From letitia.trent at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 08:03:10 2006 From: letitia.trent at gmail.com (L Trent) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:03:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Issue #1 of 21 Stars Review Message-ID: Issue #1 of 21 Stars Review is out today! http://sundress.net/21stars With contributions from Shane Allison, Aaron Anstett, Ismael Ricardo Archbold, Lindsay Bell, Curtis Bonney, Louis E. Bourgeois, Gilad Elbom, Josh Hanson, Kendra Paredes Hayden, Scott Keeney, Amanda Laughtland, Cat Rambo, Andrew Rihn, Mike Smith, and Laura Madeline Wiseman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 1 09:53:20 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:53:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies Message-ID: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY> > From: Tina.O'Toole [mailto:tina.otoole at ul.ie] > Sent: maandag 10 juli 2006 18:01 University of Limerick Human Resources wish to announce the following vacancy: The University of Limerick (UL) with over 11,000 students and 1,200 staff is a young, energetic and enterprising university with a proud record of innovation in education and excellence in research and scholarship. UL is situated on a superb riverside campus of over 300 acres with the River Shannon as a unifying focal point. Outstanding recreational, cultural and sporting facilities further enhance this exceptional learning and working environment. COLLEGE OF HUMANITIES Department of Languages and Cultural Studies Junior Lecturer in English Studies The English Section is part of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies within the College of Humanities in the University of Limerick. Faculty members teach BA courses in English to undergraduates on a number of degree programmes (including the BA in New Media and English, and the BA in English and History). They are also involved in the delivery of the MA in Comparative Literature and Cultural Studies, in Women's Studies and Utopian Studies, as well as supervising research students to Masters and PhD level. A , specialising in any historical period of American and/or British Literature and Culture, and in Literary and Cultural Theory. Research and/or teaching interests in one or more of the following areas will be an advantage: drama, popular literature, poetry or film. The successful candidate will have a doctorate in one of the required areas, will have publications commensurate with the level of the post and have experience in undergraduate teaching. Experience in postgraduate teaching, course development and teaching academic writing skills will also be an advantage. The appointee will be expected to participate fully in the development, administration and delivery of undergraduate and taught postgraduate programmes, and to make a substantial contribution to the research culture and research output of the Department and College. Salary Scale: ?38,938 - ?48,706 p.a. Apply for further information to: Martin Chappell, Head of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies. Email: martin.chappell at ul.ie Application material available from: Human Resources -- Email: hr at ul.ie -- Web: http://www.ul.ie/hrvacancies/ Please note your application must include: a.. A letter/email of introduction indicating how you meet the criteria outlined in the advertisement and/or information for applicants. b.. A complete University of Limerick Application Form. The closing date for receipt of applications is Tuesday, 12th September 2006. Applications must be submitted using the appropriate University application before 5pm on the closing date. Interviews will be held in October 2006. The position is tenable from January 2007. Applications are welcome from suitably qualified female and male candidates. The University is an equal opportunities employer and committed to selection on merit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Aug 2 04:50:51 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:50:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx References: <4763.71.240.120.66.1154373138.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Message-ID: <000701c6b610$c36a3f90$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Richard this is fascinating stuff, but, for a start: >Yeats was also a founder of the Order of The Golden Dawn< no he wasn't! He joined it when it was already up and going. Get back to you further. Take care Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:12 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- > Subject: Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 25, Issue 28 > From: elemenope at icubed.com > Date: Mon, July 31, 2006 3:10 pm > To: > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dave, > > Yeats was also a founder of the Order of The Golden Dawn, an esoteric > organization that intended to inject into the flow of intellectual culture > a renewal of occult philosophy and techne. Yeats was not only a very > competent horary and natal astrologer, he rose to a level of esoteric and > mundane capability equalled by very few in the field. The occult system > of transmigration and fate, human, personal and planetary history, isn't > found in quite the same way anywhere else. In contemporary astrology, the > names of Nicholas Campion, Bill Meridian, Alan Oken and Michael O'Reilly > sort of cover the same area, but all of them would agree that Yeats' > system stands alone. That it might very well be a transmission by Michael > Robartes from The Other Side, as Yeats asserted, should not be, I believe, > gainsaid. > > If it quacks like a duck, has the strange orange eyes of a duck, the > webbed feet of a duck, it's the bloody rough beast Sphinx, come roaring > monstrously to life, thundering like some 1965 Japanese Sci Fi monster > across the sandy wastes towards Bethelem at the very moment (2000 post > Christ) it's own prophecies, painted in its astrologically organized > chambers, announce. > > The interpentration of the gyres matches exactly the moment in mundane > planetary history we all have the pleasure of experiencing in the world > mind over death t.v. right NOW. > > If not now, when? > > Revelations, Nostradamus, Yeats. Mayan Calendar - - even Makmadinjihad's > quoted prophecy about their long awaited Ghoul-At-The-Bottom-Of-The-Well, > who will bring a deeply welcomed total chaos to humanitas that will demand > of all a total submission to Mecca round the clock on the Majic Carpet - - > all mark on the world calendar this moment as the start of the Final > Battle, which Yeats optimistically calls a birth throe. > > Ridiculous, unnecessary, plain stupid, well, that's the way it is at this > level of the Manifestation that Yeats astrology charts. A chart that > provides a way out, I would like to hope to think as I study it. > > Onward the days roll, > > Richard > > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:43:37 +0100 > > From: "David Bircumshaw" > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] (no subject) > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > > You have to be very careful witrh Yeats' great piece of windbag rhetoric, > > Richard, as well, I might add, with the theatrics of the Book of > > Revelations. Yeats' poem came to prominence through widespread > > misapphrension of what he was 'talking' about: 'the best lack all > > conviction/ while the worst are full of a passionate intensity' was widely > > seen as the Prophet Yeats predicting the rise of Nazism, as was that rough > > beast. He meant nothing of the sort, as the little cryptic note to the > > poem > > in his Collected implies. The best were his extremely dodgy fringe > > fascisti > > friends in the little green island, the worst were people who were in > > favour > > of council houses in England having baths because everyone knew that the > > working classes would use their baths to store coal in, I'm not of the > > camp > > who think Yeats was a full-blown facist, but he was friendly with the > > devil, > > and he was a pathetic fantasing arrogant snob, but a great poet, his > > first, > > and authorised, biography by the Nazi sympathiser Joseph Hone (pub. 1941, > > of > > all years) when the little green government was covertly sympathising with > > Hitler and the IRA were planting bombs in Coventry (of all places) weasly > > implies all. > > > > Mecury, that god of communication, was very definitely retrograde in the > > reception of Yeats's admitedly powerful rhetoric, as is that defunct by > > then > > already in the delirium of St Revelation John. > > > > All the Best > > > > Dave > > >>as is that defunct by then > >> already in the delirium of St Revelation John. > > > > 'god', in the lower-case, has been typographically omitted from my > > closing: > > should be: > > > > as is that defunct by then +god+ > >> already in the delirium of St Revelation John. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:34 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) > > > > > >> (Taken from correspondence outside this list, but the content is > >> immediatly apparent to interested parties. > >> > >> R.D.) > >> > >> > >> > >> And Mercury is retrograde until the 28th. Lots of Mercury retro > >> glitches > >> in my video work. > >> > >> I'm writing on Tuesday. I may be going up to Chatauqua, N.Y. on > >> Thursday. > >> > >> I've been busy evaluating the question: Is Terra undergoing WWW IV? > >> (USSR > >> vs. USA Cold War being WWW III.) If so, is this the Battle of > >> Armageddon > >> as predicted in "The Book of Revelations," or the prophecy W.B. Yeats > >> saw > >> in his poem, "The Second Coming." > >> > >> A "gyre" is a funnel shaped, spring-like pattern Yeats used to measure > >> the > >> ages of 2000 years that mark the Great Astrological Cycle of 24,000 > >> years. > >> The falcon and the Falconer point to the relationship of man's control > >> over the ferocity of animal will and mind; also, consider the fact that > >> the Arabs are associated with falconry. The term, "Spiritus Mundi," > >> means > >> the Collective Unconsciousness of Deepest Dream Archetypes, or the > >> Akashik > >> Records. I quote from memory: > >> > >> THE SECOND COMING > >> > >> Turning and turning in the ever widening gyre, > >> The falcon cannot hear the falconer, > >> Things fall apart, the center cannot hold > >> Mere anarchy is loosed upon the earth, > >> Everywhere the blood dimmed tide is loosed. > >> And the ceremony of innocence is drowned. > >> The best lack all conviction, > >> While the worst are filled with passionate intensity. > >> Surely some revelation is at hand. > >> Surely the Second Coming is at hand. > >> The Second Coming! No sooner are those words out, > >> When a vast image out of the Spiritus Mundi > >> Arises to trouble my sight. > >> Somewhere in sands of desert > >> A shape with body of lion and head of a man > >> Is moving its slow thighs > >> While all about it screech the indignant cries > >> Of desert birds. The darkness drops again. > >> But now I know that twenty centuries of stony sleep, > >> Where vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle. > >> And what rough beast? Its hour come round at last, > >> Slouches towards Bethelem to be born. > >> > >> (Circa 1921) > >> > >> > >> > >> > I'm going to call you. > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 1:30 PM > >> > Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: WE WILL NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN IN OUR LIFETIME > >> > > >> > > >> >> Remember the mechanically physical effects of Mercury Retrograde as > >> >> Mercury stopped stationary, retreated backwards, stopped, and then > >> went > >> >> back over the path it had just traced. Remember the analogy of a > >> boat > >> >> and > >> >> its wake. > >> >> > >> >> Now consider the current planetary crisis. What is Mars doing? And > >> >> what > >> >> is Mars in mythology? Mars (Roman), Ares (Greek), the GAWD OV WAR! > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> We will never see this again in our lifetime > >> >>> > >> >>> ...nor will the people of the next 50-to-1,000 Life > >> >>> Times! > >> >>> Mars > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! > >> >>> > >> >>> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in > > an > >> >>> encounter that > >> >>> will culminate in the closest approach between the > >> two > >> >>> planets in > >> >>> recorded history. The next time Mars may come this > > close > >> >>> is > >> >>> in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on > >> >>> Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be > >> >>> certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth > >> >>> in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as > >> >>> 60,000 years before it happens again. > >> >>> > >> >>> The encounter will culminate on August 27th when > >> >>> Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and > >> >>> will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in > >> >>> the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 > >> >>> and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest > >> >>> 75-power magnification... > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked > >> >>> eye. > >> >>> > >> >>> Mars will be easy to spot. At the > >> >>> beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. > >> >>> and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > >> >>> > >> >>> By the end of August when the two planets are > >> >>> closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its > >> >>> highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty > >> >>> convenient to see something that no human being has > >> >>> seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at > >> >>> the beginning of August to see Mars grow > >> >>> progressively brighter and brighter throughout the > >> >>> month. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Share this with your children and grandchildren. > >> >>> > >> >>> NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Aug 2 06:02:20 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:02:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY> Message-ID: <001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> y'know Anny, when I look at this, and see the salary scale and the job specs, I think 'this is obscene'. The bourgeoisiefication of poetry, to use an ugly term. I hasten to add I'm not attacking you for posting it - but when I think of people on five quid an hour if they're lucky, or poets who are creative and get next to nothing for their work, and see this, it makes me feel ill. The vampires rule these days. Care Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:53 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > From: Tina.O'Toole [mailto:tina.otoole at ul.ie] > Sent: maandag 10 juli 2006 18:01 University of Limerick Human Resources wish to announce the following vacancy: The University of Limerick (UL) with over 11,000 students and 1,200 staff is a young, energetic and enterprising university with a proud record of innovation in education and excellence in research and scholarship. UL is situated on a superb riverside campus of over 300 acres with the River Shannon as a unifying focal point. Outstanding recreational, cultural and sporting facilities further enhance this exceptional learning and working environment. COLLEGE OF HUMANITIES Department of Languages and Cultural Studies Junior Lecturer in English Studies The English Section is part of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies within the College of Humanities in the University of Limerick. Faculty members teach BA courses in English to undergraduates on a number of degree programmes (including the BA in New Media and English, and the BA in English and History). They are also involved in the delivery of the MA in Comparative Literature and Cultural Studies, in Women's Studies and Utopian Studies, as well as supervising research students to Masters and PhD level. A , specialising in any historical period of American and/or British Literature and Culture, and in Literary and Cultural Theory. Research and/or teaching interests in one or more of the following areas will be an advantage: drama, popular literature, poetry or film. The successful candidate will have a doctorate in one of the required areas, will have publications commensurate with the level of the post and have experience in undergraduate teaching. Experience in postgraduate teaching, course development and teaching academic writing skills will also be an advantage. The appointee will be expected to participate fully in the development, administration and delivery of undergraduate and taught postgraduate programmes, and to make a substantial contribution to the research culture and research output of the Department and College. Salary Scale: ?38,938 - ?48,706 p.a. Apply for further information to: Martin Chappell, Head of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies. Email: martin.chappell at ul.ie Application material available from: Human Resources -- Email: hr at ul.ie -- Web: http://www.ul.ie/hrvacancies/ Please note your application must include: a.. A letter/email of introduction indicating how you meet the criteria outlined in the advertisement and/or information for applicants. b.. A complete University of Limerick Application Form. The closing date for receipt of applications is Tuesday, 12th September 2006. Applications must be submitted using the appropriate University application before 5pm on the closing date. Interviews will be held in October 2006. The position is tenable from January 2007. Applications are welcome from suitably qualified female and male candidates. The University is an equal opportunities employer and committed to selection on merit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 09:27:12 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:27:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies In-Reply-To: <001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY> <001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: Maybe I am missing something here, but isn't this the going rate for someone who does this level of teaching/advising/etc.? It does seem "obscene" or vampiric to me. If anything I think that academics, who egenrally put in an inordinate amount of time in preparing for their careers, should make more. So what's the issue? Should we *not* hire people to teach literature at all because of all the poor struggling writers who are out there (and who have always been there since, let's face it, publishing is a very competitive field)? Also when have poets *ever* made more than a token amount of money for writing poetry? I think what should be noted here is that teh postion entails a rather significant teaching/advising load-- its not cash for writing poetry. I just can't think of any other field where anyone would find this objectionable. My thoughts. I speak of course as someone who works for a living and deals with the for profit world on a daily basis, in addition to writing poetry and creating art. I just can't find it in my heart to condemn anyone for finding work that they love and that will modestly sustain them. This sounds like a great job. Suzanne Burns On 8/2/06, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > y'know Anny, when I look at this, and see the salary scale and the job > specs, I think 'this is obscene'. The bourgeoisiefication of poetry, to use > an ugly term. I hasten to add I'm not attacking you for posting it - but > when I think of people on five quid an hour if they're lucky, or poets who > are creative and get next to nothing for their work, and see this, it makes > me feel ill. > > The vampires rule these days. > > Care > > Dave > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anny Ballardini > *To:* New Poetry > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:53 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > > > From: Tina.O'Toole [mailto:tina.otoole at ul.ie] > > Sent*:* maandag 10 juli 2006 18:01 > > > > > *University** of Limerick* > > > > Human Resources wish to announce the following vacancy: > > > > The University of Limerick (UL) with over 11,000 students and 1,200 staff > is a young, energetic and enterprising university with a proud record of > innovation in education and excellence in research and scholarship. UL is > situated on a superb riverside campus of over 300 acres with the River > Shannon as a unifying focal point. Outstanding recreational, cultural and > sporting facilities further enhance this exceptional learning and working > environment. > > > > *COLLEGE** OF HUMANITIES* > > ** > > *Department of Languages and Cultural Studies* > > *Junior Lecturer in English Studies* > > > > The English Section is part of the Department of Languages and Cultural > Studies within the College of Humanities in the University of Limerick. > Faculty members teach BA courses in English to undergraduates on a number of > degree programmes (including the BA in New Media and English, and the BA in > English and History). They are also involved in the delivery of the MA in > Comparative Literature and Cultural Studies, in Women's Studies and Utopian > Studies, as well as supervising research students to Masters and PhD level. > > > > A , specialising in any historical period of American and/or British > Literature and Culture, and in Literary and Cultural Theory. Research and/or > teaching interests in one or more of the following areas will be an > advantage: drama, popular literature, poetry or film. > > > > The successful candidate will have a doctorate in one of the required > areas, will have publications commensurate with the level of the post and > have experience in undergraduate teaching. Experience in postgraduate > teaching, course development and teaching academic writing skills will also > be an advantage. > > > > The appointee will be expected to participate fully in the development, > administration and delivery of undergraduate and taught postgraduate > programmes, and to make a substantial contribution to the research culture > and research output of the Department and College. > > > > Salary Scale: ?38,938 - ?48,706 p.a. > > > > Apply for further information to: > > Martin Chappell, Head of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies. > > > Email: martin.chappell at ul.ie > > Application material available from: > > Human Resources -- Email: hr at ul.ie -- Web: > http://www.ul.ie/hrvacancies/ > > > > Please note your application must include: > > - A letter/email of introduction indicating how you meet the > criteria outlined in the advertisement and/or information for applicants. > - A complete University of Limerick Application Form. > > > > > The closing date for receipt of applications is *Tuesday, 12th September > 2006.* > > Applications must be submitted using the appropriate University > application before *5pm* on the closing date. > > Interviews will be held in October 2006. The position is tenable from > January 2007. > > > > *Applications are welcome from suitably qualified female and male > candidates. The University is an equal opportunities employer and committed > to selection on merit.* > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." --Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millb at aol.com Wed Aug 2 09:40:05 2006 From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:40:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies In-Reply-To: References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY> <001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> This salary seems in line with the ranges that I have seen. Our neice just got hired for a junior tenure track position at Sarah Lawrence and her offer was $40,000. -----Original Message----- From: queenmouse at gmail.com Sent: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 6:27 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies Maybe I am missing something here, but isn't this the going rate for someone who does this level of teaching/advising/etc.? It does seem "obscene" or vampiric to me. If anything I think that academics, who egenrally put in an inordinate amount of time in preparing for their careers, should make more. So what's the issue? Should we *not* hire people to teach literature at all because of all the poor struggling writers who are out there (and who have always been there since, let's face it, publishing is a very competitive field)? Also when have poets *ever* made more than a token amount of money for writing poetry? I think what should be noted here is that teh postion entails a rather significant teaching/advising load-- its not cash for writing poetry. I just can't think of any other field where anyone would find this objectionable. My thoughts. I speak of course as someone who works for a living and deals with the for profit world on a daily basis, in addition to writing poetry and creating art. I just can't find it in my heart to condemn anyone for finding work that they love and that will modestly sustain them. This sounds like a great job. Suzanne Burns On 8/2/06, David Bircumshaw wrote: y'know Anny, when I look at this, and see the salary scale and the job specs, I think 'this is obscene'. The bourgeoisiefication of poetry, to use an ugly term. I hasten to add I'm not attacking you for posting it - but when I think of people on five quid an hour if they're lucky, or poets who are creative and get next to nothing for their work, and see this, it makes me feel ill. The vampires rule these days. Care Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:53 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > From: Tina.O'Toole [mailto:tina.otoole at ul.ie] > Sent: maandag 10 juli 2006 18:01 University of Limerick Human Resources wish to announce the following vacancy: The University of Limerick (UL) with over 11,000 students and 1,200 staff is a young, energetic and enterprising university with a proud record of innovation in education and excellence in research and scholarship. UL is situated on a superb riverside campus of over 300 acres with the River Shannon as a unifying focal point. Outstanding recreational, cultural and sporting facilities further enhance this exceptional learning and working environment. COLLEGE OF HUMANITIES Department of Languages and Cultural Studies Junior Lecturer in English Studies The English Section is part of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies within the College of Humanities in the University of Limerick. Faculty members teach BA courses in English to undergraduates on a number of degree programmes (including the BA in New Media and English, and the BA in English and History). They are also involved in the delivery of the MA in Comparative Literature and Cultural Studies, in Women's Studies and Utopian Studies, as well as supervising research students to Masters and PhD level. A , specialising in any historical period of American and/or British Literature and Culture, and in Literary and Cultural Theory. Research and/or teaching interests in one or more of the following areas will be an advantage: drama, popular literature, poetry or film. The successful candidate will have a doctorate in one of the required areas, will have publications commensurate with the level of the post and have experience in undergraduate teaching. Experience in postgraduate teaching, course development and teaching academic writing skills will also be an advantage. The appointee will be expected to participate fully in the development, administration and delivery of undergraduate and taught postgraduate programmes, and to make a substantial contribution to the research culture and research output of the Department and College. Salary Scale: ?38,938 - ?48,706 p.a. Apply for further information to: Martin Chappell, Head of the Department of Languages and Cultural Studies. Email: martin.chappell at ul.ie Application material available from: Human Resources -- Email: hr at ul.ie -- Web: http://www.ul.ie/hrvacancies/ Please note your application must include: A letter/email of introduction indicating how you meet the criteria outlined in the advertisement and/or information for applicants. A complete University of Limerick Application Form. The closing date for receipt of applications is Tuesday, 12th September 2006. Applications must be submitted using the appropriate University application before 5pm on the closing date. Interviews will be held in October 2006. The position is tenable from January 2007. Applications are welcome from suitably qualified female and male candidates. The University is an equal opportunities employer and committed to selection on merit. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." --Quentin Crisp _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 10:02:52 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:02:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies In-Reply-To: <8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY> <001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 8/2/06, millb at aol.com wrote: > > This salary seems in line with the ranges that I have seen. Our neice > just got hired for a junior tenure track position at Sarah Lawrence and her > offer was $40,000. > Which in this economy (and especially given where she will have to live) is a very, very modest salary. (Btw, Limerick is also now a fairly expensive place to live-- the days of living in Ireland on a shestring are past. At the risk of sounding like a bad, bad hippy, the Irish are generally happy with this development.) It takes a very long time to get a Ph.D, and those junior positions are hard work. Add in the pressures of achieving tenure (or figuring out what the hell you will do if you don't get tenure) and I would say any offer lower than this would be outrageous. I really would love to know where people got this idea that writers, scholars, poets, etc. somehow should be required to live outside of reality. It sort of goes with that idea that scholars have lots and lots of leisure time. Please. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Aug 2 10:58:31 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:58:31 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY><001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00f001c6b644$1ec95460$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> I think dave may have misread the salary (given in Euros) as Pounds Stirling. In that currency, the salary begins at about ?27,000, which is pretty much par for the course in the UK. However, the position might as well carry a flag saying, "Poets need not apply." First of all, it's a straight academic teaching post, not signaled as having a connection with creative writing in any way: The appointee will be "specialising in any historical period of American and/or British Literature and Culture, and in Literary and Cultural Theory. Research and/or teaching interests in one or more of the following areas will be an advantage: drama, popular literature, poetry or film." In this context, "poetry" means the history of poetry, not the practice of it, otherwise this would be indicated. Further, the position is so open-ended -- "any historical period of American and/or British Literature and Culture" -- that anyone could apply, and a large proportion of everyone without a tenured post will. Basically, it's russian roulette. However, someone whose PhD is in the history of the novel would be advised not to bother. What rules poets out is the lovely question that so often comes up at interviews for a post like this: "Do you find that writing poetry interferes [sic] with your teaching/research/administration/whatever?" Because: "The appointee will be expected to ... make a substantial contribution to the research culture and research output of the Department and College." That is, they will be expected not to waste their time publishing poetry but concentrate on producing academic articles in refereed journals -- or more probably, as things are now, in the production of a major book from a respectable, preferably university, press once every two years. Doesn't leave much space for writing, and in some ways actively conflicts with it (drawing on an overlap of the same resources of imagination and energy which go into the production of poetry). In the highly unlikely event of a poet being appointed, they can expect their writing -- poetry, not academic scholarship -- to be effectively held against them for the whole of their professional career. That's the way things are in the UK, and I presume Eire -- the MFA route for "professional advancement" for committed writers simply doesn't exist. (Yet. And I have to say that all in all, I'm pretty thankful.) Other than that, How did you enjoy the play, Mrs Lincoln? Robin Hamilton From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 2 13:44:21 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:44:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Beckett's UNPROTECTED TEXTS: SELECTED POEMS (1978~2006) Message-ID: <001a01c6b65b$49a299f0$a5c93a52@ANNY> UNPROTECTED TEXTS: SELECTED POEMS (1978~2006) Poems by Tom Beckett Release Date: Fall 2006 No. of Pages: 180 Price: $19.95 Distributor: Small Press Distribution (www.spdbooks.org), Amazon.com Contact: MeritagePress at aol.com Meritage Press is pleased to announce the release of Tom Beckett's long overdue and much anticipated first poetry book. Unprotected Texts encompasses work from nearly three decades. To celebrate this historic release, Meritage Press is pleased to offer a PRE-RELEASE SPECIAL. Through September 30, 2006, you can acquire this book direct from the publisher for $14.00, a 30% discount, as well as receive free shipping/handling for orders sent to U.S. addresses. Send check/money order made out to "Meritage Press" to Eileen Tabios Meritage Press 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Road St. Helena, CA 94574 BOOK DESCRIPTION: Zombies and Wittgenstein bracket a series of autonomous zones populated by the Book, Harry Partch, 100 Questions, shadows, holograms, the Subject, the author himself, and numerous pronouns. These Unprotected Texts flood the tones of speech wrenched from the bent notes of a life lived looking for a connection to "the conversation" which takes place among musics of meaning. Sex and text are synonymous here. "Is this speech balloon a rubber?" ADVANCE WORDS: There is a powerfully osmotic draw to this welcome volume of Selected Poems, spanning nearly thirty years of work and concluding with a stimulating interview of the author by Tom Fink and Crag Hill. That this book is overdue, results in a level of concentration that intensifies the experience of reading. The poetry itself, the intellect and personality that exude from it, reveal a mind and heart that bring to the fore the infinite variety of life in the late 20th and early 21st Centuries. References to composer and musical theorist Harry Partch seem apt, as Beckett's Unprotected Texts reveal intervals in sound, discovering heretofore undiscovered instruments. There is Beckett as designer who "underpaints." Beckett as builder: "Stanzas are rooms in Italian." Beckett as political and social observer: "Is the president a hologram?" "Do fingerprints have babies?" Beckett as aesthetic investigator: "At some point I turned out to be my method." "Closure affects circumference." Beckett as honest individual/ articulate creator: "It's a boy and it's a girl." "Often I am permitted to do absolutely nothing that I want to do." --Sheila E. Murphy For three decades now, Tom Beckett has been writing the most hard-headed, clear-eyed, unsentimental poetry in America. He has the rigor of a master & the mind of a first-rate detective. Long before the internet made it relatively easier for a poet to work from somewhere other than one of the two or three major literary centers, Beckett was writing poems from deep inside Ohio that ring as true -- and as clearly -- now as when they were first written. --Ron Silliman BIO: Well known for editing The Difficulties (1980-1990), a now legendary critical journal, Tom Beckett has long been associated with the Language Poets. His "The Picture Window" (included in this volume) was published in Ron Silliman's landmark anthology In the American Tree. More recently, he has become a popular figure in the world of blogs. Unprotected Texts is comprised of work taken in whole or part from broadsides, chapbooks, journals, online and other publications. It is his first, much anticipated, full-length book. He lives in Kent, Ohio. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 2 13:56:55 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:56:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY><001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006201c6b65d$0aff8710$a5c93a52@ANNY> This message was sent to me and I thought it would be of interest to someone on this list. The times are what they are Dave, and I do wish you will find a good job able to support you and to pay you back of all what you have done. Society as a whole is not just, within this unjustice I am happy when one of my cultural group finds a better position or better opportunities. I therefore agree with Suzanne's and Mill's comments. ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne Burns To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies On 8/2/06, millb at aol.com wrote: This salary seems in line with the ranges that I have seen. Our neice just got hired for a junior tenure track position at Sarah Lawrence and her offer was $40,000. Which in this economy (and especially given where she will have to live) is a very, very modest salary. (Btw, Limerick is also now a fairly expensive place to live-- the days of living in Ireland on a shestring are past. At the risk of sounding like a bad, bad hippy, the Irish are generally happy with this development.) It takes a very long time to get a Ph.D, and those junior positions are hard work. Add in the pressures of achieving tenure (or figuring out what the hell you will do if you don't get tenure) and I would say any offer lower than this would be outrageous. I really would love to know where people got this idea that writers, scholars, poets, etc. somehow should be required to live outside of reality. It sort of goes with that idea that scholars have lots and lots of leisure time. Please. Suzanne Burns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope at icubed.com Wed Aug 2 15:21:06 2006 From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] 1. Re: Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx (David Bircumshaw) In-Reply-To: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <21601.17.255.241.130.1154546466.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Dave, I was under the impression that he helped to found it in Ireland. No great matter. I must get the new collection of his papers that discuss his encounters with people like Madame Blavatsky. It is "fascinating" and it is also important to reunited poetry with the tools of occult prophecy rather than to continue relying on statistics and probabiity theory at the roots of poets mind directions. Richard > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:50:51 +0100 > From: "David Bircumshaw" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > > Richard > > this is fascinating stuff, but, for a start: > > >Yeats was also a founder of the Order of The Golden Dawn< > > no he wasn't! He joined it when it was already up and going. > > Get back to you further. > > Take care > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > > >> ---------------------------- Original Message >> ---------------------------- >> Subject: Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 25, Issue 28 >> From: elemenope at icubed.com >> Date: Mon, July 31, 2006 3:10 pm >> To: >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Dave, >> >> Yeats was also a founder of the Order of The Golden Dawn, an esoteric >> organization that intended to inject into the flow of intellectual >> culture >> a renewal of occult philosophy and techne. Yeats was not only a very >> competent horary and natal astrologer, he rose to a level of esoteric >> and >> mundane capability equalled by very few in the field. The occult system >> of transmigration and fate, human, personal and planetary history, isn't >> found in quite the same way anywhere else. In contemporary astrology, >> the >> names of Nicholas Campion, Bill Meridian, Alan Oken and Michael O'Reilly >> sort of cover the same area, but all of them would agree that Yeats' >> system stands alone. That it might very well be a transmission by >> Michael >> Robartes from The Other Side, as Yeats asserted, should not be, I >> believe, >> gainsaid. >> >> If it quacks like a duck, has the strange orange eyes of a duck, the >> webbed feet of a duck, it's the bloody rough beast Sphinx, come roaring >> monstrously to life, thundering like some 1965 Japanese Sci Fi monster >> across the sandy wastes towards Bethelem at the very moment (2000 post >> Christ) it's own prophecies, painted in its astrologically organized >> chambers, announce. >> >> The interpentration of the gyres matches exactly the moment in mundane >> planetary history we all have the pleasure of experiencing in the world >> mind over death t.v. right NOW. >> >> If not now, when? >> >> Revelations, Nostradamus, Yeats. Mayan Calendar - - even Makmadinjihad's >> quoted prophecy about their long awaited >> Ghoul-At-The-Bottom-Of-The-Well, >> who will bring a deeply welcomed total chaos to humanitas that will >> demand >> of all a total submission to Mecca round the clock on the Majic Carpet - >> - >> all mark on the world calendar this moment as the start of the Final >> Battle, which Yeats optimistically calls a birth throe. >> >> Ridiculous, unnecessary, plain stupid, well, that's the way it is at >> this >> level of the Manifestation that Yeats astrology charts. A chart that >> provides a way out, I would like to hope to think as I study it. >> >> Onward the days roll, >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:43:37 +0100 >> > From: "David Bircumshaw" >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] (no subject) >> > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> > You have to be very careful witrh Yeats' great piece of windbag > rhetoric, >> > Richard, as well, I might add, with the theatrics of the Book of >> > Revelations. Yeats' poem came to prominence through widespread >> > misapphrension of what he was 'talking' about: 'the best lack all >> > conviction/ while the worst are full of a passionate intensity' was > widely >> > seen as the Prophet Yeats predicting the rise of Nazism, as was that > rough >> > beast. He meant nothing of the sort, as the little cryptic note to the >> > poem >> > in his Collected implies. The best were his extremely dodgy fringe >> > fascisti >> > friends in the little green island, the worst were people who were in >> > favour >> > of council houses in England having baths because everyone knew that >> the >> > working classes would use their baths to store coal in, I'm not of the >> > camp >> > who think Yeats was a full-blown facist, but he was friendly with the >> > devil, >> > and he was a pathetic fantasing arrogant snob, but a great poet, his >> > first, >> > and authorised, biography by the Nazi sympathiser Joseph Hone (pub. > 1941, >> > of >> > all years) when the little green government was covertly sympathising > with >> > Hitler and the IRA were planting bombs in Coventry (of all places) > weasly >> > implies all. >> > >> > Mecury, that god of communication, was very definitely retrograde in >> the >> > reception of Yeats's admitedly powerful rhetoric, as is that defunct >> by >> > then >> > already in the delirium of St Revelation John. >> > >> > All the Best >> > >> > Dave >> >> >>as is that defunct by then >> >> already in the delirium of St Revelation John. >> > >> > 'god', in the lower-case, has been typographically omitted from my >> > closing: >> > should be: >> > >> > as is that defunct by then +god+ >> >> already in the delirium of St Revelation John. >> >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:34 AM >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) >> > >> > >> >> (Taken from correspondence outside this list, but the content is >> >> immediatly apparent to interested parties. >> >> >> >> R.D.) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And Mercury is retrograde until the 28th. Lots of Mercury retro >> >> glitches >> >> in my video work. >> >> >> >> I'm writing on Tuesday. I may be going up to Chatauqua, N.Y. on >> >> Thursday. >> >> >> >> I've been busy evaluating the question: Is Terra undergoing WWW IV? >> >> (USSR >> >> vs. USA Cold War being WWW III.) If so, is this the Battle of >> >> Armageddon >> >> as predicted in "The Book of Revelations," or the prophecy W.B. Yeats >> >> saw >> >> in his poem, "The Second Coming." >> >> >> >> A "gyre" is a funnel shaped, spring-like pattern Yeats used to >> measure >> >> the >> >> ages of 2000 years that mark the Great Astrological Cycle of 24,000 >> >> years. >> >> The falcon and the Falconer point to the relationship of man's > control >> >> over the ferocity of animal will and mind; also, consider the fact >> that >> >> the Arabs are associated with falconry. The term, "Spiritus Mundi," >> >> means >> >> the Collective Unconsciousness of Deepest Dream Archetypes, or the >> >> Akashik >> >> Records. I quote from memory: >> >> >> >> THE SECOND COMING >> >> >> >> Turning and turning in the ever widening gyre, >> >> The falcon cannot hear the falconer, >> >> Things fall apart, the center cannot hold >> >> Mere anarchy is loosed upon the earth, >> >> Everywhere the blood dimmed tide is loosed. >> >> And the ceremony of innocence is drowned. >> >> The best lack all conviction, >> >> While the worst are filled with passionate intensity. >> >> Surely some revelation is at hand. >> >> Surely the Second Coming is at hand. >> >> The Second Coming! No sooner are those words out, >> >> When a vast image out of the Spiritus Mundi >> >> Arises to trouble my sight. >> >> Somewhere in sands of desert >> >> A shape with body of lion and head of a man >> >> Is moving its slow thighs >> >> While all about it screech the indignant cries >> >> Of desert birds. The darkness drops again. >> >> But now I know that twenty centuries of stony sleep, >> >> Where vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle. >> >> And what rough beast? Its hour come round at last, >> >> Slouches towards Bethelem to be born. >> >> >> >> (Circa 1921) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I'm going to call you. >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 1:30 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: WE WILL NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN IN OUR LIFETIME >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Remember the mechanically physical effects of Mercury Retrograde >> as >> >> >> Mercury stopped stationary, retreated backwards, stopped, and then >> >> went >> >> >> back over the path it had just traced. Remember the analogy of a >> >> boat >> >> >> and >> >> >> its wake. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now consider the current planetary crisis. What is Mars doing? >> And >> >> >> what >> >> >> is Mars in mythology? Mars (Roman), Ares (Greek), the GAWD OV >> WAR! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We will never see this again in our lifetime >> >> >>> >> >> >>> ...nor will the people of the next 50-to-1,000 Life >> >> >>> Times! >> >> >>> Mars >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars > in >> > an >> >> >>> encounter that >> >> >>> will culminate in the closest approach between the >> >> two >> >> >>> planets in >> >> >>> recorded history. The next time Mars may come this >> > close >> >> >>> is >> >> >>> in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on >> >> >>> Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only >> be >> >> >>> certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth >> >> >>> in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as >> >> >>> 60,000 years before it happens again. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The encounter will culminate on August 27th when >> >> >>> Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and >> >> >>> will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in >> >> >>> the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 >> >> >>> and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest >> >> >>> 75-power magnification... >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Mars will look as large as the full moon to the >> naked >> >> >>> eye. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Mars will be easy to spot. At the >> >> >>> beginning of August it will rise in the east at > 10p.m. >> >> >>> and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> By the end of August when the two planets are >> >> >>> closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its >> >> >>> highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty >> >> >>> convenient to see something that no human being has >> >> >>> seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at >> >> >>> the beginning of August to see Mars grow >> >> >>> progressively brighter and brighter throughout the >> >> >>> month. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Share this with your children and grandchildren. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From elemenope at icubed.com Wed Aug 2 15:33:42 2006 From: elemenope at icubed.com (elemenope at icubed.com) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Dave, Yeats didn't found the Order in Ireland? Wasn't it his doing as part of his "secret" activities there? I'll have to read the new collected papers to get his dealing with Blatvatsky and Orage and Waite straight. I'm interested in probing the occult facts, not in engaging in pedantic sniping. So, it's not merely "fascinating" to me. It's important. So, if you can deliver updates on relevant views of "The Vision" that don't dismiss it out of hand because it is seen as gobbledegook or whatever, I'm all ears. I knmow you have access to this kind of information, but I don't know whether you take it seriously. I do, and I believe that poetry ought to. I'm tired of poets assuming that Probability Theory is the appropriate ground for their tests of reality. That was one of the issues that caused me to not identify, at bottom, with the Language Poets, for instance. Remember the heroism of Witte when he refused to work for Hitler. The great astrologers are animated by liberty. Yeats, as well, was not a fascist, he was an astrologer and occultist. Richard > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx (David Bircumshaw) > 2. Re: vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > (David Bircumshaw) > 3. Re: vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > (Suzanne Burns) > 4. Re: vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > (millb at aol.com) > 5. Re: vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies > (Suzanne Burns) > 6. Re: vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies (Robin) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:50:51 +0100 > From: "David Bircumshaw" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Message-ID: <000701c6b610$c36a3f90$e3c60556 at rayuv8pcloxi9v> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Richard > > this is fascinating stuff, but, for a start: > > >Yeats was also a founder of the Order of The Golden Dawn< > > no he wasn't! He joined it when it was already up and going. > > Get back to you further. > > Take care > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:12 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > > >> ---------------------------- Original Message >> ---------------------------- >> Subject: Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 25, Issue 28 >> From: elemenope at icubed.com >> Date: Mon, July 31, 2006 3:10 pm >> To: >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Dave, >> >> Yeats was also a founder of the Order of The Golden Dawn, an esoteric >> organization that intended to inject into the flow of intellectual >> culture >> a renewal of occult philosophy and techne. Yeats was not only a very >> competent horary and natal astrologer, he rose to a level of esoteric >> and >> mundane capability equalled by very few in the field. The occult system >> of transmigration and fate, human, personal and planetary history, isn't >> found in quite the same way anywhere else. In contemporary astrology, >> the >> names of Nicholas Campion, Bill Meridian, Alan Oken and Michael O'Reilly >> sort of cover the same area, but all of them would agree that Yeats' >> system stands alone. That it might very well be a transmission by >> Michael >> Robartes from The Other Side, as Yeats asserted, should not be, I >> believe, >> gainsaid. >> >> If it quacks like a duck, has the strange orange eyes of a duck, the >> webbed feet of a duck, it's the bloody rough beast Sphinx, come roaring >> monstrously to life, thundering like some 1965 Japanese Sci Fi monster >> across the sandy wastes towards Bethelem at the very moment (2000 post >> Christ) it's own prophecies, painted in its astrologically organized >> chambers, announce. >> >> The interpentration of the gyres matches exactly the moment in mundane >> planetary history we all have the pleasure of experiencing in the world >> mind over death t.v. right NOW. >> >> If not now, when? >> >> Revelations, Nostradamus, Yeats. Mayan Calendar - - even Makmadinjihad's >> quoted prophecy about their long awaited >> Ghoul-At-The-Bottom-Of-The-Well, >> who will bring a deeply welcomed total chaos to humanitas that will >> demand >> of all a total submission to Mecca round the clock on the Majic Carpet - >> - >> all mark on the world calendar this moment as the start of the Final >> Battle, which Yeats optimistically calls a birth throe. >> >> Ridiculous, unnecessary, plain stupid, well, that's the way it is at >> this >> level of the Manifestation that Yeats astrology charts. A chart that >> provides a way out, I would like to hope to think as I study it. >> >> Onward the days roll, >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:43:37 +0100 >> > From: "David Bircumshaw" >> > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] (no subject) >> > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> > You have to be very careful witrh Yeats' great piece of windbag > rhetoric, >> > Richard, as well, I might add, with the theatrics of the Book of >> > Revelations. Yeats' poem came to prominence through widespread >> > misapphrension of what he was 'talking' about: 'the best lack all >> > conviction/ while the worst are full of a passionate intensity' was > widely >> > seen as the Prophet Yeats predicting the rise of Nazism, as was that > rough >> > beast. He meant nothing of the sort, as the little cryptic note to the >> > poem >> > in his Collected implies. The best were his extremely dodgy fringe >> > fascisti >> > friends in the little green island, the worst were people who were in >> > favour >> > of council houses in England having baths because everyone knew that >> the >> > working classes would use their baths to store coal in, I'm not of the >> > camp >> > who think Yeats was a full-blown facist, but he was friendly with the >> > devil, >> > and he was a pathetic fantasing arrogant snob, but a great poet, his >> > first, >> > and authorised, biography by the Nazi sympathiser Joseph Hone (pub. > 1941, >> > of >> > all years) when the little green government was covertly sympathising > with >> > Hitler and the IRA were planting bombs in Coventry (of all places) > weasly >> > implies all. >> > >> > Mecury, that god of communication, was very definitely retrograde in >> the >> > reception of Yeats's admitedly powerful rhetoric, as is that defunct >> by >> > then >> > already in the delirium of St Revelation John. >> > >> > All the Best >> > >> > Dave >> >> >>as is that defunct by then >> >> already in the delirium of St Revelation John. >> > >> > 'god', in the lower-case, has been typographically omitted from my >> > closing: >> > should be: >> > >> > as is that defunct by then +god+ >> >> already in the delirium of St Revelation John. >> >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:34 AM >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) >> > >> > >> >> (Taken from correspondence outside this list, but the content is >> >> immediatly apparent to interested parties. >> >> >> >> R.D.) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And Mercury is retrograde until the 28th. Lots of Mercury retro >> >> glitches >> >> in my video work. >> >> >> >> I'm writing on Tuesday. I may be going up to Chatauqua, N.Y. on >> >> Thursday. >> >> >> >> I've been busy evaluating the question: Is Terra undergoing WWW IV? >> >> (USSR >> >> vs. USA Cold War being WWW III.) If so, is this the Battle of >> >> Armageddon >> >> as predicted in "The Book of Revelations," or the prophecy W.B. Yeats >> >> saw >> >> in his poem, "The Second Coming." >> >> >> >> A "gyre" is a funnel shaped, spring-like pattern Yeats used to >> measure >> >> the >> >> ages of 2000 years that mark the Great Astrological Cycle of 24,000 >> >> years. >> >> The falcon and the Falconer point to the relationship of man's > control >> >> over the ferocity of animal will and mind; also, consider the fact >> that >> >> the Arabs are associated with falconry. The term, "Spiritus Mundi," >> >> means >> >> the Collective Unconsciousness of Deepest Dream Archetypes, or the >> >> Akashik >> >> Records. I quote from memory: >> >> >> >> THE SECOND COMING >> >> >> >> Turning and turning in the ever widening gyre, >> >> The falcon cannot hear the falconer, >> >> Things fall apart, the center cannot hold >> >> Mere anarchy is loosed upon the earth, >> >> Everywhere the blood dimmed tide is loosed. >> >> And the ceremony of innocence is drowned. >> >> The best lack all conviction, >> >> While the worst are filled with passionate intensity. >> >> Surely some revelation is at hand. >> >> Surely the Second Coming is at hand. >> >> The Second Coming! No sooner are those words out, >> >> When a vast image out of the Spiritus Mundi >> >> Arises to trouble my sight. >> >> Somewhere in sands of desert >> >> A shape with body of lion and head of a man >> >> Is moving its slow thighs >> >> While all about it screech the indignant cries >> >> Of desert birds. The darkness drops again. >> >> But now I know that twenty centuries of stony sleep, >> >> Where vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle. >> >> And what rough beast? Its hour come round at last, >> >> Slouches towards Bethelem to be born. >> >> >> >> (Circa 1921) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I'm going to call you. >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 1:30 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: WE WILL NEVER SEE THIS AGAIN IN OUR LIFETIME >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Remember the mechanically physical effects of Mercury Retrograde >> as >> >> >> Mercury stopped stationary, retreated backwards, stopped, and then >> >> went >> >> >> back over the path it had just traced. Remember the analogy of a >> >> boat >> >> >> and >> >> >> its wake. >> >> >> >> >> >> Now consider the current planetary crisis. What is Mars doing? >> And >> >> >> what >> >> >> is Mars in mythology? Mars (Roman), Ares (Greek), the GAWD OV >> WAR! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> We will never see this again in our lifetime >> >> >>> >> >> >>> ...nor will the people of the next 50-to-1,000 Life >> >> >>> Times! >> >> >>> Mars >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars > in >> > an >> >> >>> encounter that >> >> >>> will culminate in the closest approach between the >> >> two >> >> >>> planets in >> >> >>> recorded history. The next time Mars may come this >> > close >> >> >>> is >> >> >>> in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on >> >> >>> Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only >> be >> >> >>> certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth >> >> >>> in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as >> >> >>> 60,000 years before it happens again. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The encounter will culminate on August 27th when >> >> >>> Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and >> >> >>> will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in >> >> >>> the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 >> >> >>> and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest >> >> >>> 75-power magnification... >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Mars will look as large as the full moon to the >> naked >> >> >>> eye. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Mars will be easy to spot. At the >> >> >>> beginning of August it will rise in the east at > 10p.m. >> >> >>> and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> By the end of August when the two planets are >> >> >>> closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its >> >> >>> highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty >> >> >>> convenient to see something that no human being has >> >> >>> seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at >> >> >>> the beginning of August to see Mars grow >> >> >>> progressively brighter and brighter throughout the >> >> >>> month. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Share this with your children and grandchildren. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN >> From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Aug 2 19:36:48 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 00:36:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY><001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> <006201c6b65d$0aff8710$a5c93a52@ANNY> Message-ID: <003801c6b68c$87401b80$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Hi Anny, Suzanne etc reality check, I subsist on just over 300 pounds a month, often , if it wasn't for my friends, I would go without food, I haven't got any argument with you Anny, you're a good poet and do great work to support other poets, ok?, but the cultural situation we live in is a nightmare, and I don't believe in accepting it. this morning I had to see my little vicky trembling with fear because of this exploitative tosser - that is never going to happen again - her whole body was shaking from top to toe. Pace my dear Rob, I didn't misread the amount, was delighted tonight to meet my Russian mate Eugene's wife Olga, he's been working as a researcher at De Montfort Uni for the last 5 years but is only now he could afford to bring her over Ramble, ramble Care Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies This message was sent to me and I thought it would be of interest to someone on this list. The times are what they are Dave, and I do wish you will find a good job able to support you and to pay you back of all what you have done. Society as a whole is not just, within this unjustice I am happy when one of my cultural group finds a better position or better opportunities. I therefore agree with Suzanne's and Mill's comments. ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne Burns To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies On 8/2/06, millb at aol.com wrote: This salary seems in line with the ranges that I have seen. Our neice just got hired for a junior tenure track position at Sarah Lawrence and her offer was $40,000. Which in this economy (and especially given where she will have to live) is a very, very modest salary. (Btw, Limerick is also now a fairly expensive place to live-- the days of living in Ireland on a shestring are past. At the risk of sounding like a bad, bad hippy, the Irish are generally happy with this development.) It takes a very long time to get a Ph.D, and those junior positions are hard work. Add in the pressures of achieving tenure (or figuring out what the hell you will do if you don't get tenure) and I would say any offer lower than this would be outrageous. I really would love to know where people got this idea that writers, scholars, poets, etc. somehow should be required to live outside of reality. It sort of goes with that idea that scholars have lots and lots of leisure time. Please. Suzanne Burns ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 09:17:50 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:17:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English Studies In-Reply-To: <003801c6b68c$87401b80$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <005401c6b571$db16e340$aeaf3852@ANNY><001401c6b61a$c5115450$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><8C884504C411BB3-790-AA00@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> <006201c6b65d$0aff8710$a5c93a52@ANNY> <003801c6b68c$87401b80$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <503E9113-1725-4D27-A3C4-30188C53AD53@earthlink.net> Vagrancy for Junior Lecturers in English Studies Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 2, 2006, at 6:36 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Hi Anny, Suzanne etc > > reality check, I subsist on just over 300 pounds a month, often , > if it wasn't for my friends, I would go without food, I haven't got > any argument with you Anny, you're a good poet and do great work to > support other poets, ok?, but the cultural situation we live in is > a nightmare, and I don't believe in accepting it. > this morning I had to see my little vicky trembling with fear > because of this exploitative tosser - that is never going to happen > again - her whole body was shaking from top to toe. Pace my dear > Rob, I didn't misread the amount, was delighted tonight to meet my > Russian mate Eugene's wife Olga, he's been working as a researcher > at De Montfort Uni for the last 5 years but is only now he could > afford to bring her over > > Ramble, ramble > > Care > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English > Studies > > This message was sent to me and I thought it would be of interest > to someone on this list. The times are what they are Dave, and I do > wish you will find a good job able to support you and to pay you > back of all what you have done. Society as a whole is not just, > within this unjustice I am happy when one of my cultural group > finds a better position or better opportunities. I therefore agree > with Suzanne's and Mill's comments. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Suzanne Burns > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] vacancy for a Junior Lecturer in English > Studies > > > > On 8/2/06, millb at aol.com wrote: > This salary seems in line with the ranges that I have seen. Our > neice just got hired for a junior tenure track position at Sarah > Lawrence and her offer was $40,000. > > > Which in this economy (and especially given where she will have to > live) is a very, very modest salary. (Btw, Limerick is also now a > fairly expensive place to live-- the days of living in Ireland on a > shestring are past. At the risk of sounding like a bad, bad hippy, > the Irish are generally happy with this development.) > > It takes a very long time to get a Ph.D, and those junior positions > are hard work. Add in the pressures of achieving tenure (or > figuring out what the hell you will do if you don't get tenure) and > I would say any offer lower than this would be outrageous. > > I really would love to know where people got this idea that > writers, scholars, poets, etc. somehow should be required to live > outside of reality. It sort of goes with that idea that scholars > have lots and lots of leisure time. Please. > > Suzanne Burns > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Aug 3 11:49:52 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] More Heat, Please? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060803154952.63058.qmail@web81102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As if no electricity during 112 degree weather (on the East Coast, at least) wasn't enough, MiPOesias is flaming the fire with some sizzling new stellar work ~~ Check it, please -----> http://www.mipoesias.com ~ Peter Jay Shippy, Lucille Gang Shulklapper, Jill Alexander Essbaum, Anne Boyer, Anny Ballardini, Christopher Salerno, Noah Eli Gordon, John Sakkis, and Meghan Punschke ~ Peter Jay Shippy's books are Thieves' Latin (University of Iowa Press) and Alphaville (BlazeVOX Books). New poems can be found in The American Poetry Review, Cue, FIELD, and Jacket, among others. He teaches at Emerson College. More poems can be found at: www.peterjayshippy.com Lucille is a workshop leader for the Florida Center for the Book, an affiliate of the Library of Congress. Her poetry and fiction appear in journals and anthologies, including: The MonaPoetica anthology, Slant, Gulfstream, Poetic Voices without Borders, and Still Going Strong. She's the author of two chapbooks of poems: What You Cannot Have, The Substance of Sunlight, and a mini-chapbook:Godd, It's Not Hollywood. Recent awards include third prize for a poem, awarded by Common Ground Review, first prize for a prose poem, awarded by the Nat'l League of Pen Women: Nob Hill Branch, and honorable mention for a short story awarded by the R. Rofihy Trophy. Jill Alexander Essbaum is the author of the 1999 Bakeless Prize winner in poetry, Heaven, and the 2005 collection of sonnets, Oh Forbidden. She has published in journals both religious and secular, both domestic and foreign, both well-known and rabidly obscure including The Christian Century, No Tell Motel, 32 Poems, Rhino, Image, and Poetry. In 2003, she was awarded an NEA literature grant for which she is still insanely grateful. She has particular affection for the sonnets of Edna St. Vincent Millay, the poems of Simon Armitage, the mystical theology of Simone Weil, the music of Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, and the office politics of Wernam-Hogg. Occasionally, she plays with her food. Anne Boyer was born in Topeka, Kansas, in 1973. She is the author of Anne Boyer's Good Apocalypse (Effing Press, 2006) and The Romance of Happy Workers (forthcoming, Coffee House). Recent work can also be found at or forthcoming in The Poker, La Petite Zine, Jacket, Coconut, and other journals. She lives in Central Iowa with her daughter, Hazel, and teaches creative writing at Drake University. Anny Ballardini lives and teaches in Bolzano, Italy. She is the curator/editor of the Poets' Corner on the Fieralingue site. Among her many translations from and into English and Italian, several are the poems by Authors featured on the Poets' Corner, as the long poem In RI by Henry Gould, Smokestacks Allegro by R. Cominolli, and The Renaissance of the Self by Arturo Onofri. Her blog can be found under Narcissus Works. Christopher Salerno's Whirligig was shortlisted for the Walt Whitman Award and was just published by Spuyten Duyvil Publishing House (NY). Other poems can be found in Verse, The Colorado Review, Jubilat, Jacket, The Tiny, The New Hampshire Review, Agni online, Carolina Quarterly, Barrow Street, Free Verse, Electronic Poetry Review, Lit, River City, Forklift Ohio, Tar River Poetry, Spinning Jenny, GoodFoot , and in the anthology, The Bedside Guide To No Tell Motel. He teaches Composition, Poetry Writing and American Lit at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, NC. Noah Eli Gordon will have two books appear in 2007: Novel Pictorial Noise (selected by John Ashbery for the 2006 National Poetry Series) and A Fiddle Pulled From the Throat of a Sparrow (New Issues). He is the author of The Frequencies (Tougher Disguises, 2003), The Area of Sound Called the Subtone, (Ahsahta Press, 2004), and chapbooks from Duration Press, Margin to Margin, Anchorite Press, and Anon Books. Ugly Duckling Presse recently published That We Come To A Consensus, a chapbook written in collaboration with Sara Veglahn. His reviews have appeared in dozens of journals, including Boston Review, The Poker, 26, Jacket, and The St. Marks Poetry Project Newsletter . He writes a new chapbook review column for Rain Taxi and teaches creative writing at the University of Colorado at Denver. Visit blog. John Sakkis' poetry, interviews and reviews have appeared or are forthcoming in New American Writing, Aufgabe, Mirage #4/ Period(ical), Dusie, The Poker, Hot Whiskey, commonweal, Shampoo, Bombay Gin, Shuffleboil, and Kulture Vulture among others. Translations of Greek poet Demosthenes Agrafiotis have appeared/ forthcoming in Fascicle, and Small Town. In the Summer 2005 Silas Press (Athens) published his translation of Siarita Kouka's long poem Benthos. A discussion with Benjamin Hollander was recently published in Hollander's book Vigilance (Beyond Baroque Books). A short play, Game 6, was directed by Kevin Killian and performed at the 2005 San Francisco Poet's Theater Jamboree. He edits the monthly BOTH BOTH series. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com http://www.mipoesias.com Cheers! Amy King, Managing Editor Didi Menendez, Publisher/Producer http://www.mipoesias.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 3 18:51:31 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 18:51:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Patricia Goedicke wrote of love, illness Message-ID: <597.2476c89.3203d7f3@aol.com> _http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/nation/15184056.htm?source=rss& channel=twincities_nation_ (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/nation/15184056.htm?source=rss&channel=twincities_nation) Posted on Thu, Aug. 03, 2006email thisprint this Poet Patricia Goedicke wrote of love, illness >From news services Patricia Goedicke, a poet who wrote in bold, precise terms about romantic love as well as the stresses that illness and the specter of death impose on a marriage, has died. She was 75. Goedicke died July 14 of pneumonia, a complication of cancer, at St. Patrick Hospital and Health Sciences Center in Missoula, Mont., according to Connie Poten, a friend. Goedicke taught poetry at the University of Montana in Missoula for 25 years and was remembered as a beloved faculty member. She continued to teach a poetry workshop after she retired. "Patricia wrote about traditional subjects ? emotion, sexuality, illness, death ? in ways that showed her strong feelings about all of life," said Casey Charles, chairman of the school's English department. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 18:57:07 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 17:57:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Patricia Goedicke wrote of love, illness In-Reply-To: <597.2476c89.3203d7f3@aol.com> References: <597.2476c89.3203d7f3@aol.com> Message-ID: <182BADC4-DDFA-4457-AEEB-C39EA5377A8F@earthlink.net> If memory serves, she also taught and/or ran a writing program here in San Miguel de Allende. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 3, 2006, at 5:51 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/nation/15184056.htm? > source=rss&channel=twincities_nation > > Posted on Thu, Aug. 03, 2006email thisprint this > Poet Patricia Goedicke wrote of love, illness > From news services > > Patricia Goedicke, a poet who wrote in bold, precise terms about > romantic love as well as the stresses that illness and the specter > of death impose on a marriage, has died. She was 75. > > Goedicke died July 14 of pneumonia, a complication of cancer, at > St. Patrick Hospital and Health Sciences Center in Missoula, Mont., > according to Connie Poten, a friend. > > Goedicke taught poetry at the University of Montana in Missoula for > 25 years and was remembered as a beloved faculty member. She > continued to teach a poetry workshop after she retired. > > "Patricia wrote about traditional subjects ? emotion, sexuality, > illness, death ? in ways that showed her strong feelings about all > of life," said Casey Charles, chairman of the school's English > department. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 3 19:30:52 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 19:30:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Penn Library Message-ID: <000801c6b754$dc949a20$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I went to look for a photo of Patricia Goedicke, and was directed to, among other places,the University of Pennsylvania/APR archive of photos of poets, only to discover that it is gone, defunct, no longer maintained. This was a wonderful resource. What happened to it? Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 4 17:32:54 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:32:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Cherubim" Message-ID: <64725586-6C87-4B01-9C5C-5FC790209973@earthlink.net> Cherubim ramble out of that blue-green Bolivian sky digital pulses, neural synapses black woody cherry (are you a gambler, fella?) for yellow or green nymphs concubinage with meals-- manzanos y pl?tanos arroz con pollo neutral ground for both--black, yellow, and especially red, your team-teaching at the tomb of the unknown gambler, abuse in general, neutral federalists contrition, cool cowards all. seizing the neutral topic with great relief, sat together over apple pie and black coffee, figurines with sexual connotations, words that come dashing over the river on packets of data, situation neither formal nor informal, neither cyan, magenta, nor black. one transparently unsuccessful statesman confesses that pessimism was not a neutral observer of history swatches of yellow, ambiguous smiles, secretly pleased with themselves. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Aug 5 03:43:16 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 09:43:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a Pantoum by D. Justice Message-ID: <008901c6b862$d08d6130$3fa83452@ANNY> from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/books/features/19980920.htm Pantoum of the Great Depression Our lives avoided tragedy Simply by going on and on, Without end and with little apparent meaning. Oh, there were storms and small catastrophes. Simply by going on and on We managed. No need for the heroic. Oh, there were storms and small catastrophes. I don't remember all the particulars. We managed. No need for the heroic. There were the usual celebrations, the usual sorrows. I don't remember all the particulars. Across the fence, the neighbors were our chorus. There were the usual celebrations, the usual sorrows Thank god no one said anything in verse. The neighbors were our only chorus, And if we suffered we kept quiet about it. At no time did anyone say anything in verse. It was the ordinary pities and fears consumed us, And if we suffered we kept quiet about it. No audience would ever know our story. It was the ordinary pities and fears consumed us. We gathered on porches; the moon rose; we were poor. What audience would ever know our story? Beyond our windows shone the actual world. We gathered on porches; the moon rose; we were poor. And time went by, drawn by slow horses. Somewhere beyond our windows shone the world. The Great Depression had entered our souls like fog. And time went by, drawn by slow horses. We did not ourselves know what the end was. The Great Depression had entered our souls like fog. We had our flaws, perhaps a few private virtues. But we did not ourselves know what the end was. People like us simply go on. We have our flaws, perhaps a few private virtues, But it is by blind chance only that we escape tragedy. And there is no plot in that; it is devoid of poetry. Donald Justice (Reprinted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf Inc.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 11:07:23 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 08:07:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Quarter-inch Grapes: A Lie in Progress" Message-ID: <648208b60608050807q23a42658je15050c1b38dd19a@mail.gmail.com> "Eight thousand miles inland, the scallop was as far from home as it would ever get, but it was happy in the totally electronic, fully computerized studio where it composed miniaturized, one-minute symphonies." - Post Toasted Stories, Siobhan Al-Gomez "Trinpan made bullets from his mother's antique furniture. The casings he would make from his father's belt buckles, which in turn had been made from his grandfather's school bells. His victims, however, were complete strangers, unrelated except for the fact that they'd all voted for the gunsmith as mayor." - fr. The Kinship Wars, Nikolai DiPiero "Tina was the penny in his life; his wife was the nickel." - fr. The Married Pocket, Aurora Stinger "Like most little boys, Jimmy suspected he had a worm inside him: endless, uncoiling at night to sneak out his ear, though most of it would be uncoiled and at rest in every part of his body. It was also the cause of shortcomings he would realize forty years later." - fr. Fully Cooked Memoirs, Henry Inez "The decision was whether to insert his tongue between the demitasse spoon of her big toe and the second toe, or between the fourth toe and the little toe which she held like a little finger arched beside a tea cup. Both places had that faint sweet and sour smell and led his eyes like a telescope at an overlook to the neat and dewy folds of her vulva. But she had propped herself up on her elbows and was looking at him quizzically, wondering about the delay." - fr. The Viagra Diaries, Alistaire Rimm "The old neighborhood was still haunted by her absence. Her festooned umbrellas could not be replaced by pin oaks drooping with mistletoe. The deep ditches and high curbs were no substitute for her torrents of figurative language buttressed by keen insight. People walked in that neighborhood as if they were mutes looking for a lost child, though the warm tortillas rolled and cupped in their hands offered some comfort." - fr. Sans Salsa, Fiona Betts-Garcia "It was another steely winter, branches and icicles making the same sound when they snapped. The sky merely lightened and darkened. A hundred and ten days of the same snapshot, the same smoke rising in the same way from the same chimney. Olga's dreams supplied the only variety, each of them different every night. Too bad she could not remember them, though she woke from each with the same thought: the dams will hold in spring." - fr. Phelgm-Phlam, Piers Wong "The instant the bullet entered his neck, the taste of grandfather's pipe bloomed in his mouth. Then he heard the drums. Two weeks later he awoke to the touch and blur of a pale hand stroking his arm. He turned to the window and bolted upright when he saw the rooftops of the West Village." - fr. Couture Shock, Mike Lost-Horses "Norway is quite dead so why even bother to slice iceberg lettuce? Why dye something black when you can buy it that way? Cut me." - fr. Where's The Fucking Doorman?, Sasha Glabrus "'Identity politics, that's what it is. Identity has become a buzzsaw in contemporary culture. Besides, there exists a relationship between mastery of the world and alienation from it. What does it mean to occupy an Archimedean vantage-point?,' asked Professor Freisian in the quiet of the lecture hall - so quiet that each student could hear the heartbeat of his/her neighbor." - fr. The Sixth Year, Rajdeep O'Reilly "Someone called him 'mummy wheat' and he immediately dialed the windows down to dusk, made sure his machine was synchronized with various satellites, and began the search in fourteen disciplines. Around 3 a.m. he realized no scholar or blogger had previously joined 'mummy' with 'wheat.' His intuition told him, however, that 'mummy wheat' was likely synonymous with 'dust'." - fr. The Smaller Questions, Albert Bryce "No matter which professional he hired to rid his mind of nymphestations, there always remained the high arch of a small foot facing heavenward." - fr. The Mother Ode, Pablo Cinquentas "These worms live in dichotomous earth, while these thrive beneath urban mulch. Those with the orange and red bands favor shower drains. Then there are the droopers, which hang above beds and camouflage themselves in the varying shades of dawn light." - fr. Sleeping With Mythyphous, Arnold Dheep -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ updated 8/3/06; refresh your browser From amparker at davidson.edu Sat Aug 5 13:17:08 2006 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 13:17:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] job opening Message-ID: Here's another job opening, with the Palm Beach Poetry Festival, that might be of interest--a marketing/pr hire. - AMP _________________________________ Job Description Position Title: Director of Marketing & Publicity Date: August 2006 Reports To: Festival Director Classification: Salary/Exempt Schedule: Full Time position at the discretion of the Director Summary of Purpose: Generate publicity for annual festival through national and local marketing campaigns, assuring public awareness and organizational growth for the Palm Beach Poetry Festival. Duties (Essential Functions): ? Work with Festival Director, festival faculty, workshop participants, and others on logistics and all related details ? Supervise, schedule and coordinate national and local ad and publicity campaign to include newspaper, magazine, radio, and internet venues ? Design print ads and publicity materials ? Maintain Website with frequent updates about festival events and information ? Develop and maintain relationships with both individuals and corporate partners, including, but not limited to, successfully securing event sponsors ? Cultivate relationship with poetry community of Palm Beach County and surrounding areas ? Establish and monitor revenue and expense goals ? Occasional travel to AWP and other writing conferences, as well as to New York to cultivate contacts there Qualifications/Requirements: ? Minimum two years of publicity, special event, and/or fundraising experience preferred ? Enthusiasm for and knowledge of contemporary poetry! ? M.F.A. in Creative Writing preferred ? Must be highly organized, efficient and have effective planning skills ? Ability to meet deadlines and maintain accurate reports, while being detailed-oriented on several projects at once ? Intermediate computer knowledge required: word processing, database, and design programs ? Requires flexibility in working hours for committee meetings and events We would prefer to hire someone who lives in Delray Beach or the surrounding area, so please don't apply unless you either live there or are able to move there by the first of September. If you are interested in applying, please send the following to Miles Coon, Festival Director, at PalmBeachPoeFest at aol.com by Wednesday, August 16: 1. A one-page cover letter stating why you'd like to work with the festival and what best qualifies you for the position. 2. A current resume, with three references and their contact information. 3. A list of your ten favorite books of poetry. www.palmbeachpoetryfestival.org From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 7 06:32:56 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:32:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kunitz on the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <001801c6ba0c$d8f6baa0$16df3052@ANNY> Halley's Comet Miss Murphy in first grade wrote its name in chalk across the board and told us it was roaring down the stormtracks of the Milky Way at frightful speed and if it wandered off its course and smashed into the earth there'd be no school tomorrow. A red-bearded preacher from the hills with a wild look in his eyes stood in the public square at the playground's edge proclaiming he was sent by God to save every one of us, even the little children. "Repent, ye sinners!" he shouted, waving his hand-lettered sign. At supper I felt sad to think that it was probably the last meal I'd share with my mother and my sisters; but I felt excited too and scarcely touched my plate. So mother scolded me and sent me early to my room. The whole family's asleep except for me. They never heard me steal into the stairwell hall and climb the ladder to the fresh night air. Look for me, Father, on the roof of the red brick building at the foot of Green Street- that's where we live, you know, on the top floor. I'm the boy in the white flannel gown sprawled on this coarse gravel bed searching the starry sky, waiting for the world to end. by Stanley Kunitz, from Passing Through. ? W.W. Norton & Co. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 7 06:35:30 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:35:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 103 ! Message-ID: <001f01c6ba0d$34918110$16df3052@ANNY> and all from Africa, from the Writer's Almanac: It's the birthday of anthropologist and archeologist Louis Leakey, (books by this author) born in Kabete, Kenya (1903). His parents were Anglican missionaries to Africa, and he lived in Kenya until he was sixteen. He studied anthropology at Cambridge at a time when most anthropologists believed that human beings had originated in Asia. But Leakey had read Darwin's theory that human beings might have originated in Africa, because Africa is the home of our closest relatives, chimpanzees and gorillas. As soon as he graduated from Cambridge, he moved back to Africa to prove Darwin right. In 1948, Leakey and his wife found one of the earliest fossil ape skulls ever discovered; it was between 25 and 40 million years old. It is now believed to be the skull of the ancestor of all large primates, including humans. Then, in 1959, he was with his wife when she found another hominid skull that was 1.75 million years old. It was the oldest skull of a close human relative ever found at that point, and it helped persuade other anthropologists that Africa was indeed the place where human beings had evolved. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 7 06:43:22 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:43:22 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] 103 ! References: <001f01c6ba0d$34918110$16df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <004001c6ba0e$4e48cc20$16df3052@ANNY> sorry, he died in 1972, and all from Africa, from the Writer's Almanac: It's the birthday of anthropologist and archeologist Louis Leakey, (books by this author) born in Kabete, Kenya (1903). His parents were Anglican missionaries to Africa, and he lived in Kenya until he was sixteen. He studied anthropology at Cambridge at a time when most anthropologists believed that human beings had originated in Asia. But Leakey had read Darwin's theory that human beings might have originated in Africa, because Africa is the home of our closest relatives, chimpanzees and gorillas. As soon as he graduated from Cambridge, he moved back to Africa to prove Darwin right. In 1948, Leakey and his wife found one of the earliest fossil ape skulls ever discovered; it was between 25 and 40 million years old. It is now believed to be the skull of the ancestor of all large primates, including humans. Then, in 1959, he was with his wife when she found another hominid skull that was 1.75 million years old. It was the oldest skull of a close human relative ever found at that point, and it helped persuade other anthropologists that Africa was indeed the place where human beings had evolved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Aug 7 07:53:13 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 04:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman @ 60 (of late on the blog) Message-ID: <20060807115313.41103.qmail@web31813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) Jack Kerouac and Book of Sketches ??? a major work arrives sans editing James L. Weil Another Last Poem Visions of Kerouac ??? Clark Coolidge as literary critic Blog comments are back Sylvester Pollet and Backwoods Broadsides reach a conclusion Language Is by John Phillips a new moment is post-Projectivist post-Objectivist poetry? Mid-American Chants by Sherwood Anderson Writing as the personal never applied Gabe Gudding on the history of creative writing and contemporary poetry Rebirth of the division between the School of Quietude and the post-avant tradition in Afghan poetry in the U.S. Geography, community and traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area A moment of comedy offered by Brad Leithauser in the NY Times The tragedy of David Ignatow http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 7 08:26:15 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:26:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ramy Ditzanny Message-ID: <006301c6ba1c$ad795b20$16df3052@ANNY> WE MAKE LOVE IN A MILITARY CEMETERY Late on Memorial Day we met at the graveyard's wrought-iron door; I'm one hundred percent disabled, she - a young widow-of-war (Of the last war, very likely, twenty three/four, couldn't be more). Had we met at roulette, exchanging a glance - The rest of my nights I'd have staked all on a chance, Had we met, moonlight led, at an occult s?ance - I'd have spent all my days in deep joyous trance. Had we met on the floor of a jazz ballet class - I'd have whirled away my life in everlasting dance. But it was in a graveyard we came face to face Thus my heart goes forever wandering off to that place - Dark silence. No breath. Our backs rest in peaceful green hair. And from fertile earth rises warm misty air ..."Am I not an almost perfect Israeli lover?" I enquire, eyes twinkling, in self-assured undertone - "You're one-hundred-percent!" she laughs, reassuring, "Just don't go tell it to them tombstones!" RAMY DITZANNY Translated by the poet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 7 08:30:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:30:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum Message-ID: <006c01c6ba1d$46eb4700$16df3052@ANNY> July 18, 2006 source: International Poetry Museum press release The International Poetry Museum, the first of its kind in the world, has established its headquarters in San Francisco by way of the National Poetry Association, to promote an active dedication to poets and poetry. Both Poetry Flash and the American Poetry Review along with 40 world class poets have supported the campaign for the creation of the International Poetry Museum. Not only poets but notables such as mayor, Gavin Newsom, US Representative, Nancy Pelosi and a list of others are in hearty support. The expanding library, currently holds volumes of poetry from over 50 countries, from Afghanistan to Zambia. http://www.internationalpoetrymuseum.org info at internationalpoetrymuseum.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Aug 7 08:52:03 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 05:52:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum In-Reply-To: <006c01c6ba1d$46eb4700$16df3052@ANNY> References: <006c01c6ba1d$46eb4700$16df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60608070552j1e13b580m7b9dc783fe590e79@mail.gmail.com> On 8/7/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > July 18, 2006 > source: International Poetry Museum press release > > The International Poetry Museum, the first of its kind in the world, has > established its headquarters in San Francisco by way of the National Poetry > Association, to promote an active dedication to poets and poetry. Both > Poetry Flash and the American Poetry Review along with 40 world class poets > have supported the campaign for the creation of the International Poetry > Museum. Not only poets but notables such as mayor, Gavin Newsom, US > Representative, Nancy Pelosi and a list of others are in hearty support. The > expanding library, currently holds volumes of poetry from over 50 countries, > from Afghanistan to Zambia. > > http://www.internationalpoetrymuseum.org > info at internationalpoetrymuseum.org > Why is the library space so small? And why "museum" instead of "library" or "archives"? And why has it rained so much in El Paso? -- Jim "The weaknesses are that some want the river and others want the pseudoparadise. Steve and Lupe represented both and went about achieving their dream by redefining the world one entry at a time, A to Z, and with considerable links to their past lives. When they weren't hard at work, they loved to talk about who would inhabit pseudoparadise. But that always ended in an unsettling silence when they had to admit that no species lives forever." - fr. Frogs, Woodpeckers, Owls, & Couples, A.A. Stemple ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ updated 8/3/06; refresh your browser From hruggier at localnet.com Mon Aug 7 12:37:29 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:37:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum References: <006c01c6ba1d$46eb4700$16df3052@ANNY> <648208b60608070552j1e13b580m7b9dc783fe590e79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401c6ba3f$c748c9a0$960b9942@Helen> I knew there were some magazines that served as poetry museums but I didn't realize there was an actual building. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum > On 8/7/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> July 18, 2006 >> source: International Poetry Museum press release >> >> The International Poetry Museum, the first of its kind in the world, has >> established its headquarters in San Francisco by way of the National >> Poetry >> Association, to promote an active dedication to poets and poetry. Both >> Poetry Flash and the American Poetry Review along with 40 world class >> poets >> have supported the campaign for the creation of the International Poetry >> Museum. Not only poets but notables such as mayor, Gavin Newsom, US >> Representative, Nancy Pelosi and a list of others are in hearty support. >> The >> expanding library, currently holds volumes of poetry from over 50 >> countries, >> from Afghanistan to Zambia. >> >> http://www.internationalpoetrymuseum.org >> info at internationalpoetrymuseum.org >> > > Why is the library space so small? And why "museum" instead of > "library" or "archives"? And why has it rained so much in El Paso? > > -- Jim > > "The weaknesses are that some want the river and others want the > pseudoparadise. Steve and Lupe represented both and went about > achieving their dream by redefining the world one entry at a time, A > to Z, and with considerable links to their past lives. When they > weren't hard at work, they loved to talk about who would inhabit > pseudoparadise. But that always ended in an unsettling silence when > they had to admit that no species lives forever." - fr. Frogs, > Woodpeckers, Owls, & Couples, A.A. Stemple > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > updated 8/3/06; refresh your browser > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 7 14:22:48 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 20:22:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum References: <006c01c6ba1d$46eb4700$16df3052@ANNY><648208b60608070552j1e13b580m7b9dc783fe590e79@mail.gmail.com> <003401c6ba3f$c748c9a0$960b9942@Helen> Message-ID: <008e01c6ba4e$7cb6d490$daad3452@ANNY> Let me continue, please, I knew there were some poets who were museums, _matusalemmi_ decrepit fossils (I am not talking of age: what are we but a whiff of opaque smoke in the dense smog) From: "Helen Ruggieri" Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:37 PM >I knew there were some magazines that served as poetry museums but I didn't >realize there was an > actual building. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Cervantes" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" > > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:52 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum > > >> On 8/7/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >>> >>> >>> July 18, 2006 >>> source: International Poetry Museum press release >>> >>> The International Poetry Museum, the first of its kind in the world, has >>> established its headquarters in San Francisco by way of the National >>> Poetry >>> Association, to promote an active dedication to poets and poetry. Both >>> Poetry Flash and the American Poetry Review along with 40 world class >>> poets >>> have supported the campaign for the creation of the International Poetry >>> Museum. Not only poets but notables such as mayor, Gavin Newsom, US >>> Representative, Nancy Pelosi and a list of others are in hearty support. >>> The >>> expanding library, currently holds volumes of poetry from over 50 >>> countries, >>> from Afghanistan to Zambia. >>> >>> http://www.internationalpoetrymuseum.org >>> info at internationalpoetrymuseum.org >>> >> >> Why is the library space so small? And why "museum" instead of >> "library" or "archives"? And why has it rained so much in El Paso? >> >> -- Jim >> >> "The weaknesses are that some want the river and others want the >> pseudoparadise. Steve and Lupe represented both and went about >> achieving their dream by redefining the world one entry at a time, A >> to Z, and with considerable links to their past lives. When they >> weren't hard at work, they loved to talk about who would inhabit >> pseudoparadise. But that always ended in an unsettling silence when >> they had to admit that no species lives forever." - fr. Frogs, >> Woodpeckers, Owls, & Couples, A.A. Stemple >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning >> ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html >> ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >> updated 8/3/06; refresh your browser >> _______________________________________________ From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 7 14:27:38 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 13:27:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "New Dawn" an abstract Message-ID: 1 EXPLOSION: SEQUENCE AND SIMULTANEITY Greenwich Time 11:16 P.M. August 5 1945... Hiroshima Time 6:16 P.M. " "... 2 GOODBYE TO TINIAN Now that all the"unauthorized items"are cleared from the bomber/... Colonel Tibbets, commander/... Addresses the crew, "just don't/Screw it up..." 3 TAKEOFF: TINIAN ISLAND ...Position taken... 4 MYSTIC NAME ...some name it"The Beast," and some... "Little Boy." 5 WHEN ... 6:30 A.M. Japanese Time, last lap to target... 6 IWO JIMA ...Advice bombing primary-i.e./Hiroshima... 7 SELF AND NON-SELF... /8 DAWN... 9 THE APPROACH Speed 200 miles per hour... /On time. Color/Of the world changes. /...like a dream. 10 WHAT THAT IS The apocalyptic blaze... Bursts... Hiroshima Time:8:16 A.M., August 6, 1945. 12 MANIC ATMOSPHERE... /13 TRIUMPHAL BEAUTY... 14 HOME "We made it!"... The mutual salute. At last... 15 SLEEP Some men, no doubt, will, before sleep, consider/One thought: I am alone. But some, /in the mercy of God, or booze, do not Long stare at the dark ceiling. --Robert Penn Warren [Note: The above is an abstract of a poem called "New Dawn," first published in the New Yorker issue dated Nov. 14, 1983] Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 9 14:09:37 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 14:09:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] International Poetry Museum Message-ID: <4f3.47f42d4.320b7ee1@aol.com> _http://www.writersmuseum.com/museum.asp_ (http://www.writersmuseum.com/museum.asp) I enjoyed visiting this Irish writers museum in Dublin...a few more photos and artifacts than the typical library display. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 9 14:17:58 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 14:17:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mudlark Message-ID: <35f.a27a47b.320b80d6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:48:18 -0400 From: "Slaughter, William" Subject: Notice: Mudlark New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 62 (2006) Five Poems by Liz Dolan Teresa of Avila, Mystic, Reformer, Exhorts Her Sisters Marie Curie Illuminates her Research for Us Marie Curie Speaks to Pierre Sister Dorothy Stang, 72, Reflects on her Assassination The Woman Who Held Her Ground Liz Dolan is a wife, mother, grandmother, retired English teacher; she is most proud of the alternative school she ran in the Bronx. She has eight grandchildren who live on the next block. One, David, has Downs Syndrome; he was born when she was grieving the loss of three family members in four months, one, an infant born dead. Now she knows David came to help her heal. Liz has published poems, memoir and short stories in The Delaware Anthology, New Delta Review, Rattle, Harpweaver, and Natural Bridge among others. A Delaware Division of the Arts fellowship recipient and a Pushcart nominee in fiction, her work in Mudlark, Poster No. 54 (2004), Lost Children, was chosen for The Best of the Web del Sol. Recently accepted as an associate artist in residence with Sharon Olds at the Atlantic Center for the Arts in New Smyrna Beach, Florida, she is also on the board of Philadelphia Stories. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 9 15:56:54 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:56:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mahon and MacNeice Message-ID: <504.4c529dd.320b9806@aol.com> _http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetry/features/0,,1826024,00.html_ (http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetry/features/0,,1826024,00.html) A sense of place Derek Mahon's work is often linked with that of his Northern Irish peers, Seamus Heaney and Michael Longley. But he argues that Belfast's literary tradition has deeper roots Nicholas Wroe Saturday July 22, 2006 The Guardian In September 1963 Derek Mahon, Seamus Heaney and Michael Longley visited the County Down grave of the great Northern Irish poet Louis MacNeice, who had died a short time before. Longley, writing recently in the introduction to a selection of MacNeice's poems, recalled that as they "dawdled between the graves" all three then-unpublished poets were silently "contemplating an elegy". When they next met, Mahon read them "In Carrowdore Churchyard": "Your ashes will not stir, even on this high ground / However the wind tugs, the headstones shake". Seamus Heaney started to read his poem but "then crumpled it up". Longley says he decided not even to attempt the task. "Mahon had produced the definitive elegy." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 10 11:55:46 2006 From: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk (gbemi tijani-mst) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:55:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: [New-Poetry] mentoring and project briefing -poets and philanthropic invitation Message-ID: <20060810155546.47056.qmail@web26006.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> 10/08/06 Dear poets, friends, anonymous interested writers, doctors, donors, agencies, non-profit org etc Subject: MENTORING CALL AND PROJECT BRIEFING keywords: motivational communuication for literary development and capacity building of patriots,philantropy for literary rescue/development,interventional cosultation for empowerment 1A.*credible like-minds ,poets,writers,partners, volunteers,philanthropists,donors, doctors, contributors, peer literary or development editors, collaborators or agencies, authors, friends home or abroad are invited to co-found a cbo- a community-based organization i.e a non profit,non-govermental organization (Development friendly foundation*) (Development friendly journal *) (Development friendly literary communications*) & 2A.A Consulting arm-Planet Gems very soon in August 2006 Amen. 3A. *creative & consulting writing grant or mentoring urgent & solicited by the convener-coordinator as a fulcrum of his literary miscellany development & Identified innovative publishing of other writers works 4.dff.mst Nb Whether you already know MST-the convener- or not and you ?re interested in any aspect of this project please feel free to ask more specific detail via email about this mentoring call or the Foundation (DFF) or the journal (DFJ) which is also different in content or focus from the DlitComm project which will promote, expose or popularize other selected writers/poets? works. This is a comparatively less privileged writer?s confessional. An Oliver Twist style of exposing his structural needs and resource link post to those better endowed to help in processing heaps of thoughts in proper readable format prior to the anonymous readers serving stage ?that is, if it appeals to anyone at all. *the power of the written word a perspective on the culture of multimedia literacy This is also locally and globally addressed to writers or poets or philanthropists, volunteers who share in development-friendly culture of improving well being and productivity of the peoples that we ecologically share destiny of humanity or of visiting their places as tourists, the interesting dis-ease of creativity generally and the business, compassion of treating this almost perennially if not eternally resourceful gift of writing generally. The written word as a stabilized but dynamic thought is potent, promising, and powerful beyond other weapons of communication that need other facilitators before they can be conveyed. Was it not in Mother Jones or Topic that John Updike, an American novelist and poet almost 30 years ago was alluding to the written word as the difference that makes the writer and the non?writer? Also as D.S.Hair, Western Ontario teacher and author of Browning?s Experiments With Genre said, ?for Engel freedom lies in words and in the multiplicity of the ways in which words order experience-which are often competing or overlapping or juxtaposed but they are always rich, vital and suggestive?. I have personally found poetry of great minds very hilarious, soothing and philosophical ?especially in D.O.Fagunwa?s mystic novel Ogboju Ode Ninu Igbo Irumole translated by Wole Soyinka, Nobel Laureate (1986) as Forests of a Thousand Demons -far before I know of gospel healing power through the word. 5.dff.mst Dear boosters here again I must confide to you that I really need an enlightened mentor to actualise my creative and project?idea miscellany productively-without quitting the health communication consultancy with the Nigerian Medical Association prematurely nor glossing over manuscript development. With all modesty I will also like to write and publish copiously. . I?m NOT only referring to socially responsible writings of the Achebes, Soyinkas, Ngugis, Nwangis, Bellwether Prize , Walt Witman, critical and historical novels of James Clavel,Ariel Dorfman,biographies of Irving Stone,scifis of Ray Bradbury,Arthur C. Clarke,amusing writings of Mark Twain, the growing poetry volumes and the ubiquitous lectures of Niyi Osundare but also to the high-profit writing of Bob Bly- a U.S.consultant, freelance writer, seminar leader and author of many books. In fact, Isaac Asimov, Edwin Morgan and Danie Abse have inspired and culturally stretched my writing horizon enormously. Apart from being consistently creative scientists,poets, productively prolific, not too facile but globally readable they brought all faculties into their multigenre writings. 6dff.dfj.mst .Mentoring Call-Grant Request-beyond the conveners needs *Literary reference bureau project & Multidisciplinary development Journal announcement The financial implications of processing and publishing ?especially those already written before computer literacy and the internet era and still have to appeal or compete for reading beyond the writers? attic ? cost of necessary research and multimedia agenda that some will definitely warrant is expensive. This modest convener urgently needs a mobile I.T.equipment as a basic structural boost. A laptop ?or even a richly configured software palmtop ,an external hard disk,a good flash disk in gigabites, an HP mini colour printer or a user-friendly different brand with proven less trouble shooting profile,a ipod for community folksongs research and storage ,a 3G Mobile Phone with 1.3 megtapixel Motion Eye camera,large ,bright 262k colourTFT SCREEN 64MB memory Stick PRO Duo , a Media Player WITH SONY MEGA Base not only to facilitate communication but also to back- up data transfer. Any other Quick-Share ?powerful model ?from Sony Ericson, NOKIA, MOTOROLA, LG,SAMSUNG with these attributes will be appreciated. This could also be a back up to outdoor access to creative or consulting file. Initially- an office- apart from the convener?s attic or dwelling is mandatory-before branch offices, corresponding poets and volunteers are considered internationally especially in the USA,UK,The Paris,Viena,Stockolm,Tokyo, East,West,North,South African cities rural and urban and of course the current hub of political activities in the West African sub-region- the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja & Lagos the perennial commercial nerve center of Nigeria. 7dff.dfj.mst. Writers ?and poets too! - are writing without computers - especially here in developing economies - TIJANI MST I must confess I started using the Pc unspeakably late. Though of course the Wernicle?s and the Artistic writing centers are responsible for creative writing in humans I can rightly say with regret because of lack of adequate modern paraphernalia of processing raw poems/writings other than the natural brains -only few writers in the developing countries could chest beat they ?re efficiently stabilizing their creative or commercial productions almost properly well enough and getting it across buddies or peers locally or globally to edit or comment or sell or be consulted with their output as New -Poetry ONLINE based in USA or BMJ in UK and numerous literary or professional journals as these counterparts writing in advanced I.T. settings. This also explains, albeit not an excuse -why many writers in developing countries haven?t designed a website. Volumes of worthy manuscript will be needlessly lost to oblivion or murdered away to proxy typing still because of writers computing illiteracy or again ignorance or nonchalance or poverty of skills. The widely translated million copies of Achebe?sThings Fall Apart almost got lost in the manuscript stage in his undergraduate days in the 60s at the University Of Ibadan ? after his crossing from medical school to the Arts Faculty of the same UI. Although man is a political animal, the compassion and driven force behind this mentoring call and project briefing is purely literary camaraderie-so to speak-not at all political. 8dff. At least starting personnel of 4 or 5 will be resourceful before further recruitment is warranted for the Foundation Agenda. Others will be operating on freelance?if needed. BASICS NEEDED-but not exhaustive A good fuel economy car is basic. A power support option ?a generator is becoming indispensable for appliance-intensive data work-copiously creative works and archives. Storage disks,good flash disks,external hard disks,laptops with internet facility,portable video camera and player,recorders and rich software library and anye-book that will enhance creative computing and related data management for the convener and his staff and use of freelance consultants that will visit or would like to be corresponding with the Foundation literary or development agenda. I would really like you to consider and act positively on this structural or financial empowerment as support or total mentoring. Your mentoring intervention could be structural and financial or just one of these options. You?re always recurring in my heart to fill this void tacitly. The foundation (dff) and the journal (dfj) project will cost about #10m ($76923.)1depending on the extent of collaborative projects we would be involving ourselves but definitely I would like us to MAKE IT A LIFE TIME IMPACT INITIATIVE- beyond mediocrity- targeting the productivity and well-being of the individual, community and corporate entity-supporting a fulfilling and productive lifespan should be our morale premise. 9.dff.dfj. Dflit.mst. WHY WE TRUST YOUR FORTITUDE TO PARTAKE IN THIS KIND OF PROJECT: Your integrity is beyond reproach. You appreciate creativity or inventivity per se- or selflessly and you?re aware that your creative productions or inventions alone, however precious still can?t alleviate the myriad of problems or lift barriers blocking or delaying true democracy in developing countries and egalitarian milieu in developed worlds-which are all desirable for uninhibited professional or creative fulfillment of citizens. A volunteer or a donor?s token forwarded voluntarily for promoting other creative endeavor or resource policies germane to the same can help to increase voice of the voiceless and change policies or inject compassion for the less privileged and the citizens we?re supposed to be serving or comforting. You?re humane or a humanitarian worker or agency. You?re professionally known, globally viable, exportable, culturally alert and decolonized elite, internationally net worthy, intellectually catalytic, morally dependable, resourceful, and rarely indifferent to Good Citizenship Project germane to social development. You?re not typically rich but have links or other structural resources for literary or development project as abstracted below and above. You?re interested in supporting the convener ?s dreams but you will like specific breakdown of priority needs or finances urgent-this is possible. *IF WE ACCEPT OURSELVES WE WOULD consider others in perspective and give them another chance just as we have always called on the superior creator for mercies or wisdom or succour when things are beyond our understanding. We can shorten a- linguistic tendencies, boost international understanding, enrich the human artistic culture catalyse endogenous development patterns if we aren?t so cocooned to our apathy or complacency. We can contribute writings as well as support materially or financially or link up to those that are much more endowed. In the 2004 Drumvoices revue, James G.Spady eloquently sites Larry Neal ?s view When we accept ourselves ?-all of ourselves(all that?s the most divinely human about us) we see in each other the best that we could all be Not in some simplistic assertions, But in the morality of our actions. And what, pray, tell is morality? Simply a system of social interaction that upholds the ultimate Holiness of human life that perpetuates the survival of the nation body of our people and then by extension of the entire planet. Therefore as, as the living words of Nation, we must firmly and honestly take our place in the timeless ,incessant,contorted,enlightening dialogue the ultimate purpose of human existence. Can we bring some manner of thought? Can we understand the operational significance of the past? Is the past the way or is it a trap? Are we strong enough to challenge ourselves? or will we enclose ourselves in a new prison of symbols simply because we are, like the West, afraid to leave the Garden?? As Paul B.Weis, author of The Science Of Biology said in his preface that there are many scientists who don?t believe in God and there are many like the earliest worker in laser beam discovery formerly of the California Institute of Tech that believe in prayers or at least divine power. I ?m sure the same goes for poets! May Providence-God Almighty crown your years with all the goodness that will glorify His name-for and beyond your identifying with this project finance and relevance to fulfill peoples purpose and career dream ?beyond mediocrity or selfish opulence. Amen 10dff.mst. dff literary project- - is devoted to providing a pipe for fresh voices as well as perennially or specifically relevant works whose aesthetics are poetically affecting or have had potent healing effects on the tides of change through our disvirgined African heritage and the so-called socio-political liberation. Though of course we?re open to diverse intellectual style -submissions that characterizes productive psychic landscape, expanding beyond the front lawn and kitchen table of contemporary African consumerisms. Our emphasis will be on works informed by experimental but lucidly impact writings-any genre or style, sharp and short or copiously thick but sociologically productive, revealing poetic or professional fruitfulness, psychological distillation of alien or incongruous development perspectives, holistic models with healing wings on currently acquired maligning docility prevalent in developing democracies, chronic rote learning, rotten excellence and endorsement of lavishness-all of which are responsible for snail speed patenting and creativity of the genius in African cerebrals till date. - Whereas more Nobel laureates, Awojobis, Manuwas, Lambos, Oshuntokuns,Ezekwezlis, Adeboyes,Odukoyas,Haggins,Copelands,Adenirans(bold earliest Christian and African theologist that risked his life, opposed polluted ,extraneous teaching of the bible in the colonial Nigeria), Bacon, Nnadis, Ajekigbes, Utomis, Gates, Emeagwales, Fagunwas, world cup players, Winston Churchill,Shakespeare,Benshaw, Abraham Lincoln, Dubois, Katherine Durham ought to have manifested in our development history since the gaga crystallized the scene for us in 1954.We?d be enthused to consider transgenre writings or creative works that promote discovery, synergise the disciplines insofar as the output does not jettison clarity, co-efficient of language, africanity and other ecologically confessional elements that might seize him or her by the scruff of the neck downloading his thoughts.(#3m) - Nb Please ignore all financial cost-they are frugal estimates based on fluctuating naira-dollar values. Just do something and ask for support guide or query before any contribution is made. - Acknowledgement will be made instantly to individual email addresses and online -convener 10/08/06 11dff.dffdfj.mst.A. LITERARY MISCELLANY by TIJANI MST Almost every environment offers a vast raw material for writing for a critical or creative writer. Contemporary world expediently widened by the global village- especially the Internet stretches this opportunity much more compulsively .The poet can decide to put it to positive advantage rather than focus on the negative and affective side. Nigeria is really blessed with enormous artistic and scientific talents but we need the right kind of policies and philanthropists that will support or mentor these talents beyond subsistence! 11B. GRANT PREVIEW ONLYA SEPARATE EMAIL FILE EXISTS FOR DETAILS SINCE 2004 11c. -#1.5m-inclusive of $3000.00 already annotated for authors association memberships, specific e-publishing and online subscriptions, in the May 2005 Writing Grant proposal ?Snippets, flash fiction, poetry, the poetry project, novella, anthology, collect-select, review works, P A, Button Books, multimedia works on cds, voice books ?special Audio books and anthologies etc NB.This multi-media literary development #1.5m & travel grant (#2m) to 12 cities in UK, USA, FRANCE, NORTHERN EUROPE, JAPAN, and ISRAEL is inclusive of the convener?s basic miscellany #6m earlier stated . All depending on distribution needs and global request by museums, national monuments, virtual libraries-Nigeria is just opening one at Abuja hopefully for the use of the public soon. Except those otherwise committed to dynamic professional or intellectual growth-mostly academics, doctors, lawers, pastors and writers Nigerian corporate and civil workers have no clear cut Library-virtual or hard copy till date. 11dflitcDff.. Also there are an increasing growth of folk dancers, singers comparable to Hip Hop Nation,hip hop fans in South Africa,African Americans,Subsaharan guys, Tupac Shakur,Afrika Bambaataa,Schoolly D.Eveand numerous others across the globe apart from the new jazz lovers replicating the African beats peculiar to or originated by the late Fela Anikulapo ?s afro profile.There are comedians,drama groups, home video companies who deserve ART/CULTURE GRANT or even bank loan for these viable artistic productions but this is really Herculean if not impossible till date Yet farmers of all seasons have always enjoyed micro-credit of some sort for poultry or cassava production. Ebiks Theartre,The Alajotas,Igbaca-ARTIST CO-OPERATIVE,Oloye ?s bilingual community tabloid in the vernacular/english (afon rere Yoruba) have been consistent enough in sustaining initiave to live on the arts for almost a decade I know this group that have featured at Educare Trust-a pro-active NGO committed to educational development and optimal planning /funding . n.subtotal-for 8 projects-#35.5m-THIRTY-FIVE million five hundred thousand naira only 12dff.mst. I hope this note meets you in the best of spirit. I?m sure you will also be blessed for this mentoring by Providence- the Supernatural poet ?since it all has to do with development friendly creativity and productive promotion of other entities, less privileged people-or identified Town Or Gown in need of advisory or resource through our Foundation or Journal or development friendly literary communications. INVITATION TO DONATE or CO-FOUND A NON -PROFIT Nb.I WILL MOST APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD KINDLY LINK ME UP WITH DEVELOPMENT FRIENDLY CHARITIES or philanthropists or writers interested in mentoring poets with diverse publishing agenda based in a developing country-Nigeria where I.T.Literacy is still very low. In fact because of unstable electric power here writers must not only have alternative power like UPS but also plan external hard disk or flash discs to back up literary creations otherwise computing his thoughts will be so frustrating. Good labtops or palm tops are still expensive. I really need facility support apart from financial grant to implement Foundation and the literary miscellany. AT LEAST #1m or # 5 m or more. Actually I need about #20m or $15873.17 as at June 2005 for a cluster of project including an NGO OUTFIT. To be honest?these are crude estimates. I don?t think less than #50m($39683.0 at 1:126) will be competitive as well as empowering because of the consulting arm that will be subsisting the foundation staff/activities when grants are still pending approval locally or from overseas agencies interested in our mission. *It is most vital for credibility that your support and its definition i.e total support or investment input in the overall gamut of development friendly creativity and advisory network convened & coordinated by GBEMI TIJANI MST be documented, acknowledged instantly. It?s also important my would-be mentor or facilitator open up if structural equipment for folk culture project research or social work or unspeakable poverty memoirs expo justifying reduction interventions is convenient than monetary grant. All help is resourceful and will be acknowledged with poetic conscience! No draft or cheque or cash will be touched except this is clarified and mutually acceded to the terms and conditions preferred by the mentor & the mentored.* Representative or proxy signatory is also possible if a mentor is commiting substantially enough resources. 13dff.mst. *I?m not even fixated to The Achebes and Soyinkas? genre though they are nonetheless very inspiring and challenging from my boyhood days till date! Imagine their perennial crusading for good governance via conscientious representative democracy sustained by the lively coals of human rights activism are just enough to popularize or demonstrate the social role of a writer- who could also be a doctor ,a journalist or any conscientious professional outside the corridors of power or the theatre guy that are either talented, inspired or scrupulously groomed for this cerebral and civil love. Their Kenyan counterpart, Ngugi Wa Tiogo is a notable addition. New but matured creative writers like Niyi Osundare , Biodun Jeyifo,Kole Omotosho,Lekan Olagoke, Odia Ofeimu ,Ben Okri and many more sword-drawn poets (with the same fervour and cerebral weaponry targeted at the selfish or perennially malevolent,anti-democratic governance of some African polities are) emerging and impacting through their literary craft. Niyi Osundare, cultural speaker, poet,teacher of teachers in poetry is well known for refusing acceptance of any political portfolio back home in Nigeria because of the usual of attrition powers that be prior to and after appointment. Candidly very few new generation writers can be compared with the like of Achebes ad Soyinkas? unflinching social conscience and refusal to bootlick the status quo. Many younger writers or poets in Nigeria and indeed Africa are already as prolific in volumes of works globally publishable or eligible for notable laureates and prizes including the Caines?s and Bellwether ?s ?though might not be unqualified rare stuff for the Nobel Prize probably because they have not practically done enough to improve the near genocide or the bare social existence of their people via their craft or communal sensitization this ought to have engendered. Though the compulsion that drives all writers may not be queried ?including arts for arts sake-altruistic creative and professional writings are also worthy of support and search. There are many writers and poets who aren?t exposed at all Sarah Anyawn ?s diary poems in copious volumes in her undergraduate days at the university of Ibadan,should have found a place in her literary career now that she?s bagged her Ph.D and currently teaching classics in Cameroun. Many doctors and other professionals globally are involved in this unique but tedious expressive craft yet volumes of these works will even die with them nor just go into oblivion even if they are still alive. I?m meditatively impelled more to recall the introspection I wrote years back as a high school teacher in Ogun state,Nigeria while leading an International Cultural club for students. . 14dff.mst I ?m now thinking of opening an independent consulting office to actualize some of these ideas that are now relevant to optimal health, well-being and germane to improving, sensitizing productivity of the community, academics, health workers, agile, urban petty traders resource link to the talented or even organizations in need of very vital info or collaboration for a shared productive/development goal. Project priority and foundation focus meetings will be convened for review and editing of the mission and allied fruitful goals envisioned. Or again: you could partner with me to initialize and actualize any of the ideas I might prioritize. Time is now! My heart is open to collaboration with like minds-insofar as the support is clearly defined. Key word: creative, consulting and practical IIEC productions (to be copyrighted) This financial request is not a lump budget for WHAT IS ON MY MIND but at least it?ll be resourceful to start something, recruit assistants, prioritize a proposal, equip frugally- but not impotently. We can then project profitability (for consulting services, assess impact for interventions) and lay bare allocation of gains from perennial pains. We would be identifying needs and priorities and barriers inherent in attaining or accessing them, Involved in planning, designing and producing educational, inspirational and informational materials that will help to modify behaviour or change attitude, embrace new values, conform to psycho-environmental decorum, alert to or become pro-active to basic civic or even sexual matter/responsibilities relating to public health, economics and human ecology. I look forward to your immediate or interested kind actions ?even this week or today by email first. 15.DFF.DFJ.DFLITC.MST I?m acting locally but looking globally for poets or partners or professionals or philanthropists with shared concern for our fundamental objective of strengthening efforts For good democratic governance in Nigeria and Africa or proffer solutions for Value Reconstruct through a specifically designed initiative or collaboration capable of improving or reinforcing productivity. well-being in an identified corporate, community ,campus or individual entity. I hope this impact favourably with The Millennial Development Goals and if combined with a new value orientation for a selfless living and enlightened socio-political functioning and citizenry. This might minimize or discourage not totally avoid as such -the inherent peril of consumerism. This is already widening unspeakable social inequity and breeding rats in the race for inordinate cash stack. Kindly call or reach me by email: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk Thanks for your past helps and affability across the years. I really urgently need a more substantial financial help from you as abstracted above. Receipt and allied documentation will be given instantly or provided upfront or perfected as mutually preferred. As The Talmud said, loving ?kindness is greater than laws and the charities of life are greater than all the ceremonies. Whereas judicious turning of our problems into benevolent enterprise is full of challenging service and therefore not at all lacking in prosperity - it should be appropriately planned and financed I hope you will not be wearied of helping for effective living by improving well being and productivity. I trust your fortitude and inherent compassion for A C T I O N NOW! JUSTIFICATION FOR LITERARY MISCELLANY GRANT As American writers? mentor, Bellwether said Fiction has a unique capacity to bring difficult issues to a broad readership on a personal level, creating empathy in a reader?s heart for the theoretical stranger. Its capacity for invoking moral and social responsibility is enormous. MST,07/07/2006 * updated01/08.06 Cordially as ever, GBEMI TIJANI MST Mobile 08035711291,08022360406 Email: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk Contact:M.D.Okay pharmacy, Suite 16 ,Agbowo Shopping Complex,opp. U.I. Main Gate,Agbowo, Ibadan. p.s.referees :Barr.J.A Ige ,Prof O.Oladepo, Prof MKC Sridhar,Dr J.O.Olabisi,Prof I.F.Adewole Dr. Williams Bill Brieger(usa) Dr L.A.Tijani (usa) Dr.Damitha Ratnasinghe(uk),Rose Balogun( uk),Dr Sarah Akinyemi (nee Stevenson,UK) --------------------------------- The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Thu Aug 10 13:44:56 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:44:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] mentoring and project briefing -poets and philanthropic invi... Message-ID: <594.6a6cde00.320cca98@aol.com> The Nigerian bank scam goes literary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 16:31:29 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:31:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Message-ID: Bored at work, I did a few searches. 1. Yeats was grand master flash at the *London* temple of the GD Order. Prior to this, he formed the Dublin Hermetic Club. 2. Although he *talked about an Irish GD Order based on mystical principles and legends - and there are vague references to an Irish GD order[1] - a point against WB joining/creating an Irish temple is that Maud Gonne came to dislike the Order because of it's connections with British Freemasonry and she regarded it as a British Imperialist plot. Some say that's why she resigned in the end; some say that Yeat's membership of the Order is the reason she refused to marry him first time around. The links between Astrology and Fascism are well established. Whether or not the Irish fascists had any *continuing* connection with Astrology, I don't know. I got sick of bad HTML by the time I'd finished my searches :-) As is in walks of life, you get the occasional oddball who doesn't like the way things are run. An interesting point is that Yeats, apparently, found the certainties of this stuff to be quite liberating. I reserve the right to have no certainties, and not to worship at the feet of any guru. Roger [1] I can find no Irish temple until 1976. The three main ones are in London, Edinburgh and Paris, with an offshoot in New Zealand. On 8/2/06, elemenope at icubed.com wrote: > Dave, > > Yeats didn't found the Order in Ireland? Wasn't it his doing as part of > his "secret" activities there? > I'll have to read the new collected papers to get his dealing with > Blatvatsky and Orage and Waite straight. > > I'm interested in probing the occult facts, not in engaging in pedantic > sniping. So, it's not merely "fascinating" to me. It's important. > > So, if you can deliver updates on relevant views of "The Vision" that > don't dismiss it out of hand because it is seen as gobbledegook or > whatever, I'm all ears. I knmow you have access to this kind of > information, but I don't know whether you take it seriously. I do, and I > believe that poetry ought to. I'm tired of poets assuming that > Probability Theory is the appropriate ground for their tests of reality. > That was one of the issues that caused me to not identify, at bottom, with > the Language Poets, for instance. > > Remember the heroism of Witte when he refused to work for Hitler. The > great astrologers are animated by liberty. Yeats, as well, was not a > fascist, he was an astrologer and occultist. > > Richard > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 11:33:29 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:33:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Message-ID: It's important to point out that the GD Order was formed by three chancers: Dr. William Robert Woodman, William Wynn Westcott, and Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, who were Freemasons and members of Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia. The original Dublin Hermetic Society was formed in 1885, affiliated with the Theosophical Society. It was reformed and renamed by AE in 1886 as the Dublin Lodge of the Theosophical Society. This is based around the commune in Upper Ely Place. Yeats didn't seem to be interested in the reformed organisation. According to my sources, there was no Irish Order of the Golden Dawn in Yeats' day. Howeveer, he tried to set-up the School of Celtic Mysteries: http://www.epwijnants-lectures.com/nat_occult.html this part is worth quoting: Yeats worked for Irish independence, but he conceived of it in terms that were primarily related to his occult studies. And Yeats hoped to gain intimate knowledge of a sacred or "hidden" Ireland through his occult practices. He saw occult practice as a source of reliable information about the connections between the symbols he used in his literary work and the wellsprings of national and occult knowledge. In order to claim this secret knowledge, he and several other students of the occult planned to revive the Druidic mysteries as mentioned, in a stone castle on Trinity Island, in the middle of Lough Key in County Roscommon. Maud Gonoe, William Sharp (who wrote under the oame of Fiona Macleod), George Pollexfen, Annie Horniman, Dorothea Hunter, AE, and Maty Briggs all worked closely with Yeats to design the Castle's rituals and symbolism. Yeats also consulted with the founder of the Golden Dawn, MacGregor Mathers. ( John Kelly ed, The Collected Letters of W.B. Yeats. Volume Two, 1997, p. 663-69.) The Castle was never built, but Yeats and his collaborators hoped to establish it as the spiritual center of Irish culture. For six years, they worked tirelessly designing its rituals, symbols, ornamentation, and teachings. They read scholarship about Irish myths and borrowed from Golden Dawn teachings, but their primary research methods were the visionary explorations they recorded in their private notebooks. Yeats,Maud Gonne, George Pollexfen, Annie Horniman, and other members of the Castle described "astral" journeys in which they penetrated the recesses of a "bidden" Ireland and extracted its sacred power. As a rite of passage, the labyrinth gave shape to the Castle's underlying political fantasy: that a devoted cabal of 'initiates' could work secretly to shape Irish imaginative culture using the symbols they drew from Celtic myths and occult experience. For Yeats, the labyrinth reflected the imperfect conditions of human knowledge and the lengthy process by which self awareness is achieved. As he wrote in Per Amico Silentia Lunae, the fate of human knowledge is to follow the winding "path of the serpent" and hope for "sudden lightning" flashes of illumination. (W.B. Yeats, Per Amico Silentia Lunae, 1918, p. 39.) Yeats's claim to inhabit a sacred nationalist tradition required him to engage in constant struggle with his fellow students of the occult. This struggle and the knowledge born of it were what distinguished Yeats and his collaborators from an 'uninitiated Irish public'. To further distinguish themselves, they implicitly compared their struggles to Oisin's battle with the demon, the lives of saints, and the convention of the "long night of the soul." Note that Yeats consulted with MacGregor Mathers in trying to start the school. So, no Irish Golden Dawn. However, Yeats did a lot of research trying to create a Celtic School of Mysteries, which does not appear to have survived his involvement. I wholley reccommend http://www.yeatsvision.com/ This contains a heckova lot about Yeats and his mage-tendancies. An interesting round-trip, with some strange snippets on the way. Mondrian latched on the theosophic idea of grids. Pound was friendly with Yeats (not much about this in the Kenner book); it's been asserted that Pound based the Cantos on theosophic teachings, something which deserves more research on my part. Roger On 8/10/06, Roger Day wrote: > Bored at work, I did a few searches. > > 1. Yeats was grand master flash at the *London* temple of the GD > Order. Prior to this, he formed the Dublin Hermetic Club. > > 2. Although he *talked about an Irish GD Order based on mystical > principles and legends - and there are vague references to an Irish GD > order[1] - a point against WB joining/creating an Irish temple is that > Maud Gonne came to dislike the Order because of it's connections with > British Freemasonry and she regarded it as a British Imperialist plot. > Some say that's why she resigned in the end; some say that Yeat's > membership of the Order is the reason she refused to marry him first > time around. > > The links between Astrology and Fascism are well established. Whether > or not the Irish fascists had any *continuing* connection with > Astrology, I don't know. I got sick of bad HTML by the time I'd > finished my searches :-) As is in walks of life, you get the > occasional oddball who doesn't like the way things are run. > > An interesting point is that Yeats, apparently, found the certainties > of this stuff to be quite liberating. I reserve the right to have no > certainties, and not to worship at the feet of any guru. > > Roger > > [1] I can find no Irish temple until 1976. The three main ones are in > London, Edinburgh and Paris, with an offshoot in New Zealand. > > On 8/2/06, elemenope at icubed.com wrote: > > Dave, > > > > Yeats didn't found the Order in Ireland? Wasn't it his doing as part of > > his "secret" activities there? > > I'll have to read the new collected papers to get his dealing with > > Blatvatsky and Orage and Waite straight. > > > > I'm interested in probing the occult facts, not in engaging in pedantic > > sniping. So, it's not merely "fascinating" to me. It's important. > > > > So, if you can deliver updates on relevant views of "The Vision" that > > don't dismiss it out of hand because it is seen as gobbledegook or > > whatever, I'm all ears. I knmow you have access to this kind of > > information, but I don't know whether you take it seriously. I do, and I > > believe that poetry ought to. I'm tired of poets assuming that > > Probability Theory is the appropriate ground for their tests of reality. > > That was one of the issues that caused me to not identify, at bottom, with > > the Language Poets, for instance. > > > > Remember the heroism of Witte when he refused to work for Hitler. The > > great astrologers are animated by liberty. Yeats, as well, was not a > > fascist, he was an astrologer and occultist. > > > > Richard > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri Aug 11 12:16:21 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:16:21 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu><2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> Message-ID: <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" > It's important to point out that the GD Order was formed by three > chancers: Dr. William Robert Woodman, William Wynn Westcott, and > Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, who were Freemasons and members of > Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia. And let's not forget Aleister Crowley. Comic writing lost a master when Crowley decided to make Satanism his day job, as anyone who has read Crowley on Yeats and the Golden Dawn in his +Autobiography+ can testify. R. Just looked -- the wikipedia article is useful here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley RR. From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 11 12:22:21 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:22:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu><2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <561830EB-6930-4FDB-939F-D95965D48EB4@earthlink.net> Yeats, Shaw, Bircumsphinx Hal, who sometimes gets things entirely mixed up Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 13:19:43 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:19:43 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: I was trying to avoid him. It's like being sucked into a quagmire. When I originally said that paper was worth quoting it's full of spelling errors and, according to my source, factual ones as well. It's the only net source I could find. Caveat emptor. Cawley's "Castle of Heroes" seems to be the source for the Celtic Mysteries School. Mind you, it all sounds scooby dooish. Roger On 8/11/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > > It's important to point out that the GD Order was formed by three > > chancers: Dr. William Robert Woodman, William Wynn Westcott, and > > Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, who were Freemasons and members of > > Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia. > > And let's not forget Aleister Crowley. Comic writing lost a master when > Crowley decided to make Satanism his day job, as anyone who has read Crowley > on Yeats and the Golden Dawn in his +Autobiography+ can testify. > > R. > > Just looked -- the wikipedia article is useful here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley > > RR. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 13:21:11 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:21:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <561830EB-6930-4FDB-939F-D95965D48EB4@earthlink.net> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <561830EB-6930-4FDB-939F-D95965D48EB4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: *Do keep up, old boy. There's a test later. Roger On 8/11/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Yeats, Shaw, Bircumsphinx > > Hal, who sometimes gets things entirely mixed up > > Serving the tristate area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 11 13:45:31 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:45:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <561830EB-6930-4FDB-939F-D95965D48EB4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Oh, no! I hate it when that happens. Hal Serving the tristate area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 11, 2006, at 12:21 PM, Roger Day wrote: > *Do keep up, old boy. There's a test later. > > Roger > > On 8/11/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Yeats, Shaw, Bircumsphinx >> >> Hal, who sometimes gets things entirely mixed up >> >> Serving the tristate area. >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at gmail.com >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Fri Aug 11 14:38:56 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 19:38:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu><2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com><7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Roger: >I was trying to avoid him. It's like being sucked into a quagmire. Yeah, the Birk isn't going to be happy about me bringing up the Great Beast. When he and I were chatting on the phone the other night about this thread, and I mentioned Crowley, dave warned me off. Robin > When I originally said that paper was worth quoting it's full of > spelling errors and, according to my source, factual ones as well. > It's the only net source I could find. Caveat emptor. Cawley's > "Castle of Heroes" seems to be the source for the Celtic Mysteries > School. Mind you, it all sounds scooby dooish. > > Roger From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 11 15:23:26 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 21:23:26 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New film and media studies books from University of Minnesota Press Message-ID: <013d01c6bd7b$9ebf1db0$e7df3652@ANNY> New film and media studies books from University of Minnesota Press ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Lienemann To: University of Minnesota Press Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: New film and media studies books from University of Minnesota Press GUY DEBORD: Revolution in the Service of Poetry Vincent Kaufmann Translated by Robert Bononno University of Minnesota Press | 384 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4455-1 | hardcover | $29.95 The definitive biography of the author of The Society of the Spectacle and a compelling account of his war against inauthenticity. Writer, artist, filmmaker, revolutionary, and impresario of the Situationist International, Guy Debord shunned the apparatus of publicity he dissected brilliantly in his most influential work, The Society of the Spectacle. In this ambitious and innovative biography, Vincent Kaufmann places Debord's hostility toward the inquisitive gaze at the center of an investigation into his subject's diverse output-from his earliest films to his landmark works of social and political provocation. "Many people felt Debord could not be classified. Yet, this is what drew me to him most, the fact that he was unclassifiable, difficult to approach, dismissive of those who tried to describe him, and always willing to challenge them. I admire his art of defiance, his belligerent and melancholy poetics. He forces you to keep your distance, he deprives you of the convenience and hypocrisy found in what Baudelaire referred to, in the beautiful language of his century, as fraternal prostitution. I am neither Debord's equal nor his brother, but these may be qualities no reader can claim to have." -from the Introduction For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/K/kaufmann_guy.html THE CINEMA DREAMS ITS RIVALS: Media Fantasy Films from Radio to the Internet Paul Young University of Minnesota Press | 360 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-3598-6 | hardcover | $75.00 ISBN 0-8166-3599-4 | paperback | $25.00 Reveals the complexity of the ties between Hollywood and new media. Paul Young looks at the American cinema's imaginative constructions of three electronic media-radio, television, and the Internet-at the times when these media seemed to hold limitless possibilities. The Cinema Dreams Its Rivals demonstrates that Hollywood is marked by the advent of each new medium, but conversely, the identities of the media are themselves changed as Hollywood turns them to its own purposes. "An important interrogation of technological mediation in culture, The Cinema Dreams It Rivals delves into film history to find instances of 'media fantasies'-moments when extant technologies construct myths about other, newer media." -Donald Crafton For more information, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/Y/young_cinema.html INCORPORATIONS: Race, Nation, and the Body Politics of Capital Eva Cherniavsky University of Minnesota Press | 224 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4604-X | hardcover | $58.50 ISBN 0-8166-4605-8 | paperback | $19.50 An exploration of race, Hollywood, and the commodification of the body. Incorporations offers a new way of thinking about issues of race, bodies, and commodity culture. Moving beyond the study of identity and difference in media, Eva Cherniavsky asserts that race can be understood as a sign of the body's relation to capital. Cherniavsky demonstrates how representations of racial embodiment have evolved, and suggests that "race" is the condition of exchangeable bodies under capital. "A first-rate study that advances discussions of race in materialist and theoretically subtle directions." -Eric Lott For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/C/cherniavsky_incorporations.html ALIENHOOD: Citizenship, Exile, and the Logic of Difference Katarzyna Marciniak University of Minnesota Press | 272 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4576-0 | hardcover | $67.50 ISBN 0-8166-4577-9 | paperback | $22.50 A timely and critical understanding of transnational culture. Interrogating the dominant images of aliens in American popular culture, Katarzyna Marciniak examines "alienhood" and the impact it has on the daily experiences of migrants, legal or illegal. Using examples from exilic literature and cinema, including the works of Julia Alvarez, Eva Hoffman, Gregory Nava, and Roman Polanski, Alienhood theorizes multicultural experiences of liminal characters that belong in the interstices between nations. "Katarzyna Marciniak effectively combines telling examples from popular culture and a sophisticated theoretical framework to explain the representation and history of 'foreignness' in the U.S. imagination." -Julia Lesage For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/M/marciniak_alienhood.html For information about examination copies, view our exam copy policy online: http://www.upress.umn.edu/ordering/examination.html For more film and media studies books, visit our website: http://www.upress.umn.edu/bysubject/media.html You are signed up for University of Minnesota Press E-news. If you wish to be removed from this list, please email lieneman at umn.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 8422 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 10810 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 10954 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 11830 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Fri Aug 11 17:12:14 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 22:12:14 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu><2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com><7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <001701c6bd8a$d33d6330$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Me, the Sphinx and a very booming voiced Anglo-Irish ghost are struggling to keep straight faces here. All the Best smilin' Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > Roger: > > >I was trying to avoid him. It's like being sucked into a quagmire. > > Yeah, the Birk isn't going to be happy about me bringing up the Great Beast. > When he and I were chatting on the phone the other night about this thread, > and I mentioned Crowley, dave warned me off. > > Robin > > > When I originally said that paper was worth quoting it's full of > > spelling errors and, according to my source, factual ones as well. > > It's the only net source I could find. Caveat emptor. Cawley's > > "Castle of Heroes" seems to be the source for the Celtic Mysteries > > School. Mind you, it all sounds scooby dooish. > > > > Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 21:19:13 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:19:13 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <561830EB-6930-4FDB-939F-D95965D48EB4@earthlink.net> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <561830EB-6930-4FDB-939F-D95965D48EB4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60608111819g484ed1b5g1b9f4a441dd91a1d@mail.gmail.com> Could have been far worse. Circumsphinx etc. - Jim On 8/11/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Yeats, Shaw, Bircumsphinx > > Hal, who sometimes gets things entirely mixed up > > Serving the tristate area. > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ updated 8/3/06; refresh your browser From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 02:17:29 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 07:17:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <001701c6bd8a$d33d6330$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <001701c6bd8a$d33d6330$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: OK, you've got my interest piqued. Aleister Crowley seems to me to be a burlesque bryron, a parody of all the adventurer poets, a small-time comic who tried to make it big. I think he had the potential to do something really big or nasty but he was in it for the sex. That a few of his followers should die along the way, that he should commit treason at various points, is of no consequence to the old goat. Crowley seems to never to have had a moral compass. His links to British Intelligence are very murky - in the 1WW, when he did actually commit treason by writing anti-British propaganda - they saved him from the chop. He was at or near the scene of the death of Maxwell-Knight's wife after some occult nastiness. Maxwell-Knight was head of MI6 at the time, and the model for Fleming's M. In the 2WW, where it was rumoured that he worked for the Germans, he did work for the British, but only on a leaflet-dropping campaign. Ah, such a broad reach our Master Crowley. Where it gets a little less comic is the connection with the Thule Gessellschaft. Apparently they were highly influenced by the Sex Magic of one of his lodges. In one of his trips through Germany, he tried to get into contact with Hitler through the the Thule Gessellschaft . The Thule Gessellschaft - another Hermetic Society - is a very dodgy organisation in Germany in the first part of the 20th century: see http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society. They bought a newspaper which later became the V?lkischer Beobachter, the Nazi party mouthpiece. Members of the Thule Gesselschaft came up with the Swastika. Another prominent member was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rosenberg Now there's a nasty piece of work. Amusingly, Rudolf Hess was persuaded to defect to England by some by, uh, black-ops Astrology - Ian Fleming, another arch-fantasist - was involved. On arrival in England, Hess was supposed to be met by members of the Golden Dawn http://freemasonrywatch.org/P2.html. Actually, this page http://www.blackraiser.com/nredoubt/ident2.htm is a scream. Particularly the bit were Hitler emerges from hospital with no artistic talent but a "seasoned diplomat". Apparently, Crowley was responsible for this as well. WTF are these people on? I can't actually believe I'm writing this. It's almost like a parallel history of the 20th centrury. Tell me again how Astrology is a force for good in the world? I bet DaveB owns "White Stains". If google ever release a list of my search terms from the past two days I shall claim that I was working for British Intelligence. Roger On 8/11/06, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Me, the Sphinx and a very booming voiced Anglo-Irish ghost are struggling to > keep straight faces here. > > All the Best > > smilin' > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx > > > > Roger: > > > > >I was trying to avoid him. It's like being sucked into a quagmire. > > > > Yeah, the Birk isn't going to be happy about me bringing up the Great > Beast. > > When he and I were chatting on the phone the other night about this > thread, > > and I mentioned Crowley, dave warned me off. > > > > Robin > > > > > When I originally said that paper was worth quoting it's full of > > > spelling errors and, according to my source, factual ones as well. > > > It's the only net source I could find. Caveat emptor. Cawley's > > > "Castle of Heroes" seems to be the source for the Celtic Mysteries > > > School. Mind you, it all sounds scooby dooish. > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Aug 12 02:52:44 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 07:52:44 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu><2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com><7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><001701c6bd8a$d33d6330$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <7ce701c6bddb$ea497d10$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" > OK, you've got my interest piqued. > > Aleister Crowley seems to me to be a burlesque bryron, a parody of all > the adventurer poets, a small-time comic who tried to make it big ... Yup. It's a small thing, I know, but what I find most difficult to forgive is Crowley's hijacking of the motto of Rabelais' Abbey of Thelema for his fatuous nonsense. Two writers more difficult to associate than Rabelais and Crowley it's difficult to imagine, but someone on wikipedia seems to take this seriously. I think Sir Francis Dashwood and the Hellfire Club were stirred into the mix somewhere, but as by that point I wasn't paying too much attention, I may be wrong. :-( Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 04:11:15 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:11:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <7ce701c6bddb$ea497d10$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <001701c6bd8a$d33d6330$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <7ce701c6bddb$ea497d10$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: On 8/12/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > > OK, you've got my interest piqued. > > > > Aleister Crowley seems to me to be a burlesque bryron, a parody of all > > the adventurer poets, a small-time comic who tried to make it big ... > > Yup. > > It's a small thing, I know, but what I find most difficult to forgive is > Crowley's hijacking of the motto of Rabelais' Abbey of Thelema for his > fatuous nonsense. > > Two writers more difficult to associate than Rabelais and Crowley it's > difficult to imagine, but someone on wikipedia seems to take this seriously. Whoever did that, can't spell monastery :-) I'm not going to change it ... > I think Sir Francis Dashwood and the Hellfire Club were stirred into the mix > somewhere, but as by that point I wasn't paying too much attention, I may be > wrong. > > :-( > > Robin Unfortunately, yes. But the whole thing seems typical of the Crowleyan method. Find some legitimate authority, fictional or otherwise, that somehow endorses your behaviour, then flog it, or your followers, to death. Repeat until satisfied. Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 13 21:42:04 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:42:04 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Austin hosts National Poetry Slam Message-ID: <588.2d9b96b.32112eec@aol.com> _http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=168457_ (http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=168457) Austin hosts National Poetry Slam 8/13/2006 12:58 PM By: News 8 Austin Staff Slam poets threw down to crown a champion Saturday at the Palmer Events Center. And with so much on the line, participants went beyond spoken word. Teams competing in the finals of the National Poetry Slam _http://www.austinslam.com/nps06/_ (http://www.austinslam.com/nps06/) weren't afraid to add a little music and dance to make their performances stand out. All week long slam poets have put their craft on display at venues around Austin. The Palmer Events Center played host to the finals where it's all about making the poetry part of an overall entertainment experience. "We blend a lot of different art forms together- we have stage combat, we have spoken word, we have dance," Ananda Moss of Uprise Productions said. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 13 22:29:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:29:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poet of the opera Message-ID: <4ff.4db806f.321139ec@aol.com> _http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/review.cfm?id=1176952006_ (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/review.cfm?id=1176952006) The poet-tree of life AIDAN SMITH HE BUNKED off to write novels and plays and to make films, but his first love - not counting rock 'n' roll, which is where he really wishes he plied his trade - is poetry. All of which probably explains, in a roundabout way, why Simon Armitage just had to get that opera out of his system. "It's very long trousers, isn't it?" he says of The Assassin Tree, which will be world-premiered at the Edinburgh Festival. Extremely long trousers. Armitage is a post-punk rhythm guitarist wannabe waiting for it to be 1978 all over again. An expert rhymer who every day tries to better the Undertones' marrying of "cabbage" with "University Challenge" but knows he never will. The secret fifth member of the Fire Engines, one of Edinburgh's greatest-ever combos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 13 22:34:45 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:34:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] re: HOWL! Fifty Years Later: A Symposium. SATURDAY AUGUST 19, an all day event! Message-ID: Bowery Arts & Science, Ltd. announces The Poem that Changed America... HOWL! Fifty Years Later: A Symposium based on the book edited by Jason Shinder ?Who wandered around and around at midnight in the railroad yard wondering where to go, and went, leaving no broken hearts? from "HOWL," Allen Ginsberg. Wandering? Wondering? Here is an opportunity to be a part of history! HOWL! FIFTY YEARS LATER: A SYMPOSIUM will be a day-long event on SATURDAY, AUGUST 19 at the renowned Bowery Poetry Club. The afternoon will open at 1:00pm with a four-hour seminar featuring authors who contributed to The Poem that Changed America: Howl! Fifty Years Later, edited by Ginsberg scholar and activist Jason Shinder, who will preside over the event. Expect performances, talks, and a ton of audience participation with Amiri Baraka, Alicia Ostriker, Robert Polito, David Gates, Bob Rosenthal, Gordon Ball, Kurt Brown. For complete schedule go to www.bowerypoetry.com and click on the 'calendar' link! At 5:00 pm there will be ?A Public Howl!? Edwin Torres will conduct the audience/performers (it?s all one!) in the 23 minute magnum opus. Come armed with your favorite lines or work spontaneously like the rest of us. At 6:00pm there will be a ?Howl Speakout!? Share your stories, poems, memories: How did the poem that changed America change you? At 8:00pm the legendary Amiri Baraka will give a full-tilt performance with his hometown band, Newark's BLUE ARK. Amina Baraka will be singing and poeticizing and making trouble as well. Coming Next! POETRY NOW! THE EAST VILLAGE SCENE on SATURDAY AUGUST 26th (another all-day event!). A seminar including panel discussions, live interviews, and performances to illuminate the roots and traditions of the historical and present cultures of the Downtown Poetics. More information coming soon! Admission is $10 for one day, $7 each for both days. Amiri + Amina Baraka + Blue Ark: $12/$6 for students with ID. The Bowery Poetry Club is located at 308 Bowery (between Houston and Bleecker). Take the F train to 2nd Ave, 6 train to Bleecker. 212.615.0505/www.bowerypoetry.com About Bowery Arts & Science: Bowery Arts and Science is a nonprofit organization seeking to preserve and enhance the oral tradition of poetry via live readings, media documentation and creation, and to restore poetry to the center of our culture, as it is in oral cultures. Our mission includes a strong educational component, introducing all manner of poetries to students of all ages; the preservation of endangered languages via the valuation of the poetry of these cultures; and the infusion and integration of poetry with other arts and the daily life of the citizenry. For further information: www.boweryartsandscience.org/212.334.6414 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Aug 14 08:14:52 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 05:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20060814121452.95813.qmail@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS The plastic poetry of Jessica Smith (the most ambitious book of 2006) Steve Reich at 70 and other notes Celery Flute a journal devoted to Kenneth Patchen Cinema and spirituality Travellers (sic) and Magicians Kirby Doyle A taste of Blake among the New American Poets Simon Pettet and his poems and the problems of next generation NY Schoolers Silver Standards of Justin Sirois and the 374 staples per book it requires Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) Jack Kerouac and Book of Sketches ? a major work arrives sans editing James L. Weil Another Last Poem Visions of Kerouac ? Clark Coolidge as literary critic Blog comments are back Sylvester Pollet and Backwoods Broadsides reach a conclusion Language Is by John Phillips a new moment is post-Projectivist post-Objectivist poetry? Mid-American Chants by Sherwood Anderson Writing as the personal never applied http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com Mon Aug 14 17:06:20 2006 From: editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com (editor at eratiopostmodernpoetry.com) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:06:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another Poe Film Message-ID: <200608142106.k7EL6KTx028580@mail24.atl.registeredsite.com> . DEATH OF POE film sets fest premiere. Baltimore filmmaker Mark Redfield?s new feature THE DEATH OF POE, based on the final week in the life of Edgar Allan Poe, will receive its world premiere next month at the 17th edition of Britain?s longest-running horror movie event, the Festival of Fantastic Films. The fest, where Redfield?s version of DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE won the Best Independent Film prize four years ago, will be held in Manchester, England over the weekend of September 1-3, reports Fangoria.com. Poe?s final days are a mystery which has long intrigued horror scholars. He traveled from Richmond, Virginia to New York, but disappeared midway and was found, several days later, wandering around Baltimore, where he died on October 7, 1849. ?The picture is based entirely on the known facts surrounding his death,? Redfield tells Fangoria.com. ?As for the actual cause of his death [and the days that cannot be accounted for], screenwriter Stuart Voytilla and I chose the most likely theories and incorporated them. Historians will be glad to know that we avoided the ?rabies? theory! And don?t expect a typically staid biopic, either; Redfield confirms this will be a true genre experience. ?THE DEATH OF POE isn?t a biography,? he says. ?It?s a nightmarish postcard, if you will, of Poe?s last week on Earth. The picture plays very much as if Poe experienced the last week of his life in the final moments before he died and found peace. It has an uncanny sense about it, and people who have seen it come away liking Poe, and rethinking the popular conception that he was an out-of-control alcoholic. Bu?uel and Duchamp would?ve liked this picture, I believe!? As writer, director, producer and star of the film, Redfield must have learned a great deal about the author during its making. ?That's difficult to answer,? he says. ?One always assumes one ?knows Poe??until you reread him, read his letters and what others wrote about him. After the research and coming to understand our own film, and how it plays, my current view is perhaps a bit existentialist: that Poe was suicidal after his beloved Virginia?s death, and regardless of what the corporeal real world offered him, he had an artist?s compulsion to create, to the very end.? Of course, Poe?s own tales have been adapted numerous times for the screen, most notably by Roger Corman, but Redfield?s own personal favorite, when pressed, is an unusual one. ?The first film to spring to mind is the UPA cartoon of THE TELL-TALE HEART, narrated by James Mason and released in 1953. It captures the spirit of Poe?s writing beautifully. If you can find it, add it to your collection, and watch it before one of the Corman-Price movies!? For more on THE DEATH OF POE, check out the film?s official website. http://www.redfieldarts.com/DeathOfPoe.html This is not Sly's Poe. (Remember that one? I wonder what happened to it?) Happy summer, everybody, Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino http://thepostmodernromantic.blogspot.com/ http://eratio.blogspot.com/ . From HPETSLEK at aol.com Tue Aug 15 10:12:19 2006 From: HPETSLEK at aol.com (HPETSLEK at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:12:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Chaplin (poem) Message-ID: Rowan Atkinson tried his silent hand, others have mutely followed. What you had they never echoed, between a laugh and a tear. That most fragile part in us, you understood it without saying a word. Like a man without language you could feel everything. Your twitching face collecting all the expression of the world. -gary thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 15 11:47:32 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:47:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] You there! Drop that oboe! Message-ID: From: halvard at earthlink.net Subject: [crewrt-l] You there! Drop that oboe! Date: August 15, 2006 10:44:43 AM CDT To: cafe-blue at wiz.cath.vt.edu, crewrt-l at interversity.org Reply-To: crewrt-l at interversity.org August 15, 2006 TRAVEL Tighter Security Is Jeopardizing Orchestra Tours By DANIEL J. WAKIN Air travel for classical musicians has never been easy. Those husky cellos need an extra ticket. Hey, security! Watch that priceless Stradivarius. Double-reed players? They have long given up on carrying aboard those valuable knives and shaping tools used to mold the cane that transforms their breath into lyrical sounds. And now, with new concerns about carry-on baggage in the wake of Britain?s reported terrorist plot, it has gotten tougher. Strict regulations imposed last week forced the New York-based Orchestra of St. Luke?s to cancel a long-awaited tour of Britain over the weekend and sent other ensembles with imminent trips, including the Philadelphia Orchestra, the Pittsburgh Symphony and the Minnesota Orchestra, scrambling to cope with the new rules. ?I?m heartbroken,? Marianne C. Lockwood, the president and executive director of the St. Luke?s orchestra, said yesterday. ?I don?t think I?ve been through 72 more anguished hours in my life.? The orchestra was to have left last Thursday for concerts at the Edinburgh International Festival and the BBC Proms at the Royal Albert Hall in London, one of the major summer music festivals. All travelers in Britain had to adapt to the ban on carry-on items, which was relaxed yesterday to allow one small carry-on. But not all travelers ply their trade with highly personal artifacts made of centuries-old wood, horsehair and precious metals that many musicians are loath to put in the hold. Its rules are of course in flux. The United States Transportation Security Administration says on its Web site that musical instruments are generally allowed in the cabin in addition to a carry-on bag and a personal item, but it leaves size requirements and permission for the carry-on to the airlines. In addition, it promises that security personnel will handle instruments carefully. That is of little comfort to musicians, particularly string players, who suffer constant anxiety over the threat of damage and fears that their instruments will arbitrarily not be allowed in the cabin, even though violins fit into most overhead bins. The violin virtuoso and conductor Pinchas Zukerman said security officials had even asked him to remove the strings of his 1742 Guarneri del G?su. ?I?ve had unbelievable discussions at certain airports,? he said by telephone while waiting at the Atlanta airport for a flight with his wife, the cellist Amanda Forsyth. ?They want to stick their hands in my instruments, and they say, ?It?s my job.? ? Cellists have it the worst, Ms. Forsyth said. ?We buy the seat with a cello, and they treat us like second-class criminals.? The new regulations have, for now, increased the complications. The Bolshoi opera and ballet, which have been performing at the Royal Opera House in London, will send their orchestra?s instruments back to Moscow by ferry and truck at the end of the week if the restrictions are not relaxed, said Faith Wilson, a spokeswoman for the Bolshoi?s promoter at the house, Victor Hochhauser Presents. The Bolshoi orchestra?s chief conductor, Alexander Vedernikov, had been quoted as saying that the musicians? contract requires them to keep their instruments with them. ?Clearly this is a very unusual situation,? Ms. Wilson said. ?I?m sure there are insurance issues, but I don?t think anybody?s ever had to cope with the security restrictions that we?re up against.? The Minnesota Orchestra is due to leave on Sunday for a European tour that also includes stops in Edinburgh and at the Proms. Like many major orchestras, it packs its instruments in specially designed and padded crates. The biggest ones, which hold harps and double basses, are six and a half feet high and four feet wide. About 20 players in the 95-member ensemble like to take their instruments or precious bows on board, but they will stow them this time around, said a spokeswoman, Gwen Pappas. The trunks are delivered straight to concert halls, so the instruments will not be immediately available for players who want to practice at their hotels. The Philadelphia Orchestra plays the Proms in early September. Its trunks also have space for all the members? instruments, but it is working on backup plans for about a dozen musicians who are going on to other jobs or on vacation and not returning with the orchestra, said a spokeswoman, Katherine Blodgett. Those concerts, coming later, give the orchestras time to prepare. And these are large, experienced touring groups that own the crates. Not so the Orchestra of St. Luke?s, a highly regarded ensemble that nevertheless tours infrequently and saw the trip as a boost for its image. It spent two years planning the trip and many months carefully polishing the programs, which were to have been broadcast in the United States. The trip had special significance for the orchestra?s principal conductor, Donald Runnicles, who is Scottish, and for its president, Ms. Lockwood, who was born in England. Ms. Lockwood described three days of phone calls, fueled by takeout Chinese food, to find alternatives. The musicians had planned to carry their smaller instruments by hand. Charter planes were too expensive: about $300,000, which would have doubled the cost of the tour. The orchestra scoured larger orchestras from Philadelphia to Boston to borrow trunks. All were in use. St. Luke?s considered flying the musicians to Paris, having them take a train to London and having the instruments trucked in, but there would not have been time to make a Tuesday rehearsal. Then someone from Edinburgh called Saturday to offer the loan of instruments. In the end, none of the efforts mattered. British Airways canceled the flight that day at 5 p.m. ===== Hal "The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." --Casey Stengel Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 15 13:33:04 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:33:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] my pOm Message-ID: <014101c6c090$dd5533d0$5a8e3052@ANNY> I have my doubts on the quality of my pOm, but please see the introduction: New on PFS Post (http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com): --a Wordsworthian, "mystical", three part mini-epic from Anny Ballardini, who resides in Italy... also, new work from Andrew Lundwall, Tammy Armstrong, Jesus Erminy, a Q & A with Noam Chomsky, lots, lots more. Check out new poems, miscellany at http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com. Respond to this e-mail! Buy my new CD "Virtual Pinball/Madame Psychosis"!!! Adam Fieled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 15 18:04:43 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:04:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet and the Lawyer: The Example of Wallace Stevens Message-ID: <3af.6bf6c08.32139efb@aol.com> 11th Annual ?Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash? Saturday October 7th, 2006, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford, CT Reception begins at 6:30 P.M. Featured Speaker: Lawrence Joseph, ?The Poet and the Lawyer: The Example of Wallace Stevens? Lawrence Joseph was born in Detroit in 1948. He attended the University of Michigan, where he received the Hopwood Award for poetry; Magdalene College, Cambridge University, where he read English; and the University of Michigan Law School. He is the author of five books of poems, including Into It (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2005) and Codes, Precepts, Biases, and Taboos: Poems 1973-1993 (FSG, 2005). He is also the author of Lawyerland (FSG, 1997), a book of prose, which is being developed into a film by John Malkovich. His poems, essays and critical writings have appeared widely in publications in the United States and internationally. He has received two NEA poetry fellowships, a Guggenheim fellowship, and is the third recipient of the New York County Lawyers Association's "Law and Literature Award." A distinguished scholar in labor and employment law, tort and compensation law, and legal theory, he is the Tinnelly Professor of Law at St. John's University School of Law. Married to the painter Nancy Van Goethem, he lives in downtown Manhattan. After Program: Birthday Cake and Champagne! Ticket: $30 per person; send check payable to: Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT 06103. Or call to reserve tickets at the door: 860-695-6350. Presented by The Friends and Enemies of Wallace Stevens and the Connecticut Center for the Book, a program of the Hartford Public Library. For more information, contact James Finnegan, 860-508-2810 _jforjames at aol.com_ (mailto:jforjames at aol.com) (Lawrence Joseph's photo available upon request) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 16 05:58:03 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:58:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet and the Lawyer: The Example of Wallace Stevens References: <3af.6bf6c08.32139efb@aol.com> Message-ID: <002901c6c11a$771c1f40$6cac3452@ANNY> Congratulations for this incredible event, how much would I like to be there... Best wishes, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Poet and the Lawyer: The Example of Wallace Stevens 11th Annual ?Wallace Stevens Birthday Bash? Saturday October 7th, 2006, 6:30 P.M. Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford, CT Reception begins at 6:30 P.M. Featured Speaker: Lawrence Joseph, ?The Poet and the Lawyer: The Example of Wallace Stevens? Lawrence Joseph was born in Detroit in 1948. He attended the University of Michigan, where he received the Hopwood Award for poetry; Magdalene College, Cambridge University, where he read English; and the University of Michigan Law School. He is the author of five books of poems, including Into It (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2005) and Codes, Precepts, Biases, and Taboos: Poems 1973-1993 (FSG, 2005). He is also the author of Lawyerland (FSG, 1997), a book of prose, which is being developed into a film by John Malkovich. His poems, essays and critical writings have appeared widely in publications in the United States and internationally. He has received two NEA poetry fellowships, a Guggenheim fellowship, and is the third recipient of the New York County Lawyers Association's "Law and Literature Award." A distinguished scholar in labor and employment law, tort and compensation law, and legal theory, he is the Tinnelly Professor of Law at St. John's University School of Law. Married to the painter Nancy Van Goethem, he lives in downtown Manhattan. After Program: Birthday Cake and Champagne! Ticket: $30 per person; send check payable to: Hartford Public Library, 500 Main Street, Hartford CT 06103. Or call to reserve tickets at the door: 860-695-6350. Presented by The Friends and Enemies of Wallace Stevens and the Connecticut Center for the Book, a program of the Hartford Public Library. For more information, contact James Finnegan, 860-508-2810 jforjames at aol.com (Lawrence Joseph's photo available upon request) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 16 19:09:38 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:09:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] THE ODE LESS TRAVELLED Message-ID: _http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2006/8/13/lifebookshelf/14829 810&sec=lifebookshelf_ (http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2006/8/13/lifebookshelf/14829810&sec=lifebookshelf) Fry and Frost Review by LEE TSE LING THE ODE LESS TRAVELLED Unlocking the Poet Within By Stephen Fry Publisher: Hutchinson, 357 pages (ISBN: 0-091-79661-X) I HAVE a dark and dreadful secret. I write poetry. This is an embarrassing confession for an adult to make,? says Stephen Fry in the foreword of The Ode Less Travelled. Well, maybe it would be if you wrote gosh-awful pap on a regular basis and published it on a blog. But the e-quivalent of boos, hisses and flung fruit aside, how would you know if it really was bad? Start by reading Fry?s latest bit of non-fiction, for within its pages awaits enlightenment. Enter, if you dare, the fantastic world of prosody, otherwise known as the principles of verse. In its four sections, metre, rhyme, form and diction rule, and such exotic beasts as the Iamb and Spondee, the Antispast (not an Italian hors d?oeuvre), Dactyl (nor winged terror), and the Molussus of Odes abound. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 17 03:47:11 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:47:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Powells.com Specials: Visit Portland on Us! Message-ID: <004401c6c1d1$5983e6e0$65a93252@ANNY> Browse Sections Bestsellers New Arrivals Sale eBooks Gift Cards contest ends August 31, 2006 click here for the official rules Enter now to win a trip for two to Portland, Oregon, including airfare, hotel accommodations, several great meals, and a shopping spree at the legendary independent that occupies an entire city block, "considered by many to be the best bookstore in the United States" (Slate). All you have to do is to try our free newsletter, PowellsBooks.news. (Only one edition - if you don't like it, simply unsubscribe.) Already a subscriber? No problem - you are still eligible to enter. Round-trip airfare for two One lucky contest winner will be awarded two round-trip airline tickets to Portland, Oregon, from the major North American airport closest to his or her place of residence. See official rules for details. Three-night stay at downtown's luxurious Heathman Hotel Named one of the "World's Best Places to Stay" by Cond? 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Discover the thriving arts scene of the Pearl District and the natural wonder of the scenic Columbia Gorge as well as limitless opportunities for fun and adventure. a.. More about Insiders' Guide to Portland, Oregon THE FINE PRINT Does anyone actually read the fine print? Are you reading this right now - and if so, for heaven's sakes, why? What are you expecting to discover that you don't already know? Perhaps you distrust us. Perchance you think we're going to slip something in right under the skin - something dark, something nefarious, something possibly not of this world - when you're not looking, when you're blindly trusting, when you're most vulnerable and exposed. Heaven forfend! The thought hasn't even occurred to us. You can and should trust us implicitly, and everyone else as well, and that is precisely why one ought never to read the fine print. But thank you for reading anyway, as it gives our Fine Print Writer something to do (that's actually her only job, poor thing). Powell's Books. Contents will settle, eventually. You are currently subscribed to specials as: anny.ballardini at tin.it To unsubscribe or to manage your subscription, go to: https://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/newsletters/list_manager?email=anny.ballardini at tin.it or send an email with the word "REMOVE" in the subject to leave-specials-946497V at zoot.powells.com Copyright ? 2006 Powells.com. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 17 10:07:39 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:07:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Bachiana" Message-ID: <91C9871F-146B-406B-A68B-6E5264C09288@earthlink.net> Bachiana Europe within, a have-based father, though more from local to treasury once. At visual three, who knows? Punctuated quite, that reading. Critical as any which. Whose forebears spoke of ?hearing some Book,? and yet resisted its subjectivity. Sociolinguistics, sculpted alive. Scores and manuscripts with some poetry in them, lying about everywhere, everything. Harmonious inventions springing from grandmother?s tonguebook. Conference calls of the imagination. Catch-can phrases breed feudal elaborations and exonerations, images on and off now. Overarching themes putting rather some good in. Previous expressions fund holiness. Articulate relationships trump first-person narratives, not the first to spurn Hovercraft values. On his nexus night, proud values seek absolution. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 17 12:26:54 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:26:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Balaban Message-ID: I'm back at my NewPo desk after a no-mail summer. What have I been reading while on my summer vacation? Well, one book that's grabbed me is John Balaban's new collection, *Path, Crooked Path*. Van Gogh translated from the Bulgarian with the author, Lyubomir Nikolov Well, he lived among us and hated winters. He moved to Arles where summer and blue jays obliged him to cut off his ear. Oh, they all said it was a whore but Rachel was innocent. When cypresses went for a walk in the prison yard he went along and sketched them. His suns surpassed God's. He spelled out the Gospel for miners and their potatoes stuck in his throat. Yes, he was a priest in sackcloth, who hoped that one day humans would learn to walk. He willed mankind his shoes. John Balaban. *Path, Crooked Path*. Copper Canyon Press, 2006. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Aug 17 07:51:08 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:51:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets Message-ID: For those of you interested in rare or nearly extinct species of literary animal, you might want to check out a new anthology called The Conservative Poets: A Contemporary Anthology, edited by William Baer, the editor of the late The Formalist, and just published by the U. Of Evansville Press. Here's the link to Amazon below: http://www.amazon.com/b/002-1856725-5970410?ie=UTF8&node=283155 From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 17 15:22:50 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:22:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets References: Message-ID: <004601c6c232$87ea9950$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> You in it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Lake" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets > For those of you interested in rare or nearly extinct species of literary > animal, you might want to check out a new anthology called The > Conservative > Poets: A Contemporary Anthology, edited by William Baer, the editor of the > late The Formalist, and just published by the U. Of Evansville Press. > > Here's the link to Amazon below: > > > http://www.amazon.com/b/002-1856725-5970410?ie=UTF8&node=283155 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 17 15:28:12 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:28:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets References: Message-ID: <00f501c6c233$47969790$65a93252@ANNY> I looked it up but I cannot find it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Lake" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets > For those of you interested in rare or nearly extinct species of literary > animal, you might want to check out a new anthology called The > Conservative > Poets: A Contemporary Anthology, edited by William Baer, the editor of the > late The Formalist, and just published by the U. Of Evansville Press. > > Here's the link to Amazon below: > > > http://www.amazon.com/b/002-1856725-5970410?ie=UTF8&node=283155 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Aug 17 08:25:32 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:25:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: <004601c6c232$87ea9950$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 8/17/06 2:22 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > You in it? Yes, Tad, I'm one of the 12. From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Aug 17 08:27:16 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:27:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: <004601c6c232$87ea9950$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 8/17/06 2:22 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > You in it? I just tried the link and it takes one to the Books section of Amazon, but not the anthology. Just type in the name (The Conservative Poets: A Contemporary Anthology) and you'll get there. Paul From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Aug 17 08:28:17 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:28:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: <00f501c6c233$47969790$65a93252@ANNY> Message-ID: On 8/17/06 2:28 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > I looked it up but I cannot find it. Anny, just type in the full title and it should pop up. From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 17 15:37:36 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:37:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I dunno, Paul, maybe we shouldn't be encouraging this kind of thing. Conservative poets coming back from near extinction? Gee, next thing you know they'll name a conservative as head of the N.E.A. No telling what that might lead to. . . . Eventually, why, conservatives might even come to control the Presidency, both houses of Congress, even perhaps a major cable network. But congratulations on the anthology! On 8/17/06 6:51 AM, "Paul Lake" wrote: > For those of you interested in rare or nearly extinct species of literary > animal, you might want to check out a new anthology called The Conservative > Poets: A Contemporary Anthology, edited by William Baer, the editor of the > late The Formalist, and just published by the U. Of Evansville Press. > > Here's the link to Amazon below: > > > http://www.amazon.com/b/002-1856725-5970410?ie=UTF8&node=283155 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Aug 17 08:55:34 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:55:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/17/06 2:37 PM, "David Graham" wrote: > Eventually, why, conservatives might even come to > control the Presidency, both houses of Congress, even perhaps a major cable > network. Heck, David, I wasn't even aware how much influence the Presidency, both houses of Congress, and the major networks wielded in the poetry world. If they'd been editing magazines and books and shaping the course of literature over these last few years, I must have missed it. Maybe if I got out more . . . From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 17 16:00:52 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:00:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets References: Message-ID: <012c01c6c237$d7c883b0$65a93252@ANNY> I got it! It is the last copy (more to arrive), and congratulations, I rarely buy new books. When Mary de Rachewiltz saw that my Discretions was a used copy she bursted out: No wonder editors make no profits nowadays! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Lake" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets > On 8/17/06 2:28 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > >> I looked it up but I cannot find it. > Anny, just type in the full title and it should pop up. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From hawkbrwn at msn.com Thu Aug 17 17:00:17 2006 From: hawkbrwn at msn.com (Elaine Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:00:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congratulations on your inclusion in the anthology, Paul! On 8/17/06 7:51 AM, "Paul Lake" wrote: > For those of you interested in rare or nearly extinct species of literary > animal, you might want to check out a new anthology called The Conservative > Poets: A Contemporary Anthology, edited by William Baer, the editor of the > late The Formalist, and just published by the U. Of Evansville Press. > > Here's the link to Amazon below: > > > http://www.amazon.com/b/002-1856725-5970410?ie=UTF8&node=283155 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 17 17:43:15 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:43:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2006 3:28:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: I'm one of the 12. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Conservative Party? Who are the other members of this retrograde-renegade dozen? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 17 18:04:20 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:04:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets References: Message-ID: <000801c6c249$17b58110$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Congratulations. And Anny, it's there -- I found it with no trouble. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Lake" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets > On 8/17/06 2:22 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > >> You in it? > > Yes, Tad, I'm one of the 12. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 17 21:59:03 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:59:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 18-27 August 2006 Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2006 8:45:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, airplay at YOUR.ABC.NET.AU writes: ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter 18 - 27 August 2006 POETICA 19/8/2006 15:00 24/8/2006 21:00 (repeat) POETRY AND JAZZ URL: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/poetica/stories/2006/1689721.htm This hip edition of PoeticA features 'Jazzoetry' by The Last Poets - original recordings of Jack Kerouac, Philip Larken's critical writings about jazz, and the poems of Hayden Curruth, Geoff Page and Lynn Hard - with of course a lot of good jazz. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 10:16:12 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:16:12 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Yeats, Bircumshaw, Sphinx In-Reply-To: <7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <200608021600.k72G0574021082@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <2808.17.255.241.130.1154547222.squirrel@pop3a.icubed.com> <7c0a01c6bd61$7c298110$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <7c5201c6bd75$67654070$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: This has been nibbling at me for a while. Why should DB warn you off GB? Curious. In the meantime, I bring you news of the Phillipino Judge and the Mystic Dwarves. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5261856.stm No mention of dwarf throwing. RD On 8/11/06, Robin wrote: > and I mentioned Crowley, dave warned me off. > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Aug 18 07:18:30 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 06:18:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: <012c01c6c237$d7c883b0$65a93252@ANNY> Message-ID: On 8/17/06 3:00 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > I got it! It is the last copy (more to arrive), and congratulations, I > rarely buy new books. When Mary de Rachewiltz saw that my Discretions was a > used copy she bursted out: No wonder editors make no profits nowadays! Thanks, Anny. Hope you enjoy the poetry. Personally, I liked the work of Robert Crawford, Carrie Jerrell, and David Middleton a good deal. Paul From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Aug 18 07:19:07 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 06:19:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/17/06 4:00 PM, "Elaine Brown" wrote: > Congratulations on your inclusion in the anthology, Paul! Thanks, Elain. From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Aug 18 07:21:28 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 06:21:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/17/06 4:43 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 8/17/2006 3:28:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: >> I'm one of the 12. >> > Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Conservative Party? > Who are the other members of this retrograde-renegade dozen? > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > No, Jim, I don?t belong to any party these days. I?m a registered Independent. The other members of this dirty dozen are Marion Montgomery, Robert Beum, Frederick Turner, William Baer, Bryce Chistensen, A. M. Juster, Joseph Bottum, Ralph McInern, Catherine Savage Brosman, Joseph Salemi, David Middleton, Anthony Lombardy, Samueal Maio, Robert Crawford, Carried Jerrell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 18 15:42:52 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:42:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets References: Message-ID: <008d01c6c2fe$7ee38700$4daa3852@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] The Conservative PoetsIs this the right one (Marion Montogomery): http://www.mmihouston.com/ and I apologize for that previous (bursted) I don't know where my head is sometimes, ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets On 8/17/06 4:43 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: In a message dated 8/17/2006 3:28:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: I'm one of the 12. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Conservative Party? Who are the other members of this retrograde-renegade dozen? Finnegan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry No, Jim, I don't belong to any party these days. I'm a registered Independent. The other members of this dirty dozen are Marion Montgomery, Robert Beum, Frederick Turner, William Baer, Bryce Chistensen, A. M. Juster, Joseph Bottum, Ralph McInern, Catherine Savage Brosman, Joseph Salemi, David Middleton, Anthony Lombardy, Samueal Maio, Robert Crawford, Carried Jerrell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Aug 19 12:37:03 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:37:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Request for submissions: a Big Bridge mini-anthology Message-ID: <549DE3FA-6F61-4205-B938-87C53E4A2FB5@earthlink.net> Friends and neighbors-- For a mini-anthology of poems inspired by/responding to/related to Allen Ginsberg's poem "Death on All Fronts" and/or the various wars/insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please send 1-6 poems to me at halvard at earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge" followed by your own name in the subject line. Unidentified submissions may be lost or discarded--advertantly or inadvertantly. The poems submitted may be either previously published or unpublished and brand-new. We cannot, though, seek or pay for reprint permissions from publishers. This mini-anthology (approx. 30 poems) will appear in the January issue of Big Bridge, and submissions of work will be accepted until the end of November. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org Death on All Fronts "The Planet is Finished" A new moon looks down on our sick sweet planet Orion's chased the Immovable Bear halfway across the sky from winter to winter. I wake, earlier in bed, fly corpses cover gas lit sheets, my head aches, left temple brain fibre throbbing for Death I created on all Fronts. Poisoned rats in the Chickenhouse and myriad lice Sprayed with white arsenics filtering to the brook, City Cockroaches stomped on Country kitchen floors. No babies for me. Cut earth boy & girl hordes by half & breathe free say Revolutionary expert Computers: Half the blue globe's germ population's more than enough keep the cloudy lung from stinking pneumonia. I called in the Exterminator Who soaked the Wall floor with bed-bug death-oil. Who'll soak my brain with death-oil? I wake before dawn dreading my wooden possessions, my gnostic books, my loud mouth, old loves silent, charms turned to image money, my body sexless fat, Father dying, Earth Cities poisoned at war, my art hopeless -- Mind fragmented--and still abstract--Pain in left temple living death -- Sept. 26, 1969 --Allen Ginsberg fr. The Fall of America: poems of these states -- 1965-1971 [San Francisco: City Lights, 1972] Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 19 12:57:57 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:57:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Albert Goldbarth Message-ID: Suitcase Song John-O was given a key to the apartment. The deal was this: if Phil died suddenly, and John-O heard, he would rush on over, enter the apartment, leave unseen with Phil's brown suitcase, and secretly pitch it into the mounded deeps of the city dump. Simply, there were things that Phil didn't want to hurt his family with. Do you have yours? I have mine. The brown suitcase. Sasha's sister, on her death bed -- dinky, frail, just a mild skim milk trickle of a hospice patient- tensed, sat up, and unloosed such confessional invective that it seemed the walls and the sheets would have to be splattered in shit, her cancer having acted with the harsh, disbursing force of a tornado on the brown and hardshelled suitcase in her electrochemical memory webs. Is yours secure? from love? from sodium pentathol? Last year, when a tornado hit our fringe of downtown businesses, the air was alive for counties around with the downward dance of naked cancelled checks, handwritten notes, hotel receipts, e-mail transcripts, smeary Polaroids, a swirl of lacy underwisps that jellyfished the skies, and from The G-Spot Shoppe a rain of plastic pleasure aids, of which one prime example pierced a cow between the eyes and struck her dead. Maybe AIDS -- I wasn't sure. But he was dying, that was sure: as dry as a stick of human chalk, and making the terrible scritch-sound of a stick of chalk, in his throat, in the community air, in the room across from Sasha's sister. Something . . . hidden in the trace of run-down aura still around him as we chatted there one morning a tv? a sissyboy tv? I wasn't sure, but it was obvious his life-chalk held a story not yet written, not confessed yet for this storynivorous planet. And when I remembered my mother's own last days?the way a person is a narrative, the strength of which is either revelation or withholding. It was summer, and the garden at the nursing home was fat with summer's pleasures: flowered mounds like reefs of coral, bees as globular as whole yolks. In her room, my mother disappeared a breath at a time, and everything else was only a kind of scenery for that. The wink of pollen in the light. The birds. Their feather-lice. The bursting spores. Those opened-up cicada husks abandoned on the patio -- the small, brown, unlocked luggage that's completed its work in this world. --Albert Goldbarth. Saving Lives. Ohio State UP, 2001. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 20 08:43:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:43:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Albert Goldbarth References: Message-ID: <004001c6c456$3f0bfe60$26df3052@ANNY> Library This book saved my life. This book takes place on one of the two small tagalong moons of Mars. This book requests its author's absolution, centuries after his death. This book required two of the sultan's largest royal elephants to bear it; this other book fit in a gourd. This book reveals The Secret Name of God, and so its author is on a death list. This is the book I lifted high over my head, intending to smash a roach in my girlfriend's bedroom; instead, my back unsprung, and I toppled painfully into her bed, where I stayed motionless for eight days. This is a "book." That is, an audio cassette. This other "book" is a screen and a microchip. This other "book," the sky. In chapter three of this book, a woman tries explaining her husband's tragically humiliating death to their daughter: reading it is like walking through a wall of setting cement. This book taught me everything about sex. This book is plagiarized. This book is transparent; this book is a codex in Aztec; this book, written by a prisoner, in dung; the wind is turning the leaves of this book: a hill-top olive as thick as a Russian novel. This book is a vivisected frog, and ova its text. This book was dictated by Al-M?llikah, the Planetary Spirit of the Seventh Realm, to his intermediary on Earth (the Nineteenth Realm), who published it, first in mimeograph, and many editions later in gold- stamped leather. This book taught me everything wrong about sex. This book poured its colors into my childhood so strongly, they remain a dye in my imagination today. This book is by a poet who makes me sick. This is the first book in the world. This is a photograph from Viet Nam, titled "Buddhist nuns copying scholarly Buddhist texts in the pagoda." This book smells like salami. This book is continued in volume two. He was driving ? evidently by some elusive, interior radar, since he was busy reading a book propped on the steering wheel. This book picks on men. This is the split Red Sea: two heavy pages. In this book I underlined deimos, cabochon, pelagic, hegira. I wanted to use them. This book poured its bile into my childhood. This book defames women. This book was smuggled into the country one page at a time, in tiny pill containers, in hatbands, in the cracks of asses; sixty people risked their lives repeatedly over this one book. This book is nuts!!! This book cost more than a seven-story chalet in the Tall Oaks subdivision. This book ? I don't remember. This book is a hoax, and a damnable lie. This chapbook was set in type and printed by hand, by Larry Levis's then- wife, the poet Marcia Southwick, in 1975. It's 1997 now and Larry's dead ? too early, way too early ? and this elliptical, heartbreaking poem (which is, in part, exactly about too early death) keeps speaking to me from its teal-green cover: the way they say the nails and the hair continue to grow in the grave. This book is two wings and a thorax the size of a sunflower seed. This book gave me a hard-on. This book is somewhere under those other books way over there. This book deflected a bullet. This book provided a vow I took. If they knew you owned this book, they'd come and get you; it wouldn't be pretty. This book is a mask: its author isn't anything like it. This book is by William Matthews, a wonderful poet, who died today, age 55. Now Larry Levis has someone he can talk to. This book is an "airplane book" (but not about airplanes; mean to be read on an airplane; also, available every three steps in the airport). What does it mean, to "bust" a "block"? This is the book I pretended to read one day in the Perry-Casta?eda Library browsing room, but really I was rapt in covert appreciation of someone in a slinky skirt that clung like kitchen plasticwrap. She squiggled near, and pointed to the book. "It's upside-down," she said. For the rest of the afternoon I was so flustered, that when I finally left the library... this is the book, with its strip of magnetic-code tape, that I absentmindedly walked with through the security arch on the first day of its installation, becoming the first (though unintentional) lightfingered lifter of books to trigger the Perry-Casta?eda alarm, which hadn't been fine-tuned as yet, and sounded even louder than the sirens I remember from grade school air raid drills, when the principal had us duck beneath our desks and cover our heads ? as if gabled ? with a book. The chemical formulae for photosynthesis: this book taught me that. And this book taught me what a "merkin" is. The cover of this book is fashioned from the tanned skin of a favorite slave. This book is inside a computer now. This "book" is made of knotted string; and this, of stone; and this, the gut of a sheep. This book existed in a dream of mine, and only there. This book is a talk-show paperback with shiny gold raised lettering on the cover. (Needless to say, not one by me.) This is a book of prohibitions; this other, a book of rowdy license. They serve equally to focus the prevalent chaos of our lives. This book is guarded around the clock by men in navy serge and golden braiding, carrying very capable guns. This is the book that destroyed a marriage. Take it, burn it, before it costs us more. This book is an intercom for God. This book I slammed against a wall. My niece wrote this book in crayon and glitter. This is the book (in a later paperback version) by which they recognized the sea-bleached, battered, and otherwise-unidentifiable body of Shelley. Shit: I forgot to send in the card, and now the Book Club has billed me twice for Synopses of 400 Little-Known Operas. This book is filled with sheep and rabbits, calmly promenading in their tartan vests and bowties, with their clay pipes, in their Easter Sunday salad-like hats. The hills are gently rounded. The sun is a clear firm yolk. The world will never be this sweetly welcoming again. This book is studded with gems that have the liquid depth of aperitifs. This book, 1,000 Wild Nights, is actually wired to give an electr/ YOWCH! This book I stole from Cornell University's Olin Library in the spring of 1976. Presumably, its meter's still running. Presumably, it still longs for its Dewey'd place in the dim-lit stacks. This book has a bookplate reminding me, in Latin, to use my scant time well. It's the last day of the semester. My students are waiting to sell their textbooks back to the campus store, like crazed racehorses barely restrained at the starting gate. This book caused a howl / a stir / a ruckus / an uproar. This book became a movie; they quickly raised the cover price. This book is the Key to the Mysteries. This book has a bookplate: a man and a woman have pretzeled themselves into one lubricious shape. This book came apart in my hands. This book is austere; it's like holding a block of dry ice. This Bible is in Swahili. This book contains seemingly endless pages of calculus ? it may as well be in Swahili. This is the book I pretended to read while Ellen's lushly naked body darkened into sleep beside me. And this is the book I pretended to read in a waiting room, once, as a cardiac specialist razored into my father's chest. And THIS book I pretended having read once, when I interviewed for a teaching position: "Oh yes," I said, "of course," and spewed a stream of my justly famous golden bullshit into the conference room. This book was signed by the author fifteen minutes before she died. This is Erhard Ratdolf's edition of Johann Regiomontanus's astronomical and astrological calendar (1476) ? it contains "the first true title-page." She snatched this book from a garbage can, just as Time was about to swallow it out of the visible world irrevocably. To this day, her grandchildren read it. This book: braille. This one: handmade paper, with threads of the poet's own bathrobe as part of the book's rag content. This one: the cover is hollowed glass, with a goldfish swimming around the title. This is my MFA thesis. Its title is Goldbarth's MFA Thesis. This is the cookbook used by Madame Curie. It still faintly glows, seven decades later. This book is the shame of an entire nation. This book is one of fourteen matching volumes, like a dress parade. This is the book I'm writing now. It's my best! (But where should I send it?) This book doesn't do anyth / oh wow, check THIS out! This is the book I bought for my nephew, 101 Small Physics Experiments. Later he exchanged it for The Book of Twerps and Other Pukey Things, and who could blame him? This book is completely marred by the handiwork of the Druckfehlerteufel ? "the imp who supplies the misprints." This book has a kind of aurora-like glory radiating from it. There should be versions of uranium detectors that register glory-units from books. We argued over this book in the days of the divorce. I kept it, she kept the stained glass window from Mike and Mimi. Yes, he was supposed to be on the 7:05 to Amsterdam. But he stayed at home, to finish this whodunit. And so he didn't crash. This book has a browned corsage pressed in it. I picked up both for a dime at the Goodwill. "A diet of berries, vinegar, and goat's milk" will eventually not only cure your cancer, but will allow a man to become impregnated (diagrams explain this) ? also, there's serious philosophy about Jews who control "the World Order," in this book. This book reads from right to left. This book comes with a small wooden top attached by a saffron ribbon. This book makes the sound of a lion, a train, or a cuckoo clock, depending on where you press its cover. I've always admired this title from 1481: The Myrrour of the Worlde. This book is from the 1950s; the jacket says it's "a doozie." This book is by me. I found it squealing piteously, poor piglet, in the back of a remainders bin. I took it home and nursed it. This book let me adventure with the Interplanetary Police. I threw myself, an aspirant, against the difficult theories this book propounded, until my spirit was bruised. I wasn't any smarter ? just bruised. This book is magic. There's more inside it than outside. This is the copy of the Iliad that Alexander the Great took with him, always, on his expeditions ? "in," Thoreau says, "a precious casket." Help! (thump) I've been stuck in this book all week and I don't know how to get out! (thump) This is the book of poetry I read from at my wedding to Morgan. We were divorced. The book (Fred Chappell's River) is still on my shelf, like an admonishment. This book is stapled (they're rusted by now); this book, bound in buttery leather; this book's pages are chemically-treated leaves; this book, the size of a peanut, is still complete with indicia and an illustrated colophon page. So tell me: out of what grim institution for the taste-deprived and the sensibility-challenged do they find the cover artists for these books? This book I tried to carry balanced on my head with seven others. This book I actually licked. This book ? remember? I carved a large hole in its pages, a "how-to magazine for boys" said this would be a foolproof place to hide my secret treasures. Then I remembered I didn't have any secret treasures worth hiding. Plus, I was down one book. This book is nothing but jackal crap; unfortunately, its royalties have paid for two Rolls-Royces and a mansion in the south of France. This book is said to have floated off the altar of the church, across the village square, and into the hut of a peasant woman in painful labor. This is what he was reading when he died. The jacket copy says it's "a real page-turner ? you can't put it down!" I'm going to assume he's in another world now, completing the story. This book hangs by a string in an outhouse, and every day it gets thinner. This book teaches you how to knit a carrying case for your rosary; this one, how to build a small but lethal incendiary device. This book has pop-up pages with moveable parts, intended to look like the factory room where pop-up books with moveable parts are made. If you don't return that book I loaned you, I'm going to smash your face. This book says the famously saintly woman was really a ringtailed trash- mouth dirty-down bitch queen. Everyone's reading it! There are stains in this book that carry a narrative greater than its text. The Case of _______. How to _______. Books books books. I know great petulant stormy swatches and peaceful lulls of this book by heart. I was so excited, so jazzed up! ? but shortly thereafter they found me asleep, over pages six and seven of this soporific book. (I won't say by who.) And on her way back to her seat, she fell (the multiple sclerosis) and refused all offered assistance. Instead, she used her book she'd been reading from, as a prop, and worked herself pridefully back up to a standing position. They gave me this book for free at the airport. Its cover features an Indian god with the massive head of an elephant, as brightly blue as a druid, flinging flowers into the air and looking unsurpassably wise. My parents found this book in my bottom drawer, and spanked the living hell into my butt. This book of yours, you tell me, was optioned by Hollywood for eighty- five impossibajillion dollars? Oh. Congratulations. They lowered the esteemed and highly-published professor into his grave. A lot of silent weeping. A lot of elegiac rhetoric. And one man shaking his head in the chill December wind dumbfoundedly, who said, "And he perished anyway." Although my 8th grade English teacher, Mrs. Hurd, always said "Whenever you open a book, remember: that author lives again." After this book, there was no turning back. Around 1000 A.D., when the Magyars were being converted over to Christianity, Magyar children were forced to attend school for the first time in their cultural history: "therefore the Magyar word konyv means tears as well as book." This book, from when I was five, its fuzzy ducklings, and my mother's voice in the living room of the second-story apartment over the butcher shop on Division Street.... I'm fifty now. I've sought out, and I own now, one near-mint and two loose, yellowing copies that mean to me as much as the decorated gold masks and the torsos of marble meant to the excavators of Troy. This book is done. This book gave me a paper cut. This book set its mouth on my heart, and sucked a mottled tangle of blood to the surface. I open this book and smoke pours out, I open this book and a bad sleet slices my face, I open this book: brass knuckles, I open this book: the spiky scent of curry, I open this book and hands grab forcefully onto my hair as if in violent sex, I open this book: the wingbeat of a seraph, I open this book: the edgy cat-pain wailing of the damned thrusts up in a column as sturdy around as a giant redwood, I open this book: the travel of light, I open this book and it's as damp as a wound, I open this book and I fall inside it farther than any physics, stickier than the jelly we scrape from cracked bones, cleaner than what we tell our children in the dark when they're afraid to close their eyes at night. And this book can't be written yet: its author isn't born yet. This book is going to save the world. Albert Goldbarth Saving Lives Ohio State University Press Originally published in The Iowa Review Volume 29, Number 1 Spring 1999 From: David Graham Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:57 PM Suitcase Song John-O was given a key to the apartment. The deal was this: if Phil died suddenly, and John-O heard, he would rush on over, enter the apartment, leave unseen with Phil's brown suitcase, and secretly pitch it into the mounded deeps of the city dump. Simply, there were things that Phil didn't want to hurt his family with. Do you have yours? I have mine. The brown suitcase. Sasha's sister, on her death bed -- dinky, frail, just a mild skim milk trickle of a hospice patient- tensed, sat up, and unloosed such confessional invective that it seemed the walls and the sheets would have to be splattered in shit, her cancer having acted with the harsh, disbursing force of a tornado on the brown and hardshelled suitcase in her electrochemical memory webs. Is yours secure? from love? from sodium pentathol? Last year, when a tornado hit our fringe of downtown businesses, the air was alive for counties around with the downward dance of naked cancelled checks, handwritten notes, hotel receipts, e-mail transcripts, smeary Polaroids, a swirl of lacy underwisps that jellyfished the skies, and from The G-Spot Shoppe a rain of plastic pleasure aids, of which one prime example pierced a cow between the eyes and struck her dead. Maybe AIDS -- I wasn't sure. But he was dying, that was sure: as dry as a stick of human chalk, and making the terrible scritch-sound of a stick of chalk, in his throat, in the community air, in the room across from Sasha's sister. Something . . . hidden in the trace of run-down aura still around him as we chatted there one morning a tv? a sissyboy tv? I wasn't sure, but it was obvious his life-chalk held a story not yet written, not confessed yet for this storynivorous planet. And when I remembered my mother's own last days?the way a person is a narrative, the strength of which is either revelation or withholding. It was summer, and the garden at the nursing home was fat with summer's pleasures: flowered mounds like reefs of coral, bees as globular as whole yolks. In her room, my mother disappeared a breath at a time, and everything else was only a kind of scenery for that. The wink of pollen in the light. The birds. Their feather-lice. The bursting spores. Those opened-up cicada husks abandoned on the patio -- the small, brown, unlocked luggage that's completed its work in this world. --Albert Goldbarth. Saving Lives. Ohio State UP, 2001. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 20 10:27:29 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:27:29 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] quotation Message-ID: <00aa01c6c464$c44f1a90$26df3052@ANNY> The paradox of courage is that a man must be a little careless of his life even in order to keep it. Gilbert Chesterton (1874-1936) found on http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 20 11:07:59 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:07:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Holding Patterns read by Susan M. Schultz Message-ID: <00c301c6c46a$6d0724c0$26df3052@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: "wild honey press" To: Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: Holding Patterns read by Susan M. Schultz > As the first in a series of mp3 readings, I'm delighted to announce that > _Holding Patterns_ by Susan M. Schultz can be heard at > www.wildhoneypress.com > > Click on the link on the home page. Then either left click the link on the > next page to hear it or right click and choose "save target" to download > it. > > best > > Randolph > > PS Apologies if you receive this more than once. From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 11:29:46 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Get Your Final Summer Groove On -- Glassman, Femenella, Punschke In-Reply-To: <00c301c6c46a$6d0724c0$26df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <20060820152946.4941.qmail@web83107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MiPOesias Reading Series presents Scott Glassman, Sara Femenella, and Meghan Punschke 7:00 PM -- Friday, August 25th Stain Bar 766 Grand Street (L to Grand, 1 block west) Williamsburg, Brooklyn http://www.stainbar.com ______________________________________ Scott Glassman lives in South Jersey and works in the medical testing field. He is the author of the forthcoming chapbook Exertions (Cy Gist, 2006), and Surface Tension (Dusie Kollektiv, 2006) with Mackenzie Carignan. His poems have appeared in OCHO, Epicenter, CutBank, Coconut, eratio, and others. He also co-curates the INVERSE Reading Series in Philadelphia. Sara Femenella has just returned to Brooklyn after six months studying and writing in St. Petersburg, Russia. She is starting Columbia University in the fall as an MFA candidate in poetry. Meghan Punschke resides in New York City and is currently attending the New School for an MFA in Poetry. She is the host and curator of "Word of Mouth," a reading series in the West Village dedicated to poets and fiction writers. This September, she will be hosting the first poetry event to be included in the Harlem Arts Festival. Punschke's work has also appeared in Free Focus. ____________________________________ Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com Managing Editor -- http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Aug 21 09:33:55 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20060821133355.93169.qmail@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Remembering Carol Berge 16 links worth checking (from Nigerian poetry to Donald Hall to the work of John Tranter) Online interviews with poets on first books and much else (links to sites with over 300 interviews of poets) Depression and poetry The tender-tough poetry of CAConrad (Deviant Propulsion) When you hide the bio everything becomes a clue (on Thomas Pynchon) A volume of anonymous poetry The plastic poetry of Jessica Smith (the most ambitious book of 2006) Steve Reich at 70 and other notes Celery Flute a journal devoted to Kenneth Patchen Cinema and spirituality Travellers (sic) and Magicians Kirby Doyle A taste of Blake among the New American Poets Simon Pettet and his poems and the problems of next generation NY Schoolers Silver Standards of Justin Sirois and the 374 staples per book it requires Laugh1ng M1rrors Puk1ng: Stacy Doris reinvents the world A note on comments On turning 60 Philip K Dick & Shakespeare: The Simulacra Publishing Robert Grenier (100 Sentences / 100 Phrases) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Aug 21 05:09:11 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:09:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets In-Reply-To: <008d01c6c2fe$7ee38700$4daa3852@ANNY> Message-ID: Anny, The anthology is published by University of Evansville Press and edited by William Baer. There is a poet named Marion Montgomery in it, but the website I reached by hitting your link appears to be a different Marion Montgomery. Paul On 8/18/06 2:42 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Is this the right one (Marion Montogomery): > http://www.mmihouston.com/ > > and I apologize for that previous (bursted) > I don't know where my head is sometimes, > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Lake >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views >> >> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Conservative Poets >> >> On 8/17/06 4:43 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: >> >>> In a message dated 8/17/2006 3:28:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>> paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: >>>> I'm one of the 12. >>>> >>> Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Conservative Party? >>> Who are the other members of this retrograde-renegade dozen? >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> No, Jim, I don?t belong to any party these days. I?m a registered >> Independent. >> >> The other members of this dirty dozen are Marion Montgomery, Robert Beum, >> Frederick Turner, William Baer, Bryce Chistensen, A. M. Juster, Joseph >> Bottum, Ralph McInern, Catherine Savage Brosman, Joseph Salemi, David >> Middleton, Anthony Lombardy, Samueal Maio, Robert Crawford, Carried Jerrell. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Mon Aug 21 17:10:44 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] ON THE FLY - Review Copies Available In-Reply-To: <20060820152946.4941.qmail@web83107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060821211044.32395.qmail@web83113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you?re interested in receiving a review copy of my forthcoming chapbook, ?ON THE FLY? (Flux de Bouche), please backchannel your mailing address to me at amyhappens at yahoo.com Review copies will be mailed out next week. Thank you, Amy King http://www.amyking.org ?Not many are as scrupulous as King is in steering their poems through the meanders in which feeling and observation push and pull at each other... King is a lyric poet who can pack enormous surprises into concentrated doses... these poems contain single lines so capacious you almost want to stretch out in them and spend the night.? ?Barry Schwabsky ?Amy King?s poems think in association, evoking a world familiar but entirely unexpectable. Next to us all this turns and spins: under the veil of hum and drum is the paradise of possibility. This is a poetry of hope for a world shrouded by nearly and almost.? ?Charles Bernstein ON THE FLY Flux de Bouche Press (New York) First Edition - Chapbook 46 pages (7.50" x 7.50" - Perfect Bound) ? 2006 --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 21 17:20:34 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:20:34 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ON THE FLY - Review Copies Available References: <20060821211044.32395.qmail@web83113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <022301c6c567$a45b7b80$87c93a52@ANNY> Congratulations Amy, I am in awe in front of all the work you are able to carry out. Good wishes for: ON THE FLY Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: amy king To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] ON THE FLY - Review Copies Available If you're interested in receiving a review copy of my forthcoming chapbook, "ON THE FLY" (Flux de Bouche), please backchannel your mailing address to me at amyhappens at yahoo.com Review copies will be mailed out next week. Thank you, Amy King http://www.amyking.org "Not many are as scrupulous as King is in steering their poems through the meanders in which feeling and observation push and pull at each other... King is a lyric poet who can pack enormous surprises into concentrated doses... these poems contain single lines so capacious you almost want to stretch out in them and spend the night." -Barry Schwabsky "Amy King's poems think in association, evoking a world familiar but entirely unexpectable. Next to us all this turns and spins: under the veil of hum and drum is the paradise of possibility. This is a poetry of hope for a world shrouded by nearly and almost." -Charles Bernstein ON THE FLY Flux de Bouche Press (New York) First Edition - Chapbook 46 pages (7.50" x 7.50" - Perfect Bound) ? 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Aug 21 21:22:45 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:22:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology Message-ID: <65E34F15-E04D-44B8-B438-7461EF05FACD@ripon.edu> Moonology The shock of a contemporary seeing St. Jerome at his studies?reading, but not by moving his lips! Somewhere ? in his chest, in his skull? another mouth had to be moving! __________ There's a flower inside of the flower the bee doesn't know about until it's too late; an Earth inside of Earth, and we uncover its temple columns, weapons, scrapers, coins, and marvel as if this were Mars. And we've been told, and in our turn we've said, such urgently genuine things, such very extraordinary things!?and all the while, the mouth inside of the mouth, the mouth in the balls, or the mouth that gathers like a pollen on the fallopian tips, or the gulping sound in a bay of the brain where swamp has never dried out in all these millennia . . . a mouth like that says something different, private and pressed to its pillow. We think we see the "face" of the moon, there isn't any culture's folklore that says otherwise; but what if it faces the other direction, mouthing something dark to our understanding, against its dark place on the night? The voice in the belly. The sting in the conscience. The mouth in the chromosome. The chromosome in a mouth. The eyes in the fingertips. A lake in a lake, a sky in a sky. --Albert Goldbarth. Combinations of the Universe. Ohio State UP, 2003. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 22 10:09:22 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:09:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 'Virtual' poet Jackie Kay Message-ID: _http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5056201.html_ (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5056201.html) 'Virtual' poet Jackie keeps online diary SCOTS poet Jackie Kay is to be "virtual" poet-in-residence in the lead-up to National Poetry Day. The Poetry Society, which organises the day, has chosen the theme of 'identity'. Jackie will provide a regular online diary of her thoughts on identity and highlight some of the more inspiring events taking place. She said: "The issue of identity is at the heart of our society and involves everyone." Jackie was born in Edinburgh in 1961 to a Scottish mother and a Nigerian father and was adopted at birth and brought up in Glasgow. National Poetry Day will take place on Thursday, October 5. Publication date 21/08/06 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 22 11:41:16 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:41:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New art and architecture books from University of Minnesota Press Message-ID: <00f301c6c601$6823ee50$0a8e3052@ANNY> New art and architecture books from University of Minnesota Press ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Lienemann To: University of Minnesota Press Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: New art and architecture books from University of Minnesota Press BAUHAUS CULTURE: From Weimar to the Cold War Kathleen James-Chakraborty, editor University of Minnesota Press | 256 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4687-2 | hardcover | $75.00 ISBN 0-8166-4688-0 | paperback | $25.00 Provides fresh insights on the Bauhaus from a historical perspective. In this book, editor Kathleen James-Chakraborty and seven other scholars analyze the accomplishments and dispel the myths of the Bauhaus, placing it firmly in a historical context from before the formation of the Weimar Republic through Nazi ascendancy and World War II into the cold war. Together, they investigate its professors' and students' interactions with mass culture; establish the complexity of its relationship with Wilhelmine, Nazi, and postwar German politics; and challenge the claim that its architects greatly influenced American architecture in the 1930s. "This book is a beautifully sequenced presentation of a whole generation of new work on the Bauhaus and its place in the larger understanding and narratives of twentieth century modernism." -Barry Bergdoll Contributors: Greg Castillo, Juliet Koss, Rose-Carol Washton Long, John V. Maciuika, Wallis Miller, Winfried Nerdinger, Frederic J. Schwartz. For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/J/james_bauhaus.html ST. PAUL'S ARCHITECTURE: A History Jeffrey A. Hess and Paul Clifford Larson University of Minnesota Press | 360 pages | 221 photos, 17 line art, 8 maps | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-3590-0 | hardcover | $34.95 The first architectural history of beautiful St. Paul, Minnesota. >From the grand boulevard of Summit Avenue to the gleaming State Capitol, St. Paul's Architecture presents more than 225 notable surviving buildings and the history of several neighborhoods in the city. With historical photographs and illustrations, this engaging book is a valuable resource not only for those interested in architectural heritage but also for anyone who admires St. Paul's unique beauty and charm. "An insightful narrative and historical photographs and maps telling the rest of the story." -Mpls.St.Paul "Presenting more than 225 notable surviving buildings and the history of several diverse city neighborhoods, St. Paul's Architecture is profusely illustrated with period photography and illustrations, making it a seminal reference for architectural students; admirers of St. Paul's special beauty, charm and history; and a seminal addition to any professional or academic library's Architectural Studies reference collection." -Midwest Book Review For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/H/hess_stpaul.html URBAN PLANNING TODAY: A Harvard Design Magazine Reader William S. Saunders, editor Introduction by Alexander Garvin University of Minnesota Press | 160 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4756-9 | hardcover | $69.00 ISBN 0-8166-4757-7 | paperback | $22.95 Harvard Design Magazine Readers Series, volume 3 A provocative and practical consideration of what works, and what does not, in American urban planning. Urban Planning Today reports on projects in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, New York, and Portland, bringing perspectives of urban design, city planning, criticism, and law to bear on the mixed bag of results observed in these cities. By creating a dialogue of cities' planning successes and failures, this book illustrates that adopting a single model universally will not work and that effective planning must indisputably demonstrate that any public action and private market reaction will be in the local community's interest-physically, functionally, financially, politically, aesthetically, and spiritually. Contributors: Jonathan Barnett, Lynn Becker, Peter Calthorpe, Susan Fainstein, Bent Flyvbjerg, John Kaliski, Jerold Kayden, Matthew J. Kiefer, Hubert Murray, Richard Plunz, Leonie Sandercock, Michael Sheridan. For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/S/saunders_urban.html For information about examination copies, view our exam copy policy online: http://www.upress.umn.edu/ordering/examination.html For more art and architecture books, visit our website: http://www.upress.umn.edu/bysubject/art_history.html You are signed up for University of Minnesota Press E-news. If you wish to be removed from this list, please email lieneman at umn.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 12642 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 22 16:00:54 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:00:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology References: <65E34F15-E04D-44B8-B438-7461EF05FACD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <01a401c6c625$ad507a60$0a8e3052@ANNY> http://www.raintaxi.com/online/1999summer/goldbarth.shtml He is an immensely entertaining poet with a nimble sense of humor and a dizzying intelligence. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 3:22 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology Moonology The shock of a contemporary seeing St. Jerome at his studies?reading, but not by moving his lips! Somewhere ? in his chest, in his skull? another mouth had to be moving! __________ There's a flower inside of the flower the bee doesn't know about until it's too late; an Earth inside of Earth, and we uncover its temple columns, weapons, scrapers, coins, and marvel as if this were Mars. And we've been told, and in our turn we've said, such urgently genuine things, such very extraordinary things!?and all the while, the mouth inside of the mouth, the mouth in the balls, or the mouth that gathers like a pollen on the fallopian tips, or the gulping sound in a bay of the brain where swamp has never dried out in all these millennia . . . a mouth like that says something different, private and pressed to its pillow. We think we see the "face" of the moon, there isn't any culture's folklore that says otherwise; but what if it faces the other direction, mouthing something dark to our understanding, against its dark place on the night? The voice in the belly. The sting in the conscience. The mouth in the chromosome. The chromosome in a mouth. The eyes in the fingertips. A lake in a lake, a sky in a sky. --Albert Goldbarth. Combinations of the Universe. Ohio State UP, 2003. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 22 16:55:22 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:55:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology In-Reply-To: <01a401c6c625$ad507a60$0a8e3052@ANNY> Message-ID: Yes, I've been on a serious Albert Goldbarth kick of late. Wondering, among other things, what others think of his work. Wondering, also, if many people beyond Albert Goldbarth have managed to read more than a fraction of his writings. He seems to publish another 132 page collection of poems every year or two, a dizzying Ashberyan rate. He's had great success, clearly, winning major awards and publishing prolifically for decades with high-profile journals and presses. But somehow we seldom see his name crop up in short lists of the most important contemporary poets. Some reviews I've seen have expressed weariness at his overstuffed high-octane style and his fevered encyclopedic subject matter; others have reveled in his bumptious energy, humor, and oddball perspectives. Mostly his reviews have seemed remarkably positive. Yet he still seems somehow to lurk at the fringes a bit. Given his relentless eccentricity, his formal genre-blurring and experimentalism, as well as his frequent focus on anatomizing language itself, I'm curious as to why his name doesn't more often show up in experimentalist circles. Is he the mainstream's token postmodernist? On 8/22/06 3:00 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > http://www.raintaxi.com/online/1999summer/goldbarth.shtml > He is an immensely entertaining poet with a nimble sense of humor and a > dizzying intelligence. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Aug 22 18:14:35 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:14:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology References: Message-ID: <003c01c6c638$94636d10$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Goldbarth/Moonology"I'm curious as to why his name doesn't more often show up in experimentalist circles." --David Graham I suspect it may be because he does nothing that wasn't standard in American poetry fifty years ago, David. Assuming, probably incorrectly, that by "experimentalist circles," you mean poets and critics doing various kinds of language and pluraesthetic poetry, not poets like Ashbery and Jorie Graham and the critics who write about them. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jayd at csi.com Tue Aug 22 20:44:30 2006 From: jayd at csi.com (Jay Dougherty) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:44:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Interview with Lyn Lifshin Message-ID: <55ac1u$7qs5ks@smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net> PoetryCircle.com is pleased to announce the publication of a new interview with poet Lyn Lifshin. http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,1109.0.html PoetryCircle is a forum for experienced poets. We encourage you to sign up using your real name or the pen name by which you are widely known. From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Aug 22 23:53:26 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:53:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora Message-ID: <9EC6AD40-891D-48F8-9BF7-4F5E04D67597@ripon.edu> In an introductory poetry writing class, I'm assigning my students to write a poem that uses anaphora heavily. Does anyone have some favorite anaphoric poems that could be posted? Naturally, I've already thought of Smart, Whitman, Ginsberg, Sexton, et al. Looking in particular for contemporary examples I might not know of. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reneea at verizon.net Wed Aug 23 00:04:38 2006 From: reneea at verizon.net (Renee Ashley) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:04:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora References: <9EC6AD40-891D-48F8-9BF7-4F5E04D67597@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c6c669$414fc390$da66fea9@Barnette> Hi David, I've been working on a lecture about this -- and a great one is Susan Wheeler's "In Sky" which is in the wom-po mix for the anthology. #143. Also Rachel Zucker's "I. Adenine, Guanine, Cytosine, Thymine" in Black Warrior Review Fall/Winter 2005. Great poems. Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora In an introductory poetry writing class, I'm assigning my students to write a poem that uses anaphora heavily. Does anyone have some favorite anaphoric poems that could be posted? Naturally, I've already thought of Smart, Whitman, Ginsberg, Sexton, et al. Looking in particular for contemporary examples I might not know of. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From William_Knott at emerson.edu Wed Aug 23 13:31:27 2006 From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:31:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anaphora References: <200608231600.k7NG04EH023595@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529E8D@mail.emerson.edu> ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora In an introductory poetry writing class, I'm assigning my students to write a poem that uses anaphora heavily. Does anyone have some favorite anaphoric poems that could be posted? Naturally, I've already thought of Smart, Whitman, Ginsberg, Sexton, et al. Looking in particular for contemporary examples I might not know of. >>>>>David, google "litany" and you'll find some. . . I had a student spring semester who needed to be pointed in the anaphora direction and she and i both found several examples online using the term "litany" as well as "anaphora" .... also look at Tate's BAP (96?) for some more. . . Goldbarth intimidates me, which is why i don't read him; i can only take condescension in small doses a la Gluck... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3017 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Aug 23 14:34:44 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:34:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora References: <9EC6AD40-891D-48F8-9BF7-4F5E04D67597@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <009601c6c6e2$d0921160$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Check out Nancy Willard. Here's one: A Wreath To The Fish Who is this fish, still wearing its wealth, flat on my drainboard, dead asleep, its suit of mail proof only against the stream? What is it to live in a stream, to dwell forever in a tunnel of cold, never to leave your shining birthsuit, never to spend your inheritance of thin coins? And who is the stream, who lolls all day in an unmade bed, living on nothing but weather, singing, a little mad in the head, opening her apron to shells, carcasses, crabs, eyeglasses, the lines of fisherman begging for news from the interior-oh, who are these lines that link a big sky to a small stream that go down for great things: the cold muscle of the trout, the shinning scrawl of the eel in a difficult passage, hooked-but who is this hook, this cunning and faithful fanatic who will not let go but holds the false bait and the true worm alike and tears the fish, yet gives it up to the basket in which it will ride to the kitchen of someone important, perhaps the Pope who rejoices that his cook has found such a fish and blesses it and eats it and rises, saying, "Children, what is it to live in the stream, day after day, and come at last to the table, transfigured with spices and herbs, a little martyr, a little miracle; children, children, who is this fish?" ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora In an introductory poetry writing class, I'm assigning my students to write a poem that uses anaphora heavily. Does anyone have some favorite anaphoric poems that could be posted? Naturally, I've already thought of Smart, Whitman, Ginsberg, Sexton, et al. Looking in particular for contemporary examples I might not know of. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Aug 23 15:56:45 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:56:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Anaphora Message-ID: Pound uses (usuras?) it quite a bit, both in HSM and in the Cantos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 23 16:57:39 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:57:39 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Anaphora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yup. And by the way, next class I plan to recite "My Agent Says" by R. S. Gwynn to my students, along with Shakespeare's sonnet #60, some Whitman, Thomas, Bishop, Clifton, and others. Also on the reading list so far: Fearing, Rukeyser, Justice, Dugan, Collins, Olds, Rich, Harjo, Mullen, and David Mason. One text for the class is Contemporary American Poetry by Gwynn & Lindner, in fact, which I recommend particularly for intro writing classes--among its poets it has a very useful variety of techniques for students to analyze and imitate. On 8/23/06 2:56 PM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" wrote: > Pound uses (usuras?) it quite a bit, both in HSM and in the Cantos. > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 23 17:30:41 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:30:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Anaphora References: Message-ID: <00c801c6c6fb$62b926b0$05ae3452@ANNY> Re: AnaphoraI also approached that text by Gwynn & Lindner, not read thouroughly but some. Another text I read better because I had to: Schakel, Peter J., and Jack Ridl, eds. 250 Poems: A Portable Anthology. Bedford/St. Martin's, 2002. ISBN 0-312-40238-4 $23.45 quite good. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:57 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Anaphora Yup. And by the way, next class I plan to recite "My Agent Says" by R. S. Gwynn to my students, along with Shakespeare's sonnet #60, some Whitman, Thomas, Bishop, Clifton, and others. Also on the reading list so far: Fearing, Rukeyser, Justice, Dugan, Collins, Olds, Rich, Harjo, Mullen, and David Mason. One text for the class is Contemporary American Poetry by Gwynn & Lindner, in fact, which I recommend particularly for intro writing classes--among its poets it has a very useful variety of techniques for students to analyze and imitate. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Aug 23 19:09:45 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:09:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Anaphora Message-ID: In a message dated 8/23/2006 3:58:29 PM Central Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > Yup. And by the way, next class I plan to recite "My Agent Says" by R. S. > Gwynn to my students, along with Shakespeare's sonnet #60, some Whitman, > Thomas, Bishop, Clifton, and others. > > Also on the reading list so far: Fearing, Rukeyser, Justice, Dugan, > Collins, Olds, Rich, Harjo, Mullen, and David Mason. One text for the class is > Contemporary American Poetry by Gwynn &Lindner, in fact, which I recommend > particularly for intro writing classes--among its poets it has a very useful > variety of techniques for students to analyze and imitate. Check's in the mail, David. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Aug 23 19:11:33 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:11:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Anaphora Message-ID: In a message dated 8/23/2006 4:31:22 PM Central Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > > I also approached that text by Gwynn &Lindner, not read thouroughly but > some. > Another text I read better because I had to: > Schakel, Peter J., and Jack Ridl, eds. 250 Poems: A Portable Anthology. > Bedford/St. Martin?s, 2002. ISBN 0-312-40238-4 $23.45 > > quite good. > > > A pale imitation of Poetry: A Pocket Anthology, ed. R. S. Gwynn, now in its 5th ed. Try it. You'll like it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 23 19:57:23 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:57:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry south by southwest - and France and Poland Message-ID: <2a7.712faeb.321e4563@aol.com> _http://www.yesweekly.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=22&ArticleID=1632& TM=11770.04_ (http://www.yesweekly.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=22&ArticleID=1632&TM=11770.04) Poetry south by southwest - and France and Poland Jordan Green News editor Jennifer Grotz begins her first semester as an instructor in the UNCG master of fine arts writing program this fall. Greensboro by way of Krakow, Paris and Middlebury, Vt. Joining UNCG's master of fine arts writing program as an instructor this fall, she follows in the footsteps of a role model, Randall Jarrell, the revered American critic and poet who loomed large as a professor at the university. As if it were meant as an introduction, the university announced on Aug. 15 that Grotz was awarded the New Writing Award for Poetry by the Fellowship of Southern Writers. Among the charter members at the fellowship, which meets every two years in Chattanooga, Tenn., are Ralph Ellison, Walker Percy, and retired UNCG professor Fred Chappell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 23 19:59:21 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:59:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New from Shearsman Books Message-ID: <38e.934b144.321e45d9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 09:31:30 +0100 From: Tony Frazer Subject: New from Shearsman Books [Apologies to anyone receiving more than one copy of this message] Reviews The website has new reviews by Peter Riley & Nathan Thompson of =20 recent Flood publications. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/editorial/reviews.html E-books Newly available: Portraits by Carlos T. Blackburn http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/ebooks/ebooks_home.html Recent new titles: Maurice Scully: Tig http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/scully.html Paperback, 104pp, 8.5"x5.5", =A38.95 / $15 ISBN-13 9780907562962 Maurice Scully is one of Ireland's most original poets, and most =20 unusual. All of his work over the past 25 years has been part of one =20 enormous project, under the umbrella title Things That Happen, which =20 will be completed with the appearance of this volume, the final =20 section of the whole work, and Sonata (the penultimate section, also =20 to be published in 2006 by Reality Street Editions). The earlier =20 parts of this large edifice are available as Five Freedoms of =20 Movement (revised edition, Etruscan Books, 2002) and Livelihood =20 (comprising five books and three interstices, Wild Honey Press, =20 2004). A criss-crossing of languages and cultures, and the point at =20 which the personal life of the author intersects with the public =20 domain, Tig is an absorbing book in its own right, as well as being =20 the summation of one of the most interesting projects in recent Irish =20= writing. Forthcoming titles, due for official publication in September & =20 October this year, BUT ALREADY AVAILABLE for order in the UK, from =20 the press, or through normal distribution channels: Peter Larkin: Leaves of Field http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/larkin.html Paperback, 116pp, 8"x5", =A38.95 / $15 ISBN-13 9780907562979 Leaves of Field Leaves of Field contains three long sequences: the =20 title poem, plus 'Open Woods' and 'Moving Woods', which together =20 represent Peter Larkin's most recent forays into the eco-poetic field =20= that he has made very much his own. This is a poetry that is both =20 radical and luminous, blending scientific discourse with more =20 expected poetic approaches. To write about nature in the contemporary =20= world it is no longer possible to admire it from afar. In these poems =20= nature is examined at an almost microscopic level, seen from within. C=E9sar Vallejo: Selected Poems Edited & translated by Valentino Gianuzzi and Michael Smith. http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/vallejo_sp.html Paperback, 132pp, 8.5"x5.5", =A39.95 / $16 ISBN-13 9780907562993 In September 2005, Shearsman Books published the astonishing new =20 translations of Vallejo's Trilce and the Complete Later Poems =20 1923-1938, edited and translated by Valentino Gianuzzi and Michael =20 Smith. This Selected fills an important gap on the bookshelves by =20 making available a rigorously-edited bilingual selection of Vallejo's =20= work, which draws on the two earlier Shearsman volumes as well as a =20 group of poems from Vallejo's first publication, The Black Heralds, =20 itself a fascinating work which demonstrates the origins of his =20 astonishing art, and what boundaries he had to cross in order to =20 achieve the heights marked by Trilce. Shearsman Books will publish =20 the complete Black Heralds in 2007, together with some uncollected =20 poems from the pre-Trilce period. Mary Coghill: Designed to Fade http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/coghill.html Paperback, 120pp, 9"x6", =A38.95 / $15 ISBN-13 9781905700059 Designed to Fade is a narrative poem about life in the modern city of =20= London, a journey through a day in London seen through a woman=92s =20 eyes. The drama begins in the early hours and ends at the same time =20 the following day. Referring to city poetry by other poets and =20 experimenting with poetic form in an attempt to develop a women=92s =20 poetry of the city, the author has developed an intriguing post-=20 modernist slant to the dramatic unities of time, place and character. =20= As city dweller you will find yourself in here. There are place =20 names, descriptions of commuter journeys and brushes with authority, =20 work and bosses which will evoke an empathy that modern poetry has =20 all too often omitted to express. Designed to Fade is a stylistic =20 tour-de-force, and a most unusual sequence of poems. Mary Coghill works and studies in London and spends most of her time =20 in the city. Fred Beake: New & Selected Poems http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/beake.html Paperback, 144pp , 8.5"x5.5", =A39.95 / $17 ISBN-13 9780907562986 Fred Beake has been writing since the late Sixties, and this New and =20 Selected provides a much needed overview of a constantly developing =20 body of work. About a third of the book is given over to the very =20 fresh and colourful poems that have been written since the author's =20 move to South Devon in 2003. Beake has maintained an interest throughout his career in the short, =20 often very visual lyric; but has also written off-beat fictions =20 around particular characters, and very musical longer pieces such as =20 'Marona' and 'Towards the West' that reflect (if at a distance) the =20 poet's early interest in the French Surrealists. This is an unusual =20 poetry, and hard to place in terms of the modern scene. It occupies a =20= position that is equidistant between the Imagists and Objectivists, =20 the Surrealists, and much older things. R.F. Langley: Journals http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/langley.html Published 15 October 2006 Paperback, 144pp, 9"x6", =A39.95 / $17 ISBN-13: 978-1-905700-00-4 R.F. Langley's Collected Poems (Carcanet Press, 2000) was one of the =20 poetic highlights of recent times, showing a sometimes sceptical =20 public that a contemporary poet could still engage with the shades of =20= Modernism and produce fascinating and original work. Throughout his =20 life, the author has been maintaining a journal, which is part diary, =20= part autobiography and part commonplace book; some extracts from =20 these fascinating volumes have been appearing in P N Review since =20 2002. This book offers a number of selections, ranging in time from =20 1970 to 2005, which will give admirers of his poetry a clearer idea =20 of the author's other writings, which run in parallel with his poetry =20= and sometimes provide the underpinnings for it. Ken Edwards: No Public Language =97 Selected Poems 1975-1995 http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2006/edwards.html Paperback, 184pp, 8.5"x5.5", =A310.95 / $18.50 ISBN-13 = 978-1-905700-01-1 The author says of this Selected: "This volume contains what I think =20 of as the essential matter in my verse composition over two decades. =20 I tend to compose in books, and didn=92t want to disturb the integrity =20= of my favourites: therefore Drumming & Poems, Intensive Care and 3600 =20= Weekends are included in their entirety, as are the shorter sequences =20= A4 Portrait and A4 Landscape. Erik Satie loved children, an early =20 pamphlet, is also included, as I still think it=92s quite sweet, and =20 besides it was the first showing of what later evolved into my =20 preferred procedures: cutting and splicing, juxtaposition, language =20 play, composition by rhythm." ___________________________________ Tony Frazer Shearsman Books Ltd 58 Velwell Road Exeter EX4 4LD England Tel / Fax: (+44) (0) 1392-434511 http://www.shearsman.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Wed Aug 23 20:19:36 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:19:36 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry south by southwest - and France and Poland In-Reply-To: <2a7.712faeb.321e4563@aol.com> References: <2a7.712faeb.321e4563@aol.com> Message-ID: <1457CD59-EE1C-4A0D-A7BF-2419398D1324@bigpond.com> I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Anthony Lawrence, a poet from Tasmania, Australia. I'm looking forward to receiving these emails. On 24/08/2006, at 9:57 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > http://www.yesweekly.com/main.asp? > SectionID=5&SubSectionID=22&ArticleID=1632&TM=11770.04 > > Poetry south by southwest - and France and Poland > Jordan Green > News editor > > > > Jennifer Grotz begins her first semester as an instructor in the > UNCG master of fine arts writing program this fall. > > Greensboro by way of Krakow, Paris and Middlebury, Vt. Joining > UNCG's master of fine arts writing program as an instructor this > fall, she follows in the footsteps of a role model, Randall > Jarrell, the revered American critic and poet who loomed large as a > professor at the university. > > As if it were meant as an introduction, the university announced on > Aug. 15 that Grotz was awarded the New Writing Award for Poetry by > the Fellowship of Southern Writers. Among the charter members at > the fellowship, which meets every two years in Chattanooga, Tenn., > are Ralph Ellison, Walker Percy, and retired UNCG professor Fred > Chappell. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 23 21:11:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:11:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry south by southwest - and France and Poland Message-ID: <3b6.5e3e00c.321e56a4@aol.com> In a message dated 8/23/2006 8:21:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com writes: , a poet from Tasmania Lawrence, welcome, but do you expect us to believe there is such a place? There's magazine way, way down there called Famous Reporter, that I'm familiar with. and that one Ralph Wessman edits I hope this Tasmania is a real place and that I may one day visit the island and meet him. My only other association with that imaginary land was a book a stumbled on years ago, and that is well worth owning is you're a poet, called (lame name) The World of Poetry (c 1959) collected and selected by Clive Sansom (probably a made-up name, too), being an organized assortment of quotes by poets and critics from the late 19th and early 20th century. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Wed Aug 23 21:49:29 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:49:29 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry south by southwest - and France and Poland In-Reply-To: <3b6.5e3e00c.321e56a4@aol.com> References: <3b6.5e3e00c.321e56a4@aol.com> Message-ID: <604250E6-C339-4440-AB94-341D651D3F72@bigpond.com> I know Ralph Wessman well. A fine man. Tasmania does exist, despite certain cartography that suggests it's part of The great Southern Abyss Anthony On 24/08/2006, at 11:11 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/23/2006 8:21:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com writes: > , a poet from Tasmania > Lawrence, welcome, but do you expect us to believe > there is such a place? There's magazine way, way > down there called Famous Reporter, that I'm familiar with. > and that one Ralph Wessman edits I hope this Tasmania > is a real place and that I may one day visit the island and > meet him. My only other association with that imaginary land > was a book a stumbled on years ago, and that is well worth > owning is you're a poet, called (lame name) The World of > Poetry (c 1959) collected and selected by Clive Sansom (probably > a made-up name, too), being an organized assortment > of quotes by poets and critics from the late 19th and early > 20th century. > > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 23 22:07:09 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:07:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology Message-ID: David, I count myself as a fan of his work...but I think the reservations are valid, too. Too much, too many, too much the same. The 'library poem' that was posted is telling, because this poetry is made from books...not from life. One of his books had the title Pop Culture and the poetry shows that kind of surface flitting we get as surfing past Discovery, History, TNT, SciFi, MTV, AMC... It used be that the great poets had a handful of concerns/themes.... it was inevitable that our age would produce a major bard afflicted with ADD. Finnegan In a message dated 8/22/2006 4:56:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Yes, I've been on a serious Albert Goldbarth kick of late. Wondering, among other things, what others think of his work. Wondering, also, if many people beyond Albert Goldbarth have managed to read more than a fraction of his writings. He seems to publish another 132 page collection of poems every year or two, a dizzying Ashberyan rate. He's had great success, clearly, winning major awards and publishing prolifically for decades with high-profile journals and presses. But somehow we seldom see his name crop up in short lists of the most important contemporary poets. Some reviews I've seen have expressed weariness at his overstuffed high-octane style and his fevered encyclopedic subject matter; others have reveled in his bumptious energy, humor, and oddball perspectives. Mostly his reviews have seemed remarkably positive. Yet he still seems somehow to lurk at the fringes a bit. Given his relentless eccentricity, his formal genre-blurring and experimentalism, as well as his frequent focus on anatomizing language itself, I'm curious as to why his name doesn't more often show up in experimentalist circles. Is he the mainstream's token postmodernist? On 8/22/06 3:00 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Wed Aug 23 22:24:38 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:24:38 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goldbarth/Moonology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <065D71B4-0028-4C42-92BC-325DD9FDB878@bigpond.com> I like Goldbarth's poetry. That he's so prolific is not a problem for me. Token postmodernist: interesting thought. The Australian poet John Kinsella publishes at at an astonishing rate, but his work hardly ever arrests my inner attention. On 24/08/2006, at 12:07 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > David, > I count myself as a fan of his work...but I think the reservations > are valid, too. Too much, too many, too much the same. The > 'library poem' that was posted is telling, because this poetry > is made from books...not from life. One of his books had the > title Pop Culture and the poetry shows that kind of surface > flitting we get as surfing past Discovery, History, TNT, SciFi, > MTV, AMC... > > It used be that the great poets had a handful of concerns/themes.... > it was inevitable that our age would produce a major bard afflicted > with ADD. > Finnegan > > > In a message dated 8/22/2006 4:56:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Yes, I've been on a serious Albert Goldbarth kick of late. > Wondering, among other things, what others think of his work. > Wondering, also, if many people beyond Albert Goldbarth have > managed to read more than a fraction of his writings. He seems to > publish another 132 page collection of poems every year or two, a > dizzying Ashberyan rate. > > He's had great success, clearly, winning major awards and > publishing prolifically for decades with high-profile journals and > presses. But somehow we seldom see his name crop up in short lists > of the most important contemporary poets. > > Some reviews I've seen have expressed weariness at his overstuffed > high-octane style and his fevered encyclopedic subject matter; > others have reveled in his bumptious energy, humor, and oddball > perspectives. Mostly his reviews have seemed remarkably positive. > Yet he still seems somehow to lurk at the fringes a bit. > > Given his relentless eccentricity, his formal genre-blurring and > experimentalism, as well as his frequent focus on anatomizing > language itself, I'm curious as to why his name doesn't more often > show up in experimentalist circles. Is he the mainstream's token > postmodernist? > > > On 8/22/06 3:00 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 24 08:23:14 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:23:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] trading words Message-ID: <416.899ccdb.321ef432@aol.com> Mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true. --Bertrand Russell (1872-1969) Mysticism and Logic Poetics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 24 08:36:11 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:36:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] The Fire: Collected Essays of Robin Blaser Message-ID: <3b8.82146bd.321ef73b@aol.com> The Fire: Collected Essays of Robin Blaser Robin Blaser "Blaser is a fine poet and a superb representative of a tradition that is still undervalued. His work is very important."?Charles Altieri Spanning four decades of meditation on the avant-garde in poetry, art, and philosophy, the essays collected in The Fire reveal Robin Blaser's strikingly fresh perspective on "New American" poets, deconstructive . . . _http://go.ucpress.edu/10431.html_ (http://www.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0zMTI1NTUmcD0xJnU9MTA2MTUzMDI3JmxpPTg1NTA3NA/index.html) Subjects: Literature; American Literature; Poetry; Literary Theory & Criticism; Autobiographies and Biographies 978-0-520-24510-5, cloth $65.00 978-0-520-24511-2, paper $29.95 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 24 09:21:47 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:21:47 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] trading words References: <416.899ccdb.321ef432@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f901c6c780$407ec930$85a33852@ANNY> this is excellent! one could also add: from which we learn who we are, or what we want, ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] trading words Mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true. --Bertrand Russell (1872-1969) Mysticism and Logic Poetics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 24 09:28:23 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:28:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] To the Scholarly Minds of New Poetry Message-ID: <010601c6c781$2d73a4e0$85a33852@ANNY> Do you think this can pass as a Terza Rima? Your humble student: Terza Rima The Dancer When music grew within its dark and given measure Mountains stretched their nerves to far blue spheres Open we were to sweet graces, to the enchanting dancer Laying in the midst of broken worlds he swiftly clears His body out of immobile death to life broken the sheath For those who watch: vivid joy of sight, no shade of tears Of wonderful blossoms were his moves a wreath Circling, kneeling, jumping with vigorous impulsive force As if he gently wandering on invisible scented tree heath Through powerful waves to tides he, as a youthful white horse, As a mad dash, futuristically flew while to the distant south sea Transposed was the audience plunged in light Aegenian course >From all and unspoken the same unendurable and moving plea United we were in breath in soul by spiritual righteous wish That end to him, to disciplined beauty should never come or be Note: Tree heath - noun: evergreen treelike shrub having fragrant white flowers in large terminal panicles and hard woody roots used to make pipes (not that I like to write in this way, signed this time: Your Lucifer Anarchicus) Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 24 09:35:16 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:35:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Goldbarth's measure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78BAE7DF-25C3-4862-BE4D-20D236EBF892@ripon.edu> Some quick pre-teaching thoughts on Goldbarth. I'd read Goldbarth for years, of course, since he's been so prominently available. It was pretty piecemeal, however; I saw him often enough in the journals, but I owned only a selected edition from 1983. And mostly I shared the common admiration for his skills as well as the reservations about his work that Jim Finnegan mentions. Recently, though, I have actually given his works a more serious look, realizing (among other things) that the two or three books I'd read over the years represented the merest fraction of his astonishing total output. So, with the help of libraries & some used bookstores, I located more of his often out-of-print work and dug in. (I still haven't even come close to reading half of his poetry, much less his essays and fiction.) I'm not saying the the reservations don't still apply; but I'm minding them less and less. Maybe I'm teaching myself how to read Goldbarth. For me it's like diving into the minor works of some 19th Century novelist; after a while even the flaws start to seem charming, and the prodigious length of the books becomes more of a luxury than a trial. And one thing I'm learning is that, although there *is* a vast amount of bookishness in his work, a relentless scavenging among the oddments of history, literature, science, pop culture, and arcana, there's also a pretty broad streak of tenderness and lots of good-old- fashioned lyric pith as well as yarn-spinning. Such things can get lost amid the splendors and challenges of his kinetic style. I just read this morning from his book *Adventures in Ancient Egypt*, which despite the title and many apparent detours into history and myth, is largely an extended elegy for Goldbarth's parents. The sequence "Semitic Rituals for the Dead," for instance, is really wonderful. At its heart is a little one-act-play in which Goldbarth has a conversation with his dead father. It's glorious stuff--funny, tender, pointed, and the opposite of show-offy or condescending. There are lots and lots of such moments scattered among his books. On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:07 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > David, > I count myself as a fan of his work...but I think the reservations > are valid, too. Too much, too many, too much the same. The > 'library poem' that was posted is telling, because this poetry > is made from books...not from life. One of his books had the > title Pop Culture and the poetry shows that kind of surface > flitting we get as surfing past Discovery, History, TNT, SciFi, > MTV, AMC... > > It used be that the great poets had a handful of concerns/themes.... > it was inevitable that our age would produce a major bard afflicted > with ADD. > Finnegan > > > In a message dated 8/22/2006 4:56:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Yes, I've been on a serious Albert Goldbarth kick of late. > Wondering, among other things, what others think of his work. > Wondering, also, if many people beyond Albert Goldbarth have > managed to read more than a fraction of his writings. He seems to > publish another 132 page collection of poems every year or two, a > dizzying Ashberyan rate. > > He's had great success, clearly, winning major awards and > publishing prolifically for decades with high-profile journals and > presses. But somehow we seldom see his name crop up in short lists > of the most important contemporary poets. > > Some reviews I've seen have expressed weariness at his overstuffed > high-octane style and his fevered encyclopedic subject matter; > others have reveled in his bumptious energy, humor, and oddball > perspectives. Mostly his reviews have seemed remarkably positive. > Yet he still seems somehow to lurk at the fringes a bit. > > Given his relentless eccentricity, his formal genre-blurring and > experimentalism, as well as his frequent focus on anatomizing > language itself, I'm curious as to why his name doesn't more often > show up in experimentalist circles. Is he the mainstream's token > postmodernist? > ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 24 09:46:49 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 09:46:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets in war of words Message-ID: <387.a1bb791.321f07c9@aol.com> ttp://www.southmanchesterreporter.co.uk/news/s/216/216794_poets_in_war_of_word s.html Published: 24th August 2006 Poets in war of words SLAM Poet, Prince Marley.THINGS are going from bad to verse for poets in the Bohemian heartlands of Chorlton. First its famous poetry group, the Manchester Poets, was axed because nobody could be bothered to turn up. Now a royal row is brewing between modern ?slam? poets and lovers of the traditional art form. AdvertisementVeteran poet Dave Tarrant has blamed the demise of his monthly Manchester Poets workshops at Chorlton library on the rise of new-wave performance poetry, which he has labelled a ?junk? art form. But the modernists have hit back, slamming old-school poets for being ?stuck in the past?. Dave, who ran the Manchester Poets for 25 years, has angered the new 'slam' poets by describing the genre as 'rubbish'. He added: "It?s symptomatic of this new generation of people who can?t marshall their own thoughts, never mind write them down. There?s very little art in it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 24 10:58:36 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:58:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mexican Food Message-ID: <012501c6c78d$cca83650$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> A thought from the NY Times review of Stephen Fry's new book; When someone orders an unappetizing meal at a restaurant, the usual response is to dismiss it by saying, "This is no good," or "I'm not into Mexican food." But with poetry, the baby, more often than not, is tossed with the bathwater: "I just don't get poetry" is the typical reaction when an individual poem makes a reader's eyes cross. Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 24 13:19:54 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:19:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] is this poetry? Message-ID: <018201c6c7a1$841bbbf0$85a33852@ANNY> 06-Aug-06 04:27 AM - "Susan left us at 3:25 pm August 5, 2006. It was peaceful; the rest after her greatest race. We told her we would be OK. That she had made us strong enough to carry on. When she was sure that we were ready, she was gone." "Tonight the girls and I took a ferry to Bainbridge Island. It was a peaceful passage from the turmoil of the city to a quiet spot she loved. Tekla wore her mother's necklace and Chisana wore her rings. We sat silently near the shore and looked up. The sky was an explosion of stars. I asked Chisana which one she thought was her mom. She sat on my lap and studied the sky for a long time finally she pointed and said 'I think that one. But don't worry she is not alone.' Neither are we. She will be guiding us from that star." from this site: http://www.iditarod.com/2-11.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 24 13:27:27 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:27:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] is this poetry? References: <018201c6c7a1$841bbbf0$85a33852@ANNY> Message-ID: <002201c6c7a2$9260e1d0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> It's very moving. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: New Poetry Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] is this poetry? 06-Aug-06 04:27 AM - "Susan left us at 3:25 pm August 5, 2006. It was peaceful; the rest after her greatest race. We told her we would be OK. That she had made us strong enough to carry on. When she was sure that we were ready, she was gone." "Tonight the girls and I took a ferry to Bainbridge Island. It was a peaceful passage from the turmoil of the city to a quiet spot she loved. Tekla wore her mother's necklace and Chisana wore her rings. We sat silently near the shore and looked up. The sky was an explosion of stars. I asked Chisana which one she thought was her mom. She sat on my lap and studied the sky for a long time finally she pointed and said 'I think that one. But don't worry she is not alone.' Neither are we. She will be guiding us from that star." from this site: http://www.iditarod.com/2-11.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 24 14:45:31 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:45:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events Message-ID: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com> Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status _http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5_ (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5) -- The 10th Planet Every night they wheel out the great siege gun of Palomar trying to bring down the walls of darkness surrounding a tenth planet. Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto where the Sun's gravitational empire begins to fray and fall apart. The tenth planet that might be the foreshadowing of what our world could become, a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped and left for dead as progress grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing martial law, torturers and detention camps, the missiles and minarets, borders closed with sutures of barbwire. Remember that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, the sword and gunpowder, smallpox and syphilis. Always religions go awry, creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, something, responsible for bad weather or blindness, for wars and total eclipses of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, its face in the little handmirror of the universe that rests at the base of the telescope, it won't tell us anything. A face marked by craters and half-hidden in shadow. It won't look at us, it will turn away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Thu Aug 24 15:18:09 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 12:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mexican Food In-Reply-To: <012501c6c78d$cca83650$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <20060824191809.68683.qmail@web83113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It's like turning off the radio and saying, "I don't like music" because you heard a country tune. And then you miss out on the folk and the jazz and the rock and the classical and the bluegrass and the blues and the alt-country and the Irish ballads and the ... Amy TheOldMole wrote: A thought from the NY Times review of Stephen Fry's new book; When someone orders an unappetizing meal at a restaurant, the usual response is to dismiss it by saying, ?This is no good,? or ?I?m not into Mexican food.? But with poetry, the baby, more often than not, is tossed with the bathwater: ?I just don?t get poetry? is the typical reaction when an individual poem makes a reader?s eyes cross. Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 24 16:55:29 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:55:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mexican Food In-Reply-To: <20060824191809.68683.qmail@web83113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes: I often ask classes of intro students if there is anyone present who doesn't like music. (Never has anyone said yes, though I did know someone in college who was at least indifferent to music, and another who claimed not to enjoy eating.) Then, of course, I ask if there is anyone who loves rock but not opera, some songs by U2 but not others, etc. From there it's pretty easy to see the absurdity of statements like "I don't like music" or "I just don't get food." I tell them that it's OK to say "I don't like Dickinson" or "Confessional poetry bores me," but if they say "I don't like poetry" they'll have to endure further questioning. . . . But, of course, all right-thinking listeners *do* like country music. . . . ---------------------------- On 8/24/06 2:18 PM, "amy king" wrote: > It's like turning off the radio and saying, "I don't like music" because you > heard a country tune. And then you miss out on the folk and the jazz and the > rock and the classical and the bluegrass and the blues and the alt-country and > the Irish ballads and the ... > > > > Amy > > TheOldMole wrote: > >> >> A thought from the NY Times review of Stephen Fry's new book; >> >> >> >> When someone orders an unappetizing meal at a restaurant, the usual response >> is to dismiss it by saying, ?This is no good,? or ?I?m not into Mexican >> food.? But with poetry, the baby, more often than not, is tossed with the >> bathwater: ?I just don?t get poetry? is the typical reaction when an >> individual poem makes a reader?s eyes cross. >> >> ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Fri Aug 25 02:39:57 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:39:57 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events In-Reply-To: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com> References: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com> Message-ID: <585D0E6B-BE9A-4F1A-8D46-BAC5580FC37F@bigpond.com> What's the attitude to Ted Kooser's work among this group? I find the best of his poems have the ability to stop me in my tracks. His imagery can be astounding. I think he leaves someone like Billy Collins in a dustcloud. On 25/08/2006, at 4:45 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5 > > -- > The 10th Planet > > > Every night they wheel out > the great siege gun of Palomar > trying to bring down the walls of darkness > surrounding a tenth planet. > Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto > where the Sun's gravitational empire > begins to fray and fall apart. > The tenth planet that might be > the foreshadowing of what our world could become, > a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped > and left for dead as progress > grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, > bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when > we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing > martial law, torturers and detention camps, > the missiles and minarets, borders closed > with sutures of barbwire. Remember > that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves > were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. > But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, > Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God > destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- > Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, > the sword and gunpowder, smallpox > and syphilis. Always religions go awry, > creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, > something, responsible for bad weather > or blindness, for wars and total eclipses > of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, > its face in the little handmirror of the universe > that rests at the base of the telescope, > it won't tell us anything. A face marked > by craters and half-hidden in shadow. > It won't look at us, it will turn away. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Fri Aug 25 06:14:55 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:14:55 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] A Call For Very Good Poems In-Reply-To: <200605281600.k4SG04M5015790@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/ "Intercapillary Space" is a regularly updated poetry blogzine with a growing archive of reviews, essays and poems. Now we would like to read poetry sent to us for consideration. We can offer no payment other than placement. We like all kinds of poetry as long as it is brilliant. We prefer louche intelligence but will happily take any swank speech. Please send as much as possible so we can choose those poems which delight us. Submissions will be considered and discussed by both of us within two days and poems chosen will then be posted online within a week. So send your work to edmundhardy at hotmail.com or laurasteele0 at lycos.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 25 09:36:48 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:36:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Americanism and Americanization: A Critical History of Domestic and Global Message-ID: <008801c6c84b$840ee970$868d3052@ANNY> >From: Elteren.M.C.M. van [mailto:Mel.vanElteren at uvt.nl] >Sent: dinsdag 22 augustus 2006 14:44 Americanism and Americanization: A Critical History of Domestic and Global Influence Mel van Elteren Jefferson, NC, and London: McFarland, 2006 256 pp. $35 - ?24.50 soft cover (7 x 10) Notes, bibliography, index ISBN 0-7864-2785-X Description With the current state of foreign affairs, the terms "Americanism" and "Americanization" sometimes take on an unexpected - and an unflattering - connotation. Americanism essentially involves values, beliefs, ideals, goods and practices in local settings outside the United States that are in some way related or attributed to American influence. While the validity of this influence may be under scrutiny, it requires a detailed historical - and sometimes cultural - analysis to understand all the dynamics and implications of Americanization. A variety of factors contribute to its influence, including the preoccupation and reception of the relevant culture itself. For instance, many European countries have at times demonstrated a preoccupation with all things American which was not necessarily swayed by any action of America itself. The overall actualization of Americanization, however, encompasses a number of societal dimensions, including power differentials in the exchanges concerned. Informed by a history of relevant developments on both sides of the Atlantic since the early nineteenth century, this volume presents an in-depth critical analysis of the Americanization process. Beginning with a survey of early European preoccupations with things American, the book goes on to discuss European concerns regarding American influence after World War II. The work then looks at Americanism and its influence within the United States itself, especially regarding developments during the New Deal and beyond. The primary goal of the analysis is the construction of an interpretive framework, allowing for a more balanced approach to the study of Americanism abroad. Written from a critical, social-emancipatory perspective, the author's approach blends economic, military, social, political, cultural and psychological dimensions as well as an examination of the ways in which these areas interact. Finally, Americanism is examined as part of a U.S.-style corporate globalization at the turn of the twenty-first century. Contents The first two chapters offer an historical overview of the usages of the terms "Americanism" and "Americanization" in Europe (the major locus of initial interest in American influences abroad) against the background of diverse images of America. The first chapter addresses the origins of the preoccupation with "Americanization" in the context of political and philosophical debates on Euro-American exchanges, beginning in Britain in the 1830s and then turning towards France and Germany as the other two main sites of contestation of American influence since the 1850s. It considers not only the discourses of conservative intellectuals and politicians, but also those of businessmen, trade union leaders and other working-class leaders, political liberals, social radicals, and ordinary people until the interwar years. The second chapter outlines the debates on Americanization in Western Europe after World War II, which leads to a schematic overview of the major discourses at the turn of twenty-first century. In addition, this chapter throws light on the parallels between the various discourses of cultural Americanization - historically the predominant interest of foreign elites - and different visions on mass/popular culture in Europe and other parts of the world within the European orbit. The next two chapters take a closer look at the American scene and chart the various usages of the terms "Americanism" and "Americanization" in American history. Chapter three traces the exclusionary political meanings of Americanism in the mid-nineteenth century and examines the Americanization movement with regard to the "new immigrants" from the late 1890s until the 1920s, as well as the critiques of its ideals of Americanism by adherents of ethnic pluralism. It further covers the forced assimilation campaigns regarding Native Americans from the late 1880s until the early 1930s, and the Americanization programs specifically aimed at Mexican immigrants. Finally, this chapter scrutinizes the appropriations of Americanism among labor and the left in the work setting and in politics prior to the New Deal era. Chapter four analyzes first the various interpretations of Americanism and Americanization within the New Deal context and Popular Front culture until World War II. Secondly, it highlights the crucial role of Americanism regarding U.S. citizenship as a political issue at the peak of the Cold War. Then the focus shifts to the contestations of Americanism during the 1960s and after, when various new social movements emerged, along with multiculturalism and its attendant identity politics. A major point of interest are the political struggles revolving around preferred meanings of Americanism and Americanization in relation to questions of immigration (regarding the influx from Latin America in particular) against the backdrop of a new conservative Americanism that emerged in the 1980s. Finally, attention is paid to the exclusionist Americanism vis-?-vis Arabs and Muslims, and Americans of Arabic descent, as well as political dissidents of various stripes in the "war on terror" after 9/11. The chapter ends with a section about the more specific phrase "Americanization of the South" (and a related one: "Southernization of America") that came in use during the second half of the twentieth century. Historically informed by this wide-ranging overview, chapter five presents a systematic approach of the subject matter, and defines the key terms more precisely. It examines the major approaches that are currently in vogue and indicates the problematic sides of each. The latter discussion is continued in the next chapter, where the pitfalls of an extreme social constructionism are explained and the necessity is argued of partly undoing the deconstructions of Americanization that have taken place in the past few decades. More generally, this means recapturing the critical elements in the notion of Americanization that have gotten lost in the approaches at issue here. Thus chapter six lays the foundations of an interpretive framework that is expected to be more helpful in comprehending processes of Americanization than the paradigms that are prevalent today. Chapter seven elaborates the theoretical framework for analyzing Americanization abroad, and conceptualizes the processes concerned in terms of power relations, distinguishing various units of analysis and charting the major avenues through which American influences are conveyed abroad, introduced into foreign contexts, and acted upon by local recipients. It concentrates on the export side of Americanization, and historicizes the framework by offering a periodization of American influence abroad. Chapter eight completes the framework by going into more conceptual detail regarding the reception of American influence. It also considers possible functions and effects of Americanization when trying to make assessments of specific cases. The final chapter offers an in-depth analysis of the intertwinement of Americanization and corporate globalization at the turn of the twenty-first century. First it examines current theorizing on globalization, which is characterized by an overriding tendency to reject the whole notion of Americanization. It is argued that these theorists have thrown the proverbial baby out with the bath water, namely an interest in America's persisting strong influence in many domains globally. Yet, it is also recognized that one has to move beyond a state-centrist approach in order to adequately grasp the significantly increased influence of transnational corporations over the past few decades. Therefore next this chapter explores the major ways in which transnational corporations - in relation to U.S.-dominated, international governance - spread capitalist modernity worldwide. An attempt is made to explain how U.S. business leaders and affiliated political power-holders still manage to set the agenda of much of the global economy and why many of their foreign counterparts have adopted similar neoliberal policies. The chapter concludes with a discussion of the historical contingency of the American face of much of corporate globalization and then also looks at possible transformations by a transnational coalition of countervailing powers. About the Author Mel van Elteren is an associate professor of social sciences at Tilburg University, The Netherlands. He is an editorial board member of the Journal of American Culture, Journal of Popular Culture and Popular Music and Society. He has published extensively on a wide variety of topics regarding theory and history of the social sciences, cultural sociology, social history and American studies. _______________________________________________ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Fri Aug 25 10:34:37 2006 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:34:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] One by Les Murray Message-ID: <202DC68C-A128-4D25-900A-186A26E15215@ripon.edu> Folklore What are the sights of our town ? Well, there is that skeleton they hang some nights in the bar of the Rest and everyone laughing in whispers the barmaid broke down one time, laughing. The cord goes up through the ceiling to the undersprings of the big white bed in the Honeymoon Suite and when those bones even jiggle there's cheers (and a donnybrook once) and when they joggle, there's whooping and folk stalking out in emotions and when the dance-- hoo, when they dance! he knows every tune on the honeymoon flute, does the hollow-hipped fellow. There are a few, mind, who drink on straight through it all. Steady drinkers. Up over the pub there's the sky full of stars, as I have reflected outside, while guiding the course of my thoughts. Some say there's a larger cord goes up there, but I doubt it I mean but then I'm no dancer. Besides that, there's meatworks and mines. --Les Murray. The Vernacular Republic: Selected Poems. Persea Books, 1982. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Aug 25 10:50:12 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:50:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events References: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com> <585D0E6B-BE9A-4F1A-8D46-BAC5580FC37F@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <005001c6c855$c86893f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> A little nervous about the notion that one has to throw Billy Collins into the mix before one can evaluate Kooser. But I agree that at his best, he creates visual images that resonate. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lawrence To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events What's the attitude to Ted Kooser's work among this group? I find the best of his poems have the ability to stop me in my tracks. His imagery can be astounding. I think he leaves someone like Billy Collins in a dustcloud. On 25/08/2006, at 4:45 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5 -- The 10th Planet Every night they wheel out the great siege gun of Palomar trying to bring down the walls of darkness surrounding a tenth planet. Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto where the Sun's gravitational empire begins to fray and fall apart. The tenth planet that might be the foreshadowing of what our world could become, a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped and left for dead as progress grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing martial law, torturers and detention camps, the missiles and minarets, borders closed with sutures of barbwire. Remember that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, the sword and gunpowder, smallpox and syphilis. Always religions go awry, creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, something, responsible for bad weather or blindness, for wars and total eclipses of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, its face in the little handmirror of the universe that rests at the base of the telescope, it won't tell us anything. A face marked by craters and half-hidden in shadow. It won't look at us, it will turn away. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fssam6 at uaf.edu Fri Aug 25 13:25:23 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:25:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events In-Reply-To: <005001c6c855$c86893f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com> <585D0E6B-BE9A-4F1A-8D46-BAC5580FC37F@bigpond.com> <005001c6c855$c86893f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <80BC9D0A-0679-4FF4-81C8-6265458882BF@uaf.edu> I have a personal grudge against Mr. Collins, so the comparison of him with any poet puts the latter on a pedestal. Kooser's a good poet, though I wouldn't jump in to putting him among the ranks of poetic genius. He has a few poems that sock me in the stomach, but overall, the jury is still out for me. I may be heading to Nebraska for my PhD, so that may have an affect on my opinion in the future. On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:50 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > A little nervous about the notion that one has to throw Billy > Collins into the mix before one can evaluate Kooser. But I agree > that at his best, he creates visual images that resonate. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anthony Lawrence > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:39 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events > > What's the attitude to Ted Kooser's work among this group? I find > the best of his poems have the ability > to stop me in my tracks. His imagery can be astounding. I think he > leaves someone like Billy Collins > in a dustcloud. > > > On 25/08/2006, at 4:45 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5 >> >> -- >> The 10th Planet >> >> >> Every night they wheel out >> the great siege gun of Palomar >> trying to bring down the walls of darkness >> surrounding a tenth planet. >> Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto >> where the Sun's gravitational empire >> begins to fray and fall apart. >> The tenth planet that might be >> the foreshadowing of what our world could become, >> a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped >> and left for dead as progress >> grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, >> bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when >> we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing >> martial law, torturers and detention camps, >> the missiles and minarets, borders closed >> with sutures of barbwire. Remember >> that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves >> were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. >> But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, >> Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God >> destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- >> Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, >> the sword and gunpowder, smallpox >> and syphilis. Always religions go awry, >> creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, >> something, responsible for bad weather >> or blindness, for wars and total eclipses >> of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, >> its face in the little handmirror of the universe >> that rests at the base of the telescope, >> it won't tell us anything. A face marked >> by craters and half-hidden in shadow. >> It won't look at us, it will turn away. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 25 13:54:16 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:54:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New anthropology books from University of Minnesota Press Message-ID: <012501c6c86f$7b91b6f0$868d3052@ANNY> New anthropology books from University of Minnesota Press ----- Original Message ----- From: Stacy Lienemann To: University of Minnesota Press Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: New anthropology books from University of Minnesota Press ALIENHOOD: Citizenship, Exile, and the Logic of Difference Katarzyna Marciniak University of Minnesota Press | 272 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4576-0 | hardcover | $67.50 ISBN 0-8166-4577-9 | paperback | $22.50 A timely and critical understanding of transnational culture. Interrogating the dominant images of aliens in American popular culture, Katarzyna Marciniak examines "alienhood" and the impact it has on the daily experiences of migrants, legal or illegal. Using examples from exilic literature and cinema, including the works of Julia Alvarez, Eva Hoffman, Gregory Nava, and Roman Polanski, Alienhood theorizes multicultural experiences of liminal characters that belong in the interstices between nations. "Katarzyna Marciniak effectively combines telling examples from popular culture and a sophisticated theoretical framework to explain the representation and history of 'foreignness' in the U.S. imagination." -Julia Lesage For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/M/marciniak_alienhood.html A POSTCAPITALIST POLITICS J. K. Gibson-Graham University of Minnesota Press | 360 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4803-4 | hardcover | $75.00 ISBN 0-8166-4804-2 | paperback | $25.00 Presents compelling alternatives to capitalism-and strategies for achieving them. In this creatively argued follow-up to their book The End of Capitalism (As We Knew It), J. K. Gibson-Graham offer already existing alternatives to a global capitalist order and outline strategies for building alternative economies. A Postcapitalist Politics reveals a prolific landscape of economic diversity-one that is not exclusively or predominantly capitalist-and examines the challenges and successes of alternative economic interventions. "The focus is on what local groups can do 'here and now' to develop non-capitalist relations without waiting for the system as a whole to be overthrown." -Journal of Australian Political Economy For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/G/gibson_postcapitalist.html THE END OF CAPITALISM (AS WE KNEW IT): A Feminist Critique of Political Economy J. K. Gibson-Graham University of Minnesota Press | 316 pages | 2006 ISBN 0-8166-4805-0 | paperback | $25.00 The classic text on representations of capitalism and their political effects-with a new introduction. In the mid-1990s, at the height of discussion about the inevitability of capitalist globalization, J. K. Gibson-Graham presented a groundbreaking argument for envisioning alternative economies. This new edition includes an introduction in which the authors address critical responses to The End of Capitalism and outline the economic research and activism they have been engaged in since the book was first published. "Provocative and optimistic. The great merit of The End of Capitalism is to show that there are and can be different conceptions of capitalism-not only of the big Capitalism that we on the Left have long carried around but also of smaller capitalism, different capitalism, alongside which many forms of noncapitalism can be envisioned, created, and strengthened." -David F. Ruccio, Rethinking Marxism "Creative and fun to read. It deserves a wide audience not only for deconstructing capitalism but for exemplifying how to practice deconstruction on the 'real world' with a sense of humor." -Theory and Event "Filled with insights, it is clearly written and well supported with good examples of actual, deconstructive practices." -International Journal of Urban and Regional Research For more information, including the table of contents, visit the book's webpage: http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/G/gibson_end.html For information about examination copies, view our exam copy policy online: http://www.upress.umn.edu/ordering/examination.html For more anthropology books, visit our website: http://www.upress.umn.edu/bysubject/anthropology.html You are signed up for University of Minnesota Press E-news. If you wish to be removed from this list, please email lieneman at umn.edu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 11830 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 4625 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 8750 bytes Desc: not available URL: From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Fri Aug 25 17:46:39 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:46:39 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New anthropology books from University of Minnesota Press In-Reply-To: <200605291600.k4TG04M5028238@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Reading this title, I thought this was an email from an anthropology list I'm on - but I like the University of Minnesota Press. They publish a lot of Deleuze & their latin american studies books are good too/. this book Insect Poetics is perhaps a must.... http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/B/brown_insect.html Edmund. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 25 18:24:39 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:24:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] ALLEN BRAMHALL Message-ID: <019201c6c895$41792ae0$868d3052@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: anny.ballardini at tin.it Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:49 PM Subject: [NarcissusWorks] ALLEN BRAMHALL [http://www.tribute-airy.blogspot.com/] REVIEWS MY opening and closing numbers! first review ever! thank you Allen_ didn't even tell me he was doing the hard work, and a thank you to Eileen for her Galatea Resurrects, and for, and for, and for... XXXXXXXX??????????///// -- Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 8/25/2006 11:42:00 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 25 18:50:25 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:50:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New anthropology books from University ofMinnesota Press References: Message-ID: <01b401c6c898$dbb711f0$868d3052@ANNY> I was more into reading the sense of estrangement, exile, and the logic of difference than the anthropological content advertised; in what the author, K. Marciniak calls "alienhood" and continuing: Alienhood theorizes multicultural experiences of liminal characters that belong in the interstices between nations. They also offer Debord, and many more. I am surprised at the quantity of books they publish. From: "Edmund Hardy" To: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:46 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New anthropology books from University ofMinnesota Press > Reading this title, I thought this was an email from an anthropology list > I'm on - but > > I like the University of Minnesota Press. > > They publish a lot of Deleuze & their latin american studies books are > good too/. > > this book Insect Poetics is perhaps a must.... > > http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/B/brown_insect.html > > Edmund. > > From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Fri Aug 25 19:20:24 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:20:24 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: New anthropology books from University ofMinnesota Press In-Reply-To: <200608251600.k7PG05EJ028922@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: this could be the manifesto for Alien Poetics ... >They also offer Debord, and many more. I am surprised at the quantity of books they publish. Minnesota, Princeton, Yale - they all chuck out a bewildering amount of fascinating sounding books - and I haven't finished the Princeton book, "Dining posture in Ancient Rome" yet. E. I was more into reading the sense of estrangement, exile, and the logic of difference than the anthropological content advertised; in what the author, K. Marciniak calls "alienhood" and continuing: Alienhood theorizes multicultural experiences of liminal characters that belong in the interstices between nations. From mkjeevesboston at yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 19:34:37 2006 From: mkjeevesboston at yahoo.com (mk jeeves) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Submissions Message-ID: <20060825233437.99010.qmail@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Would like to send along some work for your consideration. Anything that I need to know about that process? Respectfully, John Byland --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkjeevesboston at yahoo.com Sat Aug 26 06:30:00 2006 From: mkjeevesboston at yahoo.com (mk jeeves) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 03:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] submissions Message-ID: <20060826103000.27623.qmail@web30213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, Any particular protocol for submissions? This is still a bit of an unknown territory for me. Thanks, John Byland --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Aug 26 06:39:57 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:39:57 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events References: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com><585D0E6B-BE9A-4F1A-8D46-BAC5580FC37F@bigpond.com><005001c6c855$c86893f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <80BC9D0A-0679-4FF4-81C8-6265458882BF@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <002801c6c8fb$faf56310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Only opinion based on the only Kooser poem I have seen: a drone. Bored in the bar Best dave ----- Original Message ----- From: steve moore To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events I have a personal grudge against Mr. Collins, so the comparison of him with any poet puts the latter on a pedestal. Kooser's a good poet, though I wouldn't jump in to putting him among the ranks of poetic genius. He has a few poems that sock me in the stomach, but overall, the jury is still out for me. I may be heading to Nebraska for my PhD, so that may have an affect on my opinion in the future. On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:50 AM, TheOldMole wrote: A little nervous about the notion that one has to throw Billy Collins into the mix before one can evaluate Kooser. But I agree that at his best, he creates visual images that resonate. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Lawrence To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events What's the attitude to Ted Kooser's work among this group? I find the best of his poems have the ability to stop me in my tracks. His imagery can be astounding. I think he leaves someone like Billy Collins in a dustcloud. On 25/08/2006, at 4:45 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5 -- The 10th Planet Every night they wheel out the great siege gun of Palomar trying to bring down the walls of darkness surrounding a tenth planet. Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto where the Sun's gravitational empire begins to fray and fall apart. The tenth planet that might be the foreshadowing of what our world could become, a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped and left for dead as progress grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing martial law, torturers and detention camps, the missiles and minarets, borders closed with sutures of barbwire. Remember that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, the sword and gunpowder, smallpox and syphilis. Always religions go awry, creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, something, responsible for bad weather or blindness, for wars and total eclipses of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, its face in the little handmirror of the universe that rests at the base of the telescope, it won't tell us anything. A face marked by craters and half-hidden in shadow. It won't look at us, it will turn away. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Sat Aug 26 08:31:29 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:31:29 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Submissions In-Reply-To: <200608251600.k7PG05EJ028922@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: John, In general - I think its really just: 1. Follow closely any submissions guidelines 2. Get an idea of what the particular editor likes, what the magazine has published before, though this shouldn't rule out surprising them or sending something out of place. 3. The process of submitting poems requires a tough skin and a long term dedication to the work. Edmund From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat Aug 26 09:35:40 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:35:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Submissions In-Reply-To: <20060825233437.99010.qmail@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060825233437.99010.qmail@web30208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0608260635n5338857n583cea7d09a1e267@mail.gmail.com> John, If you're talking about "submitting" to this NewPoetry List, there is no real protocol. I think that the list owner, Jim Finnegan, has suggested that we limit posting our own material to once or twice a month. Is that right, Jim? NewPoetry is primarily a discussion list--we talk about and argue about and sometimes fight about comtemporary poetry & poetics. If you want to start a topic, just jump right in. If you're talking about submitting to a journal or a magazine, every editor is different. Most of them ask for 3-5 poems and a short cover letter with a bio. As Edmund Hardy pointed out, you have to develop a thick skin. There are scores and scores of poets out there and all of them want to be published. You'll have to keep on sending out and keep on waiting. Sometimes, you'll find a journal or website with an editor who likes your work. More than often, you won't. Best of luck to you. I hope that this answers your question. Yours, Jeff Newberry On 8/25/06, mk jeeves wrote: > > Would like to send along some work for your consideration. Anything that > I need to know about that process? > > Respectfully, > > John Byland > > ------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invitedto try the new Yahoo! Mail. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Don't take your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home." --Johnny Cash http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 26 10:51:48 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:51:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <002801c6c8fb$faf56310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <26b.7275a380.321f4dcb@aol.com><585D0E6B-BE9A-4F1A-8D46-BAC5580FC37F@bigpond.com><005001c6c855$c86893f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <80BC9D0A-0679-4FF4-81C8-6265458882BF@uaf.edu> <002801c6c8fb$faf56310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: I recommend Dana Gioia's essay on Kooser published in his *Can Poetry Matter?* collection. (Incidentally, to my mind, Gioia's best at this sort of thing--not making broad-brush cultural pronouncements, but digging in on individual authors. His pieces on Kees, Kooser, Justice, and Stevens are the best thing in his book, I'd say.) Took me a good while to appreciate Kooser properly. His poetry is almost militantly modest. There's never the slightest dash or dazzle, but he's very good at a sort of quiet metaphoric reflectiveness and descriptive accuracy. Gioia says it better than I can! Here are a couple lyrics from *Sure Signs*, his selected poems, followed by a newer piece-- Beer Bottle In the burned- out highway ditch the throw- away beer bottle lands standing up unbroken, like a cat thrown off of a roof to kill it, landing hard and dazzled in the sun, right side up; sort of a miracle. -------------- At the Bait Stand Part barn, part boxcar, part of a chicken shed, part leaking water, part something dead, part pop machine, part gas pump, part a chair leaned back against a wall, and sleeping there, part-owner Herman Runner, mostly fat, hip-waders, undershirt, tattoos and hat. --Ted Kooser. Sure Signs: New & Selected Poems. U Pittsburgh. ============= Heat Lightning At the horizon, July in heavy boots paces the hot floor of the darkness. A bulb in a wobbly lamp jiggles. Or is that you, my love, approaching across the firefly hills, swinging a sloshing pail of moonlight? --Ted Kooser. Smartish Pace, 2005. On Aug 26, 2006, at 5:39 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Only opinion based on the only Kooser poem I have seen: > > a drone. > > Bored in the bar > > Best > > dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: steve moore > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:25 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events > > I have a personal grudge against Mr. Collins, so the comparison of > him with any poet puts the latter on a pedestal. Kooser's a good > poet, though I wouldn't jump in to putting him among the ranks of > poetic genius. He has a few poems that sock me in the stomach, but > overall, the jury is still out for me. I may be heading to Nebraska > for my PhD, so that may have an affect on my opinion in the future. > > On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:50 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> A little nervous about the notion that one has to throw Billy >> Collins into the mix before one can evaluate Kooser. But I agree >> that at his best, he creates visual images that resonate. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Anthony Lawrence >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views >> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events >> >> What's the attitude to Ted Kooser's work among this group? I find >> the best of his poems have the ability >> to stop me in my tracks. His imagery can be astounding. I think he >> leaves someone like Billy Collins >> in a dustcloud. >> >> >> On 25/08/2006, at 4:45 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5 >>> >>> -- >>> The 10th Planet >>> >>> >>> Every night they wheel out >>> the great siege gun of Palomar >>> trying to bring down the walls of darkness >>> surrounding a tenth planet. >>> Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto >>> where the Sun's gravitational empire >>> begins to fray and fall apart. >>> The tenth planet that might be >>> the foreshadowing of what our world could become, >>> a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped >>> and left for dead as progress >>> grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, >>> bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when >>> we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing >>> martial law, torturers and detention camps, >>> the missiles and minarets, borders closed >>> with sutures of barbwire. Remember >>> that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves >>> were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. >>> But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, >>> Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God >>> destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- >>> Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, >>> the sword and gunpowder, smallpox >>> and syphilis. Always religions go awry, >>> creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, >>> something, responsible for bad weather >>> or blindness, for wars and total eclipses >>> of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, >>> its face in the little handmirror of the universe >>> that rests at the base of the telescope, >>> it won't tell us anything. A face marked >>> by craters and half-hidden in shadow. >>> It won't look at us, it will turn away. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 26 11:04:30 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:04:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: If we can leave Gioia out of it for a minute... I find Kooser's work to be bracing in chunks. I wouldn't want a steady diet of it, nor of most poets I enjoy. I had a chance to hear him read last spring and came away with a new liking for his work. There's a scrupulousness of observation in his work that really picks my ears up. I like the militant modesty (great phrase, David) of his poems but do sometiems wish he would swing for the fences. Sometimes reading a poem of his is like watching a very good athlete go at half-speed. you keep hoping for a flash of something more. Al In a message dated 8/26/2006 10:52:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: I recommend Dana Gioia's essay on Kooser published in his *Can Poetry Matter?* collection. (Incidentally, to my mind, Gioia's best at this sort of thing--not making broad-brush cultural pronouncements, but digging in on individual authors. His pieces on Kees, Kooser, Justice, and Stevens are the best thing in his book, I'd say.) Took me a good while to appreciate Kooser properly. His poetry is almost militantly modest. There's never the slightest dash or dazzle, but he's very good at a sort of quiet metaphoric reflectiveness and descriptive accuracy. Gioia says it better than I can! Here are a couple lyrics from *Sure Signs*, his selected poems, followed by a newer piece-- Beer Bottle In the burned- out highway ditch the throw- away beer bottle lands standing up unbroken, like a cat thrown off of a roof to kill it, landing hard and dazzled in the sun, right side up; sort of a miracle. -------------- At the Bait Stand Part barn, part boxcar, part of a chicken shed, part leaking water, part something dead, part pop machine, part gas pump, part a chair leaned back against a wall, and sleeping there, part-owner Herman Runner, mostly fat, hip-waders, undershirt, tattoos and hat. --Ted Kooser. Sure Signs: New & Selected Poems. U Pittsburgh. ============= Heat Lightning At the horizon, July in heavy boots paces the hot floor of the darkness. A bulb in a wobbly lamp jiggles. Or is that you, my love, approaching across the firefly hills, swinging a sloshing pail of moonlight? --Ted Kooser. Smartish Pace, 2005. On Aug 26, 2006, at 5:39 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: Only opinion based on the only Kooser poem I have seen: a drone. Bored in the bar Best dave ----- Original Message ----- From: _steve moore_ (mailto:fssam6 at uaf.edu) To: _NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views_ (mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events I have a personal grudge against Mr. Collins, so the comparison of him with any poet puts the latter on a pedestal. Kooser's a good poet, though I wouldn't jump in to putting him among the ranks of poetic genius. He has a few poems that sock me in the stomach, but overall, the jury is still out for me. I may be heading to Nebraska for my PhD, so that may have an affect on my opinion in the future. On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:50 AM, TheOldMole wrote: A little nervous about the notion that one has to throw Billy Collins into the mix before one can evaluate Kooser. But I agree that at his best, he creates visual images that resonate. ----- Original Message ----- From: _Anthony Lawrence_ (mailto:ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com) To: _NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views_ (mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] old poem made obsolete by current events What's the attitude to Ted Kooser's work among this group? I find the best of his poems have the ability to stop me in my tracks. His imagery can be astounding. I think he leaves someone like Billy Collins in a dustcloud. On 25/08/2006, at 4:45 AM, _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) wrote: Astronomers strip Pluto of its planet status _http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5_ (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060824/sc_nm/science_planets_dc_5) -- The 10th Planet Every night they wheel out the great siege gun of Palomar trying to bring down the walls of darkness surrounding a tenth planet. Out beyond Neptune and the orbit of Pluto where the Sun's gravitational empire begins to fray and fall apart. The tenth planet that might be the foreshadowing of what our world could become, a denatured earth, clear-cut, stripped and left for dead as progress grinds on into deserts of sawdust and slag, bonemeal and unarable sand. Or when we turn on each other, petty tyrants imposing martial law, torturers and detention camps, the missiles and minarets, borders closed with sutures of barbwire. Remember that at its height as many as ten-thousand slaves were sacrificed in a single year to some Aztec sun-god. But a reign of centuries can end in a hundred days, Cortez with his gold lust and upper-case God destroyed that civilization founded on carnage-- Comes now the conquistador with horses and crosses, the sword and gunpowder, smallpox and syphilis. Always religions go awry, creating god out of fear and the need to make someone, something, responsible for bad weather or blindness, for wars and total eclipses of the sun. And when they find that tenth planet, its face in the little handmirror of the universe that rests at the base of the telescope, it won't tell us anything. A face marked by craters and half-hidden in shadow. It won't look at us, it will turn away. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list _New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list _New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list _New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list _New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list _New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) _http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry_ (http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry) ========================================== David Graham _grahamd at ripon.edu_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu) Home Page: _http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html_ (http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html) Poetry Library: _http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html_ (http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html) ========================================== = _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 26 12:40:32 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:40:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: Message-ID: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and other poet laureates might be? The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about major since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not Ginsberg. I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I respect would rate him major. So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer on this, not a commentator.) --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 13:04:36 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:04:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <84A5325B-1907-4516-80C6-86DCBE1620EB@earthlink.net> List-makers arise! We need more than one list. We needs lists of major major poets and minor major poets and major minor poets and minor minor poets. Then we'll get on to the lists that count. Hal "The bacon too carries on its modest love affair." --Tony Towle Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 26, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get praised > at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, whom I > recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. > Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. > Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me > wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be > considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as > one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and > other poet laureates might be? > > The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets > we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who > of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 > seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? > > I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about major > since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not Ginsberg. > I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept him as major > because so many people whose opinions about poets I respect would > rate him major. > > So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a > debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer > on this, not a commentator.) > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Aug 26 13:17:10 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:17:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <84A5325B-1907-4516-80C6-86DCBE1620EB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <012c01c6c933$774df2b0$bfdf3052@ANNY> In duo in a quatrain, solo cellos swinging waltz cha cha cha with cooler jazz only choir voices voices techno-metered measures pitched stitched that is how we want 'em grilled and in a quartet From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 7:04 PM List-makers arise! We need more than one list. We needs lists of major major poets and minor major poets and major minor poets and minor minor poets. Then we'll get on to the lists that count. Hal "The bacon too carries on its modest love affair." --Tony Towle Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 26 14:06:52 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:06:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <84A5325B-1907-4516-80C6-86DCBE1620EB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005f01c6c93a$6c054a50$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> List-makers arise! We need more than one list. We needs lists of major major poets and minor major poets and major minor poets and minor minor poets. Then we'll get on to the lists that count. Hal Oops, I forgot. No evaluation allowed. Except the evaluation of lists and terminology and analysis and discrimination and taxonomies, etc., as valueless. --Grumman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fssam6 at uaf.edu Sat Aug 26 16:45:16 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:45:16 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as major. As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist). On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get praised > at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, whom I > recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. > Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. > Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me > wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be > considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as > one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and > other poet laureates might be? > > The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets > we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who > of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 > seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? > > I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about major > since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not Ginsberg. > I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept him as major > because so many people whose opinions about poets I respect would > rate him major. > > So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a > debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer > on this, not a commentator.) > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 17:13:30 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:13:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <005f01c6c93a$6c054a50$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <84A5325B-1907-4516-80C6-86DCBE1620EB@earthlink.net> <005f01c6c93a$6c054a50$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <11605B9A-4E78-41C7-B8B0-D76293E223E6@earthlink.net> Allowed? Certainly. Valueless? Probably. Interesting? Some days. Necessary? Never. Hal "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you're doing tomorrow." --Michael Judge, Chaplain, NYFD Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 26, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > List-makers arise! We need more than one list. We needs lists of > major major poets and minor major poets and major minor poets and > minor minor poets. Then > we'll get on to the lists that count. > > Hal > > Oops, I forgot. No evaluation allowed. Except the evaluation of > lists and terminology and analysis and discrimination and > taxonomies, etc., as valueless. > > --Grumman > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 26 17:57:08 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:57:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <007801c6c95a$97affa90$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in a > list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as major. > > As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one exception, > Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college classrooms 200 years > from now (if college classrooms still exist). I'd go with Berryman, too. I'mn sure there are a few like him I didn't think of. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 26 18:03:12 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:03:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><84A5325B-1907-4516-80C6-86DCBE1620EB@earthlink.net><005f01c6c93a$6c054a50$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <11605B9A-4E78-41C7-B8B0-D76293E223E6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008201c6c95b$6e0f2110$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Allowed? Certainly. Valueless? Probably. Interesting? Some days. Necessary? Never. Hal Sorry, Hal, but necessary or not, we can't not list things. You only consider others' lists (probably) valueless--because, ultimately, you don't want your lists contradicted. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 26 18:05:33 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:05:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> Larry Levis, I would argue, was/ is major. Li-Young Lee is a bit too soft-edged and sentimental for me. I would argue, along with Peter Davison, that James Dickey's work from 1957-67 was major and that Robert Lowell is major. Bishop. Heaney. Have we defined major? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 26 18:40:09 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:40:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> Message-ID: <009101c6c960$97ff4450$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Larry Levis, I would argue, was/ is major. Li-Young Lee is a bit too soft-edged and sentimental for me. I would argue, along with Peter Davison, that James Dickey's work from 1957-67 was major and that Robert Lowell is major. Bishop. Heaney. Have we defined major? Al M. No, and I don't think we should. I was thinking of just a list ofpoets each of us thinks is major. I specified American, but no matter. (I've never heard of either Lewis or Lee, by the way.) --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Aug 26 18:53:55 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:53:55 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> <009101c6c960$97ff4450$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <001801c6c962$836ec310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> I think, Bob, with all due respect, that you have defined boredom. Robert Lowell, yes, occasionally edged on the 'major', as it were, so too did Bishop or does Heaney. But not really there. A touchstone for a major poet: John Donne. Note: not a 'great' poet, in English they be Shakespeare, Milton and Chaucer. Other poets have written great poems of course, like Blake or Hopkins. End of story. Bored in the Bar Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Larry Levis, I would argue, was/ is major. Li-Young Lee is a bit too soft-edged and sentimental for me. I would argue, along with Peter Davison, that James Dickey's work from 1957-67 was major and that Robert Lowell is major. Bishop. Heaney. Have we defined major? Al M. No, and I don't think we should. I was thinking of just a list ofpoets each of us thinks is major. I specified American, but no matter. (I've never heard of either Lewis or Lee, by the way.) --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Aug 26 19:05:14 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 18:05:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <008201c6c95b$6e0f2110$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><84A5325B-1907-4516-80C6-86DCBE1620EB@earthlink.net><005f01c6c93a$6c054a50$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <11605B9A-4E78-41C7-B8B0-D76293E223E6@earthlink.net> <008201c6c95b$6e0f2110$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <85B2F321-99F8-431B-83B2-4B812CCD3279@earthlink.net> I don't even do to-do lists. My wife takes care of those for us. I do list poems occasionally and sometimes like those of others. I don't do name lists, top-40 or even top-400 lists. Hal "We don't serve fine wine in half-pints, buddy." --Robert Ashley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 26, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Allowed? Certainly. Valueless? Probably. Interesting? > Some days. Necessary? Never. > > Hal > > Sorry, Hal, but necessary or not, we can't not list things. You > only consider others' lists (probably) valueless--because, > ultimately, you don't want your lists contradicted. > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Sat Aug 26 19:30:13 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:30:13 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Bob, you raise some interesting points. Personally I don't think in terms of major or minor, simply who is it whose voice makes me want to read more, who stops me in my tracks. Richard Hugo deserves a place among the greats of American poetry. Reading through his _Making Certain it Goes On_ Collected, I'm left laid open and in awe of the man's ability to change my way of seeing the (natural) world especially. That he wrote in such a tight, metrical form becomes almost invisible, such is his marriage of craft and imagination. Much the same could be said of Muldoon, whose rhyming, at its best, does not weigh heavily on the ear. So Hugo, the best of James Wright, and Sexton could be incredible. On 27/08/2006, at 2:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get praised > at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, whom I > recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. > Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. > Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me > wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be > considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as > one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and > other poet laureates might be? > > The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets > we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who > of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 > seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? > > I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about major > since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not Ginsberg. > I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept him as major > because so many people whose opinions about poets I respect would > rate him major. > > So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a > debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer > on this, not a commentator.) > > --Bob G. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Sat Aug 26 19:31:37 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:31:37 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> Berryman is definitely there with the greats of American poet, from that time or any other. On 27/08/2006, at 6:45 AM, steve moore wrote: > I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in > a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as major. > > As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one > exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college > classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist). > > > On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get >> praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, >> whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. >> Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. >> Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me >> wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be >> considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as >> one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and >> other poet laureates might be? >> >> The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets >> we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who >> of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 >> seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? >> >> I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about >> major since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not >> Ginsberg. I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept >> him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I >> respect would rate him major. >> >> So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a >> debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer >> on this, not a commentator.) >> >> --Bob G. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Sat Aug 26 19:40:02 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:40:02 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> References: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> Message-ID: I'm reading Christopher Dickey's memoir of his father. It's a fine book, and painful to read. James Dickey comes across as a complex, difficult, belligerent man. A wonderful poet whose private life was, for the most part, in shreds. Still, who'd listen to Dylan or Lou Reed, or look at Picasso if morals were the foundation for interest. On 27/08/2006, at 8:05 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Larry Levis, I would argue, was/ is major. Li-Young Lee is a bit > too soft-edged and sentimental for me. I would argue, along with > Peter Davison, that James Dickey's work from 1957-67 was major and > that Robert Lowell is major. Bishop. Heaney. > > Have we defined major? > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Aug 26 20:32:17 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:32:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Dear me, this is getting to the verge of the nonsensical: I like Berryman's poems, BUT he had a flat ear, I believe that was due to deafness in one lughole, his writing was also derivative, certainly in the early years, the ghost of the still then living Auden leaned over his shoulder, academic, his writing is often as college style as Sylvia Plath's early work etc etc. A lovely presence in literary history, yes, but a great poet, no, nor was Richard Hugo, although he wrote some beauties too. Touchstone definitions of a great poet and a major poet: Dante was the former, Calvalcanti the latter. Bored in the Bar Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Lawrence" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Berryman is definitely there with the greats of American poet, from > that time or any other. > > > On 27/08/2006, at 6:45 AM, steve moore wrote: > > > I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in > > a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as major. > > > > As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one > > exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college > > classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist). > > > > > > On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > >> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get > >> praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, > >> whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. > >> Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. > >> Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me > >> wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be > >> considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as > >> one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and > >> other poet laureates might be? > >> > >> The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets > >> we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who > >> of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 > >> seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? > >> > >> I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about > >> major since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not > >> Ginsberg. I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept > >> him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I > >> respect would rate him major. > >> > >> So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a > >> debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer > >> on this, not a commentator.) > >> > >> --Bob G. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Sat Aug 26 20:34:31 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:34:31 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> I don't know how anyone can say Berryman had a flat ear, especially when considering the Dream Songs. Derivative? I think not. On 27/08/2006, at 10:32 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Dear me, this is getting to the verge of the nonsensical: I like > Berryman's > poems, BUT he had a flat ear, I believe that was due to deafness in > one > lughole, his writing was also derivative, certainly in the early > years, the > ghost of the still then living Auden leaned over his shoulder, > academic, his > writing is often as college style as Sylvia Plath's early work etc > etc. > A lovely presence in literary history, yes, but a great poet, no, > nor was > Richard Hugo, although he wrote some beauties too. > > Touchstone definitions of a great poet and a major poet: Dante was the > former, Calvalcanti the latter. > > Bored in the Bar > > Dave > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Lawrence" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:31 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > >> Berryman is definitely there with the greats of American poet, from >> that time or any other. >> >> >> On 27/08/2006, at 6:45 AM, steve moore wrote: >> >>> I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in >>> a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as >>> major. >>> >>> As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one >>> exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college >>> classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist). >>> >>> >>> On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >>> >>>> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get >>>> praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, >>>> whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. >>>> Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. >>>> Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me >>>> wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be >>>> considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as >>>> one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and >>>> other poet laureates might be? >>>> >>>> The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets >>>> we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who >>>> of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 >>>> seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? >>>> >>>> I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about >>>> major since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not >>>> Ginsberg. I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept >>>> him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I >>>> respect would rate him major. >>>> >>>> So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a >>>> debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer >>>> on this, not a commentator.) >>>> >>>> --Bob G. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From millb at aol.com Sat Aug 26 20:38:20 2006 From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:38:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? In-Reply-To: <012501c6c86f$7b91b6f0$868d3052@ANNY> References: <012501c6c86f$7b91b6f0$868d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <8C897883AF27958-1BC-4CA9@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Greetings, Here's yet another opportunity: what are the most influential publications and publishers in the poetry world these days? Today. Other than the obvious, Poetry, Kenyon Review, Copper Canyon, The New Yorker. . .I would love to hear list members' opinions on this topic. Cheers and happy late August Mill ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sat Aug 26 20:52:41 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 01:52:41 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, it's, erm, obvious. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Lawrence" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > I don't know how anyone can say Berryman had a flat ear, especially when > considering the Dream Songs. Derivative? I think not. > > > On 27/08/2006, at 10:32 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > > Dear me, this is getting to the verge of the nonsensical: I like > > Berryman's > > poems, BUT he had a flat ear, I believe that was due to deafness in > > one > > lughole, his writing was also derivative, certainly in the early > > years, the > > ghost of the still then living Auden leaned over his shoulder, > > academic, his > > writing is often as college style as Sylvia Plath's early work etc > > etc. > > A lovely presence in literary history, yes, but a great poet, no, > > nor was > > Richard Hugo, although he wrote some beauties too. > > > > Touchstone definitions of a great poet and a major poet: Dante was the > > former, Calvalcanti the latter. > > > > Bored in the Bar > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anthony Lawrence" > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > > > > >> Berryman is definitely there with the greats of American poet, from > >> that time or any other. > >> > >> > >> On 27/08/2006, at 6:45 AM, steve moore wrote: > >> > >>> I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be objective in > >>> a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as > >>> major. > >>> > >>> As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one > >>> exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college > >>> classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist). > >>> > >>> > >>> On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >>> > >>>> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get > >>>> praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald Westlake, > >>>> whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. > >>>> Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. > >>>> Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me > >>>> wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be > >>>> considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as > >>>> one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and > >>>> other poet laureates might be? > >>>> > >>>> The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets > >>>> we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: who > >>>> of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 > >>>> seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? > >>>> > >>>> I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about > >>>> major since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not > >>>> Ginsberg. I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept > >>>> him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I > >>>> respect would rate him major. > >>>> > >>>> So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to start a > >>>> debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer > >>>> on this, not a commentator.) > >>>> > >>>> --Bob G. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> New-Poetry mailing list > >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 26 21:01:32 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:01:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com><009101c6c960$97ff4450$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <001801c6c962$836ec310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <00c001c6c974$571ac7c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I think, Bob, with all due respect, that you have defined boredom. Didn't know I defined anything, Dave. Or are you talking about the list as boring--maybe because the poets eligible for it are wanting? Anyway, it's just a minor list I was interested in--and much more who others thought should be on it rather than who ought to be on it. --Bob Robert Lowell, yes, occasionally edged on the 'major', as it were, so too did Bishop or does Heaney. But not really there. A touchstone for a major poet: John Donne. Note: not a 'great' poet, in English they be Shakespeare, Milton and Chaucer. Other poets have written great poems of course, like Blake or Hopkins. End of story. Bored in the Bar Best Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Aug 26 21:02:49 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:02:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? References: <012501c6c86f$7b91b6f0$868d3052@ANNY> <8C897883AF27958-1BC-4CA9@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <007801c6c974$88f51430$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I think Able Muse is pretty important in its sphere. ----- Original Message ----- From: millb at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? Greetings, Here's yet another opportunity: what are the most influential publications and publishers in the poetry world these days? Today. Other than the obvious, Poetry, Kenyon Review, Copper Canyon, The New Yorker. . .I would love to hear list members' opinions on this topic. Cheers and happy late August Mill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sat Aug 26 21:06:33 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:06:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Re Berryman and Dream Songs: > Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, it's, erm, > obvious. dave -- Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the instance above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of [the] level [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the moment.) Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd place Berryman as a minor poet. Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne is major, Wyatt minor. R. From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Sat Aug 26 21:11:28 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:11:28 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <0631E26A-A130-4066-BE30-A4E6F27CCDDD@bigpond.com> A reading of poetics doesn't enter into my reading (as a reader, not a critic) of the Dream Songs or anything else. Not at the time. They work for me, musically and subliminally. > > Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, > it's, erm, > obvious. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Lawrence" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:34 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > >> I don't know how anyone can say Berryman had a flat ear, >> especially when >> considering the Dream Songs. Derivative? I think not. >> >> >> On 27/08/2006, at 10:32 AM, David Bircumshaw wrote: >> >>> Dear me, this is getting to the verge of the nonsensical: I like >>> Berryman's >>> poems, BUT he had a flat ear, I believe that was due to deafness in >>> one >>> lughole, his writing was also derivative, certainly in the early >>> years, the >>> ghost of the still then living Auden leaned over his shoulder, >>> academic, his >>> writing is often as college style as Sylvia Plath's early work etc >>> etc. >>> A lovely presence in literary history, yes, but a great poet, no, >>> nor was >>> Richard Hugo, although he wrote some beauties too. >>> >>> Touchstone definitions of a great poet and a major poet: Dante >>> was the >>> former, Calvalcanti the latter. >>> >>> Bored in the Bar >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Anthony Lawrence" >>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:31 AM >>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure >>> >>> >>>> Berryman is definitely there with the greats of American poet, from >>>> that time or any other. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 27/08/2006, at 6:45 AM, steve moore wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm too close to even the poets from that period to be >>>>> objective in >>>>> a list, however, I think John Berryman would certainly rank as >>>>> major. >>>>> >>>>> As far as contemporary poets, I really don't know, with one >>>>> exception, Li-Young Lee. I think he will be read in college >>>>> classrooms 200 years from now (if college classrooms still exist). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 26, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think Kooser and Collins and others at that level who get >>>>>> praised at New-Poetry are comparable in poetry to Donald >>>>>> Westlake, >>>>>> whom I recently got a stack of books by from a friend, in prose. >>>>>> Enjoyable to read. Admirable as craftsmen in many way. >>>>>> Intelligent. Etc. But not what I'd call major. Which makes me >>>>>> wonder: just who of poets now active in America should be >>>>>> considered a major poet? James recently described Goldbarth as >>>>>> one, which floored me. But why not, if Kooser and Collins and >>>>>> other poet laureates might be? >>>>>> >>>>>> The complaint will be that we're too close in time to the poets >>>>>> we're judging to judge properly. So let me shift the problem: >>>>>> who >>>>>> of the American poets coming to prominence between 1950 and 1975 >>>>>> seem to have been at the level of Frost and Stevens? >>>>>> >>>>>> I find it hard to rate any American poet academics know about >>>>>> major since Roethke. Maybe Wilbur. Maybe Frank O'Hara. Not >>>>>> Ginsberg. I don't think much of Ashbery but would have to accept >>>>>> him as major because so many people whose opinions about poets I >>>>>> respect would rate him major. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, who would be on such a list? (Note: I'm not trying to >>>>>> start a >>>>>> debate, just curious what names come up. So I'll be an observer >>>>>> on this, not a commentator.) >>>>>> >>>>>> --Bob G. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 26 23:04:49 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:04:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: <31d.91899d5.322265d1@aol.com> In a message dated 8/26/2006 8:52:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com writes: Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, it's, erm, obvious. So, David, any American poets you'd classify as major? When I say "major" by hte way, I'm speaking strictly for myself since we aren't drawing any lines. Which means that major is always changing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 26 23:05:24 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:05:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/26/2006 8:38:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, millb at aol.com writes: Greetings, Here's yet another opportunity: what are the most influential publications and publishers in the poetry world these days? Today. Other than the obvious, Poetry, Kenyon Review, Copper Canyon, The New Yorker. . .I would love to hear list members' opinions on this topic. Cheers and happy late August Mill Anyone who publishes me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sat Aug 26 23:06:43 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:06:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: <269.ef09599.32226643@aol.com> In a message dated 8/26/2006 9:02:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: I think, Bob, with all due respect, that you have defined boredom. Didn't know I defined anything, Dave. Or are you talking about the list as boring--maybe because the poets eligible for it are wanting? Anyway, it's just a minor list I was interested in--and much more who others thought should be on it rather than who ought to be on it. --Bob Robert Lowell, yes, occasionally edged on the 'major', as it were, so too did Bishop or does Heaney. But not really there. I think David thought you wrote my list, Bob. Not an easy mistake to make for anyone who knows your thoughts on poetry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 26 23:15:29 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:15:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Defining a major poet In-Reply-To: <001801c6c962$836ec310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> <009101c6c960$97ff4450$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <001801c6c962$836ec310$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <683EBCAB-FA70-4329-A1AB-4F1D8A9C8ED5@ripon.edu> Major "Can you tell me," I asked, "precisely what a major poet is?" "That's easy," he replied. "A major poet is any poet of major importance." ''What gives a major poet his major importance?" I pursued. "Is it a question of quality only, or does quantity enter in?" "It's mostly a matter of quality," he said. "Then why do people speak of a very fine minor poet?" "That would be a poet who wrote only very brief poems." "Oh, so quantity does enter in," I exclaimed, "quantity as to the individual poems if not as to the poet's total output. I suppose a fine poet who wrote only brief poems would have to be very fine indeed to be a major poet. " He looked at me with just a trace of irritation. "Now that you've made clear to me the difference between major and minor, I'd like to know where you draw the line between them. The line, say, between a grade-A poet who writes brief poems and a grade- B poet who writes long ones?" He cleared his throat. "You're making things too complicated." "But I thought things were complicated to start with!" I cried. --Robert Francis. Pot Shots at Poetry. U Michigan Press, 1980. ============================== On Aug 26, 2006, at 5:53 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > I think, Bob, with all due respect, that you have defined boredom. > Robert Lowell, yes, occasionally edged on the 'major', as it were, > so too did Bishop or does Heaney. But not really there. > A touchstone for a major poet: John Donne. Note: not a 'great' > poet, in English they be Shakespeare, Milton and Chaucer. Other > poets have written great poems of course, like Blake or Hopkins. > > End of story. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 26 23:19:52 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:19:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Levis's measure In-Reply-To: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> References: <495.80473a4.32221fad@aol.com> Message-ID: <712869A4-ED4B-4022-AA81-E9580F9770BD@ripon.edu> On Aug 26, 2006, at 5:05 PM, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > Larry Levis, I would argue, was/ is major. Al-- Larry Levis is one of those poets that so far I just can't "get," it seems. But people I respect often consider his work major. (Such as Philip Levine, who'd be on any shortlist of mine of best poets of his generation.) I'd love some help in knowing what it is that Levis fans are responding to. Can you say more about his stuff? And what are his best/strongest poems, do you think? ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 27 00:17:09 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:17:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card Message-ID: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> Definitional squabbles about major/minor do make me itchy, but I'm not averse to hearing which poets people most admire, and why. In fact I find such discussions often very intriguing. If you look at American poets born, say, in the 1920s, I think that just historically it becomes increasingly hard to find anything remotely like a consensus on who the big names are. And with such poets being in their 80s now, you'd think that time would have sorted things out a bit. Apparently not, to judge from the anthologies and critical journals, not to mention the spread of opinion on this list. It was once possible to speak of The Ages of Eliot, Auden, and Lowell. And few would deny the prominence of Frost and Stevens in their generation. Equally few today would argue for Cummings as major, which is one thing that's so charming about Bob Grumman's lonely quest. But, moving to younger figures, can we even agree on a fairly long short list among American poets born in the 1920s? Carruth? Creeley? Bly? Hugo? Spicer? Justice? Wilbur? Blackburn? Nemerov? Hecht? Dickey? Eigner? Kizer? Levertov (honorary American)? Stern? Dorn? Snodgrass? Ammons? Ginsberg? O'Hara? Ashbery? Merrill? Merwin? Kinnell? Rich? Sexton? Levine? James Wright? Dugan? Kumin? Koch? Hall? Most poets on that list have their passionate advocates, while being dismissed by others with shrugs or worse. When one moves into poets born in the 1930s and 1940s, of course, all hell breaks loose: more and more balkanization. I think we may well have moved, in the late twentieth century and beyond, into a period which future generations will consider rich in fine minor poets but lacking any commanding figures. But of course, no one knows. It's a crapshoot. The major/minor yardstick has always been a variable foot. Who knows?--maybe my ghost will be flabbergasted to learn, on my visits to earth, that I did in fact live in the Age of Ashbery. Lord help us. Personally, I'd be surprised though gratified if it turned out that future generations considered Robert Hayden major. But in any event I'll be long dead before that verdict is in. For whatever it's worth, my own ever-changing list of poets who've meant the most to me would include, from the above list, Hugo, Levertov, Levine, Wright, Bly, Justice, and O'Hara. Maybe Hugo above all, because such an early and deep influence on me. Lots of others older and younger, too, naturally. (Langston Hughes, Ignatow, Rexroth, Kunitz, Roethke, Bishop, Brooks, William Matthews, Hass, Simic, Edson, Rogers...) And enough time has passed so that my personal preferences sometimes are distinguishable from historical judgements. In some ways William Stafford (b. 1914) has been as important to me as anyone--but I kind of doubt that his reputation will last; I imagine that Lowell (b. 1917) will continue overshadowing him in death as he did in life. I couldn't argue very convincingly for Stafford's importance on anyone beyond me and other like-minded ones (you know, the ones who snort when someone like Spicer is put forth as major). And that's just looking at 20th Century Americans. If I were asked about Anglophone poets, I'd have to add Heaney, Walcott, Larkin, and others to my lists. Your list would be quite different, would it not? ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 27 01:30:57 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:30:57 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <082a01c6c99a$00932e30$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Just to pick up on one of the more than several interesting points to respond to in David Graham's post. << And that's just looking at 20th Century Americans. If I were asked about Anglophone poets, I'd have to add Heaney, Walcott, Larkin, and others to my lists. Your list would be quite different, would it not? >> It's that word "Anglophone" (nicely chosen, as Walcott isn't British, and even Heaney, technically British as he was born in *Northern Ireland, is part of a line that goes back through Patrick Kavanagh and Louis MacNeice to Yeats) and how it's not simply that the US and the UK are different places, but that in a sense it's impossible to map the divisions of one onto the other. "British Poetry" has always been a disputed concept, but more now than ever. Welsh and Scottish poetry (less so in Ireland, north or south, I think) have always split between Celtic language poetry and English. Sometimes, of course, the same poet will figure as writing in both -- Ian Crichton Smith, for example, writing in both Gaelic and English, more recently, Angus Nicolson (though there the choice of name, let's not start, begs a question) but usually poets are one or the other. Sorley McLean for the Gaeltacht, Hugh MacDiarmid for the "English". (And yes, then we're up against the English/Braid Scots divide as well, there.) But there isn't (or is there?) this major linguistic divide in USAmerican poetry. It's definitely not there in poetry written in England itself. Then the balkanisation of poetry (as I think David put it) -- I'd say in England this comes in the generation immediately after Auden. For better or worse (and in ways I prefer MacNeice), Auden simply is, by a major (but not universal) consensus, the central figure. Who even mentions Stephen Spender and C. Day Lewis seriously today? But if you narrow this down to Scotland, the "agreement" persists much later. I doubt if many would quarrel with the judgement that the greatest living Scottish poet is Edwin Morgan (partly by the very virtue of longevity, admittedly). If we run this back, there's not much argument (with one qualification) -- Hugh MacDiarmid was the central figure from the twenties on. After the next metaphorical generation, the Children of MacDiarmid, there's a relatively narrow range to pick from -- Norman McCaig, Ian Crichton Smith, Ian Hamilton Finlay (Bob Grumman will no doubt be happy to note), Edwin Morgan, and coming strongly from the back, W.S.Graham. Arguments, certainly, as to which of the five is "the best", but far fewer names in the frame than for the comparable generation of American poets (and not simply because there are, obviously, far fewer Scots than there are USAmericans -- St. Kitts is even smaller, and Wallacot not only bestrides that but the whole of Anglophone poetry like a colossus). There *is a haze around the generation immediately after MacDiarmid. Once it seemed that it would be Tom Scott or Sidney Goodsire Smith or ... I don't know whether it's settled that, really, the only significant Scottish poet around then was Robert Garrioch, but I suspect that's where it will end. It's not just a matter of "how long ago" -- it's easier to see what was "significant" later, from the fifties on. Right, I've said enough that's probably all of boring, contentious, and unintelligible (difficult to do all three at once), and there are lots of other issues raised by David's post that intrigue me, but that for now. Robin Hamilton From fssam6 at uaf.edu Sun Aug 27 01:51:13 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:51:13 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better poet (I say with a certain smugness). > Re Berryman and Dream Songs: > >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, >> it's, erm, >> obvious. > > dave -- > > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? > > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the > instance > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. > > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of > [the] level > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the > moment.) > > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd > place Berryman as a minor poet. > > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were > worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of > sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne > is major, Wyatt minor. > > R. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 27 01:55:06 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:55:06 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <083d01c6c99d$5fbe6700$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "steve moore" > Thus, Pound is a major > poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better > poet (I say with a certain smugness). Which one -- Dylan, Edward, or R.S.??? R. From fssam6 at uaf.edu Sun Aug 27 01:59:40 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:59:40 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <083d01c6c99d$5fbe6700$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <083d01c6c99d$5fbe6700$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: Sorry, I think of only one Thomas, and that is Dylan. On Aug 26, 2006, at 9:55 PM, Robin wrote: > From: "steve moore" > >> Thus, Pound is a major poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though >> clearly Thomas is the better poet (I say with a certain smugness). > > Which one -- Dylan, Edward, or R.S.??? > > R. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 27 02:13:24 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:13:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <00ae01c6c99f$e804ce90$0faf3852@ANNY> I think innovation is all right, but to it I would add quality. Innovation is not enough to be qualified as a major. I also value that Pound is a major, because of his innovation and quality. From: "steve moore" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 7:51 AM > I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a > matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that > push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within current > ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The distinction has > nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major poet, while Thomas is > minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better poet (I say with a > certain smugness). > >> Re Berryman and Dream Songs: >> >>> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, it's, >>> erm, >>> obvious. >> >> dave -- >> >> Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? >> >> I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the >> instance >> above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. >> >> (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of [the] >> level >> [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the >> moment.) >> >> Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd place >> Berryman as a minor poet. >> >> Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction between a >> major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you could [with >> reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were worth reading. With >> a minor poet, there has to be a degree of sympathy with the writing to >> begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne is major, Wyatt minor. >> >> R. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 27 02:19:17 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:19:17 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><083d01c6c99d$5fbe6700$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <084401c6c9a0$c2488240$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "steve moore" > Sorry, I think of only one Thomas, and that is Dylan. Ah, you meant the Welsh Windbag, then? I'd rather reread Pound, or indeed Edward Thomas or R.S.Thomas, any day. Though I'd make an exception for +Under Milk Wood+, which admittedly wasn't written in verse. Robin Hamilton >> Which one -- Dylan, Edward, or R.S.??? >> >> R. From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Sun Aug 27 03:17:59 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:17:59 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blodgett Message-ID: <00B44926-CCA9-4613-9441-5CDCA23E4981@bigpond.com> Why has no-one mentioned Blodgett - the tallest poet in the world?? From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 27 06:02:24 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:02:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <003401c6c9bf$e67101a0$37b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Is it really true that "few would consider Cummings a major poet?" In my community of (experimental) poets he is generally considered major. Among mainstream critics, none of whom has any appreciation of averbal poetic strategies, he is often not--although he is not ignored. How well represented is he in the mainstream anthologies? Only a few years ago an edition of his complete works was thought worth publishing. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Sun Aug 27 07:08:15 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:08:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Levis's measure Message-ID: In a message dated 8/26/2006 11:20:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Larry Levis, I would argue, was/ is major. Al-- Larry Levis is one of those poets that so far I just can't "get," it seems. But people I respect often consider his work major. (Such as Philip Levine, who'd be on any shortlist of mine of best poets of his generation.) I'd love some help in knowing what it is that Levis fans are responding to. Can you say more about his stuff? And what are his best/strongest poems, do you think? For me, one of Levis's great strengths, besides his ability to craft language, is the sweep of his poems. Often a Levis poem accumulates power and range by moving through a series of associations that circle and restate the poem's main idea. There's a real imagination at work in Levis's poems--something he has in common with the best of Levine's work. Also, the poems themselves tend to have large ambitions. Levis at his absolute best is probably the sequence "The Perfection of Solitude" from The Widening Spell of Leaves. "At the Grave of my Guardian Angel" from the same collection is very good. There are a number of good poems in Elegy, his last collection, including "In 1967" "Elegy With A Petty Thief In the Rigging" "elegy for Whatever Had A Pattern In It" although I have to say that in many of the poems in this book, I find sections of the poems stronger than the poems as a whole. Winter Stars has some fine poems including the title poem, "Irish Music" and "South." "Magnolia" and "The Use of Hands" from The Dollmaker's Ghost are very good. Levis's first two collections seem to be a little too much of their time, a little too taken with the deep image surrealism of the late 60's early 70's period of poetry. Anyway, that's just a thumbnail sketch. Ask me in five hours, when I'm a bit more awake, and I might give a different and more cohernent answer. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmetres at jcu.edu Sun Aug 27 08:32:25 2006 From: pmetres at jcu.edu (Philip Metres) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's beer bottle Message-ID: <20060827083225.AED26163@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Kooser's beer bottle is WC Williams', but with more lacquer. It's utterly derivative: the line breaks, the sanctity of broken stuff, etc. Philip Metres Assistant Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 (216) 397-4528 (work) http://www.philipmetres.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 27 09:34:23 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:34:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's beer bottle References: <20060827083225.AED26163@mirapoint.jcu.edu> Message-ID: <008901c6c9dd$824c9450$baaa3852@ANNY> What a heavy stone thrown into the dull pond stirring waters and wrinkling airs that a pine tree is a tree and that all trees are the same and belong to the vegetable world ok, we all agree. As much as all beer bottles contain beer. From: "Philip Metres" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:32 PM > Kooser's beer bottle is WC Williams', but with more > lacquer. It's utterly derivative: the line breaks, the > sanctity of broken stuff, etc. > > > Philip Metres > Assistant Professor > Department of English > John Carroll University > 20700 N. Park Blvd > University Heights, OH 44118 > (216) 397-4528 (work) > http://www.philipmetres.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 27 10:41:21 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:41:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card In-Reply-To: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <00521065-969C-414B-9D54-0D992CC55031@earthlink.net> Times change, and I think the age in which we allowed publishers and anthologists (the Louis Untermeyers and Oscar Williams, and, yes, Donald Adamses of the world) to define the canon, or even the sub-canons, for us is over. Just as the LP brought folks like Mahler and Vivaldi to the ears of many, the internet has opened us (our poetical world) up to many poetries that were previously "unheard of." No need to choose between Ashbery and Frost anymore, nor confine oneself to Bach, Beethoven and Brahms. No one (certainly not me) expects the "best" American poetry to be in (or only in) David Lehman's series or in Poetry (Chicago). Hal "Way down the deserted street, I thought I saw a bus which, with luck, might get me out of this sentence . . ." --Rosmarie Waldrop Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 26, 2006, at 11:17 PM, David Graham wrote: > Definitional squabbles about major/minor do make me itchy, but I'm > not averse to hearing which poets people most admire, and why. In > fact I find such discussions often very intriguing. > > If you look at American poets born, say, in the 1920s, I think that > just historically it becomes increasingly hard to find anything > remotely like a consensus on who the big names are. And with such > poets being in their 80s now, you'd think that time would have > sorted things out a bit. Apparently not, to judge from the > anthologies and critical journals, not to mention the spread of > opinion on this list. > > It was once possible to speak of The Ages of Eliot, Auden, and > Lowell. And few would deny the prominence of Frost and Stevens in > their generation. Equally few today would argue for Cummings as > major, which is one thing that's so charming about Bob Grumman's > lonely quest. > > But, moving to younger figures, can we even agree on a fairly long > short list among American poets born in the 1920s? Carruth? > Creeley? Bly? Hugo? Spicer? Justice? Wilbur? Blackburn? > Nemerov? Hecht? Dickey? Eigner? Kizer? Levertov (honorary > American)? Stern? Dorn? Snodgrass? Ammons? Ginsberg? O'Hara? > Ashbery? Merrill? Merwin? Kinnell? Rich? Sexton? Levine? > James Wright? Dugan? Kumin? Koch? Hall? > > Most poets on that list have their passionate advocates, while > being dismissed by others with shrugs or worse. When one moves into > poets born in the 1930s and 1940s, of course, all hell breaks > loose: more and more balkanization. > > I think we may well have moved, in the late twentieth century and > beyond, into a period which future generations will consider rich > in fine minor poets but lacking any commanding figures. But of > course, no one knows. It's a crapshoot. The major/minor yardstick > has always been a variable foot. Who knows?--maybe my ghost will > be flabbergasted to learn, on my visits to earth, that I did in > fact live in the Age of Ashbery. Lord help us. > > Personally, I'd be surprised though gratified if it turned out that > future generations considered Robert Hayden major. But in any > event I'll be long dead before that verdict is in. > > For whatever it's worth, my own ever-changing list of poets who've > meant the most to me would include, from the above list, Hugo, > Levertov, Levine, Wright, Bly, Justice, and O'Hara. Maybe Hugo > above all, because such an early and deep influence on me. > > Lots of others older and younger, too, naturally. (Langston > Hughes, Ignatow, Rexroth, Kunitz, Roethke, Bishop, Brooks, William > Matthews, Hass, Simic, Edson, Rogers...) > > And enough time has passed so that my personal preferences > sometimes are distinguishable from historical judgements. In some > ways William Stafford (b. 1914) has been as important to me as > anyone--but I kind of doubt that his reputation will last; I > imagine that Lowell (b. 1917) will continue overshadowing him in > death as he did in life. I couldn't argue very convincingly for > Stafford's importance on anyone beyond me and other like-minded > ones (you know, the ones who snort when someone like Spicer is put > forth as major). > > And that's just looking at 20th Century Americans. If I were asked > about Anglophone poets, I'd have to add Heaney, Walcott, Larkin, > and others to my lists. Your list would be quite different, would > it not? > > ========================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Aug 27 11:29:21 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:29:21 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> <00521065-969C-414B-9D54-0D992CC55031@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00c601c6c9ed$920f82c0$baaa3852@ANNY> Saturday, August 26, 2006 Poetry is a theater of forms. posted by Tom Beckett at 12:04 PM 0 comments From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 4:41 PM Times change, and I think the age in which we allowed publishers and anthologists (the Louis Untermeyers and Oscar Williams, and, yes, Donald Adamses of the world) to define the canon, or even the sub-canons, for us is over. Just as the LP brought folks like Mahler and Vivaldi to the ears of many, the internet has opened us (our poetical world) up to many poetries that were previously "unheard of." No need to choose between Ashbery and Frost anymore, nor confine oneself to Bach, Beethoven and Brahms. No one (certainly not me) expects the "best" American poetry to be in (or only in) David Lehman's series or in Poetry (Chicago). Hal "Way down the deserted street, I thought I saw a bus which, with luck, might get me out of this sentence . . ." --Rosmarie Waldrop Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Aug 26, 2006, at 11:17 PM, David Graham wrote: Definitional squabbles about major/minor do make me itchy, but I'm not averse to hearing which poets people most admire, and why. In fact I find such discussions often very intriguing. If you look at American poets born, say, in the 1920s, I think that just historically it becomes increasingly hard to find anything remotely like a consensus on who the big names are. And with such poets being in their 80s now, you'd think that time would have sorted things out a bit. Apparently not, to judge from the anthologies and critical journals, not to mention the spread of opinion on this list. It was once possible to speak of The Ages of Eliot, Auden, and Lowell. And few would deny the prominence of Frost and Stevens in their generation. Equally few today would argue for Cummings as major, which is one thing that's so charming about Bob Grumman's lonely quest. But, moving to younger figures, can we even agree on a fairly long short list among American poets born in the 1920s? Carruth? Creeley? Bly? Hugo? Spicer? Justice? Wilbur? Blackburn? Nemerov? Hecht? Dickey? Eigner? Kizer? Levertov (honorary American)? Stern? Dorn? Snodgrass? Ammons? Ginsberg? O'Hara? Ashbery? Merrill? Merwin? Kinnell? Rich? Sexton? Levine? James Wright? Dugan? Kumin? Koch? Hall? Most poets on that list have their passionate advocates, while being dismissed by others with shrugs or worse. When one moves into poets born in the 1930s and 1940s, of course, all hell breaks loose: more and more balkanization. I think we may well have moved, in the late twentieth century and beyond, into a period which future generations will consider rich in fine minor poets but lacking any commanding figures. But of course, no one knows. It's a crapshoot. The major/minor yardstick has always been a variable foot. Who knows?--maybe my ghost will be flabbergasted to learn, on my visits to earth, that I did in fact live in the Age of Ashbery. Lord help us. Personally, I'd be surprised though gratified if it turned out that future generations considered Robert Hayden major. But in any event I'll be long dead before that verdict is in. For whatever it's worth, my own ever-changing list of poets who've meant the most to me would include, from the above list, Hugo, Levertov, Levine, Wright, Bly, Justice, and O'Hara. Maybe Hugo above all, because such an early and deep influence on me. Lots of others older and younger, too, naturally. (Langston Hughes, Ignatow, Rexroth, Kunitz, Roethke, Bishop, Brooks, William Matthews, Hass, Simic, Edson, Rogers...) And enough time has passed so that my personal preferences sometimes are distinguishable from historical judgements. In some ways William Stafford (b. 1914) has been as important to me as anyone--but I kind of doubt that his reputation will last; I imagine that Lowell (b. 1917) will continue overshadowing him in death as he did in life. I couldn't argue very convincingly for Stafford's importance on anyone beyond me and other like-minded ones (you know, the ones who snort when someone like Spicer is put forth as major). And that's just looking at 20th Century Americans. If I were asked about Anglophone poets, I'd have to add Heaney, Walcott, Larkin, and others to my lists. Your list would be quite different, would it not? ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Sun Aug 27 12:00:28 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:00:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? References: Message-ID: <00a901c6c9f1$ebb9c700$0d0c9942@Helen> Kenyon Review? The New Yorker? (how many poems do they stick in the diamond and expensive booze ads?) American Poetry Review certainly has a high circulation - what do you think of the stuff they use? ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? In a message dated 8/26/2006 8:38:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, millb at aol.com writes: Greetings, Here's yet another opportunity: what are the most influential publications and publishers in the poetry world these days? Today. Other than the obvious, Poetry, Kenyon Review, Copper Canyon, The New Yorker. . .I would love to hear list members' opinions on this topic. Cheers and happy late August Mill Anyone who publishes me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 27 17:02:21 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:02:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Matthews's Young Message-ID: On Lester Young's birthday, a poem in tribute: Listening to Lester Young for Reg Saner It's 1958. Lester Young minces out, spraddle-legged as if pain were something he could step over by raising his groin, and begins to play. Soon he'll be dead. It's all tone now and tome slurring toward the center of each note. The edges that used to be exactly ragged as deckle are already dead. His embouchure is wobbly and he's so tired from dying he quotes himself, easy to remember the fingering. It's 1958 and a jazz writer is coming home from skating in Central Park. Who's that ahead? It's Lester Young! *Hey Pres*, he shouts and waves, letting his skates clatter. *You dropped your shit*, Pres says. It's 1976 and I'm listening to Lester Young through stereo equipment so good I can hear his breath rasp, water from a dry pond --, its bottom etched, like a palm, with strange marks, a language that was never born and in which palmists therefore can easily read the future. --William Matthews ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun Aug 27 17:49:22 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (Joseph Woodstream) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:49:22 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: <20060827214922.IWKG15733.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Rob I think it was Doubting (g) Bored in the Bar Dave (ps vicky has now a new nickname: Kermit. She thinks it's funny - explanations later) > > From: "Robin" > Date: 2006/08/27 Sun AM 05:55:06 GMT > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & > Views" > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > From: "steve moore" > > > Thus, Pound is a major > > poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better > > poet (I say with a certain smugness). > > Which one -- Dylan, Edward, or R.S.??? > > R. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 27 18:51:20 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:51:20 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <20060827214922.IWKG15733.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <097101c6ca2b$513d8ab0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Mr. Bircumshaw has asked me to apologise to the list for his inadvertant appearance under an heteronym (which I am reliably informed is a translation of his surname). He will return to posting when he has retrieved his own and proper identity. Lear: I.4.225 (Folio) -- I.4.212 (Quarto) R. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Woodstream" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Rob > > I think it was Doubting > > (g) > > Bored in the Bar > > Dave From millb at aol.com Sun Aug 27 18:58:42 2006 From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:58:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? In-Reply-To: <00a901c6c9f1$ebb9c700$0d0c9942@Helen> References: <00a901c6c9f1$ebb9c700$0d0c9942@Helen> Message-ID: <8C898437A198865-F84-7372@FWM-M37.sysops.aol.com> I guess I was aiming for "influential" as, perhaps, Kenyon Review was in the 1950's. Or Esquire in the 1970's for short stories. What publications featuring poetry are influential today? Not necessarily high circulation. Which publications matter in the poetry world? Gettysburg Review? Georgia Review? New Letters, Laureal Review, Tampa Review, Nimrod? Which presses are publishing the quality work these days? Sarabande and Copper Canyon? Mill -----Original Message----- From: hruggier at localnet.com Sent: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? Kenyon Review? The New Yorker? (how many poems do they stick in the diamond and expensive booze ads?) American Poetry Review certainly has a high circulation - what do you think of the stuff they use? ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? In a message dated 8/26/2006 8:38:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, millb at aol.com writes: Greetings, Here's yet another opportunity: what are the most influential publications and publishers in the poetry world these days? Today. Other than the obvious, Poetry, Kenyon Review, Copper Canyon, The New Yorker. . .I would love to hear list members' opinions on this topic. Cheers and happy late August Mill Anyone who publishes me. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Aug 27 19:46:17 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:46:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Matthews's Young References: Message-ID: <003a01c6ca32$fdc43e30$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> And another...this one mine. IN A DREAM, SHE SEES LESTER YOUNG STANDING NAKED In a dream, she sees Lester Young standing naked at the door to her kitchen. He is as women are to men in the dream, an invitation, not as men are to women, intrusion. His body is soft, and she wonders where that hard part is inside him, the tunnel of breath that turned Lady Be Good or Lester Leaps In. She gets up and walks to the kitchen, but he's not there. Thirsty, she runs the tap, and while the water cools, she watches it splash on the round of a spoon, spongy and brittle, as it would be, passed through that tunnel in her, in Lester, diffracted, never shaped. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry & Views Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Matthews's Young On Lester Young's birthday, a poem in tribute: Listening to Lester Young for Reg Saner It's 1958. Lester Young minces out, spraddle-legged as if pain were something he could step over by raising his groin, and begins to play. Soon he'll be dead. It's all tone now and tome slurring toward the center of each note. The edges that used to be exactly ragged as deckle are already dead. His embouchure is wobbly and he's so tired from dying he quotes himself, easy to remember the fingering. It's 1958 and a jazz writer is coming home from skating in Central Park. Who's that ahead? It's Lester Young! *Hey Pres*, he shouts and waves, letting his skates clatter. *You dropped your shit*, Pres says. It's 1976 and I'm listening to Lester Young through stereo equipment so good I can hear his breath rasp, water from a dry pond --, its bottom etched, like a palm, with strange marks, a language that was never born and in which palmists therefore can easily read the future. --William Matthews ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Aug 27 19:49:07 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:49:07 +0100 Subject: Fw: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: <098d01c6ca33$659d5370$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bircumshaw" To: "Robin" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Re Rob's post: something went bizarre in my Inbox and I suddenly found a > post I had sent to this list appeared under a pseudonym, much to my > confusion. How joseph woodstream managed to get himself subscribed I do > not > know. > > All the Best > > Even to the Scots (g) > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Cc: "David Bircumshaw" > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:51 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > >> Mr. Bircumshaw has asked me to apologise to the list for his inadvertant >> appearance under an heteronym (which I am reliably informed is a > translation >> of his surname). >> >> He will return to posting when he has retrieved his own and proper > identity. >> >> Lear: I.4.225 (Folio) -- I.4.212 (Quarto) >> >> R. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joseph Woodstream" >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" >> >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure >> >> >> > Rob >> > >> > I think it was Doubting >> > >> > (g) >> > >> > Bored in the Bar >> > >> > Dave >> >> > > From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Sun Aug 27 20:15:35 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:15:35 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <20060827214922.IWKG15733.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> <097101c6ca2b$513d8ab0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <004f01c6ca37$16b795a0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Re Rob's post: something went bizarre in my Inbox and I suddenly found a post I had sent to this list appeared under a pseudonym, much to my confusion. How joseph woodstream managed to get himself subscribed I do not know. All the Best Even to the Scots (g) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Cc: "David Bircumshaw" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:51 PM Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Mr. Bircumshaw has asked me to apologise to the list for his inadvertant > appearance under an heteronym (which I am reliably informed is a translation > of his surname). > > He will return to posting when he has retrieved his own and proper identity. > > Lear: I.4.225 (Folio) -- I.4.212 (Quarto) > > R. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph Woodstream" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > > > Rob > > > > I think it was Doubting > > > > (g) > > > > Bored in the Bar > > > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Cc: "David Bircumshaw" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:51 PM Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Mr. Bircumshaw has asked me to apologise to the list for his inadvertant > appearance under an heteronym (which I am reliably informed is a translation > of his surname). > > He will return to posting when he has retrieved his own and proper identity. > > Lear: I.4.225 (Folio) -- I.4.212 (Quarto) > > R. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph Woodstream" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > > > Rob > > > > I think it was Doubting > > > > (g) > > > > Bored in the Bar > > > > Dave > > From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Aug 27 23:50:24 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:50:24 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0608272050g4d1ef525x3eca8b5215bf5adb@mail.gmail.com> On 8/26/06, steve moore wrote: > I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a > matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that > push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within > current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. Except that quite a few might not even merit being a "Minor" I think you might be after Bob's heart! This seems to be, succinctly, Bob's continuing case. Though I would guess that he would contend there are also "Majors" who spawed no movements but whose innovations merit the title nonetheless... c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Aug 27 23:54:03 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:54:03 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card In-Reply-To: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0608272054t5ed7a3ecu1e61c0fcfe26bf29@mail.gmail.com> On 8/26/06, David Graham wrote: > Equally few today would argue for Cummings as major, which is one thing > that's so charming about Bob Grumman's lonely quest. If true, that's a pity... I don't see it, though, except for in some of the Sillimanites for whom cummings wasn't innovative enough. Cummings seems to be taught and referenced everywhere as canonical, though I'm not sure too many think about why and underestimate him as a one-trick pony. c From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 28 01:01:22 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:01:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0608272050g4d1ef525x3eca8b5215bf5adb@mail.gmail.com> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <9b1b9dab0608272050g4d1ef525x3eca8b5215bf5adb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <74C530CC-C51A-404A-95B5-A8AAFE7CFABF@earthlink.net> On Aug 27, 2006, at 10:50 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > On 8/26/06, steve moore wrote: >> I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a >> matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that >> push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within >> current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. Applied to music, that would make Bach a minor composer. Mozart too. Hal "Technological progress is like an ax in the hands of a pathological criminal." --Albert Einstein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon Aug 28 03:45:40 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:45:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Rob wrote: Thus (in my terms) Donne > > is major, Wyatt minor. Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for example, Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a major poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone asked whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster? There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature and poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not equal a top-notch poet. Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist. Blagued in the Bar D ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve moore" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a > matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that > push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within > current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The > distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major > poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better > poet (I say with a certain smugness). > > > Re Berryman and Dream Songs: > > > >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, > >> it's, erm, > >> obvious. > > > > dave -- > > > > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? > > > > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the > > instance > > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. > > > > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of > > [the] level > > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the > > moment.) > > > > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd > > place Berryman as a minor poet. > > > > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction > > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you > > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were > > worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of > > sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne > > is major, Wyatt minor. > > > > R. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Mon Aug 28 04:17:46 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:17:46 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <001301c6ca7a$7317fa90$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> PS on the question of whether there are any major American poets the answer is definitely yes. They are called Pablo Neruda and Cesar Vallejo. B in the B D From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 28 04:52:33 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:52:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <003401c6ca7f$4dc596d0$208f3052@ANNY> You are talking like Pound. He said similar words about a century ago. And we know that behind them there was a certain competition with W.C. Williams, not that the latter spared anything to him. Shakespeare found and founded the entity of the English language, and Dante wrote in a language that was not the official one - a brand new one in the written context, how old I cannot tell. American poets write in English and before writing they go through Shakespeare & Co. I am not sure your theory is supported by actual facts. The entity of America was well shaped by the Constitution, and much had old decrepit Europe to learn from it with its nicely arranged courts and gardens, and teeteetooo and tahtahtah. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bircumshaw" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for > what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for example, > Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a > major > poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone > asked > whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that > effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare > or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young > culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan > Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster? > There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature and > poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not > equal > a top-notch poet. > Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist. > > Blagued in the Bar > > D From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 28 06:04:45 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 06:04:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Just to muddy the waters further, I would say that Shakespeare was not a major poet--he was a major dramatist. As for great American poets, Dave, I think you couldn't be more wrong. There haven't been any poets anywhere better than the American poets of Stevens's generation. And America is not a young nation but a branch of England, its poets straight from Shakespeare and before through Wordsworth via Emerson to Stevens's generation. As for Donne, I think him ridiculously strained and minor. So there. --Bob --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Bircumshaw" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Rob wrote: > > Thus (in my terms) Donne >> > is major, Wyatt minor. > > Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for > what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for example, > Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a > major > poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone > asked > whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that > effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare > or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young > culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan > Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster? > There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature and > poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not > equal > a top-notch poet. > Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist. > > Blagued in the Bar > > D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve moore" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:51 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > >> I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a >> matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that >> push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within >> current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The >> distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major >> poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better >> poet (I say with a certain smugness). >> >> > Re Berryman and Dream Songs: >> > >> >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, >> >> it's, erm, >> >> obvious. >> > >> > dave -- >> > >> > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? >> > >> > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the >> > instance >> > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. >> > >> > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of >> > [the] level >> > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the >> > moment.) >> > >> > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd >> > place Berryman as a minor poet. >> > >> > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction >> > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you >> > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were >> > worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of >> > sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne >> > is major, Wyatt minor. >> > >> > R. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New-Poetry mailing list >> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Aug 28 06:44:53 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:44:53 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <09f101c6ca8f$05c18320$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Bob (and dave): > Just to muddy the waters further, I would say that Shakespeare was not a > major poet--he was a major dramatist. Um ... Depends how you cut the cake -- poetry/novel/drama or verse/prose. A great dramatist wrting in poetry rather than prose? (I tried to but simply couldn't seem to type "great poetic dramatist). On the Sonnets pure and simple, dunno. I think it's the finest sequence in English, and obviously lies behind Berryman's Sonnets, but a borderline case here. But more major than minor. > As for great American poets, Dave, I think you couldn't be more wrong. > There haven't been any poets anywhere better than the American poets of > Stevens's generation. Um (again). I'd agree that that's the height -- with Stevens, WCW, Pound and Eliot, as well as a raft of smaller poets like John Crowe Ransom -- of US American poetry to date. But England between 1580 and 1610 -- Spenser, Sidney, Donne, Jonson ... [depends how long you extend the period], the Romantic movement (though that's two generations] -- Wordsworth/Coleridge/Blake/Byron/Keats/Shelley? But yes, American poetry of that generation is comparable, one of the great moments. [But weren't we talking of the now? Stevens et alia are history, not our contemporaries, even if those contemporaries are old enough to be our grandfathers. "We read the living in a different fashion than the way we read the dead -- they are not yet part of history."] > And America is not a young nation but a branch of England, its poets > straight from Shakespeare and before through Wordsworth via Emerson to > Stevens's generation. That was my first reaction too, and in a sense it's true, with obviously Anne Bradstreet looking back to England (poetically) and Donne. But Whitman and Emily Dickinson carve a line -- after that, it *is "American Poetry", even if the linguistic tradition goes back to the Old Country. England is certainly there, but the centre has shifted. Even the Pound/WCW quarrel over making a tradition of *American poetry, is a quarrel between Americans. (Eliot, in contrast, simply turned himself into a Brit. If it weren't for those sawdust restaurants with oyster shells in Prufrock, there might be nothing to show he started life in the US.) > As for Donne, I think him ridiculously strained and minor. Oddly enough, I'm inclined to partly agree. Another borderline case, like Auden? I'd not feel quite so secure in saying that Donne is a major poet in the way that I would with Blake, for example. It's almost as if some great poets can have a curious imaginative flaw at the centre. Something to do with not finally transcending egotism, maybe? Robin From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 28 09:25:50 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:25:50 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004a01c6caa5$7ad67f10$208f3052@ANNY> I could not agree with you more on Donne. I can remember I was electrified to meet a metaphysical poet, as they define him, and it was a sort of disappointment to read his work. This is what I thought, independently of what David says, I am not saying this because David said something different before, I want to make this clear. From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:04 PM > Just to muddy the waters further, I would say that Shakespeare was not a > major poet--he was a major dramatist. As for great American poets, Dave, > I think you couldn't be more wrong. There haven't been any poets anywhere > better than the American poets of Stevens's generation. And America is > not a young nation but a branch of England, its poets straight from > Shakespeare and before through Wordsworth via Emerson to Stevens's > generation. As for Donne, I think him ridiculously strained and minor. > > So there. > > --Bob > > --Bob G. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Bircumshaw" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:45 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > >> Rob wrote: >> >> Thus (in my terms) Donne >>> > is major, Wyatt minor. >> >> Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for >> what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for >> example, >> Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a >> major >> poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone >> asked >> whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that >> effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that >> Shakespeare >> or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young >> culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan >> Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster? >> There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature and >> poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not >> equal >> a top-notch poet. >> Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist. >> >> Blagued in the Bar >> >> D >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "steve moore" >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" >> >> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure >> >> >>> I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a >>> matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that >>> push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within >>> current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The >>> distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major >>> poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better >>> poet (I say with a certain smugness). >>> >>> > Re Berryman and Dream Songs: >>> > >>> >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, >>> >> it's, erm, >>> >> obvious. >>> > >>> > dave -- >>> > >>> > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? >>> > >>> > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the >>> > instance >>> > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. >>> > >>> > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of >>> > [the] level >>> > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the >>> > moment.) >>> > >>> > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd >>> > place Berryman as a minor poet. >>> > >>> > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction >>> > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you >>> > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were >>> > worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of >>> > sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne >>> > is major, Wyatt minor. >>> > >>> > R. >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > New-Poetry mailing list >>> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From fssam6 at uaf.edu Mon Aug 28 09:41:00 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:41:00 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> "Someone asked whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously" I'm not sure how popular this will be on here, but I don't see how anyone can count T.S. Eliot as anything but a 'great poet in the sense [of] Shakespeare or Dante'. And he's American, the Brits need to give that tired old horse up. On Aug 27, 2006, at 11:45 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Someone asked > whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that > effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that > Shakespeare > or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Aug 28 10:01:11 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:01:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Great America In-Reply-To: <0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <128D2CCD-AD18-4286-8964-933E5E03DE06@ripon.edu> On Aug 28, 2006, at 8:41 AM, steve moore wrote: > "Someone asked whether I think there are any 'great' American > poets, or words to that effect, and if the question is 'great > poets' in the sense that Shakespeare or Dante are well the answer > is no, obviously" > ----------------- I for one am not interested in any definition of poetic greatness that does not include Whitman and Dickinson. "Obviously." And yes, in precisely the sense that Shakespeare or Dante were great. Makes me think about all the essays Donald Hall wrote years back in which he posited that, despite the common language, English and U.S. poets just can't seem to *hear* each other very well. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Mon Aug 28 10:35:08 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:35:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? References: <00a901c6c9f1$ebb9c700$0d0c9942@Helen> <8C898437A198865-F84-7372@FWM-M37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006d01c6caaf$2e7e3b30$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I'd say the online places are getting more readers, and are perhaps more influential. Poetry Daily would be the first I'd single out, and in a sense, Poetry Daily "broke" Billy Collins as a national phenomenon. I think Cortland Review is pretty significant. Able Muse, as I suggested before. I wonder if more people might read the poetry on SLATE than in the New Yorker. ----- Original Message ----- From: millb at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? I guess I was aiming for "influential" as, perhaps, Kenyon Review was in the 1950's. Or Esquire in the 1970's for short stories. What publications featuring poetry are influential today? Not necessarily high circulation. Which publications matter in the poetry world? Gettysburg Review? Georgia Review? New Letters, Laureal Review, Tampa Review, Nimrod? Which presses are publishing the quality work these days? Sarabande and Copper Canyon? Mill -----Original Message----- From: hruggier at localnet.com Sent: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? Kenyon Review? The New Yorker? (how many poems do they stick in the diamond and expensive booze ads?) American Poetry Review certainly has a high circulation - what do you think of the stuff they use? ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? In a message dated 8/26/2006 8:38:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, millb at aol.com writes: Greetings, Here's yet another opportunity: what are the most influential publications and publishers in the poetry world these days? Today. Other than the obvious, Poetry, Kenyon Review, Copper Canyon, The New Yorker. . .I would love to hear list members' opinions on this topic. Cheers and happy late August Mill Anyone who publishes me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Aug 28 03:54:47 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:54:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] submissions In-Reply-To: <20060826103000.27623.qmail@web30213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/26/06 5:30 AM, "mk jeeves" wrote: > Hi, > > Any particular protocol for submissions? This is still a bit of an > unknown territory for me. > > > Thanks, > > > John Byland > > > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Mike, is this query directed to me? Paul Lake -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Aug 28 11:03:52 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:03:52 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> Message-ID: <003d01c6cab3$2d4485e0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: steve moore > [T.S.Eliot is] American, the Brits need to give that tired old horse up. Why should they want him? It's more that they're lumbered with him. At least, no one has ever suggested he's a Scottish poet, though from his surname, he could probably have traced his ancestory back to border reivers in the Disputed Lands. He's American in a way comparable to that in which Byron is a Scottish poet. Well, perhaps a little more so, as the material in +Inventions of a March Hare+ *is American. (Implication: in a way that Eliot's later writing is not.) If Eliot is American, what does that make Stevens or Pound or Wiliam Carlos Williams? Robin Hamilton From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Aug 28 11:40:56 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:40:56 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Maurice Gilliams Message-ID: <009001c6cab8$5aa6c570$208f3052@ANNY> SOURCES OF INSOMNIA I She carried the lamp behind the water lilies. The midnight dawn gnaws through the high chamber where Maria sleeps, as I long for water and for lilies. I lie beside her. She rests with me. And none of us are in this world jointly, for nothing is here for elsewhere joined where no desire tears one and the other asunder. The wall becomes mirror of the army of stars. The silence swells with fish. In the algae grate the saline crystals of old sores. Will I remain then in the watery grave while the phantom ship sails on forever? - But when Maria sighs, I take her hand. ? 1954, MAURICE GILLIAMS Translated by Marian de Vooght & Green Integer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 13:09:05 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:09:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Maurice Gilliams In-Reply-To: <009001c6cab8$5aa6c570$208f3052@ANNY> References: <009001c6cab8$5aa6c570$208f3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60608281009l3ac2d943m85a2e5085cb9ad0c@mail.gmail.com> Ooh. Thanks for this. It's like a good string quartet. - Jim On 8/28/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > SOURCES OF INSOMNIA I > > > She carried the lamp behind the water lilies. > The midnight dawn gnaws through > the high chamber where Maria sleeps, > as I long for water and for lilies. > > I lie beside her. She rests with me. And none > of us are in this world jointly, > for nothing is here for elsewhere joined > where no desire tears one and the other asunder. > > The wall becomes mirror of the army of stars. > The silence swells with fish. In the algae > grate the saline crystals of old sores. > > Will I remain then in the watery grave > while the phantom ship sails on forever? > ? But when Maria sighs, I take her hand. > > > > (c) 1954, MAURICE GILLIAMS > > Translated by Marian de Vooght & Green Integer > > > ________________________________ > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing > star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Aug 28 14:22:16 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:22:16 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Balloon Debate -- WAS Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> <003d01c6cab3$2d4485e0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <003801c6cace$e7fe8a50$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> I think the discussion of major as against minor poets (and the subordinate discussion as to whether the distinction is worth discussing) should be shifted to a Balloon Debate. This has several advantages, not the least of which is that participants aren't tempted to take themselves too seriously. Another, that there *has to be an outcome. (Assuming, which may be a large assumption, that voting rules can be agreed. One email address, one vote?) Also, it's not a strictly binary opposition, like major/minor. We have to decide on the nature of the balloon, and (probably the most interesting part of the excercise) who are the four candidates allowed on board in the first place, before we even reach the stage of having only one not defenestrated. [Um, well, not the right word, I know, but it sounds more formal than chucked over the side.] The Really Big Balloon is probably out, as I doubt there are enough of us (certainly not me) with a sufficient knowledge of the poetries of every language ever spoken or written, living or dead, so perhaps a restriction to Indo-European Poets, complementary tickets to Shakespeare and Homer, with two more to be voted in before the expulsions start? So there would be The Indo-European Balloon. ... and descending in capaciousness ... The Anglophone Balloon (despite their geographic location, no Celtic speakers allowed) The American Balloon The Post-1900 American Balloon The 1900-1950 American Balloon (Frost and cummings allowed to compete for a place) The Living American Writers (or would be if they hadn't inadvertantly died) Balloon ... The New Poetry Balloon (based on list presence or poetic achievement?) -- I nominate Bob Grumman for a place on board. Robin Hamilton From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 28 14:36:18 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:36:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Maurice Gilliams In-Reply-To: <648208b60608281009l3ac2d943m85a2e5085cb9ad0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <009001c6cab8$5aa6c570$208f3052@ANNY> <648208b60608281009l3ac2d943m85a2e5085cb9ad0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <69C03B5A-0B95-436F-9935-898D23946B12@earthlink.net> On Aug 28, 2006, at 12:09 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Ooh. Thanks for this. It's like a good string quartet. > > - Jim Well, maybe not like one of those that keep you awake. Hal "How strange we are, to call what happens anything at all." --Robert Kelly Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at gmail.com halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On 8/28/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> >> >> SOURCES OF INSOMNIA I >> >> >> She carried the lamp behind the water lilies. >> The midnight dawn gnaws through >> the high chamber where Maria sleeps, >> as I long for water and for lilies. >> >> I lie beside her. She rests with me. And none >> of us are in this world jointly, >> for nothing is here for elsewhere joined >> where no desire tears one and the other asunder. >> >> The wall becomes mirror of the army of stars. >> The silence swells with fish. In the algae >> grate the saline crystals of old sores. >> >> Will I remain then in the watery grave >> while the phantom ship sails on forever? >> ? But when Maria sighs, I take her hand. >> >> >> >> (c) 1954, MAURICE GILLIAMS >> >> Translated by Marian de Vooght & Green Integer >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Anny Ballardini >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a >> dancing >> star! >> Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 28 17:08:21 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:08:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hemingway & Co. in Key West - New York Times Message-ID: <4bd.643df280.3224b545@aol.com> Good read...nice bit about Chas. Olson as Elizabeth Bishop's tenant... _Click here: Hemingway & Co. in Key West - New York Times_ (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE5DD1F3DF933A15752C1A96E948260&sec=&pagewant ed=2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fssam6 at uaf.edu Mon Aug 28 19:17:12 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:17:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <003d01c6cab3$2d4485e0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> <003d01c6cab3$2d4485e0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: I would say that Eliot is as American as Stevens or William Carlos Williams. While the former embraced their American-ness, Eliot tried to escape it, but this doesn't make him any less American. His American sensibility expresses itself in his search for a human tradition, rather than national, a synthesis of all the world had to offer (however imperfect that search may have been). Now, I would agree that his later writings (post-Waste Land) are much less American, partly because he gave up on his search, but this does not make him cease to be an American poet, or does it? We don't say that because Shakespeare (sorry for the obvious reference, but I'm writing this in a hurry) began writing Romances and portrayed women more harshly in his plays after Elizabeth died, he was not an Elizabethan playwright? In other words, later works do not redefine the author's previous identity, does it? I'm not sure. This is an interesting question. On Aug 28, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Robin wrote: > From: steve moore > >> [T.S.Eliot is] American, the Brits need to give that tired old >> horse up. > > Why should they want him? It's more that they're lumbered with > him. At least, no one has ever suggested he's a Scottish poet, > though from his surname, he could probably have traced his > ancestory back to border reivers in the Disputed Lands. > > He's American in a way comparable to that in which Byron is a > Scottish poet. > > Well, perhaps a little more so, as the material in +Inventions of a > March Hare+ *is American. (Implication: in a way that Eliot's > later writing is not.) > > If Eliot is American, what does that make Stevens or Pound or > Wiliam Carlos Williams? > > Robin Hamilton > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 28 19:41:00 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:41:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <9b1b9dab0608272050g4d1ef525x3eca8b5215bf5adb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007501c6cafb$6c753320$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > On 8/26/06, steve moore wrote: >> I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a >> matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that >> push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within >> current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. > > Except that quite a few might not even merit being a "Minor" I think > you might be after Bob's heart! This seems to be, succinctly, Bob's > continuing case. Though I would guess that he would contend there are > also "Majors" who spawned no movements but whose innovations merit the > title nonetheless... > c Ha, I read this quickly, Chris, and thought you guessed I would contend that there were "majors" who did not innovate--as, of course, I always have. As for innovative poets with no followers, I'm not sure there have been any but I do believe in poets who are of major importance even though they never wrote any effective poems (in most people's opinions over many decades) because they tried significantly new tactics and showed later poets where they might profitably go, and where it was unprofitable to go. I pair these important poets with uninnovative poets who did the same old same old better than it had ever been done before (Yeats and Frost) and call effective poets. The latter I would call major, but would only call those of my important poets major who not only innovated but produced at least a few effective poems, like Pound. Some poets, finally, seem to me to have been both significantly innovative and effective, Cummings being one of them. Actually, I'd say Pound was, too. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 28 19:54:53 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:54:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0608272054t5ed7a3ecu1e61c0fcfe26bf29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008001c6cafd$5c8e15b0$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > On 8/26/06, David Graham wrote: >> Equally few today would argue for Cummings as major, which is one thing >> that's so charming about Bob Grumman's lonely quest. > > If true, that's a pity... I don't see it, though, except for in some > of the Sillimanites for whom cummings wasn't innovative enough. I think Silliman undervalues Cummings because of his politics and lyricism, not because he wasn't innovative enough. > Cummings seems to be taught and referenced everywhere as canonical, > though I'm not sure too many think about why and underestimate him as > a one-trick pony. > > c Glad to get your backing, Chris. Sometimes I do feel lonely as a Cummings advocate, but the more I reflect on it, the more unlonely I feel. For instance, he got a substantial enough write-up in Burt Kimmelman's recent 20th-Century American Poetry--and two of his poems were given entries (one of which I wrote) and he is mentioned prominently in the entry on visual poetry (also by me), which is getting more and more play in these kinds of reference books, which should increase the mentions of him in conjunction with visual poetry. Billy Collins not too long ago wrote an appreciation of him. Quite a few biographies of him and books of criticism about his work have been written, and will keep being written. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 28 20:02:02 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:02:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Great America References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu> <128D2CCD-AD18-4286-8964-933E5E03DE06@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <008f01c6cafe$5c6d2ac0$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> On Aug 28, 2006, at 8:41 AM, steve moore wrote: "Someone asked whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously" ----------------- I for one am not interested in any definition of poetic greatness that does not include Whitman and Dickinson. "Obviously." And yes, in precisely the sense that Shakespeare or Dante were great. Makes me think about all the essays Donald Hall wrote years back in which he posited that, despite the common language, English and U.S. poets just can't seem to *hear* each other very well. I don't see that, at all. I'm an American but I think less of Whitman and Dickinson, I'm sure, than most of my British cousins do. And I value a lot of British poets. I continue to believe both American and British poets are coming out of the same tradition, differing only the way New England poets differ from poets of the American South, say. With Americans probably being a bit more daring. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 28 20:15:27 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:15:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <09f101c6ca8f$05c18320$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <009401c6cb00$3c328460$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Bob (and dave): > > >> Just to muddy the waters further, I would say that Shakespeare was not a >> major poet--he was a major dramatist. > > Um ... Depends how you cut the cake -- poetry/novel/drama or verse/prose. Or narrative/lyric. > A great dramatist wrting in poetry rather than prose? (I tried to but > simply couldn't seem to type "great poetic dramatist). But there are great novelists writing in poetry of a sort--like Joyce in Finnegans Wake, in my view. On the Sonnets pure > and simple, dunno. I think it's the finest sequence in English, and > obviously lies behind Berryman's Sonnets, but a borderline case here. But > more major than minor. For me, more minor than major. >> As for great American poets, Dave, I think you couldn't be more wrong. >> There haven't been any poets anywhere better than the American poets of >> Stevens's generation. > > Um (again). I'd agree that that's the height -- with Stevens, WCW, Pound > and Eliot, as well as a raft of smaller poets like John Crowe Ransom -- of > US American poetry to date. But England between 1580 and 1610 -- Spenser, > Sidney, Donne, Jonson ... [depends how long you extend the period], the > Romantic movement (though that's two generations] -- > Wordsworth/Coleridge/Blake/Byron/Keats/Shelley? But yes, American poetry > of that generation is comparable, one of the great moments. Good, we agree there! > [But weren't we talking of the now? Originally, it was the generation before the present one. And I was calling for a list of major poets only, not trying to start the discussion about what's major and who is major, etc., that's now going--and I hope to stay mostly out of. Stevens et alia are history, not our > contemporaries, even if those contemporaries are old enough to be our > grandfathers. "We read the living in a different fashion than the way we > read the dead -- they are not yet part of history."] > >> And America is not a young nation but a branch of England, its poets >> straight from Shakespeare and before through Wordsworth via Emerson to >> Stevens's generation. > > That was my first reaction too, and in a sense it's true, with obviously > Anne Bradstreet looking back to England (poetically) and Donne. But > Whitman and Emily Dickinson carve a line -- after that, it *is "American > Poetry", even if the linguistic tradition goes back to the Old Country. > England is certainly there, but the centre has shifted. Even the > Pound/WCW quarrel over making a tradition of *American poetry, is a > quarrel between Americans. (Eliot, in contrast, simply turned himself into > a Brit. If it weren't for those sawdust restaurants with oyster shells in > Prufrock, there might be nothing to show he started life in the US.) I see it as one tradition with localities weaving into and away from each other. Very complicated, though. >> As for Donne, I think him ridiculously strained and minor. > > Oddly enough, I'm inclined to partly agree. Another borderline case, like > Auden? I'd not feel quite so secure in saying that Donne is a major poet > in the way that I would with Blake, for example. Wow, surprised to get that much agreement, or lack of disagreement, from you! About Donne. I don't think Blake major, at all. > It's almost as if some great poets can have a curious imaginative flaw at > the centre. Something to do with not finally transcending egotism, maybe? > > Robin Well, Blake was simply not in touch with reality, Donne just a poet whose mechanical cleverness ran away with him (something that may be a problem of mine, too). To answer unseriousfully. --Bob G. From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Aug 28 20:24:51 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:24:51 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><0C43D5DF-772B-4CE7-8F3B-B0CCA2C304C9@uaf.edu><003d01c6cab3$2d4485e0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <00c601c6cb01$8f3c7e30$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Steve: Just briefly as it's after midnight here (I'm living in England by UK time) and I'll try to take up your other points later. But on one narrow and maybe not central point you make ... << We don't say that because Shakespeare (sorry for the obvious reference, but I'm writing this in a hurry) began writing Romances and portrayed women more harshly in his plays after Elizabeth died, >> I think this is backwards -- we have Margaret of Anjou and Catherine in The Shrew both before Elizabeth dies. And afterwards Hermione, Perdita, what's'her'name in Pericles, Miranda etc. Naughty Ladies, *then Nice Girls. Lady Macbeth (post-1603) is a possible exception, but she's more sympathetic than Queen Margaret, and Cordelia balances Goneril and Regan (as Edgar balances Edmund). But by the time of the Romances, it's virtually impossible to find a negative female character. Also, the Romances are quite a *bit after 1603. It would be fairer to say that there, Shakespeare is post-Jacobean even, having gone through it. Although obviously James was still alive on the throne. It's not just a matter of the date of Jimmy the Sixth and One's coronation -- the shift to a "Jacobean sensibility" takes place in the last sad years of Elizabeth's reign. << he was not an Elizabethan playwright? >> Nope, he stopped being one even before Elizabeth died. You can't get much *more "Jacobean" than +Hamlet+. Unless we're talking simple chronology, in which case, by definition, he's an Elizabethan playwright before 1603 and a Jacobean one afterwards. << In other words, later works do not redefine the author's previous identity, does it? >> They can do, sometimes. In one sense, they always do so. It was Eliot himself who said, in another context, that the intrusion of a new work of art changes everything that has gone before. << I'm not sure. This is an interesting question. >> I'd agree that the question of in just what way Eliot is American (or not), in contrast to Stevens (another interesting case who in no way could be claimed as an English poet but isn't American in the way WCW is, or Pound) is more interesting to pursue than the plain and trite, "Is Eliot an American Poet or an English One?" (I think questions like that were once set in the high school syllabus in the UK, dear god.) Also, I'd agree it's a matter of particular texts -- somewhere in the sequence through the March Hare drafts, Prufrock, Gerontion, the Waste Land -- I'd put it in the course of the revision of J. Alfred Prufrock [which my Scottish -- or British -- preconceptions for years misheard as Alfred J. Prufrock -- or maybe I'd been reading too many Mad Magazines], while you'd put it after The Wasteland. Interesting. But for now, I gotta go. Robin From rnameroff at earthlink.net Tue Aug 29 01:51:48 2006 From: rnameroff at earthlink.net (Rochelle Nameroff) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:51:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <009401c6cb00$3c328460$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <09f101c6ca8f$05c18320$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <009401c6cb00$3c328460$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Mary Oliver will last. And Allen Ginsberg is still a major poet, both in production and influence. "Howl" is as great and as important as "The Wasteland." James Wright, Elizabeth Bishop, Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton have also created significant bodies of work and influence. Shelley Nameroff On Aug 28, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > And I was calling for a list of major poets only From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 29 05:26:17 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:26:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: University of Alabama discount offer on Du Plessis's books Message-ID: <001201c6cb4d$2ebb6070$14aa3252@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Webster Schultz" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: University of Alabama discount offer on Du Plessis's books NEW FROM THE UNIVESITY OF ALABAMA PRESS!! BLUE STUDIOS Poetry and Its Cultural Work Rachel Blau DuPlessis A new collection of essays that continues the work begun in The Pink Guitar! ?Blue Studios is an intriguing defense of ?affective reading,? a defense and demonstration of some adventurous and nonstandard modes of essay-writing, and a suggestion of a kind of utopian horizon for poetry/poetics. A major collection by one of the most important poets and critics writing today, it is a proper (and improper) successor to The Pink Guitar.? ?Hank Lazer, coeditor, Modern and Contemporary Poetics Rachel Blau DuPlessis is a poet, critic, and Professor of English at Temple University. She is the author/editor of more than 20 volumes of poetry and criticism. THE PINK GUITAR Writing as Feminist Practice Rachel Blau DuPlessis A landmark study of women?s writing and poetics?now back in print! ?One of the boldest, most enlightening, innovative, challenging, and knowledgeable works of feminist theory to grace the last couple of decades.??Martha Nell Smith, Tulsa Studies in Women?s Literature ?Establishes a powerful feminist writing practice not because of DuPlessis?s refusal of authority, transcendence, and singularity, but because of the ways she redeploys these.??Jeanne Heuving, Contemporary Literature The discount is 30% until September 15. I can't paste in the order form, so if you contact me, I can send it to you via attachment. aloha, Susan From chris.lott at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 06:38:51 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:38:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] The score card In-Reply-To: <008001c6cafd$5c8e15b0$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <8FC6F88B-E87B-4D2C-B1E7-C7ED652EC7BB@ripon.edu> <9b1b9dab0608272054t5ed7a3ecu1e61c0fcfe26bf29@mail.gmail.com> <008001c6cafd$5c8e15b0$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0608290338w1ff7e4c6q7a620041355db636@mail.gmail.com> On 8/28/06, Bob Grumman wrote: > I think Silliman undervalues Cummings because of his politics and lyricism, > not because he wasn't innovative enough. Interesting. In my mind, Silliman saw Cummings the way some now see Simic-- a little "lite" I'm glad we have common ground re: Cummings. He is one of my poets of refuge-- one I can always return to and one that always has something to offer. I haven't (yet) seen the Kimmelman book. c From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 07:13:17 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:13:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Maurice Gilliams In-Reply-To: <69C03B5A-0B95-436F-9935-898D23946B12@earthlink.net> References: <009001c6cab8$5aa6c570$208f3052@ANNY> <648208b60608281009l3ac2d943m85a2e5085cb9ad0c@mail.gmail.com> <69C03B5A-0B95-436F-9935-898D23946B12@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <648208b60608290413t4d8beb8cp7fd6485d5622ea94@mail.gmail.com> On 8/28/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > On Aug 28, 2006, at 12:09 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > > > Ooh. Thanks for this. It's like a good string quartet. > > > > - Jim > > Well, maybe not like one of those that keep you awake. > > Hal That's what earplugs are for. - Jim > ================ > halvard at gmail.com > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > On 8/28/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> > >> > >> SOURCES OF INSOMNIA I > >> > >> > >> She carried the lamp behind the water lilies. > >> The midnight dawn gnaws through > >> the high chamber where Maria sleeps, > >> as I long for water and for lilies. > >> > >> I lie beside her. She rests with me. And none > >> of us are in this world jointly, > >> for nothing is here for elsewhere joined > >> where no desire tears one and the other asunder. > >> > >> The wall becomes mirror of the army of stars. > >> The silence swells with fish. In the algae > >> grate the saline crystals of old sores. > >> > >> Will I remain then in the watery grave > >> while the phantom ship sails on forever? > >> ? But when Maria sighs, I take her hand. > >> > >> > >> > >> (c) 1954, MAURICE GILLIAMS > >> > >> Translated by Marian de Vooght & Green Integer > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> Anny Ballardini > >> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > >> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > >> http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > >> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > >> dancing > >> star! > >> Friedrich Nietzsche > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning > > ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > > ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ From LauraHeidy at aol.com Tue Aug 29 07:16:18 2006 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:16:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? Message-ID: <38d.9b24f46.32257c02@aol.com> In a message dated 8/28/2006 10:36:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: I'd say the online places are getting more readers, and are perhaps more influential. Poetry Daily would be the first I'd single out, and in a sense, Poetry Daily "broke" Billy Collins as a national phenomenon. I think Cortland Review is pretty significant. Able Muse, as I suggested before Ah, but AbleMuse went belly-up in 2002. Admittedly, it ran some pretty good poetry, but it exists no longer except in the minds and hearts of a few Eratosphere die-hards, and unless you're a formalist, or fond of formal poetry, even Eratospherians are far more infatuated with themselves than anyone else might be. I can say that, because I'm a die-hard Eratospherian. :) Lo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Aug 29 08:00:48 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:00:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? References: <38d.9b24f46.32257c02@aol.com> Message-ID: <002801c6cb62$c4d00b00$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> A journal, online or other, can fold and still leave a legacy of significance. I don't think that Able Muse's influence went beyond the formalists, any more than Fence went beyond Language, but it too had a sphere of influence that mattered. What about Jacket? ----- Original Message ----- From: LauraHeidy at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Influential Publications? In a message dated 8/28/2006 10:36:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: I'd say the online places are getting more readers, and are perhaps more influential. Poetry Daily would be the first I'd single out, and in a sense, Poetry Daily "broke" Billy Collins as a national phenomenon. I think Cortland Review is pretty significant. Able Muse, as I suggested before Ah, but AbleMuse went belly-up in 2002. Admittedly, it ran some pretty good poetry, but it exists no longer except in the minds and hearts of a few Eratosphere die-hards, and unless you're a formalist, or fond of formal poetry, even Eratospherians are far more infatuated with themselves than anyone else might be. I can say that, because I'm a die-hard Eratospherian. :) Lo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 29 10:49:46 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:49:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text in French Message-ID: <00c101c6cb7a$5ef80900$14aa3252@ANNY> > From: Association culturelle France-Am?rique [mailto:acfa1 at aliceadsl.fr] > Sent: donderdag 10 augustus 2006 16:24 The French publisher ? Acfa Editions ? Is pleased to announce the publication of "Au Sud D'eden, Des Am?ricains Dans Le Sud De La France, 1910-1940" By the art historian Jocelyne Rotily. ISBN: 2-9524259-0-6 244 pages 24 illustrations (TEXT IN FRENCH) "A book of high interest" (Edmonde Charles-Roux, President of the Acad?mie Goncourt) "Au Sud d'Eden" was supported by the Archives of American Art, the Centre National des Lettres, and the Conseil G?n?ral 13. A BRIEF DESCRIPTION : Rare are the famous American artists and writers expatriated in Paris (betwen 1910 and 1940) who haven't one day been drawn to the South of France : Provence and the Riviera, most specfically. The "lost generation" was there in the 1920s : John Dos Passos, Ernest Hemingway and Scott Fitzgerald who made of Antibes their land of pleasures ; each summer, they met in the " villa America", a famous house owned by the painter and dandy Gerald Murphy .The South has also attracted radical writers such as the African American author Claude McKay who, promoted by Jean Ballard's "Cahiers du Sud", wrote in Marseilles one of his most significant novels : "Banjo". Such as John Reed who discovered in Marseilles a" romantic", "splendid" and "virile" city. The whole region was painted by artists for whom nature has remained a creative machine : William Glackens called the "American Renoir"; Stanton Macdonald-Wright who settled in Cassis and painted by the Cap Canaille some of his first synchromist landscapes (eg : "Cassis Polychrome") ; Marsden Hartley who lived in Aix-en-Provence, haunted by C?zanne's Sainte-Victoire ; Man Ray who sojourned in Marseilles. He loved its popular and noisy Canebi?re, and photographed its "Pont Transbordeur", symbol of modernity as renown in France as the Brooklyn Bridge. For these creators, the South was a garden of Eden. They found freedom, a vibrant light, daring contrasts of colors, a pristine nature, and a Mediterranean way of life. When the war broke out, first in 1914 and later in 1940, the South turned into a land of refuge. In 1917 Morgan Russell, Blaise Cendrars's friend, Ieft Paris under the German bombs for Le Cannet. He forsook for a time his synchromist investigation to address the Masters of the Italian Renaissance ; in Nice, Alexander Archipenko sculpted figures of bathers in a modernistic and unprecedented language. In 1940, the South - now a " free zone" - was a land of transit where hope met despair. HeroIc figures came to the front stage, who endangered their lifes to save artists and intellectuals pursued by the Nazis. These heroes were : Varian Fry, Miriam Davenport, Mary Jayne Gold and the American vice-consul in Marseilles Hiram Bingham. Their sphere of activity was Marseilles. And all ends up or starts again with the novelist Jim Harrison who seems to reopen the road to the South. Since the tragedy of September 11, he has even more reasons to come to Arles or Marseilles. To him there may be no better way to fight against terrorism than to drink red wine and eat garlic. "Au Sud d'Eden" is mainly based on unpublished material belonging to the Archives of American Art, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C, the National Archives, the MOMA, and to French archives such as the BMVR, and the Archives d?partementales in Marseilles. It brings to light another image of Provence and the Riviera and shows how the region, its culture, artists and landscapes had a major influence on the American arts and literature of this period. THE AUTHOR: Jocelyne Rotily is an art historian. She taught at the University of Provence, Harvard University, and at New York University and Columbia University (in Paris). She is the author of Artistes am?ricains ? Paris 1914-1940, published by L'Harmattan, and of many articles published in L'Infini , Critique , Gazette des Beaux-Arts , Le Bulletin c?linien, and Les M?langes de l'Ecole de Rome. She recently contributed to the writing of the exhibition catalogue : A Transatlantic Avant-GardeAmerican Artists in Paris, 1918-1939. Her work has been supported by the Smithsonian Institution, the Roberto Longhi Foundation, the Ecole Fran?aise de Rome, and the Singer-Polignac Foundation. Her main fields of interest are the French American cultural relations and African American arts. TO BUY AU SUD D'EDEN , you may order it through www.amazon.fr For more information regarding Au Sud d'Eden, please contact : ACFA Editions 23, avenue Guy de Maupassant 13008 Marseilles, France E-mail : acfa1 at aliceadsl.fr Fax : 33 (0)4 91 77 98 08 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Aug 29 11:23:00 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:23:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize Message-ID: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Christian Barter, The Singers I Prefer (CavanKerry Press) Jack Gilbert, Refusing Heaven (Knopf) Dorianne Laux, Facts About the Moon (W.W. Norton) Eleanor Lerman, Our Post Soviet History Unfolds (Sarabande Press) Ron Slate, The Incentive of the Maggot (Mariner Books) Gilbert looks like the favorite. Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 11:43:45 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:43:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <648208b60608290843y415828f7yfb26bf875a8fdd05@mail.gmail.com> Split it 6 ways, #6 being The School of Quiet Dudes - Jim On 8/29/06, TheOldMole wrote: > > Christian Barter, *The Singers I Prefer* (CavanKerry Press) > Jack Gilbert , *Refusing Heaven > * (Knopf) > Dorianne Laux , *Facts About the > Moon* (W.W. Norton) > Eleanor Lerman, *Our Post Soviet History Unfolds* (Sarabande Press) > Ron Slate, *The Incentive of the Maggot* (Mariner Books) > > > Gilbert looks like the favorite. > > > Tad Richards > www.opus40.org > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org ~ http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning ~ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html ~ http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acgold01 at louisville.edu Tue Aug 29 11:39:15 2006 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:39:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CFP: 20C Literature and Culture Conference Message-ID: <44F42763020000040063CACF@gwise.louisville.edu> The thirty-fifth annual 20th-Century Literature and Culture Conference Call for Papers ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FEATURED SPEAKERS SHERMAN ALEXIE MLADEN DOLAR LAURA KIPNIS BRUCE ROBBINS PERLA SUEZ ALENKA ZUPANCIC ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Submission Guidelines The thirty-fifth annual 20th-Century Literature and Culture Conference will be held at the University of Louisville, February 22-24, 2007. Critical papers may be submitted on any topic that addresses literary works published since 1900, and/or their relationship with other Arts and disciplines(film, journalism, opera, music, pop culture, painting, architecture, law, etc.). Work by creative writers is also welcome. Submissions may be in English, French, German, Italian or Spanish. Deadline for submission is September 15, 2006 (postmarked). Critical Submissions. Submit 3 copies of a 250-300 word abstract (double-spaced and titled) omitting all references to the author, together with 2 copies of a cover sheet (see details below). Previously presented or published papers are not eligible. Accepted submitters will receive notification by e-mail in early December. Registration materials will accompany the official letter of acceptance in early December. The completed paper (suitable for 20-minute reading) is to be delivered to the section chair before the Conference. Critical panels pre-organized by participants are welcome. Panel proposals should include a) 3 copies of each abstract, (b) 2 cover sheets per participant, (c) rationale for grouping papers, and (d) name and address of panel organizer. Panel presentation (ideally 3 papers) not to exceed 90 minutes. Please submit all panel papers together in the same mailing. Creative submissions. Submit 2 copies of poetry or short fiction/nonfiction, selections suitable for 20-minute reading. Submitter's name to appear on the cover sheet only (see details below). Creative submissions may be published or unpublished works. Manuscripts cannot be returned. Submitters may submit both a critical paper and a creative work, not to exceed one entry in each category: sent together in the same mailing. Group Societies, Editorial Collectives and other such associations are welcome. Panel organizers should email the proposal to Danielle Day dlday at louisville.edu. Please include together, title of panel, and all participants names, addresses, email addresses, academic affiliation, and titles. Submitter's cover sheet (2 copies) to include: * Name (as it will appear in the program) * Address (preferably home address since materials are sent out early in December) * E-mail address (necessary to confirm your acceptance) * Telephone number * Academic affiliation (if applicable) * Title of paper/work (as it will appear in the program) * National origin/genre of work discussed (please be specific) * Personal biographical note, (100-150 words) Electronic submissions will not be considered. Section Chairs. Non-submitters and submitters are encouraged to chair a session. Please submit a brief CV specifying your area(s) of interest. Registration * Presenter, presenter-chair * Regular $ 80 no onsite registration * Grad student $ 50 no onsite registration * Section chair $ 40 no onsite registration * Guest (per day) $ 10 Presenters must remit fees by January 15, 2007 Send all submissions and correspondence to: Danielle Day, Conference Director Dept of Classical & Modern Languages University of Louisville, Louisville KY 40292 Inquiries: dlday at louisville.edu Website: www.louisville.edu/a-s/cml/xxconf Consult our website for additional conference information. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 29 12:14:45 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:14:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <00e601c6cb86$3e9eab80$14aa3252@ANNY> DUST Someone spoke to me last night, told me the truth. Just a few words, but I recognized it. I knew I should make myself get up, write it down, but it was late, and I was exhausted from working all day in the garden, moving rocks. Now, I remember only the flavor-- not like food, sweet or sharp. More like a fine powder, like dust. And I wasn't elated or frightened, but simply rapt, aware. That's how it is sometimes-- God comes to your window, all bright light and black wings, and you're just too tired to open it. -from What We Carry Dorianne Laux NEVER AGAIN THE SAME Speaking of sunsets, last night's was shocking. I mean, sunsets aren't supposed to frighten you, are they? Well, this one was terrifying. Sure, it was beautiful, but far too beautiful. It wasn't natural. One climax followed another and then another until your knees went weak and you couldn't breathe. The colors were definitely not of this world, peaches dripping opium, pandemonium of tangerines, inferno of irises, Plutonian emeralds, all swirling and churning, swabbing, like it was playing with us, like we were nothing, as if our whole lives were a preparation for this, this for which nothing could have prepared us and for which we could not have been less prepared. The mockery of it all stung us bitterly. And when it was finally over we whimpered and cried and howled. And then the streetlights came on as always and we looked into one another's eyes-- ancient caves with still pools and those little transparent fish who have never seen even one ray of light. And the calm that returned to us was not even our own. Dorianne Laux, from the net. ----- Original Message ----- From: TheOldMole To: NewPo Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize Christian Barter, The Singers I Prefer (CavanKerry Press) Jack Gilbert, Refusing Heaven (Knopf) Dorianne Laux, Facts About the Moon (W.W. Norton) Eleanor Lerman, Our Post Soviet History Unfolds (Sarabande Press) Ron Slate, The Incentive of the Maggot (Mariner Books) Gilbert looks like the favorite. Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Aug 29 15:35:53 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:35:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] database of women visual poets Message-ID: <016501c6cba2$578a4de0$14aa3252@ANNY> Good morning, all! K.S. (Kathy) Ernst and I have conferred about upcoming projects regarding the presentation of female visual poets. We are looking to build a database of contact information for women on several continents, so that we may look at what is possible relative to exhibitions (likely, a traveling exhibition initially) and books that would go with same. Specific calls for work will follow, but for now we want to accumulate a "who's who" compendium. I would appreciate your circulating widely a call for the following information and sending the information to me backchannel at: sheila dot murphy at gmail dot com We mainly want: Name Mailing Address Email Address Any further information about media in which the visual poet works, great, too. If everyone can respond with known individuals, including yourselves, it will be appreciated. The goal is to obtain as comprehensive a list of (1) living women visual poets who have done visual poetry in the latter half of hte 20th Century and (2) women who are actively working in visual poetry now. Definition of visual poetry is deliberately open. Thanks! Sheila Murphy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Aug 29 17:48:19 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:48:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wakoski help Message-ID: <008a01c6cbb4$d7ebe270$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I need a copy of Diane Wakoski's "Justice is Reason Enough" right away and I can't find the book I have it in. Can anyone backchannel? tad at opus40.org Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 29 18:59:27 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:59:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] minor poet Message-ID: <365.d22e0c7.322620cf@aol.com> My name is OZYMINORIS, poet among Poets. Look on my works ye Lowly, and despair! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu Tue Aug 29 19:18:55 2006 From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:18:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> Christian Barter, /The Singers I Prefer/ (CavanKerry Press) Jack Gilbert , /Refusing Heaven/ (Knopf) Dorianne Laux , /Facts About the Moon/ (W.W. Norton) Eleanor Lerman, /Our Post Soviet History Unfolds/ (Sarabande Press) Ron Slate, /The Incentive of the Maggot/ (Mariner Books) Gilbert looks like the favorite. Tad Richards ----------------------------------------------------- For those unfamiliar with Jack Gilbert's poetry, here is one of his best, but not a poem for men too young... Failing and Flying by Jack Gilbert Everyone forgets that Icarus also flew. It's the same when love comes to an end, or the marriage fails and people say they knew it was a mistake, that everybody said it would never work. That she was old enough to know better. But anything worth doing is worth doing badly. Like being there by that summer ocean on the other side of the island while love was fading out of her, the stars burning so extravagantly those nights that anyone could tell you they would never last. Every morning she was asleep in my bed like a visitation, the gentleness in her like antelope standing in the dawn mist. Each afternoon I watched her coming back through the hot stony field after swimming, the sea light behind her and the huge sky on the other side of that. Listened to her while we ate lunch. How can they say the marriage failed? Like the people who came back from Provence (when it was Provence) and said it was pretty but the food was greasy. I believe Icarus was not failing as he fell, but just coming to the end of his triumph. ------------------------------------------- Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 29 21:45:22 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:45:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure Message-ID: In a message dated 8/28/2006 8:25:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes: Stevens (another interesting case who in no way could be claimed as an English poet but isn't American in the way WCW is, or Pound) Stevens was a French poet who happened to have been born in Redding, Pennsylvania...see poem: ''Even in Paris'' by Richard Howard. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 03:13:22 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:13:22 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0608300013l17e055dcn9256ba02a8304445@mail.gmail.com> On 8/29/06, Richard Wilsnack wrote: > For those unfamiliar with Jack Gilbert's poetry, > here is one of his best, but not a poem for men too young... > > Failing and Flying Which reminds me of Anne Sexton's poem (yes, I heard it on the radio, on *that* show) To a Friend Whose Work Has Come to Triumph Consider Icarus, pasting those sticky wings on, testing that strange little tug at his shoulder blade, and think of that first flawless moment over the lawn of the labyrinth. Think of the difference it made! There below are the trees, as awkward as camels; and here are the shocked starlings pumping past and think of innocent Icarus who is doing quite well. Larger than a sail, over the fog and the blast of the plushy ocean, he goes. Admire his wings! Feel the fire at his neck and see how casually he glances up and is caught, wondrously tunneling into that hot eye. Who cares that he fell back to the sea? See him acclaiming the sun and come plunging down while his sensible daddy goes straight into town. c From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Wed Aug 30 03:19:37 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:19:37 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <0D6A5049-1048-4714-A9AA-B98C21B6426E@bigpond.com> The Gilbert line "...anything worth doing is worth doing badly" reminds me, in a circuitous way, of Leonard Cohen, talking about his friend Irving Layton, who is fond of saying: "Leonard, are you sure you're doing the wrong thing?" On 30/08/2006, at 9:18 AM, Richard Wilsnack wrote: > Christian Barter, The Singers I Prefer (CavanKerry Press) > Jack Gilbert, Refusing Heaven (Knopf) > Dorianne Laux, Facts About the Moon (W.W. Norton) > Eleanor Lerman, Our Post Soviet History Unfolds (Sarabande Press) > Ron Slate, The Incentive of the Maggot (Mariner Books) > > Gilbert looks like the favorite. > > Tad Richards > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > For those unfamiliar with Jack Gilbert's poetry, > here is one of his best, but not a poem for men too young... > > Failing and Flying > > by Jack Gilbert > > Everyone forgets that Icarus also flew. > It's the same when love comes to an end, > or the marriage fails and people say > they knew it was a mistake, that everybody > said it would never work. That she was > old enough to know better. But anything > worth doing is worth doing badly. > Like being there by that summer ocean > on the other side of the island while > love was fading out of her, the stars > burning so extravagantly those nights that > anyone could tell you they would never last. > Every morning she was asleep in my bed > like a visitation, the gentleness in her > like antelope standing in the dawn mist. > Each afternoon I watched her coming back > through the hot stony field after swimming, > the sea light behind her and the huge sky > on the other side of that. Listened to her > while we ate lunch. How can they say > the marriage failed? Like the people who > came back from Provence (when it was Provence) > and said it was pretty but the food was greasy. > I believe Icarus was not failing as he fell, > but just coming to the end of his triumph. > > ------------------------------------------- > > Richard W. Wilsnack > rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Wed Aug 30 03:46:34 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:46:34 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0608300013l17e055dcn9256ba02a8304445@mail.gmail.com> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> <9b1b9dab0608300013l17e055dcn9256ba02a8304445@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thought I'd post a new poem to the list: Communication The way a dog can look at you from somewhere beyond its face might be a projection of my own inability to understand that for some, eye contact can be un- settling to the point of panic attacks or catatonic episodes turning their engines over inside the blood. I once looked at a dog in a way I knew to be confrontational. I looked, then averted my eyes. On turning back, my gaze had been met with an intensity so pure it seemed devotional. I found a sign on the wall of the wrecking yard I'd entered on a walk at the end of a bleak, reclusive time. I studied the sign overlong, and it did no good - the dog came to me where I was kneeling in metal shavings, rust and windshield glass. Its breeding fell somewhere between a malnourished Wolf Hound from Ireland and a bear, and it offered me the mauve striations of its gums, exposed in the way a grin can become a grimace, then transmogrify into a snarl. Its breath contained the breaking-down of a meal of carrion, and I said "Good boy" or "Come on, what's your name?" and I looked for a way to save face. The dog sighed, then made a sound I took to be a decision that clearly, I was not its equal and nowhere near worth the trouble. Having misread the language of the body and its intentions, I stood and made ready to leave. I wanted the dog to look elsewhere from beyond its black-and-tan snouted face. I willed its tail to rise like a flag, signifying walk or fetch, the hair along its spine to remain combed into into place by sun- light and neglect. But the hand I'd begun to extend as a token of a stand-off come to an end was taken and taken, and I'd like to say I have a vague memory of shouting "There's no reason..." but I screamed until, hearing the throat music of submission and alarm, it released me, turned and ran. I lifted my hand in no wave of farewell, and saw the marks of teeth in my skin, and a break in the knuckle where bone was coming through. The dog, meanwhile, had found something else to torment or maim, among car body parts and overturned tins. I left it at that and made for the road, and did not look back to see if my blood were painting the dust. I stared straight ahead like a man for whom contact with the eyes of dogs and humans, when made and mirrored with bleak intention, had returned him to a place where communication leads to nothing but remorse and grief and harm. From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 09:13:59 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:13:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <0D6A5049-1048-4714-A9AA-B98C21B6426E@bigpond.com> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> <0D6A5049-1048-4714-A9AA-B98C21B6426E@bigpond.com> Message-ID: On 8/30/06, Anthony Lawrence wrote: > > The Gilbert line "...anything > worth doing is worth doing badly" > reminds me, in a circuitous way, of Leonard Cohen, talking about his > friend Irving Layton, who is fond of saying: > "Leonard, are you sure you're doing the wrong thing?" > Oh that is soooooo Leonard Cohen! I love it! Once again, this is a fine shortlist list of poets, and I agree with others that Gilbert is the obvious choice-- if for no other reason than to recognize his status as an "elder statesmen". I think people are finally realizing that he has been vastly under-recognized. How many prizes has this book gleaned so far? Would this be the third? Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 10:29:55 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 06:29:55 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu> <0D6A5049-1048-4714-A9AA-B98C21B6426E@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0608300729o1c03c0c9x15df5db61d166052@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/06, Suzanne Burns wrote: > I think people are finally > realizing that he has been vastly under-recognized. How many prizes has > this book gleaned so far? Would this be the third? Better late than never. I don't think _Refusing Heaven_ is nearly as strong as his earliest books, but it's all on a continuum above most other poets of his type. c From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 30 11:34:27 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:34:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gilbert In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0608300729o1c03c0c9x15df5db61d166052@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The vagaries of fame are always a puzzle, but I seem to recall that Jack Gilbert was at least a collaborator in the fate of his own reputation. After winning what was at the time *the* most coveted poetry award, didn't he more or less turn his back on Po-Biz for a long long time? And didn't this Garbo-like move help, in fact, to cement his reputation? In any case, this underrecognized poet has in his time managed to snag the Yale Younger Prize, a Guggenheim, N.E.A. & other fellowships, the National Book Critics Circle Award, and a couple Pulitzer nominations, among other plums. Nothing against Gilbert's work, but I do have a hard time seeing him as in any real sense unappreciated. On 8/30/06 9:29 AM, "Chris Lott" wrote: > On 8/30/06, Suzanne Burns wrote: >> I think people are finally >> realizing that he has been vastly under-recognized. How many prizes has >> this book gleaned so far? Would this be the third? > > Better late than never. I don't think _Refusing Heaven_ is nearly as > strong as his earliest books, but it's all on a continuum above most > other poets of his type. > > c ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 30 12:20:03 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:20:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Looking at book blurbs from prior eras is all it takes to make you a little tentative on making confident predictions about who will last. . . . but even so, it's a game hard to resist. Enough time has passed, I think, to indicate that, just by influence alone, Lowell and Sexton have showed remarkable staying power. No poetic history of the past half century could fail to emphasize the confessional strand, and they seem to me to have had the most direct heirs. I'd also add Adrienne Rich to the list, for the same reason: hard to imagine the past few decades of American poetry without her rather towering influence. Similarly with Olson, though that's a branch of American poetry I find less and less compelling with time--there are a lot of poets still blooming on it. On 8/29/06 12:51 AM, "Rochelle Nameroff" wrote: > Mary Oliver will last. And Allen Ginsberg is still a major poet, both > in production and influence. "Howl" is as great and as important as > "The Wasteland." James Wright, Elizabeth Bishop, Sylvia Plath and Anne > Sexton have also created significant bodies of work and influence. > > Shelley Nameroff > On Aug 28, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> And I was calling for a list of major poets only > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 13:04:13 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:04:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gilbert In-Reply-To: References: <9b1b9dab0608300729o1c03c0c9x15df5db61d166052@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 8/30/06, David Graham wrote: The vagaries of fame are always a puzzle, but I seem to recall that Jack > Gilbert was at least a collaborator in the fate of his own reputation. > After winning what was at the time *the* most coveted poetry award, didn't > he more or less turn his back on Po-Biz for a long long time? > > And didn't this Garbo-like move help, in fact, to cement his > reputation? In > any case, this underrecognized poet has in his time managed to snag the > Yale > Younger Prize, a Guggenheim, N.E.A. & other fellowships, the National Book > Critics Circle Award, and a couple Pulitzer nominations, among other > plums. > > Nothing against Gilbert's work, but I do have a hard time seeing him as in > any real sense unappreciated. I don't see him as underappreciated per se (he tends to be a favorite among poets), but aside from the Yale Prize and the fellowships (you forgot the Lannan!) he was passed up for the bigger awards. After The Great Fires, I found this puzzling. Considering that he got everything he did for a rather small output, though, you do have a strong point. And didn't this Garbo-like move help, in fact, to cement his reputation? Yes, and personally I think that he deeply relishes his "outsider" reputation, and tends to make a point of bringing it up in every interview. He is awfully fond of the words "fierce" and "stubborn". There have been many, many times when this has struck me as "protesting too much". I think there is also a tendency among many of his biggest fans to idolize what he stands for in their imagination almost as much as his poetry-- I don't think Jack deliberately engineered this response, but I do think it is true that everybody just loves the "Romantic" image of the Poet. All that said, I am still glad to see what is likely to be his final book given some big recognition. He has so many "almosts", and I do think it is earned. My two bits, Suzanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 30 13:06:25 2006 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:06:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gilbert In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C89A6DC2EB5F90-152C-214C@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Have to agree with David here. There was a point when Gilbert was more famous for not writing than for writing. That having been said, his work has always been of a remarkably high and consistent quality. Maybe, infact, a little too consistent. I'd be hard put to tell a poem from Views of Jeopardy from a poem from Refusing heaven. -----Original Message----- From: grahamd at ripon.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:34 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Gilbert The vagaries of fame are always a puzzle, but I seem to recall that Jack Gilbert was at least a collaborator in the fate of his own reputation. After winning what was at the time *the* most coveted poetry award, didn't he more or less turn his back on Po-Biz for a long long time? And didn't this Garbo-like move help, in fact, to cement his reputation? In any case, this underrecognized poet has in his time managed to snag the Yale Younger Prize, a Guggenheim, N.E.A. & other fellowships, the National Book Critics Circle Award, and a couple Pulitzer nominations, among other plums. Nothing against Gilbert's work, but I do have a hard time seeing him as in any real sense unappreciated. On 8/30/06 9:29 AM, "Chris Lott" wrote: > On 8/30/06, Suzanne Burns wrote: >> I think people are finally >> realizing that he has been vastly under-recognized. How many prizes has >> this book gleaned so far? Would this be the third? > > Better late than never. I don't think _Refusing Heaven_ is nearly as > strong as his earliest books, but it's all on a continuum above most > other poets of his type. > > c ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 30 13:13:11 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:13:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Gilbert In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll admit to a fairly deep distaste for the Bardic Persona, which Gilbert appears to have in spades. (I heard him read in public once, and almost walked out--he seemed so in love with his own work that there was little room for poor me to join in.) But that's apart from the poems themselves, really, which at their best are powerful and, yes, stubbornly fierce in a most memorable way. ---------------- On 8/30/06 12:04 PM, "Suzanne Burns" wrote: > I don't see him as underappreciated per se (he tends to be a favorite among > poets), but aside from the Yale Prize and the fellowships (you forgot the > Lannan!) he was passed up for the bigger awards. After The Great Fires, I > found this puzzling. > > Considering that he got everything he did for a rather small output, though, > you do have a strong point. > > And didn't this Garbo-like move help, in fact, to cement his reputation? > > > Yes, and personally I think that he deeply relishes his "outsider" > reputation, and tends to make a point of bringing it up in every interview. > He is awfully fond of the words "fierce" and "stubborn". There have been > many, many times when this has struck me as "protesting too much". > > I think there is also a tendency among many of his biggest fans to idolize > what he stands for in their imagination almost as much as his poetry-- I don't > think Jack deliberately engineered this response, but I do think it is true > that everybody just loves the "Romantic" image of the Poet. > > All that said, I am still glad to see what is likely to be his final book > given some big recognition. He has so many "almosts", and I do think it is > earned. > > My two bits, > > Suzanne ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 14:03:58 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:03:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Gilbert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/30/06, David Graham wrote: > > I'll admit to a fairly deep distaste for the Bardic Persona, which > Gilbert appears to have in spades. (I heard him read in public once, and > almost walked out--he seemed so in love with his own work that there was > little room for poor me to join in.) > I have a great love for his work. Always have always will. For me it is *in spite of* the persona though, rather than because of it. I'm probably a little too close to comment on this-- I once knew Jack extremely well. (For very personal reasons having nothing to do with poetry, I parted ways with him). My first impression of him was not a good one at all (we met at one of his readings), and I almost dropped out of a workshop because I disliked him so much. I was glad I gave his work a chance though, and was glad I got to know his thoughts better as time went on. He has a great talent, a fine mind, and a great deal to say. I like to see that recognized. I too though get a little irritated when I hear people go all starry-eyed over the romantic persona-- which in my opinion is just one big collective fantasy. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 30 14:05:02 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:05:02 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress><44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu><9b1b9dab0608300013l17e055dcn9256ba02a8304445@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006c01c6cc5e$d119a9f0$ccad3452@ANNY> Dogs are sometimes strange creatures, even if I would love to have one... See if you want to use the double _into_? I willed its tail to rise > like a flag, signifying walk or fetch, > the hair along its spine to remain > combed into into place by sun- > light and neglect. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Lawrence" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize > Thought I'd post a new poem to the list: > > Communication > > The way a dog can look at you > from somewhere beyond its face > might be a projection of my own > inability to understand that > for some, eye contact can be un- > settling to the point of panic attacks > or catatonic episodes turning > their engines over inside the blood. > I once looked at a dog in a way > I knew to be confrontational. > I looked, then averted my eyes. > On turning back, my gaze > had been met with an intensity > so pure it seemed devotional. > I found a sign on the wall > of the wrecking yard I'd entered > on a walk at the end of a bleak, > reclusive time. I studied the sign > overlong, and it did no good - > the dog came to me where I was > kneeling in metal shavings, > rust and windshield glass. > Its breeding fell somewhere > between a malnourished Wolf > Hound from Ireland and a bear, > and it offered me the mauve > striations of its gums, exposed > in the way a grin can become > a grimace, then transmogrify > into a snarl. Its breath contained > the breaking-down of a meal > of carrion, and I said "Good boy" > or "Come on, what's your name?" > and I looked for a way to save face. > The dog sighed, then made a sound > I took to be a decision that > clearly, I was not its equal > and nowhere near worth the trouble. > Having misread the language > of the body and its intentions, > I stood and made ready to leave. > I wanted the dog to look elsewhere > from beyond its black-and-tan > snouted face. I willed its tail to rise > like a flag, signifying walk or fetch, > the hair along its spine to remain > combed into into place by sun- > light and neglect. But the hand > I'd begun to extend as a token > of a stand-off come to an end > was taken and taken, and I'd like > to say I have a vague memory > of shouting "There's no reason..." > but I screamed until, hearing > the throat music of submission > and alarm, it released me, turned > and ran. I lifted my hand in no wave > of farewell, and saw the marks > of teeth in my skin, and a break > in the knuckle where bone > was coming through. The dog, > meanwhile, had found something else > to torment or maim, among car > body parts and overturned tins. > I left it at that and made for the road, > and did not look back to see > if my blood were painting the dust. > I stared straight ahead like a man > for whom contact with the eyes > of dogs and humans, when made > and mirrored with bleak intention, > had returned him to a place > where communication leads to nothing > but remorse and grief and harm. > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 30 14:26:55 2006 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:26:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c6cc61$e5b0c8a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Who do you think wrote more blurbs than any other poet of our time? Any guesses? (I think I know the answer, but I could be wrong.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:20 AM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Taking Kooser's measure Looking at book blurbs from prior eras is all it takes to make you a little tentative on making confident predictions about who will last. . . . but even so, it's a game hard to resist. Enough time has passed, I think, to indicate that, just by influence alone, Lowell and Sexton have showed remarkable staying power. No poetic history of the past half century could fail to emphasize the confessional strand, and they seem to me to have had the most direct heirs. I'd also add Adrienne Rich to the list, for the same reason: hard to imagine the past few decades of American poetry without her rather towering influence. Similarly with Olson, though that's a branch of American poetry I find less and less compelling with time--there are a lot of poets still blooming on it. On 8/29/06 12:51 AM, "Rochelle Nameroff" wrote: > Mary Oliver will last. And Allen Ginsberg is still a major poet, both > in production and influence. "Howl" is as great and as important as > "The Wasteland." James Wright, Elizabeth Bishop, Sylvia Plath and Anne > Sexton have also created significant bodies of work and influence. > > Shelley Nameroff > On Aug 28, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > >> And I was calling for a list of major poets only > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Aug 30 14:38:42 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:38:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><09f101c6ca8f$05c18320$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><009401c6cb00$3c328460$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004001c6cc63$861e5040$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> I must admit I am finding this all hard to take on board, but, Rochelle, 'Mary Oliver will last' ???? What on earth are you talking about? The problem is quite simply that because the USA became the world's major economic power post 1945 an assumption came with it that it must have major poetic figures, as there was so much money sloshing around in the US higher education system, the two things do not necessarily equate. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rochelle Nameroff" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Mary Oliver will last. And Allen Ginsberg is still a major poet, both > in production and influence. "Howl" is as great and as important as > "The Wasteland." James Wright, Elizabeth Bishop, Sylvia Plath and Anne > Sexton have also created significant bodies of work and influence. > > Shelley Nameroff > On Aug 28, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > And I was calling for a list of major poets only > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 30 14:59:10 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:59:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: <001901c6cc61$e5b0c8a0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: Based on some summer travels in which I looked at a lot of bookstore shelves, I'd venture to guess: Billy Collins. On 8/30/06 1:26 PM, "Skip Fox" wrote: > Who do you think wrote more blurbs than any other poet of our time? Any > guesses? (I think I know the answer, but I could be wrong.) ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 16:10:03 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:10:03 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <004001c6cc63$861e5040$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <001101c6ca89$64847350$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <09f101c6ca8f$05c18320$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <009401c6cb00$3c328460$4bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004001c6cc63$861e5040$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: and this doesn't apply to the uk? On 8/30/06, David Bircumshaw wrote: > I must admit I am finding this all hard to take on board, but, Rochelle, > 'Mary Oliver will last' ???? > > What on earth are you talking about? > > The problem is quite simply that because the USA became the world's major > economic power post 1945 an assumption came with it that it must have major > poetic figures, as there was so much money sloshing around in the US higher > education system, the two things do not necessarily equate. > > Dave > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rochelle Nameroff" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:51 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > > > Mary Oliver will last. And Allen Ginsberg is still a major poet, both > > in production and influence. "Howl" is as great and as important as > > "The Wasteland." James Wright, Elizabeth Bishop, Sylvia Plath and Anne > > Sexton have also created significant bodies of work and influence. > > > > Shelley Nameroff > > On Aug 28, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > And I was calling for a list of major poets only > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From rog3r.day at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 16:10:09 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:10:09 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. You can take Shakespeare out behind the woodshed and shot him as well. Without that multi-million pound industry propping him up, he'd be considered shite. Roger On 8/28/06, David Bircumshaw wrote: > Rob wrote: > > Thus (in my terms) Donne > > > is major, Wyatt minor. > > Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for > what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for example, > Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a major > poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone asked > whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that > effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare > or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young > culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan > Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster? > There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature and > poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not equal > a top-notch poet. > Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist. > > Blagued in the Bar > > D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve moore" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:51 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > > > I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a > > matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that > > push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within > > current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The > > distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major > > poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better > > poet (I say with a certain smugness). > > > > > Re Berryman and Dream Songs: > > > > > >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, > > >> it's, erm, > > >> obvious. > > > > > > dave -- > > > > > > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? > > > > > > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the > > > instance > > > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. > > > > > > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of > > > [the] level > > > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the > > > moment.) > > > > > > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd > > > place Berryman as a minor poet. > > > > > > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction > > > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you > > > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were > > > worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of > > > sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne > > > is major, Wyatt minor. > > > > > > R. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 30 16:36:57 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:36:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Speaking of blurbs . . . Message-ID: <3ba.21793c00.322750e9@aol.com> In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:26:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip at louisiana.edu writes: X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE Who do you think wrote more blurbs than any other poet of our time? Any guesses? (I think I know the answer, but I could be wrong.) William Matthews wrote a bunch. In hte southeast, I'd guess that Fred Chappell would get that prize. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Wed Aug 30 17:22:40 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:22:40 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize In-Reply-To: <006c01c6cc5e$d119a9f0$ccad3452@ANNY> References: <002301c6cb7f$0414e080$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress><44F4CB5F.60701@medicine.nodak.edu><9b1b9dab0608300013l17e055dcn9256ba02a8304445@mail.gmail.com> <006c01c6cc5e$d119a9f0$ccad3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <3DADC215-896A-4872-9C80-B47CFEEA0298@bigpond.com> That one slipped through an antibiotic net On 31/08/2006, at 4:05 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Dogs are sometimes strange creatures, even if I would love to have > one... > See if you want to use the double _into_? > > I willed its tail to rise > > like a flag, signifying walk or fetch, > > the hair along its spine to remain > > combed into into place by sun- > > light and neglect. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anthony Lawrence" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:46 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Finalists for the Lenore Marshall Prize > > > Thought I'd post a new poem to the list: > > > > Communication > > > > The way a dog can look at you > > from somewhere beyond its face > > might be a projection of my own > > inability to understand that > > for some, eye contact can be un- > > settling to the point of panic attacks > > or catatonic episodes turning > > their engines over inside the blood. > > I once looked at a dog in a way > > I knew to be confrontational. > > I looked, then averted my eyes. > > On turning back, my gaze > > had been met with an intensity > > so pure it seemed devotional. > > I found a sign on the wall > > of the wrecking yard I'd entered > > on a walk at the end of a bleak, > > reclusive time. I studied the sign > > overlong, and it did no good - > > the dog came to me where I was > > kneeling in metal shavings, > > rust and windshield glass. > > Its breeding fell somewhere > > between a malnourished Wolf > > Hound from Ireland and a bear, > > and it offered me the mauve > > striations of its gums, exposed > > in the way a grin can become > > a grimace, then transmogrify > > into a snarl. Its breath contained > > the breaking-down of a meal > > of carrion, and I said "Good boy" > > or "Come on, what's your name?" > > and I looked for a way to save face. > > The dog sighed, then made a sound > > I took to be a decision that > > clearly, I was not its equal > > and nowhere near worth the trouble. > > Having misread the language > > of the body and its intentions, > > I stood and made ready to leave. > > I wanted the dog to look elsewhere > > from beyond its black-and-tan > > snouted face. I willed its tail to rise > > like a flag, signifying walk or fetch, > > the hair along its spine to remain > > combed into into place by sun- > > light and neglect. But the hand > > I'd begun to extend as a token > > of a stand-off come to an end > > was taken and taken, and I'd like > > to say I have a vague memory > > of shouting "There's no reason..." > > but I screamed until, hearing > > the throat music of submission > > and alarm, it released me, turned > > and ran. I lifted my hand in no wave > > of farewell, and saw the marks > > of teeth in my skin, and a break > > in the knuckle where bone > > was coming through. The dog, > > meanwhile, had found something else > > to torment or maim, among car > > body parts and overturned tins. > > I left it at that and made for the road, > > and did not look back to see > > if my blood were painting the dust. > > I stared straight ahead like a man > > for whom contact with the eyes > > of dogs and humans, when made > > and mirrored with bleak intention, > > had returned him to a place > > where communication leads to nothing > > but remorse and grief and harm. > > > > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Aug 30 17:26:07 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:26:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: <3ba.21793c00.322750e9@aol.com> Message-ID: Gerald Stern may have eased up some in recent years, but for a while there he was a champion blurbist just in terms of productivity. And extravagance too--every new book seemed to make him weep with joy and remind him of Dante. In contrast, I still remember Galway Kinnell writing, in a blurb for Jared Carter, that the book was "agreeable." Probably just being accurate, but in the fevered world of blurbs, it seemed rather like a put-down. On 8/30/06 3:36 PM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:26:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > skip at louisiana.edu writes: >> X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE >> Who do you think wrote more blurbs than any other poet of our time? Any >> guesses? (I think I know the answer, but I could be wrong.) >> >> > William Matthews wrote a bunch. In hte southeast, I'd guess that Fred Chappell > would get that prize. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 30 17:45:28 2006 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:45:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c6cc7d$a2228f30$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Matthews? Collins? Stern? Good guesses, but I the poet who I am thinking of wrote more than all three combined. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:26 PM To: NewPoetry Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . Gerald Stern may have eased up some in recent years, but for a while there he was a champion blurbist just in terms of productivity. And extravagance too--every new book seemed to make him weep with joy and remind him of Dante. In contrast, I still remember Galway Kinnell writing, in a blurb for Jared Carter, that the book was "agreeable." Probably just being accurate, but in the fevered world of blurbs, it seemed rather like a put-down. On 8/30/06 3:36 PM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" wrote: In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:26:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip at louisiana.edu writes: X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE Who do you think wrote more blurbs than any other poet of our time? Any guesses? (I think I know the answer, but I could be wrong.) William Matthews wrote a bunch. In hte southeast, I'd guess that Fred Chappell would get that prize. _____ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Aug 30 17:52:45 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:52:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . Message-ID: <4a1.7b05f000.322762ad@cs.com> Richard Howard, hands down. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Aug 30 18:05:44 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:05:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . Message-ID: In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:27:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Gerald Stern may have eased up some in recent years, but for a while there he was a champion blurbist just in terms of productivity. And extravagance too--every new book seemed to make him weep with joy and remind him of Dante. In contrast, I still remember Galway Kinnell writing, in a blurb for Jared Carter, that the book was "agreeable." Probably just being accurate, but in the fevered world of blurbs, it seemed rather like a put-down. I think it was for the book Lovesick that Gerald Stern got a blurb from Philip Levine that went something like: "A few of these poems are among the best he's written." (rough paraphrase). Pretty tepid...and could be taken as even less than that depending on how the word "best" is read. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Wed Aug 30 18:10:10 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:10:10 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Now, now, Roger. Donne has not only just been dug out of the wood pile, as you well know, for sure, in the Augustan period, with its one style hegemony, he was seriously out of fashion, but that was an age that had Dryden as its dubious literary god and forebear, not that the double-dealing bays couldn't write, but ... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Day" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > > You can take Shakespeare out behind the woodshed and shot him as well. > Without that multi-million pound industry propping him up, he'd be > considered shite. > > Roger > > On 8/28/06, David Bircumshaw wrote: > > Rob wrote: > > > > Thus (in my terms) Donne > > > > is major, Wyatt minor. > > > > Yup, and the notion of Donne as a major poet is a kind of touchstone for > > what we are talking about. There are distinctions to be made: for example, > > Seamus Heaney is a major poet of +our time+, but not instrinsically a major > > poet, I think this area is where the confusion is setting in. Someone asked > > whether I think there are any 'great' American poets, or words to that > > effect, and if the question is 'great poets' in the sense that Shakespeare > > or Dante are well the answer is no, obviously. America is still a young > > culture: England as a bedraggled entity was about 500 years old when Dan > > Geoffrey appreared, why should you expect anything to happen faster? > > There certainly 'great' figures in the context of American literature and > > poetry, great innovators too (!), but an interesting inventor doth not equal > > a top-notch poet. > > Otherwise we'd all worship at the Shrine of the Mad Scientist. > > > > Blagued in the Bar > > > > D > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "steve moore" > > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 6:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > > > > > > > I've always understood the distinction between major and minor as a > > > matter of innovation. Those poets that are leaders of movements, that > > > push beyond the tradition, are major. Those that work from within > > > current ideas about poetry and from the tradition are minor. The > > > distinction has nothing to do with quality. Thus, Pound is a major > > > poet, while Thomas is minor. Even though clearly Thomas is the better > > > poet (I say with a certain smugness). > > > > > > > Re Berryman and Dream Songs: > > > > > > > >> Well if you just look at the incidence of level accent in them, > > > >> it's, erm, > > > >> obvious. > > > > > > > > dave -- > > > > > > > > Could you untease "incidence of level accent" a bit? > > > > > > > > I think I disagree with you over Berryman, but I'm not sure in the > > > > instance > > > > above exactly what I'm disagreeing with. > > > > > > > > (Mind you, I originally misread what you typed as "incidence of > > > > [the] level > > > > [of] accent," so I'm obviously not at my best and brightest at the > > > > moment.) > > > > > > > > Incidentally, if we're playing the great/major/minor game, I'd > > > > place Berryman as a minor poet. > > > > > > > > Ages ago, I decided (rightly or wrongly) that the distinction > > > > between a major and a minor poet was that with a major poet, you > > > > could [with reservations] demonstrate to anyone that they were > > > > worth reading. With a minor poet, there has to be a degree of > > > > sympathy with the writing to begin with. Thus (in my terms) Donne > > > > is major, Wyatt minor. > > > > > > > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Aug 30 18:31:34 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:31:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Quoth Roger Day: > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was with Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in +Metaphysical Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. Donne, and the Metaphysicals generally, but Donne more so even than the others, Marvell at least getting in to Palgrave, do seem to constitute an odd case. The norm -- Chaucer, Milton, Dryden, Pope, Wordsworth, Tennyson, Whitman ... -- are usually recognised as "major" in their own lifetimes. Exceptions are William Blake (not till Yeats picks up on him in the 1890s), Emily Dickinson (post the 1950 proper edition of her work) and (still) Anne Bradstreet, despite Berryman's Homage. Wyatt drops out till the early 20thC, post the publication of the poems from the Egerton manuscript, but then Wyatt isn't quite major in these terms. The single common element (if there is one) is that there are +severe+ textual problems in each case -- for much of the time, there simply isn't a text of the writer that reflects what they wrote. And there +still+ isn't an even remotely satisfactory text of Anne Bradstreet. Contrawise, the reistatement seems to turn, at least initially, on the intervention of a living poet -- Eliot and Donne, Yeats and Blake, Larkin and Thomas Hardy. Academics usually play catch-up, and what reinforces the poets' place is that the reading public buy their books. The (self)importance of the academic establishment in the setting up of the [scare quotes] "canon" is much over-rated. I'd even go so far as to say it's a load of bullshit. Academics neither managed to knock Milton off his pedestal nor instate Spenser as a major poet, much as they tried. The public simply didn't, in any sense, buy it. > You can take Shakespeare out behind the woodshed and shot him as well. > Without that multi-million pound industry propping him up, he'd be > considered shite. Bullshit, Roger. You may not like it, like losing an election, but I'm afraid you can't dissolve the public and elect another. You're pissing against the wind of about 400 years of continuous staging of Bill's plays, well before the "multi-million pound industry" was even a twinkle in a spinmeister's eye. This particular nonsense is more usually found in the mouths of paid-up academics like Terence Hawkes. Shame on you! Robin From skip at louisiana.edu Wed Aug 30 18:49:23 2006 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:49:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: <4a1.7b05f000.322762ad@cs.com> Message-ID: <000701c6cc86$8fa1fe00$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Good guess. But not the writer. My information on the "blurbiest" writer is based on a catalog file that Buffalo used to maintain in its Rare Book Room of all the blurbs on every poetry book it received. (Buffalo has the largest collection of 20-Cent. books of poetry in English in the world.) This poet was (hint) nearly a blurb-oholic. His (hint) blurbs took up over 12" of file in the mid-1980s (another hint of sorts). Using the librarian's rule of thumb that an inch of such cards constitutes 100 items, his file contained a list of over 1,200 blurbs written to that time. (At 10 to a page, they could have been the text of a 120 page book.) Few, if any, were taken by the book publishers from reviews, chapters, or articles. That is, he wrote most of them as blurbs. Therefore, his blurbs were often requested. And although he wrote short ones, he also wrote long ones if my memory serves. Hmmmm. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:53 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . Richard Howard, hands down. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Wed Aug 30 18:49:33 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:49:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> dave bircumshaw says: > Now, now, Roger. Donne has not only just been dug out of the wood pile, as > you well know, for sure, in the Augustan period, with its one style > hegemony, he was seriously out of fashion, but that was an age that had > Dryden as its dubious literary god and forebear, not that the > double-dealing > bays couldn't write, but ... And you're wrong too, mate. Wasn't just the Augustans. Dryden, pre-Augustan to start with, and early Augustan at best, was as you note already sceptical about Donne, and for the Romantics (except Coleridge) and the Victorians (except Browning) he might as well not have existed. He's out of sight and out of mind between Dryden and Eliot. (The only poem by "Donne" in the all-too-successful attempt by Palgrave to stamp the image of Tennyson across the face of English poetry wasn't, in fact, by Donne, and is dropped in the second edition. Blake, as a matter of related interest, gradually accumulates more poems in the course of the -- is it three? -- editions of +The Golden Treasury+ published while Palgrave was alive.) The odd thing isn't that Sam Johnson only mentions him in +The Lives of the Poets+ under the rubric of Cowley, but that Johnson goes out of his way to mention him at all. Johnson was working to a remit of lives of all those poets that the consortium of London booksellers at the time knew would sell, and Donne wasn't one. Johnson, bless him, sneaks notice of Donne in through the back door. Didn't do any good at the time -- Donne still had to wait for another hundred and more years before he was let in out of the cold. Robin From fssam6 at uaf.edu Wed Aug 30 20:35:15 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:35:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: <000f01c6cc7d$a2228f30$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> References: <000f01c6cc7d$a2228f30$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Message-ID: <0AB546F0-20D5-40EB-AA76-F76D2FEFC6EF@uaf.edu> Though I'm not sure about quantity, if you account for overwritten gushing (which is actually thinly veiled self-publicizing), I think Jorie Graham would be pretty high up there. On Aug 30, 2006, at 1:45 PM, Skip Fox wrote: > Matthews? Collins? Stern? Good guesses, but I the poet who I am > thinking of wrote more than all three combined. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry- > bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of David Graham > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:26 PM > To: NewPoetry > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . > > > Gerald Stern may have eased up some in recent years, but for a > while there he was a champion blurbist just in terms of > productivity. And extravagance too--every new book seemed to make > him weep with joy and remind him of Dante. > > In contrast, I still remember Galway Kinnell writing, in a blurb > for Jared Carter, that the book was "agreeable." Probably just > being accurate, but in the fevered world of blurbs, it seemed > rather like a put-down. > > > > > On 8/30/06 3:36 PM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" wrote: > > In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:26:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > skip at louisiana.edu writes: > > X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE > Who do you think wrote more blurbs than any other poet of our > time? Any > guesses? (I think I know the answer, but I could be wrong.) > > > William Matthews wrote a bunch. In hte southeast, I'd guess that > Fred Chappell would get that prize. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Wed Aug 30 21:43:30 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:43:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . Message-ID: In a message dated 8/30/2006 8:35:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fssam6 at uaf.edu writes: Matthews? Collins? Stern? Good guesses, but I the poet who I am thinking of wrote more than all three combined. So tell us already... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Aug 30 22:07:16 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:07:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Speaking of blurbs . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would say Gerald Stern or Richard Howard hands down. If we go back a bit, WCW wrote an awfully lot of blurby stuff. Kinnell? Wow, I thought he was opposed on principal to writing blurbs. I'm stuck.... Suzanne On 8/30/06, AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/30/2006 8:35:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > fssam6 at uaf.edu writes: > > Matthews? Collins? Stern? Good guesses, but I the poet who I am thinking > of wrote more than all three combined. > > > > So tell us already... > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." --Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 31 02:12:12 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:12:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: Message-ID: <003a01c6ccc4$66811630$09d83052@ANNY> You know what Finnegan, this makes me weep with joy and reminds me of Dante Gerald Stern From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:45 AM In a message dated 8/28/2006 8:25:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes: Stevens (another interesting case who in no way could be claimed as an English poet but isn't American in the way WCW is, or Pound) Stevens was a French poet who happened to have been born in Redding, Pennsylvania...see poem: ''Even in Paris'' by Richard Howard. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com Thu Aug 31 02:42:29 2006 From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:42:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> I wasa using historical shorthand, Robin, point was that the serious decline in Donne's reputation was in the C18, yup it began in the Reformation, but that was because people like JD were considered old-fashioned, that was a period that, like our own, used to re-write Bill to make him 'contemporary' (our word). For sure C19 official taste didn't pick up on him either, but I'd be wary of saying that reflected actual reading, I think I've told you this, one day, about 10 years ago, when Leicester used to have real bookshops, I came across a copy of GH's 'The Temple' inscribed by a gentleman to his lady in the 1870's, point is that the Metaphysicals were still read, if subterreaneanly to the view of official culture. Btw it wasn't Eliot who re-invented or authorised Donne, it was Herbert Grierson. You can though, as of now, see just how official culture works, in the flood of celebrations on radio and TV of the centenary of the birth of John Betjeman. gawd help us all Grinning in the Gutter Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure > dave bircumshaw says: > > > Now, now, Roger. Donne has not only just been dug out of the wood pile, as > > you well know, for sure, in the Augustan period, with its one style > > hegemony, he was seriously out of fashion, but that was an age that had > > Dryden as its dubious literary god and forebear, not that the > > double-dealing > > bays couldn't write, but ... > > And you're wrong too, mate. Wasn't just the Augustans. Dryden, > pre-Augustan to start with, and early Augustan at best, was as you note > already sceptical about Donne, and for the Romantics (except Coleridge) and > the Victorians (except Browning) he might as well not have existed. > > He's out of sight and out of mind between Dryden and Eliot. > > (The only poem by "Donne" in the all-too-successful attempt by Palgrave to > stamp the image of Tennyson across the face of English poetry wasn't, in > fact, by Donne, and is dropped in the second edition. Blake, as a matter of > related interest, gradually accumulates more poems in the course of the -- > is it three? -- editions of +The Golden Treasury+ published while Palgrave > was alive.) > > The odd thing isn't that Sam Johnson only mentions him in +The Lives of the > Poets+ under the rubric of Cowley, but that Johnson goes out of his way to > mention him at all. Johnson was working to a remit of lives of all those > poets that the consortium of London booksellers at the time knew would sell, > and Donne wasn't one. Johnson, bless him, sneaks notice of Donne in through > the back door. > > Didn't do any good at the time -- Donne still had to wait for another > hundred and more years before he was let in out of the cold. > > Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com Thu Aug 31 02:43:49 2006 From: ajlawrence1 at bigpond.com (Anthony Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:43:49 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] JH Prynne In-Reply-To: <000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: Can I ask what people think of the poetry of Jeremy Prynne? From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 05:32:41 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:32:41 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com> <003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: In historical terms that's "just" - still, these judgements are constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. See the UK current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: > Quoth Roger Day: > > > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > > Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was with > Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in +Metaphysical > Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed > (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. > > You can take Shakespeare out behind the woodshed and shot him as well. > > Without that multi-million pound industry propping him up, he'd be > > considered shite. > > Bullshit, Roger. You may not like it, like losing an election, but I'm > afraid you can't dissolve the public and elect another. You're pissing > against the wind of about 400 years of continuous staging of Bill's plays, > well before the "multi-million pound industry" was even a twinkle in a > spinmeister's eye. This particular nonsense is more usually found in the > mouths of paid-up academics like Terence Hawkes. Shame on you! Well, bollocks to you as well. If that's the case then, take the current prop away and let's see what happens shall we? If he's *that good, then S can continue unaided, sans institutionalised theatres, sans grants, sans curriculum, into the dim and distant future. I wish him and all who sail in him the best of luck ... I shall have to look Terence Hawkes up - he sounds a sensible man. Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "Shakespeare is dust!" From cstroffo at earthlink.net Thu Aug 31 06:09:09 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:09:09 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <003a01c6ccc4$66811630$09d83052@ANNY> References: <003a01c6ccc4$66811630$09d83052@ANNY> Message-ID: <156FA7B6-93CA-4DF0-84BB-76B4A11FD25A@earthlink.net> It's Reading Pennsylvania (by the way)---I was born there too...as American as Luden's cough drops, 5th Avenue Candy bars, pagodas and railroads... On Aug 30, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > You know what Finnegan, > this makes me weep with joy and reminds me of Dante > > Gerald Stern > From: JforJames at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:45 AM > > In a message dated 8/28/2006 8:25:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes: > Stevens (another interesting case who in no way could be > claimed as an English poet but isn't American in the way WCW is, or > Pound) > Stevens was a French poet who happened to have been born in > Redding, Pennsylvania...see poem: ''Even in Paris'' by Richard Howard. > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 07:06:15 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:06:15 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" > In historical terms that's "just" 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. (He also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't last.) It's still a useful yardstick. > - still, these judgements are > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. Nope -- they're organic (though they may be linked into nationality/national identity/whatever). (And OK, all statements like that should carry a last-50-years health warning. Things may have changed.) There's an incredible -- call it either consistency or inertia -- that begins with the contemporary and later judgements on Chaucer and runs (with occasional exceptions) up to Yeats. For much of that time, the academic institutionalisation of English Literature (which is post-1900 --the Latin and Greek classics are another matter) simply didn't exist. (Johnson's +Lives+, which mostly reflects what the public [sic!] were prepared to buy to read in 1770 is pretty conservative in the judgements made as to who's important-- Dryden, Pope, Milton, etc. And is the same as those made in the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Look at the amount of space given to the say ten writers with most space in Johnson and it's virtually identical to that in Norton [with the exception of Donne]. But it does turn on the availability (not the simple existence) of texts -- you can't judge whether or not a writer is worth reading if you can get hold of their work to read. So however the consensus is established -- and it *does exist, for better or worse -- it way predates English academe. Which anyway has always had a higher opinion of it's own power than is really the case. Check out the books which are (and aren't) sold by students at the end of a course, for instance. You can tell them X or Y is "valuable" till the cows come home, and they'll end up, the minute they no longer have to pass an exam, making their own judgements. Except the ones who stay in academe. > See the UK > current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". I'd rather not. I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high school or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree student-driven (for better or worse) -- it's bloody difficult to have a successful course based on writers whom the students are simply ordered to study. At least, the moment any element of student choice comes in. In these terms (though I'm now ten years out of the business) there was never any problem running a course on the Romantics, Victorian, or the Renaissance, including Shakespeare. (Some things like American Literature and Modern Literature were obvious shoo-ins.) The time period that was most difficult to recruit students to study (though not difficult to teach) was the 18thC. Try running a course that only three students sign up for and the course is cancelled. Money, of course -- the powers that be can't (or won't) subsidise a course with a 1:3 staff/student ratio. Robin > > On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: >> Quoth Roger Day: >> >> > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely >> > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. >> >> Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was >> with >> Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in +Metaphysical >> Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed >> (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 07:31:18 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:31:18 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <005301c6ccf1$00f26cb0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "David Bircumshaw" > Btw it wasn't Eliot who re-invented or authorised Donne, it was Herbert > Grierson. Grierson's 1912 edition was a precondition, but not the final factor. His 1923 anthology was (I think) more important. That might have made its way anyway, but Eliot blowing in its sails didn't harm matters. And as with the Blake/Yeats and Hardy/Larkin link, it was as much the *practice of a "major" living writer, as what they said, that was the important factor. Editors alone, while necessary, aren't sufficient in this context. (Hey, dave, I'd be the *last to knock Herbert Grierson -- he was a Scottish Calvinist editor of Renaissance poets, after all, a breed which should obviously be coddled and cosseted to the limits of the law.) In lots of ways, it's *still the central edition of Donne. The subsequent good editions -- Hayward, Shawcross, Patrides, for instance, are to a large degree simply footnotes to Grierson, while the rest -- Helen Gardner, A.J.Smith and John Carey [basically Dame Helen reset] -- rank in my book along with junk mail. Also -- availabilty -- there's not that much of Donne around between the end of the reprints of the 1633 edition and Grierson. Whereas in the same period, there are three generally available editions of Herbert -- Pickering (1835), Grosart (1874) and Palmer (1905) [see the NCBEL]. So your romantic Leicester lad in 1870 would have had a hard time finding a copy of Donne to inscribe and present to his girl, even if he'd wanted to. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 07:34:56 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:34:56 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com> <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > > In historical terms that's "just" > > 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. (He > also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't last.) > It's still a useful yardstick. > > > - still, these judgements are > > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein involved in this sample taking. The English middle/upper class were incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and out of fashion. The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this list, not even S > Nope -- they're organic (though they may be linked into nationality/national > > identity/whatever). (And OK, all statements like that should carry a > last-50-years health warning. Things may have changed.) There's an > incredible -- call it either consistency or inertia -- that begins with the > contemporary and later judgements on Chaucer and runs (with occasional > exceptions) up to Yeats. For much of that time, the academic > institutionalisation of English Literature (which is post-1900 --the Latin > and Greek classics are another matter) simply didn't exist. > > (Johnson's +Lives+, which mostly reflects what the public [sic!] were > prepared to buy to read in 1770 is pretty conservative in the judgements > made as to who's important-- Dryden, Pope, Milton, etc. And is the same as > those made in the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Look at the > amount of space given to the say ten writers with most space in Johnson and > it's virtually identical to that in Norton [with the exception of Donne]. one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. > But it does turn on the availability (not the simple existence) of texts -- > you can't judge whether or not a writer is worth reading if you can get hold > of their work to read. > > So however the consensus is established -- and it *does exist, for better or > worse -- it way predates English academe. Which anyway has always had a > higher opinion of it's own power than is really the case. Check out the > books which are (and aren't) sold by students at the end of a course, for > instance. You can tell them X or Y is "valuable" till the cows come home, > and they'll end up, the minute they no longer have to pass an exam, making > their own judgements. Except the ones who stay in academe. > > > See the UK > > current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". > > I'd rather not. By the time students get to university they're infected already ... > I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high school > or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree student-driven > Robin > > > > > On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: > >> Quoth Roger Day: > >> > >> > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > >> > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > >> > >> Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was > >> with > >> Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in +Metaphysical > >> Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed > >> (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 08:10:37 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:10:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" >> 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. >> (He >> also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't >> last.) >> It's still a useful yardstick. >> >> > - still, these judgements are >> > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. > > I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein > involved in this sample taking. Yeah, poetasters like William Dunbar who (even across the Border) signals out Chaucer in the early 16thC, Wordsworth and Keats who rather admired Milton. And while Johnson wasn't perhaps a great poet, he was a bit more than a poetaster. I could go on ... Palgrave was a poetaster sure, but the engine behind his rotten anthology was Tennyson. > The English middle/upper class were > incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public > or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - That's why the establishment of the university educated middle and upper classes picked a lower middle class kid who didn't get beyond grammar school, made his money writing for the general London theatre audience, and was more than mildly subversive, as their National Bard. Boy, they sure called that one wrong. > which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and > out of fashion. You mean Yeats has gone out of fashion? I think I missed that. You ought to tell that to the publishers of Wordsworth Classics, who make their money flogging reprints of out-of-copyright texts to what passes as the General Public. They don't seem to have much trouble selling him. Nor all those reprint houses churning out texts of Shakespeare that would have a student kicked out of class and told to buy a "proper" text. > The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I > remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending > figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this > list, not even S We're talking about different things. 99% of the reading at *any time is strictly contemporary, always has been. Comes and goes. But look at the books that have been on and remain and return to the shelves of bookshops (who don't allocate space out of altruistic motives) -- Dan Brown will go the way of Edgar Wallace, while Shakespeare and Austin will persist. "The waste remains, the waste remains and kills," I presume you'd like to say. > one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. There are always more readers than readers of poetry, and more poetasters than poets, but it's the latter who finally count. Maybe the trickle-down effect, the Reader's Digest Syndrome. Their judgements end up as prepackaged pap, but it's the engine behind what's put forward. Poets propose, the public disposes, and the activities of academe and the advertising industry are but the noise of sticks crackling in a fire. > By the time students get to university they're infected already ... > >> I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high >> school >> or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree student-driven What world are you living in, Roger? When I was interviewing candidates for places on an English degree, I'd think myself lucky if they'd been exposed to the War Poets and a token Metaphysical. That seemed to be about the norm of the teaching of poetry at A-level in highschool. There are problems getting university students to engage with poetry, but preindoctrination -- other than an implicit dislike of *all poetry, mostly because they've never encountered or been exposed to it -- sure as hell isn't one. Milton, who he? is a more likely response than Milton for god. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 08:12:50 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:12:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: References: <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: http://www.plr.uk.com/trends/chart/chartindex.htm S is there in 2005 as part of the "classic authors". Where is he o'wise? On 8/31/06, Roger Day wrote: > On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > > From: "Roger Day" > > > > > In historical terms that's "just" > > > > 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. (He > > also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't last.) > > It's still a useful yardstick. > > > > > - still, these judgements are > > > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. > > I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein > involved in this sample taking. The English middle/upper class were > incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public > or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - > which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and > out of fashion. > > The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I > remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending > figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this > list, not even S > > > Nope -- they're organic (though they may be linked into nationality/national > > > > identity/whatever). (And OK, all statements like that should carry a > > last-50-years health warning. Things may have changed.) There's an > > incredible -- call it either consistency or inertia -- that begins with the > > contemporary and later judgements on Chaucer and runs (with occasional > > exceptions) up to Yeats. For much of that time, the academic > > institutionalisation of English Literature (which is post-1900 --the Latin > > and Greek classics are another matter) simply didn't exist. > > > > (Johnson's +Lives+, which mostly reflects what the public [sic!] were > > prepared to buy to read in 1770 is pretty conservative in the judgements > > made as to who's important-- Dryden, Pope, Milton, etc. And is the same as > > those made in the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Look at the > > amount of space given to the say ten writers with most space in Johnson and > > it's virtually identical to that in Norton [with the exception of Donne]. > > one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. > > > But it does turn on the availability (not the simple existence) of texts -- > > you can't judge whether or not a writer is worth reading if you can get hold > > of their work to read. > > > > So however the consensus is established -- and it *does exist, for better or > > worse -- it way predates English academe. Which anyway has always had a > > higher opinion of it's own power than is really the case. Check out the > > books which are (and aren't) sold by students at the end of a course, for > > instance. You can tell them X or Y is "valuable" till the cows come home, > > and they'll end up, the minute they no longer have to pass an exam, making > > their own judgements. Except the ones who stay in academe. > > > > > See the UK > > > current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". > > > > I'd rather not. > > By the time students get to university they're infected already ... > > > I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high school > > or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree student-driven > > > Robin > > > > > > > > On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: > > >> Quoth Roger Day: > > >> > > >> > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > > >> > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > > >> > > >> Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was > > >> with > > >> Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in +Metaphysical > > >> Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed > > >> (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk Thu Aug 31 08:13:37 2006 From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:13:37 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] JH Prynne In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> Message-ID: <1157026417.44f6d27157049@webmail.ukonline.net> I like his poems. You can read my essay about one of them here: http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/04/on-jh-prynne-her-weasels- wild.html Michael Quoting Anthony Lawrence : > Can I ask what people think of the poetry of Jeremy Prynne? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ---------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 08:56:24 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:56:24 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > >> 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. > >> (He > >> also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't > >> last.) > >> It's still a useful yardstick. > >> > >> > - still, these judgements are > >> > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. > > > > I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein > > involved in this sample taking. > > Yeah, poetasters like William Dunbar who (even across the Border) signals > out Chaucer in the early 16thC, Wordsworth and Keats who rather admired > Milton. And while Johnson wasn't perhaps a great poet, he was a bit more > than a poetaster. I could go on ... Palgrave was a poetaster sure, but the > engine behind his rotten anthology was Tennyson. Even so, that's an awfully small pool from which to define "greatness", with a uniformity of taste settling it's line down the ages, all very much from nearly the same cultural background, all from the same tiny little cesspool. Are poets immune to fashion? To the culture they live in? > > The English middle/upper class were > > incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public > > or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - > > That's why the establishment of the university educated middle and upper > classes picked a lower middle class kid who didn't get beyond grammar > school, made his money writing for the general London theatre audience, and > was more than mildly subversive, as their National Bard. Boy, they sure > called that one wrong. Oh, fuck off. This is sentimental bollocks. > > which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and > > out of fashion. > > You mean Yeats has gone out of fashion? I think I missed that. You ought > to tell that to the publishers of Wordsworth Classics, who make their money > flogging reprints of out-of-copyright texts to what passes as the General > Public. They don't seem to have much trouble selling him. Nor all those > reprint houses churning out texts of Shakespeare that would have a student > kicked out of class and told to buy a "proper" text. I wonder how much of that is bought out of sentiment? Out of trying to give Little Johnny a head-start. How much of it is to give one the veneer of learning on the bookshelf. Cheaper than buying a set of ready-made bookshelves. > > The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I > > remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending > > figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this > > list, not even S > > We're talking about different things. 99% of the reading at *any time is > strictly contemporary, always has been. Comes and goes. But look at the > books that have been on and remain and return to the shelves of bookshops > (who don't allocate space out of altruistic motives) -- Dan Brown will go > the way of Edgar Wallace, while Shakespeare and Austin will persist. > > "The waste remains, the waste remains and kills," I presume you'd > like to say. You're doing a lot of presuming here. Austen & S will persist because they're taught in the schools. Not because of some mighty, "objective" standard of Greatness. > > one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. > > There are always more readers than readers of poetry, and more poetasters > than poets, but it's the latter who finally count. Maybe the trickle-down > effect, the Reader's Digest Syndrome. Their judgements end up as > prepackaged pap, but it's the engine behind what's put forward. > > Poets propose, the public disposes, and the activities of academe and the > advertising industry are but the noise of sticks crackling in a fire. Very glib. I thought some poor sucker had to buy something. Roger -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk Thu Aug 31 09:07:34 2006 From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:07:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: References: <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> I agree with Robin's account of what is. I agree with Roger that it isn't wrong to dislike Shakespeare and that notions of literary greatness are culturally bound. If someone only enjoys Korean poetry and feels uninspired by Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? If a ruthlessly doctrinaire admirer of folk-literature only likes anonymous songs, then who can object? If poetry isn't on your horizon at all then of course you don't ever think about Shakespeare, you just lump him in with all that other boring crap. And with the explosion of literature itself it's increasingly becoming possible to define self-sufficient literatures in which Shakespeare plays no important role; feminist literatures, fundamentalist-religious literatures, visual poetry to name but three examples! Still for most people who are currently readers of English Literature at all and who are therefore enjoying the same kind of thing that Shakespeare did first and best, pushing him away risks being identified as wilful and cranky - as per Tolstoy. I suppose what I'm trying to say in a roundaboutway is that I think it's no problem to diss Shakespeare - but only if you also dislike Chaucer, Blake, Wordsworth, Dickens, Melville, Yeats, Pound, Stein, Ashbery etc. It needs, in my opinion, to be a total rejection of that which has been traditionally thought of literature, a rethinking in other words. Got a feeling this will please neither of you but anyhow, thanks for the ongoing thought-provoking exchange. Oh yes, what I started out to say was that though Grierson and then Eliot/Leavis were important for growing a wider audience it's clear that the fact of Donne was somehow present to Wordsworth, Coleridge, Eliz Barrett, Rbt Browning... - he wasn't much liked but he was somehow respected, he cast a shadow... perhaps because his sermons kept him in view, I don't know. Generally I agree with Robin that after a few years have passed and there's nothing for the author to suddenly decide to own up to, there's no real reason why reputations of available works should radically change WITHIN the literary community - why would they? The massive stability of this particular literary community can be characterized as ossified or as steadily evolving but either way it is not prone to quixotic lightning shifts of opinion - it's simply too big. Quoting Roger Day : > http://www.plr.uk.com/trends/chart/chartindex.htm > > S is there in 2005 as part of the "classic authors". Where is he o'wise? > > On 8/31/06, Roger Day wrote: > > On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > > > From: "Roger Day" > > > > > > > In historical terms that's "just" > > > > > > 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. > (He > > > also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't > last.) > > > It's still a useful yardstick. > > > > > > > - still, these judgements are > > > > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. > > > > I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein > > involved in this sample taking. The English middle/upper class were > > incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public > > or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - > > which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and > > out of fashion. > > > > The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I > > remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending > > figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this > > list, not even S > > > > > Nope -- they're organic (though they may be linked into > nationality/national > > > > > > identity/whatever). (And OK, all statements like that should carry a > > > last-50-years health warning. Things may have changed.) There's an > > > incredible -- call it either consistency or inertia -- that begins with > the > > > contemporary and later judgements on Chaucer and runs (with occasional > > > exceptions) up to Yeats. For much of that time, the academic > > > institutionalisation of English Literature (which is post-1900 --the > Latin > > > and Greek classics are another matter) simply didn't exist. > > > > > > (Johnson's +Lives+, which mostly reflects what the public [sic!] were > > > prepared to buy to read in 1770 is pretty conservative in the judgements > > > made as to who's important-- Dryden, Pope, Milton, etc. And is the same > as > > > those made in the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Look at the > > > amount of space given to the say ten writers with most space in Johnson > and > > > it's virtually identical to that in Norton [with the exception of > Donne]. > > > > one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. > > > > > But it does turn on the availability (not the simple existence) of texts > -- > > > you can't judge whether or not a writer is worth reading if you can get > hold > > > of their work to read. > > > > > > So however the consensus is established -- and it *does exist, for better > or > > > worse -- it way predates English academe. Which anyway has always had a > > > higher opinion of it's own power than is really the case. Check out the > > > books which are (and aren't) sold by students at the end of a course, > for > > > instance. You can tell them X or Y is "valuable" till the cows come > home, > > > and they'll end up, the minute they no longer have to pass an exam, > making > > > their own judgements. Except the ones who stay in academe. > > > > > > > See the UK > > > > current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". > > > > > > I'd rather not. > > > > By the time students get to university they're infected already ... > > > > > I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high > school > > > or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree > student-driven > > > > > Robin > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: > > > >> Quoth Roger Day: > > > >> > > > >> > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > > > >> > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > > > >> > > > >> Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was > > > >> with > > > >> Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in > +Metaphysical > > > >> Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed > > > >> (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > > legs... facing the wrong way." > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > ---------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 09:43:01 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:43:01 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> References: <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> Message-ID: I think the big break is Pound. I remember a quote saying that Pound writes as if Shakespeare et al *never existed (was that the Pound Years?). In certain senses, then, the disruption has been made. My big beef with Shakespeare is that he looms large, like a big turd, in the middle of English culture. I agree S's "greatness" is culturally bound. Neither do I think "greatness" is a given stable, objective standard. Cultures can, and do, change. Although maybe, in essence, English culture hasn't changed over the past x number of years ... I think Le Carre called it cultural constipation. R On 8/31/06, m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk wrote: > I agree with Robin's account of what is. > > I agree with Roger that it isn't wrong to dislike Shakespeare and that notions > of literary greatness are culturally bound. If someone only enjoys Korean > poetry and feels uninspired by Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? If a > ruthlessly doctrinaire admirer of folk-literature only likes anonymous songs, > then who can object? If poetry isn't on your horizon at all then of course you > don't ever think about Shakespeare, you just lump him in with all that other > boring crap. And with the explosion of literature itself it's increasingly > becoming possible to define self-sufficient literatures in which Shakespeare > plays no important role; feminist literatures, fundamentalist-religious > literatures, visual poetry to name but three examples! Still for most people > who are currently readers of English Literature at all and who are therefore > enjoying the same kind of thing that Shakespeare did first and best, pushing > him away risks being identified as wilful and cranky - as per Tolstoy. > > I suppose what I'm trying to say in a roundaboutway is that I think it's no > problem to diss Shakespeare - but only if you also dislike Chaucer, Blake, > Wordsworth, Dickens, Melville, Yeats, Pound, Stein, Ashbery etc. It needs, in > my opinion, to be a total rejection of that which has been traditionally > thought of literature, a rethinking in other words. > > Got a feeling this will please neither of you but anyhow, thanks for the > ongoing thought-provoking exchange. > > Oh yes, what I started out to say was that though Grierson and then > Eliot/Leavis were important for growing a wider audience it's clear that the > fact of Donne was somehow present to Wordsworth, Coleridge, Eliz Barrett, Rbt > Browning... - he wasn't much liked but he was somehow respected, he cast a > shadow... perhaps because his sermons kept him in view, I don't know. > Generally I agree with Robin that after a few years have passed and there's > nothing for the author to suddenly decide to own up to, there's no real reason > why reputations of available works should radically change WITHIN the literary > community - why would they? The massive stability of this particular literary > community can be characterized as ossified or as steadily evolving but either > way it is not prone to quixotic lightning shifts of opinion - it's simply too > big. > > > > > > > > Quoting Roger Day : > > > http://www.plr.uk.com/trends/chart/chartindex.htm > > > > S is there in 2005 as part of the "classic authors". Where is he o'wise? > > > > On 8/31/06, Roger Day wrote: > > > On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > > > > From: "Roger Day" > > > > > > > > > In historical terms that's "just" > > > > > > > > 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. > > (He > > > > also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't > > last.) > > > > It's still a useful yardstick. > > > > > > > > > - still, these judgements are > > > > > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. > > > > > > I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein > > > involved in this sample taking. The English middle/upper class were > > > incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public > > > or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - > > > which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and > > > out of fashion. > > > > > > The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I > > > remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending > > > figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this > > > list, not even S > > > > > > > Nope -- they're organic (though they may be linked into > > nationality/national > > > > > > > > identity/whatever). (And OK, all statements like that should carry a > > > > last-50-years health warning. Things may have changed.) There's an > > > > incredible -- call it either consistency or inertia -- that begins with > > the > > > > contemporary and later judgements on Chaucer and runs (with occasional > > > > exceptions) up to Yeats. For much of that time, the academic > > > > institutionalisation of English Literature (which is post-1900 --the > > Latin > > > > and Greek classics are another matter) simply didn't exist. > > > > > > > > (Johnson's +Lives+, which mostly reflects what the public [sic!] were > > > > prepared to buy to read in 1770 is pretty conservative in the judgements > > > > made as to who's important-- Dryden, Pope, Milton, etc. And is the same > > as > > > > those made in the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Look at the > > > > amount of space given to the say ten writers with most space in Johnson > > and > > > > it's virtually identical to that in Norton [with the exception of > > Donne]. > > > > > > one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. > > > > > > > But it does turn on the availability (not the simple existence) of texts > > -- > > > > you can't judge whether or not a writer is worth reading if you can get > > hold > > > > of their work to read. > > > > > > > > So however the consensus is established -- and it *does exist, for better > > or > > > > worse -- it way predates English academe. Which anyway has always had a > > > > higher opinion of it's own power than is really the case. Check out the > > > > books which are (and aren't) sold by students at the end of a course, > > for > > > > instance. You can tell them X or Y is "valuable" till the cows come > > home, > > > > and they'll end up, the minute they no longer have to pass an exam, > > making > > > > their own judgements. Except the ones who stay in academe. > > > > > > > > > See the UK > > > > > current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". > > > > > > > > I'd rather not. > > > > > > By the time students get to university they're infected already ... > > > > > > > I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high > > school > > > > or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree > > student-driven > > > > > > > Robin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: > > > > >> Quoth Roger Day: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > > > > >> > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > > > > >> > > > > >> Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was > > > > >> with > > > > >> Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in > > +Metaphysical > > > > >> Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed > > > > >> (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > > > legs... facing the wrong way." > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > > legs... facing the wrong way." > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From acgold01 at louisville.edu Thu Aug 31 09:47:58 2006 From: acgold01 at louisville.edu (Alan C Golding) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:47:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest? Message-ID: <44F6B04E020000040063D54B@gwise.louisville.edu> I'm guessing Ashbery or Creeley. Alan Golding From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 09:55:40 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:55:40 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: References: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> Message-ID: I should add, though, I think english culture is changing gradually although even now there's a fight against it changing (usually by English readers of the Telegraph). It is my profound hope for the future that the big turd lessens in stature, size and influence. Roger. On 8/31/06, Roger Day wrote: > I think the big break is Pound. I remember a quote saying that Pound > writes as if Shakespeare et al *never existed (was that the Pound > Years?). In certain senses, then, the disruption has been made. > > My big beef with Shakespeare is that he looms large, like a big turd, > in the middle of English culture. > > I agree S's "greatness" is culturally bound. Neither do I think > "greatness" is a given stable, objective standard. Cultures can, and > do, change. Although maybe, in essence, English culture hasn't changed > over the past x number of years ... I think Le Carre called it > cultural constipation. > > R > On 8/31/06, m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk wrote: > > I agree with Robin's account of what is. > > > > I agree with Roger that it isn't wrong to dislike Shakespeare and that notions > > of literary greatness are culturally bound. If someone only enjoys Korean > > poetry and feels uninspired by Shakespeare, what's wrong with that? If a > > ruthlessly doctrinaire admirer of folk-literature only likes anonymous songs, > > then who can object? If poetry isn't on your horizon at all then of course you > > don't ever think about Shakespeare, you just lump him in with all that other > > boring crap. And with the explosion of literature itself it's increasingly > > becoming possible to define self-sufficient literatures in which Shakespeare > > plays no important role; feminist literatures, fundamentalist-religious > > literatures, visual poetry to name but three examples! Still for most people > > who are currently readers of English Literature at all and who are therefore > > enjoying the same kind of thing that Shakespeare did first and best, pushing > > him away risks being identified as wilful and cranky - as per Tolstoy. > > > > I suppose what I'm trying to say in a roundaboutway is that I think it's no > > problem to diss Shakespeare - but only if you also dislike Chaucer, Blake, > > Wordsworth, Dickens, Melville, Yeats, Pound, Stein, Ashbery etc. It needs, in > > my opinion, to be a total rejection of that which has been traditionally > > thought of literature, a rethinking in other words. > > > > Got a feeling this will please neither of you but anyhow, thanks for the > > ongoing thought-provoking exchange. > > > > Oh yes, what I started out to say was that though Grierson and then > > Eliot/Leavis were important for growing a wider audience it's clear that the > > fact of Donne was somehow present to Wordsworth, Coleridge, Eliz Barrett, Rbt > > Browning... - he wasn't much liked but he was somehow respected, he cast a > > shadow... perhaps because his sermons kept him in view, I don't know. > > Generally I agree with Robin that after a few years have passed and there's > > nothing for the author to suddenly decide to own up to, there's no real reason > > why reputations of available works should radically change WITHIN the literary > > community - why would they? The massive stability of this particular literary > > community can be characterized as ossified or as steadily evolving but either > > way it is not prone to quixotic lightning shifts of opinion - it's simply too > > big. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting Roger Day : > > > > > http://www.plr.uk.com/trends/chart/chartindex.htm > > > > > > S is there in 2005 as part of the "classic authors". Where is he o'wise? > > > > > > On 8/31/06, Roger Day wrote: > > > > On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > > > > > From: "Roger Day" > > > > > > > > > > > In historical terms that's "just" > > > > > > > > > > 100 years was the time Sam Johnson said it took to establish a classic. > > > (He > > > > > also delivered a contempory judgement on +Tristram Shandy+ -- won't > > > last.) > > > > > It's still a useful yardstick. > > > > > > > > > > > - still, these judgements are > > > > > > constructed on the wings of fashion and props of statehood. > > > > > > > > I narrow my eyes at the incestuously small set of poetasters herein > > > > involved in this sample taking. The English middle/upper class were > > > > incredibly stable with little change in the constituency of the public > > > > or the writers up until the mass-literacy movements of the 1900s - > > > > which brings us to Yeats. Even for such a small group, poets go in and > > > > out of fashion. > > > > > > > > The post-war boom in literacy is producing a different public. I > > > > remember an article in the Guardian for public library lending > > > > figures. None of these writers mentioned above or below were in this > > > > list, not even S > > > > > > > > > Nope -- they're organic (though they may be linked into > > > nationality/national > > > > > > > > > > identity/whatever). (And OK, all statements like that should carry a > > > > > last-50-years health warning. Things may have changed.) There's an > > > > > incredible -- call it either consistency or inertia -- that begins with > > > the > > > > > contemporary and later judgements on Chaucer and runs (with occasional > > > > > exceptions) up to Yeats. For much of that time, the academic > > > > > institutionalisation of English Literature (which is post-1900 --the > > > Latin > > > > > and Greek classics are another matter) simply didn't exist. > > > > > > > > > > (Johnson's +Lives+, which mostly reflects what the public [sic!] were > > > > > prepared to buy to read in 1770 is pretty conservative in the judgements > > > > > made as to who's important-- Dryden, Pope, Milton, etc. And is the same > > > as > > > > > those made in the Norton Anthology of English Literature. Look at the > > > > > amount of space given to the say ten writers with most space in Johnson > > > and > > > > > it's virtually identical to that in Norton [with the exception of > > > Donne]. > > > > > > > > one wonders at the tight little world of the poetasters. > > > > > > > > > But it does turn on the availability (not the simple existence) of texts > > > -- > > > > > you can't judge whether or not a writer is worth reading if you can get > > > hold > > > > > of their work to read. > > > > > > > > > > So however the consensus is established -- and it *does exist, for better > > > or > > > > > worse -- it way predates English academe. Which anyway has always had a > > > > > higher opinion of it's own power than is really the case. Check out the > > > > > books which are (and aren't) sold by students at the end of a course, > > > for > > > > > instance. You can tell them X or Y is "valuable" till the cows come > > > home, > > > > > and they'll end up, the minute they no longer have to pass an exam, > > > making > > > > > their own judgements. Except the ones who stay in academe. > > > > > > > > > > > See the UK > > > > > > current curriculum and it's institutionalisation of the "canon". > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather not. > > > > > > > > By the time students get to university they're infected already ... > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure which curriculum you're thinking of here, Roger -- high > > > school > > > > > or university? If the latter, it's to a surprising degree > > > student-driven > > > > > > > > > Robin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/30/06, Robin wrote: > > > > > >> Quoth Roger Day: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Why is Donne major? In Johnson's time, he was considered extremely > > > > > >> > minor. He's only just been dug out of the wood pile. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Not "just" -- it's coming up to 100 years now. The turning point was > > > > > >> with > > > > > >> Grierson's edition of 1912, followed by his selection in > > > +Metaphysical > > > > > >> Lyrics and Poets of the Seventeenth Century+ which T.S.Eliot reviewed > > > > > >> (anonymously) in the TLS in 1923. After that, it's history. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > > > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > > > > legs... facing the wrong way." > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.badstep.net/ > > > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > > > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > > > legs... facing the wrong way." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 10:25:36 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:25:36 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <007d01c6cd09$5bbb9e60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> > http://www.plr.uk.com/trends/chart/chartindex.htm > > S is there in 2005 as part of the "classic authors". Where is he o'wise? "Seven (four last year) of our classic authors would have earned the maximum payment of ?6,000 if they were still alive" Jeezus, given that he'd a substantial set of texts under his belt by 1607, that means pro rata that in his post-lifetime, he would have earned ?240,000 from PUBLIC LENDING RIGHTS IN THE UK ALONE!!! Given that the maximum payout is ?6,000 a year, even Dan Brown wouldn't have gotten any more. And he's the only dramatist living or dead, in the entire 2005 list. And as people don't that frequently +read+ plays ... Whether or not he's the Greatest DWEM, he sure as hell looks like the highest-earning one. And that's not counting film rights. R. (Mind you, he would only have earned ?3,031 in 2000-2001. But he's the only playwright to appear at all in the lists, and appears twice. Given how heavily biased such an excercise is against dramatists ... ) From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 10:37:23 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:37:23 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <007d01c6cd09$5bbb9e60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <007d01c6cd09$5bbb9e60$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: multi-million dollar industry indeed. On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > > http://www.plr.uk.com/trends/chart/chartindex.htm > > > > S is there in 2005 as part of the "classic authors". Where is he o'wise? > > "Seven (four last year) of our classic authors would have earned the maximum > payment of ?6,000 if they were still alive" > > Jeezus, given that he'd a substantial set of texts under his belt by 1607, > that means pro rata that in his post-lifetime, he would have earned ?240,000 > from PUBLIC LENDING RIGHTS IN THE UK ALONE!!! > > Given that the maximum payout is ?6,000 a year, even Dan Brown wouldn't have > gotten any more. > > And he's the only dramatist living or dead, in the entire 2005 list. And as > people don't that frequently +read+ plays ... > > Whether or not he's the Greatest DWEM, he sure as hell looks like the > highest-earning one. > > And that's not counting film rights. > > R. > > (Mind you, he would only have earned ?3,031 in 2000-2001. But he's the only > playwright to appear at all in the lists, and appears twice. Given how > heavily biased such an excercise is against dramatists ... ) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 11:05:25 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:05:25 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <008301c6cd0e$ecf1e5b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" > Even so, that's an awfully small pool from which to define > "greatness", with a uniformity of taste settling it's line down the > ages, all very much from nearly the same cultural background, all from > the same tiny little cesspool. Well, it *is a right little, tight little island. > Are poets immune to fashion? To the > culture they live in? It would seem, counterintuitively, to be the case. >> That's why the establishment of the university educated middle and upper >> classes picked a lower middle class kid who didn't get beyond grammar >> school, made his money writing for the general London theatre audience, >> and >> was more than mildly subversive, as their National Bard. Boy, they sure >> called that one wrong. > > Oh, fuck off. This is sentimental bollocks. Yeah, right -- and I'll start taking the Shakespeare Authorship Question seriously the minute someone is proposed from a *lower class background than Shakespeare. Who's the current favourite of the Telegraph-breathing establishment? The Earl of Oxford? There's bollocks for you, not only sentimental but pernitious. I'd agree that class and background is involved in the reception of Shakespeare, but in some ways in the opposite fashion to that you suggest. He's survived the sneers of Dryden and the attempted castration by Nahum Tate, so one index of "subversive" might be the opposition it produces, overt or covert, from the establishment. >> They don't seem to have much trouble selling him. Nor all those >> reprint houses churning out texts of Shakespeare that would have a >> student >> kicked out of class and told to buy a "proper" text. > > I wonder how much of that is bought out of sentiment? Out of trying to > give Little Johnny a head-start. Could say the same thing about the da Vinci Code -- how many of those who buy it, read it, or buy it other than because all around are buying it too? And I can think of lots of ways of giving Wee Jimmy a head start rather than giving him a copy of Shakespeare. Seems to me counter-productive that, put the poor wee bugger off learning for life. Better to take him to see one of the guy's plays when he's old enough. > How much of it is to give one the > veneer of learning on the bookshelf. Cheaper than buying a set of > ready-made bookshelves. Boy oh boy, Roger, given that my ex-wife, who's trying to sell her house, has just been told that it will be more saleable if she gets rid of or conceals *every single book* in it, it seems that the best thing to do with even a veneer of learning is to sandblast it and concrete over the ruins. > You're doing a lot of presuming here. Austen & S will persist because > they're taught in the schools. Not because of some mighty, "objective" > standard of Greatness. >> Poets propose, the public disposes, and the activities of academe and the >> advertising industry are but the noise of sticks crackling in a fire. > > Very glib. I thought some poor sucker had to buy something. It's the only way to tell what really matters to people, what they pay for. So we're not talking about some abstract greatness as you suggest, "Oh yeah, that Shakespeare guy, great i'n't he?" but punters paying out for the product and bums on seats when it comes to the theatre. Why the Scottish Play got its bad luck nickname -- if a rep company had a bad run of productions, they'd hastily stage it to 95% filled houses. So it was a sign that there'd been trouble, and they needed the guaranteed money sales. Or maybe the audience turned up and paid their money (no comps for those productions, matey, or reduced prices for school parties) because they'd been told to by teacher? Strikes me as a bit unlikely. Not to say an elitist dismissal or distrust of the judgement of the public. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 11:25:13 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:25:13 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <008301c6cd0e$ecf1e5b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <008301c6cd0e$ecf1e5b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > > Even so, that's an awfully small pool from which to define > > "greatness", with a uniformity of taste settling it's line down the > > ages, all very much from nearly the same cultural background, all from > > the same tiny little cesspool. > > Well, it *is a right little, tight little island. > > > Are poets immune to fashion? To the > > culture they live in? > > It would seem, counterintuitively, to be the case. Nah. It's the culture hasn't changed that much over the years. So the poets, at heart, don't change that much, just evolve around that little core, leaving things intact along the way. > >> That's why the establishment of the university educated middle and upper > >> classes picked a lower middle class kid who didn't get beyond grammar > >> school, made his money writing for the general London theatre audience, > >> and > >> was more than mildly subversive, as their National Bard. Boy, they sure > >> called that one wrong. > > > > Oh, fuck off. This is sentimental bollocks. > > Yeah, right -- and I'll start taking the Shakespeare Authorship Question > seriously the minute someone is proposed from a *lower class background than > Shakespeare. Who's the current favourite of the Telegraph-breathing > establishment? The Earl of Oxford? There's bollocks for you, not only > sentimental but pernitious. I'd agree that class and background is involved > in the reception of Shakespeare, but in some ways in the opposite fashion to > that you suggest. He's survived the sneers of Dryden and the attempted > castration by Nahum Tate, so one index of "subversive" might be the > opposition it produces, overt or covert, from the establishment. So tastes in this small little island do change occassional. You can't have it both ways. S has fallen out of favour and then come back into fashion. Poets, espeicially ones with a large enough corpus, will always "be there" in this tight little island; whether or not they're in favour, or fashionable, is another matter. See Donne. Unfortunately, given S's barbed-wired presence nowadays, the only way of getting him out of the way is with a bloddy crow-bar. The only time he's subversive these days is when some poor wretch of an academic tries to shoe-horn him into some fashionable pair of Jimmy Choos. > > How much of it is to give one the > > veneer of learning on the bookshelf. Cheaper than buying a set of > > ready-made bookshelves. > > Boy oh boy, Roger, given that my ex-wife, who's trying to sell her house, > has just been told that it will be more saleable if she gets rid of or > conceals *every single book* in it, it seems that the best thing to do with > even a veneer of learning is to sandblast it and concrete over the ruins. That's Scotland for you... > > You're doing a lot of presuming here. Austen & S will persist because > > they're taught in the schools. Not because of some mighty, "objective" > > standard of Greatness. > > >> Poets propose, the public disposes, and the activities of academe and the > >> advertising industry are but the noise of sticks crackling in a fire. > > > > Very glib. I thought some poor sucker had to buy something. > > It's the only way to tell what really matters to people, what they pay for. > So we're not talking about some abstract greatness as you suggest, "Oh yeah, > that Shakespeare guy, great i'n't he?" but punters paying out for the > product and bums on seats when it comes to the theatre. Why the Scottish > Play got its bad luck nickname -- if a rep company had a bad run of > productions, they'd hastily stage it to 95% filled houses. So it was a sign > that there'd been trouble, and they needed the guaranteed money sales. > > Or maybe the audience turned up and paid their money (no comps for those > productions, matey, or reduced prices for school parties) because they'd > been told to by teacher? Strikes me as a bit unlikely. Not to say an > elitist dismissal or distrust of the judgement of the public. > > Robin Back again to the industry... and all those school parties and tourists. And it's mostly tourists who do Stratford. I was that tourist. a little bit of english heritage, brought to you by the talent of Michael Pennington and the like. And being a country bumpkin, I were grateful for it I tell you. R -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 11:25:48 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:25:48 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> Message-ID: <00a301c6cd11$c49b2d80$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" >I should add, though, I think english culture is changing gradually > although even now there's a fight against it changing (usually by > English readers of the Telegraph). It is my profound hope for the > future that the big turd lessens in stature, size and influence. > > Roger. EARLIER >> Although maybe, in essence, English culture hasn't changed >> over the past x number of years ... I think Le Carre called it >> cultural constipation. >> >> R If EngLit is so terminally constipated, how come it managed to shit out such a big turd as Shakespeare? Just a thot ... R. (Who incidentally agrees with Michael that there's no reason people should be looked down on for disliking Shakespeare. Hell, myself, I can't stand Whitman, but I don't think it makes me a Lesser Person.) From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 11:27:34 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:27:34 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> Message-ID: <00aa01c6cd12$054bb1b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" >I think the big break is Pound. I remember a quote saying that Pound > writes as if Shakespeare et al *never existed No Shakespeare = no dramatic monologue = hardly any Pound left. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 11:37:42 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:37:42 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <00a301c6cd11$c49b2d80$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> <00a301c6cd11$c49b2d80$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: BECAUSE AT THAT TIME ENGLISH CULTURE HADN'T FULLY SOLIDIFIED YET He was at the transition point from Latin/Greek to English. everything was in flux. Even the nation-state hadn't yet achieved it's final form He had a privileged position That mistake has been rectified. On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > >I should add, though, I think english culture is changing gradually > > although even now there's a fight against it changing (usually by > > English readers of the Telegraph). It is my profound hope for the > > future that the big turd lessens in stature, size and influence. > > > > Roger. > > EARLIER > > >> Although maybe, in essence, English culture hasn't changed > >> over the past x number of years ... I think Le Carre called it > >> cultural constipation. > >> > >> R > > If EngLit is so terminally constipated, how come it managed to shit out such > a big turd as Shakespeare? > > Just a thot ... > > R. > > (Who incidentally agrees with Michael that there's no reason people should > be looked down on for disliking Shakespeare. Hell, myself, I can't stand > Whitman, but I don't think it makes me a Lesser Person.) > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 11:47:57 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:47:57 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <00aa01c6cd12$054bb1b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> <00aa01c6cd12$054bb1b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: I'm sure other playwrights of the same era had dramatic monologues as well ... I still think it true that Pound breaks the line, something about breaking pentameters. On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > >I think the big break is Pound. I remember a quote saying that Pound > > writes as if Shakespeare et al *never existed > > No Shakespeare = no dramatic monologue = hardly any Pound left. > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From skip at louisiana.edu Thu Aug 31 12:25:34 2006 From: skip at louisiana.edu (Skip Fox) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:25:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest? In-Reply-To: <44F6B04E020000040063D54B@gwise.louisville.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c6cd1a$1ba611f0$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> Leave it to Golding. It's Creeley who had over 1,200 blurbs by the mid-1980s. (Or was it 2,000? I can't remember. I used to be a bibliographer, but now facts opinions citations shopping lists illegible suicide notes etc. swirl about inside my ears. If Basinski lurks here he might answer if the fit suits him, as they say.) (Sorry I couldn't answer earlier. When not at the office, I can't post.) -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Alan C Golding Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:48 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest? I'm guessing Ashbery or Creeley. Alan Golding _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 31 12:36:40 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:36:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] JH Prynne References: <003b01c6c92e$5b2185c0$32b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><93E0CFC9-23E8-42FD-A1E3-0AD9B5469B44@bigpond.com><003a01c6c970$41cc5c70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><6211A811-16C1-4DC6-B796-59939ADBAD88@bigpond.com><004701c6c973$1b003be0$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><07c001c6c975$0ffb4580$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu><001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <1157026417.44f6d27157049@webmail.ukonline.net> Message-ID: <00cc01c6cd1b$a2d8b500$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Michael - link doesn't work. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] JH Prynne >I like his poems. You can read my essay about one of them here: > > http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/04/on-jh-prynne-her-weasels- > wild.html > > Michael > > > > > > > > Quoting Anthony Lawrence : > >> Can I ask what people think of the poetry of Jeremy Prynne? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 12:36:50 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:36:50 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: References: <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <1157029654.44f6df16235e9@webmail.ukonline.net> <00a301c6cd11$c49b2d80$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: *sigh* the below email should read differently as in On 8/31/06, Roger Day wrote: > BECAUSE AT THAT TIME ENGLISH CULTURE HADN'T FULLY SOLIDIFIED YET > > That mistake has been rectified. > > S was at the transition point when English was becoming the state language, rather than Latin/Greek. English had to be as eloquent as Latin/Greek, everything > was in flux. Even the nation-state hadn't yet achieved it's final form > He had a privileged position. > > > On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > > From: "Roger Day" > > > > >I should add, though, I think english culture is changing gradually > > > although even now there's a fight against it changing (usually by > > > English readers of the Telegraph). It is my profound hope for the > > > future that the big turd lessens in stature, size and influence. > > > > > > Roger. > > > > EARLIER > > > > >> Although maybe, in essence, English culture hasn't changed > > >> over the past x number of years ... I think Le Carre called it > > >> cultural constipation. > > >> > > >> R > > > > If EngLit is so terminally constipated, how come it managed to shit out such > > a big turd as Shakespeare? > > > > Just a thot ... > > > > R. > > > > (Who incidentally agrees with Michael that there's no reason people should > > be looked down on for disliking Shakespeare. Hell, myself, I can't stand > > Whitman, but I don't think it makes me a Lesser Person.) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > -- > http://www.badstep.net/ > http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ > "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false > legs... facing the wrong way." > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Thu Aug 31 12:56:07 2006 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:56:07 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure References: <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v><013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721><008301c6cd0e$ecf1e5b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: <00b701c6cd1e$638ce990$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> From: "Roger Day" >> > Are poets immune to fashion? To the >> > culture they live in? >> >> It would seem, counterintuitively, to be the case. > > Nah. It's the culture hasn't changed that much over the years. So the > poets, at heart, don't change that much, just evolve around that > little core, leaving things intact along the way. Fair point. >> He's survived the sneers of Dryden and the attempted >> castration by Nahum Tate, so one index of "subversive" might be the >> opposition it produces, overt or covert, from the establishment. > > So tastes in this small little island do change occassional. You can't > have it both ways. No, my point is the opposite -- it takes a hell of a lot, and more than just the establishment willing it, to change taste. Dryden's sneers *didn't effect the popularity of Shakespeare (though admittedly the Nahum Tate Lear held the boards for rather too long). Didn't work, as I said, with Milton, and at the height of the Pope-Is-Crap movement, spearheaded by the Romantic poets, there were more new editions of Pope being printed and bought than at any other time. So if Wordsworth, Coleridge, Keats and Shelley (Byron dissenting) couldn't stop people reading Pope, what hope is there for a bunch of poor paid-up academics? (Except, of course, I'm not sure how true that is today. There does seem to be a rather large cultural shift away from the eighteenth century. Maybe it's the contemporary lust for certainty -- all that bloody irony and such, hurts people's brains.) I'm not, incidentally, saying that cultural tastes don't shift at all, or that there's some sort of cultural absolute uniting bug-eyed monsters in Alpha Centauri and the inhabitants of East Cheam semi-detacheds, but there is a persistence of cultural memory within times and regions. > S has fallen out of favour and then When? I didn't say that. The only time he's been off the boards in the English speaking world was between 1640 and 1660, and when the playhouses were reopened, they staged Shakespeare, Jonson, and Beaumont and Fletcher mostly, alongside, increasingly, new stuff. (Cheaper than paying living writers, so it was always there.) Shakespeare happens, for whatever reasons, to be the one who lasted. >> Boy oh boy, Roger, given that my ex-wife, who's trying to sell her house, >> has just been told that it will be more saleable if she gets rid of or >> conceals *every single book* in it, it seems that the best thing to do >> with >> even a veneer of learning is to sandblast it and concrete over the ruins. > > That's Scotland for you... Nah, the East Midlands of England. Also why my garage is becoming increasingly full of books, as I'm in the same house-selling business at the moment. >> Or maybe the audience turned up and paid their money (no comps for those >> productions, matey, or reduced prices for school parties) because they'd >> been told to by teacher? Strikes me as a bit unlikely. Not to say an >> elitist dismissal or distrust of the judgement of the public. >> >> Robin > > Back again to the industry... and all those school parties and > tourists. Not in this case. And I'm thinking mostly of provincial rep companies rather than the Stratford/West End tourist market. The problem with the school groups scenario (it did cross my mind) is that while you can fill a theatre if you're bloody lucky for maybe two or three nights with just kids from the surrounding area (and you're also talking about the reduction of revenue from discounted tickets) you can't do it for a full two week run. Need Real People paying real money for that. And if it's the school run, why the Scottish Play and not Hamlet or Richard III or Romeo and Juliet? (Might be an example of another kind of inertia -- every rep playhouse has the scenery for Macbeth stowed away just in case.) Dunno just why, but. Robin From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 13:03:47 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:03:47 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] JH Prynne In-Reply-To: <00cc01c6cd1b$a2d8b500$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <9D88F3F7-9D62-4192-828C-F263BA976FE8@uaf.edu> <001901c6ca75$f6cc5b10$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <000b01c6cc81$107a5d20$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <014401c6cc86$963c0e40$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <000701c6ccc8$a2765f70$e3c60556@rayuv8pcloxi9v> <1157026417.44f6d27157049@webmail.ukonline.net> <00cc01c6cd1b$a2d8b500$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: works for me. Maybe your mailer cut off the wild.html bit? On 8/31/06, TheOldMole wrote: > Michael - link doesn't work. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:13 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] JH Prynne > > > >I like his poems. You can read my essay about one of them here: > > > > http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2006/04/on-jh-prynne-her-weasels- > > wild.html > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting Anthony Lawrence : > > > >> Can I ask what people think of the poetry of Jeremy Prynne? > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> New-Poetry mailing list > >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 31 13:17:49 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:17:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest Message-ID: <60BD8443-0637-4B99-A71A-C2D45ED8D958@ripon.edu> The blurb's a devilishly difficult form to write in, and the dangers are obvious: gush, pretentiousness, nakedly obvious back-scratching, simple incomprehension, airy nothingness. . . . Amusement is probably better than scorn, generally, when considering how some prominent poets go astray in the form. Especially for those of us who rarely or never put ourselves on the line in this way. But there's much amusement, not to mention bafflement, to be had in any good-sized bookstore. Yes, I have often wondered just what Jorie Graham was going on about in her wooziest blurbage, or even sometimes what book she was referring to--since the one in question did not seem to be remotely described. (I had this thought when she called James Tate's poetry "terrifying," for instance. It's many things, including hilarious and even poignant, but terrifying?) Likewise, it's fun to watch Robert Bly's metaphorical antics, as when he remarks that Gerald Stern "has a night personality: I'd say about a quarter to twelve." Syncronize your watches, everyone! But, and I've said this before, the all-time most entertaining blurbs are by Mark Halliday. I'd buy his books just for the blurbage, which in recent times have tended to be antic riffs on the excesses of blurbage. Here's the note that appears on the back of Halliday's *Selfwolf*. It's unsigned, but the author is easy to guess: "If you took the honesty of D. H. Lawrence, the courage of Robin Hood, the mordant incisiveness of William Empson, the ambivalent tension of Dostoevsky, the verve of Kenneth Koch, and the pluck of next year's Wimbledon champion, and multiplied everything by seven, you might have one-third of the talent displayed in *Selfwolf*. Or you might have something else. Reading *Selfwolf* is like reading the e-mail from Whitman's unknown grandson to Pynchon's missing daughter, or vice versa. More readable than Hart Crane, more candid than Jorie Graham, and more up-to-date than Alexander Pope, Mark Halliday is either a new colossus on the scene of post-contemporary American poetry or an infinitesimal blip of male bourgeois anxiety. You be the judge." ___________ ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rog3r.day at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 13:29:45 2006 From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:29:45 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Taking Kooser's measure In-Reply-To: <00b701c6cd1e$638ce990$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> References: <013c01c6cc84$0f4a8850$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <004c01c6cced$82f15f90$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <006b01c6ccf6$824c7df0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <008301c6cd0e$ecf1e5b0$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> <00b701c6cd1e$638ce990$4001a8c0@pc2b565f661721> Message-ID: On 8/31/06, Robin wrote: > From: "Roger Day" > > >> He's survived the sneers of Dryden and the attempted > >> castration by Nahum Tate, so one index of "subversive" might be the > >> opposition it produces, overt or covert, from the establishment. > > > > So tastes in this small little island do change occassional. You can't > > have it both ways. > > No, my point is the opposite -- it takes a hell of a lot, and more than just > the establishment willing it, to change taste. Dryden's sneers *didn't > effect the popularity of Shakespeare (though admittedly the Nahum Tate Lear > held the boards for rather too long). Didn't work, as I said, with Milton, > and at the height of the Pope-Is-Crap movement, spearheaded by the Romantic > poets, there were more new editions of Pope being printed and bought than at > any other time. So if Wordsworth, Coleridge, Keats and Shelley (Byron > dissenting) couldn't stop people reading Pope, what hope is there for a > bunch of poor paid-up academics? > > (Except, of course, I'm not sure how true that is today. There does seem to > be a rather large cultural shift away from the eighteenth century. Maybe > it's the contemporary lust for certainty -- all that bloody irony and such, > hurts people's brains.) I think we agree that there's a cultural inertia, particularly within these isles. Interesting to compare this with music. Prior to wax, the classical music biz focus used to center around the current generation of composers. Once a recording mechanism had been found, taste now seems to be stabilising in the past. I wonder if the printing press, along with being in a very small island, has something to do with it. With the printing press, it's easier to have a persistent cultural memory. Unlike scriptorums, whose output was never nearly enough to prevent damage. Interesting about Pope. But weren't the Romantics at the time notorious rebels, hellhounds and rapscallions? Who'd pay attention to them? After all, they supported the French Revolution and Pope could well have represented Reason and Order, Stability and Security in a world where the Nobs were being sent chop-chop to Madame Guillotine. I suppose Wordsworth the dullard breaks the rule here. By the time he makes poet laureate he's the proto-national trust poet laureate, fully paid up member of the Est. > I'm not, incidentally, saying that cultural tastes don't shift at all, or > that there's some sort of cultural absolute uniting bug-eyed monsters in > Alpha Centauri and the inhabitants of East Cheam semi-detacheds, but there > is a persistence of cultural memory within times and regions. I was wondering. > > S has fallen out of favour and then > > When? I didn't say that. The only time he's been off the boards in the > English speaking world was between 1640 and 1660, and when the playhouses > were reopened, they staged Shakespeare, Jonson, and Beaumont and Fletcher > mostly, alongside, increasingly, new stuff. (Cheaper than paying living > writers, so it was always there.) Shakespeare happens, for whatever > reasons, to be the one who lasted. I think it's back to that privileged position of being on the cusp of cultural change. He did suck up to the establishment at the time, and I often think this is one of the reasons he managed to survive those early years. To me he presented, particularly in the history plays, some sort of vision of "Britain", rather than just a disparate set of nations, at a time when it was all fairly uncertain. It would be interesting to research the reasons of why he survived that hiatus. > > Back again to the industry... and all those school parties and > > tourists. > > Not in this case. And I'm thinking mostly of provincial rep companies > rather than the Stratford/West End tourist market. > > The problem with the school groups scenario (it did cross my mind) is that > while you can fill a theatre if you're bloody lucky for maybe two or three > nights with just kids from the surrounding area (and you're also talking > about the reduction of revenue from discounted tickets) you can't do it for > a full two week run. Need Real People paying real money for that. > > And if it's the school run, why the Scottish Play and not Hamlet or Richard > III or Romeo and Juliet? I seem to recall the Northcott Theatre putting on whatever was on the GCSE/GCE syllabus that year. R -- http://www.badstep.net/ http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/ "From the waist downwards, Bloodnok was tattooed with a pair of false legs... facing the wrong way." From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Aug 31 13:32:32 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:32:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest Message-ID: <375.9738dbc.32287730@cs.com> Dark Blurb of the Soul ". . . Seems to me to be one of that breed who, when he approaches Dallas from the north, sees, welling up, gold chunks of buildings, great glass in the sun, row over row of gold teeth, hog grins, glistening, blind. Here we have the mnemonic daring, the nasty clarity, the hand print of necessity of one of those 'intellectuals' attempting the flamenco over a Big Abyss. This is the kind of bore who views the abominable Hawaiian photo of Mom and Uncle Joe, loud shirts, volcano in the background, and then lets the sad sow metaphors multiply and cry. This is he, this is he who sees the burned girl, that fried face's texture like plastic puke, and aches to get his hands on all that saffron and blue. Reading this entity is stepping off into slime, into little fishes, fast and crappy creatures nipping at your knees. Subtleties of rhythm? Subtleties of rhyme? If swine had wings, this guy would fly . . ." --Leon Stokesbury -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 31 15:02:27 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:02:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] coffee time Message-ID: <00a501c6cd30$00879e50$bfad3452@ANNY> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fssam6 at uaf.edu Thu Aug 31 15:39:27 2006 From: fssam6 at uaf.edu (steve moore) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:39:27 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest In-Reply-To: <60BD8443-0637-4B99-A71A-C2D45ED8D958@ripon.edu> References: <60BD8443-0637-4B99-A71A-C2D45ED8D958@ripon.edu> Message-ID: > > "If you took the honesty of D. H. Lawrence, the courage of Robin > Hood, the mordant incisiveness of William Empson, the ambivalent > tension of Dostoevsky, the verve of Kenneth Koch, and the pluck of > next year's Wimbledon champion, and multiplied everything by seven, > you might have one-third of the talent displayed in *Selfwolf*. Or > you might have something else. Reading *Selfwolf* is like reading > the e-mail from Whitman's unknown grandson to Pynchon's missing > daughter, or vice versa. More readable than Hart Crane, more candid > than Jorie Graham, and more up-to-date than Alexander Pope, Mark > Halliday is either a new colossus on the scene of post-contemporary > American poetry or an infinitesimal blip of male bourgeois anxiety. > You be the judge." > ___________ > > -possibly the best blurb ever > > ========================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 17:58:28 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:58:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gilbert In-Reply-To: <8C89A6DC2EB5F90-152C-214C@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C89A6DC2EB5F90-152C-214C@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0608311458s1d8aeb15ifdbc6520e6fdc311@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/06, almaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > > Have to agree with David here. There was a point when Gilbert was more > famous for not writing than for writing. That having been said, his work has > always been of a remarkably high and consistent quality. Maybe, infact, a > little too consistent. I'd be hard put to tell a poem from Views of Jeopardy > from a poem from Refusing heaven. The differences seem stark to me... but so do the similarities. I don't know that under-appreciated and under-recognized are quite the same things... Suzanne posited one, David replied about the other. He's certainly well-appreciated-- particularly by poets-- but the wider recognition doesn't seem to be there as it is for some much lesser authors, regardless of whether he brought it on himself or is his own worst enemy or the world's most pompous recluse-- I could care less about any of *that*. c From tad at opus40.org Thu Aug 31 19:16:07 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:16:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest References: <60BD8443-0637-4B99-A71A-C2D45ED8D958@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002601c6cd53$70d4ed20$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Best one I ever got was for my 1971 novel "The Killing Place": "More gripping, more savage than Deliverance!" ----- Original Message ----- From: steve moore To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Blurbiest "If you took the honesty of D. H. Lawrence, the courage of Robin Hood, the mordant incisiveness of William Empson, the ambivalent tension of Dostoevsky, the verve of Kenneth Koch, and the pluck of next year's Wimbledon champion, and multiplied everything by seven, you might have one-third of the talent displayed in *Selfwolf*. Or you might have something else. Reading *Selfwolf* is like reading the e-mail from Whitman's unknown grandson to Pynchon's missing daughter, or vice versa. More readable than Hart Crane, more candid than Jorie Graham, and more up-to-date than Alexander Pope, Mark Halliday is either a new colossus on the scene of post-contemporary American poetry or an infinitesimal blip of male bourgeois anxiety. You be the judge." ___________ -possibly the best blurb ever ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: