the other two ladies') > submission, thanks, :-) > > http://voice-noise.blogspot.com/2006/10/beds-contest-results.html > > > > > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 20:01:31 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:01:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: References: <9b1b9dab0610020821ge307eadtb2598f7c736e52f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0610021701g14ceb6d1q57549627eca77448@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > What's curious to me though, is why, if you've been so bothered by my recent posts to the list, you're so anxious to kick off the flame war again by flaming me like this? > I don't see what I have posted that can be construed as a flame. I noted that you have repeated yourself a LOT, that you have made very clear your feelings of superiority to those who have been in the dreaded MFA programs, and that it is highly unlikely that anyone is left here to be swayed by continuing to repeat your position again and again. In light of that, I asked if you would consider stopping the repetition for a while. If trying to convince people is your goal, of course. There are others. Like I said-- too many reps and you are into endurance rather than mass. I don't see that it helps anyone... c From chris.lott at gmail.com Mon Oct 2 20:02:23 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:02:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0610021701g14ceb6d1q57549627eca77448@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0610020821ge307eadtb2598f7c736e52f@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0610021701g14ceb6d1q57549627eca77448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0610021702h192300cch8b6722f392ee8132@mail.gmail.com> And with that, JFQ, I won't post to this thread again. So if you want the last word, it is yours (here's hoping). c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 2 20:29:09 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 20:29:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MFA References: <9b1b9dab0610020821ge307eadtb2598f7c736e52f@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0610021701g14ceb6d1q57549627eca77448@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0610021702h192300cch8b6722f392ee8132@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006201c6e682$f51a0d20$80b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > And with that, JFQ, I won't post to this thread again. So if you want > the last word, it is yours (here's hoping). > > c No, no, mine is the last word! --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Oct 3 03:08:53 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 09:08:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <006501c6e6ba$c9587180$17ad3252@ANNY> Poem: "Dance Suite: Hip Hop" by W.D. Snodgrass from Not for Specialists: New and Selected Poems. ? BOA Editions, Ltd. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Dance Suite: Hip Hop Lined up Girls and boys, Coins in the drop slot; wind-up toys; Necks that switch Every which way; Join the Hip Hop, rapping like a robot. Streets full of bus fumes; stairs full of shovin'; TV's full of promises: luxuries and lovin'; Oil's on the water; spray's on the pumpkin; Asprin's full of strychnine, cyanide or somethin'. Wig-wag Knee joints, Elbows crimped to zig-zag points; Wrists and ankles Twisted into angles; Splayed-out fingers clamping into fists. Sidewalks full of garbage; pictures in the news; Mayor's on the radio spouting out excuses; Bars on the storefronts; landlord's on the way; Cops have got their spring list-they'll make it pay. Nuts and bolts Charged by volts Jumpstart into spastic jerks and jolts; Gears and notches Grinding crotches, Juicing up the parts of the fools that watch us. Ground's full of chemicals; ocean's full of waste; Brother's full of steroids; meat got no taste; Ceilings full of roaches; rats around the cradle; Everybody's learned to read the lies on the label. Swirl around Clown, on the ground, Twirling like a dervish whirls, upside down; Legs there, Kicking in the air Striking like scorpions or Medusa hair. A bullet's in the chamber; needle's in the vein; Leg's set in plaster; no time for pain; Street's full of dealers; girls are on the curbs; Make a killing fast and get out for the suburbs. Shift your shoulder Like a soldier Ant, an identical mannekin or clone; Who can hurt a tall doll Rigid and mechanical Dancing the dictates of a microphone? W.D. Snodgrass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 3 09:46:17 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 09:46:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac References: <006501c6e6ba$c9587180$17ad3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <00e201c6e6f2$4d5b21d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Snodgrass is getting curmudgeonly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:08 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Poem: "Dance Suite: Hip Hop" by W.D. Snodgrass from Not for Specialists: New and Selected Poems. ? BOA Editions, Ltd. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Dance Suite: Hip Hop Lined up Girls and boys, Coins in the drop slot; wind-up toys; Necks that switch Every which way; Join the Hip Hop, rapping like a robot. Streets full of bus fumes; stairs full of shovin'; TV's full of promises: luxuries and lovin'; Oil's on the water; spray's on the pumpkin; Asprin's full of strychnine, cyanide or somethin'. Wig-wag Knee joints, Elbows crimped to zig-zag points; Wrists and ankles Twisted into angles; Splayed-out fingers clamping into fists. Sidewalks full of garbage; pictures in the news; Mayor's on the radio spouting out excuses; Bars on the storefronts; landlord's on the way; Cops have got their spring list-they'll make it pay. Nuts and bolts Charged by volts Jumpstart into spastic jerks and jolts; Gears and notches Grinding crotches, Juicing up the parts of the fools that watch us. Ground's full of chemicals; ocean's full of waste; Brother's full of steroids; meat got no taste; Ceilings full of roaches; rats around the cradle; Everybody's learned to read the lies on the label. Swirl around Clown, on the ground, Twirling like a dervish whirls, upside down; Legs there, Kicking in the air Striking like scorpions or Medusa hair. A bullet's in the chamber; needle's in the vein; Leg's set in plaster; no time for pain; Street's full of dealers; girls are on the curbs; Make a killing fast and get out for the suburbs. Shift your shoulder Like a soldier Ant, an identical mannekin or clone; Who can hurt a tall doll Rigid and mechanical Dancing the dictates of a microphone? W.D. Snodgrass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 3 13:46:53 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:46:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery off campus in Providence Message-ID: <3b6.7ea9594.3253fc0d@aol.com> _http://www.projo.com/art/content/artsun-ashbery_10-01-06_D724SLM.27bdaba.html _ (http://www.projo.com/art/content/artsun-ashbery_10-01-06_D724SLM.27bdaba.html) ?He?s one of those very few paradigm-shifting poets. When he won the Pulitzer Prize in the mid-1970s, it had an enormous impact on the poetry landscape in America,? Magee said last week. ?People who didn?t feel like they needed to pay attention to formally innovative writing previously, all of a sudden felt like probably they should pay attention.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Oct 3 14:54:11 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 11:54:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: "Mad libs" Message-ID: <648208b60610031154p7e8d50det52cbef2336a93e42@mail.gmail.com> I can't seem to find the thread relating to this and thus missed the attribution: December. An arctic wind, new and ________ . ________ and polar bears sink into their winter ________. Just then, ________ , in the folds of ________ snow, the ________ of spring get set. June. In a ________ ceremony filled with ________, the man is ________ at ________. Just then it is midnight in the ________ ________. The ________ reports for duty: he recognizes the ________. December. Suddenly the ________ turns over , I ________ in a squalid ________, and watch, as expected, just then all my stolen ________ drift by like ________ ________ . Who dunnit? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 3 15:31:25 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:31:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: "Mad libs" References: <648208b60610031154p7e8d50det52cbef2336a93e42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <015b01c6e722$83f825a0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I think this may have been an exercise Jeff Newberry posted? I posted a similar one, but this one isn't mine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: "Mad libs" >I can't seem to find the thread relating to this and thus missed the > attribution: > > December. An arctic wind, new > and ________ . ________ and polar bears > sink into their winter ________. > Just then, > ________ , in the folds of ________ snow, > the ________ of spring get set. > > June. In a ________ ceremony > filled with ________, > the man is ________ at ________. > Just then > it is midnight in the ________ ________. The ________ > reports for duty: he recognizes the ________. > > December. Suddenly the ________ > turns over , I ________ in a squalid > ________, and watch, as expected, > just then > all my stolen ________ drift by > like ________ ________ . > > Who dunnit? > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 3 15:32:59 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:32:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: "Mad libs" References: <648208b60610031154p7e8d50det52cbef2336a93e42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <016301c6e722$bc19a760$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Google Desktop to the rescue. It was Gerald Schwartz, not a regular in these parts, and I hope he'll come back and discuss it more. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: "Mad libs" >I can't seem to find the thread relating to this and thus missed the > attribution: > > December. An arctic wind, new > and ________ . ________ and polar bears > sink into their winter ________. > Just then, > ________ , in the folds of ________ snow, > the ________ of spring get set. > > June. In a ________ ceremony > filled with ________, > the man is ________ at ________. > Just then > it is midnight in the ________ ________. The ________ > reports for duty: he recognizes the ________. > > December. Suddenly the ________ > turns over , I ________ in a squalid > ________, and watch, as expected, > just then > all my stolen ________ drift by > like ________ ________ . > > Who dunnit? > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 3 16:46:47 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:46:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Stevens Walk...Hartford CT, donation solicitation Message-ID: <393.1375e722.32542637@aol.com> The Friends (& Enemies) of Wallace Stevens have ordered the first 3 of the 13 stones comprising sections of 'Thirteen Ways Of Looking At A Blackbird'. The granite stones will grace the route known as The Wallace Stevens Walk, running from Stevens' workplace, the historic Hartford Insurance Company building on Asylum Avenue, to his former home on Westerly Terrace. If anyone wants to see a drawing of what the first stones will look like, please let me know, and I'll email you the file. (In a few weeks we should have an actual photo to share.) I don't think a jpeg file will get thru listserv software intact. We are looking for donors, of course, to help us pay for and put stones 4-13 in place along The Walk. We'll accept any amount...but the giving levels are: $ 50 Letter $ 100 Word $ 500 Line $1000 Stanza $2500 Stone Blackbird Richard Wilbur, Helen Vendler, J.D. McClatchy, Galway Kinnell, Bob Holman, John Taggart, Elaine Equi, Susan Howe, Jonathan Galassi are among the literary luminaries who have donated to this project. There might be few people on this list who have given, and we thank you for that. You might want to think about increasing your gift to the next level? Donations at the Stanza and Stone Blackbird level get you a very lovely handprinted broadside of 'The Plain Sense of Things' or a cute little hand-carved & hand-painted blackbird done by the artist Dona Dalton. Checks payable to "The Friends of Wallace Stevens", a not-for-profit organization, and are tax deductible. Jim Finnegan 18 Woodrow Street West Hartford CT 06107 860-561-8696 x302 860-521-0358 home 860-508-2810 cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Tue Oct 3 17:31:51 2006 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 16:31:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mad Libs In-Reply-To: References: <200609261600.k8QG04oO013035@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20061003162944.02056e50@mail.ilstu.edu> Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think anyone has yet identified the subscriber who first sent this exercise to the list. It was "Parker, Alan Michael" on Sep 26. (I kept it because I thought it was an interesting exercise to use in a workshop.) 'At 12:20 PM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >Here's an exercise I use in class, familiar I'm sure to many of you as >Mad Libs. If you'd like to tilt this whirl, or at the windmill, that >would be nifty; I'll post the original in a day or two. > >Exercised, as ever, and interested in what poems do -- >AMP > > >________ _________ > > > >December. An arctic wind, new >And ________ . ________ and polar bears >Sink into their winter ________. >Just then, >________ , in the folds of ________ snow, >The ________ of spring get set. > >June. In a ________ ceremony >Filled with ________, >The man is ________ at ________. >Just then >It is midnight in the ________ ________. The ________ >Reports for duty: he recognizes the ________. > >December. Suddenly the ________ >turns over , I ________ in a squalid >________, and watch, as expected, >Just then >All my stolen ________ drift by >Like ________ ________ . > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 3 18:33:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:33:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mad Libs Message-ID: I've not read this one...but 'the process' seem similar: In W.D. Snodgrass's De/Compositions (Graywolf, $16 paperback), the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet rewrites 101 poems ? some classics, all by well-known authors ? but writes them badly. In a few instances, the revisions are from the original authors. The results are slyly instructive and often funny. Mr. Snodgrass's de/compositions are an artform of a very low sort, but one that only a skilled practitioner could achieve. They retain the form of the original; still, each artless paraphrase lands on the page with a dull, leaden thud. The author organizes his efforts into five sections according to the essential trait that he has squeezed out of the original: "Abstract & General vs. Concrete & Specific," "Undercurrents," "The Singular Voice," "Metrics & Music" and "Structure & Climax." These titles help, particularly with the de/compositions that you can tell are inferior to the original, but for which you cannot put your finger on exactly what is missing. If, even with these headings, the lesson is not within reach, Mr. Snodgrass has appended a brief commentary at the end of each section that helps identify the missing element from each de/composition. De/Compositions is a fabulous book for poetry circles, book clubs, and anyone in search of what makes poetry special or trying to improve one's own. Mining the lessons in this book is something like the work of an accident reconstruction expert, as we learn our lessons from the details of failure, but with a sublime difference: There's a laugh on nearly every page. As Mr. Snodgrass acknowledges in his preface, De/Compositions illustrates W.H. Auden's comment that there are few things funnier than bad poems. >From Tom Mayo, review 2002 http://faculty.smu.edu/tmayo/poetry07apr02.htm In a message dated 10/3/2006 5:32:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wwmorgan at ilstu.edu writes: Here's an exercise I use in class, familiar I'm sure to many of you as >Mad Libs. If you'd like to tilt this whirl, or at the windmill, that >would be nifty; I'll post the original in a day or two. > >Exercised, as ever, and interested in what poems do -- >AMP > > >________ _________ > > > >December. An arctic wind, new >And ________ . ________ and polar bears >Sink into their winter ________. >Just then, >________ , in the folds of ________ snow, >The ________ of spring get set. > >June. In a ________ ceremony >Filled with ________, >The man is ________ at ________. >Just then >It is midnight in the ________ ________. The ________ >Reports for duty: he recognizes the ________. > >December. Suddenly the ________ >turns over , I ________ in a squalid >________, and watch, as expected, >Just then >All my stolen ________ drift by >Like ________ ________ . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 3 19:15:17 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:15:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mad Libs References: Message-ID: <000e01c6e741$ca04cac0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I use Mary Oliver's wonderful essay on "Sound," where she analyzes "Stopping by Woods" on the basis of its sound values. Then sometimes I'll ask my students to destroy the poem as totally as they can, by changing just one word...and no major distorting of the meaning. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Mad Libs I've not read this one...but 'the process' seem similar: In W.D. Snodgrass's De/Compositions (Graywolf, $16 paperback), the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet rewrites 101 poems ? some classics, all by well-known authors ? but writes them badly. In a few instances, the revisions are from the original authors. The results are slyly instructive and often funny. Mr. Snodgrass's de/compositions are an artform of a very low sort, but one that only a skilled practitioner could achieve. They retain the form of the original; still, each artless paraphrase lands on the page with a dull, leaden thud. The author organizes his efforts into five sections according to the essential trait that he has squeezed out of the original: "Abstract & General vs. Concrete & Specific," "Undercurrents," "The Singular Voice," "Metrics & Music" and "Structure & Climax." These titles help, particularly with the de/compositions that you can tell are inferior to the original, but for which you cannot put your finger on exactly what is missing. If, even with these headings, the lesson is not within reach, Mr. Snodgrass has appended a brief commentary at the end of each section that helps identify the missing element from each de/composition. De/Compositions is a fabulous book for poetry circles, book clubs, and anyone in search of what makes poetry special or trying to improve one's own. Mining the lessons in this book is something like the work of an accident reconstruction expert, as we learn our lessons from the details of failure, but with a sublime difference: There's a laugh on nearly every page. As Mr. Snodgrass acknowledges in his preface, De/Compositions illustrates W.H. Auden's comment that there are few things funnier than bad poems. From Tom Mayo, review 2002 http://faculty.smu.edu/tmayo/poetry07apr02.htm In a message dated 10/3/2006 5:32:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wwmorgan at ilstu.edu writes: Here's an exercise I use in class, familiar I'm sure to many of you as >Mad Libs. If you'd like to tilt this whirl, or at the windmill, that >would be nifty; I'll post the original in a day or two. > >Exercised, as ever, and interested in what poems do -- >AMP > > >________ _________ > > > >December. An arctic wind, new >And ________ . ________ and polar bears >Sink into their winter ________. >Just then, >________ , in the folds of ________ snow, >The ________ of spring get set. > >June. In a ________ ceremony >Filled with ________, >The man is ________ at ________. >Just then >It is midnight in the ________ ________. The ________ >Reports for duty: he recognizes the ________. > >December. Suddenly the ________ >turns over , I ________ in a squalid >________, and watch, as expected, >Just then >All my stolen ________ drift by >Like ________ ________ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kazmandu at aol.com Tue Oct 3 19:15:43 2006 From: kazmandu at aol.com (kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:15:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] art for art sake In-Reply-To: <200610021447.k92El1oQ009150@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200610021447.k92El1oQ009150@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <8C8B558FBCA97A7-13A0-268F@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> My problem with it is that it's by someone trying to give us Sage Advice rather than poetry, which can be so much more than Sage Advice. --Bob G. My problem is they failed at sage advice which can be so much more than ???art for art sake??? poetry. --Kaz M. Ah, but what can the best Sage Advice get you to that's better than aesthetic pleasure, which is the aim of art for art sake art, Kaz? --Bob Art-For-Art's-Sake Grumman When sage advice is aesthetic pleasure --Kaz No-limitations-on-art Maslanka ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Oct 3 19:37:54 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 19:37:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Wallace Stevens Walk...Hartford CT, donation solicitation Message-ID: <515.d915c.32544e52@cs.com> In a message dated 10/3/2006 3:47:40 PM Central Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > We are looking for donors, of course, to help us > pay for and put stones 4-13 in place along The Walk. > We'll accept any amount...but the giving levels are: > $ 50 Letter > $ 100 Word > $ 500 Line > $1000 Stanza > $2500 Stone Blackbird > > Could I donate "the stuff that dreams are made of"? Still, a neat idea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 3 20:25:04 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:25:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] art for art sake References: <200610021447.k92El1oQ009150@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <8C8B558FBCA97A7-13A0-268F@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004d01c6e74b$8ed31740$78b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> My problem with it is that it's by someone trying to give us Sage Advice rather than poetry, which can be so much more than Sage Advice. --Bob G. My problem is they failed at sage advice which can be so much more than ?art for art sake" poetry. --Kaz M. Ah, but what can the best Sage Advice get you to that's better than aesthetic pleasure, which is the aim of art for art's sake art, Kaz? --Bob Art-For-Art's-Sake Grumman When sage advice is aesthetic pleasure --Kaz No-limitations-on-art Maslanka Sorry, Kaz, can't see how the intrusion of any kind of advice can not funk an artwork--well, except as contrast to it. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 3 21:23:03 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:23:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] art for art sake Message-ID: <463.73efa722.325466f7@aol.com> In a message dated 10/3/2006 7:16:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kazmandu at aol.com writes: When sage advice is aesthetic pleasure --Kaz No-limitations-on-art Maslanka This is the beauty of much philosophy...the sheer felicity of the thought, its crystalline intensity or the finely refined rendering of a difficult concept, that rises to the level of art. The philosopher so often discounts the moments he has touched poetry without being aware of it. Finnngean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 3 22:32:15 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 22:32:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] art for art sake References: <200610021447.k92El1oQ009150@wiz.cath.vt.edu><8C8B558FBCA97A7-13A0-268F@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com> <004d01c6e74b$8ed31740$78b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007301c6e75d$4e377570$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Pope? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] art for art sake My problem with it is that it's by someone trying to give us Sage Advice rather than poetry, which can be so much more than Sage Advice. --Bob G. My problem is they failed at sage advice which can be so much more than ?art for art sake" poetry. --Kaz M. Ah, but what can the best Sage Advice get you to that's better than aesthetic pleasure, which is the aim of art for art's sake art, Kaz? --Bob Art-For-Art's-Sake Grumman When sage advice is aesthetic pleasure --Kaz No-limitations-on-art Maslanka Sorry, Kaz, can't see how the intrusion of any kind of advice can not funk an artwork--well, except as contrast to it. --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 4 09:11:13 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:11:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Wales v. Heaney Message-ID: <520.80abefb.32550cf1@aol.com> http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_headline=welsh-poet-s-pri ze-challenge&method=full&objectid=17867814&siteid=50082-name_page.html Welsh poet's prize challenge Oct 4 2006 A WELSH poet will go head-to-head today with Seamus Heaney for the UK's most valuable prize for verse. Kate Bingham, whose family originates from South Wales, will compete against the Irish bard in the best collection category of the Forward Prizes for Poetry 2006. Mrs Bingham is one of three Welsh poets on the shortlists - Ian Gregson, from Bangor, and Michael Arnold Williams, from Newport, also nominated. The prizes, worth a total of ?16,0000, cover three different categories including newcomers, established writers and best single poem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 4 09:15:28 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:15:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Palm Beach Poetry Festival Message-ID: <488.d929a32.32550df0@aol.com> In a message dated 10/3/2006 11:12:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PalmBeachPoeFest writes: We thought you'd be interested to learn about the poetry workshops we are offering as described in the attached brochure. Please visit our website for complete information Most cordially, (mailto:arleneeager at yahoo.com) Miles A. Coon Director, Palm Beach Poetry Festival Miles A. Coon Director, Palm Beach Poetry Festival Third Annual Palm Beach Poetry Festival January 23-28, 2007 at Old School Square Cultural Arts Center Delray Beach, Florida 33444 Advanced Poetry Workshops with Mark Doty, Stephen Dunn, Thomas Lux, Heather McHugh, Alan Shapiro and Ellen Bryant Voigt Intermediate Poetry Workshops with Dorianne Laux and Quincy Troupe Florida Poets Reading with Barbara Hamby and David Kirby Late Night Coffee House Reading with Jeffrey McDaniel and Patricia Smith _www.palmbeachpoetryfestival.org_ (http://www.palmbeachpoetryfestival.com/) The third annual Palm Beach Poetry Festival is presented by Palm Beach Poetry Festival, Inc. in partnership with Old School Square Cultural Arts Center. Palm Beach Poetry Festival, Inc. is a Florida nonprofit corporation, tax-exempt pursuant to Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code and is a member of the Palm Beeach County Cultural Council. All donations are tax-deductible to the full extent of the law -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Oct 4 11:20:57 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:20:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Palm Beach Poetry Festival References: <488.d929a32.32550df0@aol.com> Message-ID: <00be01c6e7c8$b2755ff0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I wonder what makes one an advance workshop person, and what relegates one to intermediate status. And I wonder if there'll be an appearance by my old pal Ed Skellings, who's flown totally under the radar of mainstreamery since we left Iowa, but managed to become poet laureate of Florida (since 1980 - a lifetime appointment). ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Palm Beach Poetry Festival In a message dated 10/3/2006 11:12:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PalmBeachPoeFest writes: We thought you'd be interested to learn about the poetry workshops we are offering as described in the attached brochure. Please visit our website for complete information Most cordially, Miles A. Coon Director, Palm Beach Poetry Festival Miles A. Coon Director, Palm Beach Poetry Festival Third Annual Palm Beach Poetry Festival January 23-28, 2007 at Old School Square Cultural Arts Center Delray Beach, Florida 33444 Advanced Poetry Workshops with Mark Doty, Stephen Dunn, Thomas Lux, Heather McHugh, Alan Shapiro and Ellen Bryant Voigt Intermediate Poetry Workshops with Dorianne Laux and Quincy Troupe Florida Poets Reading with Barbara Hamby and David Kirby Late Night Coffee House Reading with Jeffrey McDaniel and Patricia Smith www.palmbeachpoetryfestival.org The third annual Palm Beach Poetry Festival is presented by Palm Beach Poetry Festival, Inc. in partnership with Old School Square Cultural Arts Center. Palm Beach Poetry Festival, Inc. is a Florida nonprofit corporation, tax-exempt pursuant to Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code and is a member of the Palm Beeach County Cultural Council. All donations are tax-deductible to the full extent of the law ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 4 11:44:59 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:44:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] versapolooza, Dodge Festival recap Message-ID: <2e3.16e03e55.325530fb@aol.com> _http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_en_ot/poetry_festival_1_ (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_en_ot/poetry_festival_1) The festival's organizers were expecting crowds to be drawn to a Saturday night program in which nearly two dozen renowned poets were to answer Gwendolyn Brooks' question, "How is the truth to be said?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker at davidson.edu Wed Oct 4 13:24:35 2006 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:24:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mad Libs In-Reply-To: <200610041600.k94G07oO020136@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Hey. Didn't know this had stuck--sorry for not posting the "real poem" (a translation) sooner. - AMP **** Wall Calendar December. An arctic wind, new And bitter. Angels and polar bears Sink into their winter slumber. Just then, Above, in the folds of soft snow, The traps of spring get set. June. In a military ceremony Filled with sunshine, The man is buried at noon. Just then It is midnight in the woman's belly. The fetus Reports for duty: he recognizes the code. December. Suddenly the boat Turns over, I drown in a squalid Sea, and watch, as expected, Just then All my stolen years drift by Like sweet water . - Dan Pagis, trans. from the Hebrew by Tsipi Keller. The Vintage Book of Contemporary World Poetry, J.D. McClatchy, ed. (NY: Vintage, 1996). From tad at opus40.org Wed Oct 4 13:27:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:27:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] versapolooza, Dodge Festival recap References: <2e3.16e03e55.325530fb@aol.com> Message-ID: <012f01c6e7da$57c605c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Slant. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] versapolooza, Dodge Festival recap http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_en_ot/poetry_festival_1 The festival's organizers were expecting crowds to be drawn to a Saturday night program in which nearly two dozen renowned poets were to answer Gwendolyn Brooks' question, "How is the truth to be said?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 4 13:28:57 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:28:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: SPD RECOMMENDS: NEW TITLES Message-ID: <529.97e22c4.32554959@aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Small Press Distribution" Subject: SPD RECOMMENDS: NEW TITLES for Sept 4?Sept 19, 2006 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:47:57 -0700 Size: 19757 URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 4 13:52:05 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:52:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Creeley Conference coming up in Buffalo Message-ID: <2a7.26a4c46b.32554ec5@aol.com> On Words A Conference on the Life and Work of Robert Creeley October 12-14, 2006 College of Arts and Sciences University at Buffalo, The State University of New York Program of Events Thursday October 12 8pm. Trinity Church, 371 Delaware Ave Readings by Rosmarie Waldrop and Robin Blaser Friday October 13 10am. Poetry Collection, 420 Capen Hall 10am. Benjamin Friedlander: ?What is Experience?? 11am. Alan Golding: ?Seriality in Creeley?s Poetry.? Lunch l:30pm. Michael Gizzi: ?Robert Creeley: Music on Words.? 2:30pm. Peter Middleton: ?Creeley Teaching.? 3:30pm. Rachel Blau du Plessis: ?Death and Sexual Difference in later Creeley.? 8pm. Trinity Church, 371 Delaware Ave. Readings by Susan Howe and John Ashbery Saturday October 14 10am Trinity Church Chapel, 371 Delaware Ave. 10am. Stephen Fredman: ?Talk as Action: Robert Creeley, Bob Dylan and the Art of the Interview.? 11am. Michael Davidson: ??the repeated / insistence?: Creeley?s Rage.1 Lunch l:30pm. Charles Altieri: ?Why does Echoes Echo?? 2:30pm. Peter Quartermain: ?Momently.? 3:30pm. Marjorie Perloff: ?Creeley as Radical Poet.? 8pm. Trinity Church, 371 Delaware Ave. Readings by Charles Bernstein and Ann Lauterbach ON WORDS is a production of the UB Poetics Program in cooperation with the UB English Department, UB Poetry Collection, and the UB Humanities Institute. It is sponsored in part by the Butler Chair, Department of English; the Samuel P. Capen Chair of Poetry and Humanities (Susan Howe); the Curator of Poetry and Rare Books (Michael Basinski); the Dean?s Office, UB College of Arts and Sciences; the David Gray Chair of Poetry and Letters (Steve McCaffery); the James H. McNufty Chair of English (Dennis Tedlock); the UB Foundation.; UB Canadian-American Studies Committee; and the Canadian Consulate in Buffalo. All events are free and open to the public. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 4 14:02:06 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 14:02:06 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] versapolooza, Dodge Festival recap Message-ID: Oh, took me a minute to get it... ED (no, not that one) In a message dated 10/4/2006 1:27:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tad at opus40.org writes: Slant. ----- Original Message ----- From: _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) To: _new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] versapolooza, Dodge Festival recap _http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_en_ot/poetry_festival_1_ (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_en_ot/poetry_festival_1) The festival's organizers were expecting crowds to be drawn to a Saturday night program in which nearly two dozen renowned poets were to answer Gwendolyn Brooks' question, "How is the truth to be said -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Oct 4 17:47:33 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:47:33 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Katia Kapovich's Gogol in Rome Message-ID: <002401c77704$0ceece60$fded3652@ANNY> Katia Kapovich's "Gogol in Rome" reviewed by Nicole Mauro on Jacket: http://jacketmagazine.com/31/mauro-kapo.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Oct 4 19:22:06 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:22:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mad Libs In-Reply-To: References: <200610041600.k94G07oO020136@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60610041622m6e33e4c8x4754e062d48df3ce@mail.gmail.com> Aha! Thank you. All the time I was thinking Charles Simic. Wrong. - Jim On 10/4/06, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Hey. > > Didn't know this had stuck--sorry for not posting the "real poem" (a > translation) sooner. > > - AMP > > **** > > Wall Calendar > > > > December. An arctic wind, new > And bitter. Angels and polar bears > Sink into their winter slumber. > Just then, > Above, in the folds of soft snow, > The traps of spring get set. > > June. In a military ceremony > Filled with sunshine, > The man is buried at noon. > Just then > It is midnight in the woman's belly. The fetus > Reports for duty: he recognizes the code. > > December. Suddenly the boat > Turns over, I drown in a squalid > Sea, and watch, as expected, > Just then > All my stolen years drift by > Like sweet water . > > > > - Dan Pagis, trans. from the Hebrew by Tsipi Keller. > The Vintage Book of Contemporary World Poetry, > J.D. McClatchy, ed. (NY: Vintage, 1996). > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Oct 5 18:41:23 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 22:41:23 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Atlantic Community 1960s - 1970s" Roosevelt Study Center, Middelburg, the Netherlands Message-ID: <001501c777d4$c34a7f80$65ad3452@ANNY> > Van: Scott Smith G.P. [mailto:gp.scott_smith at zeeland.nl] > Verzonden: woensdag 13 september 2006 9:26 Call for Papers International Conference, September 2007 Location: Roosevelt Study Center, Middelburg, the Netherlands Promoters: Roosevelt Study Center, in cooperation with the University of Cergy-Pontoise Theme: Atlantic, Euratlantic, or Europe-America? The Atlantic Community and the European Idea from Kennedy to Nixon Date: Thursday 20th - Friday 21st September 2007 (with arrival on Wednesday 19th) Background: For more than forty years the security alliance of the North Atlantic Treaty symbolised the common interests of Western Europe and North America, and provided the context for all transatlantic political and economic relations. However, since the end of the Cold War the changing international environment has raised questions about the actual depth of mutual interests between Europe and the United States. Together with the availability of new research materials, this has provoked a renewed investigation among historians into the whole concept of Atlantic Community: The particular individuals and groups that promoted it, the methods they used to promote it, the different perspectives across national interests, and its impact on political and social life in general. This project consists of two conferences: The first, which took place at the University of Cergy-Pontoise in June 2006, focused on the Atlantic Community idea and those who developed it during the 1940s and 1950s. The second, which will take place at the Roosevelt Study Center in September 2007, will continue the theme by looking at the transition of the Atlantic Community and the European Idea from 1960 through to the early 1970s. Synopsis: >From the early 1960s onwards the development of a stronger European voice within the Atlantic Alliance - both collectively via the EEC and individually from specific nations - caused many questions to be raised about the goal of an Atlantic Community. The 'European Idea' and the proposal for 'two pillars', based on a greater equality between the United States and Western Europe, was an attempt get beyond the impression of Atlantic Community as American hegemony. But was the Community concept flexible enough to absorb it? From Kennedy's optimistic Trade Expansion Act to Kissinger's ill-fated Year of Europe, the United States attempted to accommodate and encompass a stronger European presence. Yet tensions among the European powers themselves over the future of Europe, particularly between Britain and France, also prevented a clear vision from emerging. Meanwhile global forces impacted on the passage of transatlantic cooperation. Economic difficulties spurred on by the 1973 oil crisis brought disappointments for those who thought the Hague summit of 1969 was the blueprint for a new leap forward in European integration. Ostpolitik and superpower detente revealed different perspectives on each side of the Atlantic concerning the future of East-West relations. The rise of new economic powers such as Japan brought a reconfiguring of 'the West' via an expanded OECD and the arrival of the Trilateral Commission. Call for Papers: We invite papers that will offer insights into the different perspectives on and uses of the Atlantic Community and the European Idea, and the impact that they had on policy-making during the 1960s and 1970s. We are particularly interested in the following themes: 1) Key actors (both organisations and individuals) who played a role in conducting transatlantic relations during these decades. 2) Inter-governmental and transnational non-governmental organisations such as NATO, OECD, CSCE/OSCE, Bilderberg, Trilateral Commission. 3) National perspectives as portrayed through government policies, public diplomacy, and the media in North America and Western Europe. 4) Key policies that encapsulated the Atlantic idea e.g. the Multilateral Force. 5) Influential individuals who had a major impact either publicly or behind the scenes, such as Kennedy, Ball, de Gaulle, Kissinger, Brandt, Luns, and Prince Bernhard. 6) Developments that caused major strains within the Atlantic Alliance, such as Gaullism, crises in the Middle East, and Eurocommunism. Please send all proposals to the following email addresses: Giles Scott-Smith at g.scott-smith at zeeland.nl Valerie Aubourg at valerie at aubourg.net Deadline for proposals: 1st December 2006 Each proposal should include a provisional title, an abstract (max. 1 page), and a brief CV. For further information please contact Giles Scott-Smith at g.scott-smith at zeeland.nl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jayd at csi.com Thu Oct 5 19:37:12 2006 From: jayd at csi.com (Jay Dougherty) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 19:37:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Interview with John Yamrus Message-ID: <5c1si1$8jb12r@smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net> New interview with poet John Yamrus has been posted on PoetryCircle.com: http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,2535.0.html From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Oct 5 20:34:18 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 20:34:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] art for art sake References: <200610021447.k92El1oQ009150@wiz.cath.vt.edu><8C8B558FBCA97A7-13A0-268F@mblk-r34.sysops.aol.com><004d01c6e74b$8ed31740$78b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <007301c6e75d$4e377570$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <007001c6e8df$2f7b2b30$91b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Pope? Yes. His Sage Advice is what made him a minor poet, despite the aesthetic pleasure one can get from it (since that aesthetic pleasure is considerably less than the aesthetic pleasure available in the work of major poets). --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] art for art sake My problem with it is that it's by someone trying to give us Sage Advice rather than poetry, which can be so much more than Sage Advice. --Bob G. My problem is they failed at sage advice which can be so much more than ?art for art sake" poetry. --Kaz M. Ah, but what can the best Sage Advice get you to that's better than aesthetic pleasure, which is the aim of art for art's sake art, Kaz? --Bob Art-For-Art's-Sake Grumman When sage advice is aesthetic pleasure --Kaz No-limitations-on-art Maslanka Sorry, Kaz, can't see how the intrusion of any kind of advice can not funk an artwork--well, except as contrast to it. --Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 6 10:55:27 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 09:55:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Cartoons Message-ID: In case you haven't seen it, Poetryfoundation.org has a spread of New Yorker cartoons about poetry on its site. Some classic stuff. My personal favorite is Roz Chast's "T. S. Eliot Meets Beavis & Butt-Head." http://poetryfoundation.org/dispatches/cartoonarchive.html ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Oct 6 11:36:17 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:36:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Cartoons Message-ID: <269.111fc0f9.3257d1f1@cs.com> My favorite (on my office door) is missing: Edgar Allan Poe Returns a Christmas Present. Shows him in a pet shop with a raven in a cage: "He only knows one word." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 6 11:36:37 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 17:36:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Cartoons References: Message-ID: <001c01c6e95d$36225d90$c9a83852@ANNY> :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Cartoons In case you haven't seen it, Poetryfoundation.org has a spread of New Yorker cartoons about poetry on its site. Some classic stuff. My personal favorite is Roz Chast's "T. S. Eliot Meets Beavis & Butt-Head." http://poetryfoundation.org/dispatches/cartoonarchive.html ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 6 12:07:47 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:07:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Cartoons In-Reply-To: <269.111fc0f9.3257d1f1@cs.com> References: <269.111fc0f9.3257d1f1@cs.com> Message-ID: <68D910E0-5107-4D82-A4EC-A3E0D05265BF@ripon.edu> For years on my office door (now lost) was one of those beautifully stuffy cocktail parties whose caption was something like "Now, Wallace Stevens--was he the doctor or the insurance man?" Another favorite was a bucolic landscape, with every item labelled for poetic use: metaphor for growth, symbol of eternity, etc. On Oct 6, 2006, at 10:36 AM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > My favorite (on my office door) is missing: Edgar Allan Poe Returns > a Christmas Present. Shows him in a pet shop with a raven in a > cage: "He only knows one word." ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Oct 6 12:30:19 2006 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:30:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Message-ID: <1AEF49EC-6117-4271-B7B7-0E0F430D38C5@ripon.edu> On the Poetry Foundation list at the moment, the top 6 poetry bestsellers of contemporary verse for this week are books by only two poets. Quiz: name the two without looking. Both poets also have books on the list further down in the rankings. (I don't know how or by whom the rankings are done. Does anyone?) ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 6 12:45:06 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:45:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gwendolyn Brooks Message-ID: I've been catching up on the Poetry Foundation site this morning (obviously). If, like me, you haven't been there recently, you might like to know that they're adding content at an amazing rate. Just goes to show what a hundred million dollars can do. . . . Among other things, I recommend the review of the new Gwendolyn Brooks selected poems in the invaluable American Poets Project series from Library of America. It's in *Poetry* but also posted on the web site. Elizabeth Alexander edited the Brooks volume, and Danielle Chapman reviews it. http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/1006/comment_178686.html This book of Brooks's work has to be one of the most welcome, most overdue collections in many years. I hope it will finally displace the inadequate 1963 selected in everyone's collection. And perhaps lure readers to explore Brooks beyond "We Real Cool." Alexander does a fabulous job of presenting Brooks at her best, I think--though I greatly regret the omission of her long poem "In the Mecca," title piece of a long-out-of-print 1968 volume. It's missing only due to length, Alexander reports in her introduction. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 6 13:31:54 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:31:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Message-ID: <4f7.656d1b1.3257ed0a@aol.com> Mary Oliver and Billy Collins? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 6 13:33:40 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:33:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Message-ID: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com> Damn, I was right. I hate when that happens. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Oct 6 14:12:57 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:12:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers References: <4f7.656d1b1.3257ed0a@aol.com> Message-ID: <004d01c6e973$0d4d2bf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Collins and Bukowski? ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Mary Oliver and Billy Collins? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Oct 6 14:14:13 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:14:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com> Message-ID: <009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Which means (even worse) I was wrong. And my first instinct was Oliver and Collins. ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Damn, I was right. I hate when that happens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 6 16:35:31 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 22:35:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com> <009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <00f301c6e986$f7b23a60$c9a83852@ANNY> I could have gotten to Collins myself. We are talking of best-sellers, he is an incredible entertainer, at least from the radio programs I was able to listen to. Credit has to be given. From: TheOldMole &Views Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Which means (even worse) I was wrong. And my first instinct was Oliver and Collins. From: AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:33 PM Damn, I was right. I hate when that happens. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 6 16:58:32 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:58:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com><009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <00f301c6e986$f7b23a60$c9a83852@ANNY> Message-ID: <006801c6e98a$3152b3a0$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I understand Collins's popularity, but how about Oliver's? What's she doing that a hundred other mainstream poets aren't? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Fri Oct 6 17:16:03 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 08:16:03 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers In-Reply-To: <006801c6e98a$3152b3a0$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com><009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <00f301c6e986$f7b23a60$c9a83852@ANNY> <006801c6e98a$3152b3a0$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <89A38F1E-B995-4A22-B184-FB52F266AB42@bigpond.com> I think perhaps it's more a case of what she's done. Her book House of Light and other early works arrested the inner attention of readers with the way she wrote about the natural world. She was able to write with great simplicity that worked by way of a layering of the senses, in which a child-like surprise and delight was at work within real craft. Obviously readers don't mind that she's still writing the same poem over and over. When you're on a good thing... On 07/10/2006, at 7:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I understand Collins's popularity, but how about Oliver's? What's > she doing that a hundred other mainstream poets aren't? > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 6 18:06:52 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:06:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers Message-ID: I would argue that Collins is writing the same poem over and over as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 6 18:11:10 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:11:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com><009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><00f301c6e986$f7b23a60$c9a83852@ANNY><006801c6e98a$3152b3a0$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <89A38F1E-B995-4A22-B184-FB52F266AB42@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <006f01c6e994$59c7dd60$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> She did all this differently from other mainstreamers? Maybe beat them to the punch? I haven't read many of her poems, but those I have read seemed like a lot of other contemporary mainstream poems on the very standard subjects she seems to me to be writing about. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Lawrence" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers >I think perhaps it's more a case of what she's done. Her book House of >Light and other early works > arrested the inner attention of readers with the way she wrote about the > natural world. > She was able to write with great simplicity that worked by way of a > layering of the senses, > in which a child-like surprise and delight was at work within real craft. > Obviously readers > don't mind that she's still writing the same poem over and over. When > you're on a good thing... > > > On 07/10/2006, at 7:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I understand Collins's popularity, but how about Oliver's? What's she >> doing that a hundred other mainstream poets aren't? >> >> --Bob G. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Fri Oct 6 19:19:23 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 10:19:23 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers In-Reply-To: <006f01c6e994$59c7dd60$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com><009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><00f301c6e986$f7b23a60$c9a83852@ANNY><006801c6e98a$3152b3a0$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <89A38F1E-B995-4A22-B184-FB52F266AB42@bigpond.com> <006f01c6e994$59c7dd60$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <6622739B-44D6-4246-9FB8-3054519183C0@bigpond.com> I think perhaps she did do it differently. She was able to write in a sentimental way and get away with it, at least with many, many readers. The ice was/ is/very thin in a lot of her poems, yet despite my ambivalence towards much of her work, I've gone back to some poems. Compared to Collins, who drives me mad with his poems about writing poetry, when Oliver is self-referential her subterfuge often throws a smoke screen over it. On 07/10/2006, at 9:11 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > She did all this differently from other mainstreamers? Maybe beat > them to the punch? I haven't read many of her poems, but those I > have read seemed like a lot of other contemporary mainstream poems > on the very standard subjects she seems to me to be writing about. > > --Bob G. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Lawrence" > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers > > >> I think perhaps it's more a case of what she's done. Her book >> House of Light and other early works >> arrested the inner attention of readers with the way she wrote >> about the natural world. >> She was able to write with great simplicity that worked by way of >> a layering of the senses, >> in which a child-like surprise and delight was at work within >> real craft. Obviously readers >> don't mind that she's still writing the same poem over and over. >> When you're on a good thing... >> >> >> On 07/10/2006, at 7:58 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >> >>> I understand Collins's popularity, but how about Oliver's? >>> What's she doing that a hundred other mainstream poets aren't? >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Oct 6 20:44:39 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:44:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry bestsellers References: <3bc.a8bf56b.3257ed74@aol.com><009501c6e973$3a8df310$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><00f301c6e986$f7b23a60$c9a83852@ANNY><006801c6e98a$3152b3a0$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><89A38F1E-B995-4A22-B184-FB52F266AB42@bigpond.com><006f01c6e994$59c7dd60$42b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <6622739B-44D6-4246-9FB8-3054519183C0@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <001501c6e9a9$c8e1bda0$3eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> From: "Anthony Lawrence" >I think perhaps she did do it differently. She was able to write in a >sentimental way > and get away with it, at least with many, many readers. The ice was/ > is/very thin in a lot of her poems, > yet despite my ambivalence towards much of her work, I've gone back to > some poems. > Compared to Collins, who drives me mad with his poems about writing > poetry, when Oliver > is self-referential her subterfuge often throws a smoke screen over it. Thanks--I gotcha, I think. I was thinking (as usual) of differences of technique or subject rather than of tone or personality (which are as valid). --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 7 04:57:31 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 10:57:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stockholm's Message-ID: <005801c6e9ee$a01225f0$df2ab750@ANNY> Festival (from the Buffalo list): http://arsint.com/authors.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Oct 8 04:02:36 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:02:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Gates of Paradise: Message-ID: <009e01c6eab0$1f0988a0$76ad3452@ANNY> http://www.thegatesofparadise.com/ & a Happy Sunday! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Oct 8 04:34:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:34:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Gates of Paradise: References: <009e01c6eab0$1f0988a0$76ad3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <00c301c6eab4$947e5d00$76ad3452@ANNY> at the very bottom of the previously quoted page there is a link: http://home.att.net/%7Ececw/lastpage.htm :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:02 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Gates of Paradise: http://www.thegatesofparadise.com/ & a Happy Sunday! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 9 10:05:02 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:05:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Neruda Message-ID: How did the grapes come to know the cluster's party line? And do you know which is harder, to let run to seed or to do the picking? It is bad to live without a hell: aren't we able to reconstruct it? And to position sad Nixon with his buttocks over the brazier? Roasting him on low with North American napalm? Pablo Neruda. fr. The Book of Questions XVIII. Trans. William O'Daley. Copper Canyon Press, 1991. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 10:12:09 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:12:09 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Peter Hughes - Berlioz In-Reply-To: <200610081600.k98G04oQ020558@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Hello, "Intercapillary Space" would like to announce the online serial publication of a new sequence by Peter Hughes: 'Berlioz' http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/02/berlioz.html The cover illustration is 'Onset of inspiration: collapse of the wave function' by Peter Hughes 2. my eldest sister & I took first communion at the convent we left at six in the sacred spring morning trembling with family irritation in poplar leaves & fingers anticipation a speechless host young women in white the crass priest called me first as I was male but a deeper music had swung in around & through me all lacewinged mystical & glandular From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 9 14:47:04 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:47:04 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Literary Writers Conference] Message-ID: Robert N. Casper Membership Director Council of Literary Magazines and Presses 154 Christopher Street, Suite 3C New York, NY 10014 212-741-9110 x. 15 _rcasper at clmp.org_ (mailto:rcasper at clmp.org) _http://www.clmp.org_ (http://www.clmp.org/) Dear Writer We at the Council of Literary Magazines and Presses are pleased to let you know about a new conference for literary writers focused on forging lasting relationships with editors, agents, and publishers: The Literary Writers Conference in New York City (LWC}NYC). This three-day conference,taking place November 2?4 at The New School, provides writers of fiction and poetry with the skills necessary to maneuver the complex publishing marketplace. LWC}NYC takes advantage of the book publishing industry?s New York centrality to: } bring top professionals in the literary publishing field together with authors of contemporary literature; } foster a professionally-knowledgeable community of contemporary writers; } improve communication between authors and publishers; } inspire mutually beneficial innovations in ways publishers and authors work together to create, publish, and promote this country?s contemporary literature. For more information, a schedule of events, and to register, visit _www.lwcnyc.org_ (http://www.lwcnyc.org/) . Practical-minded and aimed at engaging writers beyond ?How to Get an Agent,? LWC}NYC features programs such as ?A Writer?s Publishing Team,? ? Grassroots Marketing,? and ?101: Inspiration vs. Perspiration.? Presenters include a ?who?s who? of the publishing community, including editors Sonny Mehta of Knopf, Johnathan Burnham of HarperCollins, Karen Braziller of Persea Books, Jill Bialosky of W. W. Norton, Jonathan Galassi of FSG, Fiona McCrae of Graywolf Press, and Sara Nelson of Publishers Weekly, as well as agents Ira Silverberg, Irene Skolnick, Nat Sobel, William Clark, and Judith Weber?plus writers such as Jonathan Lethem, Lynne Tillman, and Cole Swenson, and publishing professionals from The Academy of American Poets, Poets & Writers, The Moth, and Beatrice. The cost for the three-day conference is $350?a fraction of the cost for many writers conferences, which rarely provide more than a few hints on how to be a professional writer. Register now?space is limited! _WWW.LWCNYC.ORG_ (http://www.lwcnyc.org/) Cosponsored by Donadio & Olson, The National Book Foundation, New School Graduate Writing Program, Poets & Writers, and Sobel Weber Associates, Inc. CLMP receives support from the National Endowment for the Arts; New York City Department of Cultural Affairs; and New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 9 15:55:50 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:55:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] MYSTIC WORD, life Message-ID: _http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/articles/061009crbo_books1_ (http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/articles/061009crbo_books1) THE MYSTIC WORD The life and work of Hart Crane. by ADAM KIRSCH Issue of 2006-10-09 Posted 2006-10-02 In 1919, the novelist and critic Waldo Frank published ?Our America,? a manifesto for a new generation of American artists. Surveying the cultural situation of the United States, on the brink of what already looked to be the American century, Frank saw ?an untracked wilderness but dimly blazed by the heroic ax of Whitman.? Yet a new generation of trailblazers, he thought, was about to emerge from the complacent materialism of postwar America. Writers like Sherwood Anderson and Van Wyck Brooks?along with masters of new genres like Alfred Stieglitz and even Charlie Chaplin?promised not simply to create a modern art but to renew the spirit of the country: ?In this infancy of our adventure, America is a mystic Word. We go forth all to seek America. And in the seeking we create her.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 9 16:02:09 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:02:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts Master Artists-in-Residence Program Message-ID: <267.3079664e.325c04c1@aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Atlantic Center for the Arts" Subject: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts Master Artists-in-Residence Program Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:29:04 -0400 Size: 15710 URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 9 16:40:01 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:40:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts MasterArtists-in-Residence Program References: <267.3079664e.325c04c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <009501c6ebe3$17cb2290$8f8e3052@ANNY> I could easily stay there for three years... From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:02 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 9 17:27:34 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:27:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham Message-ID: <00b401c6ebe9$bcdd12b0$8f8e3052@ANNY> Thursday, October 19 Wisconsin Book Festival Three Wisconsin Poets: David Graham, Kate Sontag, and Marilyn Taylor Wisconsin Historical Museum-Capitol Square Madison WI 7:00 - 9:00 PM from the WOM-PO list, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 9 17:36:43 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 16:36:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham In-Reply-To: <00b401c6ebe9$bcdd12b0$8f8e3052@ANNY> Message-ID: Thanks for noticing, Anny! Yeah, if anyone's in Wisconsin week after next, the WI Book Festival is quite an extravaganza. Five days of readings, panels, lectures, and other book-related events. Along with the likes of me, there are feature performances by Jane Hamilton, Ted Kooser, Linton Quesi Johnson and others you have heard of. On 10/9/06 4:27 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > > Thursday, October 19 > Wisconsin Book Festival > Three Wisconsin Poets: David Graham, Kate Sontag, and Marilyn Taylor > Wisconsin Historical Museum-Capitol Square > Madison WI > 7:00 - 9:00 PM > > from the WOM-PO list, > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Mon Oct 9 17:39:35 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:39:35 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts Master Artists-in-Residence Program In-Reply-To: <267.3079664e.325c04c1@aol.com> References: <267.3079664e.325c04c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <045125D1-6D95-4984-8ADD-4A93EABE532F@bigpond.com> On 10/10/2006, at 7:02 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > (private room/bath with work desk) I've seen some quirky bathrooms, but for the writer this is a must. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 9 17:38:00 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:38:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] MYSTIC WORD, life References: Message-ID: <002a01c6ebeb$31c89a30$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I love this. He left out Louis Armstrong. Let's strive to keep that emblem alive. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] MYSTIC WORD, life http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/articles/061009crbo_books1 THE MYSTIC WORD The life and work of Hart Crane. by ADAM KIRSCH Issue of 2006-10-09 Posted 2006-10-02 In 1919, the novelist and critic Waldo Frank published ?Our America,? a manifesto for a new generation of American artists. Surveying the cultural situation of the United States, on the brink of what already looked to be the American century, Frank saw ?an untracked wilderness but dimly blazed by the heroic ax of Whitman.? Yet a new generation of trailblazers, he thought, was about to emerge from the complacent materialism of postwar America. Writers like Sherwood Anderson and Van Wyck Brooks?along with masters of new genres like Alfred Stieglitz and even Charlie Chaplin?promised not simply to create a modern art but to renew the spirit of the country: ?In this infancy of our adventure, America is a mystic Word. We go forth all to seek America. And in the seeking we create her.? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 9 17:41:19 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:41:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham References: <00b401c6ebe9$bcdd12b0$8f8e3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <004b01c6ebeb$a8255a60$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Yay, David! On, Wisconsin! ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham Thursday, October 19 Wisconsin Book Festival Three Wisconsin Poets: David Graham, Kate Sontag, and Marilyn Taylor Wisconsin Historical Museum-Capitol Square Madison WI 7:00 - 9:00 PM from the WOM-PO list, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 9 18:00:51 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:00:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts MasterArtists-in-Residence Program References: <267.3079664e.325c04c1@aol.com> <045125D1-6D95-4984-8ADD-4A93EABE532F@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <00e601c6ebee$62ef94d0$8f8e3052@ANNY> :-) I also noticed that! I mean, I thought, one never knows, you know, sudden inspiration and all that sort of things, ... From: Anthony Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:39 PM On 10/10/2006, at 7:02 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: (private room/bath with work desk) I've seen some quirky bathrooms, but for the writer this is a must. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Oct 10 12:06:21 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:06:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Laird & Phillip Levine Message-ID: are appearing at Aldeburgh this year: http://www.aldeburghpoetryfestival.org/html/prog.htm That's Aldeburgh, Norfolk, England. Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Oct 10 12:16:05 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:16:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts MasterArtists-in-Residence Program References: <267.3079664e.325c04c1@aol.com> Message-ID: <010801c6ec87$64102e80$b70b9942@Helen> I stayed there back when I was emerging - studied with Bill Stafford for three weeks. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: 2007 Atlantic Center for the Arts MasterArtists-in-Residence Program ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Oct 10 12:23:26 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:23:26 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Laird & Phillip Levine References: Message-ID: <005f01c6ec88$6cdda410$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Me too (though not reading!). Anyone else on the list going? Roger? Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Nick Laird & Phillip Levine > are appearing at Aldeburgh this year: > > http://www.aldeburghpoetryfestival.org/html/prog.htm > > That's Aldeburgh, Norfolk, England. > > Roger From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 14:24:51 2006 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] travel grants?? In-Reply-To: <200610101600.k9AG06oQ029132@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20061010182451.79671.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, Anyone know of any travel grants for poets invited to do readings somewhere far away? Say, in the range of $3-500 or so? Feel free to backchannel responses if you wish. Thanks. Yours, Alex "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Oct 10 15:13:37 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:13:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "for post-MFA writers" Message-ID: <648208b60610101213pf662591oe462115581608ad0@mail.gmail.com> Filched this from "Notes from the Bell Tower, News from Gargoyle Magazine/Paycock Press and Richard Peabody" (found the brief description amusing): Literary Writers Conference. New York City NOVEMBER 2-4, 2006 A three-day conference for post-MFA writers of literature. Learn how to maneuver the marketplace and forge lasting relationships with editors, agents, and publishers. co-sponsored by CLMP and the New School graduate writing program, plus others. REGISTER NOW TO REGISTER BY PHONE, PLEASE CALL 212.741.9110 FEATURING: Harold Augenbraum (The National Book Foundation). Jill Bialosky (W.W. Norton). Karen Braziller (Persea Books). Alan Burdick. Jonathan Burnham (HarperCollins). Sarah Burnes (The Gernert Company). Robert N. Casper and Jeffrey Lependorf (Council of Literary Magazines and Presses). William Clark (Wm Clark Associates). Nicole Dewey, Alison Rich, and Bill Thomas (Doubleday). Paula Dietz (The Hudson Review). Morgan Entrekin (Grove/Atlantic). Barbara Epler (New Directions). Elliot Figman, Kevin Larimer, Jessie Koester, and Bonnie Marcus (Poets & Writers). Mindy Friddle. Jonathan Galassi and Lorin Stein (Farrar, Straus & Giroux). Alex Glass (Trident Media). Alison Granucci (Blue Flower Arts). Beth Harrison (Spinning Jenny). Bob Hershon (Hanging Loose). Ron Hogan (Beatrice/Galleycat). Brigid Hughes (A Public Space). Tyehimba Jess. Wayne Koestenbaum. Jonathan Lethem. Herb Leibowitz (Parnassus: Poetry in Review). Fiona McCrae (Graywolf). Sarah McNally (McNally Robinson). Sonny Mehta (Knopf). Albert Mobilio (Bookforum). Rose Marie Morse (Morse Partners). Richard Nash (Soft Skull). Maud Newton (Maud Newton). Richard Parks (The Richard Parks Agency). Sara Nelson and Craig Teicher (Publishers Weekly). Robert Polito (New School Graduate Writing Program). David Rakoff. Martha Rhodes (Four Way Books). Robin Beth Schaer (Academy of American Poets). Margarita Shalina (St. Marks Bookshop). Ravi Shankar (Drunken Boat). Rachel Sherman. Ira Silverberg (Donadio & Olson). Irene Skolnick (Irene Skolnick Agency). Marcella Smith (Barnes & Noble). Nat Sobel and Judith Weber (Sobel Weber Associates). Christopher Sorrentino. Amanda Stern (Happy Ending Reading Series). Cole Swenson. Lea Thau (The Moth). Lynne Tillman. Hannah Tinti (One Story). Monique Truong. Jean Valentine. Paul Violi. Sarah Weinman (Galleycat/Confessions of an Idiosyncratic Mind). Michael C. White. Natasha Wimmer. Rebecca Wolff (Fence). Joanna Yas (Open City) http://www.clmp.org/lwc/ -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Oct 10 08:19:30 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 07:19:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham In-Reply-To: <004b01c6ebeb$a8255a60$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: Way to go, David. I know Marilyn Taylor and like her work, so that?s two out of three whose work I?d like to see. I was unaware that Wisconsin had a third poet. Maybe some day you?ll find a fourth and even a fifth hiding among the snowy fields and forests of Wisconsin. Paul On 10/9/06 4:41 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > Yay, David! On, Wisconsin! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Anny Ballardini >> To: New Poetry >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:27 PM >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham >> >> >> Thursday, October 19 >> Wisconsin Book Festival >> Three Wisconsin Poets: David Graham, Kate Sontag, and Marilyn Taylor >> Wisconsin Historical Museum-Capitol Square >> Madison WI >> 7:00 - 9:00 PM >> > from the WOM-PO list, > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 10 15:42:16 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham References: Message-ID: <005301c6eca4$31cf2ad0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: [New-Poetry] Our GrahamThere is no music in all Arkansas. Higgins is gone, taking both his pianos. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Our Graham Way to go, David. I know Marilyn Taylor and like her work, so that's two out of three whose work I'd like to see. I was unaware that Wisconsin had a third poet. Maybe some day you'll find a fourth and even a fifth hiding among the snowy fields and forests of Wisconsin. Paul On 10/9/06 4:41 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: Yay, David! On, Wisconsin! ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham Thursday, October 19 Wisconsin Book Festival Three Wisconsin Poets: David Graham, Kate Sontag, and Marilyn Taylor Wisconsin Historical Museum-Capitol Square Madison WI 7:00 - 9:00 PM from the WOM-PO list, Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Oct 10 09:13:31 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:13:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Our Graham In-Reply-To: <005301c6eca4$31cf2ad0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 10/10/06 2:42 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > There is no music in all Arkansas. > Higgins is gone, taking both his pianos. Yes, but we still have lots of banjos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Tue Oct 10 16:38:23 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:38:23 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] "for post-MFA writers" In-Reply-To: <648208b60610101213pf662591oe462115581608ad0@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60610101213pf662591oe462115581608ad0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9CCA2728-5694-48D6-A89A-4BA1F44922EF@bigpond.com> On 11/10/2006, at 6:13 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Learn how to maneuver the marketplace and forge lasting > relationships with editors, agents, and publishers. John Kinsella must have written this... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Oct 10 16:51:20 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:51:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "for post-MFA writers" In-Reply-To: <648208b60610101213pf662591oe462115581608ad0@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60610101213pf662591oe462115581608ad0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6AE4975C-24B7-4B42-B7C1-D4C07515F110@earthlink.net> Hey, for those of us literary types in NYC, that's just the kids on the block teaching the toddlers how to splash about in somebody's backyard wading pool without getting drownded or otherwise dismembered. Hal "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Oct 10, 2006, at 3:13 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Filched this from "Notes from the Bell Tower, News from Gargoyle > Magazine/Paycock Press and Richard Peabody" (found the brief > description amusing): > > Literary Writers Conference. New York City > NOVEMBER 2-4, 2006 A three-day conference for post-MFA writers of > literature. Learn how to maneuver the marketplace and forge lasting > relationships with editors, agents, and publishers. > co-sponsored by CLMP and the New School graduate writing program, > plus others. > REGISTER NOW TO REGISTER BY PHONE, PLEASE CALL 212.741.9110 > FEATURING: Harold Augenbraum (The National Book Foundation). Jill > Bialosky (W.W. Norton). Karen Braziller (Persea Books). Alan Burdick. > Jonathan Burnham (HarperCollins). Sarah Burnes (The Gernert Company). > Robert N. Casper and Jeffrey Lependorf (Council of Literary Magazines > and Presses). William Clark (Wm Clark Associates). Nicole Dewey, > Alison Rich, and Bill Thomas (Doubleday). Paula Dietz (The Hudson > Review). Morgan Entrekin (Grove/Atlantic). Barbara Epler (New > Directions). Elliot Figman, Kevin Larimer, Jessie Koester, and Bonnie > Marcus (Poets & Writers). Mindy Friddle. Jonathan Galassi and Lorin > Stein (Farrar, Straus & Giroux). Alex Glass (Trident Media). Alison > Granucci (Blue Flower Arts). Beth Harrison (Spinning Jenny). Bob > Hershon (Hanging Loose). Ron Hogan (Beatrice/Galleycat). Brigid Hughes > (A Public Space). Tyehimba Jess. Wayne Koestenbaum. Jonathan Lethem. > Herb Leibowitz (Parnassus: Poetry in Review). Fiona McCrae (Graywolf). > Sarah McNally (McNally Robinson). Sonny Mehta (Knopf). Albert Mobilio > (Bookforum). Rose Marie Morse (Morse Partners). Richard Nash (Soft > Skull). Maud Newton (Maud Newton). Richard Parks (The Richard Parks > Agency). Sara Nelson and Craig Teicher (Publishers Weekly). Robert > Polito (New School Graduate Writing Program). David Rakoff. Martha > Rhodes (Four Way Books). Robin Beth Schaer (Academy of American > Poets). Margarita Shalina (St. Marks Bookshop). Ravi Shankar (Drunken > Boat). Rachel Sherman. Ira Silverberg (Donadio & Olson). Irene > Skolnick (Irene Skolnick Agency). Marcella Smith (Barnes & Noble). Nat > Sobel and Judith Weber (Sobel Weber Associates). Christopher > Sorrentino. Amanda Stern (Happy Ending Reading Series). Cole Swenson. > Lea Thau (The Moth). Lynne Tillman. Hannah Tinti (One Story). Monique > Truong. Jean Valentine. Paul Violi. Sarah Weinman > (Galleycat/Confessions of an Idiosyncratic Mind). Michael C. White. > Natasha Wimmer. Rebecca Wolff (Fence). Joanna Yas (Open City) > http://www.clmp.org/lwc/ > > > -- Jim > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Oct 11 00:21:26 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 06:21:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] "for post-MFA writers" References: <648208b60610101213pf662591oe462115581608ad0@mail.gmail.com> <6AE4975C-24B7-4B42-B7C1-D4C07515F110@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002101c6ecec$b8593990$45ac3452@ANNY> The N.Y. literary types are the ones who were able to see, it must be the air. From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:51 PM > Hey, for those of us literary types in NYC, that's just the kids on > the block teaching the toddlers how to splash about in somebody's > backyard wading pool without getting drownded or otherwise > dismembered. > > Hal > > "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, > obscures vision." > --Charlie Chan > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Oct 10, 2006, at 3:13 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > >> Filched this from "Notes from the Bell Tower, News from Gargoyle >> Magazine/Paycock Press and Richard Peabody" (found the brief >> description amusing): >> >> Literary Writers Conference. New York City >> NOVEMBER 2-4, 2006 A three-day conference for post-MFA writers of >> literature. Learn how to maneuver the marketplace and forge lasting >> relationships with editors, agents, and publishers. >> co-sponsored by CLMP and the New School graduate writing program, plus >> others. >> REGISTER NOW TO REGISTER BY PHONE, PLEASE CALL 212.741.9110 >> FEATURING: Harold Augenbraum (The National Book Foundation). Jill >> Bialosky (W.W. Norton). Karen Braziller (Persea Books). Alan Burdick. >> Jonathan Burnham (HarperCollins). Sarah Burnes (The Gernert Company). >> Robert N. Casper and Jeffrey Lependorf (Council of Literary Magazines >> and Presses). William Clark (Wm Clark Associates). Nicole Dewey, >> Alison Rich, and Bill Thomas (Doubleday). Paula Dietz (The Hudson >> Review). Morgan Entrekin (Grove/Atlantic). Barbara Epler (New >> Directions). Elliot Figman, Kevin Larimer, Jessie Koester, and Bonnie >> Marcus (Poets & Writers). Mindy Friddle. Jonathan Galassi and Lorin >> Stein (Farrar, Straus & Giroux). Alex Glass (Trident Media). Alison >> Granucci (Blue Flower Arts). Beth Harrison (Spinning Jenny). Bob >> Hershon (Hanging Loose). Ron Hogan (Beatrice/Galleycat). Brigid Hughes >> (A Public Space). Tyehimba Jess. Wayne Koestenbaum. Jonathan Lethem. >> Herb Leibowitz (Parnassus: Poetry in Review). Fiona McCrae (Graywolf). >> Sarah McNally (McNally Robinson). Sonny Mehta (Knopf). Albert Mobilio >> (Bookforum). Rose Marie Morse (Morse Partners). Richard Nash (Soft >> Skull). Maud Newton (Maud Newton). Richard Parks (The Richard Parks >> Agency). Sara Nelson and Craig Teicher (Publishers Weekly). Robert >> Polito (New School Graduate Writing Program). David Rakoff. Martha >> Rhodes (Four Way Books). Robin Beth Schaer (Academy of American >> Poets). Margarita Shalina (St. Marks Bookshop). Ravi Shankar (Drunken >> Boat). Rachel Sherman. Ira Silverberg (Donadio & Olson). Irene >> Skolnick (Irene Skolnick Agency). Marcella Smith (Barnes & Noble). Nat >> Sobel and Judith Weber (Sobel Weber Associates). Christopher >> Sorrentino. Amanda Stern (Happy Ending Reading Series). Cole Swenson. >> Lea Thau (The Moth). Lynne Tillman. Hannah Tinti (One Story). Monique >> Truong. Jean Valentine. Paul Violi. Sarah Weinman >> (Galleycat/Confessions of an Idiosyncratic Mind). Michael C. White. >> Natasha Wimmer. Rebecca Wolff (Fence). Joanna Yas (Open City) >> http://www.clmp.org/lwc/ >> >> >> -- Jim >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Oct 12 03:47:06 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:47:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Coles from the W.'s Almanac Message-ID: <006001c6edd2$9d8e46a0$cbdf3652@ANNY> Robert Coles said, "We should look inward and think about the meaning of our life and its purposes, lest we do it in 20 or 30 years and it's too late." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 13 07:12:38 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:12:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?D=E9rive_by_Bruna_Mori?= Message-ID: <004d01c6eeb8$810f1400$c7af3252@ANNY> A Special Pre-Release Offer For: D?rive poems by Bruna Mori paintings by Matthew Kinney ISBN-10: 0-9709179-6-1 ISBN-13: 978-0-9709179-5-9 Release date: November 2006 Distributors: Small Press Distribution, Amazon.com & www.MeritagePress.com For more info: MeritagePress at aol.com Relevant categories: Poetry. Creative Nonfiction. Urban Studies. Cultural Studies. Women's Studies. Meritage Press is delighted to announce the release of Bruna Mori's long-awaited first poetry collection, D?rive, which also presents reproductions of paintings by New York-based artist Matthew Kinney. Drawn by the New York cityscape and encounters found there, physical trajectories are mapped in words and sumi-ink. Poems that depict an ever-shifting subjectivity within the urban sphere are interspersed with paintings of architectures dis/assembling. >From Second Avenue to 242nd Street, spanning mahjongg parlors and halfway houses, "Bruna Mori creates a lyrical alchemy of the debris and mythology of New Amsterdam (Brenda Coultas)." "Mori rides the New York City subway to its terminus, and in so doing reminds us that those oft forgotten souls who inhabit urban outreaches are adamant bridges between their old world and new (Martine Bellen)." The book honors (and strays from) the Situationist theory of the d?rive, or "drift"--where one or more persons during a certain period let themselves be attracted to the terrain, d?tourning one's steps on noncapitalized time. Through drift, Mori "found" collaborator Matthew Kinney painting the skyline in sumi-ink on a torn-edged canvas--a carryover from his skate-punk days when he regularly made impromptu washes on cardboard kept in his backpack. Not long after, they decided to combine their work. ************************* To celebrate D?rive's release, Meritage Press is pleased to offer a Release Special through November 30, 2006. For $11.00, you can obtain a copy of D?rive- a savings off the book's retail price of $14.95-plus free shipping/handling to U.S. addresses. Just send a check made out to "Meritage Press" to: Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Road St. Helena, CA 94574 ************************* MORE ADVANCE WORDS: "Mori is not only a cogent observer of life and its environs but a magnanimous participant who shines a light on the profound beauty of no-name pizza parlors and sweaty flesh that bears green tattoos of the heart." -Martine Bellen "D?rive is an animated guidebook to the boroughs of my city and should be required reading for travelers and residents alike." -Brenda Coultas "Much to admire. In the range of experiences detailed and the ever-shifting vantage point, the city and its inhabitants emerge as vastly various and yet inextricably bound to one another." -l? thi diem th?y "A deft poetic journey through the fissures and ironies of city life." -Norman M. Klein Bruna Mori was born in Japan and has lived primarily in the United States--mostly in New York, and Louisiana and California. Tergiversation (Ahadada Books, 2006) and The Approximations (2nd Avenue Poetry, 2006) are her first chapbooks, and D?rive is her first book. A writer and editor, she teaches at Art Center College of Design and the Southern California Institute of Architecture. Her BA and MFA degrees were completed at the University of California, San Diego and Milton Avery Graduate School of the Arts at Bard College. Matthew Kinney was born in Georgetown, Massachusetts. A visual artist with an emphasis on painting and sculpture, he presently has a studio space at Spire Studios in Beacon, New York; also an advocate of sustainable agriculture, he works at Windfall Farms in Montgomery. He attended Pratt Institute in Brooklyn and The School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. ************************* For more info, please feel free to contact Eileen Tabios at MeritagePress at aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 10:38:58 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:38:58 -0700 Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_[New-Poetry]_D=E9rive_by_Bruna_Mori?= In-Reply-To: <004d01c6eeb8$810f1400$c7af3252@ANNY> References: <004d01c6eeb8$810f1400$c7af3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60610130738u4f7e52c1jc6f01f4dcb38cb47@mail.gmail.com> "The book honors (and strays from) the Situationist theory of the d?rive, or "drift"--where one or more persons during a certain period let themselves be attracted to the terrain . . ." Gad. That happens to me all the time! Parks, hills, valleys, streams, mountains, deserts . . . I ought to write a book about it, but I drift . . . - Jim On 10/13/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > A Special Pre-Release Offer For: > > D?rive > poems by Bruna Mori > paintings by Matthew Kinney > ISBN-10: 0-9709179-6-1 > ISBN-13: 978-0-9709179-5-9 > Release date: November 2006 > Distributors: Small Press Distribution, Amazon.com & www.MeritagePress.com > For more info: MeritagePress at aol.com > > Relevant categories: Poetry. Creative Nonfiction. Urban Studies. Cultural > Studies. Women's Studies. > > Meritage Press is delighted to announce the release of Bruna Mori's > long-awaited first poetry collection, D?rive, which also presents > reproductions of > paintings by New York-based artist Matthew Kinney. Drawn by the New York > cityscape > and encounters found there, physical trajectories are mapped in words and > sumi-ink. Poems that depict an ever-shifting subjectivity within the urban > sphere > are interspersed with paintings of architectures dis/assembling. > > From Second Avenue to 242nd Street, spanning mahjongg parlors and halfway > houses, "Bruna Mori creates a lyrical alchemy of the debris and mythology of > New > Amsterdam (Brenda Coultas)." "Mori rides the New York City subway to its > terminus, and in so doing reminds us that those oft forgotten souls who > inhabit > urban outreaches are adamant bridges between their old world and new > (Martine > Bellen)." > > The book honors (and strays from) the Situationist theory of the d?rive, or > "drift"--where one or more persons during a certain period let themselves be > attracted to the terrain, d?tourning one's steps on noncapitalized time. > Through > drift, Mori "found" collaborator Matthew Kinney painting the skyline in > sumi-ink on a torn-edged canvas--a carryover from his skate-punk days when > he > regularly made impromptu washes on cardboard kept in his backpack. Not long > after, > they decided to combine their work. > > ************************* > > To celebrate D?rive's release, Meritage Press is pleased to offer a Release > Special through November 30, 2006. For $11.00, you can obtain a copy of > D?rive? > a savings off the book's retail price of $14.95?plus free shipping/handling > to > U.S. addresses. Just send a check made out to "Meritage Press" to: > > Eileen Tabios > Meritage Press > 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Road > St. Helena, CA 94574 > > ************************* > > MORE ADVANCE WORDS: > "Mori is not only a cogent observer of life and its environs but a > magnanimous participant who shines a light on the profound beauty of no-name > pizza > parlors and sweaty flesh that bears green tattoos of the heart." > ?Martine Bellen > > "D?rive is an animated guidebook to the boroughs of my city and should be > required reading for travelers and residents alike." > ?Brenda Coultas > > "Much to admire. In the range of experiences detailed and the ever-shifting > vantage point, the city and its inhabitants emerge as vastly various and yet > inextricably bound to one another." > ?l? thi diem th?y > > "A deft poetic journey through the fissures and ironies of city life." > ?Norman M. Klein > > Bruna Mori was born in Japan and has lived primarily in the United > States--mostly in New York, and Louisiana and California. Tergiversation > (Ahadada Books, > 2006) and The Approximations (2nd Avenue Poetry, 2006) are her first > chapbooks, and D?rive is her first book. A writer and editor, she teaches at > Art > Center College of Design and the Southern California Institute of > Architecture. Her > BA and MFA degrees were completed at the University of California, San Diego > and Milton Avery Graduate School of the Arts at Bard College. > > Matthew Kinney was born in Georgetown, Massachusetts. A visual artist with > an > emphasis on painting and sculpture, he presently has a studio space at Spire > Studios in Beacon, New York; also an advocate of sustainable agriculture, he > works at Windfall Farms in Montgomery. He attended Pratt Institute in > Brooklyn > and The School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. > > > ************************* > For more info, please feel free to contact Eileen Tabios at > MeritagePress at aol.com > > ________________________________ > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 18:54:17 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:54:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees Message-ID: <731bb17a0610131554n70bf00c9r97909bf39910c574@mail.gmail.com> I don't think that anyone has posted this yet. Thoughts? Poetry Louise Gl?ck, Averno (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) H.L. Hix, Chromatic (Etruscan Press) Ben Lerner, Angle of Yaw (Copper Canyon Press) Nathaniel Mackey, Splay Anthem (New Directions) James McMichael, Capacity (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) Here are your friendly neighborhood judges: James Longenbach (chair), Jimmy Santiago Baca, Li-Young Lee, Claudia Rankine, and C.D. Wright. http://www.authorlink.com/news/item/1098 Jeff Newberry -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Oct 13 20:07:45 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:07:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Gilbert's UK selected Message-ID: I was doing an intro in Northampton for the new book I published by Margaret Lloyd and I heard that Jack's book is out from Bloodaxe... _http://www.bloodaxebooks.com/personpage.asp?author=Jack+Gilbert_ (http://www.bloodaxebooks.com/personpage.asp?author=Jack+Gilbert) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Oct 13 20:10:20 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:10:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] "for post-MFA writers" Message-ID: In a message dated 10/10/2006 4:51:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: "Theory, like mist on eyeglasses, obscures vision." --Charlie Chan Like this...Someone (if only a genre film character) who knew well his word origins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Oct 13 20:16:51 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:16:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Spaces Still Available for Literary Writers Conference] Message-ID: In a message dated 10/10/2006 3:58:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, snape at english.umass.edu writes: Dear Writer, We already have over 100 registrants for The Literary Writers Conference (LWC}NYC) November 2?4 at The New School in New York City, but there are still spaces available! Register now at _WWW.LWCNYC.ORG_ (http://www.lwcnyc.org/) and forge lasting relationships with editors, agents, and publishers. Practical-minded and aimed at engaging writers beyond ?How to Get an Agent,? LWC}NYC features programs such as Jonathan Lethem in discussion with his publishing team, The Academy of American Poets and The Moth on how to give an effective reading, top agents and editors with their writers revealing editing and marketing strategies, and so much more! Presenters include a ?who?s who? of the publishing community, including editors Sonny Mehta of Knopf, Johnathan Burnham of HarperCollins, Karen Braziller of Persea Books, Jill Bialosky of W. W. Norton, Jonathan Galassi of FSG, Fiona McCrae of Graywolf Press, and Sara Nelson of Publishers Weekly, as well as agents Ira Silverberg, Irene Skolnick, Nat Sobel, William Clark, and Judith Weber?plus writers such as Monique Truong, Lynne Tillman, and Cole Swenson, plus publishing professionals from Poets & Writers, the Happy Ending Reading Series, Bookforum, Beatrice, and others. For more information, a schedule of events, and to register, visit _WWW.LWCNYC.ORG_ (http://www.lwcnyc.org/) P.S. If you've already registered, we look forward to seeing you soon! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Oct 13 22:06:46 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:06:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees Message-ID: <416.b86854b.3261a036@aol.com> Some odd choices. Looks like Gluck's year although I've always liked McMichael's work. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Oct 14 11:15:47 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:15:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees References: <731bb17a0610131554n70bf00c9r97909bf39910c574@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f801c6efa3$a0a1e4f0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Poetic illiterate that I am, I'm not familiar with any of them except Gluck. So here's a start for any of those who share my ignorance -- H. L. Hix. Chapped Hand Blues Her hands stayed chapped all the time . just like the woman who inhabited my dreams . It was how I knew Her hair the next day . copied the dream-woman's hair from the night before . The dream-woman drew me down in the barn behind a house . she loved as a girl but I never saw . An owl perched in the rafters watching with her weightless eyes . It was how I knew . Evidence flattens . A brittle browning flower shadows its matching bruises . on facing pages to say someone young . loved me once almost enough Black and white the soldier smiles . who killed my mother before I was born . who looks exactly like me . I try to forget my dreams . but still they recur a woman inhabits them . the owl in the barn anything I need to know . she says with her eyes we wait together . for a fire to burn the barn so I can see it . shining in her weightless eyes Her hands stay chapped all the time . Whatever I know comes from the visions she gives . that I don't believe Empty Room Blues Wall clinging to the burren . flat stone on flat stone enclosing nothing . only measuring the mist scribbled signature . half-sister to the river Bright orange range fire . rewriting the horizon yellow bales of hay . scattered across a green field graying rows of fenceposts . warping loose their nails knothole in one board . robin cocked on another . The elders still write . or rather what they wrote once remains legible . two-hundred eighth-note blackbirds inscribe a phone line . icicles mark a gutter How long ago did they die . who remembers them what can remembering mean . but to read their hand . It began in a body . that first character one soot-stained index finger . swiped across elkhide hand holding a bone . idly burrowing in dirt fist furying flint . forth and back across sandstone meditative tap and swirl . of bare feet in dust one body beyond itself . branding another spoke to bodies yet unborn . and we understood . As termites winnow timber . patiently to dust as long rains incite hillsides . as wind sculpts sandstone you my hallowed hollowed me . You might have saved me if love belonged underground . attending echoes of occasional droplets . dying in its rooms I like these. I like "Chapped Hands Blues" better -- it keeps surprising me, and moving forward, and I'm not sure "Empty Rooms Blues" always does. I like poetry that tells a story, but not the kind of story prose could tell. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 6:54 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees I don't think that anyone has posted this yet. Thoughts? Poetry Louise Gl?ck, Averno (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) H.L. Hix, Chromatic (Etruscan Press) Ben Lerner, Angle of Yaw (Copper Canyon Press) Nathaniel Mackey, Splay Anthem (New Directions) James McMichael, Capacity (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) Here are your friendly neighborhood judges: James Longenbach (chair), Jimmy Santiago Baca, Li-Young Lee, Claudia Rankine, and C.D. Wright. http://www.authorlink.com/news/item/1098 Jeff Newberry -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cvoisine at nmsu.edu Sat Oct 14 11:20:38 2006 From: cvoisine at nmsu.edu (cvoisine at nmsu.edu) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:20:38 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees In-Reply-To: <00f801c6efa3$a0a1e4f0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <731bb17a0610131554n70bf00c9r97909bf39910c574@mail.gmail.com> <00f801c6efa3$a0a1e4f0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <1160839238.45310046b7453@webmail.nmsu.edu> a note from a lurker: while I only read the book nominated in draft form, it's philosophical and historical rather than the contemporary norm of autobiographical or post- confessional. McMichael is the author of "Four Good Things" which is one of the masterpieces of contemporary poetry for combining both these modes. It's about, of all things, Pasedena. Please check it out. C Quoting TheOldMole : > Poetic illiterate that I am, I'm not familiar with any of them except Gluck. > So here's a start for any of those who share my ignorance -- H. L. Hix. > > > Chapped Hand Blues > > Her hands stayed chapped all the time . just like the woman > who inhabited my dreams . It was how I knew > Her hair the next day . copied the dream-woman's hair > from the night before . The dream-woman drew me down > in the barn behind a house . she loved as a girl > but I never saw . An owl perched in the rafters > watching with her weightless eyes . It was how I knew > > . > > Evidence flattens . A brittle browning flower > shadows its matching bruises . on facing pages > to say someone young . loved me once almost enough > Black and white the soldier smiles . who killed my mother > before I was born . who looks exactly like me > > . > > I try to forget my dreams . but still they recur > a woman inhabits them . the owl in the barn > anything I need to know . she says with her eyes > we wait together . for a fire to burn the barn > so I can see it . shining in her weightless eyes > Her hands stay chapped all the time . Whatever I know > comes from the visions she gives . that I don't believe > > > > > > Empty Room Blues > > Wall clinging to the burren . flat stone on flat stone > enclosing nothing . only measuring the mist > scribbled signature . half-sister to the river > Bright orange range fire . rewriting the horizon > yellow bales of hay . scattered across a green field > graying rows of fenceposts . warping loose their nails > knothole in one board . robin cocked on another > > . > > The elders still write . or rather what they wrote once > remains legible . two-hundred eighth-note blackbirds > inscribe a phone line . icicles mark a gutter > How long ago did they die . who remembers them > what can remembering mean . but to read their hand > > . > > It began in a body . that first character > one soot-stained index finger . swiped across elkhide > hand holding a bone . idly burrowing in dirt > fist furying flint . forth and back across sandstone > meditative tap and swirl . of bare feet in dust > one body beyond itself . branding another > spoke to bodies yet unborn . and we understood > > . > > As termites winnow timber . patiently to dust > as long rains incite hillsides . as wind sculpts sandstone > you my hallowed hollowed me . You might have saved me > if love belonged underground . attending echoes > of occasional droplets . dying in its rooms > > > > > > I like these. I like "Chapped Hands Blues" better -- it keeps surprising me, > and moving forward, and I'm not sure "Empty Rooms Blues" always does. I like > poetry that tells a story, but not the kind of story prose could tell. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 6:54 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees > > > I don't think that anyone has posted this yet. > > Thoughts? > > > Poetry > > Louise Gl?ck, Averno (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) > > H.L. Hix, Chromatic (Etruscan Press) > > Ben Lerner, Angle of Yaw (Copper Canyon Press) > > Nathaniel Mackey, Splay Anthem (New Directions) > > James McMichael, Capacity (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) > > Here are your friendly neighborhood judges: James Longenbach (chair), > Jimmy Santiago Baca, Li-Young Lee, Claudia Rankine, and C.D. Wright. > > http://www.authorlink.com/news/item/1098 > > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." > --Johnny Cash > > http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Sat Oct 14 13:34:01 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:34:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? Message-ID: I recently ran across a post I made to CAP-L in early 1997. I had the impression at the time that the CAP-L list was at least a year old when I first subbed. Does anyone have an approximate date for when CAP-L first turned on? (NewPoetry, as some of you know, formed out of a old CAP-L subscriber list that I'd saved before CAP-L went dark.) So I'm curious about when things got started...and somewhere along the way we probably missed a 10-year anniversary of sorts. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Sat Oct 14 14:27:09 2006 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:27:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0610131554n70bf00c9r97909bf39910c574@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c6efbe$6245e3d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Mackey is a terrific poet. One of the very best. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 5:54 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees I don't think that anyone has posted this yet. Thoughts? Poetry Louise Gl?ck, Averno (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) H.L. Hix, Chromatic (Etruscan Press) Ben Lerner, Angle of Yaw (Copper Canyon Press) Nathaniel Mackey, Splay Anthem (New Directions) James McMichael, Capacity (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) Here are your friendly neighborhood judges: James Longenbach (chair), Jimmy Santiago Baca, Li-Young Lee, Claudia Rankine, and C.D. Wright. http://www.authorlink.com/news/item/1098 Jeff Newberry -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Oct 14 14:38:44 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:38:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Three Quarks Daily Poetry and Culture links Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Peter Nicholson Subject: Three Quarks Daily Poetry and Culture links Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 19:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Size: 2585 URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 14 14:57:08 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:57:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees References: <000001c6efbe$6245e3d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <01c701c6efc2$8ca78300$89aa3852@ANNY> I have this here, but I have problems in understanding what I wrote: http://www.moriapoetry.com/ballardini.html Just to say that Mackey is better, ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:27 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees Mackey is a terrific poet. One of the very best. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Oct 14 15:01:03 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:01:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? References: Message-ID: <017601c6efc3$1b5b7e80$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> God, I think I was there when it started. Frightening thought. First posts were by Alfred Corn and David Slavitt. But I can't remember when. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? I recently ran across a post I made to CAP-L in early 1997. I had the impression at the time that the CAP-L list was at least a year old when I first subbed. Does anyone have an approximate date for when CAP-L first turned on? (NewPoetry, as some of you know, formed out of a old CAP-L subscriber list that I'd saved before CAP-L went dark.) So I'm curious about when things got started...and somewhere along the way we probably missed a 10-year anniversary of sorts. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Oct 14 15:04:08 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:04:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees References: <000001c6efbe$6245e3d0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <018001c6efc3$86c44a30$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> taking them one at a time...Here's Ben Lerner: from The Lichtenberg Figures by Ben Lerner * We must retract our offerings, burnt as they are. We must recall our lines of verse like faulty tires. We must flay the curatoriat, invest our sackcloth, and enter the academy single file. Poetry has yet to emerge. The image is no substitute. The image is an anecdote in the mouth of a stillborn. And not reflection, with its bad infinitude, nor religion, with its eighth of mushrooms can bring orgasm to orgasm like poetry. As a policy, we are terribly sorry. But sorry doesn't cut it. We must ask you to remove your shoes, your lenses, your teeth. We must ask you to sob openly. If it is any consolation, we admire the early work of John Ashbery. If it is any consolation, you won't feel a thing. * It is always already winter. Raccoons open each other for warmth. The poor live under the bridge outside of time. If we can speak of the poor. If you can call that a bridge. At a fashionable retrospective, a woman soils her prewar dress. In order to avoid saying "I," the author eats incessantly. The author experiences pleasure from a great distance, like the bombing of an embassy. In the business district, fire is exchanged. The media butcher the suspect's name. Every weekend, the law gets laid, while these abstractions, hung like horses, attend their semiformals stag. The last census counts several selves inhabiting this gaze, mostly unemployed. * I invite you to think creatively about politics in the age of histamine. I invite you to think creatively about politics given men as they are: asthmatic, out of tune and time, out of bounds and practice. I invite you to run your mouth, to run your hands through my thin hair like a theme. I invite you to lean your head against my better judgment. Once uncertainty ran through these sketches like a Lab. Now, of my early work, a critic has said: "It was open, so I let myself in." Ladies and gentlemen, tonight's weather has been canceled. The Academy has condemned the Blue Tit. The poor are stealing the saltlicks. Grenades luxuriate in the garden of decommissioned adjectives. It is the Sabbath. I must invite you to lay down your knowledge claims, to lay them down slowly and with great sadness. Given men as they are, women pack snow into jars for the summer ahead. Given men as they are, the trees surrender. * Now to defend a bit of structure: beeline, skyline, dateline, saline- now to torch your effluent shanty so the small rain down can rain. I'm so eastern that my Ph.D. has edible tubers, my heart a hibachi oiled with rapeseed. I'm so western that my Ph.D. can bang and bank all ball game, bringing the crowd to its feet and the critics to their knees. Politically speaking, I'm kind of an animal. I feed the ducks duck meat in duck sauce when I walk to clown school in my clown shoes. The Germans call me Ludwig, bearer of estrus, the northern kingdom's professional apologist. The Germans call me Benji, the radical browser, alcoholic groundskeeper of the Providence Little League. All readers of poetry are Germans, are virgins. All readers of poetry sicken me. You, with your Soviet Ph.D. and Afghani tie pin. You with your penis stuck in a bottle. And yes, of course, I sicken me, with my endless and obvious examples of the profound cultural mediocrity of the American bourgeoisie. * I'm going to kill the president. I promise. I surrender. I'm sorry. I'm gay. I'm pregnant. I'm dying. I'm not your father. You're fired. Fire. I forgot your birthday. You will have to lose the leg. She was asking for it. It ran right under the car. It looked like a gun. It's contagious. She's with God now. Help me. I don't have a problem. I've swallowed a bottle of aspirin. I'm a doctor. I'm leaving you. I love you. Fuck you. I'll change. ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip Fox To: 'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views' Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:27 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees Mackey is a terrific poet. One of the very best. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Newberry Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 5:54 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Award Nominees I don't think that anyone has posted this yet. Thoughts? Poetry Louise Gl?ck, Averno (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) H.L. Hix, Chromatic (Etruscan Press) Ben Lerner, Angle of Yaw (Copper Canyon Press) Nathaniel Mackey, Splay Anthem (New Directions) James McMichael, Capacity (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) Here are your friendly neighborhood judges: James Longenbach (chair), Jimmy Santiago Baca, Li-Young Lee, Claudia Rankine, and C.D. Wright. http://www.authorlink.com/news/item/1098 Jeff Newberry -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at starve.org Sat Oct 14 15:55:56 2006 From: tony at starve.org (Tony Trigilio) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:55:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? Message-ID: <453140CC.9020302@starve.org> I came up against this same question awhile back, when I needed to find an archive for CAP-L. I eventually found an archive page . . . itself archived at: http://web.archive.org/web/20010513012828/myweb.packet.net/schaeff/capl/welcome.html Problem was, I couldn't get anything from the individual links on this page. So I couldn't hunt down the original post I wanted. If anyone knows of a working archive for CAP-L, please backchannel me. As for the origins of CAP-L, the page above archives CAP-L messages from July 1995 onward, but also notes that it's "missing the first couple of years' archives." But I did find an old Humanities List posting from December 1994, saying that CAP-L had just started (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v08/0342.html). Best, Tony > I recently ran across a post I made to CAP-L in early 1997. > I had the impression at the time that the CAP-L list was > at least a year old when I first subbed. Does anyone have > an approximate date for when CAP-L first turned on? (NewPoetry, > as some of you know, formed out of a old CAP-L subscriber list > that I'd saved before CAP-L went dark.) So I'm curious about > when things got started...and somewhere along the way we probably > missed a 10-year anniversary of sorts. > Finnegan From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 14 16:13:44 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:13:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? References: <453140CC.9020302@starve.org> Message-ID: <021801c6efcd$404ead70$89aa3852@ANNY> You should be able to track it down with the WayBackMachine: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Trigilio" To: Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: re: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? >I came up against this same question awhile back, when I needed to find an >archive for CAP-L. I eventually found an archive page . . . itself >archived at: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20010513012828/myweb.packet.net/schaeff/capl/welcome.html > > Problem was, I couldn't get anything from the individual links on this > page. So I couldn't hunt down the original post I wanted. If anyone > knows of a working archive for CAP-L, please backchannel me. > > As for the origins of CAP-L, the page above archives CAP-L messages from > July 1995 onward, but also notes that it's "missing the first couple of > years' archives." > > But I did find an old Humanities List posting from December 1994, saying > that CAP-L had just started > (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v08/0342.html). > > Best, > Tony > > >> I recently ran across a post I made to CAP-L in early 1997. >> I had the impression at the time that the CAP-L list was >> at least a year old when I first subbed. Does anyone have >> an approximate date for when CAP-L first turned on? (NewPoetry, >> as some of you know, formed out of a old CAP-L subscriber list that I'd >> saved before CAP-L went dark.) So I'm curious about when things got >> started...and somewhere along the way we probably >> missed a 10-year anniversary of sorts. >> Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 16:28:26 2006 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] blog launch In-Reply-To: <200610141600.k9EG05oQ030022@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20061014202826.76563.qmail@web35506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, My blog is now open at alexdickow.net/blog/. Not much there yet, but will soon post more, including some old poems I don't know what to do with. A website with more info, links, etc will be up "soon". Amicalement, Alex "Ce dont le poete souffre le plus dans ses rapports avec le monde, c'est du manque de justice _interne_. La vitre-cloaque de Caliban derriere laquelle les yeux tout-puissants et sensibles d'Ariel s'irritent." Rene Char, _Partage Formel_, fragment II From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Oct 14 21:24:54 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:24:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? In-Reply-To: <453140CC.9020302@starve.org> References: <453140CC.9020302@starve.org> Message-ID: <79E17E64-5E7B-4CC3-A728-E0CD583CE3ED@ripon.edu> On Oct 14, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Tony Trigilio wrote: > But I did find an old Humanities List posting from December 1994, > saying that CAP-L had just started (http:// > lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v08/0342.html). > > Best, > Tony The earliest thing I can find on my current hard drive is a copy of a post I sent in February 1995. I'm pretty sure that I was lurking a bit before posting, and also that I was present on or near the creation of the list, so December 1994 sounds about right. Somewhere I have some old floppy disks, probably utterly unreadable now, with the original listserv instructions, etc. My first post was apparently a quotation from a Wendell Berry essay, and I bet I've posted that same quotation half a dozen times in the past decade. . . . ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Oct 15 14:18:23 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 14:18:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? References: <453140CC.9020302@starve.org> <79E17E64-5E7B-4CC3-A728-E0CD583CE3ED@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <001001c6f086$4d4af600$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Hey, post it again. Who's counting? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:24 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? On Oct 14, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Tony Trigilio wrote: But I did find an old Humanities List posting from December 1994, saying that CAP-L had just started (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v08/0342.html). Best, Tony The earliest thing I can find on my current hard drive is a copy of a post I sent in February 1995. I'm pretty sure that I was lurking a bit before posting, and also that I was present on or near the creation of the list, so December 1994 sounds about right. Somewhere I have some old floppy disks, probably utterly unreadable now, with the original listserv instructions, etc. My first post was apparently a quotation from a Wendell Berry essay, and I bet I've posted that same quotation half a dozen times in the past decade. . . . ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Oct 15 20:17:05 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:17:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] CAP-L began in 199X? References: <453140CC.9020302@starve.org><79E17E64-5E7B-4CC3-A728-E0CD583CE3ED@ripon.edu> <001001c6f086$4d4af600$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <018001c6f0b8$6a691c80$fcee3652@ANNY> That might be me who wants to show that I am smart... I remember remarking once that David had already posted a poem. Apologies and yes, please send it over again, I cannot remember this quotation, thank you, Anny From: TheOldMole Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 8:18 PM Hey, post it again. Who's counting? From: David Graham Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:24 PM On Oct 14, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Tony Trigilio wrote: But I did find an old Humanities List posting from December 1994, saying that CAP-L had just started (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v08/0342.html). Best, Tony The earliest thing I can find on my current hard drive is a copy of a post I sent in February 1995. I'm pretty sure that I was lurking a bit before posting, and also that I was present on or near the creation of the list, so December 1994 sounds about right. Somewhere I have some old floppy disks, probably utterly unreadable now, with the original listserv instructions, etc. My first post was apparently a quotation from a Wendell Berry essay, and I bet I've posted that same quotation half a dozen times in the past decade. . . . ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 07:21:42 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 04:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog - UK syllables, American ears Message-ID: <20061016112142.28961.qmail@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS U.K. syllables, American ears The Age of Huts (compleat) The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley now in two volumes A novel in the form of blurbs? Lunar Follies by Gilbert Sorrentino Style guides and long lines on the web A response to Elizabeth Treadwell Battlestar Galactica -- replaying Iraq on the colony of New Caprica Prose and verse seen not as oppositional poles in the new chapbook by Aaron Kunin Some links to visual arts and especially the issue of women visual artists The poems of Gael Turnbull a major ???New American poet??? who wasn???t American at all The coming closure of Coliseum Books Neo-modernism in the novellas of Debra Di Blasi John Ashbery reading in a coffee house in Providence R.I. A Flarf fest in Carlisle, PA The poetics of Minton Sparks Southern story teller The songs of Dave Carter (and the singer/songwriter tradition) The enigmatic poetics of Beverly Dahlen http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Mon Oct 16 11:02:21 2006 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:02:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso8859-1?q?E=B7ratio?= call for poetry submissions Message-ID: <200610161502.k9GF2Ljd001697@mail20.atl.registeredsite.com> E? E?ratio http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com E?ratio is reading for accomplished poetry for issue eight, the Fall 2006 issue. The deadline is November 27, 2006. See the Contact Page for guidelines before sending (and have a peek at E?ratio's new design): http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/contact.html No simultaneous submissions, please. You can expect a prompt reply. Every submission receives a response. E?ratio is edited by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino. Visit the e?ratio blog-auxiliary: http://eratio.blogspot.com E?ratio http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com "The noise of them that sing I do hear." E? From TNLK7768 at aol.com Mon Oct 16 18:52:13 2006 From: TNLK7768 at aol.com (TNLK7768 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:52:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] blog launch Message-ID: subject=GOD'S RAINBOW ~ PLEASE PUT ME ON HOLD FROM () TO () m MY SON WAS IN THE HOSPITAL SORRY ABOUT THE FULL MAILBOX I WILL BE BACK ON TOMORROW HE IS GETTING OUT IN THE MORNING. THANK YOU LORI THAT WOULD BE TUESDAY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker at davidson.edu Tue Oct 17 12:17:15 2006 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:17:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] in the news In-Reply-To: <200610171600.k9HG04oO024474@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Review of General Psychology. Vol 10(3) Sep 2006, 268-282. Abstract: This paper examines the literature on creative writing and mental illness and relates it to the "writing cure" research that shows that expressive writing improves health. There is an abundance of evidence that professional poets have poorer health outcomes relative to both other writers and to the population at large. Why doesn't the writing cure help them? The formation of a narrative, an element often missing in poetry, may provide the answer. Other possible explanations are that poets may be more depressed to begin with and may be even worse off if they did not write. For female poets, they may be subject to stereotypic expectations about writing themes, which may put them at further risk. Those seeking improvements in health through writing are advised to adopt a narrative style. Kaufman, James and Sexton, Janel D. **** Cheers. AMP From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 13:18:48 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:18:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] in the news In-Reply-To: References: <200610171600.k9HG04oO024474@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60610171018m34875d09w3a906908b77357e1@mail.gmail.com> Gad! David Graham is healthier than I am! And now we know why. - Jim On 10/17/06, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Review of General Psychology. Vol 10(3) Sep 2006, 268-282. > > Abstract: This paper examines the literature on creative writing and > mental illness and relates it to the "writing cure" research that shows > that expressive writing improves health. There is an abundance of > evidence that professional poets have poorer health outcomes relative to > both other writers and to the population at large. Why doesn't the > writing cure help them? The formation of a narrative, an element often > missing in poetry, may provide the answer. Other possible explanations > are that poets may be more depressed to begin with and may be even worse > off if they did not write. For female poets, they may be subject to > stereotypic expectations about writing themes, which may put them at > further risk. Those seeking improvements in health through writing are > advised to adopt a narrative style. Kaufman, James and Sexton, Janel D. > > **** > Cheers. > AMP > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Oct 17 14:40:07 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:40:07 -0400 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNew-Poetry=5D_E=B7ratio_call_for_poetry_submissions?= References: <200610161502.k9GF2Ljd001697@mail20.atl.registeredsite.com> Message-ID: <002a01c6f21b$acfbf4f0$50dcf63f@Helen> Oh, Linda, I just got your card this morning. I hope Bill is feeling fine now. It's awful, isn't it? When something bad happens to me I always console myself by saying, well, I can get a good poem out of this. But I can't write at all now. Maybe on the other side. Best to you and Bill, h ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] E?ratio call for poetry submissions > E? > > E?ratio > > http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com > > E?ratio is reading for accomplished poetry for issue eight, the Fall 2006 > issue. > > The deadline is November 27, 2006. > > See the Contact Page for guidelines before sending (and have a peek at > E?ratio's new design): > > http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com/contact.html > > No simultaneous submissions, please. > You can expect a prompt reply. > Every submission receives a response. > > E?ratio is edited by Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino. > > Visit the e?ratio blog-auxiliary: > > http://eratio.blogspot.com > > E?ratio > > http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com > > "The noise of them that sing I do hear." > > E? > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 15:17:04 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:17:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] in the news In-Reply-To: References: <200610171600.k9HG04oO024474@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <648208b60610171217y228c89c0ufd008001eb2c1df@mail.gmail.com> Preview of General Psychology. Vol 11(3) Sep 2007, 502-612. Abstract: This paper examines the literature on reading and mental agility and relates it to the "reading cure" research that shows that attentive reading improves mental abilities. There is an abundance of evidence that obsessive readers have poorer health outcomes relative to both other readers and to the population at large. Why doesn't the reading cure help them? The arrival at an epiphany, an element often missing in reading, may provide the answer. Other possible explanations are that obsessive readers may be more depressed to begin with and may be even worse off if they did not read. For both male and female readers, they may be subject to stereotypic expectations of instantly recognizable themes, which may put them at further risk. Those seeking improvements in mental health through reading are advised to adopt a what-me-worry style. Coughman, Click and Hack, Boppa D. On 10/17/06, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: > Review of General Psychology. Vol 10(3) Sep 2006, 268-282. > > Abstract: This paper examines the literature on creative writing and > mental illness and relates it to the "writing cure" research that shows > that expressive writing improves health. There is an abundance of > evidence that professional poets have poorer health outcomes relative to > both other writers and to the population at large. Why doesn't the > writing cure help them? The formation of a narrative, an element often > missing in poetry, may provide the answer. Other possible explanations > are that poets may be more depressed to begin with and may be even worse > off if they did not write. For female poets, they may be subject to > stereotypic expectations about writing themes, which may put them at > further risk. Those seeking improvements in health through writing are > advised to adopt a narrative style. Kaufman, James and Sexton, Janel D. > > **** > Cheers. > AMP > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 17 15:49:42 2006 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:49:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] floggery (pettifoggery? skullduggery?) In-Reply-To: <648208b60610171217y228c89c0ufd008001eb2c1df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a001c6f225$646a2ef0$230110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Forgive this brief fit of shamelessness but wanted to say that I'm interviewed in Kate Greenstreet's terrific series on first books today and tomorrow (and I guess in the archives with lots of interesting people after that): http://www.kickingwind.com/ Tossed about are the law of unintended consequences, Foetry, "Auction of the Mind," Vermont and snow, Randolph Healy, The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror, the Ontological-Hysteric Incubator, hideous baby aliens, the HumPo list, chaos theory, and much more. Rachel Loden P.S. Apologies for cross postings and for annoying ones as well. From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 19:12:35 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 00:12:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] floggery (pettifoggery? skullduggery?) In-Reply-To: <00a001c6f225$646a2ef0$230110ac@GLASSCASTLE> References: <648208b60610171217y228c89c0ufd008001eb2c1df@mail.gmail.com> <00a001c6f225$646a2ef0$230110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Message-ID: That's always been my favorite cover. And damn fine contents too. Roger On 10/17/06, Rachel Loden wrote: > Forgive this brief fit of shamelessness but wanted to say that I'm > interviewed in Kate Greenstreet's terrific series on first books today and > tomorrow (and I guess in the archives with lots of interesting people after > that): > > http://www.kickingwind.com/ > > Tossed about are the law of unintended consequences, Foetry, "Auction of the > Mind," Vermont and snow, Randolph Healy, The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror, > the Ontological-Hysteric Incubator, hideous baby aliens, the HumPo list, > chaos theory, and much more. > > Rachel Loden > > P.S. Apologies for cross postings and for annoying ones as well. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 17 19:28:28 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:28:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] in the news References: <200610171600.k9HG04oO024474@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <648208b60610171018m34875d09w3a906908b77357e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00e501c6f243$f37d17b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> All my poems have either narrative, or the ghost of narrative. They're coming to take me away, ha-ha! ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] in the news > Gad! David Graham is healthier than I am! And now we know why. > > - Jim > > On 10/17/06, Parker, Alan Michael wrote: >> Review of General Psychology. Vol 10(3) Sep 2006, 268-282. >> >> Abstract: This paper examines the literature on creative writing and >> mental illness and relates it to the "writing cure" research that shows >> that expressive writing improves health. There is an abundance of >> evidence that professional poets have poorer health outcomes relative to >> both other writers and to the population at large. Why doesn't the >> writing cure help them? The formation of a narrative, an element often >> missing in poetry, may provide the answer. Other possible explanations >> are that poets may be more depressed to begin with and may be even worse >> off if they did not write. For female poets, they may be subject to >> stereotypic expectations about writing themes, which may put them at >> further risk. Those seeking improvements in health through writing are >> advised to adopt a narrative style. Kaufman, James and Sexton, Janel D. >> >> **** >> Cheers. >> AMP >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From ASurkont at localnet.com Wed Oct 18 07:11:57 2006 From: ASurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:11:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Current Addy: Jason Shinder In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0610131554n70bf00c9r97909bf39910c574@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0610131554n70bf00c9r97909bf39910c574@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45360BFD.8040000@localnet.com> Looking for a current email addy for Jason Shinder. Please backchannel.... Thanks, manda From r_loden at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 18 12:46:08 2006 From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:46:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] floggery (pettifoggery? skullduggery?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c6f2d4$ea15e5d0$230110ac@GLASSCASTLE> Hey Roger, thanks so much--a very cheering thing to see in the morning. Rachel > That's always been my favorite cover. And damn fine contents too. > > Roger > > On 10/17/06, Rachel Loden wrote: > > Forgive this brief fit of shamelessness but wanted to say that I'm > > interviewed in Kate Greenstreet's terrific series on first > books today and > > tomorrow (and I guess in the archives with lots of > interesting people after > > that): > > > > http://www.kickingwind.com/ > > > > Tossed about are the law of unintended consequences, > Foetry, "Auction of the > > Mind," Vermont and snow, Randolph Healy, The Year's Best > Fantasy and Horror, > > the Ontological-Hysteric Incubator, hideous baby aliens, > the HumPo list, > > chaos theory, and much more. > > > > Rachel Loden > > > > P.S. Apologies for cross postings and for annoying ones as well. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > Suspicion breeds confidence > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Oct 18 15:59:29 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:59:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Frutti di Poesia; Lome, mostra personale; Galleria Civica Spazio foyer del centro Servizi Culturali S_ Chiara; Trento; 30 novembre-31 dicembre; inaugurazione il 29 novembre ore 18_00 Message-ID: <003b01c6f2ef$ec1a7420$21ab3252@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lome To: Anny Ballardini Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Frutti di Poesia; Lome, mostra personale; Galleria Civica Spazio foyer del centro Servizi Culturali S_ Chiara;Trento; 30 novembre-31 dicembre; inaugurazione il 29 novembre ore 18_00 Frutti di Poesia Lome - personale a cura di Luca Beatrice e Marina Mojana 30 novembre - 31 dicembre 2006 Foyer del Centro Servizi Culturali Santa Chiara Via S. Croce 67 Trento h. 10.00-18.00 Inaugurazione 29 novembre, ore 18.00 Personalit? dinamica e vivace, finanche eclettica nell'utilizzare pi? materie e nel compiere incursioni in pi? campi culturali, Lome realizza una mostra personale per Galleria Civica di Arte Contemporanea di Trento dal 30 novembre al 31 dicembre 2006. Si inaugura infatti il 29 novembre alle 18.00 presso il Foyer del Centro Servizi Culturali Santa Chiara la mostra Frutti di poesia, un'esposizione in cui l'artista presenta alcune delle facce della sua poliedrica attivit?. In allegato il comunicato stampa Per Informazioni: Galleria Civica di Arte Contemporanea di Trento Via Belenzani 46, 38100 Trento. Tel + 39 0461 985511 Fax + 39 0461 237033 info at galleriacivica.it www.workartonline.net Ufficio Stampa: Chiara Veronesi 0461.986138 ufficiostampa at galleriacivica.it -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 18035 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 43712 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 00:25:13 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Grand Piano -- collective autobiography Message-ID: <20061019042513.42303.qmail@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Publication announcement and subscription offer! THE GRAND PIANO An Experiment in Collective Autobiography San Francisco, 1975-1980 by Bob Perelman, Barrett Watten, Steve Benson, Carla Harryman, Tom Mandel, Ron Silliman, Kit Robinson, Lyn Hejinian, Rae Armantrout, and Ted Pearson THE GRAND PIANO is an on-going experiment in collective autobiography by ten writers identified with Language Poetry in San Francisco. It takes its name from a coffeehouse at 1607 Haight Street, where from 1976-79 the authors took part in a reading and performance series. The writing project was undertaken as an online collaboration, first via an interactive web site and later through a listserv. When completed, THE GRAND PIANO will comprise ten parts, in each of which the ten authors will appear in a difference sequence. "Like the early avant-gardes, the people who gathered at the Grand Piano developed not only an exacting and liberating poetics, but also a way of living-in-art. Its chronicle here is many things, among them a deeply human and amusing map to building community through literature in this most unlikely of times. --Cole Swenson Part 1 is scheduled to appear November 2006, with subsequent volumes to be published at three-month intervals. Subscription to the entire series of ten volumes is now available for $90 (individual volumes for $12.95 each) directly from Lyn Hejinian, 2639 Russell Street, Berkeley, CA 94705. For subscription order form: http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/pdfs/gporder.pdf (color) http://www.english.wayne.edu/fac%5Fpages/ewatten/pdfs/gporderbw.pdf (black and white) Designed and published by Barrett Watten, Mode A/This Press (Detroit), 6885 Cathedral Drive, Bloomfield Twp., MI 48301. Distributed (individual orders and trade) by Small Press Distribution, Inc., 1341 Seventh Street, Berkeley, CA 94710-1408. ISBN 978-0-9790198-0-X (part 1), 80 pp., wrappers. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From d.kellogg at neu.edu Thu Oct 19 21:05:47 2006 From: d.kellogg at neu.edu (d.kellogg at neu.edu) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:05:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books and readings and contest, Oh My! Message-ID: Dear New Poetry people, I used to post here pretty often but have been lurking for a while now since I moved to Boston. Anyway, I'd like to announce some great stuff from Carolina Wren Press. Please distribute these assignments freely to other lists. I will be grateful if someone can forward to Poetics, to which I no longer subscribe. Three New Poetry Titles: William Pitt Root, Linda Pennisi, Evie Shockley. Carolina Wren Press announces the publication of three new titles in our Poetry Series (formerly the Carolina Wren Press Chapbook Series) #8 White Boots: New and Selected Poems of the West by William Pitt Root. Richard Jackson wrote: "For Root, the world is poem; for us, his is a world we need to enter." Paperback, perfectbound, 72pp. ISBN 0-932112-51-X. $12.95. #9 Suddenly, Fruit by Linda Pennisi. Winner of the 2005 CWP Poetry contest. Contest judge William Pitt Root wrote: "This poet composes and performs with the luxurious patience only a marvelously ripened spirit can achieve." Paperback, perfectbound, 64pp. ISBN 0-932112-52-X, $12.95. #10 a half-red sea by Evie Shockley. Harryette Mullen wrote: "Navigating against prevailing currents, these poems sail on eddy and backflow, taking inspiration from knots and twists of American history and culture." Paperpack, perfectbound, 96 pp. with fold-out of "a thousand words." ISBN 0-932112-53-6. $15.95. (Shockley will judge the 2007 CWP Poetry contest, deadline 12/1/06; full guidelines on our website.) All titles can be ordered through the CWP website: www.carolinawrenpress.org. Or your bookstore can order through Baker & Taylor and most other distributors. If you must use Amazon, they are available that way too. A reading for those in the neighborhoood Evie Shockley and Linda Pennisi will read from their new books of poetry at 8pm on Saturday, October 28th, 2006, in the Durham Arts Council's PSI Theater, 120 Morris Street, Durham, NC, 27701. This reading is free and will be followed by a reception and book-signing. Pennisi is the winner of the 2005 Carolina Wren Press Poetry Contest and Evie Shockley will judge this year's contest (i.e., 2007). Sponsored by Carolina Wren Press and the Desert City Poetry Series. For more information, call 919-560-2738 or email carolinawrenpress at earthlink.net. Carolina Wren Press Poetry Series contest deadline 12/10/06 Carolina Wren Press is currently accepting submissions for its First Book poetry contest. Postmark Deadline: 12/1/06. Prize: $1000 and publication; final judge: Evie Shockley. Send two (2) copies of entire 48- to 64-pp. ms., four (4) cover sheets with only ms. title on it, and $18 reading fee to Carolina Wren Press, Poetry Contest, 120 Morris Street, Durham NC, 27701. Include letter with full contact information and acknowledgements of individual poems that have been published previously. Mss that have been published before (even self-published or elctronically published) in their entirety are not eligible. Results in July, 2007. For more information, check out www.carolinawrenpress.org or email carolinawrenpress at earthlink.net for full guidelines. Thanks. You may now resume your normal activities. David Kellogg Director, Advanced Writing in the Disciplines Department of English 465 Holmes Hall Northeastern University Boston, MA 02115 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 20 05:12:06 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:12:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books and readings and contest, Oh My! References: Message-ID: <003b01c6f427$d09d27e0$f9a93852@ANNY> You mean the Buffalo? I sent it. And congrats to all! ----- Original Message ----- From: d.kellogg at neu.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:05 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Books and readings and contest, Oh My! Dear New Poetry people, I used to post here pretty often but have been lurking for a while now since I moved to Boston. Anyway, I'd like to announce some great stuff from Carolina Wren Press. Please distribute these assignments freely to other lists. I will be grateful if someone can forward to Poetics, to which I no longer subscribe. Three New Poetry Titles: William Pitt Root, Linda Pennisi, Evie Shockley. Carolina Wren Press announces the publication of three new titles in our Poetry Series (formerly the Carolina Wren Press Chapbook Series) #8 White Boots: New and Selected Poems of the West by William Pitt Root. Richard Jackson wrote: "For Root, the world is poem; for us, his is a world we need to enter." Paperback, perfectbound, 72pp. ISBN 0-932112-51-X. $12.95. #9 Suddenly, Fruit by Linda Pennisi. Winner of the 2005 CWP Poetry contest. Contest judge William Pitt Root wrote: "This poet composes and performs with the luxurious patience only a marvelously ripened spirit can achieve." Paperback, perfectbound, 64pp. ISBN 0-932112-52-X, $12.95. #10 a half-red sea by Evie Shockley. Harryette Mullen wrote: "Navigating against prevailing currents, these poems sail on eddy and backflow, taking inspiration from knots and twists of American history and culture." Paperpack, perfectbound, 96 pp. with fold-out of "a thousand words." ISBN 0-932112-53-6. $15.95. (Shockley will judge the 2007 CWP Poetry contest, deadline 12/1/06; full guidelines on our website.) All titles can be ordered through the CWP website: www.carolinawrenpress.org. Or your bookstore can order through Baker & Taylor and most other distributors. If you must use Amazon, they are available that way too. A reading for those in the neighborhoood Evie Shockley and Linda Pennisi will read from their new books of poetry at 8pm on Saturday, October 28th, 2006, in the Durham Arts Council's PSI Theater, 120 Morris Street, Durham, NC, 27701. This reading is free and will be followed by a reception and book-signing. Pennisi is the winner of the 2005 Carolina Wren Press Poetry Contest and Evie Shockley will judge this year's contest (i.e., 2007). Sponsored by Carolina Wren Press and the Desert City Poetry Series. For more information, call 919-560-2738 or email carolinawrenpress at earthlink.net. Carolina Wren Press Poetry Series contest deadline 12/10/06 Carolina Wren Press is currently accepting submissions for its First Book poetry contest. Postmark Deadline: 12/1/06. Prize: $1000 and publication; final judge: Evie Shockley. Send two (2) copies of entire 48- to 64-pp. ms., four (4) cover sheets with only ms. title on it, and $18 reading fee to Carolina Wren Press, Poetry Contest, 120 Morris Street, Durham NC, 27701. Include letter with full contact information and acknowledgements of individual poems that have been published previously. Mss that have been published before (even self-published or elctronically published) in their entirety are not eligible. Results in July, 2007. For more information, check out www.carolinawrenpress.org or email carolinawrenpress at earthlink.net for full guidelines. Thanks. You may now resume your normal activities. David Kellogg Director, Advanced Writing in the Disciplines Department of English 465 Holmes Hall Northeastern University Boston, MA 02115 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Fri Oct 20 09:38:22 2006 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 9:38:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Message-ID: <200610201338.k9KDcMSd024490@mail21.atl.registeredsite.com> E? Anny, congratulations! I love that photo of you. You look timeless, ancient, a goddess. And ferocious! E? From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 20 10:32:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:32:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny References: <200610201338.k9KDcMSd024490@mail21.atl.registeredsite.com> Message-ID: <003001c6f454$949598e0$a92bb750@ANNY> Gregory Vincent is referring to an article that came out yesterday on the local newspaper and I forwarded to my mailing list. I also uploaded the scanned article on my blog if you can read Italian: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2006/10/henry-goulds-in-ri.html Thank you Vincent! Till soon, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:38 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny > E? > > Anny, congratulations! I love that photo of you. You look timeless, > ancient, a > goddess. And ferocious! > > > > E? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Oct 20 10:55:14 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:55:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny In-Reply-To: <003001c6f454$949598e0$a92bb750@ANNY> References: <200610201338.k9KDcMSd024490@mail21.atl.registeredsite.com> <003001c6f454$949598e0$a92bb750@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60610200755t774a7124s244573645662a82a@mail.gmail.com> Non posso leggere l'italiano! (courtesy Babelfish) But that's a great photo. - Jim On 10/20/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > Gregory Vincent is referring to an article that came out yesterday on the > local newspaper and I forwarded to my mailing list. I also uploaded the > scanned article on my blog if you can read Italian: > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2006/10/henry-goulds-in-ri.html > > Thank you Vincent! > Till soon, Anny > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:38 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny > > > > E? > > > > Anny, congratulations! I love that photo of you. You look timeless, > > ancient, a > > goddess. And ferocious! > > > > > > > > E? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 20 11:18:11 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 17:18:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny References: <200610201338.k9KDcMSd024490@mail21.atl.registeredsite.com><003001c6f454$949598e0$a92bb750@ANNY> <648208b60610200755t774a7124s244573645662a82a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005501c6f45a$f4f10cf0$a92bb750@ANNY> Non so leggere in italiano. Otherwise very comprehensible. The article is mainly on my translation of Henry Gould's In RI. I also feature a good pic of you here: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=219 and a very interesting one of Greg Vincent St. Thomasino here: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=155 Thank you, Anny From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:55 PM > Non posso leggere l'italiano! (courtesy Babelfish) But that's a great > photo. > > - Jim > > On 10/20/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> Gregory Vincent is referring to an article that came out yesterday on the >> local newspaper and I forwarded to my mailing list. I also uploaded the >> scanned article on my blog if you can read Italian: >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2006/10/henry-goulds-in-ri.html >> >> Thank you Vincent! >> Till soon, Anny >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:38 PM >> Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny >> >> >> > E? >> > >> > Anny, congratulations! I love that photo of you. You look timeless, >> > ancient, a >> > goddess. And ferocious! >> > >> > >> > >> > E? > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Oct 20 12:13:05 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:13:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny Message-ID: <1465.1161360785@opus40.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Oct 20 12:41:24 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:41:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fulcrum's Latest: Fifth Issue out, New Website up Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Oct 20 12:52:49 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:52:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fulcrum's Latest: Fifth Issue out, New Website up Message-ID: Let's try that again... In a message dated 10/18/2006 6:19:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, editor at fulcrumpoetry.com writes: For immediate release and forwarding. FULCRUM is proud to announce the publication of its fifth annual issue and the launch of its brand-new website. FULCRUM: an annual of poetry and aesthetics, Number Five, 2006, edited by Philip Nikolayev and Katia Kapovich * 544 pp., perfectbound, exquisitely designed, cheaply priced * SPECIAL FEATURES: "Poets and Philosophers"; "Poetry and Harvard in the 1920s" * POETRY BY Stephen Sturgeon, Ben Mazer, Jeet Thayil, Vivek Narayanan, Glyn Maxwell, Joe Green, Landis Everson, Dan Sofaer, Billy Collins, John Tranter, Andrea Zanzotto, Don Share, Sean O Riordain, Greg Delanty, Michael Palmer, Kit Robinson, Brian Henry, Pam Brown, David Lehman, John Hennessy, Charles Bernstein, Charles Baudelaire, Guillaume Apollinaire, Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Arthur Rimbaud, X.J. Kennedy, John Crowe Ransom, Alex To, Fiona Sampson, Fan Ogilvie, Richard Fein, Joyelle McSweeney, Justin Marks, Gerard Malanga, Alexei Tsvetkov, George Bilgere, John Wheelwright, Malcolm Cowley, R.P. Blackmur, Dudley Fitts... * ESSAYS BY Eliot Weinberger, Peter H. Hare, Simon Critchley, Marjorie Perloff, Lisa Goldfarb, Pierre Joris, Raymond Barfield... * ART Esther Pullman, e.e. cummings * INTERVIEW: Andrea Zanzotto * ...AND MUCH MORE! Find more information, view samples or subscribe at http://fulcrumpoetry.com! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip Nikolayev and Katia Kapovich, Editors FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF POETRY AND AESTHETICS 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA http://fulcrumpoetry.com phone 617-864-7874 e-mail editor{AT}fulcrumpoetry.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 20 12:58:41 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:58:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny References: <1465.1161360785@opus40.org> Message-ID: <00b201c6f469$00205460$a92bb750@ANNY> Thank you Tad, I should take some time to translate it. Even if I am very much under stress at the moment. ----- Original Message ----- From: opus40-01 at opus40.org To: 'NewPoetry at smapp05.chicago.hostway.net : Contemporary Poetry News &Views' Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Anny Will there be a translation on your blog? On Fri Oct 20 10:32 , 'Anny Ballardini' sent: Gregory Vincent is referring to an article that came out yesterday on the local newspaper and I forwarded to my mailing list. I also uploaded the scanned article on my blog if you can read Italian: http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/2006/10/henry-goulds-in-ri.html Thank you Vincent! Till soon, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:38 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Anny > E? > > Anny, congratulations! I love that photo of you. You look timeless, > ancient, a > goddess. And ferocious! > > > > E? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 20 13:23:27 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:23:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <00ea01c6f46c$753c76e0$a92bb750@ANNY> Poem: "Samurai Song" by Robert Pinsky, from Jersey Rain. ? Farrar, Straus and Giroux. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Samurai Song When I had no roof I made Audacity my roof. When I had No supper my eyes dined. When I had no eyes I listened. When I had no ears I thought. When I had no thought I waited. When I had no father I made Care my father. When I had No mother I embraced order. When I had no friend I made Quiet my friend. When I had no Enemy I opposed my body. When I had no temple I made My voice my temple. I have No priest, my tongue is my choir. When I have no means fortune Is my means. When I have Nothing, death will be my fortune. Need is my tactic, detachment Is my strategy. When I had No lover I courted my sleep. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Oct 20 16:39:14 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:39:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: invito Message-ID: <001f01c6f487$ce494b30$542bb750@ANNY> >From Mary de Rachewiltz. (Grosseto is a town in Tuscany) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: invito Grosseto.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 51873 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Oct 21 12:23:37 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:23:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... Message-ID: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> Wisdom & Metaphor by Jan Zwicky Gaspereau Press (Canada) _http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml_ (http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml) A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with answers of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as well. Which has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom & Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in that astonishment for an extended moment or two. --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 21 14:13:21 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:13:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> Message-ID: <004d01c6f53c$98e47630$25b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Wisdom & Metaphor by Jan Zwicky Gaspereau Press (Canada) http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with answers of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as well. Which has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom & Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in that astonishment for an extended moment or two. --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. Finnegan I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 21 14:30:47 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:30:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> Message-ID: <012b01c6f53f$07732810$17ee3652@ANNY> I added both, thank you James http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... Wisdom & Metaphor by Jan Zwicky Gaspereau Press (Canada) http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with answers of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as well. Which has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom & Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in that astonishment for an extended moment or two. --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hawkbrwn at msn.com Sat Oct 21 16:36:47 2006 From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:36:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... In-Reply-To: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for posting these! I?ve enjoyed these quotes before and unfortunately forgotten about them. Thank you for the reminder. On 10/21/06 12:23 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > Wisdom & Metaphor > by Jan Zwicky > Gaspereau Press (Canada) > http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml > > A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians > centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with > answers > of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as > well. Which > has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom > & > Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight > of somewhere > before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... > > The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an > awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric > comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the > resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in balance. > Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness > overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains > the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: > those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth > over the hinge of what is common. > ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 > > To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, > that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in > that astonishment for an extended moment or two. > > --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh > > Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hawkbrwn at msn.com Sat Oct 21 16:37:36 2006 From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:37:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... In-Reply-To: <004d01c6f53c$98e47630$25b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: bad bad bob ! On 10/21/06 2:13 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > >> >> Wisdom & Metaphor >> >> by Jan Zwicky >> >> Gaspereau Press (Canada) >> >> http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml >> >> >> >> A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians >> >> centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions >> with answers >> >> of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as >> well. Which >> >> has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. >> Wisdom & >> >> Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost >> sight of somewhere >> >> before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... >> >> >> >> The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an >> awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the >> lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the >> resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in balance. >> Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness >> overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains >> the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: >> those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and >> forth over the hinge of what is common. >> >> ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 >> >> >> >> To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, >> >> that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in >> >> that astonishment for an extended moment or two. >> >> >> >> --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh >> >> >> >> Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. >> >> >> >> Finnegan >> >> >> I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. >> >> bad Bob >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 21 17:02:14 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:02:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: Message-ID: <018e01c6f554$2f8e7100$17ee3652@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own...I totally agree Elaine, we should put him in the corner...! From: Elaine Brown Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:37 PM bad bad bob ! On 10/21/06 2:13 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: Wisdom & Metaphor by Jan Zwicky Gaspereau Press (Canada) http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with answers of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as well. Which has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom & Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended-held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. -Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in that astonishment for an extended moment or two. --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. Finnegan I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hawkbrwn at msn.com Sat Oct 21 17:22:39 2006 From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:22:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... In-Reply-To: <018e01c6f554$2f8e7100$17ee3652@ANNY> Message-ID: And read these and other such quotes to him till he starts behaving himself On 10/21/06 5:02 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > I totally agree Elaine, we should put him in the corner...! >> >> From: Elaine Brown >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:37 PM >> >> >> bad bad bob ! >> >> >> On 10/21/06 2:13 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Wisdom & Metaphor >>>> >>>> by Jan Zwicky >>>> >>>> Gaspereau Press (Canada) >>>> >>>> http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and >>>> mathematicians >>>> >>>> centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions >>>> with answers >>>> >>>> of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, >>>> as well. Which >>>> >>>> has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. >>>> Wisdom & >>>> >>>> Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost >>>> sight of somewhere >>>> >>>> before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an >>>> awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the >>>> lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace >>>> the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in >>>> balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: >>>> wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of >>>> things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, >>>> gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, >>>> flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. >>>> >>>> ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, >>>> >>>> that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in >>>> >>>> that astonishment for an extended moment or two. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Finnegan >>>> >>>> >>>> I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. >>>> >>>> bad Bob >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 21 17:57:50 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:57:50 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: Message-ID: <01af01c6f55b$f3b9b1a0$17ee3652@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own...Yes, yes! Both mathematical and philosophical in an alternating phenomenological Calderean or Tinguelyan structure, or both, but always alternating, I think it works better From: Elaine Brown Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:22 PM And read these and other such quotes to him till he starts behaving himself On 10/21/06 5:02 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: I totally agree Elaine, we should put him in the corner...! From: Elaine Brown Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:37 PM bad bad bob ! On 10/21/06 2:13 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: Wisdom & Metaphor by Jan Zwicky Gaspereau Press (Canada) http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with answers of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as well. Which has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom & Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended~held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. ^Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in that astonishment for an extended moment or two. --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. Finnegan I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hawkbrwn at msn.com Sat Oct 21 18:06:15 2006 From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:06:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... In-Reply-To: <01af01c6f55b$f3b9b1a0$17ee3652@ANNY> Message-ID: Perhaps in unison so they occur slightly staggered and alternating, as you?ve suggested, but simultaneous none the less? On 10/21/06 5:57 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Yes, yes! > Both mathematical and philosophical in an alternating phenomenological > Calderean or Tinguelyan structure, or both, but always alternating, I think it > works better >> >> >> >> From: Elaine Brown >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:22 PM >> >> >> And read these and other such quotes to him till he starts behaving himself >> >> >> On 10/21/06 5:02 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: >> >> >>> I totally agree Elaine, we should put him in the corner...! >>> >>>> >>>> From: Elaine Brown "> >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:37 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> bad bad bob ! >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/21/06 2:13 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Wisdom & Metaphor >>>>>> >>>>>> by Jan Zwicky >>>>>> >>>>>> Gaspereau Press (Canada) >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and >>>>>> mathematicians >>>>>> >>>>>> centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their >>>>>> assertions with answers >>>>>> >>>>>> of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric >>>>>> Philosophy_, as well. Which >>>>>> >>>>>> has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this >>>>>> book. Wisdom & >>>>>> >>>>>> Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us >>>>>> lost sight of somewhere >>>>>> >>>>>> before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from >>>>>> an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is >>>>>> the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to >>>>>> embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but >>>>>> suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of >>>>>> domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not >>>>>> erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their >>>>>> resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by >>>>>> being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the >>>>>> hinge of what is common. >>>>>> >>>>>> ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, >>>>>> >>>>>> that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> that astonishment for an extended moment or two. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote >>>>>> category. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Finnegan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. >>>>>> >>>>>> bad Bob >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 21 18:30:32 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:30:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: Message-ID: <00ab01c6f560$87684160$25b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own...You two better watch out or I'll start firing my neurophysiological basis of equaphoricality at you. (Equaphoricality is what I call the class of metaphors and metaphor-like devices, and I really do have a neurophysiologically-based theory of it.) Bob Badbad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 21 18:31:04 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:31:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: Message-ID: <01c201c6f560$98adf280$17ee3652@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own...Brilliant, this should definitely do re.: "and other some such quotes" I would randomly choose from Racter http://www.ubu.com/concept/racter.html something like this: There was once a torpid young fly Whose Tabasco quickly would fry It lay down and hassled And never quite rassled And they loudly call them a pie. Work of stupefying genius number: 8 From: Elaine Brown Perhaps in unison so they occur slightly staggered and alternating, as you've suggested, but simultaneous none the less? On 10/21/06 5:57 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: Yes, yes! Both mathematical and philosophical in an alternating phenomenological Calderean or Tinguelyan structure, or both, but always alternating, I think it works better From: Elaine Brown Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:22 PM And read these and other such quotes to him till he starts behaving himself On 10/21/06 5:02 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: I totally agree Elaine, we should put him in the corner...! From: Elaine Brown "> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:37 PM bad bad bob ! On 10/21/06 2:13 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: Wisdom & Metaphor by Jan Zwicky Gaspereau Press (Canada) http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions with answers of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, as well. Which has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. Wisdom & Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... The phenomenological power of both metaphor and thisness derives from an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. Thisness is the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what is common. ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in that astonishment for an extended moment or two. --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. Finnegan I agree. The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Sun Oct 22 05:26:27 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:26:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: Quote from Zwicky: ?Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II.? While attending the Bridges Conference on Mathematical connections in Art Music and Science, I had a conversation with Zwicky. She delivered a lecture discussing metaphor in which she said that she could not see any real difference in metaphor and simile. I find this a big problem in her philosophy (as implied above) for it points at the idea that ?pure mathematics? expresses metaphor. I see ?pure mathematics? only valuable for expressing denotation as seen in scientific examples everywhere. I must add, ?pure mathematics? does contain structures that seem connotative e.g. asymptotes and singularities however, they are structural as opposed to what I would call connotative expression. I am only able to see ?applied mathematics? for uses in connotation. The bottom line is that one may ?intend? simile when using verbiage that typically used for metaphor. We may say, ?Bill is a deer? and intend it to be simile however, I would argue that this is using our language poorly. If you intend simile then use the work ?like?. Unfortunately, things get confusing is when examining scientific equations. We see the symbol ?=? and know that it means ?equal? or ?is? however scientific equations are intended for denotation and yet we use symbology that would indicate otherwise. When I took physics one of the first things the professor said was that ?=? means ?is like? not ?is? even though we say ?is?. Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 22 06:25:25 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 06:25:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: Message-ID: <001701c6f5c4$6c829490$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Yes. Along with this is that math is symbolic, not metaphoric. --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Kazmandu at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:26 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Quote from Zwicky: ?Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II.? While attending the Bridges Conference on Mathematical connections in Art Music and Science, I had a conversation with Zwicky. She delivered a lecture discussing metaphor in which she said that she could not see any real difference in metaphor and simile. I find this a big problem in her philosophy (as implied above) for it points at the idea that ?pure mathematics? expresses metaphor. I see ?pure mathematics? only valuable for expressing denotation as seen in scientific examples everywhere. I must add, ?pure mathematics? does contain structures that seem connotative e.g. asymptotes and singularities however, they are structural as opposed to what I would call connotative expression. I am only able to see ?applied mathematics? for uses in connotation. The bottom line is that one may ?intend? simile when using verbiage that typically used for metaphor. We may say, ?Bill is a deer? and intend it to be simile however, I would argue that this is using our language poorly. If you intend simile then use the work ?like?. Unfortunately, things get confusing is when examining scientific equations. We see the symbol ?=? and know that it means ?equal? or ?is? however scientific equations are intended for denotation and yet we use symbology that would indicate otherwise. When I took physics one of the first things the professor said was that ?=? means ?is like? not ?is? even though we say ?is?. Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Sun Oct 22 06:59:24 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 03:59:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... In-Reply-To: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> References: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> Message-ID: <453B4F0C.1070901@myuw.net> at the risk of pissing everybody off, what the does that Zwicky quote mean to those of you that this kind of thing appeals? It looks like complete garbage to me, no matter which way I parse it. A brief survey of the things that appear to me to be gibberish: "phenomenological power" Phenomenology is, loosely, an anti-scientific approach to the natural world founded on the lionization of the first person rather than the third person. It privileges metaphysics over physics and as such is largely speculative and depends on the investment of jargon with special meanings that generally divest philosophers working in the hegel-husserl-heidegger-derrida tradition of the ability to say anything meaningful whatsoever. Even, however, accepting the phenomenologist at his word and taking the inquiry to be investigating something real in its claim to be describing Being as it exists "before" or "behind" objects, is what phenomenological power then /is/ is the power to reveal this being? But then how does metaphor have any such power. Metaphor is a kind of relation between objects, it says "some object and some other object are interchangable in some way." If all that this "power" amounts to is the ability to isolate the essence that all things in common have in common, then i fail to see how the resulting phenomenological statement that "all things which are, in fact ARE." then it seems to be that Zwicky is making a big deal out of something so painfully tautological that it's a little bit embarassing she's bothering to say it. Which is, of course, the terrible flaw of this kind of philosophy: the tendency of many if not most of its adherents to believe they are saying something profound just because they've managed to couch it in a lot of jargon. For example, and Zwicky provides a perfect example in "Thisness." What is Thisness? She says it is the "lyric comprehension" of the tension between being and time. Well, what does that mean? Lyric means, basically, a sort of musicality of language. Comprehension implies that there is a Comprehender. But what the hell does "lyric comprehension" mean? and how does it derive from the awareness of the tension? So say I am aware of this tension, how then so I derive from that awareness "lyric comprehension?" Do I apply the power rule? Or is it more of a chemical process? I'd put my money on the latter, truth be told. I'd go on but what she says about metaphor seems to be equally incomprehensible. I doubt truly that such a person has anything at all useful to say on the topic, or on the topic of Wisdom for that matter. Wittgenstein once wrote that "Philosophy ought only to be written as a form of poetry." Marjorie Perloff asserted the converse in Wittgenstein's ladder, that really, poetry ought only to be written as a form of philosophy. I don't know whether I agree with her or not, but even if she is right, and a poem ought to be philosophical as much as a philosophical statement must be poetic, then this poem of Zwicky's quoted below is failing to be either poetry or philosophy. JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Wisdom & Metaphor > by Jan Zwicky > Gaspereau Press (Canada) > http://www.gaspereau.com/1894031784.shtml > > A large compendium of quotes by poets and philosophers and mathematicians > centering on the topic of metaphor. Zwicky responds to their assertions > with answers > of her own. If you can find it, buy her earlier book _Lyric Philosophy_, > as well. Which > has even more illustrations and musical notation than are in this book. > Wisdom & > Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost > sight of somewhere > before our finals in Algebra II. Two quotes fromt her book... > > The phenomenological power of both metaphor and /this/ness derives from > an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. /This/ness is > the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to > embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but > suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic > understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The > distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant > connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and > those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what > is common. > ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 > > To defend poetry means to defend a fundamental gift of human nature, > that is, our capacity...to experience astonishment and to stop still in > that astonishment for an extended moment or two. > > --Adam Zagajewski, Another Beauty, translated by Clare Cavenaugh > > Anny, that would be a good one for "Why poetry exists?" quote category. > > Finnegan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jfq at myuw.net Sun Oct 22 07:55:08 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (Jason Quackenbush) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:55:08 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > When I took physics one of the > first things the professor said was that ?=? means ?is like? not ?is? > even though we say ?is?. That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the difference clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is like", to me. What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should be taken to be more like the copula? I mean, it would really throw all the metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just expressed a relation that entailed similarity, and maybe that's good enough reason to say that it does, but the more i think about this sentence above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 08:35:55 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:35:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> Message-ID: In computerese for integers, eq or == or .eq. or even equals are identity functions in various languages. if a == b: So when a is *identitical* to b in all respects, then something interesting will happen. This isn't similarity: this is a "straightforward" 1 == 1 (where a has a value of 1 and b has a value of 1). This gets interesting if the symbols represent objects. Can you say 'a' is 'b' in maths? I suppose you could say that == is "is like", but that seem's wrong as well. a is identical is to b seems stronger and more apt. You may think that this is quibbling - and I wouldn't argue with you - but you can't argue with the compiler! And it has it's purposes in a maths and physics, where such fine points are argued endlessly. The notation = can be seen as a mapping function and really should be denoted as <= or <- if this didn't exhaust the notation so x = x + 1 the resultant value of the function "x+1" replaces the previous value that x had. So "=" does not equal "similarity" or identity. So the = notation is probably the equivalent of 'has': in the previous previous paragraph, the statements "a has the value of 1" and "b has the value of 1" is denoted by a = 1 b = 1 Similarity has a lot of play in geometry - "polygons are similar if their corresponding (matching) angles are equal and the ratio of their corresponding sides are in proportion." So "like" has a very precise meaning. So for similarity, we have the notation of: =~ (or tilda over the equals). HTH Roger On 10/22/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > When I took physics one of the > > first things the professor said was that '=' means 'is like' not 'is' > > even though we say 'is'. > > That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched > confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the difference > clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is like", to me. What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should be > taken to be more like the copula? I mean, it would really throw all the metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just > expressed a relation that entailed similarity, and maybe that's good enough reason to say that it does, but the more i think about this sentence > above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 08:58:02 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:58:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> Message-ID: <648208b60610220558t4d5562e8sdd669b2eec4d1b77@mail.gmail.com> a-ness can be *like* b-ness but a can never be "equal to/with" b??? - Jim On 10/22/06, Roger Day wrote: > In computerese > > for integers, eq or == or .eq. or even equals > > are identity functions in various languages. > > if a == b: > > > So when a is *identitical* to b in all respects, then something > interesting will happen. This isn't similarity: this is a > "straightforward" 1 == 1 (where a has a value of 1 and b has a value > of 1). This gets interesting if the symbols represent objects. Can > you say 'a' is 'b' in maths? I suppose you could say that == is "is > like", but that seem's wrong as well. a is identical is to b seems > stronger and more apt. You may think that this is quibbling - and I > wouldn't argue with you - but you can't argue with the compiler! And > it has it's purposes in a maths and physics, where such fine points > are argued endlessly. > > The notation = can be seen as a mapping function and really should be > denoted as <= or <- if this didn't exhaust the notation so > > x = x + 1 > > the resultant value of the function "x+1" replaces the previous value > that x had. So "=" does not equal "similarity" or identity. So the = > notation is probably the equivalent of 'has': in the previous previous > paragraph, the statements "a has the value of 1" and "b has the value > of 1" is denoted by > > a = 1 > b = 1 > > Similarity has a lot of play in geometry - "polygons are similar if > their corresponding (matching) angles are equal and the ratio of their > corresponding sides are in proportion." So "like" has a very precise > meaning. So for similarity, we have the notation of: > > =~ (or tilda over the equals). > > HTH > > Roger > > On 10/22/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > > When I took physics one of the > > > first things the professor said was that '=' means 'is like' not 'is' > > > even though we say 'is'. > > > > That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched > > confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the difference > > clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is like", to me. What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should be > > taken to be more like the copula? I mean, it would really throw all the metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just > > expressed a relation that entailed similarity, and maybe that's good enough reason to say that it does, but the more i think about this sentence > > above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > Suspicion breeds confidence > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 22 09:56:45 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:56:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... References: <233.2788a639.326ba389@aol.com> <453B4F0C.1070901@myuw.net> Message-ID: <004301c6f5e1$ea71a180$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Wittgenstein once wrote that "Philosophy ought only to be written as a > form of poetry." Marjorie Perloff asserted the converse in Wittgenstein's > ladder, that really, poetry ought only to be written as a form of > philosophy. I don't know whether I agree with her or not, but even if she > is right, and a poem ought to be philosophical as much as a philosophical > statement must be poetic, then this poem of Zwicky's quoted below is > failing to be either poetry or philosophy. Hmmm, I thought it was both--which is why I called it bs. --bad Bob (now with an ally, it would seem!) From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 22 09:59:24 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:59:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> Message-ID: <004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I take = to mean mathematically identical. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own > In computerese > > for integers, eq or == or .eq. or even equals > > are identity functions in various languages. > > if a == b: > > > So when a is *identitical* to b in all respects, then something > interesting will happen. This isn't similarity: this is a > "straightforward" 1 == 1 (where a has a value of 1 and b has a value > of 1). This gets interesting if the symbols represent objects. Can > you say 'a' is 'b' in maths? I suppose you could say that == is "is > like", but that seem's wrong as well. a is identical is to b seems > stronger and more apt. You may think that this is quibbling - and I > wouldn't argue with you - but you can't argue with the compiler! And > it has it's purposes in a maths and physics, where such fine points > are argued endlessly. > > The notation = can be seen as a mapping function and really should be > denoted as <= or <- if this didn't exhaust the notation so > > x = x + 1 > > the resultant value of the function "x+1" replaces the previous value > that x had. So "=" does not equal "similarity" or identity. So the = > notation is probably the equivalent of 'has': in the previous previous > paragraph, the statements "a has the value of 1" and "b has the value > of 1" is denoted by > > a = 1 > b = 1 > > Similarity has a lot of play in geometry - "polygons are similar if > their corresponding (matching) angles are equal and the ratio of their > corresponding sides are in proportion." So "like" has a very precise > meaning. So for similarity, we have the notation of: > > =~ (or tilda over the equals). > > HTH > > Roger > > On 10/22/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: >> > When I took physics one of the >> > first things the professor said was that '=' means 'is like' not 'is' >> > even though we say 'is'. >> >> That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of >> Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched >> confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" >> that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the >> difference >> clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is >> like", to me. What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should >> be >> taken to be more like the copula? I mean, it would really throw all the >> metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just >> expressed a relation that entailed similarity, and maybe that's good >> enough reason to say that it does, but the more i think about this >> sentence >> above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what >> your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > Suspicion breeds confidence > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Oct 22 10:04:30 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:04:30 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> <004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> >I take = to mean mathematically identical. > > --Bob G. The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 10:17:27 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:17:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <648208b60610220558t4d5562e8sdd669b2eec4d1b77@mail.gmail.com> References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> <648208b60610220558t4d5562e8sdd669b2eec4d1b77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In the case I outlined below, a and b are independant variables, so a cannot be b. The independant variables can have equivalence of value, but fundamentally, they operate independantly, they are *not the same, they are two different things (in a computer program, they are two different slots in the memory, so there is a physical difference). However, and to contradict myself, the variables a and b can refer to the same object (languages that operate on references usually contain this property - Java, Python, PERL). However, a and b are two different address slots which point to the same object, so attribute operations on a will effect b: the statement "a is b" might hold water in this case. Further, take for example if a and b represented two objects - one a green horse, the other blue. Languages rarely provide operators for comparing ad hoc objects, particularly complex objects with "has a" and "is a" relationships. However, Strings (in some languages or libraries) now have a whole zoo of likeness operators in pattern-matches (regular expressions in the jargon). For example, $h =~ /^a[g-H] \d\d \w .*ll$/; This is a test which tries to see if the pattern on the RHS (a string beginning with a, second character g through h, a single space, two integers, a space, a word, a space, some characters, ending with 2 l's. So == is (usually) limited in datatypes to (typically) integers, floats and strings, where identity can be considered a speicial case for "like". In some languages, == can be overridden so that == can perform identity on object a and b, but overriding operators is usually considered to be bad practice. It is very confusing to C or Basic programmers where such things as overloading can't be done. Umm. Caveat emptor. This is maths seen from the POV of the programmer. HTH Roger [1] PERL has something *like* the "similarity" operator =~ $x =~ s/A/a/g; where the string x is operated on by the RH function. This is a "convenience" operator and I've not seen it in other languages. On 10/22/06, James Cervantes wrote: > a-ness can be *like* b-ness but a can never be "equal to/with" b??? > > - Jim > > On 10/22/06, Roger Day wrote: > > In computerese > > > > for integers, eq or == or .eq. or even equals > > > > are identity functions in various languages. > > > > if a == b: > > > > > > So when a is *identitical* to b in all respects, then something > > interesting will happen. This isn't similarity: this is a > > "straightforward" 1 == 1 (where a has a value of 1 and b has a value > > of 1). This gets interesting if the symbols represent objects. Can > > you say 'a' is 'b' in maths? I suppose you could say that == is "is > > like", but that seem's wrong as well. a is identical is to b seems > > stronger and more apt. You may think that this is quibbling - and I > > wouldn't argue with you - but you can't argue with the compiler! And > > it has it's purposes in a maths and physics, where such fine points > > are argued endlessly. > > > > The notation = can be seen as a mapping function and really should be > > denoted as <= or <- if this didn't exhaust the notation so > > > > x = x + 1 > > > > the resultant value of the function "x+1" replaces the previous value > > that x had. So "=" does not equal "similarity" or identity. So the = > > notation is probably the equivalent of 'has': in the previous previous > > paragraph, the statements "a has the value of 1" and "b has the value > > of 1" is denoted by > > > > a = 1 > > b = 1 > > > > Similarity has a lot of play in geometry - "polygons are similar if > > their corresponding (matching) angles are equal and the ratio of their > > corresponding sides are in proportion." So "like" has a very precise > > meaning. So for similarity, we have the notation of: > > > > =~ (or tilda over the equals). > > > > HTH > > > > Roger > > > > On 10/22/06, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > > > When I took physics one of the > > > > first things the professor said was that '=' means 'is like' not 'is' > > > > even though we say 'is'. > > > > > > That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched > > > confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the difference > > > clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is like", to me. What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should be > > > taken to be more like the copula? I mean, it would really throw all the metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just > > > expressed a relation that entailed similarity, and maybe that's good enough reason to say that it does, but the more i think about this sentence > > > above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > Suspicion breeds confidence > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 22 10:40:48 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:40:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net><004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <005f01c6f5e8$11923490$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > >I take = to mean mathematically identical. >> >> --Bob G. > > The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. > > Robin Your words = mine . . . I think. . . . Cheers, Bobin > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 10:59:01 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:59:01 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> <004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: Yes, Bob is right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_identity and robin is right as well. and I am right. So we all go home happy!!! Roffles!!! FWIW, I was trying to ... umm ... I forget. Maybe mathematics cannot substitute for language? It simplifies and homogenises ... experience? So, (object)Bob (is a (type Human) {inherits from}) (type)deer but Bob is a deer in that he locks horns with another stag on the windy heath. Roger On 10/22/06, Robin Hamilton wrote: > >I take = to mean mathematically identical. > > > > --Bob G. > > The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 12:22:44 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:22:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Books a poet should own... Message-ID: In a message dated 10/22/2006 6:59:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, jfq at myuw.net writes: Phenomenology is, loosely, an anti-scientific approach to the natural world founded on the lionization of the first person rather than the third person. It privileges metaphysics over physics and as such is largely speculative and depends on the investment of jargon with special meanings that generally divest philosophers working in the hegel-husserl-heidegger-derrida tradition of the ability to say anything meaningful whatsoever. Even, however, accepting the phenomenologist at his word and taking the inquiry to be investigating something real in its claim to be describing Being as it exists "before" or "behind" objects, is what phenomenological power then /is/ is the power to reveal this being? But then how does metaphor have any such power. Metaphor is a kind of relation between objects, it says "some object and some other object are interchangable in some way." If all that this "power" amounts to is the ability to isolate the essence that all things in common have in common, then i fail to see how the resulting phenomenological statement that "all things which are, in fact ARE." then it seems to be that Zwicky is making a big deal out of something so painfully tautological that it's a little bit embarassing she's bothering to say it. A phenomenon is an experience...hence you could read Zwicky simple as saying the "experiential power of both metaphor and thisness....", with Thisness as a nod to notions found in Heidegger. If metaphor has any power, and certainly as poets we hope it does, it is not in the "either" object yoked into proximity/overlap/comparison. In a sense metaphor's power has nothing to do with either object, and its phenomenon (powerful or weak) is a 'third thing', if you 'experience' it as such...and she does. Finnegan The phenomenological power of both metaphor and /this/ness derives from > an awareness of an extreme tension between being and time. /This/ness is > the lyric comprehension of this tension; an instant of time opens to > embrace the resonance of all that is; time is present, but > suspended?held in balance. Metaphor, by contrast, is a from of domestic > understanding: wholeness overrides morality, but does not erase it. The > distinction of things remains the foundation of their resonant > connexion. In metaphor, gestalts glitter: those inflected by being and > those inflected by time, flashing back and forth over the hinge of what > is common. > ?Jan Zwicky, Wisdom and Metaphor, #67 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 12:31:43 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:31:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: _Kazmandu at aol.com_ (mailto:Kazmandu at aol.com) wrote: > When I took physics one of the > first things the professor said was that ?=? means ?is like? not ?is? > even though we say ?is?. Yesterday I was at Translation conference (translation from a philosophical, political and sociological perspective) and I'm definitely now of the mind that in language there can never be 'means' but only 'is like'. The translator's ideal remains 'means' but s/he must settle for 'is like'. There are bi-directional gains and losses in this, of course, for both the source and target language. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Oct 22 12:34:28 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 17:34:28 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net><004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <009a01c6f5f7$f49042a0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> > Yes, Bob is right. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_identity > > and robin is right as well. > > and I am right. So we all go home happy!!! Roffles!!! Whee!!! Tomorrow I intervene in the "What *Is Philosophy?" thread on poetryeyc. > FWIW, I was trying to ... umm ... I forget. Maybe mathematics cannot > substitute for language? I'd tend to say it certainly can't, and shouldn't be confused with it. Even "computer languages" are a different kettle of cattle from either English and Irish or algebra. But I'd see that as almost too obvious -- so what about the case of set theory? This could be couched in a variety of modes -- Human language ("Bob Grumman is a Hoozier but Roger Day and Robin Hamilton are not {British/English and Scottish}, but all three are males. [Probably, with all the caveats that cybernetic identity implies.]") -- symbolic logic -- mathematics. And within "pure" maths, couched in symbols or presented as Venn Diagrams. Dunno. Just a thought. Robin Korzybski-Was-Right Hamilton From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 12:58:59 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 12:58:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: <587.87bac38.326cfd53@aol.com> In a message dated 10/22/2006 5:26:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kazmandu at aol.com writes: Quote from Zwicky: ?Metaphor will remind you of deep beauty of math...which most of us lost sight of somewhere before our finals in Algebra II.? That was not Zwicky...that was my tout line for her book, Wisdom & Metaphor. As aside there was interesting notion that came up in the conference yesterday and it dates I'm sure to the Socratic period: Philosophy is a decadent endeavor. By which, I think, we are to see philosophy as an elaborate superstructure that has been built over the humble well of wisdom. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 13:36:40 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:36:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? Message-ID: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> In a message dated 10/21/2006 2:13:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob Here's an idea prompted by this quote from Bob's collected aphorisms. If you were to stock a poet's personal library, filling it with the essential and odd books a poet should own or have ready access to, what titles would be in it? Note: no books of poems allowed...since those books are presumed to be in libris already. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Oct 22 13:52:05 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:52:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? References: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> Message-ID: <015901c6f602$c9d40280$43de3052@ANNY> I was good at maths, and wouldn't dislike going back to read/study some; philosophy, literature, just drop in some books in the bag... From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:36 PM In a message dated 10/21/2006 2:13:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob Here's an idea prompted by this quote from Bob's collected aphorisms. If you were to stock a poet's personal library, filling it with the essential and odd books a poet should own or have ready access to, what titles would be in it? Note: no books of poems allowed...since those books are presumed to be in libris already. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 13:58:16 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 13:58:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Word into Art... Message-ID: _http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=3D/arts/2006/09/24/svfreud=24. xml_ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=3D/arts/2006/09/24/svfreud=24.xml) The British Museum's new exhibition demonstrates the imaginative ways in which artists across the Middle East and North Africa are using the power of the written word in their art today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 14:07:41 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:07:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Word into Art..., correct URL Message-ID: _http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Slideshow/slideshowContentFrameFragXL.jhtml?x ml=/arts//slideshows/wordintoart//pixwordintoart.xml&site=arts_ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Slideshow/slideshowContentFrameFragXL.jhtml?xml=/arts//slid eshows/wordintoart//pixwordintoart.xml&site=arts) try this url for... The British Museum's new exhibition demonstrates the imaginative ways in which artists across the Middle East and North Africa are using the power of the written word in their art today -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Oct 22 14:19:15 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:19:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Word into Art..., correct URL References: Message-ID: <017b01c6f606$9534f3f0$43de3052@ANNY> I was reminded of Carla Accardi: http://www.berlin1989.com/Anglais/NicosiaGB/theArtists/Accardi_GB.html this the only typical painting I found of her when she worked with Forma 1. A brief outline here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F00EFD6103AF93BA25751C0A9639C8B63 ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Word into Art..., correct URL http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Slideshow/slideshowContentFrameFragXL.jhtml?xml=/arts//slideshows/wordintoart//pixwordintoart.xml&site=arts try this url for... The British Museum's new exhibition demonstrates the imaginative ways in which artists across the Middle East and North Africa are using the power of the written word in their art today ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 14:38:05 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:38:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <009a01c6f5f7$f49042a0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net> <004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <009a01c6f5f7$f49042a0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: Reductive tools are useful, and can bootstrap us somewhere else ... Set theory is attractive - a poem can belong to multiple sets: set of forms, set of poems, set of poems by author A. A poem is, potentially, a set of paratactical statements. If I were to design a database, then, yes, I would be using set theory. I would not be chewing a biscuit, no matter what packet you gae me. Would I be able to postulate a flying pig from set theory? Possibly. I'd still have to see the devious little bugger. Surely, if we are silent on the objective level, we're knocking on Heidegger's door? OTOH, the map being the territory knocks us into superceding reallity, the hyperreal? Roger On 10/22/06, Robin Hamilton wrote: > > But I'd see that as almost too obvious -- so what about the case of set > theory? This could be couched in a variety of modes -- Human language ("Bob > Grumman is a Hoozier but Roger Day and Robin Hamilton are not > {British/English and Scottish}, but all three are males. [Probably, with all > the caveats that cybernetic identity implies.]") -- symbolic logic -- > mathematics. And within "pure" maths, couched in symbols or presented as > Venn Diagrams. > > Dunno. Just a thought. > > -Was-Right Hamilton > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Oct 22 15:50:21 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:50:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? In-Reply-To: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> References: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> Message-ID: <6850A439-FFCB-4A4C-9009-C256A0B08C71@ripon.edu> I tend to shy away from a phrase like "should own," but the phrase "odd books" draws me mothlike to its flame. I assume that works like the OED are obvious enough, and not very odd. But some books always within reach on my desk that may not be on others' might include: *Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable* (I own three separate editions, from 1894 through 1992, and find myself unable to part with any). *Who's What: Aaron's Beard to Zorn's Lemma* by Dorothy Rose Blumberg. *The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Quotations*. *All Music Guide to Jazz*, 4e. *Poetry & the Age*, Randall Jarrell. The single book of critical prose I most often reread. On Oct 22, 2006, at 12:36 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Here's an idea prompted by this quote from Bob's collected aphorisms. > If you were to stock a poet's personal library, filling it with the > essential > and odd books a poet should own or have ready access to, what titles > would be in it? > > Note: no books of poems allowed...since those books are presumed > to be in libris already. > Finnegan > > ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 15:53:02 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:53:02 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Word into Art..., correct URL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My review: Good exhibition of Middle East artists using Arabic scripts in intricate and interesting ways. It's quite small and each piece is very intense. Some were plays around Kufic script - very geometric - some with religious phrases, other with literary quotations, both modern and ancient poets. Some signs of western influence - abstract, collage, graffiti and photoshop appear in the younger artists. Also signs of the Israeli, Western occupation. Also words from exiles. In the first instance the beauty and inventiveness of the artists with typography fascinated and inspired me. A couple. Offered Eyes, Shirin Neshat, Iran/USA, inscribed the words of "I feel sorry for the garden" by Forough Farokhzad into the white of a woman's eye on a photograph. This is the translated version: No one is thinking about the flowers No one is thinking about the fish No one wants to believe that the garden is dyng that the garden's heart has swollen under the sun that the garden is slowly forgetting its green moments Rashm by Wijdan, Jordan featured the words Rashm I by Charbel Dagher. The words were inscribed on vertically hung scarves, red and gold. Veiling their faces, a translucent cover Of impressions and shapes Emanates from their ghosts, And penetrates into their bodies... A hasty encounter In the door-way: Long enough To defer payment of accounts And renew contract Between passengers and captain. All in all, a fascinating exhibition and well worth seeing if you're interested in text-image crossovers. Roger -- On 10/22/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Slideshow/slideshowContentFrameFragXL.jhtml?xml=/arts//slideshows/wordintoart//pixwordintoart.xml&site=arts > > try this url for... > > The British Museum's new exhibition demonstrates the imaginative ways in > which artists across the Middle East and North Africa are using the power of > the written word in their art today > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sun Oct 22 16:18:25 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:18:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? In-Reply-To: <015901c6f602$c9d40280$43de3052@ANNY> References: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> <015901c6f602$c9d40280$43de3052@ANNY> Message-ID: I've just gone through the process of sifting my book collection, reducing the books from 3 largish shelves to 1. Fair breaks my heart. So, what remains? Dictionaries and grammar (at least one non-English), Syntax, translation and language - Saussure's Linguistics, Performance - Peter Brooks' On Theatre (anything by Brecht or Stanislavski), Philosophy - Russell's History of Western Philosophy. Something from your childhood - Wind In The Willows Picture Books - Rackham, Duriac, Kay Nielsen Fonts, Typography Science Fiction - Bradbury or Vonnegut or Ballard. EE "Doc" Smith, Heinlen or Cordwainer Smith for the trashier moments. History - History of French Literature, Beevor's Stalingrad, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich Cooking - Classic italian cookery or french cooking. Even poets have to eat sometimes ... LitCrit - Literary Theory Roger On 10/22/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > I was good at maths, and wouldn't dislike going back to read/study some; > philosophy, literature, just drop in some books in the bag... > > From: JforJames at aol.com > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:36 PM > > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2006 2:13:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > > > The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. > > bad Bob > > > > Here's an idea prompted by this quote from Bob's collected aphorisms. > If you were to stock a poet's personal library, filling it with the > essential > and odd books a poet should own or have ready access to, what titles > would be in it? > > Note: no books of poems allowed...since those books are presumed > to be in libris already. > Finnegan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ Suspicion breeds confidence From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 22 16:25:54 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:25:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <453B5C1C.8020800@myuw.net><004801c6f5e2$48bb3440$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><008201c6f5e3$010a2060$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <007601c6f618$4cd4f2b0$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Yes, Bob is right. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_identity Well, if the wikipedia says I'm right, I may have to recant. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Oct 22 16:42:38 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:42:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? References: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> Message-ID: <009901c6f61a$9f71b650$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> In a message dated 10/21/2006 2:13:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob Here's an idea prompted by this quote from Bob's collected aphorisms. If you were to stock a poet's personal library, filling it with the essential and odd books a poet should own or have ready access to, what titles would be in it? Note: no books of poems allowed...since those books are presumed to be in libris already. Finnegan My first thought is that no books (about poetics, which is what you're calling for, James?) are essential for a poet to own. I think a good one to own is I. A. Richards's Practical Criticism, which seems to have been the first or one of the first books to suggest the ability to reason and analyze are required for full appreciation of poetry. John Ciardi's How Can A Poem Mean (or whatever) seems another good one in the same line. Eliot's collections of criticism are worth having, too. Pound's ABC. My feeling is that these are just books I've read and enjoyed, but that there are probably a lot of others at their level. I wouldn't list anything by any philosopher I know about, certainly not Wittgenstein. Nor by any current mainstream American critic. Kenneth Burke's best, whatever it is, would probably be on my list, but I've never read anything but scattered essays and parts of essays of his. My own Of Manywhere-at-Once doesn't go very deeply or originally into poetics, being only introductory (with more volumes to follow) and as much intended to bring innovative poetry to the fore as to discuss poetics, but seems to me as worthy of being on the list as anything by an American for the past twenty years. Yeah, I'm biased. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Oct 22 17:22:15 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:22:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? References: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> <009901c6f61a$9f71b650$28b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <001601c6f620$26694f60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> New Princeton Encyclopaedia of Poetry and Poetics (1993 edition, with Brogan's articles on metrics) Robin From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 18:19:39 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:19:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? Message-ID: The Three Perfections: Chinese Painting, Poetry, and Calligraphy by Michael Sullivan Publisher: George Braziller; Revised edition (October 1999) ISBN: 0807614521 Go for the 99 Braziller edition...illustrations are better. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Oct 22 18:27:24 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:27:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? References: <326.e1298ed.326d0628@aol.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c6f629$3f684d50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I'd include odd issues of National Geographic, chosen at random. The words of geology, botany and zoology are veins worth mining. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? In a message dated 10/21/2006 2:13:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: The bullshit component of both is close to 99%. bad Bob Here's an idea prompted by this quote from Bob's collected aphorisms. If you were to stock a poet's personal library, filling it with the essential and odd books a poet should own or have ready access to, what titles would be in it? Note: no books of poems allowed...since those books are presumed to be in libris already. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 22 18:36:54 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:36:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/22/2006 3:49:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: but the phrase "odd books" draws me mothlike Multum in Parvo an essay in poetic imagination by Carl Zigrosser Geo. Braziller, 1965 (that's two by Braziller, a press, that, as it happens, first published Charles Simic...coincidence?...I think not.) Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 22 19:51:04 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:51:04 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] What are the books a poet should own? References: Message-ID: <002a01c6f634$f13914a0$e9c50556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> A True Account of the History of the World Tiddlywinks Championship (Slzatdan Gurggleleyvitch, Zagreb & Cracow 1993 rev. 2006) including appendices on: 'Why England always win it'; 'Quantum events and the the non-localised operations of the human brain'; 'A Forensic Analysis of a Glasgow Meat pie'; and, not to be missed, the Relationship between Fibbonacci numbers, phi, that Golden Section, and the onslaught of bad translationese as Evidenced in pseudo-haiku in English. (That is translationese that doesn't even translate anything: a kind of lingua franca for the international poetry scene) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Sun Oct 22 21:58:35 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:58:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: In a message dated 10/22/2006 9:12:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: Message: 4 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:55:08 -0700 From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <453B5C1C.8020800 at myuw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > When I took physics one of the > first things the professor said was that ???=??? means ???is like??? not ???is??? > even though we say ???is???. That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the difference clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is like", to me. What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should be taken to be more like the copula? I mean, it would really throw all the metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just expressed a relation that entailed similarity, and maybe that's good enough reason to say that it does, but the more i think about this sentence above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. That sounds weird to me. As Wittgenstein pointed out in his review of Coffey's "The Science of Logic," a lot of people have a pretty entrenched confusion between the "is" that's the linguistic copula and the "is" that's an expression of Identity, and I've worked very hard to get the difference clear in my head. When I see "=" that means identity, or "is" not "is like", to me. When you use the term identity I assume you mean mathematical identity which is different from equality. (Roger pointed that out earlier) yet you seem to be using it in the context of ?equality?. ?Is like? is actually closer in meaning to mathematical identity for a mathematical identity can be true yet not equivalent. --------------------- What I take it he was saying was that in physics it should be taken to be more like the copula? Yes I believe you are right on target with what he was trying to say. In the example of the physics equation ?distance? = ?speed? multiplied by ?time?, ?distance? is associated to ?speed? multiplied by ?time? as opposed to it being semantically equivalent. A metaphor is where we are saying they are semantically equivalent but we know they are not. Through the fusion of these two concepts we arrive at something much greater than both as we try to wrap logic around an irrational statement. --------------------- I mean, it would really throw all the metaphysicians and mathematical logicians for a loop if "=" really just expressed a relation that entailed similarity, In some mathematical contexts ?=? is used to mean ?similar? (as in mathematical identity) and in some contexts it is not as in equivalent. --------------------- and maybe that's good enough reason to say that it does, but the more I think about this sentence above, the more confused I get. Would you mind expounding a bit on what your professor meant by that? I only got a B- in freshman physics. Thanks! Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Sun Oct 22 22:04:29 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:04:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: In a message dated 10/22/2006 9:12:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: Message: 6 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:58:02 -0700 From: "James Cervantes" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: <648208b60610220558t4d5562e8sdd669b2eec4d1b77 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed a-ness can be *like* b-ness but a can never be "equal to/with" b??? - Jim Message: 6 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:58:02 -0700 From: "James Cervantes" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Message-ID: <648208b60610220558t4d5562e8sdd669b2eec4d1b77 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed a-ness can be *like* b-ness but a can never be "equal to/with" b??? - Jim Jim, Yes I agree however, this gets right back to metaphor because a metaphor says a = b when we think it doesn?t. That is the wonderful thing about metaphor. Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Oct 22 22:14:56 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:14:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Right back to metaphor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 22, 2006, at 9:04 PM, Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > Jim, > Yes I agree however, this gets right back to metaphor because a > metaphor says a = b when we think it doesn?t. That is the > wonderful thing about metaphor. > > Cheers, > Kaz ================ The Motive for Metaphor You like it under the trees in autumn, Because everything is half dead. The wind moves like a cripple among the leaves And repeats words without meaning. In the same way, you were happy in spring, With the half colors of quarter things, The slightly brighter sky, the melting clouds, The single bird, the obscure moon-- The obscure moon lighting an obscure world Of things that would never be quite expressed, Where you yourself were never quite yourself And did not want nor have to be, Desiring the exhilarations of changes: The motive for metaphor, shrinking from The weight of primary noon, The A B C of being, The ruddy temper, the hammer Of red and blue, the hard sound-- Steel against intimation--the sharp flash, The vital, arrogant, fatal, dominant X. -- Wallace Stevens ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 22:31:46 2006 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Books In-Reply-To: <200610230147.k9N1lEoQ028925@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20061023023146.99045.qmail@web35511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A good bk for the library, Jean-Claude Pinson, _Habiter en poete_. Synthese brillante. Yours, Alex www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Oct 22 23:23:42 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:23:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: Message-ID: <002901c6f653$3a8b3d40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> << a-ness can be *like* b-ness but a can never be "equal to/with" b??? - Jim Jim, Yes I agree however, this gets right back to metaphor because a metaphor says a = b when we think it doesn?t. That is the wonderful thing about metaphor. Cheers, Kaz >> Except that the "is" of the metaphor (an assertion of identity) gains its meaning in relation (similarity and difference) to the "like" (assertion of partial likeness) of the simile. So here we have a case not simply of "is" as a linguistic rather than a philosophical or mathematical item, but as an element of the subset of the possible linguistic items, "is". Cross Venn Diagrams with de Saussure and you you get a brindled cat, not a Platonic moggy. Robin From editor at pavementsaw.org Sun Oct 22 23:55:33 2006 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <200610230147.k9N1lEoP028925@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20061023035533.8366.qmail@web83108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> James-- Books to own-- Christopher Alexander-- Synthesis of Form Silko--Almanac of the Dead Gunn Allen-- Sacred Hoop Haniel Long--Cabeza de Vaca Patchen -- Journal of Albion Moonlight Colson Whitehead-- John Henry Days & The Intuitionist Halprin--The RSVP Effect Tomasula-- VAS Momaday--House made of Dawn Israel Regardie-- The Golden Dawn Bateson--Steps to an Ecology of Mind Bachelard--Poetics of Space John Clarke-- From feathers to iron Pound-- ABC of reading, Guide to Kulchur, Literary Essays Susan Stewart-- On Longing (or any of the subsequent) Gramisci Harlan Hubbard--Any real book (not journal of...) van Alphen-- Francis Bacon Cezanne's notebooks Any treasury of the world's greatest letters, esp Schuster OED Websters 3rd Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Mon Oct 23 00:17:26 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:17:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: Message: 11 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:40:48 -0400 From: "Bob Grumman" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Message-ID: <005f01c6f5e8$11923490$28b831d0 at youro0kwkw9jwc> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response > >I take = to mean mathematically identical. >> >> --Bob G. > > The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. > > Robin Your words = mine . . . I think. . . . Cheers, Bobin Actually I see you gentlemen talking apples and oranges. Bob says he means ?= ? to mean ?mathematically identical? when all of his mathmaku uses ?=? in context to mean mathematical equivalent Correct me if I am wrong but Robin on the other hand is talking about language as a map always points at the territory as in ?signs and signifiers?. In addition I would like to add that his statement is true for pure mathematics as opposed to applied mathematics. I think we have a lot of confusion in this thread about what type of math we are talking about. From my perspective when it comes to using metaphor in a mathematical context I and Bob are talking about applied mathematics. Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Mon Oct 23 00:30:56 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:30:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: <417.dafc97e.326d9f80@aol.com> In a message dated 10/22/2006 6:59:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: _Kazmandu at aol.com_ (mailto:Kazmandu at aol.com) wrote: > When I took physics one of the > first things the professor said was that ???=??? means ???is like??? not ???is??? > even though we say ???is???. Yesterday I was at Translation conference (translation from a philosophical, political and sociological perspective) and I'm definitely now of the mind that in language there can never be 'means' but only 'is like'. The translator's ideal remains 'means' but s/he must settle for 'is like'. There are bi-directional gains and losses in this, of course, for both the source and target language. Finnegan Hi Jim, I am not sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that ?means? means ?=?? Are you saying there is no ?is? only ?is like?? Thanks, Kaz Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Mon Oct 23 00:46:34 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:46:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] could someone tell me what I am doing wrong here? Message-ID: <471.22991937.326da32a@aol.com> In a message dated 10/22/2006 6:59:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > When I took physics one of the > first things the professor said was that ???????=???????? means ??????? is like???????? not ???????is???????? > even though we say ???????is????????. It is not my intention to provide all this textual confusion sorry Kaz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.kelly at nyu.edu Mon Oct 23 00:50:14 2006 From: chris.kelly at nyu.edu (Christopher Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 00:50:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <20061023035533.8366.qmail@web83108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200610230147.k9N1lEoP028925@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <20061023035533.8366.qmail@web83108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David Thank you. Eclectic and brilliant. Well done. cbk -------------- next part -------------- James-- Books to own-- Christopher Alexander-- Synthesis of Form Silko--Almanac of the Dead Gunn Allen-- Sacred Hoop Haniel Long--Cabeza de Vaca Patchen -- Journal of Albion Moonlight Colson Whitehead-- John Henry Days & The Intuitionist Halprin--The RSVP Effect Tomasula-- VAS Momaday--House made of Dawn Israel Regardie-- The Golden Dawn Bateson--Steps to an Ecology of Mind Bachelard--Poetics of Space John Clarke-- From feathers to iron Pound-- ABC of reading, Guide to Kulchur, Literary Essays Susan Stewart-- On Longing (or any of the subsequent) Gramisci Harlan Hubbard--Any real book (not journal of...) van Alphen-- Francis Bacon Cezanne's notebooks Any treasury of the world's greatest letters, esp Schuster OED Websters 3rd Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Oct 23 05:01:17 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:01:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <417.dafc97e.326d9f80@aol.com> References: <417.dafc97e.326d9f80@aol.com> Message-ID: Maybe what we're straining to find is the word or concept "equivalence". Equivalence in maths is less strict than equals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_relation "Equivalence relations should rather be thought of as grouping together objects that are similar in some sense, see also the notion of partition below." There's that word similar. It also neatly brings in set theory. Roger On 10/23/06, Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 10/22/2006 6:59:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: > > _Kazmandu at aol.com_ (mailto:Kazmandu at aol.com) wrote: > > When I took physics one of the > > first things the professor said was that ???=??? means ???is like??? not > ???is??? > > even though we say ???is???. > > Yesterday I was at Translation conference (translation from a > philosophical, > political and sociological perspective) and I'm definitely now of > the mind that in language there can never be 'means' but only > 'is like'. The translator's ideal remains 'means' but s/he must settle for > 'is like'. There are bi-directional gains and losses in this, of course, > for both the source and target language. > Finnegan > > > Hi Jim, > > I am not sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that 'means' means > '='? > > Are you saying there is no 'is' only 'is like'? > > > > Thanks, > > Kaz > > Cheers, > Kaz > > http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ > http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Oct 23 06:11:28 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:11:28 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: References: <417.dafc97e.326d9f80@aol.com> Message-ID: Compare and contrast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_metaphor The former article offends my mathematical sensibility. the latter article seems to be a better handle on metaphor, and it, too strains for equivalence I think. Take the wiki article on the mathematical definition of equals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_%28mathematics%29 a = b where a = b in *all ways*, but metaphor (as defined in the above article) says that b only equals a in "some way". Mathematics knows no half-way house. It is "equal" or it is not otherwise you're using the wrong notation: "Two mathematical objects are equal if and only if they are precisely the same in every way. This defines a binary relation, equality, denoted by the sign of equality "=" in such a way that the statement "x = y" means that x and y are equal." In fact if you do a reverse lookup in wikipedia on Equals, it doesn't mention metaphor. Neither does the on-line chambers. As a side note, an "is a" relationship in Object-Oriented programming says, for example, a "Ford Mondeo" is a "Car", and this fits because Car is a Category, not a metaphor, a precise idealisation of the object that has four wheels and carries people, things. A ford mondeo is an adaptation of the type car. It is not an equals operator. Roger On 10/23/06, Roger Day wrote: > Maybe what we're straining to find is the word or concept > "equivalence". Equivalence in maths is less strict than equals. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_relation > > "Equivalence relations should rather be thought of as grouping > together objects that are similar in some sense, see also the notion > of partition below." > > There's that word similar. It also neatly brings in set theory. > > > Roger > > On 10/23/06, Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/22/2006 6:59:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: > > > > _Kazmandu at aol.com_ (mailto:Kazmandu at aol.com) wrote: > > > When I took physics one of the > > > first things the professor said was that ???=??? means ???is like??? not > > ???is??? > > > even though we say ???is???. > > > > Yesterday I was at Translation conference (translation from a > > philosophical, > > political and sociological perspective) and I'm definitely now of > > the mind that in language there can never be 'means' but only > > 'is like'. The translator's ideal remains 'means' but s/he must settle for > > 'is like'. There are bi-directional gains and losses in this, of course, > > for both the source and target language. > > Finnegan > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > I am not sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that 'means' means > > '='? > > > > Are you saying there is no 'is' only 'is like'? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kaz > > > > Cheers, > > Kaz > > > > http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > Suspicion breeds confidence > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 08:16:27 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 05:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20061023121627.98258.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Elizabeth Willis and Erasmus Darwin Meteoric Flowers AU70ST^RT A conference on digital writing Picking winners on Project Runway The Grand Piano An experiment in collective autobiography Found Objects The career of Louis Zukofsky the moment before he became widely famous The death of Gerry Studds and the use of new noun phrases A poets??? Encyclopedia versus A Poets??? Encyclopedia (d??j?? vu all over again) U.K. syllables, American ears The Age of Huts (compleat) The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley now in two volumes A novel in the form of blurbs? Lunar Follies by Gilbert Sorrentino Style guides and long lines on the web A response to Elizabeth Treadwell Battlestar Galactica -- replaying Iraq on the colony of New Caprica Prose and verse seen not as oppositional poles in the new chapbook by Aaron Kunin Some links to visual arts and especially the issue of women visual artists The poems of Gael Turnbull a major ???New American poet??? who wasn???t American at all http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 23 12:29:06 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Roger Day wrote: > Compare and contrast > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor > with > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_metaphor > > The former article offends my mathematical sensibility. the latter > article seems to be a better handle on metaphor, and it, too strains > for equivalence I think. > > Take the wiki article on the mathematical definition of equals: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_%28mathematics%29 > > a = b > > where a = b in *all ways*, but metaphor (as defined in the above > article) says that b only equals a in "some way". Mathematics knows no > half-way house. It is "equal" or it is not otherwise you're using the > wrong notation: > > "Two mathematical objects are equal if and only if they are precisely > the same in every way. This defines a binary relation, equality, > denoted by the sign of equality "=" in such a way that the statement > "x = y" means that x and y are equal." Generally speaking, that's very close to the definition of metaphysical identity, which I think is more pertinent to the idea of metaphor (being broader) than is mathematical identity. > In fact if you do a reverse lookup in wikipedia on Equals, it doesn't > mention metaphor. Neither does the on-line chambers. > > As a side note, an "is a" relationship in Object-Oriented programming > says, for example, a "Ford Mondeo" is a "Car", and this fits because > Car is a Category, not a metaphor, a precise idealisation of the > object that has four wheels and carries people, things. A ford mondeo > is an adaptation of the type car. It is not an equals operator. That's a very good definition of the linguistic copula function of "is" which is different than the identity function-again speaking more broadly in a metaphysical sense. To take a fairly well known example: "Scott is the author of Waverly" is identity, because "Scott" and "The Author of Waverly" are different names for the same thing. But "The King of France is Bald" is the copula. Baldness not being a category, but rather an adjective. I think a lot of people make a lot of errors trying to go further with adjectives than that, making of them classes and categories and sets, but I tend to side with uncle ludwig that adjectives are often vague terms that describe different objects that are related to eachother in a fashion similar to the way members of a family resemble eachother. From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 23 12:29:30 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:29:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: <458.68379091.326e47ea@aol.com> In a message dated 10/23/2006 12:31:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kazmandu at aol.com writes: I am not sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that ?means? means ?=? ? Are you saying there is no ?is? only ?is like?? Kaz, I'm saying the latter...The whole notion of using mathematical symbols in the context of language/metaphor is useful only to a point. But on the subject of translation and also related to books a poet should own, I nominate... Nineteen Ways of Looking at Wang Wei editors Eliot Weinberger and Octavio Paz Publisher: Moyer Bell Ltd. (1987) ISBN: 0918825148 Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Mon Oct 23 13:21:09 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:21:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Comments inline ... On 10/23/06, jfq at myuw.net wrote: > > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Roger Day wrote: > > > Compare and contrast > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor > > with > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_metaphor > > > > The former article offends my mathematical sensibility. the latter > > article seems to be a better handle on metaphor, and it, too strains > > for equivalence I think. > > > > Take the wiki article on the mathematical definition of equals: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_%28mathematics%29 > > > > a = b > > > > where a = b in *all ways*, but metaphor (as defined in the above > > article) says that b only equals a in "some way". Mathematics knows no > > half-way house. It is "equal" or it is not otherwise you're using the > > wrong notation: > > > > "Two mathematical objects are equal if and only if they are precisely > > the same in every way. This defines a binary relation, equality, > > denoted by the sign of equality "=" in such a way that the statement > > "x = y" means that x and y are equal." > Generally speaking, that's very close to the definition of metaphysical identity, which I think is more pertinent to the idea of metaphor (being broader) than is mathematical identity. "In logic, the identity relation is normally defined as the relation that holds only between a thing and itself. That is, identity is the two-place predicate, "=", such that for all x and y, "x = y" is true iff x is the same thing as y." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_%28philosophy%29) "if and only if" is the breaker here. In my mundane world, x and y can be independant. All the world's a stage ... exeunt pursued by bear. > > In fact if you do a reverse lookup in wikipedia on Equals, it doesn't > > mention metaphor. Neither does the on-line chambers. > > > > As a side note, an "is a" relationship in Object-Oriented programming > > says, for example, a "Ford Mondeo" is a "Car", and this fits because > > Car is a Category, not a metaphor, a precise idealisation of the > > object that has four wheels and carries people, things. A ford mondeo > > is an adaptation of the type car. It is not an equals operator. > > That's a very good definition of the linguistic copula function of "is" which is different than the identity function-again speaking more broadly in a metaphysical sense. > > To take a fairly well known example: "Scott is the author of Waverly" is identity, because "Scott" and "The Author of Waverly" are different names for the same thing. > > But "The King of France is Bald" is the copula. Baldness not being a category, but rather an adjective. I think a lot of people make a lot of errors trying to go further with adjectives than that, making of them classes and categories and sets, but I tend to side with uncle ludwig that adjectives are often vague terms that describe different objects that are related to eachother in a fashion similar to the way members of a family resemble eachother. There is a category Stage, and the world is a class which inherits (type)Stage. It depends on which part of the auditorium you look at a blackbird. Or have I got my metaphors mixed? As for books owned by poets, I nominate http://wikipedia.org/ Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 23 13:49:34 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:49:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante on drugs Message-ID: _http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25341-2409872,00.html_ (http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25341-2409872,00.html) Dante on drugs Peter Hainsworth Barbara Reynolds DANTE The poet, the political thinker, the man 488pp. I. B. Tauris. ?20. 1 845 11161 3 In many ways, we think we know where we are with Dante. As a writer who is eager to give his readers a moral education, he spells out intelligibly and forcefully what he thinks about a whole range of issues ? human responsibility, the proper relations between Church and State, what is wrong with contemporary society, and so on. Nor has he any hesitations about telling us about himself ? his love for Beatrice, his feelings at being exiled from Florence, his friends and enemies, his aims as a writer. The works and the personality may be rich and complex, and there is an obvious chasm between the early fourteenth century and the early twenty-first, but on the whole we feel that we are reading him right, or at least that with appropriate efforts on our part we should be able to do so. Then we reach a limit and the picture begins to crumble -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 23 15:01:46 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:01:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante on drugs References: Message-ID: <004301c6f6d5$b0082ab0$03e83652@ANNY> This is all very interesting. About 2 or 3 years ago at a meeting on Dante, the speakers were able to show that he was in contact with secret sects that studied Eastern mysteries, that he made use of drugs, and so many other things. As it often happens when we support our thesis, the examples quoted fit like a glove, the ones we omit are the disturbing points. I was recently surprised (through the study of Canto XXV by Pound) to notice that he put Tiresias in the fourth pit of the eighth circle of Hell, and as Wikipedia recites: "(the circle is for perpetrators of fraud and the fourth pit being the location for soothsayers or diviners.) He was condemned to walk for eternity with his head twisted toward his back; while in life he strove to look forward to the future, in Hell he must only look backward. Tiresias' daughter Manto is also assigned her punishment here." Tiresias in my imagination is one of the sweetest characters. Something like this disturbs me and I have no idea of his reasons for doing so. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:49 PM http://tls.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25341-2409872,00.html Dante on drugs Peter Hainsworth Barbara Reynolds DANTE The poet, the political thinker, the man 488pp. I. B. Tauris. ?20. 1 845 11161 3 In many ways, we think we know where we are with Dante. As a writer who is eager to give his readers a moral education, he spells out intelligibly and forcefully what he thinks about a whole range of issues ? human responsibility, the proper relations between Church and State, what is wrong with contemporary society, and so on. Nor has he any hesitations about telling us about himself ? his love for Beatrice, his feelings at being exiled from Florence, his friends and enemies, his aims as a writer. The works and the personality may be rich and complex, and there is an obvious chasm between the early fourteenth century and the early twenty-first, but on the whole we feel that we are reading him right, or at least that with appropriate efforts on our part we should be able to do so. Then we reach a limit and the picture begins to crumble -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 23 16:06:31 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:06:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Merton Reflection Message-ID: <006f01c6f6de$bb91e070$03e83652@ANNY> Thought for the day: "Prayer is the only form of revolt that stays standing up." from The Merton Reflection for the Week of October 23, 2006 "Poetry is the only form of revolt that stays standing up." Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Oct 23 16:24:21 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:24:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Merton Reflection References: <006f01c6f6de$bb91e070$03e83652@ANNY> Message-ID: <002301c6f6e1$3a004ad0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 4:06 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] from Merton Reflection Thought for the day: "Prayer is the only form of revolt that stays standing up." from The Merton Reflection for the Week of October 23, 2006 "Poetry is the only form of revolt that stays standing up." Not my poetry. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 23 17:45:24 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:45:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine and Kinnell interviewed Message-ID: _http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/articles/061030on_onlineonly02_ (http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/articles/061030on_onlineonly02) Working Poets Issue of 2006-10-30 Posted 2006-10-23 This week, the magazine publishes poems by Philip Levine and Galway Kinnell. The New Yorker?s poetry editor, Alice Quinn, talks with these two longtime contributors about how they discovered their vocation, the impact of the Vietnam War, and the process of revision. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 23 18:56:33 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:56:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: Message-ID: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > >I take = to mean mathematically identical. >> >> --Bob G. > > The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. > > Robin Your words = mine . . . I think. . . . Cheers, Bobin Actually I see you gentlemen talking apples and oranges. Bob says he means ?=? to mean ?mathematically identical? when all of his mathmaku uses ?=? in context to mean mathematical equivalent It's, ahem, "mathEmaku," Kaz. And they aren't mathematics, they are poems that use mathematics equaphorically. So, if one of my mathemaku (and few use "=") says, "the apples of my boyhood = the oranges that crashed into the dreams of fifteenth-century Spain," I mean that the apples in my metaphorical equation are metaphorically mathematically identical to my oranges. That is, for me, the = retains its mathematical meaning in my poetry just as much as the + or - signs do. You've lost me with your contrast of pure and applied math. To me they both use = the same way. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 23 19:33:37 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:33:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] math and poetry Message-ID: _http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/_ (http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/) (http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/) Hendree, howdy...take a look at this blog. Scroll down to Aug 24th...hope your classes are going better. Maybe we should meet this week. Jim Finnegan Jim Finnegan 860-561-8696 x302 860-521-0358 home 860-508-2810 at large -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 23 19:36:22 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:36:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] math and poetry Message-ID: That was misdirected email...I was showing my math-poet friend Kaz's blog. n a message dated 10/23/2006 7:34:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: _http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/_ (http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/) (http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/) Hendree, howdy...take a look at this blog. Scroll down to Aug 24th...hope your classes are going better. Maybe we should meet this week. Jim Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope at icubed.com Mon Oct 23 21:21:27 2006 From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: <55025.205.201.10.98.1161652887.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> "The Book of Sand" Jorge Luis Borges ============ Richard Dillon From Kazmandu at aol.com Tue Oct 24 03:10:27 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 03:10:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own Message-ID: <376.c8ed9d6.326f1663@aol.com> In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:12:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: << a-ness can be *like* b-ness but a can never be "equal to/with" b??? - Jim Jim, Yes I agree however, this gets right back to metaphor because a metaphor says a = b when we think it doesn? ?!"t. That is the wonderful thing about metaphor. Cheers, Kaz >> Except that the "is" of the metaphor (an assertion of identity) gains its meaning in relation (similarity and difference) to the "like" (assertion of partial likeness) of the simile. So here we have a case not simply of "is" as a linguistic rather than a philosophical or mathematical item, but as an element of the subset of the possible linguistic items, "is". Cross Venn Diagrams with de Saussure and you you get a brindled cat, not a Platonic moggy. Robin Robin, Why is it important to draw attention to an idea that the 'is' of metaphor is an element in the subset of the possible linguistic items "is"? And while a metaphor gains some meaning in relation to similarity and difference I see it functioning more as an augmented integration of the constituent parts as opposed to some similarity and difference of those parts. Platonic moggy? I am not sure it even exists. Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Oct 24 03:44:25 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:44:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] math and poetry References: Message-ID: <005401c6f740$3ab07bd0$88a83252@ANNY> I love that pOm! ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] math and poetry That was misdirected email...I was showing my math-poet friend Kaz's blog. n a message dated 10/23/2006 7:34:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ Hendree, howdy...take a look at this blog. Scroll down to Aug 24th...hope your classes are going better. Maybe we should meet this week. Jim Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt at hotmail.com Tue Oct 24 04:03:12 2006 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:03:12 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] new issue of zine (Poetry Sz) Message-ID: hello, Poetry Sz:demystifying mental illness, Issue 21, featuring the work of Michael P. Workman, Lois Marie Harrod, Joel Fry, Steve Dalachinsky, Aldo Tambellini, Charles Frederickson, and Stan Dunn is now online at http://poetrysz.blogspot.com . Submissiona for the next issue is now open. Please send 4-6 poems and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at yahoo.com . Thanks. regards Jill Chan editor, PoetrySz _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Oct 24 04:25:14 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:25:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: umm, computer languages are applied math, no? What is the difference? Roger On 10/23/06, Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:40:48 -0400 > From: "Bob Grumman" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <005f01c6f5e8$11923490$28b831d0 at youro0kwkw9jwc> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > > > > >I take = to mean mathematically identical. > >> > >> --Bob G. > > > > The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. > > > > Robin > > Your words = mine . . . I think. . . . > > Cheers, Bobin > > > > Actually I see you gentlemen talking apples and oranges. Bob says he means > '=' to mean "mathematically identical" when all of his mathmaku uses '=' in > context to mean mathematical equivalent > > > > Correct me if I am wrong but Robin on the other hand is talking about > language as a map always points at the territory as in 'signs and > signifiers'. In addition I would like to add that his statement is true for > pure mathematics as opposed to applied mathematics. I think we have a lot > of confusion in this thread about what type of math we are talking about. > From my perspective when it comes to using metaphor in a mathematical > context I and Bob are talking about applied mathematics. > > Cheers, > Kaz > > http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ > http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 24 06:28:12 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 06:28:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'm curious, since I'm about the only one who answered the question: what books, if any, ought a poet own--as a poet--that is, as opposed to what books one thinks are good books? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Oct 24 09:34:20 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:34:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I'm not being entirely flippant here when I say, define me a poet. If you are a poet writing in the English Language, then The Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetics. A history of English literature, whether in a series or a single volume. Some books on litcrit (of a favourite area - mine is Pound). With Pound as my starting point, I spread out to Browning, Propertius, Catullus, the vorticists, the imagists, Biographies of poets of interest. Dictionaries - SOED at the very least, but also a variety: Chambers, Oxford Concise. Slang dictionary - Cassells (Johnathon Green) or Partridge. Thesauraus Linguistics and Grammar - Describing Language, Syntax, The English Verb, something by either Quirk and/or Greenbaum. Etymology? I saw Skeat's book going from ?110 this morning ... umm ... As my practice doesn't extend to traditional form, I may be light in this area, but Hobsbaum form and meter was pretty good. I've got rhyming dictionary somewhere but I've only found that moderately useful. Then the hinterland might extend to philosophy, economics, history. But what, as part of your practice, if you translate poetry? I'm interested in French poetry so a set of books parallel to the above in french for me then Roger On 10/24/06, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I'm curious, since I'm about the only one who answered the question: what > books, if any, ought a poet own--as a poet--that is, as opposed to what > books one thinks are good books? > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 24 09:51:46 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:51:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine and Kinnell interviewed References: Message-ID: <004001c6f773$929f2200$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Good interview. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:45 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine and Kinnell interviewed http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/articles/061030on_onlineonly02 Working Poets Issue of 2006-10-30 Posted 2006-10-23 This week, the magazine publishes poems by Philip Levine and Galway Kinnell. The New Yorker?s poetry editor, Alice Quinn, talks with these two longtime contributors about how they discovered their vocation, the impact of the Vietnam War, and the process of revision. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Tue Oct 24 13:45:11 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: What I have on my desk right now and most of the time so they're in arms reach: JI Rodale's "The Synonym Finder" Ludwig Wittgenstein's "Philosophical Investigations" Paul Feyerabends "Against Method" A good book on Syntactic Theory. A good book on the dialects of the language they're writing. A good book on phonetics and phonology. The Compact OED - a pricy book but worth every penny. Ralph Steadman's "Leonardo" On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'm curious, since I'm about the only one who answered the question: what books, if any, ought a poet own--as a poet--that is, as opposed to what books one thinks are good books? > > --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Oct 24 13:50:26 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:50:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08330FD3-24A8-4AAA-BA63-518C32CF930A@earthlink.net> Any book that lifts him/her/it high enough to reach the keyboard. Hal "I would horsewhip you if I had a horse." --Groucho Marx Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I'm curious, since I'm about the only one who answered the >> question: what books, if any, ought a poet own--as a poet--that >> is, as opposed to what books one thinks are good books? >> >> --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Oct 24 14:57:22 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:57:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > I'm not being entirely flippant here when I say, define me a poet. Well, I'd say that to the degree you are not being flippant, you're being silly or obtuse. This is clearly a discussion group of and for English-speakers--primarily about North American and British poetry. A poet is whatever a poet is to you. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 24 15:49:32 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:49:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, elemenope at icubed.com writes: "The Book of Sand" Jorge Luis Borges Borges Selected Non-Fictions Penguin (2000) ISBN: 0140290117 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Oct 24 16:13:07 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:13:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <731bb17a0610241313o5ff0da88j5f702d9d7fd57f07@mail.gmail.com> I've been reading Octavio Paz's *The Bow & the Lyre*. I don't feel qualified to say that it's essential reading, but I like the book a lot. Jeff Newberry On 10/24/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > elemenope at icubed.com writes: > > "The Book of Sand" > Jorge Luis Borges > > Borges Selected Non-Fictions > Penguin (2000) > ISBN: 0140290117 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 24 17:21:35 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:21:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] My calendar says it's Mole Day... Message-ID: <482.59b36812.326fdddf@aol.com> Where do the roots go? Look down under the leaves. Who put the moss there? Those stones have been here too long. Who stunned the dirt into noise? Ask the mole, he knows. --Theodore Roethke, form "The Lost Son, Part II: The Pit" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Oct 24 17:42:15 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:42:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] ryhming can help you speak again! Message-ID: http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/good_news_day.html Dilbert regains voice! Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 24 19:19:51 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:19:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] When You Know Too Much Message-ID: When You Know Too Much None of the change in your pockets will satisfy the newspaper box at the corner, It can?t be coaxed open with any denomination other than a screwdriver. Only an illiterate would read between the lines. When you know too much it?s easy to stare into the middle distance. A piece of shrapnel in the chest might be mistaken for a medal. It?s easy to see the origami ballots floating in the river. Your ears attune themselves and start to pick up stray signals out of the air. The words are hard to make out, but the static sounds like The Constitution ripping. You might have to wring the knowledge from your brain like dirty water from a sponge. When you know too much it?s easy to taste heavy metals in a glass of beer. Every chair in the theatre aches to receive you, to feel you fall back into the plush as the lights go down and another dream begins to unfold upon the screen. So what if you can?t tell smoke from clouds anymore.. When you know too much it?s easy to see through walls, even inside the labyrinth of the mall. Now they call the slum the historic district. But people are still sleeping under highway ramps. When you know too much it?s easy to forget: Amnesia is a country, isn?t it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 24 20:45:34 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:45:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My calendar says it's Mole Day... References: <482.59b36812.326fdddf@aol.com> Message-ID: <002501c6f7ce$e2283f90$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Mole day? Is there really one? I have the Roethke on my homepage with my collection of mole poems. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] My calendar says it's Mole Day... Where do the roots go? Look down under the leaves. Who put the moss there? Those stones have been here too long. Who stunned the dirt into noise? Ask the mole, he knows. --Theodore Roethke, form "The Lost Son, Part II: The Pit" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Oct 25 00:37:45 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:37:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Dylan and Timrod Message-ID: Well, here it is: Subterranean Timrod Blues Sleep sweetly, martyrs Men of the tall hearts Now are NASCAR starters Shopping in the Wal-Marts See the pausing pilgrim Cotton mill, sitting still Say it's a bitter pill Too much time to kill Seeds of laurel Looking for a quarrel Fame is blown Now you're on your own Yet no marble column craves Country ham to the bone The man in the gimme cap In the extreme zone Needs a bunch of big bills Small tributes, make a loan. Blossom of your big fame Flowers in a red flame Stoop, angels, hither Watch magnolias wither Shaft is in the stone Blossom of your fame is blown Leave that girl alone Cooking up the cornpone Seeds of laurel It's your quarrel No holier spot of ground Can be found around For a penny or a pound Listen to the bugles sound Where the graves abound Every one a dirty mound Somewhere waiting for its birth By mourning beauty crowned Stoop, angels, hither from Bugle, fife, and drum Some come, a small sum Less than a single crumb Shades will smile, meanwhile Act smart, look dumb Trust your storied tombs And these memorial blooms Seeds of laurel You'll get a quarrel Behalf the tardy years Shedding lots of tears Think about new careers Crying in your beers Where defeated valor lies With teardrops in his eyes Dreaming of General Lee And the Confederacy Small tributes but your shades Shall overlook this bay And somewhere, in the air Is a Southern croix de guerre Go a mile and see Stuckey Buy pecans and get lucky More proudly on these wreaths Seeds of laurel Here's a quarrel Sisters bring their tears today To overlook this bay Rip a bag from Frito-Lay Raise a ruckus, sing Ol?! Pilgrim here to pause Better obey the laws Don't ever fly the flag It'll make them gag ?Cause the symbol makes ?em tremble -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Wed Oct 25 03:12:22 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:12:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] metaphor Message-ID: In a message dated 10/24/2006 9:13:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: In a message dated 10/23/2006 12:31:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kazmandu at aol.com writes: I am not sure of what you are saying. Are you saying that 'means' means '=' ? Are you saying there is no 'is' only 'is like' Kaz, I'm saying the latter...The whole notion of using mathematical symbols in the context of language/metaphor is useful only to a point. Jim, It seems to me if there is no 'is' only 'is like' then there would be no reason to the word simile to exist. This belief seems to take all the magic out of metaphor and leaves it in a dry explicit world. Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Wed Oct 25 03:15:39 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:15:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Venn Diagrams Message-ID: Robin, It dawned on me what you were saying about the Venn diagrams no need to explain ... Thanks! Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kazmandu at aol.com Wed Oct 25 03:37:09 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 03:37:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 27 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/24/2006 9:13:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: umm, computer languages are applied math, no? What is the difference? Roger On 10/23/06, Kazmandu at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:40:48 -0400 > From: "Bob Grumman" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <005f01c6f5e8$11923490$28b831d0 at youro0kwkw9jwc> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > > > > >I take = to mean mathematically identical. > >> > >> --Bob G. > > > > The map is not the territory -- *except in mathematics. > > > > Robin > > Your words = mine . . . I think. . . . > > Cheers, Bobin > > > > Actually I see you gentlemen talking apples and oranges. Bob says he means > '=' to mean "mathematically identical" when all of his mathmaku uses '=' in > context to mean mathematical equivalent > > > > Correct me if I am wrong but Robin on the other hand is talking about > language as a map always points at the territory as in 'signs and > signifiers'. In addition I would like to add that his statement is true for > pure mathematics as opposed to applied mathematics. I think we have a lot > of confusion in this thread about what type of math we are talking about. > From my perspective when it comes to using metaphor in a mathematical > context I and Bob are talking about applied mathematics. > > Cheers, > Kaz > > http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ > http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ > This needs to be addressed to Bob Grumman as well .... since it addresses the difference in pure math and applied math Roger, I have to preface this with fact that I view this whole conversation through my colored glasses of mathematical poetry. The point that I am trying to make is that I am hard pressed to find metaphor expressed in pure mathematics ... maybe you have some ideas. However, mathematical poetry (and metaphor) live in the realm of applied mathematics ... so the = sign functions differently between the maths ... and I am not sure where our confusion is in the context of CS Cheers, Kaz http://mathematicalpoetry.blogspot.com/ http://www.kazmaslanka.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 06:13:09 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:13:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I guess I was trying to essay the point that a poet's practice defines what books they may find neccessary to own. If I may take the liberty of choosing two poets I take to take to be exemplars, David Bircumshaw and Miekal And - they seem to me to be two people whose practices are very far apart on a messily defined grid that might cover all examples of practice in the region that you quote. To me, if I state what books a poet must own, I must have some idea of what or who the poet is and I can only choose myself as the marker in this regard so there is a confusion between "what books are good" and "what a poet must own": to me, in the context of the question stated, they are one and the same. For example, if I was being prescriptive, I could state with absolute certainty that a poet must own the miniature version of the OED. Instead, I aim for the worthier goal of being descriptive. One day I'll open my mouth and I will have thought through every damn word I utter. On second thoughts maybe that's not such a worthy goal. Roger On 10/24/06, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > I'm not being entirely flippant here when I say, define me a poet. > > Well, I'd say that to the degree you are not being flippant, you're being > silly or obtuse. This is clearly a discussion group of and for > English-speakers--primarily about North American and British poetry. A poet > is whatever a poet is to you. > > --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From schloss at mail.com Wed Oct 25 06:50:46 2006 From: schloss at mail.com (Christopher Walker) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:50:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] My calendar says it's Mole Day... References: <482.59b36812.326fdddf@aol.com> <002501c6f7ce$e2283f90$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <01eb01c6f823$6dc48fa0$0500a8c0@your403379e445> Mole day? Is there really one? There is indeed: 23 October; created (apparently) to increase awareness of chemistry, which no doubt it has done enormously. And yesterday, by an extravagant coincidence, I came across a compound of the word: 'centimoles', used as a measure of the strength of substances in dilution. So in hospitals (the context in which I heard it) it is used to describe the distribution of additives in drips and suchlike. CW _______________________________________________ 'Listen people, I don't know how you expect to ever stop the war if you can't sing any better than that' - Country Joe McDonald, Woodstock 1969 From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 07:11:20 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:11:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] My calendar says it's Mole Day... In-Reply-To: <01eb01c6f823$6dc48fa0$0500a8c0@your403379e445> References: <482.59b36812.326fdddf@aol.com> <002501c6f7ce$e2283f90$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <01eb01c6f823$6dc48fa0$0500a8c0@your403379e445> Message-ID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_%28measurement%29 "The mole (symbol: mol) is the SI base unit that measures an amount of substance. One mole contains Avogadro's number (approximately 6.022?1023) entities. A mole is much like a dozen in that both units can describe any set of elementary objects, although the mole's use is usually limited to measurement of subatomic, atomic, and molecular structures, as a mole represents an exceedingly large number of entities." and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_Day "Mole Day is an unofficial holiday celebrated among chemists in North America on October 23, between 6:02 AM and 6:02 PM, making the date 6:02 10/23 in the American style of writing dates. The time and date are derived from Avogadro's number, which is approximately 6.02?1023, defining the number of particles (atoms or molecules) in a mole, one of the seven base SI units." Roger On 10/25/06, Christopher Walker wrote: > > Mole day? Is there really one? > > > There is indeed: 23 October; created (apparently) to increase awareness of > chemistry, which no doubt it has done enormously. And yesterday, by an > extravagant coincidence, I came across a compound of the word: 'centimoles', > used as a measure of the strength of substances in dilution. So in hospitals > (the context in which I heard it) it is used to describe the distribution of > additives in drips and suchlike. > > CW > _______________________________________________ > > 'Listen people, I don't know how you expect to ever stop the > war if you can't sing any better than that' > - Country Joe McDonald, Woodstock 1969 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 08:59:29 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 05:59:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] When You Know Too Much In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60610250559m5cf7d897nccb2132f9ed89f7@mail.gmail.com> On 10/24/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > When You Know Too Much > > > > None of the change in your pockets > > will satisfy the newspaper box at the corner, > > It can't be coaxed open with any > > denomination other than a screwdriver. > > Only an illiterate would read between > > the lines. When you know too much > > it's easy to stare into the middle distance. > > > > A piece of shrapnel in the chest might > > be mistaken for a medal. It's easy to see the origami > > ballots floating in the river. Your ears attune > > themselves and start to pick up stray signals > > out of the air. The words are hard to make out, > > but the static sounds like The Constitution > > ripping. You might have to wring > > > > the knowledge from your brain like dirty water > > from a sponge. When you know too much > > it's easy to taste heavy metals in a glass of beer. > > Every chair in the theatre aches to receive you, > > to feel you fall back into the plush > > as the lights go down and another dream > > begins to unfold upon the screen. > > > > So what if you can't tell smoke from clouds > > anymore.. When you know too much it's easy > > to see through walls, even inside the labyrinth > > of the mall. Now they call the slum the historic district. > > But people are still sleeping under highway ramps. > > When you know too much it's easy to forget: > > Amnesia is a country, isn't it? Yes, and not at all "like." -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 25 10:35:16 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:35:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Venn Diagrams Message-ID: Factoid: Recenlty I learned that Venn diagrams were not really invented by John Venn...an English mathematician and cleric. Many other emminent mathematicians were using similar diagrams in the work in set theory and logic. Liebniz, Boole, etc. But Venn published a book wherein he made suggestions and refinements as to how these diagrams should be used. Hence the diagrams became known as Venn Diagrams even though Venn could not take credit for being the first to employ them. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Wed Oct 25 11:22:27 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:22:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own References: Message-ID: <00c101c6f849$623cca50$c5089942@Helen> a blank one ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, elemenope at icubed.com writes: "The Book of Sand" Jorge Luis Borges Borges Selected Non-Fictions Penguin (2000) ISBN: 0140290117 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Wed Oct 25 12:00:48 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Reb Livingston, Bruce Covey, and Michelle Noteboom -- THIS FRIDAY In-Reply-To: <003d01c6f79a$7df4fe70$6500a8c0@toshibauser> Message-ID: <20061025160048.46650.qmail@web83103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MiPOesias presents ***** Bruce Covey, Michelle Noteboom, and Reb Livingston ***** 7 P.M., Friday, October 27, 2006 STAIN BAR 766 Grand Steet Brooklyn , NY 11211 (718) 387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com [Grand stop on the L TRAIN] Michelle Noteboom won the 2006 Heartland Poetry Prize for her first book "Edging" (Cracked Slab Books). Other work has appeared in Verse, Fence, Boston Review, Sentence, Columbia Poetry Review and Gargoyle, among others. She's lived mainly in Paris since 1991 where she co-curates the Ivy Writers Reading Series with Jennifer K. Dick. She works as a freelance translator in the French audiovisual industry. She also translates French poetry. Reb Livingston is the co-editor of No Tell Motel and the anthology THE BEDSIDE GUIDE TO NO TELL MOTEL. She is the author of two chapbooks, PTERODACTYLS SOAR AGAIN (Whole Coconut) and WANTON TEXTILES (No Tell Books), a collaboration with Ravi Shankar. Her poems have appeared in Best American Poetry 2006, Coconut, MiPOesias and other publications. Bruce Covey teaches at Emory University and is the author of The Greek Gods as Telephone Wires and the forthcoming Ten Pins, Ten Frames (Front Room Publishers, March) and Elapsing Speedway Organism (No Tell Books, Fall 2006). His recent poems also appear or are forthcoming in The Hat, Bombay Gin, Explosive Magazine, LIT, Boog City, One Less, 580 Split, Small Town, and other journals. He edits the web-based poetry magazine Coconut and curates the What?s New in Poetry reading series in Atlanta. We hope to see you there! Amy King and Didi Menendez http://www.mipoesias.com http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ STAIN is a unique arts lounge dedicated to local products and talent. --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 13:25:33 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:25:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In-Reply-To: <00c101c6f849$623cca50$c5089942@Helen> References: <00c101c6f849$623cca50$c5089942@Helen> Message-ID: <648208b60610251025w252fb97fx5e49f11419397e4b@mail.gmail.com> Yes, absolutely, though it be of sand! - Jim On 10/25/06, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > a blank one > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > elemenope at icubed.com writes: > "The Book of Sand" > Jorge Luis Borges > > Borges Selected Non-Fictions > Penguin (2000) > ISBN: 0140290117 > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ________________________________ > My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and > corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from > www.choicemailfree.com. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 25 16:09:10 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:09:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: Predilections: literary essays by Marianne Moore Viking Press 1955 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Oct 25 17:16:40 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:16:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own References: Message-ID: <002f01c6f87a$dd0db740$3cee3652@ANNY> The Idiot by Dostojevsky Alfred Jarry Raymond Roussel: Locus Solus ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Predilections: literary essays by Marianne Moore Viking Press 1955 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Oct 25 18:13:42 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:13:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In-Reply-To: <002f01c6f87a$dd0db740$3cee3652@ANNY> References: <002f01c6f87a$dd0db740$3cee3652@ANNY> Message-ID: Raymond Queneau, Exercises in Style Hal "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --William S. Burroughs Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Oct 25, 2006, at 5:16 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > The Idiot > by Dostojevsky > > Alfred Jarry > Raymond Roussel: Locus Solus > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:09 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own > > Predilections: literary essays > by Marianne Moore > Viking Press 1955 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Oct 25 20:38:06 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:38:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> >I guess I was trying to essay the point that a poet's practice defines > what books they may find neccessary to own. I thought the question was really a request for people to define what a poet was by revealing what books they thought he ought to have. I admit to only being half in this thread, at most (and being semi-playfully argumentative, but lacking the zip to make that clear). I was a little irritated that people were mostly just listing books they liked, not books that would help potts more than non-poets. I was also thinking mainly of standard poets--what I call solitextual poets ("solely textual poets")--because they predominate at this list. >If I may take the liberty > of choosing two poets I take to take to be exemplars, David Bircumshaw > and Miekal And - they seem to me to be two people whose practices are > very far apart on a messily defined grid that might cover all > examples of practice in the region that you quote. I'll take it up with my officers. I think we may be able to grant you that liberty, but I need to study the matter further before coming to a clear decision. > To me, if I state > what books a poet must own, I must have some idea of what or who the > poet is and I can only choose myself as the marker in this regard so > there is a confusion between "what books are good" and "what a poet > must own": to me, in the context of the question stated, they are one > and the same. Well, when I restated the question, I thought I emphasized "what books are good"--and earlier I had said I didn't think any books were necessary for a poet. > For example, if I was being prescriptive, I could state > with absolute certainty that a poet must own the miniature version of > the OED. Lots of people say something like that. I don't see it. I have the OED but don't think I've ever used it for poetry. I use it a lot for prose, especially when neologizing. > Instead, I aim for the worthier goal of being descriptive. Seems to me the question requires prescriptiveness (and don't see that that's a bad thing--so long as it isn't militarily enforced). > One day I'll open my mouth and I will have thought through every damn > word I utter. On second thoughts maybe that's not such a worthy goal. Well, at least check the definition of every other word you utter in the OED. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Wed Oct 25 21:13:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:13:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet and short-story writer Linh Dinh Message-ID: _http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20061025-9999-lz1mi25poet.html _ (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20061025-9999-lz1mi25poet.html) By Triveni Sheshadri TODAY'S LOCAL NEWS October 25, 2006 SAN MARCOS ? Poet and short-story writer Linh Dinh's works are populated by the poor, the uprooted and the dispossessed. He writes about citizenship, community and what it feels like to straddle cultures. Dinh, 43, should know. At age 11, he fled Vietnam with his family and moved to Philadelphia, where he grew up. He has lived in England, Italy and Vietnam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Oct 26 03:37:23 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:37:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In-Reply-To: <648208b60610251025w252fb97fx5e49f11419397e4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <00c101c6f849$623cca50$c5089942@Helen> <648208b60610251025w252fb97fx5e49f11419397e4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: the book of death the book of love On 10/25/06, James Cervantes wrote: > Yes, absolutely, though it be of sand! > > - Jim > > On 10/25/06, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > > > > a blank one > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: JforJames at aol.com > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > elemenope at icubed.com writes: > > "The Book of Sand" > > Jorge Luis Borges > > > > Borges Selected Non-Fictions > > Penguin (2000) > > ISBN: 0140290117 > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > ________________________________ > > My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and > > corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from > > www.choicemailfree.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Oct 26 12:41:27 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:41:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet and short-story writer Linh Dinh References: Message-ID: <005301c6f91d$95dd3d70$17df3052@ANNY> Linh Dinh is a great boy! There are numerous translations he did into Italian of his own poetry on the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=64 from the original English into German by Gerd Burger: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=63 Poems by Cesare Pavese translated by Linh Dinh into English, + 1 translated by Henry Gould: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=29 and finally Linh Dinh writes in English here: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=176 I should ask him to send some poems in Vietnamese! ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:13 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet and short-story writer Linh Dinh http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20061025-9999-lz1mi25poet.html By Triveni Sheshadri TODAY'S LOCAL NEWS October 25, 2006 SAN MARCOS ? Poet and short-story writer Linh Dinh's works are populated by the poor, the uprooted and the dispossessed. He writes about citizenship, community and what it feels like to straddle cultures. Dinh, 43, should know. At age 11, he fled Vietnam with his family and moved to Philadelphia, where he grew up. He has lived in England, Italy and Vietnam. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Oct 26 12:42:20 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:42:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own References: <002f01c6f87a$dd0db740$3cee3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <006201c6f91d$b525a9b0$17df3052@ANNY> Also, The Lord of the Rings. I love Tolkien.. From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:13 AM Raymond Queneau, Exercises in Style Hal "A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on." --William S. Burroughs Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Oct 25, 2006, at 5:16 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: The Idiot by Dostojevsky Alfred Jarry Raymond Roussel: Locus Solus ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Predilections: literary essays by Marianne Moore Viking Press 1955 ______ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Oct 26 15:31:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:31:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own References: <00c101c6f849$623cca50$c5089942@Helen><648208b60610251025w252fb97fx5e49f11419397e4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005e01c6f935$4f8cac80$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> > the book of death > the book of love from Situations: ...Cringing in her heart, Elizabeth sighs as she recollects, "My mother, damn you! But it wasn't art That saved us. It was" ...sobbing... "it was sex!" But as she speaks, Elizabeth dissects The closely textured strata of her heart, Wondering how much she's dismissed as sex, Mundane, profane and soiled, is really art. Her mother and her Major-was it art? Elizabeth considers the effects: Rhythm and symmetry-a basic chart, Room for improvisation. She reflects, And wonders, wonders, who wrote the book of sex? In Chapter One, she loves with all her heart, With someone from above to pen the text; In Chapter Two, it seems they have to part. Then Chapter Three. That chapter would not start Till she recalled the meaning of romance. Does Chapter Four show sex revealed as art? She has to give her mother one more chance. > > On 10/25/06, James Cervantes wrote: >> Yes, absolutely, though it be of sand! >> >> - Jim >> >> On 10/25/06, Helen Ruggieri wrote: >> > >> > >> > a blank one >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: JforJames at aol.com >> > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:49 PM >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> > elemenope at icubed.com writes: >> > "The Book of Sand" >> > Jorge Luis Borges >> > >> > Borges Selected Non-Fictions >> > Penguin (2000) >> > ISBN: 0140290117 >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and >> > corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail >> > from >> > www.choicemailfree.com. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > Suspicion breeds confidence > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From elemenope at icubed.com Thu Oct 26 20:26:29 2006 From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In-Reply-To: <200610261600.k9QG05oQ011000@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200610261600.k9QG05oQ011000@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <50028.205.201.10.98.1161908789.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Senor Borges believed that of all his books, it is this one, "The Book of Sand," that will survive the ravages of fate and the aversions of incommensurable dimensions. He says one thing more: Of the texts his hand has generated, "The Book of Sand" alone would he recommend to the reader seeking in the labyrinths of libraries that may in remote countries still exist to be read and to be the only book to be reread and read again for it is the last book you are fated to read for the remainder of a very singular mortal's existence. Richard Dillon > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:25:33 -0700 > From: "James Cervantes" > Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own > > Yes, absolutely, though it be of sand! > > - Jim > > On 10/25/06, Helen Ruggieri wrote: >> >> >> a blank one > From: "Roger Day" > Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own > > the book of death > the book of love > > On 10/25/06, James Cervantes wrote: >> Yes, absolutely, though it be of sand! >> >> - Jim >> >> On 10/25/06, Helen Ruggieri wrote: >> > >> > >> > a blank one >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: JforJames at aol.com >> > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:49 PM >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 10/23/2006 9:25:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> > elemenope at icubed.com writes: >> > "The Book of Sand" >> > Jorge Luis Borges >> > >> > Borges Selected Non-Fictions >> > Penguin (2000) >> > ISBN: 0140290117 From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 27 11:47:34 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:47:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Utterly unasked for Message-ID: <0139C630-0D37-4748-ABBF-D8E2BC1FE1E5@ripon.edu> On her birthday, a poem by Sylvia Plath. She was younger than Snyder, Rich, Levine, Walcott, Ashbery, Merwin, Snodgrass, Kumin, Wilbur, and others who are still among us. Imagine what she might have written in the past forty-plus years. . . . Poppies in October Even the sun-clouds this morning cannot manage such skirts. Nor the woman in the ambulance Whose red heart blooms through her coat so astoundingly -- A gift, a love gift Utterly unasked for By a sky Palely and flamily Igniting its carbon monoxides, by eyes Dulled to a halt under bowlers. O my God, what am I That these late mouths should cry open In a forest of frost, in a dawn of cornflowers. --Sylvia Plath ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Oct 27 11:51:31 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:51:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wilbur on Plath Message-ID: One of my favorite Richard Wilbur poems-- Cottage Street, 1953 Framed in her phoenix fire-screen, Edna Ward Bends to the tray of Canton, pouring tea For frightened Mrs. Plath; then, turning toward The pale, slumped daughter, and my wife, and me, Asks if we would prefer it weak or strong. Will we have milk or lemon, she enquires? The visit seems already strained and long. Each in his turn, we tell her our desires. It is my office to exemplify The published poet in his happiness, Thus cheering Sylvia, who has wished to die; But half-ashamed, and impotent to bless, I am a stupid life-guard who has found, Swept to his shallows by the tide, a girl Who, far from shore, has been immensely drowned, And stares through water now with eyes of pearl. How large is her refusal; and how slight The genteel chat whereby we recommend Life, of a summer afternoon, despite The brewing dusk which hints that it may end. And Edna Ward shall die in fifteen years, After her eight-and-eighty summers of Such grace and courage as permit no tears, The thin hand reaching out, the last word love, Outliving Sylvia who, condemned to live, Shall study for a decade, as she must, To state at last her brilliant negative In poems free and helpless and unjust. --Richard Wilbur [The following note has been provided by Richard Wilbur:] "Edna Ward was Mrs. Herbert D. Ward, my wife's mother. The poet Sylvia Plath (1932-1963) was the daughter of one of Mrs. Ward's Wellesley friends. The recollection is probably composite, but it is true in essentials." ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dick at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com Fri Oct 27 15:04:31 2006 From: dick at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com (dick at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:04:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Utterly unasked for Message-ID: <200610271906.k9RJ6A1u024003@d01av01.pok.ibm.com> //Palely and flamily //Igniting its carbon monoxides, by eyes //Dulled to a halt under bowlers. Say what???????? Richard From editor at pavementsaw.org Fri Oct 27 23:53:07 2006 From: editor at pavementsaw.org (David Baratier) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Why thank you. It is unfortunate the direction this discussion has taken otherwise. Why ask a question if you do not wish the answer? A number of amateurs are wishing recognition by mentioning singular books rather than lay out some indication that they are serious readers but I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Even that crappy sex poem gave me a thorough giggle. Too bad Halvard even plays into their positioning as I always thot him of more substance than that. Oh well. Christopher Kelly wrote: David Thank you. Eclectic and brilliant. Well done. cbk James-- Books to own-- Christopher Alexander-- Synthesis of Form Silko--Almanac of the Dead Gunn Allen-- Sacred Hoop Haniel Long--Cabeza de Vaca Patchen -- Journal of Albion Moonlight Colson Whitehead-- John Henry Days & The Intuitionist Halprin--The RSVP Effect Tomasula-- VAS Momaday--House made of Dawn Israel Regardie-- The Golden Dawn Bateson--Steps to an Ecology of Mind Bachelard--Poetics of Space John Clarke-- From feathers to iron Pound-- ABC of reading, Guide to Kulchur, Literary Essays Susan Stewart-- On Longing (or any of the subsequent) Gramisci Harlan Hubbard--Any real book (not journal of...) van Alphen-- Francis Bacon Cezanne's notebooks Any treasury of the world's greatest letters, esp Schuster OED Websters 3rd Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sat Oct 28 00:10:05 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:10:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] More "theme" poem stuff... In-Reply-To: <0139C630-0D37-4748-ABBF-D8E2BC1FE1E5@ripon.edu> References: <0139C630-0D37-4748-ABBF-D8E2BC1FE1E5@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <51BA99BA-8C8B-4A0E-9FD7-10D1EA915A48@earthlink.net> So, I know alot of "theme poem" talk comes up on this list--- and though I have an ambivalent relationship to theme poems-- sometimes I feel a cramped straining around a single conceit that, regardless of how great the 'verse' is, makes me feel the poem would make its point better were it an esaay or even journal entry--- sometimes they can really get me goin', make me wonder (in a good way, etc)-- or can be at least good fodder for the high and dry 'parlour game' aspects of this list... Anyway, just curious what some people's favorite poems structured around the theme of fasting, dieting, weight watching might be (you can also feel free to post examples of poems you consider bad). Jesus in the desert poems, etc.... If you can't come up with examples of great poems that make this theme the main conceit, even examples of LINES from a poem that might be "primarily" about something else (a break-up; Le Temps--weather-time--) etc. The two examples that come to my mind right now, are Lord Byron (it's recurrent in DON JUAN--the notion of "digestion" so intwined with his notion of social relations and one's relationship to a G-D etc...) and Leonard Cohen; in his volume DEATH OF A LADIES' MAN.... but I am curious what others might have come up.... Chris From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Oct 28 16:08:31 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:08:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001b01c6facc$d74c6be0$1caf3452@ANNY> thit thot thot, I like Halvard Johnson's playering ___ what's the problem? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baratier To: Christopher Kelly ; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 Why thank you. It is unfortunate the direction this discussion has taken otherwise. Why ask a question if you do not wish the answer? A number of amateurs are wishing recognition by mentioning singular books rather than lay out some indication that they are serious readers but I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Even that crappy sex poem gave me a thorough giggle. Too bad Halvard even plays into their positioning as I always thot him of more substance than that. Oh well. Christopher Kelly wrote: David Thank you. Eclectic and brilliant. Well done. cbk James-- Books to own-- Christopher Alexander-- Synthesis of Form Silko--Almanac of the Dead Gunn Allen-- Sacred Hoop Haniel Long--Cabeza de Vaca Patchen -- Journal of Albion Moonlight Colson Whitehead-- John Henry Days & The Intuitionist Halprin--The RSVP Effect Tomasula-- VAS Momaday--House made of Dawn Israel Regardie-- The Golden Dawn Bateson--Steps to an Ecology of Mind Bachelard--Poetics of Space John Clarke-- From feathers to iron Pound-- ABC of reading, Guide to Kulchur, Literary Essays Susan Stewart-- On Longing (or any of the subsequent) Gramisci Harlan Hubbard--Any real book (not journal of...) van Alphen-- Francis Bacon Cezanne's notebooks Any treasury of the world's greatest letters, esp Schuster OED Websters 3rd Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 17:07:27 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:07:27 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01cf01c6fad5$1ca018b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: David Baratier << A number of amateurs are wishing recognition by mentioning singular books rather than lay out some indication that they are serious readers but I have thoroughly enjoyed it. >> Um ... Another way of putting it would be that two different kinds of lists are appearing, one with pertinent texts, and the other with interesting-texts-on-my-shelves. (There might be a less kind way of describing the latter which, while interesting, can degenerate into a "my bookshelf is longer/more interesting/more esorteric than yours" game.) I concur over the dangers of simply naming a text without explanation or qualification, but what worries me more is a sometimes dangerous lack of specificity, which may simply reflect an assumption that "everyone knows" what is being referred to. Thus (forgive me Roger ), both Roger Day and I listed the (N)PEPP, but I'd want to say that it's fairly crucial to get the 1993 edition or later, with the articles on metrics revised or added to by T.V.F.Brogan. I could make the case as to why that book (the only one I mentioned, though I'd agree with most of the rest of Roger's list) and why that edition, but ... Roger? So far, I think the best suggestion by miles was Helen Ruggerie's, of a blank book, closely followed by dave bircumshaw's, if he ever wrote it. I'd chuck in here, partly because it's a book I've just just discovered, partly because it has easily the best short article on Sapphics that I've ever encountered [and the one caveat I had was that the article doesn't distinguish between the two lines within Sapphics written in English, the so-called English Sapphics, basically stemming from Isaac Watts' "Day of Judgement", and those which turn back directly to Latin or Greek, usually Horace]. Also at least one member of this list is represented there. And there's the piece by Fred Nims on writing a poem entirely (although he uses a different name, doesn't everyone? it's a code-word, as New Formalists have one name for it, a classicist like Frederick Nims uses another, and I call it the Lesser Ionic Ascending Foot) in X X / /. Boy, that was a class act, was +An Exaltation of Forms+! I have it on order, mostly because I couldn't work out how to steal it from the friend whose copy I was reading. Almost makes me want to try again with Annie Finch's own book on metrics. Almost. Slang dictionaries. Again, I think Roger mentioned this, and specified Jonathan Green's +Cassell Dictionary of Slang+. I'd agree, if you can have only one dictionary of slang, but I'd be interested to know why Roger picked that (as I would have done too) rather than the only other possible choice, the Beale/Partridge +Dictionary of Slang+. Then there's the OED. (Hi, Bob!) "Which OED?" isn't as silly a question as it sounds, since I've found apparently reputable personages use that set of intitials to, as it turned out, jeezuz wept refer to the Concise Oxford English Dictionary. Not that I'd ever think that was what Bob was doing, oh no indeedy, no nay never not even on a month of Sundays. Hm ... ? But Roger suggested either the SOED (oh, well, no one's perfect) or the microreduced one. There are two problems here, and one resolved issue. The current microreduced OED does at least print OED2, and there's a major change between OED1 and OED2, much larger than anything that happens later. And of course then we get into the baroque Oxford system of numbering the bloody things, crossed with some incompetent programming. OED2 was followed by OED2(3) on CD [which is the one I use], which was reissued as OED3 *after what is now OED4 started appearing. Except the CD of OED3 has an interesting little habit of refusing to install on some systems, and causing problems sometimes when it does, which can be ... annoying. So I'd specifically recommend OED2(3) on CD, rather than either OED3 or the microreduced edition, both of which are for almost all purposes identical with it in content. Except that Roger, being younger than some of us, doesn't feel on his pulse the way one's eyes degenerate with age, so that even with a magnifying glass ... So my original microreduced OED now resides, whether happily or not, with yet another member of this list. And there are, simply, things that you can find out using the [Advanced] search faciltites of an electronic version of the OED which aren't possible with a hard copy. As certain other members of this list who shall remain nameless, contributing to a thread started by Mark Weiss on poetryetc soliciting insight into the origins of "skinflint" will discover soon. Ha! Enough to make you skin a fox, and I intend to take Great Delight in [belatedly] demonstrating this. {Be afraid, Christopher, be very, very afraid ... } Then there's the OED4, in one sense the latest in a line stretching back to the original Oxford Dictionary of the English Language, or what is now known as OED1, which doesn't exist as a single text -- d'oh! -- but as an ongoing online project. But given Oxford's record on slang and contemporary usage, both in the OED itself and the Oxford Dictionary of Slang, I wouldn't trust that if *they paid *me to use it. (I bet they even manage to get it wrong on gonzo journalism.) A four volume re-edition of Patridge is due out in the next year or so, which ought to be a bit better, judging from past history. Anyway, just a few random thoughts. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Oct 28 17:16:01 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:16:01 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own In-Reply-To: <013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: On 10/26/06, Bob Grumman wrote: > >I guess I was trying to essay the point that a poet's practice defines > > what books they may find neccessary to own. > > I thought the question was really a request for people to define what a poet > was by revealing what books they thought he ought to have. I admit to only > being half in this thread, at most (and being semi-playfully argumentative, > but lacking the zip to make that clear). I was a little irritated that > people were mostly just listing books they liked, not books that would help > potts more than non-poets. You assume a lot there. I thought it was a request for information. No more, no less. > I was also thinking mainly of standard poets--what I call solitextual poets > ("solely textual poets")--because they predominate at this list. > > >If I may take the liberty > > of choosing two poets I take to take to be exemplars, David Bircumshaw > > and Miekal And - they seem to me to be two people whose practices are > > very far apart on a messily defined grid that might cover all > > examples of practice in the region that you quote. > > I'll take it up with my officers. I think we may be able to grant you that > liberty, but I need to study the matter further before coming to a clear > decision. Let us know and I'll pass it across my Staff, and they will give you an answer in due course. > > To me, if I state > > what books a poet must own, I must have some idea of what or who the > > poet is and I can only choose myself as the marker in this regard so > > there is a confusion between "what books are good" and "what a poet > > must own": to me, in the context of the question stated, they are one > > and the same. > > Well, when I restated the question, I thought I emphasized "what books are > good"--and earlier I had said I didn't think any books were necessary for a > poet. > > > For example, if I was being prescriptive, I could state > > with absolute certainty that a poet must own the miniature version of > > the OED. > > Lots of people say something like that. I don't see it. I have the OED but > don't think I've ever used it for poetry. I use it a lot for prose, > especially when neologizing. Very brave. > > Instead, I aim for the worthier goal of being descriptive. > > Seems to me the question requires prescriptiveness (and don't see that > that's a bad thing--so long as it isn't militarily enforced). > > > One day I'll open my mouth and I will have thought through every damn > > word I utter. On second thoughts maybe that's not such a worthy goal. > > Well, at least check the definition of every other word you utter in the > OED. > > --Bob G. Ach, you Americans. You aff no sense of humour. Guten nacht, mein herr. Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 17:26:20 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:26:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> >> > One day I'll open my mouth and I will have thought through every damn >> > word I utter. On second thoughts maybe that's not such a worthy goal. >> >> Well, at least check the definition of every other word you utter in the >> OED. >> >> --Bob G. > > Ach, you Americans. You aff no sense of humour. > > [Roger Day] And so trusting! Bob, do you mean to tell me that you actually treat the *definitions in the OED as if they had any evidential status? They're editorial constructions based on the citations given, backed up by some material not provided in the published text. And all too frequently wrong, even on the evidence of the citations in the work itself. They have no more and no other status than the editorial notes to a Shakespeare text. Bloody hell man, the book ain't the Bible!! ... or even Aristotle . Robin From tad at opus40.org Sat Oct 28 18:37:12 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:37:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005901c6fae1$9cc09450$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Crappy? ----- Original Message ----- From: David Baratier To: Christopher Kelly ; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 Why thank you. It is unfortunate the direction this discussion has taken otherwise. Why ask a question if you do not wish the answer? A number of amateurs are wishing recognition by mentioning singular books rather than lay out some indication that they are serious readers but I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Even that crappy sex poem gave me a thorough giggle. Too bad Halvard even plays into their positioning as I always thot him of more substance than that. Oh well. Christopher Kelly wrote: David Thank you. Eclectic and brilliant. Well done. cbk James-- Books to own-- Christopher Alexander-- Synthesis of Form Silko--Almanac of the Dead Gunn Allen-- Sacred Hoop Haniel Long--Cabeza de Vaca Patchen -- Journal of Albion Moonlight Colson Whitehead-- John Henry Days & The Intuitionist Halprin--The RSVP Effect Tomasula-- VAS Momaday--House made of Dawn Israel Regardie-- The Golden Dawn Bateson--Steps to an Ecology of Mind Bachelard--Poetics of Space John Clarke-- From feathers to iron Pound-- ABC of reading, Guide to Kulchur, Literary Essays Susan Stewart-- On Longing (or any of the subsequent) Gramisci Harlan Hubbard--Any real book (not journal of...) van Alphen-- Francis Bacon Cezanne's notebooks Any treasury of the world's greatest letters, esp Schuster OED Websters 3rd Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org_______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 28 19:14:46 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:14:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Bob, do you mean to tell me that you actually treat the *definitions in > the OED as if they had any evidential status? They're editorial > constructions based on the citations given, backed up by some material not > provided in the published text. And all too frequently wrong, even on the > evidence of the citations in the work itself. They have no more and no > other status than the editorial notes to a Shakespeare text. > > Bloody hell man, the book ain't the Bible!! > > ... or even Aristotle . > > Robin Come on, Rabblin, you knose me better than that! I'm as superior to the OED as you! But when I want to make up a word using some Greek or Latin suffix or prefix that's vaguely right, I'll check the OED (but not go by it, necessarily). Also, I rarely check it unless I can't find what I want in some less certified dictionary. (Oh, I should add that I check it quite a bit when arguing with people who don't believe in Will S. and use the OED to try to prove some point. I need to make sure what they say is there, is--and I do assume the quotations are accurate enough, and sometimes they're part of some argument.) By the way, the latest Shakespeare tip from the other side is that Antonio in Merchant is a Jew who converted to Christianity. Don't tell anyone you heard that from me, though--it may be secret info. --Bobblin From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Oct 28 19:55:11 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:55:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <01cf01c6fad5$1ca018b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <003801c6faec$84ddebc0$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> My OED's the thing with the magnifying glass, but probably twenty years older or more by now. I thought it was great when I first had it, but . . . -Bob From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 19:59:36 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:59:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <001b01c6faed$58042e60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> >> Bob, do you mean to tell me that you actually treat the *definitions in >> the OED as if they had any evidential status? SNIP > Come on, Rabblin, you knose me better than that! I'm as superior to the > OED as you! But when I want to make up a word using some Greek or Latin > suffix or prefix that's vaguely right, I'll check the OED (but not go by > it, necessarily). OK, fair does, but that's a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. > Also, I rarely check it unless I can't find what I want in some less > certified dictionary. (Oh, I should add that I check it quite a bit when > arguing with people who don't believe in Will S. and use the OED to try to > prove some point. Did you ever manage to convince Kent Johnson? I really thought better of Kent than that, and I'm still not entirely sure he isn't joking. A Doubled-Flowering Oxfordian surely beggars belief. When I'm being careful, I always cross-check the OED with the EMEDD over Renaissance terms. Sometimes the Ann Arbor MED. Sometimes even the SLD. Never, I have to say, Websters. > I need to make sure what they say is there, is--and I do assume the > quotations are accurate enough, and sometimes they're part of some > argument.) Yeah, but there are problems. Place in the OED I was looking at recently *really screws up a quotation from the Motteux continuation of Urquart's Rabelais, by missing out the context. "flay a flint" (I'm quoting off the top of my head) as cognate to "skinflint", whereas if you look at the surrounding text -- not quoted in the OED! -- it means "a wise person". Boy, am I ever going to enjoy gently pointing that out to Christopher Walker when I get round to putting The Real Truth on Skinflints together for poetryetc. > By the way, the latest Shakespeare tip from the other side is that Antonio > in Merchant is a Jew who converted to Christianity. Don't tell anyone you > heard that from me, though--it may be secret info. Angels wept. :-( Let's hope Hardy stamps hard on that if it gets anywhere near SHAKSPER and the Usual Suspects get in on the act. I think I've heard the idea floated a bit ago, but I can't think where. Usual nonsense, and it never does any good to say, "Where's the least shred of evidence?" Cheers, Robin From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sat Oct 28 20:09:05 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:09:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] crooks a poet should owe In-Reply-To: <003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <7010A4D6-AA64-4BA5-9DBD-FE5CB535BFAA@earthlink.net> I think it's really cool that Robin and Bob and I share this "other side" aspect (for the benefit of the others, I mean that we're also on a Shakespeare list....) Hey, Tad, (or others) are there any cool songwriters' lists out there you're on? ...hmmm....wondering if my "theme question" will remain unanswered or addressed... and, if so, is it coz I hit a nerve? or am just so 'out of the loop' so maybe i'll reframe the question some time.... in the meantime, I hold out hope that the extra hour I won't have to pay rent for until April will be a productive and/or fun one.... Oh yeah, and Lord Byron aside, reading Cohen's '78 Penguin "Death Of Ladies Man," is pretty fascinating--- Funny, how when all the 'low' and/or populist and/or popular or "accessible" poetry discussion comes up, there's a lot of Collins (Kooser?) and Bukowski (oh this might happen more on the other list---but I think it happens here too) but there hardly ever is Cohen.... Then we get the Merle, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, etc songwriters things much more on this list-- But Cohen is singularly fascinating to me, coz of having been trained as a page-poet and then doing the music thing--and sort of trying to come back to the page thing in "Death Of A ladies Man" (the book not the album of the same name) Oh, and a very interesting comparison could be made between the kinds of 'sexism' in Bukowski compared to Cohen---or, more benignly, gender issues-- so-called 'transgressive heterosexuality' (which may very well much more the norm than is let on--- Anyway, that's just my current little "poetry-related" obsession, being much younger than Cohen but going through similar struggles between these two specialized 'genres' and/or 'social worlds,' needing to put them into dialogue with each other in my own art, and "not just my own art"---- Chris On Oct 28, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > By the way, the latest Shakespeare tip from the other side is that > Antonio in Merchant is a Jew who converted to Christianity. Don't > tell anyone you heard that from me, though--it may be secret info. > > --Bobblin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Oct 28 20:36:11 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 20:36:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] crooks a poet should owe References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <7010A4D6-AA64-4BA5-9DBD-FE5CB535BFAA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004a01c6faf2$3c030ba0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Chris -- no, but if you find one, let me know. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Stroffolino To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] crooks a poet should owe I think it's really cool that Robin and Bob and I share this "other side" aspect (for the benefit of the others, I mean that we're also on a Shakespeare list....) Hey, Tad, (or others) are there any cool songwriters' lists out there you're on? ...hmmm....wondering if my "theme question" will remain unanswered or addressed... and, if so, is it coz I hit a nerve? or am just so 'out of the loop' so maybe i'll reframe the question some time.... in the meantime, I hold out hope that the extra hour I won't have to pay rent for until April will be a productive and/or fun one.... Oh yeah, and Lord Byron aside, reading Cohen's '78 Penguin "Death Of Ladies Man," is pretty fascinating--- Funny, how when all the 'low' and/or populist and/or popular or "accessible" poetry discussion comes up, there's a lot of Collins (Kooser?) and Bukowski (oh this might happen more on the other list---but I think it happens here too) but there hardly ever is Cohen.... Then we get the Merle, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, etc songwriters things much more on this list-- But Cohen is singularly fascinating to me, coz of having been trained as a page-poet and then doing the music thing--and sort of trying to come back to the page thing in "Death Of A ladies Man" (the book not the album of the same name) Oh, and a very interesting comparison could be made between the kinds of 'sexism' in Bukowski compared to Cohen---or, more benignly, gender issues-- so-called 'transgressive heterosexuality' (which may very well much more the norm than is let on--- Anyway, that's just my current little "poetry-related" obsession, being much younger than Cohen but going through similar struggles between these two specialized 'genres' and/or 'social worlds,' needing to put them into dialogue with each other in my own art, and "not just my own art"---- Chris On Oct 28, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: By the way, the latest Shakespeare tip from the other side is that Antonio in Merchant is a Jew who converted to Christianity. Don't tell anyone you heard that from me, though--it may be secret info. --Bobblin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schloss at mail.com Sat Oct 28 21:49:43 2006 From: schloss at mail.com (Christopher Walker) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:49:43 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <001b01c6faed$58042e60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <004801c6fafc$81761560$0500a8c0@your403379e445> Yeah, but there are problems. Place in the OED I was looking at recently *really screws up a quotation from the Motteux continuation of Urquart's Rabelais, by missing out the context. "flay a flint" (I'm quoting off the top of my head) as cognate to "skinflint", whereas if you look at the surrounding text -- not quoted in the OED! -- it means "a wise person". Boy, am I ever going to enjoy gently pointing that out to Christopher Walker when I get round to putting The Real Truth on Skinflints together for poetryetc. [Robin H] Mr Hamilton is being mischievous: 'skin a flint', which is what Motteux actually says, refers (figuratively; Cf V xvi) to extracting income by pressure. Those who do it are not wise so much as financially astute or even cheats. My lawyers will be in touch. CW _______________________________________________ 'It was really only in spelling out the decrees of the high command that we came to understand ourselves' - Kafka From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Oct 29 01:21:25 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 06:21:25 -0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Books a poet should own References: <00cb01c6f6f6$7e0e6c60$2bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><002801c6f757$1d7b19a0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004d01c6f79e$3e2da4f0$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><013301c6f897$04025650$66b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><01e901c6fad7$b8649530$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><003301c6fae6$dde87920$36b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><001b01c6faed$58042e60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004801c6fafc$81761560$0500a8c0@your403379e445> Message-ID: <007101c6fb22$80498700$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> > Mr Hamilton is being mischievous: 'skin a flint', which is what Motteux > actually says, refers (figuratively; Cf V xvi) to extracting income by > pressure. Those who do it are not wise so much as financially astute or > even > cheats. > > My lawyers will be in touch. > > CW After consultation with my financial advisors, agents, spin-doctors, and hair-stylist, I have been instructed to issue the following statement: "The disagreement between our client and Mr. C. Walker would seem to turn on the precise nature of the allegory in Chapter 16 of Book V of _Gargantua and Pantagruel_, by not-by-Rabelais, as translated (and expanded) by Motteux in 1694. Mr. Walker argues that this allegory is financial. Our client contends that it is a representation of the Platonic-hermetic-alchemical interests of the time(s). This statement in no way prejudices our client's right to draw attention to the earlier use of the term "flay-flint" by the dramatist Thomas Shadwell in 1672. Any further enquiries as to this dubiously-interesting issue should be directed at either our client, or Mr. Walker, or both, backchannel. Henry Thrib, for the Courts in Session" Rh. From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sun Oct 29 08:05:09 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 06:05:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sub Rosa" Message-ID: <648208b60610290505j4312d377pde386bec3f7e9703@mail.gmail.com> Sub Rosa So cozy? I don't think so; at least, he gave no external sign. Person? In light of what may happen to artists, art may be his thick right hand. The Agent, a timid booth with cell phone, inserts a five mark piece and calls his party. A hen, finding the eggs of a viper, carefully keeps them folded. The gate is closed -- the entrance made conceptual? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 29 18:04:56 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 18:04:56 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: The Necessary Angel Essays on Reality and the Imagination by Wallace Stevens -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 29 20:05:22 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:05:22 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) Message-ID: James Murray (OED editor) said he faced ?the terrible undertow of words.? What words say does not last. The words last. Because words are always the same and what they say is never the same. ?Antonio Porchia, from ?Voices,? translated by W. S. Merwin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Oct 29 20:14:09 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:14:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: The Life of Poetry by Muriel Rukeyser (republished in the last decade by Paris Press, so no excuses for not having it). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Oct 29 20:22:27 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:22:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) References: Message-ID: <002b01c6fbc1$dd222460$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I like that one a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) James Murray (OED editor) said he faced ?the terrible undertow of words.? What words say does not last. The words last. Because words are always the same and what they say is never the same. ?Antonio Porchia, from ?Voices,? translated by W. S. Merwin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 30 02:27:45 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:27:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) References: <002b01c6fbc1$dd222460$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <005b01c6fbf4$e5261cb0$068e3052@ANNY> Yes, Porchia gets it right. That is why literary translations will never be successful with a software. How Romantic is Murray. ----- Original Message ----- From: TheOldMole To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) I like that one a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) James Murray (OED editor) said he faced ?the terrible undertow of words.? What words say does not last. The words last. Because words are always the same and what they say is never the same. ?Antonio Porchia, from ?Voices,? translated by W. S. Merwin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Mon Oct 30 09:50:51 2006 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:50:51 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired notes Message-ID: <30050F5A-2826-49A9-9AB9-3576E559A872@ripon.edu> A thought from my morning's reading--by Tomas Transtr?mer: "I think it is time to emphasize that poetry--in spite of air the bad poets and bad readers -- starts from an advantageous position. A piece of paper, some words: it's simple and practical. It gives independence. Poetry requires no heavy, vulnerable apparatus that has to be lugged around, it isn't dependent on temperamental performers, dictatorial directors, bright producers with irresistible ideas. No big money is at stake. A poem doesn't come in one copy that somebody buys and locks up in a storeroom waiting for its market value to go up; it can't be stolen from a museum or become currency in the buying and selling of narcotics, or get burned up by a vandal. When I started writing, at sixteen, I had a couple of like-minded school friends. Sometimes, when the lessons seemed more than usually trying, we would pass notes to each other between our desks--poems and aphorisms, which would come back with the more or less enthusiastic comments of the recipient. What an impression those scribblings would make! There is the fundamental situation of poetry. The lesson of official life goes rumbling on. We send inspired notes to one another." ---- Tomas Transtr?mer. Translated by Judith Moffett. from "Answer to Uj Iras." Ironwood 13 (1979): 38-9. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Oct 30 09:56:51 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:56:51 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired notes anew In-Reply-To: <30050F5A-2826-49A9-9AB9-3576E559A872@ripon.edu> References: <30050F5A-2826-49A9-9AB9-3576E559A872@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <0CE4B8A8-D18F-4608-A692-ED5423E40A34@ripon.edu> Sorry for the typo in the previous Transtromer post. The quotation was also truncated. Here's the corrected text. "In my civilization it's customary to describe poetry as discarded, almost moribund, an all-too-exclusive art form, without power to break through. And the poets try to push themselves upon the world of the mass media, to get a few crumbs of attention. I think it is time to emphasize that poetry--in spite of all the bad poets and bad readers -- starts from an advantageous position. A piece of paper, some words: it's simple and practical. It gives independence. Poetry requires no heavy, vulnerable apparatus that has to be lugged around, it isn't dependent on temperamental performers, dictatorial directors, bright producers with irresistible ideas. No big money is at stake. A poem doesn't come in one copy that somebody buys and locks up in a storeroom waiting for its market value to go up; it can't be stolen from a museum or become currency in the buying and selling of narcotics, or get burned up by a vandal. When I started writing, at 16, I had a couple of like-minded school friends. Sometimes, when the lessons seemed more than usually trying, we would pass notes to each other between our desks--poems and aphorisms, which would come back with the more or less enthusiastic comments of the recipient. What an impression those scribblings would make! There is the fundamental situation of poetry. The lesson of official life goes rumbling on. We send inspired notes to one another." -- Tomas Transtr?mer. Translated by Judith Moffett. from "Answer to Uj Iras." Ironwood 13 (1979): 38-9. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 10:06:26 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:06:26 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired notes anew Message-ID: Anny, I nominate this quote for your "Why Poetry Exists" site. Finnegan In a message dated 10/30/2006 9:55:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: "In my civilization it's customary to describe poetry as discarded, almost moribund, an all-too-exclusive art form, without power to break through. And the poets try to push themselves upon the world of the mass media, to get a few crumbs of attention. I think it is time to emphasize that poetry--in spite of all the bad poets and bad readers -- starts from an advantageous position. A piece of paper, some words: it's simple and practical. It gives independence. Poetry requires no heavy, vulnerable apparatus that has to be lugged around, it isn't dependent on temperamental performers, dictatorial directors, bright producers with irresistible ideas. No big money is at stake. A poem doesn't come in one copy that somebody buys and locks up in a storeroom waiting for its market value to go up; it can't be stolen from a museum or become currency in the buying and selling of narcotics, or get burned up by a vandal. When I started writing, at 16, I had a couple of like-minded school friends. Sometimes, when the lessons seemed more than usually trying, we would pass notes to each other between our desks--poems and aphorisms, which would come back with the more or less enthusiastic comments of the recipient. What an impression those scribblings would make! There is the fundamental situation of poetry. The lesson of official life goes rumbling on. We send inspired notes to one another." -- Tomas Transtr?mer. Translated by Judith Moffett. from "Answer to Uj Iras." Ironwood 13 (1979): 38-9. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c288 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 30 11:57:54 2006 From: c288 at hotmail.com (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:57:54 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Oct 30 12:12:56 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:12:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Inspired notes anew References: Message-ID: <005201c6fc46$a534d090$04df3652@ANNY> Thank you to James and David, here it is: http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 for those who do not know, I opened under _Poets_ on the Poets' Corner a page titled: New Poetry Mailing List: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=62 With three sub-pages: What is poetry? http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=287 Selections from... http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=841 and Why Poetry Exists http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289 Selections from... got lost somewhere, don't know why. Thank you for your contributions, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Inspired notes anew Anny, I nominate this quote for your "Why Poetry Exists" site. Finnegan In a message dated 10/30/2006 9:55:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: "In my civilization it's customary to describe poetry as discarded, almost moribund, an all-too-exclusive art form, without power to break through. And the poets try to push themselves upon the world of the mass media, to get a few crumbs of attention. I think it is time to emphasize that poetry--in spite of all the bad poets and bad readers -- starts from an advantageous position. A piece of paper, some words: it's simple and practical. It gives independence. Poetry requires no heavy, vulnerable apparatus that has to be lugged around, it isn't dependent on temperamental performers, dictatorial directors, bright producers with irresistible ideas. No big money is at stake. A poem doesn't come in one copy that somebody buys and locks up in a storeroom waiting for its market value to go up; it can't be stolen from a museum or become currency in the buying and selling of narcotics, or get burned up by a vandal. When I started writing, at 16, I had a couple of like-minded school friends. Sometimes, when the lessons seemed more than usually trying, we would pass notes to each other between our desks--poems and aphorisms, which would come back with the more or less enthusiastic comments of the recipient. What an impression those scribblings would make! There is the fundamental situation of poetry. The lesson of official life goes rumbling on. We send inspired notes to one another." -- Tomas Transtr?mer. Translated by Judith Moffett. from "Answer to Uj Iras." Ironwood 13 (1979): 38-9. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 12:22:58 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:22:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20061030172258.44634.qmail@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS The Electronic Literature Collection and the challenges of digital art The value of a pitching coach Property Line by Joseph Massey What Nikki Giovanni said Archive of the Now and the archival impulse in the age of digital reproduction Elizabeth Willis and Erasmus Darwin Meteoric Flowers AU70ST^RT A conference on digital writing Picking winners on Project Runway The Grand Piano An experiment in collective autobiography Found Objects The career of Louis Zukofsky the moment before he became widely famous The death of Gerry Studds and the use of new noun phrases A poets? Encyclopedia versus A Poets? Encyclopedia (d?j? vu all over again) U.K. syllables, American ears The Age of Huts (compleat) The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley now in two volumes A novel in the form of blurbs? Lunar Follies by Gilbert Sorrentino Style guides and long lines on the web http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 30 12:29:21 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:29:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Oxford English Dictionary On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charmaine Pettit wrote: > > May I ask what OED is? > > > > > > > > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Oct 30 12:39:56 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:39:56 -0000 Subject: OED -- Was: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: Message-ID: <018801c6fc4a$77a9bd30$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> May I ask what OED is? The Oxford English Dictionary When it was first published (in full in 1928 in, I think, 12 volumes -- it had been coming out in parts before then) by James Murray, it was called _A New English Dictionary [On Historical Principles]_. This is what is now known as the OED1. (It's sometimes, but very rarely now, referred to as the NED.) "OED" is usually taken to refer to whatever is the current one available. :-( More details here: http://dictionary.oed.com/ Other bits of Alphabet Soup: MED -- the Medieval English Dictionary, free online at Ann Arbour but with a password which changes once a month. Which is a right pain. DSL -- the Dictionary of the Scottish Language (a conflation of the earlier DOST and the SND !!!) -- free online. More specialist is the EMEDD -- the Early Modern English Dictionary Database -- which brings together all the dictionaries in English up to about 1650. Free, but you need to register, though only the first time you use it. Those would be the main ones -- dunno what the non-slang American equivalent would be -- Webster's isn't quite the same sort of animal. Sorry about the lack of URLs. Most of the above should be googleable, and all except the OED are (or were) free. If there's enough interest, or problems getting to them, someone say, and I'll try and put together a proper list with URLs. Slang is a different matter entirely, and I'm out of steam at the moment, so mibee Roger Day could pick up on that? Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Mon Oct 30 13:18:12 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:18:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <760DA633-B4F8-48B8-8E9B-1DA8F64D4027@earthlink.net> could it be Olde English Didacticism Odetta's Exorcised Demons Ovulating Equalitarian Democracy Open Ended Dementia Over Educated Dandelion Organic Energy Dildo Outliving Enemy Defensiveness One-way Enervating Diaspora or everybody's doctor-bill On Oct 30, 2006, at 8:57 AM, Charmaine Pettit wrote: > May I ask what OED is? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat at conncoll.edu Mon Oct 30 13:27:20 2006 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:27:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] OED In-Reply-To: <760DA633-B4F8-48B8-8E9B-1DA8F64D4027@earthlink.net> References: <760DA633-B4F8-48B8-8E9B-1DA8F64D4027@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9B4021C4-8346-467C-8EED-FE63A48C71D8@conncoll.edu> On Oct 30, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Open Ended Dementia Our last best hope. Wendy Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu http://www.upwardcat.com/home.html I own a cow in heaven, but I cannot drink her milk. Congolese From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 16:40:23 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:40:23 EST Subject: OED -- Was: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/30/2006 12:41:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes: The Oxford English Dictionary When it was first published (in full in 1928 in, I think, 12 volumes -- it had been coming out in parts before then) by James Murray Murray being the professor, in the book entitled _The Professor and the Madman_ by Simon Manchester, a popular book released a few years back. The madman was an American; but who would that surprise? Sometimes I feel like hiding out in a scriptorium. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 16:48:21 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:48:21 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Coming Up @ Poets House Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Poets House" Subject: Coming Up @ Poets House Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:42:33 +1100 Size: 21765 URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 16:55:56 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:55:56 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: IN SEARCH OF DUENDE by Federico Garcia Lorca (Norman Thomas Di Giovanni, and Christopher Maurer) Publisher: New Directions ISBN: 0811213765 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 16:57:42 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:57:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] OED Message-ID: In a message dated 10/30/2006 1:27:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, wjbat at conncoll.edu writes: > Open Ended Dementia Our last best hope. If the mid-term Elections go badly, it's not really open-ended... we'll just have to wait two more years to try to stop the madness. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From debra at debradicembre.com Mon Oct 30 17:35:41 2006 From: debra at debradicembre.com (Debra Dicembre) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:35:41 +1100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: <760DA633-B4F8-48B8-8E9B-1DA8F64D4027@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005601c6fc73$bfbbeac0$0301010a@galaxy> Yes, whenever I'm writing I make sure I have my 'organic energy dildo' nearby. I've found it works wonders in staving off 'open ended dementia'. thanks Chris DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Stroffolino To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 could it be Olde English Didacticism Odetta's Exorcised Demons Ovulating Equalitarian Democracy Open Ended Dementia Over Educated Dandelion Organic Energy Dildo Outliving Enemy Defensiveness One-way Enervating Diaspora or everybody's doctor-bill On Oct 30, 2006, at 8:57 AM, Charmaine Pettit wrote: May I ask what OED is? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Oct 30 17:55:51 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:55:51 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 Message-ID: In a message dated 10/30/2006 4:44:09 PM Central Standard Time, debra at debradicembre.com writes: > > > could it be > Olde English Didacticism Odetta's Exorcised Demons Ovulating Equalitarian > Democracy > Open Ended Dementia > Over Educated Dandelion > Organic Energy Dildo > Outliving Enemy Defensiveness > One-way Enervating Diaspora > or everybody's doctor-bill > > > Overly Elucidated Diction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 18:09:10 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:09:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Guerilla Poetics Project Message-ID: _http://www.guerillapoetics.org/whatisgpp/_ (http://www.guerillapoetics.org/whatisgpp/) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Oct 30 18:18:26 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:18:26 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Neighborhoods of Quietude Message-ID: Home of U of Buffalo comes in at #2 among Safest Cities...coincidence? My hometown came in # 371 (not so safe, how many degrees of motion has your neck got?)...but, heh, we won the Series -- _http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/list-of-cities-from-safest-to-most/n2 0061030131109990008_ (http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/list-of-cities-from-safest-to-most/n20061030131109990008) List of Cities, From Safest to Most Dangerous AP (Oct. 30) - A list of the safest and most dangerous cities overall, as compiled by Morgan Quitno Press, which bases the rankings on FBI figures. The list starts with the safest cities and ends with the most dangerous. Only cities that reported crime rates were included in the list. For example, New Orleans was not included this year because its police department did not report figures. 1. Brick, N.J. 2. Amherst, N.Y. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfq at myuw.net Mon Oct 30 18:34:18 2006 From: jfq at myuw.net (jfq at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 15:34:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Guerilla Poetics Project In-Reply-To: Message-ID: why would a poet want to pay 25 bucks to help promote somebody else's poetry? It's a good idea, and i'm going to steal it, but this seems like a cracked model to me. On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 JforJames at aol.com wrote: > _http://www.guerillapoetics.org/whatisgpp/_ > (http://www.guerillapoetics.org/whatisgpp/) > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Oct 30 20:55:55 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:55:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Entries at My Blog References: <760DA633-B4F8-48B8-8E9B-1DA8F64D4027@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <013f01c6fc8f$b4f29f00$99b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html The past two weeks or so I've been posting old haiku reviews of mine (few of them about alarmingly unconventional haiku). Yesterday, I started posting my reviews for American Book Review. Today's is about Robert Duncan. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c288 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 31 12:36:37 2006 From: c288 at hotmail.com (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:36:37 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <760DA633-B4F8-48B8-8E9B-1DA8F64D4027@earthlink.net> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 13:59:31 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:59:31 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <01cf01c6fad5$1ca018b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <01cf01c6fad5$1ca018b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: My background is in engineering, science and navigation. I am self-taught in poetry, poetics, and the all the rest of the stuff - indeed, the books I bought were self-designed to fill the gaps in my knowledge. Reccommendations here and there, an unsystematic view of What It Takes To Be A Poet. So, a right hodge-podge of stuff, none of it systematic. A deeper reading? Well I tried and probably missed by a good country-mile. A lot of the books I bought, I bought because I felt that I lacked something, that I was always missing something, that I felt that I could not construct sentences properly, my self-doubts about being a writer, about writing in general. My collection of books - and my forays into French and German - was designed to over-come these things, that I would become better by reading everything, by learning other languages. They're a list of aspirations, a bolster against self-doubt, a marker of self-doubt. What I really wanted - and what books couldn't give - was for someone to pat me on the head and say, there, you can write. But, at some stage I said, fuck that for a game of soldiers and started to sell the greater part of my books on Amazon[1]. The books I listed were the books that remain: they are the books that have been useful to me, books that I think might be useful to me in the future. So, the Princeton Poetics book has proven useful to me when I've discussed things in these forums. It was the first poetics book I owned, and it's still the main one I turn to. As to the Cassell book, I like Jonathon Green's writing. I own an old Partridge dictionary of slang: when I went to buy a new slang book, I was drawn to the Cassell rather than the Partridge. Who *knows* what mysterious forces draw one to a book; I have not regretted the decision though. I love some of the books that remain, and I'm finding it harder and harder to part with some of them, the sentimentality attached to them. I also picked up something I hadn't really counted on - a love of French and German. The mind-altering way another language has as it settles into your mind. That was certainly something I'd not counted on. When I looked at the background of the OED, it seemed to me to be some kind of Imperialist project. I wanted to say something about the parting of American English from English English. Chambers uses the term British English, but I don't find that useful either. But I ramble ... Yahoo Unserious [1] If anyone is interested, B/C me and I'll send you the full list, Cut some sort of deal, sans amazon. On 10/28/06, Robin Hamilton wrote: > From: David Baratier > > << > A number of amateurs are wishing recognition by mentioning singular books > rather than lay out some indication that they are serious readers but I have > thoroughly enjoyed it. > >> > > Um ... Another way of putting it would be that two different kinds of lists > are appearing, one with pertinent texts, and the other with > interesting-texts-on-my-shelves. (There might be a less kind way of > describing the latter which, while interesting, can degenerate into a "my > bookshelf is longer/more interesting/more esorteric than yours" game.) > > I concur over the dangers of simply naming a text without explanation or > qualification, but what worries me more is a sometimes dangerous lack of > specificity, which may simply reflect an assumption that "everyone knows" > what is being referred to. > > Thus (forgive me Roger ), both Roger Day and I listed the (N)PEPP, but > I'd want to say that it's fairly crucial to get the 1993 edition or later, > with the articles on metrics revised or added to by T.V.F.Brogan. I could > make the case as to why that book (the only one I mentioned, though I'd > agree with most of the rest of Roger's list) and why that edition, but ... > Roger? > > So far, I think the best suggestion by miles was Helen Ruggerie's, of a > blank book, closely followed by dave bircumshaw's, if he ever wrote it. I'd > chuck in here, partly because it's a book I've just just discovered, partly > because it has easily the best short article on Sapphics that I've ever > encountered [and the one caveat I had was that the article doesn't > distinguish between the two lines within Sapphics written in English, the > so-called English Sapphics, basically stemming from Isaac Watts' "Day of > Judgement", and those which turn back directly to Latin or Greek, usually > Horace]. Also at least one member of this list is represented there. And > there's the piece by Fred Nims on writing a poem entirely (although he uses > a different name, doesn't everyone? it's a code-word, as New Formalists have > one name for it, a classicist like Frederick Nims uses another, and I call > it the Lesser Ionic Ascending Foot) in X X / /. > Boy, that was a class act, was +An Exaltation of Forms+! > > I have it on order, mostly because I couldn't work out how to steal it from > the friend whose copy I was reading. Almost makes me want to try again with > Annie Finch's own book on metrics. Almost. > > Slang dictionaries. Again, I think Roger mentioned this, and specified > Jonathan Green's +Cassell Dictionary of Slang+. I'd agree, if you can have > only one dictionary of slang, but I'd be interested to know why Roger picked > that (as I would have done too) rather than the only other possible choice, > the Beale/Partridge +Dictionary of Slang+. > > Then there's the OED. (Hi, Bob!) "Which OED?" isn't as silly a question as > it sounds, since I've found apparently reputable personages use that set of > intitials to, as it turned out, jeezuz wept refer to the Concise Oxford > English Dictionary. Not that I'd ever think that was what Bob was doing, oh > no indeedy, no nay never not even on a month of Sundays. Hm ... ? > > But Roger suggested either the SOED (oh, well, no one's perfect) or the > microreduced one. There are two problems here, and one resolved > issue. The current microreduced OED does at least print OED2, and there's > a major change between OED1 and OED2, much larger than anything that happens > later. And of course then we get into the baroque Oxford system of > numbering the bloody things, crossed with some incompetent programming. > OED2 was followed by OED2(3) on CD [which is the one I use], which was > reissued as OED3 *after what is now OED4 started appearing. Except the CD > of OED3 has an interesting little habit of refusing to install on some > systems, and causing problems sometimes when it does, which can be ... > annoying. > > So I'd specifically recommend OED2(3) on CD, rather than either OED3 or the > microreduced edition, both of which are for almost all purposes identical > with it in content. Except that Roger, being younger than some of us, > doesn't feel on his pulse the way one's eyes degenerate with age, so that > even with a magnifying glass ... So my original microreduced OED now > resides, whether happily or not, with yet another member of this list. > > And there are, simply, things that you can find out using the [Advanced] > search faciltites of an electronic version of the OED which aren't possible > with a hard copy. As certain other members of this list who shall remain > nameless, contributing to a thread started by Mark Weiss on poetryetc > soliciting insight into the origins of "skinflint" will discover soon. Ha! > Enough to make you skin a fox, and I intend to take Great Delight in > [belatedly] demonstrating this. {Be afraid, Christopher, be very, very > afraid ... } > > Then there's the OED4, in one sense the latest in a line stretching back to > the original Oxford Dictionary of the English Language, or what is now known > as OED1, which doesn't exist as a single text -- d'oh! -- but as an ongoing > online project. But given Oxford's record on slang and contemporary usage, > both in the OED itself and the Oxford Dictionary of Slang, I wouldn't trust > that if *they paid *me to use it. (I bet they even manage to get it wrong > on gonzo journalism.) A four volume re-edition of Patridge is due out in > the next year or so, which ought to be a bit better, judging from past > history. > > Anyway, just a few random thoughts. > > Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ Suspicion breeds confidence From tad at opus40.org Tue Oct 31 15:21:25 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:21:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 References: <20061028035307.71362.qmail@web83104.mail.mud.yahoo.com><01cf01c6fad5$1ca018b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <003901c6fd2a$2409beb0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I think you're always going to feel that you lack something, and it's probably a good feeling, because we all lack something, and we're always trying to find ways to fill that void. A good book will have some small part of it that will fill some small gap...that's the best you can hope for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 28, Issue 25 > My background is in engineering, science and navigation. I am > self-taught in poetry, poetics, and the all the rest of the stuff - > indeed, the books I bought were self-designed to fill the gaps in my > knowledge. Reccommendations here and there, an unsystematic view of > What It Takes To Be A Poet. So, a right hodge-podge of stuff, none of > it systematic. A deeper reading? Well I tried and probably missed by a > good country-mile. A lot of the books I bought, I bought because I > felt that I lacked something, that I was always missing something, > that I felt that I could not construct sentences properly, my > self-doubts about being a writer, about writing in general. My > collection of books - and my forays into French and German - was > designed to over-come these things, that I would become better by > reading everything, by learning other languages. They're a list of > aspirations, a bolster against self-doubt, a marker of self-doubt. > What I really wanted - and what books couldn't give - was for someone > to pat me on the head and say, there, you can write. But, at some > stage I said, fuck that for a game of soldiers and started to sell the > greater part of my books on Amazon[1]. > > The books I listed were the books that remain: they are the books that > have been useful to me, books that I think might be useful to me in > the future. So, the Princeton Poetics book has proven useful to me > when I've discussed things in these forums. It was the first poetics > book I owned, and it's still the main one I turn to. As to the Cassell > book, I like Jonathon Green's writing. I own an old Partridge > dictionary of slang: when I went to buy a new slang book, I was drawn > to the Cassell rather than the Partridge. Who *knows* what mysterious > forces draw one to a book; I have not regretted the decision though. I > love some of the books that remain, and I'm finding it harder and > harder to part with some of them, the sentimentality attached to them. > > I also picked up something I hadn't really counted on - a love of > French and German. The mind-altering way another language has as it > settles into your mind. That was certainly something I'd not counted > on. > > When I looked at the background of the OED, it seemed to me to be some > kind of Imperialist project. I wanted to say something about the > parting of American English from English English. Chambers uses the > term British English, but I don't find that useful either. But I > ramble ... > > Yahoo Unserious > [1] If anyone is interested, B/C me and I'll send you the full list, > Cut some sort of deal, sans amazon. > > On 10/28/06, Robin Hamilton wrote: >> From: David Baratier >> >> << >> A number of amateurs are wishing recognition by mentioning singular >> books >> rather than lay out some indication that they are serious readers but I >> have >> thoroughly enjoyed it. >> >> >> >> Um ... Another way of putting it would be that two different kinds of >> lists >> are appearing, one with pertinent texts, and the other with >> interesting-texts-on-my-shelves. (There might be a less kind way of >> describing the latter which, while interesting, can degenerate into a "my >> bookshelf is longer/more interesting/more esorteric than yours" game.) >> >> I concur over the dangers of simply naming a text without explanation or >> qualification, but what worries me more is a sometimes dangerous lack of >> specificity, which may simply reflect an assumption that "everyone knows" >> what is being referred to. >> >> Thus (forgive me Roger ), both Roger Day and I listed the (N)PEPP, but >> I'd want to say that it's fairly crucial to get the 1993 edition or >> later, >> with the articles on metrics revised or added to by T.V.F.Brogan. I >> could >> make the case as to why that book (the only one I mentioned, though I'd >> agree with most of the rest of Roger's list) and why that edition, but >> ... >> Roger? >> >> So far, I think the best suggestion by miles was Helen Ruggerie's, of a >> blank book, closely followed by dave bircumshaw's, if he ever wrote it. >> I'd >> chuck in here, partly because it's a book I've just just discovered, >> partly >> because it has easily the best short article on Sapphics that I've ever >> encountered [and the one caveat I had was that the article doesn't >> distinguish between the two lines within Sapphics written in English, the >> so-called English Sapphics, basically stemming from Isaac Watts' "Day of >> Judgement", and those which turn back directly to Latin or Greek, usually >> Horace]. Also at least one member of this list is represented there. >> And >> there's the piece by Fred Nims on writing a poem entirely (although he >> uses >> a different name, doesn't everyone? it's a code-word, as New Formalists >> have >> one name for it, a classicist like Frederick Nims uses another, and I >> call >> it the Lesser Ionic Ascending Foot) in X X / >> /. >> Boy, that was a class act, was +An Exaltation of Forms+! >> >> I have it on order, mostly because I couldn't work out how to steal it >> from >> the friend whose copy I was reading. Almost makes me want to try again >> with >> Annie Finch's own book on metrics. Almost. >> >> Slang dictionaries. Again, I think Roger mentioned this, and specified >> Jonathan Green's +Cassell Dictionary of Slang+. I'd agree, if you can >> have >> only one dictionary of slang, but I'd be interested to know why Roger >> picked >> that (as I would have done too) rather than the only other possible >> choice, >> the Beale/Partridge +Dictionary of Slang+. >> >> Then there's the OED. (Hi, Bob!) "Which OED?" isn't as silly a question >> as >> it sounds, since I've found apparently reputable personages use that set >> of >> intitials to, as it turned out, jeezuz wept refer to the Concise Oxford >> English Dictionary. Not that I'd ever think that was what Bob was doing, >> oh >> no indeedy, no nay never not even on a month of Sundays. Hm ... ? >> >> But Roger suggested either the SOED (oh, well, no one's perfect) or the >> microreduced one. There are two problems here, and one resolved >> issue. The current microreduced OED does at least print OED2, and >> there's >> a major change between OED1 and OED2, much larger than anything that >> happens >> later. And of course then we get into the baroque Oxford system of >> numbering the bloody things, crossed with some incompetent programming. >> OED2 was followed by OED2(3) on CD [which is the one I use], which was >> reissued as OED3 *after what is now OED4 started appearing. Except the >> CD >> of OED3 has an interesting little habit of refusing to install on some >> systems, and causing problems sometimes when it does, which can be ... >> annoying. >> >> So I'd specifically recommend OED2(3) on CD, rather than either OED3 or >> the >> microreduced edition, both of which are for almost all purposes identical >> with it in content. Except that Roger, being younger than some of us, >> doesn't feel on his pulse the way one's eyes degenerate with age, so that >> even with a magnifying glass ... So my original microreduced OED now >> resides, whether happily or not, with yet another member of this list. >> >> And there are, simply, things that you can find out using the [Advanced] >> search faciltites of an electronic version of the OED which aren't >> possible >> with a hard copy. As certain other members of this list who shall remain >> nameless, contributing to a thread started by Mark Weiss on poetryetc >> soliciting insight into the origins of "skinflint" will discover soon. >> Ha! >> Enough to make you skin a fox, and I intend to take Great Delight in >> [belatedly] demonstrating this. {Be afraid, Christopher, be very, very >> afraid ... } >> >> Then there's the OED4, in one sense the latest in a line stretching back >> to >> the original Oxford Dictionary of the English Language, or what is now >> known >> as OED1, which doesn't exist as a single text -- d'oh! -- but as an >> ongoing >> online project. But given Oxford's record on slang and contemporary >> usage, >> both in the OED itself and the Oxford Dictionary of Slang, I wouldn't >> trust >> that if *they paid *me to use it. (I bet they even manage to get it >> wrong >> on gonzo journalism.) A four volume re-edition of Patridge is due out in >> the next year or so, which ought to be a bit better, judging from past >> history. >> >> Anyway, just a few random thoughts. >> >> Robin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > Suspicion breeds confidence > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From alexdickow9 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 16:21:07 2006 From: alexdickow9 at yahoo.com (Alexander Dickow) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:21:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] many new blog stuff Message-ID: <20061031212107.18912.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, Much new postlings since blog launch. Apparently this is an acceptable thing to do, so apparently I will. Please, help me come up with a title. All Yours, Alex Dickow Two tiny poems Call for Blog Title Suggestions: Appel aux lecteurs pour un titre du blog French Translation of Aaron Belz: Traduction Fran?aise d'Aaron Belz Jacques Roubaud, Poet-Translator: Jacques Roubaud, po?te traducteur A Thought on Official Language (3): Une pens?e sur la Langue Officielle (3) A Thought on Official Language (2): Une pens?e sur la Langue Officielle (2) David-Baptiste Chirot on Alexander Dickow: David-Baptiste Chirot ? propos d'Alexander Dickow A few poems: Quelques po?mes www.alexdickow.net/blog/ les mots! ah quel d?sert ? la fin merveilleux. -- Henri Droguet From JforJames at aol.com Tue Oct 31 17:29:36 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:29:36 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: <372.12907888.32792850@aol.com> Letters to a Young Poetby Rainer Maria Rilke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 17:58:43 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:58:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own In-Reply-To: <372.12907888.32792850@aol.com> References: <372.12907888.32792850@aol.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0610311458k425474bdi6c25af0f93b1e25@mail.gmail.com> Since you mention Rilke, Jim, I'm going to plug *Letters on Cezanne*, a wonderful little book that I first read a few months ago. I love the book, a meditation on art & creativity. I often find myself wishing that I could love poetry the way that Rilke loves Cezanne's work. The edition I have is by North Point Press (ISBN 086547639X). Best, Jeff Newberry On 10/31/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Letters to a Young Poet > by Rainer Maria Rilke > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Oct 31 19:53:23 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:53:23 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Books A Poet Should Own Message-ID: Has anyone said The Triggering Town by Richard Hugo? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope at icubed.com Tue Oct 31 22:14:02 2006 From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:14:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) In-Reply-To: <200610301700.k9UH05oQ024767@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200610301700.k9UH05oQ024767@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <62784.205.201.10.98.1162350842.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> I possess in my other library, The Fortress of Solitude, a first edition of Portia's apothegms translated by Merwin. On 15 November I intend to have Merwin autograph it. I have read this book 1000 times. Richard Dillon Message: 5 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:27:45 +0100 From: "Anny Ballardini" Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Yes, Porchia gets it right. That is why literary translations will never be successful with a software. How Romantic is Murray. ----- Original Message ----- From: TheOldMole To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:22 AM I like that one a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] O(wners) E(ventually) D(rown) What words say does not last. The words last. Because words are always the same and what they say is never the same. ???Antonio Porchia, from ???Voices,??? translated by W. S. Merwin