[New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure

[David Bircumshaw]

Now, now, Roger. Donne has not only just been dug out of the wood pile, as
you well know, for sure, in the Augustan period, with its one style
hegemony, he was seriously out of fashion, but that was an age that had
Dryden as its dubious literary god and forebear, not that the double-dealing
bays couldn't write, but ...

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Day" <rog3r.day at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure


> Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely
> minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile.
>
> You can take Shakespeare out behind the woodshed and shot him as well.
> Without that multi-million pound industry propping him up, he'd be
> considered shite.
>
> Roger
>
> On 8/28/06, David Bircumshaw <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Rob wrote:
> >
> > Thus (in my terms) Donne
> > > > is major, Wyatt minor.
> >
> > Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for
> > what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for
example,
> > Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a
major
> > poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone
asked
> > whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that
> > effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that
Shakespeare
> > or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young
> > culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan
> > Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster?
> > There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature
and
> > poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not
equal
> > a top-notch poet.
> > Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist.
> >
> > Blagued in the Bar
> >
> > D
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "steve moore" <fssam6 at uaf.edu>
> > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
> > <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:51 AM
> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure
> >
> >
> > > I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a
> > > matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that
> > > push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within
> > > current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The
> > > distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major
> > > poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better
> > > poet (I say with a certain smugness).
> > >
> > > > Re Berryman and Dream Songs:
> > > >
> > > >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them,
> > > >> it's, erm,
> > > >> obvious.
> > > >
> > > > dave --
> > > >
> > > > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit?
> > > >
> > > > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the
> > > > instance
> > > > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with.
> > > >
> > > > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of
> > > > [the] level
> > > > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the
> > > > moment.)
> > > >
> > > > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd
> > > > place Berryman as a minor poet.
> > > >
> > > > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction
> > > > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you
> > > > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were
> > > > worth reading.  With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of
> > > > sympathy with the writing to begin with.  Thus (in my terms) Donne
> > > > is major, Wyatt minor.
> > > >
> > > > R.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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