[New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure

[David Bircumshaw]

Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, it's, erm,
obvious.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Lawrence" <ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure


> I don't know how anyone can say Berryman had a flat ear, especially when
> considering the Dream Songs. Derivative? I think not.
>
>
> On 27/08/2006, at 10:32 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>
> > Dear me, this is getting to the verge of the nonsensical: I like
> > Berryman's
> > poems, BUT he had a flat ear, I believe that was due to deafness in
> > one
> > lughole, his writing was also derivative, certainly in the early
> > years, the
> > ghost of the still then living Auden leaned over his shoulder,
> > academic, his
> > writing is often as college style as Sylvia Plath's early work etc
> > etc.
> > A lovely presence in literary history, yes, but a great poet, no,
> > nor was
> > Richard Hugo, although he wrote some beauties too.
> >
> > Touchstone definitions of a great poet and a major poet: Dante was the
> > former, Calvalcanti the latter.
> >
> > Bored in the Bar
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anthony Lawrence" <ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com>
> > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
> > <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure
> >
> >
> >> Berryman is definitely there with the greats of American poet, from
> >> that time or any other.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 27/08/2006, at 6:45 AM, steve moore wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in
> >>> a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as
> >>> major.
> >>>
> >>> As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one
> >>> exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college
> >>> classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get
> >>>> praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake,
> >>>> whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose.
> >>>> Enjoyable to read.  Admirable as craftsmen in many way.
> >>>> Intelligent.  Etc.  But not what I'd call major.  Which makes me
> >>>> wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be
> >>>> considered a major poet?  James recently described Goldbarth as
> >>>> one, which floored me.  But why not, if Kooser and Collins and
> >>>> other poet laureates might be?
> >>>>
> >>>> The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets
> >>>> we're judging to judge properly.  So let me shift the problem: who
> >>>> of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975
> >>>> seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens?
> >>>>
> >>>> I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about
> >>>> major since Roethke.  Maybe Wilbur.  Maybe Frank O'Hara.  Not
> >>>> Ginsberg.  I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept
> >>>> him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I
> >>>> respect would rate him major.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, who would be on such a list?  (Note: I'm not trying to start a
> >>>> debate, just curious what names come up.  So I'll be an observer
> >>>> on this, not a commentator.)
> >>>>
> >>>> --Bob G.
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