From clitophon at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  1 09:07:01 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 06:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vonnegut
In-Reply-To: <fde503480509301621l5bfb9852je89df231ac415a26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051001130701.8772.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>

taking revenge on ones parents hardly seems an
appropriate motive for adult conduct.  What did they
do to Vonnegut to make him feel that way?  I write and
paint but I realise that the people around me really
feel  that its not the done thing.  Going out,
bringing home cash, having babies is...
really, I;m glad to be happy but art is not a
financial proposition.
--- Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:

> I recognise that all too well.
> 
> On 9/30/05, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just read on Tom Beckett's Shadows Within Shadows
> >
>
http://worderos.blogspot.com/2005/09/kurt-vonnegut.html
> >
> > Kurt Vonnegut
> >
> >
> > I picked up Kurt Vonnegut's new book today. It's
> called A Man without a
> > Country (Seven Stories Press, 2005).
> >
> > Check out this passage:
> >
> > If you want to really hurt your parents, and you
> don't have the nerve to be
> > gay, the least you can do is go into the arts. I'm
> not kidding. The arts are
> > not a way to make a living. They are a very human
> way of making life more
> > bearable. Practicing an art, no matter how well or
> badly, is a way to make
> > your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the
> shower. Dance to the radio.
> > Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a
> lousy poem. Do it as well as
> > you possibly can. You will get an enormous reward.
> You will have created
> > something.
> >
> >
> >  ________________________________
> >
> > Anny Ballardini
> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> >
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> > My Bror is sick
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.badstep.net/
> http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  2 05:55:00 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:55:00 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] olds
References: <ADFF2498DA44854E80CC0458789B866502B635D0@bobroberts.davidson.edu>
Message-ID: <007701c5c737$5aba3a90$ef2bb750@ANNY>

Maybe I should explain better what I like in this poem. 

She was able to reach in simple words what science is not able to define and man tried through an entire religious establishment to explain: the complexity of our personal spheres. That Olds talks of her father (in my case dearest, the poem thus becomes through my emotional projections more involving), or of her childhood, or of her body, or of her cat

(I remember for example when my cat was going to die, I had this repetitive image of a rolling shutter being pulled down with a shivering grinding gravel sound that shut off part of my self)

any metaphorical image she needs or uses to express this fundamental thought is of little interest to me in the moment in which I consider the quality of the poem and of its supporting structure. From this statement you can understand what I am looking for in a poem and what kind of poetry I prefer to others.

(I am back to this because Doctor Dictionary sent in _nadir_ that with its opposing zenith was quoted under this thread - and remembered I wanted to make clear what I wished to say.)
 
From: "Parker, Alan Michael" <amparker at davidson.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 4:08 PM


> 
> Good talk on Olds. Thanks for helping my weekend.
> 
> My concern here is not "greatness" or "goodness" or even "goodness gracious," but that Olds has a sensibility (inclination? philosophical blindspot?) that defaults to emotion. All drama then becomes merely a function of feeling--which seems to me a place her poem has usually begun, and not a writing process rife with discovery. Here's an example of what I mean, from a poem I like and from an Olds book I consider among her best.
> 
> THE PULLING
> 
> Every hour, now, he is changing,
> shedding some old ability.
> Knees up, body tin-colored,
> hair black and grey, thick with
> grease like ritual unguent, my father
> moves, hour by hour, head-first,
> toward death, I sense every inch of him moving
> through me toward it, the way each child
> moved, slowly, down through my body,
> as if I were God feeling the rivers
> pulling steadily through me, and the earth
> pressing through, the universe
> itself hauled through me heavily and easily,
> drawn through my body like a napkin through a ring--
> as if my father could live and die
> safely inside me.
> 
> - Sharon Olds, _The Father_ (6)
> 
> The poem does well by its rhetoric--that long second sentence accretes powerfully--and refuses the easy banality of its spoken grief, to choose metaphor and meaning-making instead. The simile's flat-out stunning. As for loose tetrameter, I'm less convinced of its effectiveness (or usefulness) or even dominance, but that may well be another conversation.
> 
> What bugs me: the megalomania that fuses the father and the Father into a kind of synecdoche, the ease with which the speaker knows all (another peeve about her work, her knowingness), and most of all, the need to give us the final two lines rather than let the pain and gorgeousness of the simile be all, enough. If the charge is one of narcissism, I might agree, upon reading this poem: the final two lines seem to me an advancing of the poet's emotions at the expense of the poem.
> 
> Cheers.
> AMP
> 
> Alan Michael Parker
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  2 06:06:07 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 12:06:07 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: A new interview
Message-ID: <009a01c5c738$e8860380$ef2bb750@ANNY>

And some shameless (not really) promotion, thank you for your patience, 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lance Phillips" <lerphillips at earthlink.net>
To: <coursingpublicthought at earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: A new interview


> Hello all, 
> 
> There's a new interview up at Here Comes Everybody
> (http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com).  It's Anny Ballardini.  I hope
> you all will have a look.  Take care, 
> 
> Lance
> 
> (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
> Lance Phillips
> Fiction Project:  http://www.trilogyplus1.blogspot.com
> Blog:  http://lancephillips.blogspot.com 
> Writers on writing:  http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com
> Books:
> Corpus  Socius (Ahsahta Press) ISBN 0-916272-71-0
> http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/phillips.htm
> Cur aliquid vidi (Ahsahta Press) ISBN 0-916272-82-6
> http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/phillips2.htm
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> 
> 
>



From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct  2 13:53:02 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:53:02 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] olds
References: <ADFF2498DA44854E80CC0458789B866502B635D0@bobroberts.davidson.edu>
	<007701c5c737$5aba3a90$ef2bb750@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003801c5c77a$229d9f60$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I'm more of Alan's mind. I start off liking the poem, and then find myself saying "Oh, lord, does everything have to be about her?"
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] olds


  Maybe I should explain better what I like in this poem. 

  She was able to reach in simple words what science is not able to define and man tried through an entire religious establishment to explain: the complexity of our personal spheres. That Olds talks of her father (in my case dearest, the poem thus becomes through my emotional projections more involving), or of her childhood, or of her body, or of her cat

  (I remember for example when my cat was going to die, I had this repetitive image of a rolling shutter being pulled down with a shivering grinding gravel sound that shut off part of my self)

  any metaphorical image she needs or uses to express this fundamental thought is of little interest to me in the moment in which I consider the quality of the poem and of its supporting structure. From this statement you can understand what I am looking for in a poem and what kind of poetry I prefer to others.

  (I am back to this because Doctor Dictionary sent in _nadir_ that with its opposing zenith was quoted under this thread - and remembered I wanted to make clear what I wished to say.)

  From: "Parker, Alan Michael" <amparker at davidson.edu>
  Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 4:08 PM


  > 
  > Good talk on Olds. Thanks for helping my weekend.
  > 
  > My concern here is not "greatness" or "goodness" or even "goodness gracious," but that Olds has a sensibility (inclination? philosophical blindspot?) that defaults to emotion. All drama then becomes merely a function of feeling--which seems to me a place her poem has usually begun, and not a writing process rife with discovery. Here's an example of what I mean, from a poem I like and from an Olds book I consider among her best.
  > 
  > THE PULLING
  > 
  > Every hour, now, he is changing,
  > shedding some old ability.
  > Knees up, body tin-colored,
  > hair black and grey, thick with
  > grease like ritual unguent, my father
  > moves, hour by hour, head-first,
  > toward death, I sense every inch of him moving
  > through me toward it, the way each child
  > moved, slowly, down through my body,
  > as if I were God feeling the rivers
  > pulling steadily through me, and the earth
  > pressing through, the universe
  > itself hauled through me heavily and easily,
  > drawn through my body like a napkin through a ring--
  > as if my father could live and die
  > safely inside me.
  > 
  > - Sharon Olds, _The Father_ (6)
  > 
  > The poem does well by its rhetoric--that long second sentence accretes powerfully--and refuses the easy banality of its spoken grief, to choose metaphor and meaning-making instead. The simile's flat-out stunning. As for loose tetrameter, I'm less convinced of its effectiveness (or usefulness) or even dominance, but that may well be another conversation.
  > 
  > What bugs me: the megalomania that fuses the father and the Father into a kind of synecdoche, the ease with which the speaker knows all (another peeve about her work, her knowingness), and most of all, the need to give us the final two lines rather than let the pain and gorgeousness of the simile be all, enough. If the charge is one of narcissism, I might agree, upon reading this poem: the final two lines seem to me an advancing of the poet's emotions at the expense of the poem.
  > 
  > Cheers.
  > AMP
  > 
  > Alan Michael Parker



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct  2 13:53:51 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:53:51 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: A new interview
References: <009a01c5c738$e8860380$ef2bb750@ANNY>
Message-ID: <004201c5c77a$3ff62280$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Great interview. And I've bookmarked the site.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
To: "New Poetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 6:06 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: A new interview


> And some shameless (not really) promotion, thank you for your patience, 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lance Phillips" <lerphillips at earthlink.net>
> To: <coursingpublicthought at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:20 AM
> Subject: A new interview
> 
> 
>> Hello all, 
>> 
>> There's a new interview up at Here Comes Everybody
>> (http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com).  It's Anny Ballardini.  I hope
>> you all will have a look.  Take care, 
>> 
>> Lance
>> 
>> (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>> Lance Phillips
>> Fiction Project:  http://www.trilogyplus1.blogspot.com
>> Blog:  http://lancephillips.blogspot.com 
>> Writers on writing:  http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com
>> Books:
>> Corpus  Socius (Ahsahta Press) ISBN 0-916272-71-0
>> http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/phillips.htm
>> Cur aliquid vidi (Ahsahta Press) ISBN 0-916272-82-6
>> http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/phillips2.htm
>> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
>> 
>> 
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  2 14:05:55 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:05:55 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] olds
References: <ADFF2498DA44854E80CC0458789B866502B635D0@bobroberts.davidson.edu><007701c5c737$5aba3a90$ef2bb750@ANNY>
	<003801c5c77a$229d9f60$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <01f801c5c77b$ef41d120$52b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

>I'm more of Alan's mind. I start off liking the poem, and >then find myself saying "Oh, lord, does everything have to >be about her?"

But, Mole, she's talking about lsoing a father.  How can it not be about her?

--Bob G., Defender of the Fully-Accepted
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct  2 14:35:26 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:35:26 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] olds
References: <ADFF2498DA44854E80CC0458789B866502B635D0@bobroberts.davidson.edu><007701c5c737$5aba3a90$ef2bb750@ANNY><003801c5c77a$229d9f60$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<01f801c5c77b$ef41d120$52b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <000001c5c781$c98f5690$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

My point exactly.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] olds


  >I'm more of Alan's mind. I start off liking the poem, and >then find myself saying "Oh, lord, does everything have to >be about her?"

  But, Mole, she's talking about lsoing a father.  How can it not be about her?

  --Bob G., Defender of the Fully-Accepted


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  2 15:39:16 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:39:16 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Late Blooming
Message-ID: <202.b727cf6.30719164@aol.com>

_http://www.nysun.com/article/20648_ (http://www.nysun.com/article/20648) 
 
The Lazy Gardener
Books
 
By ADAM KIRSCH - Staff Reporter of the Sun
September 28, 2005
 
It has been a long time since Harold Bloom produced a book with the  density, 
crazed though it was, of "The Anxiety of Influence," his  reputation-making 
1973 study. Ever since his polemical best seller "The Western  Canon" (1994), 
he has devoted himself instead to book-of-the-month-club subjects  like 
"Genius" and "How To Read and Why."
 
In spite of his popularity and productivity, however, Mr. Bloom remains an  
odd candidate for the mantle of Mortimer Adler, Daniel Boorstin, and Jacques  
Barzun. He completely lacks the good teacher's humility before his subject and  
the good popularizer's ability to make a complex subject  clear.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  2 18:12:33 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 18:12:33 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] anniversary this week: 'American poetry was changed
	forever' 
Message-ID: <e0.1d1e884e.3071b551@aol.com>

_http://www.pw.org/mag/0509/newsmckanic.htm_ 
(http://www.pw.org/mag/0509/newsmckanic.htm) 
Echoes  of Allen Ginsberg?s ?Howl?
By Arlene McKanic  
 
On October 7, 1955, six poets gave a public reading at the Six Gallery, a  
converted auto garage on Fillmore Street, in San Francisco, that is still  
considered one of the most important events in twentieth-century American  poetry. 
Michael McClure, Allen Ginsberg, Gary Snyder, and Philip Whalen all read  new 
poems, and Philip Lamantia read the work of John Hoffman, who had recently  
died of a drug overdose. The event was hosted by poet Kenneth Rexroth, who was  
nearly fifty and eager to show off the talents of his young, and heretofore  
unknown, friends. There were about a hundred and fifty people in the audience,  
including Jack Kerouac, who brought wine and shouted encouragement to the  
readers. Ginsberg, who was twenty-nine at the time, was next to last. When he  
launched into the long, mad, incantatory poem titled ?Howl,? some say American 
 poetry was changed forever. 
 
 
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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 07:18:24 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 04:18:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <20051003111824.78968.qmail@web31804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Renee Gladman
and The Activist

Ubuweb and film

Thoughts on Dylan

Eleni Sikelianos:
Lovers & other numbers

Rodrigo Toscano:
Partisans

Maxine Chernoff
Among the Names

What is a lap?
The fold in Rachel Blau DuPlessis? Drafts

No Direction Home:
Bob Dylan & the crafting of lyrics

?Andrew Cordier / simpleton? ?
Meaning in David Melnick?s Eclogs

David Melnick?s ?Hasty Fields?

Reading Eclogs by David Melnick

Richard Nixon & Rachel Loden:
Follow the dark side

My Picayune Anxiety Room
by the late Marc Kuykendall

Robert Bolano & the art of extreme consequences

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct  3 08:55:40 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:55:40 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] anniversary this week: 'American poetry was
	changedforever' 
References: <e0.1d1e884e.3071b551@aol.com>
Message-ID: <015701c5c819$c26edc30$21ae3252@ANNY>

Doesn't this seem wonderful?

Listen to this:

On October 7, 2005, several poets used to give public comments on the New Poetry List, a converted mailing system in the garage of the old-service net, still valued as one of the most important gatherings of the twenty-first century American poetry. James Finnegan, listowner, Tad Richards, ...

smilies from a rainy and chilly Monday,
Anny Ballardini
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:12 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] anniversary this week: 'American poetry was changedforever' 


  http://www.pw.org/mag/0509/newsmckanic.htm
  Echoes of Allen Ginsberg?s ?Howl?
  By Arlene McKanic  

  On October 7, 1955, six poets gave a public reading at the Six Gallery, a converted auto garage on Fillmore Street, in San Francisco, that is still considered one of the most important events in twentieth-century American poetry. Michael McClure, Allen Ginsberg, Gary Snyder, and Philip Whalen all read new poems, and Philip Lamantia read the work of John Hoffman, who had recently died of a drug overdose. The event was hosted by poet Kenneth Rexroth, who was nearly fifty and eager to show off the talents of his young, and heretofore unknown, friends. There were about a hundred and fifty people in the audience, including Jack Kerouac, who brought wine and shouted encouragement to the readers. Ginsberg, who was twenty-nine at the time, was next to last. When he launched into the long, mad, incantatory poem titled ?Howl,? some say American poetry was changed forever. 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct  3 10:37:19 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:37:19 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] August Wilson
References: <e0.1d1e884e.3071b551@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00b501c5c827$f5ece530$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

A staggering loss for American letters. August Wilson dead at 60.

Tad
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From snakecharmer at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 10:58:16 2005
From: snakecharmer at gmail.com (Donna Casinghino)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:58:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] August Wilson
In-Reply-To: <00b501c5c827$f5ece530$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <e0.1d1e884e.3071b551@aol.com>
	<00b501c5c827$f5ece530$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <33abf2750510030758jabf57c0m3be9f96d1f9fc45c@mail.gmail.com>

More info here:
 http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/12804493.htm

 On 10/3/05, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
> ? A staggering loss for American letters. August Wilson dead at 60.
>  Tad
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
-------------------------------------------------
Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under 't. --Macbeth I:v
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Oct  3 12:42:11 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:42:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fiction reading:  Lynda Schor & Kenneth Bernard
Message-ID: <02A7B8FF-7DBD-4271-9E1F-FF52A2520690@earthlink.net>


**************************
Lynda Schor & Kenneth Bernard

will be reading fiction
for The Brooklyn Rail

Tuesday, October 18th at 7:00 p.m.

The Brooklyn Public Library
at Grand Army Plaza

Brooklyn, New York

2nd-floor auditorium

**refreshments**

*************************


Hal           Serving the tristate area.

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Oct  4 11:46:15 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:46:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jim Moore
In-Reply-To: <01dd01c5c860$8b93c4e0$c764a8c0@powerspec>
Message-ID: <BF680DF7.1F13%grahamd@ripon.edu>


------ Forwarded Message
From: Milkweed Webmaster <webmaster at milkweed.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:22:22 -0500
To: everse <everse at milkweed.org>
Subject: Everse for October 3, 2005

What It's Like Here

It was nothing unusual. Just a woman, bare-knuckled
on a cold day, pushing an empty grocery cart up University toward hell.
You see it all the time on this planet of theirs.
I had been to what they call a movie. And I was what they call
happy. As you know, fate has given me a wife, beloved to me.
Yes, beloved is a thing they understand. Right now she is playing come
with the dog while I write this report. Sometimes she says to me,
"You are really from another planet!" I just hold my tongue.
 
There is hell around every corner here. There are people who are paid well
to ruin the lives of others. There are people strapped down to chairs, then
a button is pushed.
Smoke rises sometimes off their bodies before they die. I do not tell you
this 
to shock you, but because you need to know there are planets
where such things happen. Even so, there is happiness
of a kind you would recognize. Right now there is snow,
a thing that divides itself up into many pieces,
then falls from the sky until all ugliness is covered.
"Beautiful day, isn't it," people say and it's not a question.
 
My question is, "Where do I go from here? What do you want of me?
Why was I born on this planet?" You'll want to know, did I stop
and help the lady. I did not. And you'll want to know
what does "beloved" mean, if not that. I don't know. I only breathe
one breath at a time. Not like you who breathe so many lives
at once. We drove home, my beloved and I. The movie?
It was called Men of Honor, a kind of dream
of how things should be. We didn't like it.
Nothing about it rang true. But we held hands anyway,
then went out into the bare-knuckled cold, described above.

--Jim Moore

-------------------------------------
 
Jim Moore is the author of six collections of poetry, including Lightning at
Dinner, The Freedom of History, and The Long Experience of Love. His poems
have appeared in American Poetry Review, the Nation, the New Yorker, the
Paris Review, the Threepenny Review, the Pushcart Prize Anthology, and in
many other magazines and anthologies.  Moore has received numerous awards
and fellowships from the Bush Foundation, the Loft, the McKnight Foundation,
and the Minnesota State Arts Board. He teaches at Hamline University in
Saint Paul, Minnesota, and at the Colorado College in Colorado Springs, as
well as online through the University of Minnesota Split Rock Arts Program.
He is married to the photographer JoAnn Verburg.  They live in Saint Paul,
Minnesota and Spoleto, Italy.
 
-------------------------------------
 
Jim Moore will be signing Lightning at Dinner at the Twin Cities Book
Festival, October 15th at Minneapolis Community and Technical College. Join
Jim and a host of other authors at the fifth annual literary festival. For
more information, go to www.raintaxi.com/bookfest
<http://www.raintaxi.com/bookfest> .
 
-------------------------------------
 
"What It?s Like Here" copyright (c) 2005 by Jim Moore.  From Lightning at
Dinner.  Used with the permission of Graywolf Press (www.graywolfpress.org
<http://www.graywolfpress.org> ).
 
-------------------------------------
 
E-verse is a free service presented by Milkweed Editions
(http://www.milkweed.org). <http://www.milkweed.org).>  For more information
or to unsubscribe, please e-mail us at webmaster at milkweed.org.

Sign up a friend for e-verse at www.milkweed.org/e-verse.html
<http://www.milkweed.org/e-verse.html>
 
Enjoy your week!
 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From wwmorgan at ilstu.edu  Tue Oct  4 15:03:25 2005
From: wwmorgan at ilstu.edu (Bill Morgan)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:03:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Andrew Motion Contact Information
In-Reply-To: <1a8.3f9132d6.30646006@aol.com>
References: <1a8.3f9132d6.30646006@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20051004140104.036eb8b0@mail.ilstu.edu>

	Does anyone on the list know how to contact Andrew Motion without going 
through his agent, publicist, or publisher?  If you have his contact 
information and are willing to share it, please write me backchannel: 
wwmorgan at ilstu.edu

								Bill Morgan




From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Oct  4 21:16:29 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:16:29 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] nipsey r.i.p.
Message-ID: <104.6a556f03.3074836d@aol.com>

http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2005/10/04/Arts/nipsey_russell20051004.h
tml?ref=rss
'Poet laureate of tv' Nipsey Russell dead
Last Updated Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:21:27 EDT
CBC Arts 
 The "poet laureate of television" has died. Comedian Nipsey Russell, known 
for delivering a signature four-line verse during appearances on talk shows and 
game shows, was 80.
 
 
Nipsey Russell. (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)  
Russell died Sunday afternoon at Lenox Hill Hospital at age 80, said his 
longtime manager Joseph Rapp. He had been suffering from cancer. 
 
Widely known for his television career, including appearances on The Dean 
Martin Show, Hollywood Squares, The $50,000 Pyramid, and The Match Game, Russell 
also received critical acclaim for his role as the Tin Man in the 1978 film 
version of The Wiz.
 
Born in Atlanta, he settled in New York after graduating from the University 
of Cincinnati and serving as an Army captain in Europe during World War II, 
Rapp said. 
 
Russell launched his television career in 1961 as Officer Anderson in the 
television series Car 54, Where are You? He also appeared in the 1994 film 
version. 
 
But he will forever be remembered for his timely poetry.
 
Russell told the Los Angeles Times in 1993 that writing poems "is very simple 
to do.... I start with the joke line and write backward."
 
Some examples: 
 
 
"The opposite of pro is con, that fact is clearly seen, if progress means 
move forward, then what does Congress mean?"
 
 
"If you owe too much on American Express, and your Diner's Club notes are too 
hard, take a loan on your Visa, and pay it off with your MasterCard!"
 
Russell leaves no survivors.
 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Oct  4 21:20:10 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:20:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Scots buck cheap image
Message-ID: <1b8.1cea7c9c.3074844a@aol.com>

http://www.sundayherald.com/52062
Major new Scottish poetry prize is launched
 
By Senay Boztas, Arts Correspondent
 
Award- winning Scottish poet Don Paterson launched Scotland?s first major 
national poetry prize yesterday at the Scottish Book Town Festival in Wigtown.
Paterson, who believes that the prize will ?stimulate the poetry economy and 
give it some profile?, will be the main judge of the Wigtown Poetry 
Competition.
 
The top prize, the largest in Scotland, will be ?2000, with a runner-up award 
of ?1000, and then ?500 for third place. There will be 10 awards of ?50, and 
another award of ?1000 for the best poem written in Gaelic, to be judged by 
the poet Aonghas Macneacail.
 
Paterson said: ?The thing about poetry is that once you have learned a poem, 
you have it inside you forever and that is why it is special.?
 
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 21:35:35 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:35:35 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Jennifer Knox
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510041835k45dd3ddas72784eb9fdf8ace3@mail.gmail.com>

Just got home from seeing Shanna Compton, Danielle Pafunda, and Jennifer
Knox read at the Vox Reading Series here in Athens, Georgia. Jennifer Knox
was easily the best reader tonight. Witty and intelligent, her poems are at
once entertaining and thought-provoking. I enjoyed the reading a lot, but
the air conditioning kept me from hearing Shanna Compton very well.
 Anyway, I've pasted a couple of Jennifer Knox's poems from tonight's
reading. I hope that you enjoy:
 Hot Ass Poem
Jennifer Knox
 Hey check out the ass on that guy he's got a really hot ass I'd like to see
his ass naked with his hot naked ass Hey check out her hot ass that chick's
got a hot ass she's a red hot ass chick I want to touch it Hey check out the
ass on that old man thats one hot old man ass look at his ass his ass his
old man ass Hey check out that dog's ass wow that dog's ass is hot that
dog's got a hot dog ass I want to squeeze that dog's hot dog ass like a ball
but a hot ball a hot ass ball Hey check out the ass on that bird how's a
bird get a hot ass like that that's one hot ass bird ass I want to put that
bird's hot ass in my mouth and swish it around and around and around Hey
check out the ass on that bike damn that bike's ass it h-o-t you ever see a
bike with an ass that hot I want to put my hot ass on that bike's hot ass
and make a double hot ass bike Hey check out that building it's got a really
really really hot ass and the doorman and the ladies in the informatiom
booth and the guy in the elevator got themselves a butt load of hot ass I
want to wrap my arms around the whole hot ass building and squeeze myself
right through its hot ass and out the other side I want to get me a hot ass
piece of all 86 floors of hot hot hot hot ass!
from *Great American Prose Poems: from Poe to the Present*. Ed., David
Lehman. New York: Scribner, 2003

 The Laws of Probability in Levittown
Jennifer L. Knox

I've been smoking so much pot lately,
I figure out what my poems are going to do
before I write them, which means when I finally
sit down in front of the typewriter...well...you know...

I moved back in with my parents,
and I'm getting really good at watching TV.
Soon as I saw the housewife last night on "Inevitable Justice,"
I knew her husband was the killer and I told her so and I was right.

Remember whenever Jamie Lee Curtis would come on
TV and we'd yell, Hermaphrodite! all happy? I maintain
her father, Tony, is an American treasure, and have prepared a mental
list of examples why, so should we happen to meet again, my shit's backed
up.

There were too many
therapists in the city--97% of all therapists
are certifiable ding-dongs by nature which is fine
if you live in Platteville, Nebraska, where there's only

like three therapists in the entire town
(the odds are in your favor) but if 10,000
therapists are lurching around the streets, chances are
1,000 will be 100% batshit nuts.

I had a choice between watching
Robert Frost talking about his backyard
on *Large American Voices* and Farrah Fawcett on *True Hollyweird.*
I chose Farrah, because I knew what was going to happen and I was right.

Here's something I've been trying
to work in: 10 rations = 1 decoration.
What do you think? 10 monologues = 5 dialogues,
10 millipedes = 1 centipede, .000001 fish = 1 microfiche...

I've got a million of those.
I wrote them down, back when I was
writing things down. But I've been thinking I should
tip the Dominoes kid more than a buck on 14. Should I--
 from *A Gringo Like Me*, Soft Skull Press, 2005
    Jeff Newberry
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Oct  5 12:59:56 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
Message-ID: <BF6970BC.1F79%grahamd@ripon.edu>



A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the assembled experts
here.

What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
particular?



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Wed Oct  5 14:13:24 2005
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:13:24 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
Message-ID: <103.6b3f6a00.307571c4@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/5/2005 12:00:21 PM Central Daylight Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
> recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the assembled experts
> here.
> 
> What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
> particular?
> 
I still like Ciardi's the best for teaching.  Readable for students, with 
great notes and illustrations.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Oct  5 14:50:50 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:50:50 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
References: <103.6b3f6a00.307571c4@cs.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c5c9dd$b52874d0$c5af3452@ANNY>

I am sorry I cannot help. I have it in Italian and I am not looking forward to read it also in English.


  From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:13 PM


  In a message dated 10/5/2005 12:00:21 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 


    A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
    recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the assembled experts
    here.

    What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
    particular?


  I still like Ciardi's the best for teaching.  Readable for students, with great notes and illustrations. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Wed Oct  5 08:09:07 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:09:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
In-Reply-To: <103.6b3f6a00.307571c4@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BF692C93.A369%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/5/05 1:13 PM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 10/5/2005 12:00:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
> grahamd at ripon.edu writes:
>> 
>> A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
>> recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the assembled experts
>> here.
>> 
>> What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
>> particular?
> 
> I still like Ciardi's the best for teaching.  Readable for students, with
> great notes and illustrations.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

Hey, Sam. Welcome back to the list. Are you back in Beaumont or winging it
from a computer somewhere else?  Hope your new house is okay. You must have
had a small taste of the Inferno getting out of Beaumont before Rita.

Paul
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From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu  Wed Oct  5 16:04:13 2005
From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:04:13 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Valparaiso Poetry Review: New Issue
In-Reply-To: <BF692C93.A369%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
Message-ID: <SIMEON.10510051513.A@muahost.valpo.edu>


Announcement: Publication of the Fall/Winter 2005-2006 issue of 
Valparaiso Poetry Review


The Fall/Winter 2005-2006 issue of Valparaiso Poetry Review is 
now available at the following url:

http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/


*Fall/Winter 2005-2006 Issue Contents*

Featured Poet: Kevin Pilkington? 

Additional Poets: Herman Asarnow, Barry Ballard, Annette Basalyga, 
Ronda Broatch, T. Alan Broughton, Rebecca Dunham, Pamela Gemin, 
David Graham, David Joseph, Laurence Lieberman, Joey Nicoletti, 
Martin Ott, Lex Runciman, Deema K. Shehabi, Lee Slonimsky, Jeanine 
Stevens, Steven Winn, Fredrick Zydek

Interview: Linda Simone interviews Kevin Pilkington

Essay: David Graham on "The Ultra-Talk Poem & Mark Halliday"

Poets Reviewed: Patricia Fargnoli, Donald Justice, Campbell McGrath, 
Susan Terris

Cover Art Commentary: Gregg Hertzlieb on Robert Cottingham

As always, the new issue includes a list of recently received and 
recommended books of poetry or poetics, as well as guidelines for 
submissions.  All past issues of VPR and a complete archive of poems, 
essays, interviews, reviews, and commentary on art remain available 
for reading.

--------------------------------------------------

Edward Byrne
Department of English
322 Huegli Hall
Valparaiso University
Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493

E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu
http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/

Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review
E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu
http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/
Office Phone: (219) 464-5278
Fax: (219) 464-5511

--------------------------------------------------




From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Wed Oct  5 17:49:12 2005
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:49:12 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
Message-ID: <68.5f546f49.3075a458@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/5/2005 2:13:56 PM Central Daylight Time, 
paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: 
> 
> Hey, Sam. Welcome back to the list. Are you back in Beaumont or winging it 
> from a computer somewhere else?  Hope your new house is okay. You must have 
> had a small taste of the Inferno getting out of Beaumont before Rita.
> 
> Paul 
> 
We got back Friday.  House took some water in two rooms (my study and 
library) and we lost shingles and fences.  Otherwise, we were lucky.  Power came back 
on Saturday.  Electricity is good.  The town is coming back to life but was a 
real mess--trees down everywhere, many on houses.
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From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Thu Oct  6 04:29:45 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 03:29:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
In-Reply-To: <68.5f546f49.3075a458@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BF6A4AA9.A37D%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/5/05 4:49 PM, "Rsgwynn1 at cs.com" <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 10/5/2005 2:13:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
> paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:
>> 
> Hey, Sam. Welcome back to the list. Are you back in Beaumont or winging it
> from a computer somewhere else?  Hope your new house is okay. You must have
> had a small taste of the Inferno getting out of Beaumont before Rita.
> 
> Paul 
> 
> We got back Friday.  House took some water in two rooms (my study and library)
> and we lost shingles and fences.  Otherwise, we were lucky.  Power came back
> on Saturday.  Electricity is good.  The town is coming back to life but was a
> real mess--trees down everywhere, many on houses.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

Good to hear the city?s up and running and that your damage wasn?t too bad.
The pictures of Beaumont on TV had me worrying.

Paul
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Oct  6 16:17:40 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:17:40 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Angela Shaw
Message-ID: <007201c5cab3$00b66f80$afaf3852@ANNY>

Children in a Field

They don't wade in so much as they are taken. 
Deep in the day, in the deep of the field, 
every current in the grasses whispers hurry 
hurry, every yellow spreads its perfume 
like a rumor, impelling them further on. 
It is the way of girls. It is the sway 
of their dresses in the summer trance-- 
light, their bare calves already far-gone 
in green. What songs will they follow? 
Whatever the wood warbles, whatever storm 
or harm the border promises, whatever 
calm. Let them go. Let them go traceless 
through the high grass and into the willow-- 
blur, traceless across the lean blue glint 
of the river, to the long dark bodies 
of the conifers, and over the welcoming 
threshold of nightfall. 


Angela Shaw


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reprinted from "Poetry," September, 2004, Vol. 184, No. 5, by permission of the author. Poem copyright (c) 2004 by Angela Shaw. This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. This column does not accept unsolicited poetry.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 20:02:24 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:02:24 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
Message-ID: <82.322024e1.30771510@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/5/2005 2:51:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

I am sorry I cannot help. I have it in Italian and I am not  looking forward 
to read it also in English.


English will torture Dante's Inferno into submission, Anny. You can't  
resist...surrender
Dorothy (or Beatrix)
Finnegan
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 20:18:57 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:18:57 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Valparaiso Poetry Review: New Issue
Message-ID: <15d.5a9d55e4.307718f1@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/5/2005 4:04:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu writes:
 
Essay:  David Graham on "The Ultra-Talk Poem & Mark  Halliday"




David, I see you can't just shut up about Halliday.
Finnegan


 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 10:07:42 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:07:42 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poets House Fall Courses 
Message-ID: <194.48c1e777.3077db2e@aol.com>

Subj: Poets House Fall Courses  
Date: 10/6/2005 7:45:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time 
From: announce at poetshouse.org 
  
There's still time to act!
 
 October 11: Registration Deadline: Six-week Course: Making the Urban Poetic 
October 11: Application Deadline: Master Class with Kathleen Fraser 
October 14: Application Deadline: Master Class with C. S. Giscombe
 
_________________________________________________________  
 
Six-week Course -- Registration (but no application) required: 
 
Making the Urban Poetic with Amy King
6 sessions: Wednesdays, Oct. 12-Nov. 16, 7-9:30pm  
 
The alleys, sewers, and towers of the city provide a labyrinthine landscape
that mirrors the poetic explorations of its inhabitants. Whitman's "I
contain multitudes" boldly points out each city dweller's multiple ways of
being in the world. This workshop will explore the effects of the city's
ever-changing spaces and systems within our own writing. Readings by Cesar
Vallejo, Kenneth Koch, Elaine Equi, and others will be discussed.   
 
Amy King is the author of the poetry collection, Antidotes for an Alibi, a
Lambda Book Award finalist, and the chapbook, The People Instruments. She
teaches Creative Writing and English at Nassau Community College. 
 
$240, Space is limited.
 
To register, please call 212-431-7920 or email stephen at poetshouse.org.
 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
 
Master Class with Kathleen Fraser
Sat. Oct. 29, 10am-1pm & Sun. Oct. 30, 10am-3pm 
 
SUBSTITUTION & THE ART OF REVISION:  detention, retention, intention -how
the re-thinking of page (space) & line can alter both meaning and sound
-the impact of sentences and paragraphs on an otherwise linear poetic text
-disappearing words/effects of arbitrary or inadvertent erasure
-ethical/legal issues of using found material (or "sampling," in music
parlance) 
 
Kathleen Fraser, the author of more a dozen books of poetry and prose,
teaches at the California College of the Arts.
 
$250, Space is limited. 
Applications must be received by Tuesday October 11th. 
(See below for details) 
 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
 
Master Class with C. S. Giscombe 
Sat. Nov. 12 & Sun. Nov. 13, 1:30-5:30pm   
 
Innovation, Invention, and Improvisation (in the production of long and/or
connected poems) 
 
C.S. Giscombe, a professor of English at Penn State, is the author of
several books of poetry, including Here and Giscome Road. 
 
$250, Space is limited. 
Applications must be received by Friday October 14th (See below for details)
 
 
_________________________________________________________
 
Master Class Applications consist of three poems. No names on the poems,
please. A cover sheet with only the applicant's name, address, email and
phone numbers should accompany the poems.  
 
Mail to: Poets House, 72 Spring St., 2nd Fl., New York, NY 10012. 
Email to: stephen at poetshouse.org (Please do not email your work as an
attachment. Simply include your poems and contact info in the body of the
plain text message.) 
Fax to: 212-431-8131 
 
Questions? Please visit http://www.poetshouse.org or call: 212-431-7920. 
 
All courses meet at Poets House, 72 Spring Street, 2nd Floor, NYC 
 
_________________________________________________________
 
Poets House is a literary center and poetry archive -- a collection and
meeting place that invites poets and the public to step into the living
tradition of poetry. Our 45,000 volumes of books, journals, chapbooks,
audiotapes, videos and electronic media is the most comprehensive
open-access collection of poetry in the United States.
The Reading Room is free and open to the public
Tuesday-Friday, 11-7pm & Saturday 11-4pm.
The Children's Reading Room is open Saturday 11-1pm.
Please call (212) 431-7920 or visit our website
http://www.poetshouse.org for more information & for holiday closings.
Poets House
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_________________________________________________________
 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 10:25:00 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:25:00 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Radio National Books and Drama Newsletter 
Message-ID: <218.ad5d234.3077df3c@aol.com>

Radio National Books and Drama Newsletter
7 - 15 October 2005
=========================================================

BOOK TALK
08/10/2005 13:00
13/10/2005 20:35 (repeat)

Newspaper Days...
*URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/booktalk/stories/s1471164.htm

Clive James and Peter Porter in the second of six programs on their 
careers as poets.


POETICA
08/10/2005 15:00
13/10/2005 21:00 (repeat)

Janet Frame
*URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/poetica/stories/s1465034.htm

Born in Dunedin and raised in Oamaru Janet Frame was one of New 
Zealand's leading writers of poetry and prose. She published twelve 
novels, four collections of stories, a poetry anthology and an 
autobiography. In 1989 she won the 'Commonwealth Writers Prize' for 'The 
Carpathians' and in 1990 her novel 'An Angel at My Table' was turned 
into a film by acclaimed director Jane Campion. The poetry featured in 
this program comes from 'The Pocket Mirror' and 'The Goose Bath'


LINGUA FRANCA
08/10/2005 15:45
13/10/2005 21:45

The Hard Yards...
*URL:* http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s1475240.htm

This week another chance to hear the first of three programs on the 
language of poetry, Chris Wallace-Crabbe elaborates on what's missing 
from self-help manuals such as Frances Stillman's /Poet's Manual and 
Rhyming Dictionary/.
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Oct  7 10:35:29 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:35:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Valparaiso Poetry Review: New Issue
In-Reply-To: <15d.5a9d55e4.307718f1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF6BF1E1.14D75%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 10/6/05 7:18 PM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/5/2005 4:04:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu writes:
Essay: David Graham on "The Ultra-Talk Poem & Mark Halliday"

David, I see you can't just shut up about Halliday.
Finnegan


_______________________________________________


Guess not, Jim.  I'll have to persist with my golden words until you see the
light!

Seriously, I'd be delighted if anyone has reactions to this piece.  As
long-time NewPo readers may recall, I've been mulling over such matters on
this list for some time, and NewPoetry certainly deserves acknowledgment if
not blame for the final product.

http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamultra.html

http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamcold.html

http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/grahamcontrolled.html



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:34:23 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:34:23 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems in Space!
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510070734m14311c2dgc2fba31c66847435@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/4313230.stm
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 10:37:31 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:37:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Granta
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510070737ha06b66bs518848068dbf2ef7@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051007/people_nm/media_granta_dc
 LONDON (Reuters) - Swedish-born philanthropist Sigrid Rausing has bought
Granta, the century old literary journal renowned for discovering new
writers like poet Sylvia Plath and A.A. Milne, the creator of Winnie the
Pooh.
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Oct  7 10:59:31 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:59:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The game of the actual pingpong of the abyss 
Message-ID: <BF6BF783.14D7A%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Today's the day:

Allen Ginsberg performed *Howl* for the first time in 1955.

I heard Ginsberg read the whole thing in around 1985 or so, I think, at an
MLA conference.  I'm guessing the occasion was the publication of what a
friend of mine calls Big Red, his collected poems.

By that time he'd long since made his peace with the academy, and was decked
out in tweed & tie, as I recall.

Best part of the event was when Ginsberg got several hundred equally tweedy
types to sway & sing along while he performed some of Blake's songs with a
guitarist.  What a horrid voice he had, too.  In James Wright's words, he
had a bad voice, but he could sing. . . .

Never seen anything like it at an MLA.



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 12:05:27 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 12:05:27 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune 
Message-ID: <1c5.31f3fce7.3077f6c7@aol.com>

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=845&ArticleID=1
215625
 
Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune
 
HE lived and died in poverty, but John Clare's poetic appreciation of the 
Peterborough countryside made him a legend.
Like many artists and literary giants, Clare did not live to enjoy his fame, 
and he would be amazed to discover just how valued he is today.
 
Indeed, he would have been staggered that someone would splash out ?3,600 ? a 
fortune in his day ? for the only known photograph of him.
 
The portrait of the man who gained international recognition as the Peasant 
Poet went under the hammer at a top London auction house this week.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 12:05:36 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 12:05:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] In Her Shoes 
Message-ID: <141.4f29ebe6.3077f6d0@aol.com>

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051006/REVIEWS/509
28001
 
In Her Shoes 
 
BY ROGER EBERT / October 7, 2005 
 
Fox 2000 Pictures presents a film directed by Curtis Hanson. Written by 
Susannah Grant. Based on the novel by Jennifer Weiner. Running time: 129 minutes. 
Rated PG-13 (for thematic material language and some sexual content). 
 
 
Curtis Hanson's "In Her Shoes" takes a good half hour to make it clear it 
will not be a soppy chick flick, and for that matter what is "chick flick" anyway 
but an insulting term for a movie that is about women instead of the usual 
testosterone carriers? The movie's set-up would be right at home in a sitcom, 
but its next 99 minutes do some rather unexpected things with characters who 
insist on breaking out of the stereotypes they started with. It's not every 
big-budget movie that gets its two biggest emotional payoffs with poems by 
Elizabeth Bishop and e.e. cummings.
 
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 12:39:51 2005
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:39:51 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems in Space!
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0510070734m14311c2dgc2fba31c66847435@mail.gmail.com>
References: <731bb17a0510070734m14311c2dgc2fba31c66847435@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60510070939s76202b0bx2e870189122b19ab@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I hope it carries a disclaimer that 1) the poem does not
represent the views of others 2) it may be poetry only in the U.K.. 
Then, of course, there'll have to be an explanation of what the U.K.
is.  or a link to Wikipedia.

- Jim

On 10/7/05, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/4313230.stm
>  Jeff Newberry
>
> --
> "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
> --Miguel de Unamuno
>
> Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
>
>


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org



From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Fri Oct  7 13:11:16 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:11:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu>

can you help me scan Pound's "In a Station of the Metro". . .

the first line's hexameter, right? six iambic feet:

The APPaRITion OF these FAces IN the CROWD;

. . . the second line seems visually to be half the length:

Petals on a wet, black bough.

. . . so is it half the feet?  is it three feet (trochaic, anapestic,
spondaic):

PETals / on a WET, / BLACK BOUGH.

. . . or is it four iambic feet, with the first foot headless:

[  ]PET/als ON/ a WET,/ black BOUGH.

. . .
if I read it accentually, there seem to be four strong
stresses in each line, or am I wrong:

The APPaRITion of these FAces in the CROWD;
PETals on a WET, BLACK BOUGH.

. . .
(love the rhymes: METro, RIT, PET, WET; etcet)

your input appreciated. ... thanks in advance

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From tad at opus40.org  Fri Oct  7 13:14:56 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:14:56 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune 
References: <1c5.31f3fce7.3077f6c7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008501c5cb62$a3eed8e0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Wow. Huzzah for John Clare...he was one of the good ones.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:05 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune 


  http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=845&ArticleID=1215625

   

  Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune

   

  HE lived and died in poverty, but John Clare's poetic appreciation of the Peterborough countryside made him a legend.

  Like many artists and literary giants, Clare did not live to enjoy his fame, and he would be amazed to discover just how valued he is today.

   

  Indeed, he would have been staggered that someone would splash out ?3,600 ? a fortune in his day ? for the only known photograph of him.

   

  The portrait of the man who gained international recognition as the Peasant Poet went under the hammer at a top London auction house this week. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Oct  7 14:07:27 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:07:27 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
References: <82.322024e1.30771510@aol.com>
Message-ID: <015501c5cb69$fa61df90$69af3852@ANNY>

I think James Finnegan is starting to like teasing me, or was he teasing English or the Inferno or the damned flames that restlessly and implacably divour those who do not incorporate nuclea of consolidated beliefs to float afloat the enlightened boat?
Grasp sights in the night of labyrinthic hermeneutics_ sybilline is the message firing through secularly caved ... etc etc etc 

tchiuuuu, sorry
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno


  In a message dated 10/5/2005 2:51:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:
    I am sorry I cannot help. I have it in Italian and I am not looking forward to read it also in English.
  English will torture Dante's Inferno into submission, Anny. You can't resist...surrender
  Dorothy (or Beatrix)
  Finnegan


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Oct  7 14:19:23 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:19:23 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune 
References: <1c5.31f3fce7.3077f6c7@aol.com>
	<008501c5cb62$a3eed8e0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <018101c5cb6b$a5306a80$69af3852@ANNY>

I found a blog for him:
http://www.johnclare.blogspot.com/

What is Life? (Final) 

And what is Death? is still the cause unfound?
That dark, mysterious name of horrid sound?
A long and lingering sleep, the weary crave.
And Peace? where can its happiness abound?--
No where at all, save heaven, and the grave.

Then what is Life?--When stripped of its disguise,
A thing to be desired it cannot be;
Since every thing that meets our foolish eyes
Gives proof sufficient of its vanity.
Tis but a trial all must undergo;
To teach unthankful mortals how to prize
That happiness vain man's denied to know,
Until he's called to claim it in the skies.

  From: TheOldMole 
  Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 7:14 PM


  Wow. Huzzah for John Clare...he was one of the good ones.
    From: JforJames at aol.com 
    Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:05 PM


    http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=845&ArticleID=1215625

     

    Peasant Poet's photo is sold for a fortune

     

    HE lived and died in poverty, but John Clare's poetic appreciation of the Peterborough countryside made him a legend.

    Like many artists and literary giants, Clare did not live to enjoy his fame, and he would be amazed to discover just how valued he is today.

     

    Indeed, he would have been staggered that someone would splash out ?3,600 ? a fortune in his day ? for the only known photograph of him.

     

    The portrait of the man who gained international recognition as the Peasant Poet went under the hammer at a top London auction house this week. 


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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct  7 15:11:00 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:11:00 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin>

Two lines, basic four stress:

        The (APPpaRITion) of these FACES in a CROWD
        PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH.

{Except it's important that the third ictus in the first line carries a
slightly lighter stress}

I mean, it's not as if it's that complicated, nah?

            <sigh>

Robin

        Jeezus wept!

From: "William Knott" <William_Knott at emerson.edu>

<<
if I read it accentually, there seem to be four strong
stresses in each line, or am I wrong:

The APPaRITion of these FAces in the CROWD;
PETals on a WET, BLACK BOUGH.
>>

Right.

Robin



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct  7 16:50:00 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:50:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu>
	<00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Every poem has four zones of operation: (1) the sagaceptual (or narrative) 
zone, (2) the anthroceptual (or people-related) zone, (3) the fundaceptual 
(or imagism-centered) zone and (4) the reducticeptual (or technique-focused) 
zone.  What the poem does as a story, what it does as self-expression, what 
it does as an evocation of a scene or object, and what it does as a 
mechanism (i.e., how its grammar works, what its form does, what--in the 
case of my mathemaku--its mathematics does, and so forth).  Right now, I can 
think of no other operational zones it might have (but would not be at all 
surprised if it had others, even very obvious others).

--Bob G. 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct  7 17:50:17 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:50:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <00d801c5cb89$1b480530$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

. . .
(love the rhymes: METro, RIT, PET, WET; etcet)

It's RIH, not RIT, and it doesn't rhyme with anything else in the poem.

--Bob G.



From millb at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 18:14:10 2005
From: millb at aol.com (millb at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:14:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The game of the actual pingpong of the abyss 
In-Reply-To: <BF6BF783.14D7A%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BF6BF783.14D7A%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <8C799A393CF4172-1308-403@FWM-R29.sysops.aol.com>

HOWL!
 
I saw Ginsberg in the late 1980's in a Bowling Alley in Fullerton, California; he played bongo drums (had a young boy accompanying him) and guitar and. . . commented about the good old days when he could perform in the nude and smoke drugs. . .in public.
 
I cannot remember if he wore a tie, but he had on a plain white shirt.  No jacket required.
 
HOWL away, indeed!
 
Mill
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:59:31 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The game of the actual pingpong of the abyss 


Today's the day:

Allen Ginsberg performed *Howl* for the first time in 1955.

I heard Ginsberg read the whole thing in around 1985 or so, I think, at an
MLA conference.  I'm guessing the occasion was the publication of what a
friend of mine calls Big Red, his collected poems.

By that time he'd long since made his peace with the academy, and was decked
out in tweed & tie, as I recall.

Best part of the event was when Ginsberg got several hundred equally tweedy
types to sway & sing along while he performed some of Blake's songs with a
guitarist.  What a horrid voice he had, too.  In James Wright's words, he
had a bad voice, but he could sing. . . .

Never seen anything like it at an MLA.



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Fri Oct  7 18:39:26 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 18:39:26 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're RIT, i'm wrong
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B9C@mail.emerson.edu>

Grumman, you're right and i'm wrong. ..

so stupid of me.   that's what i get for
straining to read the poem visually
rather than aurally. . .
 
straining to read the "palpable and mute"
of it. . .



From bardo at optonline.net  Fri Oct  7 20:56:43 2005
From: bardo at optonline.net (Daniel Zimmerman)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:56:43 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <00c601c5cba3$26f93060$3a95c044@MULDER>

Wow, that first line seems pretty clunky to me;
I've always heard it:

 x     x  x   /    x   x    x      /     x   x  x       /
the appaRITion of these FAces in the CROWD

(what do you call that, prosodists--three short, one long?
I've packed my Princeton Encyclopedia & Saintsbury away.)

~ Dan Zimmerman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Knott" <William_Knott at emerson.edu>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:11 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


> can you help me scan Pound's "In a Station of the Metro". . .
>
> the first line's hexameter, right? six iambic feet:
>
> The APPaRITion OF these FAces IN the CROWD;
>
> . . . the second line seems visually to be half the length:
>
> Petals on a wet, black bough.
>
> . . . so is it half the feet?  is it three feet (trochaic, anapestic,
> spondaic):
>
> PETals / on a WET, / BLACK BOUGH.
>
> . . . or is it four iambic feet, with the first foot headless:
>
> [  ]PET/als ON/ a WET,/ black BOUGH.
>
> . . .
> if I read it accentually, there seem to be four strong
> stresses in each line, or am I wrong:
>
> The APPaRITion of these FAces in the CROWD;
> PETals on a WET, BLACK BOUGH.
>
> . . .
> (love the rhymes: METro, RIT, PET, WET; etcet)
>
> your input appreciated. ... thanks in advance
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct  7 21:12:17 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 02:12:17 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu>
	<00c601c5cba3$26f93060$3a95c044@MULDER>
Message-ID: <020801c5cba5$5328c3b0$e8658b56@Robin>

Lor', problems with this is this there may be, but scansion there ain't:

The APPariTION  of these FACes  in a CROWD
PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH

Metro is two lines of four-stress metre -- who argues with this?

Pound knew what he was doing,

R.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Zimmerman" <bardo at optonline.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Cc: "Daniel Zimmerman" <bardo at optonline.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


> Wow, that first line seems pretty clunky to me;
> I've always heard it:
>
>  x     x  x   /    x   x    x      /     x   x  x       /
> the appaRITion of these FAces in the CROWD
>
> (what do you call that, prosodists--three short, one long?
> I've packed my Princeton Encyclopedia & Saintsbury away.)
>
> ~ Dan Zimmerman
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "William Knott" <William_Knott at emerson.edu>
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 1:11 PM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
>
>
> > can you help me scan Pound's "In a Station of the Metro". . .
> >
> > the first line's hexameter, right? six iambic feet:
> >
> > The APPaRITion OF these FAces IN the CROWD;
> >
> > . . . the second line seems visually to be half the length:
> >
> > Petals on a wet, black bough.
> >
> > . . . so is it half the feet?  is it three feet (trochaic, anapestic,
> > spondaic):
> >
> > PETals / on a WET, / BLACK BOUGH.
> >
> > . . . or is it four iambic feet, with the first foot headless:
> >
> > [  ]PET/als ON/ a WET,/ black BOUGH.
> >
> > . . .
> > if I read it accentually, there seem to be four strong
> > stresses in each line, or am I wrong:
> >
> > The APPaRITion of these FAces in the CROWD;
> > PETals on a WET, BLACK BOUGH.
> >
> > . . .
> > (love the rhymes: METro, RIT, PET, WET; etcet)
> >
> > your input appreciated. ... thanks in advance
> >
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Oct  7 21:22:36 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:22:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00c601c5cba3$26f93060$3a95c044@MULDER>
	<020801c5cba5$5328c3b0$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <010001c5cba6$c455e3a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> Lor', problems with this is this there may be, but scansion there ain't:
>
> The APPaRItion of these FACes  in a CROWD
> PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH
>
> Metro is two lines of four-stress metre -- who argues with this?
>
> Pound knew what he was doing,
>
> R.

I'm curious.  Did Pound claim there should only be one way to scan lines, 
Robin?  I feel there are at least three pretty much equally valid ways to 
scan the two above.  For instance, why should "these" not get an accent?

I also rather like PEtals ON a WET black BOUGH, though I doubt anyone will 
go along with me on that.  I like it because it makes the petals 
drift/flutter off into transcience, which I prefer to their being DRAMATIC. 
Yeah, the petals in the image are stopt--but they will soon be blown on.

--Bob G. 




From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Fri Oct  7 21:55:15 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 02:55:15 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00c601c5cba3$26f93060$3a95c044@MULDER><020801c5cba5$5328c3b0$e8658b56@Robin>
	<010001c5cba6$c455e3a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <021701c5cbab$53de9770$e8658b56@Robin>

Bob:

> I'm curious.  Did Pound claim there should only be one way to scan lines,
> Robin?  I feel there are at least three pretty much equally valid ways to
> scan the two above.  For instance, why should "these" not get an accent?

No, as far as know, Pound never discussed in detail the how the Metro
switched from a twenty-line poem to the current version.

All I'm saying is that the final text --

        The apparition of these faces in a crowd:
        Petals on a wet black bough

ONLY works if you scan it as four stress.

I may be wrong, but so what else is new?

Robin



From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct  8 01:48:40 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 01:48:40 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin>
	<00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <005c01c5cbcb$efe689f0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

This is actually not the dumbest thing you've ever written. Except for the 
clunky coinages, of course.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?


> Every poem has four zones of operation: (1) the sagaceptual (or narrative) 
> zone, (2) the anthroceptual (or people-related) zone, (3) the fundaceptual 
> (or imagism-centered) zone and (4) the reducticeptual (or 
> technique-focused) zone.  What the poem does as a story, what it does as 
> self-expression, what it does as an evocation of a scene or object, and 
> what it does as a mechanism (i.e., how its grammar works, what its form 
> does, what--in the case of my mathemaku--its mathematics does, and so 
> forth).  Right now, I can think of no other operational zones it might 
> have (but would not be at all surprised if it had others, even very 
> obvious others).
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct  8 06:39:24 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 06:39:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin><00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<005c01c5cbcb$efe689f0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <000e01c5cbf4$8d9ad340$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> This is actually not the dumbest thing you've ever written. Except for the 
> clunky coinages, of course.

The clunky coinages connect to my theory of psychology, which assumes our 
brains are divided into 9 awarenesses (similar to the brain-divisions of 
Howard Gardner but more clunkily named to distinguish them from his, and 
also to allow them to work adjectivally).  If you think "perceptual" when 
reading them, they aren't that clunky, I don't think.  Of course, just about 
any coinage will seem clunky until it becomes familiar.

Thanks for the response.

--Bob G. 




From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct  8 10:30:18 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:30:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin><00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><005c01c5cbcb$efe689f0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<000e01c5cbf4$8d9ad340$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <002301c5cc14$ced4ec40$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I'll bet "fuck you" didn't sound all that clunky, even the first time it was 
uttered. Not that I would ever say it to anyone, of course.

Seriously, I do like the distinctions.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?


>
>
>> This is actually not the dumbest thing you've ever written. Except for 
>> the clunky coinages, of course.
>
> The clunky coinages connect to my theory of psychology, which assumes our 
> brains are divided into 9 awarenesses (similar to the brain-divisions of 
> Howard Gardner but more clunkily named to distinguish them from his, and 
> also to allow them to work adjectivally).  If you think "perceptual" when 
> reading them, they aren't that clunky, I don't think.  Of course, just 
> about any coinage will seem clunky until it becomes familiar.
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  8 10:41:20 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 15:41:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin><00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><005c01c5cbcb$efe689f0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><000e01c5cbf4$8d9ad340$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<002301c5cc14$ced4ec40$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <02a301c5cc16$593cc9b0$e8658b56@Robin>

What about the punch-line to the David Frost's Younger Brother Joke?

        A Horse He Rode In On

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?


> I'll bet "fuck you" didn't sound all that clunky, even the first time it
was
> uttered. Not that I would ever say it to anyone, of course.
>
> Seriously, I do like the distinctions.



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Oct  8 11:15:47 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:15:47 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] contests submissions etc
Message-ID: <006801c5cc1b$29b66610$28ac3452@ANNY>

Have a look at this:

http://groups.google.com/group/crwropps3

work by Allison Joseph, from the WOM-PO list.


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct  8 11:52:21 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:52:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
In-Reply-To: <00c601c5cba3$26f93060$3a95c044@MULDER>
Message-ID: <BF6D5564.14DD8%grahamd@ripon.edu>

I have no dog in this fight, if fight it be.  But one other option is at
least worth mentioning:  how about it's free verse?  Flirting with the ghost
of meter, sure, but not obviously metrical--as the variety of responses here
has perhaps demonstrated.

In any case, scansion becomes more difficult the fewer the number of lines
you look at, seems to me.


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct  8 12:03:39 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 11:03:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
In-Reply-To: <BF6D5564.14DD8%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu>

If "Metro" *has* to be metrical, then my second choice would be Robin's:
it's accentual, with 4 stresses.

But I do think it generally takes more than 2 lines to establish accentual
meter.

Is it the near-rime assonance of crowd/bough that makes us all want to find
meter here?  The ghost of a heroic couplet?


on 10/8/05 10:52 AM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote:

> I have no dog in this fight, if fight it be.  But one other option is at
> least worth mentioning:  how about it's free verse?  Flirting with the ghost
> of meter, sure, but not obviously metrical--as the variety of responses here
> has perhaps demonstrated.
> 
> In any case, scansion becomes more difficult the fewer the number of lines
> you look at, seems to me.
> 



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 12:06:40 2005
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:06:40 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] You say to-MAY-to I say toe-MAH-toe
Message-ID: <fde503480510080906v7d902236w7b12dfe6b17b7d2b@mail.gmail.com>

You say "either" and I say "either"
You say "neither" I say "neither"
"Either" "either", "neither" "neither"
Let's call the whole thing off
You say "potato," I say "patattah"
You say "tomato", I say "tomata"
Oh, let's call the whole thing off
Oh, if we call the whole thing off
Then we must part and oh
If we ever part, that would break my heart
So, I say "ursta" you say "oyster"
I'm not gonna stop eatin' urstas just cause you say oyster,
Oh, let's call the whole thing off
Oh, I say "pajamas", you say "pajamas"
Sugar, what's the problem?
Oh, for we know we need each other so
We'd better call the calling off off
So let's call it off, oh let's call it off
Oh, let's call it off, baby let's call it off
Sugar why don't we call it off,
I'm talking baby why call it off
Call it off?
Let's call the whole thing off

--
http://www.badstep.net/
http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/



From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct  8 12:09:12 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:09:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] contests submissions etc
References: <006801c5cc1b$29b66610$28ac3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003d01c5cc22$a0084ca0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Allison Joseph is great.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: New Poetry 
  Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:15 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] contests submissions etc


  Have a look at this:

  http://groups.google.com/group/crwropps3

  work by Allison Joseph, from the WOM-PO list.


  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct  8 12:14:42 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 11:14:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Allison
In-Reply-To: <003d01c5cc22$a0084ca0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <BF6D5AA2.14DDE%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 10/8/05 11:09 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:

Allison Joseph is great.
=====================

Yes she is.  Not only that, she's a dactyl followed by a trochee!

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct  8 12:37:01 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:37:01 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I'm with David on this.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


> If "Metro" *has* to be metrical, then my second choice would be Robin's:
> it's accentual, with 4 stresses.
>
> But I do think it generally takes more than 2 lines to establish accentual
> meter.
>
> Is it the near-rime assonance of crowd/bough that makes us all want to 
> find
> meter here?  The ghost of a heroic couplet?
>
>
> on 10/8/05 10:52 AM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote:
>
>> I have no dog in this fight, if fight it be.  But one other option is at
>> least worth mentioning:  how about it's free verse?  Flirting with the 
>> ghost
>> of meter, sure, but not obviously metrical--as the variety of responses 
>> here
>> has perhaps demonstrated.
>>
>> In any case, scansion becomes more difficult the fewer the number of 
>> lines
>> you look at, seems to me.
>>
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 13:04:58 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 13:04:58 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
In-Reply-To: <004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com>

The original (*Poetry*, 1913) looks like this:
 The apparition of these faces in the crowd :
Petals on a wet, black bough .
 I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the poem?
Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?
 Just a theory here. I'm wondering what you all think.
 Jeff Newberry

 On 10/8/05, TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:
>
> I'm with David on this.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 12:03 PM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
>
>
> > If "Metro" *has* to be metrical, then my second choice would be Robin's:
> > it's accentual, with 4 stresses.
> >
> > But I do think it generally takes more than 2 lines to establish
> accentual
> > meter.
> >
> > Is it the near-rime assonance of crowd/bough that makes us all want to
> > find
> > meter here? The ghost of a heroic couplet?
> >
> >
> > on 10/8/05 10:52 AM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote:
> >
> >> I have no dog in this fight, if fight it be. But one other option is at
> >> least worth mentioning: how about it's free verse? Flirting with the
> >> ghost
> >> of meter, sure, but not obviously metrical--as the variety of responses
> >> here
> >> has perhaps demonstrated.
> >>
> >> In any case, scansion becomes more difficult the fewer the number of
> >> lines
> >> you look at, seems to me.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ====================================================
> > David Graham
> > grahamd at ripon.edu
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> > Poetry Library:
> > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> > ====================================================
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct  8 13:48:00 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 13:48:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

  The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
  Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
   
  I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the poem?  Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?  

  Just a theory here.  I'm wondering what you all think.

  Jeff Newberry

  It's considered a neo-visual poem in vispo circles.  Here's what vispo expert Bob Grumman said about it in his Of Manywhere-at-Once (1990): "In its proper form (as above, according to Edwin Morgan), it is a visual poem, which is to say that the way it appears to the eye enlarges its significantly, in this case by showing as well as speaking of the scattered faces the poem is about."  The expert goes on to speak of the "alphaconceptual " importance of its two colons, one at the end of each line, the second "leaving the poem open as to where the petals, and faces, might go. . . ."

  Morgan made his claim in Akros (1972).  I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description.  I think he was straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early poems when he wrote the passage I quote.  But the poem is certainly on the edge of being a visual poem.

  As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm.  The poem is unquestionably free verse, for me.

  --Bob G.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Oct  8 14:31:31 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 20:31:31 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com>
	<004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <011401c5cc36$81920d60$28ac3452@ANNY>

Very interesting is the visual reading:

The apparition
Petals

                of these faces
                    black

                                bough
                                    in the crowd

There is anyhow a very strong visual element that goes beyond the words themselves. I associate black with asphalt, a crowded street after the rain, petals bring spring, the wet black bough draws me back to an actual (almost uncomfortable) presence in the wet fields.
I think this is one among my preferred poems.
  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:48 PM


  The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

    The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
    Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
     
    I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the poem?  Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?  

    Just a theory here.  I'm wondering what you all think.

    Jeff Newberry

    It's considered a neo-visual poem in vispo circles.  Here's what vispo expert Bob Grumman said about it in his Of Manywhere-at-Once (1990): "In its proper form (as above, according to Edwin Morgan), it is a visual poem, which is to say that the way it appears to the eye enlarges its significantly, in this case by showing as well as speaking of the scattered faces the poem is about."  The expert goes on to speak of the "alphaconceptual " importance of its two colons, one at the end of each line, the second "leaving the poem open as to where the petals, and faces, might go. . . ."

    Morgan made his claim in Akros (1972).  I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description.  I think he was straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early poems when he wrote the passage I quote.  But the poem is certainly on the edge of being a visual poem.

    As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm.  The poem is unquestionably free verse, for me.

    --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct  8 14:32:37 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 14:32:37 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--Comments, Anyone?
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529B99@mail.emerson.edu><00ea01c5cb72$dab9d810$e8658b56@Robin><00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><005c01c5cbcb$efe689f0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><000e01c5cbf4$8d9ad340$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<002301c5cc14$ced4ec40$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <001401c5cc36$a93c5190$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> I'll bet "fuck you" didn't sound all that clunky, even the first time it 
> was uttered. Not that I would ever say it to anyone, of course.

Well, it was no doubt set up by "go fuck yourself."  I never use it, myself, 
because it doesn't really make sense.  "Go fuck a maggotty cow-corpse" would 
work better, I think.


> Seriously, I do like the distinctions.

Thanks, Mole.

--Bob G. 




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct  8 14:42:33 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:42:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--COmments, Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c5cb80$af6659a0$24b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BF6D7D48.14DF1%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Interesting to compare these with Pound's original 3 categories, I think:

melopoeia
logopoeia 
phanopoeia


In rough terms, these would correspond, respective, to sound, sense, and
picture.  Thus it would appear that Bob's fundaceptual = phanopoeia, more or
less.  

What seems missing from Bob's categories (unless I'm missing something) is
the play of sound-as-sound (melopoeia).

Not sure also where figurative language would fit, plus things like irony.

on 10/7/05 3:50 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:

> Every poem has four zones of operation: (1) the sagaceptual (or narrative)
> zone, (2) the anthroceptual (or people-related) zone, (3) the fundaceptual
> (or imagism-centered) zone and (4) the reducticeptual (or technique-focused)
> zone.  What the poem does as a story, what it does as self-expression, what
> it does as an evocation of a scene or object, and what it does as a
> mechanism (i.e., how its grammar works, what its form does, what--in the
> case of my mathemaku--its mathematics does, and so forth).  Right now, I can
> think of no other operational zones it might have (but would not be at all
> surprised if it had others, even very obvious others).
> 
> --Bob G. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct  8 15:08:54 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 15:08:54 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--Comments, Anyone?
References: <BF6D7D48.14DF1%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <002501c5cc3b$ba1c97e0$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> Interesting to compare these with Pound's original 3 categories, I think:
>
> melopoeia
> logopoeia
> phanopoeia
>

Yes, his are behind mine.


> In rough terms, these would correspond, respectively, to sound, sense, and
> picture.  Thus it would appear that Bob's fundaceptual = phanopoeia, more 
> or
> less.
>
> What seems missing from Bob's categories (unless I'm missing something) is
> the play of sound-as-sound (melopoeia).

That'd be in the fundaceptual zone--but you didn't miss it, David; my 
definition wasn't complete.  I think of imagism as presenting the sensual 
particulars of events or moments, of being sound or picture or describing 
sound or picture in such a way as to recreate it in the person experiencing 
the poem.  So my fundaceptual zone combines Pound's melopoeia and 
phanopoeia.  Now that you've made me think more about it, I'm not sure it 
should.

> Not sure also where figurative language would fit, plus things like irony.

Good point.  Figurative language would "just" be a means of making sensual 
elements more vivid, I think.  But could be used in the sagaceptual zone to 
heighten the story being told or in the anthroceptual zone to enrich 
characterization.  So, it'd be a means within those zones.

In the reducticeptual zone it'd exist as itself--that is, in that zone of a 
poem, the person experiencing the poem would admire (or dislike) it as a 
technique.  Irony, for me, would be figurative language, so included as a 
method of operation in all the zones but the reducticeptual one, and as a 
mechnism of interest for itself rather than for its subject matter and/or 
results there.

But I'll have to think more about it.  Thanks for the feedback, David.

> on 10/7/05 3:50 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:
>
>> Every poem has four zones of operation: (1) the sagaceptual (or 
>> narrative)
>> zone, (2) the anthroceptual (or people-related) zone, (3) the 
>> fundaceptual
>> (or imagism-centered) zone and (4) the reducticeptual (or 
>> technique-focused)
>> zone.  What the poem does as a story, what it does as self-expression, 
>> what
>> it does as an evocation of a scene or object, and what it does as a
>> mechanism (i.e., how its grammar works, what its form does, what--in the
>> case of my mathemaku--its mathematics does, and so forth).  Right now, I 
>> can
>> think of no other operational zones it might have (but would not be at 
>> all
>> surprised if it had others, even very obvious others).
>>
>> --Bob G.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> 




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Oct  8 15:10:48 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:10:48 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Salman Rushdie
Message-ID: <012801c5cc3b$fe43f350$28ac3452@ANNY>

http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R209271000

Angie Coiro spends an hour with writer Salman Rushdie. His latest work is "Step Across this Line - Collected Nonfiction - 1992-2002." 
Host: Angie Coiro
Guests:

     Salman Rushdie
     



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From hruggier at localnet.com  Sat Oct  8 16:15:00 2005
From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:15:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c5cc44$f6bad910$af0b9942@Helen>

Didn't Pound say to compose with the musical phrase in mind rather than the 
metronome?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


> If "Metro" *has* to be metrical, then my second choice would be Robin's:
> it's accentual, with 4 stresses.
>
> But I do think it generally takes more than 2 lines to establish accentual
> meter.
>
> Is it the near-rime assonance of crowd/bough that makes us all want to 
> find
> meter here?  The ghost of a heroic couplet?
>
>
> on 10/8/05 10:52 AM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote:
>
>> I have no dog in this fight, if fight it be.  But one other option is at
>> least worth mentioning:  how about it's free verse?  Flirting with the 
>> ghost
>> of meter, sure, but not obviously metrical--as the variety of responses 
>> here
>> has perhaps demonstrated.
>>
>> In any case, scansion becomes more difficult the fewer the number of 
>> lines
>> you look at, seems to me.
>>
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> 


--------------------------------------------
My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com



From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  8 18:01:29 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:01:29 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--Comments, Anyone?
Message-ID: <200510082037.j98Kb2nN175912@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>

FUNDACEPTUAL, baby!

----------
>From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
>To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--Comments, Anyone?
>Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2005, 11:08 AM
>

>
>
>> Interesting to compare these with Pound's original 3 categories, I think:
>>
>> melopoeia
>> logopoeia
>> phanopoeia
>>
>
> Yes, his are behind mine.
>
>
>> In rough terms, these would correspond, respectively, to sound, sense, and
>> picture.  Thus it would appear that Bob's fundaceptual = phanopoeia, more
>> or
>> less.
>>
>> What seems missing from Bob's categories (unless I'm missing something) is
>> the play of sound-as-sound (melopoeia).
>
> That'd be in the fundaceptual zone--but you didn't miss it, David; my
> definition wasn't complete.  I think of imagism as presenting the sensual
> particulars of events or moments, of being sound or picture or describing
> sound or picture in such a way as to recreate it in the person experiencing
> the poem.  So my fundaceptual zone combines Pound's melopoeia and
> phanopoeia.  Now that you've made me think more about it, I'm not sure it
> should.
>
>> Not sure also where figurative language would fit, plus things like irony.
>
> Good point.  Figurative language would "just" be a means of making sensual
> elements more vivid, I think.  But could be used in the sagaceptual zone to
> heighten the story being told or in the anthroceptual zone to enrich
> characterization.  So, it'd be a means within those zones.
>
> In the reducticeptual zone it'd exist as itself--that is, in that zone of a
> poem, the person experiencing the poem would admire (or dislike) it as a
> technique.  Irony, for me, would be figurative language, so included as a
> method of operation in all the zones but the reducticeptual one, and as a
> mechnism of interest for itself rather than for its subject matter and/or
> results there.
>
> But I'll have to think more about it.  Thanks for the feedback, David.
>
>> on 10/7/05 3:50 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:
>>
>>> Every poem has four zones of operation: (1) the sagaceptual (or
>>> narrative)
>>> zone, (2) the anthroceptual (or people-related) zone, (3) the
>>> fundaceptual
>>> (or imagism-centered) zone and (4) the reducticeptual (or
>>> technique-focused)
>>> zone.  What the poem does as a story, what it does as self-expression,
>>> what
>>> it does as an evocation of a scene or object, and what it does as a
>>> mechanism (i.e., how its grammar works, what its form does, what--in the
>>> case of my mathemaku--its mathematics does, and so forth).  Right now, I
>>> can
>>> think of no other operational zones it might have (but would not be at
>>> all
>>> surprised if it had others, even very obvious others).
>>>
>>> --Bob G.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> ====================================================
>> David Graham
>> grahamd at ripon.edu
>> Home Page:
>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>> Poetry Library:
>> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>> ====================================================
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct  8 17:20:34 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:20:34 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's Blog--Comments, Anyone?
References: <200510082037.j98Kb2nN175912@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <006301c5cc4e$1f095d70$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> FUNDACEPTUAL, baby!

Thanks?

--Bob G.



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  8 19:50:35 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 00:50:35 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com>
	<004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>

I hate to say this, but I find this really quite insane.

I think for starters 1913 is a little early for Harriet Monroe to be publishing Poetry (Chicago).

It's sure as hell way too early for any version of "In a Station of the Metro" that Ezra Pound ever produced.
  The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

    The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
    Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
     
    I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the poem?  Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?  

    Just a theory here.  I'm wondering what you all think.

    Jeff Newberry

    It's considered a neo-visual poem in vispo circles.  Here's what vispo expert Bob Grumman said about it in his Of Manywhere-at-Once (1990): "In its proper form (as above, according to Edwin Morgan), it is a visual poem, which is to say that the way it appears to the eye enlarges its significantly, in this case by showing as well as speaking of the scattered faces the poem is about."  The expert goes on to speak of the "alphaconceptual " importance of its two colons, one at the end of each line, the second "leaving the poem open as to where the petals, and faces, might go. . . ."

    Morgan made his claim in Akros (1972).  

    Boy, this is interesting.

    Given that (I can hope I may say this without contradiction) as I both figure in both of Eddie's feschrifts and published in Akros in the seventies, this is news to me.

    I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description.  I think he was straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early poems when he wrote the passage I quote.  But the poem is certainly on the edge of being a visual poem.

    As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm.  The poem is unquestionably free verse, for me.

    I'm not sure just how many of my buttons it's possible to hit, but this post sure as hell came close to hitting every one.

    I published in Poetry (Chicago) when Fred Nims was editor, and it actually was difficult to pick-up a copy of Akros in the seventies when I *wasn't* published there.

    I know where the the bodies were burried.

    Is this a joke?

    Robin
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct  8 21:21:55 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:21:55 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <00ac01c5cc6f$d6925e80$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I hate to say this, but I find this really quite insane.

  I think for starters 1913 is a little early for Harriet Monroe to be publishing Poetry (Chicago).

  It's sure as hell way too early for any version of "In a Station of the Metro" that Ezra Pound ever produced.
    The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

      The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
      Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
       
      I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the poem?  Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?  

      Pauses as well as visual effect, as I forgot to say.

      Just a theory here.  I'm wondering what you all think.

      Jeff Newberry

      It's considered a neo-visual poem in vispo circles.  Here's what vispo expert Bob Grumman said about it in his Of Manywhere-at-Once (1990): "In its proper form (as above, according to Edwin Morgan), it is a visual poem, which is to say that the way it appears to the eye enlarges its significantly, in this case by showing as well as speaking of the scattered faces the poem is about."  The expert goes on to speak of the "alphaconceptual " importance of its two colons, one at the end of each line, the second "leaving the poem open as to where the petals, and faces, might go. . . ."

      Morgan made his claim in Akros (1972).  

      Boy, this is interesting.

      I don't mind being corrected, Robin.  Cobbing and Mayer said Morgan said what I said he said in CONCERNING CONCRETE POETRY.  I would be stunned if he didn't say it somewhere.  I would like to know when and where so I can satisfy academics if I do another editon of my book, but don't really care.  (I don't say when and where in the present editions of the book.)


      Given that (I can hope I may say this without contradiction) as I both figure in both of Eddie's feschrifts and published in Akros in the seventies, this is news to me.

      C'mon, Robin--you're saying you've memorized the contents of all the magazines you've published in?

      I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description.  I think he was straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early poems when he wrote the passage I quote.  But the poem is certainly on the edge of being a visual poem.

      As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm.  The poem is unquestionably free verse, for me.

      I'm not sure just how many of my buttons it's possible to hit, but this post sure as hell came close to hitting every one.

      I published in Poetry (Chicago) when Fred Nims was editor, and it actually was difficult to pick-up a copy of Akros in the seventies when I *wasn't* published there.

      I know where the the bodies were buried.

      Is this a joke?

      Robin

      I think you have too many buttons concerned with academic accuracy, Robble.

      The Expert
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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sat Oct  8 21:55:49 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 02:55:49 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
	<00ac01c5cc6f$d6925e80$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <03fa01c5cc74$929f6740$e8658b56@Robin>

C'mon, Robin--you're saying you've memorized the contents of all the magazines you've published in?

No, obviously not, but for me, publishing in AKROS was Deeply Unlikely.

The cover Duncan Glenn was runnning for Akros was Lallans, and it was virtually impossible to imagine anyone less likely for Duncan to publish than me.

So I do remember this.

On the other hand, Duncan made damn sure I never scored on the cover.

But what REALLY got up my nose was I was paid more for the articles I wrote (later republished in +Science and Psychodrama+) 

So look, maybe I wasn't god's gift to Scottish poetry, but I was't *that* bad.

It sorta baffled me I got froze out of Akros.

Way it goes.

R.






        I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description.  I think he was straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early poems when he wrote the passage I quote.  But the poem is certainly on the edge of being a visual poem.

        As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm.  The poem is unquestionably free verse, for me.

        I'm not sure just how many of my buttons it's possible to hit, but this post sure as hell came close to hitting every one.

        I published in Poetry (Chicago) when Fred Nims was editor, and it actually was difficult to pick-up a copy of Akros in the seventies when I *wasn't* published there.

        I know where the the bodies were buried.

        Is this a joke?

        Robin

        I think you have too many buttons concerned with academic accuracy, Robble.

        The Expert


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 22:09:06 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 22:09:06 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
In-Reply-To: <03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com>
	<004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510081909k6701a1car95e2b0840ca10791@mail.gmail.com>

Robin,
 The date came from a Penguin *Early Writings: Poems and Prose* that I have
here in hand.
 Jeff Newberry

 On 10/8/05, Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> I hate to say this, but I find this really quite insane.
>  I think for starters 1913 is a little early for Harriet Monroe to be
> publishing Poetry (Chicago).
>  It's sure as hell way too early for any version of "In a Station of the
> Metro" that Ezra Pound ever produced.
>
> The original (*Poetry*, 1913) looks like this:
>
>  The apparition of these faces in the crowd :
> Petals on a wet, black bough .
>  I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the
> poem? Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?
>  Just a theory here. I'm wondering what you all think.
>  Jeff Newberry
>
> It's considered a neo-visual poem in vispo circles. Here's what vispo
> expert Bob Grumman said about it in his Of Manywhere-at-Once (1990): "In its
> proper form (as above, according to Edwin Morgan), it is a visual poem,
> which is to say that the way it appears to the eye enlarges its
> significantly, in this case by showing as well as speaking of the scattered
> faces the poem is about." The expert goes on to speak of the
> "alphaconceptual " importance of its two colons, one at the end of each
> line, the second "leaving the poem open as to where the petals, and faces,
> might go. . . ."
>  Morgan made his claim in Akros (1972).
>  Boy, this is interesting.
>  Given that (I can hope I may say this without contradiction) as I both
> figure in both of Eddie's feschrifts and published in Akros in the
> seventies, this is news to me.
>  I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description. I think he was
> straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early
> poems when he wrote the passage I quote. But the poem is certainly on the
> edge of being a visual poem.
>  As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily
> establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm. The poem is
> unquestionably free verse, for me.
>  I'm not sure just how many of my buttons it's possible to hit, but this
> post sure as hell came close to hitting every one.
>  I published in Poetry (Chicago) when Fred Nims was editor, and it
> actually was difficult to pick-up a copy of Akros in the seventies when I
> *wasn't* published there.
>  I know where the the bodies were burried.
>  Is this a joke?
>  Robin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  8 23:54:21 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 23:54:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
In-Reply-To: <03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com>
	<004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <35A7C18E-B30F-41C4-A67A-AED18F43EC56@earthlink.net>

Too late actually. Monroe founded Poetry (Chicago)
in 1912.

On Oct 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote:

> I hate to say this, but I find this really quite insane.
>
> I think for starters 1913 is a little early for Harriet Monroe to  
> be publishing Poetry (Chicago).

Hal        "Prediction is difficult, especially of the future."
                    --Mark Twain (also attr. to Niels Bohr)

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  9 01:02:20 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 06:02:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
	<731bb17a0510081909k6701a1car95e2b0840ca10791@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <043601c5cc8e$a0c3b550$e8658b56@Robin>

Oops Jeff (and Hal)

I really do seem to be tripping over dates here.

So right, Metro is post-1912

(I actually did go to the the trouble of checking the +Collected Early Poems+.)

But joking aside, there are issues here.

1)  Did Pound publish it in Poetry in 1913?

        [I still find this unlikely, but it looks as if I'm totally wrong here.]

2) Where is there a copy of the first 20 line draft (unless I'm imagining this)?

Sidebar:  Is Metro a visual poem or does it flash Pound's pre-Fenellosa interest in haiku?

I'd always assumed Metro was one of the echt-Imagist pre-haiku Pound Poems

        Issue One -- the basic text.

As to the Akros thingie ...

I really ought to know this.

Somewhere on my shelves I really ought to have a copy of the 1978 issue of Akros.

Split this -- if Eddie was commenting on the the magazine publication of Metro in 1978 in any way, this matters.

    GAGH!!!  

Struck me that there's an obvious way to answer this.  Who knows?  The Shadow knows.

Given that I went to school with Edwin Morgan's bibliographer-of-choice, Hamish Whyte (think the Mariscat Press) an obvious thing to do would be to email Hamish.

Further later.

Robin.

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 3:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


  Robin,

  The date came from a Penguin Early Writings:  Poems and Prose that I have here in hand.

  Jeff Newberry

   
  On 10/8/05, Robin Hamilton <robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com> wrote: 
    I hate to say this, but I find this really quite insane.

    I think for starters 1913 is a little early for Harriet Monroe to be publishing Poetry (Chicago).

    It's sure as hell way too early for any version of "In a Station of the Metro" that Ezra Pound ever produced.
      The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

        The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
        Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
         
        I wonder if Pound's spacing indicates how we're supposed to read the poem?  Does the spacing indicate pauses or emphasis?  

        Just a theory here.  I'm wondering what you all think.

        Jeff Newberry

        It's considered a neo-visual poem in vispo circles.  Here's what vispo expert Bob Grumman said about it in his Of Manywhere-at-Once (1990): "In its proper form (as above, according to Edwin Morgan), it is a visual poem, which is to say that the way it appears to the eye enlarges its significantly, in this case by showing as well as speaking of the scattered faces the poem is about."  The expert goes on to speak of the "alphaconceptual " importance of its two colons, one at the end of each line, the second "leaving the poem open as to where the petals, and faces, might go. . . ." 

        Morgan made his claim in Akros (1972).  

        Boy, this is interesting.

        Given that (I can hope I may say this without contradiction) as I both figure in both of Eddie's feschrifts and published in Akros in the seventies, this is news to me.

        I'm not sure I now agree with the expert's description.  I think he was straining a little to find the visiopoetic and the alphaconceptual in early poems when he wrote the passage I quote.  But the poem is certainly on the edge of being a visual poem. 

        As for its scansion, I don't think of scansion as necessarily establishing meter, just as a way of indicating rhythm.  The poem is unquestionably free verse, for me.

        I'm not sure just how many of my buttons it's possible to hit, but this post sure as hell came close to hitting every one.

        I published in Poetry (Chicago) when Fred Nims was editor, and it actually was difficult to pick-up a copy of Akros in the seventies when I *wasn't* published there.

        I know where the the bodies were burried.

        Is this a joke?

        Robin

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno

  Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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ish.

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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  9 02:14:42 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 07:14:42 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
	<00ac01c5cc6f$d6925e80$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <049201c5cc98$bcf734e0$e8658b56@Robin>

I think you have too many buttons concerned with academic accuracy, Robble.

        The Expert


  Do you know, Bob, that's damn true.

  On the other hand, where would the world be without amateur hunter-killers like me?

  R.
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sun Oct  9 02:49:23 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 07:49:23 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin><00ac01c5cc6f$d6925e80$6eb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<03fa01c5cc74$929f6740$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <001701c5cc9d$965a76d0$03e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

Of course, if read by an upper-class Brit of the period the first line would have read:


The appaWIHshon of these fACes in the cWOWd

Grin

dave


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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sun Oct  9 03:05:20 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 08:05:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin>
	<35A7C18E-B30F-41C4-A67A-AED18F43EC56@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <002f01c5cc9f$d0921c70$03e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

My understanding is that Pound first drafted the poem in 1911 after a trip to Paris. Coming out of the metro at La Concorde he "suddenly he saw a beautuful face, and then another and another, and then a beautiful child's face, and then another beautiful woman, and I tried all day to find words for what they had meant to me, and I could not find any words that seemed worthy, or as lovely as that sudden emotion". He worked at, and abbreviated the poem for over a year, so it was certainly available from some time in 1912. Imagist poems were certainly appearing in Harriet Monroe's Poetry by 1913 but I don't have information on where In a Station of the Metro first appeared.

Best

Dave


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 4:54 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


  Too late actually. Monroe founded Poetry (Chicago)
  in 1912.


  On Oct 8, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Robin Hamilton wrote:


    I hate to say this, but I find this really quite insane.

    I think for starters 1913 is a little early for Harriet Monroe to be publishing Poetry (Chicago).


  Hal        "Prediction is difficult, especially of the future."
                     --Mark Twain (also attr. to Niels Bohr)


  Halvard Johnson
  ================
  email: halvard at earthlink.net
             halvard at gmail.com
  website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
  blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                 http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com






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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  9 06:20:54 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 06:20:54 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin><731bb17a0510081909k6701a1car95e2b0840ca10791@mail.gmail.com>
	<043601c5cc8e$a0c3b550$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <003601c5ccbb$226f3030$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

My Noel Stock biography of Pound says he wrote the Metro poem in 1911.

BG
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sun Oct  9 06:50:00 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:50:00 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin><731bb17a0510081909k6701a1car95e2b0840ca10791@mail.gmail.com><043601c5cc8e$a0c3b550$e8658b56@Robin>
	<003601c5ccbb$226f3030$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <003d01c5ccbf$32a65ab0$1ae8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

I think one thing that's been not focused on in this discussion is that the poem is not:

The apparition of the faces in the crowd;
Petals on a wet, black bough.


it is:

In a Station of the Metro.

The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
Petals on a wet, black bough.

That is to say the title functions as a ghost line, and thereby creates a haiku like structure: two shorter lines enveloping a longer middle line. Like the two lines of the main body, the title line too is capable of variable stress analysis: anything from two to four beats depending on how you want it. Just as the main text is either three or four beats a line. I'd posit that the rhythmic ambiguity is a part of the poem's success, that it re-enacts the 'what escapes words' nature of the experience that lead to the poem.

Best

Dave

 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 11:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


  My Noel Stock biography of Pound says he wrote the Metro poem in 1911.

  BG


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  9 08:40:36 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 08:40:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin><731bb17a0510081909k6701a1car95e2b0840ca10791@mail.gmail.com><043601c5cc8e$a0c3b550$e8658b56@Robin><003601c5ccbb$226f3030$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<003d01c5ccbf$32a65ab0$1ae8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>
Message-ID: <006901c5ccce$a65402a0$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  I think one thing that's been not focused on in this discussion is that the poem is not:

  The apparition of the faces in the crowd;
  Petals on a wet, black bough.


  it is:

  In a Station of the Metro.

  The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
  Petals on a wet, black bough.

  That is to say the title functions as a ghost line, and thereby creates a haiku like structure: two shorter lines enveloping a longer middle line. Like the two lines of the main body, the title line too is capable of variable stress analysis: anything from two to four beats depending on how you want it. Just as the main text is either three or four beats a line. I'd posit that the rhythmic ambiguity is a part of the poem's success, that it re-enacts the 'what escapes words' nature of the experience that lead to the poem.

  Best

  Dave

  Good thoughts--but, ironically, the title prevents the poem from being a haiku by making it way too long.  I still consider it a haiku with a title, myself.  The fastidious in the haiku world do not allow haiku to have titles, though, I don't believe.

  --Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 10:46:24 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 10:46:24 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
Message-ID: <196.48af701d.307a8740@aol.com>

Robin, why did the stress shift position in 'apparition'
from your first post to your second. Variable foot?
Finnegan

In a message dated 10/7/2005 3:11:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes:
Two lines, basic four stress:

        The (APPpaRITion) of these FACES in a CROWD
        PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH.

{Except it's important that the third ictus in the first line carries a
slightly lighter stress}

In a message dated 10/7/2005 9:12:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes:
The APPariTION  of these FACes  in a CROWD
PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH

Metro is two lines of four-stress metre -- who argues with this?
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sun Oct  9 11:45:30 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 16:45:30 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <BF6D580A.14DDA%grahamd@ripon.edu><004601c5cc26$82bff950$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><731bb17a0510081004h4f779436nc76cac9a4c6b7006@mail.gmail.com><004101c5cc30$6d30d320$4fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><03bd01c5cc63$14038210$e8658b56@Robin><731bb17a0510081909k6701a1car95e2b0840ca10791@mail.gmail.com><043601c5cc8e$a0c3b550$e8658b56@Robin><003601c5ccbb$226f3030$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><003d01c5ccbf$32a65ab0$1ae8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>
	<006901c5ccce$a65402a0$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <002501c5cce8$7b1aa570$cee8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

Good thoughts--but, ironically, the title prevents the poem from being a haiku by making it way too long.  I still consider it a haiku with a title, myself.  The fastidious in the haiku world do not allow haiku to have titles, though, I don't believe.

--Bob G.

Absolutely, Bob, it is a quasi-haiku, an approximation, a product of the age of indeterminacy that had suddenly come on, post contra all the 'absolutely's' that were.

Dat includes da rhythm.

Best

Dave


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 1:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'



   
    I think one thing that's been not focused on in this discussion is that the poem is not:

    The apparition of the faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.


    it is:

    In a Station of the Metro.

    The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.

    That is to say the title functions as a ghost line, and thereby creates a haiku like structure: two shorter lines enveloping a longer middle line. Like the two lines of the main body, the title line too is capable of variable stress analysis: anything from two to four beats depending on how you want it. Just as the main text is either three or four beats a line. I'd posit that the rhythmic ambiguity is a part of the poem's success, that it re-enacts the 'what escapes words' nature of the experience that lead to the poem.

    Best

    Dave

    Good thoughts--but, ironically, the title prevents the poem from being a haiku by making it way too long.  I still consider it a haiku with a title, myself.  The fastidious in the haiku world do not allow haiku to have titles, though, I don't believe.

    --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 12:30:31 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:30:31 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <196.48af701d.307a8740@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003601c5ccee$c66fddf0$75e83652@ANNY>

You know 
that might be the slippery foot on volcanic land
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 4:46 PM


  Robin, why did the stress shift position in 'apparition'
  from your first post to your second. Variable foot?
  Finnegan

  In a message dated 10/7/2005 3:11:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes:
    Two lines, basic four stress:

            The (APPpaRITion) of these FACES in a CROWD
            PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH.

    {Except it's important that the third ictus in the first line carries a
    slightly lighter stress}

  In a message dated 10/7/2005 9:12:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes:
    The APPariTION  of these FACes  in a CROWD
    PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH

    Metro is two lines of four-stress metre -- who argues with this?


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  9 12:37:45 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:37:45 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Runaway Spoon Press
References: <196.48af701d.307a8740@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00d401c5ccef$c6f39770$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I had a website for my press that I lost for nearly five years.  It turned up yesterday--that is, I accidentally found myself at it when doing a search on S. Gustav Hagglund, a very little-known but excellent visual poet I once published.  Consequently, I got it updated and visitable in case anyone's curious about the stuff I've published since 1987.
It's at http://comprepoetica.com/RASP/RASP.html. 

--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct  9 12:41:20 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:41:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another blog entry
References: <196.48af701d.307a8740@aol.com>
	<003601c5ccee$c66fddf0$75e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <00e501c5ccf0$479a9ea0$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

      It quotes a post of David Graham's--which I hope is okay with him, by the way.

      9 October 2005: David Graham made some valuable comments about my four operational zones of poems yesterday at New-Poetry. What follows are a post on the matter of mine, then David's comments with my replies interweaving:


      Having thought some about it, I've decided now to add two new zones, one for verbally-mediated sensory perceptions (as opposed to direct ones), and one for the ideas or thought of a poem. I've scanted the latter because I believe any text with a significant amount of ideas disbarred from being a poem--it must be either advocature or informrature (i.e., propaganda or nonfiction). I now realize that all poems have ideas, however vague, and some--many of Stevens's, for sure--have them to a significant degree (although, I contend, never are they the most important elements in the poems).

      It took me a while to name the new zones I want--name them in such a way as to connect them to my knowlecular psychology the way the first four names are. What I've klunkily come up with are "Verbo-Fundaceptual Zone" and "Verbo-Reducticeptual Zone." The first has to do with "verbally-mediated sensory perception," as opposed to the Fundaceptual Zone, which has to do with direct sensory perception. That is, poems (putting aside the elaborately pluraesthetic kind just mentioned) enter the brain as symbols, sounds and, if read, sights. As sounds and sights, they go directly to the appropriate sensory areas in the fundaceptual awareness of the brain, where the subject experiences them. Hence, I feel it reasonable to say they originate in the fundaceptual zone of a poem.


      The symbolic matter of poems, whoever, first go to the verbal sub-awareness of the reducticeptual awareness of the brain. There they awaken sounds and sights and the like--poetic imagery, in brief--that is (secondarily experienced sensually in the fundaceptual awareness. Hence, my saying they originate in the verbo-fundaceptual zone of a poem also makes sense.


      Applying the same logic to the problem of ideas, I make the reducticeptual zone the origin of elements like a poem's abstract structure because I claim (although I'm not fully clear about the reducticeptual awareness) these things are not verbally-mediated. Ideas--"a little learning is a dangerous thing," for instance--first go as a string of symbols into the verbal sub-awareness where they awaken concepts or ideas that are secondarily experienced in the conceptual sub-awareness of the reducticeptual awareness (unless the verbal sub-awareness takes care of verbal reasoning, which is quite possible).


      Whew. I hope what I'd written makes some sense to someone. It's not complicated, but it seems hard to get cogent.

     


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 12:46:11 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:46:11 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Runaway Spoon Press
References: <196.48af701d.307a8740@aol.com>
	<00d401c5ccef$c6f39770$7fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <005801c5ccf0$f46ba5c0$75e83652@ANNY>

Compliments Bob.
I like that _accidentally finding yourself_ worth a note, Anny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 6:37 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] The Runaway Spoon Press


  I had a website for my press that I lost for nearly five years.  It turned up yesterday--that is, I accidentally found myself at it when doing a search on S. Gustav Hagglund, a very little-known but excellent visual poet I once published.  Consequently, I got it updated and visitable in case anyone's curious about the stuff I've published since 1987.
  It's at http://comprepoetica.com/RASP/RASP.html. 

  --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  9 13:14:01 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:14:01 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <196.48af701d.307a8740@aol.com>
Message-ID: <056c01c5ccf4$d82272f0$e8658b56@Robin>

Um yeah well ...

There are two problems here.

One is (why the Brits adopted syallable accent metre) it's bloody difficult
to work out the natural stress rules for any word longer than two syllables.

The base rule is that the natural voice stress hits the second syllable of a
word -- axe -SENT.

Nobody in their right mind ever uses anything longer than a two syllable
word when writing free verse.

Now there's an obvious problem with "apparition" -- four syllables however
you cut it, ap-pur-i-sh'n.

You can tame it -- well, you can tame anything in s/a -- but it's a total
bugger if you try to fit it into a free verse line -- where do the stresses
fall?

Add to THAT (as dave bircumshaw pointed out) is Metro a two line poem with a
title or a three-line-poem?

In the toll of years, I'd see it (now) as a three-line poem, not a haiku but
a before-the-day example of WCW's  aspodel that dreamy flower three line
dropped dropped stanza.

Except of course that only works if you read/speak American.

I wish Pound had never written the poem.

Equally I wish Auden had never written the fourth and fifth lines of his
first version of "Lullaby".

Robin

















----- Original Message ----- 
From: JforJames at aol.com
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] need help on scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


Robin, why did the stress shift position in 'apparition'
from your first post to your second. Variable foot?
Finnegan

In a message dated 10/7/2005 3:11:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes:
Two lines, basic four stress:

        The (APPpaRITion) of these FACES in a CROWD
        PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH.

{Except it's important that the third ictus in the first line carries a
slightly lighter stress}

In a message dated 10/7/2005 9:12:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com writes:
The APPariTION  of these FACes  in a CROWD
PETals on a WET BLACK BOUGH

Metro is two lines of four-stress metre -- who argues with this?



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Sun Oct  9 13:57:47 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:57:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] In the ...
Message-ID: <05a701c5ccfa$f52f5f60$e8658b56@Robin>

... chaos of metrics, I think possibly the worst is the the septameter line.

Auden once began a poem:

    "Get there if you can and see the land you once were proud to own ..."

When I was young&innocent, I attempted to argue that this derived from "A Toccato of Gallupi" but in fact it's a lift from Tennyson's "Locksley Hall".

R.

Dust and ashes, dead and done with, Venice spent what Venice earned ...

What of soul was left I wonder, when the kissing had to stop?
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 14:17:36 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:17:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] What would you do for your art?
Message-ID: <156.5b0fed4e.307ab8c0@aol.com>

_http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/353589p-301483c.html_ 
(http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/353589p-301483c.html) 
 
Cops call off hunt for B'klyn poet 


The NYPD  suspended the search yesterday for a Brooklyn poet who apparently 
drowned in the  Hudson River on Wednesday, a decision that angered his 
distraught mother.
 
The young man, Dennis Kim, 22, jumped off the Christopher St. pier in the  
West Village Wednesday to retrieve a book bag filled with his writings,  
witnesses said.

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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 14:22:26 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:22:26 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
Message-ID: <1aa.4048e004.307ab9e2@aol.com>

Last night, while suffering my recuperation from the Hartford  Marathon,
I was reading Mina Loy's "Modern Poetry" (first published in 1925).  It's
nice when list discussion converges with one's reading. Here are  a few
things she says in that short essay:
 
"The structure of all poetry is the movement that an active individuality  
makes in expressing itself. Poetic rhythm, of which we have all spoken so much,  
is the chart of a temperament."

That "chart of a temperament" seems an appropriate metaphor for what free  
verse
is.
 
On Ez, she says.... 

"To speak of the modern movement is to speak of [Ezra Pound]; the  masterly 
impresario of modern poets, for without the discoveries he made with  his poet?
s instinct for poetry, this modern movement would be still be rather a  nebula 
than the constellation it has become."
 
--
Finnegan
 


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 14:36:16 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:36:16 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
Message-ID: <8.72198aa7.307abd20@aol.com>

I meant to add that the Mina Loy piece was in a nice collection
of modernist and proto-modernist texts on the art of poetry, 
called _Toward An Open Field_, edited by Melissa Kwansy, 
Wesleyan U. Press, 2004. (I'm sure some of you who teach poetry
have seen this book or use it as a class textbook.)
 
One last Loy quote (the first line of her essay, and something Anny 
can add to her "What is Poetry?" web page)...
 
"Poetry is prose bewitched, a music made of visual thoughts, the sound of  an 
idea."
--Mina Loy, "Modern Poetry", 1925
 
--
Finnegan 
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From matthew.shindell at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 16:06:17 2005
From: matthew.shindell at gmail.com (Matthew Shindell)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:06:17 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] My Vocabulary back on the air
Message-ID: <3f273e940510091306w7f745e3dwde900a79d61bb76e@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to give everybody a heads up and let you know that My Vocabulary
will be back on the air for real next Sunday from 4 to 6pm (local San Diego
time, so please adjust for your own timezone). You can still tune into us
live online at http://ksdt.ucsd.edu, and we hope you will.

We also hope you'll continue to send us mp3s of you reading your own poems
so we can continue to play them on the show. You can send them to our gmail
account, MyVocabulary at gmail.com, or you can visit our blog at
http://myvocabulary.blogpsot.com for information about other ways of
submitting your recorded poems to us. We do have the number for an audioblog
there that you can call, leave poems, messages, ideas, whatever. So give it
a try.

And if you're looking for something to listen to tonight, go ahead and tune
in. We'll be there in the studio for our normal time slot, screwing around
this week just to get our legs back. We won't be playing much poetry
tonight, but we'll be having a good time with some of our favorite music.

And if you want to bug us while we do the show, you can IM us on AIM at the
screen name myvocabularyksdt.

--
Matthew Shindell
Position of No Authority
La Jolla, CA
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From matthew.shindell at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 16:20:09 2005
From: matthew.shindell at gmail.com (Matthew Shindell)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:20:09 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] one correction
Message-ID: <3f273e940510091320v78e18271x40d8141c08536a44@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry. I screwed up in that last email and gave you the wrong address for
our blog. What a difference one transposition makes!

We're actually located at http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com. As it turns out,
http://myvocabulary.blogpsot.com is some kind of mega bible study site.

--
Matthew Shindell
Position of No Authority
La Jolla, CA
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 16:34:02 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:34:02 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
References: <1aa.4048e004.307ab9e2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c5cd10$c94e7460$75e83652@ANNY>


Compliments for the Marathon_ I rested all day in the hope the principle of camels suits humans for my next working week_

and thank you for Mina Loy, this page is becoming extremely interesting:
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=287

Anny

  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 8:22 PM


  Last night, while suffering my recuperation from the Hartford Marathon,
  I was reading Mina Loy's "Modern Poetry" (first published in 1925). It's
  nice when list discussion converges with one's reading. Here are a few
  things she says in that short essay:

  "The structure of all poetry is the movement that an active individuality makes in expressing itself. Poetic rhythm, of which we have all spoken so much, is the chart of a temperament."

  That "chart of a temperament" seems an appropriate metaphor for what free verse
  is.

  On Ez, she says.... 

  "To speak of the modern movement is to speak of [Ezra Pound]; the masterly impresario of modern poets, for without the discoveries he made with his poet?s instinct for poetry, this modern movement would be still be rather a nebula than the constellation it has become."

  --
  Finnegan


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 16:37:40 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:37:40 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
Message-ID: <004001c5cd11$4b1877c0$75e83652@ANNY>

Wallace Stevens 

___________

THE BRAVE MAN

The sun, that brave man,
Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
That brave man.

Green and gloomy eyes
In dark forms of the grass
Run away.

The good stars,
Pale helms and spiky spurs,
Run away.

Fears of my bed,
Fears of life and fears of death,
Run away.

That brave man comes up
>From below and walks without meditation,
That brave man.

WALLACE STEVENS
Collected - Library of America

I put it on my blog yesterday

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct  9 16:44:39 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:44:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
In-Reply-To: <004001c5cd11$4b1877c0$75e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <BF6EEB67.14E3E%grahamd@ripon.edu>


Gubbinal

That strange flower, the sun,
Is just what you say.
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.

That tuft of jungle feather,
That animal eye,
Is just what you say.

That savage of fire,
That seed,
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.


--Wallace Stevens
-------------------------------------

Wallace Stevens 
___________

THE BRAVE MAN

The sun, that brave man,
Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
That brave man.

Green and gloomy eyes
In dark forms of the grass
Run away.

The good stars,
Pale helms and spiky spurs,
Run away.

Fears of my bed,
Fears of life and fears of death,
Run away.

That brave man comes up
>From below and walks without meditation,
That brave man.

WALLACE STEVENS
Collected ? Library of America




====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 16:56:53 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:56:53 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
References: <BF6EEB67.14E3E%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <006401c5cd13$fa350aa0$75e83652@ANNY>

the brave manMETAMORPHOSIS

Yillow, yillow, yillow,
Old work, my pretty quirk,
How the wind spells out
Sep - tem - ber. . . . 

Summer is in bones.
Cock-robin's at Caracas.
Make o, make o, make o,
Oto - otu - bre.

And the rude leaves fall.
The rain falls. The sky
Falls and lies with the worms.
The street lamps

Are those that have been hanged,
Dangling in an illogical
To and to and fro
Fro Niz - nil - imbo.

Wallace Stevens



  Gubbinal

  That strange flower, the sun,
  Is just what you say.
  Have it your way.

  The world is ugly,
  And the people are sad.

  That tuft of jungle feather,
  That animal eye,
  Is just what you say.

  That savage of fire, 
  That seed,
  Have it your way.

  The world is ugly,
  And the people are sad.


  --Wallace Stevens
  -------------------------------------


    Wallace Stevens 
    ___________

    THE BRAVE MAN

    The sun, that brave man,
    Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
    That brave man.

    Green and gloomy eyes
    In dark forms of the grass
    Run away.

    The good stars,
    Pale helms and spiky spurs,
    Run away.

    Fears of my bed,
    Fears of life and fears of death,
    Run away.

    That brave man comes up
    >From below and walks without meditation,
    That brave man.

    WALLACE STEVENS
    Collected - Library of America





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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct  9 17:04:03 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:04:03 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
In-Reply-To: <006401c5cd13$fa350aa0$75e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <BF6EEFF2.14E47%grahamd@ripon.edu>


Looking Across The Fields And Watching The Birds Fly

Wallace Stevens

Among the more irritating minor ideas
Of Mr. Homburg during his visits home
To Concord, at the edge of things, was this:

To think away the grass, the trees, the clouds,
Not to transform them into other things,
Is only what the sun does every day,

Until we say to ourselves that there may be
A pensive nature, a mechanical
And slightly detestable operandum, free

>From man's ghost, larger and yet a little like,
Without his literature and without his gods . . .
No doubt we live beyond ourselves in air,

In an element that does not do for us,
so well, that which we do for ourselves, too big,
A thing not planned for imagery or belief,

Not one of the masculine myths we used to make,
A transparency through which the swallow weaves,
Without any form or any sense of form,

What we know in what we see, what we feel in what
We hear, what we are, beyond mystic disputation,
In the tumult of integrations out of the sky,

And what we think, a breathing like the wind,
A moving part of a motion, a discovery
Part of a discovery, a change part of a change,

A sharing of color and being part of it.
The afternoon is visibly a source,
Too wide, too irised, to be more than calm,

Too much like thinking to be less than thought,
Obscurest parent, obscurest patriarch,
A daily majesty of meditation,

That comes and goes in silences of its own.
We think, then as the sun shines or does not.
We think as wind skitters on a pond in a field

Or we put mantles on our words because
The same wind, rising and rising, makes a sound
Like the last muting of winter as it ends.

A new scholar replacing an older one reflects
A moment on this fantasia. He seeks
For a human that can be accounted for.

The spirit comes from the body of the world,
Or so Mr. Homburg thought: the body of a world
Whose blunt laws make an affectation of mind,

The mannerism of nature caught in a glass
And there become a spirit's mannerism,
A glass aswarm with things going as far as they can.



on 10/9/05 3:56 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:

METAMORPHOSIS
 
Yillow, yillow, yillow,
Old work, my pretty quirk,
How the wind spells out
Sep - tem - ber. . . .
 
Summer is in bones.
Cock-robin's at Caracas.
Make o, make o, make o,
Oto - otu - bre.
 
And the rude leaves fall.
The rain falls. The sky
Falls and lies with the worms.
The street lamps
 
Are those that have been hanged,
Dangling in an illogical
To and to and fro
Fro Niz - nil - imbo.
 
Wallace Stevens


Gubbinal

That strange flower, the sun,
Is just what you say.
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.

That tuft of jungle feather,
That animal eye,
Is just what you say.

That savage of fire,
That seed,
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.


--Wallace Stevens
-------------------------------------

Wallace Stevens 
___________

THE BRAVE MAN

The sun, that brave man,
Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
That brave man.

Green and gloomy eyes
In dark forms of the grass
Run away.

The good stars,
Pale helms and spiky spurs,
Run away.

Fears of my bed,
Fears of life and fears of death,
Run away.

That brave man comes up
>From below and walks without meditation,
That brave man.

WALLACE STEVENS
Collected ? Library of America





====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct  9 17:05:00 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:05:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] In the ...
References: <05a701c5ccfa$f52f5f60$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <003d01c5cd15$1cb94b80$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

"Long distance information, give me Memphis, Tennessee"

...but that's just ballad meter, really. What balladeers call "common meter," and hymnals annotate as "C.M."
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robin Hamilton 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 1:57 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] In the ...


  ... chaos of metrics, I think possibly the worst is the the septameter line.

  Auden once began a poem:

      "Get there if you can and see the land you once were proud to own ..."

  When I was young&innocent, I attempted to argue that this derived from "A Toccato of Gallupi" but in fact it's a lift from Tennyson's "Locksley Hall".

  R.

  Dust and ashes, dead and done with, Venice spent what Venice earned ...

  What of soul was left I wonder, when the kissing had to stop?



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 17:18:10 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:18:10 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
References: <BF6EEFF2.14E47%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <008c01c5cd16$f434c200$75e83652@ANNY>

the brave manTHE PLANET ON THE TABLE

Ariel was glad he had written his poems.
They were of a remembered time
Or of something seen that he liked.

Other makings of the sun
Were waste and welter
And the ripe shrub writhed.

His self and the sun were one
And his poems, although makings of his self,
Were no less makings of the sun.

It was not important that they survive.
What mattered was that they should bear
Some lineament or character,

Some affluence, if only half-perceived,
In the poverty of their words,
Of the planet of which they were part.

Wallace Stevens
  From: David Graham 




  Looking Across The Fields And Watching The Birds Fly


  Wallace Stevens


  Among the more irritating minor ideas
  Of Mr. Homburg during his visits home
  To Concord, at the edge of things, was this:

  To think away the grass, the trees, the clouds,
  Not to transform them into other things,
  Is only what the sun does every day,

  Until we say to ourselves that there may be
  A pensive nature, a mechanical
  And slightly detestable operandum, free

  >From man's ghost, larger and yet a little like,
  Without his literature and without his gods . . .
  No doubt we live beyond ourselves in air,

  In an element that does not do for us,
  so well, that which we do for ourselves, too big,
  A thing not planned for imagery or belief,

  Not one of the masculine myths we used to make,
  A transparency through which the swallow weaves,
  Without any form or any sense of form,

  What we know in what we see, what we feel in what
  We hear, what we are, beyond mystic disputation,
  In the tumult of integrations out of the sky,

  And what we think, a breathing like the wind,
  A moving part of a motion, a discovery
  Part of a discovery, a change part of a change,

  A sharing of color and being part of it.
  The afternoon is visibly a source,
  Too wide, too irised, to be more than calm,

  Too much like thinking to be less than thought,
  Obscurest parent, obscurest patriarch,
  A daily majesty of meditation,

  That comes and goes in silences of its own.
  We think, then as the sun shines or does not.
  We think as wind skitters on a pond in a field

  Or we put mantles on our words because
  The same wind, rising and rising, makes a sound
  Like the last muting of winter as it ends.

  A new scholar replacing an older one reflects
  A moment on this fantasia. He seeks
  For a human that can be accounted for.

  The spirit comes from the body of the world,
  Or so Mr. Homburg thought: the body of a world
  Whose blunt laws make an affectation of mind,

  The mannerism of nature caught in a glass
  And there become a spirit's mannerism,
  A glass aswarm with things going as far as they can.



  on 10/9/05 3:56 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:


    METAMORPHOSIS

    Yillow, yillow, yillow,
    Old work, my pretty quirk,
    How the wind spells out
    Sep - tem - ber. . . . 

    Summer is in bones.
    Cock-robin's at Caracas.
    Make o, make o, make o,
    Oto - otu - bre.

    And the rude leaves fall.
    The rain falls. The sky
    Falls and lies with the worms.
    The street lamps

    Are those that have been hanged,
    Dangling in an illogical
    To and to and fro
    Fro Niz - nil - imbo.

    Wallace Stevens



      Gubbinal

      That strange flower, the sun,
      Is just what you say.
      Have it your way.

      The world is ugly,
      And the people are sad.

      That tuft of jungle feather,
      That animal eye,
      Is just what you say.

      That savage of fire, 
      That seed,
      Have it your way.

      The world is ugly,
      And the people are sad.


      --Wallace Stevens
      -------------------------------------


        Wallace Stevens 
        ___________

        THE BRAVE MAN

        The sun, that brave man,
        Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
        That brave man.

        Green and gloomy eyes
        In dark forms of the grass
        Run away.

        The good stars,
        Pale helms and spiky spurs,
        Run away.

        Fears of my bed,
        Fears of life and fears of death,
        Run away.

        That brave man comes up
        >From below and walks without meditation,
        That brave man.

        WALLACE STEVENS
        Collected - Library of America







  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct  9 17:23:54 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:23:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
In-Reply-To: <008c01c5cd16$f434c200$75e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <BF6EF49A.14E4B%grahamd@ripon.edu>


Debris Of Life And Mind

There is so little that is close and warm.
It is as if we were never children.

Sit in the room.  It is true in the moonlight
That it is as if we had never been young.

We ought not to awake.  It is from this
That a bright red woman will be rising

And, standing in violent golds, will brush her hair.
She will speak thoughtfully the words of a line.

She will think about them not quite able to sing.
Besides, when the sky is so blue, things sing themselves,

Even for her, already for her.  She will listen
And feel that her color is a meditation,

The most gay and yet not so gay as it was.
Stay here.  Speak of familiar things for a while.

--Wallace Stevens


on 10/9/05 4:18 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:

THE PLANET ON THE TABLE
 
Ariel was glad he had written his poems.
They were of a remembered time
Or of something seen that he liked.
 
Other makings of the sun
Were waste and welter
And the ripe shrub writhed.
 
His self and the sun were one
And his poems, although makings of his self,
Were no less makings of the sun.
 
It was not important that they survive.
What mattered was that they should bear
Some lineament or character,
 
Some affluence, if only half-perceived,
In the poverty of their words,
Of the planet of which they were part.
 
Wallace Stevens
From: David Graham <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>


Looking Across The Fields And Watching The Birds Fly

Wallace Stevens

Among the more irritating minor ideas
Of Mr. Homburg during his visits home
To Concord, at the edge of things, was this:

To think away the grass, the trees, the clouds,
Not to transform them into other things,
Is only what the sun does every day,

Until we say to ourselves that there may be
A pensive nature, a mechanical
And slightly detestable operandum, free

>From man's ghost, larger and yet a little like,
Without his literature and without his gods . . .
No doubt we live beyond ourselves in air,

In an element that does not do for us,
so well, that which we do for ourselves, too big,
A thing not planned for imagery or belief,

Not one of the masculine myths we used to make,
A transparency through which the swallow weaves,
Without any form or any sense of form,

What we know in what we see, what we feel in what
We hear, what we are, beyond mystic disputation,
In the tumult of integrations out of the sky,

And what we think, a breathing like the wind,
A moving part of a motion, a discovery
Part of a discovery, a change part of a change,

A sharing of color and being part of it.
The afternoon is visibly a source,
Too wide, too irised, to be more than calm,

Too much like thinking to be less than thought,
Obscurest parent, obscurest patriarch,
A daily majesty of meditation,

That comes and goes in silences of its own.
We think, then as the sun shines or does not.
We think as wind skitters on a pond in a field

Or we put mantles on our words because
The same wind, rising and rising, makes a sound
Like the last muting of winter as it ends.

A new scholar replacing an older one reflects
A moment on this fantasia. He seeks
For a human that can be accounted for.

The spirit comes from the body of the world,
Or so Mr. Homburg thought: the body of a world
Whose blunt laws make an affectation of mind,

The mannerism of nature caught in a glass
And there become a spirit's mannerism,
A glass aswarm with things going as far as they can.



on 10/9/05 3:56 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:

METAMORPHOSIS

Yillow, yillow, yillow,
Old work, my pretty quirk,
How the wind spells out
Sep - tem - ber. . . .

Summer is in bones.
Cock-robin's at Caracas.
Make o, make o, make o,
Oto - otu - bre.

And the rude leaves fall.
The rain falls. The sky
Falls and lies with the worms.
The street lamps

Are those that have been hanged,
Dangling in an illogical
To and to and fro
Fro Niz - nil - imbo.

Wallace Stevens


Gubbinal

That strange flower, the sun,
Is just what you say.
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.

That tuft of jungle feather,
That animal eye,
Is just what you say.

That savage of fire,
That seed,
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.


--Wallace Stevens
-------------------------------------

Wallace Stevens 
___________

THE BRAVE MAN

The sun, that brave man,
Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
That brave man.

Green and gloomy eyes
In dark forms of the grass
Run away.

The good stars,
Pale helms and spiky spurs,
Run away.

Fears of my bed,
Fears of life and fears of death,
Run away.

That brave man comes up
>From below and walks without meditation,
That brave man.

WALLACE STEVENS
Collected ? Library of America



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 17:45:16 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:45:16 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
References: <BF6EF49A.14E4B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00ab01c5cd1a$bd145fc0$75e83652@ANNY>

the brave manDESIRE AND THE OBJECT

It is curious that I should have spoken of Rael,
When it never existed, the order
That I desired. It could be-

Curious that I should have spoken of Jaffa
By her sexual name, saying that that high marriage
Could be, it could be.

I had not invented my own thoughts,
When I was sleeping, nor by day,
So that thinking was a madness, and is:

It was to be as mad as everyone was,
And is. Perhaps I had been moved
By feeling the like of thought in sleep,

So that feeling was a madness, and is.
Consider that I had asked
Was it desire that created Rael

Or was it Jaffa that created desire?
The origin could have its origin.
It could be, could be.

It could be that the sun shines
Because I desire it to shine or else
That I desire it to shine because it shines.


Wallace Stevens

  From: David Graham 
  Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 11:23 PM



  Debris Of Life And Mind

  There is so little that is close and warm.
  It is as if we were never children.

  Sit in the room.  It is true in the moonlight
  That it is as if we had never been young.

  We ought not to awake.  It is from this
  That a bright red woman will be rising

  And, standing in violent golds, will brush her hair.
  She will speak thoughtfully the words of a line.

  She will think about them not quite able to sing.
  Besides, when the sky is so blue, things sing themselves,

  Even for her, already for her.  She will listen
  And feel that her color is a meditation,

  The most gay and yet not so gay as it was.
  Stay here.  Speak of familiar things for a while.

  --Wallace Stevens


  on 10/9/05 4:18 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:


    THE PLANET ON THE TABLE

    Ariel was glad he had written his poems.
    They were of a remembered time
    Or of something seen that he liked.

    Other makings of the sun
    Were waste and welter
    And the ripe shrub writhed.

    His self and the sun were one
    And his poems, although makings of his self,
    Were no less makings of the sun.

    It was not important that they survive.
    What mattered was that they should bear
    Some lineament or character,

    Some affluence, if only half-perceived,
    In the poverty of their words,
    Of the planet of which they were part.

    Wallace Stevens

      From: David Graham <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>  


      Looking Across The Fields And Watching The Birds Fly

      Wallace Stevens

      Among the more irritating minor ideas
      Of Mr. Homburg during his visits home
      To Concord, at the edge of things, was this:

      To think away the grass, the trees, the clouds,
      Not to transform them into other things,
      Is only what the sun does every day,

      Until we say to ourselves that there may be
      A pensive nature, a mechanical
      And slightly detestable operandum, free

      >From man's ghost, larger and yet a little like,
      Without his literature and without his gods . . .
      No doubt we live beyond ourselves in air,

      In an element that does not do for us,
      so well, that which we do for ourselves, too big,
      A thing not planned for imagery or belief,

      Not one of the masculine myths we used to make,
      A transparency through which the swallow weaves,
      Without any form or any sense of form,

      What we know in what we see, what we feel in what
      We hear, what we are, beyond mystic disputation,
      In the tumult of integrations out of the sky,

      And what we think, a breathing like the wind,
      A moving part of a motion, a discovery
      Part of a discovery, a change part of a change,

      A sharing of color and being part of it.
      The afternoon is visibly a source,
      Too wide, too irised, to be more than calm,

      Too much like thinking to be less than thought,
      Obscurest parent, obscurest patriarch,
      A daily majesty of meditation,

      That comes and goes in silences of its own.
      We think, then as the sun shines or does not.
      We think as wind skitters on a pond in a field

      Or we put mantles on our words because
      The same wind, rising and rising, makes a sound
      Like the last muting of winter as it ends.

      A new scholar replacing an older one reflects
      A moment on this fantasia. He seeks
      For a human that can be accounted for.

      The spirit comes from the body of the world,
      Or so Mr. Homburg thought: the body of a world
      Whose blunt laws make an affectation of mind,

      The mannerism of nature caught in a glass
      And there become a spirit's mannerism,
      A glass aswarm with things going as far as they can.



      on 10/9/05 3:56 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:


        METAMORPHOSIS

        Yillow, yillow, yillow,
        Old work, my pretty quirk,
        How the wind spells out
        Sep - tem - ber. . . . 

        Summer is in bones.
        Cock-robin's at Caracas.
        Make o, make o, make o,
        Oto - otu - bre.

        And the rude leaves fall.
        The rain falls. The sky
        Falls and lies with the worms.
        The street lamps

        Are those that have been hanged,
        Dangling in an illogical
        To and to and fro
        Fro Niz - nil - imbo.

        Wallace Stevens



          Gubbinal

          That strange flower, the sun,
          Is just what you say.
          Have it your way.

          The world is ugly,
          And the people are sad.

          That tuft of jungle feather,
          That animal eye,
          Is just what you say.

          That savage of fire, 
          That seed,
          Have it your way.

          The world is ugly,
          And the people are sad.


          --Wallace Stevens
          -------------------------------------


            Wallace Stevens 
            ___________

            THE BRAVE MAN

            The sun, that brave man,
            Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
            That brave man.

            Green and gloomy eyes
            In dark forms of the grass
            Run away.

            The good stars,
            Pale helms and spiky spurs,
            Run away.

            Fears of my bed,
            Fears of life and fears of death,
            Run away.

            That brave man comes up
            >From below and walks without meditation,
            That brave man.

            WALLACE STEVENS
            Collected - Library of America





  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct  9 17:51:39 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 23:51:39 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
References: <BF6EF49A.14E4B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<00ab01c5cd1a$bd145fc0$75e83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <00c401c5cd1b$a0d80590$75e83652@ANNY>

the brave manThank you David for this wonderful development,
Cindarella here, midnight has struck, and tomorrow morning a couple of alarm clocks will ring as loud as they can_

sorry, Anny
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 19:37:33 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:37:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Poem For . . .
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510091637u20d9967dkc42a59d03c9d5440@mail.gmail.com>

Epigram for the Atlanta Braves
 Eighteen innings and we lost the game!
If we'd had only one more, we'd have done the same.
 Sheesh. I'm tired of saying "next year, next year." And I've been a fan
since the Bob Horner/Dale Murphy days.
 Jeff Newberry
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 19:55:30 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:55:30 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
Message-ID: <105.6a8fdca9.307b07f2@aol.com>

 
 
Of Mere Being 
The palm at the end of the  mind, 
Beyond the last thought,  rises 
In the bronze distance, 
A gold-feathered bird 
Sings in the palm, without human  meaning, 
Without human feeling, a foreign  song. 
You know then that it is not the  reason 
That makes us happy or  unhappy. 
The bird sings. Its feathers  shine. 
The palm stands on the edge of  space. 
The wind moves slowly in the  branches. 
The bird's fire-fangled feathers  dangle down. 
--Wallace Stevens
 
In a message dated 10/9/2005 5:46:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

DESIRE AND THE OBJECT
 
It is curious that I should have spoken of Rael,
When it never existed, the order
That I desired. It could be-
 
Curious that I should have spoken of Jaffa
By her sexual name, saying that that high marriage
Could be, it could be.
 
I had not invented my own thoughts,
When I was sleeping, nor by day,
So that thinking was a madness, and is:
 
It was to be as mad as everyone was,
And is. Perhaps I had been moved
By feeling the like of thought in sleep,
 
So that feeling was a madness, and is.
Consider that I had asked
Was it desire that created Rael
 
Or was it Jaffa that created desire?
The origin could have its origin.
It could be, could be.
 
It could be that the sun shines
Because I desire it to shine or else
That I desire it to shine because it shines.
 
 
Wallace Stevens

 
From:  _David  Graham_ (mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu)  
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 11:23  PM



Debris Of Life And  Mind

There is so little that is close and warm.
It is as if we  were never children.

Sit in the room.  It is true in the  moonlight
That it is as if we had never been young.

We ought not  to awake.  It is from this
That a bright red woman will be  rising

And, standing in violent golds, will brush her hair.
She  will speak thoughtfully the words of a line.

She will think about  them not quite able to sing.
Besides, when the sky is so blue, things  sing themselves,

Even for her, already for her.  She will  listen
And feel that her color is a meditation,

The most gay and  yet not so gay as it was.
Stay here.  Speak of familiar things for a  while.

--Wallace  Stevens


on 10/9/05 4:18 PM, Anny Ballardini at  anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:


THE PLANET ON THE  TABLE

Ariel was glad he had written his  poems.
They were of a remembered time
Or of something seen that he  liked.

Other makings of the sun
Were  waste and welter
And the ripe shrub writhed.

His self and the sun were one
And his poems, although  makings of his self,
Were no less makings of the  sun.

It was not important that they  survive.
What mattered was that they should bear
Some lineament or  character,

Some affluence, if only  half-perceived,
In the poverty of their words,
Of the planet of  which they were part.

Wallace  Stevens

From: David Graham <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>  


Looking  Across The Fields And Watching The Birds  Fly

Wallace  Stevens

Among the more irritating  minor ideas
Of Mr. Homburg during his visits home
To Concord, at  the edge of things, was this:

To think away the grass, the trees,  the clouds,
Not to transform them into other things,
Is only what  the sun does every day,

Until we say to ourselves that there may  be
A pensive nature, a mechanical
And slightly detestable  operandum, free

>From man's ghost, larger and yet a little  like,
Without his literature and without his gods . . .
No doubt  we live beyond ourselves in air,

In an element that does not do  for us,
so well, that which we do for ourselves, too big,
A thing  not planned for imagery or belief,

Not one of the masculine myths  we used to make,
A transparency through which the swallow  weaves,
Without any form or any sense of form,

What we know in  what we see, what we feel in what
We hear, what we are, beyond mystic  disputation,
In the tumult of integrations out of the sky,

And  what we think, a breathing like the wind,
A moving part of a motion,  a discovery
Part of a discovery, a change part of a change,

A  sharing of color and being part of it.
The afternoon is visibly a  source,
Too wide, too irised, to be more than calm,

Too much  like thinking to be less than thought,
Obscurest parent, obscurest  patriarch,
A daily majesty of meditation,

That comes and goes  in silences of its own.
We think, then as the sun shines or does  not.
We think as wind skitters on a pond in a field

Or we put  mantles on our words because
The same wind, rising and rising, makes  a sound
Like the last muting of winter as it ends.

A new  scholar replacing an older one reflects
A moment on this fantasia. He  seeks
For a human that can be accounted for.

The spirit comes  from the body of the world,
Or so Mr. Homburg thought: the body of a  world
Whose blunt laws make an affectation of mind,

The  mannerism of nature caught in a glass
And there become a spirit's  mannerism,
A glass aswarm with things going as far as they  can.



on 10/9/05 3:56 PM, Anny Ballardini at  anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:


METAMORPHOSIS

Yillow, yillow, yillow,
Old work, my pretty  quirk,
How the wind spells out
Sep - tem - ber. . . .  

Summer is in  bones.
Cock-robin's at Caracas.
Make o, make o, make o,
Oto -  otu - bre.

And the  rude leaves fall.
The rain falls. The sky
Falls and lies with  the worms.
The street lamps

Are those that have been hanged,
Dangling in an  illogical
To and to and fro
Fro Niz - nil -  imbo.

Wallace  Stevens



Gubbinal

That  strange flower, the sun,
Is just what you say.
Have it your  way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are  sad.

That tuft of jungle feather,
That animal eye,
Is  just what you say.

That savage of fire, 
That  seed,
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the  people are sad.


--Wallace  Stevens
-------------------------------------


Wallace Stevens  
___________

THE BRAVE  MAN

The sun, that brave man,
Comes through boughs  that lie in wait,
That brave man.

Green and gloomy  eyes
In dark forms of the grass
Run away.

The good  stars,
Pale helms and spiky spurs,
Run away.

Fears of  my bed,
Fears of life and fears of death,
Run  away.

That brave man comes up
>From below and walks  without meditation,
That brave man.

WALLACE  STEVENS
Collected ? Library of  America








====================================================
David  Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home  Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry  Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================

 
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing  list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry  mailing  list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 20:02:43 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:02:43 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
Message-ID: <154.5b21297c.307b09a3@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/9/2005 4:34:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

and thank you for Mina Loy, this page is becoming extremely  interesting:
_http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=287_ 
(http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=287) 
 



Anny,
I notice you already had it...clipped to: 'Poetry is prose bewitched.' 
Pretty soon it's going to be tough to find a definition not pinned up
on that page.
Thanks,
Finnegan
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct  9 20:59:18 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:59:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] the brave man
In-Reply-To: <105.6a8fdca9.307b07f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF6F2716.14E5E%grahamd@ripon.edu>


A Clear Day and No Memories

No soldiers in the scenery,
No thoughts of people now dead,
As they were fifty years ago,
Young and living in a live air,
Young and walking in the sunshine,
Bending in blue dresses to touch something,
Today the mind is not part of the weather.

Today the air is clear of everything.
It has no knowledge except of nothingness
And it flows over us without meanings,
As if none of us had ever been here before
And are not now: in this shallow spectacle,
This invisible activity, this sense.

--Wallace Stevens


on 10/9/05 6:55 PM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote:

Of Mere Being 



The palm at the end of the mind,

Beyond the last thought, rises

In the bronze distance,



A gold-feathered bird

Sings in the palm, without human meaning,

Without human feeling, a foreign song.



You know then that it is not the reason

That makes us happy or unhappy.

The bird sings. Its feathers shine.



The palm stands on the edge of space.

The wind moves slowly in the branches.

The bird's fire-fangled feathers dangle down.



--Wallace Stevens

In a message dated 10/9/2005 5:46:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:
DESIRE AND THE OBJECT

It is curious that I should have spoken of Rael,
When it never existed, the order
That I desired. It could be-

Curious that I should have spoken of Jaffa
By her sexual name, saying that that high marriage
Could be, it could be.

I had not invented my own thoughts,
When I was sleeping, nor by day,
So that thinking was a madness, and is:

It was to be as mad as everyone was,
And is. Perhaps I had been moved
By feeling the like of thought in sleep,

So that feeling was a madness, and is.
Consider that I had asked
Was it desire that created Rael

Or was it Jaffa that created desire?
The origin could have its origin.
It could be, could be.

It could be that the sun shines
Because I desire it to shine or else
That I desire it to shine because it shines.


Wallace Stevens
 
From: David Graham <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 11:23 PM


Debris Of Life And Mind

There is so little that is close and warm.
It is as if we were never children.

Sit in the room.  It is true in the moonlight
That it is as if we had never been young.

We ought not to awake.  It is from this
That a bright red woman will be rising

And, standing in violent golds, will brush her hair.
She will speak thoughtfully the words of a line.

She will think about them not quite able to sing.
Besides, when the sky is so blue, things sing themselves,

Even for her, already for her.  She will listen
And feel that her color is a meditation,

The most gay and yet not so gay as it was.
Stay here.  Speak of familiar things for a while.

--Wallace Stevens


on 10/9/05 4:18 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:

THE PLANET ON THE TABLE

Ariel was glad he had written his poems.
They were of a remembered time
Or of something seen that he liked.

Other makings of the sun
Were waste and welter
And the ripe shrub writhed.

His self and the sun were one
And his poems, although makings of his self,
Were no less makings of the sun.

It was not important that they survive.
What mattered was that they should bear
Some lineament or character,

Some affluence, if only half-perceived,
In the poverty of their words,
Of the planet of which they were part.

Wallace Stevens
From: David Graham <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu>


Looking Across The Fields And Watching The Birds Fly

Wallace Stevens

Among the more irritating minor ideas
Of Mr. Homburg during his visits home
To Concord, at the edge of things, was this:

To think away the grass, the trees, the clouds,
Not to transform them into other things,
Is only what the sun does every day,

Until we say to ourselves that there may be
A pensive nature, a mechanical
And slightly detestable operandum, free

>From man's ghost, larger and yet a little like,
Without his literature and without his gods . . .
No doubt we live beyond ourselves in air,

In an element that does not do for us,
so well, that which we do for ourselves, too big,
A thing not planned for imagery or belief,

Not one of the masculine myths we used to make,
A transparency through which the swallow weaves,
Without any form or any sense of form,

What we know in what we see, what we feel in what
We hear, what we are, beyond mystic disputation,
In the tumult of integrations out of the sky,

And what we think, a breathing like the wind,
A moving part of a motion, a discovery
Part of a discovery, a change part of a change,

A sharing of color and being part of it.
The afternoon is visibly a source,
Too wide, too irised, to be more than calm,

Too much like thinking to be less than thought,
Obscurest parent, obscurest patriarch,
A daily majesty of meditation,

That comes and goes in silences of its own.
We think, then as the sun shines or does not.
We think as wind skitters on a pond in a field

Or we put mantles on our words because
The same wind, rising and rising, makes a sound
Like the last muting of winter as it ends.

A new scholar replacing an older one reflects
A moment on this fantasia. He seeks
For a human that can be accounted for.

The spirit comes from the body of the world,
Or so Mr. Homburg thought: the body of a world
Whose blunt laws make an affectation of mind,

The mannerism of nature caught in a glass
And there become a spirit's mannerism,
A glass aswarm with things going as far as they can.



on 10/9/05 3:56 PM, Anny Ballardini at anny.ballardini at tin.it wrote:

METAMORPHOSIS

Yillow, yillow, yillow,
Old work, my pretty quirk,
How the wind spells out
Sep - tem - ber. . . .

Summer is in bones.
Cock-robin's at Caracas.
Make o, make o, make o,
Oto - otu - bre.

And the rude leaves fall.
The rain falls. The sky
Falls and lies with the worms.
The street lamps

Are those that have been hanged,
Dangling in an illogical
To and to and fro
Fro Niz - nil - imbo.

Wallace Stevens


Gubbinal

That strange flower, the sun,
Is just what you say.
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.

That tuft of jungle feather,
That animal eye,
Is just what you say.

That savage of fire,
That seed,
Have it your way.

The world is ugly,
And the people are sad.


--Wallace Stevens
-------------------------------------

Wallace Stevens 
___________

THE BRAVE MAN

The sun, that brave man,
Comes through boughs that lie in wait,
That brave man.

Green and gloomy eyes
In dark forms of the grass
Run away.

The good stars,
Pale helms and spiky spurs,
Run away.

Fears of my bed,
Fears of life and fears of death,
Run away.

That brave man comes up
>From below and walks without meditation,
That brave man.

WALLACE STEVENS
Collected ? Library of America



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 21:01:53 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:01:53 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] a new press for long works: blue lion books  
Message-ID: <12a.6787889b.307b1781@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/9/2005 8:48:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
pganick at comcast.net writes:

the url  - www.bluelionbooks.info

the email addresses -  pganick at cpmcast.net
jukka at xpressed.org
editors at bluelionbooks.info

we expect our first titles to be available  in 4 to 6
weeks. 

please spread the word.

peter  ganick




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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 21:41:41 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:41:41 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Landis Everson wins Emily Dickinson Award
Message-ID: <99.6895c3bb.307b20d5@aol.com>

Date:   Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:01:10 -0400
From:    Fulcrum Annual  <editor at FULCRUMPOETRY.COM>
Subject: Fulcrum's discovery Landis Everson  wins Emily Dickinson Award

The first winner of the Emily Dickinson First  Book Award, a 
volume of Landis Everson's new and collected poems,  
Everything Preserved: Poems 1955-2005, ed. by Ben Mazer, will 
soon be  published by Graywolf Press. In addition, Everson 
received a cash prize of  $10,000.

Everson was a member of the Berkeley Renaissance of the late  
1940s, and participated in a weekly writing group with Jack 
Spicer and  Robin Blaser in San Francisco in 1960. Since his 
rediscovery last year in  Fulcrum 3 (The Berkeley Renaissance, 
edited by Ben Mazer), he has written a  great deal of new 
poetry, which is now appearing or forthcoming in American  
Poetry Review, Chicago Review, Fence, Fulcrum, Harvard 
Review, Jacket,  LIT, New Republic, PN Review, Poetry, Seneca 
Review, Washington Square, and  many other journals. 

Read more about Everson and the Award  at
http://poetryfoundation.org/release_100705.html
and watch the New York  Times for more extensive coverage.

Copies of Fulcrum 3 (including Ben  Mazer's feature on the 
Berkeley Renaissance, where Landis Everson was  rediscovered) 
are still available to individuals at $15 ($25 abroad).  
Fulcrum 4, similarly priced and forthcoming in exactly one 
week,  contains a special feature on Everson, including his 
letters to Jack Spicer  and Robert Duncan, a range of new 
poems, and an essay by Ben Mazer, "The  Landis Everson Story." 
Send a check or money order payable to Fulcrum to the  
editorial address  below.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Philip Nikolayev &  Katia Kapovich, eds.
FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF
POETRY AND AESTHETICS
334  Harvard Street, Suite D-2
Cambridge, MA 02139, USA
phone  617-864-7874
e-mail  editor at fulcrumpoetry.com
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 21:48:15 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:48:15 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
Message-ID: <bf.61911ef2.307b225f@aol.com>

 
Jeff, I meant to send my query about the punctuation to go the  list.
Thanks for the answer.
Finnegan
In a message dated 10/9/2005 2:37:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:

Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry  & Prose.
 
I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't  
include the colon.

Jeff Newberry


On 10/9/05, _JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com)  
<_JforJames at aol.com_ (mailto:JforJames at aol.com) > wrote:  
 
In a message dated 10/8/2005 1:05:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
_jeff.newberry at gmail.com_ (mailto:jeff.newberry at gmail.com)  writes:

The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like  this:
 
The apparition     of these  faces     in the crowd   :
Petals     on a wet,  black     bough  .



Jeff, is that a full space between the word crowd
and the colon?...and a space before the period?
That's a bit odd too. Making the punctuation more
visible.
Finnegan







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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 10 06:04:08 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:04:08 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
References: <154.5b21297c.307b09a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c5cd81$f542fb10$f6ec3652@ANNY>

Thank you, I preferred the longer version and cut out the previous one.


COMMUNICATIONS OF MEANING


The parrot in its palmy boughs
Repeats the farmer's almanac.

A duckling of the wildest blood
Convinces Athens with its quack.

Much too much thought, too little thought.
No thought at all: a guttural growl,

A snort across the silverware,
The petals flying through the air


(1937?)
Wallace Stevens

  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:02 AM


  In a message dated 10/9/2005 4:34:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:
    and thank you for Mina Loy, this page is becoming extremely interesting:
    http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=287

  Anny,
  I notice you already had it...clipped to: 'Poetry is prose bewitched.' 
  Pretty soon it's going to be tough to find a definition not pinned up
  on that page.
  Thanks,
  Finnegan
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 10 06:06:01 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 06:06:01 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <bf.61911ef2.307b225f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c5cd82$3847a870$77b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  Jeff, I meant to send my query about the punctuation to go the list.
  Thanks for the answer.
  Finnegan
  In a message dated 10/9/2005 2:37:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
    Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry & Prose.

    I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't include the colon.

    Jeff Newberry

     
    On 10/9/05, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote: 
      In a message dated 10/8/2005 1:05:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
        The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

        The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
        Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
         
      Jeff, is that a full space between the word crowd
      and the colon?...and a space before the period?
      That's a bit odd too. Making the punctuation more
      visible.
      Finnegan
     

    Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry & Prose.

    I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't include the colon.

    Jeff Newberry

    My impression is that there is no official version.  Edwin Morgan quoted it with a space colon at the end of each of the two lines.  This makes best sense to me as the scene is not supposed to stop but flow into some indistinct future.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 07:20:35 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 04:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: Eshleman Replies
Message-ID: <20051010112035.50838.qmail@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Clayton Eshleman responds

Z-site:
annotating Zukofsky

Poetry news
from around the world

False Maps
from Jay MillAr

The moral poetics
of Linh Dinh

Committed to the particular:
Gas Station by Joseph Torra

Renee Gladman
and The Activist

Ubuweb and film

Thoughts on Dylan

Eleni Sikelianos:
Lovers & other numbers

Rodrigo Toscano:
Partisans

Maxine Chernoff
Among the Names

What is a lap?
The fold in Rachel Blau DuPlessis? Drafts

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com  Mon Oct 10 09:40:44 2005
From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:40:44 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <bf.61911ef2.307b225f@aol.com>
	<001c01c5cd82$3847a870$77b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <070b01c5cda0$3708c430$e8658b56@Robin>

The more I think about this, the less sense can I make of it.  (I do so wish someone would post the original Poetry version and Eddie's seventies comment on it.  I've made two attempts to find the Akros issue, and almost broke my leg trying.  Enough's enough.)

The text (hard copy) I have in front of me is the Faber edition of +Personae+.  (First published in 1952.  Mine is the second impression -- 1961.  And horribly enough, I seem to have bought it when I was going through a phase of inserting my name in letraset on the fly-leaf of books)

There, the poems reads:

IN A STATION OF THE METRO

The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
Petals on a wet, black bough.

Semi-colon at the end of the first line.  No spacing.

By then (Eliot would have been in-post at Faber then) if Pound had wanted the poem printed with spaces, it would have had spacing.

There IS an issue with concrete poetry that it can be difficult to type-set, but that's not at play here.

The first *book* publication of Metro was in +Lustra+ (1914?), along with The Jewel Stair's Grievance and the Fan poem -- pre-Cathay, and at the height of Pound's Imagist phase.

This was BEFORE Pound got his claws on the Fenellosa MSS.  Indeed, Fenellosa's widow is supposed to have decided when she read Metro (did she read it in Poetry or in the Lustra volume?  The latter, I'm guessing.) that Pound was the only person worthy of editing her deceased husband's manuscript.

Then you have the hysterically funny publication of +The Chinese Ideograph As A Medium For Poetry+ and the genius of the Cathay poems (which WERE written up from the Fenellosa MSS).

(Sidenote -- was Pound working as Yeats' secretary at this point?  What did Yeats think of the Metro?)

Now the point I'm trying tortuously to make is that there seems to me no logic whatsoever in a spaced-out version of Metro.

It was cut-back from an earlier 20 line version, in a similar fashion to Marianne Moore revising down (beyond all this fiddle is right) "Poetry" (the poem, not the magazine) to the succunct comment in her Collected, "I too despise it."

So anyway, Metro predates Pound's serious involvement with Chinese.

There's a long comment by Peter Brooker in +A Student's Guide to the Selected Poems of Ezra Pound+ about this.

Robin Hamilton

Ooops -- forget that -- I really seem to have screwed up here.  Brooker notes:

<<
At Pound's insistence, the early printings of the poem (+Poetry+, April 1913; +New Freewoman+, 15 August 1913) observed 'spaces between the rhythmic units' (SL, 17) as follows:

The apparition       of these faces      in the crowd     :
Petals     on a wet, black      bough     .
>>

Learn something new every day.

            :-(

R.










  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'



   
    Jeff, I meant to send my query about the punctuation to go the list.
    Thanks for the answer.
    Finnegan
    In a message dated 10/9/2005 2:37:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
      Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry & Prose.

      I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't include the colon.

      Jeff Newberry

       
      On 10/9/05, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote: 
        In a message dated 10/8/2005 1:05:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
          The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

          The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
          Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
           
        Jeff, is that a full space between the word crowd
        and the colon?...and a space before the period?
        That's a bit odd too. Making the punctuation more
        visible.
        Finnegan

      Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry & Prose.

      I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't include the colon.

      Jeff Newberry

      My impression is that there is no official version.  Edwin Morgan quoted it with a space colon at the end of each of the two lines.  This makes best sense to me as the scene is not supposed to stop but flow into some indistinct future.




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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 11:22:22 2005
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:22:22 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
In-Reply-To: <003a01c5cd81$f542fb10$f6ec3652@ANNY>
References: <154.5b21297c.307b09a3@aol.com>
	<003a01c5cd81$f542fb10$f6ec3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0510100822y455024ecw93309d02486fd26d@mail.gmail.com>

Oh Anny, you must add this to the quote list. Its one of my favorites:

"In my book, poetry is a necessity of life. It is a function of poetry to
locate those zones inside us that would be free, and declare them so."

--C.D. Wright


And that Mina Loy quote is truly a gem.

--Suzanne
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 10 16:08:05 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:08:05 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
References: <154.5b21297c.307b09a3@aol.com><003a01c5cd81$f542fb10$f6ec3652@ANNY>
	<aa458fec0510100822y455024ecw93309d02486fd26d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009701c5cdd6$53c25fb0$77b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

"In my book, poetry is a necessity of life. It is a function of poetry to locate those zones inside us that would be free, and declare them so."

Weird.  I thought that was the function of a good strawberry milk shake.

--Bob G.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 10 16:17:35 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:17:35 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
References: <154.5b21297c.307b09a3@aol.com><003a01c5cd81$f542fb10$f6ec3652@ANNY>
	<aa458fec0510100822y455024ecw93309d02486fd26d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c5cdd7$a7a49110$567c3652@ANNY>


Thank you Suzanne, 

I added your quotation and also your name to the contributors,

I also like strawberry milk shake, any milk shake, chocolate, papaya, (you name it and I like it)

cheers, Anny
  From: Suzanne Burns 
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:22 PM


  Oh Anny, you must add this to the quote list.  Its one of my favorites:

  "In my book, poetry is a necessity of life. It is a function of poetry to locate those zones inside us that would be free, and declare them so."

  --C.D. Wright


  And that Mina Loy quote is truly a gem.

  --Suzanne




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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Oct 10 16:19:31 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:19:31 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
Message-ID: <1e.4f7bd676.307c26d3@aol.com>

In a message dated 10/10/2005 11:22:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
queenmouse at gmail.com writes:
you must add this to the quote list.  Its one of my favorites:

"In my book, poetry is a necessity of life. It is a function of poetry to 
locate those zones inside us that would be free, and declare them so."

--C.D. Wright
Suzanne,
That one seems to fit another webpage Anny has put up:
What is poetry for?
Finnegan
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 10 16:31:15 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:31:15 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
References: <1e.4f7bd676.307c26d3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006401c5cdd9$8fe60160$567c3652@ANNY>

Yes, you are probably right James, will change page right now,

  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:19 PM


  In a message dated 10/10/2005 11:22:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, queenmouse at gmail.com writes:
    you must add this to the quote list.  Its one of my favorites:

    "In my book, poetry is a necessity of life. It is a function of poetry to locate those zones inside us that would be free, and declare them so."

    --C.D. Wright
  Suzanne,
  That one seems to fit another webpage Anny has put up:
  What is poetry for?
  Finnegan


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 10 16:41:57 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:41:57 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Miller NAWSA Suffrage Scrapbooks, 1897-1911
Message-ID: <007701c5cddb$0f022d60$567c3652@ANNY>

From: Laura Gottesman [mailto:lgot at loc.gov] 
Sent: dinsdag 4 oktober 2005 17:46

The Library of Congress's Rare Book & Special Collections Division is
pleased to announce the release of a new digital collection, "Miller NAWSA
Suffrage Scrapbooks, 1897-1911: From the collection of Elizabeth Smith
Miller and Anne Fitzhugh Miller":
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/suffrage/millerscrapbooks/ 

Collection handle: http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.rbc/collrbc.rb000010 

Between 1897 and 1911 Elizabeth Smith Miller and her daughter, Anne Fitzhugh
Miller, filled seven large scrapbooks with ephemera and memorabilia related
to their work with women's suffrage. The Elizabeth Smith Miller and Anne
Fitzhugh Miller scrapbooks are a part of the National American Woman
Suffrage Association (NAWSA) Collection in the Rare Book and Special
Collections Division of the Library of Congress. These scrapbooks document
the activities of the Geneva Political Equality Club, which the Millers
founded in 1897, as well as efforts at the state, national, and
international levels to win the vote for women. They offer a unique look at
the political and social atmosphere of the time, as well as chronicle the
efforts of two women who were major participants in the suffrage movement. 

"Miller NAWSA Suffrage Scrapbooks, 1897-1911: From the collection of
Elizabeth Smith Miller and Anne Fitzhugh Miller" compliments other women's
history collections available from the Library of Congress's American Memory
Collection: < http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/ >, including: "Votes for Women:
Selections from the National American Woman Suffrage Association,
1848-1921," < http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/naw/nawshome.html > and the
recently - released: "Women of Protest: Photographs from the Records of the
National Woman's Party" <
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/suffrage/nwp/ >.

Please direct any inquiries about this collection to the American Memory
"Ask A Librarian" Web form: < http://www.loc.gov/rr/askalib/ask-memory.html
>.
  
>>>>>

Laura Gottesman
Reference Librarian
Digital Reference Team
The Library of Congress


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 10 17:07:03 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:07:03 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] C.D. Wright
Message-ID: <00c301c5cdde$9073d030$567c3652@ANNY>


Thanks to Suzanne Burns and James Finnegan, C.D. Wright's quotation is now on the page: Why Poetry Exists:
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289

Otherwise you can reach it from the main index by scrolling down to New Poetry Mailing List:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content

Thank you again to all the contributors,

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 17:13:27 2005
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:13:27 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
In-Reply-To: <002b01c5cdd7$a7a49110$567c3652@ANNY>
References: <154.5b21297c.307b09a3@aol.com>
	<003a01c5cd81$f542fb10$f6ec3652@ANNY>
	<aa458fec0510100822y455024ecw93309d02486fd26d@mail.gmail.com>
	<002b01c5cdd7$a7a49110$567c3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0510101413pcb2e3fdje149d72136138e05@mail.gmail.com>

Red Bull is doing it for me today. Of course Red Bull with a shot of citron
vodka is even better.

Cheers,

Suzanne


On 10/10/05, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
>  Thank you Suzanne,
>  I added your quotation and also your name to the contributors,
>  I also like strawberry milk shake, any milk shake, chocolate, papaya,
> (you name it and I like it)
>  cheers, Anny
>
>
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 17:14:28 2005
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:14:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mina Loy weighs in
In-Reply-To: <1e.4f7bd676.307c26d3@aol.com>
References: <1e.4f7bd676.307c26d3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0510101414m253d887bq2636649e68672a24@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/05, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>  Suzanne,
> That one seems to fit another webpage Anny has put up:
> What is poetry for?
> Finnegan
>

That was the web page I was refering to actually. :-) Nice collection!

--Suzanne



--
"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style."

--Quentin Crisp
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Tue Oct 11 05:14:16 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:14:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'
References: <bf.61911ef2.307b225f@aol.com><001c01c5cd82$3847a870$77b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<070b01c5cda0$3708c430$e8658b56@Robin>
Message-ID: <01a301c5ce45$449f19f0$28e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

What I do know, Rob, is that the poem occured, in its its first version, not too long after Pound first got to know T.E.Hulme. Not sure about the Yeats secretary timings, I'll have to check that out.

Best

Davo
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robin Hamilton 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Cc: Joanna Boulter ; judy prince 
  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'


  The more I think about this, the less sense can I make of it.  (I do so wish someone would post the original Poetry version and Eddie's seventies comment on it.  I've made two attempts to find the Akros issue, and almost broke my leg trying.  Enough's enough.)

  The text (hard copy) I have in front of me is the Faber edition of +Personae+.  (First published in 1952.  Mine is the second impression -- 1961.  And horribly enough, I seem to have bought it when I was going through a phase of inserting my name in letraset on the fly-leaf of books)

  There, the poems reads:

  IN A STATION OF THE METRO

  The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
  Petals on a wet, black bough.

  Semi-colon at the end of the first line.  No spacing.

  By then (Eliot would have been in-post at Faber then) if Pound had wanted the poem printed with spaces, it would have had spacing.

  There IS an issue with concrete poetry that it can be difficult to type-set, but that's not at play here.

  The first *book* publication of Metro was in +Lustra+ (1914?), along with The Jewel Stair's Grievance and the Fan poem -- pre-Cathay, and at the height of Pound's Imagist phase.

  This was BEFORE Pound got his claws on the Fenellosa MSS.  Indeed, Fenellosa's widow is supposed to have decided when she read Metro (did she read it in Poetry or in the Lustra volume?  The latter, I'm guessing.) that Pound was the only person worthy of editing her deceased husband's manuscript.

  Then you have the hysterically funny publication of +The Chinese Ideograph As A Medium For Poetry+ and the genius of the Cathay poems (which WERE written up from the Fenellosa MSS).

  (Sidenote -- was Pound working as Yeats' secretary at this point?  What did Yeats think of the Metro?)

  Now the point I'm trying tortuously to make is that there seems to me no logic whatsoever in a spaced-out version of Metro.

  It was cut-back from an earlier 20 line version, in a similar fashion to Marianne Moore revising down (beyond all this fiddle is right) "Poetry" (the poem, not the magazine) to the succunct comment in her Collected, "I too despise it."

  So anyway, Metro predates Pound's serious involvement with Chinese.

  There's a long comment by Peter Brooker in +A Student's Guide to the Selected Poems of Ezra Pound+ about this.

  Robin Hamilton

  Ooops -- forget that -- I really seem to have screwed up here.  Brooker notes:

  <<
  At Pound's insistence, the early printings of the poem (+Poetry+, April 1913; +New Freewoman+, 15 August 1913) observed 'spaces between the rhythmic units' (SL, 17) as follows:

  The apparition       of these faces      in the crowd     :
  Petals     on a wet, black      bough     .
  >>

  Learn something new every day.

              :-(

  R.










    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Bob Grumman 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:06 AM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] P.S./ scansion of Pound's 'Metro'



     
      Jeff, I meant to send my query about the punctuation to go the list.
      Thanks for the answer.
      Finnegan
      In a message dated 10/9/2005 2:37:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
        Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry & Prose.

        I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't include the colon.

        Jeff Newberry

         
        On 10/9/05, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote: 
          In a message dated 10/8/2005 1:05:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff.newberry at gmail.com writes:
            The original (Poetry, 1913) looks like this:

            The apparition     of these faces     in the crowd  :
            Petals     on a wet, black     bough .
             
          Jeff, is that a full space between the word crowd
          and the colon?...and a space before the period?
          That's a bit odd too. Making the punctuation more
          visible.
          Finnegan

        Yeah it is, actually, in the new Penguin Early Writings:  Poetry & Prose.

        I thought it odd, as well, particularly since Cary Nelson's site doesn't include the colon.

        Jeff Newberry

        My impression is that there is no official version.  Edwin Morgan quoted it with a space colon at the end of each of the two lines.  This makes best sense to me as the scene is not supposed to stop but flow into some indistinct future.




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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Oct 12 06:20:09 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:20:09 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] From Today's The Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <002301c5cf16$867f5890$478f3052@ANNY>

Poem: "It Is Not the Fact That I Will Die That I Mind" by Jim Moore from Lightning at Dinner. ? Graywolf Press. Reprinted with permission. (buy now)

It Is Not the Fact That I Will Die That I Mind

but that no one will love as I did
the oak tree out my boyhood window,
the mother who set herself
so stubbornly against life,
the sister with her serious frown
and her wish for someone at her side,
the father with his dreamy gaze
and his left hand idly buried
in the fur of his dog.
And the dog herself,
that mournful look and huge appetite,
her need for absolute stillness
in the presence of a bird.
I know how each of them looks
when asleep. And I know how it feels
to fall asleep among them.
No one knows that but me,
No one knows how to love the way I do. 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 16:34:23 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:34:23 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Do I agree with Collins?
In-Reply-To: <200.99dc54c.305213f3@aol.com>
References: <200.99dc54c.305213f3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0510121334k6ab084ebof24a16a48db21b2c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/8/05, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

> Lastly, what exactly is accessibility? I've read some
> very 'accessible poems' (their prose meanings are not
> difficult to parse) that are still hard to understand: nuanced, full
> of allusions, associations, undertones, colorations and textures
> of language, word choices, tone shifts, diction and pace changes, etc., that
> would take a lifetime to tease out, if not an eternity.
> Do you think Robert Frost, for example, is easy to read and
> to understand? I do not.

I've been travelling, but I will say this: I have no idea what
accessibility is. Frost is easy to read, but not necessarily easy to
understand... at least not fully. Maybe accessibility is just that
there is an entrance into understanding that some majority of readers
can apprehend. The negative view of accessibility seems to be that
this is "all there is" and/or that such entrances needn't be present.

My own feeling is that I don't give extra points to one side for
making a poem that is "hard" or demanding. Sometimes that's a good
thing for me, sometimes it is not. There seems to be a lot of points
being handed out for mere difficulty, at least in poetry blogland :)

I look at a poet like William Matthews, whose work I greatly enjoy,
and in some my favorite poems there isn't a lot going on beneath the
surface... but I enjoy them as I enjoy light confectionaries. I
wouldn't want them as my sole diet, but then I wouldn't want to do
without either. Rae Armentrout can mix up a complex, savory dish that
has a relatively accessible meaning but also rewards more study and
contemplation. I enjoy those too, but wouldn't want to live with
nothing else.

I don't see why the various schools, which match various desires (a
variety of which can be within the makeup of one's aesthetic
inclinations), can't co-exist.

c



From cc at opus0.com  Wed Oct 12 19:21:08 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:21:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
In-Reply-To: <200510061600.j96G04M3028573@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJIEJKCGAA.cc@opus0.com>

I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read it.  I like
Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian (don't
read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said some time ago
that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)

After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the library and
checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the reader read it
like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the line
breaks and make it sound completely prosy.

cheerio

> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
>
>
> A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
> recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> assembled experts
> here.
>
> What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
> particular?




From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Thu Oct 13 10:20:24 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:20:24 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
References: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJIEJKCGAA.cc@opus0.com>
Message-ID: <02c001c5d001$414c20a0$28e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

Anyhow, interesting that Harold Pinter has won the Nobel, I'm not sure what
I think about it, maybe a Long Service Award, he did though do that stuff as
both cameo actor and playwright of being vaguely sinister, menacing even, a
part definitely of the Sixties Brit explosion (even though he predated
that - as in the Birtday Party)

Best

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:21 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno


> I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read it.  I like
> Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian
(don't
> read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said some time ago
> that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
> consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
>
> After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the library and
> checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the reader read
it
> like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the
line
> breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
>
> cheerio
>
> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
> >
> >
> > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
> > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> > assembled experts
> > here.
> >
> > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
> > particular?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Thu Oct 13 10:29:06 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:29:06 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
References: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJIEJKCGAA.cc@opus0.com>
Message-ID: <02ce01c5d002$784c1050$28e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

Re Anny's point about rhyming in Italian, I recall seeing a statement by
someone, it might have been Montale or Ungaretti, I really can't remember
exactly, that the problem in writing verse in Italian was trying +not+ to
rhyme.

Best

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:21 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno


> I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read it.  I like
> Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian
(don't
> read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said some time ago
> that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
> consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
>
> After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the library and
> checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the reader read
it
> like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the
line
> breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
>
> cheerio
>
> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
> >
> >
> > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
> > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> > assembled experts
> > here.
> >
> > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
> > particular?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Oct 13 10:47:37 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:47:37 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Beckett Editor
Message-ID: <007a01c5d005$0e2496e0$b3af3852@ANNY>


>From Tom Beckett:

The issue of MiPoesias which I guest edited is online at:
http://www.mipoesias.com

There is also a podcast version of the issue at:
http://miporadio.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=26715

Enjoy!

and a direct link to my poem on this issue:
http://www.mipoesias.com/2006/ballardini.html

Thank you,

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Oct 13 10:52:57 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:52:57 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
References: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJIEJKCGAA.cc@opus0.com>
	<02ce01c5d002$784c1050$28e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>
Message-ID: <008d01c5d005$cca2c380$b3af3852@ANNY>

Yes, I agree David,
Anny

From: "David Bircumshaw" <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 4:29 PM


> Re Anny's point about rhyming in Italian, I recall seeing a statement by
> someone, it might have been Montale or Ungaretti, I really can't remember
> exactly, that the problem in writing verse in Italian was trying +not+ to
> rhyme.
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:21 AM
>
>
>> I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read it.  I 
>> like
>> Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian
> (don't
>> read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said some time ago
>> that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
>> consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
>>
>> After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the library 
>> and
>> checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the reader read
> it
>> like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the
> line
>> breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
>>
>> cheerio
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
>> > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
>> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
>> >
>> >
>> > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I 
>> > would
>> > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
>> > assembled experts
>> > here.
>> >
>> > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, 
>> > in
>> > particular?
>>




From halvard at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 13 15:57:53 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:57:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
Message-ID: <9A6D69BB-2695-4298-9243-6DBF8A411891@earthlink.net>

Here's as good a place as any to starting brushing
up your Pinter.

http://www.haroldpinter.org/poetry/poetry_football.shtml

Hal        Not responsible for typographical errors.

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


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From matthew.shindell at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 16:49:43 2005
From: matthew.shindell at gmail.com (Matthew Shindell)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:49:43 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] On Vanity -- This Sunday on My Vocabulary
Message-ID: <3f273e940510131349q263b825fxebda067e1be708fb@mail.gmail.com>

My Vocabulary officially kicks off its new season this Sunday with a salute
to vanity. Tune in to hear live readings by the show's two hosts, James
Meetze and Matthew Shindell. As they read, hear them spin some of their
favorite music for you in between poems. Michel Cazary will also be taking
her turn at the board.

The show begins at 4pm PST and goes until 6pm (that's California time, so
please adjust for your own local time). You can tune in online at http://
ksdt.ucsd.edu. You can listen through winamp, itunes or any comparable
program.

So please join us and make it a habit. We're on every Sunday and we have
some fantastic shows lined up for you for the next several weeks. Please
also don't forget that you too can contribute. Find out how by visiting
http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com. You can also email us at
MyVocabulary at gmail.com and add us to you AIM buddy list as MyVocabularyKSDT.

Yours in poetry,
Matt

--
Matthew Shindell
Position of No Authority
La Jolla, CA
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From jayd at csi.com  Thu Oct 13 16:58:11 2005
From: jayd at csi.com (Jay Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:58:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry circle
Message-ID: <4e61hu$30rg0r@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net>

I'm a former academic who went into technology some time ago and recently
decided to leverage my experience by opening a new poetry venue online
called Poetry Circle.

http://www.poetrycircle.com

I'd be honored if you joined, contributed some work, and even offered to
help edit work if you have time or inclination.

The site is brand new, but I have quite a bit of experience now in creating
such sites, having created and marketed

http://www.photocamel.com

and other communities. I'll be adding plenty of features as I find the time,
but I think you'll be pleased by what you see now. 

I hope you'll stop by and also spread the word. I'd be happy to create
special boards on the site for group or classroom work.

Thanks.

Jay Dougherty
http://www.poetrycircle.com



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 18:03:08 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:03:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Help!!
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510131503r4c97e6a2w112e48a343607998@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy all,
 I'm back in graduate school now, and I need some advice or pointing.
 I'm in the preliminary stages of a long project looking at Trains in the
Films of Alfred Hitchcock, particularly his earlier work. Primarly, I'm
focusing on *The Lady Vanishes *and *The 39 Steps*, both British films.
 The particulars are beside the point. But, here's the dilemma: I'm having a
devil of a time finding some good scholarly sources. Secondly, I'd like to
know if any of you know of or can point me to a listserv not unlike
NewPoetry, but where film critics and like the like can post.
 I'd appreciate any responses.
 Thanks,
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Thu Oct 13 19:06:26 2005
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:06:26 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Help!!
Message-ID: <1a0.3e696c0f.30804272@cs.com>

North by Northwest should be important.  Also Strangers on a Train.  Also, 
the one with Joseph Cotten and Teresa Brewer had a good train sequence.  Lots to 
go on here!
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 21:14:23 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:14:23 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Help!!
In-Reply-To: <1a0.3e696c0f.30804272@cs.com>
References: <1a0.3e696c0f.30804272@cs.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510131814v3e24dc06j88e52c474e8b2d91@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Sam.
 I'm focusing more on the British Hitch, but I'll be comparing his use of
the train in both American and British films.
 Jeff Newberry

 On 10/13/05, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com <Rsgwynn1 at cs.com> wrote:
>
> North by Northwest should be important. Also Strangers on a Train. Also,
> the one with Joseph Cotten and Teresa Brewer had a good train sequence. Lots
> to go on here!
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Oct 14 08:38:44 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:38:44 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the Poets' Corner
Message-ID: <001401c5d0bc$3726dcd0$82ec3652@ANNY>

 

Our life is, in so far as it is worth living, made up in great part of things indefinite, impalpable; and it is precisely because the arts present us these things that we-humanity-cannot get on without the arts. The picture that suggests indefinite poems, the line of verse that means a gallery of paintings, the modulation that suggests a score of metaphors and is contained in none: it is these things that touch us nearly that matter.

Ezra Pound, "I Gather the Limbs of Osiris" Selected Prose 1909-1965, New Directions: 1973
thanks to Jeff Newberry, quotation sent to the New Poetry Mailing List, list-owner James Finnegan,

on Why Poetry Exists:

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1289

 

And

 

In my book, poetry is a necessity of life. It is a function of poetry to locate those zones inside us that would be free, and declare them so.

 

C.D. Wright

thanks to Suzanne Burns

 

 

Dear All,

 

time for an update of the Poets' Corner, the present issue is dedicated to Laura Portesi who wanted the opening of the Fieralingue site, thanks to her foresighted intuition all related pages have come into existence.

 

Newly featured:

 

Daniele Pantano

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=182

 

Sharon Dolin

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=183

 

Dan Waber

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=184

 

R.S. Gwynn

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=185

 

Alan Michael Parker

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=186

 

Jim Andrews

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=187

 

Marilyn Hacker

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=188

 

Rafael Wild

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=189

 

Gabriel Impaglione

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=190

 

Maxine Chernoff

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=191

 

Grace Cavalieri

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=192

 

Patti Marshock

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=193

 

Ludovit Lehen

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=194

 

 

Under the Mother section a beautiful poem by

Sharon Dolin, If my mother:

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=165

 

 

New additions of previously featured poets:

 

Didi Menendez

A Letter To My Husband after the Dogs Followed, 1863

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1295

IDA KNOW

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1296

The Braid

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1397

 

 

Linh Dinh

Sentenze Poetiche

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1297

 

 

Barry Alpert

MECH MAN JIVE

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1298

 

 

Alan Sondheim 

Weak Work

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1299

The Certain Truths

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1300

Rock

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1336

"limit notes revisioned

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1405

the new song

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1410

 

 

Deborah Russell

Annotations

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1301

 

 

Tad Richards

STACKOLEE AND THE DEVIL

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1375

THE LOGIC OF IMAGINARY POSITIONS

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1381

 

 

Jon Corelis

Goodbye

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1403

 

 

 

For Transart05

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=135

Press release in Italian and in English and an:

Interview with Sabrina Michielli

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1407

Also in the original Italian version:

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=1396

 

 

Under Poets on Poets:

 

An Italian page for Marilyn Hacker

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=32

 

Liana Borghi translates Elegia per un soldato by Marilyn Hacker

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules/poetsonpoets/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=58

 

 

And I finally moved under this section my translations of Michael Rothenberg's poems:

http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=31

 

 

With my best wishes for a sunny and fruitful Autumn,


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 10:25:33 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:25:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Aase Berg
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>

I Walked Out in the North

Aase Berg (translated by Johannes G?ransson

 I walked out in the North toward the shout, followed the red track through
midnight, where dangerous ruby blossoms opened their lulling lairs. I walked
out in the North toward the aches toward the well stone toward the spring,
where we have never again returned. Maybe Adrian hunted. I had seen him like
that: white in the face, naked, on his knees crawling. He carried a hare
child in his jaws, was smeared with its blood; mourning deeply entranced. I
walked out in the North toward the shout, toward borders where stones chafed
against stones. The deer water glowed darkly, painfully, and darkly burned
the sap the dread. I walked out in the North toward the chasm, where maybe
Adrian hunted. And the linen it fell so white on the all-too-dark earth, in
the glade where night steam rose all around me. Then the marsh butterfly
moved so close to the blood lips, so close to the poisonous fibers of the
smile. I walked out in the North toward the torment, followed the heavy
fragrance through midnight. And there even I, at last, dark with sap,
allowed myself to be touched.
 (http://www.octopusmagazine.com/issue04/html/features/poets/aase_berg.htm)
  Jeff Newberry


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 11:58:28 2005
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:58:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Aase Berg
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480510140858ufc84622r29873f66df628867@mail.gmail.com>

nice stuff.

On 10/14/05, Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I Walked Out in the North
>
> Aase Berg (translated by Johannes G?ransson
>
>
>
> I walked out in the North toward the shout, followed the red track through
> midnight, where dangerous ruby blossoms opened their lulling lairs. I walked
> out in the North toward the aches toward the well stone toward the spring,
> where we have never again returned. Maybe Adrian hunted. I had seen him like
> that: white in the face, naked, on his knees crawling. He carried a hare
> child in his jaws, was smeared with its blood; mourning deeply entranced. I
> walked out in the North toward the shout, toward borders where stones chafed
> against stones. The deer water glowed darkly, painfully, and darkly burned
> the sap the dread. I walked out in the North toward the chasm, where maybe
> Adrian hunted. And the linen it fell so white on the all-too-dark earth, in
> the glade where night steam rose all around me. Then the marsh butterfly
> moved so close to the blood lips, so close to the poisonous fibers of the
> smile. I walked out in the North toward the torment, followed the heavy
> fragrance through midnight. And there even I, at last, dark with sap,
> allowed myself to be touched.
>
> (http://www.octopusmagazine.com/issue04/html/features/poets/aase_berg.htm)
>
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
>
> --
> "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
>                                                    --Miguel
> de Unamuno
>
> Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
http://www.badstep.net/
http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/



From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Fri Oct 14 23:15:57 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:15:57 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Feet
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
	<fde503480510140858ufc84622r29873f66df628867@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <031f01c5d136$c3b7d0d0$28e8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

My French mate - Rog-er, has suddenly discovered what it feels like to be
disabled, this is because he accidententally twisted his left tendon in da
foot, now he realises what Victoria has to had to experience from the day
she was born, apart from that, among many other things, he told me what was
possibly the world's worst joke.

So I am recovering.


Best


Dave






From clitophon at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 15 12:01:12 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <9A6D69BB-2695-4298-9243-6DBF8A411891@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20051015160112.41840.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>

Harold Pinter has been awarded the Nobel Prize. 
Rejecting the award might have solidified his
integrity but not his bank balance.   Still, the
better way to an enlarged bank balance might have been
rejection.  Perhaps Jean Paul Sartre's previous
rejection of the prize was, indeed, a canny move. 
Maybe Pinter doesn't care very much anymore and just
wants to make his old age more comfortable after
possible early years of struggle.  Why not?   A hair
shirt is a necessity of a saint or martyr but a
writer?  The obligations of a prophet are continually
intertwined with  the responsiblities that attend
personal survival, not personal aggrandisement and the
Nobel Prize is an aggrandizement, since it is the
result of Alfred Nobel's fortune in dynamite.  Not an
honest, decent way to earn a living unless the
dynamite was used for mining but that I doubt.  Maybe
someone else knows the answer or can comment?  



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 15 12:11:52 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:11:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <20051015160112.41840.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051015160112.41840.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DEE91A02-7E37-4D68-960D-3C5883DA8E71@earthlink.net>

Would you rephrase the question please?

Hal

Today's special: Hamilton Stone Review
http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr6.html

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


On Oct 15, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Paul Murphy wrote:

> Harold Pinter has been awarded the Nobel Prize.
> Rejecting the award might have solidified his
> integrity but not his bank balance.   Still, the
> better way to an enlarged bank balance might have been
> rejection.  Perhaps Jean Paul Sartre's previous
> rejection of the prize was, indeed, a canny move.
> Maybe Pinter doesn't care very much anymore and just
> wants to make his old age more comfortable after
> possible early years of struggle.  Why not?   A hair
> shirt is a necessity of a saint or martyr but a
> writer?  The obligations of a prophet are continually
> intertwined with  the responsiblities that attend
> personal survival, not personal aggrandisement and the
> Nobel Prize is an aggrandizement, since it is the
> result of Alfred Nobel's fortune in dynamite.  Not an
> honest, decent way to earn a living unless the
> dynamite was used for mining but that I doubt.  Maybe
> someone else knows the answer or can comment?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 15 14:03:31 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:03:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
References: <20051015160112.41840.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003201c5d1b2$c0e2f390$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I'm sure Pinter is accepting the award so he can attend the awards ceremony 
and blow himself up with dynamite in an expression of solidarity with all 
the people Bush is murdering.

--Bob G. 




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Oct 15 14:59:10 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:59:10 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fw: [NarcissusWorks] Hey, I am on Blackbox
Message-ID: <003601c5d1ba$874670f0$7baf3852@ANNY>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Anny Ballardini 
To: anny.ballardini at tin.it 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: [NarcissusWorks] Hey, I am on Blackbox


Exactly, just to witness it all, here I am thanks to the great William James Austin!

BLACKBOX

And here is Bill's message:

Hello everybody,The Fall Blackbox gallery is now available for viewing. As always, go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link. Then take a stroll (scroll) through the galleries until you reach your destination. This season's gallery boasts a bounty of various religions, uh, "styles." Onboard are Gloria Mindock, Edgar Carlson, Carlos Luis, Mirela Roznoveanu (translated from the Romanian), david-baptiste chirot, Cecil Touchon, AnnyBallardini, Steve Dalachinsky, Jeff Harrison, Donna Kuhn, Sheila E. Murphy, John. M.Bennett, Vernon Frazer, Skip Fox, and Andrew Topel. Whew!!

Enjoy.
Best, Bill

WilliamJamesAustin.com
KojaPress.com
Amazon.com
BarnesandNobel.com 

--
Posted by Anny Ballardini to NarcissusWorks at 10/15/2005 08:54:00 PM 
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From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 20:33:27 2005
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:33:27 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <9A6D69BB-2695-4298-9243-6DBF8A411891@earthlink.net>
References: <9A6D69BB-2695-4298-9243-6DBF8A411891@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fde503480510151733r10fac78y5e9fef603f7c3ec4@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. I unreservedly give my full congratulations to Pinter. He
deserves this prize and any other bestowed on him. He's put his arse
on the line in terms of his art and in terms of his politics.  He has
done what I hope I could do, what I can only dream of doing.

It is shameful that he has been lauded abroad and not in his own country.

Roger.

On 10/13/05, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Here's as good a place as any to starting brushing
> up your Pinter.
>
> http://www.haroldpinter.org/poetry/poetry_football.shtml
>
> Hal        Not responsible for typographical errors.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> email: halvard at earthlink.net
>            halvard at gmail.com
> website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>


--
http://www.badstep.net/
http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/



From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct 16 07:42:48 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 07:42:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Kind Words for Vendler
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

 When did you last read a book of literary criticism? Not recently, most people who do not write criticism themselves will answer. Criticism today is impenetrable and irrelevant, since it is jargon-ridden and no longer interested in literature. Or so people have said. There may have been some truth in this caricature a few years ago, but the Age of Theory is over in America, for better or worse, and plenty of literary critics go on with their work. Take Helen Vendler, who has been writing about literature in lucid prose for more than 40 years. Her "Invisible Listeners," a compact study of "lyric intimacy" in three poets, demonstrates, if you have forgotten, some of the best reasons to read literary criticism. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/books/review/16hammer.html
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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct 16 08:20:33 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:20:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
	<002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander'' 

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust'' 

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat'' 

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration'' 

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation'' 
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Sun Oct 16 08:23:05 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:23:05 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <191.49ebb617.3083a029@aol.com>

I'd like to see Galvin get this one. A real  craftsman.
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From clitophon at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 16 08:26:53 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 05:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <003201c5d1b2$c0e2f390$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <20051016122653.35725.qmail@web40425.mail.yahoo.com>

Pinter represents the left of the capitalist system. 
Ultimately he's pleased to accept prizes from that
system because he knows that he's done absolutely
nothing to change anything.  Well, that statement
seems more urgent now than ever, I mean in the light
of recent events.  Looks like the quake did what the
CIA could never do, flatten Al Qaeda and most of
northern Pakistan/India.  I think Pinter has rejected
the impulse to self-immolation represented by today's
suicidists, instead preferring guzzling the champagne
that will no doubt be ever-present at his speech day. 
James Joyce, Sartre and others, were writers, not a
performing circus.  They took risks and changed the
world which is not something that can be said for
Pinter.

--- Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:

> I'm sure Pinter is accepting the award so he can
> attend the awards ceremony 
> and blow himself up with dynamite in an expression
> of solidarity with all 
> the people Bush is murdering.
> 
> --Bob G. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 16 09:22:16 2005
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <20051016132216.71714.qmail@web81107.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry for my gendered worldview & ignorance on this
subject, but weren't there any women nominees this
year?


--- TheOldMole <tad at opus40.org> wrote:

>  John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander'' 
> 
> Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust'' 
> 
> Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat'' 
> 
> W.S. Merwin, ''Migration'' 
> 
> Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation'' >
_______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct 16 11:07:14 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:07:14 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Some Kind Words for Vendler
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
	<002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <001701c5d263$4b166000$51ae3452@ANNY>

I think this is expressed in an excellent way:

For Ashbery, Parmigianino's self-portrait is an emblem of art's tantalizing self-enclosure. Because of the distortion of the convex mirror, the artist's hand "swims" both toward the viewer and away, offering "the shield of a greeting." So, Vendler suggests, Ashbery too beckons us close and wards us off. Unlike Herbert and Whitman, he imagines no perfect unions, in life or art. Instead he stresses the otherness of others and ourselves. But the acknowledgment of otherness is itself a form of intimacy. In Ashbery we learn how to be alone together.


  From: TheOldMole 
  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:42 PM


   When did you last read a book of literary criticism? Not recently, most people who do not write criticism themselves will answer. Criticism today is impenetrable and irrelevant, since it is jargon-ridden and no longer interested in literature. Or so people have said. There may have been some truth in this caricature a few years ago, but the Age of Theory is over in America, for better or worse, and plenty of literary critics go on with their work. Take Helen Vendler, who has been writing about literature in lucid prose for more than 40 years. Her "Invisible Listeners," a compact study of "lyric intimacy" in three poets, demonstrates, if you have forgotten, some of the best reasons to read literary criticism. 

  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/books/review/16hammer.html


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From GrahamD at ripon.edu  Sun Oct 16 11:34:25 2005
From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:34:25 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>



-----Original Message-----


on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:

 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander'' 

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust'' 

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat'' 

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration'' 

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation'' 

_______________________________________________

A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine the same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this list was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you Ashbery and Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't published in New York City. . . .").  

I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle if he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long overdue recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with greater pleasure.

Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or name one. . . .


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================






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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct 16 11:37:36 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:37:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <BF77DC5B.15078%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:

 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''

_______________________________________________

A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine the
same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this list
was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you Ashbery and
Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't published in New York
City. . . .").  

I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle if
he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long overdue
recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with greater
pleasure.

Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even
less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or
name one. . . .



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 16 13:07:13 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:07:13 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <200510161542.j9GFgceJ413262@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>

Ho hum....

----------
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2005, 7:37 AM


on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:

 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''

_______________________________________________

A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine the
same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this list
was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you Ashbery and
Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't published in New York
City. . . .").

I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle if
he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long overdue
recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with greater
pleasure.

Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even
less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or
name one. . . .



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct 16 12:09:35 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:09:35 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <200510161542.j9GFgceJ413262@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <008401c5d26c$00fb0940$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards FinalistsWhat...no ho hum for the Vendler post? Can't we give the back of the hand to the entire poetic establishment in one fell swoop?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Stroffolino 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views ; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists


  Ho hum....

  ----------
  From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
  To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
  Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
  Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2005, 7:37 AM



    on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:


       John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander'' 

      Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust'' 

      Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat'' 

      W.S. Merwin, ''Migration'' 

      Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation'' 

      _______________________________________________


    A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine the same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this list was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you Ashbery and Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't published in New York City. . . .").  

    I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle if he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long overdue recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with greater pleasure.

    Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or name one. . . .



    ====================================================
    David Graham
    grahamd at ripon.edu
    Home Page:
    http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
    Poetry Library:
    http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
    ====================================================

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct 16 12:18:40 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:18:40 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>
Message-ID: <012a01c5d26d$4ab4d380$51ae3452@ANNY>

Ok, I liked too much that _real dark horse_ :
found here: http://www.storylinepress.com/demands/demands3.html

Northwest Passage
by Vern Rutsala

Out past Sylvan Beach is the place
They still call Indian Village
Built only to be burned
The summer Spencer Tracy came to town

For years after that
Whole families would picnic there
Scavenging the debris
For rubber arrowheads

But when Spencer came
Everyone got jobs
Five dollars a day and lunch
The Depression ending with glamour

And the chance to sew on a button
For a star
Some of the men were extras
Growing beards and wearing buckskin

Rogers' Rangers looking for that passage
All summer long
>From eight to five
My father was among them

And once years later
The summer after he died
I saw the movie on the late show
I stared at it hard

Even recognized a few landmarks
I scavenged every frame
For the smallest sign of him
I found none





The quatrains are episodic, and accuracy itself is the point.  There are 
"rubber arrowheads," and there is, finally, no sentimental trace of the 
father.

I don't know if I agree with the comment: there is no sentimental trace of 
the father. For the commentator, sentimental trace means maybe to write the 
word : love, or I cry, I find this _scavenging_ highly emotional.

From: "Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:34 PM




-----Original Message-----


on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:

 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''

_______________________________________________

A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine the 
same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this list 
was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you Ashbery and 
Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't published in New York 
City. . . .").

I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle if 
he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long overdue 
recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with greater 
pleasure.

Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even 
less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or 
name one. . . .


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Sun Oct 16 12:21:56 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:21:56 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <d5.32e40ebb.3083d824@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/16/2005 11:34:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
GrahamD at ripon.edu writes:

Quick,  who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or name one. . .  .




I remembre a line from one poem long ago, a poem about the stuff that  
accumulates on the shelf over the kitchen sink and its variety as proof that "  you 
can keep everhting but promises." Although now that I think about it, I have  
to wonder if he did indeed write it.
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From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 16 13:50:55 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:50:55 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <200510161626.j9GGQKQP151132@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>

Oh vendler has written some great things about canonical writers (sx's 
sonnets, though sometimes
she tends to flatten out dickinson--and remove the possibility of alternate
readings), but yes you're right, if I'm gonna "ho hum" the list of n.a.b.
finalists, I probably should "ho hum" her as well, at least in terms of a
"contemporary poetry establishment"
(though I'm gonna bow out of this now---I plead "high blood pressure"--and
there's others on the list
who are more insistent on single-handed combat with the aging officials

C


----------
From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2005, 8:09 AM


What...no ho hum for the Vendler post? Can't we give the back of the hand to
the entire poetic establishment in one fell swoop?
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Stroffolino  <mailto:cstroffo at earthlink.net>
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views
<mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>  ; new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
<mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists

Ho hum....

----------
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu <mailto:grahamd at ripon.edu> >
To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> "
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2005, 7:37 AM


on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org <mailto:tad at opus40.org>
wrote:

 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''

_______________________________________________

A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine the
same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this list
was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you Ashbery and
Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't published in New York
City. . . .").

I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle if
he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long overdue
recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with greater
pleasure.

Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even
less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem?  Or
name one. . . .



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Oct 16 12:33:47 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:33:47 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>
	<012a01c5d26d$4ab4d380$51ae3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <016c01c5d26f$61ed9490$51ae3452@ANNY>

Hopefully it comes through:

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From tad at opus40.org  Sun Oct 16 12:56:47 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:56:47 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>
	<012a01c5d26d$4ab4d380$51ae3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <009901c5d272$98e8de70$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

The sentimentality is in the total lack of trace of the father.

But I liked the poem.

I was at Iowa with Vern. Glad to see him on the list.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists


> Ok, I liked too much that _real dark horse_ :
> found here: http://www.storylinepress.com/demands/demands3.html
>
> Northwest Passage
> by Vern Rutsala
>
> Out past Sylvan Beach is the place
> They still call Indian Village
> Built only to be burned
> The summer Spencer Tracy came to town
>
> For years after that
> Whole families would picnic there
> Scavenging the debris
> For rubber arrowheads
>
> But when Spencer came
> Everyone got jobs
> Five dollars a day and lunch
> The Depression ending with glamour
>
> And the chance to sew on a button
> For a star
> Some of the men were extras
> Growing beards and wearing buckskin
>
> Rogers' Rangers looking for that passage
> All summer long
>>From eight to five
> My father was among them
>
> And once years later
> The summer after he died
> I saw the movie on the late show
> I stared at it hard
>
> Even recognized a few landmarks
> I scavenged every frame
> For the smallest sign of him
> I found none
>
>
>
>
>
> The quatrains are episodic, and accuracy itself is the point.  There are 
> "rubber arrowheads," and there is, finally, no sentimental trace of the 
> father.
>
> I don't know if I agree with the comment: there is no sentimental trace of 
> the father. For the commentator, sentimental trace means maybe to write 
> the word : love, or I cry, I find this _scavenging_ highly emotional.
>
> From: "Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:34 PM
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> on 10/16/05 7:20 AM, TheOldMole at tad at opus40.org wrote:
>
> John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''
>
> Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''
>
> Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''
>
> W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''
>
> Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's hard to imagine 
> the same person appreciating all these poets, for instance--wonder if this 
> list was the product of a commmittee compromise.  ("OK, I'll give you 
> Ashbery and Bidart, but you have to give me some poets who aren't 
> published in New York City. . . .").
>
> I, too, am delighted to see Galvin's name here.  Though it'd be a miracle 
> if he won, it's pretty much miraculous that he was nominated.   Long 
> overdue recognition.  There are very few contemporary poets I read with 
> greater pleasure.
>
> Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even 
> less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala poem? 
> Or name one. . . .
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 13:17:12 2005
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:17:12 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <20051016122653.35725.qmail@web40425.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <003201c5d1b2$c0e2f390$26b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<20051016122653.35725.qmail@web40425.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480510161017y4ee98461y8edfbcf9878071a9@mail.gmail.com>

Wasn't Sartre's life a performance? All those days hanging out at Les
Deux Magots with De Beauvoir, arguing and writing? Or coffee and
croissants at Caf? de Flore? Isn't writing a performance?

I have no idea what Pinter, Joyce or Sartre actually changed, but I'm
glad that all 3 were alive for I think they have all changed me in one
way or another.

Sartre *refused* the nobel prize, but not for the reasons you might
think: "It is not the same thing if I sign Jean-Paul Sartre or if I
sign Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Prize winner. A writer must refuse to
allow himself to be transformed into an institution, even if it takes
place in the most honorable form."
(http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/nobel_prize_for_literature.htm)
If I am to interprete that correctly, Sartre actually approved of the
Nobel, he did not want to become an institution, something he did not
escape, I think. His name is on the Nobel website.

Interestingly, both Eliot and Yeats received the Nobel prize for
literature. Joyce was passed over for consideration so we'll never
know.

I'd be very surprised if the earthquakes flattened Al Qaeda.

Roger

On 10/16/05, Paul Murphy <clitophon at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Pinter represents the left of the capitalist system.
> Ultimately he's pleased to accept prizes from that
> system because he knows that he's done absolutely
> nothing to change anything.  Well, that statement
> seems more urgent now than ever, I mean in the light
> of recent events.  Looks like the quake did what the
> CIA could never do, flatten Al Qaeda and most of
> northern Pakistan/India.  I think Pinter has rejected
> the impulse to self-immolation represented by today's
> suicidists, instead preferring guzzling the champagne
> that will no doubt be ever-present at his speech day.
> James Joyce, Sartre and others, were writers, not a
> performing circus.  They took risks and changed the
> world which is not something that can be said for
> Pinter.
>
> --- Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure Pinter is accepting the award so he can
> > attend the awards ceremony
> > and blow himself up with dynamite in an expression
> > of solidarity with all
> > the people Bush is murdering.
> >
> > --Bob G.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>


--
http://www.badstep.net/
http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/



From clitophon at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 16 13:43:13 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <fde503480510161017y4ee98461y8edfbcf9878071a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051016174313.11043.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>

I said, he was a writer not a performing circus.  That
is exactly the same thing as an institution or a
factory.
Do people on this list ever read anything but the
received names of the West?  Do you read comics or
ladybird books or children's books or is at all
heavyweight stuff?

--- Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wasn't Sartre's life a performance? All those days
> hanging out at Les
> Deux Magots with De Beauvoir, arguing and writing?
> Or coffee and
> croissants at Caf? de Flore? Isn't writing a
> performance?
> 
> I have no idea what Pinter, Joyce or Sartre actually
> changed, but I'm
> glad that all 3 were alive for I think they have all
> changed me in one
> way or another.
> 
> Sartre *refused* the nobel prize, but not for the
> reasons you might
> think: "It is not the same thing if I sign Jean-Paul
> Sartre or if I
> sign Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Prize winner. A writer
> must refuse to
> allow himself to be transformed into an institution,
> even if it takes
> place in the most honorable form."
>
(http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/nobel_prize_for_literature.htm)
> If I am to interprete that correctly, Sartre
> actually approved of the
> Nobel, he did not want to become an institution,
> something he did not
> escape, I think. His name is on the Nobel website.
> 
> Interestingly, both Eliot and Yeats received the
> Nobel prize for
> literature. Joyce was passed over for consideration
> so we'll never
> know.
> 
> I'd be very surprised if the earthquakes flattened
> Al Qaeda.
> 
> Roger
> 
> On 10/16/05, Paul Murphy <clitophon at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Pinter represents the left of the capitalist
> system.
> > Ultimately he's pleased to accept prizes from that
> > system because he knows that he's done absolutely
> > nothing to change anything.  Well, that statement
> > seems more urgent now than ever, I mean in the
> light
> > of recent events.  Looks like the quake did what
> the
> > CIA could never do, flatten Al Qaeda and most of
> > northern Pakistan/India.  I think Pinter has
> rejected
> > the impulse to self-immolation represented by
> today's
> > suicidists, instead preferring guzzling the
> champagne
> > that will no doubt be ever-present at his speech
> day.
> > James Joyce, Sartre and others, were writers, not
> a
> > performing circus.  They took risks and changed
> the
> > world which is not something that can be said for
> > Pinter.
> >
> > --- Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sure Pinter is accepting the award so he can
> > > attend the awards ceremony
> > > and blow himself up with dynamite in an
> expression
> > > of solidarity with all
> > > the people Bush is murdering.
> > >
> > > --Bob G.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New-Poetry mailing list
> > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > >
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.badstep.net/
> http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From rog3r.day at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 14:29:35 2005
From: rog3r.day at gmail.com (Roger Day)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:29:35 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <20051016174313.11043.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <fde503480510161017y4ee98461y8edfbcf9878071a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051016174313.11043.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fde503480510161129p157a7fdepd0af7f1af14c42b9@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, sorry. I thought this was a discussion list.

I think Sartre was a "performing circus" in his heyday. In fact, a
three-ring circus, with him and de Beauvoir as joint MCs, and Camus
catching.

I'm currently liking Megatokyo, Penny Arcade and Cowboy Bebop, and can
be found in my down-time hours watching re-runs of All Creatures Great
And Small and The Secret Army (the model I now realise for 'Alloo,
'Alloo). It's not all Being And Time or l'?tre et le n?ant down at
Jollity Farm, y'know.

Roger

On 10/16/05, Paul Murphy <clitophon at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I said, he was a writer not a performing circus.  That
> is exactly the same thing as an institution or a
> factory.
> Do people on this list ever read anything but the
> received names of the West?  Do you read comics or
> ladybird books or children's books or is at all
> heavyweight stuff?
>
> --- Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Wasn't Sartre's life a performance? All those days
> > hanging out at Les
> > Deux Magots with De Beauvoir, arguing and writing?
> > Or coffee and
> > croissants at Caf? de Flore? Isn't writing a
> > performance?
> >
> > I have no idea what Pinter, Joyce or Sartre actually
> > changed, but I'm
> > glad that all 3 were alive for I think they have all
> > changed me in one
> > way or another.
> >
> > Sartre *refused* the nobel prize, but not for the
> > reasons you might
> > think: "It is not the same thing if I sign Jean-Paul
> > Sartre or if I
> > sign Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Prize winner. A writer
> > must refuse to
> > allow himself to be transformed into an institution,
> > even if it takes
> > place in the most honorable form."
> >
> (http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/nobel_prize_for_literature.htm)
> > If I am to interprete that correctly, Sartre
> > actually approved of the
> > Nobel, he did not want to become an institution,
> > something he did not
> > escape, I think. His name is on the Nobel website.
> >
> > Interestingly, both Eliot and Yeats received the
> > Nobel prize for
> > literature. Joyce was passed over for consideration
> > so we'll never
> > know.
> >
> > I'd be very surprised if the earthquakes flattened
> > Al Qaeda.
> >
> > Roger


--
http://www.badstep.net/
http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 16 16:18:30 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:18:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>
Message-ID: <008901c5d28e$c6d27f00$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>


 John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''

Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''

Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''

W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''

Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''

_______________________________________________

>A puzzling list on several levels, not just gender. It's >hard to imagine 
>the same person appreciating all these >poets.

I guess people without color vision see greater differences between shades 
of gray than people with color vision.

--Bob G.






From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 16 16:19:53 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:19:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <200510161542.j9GFgceJ413262@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <009d01c5d28e$f7fcb550$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards FinalistsChris S.: "Ho hum...."

----------
Watch it, Chris.  Pretty soon you may be accused of my level of crimes against the stasguards.

--Bob G.
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 16 16:23:52 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:23:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <200510161626.j9GGQKQP151132@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <00b501c5d28f$8675f1c0$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards FinalistsOh vendler has written some great things about canonical writers (sx's sonnets, though sometimes
she tends to flatten out dickinson--and remove the possibility of alternate readings), but yes you're right, if I'm gonna "ho hum" the list of n.a.b. finalists, I probably should "ho hum" her as well, at least in terms of a "contemporary poetry establishment"
(though I'm gonna bow out of this now---I plead "high blood pressure"--and there's others on the list
who are more insistent on single-handed combat with the aging officials

C

Make that "are" a "was," for me, Chris.

--Bob G.

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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 18:39:18 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:39:18 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <008901c5d28e$c6d27f00$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
	<002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>
	<008901c5d28e$c6d27f00$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0510161539g6099b172t354486e4930f6ea1@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/16/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> I guess people without color vision see greater differences between shades
> of gray than people with color vision.

And people with stronger vision distinguish details those with weaker
vision cannot...

c



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 16 19:53:38 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:53:38 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college><008901c5d28e$c6d27f00$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0510161539g6099b172t354486e4930f6ea1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c5d2ac$d4ef5630$82b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I'll tell you something, Chris, if someone was able to announce, as a 
practical joke, that the five poetry finalists for the National Book 
Critics' awards this year were visual poets John M. Bennett, Dave Chirot, 
Geof Huth, Kathy Ernst and Scott Helmes, I wouldn't find it hard to imagine 
the same person appreciating all these poets, even though they differ 
substantially in subject matter, proportion of graphics to text, amount of 
color used, amount of surrealism, coarseness versus smoothness ratio, and so 
forth.  Considering what's out there in the poetry world, I'd wonder why 
such similar poets were chosen.  Of course, I wouldn't wonder why such 
similar residents of Wilshberia as the actual finalists were chosen.

Here's something else for you to ponder: I don't dislike the poetry of any 
of the actual finalists.  I just have trouble with the suggestion that they 
represent some kind of reasonably full range of worthwhile contemporary 
American poetry, and am annoyed that it bothers so few people that not even 
one poet not part of Wilshberia is among the finalists, if only tokenly.

--Bob G.




From cc at opus0.com  Sun Oct 16 19:55:15 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:55:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Nat'l Book Awards
In-Reply-To: <200510161600.j9GG04M3026317@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJCELGCGAA.cc@opus0.com>

[Paraphrase-- don't recall the title]

...MOst days we wish to lie down
and sink through the floor from embarrassment
or gloom

...we save the best for the wolf...
the flesh closest to the bone where they say
the meat is sweetest-- but we know better

Fragment from a poem he had tacked to his office door at Lewis & Clarke,
around the time William Stafford retired from teaching there-- early in my
undergrad 'Road Scholar' years.  I told him I liked the poem.  He seemed
surprised, and gave me a copy of it.



> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:37:36 -0500
> From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists

> Vern Rutsala's the real dark horse here.  A perfectly fine poet, but even
> less well known than Galvin.  Quick, who here can quote a Rutsala
> poem?  Or
> name one. . . .




From cc at opus0.com  Sun Oct 16 19:55:15 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:55:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 16, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <200510131600.j9DG04M3029484@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <200510161655279.SM03760@gateway>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> [mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu]On Behalf Of
> new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Sent: Jueves, 13 de Octubre de 2005 11:00 a.m.
> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 16, Issue 16
>
>
> Send New-Poetry mailing list submissions to
> 	new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	new-poetry-owner at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of New-Poetry digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Do I agree with Collins? (Chris Lott)
>    2. RE: Dante's Inferno (Crisman Cooley)
>    3. Re: RE: Dante's Inferno (David Bircumshaw)
>    4. Re: RE: Dante's Inferno (David Bircumshaw)
>    5. Tom Beckett Editor (Anny Ballardini)
>    6. Re: RE: Dante's Inferno (Anny Ballardini)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:34:23 -0800
> From: Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Do I agree with Collins?
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<9b1b9dab0510121334k6ab084ebof24a16a48db21b2c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 9/8/05, JforJames at aol.com <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Lastly, what exactly is accessibility? I've read some
> > very 'accessible poems' (their prose meanings are not
> > difficult to parse) that are still hard to understand: nuanced, full
> > of allusions, associations, undertones, colorations and textures
> > of language, word choices, tone shifts, diction and pace
> changes, etc., that
> > would take a lifetime to tease out, if not an eternity.
> > Do you think Robert Frost, for example, is easy to read and
> > to understand? I do not.
>
> I've been travelling, but I will say this: I have no idea what
> accessibility is. Frost is easy to read, but not necessarily easy to
> understand... at least not fully. Maybe accessibility is just that
> there is an entrance into understanding that some majority of readers
> can apprehend. The negative view of accessibility seems to be that
> this is "all there is" and/or that such entrances needn't be present.
>
> My own feeling is that I don't give extra points to one side for
> making a poem that is "hard" or demanding. Sometimes that's a good
> thing for me, sometimes it is not. There seems to be a lot of points
> being handed out for mere difficulty, at least in poetry blogland :)
>
> I look at a poet like William Matthews, whose work I greatly enjoy,
> and in some my favorite poems there isn't a lot going on beneath the
> surface... but I enjoy them as I enjoy light confectionaries. I
> wouldn't want them as my sole diet, but then I wouldn't want to do
> without either. Rae Armentrout can mix up a complex, savory dish that
> has a relatively accessible meaning but also rewards more study and
> contemplation. I enjoy those too, but wouldn't want to live with
> nothing else.
>
> I don't see why the various schools, which match various desires (a
> variety of which can be within the makeup of one's aesthetic
> inclinations), can't co-exist.
>
> c
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:21:08 -0500
> From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJIEJKCGAA.cc at opus0.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read it.  I like
> Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for
> Italian (don't
> read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said some time ago
> that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
> consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
>
> After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the library and
> checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the
> reader read it
> like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could
> ignore the line
> breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
>
> cheerio
>
> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
> >
> >
> > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I would
> > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> > assembled experts
> > here.
> >
> > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent version, in
> > particular?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:20:24 +0100
> From: "David Bircumshaw" <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
> To: <poneme at lists.grouse.net.au>, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News
> 	&amp;	Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <02c001c5d001$414c20a0$28e8ff3e at rayuv8pcloxi9v>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Anyhow, interesting that Harold Pinter has won the Nobel, I'm not
> sure what
> I think about it, maybe a Long Service Award, he did though do
> that stuff as
> both cameo actor and playwright of being vaguely sinister,
> menacing even, a
> part definitely of the Sixties Brit explosion (even though he predated
> that - as in the Birtday Party)
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:21 AM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
>
>
> > I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read
> it.  I like
> > Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian
> (don't
> > read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said
> some time ago
> > that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
> > consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
> >
> > After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the
> library and
> > checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the
> reader read
> it
> > like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the
> line
> > breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
> >
> > cheerio
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> > > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
> > >
> > >
> > > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's
> *Inferno* I would
> > > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> > > assembled experts
> > > here.
> > >
> > > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent
> version, in
> > > particular?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:29:06 +0100
> From: "David Bircumshaw" <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <02ce01c5d002$784c1050$28e8ff3e at rayuv8pcloxi9v>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Re Anny's point about rhyming in Italian, I recall seeing a statement by
> someone, it might have been Montale or Ungaretti, I really can't remember
> exactly, that the problem in writing verse in Italian was trying +not+ to
> rhyme.
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
> To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:21 AM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
>
>
> > I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read
> it.  I like
> > Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian
> (don't
> > read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said
> some time ago
> > that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
> > consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
> >
> > After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the
> library and
> > checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the
> reader read
> it
> > like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the
> line
> > breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
> >
> > cheerio
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> > > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
> > >
> > >
> > > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's
> *Inferno* I would
> > > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> > > assembled experts
> > > here.
> > >
> > > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent
> version, in
> > > particular?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:47:37 +0200
> From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Tom Beckett Editor
> To: "New Poetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <007a01c5d005$0e2496e0$b3af3852 at ANNY>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> >From Tom Beckett:
>
> The issue of MiPoesias which I guest edited is online at:
> http://www.mipoesias.com
>
> There is also a podcast version of the issue at:
> http://miporadio.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=26715
>
> Enjoy!
>
> and a direct link to my poem on this issue:
> http://www.mipoesias.com/2006/ballardini.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a
> dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:52:57 +0200
> From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RE: Dante's Inferno
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;	Views"
> 	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Message-ID: <008d01c5d005$cca2c380$b3af3852 at ANNY>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Yes, I agree David,
> Anny
>
> From: "David Bircumshaw" <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 4:29 PM
>
>
> > Re Anny's point about rhyming in Italian, I recall seeing a statement by
> > someone, it might have been Montale or Ungaretti, I really
> can't remember
> > exactly, that the problem in writing verse in Italian was
> trying +not+ to
> > rhyme.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > From: "Crisman Cooley" <cc at opus0.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:21 AM
> >
> >
> >> I read Pinsky's translation -- I own Ciardi's but haven't read it.  I
> >> like
> >> Pinsky's rhyme scheme, and though it doesn't do anything for Italian
> > (don't
> >> read that romance lang, sorry-- Hey Anny I thought you said
> some time ago
> >> that rhyming in Italian was too easy! -- ergo "Pinsky's Inferno" -- but
> >> consistency is not a core value of mine either ;)
> >>
> >> After I read his translation, I found a recording of it at the library
> >> and
> >> checked it out hear all those half-rhymes in action.  But the
> reader read
> > it
> >> like a novel.  I thought that was amazing that such he could ignore the
> > line
> >> breaks and make it sound completely prosy.
> >>
> >> cheerio
> >>
> >> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:59:56 -0500
> >> > From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
> >> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Dante's Inferno
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A colleague has asked me which translations of Dante's *Inferno* I
> >> > would
> >> > recommend, and I thought I'd toss the question out to the
> >> > assembled experts
> >> > here.
> >> >
> >> > What are your favorites?  Opinions on Robert Pinsky's recent
> version,
> >> > in
> >> > particular?
> >>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 16, Issue 16
> ******************************************
>
>




From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 20:44:41 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:44:41 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <001501c5d2ac$d4ef5630$82b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com>
	<002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college>
	<008901c5d28e$c6d27f00$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0510161539g6099b172t354486e4930f6ea1@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c5d2ac$d4ef5630$82b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0510161744g5cd4041ap5501c27420824096@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not arguing that it's a "reasonable range" -- just that it *is* a
range and that it is unlikely the original poster isn't aware that
there are poets who are even *more* different.

I do think there are significant differences even in this group. I'm
not arguing that it isn't easy to list poets that are even more
divergent from one another. In other words, these poets aren't all the
same even if they don't happen to include any of your favorites, and
the op isn't ignorant in questioning the grouping.

c



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 16 23:01:30 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:01:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <731bb17a0510140725p56cf7bacr7ac917e90fd5c51d@mail.gmail.com><002a01c5d246$bbb879a0$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress><30CA3ED510E3BE4C9E3C15ADC8603F69A8D7E6@URANIUM.ripon.college><008901c5d28e$c6d27f00$a5b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0510161539g6099b172t354486e4930f6ea1@mail.gmail.com><001501c5d2ac$d4ef5630$82b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0510161744g5cd4041ap5501c27420824096@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002701c5d2c7$13434df0$82b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I didn't say they were all the same, just that they were not so different 
from one another for it to be hard to imagine someone appreciating all of 
them.

But my response is probably mostly a knee-jerk to something that seemed to 
me one more instance of David's often-stated or insinuated belief that 
Wilshberia is a broad range, and contains everything of worth in poetry. 
Which is why it's MAIN stream.

--Bob G.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Lott" <chris.lott at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists


> I'm not arguing that it's a "reasonable range" -- just that it *is* a
> range and that it is unlikely the original poster isn't aware that
> there are poets who are even *more* different.
>
> I do think there are significant differences even in this group. I'm
> not arguing that it isn't easy to list poets that are even more
> divergent from one another. In other words, these poets aren't all the
> same even if they don't happen to include any of your favorites, and
> the op isn't ignorant in questioning the grouping.
>
> c
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> 




From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 06:57:54 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog - Down Spooky
Message-ID: <20051017105754.43348.qmail@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Shanna Compton
Down Spooky

The National Book Award:
5 White Guys over 66

One can like form or one can like chaos:
the poetry of Janet Kaplan

The dynamics of interviews
and the definition of prose poem

A Duncan Delirium
from the Kootenay School of Writing

Robert Grenier
in northernmost England

Clayton Eshleman responds

Z-site:
annotating Zukofsky

Poetry news
from around the world

False Maps
from Jay MillAr

The moral poetics
of Linh Dinh

Committed to the particular:
Gas Station by Joseph Torra

Renee Gladman
and The Activist

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From clitophon at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 08:46:01 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 05:46:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Harold Pinter
In-Reply-To: <fde503480510161129p157a7fdepd0af7f1af14c42b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051017124601.36938.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>

where is that?  I thought you might be collecting
found objects like rifles or barbed wire in
preparation for the glorious day but it looks as if
you've become engulfed in comedy, or should I say
irony.  

--- Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, sorry. I thought this was a discussion list.
> 
> I think Sartre was a "performing circus" in his
> heyday. In fact, a
> three-ring circus, with him and de Beauvoir as joint
> MCs, and Camus
> catching.
> 
> I'm currently liking Megatokyo, Penny Arcade and
> Cowboy Bebop, and can
> be found in my down-time hours watching re-runs of
> All Creatures Great
> And Small and The Secret Army (the model I now
> realise for 'Alloo,
> 'Alloo). It's not all Being And Time or l'?tre et le
> n?ant down at
> Jollity Farm, y'know.
> 
> Roger
> 
> On 10/16/05, Paul Murphy <clitophon at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > I said, he was a writer not a performing circus. 
> That
> > is exactly the same thing as an institution or a
> > factory.
> > Do people on this list ever read anything but the
> > received names of the West?  Do you read comics or
> > ladybird books or children's books or is at all
> > heavyweight stuff?
> >
> > --- Roger Day <rog3r.day at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Wasn't Sartre's life a performance? All those
> days
> > > hanging out at Les
> > > Deux Magots with De Beauvoir, arguing and
> writing?
> > > Or coffee and
> > > croissants at Caf? de Flore? Isn't writing a
> > > performance?
> > >
> > > I have no idea what Pinter, Joyce or Sartre
> actually
> > > changed, but I'm
> > > glad that all 3 were alive for I think they have
> all
> > > changed me in one
> > > way or another.
> > >
> > > Sartre *refused* the nobel prize, but not for
> the
> > > reasons you might
> > > think: "It is not the same thing if I sign
> Jean-Paul
> > > Sartre or if I
> > > sign Jean-Paul Sartre, Nobel Prize winner. A
> writer
> > > must refuse to
> > > allow himself to be transformed into an
> institution,
> > > even if it takes
> > > place in the most honorable form."
> > >
> >
>
(http://homepage.smc.edu/larsen_lyle/nobel_prize_for_literature.htm)
> > > If I am to interprete that correctly, Sartre
> > > actually approved of the
> > > Nobel, he did not want to become an institution,
> > > something he did not
> > > escape, I think. His name is on the Nobel
> website.
> > >
> > > Interestingly, both Eliot and Yeats received the
> > > Nobel prize for
> > > literature. Joyce was passed over for
> consideration
> > > so we'll never
> > > know.
> > >
> > > I'd be very surprised if the earthquakes
> flattened
> > > Al Qaeda.
> > >
> > > Roger
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.badstep.net/
> http://www.cb1poetry.org.uk/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From queenmouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 10:21:18 2005
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:21:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet, 79, Wins Prize and New Audience
Message-ID: <aa458fec0510170721o747b286fj2fc02ce45dbeacf3@mail.gmail.com>

I read this in the NYT and just loved it.

Landis Everson, who was a part of the Berkeley Renaissance writers group
that included Robert Duncan, Jack Spicer, Robin Blaser has a prize-winning
first book coming out with Graywolf Press. Boston-based poet Ben Mazer was
instrumental in making this happen. (Go Ben!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/books/17poet.html

Has anyone read his work? I would like to dig up some poems.


--Suzanne Burns


--
"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style."

--Quentin Crisp
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 17 10:40:06 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:40:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet, 79, Wins Prize and New Audience
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0510170721o747b286fj2fc02ce45dbeacf3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF7921F6.150E6%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 10/17/05 9:21 AM, Suzanne Burns at queenmouse at gmail.com wrote:

I read this in the NYT and just loved it.

Landis Everson, who was a part of the Berkeley Renaissance writers group
that included  Robert Duncan, Jack Spicer, Robin Blaser has a prize-winning
first book coming out with Graywolf Press. Boston-based poet Ben Mazer was
instrumental in making this happen. (Go Ben!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/books/17poet.html

Has anyone read his work?   I would like to dig up some poems.


--Suzanne Burns
=============================

Also, is Landis Everson any relation to William E?  I haven't seen that
mentioned in any articles, but maybe I've missed something.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 17 10:40:59 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:40:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0510161744g5cd4041ap5501c27420824096@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF79222B.150E7%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 10/16/05 7:44 PM, Chris Lott at chris.lott at gmail.com wrote:

> I'm not arguing that it's a "reasonable range" -- just that it *is* a
> range and that it is unlikely the original poster isn't aware that
> there are poets who are even *more* different.
> 
> I do think there are significant differences even in this group. I'm
> not arguing that it isn't easy to list poets that are even more
> divergent from one another. In other words, these poets aren't all the
> same even if they don't happen to include any of your favorites, and
> the op isn't ignorant in questioning the grouping.
> 
> c
> 
> _______________________________________________


I guess I'm that mysterious Original Poster.  If it didn't sound too much
like the first college student's dorm-room decoration, I might take that as
my pen name. . . .

Anyway, this Original Poster says amen to Chris Lott.

When he puts words in my mouth as he so often does, Bob G. is either
ignorant of or deliberately ignoring many posts taking him to task for the
reductiveness of the "Wilshberia" label & concept, which flattens and thus
falsifies the map of contemporary poetry--the very thing he accuses others
of doing, interestingly enough.


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 17 11:13:39 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:13:39 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <BF79222B.150E7%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <BF7929D2.150FB%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Ron Silliman has a blast on his blog about the advanced age & white-maleness
of the nominees.

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

Bidart, at age 66, is apparently the youngster in this grouping.

Among other things, RS says this:  "While Ashbery is the one great writer on
this list, I?m rooting for Vern Rutsala, whose prolix, folksy verse &
Northwest regionalism is at least something different."

Which predictably makes me wonder:  has RS read any Brendan Galvin, or is he
mistaking Brendan for James, possibly?  If Galvin isn't "different" from
Ashbery, then the word has lost all meaning.

About his condescending praise for Rutsala, no comment.

Here's a parlor game:  can anyone think of an occasion where the critical
word "regionalism" was used in an intelligent and unpatronizing manner?

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 17 11:43:27 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:43:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galvin poem
Message-ID: <BF7930CE.15104%grahamd@ripon.edu>

One of my favorite poems from Galvin's *Habitat:  New & Selected Poems*.



Nimblejacks


Remember Hot Spats and the Kaiser,
who illustrated the beautiful
moving-while-standing-still word
nimblejack, a word worthy of
a class of sailboats, like sneakbox,
or sharpie?  I?m talking soupbeards
and rent-laggards like Boofer,
who checked out the coinbox on every
payphone in town.  I?m talking
skewfooted Dr. Highpockets, who?d share
the sandwich in his carrot bag with anyone.
When was the last time Pungie
yawped at you across the street to say
how well that new puddle was doing
on the wrong side of the dike?
How about Tick, and the Man of Steel,
walk-ons from normality?s hinterland,
part of the 9 percent who never have an opinion?
They were the canaries in our mineshaft,
our early warning systems, and never
disappeared into the shops all day,
but stayed on the sidewalks to hinder
the broom of the future simply by being there.
Not one ever asked, "Are you affiliated
with any academic institution?"
or propped Einstein?s essays
strategically in a window of the Land Rover,
but remember how they used to line us up
in their sights on Main Street,
leaning left and right to keep us level?

--Brendan Galvin, from Sky and Island Light, 1996
   

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Mon Oct 17 04:54:32 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:54:32 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <001501c5d24c$02236a30$6901a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <BF78D0F8.A49D%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/16/05 7:20 AM, "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org> wrote:

>  John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''
>  
> Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''
>  
> Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''
>  
> W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''
>  
> Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

The usual suspects. The list sort makes me feel like Bob G.  When will this
tired stream of middling verse stop getting prizes?


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From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Mon Oct 17 04:57:16 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:57:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <191.49ebb617.3083a029@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF78D19C.A4A0%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/16/05 7:23 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" <AlMaginnes at aol.com> wrote:

> I'd like to see Galvin get this one. A real craftsman.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

I haven?t read a lot of Galvin, but I fail to see the craft in his work. It
lacks the compression of someone like Kay Ryan and the formal elegance of
poets like Wilbur. It seems indistinguishable to so much other New Yorker
type verse that I usually have a hard time making myself read it.


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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 12:14:00 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:14:00 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <1f8.147fc127.308527c8@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/17/2005 11:59:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:

7:23 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" <AlMaginnes at aol.com>  wrote:


I'd like to see Galvin get this  one. A real craftsman.

 
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry  mailing  list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



I haven?t read a lot of  Galvin, but I fail to see the craft in his work. It 
lacks the compression of  someone like Kay Ryan and the formal elegance of 
poets like Wilbur. It seems  indistinguishable to so much other New Yorker type 
verse that I usually have a  hard time making myself read it.


To each his own.
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 17 12:24:23 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:24:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galvin's craft
In-Reply-To: <1f8.147fc127.308527c8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF793A67.1510E%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 10/17/05 11:14 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com at AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/17/2005 11:59:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:
7:23 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" <AlMaginnes at aol.com> wrote:

I'd like to see Galvin get this one. A real craftsman.




_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


I haven?t read a lot of Galvin, but I fail to see the craft in his work. It
lacks the compression of someone like Kay Ryan and the formal elegance of
poets like Wilbur. It seems indistinguishable to so much other New Yorker
type verse that I usually have a hard time making myself read it.
To each his own.

_______________________________________________


Yes, de gustibus. . . .   I did a brief review of one of Galvin's books a
few years back, which may at least explain why I concur in thinking highly
of his craft.

It's up on my website, in case anyone's interested:

http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/grahamd/DGReviewGalvinTrow.html


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 17 12:28:44 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:28:44 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re:National Book Awards Finalists
References: <BF79222B.150E7%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <007601c5d337$d7fbe9c0$77b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

>
> Anyway, this Original Poster says amen to Chris Lott.
>
> When he puts words in my mouth as he so often does, Bob G. is either
> ignorant of or deliberately ignoring many posts taking him to task for the
> reductiveness of the "Wilshberia" label & concept, which flattens and thus
> falsifies the map of contemporary poetry--the very thing he accuses others
> of doing, interestingly enough.
>
Not so, David.  Wilshberia is NOT a map of contemporary poetry, however you 
want to believe it is.  It is a small portion of the map of contemporary 
poetry.  It is not reductive or even derogatory.  It covers a range of 
moderately different kinds of poetry, much of it as good as any other kind 
of poetry.  But not on it are a great number of truly different kinds of 
poetry.  Hence, while I have no problem with anyone's praising it, I do 
claim those who believe, like you seem to, that it represents the full range 
of valuable contemporary poetry, as ridiculously provincial.

--Bob G. 




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 17 12:40:28 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:40:28 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet, 79, Wins Prize and New Audience
References: <aa458fec0510170721o747b286fj2fc02ce45dbeacf3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006501c5d339$7b4f2c30$837c3652@ANNY>

Hi Suzanne,

besides appearing on the best magazines on the net, as Ben Mazer underlines, he also appears on the Poets' Corner, site Mazer liquidates with (and on many other sites), whatever, here is the link:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=163

and if you know Italian he is also here:
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetsonpoets&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=26

Landis Everson is a most delicate and sweet person.
Forgive me for the itchiness of the previous remark, but today is a long day/week,
Anny


  From: Suzanne Burns 
  Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:21 PM


  I read this in the NYT and just loved it. 

  Landis Everson, who was a part of the Berkeley Renaissance writers group that included  Robert Duncan, Jack Spicer, Robin Blaser has a prize-winning first book coming out with Graywolf Press. Boston-based poet Ben Mazer was instrumental in making this happen. (Go Ben!)

  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/books/17poet.html

  Has anyone read his work?   I would like to dig up some poems.


  --Suzanne Burns


  -- 
  "Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and you have style."

  --Quentin Crisp 


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From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 12:53:45 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:53:45 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <1f7.1482c539.30853119@aol.com>

In a message dated 10/17/2005 11:57:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:
John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander'' 
 
Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust'' 
 
Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat'' 
 
W.S. Merwin, ''Migration'' 
 
Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation'' 
I guess my response is similar to others on a couple
of counts. Do Merwin and Ashbery need another 
nomination or prize no matter the merits of their work?

Even Bidart has had his share (nomination & prizes) 
in recent years. 

Rutsala and Galvin at least are new names to this kind 
of nomination.

Part of the problem of contemporary poetry and prizing
is the longevity of the careers of our poets; and the fact 
that so many of our notable poets (like Merwin
and Ashbery) seem to put out a new book every couple
years. Most of these prize committees should have something like
a '3 & 7 year rule'...if you're nominated you can't be nominated
again for another three-year span; and if you win, no more 
than one prize every 7 years.
Finnegan
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 17 13:13:51 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:13:51 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <1f7.1482c539.30853119@aol.com>
References: <1f7.1482c539.30853119@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6E6E2B3C-1820-4A16-9A52-98B2BC0EDB42@earthlink.net>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:53 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/17/2005 11:57:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
> paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:
> John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander''
>
> Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust''
>
> Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat''
>
> W.S. Merwin, ''Migration''
>
> Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation''
> I guess my response is similar to others on a couple
> of counts. Do Merwin and Ashbery need another
> nomination or prize no matter the merits of their work?

I think you know the answer, Jim. Do billionaires need
more money?

Hal

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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 17 13:48:34 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:48:34 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <1f7.1482c539.30853119@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00d201c5d342$ff1a40a0$77b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  In a message dated 10/17/2005 11:57:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:
    John Ashbery, ''Where Shall I Wander'' 
     
    Frank Bidart, ''Star Dust'' 
     
    Brendan Galvin, ''Habitat'' 
     
    W.S. Merwin, ''Migration'' 
     
    Vern Rutsala, ''The Moment's Equation'' 
  I guess my response is similar to others on a couple
  of counts. Do Merwin and Ashbery need another 
  nomination or prize no matter the merits of their work?

  Even Bidart has had his share (nomination & prizes) 
  in recent years. 

  Rutsala and Galvin at least are new names to this kind 
  of nomination.

  Part of the problem of contemporary poetry and prizing
  is the longevity of the careers of our poets; and the fact 
  that so many of our notable poets (like Merwin
  and Ashbery) seem to put out a new book every couple
  years. Most of these prize committees should have something like
  a '3 & 7 year rule'...if you're nominated you can't be nominated
  again for another three-year span; and if you win, no more 
  than one prize every 7 years.
  Finnegan
  How about a 3 & 7 year rule for kinds of poems?  If an Iowa plaintext poetry collection is nominated for an award, no other such collection can be nominated for 3 years; if it wins, no other such collection can be nominated for 7 years.  

  --Bob G.
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:49:36 2005
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:49:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet, 79, Wins Prize and New Audience
In-Reply-To: <006501c5d339$7b4f2c30$837c3652@ANNY>
References: <aa458fec0510170721o747b286fj2fc02ce45dbeacf3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006501c5d339$7b4f2c30$837c3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0510171149m1f68f33dt21fcdad60578baf9@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/05, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:

> Landis Everson is a most delicate and sweet person.
> Forgive me for the itchiness of the previous remark, but today is a long
> day/week,
> Anny
>


Itchy? *scratchscratch* Not at all. I am very eager to read his work, and I
am delighted to hear about his book. :-) Thanks!


"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style."

--Quentin Crisp
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From queenmouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 14:51:53 2005
From: queenmouse at gmail.com (Suzanne)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:51:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet, 79, Wins Prize and New Audience
In-Reply-To: <aa458fec0510171149m1f68f33dt21fcdad60578baf9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aa458fec0510170721o747b286fj2fc02ce45dbeacf3@mail.gmail.com>
	<006501c5d339$7b4f2c30$837c3652@ANNY>
	<aa458fec0510171149m1f68f33dt21fcdad60578baf9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa458fec0510171151w2dff04fdt63b7c20315ecd73f@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome. I love it when I feel this eager to get my hands on a book.



Where Truth Lies

The truth of your lies
renames me. I am not a name.
The street is swept of leaves.
Homeless dogs invade the park.
My own backyard could not be
more beautiful
than the shadows of difference
between what you say
and the escape of shadows
behind words.

Sun and shade.
Truth that I am loved.
People say the watchdog
will never bite
unless silence fills him.
True, I am not loved.

Listen to what you're saying.
Watch the shadow.
It covers your mouth.
Who taught you to open your mouth

against the caress of a
rough shadow?
I can't imagine a tongue
without a mouth to lie in.
Lying in your mouth.

Landi Everson

--
"Start with your identity, which is a combination of your assets and what
your friends mean when they discuss 'the trouble with you,' polish that, and
you have style."

--Quentin Crisp
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From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Mon Oct 17 07:55:19 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:55:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
In-Reply-To: <BF7929D2.150FB%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <BF78FB57.A4AD%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/17/05 10:13 AM, "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> Ron Silliman has a blast on his blog about the advanced age & white-maleness
> of the nominees.
> 
> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> 
> Bidart, at age 66, is apparently the youngster in this grouping.
> 
> Among other things, RS says this:  "While Ashbery is the one great writer on
> this list, I?m rooting for Vern Rutsala, whose prolix, folksy verse &
> Northwest regionalism is at least something different."
> 
> Which predictably makes me wonder:  has RS read any Brendan Galvin, or is he
> mistaking Brendan for James, possibly?  If Galvin isn't "different" from
> Ashbery, then the word has lost all meaning.
> 
> About his condescending praise for Rutsala, no comment.
> 
> Here's a parlor game:  can anyone think of an occasion where the critical
> word "regionalism" was used in an intelligent and unpatronizing manner?
> 
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
 John Ashbery is a regionalist.  He's of the New York region, even a member
of the New York School, a regional movement. Some regions, though, are
apparently more regional than others.

Paul Lake




From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Mon Oct 17 07:59:12 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:59:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galvin poem
In-Reply-To: <BF7930CE.15104%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <BF78FC40.A4B1%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/17/05 10:43 AM, "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> One of my favorite poems from Galvin's *Habitat:  New & Selected Poems*.
> 
> 
> 
> Nimblejacks
> 
> 
> Remember Hot Spats and the Kaiser,
> who illustrated the beautiful
> moving-while-standing-still word
> nimblejack, a word worthy of
> a class of sailboats, like sneakbox,
> or sharpie?  I?m talking soupbeards
> and rent-laggards like Boofer,
> who checked out the coinbox on every
> payphone in town.  I?m talking
> skewfooted Dr. Highpockets, who?d share
> the sandwich in his carrot bag with anyone.
> When was the last time Pungie
> yawped at you across the street to say
> how well that new puddle was doing
> on the wrong side of the dike?
> How about Tick, and the Man of Steel,
> walk-ons from normality?s hinterland,
> part of the 9 percent who never have an opinion?
> They were the canaries in our mineshaft,
> our early warning systems, and never
> disappeared into the shops all day,
> but stayed on the sidewalks to hinder
> the broom of the future simply by being there.
> Not one ever asked, "Are you affiliated
> with any academic institution?"
> or propped Einstein?s essays
> strategically in a window of the Land Rover,
> but remember how they used to line us up
> in their sights on Main Street,
> leaning left and right to keep us level?
> 
> --Brendan Galvin, from Sky and Island Light, 1996
>    
> 
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

There?s some nice sound and word play in the beginning of the poem, but the
end sounds oddly like old Ashbery himself. 
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From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Mon Oct 17 08:03:53 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:03:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galvin's craft
In-Reply-To: <200510171122520.SM00460@MAILGATE.atu.edu>
Message-ID: <BF78FD59.A4B3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/17/05 11:24 AM, "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:

> on 10/17/05 11:14 AM, AlMaginnes at aol.com at AlMaginnes at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> In a message dated 10/17/2005 11:59:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:
>>> 7:23 AM, "AlMaginnes at aol.com" <AlMaginnes at aol.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'd like to see Galvin get this one. A real craftsman.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I haven?t read a lot of Galvin, but I fail to see the craft in his work. It
>>> lacks the compression of someone like Kay Ryan and the formal elegance of
>>> poets like Wilbur. It seems indistinguishable to so much other New Yorker
>>> type verse that I usually have a hard time making myself read it.
>> To each his own.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> Yes, de gustibus. . . .   I did a brief review of one of Galvin's books a few
> years back, which may at least explain why I concur in thinking highly of his
> craft.
> 
> It's up on my website, in case anyone's interested:
> 
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/grahamd/DGReviewGalvinTrow.html
> 
> 
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

I?ll take a look tomorrow when I get a minute.  A full discussion would be
the best way to get your take.

Paul
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 17 15:51:29 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:51:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright?
Message-ID: <EB03ADA7-8CF6-42D1-8601-B7FC9FD64E5D@earthlink.net>

from a recent issue of the IHT--

Imagine a world without copyright
By Joost Smiers and Marieke van Schijndel International Herald Tribune
SATURDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2005

Amsterdam

Copyright was once a means to guarantee artists a decent income.  
Aside from the question as to whether it ever actually functioned as  
such - most artists never made a penny from the copyright system - we  
have to admit that copyright serves an altogether different purpose  
in the contemporary world. It now is the tool that conglomerates in  
the music, publishing, imaging and movie industries use to control  
their markets.

These industries decide whether the materials they have laid their  
hands on may be used by others - and, if they allow it, under what  
conditions and for what price. European and American legislation  
extends them that privilege for a window of no less than 70 years  
after the passing of the original author. The consequences? The  
privatization of an ever-increasing share of our cultural  
expressions, because this is precisely what copyright does. Our  
democratic right to freedom of cultural and artistic exchange is  
slowly but surely being taken away from us.

It is also unacceptable that we have to consume cultural creations in  
exactly the way they are dished out to us, and that we may change  
neither title nor detail. We thus have every reason to ponder about a  
viable alternative to copyright.

At the same time, a fascinating development is taking place before  
our very eyes. Millions of people exchanging music and movies over  
the Internet refuse to accept any longer that a mega-sized company  
can actually own, for example, millions of melodies. Digitalization  
is gnawing away at the very foundations of the copyright system.

What might an alternative idea of copyright look like? To arrive at  
that alternative, we first have to acknowledge that artists are  
entrepreneurs. They take the initiative to craft a given work and  
offer it to a market. Others can also take that initiative, for  
example a producer or patron who in turn employs artists. All of  
these artistic initiators have one thing in common: They take  
entrepreneurial risks.

What copyrights do is precisely to limit those risks. The cultural  
entrepreneur receives the right to erect a protective barrier around  
his or her work, notably a monopoly to exploit the work for a  
seemingly endless period of time. That protection also covers  
anything that resembles the work in one way or the other. That is  
bizarre.


We must keep in mind, of course, that every artistic work - whether  
it is a soap opera, a composition by Luciano Berio, or a movie  
starring Arnold Schwarzenegger - derives the better part of its  
substance from the work of others, from the public domain.  
Originality is a relative concept; in no other culture around the  
globe, except for the contemporary Western one, can a person call  
himself the owner of a melody, an image, a word. It is therefore an  
exaggeration to gratuitously allow such work the far-reaching  
protections, ownership title and risk-exclusion that copyright has to  
offer.

One might ask whether such a protective layer is really necessary for  
the evolving process of artistic creation. Our proposal, which will  
entail three steps, will demonstrate that this is not the case.

What then, do we think, can replace copyright? In the first place, a  
work will have to take its chances on the market on its own, without  
the luxurious protection offered by copyrights. After all, the first  
to market has a time and attention advantage.

What is interesting about this approach is that this proposal strikes  
a fatal blow to a few cultural monopolists who, aided by copyright,  
use their stars, blockbusters and bestsellers to monopolize the  
market and siphon off attention from every other artistic work  
produced by artists. That is problematic in our society in which we  
have a great need for that pluriformity of artistic expression.

How do we think this fatal blow could work? If the protective layer  
that copyright has to offer no longer exists, we can freely exploit  
all existing artistic expressions and adapt them according to our own  
insights. This creates an unpleasant situation for cultural  
monopolists, as it deprives them of the incentive to pursue their  
outrageous investments in movies, books, T-shirts and any other  
merchandise associated with a single cultural product. Why would they  
continue making these investments if they can no longer control the  
products stemming from them and exploit them unhindered?

The domination of the cultural market would then be taken from the  
hands of the cultural monopolists, and cultural and economic  
competition between many artists would once again be allowed to take  
its course.

This would offer new perspectives for many artists. They would no  
longer be driven from the public eye and many of them would, for the  
first time, be able to make a living off their work. After all, they  
would no longer have to challenge - and bow down to - the market  
dominance of cultural giants. The market would be normalized.

Certain artistic expression, however, demands sizeable initial  
investments. This is the second situation for which we must find a  
solution. Think about movies or novels. We propose that the risk  
bearer - the artist, the producer or the patron - receive for works  
of this kind a one-year usufruct, or right to profit from the works.

This would allow the entrepreneur to recoup his or her investments.  
It would still be an individual decision whether or not to make the  
large investments, for example, needed to make a movie, but no one  
would be granted rights to exploit that work for more than a year.  
When that period expired, anyone could do with the work as he or she  
pleased.

The third situation for which we must conceive a solution is when a  
certain artistic creation is not likely to flourish in a competitive  
market, not even with a one-year usufruct. It may be the case that  
the public still has to develop a taste for it, but that we still  
find, from the perspective of cultural diversity, that such a work  
must be allowed to exist. For this situation it would be necessary to  
install a generous range of subsidies and other stimulating measures,  
because as a community we should be willing to carry the burden of  
offering all kinds of artistic expressions a fair chance.


Cultural monopolists desperately want us to believe that without  
copyright we would have no artistic creations and therefore no  
entertainment. That is nonsense. We would have more, and more diverse  
ones.

A world without copyright is easy to imagine. The level playing field  
of cultural production - a market accessible for everyone - would  
once again be restored. A world without copyright would offer the  
guarantee of a good income to many artists, and would protect the  
public domain of knowledge and creativity. And members of the public  
would get what they are entitled to: a surprisingly rich and varied  
menu of artistic alternatives.

(Joost Smiers, the author of ''Arts Under Pressure: Promoting  
Cultural Diversity in the Age of Globalization,'' is a professor of  
political science of the arts at the Utrecht School of the Arts, the  
Netherlands. Marieke van Schijndel is a policy adviser and publicist;  
this article reflects her personal opinions.)


Hal           Serving the tristate area.

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 16:07:08 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:07:08 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
Message-ID: <193.4a8245fa.30855e6c@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 10/17/2005 2:57:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes:

John  Ashbery is a regionalist.  He's of the New York region, even a  member
of the New York School, a regional movement. Some regions, though,  are
apparently more regional than others.

Paul  Lake





Someone once noted that if a novelist set fifteen books between First and  
Fifty Sixth Streets in Manhattan and set the same number of books in Georgia,  
Florida or Texas, hte writer whose books were in Georgia or Texas would be a  
regionalist. The writer who wrote about New York would simply be an accurate  
observer of the human condition.
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 17 16:11:36 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:11:36 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] National Book Awards Finalists
References: <BF78FB57.A4AD%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
Message-ID: <001701c5d356$fa54b230$69aa3252@ANNY>


From: "Paul Lake" <paul.lake at mail.atu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:55 PM


> John Ashbery is a regionalist.  He's of the New York region, even a member
> of the New York School, a regional movement. Some regions, though, are
> apparently more regional than others.
>
> Paul Lake


Well yes, let's put it down this way, that the peasants that come out of the 
New York village are different from the peasants that come out of... hmmm_ 
Nals (? maybe 500 inhabitants...)

Anny Ballardini




From chris.lott at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 16:46:58 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:46:58 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright?
In-Reply-To: <EB03ADA7-8CF6-42D1-8601-B7FC9FD64E5D@earthlink.net>
References: <EB03ADA7-8CF6-42D1-8601-B7FC9FD64E5D@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0510171346r64caeebcs4776e8440810513b@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/17/05, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Imagine a world without copyright
>
> By Joost Smiers and Marieke van Schijndel International Herald Tribune
> SATURDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2005

I prefer something a *bit* more moderate-- go back to the 14 year
founder's copyright for profit activities (if desired) and use
Creative Commons licensing alongside or alone for all else.

Poetry would be much the richer for going either direction, as would
other largely profitless arts. Harder to say what would happen with
some others (pop music, say).

c
--
Chris Lott



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 17:21:08 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:21:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] VOX Reading
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510171421t472ed77fs98bc0a6780bb3022@mail.gmail.com>

Don't know if anybody on this list is anywhere near Athens, Georgia, but if
you are:
 For any readers in the Athens area:

On Wednesday, October 19th at 7:30 pm the VOX Reading Series in association
with the UGA Creative Writing Program will host a reading at Flicker Bar and
Theater <http://www.flickerbar.com/> (Washington Street, near Pulaski)
featuring new CWP students Andy Frazee (poetry), Jeff Newberry (poetry) and
Matt Forsythe (fiction). Please come out and hear their good words! This
event is free and open to the public! Visit the Athens Poetry
Blog<http://www.athenspoetry.blogspot.com/>for updates and
information.

*ANDY FRAZEE* is a graduate of the MFA program at the University of
Illinois. His poetry has appeared in such publications as *Sycamore Review*,
*Rhino* and *Faultline*.

*JEFF NEWBERRY* is in his first semester of doctoral coursework in the
creative writing program at the University of Georgia. His poems and essays
have appeared in *California Quarterly*, *The G.W Review*, *Permafrost* and
*storySouth*. Upcoming editions of *The Eleventh Muse* and *Valpraraiso
Poetry Review* will feature his work.

*MATT FORSYTHE* studied English at Calvin College and the University of
Tennessee, where he received his MA in Creative Writing in 1999. During the
past six years, he taught as a Lecturer at UT, splitting his time between
marking stories and essays and hiking the trails of the Smoky Mountains. His
wife Gretchen works as a Pre-K teacher in Oconee County.
Forgive my shameless bit o' self promotion.
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 17 17:35:16 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:35:16 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] VOX Reading
References: <731bb17a0510171421t472ed77fs98bc0a6780bb3022@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c5d362$aa70ebb0$69aa3252@ANNY>

Excellent Jeff! 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:21 PM


  Don't know if anybody on this list is anywhere near Athens, Georgia, but if you are:

  For any readers in the Athens area:

  On Wednesday, October 19th at 7:30 pm the VOX Reading Series in association with the UGA Creative Writing Program will host a reading at Flicker Bar and Theater (Washington Street, near Pulaski) featuring new CWP students Andy Frazee (poetry), Jeff Newberry (poetry) and Matt Forsythe (fiction). Please come out and hear their good words! This event is free and open to the public! Visit the Athens Poetry Blog for updates and information.

  ANDY FRAZEE is a graduate of the MFA program at the University of Illinois. His poetry has appeared in such publications as Sycamore Review, Rhino and Faultline.

  JEFF NEWBERRY is in his first semester of doctoral coursework in the creative writing program at the University of Georgia. His poems and essays have appeared in California Quarterly, The G.W Review, Permafrost and storySouth. Upcoming editions of The Eleventh Muse and Valpraraiso Poetry Review will feature his work.

  MATT FORSYTHE studied English at Calvin College and the University of Tennessee, where he received his MA in Creative Writing in 1999. During the past six years, he taught as a Lecturer at UT, splitting his time between marking stories and essays and hiking the trails of the Smoky Mountains. His wife Gretchen works as a Pre-K teacher in Oconee County. 

  Forgive my shameless bit o' self promotion.  

  Jeff Newberry


  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno

  Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 19 12:40:13 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:40:13 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Headline du jour
Message-ID: <4E6F69B7-35E5-4D56-99A0-5B39C483055A@earthlink.net>

from this ayem's New York Observer--

         Hillary's Chest
         Gets Bigger As
         '08 Gets Closer


Btw, one of our NYC pleasures is to awaken
to Pat Kiernan on NY1. At about 7:45 each
morning he does a segment called In the Papers,
in which, Uncle Don-like, he reports on the
contents of the morning's NYC papers.

One of the delights of 21st C. living is that we
New Yorkers can share such pleasures with
the rest of the world.

Click here:

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/OnTheAir/in_the_papers.jsp

Now, let's hear it for Hillary's chest!


Hal

Today's Special

The Sonnet Project
http://www.xpressed.org/hsonnet.pdf

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


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From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Oct 19 20:56:48 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:56:48 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] James Wright on ESPN 2
Message-ID: <87.32991ad3.30884550@aol.com>

Channel surfing tonite I stumble on an ESPN 2 segment
where they were featuring the poem "Autumn Begins in 
Martins Ferry,  Ohio" & talking about small town highschool football
and Robert Hass was speaking about James Wright,  and the working class 
in Wright's day and the poem, etc. Happyhappenstance...like coming up 
with a cultural fumble.
Finnegan
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Oct 19 21:00:55 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:00:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser on NPR
Message-ID: <BF7C5677.151F0%grahamd@ripon.edu>


All Things Considered tonight had an interview with Ted Kooser.  There's
audio of the interview plus readings of 6 poems here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4965544

Also, text selections of Kooser's work, photos, links, etc.

I guess I hadn't heard that Kooser's term as Laureate had been extended.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Wed Oct 19 21:12:57 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:12:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. David Citino
Message-ID: <BF7C5949.151F5%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Sad news:  David Citino has died at age 58.  I never met the man, but have
admired his underappreciated work for a long time.



Neanderthal, with Help from
Cave and Bear, Invents the Flute

In the dark cave of Slovenia,
    40,000 years of utter silence.
No one to lift this leg bone of bear.

Two finger-holes punched through
    to take the mortal breath away,
end open to let out the skein

of tones closer to human moan
    than human moan, hoot of moon
wind-honed, horned, fervid scents,

fevered puddles of bison blood, beak
    and breath of Gray Father, steam
of Mother Milk. We didn't know

Neanderthals had an ear.
    We didn't know they beatified
their dead with color. In petal,

pistil, stamen they invented
    prayer, and on the first flute
the closer-to-beastly unkin of us

worked, out of starless dark,
    the melodies of bear, and birds
lifting off at dawn. The cave

is a flute, the skull is a flute
    for wish to move through, true,
eye and nose hole waiting for

the skill to finger out our voices.
    From the bones of our parents
we tease out the music of us.


David Citino 
American Literary Review
Volume X, Number 2
Fall 1999


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From tad at opus40.org  Wed Oct 19 21:35:45 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:35:45 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. David Citino
References: <BF7C5949.151F5%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <001601c5d516$97f94620$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

R.I.P. David CitinoSad news indeed.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:12 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. David Citino


  Sad news:  David Citino has died at age 58.  I never met the man, but have admired his underappreciated work for a long time.



  Neanderthal, with Help from
  Cave and Bear, Invents the Flute

  In the dark cave of Slovenia,
      40,000 years of utter silence.
  No one to lift this leg bone of bear.

  Two finger-holes punched through
      to take the mortal breath away,
  end open to let out the skein

  of tones closer to human moan
      than human moan, hoot of moon
  wind-honed, horned, fervid scents,

  fevered puddles of bison blood, beak
      and breath of Gray Father, steam
  of Mother Milk. We didn't know

  Neanderthals had an ear.
      We didn't know they beatified
  their dead with color. In petal,

  pistil, stamen they invented
      prayer, and on the first flute
  the closer-to-beastly unkin of us

  worked, out of starless dark,
      the melodies of bear, and birds
  lifting off at dawn. The cave

  is a flute, the skull is a flute
      for wish to move through, true,
  eye and nose hole waiting for

  the skill to finger out our voices.
      From the bones of our parents
  we tease out the music of us.


  David Citino 
  American Literary Review
  Volume X, Number 2
  Fall 1999


  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Wed Oct 19 21:39:24 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:39:24 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Etan Thomas: Using Poetry to Speak to Young People
References: <BF7C5949.151F5%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <002001c5d517$19fef2f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

R.I.P. David Citino 
- It is sometimes believed that the only current event most professional athletes know or care about is the status of their contract. Not in all cases, to be sure, and certainly not in the case of Wizards center Etan Thomas, who is entering his fifth season in the National Basketball Association.

On Sept. 24, for one prominent example, the 6-foot-9, 256-pound Thomas, a graduate of Syracuse University with a degree in business management and a cascade of dreadlocks, spoke about his resistance to the war in Iraq and recited his poetry on the subject before hundreds of thousands of people at the Operation Ceasefire rally, held in the shadow of the Washington Monument. He read from his poem "Bring Our Heroes Home":

The essence of their happiness
Cloaked in a web of lies
As far as their eyes can see
They're doomed.

It is included in Thomas's recently published paperback of poems, "More Than an Athlete" (Moore Black Press). Thomas, 27, writes with passion about the necessity of education for young people, argues against the death penalty, laments teenage pregnancy and deplores the insensitivity, as he sees it, of the Bush administration toward blacks. He also skewers the gang mentality of some in the inner city.

Another of his poems reads: 

Brothers be earning bachelor's degrees in thuggenometry
Embracing the art of criminal mind states
Yes, we've been done wrong, but we do each other worse.

"I feel a necessity to speak out," Thomas said in an interview. "I want to be the type of athlete that Muhammad Ali was. Dealing straightforward with the issues of the day. There's just too much going on for me to be quiet."

He said he also admired Arthur Ashe, Bill Russell, Jim Brown and Billie Jean King for taking principled stances. 

In the introduction to his book, Thomas writes that he uses poetry "to speak to young people." He adds: "The people who kids usually pay the most attention to are athletes, entertainers, rappers, actors, etc. I don't care what Charles Barkley says, I am a role model whether I want to be or not. I use my position as an athlete as a platform. Providing a positive message to young people. Kids know more nowadays than most of their parents can even imagine, and if I can be a positive light for them, I will." 





How many of us use poetry to speak to anyone? How many think it's a worthwhile use of poetry?





Tad
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From tad at opus40.org  Thu Oct 20 02:16:15 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:16:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The National Book Award Finalists
Message-ID: <001a01c5d53d$c757ab60$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Too boring, too old, too white, too predictable and all, are now featured on my poetry portraits page:

www.opus40.org/tadrichards

and to to the Poetry and Jazz Portraits link, or directly to

www.opus40.org/tadrichards/pojazz.html


Tad Richards
www.opus40.org
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Thu Oct 20 06:46:06 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:46:06 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] The National Book Award Finalists
References: <001a01c5d53d$c757ab60$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <008701c5d563$79d8b110$96df3052@ANNY>

Poor Mervin is mesmerized, Rutsala a background extra in the movie: In The Name of The Rose, Ashbery could go shopping with that lower jaw, Galvin a crucified christ furnishing paradise, and Bidard a good kafkian secretary with strange desires,

what a zoo,

cheers, Anny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOldMole 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:16 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] The National Book Award Finalists


  Too boring, too old, too white, too predictable and all, are now featured on my poetry portraits page:

  www.opus40.org/tadrichards

  and to to the Poetry and Jazz Portraits link, or directly to

  www.opus40.org/tadrichards/pojazz.html


  Tad Richards
  www.opus40.org
  http://opusforty.blogspot.com/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From clitophon at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 20 09:33:08 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 06:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] pinter
In-Reply-To: <BF7C5677.151F0%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <20051020133308.8166.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>

someone said that pinter died 10 yrs ago but I just
discovered that he made a moon landing in 1970
so there


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From tad at opus40.org  Thu Oct 20 09:33:41 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:33:41 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] The National Book Award Finalists
References: <001a01c5d53d$c757ab60$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<008701c5d563$79d8b110$96df3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <001001c5d57a$e355e1f0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Merwin tends to have that goofy beatified expression, which is hard to capture.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The National Book Award Finalists


  Poor Mervin is mesmerized, Rutsala a background extra in the movie: In The Name of The Rose, Ashbery could go shopping with that lower jaw, Galvin a crucified christ furnishing paradise, and Bidard a good kafkian secretary with strange desires,

  what a zoo,

  cheers, Anny
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: TheOldMole 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
    Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:16 AM
    Subject: [New-Poetry] The National Book Award Finalists


    Too boring, too old, too white, too predictable and all, are now featured on my poetry portraits page:

    www.opus40.org/tadrichards

    and to to the Poetry and Jazz Portraits link, or directly to

    www.opus40.org/tadrichards/pojazz.html


    Tad Richards
    www.opus40.org
    http://opusforty.blogspot.com/


----------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Oct 21 06:07:01 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:07:01 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Maxine Kumin
Message-ID: <003001c5d627$2e74c3c0$0adf3652@ANNY>

>From today's the Writer's Almanac:

Poem: "Other Nations" by Kate Barnes from Kneeling Orion. ? David R. Godine. Reprinted with permission. (buy now)

Other Nations
For Maxine Kumin

I used to think women who talked baby talk
to their animals were the rock bottom. Now I'm not
so sure. Now I open my moth
and hear, coming out of it, :Is you
a good, good dog?" words that are falling
in their light, descending order to two pricked ears,
a hairy face, a glowing eye, an unbroken
concentration on the excellent, bone-shaped dog biscuit
I'm holding up, increasing our pleasure
with some slight, prolonging chitchat.
My neighbor Zo?,
at twelve, cries to her cat, "Oh, dearest, darlingest
Wooshiekins!" as she presses extravagant kisses
on the round head of a pale, torpid marmalade
who doesn't seem to mind (but her silent father
gets up and leaves the room).
"They are other nations,"
my own father wrote, "caught with ourselves
in the net of life and time." Of course, he meant
the wild ones, but our household allies, too,
link us to a greater world. We wish
we could speak their languages; and, meanwhile,
they learn ours.
When the rein snaps
while I'm driving home in the buggy, with Blackberry
trotting hard, grabbing the bit, through the rush
of a blustery March day, I don't start hauling
on the other rein and risk tipping us over
or starting a runaway; I call to him loudly,
"wa-alk?wa-alk?" and after he does that
he hears me say, "Whoa!" and he does that.

So how can I ever
praise that huge person enough, those twelve hundred pounds
of best behavior who may just have saved
my life? I get out and tie the ends
of the parted rein as he rolls
his questioning eye, and I pat
his strong, damp neck, repeating, over and over,
without thought, a mantra of gratitude to gods
and animals. "Thank you," I say, "thank you,
thank you, kind fate, thank you, my good, good friend!" 





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 21 09:55:33 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:55:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others:  Alice Fulton, "Diminuendo"
Message-ID: <B95E4E94-0E9B-4927-AD45-2C4D93ADE670@earthlink.net>


Diminuendo

There is another sky
and then another, in smooth
segue. The windows are flush
with its thick fortissimo
or spacious blue,
with its one sun,
open as a whole note.

And all its moods just
suit me: the self-effacing
fall sky, gray and receptive
as tape to my voice or luminous
in spring, with that glow
all gems borrow strictly from it.

Last night I heard a woman ask
a chance acquaintance, "Would you
hold me?" and thought
That's a question I'd trust
only to a lover
like the sky: too composed
for a quick or sour
motion. Its steady

glissando of light
never leaves anyone for long.
Maybe that's why
I like to be under summer's
wide sun and I like this waiting
for another sky:
a white sky that colors the world
its shade through snow's dim-
inuendo. A sky
that falls, touching me, at last
as if it too were being
diminished, when the blank below
matches the blank above
and the whole horizon goes.

--Alice Fulton

fr. *Dance Script with Electric Ballerina*

[Urbana and Chicago: Univ. of Illinois Press, 1996]


Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
           halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:    http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com






From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Fri Oct 21 04:54:19 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 03:54:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Maxine Kumin
In-Reply-To: <003001c5d627$2e74c3c0$0adf3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <BF7E16EB.A4F1%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 10/21/05 5:07 AM, "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:

>  
> From today's the Writer's Almanac:
>  
> Poem: "Other Nations" by Kate Barnes from Kneeling Orion. ? David R. Godine.
> Reprinted with permission. (buy now
> <http://mail.publicradio.org/site/R?i=80r_f_9jGj8okItauMYaNQ..> )
> 
> Other Nations
> For Maxine Kumin
> 
> I used to think women who talked baby talk
> to their animals were the rock bottom. Now I'm not
> so sure. Now I open my moth
> and hear, coming out of it, :Is you
> a good, good dog?" words that are falling
> in their light, descending order to two pricked ears,
> a hairy face, a glowing eye, an unbroken
> concentration on the excellent, bone-shaped dog biscuit
> I'm holding up, increasing our pleasure
> with some slight, prolonging chitchat.
> My neighbor Zo?,
> at twelve, cries to her cat, "Oh, dearest, darlingest
> Wooshiekins!" as she presses extravagant kisses
> on the round head of a pale, torpid marmalade
> who doesn't seem to mind (but her silent father
> gets up and leaves the room).
> "They are other nations,"
> my own father wrote, "caught with ourselves
> in the net of life and time." Of course, he meant
> the wild ones, but our household allies, too,
> link us to a greater world. We wish
> we could speak their languages; and, meanwhile,
> they learn ours.
> When the rein snaps
> while I'm driving home in the buggy, with Blackberry
> trotting hard, grabbing the bit, through the rush
> of a blustery March day, I don't start hauling
> on the other rein and risk tipping us over
> or starting a runaway; I call to him loudly,
> "wa-alk?wa-alk?" and after he does that
> he hears me say, "Whoa!" and he does that.
> 
> So how can I ever
> praise that huge person enough, those twelve hundred pounds
> of best behavior who may just have saved
> my life? I get out and tie the ends
> of the parted rein as he rolls
> his questioning eye, and I pat
> his strong, damp neck, repeating, over and over,
> without thought, a mantra of gratitude to gods
> and animals. "Thank you," I say, "thank you,
> thank you, kind fate, thank you, my good, good friend!"
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ <http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/>
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> <http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome>
> I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!
> Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 

Thanks for posting this poem. It reminds me of a classmate I had in a grad
seminar one semester at Stanford, Vicky Hearn, who wrote about animals and
was a professional dog trainer. She was convinced that dogs smiled and had
emotions, like us. And she also believed they had an innate sense of
morality?an intuition that science has just begun to confirm.

I have an eight month old Airedale puppy I talk to all the time. She?s
already a formidable beast that intimidates other dogs?like some wild wolf
who?s moved in with us to stay.  I don?t doubt that someday, if the occasion
ever arose, she?d throw herself at anyone or anything that tried to harm me
or a family member the way her hunting kin (Airedales, that is) corner and
sometimes even attack bears and lions.  How many friends will go that far
for us?

Paul Lake
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Oct 21 15:40:03 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:40:03 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Maxine Kumin
References: <BF7E16EB.A4F1%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
Message-ID: <00d501c5d677$3b95ea20$03ae3452@ANNY>

Re: [New-Poetry] Maxine Kumin
  From: Paul Lake 
  Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:54 AM




  Thanks for posting this poem. It reminds me of a classmate I had in a grad seminar one semester at Stanford, Vicky Hearn, who wrote about animals and was a professional dog trainer. She was convinced that dogs smiled and had emotions, like us. And she also believed they had an innate sense of morality-an intuition that science has just begun to confirm.

  I have an eight month old Airedale puppy I talk to all the time. She's already a formidable beast that intimidates other dogs-like some wild wolf who's moved in with us to stay.  I don't doubt that someday, if the occasion ever arose, she'd throw herself at anyone or anything that tried to harm me or a family member the way her hunting kin (Airedales, that is) corner and sometimes even attack bears and lions.  How many friends will go that far for us?

  Paul Lake 


  I agree with every word, what when they'll understand that plants, trees, rocks do the same? I might be stretching it, but it is my knowledge that we are damned deaf and blind -sort of round pumpkin heads, this what I think. That little catty I had gave me some lessons.
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From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 08:01:17 2005
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:01:17 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fall 2005 Salt River Review is now online
Message-ID: <648208b60510220501x58f90d25h2f57b2bbe363252a@mail.gmail.com>

The fall issue of The Salt River Review is now online at
http://www.poetserv.org/
Poetry by Tess Gallagher, Nahrain Al-Mousawi, Amos Tang, Rosemarie
Dombrowski, Muriel
Nelson, Judith Strasser, Matt Sadler, Ann Neuser Lederer, David Hopes,
Paul C. Howell & John Morgan.
Fiction by Tania Casselle, Girija Tropp, Mark LaMonda & Nathan Leslie.
Review: "Lady Sings The Blues: C.D.Wright, Vernacular & Visionary"
by Lynn Strongin.

-- Jim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 11:48:04 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:48:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] MP3?
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510220848m431e7277pdf6cae689e846e0a@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know who else to ask, so I'll ask the poetry crew.
 I'm doing some work on L.S. Lowry, a British artist, and I've come upon
references to a 1978 song entitled "Matchstalk Men and Matchstalk Cats and
Dogs" that's apparently a Lowry tribute. I've got the lyrics, but I'm
wondering if any of you know where I might find an MP3 or Midi file of the
song.
 Thanks in advance.
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From clitophon at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 12:06:08 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] MP3?
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0510220848m431e7277pdf6cae689e846e0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051022160608.85624.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>

I know this song.  Its not very good.

Dear Sir or Madam,
I am an artist  presently living in Belfast and
seeking an atelier in Berlin or Munich.  Can you help
me to find studio space in either of those cities? 
I've lived and worked in both cities, selling work to
private clients, cafes and to the Glyptothek in
Munich.  You can view my work here:
www.theengine.net
and my book on TS Eliot here:
www.postpressed.com.au
I also enclose a full, current lebenslauf.  If you
feel that you can't help, can you then pass this onto
someone who might?
best wishes,
Paul Murphy

Sehr geehrter Herr oder Frau,
 bin ich ein K?nstler, der momentan in Belfast wohnen
und ein Atelier in Berlin suchen oder M?nchen. K?nnen
Sie mir helfen, Studioraum in irgendeiner jener St?dte
zu finden? Ich habe in beiden St?dte gelebt und
gearbeitet und Arbeit an private Klienten, Kaffee und
an das Glyptothek in M?nchen verkauft worden. Sie
k?nnen meine Arbeit hier ansehen: 
www.theengine.net
 und mein Buch auf TS Eliot hier: 
www.postpressed.com.au
 Ich umgebe auch ein volles, gegenw?rtiges lebenslauf.
Wenn Sie glauben, da? Sie nicht helfen k?nnen, k?nnen
Sie dieses auf jemand dann f?hren, das konnte? 
beste W?nsche, 
Paul Murphy

--- Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know who else to ask, so I'll ask the poetry
> crew.
>  I'm doing some work on L.S. Lowry, a British
> artist, and I've come upon
> references to a 1978 song entitled "Matchstalk Men
> and Matchstalk Cats and
> Dogs" that's apparently a Lowry tribute. I've got
> the lyrics, but I'm
> wondering if any of you know where I might find an
> MP3 or Midi file of the
> song.
>  Thanks in advance.
>  Jeff Newberry
> 
> --
> "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing
> but death."
> --Miguel de Unamuno
> 
> Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 18:03:48 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:03:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] MP3?
In-Reply-To: <20051022160608.85624.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <731bb17a0510220848m431e7277pdf6cae689e846e0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051022160608.85624.qmail@web40422.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0510221503w333c9434v6c77e5797fe6dfa7@mail.gmail.com>

Well, honestly, I'm not really concerned over the quality of the song--not
at all, actually. I just want to hear it.
 Jeff Newberry

 On 10/22/05, Paul Murphy <clitophon at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I know this song. Its not very good.
>
> Dear Sir or Madam,
> I am an artist presently living in Belfast and
> seeking an atelier in Berlin or Munich. Can you help
> me to find studio space in either of those cities?
> I've lived and worked in both cities, selling work to
> private clients, cafes and to the Glyptothek in
> Munich. You can view my work here:
> www.theengine.net <http://www.theengine.net>
> and my book on TS Eliot here:
> www.postpressed.com.au <http://www.postpressed.com.au>
> I also enclose a full, current lebenslauf. If you
> feel that you can't help, can you then pass this onto
> someone who might?
> best wishes,
> Paul Murphy
>
> Sehr geehrter Herr oder Frau,
> bin ich ein K?nstler, der momentan in Belfast wohnen
> und ein Atelier in Berlin suchen oder M?nchen. K?nnen
> Sie mir helfen, Studioraum in irgendeiner jener St?dte
> zu finden? Ich habe in beiden St?dte gelebt und
> gearbeitet und Arbeit an private Klienten, Kaffee und
> an das Glyptothek in M?nchen verkauft worden. Sie
> k?nnen meine Arbeit hier ansehen:
> www.theengine.net <http://www.theengine.net>
> und mein Buch auf TS Eliot hier:
> www.postpressed.com.au <http://www.postpressed.com.au>
> Ich umgebe auch ein volles, gegenw?rtiges lebenslauf.
> Wenn Sie glauben, da? Sie nicht helfen k?nnen, k?nnen
> Sie dieses auf jemand dann f?hren, das konnte?
> beste W?nsche,
> Paul Murphy
>
> --- Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't know who else to ask, so I'll ask the poetry
> > crew.
> > I'm doing some work on L.S. Lowry, a British
> > artist, and I've come upon
> > references to a 1978 song entitled "Matchstalk Men
> > and Matchstalk Cats and
> > Dogs" that's apparently a Lowry tribute. I've got
> > the lyrics, but I'm
> > wondering if any of you know where I might find an
> > MP3 or Midi file of the
> > song.
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Jeff Newberry
> >
> > --
> > "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing
> > but death."
> > --Miguel de Unamuno
> >
> > Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Oct 23 16:17:29 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:17:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Szymborska
Message-ID: <BF815A09.15311%grahamd@ripon.edu>

I've been wondering when we might see a new book by Wislawa Szymborska.

Here's a poem from *Monologue of a Dog*, which is just out.


A Contribution to Statistics

Out of a hundred people

those who always know better
--fifty-two,

doubting every step
--nearly all the rest,

glad to lend a hand
if it doesn't take too long
--as high as forty-nine,

always good
because they can't be otherwise
--four, well, maybe five,

able to admire without envy
--eighteen,

living in constant fear
of someone or something
--seventy-seven,

capable of happiness
--twenty-something tops,

harmless singly, 
savage in crowds
--half at least,

cruel
when forced by circumstances
--better not to know
even ballpark figures,

wise after the fact
--just a couple more
than wise before it,

taking only things from life
--forty
(I wish I were wrong),

hunched in pain,
no flashlight in the dark
--eighty-three
sooner or later,

worthy of compassion
--ninety-nine,

mortal
--a hundred out of a hundred.
Thus far this figure still remains unchanged.

-- Wislawa Szymborska.  Trans. Clare Cavanagh & Stanislaw Baranczak.
Monologue of a Dog.  Harcourt, 2006.


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 23 19:17:48 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:17:48 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry & philosophy conference over
Message-ID: <f5.5cbd12d5.308d741c@aol.com>

The poetry and philosophy conference I was helping
with came to close a couple of hours ago. I was great...
too much to take in, bought too many books. My reading
went well and couple of the philosophy people responded
well the aphorisms I punctuated my presentation with.
In the days ahead I'll try to release a few details and 
quotes. 
Finnegan
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From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sun Oct 23 20:55:16 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:55:16 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Nu Poem
References: <f5.5cbd12d5.308d741c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c5d835$acf54a70$49ecff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

                       Fugue



It is raining in that country. Cats and dogs. I can touch the curves in your voice on the pet-lovers line. The blood is everywhere I whisper. On your pillow you murmur Taste it - it is mine.

Carnivals of carnage on car-parks and streets.

                          *

I know the ways of kebabs. And the evil eyes of knives. There is weather outside, like history, demanding to be let in.

                          *

Sometimes, when the light shines through you, irradiating muscle, cartilage, the jump-leads of nerve, the flotations of offal, the gauze of skin, the dumb beat heart, and all the other addenda and etcetera and excreta

I see, as in a blinding flash , the Divine revelation made flesh.

Like a hundred megatons of halo.

                          *

That: this. Tvat tvam asi.

                          *

There are tyres in that country, and turning wheels. Animacules are remarked of with suspicion. In shop dressers' windows, the police pose as models. Go nowhere without your private pocket calculator.

                          *

The rain is over. The all-clear has sounded. 



Best

Dave











_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 24 01:32:12 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:32:12 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry & philosophy conference over
References: <f5.5cbd12d5.308d741c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c5d85c$499b42f0$102bb750@ANNY>

Compliments again, and yes, please let us know, Anny
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:17 AM


  The poetry and philosophy conference I was helping
  with came to close a couple of hours ago. I was great...
  too much to take in, bought too many books. My reading
  went well and couple of the philosophy people responded
  well the aphorisms I punctuated my presentation with.
  In the days ahead I'll try to release a few details and 
  quotes. 
  Finnegan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 07:57:10 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 04:57:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <20051024115710.22975.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Picking a fight (gently):
John Ashbery & Other Traditions

David Bromige at 72

New Westerns:
Bill Deemer

New Westerns:
Drummond Hadley

The New Western Poetry:
David Meltzer

Crash vs. Short Cuts:
Two ways to make the same movie

Shanna Compton
Down Spooky

The National Book Award:
5 White Guys over 66

One can like form or one can like chaos:
the poetry of Janet Kaplan

The dynamics of interviews
and the definition of prose poem

A Duncan Delirium
from the Kootenay School of Writing

Robert Grenier
in northernmost England

Clayton Eshleman responds

Z-site:
annotating Zukofsky


http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From mandolin at mac.com  Mon Oct 24 20:03:34 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:03:34 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
Message-ID: <65C7A6A4-0435-4EDA-BD83-F93FA0260ED3@mac.com>

I should probably be blushing, but my little chap has been reviewed  
ar 2Blowhards: http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/002338.html#002338


From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct 24 20:11:12 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:11:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
References: <65C7A6A4-0435-4EDA-BD83-F93FA0260ED3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001001c5d8f8$9c506290$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Don't mess with my toot-toot.

Great review, Michael. Congratulations.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Snider" <mandolin at mac.com>
To: "New Poetry" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:03 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!


>I should probably be blushing, but my little chap has been reviewed  
> ar 2Blowhards: http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/002338.html#002338
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


From ATambellini01 at aol.com  Mon Oct 24 20:13:46 2005
From: ATambellini01 at aol.com (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:13:46 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] press release winner of film festival
Message-ID: <f4.5c3fed1f.308ed2ba@aol.com>

Here is a copy of the press release which announces the winner of a film  
festival who is a poet, Aldo Tambellini
 
 
Listen,  Experimental Short Film by Aldo Tambellini is a First Prize Winner 
at the  30th New England Film and Video  Festival 
Aldo Tambellini, counter-culture  rebel of the 60?s New  York art scene, a 
video and multi media  pioneer and award winning filmmaker was awarded First  
Place in the ?Experimental Short by an  Independent Filmmaker? category at last 
weekend?s New England Film and Video  Festival, held October 6-10 at the 
Coolidge Corner Theatre in Brookline, MA. 
Listen, makes a powerful anti-war  statement.  It is based on  Tambellini?s 
poetry and is an experimental work that confronts today?s political  world 
situation through the spoken word, visual poetry, written text and mass  media 
imagery appropriation.  A  segment includes sound and video clips of the artwork 
of Iraqi children  exhibited at the Cambridge Multi-Cultural Center, 
Cambridge, MA. from the show ?Shocked and Awed?  funded by the Puffin Foundation.   
The digital video was co-edited and  co-directed by long time friend and 
colleague, Anthony Tenczar, Professor of  Communication Arts Department at 
University of New Hampshire, Manchester,  N.H..  Their professional  relationship 
began in the early 1980?s when Tambellini was a Fellow at MIT in  the Center for 
Advanced Visual Studies and Tenczar was working at the cable  television 
station at MIT.  They  collaborated on several creative international 
telecommunications projects under  the name of Communicationsphere.  
Listen was presented at the HOWL Festival  in NYC in August of 2004.  James  
Wines, Founder of ?Sculpture in the Environment? (SITE), New York  City, said 
of the digital  video ?Listen?.is extremely relevant in the  context of today
?s world and represents a new creative direction in Aldo?s  work.  It 
combines video, film,  computer and Aldo?s poetic readings in a collage of powerful 
insights related to  the war in Iraq and the issue of humanity?s  destructive 
behavior in general.? 
In 1969, 36 years earlier, Aldo  Tambellini created one of the first and best 
known short experimental film about  television called ?Black TV.?  This  
film won the Grand Prix at the Oberhausen Film Festival,. Germany.   The film, 
distributed widely by  Grove Press is now in the collection of the Harvard Film 
Archives, the Museum of Modern  Art and the Smithsonian  Institute. 
The winning films and videos will  begin a tour of screenings at various 
locations.
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From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct 24 20:53:42 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:53:42 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Peter Viereck
Message-ID: <002601c5d8fe$8c36c6a0$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

An old lion, profiled in last week's New Yorker. From the article:

 
"Viereck became a historian, specializing in modern Russia, and a Pulitzer Prize-winning poet. But, in a series of books published during the late nineteen-forties and early nineteen-fifties (which have recently been reissued by Transaction), he continued to develop his political philosophy. He gave the conservative movement its name and, as the historian George Nash, the author of The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America, says, he 'helped make conservatism a respectable word.' Moreover, Viereck's belief that the United States could be a moderating influence, confronting the forces that threaten freedom and democracy without succumbing to liberal optimism, became a central tenet of conservative thought and, with the arrival of neoconservatives in positions of power in Washington, beginning in the nineteen-eighties, of American foreign policy.

"Yet Viereck never became a rallying figure. Conservatism remained largely an intellectual movement during its first several decades, from the late nineteen-forties to the late nineteen-seventies-a loose affiliation of scholars and writers who had little more in common than a hatred of liberalism and Communism, which they increasingly saw as indistinguishable. Even in this context, Viereck was an anomaly, insisting on a moral distinction between the moderate and the totalitarian left, and, as conservatives began to attain political influence, denouncing what he perceived as the movement's demagogic tendencies."

 
Kilroy 
Also Ulysses once--that other war.
      (Is it because we find his scrawl 
      Today on every privy door
      That we forget his ancient role?)
Also was there--he did it for the wages--
When a Cathay-drunk Genoese set sail.
Whenever "longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,"
Kilroy is there;
      he tells The Miller's Tale.

At times he seems a paranoic king
Who stamps his crest on walls and says "My Own!"
But in the end he fades like a lost tune,
Tossed here and there, whom all the breezes sing.
"Kilroy was here"; these words sound wanly gay,
      Haughty yet tired with long marching.
He is Orestes--guilty of what crime?--
      For whom the Furies still are searching;
      When they arrive, the find their prey
(Leaving his name to mock them) went away.
Sometimes he does not flee from them in time:
"Kilroy was--"
          with his blood a dying man
      Wrote half the phrase out in Batan.

Kilroy, beware. "HOME" is the final trap
That lurks for you in many a wily shape:
In pipe-and-slippers plus a Loyal Hound
      Or fooling around, just fooling around.
Kind to the old (their warm Penelope)
But fierce to boys
      thus "home" becomes that sea,

Horribly disguised, where you were always drowned--
      (How could suburban Crete condone
The yarns you would have V-mailed from the sun?)--
And folksy fishes sip Icarian tea.

One stab of hopeless wings imprinted your
      Exultant Kilroy-signature
Upon sheer sky for all the world to stare:
      "I was there! I was there! I was there!"

God is like Kilroy. He, too, sees it all;
That's how He knows of every sparrow's fall;
That's why we prayed each time the tightropes cracked
On which our loveliest clowns contrived their act.

The G.I. Faustus who was
            everywhere
Strolled home again. "What was it like outside?"
Asked Can't, with his good neighbors Ought and But
And pale Perhaps and grave-eyed Better Not;
For "Kilroy" means: the world is very wide.
      He was there, he was there, he was there!

And in the suburbs Can't sat down and cried.

Tad Richards
www.opus40.org
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Oct 25 01:19:46 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:19:46 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
References: <65C7A6A4-0435-4EDA-BD83-F93FA0260ED3@mac.com>
	<001001c5d8f8$9c506290$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <007f01c5d923$b71e0d90$32ad3252@ANNY>

>From me, too.

I like this:

"...because -- as with longterm friends -- you never really lose emotional 
touch. "


From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:11 AM


> Don't mess with my toot-toot.
>
> Great review, Michael. Congratulations.
>
> From: "Michael Snider" <mandolin at mac.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:03 PM
>
>
>>I should probably be blushing, but my little chap has been reviewed  ar 
>>2Blowhards: http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/002338.html#002338




From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Tue Oct 25 07:06:04 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:06:04 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
Message-ID: <62.60256148.308f6b9c@aol.com>

 



The kind of review writers hope for. Congratulations Mike. Good to see your  
work getting some recognition.
 
 
In a message dated 10/25/2005 1:20:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
anny.ballardini at tin.it writes:

X-INFO:  INVALID TO LINE
>From me, too.

I like this:

"...because --  as with longterm friends -- you never really lose emotional 
touch.  "


From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
Sent: Tuesday,  October 25, 2005 2:11 AM


> Don't mess with my  toot-toot.
>
> Great review, Michael.  Congratulations.
>
> From: "Michael Snider"  <mandolin at mac.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:03  PM
>
>
>>I should probably be blushing, but my little  chap has been reviewed  ar 
>>2Blowhards:  http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/002338.html#002338


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry  mailing  list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poe


 
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From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com  Tue Oct 25 09:14:54 2005
From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:14:54 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
Message-ID: <21b.e27f8c.308f89ce@cs.com>

In a message dated 10/25/2005 6:06:41 AM Central Daylight Time, 
AlMaginnes at aol.com writes: 
> http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/002338.html#002338
A wonderful review and entirely accurate.
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From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 10:58:47 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:58:47 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
In-Reply-To: <21b.e27f8c.308f89ce@cs.com>
References: <21b.e27f8c.308f89ce@cs.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0510250758g48d3b18at28c80dbe4bd6ffcf@mail.gmail.com>

Can't ask for a much better review than that! I can't believe I'm
about to say this, but I'd actually like to see your answer to Bob G's
question in the comments section... I've  just started reading some
Christopher Alexander (related to pattern languages  and defining of
same, which is basically a task I have before me at work) and would
love to hear an expansion on what you mean about patterns and life.

c



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Oct 25 11:23:06 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:23:06 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Notable birthday
Message-ID: <BF83B80A.24C2%grahamd@ripon.edu>

John Berryman, born this day in 1914.


A Stimulant for an Old Beast
 
 
Acadia, burnt myrrh, velvet, pricky stings.
?I?m not so young but not so very old,
said screwed-up lovely 23.
A final sense of being right out in the cold,
unkissed.
(?My psychiatrist can lick your psychiatrist.) Women get under
things.
 
All these old criminals sooner or later
have had it. I?ve been reading old journals.
Gottwald & Co., out of business now.
Thick chests quit. Double agent, Joe.
She holds her breath like a seal
and is whiter & smoother.
 
Rilke was a jerk.
I admit his griefs & music
& titled spelled all-dissapointed ladies.
A threshold worse than the circles
where the vile settle & lurk,
Rilke?s. As I said,-


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================



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From mandolin at mac.com  Tue Oct 25 14:08:59 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Mike Snider)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:08:59 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] toot! toot!
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0510250758g48d3b18at28c80dbe4bd6ffcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21b.e27f8c.308f89ce@cs.com>
	<9b1b9dab0510250758g48d3b18at28c80dbe4bd6ffcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16704824.1130263739406.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>

  
Anny, Tad, Sam, Al, and Chris -- thanks to all. And Sam, now I really will have to get new hats!

On Tuesday, October 25, 2005, at 11:02AM, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:

>Can't ask for a much better review than that! I can't believe I'm
>about to say this, but I'd actually like to see your answer to Bob G's
>question in the comments section... I've  just started reading some
>Christopher Alexander (related to pattern languages  and defining of
>same, which is basically a task I have before me at work) and would
>love to hear an expansion on what you mean about patterns and life.
>
>c
>

Chris, that's actually Michael Blowhard who talks about A Pattern Language, not me, and I think Bob was asking him. I do know Christopher Alexander's work -- it's had an amazing influence on computer programming -- and I have from time to time thought about it in connection with the sonnet and metrical poetry in general, but not in any serious way. I'd love to see it discussed here.


-----
Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. 
http://radio.weblogs.com/0113501/ for the Sonnetarium


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Oct 26 11:41:41 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:41:41 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] From John Tranter
Message-ID: <00ab01c5da43$c2f50a30$72af3852@ANNY>

---------------------------------------------------------------
"Announcing Jacket 28, October 2005"

Hundreds of pages of dazzling literature:

http://jacketmagazine.com/index.html

Editor: John Tranter,  Associate Editor: Pam Brown
---------------------------------------------------------------

Robert Bertholf's Robert Duncan

=== Robert J. Bertholf: Introduction
=== Robert Bertholf: Robert Duncan: A Biographical Sketch
=== Robert Duncan, Ten Poems, 1940 to 1980
=== Robert Duncan, Ten Letters, 1939 to 1960
=== Robert Duncan, Ten Prose Pieces, 1945 to 1978
=== Robert J. Bertholf: Robert Duncan's 'The Venice Poem' and Symphonic Form
=== Robert J. Bertholf: The Robert Duncan / Denise Levertov Correspondence: 
Duncan's View
=== Robert J. Bertholf: From Robert Duncan's Notebooks: On Denise Levertov
=== "Here at the last minute": Letters from Robert Duncan to Chris Edwards, 
1977-1980 (excerpts)
=== Robert J. Bertholf: Preliminary Checklist of Robert Duncan's Reference 
Library
=== Robert Bertholf: The Poetry Collection at the State University of New 
York at Buffalo: A Sketch

Kenneth Cox 1916-2005

=== Edited by Jenny Penberthy
=== Introduction: Jenny Penberthy: Kenneth Cox 1916-2005
=== August Kleinzahler: Kenneth Cox
=== Kenneth Cox: Donald Davie's History ( a review of Donald Davie, Under 
Briggflatts: A History of Poetry in Great Britain 1960-1988. Manchester: 
Carcanet, 1989.)
=== Kenneth Cox: Basil Bunting reading Wordsworth
=== Kenneth Cox: Laforgue
=== Kenneth Cox: Lorine Niedecker's Poetry
=== Sorley Maclean: Raasay Woods ("Englished by Kenneth Cox")
=== Kenneth Cox on Translating
=== Eliot Weinberger: Kenneth Cox
=== Michael O'Brien: About Kenneth Cox
=== Michael Hamburger: Ave Atque Vale
=== Roger Guedalla

George Bowering Feature

=== Edited by rob mclennan
=== rob mclennan: Introduction: George Bowering at 70
=== George Bowering: Three poems: His Friend Waiting / Q&A / The Figure of 
outward
=== George Bowering in conversation with Eric Eggertson, 1979
=== Jonathan Ball: "Is winter my country": Bowering's Kanada
=== rob mclennan: Changing on the Fly, The Best Lyric Poems of George 
Bowering
=== rob mclennan: from variations: plunder verse (book 3 of the other side 
of the mouth): six variations on George Bowering's "Do Sink"
=== Tim Conley: Reading Bowering Fearfully
=== Rob Budde: Curiouser: George Bowering
=== Aaron Belz: Five poems: There is Bowering / Bowering / George on a Bike 
/ Mountains are Somebody's Back Yard / Baseball
=== Kent Johnson: I Remember Once, Years Ago
=== Lionel Kearns: Calling
=== David W. McFadden: Two poems: Chinese / Saskatoon
=== rob mclennan: George Bowering Bibliography (selected)

Interviews

=== 'The Wedding Dress: Meditations On Word and Life': Fanny Howe in 
conversation with Leonard Schwartz
=== 'Making Things Difficult': Douglas Messerli in conversation with Charles 
Bernstein
=== 'Bumper-car effect': Rodrigo Toscano in conversation with Leonard 
Schwartz

Reviews and Articles

=== Joel Bettridge: Surfaces by John Tipton



=== Ken Bolton: The Roads by David Kennedy
=== Daniel Borzutzky: Immanent Visitor: Selected Poems of Jaime Saenz, 
translated by Kent Johnson and Forrest Gander
=== Kerry Brown: A Tragic Honesty: The Life and Works of Richard Yates, by 
Blake Bailey
=== Colin Browne: 'Shadowtime', Composer: Brian Ferneyhough; Librettist: 
Charles Bernstein; North American premiere: Lincoln Center Festival 2005, 
July 21 and 22, 2005; Shadowtime, by Charles Bernstein: Green Integer Books
=== Sophie Calle and Gr?goire Bouillier: Questionnaire, translated by Bill 
Berkson, answered by Harry Mathews, then by Andrei Codrescu
=== Cyrus Console: The Lichtenberg Figures, by Ben Lerner
=== Stuart Cooke: Music  Prose and Poems by Martin Harrison
=== Jon Curley: Uncertain Poetries  Selected Essays on Poets, Poetry and 
Poetics, by Michael Heller
=== Jim Feast: Poems From the Prison Diary of Ho Chi Minh, translated by 
Steve Bradbury
=== Adam Fieled: Wordsworth @ McDonald's
=== Thomas Fink: Incessant Seeds, by Sheila E. Murphy
=== Lyman Gilmore: William Bronk and Cid Corman
=== Noah Eli Gordon: Folding Ruler Star, by Aaron Kunin
=== Noah Eli Gordon reviews 23 recent American chapbooks
=== Timothy Gray: 'Fictions Dressed Like Water': Aqueous Imagery in the 
Poetry of Barbara Guest (15,000 words)
=== T.Hibbard: Avenue Noir by Vernon Frazer
=== Brenda Hillman: Nathaniel Tarn's Selected Poems 1950-2000
=== Piers Hugill: Shut Up Shut Down, by Mark Nowak with an afterword by 
Amiri Baraka
=== Paul Foster Johnson: Fourier Series, by Joshua Corey
=== Paul Kahn: three books by James Koller: Snows Gone By  New & Uncollected 
Poems  1964-2002 / Looking For His Horses / Crows Talk To Him
=== Ben Lerner: Migration: New and Selected Poems by W.S Merwin
=== James Maynard: Precipitations  Contemporary American Poetry as Occult 
Practice, by Devin Johnston
=== Kim Minkus: American Standard/ Canada Dry, by Stephen Cain
=== Jim O'Donoghue: Chronicles, Volume One by Bob Dylan, and Dylan's Visions 
of Sin by Christopher Ricks
=== Richard Owens reviews Lyric Poetry After Auschwitz  Eleven Submissions 
to the War, by Kent Johnson
=== Liz Parsons: ode ode by Michael Farrell
=== Lance Phillips: Growing Still by Deborah Meadows
=== Chris Pusateri: To Tell the Lamp, by Lisa Lubasch
=== Larry Sawyer: The Vermont Notebook by John Ashbery and Joe Brainard
=== Laura Sims: Emptied of All Ships by Stacy Szymaszek
=== Madeline Tiger: Somehow (Poems) by Burt Kimmelman
=== Jim Wanless: The Compete Love Elegies of Sextus Propertius, translated 
by Vincent Katz
=== John Welch: Being There: the literary life in London
=== Laura Wright: The Bear River Massacre and the Making of History, by Kass 
Fleisher

Poems

=== Louis Armand: Croatoan
=== Aaron Belz: Three poems: Tim Burton Explodes / In Bed with Meryl Streep 
/ Gary Cooper in the Intellectual Graveyard
=== Stephen Bett: For the Nine Guys
=== Bill Berkson: Exhibit A
=== Rachel Blau DuPlessis: Draft 66: Scroll
=== Tom Clark: All: for Robert Creeley (1926-2005)
=== Joshua Clover: Three poems: Triple Sonnet / Early Style / Whiteread Walk
=== Clayton Eshleman: Two poems: An Arsenal In Seattle / Monumental
=== Landis Everson: Woof
=== Annie Finch: Excerpt from The Encyclopedia of Scotland, Section 4: 
'Feeding the Admiral's Pussycat'
=== Vincent Katz: Three poems: Psalm / The Regattas at Sainte-Adresse / Hell
=== Philip Hammial: Three poems: Grammar / France / Kamikaze
=== Lawrence Joseph: The Bronze-Green Gold-Green Foreground / On That Side / 
The Pattern-Parallel Map Or Graph
=== David Lehman: To You
=== Joel Lewis: Eight Poems From "Anhedonia"
=== Steve McOrmond: Happy Hour
=== Ange Mlinko: Two Poems: Femme Fatale Geography / Everything's Carousing
=== Chus Pato: CHARENTON (excerpt), translated from the Galician by Er?n 
Moure
=== Er?n Moure: Extract from 'The Fall'
=== Stephen Ratcliffe: Poems from HUMAN / NATURE
=== Peter Robinson: from Other Trespasses
=== Linda Russo: 'I was a doctor...' / perfecto fiesta / gender mark-down / 
It's a boy and It's a girl / "Photoillustration of Martha's last laugh" and 
"post-attack" / 'Here is love and peace' / 'My biggest problem' / 'don't do 
or say that to that'
=== Lisa Samuels: Two poems: I'm not waiting for anything / Riddle of the 
covering cherub
=== Anamar?a Crowe Serrano: Pitter patter
=== Peter Jay Shippy: Tristan & Isolde
=== Spencer Selby: Three poems: Patex Ont / Please Wireless / Original 
Veneer
=== Pete Spence: Heading...For a fall
=== Erik Sweet: Two poems: 8 Tender Buttons / Double a World
=== Rodrigo Toscano: Truax Inimical
=== C?sar Vallejo: Two poems, translated by Clayton Eshleman: The Book Of 
Nature / Let the Millionaire Walk Naked
=== John Wilkinson: Crown of Nettles
=== Lewis Warsh: Reversible Destiny



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From scrimple101 at yahoo.com.au  Thu Oct 27 03:50:13 2005
From: scrimple101 at yahoo.com.au (robert lane)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:50:13 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Malleable Jangle Spring online 
In-Reply-To: <200510261600.j9QG04M4027004@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20051027075013.72262.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com>


The Spring edition of Malleable Jangle is now online. It features quality poetry from around the globe. Spring includes these poets:

Glenn W Cooper
S.P. Flannery
Kenneth P Gurney
Lynn Strongin
Duane Locke
Peter Macrow
Peter O'Mara
Amy Trussell
Rob Walker
Dru Philippou
 
They say Spring is the best time to read poetry so why not drop by and stay for a while; you're most welcome. 
Here's to warm balmy nights listening to the wind rustle in the palm trees. This issue hightlights the work of Peter O'Mara. Make sure you navigate through his unique concrete/visual poems.
So just in case you don't know where it is: http://www.malleablejangle.netfirms.com
Best regards, Robert Lane.



		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Oct 27 22:20:28 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:20:28 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Levine lecture at BU
Message-ID: <1e4.47415e54.3092e4ec@aol.com>

http://www.buworldofideas.org/shows/2005/10/20051023.asp
 
 
Sunday, October 23, 2005
Award-winning poet Philip Levine
Listen to this show
 
This week's show featured a lecture by award-winning poet Philip Levine who 
was introduced by the Director of the Boston University's Graduate Creating 
Writing program, Leslie Epstein.
 
Levine has earned nearly every major prize available to an American poet, 
including: the Pulitzer Prize, the National Book Award, the National Book Critics 
Circle Award, and the Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize. He is the author of 
sixteen books of poetry including: "The Mercy," "The Simple Truth," and "Ashes: 
Poems New And Old." 
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From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Oct 27 22:20:49 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:20:49 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Collins: trifles mingle with deep reflections
Message-ID: <155.5c11ebd0.3092e501@aol.com>

http://www.twincities.com/mld/miamiherald/entertainment/books/12969383.htm?sou
rce=rss&channel=miamiherald_books
 
Words of joy and woe
 
A poet's charming everyday trifles mingle with deep reflections on darker 
subjects
 
BY MICHAEL HETTICH
  
In his new collection, former U.S. poet laureate Billy Collins offers 
charming, witty anecdotes that occasionally plumb the deeper currents running beneath 
their evocations of ''toast in the toaster'' and ''a cold bottle of beer on 
the back terrace.'' These meandering, self-satisfied, gently self-mocking poems 
are as enjoyable and undemanding as light conversation with intelligent 
friends, or a sip of good champagne.
 
Occasionally in The Trouble with Poetry Collins challenges himself -- and his 
large audience -- with genuinely probing poems that, though still accessible, 
sound darker, more haunting harmonies. These poems redeem an otherwise 
forgettable book.
 
 
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From r_loden at sbcglobal.net  Thu Oct 27 22:36:26 2005
From: r_loden at sbcglobal.net (Rachel Loden)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:36:26 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] here comes everybody
In-Reply-To: <20051027075013.72262.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c5db68$68686140$220110ac@GLASSCASTLE>


If you're bored waiting for indictments, please check out
 
http://www.herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com/
 
where I'm interviewed, along with a lot of interesting people in the
archives (where I'll be in a few days).
 
Rachel

----------------------------------------------------------

People that are really weird can get into sensitive 
positions and have a tremendous impact on history.
  --J. Danforth Quayle

Rachel Loden
The Richard Nixon Snow Globe:
http://www.wildhoneypress.com/BOOKS/RNSG.htm
Hotel Imperium:
http://www.thepomegranate.com/loden/hotel.html

r_loden at sbcglobal.net




From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Oct 27 23:18:04 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:18:04 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pacheco chosen
Message-ID: <206.cc6482a.3092f26c@aol.com>

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/515602/?sc=rsln
Newswise ? Another honor for Distinguished University Professor Jose Emilio 
Pacheco. The world-renowned Latin American poet has been awarded the 2005 
International Poetry Prize of Granada (Spain), which is given to honor famed 
Granada poet, Federico Garcia Lorca. Pacheco, who lives with his family in Mexico 
City, is a full time member of the Maryland faculty and offers two graduate 
classes each Spring.
More than 30 poets from Spain and Latin America were considered for the 
prize. Prof. Pacheco is the second person to receive the award. He was notified 
during a phone call earlier this month from Granada Mayor Jos? Torres Hurtado. 
"This is not a personal achievement, but a distinction for all Mexican Poetry," 
Pacheco said.
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From tad at opus40.org  Fri Oct 28 09:43:20 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:43:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiting Awards
Message-ID: <001a01c5dbc5$8fb6cf90$6501a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

 The Whiting Writers' Awards, presented annually to emerging authors who are judged to demonstrate exceptional talent and promise, to the following poets:

 John Keene, a professor at Northwestern University who has published a novel, "Annotations" (New Directions), and who also has a forthcoming book of poetry, "Seismosis."   Thomas Sayers Ellis, who teaches at Case Western Reserve University and whose first book, "The Maverick Room" (Graywolf Press), was published this year; Ilya Kaminsky, who was born in Ukraine and now lives in Berkeley, Calif., and whose book "Dancing in Odessa" (Tupelo Press) was published last year; Dana Levin, who lives in Santa Fe, N.M., and is the author of two poetry books, "In the Surgical Theater" and "Wedding Day" (Copper Canyon Press); Spencer Reece of Juno Beach, Fla., whose "Clerk's Tale" (Mariner Books) was published last year; and Tracy K. Smith, the author of "The Body's Question" (Graywolf), who lives in Brooklyn. 

Here's some work.

By John Keene:

 IONISATION 


Yardbird drops to the sofa in a trichord haze. 
Edgard leans in, his rug-lined study on Sullivan 
steeping: mid-July. Ink veins his shirtsleeves,
his mind leaping with an arrangement 
of percussive possibilities. The Baroness,
dragging on a bidi, asks Charlie whether Chan
can hear a pin drop when he solos as she can. 
Or could: she is already losing her upper register.
Edgard, silent, could answer that perception 
consists in orders of mastery. So as with genius. 
The hardest art, Parker's, appears effortless.
Louise enters with a tray of tea 
and salmon sandwiches, returns to her translations. 
"Mon semblable, mon fr?re...." 
What is the phrase that Parker is mumbling? 
Black figures ambling across a snow- 
jazzed...-no, no, mon ami-notes: 
he wants to learn how to read them. 
Edgard considers this proposition, 
given that gifts such as Parkers 
can hardly be set down on paper. 
Where to begin? Wielding his score 
of "Am?riques" before the afternoon's pale bars, 
his thoughts hop from scale to scale, 
losing Bird to a swallow of Waller 
that nests in his consciousness. Ablaze 
with boredom, the Baroness rises and departs,
later denies this scene ever took place. 
Louise continues casting her net upon 
a French sea, hearing Parker's sweet 
assents that sound like moans, her husband's 
faltering voice, the ever-confident 
pianoforte. "I is another."



by Thomas Sayers Ellis

 Day off in dark suit & hat,
looking though the viewfinder
of a new eight-millimeter Bell & Howell camera,
paying no mind the open windows, the seizure.
Just how more than half the targets on the grassy knoll
are potential customers, models, women,
how accident & aim could fit them all,
including the car, into frame. It was the Sixties,
so before the volume of The Motorcade
turned north up Houston then down on Elm,
they passed the camera between them like a joint,
a silent investment. His secretary stood next to him,
confident that their film would change lives,
that what the women wore to greet The President
would influence their sewing machines & needles.
Clicking the power on added something
above & below human to autumn. Now comes history,
that moment when everything begins to wave:
arms, flags, lens, minutes, seconds, silence,
dressmaker, souvenir, evidence. 


by Ilya Kaminsky

 
AUTHOR'S PRAYER



If I speak for the dead, I must

leave this animal of my body, 



I must write the same poem over and over

for the empty page is a white flag of their surrender. 



If I speak of them, I must walk

on the edge of myself, I must live as a blind man 



who runs through the rooms without

touching the furniture. 



Yes, I live. I can cross the streets asking "What year

is it?"

I can dance in my sleep and laugh 



in front of the mirror.

Even sleep is a prayer, Lord, 



I will praise your madness, and

in a language not mine, speak 



of music that wakes us, music

in which we move. For whatever I say 



is a kind of petition and the darkest days

must I praise. 





by Dana Levin

CIlice

 

             Strap the spiked belt round your trembling thigh,
you're in the grip of flesh-

             Each spike digs for its nip.

             Each spike christens its
silver throne-

             in a din of pain against the cock's
call, the body's
             barnyard 

             of want-

                                         -

             But to be released by the iron thorn.

             To feel His lamp, His
lion's clamp-

             so that His black breath comes and
clouds the eye, and you are lifted
             upon His Word-

             Bad dog, the body is.

             You must make it eat the light.





by Spencer Reece

Portofino



  Promise me you will not forget Portofino.
  Promise me you will find the trompe l'oeil
  on the bedroom walls at the Splendido.
  The walls make a scene you cannot enter.

  Perhaps then you will comprehend this longing
  for permanence I often mentioned to you.
  Across the harbor? A yellow church. A cliff.
  Promise me you will witness the day diminish.

  And when the roofs darken, when the stars drift
  until they shatter on the sea's finish,
  you will know what I told you is true
  when I said abandonment is beautiful.





by Tracy K. Smith

 
Mangoes
The woman in a blouse
The color of daylight
Motions to her daughter not to slouch.
They wait without luggage.
They have been waiting
Since before the station smelled
Of cigarettes. Shadows
Fill the doorway and fade
One by one
Into bloated faces.
She'd like to swat at them
Like the lazy flies
That swarm her kitchen.

She considers her hands, at rest
Like pale fruits in her lap. Should she
Gather them in her skirt and hurry
Down the tree in reverse, greedy
For a vivid mouthful of something
Sweet? The sun gets brighter
As it drops low. Soon the room
Will glow gold with late afternoon.
Still no husband, face creased from sleep,
His one bag across his chest. Soon
The windows will grow black. Still
No one with his hand always returning
To the hollow below her back.

Desire is a city of yellow houses
As it surrenders its drunks to the night.
It is the drunks on ancient bicycles
Warbling into motionless air,
And the pigeons, alseep in branches,
That will repeat the same songs tomorrow
Believing them new. Desire is the woman
Awake now over a bowl of ashes
That flutter and drop like abandoned feathers.
It's the word widow spelled slowly in air
With a cigarette that burns
On its own going.














Tad Richards
www.opus40.org
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
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From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Fri Oct 28 11:33:48 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:33:48 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Whiting Awards
Message-ID: <34A02E44.5E3C34DE.0A8DF90F@aol.com>

Whew--I was getting worried. Spencer Reese had gone almost a month without winning an award. 


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Oct 28 16:21:51 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:21:51 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] translating Santiago Serra
Message-ID: <030801c5dbfd$3b7b91d0$97a33852@ANNY>

There is no randomness in the presence of a guardian at the entrance of an exhibit or of an exotic plant in a corner, someone decided that there they had to be. 

And it is right because I do not believe in the innocence of the object that I do art.

Santiago Serra

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Oct 29 03:48:54 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:48:54 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Money Medicine Poem
Message-ID: <013701c5dc5d$3690dda0$07ed3652@ANNY>

>From the Writer's Almanac - http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/

Poem: "Money Medicine Poem" by Martin Steingesser, from Brothers of Morning. ? A Deerbrook Edition, 2002. Reprinted with permission. 


Money Medicine Poem 

$11.3 million, what does James Mellor of General Dynamics do with it?
In how many beds does he sleep?
I want to know, how many breakfasts does he eat?
$11.3 million-that is every year, year after year.
What does he do with it?
James, how many copy machines do you have?
How many shredders?
Do you keep one in the bathroom?
How many suits do you own?
How many closets for the secrets money keeps?
Secrets? Does money keep secrets?
Year after year, 11.3 million.
Why so much in corporate pockets?
I need a chant to bring dollars back in my life.

Om Bram Brie Hasti Pat? Yea Na Ma Om

I need a moon to draw the oceans of money back.
What does AT&T executive Bob Allen do with $9 million in stock options?
It's a great system we have.
Secrets? What secrets?
AT&T lays off 40,000 workers.
Robert Allen, you must feel like a god.
Robert Allen gets $9 million.
What are you building out of our conversations?
What is your phone number, anyway?
Will you answer a call?

Om Bram Brie Hasti Pat? Yea Na Ma Om

How do we reach corporate dynamos to buy girl scout cookies?
How do we call when we want to rent a bus for the school picnic?
How do we call when the soup kitchen's out of soup?
How come big bucks stuff so few pockets?

It's a wonderful system we've got, all our money on the top floor,
corporate executives calling the truths we live.
Families of gods, like up on Mount Olympus, great scraperskies of CEOs.
One of them markets 100% water for juice,
another mainlines cigarettes,
another the medicines for smokers,
another pumps cancer into rivers and lakes, into oceans of air,
another lobbies for tax breaks to clean up the mess.
Great system we've got, billions stuffed in so few pockets.
I want a chant to bring the dollars back-

Om Bram Brie Hasti Pat? Yea Na Ma Om

Give me those pants with money pockets,
closetfuls of pants, big bucks in the pockets.
Lean back, feet up, have a million dollar stogie,
Blow giant smoke rings over Broadway.
I want a chant, put the moon back in my pocket. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Oct 29 08:54:51 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:54:51 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] the horror of the common sense
Message-ID: <007c01c5dc87$f5b0af60$07ed3652@ANNY>

I just translated this, which might be of interest to the few.



by Pier Luigi Tazzi

 

 

Since always and among other things, art has looked at the culture of its own time of which it is one of its highest expressions. Thus a contemporary art research center, today, but also in other epochs, should be endowed with all those tools that, on one side, should make all existing relationships with the other forms of knowledge and of expression visible, and on the other side, favor a synergy. Already starting from the Seventies in all our Western Art universe, and still, and with a greater aware specificity in the following decade, the single artist performed by drawing from various disciplinary practices besides the various media, to reach the definition of his own artwork. And today, even if the various disciplines are well-defined, there are artists that - within the specificity of their own stylistic code and of their own field of interest - go indiscriminately back to what the technology and the culture of our times make available to them. This happens by now not only in the orchard of Western Art, but at a planetary level. By which it becomes increasingly suitable and, in a certain way, necessary, to create art centers to which the various disciplines flow, institutions that join in their own operative environment: theory, practice, productions and research on a multidisciplinary structural ground.

The Academy, on one side, and the Museum, on the other, two places that have determined the change of art, first in the West and then at the actual stage of facts on a planetary level, are crossed today by this same tension of change, i.e. of a modification of its own constituting and operative functions in order to be able to welcome and favor what is happening in the domain of art, when their historical forms would not even be able to accept, or acknowledge them. Therefore, when Academy and Museum show a default under this profile, new institutions will have to be created less bound by roles and traditions and capable of bringing forth the said needs and instances.

Of the by now ancient gap, which anyhow is still open between art and society, especially in less advanced cultural areas, like Italy for example - the situation of museums and of the Italian academies is much weaker when compared to the rest of Western Europe, from the Scandinavian Countries to Spain - a leveling could be attempted through quick intervention projects that could be shared, which are still quite difficult to perform if we start only from the existing museum structures and the academies, independently from their respective degree of historical, economic and territorial consolidation, and the advanced they could be.

At the moment, and never before, the urgency to endow the planetary community - corroded and crossed by the most oblique outbursts of nationalism and of religious fundamentalism of the various monotheisms, more and more conditioned by a market economy the destructive effects of which are daily seen on the environment, of our civil living and of the individual and social cultural richness - with tools able to operate a deconstructive analysis of the actual state of things, to elaborate and to favor alternative development projects of a civil social and cultural life in common, to pull down the various barriers set by political reasons and by privileges, more or less legitimately acquired of the power centers that aim to regulate the life and the destiny of the multitudes.

All this apparently lies outside the duties of art, but more often the artists of our time take upon themselves this role and their individual action implies a desultory, often partial, separated and limitedly shared partaking. The artist qualifies himself as the builder of the order of a symbolic universe different from the one of the representations of the great world. 

In this way he supports his own part in spite of any evident or occult attempt to limit freedom of expression and the manifestation of desire, or, which is the same, to conform them to the various normative formulas that preside the actual market economy, and therefore he does not need in himself institutions that support him or protect him to exist. But at the same time he is not able, if not in a partial - I am repeating - way to transfer value, and the values of his own experience to multitudes, not conceived any more as masses of neutral and anonymous people, but as agglomerates of diversities. From them the artist draws a sort of vital sap that will inform, in the better of cases, his own work. But the results of his work, even if valid, have not little difficulty in being passed, in terms of communication, over to multitudes, and in this way, to give visibility to their instance, to endow them of a symbolic apparatus, to enrich them with an individual specific effect - freedom as the contraposition of identity -, which is, and does not represent, what was elaborated by the artist starting right from that substance.

Then, not only the univocity of the Museum and its parallel one of the Academy would be forced towards an opening through their own limits, but their same univocity would be put into question by the emerging of the difference. A difference not reduced any more to an object of study of a social anthropology, but made lively and active in its own particular substance, particularity which is by itself energy in front of the "power of all" that homologates and standardizes to the horror of "common sense".


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Oct 29 12:14:34 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:14:34 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
In-Reply-To: <200510272011.j9RKB9DB022248@poets3.client.logicworks.net>
Message-ID: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu>

For those of you in the New York City area. . . .

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


----------
From: poetnews at poets.org;
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:11:09 -0400
Subject: PoetryNYC: New from Poets.org


Poets.org is pleased to announce a new service for poetry lovers  in the New
York City area. Poetry NYC, a newsletter dedicated to keeping you up to date
on the many  events hosted by the Academy of American Poets in New York
City, will be sent to subscribers for the first time this week.

Sign up now and you'll receive timely announcements and reminders for
upcoming  readings, lectures, and  events sponsored by the Academy.

If you haven't been keeping up with our   events, then here's a little of
what you've been missing:
Just last week we hosted a reading by Rita Dove, a rare New York City
appearance by the former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize-winner.
This summer, the Academy curated a popular outdoor reading series in Bryant
Park. Amidst the wind, shade trees, and passing sirens, the monthly readings
have welcomed crowds of over a hundred each time to hear up-and-coming poets
read both published and unpublished work.
We host weekly readings and lectures during National Poetry Month, as well
as the  annual Poetry & the Creative Mind
<http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/92>  gala, an extraordinary evening in
which some of America?s leading artists, scholars, and public figures
celebrate the role of contemporary poetry in American culture. Last year,
our special guest readers included Meryl Streep, Liam Neeson, Tony Kushner,
and Dan Rather. 
Upcoming events include a reading
<http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3909>  on November 17 by the
luminaries of the Academy's Board of Chancellors; a late-October celebration
of W.H. Auden <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/4096> ; and the
always popular Academy Awards Ceremony
<http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3907> , featuring the winners
of our book awards and the Academy's $100,000 lifetime achievement award.

Sign up now at www.poets.org/poetrynyc to receive Poetry NYC.

Poetry NYC is free, and you can unsubscribe at any time. Your contact
information will be used only in association with this newsletter; the
Academy of American Poets will never sell your email address or give it to
any third party. 

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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct 29 13:43:33 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:43:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <003501c5dcb0$48d79550$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

PoetryNYCGlad they're up and running full blast again -- a terrific organization,
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:14 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC


  For those of you in the New York City area. . . .

  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================


  ----------
  From: poetnews at poets.org;
  Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:11:09 -0400
  Subject: PoetryNYC: New from Poets.org


  Poets.org is pleased to announce a new service for poetry lovers  in the New York City area. Poetry NYC, a newsletter dedicated to keeping you up to date on the many  events hosted by the Academy of American Poets in New York City, will be sent to subscribers for the first time this week. 

  Sign up now and you'll receive timely announcements and reminders for upcoming  readings, lectures, and  events sponsored by the Academy. 

  If you haven't been keeping up with our   events, then here's a little of what you've been missing: 

    a.. Just last week we hosted a reading by Rita Dove, a rare New York City appearance by the former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize-winner. 
    b.. This summer, the Academy curated a popular outdoor reading series in Bryant Park. Amidst the wind, shade trees, and passing sirens, the monthly readings have welcomed crowds of over a hundred each time to hear up-and-coming poets read both published and unpublished work. 
    c.. We host weekly readings and lectures during National Poetry Month, as well as the  annual Poetry & the Creative Mind <http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/92>  gala, an extraordinary evening in 
    d.. which some of America?s leading artists, scholars, and public figures celebrate the role of contemporary poetry in American culture. Last year, our special guest readers included Meryl Streep, Liam Neeson, Tony Kushner, and Dan Rather. 

  Upcoming events include a reading <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3909>  on November 17 by the luminaries of the Academy's Board of Chancellors; a late-October celebration of W.H. Auden <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/4096> ; and the always popular Academy Awards Ceremony <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3907> , featuring the winners of our book awards and the Academy's $100,000 lifetime achievement award. 

  Sign up now at www.poets.org/poetrynyc to receive Poetry NYC. 

  Poetry NYC is free, and you can unsubscribe at any time. Your contact information will be used only in association with this newsletter; the Academy of American Poets will never sell your email address or give it to any third party. 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct 29 13:45:25 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:45:25 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <003f01c5dcb0$8b248b70$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

PoetryNYCOh, that's the Academy of American Poets. Good for them. But there used to be another poetry NYC organization, which was what I was thinking of.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:14 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC


  For those of you in the New York City area. . . .

  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================


  ----------
  From: poetnews at poets.org;
  Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:11:09 -0400
  Subject: PoetryNYC: New from Poets.org


  Poets.org is pleased to announce a new service for poetry lovers  in the New York City area. Poetry NYC, a newsletter dedicated to keeping you up to date on the many  events hosted by the Academy of American Poets in New York City, will be sent to subscribers for the first time this week. 

  Sign up now and you'll receive timely announcements and reminders for upcoming  readings, lectures, and  events sponsored by the Academy. 

  If you haven't been keeping up with our   events, then here's a little of what you've been missing: 

    a.. Just last week we hosted a reading by Rita Dove, a rare New York City appearance by the former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize-winner. 
    b.. This summer, the Academy curated a popular outdoor reading series in Bryant Park. Amidst the wind, shade trees, and passing sirens, the monthly readings have welcomed crowds of over a hundred each time to hear up-and-coming poets read both published and unpublished work. 
    c.. We host weekly readings and lectures during National Poetry Month, as well as the  annual Poetry & the Creative Mind <http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/92>  gala, an extraordinary evening in 
    d.. which some of America?s leading artists, scholars, and public figures celebrate the role of contemporary poetry in American culture. Last year, our special guest readers included Meryl Streep, Liam Neeson, Tony Kushner, and Dan Rather. 

  Upcoming events include a reading <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3909>  on November 17 by the luminaries of the Academy's Board of Chancellors; a late-October celebration of W.H. Auden <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/4096> ; and the always popular Academy Awards Ceremony <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3907> , featuring the winners of our book awards and the Academy's $100,000 lifetime achievement award. 

  Sign up now at www.poets.org/poetrynyc to receive Poetry NYC. 

  Poetry NYC is free, and you can unsubscribe at any time. Your contact information will be used only in association with this newsletter; the Academy of American Poets will never sell your email address or give it to any third party. 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct 29 13:46:52 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:46:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <004901c5dcb0$bf12c3c0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

PoetryNYCAnd...I googled...it is still there. I'd lost it off my faves list with a computer change. http://www.poetz.com/calendar/

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:14 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC


  For those of you in the New York City area. . . .

  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================


  ----------
  From: poetnews at poets.org;
  Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:11:09 -0400
  Subject: PoetryNYC: New from Poets.org


  Poets.org is pleased to announce a new service for poetry lovers  in the New York City area. Poetry NYC, a newsletter dedicated to keeping you up to date on the many  events hosted by the Academy of American Poets in New York City, will be sent to subscribers for the first time this week. 

  Sign up now and you'll receive timely announcements and reminders for upcoming  readings, lectures, and  events sponsored by the Academy. 

  If you haven't been keeping up with our   events, then here's a little of what you've been missing: 

    a.. Just last week we hosted a reading by Rita Dove, a rare New York City appearance by the former U.S. Poet Laureate and Pulitzer Prize-winner. 
    b.. This summer, the Academy curated a popular outdoor reading series in Bryant Park. Amidst the wind, shade trees, and passing sirens, the monthly readings have welcomed crowds of over a hundred each time to hear up-and-coming poets read both published and unpublished work. 
    c.. We host weekly readings and lectures during National Poetry Month, as well as the  annual Poetry & the Creative Mind <http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/92>  gala, an extraordinary evening in 
    d.. which some of America?s leading artists, scholars, and public figures celebrate the role of contemporary poetry in American culture. Last year, our special guest readers included Meryl Streep, Liam Neeson, Tony Kushner, and Dan Rather. 

  Upcoming events include a reading <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3909>  on November 17 by the luminaries of the Academy's Board of Chancellors; a late-October celebration of W.H. Auden <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/4096> ; and the always popular Academy Awards Ceremony <http://www.poets.org/viewevent.php/prmEventID/3907> , featuring the winners of our book awards and the Academy's $100,000 lifetime achievement award. 

  Sign up now at www.poets.org/poetrynyc to receive Poetry NYC. 

  Poetry NYC is free, and you can unsubscribe at any time. Your contact information will be used only in association with this newsletter; the Academy of American Poets will never sell your email address or give it to any third party. 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 29 14:50:40 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:50:40 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<003f01c5dcb0$8b248b70$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <006801c5dcb9$a8c41390$5db831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

PoetryNYCOh, that's the Academy of American Poets. Good for them. But there used to be another poetry NYC organization, which was what I was thinking of.

Whew, I was just about to really slam you, Mole.  Though I do believe preservative organizations like the academy (and the Metropolitan Museum of Art) do worthwhile things.

--Bob G.
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From tad at opus40.org  Sat Oct 29 17:53:34 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:53:34 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu><003f01c5dcb0$8b248b70$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<006801c5dcb9$a8c41390$5db831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <001b01c5dcd3$360aba10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

PoetryNYCSlam me?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Grumman 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 2:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC


  Oh, that's the Academy of American Poets. Good for them. But there used to be another poetry NYC organization, which was what I was thinking of.

  Whew, I was just about to really slam you, Mole.  Though I do believe preservative organizations like the academy (and the Metropolitan Museum of Art) do worthwhile things.

  --Bob G.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Oct 29 18:27:00 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:27:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <BF890A1A.154EB%grahamd@ripon.edu><003f01c5dcb0$8b248b70$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><006801c5dcb9$a8c41390$5db831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001b01c5dcd3$360aba10$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <015701c5dcd7$e1eef360$5db831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

PoetryNYC

  Slam me?

  Sure, for your High Praise of the Academy of American Poets, which I consider an Enemy of Poetry--although I acknowledge that it has SOME virtues.

  --Bob G.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 30 19:31:13 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:31:13 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] off the shelf
Message-ID: <144.50d8c42f.3096bfd1@aol.com>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1604769,00.html?gusrc=rss
Pulp, pop and poetry: Cocker's off-the-wall words are a big hit 
 
Alice O'Keeffe, arts and media correspondent
Sunday October 30, 2005
The Observer 
 
When he was the front man of Pulp, Jarvis Cocker's songs were admired for 
their humour and sharp social commentary. The literary critic DJ Taylor described 
his lyrics on the 1998 album This is Hardcore as 'one of those rare occasions 
when a pop artist transforms himself without irony into an artist proper'.
So it seems only fitting that Cocker is to make his poetry debut. A specially 
commissioned verse by the singer will be unveiled this week in Sheffield, as 
part of the Off The Shelf literary festival.
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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 30 20:19:04 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:19:04 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
Message-ID: <1db.478625a4.3096cb08@aol.com>

In a message dated 10/29/2005 5:27:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
Slam me?

Sure, for your High Praise of the Academy of American Poets, which I consider 
an Enemy of Poetry--although I acknowledge that it has SOME virtues.

--Bob G.
Bob, slamming the Tad for acknowledging the Academy
would put you in the same company as Rita Dove (a few
years ago) when she shook it to its foundations. Since
her criticism hit home they've tried to expand their leadership
eschelon and open up to more kinds of poetries. The Academy
is run by the very energetic Tree Swenson.

The quieter org is Poetry Society of America. But here's
Ferlinghetti's discursive definition of poetry, from their website...
http://www.poetrysociety.org/journal/articles/whatispoetry.html

Then there is Poets House...my personal favorite. It's more
like a club or reading room. Beautiful space in SoHo, full of
stacks of books and journals, scheduling special readings and 
panels during the year. I hear they're planning to move
to a space for arts' orgs near Battery Park...if it perpetuates
the organization, I'm in favor, but I'm sorry that I won't be
able to get off the Lexington line at Spring Street and be there.
Finnegan
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From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Oct 30 20:50:57 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:50:57 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <1db.478625a4.3096cb08@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00bf01c5ddbd$8a23b300$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  In a message dated 10/29/2005 5:27:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
      Slam me?

      Sure, for your High Praise of the Academy of American Poets, which I consider an Enemy of Poetry--although I acknowledge that it has SOME virtues.

      --Bob G.
  Bob, slamming the Tad for acknowledging the Academy
  would put you in the same company as Rita Dove (a few
  years ago) when she shook it to its foundations. Since
  her criticism hit home they've tried to expand their leadership
  eschelon and open up to more kinds of poetries. The Academy
  is run by the very energetic Tree Swenson.


  You may be right, James, but my impression is that Dove just got them to be open to more poets representing victim groups.  They certainly are no more open than they ever were to the kinds of poetry I'm always arguing for.

  The quieter org is Poetry Society of America. But here's
  Ferlinghetti's discursive definition of poetry, from their website...
  http://www.poetrysociety.org/journal/articles/whatispoetry.html


  Ferlinghetti's poem is fun but pretty up&down--and diffusion, not definition.  I don't know much about the Poetry Society of America, but suspect it's much like the academy.

  Then there is Poets House...my personal favorite. It's more
  like a club or reading room. Beautiful space in SoHo, full of
  stacks of books and journals, scheduling special readings and 
  panels during the year. I hear they're planning to move
  to a space for arts' orgs near Battery Park...if it perpetuates
  the organization, I'm in favor, but I'm sorry that I won't be
  able to get off the Lexington line at Spring Street and be there.
  Finnegan


  The idea behind Poets House is great, but they don't do much, if anything, for my segment of the poetry continuum.  They have several of my press's books, though.  I sent them free copies when I thought more of them than I now do.

  Sorry, I'm incorrigible.



  --Bob


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From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Oct 30 21:21:27 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:21:27 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 34 (2005) 
Message-ID: <20f.d163e4e.3096d9a7@aol.com>

Date:    Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:23:01 -0500
From:    "Slaughter, William" <wrs at UNF.EDU>
Subject: Notice: Mudlark

New and On View: Mudlark Flash No. 34 (2005)

Christien Gholson | The Sixth Sense

Christien Gholson's poems and stories have appeared in Hanging Loose, Blue
Mesa Review, ACM, Alaska Quarterly Review, Lilliput Review, Big Bridge,
The Sun, etc.  A book of linked prose-poems is forthcoming from Hanging
Loose Press in 2006. He lives in New Mexico.

Spread the word. Far and wide,

William Slaughter

MUDLARK
An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics
Never in and never out of print...
E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu
URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 31 03:24:41 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:24:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC
References: <1db.478625a4.3096cb08@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006301c5ddf4$8b79ef30$98af3252@ANNY>

Thank you James!

First thing after the Writer's Almanac that today _besides Halloween (another poem)_ brings My November Guest by Robert Frost - What is poetry? By Lawrence Ferlinghetti, 

a great day off from here, Anny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] PoetryNYC


  In a message dated 10/29/2005 5:27:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
      Slam me?

      Sure, for your High Praise of the Academy of American Poets, which I consider an Enemy of Poetry--although I acknowledge that it has SOME virtues.

      --Bob G.
  Bob, slamming the Tad for acknowledging the Academy
  would put you in the same company as Rita Dove (a few
  years ago) when she shook it to its foundations. Since
  her criticism hit home they've tried to expand their leadership
  eschelon and open up to more kinds of poetries. The Academy
  is run by the very energetic Tree Swenson.

  The quieter org is Poetry Society of America. But here's
  Ferlinghetti's discursive definition of poetry, from their website...
  http://www.poetrysociety.org/journal/articles/whatispoetry.html

  Then there is Poets House...my personal favorite. It's more
  like a club or reading room. Beautiful space in SoHo, full of
  stacks of books and journals, scheduling special readings and 
  panels during the year. I hear they're planning to move
  to a space for arts' orgs near Battery Park...if it perpetuates
  the organization, I'm in favor, but I'm sorry that I won't be
  able to get off the Lexington line at Spring Street and be there.
  Finnegan



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 31 08:06:19 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:06:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: 500,000 visitors
Message-ID: <20051031130619.55502.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Body Prints:
The early poems of Rochelle Nameroff

Another alternative to MS Word

If I were a Graduate Math Text


500,000 readers!

18 Debut Poets 
Who made their mark in 2005

Under Albany:
A Small Press Traffic ?Book of the Year?

Ashbery?s Traditions:
How to read at Harvard

Picking a fight (gently):
John Ashbery & Other Traditions

David Bromige at 72

New Westerns:
Bill Deemer

New Westerns:
Drummond Hadley

The New Western Poetry:
David Meltzer

Crash vs. Short Cuts:
Two ways to make the same movie

Shanna Compton
Down Spooky

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 31 14:22:18 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:22:18 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] and a walk
Message-ID: <003f01c5de50$68e894b0$76d93052@ANNY>

some wonderful colors to fill new lives, I put a couple of pictures on my blog, there are some more, maybe later on. If you click on the pic it opens up:
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/

Plus:
a link to Jason Nelson's interesting work (remember to move things around..., you'll understand what I mean, hopefully)

plus 
a link to a movie/interview to Erick Hawkins, the dancer



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Oct 31 14:42:19 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:42:19 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Steven Tobin
Message-ID: <005201c5de53$34bb7740$76d93052@ANNY>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 01:07:06 +0000
From: "[iso-8859-1] steven tobin" <steven at museumfire.com>
To: fire museum <firemuseum at care2.com>
Subject: New Release: Alan Sondheim/Ritual All 770-The Songs

hi all,

this was supposed to be officially released on the 14th of next month, but I just found out that the forced exposure update has this available as of 10/31, so no use in holding this back any longer i suppose. best laid plans etc.. do yourself a favor and order on of these, i course i like it lots if i didn't i would have spent so much $$ releasing it. below is the press release to convince you to part with some hard earned cash.

lots of things planned for the new year, including a cd of incredible music from the burmese mon people, a solo cd from james of the skaters, the long in the making south india sonic omnibus and more, but that will all have to wait until we get back from india. for now, enjoy this one.

all the best,

st

p.s. feel free to forward, of course..

Available 10/31/05, avaialble for order now at: http://www.museumfire.com/sondheim.htm

   ***************************

ALAN SONDHEIM/RITUAL ALL 770 - THE SONGS (FM 04)

First ever reissue of "The Songs", the debut recording by Alan Sondheim
& Ritual All 770, originally released on Riverboat Records (later
recordings appeared on ESP Disk). Recorded in March 1967 and included
on the legendary Nurse With Wound list of experimental recordings, on
this album Alan Sondheim played Electric Guitar, Violin, Flute, Suling,
Xylophone, Alto Saxophone, Classical Guitar, Clarinet, Shenai, Bass
Recorder, Mandolin, So-na, Hawaiian Guitar, Koto, Sopranino Recorder,
Chimta, Cor Anglais, Sitar and Bansari.

Joined by Barry Sugarman (Tabla, Dholak & Naquerra), Chris Mattheson
(Bass), Robert Poholek (Trumpet & Cornet), Ruth Ann Hutchinson (Vocals),
June Fellows (Vocals) and J.Z. (Jazz Drums); Ritual All 770 were a group
of improvisors living in Providence, Rhode Island. (Perhaps they could
be considered the sonic forebearers of the Fort Thunder scene...)
Rejecting the notion that avant garde music was solely the realm of
isolated academia, they delved fearlessly and joyously into their
music, creating a work that sounds fresh nearly 40 years later.


FROM THE LINER NOTES:

This work is a single improvised performance in which one of the
performers sings "Oratorio on the end of illusions", although, in
my libretto the words were originally "Oratorio on the end of
visions". A libretto of eight pages was prepared. The vocalists
were not told how to sing it. They could go backward or repeat
any section if they wanted to. There was no score. The only
instruction given to the instrumentalists was this: no playing
behind the koto or classical guitar. I had several rehearsals with
each of them, mostly individually. The session lasted through two
takes, this is the second. After the master was made, I added
reverberation and volume controlling; other than that, all of the
music heard here is from the live performance.


Note: This CD was mastered using the best available vinyl source.

Discography:

Cray/Turn, cdrom, 2001
Global Report, Damaged Life, Spasm cassette, 1986
Flesh, Damaged Life. Spasm cassette, 1987
Live at Starck Club 1987, Damaged Life cassette
Lips, Damaged Life cassette, 1987
The Songs, Riverboat, LP, 1967
Ritual, ESP LP, 1968
T'Other Little Tune, ESP LP, 1969
Participant on ESP samplers 1969-70


Select Bibliography:

Hole, 1994
Immobilization, Fort-Da, Atlanta, 1993
Juarez, Bruised, Digital Domain, 1993
Geography/Postmodernism/Body, 1992
Chatter Death, 1992
Textbook on Thinking, ocalocka, 1991
Poems and Stories, 1991
ETR, ocalocka, 1988
In the Third World, Tasmanian School of Art, 1982
Texts, U.C. Irvine Dept. of Art, 1978
The Structure of Reality, NSCAD, 1977
Analysis of Situation, 1972
Strata, NSCAD, 1972
Resonances, for Bykert Gallery Show, NYC, 1971
Lists, Halifax, 1971



out now! ritual all 770/
alan sondheim- the songs fm-04

fire museum records
p.o. box 591754
san francisco, ca. 94159 u.s.a.
http://www.museumfire.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
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From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 31 16:37:37 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:37:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others:  Philip Lamantia, "A Civil World"
Message-ID: <23DA5FCC-AE04-49FE-9B38-8B7D5226E561@earthlink.net>


A Civil World

     In a moment their faces will be visible.
     You shall see the women who walk in a night of offensive sun-
light that cuts through their cardboard thighs.
     As the street is cleaned by the presidents of the nation, I can
see the bowlegged men moving over to copulate with the maniacs.
     As a rose runs down an alley, a purple nugget, giving off some
blood, is suspended in air.
     The children who are ten feet tall are wet.
     Their faces are scorched, their eyes cut by glass.
     They play their games as a steeple topples, as a clown's laugh
is heard in church.
     Quietly the mothers are killing their sons; quietly the fathers
are raping their daughters.
     But the women.
     The eye wanders to a garden in the middle of the street.
     There are poets dipping their diamond-like heads in the lumin-
ous fountain. There are grandmothers playing with the delicate
toys of the chimera. There are perfumes being spilt on the garbage.
There is a drunken nun flying out of a brothel.
     The women are all colors.
     Their breasts open like flowers, their flesh spreads over the park
like a blanket. Their hair is soaked in the blood of their lovers,
those who are the mirrors of this night.
     The naked lovers! All of them, fifteen years old! One can still
see their hair growing! They come from the mountains, from the
stars even, with their handsome eyes of stone. Ah, these somnam-
bulistic lovers, with their bellies full of arrows!
     After the street has recaptured its loneliness, a precious stone
casts its light on the perambulator I am to enter. One peram-
bulator in the center of a world. A poet--far way in the moun-
tains--can be heard chanting like an ape. I wonder when he
will stop?

--Philip Lamantia

fr. *Selected Poems: 1943-1966*
[San Francisco: City Lights Books, 1967]


Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 31 21:09:51 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:09:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <23DA5FCC-AE04-49FE-9B38-8B7D5226E561@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <007a01c5de89$582a7330$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and unfortunately 
accurate picture of me at

http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments

He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl 
Kempton.

--Bob G. 




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Oct 31 21:44:00 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:44:00 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
In-Reply-To: <007a01c5de89$582a7330$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BF8C3290.155C4%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Are you on the left or the right in the photo, Bob?




on 10/31/05 8:09 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:

> Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and unfortunately
> accurate picture of me at
> 
> http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments
> 
> He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl
> Kempton.
> 
> --Bob G. 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From tad at opus40.org  Mon Oct 31 21:56:53 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:56:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <BF8C3290.155C4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <001a01c5de8f$ea93ede0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

The left, if other photos I've seen of Bob (well, I've seen one other photo) 
are any guide.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 9:44 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets


> Are you on the left or the right in the photo, Bob?
>
>
>
>
> on 10/31/05 8:09 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:
>
>> Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and 
>> unfortunately
>> accurate picture of me at
>>
>> http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments
>>
>> He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl
>> Kempton.
>>
>> --Bob G.
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Oct 31 22:15:26 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:15:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <BF8C3290.155C4%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <008101c5de92$81bd3760$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> Are you on the left or the right in the photo, Bob?

The left.