From hruggier at localnet.com Sat Apr 1 09:28:51 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 09:28:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: David Young References: <2af.e7c5cc.315f1bde@aol.com> Message-ID: <003901c65598$99630070$6500a8c0@Helen> very zenlike ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:57 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: David Young ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 1 13:56:52 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 20:56:52 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Of Mice and Men Message-ID: <00b201c655be$0b719c60$01aa3452@ANNY> http://www.berlinbiennale.de/eng/ The 4th Berlin Biennal curated by Maurizio Cattelan, Massimiliano Gioni and Ali Subotnick is titled Of Mice and Men. Taking its title from a poem by 18th century Scottish writer Robert Burns - who also inspired John Steinbeck's 1937 novel of the same name - Of Mice and Men stages a theater of the absurd, in which animals, humans and ghosts all play their tragic parts. But it is also a day in life of the inhabitants of a street and a stroll along the spaces that punctuate our existence. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Apr 1 22:23:40 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 22:23:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: David Young, without the html Message-ID: <327.ff7e33.31609dbc@aol.com> knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com Sent from the Internet (Details) If you cannot view images in your e-mail, please visit http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jnke0DXKYc0Wa0l2d0EA Welcome to April. It may be the last day of March, but here at Knopf we're so thrilled to begin our annual National Poetry Month festivities that the 2006 Poem-a-Day program starts early. Below you'll find the first installment. It's a poem by David Young from his gorgeous collection of poems called BLACK LAB. As we say hello to spring, this work is a true celebration of the possibility and joy ahead. If you're a new subscriber, here's how the month will work. Each day, for the next 30 days, you will receive a new poem by e-mail. Plus, this year we begin a new tradition, the Poem-a-Day Podcast?iPoetry for your iPod! At the end of this issue, you'll find a recording of David Young reading the title poem from BLACK LAB. Then, coming next week, Joan Didion will read to you from the work of Gerard Manley Hopkins, Knopf's poetry editor Deborah Garrison will read a favorite poem by Jane Mayhall, Knopf poets such as Sarah Arvio and J.D. McClatchy will read from their work, and this is just the beginning. So please feel free to forward these e-mails and audio clips to friends who love poetry. Let them know they can sign up right here. It's going to be a fantastic month. Walking Home on an Early Spring Evening Every microcosm needs its crow, something to hang around and comment, scavenge, alight on highest branches. Who hasn't seen the gnats, the pollen grains that coat the windshield? who hasn't heard the tree frogs? In the long march that takes us all our life, in and out of sleep, sun up, sun gone, our aging back and forth, smiling and puzzled, there come these times: you stop and look, and fix on something unremarkable, a parking lot or just a patch of sumac, but it will flare and resonate and you'll feel part of it for once, you'll be a goldfinch hanging on a feeder, you'll be a river system all in silver etched on a frosty driveway, you'll say "Folks, I think I made it this time, I think this is my song." The crow lifts up, its feathers shine and whisper, its round black eye surveys indifferently the world we've made and then the one we haven't. TODAY'S PODCAST: Listen to a recording of David Young reading "Black Labrador" Please note: Every weekday, a link to a new episode of the Poem-a-Day Podcast will appear in your Poem-a-Day e-mail. If you would like to receive the episodes via RSS, please copy and paste this address into your RSS feed reader or podcasting software: http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/poemaday/index.xml About BLACK LAB Meet David Young Discuss today's poem in the Knopf Poetry Forum Download a free broadside of "Black Labrador" Excerpt and recording from BLACK LAB. Copyright ? 2006 by David Young. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com You received this issue because your email address is in Knopf's Poem-a-Day mailing list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to unsub_knopf poetry at info.randomhouse.com. Or if you received this poem as a forward and wish to subscribe, send a blank email to sub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Apr 1 22:26:39 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 22:26:39 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] I SHALL NOT CARE Message-ID: <364.1077001.31609e6f@aol.com> I SHALL NOT CARE Sara Teasdale (1884-1933) When I am dead and over me bright April Shakes out her rain-drenched hair, Though you should lean above me broken-hearted, I shall not care. I shall have peace, as leafy trees are peaceful When rain bends down the bough; And I shall be more silent and cold-hearted Than you are now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 2 11:10:50 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 11:10:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Debroah Digges Message-ID: <2c5.69cb390.3161437a@aol.com> Today's poem is from Deborah Digges's collection TRAPEZE, in which she reflects on a woman's passage into midlife. Please note: If you received this e-mail as a forward and would like to sign up, you can subscribe here. Boat Wind off the small pond where I set my rubber boat down and climbed in, my child-sized paddle barely long enough to push off or feather a rudderless craft. Easier to drift in circles across the late-March waters, my dogs wild at the idea of spring's first cold immersions. Still, they swam out to try to climb aboard, swamping my little boat until, soaked through, I paddled back, spilled roaring in the shallows. Onshore two mothers watched, and their young children who neither waved nor smiled, nor I. Distance forgave us, and the babies, who stood on guard, sticks in their little hands raised to the pack shaking dry, running headlong in their direction. The mothers swept children onto hips and turned, barely maneuvering behind them strollers tipping a wreck of bright bottle bags, toys, blankets, perhaps extra clothes. Once they looked back to show me myself at fifty, frightening to them, not yet recognizable, the self- same, almost, in an old nightmare obsolete, who might have called out to reassure as I buried my freezing legs in the sun-warmed sand and lay back, flanked by three dogs and a rubber boat. O brilliant, trivial unmooring. KEEP CLICKING: About TRAPEZE Meet Deborah Digges Discuss today's poem in the Knopf Poetry Forum Excerpt from TRAPEZE. Copyright ? 2004 by Deborah Digges. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of this excerpt may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Apr 2 16:51:03 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MiPOesias: New Work and Reading Series In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060402205103.65406.qmail@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Gentle Readers, Please imbibe regularly and deeply at MiPOesias: ___________________________ Devendra Banhart - New Art Work [with attempted ekphrasis by Amy King] http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/banhart_devendra.html ____________________________ Dale DeBakcsky - "The Matter of a Jacket" http://www.mipoesias.com/Shorts/deBakcsy_dale.html ____________________________ Charles Bernstein - "The Twelve Tribes of Dr. Lacan" http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/bernstein_charles.html ____________________________ Nguyen Thi Hoang Bac (trans. Linh Dinh) - "Inspired" and "A Blade of Grass" http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/bac_nguyen.html ____________________________ Mary Kasimor - "I drove far away to get" http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/kasimor_mary.html ___________________________ Ron Padgett - "Pleural Cavity", "Versatile Tarzan", and "Answering Machine" http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/padgett_ron.html ___________________________ Don't forget: much of the published work includes an option to listen to the writer reading his/her work! And finally, MiPOesias is starting a reading series to be held the last Friday of each month in Brooklyn, NY at Stain Bar (http://www.stainbar.com/). If you are a past (or future!) contributer and are interested in reading, please drop me a line at amyhappens @ gmail.com - thanks! Cheers, Amy King and Didi Menendez http://www.mipoesias.com/ --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 2 19:17:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:17:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Joyce Peseroff Message-ID: <261.9c2e32f.3161b56c@aol.com> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/04/02/a_poet_and_scholar_spins_ her_narrative/ A poet and scholar spins her narrative By Elisabeth Townsend, Globe Correspondent | April 2, 2006 ''What salesgirl sweet-talked you into that / leopard string bikini?" wrote Joyce Peseroff. ''Skin blistered pink, / you might as well have picnicked in the desert / under three or four nuclear tests," is how she described herself as an adolescent in her recently published ''Eastern Mountain Time." Sign up for: Globe Headlines e-mail | Breaking News Alerts In this, her fourth book of poetry, Peseroff's 41 poems include the ''Farmer's Almanac," which friend and poet Lloyd Schwartz called a ''playful yet literally ominous" work that was created ''out of a list of words and phrases from that venerable volume," and ''My Mother's Old Kitchen," one of the elegies to her parents, who died while she was preparing the paperback. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 2 19:20:38 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:20:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] big sky poets Message-ID: <262.89215fc.3161b646@aol.com> http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/entertainment/visual_arts/14243355.htm Poetry under a big sky B.H. Fairchild is one of the great poets to come from Kansas. Tell us your favorite. BY ARLICE DAVENPORT The Wichita Eagle A poet and his wife stroll through a museum in Florence, Italy, admiring the Renaissance sculptures on display. As he thinks about the beauty before him, he is swept back to his boyhood on the Kansas plains. There, men never spoke of beauty; it had no place in their hardworking, masculine world. They "knew the true meaning of labor and money and other / hard, true things and did not, did not ever, use the word, beauty." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt at hotmail.com Mon Apr 3 01:02:50 2006 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 05:02:50 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness zine new issue online Message-ID: PoetrySz's new issue, Issue 19, is now available online at http://www.poetrysz.net . It features the work of Dave Ruslander, Steve Dalachinsky, Lawrence Upton, Alex Nodopaka, JodiAnn Stevenson, Justin Hyde, Christopher Barnes, and Robert McLean. Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Send 4-6 poems, and a short bio in the body of your email to poetrysz at tyahoo.com . Please read the guidelines before submitting. Thanks very much. regards J Chan editor, PoetrySz http://www.poetrysz.net _________________________________________________________________ Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 3 01:10:15 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:10:15 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] big sky poets References: <262.89215fc.3161b646@aol.com> Message-ID: <005601c656dc$e59f8b30$0daa3852@ANNY> To know, in a town with a one-room storefront library where Durant's The Story of Philosophy was the raft I was floating on, though slowly sinking, too, in an endless cycle of work/eat/sleep, haunting the only bookstore within two hundred miles in Amarillo, when I could get there, and watching cars pass through to exotic California with those bright orange plates that seemed to say, life is somewhere else. (excerpt from the article below) ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 1:20 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] big sky poets http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/entertainment/visual_arts/14243355.htm Poetry under a big sky B.H. Fairchild is one of the great poets to come from Kansas. Tell us your favorite. BY ARLICE DAVENPORT The Wichita Eagle A poet and his wife stroll through a museum in Florence, Italy, admiring the Renaissance sculptures on display. As he thinks about the beauty before him, he is swept back to his boyhood on the Kansas plains. There, men never spoke of beauty; it had no place in their hardworking, masculine world. They "knew the true meaning of labor and money and other / hard, true things and did not, did not ever, use the word, beauty." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Apr 3 08:01:03 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] On Earth: Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20060403120103.47878.qmail@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS On Earth, the last poems of Robert Creeley Lisa Jarnot and Homer Iliad XXII as a political act Stanislaw Lem Watten on Braxton Selah Saterstrom and the Pink Institution - As I Lay Dying as told by Dodie Bellamy Betye, Lezley and Alison Saar 2 generations of African-American art Ian Hamilton Finlay The reversal of text and illustration in the work of Derek Fenner Some links to Anthony Braxton The jumble of unassimilated parts that is Sally Potter???s Yes Dmitri Prigov - What happens to conceptual poetics when reality is what changes? Hustle and Flow and the nature of an actor???s film Erica Carpenter ??? Perspective Would Have Us Jim Behrle on VH1 Some things to read in the new Brooklyn Rail (Kenny Goldsmith, Charles Bernstein, Ann Lauterbach, Amy King) What is exotic? The Barbara Jane Reyes comments stream Epigrammatitus ??? Kent Johnson at war with poetry and desperately in love Banned in Viet Nam ??? the poetry of Phan Nhien Hao Brecht on the New Sentence http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From edward.byrne at valpo.edu Mon Apr 3 13:22:00 2006 From: edward.byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:22:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spring/Summer issue of VPR Message-ID: <6918DB73-F719-411A-844D-37C1129CC433@valpo.edu> Announcement: Publication of the Spring/Summer 2006 issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review The Spring/Summer 2006 issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is now available at the following url: http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ *Spring/Summer 2006 Issue Contents* Featured Poet: Catherine Tufariello Additional Poets: Gil Allen, Ned Balbo, Claire Bateman, Anne Britting Bowman, Kim Bridgford, Michelle Brooks, Michael Dobberstein, Jeanine Dobbs, Lynnell Edwards, Brent Fisk, Norbert Krapf, Jeff Newberry, Allan Peterson, Michael Salcman, Matthew W. Schmeer, Davi Walder Interview: Kathleen Mullen interviews Catherine Tufariello Poets Reviewed: Patricia Clark, Barbara Crooker, B.H. Fairchild, Patricia Fargnoli, Lynn Levin, Catherine Tufariello Cover Art Commentary: Gregg Hertzlieb on Frank V. Dudley As always, the new issue includes a list of recently received and recommended books of poetry or poetics, as well as guidelines for submissions. All past issues of VPR and a complete archive of poems, essays, interviews, reviews, and commentary on art remain available for reading. -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Apr 3 08:11:48 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:11:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot Message-ID: A new website that publishes poetry and has a couple of mine posted. http://www.nccsc.net/Poetry/poetry_frameset.htm From clitophon at yahoo.com Mon Apr 3 15:30:08 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] das Westend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060403193008.91743.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, tomorrow night there?s a reading in Schwanh?hethaler. Armin Steigenberger and friends. This area of Munich is known as Das Westend (the Westend) and had a former reputation as a rough neighbourhood with lots of Turks and Greeks marginalised economically and no doubt having to fight their way in to get the money. The reading is at the Kulturladen, a small venue for readings and meetings. I?ll write a fuller report of the event. All these writers read at the Lyrik Kabinett last week, in Amalianstra?e, Schwabing. A venue very like the Poetry Library in London but a bit smaller. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 3 16:17:12 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:17:12 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot References: Message-ID: <002901c6575b$982bb700$1baf3452@ANNY> Good poems on an interesting site, From: "Paul Lake" Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:11 PM >A new website that publishes poetry and has a couple of mine posted. > > > http://www.nccsc.net/Poetry/poetry_frameset.htm > From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Apr 3 09:20:56 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:20:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: <002901c6575b$982bb700$1baf3452@ANNY> Message-ID: On 4/3/06 3:17 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Good poems on an interesting site, > > > From: "Paul Lake" > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:11 PM > > >> A new website that publishes poetry and has a couple of mine posted. >> >> >> http://www.nccsc.net/Poetry/poetry_frameset.htm >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Thanks, Anny. From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 16:37:19 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:37:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Albert Goldbarth Message-ID: <731bb17a0604031337x4d4d8311x7bf29f0d9f8f439b@mail.gmail.com> If any of you cats are in North Georgia: Albert Goldbarth, the only living two-time winner of the National Book Critics Circle Award in poetry and the author of some thirty volumes of poetry and prose, will read from his work on Monday, April 10, at 7 p.m. upstairs at Tasty World , on the corner of Broad and Jackson streets. The reading is open to the public free of charge. Goldbarth will be touring for the Georgia Poetry Circuit, a consortium of colleges and universities around the state which has been featuring nationally and internationally known writers for more than twenty years. *The Georgia Review *, the University of Georgia's acclaimed quarterly journal of arts and letters, is UGA's coordinating sponsor for the Circuit. Critic Judith Kitchen has said that "Albert Goldbarth just may be the American poet of his generation for the ages. Often humorous but always serious, Goldbarth combines erudite research, pop-culture fanaticism, and personal anecdote in ways that make his writings among the most stylistically recognizable in the literary world." The level of ambition in Goldbarth's work is revealed by a glance at a few of his book titles: *Arts and Sciences*, *The Gods*, *Combinations of the Universe*, and *Great Topics of the World*. Goldbarth's prodigious output?roughly one book per year for three decades?has included nearly two dozen poetry collections, a handful of essay collections, and a novel. Several of his books were first published the the UGA Press, including *Heaven and Earth: A Cosmology *(poems), winner of the 1992 National Book Critics Circle Award. In 2007, Graywolf Press will publish Goldbarth's *The Kitchen Sink: New and Selected Poems, 1972-2007*. Distinguished Professor of Humanities at Wichita State University since 1987, Goldbarth has earned three fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts and one from the Guggenheim Foundation, as well as the Center for the Study of Science Fiction Theodore Sturgeon Memorial Award. Here is one section out of nine in Albert Goldbarth's poem "Too Much," first published in *The Georgia Review* and then included in *Heaven and Earth: A Cosmology*: Give me a villain. Give me just one clearcut targeted ne'er-do-well with rat eyes and a smoking gun, to hold responsible all night while the stink of cordite settles. Well, he isn't here. He never was. It's all of us torturing all of us. It's dressed in its Sunday best. And the boy with the tumor? Of course The Great Shaheesh the Mystic Light was no more help than the great chemotherapy; now he's barely a doll of himself. I've watched his mother watch his face with the sun on it, then with the moon on it, watching until time had no meaning: we're floating, falling, yes, and even the unhearable klaxon-horn of a hadron, the unbroached stroke of a lepton, just a single neutrino barely in existence's embrace, is too much. Selected titles by Albert Goldbarth will be available for purchase at the reading. For further information, contact the office of *The Georgia Review*at 706-542-3481 or at garev at uga.edu. --David Ingle, Assistant Editor, *The Georgia Review* Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mac.com Mon Apr 3 19:58:41 2006 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:58:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 3, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Paul Lake wrote: > A new website that publishes poetry and has a couple of mine posted. > > > http://www.nccsc.net/Poetry/poetry_frameset.htm > Congratulations, Paul. "Home Free" speaks to me, though I'm not yet sure it's not because of the fight last week with my 14 y.o. From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Apr 3 20:23:12 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:23:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert Goldbarth In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0604031337x4d4d8311x7bf29f0d9f8f439b@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0604031337x4d4d8311x7bf29f0d9f8f439b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've heard that Goldbarth is good reader, though I've never had the chance. He begins to rival Joyce Carol Oates in output, doesn't he? I expect that the only person who's read everything he has published is Albert Goldbarth. I have 4 collections plus a chapbook of his on my shelf--the merest of samplings, I suppose. I like his work a good deal. Here's another sample, one of his relatively rare shorter poems: Vessels (Alexander von Humboldt) In Caracas, Venezuala, in 1800, one can listen to "the latest modern music"??Mozart, Hayden-- over sweetened ice, and Humboldt does, but once the rainy season ends, he's off for the obdurate forests of the Orinoco, and all of their grim amazements: streaming lengths of anaconda, surly crocodiles, and vampire that hover like nightmare hummingbirds over his hammock . . . yes, but the greatest jawgape amazement is surely a human, Se?or del Pozo of Calabozo (a dusty cattle?trading station), who, with no guide bit the treatise on electricity in Benjamin Franklin's Memoirs, "built an electrical apparatus, almost as good as the most advanced design in the laboratories of Europe." Marvels so often select unlikely vessels. Any alive enough soir?e should offer the example of a troll?like shnook on the arm of a luscious hotchahotcha beauty, or the former diner waitress with her petro?sheik amour . . . and then the tsking disbelief of the envious rest of us. But shouldn't we know? When God / His Son / His Virgin Wife decide on a Message of Ultimate Importance for All of Mankind, do They relay this through a group of visited presidents, sultans, queens, and similar potentates? Do comets spell it out, over Rio, Tokyo, mid?Manhattan? You know. One day in a one?burro scatter of ant?swarmed shacks in Mexico, or clutch of huts in the Urals a mute, retarded girl looks tip from the torpor of street dogs to the sky ??and speaks. Site's eloquent now with the Word, and the Way, and the air in her wake is electric. --Albert Goldbarth. Combinations of the Universe. Ohio State UP, 2003. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 3 20:49:28 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:49:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert Goldbarth Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2006 8:23:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: I've heard that Goldbarth is good reader, though I've never had the chance. He begins to rival Joyce Carol Oates in output, doesn't he? I expect that the only person who's read everything he has published is Albert Goldbarth. I have 4 collections plus a chapbook of his on my shelf--the merest of samplings, I suppose. I like his work a good deal. Here's another sample, one of his relatively rare shorter poems: I, too, count myself as favoring Goldbarth's poetry. But I think he's ruined his reputation by output. What is it about some poets? Do they lack discernment? I would endorse the project of these 'poetry machines' if I could check the wastebasket/recycle bin and be certain twice as much had been discarded as was submitted for publication. And if the proof was in the recycle bin, I'd wonder if they knew enough of life and the outside world to write so much. The age of the editor has past...he/she used to be gatekeeper. Now all presses are print-on-demand. And if no one is reading it...why not give them more not to read. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 3 21:20:24 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 21:20:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: [wallace_stevens] Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Billboard Message-ID: <296.8af4469.316323d8@aol.com> >From the Stevens' list... In a message dated 4/3/2006 1:53:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lawford at gci.net writes: _Thirteen ways of looking at a billboard_ (http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=39&url_article_id=13488&url_subchannel_id=&change _well_id=2) Gwinnett Daily Post - Griffin,GA,USA So here?sa little something for all you 20th-century poetry buffs out there, with apologies to Wallace Stevens and his poem ?Thirteen Ways of Looking at a ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "William T. Ford" Subject: [wallace_stevens] Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Billboard Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 09:52:05 -0800 Size: 3908 URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 3 21:42:15 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 21:42:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert Goldbarth References: Message-ID: <00a601c65789$00db35a0$79b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I, too, count myself as favoring Goldbarth's poetry. But I think he's ruined his reputation by output. What is it about some poets? Do they lack discernment? I would endorse the project of these 'poetry machines' if I could check the wastebasket/recycle bin and be certain twice as much had been discarded as was submitted for publication. And if the proof was in the recycle bin, I'd wonder if they knew enough of life and the outside world to write so much. The age of the editor has past...he/she used to be gatekeeper. Now all presses are print-on-demand. And if no one is reading it...why not give them more not to read. Finnegan Consider, however, the example of Wordsworth. If a counter-example can be posted unnegatively. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 4 08:18:40 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:18:40 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert Goldbarth References: <00a601c65789$00db35a0$79b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <005e01c657e1$e8855c70$8fdf3652@ANNY> Message notification: no guarantee that this message was read or understood_ (a poem by itself) (wondering in this moment if Hal has already noticed it in his signature) one of the most beautiful days ever, unluckily to be spent inside___ do I know the meaning of beauty? yes, the sun in your eyes with the shiver of pink and yellow of spring flowers and the first mild air with its lazy welcome -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 4 11:52:25 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:52:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution Message-ID: In my Poetry Aloud class I just finished teaching the anthology *The Spoken Word Revolution*, which went over quite well. I wonder if anyone else has taught this book? The subtitle is "Slam, Hip-Hop, and the Poetry of a New Generation," which means that it's rather thin on middle-aged white guys, among other things about which I have mixed feelings. Not completely devoid of them, in any case: we have token appearances by Edward Hirsch, Marvin Bell (?), and both Thomas Lux and Billy Collins contributing fine brief essays. The book comes with a CD of featured poets reading in front of an audience, and there are other mini-essays scattered through the book commenting on various elements of oral poetics. I guess I'm a convert to spoken word stuff, the best of which seems as good as anything out there. The anthology features many of the stars of the slam & Def Poetry Jam realm, such as Taylor Mali, Beau Sia, Saul Williams, Bob Holman, Sherman Alexie, Patricia Smith, and Regie Gibson. For the past few years I've been collecting books by spoken word poets who strike me as working well on the page, such as Matt Cook, Crystal Williams, Jeffrey McDaniel, and Patricia Smith. I'm always looking for other suggestions, if anyone has some. Here's one of Smith's poems (not featured in the anthology, btw)-- DOIN' THE LOUVRE Paris, December 1991 for Patricia Zamora You're a junkie just like I am. After we dump your husband in the Louvre's cafe to sip the steaming tea and chew on his poetry, we're off like schoolgirls, screeching in duet, dazzled by the bright eternal gasp of ancient things. We've got no business here, homegirl and companera, we've got no business working our mouths around his sharp, exquisite language or savoring the sweet tongue squeeze of pastries, shining cakes and shaved chocolate. We're of simpler stock -- city and country dust, collard greens, salsa picante, hopscotch, moonpies, bullet holes and basement slow dances. We are shamelessly American, rough street girls with rusty knees, the flip side of cocky Parisian wisps in slim cashmere coats the color of tobacco. Girlfriend, you and I are too much scream for this place, but you're a junkie just like I am. Too long denied access to official beauty, we walk these streets with our mouths open and faces tilted up swallowing everything, swallowing it all, much too much scenery and sound for our thin American throats. We gawk at cathedrals with their gargoyles bleached to an eerie snarl by bright slashes of moon, say goodbye when we mean yes, good morning when we mean how much, ask for bread when we need the toilet. We are amazed that no one is asking for all this back, that we are allowed to bask in this city's light. I can still hear my mother, as plain and practical as a cast iron skillet: "You need to stop all that foolishness over there in some France where you don't know nothing or nobody. Ain't no black folks over there no way." But I know you, old friend, with your burnished tangle of hair and deep laugh, and right now these halls belong to us. There are bad girls loose in the Louvre, girls soft as gunshots, girls nourished and fueled by silvers, silks, and the stone glare of Napoleon. We laugh at the smashed noses of Egyptian rulers, stare at the tiny mummified feet of a young girls, mistake Goya for Gauguin and rub what surfaces we can, including the marble cocks of towering deities. When we say things like, "Hey, I think I saw this one on a postcard once," or, "Do you know how old this thing is?" how can the world help but love us? We would give Venus our arms. After seven hours clicking our hungry heels and snapping illicit flash photos in dark halls brimming with whispered music, we find the Mona Lisa alone, caged and antiseptic, behind the glass every woman wears, and we wonder how best to free her, knowing she's a junkie just like we are. She longs for our wild voices, our naive, accidental beauty. She's achin' to ditch that frame and skip these hallowed halls with the homegirls, mistake the obscene for the exquisite, and gaze at unsolved mysteries that just for once are not her own. --Patricia Smith. "Big Towns, Big Talk," from Zoland Books. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Tue Apr 4 11:59:04 2006 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:59:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443297C8.1060803@ilstu.edu> Tony Medina. And I went to school with Crystal Williams. In addition to being a deeply inventive writer, she has a beautiful heart. Over the past 2 years we've had literally dozens of spoke word poets through Normal, Illinois -- and only a few of them I'd heard of before. Their stuff often does not live in print. Or if it does, in chapbooks (often self-made), or on CDs (again, often self-made). Friend and student Robbie Telfer is also someone to watch. Gabe David Graham wrote: > In my Poetry Aloud class I just finished teaching the anthology *The Spoken > Word Revolution*, which went over quite well. I wonder if anyone else has > taught this book? > > The subtitle is "Slam, Hip-Hop, and the Poetry of a New Generation," which > means that it's rather thin on middle-aged white guys, among other things > about which I have mixed feelings. Not completely devoid of them, in any > case: we have token appearances by Edward Hirsch, Marvin Bell (?), and both > Thomas Lux and Billy Collins contributing fine brief essays. > > The book comes with a CD of featured poets reading in front of an audience, > and there are other mini-essays scattered through the book commenting on > various elements of oral poetics. > > I guess I'm a convert to spoken word stuff, the best of which seems as good > as anything out there. The anthology features many of the stars of the slam > & Def Poetry Jam realm, such as Taylor Mali, Beau Sia, Saul Williams, Bob > Holman, Sherman Alexie, Patricia Smith, and Regie Gibson. > > For the past few years I've been collecting books by spoken word poets who > strike me as working well on the page, such as Matt Cook, Crystal Williams, > Jeffrey McDaniel, and Patricia Smith. I'm always looking for other > suggestions, if anyone has some. > > Here's one of Smith's poems (not featured in the anthology, btw)-- > > DOIN' THE LOUVRE > > Paris, December 1991 > for Patricia Zamora > > > You're a junkie just like I am. > > After we dump your husband in the Louvre's cafe > to sip the steaming tea and chew on his poetry, > we're off like schoolgirls, screeching in duet, > dazzled by the bright eternal gasp of ancient things. > > We've got no business here, homegirl and companera, > we've got no business > working our mouths around his sharp, exquisite language > or savoring the sweet tongue squeeze of pastries, > shining cakes and shaved chocolate. > > We're of simpler stock -- city and country dust, > collard greens, salsa picante, hopscotch, > moonpies, bullet holes and basement slow dances. > We are shamelessly American, > rough street girls with rusty knees, > the flip side of cocky Parisian wisps > in slim cashmere coats the color of tobacco. > > Girlfriend, you and I are too much scream for this place, > but you're a junkie just like I am. > Too long denied access to official beauty, > we walk these streets > with our mouths open and faces tilted up > swallowing everything, swallowing it all, > much too much scenery and sound > for our thin American throats. > We gawk at cathedrals with their gargoyles > bleached to an eerie snarl > by bright slashes of moon, > say goodbye when we mean yes, > good morning when we mean how much, > ask for bread when we need the toilet. > We are amazed that no one is asking for all this back, > that we are allowed to bask in this city's light. > > I can still hear my mother, > as plain and practical as a cast iron skillet: > "You need to stop all that foolishness > over there in some France > where you don't know nothing or nobody. > Ain't no black folks over there no way." > > But I know you, old friend, > with your burnished tangle of hair > and deep laugh, > and right now these halls belong to us. > There are > bad > girls > loose > in the Louvre, > girls soft as gunshots, > girls nourished and fueled by silvers, silks, > and the stone glare of Napoleon. > > We laugh at the smashed noses of Egyptian rulers, > stare at the tiny mummified feet of a young girls, > mistake Goya for Gauguin > and rub what surfaces we can, > including the marble cocks of towering deities. > When we say things like, > "Hey, I think I saw this one on a postcard once," > or, "Do you know how old this thing is?" > how can the world help but love us? > We would give Venus our arms. > > After seven hours > clicking our hungry heels > and snapping illicit flash photos > in dark halls brimming with whispered music, > we find the Mona Lisa alone, > caged and antiseptic, > behind the glass every woman wears, > and we wonder how best to free her, > knowing she's a junkie just like we are. > > She longs for our wild voices, > our naive, accidental beauty. > She's achin' to ditch that frame > and skip these hallowed halls with the homegirls, > mistake the obscene for the exquisite, > and gaze at unsolved mysteries > that just for once > are not her own. > > --Patricia Smith. "Big Towns, Big Talk," from Zoland Books. > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 12:28:12 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:28:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: <443297C8.1060803@ilstu.edu> References: <443297C8.1060803@ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <731bb17a0604040928mb611361y1c955cfe88047da7@mail.gmail.com> I like Taylor Mali quite a lot. He's as good on the page as he is aloud--a good benchmark? I don't know, but it's a test I use. I've heard some recordings and seen some videos of a cat named Sage Francis. He seems to have some talent but more often than not goes for merely shock value. Much of the spoken word stuff crosses over nicely with some of the more progressive hip hop: Paul Barman and MF DOOM come to mind, though neither is for everyone's taste. Jeff Newberry On 4/4/06, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > Tony Medina. And I went to school with Crystal Williams. In addition to > being a deeply inventive writer, she has a beautiful heart. > > Over the past 2 years we've had literally dozens of spoke word poets > through Normal, Illinois -- and only a few of them I'd heard of before. > Their stuff often does not live in print. Or if it does, in chapbooks > (often self-made), or on CDs (again, often self-made). Friend and > student Robbie Telfer is also someone to watch. > > Gabe > > David Graham wrote: > > In my Poetry Aloud class I just finished teaching the anthology *The > Spoken > > Word Revolution*, which went over quite well. I wonder if anyone else > has > > taught this book? > > > > The subtitle is "Slam, Hip-Hop, and the Poetry of a New Generation," > which > > means that it's rather thin on middle-aged white guys, among other > things > > about which I have mixed feelings. Not completely devoid of them, in > any > > case: we have token appearances by Edward Hirsch, Marvin Bell (?), and > both > > Thomas Lux and Billy Collins contributing fine brief essays. > > > > The book comes with a CD of featured poets reading in front of an > audience, > > and there are other mini-essays scattered through the book commenting on > > various elements of oral poetics. > > > > I guess I'm a convert to spoken word stuff, the best of which seems as > good > > as anything out there. The anthology features many of the stars of the > slam > > & Def Poetry Jam realm, such as Taylor Mali, Beau Sia, Saul Williams, > Bob > > Holman, Sherman Alexie, Patricia Smith, and Regie Gibson. > > > > For the past few years I've been collecting books by spoken word poets > who > > strike me as working well on the page, such as Matt Cook, Crystal > Williams, > > Jeffrey McDaniel, and Patricia Smith. I'm always looking for other > > suggestions, if anyone has some. > > > > Here's one of Smith's poems (not featured in the anthology, btw)-- > > > > DOIN' THE LOUVRE > > > > Paris, December 1991 > > for Patricia Zamora > > > > > > You're a junkie just like I am. > > > > After we dump your husband in the Louvre's cafe > > to sip the steaming tea and chew on his poetry, > > we're off like schoolgirls, screeching in duet, > > dazzled by the bright eternal gasp of ancient things. > > > > We've got no business here, homegirl and companera, > > we've got no business > > working our mouths around his sharp, exquisite language > > or savoring the sweet tongue squeeze of pastries, > > shining cakes and shaved chocolate. > > > > We're of simpler stock -- city and country dust, > > collard greens, salsa picante, hopscotch, > > moonpies, bullet holes and basement slow dances. > > We are shamelessly American, > > rough street girls with rusty knees, > > the flip side of cocky Parisian wisps > > in slim cashmere coats the color of tobacco. > > > > Girlfriend, you and I are too much scream for this place, > > but you're a junkie just like I am. > > Too long denied access to official beauty, > > we walk these streets > > with our mouths open and faces tilted up > > swallowing everything, swallowing it all, > > much too much scenery and sound > > for our thin American throats. > > We gawk at cathedrals with their gargoyles > > bleached to an eerie snarl > > by bright slashes of moon, > > say goodbye when we mean yes, > > good morning when we mean how much, > > ask for bread when we need the toilet. > > We are amazed that no one is asking for all this back, > > that we are allowed to bask in this city's light. > > > > I can still hear my mother, > > as plain and practical as a cast iron skillet: > > "You need to stop all that foolishness > > over there in some France > > where you don't know nothing or nobody. > > Ain't no black folks over there no way." > > > > But I know you, old friend, > > with your burnished tangle of hair > > and deep laugh, > > and right now these halls belong to us. > > There are > > bad > > girls > > loose > > in the Louvre, > > girls soft as gunshots, > > girls nourished and fueled by silvers, silks, > > and the stone glare of Napoleon. > > > > We laugh at the smashed noses of Egyptian rulers, > > stare at the tiny mummified feet of a young girls, > > mistake Goya for Gauguin > > and rub what surfaces we can, > > including the marble cocks of towering deities. > > When we say things like, > > "Hey, I think I saw this one on a postcard once," > > or, "Do you know how old this thing is?" > > how can the world help but love us? > > We would give Venus our arms. > > > > After seven hours > > clicking our hungry heels > > and snapping illicit flash photos > > in dark halls brimming with whispered music, > > we find the Mona Lisa alone, > > caged and antiseptic, > > behind the glass every woman wears, > > and we wonder how best to free her, > > knowing she's a junkie just like we are. > > > > She longs for our wild voices, > > our naive, accidental beauty. > > She's achin' to ditch that frame > > and skip these hallowed halls with the homegirls, > > mistake the obscene for the exquisite, > > and gaze at unsolved mysteries > > that just for once > > are not her own. > > > > --Patricia Smith. "Big Towns, Big Talk," from Zoland Books. > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ==================================================== > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 4 07:01:44 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 06:01:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/3/06 6:58 PM, "Michael Snider" wrote: > > On Apr 3, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Paul Lake wrote: > >> A new website that publishes poetry and has a couple of mine posted. >> >> >> http://www.nccsc.net/Poetry/poetry_frameset.htm >> > > > Congratulations, Paul. > > "Home Free" speaks to me, though I'm not yet sure it's not because > of the fight last week with my 14 y.o. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Thanks, Michael. Fourteen is a tough age for girls. My daughter is now a happily married college student with a high GPA. There's hope. Paul From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 4 14:32:14 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:32:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution References: Message-ID: <005701c65816$18a7c210$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> That's good stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: "NewPoetry" Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution > In my Poetry Aloud class I just finished teaching the anthology *The > Spoken > Word Revolution*, which went over quite well. I wonder if anyone else has > taught this book? > > The subtitle is "Slam, Hip-Hop, and the Poetry of a New Generation," which > means that it's rather thin on middle-aged white guys, among other things > about which I have mixed feelings. Not completely devoid of them, in any > case: we have token appearances by Edward Hirsch, Marvin Bell (?), and > both > Thomas Lux and Billy Collins contributing fine brief essays. > > The book comes with a CD of featured poets reading in front of an > audience, > and there are other mini-essays scattered through the book commenting on > various elements of oral poetics. > > I guess I'm a convert to spoken word stuff, the best of which seems as > good > as anything out there. The anthology features many of the stars of the > slam > & Def Poetry Jam realm, such as Taylor Mali, Beau Sia, Saul Williams, Bob > Holman, Sherman Alexie, Patricia Smith, and Regie Gibson. > > For the past few years I've been collecting books by spoken word poets who > strike me as working well on the page, such as Matt Cook, Crystal > Williams, > Jeffrey McDaniel, and Patricia Smith. I'm always looking for other > suggestions, if anyone has some. > > Here's one of Smith's poems (not featured in the anthology, btw)-- > > DOIN' THE LOUVRE > > Paris, December 1991 > for Patricia Zamora > > > You're a junkie just like I am. > > After we dump your husband in the Louvre's cafe > to sip the steaming tea and chew on his poetry, > we're off like schoolgirls, screeching in duet, > dazzled by the bright eternal gasp of ancient things. > > We've got no business here, homegirl and companera, > we've got no business > working our mouths around his sharp, exquisite language > or savoring the sweet tongue squeeze of pastries, > shining cakes and shaved chocolate. > > We're of simpler stock -- city and country dust, > collard greens, salsa picante, hopscotch, > moonpies, bullet holes and basement slow dances. > We are shamelessly American, > rough street girls with rusty knees, > the flip side of cocky Parisian wisps > in slim cashmere coats the color of tobacco. > > Girlfriend, you and I are too much scream for this place, > but you're a junkie just like I am. > Too long denied access to official beauty, > we walk these streets > with our mouths open and faces tilted up > swallowing everything, swallowing it all, > much too much scenery and sound > for our thin American throats. > We gawk at cathedrals with their gargoyles > bleached to an eerie snarl > by bright slashes of moon, > say goodbye when we mean yes, > good morning when we mean how much, > ask for bread when we need the toilet. > We are amazed that no one is asking for all this back, > that we are allowed to bask in this city's light. > > I can still hear my mother, > as plain and practical as a cast iron skillet: > "You need to stop all that foolishness > over there in some France > where you don't know nothing or nobody. > Ain't no black folks over there no way." > > But I know you, old friend, > with your burnished tangle of hair > and deep laugh, > and right now these halls belong to us. > There are > bad > girls > loose > in the Louvre, > girls soft as gunshots, > girls nourished and fueled by silvers, silks, > and the stone glare of Napoleon. > > We laugh at the smashed noses of Egyptian rulers, > stare at the tiny mummified feet of a young girls, > mistake Goya for Gauguin > and rub what surfaces we can, > including the marble cocks of towering deities. > When we say things like, > "Hey, I think I saw this one on a postcard once," > or, "Do you know how old this thing is?" > how can the world help but love us? > We would give Venus our arms. > > After seven hours > clicking our hungry heels > and snapping illicit flash photos > in dark halls brimming with whispered music, > we find the Mona Lisa alone, > caged and antiseptic, > behind the glass every woman wears, > and we wonder how best to free her, > knowing she's a junkie just like we are. > > She longs for our wild voices, > our naive, accidental beauty. > She's achin' to ditch that frame > and skip these hallowed halls with the homegirls, > mistake the obscene for the exquisite, > and gaze at unsolved mysteries > that just for once > are not her own. > > --Patricia Smith. "Big Towns, Big Talk," from Zoland Books. > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 4 14:56:57 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:56:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem Message-ID: >From the Academy of American Poets, as today's Poem of the Day. One-Word Poem by David R. Slavitt Motherless. Discussion questions. 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which the editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and publishers? Is the reader the audience of the poem? 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the poem to convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is the saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you suggest a sadder word? 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an alternate meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the poet knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this information change your emotional response? 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a joke, then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either invites or defies the reader to understand? 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that necessarily diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author assert ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which word to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent a great deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary and let his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or is it a kind of bibliomancy? 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even without being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it change the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? Or would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. But it would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more difficult now that this one has been published and staked its claim. Is the publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet written his poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to do, would this make it a different poem? 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we memorize. You have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? Will you, anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea enough? --------------------------- Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just published by Louisiana State University Press. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 4 15:14:12 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:14:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think Slavitt could have trimmed that a bit, maybe by omitting the last syllable. Hal "The thing to remember is that each time of life has its appropriate rewards, whereas when you're dead it's hard to find the light switch." --Woody Allen Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:56 PM, David Graham wrote: >> From the Academy of American Poets, as today's Poem of the Day. > > > > One-Word Poem > by David R. Slavitt > > Motherless. > > Discussion questions. > > 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in > which the > editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook > writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and > publishers? Is > the reader the audience of the poem? > > 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of > the poem to > convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is > the > saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you > suggest a > sadder word? > > 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an > alternate > meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an > intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that > the poet > knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this > information change your emotional response? > > 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not > a joke, > then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky > perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either > invites or > defies the reader to understand? > > 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that > necessarily > diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? > > 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author > assert > ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? > > 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be > which word > to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet > spent a great > deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary > and let > his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or > is it a > kind of bibliomancy? > > 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even > without > being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it > change > the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no > punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or > worse? Or > would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) > > 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. > But it > would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more > difficult now that this one has been published and staked its > claim. Is the > publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet > written his > poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to > do, would > this make it a different poem? > > 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we > memorize. You > have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the > questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? > Will you, > anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea > enough? > --------------------------- > > Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just > published > by Louisiana State University Press. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 4 15:49:12 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:49:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution Message-ID: <32c.1917e3e.316427b8@aol.com> In a message dated 4/4/2006 11:52:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: rather thin on middle-aged white guys, among other things about which I have mixed feelings. Turns out middle aged white guys pretty much founded the Slam movement. Marc Smith of Green Mill in Chi-town. _http://www.e-poets.net/library/slam/converge.html_ (http://www.e-poets.net/library/slam/converge.html) Michael Brown based out of the Cantab Lounge in Boston. And of course Bob Holman was an early promoter at the Nuyorican. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 4 16:00:07 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:00:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert Goldbarth Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2006 9:42:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Consider, however, the example of Wordsworth. If a counter-example can be posted unnegatively. --Bob G. How much of the Wordsworth corpus, swollen and bloated as it is in some the extremeties, was published during his lifetime? I don't know the answer... Bob, you know and I know the difference between negative and nasty. The former is list permitted but not the latter. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 4 16:02:54 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:02:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution References: <32c.1917e3e.316427b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <00d301c65822$c2f3d590$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> And middle-aged white women. I know that Mary Shen Barnidge was one of the key figures in the early Chicago slam scene. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution In a message dated 4/4/2006 11:52:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: rather thin on middle-aged white guys, among other things about which I have mixed feelings. Turns out middle aged white guys pretty much founded the Slam movement. Marc Smith of Green Mill in Chi-town. http://www.e-poets.net/library/slam/converge.html Michael Brown based out of the Cantab Lounge in Boston. And of course Bob Holman was an early promoter at the Nuyorican. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 4 17:34:50 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:34:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Albert Goldbarth Message-ID: <28b.8d7b337.3164407a@aol.com> In a message dated 4/4/2006 4:00:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: How much of the Wordsworth corpus, swollen and bloated as it is in some the extremeties, was published during his lifetime? I don't know the answer... Bob, you know and I know the difference between negative and nasty. The former is list permitted but not the latter. Finnegan Probably more if it as Wordswroth got older and his reputation increased. Goldbarth is remarkably consistent for someone who writes so much, but I never feel like I'm going to miss something important if I don't get or read his new book right away because I know another 150 pages is coming in another two years. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 4 20:55:58 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 20:55:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: Message-ID: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Here's my somewhat related one-word poem: whomb It's from Ampersand Squared, an anthology of one-word poems edited by Geof Huth. --Bob G. >I think Slavitt could have trimmed that a bit, maybe > by omitting the last syllable. > > Hal > > "The thing to remember is that each time > of life has its appropriate rewards, whereas > when you're dead it's hard to find the light > switch." > --Woody Allen > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:56 PM, David Graham wrote: > >>> From the Academy of American Poets, as today's Poem of the Day. >> >> >> >> One-Word Poem >> by David R. Slavitt >> >> Motherless. >> >> Discussion questions. >> >> 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which the >> editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook >> writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and publishers? >> Is >> the reader the audience of the poem? >> >> 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the >> poem to >> convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is the >> saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you suggest >> a >> sadder word? >> >> 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an >> alternate >> meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an >> intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the >> poet >> knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this >> information change your emotional response? >> >> 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a >> joke, >> then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky >> perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either invites >> or >> defies the reader to understand? >> >> 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that necessarily >> diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? >> >> 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author >> assert >> ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? >> >> 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which >> word >> to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent a >> great >> deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary and >> let >> his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or is >> it a >> kind of bibliomancy? >> >> 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even without >> being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it >> change >> the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no >> punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? Or >> would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) >> >> 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. But it >> would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more >> difficult now that this one has been published and staked its claim. Is >> the >> publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet written >> his >> poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to do, >> would >> this make it a different poem? >> >> 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we memorize. >> You >> have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the >> questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? Will >> you, >> anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea >> enough? >> --------------------------- >> >> Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just >> published >> by Louisiana State University Press. >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ==================================================== >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 4 21:34:17 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:34:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I was assuming the whole thing -- discussion questions and all -- was the poem? Not just the one word? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem > Here's my somewhat related one-word poem: > > > whomb > > > It's from Ampersand Squared, an anthology of one-word poems edited by Geof > Huth. > > --Bob G. > > >>I think Slavitt could have trimmed that a bit, maybe >> by omitting the last syllable. >> >> Hal >> >> "The thing to remember is that each time >> of life has its appropriate rewards, whereas >> when you're dead it's hard to find the light >> switch." >> --Woody Allen >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard at earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:56 PM, David Graham wrote: >> >>>> From the Academy of American Poets, as today's Poem of the Day. >>> >>> >>> >>> One-Word Poem >>> by David R. Slavitt >>> >>> Motherless. >>> >>> Discussion questions. >>> >>> 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which >>> the >>> editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook >>> writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and publishers? >>> Is >>> the reader the audience of the poem? >>> >>> 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the >>> poem to >>> convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is the >>> saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you suggest >>> a >>> sadder word? >>> >>> 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an >>> alternate >>> meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an >>> intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the >>> poet >>> knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this >>> information change your emotional response? >>> >>> 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a >>> joke, >>> then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky >>> perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either invites >>> or >>> defies the reader to understand? >>> >>> 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that >>> necessarily >>> diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? >>> >>> 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author >>> assert >>> ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? >>> >>> 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which >>> word >>> to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent a >>> great >>> deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary and >>> let >>> his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or is >>> it a >>> kind of bibliomancy? >>> >>> 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even >>> without >>> being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it >>> change >>> the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no >>> punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? Or >>> would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) >>> >>> 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. But >>> it >>> would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more >>> difficult now that this one has been published and staked its claim. Is >>> the >>> publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet written >>> his >>> poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to do, >>> would >>> this make it a different poem? >>> >>> 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we >>> memorize. You >>> have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the >>> questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? Will >>> you, >>> anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea >>> enough? >>> --------------------------- >>> >>> Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just >>> published >>> by Louisiana State University Press. >>> >>> ==================================================== >>> David Graham >>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>> Home Page: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>> Poetry Library: >>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>> ==================================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 5 06:23:03 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 06:23:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'm planning to discuss the Academy of American Poets' one-word poem at my blog today. I can't discuss it or your response here, Mole, because of my vow not to besmirch this hallowed forum with . . . negativity. Since you've made no such vow, why don't you entertain us with your opinion as to why the Academy of American Poets' one-word poem seems to you ineffective as a poem without the text that follows it. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem >I was assuming the whole thing -- discussion questions and all -- was the >poem? Not just the one word? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Grumman" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem > > >> Here's my somewhat related one-word poem: >> >> >> whomb >> >> >> It's from Ampersand Squared, an anthology of one-word poems edited by >> Geof Huth. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> >>>I think Slavitt could have trimmed that a bit, maybe >>> by omitting the last syllable. >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "The thing to remember is that each time >>> of life has its appropriate rewards, whereas >>> when you're dead it's hard to find the light >>> switch." >>> --Woody Allen >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard at earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> >>> On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:56 PM, David Graham wrote: >>> >>>>> From the Academy of American Poets, as today's Poem of the Day. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> One-Word Poem >>>> by David R. Slavitt >>>> >>>> Motherless. >>>> >>>> Discussion questions. >>>> >>>> 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which >>>> the >>>> editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook >>>> writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and publishers? >>>> Is >>>> the reader the audience of the poem? >>>> >>>> 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the >>>> poem to >>>> convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is >>>> the >>>> saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you >>>> suggest a >>>> sadder word? >>>> >>>> 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an >>>> alternate >>>> meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an >>>> intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the >>>> poet >>>> knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this >>>> information change your emotional response? >>>> >>>> 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a >>>> joke, >>>> then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky >>>> perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either >>>> invites or >>>> defies the reader to understand? >>>> >>>> 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that >>>> necessarily >>>> diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? >>>> >>>> 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author >>>> assert >>>> ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? >>>> >>>> 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which >>>> word >>>> to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent a >>>> great >>>> deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary and >>>> let >>>> his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or is >>>> it a >>>> kind of bibliomancy? >>>> >>>> 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even >>>> without >>>> being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it >>>> change >>>> the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no >>>> punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? >>>> Or >>>> would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) >>>> >>>> 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. But >>>> it >>>> would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more >>>> difficult now that this one has been published and staked its claim. >>>> Is the >>>> publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet written >>>> his >>>> poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to do, >>>> would >>>> this make it a different poem? >>>> >>>> 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we >>>> memorize. You >>>> have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the >>>> questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? >>>> Will you, >>>> anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea >>>> enough? >>>> --------------------------- >>>> >>>> Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just >>>> published >>>> by Louisiana State University Press. >>>> >>>> ==================================================== >>>> David Graham >>>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>>> Home Page: >>>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>>> Poetry Library: >>>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>>> ==================================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 5 06:45:20 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:45:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <006001c6589e$09083e10$85d63152@ANNY> I besmirch you besmirch I am a bee- of a smirch of a tree to the stirch due to smirch of the bee on the tree stitch the smirch to the stirch of the smirch of the beesmirch being besmirched by the smirch of a bee___ negatively hiving yours, one-word poem: neghive From tad at opus40.org Wed Apr 5 08:10:19 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:10:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000a01c658a9$e89230d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> This is, of course, not what I said. Let by T. S. Eliot, may or may not be an effective poem, but it's not the poem as Eliot wrote it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem > I'm planning to discuss the Academy of American Poets' one-word poem at my > blog today. I can't discuss it or your response here, Mole, because of my > vow not to besmirch this hallowed forum with . . . negativity. > > Since you've made no such vow, why don't you entertain us with your > opinion as to why the Academy of American Poets' one-word poem seems to > you ineffective as a poem without the text that follows it. > > --Bob G. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TheOldMole" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:34 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem > > >>I was assuming the whole thing -- discussion questions and all -- was the >>poem? Not just the one word? >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bob Grumman" >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem >> >> >>> Here's my somewhat related one-word poem: >>> >>> >>> whomb >>> >>> >>> It's from Ampersand Squared, an anthology of one-word poems edited by >>> Geof Huth. >>> >>> --Bob G. >>> >>> >>>>I think Slavitt could have trimmed that a bit, maybe >>>> by omitting the last syllable. >>>> >>>> Hal >>>> >>>> "The thing to remember is that each time >>>> of life has its appropriate rewards, whereas >>>> when you're dead it's hard to find the light >>>> switch." >>>> --Woody Allen >>>> >>>> Halvard Johnson >>>> ================ >>>> halvard at earthlink.net >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard >>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>> >>>> On Apr 4, 2006, at 2:56 PM, David Graham wrote: >>>> >>>>>> From the Academy of American Poets, as today's Poem of the Day. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> One-Word Poem >>>>> by David R. Slavitt >>>>> >>>>> Motherless. >>>>> >>>>> Discussion questions. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which >>>>> the >>>>> editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook >>>>> writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and >>>>> publishers? Is >>>>> the reader the audience of the poem? >>>>> >>>>> 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the >>>>> poem to >>>>> convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is >>>>> the >>>>> saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you >>>>> suggest a >>>>> sadder word? >>>>> >>>>> 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an >>>>> alternate >>>>> meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an >>>>> intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the >>>>> poet >>>>> knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this >>>>> information change your emotional response? >>>>> >>>>> 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a >>>>> joke, >>>>> then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky >>>>> perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either >>>>> invites or >>>>> defies the reader to understand? >>>>> >>>>> 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that >>>>> necessarily >>>>> diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? >>>>> >>>>> 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author >>>>> assert >>>>> ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? >>>>> >>>>> 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which >>>>> word >>>>> to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent >>>>> a great >>>>> deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary >>>>> and let >>>>> his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or >>>>> is it a >>>>> kind of bibliomancy? >>>>> >>>>> 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even >>>>> without >>>>> being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it >>>>> change >>>>> the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no >>>>> punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? >>>>> Or >>>>> would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) >>>>> >>>>> 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. But >>>>> it >>>>> would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more >>>>> difficult now that this one has been published and staked its claim. >>>>> Is the >>>>> publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet >>>>> written his >>>>> poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to >>>>> do, would >>>>> this make it a different poem? >>>>> >>>>> 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we >>>>> memorize. You >>>>> have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the >>>>> questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? >>>>> Will you, >>>>> anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea >>>>> enough? >>>>> --------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just >>>>> published >>>>> by Louisiana State University Press. >>>>> >>>>> ==================================================== >>>>> David Graham >>>>> grahamd at ripon.edu >>>>> Home Page: >>>>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >>>>> Poetry Library: >>>>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >>>>> ==================================================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New-Poetry mailing list >>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 5 10:47:13 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:47:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One-Word Poem In-Reply-To: <000a01c658a9$e89230d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: Yes, it seems obvious enough that Slavitt's piece, whether it's called a poem or a piece of guerrilla criticism or whatever, doesn't make any sense without the discussion questions. They're his whole point. And part of that point, it seems clear, is that one can weave such a clever critical web around nearly *any* word or phrase. I posted the piece because I thought it was simultaneously hilarious (a lovely spoof of the clunky apparatus found in most teaching anthologies) and rather good at cutting to the quick of some big issues of "experimental" poetics--quite seriously, I would say. Robert Benchley once published a similar piece called, as I recall, "Shakespeare Explained." It consisted of one piece of entirely mundane stage directions ("exit, stage left" or some such), followed by three pages of pseudo-erudite footnotes. T. S. Eliot has a lot to answer for, having burdened us forever with those pesky footnotes to "The Waste Land". . . . . On 4/5/06 7:10 AM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > This is, of course, not what I said. > > Let > > by T. S. Eliot, may or may not be an effective poem, but it's not the poem > as Eliot wrote it. > > One-Word Poem by David R. Slavitt Motherless. Discussion questions. 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which the editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and publishers? Is the reader the audience of the poem? 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the poem to convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is the saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you suggest a sadder word? 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an alternate meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the poet knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this information change your emotional response? 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a joke, then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either invites or defies the reader to understand? 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that necessarily diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author assert ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which word to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent a great deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary and let his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or is it a kind of bibliomancy? 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even without being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it change the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? Or would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) 9. You can almost certainly write?or ?write??a one-word poem. But it would be difficult for you to get it published?almost certainly more difficult now that this one has been published and staked its claim. Is the publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet written his poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to do, would this make it a different poem? 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we memorize. You have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? Will you, anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea enough? --------------------------- Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just published by Louisiana State University Press. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 5 11:17:45 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:17:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sonnet: My Dog Sunyata" Message-ID: <195B68D5-71E6-44D0-826C-203CA80A4638@earthlink.net> Sonnet: My Dog Sunyata Having a bite--felafel or maybe a slice of pizza (extra cheese, no meat)--I watched the dog outside, leashed to a utility pole, sitting quietly, waiting for its master or mistress, whatever, reminding me of my dog Sunyata, who never failed to amuse me whenever I took notice of him. "Here, Sunyata," I would command, and he would unfailingly obey, come to wherever I was and sit there, looking up at me with his brown eyes. My dog Sunyata hated the president as much as I did, rolled his eyes and growled whenever he came on TV. My wife had taken to leaving us alone at such times, knowing that to do otherwise would invite retribution. Streetcars still came and went in those days, taking their power from overhead powerlines, as though power were something just there to be taken. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Apr 5 11:23:28 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:23:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sonnet: My Dog Sunyata" Message-ID: <326.13a680e.31653af0@cs.com> In a message dated 4/5/2006 10:17:58 AM Central Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > > Sonnet: My Dog Sunyata > > > Having a bite--felafel or maybe a slice of pizza (extra > cheese, no meat)--I watched the dog outside, leashed to a utility > pole, sitting quietly, waiting for its master or mistress, whatever, > reminding me of my dog Sunyata, who never failed to amuse > > > me whenever I took notice of him. "Here, Sunyata," > I would command, and he would unfailingly obey, come > to wherever I was and sit there, looking up at me > with his brown eyes. My dog Sunyata hated the president > > > as much as I did, rolled his eyes and growled whenever > he came on TV. My wife had taken to leaving us alone > at such times, knowing that to do otherwise would invite > retribution. Streetcars still came and went in those days, > > > taking their power from overhead powerlines, as though > power were something just there to be taken. > Wasn't it Cato the Elder who, no matter what subject he was speaking on, would always managed to get Carthago delenda est in? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 5 11:28:37 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:28:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] 'Sonnet: My Dog Sunyata' Message-ID: <20060405152837.9EBC513D01@smapp02.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 13:26:38 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:26:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: <00d301c65822$c2f3d590$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <32c.1917e3e.316427b8@aol.com> <00d301c65822$c2f3d590$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604051026p317f69c2o812a97b1359d09a4@mail.gmail.com> David: While Alexie has done some of the very few spoken word poems that are worth more than the paper they are written on, his work is far, far stronger on the page. I'm almost tempted to give more of it a listen if you've been converted, but the proportion of crap seems even higher in spoken word/slam poetry than elsewhere. On the other hand, there are some hip-hop artists whose lyrics really are-- well-- lyrical, and damn fine poems, though they don't do well on paper. Particularly the abstract hip-hop artists who so obviously love the sound of the words *just* for their sound. c From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 5 13:53:29 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 12:53:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoken Word Revolution Message-ID: <20060405175329.22FE42EC016@smapp01.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 5 15:09:42 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:09:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0604051026p317f69c2o812a97b1359d09a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: As I say, I'm kind of a convert. While it would be silly to deny that the realm of slams and spoken word is rife with pukey material--you don't have to attend many open mikes in this land to realize how much crap there is-- some might argue that so are the literary journals, from *Hudson Review* all the way down to *Stinkbug Galore*. (Not to mention all the amateur hour stuff all over the web.) Whether the proportion of crap is larger in one realm than another, well, that's probably a tail-chasing argument. It's true that many good read-aloud pieces don't work especially well on the page, just as many song lyrics don't. But many do. In any case, the past few years have seen quite a proliferation of collections of oral poetry in book form, so it's pretty easy to check out what's there. In addition to *The Spoken Word Revolution*, some other anthologies that I think contain good page poems are *Aloud* (from the Nuyorican Cafe), *Bum Rush the Page*, *Poetry Nation: North American Anthology of Fusion Poetry*, and *Listen Up!* (perhaps the most "literary" of the bunch--edited by Zoe Anglesey). Not spoken word per se, but a very fine anthology one of whose editing criteria is read-aloud performability, is Charles Harper Webb's *Stand Up Poetry*, a book that I also use in my Poetry Aloud course. I agree that Sherman Alexie is a different cat than many in the slam world--more versatile, for one thing. I mentioned some other names yesterday, but let me list a few again. If you check out books by the following and are still left cold, you probably *aren't* going to warm up to spoken word: Crystal Williams Patricia Smith Matt Cook Jeffrey McDaniel Jack McCarthy Tracie Morris Tim Seibles Jimmy Santiago Baca Wanda Coleman Not to mention, of course, the host of elders looming behind such lists: Allen Ginsberg, Etheridge Knight, Sonia Sanchez, Langston Hughes, Carl Sandburg, et al. On 4/5/06 12:26 PM, "Chris Lott" wrote: > David: > > While Alexie has done some of the very few spoken word poems that are > worth more than the paper they are written on, his work is far, far > stronger on the page. > > I'm almost tempted to give more of it a listen if you've been > converted, but the proportion of crap seems even higher in spoken > word/slam poetry than elsewhere. > > On the other hand, there are some hip-hop artists whose lyrics really > are-- well-- lyrical, and damn fine poems, though they don't do well > on paper. Particularly the abstract hip-hop artists who so obviously > love the sound of the words *just* for their sound. > > c > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 5 15:22:17 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:22:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try Larry Goodell while you're at it. Hal "Anything is art if an artist says it is." --Marcel Duchamp Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 5, 2006, at 3:09 PM, David Graham wrote: > As I say, I'm kind of a convert. While it would be silly to deny > that the > realm of slams and spoken word is rife with pukey material--you > don't have > to attend many open mikes in this land to realize how much crap > there is-- > some might argue that so are the literary journals, from *Hudson > Review* all > the way down to *Stinkbug Galore*. (Not to mention all the > amateur hour > stuff all over the web.) > > Whether the proportion of crap is larger in one realm than another, > well, > that's probably a tail-chasing argument. It's true that many good > read-aloud pieces don't work especially well on the page, just as > many song > lyrics don't. But many do. > > In any case, the past few years have seen quite a proliferation of > collections of oral poetry in book form, so it's pretty easy to > check out > what's there. In addition to *The Spoken Word Revolution*, some other > anthologies that I think contain good page poems are *Aloud* (from the > Nuyorican Cafe), *Bum Rush the Page*, *Poetry Nation: North American > Anthology of Fusion Poetry*, and *Listen Up!* (perhaps the most > "literary" > of the bunch--edited by Zoe Anglesey). > > Not spoken word per se, but a very fine anthology one of whose editing > criteria is read-aloud performability, is Charles Harper Webb's > *Stand Up > Poetry*, a book that I also use in my Poetry Aloud course. > > I agree that Sherman Alexie is a different cat than many in the slam > world--more versatile, for one thing. I mentioned some other names > yesterday, but let me list a few again. If you check out books by the > following and are still left cold, you probably *aren't* going to > warm up to > spoken word: > > Crystal Williams > Patricia Smith > Matt Cook > Jeffrey McDaniel > Jack McCarthy > Tracie Morris > Tim Seibles > Jimmy Santiago Baca > Wanda Coleman > > Not to mention, of course, the host of elders looming behind such > lists: > Allen Ginsberg, Etheridge Knight, Sonia Sanchez, Langston Hughes, Carl > Sandburg, et al. > > > > > On 4/5/06 12:26 PM, "Chris Lott" wrote: > >> David: >> >> While Alexie has done some of the very few spoken word poems that are >> worth more than the paper they are written on, his work is far, far >> stronger on the page. >> >> I'm almost tempted to give more of it a listen if you've been >> converted, but the proportion of crap seems even higher in spoken >> word/slam poetry than elsewhere. >> >> On the other hand, there are some hip-hop artists whose lyrics really >> are-- well-- lyrical, and damn fine poems, though they don't do well >> on paper. Particularly the abstract hip-hop artists who so obviously >> love the sound of the words *just* for their sound. >> >> c >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 5 16:29:05 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:29:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One-Word Poem References: Message-ID: <005901c658ef$963d0fd0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> So the discussion questions were Slavitt's? I don't visit the Academy of American Poets site very often, so thought the wed-editers added the discussion questions. It looked to me like they're posting one poem a day for classrooms--with discussion questions. I haven't checked on this yet, though. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: "NewPoetry" Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: One-Word Poem > > Yes, it seems obvious enough that Slavitt's piece, whether it's called a > poem or a piece of guerrilla criticism or whatever, doesn't make any sense > without the discussion questions. They're his whole point. And part of > that point, it seems clear, is that one can weave such a clever critical > web > around nearly *any* word or phrase. > > I posted the piece because I thought it was simultaneously hilarious (a > lovely spoof of the clunky apparatus found in most teaching anthologies) > and > rather good at cutting to the quick of some big issues of "experimental" > poetics--quite seriously, I would say. > > Robert Benchley once published a similar piece called, as I recall, > "Shakespeare Explained." It consisted of one piece of entirely mundane > stage directions ("exit, stage left" or some such), followed by three > pages > of pseudo-erudite footnotes. > > T. S. Eliot has a lot to answer for, having burdened us forever with those > pesky footnotes to "The Waste Land". . . . . > > On 4/5/06 7:10 AM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > >> This is, of course, not what I said. >> >> Let >> >> by T. S. Eliot, may or may not be an effective poem, but it's not the >> poem >> as Eliot wrote it. >> >> > One-Word Poem > by David R. Slavitt > > Motherless. > > Discussion questions. > > 1. Is this a joke? And, if so, is it a joke of the poet in which the > editor of the magazine (or, later, the book publisher or the textbook > writers) has conspired? Or is it a joke on the editors and publishers? Is > the reader the audience of the poem? > > 2. It is regrettable not to have a mother. Is the purpose of the poem > to > convey an emotion to the reader? Does the poet suppose that this is the > saddest word in the language? Do you agree or disagree? Can you suggest a > sadder word? > > 3. The Supplement to the Oxford English Dictionary gives an alternate > meaning from nineteenth- and twentieth-century Australian slang as an > intensifier, as in ?stone motherless broke.? Can you assume that the poet > knew this? Does this make for an ambiguity in the poem? Does this > information change your emotional response? > > 4. If the assertion of the single word as a work of art is not a joke, > then what could it mean? Is it a Dada-ist gesture, amusing and cheeky > perhaps but with an underlying seriousness that the poet either invites or > defies the reader to understand? > > 5. Even if the poet was merely fooling around, does that necessarily > diminish the possible seriousness of the poem? > > 6. If we acknowledge that this is a work of art, can the author assert > ownership? Is it possible to copyright a one-word poem? > > 7. In writing a one-word poem, the crucial decision must be which word > to choose and to posit as a work of art. Do you think the poet spent a > great > deal of time picking this word? Or did he simply open a dictionary and let > his fingers do the walking? Does that diminish the poem?s value? Or is it > a > kind of bibliomancy? > > 8. Should the word have been in quotes? Or is it quotes even without > being in quotes? There is a period at the end of the poem. Would it change > the meaning of the poem if there were an exclamation point? Or no > punctuation at all? Would that be a different poem? Better or worse? Or > would you like it more or less? (Are these different questions?) > > 9. You can almost certainly write > would be difficult for you to get > it published > difficult now that this one has been published and staked > its claim. Is the > publication of a poem a part of the creative act? Had the poet written his > poem and put it away in his desk drawer as Emily Dickinson used to do, > would > this make it a different poem? > > 10. Some poems we read and some that we particularly like, we memorize. > You > have already memorized this one. Do you like it better now? Or are the > questions part of the poem, so that you have not yet memorized it? Will > you, > anyway? Do you need to memorize the questions verbatim, or is the idea > enough? > --------------------------- > > Today's poem is from William Henry Harrison and Other Poems, just > published > by Louisiana State University Press. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 5 16:34:31 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:34:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <000a01c658a9$e89230d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <006f01c658f0$582fc9c0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > This is, of course, not what I said. > > Let > > by T. S. Eliot, may or may not be an effective poem, but it's not the poem > as Eliot wrote it. You're right. I hope you can see why I might have mistakenly taken you to have been belittling the poem as a poem without all the discussion questions. --Bob G. From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 16:46:55 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:46:55 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: References: <9b1b9dab0604051026p317f69c2o812a97b1359d09a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604051346q6f10c333kc8a17759c6dcb53f@mail.gmail.com> There are a couple of different questions being mixed together here. One being spoken word poems that work on the page and the second being spoken word poems that work as spoken word poems. The first seems to be what you are referring to and I can't say much about it, not having read a lot of transcribed spoken word poems. For some reason it doesn't interest me any more than tracking down poems that have been set to music. I don't even know what being good or better after that kind of form-juggling *means*-- is a really good poem one that works both ways or one that can't work both ways because it really embraces the medium? About the second I can confidently say that in my experience the proportion of really bad poems is significantly higher than in print. Poetry slams, Def Poetry Jams-- for the most part the work stinks badly. There are probably all kinds of gradations in there I am unaware of. No tail-chasing necessary, nor do I care if anyone agrees or disagrees. It's just my take. After "experiencing" them I am unlikely to chase them down in print to see if they are better. This most likely just represents my own built-in bias-- I covet a good poem far more than a good song lyric, both of which are usually more interesting to me than even a top-drawer (top-tape?) spoken word poem. Alexie is definitely an outlier in my experience. The thing is, if I do follow my advice and like the books, I've hardly really warmed up to the spoken word, have I? Aren't spoken word poems divorced from their live (and spontaneous) context like song lyrics divorced from their songs? c From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 16:49:58 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:49:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0604051346q6f10c333kc8a17759c6dcb53f@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0604051026p317f69c2o812a97b1359d09a4@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0604051346q6f10c333kc8a17759c6dcb53f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604051349y1e72e5ffq3578bf6d013aca6e@mail.gmail.com> And about those "elders lurking behind the list"-- you are talking then about folks who give a good reading. Seems like yet another almost wholly different thing-- a pretty insignificant link between Sandburg/Hughes and even a great example of Poetry Slammer. Yeah, they both are speaking out loud, but... c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 5 17:14:17 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:14:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <006001c6589e$09083e10$85d63152@ANNY> Message-ID: <00ba01c658f5$e655c3d0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> You're definitely from an ahive, A-nnie. I got nothin' else to say. B-ob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 5 17:24:43 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:24:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><000a01c658a9$e89230d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <006f01c658f0$582fc9c0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00d101c658f7$5c5aaa90$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I was wrong: the one-word poem was not a one-word poem but an elaborate joke. I'm going to my blog now to give my opinion of it. --Bob G. From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 5 18:30:22 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:30:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] All-American Sestina Message-ID: <20060405223022.4BD942EC015@smapp01.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 5 20:53:58 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:53:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: More Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0604051349y1e72e5ffq3578bf6d013aca6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9b1b9dab0604051026p317f69c2o812a97b1359d09a4@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0604051346q6f10c333kc8a17759c6dcb53f@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0604051349y1e72e5ffq3578bf6d013aca6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01FD9DAB-4445-4AED-B7F4-B99921EAE04F@ripon.edu> I do love this discussion, first off. Matters dear to my heart and ears. Second, I hope I'm not being merely contentious when I say that I'm not sure I'm talking about something wholly different. I wasn't thinking just about people who read aloud well, no. At least not with all those elders. Sandburg, maybe, who was apparently better in performance than he was on the page. But Ginsberg seems essentially incomprehensible to me without hearing his work aloud, knowing his ideas about breath units, understanding his connection to liturgical forms, etc. (Nor would I say all of Ginsberg is worth reading *or* hearing aloud!) With Langston Hughes, his whole aesthetic is, it seems, grounded in orality, specifically African American speech and forms. Furthermore, he typically does not attempt to make his poems "sound good" in some stylized, literary/theatrical manner (as Dylan Thomas does, to cite a poet whose sounds are gorgeous but not close to ordinary speech. ) Rather, Hughes attempts to make poetry out of common speech rhythms, oral folk forms, and so forth. Ditto Etheridge Knight, Sonia Sanchez, and many others who came along in Hughes's wake. Of course, I'm aware that there's no easy way to draw a thick line between "page" poems and "stage" poems; and many poets, from Shakespeare through Thomas, are brilliant at both aspects. Others, like Langston Hughes, suffer a bit (to my mind) on the page, but remain excellent poets. I couldn't fully appreciate poets like Hughes for a long while, myself; it took years of attending readings for me to realize that density on the page was not an absolute necessity for quality, and that, in fact, poets like Hughes or Knight offer something that, say, Marianne Moore just doesn't. There's a fascinating essay/talk by Knight on oral poetics available online, last I checked, at the *Painted Bride Quarterly* site: http://pbqarchive.rutgers.edu/archive_html/32-33.shtml His piece is titled "On the Oral Nature of Poetry." There's a PDF file for the entire issue, a tribute to Knight. Side-note: I think Robert Frost is a poet whose conception of poetry revolves around orality. Sentence sounds, the sound of sense: he's utterly oral in his aesthetic. He's not a page poet in the way, say, that Donne is. But (I may be in the minority here), I've never felt that Frost read himself aloud particularly well. People loved his patter and his persona, but in his actual reading of the poems he never did them justice. On Apr 5, 2006, at 3:49 PM, Chris Lott wrote: > And about those "elders lurking behind the list"-- you are talking > then about folks who give a good reading. Seems like yet another > almost wholly different thing-- a pretty insignificant link between > Sandburg/Hughes and even a great example of Poetry Slammer. Yeah, they > both are speaking out loud, but... > > c > ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 21:21:16 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:21:16 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] All-American Sestina In-Reply-To: <20060405223022.4BD942EC015@smapp01.siteprotect.com> References: <20060405223022.4BD942EC015@smapp01.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <648208b60604051821xb7203d3kaaed62dcf0b2b81e@mail.gmail.com> So is this two, or three degrees of separation? - Jim, Crack-of-Dawn talk show host On 4/5/06, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > > > In Sam Gwynn's poetry anthology -- well, one of them -- there's a poem > called "All-American Sestina" by Florence Cassen Mayers. A little googling > informs me that it's a widely anthologized poem. I'm pretty sure that this > is the Florence Cassen of my teenage years, one of two gorgeous sisters who > were around Woodstock but not quite a part of the group I generally hung out > with, so I only saw them occasionally, but I had wild secret crushes on both > of them. Then, a few years later, one of them turned up in the Iowa Workshop > -- but I seem to remember it was her sister, Lois. Could both of them have > been poets? Does this ring a bell with anyone? > > > > Tad > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > From chris.lott at gmail.com Wed Apr 5 21:49:23 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:49:23 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: More Spoken Word Revolution In-Reply-To: <01FD9DAB-4445-4AED-B7F4-B99921EAE04F@ripon.edu> References: <9b1b9dab0604051026p317f69c2o812a97b1359d09a4@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0604051346q6f10c333kc8a17759c6dcb53f@mail.gmail.com> <9b1b9dab0604051349y1e72e5ffq3578bf6d013aca6e@mail.gmail.com> <01FD9DAB-4445-4AED-B7F4-B99921EAE04F@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604051849v58e3b802t6748618e663adc2@mail.gmail.com> I guess the distinction I am thinking of is between presentation of prepared material-- acting, essentially-- and slam poetry, which is much more spontaneous, sometimes actually improvised. The elders you list were all putting on performances of materials that they had scripted well beforehand. I admire that, but it still seems like essentially different stuff where it counts to me, which is in the stuff of the poems themselves rather than how well they are presented or-- worse-- adopting a scale along the lines of "considering that they only had x minutes to compose". Sometimes a great poem is composed quickly and off the cuff, but I suspect more often better results come from somewhats significant time spent in composition. The elders spent that time, didn't they? The slam poets do not (or else they aren't slam poets are they? I mean, isn't that what slam poetry is all about? Thus the gradations I alluded to earlier), throwing down in hip-hop/rap typically uses a mix of stuff thought out in advance and much that is improvised. Sherman Alexie's World Championship poem I listened to a while back was pretty good for what it was (that scale thing again), but pretty anemic compared to just about any random poem from any of his books. In some way I'm less interested in folks who put on a good performance than I am poems that don't need such a performance supporting them. I admire a good reading, but it's the poem that counts. Slam poetry (that I have seen so far-- I have many things on my list courtesy of this thread) has some entertaining and emotional performances, but on the page it's lifeless. Like most lyrics. In a way it reminds me of those 24 hour or 30 day novel writing contests. We know it generally takes a while to write a good novel. Do we really expect better art when we compress the timeframe? Slam poetry and its limitations on compositional time and contemplation seems more therapeutic than being a recipe for good art. But there are myriad ways to compose poety for oral performance... c From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 5 23:08:19 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:08:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] No-Word Poem Message-ID: No-Word Poem _________________ Discussion questions: A. 1. 4:33 ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 6 03:54:16 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:54:16 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><000a01c658a9$e89230d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><006f01c658f0$582fc9c0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <00d101c658f7$5c5aaa90$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <009001c6594f$4dbc6ac0$64ec3652@ANNY> Hi Bob, do you usually walk to your blog? After almost 12 hours you haven't got there, yet. From: "Bob Grumman" Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:24 PM >I was wrong: the one-word poem was not a one-word poem but an elaborate >joke. I'm going to my blog now to give my opinion of it. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 6 03:56:27 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:56:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] No-Word Poem References: Message-ID: <009f01c6594f$9bcefd40$64ec3652@ANNY> Very good. unrepeatable or you could make a series out of it From: David Graham Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:08 AM No-Word Poem _________________ Discussion questions: A. 1. 4:33 ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 6 06:06:29 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:06:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><011b01c65851$0e4b02b0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><003001c6589a$ecdcf7b0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><000a01c658a9$e89230d0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><006f01c658f0$582fc9c0$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><00d101c658f7$5c5aaa90$47b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <009001c6594f$4dbc6ac0$64ec3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <000b01c65961$c6c4bdc0$2ab831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Try http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html I put it up hours before your post. But I don't say much about the Slavitt work yet. Today I'll say something of substance, I hope. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views" Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem > > Hi Bob, do you usually walk to your blog? After almost 12 hours you > haven't got there, yet. > > From: "Bob Grumman" > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:24 PM > > >>I was wrong: the one-word poem was not a one-word poem but an elaborate >>joke. I'm going to my blog now to give my opinion of it. >> >> --Bob G. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk Thu Apr 6 06:58:29 2006 From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:58:29 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toads, weasels, miniatures, lullabies Message-ID: <1144321109.4434f4558f076@webmail.ukonline.net> ... and the usual cornucopia, all at http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/ by Edmund Hardy, Melissa Flores, Laura Steele, Michael Peverett and others INTERCAPILLARY SPACE Collective Poetry Blogzine - some recent entries: POEM SEQUENCES Emily Critchley, I just want you to know that we can still be friends Rupert Loydell, Toad of Toad Hughes INTERVIEW With John Seed (on Pictures From Mayhew, Reznikoff, oral history, Ed Dorn, the ethics of form) REVIEWS Tatiana Voltskaia, Cicada Scott Thurston, Hold RESPONSES TO TEXTS On J.H. Prynne, Her Weasels Wild Returning On Helen Macdonald's "Taxonomy" On Herman Melville's Miniatures NOTES The Word "News" "In mynder herten" Beckett's Lullabies PLUS A Jean Baudrillard Crystal-Ocean Michael Peverett http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com http://michaelpeverett.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 6 07:32:59 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:32:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] No-Word Poem In-Reply-To: <009f01c6594f$9bcefd40$64ec3652@ANNY> References: <009f01c6594f$9bcefd40$64ec3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <90EA11DA-44C5-4DB4-9E17-08A569638A0A@earthlink.net> Promising, I'd call it. Hal "Music is continuous. Only listening is intermittent." --Henry David Thoreau Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 6, 2006, at 3:56 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Very good. > unrepeatable > > or > you could make a series out of it > > From: David Graham > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:08 AM > > > No-Word Poem > > > _________________ > Discussion questions: > > A. > 1. > 4:33 > > > > > ========================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 6 08:33:54 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:33:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Allan Kaprow 1927-2006 Message-ID: <004e01c65976$5e9f50b0$6ea93452@ANNY> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:50:17 +0200 From: Kamen Nedev Reply-To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" To: WRYTING-L at LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA Subject: Allan Kaprow, 1927-2006 Dear all, Allan Kaprow has passed away. Begin forwarded message: > From: Reid Wood > Date: 6 de abril de 2006 02:06:46 GMT+02:00 > To: FLUXLIST at scribble.com > Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re:Allan Kaprow > Reply-To: FLUXLIST at scribble.com > > Judith- > > Thanks for the information - sad news, as more and more of the > artists who I feel connected to are leaving us. > > Reid > > On Apr 5, 2006, at 7:44 PM, Judith wrote: > >> Allan Kaprow passed away early this afternoon at home with his >> family around >> him. >> He has been ill for about two years. A memorial for him will be >> planned >> later this year. >> He has influenced many, many people, not just artists, and his >> memory will >> be part of all >> our lives. We are diminished by his loss. >> >> Judith A. Hoffberg >> >> > > ------------------------------------ Kamen Nedev c/Pelayo N?38, 5? Izda. 28004 Madrid Espa?a (+34) 649 77 80 37 kamennedev at gmail.com http://emitmedia.blogspot.com http://emit.omweb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 6 11:22:55 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 17:22:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] dear pipes Message-ID: <003301c6598d$faef10b0$382ab750@ANNY> ... it is the novelist's business to set down exactly manners and appearances: he must render the show, he must, if the metaphor be permitted, describe precisely the nature of the engine, the position and relation of its wheels. The poet or the artist - and this is the distinction I can never get the prose stylist to recognize - the poet is a sort of steam-gauge, voltameter, a set of pipes for themometric and barometric divination. He is not even compelled to be logical. I mean logical with the sort of logic one expresses by a series of syllogisms. *** Ezra Pound Patria Mia selected prose 1909-1965 New Directions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 12:53:55 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:53:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Robert Crawford Message-ID: <731bb17a0604060953x12e1f18x60a7db3cb779107a@mail.gmail.com> I had the chance to see Robert Crawford read here at UGA yesterday. He's a great reader, someone who had a good delivery and a quick & sharp wit tempered with a self-depreciating sense of humor--that and the Scottish accent, of course. I was most impressed with him and purchased his Selected Poetry. Here's one that he read. The poem is actually printed this way, with the bold type face. Crawford approximated it with his tone and volume. Jeff Newberry CHAPS Robert Crawford With his Bible, his Burns, his brose and his baps, Colonel John Buchanan is one of the chaps, With his mother, his mowser, his mauser, his maps, Winston S. Churchill is one of the chaps. *CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS* *CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS* Rebecca Mphalele is one of the chaps, Ezekiel Ng is one of the chaps, Queenie Macfadzean is one of the chaps, Kayode Nimgoankar is one of the chaps. *CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS* *CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS* ** Oxfordy chaps, Cambridgey chaps, Glasgowy chaps, Harrovian chaps, Oxfordy chaps, Cambridgey chaps, Oxfordy chaps, Cambridgey chaps. CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS The sergeant's a chap, the rifle's a chap, The veldt is a chap, the heather's a chap, A great JCR of them tossing their caps Like schoolboys at Eton dyed red on the maps. CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS The porthole's a chap, the cannon's a chap, The haigs and the Slessors, the Parks are all chaps, Mungos and Maries, filling the gaps In the Empire's red line that can never collapse. CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS Lord Kitchener needs them to pose for his snaps Of Ypres and Verdun with chaps' heads in their laps Singing Gilbert and Sullivan or outlining traps To catch rowdies at Eights Week, next year perhaps. CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS The war memorial's a chap, the codebook's a chap, The wind is a chap, the horse is a chap, The knitters, the padres, the limbs are all chaps >From Harwick and Africa, poppies are chaps. CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS CHAPS from *Selected Poems*, Cape Poetry, 2005 -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpaul at mallasch.com Thu Apr 6 13:53:55 2006 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:53:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: you owe me a word poem Re: [New-Poetry] No-Word Poem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060406125331.O18531@kpaul.spinweb.net> poetic deficit. please pay me. -kpaul On Wed, 5 Apr 2006, David Graham wrote: > No-Word Poem > > > _________________ > Discussion questions: > > A. > 1. > 4:33 > > > > > ========================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > From Kazmandu at aol.com Fri Apr 7 01:04:23 2006 From: Kazmandu at aol.com (Kazmandu at aol.com) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 01:04:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Logic in poetry Message-ID: <2e8.52e0f5b.31674cd7@aol.com> In a message dated 4/6/2006 9:40:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: The poet or the artist - and this is the distinction I can never get the prose stylist to recognize - the poet is a sort of steam-gauge, voltameter, a set of pipes for themometric and barometric divination. He is not even compelled to be logical. I mean logical with the sort of logic one expresses by a series of syllogisms. Anny, Very true that the poet or the artist is not interested in being logical but what most artists and poets fail to realize is that nonsense or illogic is still logical ... a lack of logic is still defined by logic and paradox is the mathematical structure of metaphor. Cheers, Kaz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu Fri Apr 7 12:45:43 2006 From: Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu (Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:45:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 8 Message-ID: <881288629@sendmail2.brinkster.com> I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your message as soon as possible after I return. Virginia M. Heatter Editor-in-Chief The New Hampshire Review P.O. Box 322 Nashua, NH 03061-0322 www.newhampshirereview.com From Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sat Apr 8 12:45:53 2006 From: Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu (Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 12:45:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9 Message-ID: <881354170@sendmail2.brinkster.com> I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your message as soon as possible after I return. Virginia M. Heatter Editor-in-Chief The New Hampshire Review P.O. Box 322 Nashua, NH 03061-0322 www.newhampshirereview.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 9 07:35:28 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:35:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Charles Baudelaire's Fleurs du Mal Message-ID: <3c139cac9ef746b62185dd55da105c4c@www.fleursdumal.org> The sender thought you would enjoy "Charles Baudelaire's Fleurs du Mal" at FleursDuMal.org: http://fleursdumal.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 9 11:17:44 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:17:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Where Is You, Anny? References: <004e01c65976$5e9f50b0$6ea93452@ANNY> Message-ID: <008601c65be8$c0cfec30$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I e.mailed you and my e.mail got rejected, Anny. The e.mail was about your Poets' Corner, which I haven't been able to get to. I got to your blog okay, though. Anything weird going on? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 9 11:54:04 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:54:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Where Is You, Anny? References: <004e01c65976$5e9f50b0$6ea93452@ANNY> <008601c65be8$c0cfec30$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <014801c65bed$d3e2c9f0$bdaa3452@ANNY> Thank you Bob, and to all those who tried to contact me in these days, I have no idea what happened, I barely receive mails, which _is_ a problem, since I also work with the net. The Poets' Corner, or better the site Fieralingue was down today because there was the attempt of a virus to attack it, detected by the faithful Norton. The webmaster just sent me a mail (some do pass through) that it is on now. There should still be problems, I have another mail: anny.ballardini at gmail.com thank you and till soon, Anny From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:17 PM I e.mailed you and my e.mail got rejected, Anny. The e.mail was about your Poets' Corner, which I haven't been able to get to. I got to your blog okay, though. Anything weird going on? --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 9 11:55:34 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:55:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Where Is You, Anny? References: <004e01c65976$5e9f50b0$6ea93452@ANNY><008601c65be8$c0cfec30$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <014801c65bed$d3e2c9f0$bdaa3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <001d01c65bee$09db2a20$a8b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Good luck. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Where Is You, Anny? Thank you Bob, and to all those who tried to contact me in these days, I have no idea what happened, I barely receive mails, which _is_ a problem, since I also work with the net. The Poets' Corner, or better the site Fieralingue was down today because there was the attempt of a virus to attack it, detected by the faithful Norton. The webmaster just sent me a mail (some do pass through) that it is on now. There should still be problems, I have another mail: anny.ballardini at gmail.com thank you and till soon, Anny From: Bob Grumman Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:17 PM I e.mailed you and my e.mail got rejected, Anny. The e.mail was about your Poets' Corner, which I haven't been able to get to. I got to your blog okay, though. Anything weird going on? --Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sun Apr 9 12:46:04 2006 From: Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu (Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 12:46:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10 Message-ID: <881419714@sendmail2.brinkster.com> I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your message as soon as possible after I return. Virginia M. Heatter Editor-in-Chief The New Hampshire Review P.O. Box 322 Nashua, NH 03061-0322 www.newhampshirereview.com From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 9 15:07:40 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:07:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <881419714@sendmail2.brinkster.com> References: <881419714@sendmail2.brinkster.com> Message-ID: <17F409F2-286B-4A62-9DA2-DF985A2007B0@earthlink.net> We've got the picture, damn you. Just let us know when you're back. No reply needed. Hal "I'm not afraid of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens." --Woody Allen Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 9, 2006, at 12:46 PM, Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu, New Hampshire Review wrote: > I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your > message as soon as possible after I return. > > Virginia M. Heatter > Editor-in-Chief > The New Hampshire Review > P.O. Box 322 > Nashua, NH 03061-0322 > www.newhampshirereview.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tad at opus40.org Sun Apr 9 15:22:52 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:22:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10 References: <881419714@sendmail2.brinkster.com> <17F409F2-286B-4A62-9DA2-DF985A2007B0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00a701c65c0a$ff494ca0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I am at my desk, but I have no intention of responding to anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Halvard Johnson" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10 > We've got the picture, damn you. Just let us know when you're > back. No reply needed. > > Hal > > "I'm not afraid of dying. I just don't want > to be there when it happens." > --Woody Allen > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 12:46 PM, Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu, New Hampshire Review > wrote: > >> I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your message >> as soon as possible after I return. >> >> Virginia M. Heatter >> Editor-in-Chief >> The New Hampshire Review >> P.O. Box 322 >> Nashua, NH 03061-0322 >> www.newhampshirereview.com >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 9 15:31:41 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:31:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10 References: <881419714@sendmail2.brinkster.com><17F409F2-286B-4A62-9DA2-DF985A2007B0@earthlink.net> <00a701c65c0a$ff494ca0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <003901c65c0c$3aee0c40$bdaa3452@ANNY> ... I love it! From: "TheOldMole" Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:22 PM >I am at my desk, but I have no intention of responding to anything. > From William_Knott at emerson.edu Sun Apr 9 15:42:42 2006 From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:42:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog References: <200511211700.jALH03M1026660@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529D03@mail.emerson.edu> I've started a blog, so those folks who loved to call my posts here "stupid" and "silly" can now do it there. . . the url or the http or whatever is: billknott.typepad.com ...it's new, so there's not much to vituperate as yet. . . regards from Bill Knott -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2504 bytes Desc: not available URL: From LauraHeidy at aol.com Sun Apr 9 15:59:02 2006 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:59:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs Message-ID: <268.91de8e4.316ac186@aol.com> Just out of curiosity, there's been a lot of talk on some of the blogs I follow about the perils of posting your own unpublished poetry on your own blog site. Most people, myself included, seem to think that somehow it will eventually turn around and bite you in the ass. So many submission guidelines plainly state "does not accept previously published material - this includes internet sites" and many seem to feel that includes blog posted poems as well as actual internet poetry publications. Personally, I'm unsure and unable to find a definitive answer anywhere. To be on the safe side, if I post a rough draft of a poem, I state it's a rough draft and then I very carefully take it down again after 24 hours. If anyone here has any opinions, facts, raves or rants on the subject, I'd sure be glad to hear them Lo _Terminal Chaosity_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/) http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 9 16:15:59 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:15:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs References: <268.91de8e4.316ac186@aol.com> Message-ID: <005e01c65c12$6b95bd60$bdaa3452@ANNY> Hi Laura, I very sillily consider my blog a private space. Maybe a way out when there is the tag: previously published material is not accepted_ could be to take off your work from your blog. Objectively I can see from my Site Meter who visits, it is the usual big family that tours round and whom I respect, and thank you also for your visits. There are some other unidentified visitors, if an editor is able to memorize your entire blog and then tell you that _that specific poem_ had already been published "on your blog" --- well, at that point I am willing to write an entire unpublished book for this person! Take care, Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: LauraHeidy at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs Just out of curiosity, there's been a lot of talk on some of the blogs I follow about the perils of posting your own unpublished poetry on your own blog site. Most people, myself included, seem to think that somehow it will eventually turn around and bite you in the ass. So many submission guidelines plainly state "does not accept previously published material - this includes internet sites" and many seem to feel that includes blog posted poems as well as actual internet poetry publications. Personally, I'm unsure and unable to find a definitive answer anywhere. To be on the safe side, if I post a rough draft of a poem, I state it's a rough draft and then I very carefully take it down again after 24 hours. If anyone here has any opinions, facts, raves or rants on the subject, I'd sure be glad to hear them Lo Terminal Chaosity http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 9 16:32:51 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:32:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog In-Reply-To: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529D03@mail.emerson.edu> References: <200511211700.jALH03M1026660@wiz.cath.vt.edu> <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529D03@mail.emerson.edu> Message-ID: <3ED51D35-E7C6-456B-BAE7-6AC4F9C49104@earthlink.net> Good luck with your silly, stupid blog, Bill. There's always room for one more. Hal "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." --Noam Chomsky Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 9, 2006, at 3:42 PM, William Knott wrote: > > I've started a blog, so those folks who loved > to call my posts here "stupid" and "silly" can > now do it there. . . > > the url or the http or whatever is: > billknott.typepad.com > > ...it's new, so there's not much to vituperate > as yet. . . > > regards from Bill Knott > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 9 16:38:01 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:38:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog References: <200511211700.jALH03M1026660@wiz.cath.vt.edu><926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529D03@mail.emerson.edu> <3ED51D35-E7C6-456B-BAE7-6AC4F9C49104@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008a01c65c15$7f023ec0$bdaa3452@ANNY> Why don't you try some other color instead of brown? Welcome to the blogland, Bill! From: "Halvard Johnson" Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:32 PM > Good luck with your silly, stupid blog, Bill. > There's always room for one more. > > Hal > > "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." > --Noam Chomsky > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 3:42 PM, William Knott wrote: > >> >> I've started a blog, so those folks who loved >> to call my posts here "stupid" and "silly" can >> now do it there. . . >> >> the url or the http or whatever is: >> billknott.typepad.com >> >> ...it's new, so there's not much to vituperate >> as yet. . . >> >> regards from Bill Knott >> >> >> From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 9 16:41:59 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:41:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs In-Reply-To: <268.91de8e4.316ac186@aol.com> References: <268.91de8e4.316ac186@aol.com> Message-ID: <42521403-6208-4C62-849E-8EA18FA39455@earthlink.net> I say, "Let it bite." "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 9, 2006, at 3:59 PM, LauraHeidy at aol.com wrote: > Just out of curiosity, there's been a lot of talk on some of the > blogs I follow about the perils of posting your own unpublished > poetry on your own blog site. Most people, myself included, seem > to think that somehow it will eventually turn around and bite you > in the ass. So many submission guidelines plainly state "does not > accept previously published material - this includes internet > sites" and many seem to feel that includes blog posted poems as > well as actual internet poetry publications. > > Personally, I'm unsure and unable to find a definitive answer > anywhere. To be on the safe side, if I post a rough draft of a > poem, I state it's a rough draft and then I very carefully take it > down again after 24 hours. > > If anyone here has any opinions, facts, raves or rants on the > subject, I'd sure be glad to hear them > > Lo > Terminal Chaosity > http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 9 17:15:26 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:15:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs References: <268.91de8e4.316ac186@aol.com> <42521403-6208-4C62-849E-8EA18FA39455@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007301c65c1a$b958d6b0$a8b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I say, "Let it bite." I agree. There are a huge number of publications that will take material that's been on the Internet. Aside from that, and more important, I think, Internet publication is as good as paper publication now, except for the retrograde, and it will soon be, even for them. My own policy now is to publish just about everything I do at my blog, and let it be republished by just about anybody who asks my persmission (or doesn't). --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Apr 9 18:21:57 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:21:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs References: <268.91de8e4.316ac186@aol.com> Message-ID: <015001c65c24$03d55b10$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I don't post poems on my blog, kinda for that reason. My ass gets bitten quite enough as it is. Except sometimes some fun stuff that's never going to get published anywhere anyway. Like the one I've just posted there. ----- Original Message ----- From: LauraHeidy at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs Just out of curiosity, there's been a lot of talk on some of the blogs I follow about the perils of posting your own unpublished poetry on your own blog site. Most people, myself included, seem to think that somehow it will eventually turn around and bite you in the ass. So many submission guidelines plainly state "does not accept previously published material - this includes internet sites" and many seem to feel that includes blog posted poems as well as actual internet poetry publications. Personally, I'm unsure and unable to find a definitive answer anywhere. To be on the safe side, if I post a rough draft of a poem, I state it's a rough draft and then I very carefully take it down again after 24 hours. If anyone here has any opinions, facts, raves or rants on the subject, I'd sure be glad to hear them Lo Terminal Chaosity http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 9 19:54:40 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:54:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Posting Poems on Personal Blogs Message-ID: <2ae.1adab90.316af8c0@aol.com> In a message dated 4/9/2006 4:42:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: I say, "Let it bite." I agree with Hal...if a print journal is that narrow about previous publication, I say the onus is on them to find your poem in blogland and reject it. (Which is unlikely.) I can understand, somewhat, editorial guidelines that would forbid the poem's previous appearance in an e-zine or webmag, because many print journals straddle the virtual and physical world, or those that are strictly printed matter probably have plans for a website version. That bring up an interesting question: In another half decade, will any journal worth its salt not have at least some of its content on the web? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 9 20:08:38 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:08:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog Message-ID: <374.167ad02.316afc06@aol.com> In a message dated 4/9/2006 4:38:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: Why don't you try some other color instead of brown? Welcome to the blogland, Bill! I've got a brownish blog too. As soon as I learn more HTML I'll give some other colors & formats a try. Mine is mostly quotes and aphoristic commentary...an e-commonplace book (URL below), so to speak. I admire those who can post daily...it's real commitment that must be fitted into the many others one's taken on. As neophyte to blogland, let me ask this: I see blogs that list other blogs and I wonder is this a matter of offering to trade links? Or do bloggers just list blogs they favor? Finnegan _http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com_ (http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com/) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 9 20:38:43 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:38:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog In-Reply-To: <374.167ad02.316afc06@aol.com> References: <374.167ad02.316afc06@aol.com> Message-ID: > As neophyte to blogland, let me ask this: I see blogs that > list other blogs and I wonder is this a matter of offering to > trade links? Or do bloggers just list blogs they favor? > Finnegan My experience says, "Both." Hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 9 21:23:39 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:23:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog References: <374.167ad02.316afc06@aol.com> Message-ID: <00b701c65c3d$66719cc0$a8b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> As neophyte to blogland, let me ask this: I see blogs that list other blogs and I wonder is this a matter of offering to trade links? Or do bloggers just list blogs they favor? Finnegan My experience says, "Both." Hate to agree with Halvard twice in one day, but he's right. More or less. I think a lot of bloggers do trade links--but discriminatingly. Most of them will provide links to other blogs they think relevant, as well--I don't list links to other blogs (yet--I want to, but have been too lazy to get around to it), but most blogs dealing with the kind of poetry mine does, have links to mine. I do notice that some bloggers provide links to every other blog they can--I suspect because they hope to get those blogs to link to theirs. When I finally get around to providing links, whether a blog has a link to mine won't be a factor. I might add that I often provide links to blogs inside my entries, when I'm discussing someone else's blog, which happens fairly often. I will probably provide links to blogs or websites I, uh, Sorry, just remembered that saying one has a low opinion of something bothers people here, so scratch the last remark. I'll just say that I'll probably have more than one set of links to blogs, one of which will be to the ones I consider most important for my kind of poetry. Hal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 10 01:16:51 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:16:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: my new blog References: <374.167ad02.316afc06@aol.com> Message-ID: <004401c65c5d$f9aee360$39ab3852@ANNY> It is not brown, a quite mild color. Hal and Bob are right re.: links, the usual cake, it tastes good even if you do not know what is inside. It is a commitment, as you say. Sometimes worth it. That I often elude with pictures. Don't tell anybody, From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:08 AM In a message dated 4/9/2006 4:38:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: Why don't you try some other color instead of brown? Welcome to the blogland, Bill! I've got a brownish blog too. As soon as I learn more HTML I'll give some other colors & formats a try. Mine is mostly quotes and aphoristic commentary...an e-commonplace book (URL below), so to speak. I admire those who can post daily...it's real commitment that must be fitted into the many others one's taken on. As neophyte to blogland, let me ask this: I see blogs that list other blogs and I wonder is this a matter of offering to trade links? Or do bloggers just list blogs they favor? Finnegan http://www.ursprache.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Apr 10 09:22:44 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20060410132244.46172.qmail@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Redell Olsen and Drew Milne The place of English Allan Kaprow A marriage poem (my own) 20 years later Zach Barocas ???exactitude/like purity???? The new globalism ??? Mohawk / Samoa Transmigrations On Earth, the last poems of Robert Creeley Lisa Jarnot and Homer Iliad XXII as a political act Stanislaw Lem Watten on Braxton Selah Saterstrom and the Pink Institution - As I Lay Dying as told by Dodie Bellamy Betye, Lezley and Alison Saar 2 generations of African-American art Ian Hamilton Finlay The reversal of text and illustration in the work of Derek Fenner Some links to Anthony Braxton The jumble of unassimilated parts that is Sally Potter???s Yes Dmitri Prigov - What happens to conceptual poetics when reality is what changes? Hustle and Flow and the nature of an actor???s film Erica Carpenter ??? Perspective Would Have Us http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 10 09:56:12 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:56:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Canada's Griffin Prize Nominees Message-ID: <6b.58691ca4.316bbdfc@aol.com> _http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2006/04/05/griffin-poetry-shortlist.htm l_ (http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2006/04/05/griffin-poetry-shortlist.html) Canadians are: Toronto-based poet and instructor Phil Hall for An Oak Hunch. Saskatoon-based poet Sylvia Legris for Nerve Squall. Governor General Award-winning Montreal poet Erin Moure for Little Theatres. The International nominees are: Barbadian poet and university professor Kamau Brathwaite for Born to Slow Horses. German poet Durs Grunbein and London-based writer Michael Hofmann (translator) for Ashes for Breakfast: Selected Poems. U.S. poet Michael Palmer for Company of Moths. Iraqi-born poet Dunya Mikhail and U.S. writer Elizabeth Winslow (translator) for The War Works Hard. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 10 10:02:02 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:02:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mark Haddon, tree poem Message-ID: <276.800e057.316bbf5a@aol.com> _http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/poemaday/_ (http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/poemaday/) That Mark Haddon?s first book after The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time is a book of poetry may surprise his many fans; that it is an an impressive and imaginative collection will not. The Talking Horse and the Sad Girl and the Village Under the Sea will be in stores tomorrow, but you can read one poem from the book below. And be sure to tune into today's episode of the Knopf Poetry Podcast to hear Haddon read by phone from his home London. Trees They stand in parks and graveyards and gardens. Some of them are taller than department stores, yet they do not draw attention to themselves. You will be fitting a heated towel rail one day and see, through the louvre window, a shoal of olive-green fish changing direction in the air that swims above the little gardens. Or you will wake at your aunt's cottage, your sleep broken by a coal train on the empty hill as the oaks roar in the wind off the channel. Your kindness to animals, your skill at the clarinet, these are accidental things. We lost this game a long way back. Look at you. You're reading poetry. Outside the spring air is thick with the seeds of their children. TODAY'S PODCAST: Listen to a recording of Mark Haddon reading "The River-Car" KEEP CLICKING: About THE TALKING HORSE AND THE SAD GIRL AND THE VILLAGE UNDER THE SEA Meet Mark Haddon Discuss today's poem in the Knopf Poetry Forum If you missed poetry and podcasts we've already mailed, please visit www.knopfpoetry.com/poemaday -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 10 10:37:08 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:37:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Present Situation of the Grolier Poetry Book Shop, Inc. Message-ID: <30e.26d907b.316bc794@aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: GrolierPoetry at cs.com Subject: The Present Situation of the Grolier Poetry Book Shop, Inc. Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:44:17 EST Size: 2458 URL: From Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu Mon Apr 10 10:42:55 2006 From: Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu (Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:42:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 11 Message-ID: <881481051@sendmail2.brinkster.com> I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your message as soon as possible after I return. Virginia M. Heatter Editor-in-Chief The New Hampshire Review P.O. Box 322 Nashua, NH 03061-0322 www.newhampshirereview.com From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 10 10:58:38 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:58:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Marcus News and Other Cr*pola References: Message-ID: <010901c65caf$4084e040$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Consider, however, the example of Wordsworth. If a counter-example can be posted unnegatively. --Bob G. How much of the Wordsworth corpus, swollen and bloated as it is in some the extremeties, was published during his lifetime? I don't know the answer... Bob, you know and I know the difference between negative and nasty. The former is list permitted but not the latter. Finnegan I'm catching up on e.mail, and found this. Actually, I don't know when negative becomes nasty. You got me for merely saying I had a poor (okay, "low") opinion of someone. I'll never see that as nasty. I've also been chided a good deal for "always" making negative comments about poems, poets, etc. But I do think I know what New-Poetry perceives as nasty, and I think I can avoid that. I'll avoid negativity as much as possible, too--and try my best not to make any more stupid sarcasms about how I'm avoiding it. Meanwhile, I thought the group might be amused to know that the big visual poetry exhibition that Marcus set up in Cleveland has actually come off. The opening was April Fools' Day. I never had any good cause to think Marcus was pulling something, but still thought he might up till the very end. But he has turned out to be an excellent friend to Visual Poetry, at least this once. In spite of all his arguing against it--and the nasty things I said about him (and he about me, although he'll never admit it). There's a lesson here somewhere. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Mon Apr 10 12:00:09 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:00:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Present Situation of the Grolier Poetry Book Shop, Inc. In-Reply-To: <30e.26d907b.316bc794@aol.com> References: <30e.26d907b.316bc794@aol.com> Message-ID: Ifeanyi Menkiti, a professor of philosophy at Wellesley College is taking the helm. >From Publisher's Weekly ( http://www.publishersweekly.com/PWdaily/CA6320035.html) Grolier BookShop Sold by Judith Rosen For the second time in eight decades Grolier Poetry Book Shop in Harvard Square Cambridge, Mass., the oldest poetry bookstore in the country, is about to change hands. Ill health forced Louisa Solano, who has owned the store for 31 years, to sell the Cambridge landmark, which has long had a national reputation that extends well beyond its 404 sq. ft. borders. When Grolier first opened in 1927, it was a favorite of e.e. cummings, T.S. Eliot and Marianne Moore. During Solano's tenure it has been a frequent haunt of poets ranging from Donald Hall to David Ferry and Adrienne Rich. The sale to Ifeanyi Menkiti, a professor of philosophy at Wellesley College whose most recent collection of poetry, *Of Altair, the Bright Light*(Earthwinds Editions), was published last year, will be finalized on Friday. "This store has meant a lot to so many of us. It's a wonderful institution," Menkiti said. "I wanted to make sure it continued." Menkiti, who views himself as more of a "facilitator" than owner, plans to keep the Grolier name and to continue the store's reading series. He would also like Solano to stay connected with the store in whatever capacity she chooses. The only change the Nigerian-born poet anticipates is that under his stewardship Grolier will stock more poetry from around the world, especially Africa. And Menkiti is already looking for ways to mark the fortieth anniversary of the death of poet Christopher Okigbo, who died during the Nigerian civil war in 1967. As for Solano, she said, "I'm going to catch up on thirty years of sleep." On 4/10/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: GrolierPoetry at cs.com > To: jnagy at fas.harvard.edu > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:44:17 EST > Subject: The Present Situation of the Grolier Poetry Book Shop, Inc. > As many of you know, the lease of the Grolier Poetry Book Shop, Inc. ends > on > March 31st. Harvard Real Estate offered me a very generous subsidy on the > rent and a two-year lease with an option to renew. Unfortunately, the > amount was > beyond my means. HRE suggested that I sell the lease when I found a > buyer. > The buyer has > been found, accepted the terms, and is now the owner. As he is out of > town > at the moment, I have agreed to maintain the shop until whatever date in > March > is decided > upon. > > The decision to sell is not one I would have chosen except for the fact > that > after an > approximate time of four months in the last twelve, I had enforced > absences > because > of my health. This is no way to run a store: it creates the idea that the > business is closed or that the owner has small interest in the customer. > Rather > than allow this > to happen, I finally realized that my stewardship of the Grolier had come > to > a natural > end. After fifty-one years of involvement (my ownership being > thirty-one), I > have relinquished it. There are many people who have earned my gratitude: > Gordon and Anna Cairnie, Jacqueline Springwater (who introduced me to the > Grolier); Arthur Freeman who facilitated my ownership; Mr. Charles Merrill > (whose > kindness served always as a source of encouragement); Adrienne Rich, Elsa > Dorfman, Cynthia McLachlan, Jane Alper, Mary Campbell, Cola Franzen, > Caroline Knox, > Jeanne Henle, John Hildebidle, Stephen Tapscott, Michael Casey, David > Ferry, > Allen Grossman, Donald Hall, the Masters of Adams House and the poets and > poetry reading public who worldwide encouraged the growth of the shop. I > shall > miss the conversations, the spontaneity, the work and the fun of owning > the > Grolier Poetry Book Shop, Inc. Thank you for the privilege of serving you > over > the past thirty-one years. As ever, Louisa > > THE GROLIER READING SERIES, THE GROLIER POETRY PRIZE, and the developing > scholarship fund will continue but under the name of the Ellen > La Forge Memorial Poetry Foundation. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style." --Quentin Crisp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Mon Apr 10 12:09:00 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:09:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Present Situation of the Grolier Poetry Message-ID: <20060410160900.F01B913CEA@smapp03.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu Mon Apr 10 12:46:16 2006 From: Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu (Editor at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:46:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 22, Issue 12 Message-ID: <881485256@sendmail2.brinkster.com> I will be away until Monday, April 10th. I will respond to your message as soon as possible after I return. Virginia M. Heatter Editor-in-Chief The New Hampshire Review P.O. Box 322 Nashua, NH 03061-0322 www.newhampshirereview.com From anne.keefe at gmail.com Mon Apr 10 14:19:12 2006 From: anne.keefe at gmail.com (Anne Keefe) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:19:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Women, Poetry and Politics: A Conference in Honor of Alicia Suskin Ostriker References: <6b.58691ca4.316bbdfc@aol.com> Message-ID: <013401c65ccb$84372200$0a01a8c0@DELL> Please join us for a conference on "Women, Poetry and Politics" on Friday April 28, bringing together award winning poets, from Rutgers and beyond (including poet Daisy Fried, 2006 Guggenheim fellowship winner), and former students and colleagues of Professor Alicia Ostriker. Women, Poetry and Politics: A Conference in Honor of Alicia Suskin Ostriker Friday, April 28, 2006 Zimmerli Art Museum Rutgers University All events below are free and open to the public: 10-11:45 a.m. Panel I: Writing Like a Woman Harriet Davidson: Introduction and moderator --Toi Derricotte (poet): Writing Like an (Old?) (Mature?) (Wise?) Woman --Anne Herzog (University of Westchester): "Art [in]divisible from dirt": Mapping the Lines between Soul and Landscape in Mary Oliver's Poetry --Cheryl Clarke (poet, Rutgers University): Writing Like A Black Woman --Martha Nell Smith (University of Maryland): "The Imperative of Intimacy": A Rumination Beginning with a Phrase by Ostriker 1-2:45 p.m. Panel II: Stealing the Language Abena Busia: Introduction and moderator --Jan Heller Levi (poet): Writing Like A Woman, After Alicia Ostriker --Eleanor Wilner (poet) : "Ladre di linguaggi": Thieves of language in the feminine case; an international conference on the revision and subversion of Greek myth in literature by women --Sara Warner (Cornell University): Feminist Revision and Mythology --Marianne DeKoven (Rutgers University): The Consequences of Language Theft: Stealing the Language Twenty Years Later 3-4:45 Panel III: Dancing at the Devil's Party Evie Shockley: Introduction and moderator --Marilyn Hacker (poet): A Poetry Reading --Kathy Crown (Princeton University): Ecstasy: A Poet's Casebook --Daisy Fried (poet) : "Do they hate me": What to Love in American Political Poetry." --Anthony Lioi (MIT): Dance Mix for the Devil's Party: Heretical Unions in Feminist Theory and Practice 5:15 -6:30 Keynote address: Introduction: Martha Nell Smith Alicia Suskin Ostriker: Women and Poetry: What's Politics Got to Do With It? 6:30-7:30 Reception http://english.rutgers.edu/conferences/ostriker/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Mon Apr 10 16:22:02 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:22:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: The Present Situation of the Grolier Poetry In-Reply-To: <20060410160900.F01B913CEA@smapp03.siteprotect.com> References: <20060410160900.F01B913CEA@smapp03.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: On 4/10/06, opus40-01 at opus40.org wrote: > > At least it's not Donald Trump. > Or Starbucks. Hey, I'm just glad that it will finally be open again. Its been open by appointment only for a very, very long time. Its been ages since I have been there. I'll have to drop by sometime to see if it has new hours. --Suzanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 10 20:36:11 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:36:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Own It Message-ID: <317.27de9c6.316c53fb@aol.com> How to Own a Poem By DAVID LEHMAN April 7, 2006; Page W17, Wall Street Journal Poetry is not a mass-market art, though many people can recall a poem that inspired them at some point. But they probably can't remember precisely how it goes. A couple of generations ago, most people could recite word-for-word more than one poem because learning poetry by heart was a routine task of English classes. Something has been lost since -- but it can be found again and soon may be. Every year during National Poetry Month I am asked how I manage to teach poetry, given the variety of its forms these days and its growing public exposure. (The emergence of Billy Collins as the most popular serious poet since Robert Frost has helped to raise poetry's profile and has quickened the pulse of versifying optimists.) There are in fact many ways to teach poetry. Possibly the best method is the most old-fashioned one: learning by rote. It may seem counterintuitive in the age of Google, but if the goal is to convey the pleasures of poetry, it's hard to do better than to memorize great poems and recite them aloud for the edification of others. That is the rationale for the recitation contest that the National Endowment for the Arts is launching in conjunction with the Chicago-based Poetry Foundation, recipient of a recent multi-million dollar legacy from pharmaceutical heiress Ruth Lilly. The project is called Poetry Out Loud, and it will fund contests, on the model of spelling bees, in high schools in all 50 states, culminating in a national championship round in Washington, D.C. It's a winning idea. The spirit of competition can stimulate intellectual no less than athletic excellence. And the contestants will surely end up learning more than the three poems they are required to memorize. In addition to performing their own poems, they will get to hear everyone else's. The budget for the contest includes a boon for poets and their publishers. Of the $100,000 in prize money, some will go to high-school libraries specifically earmarked for the purchase of poetry books. Each year when I teach "Great Poems" to honors undergraduates at New York University, I prepare myself for ritual groans of protest the first time I assign the memorization of a poem. I know, however, that the students, even the ones afflicted with stage fright, will ultimately enjoy the process and revel in the moment of recitation. And they will almost certainly learn more about a Shakespeare sonnet or an Emily Dickinson enigma by committing it to memory than by writing a paper analyzing the structure of the former or the characteristic use of dashes in the latter. The memorization of one poem each week, with the recitation of that poem by two or three random students in the class, has a value beyond the pedagogic. One of my NYU students memorized Emma Lazarus's sonnet "The New Colossus" and then viewed the Statue of Liberty with Lazarus's famous peroration ringing in her ears. She told me she felt that she now "owned" the poem. She picked her verb advisedly. There is no surer way to possess a poem or a piece of oratory than to learn it by heart and to be able to recite it with a full consciousness of what the words mean and what their effect has been and might be. Some poems divulge their full magic only or mainly when read aloud, and these naturally make great candidates for memorization. One such is Edgar Allan Poe's "To One in Paradise." Consider the last stanza of this 24-line poem: "And all my days are trances, / And all my nightly dreams / Are where thy grey eye glances, / And where thy footstep gleams -- / In what ethereal dances, / By what eternal streams." The charm of these lines lies in their music, which transports the reader into something resembling a trance. Speak the words aloud and you'll see. Where Poe is emphatically musical, Stephen Crane is a poet of dark parables in plain speech. But his poems lend themselves equally well to the exigencies of memorization and recitation. "In the Desert" will haunt your dreaming nights: "In the desert / I saw a creature, naked, bestial, / Who, squatting upon the ground, / Held his heart in his hands, / And ate of it. / I said: 'Is it good, friend?' / 'It is bitter - bitter,' he answered; / 'But I like it / Because it is bitter, / And because it is my heart.'" Some poems from an earlier era stick in the mind because they seem part of American cultural history: Longfellow's "Paul Revere's Ride," for example, and Ernest Lawrence Thayer's tribute to the national pastime, "Casey at the Bat." There are poems to memorize for public occasions: A bride will find the perfect nuptial verses in one of our oldest poems, Anne Bradstreet's "To My Dear and Loving Husband." T.S. Eliot said it was possible to enjoy a poem before comprehending it. I would say that it is not only possible but likely, and not just because some poems are complex in thought and intricate in design but because the experience of art precedes and outlasts the meaning we assign to it. When we listen to the lyric of a great jazz standard, like Irving Caesar's words for "Tea for Two," we don't analyze what we're hearing. We commit it to memory along with the music. Memorization is a way of reading that gives poetry music and puts the pursuit of a poem's meaning on hold. You are so occupied with the task at hand -- "performing" the poem -- that the sense sinks in when you are not aware of it. Try this with a piece of verse that seems difficult, like Wallace Stevens's "The Emperor of Ice Cream." Memorize it one line at a time. Say it to yourself. Repeat the exercise until you have all 16 lines. Now say them aloud, slowly and with conviction: "Let be be finale of seem. / The only emperor is the emperor of ice cream." Much of the pleasure of Stevens's poetry, deep as it is, rests on the ravishing surface. Let the meaning of the poem catch up with you later. For now, enjoy the heavy alliteration ("In kitchen cups concupiscent curds") and the naughty irreverence in the face of funereal facts: "If her horny feet protrude, they come / To show how cold she is, and dumb." If memorization is a craft involving reading and repeating, recitation is more nearly an art. Have you ever heard students, even advanced ones, read poems aloud? If you have, you know that many slip into a cheesy singsong pattern. Even talented young writers recite their own poems too fast, or apologetically, or with too many distracting gestures, or tentatively, as if they had not previously set eyes on the text. Recitation requires conviction, and this is not just true for poetry. We weren't there to hear Lincoln read the Gettysburg Address, but the meaning behind this great piece of oratory resonates whenever one of us recites those immortal words aloud. At a time when we can no longer take it for granted that students have read and thought about even a document of the importance of the Gettysburg Address or a poem as moving as Frost's "Birches," surely it makes sense to revive the old practice of learning by heart the words we live by. Mr. Lehman is the editor of "The Oxford Book of American Poetry," the series editor of "The Best American Poetry" and the author of "When a Woman Loves a Man." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 10 21:14:24 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:14:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] schmidt's stanza lecture Message-ID: <394.3da5b.316c5cf0@aol.com> _http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/standrews/stanza/lecture06.htm_ (http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/standrews/stanza/lecture06.htm) Poetry?s mere cheerleaders do the art more harm than good. They are in a way the real censors because they discourage engagement, shrouding the poem in good will. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Mon Apr 10 21:51:50 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:51:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hirsch's help with poetry Message-ID: <1f3.1dd7154d.316c65b6@aol.com> _http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5331955_ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5331955) "I'd say people do need some help with poetry because I think poetry just helps takes us to places that Americans aren't always accustomed to going," Hirsch says. For those of us who need that help, Hirsch also cites the late William Matthews on "the four subjects of poetry," which are: "1. I went out into the woods today, and it made me feel, you know, sort of religious. 2. We're not getting any younger. 3. It sure is cold and lonely (a) without you, honey, or (b) with you, honey. 4. Sadness seems but the other side of the coin of happiness, and vice versa, and in any case the coin is too soon spent, and on what we know not what." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 11 07:38:58 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:38:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hirsch's help with poetry References: <1f3.1dd7154d.316c65b6@aol.com> Message-ID: <00e001c65d5c$85afe770$b92bb750@ANNY> Yes, I listened to it when it was first broadcast, he seems more lively alive than in those few points listed here below. Sure quotations, still depicted by him. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com Subject: [New-Poetry] Hirsch's help with poetry http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5331955 "I'd say people do need some help with poetry because I think poetry just helps takes us to places that Americans aren't always accustomed to going," Hirsch says. For those of us who need that help, Hirsch also cites the late William Matthews on "the four subjects of poetry," which are: "1. I went out into the woods today, and it made me feel, you know, sort of religious. 2. We're not getting any younger. 3. It sure is cold and lonely (a) without you, honey, or (b) with you, honey. 4. Sadness seems but the other side of the coin of happiness, and vice versa, and in any case the coin is too soon spent, and on what we know not what." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 11 10:52:19 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:52:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Now Culture Message-ID: <33a.2245059.316d1ca3@aol.com> Subject: Now Culture--Call for Submissions Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:32:19 -0500 From: "Justin Lacour" <_jblacour at hotmail.com_ (mailto:jblacour at hotmail.com) > Now Culture is a new poetry magazine with both a printed and online presence. The first two editions were in print, and the third edition is (mostly) available online, at _http://nowculture.com_ (http://nowculture.com) , and will soon be available in print as well. Go to _http://nowculture.com/nc3/guidelines.htm_ (http://nowculture.com/nc3/guidelines.htm) to see guidelines for submitting anonymously to the magazine. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 11 10:59:52 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:59:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Words Without Borders Message-ID: <6d.58717a79.316d1e68@aol.com> _http://www.wordswithoutborders.org/page.php?lab=About_ (http://www.wordswithoutborders.org/page.php?lab=About) I'm working on a translation program with some people at UofH and I came across this site...it's new to me. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 11 14:03:47 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:03:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <33a.2245059.316d1ca3@aol.com> Message-ID: <003c01c65d92$48377440$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I'm using Sam's Contemporary American Poetry anthology in my Amlit class. I had to give an assignment on the fly in class yesterday, and I didn't have the book with me. So I improvised...I'll get on to serious assigning from it tomorrow. For this time, I just said, "Read whatever he included by Robert Lowell." So I go home and look at the book. No ****ing Robert Lowell!!!!!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 11 07:41:25 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 06:41:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted Message-ID: I have recently become the poetry editor of FIRST THINGS. FIRST THINGS is published by The Institute on Religion and Public Life, an interreligious, nonpartisan research and education institute whose purpose is to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society. In keeping with its mission, the journal is interested in poetry of the highest quality, especially poetry on religious subjects or poetry informed by a religious sensibility. I am especially interested in formal poetry, but would also like to publish well-crafted free verse. The journal has a large, highly literate readership of over 35,000 and pays $50 per poem. If you would like to submit your work, send to. Poetry, Paul Lake First Things 156 Fifth Ave., Suite 400 New York, NY 10010. Here?s a link to the online version of the journal: http://www.firstthings.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 11 15:15:17 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:15:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <33a.2245059.316d1ca3@aol.com> <003c01c65d92$48377440$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <004401c65d9c$45201690$fdde3052@ANNY> Typical, very common mistakes, there are worse ones, don't worry. From: TheOldMole Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:03 PM I'm using Sam's Contemporary American Poetry anthology in my Amlit class. I had to give an assignment on the fly in class yesterday, and I didn't have the book with me. So I improvised...I'll get on to serious assigning from it tomorrow. For this time, I just said, "Read whatever he included by Robert Lowell." So I go home and look at the book. No ****ing Robert Lowell!!!!!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 11 18:36:58 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:36:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <33a.2245059.316d1ca3@aol.com><003c01c65d92$48377440$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <004401c65d9c$45201690$fdde3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <001601c65db8$71a8eea0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Yes, it's not the first time I've looked like an idiot. Nor is it the first time I've tried to shift the blame over to a friend. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Typical, very common mistakes, there are worse ones, don't worry. From: TheOldMole Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:03 PM I'm using Sam's Contemporary American Poetry anthology in my Amlit class. I had to give an assignment on the fly in class yesterday, and I didn't have the book with me. So I improvised...I'll get on to serious assigning from it tomorrow. For this time, I just said, "Read whatever he included by Robert Lowell." So I go home and look at the book. No ****ing Robert Lowell!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 11 23:08:40 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:08:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Message-ID: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com> You could explain next class that this was just a way of getting into the discussion of canon, who is in and who is out, the vagaries of fashion and taste when it comes to anthologies. Finnegan In a message dated 4/11/2006 6:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: Yes, it's not the first time I've looked like an idiot. Nor is it the first time I've tried to shift the blame over to a friend. ----- Original Message ----- From: _Anny Ballardini_ (mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it) To: _NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views_ (mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Typical, very common mistakes, there are worse ones, don't worry. From: _TheOldMole_ (mailto:tad at opus40.org) Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:03 PM I'm using Sam's Contemporary American Poetry anthology in my Amlit class. I had to give an assignment on the fly in class yesterday, and I didn't have the book with me. So I improvised...I'll get on to serious assigning from it tomorrow. For this time, I just said, "Read whatever he included by Robert Lowell." So I go home and look at the book. No ****ing Robert Lowell!!!!!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 11 23:17:54 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:17:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted Message-ID: <32c.259d8ec.316dcb62@aol.com> In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:54:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society Paul, That sounds a bit ominous...but since you bring up religion and philosophy and society, here's an article I read today that puts real science into the mix... Intelligent Design is Not Science: Official _http://www.philosophersnet.com/magazine/article.php?id=1000_ (http://www.philosophersnet.com/magazine/article.php?id=1000) Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 11 23:39:55 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:39:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com> Message-ID: <002e01c65de2$c4d58f00$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> It's an old trick...but it might work. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn You could explain next class that this was just a way of getting into the discussion of canon, who is in and who is out, the vagaries of fashion and taste when it comes to anthologies. Finnegan In a message dated 4/11/2006 6:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: Yes, it's not the first time I've looked like an idiot. Nor is it the first time I've tried to shift the blame over to a friend. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Typical, very common mistakes, there are worse ones, don't worry. From: TheOldMole Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:03 PM I'm using Sam's Contemporary American Poetry anthology in my Amlit class. I had to give an assignment on the fly in class yesterday, and I didn't have the book with me. So I improvised...I'll get on to serious assigning from it tomorrow. For this time, I just said, "Read whatever he included by Robert Lowell." So I go home and look at the book. No ****ing Robert Lowell!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 12 06:19:29 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:19:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com> Message-ID: <001d01c65e1a$f1011b20$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> You could explain next class that this was just a way of getting into the discussion of canon, who is in and who is out, the vagaries of fashion and taste when it comes to anthologies. Finnegan But was it a matter of taste or did Sam actually edit an anthology of contemporary poets, meaning people alive and writing when the anthology was published (rather than my usual definition of contemporary poets)? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 12 06:46:05 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:46:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted References: <32c.259d8ec.316dcb62@aol.com> Message-ID: <004a01c65e1e$4d447640$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:54:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society Paul, That sounds a bit ominous...but since you bring up religion and philosophy and society, here's an article I read today that puts real science into the mix... Intelligent Design is Not Science: Official http://www.philosophersnet.com/magazine/article.php?id=1000 Finnegan Yeah, I think "improvement" instead of "ordering" would sound better. Much better would be "to advance a religiously informed philosophy to broaden discussion of public issues." --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LauraHeidy at aol.com Wed Apr 12 06:58:26 2006 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:58:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted Message-ID: <302.31e346f.316e3752@aol.com> In a message dated 4/12/2006 5:46:37 AM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society Paul, That sounds a bit ominous...but since you bring up religion and philosophy and society, here's an article I read today that puts real science into the mix... That does sound a bit......scary. :) I'm a little familiar with First Things, and I know you said you are open to all sorts of poetry and that First Things is an interreligious publication, but honestly, I've never seen anything in there that isn't decidedly Christian-based. Most of my suitable "religious" poems have a definate Jewish cast to them....or they are entirely based upon the Old Testament...or relate to God without relating to a specific religion. I don't know that they would "fit in" to well in First Things. I may have missed something in my readings of the magazine, tho, and if so, I'd love to hear that from you and I'd be glad to submit a few poems. I write about God often and there's not much market for Him lately. :) One more thing....the guidelines don't mention previously submitted material. Yes or no? Lo _Terminal Chaosity_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/) http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Apr 12 07:15:44 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:15:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com> <001d01c65e1a$f1011b20$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004301c65e22$711cf520$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Sam's definition of contemporary poets was actually poets who are contemporaneous with us. Can you imagine the nerve? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn You could explain next class that this was just a way of getting into the discussion of canon, who is in and who is out, the vagaries of fashion and taste when it comes to anthologies. Finnegan But was it a matter of taste or did Sam actually edit an anthology of contemporary poets, meaning people alive and writing when the anthology was published (rather than my usual definition of contemporary poets)? --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 12 07:37:09 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:37:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com><001d01c65e1a$f1011b20$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <004301c65e22$711cf520$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <005801c65e25$6f679ca0$69df3052@ANNY> It would be interesting for me to understand the concept of contemporary and know how this definition is applied. In broad lines we have the post-modern and the contemporary? What is the difference for example in-between post-modern and contemporary_ has this also something to do with style, the former more decadent and the latter settled in the present what is modern (easier in architecture, but in litterature?), since we have a post-modern there are the modernists with their own guidelines From: TheOldMole Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:15 PM Sam's definition of contemporary poets was actually poets who are contemporaneous with us. Can you imagine the nerve? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn You could explain next class that this was just a way of getting into the discussion of canon, who is in and who is out, the vagaries of fashion and taste when it comes to anthologies. Finnegan But was it a matter of taste or did Sam actually edit an anthology of contemporary poets, meaning people alive and writing when the anthology was published (rather than my usual definition of contemporary poets)? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Apr 12 09:15:29 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:15:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Message-ID: <272.91ed284.316e5771@cs.com> Hey, just buy the damn book! I could use the money. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321182820/102-1069487-9123361?v=glance& n=283155 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 12 10:13:36 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:13:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Beckett's one hundredth tomorrow Message-ID: <85467FAE-F581-43DC-ABB6-C68514508D96@earthlink.net> Here's a piece from the Toronto Star just in time to prep us for the one hundredth birthday of Samuel Beckett, which is tomorrow, April 13. ===== He left 'no maggot lonely' Apr. 9, 2006. 11:18 AM Richard Ouzounian He opened the door to what looked like a darkened room and invited us to step inside. Once our eyes grew accustomed to the shadows, we could see things more clearly than ever before. That's the achievement of author Samuel Beckett, who was born 100 years ago this week. It was on April 13, 1906; the place was Cooldrinagh in Foxrock, County Dublin, and in a stroke of black humour he would have surely appreciated, the date happened to be both Good Friday and Friday the 13th. Years later, in his masterwork, Waiting for Godot, he had the tyrannical Pozzo offer a jaundiced view of coming into the world. "... one day we were born, one day we shall die, the same day, the same second, is that not enough for you? They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more." Beckett has variously been called a minimalist, an absurdist, an existentialist, a nihilist, a pessimist, an anarchist and an atheist, but he would shrug off all those labels, insisting instead "the words, the words, the words ? they speak for themselves." One of the few times he was ever lured into categorizing himself was when someone asked him how he would compare himself to James Joyce, his mentor, friend and fellow Irish literary giant. "James Joyce was a synthesizer, trying to bring in as much as he could," he said. "I am an analyzer, trying to leave out as much as I can." What he chose to leave out was what the theatre tended to thrive on in the mid 20th-century: elegant settings, sumptuous costumes, twisting plots, and happy endings. Instead, he gave us such things as a stage bare except for a single tree, occupied by two shabby tramps waiting for someone who never comes. On that empty stage and in those tattered souls, he offered us a wealth of brutality, compassion, hope and despair. Still, he would constantly denigrate the value of his work to anyone who would listen. "What do I know of man's destiny?" he would sneer. "I could tell you more about radishes." Where did he come from, this blend of Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday? A man who kept looking diligently for the worst in all of us but somehow could not help discovering the best. "I have an Irish soul and a French brain," he once laconically quipped. "That explains it all." Born to a middle-class Irish Protestant family, he grew up in the countryside, far removed from "the troubles" that were tearing his homeland apart. Ironically, he would never take sides in the politics of Ireland, but he later joined the French Resistance during World War II. Although an accomplished young athlete at the various schools he attended, he was frequently remembered by those who knew him as "a quiet lad," as well as "one fond of the solitude of his own company." At the age of 17 he entered Trinity College in Dublin and later quipped that "it contained the cream of Ireland ? rich and thick," but he blossomed during his time there. He studied French and Italian, became a patron of the thriving theatre scene, and began attending American silent movies. He admitted to an early fondness for the tragicomic styles of Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton, which shows in his later stage work. (Keaton, in fact, was to appear in Beckett's 1965 work for the screen called Film.) After graduating in 1927, Beckett went to Paris, where he met Joyce for the first time. The two men began a curious and long-term relationship. While remaining close friends, Beckett began working for Joyce as a literary assistant on the mammoth work that would finally emerge as Finnegans Wake. Beckett briefly returned to Trinity as a lecturer and began writing stories, poems and novels that all bore the heavy influence of the Joycean style. His very first work, 1930's Whoroscope, was a verse monologue supposedly delivered by the French philosopher Ren? Descartes. He moved back to Paris in 1937 and kept writing, although his books sold very little and his strongest work from the period, Murphy, took years to find a publisher. Still, Beckett was starting to form a distinctive voice of his own, though it was nearly stilled forever when a deranged pimp stabbed him through the lung on a Parisian street. Joyce rallied to his side, as did a young woman named Suzanne Deschevaux-Dumesnil, who would soon become Beckett's constant companion, finally marrying him in 1961. The arrival of World War II brought one of the strangest chapters in the previously apolitical Beckett's life. As the Nazis drew near to his beloved Paris, he never thought of returning to Ireland but instead became radically politicized and joined the Resistance, where he was known by the code name "L'Irlandais." He would later dismiss his activities as "just Boy Scout stuff," but the French Government awarded him the Croix de Guerre in 1945 "for extreme bravery." After the war, Beckett returned to Ireland, where he had what he claims was the defining moment of his life. While visiting his mother and sitting quietly in her bedroom, he experienced "a major artistic revelation." In a sudden flash not unlike one of Joyce's famous "epiphanies," Beckett says, "I became aware of my own folly. Only then did I begin to write the things I feel." Several changes manifested themselves. Beckett started writing predominantly in French ("because it has no style") and his work poured forth at a great rate. Over the next few years he was to complete, in French, his esteemed novel trilogy (Molloy, Malone Dies and The Unnameable). These works were virtually long monologues; one can see Beckett stripping away the conventional trappings of fiction, trying to get down to essentials. He subsequently made the leap to the stage, deciding that theatre's unadorned dialogue would allow him to convey his increasingly bleak worldview with more focus. In 1947, he began writing his first play, Eleutheria, which was never produced or published in his lifetime. Then, in 1949, he created Waiting for Godot. Beckett once wrote to a friend about how odd his sudden embracing of this new art form was. "I have no ideas on the theatre. I know nothing about it. I never go." Some cynics suggest that the perpetually broke Beckett saw the more immediate returns of the box office as more appealing than the world of the novel, where one can wait years for financial compensation Whatever the reason, Beckett's second play was a masterpiece. It took four years for actor-director Roger Blin to raise enough money to get En Attendant Godot on stage in Paris, in a decrepit venue in Montparnasse called Th??tre de Babylone. When it opened in January of 1953, the critics were dismissive and the initial audiences confused. But people kept filling the theatre. There was something that drew them to this simple work about two tramps, a bully, a mute and a little boy, all waiting for someone who never comes. Director Peter Hall brought it to England, but Ralph Richardson turned down the lead on the advice of John Gielgud, who called the play "rubbish." Richardson was later to pronounce it "the biggest mistake of my career, turning down the greatest play of my generation." It opened quietly in the summer of 1955, once again to confused reviews and baffled audiences, who still couldn't keep away. But some of the critics began to grasp the message, and the venerable Harold Hobson in the Sunday Times called it "something that will securely lodge in a corner of your mind as long as you live." When it opened on Broadway the next year, starring the great comedian Bert Lahr, The New York Times critic Brooks Atkinson, while admitting that the play mystified him, hailed "the strange power this drama has to convey the impression of some melancholy truths about the hopeless destiny of the human race." Over the decades, Waiting for Godot has proven to be one of the most durable scripts of our time. It has been cast all white, all black and rainbow-hued. Mike Nichols took it on a mad comic ride with Steve Martin and Robin Williams, while right now Morris Panych is interpreting it in Vancouver as a study of francophone vs. anglophone Canada. While it remains the bleak, dark jewel of Beckett's work, it does not shine alone; in rapid succession its author produced Endgame, Krapp's Last Tape, and Happy Days before starting to grow ever more minimalist, with scripts like Not I, Act Without Words and Play, finally arriving at his ultimate statement in the 35-second Breath. Here is its complete script: Curtain. 1. Faint light on stage littered with miscellaneous rubbish. Hold about five seconds. 2. Faint brief cry and immediately inspiration and slow increase of light together reaching maximum together in about 10 seconds. Silence and hold for about five seconds. 3. Expiration and slow decrease of light together reaching minimum together (light as in 1) in about 10 seconds and immediately cry as before. Silence and hold about five seconds. Curtain. Some viewers and critics mocked this as the work of a poseur, but those who had been listening to Beckett closely all along knew that his message was true. For although he believed that writing was "the only thing that mattered," he still ultimately felt it was "a stain upon the silence." All the honours the world could offer him came his way, including the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1969. But his health began failing him and most of the last decades of his life were spent under the shadow of illness. As he lay dying, a friend asked him "What colour would you like your tombstone, Sam?" He replied, "Any colour... so long as it's grey." The man who wrote, "I can't go on. I'll go on," finally ended the journey on Dec. 22, 1989. He once observed that "Birth was the death of him," but all jokes finally come home to roost. Harold Pinter summed up the strange power and ugly beauty that Beckett's work still possesses for us when he wrote: "He is the most courageous, remorseless writer going, and the more he grinds my nose in the shit, the more I am grateful to him. "He's not fucking me about, he's not leading me up any garden path, he's not slipping me a wink, he's not flogging me a remedy or a path or a revelation or a basinful of breadcrumbs, he's not selling me anything I don't want to buy ? he doesn't give a bollock whether I buy or not ? he hasn't got his hand over his heart. Well, I'll buy his goods, hook, line and sinker, because he leaves no stone unturned and no maggot lonely. He brings forth a body of beauty." Yes, Beckett did all of that, but he also left us a note of hope in the middle of his carefully orchestrated symphony of despair. "We are not saints," he wrote, "but we have kept our appointment. How many people can boast as much?" ===== Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 12 10:34:51 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:34:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] contemporary contretemps Message-ID: <338.244a364.316e6a0b@aol.com> In a message dated 4/12/2006 6:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: But was it a matter of taste or did Sam actually edit an anthology of contemporary poets, meaning people alive and writing when the anthology was published (rather than my usual definition of contemporary poets)? The 'alive' aspect of a defining term like contemporary (when used not as chronology but as a literary marker) strikes me as flawed because it doesn't take into account relative lifespans. Someone like Plath or the artist Basquit would get short changed by that definition. While a Stanley Kunitz would get to be contemporary since the Cretaceous period. Though still very arbitrary as a defining line, I would think using a 'rolling half-century' would make more sense. Publishing poems as contemporary if they first appeared in the last fifty years. Thus you might include late Lowell but not poems from books like Lord Weary's Castle and Land of Unlikeness. The real judgment call comes in when you think of contemporary not as those poets 'still alive' or poems published in 'last half-century' but when you try to weigh the 'influence of the poet/poetry' as it makes itself known among the current crop of practicing poets. Thus, I could see a case being made for Emily Dickinson being 'contemporary' when the influence of her poetry was most felt in 20s and 30s, and probably fit better then with modernist sensibilities and practices of the times than it would have had the poetry been widely known in the middle of the 19th Century. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 12 10:51:51 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:51:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Women, Poetry and Politics: A Conference in Honor of Alicia Suskin Ostriker Message-ID: <1be.21a7e92.316e6e07@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:57:46 -0400 Subject: Women, Poetry and Politics: A Conference in Honor of Alicia Suskin Ostriker Please join us for a conference on "Women, Poetry and Politics" on Friday April 28, bringing together award winning poets, from Rutgers and beyond (including poet Daisy Fried, 2006 Guggenheim fellowship winner), and former students and colleagues of Professor Alicia Ostriker. Women, Poetry and Politics: A Conference in Honor of Alicia Suskin Ostriker Friday, April 28, 2006 Zimmerli Art Museum Rutgers University All events below are free and open to the public: 10-11:45 a.m. Panel I: Writing Like a Woman Harriet Davidson: Introduction and moderator --Toi Derricotte (poet): Writing Like an (Old?) (Mature?) (Wise?) Woman --Anne Herzog (University of Westchester): "Art [in]divisible from dirt":= =20 Mapping the Lines between Soul and Landscape in Mary Oliver=92s Poetry --Cheryl Clarke (poet, Rutgers University): Writing Like A Black Woman=20= --Martha Nell Smith (University of Maryland): =93The Imperative of=20 Intimacy=94: A Rumination Beginning with a Phrase by Ostriker=20 1-2:45 p.m. Panel II: Stealing the Language Abena Busia: Introduction and moderator --Jan Heller Levi (poet): Writing Like A Woman, After Alicia Ostriker --Eleanor Wilner (poet) : "Ladre di linguaggi=94: Thieves of language in = the=20 feminine case; an international conference on the revision and subversion= =20 of Greek myth in literature by women --Sara Warner (Cornell University): Feminist Revision and Mythology --Marianne DeKoven (Rutgers University): The Consequences of Language=20 Theft: Stealing the Language Twenty Years Later=20 3-4:45 Panel III: Dancing at the Devil=92s Party Evie Shockley: Introduction and moderator --Marilyn Hacker (poet): A Poetry Reading --Kathy Crown (Princeton University): Ecstasy: A Poet's Casebook --Daisy Fried (poet) : =93Do they hate me=94: What to Love in American=20= Political Poetry." --Anthony Lioi (MIT): Dance Mix for the Devil's Party: Heretical Unions i= n=20 Feminist Theory and Practice 5:15 =966:30 Keynote address: Introduction: Martha Nell Smith=20 Alicia Suskin Ostriker: Women and Poetry: What=92s Politics Got to Do Wit= h=20 It? 6:30-7:30 Reception http://english.rutgers.edu/conferences/ostriker/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 12 10:56:17 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:56:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] contemporary contretemps In-Reply-To: <338.244a364.316e6a0b@aol.com> References: <338.244a364.316e6a0b@aol.com> Message-ID: <921EEBF3-C30E-4789-A076-A70CFE70DD7D@earthlink.net> Something there is that does not like a defining line. Hal Jay Billington Bulworth for President Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 12, 2006, at 10:34 AM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/12/2006 6:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > But was it a matter of taste or did Sam actually edit an anthology > of contemporary poets, meaning people alive and writing when the > anthology was published (rather than my usual definition of > contemporary poets)? > > The 'alive' aspect of a defining term like contemporary (when used > not as chronology but as a literary marker) strikes me as flawed > because it doesn't take into account relative lifespans. Someone > like Plath or the artist Basquit would get short changed by that > definition. While a Stanley Kunitz would get to be contemporary > since the Cretaceous period. > > Though still very arbitrary as a defining line, I would think using > a 'rolling half-century' would make more sense. Publishing poems > as contemporary if they first appeared in the last fifty years. Thus > you might include late Lowell but not poems from books like > Lord Weary's Castle and Land of Unlikeness. > > The real judgment call comes in when you think of contemporary not > as those poets 'still alive' or poems published in 'last half-century' > but when you try to weigh the 'influence of the poet/poetry' as it > makes itself known among the current crop of practicing poets. Thus, > I could see a case being made for Emily Dickinson being 'contemporary' > when the influence of her poetry was most felt in 20s and 30s, > and probably fit better then with modernist sensibilities and > practices > of the times than it would have had the poetry been widely known > in the middle of the 19th Century. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 12 03:59:47 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:59:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted In-Reply-To: <200604112353848.SM05060@mailgate.atu.edu> Message-ID: On 4/11/06 10:17 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:54:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: >> to advance a >> religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society > Paul, > That sounds a bit ominous...but since you bring up religion and > philosophy and society, here's an article I read today that puts > real science into the mix... > Intelligent Design is Not Science: Official > http://www.philosophersnet.com/magazine/article.php?id=1000 > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Jim, I lifted the description of the journal from its website. The journal, while conservative in orientation, is generally too witty and intelligent to be ominous. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 12 11:06:14 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:06:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com><001d01c65e1a$f1011b20$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004301c65e22$711cf520$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <005801c65e25$6f679ca0$69df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <008a01c65e42$a5116170$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> We've been through this before--partly in some cases because of my polemical tendency to call living poets working entirely in ancient modes non-contemporaries. But I agree that a reasonable definition of contemporary poetry is simply anything less than a generation old, giving a generation a generous age of, say, thirty years. "Modern" and "Post-Modern," in my view, are not useful terms. I think terms should not have anything to do with who/when/where of an art, just with what. But journalists and propagandists prefer unrigorous terms, and they rule, it would seem. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 12 11:15:44 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:15:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <1f5.1dfe2a4d.316dc938@aol.com><001d01c65e1a$f1011b20$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004301c65e22$711cf520$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <005801c65e25$6f679ca0$69df3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <009401c65e43$f8653580$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Extra Question: What about poetry composed by someone living that's more than thirty-years-old? I think that would have to qualify as contemporary poetry, too--unless too widely considered long-outmoded, and no longer composed by the one who composed it. Not a problem in poetry since I don't think any form of poetry has become outmoded since poets stopped using "thee" and "thou." I would avoid the term, "contemporary," as a taxonomist, for the same reason I'd avoid "modern" and "post-modern," but it's a useful term for specifying work by people still going. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 12 11:38:50 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:38:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Message-ID: <20060412153850.267F513CFF@smapp03.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 12 11:49:04 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:49:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Beckett's one hundredth tomorrow Message-ID: <20060412154904.43F622EC015@smapp01.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 12 04:50:09 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:50:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted In-Reply-To: <200604120749609.SM00920@mailgate.atu.edu> Message-ID: On 4/12/06 5:46 AM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > >> In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:54:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: >>> to advance a >>> religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society >> Paul, >> That sounds a bit ominous...but since you bring up religion and >> philosophy and society, here's an article I read today that puts >> real science into the mix... >> Intelligent Design is Not Science: Official >> http://www.philosophersnet.com/magazine/article.php?id=1000 >> >> Finnegan >> Yeah, I think "improvement" instead of "ordering" would sound better. Much >> better would be "to advance a >> religiously informed philosophy to broaden discussion of public issues." >> >> --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I like your revision, Bob. But I?m just the poetry editor. I don?t write mission statements. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 12 11:53:45 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:53:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn References: <272.91ed284.316e5771@cs.com> Message-ID: <006b01c65e49$47d19960$97a33852@ANNY> I bought it, second hand though... little money for Sam, sorry, ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] ****ing Sam Gywnn Hey, just buy the damn book! I could use the money. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321182820/102-1069487-9123361?v=glance&n=283155 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 12 04:52:29 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:52:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted In-Reply-To: <200604120750453.SM02700@mailgate.atu.edu> Message-ID: On 4/12/06 5:58 AM, "LauraHeidy at aol.com" wrote: > Most of my suitable "religious" poems have a definate Jewish cast to > them....or they are entirely based upon the Old Testament...or relate to God > without relating to a specific religion. I don't know that they would "fit > in" to well in First Things. > > I may have missed something in my readings of the magazine, tho, and if so, > I'd love to hear that from you and I'd be glad to submit a few poems. I write > about God often and there's not much market for Him lately. :) > > One more thing....the guidelines don't mention previously submitted material. > Yes or no? Laura, The journal describes itself as ecumenical and does include Jewish and other non-Christian writers. If you ?ve got poems on the Old Testament (so do I) or other religious subjects, then by all means please send them. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 12 12:29:13 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:29:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry links page Message-ID: A page called The Page is available here: http://thepage.name/ It's a links site run by Andrew Johnston with wonderfully diverse links to "poetry, essays, language, ideas"--with much poetry-related material. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 12 12:42:59 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:42:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Give it a listen: Billie Whitelaw on working with Beckett Message-ID: <92C6AB7F-047D-486A-8433-531D384D13C3@earthlink.net> http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/03/reviews/970803.03dickstt.html#hear Hal "Poetic statements are no more actual statements than the peaches visible in a still life are actual dessert." --Susanne K. Langer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 12 12:48:20 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:48:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry links page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12833210-96A9-40F3-A022-BA5C1F4F44DD@earthlink.net> Looks like an interesting source page, David. He even, near the top, spells John Ashbery's name correctly. That's a reassuring touch. Hal "I have the feeling that we are getting nowhere, and that is a pleasure." --John Cage Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 12, 2006, at 12:29 PM, David Graham wrote: > A page called The Page is available here: > > http://thepage.name/ > > It's a links site run by Andrew Johnston with wonderfully diverse > links to > "poetry, essays, language, ideas"--with much poetry-related material. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Apr 12 13:43:04 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:43:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] contemporary contretemps References: <338.244a364.316e6a0b@aol.com> Message-ID: <00df01c65e58$8dd8b380$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> In a message dated 4/12/2006 6:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: But was it a matter of taste or did Sam actually edit an anthology of contemporary poets, meaning people alive and writing when the anthology was published (rather than my usual definition of contemporary poets)? The 'alive' aspect of a defining term like contemporary (when used not as chronology but as a literary marker) strikes me as flawed because it doesn't take into account relative lifespans. Someone like Plath or the artist Basquit would get short changed by that definition. While a Stanley Kunitz would get to be contemporary since the Cretaceous period. Though still very arbitrary as a defining line, I would think using a 'rolling half-century' would make more sense. Publishing poems as contemporary if they first appeared in the last fifty years. Thus you might include late Lowell but not poems from books like Lord Weary's Castle and Land of Unlikeness. That makes sense and was about what I said in my two posts, I think. Except I'd go for a long generation rather than a rolling half century, which seems a long time for contemporaneity in many cases. I think I'd define someone who has been dead for thirty years or more as no longer a contemporary. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 12 14:29:50 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:29:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted Message-ID: <301.32aaeeb.316ea11e@aol.com> In a message dated 4/12/2006 11:55:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: The journal describes itself as ecumenical and does include Jewish and other non-Christian writers. If you ?ve got poems on the Old Testament (so do I) or other religious subjects, then by all means please send them. Yesterday I got something in mail from Richard Jones at Poetry East...he's going to be assembling a huge collection of poems & other writings related to the Ten Commandments. _http://www.poetryeast.org/_ (http://www.poetryeast.org/) I don't think he's after much that could classed as contemporary. Are we poised for another Great Revival...will the true poets all be Billy Sundays? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 12 14:45:26 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:45:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem suddenly become topical Message-ID: <381.425d14.316ea4c6@aol.com> I wrote this dramatic monologue some years ago (even slammed with it a few times); then it was published as broadside by Bull Thistle Press. Last week it became topical... _http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/11/opinion/edmartin.php_ (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/11/opinion/edmartin.php) -- The Judas Testament I believed in him as a man. His road was my road--his every word, my bread. Yes it's true, for my price and promise to deliver his body into their hands, I took the silver. But the purse was nothing to me. At evening near the empty marketplace, I scattered the Caesar's coins at the feet of some lepers unraveling their bandages in jagged shadows of palm. With that one kiss I realized he was already gone from this earth, mist vanishing into an ethereal lie, speaking as God's son from on high. We didn't need that kind of salvation, messiah for the everafter. I wanted him to say: This is the way into or out of, follow me now. Because he believed he was the one chosen, thus I betrayed only to prove him human. Though failed, for afterwards the faithful thought him risen from the dead through divine light. No, he's not coming back. And I was not drowned in a cistern by an angry mob, nor did I hang from any tree. I didn't die easily either. So then let this be my gospel--I say, look into your own hands for the nailmarks, and that spearwound in his side cried out in blood like any other mouth in disbelief at death. All has healed over. No one to worship or blame. No one to answer to, none to save us. All the right words spoken in the wrong world, so much of what that good man said was true, but a god would have known that this earth is the deaf ear of heaven. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 12 14:57:24 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:57:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry links page Message-ID: <20060412185724.3C22E13CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 12 15:00:34 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:00:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem suddenly become topical Message-ID: <20060412190034.E3E7813CEA@smapp03.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 12 08:10:37 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:10:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted In-Reply-To: <301.32aaeeb.316ea11e@aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/06 1:29 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > Are we poised for another Great Revival...will the true poets all be Billy > Sundays? > > Finnegan I doubt it. Maybe we can hope for William Blakes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 12 08:13:45 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:13:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem suddenly become topical In-Reply-To: <381.425d14.316ea4c6@aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/06 1:45 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > I wrote this dramatic monologue some years ago (even slammed with it a few > times); > > then it was published as broadside by Bull Thistle Press. > > Last week it became topical... > > http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/11/opinion/edmartin.php > > > > -- > > > > The Judas Testament > > > > I believed in him as a man. His road > > was my road--his every word, my bread. > > Yes it's true, for my price and promise > > to deliver his body into their hands, I took the silver. > > But the purse was nothing to me. > > At evening near the empty marketplace, > > I scattered the Caesar's coins at the feet of some lepers > > unraveling their bandages in jagged shadows of palm. > > With that one kiss I realized he was already gone > > from this earth, mist vanishing into > > an ethereal lie, speaking as God's son from on high. > > We didn't need that kind of salvation, > > messiah for the everafter. I wanted > > him to say: This is the way into or out of, > > follow me now. Because he believed > > he was the one chosen, thus I betrayed > > only to prove him human. Though failed, > > for afterwards the faithful thought him risen from the dead > > through divine light. No, he's not coming back. > > And I was not drowned in a cistern > > by an angry mob, nor did I hang > > from any tree. I didn't die easily either. > > So then let this be my gospel--I say, > > look into your own hands for the nailmarks, > > and that spearwound in his side cried out in blood > > like any other mouth in disbelief at death. > > All has healed over. No one to worship or blame. > > No one to answer to, none to save us. > > All the right words spoken in the wrong world, > > so much of what that good man said was true, > > but a god would have known > > that this earth is the deaf ear of heaven. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >From what I?ve read, the newly discovered Gospel of Judas is a Gnostic text written about 300 A.D., in which Jesus thanks Judas for helping free him from the clay prison of his body? a very Gnostic idea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 12 15:24:37 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:24:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry and the Internet Message-ID: <20060412192437.38FDE13CEA@smapp04.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 12 15:49:18 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:49:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem suddenly become topical References: <20060412190034.E3E7813CEA@smapp03.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <005101c65e6a$30084330$47aa3852@ANNY> The beginning brought me back to one of my classes when I finally took the decision that I would never again say anything regarding the morality of a student, because only those who studied felt touched while the others, the ones to whom my little lecture was addressed, were looking out of the window, thinking of something else. Then I recognized JforJames who goes well deeper than my previous observation. From: opus40-01 at opus40.org Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:00 PM I like this one. Not to make something like this both historically and poetically interesting. On Wed Apr 12 14:45 , JforJames at aol.com sent: I wrote this dramatic monologue some years ago (even slammed with it a few times); then it was published as broadside by Bull Thistle Press. Last week it became topical... http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/11/opinion/edmartin.php -- The Judas Testament I believed in him as a man. His road was my road--his every word, my bread. Yes it's true, for my price and promise to deliver his body into their hands, I took the silver. But the purse was nothing to me. At evening near the empty marketplace, I scattered the Caesar's coins at the feet of some lepers unraveling their bandages in jagged shadows of palm. With that one kiss I realized he was already gone from this earth, mist vanishing into an ethereal lie, speaking as God's son from on high. We didn't need that kind of salvation, messiah for the everafter. I wanted him to say: This is the way into or out of, follow me now. Because he believed he was the one chosen, thus I betrayed only to prove him human. Though failed, for afterwards the faithful thought him risen from the dead through divine light. No, he's not coming back. And I was not drowned in a cistern by an angry mob, nor did I hang from any tree. I didn't die easily either. So then let this be my gospel--I say, look into your own hands for the nailmarks, and that spearwound in his side cried out in blood like any other mouth in disbelief at death. All has healed over. No one to worship or blame. No one to answer to, none to save us. All the right words spoken in the wrong world, so much of what that good man said was true, but a god would have known that this earth is the deaf ear of heaven. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Wed Apr 12 16:35:23 2006 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:35:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted References: Message-ID: <004101c65e70$a0340670$e57ca918@yourae066c3a9b> Re: [New-Poetry] Poems Wanted Are we poised for another Great Revival...will the true poets all be Billy Sundays? Finnegan I doubt it. Maybe we can hope for William Blakes. Or Samuel Becketts. Cheers, Gerald Schwartz preparing to light the b-day candles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com Wed Apr 12 17:27:45 2006 From: DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:27:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] politics and religion Message-ID: <200604122128.k3CLSvxF015942@d01av04.pok.ibm.com> ***** Reply to your note of: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:00:06 -0400 ************* Those who want to propose bringing religious convictions into the political arena need to read or re-read the wonderful Christmas dinner scene toward the beginning of "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man." Richard From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 09:26:37 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:26:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heaney Message-ID: Seamus Heaney is 67 years old today. Hard to believe, really, since when I was starting out he was one of the young ones. I still think Death of a Naturalist is one of the best debut collections of last century. Hard to believe that it first appeared 40 years ago! Has anyone yet seen his new collection? I've seen it reviewed, but haven't yet set eyes on it. Perch Perch on their water-perch hung in the clear Bann River Near the clay bank in alder-dapple and waver, Perch we called "grunts," little flood-slubs, runty and ready, I saw and I see in the river's glorified body That is passable through, but they're bluntly holding the pass, Under the water-roof, over the bottom, adoze, Guzzling the current, against it, all muscle and slur In the finland of perch, the fenland of alder, on air That is water, on carpets of Bann stream, on hold In the everything flows and steady go of the world. --Seamus Heaney. Electric Light, 2001. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 10:10:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:10:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem suddenly become topical Message-ID: <332.2827005.316fb5b8@aol.com> Saint Judas When I went out to kill myself, I caught A pack of hoodlums beating up a man. Running to spare his suffering, I forgot My name, my number, how my day began, How soldiers milled around the garden stone And sang amusing songs; how all that day Their javelins measured crowds; how I alone Bargained the proper coins, and slipped away. Banished from heaven, I found this victim beaten, Stripped, kneed, and left to cry. Dropping my rope Aside, I ran, ignored the uniforms: Then I remembered bread my flesh had eaten, The kiss that ate my flesh. Flayed without hope, I held the man for nothing in my arms. --James Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 10:11:36 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:11:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heaney References: Message-ID: <005d01c65f04$2d150ce0$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I like this poem but have a question: can anyone tell me what it is doing that is significantly different from what Heaney's poems were doing when he was first published? I am NOT one of those who believes a poet must "evolve." Sure, I DO think those who go from what I call the knownstream into the otherstream are valuable in one way those who don't make this transition are not, but the best otherstream poems are not necessarily better than the best knownstream poems. --Bob G. Perch Perch on their water-perch hung in the clear Bann River Near the clay bank in alder-dapple and waver, Perch we called "grunts," little flood-slubs, runty and ready, I saw and I see in the river's glorified body That is passable through, but they're bluntly holding the pass, Under the water-roof, over the bottom, adoze, Guzzling the current, against it, all muscle and slur In the finland of perch, the fenland of alder, on air That is water, on carpets of Bann stream, on hold In the everything flows and steady go of the world. --Seamus Heaney. Electric Light, 2001. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 10:27:34 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:27:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper Message-ID: <2f8.332ff0b.316fb9d6@aol.com> "Science may be described as the art of systematic oversimplification." ?Karl Popper, The Logic of Scientific Discovery (1957) "Criticism may be described as the art of systematic oversimplification." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 10:28:37 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:28:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A thought for Beckett's 100th birthday References: <332.2827005.316fb5b8@aol.com> Message-ID: <001001c65f06$8efa2b00$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Nothing to be done. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 11:11:45 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:11:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Everything is dark . . . Message-ID: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org From gejs1 at rochester.rr.com Thu Apr 13 11:28:28 2006 From: gejs1 at rochester.rr.com (Gerald Schwartz) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:28:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Everything is dark . . . References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01c65f0e$ea85dca0$e57ca918@yourae066c3a9b> Delight Just now a glint of sunlight on glass alerts me. That massive cloud has all come underfoot, unmarred white. --Gerald Schwartz > for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, > though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark > card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks > the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the > lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? > > -- Jim From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 11:30:03 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:30:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Everything is dark . . . References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007401c65f0f$22a9cf60$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Ode to things by Pablo Neruda I have a crazy, crazy love of things. I like pliers, and scissors. I love cups, rings, and bowls? not to speak, of course, of hats. I love all things, not just the grandest, also the infinite? ly small? thimbles, spurs, plates, and flower vases. Oh yes, the planet is sublime! It's full of pipes weaving hand-held through tobacco smoke, and keys and salt shakers? everything, I mean, that is made by the hand of man, every little thing: shapely shoes, and fabric, and each new bloodless birth of gold, eyeglasses, carpenter's nails, brushes, clocks, compasses, coins, and the so-soft softness of chairs. Mankind has built oh so many perfect things! Built them of wool and of wood, of glass and of rope: remarkable tables, ships, and stairways. I love all things, not because they are passionate or sweet-smelling but because, I don't know, because this ocean is yours, and mine: these buttons and wheels and little forgotten treasures, fans upon whose feathers love has scattered its blossoms, glasses, knives and scissors ? all bear the trace of someone' s fingers on their handle or surface, the trace of a distant hand lost in the depths of forgetfulness. I pause in houses, streets and elevators, touching things, identifYing objects that I secretly covet: this one because it rings, that one because it's as soft as the softness of a woman's hip, that one there for its deep-sea color, and that one for its velvet feel. O irrevocable river of things: no one can say that I loved only fish, or the plants of the jungle and the field, that I loved only those things that leap and climb, desire, and survive. It's not true: many things conspired to tell me the whole story Not only did they touch me, or my hand touched them: they were so close that they were a part of my being, they were so alive with me that they lived half my life and will die half my death. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:11 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Everything is dark . . . > for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, > though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark > card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks > the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the > lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 13 11:59:18 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:59:18 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Everything is dark . . . References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY> Neruda's one is just so good, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So early it's still almost dark out. I'm near the window with coffee, and the usual early morning stuff that passes for thought. When I see the boy and his friend walking up the road to deliver the newspaper. They wear caps and sweaters, and one boy has a bag over his shoulder. They are so happy they aren't saying anything, these boys. I think if they could, they would take each other's arm. It's early in the morning, and they are doing this thing together. They come on, slowly. The sky is taking on light, though the moon still hangs pale over the water. Such beauty that for a minute death and ambition, even love, doesn't enter into this. Happiness. It comes on unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really, any early morning talk about it. Happiness - Raymond Carver -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:11 PM > for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, > though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark > card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks > the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the > lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 12:04:33 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:04:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Everything is dark . . . In-Reply-To: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: SUMMONS Keep me from going to sleep too soon Or if I go to sleep too soon Come wake me up. Come any hour Of night. Come whistling up the road. Stomp on the porch. Bang on the door. Make me get out of bed and come And let you in and light a light. Tell me the northern lights are on And make me look. Or tell me the clouds Are doing something to the moon They never did before, and show me. See that I see. Talk to me till I?m half as wide awake as you And start to dress wondering why I ever went to bed at all. Tell me the walking is superb. Not only tell me but persuade me. You know I?m not too hard persuaded. --Robert Francis, *The Sound I Listened For* (1944) On 4/13/06 10:11 AM, "James Cervantes" wrote: > for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, > though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark > card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks > the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the > lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? > > -- Jim > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 12:14:36 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:14:36 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Everything is dark . . . In-Reply-To: <006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY> References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> <006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60604130914r6c8961e3w8ca0abfb6d666652@mail.gmail.com> Oh joy! My happiness quotient rises like gas after an Alka Seltzer. Keep them coming. I', already searching for an appropriate graphic to use on the cover sheet for this min-anthology. - Jim On 4/13/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Neruda's one is just so good, > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > So early it's still almost dark out. > I'm near the window with coffee, > and the usual early morning stuff > that passes for thought. > > When I see the boy and his friend > walking up the road > to deliver the newspaper. > > They wear caps and sweaters, > and one boy has a bag over his shoulder. > They are so happy > they aren't saying anything, these boys. > > I think if they could, they would take > each other's arm. > It's early in the morning, > and they are doing this thing together. > > They come on, slowly. > The sky is taking on light, > though the moon still hangs pale over the water. > > Such beauty that for a minute > death and ambition, even love, > doesn't enter into this. > > Happiness. It comes on > unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really, > any early morning talk about it. > > Happiness - Raymond Carver > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "James Cervantes" > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:11 PM > > > > for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, > > though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark > > card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks > > the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the > > lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? > > > > -- Jim > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > > http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > > > From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 13 12:25:10 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:25:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Everything is dark . . . In-Reply-To: <648208b60604130914r6c8961e3w8ca0abfb6d666652@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> <006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY> <648208b60604130914r6c8961e3w8ca0abfb6d666652@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Would "Pippa Passes" pass muster? Hal "What do I know of man's destiny? I could tell you more about radishes." --Samuel Beckett Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 13, 2006, at 12:14 PM, James Cervantes wrote: > Oh joy! My happiness quotient rises like gas after an Alka Seltzer. > Keep them coming. I', already searching for an appropriate graphic to > use on the cover sheet for this min-anthology. > > - Jim > > On 4/13/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Neruda's one is just so good, >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >> >> >> So early it's still almost dark out. >> I'm near the window with coffee, >> and the usual early morning stuff >> that passes for thought. >> >> When I see the boy and his friend >> walking up the road >> to deliver the newspaper. >> >> They wear caps and sweaters, >> and one boy has a bag over his shoulder. >> They are so happy >> they aren't saying anything, these boys. >> >> I think if they could, they would take >> each other's arm. >> It's early in the morning, >> and they are doing this thing together. >> >> They come on, slowly. >> The sky is taking on light, >> though the moon still hangs pale over the water. >> >> Such beauty that for a minute >> death and ambition, even love, >> doesn't enter into this. >> >> Happiness. It comes on >> unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really, >> any early morning talk about it. >> >> Happiness - Raymond Carver >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >> >> From: "James Cervantes" >> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:11 PM >> >> >>> for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, >>> though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark >>> card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks >>> the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the >>> lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? >>> >>> -- Jim >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >>> http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html >>> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 13 12:31:20 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:31:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Heaney In-Reply-To: <005d01c65f04$2d150ce0$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <005d01c65f04$2d150ce0$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Heaney, Meaney, Miney, Mo Hal, downstream pote "What do I know of man's destiny? I could tell you more about radishes." --Samuel Beckett Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 13, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I like this poem but have a question: can anyone tell me what it is > doing that is significantly different from what Heaney's poems were > doing when he was first published? I am NOT one of those who > believes a poet must "evolve." Sure, I DO think those who go from > what I call the knownstream into the otherstream are valuable in > one way those who don't make this transition are not, but the best > otherstream poems are not necessarily better than the best > knownstream poems. > > --Bob G. > > > > Perch > > Perch on their water-perch hung in the clear Bann River > Near the clay bank in alder-dapple and waver, > > Perch we called "grunts," little flood-slubs, runty and ready, > I saw and I see in the river's glorified body > > That is passable through, but they're bluntly holding the pass, > Under the water-roof, over the bottom, adoze, > > Guzzling the current, against it, all muscle and slur > In the finland of perch, the fenland of alder, on air > > That is water, on carpets of Bann stream, on hold > In the everything flows and steady go of the world. > > > --Seamus Heaney. Electric Light, 2001. > > > > ========================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 12:31:50 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:31:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Everything is dark . . . References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com><006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY> <648208b60604130914r6c8961e3w8ca0abfb6d666652@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b401c65f17$c47a3e30$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I HEAR AMERICA SINGING by Walt Whitman. I hear America singing, the varied carols I hear; Those of mechanics--each one singing his, as it should be, blithe and strong; The carpenter singing his, as he measures his plank or beam, The mason singing his, as he makes ready for work, or leaves off work; The boatman singing what belongs to him in his boat--the deckhand singing on the steamboat deck; The shoemaker singing as he sits on his bench--the hatter singing as he stands; The wood-cutter's song--the ploughboy's, on his way in the morning, or at the noon intermission, or at sundown; The delicious singing of the mother--or of the young wife at work--or of the girl sewing or washing--Each singing what belongs to her, and to none else; The day what belongs to the day--At night, the party of young fellows, robust, friendly, Singing, with open mouths, their strong melodious songs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Everything is dark . . . > Oh joy! My happiness quotient rises like gas after an Alka Seltzer. > Keep them coming. I', already searching for an appropriate graphic to > use on the cover sheet for this min-anthology. > > - Jim > > On 4/13/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> Neruda's one is just so good, >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> So early it's still almost dark out. >> I'm near the window with coffee, >> and the usual early morning stuff >> that passes for thought. >> >> When I see the boy and his friend >> walking up the road >> to deliver the newspaper. >> >> They wear caps and sweaters, >> and one boy has a bag over his shoulder. >> They are so happy >> they aren't saying anything, these boys. >> >> I think if they could, they would take >> each other's arm. >> It's early in the morning, >> and they are doing this thing together. >> >> They come on, slowly. >> The sky is taking on light, >> though the moon still hangs pale over the water. >> >> Such beauty that for a minute >> death and ambition, even love, >> doesn't enter into this. >> >> Happiness. It comes on >> unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really, >> any early morning talk about it. >> >> Happiness - Raymond Carver >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> From: "James Cervantes" >> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:11 PM >> >> >> > for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, >> > though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark >> > card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks >> > the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the >> > lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? >> > >> > -- Jim >> > >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >> > http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html >> > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 12:34:56 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:34:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <005d01c65f04$2d150ce0$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Gee, Bob, why do you ask? On 4/13/06 9:11 AM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > I like this poem but have a question: can anyone tell me what it is doing that > is significantly different from what Heaney's poems were doing when he was > first published? I am NOT one of those who believes a poet must "evolve." > Sure, I DO think those who go from what I call the knownstream into the > otherstream are valuable in one way those who don't make this transition are > not, but the best otherstream poems are not necessarily better than the best > knownstream poems. > > --Bob G. > > > >> >> >> Perch >> >> >> >> Perch on their water-perch hung in the clear Bann River >> >> Near the clay bank in alder-dapple and waver, >> >> >> >> Perch we called "grunts," little flood-slubs, runty and ready, >> >> I saw and I see in the river's glorified body >> >> >> >> That is passable through, but they're bluntly holding the pass, >> >> Under the water-roof, over the bottom, adoze, >> >> >> >> Guzzling the current, against it, all muscle and slur >> >> In the finland of perch, the fenland of alder, on air >> >> >> >> That is water, on carpets of Bann stream, on hold >> >> In the everything flows and steady go of the world. >> >> >> >> >> >> --Seamus Heaney. Electric Light, 2001. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========================================== >> >> >> David Graham >> >> >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> >> >> Home Page: >> >> >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> >> >> Poetry Library: >> >> >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> >> >> ========================================== >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 12:50:20 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:50:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Library Message-ID: My online Poetry Library has been dormant for some time, for a variety of technical and other reasons. Many dead links. Many gaps in coverage. That's where you come in, oh poetry experts. One of my summer projects will be to spiff up, edit, and add to my pages. Suggestions welcome. (Also notification of any dead links you find.) I've already begun the process of cleaning things up, but will probably be at it a while. Anway, I'm always looking for critical articles on poetry, archives of online poems, pages devoted to classic & contemporary figures, "toolbox" sites such as rhyming dictionaries, organizations devoted to poetry, etc. URLs for my pages are in my signature below. I have a home page and a library page, both with many links. One note: I like linking to people's home pages, but not when they're just advertisements for buying books, or mainly non-literary in nature. I am in favor of buying books, as it happens, but my links tend to favor those sites that have generous samples of poems, critical articles, and other informative comment. One further note: So far, I've not moved into the blog world, either. Unsure whether that's a base I need to cover, since most blogs have lengthy lists of links to other blogs already. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 13 13:18:07 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:18:07 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Everything is dark . . . References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com><006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY><648208b60604130914r6c8961e3w8ca0abfb6d666652@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b601c65f1e$3c6a60e0$538d3052@ANNY> X Across the twilight's violet His curtained window glimmers gold; Oh happy light that round my love Can fold. Oh happy book within his hand, Oh happy page he glorifies, Oh happy little word beneath His eyes. But oh, thrice happy, happy I Who love him more than songs can tell, For in the heaven of his heart I dwell. Young Love - Sara Teasdale for the entire poem: http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/books/teasdale/helen02.html#41 (I think this last stanza is also the best) >>> >>> From: "James Cervantes" >>> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:11 PM >>> >>> >>>> for this one student, who seems to think there are no "happy" poems, >>>> though I suspect her idea of "happy" is one click shy of a Hallmark >>>> card. Could anyone suggest a poem or two that are one or two clicks >>>> the other side of a Hallmark card. You know, something along the >>>> lines of William Stafford or Naomi Shihab Nye with the munchies? >>>> >>>> -- Jim >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ >>>> http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html >>>> Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 13 13:28:33 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:28:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Library References: Message-ID: <00bf01c65f1f$b1a233a0$538d3052@ANNY> Hi David, I will also be working on links, not now, but hopefully during the summer when I am not in the water, this all hopefully, but check this out, I found it today: http://www2.sas.ac.uk/warburg/mnemosyne/Gateway.htm#ART and yes, if you wish to link my Poets' Corner, I would thank you, From: "David Graham" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:50 PM > My online Poetry Library has been dormant for some time, for a variety of > technical and other reasons. Many dead links. Many gaps in coverage. > > That's where you come in, oh poetry experts. One of my summer projects > will > be to spiff up, edit, and add to my pages. Suggestions welcome. (Also > notification of any dead links you find.) > > I've already begun the process of cleaning things up, but will probably be > at it a while. > > Anway, I'm always looking for critical articles on poetry, archives of > online poems, pages devoted to classic & contemporary figures, "toolbox" > sites such as rhyming dictionaries, organizations devoted to poetry, etc. > > URLs for my pages are in my signature below. I have a home page and a > library page, both with many links. > > One note: I like linking to people's home pages, but not when they're > just > advertisements for buying books, or mainly non-literary in nature. I am in > favor of buying books, as it happens, but my links tend to favor those > sites > that have generous samples of poems, critical articles, and other > informative comment. > > One further note: So far, I've not moved into the blog world, either. > Unsure whether that's a base I need to cover, since most blogs have > lengthy > lists of links to other blogs already. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 13:27:31 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:27:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: Message-ID: <007d01c65f1f$8c1a0c20$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: Heaney Gee, Bob, why do you ask? I thought it an interesting question. Many mainstream critics ask it about various poets. Why do you (apparently find it uninteresting? Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 14:48:45 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:48:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <007d01c65f1f$8c1a0c20$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I don't find it an uninteresting question, necessarily, but, in the present case, merely predictable. In any case, no one that I know of had been talking about whether Heaney's style has changed over time, so I guess that's your topic to develop, if you choose. ------------------------------- On 4/13/06 12:27 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > >> >> Gee, Bob, why do you ask? >> >> >> I thought it an interesting question. Many mainstream critics ask it about >> various poets. Why do you (apparently find it uninteresting? >> >> >> >> Bob G. >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 14:50:35 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:50:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Library References: Message-ID: <00e701c65f2b$2667d810$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I'll be glad to help, David. I love your site. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: "NewPoetry" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Library > My online Poetry Library has been dormant for some time, for a variety of > technical and other reasons. Many dead links. Many gaps in coverage. > > That's where you come in, oh poetry experts. One of my summer projects > will > be to spiff up, edit, and add to my pages. Suggestions welcome. (Also > notification of any dead links you find.) > > I've already begun the process of cleaning things up, but will probably be > at it a while. > > Anway, I'm always looking for critical articles on poetry, archives of > online poems, pages devoted to classic & contemporary figures, "toolbox" > sites such as rhyming dictionaries, organizations devoted to poetry, etc. > > URLs for my pages are in my signature below. I have a home page and a > library page, both with many links. > > One note: I like linking to people's home pages, but not when they're > just > advertisements for buying books, or mainly non-literary in nature. I am in > favor of buying books, as it happens, but my links tend to favor those > sites > that have generous samples of poems, critical articles, and other > informative comment. > > One further note: So far, I've not moved into the blog world, either. > Unsure whether that's a base I need to cover, since most blogs have > lengthy > lists of links to other blogs already. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 14:50:54 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:50:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Library In-Reply-To: <00bf01c65f1f$b1a233a0$538d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: Anny, somewhere on my hard disk I probably have your Poets' Corner URL saved, unless it was lost in my recent OS meltdown, which deprived me of many bookmarks and such. But why not remind me of it now? David On 4/13/06 12:28 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > and yes, if you wish to link my Poets' Corner, I would thank you, ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 14:57:33 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:57:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Everything is dark . . . In-Reply-To: <00b601c65f1e$3c6a60e0$538d3052@ANNY> References: <648208b60604130811h311da850i787a654f1b1a7e32@mail.gmail.com> <006f01c65f13$38b4d3f0$538d3052@ANNY> <648208b60604130914r6c8961e3w8ca0abfb6d666652@mail.gmail.com> <00b601c65f1e$3c6a60e0$538d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60604131157r2f89580ag4b28c618516617de@mail.gmail.com> Of course! Good ole S.T.. She's upchuck full of them. - Jim On 4/13/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > X > > Across the twilight's violet > His curtained window glimmers gold; > Oh happy light that round my love > Can fold. > > Oh happy book within his hand, > Oh happy page he glorifies, > Oh happy little word beneath > His eyes. > > But oh, thrice happy, happy I > Who love him more than songs can tell, > For in the heaven of his heart > I dwell. > > > Young Love - Sara Teasdale > for the entire poem: > http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/books/teasdale/helen02.html#41 > (I think this last stanza is also the best) > > From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Apr 13 07:56:23 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:56:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] First Things Message-ID: I may have overstated the need for poems submitted to First Things to be informed by a religious sensibility. Here's a comment from a poet reader of the journal named Julia Stoner to other poets on a poetry board we both frequent regarding submitting poetry to First Things: " . . .you might consider submitting even if you don't consider your work to be particularly 'religious'. I've seen them print some beautiful poems exploring nature, death, compassion, and other themes, which had nary a deity mentioned." From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 15:04:07 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:04:07 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Library In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60604131204v7b5c7847jae060b7e4f706010@mail.gmail.com> Alas, I didn't check to see if you might already have this one. But, it's goofy fun: http://www.neologisms.us/ to which I've contributed: blowstarch: a person whose utterances are loud, fiery, and have a stiffening effect on any conversation. - Jim On 4/13/06, David Graham wrote: > My online Poetry Library has been dormant for some time, for a variety of > technical and other reasons. Many dead links. Many gaps in coverage. > > That's where you come in, oh poetry experts. One of my summer projects will > be to spiff up, edit, and add to my pages. Suggestions welcome. (Also > notification of any dead links you find.) > > I've already begun the process of cleaning things up, but will probably be > at it a while. > > Anway, I'm always looking for critical articles on poetry, archives of > online poems, pages devoted to classic & contemporary figures, "toolbox" > sites such as rhyming dictionaries, organizations devoted to poetry, etc. > > URLs for my pages are in my signature below. I have a home page and a > library page, both with many links. > > One note: I like linking to people's home pages, but not when they're just > advertisements for buying books, or mainly non-literary in nature. I am in > favor of buying books, as it happens, but my links tend to favor those sites > that have generous samples of poems, critical articles, and other > informative comment. > > One further note: So far, I've not moved into the blog world, either. > Unsure whether that's a base I need to cover, since most blogs have lengthy > lists of links to other blogs already. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 13 15:52:13 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:52:13 +0200 Subject: Fw: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Library Message-ID: <012801c65f33$c3276eb0$538d3052@ANNY> Thank you here is the link to the Poets' Corner: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome and the link to the main index: http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content and here is for a Merry Christmas (since my headache after the pill -not Alka Seltzer- disappeared...: ObjectGraph Dictionary http://www.objectgraph.com/dictionary/ Dictionary.hm http://www.dictionary.hm/ rhymezone.com http://www.rhymezone.com/ WordReference.com English Dictionary http://www.wordreference.com/definition/documentation OneLook dictionary http://www.onelook.com/ Thesaurus.com http://thesaurus.reference.com/ Online Etimology Dictionary: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ditto The Eggcorn Database http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ Excellent English-German dictionary: LEO: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&search=Verpflichtung and the Duden family (mainly for Hal, and our German English friend...) http://www.duden.de/ Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid http://archives.nd.edu/latgramm.htm Glossaries: Terms used in Competition related matters: http://europa.eu.int/comm/competition/general_info/glossary_en.html#top Corning Museum of Glass http://www.cmog.org/index.asp?pageId=687#P1 Terminologia Botanica http://natura.provincia.cuneo.it/flora/terminologia_botanica.htm abc balletto http://xoomer.virgilio.it/lillial2004/passiefigure.htm psi / glossary of terms http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/ or Kenneth Hirst's Metaphysical Reference: http://home.att.net/~ag2kh/contenta.htm and in Italian by me: http://home.att.net/~mstaique/Italian/contenta.htm culturitalia http://culturitalia.uibk.ac.at/wb/WB_it.asp From: "David Graham" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:50 PM > Anny, somewhere on my hard disk I probably have your Poets' Corner URL > saved, unless it was lost in my recent OS meltdown, which deprived me of > many bookmarks and such. But why not remind me of it now? > > David > > > On 4/13/06 12:28 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > >> and yes, if you wish to link my Poets' Corner, I would thank you, > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 16:44:09 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:44:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper References: <2f8.332ff0b.316fb9d6@aol.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c65f3b$03ba0670$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> How about poetry as unsystematic oversimplification? ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:27 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper "Science may be described as the art of systematic oversimplification." ?Karl Popper, The Logic of Scientific Discovery (1957) "Criticism may be described as the art of systematic oversimplification." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 17:06:43 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:06:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Message-ID: <3b3.232874.31701763@aol.com> In a message dated 4/13/2006 2:49:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: In any case, no one that I know of had been talking about whether Heaney's style has changed over time, so I guess that's your topic to develop, if you choose. I'll chime in. I'd say that 'Perch' poem was much more impressionistic than the earlier hard-reality minded Heaney. Now of course subject matter plays a part in the delivery of the language, but I don't know if you'd see much free floating language and elusiveness in the period from Death of a Naturalist thru Haw Lantern. Style sticks. I guess it's hard for any poet to shed a signature style. Not that he/she should have to or could without damage to other parts of the poetry, like essential subject matter, approach/perspective, emotional engagement, imagery, etc., all of which are inextricably entwined in what we term style. In the case of Heaney, it's a been a durable style based on word lust and emotional investment. He's produced a fairly wide range of poems both in terms of subject and form. If you looked at the last 20 years of Levine or Merwin, you wouldn't see nearly the variety you get in Heaney. Speaking of Irish poets, I hear Evan Boland read last night at UConn. Hope to gather some thought into a dispatch. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 17:08:47 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:08:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper Message-ID: <37c.65c0cb.317017df@aol.com> In a message dated 4/13/2006 4:44:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: How about poetry as unsystematic oversimplification? ----- Original Message ----- or how about unsystematic obfuscation? Finnegan http://ursprache.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 17:16:08 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:16:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: Message-ID: <00ef01c65f3f$7be26210$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: Heaney I don't find it an uninteresting question, necessarily, but, in the present case, merely predictable. In any case, no one that I know of had been talking about whether Heaney's style has changed over time, so I guess that's your topic to develop, if you choose. I can't because I don't know Heaney's work well enough. The topic, as you know, is one I bring up a lot, or used to. But I thought of it this time because of the thread on what's contemporaneous. It would be silly to say that a living poet was not writing contemporary poetry, but what would someong writing the same kind of poetry he was writing before the rolling fifty years James thinks covers what is "contemporary?" I doubt Heaney has been writing that long (for publication) but he soon will have been. And I am personally fascinated by the creative process, particularly of the difference in the way it works with people like Heaney, and with people like Joyce. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 17:30:17 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:30:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <00ef01c65f3f$7be26210$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Interestingly, on The Page website that I posted yesterday, there's a new review of Heaney that takes up this subject explicitly--Heaney's stylistic development. The reviewer feels that Heaney has returned in his new book to an earthier style, which he finds at times to be a mixed blessing. http://www.newstatesman.com/Bookshop/200604170037 Here's a snippet: "Though Heaney's poetry is always worth reading, it is less consistent than is commonly supposed. He has striking moments of arrival, the most impressive being the two books I have named. Many of the intervening books - and this was especially true of his last, Electric Light - are in danger of marking time. He can seem cornered by his own genius: writing too many poems that emulate past successes, and shutting off the routes to discovery. He has written of words "as physical sensations . . . as weights on the tongue" and the music of his verse might be called tactile. Too often, however, this knack becomes mere reflex. In his new collection, District and Circle, he writes of ". . . the scut and scat of cones in winter,/So rattle-skinned, so fossil-brittle". And yes, it's a beautiful effect, but with too much the feeling of "this is what I can do". When he really makes a discovery, it is often by avoiding the lyrical. I suspect this explains the presence in District and Circle of "stanzas" of heightened prose (some of it "found prose") and passages of versified conversation." --Clive Wilmer ========================================= On 4/13/06 4:16 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > >> >> I don't find it an uninteresting question, necessarily, but, in the present >> case, merely predictable. In any case, no one that I know of had been >> talking about whether Heaney's style has changed over time, so I guess that's >> your topic to develop, if you choose. >> >> I can't because I don't know Heaney's work well enough. The topic, as you >> know, is one I bring up a lot, or used to. But I thought of it this time >> because of the thread on what's contemporaneous. It would be silly to say >> that a living poet was not writing contemporary poetry, but what would >> someong writing the same kind of poetry he was writing before the rolling >> fifty years James thinks covers what is "contemporary?" I doubt Heaney has >> been writing that long (for publication) but he soon will have been. >> >> >> >> And I am personally fascinated by the creative process, particularly of the >> difference in the way it works with people like Heaney, and with people like >> Joyce. >> >> >> >> --Bob G. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Apr 13 17:59:40 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:59:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alice Friman Message-ID: Is this a first? Today the same poet & same book is featured on both Poetry Daily and Verse Daily. A good poet, too: Alice Friman. http://www.poems.com/today_lo.htm http://www.versedaily.org/ ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From c288 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 13 18:32:47 2006 From: c288 at hotmail.com (Charmaine Pettit) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:32:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 19:05:00 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:05:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper References: <37c.65c0cb.317017df@aol.com> Message-ID: <016201c65f4e$b1211160$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Seriously, I don't think anything in words can avoid being oversimplification. I think I might go on to say that we can't live without oversimplification. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper In a message dated 4/13/2006 4:44:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: How about poetry as unsystematic oversimplification? ----- Original Message ----- or how about unsystematic obfuscation? Finnegan http://ursprache.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 19:33:36 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:33:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: Message-ID: <018b01c65f52$b0562370$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: HeaneyGood essay. James's thoughts made sense, too. I wonder if there are two kinds of artists: one kind using (to oversimplify) the same kind of palette, canvas and brushes to paint a wide variety of subjects and moods, the other using all kinds of palettes, canvases and brushes to paint pretty much the same subject. I think I don't know enough about any artist to be able easily to put him into one of these categories. Picasso in the second? Heaney in the first? Could we say Joyce used a wide variety of implements to portray little more than the life of the artist, and of the Common Man? That Shakespeare covered all kinds of moods and subjects with a fairly standard dramatic form (though I know there are Shakespeare scholars who believe his play-structures went through earth-shaking changes)? My guess is that I'm almost surely wrong, but that there do seem to be artists who would fit the first category much more readily than the second, and artists the opposite. Also artists who use the same forms and tools on the same subject matter all their lives, and--I suppose--super artists who covered a great deal of territory and used all kinds of equipment, as well. --Bob G., with an overflow of bloggery Interestingly, on The Page website that I posted yesterday, there's a new review of Heaney that takes up this subject explicitly--Heaney's stylistic development. The reviewer feels that Heaney has returned in his new book to an earthier style, which he finds at times to be a mixed blessing. http://www.newstatesman.com/Bookshop/200604170037 Here's a snippet: "Though Heaney's poetry is always worth reading, it is less consistent than is commonly supposed. He has striking moments of arrival, the most impressive being the two books I have named. Many of the intervening books - and this was especially true of his last, Electric Light - are in danger of marking time. He can seem cornered by his own genius: writing too many poems that emulate past successes, and shutting off the routes to discovery. He has written of words "as physical sensations . . . as weights on the tongue" and the music of his verse might be called tactile. Too often, however, this knack becomes mere reflex. In his new collection, District and Circle, he writes of ". . . the scut and scat of cones in winter,/So rattle-skinned, so fossil-brittle". And yes, it's a beautiful effect, but with too much the feeling of "this is what I can do". When he really makes a discovery, it is often by avoiding the lyrical. I suspect this explains the presence in District and Circle of "stanzas" of heightened prose (some of it "found prose") and passages of versified conversation." --Clive Wilmer ========================================= On 4/13/06 4:16 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: I don't find it an uninteresting question, necessarily, but, in the present case, merely predictable. In any case, no one that I know of had been talking about whether Heaney's style has changed over time, so I guess that's your topic to develop, if you choose. I can't because I don't know Heaney's work well enough. The topic, as you know, is one I bring up a lot, or used to. But I thought of it this time because of the thread on what's contemporaneous. It would be silly to say that a living poet was not writing contemporary poetry, but what would someong writing the same kind of poetry he was writing before the rolling fifty years James thinks covers what is "contemporary?" I doubt Heaney has been writing that long (for publication) but he soon will have been. And I am personally fascinated by the creative process, particularly of the difference in the way it works with people like Heaney, and with people like Joyce. --Bob G. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 20:09:17 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:09:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry MIA again Message-ID: <2f0.3d45599.3170422d@aol.com> _http://www.dailyadvance.com/featr/content/features/stories/2006/04/12/2006041 2edapoetry.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=5_ (http://www.dailyadvance.com/featr/content/features/stories/2006/04/12/20060412edapoetry.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7 &cxcat=5) what happened to poetry? Where did it go? "There's several dimensions to that issue," says author and Elizabeth City State University professor of literature Stephen March. "From a publisher's standpoint, there is no money in publishing collections (of poetry). There's not enough sales." There are a few publishing houses, March says, who will publish the collections of well-known, contemporary poets. But even then, it's understood that those books will not reach popular cultural status. Over the past handful of decades, forms of expression in popular culture have found a new home in film, television and music. And music, March says, may be poetry's salvation, in a sense. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 20:16:17 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:16:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper Message-ID: <325.2022166.317043d1@aol.com> In a message dated 4/13/2006 7:05:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Seriously, I don't think anything in words can avoid being oversimplification. I think I might go on to say that we can't live without oversimplification Bob, I believe the opposite...the seemingly simplest and most clear of statements when contextualized within a poem is fraught with language history, connotations and allusions, and possible inflections. How much ink has been spent on 'simple poems' by Williams Carlos Williams and E.E. Cummings (one of your favs), for example? No one expects to understand Pound; everyone thinks he knows Williams. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 20:19:25 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:19:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] References: Message-ID: <01f401c65f59$1696afa0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I recommended "Crossing the Bar" for the funeral of a friend's father who was an old Navy man, and that turned out to be appropriate. I think there's a lot of Wordsworth that can convey that feeling. You really want something that will celebrate life, more than something mournful, and Wordsworth can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charmaine Pettit To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:32 PM Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] I am looking for a poem to be read at a good friend's eulogy. Any suggestions to steer me in a meaningful and profound direction?? Thank you in advance. Charmaine Pettit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See if you've won, play MSN Search and Win ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 20:20:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper References: <37c.65c0cb.317017df@aol.com> <016201c65f4e$b1211160$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <020301c65f59$36054180$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Didn't Nietzche say something to the effect that anything we can put into words is already dead inside us? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper Seriously, I don't think anything in words can avoid being oversimplification. I think I might go on to say that we can't live without oversimplification. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper In a message dated 4/13/2006 4:44:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: How about poetry as unsystematic oversimplification? ----- Original Message ----- or how about unsystematic obfuscation? Finnegan http://ursprache.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 20:21:24 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:21:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: <018b01c65f52$b0562370$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <021201c65f59$5d2c7300$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: HeaneyI probably should bite my tongue off rather than saying this, but...I think you're right, Bob. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Good essay. James's thoughts made sense, too. I wonder if there are two kinds of artists: one kind using (to oversimplify) the same kind of palette, canvas and brushes to paint a wide variety of subjects and moods, the other using all kinds of palettes, canvases and brushes to paint pretty much the same subject. I think I don't know enough about any artist to be able easily to put him into one of these categories. Picasso in the second? Heaney in the first? Could we say Joyce used a wide variety of implements to portray little more than the life of the artist, and of the Common Man? That Shakespeare covered all kinds of moods and subjects with a fairly standard dramatic form (though I know there are Shakespeare scholars who believe his play-structures went through earth-shaking changes)? My guess is that I'm almost surely wrong, but that there do seem to be artists who would fit the first category much more readily than the second, and artists the opposite. Also artists who use the same forms and tools on the same subject matter all their lives, and--I suppose--super artists who covered a great deal of territory and used all kinds of equipment, as well. --Bob G., with an overflow of bloggery Interestingly, on The Page website that I posted yesterday, there's a new review of Heaney that takes up this subject explicitly--Heaney's stylistic development. The reviewer feels that Heaney has returned in his new book to an earthier style, which he finds at times to be a mixed blessing. http://www.newstatesman.com/Bookshop/200604170037 Here's a snippet: "Though Heaney's poetry is always worth reading, it is less consistent than is commonly supposed. He has striking moments of arrival, the most impressive being the two books I have named. Many of the intervening books - and this was especially true of his last, Electric Light - are in danger of marking time. He can seem cornered by his own genius: writing too many poems that emulate past successes, and shutting off the routes to discovery. He has written of words "as physical sensations . . . as weights on the tongue" and the music of his verse might be called tactile. Too often, however, this knack becomes mere reflex. In his new collection, District and Circle, he writes of ". . . the scut and scat of cones in winter,/So rattle-skinned, so fossil-brittle". And yes, it's a beautiful effect, but with too much the feeling of "this is what I can do". When he really makes a discovery, it is often by avoiding the lyrical. I suspect this explains the presence in District and Circle of "stanzas" of heightened prose (some of it "found prose") and passages of versified conversation." --Clive Wilmer ========================================= On 4/13/06 4:16 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: I don't find it an uninteresting question, necessarily, but, in the present case, merely predictable. In any case, no one that I know of had been talking about whether Heaney's style has changed over time, so I guess that's your topic to develop, if you choose. I can't because I don't know Heaney's work well enough. The topic, as you know, is one I bring up a lot, or used to. But I thought of it this time because of the thread on what's contemporaneous. It would be silly to say that a living poet was not writing contemporary poetry, but what would someong writing the same kind of poetry he was writing before the rolling fifty years James thinks covers what is "contemporary?" I doubt Heaney has been writing that long (for publication) but he soon will have been. And I am personally fascinated by the creative process, particularly of the difference in the way it works with people like Heaney, and with people like Joyce. --Bob G. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 20:38:23 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:38:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry MIA again References: <2f0.3d45599.3170422d@aol.com> Message-ID: <001301c65f5b$bd6ba950$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Stephen March just found this out? ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry MIA again http://www.dailyadvance.com/featr/content/features/stories/2006/04/12/20060412edapoetry.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=5 what happened to poetry? Where did it go? "There's several dimensions to that issue," says author and Elizabeth City State University professor of literature Stephen March. "From a publisher's standpoint, there is no money in publishing collections (of poetry). There's not enough sales." There are a few publishing houses, March says, who will publish the collections of well-known, contemporary poets. But even then, it's understood that those books will not reach popular cultural status. Over the past handful of decades, forms of expression in popular culture have found a new home in film, television and music. And music, March says, may be poetry's salvation, in a sense. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 21:20:50 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:20:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Library Message-ID: <35f.2667e7a.317052f2@aol.com> _http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~tpl/lit.html_ (http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~tpl/lit.html) _http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~tpl/lit/poetry.html_ (http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~tpl/lit/poetry.html) Have you got Tim Love's site about sites? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 21:48:58 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:48:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: <018b01c65f52$b0562370$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <021201c65f59$5d2c7300$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <01e101c65f65$98fcd580$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: HeaneyI probably should bite my tongue off rather than saying this, but...I think you're right, Bob. Well, Mole, I'm trying very hard to be sensible--instead of pushing too hard for a position because I don't think it's getting its fair due (and instead of answering others' snipes every chance I get). --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 22:00:55 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:00:55 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper References: <325.2022166.317043d1@aol.com> Message-ID: <01f701c65f67$44f2f080$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Seriously, I don't think anything in words can avoid being oversimplification. I think I might go on to say that we can't live without oversimplification Bob, I believe the opposite...the seemingly simplest and most clear of statements when contextualized within a poem is fraught with language history, connotations and allusions, and possible inflections. How much ink has been spent on 'simple poems' by Williams Carlos Williams and E.E. Cummings (one of your favs), for example? No one expects to understand Pound; everyone thinks he knows Williams. Finnegan Right, but every word is an over-simplification of reality. I think the best poets are those that oversimplify the most reality with the fewest words. A paradox? I don't think so. As everyone knows, I think "lighght" is extraordinarily expressive about light and grammar and much else, but everything it says is an over-simplification--in the sense that no words, however well-used, can give a person anything like the full experience of light. They can only suggest that. Not that a poem about light must necessarily be inferior to real light. I would claim it can give something real light can't: real light's meaning. But that meaning is over-simplified in the poem--its unsimplification will happen in the mind of the engagent. Am I making sense. I sure don't know, but I seem to be in my babble zone for some reason today. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From snakecharmer at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 22:01:14 2006 From: snakecharmer at gmail.com (Donna Casinghino) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:01:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A thought for Beckett's 100th birthday In-Reply-To: <001001c65f06$8efa2b00$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <332.2827005.316fb5b8@aol.com> <001001c65f06$8efa2b00$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <33abf2750604131901x90bba15gdcab453b86a8965b@mail.gmail.com> That's it? That can't be it. I'm still waiting here. On 4/13/06, TheOldMole wrote: > > Nothing to be done. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- ------------------------------------------------- Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under 't. --Macbeth I:v -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 22:03:08 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:03:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper References: <37c.65c0cb.317017df@aol.com><016201c65f4e$b1211160$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <020301c65f59$36054180$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <020b01c65f67$94915320$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Didn't Nietzche say something to the effect that anything we can put into words is already dead inside us? It does sound like Freddy. My retort would be that anything we can't put into words is dead outside us. --Bob (a big fan of Nietzsche, by the way) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 13 22:06:14 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:06:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry MIA again References: <2f0.3d45599.3170422d@aol.com> Message-ID: <021a01c65f68$03b63c70$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> what happened to poetry? Where did it go? "There's several dimensions to that issue," says author and Elizabeth City State University professor of literature Stephen March. "From a publisher's standpoint, there is no money in publishing collections (of poetry). There's not enough sales." There are a few publishing houses, March says, who will publish the collections of well-known, contemporary poets. But even then, it's understood that those books will not reach popular cultural status. Over the past handful of decades, forms of expression in popular culture have found a new home in film, television and music. And music, March says, may be poetry's salvation, in a sense. Seems to me the computer will save poetry--by allowing cheap publishing-on-demand and almost free Internet publication. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpaul at mallasch.com Thu Apr 13 22:07:02 2006 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:07:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry MIA again In-Reply-To: <001301c65f5b$bd6ba950$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <2f0.3d45599.3170422d@aol.com> <001301c65f5b$bd6ba950$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <20060413210547.V82601@kpaul.spinweb.net> poetry is hiding in the corners on the 'net. may it rest for a decade or two more from the bore of luchre & love of luchre may the poets continue talking directly with their readers ever and ever amen. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, TheOldMole wrote: > Stephen March just found this out? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:09 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry MIA again > > > http://www.dailyadvance.com/featr/content/features/stories/2006/04/12/20060412edapoetry.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=5 > > what happened to poetry? Where did it go? > > "There's several dimensions to that issue," says author and Elizabeth City State University professor of literature Stephen March. "From a publisher's standpoint, there is no money in publishing collections (of poetry). There's not enough sales." > > There are a few publishing houses, March says, who will publish the collections of well-known, contemporary poets. But even then, it's understood that those books will not reach popular cultural status. > > Over the past handful of decades, forms of expression in popular culture have found a new home in film, television and music. And music, March says, may be poetry's salvation, in a sense. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 13 22:11:46 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:11:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] A thought for Beckett's 100th birthday References: <332.2827005.316fb5b8@aol.com><001001c65f06$8efa2b00$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <33abf2750604131901x90bba15gdcab453b86a8965b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a001c65f68$c88c1920$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Come back tomorrow. ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Casinghino To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] A thought for Beckett's 100th birthday That's it? That can't be it. I'm still waiting here. On 4/13/06, TheOldMole wrote: Nothing to be done. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- ------------------------------------------------- Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under 't. --Macbeth I:v ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 13 22:16:52 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:16:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fire Of Alexandria Message-ID: The Fire Of Alexandria In a suburb outside of D.C. a young punk was keying code, creating an insidious spark that would fire-wire across the world. It burned through server farms from Cupertino to Kuala Lampur, it fried hard drives or forced them to disgorge gigs of backup, it ping-ponged through networks near and far, turned fiber optic strands back into ropes of sand, set the fuse of an event horizon, ultimate meltdown, blackhole scenario, the nand gates thrown open, at the machine level the 1?s began to pillage, to rape the 0?s, all was lost. What it could not gag, it garbled, scrambled into symbolic garbage. Years ago the books had been shelved in landfills, and now all the screens flashed once and went blank. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 13 23:11:23 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:11:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper In-Reply-To: <016201c65f4e$b1211160$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <37c.65c0cb.317017df@aol.com> <016201c65f4e$b1211160$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: I'd say we can't live w/o simplification, but could well do w/o oversimplification. Hal "What do I know of man's destiny? I could tell you more about radishes." --Samuel Beckett Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 13, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Seriously, I don't think anything in words can avoid being > oversimplification. I think I might go on to say that we can't > live without oversimplification. > > --Bob G. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JforJames at aol.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper > > In a message dated 4/13/2006 4:44:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > How about poetry as unsystematic oversimplification? > ----- Original Message ----- > or how about unsystematic obfuscation? > > > > > Finnegan > > http://ursprache.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Apr 14 07:36:56 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:36:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Turning Popper References: <37c.65c0cb.317017df@aol.com><016201c65f4e$b1211160$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <004b01c65fb7$bcafce90$20b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'd say we can't live w/o simplification, but could well do w/o oversimplification. Hal I suppose, but I was talking about over-simplification in the sense that science was described in the first post to this thread as an over-simplification. That is, I was misusing the term the same way the person James was quoting on science was. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 07:58:01 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 04:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] A thought for Beckett's 100th birthday In-Reply-To: <00a001c65f68$c88c1920$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <20060414115801.12342.qmail@web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anyway, its Beckett?s anniversary. I was switching between channels this morning. On one channel footage from the National Theatre, London, and pictures by John Minahan of Beckett. Then that terrible, lined face of his and the hair swept up like a cockatoo when the words ?he suffered without bitterness?popped into my head, maybe from a bio of Beckett I?d formerly read. Then I switched channel and a German film crew was in the Philippines filming a crucifixion and flagellants also beating themselves with chains or bits of coconut twine or both and the whole thing seemed a festival of suffering. Disconnected images of some end time or prelude: Beckett?s face etched with suffering, the flagellants, the Centurion half-heartedly hammering rubber nails into the hand of a stand-in Jesus. It seems to me that the people of this world are half in awe of suffering, half in love with it or wishing to emulate suffering or be part of it. When most sensible people would rather avoid it. PM __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 08:25:42 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <3b3.232874.31701763@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060414122542.84155.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think my thoughts on ?Death of a Naturalist?or any other Heaney poem is that its all so GCSE syllabus. Seemingly poetry constructed in advance for its own reception, its necessary humanism, the sounds of crick and crack, the iron slippings of shite and sounds etc etc. Heaney cannot get close to understanding the roots of violence or the roots of anything because this was never his purpose. Just the reception. Although he undoubtedly lived through the worst days of the ?troubles?and then absconded to Dublin. Fair enough but why does he expect our heartfelt thoughts? --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/13/2006 2:49:53 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > > In any case, no one that I know of had been talking > about whether Heaney's > style has changed over time, so I guess that's your > topic to develop, if you > choose. > > > I'll chime in. I'd say that 'Perch' poem was much > more impressionistic > than the earlier hard-reality minded Heaney. Now of > course subject matter > plays a part in the delivery of the language, but I > don't know if you'd see > much free floating language and elusiveness in the > period from Death of a > Naturalist thru Haw Lantern. > > Style sticks. I guess it's hard for any poet to shed > a signature style. Not > that > he/she should have to or could without damage to > other parts of the poetry, > like essential subject matter, approach/perspective, > emotional engagement, > imagery, > etc., all of which are inextricably entwined in what > we term style. In the > case of Heaney, > it's a been a durable style based on word lust and > emotional investment. > He's > produced a fairly wide range of poems both in terms > of subject and form. If > you > looked at the last 20 years of Levine or Merwin, you > wouldn't see nearly the > variety > you get in Heaney. > > Speaking of Irish poets, I hear Evan Boland read > last night at UConn. Hope > to gather some thought into a dispatch. > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Apr 14 10:35:09 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:35:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <20060414122542.84155.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060414122542.84155.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've seen this line of criticism against Heaney for many years, and I confess I don't fully understand it. Of course, I am not immersed the the cross-currents of UK & Irish politics, which I see only at a distance, and that may partly explain why Heaney seems even more popular in the US than closer to his home. (There may well be other factors, too.) But I've never quite figured out why there is such bile directed against his work, which often seems to widen to condescension and scorn for his equable personality. In any event, the charges appear to be: (1) Heaney's a "humanist," as opposed to a political advocate for specific positions; (2) Heaney is bourgeois in sensibility; (3) Heaney is poetically "safe," taking no aesthetic or thematic "risks" in his writing; and (4) Heaney is somehow a poseur, all urbanity and no substance. I say I don't fully understand the bile because even if all charges are true, that would mean Heaney's more or less harmless, hardly worth getting exercised about. Of course, he's also been extremely well awarded, and from a very early age, so I understand how he may be a lightning rod for all sorts of discontent, jealousy, and frustration. Beyond that, numbers (4)and (2) each strike me as essentially unarguable. A pose is in the eye of the beholder, and so is the value of one's sensibility. (3) is essentially a disagreement over poetics, not politics, deriving from a position which "privileges," as they say, the latter over the former. (1) is quite accurate, and hardly a matter of deception or pose, since Heaney's been very clear for a very long time about his aesthetic position. He is a humanist, and that's not much in dispute, though I could argue that he's not a simple-minded one. It might be worth arguing whether or not being a humanist is a bad thing, I suppose. . . . On Apr 14, 2006, at 7:25 AM, Paul Murphy wrote: > I think my thoughts on ?Death of a Naturalist?or any > other Heaney poem is that its all so GCSE syllabus. > Seemingly poetry constructed in advance for its own > reception, its necessary humanism, the sounds of crick > and crack, the iron slippings of shite and sounds etc > etc. Heaney cannot get close to understanding the > roots of violence or the roots of anything because > this was never his purpose. Just the reception. > Although he undoubtedly lived through the worst days > of the ?troubles?and then absconded to Dublin. Fair > enough but why does he expect our heartfelt thoughts? > ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 14 11:32:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:32:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Message-ID: <3b4.3af740.31711a70@aol.com> In a message dated 4/14/2006 10:34:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: constructed in advance for its own reception, That's a pretty good definition for what a poem is supposed to be/do. Language organized and presented for effect. Of course there is a lot of jagged-lined jottings and journaling masquerading as poetry. This is what I'm thinking about today and, heh, it's even broken into lines. The other thing I would say for Heaney is that when you read his poetry you actually get the feeling he knows some history, philosophy, world religion, politics, natural history, etc. It's an erudition that he wears easily and not as a lordly mantle. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 14 11:33:28 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:33:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Message-ID: <31b.2d58c68.31711ac8@aol.com> That was Paul's comment not David's... constructed in advance for its own reception, That's a pretty good definition for what a poem is supposed to be/do. Language organized and presented for effect. Of course there is a lot of jagged-lined jottings and journaling masquerading as poetry. This is what I'm thinking about today and, heh, it's even broken into lines. The other thing I would say for Heaney is that when you read his poetry you actually get the feeling he knows some history, philosophy, world religion, politics, natural history, etc. It's an erudition that he wears easily and not as a lordly mantle. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Apr 14 11:37:57 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:37:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fire Of Alexandria In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60604140837p3362ff06r2a70c7b1705278d4@mail.gmail.com> Spooky. - Jim On 4/13/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > The Fire Of Alexandria > > In a suburb outside of D.C. > a young punk was keying code, > creating an insidious spark > that would fire-wire across the world. > It burned through server farms > from Cupertino to Kuala Lampur, > it fried hard drives or forced > them to disgorge gigs of backup, > it ping-ponged through networks > near and far, turned fiber optic strands > back into ropes of sand, set the fuse > of an event horizon, ultimate meltdown, > blackhole scenario, the nand gates > thrown open, at the machine level > the 1's began to pillage, to rape the 0's, > all was lost. What it could not gag, > it garbled, scrambled into symbolic garbage. > Years ago the books had been shelved > in landfills, and now all the screens > flashed once and went blank. > > > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 14 11:56:55 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:56:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Fire Of Alexandria References: <648208b60604140837p3362ff06r2a70c7b1705278d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006b01c65fdc$0e3ab490$b97c3652@ANNY> I saw a movie some years ago that practically brought back the disaster of Chernobyl to a young rich punk, justifiable because he was working under commission for the Kgb or similar, still Russian, and did not know what he was doing. He was anyhow able to create a software that blew up the system. Finally when he realized it, and noticed they were spying on him, he committed suicide. The titles gave the story for true, I do not know. The movie was freezing. From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:37 PM > Spooky. > > - Jim > > On 4/13/06, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> The Fire Of Alexandria >> >> In a suburb outside of D.C. >> a young punk was keying code, >> creating an insidious spark >> that would fire-wire across the world. >> It burned through server farms >> from Cupertino to Kuala Lampur, >> it fried hard drives or forced >> them to disgorge gigs of backup, >> it ping-ponged through networks >> near and far, turned fiber optic strands >> back into ropes of sand, set the fuse >> of an event horizon, ultimate meltdown, >> blackhole scenario, the nand gates >> thrown open, at the machine level >> the 1's began to pillage, to rape the 0's, >> all was lost. What it could not gag, >> it garbled, scrambled into symbolic garbage. >> Years ago the books had been shelved >> in landfills, and now all the screens >> flashed once and went blank. >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 14 12:17:48 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:17:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets Post Katrina Message-ID: <2e0.5fc0df1.3171252c@aol.com> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/economy/jan-june06/poetry_4-10.html# New Orleans Poets on the Jim Lehrer Hour Monday (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/economy/jan-june06/poetry_4-10.html) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Apr 14 12:25:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:25:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tornado in Iowa City Message-ID: <00a701c65fe0$055557f0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Pretty serious. I heard from Marvin Bell, saying he's OK. Tad Richards www.opus40.org http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 14 13:22:43 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:22:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the sultan of Zammbuk or some such place Message-ID: <00bd01c65fe8$0a3f74a0$b97c3652@ANNY> The sultan of Zammbuk or some such place was in London, and he was being received officially, and the conversation waned, and the conveversation waned still further and no one had anything to say, and every one grew boreder and boreder, and finally as the last monosyllable died on the last endeavouring lip, one of the company had the wit to ask the sultan about the condition of the arts in Zammbuk. And immediately the face of the sultan became illumined and he replied in words which were interpreted roughly as follows: "The arts! The arts have gone to pot". But he did not stop at this. "In my father's time" he said, "It was different. Then if we found any man who could carve beautifully he was caught at once and brought to the palace yard and kept there. He was chained, but he was given all the food and all the good drink that he wanted and all the women. And he sould sit there with his tools beside him, idle. And after a time he would take up his tools and make something beautiful . And it was taken away from him. And again he would sit idle. Idle, perhaps for days. And he was given all that he wanted. And after a time he would take up his tools and make us something else. But now the English are come thee. And they tell us that this is slavery . And they have forbidden the custom. The arts have gone to pot". So spoke the sultan of Zammbuk, and he had seen an intelligent age. Ezra Pound Selected prose 1909-1965 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 14:09:25 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <31b.2d58c68.31711ac8@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060414180925.81000.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> another thing about his poetry is that its rhyming journalism or journalese. I have no idea why a writer of his stature received the Nobel Prize or why he?s taken seriously anywhere. He hit a certain note at the height of ?the troubles?in 1970 or so. Journalists were interested in him, not because they care about poetry, but because: they found someone who writes like them, thinks like them but who is not ostensibly a journalist he was saying something about the situation that they and their paymasters wanted to hear: violence is bad it leads to despairingness is basically pointless add in the observations of a spotty undergraduate who had happened to have read ?The Portrait of an Artist?and the rest is history. Lamentable bollocks. --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > That was Paul's comment not David's... > > > constructed in advance for its own > reception, > > > > That's a pretty good definition for what a poem > is supposed to be/do. Language organized and > presented for effect. > > Of course there is a lot of jagged-lined jottings > and journaling masquerading as poetry. This > is what I'm thinking about today and, heh, it's > even broken into lines. > > The other thing I would say for Heaney is > that when you read his poetry you actually > get the feeling he knows some history, philosophy, > world religion, politics, natural history, etc. > It's an erudition that he wears easily and not > as a lordly mantle. > > Finnegan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From AlMaginnes at aol.com Fri Apr 14 14:42:47 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:42:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Message-ID: <326.215833b.31714727@aol.com> In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:09:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, clitophon at yahoo.com writes: another thing about his poetry is that its rhyming journalism or journalese. I have no idea why a writer of his stature received the Nobel Prize or why he?s taken seriously anywhere. He hit a certain note at the height of ?the troubles?in 1970 or so. Journalists were interested in him, not because they care about poetry, but because: they found someone who writes like them, thinks like them but who is not ostensibly a journalist he was saying something about the situation that they and their paymasters wanted to hear: violence is bad it leads to despairingness is basically pointless add in the observations of a spotty undergraduate who had happened to have read ?The Portrait of an Artist?and the rest is history. Lamentable bollocks. I was going to comment on the drivel above, but the author seems to have done so with his last line. "Lamentable bollocks" indeed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 14:56:36 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <326.215833b.31714727@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060414185636.29122.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> your commenting on your own drivel --- AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:09:57 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > clitophon at yahoo.com writes: > > another thing about his poetry is that its rhyming > journalism or journalese. I have no idea why a > writer > of his stature received the Nobel Prize or why he?s > taken seriously anywhere. He hit a certain note at > the height of ?the troubles?in 1970 or so. > Journalists were interested in him, not because > they > care about poetry, but because: > > they found someone who writes like them, thinks > like > them but who is not ostensibly a journalist > > he was saying something about the situation that > they > and their paymasters wanted to hear: > > violence is bad > it leads to despairingness > is basically pointless > > add in the observations of a spotty undergraduate > who > had happened to have read ?The Portrait of an > Artist?and the rest is history. > > Lamentable bollocks. > > > > I was going to comment on the drivel above, but the > author seems to have > done so with his last line. > > "Lamentable bollocks" indeed. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 14 15:06:51 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:06:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Message-ID: <395.669ca2.31714ccb@aol.com> In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:09:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, clitophon at yahoo.com writes: that its rhyming journalism or journalese. We must not be talking about the same poet. Heaney is perhaps a common name in Ireland. I haven't gotten around to the books of this other fellow. The one I'm talking about uses the kinds of words and diction that would never be mistaken for language one finds in newspapers and popular journals. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 15:16:17 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <395.669ca2.31714ccb@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060414191617.49915.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Finnegan - whoever you are - --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:09:57 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > clitophon at yahoo.com writes: > > that its rhyming > journalism or journalese. > > > We must not be talking about the same poet. Heaney > is perhaps a common name in Ireland. I haven't > gotten > around to the books of this other fellow. The one > I'm talking > about uses the kinds of words and diction that would > never be > mistaken for language one finds in newspapers and > popular > journals. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Apr 14 15:22:09 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:22:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rhyming journalism In-Reply-To: <20060414180925.81000.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060414180925.81000.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7C9DAEA8-2EB9-4D80-8A9F-E63EE3DAF8FD@ripon.edu> I really must get to Dublin sometime soon. Journalism on this side of the pond doesn't sound like this. And we Americans rhyme a bit differently, too. Song A rowan like a lipsticked girl. Between the by-road and the main road Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance Stand off among the rushes. There are the mud-flowers of dialect And the immortelles of perfect pitch And that moment when the bird sings very close To the music of what happens. Seamus Heaney On Apr 14, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Paul Murphy wrote: > another thing about his poetry is that its rhyming > journalism or journalese. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Fri Apr 14 15:28:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:28:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: <20060414191617.49915.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000e01c65ff9$95c63c50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> He's that guy who fell off the ladder and they had to have a wake for him. I believe another Irish journalist wrote this up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Murphy" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney > Finnegan - whoever you are - > > --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> >> In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:09:57 PM Eastern >> Standard Time, >> clitophon at yahoo.com writes: >> >> that its rhyming >> journalism or journalese. >> >> >> We must not be talking about the same poet. Heaney >> is perhaps a common name in Ireland. I haven't >> gotten >> around to the books of this other fellow. The one >> I'm talking >> about uses the kinds of words and diction that would >> never be >> mistaken for language one finds in newspapers and >> popular >> journals. >> >> Finnegan >> > _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 14 15:39:25 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:39:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Message-ID: <35c.280f39b.3171546d@aol.com> In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:28:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: another Irish journalist Patrick Kavanaugh was a good journalist and pretty fair poet. But he was the generation before Heaney. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Apr 14 08:38:08 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:38:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rhyming journalism In-Reply-To: <7C9DAEA8-2EB9-4D80-8A9F-E63EE3DAF8FD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Neither the rhyming nor the meter is well handled in this particular song. My own complaint with Heaney is that he writes too much of this sort of thing and gets called a great formal poet. The influence of the Lowell of Life Studies remains an impediment to Heaney?s poetic achievement to this day. On 4/14/06 2:22 PM, "David Graham" wrote: > I really must get to Dublin sometime soon.? Journalism on this side of the > pond doesn't sound like this.? And we Americans rhyme a bit differently, too. > > > Song > ? > ? > A rowan like a lipsticked girl. > Between the by-road and the main road > Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance > Stand off among the rushes. > ? > There are the mud-flowers of dialect > And the immortelles of perfect pitch > And that moment when the bird sings very close > To the music of what happens. > ? > ?????????????????????????????????????? ?Seamus Heaney > > > On Apr 14, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Paul Murphy wrote: > >> >> another thing about his poetry is that its rhyming >> >> >> journalism or journalese. >> > > > > > > ========================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ========================================== > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 14 15:47:38 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:47:38 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rhyming journalism References: Message-ID: <010901c65ffc$4907c0c0$b97c3652@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] Rhyming journalismI don't find any rhyme either but I like the images and its freshness, the crispy playfulness. From: Paul Lake Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:38 PM Neither the rhyming nor the meter is well handled in this particular song. My own complaint with Heaney is that he writes too much of this sort of thing and gets called a great formal poet. The influence of the Lowell of Life Studies remains an impediment to Heaney's poetic achievement to this day. On 4/14/06 2:22 PM, "David Graham" wrote: I really must get to Dublin sometime soon.? Journalism on this side of the pond doesn't sound like this.? And we Americans rhyme a bit differently, too. Song ? ? A rowan like a lipsticked girl. Between the by-road and the main road Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance Stand off among the rushes. ? There are the mud-flowers of dialect And the immortelles of perfect pitch And that moment when the bird sings very close To the music of what happens. ? ?????????????????????????????????????? ?Seamus Heaney On Apr 14, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Paul Murphy wrote: another thing about his poetry is that its rhyming journalism or journalese. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 15:52:16 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <35c.280f39b.3171546d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060414195216.65193.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I dont like him either. --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:28:45 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > tad at opus40.org writes: > > another Irish journalist > > > Patrick Kavanaugh was a good journalist and pretty > fair poet. > But he was the generation before Heaney. > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 14 15:55:53 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:55:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: <20060414195216.65193.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <012401c65ffd$70177d30$b97c3652@ANNY> Tell us Paul, do you like any Irish authors besides Joyce, I like very few Italian authors for example, the countries are small and it is very easy to see the flaws, From: "Paul Murphy" Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:52 PM >I dont like him either. > > --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > >> >> In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:28:45 PM Eastern >> Standard Time, >> tad at opus40.org writes: >> >> another Irish journalist >> >> >> Patrick Kavanaugh was a good journalist and pretty >> fair poet. >> But he was the generation before Heaney. >> Finnegan From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 15:56:50 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:56:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rhyming journalism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060414195650.9639.qmail@web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > Song > > ? > > ? > > A rowan like a lipsticked girl. (how is this a similie? what is the point of the contrast?) > > Between the by-road and the main road > > Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance > > Stand off among the rushes. (I?m glad he got the rushes in though.) I have never heard any person in Ireland mention either an alder or a rowan, but H seems to mention them all the time. People I know back home are more interested in booze or the bookies than trees. > > ? > > There are the mud-flowers what the f*** is a ?mud-flower?? This is something that H made up. It sounds powerful and potent. But its nonsense. of dialect > > And the immortelles (where does this word come from? Is this an example of Ballymoney French?) of perfect pitch > > And that moment when the bird sings very close > > To the music of what happens. > > ? > > ?????????????????????????????????????? ?Seamus > Heaney > > > > > > On Apr 14, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Paul Murphy wrote: > > > >> > >> another thing about his poetry is that its > rhyming > >> > >> > >> journalism or journalese. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 15:57:35 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <20060414195216.65193.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060414195736.51937.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> by the way, that?s a marvellous fact to know. I?ll cherish it! --- Paul Murphy wrote: > I dont like him either. > > --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:28:45 PM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > tad at opus40.org writes: > > > > another Irish journalist > > > > > > Patrick Kavanaugh was a good journalist and pretty > > fair poet. > > But he was the generation before Heaney. > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From clitophon at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 16:10:33 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <012401c65ffd$70177d30$b97c3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeats. I think Yeats was a great writer but I have a taste for philosopher poets (or poet philosophers). So, poets, like Heaney, who seem to take language for their subject, dont appeal to me so much. Therefore, I also like Blake, but not Wordsworth or Tennyson. Eliot and Pound but not Thomas or Frost. --- Anny Ballardini wrote: > Tell us Paul, do you like any Irish authors besides > Joyce, > I like very few Italian authors for example, the > countries are small and it > is very easy to see the flaws, > > From: "Paul Murphy" > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:52 PM > > > >I dont like him either. > > > > --- JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > >> > >> In a message dated 4/14/2006 3:28:45 PM Eastern > >> Standard Time, > >> tad at opus40.org writes: > >> > >> another Irish journalist > >> > >> > >> Patrick Kavanaugh was a good journalist and > pretty > >> fair poet. > >> But he was the generation before Heaney. > >> Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Apr 14 16:16:16 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:16:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <160AF949-6114-4D84-B4C9-C4419451E189@ripon.edu> On Apr 14, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Paul Murphy wrote: > So, poets, like Heaney, who seem to take language for > their subject, dont appeal to me so much. Therefore, > I also like Blake, but not Wordsworth or Tennyson. > Eliot and Pound but not Thomas or Frost. Frost takes language as his subject? Frost has no philosophy? ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Apr 14 16:40:01 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:40:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fibonacci Poems Multiply on the Web After Blog's Invitation - New York Times Message-ID: <17B91D9D-B4E7-46F5-8E49-4D3B33971374@earthlink.net> Looks like Ron Silliman's not the only one bitten by the fibonacci bug. Even our morning news guy on NY1 had one for us this ayem. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/14/books/14fibo.html Quis ipsos custodes custodiet? --Juvenal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 14 17:30:14 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 23:30:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fibonacci Poems Multiply on the Web After Blog'sInvitation - New York Times References: <17B91D9D-B4E7-46F5-8E49-4D3B33971374@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <016401c6600a$9e3ee7e0$b97c3652@ANNY> "History," from the same collection, describes a tree with a Nazi grenade embedded in it; when the tree is later cut down and burned as firewood, the grenade explodes. "I come from people who held slaves, and people who were put in ovens," Graham says. "So I have a sense there is very little one human being won't do to another." http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/0101123.html Graham's daughter is writing a book for Tupelo with the fib system, I was looking for some reference on her daughter and I found the above article. does Juvenal question ask Who protects the protectors? ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: New-Poetry New-Poetry Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fibonacci Poems Multiply on the Web After Blog'sInvitation - New York Times Looks like Ron Silliman's not the only one bitten by the fibonacci bug. Even our morning news guy on NY1 had one for us this ayem. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/14/books/14fibo.html Quis ipsos custodes custodiet? --Juvenal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 14 20:48:09 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:48:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Portrait of Critic, South Florida Message-ID: <390.85be23.31719cc9@aol.com> For most critics, unsolicited books arrive with the mail almost every day. Regularly William Logan drives to Borders to buy books to review. He saves the receipts because he can itemize this expense on his taxes at year end. A hand truck beside his desk serves as a bookcase. He temporarily shelves the thin volumes there, then wheels them out as a stack to the curb on trash day. It? s a shame he thinks that his community has not mandated recycling of paper goods. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Fri Apr 14 20:55:09 2006 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:55:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <012401c65ffd$70177d30$b97c3652@ANNY> <20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20060414195011.01afd6a0@mail.ilstu.edu> Here's my tribute to Heaney, written after his 2004 address/reading at the Thomas Hardy Conference in Dorchester. The formatting is a little tricky; hope it survives the transition to email Bill Morgan Lammas Moon We come back emptied, to nourish and resist the words of coming to rest. . . . --Seamus Heaney With others in the chattering crowd that tumbles out into the late-night street, I look up to see the butter-yellow, confident moon gazing down benignly on us: it?s August 1 in Dorset-- Lammas-tide, feast of the early harvest, when the Saxons broke the first loaf at mass--with the autumn oncoming, and we?re deep in the spell of a master?s lines. The wise poet?s knife-edged words-- birthplace, flagstone, byre, birthright-- and the luminous disc light my drive home along narrow, high-hedged lanes; they are a beacon and a talisman-- but not for the rabbit in the white of the headlights: I brake to evade, but it finds the wheels-- whump-whump--front and rear. Back at the farmhouse, I park and slump in through the dregs of a wedding party breaking up: a young man snarls ?Then fuck it?-fuck you,? at a bare-shouldered girl; they are weighted down with a sorrow older than her small, white arms or his flushed face. The steady light up there is now so close I think I could touch it; still, it looks on and offers no counsel. My neck and shoulders are chilled; I?m hollowed out. I want to rock shut against the graceless world. But I walk outside with a glass of wine, lean over the wall and watch two hares frisking in the barley stubble. The voice of the poet floats up again, pauses at the margin of the audible, then drifts silently out across the meadow, reaching toward an accord, a merger with the large, staring Lammas moon: faint stripes of cloud lie across the lighted face like the last traces of a smile. I step back in along the shining flagstone path; I will sleep tonight with the windows and curtains open after all. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Apr 14 20:59:50 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:59:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Portrait of Critic, South Florida References: <390.85be23.31719cc9@aol.com> Message-ID: <00a301c66027$e65e2b40$6bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> For most critics, unsolicited books arrive with the mail almost every day. Regularly William Logan drives to Borders to buy books to review. Off the shelf? That he doesn't read unsolicited material (apparently) supports my view of him. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Apr 14 21:05:35 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:05:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: <012401c65ffd$70177d30$b97c3652@ANNY><20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.0.2.0.2.20060414195011.01afd6a0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <00b201c66028$b3e93000$6bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Morgan To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney Here's my tribute to Heaney, written after his 2004 address/reading at the Thomas Hardy Conference in Dorchester. The formatting is a little tricky; hope it survives the transition to email Bill Morgan Lammas Moon We come back emptied, to nourish and resist the words of coming to rest. . . . --Seamus Heaney With others in the chattering crowd that tumbles out into the late-night street, I look up to see the butter-yellow, confident moon gazing down benignly on us: it's August 1 in Dorset-- Lammas-tide, feast of the early harvest, when the Saxons broke the first loaf at mass--with the autumn oncoming, and we're deep in the spell of a master's lines. The wise poet's knife-edged words-- birthplace, flagstone, byre, birthright-- and the luminous disc light my drive home along narrow, high-hedged lanes; they are a beacon and a talisman-- but not for the rabbit in the white of the headlights: I brake to evade, but it finds the wheels-- whump-whump--front and rear. Back at the farmhouse, I park and slump in through the dregs of a wedding party breaking up: a young man snarls "Then fuck it?-fuck you," at a bare-shouldered girl; they are weighted down with a sorrow older than her small, white arms or his flushed face. The steady light up there is now so close I think I could touch it; still, it looks on and offers no counsel. My neck and shoulders are chilled; I'm hollowed out. I want to rock shut against the graceless world. But I walk outside with a glass of wine, lean over the wall and watch two hares frisking in the barley stubble. The voice of the poet floats up again, pauses at the margin of the audible, then drifts silently out across the meadow, reaching toward an accord, a merger with the large, staring Lammas moon: faint stripes of cloud lie across the lighted face like the last traces of a smile. I step back in along the shining flagstone path; I will sleep tonight with the windows and curtains open after all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This seems a fine poem to me, but I tend to feel that including the death of the rabbit AND the boy/girl spat maybe too much. On the other hand, if you had just one of these episodes, it might not be enough. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu Fri Apr 14 21:55:02 2006 From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:55:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <00b201c66028$b3e93000$6bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <012401c65ffd$70177d30$b97c3652@ANNY> <20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.0.2.0.2.20060414195011.01afd6a0@mail.ilstu.edu> <00b201c66028$b3e93000$6bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20060414205434.03011910@mail.ilstu.edu> Thanks, Bob--for the praise and the suggestion(s). At 08:05 PM 4/14/2006, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bill Morgan >To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News >&Views >Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:55 PM >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney > > Here's my tribute to Heaney, written after his 2004 > address/reading at the Thomas Hardy Conference in Dorchester. The > formatting is a little tricky; hope it survives the transition to email > > Bill Morgan > > Lammas Moon > > We come back emptied, > to nourish and resist > the words of coming to rest. . . . > > --Seamus Heaney > >With others in the chattering crowd >that tumbles out into the late-night street, >I look up to see the butter-yellow, >confident moon gazing down benignly >on us: it?s August 1 in Dorset-- >Lammas-tide, feast of the early >harvest, when the Saxons broke the first >loaf at mass--with the autumn oncoming, >and we?re deep in the spell of a master?s lines. > >The wise poet?s knife-edged words-- >birthplace, flagstone, byre, birthright-- >and the luminous disc light my drive >home along narrow, high-hedged lanes; >they are a beacon and a talisman-- > > but not for the rabbit in the white of the headlights: > I brake to evade, but it finds the wheels-- > whump-whump--front and rear. > > Back at the farmhouse, I park and slump > in through the dregs of a wedding party > breaking up: a young man snarls > ?Then fuck it?-fuck you,? at a bare-shouldered girl; > they are weighted down with a sorrow older > than her small, white arms or his flushed face. > >The steady light up there is now >so close I think I could touch it; still, >it looks on and offers no counsel. > My neck >and shoulders are chilled; I?m hollowed out. >I want to rock shut against the graceless world. > >But I walk outside with a glass of wine, >lean over the wall and watch two hares >frisking in the barley stubble. > The voice >of the poet floats up again, pauses >at the margin of the audible, then drifts >silently out across the meadow, >reaching toward an accord, a merger >with the large, staring Lammas moon: >faint stripes of cloud lie across the lighted >face like the last traces of a smile. > >I step back in along the shining >flagstone path; I will sleep tonight >with the windows and curtains open after all. > > >---------- >This seems a fine poem to me, but I tend to feel that including the death >of the rabbit AND the boy/girl spat maybe too much. On the other hand, if >you had just one of these episodes, it might not be enough. > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Sat Apr 15 04:57:49 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <160AF949-6114-4D84-B4C9-C4419451E189@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <20060415085749.91705.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> of course he has. --- David Graham wrote: > > On Apr 14, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Paul Murphy wrote: > > > So, poets, like Heaney, who seem to take language > for > > their subject, dont appeal to me so much. > Therefore, > > I also like Blake, but not Wordsworth or Tennyson. > > Eliot and Pound but not Thomas or Frost. > > > Frost takes language as his subject? Frost has no > philosophy? > > > ========================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From clitophon at yahoo.com Sat Apr 15 05:00:09 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 02:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney In-Reply-To: <6.0.2.0.2.20060414205434.03011910@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <20060415090009.87306.qmail@web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I remember going to the auld Lammas fair in Ballycastle and eating awful candyfloss, as a child. Ballycastle, a simultaneously dreadful, harrowing and wonderful place. --- Bill Morgan wrote: > Thanks, Bob--for the praise and the suggestion(s). > > At 08:05 PM 4/14/2006, you wrote: > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Bill Morgan > >To: NewPoetry: > Contemporary Poetry News > >&Views > >Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:55 PM > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney > > > > Here's my tribute to Heaney, written after > his 2004 > > address/reading at the Thomas Hardy Conference in > Dorchester. The > > formatting is a little tricky; hope it survives > the transition to email > > > > > Bill Morgan > > > > Lammas Moon > > > > We come back > emptied, > > to nourish and > resist > > the words of > coming to rest. . . . > > > > > --Seamus Heaney > > > >With others in the chattering crowd > >that tumbles out into the late-night street, > >I look up to see the butter-yellow, > >confident moon gazing down benignly > >on us: it?s August 1 in Dorset-- > >Lammas-tide, feast of the early > >harvest, when the Saxons broke the first > >loaf at mass--with the autumn oncoming, > >and we?re deep in the spell of a master?s lines. > > > >The wise poet?s knife-edged words-- > >birthplace, flagstone, byre, birthright-- > >and the luminous disc light my drive > >home along narrow, high-hedged lanes; > >they are a beacon and a talisman-- > > > > but not for the rabbit in the white of the > headlights: > > I brake to evade, but it finds the wheels-- > > whump-whump--front and rear. > > > > Back at the farmhouse, I park and slump > > in through the dregs of a wedding party > > breaking up: a young man snarls > > ?Then fuck it?-fuck you,? at a bare-shouldered > girl; > > they are weighted down with a sorrow older > > than her small, white arms or his flushed face. > > > >The steady light up there is now > >so close I think I could touch it; still, > >it looks on and offers no counsel. > > > My neck > >and shoulders are chilled; I?m hollowed out. > >I want to rock shut against the graceless world. > > > >But I walk outside with a glass of wine, > >lean over the wall and watch two hares > >frisking in the barley stubble. > > > The voice > >of the poet floats up again, pauses > >at the margin of the audible, then drifts > >silently out across the meadow, > >reaching toward an accord, a merger > >with the large, staring Lammas moon: > >faint stripes of cloud lie across the lighted > >face like the last traces of a smile. > > > >I step back in along the shining > >flagstone path; I will sleep tonight > >with the windows and curtains open after all. > > > > > >---------- > >This seems a fine poem to me, but I tend to feel > that including the death > >of the rabbit AND the boy/girl spat maybe too much. > On the other hand, if > >you had just one of these episodes, it might not be > enough. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 08:09:56 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 08:09:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Heaney References: <012401c65ffd$70177d30$b97c3652@ANNY><20060414201033.91573.qmail@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6.0.2.0.2.20060414195011.01afd6a0@mail.ilstu.edu><00b201c66028$b3e93000$6bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <6.0.2.0.2.20060414205434.03011910@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <002301c66085$8307a130$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Thanks, Bob--for the praise and the suggestion(s). Oops, now you're in for it, Bill--I have another suggestion (though, I do think your poem much more than okay as is). I came to it while jogging, so have no idea how feasible it is, but what I suggest you try is having your persona leave a spat and maybe other small unhappinesses, recover from that listening to Heaney, then hit the rabbit, then recover again. Ha, now that I write it out, it seems dopey, but here it is, anyway. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Apr 15 10:30:35 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:30:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford Message-ID: This just in: William Logan has scanned the table of contents of David Lehman's new *Oxford Book of American Poetry*, and lo, he findeth little to admire. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/books/review/16logan.html? _r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1145110890-PxkuOwd6 +MDnsYF8IMwsUw ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 15 10:54:33 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 16:54:33 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford References: Message-ID: <00a001c6609c$81c083c0$eeae3252@ANNY> quoting some that made me laugh: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- he (Lehman) declares, "eloquence, passion, intelligence, conviction, wit, originality, pride of craft, an eye for the genuine, an ear for speech, an instinct for the truth" - this must be more gaseous blather than any anthologist has fitted into one sentence for a long time. The strangest inclusion is the Canadian Anne Carson, here because she "has taught in the United States and has a wide following among younger poets" - with standards like that, you could include any poet who ever came here for a long weekend. The youngest in Lehman is in his mid-50's, and at this rate the baby in the next edition will be over 70. This bloated, earnest, largely mediocre new Oxford takes up a lot of space on the shelf without providing a clear view of our moment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- which was just logical. He practically ends almost each paragraph with a surreal statement, phew...! From: David Graham Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:30 PM This just in: William Logan has scanned the table of contents of David Lehman's new *Oxford Book of American Poetry*, and lo, he findeth little to admire. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/books/review/16logan.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1145110890-PxkuOwd6+MDnsYF8IMwsUw ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 15 11:54:10 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:54:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Library References: <648208b60604131204v7b5c7847jae060b7e4f706010@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010901c660a4$d5c83a50$eeae3252@ANNY> You might also wish to check Joel Weishaus' links: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/cew/cew.htm From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:04 PM > Alas, I didn't check to see if you might already have this one. But, > it's goofy fun: http://www.neologisms.us/ > > to which I've contributed: blowstarch: a person whose utterances are > loud, fiery, and have a stiffening effect on any conversation. > > - Jim > > On 4/13/06, David Graham wrote: >> My online Poetry Library has been dormant for some time, for a variety of >> technical and other reasons. Many dead links. Many gaps in coverage. >> >> That's where you come in, oh poetry experts. One of my summer projects will >> be to spiff up, edit, and add to my pages. Suggestions welcome. (Also >> notification of any dead links you find.) >> >> I've already begun the process of cleaning things up, but will probably be >> at it a while. >> >> Anway, I'm always looking for critical articles on poetry, archives of >> online poems, pages devoted to classic & contemporary figures, "toolbox" >> sites such as rhyming dictionaries, organizations devoted to poetry, etc. >> >> URLs for my pages are in my signature below. I have a home page and a >> library page, both with many links. >> >> One note: I like linking to people's home pages, but not when they're just >> advertisements for buying books, or mainly non-literary in nature. I am in >> favor of buying books, as it happens, but my links tend to favor those sites >> that have generous samples of poems, critical articles, and other >> informative comment. >> >> One further note: So far, I've not moved into the blog world, either. >> Unsure whether that's a base I need to cover, since most blogs have lengthy >> lists of links to other blogs already. >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 12:30:46 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:30:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford References: <00a001c6609c$81c083c0$eeae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <00a301c660a9$f325ad30$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Well, I for one think it disgraceful the way these mainstreamers fight with each other. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat Apr 15 12:37:20 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:37:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Best New Poets CFP Message-ID: <731bb17a0604150937m46191d27jfeb959542d5bcfeb@mail.gmail.com> Apologies for cross-posting. Jeff Newberry ------------ The Open Competition for Best New Poets 2006 is underway. Go to http://www.bestnewpoets.org and click on "Open Competition" to submit work today. Entry fee: $8. Deadline: June 15, 2006, midnight. Best New Poets is a new, annual anthology that features 50 poems from emerging writers (poets who have not yet published a book-length collection). The 50 poems are selected from a pool of nominations from literary magazines, writing programs, and our Open Competition. Open Competition entrants pay an $8 reading fee, receive at least one reading of their work (most receive several), and receive a copy of the anthology in the mail. Two Open Competition entrants also earn $200 cash prizes for their outstanding work. We guarantee that we will publish at least two entrants from the Open Competition, though we expect to publish many more. In 2005, 24 of our 50 poets came from Open Competition entries. You can send any two poems that are 1) unpublished, or 2) published after June 15, 2005. Additionally, because your submission is electronic, you can confirm that we have received it, as well as check a status page to see when we've read your work and when we've reached a decision. This is not one of those "black hole" contests where you submit and never hear from us again. If we say we notify you of results, we mean it. Please: all submissions must be through our online database. Do not send paper submissions. All entry fees must be paid through our secure online credit card interface at the University of Virginia. Take a look at our "Eligibility" or "FAQ" page if you have other questions about the anthology. This year's editor is Eric Pankey, and we're pleased to announce that the University of Virginia Press has agreed to distribute the 2006 edition, which should increase our retail presence. Even so, amazon.comis down to their last 4 copies of the 2005 edition, and every retail copy has sold out, exhausting our 2005 print run. The anthology is off to a solid start. Please consider giving us a try in 2006 and look for us in bookstores this October. Jeb Livingood Series Editor, Best New Poets www.bestnewpoets.org -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 12:39:06 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:39:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford References: <00a001c6609c$81c083c0$eeae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <00b701c660ab$1d64d7a0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I thought the funniest passage in Logan's essay was "Lehman's catholic taste." --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.lott at gmail.com Sat Apr 15 13:25:20 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:25:20 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob's Blog/Site Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604151025q62d3eff3p32e19cda3950229@mail.gmail.com> I recommend Bob's site/blog: http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html Good stuff that's making me think. And I appreciate Bob's responses because they don't assume I am arguing just for the sake of argument or out of bad faith. The beauty of the blog format is that topics tend to start with more depth and conversations can just be stopped whenever either person feels like it's time-- email lists tend to encourage and over-value getting "the last word" in. That being said, I think Comprepoetica and its commenting readers could use some modern software to make everyone's lives a little easier :) But that's a minor detail. c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sat Apr 15 13:29:50 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:29:50 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem In-Reply-To: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604151029k621f821fr212e85f328b9a4f5@mail.gmail.com> On 4/4/06, Bob Grumman wrote: > Here's my somewhat related one-word poem: > > > whomb > As I'm thinking about it, the difference between this kind of one-word poem (and "lighght") and a poem like "tundra" is really at the heart of my own value system. Because the former aren't really one-word poems in the sense that matters... they are coinages/creations that involve the three fundamental elements: words themselves, interpretation, and words in coordination/conjunction/juxtaposition. The true one-word poem is missing that essential third element that balances out what the reader brings by confining and defining, even a little, their interpretations... c From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 15:09:58 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:09:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob's Blog/Site References: <9b1b9dab0604151025q62d3eff3p32e19cda3950229@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01d301c660c0$3381f4e0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Lott" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &,Views" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob's Blog/Site >I recommend Bob's site/blog: > http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/Index.html > > Good stuff that's making me think. And I appreciate Bob's responses > because they don't assume I am arguing just for the sake of argument > or out of bad faith. > > The beauty of the blog format is that topics tend to start with more > depth and conversations can just be stopped whenever either person > feels like it's time-- email lists tend to encourage and over-value > getting "the last word" in. > > That being said, I think Comprepoetica and its commenting readers > could use some modern software to make everyone's lives a little > easier :) But that's a minor detail. > > c Thanks for the plug for my blog, Chris. Thanks, too, for your comments to my blog. I'm not so sure about your criticism of my comments section. I'm not really sure what kind of comments mechanism is best. Other blogs let you comment under each entry, and the comments immediately appear at the blog. A disadvantage to this is that a thread of interesting comments may start the day of an entry and continue another day or two, but stop, not because everything worthwhile has been said about the topic being discussed but because the blog has gone too far away. Comments to my blog come to me, and I have to post them (which I feel duty-bound to do, whatever they say). This can take me a while. Another disadvantage is that I may post and respond to a given comment at an entry other than the one the comment was to. I do that because the advantage to doing that is that I can organize comments to an extent, and respond to them more effectively. I can also fit them into larger ongoing discussions. I don't know that I can do much about the short life of comment-threads to a given entry--but by pulling comments to several entries together, I think I end with a fuller thread, and one continued a tad longer. Probably the standard way is best, because that would allow me ALSO to discuss comments in later entries. Maybe also a section containing all comments made to the blog as a whole. I'll look into it. I haven't to this point because I was only getting one or two comments a month, max. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 15:28:03 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0604151029k621f821fr212e85f328b9a4f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01e701c660c2$b799cdf0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > On 4/4/06, Bob Grumman wrote: >> Here's my somewhat related one-word poem: >> >> >> whomb >> > > As I'm thinking about it, the difference between this kind of one-word > poem (and "lighght") and a poem like "tundra" is really at the heart > of my own value system. Because the former aren't really one-word > poems in the sense that matters... they are coinages/creations that > involve the three fundamental elements: words themselves, > interpretation, and words in coordination/conjunction/juxtaposition. > > The true one-word poem is missing that essential third element that > balances out what the reader brings by confining and defining, even a > little, their interpretations... > > c Right now, I can't think of anything I haven't already said in response to what I think you saying, Chris, but I may be able to say more when I tackle the two latest comments you've made to my blog I now have from you. Oh, I can say that I sort of agree with you that "whomb" is not a pwoermd in the sense "tundra" is since it is really two words. But it is presented as a single word, so "one-word poem" seems the best general term for it. "lighght" can't be other than a pwoermd since it's only one word. Its misspelling doesn't making it more than one word or some kind of non-word (since everyone will know what it denotes). Hey, maybe I can reply to what you say about "tundra" in slightly different words than I've already used at my blog and elsewhere to show why I think as highly of it as I do. I would say that it's (1) a word; (2) the engagement has to interpret the meaning not of it so much as what it's doing where it is; (3) it IS a wor in coordination/conjuntion/juxtaposition--with an ABSENCE of words (or, mundanely, the blank page--in, remember, a collection of haiku, or from a collection of haiku). More in my blog, probably. --Bob From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 19:40:56 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:40:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: Message-ID: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: HeaneyI was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me all the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at various websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One result was that I bumped into this site: http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% of those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced me, by the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight between catsup and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a huge amount. Fun site, I thought. Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is scored. I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron Silliman" again (because I couldn't find the original fight between us) and this time I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 19:49:53 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:49:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: HeaneyHa, now I know what happened: Chris Lott said something good about me, which in less than a day multiplied my Internet popularity by 9! I just went up against William Shakespeare. I forget what he scored, but the graph comparing his total to mine was so large, to get the proportions right in the small space allotted, mine was barely visible--but it represented the same 548,000 I got against Silliman. Now if the Mole says something good about me, I may catch up with the Bard! --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight I was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me all the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at various websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One result was that I bumped into this site: http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% of those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced me, by the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight between catsup and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a huge amount. Fun site, I thought. Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is scored. I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron Silliman" again (because I couldn't find the original fight between us) and this time I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sat Apr 15 20:31:16 2006 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (gmguddi at ilstu.edu) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:31:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight In-Reply-To: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Bob, the most likely reason you have such a high google hit rate is because you are a blogger. Same goes for Ron. The archives of blogs archive and re-archive blogrolls, which causes high hits on names in blogrolls. Hope this helps. Gabe Quoting Bob Grumman : > Re: HeaneyI was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me all > the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at various > websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One result was > that I bumped into this site: > http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron > Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the > most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near > 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% of > those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced me, by > the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight between catsup > and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a huge amount. Fun > site, I thought. > > Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is scored. > I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron Silliman" again > (because I couldn't find the original fight between us) and this time > I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. > > --Bob G. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Illinois State University Webmail. From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 15 20:32:46 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:32:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <000e01c660ed$48ec28f0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: HeaneyI took on David Graham and got murdered, 76 million to 484,000. Then I took on T. S. Eliot and that wasn't so bad -- 38 million to 484,000. So just to make sure, I matched up David Graham with T. S. Eliot. Yep, 76 million to 38 million. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight Ha, now I know what happened: Chris Lott said something good about me, which in less than a day multiplied my Internet popularity by 9! I just went up against William Shakespeare. I forget what he scored, but the graph comparing his total to mine was so large, to get the proportions right in the small space allotted, mine was barely visible--but it represented the same 548,000 I got against Silliman. Now if the Mole says something good about me, I may catch up with the Bard! --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight I was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me all the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at various websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One result was that I bumped into this site: http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% of those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced me, by the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight between catsup and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a huge amount. Fun site, I thought. Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is scored. I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron Silliman" again (because I couldn't find the original fight between us) and this time I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. --Bob G. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 15 20:34:13 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:34:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <001801c660ed$7cc02280$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: HeaneyHey, here's one I like. Tad Richards - 484,000 Jorie Graham - 200,000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight Ha, now I know what happened: Chris Lott said something good about me, which in less than a day multiplied my Internet popularity by 9! I just went up against William Shakespeare. I forget what he scored, but the graph comparing his total to mine was so large, to get the proportions right in the small space allotted, mine was barely visible--but it represented the same 548,000 I got against Silliman. Now if the Mole says something good about me, I may catch up with the Bard! --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight I was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me all the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at various websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One result was that I bumped into this site: http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% of those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced me, by the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight between catsup and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a huge amount. Fun site, I thought. Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is scored. I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron Silliman" again (because I couldn't find the original fight between us) and this time I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. --Bob G. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 15 20:57:43 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:57:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <005401c660f0$c512d0c0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: HeaneyBob - I put you on my blog -- http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Let's see what it does for you in the next round. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight Ha, now I know what happened: Chris Lott said something good about me, which in less than a day multiplied my Internet popularity by 9! I just went up against William Shakespeare. I forget what he scored, but the graph comparing his total to mine was so large, to get the proportions right in the small space allotted, mine was barely visible--but it represented the same 548,000 I got against Silliman. Now if the Mole says something good about me, I may catch up with the Bard! --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:40 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight I was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me all the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at various websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One result was that I bumped into this site: http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% of those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced me, by the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight between catsup and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a huge amount. Fun site, I thought. Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is scored. I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron Silliman" again (because I couldn't find the original fight between us) and this time I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. --Bob G. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mac.com Sat Apr 15 21:21:07 2006 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:21:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight In-Reply-To: <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: On Apr 15, 2006, at 8:31 PM, gmguddi at ilstu.edu wrote: > Bob, the most likely reason you have such a high google hit rate is > because you > are a blogger. Same goes for Ron. The archives of blogs archive and > re-archive > blogrolls, which causes high hits on names in blogrolls. Hope this > helps. > > Gabe > > Quoting Bob Grumman : > >> Re: HeaneyI was trying to re-link after a computer crash cost me >> all the links in my favorites box to various stuff of mine at >> various websites the other day by doing a search on my name. One >> result was that I bumped into this site: >> http://www.googlefight.com. There I had been put up against Ron >> Silliman! It seems to be a contest to see whose name appears the >> most on the Internet or something. I was amazed at my score: near >> 40,000, though I don't know the significance of that. Maybe 98% >> of those are due to all the posts I've made here. Ron trounced >> me, by the way, getting close to 280,000. I started a fight >> between catsup and poetry. I forget the score but poetry won be a >> huge amount. Fun site, I thought. >> >> Oops, now I have to say I haven't any idea how the thing is >> scored. I just went back and had "Bob Grumman" take on "Ron >> Silliman" again (because I couldn't find the original fight >> between us) and this time I won 548,000 to 349,000, which is absurd. >> >> --Bob G. > > > Common names matter, too. I trounce Silliman 9,020,000 to 359,000, but the banjo player's on my team. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Illinois State University Webmail. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 21:45:43 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:45:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <001801c660ed$7cc02280$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <02ff01c660f7$79ab35d0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: HeaneyI suspect you were going up against more than one David Graham, Tad. But I suspect that I had Grumman Aircraft on my side when I beat Ron Silliman. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 21:46:41 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:46:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <030401c660f7$9c5eb980$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > Bob, the most likely reason you have such a high google hit rate is > because you > are a blogger. Same goes for Ron. The archives of blogs archive and > re-archive > blogrolls, which causes high hits on names in blogrolls. Hope this helps. > > Gabe A bit--but why did I jump from 40,000 one day to 540,000 just a week later? --Bob From mandolin at mac.com Sat Apr 15 21:48:59 2006 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:48:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight In-Reply-To: References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: On Apr 15, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Michael Snider wrote: >> > > Common names matter, too. I trounce Silliman 9,020,000 to 359,000, > but the banjo player's on my team. On the other hand, making the terms mike snider poet vs ron silliman poet, it's still me, 690,000 to 229,000. But David Graham is, apparently, a god. From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 15 22:00:54 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:00:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <008501c660f9$9892f990$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> It makes a difference whether you type Bob Grumman or "Bob Grumman" Which is why I beat out Jorie. But I'll still take it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Snider" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight > > On Apr 15, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > >>> >> >> Common names matter, too. I trounce Silliman 9,020,000 to 359,000, but >> the banjo player's on my team. > > > On the other hand, making the terms mike snider poet vs ron silliman > poet, it's still me, 690,000 to 229,000. > > But David Graham is, apparently, a god. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 15 22:29:12 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:29:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> <008501c660f9$9892f990$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <000c01c660fd$8cfa3cc0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Make of this what you will. A virtual tie between "Billy Collins" 654,000 "John Dryden" 673,000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight > It makes a difference whether you type > > Bob Grumman > > or > > "Bob Grumman" > > Which is why I beat out Jorie. > > But I'll still take it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Snider" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight > > >> >> On Apr 15, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Michael Snider wrote: >> >>>> >>> >>> Common names matter, too. I trounce Silliman 9,020,000 to 359,000, but >>> the banjo player's on my team. >> >> >> On the other hand, making the terms mike snider poet vs ron silliman >> poet, it's still me, 690,000 to 229,000. >> >> But David Graham is, apparently, a god. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 22:31:56 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:31:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <005401c660f0$c512d0c0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <033401c660fd$eebaa6c0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: Heaney Bob - I put you on my blog -- http://opusforty.blogspot.com/ Let's see what it does for you in the next round. Yikes, I'll be afraid to look. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 15 22:36:35 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:36:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> <008501c660f9$9892f990$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <035501c660fe$94b7f000$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> > It makes a difference whether you type > > Bob Grumman > > or > > "Bob Grumman" > > Which is why I beat out Jorie. > > But I'll still take it. Nuts, that explains it, Mole. I used quotation marks and slid back down to a little under 40,000 (and got trounced again by Silliman). But at least now I won't have to worry about keeping Chris on my side. Or you! --Bob From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Apr 16 00:07:35 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:07:35 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bob's Blog/Site In-Reply-To: <01d301c660c0$3381f4e0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <9b1b9dab0604151025q62d3eff3p32e19cda3950229@mail.gmail.com> <01d301c660c0$3381f4e0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604152107t60ab8b91u61d2494f8af930b6@mail.gmail.com> There are advantages in your blog's way, Bob, which have me thinking. But one thing I do know is that with modern blogs you don't have to lose conversations-- you can still have comments emailed to you and then bring the responses to readers attentions (old style) or have a running feed of recent comments displayed on your index page (newer style). Anyway, I don't want to get off on a rail. I like a lot of things about your method-- I think it inspires more thought about posts and responses. But I do wish that I could get paragraph breaks in my replies. Maybe they come through to you, but I don't see them in the "confirmation" screen :) c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Apr 16 00:11:04 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:11:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] One-Word Poem In-Reply-To: <01e701c660c2$b799cdf0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <006301c6584b$b434aba0$87b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <9b1b9dab0604151029k621f821fr212e85f328b9a4f5@mail.gmail.com> <01e701c660c2$b799cdf0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604152111k3b65c7adi76b8b3f9f0a79001@mail.gmail.com> On 4/15/06, Bob Grumman wrote: > Right now, I can't think of anything I haven't already said in response to > what I think you saying, Chris, but I may be able to say more when I tackle > the two latest comments you've made to my blog I now have from you. No obligation, I'm just thinking out loud. (3) it IS a wor in coordination/conjuntion/juxtaposition--with an ABSENCE of words (or, > mundanely, the blank page--in, remember, a collection of haiku, or from a > collection of haiku). My short answer side wants to say: well, of course every single word is in coordination with an absence of words and words in the shape of pieces around it (if any). But I see what you are getting at. It's a question of how much the reader has to bring to the poem (the pessimist view-- the fan would say how much the poem inspires and influences the reader)... c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Apr 16 00:16:25 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:16:25 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight In-Reply-To: <035501c660fe$94b7f000$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> <008501c660f9$9892f990$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <035501c660fe$94b7f000$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604152116i7c80be32u2cf52393e7a3c6d1@mail.gmail.com> I wish I had that kind of influence-- but the quotation marks make more sense :) But Gabe is right that blogs, because they change and interlink with one another, currently get a lot of page rank and visibility in Google... I'm constantly surprised at the phrases and terms that my tech blog is in the top ten for, with very little reason... c From chris.lott at gmail.com Sun Apr 16 00:28:14 2006 From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:28:14 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rhyming journalism In-Reply-To: <7C9DAEA8-2EB9-4D80-8A9F-E63EE3DAF8FD@ripon.edu> References: <20060414180925.81000.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7C9DAEA8-2EB9-4D80-8A9F-E63EE3DAF8FD@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0604152128q3d18b40ej249e449dac573b77@mail.gmail.com> On 4/14/06, David Graham wrote: > I really must get to Dublin sometime soon. Journalism on this side of the > pond doesn't sound like this. And we Americans rhyme a bit differently, > too. > > > Song > > > A rowan like a lipsticked girl. [...] I like this little piece... a bagatelle. So much that I made my own broadside for it which has been on my wall above my computer at home for years. No particular reason other than liking the sound of it and feeling that there is an important lesson here. I haven't read enough Heaney in a compressed enough time period to be jaded by his style. c From matthew.shindell at gmail.com Sun Apr 16 00:31:52 2006 From: matthew.shindell at gmail.com (Matthew Shindell) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:31:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Listen to Sally Ball in the My Vocabulary archives Message-ID: <3f273e940604152131t783adb74v361ba3a511aca96e@mail.gmail.com> I hope you all will enjoy this one. We recorded it a couple days after Christmas in a park in Phoenix as Sally's children played in the sunny Arizona winter weather. You may hear them in the background. Head over to http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com/ to hear the show. In the first hour: Sally Ball reads from her Barrow Street Poetry Prize-winning book Annus Mirabilis. In the second hour: poems by Matthew Thornburn and other unsolicited contributors. It was a fun show, so I hope you'll give it a try! Matt -- My Vocabulary: Poems and Music Hosted by Matthew Shindell Music by Michel Cazary Sundays 4-6 pm (PST) on KSDT (http://ksdt.ucsd.edu/) http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com MyVocabulary at gmail.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 16 04:20:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:20:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Listen to Sally Ball in the My Vocabulary archives References: <3f273e940604152131t783adb74v361ba3a511aca96e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a601c6612e$a10f1d30$2baa3252@ANNY> Wonderful choice of songs, I could not sit to listen to the various poems, but excellent all together. From: "Matthew Shindell" Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:31 AM >I hope you all will enjoy this one. We recorded it a couple days after > Christmas in a park in Phoenix as Sally's children played in the sunny > Arizona winter weather. You may hear them in the background. > > Head over to http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com/ to hear the show. > > In the first hour: Sally Ball reads from her Barrow Street Poetry > Prize-winning book Annus Mirabilis. > > In the second hour: poems by Matthew Thornburn and other unsolicited > contributors. > > It was a fun show, so I hope you'll give it a try! > > Matt > > -- > My Vocabulary: Poems and Music > Hosted by Matthew Shindell > Music by Michel Cazary > Sundays 4-6 pm (PST) on KSDT (http://ksdt.ucsd.edu/) > http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com > MyVocabulary at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sun Apr 16 07:30:19 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 04:30:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Googlefight Message-ID: <200604161103.k3GB36xv143496@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> They do actually share many similar attitudes about "proper" morality, a "charming" presciptive judgmental attitude, seemingly tempered by "good humor and "manners" (in the middle style....) Surely, that accounts for that virtual tie---Collins may get the electoral college though, for being so shrewdly A-ROVE-ing... ---------- >From: "TheOldMole" >To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight >Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2006, 7:29 PM > > Make of this what you will. A virtual tie between > > "Billy Collins" 654,000 "John Dryden" 673,000 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TheOldMole" > To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" > > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:00 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight > > >> It makes a difference whether you type >> >> Bob Grumman >> >> or >> >> "Bob Grumman" >> >> Which is why I beat out Jorie. >> >> But I'll still take it. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Snider" >> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Googlefight >> >> >>> >>> On Apr 15, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Michael Snider wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Common names matter, too. I trounce Silliman 9,020,000 to 359,000, but >>>> the banjo player's on my team. >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, making the terms mike snider poet vs ron silliman >>> poet, it's still me, 690,000 to 229,000. >>> >>> But David Graham is, apparently, a god. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 16 08:18:31 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:18:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford References: <00a001c6609c$81c083c0$eeae3252@ANNY> <00a301c660a9$f325ad30$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <011701c6614f$e06369c0$2baa3252@ANNY> Chapter Eight Tests and composition exercises for the students 5 Let him parody some poem he finds ridiculous, either because of falsity in the statement, or falsity in the disposition of the writer, or for pretentiousness, of one kind or another, or for any other reason that strikes his risible faculties, his sense of irony. ... Note: No harm has ever yet been done a good poem by this process. FitzGerald's Rubaiyat has survived hundreds of parodies, that are not really parodies either of Omar or FitzGerald, but only poems written in that form of strophe. ABC _ of reading _ Ezra Pound (I know... you are talking of a book and not a pOm, and you are criticizing the mainstreamers and not... I just value the principle in this context, and I like Lehman's Irony. From: Bob Grumman Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:30 PM Well, I for one think it disgraceful the way these mainstreamers fight with each other. --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 16 08:32:37 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:32:37 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford References: <00a001c6609c$81c083c0$eeae3252@ANNY><00a301c660a9$f325ad30$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <011701c6614f$e06369c0$2baa3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <012601c66151$d861ef60$2baa3252@ANNY> Sorry, Logan's irony, even if I might like Lehman's choices, I do not have the book here. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Lehman's Oxford Chapter Eight Tests and composition exercises for the students 5 Let him parody some poem he finds ridiculous, either because of falsity in the statement, or falsity in the disposition of the writer, or for pretentiousness, of one kind or another, or for any other reason that strikes his risible faculties, his sense of irony. ... Note: No harm has ever yet been done a good poem by this process. FitzGerald's Rubaiyat has survived hundreds of parodies, that are not really parodies either of Omar or FitzGerald, but only poems written in that form of strophe. ABC _ of reading _ Ezra Pound (I know... you are talking of a book and not a pOm, and you are criticizing the mainstreamers and not... I just value the principle in this context, and I like Lehman's Irony. From: Bob Grumman Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:30 PM Well, I for one think it disgraceful the way these mainstreamers fight with each other. --Bob G. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Apr 16 10:34:29 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:34:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Googlefight In-Reply-To: References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <20060415193116.rjd23yoi8804kgsg@webmail2.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: On Apr 15, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Michael Snider wrote: > But David Graham is, apparently, a god. Just catching up with this thread, and still have no idea what y'all are talking about. But allow me a moment to savor this. . . . ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Apr 16 10:48:38 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:48:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Graham, Google God In-Reply-To: <02ff01c660f7$79ab35d0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <001801c660ed$7cc02280$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <02ff01c660f7$79ab35d0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <388740E2-8223-42F8-A72E-9FA999A9B262@ripon.edu> On Apr 15, 2006, at 8:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > I suspect you were going up against more than one David Graham, > Tad. But I suspect that I had Grumman Aircraft on my side when I > beat Ron Silliman. > > --Bob G. I may well have posted this before, but how often does a thread involve the commonness of my name? One of the most reliable Google hits on "David Graham" will be the saga of my doppelganger a few years back in Texas who, in order to apologize to his girlfriend for having an extracurricular fling, agreed to (and succeeded at) murdering the woman he had the fling with. Self-Portrait As Author And Citizen Any phone book or card catalog shows me my half dozen or more other selves: some disguised by different middle names, some taking refuge entirely in initials, but all betraying the reek of selfhood that cannot deny its own. I have written a book on reincarnation, another on the religious lives of country music stars, and several on the enigmas of cellular development. I can even call myself and ask when I'll be getting home, and the woman who answers is my wife without knowing it, a fact more comforting than it ought to be. Sometimes I'll chat with my child or roommate, but it's a thin charade: I know all my social security numbers when added ould total some prime number, one to its best power, as I have noted in my treatise on algebraic philosophy. Whenever I vote I stand in the world's shortest line in a waiting room just off the municipal courtroom, where a gray-haired woman I've seen somewhere before asks my name and repeats it to another woman in a voice loud enough to ruffle the curtains of the voting booths. Then she places a fat black pencil line through each responsible letter of the name and address I claim. *Second Wind*. Texas Tech University Press, 1990. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 16 10:52:36 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:52:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] David Graham, Google God References: <02d401c660e6$0b710a60$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><02e901c660e7$4aee9760$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><001801c660ed$7cc02280$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress><02ff01c660f7$79ab35d0$40b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <388740E2-8223-42F8-A72E-9FA999A9B262@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <016901c66165$66bea880$2baa3252@ANNY> This is a good one. I am alone in my duality : -Anny- -Ballardini-, hopefully forever. From: David Graham Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:48 PM On Apr 15, 2006, at 8:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: I suspect you were going up against more than one David Graham, Tad. But I suspect that I had Grumman Aircraft on my side when I beat Ron Silliman. --Bob G. I may well have posted this before, but how often does a thread involve the commonness of my name? One of the most reliable Google hits on "David Graham" will be the saga of my doppelganger a few years back in Texas who, in order to apologize to his girlfriend for having an extracurricular fling, agreed to (and succeeded at) murdering the woman he had the fling with. Self-Portrait As Author And Citizen Any phone book or card catalog shows me my half dozen or more other selves: some disguised by different middle names, some taking refuge entirely in initials, but all betraying the reek of selfhood that cannot deny its own. I have written a book on reincarnation, another on the religious lives of country music stars, and several on the enigmas of cellular development. I can even call myself and ask when I'll be getting home, and the woman who answers is my wife without knowing it, a fact more comforting than it ought to be. Sometimes I'll chat with my child or roommate, but it's a thin charade: I know all my social security numbers when added ould total some prime number, one to its best power, as I have noted in my treatise on algebraic philosophy. Whenever I vote I stand in the world's shortest line in a waiting room just off the municipal courtroom, where a gray-haired woman I've seen somewhere before asks my name and repeats it to another woman in a voice loud enough to ruffle the curtains of the voting booths. Then she places a fat black pencil line through each responsible letter of the name and address I claim. *Second Wind*. Texas Tech University Press, 1990. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 16 12:13:42 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:13:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Found Sonnet: This Document Contains No Data" Message-ID: Found Sonnet: This Document Contains No Data While searching without a proxy server from Beijing, receiving search results that link to dajiyuan.com, peacehall.com, and other dissident sites are insufficient to trigger the "This document contains no data." response. For example, searching google.com for Gao Zhisheng (???) also brings up a full page of links that are inaccessible from within China: Epoch Times, Renminbao, Boxun, Radio Free Asia. That's exactly what is so nice about having google.com. It still indexes pages that are inaccessible from inside the GFW. Once you have the link, you can use a proxy server to get there. What gets me a "This document contains no data" error? Well, from here, not Jiang Zemin, Bloody case of Shanwei, Zhao Ziyang, June 4th, Falun Gong (all in Chinese)... So, basically nothing. "No data" may have been a temporary stopgap, and when the sky did not come crashing down because of Freezing Point, someone decided to open it back up again. Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Mon Apr 17 00:52:12 2006 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 23:52:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] reviewers needed: Jacques Roubaud book -- translators Rosmarie & Keith Waldrop Message-ID: <44431EFC.1000605@ilstu.edu> Was emailing with one of the whiz kids at Dalkey Archive Press the other day: Dalkey's looking for reviewers for a new edition of Jacques Roubaud's work translated by the Waldrops. See below for information -- and for the contact info at Dalkey in the event you're interested in reading and reviewing this coolio book. -- Gabe Title: The Form of a City Changes Faster, Alas, Than the Human Heart Author: Jacques Roubaud Translators: Keith and Rosmarie Waldrop Pub Date: July 18, 2006 Pages: 247 Price: $13.95 Galleys: Available for anyone who would like to consider it for review Contact: Chad Post at cwpost at dalkeyarchive.com Jacket Copy: An homage and response to many of France's best-known poets, including Charles Baudelaire and Raymond Queneau, this collection moves through the streets of Paris, commenting on its inhabitants, its writers, its monumental past, and all its possible futures. Moving between honesty and evasion, erudition and lightheartedness, constraint and freedom, THE FORM OF A CITY CHANGES FASTER, ALAS, THAN THE HUMAN HEART explores a Paris that's no long "the one we used to find." A sometimes mocking, sometimes poignant tribute to the City of Light, Jacques Roubaud's poetry is filled with the melancholic playfulness that's made him one of our most important contemporary writers. Author Bio: Jacques Roubaud is the author of numerous books, including the novels Hortense Is Abducted, Hortense in Exile, and The Princess Hoppy, or The Tale of Labrador, as well as the poetry collections Some Thing Black, Plurality of Worlds of Lewis, and The Form of a City Changes Faster, Alas, Than the Human Heart. He is one of the most accomplished members of the Oulipo, an innovative literary group whose members whose members have included Raymond Queneau, Italo Calvino, and Harry Mathews. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 17 03:58:17 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:58:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from today's the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <004201c661f4$afdcb770$a9af3452@ANNY> Poem: "A Lamb By Its Ma" by Chase Twichell, from Dog Language. ? Copper Canyon Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) A Lamb By Its Ma Just before it rains, the lilacs thrash weakly, storm light heightening the clusters drooping at their peak of scent, wind running trough them like slow water, then a splash, mood swing: leaves spangled with drops from inside the storm. Mary made us come inside if there was lighting, flapping a white towel to call us back. We hung around the kitchen drinking tea till it cleared. She brought us tea at bedtime. A good cup of black tea and you'll sleep like a lamb by its ma. She told us that our parents loved us, that their war was theirs alone. She said it in the charged air, in the scent of their absence from the house, their clean absence. If thunder came at night, she told about the brave and faithful dogs of Scotland, how a shepherd knows where his lamb has gone by bits of wool in the wire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 17 05:32:14 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:32:14 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] again on rhyme Message-ID: <006e01c66201$d0212400$a9af3452@ANNY> Here is Pound speaking better and with greater competence for me: Re. is made with Robt. Henrick poem: Violets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By comparison with troubadours the rhyming is infantile. That does not mean that a maximum of singability is unattained. The number of rhymes that can be used to advantage in one language is NOT the numerical measure for any other. In an inflected language like Latin there is such a frequency of -um-arum, -orum and -abat that identical sounds would be intolerable if they were stuck into prominence, or repeated at regular instead of irregular intervals. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, Italian is not an inflected language (as German or Russian still are), but a vocalic language. And what I would like to stress is that identical sounds are very easily repeated if you do not pay attention in separating them and in using them in an irregular way. Irregularity thus brings a new sound -a new way of composing, which is I think, the basis of electronic music, am I right Chris Stroffolino? Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 08:15:33 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20060417121533.80602.qmail@web31813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS Be Here to Love Me A film about Townes Van Zandt Ten years of poetry at the Washington Post 16 grand pianos, 4 drums, 3 xylophones one gong, assorted alarms and a piercing siren - George Antheil makes everyone jump at Dada in DC A selected poems for Louis Zukofsky The Library of America volume Publishers Weekly on poetry and the web Redell Olsen and Drew Milne The place of English Allan Kaprow A marriage poem (my own) 20 years later Zach Barocas ???exactitude/like purity???? The new globalism ??? Mohawk / Samoa Transmigrations On Earth, the last poems of Robert Creeley Lisa Jarnot and Homer Iliad XXII as a political act Stanislaw Lem Watten on Braxton Selah Saterstrom and the Pink Institution - As I Lay Dying as told by Dodie Bellamy Betye, Lezley and Alison Saar 2 generations of African-American art Ian Hamilton Finlay The reversal of text and illustration in the work of Derek Fenner Some links to Anthony Braxton The jumble of unassimilated parts that is Sally Potter???s Yes http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com Mon Apr 17 15:04:17 2006 From: DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 15:04:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan reviews Lehman Message-ID: <200604171918.k3HJIJcm031179@d01av02.pok.ibm.com> I just read Logan's acid-splash of "The Oxford Book of American Verse." Logan doesn't say, but I'll bet William Logan is not present in the anthology. And he's "the greatest poetry critic" according to some women's fashion magazine! Wouldn't you think "the greatest" could find a more original phrase than "no damn good?" Richard From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 17 15:44:41 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:44:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poetry Library References: <648208b60604131204v7b5c7847jae060b7e4f706010@mail.gmail.com> <010901c660a4$d5c83a50$eeae3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <017e01c66257$5f2b7c40$a9af3452@ANNY> or Spencer Selby's list: http://www.selbyslist.com/ You might also wish to check Joel Weishaus' links: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/cew/cew.htm From: "James Cervantes" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:04 PM > Alas, I didn't check to see if you might already have this one. But, > it's goofy fun: http://www.neologisms.us/ > > to which I've contributed: blowstarch: a person whose utterances are > loud, fiery, and have a stiffening effect on any conversation. > > - Jim > > On 4/13/06, David Graham wrote: >> My online Poetry Library has been dormant for some time, for a variety of >> technical and other reasons. Many dead links. Many gaps in coverage. >> >> That's where you come in, oh poetry experts. One of my summer projects will >> be to spiff up, edit, and add to my pages. Suggestions welcome. (Also >> notification of any dead links you find.) >> >> I've already begun the process of cleaning things up, but will probably be >> at it a while. >> >> Anway, I'm always looking for critical articles on poetry, archives of >> online poems, pages devoted to classic & contemporary figures, "toolbox" >> sites such as rhyming dictionaries, organizations devoted to poetry, etc. >> >> URLs for my pages are in my signature below. I have a home page and a >> library page, both with many links. >> >> One note: I like linking to people's home pages, but not when they're just >> advertisements for buying books, or mainly non-literary in nature. I am in >> favor of buying books, as it happens, but my links tend to favor those sites >> that have generous samples of poems, critical articles, and other >> informative comment. >> >> One further note: So far, I've not moved into the blog world, either. >> Unsure whether that's a base I need to cover, since most blogs have lengthy >> lists of links to other blogs already. >> >> ==================================================== >> David Graham >> grahamd at ripon.edu >> Home Page: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >> Poetry Library: >> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >> ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 17 18:25:23 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:25:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan reviews Lehman References: <200604171918.k3HJIJcm031179@d01av02.pok.ibm.com> Message-ID: <007801c6626d$d2496320$5cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Now that we're discussing Logan as a critic again, a question occurred to me. I bring it up in the entry to my blog today. Who are the critics considered to be our country's major critics of poetry today? Only three names come to my mind, but I have to say I read very few mainstream critics, and they are the only ones I'd count as being considered major. The three names are Bloom, Vendler and Perloff. But I just thought of Denis Donaghue (either of whose names I've no doubt mispelled). Who else? Would Logan qualify? I read him all the time--because I get the New Criterion--but is he really well known? Gioia, as a critic? Now that Silliman is the top critic of serious poetry on the Internet, would he qualify? Would Dan Schneider, who may be the most read commentator on poetry on the Internet (and does comment on serious poetry)? (Hey, I think I'll see if Ron and I together can beat him in a googlefight. I already fought him by myself and lost pretty badly.) --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Apr 17 18:30:54 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:30:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] My Latest Googlefight References: <200604171918.k3HJIJcm031179@d01av02.pok.ibm.com> Message-ID: <007b01c6626e$97408370$5cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I tried "Ron Silliman" or "Bob Grumman" versus "Dan Schneider" but Ron and I got a lower score together than either of us did singly, which doesn't make much sense. I also suspect that there are more than one Dan Schneiders active on the Internet. --Bob G. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 18 02:36:23 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:36:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from the Writer's Almanac Message-ID: <002701c662b2$69a35390$b6d73152@ANNY> "Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire" by Robert Phillips from Circumstances Beyond Our Control: Poems. ? Johns Hopkins University Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now) Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire I, Rose Rosenfeld, am one of the workers who survived. Before the inferno broke out, factory doors had been locked by the owners, ----to keep us at our sewing machines, ----to keep us from stealing scraps of cloth. ----I said to myself, What are the bosses doing? ----I knew they would save themselves. I left my big-button-attacher machine, climbed the iron stairs to the tenth floor where their offices were. From the landing window ----I saw girls in shirtwaists flying by, ----Catherine wheels projected like Zeppelins ----out open windows, then plunging downward, ----sighing skirts open parasols on fire. I found the big shots stuffing themselves into the freight elevator going to the roof. I squeezed in. While our girls were falling, ----we ascended like ashes. Firemen ----yanked us onto the next-door roof. ----I sank to the tarpaper, sobbed for ----one-hundred forty-six comrades dying or dead down below. One was Rebecca, my only close friend, a forewoman kind to workers. Like the others, she burned like a prism. ----Relatives of twenty-three victims later -------Brought suits. ----Each family was awarded seventy-five dollars. ----It was like the Titanic the very next year- ----No one cared about the souls in steerage. Those doors were locked, too, a sweatshop at sea. They died due to ice, not fire. I live in Southern California now. But I still see ----skirts rippling like parachutes, ----girls hit the cobblestones, smell smoke, ----burnt flesh, girls cracking like cheap buttons, ----disappearing like so many dropped stitches. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LauraHeidy at aol.com Tue Apr 18 10:06:41 2006 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:06:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize Message-ID: <38b.dd30dd.31764c71@aol.com> A formalist....now that's what I like to hear!!! Lo _Terminal Chaosity_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/) http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: media at poetryfoundation.org Subject: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:42:12 -0400 Size: 7562 URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 10:43:05 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:43:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: A poem from this year's Pulitzer winner: Artifact For three years you lived in your house just as it was before she died: your wedding portrait on the mantel, her clothes hanging in the closet, her hair still in the brush. You have told me you gave it all away then, sold the house, keeping the confirmation cross she wore, her name in cursive chased on the gold underside, your ring in the same box, those photographs you still avoid, and the quilt you spread on your borrowed bed ? small things. Months after we met, you told me she had made it, after we had slept already beneath its loft and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. --Claudia Emerson. Late Wife. LSU Press, 2005 ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 12:15:29 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:15:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One possibly revealing fact about this year's Pulitzer: none of the finalists were from Farrar Straus Giroux! None from New York trade publishers, in fact. It's not news that much of the most interesting poetry appears from university and small presses, of course; that's been true for a long time. But usually FSG & other big presses appear amidst the nominees for the larger prizes, it seems. The other finalists were: "American Sublime" by Elizabeth Alexander (Graywolf Press), and "Elegy on Toy Piano" by Dean Young (University of Pittsburgh Press). The jurors this year: Mary Karr, Jesse Truesdell Peck Professor of Literature, Syracuse University (Chair) Michael Harper, poet and professor, Brown University Ted Kooser, U.S. Poet Laureate 2004-2006, Garland, NE > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 12:22:51 2006 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:22:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C8311B791784EA-18C-787B@FWM-D34.sysops.aol.com> Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. Al -----Original Message----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:43:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise A poem from this year's Pulitzer winner: Artifact For three years you lived in your house just as it was before she died: your wedding portrait on the mantel, her clothes hanging in the closet, her hair still in the brush. You have told me you gave it all away then, sold the house, keeping the confirmation cross she wore, her name in cursive chased on the gold underside, your ring in the same box, those photographs you still avoid, and the quilt you spread on your borrowed bed ? small things. Months after we met, you told me she had made it, after we had slept already beneath its loft and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. --Claudia Emerson. Late Wife. LSU Press, 2005 ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 18 13:00:33 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:00:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <30f.354b6c2.31767531@aol.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, almaginnes at aol.com writes: Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 18 06:04:51 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:04:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/18/06 9:43 AM, "David Graham" wrote: > A poem from this year's Pulitzer winner: > > Artifact > > For three years you lived in your house > just as it was before she died: your wedding > portrait on the mantel, her clothes hanging > in the closet, her hair still in the brush. > You have told me you gave it all away > then, sold the house, keeping the confirmation > cross she wore, her name in cursive chased > on the gold underside, your ring in the same > > box, those photographs you still avoid, > and the quilt you spread on your borrowed bed ? > small things. Months after we met, you told me she had > made it, after we had slept already beneath its loft > and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath > her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. > > > --Claudia Emerson. Late Wife. LSU Press, 2005 > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Well, it looks like a sonnet. The only thing missing is meter, real rhymes, and rich poetic language. Why bother to learn to craft poetry when you can win the Pulitzer with stuff like this? No wonder the word ?Pulitzer? only evokes yawns and cynical smiles from poets. The only real heft the word now has is what it lends to resumes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 13:20:21 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:20:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <2aa.2bd0944.317679d5@aol.com> It was certainly the best of the finalist books. Good? Yes. Great? Time will tell. Read the book and let me know what you think. Until you've read the work, you can't really judge, can you? In a message dated 4/18/2006 1:01:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 18 13:47:13 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: <30f.354b6c2.31767531@aol.com> References: <30f.354b6c2.31767531@aol.com> Message-ID: Hey, she's a Virginian who's published a few books in Louisiana. What else could we want? Btw, maybe it's time to start listing all the other poets who haven't put in an appearance hereabouts. Then, we won't be surprised next year . . . or the year after, etc. Hal "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:00 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > almaginnes at aol.com writes: > Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a > lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's > last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the > accolades it gets. > > I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name > associated with > major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or > great book? > I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only > opinion...but is there something > special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer > Prize? > Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in > general) may be, > the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and > cache among > the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the > first thing > said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a > Nobel or finds > a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this > earth. > > Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets > names appear > in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be > first time Claudia Emerson > was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real > fanfare. Or is it a fanfare > ending in diminuendo. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 18 13:49:09 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:49:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9410CFED-CC90-47AD-87F9-CB499CD2BD53@earthlink.net> Hmm, and I thought it was the word "sonnet" that evoked "yawns and cynical smiles," but what do I know? "The only thing that is not art is inattention." --Marcel Duchamp Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 18, 2006, at 6:04 AM, Paul Lake wrote: > > Well, it looks like a sonnet. The only thing missing is meter, real > rhymes, and rich poetic language. Why bother to learn to craft > poetry when you can win the Pulitzer with stuff like this? No > wonder the word ?Pulitzer? only evokes yawns and cynical smiles > from poets. The only real heft the word now has is what it lends to > resumes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 18 13:51:45 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:51:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <30b.34e1e89.31768131@aol.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 1:21:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: Good? Yes. Great? Time will tell. Read the book and let me know what you think. Until you've read the work, you can't really judge, can you? No, I can't, but you must have and you're not telling me to run right out and buy it because it's a book that shouldn't be missed. Lots of good books are published ever year--is it a lottery selection or is there something special about it that deserves a gold embossed seal stuck on the cover? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 18 07:00:18 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 06:00:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: <9410CFED-CC90-47AD-87F9-CB499CD2BD53@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 4/18/06 12:49 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Hmm, and I thought it was the word "sonnet" > that evoked "yawns and cynical smiles," but > what do I know? It?s true that the word ?sonnet? does evoke many a yawn, but if a poet is going to write one, he or she should at least do a competent job of it. Baseball makes a lot of people yawn, too. I can go to a baseball fantasy camp and maybe put on a Yankee uniform and take a few swings at major league pitching, but that doesn?t make me a real ball player. Anyone who would give me the MVP after a season of such laughable incompetence is about as bright as, well, this year?s Pulitzer judges. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 14:11:03 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] last comment on Heaney In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060418181103.62520.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I had time to draw together my thoughts on Heaney over the weekend. Heaney reduces real history to the level of myth coupled with a nostalgic backwards glance at an Ireland of the imagination that never existed. The golden glow of peat fires, traditional crafts and craftswo\men (have you noticed that there are no craftswomen in Heaney?), wee Irish cottages, an awful mythos. The whole thing, for a person born in Belfast, is quite disturbing and appeals to Irish Americans who feel a deep nostalgia for their roots and origins. Writers like Heaney fed the flames of hatred in Ireland by their anti-Marxist, anti-Modernist stance. That?s why I quite like Yeats. Yeats never rejected Modernism but (as we all know) flirted with fascism at the end of his life, because the IRA (and earlier the IRB, who Yeats also belonged to) had their roots and origins in fascism and anti-semitism. (Because they were an organisation deeply rooted in Catholicism which had always been very fascist and anti-semitic and had welcomed and condoned the Nazi Holocaust). Heaney also belongs to the tradition of nostalgia, myth-making, hatred and violence in Ireland, although he makes sure to condemn both. As his mask of humanism peels off, we can see the traditional face of fascism glaringly in his work. Heaney condemns fascism and barbarism but makes appealing metaphors of fascism and barbarism to ?xplain?the political crisis in the North. But it isnt explained at all, is it? Instead, what he claims to deconstruct is maintained by his poetasting. The whole thing is basically a crude poeticism of unimaginable cruelty, barbarism on both sides and no real addition to anything we know. A real attempt at mystification of the real problems that faced the Province and lead it into chaos. best wishes, Paul Murphy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 18 14:16:57 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:16:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If sonnet writing were like baseball, you might have a point, Paul. But there's no rule book when it comes to writing sonnets (or any other sort of poetry). "We are the zanies of sorrow." --Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 18, 2006, at 7:00 AM, Paul Lake wrote: > On 4/18/06 12:49 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > >> Hmm, and I thought it was the word "sonnet" >> that evoked "yawns and cynical smiles," but >> what do I know? > > It?s true that the word ?sonnet? does evoke many a yawn, but if a > poet is going to write one, he or she should at least do a > competent job of it. Baseball makes a lot of people yawn, too. I > can go to a baseball fantasy camp and maybe put on a Yankee uniform > and take a few swings at major league pitching, but that doesn?t > make me a real ball player. Anyone who would give me the MVP after > a season of such laughable incompetence is about as bright as, > well, this year?s Pulitzer judges. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 14:37:48 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:37:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/18/06 5:04 AM, "Paul Lake" wrote: >> Artifact >> >> For three years you lived in your house >> just as it was before she died: your wedding >> portrait on the mantel, her clothes hanging >> in the closet, her hair still in the brush. >> You have told me you gave it all away >> then, sold the house, keeping the confirmation >> cross she wore, her name in cursive chased >> on the gold underside, your ring in the same >> >> box, those photographs you still avoid, >> and the quilt you spread on your borrowed bed ? >> small things. Months after we met, you told me she had >> made it, after we had slept already beneath its loft >> and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath >> her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. >> >> >> --Claudia Emerson. Late Wife. LSU Press, 2005 >> >> >> > > Well, it looks like a sonnet. The only thing missing is meter, real rhymes, > and rich poetic language. Why bother to learn to craft poetry when you can win > the Pulitzer with stuff like this? No wonder the word ?Pulitzer? only evokes > yawns and cynical smiles from poets. The only real heft the word now has is > what it lends to resumes. > ==================================================== > > Paul, you can do better than that! > > For one thing, I don't know if Emerson calls this poem a sonnet, actually. In > any case, it seems to me that one can't reasonably accuse her of failing to > write one if she didn't try. > > Secondly, I really did think we were beyond (by, oh, at least about a century) > considering free verse and flirtations with the ghost of meter as somehow > illegitimate. As for "real" rhymes, well, let's just say that my own > definition is unwilling to throw out Emily Dickinson because she often > eschewed moon/June/soon rhyming. > > None of which is to say that the above poem is a masterpiece, or that Emerson > did or didn't deserve her award. But I venture to say that "rich poetic > language" is not only in the ear of the listener, but arrayed along quite a > spectrum, from Hopkins & Thomas, say, near one end, and perhaps Williams & the > Eliot of the Quartets toward the other end. Lots of floors in the Tower of > Song, ya know. . . . > > Personally, I rather like Emerson's concluding lines, sonically speaking: > > after we had slept already beneath its loft >> and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath > her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. > > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 14:57:45 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:57:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Near miss Message-ID: And here's a poem from one of the other Pulitzer finalists: Evening Primrose Beauty doesn?t only reside in bodies but bodies present the strongest evidence of its presence and cruelty as it flies away. A million maggots wriggle the giraffe?s wound. The flood leaves behind its mud in the lunette. I?m tired of this real estate agent, says Beauty, and leaps into the lumpish baby just as one moves from the walk-through above the city of singing garbage men to the hear-the-waves-from-here beach shack. It is true that wherever Beauty goes it will not stay, but can it be delayed? Yes. Epoxy. Zipper replaced, neck adjusted, avoidance of UV rays. Can Beauty come back when it hath gone? Yep. After adolescence. Look at this tree that was beautiful when its blossoms twittered in the leftward breeze but then went through a bark-scab, leaf- splotched phase but now is beautiful again albeit kinda spooky. So you can see death is no guarantee one way or the other. The monkey pulls his beard, the tenor loses his ping, the sports car smashed to a dot. Faulkner in and out of print. Bell bottoms. The tree stands on its chunk of dirt hurtling through the void, not even holding onto a strap. Dreams are oblong, squeezed between dark columns. In the hallways run a hundred children in blue capes. Dean Young Elegy on Toy Piano University of Pittsburgh Press, 2005. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 15:01:47 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:01:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Near miss II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And finally, a poem from the other Pulitzer finalist: Autumn Passage On suffering, which is real. On the mouth that never closes, the air that dries the mouth. On the miraculous dying body, its greens and purples. On the beauty of hair itself. On the dazzling toddler: "Like eggplant," he says, when you say "Vegetable," "Chrysanthemum" to "Flower." On his grandmother's suffering, larger than vanished skyscrapers, September zucchini, other things too big. For her glory that goes along with it, glory of grown children's vigil, communal fealty, glory of the body that operates even as it falls apart, the body that can no longer even make fever but nonetheless burns florid and bright and magnificent as it dims, as it shrinks, as it turns to something else. Elizabeth Alexander American Sublime Graywolf Press ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 18 08:02:21 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:02:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/18/06 1:16 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > If sonnet writing were like baseball, you might have > a point, Paul. But there's no rule book when it comes > to writing sonnets (or any other sort of poetry). Hal, there are all sorts of rules for all sorts of poetry. If you write a ballad stanza, the poem has different rules from blank verse. Forms are defined by the rules that bring them into being in a way similar to how chess is brought into being by the rules of chess. A line of trochaic pentameter is by definition not a line of dactylic hexameter or a line of iambic trimeter. A triolet has different rules from heroic couplets. If a batter demands a fourth strike, the umpire will still say he?s out. If a poet writes a fourteen line poem divided into an an octave and a sestet and makes the lines all look about the same length but doesn?t use meter and mangles every rule of rhyme to produce a poem in which the rhymes are irregularly spaced, inaudible or only clumsily similar when present at all, and then also mechanically breaks her lines at awkward places to ill effect, I?m going to ignore the Pulitzer judges and the poet?s special pleading for a fourth strike and say, ?You?re outta here!? Now there are poets like Kay Ryan who invent their own successful rules by modulating traditional rules and patterns to invent their own, and there are ?free verse? poems of various stripes, some of which have successfully invented shifting patterns of great subtlety and artfulness, but that?s a different matter. Even playing catch has a loose set of rules. I don?t want to play catch with someone who throws the ball thirty feet over my head and then deliberately misses catching the ball and insists I go chase it down and throw it back to him instead. As a reader, I demand similar rules. If you wanna play catch, just throw the ball a little bit out of my reach now and then or wing one hard and fast to change the pace, but don?t throw it all over the damn neighborhood and then tell me that?s how you play catch. Robert Francis has some good poems about baseball where he?s really talking about poetry?like ?The Pitcher? and the following: ? Catch ? ? Two boys uncoached are tossing a poem together, Overhand, underhand, backhand, sleight of hand, everyhand, Teasing with attitudes, latitudes, interludes, altitudes, High, make him fly off the ground for it, low, make him stoop, Make him scoop it up, make him as-almost-as possible miss it, Fast, let him sting from it, now, now fool him slowly, Anything, everything tricky, risky, nonchalant, Anything under the sun to outwit the prosy, Over the tree and the long sweet cadence down, Over his head, make him scramble to pick up the meaning, And now, like a posy, a pretty one plump in his hands. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 18 08:11:54 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:11:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David, this poem is deliberately laid out to look like a sonnet, down to the space break between octave and sestet. I don?t mind encountering the ghost of meter in poems of a certain type, but the poem below presents us with the corpse of meter. The rhymes also allude to the sonnet pattern without actually evoking it. She tried to write a sonnet, or bamboozle the tin-eared into thinking she had. But she failed. The rest of her book might be great, and the author may have earned her Pulitzer, but ?Artifact? is?to continue my baseball metaphor?a popup to the second baseman, not a line drive base hit. On 4/18/06 1:37 PM, "David Graham" wrote: > > > > On 4/18/06 5:04 AM, "Paul Lake" wrote: > >>> Artifact >>> >>> For three years you lived in your house >>> just as it was before she died: your wedding >>> portrait on the mantel, her clothes hanging >>> in the closet, her hair still in the brush. >>> You have told me you gave it all away >>> then, sold the house, keeping the confirmation >>> cross she wore, her name in cursive chased >>> on the gold underside, your ring in the same >>> >>> box, those photographs you still avoid, >>> and the quilt you spread on your borrowed bed ? >>> small things. Months after we met, you told me she had >>> made it, after we had slept already beneath its loft >>> and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath >>> her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. >>> >>> >>> --Claudia Emerson. Late Wife. LSU Press, 2005 >>> >>> >>> >> >> Well, it looks like a sonnet. The only thing missing is meter, real rhymes, >> and rich poetic language. Why bother to learn to craft poetry when you can >> win the Pulitzer with stuff like this? No wonder the word ?Pulitzer? only >> evokes yawns and cynical smiles from poets. The only real heft the word now >> has is what it lends to resumes. >> ==================================================== >> >> Paul, you can do better than that! >> >> For one thing, I don't know if Emerson calls this poem a sonnet, actually. >> In any case, it seems to me that one can't reasonably accuse her of failing >> to write one if she didn't try. >> >> Secondly, I really did think we were beyond (by, oh, at least about a >> century) considering free verse and flirtations with the ghost of meter as >> somehow illegitimate. As for "real" rhymes, well, let's just say that my >> own definition is unwilling to throw out Emily Dickinson because she often >> eschewed moon/June/soon rhyming. >> >> None of which is to say that the above poem is a masterpiece, or that Emerson >> did or didn't deserve her award. But I venture to say that "rich poetic >> language" is not only in the ear of the listener, but arrayed along quite a >> spectrum, from Hopkins & Thomas, say, near one end, and perhaps Williams & >> the Eliot of the Quartets toward the other end. Lots of floors in the Tower >> of Song, ya know. . . . >> >> Personally, I rather like Emerson's concluding lines, sonically speaking: >> >> after we had slept already beneath its loft >>> and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath >> her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. >> >> > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mac.com Tue Apr 18 15:28:31 2006 From: mandolin at mac.com (Mike Snider) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:28:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets In-Reply-To: <739117.1145388420993.JavaMail.ashul@mac.com> References: <739117.1145388420993.JavaMail.ashul@mac.com> Message-ID: <6745388.1145388511867.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> On Tuesday, April 18, 2006, at 03:05PM, Paul Lake wrote: > ><>_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Re: Baseball and Sonnets On 4/18/06 1:16 PM, "Halvard Johnson" <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:

If sonnet writing were like baseball, you might have
a point, Paul. But there's no rule book when it comes
to writing sonnets (or any other sort of poetry).

Hal, there are all sorts of rules for all sorts of poetry. If you write a ballad stanza, the poem has different rules from blank verse. Forms are defined by the rules that bring them into being in a way similar to how chess is brought into being by the rules of chess.  A line of trochaic pentameter is by definition not a line of dactylic hexameter or a line of iambic trimeter.  A triolet has different rules from heroic couplets.  If a batter demands a fourth strike, the umpire will still say he’s out. If a poet writes a fourteen line poem divided into an an octave and a sestet and makes the lines all look about the same length but doesn’t use meter and mangles every rule of rhyme to produce a poem in which the rhymes are irregularly spaced, inaudible or only clumsily similar when present at all, and then also mechanically breaks her lines at awkward places to ill effect, I’m going to ignore the Pulitzer judges and the poet’s special pleading for a fourth strike and say, “You’re outta here!”

Now there are poets like Kay Ryan who invent their own successful rules by modulating traditional rules and patterns to invent their own, and there are “free verse” poems of various stripes, some of which have successfully invented shifting patterns of great subtlety and artfulness, but that’s a different matter.  Even playing catch has a loose set of rules. I don’t want to play catch with someone who throws the ball thirty feet over my head and then deliberately misses catching the ball and insists I go chase it down and throw it back to him instead. As a reader, I demand similar rules. If you wanna play catch, just throw the ball a little bit out of my reach now and then or wing one hard and fast to change the pace, but don’t throw it all over the damn neighborhood and then tell me that’s how you play catch. Robert Francis has some good poems about baseball where he’s really talking about poetry—like “The Pitcher” and the following:

?    Catch
?

?    Two boys uncoached are tossing a poem together,
Overhand, underhand, backhand, sleight of hand, everyhand,
Teasing with attitudes, latitudes, interludes, altitudes,
High, make him fly off the ground for it, low, make him stoop,
Make him scoop it up, make him as-almost-as possible miss it,
Fast, let him sting from it, now, now fool him slowly,
Anything, everything tricky, risky, nonchalant,
Anything under the sun to outwit the prosy,
Over the tree and the long sweet cadence down,
Over his head, make him scramble to pick up the meaning,
And now, like a posy, a pretty one plump in his hands.
I rather like the last image, but the stanza break really irks me, deliberating marking an octave and sestet which don't exist without that break, which aren't even ironically absent. I don't know whether Emerson calls it a sonnet, but it certainly seems to trade on "sonneticity" (Kasey Mohammad's term). ----- Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. http://www.mikesnider.org/formalblog for the Sonnetarium From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 18 08:26:57 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:26:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Near miss II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I?m sure I?m not alone in feeling honored NOT to be included among these All Stars of contemporary poetry. I?d rather run down the halls with those children in blue capes. On 4/18/06 2:01 PM, "David Graham" wrote: > > And finally, a poem from the other Pulitzer finalist: > > > Autumn Passage > > On suffering, which is real. > On the mouth that never closes, > the air that dries the mouth. > > On the miraculous dying body, > its greens and purples. > On the beauty of hair itself. > > On the dazzling toddler: > "Like eggplant," he says, > when you say "Vegetable," > > "Chrysanthemum" to "Flower." > On his grandmother's suffering, larger > than vanished skyscrapers, > > September zucchini, > other things too big. For her glory > that goes along with it, > > glory of grown children's vigil, > communal fealty, glory > of the body that operates > > even as it falls apart, the body > that can no longer even make fever > but nonetheless burns > > florid and bright and magnificent > as it dims, as it shrinks, > as it turns to something else. > > > Elizabeth Alexander > American Sublime > Graywolf Press > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 18 15:46:25 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:46:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Message from Kerry O'Keefe References: Message-ID: Kerry O'Keefe asked that I pass the following announcement along to all assembled here: > My chapbook was released a couple of months ago by March Street Press. > The title is FROM A BURNING BUILDING. The St. Francis poem is the > first > poem in the book. "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Apr 18 15:51:35 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:51:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8939E166-A86B-4B9B-8BE0-A33494825916@earthlink.net> You may call them "rules," Paul, but, as for me . . . well, as Francis Urquhart used to say, "I wouldn't care to comment." Hal "Never eat anything larger than your head." --B. Kliban Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Paul Lake wrote: > On 4/18/06 1:16 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > >> If sonnet writing were like baseball, you might have >> a point, Paul. But there's no rule book when it comes >> to writing sonnets (or any other sort of poetry). > > Hal, there are all sorts of rules for all sorts of poetry. If you > write a ballad stanza, the poem has different rules from blank > verse. Forms are defined by the rules that bring them into being in > a way similar to how chess is brought into being by the rules of > chess. A line of trochaic pentameter is by definition not a line > of dactylic hexameter or a line of iambic trimeter. A triolet has > different rules from heroic couplets. If a batter demands a fourth > strike, the umpire will still say he?s out. If a poet writes a > fourteen line poem divided into an an octave and a sestet and makes > the lines all look about the same length but doesn?t use meter and > mangles every rule of rhyme to produce a poem in which the rhymes > are irregularly spaced, inaudible or only clumsily similar when > present at all, and then also mechanically breaks her lines at > awkward places to ill effect, I?m going to ignore the Pulitzer > judges and the poet?s special pleading for a fourth strike and say, > ?You?re outta here!? > > Now there are poets like Kay Ryan who invent their own successful > rules by modulating traditional rules and patterns to invent their > own, and there are ?free verse? poems of various stripes, some of > which have successfully invented shifting patterns of great > subtlety and artfulness, but that?s a different matter. Even > playing catch has a loose set of rules. I don?t want to play catch > with someone who throws the ball thirty feet over my head and then > deliberately misses catching the ball and insists I go chase it > down and throw it back to him instead. As a reader, I demand > similar rules. If you wanna play catch, just throw the ball a > little bit out of my reach now and then or wing one hard and fast > to change the pace, but don?t throw it all over the damn > neighborhood and then tell me that?s how you play catch. Robert > Francis has some good poems about baseball where he?s really > talking about poetry?like ?The Pitcher? and the following: > > ? Catch > ? > > ? Two boys uncoached are tossing a poem together, > Overhand, underhand, backhand, sleight of hand, everyhand, > Teasing with attitudes, latitudes, interludes, altitudes, > High, make him fly off the ground for it, low, make him stoop, > Make him scoop it up, make him as-almost-as possible miss it, > Fast, let him sting from it, now, now fool him slowly, > Anything, everything tricky, risky, nonchalant, > Anything under the sun to outwit the prosy, > Over the tree and the long sweet cadence down, > Over his head, make him scramble to pick up the meaning, > And now, like a posy, a pretty one plump in his hands. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 18 16:04:42 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:04:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Near miss II References: Message-ID: <009301c66323$555dbe90$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Re: [New-Poetry] Near miss II I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling honored NOT to be included among these All Stars of contemporary poetry. I'd rather run down the halls with those children in blue capes. My impression is that just about everyone posting on this to the Poetics list would agree with you, Paul. The poem by Emerson that David quoted Was presented as a conclusive piece of evidence for their view. My own view of it need not be stated since it would surprise no one at New-Poetry. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 18 16:11:01 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:11:01 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Near miss II References: Message-ID: <009a01c66324$38df7960$73ab3452@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] Near miss IIIt wasn't that bad all together until I got to those _zucchini_ how can you put _zucchini_ in a poem? Re.: Emerson and that only poem circulating all around, I remember I had read it before, probably on the net, and the second time I got to it on the Buffalo or WOM-PO yesterday, I recognized it, while I could not remember who was Emerson. It must have something in it. Maybe those last lines David quoted, or the said/unsaid that goes on, unexpressed emotions, there is a _tension somewhere. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Near miss II I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling honored NOT to be included among these All Stars of contemporary poetry. I'd rather run down the halls with those children in blue capes. On 4/18/06 2:01 PM, "David Graham" wrote: And finally, a poem from the other Pulitzer finalist: Autumn Passage On suffering, which is real. On the mouth that never closes, the air that dries the mouth. On the miraculous dying body, its greens and purples. On the beauty of hair itself. On the dazzling toddler: "Like eggplant," he says, when you say "Vegetable," "Chrysanthemum" to "Flower." On his grandmother's suffering, larger than vanished skyscrapers, September zucchini, other things too big. For her glory that goes along with it, glory of grown children's vigil, communal fealty, glory of the body that operates even as it falls apart, the body that can no longer even make fever but nonetheless burns florid and bright and magnificent as it dims, as it shrinks, as it turns to something else. Elizabeth Alexander American Sublime Graywolf Press ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 16:17:34 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:17:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson Message-ID: <39b.ca9464.3176a35e@aol.com> Doubt taht this will stop hte grumbling (hey I'm hte one who should be jealous! I published a book last year too!), but ehrea re some other poems from Claudia Emerson: (http://www.blackbird.vcu.edu/v2n1/poetry/emerson_c/hunting_print.htm) CLAUDIA EMERSON Surface Hunting You always washed artifacts at the kitchen sink, your back to the room, to me, to the mud you'd tracked in from whatever neighbor's field had just been plowed. Spearpoints, birdpoints, awls and leaf- shaped blades surfaced from the turned earth as though from beneath some thicker water you tried to see into. You never tired, you told me, of the tangible past you could admire, turn over and over in your hand?the first to touch it since the dead one that had worked the stone. You lined bookshelves and end tables with them; obsidian, quartz, flint, they measured the hours you'd spent with your head down, searching for others, and also the prized hours of my own solitude?collected, prized, saved alongside those artifacts that had been for so long lost. ____________________________________ (http://www.blackbird.vcu.edu/v2n1/poetry/emerson_c/possessions_print.htm) CLAUDIA EMERSON Possessions I sent you a list of what I wanted, and you boxed it up carelessly, as though for the backs of strangers, or for the fire, the way you might have handled a dead woman's possessions?when you could no longer bear to touch them, the clothes still fragrant, worn, still that reminiscent of the body. Or perhaps your lover packed the many boxes herself, released from secret into fury, that sick of the scent of me in the bed, that wary of her face caught in my mirror?something I said I didn't want, where I would not see myself again. (http://www.blackbird.vcu.edu/v2n1/poetry/emerson_c/horseshoes_print.htm) CLAUDIA EMERSON Pitching Horseshoes Some of your buddies might come around for a couple of beers and a game, but most evenings, you pitched horseshoes alone. I washed up the dishes or watered the garden to the thudding sound of the horseshoe in the pit, or the practiced ring of metal against metal, after the silent arc?end over end. That last summer you played a seamless, unscored game against yourself, or night falling, or coming in the house. You were good at it. From the porch I watched you become shadowless, then featureless, until I knew you couldn't see either, and still the dusk rang out, your aim that easy; between the iron stakes you had driven into the hard earth yourself, you paced back and forth as if there were a decision to make, and you were the one to make it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 16:20:02 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:20:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson part 2 Message-ID: <2f7.3c0e0d3.3176a3f2@aol.com> >From her first book PHAROH PHAROH Stable One rusty horseshoe hangs on a nail above the door, still losing its luck, and a work-collar swings, an empty old noose. The silence waits, wild to be broken by hoofbeat and heavy harness slap, will founder but remain; while, outside, above the stable, eight, nine, now ten buzzards swing low in lazy loops, a loose black warp of patience, bearing the blank sky like a pall of wind on mourning wings. But the bones of this place are long picked clean. Only the hayrake's ribs still rise from the rampant grasses. Second Bearing, 1919 ?for my father I have asked him to tell it?how he heard the curing barn took hours to burn, the logs thick, accustomed to heat?how, even when it was clear all was lost, the barn and the tobacco fields within it, they threw water instead on the nearby peach tree, intent on saving something, sure, though, the heat had killed it, the bark charred black. But in late fall, the tree broke into bloom, perhaps having misunderstood the fire to be some brief, backward winter. Blossoms whitened, opened. Peaches appeared against the season?an answer, an argument. Word carried. People claimed the fruit was sweeter for being out of time. They rode miles to see it. He remembers my grandfather saying, his mouth full, this is a sign, and the one my father was given to eat?the down the same, soft as any other, inside the color of cream, juice clear as water, but wait, wait; he holds his cupped hand up as though for me to see again there is no seed, no pit to come to?that it is infertile, and endless somehow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 18 16:23:09 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:23:09 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Message from Kerry O'Keefe References: Message-ID: <00ef01c66325$e8fccfe0$73ab3452@ANNY> Happy for Kerry! Tell her to come around some time as she used to From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:46 PM Kerry O'Keefe asked that I pass the following announcement along to all assembled here: My chapbook was released a couple of months ago by March Street Press. The title is FROM A BURNING BUILDING. The St. Francis poem is the first poem in the book. "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 16:25:05 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:25:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise References: Message-ID: <004b01c66326$2fc49fc0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Pullet SurpriseI'd have to see more before I made up my mind, as this is the first poem of hers I've ever read. It's good, but I'm not so sure it transports me. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise A poem from this year's Pulitzer winner: Artifact For three years you lived in your house just as it was before she died: your wedding portrait on the mantel, her clothes hanging in the closet, her hair still in the brush. You have told me you gave it all away then, sold the house, keeping the confirmation cross she wore, her name in cursive chased on the gold underside, your ring in the same box, those photographs you still avoid, and the quilt you spread on your borrowed bed - small things. Months after we met, you told me she had made it, after we had slept already beneath its loft and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft. --Claudia Emerson. Late Wife. LSU Press, 2005 ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 16:29:21 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:29:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise References: <30f.354b6c2.31767531@aol.com> Message-ID: <008c01c66326$c66b36a0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I think I'm with JforJames here. I also am the kind of guy who votes for the aging star for the AllStar team, over the unproven kid who's having a hot first half of the season. There should be a kind of heft to the pullet surprise. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, almaginnes at aol.com writes: Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 16:40:14 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:40:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise References: Message-ID: <014a01c66328$4c04ea30$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Well, there's a rule book by sort of general consensus -- which is actually the case with baseball (How about those Mets!) too, although the consensus is more strictly adhered to there. You can shatter the rule book, the way Hal does, but you wonder a bit if the poem seems to stay close enough to the rules that one might almost believe she was trying to follow them. On the other hand, who says this is a sonnet? She doesn't. It's just a poem 14 lines long, with an octet and a sestet, called "Artifact." Or maybe it is an artifact. Or maybe that's the type of poem it is. As in, "write me an artifact -- you know, one of those 14-line poems that doesn't particularly follow any other rules, but doesn't particularly not follow them either, whatever they are." ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise If sonnet writing were like baseball, you might have a point, Paul. But there's no rule book when it comes to writing sonnets (or any other sort of poetry). "We are the zanies of sorrow." --Oscar Wilde Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 18, 2006, at 7:00 AM, Paul Lake wrote: On 4/18/06 12:49 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: Hmm, and I thought it was the word "sonnet" that evoked "yawns and cynical smiles," but what do I know? It?s true that the word ?sonnet? does evoke many a yawn, but if a poet is going to write one, he or she should at least do a competent job of it. Baseball makes a lot of people yawn, too. I can go to a baseball fantasy camp and maybe put on a Yankee uniform and take a few swings at major league pitching, but that doesn?t make me a real ball player. Anyone who would give me the MVP after a season of such laughable incompetence is about as bright as, well, this year?s Pulitzer judges. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Apr 18 09:36:15 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:36:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson In-Reply-To: <39b.ca9464.3176a35e@aol.com> Message-ID: I know it?s pointless to harp on it, and that any comments on a Pulitzer winner sounds like sour grapes, but, really, the secret to Emerson?s work seems to be banal language and trite observations dressed up in meticulously symmetrical stanzas determined by the measurement of a ruler. Let?s just abolish the Pulitzer in poetry. Or ignore it. On 4/18/06 3:17 PM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" wrote: > Doubt taht this will stop hte grumbling (hey I'm hte one who should be > jealous! I published a book last year too!), but ehrea re some other poems > from Claudia Emerson: > > > CLAUDIA EMERSON > Surface Hunting > > You always washed artifacts > at the kitchen sink, your back > to the room, to me, to the mud > > you'd tracked in from whatever > neighbor's field had just been plowed. > Spearpoints, birdpoints, awls and leaf- > > shaped blades surfaced from the turned earth > as though from beneath some thicker > water you tried to see into. > > You never tired, you told me, of the tangible > past you could admire, turn over > and over in your hand?the first > > to touch it since the dead one that had > worked the stone. You lined bookshelves > and end tables with them; obsidian, > > quartz, flint, they measured the hours you'd spent > with your head down, searching for others, > and also the prized hours of my own > > solitude?collected, prized, > saved alongside those artifacts > that had been for so long lost. > > > > CLAUDIA EMERSON > Possessions > > I sent you a list of what I wanted, and you boxed it up carelessly, as though > for the backs > of strangers, or for the fire, the way you might > > have handled a dead woman's possessions?when you could no longer bear to touch > them, the clothes still fragrant, worn, still that reminiscent > > of the body. Or perhaps your lover packed the many boxes herself, released > from secret > into fury, that sick of the scent of me > > in the bed, that wary of her face caught in my mirror?something I said I > didn't want, > where I would not see myself again. > > > > > CLAUDIA EMERSON > Pitching Horseshoes > > Some of your buddies might come around > for a couple of beers and a game, > but most evenings, you pitched horseshoes > > alone. I washed up the dishes > or watered the garden to the thudding > sound of the horseshoe in the pit, > > or the practiced ring of metal > against metal, after the silent > arc?end over end. That last > > summer you played a seamless, unscored > game against yourself, or night > falling, or coming in the house. > > You were good at it. From the porch > I watched you become shadowless, > then featureless, until I knew > > you couldn't see either, and still > the dusk rang out, your aim that easy; > between the iron stakes you had driven > > into the hard earth yourself, you paced > back and forth as if there were a decision > to make, and you were the one to make it. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 16:44:25 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:44:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets References: Message-ID: <018201c66328$e1c42e50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: Baseball and SonnetsCan we bend the rules a little, and give the Pulitzer to Robert Francis? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:02 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets On 4/18/06 1:16 PM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: If sonnet writing were like baseball, you might have a point, Paul. But there's no rule book when it comes to writing sonnets (or any other sort of poetry). Hal, there are all sorts of rules for all sorts of poetry. If you write a ballad stanza, the poem has different rules from blank verse. Forms are defined by the rules that bring them into being in a way similar to how chess is brought into being by the rules of chess. A line of trochaic pentameter is by definition not a line of dactylic hexameter or a line of iambic trimeter. A triolet has different rules from heroic couplets. If a batter demands a fourth strike, the umpire will still say he's out. If a poet writes a fourteen line poem divided into an an octave and a sestet and makes the lines all look about the same length but doesn't use meter and mangles every rule of rhyme to produce a poem in which the rhymes are irregularly spaced, inaudible or only clumsily similar when present at all, and then also mechanically breaks her lines at awkward places to ill effect, I'm going to ignore the Pulitzer judges and the poet's special pleading for a fourth strike and say, "You're outta here!" Now there are poets like Kay Ryan who invent their own successful rules by modulating traditional rules and patterns to invent their own, and there are "free verse" poems of various stripes, some of which have successfully invented shifting patterns of great subtlety and artfulness, but that's a different matter. Even playing catch has a loose set of rules. I don't want to play catch with someone who throws the ball thirty feet over my head and then deliberately misses catching the ball and insists I go chase it down and throw it back to him instead. As a reader, I demand similar rules. If you wanna play catch, just throw the ball a little bit out of my reach now and then or wing one hard and fast to change the pace, but don't throw it all over the damn neighborhood and then tell me that's how you play catch. Robert Francis has some good poems about baseball where he's really talking about poetry-like "The Pitcher" and the following: ? Catch ? ? Two boys uncoached are tossing a poem together, Overhand, underhand, backhand, sleight of hand, everyhand, Teasing with attitudes, latitudes, interludes, altitudes, High, make him fly off the ground for it, low, make him stoop, Make him scoop it up, make him as-almost-as possible miss it, Fast, let him sting from it, now, now fool him slowly, Anything, everything tricky, risky, nonchalant, Anything under the sun to outwit the prosy, Over the tree and the long sweet cadence down, Over his head, make him scramble to pick up the meaning, And now, like a posy, a pretty one plump in his hands. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 18 16:45:14 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:45:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize References: <38b.dd30dd.31764c71@aol.com> Message-ID: <00d101c66328$ff173330$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> A formalist....now that's what I like to hear!!! But isn't the important thing that the prize has gone to someone who has won dozens of other prizes? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LauraHeidy at aol.com Tue Apr 18 16:48:26 2006 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:48:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize Message-ID: <33f.2f68926.3176aa9a@aol.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 3:45:42 PM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: But isn't the important thing that the prize has gone to someone who has won dozens of other prizes? Dontcha have to win lots of little prizes to get to the big one, tho? I have no problem with "dues-paying"....not in life or in poetry. I'm also pretty sure I don't belong here. There's an awful lot of negativity. It's bad for karma or something. Lo _Terminal Chaosity_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/) http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 16:56:55 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:56:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] We contain multitudes In-Reply-To: <009301c66323$555dbe90$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: The Pulitzer announcement is really interesting in terms of illustrating quite vividly how fractured the audience for poetry in this country really is. There probably isn't much use in talking about "audience" in conventional terms anymore--unless you make it plural. For many readers, a poet who's been featured by several books from LSU press, won a passle of previous mainstream awards, and has attracted favorable notice by people like Ted Kooser (Poet Laureate) and Henry Taylor (a previous Pulitzer winner) is hardly an unknown quantity. Maybe a dark horse for such a big award, but solidly in the mainstream and not obviously a lightweight--at least by reputation. Look over at the WomPo list, for instance, and there's quiet rejoicing by some that Emerson has won, and she's clearly a known quantity among many. But move over to the Buffalo Poetics list, and it's a different story. It's as though a Martian has landed on the White House lawn. "Who is Claudia Emerson?" is the only criticial question, and her poetry is assumed (without any examination) to be without worth. Then there's us. Here at NewPo, at least we've looked at some of Emerson's poems, and had something of a discussion of their quality. But even here, no consensus whatsoever, and a range of reactions from "Who is Emerson?" to "Good for her!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - On 4/18/06 3:04 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: > > >> >> I?m sure I?m not alone in feeling honored NOT to be included among these All >> Stars of contemporary poetry. I?d rather run down the halls with those >> children in blue capes. >> >> >> My impression is that just about everyone posting on this to the Poetics >> list would agree with you, Paul. The poem by Emerson that David quoted Was >> presented as a conclusive piece of evidence for their view. My own view of >> it need not be stated since it would surprise no one at New-Poetry. >> >> >> >> --Bob G. > > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 17:03:13 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:03:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson References: <39b.ca9464.3176a35e@aol.com> Message-ID: <01f201c6632b$81b9aa50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Well, I'm teaching an American lit survey course. I just finished Ginsberg, and am on to the confessional poets. I mentioned in class that for all his power and originality, Ginsberg didn't have as much of an impact on American poetry (although perhaps more on American culture) as the Confessionals, whose stuff is still being emulated. Looks like I was write. I wrote a sort of confessional -- at least sort of autobiographical -- poem once, which was probably enough, if not more than enough. I sent it to Don Finkel, to whom I've been sending all my poems for years, my mentor and best critic. He wrote back -- I don't have much to say about this one. It's not the kind of stuff I write, it's not the kind of stuff I read. And...yeah. I liked the first one pretty much, as much as one can like a poem that tells us that she feels uncomfortable when her new lover fucks her under a quilt that his dead wife made. Now I know that she really likes artifacts, doesn't like dead women, and all things considered, would rather be a horseshoe. Come to think of it, maybe those aren't such bad ingredients for a poem. I?d take artifacts over dead women, and over me, I?d rather have a horseshoe pitcher than that dead bitch?s quilt, if only he?d come in ? it?s damn dark out there, but look on the bright side: before he gets back, I can wash the fucking quilt in bleach and lye. ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson Doubt taht this will stop hte grumbling (hey I'm hte one who should be jealous! I published a book last year too!), but ehrea re some other poems from Claudia Emerson: CLAUDIA EMERSON Surface Hunting You always washed artifacts at the kitchen sink, your back to the room, to me, to the mud you'd tracked in from whatever neighbor's field had just been plowed. Spearpoints, birdpoints, awls and leaf- shaped blades surfaced from the turned earth as though from beneath some thicker water you tried to see into. You never tired, you told me, of the tangible past you could admire, turn over and over in your hand?the first to touch it since the dead one that had worked the stone. You lined bookshelves and end tables with them; obsidian, quartz, flint, they measured the hours you'd spent with your head down, searching for others, and also the prized hours of my own solitude?collected, prized, saved alongside those artifacts that had been for so long lost. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CLAUDIA EMERSON Possessions I sent you a list of what I wanted, and you boxed it up carelessly, as though for the backs of strangers, or for the fire, the way you might have handled a dead woman's possessions?when you could no longer bear to touch them, the clothes still fragrant, worn, still that reminiscent of the body. Or perhaps your lover packed the many boxes herself, released from secret into fury, that sick of the scent of me in the bed, that wary of her face caught in my mirror?something I said I didn't want, where I would not see myself again. CLAUDIA EMERSON Pitching Horseshoes Some of your buddies might come around for a couple of beers and a game, but most evenings, you pitched horseshoes alone. I washed up the dishes or watered the garden to the thudding sound of the horseshoe in the pit, or the practiced ring of metal against metal, after the silent arc?end over end. That last summer you played a seamless, unscored game against yourself, or night falling, or coming in the house. You were good at it. From the porch I watched you become shadowless, then featureless, until I knew you couldn't see either, and still the dusk rang out, your aim that easy; between the iron stakes you had driven into the hard earth yourself, you paced back and forth as if there were a decision to make, and you were the one to make it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 17:03:50 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:03:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Message from Kerry O'Keefe References: <00ef01c66325$e8fccfe0$73ab3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <020601c6632b$97f97750$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Second both of Anny's motions. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Message from Kerry O'Keefe Happy for Kerry! Tell her to come around some time as she used to From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:46 PM Kerry O'Keefe asked that I pass the following announcement along to all assembled here: My chapbook was released a couple of months ago by March Street Press. The title is FROM A BURNING BUILDING. The St. Francis poem is the first poem in the book. "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amparker at davidson.edu Tue Apr 18 17:01:35 2006 From: amparker at davidson.edu (Parker, Alan Michael) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:01:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but Message-ID: Hi, folks. I find little in Emerson's language--sincerity, sure, and a passionate reserve I admire, but not much in the writing to rattle the bars of my cage. Some meter, though, as in these lines that (with David) I find pleasing: "and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft." iamb, iamb, iamb, anapest, iamb -- with apologies to the final two feet of the last line, perhaps... Can't say it's a Pulitzer, but wadda I know: I just write here. AMP Alan Michael Parker From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 18 17:10:53 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:10:53 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise References: <30f.354b6c2.31767531@aol.com> <008c01c66326$c66b36a0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <015c01c6632c$93d50580$73ab3452@ANNY> I am also with James and Tad. Big awards should keep a certain level based on many evaluating factors At school you have to take in consideration several dynamics, like discipline, collaboration, the same personality of the student, not only the mere tecnical outcome. Something like this. From: TheOldMole Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:29 PM I think I'm with JforJames here. I also am the kind of guy who votes for the aging star for the AllStar team, over the unproven kid who's having a hot first half of the season. There should be a kind of heft to the pullet surprise. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, almaginnes at aol.com writes: Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 18 17:27:09 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:27:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] We contain multitudes References: Message-ID: <00fe01c6632e$d9a766f0$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> We contain multitudesThe poem you quoted circulated with the announcement of the prize, David, so the people at the Poetics list did have some idea of what kind of poetry she writes. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Graham To: NewPoetry Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] We contain multitudes The Pulitzer announcement is really interesting in terms of illustrating quite vividly how fractured the audience for poetry in this country really is. There probably isn't much use in talking about "audience" in conventional terms anymore--unless you make it plural. For many readers, a poet who's been featured by several books from LSU press, won a passle of previous mainstream awards, and has attracted favorable notice by people like Ted Kooser (Poet Laureate) and Henry Taylor (a previous Pulitzer winner) is hardly an unknown quantity. Maybe a dark horse for such a big award, but solidly in the mainstream and not obviously a lightweight--at least by reputation. Look over at the WomPo list, for instance, and there's quiet rejoicing by some that Emerson has won, and she's clearly a known quantity among many. But move over to the Buffalo Poetics list, and it's a different story. It's as though a Martian has landed on the White House lawn. "Who is Claudia Emerson?" is the only criticial question, and her poetry is assumed (without any examination) to be without worth. Then there's us. Here at NewPo, at least we've looked at some of Emerson's poems, and had something of a discussion of their quality. But even here, no consensus whatsoever, and a range of reactions from "Who is Emerson?" to "Good for her!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 4/18/06 3:04 PM, "Bob Grumman" wrote: I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling honored NOT to be included among these All Stars of contemporary poetry. I'd rather run down the halls with those children in blue capes. My impression is that just about everyone posting on this to the Poetics list would agree with you, Paul. The poem by Emerson that David quoted Was presented as a conclusive piece of evidence for their view. My own view of it need not be stated since it would surprise no one at New-Poetry. --Bob G. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 18 18:30:34 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:30:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson References: <39b.ca9464.3176a35e@aol.com> <01f201c6632b$81b9aa50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <012b01c66337$c42862d0$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Influences are hard to trace, but the Williams/Ginsberg/Bukowski influence is strong, albeit not noticed much in the academies. Aside from that, Emerson doesn't strike me as very confessional. Just personal. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: TheOldMole To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more emerson Well, I'm teaching an American lit survey course. I just finished Ginsberg, and am on to the confessional poets. I mentioned in class that for all his power and originality, Ginsberg didn't have as much of an impact on American poetry (although perhaps more on American culture) as the Confessionals, whose stuff is still being emulated. Looks like I was write. I wrote a sort of confessional -- at least sort of autobiographical -- poem once, which was probably enough, if not more than enough. I sent it to Don Finkel, to whom I've been sending all my poems for years, my mentor and best critic. He wrote back -- I don't have much to say about this one. It's not the kind of stuff I write, it's not the kind of stuff I read. And...yeah. I liked the first one pretty much, as much as one can like a poem that tells us that she feels uncomfortable when her new lover fucks her under a quilt that his dead wife made. Now I know that she really likes artifacts, doesn't like dead women, and all things considered, would rather be a horseshoe. Come to think of it, maybe those aren't such bad ingredients for a poem. I?d take artifacts over dead women, and over me, I?d rather have a horseshoe pitcher than that dead bitch?s quilt, if only he?d come in ? it?s damn dark out there, but look on the bright side: before he gets back, I can wash the fucking quilt in bleach and lye. ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson Doubt taht this will stop hte grumbling (hey I'm hte one who should be jealous! I published a book last year too!), but ehrea re some other poems from Claudia Emerson: CLAUDIA EMERSON Surface Hunting You always washed artifacts at the kitchen sink, your back to the room, to me, to the mud you'd tracked in from whatever neighbor's field had just been plowed. Spearpoints, birdpoints, awls and leaf- shaped blades surfaced from the turned earth as though from beneath some thicker water you tried to see into. You never tired, you told me, of the tangible past you could admire, turn over and over in your hand?the first to touch it since the dead one that had worked the stone. You lined bookshelves and end tables with them; obsidian, quartz, flint, they measured the hours you'd spent with your head down, searching for others, and also the prized hours of my own solitude?collected, prized, saved alongside those artifacts that had been for so long lost. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CLAUDIA EMERSON Possessions I sent you a list of what I wanted, and you boxed it up carelessly, as though for the backs of strangers, or for the fire, the way you might have handled a dead woman's possessions?when you could no longer bear to touch them, the clothes still fragrant, worn, still that reminiscent of the body. Or perhaps your lover packed the many boxes herself, released from secret into fury, that sick of the scent of me in the bed, that wary of her face caught in my mirror?something I said I didn't want, where I would not see myself again. CLAUDIA EMERSON Pitching Horseshoes Some of your buddies might come around for a couple of beers and a game, but most evenings, you pitched horseshoes alone. I washed up the dishes or watered the garden to the thudding sound of the horseshoe in the pit, or the practiced ring of metal against metal, after the silent arc?end over end. That last summer you played a seamless, unscored game against yourself, or night falling, or coming in the house. You were good at it. From the porch I watched you become shadowless, then featureless, until I knew you couldn't see either, and still the dusk rang out, your aim that easy; between the iron stakes you had driven into the hard earth yourself, you paced back and forth as if there were a decision to make, and you were the one to make it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 18 18:39:31 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:39:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson part 2 Message-ID: <2b6.8c13922.3176c4a3@aol.com> Al, thanks for posting more poems...The first ("Stable", below) starts off like Richard Hugo. I liked 'like a loose black warp / of patience," describing the buzzards, but she plays those notes too hard, too heavily. With 'bearing the blank sky' and "like a pall of wind on mourning / wings" Stop, with that, I want to shout...I got it...it's all desolate and lonely and nobody home (that's a Sandburg reference). Then the bit about the bones picked clean just goes way beyond the pale. In the end, you want something unexpected, not more of the expected accouterments of a dilapidated farm building. Tho the hayrake's ribs rising above rampant grasses has that ironic / askance glance at landscape and nature we associate with good haiku. The second ("Second Bearing') is more attractive. The story is handled very well, I thought...blossoming slowly, so to speak. Tho I'm not quite convinced by final 'endless somehow'. >From all the poems posted I can see that she's a poet who can craft an attractive vignette tinged with emotional nuance. I don't know that that makes her poetry special...but it's not beneath consideration and attention. And maybe Kooser had a hand in the picking... which would make sense given their shared attention to rural American settings. I honestly had never heard of her...but I'm sure that won't be the first or last time that will happen. David G says she's published books with LSU...probably a lot a good (dare I say deserving) poets that get lost on University Press poetry lists that do worse by their authors, it seems to me, than the private concerns (which constantly seem to struggle financially) like Graywolf, Copper Canyon, Boa, etc. I'm campaigning on "A Pullet in Every Pot." Finnegan In a message dated 4/18/2006 4:20:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: Stable One rusty horseshoe hangs on a nail above the door, still losing its luck, and a work-collar swings, an empty old noose. The silence waits, wild to be broken by hoofbeat and heavy harness slap, will founder but remain; while, outside, above the stable, eight, nine, now ten buzzards swing low in lazy loops, a loose black warp of patience, bearing the blank sky like a pall of wind on mourning wings. But the bones of this place are long picked clean. Only the hayrake's ribs still rise from the rampant grasses. Second Bearing, 1919 ?for my father I have asked him to tell it?how he heard the curing barn took hours to burn, the logs thick, accustomed to heat?how, even when it was clear all was lost, the barn and the tobacco fields within it, they threw water instead on the nearby peach tree, intent on saving something, sure, though, the heat had killed it, the bark charred black. But in late fall, the tree broke into bloom, perhaps having misunderstood the fire to be some brief, backward winter. Blossoms whitened, opened. Peaches appeared against the season?an answer, an argument. Word carried. People claimed the fruit was sweeter for being out of time. They rode miles to see it. He remembers my grandfather saying, his mouth full, this is a sign, and the one my father was given to eat?the down the same, soft as any other, inside the color of cream, juice clear as water, but wait, wait; he holds his cupped hand up as though for me to see again there is no seed, no pit to come to?that it is infertile, and endless somehow. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 18 18:45:45 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:45:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize References: <33f.2f68926.3176aa9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <014601c66339$d4ef5c20$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I shouldn't have made my comment, having vowed not to be negative--although it wasn't very negative compared to most of my previous negative comments. (And all comments are, in the final analysis, as negative as positive--to say hurrah for a victory of formalism is saying hurrah for a defeat of free verse, for instance). But what I said was merely a re-expression of my (positive) desire that SOME grand prize in poetry go to the representative of a prizeless but deserving school of poetry, and there ARE some around. Poetry needs to reward those keeping traditions viable, but ALSO those exploring alternatives effectively. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: LauraHeidy at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize In a message dated 4/18/2006 3:45:42 PM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: But isn't the important thing that the prize has gone to someone who has won dozens of other prizes? Dontcha have to win lots of little prizes to get to the big one, tho? I have no problem with "dues-paying"....not in life or in poetry. I'm also pretty sure I don't belong here. There's an awful lot of negativity. It's bad for karma or something. Lo Terminal Chaosity http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 19:21:20 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:21:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <362.2e62c8a.3176ce70@aol.com> OK, but the Pulitzer is supposed to be an award for one book published that year, not for a lifetime of many books. There are other awards for that. Whether Claudia deserves the rpzie or not (I'll out myself here and say that she's a friend and someone who I like and respect a lot), the idea of the Pulitzer is to award a single book, as opposed to, say, the Nobel, which is given for a life's work. Yes, I applaud when someone who has had a long career and has been a bit undervalued gets the nod (as has happened in hte last ten years or so to Ted Kooser), but giving the prize to someone who already has a shelf full of them, like Wilbur or Merwin, is fairly pointless. In a message dated 4/18/2006 5:11:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: I am also with James and Tad. Big awards should keep a certain level based on many evaluating factors At school you have to take in consideration several dynamics, like discipline, collaboration, the same personality of the student, not only the mere tecnical outcome. Something like this. From: _TheOldMole_ (mailto:tad at opus40.org) Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:29 PM I think I'm with JforJames here. I also am the kind of guy who votes for the aging star for the AllStar team, over the unproven kid who's having a hot first half of the season. There should be a kind of heft to the pullet surprise. ----- Original Message ----- From: _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) To: _new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu_ (mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu) Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, _almaginnes at aol.com_ (mailto:almaginnes at aol.com) writes: Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 20:06:56 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:06:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Good Karma In-Reply-To: <014601c66339$d4ef5c20$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <33f.2f68926.3176aa9a@aol.com> <014601c66339$d4ef5c20$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <3F0BE2E5-D018-4F2E-A85C-586EAA3D6E2E@ripon.edu> Hey, welcome to NewPo, Lo. Stick around, and add to our supply of positivity, why don't you? On Apr 18, 2006, at 5:45 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > Dontcha have to win lots of little prizes to get to the big one, tho? > > I have no problem with "dues-paying"....not in life or in poetry. > > I'm also pretty sure I don't belong here. There's an awful lot of > negativity. It's bad for karma or something. > > Lo > Terminal Chaosity > http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ > ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 20:13:58 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:13:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise References: <362.2e62c8a.3176ce70@aol.com> Message-ID: <003701c66346$27eecda0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Al - it's a not indefensible position. I tend to react against the "if they've won awards before, it proves they didn't deserve them and shouldn't get any more" philosophy, but a strong book does deserve credit. ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise OK, but the Pulitzer is supposed to be an award for one book published that year, not for a lifetime of many books. There are other awards for that. Whether Claudia deserves the rpzie or not (I'll out myself here and say that she's a friend and someone who I like and respect a lot), the idea of the Pulitzer is to award a single book, as opposed to, say, the Nobel, which is given for a life's work. Yes, I applaud when someone who has had a long career and has been a bit undervalued gets the nod (as has happened in hte last ten years or so to Ted Kooser), but giving the prize to someone who already has a shelf full of them, like Wilbur or Merwin, is fairly pointless. In a message dated 4/18/2006 5:11:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: I am also with James and Tad. Big awards should keep a certain level based on many evaluating factors At school you have to take in consideration several dynamics, like discipline, collaboration, the same personality of the student, not only the mere tecnical outcome. Something like this. From: TheOldMole Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:29 PM I think I'm with JforJames here. I also am the kind of guy who votes for the aging star for the AllStar team, over the unproven kid who's having a hot first half of the season. There should be a kind of heft to the pullet surprise. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, almaginnes at aol.com writes: Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 20:17:38 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:17:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005 Message-ID: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> Hey, kids! Here's a crazy idea, but it just might work. I'm guessing that there are *other* poetry books published in 2005 that were not Pulitzer finalists. In fact, I'm almost sure of it. . .. How about we each post a poem from some such book that caught our eye, for whatever reason? No foolishness like naming "the best," and no argument/critique necessary, just some actual poems. I for one would welcome hearing about poets (like Claudia Emerson) that I'm not already familiar with. Hell, post some of your own if you put out a book in 2005. After all, some rather large percentage of the total readership of contemporary poetry is probably subscribed to this list. . . . I'll start. One of the 2005 volumes I most enjoyed was Brendan Galvin's new-and-selected edition, *Habitat*, from LSU. Here's one: Nimblejacks Remember Hot Spats and the Kaiser, who illustrated the beautiful moving-while-standing-still word nimblejack, a word worthy of a class of sailboats, like sneakbox, or sharpie? I?m talking soupbeards and rent-laggards like Boofer, who checked out the coinbox on every payphone in town. I?m talking skewfooted Dr. Highpockets, who?d share the sandwich in his carrot bag with anyone. When was the last time Pungie yawped at you across the street to say how well that new puddle was doing on the wrong side of the dike? How about Tick, and the Man of Steel, walk-ons from normality?s hinterland, part of the 9 percent who never have an opinion? They were the canaries in our mineshaft, our early warning systems, and never disappeared into the shops all day, but stayed on the sidewalks to hinder the broom of the future simply by being there. Not one ever asked, ?Are you affiliated with any academic institution?? or propped Einstein?s essays strategically in a window of the Land Rover, but remember how they used to line us up in their sights on Main Street, leaning left and right to keep us level? --Brendan Galvin. [originally from Sky and Island Light, 1996] ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 20:32:31 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:32:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Gail Mazur In-Reply-To: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> References: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <2C07CF93-6CF2-4C1F-93DB-DB56506E25FA@ripon.edu> Another poet I'd not read much until her book started getting some prize attention. . . . The Common Iron cannons from the Revolution. Ghost music ? folk songs, rock concerts, Sunday demonstrations. A granite slab for the elm where Washington took command. A new wood plaque, already rotting, for Margaret Fuller Ossoli ? the city fathers' minimal nod to the life of her mind. The black trunks of old maples brushed with snow, their strong lines rephrased by snow's finery. From a concrete gazebo, Abraham Lincoln gazes down at the cobbled plaza where raffish bands plugged in, and stoned crowds gathered; my small son and daughter skipped ahead of me, hand in hand, to the swings, the jungle gym, the roundabout, and at home, pre-season jonquils dazzled in a white crockery jug. Stringed beads ? necklaces, earrings ? for sale by a woman who's sat cross-legged on folded blankets since those days, those days. The season's worst cold brewing this early morning. Two men huddled in damp sleeping bags spread out on newspapers; convulsive dreams of their war. The oaks. The maples. In the near-zero day I take on faith, faith in Nature, that life's machinery groans and strains in the frozen limbs. --Gail Mazur. Zeppo's First Wife: New & Selected Poems. U Chicago, 2005. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 20:35:14 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:35:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Matt Cook In-Reply-To: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> References: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <5127551B-284D-4BF7-AF48-03984A1877C1@ripon.edu> And one from the slam / punk side of things: The Waitresses The waitresses At the restaurant Have to keep reminding The schizophrenic man That if he keeps acting Like a schizophrenic man They'll have to ask him to leave the restaurant. But he keeps forgetting that he's a schizophrenic man, So they have to keep reminding him. -- Matt Cook. Eavesdrop Soup. Manic D Press, 2005. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 20:48:26 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:48:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Charles Simic In-Reply-To: <5127551B-284D-4BF7-AF48-03984A1877C1@ripon.edu> References: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> <5127551B-284D-4BF7-AF48-03984A1877C1@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Also appearing in 2005, this book by a Usual Suspect: surprised he wasn't a Pulitzer finalist, actually: Used Book Store Lovers hold hands in never-opened novels. The page with a recipe for cucumber soup is missing. A dead man writes of his happy childhood on a farm, Of riding in a balloon over Lake Erie. A sudden draft shuts the book in my hand, While a philosopher asks how is it possible To maintain the theologically orthodox doctrine Of eternal punishment of the damned? Let's see. There may be sand among the pages Of a travel guide to Egypt or even a dead flea That once bit the ass of the mysterious Abigail Who scribbled her name teasingly with an eye pencil. --Charles Simic. My Noiseless Entourage. Harcourt, 2005. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Apr 18 20:49:46 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:49:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <2a9.2c942d2.3176e32a@aol.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 7:57:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: but giving the prize to someone who already has a shelf full of them, like Wilbur or Merwin, is fairly pointless. I agree with you on this...but I think in every year there is probably a 'good book', as you put it, by a poet that has managed to produce a considerable body of work & whose work that attracted a fair amount of critical attention over the years, but somehow the major prizes have elluded him/her. Jack Gilbert getting the Nat'l Book Critics Award comes to mind as a recent example. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Apr 18 20:54:42 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:54:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry References: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> <5127551B-284D-4BF7-AF48-03984A1877C1@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <01a801c6634b$d865b900$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> It struck me, reflecting on David's call for poems from new collections that I rarely have any idea of the date of the collections. I stack books I get all over the place, and read them at random, sometimes choosing one five or six-years-old. When I choose a new one, I rarely know that it's new. Obviously, I have to get more organized, but I knew that. Another thought: that some outfit give a yearly prize to some worthwhile poetry collection, regardless of when it was published. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Apr 18 21:06:23 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:06:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry In-Reply-To: <01a801c6634b$d865b900$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <5961BD9F-001A-4350-B519-23AD27B462B2@ripon.edu> <5127551B-284D-4BF7-AF48-03984A1877C1@ripon.edu> <01a801c6634b$d865b900$3fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <52ECA73D-AC8D-4FCB-A306-1C354C66483D@ripon.edu> Well, sure. I'm often catching up on books and poets long after they first appeared. In that spirit, here's a poem from a book that appeared in 2003 in the U.K., but that Graywolf brought out in the U.S. in 2005-- Sliding on Loch Ogil Remember, brother soul, that day spent cleaving nothing from nothing, like a thrown knife? Then there was no arriving and no leaving, just a dream of the disintricated life ? crucified and free, the still man moving, the balancing his work, the wind his wife. --Don Paterson. Landing Light (Faber, 2003/ Graywolf, 2005) On Apr 18, 2006, at 7:54 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > It struck me, reflecting on David's call for poems from new > collections that I rarely have any idea of the date of the > collections. I stack books I get all over the place, and read them > at random, sometimes choosing one five or six-years-old. When I > choose a new one, I rarely know that it's new. Obviously, I have > to get more organized, but I knew that. Another thought: that some > outfit give a yearly prize to some worthwhile poetry collection, > regardless of when it was published. > > --Bob G. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 21:41:31 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:41:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <313.3657729.3176ef4b@aol.com> No one cheered louder than me when Jack Gilbert won the National Book Award, and I wouldn't have bitched had it been a twofer and he got the Pulitzer as well. B.H. Fiarchild is another guy who comes to mind as getting some long overdue props. Honestly, i don't know how these thigns get decided or how good any of this is for our writing. I know that I should get back to work if I ever want to get another poem done. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 21:42:41 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:42:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry Message-ID: <37e.f067e2.3176ef91@aol.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 8:55:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Another thought: that some outfit give a yearly prize to some worthwhile poetry collection, regardless of when it was published. This is a great idea and would be a good way to recognize poets who are often overlooked. Anyone got a few million to get an endowment started? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AlMaginnes at aol.com Tue Apr 18 21:46:31 2006 From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:46:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Charles Simic Message-ID: <27b.8249ae4.3176f077@aol.com> >From George Looney's collection "The Precarious Rhetoric of Angels." One of my favorite poets: The Sleep of Wood in The Houses of Wrens It's not the wrens but the girl in overalls, his daughter, he talks to cutting and sanding wood to build houses wrens will only use if he doesn't paint them. He used to paint them, and they'd stay unvisited till they rotted and fell into pieces she'd pick up to save because it seemed something needed to be saved. Nothing was. But the splinter that festered in her finger from one of the gray shards, the one she didn't tell her father about but pinched and pushed until she gave up and let it rot its way into her blood, that dead wood went dormant. Sleep infected her years later in another state where wrens had so many houses built for them they were transient, their song a reminder everything just keeps going and then is gone. Like that shop thick with the refuse of wood, like the garden with wrens singing Oklahoma into a forgotten state where a man who once drove a truck could landscape his backyard into a paradise hummingbirds and wrens and blue jays dance in. When the heat was the worst, they'd bathe in dry soil because the council wouldn't let him water his garden when it looked like there wouldn't be enough water for people to drink in town. Even the drunks, singing harsh, took their whiskey straight, sacrifice an angel that grapples with us beside many rivers, even forgotten ones that have gone to dust. Can we expect wrens to live in graying wood and sing, or a woman with gray wood budding in her heart and other organs to wake after only eight hours? The sleep of wood is much longer than the sleep of flesh. And wrens, they sleep minutes at a time. Building the houses, the man breathes in dust from the sander and coughs. The same dust clings in his daughter's hair and makes her a woman the most invisible wrens could live in. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Apr 18 21:48:26 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:48:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pullet Surprise Message-ID: <3b4.aed805.3176f0ea@cs.com> I just got a new anthology that has three of my sonnets and another poem in short/octosyllabic couplets translated into Spanish free verse. Since I'm fairly fluent in Spanish, I can tell that the translator did a good job of getting my meaning across, but without the music (if you will) that the sonnet and other forms possess. I hope for truly bilingual readers! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932511210/sr=8-5/qid=1145411208/ref=sr_1_5/1 02-1069487-9123361?%5Fencoding=UTF8 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Apr 18 21:52:01 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:52:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Charles Simic Message-ID: <2fd.3c9a4cb.3176f1c1@cs.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 7:47:52 PM Central Standard Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Also appearing in 2005, this book by a Usual Suspect: surprised he wasn't > a Pulitzer finalist, actually: > > > > > Used Book Store > > Lovers hold hands in never-opened novels. > The page with a recipe for cucumber soup is missing. > A dead man writes of his happy childhood on a farm, > Of riding in a balloon over Lake Erie. > > A sudden draft shuts the book in my hand, > While a philosopher asks how is it possible > To maintain the theologically orthodox doctrine > Of eternal punishment of the damned? > > Let's see. There may be sand among the pages > Of a travel guide to Egypt or even a dead flea > That once bit the ass of the mysterious Abigail > Who scribbled her name teasingly with an eye pencil. > > --Charles Simic. My Noiseless Entourage. Harcourt, 2005. > You know that he did win it some years back for a book of prose poems, starting a mini-controversy from Louis Simpson, who noted that the prize was for a "book of verse" instead of a "book of poetry." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Apr 18 21:57:46 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:57:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry Message-ID: <3c1.6ea298.3176f31a@cs.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 7:54:59 PM Central Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Another thought: that some outfit give a yearly prize to some worthwhile > poetry collection, regardless of when it was published. > > I chair the Poets' Prize committee, which awards a $3000 prize annually. This year, three of four finalists were first books, and the prize went to Catherine Tufariello for Keeping My Name. We also wait over a year before awarding our prize, so the 2006 award will go to a book published in 2004. The money for the prize is contributed by the 22 members of the committee, who nominate the books and vote for the winner. Catherine will be reading on Thursday May 18 at 7:00 p.m. at the Nicholas Roerich Museum in New York. It's on 107th St. just west of Broadway. Maybe even Halvard can make the trip uptown! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 22:10:04 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:10:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Jake Adam York Message-ID: <731bb17a0604181910s20820ea0h859495fd6e86b089@mail.gmail.com> Radiotherapy Jake Adam York Because they lived near the signal tower, voltage purring like a church before the preacher starts or because she's talking in the very middle of the noise, the doctor says to pray, to radiate the Word of God into the boy and recall each fallen cell to the righteous body, how at night, if you hold your radio close you can hear the dead whispering through. She explains how her sisters wired their mom's old Silvertone after she had passed away, braiding her hair in the speaker's leads. She says that if he listens he can hear her sisters arguing over every static's peak, her mother saying Time for bed. When she starts again, in the distance, someone's asking why it won't stop hurting, and the church is working like a round, everyone trying to start something new. But all anyone can say is what they've said before, old stories, old prayers all that's breaking through. from Murder Ballads, Elixer Press, 2005 Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 23:47:56 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:47:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry References: <37e.f067e2.3176ef91@aol.com> Message-ID: <00b701c66364$0b960ba0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Yeah, Poetry. Tell them to hire me at a nice 6-figure salary, and I'll set it up. ----- Original Message ----- From: AlMaginnes at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry In a message dated 4/18/2006 8:55:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Another thought: that some outfit give a yearly prize to some worthwhile poetry collection, regardless of when it was published. This is a great idea and would be a good way to recognize poets who are often overlooked. Anyone got a few million to get an endowment started? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Tue Apr 18 23:49:56 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:49:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Jake Adam York References: <731bb17a0604181910s20820ea0h859495fd6e86b089@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <011301c66364$5317dcb0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Keep these coming. I'm typing from my laptop in bed, or I'd pull a couple. Tomorrow I will. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:10 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Jake Adam York Radiotherapy Jake Adam York Because they lived near the signal tower, voltage purring like a church before the preacher starts or because she's talking in the very middle of the noise, the doctor says to pray, to radiate the Word of God into the boy and recall each fallen cell to the righteous body, how at night, if you hold your radio close you can hear the dead whispering through. She explains how her sisters wired their mom's old Silvertone after she had passed away, braiding her hair in the speaker's leads. She says that if he listens he can hear her sisters arguing over every static's peak, her mother saying Time for bed. When she starts again, in the distance, someone's asking why it won't stop hurting, and the church is working like a round, everyone trying to start something new. But all anyone can say is what they've said before, old stories, old prayers all that's breaking through. from Murder Ballads, Elixer Press, 2005 Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 19 03:05:49 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:05:49 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] the usual Almanac Message-ID: <00ac01c6637f$b0793e10$e2d63152@ANNY> In the summer of 1942, the Nazis began Operation Reinhard-the deportation of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto to the concentration camp in Treblinka. From July to September, over 300,000 Jews were deported, leaving only about 50,000 people in the ghetto. When reports of mass murder leaked back to the ghetto, a group of people, mostly young men, formed a resistance group called the Z.O.B.-which in Polish stood for Jewish Fighting Organization. ... On the forty-fifth anniversary of the uprising, a survivor named Irena Klepfisz said, "What we grieve for is not the loss of a grand vision, but rather the loss of common things, events and gestures. ... Ordinariness is the most precious thing we struggle for, what the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto fought for. Not noble causes or abstract theories. But the right to go on living with a sense of purpose and a sense of self-worth-an ordinary life." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 19 09:37:45 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:37:45 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise References: <362.2e62c8a.3176ce70@aol.com> Message-ID: <006b01c663b6$714c2090$1cd93052@ANNY> Yes, we assess students year by year, as a matter of fact four times a year, for their current work (the school system is different here). But this is not the point. The point was highlighted by David Graham in another mail, ok, there are the main guidelines, talking of school: proficiency, diligence, social psychological attitudes, respect, responsibility... factors, as I said before, that are most important, all of them; but then there are the interpretations of the teachers, how many times did we have to argue for one or the other student who _according to some was good _according to others was bad. And here the world goes round. From: AlMaginnes at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:21 AM OK, but the Pulitzer is supposed to be an award for one book published that year, not for a lifetime of many books. There are other awards for that. Whether Claudia deserves the rpzie or not (I'll out myself here and say that she's a friend and someone who I like and respect a lot), the idea of the Pulitzer is to award a single book, as opposed to, say, the Nobel, which is given for a life's work. Yes, I applaud when someone who has had a long career and has been a bit undervalued gets the nod (as has happened in hte last ten years or so to Ted Kooser), but giving the prize to someone who already has a shelf full of them, like Wilbur or Merwin, is fairly pointless. In a message dated 4/18/2006 5:11:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: I am also with James and Tad. Big awards should keep a certain level based on many evaluating factors At school you have to take in consideration several dynamics, like discipline, collaboration, the same personality of the student, not only the mere tecnical outcome. Something like this. From: TheOldMole Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:29 PM I think I'm with JforJames here. I also am the kind of guy who votes for the aging star for the AllStar team, over the unproven kid who's having a hot first half of the season. There should be a kind of heft to the pullet surprise. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pullet Surprise In a message dated 4/18/2006 12:23:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, almaginnes at aol.com writes: Good to see the prize go to someone for a book and not as a lifetime acheivement award or as apology for missing the poet's last book. Claudia's written a good book and it deserves all the accolades it gets. I somewhat disagree, Al. Certainly it's nice to see a new name associated with major prize...but her selection strikes me as odd. Is it a good or great book? I'm not asking that as a challenge and I know it's only opinion...but is there something special about Claudia Emerson's book that should warrant a Pulitzer Prize? Flawed as the prize granting process (and the star system in general) may be, the Pulitzer is one prize that definitely has some recognition and cache among the reading public and publishing world. And it will likely be the first thing said about Claudia Emerson in her obit unless she takes down a Nobel or finds a cure to common cold between now and the end of her run on this earth. Anecdotal as this may be, we've probably had thousands of poets names appear in various posts on this list over the years, yet this might be first time Claudia Emerson was mentioned. That's one way to come into a room with a real fanfare. Or is it a fanfare ending in diminuendo. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 03:42:23 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:42:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets In-Reply-To: <018201c66328$e1c42e50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 4/18/06 3:44 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > Can we bend the rules a little, and give the Pulitzer to Robert Francis? Sure, I don?t mind bending rules now and then, especially for the under-appreciated Robert Francis. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 03:44:43 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:44:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize In-Reply-To: <33f.2f68926.3176aa9a@aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/18/06 3:48 PM, "LauraHeidy at aol.com" wrote: > I'm also pretty sure I don't belong here. There's an awful lot of negativity. > It's bad for karma or something. You?d better leave the poetry world altogether, then, since the poetry world has always been full of rivalries and competition between different schools and factions. As a friend of mine has written, the smaller the pie, the sharper the knives. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 03:46:25 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:46:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/18/06 4:01 PM, "Parker, Alan Michael" wrote: > Hi, folks. > > I find little in Emerson's language--sincerity, sure, and a passionate reserve > I admire, but not much in the writing to rattle the bars of my cage. Some > meter, though, as in these lines that (with David) I find pleasing: > > "and thinning, raveled pattern, as though beneath > her shadow, moving with us, that dark, that soft." > > iamb, iamb, iamb, anapest, iamb -- with apologies to the final two feet of the > last line, perhaps... > > Can't say it's a Pulitzer, but wadda I know: I just write here. > > AMP > > Alan Michael Parker > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I think your analysis is right. There is the corpse of meter in a few lines, but look at those opening lines, for instance, and you'll see a mess. From LauraHeidy at aol.com Wed Apr 19 10:49:08 2006 From: LauraHeidy at aol.com (LauraHeidy at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:49:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize Message-ID: <3a8.e307c5.3177a7e4@aol.com> In a message dated 4/19/2006 9:47:14 AM Central Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: You?d better leave the poetry world altogether I'm pretty sure you're not the first person to tell me that....but thank you for the advice. :) Lo _Terminal Chaosity_ (http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/) http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 03:47:42 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:47:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson In-Reply-To: <01f201c6632b$81b9aa50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 4/18/06 4:03 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > > Well, I'm teaching an American lit survey course. I just finished Ginsberg, > and am on to the confessional poets. I mentioned in class that for all his > power and originality, Ginsberg didn't have as much of an impact on American > poetry (although perhaps more on American culture) as the Confessionals, whose > stuff is still being emulated. Looks like I was write. > > I wrote a sort of confessional -- at least sort of autobiographical -- poem > once, which was probably enough, if not more than enough. I sent it to Don > Finkel, to whom I've been sending all my poems for years, my mentor and best > critic. He wrote back -- I don't have much to say about this one. It's not the > kind of stuff I write, it's not the kind of stuff I read. > > And...yeah. I liked the first one pretty much, as much as one can like a poem > that tells us that she feels uncomfortable when her new lover fucks her under > a quilt that his dead wife made. Now I know that she really likes artifacts, > doesn't like dead women, and all things considered, would rather be a > horseshoe. > > Come to think of it, maybe those aren't such bad ingredients for a poem. > > I?d take artifacts over > > dead women, and over > > me, I?d rather have a > > horseshoe pitcher > > than that dead bitch?s > > quilt, if only he?d come in ? > > it?s damn dark out > > there, but look on the > > bright side: before he gets back, > > I can wash the fucking quilt > > in bleach and lye. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: AlMaginnes at aol.com >> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:17 PM >> Subject: [New-Poetry] more emerson >> >> Doubt taht this will stop hte grumbling (hey I'm hte one who should be >> jealous! I published a book last year too!), but ehrea re some other poems >> from Claudia Emerson: >> >> >> CLAUDIA EMERSON >> Surface Hunting >> >> You always washed artifacts >> at the kitchen sink, your back >> to the room, to me, to the mud >> >> you'd tracked in from whatever >> neighbor's field had just been plowed. >> Spearpoints, birdpoints, awls and leaf- >> >> shaped blades surfaced from the turned earth >> as though from beneath some thicker >> water you tried to see into. >> >> You never tired, you told me, of the tangible >> past you could admire, turn over >> and over in your hand?the first >> >> to touch it since the dead one that had >> worked the stone. You lined bookshelves >> and end tables with them; obsidian, >> >> quartz, flint, they measured the hours you'd spent >> with your head down, searching for others, >> and also the prized hours of my own >> >> solitude?collected, prized, >> saved alongside those artifacts >> that had been for so long lost. >> >> >> >> CLAUDIA EMERSON >> Possessions >> >> I sent you a list of what I wanted, and you boxed it up carelessly, as though >> for the backs >> of strangers, or for the fire, the way you might >> >> have handled a dead woman's possessions?when you could no longer bear to >> touch >> them, the clothes still fragrant, worn, still that reminiscent >> >> of the body. Or perhaps your lover packed the many boxes herself, released >> from secret >> into fury, that sick of the scent of me >> >> in the bed, that wary of her face caught in my mirror?something I said I >> didn't want, >> where I would not see myself again. >> >> >> >> >> CLAUDIA EMERSON >> Pitching Horseshoes >> >> Some of your buddies might come around >> for a couple of beers and a game, >> but most evenings, you pitched horseshoes >> >> alone. I washed up the dishes >> or watered the garden to the thudding >> sound of the horseshoe in the pit, >> >> or the practiced ring of metal >> against metal, after the silent >> arc?end over end. That last >> >> summer you played a seamless, unscored >> game against yourself, or night >> falling, or coming in the house. >> >> You were good at it. From the porch >> I watched you become shadowless, >> then featureless, until I knew >> >> you couldn't see either, and still >> the dusk rang out, your aim that easy; >> between the iron stakes you had driven >> >> into the hard earth yourself, you paced >> back and forth as if there were a decision >> to make, and you were the one to make it. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > A great parody. Thanks for the chuckle. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 03:55:44 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:55:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Pullet Surprise In-Reply-To: <3b4.aed805.3176f0ea@cs.com> Message-ID: On 4/18/06 8:48 PM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" wrote: > I just got a new anthology that has three of my sonnets and another poem in > short/octosyllabic couplets translated into Spanish free verse. Since I'm > fairly fluent in Spanish, I can tell that the translator did a good job of > getting my meaning across, but without the music (if you will) that the sonnet > and other forms possess. I hope for truly bilingual readers! > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932511210/sr=8-5/qid=1145411208/ref=sr_1_5/1 > 02-1069487-9123361?%5Fencoding=UTF8 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Hey, it?s only fair that your formal poems were translated into free verse in Spanish. They?re taking their revenge on us for translating so many of their formal poems into free verse in English. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 03:58:49 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 02:58:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize In-Reply-To: <3a8.e307c5.3177a7e4@aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/06 9:49 AM, "LauraHeidy at aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 4/19/2006 9:47:14 AM Central Daylight Time, > paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: >> You?d better leave the poetry world altogether > I'm pretty sure you're not the first person to tell me that....but thank you > for the advice. :) > > Lo > Terminal Chaosity > http://lauraheidy.blogspot.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > No, Lo, don?t take my words literally. Stay in the poetry world and on this list. I was just warning you to toughen your skin because the poetry wars can get ugly sometimes. Stay and start a truce. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 19 11:02:27 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:02:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14FE7C00-CE70-4659-9B30-2EED71F70911@earthlink.net> Nice trope, Paul, but it's meter that's the corpse--or, let's say, the rigor mortis of language rhythms. Hal "Calvin Coolidge didn't say much and when he did he didn't say much." --Will Rogers Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 19, 2006, at 3:46 AM, Paul Lake wrote: There is the corpse of meter in a few lines, but look at those opening lines, for instance, and you'll see a mess. From cervantes.james at gmail.com Wed Apr 19 11:19:33 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:19:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Baseball and Sonnets In-Reply-To: References: <018201c66328$e1c42e50$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <648208b60604190819m5c5298e1x274e8c02b0af1cda@mail.gmail.com> On 4/19/06, Paul Lake wrote: > On 4/18/06 3:44 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > > > Can we bend the rules a little, and give the Pulitzer to Robert Francis? > > Sure, I don1t mind bending rules now and then, especially for the > under-appreciated Robert Francis. > > Let's make that 3 votes for Francis. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 19 11:26:08 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:26:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In praise of Francis In-Reply-To: <648208b60604190819m5c5298e1x274e8c02b0af1cda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/06 10:19 AM, "James Cervantes" wrote: >> Sure, I don1t mind bending rules now and then, especially for the >> under-appreciated Robert Francis. >> > Let's make that 3 votes for Francis. > > -- Jim ========================================= Hogwash The tongue that mothered such a metaphor Only the purest purist could despair of. Nobody ever called swill sweet but isn't Hogwash a daisy in a field of daisies? What beside sports and flowers could you find To praise better than the American language? Bruised by American foreign policy What shall I soothe me, what defend me with But a handful of clean unmistakable words-- Daisies, daisies, in a field of daisies? --Robert Francis ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 19 11:39:14 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:39:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize Message-ID: <20060419153914.DFE332E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 19 11:47:46 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:47:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but Message-ID: <20060419154746.A91A313CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 19 11:56:36 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:56:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz In-Reply-To: <20060419153914.DFE332E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: The only time I ever spoke with Anthony Hecht was on the phone--I was asking him for a book blurb, which he very graciously agreed to write. Flushed with the fact that I was actually speaking with Anthony Hecht, I said something fairly gee-whiz about how poetry may well make nothing happen, but it had certainly put me in touch with some very interesting people. Hecht said, without missing a beat, "yes, but so many of them are perfectly dreadful." I realized that he'd probably seen a lot more sharpened knives than I ever had. On 4/19/06 10:39 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: > Yeah, but you can actually avoid them. Generally at the cost of building a > poetic reputation among the factions who will like you. > > > > On Wed Apr 19 3:44 , Paul Lake sent: > >> Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Richard Wilbur Wins 2006 Lilly Prize On 4/18/06 3:48 >> PM, "LauraHeidy at aol.com" wrote: >> >>> I'm also pretty sure I don't belong here. There's an awful lot of >>> negativity. It's bad for karma or something. >> >> You?d better leave the poetry world altogether, then, since the poetry world >> has always been full of rivalries and competition between different schools >> and factions. As a friend of mine has written, the smaller the pie, the >> sharper the knives. >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 04:54:41 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:54:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: <14FE7C00-CE70-4659-9B30-2EED71F70911@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 4/19/06 10:02 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Nice trope, Paul, but it's meter that's the > corpse--or, let's say, the rigor mortis > of language rhythms. We obviously disagree, Hal. One could easily say that meter is the living pulse of the poem. When the heartbeat stops in a person, the body becomes a postmodern experiment. Most of us like to keep our pulses in the traditional patterns . . .called life. To use another trope. From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 04:55:47 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:55:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] In praise of Francis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/19/06 10:26 AM, "David Graham" wrote: > On 4/19/06 10:19 AM, "James Cervantes" wrote: > >>> Sure, I don1t mind bending rules now and then, especially for the >>> under-appreciated Robert Francis. >>> >> Let's make that 3 votes for Francis. >> >> -- Jim > ========================================= > > Hogwash > > The tongue that mothered such a metaphor > Only the purest purist could despair of. > > Nobody ever called swill sweet but isn't > Hogwash a daisy in a field of daisies? > > What beside sports and flowers could you find > To praise better than the American language? > > Bruised by American foreign policy > What shall I soothe me, what defend me with > > But a handful of clean unmistakable words-- > Daisies, daisies, in a field of daisies? > > > --Robert Francis > > > > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Another gem. Thanks. From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 04:58:38 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:58:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: <20060419154746.A91A313CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/06 10:47 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: > > It can be. That's why I tell my beginning students not to use rhyme or meter > (not that they listen to me). Not because they're not important -- I believe > every poet should master them, whether s/he uses them or not -- but because > first I want them to listen to other sounds and rhythms of words. I do the same thing in my introduction to creative writing class. I don?t let them use meter and rhyme. They get that in my poetry workshop. In the intro class, I focus on other virtues of good writing like diction, imagery, figurative language. When beginners try to write with meter and rhyme, they usually fall into clich? and various other vices. Pound said that poems should be at least as well written as good prose. I focus on the those virtues before I lead them up the slope of Mt. Parnassus. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 19 12:03:02 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:03:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: <20060419154746.A91A313CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: I generally start with the basics of sound, too, before touching on meter. My experience has been that many students need to learn about fundamentals of rhythm and other sonic devices before they can really hear meter. J. F. Nims's original West Wind had one of the best introductions to the basics of sound that I have ever seen. I've not looked at more recent editions lately to see if David Mason has kept up that emphasis, but I hope so. Donald Hall's (out of print, I think) To Read a Poem also had a great intro to sound. On 4/19/06 10:47 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: > > It can be. That's why I tell my beginning students not to use rhyme or meter > (not that they listen to me). Not because they're not important -- I believe > every poet should master them, whether s/he uses them or not -- but because > first I want them to listen to other sounds and rhythms of words. > ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 19 12:10:05 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:10:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Glad we can disagree so agreeably, Paul. Hal "What does a poet need an unlisted number for?" --George Costanza Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 19, 2006, at 4:54 AM, Paul Lake wrote: > On 4/19/06 10:02 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > >> Nice trope, Paul, but it's meter that's the >> corpse--or, let's say, the rigor mortis >> of language rhythms. > We obviously disagree, Hal. One could easily say that meter is the > living > pulse of the poem. When the heartbeat stops in a person, the body > becomes a > postmodern experiment. Most of us like to keep our pulses in the > traditional > patterns . . .called life. To use another trope. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 19 12:10:10 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:10:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz Message-ID: <20060419161010.AA71A2EC003@smapp01.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Wed Apr 19 12:16:28 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:16:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry Message-ID: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 19 12:25:13 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:25:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> References: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <27E7C032-B433-4D45-B42E-C97576E74C79@earthlink.net> The Iliad Hal "Art is controversial." --Madonna Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 19, 2006, at 12:16 PM, wrote: > > What's a good poem about superheroes? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Wed Apr 19 13:04:56 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:04:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but References: Message-ID: <007d01c663d3$62e19cc0$6600a8c0@Helen> Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist butMe too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). When I get to forms I use ones like haiku that don't rhyme. Rhythm - yes; meter no. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views opus40-01 at opus40.org, Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:58 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but On 4/19/06 10:47 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: It can be. That's why I tell my beginning students not to use rhyme or meter (not that they listen to me). Not because they're not important -- I believe every poet should master them, whether s/he uses them or not -- but because first I want them to listen to other sounds and rhythms of words. I do the same thing in my introduction to creative writing class. I don't let them use meter and rhyme. They get that in my poetry workshop. In the intro class, I focus on other virtues of good writing like diction, imagery, figurative language. When beginners try to write with meter and rhyme, they usually fall into clich? and various other vices. Pound said that poems should be at least as well written as good prose. I focus on the those virtues before I lead them up the slope of Mt. Parnassus. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 06:45:21 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:45:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/06 11:16 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: > > What's a good poem about superheroes? > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > A funny poem called ?Maybe Dats Your Pwoblem Too? by Jim Hall, which can be found in Gwynn?s Penguin Pocket Poetry Anthology?it?s about Spiderman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From almaginnes at aol.com Wed Apr 19 14:15:45 2006 From: almaginnes at aol.com (almaginnes at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:15:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8C831F4694F4DF8-1D50-66C1@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> Jack Butler had a poem about Superman, a long blank verse monologue in the voice of Superman in his book HAWK GUMBO. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views opus40-01 at opus40.org, Sent: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:45:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry On 4/19/06 11:16 AM, "opus40-01 at opus40.org" wrote: What's a good poem about superheroes? _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry A funny poem called ?Maybe Dats Your Pwoblem Too? by Jim Hall, which can be found in Gwynn?s Penguin Pocket Poetry Anthology?it?s about Spiderman. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 19 14:46:24 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:46:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> References: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <91A176CB-7106-461F-9007-5E9C14E85DE0@earthlink.net> Of course, Leroi Jones (aka Baraka) wrote at least one about the Green Hornet. Hal "Leisure is necessary to any form of civilization higher than that of ants, apes, Kipling and his cousin Stan Baldwin." --Ezra Pound Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 19, 2006, at 12:16 PM, wrote: > > What's a good poem about superheroes? > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 07:59:31 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:59:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: <8C831F4694F4DF8-1D50-66C1@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/06 1:15 PM, "almaginnes at aol.com" wrote: > Jack Butler had a poem about Superman, a long blank verse monologue in the > voice of Superman in his book HAWK GUMBO. You?re right. I?d remembered the poem but not the book it was in. Jack?s a friend, and I?ll be seeing him Saturday night in Little Rock. I just published a poem by Jack in First Things that alludes to the Superman myth: I WAS, ONCE MORE, SUPERMAN in my dreams last night, torching a section of steel plate loose with X-ray vision, swigging like orange juice a gallon of explosive oil. Such themes, a half century past childhood! --So fast I blurred invisible, so nimble I pirouetted with atoms, so powerful my passage shredded the air like thunder when I stopped or stirred. And yes, I flew. Lifted my arms and flew. Swooped and zoomed and shrank the world to a map. Flying?s the greatest happiness of sleep. I woke to find myself still me, and you still you of course, still angry from our fight, and all this Earth a vale of kryptonite. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From queenmouse at gmail.com Wed Apr 19 16:08:45 2006 From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:08:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz In-Reply-To: References: <20060419153914.DFE332E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/06, David Graham wrote: > > > Hecht said, without missing a beat, "yes, but so many of them are > perfectly dreadful." > Its so true, but you know-- its true no matter where you go. Advertising, Academia, the Movie biz, Publishing... youch. There are more than enough perfectly dreadful people to go aroundif one is looking for them. Maybe we notice the barracudas more in poetry because they are swimming in a very small pond and thus bump into each other more often, taking all those little bites? When I was in my twenties I think I naively expected poets to be more pure-hearted and idealistic than other people out there in the big bad world, and was bitterly disappointed to discover that they can be just as petty and awful as anyone else-- and that sometimes the worst offenders are the ones who make the biggest noise about how utterly dreadful everybody else is. Now I believe that my initial shock was more due to the contast between my expectation and what I found-- the poets I met, in point of fact, were no more dreadful or petty than anyone else out there. Rivalries and factions are all par for the course in the world. Just be yourself and be good to others, and you should come out without too many scratches. You can walk away from it all. Suzanne Burns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Apr 19 09:44:52 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:44:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4/19/06 3:08 PM, "Suzanne Burns" wrote: > > On 4/19/06, David Graham wrote: >> >> Hecht said, without missing a beat, "yes, but so many of them are perfectly >> dreadful." > > Its so true, but you know-- its true no matter where you go. Advertising, > Academia, the Movie biz, Publishing... youch. There are more than enough > perfectly dreadful people to go aroundif one is looking for them. Maybe we > notice the barracudas more in poetry because they are swimming in a very small > pond and thus bump into each other more often, taking all those little bites? > > When I was in my twenties I think I naively expected poets to be more > pure-hearted and idealistic than other people out there in the big bad world, > and was bitterly disappointed to discover that they can be just as petty and > awful as anyone else-- and that sometimes the worst offenders are the ones who > make the biggest noise about how utterly dreadful everybody else is. > > Now I believe that my initial shock was more due to the contast between my > expectation and what I found-- the poets I met, in point of fact, were no > more dreadful or petty than anyone else out there. > > Rivalries and factions are all par for the course in the world. Just be > yourself and be good to others, and you should come out without too many > scratches. You can walk away from it all. > > > Suzanne Burns > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I had great fun with the idea of poets competing against and preying up each other in my novel Among the Immortals. When people used to ask what my novel was about, I?d sometimes reply, ?Poets and vampires. But that?s redundant.? If you like dark but funny satire, have a look. Copies can still be found at Amazon. This isn?t a plug, since I won?t make anything off used books. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Wed Apr 19 17:38:18 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:38:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire Subdivision References: Message-ID: <00a801c663f9$9339c0c0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: [New-Poetry] Po BizPaul - I have a section on poets and vampires,too, in "Situations." Since it's short and since I've been a relatively good boy and not self-promoted here in a while, I'll post it here. Six hours later, Blanche and Rose, nonplussed, Are at a table in the Garden District. To be specific, Anne Rice has them trussed To chairs. "I never thought that she'd be this strict," Rose whispers. Blanche explains, "It's the result Of a wide range of interests. Some of them Center around her love for the occult, The rest are all tied up with S&M." "Let's start the s?ance," Blanche says. "Wait-we're not All gathered yet," says Rice. "And on that note, I'd like to introduce my friend Lestat- He's taken quite a liking to your throat." The spectral figure clears his throat: "Forgive My late arrival-I've been in the lab since Just after tea-these days, it's where I live." Rose thinks that in a field, he'd be the absence Of field; what's more, she notices that when He walks, he parts the air, and that it moves To fill the spaces where his body's been. "M. Lestat," Rose interjects, "this proves You're something not quite human. Something morbid, Macabre, or even worse-perhaps a poet." "A poet? Me? Fat chance! Heaven forbid!" "But you looked so much like.never mind. Although it Still puzzles me. Why do you move?" "To keep Things whole. Nonetheless, I'm no versifier. I'm the undead. I live by night. I sleep By day." "Right-you're a poet." "I'm a vampire, Dammit! And I can prove it!" Lestat whirls. With feral tread and eyes fixed like a predator, Lestat advances slowly toward the girls, Stops before Blanche's chair, lowers his head at her. It strikes Rose that unless she finds a recourse To Anne Rice and Lestat, there's every chance her Future is as dessert to Blanche's main course. Her only hope is Bob, the necromancer. Send me deliverance from this pursuer! A figure enters-not Bob-crimson cloaked, With lacquered hair and tapered manicure; He gestures at Lestat, who whispers, choked With terror, "You?" "Yes, me. Bob couldn't make it. He's occupied with knowledge to impart To Carlene's friends. I brought this stake-it should make the perfect lagniappe for your heart." Lestat departs in haste. Anne Rice steps forward, Faces the stranger with a heaving bosom. She says, "Monsieur, I am the one you've ordered, It's I alone can help you bridge the chasm Between the damned and the sublime. I know Secrets of knots and chains, how to insert Body parts where none would guess they'd go, Intricate pas de deux of bliss and hurt." "It's tempting," says the stranger. "But temptation Was my gift to mankind. I tend to doubt That even someone of your reputation Could dream up deviance I've not tried out." Rose speaks: "If I can show you a delight You've never tasted, Monsieur, in return Will you grant me one favor?" "Yes, I might- You understand that if you fail, you'll burn Eternally?" Rose says, "I'll take that gamble. Not like that Rice tart, with her whips and fetters; I'm thinking more of Mrs. Patrick Campbell And G. B. Shaw." The Devil snickers, "Letters? Perhaps you planned on boring me to death?" A new approach. one without much attraction." Rose thinks of what blue-veined Elizabeth Taught her about the art of satisfaction. Chaste stimulation leaves the Devil sated. Now he's in Rose's thrall. Bereft, Anne Rice's Bosom heaves its last, and lies deflated, As flaccid as her prose, or as her vices. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Po Biz On 4/19/06 3:08 PM, "Suzanne Burns" wrote: On 4/19/06, David Graham wrote: Hecht said, without missing a beat, "yes, but so many of them are perfectly dreadful." Its so true, but you know-- its true no matter where you go. Advertising, Academia, the Movie biz, Publishing... youch. There are more than enough perfectly dreadful people to go aroundif one is looking for them. Maybe we notice the barracudas more in poetry because they are swimming in a very small pond and thus bump into each other more often, taking all those little bites? When I was in my twenties I think I naively expected poets to be more pure-hearted and idealistic than other people out there in the big bad world, and was bitterly disappointed to discover that they can be just as petty and awful as anyone else-- and that sometimes the worst offenders are the ones who make the biggest noise about how utterly dreadful everybody else is. Now I believe that my initial shock was more due to the contast between my expectation and what I found-- the poets I met, in point of fact, were no more dreadful or petty than anyone else out there. Rivalries and factions are all par for the course in the world. Just be yourself and be good to others, and you should come out without too many scratches. You can walk away from it all. Suzanne Burns ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry I had great fun with the idea of poets competing against and preying up each other in my novel Among the Immortals. When people used to ask what my novel was about, I'd sometimes reply, "Poets and vampires. But that's redundant." If you like dark but funny satire, have a look. Copies can still be found at Amazon. This isn't a plug, since I won't make anything off used books. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 19 18:16:36 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:16:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire Subdivision References: <00a801c663f9$9339c0c0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <013001c663fe$ecdb5d00$768e3052@ANNY> Re: [New-Poetry] Po BizThanks god you were a good boy. But do you write them during the night at a candlelight storm full blown & so and such From: TheOldMole Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:38 PM Paul - I have a section on poets and vampires,too, in "Situations." Since it's short and since I've been a relatively good boy and not self-promoted here in a while, I'll post it here. Six hours later, Blanche and Rose, nonplussed, Are at a table in the Garden District. To be specific, Anne Rice has them trussed To chairs. "I never thought that she'd be this strict," Rose whispers. Blanche explains, "It's the result Of a wide range of interests. Some of them Center around her love for the occult, The rest are all tied up with S&M." "Let's start the s?ance," Blanche says. "Wait-we're not All gathered yet," says Rice. "And on that note, I'd like to introduce my friend Lestat- He's taken quite a liking to your throat." The spectral figure clears his throat: "Forgive My late arrival-I've been in the lab since Just after tea-these days, it's where I live." Rose thinks that in a field, he'd be the absence Of field; what's more, she notices that when He walks, he parts the air, and that it moves To fill the spaces where his body's been. "M. Lestat," Rose interjects, "this proves You're something not quite human. Something morbid, Macabre, or even worse-perhaps a poet." "A poet? Me? Fat chance! Heaven forbid!" "But you looked so much like.never mind. Although it Still puzzles me. Why do you move?" "To keep Things whole. Nonetheless, I'm no versifier. I'm the undead. I live by night. I sleep By day." "Right-you're a poet." "I'm a vampire, Dammit! And I can prove it!" Lestat whirls. With feral tread and eyes fixed like a predator, Lestat advances slowly toward the girls, Stops before Blanche's chair, lowers his head at her. It strikes Rose that unless she finds a recourse To Anne Rice and Lestat, there's every chance her Future is as dessert to Blanche's main course. Her only hope is Bob, the necromancer. Send me deliverance from this pursuer! A figure enters-not Bob-crimson cloaked, With lacquered hair and tapered manicure; He gestures at Lestat, who whispers, choked With terror, "You?" "Yes, me. Bob couldn't make it. He's occupied with knowledge to impart To Carlene's friends. I brought this stake-it should make the perfect lagniappe for your heart." Lestat departs in haste. Anne Rice steps forward, Faces the stranger with a heaving bosom. She says, "Monsieur, I am the one you've ordered, It's I alone can help you bridge the chasm Between the damned and the sublime. I know Secrets of knots and chains, how to insert Body parts where none would guess they'd go, Intricate pas de deux of bliss and hurt." "It's tempting," says the stranger. "But temptation Was my gift to mankind. I tend to doubt That even someone of your reputation Could dream up deviance I've not tried out." Rose speaks: "If I can show you a delight You've never tasted, Monsieur, in return Will you grant me one favor?" "Yes, I might- You understand that if you fail, you'll burn Eternally?" Rose says, "I'll take that gamble. Not like that Rice tart, with her whips and fetters; I'm thinking more of Mrs. Patrick Campbell And G. B. Shaw." The Devil snickers, "Letters? Perhaps you planned on boring me to death?" A new approach. one without much attraction." Rose thinks of what blue-veined Elizabeth Taught her about the art of satisfaction. Chaste stimulation leaves the Devil sated. Now he's in Rose's thrall. Bereft, Anne Rice's Bosom heaves its last, and lies deflated, As flaccid as her prose, or as her vices. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 19 21:36:55 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:36:55 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Specimens from New Books of Poetry Message-ID: <3ab.cb869f.31783fb7@aol.com> In a message dated 4/18/2006 9:58:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: I chair the Poets' Prize committee, which awards a $3000 prize annually. This year, three of four finalists were first books, and the prize went to Catherine Tufariello for Keeping My Name. We also wait over a year before awarding our prize, so the 2006 award will go to a book published in 2004. The money for the prize is contributed by the 22 members of the committee, who nominate the books and vote for the winner. Catherine will be reading on Thursday May 18 at 7:00 p.m. at the Nicholas Roerich Museum in New York. It's on 107th St. just west of Broadway. Maybe even Halvard can make the trip uptown! Sam, That's an interesting and novel way to award a prize. I like the idea that the judges put up the money...a vested interest there for sure. If it's not a secret, how are nominations made or taken, and how are deliberations handled, and how is the final selection made? Do tiebreaks go by straight maority wins? And how was the forum of 22 selected and is there something magic about that number? Does everyone contribute equal shares.?..30 would have made it a C-note per. Of course, there must be ancillary costs to process of awarding the prize. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 19 22:12:09 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:12:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry Message-ID: <384.113c4bc.317847f9@aol.com> It's about Egyptian deities and Elvis, so that's pretty close: Memphis by David St. John In a message dated 4/19/2006 1:15:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, opus40-01 at opus40.org writes: What's a good poem about superheroes? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 19 22:14:29 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:14:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FF5E60D-33C1-4F39-A672-BAED226405C6@ripon.edu> note, passed to superman sweet jesus, superman, if i had seen you dressed in your blue suit i would have known you. maybe that choirboy clark can stand around listening to stories but not you, not with metropolis to save and every crook in town filthy with kryptonite. lord, man of steel, i understand the cape, the leggings, the whole ball of wax. you can trust me, there is no planet stranger than the one i'm from. --Lucille Clifton ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Wed Apr 19 22:15:49 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:15:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Information on the Poets' Prize Message-ID: <1bb.2f2e076.317848d5@cs.com> This was in answer to a query from the New Poetry list-serve, run by James Finnegan. In a message dated 4/19/2006 7:37:22 PM Central Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > Sam, > That's an interesting and novel way to award a prize. I like > the idea that the judges put up the money...a vested interest there > for sure. If it's not a secret, how are nominations made or > taken, and how are deliberations handled, and how is > the final selection made? Do tiebreaks go by straight majority wins? And > how was the forum of 22 selected and is there > something magic about that number? Does everyone > contribute equal shares.?..30 would have made it a C-note > per. Of course, there must be ancillary costs to process > of awarding the prize. > Finnegan > We allow each member to nominate two books. Obviously it's a bit of a logistical problem (and a burden on some smaller presses) to send out review copies to 22 people, but most presses have complied. We then run a first round of ballots in which members rank their top three books. This gives us a short list, which this year amounted to the four finalists--Eleanor Rand Wilner, Spencer Reece, Joshua Mehigan, and Catherine Tufariello. In the final round, each member voted for one book. Turariello's book received the most votes. In other years, this final round has been extended, because of ties, to one more "final" round, and twice we awarded co-winners--Betty Adcock and Carolyn Kizer and Leon Stokesbury and Sydney Lea. I am going to try to refine this process next year to see if anyone has any advice about how it could be made more efficient. It's very hard to get a consensus with so many members and so many books. We have no hard and fast rule about nominated books, but it does seem to be the general feeling that we should be looking primarily at individual books instead of selected or collected poems, though these types have won in the past. In general, our sense has been that the award should go to a poet who has been overlooked for major awards, though this, too, hasn't always been the case. It was unusual that three of the four top books this year were first books. The prize was originally established by Frederick Morgan, Robert McDowell, and Louis Simpson some twenty years ago. Membership of the committee has changed over the years, and the number of voting members has held at around 20. If a member resigns, he or she is replaced by the chair, in consultation with former chairs (most recently Robert Phillips and David Mason). Each member puts up $150 to support the prize, and we occasionally have bequests which pay for announcements of the award. There will be one in the spring issue of Hudson Review and another in the May issue of Poetry. Richard Forester, a committee member, also runs an announcement in his Chautauqua Literary Journal. We also place announcements in Poets & Writer and the AWP journal. The money is handled by the West Chester University Poetry Center. I hope it's not presumptuous of me to say that donations from non-members, however small, would be greatly appreciated. All donations are tax-deductible. Checks should be made out to Poets' Prize--West Chester University Center, and sent to Poetry Center, Department of English, West Chester University of PA West Chester, PA 19383. Last year's award went to Robert Wrigley for Lives of the Animals. Runners-up were Julie Kane, Tony Hoagland, and Joseph Harrison. This year, our event takes place Thursday May 18 at the Nicholas Roerich Museum on W. 107th St (about two blocks off Broadway). The Roerich Museum generously provides us space for the event and refreshments. We read single poems by the finalists (some of whom have attended and have read in the past) and invite the winner to give a short reading. Please plan to attend if you're in the area! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Apr 19 22:17:41 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:17:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry In-Reply-To: <9FF5E60D-33C1-4F39-A672-BAED226405C6@ripon.edu> References: <9FF5E60D-33C1-4F39-A672-BAED226405C6@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <28C8E508-F0A3-438A-8D4B-89D67BDAB187@ripon.edu> Dear Superman I know you think that things will always be the same: I'll rinse out your tights, kiss you good-bye at the window, and every few weeks get kidnapped by some stellar goons. But I'm not getting any younger, and you're not getting any older. Pretty soon I'll be too frail to take aloft, and with all those nick-of-time rescues, you're bound to pick up somebody more tender and just as ga-ga as I used to be. I'd hate her for being 17 and you for being? what, 700? I can see your sweet face as you read this, and I know you'd like to siphon off some strength for me, even if it meant you could only leap small buildings at a single bound. But you can't, and, anyway, would I want to just stand there while everything else rushed past? Take care of yourself and of the world which is your own true love. One day soon, as you patrol the curved earth, that'll be me down there tucked in for good, being what you'll never be but still Your friend, Lois Lane -- Ron Koertge. Geography of the Forehead (University of Arkansas Press). ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chan_jt at hotmail.com Thu Apr 20 04:06:02 2006 From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:06:02 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] "descending poem" (new form) Message-ID: At the poetry forum, Capriole, for fun, we were told to invent a new form...i did and called the form, descending poem--poem of nine lines of free verse with three stanzas of four lines, three lines, and two lines, in that order. The first four lines of the poem must introduce the subject. The next three lines should show conflict or tension which is overturned or dissolved in the third stanza. The overall feel of the poem is one of surrender or letting go. I just wrote the following poem..i don't know if it's the best example, but just to illustrate...Anybody want to try it? ;) Thanks. Light we talk about things not worth mentioning how many there are how many senses to fill, to endanger the light falls across the kitchen floor regards Jill Chan http://navelorange.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 20 07:06:27 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:06:27 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] some kind of perfection Message-ID: <00be01c6646a$78ebfb40$98ab3252@ANNY> FISH AND THE SHADOW The salmon-trout drifts in the stream, The soul of the salmon-trout floats over the stream Like a little wafer of light. The salmon moves in the sun-shot, bright shallow sea . As light as the shadow of the fish that falls through the water, She came into the large room by the stair, Yawning a little she came with the sleep still upon her. "I am just from bed. The sleep is still in my eyes. Come. I have had a long dream." And I: "That wood? And two springs have passed us." "Not so far, no, not so far now, There is a place-but no one else knows it- A field in a valley . Qu'ieu sui avinen, Ieu lo sai." She must speak of the time Of Arnaut de Mareuil, I thought, "qu'ieu sui avinen." Light as the shadow of the fish That falls through the pale green water. Personae, Ezra Pound (avinen - handsome) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 20 07:56:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:56:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Superpoetry References: <20060419161628.883D82E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com> <27E7C032-B433-4D45-B42E-C97576E74C79@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00f901c66471$77feb0e0$98ab3252@ANNY> Marinetti, his manifesto the same Dante, they are all in hell roasting and he gets up up there to Paradise. From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:25 PM The Iliad Hal "Art is controversial." --Madonna Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 19, 2006, at 12:16 PM, wrote: What's a good poem about superheroes? _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 07:59:05 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:59:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman References: <00be01c6646a$78ebfb40$98ab3252@ANNY> Message-ID: <003a01c66471$d3331460$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/la-ca-howl16apr16,1,1167233.story >From the Los Angeles Times POETRY Songs of ourselves Ginsberg's 'Howl' hits AARP age. Can it last like Whitman's work? By Christopher Reynolds Times Staff Writer April 16, 2006 PUT your ear to the ground, America. Those yelps and yawps you hear come from some of the best minds of this generation, sparring, historical and occasionally half-baked, heaving up bold thoughts about a dead, bearded gay poet from New Jersey. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl," the 3,600-word verbal torrent that stands as founding document of the Beat movement, turns 50 this year. No piece of verse since 1956 has sent such ripples through American culture, and no poet since has parlayed his words into such fame. By the time Ginsberg died in 1997, he'd toured with Dylan and recorded with the Clash, ingested vast amounts of drugs, posed for Rolling Stone, embraced Buddhism and pitched khakis for the Gap. As 20th century poets go, he was a rock star. But now he's a dead rock star, America, and frankly, we have plenty of those. With Ginsberg, the pressing questions are whether his words have begun to outlive their time - all signs points to yes - and how he's stacking up against that other rock star among poets. That other dead, bearded, gay, great mid-Atlantic American poet. The one from the 19th century. Whitman, America. For decades, the parallels and contrasts between Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" and Ginsberg's "Howl and Other Poems" - the great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the 1850s and the great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the 1950s - have made for great coffeehouse and campus-quad debates. Now there's an extra edge on the conversation, and it crosses generations in intriguing ways. "The bloom is off the rose with old Allen, baby," says Richard MacBriar, confessed poetry junkie and longtime buyer for UCLA's Book Zone. " 'Leaves of Grass' is important. 'Howl' is better," maintains Sophia Grady, a 17-year-old shelver at Skylight Books in Los Feliz. "Whitman is the greater poet. He wrote prolifically across a long career with no diminution of excellence," says Dana Gioia, a veteran poet, essayist and chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts. Yet Ginsberg was "the last guy to really catch the public's imagination with a poem," Gioia concedes, and his humor comes through more clearly - even though Ginsberg's signature poem is mostly about horror and defeat and Whitman's is mostly about sensuality and community. "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,/ starving hysterical naked," wrote Ginsberg, beginning "Howl." "I celebrate myself,/ And what I assume you shall assume,/ For every atom belonging to me, as good belongs to you," wrote Whitman in "Song of Myself," the long centerpiece poem that anchors "Leaves of Grass." Each poem is a sort of political manifesto, addressed specifically to all Americans, intended to challenge the nation's sense of itself. Oh, yes, and each poem hints at oral sex. We take you now to the White House, America, and the year 1997. President Clinton wishes to ply a young mistress with poetry. "Leaves of Grass" is his choice. "Whitman is so rich," writes Monica Lewinsky in an unsent thank-you note, "that one must read him like one tastes a fine wine or good cigar - take it in, roll it in your mouth, and savor it!" Yes, America, it's true. It's in the Starr Report. "Whitman's contribution has lasted, but it's plowed into the soil of American poetry and thought," says Malcolm Margolin, founder-publisher at Berkeley-based Heyday Books. "What Ginsberg has that Whitman didn't have is rage. You read him for the cleansing purity of the rage he had. And I think there's greatness in that. I mean, he just roared." * Not so very different GINSBERG, born in Newark to a teacher-poet father and an activist mother with chronic mental illness, attended Columbia University in the 1940s, met Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs and set off on a long bout of travel and dead-end jobs, from the merchant marines to a Madison Avenue ad agency to handling baggage at the Greyhound bus terminal in San Francisco. With publication of "Howl," he burst into four decades of public life as a beatnik, hippie and eventually a tenured professor at Brooklyn College. A few years before his death, he sold his archives to Stanford University for $1 million. And since his death? At strait-laced Vroman's in Pasadena and at bohemian Skylight Books in Los Feliz, "Howl" sells six copies for every five of "Leaves of Grass." At City Lights in San Francisco's North Beach - the bookstore that first published "Howl," a million copies ago - the ratio is more like 50 to 1. None of this, however, impresses the readers and critics who see Ginsberg as the sideshow in the carnival tent of American poetry and Whitman as the main event. To write like Ginsberg, James Dickey once spat in the New York Times Book Review, one needs only memories, frustrations, secret wishes and "an ability to write elementary prose and to supply it with rather more exclamation points than might normally be called for. It takes more than this to make poetry. It just does." Whitman, dead 113 years, gets more Google hits than Ginsberg. He gets more space in the stacks of the Los Angeles Public Library. He gets his own chapter on the Cliffs Notes website, and his name is found on public schools across the land. This term at UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC and Stanford, a collective five professors have ordered their students to buy "Leaves of Grass," while three have assigned "Howl." (Many literature classes use anthologies that include both poets.) But here's a question, America: Are these poets really so different? Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" was published in 1855, then again in 1856 with a big endorsement from literary lion Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ginsberg's "Howl" was first read in public in 1955, then published in October 1956 with a big endorsement from literary lion William Carlos Williams. "Leaves of Grass" was banned in Boston, which aided sales all over. "Howl" provoked a San Francisco obscenity prosecution, which failed in state court, aiding sales all over. Starting out, Whitman apprenticed as a printer for the Long Island Patriot and later edited the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Ginsberg worked as a copy boy for the New York World Telegram and later reviewed books for Newsweek. Whitman wrote three anonymous rave reviews of his own work, once proclaiming "an American bard at last!" Ginsberg stepped up to celebrated poet Stanley Kunitz, handed over "Howl," and said: "I want you to read the greatest poem of the century." Whitman, who suffered from depression, had his brother Jesse committed to a lunatic asylum. Ginsberg, who in his 20s spent eight months in a psychiatric institute, approved a lobotomy for his mother. Whitman wrote: "I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the journeywork of the stars,/ And the pismire is equally perfect, and a grain of sand, and the eggs of the wren .. " Ginsberg wrote: "Holy the sea holy the desert holy the railroad holy the locomotive holy the visions holy the hallucinations holy the miracles holy the eyeball holy the abyss!" Ginsberg, who published his big poem at 29, endured his mother's death the same year. Whitman, who published his big poem at 35, suffered his father's death the same year. Whitman engaged deeply in politics and mourned in verse the assassination of President Lincoln in 1865. Ginsberg engaged deeply in politics and mourned in verse the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963. Horrified by the toll of the Civil War, Whitman visited veterans' hospitals in Washington. Horrified by the toll of the Vietnam War, Ginsberg sat on a stage amid the tumult outside the Chicago Democratic Convention in 1968 and chanted "Om." Whitman liked to say his song resounded "over the roofs of the world." Ginsberg sounded his howl "across the tops of/ cities." Whitman wrote "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd." Ginsberg coined the phrase "flower power." Also, Ginsberg's secretary of State .. Sorry, America. Lost the thread there for a second. For poet and professor Timothy Steele of Cal State L.A., who has spent years crusading to bring back rhyme and meter, Ginsberg and Whitman both stand for "anti-intellectualism and unguarded celebration of the sensation," which Steele finds "deeply and troublingly American." Both were "poseurs and promoters," yet also somehow "authentic and original," writes Jonah Raskin in his 2004 book "American Scream: Allen Ginsberg's Howl and the Making of the Beat Generation." "I don't see them competing with each other. I see them on my bookshelf, gleaming with genius, insight and sex," says Lewis MacAdams, a Los Angeles author and poet who was friendly with Ginsberg. "I think Allen consciously thought of himself in the tradition of Whitman, but I don't think he was ever trying to beat Whitman, or be Whitman, for that matter." The parallels go only so far. Whitman made his reputation in an era of slow-moving media and did some of his best work near the end of his life. Ginsberg hit it big fast and clung to fame through force of personality while early boosters scorned many of his later poems. Whitman was nervous enough about being seen as gay that he once claimed (with no evidence) to have fathered six children out of wedlock. Ginsberg, on the other hand, wrote an ode to his sphincter. He also claimed that one of his lovers, Neal Cassady, had slept with the aged Gavin Arthur (grandson of President Chester Arthur), who had slept with an English author named Edward Carpenter, who had slept with Whitman. Four degrees. Both poets sneered at academics (though Whitman started as a teacher and Ginsberg became one). And both, as Heyday's Margolin points out, inspired "reams of rotten poetry" from self-indulgent imitators, along with the occasional treasure. Cultural critic Greil Marcus has suggested that Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" was more influenced by "Howl" than any piece of music. * Other voices raise a howl AMERICA, here's the thing. If you disqualify T.S. Eliot for spending most of his life in London, and you disqualify as insufficiently serious the guy who wrote "Casey at the Bat," and the guy who wrote "I think that I shall never shall see/ A poem lovely as a tree," and you exclude Maya Angelou for endorsing her own line of Hallmark greeting cards - well in that case, America, your Whitman-Ginsberg debate might really be something larger. You may be arguing over which literary outlaw wrote the most influential poem in American history. In the just-published essay collection "The Poem That Changed America: 'Howl' 50 Years Later," poet Marge Piercy remembers how a Ginsberg reading "reopened the world to me" and inspired her to reach beyond her secretarial job and rededicate herself to writing personal poetry. In the same book, poet, essayist, professor and radio commentator Andrei Codrescu remembers reading a crudely translated "Howl" in 1963 as a teen in Romania and immediately falling into a Whitman-Ginsberg debate. What he dared not say aloud in that debate, Codrescu writes, is that "I had become instantly infected by an irresistible appetite for freedom, that I wanted to be epically, infamously bad, that I wanted to test the limits of my mind and the far reaches of liberty, that . I wanted to become American." By 1967, Codrescu was in New York, and he saw "Howl" as "an attitude, a monument, a fact of life, beyond good and evil, beyond Ginsberg. It just was." Ginsberg died in New York nine years ago this month - on April 5, 1997, 70 years old. Some of his ashes went to a Buddhist center in Colorado, some to another Buddhist center in Michigan, and some to a family cemetery plot in Newark. Whitman died at 72 and was buried in Camden, N.J., near his longtime home. Which means, America, that to some degree it's pointless to look for distinctions between Ginsberg and Whitman anymore. They're together forever, fertilizing New Jersey. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Apr 20 08:55:53 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:55:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "descending poem" (new form) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <648208b60604200555j791a3b5oad9c7d2887254d2b@mail.gmail.com> On 4/20/06, JT Chan wrote: > At the poetry forum, Capriole, for fun, we were told to invent a new > form...i did and called the form, descending poem--poem of nine lines of > free verse with three stanzas of four lines, three lines, and two lines, in > that order. The first four lines of the poem must introduce the subject. The > next three lines should show conflict or tension which is overturned or > dissolved in the third stanza. The overall feel of the poem is one of > surrender or letting go. > > I just wrote the following poem..i don't know if it's the best example, but > just to illustrate...Anybody want to try it? ;) Thanks. > > Light > > we talk > about things > not worth > mentioning > > how many there are > how many senses > to fill, to endanger > > the light falls > across the kitchen floor > > regards > > Jill Chan > http://navelorange.blogspot.com ? It's a free call to talk with the dead between two and three a.m. and it's connected for you You assemble three brothers slouching in chairs differently The one who should not be there leaves as he should -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org From JforJames at aol.com Thu Apr 20 09:43:37 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:43:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but Message-ID: <309.388c181.3178ea09@aol.com> In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hruggier at localnet.com writes: Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gbach at csulb.edu Thu Apr 20 10:46:33 2006 From: gbach at csulb.edu (Glenn Bach) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:46:33 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Superpoetry References: <200604200133.k3K1Xw8Z005529@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <44479EC9.20601@csulb.edu> >>What's a good poem about superheroes? A prose poem from Charles Harper Webb--one of my favorites of his. G. Superman, Old He can still fly, and squeeze coal into diamonds, and see through walls and women's clothes; but sometimes, speeding through clouds, he loses control and tumbles like a spent bullet end over end, or forgets where he's going and has to take a taxi home. He lives alone--Clark Kent, retired reporter--but believes spies sneak into his room and steal his shoes. Old Daily Planets heap up in his hall. The Health Department calls about cockroaches. He shoves the inspector through a wall. When Jimmy Olsen dies, then Perry White, he wants to die too. But Earth lacks kryptonite. Three knives shatter on his wrists. Eight bullets of ascending caliber ping off his skull. He jumps in front of a train. It derails, killing fifty; he walks away. His tantrums topple tall buildings. The SWAT Team sent for him retreats with casualties. The CIA finds Lois in a nursing home. Kidneys shot and colon gone, she says she'll help. A helicopter lowers her wheelchair into the rubble where Superman sleeps. She leans down to stroke his cheek. "Superman? It's me." He jerks upright, eyes baffled. "Who are you?" "I'm your mother, Superman," she lies. His brow softens. "I missed you, Mom." "Do you remember Lois Lane?" she asks. He scrunches up his face--still young and handsome as a boy's. "Kinda," he says. "She was pretty." "Lex Luthor has her. Up there." Lois points at Cassiopeia, glittering. "Can you see her?" Superman squints. "I don't know . . ." She takes his hand, still strong as steel. "Lois needs you, Superman. You've got to save her." "Lois," he whispers, and stands. She straightens his cape. "Who are you?" he asks. "Your mother, Superman. Save Lois. Please." "Save Louis," he says. Stretching hands above his head, he bends his knees. "Fly, Clark," she says, then grips his cape, and lets his leap yank her up out of her wheelchair. Her heart slows; then, as the air thins, it stops, her hands relax, and she falls like the last booster of a rocket that, an instant later, begins tumbling end over end toward its home in the stars. Charles Harper Webb from: Hot Popsicles University of Wisconsin Press From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 14:44:54 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:44:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but References: <309.388c181.3178ea09@aol.com> Message-ID: <004a01c664aa$843dd320$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I do a similar assignment -- it's actually my usual first assignment to a beginning poetry workshop. Trying to get them to think about process, rather than feelings. Write a poem that obeys the following rules: 3 stanzas, each 5 lines long. Each line must contain 8-12 syllables. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three enjambments in each stanza. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three strong caesuras (period or semicolon break) in each stanza. Each stanza must have a different dominant vowel sound. You'll probably want to use assonance rather than rhyme to create this effect. I won't give a count for how many times you should use that dominant vowel in the stanza, but your goal should be that the reader feels the effect of the dominant vowel, but is not bludgeoned by it. The poem can't mean anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hruggier at localnet.com writes: Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Apr 20 14:55:52 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:55:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Word of the Day Message-ID: <731bb17a0604201155kad5d596if48790acefff30de@mail.gmail.com> http://wordsmith.org/words/amphigory.html I'd never heard of an "Amphigory." Anyone ever written one? Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 15:20:46 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:20:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Word of the Day References: <731bb17a0604201155kad5d596if48790acefff30de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006601c664af$88c95c70$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Here's one by Swinburne: NEPHELIDIA Nephelidia, which parodies the author's own style, is an example of an amphigouri. >From the depth of the dreamy decline of the dawn through a notable nimbus of nebulous noonshine, Pallid and pink as the palm of the flag-flower that flickers with fear of the flies as they float, Are they looks of our lovers that lustrously lean from a marvel of mystic miraculous moonshine, These that we feel in the blood of our blushes that thicken and threaten with throbs through the throat? Thicken and thrill as a theatre thronged at appeal of an actor's appalled agitation, Fainter with fear of the fires of the future than pale with the promise of pride in the past; Flushed with the famishing fullness of fever that reddens with radiance of rathe recreation, Gaunt as the ghastliest of glimpses that gleam through the gloom of the gloaming when ghosts go aghast? Nay, for the nick of the tick of the time is a tremulous touch on the temples of terror, Strained as the sinews yet strenuous with strife of the dead who is dumb as the dust-heaps of death: Surely no soul is it, sweet as the spasm of erotic emotional exquisite error, Bathed in the balms of beatified bliss, beatific itself by beatitude's breath. Surely no spirit or sense of a soul that was soft to the spirit and soul of our senses Sweetens the stress of suspiring suspicion that sobs in the semblance and sound of a sigh; Only this oracle opens Olympian, in mystical moods and triangular tenses-- "Life is the lust of a lamp for the light that is dark till the dawn of the day when we die. Mild is the mirk and monotonous music of memory, melodiously mute as it may be, While the hope in the heart of a hero is bruised by the breach of men's rapiers, resigned to the rod; Made meek as a mother whose bosom-beats bound with the bliss-bringing bulk of a balm-breathing baby, As they grope through the grave-yard of creeds, under skies growing green at a groan for the grimness of God. Blank is the book of his bounty beholden of old, and its binding is blacker than bluer: Out of blue into black is the scheme of the skies, and their dews are the wine of the bloodshed of things; Till the darkling desire of delight shall be free as a fawn that is freed from the fangs that pursue her, Till the heart-beats of hell shall be hushed by a hymn from the hunt that has harried the kennel of kings. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Word of the Day http://wordsmith.org/words/amphigory.html I'd never heard of an "Amphigory." Anyone ever written one? Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 15:27:07 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:27:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Word of the Day References: <731bb17a0604201155kad5d596if48790acefff30de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007001c664b0$6a1c5060$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> But I'd say the master of American amphigorey (not counting Edward Gorey, who used it as a title for one of his books, but didn't really write them) is Walt Kelly: Deck Us All With Boston Charlie Deck us all with Boston Charlie, Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo! Nora's freezin' on the trolley, Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo! Don't we know archaic barrel Lullaby Lilla Boy, Louisville Lou? Trolley Molly don't love Harold, Boola boola Pensacola hullabaloo! Oh roar a roar for Nora, Nora Alice in the night, For she has seen Aurora Borealis burning bright. Oh, a furor for our Nora, And applaud Aurora seen, Oh where, throughout the summer Has our Borealis been? The king and the queen were quirling at quoits In the meadow behind the mere, Though mainly the meadow was middled with mow An heretical hitherto here. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:55 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Word of the Day http://wordsmith.org/words/amphigory.html I'd never heard of an "Amphigory." Anyone ever written one? Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 20 15:32:31 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 21:32:31 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but References: <309.388c181.3178ea09@aol.com> <004a01c664aa$843dd320$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <004301c664b1$2b8bd090$65a83852@ANNY> This their first assignment? And they come back a second time, you must be very charismatic. From: TheOldMole Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:44 PM I do a similar assignment -- it's actually my usual first assignment to a beginning poetry workshop. Trying to get them to think about process, rather than feelings. Write a poem that obeys the following rules: 3 stanzas, each 5 lines long. Each line must contain 8-12 syllables. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three enjambments in each stanza. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three strong caesuras (period or semicolon break) in each stanza. Each stanza must have a different dominant vowel sound. You'll probably want to use assonance rather than rhyme to create this effect. I won't give a count for how many times you should use that dominant vowel in the stanza, but your goal should be that the reader feels the effect of the dominant vowel, but is not bludgeoned by it. The poem can't mean anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hruggier at localnet.com writes: Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Thu Apr 20 16:01:50 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:01:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Word of the Day In-Reply-To: <006601c664af$88c95c70$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <731bb17a0604201155kad5d596if48790acefff30de@mail.gmail.com> <006601c664af$88c95c70$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <648208b60604201301h6870d62dnf0f95d607580ce90@mail.gmail.com> At last I can exclaim about a student's work: Why, that's an Amphigouri Nephelidia! I must confess I never cottoned to Swinburne's work until now. If he could kick the alliteration he'd be on to something. Alas, he's dead. - Jim On 4/20/06, TheOldMole wrote: > Here's one by Swinburne: > > > NEPHELIDIA > Nephelidia, which parodies the author's own style, is an example of an > amphigouri. > > > > > >From the depth of the dreamy decline of the dawn through a notable nimbus > of nebulous noonshine, > Pallid and pink as the palm of the flag-flower that flickers with fear > of the flies as they float, > Are they looks of our lovers that lustrously lean from a marvel of mystic > miraculous moonshine, > These that we feel in the blood of our blushes that thicken and threaten > with throbs through the throat? > Thicken and thrill as a theatre thronged at appeal of an actor's appalled > agitation, > Fainter with fear of the fires of the future than pale with the promise > of pride in the past; > Flushed with the famishing fullness of fever that reddens with radiance of > rathe recreation, > Gaunt as the ghastliest of glimpses that gleam through the gloom of the > gloaming when ghosts go aghast? > Nay, for the nick of the tick of the time is a tremulous touch on the > temples of terror, > Strained as the sinews yet strenuous with strife of the dead who is dumb > as the dust-heaps of death: > Surely no soul is it, sweet as the spasm of erotic emotional exquisite > error, > Bathed in the balms of beatified bliss, beatific itself by beatitude's > breath. > Surely no spirit or sense of a soul that was soft to the spirit and soul of > our senses > Sweetens the stress of suspiring suspicion that sobs in the semblance > and sound of a sigh; > Only this oracle opens Olympian, in mystical moods and triangular tenses-- > "Life is the lust of a lamp for the light that is dark till the dawn of > the day when we die. > Mild is the mirk and monotonous music of memory, melodiously mute as it may > be, > While the hope in the heart of a hero is bruised by the breach of men's > rapiers, resigned to the rod; > Made meek as a mother whose bosom-beats bound with the bliss-bringing bulk > of a balm-breathing baby, > As they grope through the grave-yard of creeds, under skies growing > green at a groan for the grimness of God. > Blank is the book of his bounty beholden of old, and its binding is blacker > than bluer: > Out of blue into black is the scheme of the skies, and their dews are > the wine of the bloodshed of things; > Till the darkling desire of delight shall be free as a fawn that is freed > from the fangs that pursue her, > Till the heart-beats of hell shall be hushed by a hymn from the hunt > that has harried the kennel of kings. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Newberry > To: NewPoetry > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:55 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] Word of the Day > > > http://wordsmith.org/words/amphigory.html > > I'd never heard of an "Amphigory." Anyone ever written one? > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." > --Miguel de Unamuno > > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 16:17:58 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:17:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but References: <309.388c181.3178ea09@aol.com><004a01c664aa$843dd320$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <004301c664b1$2b8bd090$65a83852@ANNY> Message-ID: <009901c664b7$84af94d0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I'm kinda mean. But they do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but This their first assignment? And they come back a second time, you must be very charismatic. From: TheOldMole Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:44 PM I do a similar assignment -- it's actually my usual first assignment to a beginning poetry workshop. Trying to get them to think about process, rather than feelings. Write a poem that obeys the following rules: 3 stanzas, each 5 lines long. Each line must contain 8-12 syllables. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three enjambments in each stanza. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three strong caesuras (period or semicolon break) in each stanza. Each stanza must have a different dominant vowel sound. You'll probably want to use assonance rather than rhyme to create this effect. I won't give a count for how many times you should use that dominant vowel in the stanza, but your goal should be that the reader feels the effect of the dominant vowel, but is not bludgeoned by it. The poem can't mean anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hruggier at localnet.com writes: Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. Finnegan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Apr 20 16:22:36 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:22:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Another found spam poem! Message-ID: <3bd.a897af.3179478c@cs.com> Morning Lemma ask you.. when u wake up, u still have those problems getting up b/c of the pain? If it's yes, the read this at http://www.itisnowfordoyou.com/lp/ , they can assist u. who seemed set to achieve their goals failed miserably without any explainable reason. It is of it. It may be said that the entity that you call fate was nothing but a sequence of events. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 20 16:19:24 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:19:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] chosen by Ted Kooser Message-ID: <007001c664b7$baa0c910$65a83852@ANNY> American Life in Poetry: Column 056 BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE When I complained about some of the tedious jobs I had as a boy, my mother would tell me, Ted, all work is honorable. In this poem, Don Welch gives us a man who's been fixing barbed wire fences all his life. At the Edge of Town Hard to know which is more gnarled, the posts he hammers staples into or the blue hummocks which run across his hands like molehills. Work has reduced his wrists to bones, cut out of him the easy flesh and brought him down to this, the crowbar's teeth caught just behind a barb. Again this morning the crowbar's neck will make its blue slip into wood, there will be that moment when too much strength will cause the wire to break. But even at 70, he says, he has to have it right, and more than right. This morning, in the pewter light, he has the scars to prove it. >From "Gutter Flowers," Logan House, 2005. Copyright (c) 2005 by Don Welch and reprinted by permission of Logan House and the author. This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. This column does not accept unsolicited poetry. ****************************** American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications with a free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. The sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American Life in Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in our culture. There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do require that you register your publication here and that the text of the column be reproduced without alteration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 20 16:26:53 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:26:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] chosen by Ted Kooser In-Reply-To: <007001c664b7$baa0c910$65a83852@ANNY> References: <007001c664b7$baa0c910$65a83852@ANNY> Message-ID: <165A2C5E-4DF4-4E12-8E3F-811844A9FE79@earthlink.net> "Hay for the Horses" w/o that old Snyderian charm. Hal "Context is everything that content is not." --Anon. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 20, 2006, at 4:19 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > American Life in Poetry: Column 056 > > BY TED KOOSER, U.S. POET LAUREATE > > When I complained about some of the tedious jobs I had as a boy, my > mother would tell me, Ted, all work is honorable. In this poem, Don > Welch gives us a man who's been fixing barbed wire fences all his > life. > > > At the Edge of Town > > Hard to know which is more gnarled, > the posts he hammers staples into > or the blue hummocks which run > across his hands like molehills. > > Work has reduced his wrists > to bones, cut out of him > the easy flesh and brought him > down to this, the crowbar's teeth > > caught just behind a barb. > Again this morning > the crowbar's neck will make > its blue slip into wood, > > there will be that moment > when too much strength > will cause the wire to break. > But even at 70, he says, > > he has to have it right, > and more than right. > This morning, in the pewter light, > he has the scars to prove it. > > > From "Gutter Flowers," Logan House, 2005. Copyright (c) 2005 by Don > Welch and reprinted by permission of Logan House and the author. > This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The > Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the > University of Nebraska-Lincoln. This column does not accept > unsolicited poetry. > > ****************************** > > American Life in Poetry provides newspapers and online publications > with a free weekly column featuring contemporary American poems. > The sole mission of this project is to promote poetry: American > Life in Poetry seeks to create a vigorous presence for poetry in > our culture. There are no costs for reprinting the columns; we do > require that you register your publication here and that the text > of the column be reproduced without alteration. > > Anny Ballardini > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome > http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html > I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a > dancing star! > Friedrich Nietzsche > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 20 17:00:25 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:00:25 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Alberto Savinio Message-ID: <001201c664bd$729c72d0$65a83852@ANNY> On the Green Integer Review 2, among others, Alberto Savinio: http://www.greeninteger.com/green_integer_review/issue_2/Alberto_Savinio.htm http://www.greeninteger.com/green_integer_review/issue_2/index.cfm Writer and artist Alberto Savinio was born in Athens in 1891 and died in Florence in 1952. The brother of artist Giorgio De Chirico, Savino became a noted, if eccentric, painter of surrealism. His numerous works of fiction and poetry include Hermaphrodite, La Casa Inspirta, The Childhood of Nivasio Dolcemare and numerous other works. Green Integer will publish a selection of his tales in 2007. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 20 17:21:23 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:21:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman In-Reply-To: <003a01c66471$d3331460$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <00be01c6646a$78ebfb40$98ab3252@ANNY> <003a01c66471$d3331460$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: Thanks for sending this, Tad. Thank God I'll never have to decide whether Whitman or Ginsberg is greater. Hal "I am no more humble than my talents require." --Oscar Levant Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 20, 2006, at 7:59 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/la-ca- > howl16apr16,1,1167233.story > > From the Los Angeles Times > > > POETRY > > Songs of ourselves > > Ginsberg's 'Howl' hits AARP age. Can it last like Whitman's work? > > By Christopher Reynolds > Times Staff Writer > > April 16, 2006 > > PUT your ear to the ground, America. Those yelps and yawps you hear > come from some of the best minds of this generation, sparring, > historical and occasionally half-baked, heaving up bold thoughts > about a dead, bearded gay poet from New Jersey. > > Allen Ginsberg's "Howl," the 3,600-word verbal torrent that stands > as founding document of the Beat movement, turns 50 this year. No > piece of verse since 1956 has sent such ripples through American > culture, and no poet since has parlayed his words into such fame. > By the time Ginsberg died in 1997, he'd toured with Dylan and > recorded with the Clash, ingested vast amounts of drugs, posed for > Rolling Stone, embraced Buddhism and pitched khakis for the Gap. As > 20th century poets go, he was a rock star. > > But now he's a dead rock star, America, and frankly, we have plenty > of those. With Ginsberg, the pressing questions are whether his > words have begun to outlive their time ? all signs points to yes ? > and how he's stacking up against that other rock star among poets. > > That other dead, bearded, gay, great mid-Atlantic American poet. > The one from the 19th century. Whitman, America. > > For decades, the parallels and contrasts between Walt Whitman's > "Leaves of Grass" and Ginsberg's "Howl and Other Poems" ? the great > unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the 1850s and > the great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the > 1950s ? have made for great coffeehouse and campus-quad debates. > Now there's an extra edge on the conversation, and it crosses > generations in intriguing ways. > > "The bloom is off the rose with old Allen, baby," says Richard > MacBriar, confessed poetry junkie and longtime buyer for UCLA's > Book Zone. > > " 'Leaves of Grass' is important. 'Howl' is better," maintains > Sophia Grady, a 17-year-old shelver at Skylight Books in Los Feliz. > > "Whitman is the greater poet. He wrote prolifically across a long > career with no diminution of excellence," says Dana Gioia, a > veteran poet, essayist and chairman of the National Endowment for > the Arts. > > Yet Ginsberg was "the last guy to really catch the public's > imagination with a poem," Gioia concedes, and his humor comes > through more clearly ? even though Ginsberg's signature poem is > mostly about horror and defeat and Whitman's is mostly about > sensuality and community. > > "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,/ > starving hysterical naked," wrote Ginsberg, beginning "Howl." > > "I celebrate myself,/ And what I assume you shall assume,/ For > every atom belonging to me, as good belongs to you," wrote Whitman > in "Song of Myself," the long centerpiece poem that anchors "Leaves > of Grass." > > Each poem is a sort of political manifesto, addressed specifically > to all Americans, intended to challenge the nation's sense of > itself. Oh, yes, and each poem hints at oral sex. > > We take you now to the White House, America, and the year 1997. > President Clinton wishes to ply a young mistress with poetry. > "Leaves of Grass" is his choice. > > "Whitman is so rich," writes Monica Lewinsky in an unsent thank-you > note, "that one must read him like one tastes a fine wine or good > cigar ? take it in, roll it in your mouth, and savor it!" > > Yes, America, it's true. It's in the Starr Report. "Whitman's > contribution has lasted, but it's plowed into the soil of American > poetry and thought," says Malcolm Margolin, founder-publisher at > Berkeley-based Heyday Books. "What Ginsberg has that Whitman didn't > have is rage. You read him for the cleansing purity of the rage he > had. And I think there's greatness in that. I mean, he just roared." > > * > > Not so very different > > GINSBERG, born in Newark to a teacher-poet father and an activist > mother with chronic mental illness, attended Columbia University in > the 1940s, met Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs and set off on a > long bout of travel and dead-end jobs, from the merchant marines to > a Madison Avenue ad agency to handling baggage at the Greyhound bus > terminal in San Francisco. > > With publication of "Howl," he burst into four decades of public > life as a beatnik, hippie and eventually a tenured professor at > Brooklyn College. A few years before his death, he sold his > archives to Stanford University for $1 million. And since his > death? At strait-laced Vroman's in Pasadena and at bohemian > Skylight Books in Los Feliz, "Howl" sells six copies for every five > of "Leaves of Grass." At City Lights in San Francisco's North Beach > ? the bookstore that first published "Howl," a million copies ago ? > the ratio is more like 50 to 1. > > None of this, however, impresses the readers and critics who see > Ginsberg as the sideshow in the carnival tent of American poetry > and Whitman as the main event. To write like Ginsberg, James Dickey > once spat in the New York Times Book Review, one needs only > memories, frustrations, secret wishes and "an ability to write > elementary prose and to supply it with rather more exclamation > points than might normally be called for. It takes more than this > to make poetry. It just does." > > Whitman, dead 113 years, gets more Google hits than Ginsberg. He > gets more space in the stacks of the Los Angeles Public Library. He > gets his own chapter on the Cliffs Notes website, and his name is > found on public schools across the land. This term at UCLA, UC > Berkeley, USC and Stanford, a collective five professors have > ordered their students to buy "Leaves of Grass," while three have > assigned "Howl." (Many literature classes use anthologies that > include both poets.) > > But here's a question, America: Are these poets really so different? > > Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" was published in 1855, then again in > 1856 with a big endorsement from literary lion Ralph Waldo Emerson. > Ginsberg's "Howl" was first read in public in 1955, then published > in October 1956 with a big endorsement from literary lion William > Carlos Williams. > > "Leaves of Grass" was banned in Boston, which aided sales all over. > "Howl" provoked a San Francisco obscenity prosecution, which failed > in state court, aiding sales all over. > > Starting out, Whitman apprenticed as a printer for the Long Island > Patriot and later edited the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Ginsberg worked > as a copy boy for the New York World Telegram and later reviewed > books for Newsweek. > > Whitman wrote three anonymous rave reviews of his own work, once > proclaiming "an American bard at last!" Ginsberg stepped up to > celebrated poet Stanley Kunitz, handed over "Howl," and said: "I > want you to read the greatest poem of the century." > > Whitman, who suffered from depression, had his brother Jesse > committed to a lunatic asylum. Ginsberg, who in his 20s spent eight > months in a psychiatric institute, approved a lobotomy for his mother. > > Whitman wrote: "I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the > journeywork of the stars,/ And the pismire is equally perfect, and > a grain of sand, and the eggs of the wren ?. " > > Ginsberg wrote: "Holy the sea holy the desert holy the railroad > holy the locomotive holy the visions holy the hallucinations holy > the miracles holy the eyeball holy the abyss!" > > Ginsberg, who published his big poem at 29, endured his mother's > death the same year. Whitman, who published his big poem at 35, > suffered his father's death the same year. > > Whitman engaged deeply in politics and mourned in verse the > assassination of President Lincoln in 1865. Ginsberg engaged deeply > in politics and mourned in verse the assassination of President > Kennedy in 1963. > > Horrified by the toll of the Civil War, Whitman visited veterans' > hospitals in Washington. Horrified by the toll of the Vietnam War, > Ginsberg sat on a stage amid the tumult outside the Chicago > Democratic Convention in 1968 and chanted "Om." > > Whitman liked to say his song resounded "over the roofs of the > world." Ginsberg sounded his howl "across the tops of/ cities." > > Whitman wrote "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd." Ginsberg > coined the phrase "flower power." > > Also, Ginsberg's secretary of State ?. > > Sorry, America. Lost the thread there for a second. > > For poet and professor Timothy Steele of Cal State L.A., who has > spent years crusading to bring back rhyme and meter, Ginsberg and > Whitman both stand for "anti-intellectualism and unguarded > celebration of the sensation," which Steele finds "deeply and > troublingly American." > > Both were "poseurs and promoters," yet also somehow "authentic and > original," writes Jonah Raskin in his 2004 book "American Scream: > Allen Ginsberg's Howl and the Making of the Beat Generation." > > "I don't see them competing with each other. I see them on my > bookshelf, gleaming with genius, insight and sex," says Lewis > MacAdams, a Los Angeles author and poet who was friendly with > Ginsberg. "I think Allen consciously thought of himself in the > tradition of Whitman, but I don't think he was ever trying to beat > Whitman, or be Whitman, for that matter." > > The parallels go only so far. Whitman made his reputation in an era > of slow-moving media and did some of his best work near the end of > his life. Ginsberg hit it big fast and clung to fame through force > of personality while early boosters scorned many of his later poems. > > Whitman was nervous enough about being seen as gay that he once > claimed (with no evidence) to have fathered six children out of > wedlock. > > Ginsberg, on the other hand, wrote an ode to his sphincter. He also > claimed that one of his lovers, Neal Cassady, had slept with the > aged Gavin Arthur (grandson of President Chester Arthur), who had > slept with an English author named Edward Carpenter, who had slept > with Whitman. Four degrees. > > Both poets sneered at academics (though Whitman started as a > teacher and Ginsberg became one). And both, as Heyday's Margolin > points out, inspired "reams of rotten poetry" from self-indulgent > imitators, along with the occasional treasure. Cultural critic > Greil Marcus has suggested that Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" > was more influenced by "Howl" than any piece of music. > > * > > Other voices raise a howl > > AMERICA, here's the thing. If you disqualify T.S. Eliot for > spending most of his life in London, and you disqualify as > insufficiently serious the guy who wrote "Casey at the Bat," and > the guy who wrote "I think that I shall never shall see/ A poem > lovely as a tree," and you exclude Maya Angelou for endorsing her > own line of Hallmark greeting cards ? well in that case, America, > your Whitman-Ginsberg debate might really be something larger. You > may be arguing over which literary outlaw wrote the most > influential poem in American history. > > In the just-published essay collection "The Poem That Changed > America: 'Howl' 50 Years Later," poet Marge Piercy remembers how a > Ginsberg reading "reopened the world to me" and inspired her to > reach beyond her secretarial job and rededicate herself to writing > personal poetry. > > In the same book, poet, essayist, professor and radio commentator > Andrei Codrescu remembers reading a crudely translated "Howl" in > 1963 as a teen in Romania and immediately falling into a Whitman- > Ginsberg debate. > > What he dared not say aloud in that debate, Codrescu writes, is > that "I had become instantly infected by an irresistible appetite > for freedom, that I wanted to be epically, infamously bad, that I > wanted to test the limits of my mind and the far reaches of > liberty, that ? I wanted to become American." By 1967, Codrescu was > in New York, and he saw "Howl" as "an attitude, a monument, a fact > of life, beyond good and evil, beyond Ginsberg. It just was." > > Ginsberg died in New York nine years ago this month ? on April 5, > 1997, 70 years old. Some of his ashes went to a Buddhist center in > Colorado, some to another Buddhist center in Michigan, and some to > a family cemetery plot in Newark. > > Whitman died at 72 and was buried in Camden, N.J., near his > longtime home. > > Which means, America, that to some degree it's pointless to look > for distinctions between Ginsberg and Whitman anymore. > > They're together forever, fertilizing New Jersey. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 18:31:49 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:31:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman References: <00be01c6646a$78ebfb40$98ab3252@ANNY><003a01c66471$d3331460$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <001e01c664ca$3737c110$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> And now, Mr. Johnson, for the $100,000 Grand Prize...Who is greater, Whitman or Ginsberg? ----- Original Message ----- From: Halvard Johnson To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman Thanks for sending this, Tad. Thank God I'll never have to decide whether Whitman or Ginsberg is greater. Hal "I am no more humble than my talents require." --Oscar Levant Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 20, 2006, at 7:59 AM, TheOldMole wrote: http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/la-ca-howl16apr16,1,1167233.story From the Los Angeles Times POETRY Songs of ourselves Ginsberg's 'Howl' hits AARP age. Can it last like Whitman's work? By Christopher Reynolds Times Staff Writer April 16, 2006 PUT your ear to the ground, America. Those yelps and yawps you hear come from some of the best minds of this generation, sparring, historical and occasionally half-baked, heaving up bold thoughts about a dead, bearded gay poet from New Jersey. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl," the 3,600-word verbal torrent that stands as founding document of the Beat movement, turns 50 this year. No piece of verse since 1956 has sent such ripples through American culture, and no poet since has parlayed his words into such fame. By the time Ginsberg died in 1997, he'd toured with Dylan and recorded with the Clash, ingested vast amounts of drugs, posed for Rolling Stone, embraced Buddhism and pitched khakis for the Gap. As 20th century poets go, he was a rock star. But now he's a dead rock star, America, and frankly, we have plenty of those. With Ginsberg, the pressing questions are whether his words have begun to outlive their time ? all signs points to yes ? and how he's stacking up against that other rock star among poets. That other dead, bearded, gay, great mid-Atlantic American poet. The one from the 19th century. Whitman, America. For decades, the parallels and contrasts between Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" and Ginsberg's "Howl and Other Poems" ? the great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the 1850s and the great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the 1950s ? have made for great coffeehouse and campus-quad debates. Now there's an extra edge on the conversation, and it crosses generations in intriguing ways. "The bloom is off the rose with old Allen, baby," says Richard MacBriar, confessed poetry junkie and longtime buyer for UCLA's Book Zone. " 'Leaves of Grass' is important. 'Howl' is better," maintains Sophia Grady, a 17-year-old shelver at Skylight Books in Los Feliz. "Whitman is the greater poet. He wrote prolifically across a long career with no diminution of excellence," says Dana Gioia, a veteran poet, essayist and chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts. Yet Ginsberg was "the last guy to really catch the public's imagination with a poem," Gioia concedes, and his humor comes through more clearly ? even though Ginsberg's signature poem is mostly about horror and defeat and Whitman's is mostly about sensuality and community. "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,/ starving hysterical naked," wrote Ginsberg, beginning "Howl." "I celebrate myself,/ And what I assume you shall assume,/ For every atom belonging to me, as good belongs to you," wrote Whitman in "Song of Myself," the long centerpiece poem that anchors "Leaves of Grass." Each poem is a sort of political manifesto, addressed specifically to all Americans, intended to challenge the nation's sense of itself. Oh, yes, and each poem hints at oral sex. We take you now to the White House, America, and the year 1997. President Clinton wishes to ply a young mistress with poetry. "Leaves of Grass" is his choice. "Whitman is so rich," writes Monica Lewinsky in an unsent thank-you note, "that one must read him like one tastes a fine wine or good cigar ? take it in, roll it in your mouth, and savor it!" Yes, America, it's true. It's in the Starr Report. "Whitman's contribution has lasted, but it's plowed into the soil of American poetry and thought," says Malcolm Margolin, founder-publisher at Berkeley-based Heyday Books. "What Ginsberg has that Whitman didn't have is rage. You read him for the cleansing purity of the rage he had. And I think there's greatness in that. I mean, he just roared." * Not so very different GINSBERG, born in Newark to a teacher-poet father and an activist mother with chronic mental illness, attended Columbia University in the 1940s, met Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs and set off on a long bout of travel and dead-end jobs, from the merchant marines to a Madison Avenue ad agency to handling baggage at the Greyhound bus terminal in San Francisco. With publication of "Howl," he burst into four decades of public life as a beatnik, hippie and eventually a tenured professor at Brooklyn College. A few years before his death, he sold his archives to Stanford University for $1 million. And since his death? At strait-laced Vroman's in Pasadena and at bohemian Skylight Books in Los Feliz, "Howl" sells six copies for every five of "Leaves of Grass." At City Lights in San Francisco's North Beach ? the bookstore that first published "Howl," a million copies ago ? the ratio is more like 50 to 1. None of this, however, impresses the readers and critics who see Ginsberg as the sideshow in the carnival tent of American poetry and Whitman as the main event. To write like Ginsberg, James Dickey once spat in the New York Times Book Review, one needs only memories, frustrations, secret wishes and "an ability to write elementary prose and to supply it with rather more exclamation points than might normally be called for. It takes more than this to make poetry. It just does." Whitman, dead 113 years, gets more Google hits than Ginsberg. He gets more space in the stacks of the Los Angeles Public Library. He gets his own chapter on the Cliffs Notes website, and his name is found on public schools across the land. This term at UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC and Stanford, a collective five professors have ordered their students to buy "Leaves of Grass," while three have assigned "Howl." (Many literature classes use anthologies that include both poets.) But here's a question, America: Are these poets really so different? Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" was published in 1855, then again in 1856 with a big endorsement from literary lion Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ginsberg's "Howl" was first read in public in 1955, then published in October 1956 with a big endorsement from literary lion William Carlos Williams. "Leaves of Grass" was banned in Boston, which aided sales all over. "Howl" provoked a San Francisco obscenity prosecution, which failed in state court, aiding sales all over. Starting out, Whitman apprenticed as a printer for the Long Island Patriot and later edited the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Ginsberg worked as a copy boy for the New York World Telegram and later reviewed books for Newsweek. Whitman wrote three anonymous rave reviews of his own work, once proclaiming "an American bard at last!" Ginsberg stepped up to celebrated poet Stanley Kunitz, handed over "Howl," and said: "I want you to read the greatest poem of the century." Whitman, who suffered from depression, had his brother Jesse committed to a lunatic asylum. Ginsberg, who in his 20s spent eight months in a psychiatric institute, approved a lobotomy for his mother. Whitman wrote: "I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the journeywork of the stars,/ And the pismire is equally perfect, and a grain of sand, and the eggs of the wren ?. " Ginsberg wrote: "Holy the sea holy the desert holy the railroad holy the locomotive holy the visions holy the hallucinations holy the miracles holy the eyeball holy the abyss!" Ginsberg, who published his big poem at 29, endured his mother's death the same year. Whitman, who published his big poem at 35, suffered his father's death the same year. Whitman engaged deeply in politics and mourned in verse the assassination of President Lincoln in 1865. Ginsberg engaged deeply in politics and mourned in verse the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963. Horrified by the toll of the Civil War, Whitman visited veterans' hospitals in Washington. Horrified by the toll of the Vietnam War, Ginsberg sat on a stage amid the tumult outside the Chicago Democratic Convention in 1968 and chanted "Om." Whitman liked to say his song resounded "over the roofs of the world." Ginsberg sounded his howl "across the tops of/ cities." Whitman wrote "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd." Ginsberg coined the phrase "flower power." Also, Ginsberg's secretary of State ?. Sorry, America. Lost the thread there for a second. For poet and professor Timothy Steele of Cal State L.A., who has spent years crusading to bring back rhyme and meter, Ginsberg and Whitman both stand for "anti-intellectualism and unguarded celebration of the sensation," which Steele finds "deeply and troublingly American." Both were "poseurs and promoters," yet also somehow "authentic and original," writes Jonah Raskin in his 2004 book "American Scream: Allen Ginsberg's Howl and the Making of the Beat Generation." "I don't see them competing with each other. I see them on my bookshelf, gleaming with genius, insight and sex," says Lewis MacAdams, a Los Angeles author and poet who was friendly with Ginsberg. "I think Allen consciously thought of himself in the tradition of Whitman, but I don't think he was ever trying to beat Whitman, or be Whitman, for that matter." The parallels go only so far. Whitman made his reputation in an era of slow-moving media and did some of his best work near the end of his life. Ginsberg hit it big fast and clung to fame through force of personality while early boosters scorned many of his later poems. Whitman was nervous enough about being seen as gay that he once claimed (with no evidence) to have fathered six children out of wedlock. Ginsberg, on the other hand, wrote an ode to his sphincter. He also claimed that one of his lovers, Neal Cassady, had slept with the aged Gavin Arthur (grandson of President Chester Arthur), who had slept with an English author named Edward Carpenter, who had slept with Whitman. Four degrees. Both poets sneered at academics (though Whitman started as a teacher and Ginsberg became one). And both, as Heyday's Margolin points out, inspired "reams of rotten poetry" from self-indulgent imitators, along with the occasional treasure. Cultural critic Greil Marcus has suggested that Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" was more influenced by "Howl" than any piece of music. * Other voices raise a howl AMERICA, here's the thing. If you disqualify T.S. Eliot for spending most of his life in London, and you disqualify as insufficiently serious the guy who wrote "Casey at the Bat," and the guy who wrote "I think that I shall never shall see/ A poem lovely as a tree," and you exclude Maya Angelou for endorsing her own line of Hallmark greeting cards ? well in that case, America, your Whitman-Ginsberg debate might really be something larger. You may be arguing over which literary outlaw wrote the most influential poem in American history. In the just-published essay collection "The Poem That Changed America: 'Howl' 50 Years Later," poet Marge Piercy remembers how a Ginsberg reading "reopened the world to me" and inspired her to reach beyond her secretarial job and rededicate herself to writing personal poetry. In the same book, poet, essayist, professor and radio commentator Andrei Codrescu remembers reading a crudely translated "Howl" in 1963 as a teen in Romania and immediately falling into a Whitman-Ginsberg debate. What he dared not say aloud in that debate, Codrescu writes, is that "I had become instantly infected by an irresistible appetite for freedom, that I wanted to be epically, infamously bad, that I wanted to test the limits of my mind and the far reaches of liberty, that ? I wanted to become American." By 1967, Codrescu was in New York, and he saw "Howl" as "an attitude, a monument, a fact of life, beyond good and evil, beyond Ginsberg. It just was." Ginsberg died in New York nine years ago this month ? on April 5, 1997, 70 years old. Some of his ashes went to a Buddhist center in Colorado, some to another Buddhist center in Michigan, and some to a family cemetery plot in Newark. Whitman died at 72 and was buried in Camden, N.J., near his longtime home. Which means, America, that to some degree it's pointless to look for distinctions between Ginsberg and Whitman anymore. They're together forever, fertilizing New Jersey. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Apr 20 18:39:10 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:39:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman Message-ID: <3bb.ac5fa1.3179678e@cs.com> How scary it is to think what our history would be if Clinton had swung the other way . . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 18:44:43 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 18:44:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "descending poem" (new form) References: Message-ID: <008601c664cc$045800a0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> You might as well let him in - he'll howl all night like steam escaping a subterranean grotto. You don't know if he wants you or just food, and you don't want to know what he eats; Hold your nose. Kiss him. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JT Chan" To: Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:06 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] "descending poem" (new form) > At the poetry forum, Capriole, for fun, we were told to invent a new > form...i did and called the form, descending poem--poem of nine lines of > free verse with three stanzas of four lines, three lines, and two lines, > in that order. The first four lines of the poem must introduce the > subject. The next three lines should show conflict or tension which is > overturned or dissolved in the third stanza. The overall feel of the poem > is one of surrender or letting go. > > I just wrote the following poem..i don't know if it's the best example, > but just to illustrate...Anybody want to try it? ;) Thanks. > > > Light > > > we talk > about things > not worth > mentioning > > how many there are > how many senses > to fill, to endanger > > the light falls > across the kitchen floor > > > > > > regards > > Jill Chan > http://navelorange.blogspot.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Apr 20 19:00:23 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:00:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman Message-ID: <29f.8e5c084.31796c87@cs.com> In a message dated 4/20/2006 4:32:35 PM Central Standard Time, tad at opus40.org writes: > > Which means, America, that to some degree it's pointless to look for > distinctions between Ginsberg and Whitman anymore. > > They're together forever, fertilizing New Jersey. > > Ginsberg said "my generation." Walt was a bit more expansive that that! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Apr 20 19:08:24 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:08:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman Message-ID: <1bb.3110648.31796e68@cs.com> In a message dated 4/20/2006 5:00:45 PM Central Standard Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: > > In a message dated 4/20/2006 4:32:35 PM Central Standard Time, > tad at opus40.org writes: > >> >> Which means, America, that to some degree it's pointless to look for >> distinctions between Ginsberg and Whitman anymore. >> >> They're together forever, fertilizing New Jersey. >> >> > > Ginsberg said "my generation." Walt was a bit more expansive that that! > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry "than that," I meant. Good shiraz. $5.99. Butterfield Station. Highly recommended. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Apr 20 12:08:17 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:08:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire Subdivision In-Reply-To: <013001c663fe$ecdb5d00$768e3052@ANNY> Message-ID: Tad, thanks for posting this delicious morsel. I love the double rhymes and satire. On 4/19/06 5:16 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: > Thanks god you were a good boy. > But do you write them during the night at a candlelight storm full blown & so > and such >> From: TheOldMole >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:38 PM >> >> Paul - I have a section on poets and vampires,too, in "Situations." Since >> it's short and since I've been a relatively good boy and not self-promoted >> here in a while, I'll post it here. >> >> >> Six hours later, Blanche and Rose, nonplussed, >> >> Are at a table in the Garden District. >> >> To be specific, Anne Rice has them trussed >> >> To chairs. ?I never thought that she'd be this strict,? >> >> >> >> Rose whispers. Blanche explains, ?It's the result >> >> Of a wide range of interests. Some of them >> >> Center around her love for the occult, >> >> The rest are all tied up with S&M.? >> >> >> >> ?Let's start the s?ance,? Blanche says. ?Wait?we're not >> >> All gathered yet,? says Rice. ?And on that note, >> >> I'd like to introduce my friend Lestat? >> >> He's taken quite a liking to your throat.? >> >> >> >> The spectral figure clears his throat: ?Forgive >> >> My late arrival?I've been in the lab since >> >> Just after tea?these days, it's where I live.? >> >> Rose thinks that in a field, he'd be the absence >> >> >> >> Of field; what's more, she notices that when >> >> He walks, he parts the air, and that it moves >> >> To fill the spaces where his body's been. >> >> ?M. Lestat,? Rose interjects, ?this proves >> >> >> >> You're something not quite human. Something morbid, >> >> Macabre, or even worse?perhaps a poet.? >> >> ?A poet? Me? Fat chance! Heaven forbid!? >> >> ?But you looked so much like never mind. Although it >> >> >> >> Still puzzles me. Why do you move?? ?To keep >> >> Things whole. Nonetheless, I'm no versifier. >> >> I'm the undead. I live by night. I sleep >> >> By day.? ?Right?you're a poet.? ?I'm a vampire, >> >> >> >> Dammit! And I can prove it!? Lestat whirls. >> >> With feral tread and eyes fixed like a predator, >> >> Lestat advances slowly toward the girls, >> >> Stops before Blanche's chair, lowers his head at her. >> >> >> >> It strikes Rose that unless she finds a recourse >> >> To Anne Rice and Lestat, there's every chance her >> >> Future is as dessert to Blanche's main course. >> >> Her only hope is Bob, the necromancer. >> >> >> >> Send me deliverance from this pursuer! >> >> A figure enters?not Bob?crimson cloaked, >> >> With lacquered hair and tapered manicure; >> >> He gestures at Lestat, who whispers, choked >> >> >> >> With terror, ?You?? ?Yes, me. Bob couldn't make it. >> >> He's occupied with knowledge to impart >> >> To Carlene's friends. I brought this stake?it >> >> should make the perfect lagniappe for your heart.? >> >> >> >> Lestat departs in haste. Anne Rice steps forward, >> >> Faces the stranger with a heaving bosom. >> >> She says, ?Monsieur, I am the one you've ordered, >> >> It's I alone can help you bridge the chasm >> >> >> >> Between the damned and the sublime. I know >> >> Secrets of knots and chains, how to insert >> >> Body parts where none would guess they'd go, >> >> Intricate pas de deux of bliss and hurt.? >> >> >> >> ?It's tempting,? says the stranger. ?But temptation >> >> Was my gift to mankind. I tend to doubt >> >> That even someone of your reputation >> >> Could dream up deviance I've not tried out.? >> >> >> >> Rose speaks: ?If I can show you a delight >> >> You've never tasted, Monsieur, in return >> >> Will you grant me one favor?" "Yes, I might? >> >> You understand that if you fail, you'll burn >> >> >> >> Eternally?" Rose says, "I'll take that gamble. >> >> Not like that Rice tart, with her whips and fetters; >> >> I'm thinking more of Mrs. Patrick Campbell >> >> And G. B. Shaw.? The Devil snickers, ?Letters? >> >> >> >> Perhaps you planned on boring me to death?? >> >> A new approach one without much attraction.? >> >> Rose thinks of what blue-veined Elizabeth >> >> Taught her about the art of satisfaction. >> >> >> >> Chaste stimulation leaves the Devil sated. >> >> Now he's in Rose's thrall. Bereft, Anne Rice's >> >> Bosom heaves its last, and lies deflated, >> >> As flaccid as her prose, or as her vices. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Apr 20 12:13:27 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:13:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: <309.388c181.3178ea09@aol.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/06 8:43 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: > In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > hruggier at localnet.com writes: >> Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at >> it and >> the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). > I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign > the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem > they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. > Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes > and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. > > Finnegan > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Roethke?s idea is not half bad. Only problem is that one of the difficulties beginning writers have is making sense. Maybe if they try deliberately not to, they?ll learn other interesting things too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Apr 20 19:52:13 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:52:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman In-Reply-To: <001e01c664ca$3737c110$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <00be01c6646a$78ebfb40$98ab3252@ANNY><003a01c66471$d3331460$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <001e01c664ca$3737c110$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: Oh, let's see-- Ginsberg or Whitman? Whitman or Ginsberg? Just remembered, you don't have $100K to give me so I still don't have to decide. Make a small down payment (say, $10K) and I might find I have to do so. Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 20, 2006, at 6:31 PM, TheOldMole wrote: > And now, Mr. Johnson, for the $100,000 Grand Prize...Who is > greater, Whitman or Ginsberg? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:21 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Ginsberg and Whitman > > Thanks for sending this, Tad. Thank God I'll never have > to decide whether Whitman or Ginsberg is greater. > > Hal > > "I am no more humble than my talents require." > --Oscar Levant > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Apr 20, 2006, at 7:59 AM, TheOldMole wrote: > >> http://www.latimes.com/features/lifestyle/la-ca- >> howl16apr16,1,1167233.story >> >> From the Los Angeles Times >> >> >> POETRY >> >> Songs of ourselves >> >> Ginsberg's 'Howl' hits AARP age. Can it last like Whitman's work? >> >> By Christopher Reynolds >> Times Staff Writer >> >> April 16, 2006 >> >> PUT your ear to the ground, America. Those yelps and yawps you >> hear come from some of the best minds of this generation, >> sparring, historical and occasionally half-baked, heaving up >> bold thoughts about a dead, bearded gay poet from New Jersey. >> >> Allen Ginsberg's "Howl," the 3,600-word verbal torrent that stands >> as founding document of the Beat movement, turns 50 this year. No >> piece of verse since 1956 has sent such ripples through American >> culture, and no poet since has parlayed his words into such fame. >> By the time Ginsberg died in 1997, he'd toured with Dylan and >> recorded with the Clash, ingested vast amounts of drugs, posed for >> Rolling Stone, embraced Buddhism and pitched khakis for the Gap. >> As 20th century poets go, he was a rock star. >> >> But now he's a dead rock star, America, and frankly, we have >> plenty of those. With Ginsberg, the pressing questions are whether >> his words have begun to outlive their time ? all signs points to >> yes ? and how he's stacking up against that other rock star among >> poets. >> >> That other dead, bearded, gay, great mid-Atlantic American poet. >> The one from the 19th century. Whitman, America. >> >> For decades, the parallels and contrasts between Walt Whitman's >> "Leaves of Grass" and Ginsberg's "Howl and Other Poems" ? the >> great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory sensation of the >> 1850s and the great unrhymed, long-lined, self-celebratory >> sensation of the 1950s ? have made for great coffeehouse and >> campus-quad debates. Now there's an extra edge on the >> conversation, and it crosses generations in intriguing ways. >> >> "The bloom is off the rose with old Allen, baby," says Richard >> MacBriar, confessed poetry junkie and longtime buyer for UCLA's >> Book Zone. >> >> " 'Leaves of Grass' is important. 'Howl' is better," maintains >> Sophia Grady, a 17-year-old shelver at Skylight Books in Los Feliz. >> >> "Whitman is the greater poet. He wrote prolifically across a long >> career with no diminution of excellence," says Dana Gioia, a >> veteran poet, essayist and chairman of the National Endowment for >> the Arts. >> >> Yet Ginsberg was "the last guy to really catch the public's >> imagination with a poem," Gioia concedes, and his humor comes >> through more clearly ? even though Ginsberg's signature poem is >> mostly about horror and defeat and Whitman's is mostly about >> sensuality and community. >> >> "I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness,/ >> starving hysterical naked," wrote Ginsberg, beginning "Howl." >> >> "I celebrate myself,/ And what I assume you shall assume,/ For >> every atom belonging to me, as good belongs to you," wrote Whitman >> in "Song of Myself," the long centerpiece poem that anchors >> "Leaves of Grass." >> >> Each poem is a sort of political manifesto, addressed specifically >> to all Americans, intended to challenge the nation's sense of >> itself. Oh, yes, and each poem hints at oral sex. >> >> We take you now to the White House, America, and the year 1997. >> President Clinton wishes to ply a young mistress with poetry. >> "Leaves of Grass" is his choice. >> >> "Whitman is so rich," writes Monica Lewinsky in an unsent thank- >> you note, "that one must read him like one tastes a fine wine or >> good cigar ? take it in, roll it in your mouth, and savor it!" >> >> Yes, America, it's true. It's in the Starr Report. "Whitman's >> contribution has lasted, but it's plowed into the soil of American >> poetry and thought," says Malcolm Margolin, founder-publisher at >> Berkeley-based Heyday Books. "What Ginsberg has that Whitman >> didn't have is rage. You read him for the cleansing purity of the >> rage he had. And I think there's greatness in that. I mean, he >> just roared." >> >> * >> >> Not so very different >> >> GINSBERG, born in Newark to a teacher-poet father and an activist >> mother with chronic mental illness, attended Columbia University >> in the 1940s, met Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs and set off >> on a long bout of travel and dead-end jobs, from the merchant >> marines to a Madison Avenue ad agency to handling baggage at the >> Greyhound bus terminal in San Francisco. >> >> With publication of "Howl," he burst into four decades of public >> life as a beatnik, hippie and eventually a tenured professor at >> Brooklyn College. A few years before his death, he sold his >> archives to Stanford University for $1 million. And since his >> death? At strait-laced Vroman's in Pasadena and at bohemian >> Skylight Books in Los Feliz, "Howl" sells six copies for every >> five of "Leaves of Grass." At City Lights in San Francisco's North >> Beach ? the bookstore that first published "Howl," a million >> copies ago ? the ratio is more like 50 to 1. >> >> None of this, however, impresses the readers and critics who see >> Ginsberg as the sideshow in the carnival tent of American poetry >> and Whitman as the main event. To write like Ginsberg, James >> Dickey once spat in the New York Times Book Review, one needs only >> memories, frustrations, secret wishes and "an ability to write >> elementary prose and to supply it with rather more exclamation >> points than might normally be called for. It takes more than this >> to make poetry. It just does." >> >> Whitman, dead 113 years, gets more Google hits than Ginsberg. He >> gets more space in the stacks of the Los Angeles Public Library. >> He gets his own chapter on the Cliffs Notes website, and his name >> is found on public schools across the land. This term at UCLA, UC >> Berkeley, USC and Stanford, a collective five professors have >> ordered their students to buy "Leaves of Grass," while three have >> assigned "Howl." (Many literature classes use anthologies that >> include both poets.) >> >> But here's a question, America: Are these poets really so different? >> >> Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" was published in 1855, then again in >> 1856 with a big endorsement from literary lion Ralph Waldo >> Emerson. Ginsberg's "Howl" was first read in public in 1955, >> then published in October 1956 with a big endorsement from >> literary lion William Carlos Williams. >> >> "Leaves of Grass" was banned in Boston, which aided sales all >> over. "Howl" provoked a San Francisco obscenity prosecution, which >> failed in state court, aiding sales all over. >> >> Starting out, Whitman apprenticed as a printer for the Long Island >> Patriot and later edited the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Ginsberg worked >> as a copy boy for the New York World Telegram and later reviewed >> books for Newsweek. >> >> Whitman wrote three anonymous rave reviews of his own work, once >> proclaiming "an American bard at last!" Ginsberg stepped up to >> celebrated poet Stanley Kunitz, handed over "Howl," and said: "I >> want you to read the greatest poem of the century." >> >> Whitman, who suffered from depression, had his brother Jesse >> committed to a lunatic asylum. Ginsberg, who in his 20s spent >> eight months in a psychiatric institute, approved a lobotomy for >> his mother. >> >> Whitman wrote: "I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the >> journeywork of the stars,/ And the pismire is equally perfect, and >> a grain of sand, and the eggs of the wren ?. " >> >> Ginsberg wrote: "Holy the sea holy the desert holy the railroad >> holy the locomotive holy the visions holy the hallucinations holy >> the miracles holy the eyeball holy the abyss!" >> >> Ginsberg, who published his big poem at 29, endured his mother's >> death the same year. Whitman, who published his big poem at 35, >> suffered his father's death the same year. >> >> Whitman engaged deeply in politics and mourned in verse the >> assassination of President Lincoln in 1865. Ginsberg engaged >> deeply in politics and mourned in verse the assassination of >> President Kennedy in 1963. >> >> Horrified by the toll of the Civil War, Whitman visited veterans' >> hospitals in Washington. Horrified by the toll of the Vietnam War, >> Ginsberg sat on a stage amid the tumult outside the Chicago >> Democratic Convention in 1968 and chanted "Om." >> >> Whitman liked to say his song resounded "over the roofs of the >> world." Ginsberg sounded his howl "across the tops of/ cities." >> >> Whitman wrote "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd." Ginsberg >> coined the phrase "flower power." >> >> Also, Ginsberg's secretary of State ?. >> >> Sorry, America. Lost the thread there for a second. >> >> For poet and professor Timothy Steele of Cal State L.A., who has >> spent years crusading to bring back rhyme and meter, Ginsberg >> and Whitman both stand for "anti-intellectualism and unguarded >> celebration of the sensation," which Steele finds "deeply and >> troublingly American." >> >> Both were "poseurs and promoters," yet also somehow "authentic and >> original," writes Jonah Raskin in his 2004 book "American Scream: >> Allen Ginsberg's Howl and the Making of the Beat Generation." >> >> "I don't see them competing with each other. I see them on my >> bookshelf, gleaming with genius, insight and sex," says Lewis >> MacAdams, a Los Angeles author and poet who was friendly with >> Ginsberg. "I think Allen consciously thought of himself in the >> tradition of Whitman, but I don't think he was ever trying to beat >> Whitman, or be Whitman, for that matter." >> >> The parallels go only so far. Whitman made his reputation in an >> era of slow-moving media and did some of his best work near the >> end of his life. Ginsberg hit it big fast and clung to fame >> through force of personality while early boosters scorned many of >> his later poems. >> >> Whitman was nervous enough about being seen as gay that he once >> claimed (with no evidence) to have fathered six children out of >> wedlock. >> >> Ginsberg, on the other hand, wrote an ode to his sphincter. He >> also claimed that one of his lovers, Neal Cassady, had slept with >> the aged Gavin Arthur (grandson of President Chester Arthur), who >> had slept with an English author named Edward Carpenter, who had >> slept with Whitman. Four degrees. >> >> Both poets sneered at academics (though Whitman started as a >> teacher and Ginsberg became one). And both, as Heyday's Margolin >> points out, inspired "reams of rotten poetry" from self-indulgent >> imitators, along with the occasional treasure. Cultural critic >> Greil Marcus has suggested that Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" >> was more influenced by "Howl" than any piece of music. >> >> * >> >> Other voices raise a howl >> >> AMERICA, here's the thing. If you disqualify T.S. Eliot for >> spending most of his life in London, and you disqualify as >> insufficiently serious the guy who wrote "Casey at the Bat," and >> the guy who wrote "I think that I shall never shall see/ A poem >> lovely as a tree," and you exclude Maya Angelou for endorsing her >> own line of Hallmark greeting cards ? well in that case, America, >> your Whitman-Ginsberg debate might really be something larger. You >> may be arguing over which literary outlaw wrote the most >> influential poem in American history. >> >> In the just-published essay collection "The Poem That Changed >> America: 'Howl' 50 Years Later," poet Marge Piercy remembers how a >> Ginsberg reading "reopened the world to me" and inspired her to >> reach beyond her secretarial job and rededicate herself to writing >> personal poetry. >> >> In the same book, poet, essayist, professor and radio commentator >> Andrei Codrescu remembers reading a crudely translated "Howl" in >> 1963 as a teen in Romania and immediately falling into a Whitman- >> Ginsberg debate. >> >> What he dared not say aloud in that debate, Codrescu writes, is >> that "I had become instantly infected by an irresistible appetite >> for freedom, that I wanted to be epically, infamously bad, that I >> wanted to test the limits of my mind and the far reaches of >> liberty, that ? I wanted to become American." By 1967, Codrescu >> was in New York, and he saw "Howl" as "an attitude, a monument, a >> fact of life, beyond good and evil, beyond Ginsberg. It just was." >> >> Ginsberg died in New York nine years ago this month ? on April 5, >> 1997, 70 years old. Some of his ashes went to a Buddhist center in >> Colorado, some to another Buddhist center in Michigan, and some to >> a family cemetery plot in Newark. >> >> Whitman died at 72 and was buried in Camden, N.J., near his >> longtime home. >> >> Which means, America, that to some degree it's pointless to look >> for distinctions between Ginsberg and Whitman anymore. >> >> They're together forever, fertilizing New Jersey. >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 23:05:56 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:05:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but References: Message-ID: <001b01c664f0$82994810$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist butPaul - the reason why I use the "can't make sense" stricture is partly to show its impossibility. One of my followup assignments is to have students look at each other's poems for themes and connections. What you're trying to get them away from is the "didja get it? didja get it?" need to explain everything. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but On 4/20/06 8:43 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hruggier at localnet.com writes: Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. Finnegan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Roethke's idea is not half bad. Only problem is that one of the difficulties beginning writers have is making sense. Maybe if they try deliberately not to, they'll learn other interesting things too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Thu Apr 20 23:06:25 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:06:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire Subdivision References: Message-ID: <002a01c664f0$93d8deb0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Re: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire SubdivisionPaul - you should read the whole book-length poem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire Subdivision Tad, thanks for posting this delicious morsel. I love the double rhymes and satire. On 4/19/06 5:16 PM, "Anny Ballardini" wrote: Thanks god you were a good boy. But do you write them during the night at a candlelight storm full blown & so and such From: TheOldMole Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:38 PM Paul - I have a section on poets and vampires,too, in "Situations." Since it's short and since I've been a relatively good boy and not self-promoted here in a while, I'll post it here. Six hours later, Blanche and Rose, nonplussed, Are at a table in the Garden District. To be specific, Anne Rice has them trussed To chairs. ?I never thought that she'd be this strict,? Rose whispers. Blanche explains, ?It's the result Of a wide range of interests. Some of them Center around her love for the occult, The rest are all tied up with S&M.? ?Let's start the s?ance,? Blanche says. ?Wait?we're not All gathered yet,? says Rice. ?And on that note, I'd like to introduce my friend Lestat? He's taken quite a liking to your throat.? The spectral figure clears his throat: ?Forgive My late arrival?I've been in the lab since Just after tea?these days, it's where I live.? Rose thinks that in a field, he'd be the absence Of field; what's more, she notices that when He walks, he parts the air, and that it moves To fill the spaces where his body's been. ?M. Lestat,? Rose interjects, ?this proves You're something not quite human. Something morbid, Macabre, or even worse?perhaps a poet.? ?A poet? Me? Fat chance! Heaven forbid!? ?But you looked so much like?never mind. Although it Still puzzles me. Why do you move?? ?To keep Things whole. Nonetheless, I'm no versifier. I'm the undead. I live by night. I sleep By day.? ?Right?you're a poet.? ?I'm a vampire, Dammit! And I can prove it!? Lestat whirls. With feral tread and eyes fixed like a predator, Lestat advances slowly toward the girls, Stops before Blanche's chair, lowers his head at her. It strikes Rose that unless she finds a recourse To Anne Rice and Lestat, there's every chance her Future is as dessert to Blanche's main course. Her only hope is Bob, the necromancer. Send me deliverance from this pursuer! A figure enters?not Bob?crimson cloaked, With lacquered hair and tapered manicure; He gestures at Lestat, who whispers, choked With terror, ?You?? ?Yes, me. Bob couldn't make it. He's occupied with knowledge to impart To Carlene's friends. I brought this stake?it should make the perfect lagniappe for your heart.? Lestat departs in haste. Anne Rice steps forward, Faces the stranger with a heaving bosom. She says, ?Monsieur, I am the one you've ordered, It's I alone can help you bridge the chasm Between the damned and the sublime. I know Secrets of knots and chains, how to insert Body parts where none would guess they'd go, Intricate pas de deux of bliss and hurt.? ?It's tempting,? says the stranger. ?But temptation Was my gift to mankind. I tend to doubt That even someone of your reputation Could dream up deviance I've not tried out.? Rose speaks: ?If I can show you a delight You've never tasted, Monsieur, in return Will you grant me one favor?" "Yes, I might? You understand that if you fail, you'll burn Eternally?" Rose says, "I'll take that gamble. Not like that Rice tart, with her whips and fetters; I'm thinking more of Mrs. Patrick Campbell And G. B. Shaw.? The Devil snickers, ?Letters? Perhaps you planned on boring me to death?? A new approach? one without much attraction.? Rose thinks of what blue-veined Elizabeth Taught her about the art of satisfaction. Chaste stimulation leaves the Devil sated. Now he's in Rose's thrall. Bereft, Anne Rice's Bosom heaves its last, and lies deflated, As flaccid as her prose, or as her vices. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 21 07:00:43 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:00:43 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] IKON Message-ID: <001101c66532$d7758050$98a83252@ANNY> IKON It is in art the highest business to create the beautiful image : to create order and profusion of images that we may furnish the life of our minds with a noble surrounding. And if-as some say, the soul survives the body ; if our consciousness is not an intermittent melody of strings that relapse between whiles into silence, then more than ever should we put forth the images of beauty, that going out into tenantless spaces we have with us all that is needful-an abundance of sounds and patterns to entertain us in that long dreaming ; to strew our path to Valhalla ; to give rich gifts by the way. Ezra Pound [The Cerebralist, 1913] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Fri Apr 21 08:24:51 2006 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:24:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but References: <309.388c181.3178ea09@aol.com><004a01c664aa$843dd320$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress><004301c664b1$2b8bd090$65a83852@ANNY> <009901c664b7$84af94d0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <002101c6653e$97507cd0$6600a8c0@Helen> Sounds something like I give for a final. ----- Original Message ----- From: TheOldMole To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but I'm kinda mean. But they do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anny Ballardini To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but This their first assignment? And they come back a second time, you must be very charismatic. From: TheOldMole Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:44 PM I do a similar assignment -- it's actually my usual first assignment to a beginning poetry workshop. Trying to get them to think about process, rather than feelings. Write a poem that obeys the following rules: 3 stanzas, each 5 lines long. Each line must contain 8-12 syllables. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three enjambments in each stanza. There must be no fewer than one nor more than three strong caesuras (period or semicolon break) in each stanza. Each stanza must have a different dominant vowel sound. You'll probably want to use assonance rather than rhyme to create this effect. I won't give a count for how many times you should use that dominant vowel in the stanza, but your goal should be that the reader feels the effect of the dominant vowel, but is not bludgeoned by it. The poem can't mean anything. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hruggier at localnet.com writes: Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad at it and the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. Finnegan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MillB at aol.com Fri Apr 21 09:27:36 2006 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:27:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry 2005/Gail Mazur Message-ID: <2a9.31cf294.317a37c8@aol.com> David, I had not read Gail Mazur either, until the editor of the arts newspaper in Southern California (where I am an occasional contributor) mentioned that his mother was giving a reading at Dutton's. I bought her book and have been enjoying it ever since. Mill I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Frank Lloyd Wright -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Apr 21 09:55:50 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:55:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYRP: Tomatic stimulation & other matters Message-ID: <8675A04F-640D-4284-9B20-2DAF94553942@earthlink.net> http://pauillac.inria.fr/~xleroy/stuff/tomato/tomato.html "Death to careles slavenly writting!" Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 21 10:05:25 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:05:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology SOLITUDE, tribute to the interior life. Message-ID: <374.2c15830.317a40a5@aol.com> The poems in the Everyman Library's Pocket Poet anthology SOLITUDE form a tribute to the interior life. Today's episode of the Knopf Poetry podcast features another poet of solitude. Mark Strand chose to read "Man and Camel," the title poem from his new collection which will be in stores this September. THE WAKING I strolled across An open field; The sun was out; Heat was happy. This way! This way! The wren's throat shimmered, Either to other, The blossoms sang. The stones sang, The little ones did, And flowers jumped Like small goats. A ragged fringe Of daisies waved; I wasn't alone In a grove of apples. Far in the wood A nestling sighed; The dew loosened Its morning smells. I came where the river Ran over stones: My ears knew An early joy. And all the waters Of all the streams Sang in my veins That summer day. TODAY'S PODCAST: Listen to a recording of _Mark Strand reading "Man and Camel"_ (http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jnxx0DXKYc0Wa0mbB0Ev) KEEP CLICKING: _About Solitude Poems_ (http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jnxx0DXKYc0Wa0mbE0Ey) _View the complete Everyman's Library Pocket Poets collection _ (http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/poetry/pocketpoets.html) _Discuss today's selection in the Knopf Poetry Forum_ (http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jnxx0DXKYc0Wa0dyo0Eu) (http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jnxx0DXKYc0Wa0mbE0Ey) (http://info.randomhouse.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/jnxx0DXKYc0Wa0mbF0Ez) >From SOLITUDE POEMS edited by Carmela Ciuraru, ? Everyman's Library, 2005. "The Waking" ? 1953 by Theodore Roethke, from COLLECTED POEMS by Theodore Roethke. Used by permission of Doubleday, a division of Random House, Inc. Recording of "Man and Camel" ? Mark Strand, . Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of these excerpts may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to _knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com_ (mailto:knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com) You received this issue because your email address is in Knopf's Poem-a-Day mailing list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to _unsub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com_ (mailto:unsub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com) . Or if you received this poem as a forward and wish to subscribe, send a blank email to _sub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com_ (mailto:sub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com) . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 21 10:25:57 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:25:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 21-30 April 2006 Message-ID: <3cf.be88c8.317a4575@aol.com> Radio National Books and Drama Newsletter 21 - 30 April 2006 ========================================================= *POETICA* 22/4/2006 15:00 27/4/2006 21:00 (repeat) Genii Loci ? the poetry of John Anderson *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/poetica/stories/s1593373.htm John Anderson was a poet intensely tuned to the subtleties of Australian natural forms: trees, rocks, creeks, birds and other animals. Like a painter, he had a sensitive appreciation of colour and was always seeing correspondences of forms. *LINGUA FRANCA* 22/4/2006 15:45 27/4/2006 21:45 How the Bible became a Book *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s1620296.htm The role of writing in establishing the authority of the Hebrew Bible: Semitic linguist Shelly Harrison on William M. Schniedewind's book, /How the Bible became a Book: The Textualisation of Ancient Israel/. What does it contribute to scholarly debate over when the Hebrew Bible was first set down in writing? * *SHORT STORY * * 23/4/2006 Class of ?73 (8.30) *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/sstory/stories/s1594539.htm Taken from ?The Best Australian Stories 2004?, edited by Frank Moorhouse. Published by Black Inc. Novelist and poet, Kathryn Lomer was born in Tasmania in 1958 and now lives in Hobart. AND Without (15.35) *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/sstory/stories/s1594544.htm Julia Osborne was born in Sydney but lived for many years in various parts of rural NSW. Her stories of the bush have appeared in Meanjin, Island, Northern Perspective, Scarp, Antipodes (USA), and Panurge (UK). In 2002, her first novel Falling Glass was published. * *AIRPLAY * * 23/4/2006 15:00 28/4/2006 21:00 Hospital Gymnasium - A Poetic Sequence *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/airplay/s1593353.htm To commemorate Anzac Day a touching and poetic play about the power of memory and the optimism of youth. **THE BOOK SHOW* **URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/ * *23/4/2006 19:10 Donna Daley-Clarke - Lazy Eye & Richard Hawke - Speak of the Devil **FIRST PERSON * (Heard as part of The Book Show) URL: *http://www.abc.net.au/rn/firstperson/stories/2006/1564837.htm* * 24/4/2006 10:45am Well Done Those Men by Barry Heard http://www.abc.net.au/rn/firstperson/stories/2006/1564837.htm In an intensely personal account, Barry Heard explains how as a conscript he was one of the many young men sent off to Vietnam for a year completely unprepared for the emotional and psychological impact of what they would do and what they would have done to them there. (Concludes 5th May) **THE BOOK READING * *26/04/2006 14:00 26/04/2006 23:00(Repeat) The Wing of Night by Brenda Walker *URL: *http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/bkreadg/stories/s1594601.htm In 1915 a troopship of Light Horsemen sails from Fremantle for the Great War. Two women farewell their men: Elizabeth, with her background of careless wealth, and Bonnie, who is marked by the anxieties of poverty. Neither can predict how the effects of the most brutal fighting at Gallipoli will devastate their lives in the long aftermath of the war. (Concludes 8th May) =================================================================== To sign off this mail list or for further information go to: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/maillist/ If you have comments or suggestions email us at: radart1 at your.abc.net.au Radio National is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's specialist journalism and arts network, broadcasting across Australia. Radio National homepage: http://abc.net/rn Tune in: http://abc.net.au/rn/freq/map.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Apr 21 03:52:07 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:52:07 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but In-Reply-To: <001b01c664f0$82994810$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 4/20/06 10:05 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > Paul - the reason why I use the "can't make sense" stricture is partly to show > its impossibility. One of my followup assignments is to have students look at > each other's poems for themes and connections. What you're trying to get them > away from is the "didja get it? didja get it?" need to explain everything. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Lake >> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] not to be a prosodist but >> >> On 4/20/06 8:43 AM, "JforJames at aol.com" wrote: >> >>> In a message dated 4/19/2006 6:02:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>> hruggier at localnet.com writes: >>>> Me too - I find that the beginners want to rhyme but they are really bad >>>> at it and >>>> the poem loses everything to the rhyme scheme (I use scheme loosely here). >>> I recall that Roethke used to teach the form, then assign >>> the form, like a sonnet. But the his one rule for the poem >>> they turned in was that the poem shouldn't make any sense. >>> Perhaps having the luxury of 'nonsense' made the rhymes >>> and meter fall out a little better for his verse novitiates. >>> >>> Finnegan >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >>> >> >> Roethke?s idea is not half bad. Only problem is that one of the difficulties >> beginning writers have is making sense. Maybe if they try deliberately not >> to, they?ll learn other interesting things too. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > You?re right. Student writers do tend to over-explain. They also have to learn about understatement, which is a hard lesson for a young poet to learn. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Apr 21 03:53:05 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:53:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Po Biz - Vampire Subdivision In-Reply-To: <002a01c664f0$93d8deb0$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: On 4/20/06 10:06 PM, "TheOldMole" wrote: > Paul - you should read the whole book-length poem. > Where can I get the book-length version? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Fri Apr 21 11:23:05 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:23:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not Oprah, but . . . Message-ID: <648208b60604210823u28ffd93cpa66113e2c604f52@mail.gmail.com> Small Press Review has chosen to cite Temporary Meaning, my latest book, as one of its "Picks" in the March-April issue. -- Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Apr 21 11:26:05 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:26:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not Oprah, but . . . In-Reply-To: <648208b60604210823u28ffd93cpa66113e2c604f52@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60604210823u28ffd93cpa66113e2c604f52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Speaking of whom, did anyone catch the South Park episode the other night having to do with Oprah and her talking minge? Hal "Way down the deserted street, I thought I saw a bus which, with luck, might get me out of this sentence . . ." --Rosmarie Waldrop Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 21, 2006, at 11:23 AM, James Cervantes wrote: > Small Press Review has chosen to cite Temporary Meaning, my latest > book, as one of its "Picks" in the March-April issue. > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Apr 21 12:37:14 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:37:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Not Oprah, but . . . Message-ID: <27b.880575e.317a643a@cs.com> In a message dated 4/21/2006 10:24:58 AM Central Standard Time, cervantes.james at gmail.com writes: > > > > > Small Press Review has chosen to cite Temporary Meaning, my latest > book, as one of its "Picks" in the March-April issue. > WTG, Jim! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Apr 21 05:47:22 2006 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 04:47:22 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not Oprah, but . . . In-Reply-To: <648208b60604210823u28ffd93cpa66113e2c604f52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/21/06 10:23 AM, "James Cervantes" wrote: > Small Press Review has chosen to cite Temporary Meaning, my latest > book, as one of its "Picks" in the March-April issue. > > -- Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/ > http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Congrats, Jim. Hope it sells some books. From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Apr 21 14:04:03 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:04:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Red Wheel Boogie Message-ID: <6DA74216-089F-40A5-AC2D-3A09602D3F1F@ripon.edu> Cleaning out some old folders, I happened upon this little parody of mine from who knows how many years ago. Hope I haven't already posted it here. Red Wheel Boogie and Dog Star Night ---by William Carlos Williams, as told to Charles Wright Backyard twilight, and oooze of sun like a tissue of eternity, daub and counter-daub, wheel upon wheel in the circle of night. We will never know how much depends upon this chicken, this ritalin whirlwind glazing rusty sides of our little bunged-up barrow, clouds and feathers, feathers and clouds. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Apr 21 15:24:23 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:24:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Red Wheel Boogie Message-ID: <20060421192423.EB02813D00@smapp04.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Fri Apr 21 15:53:43 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:53:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Literary Parody Message-ID: <731bb17a0604211253y1ad61596r2b8b16290d6c1cf@mail.gmail.com> Not a poetry parody, but I'm posting this in honor of David Graham's spot-on parody. On a side-note, there's a pretty good (if memory serves) Kerouac parody that Updike (I think) wrote called "On the Sidewalk" (again, if memory serves). Anyone familiar with that one? Well, anyway, here is one of my favorites: Catch Her in the Oatmeal If you actually want to hear about it, what I'd better do is I'd better warn you right now that you aren't going to believe it. I mean it's a true story and all, but it still sounds sort of phony. Anyway, my name is Goldie Lox. It's sort of a boring name, but my parents said that when I was born I had this very blonde hair and all. Actually I was born bald. I mean how many babies get born with blonde hair? None. I mean I've seen them and they're all wrinkled and red and slimy and everything. And bald. And then all the phonies have to come around and tell you he's as cute as a bug's ear. A bug's ear, boy, that really kills me. You ever seen a bug's ear? What's cute about a bug's ear? For Chrissake! Nothing, that's what. So, like I was saying, I always seem to be getting into these very stupid situations. Like this time I was telling you about. Anyway, I was walking through the forest and all when I see this very interesting house. A house. You wouldn't think anybody would be living way the hell out in the goddam forest, but they were. No one was home or anything and the door was open, so I walked in. I figured what I'd do is I'd probably horse around until the guys that lived there came home and maybe asked me to stay for dinner or something. Some people think they have to ask you to stay for dinner even if they hate you. Also I didn't exactly feel like going home and getting asked a lot of lousy questions. I mean that's all I ever seem to do. Anyway, while I was waiting I sort of sampled some of this stuff they had on the table that tasted like oatmeal. Oatmeal. It would have made you puke, I mean it. Then something very spooky started happening. I started getting dizzier than hell. I figured I'd feel better if I could just rest for a while. Sometimes if you eat something like lousy oatmeal you can feel better if you just rest for awhile, so I sat down. That's when the goddam chair breaks in half. No kidding, you start feeling lousy and some stupid chair is going to break on you every time. I'm not kidding. Anyway I finally found the crummy bedroom and I lay down on this very tiny bed. I was really depressed. I don't know how long I was asleep or anything but all of a sudden I hear this very strange voice say, "Someone's been sleeping in my sack, for Chrissake, and there she is!" So I open my eyes and here at the foot of the bed are these three crummy bears. Bears! I swear to God. By that time I was really feeling depressed. There's nothing more depressing than waking up and finding three bears talking to you, I mean. So I didn't stay around and shoot the breeze with them or anything. If you want to know the truth, I sort of ran out of there like a madman or something. I do that quite a little when I'm depressed like that. On the way home, though, I got to figuring. What probably happened is these bears wandered in when they smelled this oatmeal and all. Probably bears like oatmeal, I don't know. and the voice I heard when I woke up was probably something I dreamt. So that's the story. I wrote it all up once as a theme in school, but my crummy teacher said it was too whimsical. Whimsical. That killed me. You got to meet her sometime, boy. She's a real queen. Dan Greenberg, "Three Bears in Search of an Author," Esquire, Feb 1958, pp. 46-47. Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 21 16:40:32 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:40:32 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] after a translation Message-ID: <00b301c66583$d5f34950$20d93052@ANNY> As a final ex-user As a final ex-user-(satiated) of a survival's product-(meat) _ never directly from the producer-(cow) there was hay-(seed) alfalfa through pitchforks of bailers highly versatile mixers with augers*_ rotating shafts precise & aggressive long-life blades stabilizing biomasses compost made built-in 3D CAD/CAM from the extremely efficient manager's desk to the feeder through the screen for the best total mix ration through conveyor belts WELLBEING fitness for the producer-(cow) (vitamins antibiotics manganese No aerobic spoilage No grain losses in faeces Yes for dry matter intake Yes for quality meat and milk) I chow on bread that follows more or less the same wired up thread * (Archimedean screw) Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 21 16:51:10 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:51:10 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Red Wheel Boogie References: <20060421192423.EB02813D00@smapp04.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c66585$54c2dbf0$20d93052@ANNY> Excellent from me as well definitely, should we also have your Robert Frost as retold by Corso since we also had Greenberg's three little bears and my remade translation, From: opus40-01 at opus40.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:24 PM You haven't, and it's wonderful. I love it. I'm on my way to participate in a tribute to the late beat poet Ted Joans, where I'll be reading my Robert Frost as retold by Gregory Corso poem. On Fri Apr 21 14:04 , David Graham sent: Cleaning out some old folders, I happened upon this little parody of mine from who knows how many years ago. Hope I haven't already posted it here. Red Wheel Boogie and Dog Star Night ---by William Carlos Williams, as told to Charles Wright Backyard twilight, and oooze of sun like a tissue of eternity, daub and counter-daub, wheel upon wheel in the circle of night. We will never know how much depends upon this chicken, this ritalin whirlwind glazing rusty sides of our little bunged-up barrow, clouds and feathers, feathers and clouds. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Fri Apr 21 17:32:38 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:32:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint Message-ID: <3ce.cea5da.317aa976@aol.com> The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees oneself of the chains that shackle the spirit...the arbitrariness of the constraint only serves to obtain precision of execution. --Igor Stravinsky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Apr 21 18:49:07 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:49:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint In-Reply-To: <3ce.cea5da.317aa976@aol.com> References: <3ce.cea5da.317aa976@aol.com> Message-ID: <8DC00DBF-D5BE-4C0A-86FF-81E86D51E18C@earthlink.net> And Stravinsky was quite right. One of my major constraints lies in forbidding myself rhyme and meter. "Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck." --George Carlin Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 21, 2006, at 5:32 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees oneself > of the chains that shackle the spirit...the arbitrariness of the > constraint > only serves to obtain precision of execution. > --Igor Stravinsky > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mac.com Fri Apr 21 21:36:01 2006 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:36:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Not Oprah, but . . . In-Reply-To: <648208b60604210823u28ffd93cpa66113e2c604f52@mail.gmail.com> References: <648208b60604210823u28ffd93cpa66113e2c604f52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2AB12312-1CDC-4073-A6C5-E39EB29F12C8@mac.com> On Apr 21, 2006, at 11:23 , James Cervantes wrote: > Small Press Review has chosen to cite Temporary Meaning, my latest > book, as one of its "Picks" in the March-April issue. > > -- Jim > > H Hooray! From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Apr 21 23:11:35 2006 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:11:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 21-30 April 2006 Message-ID: <200604220244.k3M2iHSb032896@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> oh i got my hopes up for a second, but it's a as in aussie not as in american... ---------- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] ABC Radio National Books and Drama newsletter, 21-30 April 2006 Date: Fri, Apr 21, 2006, 7:25 AM Radio National Books and Drama Newsletter 21 - 30 April 2006 ========================================================= *POETICA* 22/4/2006 15:00 27/4/2006 21:00 (repeat) Genii Loci ??? the poetry of John Anderson *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/poetica/stories/s1593373.htm John Anderson was a poet intensely tuned to the subtleties of Australian natural forms: trees, rocks, creeks, birds and other animals. Like a painter, he had a sensitive appreciation of colour and was always seeing correspondences of forms. *LINGUA FRANCA* 22/4/2006 15:45 27/4/2006 21:45 How the Bible became a Book *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s1620296.htm The role of writing in establishing the authority of the Hebrew Bible: Semitic linguist Shelly Harrison on William M. Schniedewind's book, /How the Bible became a Book: The Textualisation of Ancient Israel/. What does it contribute to scholarly debate over when the Hebrew Bible was first set down in writing? * *SHORT STORY * * 23/4/2006 Class of ???73 (8.30) *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/sstory/stories/s1594539.htm Taken from ???The Best Australian Stories 2004???, edited by Frank Moorhouse. Published by Black Inc. Novelist and poet, Kathryn Lomer was born in Tasmania in 1958 and now lives in Hobart. AND Without (15.35) *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/sstory/stories/s1594544.htm Julia Osborne was born in Sydney but lived for many years in various parts of rural NSW. Her stories of the bush have appeared in Meanjin, Island, Northern Perspective, Scarp, Antipodes (USA), and Panurge (UK). In 2002, her first novel Falling Glass was published. * *AIRPLAY * * 23/4/2006 15:00 28/4/2006 21:00 Hospital Gymnasium - A Poetic Sequence *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/airplay/s1593353.htm To commemorate Anzac Day a touching and poetic play about the power of memory and the optimism of youth. **THE BOOK SHOW* **URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/ * *23/4/2006 19:10 Donna Daley-Clarke - Lazy Eye & Richard Hawke - Speak of the Devil **FIRST PERSON * (Heard as part of The Book Show) URL: *http://www.abc.net.au/rn/firstperson/stories/2006/1564837.htm* * 24/4/2006 10:45am Well Done Those Men by Barry Heard http://www.abc.net.au/rn/firstperson/stories/2006/1564837.htm In an intensely personal account, Barry Heard explains how as a conscript he was one of the many young men sent off to Vietnam for a year completely unprepared for the emotional and psychological impact of what they would do and what they would have done to them there. (Concludes 5th May) **THE BOOK READING * *26/04/2006 14:00 26/04/2006 23:00(Repeat) The Wing of Night by Brenda Walker *URL: *http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/bkreadg/stories/s1594601.htm In 1915 a troopship of Light Horsemen sails from Fremantle for the Great War. Two women farewell their men: Elizabeth, with her background of careless wealth, and Bonnie, who is marked by the anxieties of poverty. Neither can predict how the effects of the most brutal fighting at Gallipoli will devastate their lives in the long aftermath of the war. (Concludes 8th May) =================================================================== To sign off this mail list or for further information go to: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/maillist/ If you have comments or suggestions email us at: radart1 at your.abc.net.au Radio National is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's specialist journalism and arts network, broadcasting across Australia. Radio National homepage: http://abc.net/rn Tune in: http://abc.net.au/rn/freq/map.htm _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 23 11:01:31 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:01:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Sonnet: They Call the Wind Sudoku" Message-ID: <9DCA219B-4290-4621-AA64-FFF48567A0AB@earthlink.net> Sonnet: They Call the Wind Sudoku The peace server is down for maintenance. I?ll not even comment on aesthetic realism?s right to be known. Most parents say that if they had it all to do over again they wouldn?t even bother. It?s all connected. Take my word for it. Blame the patriarchy if you must, but pass the ammunition. We share the stage with elderly Australian bocce players on steroids. ?Haydnesque? is the only word I?d choose if I had to describe it. Having found your name in the directory of the African diaspora, I cling to it as though my very life depended on doing so. (I?d like to take a moment here to thank my many micropatrons for all the nickels they?ve sent.) One small voice is all it takes to affect the economics of popcorn pricing. Once ruthlessly ambitious, but now . . . Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 15:58:00 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:58:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint Message-ID: <327.2f2a712.317d3648@aol.com> In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:49:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: And Stravinsky was quite right. One of my major constraints lies in forbidding myself rhyme and meter. Hal, but how scrupulous are you in your avoidance of them? Does your practice involve evading even internal rimes and accidental measures? That could be an anti-verse form...more adverse to verse, so to speak, than free verse. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 16:02:53 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:02:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint Message-ID: <32a.2f3141f.317d376d@aol.com> In a message dated 4/23/2006 3:58:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: adverse to that should be 'averse'...before I make any English majors hereabouts cringe. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 16:05:25 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:05:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage Message-ID: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we were without listservice most of the weekend. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 16:07:40 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:07:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] about Anagnostakis Message-ID: <3a6.1751a74.317d388c@aol.com> _http://www.greeknewsonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4812_ (http://www.greeknewsonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4812) Ten Scholars Talk about Gringlish and Anagnostakis at Columbia University Posted on Sunday, April 23 @ 14:02:49 EDT by greek_news New York.- By Vicki J. Yiannias The three pillars of Anagnostakis?s work are politics as public engagement and solidarity, reading as a process of discovery and foundation of writing, and their various interconnections in the context of Thessaloniki, said poet Yiorgos Chouliaras, Director of the Press and Communication Office of the Consulate General of Greece in Boston. "If, borrowing a page from the Greek War of Independence, we speak of ?three parties? in modern Greek poetry -- an initially preponderant "French" -- with Elytis and the surrealists, a "Russian" -- with Varnalis and Ritsos, and an eventually dominant Anglo-American one -- with Seferis, Anagnostakis as a "politically erotic" poet imploded these divisions and helped delineate alternative traditions for those following the ? generation of the thirties." The Issue is What You Say Now. Lives of the Poets: The Anagnostakis Case was the title of his talk. . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 23 16:11:08 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:11:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Susan Schultz Message-ID: <005901c66712$0f7b02f0$838d3052@ANNY> I'm pleased to announce a collaborative issue of Tinfish with trout, an on-line journal out of Honolulu and New Zealand, edited by Robert Sullivan, Anne Kennedy, Tony Murrow, and Brian Flaherty (www.trout.auckland.ac.nz). Both journals specialize in Pacific poetries; some of the authors have appeared in both publications, but most are new to one or the other. This issue features work by Hinemoana Baker, Cherie Barford, Linh Dinh, Murray Edmond, Kari Edwards, David Eggleton, Glenn Mott, Eileen Myles, Kit Robinson, Hazel Smith, Juliana Spahr, Richard von Sturmer, and Mark Wallace, as well a review of John Kinsella by John Rieder. And much more! Wonderful translations from the Chinese of Huang CanRan, Shang Qin and others. Each cover of the Tinfish paper version is unique, a slipcover map. Centerfold by Thomas Wasson, designer of our roofing paper cover issue. Yours for $8 or subscription to three issues of Tinfish: Tinfish Press, 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9, Kaneohe, HI 96744. Also call it up for free on the trout site--the versions are not exactly the same, so you'll need both! aloha, Susan Susan M. Schultz Professor Department of English University of Hawai`i-Manoa Honolulu, HI 96822 http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=stl Go Cards!!! now available: _A Poetics of Impasse in Modern and Contemporary American Poetry_, University of Alabama Press http://www.uapress.ua.edu/NewSearch2.cfm?id=132788 http://tinfishpress.com http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/schultz/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clitophon at yahoo.com Sun Apr 23 16:12:24 2006 From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] die Traumdeutung In-Reply-To: <9DCA219B-4290-4621-AA64-FFF48567A0AB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060423201224.46786.qmail@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> interesting to see that the UK government still isnt prepared to pardon some deserters from WW1. In the light of what we now know about shell shock, this SEEMS incredible. But when you realise that the people who rule us are either some 17th century Quakers or a load of hillbillies, well this decision of theirs can be seen as totally unsurprising. I also thought it strange, that when I made a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights in Strassbourg about the torture and inhuman degradation I suffered as a mental patient in the UK, that instead of the matter being dealt with in a professional way, that I was merely threatened by a German policewoman in Freiburg im Breisgau, Germany. Even David Irving, the Holocaust denier, has rights in terms of the European Court and its protocols. Because he spent his life denying the Holocaust and was finally gaoled, he still had the money (money he made from the suffering of millions of opfers) to afford an expensive lawyer to represent him at Strassbourg. That?s something I didn?t have. Instead I was totally at the mercy of the Judges and the Nazi cops who take their orders and make threats etc etc. In Freiburg I was thrown out of my job and accommodation for having an Irish accent. I made a statement to the Judges about neo-Nazis in the police in Belfast and was threatened. I was then thrown out of subsequent accommodation for painting. Professor Gert Fehlner of the University?s English department recently wrote to me to call me a ?nutter?and added that I wouldnt be allowed into Freiburg ever again. (???) I urge any right thinking person, any loyal citizen to grab gelignite, a machine gun, pistol or knife and make an attack now on a cop or on Prof Fehlner or even on Robin Hamilton, another asshole and child rapist, who lurks on this list in the guise of ?poet?. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 23 16:17:24 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:17:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint In-Reply-To: <327.2f2a712.317d3648@aol.com> References: <327.2f2a712.317d3648@aol.com> Message-ID: <890C6B62-9EBD-4AA7-B1FE-F83B95D08DF4@earthlink.net> Well, I don't go on search-and-destroy missions, if that's what you mean. "All naming is already murder." --Jacques Lacan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 23, 2006, at 3:58 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:49:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, > halvard at earthlink.net writes: > And Stravinsky was quite right. One of my major constraints > lies in forbidding myself rhyme and meter. > Hal, but how scrupulous are you in your avoidance of them? > Does your practice involve evading even internal rimes and > accidental measures? That could be an anti-verse form...more > adverse to verse, so to speak, than free verse. > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Apr 23 16:19:02 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:19:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage In-Reply-To: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> References: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> Message-ID: Hmm, I just thought we were all back on our meds. Hal "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." --Tom Lehrer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we > were without listservice most of the weekend. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Apr 23 16:20:24 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:20:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Violence Message-ID: <6EDB799F-5F65-473C-BE4C-F56FCC719C99@ripon.edu> Violence After I'd read my poem about a brawl between two sidewalk hustlers--one, insulted, throws the other down and nearly kills him--over coffee and cookies a grave senior citizen reproved me: How could you see such violence and you didn't try to stop them?--Oh, I explained, it wasn't like that, really--I saw two guys in a shoving match and thought I'd write about aggression, what anger really feels like. . . . Yes, and if the one got killed it would be on your head. You should've stopped them, he said. --Daniel Hoffman. Beyond Silence: Selected Shorter Poems, 1948-2003. LSU Press, 2003. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 23 16:37:41 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:37:41 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Anderson Message-ID: <00a301c66715$c4b66620$838d3052@ANNY> I also sent this a couple of days ago (when I was still young). very moving : *POETICA* 22/4/2006 15:00 27/4/2006 21:00 (repeat) Genii Loci - the poetry of John Anderson *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/poetica/stories/s1593373.htm John Anderson was a poet intensely tuned to the subtleties of Australian natural forms: trees, rocks, creeks, birds and other animals. Like a painter, he had a sensitive appreciation of colour and was always seeing correspondences of forms. From: JforJames at aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 4:25 PM Radio National Books and Drama Newsletter 21 - 30 April 2006 ========================================================= *POETICA* 22/4/2006 15:00 27/4/2006 21:00 (repeat) Genii Loci - the poetry of John Anderson *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/poetica/stories/s1593373.htm John Anderson was a poet intensely tuned to the subtleties of Australian natural forms: trees, rocks, creeks, birds and other animals. Like a painter, he had a sensitive appreciation of colour and was always seeing correspondences of forms. *LINGUA FRANCA* 22/4/2006 15:45 27/4/2006 21:45 How the Bible became a Book *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s1620296.htm The role of writing in establishing the authority of the Hebrew Bible: Semitic linguist Shelly Harrison on William M. Schniedewind's book, /How the Bible became a Book: The Textualisation of Ancient Israel/. What does it contribute to scholarly debate over when the Hebrew Bible was first set down in writing? * *SHORT STORY * * 23/4/2006 Class of '73 (8.30) *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/sstory/stories/s1594539.htm Taken from 'The Best Australian Stories 2004', edited by Frank Moorhouse. Published by Black Inc. Novelist and poet, Kathryn Lomer was born in Tasmania in 1958 and now lives in Hobart. AND Without (15.35) *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/sstory/stories/s1594544.htm Julia Osborne was born in Sydney but lived for many years in various parts of rural NSW. Her stories of the bush have appeared in Meanjin, Island, Northern Perspective, Scarp, Antipodes (USA), and Panurge (UK). In 2002, her first novel Falling Glass was published. * *AIRPLAY * * 23/4/2006 15:00 28/4/2006 21:00 Hospital Gymnasium - A Poetic Sequence *URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/airplay/s1593353.htm To commemorate Anzac Day a touching and poetic play about the power of memory and the optimism of youth. **THE BOOK SHOW* **URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/ * *23/4/2006 19:10 Donna Daley-Clarke - Lazy Eye & Richard Hawke - Speak of the Devil **FIRST PERSON * (Heard as part of The Book Show) URL: *http://www.abc.net.au/rn/firstperson/stories/2006/1564837.htm* * 24/4/2006 10:45am Well Done Those Men by Barry Heard http://www.abc.net.au/rn/firstperson/stories/2006/1564837.htm In an intensely personal account, Barry Heard explains how as a conscript he was one of the many young men sent off to Vietnam for a year completely unprepared for the emotional and psychological impact of what they would do and what they would have done to them there. (Concludes 5th May) **THE BOOK READING * *26/04/2006 14:00 26/04/2006 23:00(Repeat) The Wing of Night by Brenda Walker *URL: *http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/bkreadg/stories/s1594601.htm In 1915 a troopship of Light Horsemen sails from Fremantle for the Great War. Two women farewell their men: Elizabeth, with her background of careless wealth, and Bonnie, who is marked by the anxieties of poverty. Neither can predict how the effects of the most brutal fighting at Gallipoli will devastate their lives in the long aftermath of the war. (Concludes 8th May) Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 23 17:17:39 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:17:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint References: <327.2f2a712.317d3648@aol.com> <890C6B62-9EBD-4AA7-B1FE-F83B95D08DF4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <006101c6671b$5a62cc40$a9b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> "All naming is already murder." --Jacques Lacan Halvard Johnson Did Jacques ever say why he named "naming" "murder?" --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Apr 23 17:17:45 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:17:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage In-Reply-To: References: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> Message-ID: <731bb17a0604231417k573dab08ie72aec9759f5dc4@mail.gmail.com> I figured something was up, as no mail was coming in. Jeff On 4/23/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > Hmm, I just thought we were all back on our meds. > > > Hal > > "Political satire became obsolete when Henry > Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." > --Tom Lehrer > > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we > were without listservice most of the weekend. > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Apr 23 17:23:42 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:23:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:constraint In-Reply-To: <006101c6671b$5a62cc40$a9b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <327.2f2a712.317d3648@aol.com> <890C6B62-9EBD-4AA7-B1FE-F83B95D08DF4@earthlink.net> <006101c6671b$5a62cc40$a9b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: Sounds like a re-run of an old favorite, actually: Wordsworth's "we murder to dissect." In JF Nims's *Western Wind* poetry textbook he prints a diagram of a songbird, with all parts labelled. Then he notes that no flesh-and-blood bird was, in fact, harmed by the diagram. On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > "All naming is already murder." > --Jacques Lacan > > Halvard Johnson > > Did Jacques ever say why he named "naming" "murder?" > > --Bob G. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 17:23:26 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:23:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy arthouse release? Message-ID: <2e7.589503d.317d4a4e@aol.com> http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060420-073807-4534r Milton's 'Paradise Lost' goes to Hollywood LOS ANGELES, April 20 (UPI) -- John Milton's epic biblical poem, "Paradise Lost," is being turned into a live-action Hollywood film. Scott Derrickson, who studied theology in college, will direct the adaptation of Milton's 1667 tale of Lucifer's failed rebellion in heaven and his role in the disgrace of Adam and Eve, Daily Variety reported Thursday. Derrickson, who directed and co-wrote "The Exorcism of Emily Rose," is also participating the writing process, Variety said. Legendary Pictures Chief Thomas Tull said there is no timetable for the project. "Given the gravity of the source material, it's really important to get it right," he said. "It will be ready when it's ready." ? Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Apr 23 17:26:44 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:26:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage References: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> Message-ID: <009901c6671c$9f530080$a9b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Strange--I was away for the weekend for the first time in a while! Do you think there's a connection? --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 4:05 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we were without listservice most of the weekend. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 23 17:33:05 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:33:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage References: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> <731bb17a0604231417k573dab08ie72aec9759f5dc4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d401c6671d$81ea3440$838d3052@ANNY> I thought they were all out since Jeff figured something was up From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:17 PM I figured something was up, as no mail was coming in. Jeff On 4/23/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: Hmm, I just thought we were all back on our meds. Hal "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." --Tom Lehrer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we were without listservice most of the weekend. -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Apr 23 17:44:25 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:44:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage In-Reply-To: <00d401c6671d$81ea3440$838d3052@ANNY> References: <29c.94a6a2b.317d3805@aol.com> <731bb17a0604231417k573dab08ie72aec9759f5dc4@mail.gmail.com> <00d401c6671d$81ea3440$838d3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <731bb17a0604231444l4e16dcb6l6543452e3c5e5fe@mail.gmail.com> Maybe I figured too hard and everyone disappeared? On 4/23/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I thought they were all out since Jeff figured something was up > > *From:* Jeff Newberry > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:17 PM > > > > I figured something was up, as no mail was coming in. > > Jeff > > > On 4/23/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > Hmm, I just thought we were all back on our meds. > > > > > > Hal > > > > "Political satire became obsolete when Henry > > Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." > > --Tom Lehrer > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we > > were without listservice most of the weekend. > > > > -- > "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." > --Miguel de Unamuno > > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Apr 23 17:55:10 2006 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:55:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage References: <7C95F1B6-6E2E-4EFD-A596-541B7863C16D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: Nah. It was all my fault. I'm pretty sure I posted something so true, so profound, so stunningly phrased, that everyone else was just sitting around in awe, afraid to risk comparison. Now, if I could just remember what that was. It didn't show up in my in-box, I'm afraid. . . . > On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > >> Maybe I figured too hard and everyone disappeared? >> >> On 4/23/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: >> I thought they were all out since Jeff figured something was up >> From: Jeff Newberry >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:17 PM >> >> >> I figured something was up, as no mail was coming in. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> On 4/23/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: >> Hmm, I just thought we were all back on >> our meds. >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: >> >>> It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we >>> were without listservice most of the weekend. >> ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sun Apr 23 18:01:09 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:01:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy arthouse release? References: <2e7.589503d.317d4a4e@aol.com> Message-ID: <017501c66721$6d9c4f60$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> I see George Clooney as Satan. ----- Original Message ----- From: JforJames at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy arthouse release? http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060420-073807-4534r Milton's 'Paradise Lost' goes to Hollywood LOS ANGELES, April 20 (UPI) -- John Milton's epic biblical poem, "Paradise Lost," is being turned into a live-action Hollywood film. Scott Derrickson, who studied theology in college, will direct the adaptation of Milton's 1667 tale of Lucifer's failed rebellion in heaven and his role in the disgrace of Adam and Eve, Daily Variety reported Thursday. Derrickson, who directed and co-wrote "The Exorcism of Emily Rose," is also participating the writing process, Variety said. Legendary Pictures Chief Thomas Tull said there is no timetable for the project. "Given the gravity of the source material, it's really important to get it right," he said. "It will be ready when it's ready." ? Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Apr 23 19:09:11 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:09:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy arthouse release? In-Reply-To: <017501c66721$6d9c4f60$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> References: <2e7.589503d.317d4a4e@aol.com> <017501c66721$6d9c4f60$6601a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <731bb17a0604231609w282f1ff6p41781f2b11d19a45@mail.gmail.com> I dunno, Tad, I had Paris Hilton in mind . . . Jeff On 4/23/06, TheOldMole wrote: > > I see George Clooney as Satan. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* JforJames at aol.com > *To:* new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:23 PM > *Subject:* [New-Poetry] Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy arthouse > release? > > > > > > http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060420-073807-4534r > > > > Milton's 'Paradise Lost' goes to Hollywood > > LOS ANGELES, April 20 (UPI) -- John Milton's epic biblical poem, "Paradise > Lost," is being turned into a live-action Hollywood film. > > > > Scott Derrickson, who studied theology in college, will direct the > adaptation of Milton's 1667 tale of Lucifer's failed rebellion in heaven and > his role in the disgrace of Adam and Eve, Daily Variety reported Thursday. > > > > Derrickson, who directed and co-wrote "The Exorcism of Emily Rose," is > also participating the writing process, Variety said. > > > > Legendary Pictures Chief Thomas Tull said there is no timetable for the > project. > > > > "Given the gravity of the source material, it's really important to get it > right," he said. "It will be ready when it's ready." > > > > > > > (c) Copyright 2006 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Apr 23 19:18:30 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:18:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage References: <7C95F1B6-6E2E-4EFD-A596-541B7863C16D@ripon.edu> Message-ID: <002601c6672c$3c329e10$91ec3652@ANNY> It sounds like a something that happened to me once. I had a sort of a strange dream, woke up in the middle of the night, started thinking and finally thought, _now I understand_ I must remember on the following morning I could remember the entire process, except what I had understood From: David Graham Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:55 PM Nah. It was all my fault. I'm pretty sure I posted something so true, so profound, so stunningly phrased, that everyone else was just sitting around in awe, afraid to risk comparison. Now, if I could just remember what that was. It didn't show up in my in-box, I'm afraid. . . . On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: Maybe I figured too hard and everyone disappeared? On 4/23/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: I thought they were all out since Jeff figured something was up From: Jeff Newberry Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:17 PM I figured something was up, as no mail was coming in. Jeff On 4/23/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: Hmm, I just thought we were all back on our meds. Hal On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we were without listservice most of the weekend. ========================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ========================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sun Apr 23 19:23:49 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:23:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] NewPoetry outage In-Reply-To: <002601c6672c$3c329e10$91ec3652@ANNY> References: <7C95F1B6-6E2E-4EFD-A596-541B7863C16D@ripon.edu> <002601c6672c$3c329e10$91ec3652@ANNY> Message-ID: <731bb17a0604231623o1422aa83i11a036655ed76452@mail.gmail.com> I've lost quite a few poems that way. On 4/23/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > It sounds like a something that happened to me once. I had a sort of a > strange dream, woke up in the middle of the night, started thinking and > finally thought, _now I understand_ I must remember > on the following morning I could remember the entire process, except what > I had understood > > > *From:* David Graham > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:55 PM > > > > Nah. It was all my fault. I'm pretty sure I posted something so true, so > profound, so stunningly phrased, that everyone else was just sitting around > in awe, afraid to risk comparison. > > Now, if I could just remember what that was. It didn't show up in my > in-box, I'm afraid. . . . > > > > > On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:44 PM, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > Maybe I figured too hard and everyone disappeared? > > On 4/23/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > > > I thought they were all out since Jeff figured something was up > > > > *From:* Jeff Newberry > > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:17 PM > > > > > > > > I figured something was up, as no mail was coming in. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > On 4/23/06, Halvard Johnson wrote: > > > > > > Hmm, I just thought we were all back on our meds. > > > > > > > > > Hal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:05 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > It would be a bad sign if no one noticed we > > > were without listservice most of the weekend. > > > > > > > > > ========================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > *http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html* > > Poetry Library: > > *http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html* > > ========================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 19:26:23 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:26:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] W.S. Di Piero on Jimmy Schuyler's poetry (& letters) Message-ID: <324.2f5b671.317d671f@aol.com> I just read this yesterday and found there was copy online... _http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0106/comment_176512.html_ (http://www.poetrymagazine.org/magazine/0106/comment_176512.html) Poetry, January 2006 ?Baby Sweetness Blew His Cool Again ... ? by W. S. Di Piero; despite reservations about the content of the letters themselves, he has some good thoughts about Schuyler's poetry and "acheived style"... The other day, walking with a friend new to town, I picked things along the way: eucalyptus buttons, camphor leaves, medlar and lemon blossoms, the scotch broom that Leopardi (whom Schuyler translated) wrote about in ?La ginestra,? and held them up for her to smell. ?You?re erheben-ing!? she said. I?m what? It?s German (she explained) for raising or lifting but suggests something selected and held up, singled out --- Schuyler?s poetry is like attention deficit disorder turned to lyric advantage, a way of weaving the vapors and bulks of sensation and thought into a meditative squirminess, a repining restlessness that keeps tossing him back upon the world?s bosom: ?Life, it seems, explains nothing about itself.? --- Schuyler was aware of his own sleight-of-hand gesturalism, which makes of irresoluteness and uncertainty a chased ?finish? and exasperates some readers of his poetry, yet he knew that a poem?s ?finish? depends on internal dynamics, not shellacked surfaces. --- From early on, Schuyler was preoccupied with what he called an achieved style. Replying in 1954 to a remark by [Fairfield] Porter about self-parody, he wrote: ?It?s often hard to say which flower [among poems by a contemporary] bloomed first, and whether one is wax. So much of art is an exercising of an achieved style?there are so many Monets I would like singly and together, without finding a special uniqueness in any of them. The uniqueness seems to me between the total work and the rest of the world.? He separates this from manner when talking about artists (though it fits poets, too) who, in their twenties and thirties, contrive a signature manner they ride throughout their career. ?I don?t say their work is without merit, but I think it?s mostly an achieved manner, and manner, en masse, makes for ennui.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 19:29:27 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:29:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] W.S. Di Piero on Jimmy Schuyler's poetry (& letters) Message-ID: <3dd.47ac06.317d67d7@aol.com> Fogot to post this nice image, quoted in the article, for spring, which is really here now in New England.... A cardinal Passes like a flying tulip, alights and nails the green day Down. One flame in a fire of sea-soaked, copper-fed wood: A red that leaps from green and holds it there. ?James Schuyler, from Hymn to Life -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Apr 23 19:41:54 2006 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:41:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Violence Message-ID: <3b1.1502496.317d6ac2@cs.com> I love this poem of Dan's. Thanks, David. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 19:55:58 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:55:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] from Susan Schultz Message-ID: <37f.1975e74.317d6e0e@aol.com> In a message dated 4/23/2006 4:11:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: Susan M. Schultz Professor Department of English University of Hawai`i-Manoa Honolulu, HI 96822 _http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=stl_ (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=stl) Go Cards!!! Speaking of cardinals.. How did a Cardinals fan get stuck in the middle of Pacific?...talk about your accidental species. Go Red Birds! my old hometown team. I've resisted the Sux here in CT lo these many years. Trivia question: The Yankees have made more World Series appearances than any other team. What team is second in WS appearances? Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 20:01:02 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 20:01:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Nancy Willard Message-ID: <299.97f2338.317d6f3e@aol.com> In her 2004 collection, IN THE SALT MARSH, Nancy Willard shares her passion for observing the mysteries of the natural world. The Ladybugs It's true. I invited them into my home, four thousand ladybugs from the Sierras. I paid for their passage. I paid for their skilled labor. I was desperate when I read the notice in a mail-order catalog showing flea zappers and organic devices for vaporizing mold. Are pests killing your trees and shrubs? Ladybugs are the answer. They arrived, famished and sleepy, in a muslin bag slim as a pencil case, or a reticule for opera glasses, or very small change. For once in my life I read the instructions for sending my private army into the world. The ladybugs will want a drink after their long journey. Sprinkle the sack before releasing them. I shook handfuls of water over them. Drops big as bombs pounded their shelter, a mass baptism into our human ways. They did not buzz or beat their wings, but as the warmth of my house woke them, I saw a shifting of bodies, of muscles rippling, like waves adjusting themselves to a passing boat. Do not release the ladybugs during the heat of the day or while the sun is shining. Under the full moon I carried my guests to the afflicted catalpa waving its green flags. I untied the bag. I reached in and felt a tickling, a pulsing of lives small as a watch spring. I seized a handful and tossed them into the branches. They clung to my hand for safety. Their brothers and sisters, smelling the night air, hung on my thumb, my wrist, and my arm sleeved in ladybugs, baffled, muttering in the silent tick of their language, Where are we? What does she want of us? Do not release too many at one time. A tablespoon of ladybugs on each shrub and a handful on each tree should keep them pest-free. Keep on hand, always, a small bag of ladybugs in your refrigerator. Do not freeze. I have made my abode with the ladybugs and they have chosen me as their guardian, because the meek shall inherit the earth, because I found one at rest in the porch of my ear, because I did not harm the one that spent the night under the deep ridge of my collarbone, or the one that crossed my knuckles like a ring seeking the perfect finger. KEEP CLICKING: About IN THE SALT MARSH About Nancy Willard Discuss today's selection in the Knopf Poetry Forum >From IN THE SALT MARSH ? Nancy Willard. Excerpted by permission of Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. No part of these excerpts may be reproduced or reprinted without permission in writing from the publisher. We welcome your feedback. Please send any thoughts or questions to _knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com_ (mailto:knopfwebmaster at randomhouse.com) You received this issue because your email address is in Knopf's Poem-a-Day mailing list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to _unsub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com_ (mailto:unsub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com) . Or if you received this poem as a forward and wish to subscribe, send a blank email to _sub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com_ (mailto:sub_knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com) . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 23 20:04:18 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 20:04:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] constraint II Message-ID: <3d3.1109140.317d7002@aol.com> 'Form is a straitjacket in the way that a straitjacket was a straitjacket for Houdini.' ? Paul Muldoon, The Irish Times, 19 April 2003 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Sun Apr 23 20:33:16 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] After American Idol ... In-Reply-To: <3d3.1109140.317d7002@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060424003316.24545.qmail@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> America has voted -- Please listen to the top ten most-selected broadcasts on MiPOradio (http://www.miporadio.net/top10.html). No downloading required~ Enjoy! Amy King MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope at icubed.com Sun Apr 23 13:32:37 2006 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:32:37 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] 13. Re: Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy arthouse release? In-Reply-To: <200604232201.k3NM1Ncx003493@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200604232201.k3NM1Ncx003493@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: If he weren't under the weather: Charlton Heston. Michael McDowell played Satan in the t.v. drama some years ago. I cd do it. Richard Dillon P.S. Osman cd do Jesus. Do him some good. > >Message: 13 >Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:01:09 -0400 >From: "TheOldMole" >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Paradise Lost, a blockbuster or indy > arthouse release? > >I see George Clooney as Satan. > -- From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 24 09:13:04 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:13:04 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 Message-ID: <002b01c667a0$d29e3610$428f3052@ANNY> REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 "It is useless to try to make peace with ourselves by being pleased with everything we have done. In order to settle down in the quiet of our own being we must learn to be detached from the results of our own activity. We must withdraw ourselves, to some extent, from effects that are beyond our control and be content with the good will and the work that are the quiet expression of our inner life. We must be content to live without watching ourselves live, to work without expecting an immediate reward, to love without an instantaneous satisfaction, and to exist without any special recognition. " >From No Man is an Island by Thomas Merton (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers, New York, 1955) Page 121. We would greatly appreciate your help. Please click on the link below and complete a brief survey that will help us to assess ways to better serve you and to plan our programs, publications and retreats. Thank You! http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3?page=program_survey_contemplative.ext (You may have to hold down your Ctrl key when you click on this link) Please note: If you did not receive this email from the Thomas Merton Foundation and you would like subscribe to our weekly reflection email list please click on this link! http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3?page=guestbook.ext Thank you! Important: Some anti-spam systems filter out e-mails you actually want to read. To ensure that you continue to receive this weekly e-mail, please add contactus at mertonfoundation.org to your address book today. If you would like to comment on this quote or share your "Merton" story please reply to this email at rtoth at mertonfoundation.org To Unsubscribe: If you no longer want to receive this weekly reflection reply to this email with a note to remove you from the list. Robert G. Toth Executive Director Thomas Merton Foundation 2117 Payne Street, Louisville, KY 40206 (502) 899-1957 (800 ) 886-7275 rtoth at mertonfoundation.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Mon Apr 24 13:46:02 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:46:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 In-Reply-To: <002b01c667a0$d29e3610$428f3052@ANNY> References: <002b01c667a0$d29e3610$428f3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <648208b60604241046l34fb89e8r639e09908004021@mail.gmail.com> I'm going to save this and copy it in a nice font at 16 pt, then print it on fancy paper and mount it in some gizmo just so I can place it on the book table at the next AWP bookfair I attend, which will probably be NYC in '08. If we all survive whatever, that is. - Jim On 4/24/06, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 > > > "It is useless to try to make peace with ourselves by being > pleased with everything we have done. In order to settle down in the quiet > of our own being we must learn to be detached from the results of our own > activity. We must withdraw ourselves, to some extent, from effects that are > beyond our control and be content with the good will and the work that are > the quiet expression of our inner life. We must be content to live without > watching ourselves live, to work without expecting an immediate reward, to > love without an instantaneous satisfaction, and to exist without any special > recognition. " > > > > >From No Man is an Island by Thomas Merton > > (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers, New York, 1955) Page 121. > > > > > > > > We would greatly appreciate your help. Please click on the link below and > complete > > a brief survey that will help us to assess ways to better serve you and to > plan > > our programs, publications and retreats. Thank You! > > > > > > > > http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3?page=program_survey_contemplative.ext > > (You may have to hold down your Ctrl key when you click on this link) > > > > > > > > > > Please note: If you did not receive this email from the Thomas Merton > Foundation > > and you would like subscribe to our weekly reflection email list please > click on this link! > http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3?page=guestbook.ext Thank > you! > > > > Important: Some anti-spam systems filter out e-mails you actually want to > read. To ensure that you continue to receive this weekly e-mail, please add > contactus at mertonfoundation.org to your address book today. > > > > If you would like to comment on this quote or share your "Merton" story > please reply to this email at rtoth at mertonfoundation.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: If you no longer want to receive this weekly reflection > reply to this email > > with a note to remove you from the list. > > > > Robert G. Toth > > Executive Director > Thomas Merton Foundation > 2117 Payne Street, Louisville, KY 40206 (502) 899-1957 (800 ) 886-7275 > > rtoth at mertonfoundation.org > > > > From rsillima at yahoo.com Mon Apr 24 15:12:08 2006 From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <20060424191208.79633.qmail@web31813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ RECENT POSTS A survey of poets their reading and publishing habits online and in print The Poet Laureate of the Blogosphere Rethinking aura in front of the Enola Gay, the Space Shuttle and Sandra Day O???Connor Insider vs. outsider art Andi Olsen???s film Where the Smiling Ends at the American Visionary Art Museum Be Here to Love Me A film about Townes Van Zandt Ten years of poetry at the Washington Post 16 grand pianos, 4 drums, 3 xylophones one gong, assorted alarms and a piercing siren - George Antheil makes everyone jump at Dada in DC A selected poems for Louis Zukofsky The Library of America volume Publishers Weekly on poetry and the web Redell Olsen and Drew Milne The place of English http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 24 15:47:05 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:47:05 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Huston Centenary Message-ID: <006701c667d7$ddad75c0$20c93a52@ANNY> > From: Tony Tracy [mailto:tonyt at ireland.com] > Sent: donderdag 30 maart 2006 11:19 call for papers John Huston Centenary Conference On November 23rd-24th 2006 (Thanksgiving recess), The Huston School of Film & Digital Media at the National University of Ireland, Galway will host a two day centenary conference on the films of John Huston (1906-1987). Submissions are invited for papers (25mins in duration) dealing with the life and work of this most versatile and charismatic of American directors. Huston directed 41 films over 46 years and was much celebrated by his peers and associates but has been under-represented in the critical literature. This conference wishes to redress such neglect and provide a forum for as wide a consideration of his contribution to cinema as possible. It is intended that the proceedings from the conference will be published. Topics for consideration might include: Huston as actor; as writer; as auteur; as personality; approaches to genre; considerations of the many adaptations in his oeuvre; Huston's life and film activities in Ireland; representations of gender in his work; Huston's relationship with Hollywood; his political stances; thematic studies; etc. Please submit a 300 word proposal, stating the topic, aims and scope of the paper along with a brief CV via email to tony.tracy at nuigalway.ie as a MS Word attachment, with the subject line 'Huston conference abstract'. New deadline for submissions: May 7th 2006 (existing proposals stand) Confirmed Keynote speaker: Joseph McBride ('Searching For John Ford') -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Apr 24 16:26:59 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:26:59 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Huston Centenary References: <006701c667d7$ddad75c0$20c93a52@ANNY> Message-ID: <007d01c667dd$7090f7e0$20c93a52@ANNY> a good pic of his statue on Wikipedia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/JohnHustoninPV.jpg From: Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:47 PM > From: Tony Tracy [mailto:tonyt at ireland.com] > Sent: donderdag 30 maart 2006 11:19 call for papers John Huston Centenary Conference On November 23rd-24th 2006 (Thanksgiving recess), The Huston School of Film & Digital Media at the National University of Ireland, Galway will host a two day centenary conference on the films of John Huston (1906-1987). Submissions are invited for papers (25mins in duration) dealing with the life and work of this most versatile and charismatic of American directors. Huston directed 41 films over 46 years and was much celebrated by his peers and associates but has been under-represented in the critical literature. This conference wishes to redress such neglect and provide a forum for as wide a consideration of his contribution to cinema as possible. It is intended that the proceedings from the conference will be published. Topics for consideration might include: Huston as actor; as writer; as auteur; as personality; approaches to genre; considerations of the many adaptations in his oeuvre; Huston's life and film activities in Ireland; representations of gender in his work; Huston's relationship with Hollywood; his political stances; thematic studies; etc. Please submit a 300 word proposal, stating the topic, aims and scope of the paper along with a brief CV via email to tony.tracy at nuigalway.ie as a MS Word attachment, with the subject line 'Huston conference abstract'. New deadline for submissions: May 7th 2006 (existing proposals stand) Confirmed Keynote speaker: Joseph McBride ('Searching For John Ford') ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Apr 25 09:25:58 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:25:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] what poetry is sometimes Message-ID: <01ac01c6686b$ca0607a0$dca93852@ANNY> I asked ten 15 year old students to write about poetry, here are some excerpts, my comments in brackets: Poetry is wonderful; I do know that sounds a bit banal, but it's the truth! I wish I could write poems . Maybe in the future I'll read a poem by Dante or by Montale and suddenly that will give me the strength to go through particular events that sometimes happen in life, like for example the marriage (sic) or the death of a family member. xxx Poetry is something so special because a poem can change human thought and explain why some things happen. Poetry is a form to communicate the emotions of all the people and it's indispensable to live. (followed by a sad love story Xxxx I like to have a private diary because when I write it I feel like a poet! I like all kinds of poetry! (sic) Xxxxx I think that poetry is a thing (sic) used to express emotions and communicate those feelings to other people. It's very important because if it is sincere, it can describe the world in a few words. Yes, sometimes I think it is boring, irrelevant, and a thing that only the old people like. (and I could copy this one in its entirety, and the other ones as well. Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 12:33:33 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] MiPOesias - Friday @ Stain Bar in Brooklyn -- Tynes, Hamm, & Firestone In-Reply-To: <3d3.1109140.317d7002@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060425163333.60794.qmail@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 7PM on Friday, April 28th @ Stain Bar in Williamsburg, Brooklyn Jen Tynes (http://www.mipoesias.com/Shorts/tynes_jen.html) Christine Hamm (http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/hamm_christine.html) Jennifer Firestone (http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/firestone_jennifer.html) stain 766 grand street brooklyn, ny 11211 (L to Grand, 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ STAIN is a unique arts lounge dedicated to local products and talent. _____________________ Jen Tynes lives in Providence, Rhode Island, where she teaches writing and edits horse less press. She is the author of one book of poetry, The End Of Rude Handles (Red Morning Press). Her writing has recently appeared or is forthcoming in Kulture Vulture, Diagram, Typo, The Cultural Society, CutBank, jubilat, No Tell Motel, Octopus and H_NGM_N. Visit her web to track her recent collaboration-in-progress with Erika Howsare. \n? \n? \nChristine Hamm is a graduate of Reed College and has an MFA in creative writing. Her work has been published in over 70 journals, including The Adirondack Review, Pebble Lake Review, Lodestar Quarterly, Poetry Midwest, Rattle, Snow Monkey\n, and the Absinthe Literary Review.? In 2006, she has two chapbooks coming out: The Animal Husband, Dancing Girl Press; and The Salt Daughter, Little Poem Press, and one full-length book; The Transparent Dinner\n, Mayapple Press. She is on the editorial board of several literary journals, including Vernacular. She teaches literature at the College of New Rochelle and poetry writing at Women\'s Studio Center in Queens, NY. For more about her, go to \nchamm.blogspot.com \n? \n? \nJennifer Firestone is a Brooklyn-based poet from San Francisco. She teaches poetry at Eugene Lang College (The New School for Liberal Arts), where she was recently appointed Poet In Residence. Jennifer\'s chapbook, \nsnapshot, was published by Sona Books. She has also received grant-supported writing residencies at The Ragdale Foundation, Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts and the Vermont Studio Center. Currently, she is in the process of editing a book called \nLetters To Poets: Conversations about Poetics, Politics and Community, which includes such writers as Anne Waldman, Leslie Scalapino, Victor Cruz, Eileen Myles and Quincy Troupe. Her work can be found in the following journals: \nLungfull! magazine, Poetry Salzburg Review, Can We Have Our Ball Back, Fourteen Hills, Interim, moria, The Cortland Review, Phoebe, Karamu, Connecticut Poetry Review and others.\n",1] ); //--> to track her recent collaboration-in-progress with Erika Howsare. Christine Hamm is a graduate of Reed College and has an MFA in creative writing. Her work has been published in over 70 journals, including The Adirondack Review, Pebble Lake Review, Lodestar Quarterly, Poetry Midwest, Rattle, Snow Monkey , and the Absinthe Literary Review. In 2006, she has two chapbooks coming out: The Animal Husband, Dancing Girl Press; and The Salt Daughter, Little Poem Press, and one full-length book; The Transparent Dinner , Mayapple Press. She is on the editorial board of several literary journals, including Vernacular. She teaches literature at the College of New Rochelle and poetry writing at Women's Studio Center in Queens, NY. For more about her, go to chamm.blogspot.com Jennifer Firestone is a Brooklyn-based poet from San Francisco. She teaches poetry at Eugene Lang College (The New School for Liberal Arts), where she was recently appointed Poet In Residence. Jennifer's chapbook, snapshot, was published by Sona Books. She has also received grant-supported writing residencies at The Ragdale Foundation, Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts and the Vermont Studio Center. Currently, she is in the process of editing a book called Letters To Poets: Conversations about Poetics, Politics and Community, which includes such writers as Anne Waldman, Leslie Scalapino, Victor Cruz, Eileen Myles and Quincy Troupe. Her work can be found in the following journals: Lungfull! magazine, Poetry Salzburg Review, Can We Have Our Ball Back, Fourteen Hills, Interim, moria, The Cortland Review, Phoebe, Karamu, Connecticut Poetry Review and others. \n? \n? \n\nHope to see you there! \n? \nAmy King & Didi Menendez \n? \nMiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com? \n? \nMiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html?? \n? \nReading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ \n\n? \n? \n\n ",0] ); D(["ce"]); //--> Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Wed Apr 26 12:30:11 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:30:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?New_Letters_Awards_for_Writers_=E2=80=93_?= =?utf-8?q?Deadline_May_18=2C_2006?= Message-ID: <3e1.77099c.3180fa13@aol.com> New Letters Awards for Writers ? Deadline May 18, 2006. ?HURRY UP PLEASE ITS TIME? We will award $4,500 in prizes this year ? $1,500 in each category of poetry, fiction, and essays, if received by May 18, 2006. Every entry is considered for publication ? not just the first-place winners. Your work will be read by professional writers and editors. Our 2005 winner of the Alexander Patterson Cappon Fiction Award had published articles in newspapers and magazines, but the story that appears in our current issue is her first publication in fiction. Multiple entries are welcome. With three clear weeks until our deadline, we?re already getting excited about the new writing our judges will discover. Send your entries by regular mail or enter online: www.newletters.org/awards.asp Reading fee (manuscript sent regular post)* Reading fee (manuscript sent on-line)* *Bonus: Your entry fee entitles you to a one-year subscription, gift subscription or renewal to New Letters magazine. Our current issue celebrates the work of last year?s winners?check out the contents at our Web site: www.newletters.org. New Letters Awards for Writers University of Missouri-Kansas City 5101 Rockhill Road Kansas City, MO 64110 (816) 235-1168 To be removed from this mailing list, please go to or send an email message to the address listserv at listserv.umkc.edu, with the text SIGNOFF NEWLETTERS2 in the body of the message. Problems or questions should be directed to manager at listserv.umkc.edu. &*TO; -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 26 12:45:09 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:45:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 In-Reply-To: <002b01c667a0$d29e3610$428f3052@ANNY> References: <002b01c667a0$d29e3610$428f3052@ANNY> Message-ID: <3D7AF88D-9ABB-4FF0-8ADB-9C0FFE1B0B05@earthlink.net> Got a copy of Merton's "Message to Poets" there anywhere, Anny? I'd love to see the full text of that online somewhere. Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 > > ?It is useless to try to make peace with ourselves by > being pleased with everything we have done. In order to settle > down in the quiet of our own being we must learn to be detached > from the results of our own activity. We must withdraw ourselves, > to some extent, from effects that are beyond our control and be > content with the good will and the work that are the quiet > expression of our inner life. We must be content to live without > watching ourselves live, to work without expecting an immediate > reward, to love without an instantaneous satisfaction, and to exist > without any special recognition. ? > > > From No Man is an Island by Thomas Merton > > (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers, New York, 1955) Page 121. > > > > > We would greatly appreciate your help. Please click on the link > below and complete > a brief survey that will help us to assess ways to better serve you > and to plan > our programs, publications and retreats. Thank You! > > > > http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3? > page=program_survey_contemplative.ext > (You may have to hold down your Ctrl key when you click on this link) > > > > > Please note: If you did not receive this email from the Thomas > Merton Foundation > and you would like subscribe to our weekly reflection email list > please click on this link! http://www.mertonfoundation.org/ > merton.php3?page=guestbook.ext Thank you! > > > Important: Some anti-spam systems filter out e-mails you actually > want to read. To ensure that you continue to receive this weekly e- > mail, please add contactus at mertonfoundation.org to your address > book today. > > > If you would like to comment on this quote or share your ?Merton? > story please reply to this email at rtoth at mertonfoundation.org > > > To Unsubscribe: If you no longer want to receive this weekly > reflection reply to this email > > with a note to remove you from the list. > > Robert G. Toth > Executive Director > Thomas Merton Foundation > 2117 Payne Street, Louisville, KY 40206 (502) 899-1957 (800 ) > 886-7275 > > rtoth at mertonfoundation.org > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Wed Apr 26 14:22:52 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:22:52 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] I-Space: new poems, reviews, essays In-Reply-To: <200604261600.k3QG03Yw018540@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: (apologies for multiple sendings) New at http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/ a collective poetry blogzine POEMS New Poems by Lisa Samuels REVIEWS Peter Riley, Excavations Anthony Hawley, The Concerto Form POEM ENCOUNTERS On John Ashbery, The Couple in the Next Room "the fumes of three / different blooms" - John Kinsella ESSAYS Ruinography: Hip-Hop Lyric I (N.W.A.) Aristotle's Styles: On Memory Allen Fisher Linkages (an exhaustive set of 48 Allen Fisher links) Three leaves of Moniza Alvi ("I might have spent too long with Moniza Alvi's poems. Behind their popular tales, childlike appeals, helium fantasies, I hear a different sound-world, forced and awkward, characteristically a sound of toil, altogether more sombre.") PLUS Reznikoff encounters Frost "Strawberry sandwiches are great for picnics": Muriel Spark William Wyatt Uncorrected / Becoming-Woman / Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge links updated ABOUT "Intercapillary Space" is a collective poetry blogzine mixing material written by regular contributors with other pieces invited or submitted. To join as a regular contributor, to review books or to otherwise submit written matter, please email Edmund. All are very welcome. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Apr 26 14:51:46 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:51:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 References: <002b01c667a0$d29e3610$428f3052@ANNY> <3D7AF88D-9ABB-4FF0-8ADB-9C0FFE1B0B05@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008f01c66962$78160ba0$8ca83452@ANNY> hI HAL I asked Joel Weishaus if he could help, here is his answer: It's in Merton's book, "Raids on the Unspeakable." pp155-161. As for online, I don't know. From: Halvard Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:45 PM Got a copy of Merton's "Message to Poets" there anywhere, Anny? I'd love to see the full text of that online somewhere. Hal "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder." --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 ?It is useless to try to make peace with ourselves by being pleased with everything we have done. In order to settle down in the quiet of our own being we must learn to be detached from the results of our own activity. We must withdraw ourselves, to some extent, from effects that are beyond our control and be content with the good will and the work that are the quiet expression of our inner life. We must be content to live without watching ourselves live, to work without expecting an immediate reward, to love without an instantaneous satisfaction, and to exist without any special recognition. ? From No Man is an Island by Thomas Merton (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers, New York, 1955) Page 121. We would greatly appreciate your help. Please click on the link below and complete a brief survey that will help us to assess ways to better serve you and to plan our programs, publications and retreats. Thank You! http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3?page=program_survey_contemplative.ext (You may have to hold down your Ctrl key when you click on this link) Please note: If you did not receive this email from the Thomas Merton Foundation and you would like subscribe to our weekly reflection email list please click on this link! http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3?page=guestbook.ext Thank you! Important: Some anti-spam systems filter out e-mails you actually want to read. To ensure that you continue to receive this weekly e-mail, please add contactus at mertonfoundation.org to your address book today. If you would like to comment on this quote or share your ?Merton? story please reply to this email at rtoth at mertonfoundation.org To Unsubscribe: If you no longer want to receive this weekly reflection reply to this email with a note to remove you from the list. Robert G. Toth Executive Director Thomas Merton Foundation 2117 Payne Street, Louisville, KY 40206 (502) 899-1957 (800 ) 886-7275 rtoth at mertonfoundation.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 26 15:45:31 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:45:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 In-Reply-To: <01cb01c66961$d56b6fd0$edfdfc83@Weishaus> References: <004101c6695e$7f790e00$8ca83452@ANNY> <01cb01c66961$d56b6fd0$edfdfc83@Weishaus> Message-ID: <7A947273-46A3-457F-993D-046220291E78@earthlink.net> Got the book, Joel. Wish it were online so everyone else could get their eyes on it. Hal Driskin Funeral Chapel, Inc. Amherst, VA 24521 "Dedicated to Serving You" Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org On Apr 26, 2006, at 2:47 PM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > It's in Merton's book, "Raids on the Unspeakable." pp155-161. > As for online, I don't know. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anny Ballardini > To: Joel Weishaus > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:23 AM > Subject: Fw: [New-Poetry] Fw: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, > 2006 > > Hi dear Joel, > > do you think you have what Hal asks me to find? > thank you and till soon, Anny > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Halvard Johnson > To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fw: REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, > 2006 > > Got a copy of Merton's "Message to Poets" there anywhere, Anny? > I'd love to see the full text of that online somewhere. > > Hal > > "The policeman isn't there to create disorder, > the policeman is there to preserve disorder." > --Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard at earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > > > On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Anny Ballardini wrote: > >> >> REFLECTION FOR THE WEEK OF April 24, 2006 >> >> >> ?It is useless to try to make peace with ourselves by >> being pleased with everything we have done. In order to settle >> down in the quiet of our own being we must learn to be detached >> from the results of our own activity. We must withdraw ourselves, >> to some extent, from effects that are beyond our control and be >> content with the good will and the work that are the quiet >> expression of our inner life. We must be content to live without >> watching ourselves live, to work without expecting an immediate >> reward, to love without an instantaneous satisfaction, and to >> exist without any special recognition. ? >> >> >> >> From No Man is an Island by Thomas Merton >> >> (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers, New York, 1955) Page 121. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> We would greatly appreciate your help. Please click on the link >> below and complete >> a brief survey that will help us to assess ways to better serve >> you and to plan >> our programs, publications and retreats. Thank You! >> >> >> >> http://www.mertonfoundation.org/merton.php3? >> page=program_survey_contemplative.ext >> (You may have to hold down your Ctrl key when you click on this link) >> >> >> >> >> Please note: If you did not receive this email from the Thomas >> Merton Foundation >> and you would like subscribe to our weekly reflection email list >> please click on this link!http://www.mertonfoundation.org/ >> merton.php3?page=guestbook.ext Thank you! >> >> >> >> Important: Some anti-spam systems filter out e-mails you actually >> want to read. To ensure that you continue to receive this weekly >> e-mail, please add contactus at mertonfoundation.org to your address >> book today. >> >> >> >> If you would like to comment on this quote or share your ?Merton? >> story please reply to this email at rtoth at mertonfoundation.org >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: If you no longer want to receive this weekly >> reflection reply to this email >> >> with a note to remove you from the list. >> >> >> Robert G. Toth >> Executive Director >> Thomas Merton Foundation >> 2117 Payne Street, Louisville, KY 40206 (502) 899-1957 (800 ) >> 886-7275 >> >> rtoth at mertonfoundation.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Apr 26 16:36:18 2006 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:36:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams, "April Is the Saddest Month" Message-ID: April Is the Saddest Month There they were stuck dog and bitch halving the compass Then when with his yip they parted oh how frolicsome she grew before him playful dancing and how disconsolate he retreated hang-dog she following through the shrubbery --William Carlos Williams in The Collected Poems of William Carlos Williams, Vol. II (1939-1962) [New York: New Directions, 1988] Hal Halvard Johnson ================ halvard at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Apr 27 11:16:26 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:16:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Testing? Message-ID: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> Testing? 1 . . . 2 . . . 3? Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Apr 27 13:54:34 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:54:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Testing? References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002c01c66a23$a5319ed0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> It didn't work, Jeff--I got your message. --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Testing? Testing? 1 . . . 2 . . . 3? Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 27 14:27:44 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:27:44 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Testing? References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> <002c01c66a23$a5319ed0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <010e01c66a28$46e35ee0$d2ad3252@ANNY> Water A man cannot make his way to a new shore, if first he hasn't found the courage to abandon the old one. Andr? Gide (1869-1951) ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:54 PM It didn't work, Jeff--I got your message. --Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Testing? Testing? 1 . . . 2 . . . 3? Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 27 17:02:58 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:02:58 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: Stars, their odorless decay Message-ID: <016801c66a3d$f6b76040$d2ad3252@ANNY> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Harrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:25 AM Subject: Stars, their odorless decay > stars are blank, tho whiter; infernal, tho diaphanous; > Argos..., ...Argos, sportive, or the host of innocence > (multitudinous, or themselves an accommodator) > > > melodiously, I hear, they roll thru airy Illium, un- > inscribed, delineable by none (perhaps not unduly past > what was to succeed this counterfeit sun) > From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu Thu Apr 27 17:03:19 2006 From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:03:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gardening poetry In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu> I have an unusual request for list members. In mid-May our family is holding a memorial service for my mother, who died in March at the age of 95. She was an avid gardener, and among the readings at her memorial we would like to include at least one poem about the joys/rewards of gardening. If any of you have any favorites with that theme (relatively brief, and good to read aloud), could you send me your suggestions (with the poems, or where to find them)? It would be greatly appreciated, because what I am finding initially from web searching is rather cloying. You can reply offlist if you wish, to avoid crowding other people's mailboxes. Thank you in advance for any suggestions you have. Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Apr 27 17:21:42 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:21:42 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gardening poetry References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> <44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <016d01c66a40$94a04360$d2ad3252@ANNY> I thought of HD Doolittle, here you can find some: http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/hd01.html Orchard I SAW the first pear as it fell-- the honey-seeking, golden-banded, the yellow swarm was not more fleet than I, (spare us from loveliness) and I fell prostrate crying: you have flayed us with your blossoms, spare us the beauty of fruit-trees. The honey-seeking paused not, the air thundered their song, and I alone was prostrate. O rough-hewn god of the orchard, I bring you an offering-- do you, alone unbeautiful, son of the god, spare us from loveliness: these fallen hazel-nuts, stripped late of their green sheaths, grapes, red-purple, their berries dripping with wine, pomegranates already broken, and shrunken figs and quinces untouched, I bring you as offering. H.D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Wilsnack" To: Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Gardening poetry >I have an unusual request for list members. > > In mid-May our family is holding a memorial service for my mother, who > died in March at the age of 95. She was an avid gardener, and among the > readings at her memorial we would like to include at least one poem > about the joys/rewards of gardening. If any of you have any favorites > with that theme (relatively brief, and good to read aloud), could you > send me your suggestions (with the poems, or where to find them)? It > would be greatly appreciated, because what I am finding initially from > web searching is rather cloying. You can reply offlist if you wish, to > avoid crowding other people's mailboxes. > > Thank you in advance for any suggestions you have. > > Richard W. Wilsnack > rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Thu Apr 27 19:38:38 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:38:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] CPR's Best Poetry Books 2005 Message-ID: <731bb17a0604271638k4f48a4beg25ed836cfe545d98@mail.gmail.com> http://www.cprw.com/books05.htm No surprises here, I don't think. Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cc at opus0.com Thu Apr 27 19:54:51 2006 From: cc at opus0.com (Cris) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:54:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Williams, "April is the Saddest Month" In-Reply-To: <200604271600.k3RG03Yw003850@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200604271600.k3RG03Yw003850@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5896A059-D959-40DC-8C37-AD2F62C7944C@opus0.com> > Hal, Missed this in my cursory scan of WCW's collected. Very amusing! Shows perhaps a bit of his feeling toward TSE? A good bookend to great & imaginative grousing of WL -- casual observation of the true business of spring. All well in San Miguel. Happy Poetry Month to all. Cris > Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:36:18 -0400 > From: Halvard Johnson > Subject: [New-Poetry] Williams, "April Is the Saddest Month" > To: New-Poetry New-Poetry > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > April Is the Saddest Month > > There they were > stuck > dog and bitch > halving the compass > > Then when > with his yip > they parted > oh how frolicsome > > she grew before him > playful > dancing and > how disconsolate > > he retreated > hang-dog > she following > through the shrubbery > > --William Carlos Williams > > in The Collected Poems of William Carlos Williams, Vol. II (1939-1962) > [New York: New Directions, 1988] > > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson From vanshel400 at aol.com Fri Apr 28 08:32:14 2006 From: vanshel400 at aol.com (vanshel400 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:32:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gardening poetry In-Reply-To: <44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu> References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com> <44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu> Message-ID: <8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com> I don't know who wrote this, but perhaps someone else will. Michelle Vanstrom There is peace within a garden A peace so deep and calm that when the heart is troubled its like a soothing balm. There is life within a garden a life that still goes on filling empty places when older plants are gone. There's glory in the garden at everytime of year spring, summer, autumn, winter to fill the heart with cheer. So ever tend your garden its beauty to increase for in it you'll find solace and in it you'll find peace. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Wilsnack To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:03:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gardening poetry I have an unusual request for list members. In mid-May our family is holding a memorial service for my mother, who died in March at the age of 95. She was an avid gardener, and among the readings at her memorial we would like to include at least one poem about the joys/rewards of gardening. If any of you have any favorites with that theme (relatively brief, and good to read aloud), could you send me your suggestions (with the poems, or where to find them)? It would be greatly appreciated, because what I am finding initially from web searching is rather cloying. You can reply offlist if you wish, to avoid crowding other people's mailboxes. Thank you in advance for any suggestions you have. Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opus40-01 at opus40.org Fri Apr 28 09:41:36 2006 From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:41:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gardening poetry Message-ID: <20060428134136.5EAED13CFF@smapp03.siteprotect.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amyhappens at yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 11:01:45 2006 From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Please Expose Yourself Tonight In-Reply-To: <20060425163333.60794.qmail@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060428150145.2774.qmail@web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To the amazing poetry and prose work of Jennifer Firestone, Christine Hamm, and Jen Tynes~ 7PM on Friday, April 28th @ Stain Bar in Williamsburg, Brooklyn Jen Tynes (http://www.mipoesias.com/Shorts/tynes_jen.html) Christine Hamm (http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/hamm_christine.html) Jennifer Firestone (http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/firestone_jennifer.html) Stain Bar * 766 Grand Street * Brooklyn, NY 11211 * (L train to Grand Street stop, walk 1 block west) * 718/387-7840 STAIN is a unique arts lounge dedicated to local products and talent. _____________________ Jen Tynes lives in Providence, Rhode Island, where she teaches writing and edits horse less press. She is the author of one book of poetry, The End Of Rude Handles (Red Morning Press). Her writing has recently appeared or is forthcoming in Kulture Vulture, Diagram, Typo, The Cultural Society, CutBank, jubilat, No Tell Motel, Octopus and H_NGM_N. Visit her web to track her recent collaboration-in-progress with Erika Howsare. Christine Hamm is a graduate of Reed College and has an MFA in creative writing. Her work has been published in over 70 journals, including The Adirondack Review, Pebble Lake Review, Lodestar Quarterly, Poetry Midwest, Rattle, Snow Monkey , and the Absinthe Literary Review. In 2006, she has two chapbooks coming out: The Animal Husband, Dancing Girl Press; and The Salt Daughter, Little Poem Press, and one full-length book; The Transparent Dinner , Mayapple Press. She is on the editorial board of several literary journals, including Vernacular. She teaches literature at the College of New Rochelle and poetry writing at Women's Studio Center in Queens, NY. For more about her, go to chamm.blogspot.com Jennifer Firestone is a Brooklyn-based poet from San Francisco. She teaches poetry at Eugene Lang College (The New School for Liberal Arts), where she was recently appointed Poet In Residence. Jennifer's chapbook, snapshot, was published by Sona Books. She has also received grant-supported writing residencies at The Ragdale Foundation, Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts and the Vermont Studio Center. Currently, she is in the process of editing a book called Letters To Poets: Conversations about Poetics, Politics and Community, which includes such writers as Anne Waldman, Leslie Scalapino, Victor Cruz, Eileen Myles and Quincy Troupe. Her work can be found in the following journals: Lungfull! magazine, Poetry Salzburg Review, Can We Have Our Ball Back, Fourteen Hills, Interim, moria, The Cortland Review, Phoebe, Karamu, Connecticut Poetry Review and others. Hope to see you there! Amy King & Didi Menendez MiPOesias -- http://www.mipoesias.com MiPOradio -- http://www.miporadio.net/index1.html Reading Series -- http://miporeadingseries.blogspot.com/ [**Incidentally, this is quite an easy trek for you Manhattanites; don?t be intimidated by that bold word, ?Brooklyn.? The L train is the grey train line on the NYC subway line that cuts across all of 14th street with stops along the way. Once the L train goes under the East River, you have three quick stops to hit before getting off the train at the fourth, Grand Street, which will take you a total of eight minutes once you?ve left the mother island. Be adventurous and come to the other side!) http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Apr 28 14:59:28 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:59:28 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] IRELAND AND THE AMERICAS: History, Politics, Culture Message-ID: <00c201c66af5$e0a613b0$33ac3452@ANNY> > From: Philip Coleman [mailto:pmcolema at tcd.ie] > Sent: woensdag 22 maart 2006 13:59 CALL FOR CONTRIBUTORS IRELAND AND THE AMERICAS: History, Politics, Culture The editors of Ireland and the Americas: History, Politics, Culture, a major new reference work due to be published in December 2006 as part of ABC-Clio' s Transatlantic Relations Series, urgently require authors for the following entries. Word limits are negotiable, but authors must be willing to submit completed articles by the 30th of April 2006. For further information, including a copy of a sample entry and guidelines for authors, please contact Dr Jason King at irishamericanrelations at yahoo.co.uk or Dr Philip Coleman at philip.coleman at tcd.ie. Alabama Arizona Arkansas Begley, Edward James (1901-70), actor Brady, Alice (1892-1939), actress Broderick, David Colbreth (1820-59), entrepreneur Brophy, John (1883-1963), labour organiser Butte (Montana) Carney, Art (1918- ), actor Clark, Patrick (1850-1915), miner, entrepreneur Cline, Maggie (1857-1934), Vaudeville performer Connor, Jerome (1876-1943), sculptor Cudahy, Edward Aloysius, Jr. (1885-1966), businessman Cudahy, Michael (1841-1910), businessman Cudahy, Patrick (1849-1919), businessman and philanthropist Daley, Cass (1915-75), comedienne Delaware Doheny, Edward Laurence (1865-1935), oil magnate Donahue, Peter (1822-85), entrepreneur El Salvador Farley, Archbishop John Murphy (?-1918) Farrell, James Augustine (1862-1943), steel executive Fay, Francis Anthony ("Frank") (1897-1961), actor Feeney, Chuck (?), Philanthropist. Fitzsimmons, James Edward ("Sunny Jim") (1874-1966), racehorse trainer Flannery, John (1835-1910), banker Fleming, Thomas J. (1927- ), writer Flood, James Cair (1826-88), entrepreneur Florida Flynn, Bill (19 ), National Committee on American Foreign Policy Fogarty, Gerald P. (1939- ), historian Foreign Policy, Irish, in the early years of the twenty-first century French Guiana GAA Georgia Golf Guatemala Haley, Jack (1899-1979), actor Hawaii Hayes, Archbishop Patrick Joseph (?-1938) Healy, Michael Morris (1796-1850), plantation owner Heaney, Seamus (1939- ), poet Heffernan, Michael (1942- ), poet Henry, Michael (1864-1910), railroad builder Heron, Matilda (1830-77), actress Horgan, Paul George (1903-95), writer Howard, Maureen (1930- ), writer Howe, Fanny (1940- ), poet Howe, Susan (1937- ), poet IDA (Industrial Development Authority) Idaho Illinois Imports/Exports Indiana Iowa Jordan, Kate (1862-1926), novelist Kane, Helen (1904-66), actress Kearns, Thomas (1862-1918), entrepreneur Kelly, 'Honest John' (?), politician Kelly, Cornelius "Con" Francis (?-1957), capitalist, copper king Kelly, Gene, actor Kentucky Landlords and Tenants Lynch, Patricia (), writer Lynch, Thomas, (), poet an author MacDonald, Michael Patrick (), social worker, author Maryland McCann, Donal (1943-1999), actor McCarthy, Charles Louis ("Clem") (1882-1962), sports broadcaster McClenachan, Blair ([?]-1812), merchant McDonald, Richard ("Dick") (1909-98), fast-food pioneer Missouri Mitchell Principles, the Mitchell, George J. (19 ), politician and author of "The Mitchell Principles" Molly Maguires Moore, Mick (), Limerick-born musician and folklorist Morrison, Bruce (?), politician Morrissey, Ruthie (), singer Murphy, George (1902-92), actor Myles, Eileen (b. 1949), poet and writer Nebraska Nevada New Jersey New Mexico North Dakota Notre Dame College O'Brien, Pat (), actor O'Herlihy, Dan (1919-), actor O'Neill, James (), actor O'Reilly, Anthony, Sir (19 ), business executive O'Shaughnessy, Ignatius Aloysius (1885-1973), hydraulic engineer O'Toole, Peter (1932-), actor Ohio Orange Order Pennsylvania Powderly, Terence (), founder of the Knights of Labor Redshaw, Thomas Dillon (1944- ), editor Remittances Repeal Movement Rhode Island Secret Societies South Carolina South Dakota Spellman, Archbishop Francis Joseph (?-1967) St. Patrick's Society Suriname Tennessee Theatre and Drama, Irish-American Tuohy, Patrick J. (1894-1930), artist U.S. Foreign Policy and Irish Affairs Ulster Irish League of America Utah Virginia Washington State West Virginia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 29 06:50:04 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 06:50:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu> <8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> The Cleveland Plain Dealer had a review of the visiotextual art show I was involved in which might amuse those of you who remember Marcus Bales and his, to me, obsessive campaign against my attempts to taxonomize poetry (which I claim has never been obsessive--except in the eyes of those who hate analysis). I've heard very little about the show except that it came off, and looks, in photographs I've seen, quite impressive. The webzine, The Bridge, will be running a huge overview (by me) of it, which will include many of the pieces in it. So something good has come of it. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sat Apr 29 08:12:36 2006 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:12:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu><8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com> <003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <003001c66b86$3418ad60$bbac3452@ANNY> Great well, sort of I have so much to read on The Big Bridge that by now I think that you and Michael Rothenberg and the like have absolutely no compassion for human beings, i.e. for me. I even have a (what I think marvelous) story by Michael to read, printed it out and once in while stuff in my bag that maybe, I might be able to read it in those five minutes while... and sorry, Bob, but it _was_ obsessive sometimes, but good that it had such a spectacular outcome. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &Views Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus The Cleveland Plain Dealer had a review of the visiotextual art show I was involved in which might amuse those of you who remember Marcus Bales and his, to me, obsessive campaign against my attempts to taxonomize poetry (which I claim has never been obsessive--except in the eyes of those who hate analysis). I've heard very little about the show except that it came off, and looks, in photographs I've seen, quite impressive. The webzine, The Bridge, will be running a huge overview (by me) of it, which will include many of the pieces in it. So something good has come of it. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 29 10:02:12 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:02:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu><8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com><003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <003001c66b86$3418ad60$bbac3452@ANNY> Message-ID: <009c01c66b95$840161a0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> " . . . sorry, Bob, but it _was_ obsessive sometimes, but good that it had such a spectacular outcome." --Anny B. Well, there's a fine line between dedication and obsession. And, of course, I know from the inside how I felt about my taxonomy arguments. They were important to me, and sometimes I concentrated on them, but only for a while. I had many other interests. I think too many people (not you) mistake strong interest for obsession, perhaps because they don't have strong interests. Another definition of "obsession": "an interest in a subject greater than my own interest in that subject." I have to say I was irked by the review--I don't see what taxonomy had to do with the show. The reviewer should have said something about a few specific works in the show. Ironically, the show completely ignored taxonomy, as most of the works in it were not visual poems by my definition. I still don't quite know what Marcus was up to. He and I had a brief argument at my blog and he is no longer (apparently) speaking to me. It would seem he was using the show to demonstrate the valuelessness of my taxonomy while I participated in order to give various artists a chance to get their works seen. I'll stop here for fear of being seen as obsessed with the show. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff.newberry at gmail.com Sat Apr 29 11:45:54 2006 From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:45:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Forrest Gander Message-ID: <731bb17a0604290845v37341540n969df9def492bfe0@mail.gmail.com> I come to consider language by how it uses me. Poetry offers a transformative summons. It enacts my own felt need to engage emotional, aesthetic, and intellectual experience in forms neither self-serving nor predatory. [ . . . ] The great capacity of language is to bring us into proximity with one another. We fill with recognitions. In my own encounter with poetry, I approach the imagined possibility of an attentive mode of being. Shifting my perspective, poetry reconstructs my relationship with the world and to the future. I am torn awake. Forrest Gander, *A Faithful Existence: Reading Memory and Transcendence* (Shoemaker & Hoard: 2005) Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 29 12:11:47 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:11:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu><8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com> <003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <003001c66ba7$9df334f0$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Can you post the Plain Dealer review? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus The Cleveland Plain Dealer had a review of the visiotextual art show I was involved in which might amuse those of you who remember Marcus Bales and his, to me, obsessive campaign against my attempts to taxonomize poetry (which I claim has never been obsessive--except in the eyes of those who hate analysis). I've heard very little about the show except that it came off, and looks, in photographs I've seen, quite impressive. The webzine, The Bridge, will be running a huge overview (by me) of it, which will include many of the pieces in it. So something good has come of it. --Bob G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 29 12:43:15 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:43:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Forrest Gander References: <731bb17a0604290845v37341540n969df9def492bfe0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007b01c66bac$0378c070$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress> If it's not self-serving or predatory, what good is it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Newberry To: NewPoetry Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Forrest Gander I come to consider language by how it uses me. Poetry offers a transformative summons. It enacts my own felt need to engage emotional, aesthetic, and intellectual experience in forms neither self-serving nor predatory. [ . . . ] The great capacity of language is to bring us into proximity with one another. We fill with recognitions. In my own encounter with poetry, I approach the imagined possibility of an attentive mode of being. Shifting my perspective, poetry reconstructs my relationship with the world and to the future. I am torn awake. Forrest Gander, *A Faithful Existence: Reading Memory and Transcendence* (Shoemaker & Hoard: 2005) Jeff Newberry -- "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." --Miguel de Unamuno Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 29 13:00:38 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:00:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus--the Review References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu><8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com><003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <003001c66ba7$9df334f0$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <00dd01c66bae$70d756c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Poetry or art? Exhibit built on using words for visual effect Friday, April 28, 2006 Dan Tranberg Special to The Plain Dealer Poets have always pushed the conventions of language. In modern times, many of them have gone further than ever in exploring the potential of words to communicate visually as well as symbolically. In the 1950s, the term concrete poetry was coined to describe poetic writing in which the typographical arrangement of a poem's words or letters is integral to its creation. More recently, poets have become entwined with visual artists who use words or letters as the primary imagery in their art. A whole range of these kinds of activities can be seen in the group exhibition "Vispo! Blends and Bridges: An International Survey of Contemporary Visual Poetry and Related Art," on view through Friday, May 5, at an annex space to Gallery 324, located on the ground floor of The Galleria at Erieview, 1301 East Ninth St., Cleveland. The gallery will have a free reception from noon to 2 p.m. Saturday. According to Marcus Bales, director of Gallery 324, the management of the Galleria generously offered the annex space, formerly a clothing store, for the cost of keeping the lights on. Bales said the idea for the show arose through an ongoing argument with Bob Grumman, a Florida-based poet, critic and journalist who organized the show along with poet and publisher John Byrum and local artist Wendy Collin Sorin. "A lot of people come to poetry with a great deal of confusion," Bales said. "They want to know: Why is this poetry? What does this mean? How do I read this? How do I approach this?' "Grumman wants to create a kind of taxonomy of poetry. I'm against the very notion of a taxonomy of poetry on the grounds that poetry is an aesthetic field, not a scientific one." Looking over the vastly varied pieces in the show, which range from fliers and pamphlets to digital prints, sculptures and paintings, it's easy to see why someone would want to create some kind of system to categorize such a cacophony of works. But part of the fun is figuring out what it is that you're viewing. Some works fall squarely into the category of concrete poetry, turning letters, words or phrases into visual images. Others are more like collages, in which words and images accumulate into things larger than their parts. Others still are essentially word paintings -- images made up of words or letters that function like visual elements that may or may not be readable in the conventional way of written language. Bales said his argument with Grumman reached a climax when he said, "OK, I've got a space in Cleveland. Have a show." After enlisting Byrum and Sorin to help organize the show, word spread through e-mails and poetry Web sites. And international submissions came flooding in. The resulting show is so diverse that it's sure to arouse interest in even the most passive viewer. You even might find yourself taking sides in a heated debate about ever-changing notions of art and language. Call Gallery 324 at 216-780-1522. Tranberg is an artist and writer living in Cleveland. Art Matters is a column that runs weekly in Friday! covering the area art scene. To be considered for publication, items about shows or openings must be received three weeks in advance. Mail to Plain Dealer Art Critic, 1801 Superior Ave., Cleveland, OH 44114, or fax to 216-999-6269. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tad at opus40.org Sat Apr 29 13:16:12 2006 From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:16:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus--the Review References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu><8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com><003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><003001c66ba7$9df334f0$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress> <00dd01c66bae$70d756c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <00c601c66bb0$9db29360$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress> They don't do your argument justice. But all publicity is good. I hope you and Marcus patch things up. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Grumman To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus--the Review Poetry or art? Exhibit built on using words for visual effect Friday, April 28, 2006 Dan Tranberg Special to The Plain Dealer Poets have always pushed the conventions of language. In modern times, many of them have gone further than ever in exploring the potential of words to communicate visually as well as symbolically. In the 1950s, the term concrete poetry was coined to describe poetic writing in which the typographical arrangement of a poem's words or letters is integral to its creation. More recently, poets have become entwined with visual artists who use words or letters as the primary imagery in their art. A whole range of these kinds of activities can be seen in the group exhibition "Vispo! Blends and Bridges: An International Survey of Contemporary Visual Poetry and Related Art," on view through Friday, May 5, at an annex space to Gallery 324, located on the ground floor of The Galleria at Erieview, 1301 East Ninth St., Cleveland. The gallery will have a free reception from noon to 2 p.m. Saturday. According to Marcus Bales, director of Gallery 324, the management of the Galleria generously offered the annex space, formerly a clothing store, for the cost of keeping the lights on. Bales said the idea for the show arose through an ongoing argument with Bob Grumman, a Florida-based poet, critic and journalist who organized the show along with poet and publisher John Byrum and local artist Wendy Collin Sorin. "A lot of people come to poetry with a great deal of confusion," Bales said. "They want to know: Why is this poetry? What does this mean? How do I read this? How do I approach this?' "Grumman wants to create a kind of taxonomy of poetry. I'm against the very notion of a taxonomy of poetry on the grounds that poetry is an aesthetic field, not a scientific one." Looking over the vastly varied pieces in the show, which range from fliers and pamphlets to digital prints, sculptures and paintings, it's easy to see why someone would want to create some kind of system to categorize such a cacophony of works. But part of the fun is figuring out what it is that you're viewing. Some works fall squarely into the category of concrete poetry, turning letters, words or phrases into visual images. Others are more like collages, in which words and images accumulate into things larger than their parts. Others still are essentially word paintings -- images made up of words or letters that function like visual elements that may or may not be readable in the conventional way of written language. Bales said his argument with Grumman reached a climax when he said, "OK, I've got a space in Cleveland. Have a show." After enlisting Byrum and Sorin to help organize the show, word spread through e-mails and poetry Web sites. And international submissions came flooding in. The resulting show is so diverse that it's sure to arouse interest in even the most passive viewer. You even might find yourself taking sides in a heated debate about ever-changing notions of art and language. Call Gallery 324 at 216-780-1522. Tranberg is an artist and writer living in Cleveland. Art Matters is a column that runs weekly in Friday! covering the area art scene. To be considered for publication, items about shows or openings must be received three weeks in advance. Mail to Plain Dealer Art Critic, 1801 Superior Ave., Cleveland, OH 44114, or fax to 216-999-6269. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cervantes.james at gmail.com Sat Apr 29 13:39:03 2006 From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:39:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Forrest Gander In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0604290845v37341540n969df9def492bfe0@mail.gmail.com> References: <731bb17a0604290845v37341540n969df9def492bfe0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <648208b60604291039i7c81cb8ew95c361b2dce0cf2f@mail.gmail.com> Oh God! To be whipped around by life like that. Nothing but shreds left after being torn awake several mornings(moments) in succession. An Emmy for Forrest, please. - Jim On 4/29/06, Jeff Newberry wrote: > > I come to consider language by how it uses me. Poetry offers a > transformative summons. It enacts my own felt need to engage emotional, > aesthetic, and intellectual experience in forms neither self-serving nor > predatory. [ . . . ] The great capacity of language is to bring us into > proximity with one another. We fill with recognitions. In my own encounter > with poetry, I approach the imagined possibility of an attentive mode of > being. Shifting my perspective, poetry reconstructs my relationship with > the world and to the future. I am torn awake. > > Forrest Gander, *A Faithful Existence: Reading Memory and Transcendence* > (Shoemaker & Hoard: 2005) > > > > > Jeff Newberry > > -- > "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death." > --Miguel > de Unamuno > > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Apr 29 13:49:50 2006 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:49:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Return Of Marcus--the Review References: <731bb17a0604270816j5f65bff8x4db325d298cc5ef2@mail.gmail.com><44513197.2050901@medicine.nodak.edu><8C838D6E9AED557-258-1198D@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com><003d01c66b7a$acbc46c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><003001c66ba7$9df334f0$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress><00dd01c66bae$70d756c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> <00c601c66bb0$9db29360$6701a8c0@OldMoleExpress> Message-ID: <010801c66bb5$5059e8c0$7cb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> They don't do your argument justice. But all publicity is good. I hope you and Marcus patch things up. As far as I can tell, the reviewer didn't even describe my side, except to imply it was that classification of poetry could be of value (and that he agreed with me on that). But he didn't give Marcus to state his side very well--though maybe Marcus thought saying poetry isn't science was sufficient. My attitude toward Marcus is the same as ever--that I think he's wrong, etc., but that in the final analysis I don't care. I just e.mailed him about the review. Whether he'll reply or not, who knows. We continued our debate for a couple of days at my blog. As usual, I though he insulted me a lot more than I insulted him, but he may have thought otherwise. Anyway, he never denounced me, but just stopped e.mailing me. --Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 30 15:55:56 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:55:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Jazz Poems with a reading by Kevin Young Message-ID: <3dd.139d81c.3186704c@aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?S25vcGYgUG9ldHJ5?=" Subject: Jazz Poems with a reading by Kevin Young Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Size: 13700 URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 30 20:35:50 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:35:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Wormser off the grid Message-ID: <3cc.1f1036e.3186b1e6@aol.com> _http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/news/local/2683504.shtml_ (http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/news/local/2683504.shtml) Sunday, April 30, 2006 Retired poet laureate discovers challenges, pleasures in work a memoir coming out in the fall (from University Press of New England). It describes how Wormser and his family ``lived off the grid'' in Somerset County. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 30 20:44:12 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:44:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poets don't care if gas prices top 3 bucks a gallon... Message-ID: <3a9.22880eb.3186b3dc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:37:09 +0000 From: Edmund Hardy Subject: Re: Creeley poem re: this Creelay poem discussed last month, and how its got memorised - I've just been reading a pamphlet by Alec Finlay, I KNOW A POEM, composed from the Creeley poem as recollected by 7 people - my favourite bit: & why not & why not and why not buy why not buy a buy a goddamn why not get a goddamn goddam big car and big car & buy a goddamn big car - big car, a goddam big car lets get a goddamned big car and drive I Know a Man As I sd to my friend, because I am always talking, -- John, I sd, which was not his name, the darkness sur- rounds us, what can we do against it, or else, shall we & why not, buy a goddamn big car, drive, he sd, for christ's sake, look out where yr going. Note: Creeley found it amusing that his one poem that made it beyond the realm of poetry readers and students into the realm of pop culture is usually misread, as in the film title. He claimed that the I of the poem says the word "drive," the rest is John's. Makes it a more interesting poem (tho far from my favorite of Creeley's), but hard to imagine how even a pretty good reader would get this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edmundhardy at hotmail.com Sun Apr 30 20:56:20 2006 From: edmundhardy at hotmail.com (Edmund Hardy) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 00:56:20 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: poets don't care if gas prices top 3 bucks a gallon... In-Reply-To: <3a9.22880eb.3186b3dc@aol.com> Message-ID: i've just realised that the bit at the bottom following I Know A Man was Mark Weiss' original post to Poetryetc which started the thread last month. I didn't mean to reproduce it again, it got there by mistake, but just to clear that up. The 7 people remembering the poem includes Tom Raworth. Here's a second Creeley poem: The Flower I think I grow tensions like flowers in a wood where nobody goes. Each wound is perfect, encloses itself in a tiny imperceptible blossom, making pain. Pain is a flower like that one, like this one, like that one, like this one. This last stanza I love. Is it A Gertrude Stein like perception of "ones", a world of "ones", or is it an oscillation, or a pendulum of pain, from this pain to that? >From: JforJames at aol.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: poets don't care if gas prices top 3 bucks a gallon... >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:44:12 EDT > >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:37:09 +0000 >From: Edmund Hardy >Subject: Re: Creeley poem > >re: this Creelay poem discussed last month, and how its got memorised - > >I've just been reading a pamphlet by Alec Finlay, I KNOW A POEM, composed >from the Creeley poem as recollected by 7 people - my favourite bit: > >& why not >& why not >and why not buy >why not buy a >buy a goddamn >why not get a goddamn >goddam big car and >big car & >buy a goddamn big car - >big car, >a goddam big car >lets get a goddamned big car and >drive > > > > > >I Know a Man > >As I sd to my >friend, because I am >always talking, -- John, I > >sd, which was not his >name, the darkness sur- >rounds us, what > >can we do against >it, or else, shall we & >why not, buy a goddamn big car, > >drive, he sd, for >christ's sake, look >out where yr going. > > > >Note: Creeley found it amusing that his one poem that made it beyond >the realm of poetry readers and students into the realm of pop >culture is usually misread, as in the film title. He claimed that the >I of the poem says the word "drive," the rest is John's. Makes it a >more interesting poem (tho far from my favorite of Creeley's), but >hard to imagine how even a pretty good reader would get this. > From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 30 21:21:30 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:21:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] CPR's Best Poetry Books 2005 Message-ID: <2ae.35cae47.3186bc9a@aol.com> In a message dated 4/27/2006 7:38:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes: _http://www.cprw.com/books05.htm_ (http://www.cprw.com/books05.htm) No surprises here, I don't think. Nope, the selectors need to get out more. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 30 21:30:44 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:30:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] CPR's Best Poetry Books 2005 Message-ID: <417.3c949e.3186bec4@aol.com> Best Criticism: The Undiscovered Country by William Logan (Columbia University Press) Runners-Up: A Poet?s Prose: Selected Essays of Louise Bogan, edited by Mary Kinzie (Swallow Press). Break, Blow, Burn: Camille Paglia Reads Forty-three of the World's Best Poems (Pantheon). The Wounded Surgeon by Adam Kirsch (Norton). William Logan edged the competition with his fecundity: this is his fourth collection of criticism in seven years. Every one of them is worth owning and, collectively, they stand as the most complete analysis of contemporary English-language poets that we are likely to have. Logan is constantly reprimanded for his hard-man style; it's time he was praised for the virtues of his vices. -- This statement reminds me of the old joke: Q: Mr. Logan, why do you keep hitting yourself in the head with poetry books. A: Because it feels so good when I stop. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Apr 30 22:58:46 2006 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:58:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] booze-swilling, womanizing poet Message-ID: <2c6.75678aa.3186d366@aol.com> _http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/14453831.htm_ (http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/14453831.htm) Posted on Fri, Apr. 28, KAREN HERSHENSON: CINERAMA Dillon filling shoes of boozing poet in 'Factotum' Matt Dillon in "Factotum." Audio: Actor Matt Dillon talks about "Crash" (MP3) YOU'VE GOT to hand it to Matt Dillon -- the guy doesn't shy away from difficult roles. The creepy stalker boyfriend with oversized teeth in "There's Something About Mary." The slimy racist cop in "Crash. And now as the alter-ego of Charles Bukowski, the booze-swilling, womanizing author. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: