From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Nov  1 04:37:55 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 10:37:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <23DA5FCC-AE04-49FE-9B38-8B7D5226E561@earthlink.net>
	<007a01c5de89$582a7330$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <008201c5dec7$f0786f50$a8a93852@ANNY>

Very interesting and a good picture, too.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:09 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets


> Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and unfortunately 
> accurate picture of me at
>
> http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments
>
> He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl 
> Kempton.
>
> --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Tue Nov  1 06:52:50 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 06:52:50 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
Message-ID: <e3.1fa57f16.3098b112@aol.com>

 
Bob, it's a scientifically proven fact that men who are, er, follically  
challenged are simply better men than men who keep their hair pas the age of 30  
or so.
 
In a message dated 10/31/2005 10:15:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

X-INFO:  INVALID TO LINE


> Are you on the left or the right in the photo,  Bob?

The  left.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry  mailing  list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new


 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/4116ad52/attachment.html>

From mandolin at mac.com  Tue Nov  1 08:16:18 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Mike Snider)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 08:16:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
In-Reply-To: <007a01c5de89$582a7330$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <23DA5FCC-AE04-49FE-9B38-8B7D5226E561@earthlink.net>
	<007a01c5de89$582a7330$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <4889639.1130850978651.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>

 
On Monday, October 31, 2005, at 09:13PM, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:

>Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and unfortunately 
>accurate picture of me at
>
>http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments
>
>He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl 
>Kempton.
>
>--Bob G. 
>


Congratulations, Bob. Good to see hard work recognized.


-----
Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. 
http://radio.weblogs.com/0113501/ for the Sonnetarium


From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 09:46:08 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 09:46:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
In-Reply-To: <4889639.1130850978651.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>
References: <23DA5FCC-AE04-49FE-9B38-8B7D5226E561@earthlink.net>
	<007a01c5de89$582a7330$9fb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<4889639.1130850978651.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511010646k2215331u67c335d9150609d1@mail.gmail.com>

Great to read about you and your career, Bob. Congratulations on getting
some of the attention that you deserve.
 Jeff Newberry

 On 11/1/05, Mike Snider <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Monday, October 31, 2005, at 09:13PM, Bob Grumman <
> bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
> >Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and
> unfortunately
> >accurate picture of me at
> >
> >http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments
> >
> >He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl
> >Kempton.
> >
> >--Bob G.
> >
>
>
> Congratulations, Bob. Good to see hard work recognized.
>
>
> -----
> Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer.
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0113501/ for the Sonnetarium
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/213394be/attachment.html>

From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu  Tue Nov  1 04:33:29 2005
From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 03:33:29 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
In-Reply-To: <4889639.1130850978651.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF8C9289.A5AB%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

On 11/1/05 7:16 AM, "Mike Snider" <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> On Monday, October 31, 2005, at 09:13PM, Bob Grumman
> <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> 
>> Geof Huth's latest blog entry has a flattering short bio and unfortunately
>> accurate picture of me at
>> 
>> http://dbqp.blogspot.com/2005/10/careers-in-visual-poetry.html#comments
>> 
>> He also profiles two other "names" in visual poetry, jwcurry and Karl
>> Kempton.
>> 
>> --Bob G. 
>> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, Bob. Good to see hard work recognized.
> 
> 
> -----
> Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer.
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0113501/ for the Sonnetarium
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
Mike, just got your book. I'll put mine in the mail to you today.

Paul



From hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Nov  1 12:47:54 2005
From: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk (gbemi tijani-mst)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:47:54 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] condolences-to the 1st family & All Nigerians
	S.O.1945-2005
Message-ID: <20051101174754.89835.qmail@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


30/10/05

to new-poetry at  wiz cath vt edu

subject: Condolences-To The 1st Family & All Nigerians

subtitle: STELLA OBASANJO ? A LIFE OF DONATION NOT DURATION

 by Gbemi TIJANI-MST(hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk)

Key words: state mourning, sober reflections, vanity, absence of elegies, the outlasting power of charity, epidemiology of auto-crash, enigma of death.

 

This is to globalise what the mood of Nigeria was -especially the week ending on Saturday 22nd till Sunday 30 th October via NEW POETRY online and add to the condolences being sent to Nigerian?s Head Of State/Chairman of African Union,Chief Olusegun Okikiola Aremu Obasanjo ?the author Of ?THIS ANIMAL CALLED MAN?-prison notes and NOT MY COMMAND-a  general ?s memoir of a civil war. Nigeria - Africa?s most populous country lost 118 of her timber and caliber citizens same day-including her 1st Lady! Of course there may be another 118 deaths formally recorded in hospitals and God forbid many anonymous passage too gratefully or painfully missed to the great beyond. That?s one of the realities of life. We shall all die on different days except we ?re so blessed to be raptured on one single day if the  Poet-Programmer of death ?Our Creator - transcendentally decides call us to glory that way... He?s the only definite, indefinite and should I add eternal Decision ?Maker per excellence that
 cannot be queried-except in poetry of praise or prayer by man?just one of His highly treasured creatures on earth. He knows when to click us ?Go? or otherwise not yet  He could faithfully  say Arise and Ascend to Me with Christ ? My Incarnate  with whom I have given all authorities on heaven and earth ! 

Life is actually fragile. Can we also agree or disagree that our desideratum or decisions also impact on our longevity? Sure you have a ready answer for this Shakespearean quote that when beggars die there are no comments seen


 

There?s hardly no other bereaved week in Nigerian history when both the 1st citizen who  (being the state father of all) ought to be mourning the loss of 117 passengers due to Bellview airline plane crash, already in much trepidation has to mourn the demise of his own dearly beloved half -Nigerian 1st Lady, Chief Mrs. Stella Obasanjo-who also died in Spain after a successful surgical operation. Clearly Saturday 22nd October was really a gloomy one for all Nigerians- at home and in the Diasporas. Nigerians were really bereaved. Most of the passengers who lost their lives on board were top echelons in government, hotel industry, international and professional associations were irreplaceably missed and given a mass burial on Thursday,27th October at the site of the crash at Ifo-Lisa, a location of barely 3-minute?s flight from Lagos airport where the plane took off. 

 

There has been no 1st lady-air crash victims? mass burial that involved the state and the whole of Nigerian citizens so mightily at heart like this one-week national disaster. The senate declared 3 days of mourning and Ogun and Oyo states went on vacation on Friday to participate fully in the interment of the 1st Lady at Ita-Eko, Abeokuta-home of the Head Of State & Grand Commander of The Armed Forces of Federal Republic of Nigeria. The poetic aura of the whole events? rituals and protocols of flying and lying -in -state of the only tangible corpse-1st lady?s- is difficult to write or recollect now. Helplessly - all the victims on board including the pilot have been involuntarily cremated when the plane lost control/contact with the airport and crash landed in the bush and the diesel made a mess of the rest demise. It ?s still immemorially sad because cremation is alien to most Nigerians-unique Africans who do dance with the casket during funerals ?or prior to interment celebrations
 of their departed elderly as a relation or father or mother or grandparents in so far as the passage is considered timely or worthy to them.

 

Evidently a few Nigerians have witnessed 3 centuries, that is, they saw part of the 19th,20th C and are still alive now.  A recent interviewee in one of the Nigerian Sunday newspapers made it to 105 and he?s still agile (but not kicking) more than most urban octogenarians. With all apologies to Nigerians and the human race and Coalition of World Charities ?the 1st lady had a better fate. Her demise - being a sequel to surgery was not only recoverable it miraculously brought unity among diverse politicians including those who don?t see eye ball ?to-eyeball prior to this double tragedy with her husband ?The President -on second term of office through the ticket of the ruling Peoples Democratic Party(pdp).He has been working hard against official corruption through reformative policies.The sudden loss of her wife attracted special sympathy from friends and the politically friendless.

It also reconciled the former Heads of State ?who are either co-contestants in the 2003 general election or comperes in the Nigerian Army before he handed over government in 1979 or searched for by civilians to contest as The President ?20 years after he honourably quit the state house! 

 

Six of them ?4 military, namely Generals Gowon,Buhari,Babangida,Abdulsalami ,2 civilians( SHAGARI democratically  elected-1979-83  and SHONEKAN selected as INTERIM president) turned up to console the incumbent president and chief mourner  in his Abeokuta home after the ill-fated news engulfed the whole country-north and south.  There were no elegies which is unlike African funerals- at least from what the news and television media showed partly because their passage was unnatural.  Nothing was heard of the families of Chief M.K.O.ABIOLA the acclaimed winner of the 1993 general election that was annulled by IBB.Though HIS NAME CAME ALIVE only as a memorial through the former ASERO STADIUM recently renamed MKO ABIOLA STADIUM after the latter?s death in prison in July 1998 ?a month earlier his tormentor, General Sanni Abacha,also died of cardiac arrest. 

 

Who else of note commiserated with the Obasanjos? The 1st family? The social critic and globally known playwright and poet, Nigerian-born Nobel Laureate for Literature, 1986, Wole Soyinka also attended the burial event of the 1st lady  Mrs. Stella Obasanjo.Although his last birth day was illustriously celebrated  last July at 70 beyond the trivial ?he?s a most consistent voice of the masses as well as a potent filler of the void left by the other numerous but inert political parties-whereas no party?in-power is perfect anywhere democracy is in vogue. As a poet whose literary stature is as tall and  wide as Stanley Burnshaw, he?s one of the typical academics? far before Nobel award and professor emeritus  that one can unequivocally called an unflinching watch over the soul of the nation. He comments without fear or favour and often saw the wrath or humiliation by the status quo for this altruistically benign but paradoxically thorny ?at least for those who aren?t so enlightened to
 consider his views and back up activisms. Once, an helicopter flew over his house and yet he?s never been sloth on national affairs especially where compassion or development ought to be prioritized or interiorised.

 Next to super permanent presidents and superstars ?though a professor of Literature (dramatic arts) of global repute and patronage till date he?s tacitly and simply called Soyinka or ?Kongi ? after one his theatre works that has gone beyond the shores of Africa and still mirroring the milk ?teething of democracy in Nigeria.

 
Stella Obasanjo-?A LIFE OF DONATION-NOT OF DURATION?
Life is vanity.The late 1st lady will be most remembered for her CHILD CARE TRUST - a pet project that she founded while alive has touched the lives of many helpless/disabled children that could have gone down the drains or pop ?off prematurely  into squalour without this timely charity that she also  networked with other 1st ladies at the state levels.

Thank Jesus that some of them have aesthetically grown to appreciate this kind gesture that they ?re also learning to become spiritually aware and build values beyond success and significance as amplified in their choir?s hymn and performance at the Memorial Thanksgiving ceremony that round up the sad event at the National Ecumenical Centre, Central Area, Abuja. The programme in which Pope Benedict ?s Representative and far-off sympathising choirs were also present to celebrate the life of a humanist per excellence now translated in glory- was very devotional and reflective-. It re-echoes all of the purity and poetry Our Most Holy and Majesty God would have expected us to be an embodiment askance we?re truly created in His image
Above all ,the Chief Mourner, The President, showed his maturity  in many ways. Prior to the tragic news of his wife?s death last Sunday and the 117 people that were lost in a plane crash he was at his Abeokuta home receiving condolences and messages of
 solidarity, love and deep sympathy from politicians, admirers, bureaucrats, from all walks of life world wide.

 Possibly inured of this nostalgia he returned to ASO ROCK  VILLA? fully emotionally prepared -consoled or not to visit the relations of the ill-fated plane crash ?especially top officials involved same week! I wasn?t surprised a bit such a magnanimous spirit could be painting his wife ?s sojourn on earth as one of donation and not of duration as many mortals would have wished she lived longer!

But the President is always biblical in his annotations of events like this .He had also confessed a futility of his failure to give the wife that has supported him so tenaciously what could ?ve been  a special birthday ?unfulfilled/postponed because  he was in  Jos ?s prison then. You would guess he would ascribe this as a good enough excuse ?No. I have failed but God?s promise and plan never fail?, said he in a conclusive response to the funeral round up at Abuja .He disclosed further that he and STELLA had planned to celebrate her 60th birthday at the National Ecumenical Center but God fulfilled this otherwise without her. Its me that have failed not God. He implored God to protect Nigeria, Nigerians and those bereaved all the time.

A FAMILIAR REQUIEM OF HALLELUYAH hymn rented the air sequel to temporal thanks and recognition of dignitaries and officiating ministers such Pastors Adeboye, Oritsejafor, Archbishop of the Niger,,Rev Dr Okoye and many others that have made the week long anthology of events possible.

 

A Quote post by Anny Balladinni to New Poetry recent issue is poetically enlightening;

 

        Our life is, in so far as it is worth living,

        made up in great part of  things indefinite,

 impalpable; and it is precisely because the arts 

present us these things that we-humanity-cannot

 get on without the arts. The picture that suggests

 indefinite poems, the line of verse that means 

a gallery of paintings, the modulation that suggests 

a score of metaphors and is contained in none:

 it is these things that touch us nearly that matter.

 

The sustained coverage of the events by the Federal Radio Corporation of Nigeria ( FRCN)  and other national television (NTA) media  afforded opportunities for sober reflections on life and vanity vis a vis politicians hoarding  or looting wealth  at the expense of the under-privileged class. The miscellaneous presentations pop up a hive of healings and value reappraisal. The week was typically dull and tranquil everywhere. Everybody shared the loss-

 though of course, far from the directly affected !

 

Do you think only death is enigmatic? Life, survivorship service protocols too often easily provoke decisions whose approval or obedience of them are not to be postponed or heeded otherwise except in rare cases
If beauty, a fading attribute or the quest to retain an impeccable beauty (is there anything like this?) rules our decisions partly because of others measurement of our integrity or aesthetics we might find partial explanation- not total consolation in the Thomas Merton Reflection of the  week of October 17,2005 cited below:

 

 ?The deep secrecy of my own being is often hidden from me by my own estimate of what I am.  My idea of what I am is falsified by my admiration for what I do.  And my illusions about myself are bred by contagion from the illusions of other men.  We all seek to imitate one another?s imagined greatness.??

Is it that we?re already in perilous times or that this chain of auto ?crash is just coincidental? Sequel to Stella?s   sojourn (1945-2005) - Dr.Seun Ladoja and another 6 -member state crew of Oyo state ?s Governor,Senator R.A. Ladoja ?also finished their sojourn  in an auto crash on Lagos ?Ibadan express way while on active duty and proxy mourning. This is clearly prematurely at least by a mortal view and their chief mourners/families, employers-Oyo state Government/Hospital Management Board,Association of Medical and Dental Officers of Oyo state(AMDO).

Maybe not by their Creator-who poetically knows what He designs our span here on earth
?

We submit for whatever literacy in daily holy poetry ?selfless prayer inclusive-that will invoke God? mercies on us all and introspection in ourselves too especially our bundle of vanity.

 

A bible -cd poet asks


"How oft do they with golden pinions cleave 

 The flitting skies, like flying pursuivant 

  Against foul fiends to aid us militant!" 

  

To what dignity are the chosen elevated 

when the brilliant courtiers of heaven 

become their willing servitors! 

Into what communion are we raised 

since we have intercourse with spotless celestials!

How well are we defended since all the twenty-

thousand chariots of God are armed for our deliverance!

To whom do we owe all this? 

I hope and believe we can all embrace poetic goodness and by this we can be come budding  or worthy leaders in whatever we?re inclined or invited to serve democracy

Let the Lord-

The Bright Morning Star be for ever endeared to us

And let?s be bold to do His word

And may He enable us to act His goodness


Between ourselves as peers

And the needy as bounding


Herein lies an imperishable treasury

Creditable here and the next world

 

COMMENTS From Gbemi TIJANI-MST,

30/10/2005 thru1nov2005

Nigeria.

 


		
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/9028fdca/attachment.html>

From tad at opus40.org  Tue Nov  1 13:36:12 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 13:36:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize
Message-ID: <001101c5df13$23300750$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

A book of poems exploring New York City's poor, homeless, and disenfranchised has been named the year's most outstanding collection of poetry.
Anne Winters's book, The Displaced of Capital, won the Lenore Marshall Prize from the Academy of American Poets and The Nation magazine, the Academy announced on Tuesday. The Marshall prize is an annual award of $25,000 for the best book of poetry published in the United States during the previous year.





Tad Richards
www.opus40.org
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/ea0af104/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Nov  1 15:12:06 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:12:06 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize
References: <001101c5df13$23300750$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <028b01c5df20$8823eb10$a8a93852@ANNY>


Compliments to the judges. I just gave my kids something on the homeless to read, since I am the teacher they all showed great humanity and compassion, maybe something might stick one day.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOldMole 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:36 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize


  A book of poems exploring New York City's poor, homeless, and disenfranchised has been named the year's most outstanding collection of poetry. 
  Anne Winters's book, The Displaced of Capital, won the Lenore Marshall Prize from the Academy of American Poets and The Nation magazine, the Academy announced on Tuesday. The Marshall prize is an annual award of $25,000 for the best book of poetry published in the United States during the previous year.





  Tad Richards
  www.opus40.org
  http://opusforty.blogspot.com/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/8bc6a3d4/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov  1 15:20:36 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 15:20:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <e3.1fa57f16.3098b112@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c5df21$b8a20d70$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Bob, it's a scientifically proven fact that men who are, er, follically challenged are simply better men than men who keep their hair pas the age of 30 or so.

No argument from me on that, Al.

--Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/bf16e9f0/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Nov  1 15:22:21 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:22:21 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser's choices
Message-ID: <02a201c5df21$f71747a0$a8a93852@ANNY>

In My Mother's House

every wall 
stood at attention 
even the air knew 
when to hold its breath 
the polished floors 
looked up 
defying heel marks 
the plastic slipcovers 
crinkled in discomfort 

in my mother's house 
the window shades 
flapped 
against the glare 
of the world 
the laughter 
crawled like roaches 
back into the cracks 

even the humans sat--
cardboard cut-outs 
around the formica 
kitchen table 
and with silver knives 
sliced and swallowed 
their words 

Reprinted from "Poet Lore," Vol 99, No. 1/2 by permission of the author. Copyright (c) 2005 by Gloria g. Murray, whose latest book of poetry is "Five A.M. Anxiety." 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/bfff6e4c/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov  1 17:50:00 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:50:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <e3.1fa57f16.3098b112@aol.com>
	<003b01c5df21$b8a20d70$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <009c01c5df36$98118440$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Thanks for the kind words about the profile of me to Anny, Mike and Jeff, by the way.  Geof is always doing nice things like that for me.  Now to go make a poem about the homeless so the American Academy of Poets will, too.

--Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/dc2fd47f/attachment.html>

From tad at opus40.org  Tue Nov  1 18:18:50 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 18:18:50 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
Message-ID: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

A poem by your old pal, in the November Snakeskin, online. http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/ -- click "November Issue."


Tad Richards
www.opus40.org
http://opusforty.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/5926504c/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov  1 18:21:18 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 18:21:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
References: <e3.1fa57f16.3098b112@aol.com><003b01c5df21$b8a20d70$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009c01c5df36$98118440$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00d001c5df3a$f71e1c10$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Oh, and I, too, received my copy of Mike's collection of sonnets.  I've only had time to read one of them, but liked it quite a bit.  It was about his stay as a child in a Catholic hospital.

--Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/da1a0f89/attachment.html>

From mandolin at mac.com  Tue Nov  1 20:54:08 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 20:54:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
In-Reply-To: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
References: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <B8F6BCA8-F1C9-44C1-8980-2ED1D6B74544@mac.com>


On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:18 PM, TheOldMole wrote:

> A poem by your old pal, in the November Snakeskin, online. http:// 
> homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/ -- click "November Issue."



Congratulations, Tad! And a fitting poem for hte Day of the Dead.



From mandolin at mac.com  Tue Nov  1 20:56:00 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 20:56:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
In-Reply-To: <00d001c5df3a$f71e1c10$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <e3.1fa57f16.3098b112@aol.com>
	<003b01c5df21$b8a20d70$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<009c01c5df36$98118440$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<00d001c5df3a$f71e1c10$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <1B32C755-7884-4DAC-8FEF-77D0F5C2A1F8@mac.com>


On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:21 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:

> Oh, and I, too, received my copy of Mike's collection of sonnets.   
> I've only had time to read one of them, but liked it quite a bit.   
> It was about his stay as a child in a Catholic hospital.
>
> --Bob G.
> ____________________________________

Thank you, Bob. I often tell folks (especially my family) that there  
are a lot of lies in my poems, but that one happens to be entrely  
true. Not exactly a gift though.



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 21:03:27 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:03:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
In-Reply-To: <B8F6BCA8-F1C9-44C1-8980-2ED1D6B74544@mac.com>
References: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<B8F6BCA8-F1C9-44C1-8980-2ED1D6B74544@mac.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511011803u709812b1wc57b3af89f37ef0d@mail.gmail.com>

Well done, Old Mole!
 Jeff Newberry

 On 11/1/05, Michael Snider <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:18 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>
> > A poem by your old pal, in the November Snakeskin, online. http://
> > homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/<http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/>-- click "November Issue."
>
>
>
> Congratulations, Tad! And a fitting poem for hte Day of the Dead.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/140faf02/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 21:04:28 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:04:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Profile of Me and 2 Other Visual Poets
In-Reply-To: <003b01c5df21$b8a20d70$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <e3.1fa57f16.3098b112@aol.com>
	<003b01c5df21$b8a20d70$89b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511011804o48a38801j70f66c453e61f3@mail.gmail.com>

Nor from me. I shaved my head this summer. I'll never go back!
 But, to be fair, I was already losing my hair . . .

Jeff Newberry

 On 11/1/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
> Bob, it's a scientifically proven fact that men who are, er, follically
> challenged are simply better men than men who keep their hair pas the age of
> 30 or so.
>  No argument from me on that, Al.
>  --Bob G.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/533d47e7/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Nov  1 23:08:28 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:08:28 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize
In-Reply-To: <001101c5df13$23300750$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <BF8D97DB.1563C%grahamd@ripon.edu>

The first poem from Anne Winters's book--


The Mill-Race



Four-fifty. The palings of Trinity Church
Burying Ground, a few inches above the earth,
are sunk in green light. The low stones
like pale books knocked sideways. The bus so close to the curb
that brush-drops of ebony paint stand out wetly, the sunlight
seethes with vibrations, the sidewalks
on Whitehall shudder with subterranean tremors. Overhead, faint flickers

crackle down the window-paths: limpid telegraphy of the
late afternoon July thunderstorm unfurling over Manhattan.
Its set and luminous velocity, long stalks of stormlight, and then the first
drops
strike their light civic stripes on the pavement.
Between the palings, oat-panicles sift a few bright
grains to the stonecourse. Above it, at shoulder height
a side door is flung open, fire-exits; streaming from lobbies

come girls and women, white girls in shadowy-striped rayon skirts, plastic
ear-hoops,
black girls in gauzy-toned nylons, ripples of cornrows and plaits,
one girl with shocked-back ash hair, lightened eyebrows;
one face from Easter Island, mauve and granitic;
thigh on thigh, waist by waist; the elbow's curlicue and the fingers';
elbow-work, heel-work,
are suddenly absorbed in the corduroyed black rubber stairs of the bus.
Humid
sighs, settlings, each face tilts up to the windows'
shadowless yards of mercuric green plate glass. An
interspace then, like the slowing of some rural
water-mill, a creaking and dipping pause
of black-splintered paddles, the irregularly
dappled off-lighting ? bottle-green ? the lucid slim sluice
falling back in a stream from the plank edge. It won't take us
altogether, we say, the mill-race ? it won't churn us up altogether. We'll
keep
a glib stretch of leisure water, like our self?s self ? to reflect the sky.
But we won't (says the bus rider now to herself). Nothing's
left over, really, from labor. They've taken it all for the mill-race.

In close-ups now, you can see it in every face,
despite the roped rain light pouring down the bus-windows ?
it's the strain of gravity itself, of life hours cut off and offered
to the voice that says "Give me this day your
life, that is LABOR, and I'll give you back
one day, then another. For mine are the terms."
It's gravity, spilling in capillaries, cheek-tissue trembling,
despite the make-up, the monograms, the mass-market designer scarves,

the army of signs disowning the workplace and longing for night . . .
But even as the rain slackens, labor
lengthens itself along Broadway. The night signs
come on, that wit has set up to draw money: O'DONNELL'S,
BEIRUT CAFE, YONAH'S KNISH . . . People dart out from awnings.
The old man at the kiosk starts his late shift, whipping off rainstreaked
lucite sheets from his stacks of late-market newsprint.

If there is leisure, bus-riders, it's not for you,
not between here and uptown or here and the Bronx.
Outside Marine Midland, the black sea of unmarked corporate hire-cars
waits for the belated office lights, the long rainy run to the exurbs;
and perhaps on a converted barn roof in Connecticut
leisure may silver the shingles, somewhere the densely packed
labor-mines that run a half mile down from the sky
to the Battery rise, metamorphic, in water-gardens,
lichened windows where the lamp lights Thucydides or Gibbon.

It's not a water-mill really, labor. It's like the nocturnal
paper-mill pulverizing, crushing each fiber of rag into atoms,
or the workhouse tread-mill, smooth-lipped, that wore down a London of
doxies and sharps,
or the flour-mill, fa?rique, that raised the cathedrals and wore out hosts
of dust-demons,
but it's mostly the miller's curse-gift, forgotten of God yet still
grinding, the salt-
mill, that makes the sea, salt.


Anne Winters
The Displaced of Capital
The University of Chicago Press



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051101/59c6966b/attachment.html>

From tad at opus40.org  Wed Nov  2 00:22:59 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 00:22:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize
References: <BF8D97DB.1563C%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <004401c5df6d$7d9e1ab0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

Anne Winters Snags PrizeThat's not bad at all.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:08 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize


  The first poem from Anne Winters's book--


  The Mill-Race



  Four-fifty. The palings of Trinity Church
  Burying Ground, a few inches above the earth,
  are sunk in green light. The low stones
  like pale books knocked sideways. The bus so close to the curb
  that brush-drops of ebony paint stand out wetly, the sunlight
  seethes with vibrations, the sidewalks
  on Whitehall shudder with subterranean tremors. Overhead, faint flickers

  crackle down the window-paths: limpid telegraphy of the
  late afternoon July thunderstorm unfurling over Manhattan.
  Its set and luminous velocity, long stalks of stormlight, and then the first drops
  strike their light civic stripes on the pavement.
  Between the palings, oat-panicles sift a few bright
  grains to the stonecourse. Above it, at shoulder height
  a side door is flung open, fire-exits; streaming from lobbies

  come girls and women, white girls in shadowy-striped rayon skirts, plastic ear-hoops,
  black girls in gauzy-toned nylons, ripples of cornrows and plaits, 
  one girl with shocked-back ash hair, lightened eyebrows;
  one face from Easter Island, mauve and granitic;
  thigh on thigh, waist by waist; the elbow's curlicue and the fingers'; elbow-work, heel-work,
  are suddenly absorbed in the corduroyed black rubber stairs of the bus. Humid
  sighs, settlings, each face tilts up to the windows'
  shadowless yards of mercuric green plate glass. An
  interspace then, like the slowing of some rural
  water-mill, a creaking and dipping pause
  of black-splintered paddles, the irregularly
  dappled off-lighting < bottle-green < the lucid slim sluice
  falling back in a stream from the plank edge. It won't take us
  altogether, we say, the mill-race < it won't churn us up altogether. We'll keep
  a glib stretch of leisure water, like our self?s self < to reflect the sky.
  But we won't (says the bus rider now to herself). Nothing's
  left over, really, from labor. They've taken it all for the mill-race.

  In close-ups now, you can see it in every face,
  despite the roped rain light pouring down the bus-windows <
  it's the strain of gravity itself, of life hours cut off and offered
  to the voice that says "Give me this day your
  life, that is LABOR, and I'll give you back
  one day, then another. For mine are the terms."
  It's gravity, spilling in capillaries, cheek-tissue trembling,
  despite the make-up, the monograms, the mass-market designer scarves,

  the army of signs disowning the workplace and longing for night . . .
  But even as the rain slackens, labor
  lengthens itself along Broadway. The night signs
  come on, that wit has set up to draw money: O'DONNELL'S,
  BEIRUT CAFE, YONAH'S KNISH . . . People dart out from awnings.
  The old man at the kiosk starts his late shift, whipping off rainstreaked
  lucite sheets from his stacks of late-market newsprint.

  If there is leisure, bus-riders, it's not for you,
  not between here and uptown or here and the Bronx.
  Outside Marine Midland, the black sea of unmarked corporate hire-cars
  waits for the belated office lights, the long rainy run to the exurbs;
  and perhaps on a converted barn roof in Connecticut
  leisure may silver the shingles, somewhere the densely packed
  labor-mines that run a half mile down from the sky
  to the Battery rise, metamorphic, in water-gardens,
  lichened windows where the lamp lights Thucydides or Gibbon.

  It's not a water-mill really, labor. It's like the nocturnal
  paper-mill pulverizing, crushing each fiber of rag into atoms,
  or the workhouse tread-mill, smooth-lipped, that wore down a London of doxies and sharps,
  or the flour-mill, fa?rique, that raised the cathedrals and wore out hosts of dust-demons,
  but it's mostly the miller's curse-gift, forgotten of God yet still grinding, the salt-
  mill, that makes the sea, salt.


  Anne Winters
  The Displaced of Capital
  The University of Chicago Press



  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051102/555a3295/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov  2 04:39:17 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:39:17 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
References: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
	<B8F6BCA8-F1C9-44C1-8980-2ED1D6B74544@mac.com>
Message-ID: <013101c5df91$4b41c2a0$12ad3452@ANNY>

I needed the dictionary to get through it...! 
_wow I'm wondering_
all...true?


From: "Michael Snider" <mandolin at mac.com>
&amp;Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back


> 
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:18 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
> 
>> A poem by your old pal, in the November Snakeskin, online. http:// 
>> homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/ -- click "November Issue."
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations, Tad! And a fitting poem for hte Day of the Dead.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov  2 04:45:37 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:45:37 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize
References: <BF8D97DB.1563C%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<004401c5df6d$7d9e1ab0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <015801c5df92$2dd8f660$12ad3452@ANNY>

Anne Winters Snags PrizeA lot of good work
  From: TheOldMole 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:22 AM


  That's not bad at all.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: David Graham 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp 
    Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:08 PM
    Subject: [New-Poetry] Anne Winters Snags Prize


    The first poem from Anne Winters's book--


    The Mill-Race



    Four-fifty. The palings of Trinity Church
    Burying Ground, a few inches above the earth,
    are sunk in green light. The low stones
    like pale books knocked sideways. The bus so close to the curb
    that brush-drops of ebony paint stand out wetly, the sunlight
    seethes with vibrations, the sidewalks
    on Whitehall shudder with subterranean tremors. Overhead, faint flickers

    crackle down the window-paths: limpid telegraphy of the
    late afternoon July thunderstorm unfurling over Manhattan.
    Its set and luminous velocity, long stalks of stormlight, and then the first drops
    strike their light civic stripes on the pavement.
    Between the palings, oat-panicles sift a few bright
    grains to the stonecourse. Above it, at shoulder height
    a side door is flung open, fire-exits; streaming from lobbies

    come girls and women, white girls in shadowy-striped rayon skirts, plastic ear-hoops,
    black girls in gauzy-toned nylons, ripples of cornrows and plaits, 
    one girl with shocked-back ash hair, lightened eyebrows;
    one face from Easter Island, mauve and granitic;
    thigh on thigh, waist by waist; the elbow's curlicue and the fingers'; elbow-work, heel-work,
    are suddenly absorbed in the corduroyed black rubber stairs of the bus. Humid
    sighs, settlings, each face tilts up to the windows'
    shadowless yards of mercuric green plate glass. An
    interspace then, like the slowing of some rural
    water-mill, a creaking and dipping pause
    of black-splintered paddles, the irregularly
    dappled off-lighting < bottle-green < the lucid slim sluice
    falling back in a stream from the plank edge. It won't take us
    altogether, we say, the mill-race < it won't churn us up altogether. We'll keep
    a glib stretch of leisure water, like our self?s self < to reflect the sky.
    But we won't (says the bus rider now to herself). Nothing's
    left over, really, from labor. They've taken it all for the mill-race.

    In close-ups now, you can see it in every face,
    despite the roped rain light pouring down the bus-windows <
    it's the strain of gravity itself, of life hours cut off and offered
    to the voice that says "Give me this day your
    life, that is LABOR, and I'll give you back
    one day, then another. For mine are the terms."
    It's gravity, spilling in capillaries, cheek-tissue trembling,
    despite the make-up, the monograms, the mass-market designer scarves,

    the army of signs disowning the workplace and longing for night . . .
    But even as the rain slackens, labor
    lengthens itself along Broadway. The night signs
    come on, that wit has set up to draw money: O'DONNELL'S,
    BEIRUT CAFE, YONAH'S KNISH . . . People dart out from awnings.
    The old man at the kiosk starts his late shift, whipping off rainstreaked
    lucite sheets from his stacks of late-market newsprint.

    If there is leisure, bus-riders, it's not for you,
    not between here and uptown or here and the Bronx.
    Outside Marine Midland, the black sea of unmarked corporate hire-cars
    waits for the belated office lights, the long rainy run to the exurbs;
    and perhaps on a converted barn roof in Connecticut
    leisure may silver the shingles, somewhere the densely packed
    labor-mines that run a half mile down from the sky
    to the Battery rise, metamorphic, in water-gardens,
    lichened windows where the lamp lights Thucydides or Gibbon.

    It's not a water-mill really, labor. It's like the nocturnal
    paper-mill pulverizing, crushing each fiber of rag into atoms,
    or the workhouse tread-mill, smooth-lipped, that wore down a London of doxies and sharps,
    or the flour-mill, fa?rique, that raised the cathedrals and wore out hosts of dust-demons,
    but it's mostly the miller's curse-gift, forgotten of God yet still grinding, the salt-
    mill, that makes the sea, salt.


    Anne Winters
    The Displaced of Capital
    The University of Chicago Press



    ====================================================
    David Graham
    grahamd at ripon.edu
    Home Page:
    http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
    Poetry Library:
    http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
    ====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051102/a7254573/attachment.html>

From tad at opus40.org  Wed Nov  2 08:36:05 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:36:05 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
References: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><B8F6BCA8-F1C9-44C1-8980-2ED1D6B74544@mac.com>
	<013101c5df91$4b41c2a0$12ad3452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003401c5dfb2$60148f20$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I never write anything true. I make up stories. "My Father Has Lunch With 
Chou En-Lai" is the exception.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back


>I needed the dictionary to get through it...! _wow I'm wondering_
> all...true?
>
>
> From: "Michael Snider" <mandolin at mac.com>
> &amp;Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
>
>
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:18 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>>
>>> A poem by your old pal, in the November Snakeskin, online. http:// 
>>> homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/ -- click "November Issue."
>>
>>
>>
>> Congratulations, Tad! And a fitting poem for hte Day of the Dead.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov  2 10:49:06 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:49:06 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
References: <004601c5df3a$9e4cfcf0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress><B8F6BCA8-F1C9-44C1-8980-2ED1D6B74544@mac.com><013101c5df91$4b41c2a0$12ad3452@ANNY>
	<003401c5dfb2$60148f20$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>
Message-ID: <006901c5dfc4$f4fa5e00$b3ab3452@ANNY>


And for those who wish to read the poem by our Mole, here it is, and soon it will be somewhere also in Italian, what a long trip:

http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=313

From: "TheOldMole" <tad at opus40.org>
&amp;Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back


>I never write anything true. I make up stories. "My Father Has Lunch With 
> Chou En-Lai" is the exception.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Anny Ballardini" <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views" 
> <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
> 
> 
>>I needed the dictionary to get through it...! _wow I'm wondering_
>> all...true?
>>
>>
>> From: "Michael Snider" <mandolin at mac.com>
>> &amp;Views" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] The Mole Strikes Back
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:18 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
>>>
>>>> A poem by your old pal, in the November Snakeskin, online. http:// 
>>>> homepages.nildram.co.uk/~simmers/ -- click "November Issue."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Congratulations, Tad! And a fitting poem for hte Day of the Dead.
>>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051102/0fa7d932/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Nov  2 17:30:59 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:30:59 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Defects from Granite to Green Mountain state
Message-ID: <7f.6a61e53f.309a9823@aol.com>

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2005110101040

New Hampshire poet laureate resigns after moving to Vermont    
By Zach Swiss 
Published on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 
 
Cynthia Huntington did not resign last week amid threats of indictment or 
political scandal. Rather, the New Hampshire poet laureate just changed her 
address.
 
Huntington, a Dartmouth English professor and former Hanover resident, said 
she believed that by moving to the town of Thetford, Vt., she was required to 
step down from her New Hampshire post.
 
Huntington disagrees with articles from local papers, including the Concord 
Monitor, which wrote that there is no requirement that the poet laureate reside 
in New Hampshire.
 
"I was informed otherwise," Huntington said. "I do believe that the New 
Hampshire poet laureate is supposed to live in New Hampshire. I believe that the 
other news article was inaccurate."
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051102/cadda880/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Nov  2 17:41:21 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:41:21 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetry workshop on guardian site
Message-ID: <22d.34eb0c.309a9a91@aol.com>

http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetryworkshop/0,15165,1314872,00.html



 http://books.guardian.co.uk/poetryworkshop/story/0,15167,1606789,00.html
Other lives 
John Burnside is intrigued by the wide-ranging and oblique ways in which 
mythic material is brought into play in the poems inspired by his 'making myths' 
exercise 
 
Wednesday November 2, 2005 
 

John Burnside: 'I was intrigued and surprised'
  
I was intrigued and surprised by the variety of responses to this workshop. I 
had imagined that the majority of the poems would rely mainly on image, as 
this has been the usual way of drawing myth, origin stories and other such 
material into a contemporary western lyrical mode. I wasn't prepared for the 
wide-ranging uses of (semi-) narrative that I encountered, or for the oblique ways 
in which mythic material was brought into play in some instances.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051102/40ada996/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Thu Nov  3 13:45:11 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:45:11 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Essential Shakespeare Live  
Message-ID: <54.500dc0fc.309bb4b7@aol.com>

http://www.bl.uk/acatalog/Catalogue_ISBN_0712305246_338.html#aISBN_20071230524
6
The Essential Shakespeare Live 

The British Library and the Royal Shakespeare Company join forces to publish 
this remarkable treasury of live Shakespeare recordings. Selected from an 
extensive collection of recordings made by the British Library Sound Archive, this 
set offers scenes and speeches from some of the most celebrated Shakespeare 
productions in the history of the Royal Shakespeare Company. Hear legendary 
actors from Laurence Olivier as Coriolanus in 1959 to Judi Dench in All?s Well 
that Ends Well in 2002. All the recordings are being published for the first 
time.

Two CDs with booklet including the texts of the extracts from the plays. 
Running time approx. 137 minutes.

Publisher: British Library Publishing

ISBN: 0712305246; audio CD, 2005.  


Price:   ?15.95 (including VAT at 17.5%) 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051103/cf21114b/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Nov  4 07:34:31 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:34:31 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Boye + Peverett + me 
Message-ID: <003901c5e13c$1bb4faa0$d17c3652@ANNY>



?
*
A tri-lingual poem, originally written in Swedish by Karin Boye, translated into English by Michael Peverett and finally translated by me into Italian, featured on Michael Peverett's Blog
http://michaelpeverett.blogspot.com/2005/11/ripe-like-fruit.html


.
Thank you Michael_

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051104/037fb122/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 09:51:28 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:51:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511040651nf6de122u3832f30be750a6af@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular basis.
Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?
 I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's "Sturgeon's
Law" (http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).
 Others?
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051104/ba911275/attachment.html>

From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  4 10:55:48 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:55:48 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
Message-ID: <200511041531.jA4FVJNf230864@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>

Hey Jeff---
             I can't really answer your question, coz I only browse at blogs
here and there
             when time permits and/or they send a note about a new entry
that seems to
             address something I've been obsessing about, but it raises
another question for me.
             Is a blog a "poetry blog" just because it's written by someone
who is known as a poet?
             Or even if it writes about poetry?
              I know some blogs, like Stephen Vincent's, put a lot of his
own poetry up there,
              but others (like Gary Sullivan, Nick Piombino, Gabe Gudding,
even Silliman)
              seem alot of times to be of more "general interest"--or more
"personal"--
              Sometimes personal day-to-day stuff (like a day book, which
itself I suppose
              could be called a "poetic form") and sometimes cultural
criticism. I know I tend
              to find Silliman more interesting, and less dogmatic, when
he's writing about
              culture (movies, music, philosophy, etc) or politics than when
he writes about      poetry---though sometimes there's great poetry
appreciations of lesser known older folks there....

Anyway, just some thoughts---was thinking about the relationship between
blogs and
            "poetry blogs" and the idea of "sports talk radio."
             As a fledgling blogger myself----not really "down with the
form" yet---I've been
             tending to use it to get some rough versions of prose out there
(sometimes my     "entries" are very long; also I'm not adept enough at the
computer to make them aesthetically pleasing with graphics and photos, etc)
that I may revise and gather later. But then it kind of takes on a life of
its own, I guess.              A lot to think about here..... Chris

----------
From: Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
To: NewPoetry <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2005, 6:51 AM


Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular basis.
Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?

I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's "Sturgeon's
Law" (http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).

Others?

Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051104/fb32c03e/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 10:56:48 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 10:56:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
In-Reply-To: <200511041531.jA4FVJNf230864@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>
References: <200511041531.jA4FVJNf230864@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511040756i434e717cw66be8c67b94b288@mail.gmail.com>

Good points, Chris.
 I suppose "poetry blog" is a misleading term. I read a lot of them because,
qutie frankly, I waste a heck of a lot of time online--time when I usually
should be writing.
 I hardly ever post my own poetry on my blog, though I will sometimes. I
post poetry-related news items and items about religion and spirituality, as
well, since these are the things I think about most often. Sometimes, I link
to other posts that I find interesting. I hardly ever write about my life,
though. Not sure why . . .
 Good points about talk radio, as well. I listen to a lot of talk radio
during baseball season. A Braves fan, I listen to the pregame shows. A lot
of the time, Skip Carey and whoever is with him just cut up and reminice
about the history of baseball and such. I actually enjoy when they get off
subject more than I enjoy their talking about baseball. The best stories
come then, as when Don Sutton talked about once calling "wild pitch" on the
air when what had actually happened was that the cast on one of the
catcher's fingers had shot off after the catcher caught a really fast pitch.
The cast careened behind the batter's box and umpire and Sutton, having seen
only a flying white thing, yelled "wild pitch." At least I think it was Don
Sutton . . .
 Anyway--I enjoy blogs, as well, when I get to see a glimpse of the person,
not the agenda--if that makes any sense. I read Bob's blog on a regular
basis, and while I enjoy his posts about poetry, I like it best when he's
dealing with his own thought processes, trying to coin a new word, for
example. To me, this is most interesting.
 Yours,
 Jeff Newberry

 On 11/4/05, Chris Stroffolino <cstroffo at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Jeff---
> I can't really answer your question, coz I only browse at blogs here and
> there
> when time permits and/or they send a note about a new entry that seems to
> address something I've been obsessing about, but it raises another
> question for me.
> Is a blog a "poetry blog" just because it's written by someone who is
> known as a poet?
> Or even if it writes about poetry?
> I know some blogs, like Stephen Vincent's, put a lot of his own poetry up
> there,
> but others (like Gary Sullivan, Nick Piombino, Gabe Gudding, even
> Silliman)
> seem alot of times to be of more "general interest"--or more "personal"--
> Sometimes personal day-to-day stuff (like a day book, which itself I
> suppose
> could be called a "poetic form") and sometimes cultural criticism. I know
> I tend
> to find Silliman more interesting, and less dogmatic, when he's writing
> about
> culture (movies, music, philosophy, etc) or politics than when he writes
> about poetry---though sometimes there's great poetry appreciations of lesser
> known older folks there....
>
> Anyway, just some thoughts---was thinking about the relationship between
> blogs and
> "poetry blogs" and the idea of "sports talk radio."
> As a fledgling blogger myself----not really "down with the form"
> yet---I've been
> tending to use it to get some rough versions of prose out there (sometimes
> my "entries" are very long; also I'm not adept enough at the computer to
> make them aesthetically pleasing with graphics and photos, etc) that I may
> revise and gather later. But then it kind of takes on a life of its own, I
> guess. A lot to think about here..... Chris
>
> ----------
> From: Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
> To: NewPoetry <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
> Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2005, 6:51 AM
>
>
>  Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular
> basis. Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?
>
> I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's
> "Sturgeon's Law" (*http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html*).
>
> Others?
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> --
> "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
> --Miguel de Unamuno
>
> Blog: *http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
> *
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> *New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> *
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051104/05bf8cce/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Fri Nov  4 11:57:44 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:57:44 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ashbery profile
Message-ID: <BF90EF28.28E2%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A long profile in the current issue of *The New Yorker* on John Ashbery &
his writing methods.

Not available online, alas.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Nov  4 11:59:57 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:59:57 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
References: <200511041531.jA4FVJNf230864@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>
	<731bb17a0511040756i434e717cw66be8c67b94b288@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00d601c5e161$2fb58630$d17c3652@ANNY>

Hi Jeff,

It is very difficult to keep up with everything, and I sometimes feel that it is all going to overwhelm me. There are several blogs I visit and many more I would like to visit more on a regular basis. Besides the ones you mentioned, a _pure_ poetry blog is the one of Mair?ad Byrne, quite a lot of poetry can be found also on Henry Gould's hg poetics blog, together with thoughts and considerations. Chris Murray's texfiles feature poets on a regular basis, Halvard Johnson was featured some time ago and a longer time ago, I had the privilege. Eileen Tabios with her La Chatelaine Poetics is a true whirlwind or force of nature as Tom Beckett defined her, to be visited are both blogs; Mark Young has usually interesting work exhibited with his two blogs, one entirely dedicated to Magritte. And many more.

I am listening to kqed public radio (Bay Area, San Francisco), a great radio, I get all the news I am interested in, good interviews.
Hope this partly answers your question.
Take care, Anny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views 
  Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs


  Good points, Chris.

  I suppose "poetry blog" is a misleading term.  I read a lot of them because, qutie frankly, I waste a heck of a lot of time online--time when I usually should be writing.

  I hardly ever post my own poetry on my blog, though I will sometimes.  I post poetry-related news items and items about religion and spirituality, as well, since these are the things I think about most often.  Sometimes, I link to other posts that I find interesting.  I hardly ever write about my life, though.  Not sure why . . . 

  Good points about talk radio, as well.  I listen to a lot of talk radio during baseball season.  A Braves fan, I listen to the pregame shows.  A lot of the time, Skip Carey and whoever is with him just cut up and reminice about the history of baseball and such.  I actually enjoy when they get off subject more than I enjoy their talking about baseball.  The best stories come then, as when Don Sutton talked about once calling "wild pitch" on the air when what had actually happened was that the cast on one of the catcher's fingers had shot off after the catcher caught a really fast pitch.  The cast careened behind the batter's box and umpire and Sutton, having seen only a flying white thing, yelled "wild pitch."  At least I think it was Don Sutton . . . 

  Anyway--I enjoy blogs, as well, when I get to see a glimpse of the person, not the agenda--if that makes any sense.  I read Bob's blog on a regular basis, and while I enjoy his posts about poetry, I like it best when he's dealing with his own thought processes, trying to coin a new word, for example.  To me, this is most interesting. 

  Yours,

  Jeff Newberry

   
  On 11/4/05, Chris Stroffolino <cstroffo at earthlink.net> wrote: 
    Hey Jeff---
                 I can't really answer your question, coz I only browse at blogs here and there 
                 when time permits and/or they send a note about a new entry that seems to
                 address something I've been obsessing about, but it raises another question for me.
                 Is a blog a "poetry blog" just because it's written by someone who is known as a poet? 
                 Or even if it writes about poetry? 
                  I know some blogs, like Stephen Vincent's, put a lot of his own poetry up there,
                  but others (like Gary Sullivan, Nick Piombino, Gabe Gudding, even Silliman) 
                  seem alot of times to be of more "general interest"--or more "personal"--
                  Sometimes personal day-to-day stuff (like a day book, which itself I suppose
                  could be called a "poetic form") and sometimes cultural criticism. I know I tend 
                  to find Silliman more interesting, and less dogmatic, when he's writing about
                  culture (movies, music, philosophy, etc) or politics than when he writes about      poetry---though sometimes there's great poetry appreciations of lesser known older folks there.... 

    Anyway, just some thoughts---was thinking about the relationship between blogs and
                "poetry blogs" and the idea of "sports talk radio."
                 As a fledgling blogger myself----not really "down with the form" yet---I've been 
                 tending to use it to get some rough versions of prose out there (sometimes my     "entries" are very long; also I'm not adept enough at the computer to make them aesthetically pleasing with graphics and photos, etc) that I may revise and gather later. But then it kind of takes on a life of its own, I guess.              A lot to think about here..... Chris 

    ----------
    From: Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
    To: NewPoetry < new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
    Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
    Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2005, 6:51 AM



      Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular basis.  Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?
       
      I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's "Sturgeon's Law" ( http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).
       
      Others?
       
      Jeff Newberry

      -- 
      "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                         --Miguel de Unamuno

      Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/

       

      _______________________________________________
      New-Poetry mailing list
      New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
      http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno

  Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051104/ca26cb2a/attachment.html>

From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  4 13:02:58 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:02:58 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
Message-ID: <200511041738.jA4HcU3L094860@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net>

Sounds like a good way to approach it. C

----------
From: Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp, Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2005, 7:56 AM


Good points, Chris.

I suppose "poetry blog" is a misleading term.  I read a lot of them because,
qutie frankly, I waste a heck of a lot of time online--time when I usually
should be writing.

I hardly ever post my own poetry on my blog, though I will sometimes.  I
post poetry-related news items and items about religion and spirituality, as
well, since these are the things I think about most often.  Sometimes, I
link to other posts that I find interesting.  I hardly ever write about my
life, though.  Not sure why . . .

Good points about talk radio, as well.  I listen to a lot of talk radio
during baseball season.  A Braves fan, I listen to the pregame shows.  A lot
of the time, Skip Carey and whoever is with him just cut up and reminice
about the history of baseball and such.  I actually enjoy when they get off
subject more than I enjoy their talking about baseball.  The best stories
come then, as when Don Sutton talked about once calling "wild pitch" on the
air when what had actually happened was that the cast on one of the
catcher's fingers had shot off after the catcher caught a really fast pitch.
The cast careened behind the batter's box and umpire and Sutton, having seen
only a flying white thing, yelled "wild pitch."  At least I think it was Don
Sutton . . .

Anyway--I enjoy blogs, as well, when I get to see a glimpse of the person,
not the agenda--if that makes any sense.  I read Bob's blog on a regular
basis, and while I enjoy his posts about poetry, I like it best when he's
dealing with his own thought processes, trying to coin a new word, for
example.  To me, this is most interesting.

Yours,

Jeff Newberry


On 11/4/05, Chris Stroffolino <cstroffo at earthlink.net
<mailto:cstroffo at earthlink.net> > wrote:
Hey Jeff---
             I can't really answer your question, coz I only browse at blogs
here and there
             when time permits and/or they send a note about a new entry
that seems to
             address something I've been obsessing about, but it raises
another question for me.
             Is a blog a "poetry blog" just because it's written by someone
who is known as a poet?
             Or even if it writes about poetry?
              I know some blogs, like Stephen Vincent's, put a lot of his
own poetry up there,
              but others (like Gary Sullivan, Nick Piombino, Gabe Gudding,
even Silliman)
              seem alot of times to be of more "general interest"--or more
"personal"--
              Sometimes personal day-to-day stuff (like a day book, which
itself I suppose
              could be called a "poetic form") and sometimes cultural
criticism. I know I tend
              to find Silliman more interesting, and less dogmatic, when
he's writing about
              culture (movies, music, philosophy, etc) or politics than when
he writes about      poetry---though sometimes there's great poetry
appreciations of lesser known older folks there....

Anyway, just some thoughts---was thinking about the relationship between
blogs and
            "poetry blogs" and the idea of "sports talk radio."
             As a fledgling blogger myself----not really "down with the
form" yet---I've been
             tending to use it to get some rough versions of prose out there
(sometimes my     "entries" are very long; also I'm not adept enough at the
computer to make them aesthetically pleasing with graphics and photos, etc)
that I may revise and gather later. But then it kind of takes on a life of
its own, I guess.              A lot to think about here..... Chris

----------
From: Jeff Newberry <jeff.newberry at gmail.com
<mailto:jeff.newberry at gmail.com> >
To: NewPoetry < new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
<mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu> >
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
Date: Fri, Nov 4, 2005, 6:51 AM


Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular basis.
Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?

I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's "Sturgeon's
Law" ( http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).

Others?

Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/


_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu  <mailto:New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051104/915143f7/attachment.html>

From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Fri Nov  4 21:17:44 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 02:17:44 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Thought for the day
Message-ID: <01b601c5e1af$1c0a7160$1ce8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

"The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable hunk of rock or coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task, it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds a spot to it takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore so it eats it.
It's rather like getting tenure."

Daniel Dennett - 'Consciousness Explained'



Best

Dave
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051105/0786e6c4/attachment.html>

From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sat Nov  5 13:10:53 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:10:53 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Mapanje
References: <20051031130619.55502.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <029201c5e234$43f78980$1ce8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

If anyone's within visiting distance the African poet Jack Mapanje will be
reading at the Clepham building at De Montfort University Leicester on
Friday the 11th at 7.30 pm. Price 3.50/2.50 sterling. The reading is hosted
jointly by the Leicester Pietry Society and De Montfort University.

Cheers

Dave



From david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com  Sat Nov  5 13:18:58 2005
From: david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com (David Bircumshaw)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:18:58 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Mapanje
References: <20051031130619.55502.qmail@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<029201c5e234$43f78980$1ce8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>
Message-ID: <02b501c5e235$64163c10$1ce8ff3e@rayuv8pcloxi9v>

Sent in error

dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Bircumshaw" <david.bircumshaw at ntlworld.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 6:10 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Mapanje


> If anyone's within visiting distance the African poet Jack Mapanje will be
> reading at the Clepham building at De Montfort University Leicester on
> Friday the 11th at 7.30 pm. Price 3.50/2.50 sterling. The reading is
hosted
> jointly by the Leicester Pietry Society and De Montfort University.
>
> Cheers
>
> Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Nov  5 18:51:22 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:51:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
References: <200511041531.jA4FVJNf230864@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net>
	<731bb17a0511040756i434e717cw66be8c67b94b288@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301c5e263$d43219a0$2db831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>


  Anyway--I enjoy blogs, as well, when I get to see a glimpse of the person, not the agenda--if that makes any sense.  I read Bob's blog on a regular basis, and while I enjoy his posts about poetry, I like it best when he's dealing with his own thought processes, trying to coin a new word, for example.  To me, this is most interesting. 

  Yours,

  Jeff Newberry

  Thanks for the plug, Jeff.  And for giving me a chance to babble again about blogs.  The only one I vist with any frequency is Geof Huth's--because he often says something absolutely RIDICULOUS about visual poetry that I have to argue with him about (and because he and I go back a ways).  I do try to visit other blogs once in a while like Ron Silliman's and Crag Hill's.  It's hard to remember to.  I hadn't visited Jeff's till I saw he'd been to mine, so thought I owed it to visit his (and he DOES say something semi-intelligent once in a while).  Too much religious and political stuff currently there for me to stay long but I'll be back.  Actually, once there, I realized I HAD been there before.  I tend to go to others' blogs mostly when someone at New-Poetry or Spidertangle (the vispo equivalent of New-Poetry) says something about what's at it that intrigues me.  Or a search brings me to one.

  As I've said before, I think blogs are a super-terrific resource.  They give the blogger a chance to connect to whatever public there might be for him without middle-men getting in the way. And the public has a chance to keep up with a favorite writer, and easily re-visit previous writings, without the problem of middle-men, or waiting for publication of something middle-men have let through, etc.

  But, as I've said before, my blog is mostly part journal and part try-out stage for me.  I'd love to have readers but that I don't, to any extent, doesn't bother me.

  --Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051105/3eaf37a7/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov  6 12:37:00 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 18:37:00 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Microsoft and the British Library
Message-ID: <004501c5e2f8$b1bbaa40$69ab3252@ANNY>

Microsoft continues to work with the British Library on its development of the infrastructure for the National Digital Library.
Microsoft and the British Library today announced a strategic partnership to digitise 25 million pages of content from the Library's collections in 2006, with a long term commitment to digitise still more in the future. 

http://www.bl.uk/news/2005/pressrelease20051104.html



Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051106/6005aabd/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov  6 12:52:21 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 18:52:21 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
References: <731bb17a0511040651nf6de122u3832f30be750a6af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005401c5e2fa$d68af720$69ab3252@ANNY>

Have a look at this, only entry on Else Mads blog by Scott Wilkerson:

If there exists a blog (and I am not yet persuaded), then the blogger will find himself in the untenable--and, therefore, perhaps heroic--position of composing the simulacra of his own ruin. However one characterizes the post-paper, para-narrativity of the blogging impulse, there is no clear sense in which the form itself mediates that critical space between logos and the complex transience of the internet. I propose, here, to build a compendium of materials with a view toward formulating a theory of Imblogature and the prevailing Blogos in which it is conceived.
http://elsemads.blogspot.com/


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  To: NewPoetry 
  Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:51 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs


  Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular basis.  Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?

  I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's "Sturgeon's Law" (http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).

  Others?

  Jeff Newberry

  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno

  Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/

   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051106/63e7a334/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  6 13:18:14 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:18:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
In-Reply-To: <005401c5e2fa$d68af720$69ab3252@ANNY>
References: <731bb17a0511040651nf6de122u3832f30be750a6af@mail.gmail.com>
	<005401c5e2fa$d68af720$69ab3252@ANNY>
Message-ID: <E7AF8247-9594-4804-8EC2-7EC93A64E1E1@earthlink.net>

Oops, I stepped in that. Now I have to go change my shoes.

Hal

On Nov 6, 2005, at 12:52 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> Have a look at this, only entry on Else Mads blog by Scott Wilkerson:
>
> If there exists a blog (and I am not yet persuaded), then the  
> blogger will find himself in the untenable--and, therefore, perhaps  
> heroic--position of composing the simulacra of his own ruin.  
> However one characterizes the post-paper, para-narrativity of the  
> blogging impulse, there is no clear sense in which the form itself  
> mediates that critical space between logos and the complex  
> transience of the internet. I propose, here, to build a compendium  
> of materials with a view toward formulating a theory of Imblogature  
> and the prevailing Blogos in which it is conceived.
> http://elsemads.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Newberry
> To: NewPoetry
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:51 PM
> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
>
> Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular  
> basis.  Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and  
> like?
>
> I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's  
> "Sturgeon's Law" (http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).
>
> Others?
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> -- 
> "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
>                                                    --Miguel de Unamuno
>
> Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051106/12d1e387/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov  6 13:36:09 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:36:09 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
References: <731bb17a0511040651nf6de122u3832f30be750a6af@mail.gmail.com><005401c5e2fa$d68af720$69ab3252@ANNY>
	<E7AF8247-9594-4804-8EC2-7EC93A64E1E1@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <007901c5e300$f4d9b260$69ab3252@ANNY>

aH Hal 
I've always told to you be careful!
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:18 PM


  Oops, I stepped in that. Now I have to go change my shoes.


  Hal


  On Nov 6, 2005, at 12:52 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:


    Have a look at this, only entry on Else Mads blog by Scott Wilkerson:

    If there exists a blog (and I am not yet persuaded), then the blogger will find himself in the untenable--and, therefore, perhaps heroic--position of composing the simulacra of his own ruin. However one characterizes the post-paper, para-narrativity of the blogging impulse, there is no clear sense in which the form itself mediates that critical space between logos and the complex transience of the internet. I propose, here, to build a compendium of materials with a view toward formulating a theory of Imblogature and the prevailing Blogos in which it is conceived.
    http://elsemads.blogspot.com/


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Jeff Newberry 
      To: NewPoetry 
      Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:51 PM
      Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs


      Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a regular basis.  Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you read and like?

      I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's "Sturgeon's Law" (http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).

      Others?

      Jeff Newberry

      -- 
      "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                         --Miguel de Unamuno

      Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/

       
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051106/c2a95ad7/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov  6 16:37:03 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:37:03 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Pinsky
Message-ID: <001101c5e31a$3ac1ee50$69ab3252@ANNY>

on kqed now,


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051106/d4599430/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 18:22:42 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 18:22:42 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] UGA Press Accuses Plagiarism
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511061522n66096009v3fa40058e7dce41f@mail.gmail.com>

Commentary by Jake Adam York:
 " [ . . . ] the University of Georgia Press
<http://www.ugapress.uga.edu/>recently recalled Brad Vice's
recently-published Flannery
O'Connor Award <http://www.ugapress.uga.edu/info_aup_submitfoc.html>-winning
volume *The Bear Bryant Funeral
Train*<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=jacobsladde04-20&creative=9325&path=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/082032745X?v=glance%26n=283155%26v=glance>with
the intention of pulping it. The
Press stripped him of his award and declared "no future editions are
planned."<http://chronicle.com/temp/email.php?id=fvhh0abrifdirv7voi4uf2j8t6rbe31d>
 http://www.storysouth.com/comment/
    Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051106/d2049d64/attachment.html>

From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  7 07:07:41 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 04:07:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <20051107120741.31760.qmail@web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Soft enjambment:
the role of linebreaks in the poetry of
Alan Dugan & Jimmy Schuyler

The Apprentice:
A novel by I. Lewis Libby

My Quietist youth ???
A poem written when I was 20

The focus of history ???
The school of quietude moment on campus
1945-1960

Doings:
Assorted performance pieces
by Jackson Mac Low 
(his happiest book)

Fact-based drama ???
Why Monster, Good Night, & Good Luck
and Dog Day Afternoon
are the same motion picture

Body Prints:
The early poems of Rochelle Nameroff

Another alternative to MS Word

If I were a Graduate Math Text???

500,000 readers!

18 Debut Poets 
Who made their mark in 2005

Under Albany:
A Small Press Traffic ???Book of the Year???

Ashbery???s Traditions:
How to read at Harvard

Picking a fight (gently):
John Ashbery & Other Traditions


http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Nov  7 08:33:27 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 14:33:27 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] UGA Press Accuses Plagiarism
References: <731bb17a0511061522n66096009v3fa40058e7dce41f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c5e39f$d6530f40$40e83652@ANNY>

Credits are credits, I think we will see much more from here to come, 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  To: NewPoetry 
  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:22 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] UGA Press Accuses Plagiarism


  Commentary by Jake Adam York:

  " [ . . . ] the University of Georgia Press recently recalled Brad Vice's recently-published Flannery O'Connor Award -winning volume The Bear Bryant Funeral Train with the intention of pulping it. The Press stripped him of his award and declared "no future editions are planned." 

  http://www.storysouth.com/comment/





  Jeff Newberry

  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno

  Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/

   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051107/e00a12b6/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Nov  7 11:30:30 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:30:30 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mitchell
Message-ID: <BF94DD46.2961%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A toast to Joni Mitchell, 62 years old today.


 
COLD BLUE STEEL AND SWEET FIRE
 
Cold Blue Steel out of money
One eye for the beat police
Sweet Fire calling
"You can't deny me
Now you know what you need"
Underneath the jungle gym
Hollow-grey-fire-escape-thief
Looking for Sweet Fire
Shadow of Lady Release
"Come with me
I know the way" she says
"It's down, down, down the dark ladder
Do you want to contact somebody first
Leave someone a letter
You can come now
Or you can come later"
 
A wristwatch, a ring, a downstairs screamer
Edgy-black cracks of the sky
"Pin-cushion-prick-
Fix this poor bad dreamer!"
"Money" cold shadows reply
Pawnshops crisscrossed and padlocked
Corridors spit on prayers and pleas
Sparks fly up from Sweet Fire
Black soot of Lady Release
"Come with me
I know the way" she says
"It's down, down, down the dark ladder
Do you want to contact somebody first
Does it really matter
If you come now
Or if you come on later?"
 
Red water in the bathroom sink
Fever and the scum brown bowl
Blue Steel still begging
But it's indistinct
Someone's Hi-Fi drumming Jelly Roll
Concrete concentration camp
Bashing in veins for peace
Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire
Fall into Lady Release
"Come with me I know the way" she says
"It's down, down, down the dark ladder
Do you want to contact somebody first
I mean what does it really matter
You're going to come now
Or you're going to come later"


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  7 11:35:11 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:35:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
In-Reply-To: <007901c5e300$f4d9b260$69ab3252@ANNY>
References: <731bb17a0511040651nf6de122u3832f30be750a6af@mail.gmail.com><005401c5e2fa$d68af720$69ab3252@ANNY>
	<E7AF8247-9594-4804-8EC2-7EC93A64E1E1@earthlink.net>
	<007901c5e300$f4d9b260$69ab3252@ANNY>
Message-ID: <22C5CF25-8399-4B8C-873C-243248A82FD7@earthlink.net>

You have indeed, Anny. But sometimes I find I just
must lift my eyes from the sidewalk.

Hal

On Nov 6, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:

> aH Hal
> I've always told to you be careful!
> From: Halvard Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:18 PM
>
> Oops, I stepped in that. Now I have to go change my shoes.
>
> Hal
>
> On Nov 6, 2005, at 12:52 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>
>> Have a look at this, only entry on Else Mads blog by Scott Wilkerson:
>>
>> If there exists a blog (and I am not yet persuaded), then the  
>> blogger will find himself in the untenable--and, therefore,  
>> perhaps heroic--position of composing the simulacra of his own  
>> ruin. However one characterizes the post-paper, para-narrativity  
>> of the blogging impulse, there is no clear sense in which the form  
>> itself mediates that critical space between logos and the complex  
>> transience of the internet. I propose, here, to build a compendium  
>> of materials with a view toward formulating a theory of  
>> Imblogature and the prevailing Blogos in which it is conceived.
>> http://elsemads.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff Newberry
>> To: NewPoetry
>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:51 PM
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Blogs
>>
>> Here's a question for any of you who read poetry blogs on a  
>> regular basis.  Besides Silliman's Blog, what poetry blogs do you  
>> read and like?
>>
>> I like Mike Snider's a lot, and I always read Steve Schroeder's  
>> "Sturgeon's Law" (http://www.steveschroeder.info/news.html).
>>
>> Others?
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
>> -- 
>> "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
>>                                                    --Miguel de  
>> Unamuno
>>
>> Blog:   http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051107/577e6d75/attachment.html>

From hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov  7 11:59:11 2005
From: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk (gbemi tijani-mst)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:59:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] comment on vincent blafard 's poem by gbemi tijani mst
Message-ID: <20051107165911.48118.qmail@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


 

 

 

 7/11/05

 

 

 

 

 MAIL TO NEW ?POETRY AT WIZ.CATH.VT.EDU

 SUBJECT: High Altitude Sound ?VINCENT BLAFARD

INDIVIDUAL POEM COMMENT BY GBEMI TIJANI-MST

 

High Altitude Sound 

 

Woke up with a mustache. Try shouting in a straight line. Golden clover, grassy calf. Dwarves with my name on them. Southern vines, pyramid carvings made with delicate hands under a tropic sun as reaction to sunburn She likes to read about the small people. Work dissolves. The wrong kind of order. Orchard slowly loses its breath to a branch grown down. A man and his boat cut across the main avenue on a tidal wave. Dim caravans. A curtain conceals landscape only. Billows half-baked tone. Cranial mountain-stains around its edges

 

 

Thanks for this poem WRITTEN BY Vincent Blafard 


Please forgive or permit my modest comment in the sense that poet?s subject isn?t just single-minded to me. I imagine he was initially possibly gratefully abstract about our early routine of waking ?which is a daily privilege ceteris paribus 
Surely not everybody carries a moustache-African, American, Canadian or British inclusive! Andrew Wylie,Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti do retain cute moustache. Then he launched into a deep expanse of wider nature again via the close proximity of an orchard to the voyage of a skilled sailor. What a sagacious conception of man!. He knows that a na?ve boater wouldn?t be able to locate an avenue in the vast stretch of an ocean. A boat or the primordial canoe is beyond a toy in the hands of an unschooled sportsman or a lay voyager.  Besides Blafard?s different perception with Robert Phillips and Joyce Carol Oates on the ocean and skin harvest as subjects they respectively did poetic justice to in the 50th edition of The Paris Review -his
 meditation tastes adventurously dense but hopeful of a destination. Possibilities are sequel to a man?s resilience so to speak.

Again how does a straight- line -shout sound like? Has it any colour? Or a different wavelength? Will the decibel level be benign or malign to the shouter and the immediate habitat?

 Will it leave any safe dent or delight on the ecosystem?

If his character has a penchant for small people indeed, I hope he wont gloss over the fictitious Lilliputians of Gulliver?s Travels and our own real Congo pygmies in Africa ?still breathing still alive and well evolved too.

I also note that his layout is palpably unversified yet it?s rich in imagery -is this one of his experimental poetry?

May the Superior Poet help us towards the path of (linear) coherence-reechoed barely a year ago in NEW POETRY and VIEWS by David Graham?

 

I will like to be exchanging snippets as well as essays with poets that are not only transgenre but  whose works provoke philosophical individuality or are successfully stabilized despite the involuntary grip by the scruff of the neck of poets? ubiquitous raw material for symbolic scripting. I opine this is very selective to poets or polyvalent writers. No mind is clearly fecund for musing if it?s bugled by ?for instance, disaster news or an unhealed hurt he or she has a direct trauma
 I don?t mind good love poetry too to buoy up my total psyche these days accentuated globally with disaster -above and beneath in Greece,Pakistan,Nigeria UK and the USA.

Most of them -often naturally or needlessly wickedly artificially provoked. Imagine that this experience and event recur or recoil before his very eyes or organizational lens in solidarity despite his unique niche among beings and technical sophistication, he?s conquered outer space and the gross morphology and microscopic details of microbes for better milk or medicine
He hasn?t yet conquered his mind and those of others they share class but not creed. He is erudite in the biochemistry and geology of other planets but not yet committed to the history and poetry (except exogenous politics) of equidistant countries he should have been humble and hilariously become hyper specialists to practice one love and international understanding. This could also be a leverage for survival of the species and longer span for Homo sapiens. There?s intra personal stress as well as international conflict because we?re not historians, biologists with poetic compassion. There are astrophysicists
 psychobiologists but there are no neurotheologists to look into tolerance and peaceful co-existence. A MAZE OF LITERARY CANON ALSO EXISTS GLOBLLY but there are few panergyrics other than by compatriots for other nations. Hero-worshipping is ethnocentric.

 

I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REPLY.

All love

Gbemi

5/11/05

Email:hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk


		
---------------------------------
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051107/ce3523f1/attachment.html>

From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 12:38:20 2005
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:38:20 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: comment on vincent blafard 's poem by gbemi tijani
	mst
In-Reply-To: <20051107165911.48118.qmail@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20051107165911.48118.qmail@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <648208b60511070938if7c6a4fr82c9547faf91b5ab@mail.gmail.com>

This is spam-speak, no?
- Jim
On 11/7/05, gbemi tijani-mst <hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:>>>  7/11/05>>  MAIL TO NEW ?POETRY AT WIZ.CATH.VT.EDU>>  SUBJECT: High Altitude Sound ?VINCENT BLAFARD>> INDIVIDUAL POEM COMMENT BY GBEMI TIJANI-MST>>>> High Altitude Sound>>>> Woke up with a mustache. Try shouting in a straight line. Golden clover,> grassy calf. Dwarves with my name on them. Southern vines, pyramid carvings> made with delicate hands under a tropic sun as reaction to sunburn She likes> to read about the small people. Work dissolves. The wrong kind of order.> Orchard slowly loses its breath to a branch grown down. A man and his boat> cut across the main avenue on a tidal wave. Dim caravans. A curtain conceals> landscape only. Billows half-baked tone. Cranial mountain-stains around its> edges>>>>>> Thanks for this poem WRITTEN BY Vincent Blafard ?>> Please forgive or permit my modest comment in the sense that poet's subject> isn't just single-minded to me. I imagine he was initially possibly> gratefully abstract about our early routine of waking ?which is a daily> privilege ceteris paribus ?Surely not everybody carries a moustache-African,> American, Canadian or British inclusive! Andrew Wylie,Allen Ginsberg and> Lawrence Ferlinghetti do retain cute moustache. Then he launched into a deep> expanse of wider nature again via the close proximity of an orchard to the> voyage of a skilled sailor. What a sagacious conception of man!. He knows> that a na?ve boater wouldn't be able to locate an avenue in the vast stretch> of an ocean. A boat or the primordial canoe is beyond a toy in the hands of> an unschooled sportsman or a lay voyager.  Besides Blafard's different> perception with Robert Phillips and Joyce Carol Oates on the ocean and skin> harvest as subjects they respectively did poetic justice to in the 50th> edition of The Paris Revi!> ew -his>  meditation tastes adventurously dense but hopeful of a destination.> Possibilities are sequel to a man's resilience so to speak.>> Again how does a straight- line -shout sound like? Has it any colour? Or a> different wavelength? Will the decibel level be benign or malign to the> shouter and the immediate habitat?>>  Will it leave any safe dent or delight on the ecosystem?>> If his character has a penchant for small people indeed, I hope he wont> gloss over the fictitious Lilliputians of Gulliver's Travels and our own> real Congo pygmies in Africa ?still breathing still alive and well evolved> too.>> I also note that his layout is palpably unversified yet it's rich in imagery> -is this one of his experimental poetry?>> May the Superior Poet help us towards the path of (linear)> coherence-reechoed barely a year ago in NEW POETRY and VIEWS by David> Graham?>>>> I will like to be exchanging snippets as well as essays with poets that are> not only transgenre but  whose works provoke philosophical individuality or> are successfully stabilized despite the involuntary grip by the scruff of> the neck of poets' ubiquitous raw material for symbolic scripting. I opine> this is very selective to poets or polyvalent writers. No mind is clearly> fecund for musing if it's bugled by ?for instance, disaster news or an> unhealed hurt he or she has a direct trauma? I don't mind good love poetry> too to buoy up my total psyche these days accentuated globally with disaster> -above and beneath in Greece,Pakistan,Nigeria UK and the USA.>> Most of them -often naturally or needlessly wickedly artificially provoked.> Imagine that this experience and event recur or recoil before his very eyes> or organizational lens in solidarity despite his unique niche among beings> and technical sophistication, he's conquered outer space and the gross> morphology and microscopic details of microbes for better milk or> medicine?He hasn't yet conquered his mind and those of others they share> class but not creed. He is erudite in the biochemistry and geology of other> planets but not yet committed to the history and poetry (except exogenous> politics) of equidistant countries he should have been humble and> hilariously become hyper specialists to practice one love and international> understanding. This could also be a leverage for survival of the species and> longer span for Homo sapiens. There's intra personal stress as well as> international conflict because we're not historians, biologists with poetic> compassion. There are astrophysicists>  psychobiologists but there are no neurotheologists to look into tolerance> and peaceful co-existence. A MAZE OF LITERARY CANON ALSO EXISTS GLOBLLY but> there are few panergyrics other than by compatriots for other nations.> Hero-worshipping is ethnocentric.>>>> I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REPLY.>> All love>> Gbemi>> 5/11/05>> Email:hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk>>> 		> ---------------------------------> How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE> with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos>

--~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.htmlSalt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Nov  7 16:25:49 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:25:49 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: comment on vincent blafard 's poem by gbemi
	tijanimst
References: <20051107165911.48118.qmail@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<648208b60511070938if7c6a4fr82c9547faf91b5ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003701c5e3e1$d30bf490$56d63152@ANNY>

Yes_

and besides that at least s/he does not send all the digest of a couple of 
months back as s/he used to___

From: "James Cervantes" <cervantes.james at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 6:38 PM


> This is spam-speak, no?
> - Jim

> --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Homepages: 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.htmlSalt 
> River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org




From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Nov  7 22:02:07 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:02:07 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] 'The Trouble with Poetry'    
Message-ID: <1e2.4856a955.30a16f2f@aol.com>

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4990320
Billy Collins on 'The Trouble with Poetry'
 by Jacki Lyden 
 (real audio)
 All Things Considered, November 6, 2005 ? Poet Billy Collins admits he's a 
thief. Instead of nabbing jewelry and picking locks, he pilfers from other 
poets. At least that's what he claims in his new collection, The Trouble with 
Poetry: And Other Poems. 
 
Collins says the central theme of poetry is death. He manages to ruminate on 
this in a manner both whimsical and poignant. That approach helps explain how, 
along with critical acclaim, Collins also has gained a broad popular fan base 
-- a rare feat for an American poet. 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051107/a130a471/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Nov  8 02:53:49 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:53:49 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] The Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <025401c5e439$937c41b0$808f3052@ANNY>

Poem:"The Wildest Word" by June Robertson Beisch from Fatherless Woman.? Cape Cod Literary Press. Reprinted with permission.



The Wildest Word

The Benedictines had it, they knew
the joys of silence, the illuminating of 
manuscripts, the careful diffusion of
esoteria.

The pleasures of abstinence.

Get to a point where you can deny yourself anything
and then you are halfway there, some say.
And poems are made
of love not made.

Emily Dickinson refused
the offered touch and reveled in her own
self abnegation. "The wildest word
consigned to man is No," she wrote.

"You love me best when I refuse."

"Imagined love is better than the real,
and occupies the highest branch of Eden's tree,"
wrote Edna St. Vincent Millay.

"Like fallen fruit, lived love is cheap." 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051108/bfa8a734/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov  8 06:19:14 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 06:19:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] 'The Trouble with Poetry'    
References: <1e2.4856a955.30a16f2f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c5e456$40702960$3ab831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Billy Collins on 'The Trouble with Poetry'

 by Jacki Lyden 
 (real audio)

All Things Considered, November 6, 2005 ? Poet Billy Collins admits he's a thief. Instead of nabbing jewelry and picking locks, he pilfers from other poets. At least that's what he claims in his new collection, The Trouble with Poetry: And Other Poems. 

Collins says the central theme of poetry is death. He manages to ruminate on this in a manner both whimsical and poignant. That approach helps explain how, along with critical acclaim, Collins also has gained a broad popular fan base -- a rare feat for an American poet. 

****

Aha, at last I know for sure why I've never gained a broad popular fan base, or won any awards as a poet--I always thought the central theme of poetry was pogo sticks.

--Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051108/53f1aa22/attachment.html>

From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk  Thu Nov 10 12:07:22 2005
From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:07:22 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] reviews of Lisa Samuels and Rosanna Warren
Message-ID: <1131642442.43737e4aa0c6a@webmail.ukonline.net>



My reviews of

Lisa Samuels, Paradise for Everyone
Rosanna Warren, Departure

are now online at

http://www.stridemagazine.co.uk

... and soon at the History of W Culture, etc

Michael Peverett
http://michaelpeverett.blogspot.com

----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net


From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Thu Nov 10 16:05:22 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:05:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] warren
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BDF@mail.emerson.edu>

Warren's mother Eleanor Clark was a noted novelist and essayist
who, before marrying Robert Penn in 1952 and later giving birth 
to Rosanna, was engaged (approx 1938-40) to the great Louis 
MacNeice. . . who wrote some of his best (in my estimation) poems
to her, including the following:

CRADLE SONG FOR ELEANOR

Sleep, my darling, sleep;
   The pity of it all
Is all we compass if
   We watch disaster fall.
Put off your twenty-odd
   Encumbered years and creep
Into the only heaven,
   The robbers' cave of sleep.

The wild grass will whisper,
   Lights of passing cars
Will streak across your dreams
   And fumble at the stars;
Life will tap the window
   Only too soon again,
Life will have her answer?
   Do not ask her when.

When the winsome bubble
   Shivers, when the bough
Breaks, will be the moment
   But not here or now.
Sleep and, asleep, forget
   The watchers on the wall
Awake all night who know
    The pity of it all.


*
.... if Rosanna had inherited the MacNeice poetic
genes rather than the Penn Warren?  Yeats: "The
poetry is not in the pity."






-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3043 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051110/ab7e9724/attachment.bin>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Nov 11 15:04:20 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:04:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Katy Giebenhain
Message-ID: <00c701c5e6fb$1aa26fc0$4bab3852@ANNY>

Katy Giebenhain

Glucose Self-Monitoring

A stabbing in miniature, it is, 
a tiny crime, 
my own blood parceled 
drop by drop and set 
on the flickering tongue 
of this machine. 
It is the spout-punching of trees 
for syrup new and smooth 
and sweeter 
than nature ever intended. 
It is Sleeping Beauty's curse 
and fascination. 
It is the dipstick measuring of oil 
from the Buick's throat, 
the necessary maintenance. 
It is every vampire movie ever made. 
Hand, my martyr without lips, 
my quiet cow. 
I'll milk your fingertips 
for all they're worth. 
For what they're worth. 
Something like a harvest, it is, 
a tiny crime. 

Reprinted from "Best of Prairie Schooner: Fiction and Poetry," University of Nebraska Press, 2001, by permission of the author, whose most recent book is "Good Morning and Good Night", University of Illinois Press, 2005. This weekly column is supported by The Poetry Foundation, The Library of Congress, and the Department of English at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051111/c218042d/attachment.html>

From cc at opus0.com  Fri Nov 11 18:03:24 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:03:24 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Santayana, _The Sense of Beauty_1
In-Reply-To: <200511111700.jABH03M3001468@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJCEGLCHAA.cc@opus0.com>

 Just completed George Santayana's book on aesthetics, containing a fund of
great ideas and quotable quotes.  These seem to me quite applicable to
poetry and poets as to other artists.

p6:"...insight into the basis of our preferences, if it could be gained,
would not fail to have a good und purifying influence upon them. It would
show us the futility of a dogmatism that would impose upon another
[person's] judgments and emotions for which the needed soil is lacking in
his[/her] constitution and experience..."







From matthew.shindell at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 19:03:21 2005
From: matthew.shindell at gmail.com (Matthew Shindell)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:03:21 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] This Sunday on My Vocabulary -- From the Fishouse
Message-ID: <3f273e940511111603l31d2a67fg504fadd8cb810563@mail.gmail.com>

As you enjoy your holiday weekend, I hope you won't forget to tune
into KSDT radio (available online at http://scw.ucsd.edu/) for this
week's instalment of My Vocabulary this Sunday from 4-6pm PST (that's
7-9pm for you East Coast folks). It's going to be a great show. Great
poets. Our biggest lineup yet!

This week we have poems straight From the Fishouse, a nonprofit
organization dedicated to the preservation of the oral tradition in
poetry (read more about them at http://www.fishousepoems.org/).
Special thanks to Matt O'Donnell and Camille Dungy for providing the
audio for the show, as well as a great intro about From the Fishouse,
how and why it works. They've done some wonderful work so I hope
you'll tune in to hear some of the fruits of their labor.

Poets will include . . .

Major Jackson
Curtis Bauer
Adrian Blevins
Shane Book
Geoffrey Brock
Stacey Lynn Brown
Tina Chang
Lauri Conner
Mark Conway
Oliver de la Paz
Matthew Dickman
Camille Dungy
Gibson Fay-LeBlanc
Kevin A. Gonzalez
Rigoberto Gonzalez
Maria Hummel
Amaud Jamaul Johnson
Adrian Matejka
Sebastian Matthews
Carmen O. Menendez
Sarah Messer
Aimee Nezhukumatahil
Barbara Jane Reyes
Patrick Rosal
Steve Scafidi
Ravi Shankar
Evie Shockley
Sean Singer
Laura-Gray Street
Brian Turner
Douglas Woodsum

This show is fully booked, but as always we're on the lookout for new
material. Please visit our blog, http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com and
find out how you can contribute your poetry. Or just reply to this
message with whatever questions you might have.

Thanks,
Matthew Shindell

--
My Vocabulary: Poems and Music
Hosted by Matthew Shindell
Music by Michel Cazary
Sundays 4-6 pm (PST) on KSDT (http://scw.ucsd.edu/)
http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com
MyVocabulary at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051111/813c80bf/attachment.html>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Fri Nov 11 19:17:21 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:17:21 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] more warren  
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BE3@mail.emerson.edu>

another one of Louis MacNeice's poems written
to Rosanna Warren's mother Eleanor Clark, circa
1938-9:

MEETING POINT

Time was away and somewhere else,
There were two glasses and two chairs
And two people with the one pulse
(Somebody stopped the moving stairs):
Time was away and somewhere else.

And they were neither up nor down;
The stream's music did not stop
Flowing through heather, limpid brown,
Although they sat in a coffee shop
And they were neither up nor down.

The bell was silent in the air
Holding its inverted poise?
Between the clang and clang a flower,
A brazen calyx of no noise:
The bell was silent in the air.

The camels crossed the miles of sand
That stretched around the cups and plates;
The desert was their own, they planned
To portion out the stars and dates:
The camels crossed the miles of sand.

Time was away and somewhere else.
The waiter did not come, the clock
Forgot them and the radio waltz
Came out like water from a rock:
Time was away and somewhere else.

Her fingers flicked away the ash
That bloomed again in tropic trees:
Not caring if the markets crash
When they had forests such as these,
Her fingers flicked away the ash.

God or whatever means the Good
Be praised that time can stop like this,
That what the heart has understood
Can verify in the body's peace
God or whatever means the Good.

Time was away and she was here
And life no longer what it was,
The bell was silent in the air
And all the room one glow because
Time was away and she was here.

*

... thinking of inherited poetic talent:
Warren and Franz Wright the most recent 
examples of successful poets whose fathers 
were successful poets. . .

I remember meeting the daughter of 
David Ignatow, Yaedi Ignatow. . . (she
published one book about 25 years ago,
and has not to my knowledge published
since, if I'm wrong please correct me). . . this was
back in 1985: she complained of the pressures
of having a successful poet parent, and when 
I mentioned Franz Wright, she responded
jokingly, "Franz Wright is lucky: his father's dead!"


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3554 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051111/0babc10f/attachment.bin>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Fri Nov 11 19:39:53 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:39:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] oops: erratum in my last post
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BE4@mail.emerson.edu>

Yaedi Ignatow's book was published about
FIFTEEN YEARS AGO, NOT TWENTY FIVE!


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2290 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051111/4b1e453b/attachment.bin>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Fri Nov 11 19:45:48 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:45:48 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic genes
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BE5@mail.emerson.edu>

the sucessful careers of Warren and Wright
and (perhaps) Frieda Hughes would seem to indicate
that poetic talent can be inherited. . .

are there other examples i'm forgetting?
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2353 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051111/b8853ef8/attachment.bin>

From AlMaginnes at aol.com  Fri Nov 11 19:58:47 2005
From: AlMaginnes at aol.com (AlMaginnes at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:58:47 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic genes
Message-ID: <1f3.16b35280.30a69847@aol.com>

I wouldn't put any of these anywhere close to their parents'  acheivements.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051111/a964f8cd/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Nov 12 15:40:58 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:40:58 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Amy Gerstler
Message-ID: <BF9BAF7A.15A7F%grahamd@ripon.edu>



Her Account of Herself

Born at the onset 
of this tranquilizer age,
I spent decades awakening,
wandering this nation's
dazzling displays 
of petticoats and neckties.
I grew into a needle-nosed
scribbler, a tight-lipped
wallflower seated between
lively philistines at banquets
and sacrifices.   Such am I:
a barren head-hanger,
a secret rabbit breeder,
addicted to bonbons
and collecting botanically
accurate hand-tinted
etchings of flowering cacti
since time out of mind.
I kept my legs crossed
just as instructed,
for a hideously long time.
I still have trouble telling
the difference between
progress and pathology,
hate getting my face wet,
will not eat banana squash,
learned to ride a bike
at twenty, experience
difficulty warming up.
Were there a museum of me,
it might contain my fur muff,
my pup's first leather collar,
necklaces I made as a child
by stringing watermelon seeds,
my hearing aid, five mother-
of-pearl buttons from my unhappy
grandmother's blouse
(she never wanted to marry,
but got pregnant, and that
was that), a lopped-off ponytail,
a red eucalyptus leaf
that stuck to the windshield
of one I unsuccessfully loved,
my pocket watch, and the tub of
sweet grease I use 
to groom my terrible hair.
I've often sought asylum,
remained unseduced by food,
planted a kiss on the wall
by the landing where the turn
in the stairs is called
the "coffin corner."
I'm nothing if not 
cheerfully morbid, or so
my friends claim.
Call upon me if you need
contact with that breezy,
self-conscious type of turmoil
that chases its tail all day,
forming little whirlwinds.


--Amy Gerstler.  Crown of Weeds.  Penguin, 1997.




====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051112/d0374767/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sat Nov 12 17:30:22 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:30:22 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Amy Gerstler
References: <BF9BAF7A.15A7F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <01fb01c5e7d8$abe2d910$92a83852@ANNY>

Amy GerstlerFundamentally, everything is right.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Graham 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:40 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Amy Gerstler




  Her Account of Herself

  Born at the onset 
  of this tranquilizer age, 
  I spent decades awakening, 
  wandering this nation's 
  dazzling displays 
  of petticoats and neckties. 
  I grew into a needle-nosed 
  scribbler, a tight-lipped 
  wallflower seated between 
  lively philistines at banquets 
  and sacrifices.   Such am I: 
  a barren head-hanger,
  a secret rabbit breeder, 
  addicted to bonbons 
  and collecting botanically
  accurate hand-tinted
  etchings of flowering cacti 
  since time out of mind. 
  I kept my legs crossed 
  just as instructed, 
  for a hideously long time. 
  I still have trouble telling 
  the difference between 
  progress and pathology, 
  hate getting my face wet, 
  will not eat banana squash, 
  learned to ride a bike 
  at twenty, experience 
  difficulty warming up. 
  Were there a museum of me,
  it might contain my fur muff,
  my pup's first leather collar, 
  necklaces I made as a child 
  by stringing watermelon seeds, 
  my hearing aid, five mother-
  of-pearl buttons from my unhappy
  grandmother's blouse
  (she never wanted to marry, 
  but got pregnant, and that 
  was that), a lopped-off ponytail, 
  a red eucalyptus leaf 
  that stuck to the windshield 
  of one I unsuccessfully loved, 
  my pocket watch, and the tub of 
  sweet grease I use 
  to groom my terrible hair.
  I've often sought asylum, 
  remained unseduced by food, 
  planted a kiss on the wall 
  by the landing where the turn 
  in the stairs is called 
  the "coffin corner."
  I'm nothing if not 
  cheerfully morbid, or so 
  my friends claim.
  Call upon me if you need 
  contact with that breezy, 
  self-conscious type of turmoil 
  that chases its tail all day, 
  forming little whirlwinds.


  --Amy Gerstler.  Crown of Weeds.  Penguin, 1997.




  ====================================================
  David Graham
  grahamd at ripon.edu
  Home Page:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
  Poetry Library:
  http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
  ====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051112/d1174cff/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 13 05:09:50 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:09:50 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] from yesterday's The Writer's Almanac
Message-ID: <009001c5e83a$62b9fb30$7fd63152@ANNY>

Poem:"Modern Maturity" by Jeffrey Skinner from Salt Water Amnesia ? Ausable Press. Reprinted with permission of the poet. (buy now)

Modern Maturity

When I quit smoking my sense of smell increased sevenfold. I knew the drop of rain, still
cloud-borne, beginning to think of its fall. Walking on the pier, I sensed the crate of
marjoram and other spices nudged carelessly to the rocks, some two hundred years ago. I
imagined the soft explosion of blonde dust drifting over waves. I can now smell my
wife's moods, which has done wonders for our marriage! Last night I looked at the sky
and, I swear, a clean blue-and-white burning reached me from Orion. Smells, tunneling
back to childhood; thermos of coffee Mom opens on long car trips; the red-headed girl I
loved because she smelled like spaghetti; the rubbery cold bathing suit; pee,
chlorine. My hearing and eyesight are going fast, but my smell is keen as a basset
hound's! In fact, I'm spending more time than ever with my basset hound, Emma. Emma,
I say, donning my deerstalker, Looks very like another day for the woods, what? Oh she
and I wander so happy beneath the canopy, on a trail-less floor of dry leaf, moss, stone.
Everything that has ever befallen the universe, I have discovered, is written there, if only
you know how to read it, and we do, my dog and I, we do. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I find it lovely


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051113/be7f5dba/attachment.html>

From hruggier at localnet.com  Sun Nov 13 10:57:29 2005
From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:57:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic genes
References: <1f3.16b35280.30a69847@aol.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c5e86a$f4119ea0$6700a8c0@Helen>

I seem to remember that Ezra Pound's son - Omar? - wrote poetry but I have never read any. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: AlMaginnes at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 7:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetic genes


  I wouldn't put any of these anywhere close to their parents' acheivements.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry

--------------------------------------------
My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.choicemailfree.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051113/1b83a496/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 13 11:24:11 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:24:11 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic genes
References: <1f3.16b35280.30a69847@aol.com>
	<017a01c5e86a$f4119ea0$6700a8c0@Helen>
Message-ID: <004c01c5e86e$aeaa4c50$33de3052@ANNY>


Mary does, married into de Rachewiltz, here is one on the Corner
http://www.fieralingue.it/corner.php?pa=printpage&pid=235

I know nothing of Omar, sorry,

  From: Helen Ruggieri 
  Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:57 PM


  I seem to remember that Ezra Pound's son - Omar? - wrote poetry but I have never read any. 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: AlMaginnes at aol.com 
    To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
    Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 7:58 PM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poetic genes


    I wouldn't put any of these anywhere close to their parents' acheivements.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051113/84f6d437/attachment.html>

From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sun Nov 13 13:33:54 2005
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:33:54 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic genes
Message-ID: <20051113183354.1D83213CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051113/893e1fe9/attachment.html>

From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 07:10:43 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:10:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <20051114121043.95940.qmail@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Elizabeth Bishop:
Form, position & politics

Some recent visitors ???
Where this blog reaches

Gender disparity 
in poetry blogs?

Multi-voiced poetries:
Rodrigo Toscano & Divya Victor

The Anthony Braxton Sextet:
Tri-Centric jazz

The meaning of linebreaks
& especially of soft ones

The death of Nadia Anjuman

Soft enjambment:
the role of linebreaks in the poetry of
Alan Dugan & Jimmy Schuyler

The Apprentice:
A novel by I. Lewis Libby

My Quietist youth ???
A poem written when I was 20

The focus of history ???
The school of quietude moment on campus
1945-1960

Doings:
Assorted performance pieces
by Jackson Mac Low 
(his happiest book)

Fact-based drama ???
Why Monster, Good Night, & Good Luck
and Dog Day Afternoon
are the same motion picture


http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 08:22:24 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:22:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Woodland Pattern article in Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
Message-ID: <20051114132224.99614.qmail@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Many chapters ahead for bookstore
Last Updated: Nov. 12, 2005
Bookmarks



Geeta Sharma-Jensen
E-MAIL  |  ARCHIVE

	 

The amazing thing about the small, scruffy and scrappy bookstore and
gallery that we know as Woodland Pattern Book Center in Riverwest is
not that it's there, but that it's there - still.

It looks like it won't be closing shop anytime soon, either.

The bookstore has endured for 25 years, and like the postal service,
it refuses to let either rain or snow or giant bookstores or rank
capitalism or the Internet or a consolidating publishing industry
keep it from its mission.

"For twenty-five years Woodland Pattern has celebrated the
contemporary imagination and, thanks to your support, will continue
to do so . . . " it vowed quietly in small print in its November
newsletter.

And last week, as it prepared for its 25th anniversary celebrations,
its director Anne Kingsbury - she's been running the place at least
as long - sat in an armchair among the wobbly book stacks and
promised again that Woodland Pattern would continue "celebrating the
imagination," and that's how it would survive, would hope to survive.
61346Woodland Pattern Book Center

Click to enlarge

Photo/File

Karl Gartung and Anne Kingsbury met when she was a teacher and he was
her student. They moved to Milwaukee and in 1980 opened the decidedly
out of the mainstream Woodland Pattern Book Center.
25th Anniversary Events
Nov. 18: Writers Lisa Jarnot, Terri Kapsalis, Peggy Hong, filmmaker
Jennifer Montgomery; readings and a screening
Nov. 19: Writers Keith Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Roberto Harrison,
Kiki Anderson; readings
Nov. 20: Wanda Coleman, Martha Bergland; readings
Nov. 20: Emcee Hal Rammel

"We've always wanted not necessarily to be the biggest, just the
best," she said. "I think what makes us a little different from other
literary centers is that we've presented different art forms where it
intersects with text or literature.

"As new things (such as the Internet) open up, we want to be open and
free to investigate that. But I guess literature and the world where
it crosses into other things - that's what we want to celebrate. We
want to get past the idea that people are creative only in one thing
. . . The poet Derek Walcott, for instance, is also a very
accomplished painter."

So, the center, which stocks around 27,000 books for sale, has also
curated art shows, hosted jazz musicians, held poetry slams, taught
neighborhood children how to tell stories, given lessons in making
books, invited major writers to read, invited obscure writers to
read, and even reserved a section of its shelves for Wisconsin
writers who have self-published their work.

The center's anniversary celebrations will be no different. They
begin Friday evening with readings and a film, and continue through
the weekend with writing workshops, readings by poets and fiction
writers and a concert of new music in Milwaukee that Woodland Pattern
is slyly billing as "25th Anniversary Waltz (without the waltz)."

In the center's gallery is "The Bright Glade," a visual and text
exhibit by the poet Thomas A. Clark and his wife, Laurie.

Here, last week, Kingsbury paused at the threshold of the gallery as
"The Bright Glade" lay in various stages of completion. Painted on
one whitewashed wall was the phrase "a domed vest of bracken, leaf
debris and moss." There were other phrases on other walls - to be
read / seen with the visuals. In the center of the room a young woman
sat on a rolled-up carpet and directed a group of giggling and
shouting grade school students in performing stories.

"This is what I'm talking about," Kingsbury said.
Kept his day job

While many smaller bookstores across the country have fallen victim
to competition from mega chains such as Barnes & Noble, Woodland
Pattern has survived - or "managed" as Kingsbury says - for three
reasons.

First, it has never strayed from its niche; it remains a powerhouse
of poetry and small presses. Second, as a long-time non-profit center
that actively takes its programs to the community, it has been
fortunate enough to find some support from arts boards and private
foundations each year. And third, because Kingsbury and her husband,
Karl Gartung, both passionate book and art lovers, doggedly refuse to
let the tiny store they turned into a non-profit book center founder.

"Well, Karl has always kept his job driving trucks," Kingsbury said.
"So that has been an underground subsidy. He had to get a day job for
insurance, benefits. And you know, Karl and I own this building - we
bought it in 1980 and we fixed it - and if Woodland Pattern cannot
pay rent sometimes, well -. " She shrugged, then smiling, added,
"Well, no one is going to foreclose on them."

Kingsbury is an idealistic, enduring woman, her tenacity softened by
a smile and a pair of nearly waist-length braids hanging below
precisely trimmed bangs.

She prods and persuades, hunts for funding sources, draws up charts
and projections in her daily battles to stay afloat. And she often
credits her husband, a poet and volunteer coordinator of the center's
literary programs, with setting the tone and vision of the center
early on.

The pair met in the mid-1960s when Kingsbury was teaching visual arts
at a college in Nebraska and Gartung, about three years younger, was
a student in her class. Gartung, she has remembered, cut a lot of
classes so she had to have "a little talk" with him. After that, he
did well enough on the final to make up for his earlier trespasses,
so she gave him a "C."

That was supposed to be the end of it, but after he graduated they
began dating. They married in 1970 and moved to Milwaukee a few years
later when she got a job at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
Passion for poetry

Gartung always had a passion for poetry, and it soon became important
for him to find the works of good, new poets who may not have been
well-known.

When the opportunity came to manage a small bookstore - about 100
books - that three Milwaukee poetry lovers had started in the lobby
of Theater X, he took the job.

That's how he discovered Lorine Niedecker, the Wisconsin poet whose
centenary Woodland Pattern celebrated in 2003 with a conference that
attracted participants from several countries, including the United
Kingdom and Japan.

When Kingsbury was denied tenure at UWM, Gartung went to work as a
truck driver and Kingsbury took over his job at the bookstore.

Soon, the original three founders of the small store moved on to
other ventures; Kingsbury stayed.

By 1980, the couple had moved the store to 720 E. Locust St., its
present address, and achieved non-profit status. They began calling
the new entity Woodland Pattern, after the fictional Midwest cultural
center in Paul Metcalf's epic poem "Apalache."

"We started with less than a thousand books," Kingsbury said. "One
thing that really helped us was that Truck Distribution, which
distributed small press literature, let us take books on consignment.
For quite a few years we were able to build our inventory with that.
It allowed us to build with books we hadn't heard about.

"We've always felt that the small presses are where exciting work is
published. We felt there was a need for a place where these books
could be found. We believed what we had to offer was extremely
important for people. A lot of it is education. It needs to be here.

"I've always felt that people need to be able to choose. So we say
here are some things that you should try out - and you may find a
contemporary classic."
National in scope

Kingsbury and Gartung tried out their multimedia approach their first
year as the new Woodland Pattern center.

That year, 1980, Paul Metcalf gave the store's first poetry reading,
Tom Palazzolo was the first visiting filmmaker, Laurie Anderson was
the first performance artist, and Milwaukeean Jill Sebastian was the
first exhibiting visual artist.

Since then, the center has brought in a host of artists and writers,
among them such exiles as Chinese poet Bei Dao, and in 1995 it
organized its first poetry marathon with 90 Milwaukee writers
participating.

Its work has been noticed; the center is now considered one of the
foremost stores for poetry, especially new poetry, in the nation.

"The reputation of Woodland Pattern is itself national in scope, and
I know of no other center - anywhere in the U.S. - that has carried
on a more intricate and demanding program in the literary arts,"
wrote writer Jerome Rothenberg in 1989.

That reputation, Kingsbury hopes, will help the center secure funds
to keep its four full-time and two part-time employees and continue
its programs.

The revenue from the store might pay for one of those positions,
Kingsbury said.

"It's been touch-and-go many times, many times," she added. "But
we're very appreciative - because when one thing ends we find
something else opens up."

And so, Kingsbury remains calm - and sustained.


From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Nov 14 10:02:55 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:02:55 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Woodland Pattern article in Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
In-Reply-To: <20051114132224.99614.qmail@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF9E033F.15B50%grahamd@ripon.edu>

An article about one of the great remaining independent bookstores, which
is, as the article says, "a powerhouse of poetry and small presses."
Milwaukee's pride & joy.

(Thanks to Ron Silliman for calling my attention to the article.)

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================

Many chapters ahead for bookstore
Last Updated: Nov. 12, 2005
Bookmarks



Geeta Sharma-Jensen
E-MAIL  |  ARCHIVE

     

The amazing thing about the small, scruffy and scrappy bookstore and
gallery that we know as Woodland Pattern Book Center in Riverwest is
not that it's there, but that it's there - still.

It looks like it won't be closing shop anytime soon, either.

The bookstore has endured for 25 years, and like the postal service,
it refuses to let either rain or snow or giant bookstores or rank
capitalism or the Internet or a consolidating publishing industry
keep it from its mission.

"For twenty-five years Woodland Pattern has celebrated the
contemporary imagination and, thanks to your support, will continue
to do so . . . " it vowed quietly in small print in its November
newsletter.

And last week, as it prepared for its 25th anniversary celebrations,
its director Anne Kingsbury - she's been running the place at least
as long - sat in an armchair among the wobbly book stacks and
promised again that Woodland Pattern would continue "celebrating the
imagination," and that's how it would survive, would hope to survive.
61346Woodland Pattern Book Center

Click to enlarge

Photo/File

Karl Gartung and Anne Kingsbury met when she was a teacher and he was
her student. They moved to Milwaukee and in 1980 opened the decidedly
out of the mainstream Woodland Pattern Book Center.
25th Anniversary Events
Nov. 18: Writers Lisa Jarnot, Terri Kapsalis, Peggy Hong, filmmaker
Jennifer Montgomery; readings and a screening
Nov. 19: Writers Keith Waldrop, Rosmarie Waldrop, Roberto Harrison,
Kiki Anderson; readings
Nov. 20: Wanda Coleman, Martha Bergland; readings
Nov. 20: Emcee Hal Rammel

"We've always wanted not necessarily to be the biggest, just the
best," she said. "I think what makes us a little different from other
literary centers is that we've presented different art forms where it
intersects with text or literature.

"As new things (such as the Internet) open up, we want to be open and
free to investigate that. But I guess literature and the world where
it crosses into other things - that's what we want to celebrate. We
want to get past the idea that people are creative only in one thing
. . . The poet Derek Walcott, for instance, is also a very
accomplished painter."

So, the center, which stocks around 27,000 books for sale, has also
curated art shows, hosted jazz musicians, held poetry slams, taught
neighborhood children how to tell stories, given lessons in making
books, invited major writers to read, invited obscure writers to
read, and even reserved a section of its shelves for Wisconsin
writers who have self-published their work.

The center's anniversary celebrations will be no different. They
begin Friday evening with readings and a film, and continue through
the weekend with writing workshops, readings by poets and fiction
writers and a concert of new music in Milwaukee that Woodland Pattern
is slyly billing as "25th Anniversary Waltz (without the waltz)."

In the center's gallery is "The Bright Glade," a visual and text
exhibit by the poet Thomas A. Clark and his wife, Laurie.

Here, last week, Kingsbury paused at the threshold of the gallery as
"The Bright Glade" lay in various stages of completion. Painted on
one whitewashed wall was the phrase "a domed vest of bracken, leaf
debris and moss." There were other phrases on other walls - to be
read / seen with the visuals. In the center of the room a young woman
sat on a rolled-up carpet and directed a group of giggling and
shouting grade school students in performing stories.

"This is what I'm talking about," Kingsbury said.
Kept his day job

While many smaller bookstores across the country have fallen victim
to competition from mega chains such as Barnes & Noble, Woodland
Pattern has survived - or "managed" as Kingsbury says - for three
reasons.

First, it has never strayed from its niche; it remains a powerhouse
of poetry and small presses. Second, as a long-time non-profit center
that actively takes its programs to the community, it has been
fortunate enough to find some support from arts boards and private
foundations each year. And third, because Kingsbury and her husband,
Karl Gartung, both passionate book and art lovers, doggedly refuse to
let the tiny store they turned into a non-profit book center founder.

"Well, Karl has always kept his job driving trucks," Kingsbury said.
"So that has been an underground subsidy. He had to get a day job for
insurance, benefits. And you know, Karl and I own this building - we
bought it in 1980 and we fixed it - and if Woodland Pattern cannot
pay rent sometimes, well -. " She shrugged, then smiling, added,
"Well, no one is going to foreclose on them."

Kingsbury is an idealistic, enduring woman, her tenacity softened by
a smile and a pair of nearly waist-length braids hanging below
precisely trimmed bangs.

She prods and persuades, hunts for funding sources, draws up charts
and projections in her daily battles to stay afloat. And she often
credits her husband, a poet and volunteer coordinator of the center's
literary programs, with setting the tone and vision of the center
early on.

The pair met in the mid-1960s when Kingsbury was teaching visual arts
at a college in Nebraska and Gartung, about three years younger, was
a student in her class. Gartung, she has remembered, cut a lot of
classes so she had to have "a little talk" with him. After that, he
did well enough on the final to make up for his earlier trespasses,
so she gave him a "C."

That was supposed to be the end of it, but after he graduated they
began dating. They married in 1970 and moved to Milwaukee a few years
later when she got a job at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
Passion for poetry

Gartung always had a passion for poetry, and it soon became important
for him to find the works of good, new poets who may not have been
well-known.

When the opportunity came to manage a small bookstore - about 100
books - that three Milwaukee poetry lovers had started in the lobby
of Theater X, he took the job.

That's how he discovered Lorine Niedecker, the Wisconsin poet whose
centenary Woodland Pattern celebrated in 2003 with a conference that
attracted participants from several countries, including the United
Kingdom and Japan.

When Kingsbury was denied tenure at UWM, Gartung went to work as a
truck driver and Kingsbury took over his job at the bookstore.

Soon, the original three founders of the small store moved on to
other ventures; Kingsbury stayed.

By 1980, the couple had moved the store to 720 E. Locust St., its
present address, and achieved non-profit status. They began calling
the new entity Woodland Pattern, after the fictional Midwest cultural
center in Paul Metcalf's epic poem "Apalache."

"We started with less than a thousand books," Kingsbury said. "One
thing that really helped us was that Truck Distribution, which
distributed small press literature, let us take books on consignment.
For quite a few years we were able to build our inventory with that.
It allowed us to build with books we hadn't heard about.

"We've always felt that the small presses are where exciting work is
published. We felt there was a need for a place where these books
could be found. We believed what we had to offer was extremely
important for people. A lot of it is education. It needs to be here.

"I've always felt that people need to be able to choose. So we say
here are some things that you should try out - and you may find a
contemporary classic."
National in scope

Kingsbury and Gartung tried out their multimedia approach their first
year as the new Woodland Pattern center.

That year, 1980, Paul Metcalf gave the store's first poetry reading,
Tom Palazzolo was the first visiting filmmaker, Laurie Anderson was
the first performance artist, and Milwaukeean Jill Sebastian was the
first exhibiting visual artist.

Since then, the center has brought in a host of artists and writers,
among them such exiles as Chinese poet Bei Dao, and in 1995 it
organized its first poetry marathon with 90 Milwaukee writers
participating.

Its work has been noticed; the center is now considered one of the
foremost stores for poetry, especially new poetry, in the nation.

"The reputation of Woodland Pattern is itself national in scope, and
I know of no other center - anywhere in the U.S. - that has carried
on a more intricate and demanding program in the literary arts,"
wrote writer Jerome Rothenberg in 1989.

That reputation, Kingsbury hopes, will help the center secure funds
to keep its four full-time and two part-time employees and continue
its programs.

The revenue from the store might pay for one of those positions,
Kingsbury said.

"It's been touch-and-go many times, many times," she added. "But
we're very appreciative - because when one thing ends we find
something else opens up."

And so, Kingsbury remains calm - and sustained.



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Nov 14 10:06:47 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:06:47 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: Woodland Pattern article 
In-Reply-To: <BF9E033F.15B50%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <BF9E0427.15B52%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Sorry for the double posting.  I see that Ron S. had already sent this
article to NewPo.  For some reason his postings are diverted by my mailer
into the wrong folder.

Who knew that Outlook Express gets involved in aesthetic disputes?

In any case, Woodland Pattern deserves all the mentioning it gets. Worth
going out of your way to visit, if you're ever in the upper Midwest.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


----------
From: David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:02:55 -0600
To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: Woodland Pattern article in Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

An article about one of the great remaining independent bookstores, which
is, as the article says, "a powerhouse of poetry and small presses."
Milwaukee's pride & joy.

(Thanks to Ron Silliman for calling my attention to the article.)




From cc at opus0.com  Mon Nov 14 13:28:57 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:28:57 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Santayana, _The Sense of Beauty_2
In-Reply-To: <200511141700.jAEH04M3014441@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJOEICCHAA.cc@opus0.com>

One of my favorite passages in any book:


p17
"The sad business of life is rather to escape certain dreadful evils to
which our nature exposes us,-- death, hunger, disease, weariness, isolation
and contempt.  By the awful authority of these things, which stand like
spectres behind every moral injunction, conscience in reality speaks, and a
mind which they have duly impressed but cannot but feel the hopeless
triviality of the search for pleasure [such as afforded by poetry and art].
It cannot but feel that a life abandoned to amusement and to changing
impulses must run unawares into fatal dangers.  The moment, however, that
society emerges from early pressure of the environment and is tolerably
secure against primary evils, morality grows lax.  The forms that life will
farther assume are not to be imposed by moral authority, but are determined
by the genius of the race, the opporunities of the moment, and the tastes
and resources of individual minds.  The reign of duty gives place to the
reign of freedom, and the law and the covenant to the dispensation of
grace."





From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Nov 14 16:05:38 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:05:38 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: Woodland Pattern article 
References: <BF9E0427.15B52%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <003501c5e95f$2a1f33a0$c7af3252@ANNY>

I have the same problem with Ron Silliman's emails, but he says that they 
land into the right folders on his pc_
whatever, fine with me,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: Woodland Pattern article


> Sorry for the double posting.  I see that Ron S. had already sent this
> article to NewPo.  For some reason his postings are diverted by my mailer
> into the wrong folder.
>
> Who knew that Outlook Express gets involved in aesthetic disputes?
>
> In any case, Woodland Pattern deserves all the mentioning it gets. Worth
> going out of your way to visit, if you're ever in the upper Midwest.
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Nov 14 16:51:07 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:51:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: Woodland Pattern article 
References: <BF9E0427.15B52%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <009901c5e965$852bdc20$6ab831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Sounds like an asset to the poetry community, but--considering those running 
it are interested in pushing the juncture where poetry meets visual art--it 
seems odd that I, with my interest in visual poetry, have never heard of it, 
and that the article says nothing about any visual poetry titles it stocks 
(unless I missed a mention of them in my slapdash skim of the article).

--Bob G. 




From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Nov 14 18:31:12 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:31:12 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Woodland Pattern article 
In-Reply-To: <009901c5e965$852bdc20$6ab831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BF9E7A60.2C27%grahamd@ripon.edu>

I confess that I don't make a beeline to the visual poetry titles when I'm
at Woodland Pattern, and can't cite names and titles.  For that matter, I
don't rush to pull out the newest Ron Silliman.

But Woodland Pattern may be the only bookstore I've ever been in that would
give all three of us--Ron, Bob, and myself-- plenty to enthuse about.  They
do have a particular slant toward experimental stuff and multicultural
material, with a strong section on Native American poets, among other
riches.  But they also stock books by all manner of small and university
presses.   About the only thing you won't reliably find there are mainstream
poets who are likely to be featured at Borders:  e.g. Billy Collins, Seamus
Heaney.



On 11/14/05 3:51 PM, "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:

> Sounds like an asset to the poetry community, but--considering those running
> it are interested in pushing the juncture where poetry meets visual art--it
> seems odd that I, with my interest in visual poetry, have never heard of it,
> and that the article says nothing about any visual poetry titles it stocks
> (unless I missed a mention of them in my slapdash skim of the article).
> 
> --Bob G. 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Nov 14 20:00:12 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:00:12 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Galway at 78
Message-ID: <1a7.43fcf24a.30aa8d1c@aol.com>

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/11/14_edgerlym_galwaykinne
ll/
 
Poet Galway Kinnell reflects on mortality
by Mike Edgerly, Minnesota Public Radio
November 14, 2005 
 
 
Poet Galway Kinnell. (MPR Photo/Mike Edgerly) 
 
 
St. Paul, Minn. ? "Mortality makes everything worth more to us," says Galway 
Kinnell. 
 
In his 12 volumes of poetry, Kinnell, 78, a Pulitzer Prize and National Book 
Award winner, has spent a lot of time writing about mortality -- in sinuous 
poems that weave together the natural world and his own personal history. 
 
Galway Kinnell was born in 1927 in Rhode Island. He has worked as a 
journalist and as a volunteer for the Congress of Racial Equality in the South. His 
1971 book-length poem, "The Book of Nightmares," is based on that experience.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051114/c1c8aa41/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Nov 14 20:24:18 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:24:18 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Woodland Pattern article in Milwaukee
	Journal-Sentinel
Message-ID: <23e.146a015.30aa92c2@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/14/2005 10:03:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:
"The reputation of Woodland Pattern is itself national in scope, and
I know of no other center - anywhere in the U.S. - that has carried
on a more intricate and demanding program in the literary arts,"
wrote writer Jerome Rothenberg in 1989.

That reputation, Kingsbury hopes, will help the center secure funds
to keep its four full-time and two part-time employees and continue
its programs.
I've heard of the place...but somehow in all my bizness travels
I've not been to Milwaukee. Next time I'm in Chicago I may take
a half day off and drive up there. 

I like the model: it's bookstore cum art center. I think this might
the be way more indepedents struggling for survival should move;
go non-profit and widen the mission to community arts activism.
Of course, like a lot of literary/arts projects, it's probably 99% 
the dint and grit of the people behind this venture that really keeps 
it going. 

Do you think a small city like Milwaukee ends up producing
better poets (and artists) when it has this kind of resource
in its midst? I know Hartford could use this kind of place.
Finnegan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051114/737c31d4/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Tue Nov 15 20:09:19 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:09:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Heather McHugh
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511151709i13bda28bs9b91d456a1f29947@mail.gmail.com>

Heather McHugh read here at UGA today after giving a master class (which I
was priveleged to attend) this morning.
 I found her a wonderful teacher and speaker, someone who truly loves
poetry. She spoke at length about the "ineffable" qualities of poetry--that
unmeasurable *something* that good poetry addresses. I found myself nodding
in agreement with much of what she said, though I've never really been a big
fan. The poem below is an older one, apparently. However, I'd never read it.
Hope that you enjoy.
 Jeff Newberry
  What He Thought
Heather McHugh
 We were supposed to do a job in Italy
and, full of our feeling for
ourselves (our sense of being
Poets from America) we went
from Rome to Fano, met
the Mayor, mulled a couple
matters over. "What does mean this 'flat drink?' someone asked.
What is "cheap date?" (Nothing we said lessened
this one's mystery). Among Italian writers we

could recognize our counterparts: the academic,
the apologist, the arrogant, the amorous,
the brazen and the glib. And there was one
administrator (The Conservative), in suit
of regulation gray, who like a good tour guide
with measured pace and uninflected tone
narrated sights and histories
the hired van hauled us past.
Of all he was most politic--
and least poetic-- so
it seemed. Our last
few days in Rome
I found a book of poems this
unprepossessing one had written: it was there
in the pensione room (a room he'd recommended)
where it must have been abandoned by
the German visitor (was there a bus of them?) to whom
he had inscribed and dated it a month before. I couldn't
read Italian either, so I put the book
back in the wardrobe's dark. We last Americans

were due to leave
tomorrow. For our parting evening then
our host chose something in a family restaurant,
and there we sat and chatted, sat and chewed, till,
sensible it was our last big chance to be Poetic, make
our mark, one of us asked

"What's poetry?
Is it the fruits and vegetables
and marketplace at Campo dei Fiori

or the statue there?" Because I was
the glib one, I identified the answer
instantly, I didn't have to think-- "The truth
is both, it's both!" I blurted out. But that
was easy. That was easiest
to say. What followed taught me something
about difficulty,

for our underestimated host spoke out
all of a sudden, with a rising passion, and he said:
 The statue represents
Giordano Bruno, brought
to be burned in the public square
because of his offence against authority, which was to say
the Church. His crime was his belief
the universe does not revolve around
the human being: God is no
fixed point or central government
but rather is poured in waves, through
all things: all things
move. "If God is not the soul itself,
he is the soul OF THE SOUL of the world." Such was
his heresy. The day they brought him forth to die

they feared he might incite the crowd (the man
was famous for his eloquence). And so his captors
placed upon his face
an iron mask
in which he could not speak.

That is how they burned him.
That is how he died,
without a word,
in front of everyone. And poetry--

(we'd all put down our forks by now, to listen to
the man in gray; he went on softly)-- poetry

is what he thought, but did not say.
 from *Hinge and Sign: Poems 1968-1993* (Wesleyan UP, 1994)
      --
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051115/4416339e/attachment.html>

From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk  Wed Nov 16 06:04:08 2005
From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:04:08 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] poetic genes
In-Reply-To: <20051113183354.1D83213CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com>
References: <20051113183354.1D83213CEA@smapp02.siteprotect.com>
Message-ID: <1132139048.437b12283f797@webmail.ukonline.net>

Like any other occuptation, literature runs in families - children inherit a 
lively toolkit, imbibe verbal games around the table, take their notion of a 
way of living from their parents, and are gifted a ready-made set of contacts.

Though it's true that the children of major writers are often minor writers, 
it's also true that the parents of major writers are often minor writers. 
Writing in the obscurity of private life, before the family luminary clears 
the horizon, their works are rarely exposed, but I think it would be a 
fascinating subject for an anthology. I'd love to sample the letters of 
Proust's mother and the epics of Browning's father. 



----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov 16 07:47:30 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:47:30 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Today's choice of Garrison Keillor
Message-ID: <007a01c5eaab$e84dd7d0$65e03652@ANNY>

Poem: "Ten Degrees" by Tom Chandler from Sad Jazz.? Table Rock Books 2003. Lincoln, Rhode Island. Reprinted with permission.

Ten Degrees

How beautiful the sun as it skims
across the air in the hush of ten degrees,
disc of palest yellow hope along a sky

of circumstance; how beautifully we watch it fall,
the random tern, forgotten mole,
the infant tree inside rough winter bark.

How beautiful this frost, female fingers
tracing down the glass, how beautiful
this world too cold to criticize itself;

how beautiful Earth's creatures are, happy
and forever safe from the only perfect tragedy,
which is of course to never have been born. 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051116/70fca6d3/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov 16 07:53:19 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:53:19 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Heather McHugh
References: <731bb17a0511151709i13bda28bs9b91d456a1f29947@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008b01c5eaac$b890f7b0$65e03652@ANNY>

Giordano Bruno is one of the saddest people in history, and the pain _physical, mental and emotional_ he had to endure goes beyond my capacity of accepting it. 

I do not know Heather McHugh, but there is something in this poem that disturbs me deeply, the last lines:

That is how they burned him.
That is how he died, 
without a word,
in front of everyone. And poetry--

(we'd all put down our forks by now, to listen to
the man in gray; he went on softly)-- poetry 

is what he thought, but did not say.

Isn't she also forcing Giordano Bruno to say something he did not say? This my impression this morning when I first read it. Wouldn't it have been more correct to say, for example

....-- poetry

I think, is what he might have thought,
but did not say.

or similar, I would have appreciated it and would have got much closer to the author.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Newberry 
  To: NewPoetry 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 2:09 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Heather McHugh


  Heather McHugh read here at UGA today after giving a master class (which I was priveleged to attend) this morning.

  I found her a wonderful teacher and speaker, someone who truly loves poetry.  She spoke at length about the "ineffable" qualities of poetry--that unmeasurable *something* that good poetry addresses.  I found myself nodding in agreement with much of what she said, though I've never really been a big fan.  The poem below is an older one, apparently.  However, I'd never read it.  Hope that you enjoy. 

  Jeff Newberry


  What He Thought
  Heather McHugh

  We were supposed to do a job in Italy
  and, full of our feeling for
  ourselves (our sense of being
  Poets from America) we went
  from Rome to Fano, met
  the Mayor, mulled a couple
  matters over. "What does mean this 'flat drink?' someone asked. 
  What is "cheap date?" (Nothing we said lessened
  this one's mystery). Among Italian writers we

  could recognize our counterparts: the academic,
  the apologist, the arrogant, the amorous,
  the brazen and the glib. And there was one 
  administrator (The Conservative), in suit
  of regulation gray, who like a good tour guide
  with measured pace and uninflected tone
  narrated sights and histories
  the hired van hauled us past.
  Of all he was most politic-- 
  and least poetic-- so
  it seemed. Our last
  few days in Rome 
  I found a book of poems this
  unprepossessing one had written: it was there
  in the pensione room (a room he'd recommended)
  where it must have been abandoned by 
  the German visitor (was there a bus of them?) to whom
  he had inscribed and dated it a month before. I couldn't
  read Italian either, so I put the book
  back in the wardrobe's dark. We last Americans

  were due to leave 
  tomorrow. For our parting evening then
  our host chose something in a family restaurant,
  and there we sat and chatted, sat and chewed, till,
  sensible it was our last big chance to be Poetic, make
  our mark, one of us asked 

  "What's poetry?
  Is it the fruits and vegetables
  and marketplace at Campo dei Fiori

  or the statue there?" Because I was
  the glib one, I identified the answer
  instantly, I didn't have to think-- "The truth 
  is both, it's both!" I blurted out. But that
  was easy. That was easiest
  to say. What followed taught me something
  about difficulty, 

  for our underestimated host spoke out
  all of a sudden, with a rising passion, and he said: 
   
  The statue represents
  Giordano Bruno, brought
  to be burned in the public square
  because of his offence against authority, which was to say
  the Church. His crime was his belief
  the universe does not revolve around 
  the human being: God is no
  fixed point or central government
  but rather is poured in waves, through
  all things: all things
  move. "If God is not the soul itself,
  he is the soul OF THE SOUL of the world." Such was 
  his heresy. The day they brought him forth to die

  they feared he might incite the crowd (the man
  was famous for his eloquence). And so his captors
  placed upon his face
  an iron mask
  in which he could not speak. 

  That is how they burned him.
  That is how he died, 
  without a word,
  in front of everyone. And poetry--

  (we'd all put down our forks by now, to listen to
  the man in gray; he went on softly)-- poetry 

  is what he thought, but did not say.
   
  from Hinge and Sign:  Poems 1968-1993 (Wesleyan UP, 1994)






  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno

  Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/ 

   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051116/bdc942e7/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 13:55:15 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:55:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Keillor/Kleinzahler Feud
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511161055p4b9ec437m1fb5626bbbb61471@mail.gmail.com>

"In late 2002, the radio host Garrison Keillor committed an act of
inadvertent but undeniable depravity: he published a poetry anthology for
average readers that sold pretty well. Anthologies are often troubling for
poets (who likes being left out?), and many serious writers are ambivalent
about popular success, but the combination of these concerns - a popular
anthology - can create a near perfect storm of psychic distress."
David Orr on the Keillor/Kleinzahler
Feud<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/books/review/13orr.html>(
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/books/review/13orr.html)
 Jeff Newberry

--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
--Miguel de Unamuno

Blog: http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051116/5aadc108/attachment.html>

From chan_jt at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 16 20:03:29 2005
From: chan_jt at hotmail.com (JT Chan)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:03:29 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] new issue of zine
Message-ID: <BAY23-F26F9ECE6651C677609C3608A5F0@phx.gbl>

hi,

PoetrySz:demystifying mental illness Issue 18 which features work from the 
US, UK, Australia, Macedonia is now online for viewing at 
http://www.poetrysz.net .

Submissions for subsequent issues are welcome. Please read the guidelines 
first.  Send 4-6 poems, and a short contributor's note to poetrysz at yahoo.com 
.

Thanks.

regards

J Chan
editor, PoetrySz

_________________________________________________________________
Discover fun and games at  @  http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids



From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Wed Nov 16 20:31:17 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:31:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] bishop
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BF0@mail.emerson.edu>

Silliman had a note on his blog about Elizabeth
Bishop which says something like she should have 
colabbed with Creeley or Tom Clark instead of
Lowell. . .

I wanted to comment on it but his comment section
only allows pee-ays to rant their piece, not peons 
like me. . .

so i'll post a few thoughts here where i am allowed
at least for the nonce to blither about. . .

none of the commentators there mention something which
must be taken into consideration about Bishop, namely
the inherited wealth which enabled her trust-funded
travels and the leisure time to write the 83 poems 
she completed over a period of forty years or so. . .  
most poets couldn't (can't) afford such a lifestyle. . . 
surely her affinity with Lowell had something to do with 
class as well as mutual admiration?  

and the 83 poems . . . thinking of those whose 
oeuvres are similarly slender (Mallarme, Eliot, what
others am I forgetting?), what makes such poets so 
scrupulous, so lapidarian in their process?   Think of 
Ashbery's putative Complete Poems, what is it, two
thousand pages by now?   A thousand poems,
and what, 83 of them might last?  So what's the 
difference, what makes one poet write eighty three
poems while another knocks off eight hundred and
thirty?  What are the causative factors?  

.....



-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3163 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051116/ecfe6387/attachment.bin>

From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk  Thu Nov 17 04:27:43 2005
From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:27:43 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] bishop
In-Reply-To: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BF0@mail.emerson.edu>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BF0@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <1132219663.437c4d0f2c3a1@webmail.ukonline.net>

I absolutely agree about the relevance of the class element and Bishop's 
acceptance of Bobby was no doubt eased by their common background. 

Whether inherited wealth should be by inference a relevant critique of 
someone's poem is problematic. Nearly everyone who is born in the west 
inherits wealth to some extent - compared e.g. with a Somali. I believe this 
does problematize our poetry but I also reflect that in countries that are in 
survival conditions art of any kind is minimal. 

But Bishop's lack of day-job gave her opportunities, too. And a great deal of 
western literature has been written by people who didn't have to work - 
Proust, Congreve, Coleridge, Byron, Shelley, Eliz Barrett, Yeats, Wyatt, 
Sevigne, Virgil, Ovid and Horace to scrape the suface. 

If you write 2000 pages they ought all to be good - as solidly good as the 
10,000 pages of Dickens' novels, for instance. But copiousness becomes 
habitual. What I like about a sparse output like Bishop's is that a lot of 
readers get to know and love all of it - it forms a community of shared 
interest. 




Quoting William Knott <William_Knott at emerson.edu>:

> Silliman had a note on his blog about Elizabeth
> Bishop which says something like she should have 
> colabbed with Creeley or Tom Clark instead of
> Lowell. . .
> 
> I wanted to comment on it but his comment section
> only allows pee-ays to rant their piece, not peons 
> like me. . .
> 
> so i'll post a few thoughts here where i am allowed
> at least for the nonce to blither about. . .
> 
> none of the commentators there mention something which
> must be taken into consideration about Bishop, namely
> the inherited wealth which enabled her trust-funded
> travels and the leisure time to write the 83 poems 
> she completed over a period of forty years or so. . .  
> most poets couldn't (can't) afford such a lifestyle. . . 
> surely her affinity with Lowell had something to do with 
> class as well as mutual admiration?  
> 
> and the 83 poems . . . thinking of those whose 
> oeuvres are similarly slender (Mallarme, Eliot, what
> others am I forgetting?), what makes such poets so 
> scrupulous, so lapidarian in their process?   Think of 
> Ashbery's putative Complete Poems, what is it, two
> thousand pages by now?   A thousand poems,
> and what, 83 of them might last?  So what's the 
> difference, what makes one poet write eighty three
> poems while another knocks off eight hundred and
> thirty?  What are the causative factors?  
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> 
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net


From cc at opus0.com  Thu Nov 17 14:21:51 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:21:51 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: bishop
In-Reply-To: <200511171700.jAHH04M3018067@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJMEKDCHAA.cc@opus0.com>

As Santayana points out, beauty is rarely contemplated without distraction--
Seems to me a misuse of the tremendous wealth in the USA that so little of
it frees anyone to esthetic contemplation and action.  Most money is busy
making more money.  I have just completed 16 years in the working world, and
have succeeded in freeing myself from it to return to my native
action/contemplation.  I have no trust fund, but have been lucky and
diligent.  I'm proud of this accomplishment, but would rather have the 16
years than the accomplishment.  I hate the esthetic ignorance and stupidity
of USA (which I distinguish in one who doesn't know by the presence or the
lack of desire to learn, respectively), and I think that history will not be
kind to us.  "They invented new gizmos and built tall shiny buildings.  They
considered art a waste of time.  They spent more than they had and expected
to do so indefinitely."

Notions of class seem outmoded to me, maybe because I grew up in the west,
not on the east coast.  Although European aristocrats used to be an artistic
class, this is no longer true-- at least I have no experience of it being
true.  And I did attend a black tie wedding once in Brooklyn.  Why read
Byron (much less Bishop and Lowell) when you can pop a DVD in the home
theatre system?



> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:27:43 +0000
> From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] bishop
>
> I absolutely agree about the relevance of the class element and Bishop's
> acceptance of Bobby was no doubt eased by their common background.
>
> Whether inherited wealth should be by inference a relevant critique of
> someone's poem is problematic. Nearly everyone who is born in the west
> inherits wealth to some extent - compared e.g. with a Somali. I
> believe this
> does problematize our poetry but I also reflect that in countries
> that are in
> survival conditions art of any kind is minimal.
>
> But Bishop's lack of day-job gave her opportunities, too. And a
> great deal of
> western literature has been written by people who didn't have to work -
> Proust, Congreve, Coleridge, Byron, Shelley, Eliz Barrett, Yeats, Wyatt,
> Sevigne, Virgil, Ovid and Horace to scrape the suface.
>
> If you write 2000 pages they ought all to be good - as solidly
> good as the
> 10,000 pages of Dickens' novels, for instance. But copiousness becomes
> habitual. What I like about a sparse output like Bishop's is that
> a lot of
> readers get to know and love all of it - it forms a community of shared
> interest.
>
>
>
>
> Quoting William Knott <William_Knott at emerson.edu>:
>
> > Silliman had a note on his blog about Elizabeth
> > Bishop which says something like she should have
> > colabbed with Creeley or Tom Clark instead of
> > Lowell. . .
> >
> > I wanted to comment on it but his comment section
> > only allows pee-ays to rant their piece, not peons
> > like me. . .
> >
> > so i'll post a few thoughts here where i am allowed
> > at least for the nonce to blither about. . .
> >
> > none of the commentators there mention something which
> > must be taken into consideration about Bishop, namely
> > the inherited wealth which enabled her trust-funded
> > travels and the leisure time to write the 83 poems
> > she completed over a period of forty years or so. . .
> > most poets couldn't (can't) afford such a lifestyle. . .
> > surely her affinity with Lowell had something to do with
> > class as well as mutual admiration?
> >
> > and the 83 poems . . . thinking of those whose
> > oeuvres are similarly slender (Mallarme, Eliot, what
> > others am I forgetting?), what makes such poets so
> > scrupulous, so lapidarian in their process?   Think of
> > Ashbery's putative Complete Poems, what is it, two
> > thousand pages by now?   A thousand poems,
> > and what, 83 of them might last?  So what's the
> > difference, what makes one poet write eighty three
> > poems while another knocks off eight hundred and
> > thirty?  What are the causative factors?
> >
> > .....
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 17, Issue 17
> ******************************************
>
>




From ASurkont at localnet.com  Thu Nov 17 14:52:16 2005
From: ASurkont at localnet.com (Amanda Surkont)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:52:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dodge Festival
In-Reply-To: <731bb17a0511161055p4b9ec437m1fb5626bbbb61471@mail.gmail.com>
References: <731bb17a0511161055p4b9ec437m1fb5626bbbb61471@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <437CDF70.20600@localnet.com>

Coming out of lurk mode just to say I am thrilled the Dodge Festival is 
returning to Waterloo.

Best to all,
manda





From hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Nov 17 15:02:21 2005
From: hammerword2000 at yahoo.co.uk (gbemi tijani-mst)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:02:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] public lecture review-lessons my mother taught me in
	an era of globalised medicine-prof i.o.olopase
Message-ID: <20051117200222.254.qmail@web26011.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

    
   
   
   
  Friday 11 Nov.2005, Ibadan, Nigeria, West Africa
  Ref: COLLEGE OF MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY OF IBADAN, NIGERIA-public lecture:
   Subject: LESSONS MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME IN AN ERA OF GLOBALISED MEDICNE - PROF. FUNMI OLOPADE- MACARTHUR GENIUS GRANT FELLOW 
  Medico-Poetic Aspects Review by GBEMI TIJANI-MST        Key words:
       * Memoir of a genius researcher- 
   Culture and immuno-chemistry in breast cancer research in   African - American women
    *Trends, triumphs thru new tech in digital imagery, chemotherapy
  ?        Breast cancer is now 99% curable but requires patience
  ?         Consistent Patients Compliance & appropriate therapies                    
    
   Nature, nurture & genetic output  
   Reducing inequalities in health care access  
   Advocacy,cancer research support
           *   Tips for healthy living: 
                         Eat well,
                         Exercise your body,                        
                         Exercise your mind,
                          Serve others   
   
  I think of you, old friend 
  so far away, so ill,
  of how I'd love to have
  you listening with me,
  though with every 
  passage you are with
   
  me, always with me,
  as music we cherish
  is always with us, only
  waiting to be ascended
  to again, to confirm
  again there'll always
   
  be these counterpoints
  of memory and love,
  unflawed by absence
  or sorrow; this music
  we hear, this other,
  richer still, we are
   
  ? C.K. Williams, "Elegy for an Artist (for Bruce McGrew)" 
   
  POETS,PHYSICIANS,PASTORS AND MORTALITY   
  Life is surely the treasury of living.
  Death is already known by man as a necessary end but nothing is as chilling as mortality hanging on one?s head or a beloved relation dying by a terrible dis-ease&shy;- reciting an anthology of unbearable pains on one?s precious peace. Nothing is as macabre if this is a cancer condition. . Could this be one of the candid aspects of life Crisman Cooley dreadfully echoed in the New Poetry of Monday 14 Nov? He poignantly cites Santayana-The Sense of Beauty
  "The sad business of life is rather to escape certain dreadful evils to
  which our nature exposes us,-- death, hunger, disease, weariness, 
  isolation
  and contempt.  By the awful authority of these things, which stand like
  specters behind every moral injunction, conscience in reality speaks??
 
  Joselle Vanderhooft,Pedestal ezine contributor claimed that Americans are unhealthy with their grief and mortality partly dreaded by 93 MILLION deaths estimate for AIDS  by the year 2010 or toll from unhealthy lifesyle-West Africans ought to be equally scared of  the 34 million deaths sharing of the 94 million possible mortality.
  What sort of embarrassing poetry or threnody would C.K. Williams write if he had seen a scan of any form of cancer let alone the lecture slides of Dr I.O. Olapade from her multidisciplinary research team on breast cancer patients of African ?American women? He would likely be perturbed beyond the typical provocation by horror films of incredible scenes. Although his mind was not totally bugled by grief and dying realities he was of course shocked of his ignorance of the skull beneath the skin.
   
   
  No flowers wear so lovely a blue as those
   Which grow at the foot of the frozen glacier
   no stars gleam so brightly as those
   which glisten in the polar sky; 
   no water tastes so sweet as that
   which springs amid the desert sand;
   and no faith is so precious as that
   which lives and triumphs in adversity. 
   Tried faith brings experience.
   
   
  Therefore-
  I?m healed of whatever pathology 
  That the devil sent my way 
  Surely it?s a mere guest 
  It must go its way soonest!
  Why not 

  What alliance has light got with darkness?
  Or what has the temple of God in common with this filth
  Go away!
  Melt away!   From the mirror image of God
   
  I shall live to declare His glory
  I will live to unfurl His splendour 
  As He?s designed transcendently
  To my plight
  I?ve sanctified the caplets
  To my delight-
  He?s bunged the blight
  He?s cleaned up the site
  He?s healed up all the locales
  I?ll manifest this resplendently
  I?m unfettered from the pain!
  I?m made whole again!!
   
  Adapted for all cancer workers and patients and their boosters - Gbemi tijani mst
   
   
  FUNMI-FORMATIVE YEARS  Her mom has had positive impact on her career choice. She too responded and acquired well. She carried her mother?s black melanin cells copiously. She was very good in math and physics ?therefore already dreaming of becoming an engineer. Her beloved mother warily warned her that? you might not find a husband to marry you!? Besides there?s no way you wont get into unpalatable professional conflict when it comes to designing and editing projects with other male colleagues. She assiduously made 49% in the first anatomy examinations- not even an average in the same school she later graduated with distinctions and coveted Sir Manuwa Prize in Medicine.
  Her mother believed so much in her intellect and never thought of any second best for her nor did she think Funmi has been nonchalant in her studies.
   
  ?Go ahead and do medicine?, was her bold comment to this vital initial assessment in the medical school.
  ?If you qualify as a doctor you will be able to appreciate joining a noble profession of scientifically diagnosing diseases, alleviating or annulling pain and prolonging life?, her mother further mollified. Ipinola, as Funmi is fondly called by Medical Women Association of Nigeria-Oyo State Chapter -absorbed this encouragement and till date she ?s not only graduated she?s also continued her love affair with medical oncology in the service of mankind.
   
  No  news any longer that quest and inspiration are mere basics to perspiration and excellence. I now know why this daring and penchant for medical research excellence coupled with the genius genes run in the family uniquely of ?the falusis? and appropriately why they have always chosen the U.I MEDICAL SCHOOL aka UCH as a citadel for breeding world -scientific academics
Barely two years ago Dr. Mrs. Falusi sister?in- law to ?the Olopades? of the universities of Illinois and Chicago was awarded a major Unesco prize for the best woman in science for that year. She?s been involved in genetic and allied sickle-cell research for as long as 20 years ago I discovered her as a researcher at PIMRAT ?now called INSTITUTE OF MEDICAL AND ADVANCED MEDICAL RESEARCH, BIODE BLD U.I. except her husband himself, an agric don that shared stature with E. Latunde ODEKU, T.A.LAMBO, B.O. OSUNTOKUN, T.F. SOLANKE-all late geniuses of the same citadel. The Olopades and Falusis and their siblings are at a
 distance appear physically lithe but are all mentally robust. A casual glance at her gait will mistake her for a nuliparous woman-though academic cadence is well accentuated in this multiparous Nigerian ?born researcher.
   
  *IPINOLA is well known as Dr.Funmi Olopade at the University of Chicago Hospitals where she?s the Founding Director of the Centre for Cancer Genetics and many immuno ?chemical laboratories that are collaborating with her multidisciplinary research. She started learning rudiments of scientific methods and collaborative essentials right from her mother at her formative years back home at Ijebu ?Igbo, a small town that founded Molusi College, one of the few community 6TH FORM institutions of the late ?60s in the then Western State of Nigeria.
   
   
   
   
   
  FUNMI-SPRINGING SURPRISES AT U.OF CHICAGO
  Much more than just championing a new vista in breast cancer treatment through multidisciplinary collaboration she?s also become a teacher of teachers globally. She?s well connected to many scientists globally and also popularizing this approach to make useful discoveries that clearly doesn?t come easy.
  Dr Olopade has published more than 100 research articles notably in collaboration with others. 
  ?We must persevere in our research target just like a sailor that must eventually land safely at the harbour?, she modestly charge the U.C.H.Ibadan dons and diverse medical workers in attendance including her revered surgery teacher (Prof Jide Ajayi) during her undergraduate days

   
  "Because I should not get my vessel into harbour at all 
     if I did not keep to the deep channel."
   So, it may be, you would run aground and suffer shipwreck
  That shouldn?t be our portion at any time. God forbid this!
   
   She stressed that collaboration based on purpose and friendship among the network team could make this endeavour more excitingly expedient and medically productive.
   ?We must start somewhere.? We must think creatively and bring out the genius in us
we can?t afford to wait indefinitely for solutions to bop up as in serendipity. No. We must not gloss over the use of cultural variables to hypothesize experimentally? ?she repeated in a concerned fraternal manner during her research presentation via the slides at the Paul Hendricks Lecture Theater, UCH, Ibadan.
   
  In fact, there?s no variant of cancer that doesn?t scare the patient and her relations! Its malignant forms have defied cure. ?Prior to genetic research and recent advancement in detailed CT applications it was assumed that all breast cancer are estrogen positive ?whereas some patients might present estrogen negative ?which respond to treatment better depending on the victim?s full genetic expression,? Professor I.F.Adewole, Provost, College Of Medicine, University of Ibadan, who?s also co-host of the lecture said during a re-confirmatory chat by this writer -?DO I HEAR WELL THAT BREAST CANCER IS 99% - albeit conditionally -CURABLE?? 
   
  COMPASSION FOR THE POOR
  Much helpless brunt is borne by the poor and the have- nots that can?t even foot ordinary first aid bill let alone cancer r?gime.Dr.Olopade the consummate and compassionate clinical researcher is also playing the role of an advocate with her husband (Prof Sola Olopade) by reducing inequality in genetic services for at risk groups among African-American women.  
   
  However the good news is that this condition is now curable provided the patient can yield to the therapies or have access to appropriate counseling and treatment. She?s also extending the results of her team in molecular genetics   to West African patients under the free access initiative supported byThe Macarthur Foundation.   
   
  If the patients can cope with the treatment methods the world should be able to support medical care cost. As a Unesco 20-year vision ?The World of Education- Today and Tomorrow had said ?Normal man is bound to succeed and the universe is bound to support that success?.
   
   What then is the plum for abnormally dis-eased women?
   
   
  According to Dr Olopade there are now possibilities for cure rather than just prevention or alleviating the pain ?especially in breast cancer therapy. What a marvelous trend compared to the era that cancer cells seldom possessed the understanding, insight, or good grace to accept any innocent havoc they ?re doing to precious humankind. It has wasted many lives prematurely in an African society where men and women are living to 118 years before their peaceful passage.
   
   Bad bye to the supercilious sarcasm it has subjected orthodox medicine until the recent counter armory of herceptin and other chemotherapeutics that medical trials have shown to reduce metastasis considerably and with endurable side effects ?especially for those that can cope as rehearsed by the physicians in charge..
  Dr Olapade?s discoveries have shown that breast cancer is a combination of diseases with different pathological conditions-contrary to earlier knowledge of cancer prognosis. The breast cancer screening she?s championed will popularize awareness, catalyze environmental precautions that need behavioural compliance which is packaged in a synergy gospel for insuring and assuring active and psycho-physical health for the healthy, the ill-health and cancer at risk groups alike.
   
  She conclusively advised:
  Eat well
      Exercise your body
      Exercise your mind
      Serve others
   
  CHALLENGE TO RESEARCH & RESOURCE LINK
  Her research reported recurrent BRCA1, BRCA2 mutations of a breast cancer variant in women of African heritage that aggressively resists chemotherapy ?especially in premenopausal patients from West Africa. Clearly the estrogen positive and negative breast cancer have different genetic pattern based on genetic expressions.
   
  In order not to make the duel between the cancer cells and the well-meaning scientists battling to put the former in their death knell -insofar as genetic variations and DNA strands continue to manifest any pathological disorder there must be steady financial, material, human support to build up an armory against possible or abnormal cell damage that has been misprogrammed by nature or even our own innocent lifestyle that we may or not necessarily perceive as biologically incongruous overtime to its moment to moment functioning of the billion of cells that keep us healthy. This should palpably be a challenge to all healthy and cancer free humans alive and viable enough to support in kind or cash a cancer free millennium and a cancer?curative and preventive ACTION PLAN. Neither of these agenda or goal should sound grandiose because many anonymous philanthropic organizations such as The McArthur  & John D.Catherine Foundation, The Melinda & Bill Gate 
  Trust, The Jimmy Carter Foundation, The Rockefellers and Ford Foundation have been helping beyond their shores in a very consistent spirit. The struggle will be wise if part of the interventional plan of action to sustain curative therapies includes or does not gloss over public health campaign against pro?cancer habits, ingestions, consumptions exteriorly or interiorly to the human body and immediate arable ecosystem.
   
   
   
  Although there?s no iota of doubt that Prof I.O. Olopade is a genetic stuff that?s evidently decolonised and eclectically well-oriented in the power of ethno-culture in the treatment process of diseases-including breast cancer but I also fondly hope she will inspire the question of initiating and improving multidisciplinary scientific research in the traditional form of treating cancer also called JEJERE in her native Yoruba. This shouldn?t be a Herculean task except that the will power of the team participating should be culturally adjusted, intellectually resilient and, ipso facto, concurrently receive boost to enable them sustain investigations beyond superficial bias-aware that almost all western drugs are extracts of the flora and fauna found potent in the habitat-and herbal medicine are nonetheless scientific- depending on who?s behind the pharmaceutical analysis. 
  The splendid scientific pioneering in clinical oncology-her early research discovery of a tumour suppressor locus on the short arm of the 9th chromosome that has shed more light on breast cancer histology and treatment especially in African and African-American women should be a catalyst for other pertinent investigations in African and American labs that can enhance the possibility of another gift from cancer genetics to science in medical research and HEALTH FOR ALL.
   
  As she?s envisaged that an immuno-chemistry laboratory will soon be commissioned /cited in Africa ? including the UI Medical school ?it will be productively exciting if they are not just staffed with hyperspecialised scientists but equally allow local scientists already working on relevant pharmacopoeia to ferret out their ultimate best.   
   
   
  The fact that collaboration already exists with Nigerian surgeons and scientists such as Dr Adebamowo, Akang, Obajimi, and others from surgery, radiology, chemical pathology, haematology, clinical pharmacy who had been involved earlier in the current decade show that a more extensive West African network will be realistic soonest.
   
  Good enough that she still acknowledges the superior guide of the Super scientist-God and to her delight her mother earlier amplified this notion in the home front that every body under God is equal. This upbringing with its inherent right of mixing without inhibitions or removing barrier of communicating with others, Dr. Olufunmilayo Olopade claimed has helped her in forging her career. No wonder her American colleagues have been enjoying her amazingly positive energies either on the lab bench or the hospital bed. This blends culturally with Americans but established tradition has not enabled this practice to be widely popular in Nigerian social and educational milieu yet. 
  Again Sense of Beauty has been eloquent:
   
  The forms that life 
  will
  farther assume are not to be imposed by moral authority, but are 
  determined
  by the genius of the race, the opportunities of the moment, and the 
  tastes
  and resources of individual minds.  
   
   Conscious of diverse cultural beliefs and convictions peculiar to Africans, African-American women, religious faithful world wide, there ?s no doubt that compliance to treatment and successful outcome will also require more sociological research, patient counseling and public health education for positive findings of relevant history, turn-offs or no-go areas. Campaign against this supposedly rigid barrier to curative therapy can also shift to head of temples, churches and fellowships; first to understand deeper why they hold tenaciously to such creed and later to show evidence of patients that have been loyal to treatment regime when such malformation struck. 
  A few might be feeding on this poetic but divine inclined meditation:
              Unerring wisdom ordained your lot,
              And selected for you the safest and best condition.
  Health and social workers can also use this same rich thought to positively canvass medical treatment ?when necessary.
  A Pathetic case in point:
  A patient consulted a doctor friend for treatment and a surgeon colleague was notified .The patient later turned up to disclose that he ?s received complete healing through his pastor. On his belated return to his doctor-friends for help the cancer has metastasized beyond the surgeon?s willingness to treat! According to Professor O.A. Akinyinka, Dean of Clinical Sciences, University of Ibadan Medical School, the current slogan and graffiti?CANCER IS CURABLE seen on road traffic drums might be help to draw the church and the public to health workers and clinicians to seek medical treatment insteading of leaving everything to faith without action-i.e skills that almost all physicians also believe are from God to maintain and prolong life. 
   
   News &Comment
   By GBEMI TIJANI-MST
  National Medical Directory Project (Nigerian Medical Association)
  Convener: Development Friendly Foundation
  ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: 
  Pedestal Magazine for C.K.William?s elegy reviewed by Jesse Vanderhooft
  New Poetry, Vol.17, issue15 (mon14, nov2005, Crisman Cooley Post)
  Provost, College of Medicine, U.I.Ibadan, Nigeria (Prof.I.f.Adewole)
  Dean,Clinical Sciences,College of Medicine,U.I.(Prof.O.A.Akinyinka)
  Dr. Sina Oladokun,Vice-Chairman( Nigerian Medical Association, Oyo State)
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  ,
   
   
   


		
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051117/9421d45e/attachment.html>

From cc at opus0.com  Thu Nov 17 15:12:04 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:12:04 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Santayana_3
In-Reply-To: <200511171700.jAHH04M3018067@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJIEKECHAA.cc@opus0.com>

p41"So long as happiness is conceived as a poet might conceive it, namely,
in its immediately sensuous and emotional factors, so long as we live in the
moment and make our happiness consist in the simplest things,--in breathing,
seeing, hearing, loving, and sleeping,--our happiness has the same
substance, the same elements, as our esthetic delight, for it is esthetic
delight that makes our happiness.  Yet poets and artists, with their
immediate and esthetic joys, are not thought to be happy [people]; they
themselves are apt to be loud in their lamentations, and to regard
themselves as eminently and tragically unhappy.  This arises from the
intensity and inconstancy of their emotions, from their improvidence, and
from the eccentricity of their social habits. While among them the sensuous
and vital functions have the upper hand, the gregarious and social instincts
are subordinated and often deranged; and their unhappiness consists in the
sense of their unfitness to live in the world into which they were born."


*********

Append to 2nd sentence of history's summary of USA: "..., and sought forms
of pleasure and entertainment that helped them escape the severity of their
moral self-injunctions and the 'stress' of the workplace (the pressure to
learn ever-more about ever-less in ever-shorter periods of time)."  Append
at the end: "Art forms that didn't fill a market need were marginalized in
the culture.  De Toqueville's 'tyranny of the majority', in the form of the
'free market' (tightly controlled production and distribution, linked to
'unlimited' extensions of consumer credit), reigned in greater degree than
he could possibly have imagined.  No wealthy nation in history was, in this
sense, less free."




From halvard at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 18 18:09:17 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:09:17 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others:  Paul Blackburn, "Tanks"
Message-ID: <9970135D-7FF6-4136-BC4B-F2E2301E87D5@earthlink.net>

Tanks

Houses three stories high
or block homes of apartments
         both with steep Norman roofs

The fish swims in the river
and shares it with other fish
                 The cabbages have a garden
                 to share with the lettuce and radishes,
                                             the tomatoes

The cow has a small pasture
and grazes it by herself

                                             An old man lies on a  
sack on
                                             a hillside in the sun
                                             after lunch .
                                             watches the train whip by

The dead lie in the cemetery near the tracks
share earth with the other dead
and do not look at anything

A barge on the river barges past, the wash flying
The fish swim in the river
                 They share it with the barge,
                         the fishermen .

--Paul Blackburn

fr. The Journals (ed. Robert Kelly)
[Santa Barbara: Black Sparrow Press, 1977]


Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051118/add78bb6/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 19 13:19:52 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:19:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 7, Fall 2005, Now Online!
Message-ID: <4CD2549C-C866-4AFC-8338-4E74313799C6@earthlink.net>

**********************************************************

Hamilton Stone Review, Issue 7, Fall 2005, Now Online!

Featuring fiction by Sheila Kohler, Eva Kollisch, Kathrin Perutz,
and Karen Satran; and poetry by Ioan Flora, Kenneth Wolman,
L. N. Allen, Lynn Levin, Rodney Nelson, Maurice Oliver,
Sarah Birl, Mark Young, and Maxianne Berger.

         http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------

Submissions to the Hamilton Stone Review

For the first time, the Hamilton Stone Review is open to unsolicited
fiction submissions. It will also be taking unsolicited poetry  
submissions
until Jan. 15, 2006, for Issue #8, which will be out in February 2006.
Poetry submissions should go directly to Halvard Johnson at
halvard at earthlink.net. Send fiction submissions to Lynda Schor
at lyndaschor at earthlink.net.

PLEASE SEND THIS ALONG TO OTHERS

**********************************************************



From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Sat Nov 19 15:00:45 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:00:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] silliman says
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BF9@mail.emerson.edu>

Silliman says: The very first page is so strong it nearly 
took my head off:

If the judgment?s cruel
that?s a wake-up call: increase
energy, attention. These little pumpkins ornament
themselves with swells, die
pushing live volume packed spring-
form hard as a knock: Decease
and resist. Content
surges exactly as memory
closes its rear-guarding
eyes
? the world rushes in not by! just be
steady, receptors, measure is fuel:
whatever moves move with the
drift which moving never lies.

Do you know that experience where you sit down with 
a new CD & understand within its first few bars that your 
whole idea of music needs to change? Or where you go 
to the cinema and realize that your idea of what film can 
be is about to be transformed completely even after just 
the first few frames of whatever great movie? That was 
how I felt reading this first poem, entitled ?I? ? the numeral, 
not the letter ? the first of 80-some sonnets gathered 
together in Aaron Shurin?s brand new Involuntary Lyrics,
just out from Rusty Morrison?s Omnidawn Press. This is 
not the first time that a book by Shurin has filled me with 
awe, even envy. 

Just to convey a whiff of the range here, which is much 
greater than the employment of a single source code (the 
end words in Shakespeare?s sonnets) might imply, is ?XXXII?:
love men
all day
in thought
pull cover
from age
make survey
inventory brought
to lover
body?s equipage
suck time
panoply prove
inside pen
mutual love
rhyme rhyme

. . .
Returning to verse form after 15 years of prose poetry, 
Shurin has given us a book as dense as & more faceted 
than, say, Zukofsky?s 80 Flowers. It is not merely a masterwork, 
but the evolution of a confident & still growing, ever 
questing imagination never content to settle for whatever 
he?s done before. I am so friggin? jealous that it?s obscene!


*

Two poems from Mark Lamoureux? Film Poems, from 
Katalanch? Press:

 ?Skullduggery?

Jitterbug chiaroscuro

the kids are

allright engine

                            skull on


skull underneath the

skin

                            sea        of

ethereal fire

                            Backwards

                            bird,

flare painted

                            masks of

fight war surrealism

how then tulip in
                            cloud fetish

. . .
Silliman says: 'Perhaps the most successful poem is one 
based on Irina Evteeva?s ?Clown?':

Moon noose

flatfoot raven

cosmos            comrade

                     a fly buzzed

bison speech               history errant

                     fish mouth chrysalis

Herculean       shoals

brown            prow            spectre

                                      figurehead
                                      cherish
boats            such            angels

                                     or

                                     cupid
                                     clock

           locomotive snow

                                loss parade

sea             self            rain

*

. . . . Silliman praised these poets on his blog over past few
days, but the poems quoted seem to me to be utterly without 
merit . . .  they're like first drafts, notes jotted to be expanded 
upon later. . . I want to say I can't imagine that Shurin 
or Lamoureax spent more time writing them than it takes to 
read them, even if my saying so is hyperbole. 

Someone on the forum here asked what blogs the members
read, and I must confess I do read Silliman frequently. . .
what's amazing about him is his enthusiasm for the poets
of his ilk: almost daily he trots out a new one to be heaped
with fulsome praise. . . Over the past year or so I've been
reading him, he must have reviewed dozens of poets and 
hailed almost all of them as worthy of being admired and
honored and appreciated. . .

I envy his endless energy, and his enormous erudition,
and yet . . . and yet. . .  isn't he more like a cheerleader
than a referee?  He's got his team (rah rah Pee-Ays), and
for him every player on the squad is better and bluer
and abler than anyone on the opposing team (boo 
SoQs!)  He's like a local reporter promoting the hometeam
with propaganda and daily puff-pieces. . .

(Imagine you're one of the multitude poets he's drenched
with encomia over the past year: I mean, you could hardly
say he's SINGLED you out for praise, could you?  How
sweet can that nectar taste when you know it's being
handed out to everybody who passes by. . .)

There's something disarming about his passion for 
inclusion . . . how can you dislike or criticize someone who's 
so positive and generous, so willing to dispense laurels
and lauds on every comer (as long as that comer comes
from the Pee-Ay patch of course). . .  

He almost never prints a negative review: he's William
Logan in reverse.  

(One of the few nay-writes he did was about me: he 
reviewed my collected short poems: and so I'm nursing
a grudge.  It was a self-published book, and the question
occurs to me to wonder if he's ever reviewed any other
self-published book than mine, I can't remember any 
others?though I bet some of the Pee-Ay books he celebrates
and promotes daily are nepotistic you-publish-me-I'll-
publish-you jobs?      In fact, that's probably why
he reviewed my shorts book, because it was a vanity
effort. . . )

I'd put this on the comments box on his site, but he 
doesn't allow pee-ons like me to post there. . .

thanks to this forum for allowing to have a small say
here.... thanks for staying open to comments from all
sides....

*****













-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 5826 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051119/6c6401cc/attachment.bin>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Nov 19 15:29:38 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:29:38 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?utf-8?q?THOUGHTS_ON_SEEING_THE_COVER_OF_BILLY_COL?=
 =?utf-8?q?LINS=E2=80=99_NEW_BOOK_?=
Message-ID: <24c.1ba9f66.30b0e532@aol.com>

From:    Penelope Pelizzon  <vppelizzon at sbcglobal.net>
To:       lemotjuste at comcast.net
Subject: THOUGHTS ON SEEING THE COVER OF BILLY  COLLINS? NEW BOOK
Date:    Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:41:07  +0000

THOUGHTS ON SEEING THE COVER OF BILLY COLLINS? NEW  BOOK


The Trouble with poetry
is there are too many bears in  it.
The Trouble with poetry is
not enough bears.
Poetry: an endangered  species.
I, too, dislike 
when bears just pop up in front of me like  that.
Omnivores. Big claws. You can tell a grizzly from a black bear
by  its rather pronouncedly dished snout.
Also that?s the kind most likely to eat  you,
can run faster than a horse 
except down hill. It?s futile climbing a  tree to escape.

Sing or ring bells to keep them at bay
But once one?s  upon you, play dead. Hey!

Now follows an actual excerpt from a  sixth-grader?s poem:

I sit in the grass
And start to eat my food
But when bears come
It?s time to move


Words of wisdom, kid.
The small black bear,  though, is hardly larger than a dog,
He may come to your yard for trash,  
the stray cheese curls, the crusted 
peanut butter jar? must I describe  for you what else 
lurks at the bottom of the bin?
Tamed by easy food,  he?s a bit of a nuisance.
Acts friendly. Is hard to scare  away.





V. Penelope Pelizzon
Associate Professor of  English &
Director, Creative Writing Program
University of  Connecticut
215 Glenbrook Road U-4025
Storrs, CT  06269-4025

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051119/868ac114/attachment.html>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Sat Nov 19 17:24:03 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:24:03 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] silliman syrup
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C00@mail.emerson.edu>

there are dozens and dozens, or rather hundreds
of great Pee-Ay poets, if you believe Silliman:
everyday he pours the syrup of his
approbation over another one . . .  (I'm exaggerating,
it's not everyday, it just seems like it. . . )

in my last post I said that he was William
Logan in reverse, since he almost never 
writes a negative review. . . is it possible that
the only book he's given a bad review to on his
blog, is mine?  

Which is more of an honor, really: to be one
of the hundreds to whom Silliman duly daily issues
his predetermined endorsements, his sanctioned
aggrandisements??

or to be one of the few poets whose work 
he has denigrated and vilified?

Praise indeed!


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2779 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051119/24d55f78/attachment.bin>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Sat Nov 19 19:05:38 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:05:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>

. . . someone just emailed me to say:

"Yours may well be the only book that Ron has 
negatively reviewed."

. . . that's what I suspect, too, but??

Is it true, does anybody know: is mine the ONLY 
book that Silliman has negatively reviewed on
his blog?

Are there other books he has given bad reviews
to, or am I the lucky winner of that lottery?




-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2577 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051119/16b44fce/attachment.bin>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 19 22:03:44 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:03:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
In-Reply-To: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net>


On Nov 19, 2005, at 7:05 PM, William Knott wrote:

> . . . someone just emailed me to say:
>
> "Yours may well be the only book that Ron has
> negatively reviewed."
>
> . . . that's what I suspect, too, but??
>
> Is it true, does anybody know: is mine the ONLY
> book that Silliman has negatively reviewed on
> his blog?
>
> Are there other books he has given bad reviews
> to, or am I the lucky winner of that lottery?

Short answer is "Yes" to the first and "No" to the
second, Wm. They're there in the archives but I'm
not going to look up chapter & verse. Do some
skimming and you'll find them.

Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com





From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 20 02:23:21 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:23:21 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] silliman says
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529BF9@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <005001c5eda3$4983be30$24a83452@ANNY>

I am sorry for this. When did Silliman review your book? Are you sure you 
cannot add your comment, i.e. that you signed in and so on?

Anny

From: "William Knott" <William_Knott at emerson.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:00 PM


Silliman says: The very first page is so strong it nearly
took my head off:

If the judgment?s cruel
that?s a wake-up call: increase
energy, attention. These little pumpkins ornament
themselves with swells, die
pushing live volume packed spring-
form hard as a knock: Decease
and resist. Content
surges exactly as memory
closes its rear-guarding
eyes
? the world rushes in not by! just be
steady, receptors, measure is fuel:
whatever moves move with the
drift which moving never lies.

Do you know that experience where you sit down with
a new CD & understand within its first few bars that your
whole idea of music needs to change? Or where you go
to the cinema and realize that your idea of what film can
be is about to be transformed completely even after just
the first few frames of whatever great movie? That was
how I felt reading this first poem, entitled ?I? ? the numeral,
not the letter ? the first of 80-some sonnets gathered
together in Aaron Shurin?s brand new Involuntary Lyrics,
just out from Rusty Morrison?s Omnidawn Press. This is
not the first time that a book by Shurin has filled me with
awe, even envy.

Just to convey a whiff of the range here, which is much
greater than the employment of a single source code (the
end words in Shakespeare?s sonnets) might imply, is ?XXXII?:
love men
all day
in thought
pull cover
from age
make survey
inventory brought
to lover
body?s equipage
suck time
panoply prove
inside pen
mutual love
rhyme rhyme

. . .
Returning to verse form after 15 years of prose poetry,
Shurin has given us a book as dense as & more faceted
than, say, Zukofsky?s 80 Flowers. It is not merely a masterwork,
but the evolution of a confident & still growing, ever
questing imagination never content to settle for whatever
he?s done before. I am so friggin? jealous that it?s obscene!


*

Two poems from Mark Lamoureux? Film Poems, from
Katalanch? Press:

 ?Skullduggery?

Jitterbug chiaroscuro

the kids are

allright engine

                            skull on


skull underneath the

skin

                            sea        of

ethereal fire

                            Backwards

                            bird,

flare painted

                            masks of

fight war surrealism

how then tulip in
                            cloud fetish

. . .
Silliman says: 'Perhaps the most successful poem is one
based on Irina Evteeva?s ?Clown?':

Moon noose

flatfoot raven

cosmos            comrade

                     a fly buzzed

bison speech               history errant

                     fish mouth chrysalis

Herculean       shoals

brown            prow            spectre

                                      figurehead
                                      cherish
boats            such            angels

                                     or

                                     cupid
                                     clock

           locomotive snow

                                loss parade

sea             self            rain

*

. . . . Silliman praised these poets on his blog over past few
days, but the poems quoted seem to me to be utterly without
merit . . .  they're like first drafts, notes jotted to be expanded
upon later. . . I want to say I can't imagine that Shurin
or Lamoureax spent more time writing them than it takes to
read them, even if my saying so is hyperbole.

Someone on the forum here asked what blogs the members
read, and I must confess I do read Silliman frequently. . .
what's amazing about him is his enthusiasm for the poets
of his ilk: almost daily he trots out a new one to be heaped
with fulsome praise. . . Over the past year or so I've been
reading him, he must have reviewed dozens of poets and
hailed almost all of them as worthy of being admired and
honored and appreciated. . .

I envy his endless energy, and his enormous erudition,
and yet . . . and yet. . .  isn't he more like a cheerleader
than a referee?  He's got his team (rah rah Pee-Ays), and
for him every player on the squad is better and bluer
and abler than anyone on the opposing team (boo
SoQs!)  He's like a local reporter promoting the hometeam
with propaganda and daily puff-pieces. . .

(Imagine you're one of the multitude poets he's drenched
with encomia over the past year: I mean, you could hardly
say he's SINGLED you out for praise, could you?  How
sweet can that nectar taste when you know it's being
handed out to everybody who passes by. . .)

There's something disarming about his passion for
inclusion . . . how can you dislike or criticize someone who's
so positive and generous, so willing to dispense laurels
and lauds on every comer (as long as that comer comes
from the Pee-Ay patch of course). . .

He almost never prints a negative review: he's William
Logan in reverse.

(One of the few nay-writes he did was about me: he
reviewed my collected short poems: and so I'm nursing
a grudge.  It was a self-published book, and the question
occurs to me to wonder if he's ever reviewed any other
self-published book than mine, I can't remember any
others?though I bet some of the Pee-Ay books he celebrates
and promotes daily are nepotistic you-publish-me-I'll-
publish-you jobs?      In fact, that's probably why
he reviewed my shorts book, because it was a vanity
effort. . . )

I'd put this on the comments box on his site, but he
doesn't allow pee-ons like me to post there. . .

thanks to this forum for allowing to have a small say
here.... thanks for staying open to comments from all
sides....

*****











From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 02:50:07 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:50:07 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
Message-ID: <200511200725.jAK7PN8W091748@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>

I guess it isn't NECESSARILY a sign of poetic greatness to receive a bad 
review from Mr. Silliman (i.e. not every poem or book he writes about
favorably is bad), but the fact that he, or any critic, is MOVED to write a
bad review must mean there's SOMETHING good in the work---even for him--or
he wouldn't be moved to write about it.

Why write the negative review:
To "make an example of something?" (or someone)
To (unwittingly?) show what most you fear?
To draw a line around what's "acceptable" for you?
To goad the writer you're writing about into some kind of response?

And, for the writer who is subject to the negative review,
would you rather be ignored than criticized?

Just some of the stuff this makes me think of---

It does seem to be an honor to get the negative review,
and an opportunity.....

C

----------
>From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>
>To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp; Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
>Date: Sat, Nov 19, 2005, 7:03 PM
>

>
> On Nov 19, 2005, at 7:05 PM, William Knott wrote:
>
>> . . . someone just emailed me to say:
>>
>> "Yours may well be the only book that Ron has
>> negatively reviewed."
>>
>> . . . that's what I suspect, too, but??
>>
>> Is it true, does anybody know: is mine the ONLY
>> book that Silliman has negatively reviewed on
>> his blog?
>>
>> Are there other books he has given bad reviews
>> to, or am I the lucky winner of that lottery?
>
> Short answer is "Yes" to the first and "No" to the
> second, Wm. They're there in the archives but I'm
> not going to look up chapter & verse. Do some
> skimming and you'll find them.
>
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 20 02:39:37 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:39:37 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor
Message-ID: <006b01c5eda5$8f5e0ee0$24a83452@ANNY>

Poem: "Monet Refuses The Operation" by Lisa Mueller from Alive Together ? Louisiana State University Press. Reprinted with permission. 

Monet Refuses The Operation

Doctor, you say there are no haloes
around the streetlights in Paris
and what I see is an aberration
caused by old age, an affliction
I tell you it has taken me all my life
to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, 
to soften and blur and finally banish 
the edges you regret I don't see, 
to learn that the line I called the horizon 
does not exist and sky and water,
so long apart, are the same state of being.
Fifty-four years before I could see 
Rouen cathedral is built 
of parallel shafts of sun, 
and now you want to restore 
my youthful errors: fixed
notions of top and bottom,
the illusion of three-dimensional space,
wisteria separate
from the bridge it covers.
What can I say to convince you
the Houses of Parliament dissolves
night after night to become
the fluid dream of the Thames?
I will not return to a universe 
of objects that don't know each other,
as if islands were not the lost children
of one great continent. The world 
is flux, and light becomes what it touches,
becomes water, lilies on water,
above and below water,
becomes lilac and mauve and yellow
and white and cerulean lamps,
small fists passing sunlight 
so quickly to one another 
that it would take long, streaming hair
inside my brush to catch it.
To paint the speed of light!
Our weighted shapes, these verticals, 
burn to mix with air
and change our bones, skin, clothes
to gases. Doctor,
if only you could see
how heaven pulls earth into its arms
and how infinitely the heart expands 
to claim this world, blue vapor without end. 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/df7d4c78/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 20 07:51:53 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:51:53 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
References: <200511200725.jAK7PN8W091748@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <001701c5edd1$2ebea140$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>


Chris, I think I agree with your posts much more often than I disagree with 
them, but this one is absolute nonsense.

>I guess it isn't NECESSARILY a sign of poetic greatness to receive a bad
> review from Mr. Silliman (i.e. not every poem or book he writes about
> favorably is bad), but the fact that he, or any critic, is MOVED to write 
> a
> bad review must mean there's SOMETHING good in the work---even for him--or
> he wouldn't be moved to write about it.

How does that follow?  If someone dumps a load of shit on my doorstep, and I 
negatively review it, it means there's something good in it that has moved 
me to write about it?  Come on.

> Why write the negative review:
> To "make an example of something?" (or someone)
> To (unwittingly?) show what most you fear?
> To draw a line around what's "acceptable" for you?
> To goad the writer you're writing about into some kind of response?

You write a negative review to let people know about something--to keep them 
from being fooled into buying it, for one thing, and to show how that which 
is bad (in your opinion) differs from that which is good (in your opinion). 
Of course, you have to be conscious that you believe in good/bad, which may 
be hard for superior types.

There's much more to it.  Your real question, is why should one write 
reviews--or express opinions--about anything?

 > And, for the writer who is subject to the negative review,
> would you rather be ignored than criticized?

A negative review is probably better than even a positive review, and 
certainly better than being ignored--because it can (1) spur you to do 
better; (2) spur you to improve your rationale (unconscious as well as 
conscious) for what you do; (3) give you an opening to get your outlook more 
known by responding to it; (4) reassure you by their ignorance of what 
you're up to that your not being accepted is because those rejecting you are 
idiots.

--Bob G. 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 20 07:59:01 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:59:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
	<BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

I think Silliman should get some kind of prize for discussing as many poetry 
books as he does--and a larger prize for discussing THE RANGE of books he 
does.

--Bob G. 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 20 08:02:00 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:02:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor
References: <006b01c5eda5$8f5e0ee0$24a83452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <003901c5edd2$98e61de0$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Hilarious choice of a "good poem" by Keillor considering his attitude toward the Monets of his own time.

--Bob G.

Monet Refuses The Operation

Doctor, you say there are no haloes
around the streetlights in Paris
and what I see is an aberration
caused by old age, an affliction
I tell you it has taken me all my life
to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, 
to soften and blur and finally banish 
the edges you regret I don't see, 
to learn that the line I called the horizon 
does not exist and sky and water,
so long apart, are the same state of being.
Fifty-four years before I could see 
Rouen cathedral is built 
of parallel shafts of sun, 
and now you want to restore 
my youthful errors: fixed
notions of top and bottom,
the illusion of three-dimensional space,
wisteria separate
from the bridge it covers.
What can I say to convince you
the Houses of Parliament dissolves
night after night to become
the fluid dream of the Thames?
I will not return to a universe 
of objects that don't know each other,
as if islands were not the lost children
of one great continent. The world 
is flux, and light becomes what it touches,
becomes water, lilies on water,
above and below water,
becomes lilac and mauve and yellow
and white and cerulean lamps,
small fists passing sunlight 
so quickly to one another 
that it would take long, streaming hair
inside my brush to catch it.
To paint the speed of light!
Our weighted shapes, these verticals, 
burn to mix with air
and change our bones, skin, clothes
to gases. Doctor,
if only you could see
how heaven pulls earth into its arms
and how infinitely the heart expands 
to claim this world, blue vapor without end. 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/143ac210/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 20 08:25:53 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:25:53 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor
References: <006b01c5eda5$8f5e0ee0$24a83452@ANNY>
	<003901c5edd2$98e61de0$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <01ac01c5edd5$eefca980$24a83452@ANNY>

Hey good morning Bob, I can see that winter did not put your mind (or is sharp tongue more appropriate) to sleep! Cannot remember how (google and stuff) I ended up with your Mathematikus this morning, and good they are, this my praise while you were sleeping like an angel.

Besides this I cannot understand what you mean by Keillor hating the Monets of his time.

Care, Anny

  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 2:02 PM


  Hilarious choice of a "good poem" by Keillor considering his attitude toward the Monets of his own time.

  --Bob G.

  Monet Refuses The Operation

  Doctor, you say there are no haloes
  around the streetlights in Paris
  and what I see is an aberration
  caused by old age, an affliction
  I tell you it has taken me all my life
  to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, 
  to soften and blur and finally banish 
  the edges you regret I don't see, 
  to learn that the line I called the horizon 
  does not exist and sky and water,
  so long apart, are the same state of being.
  Fifty-four years before I could see 
  Rouen cathedral is built 
  of parallel shafts of sun, 
  and now you want to restore 
  my youthful errors: fixed
  notions of top and bottom,
  the illusion of three-dimensional space,
  wisteria separate
  from the bridge it covers.
  What can I say to convince you
  the Houses of Parliament dissolves
  night after night to become
  the fluid dream of the Thames?
  I will not return to a universe 
  of objects that don't know each other,
  as if islands were not the lost children
  of one great continent. The world 
  is flux, and light becomes what it touches,
  becomes water, lilies on water,
  above and below water,
  becomes lilac and mauve and yellow
  and white and cerulean lamps,
  small fists passing sunlight 
  so quickly to one another 
  that it would take long, streaming hair
  inside my brush to catch it.
  To paint the speed of light!
  Our weighted shapes, these verticals, 
  burn to mix with air
  and change our bones, skin, clothes
  to gases. Doctor,
  if only you could see
  how heaven pulls earth into its arms
  and how infinitely the heart expands 
  to claim this world, blue vapor without end. 




----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Anny Ballardini
    http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
    http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
    I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
    Friedrich Nietzsche 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/0c2e08b3/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 09:25:47 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:25:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Writing home redux
Message-ID: <A4E6C65C-4B9C-4C59-A0DA-375F06446F97@earthlink.net>

Apologies! Failed to send the last word of this.

Hal

+++++

Fallujah is the city of many smells.
    Open sewers and rivers of raw sewage flowing down the street are  
responsible for the most dominant odors. It flows from holes in the  
walls of the houses, and into the streets. It also seeps up from the  
ground, forming puddles.  The older streets have a low point in the  
center, into which the foul sludge all drains.  The newer streets are  
higher in the center, and the sewage all runs along the curbs.  Any  
obstruction in these gutters results in these rivers of filth  
becoming lakes. It is usually a black slime, but can also be green  
and purple. The people don?t seem to mind or care, but then again,  
they sometimes keep herds of goats in their houses with them.  The  
intense ?dirtiness? of the dirt and the ground, explains the Arabs?  
taking offense at the sight of, or contact with the bottom of one?s  
shoes.  In Fallujah, needless to say, the ?three second rule? of  
dropped food is not observed.  (While serving me dinner one night, an  
older Iraqi Soldier dropped my bread on the ground.  He picked it up  
with his unwashed hand, touched to his head, and kissed it, before  
placing it on my plate.  Eww.)
    Garbage is dumped in piles everywhere.  The more civic-minded  
Fallujans occasionally will burn the garbage.  I think they do this  
however, because they like to burn things, NOT because the smell  
bothers them (see above: goat herds in living room).  Like anywhere,  
the more wealthy Fallujan neighborhoods stink a little less than the  
poorer neighborhoods.  The rich Fallujans usually have several  
wives.  One of whom is inevitably tasked with the unenviable burden  
of keeping the river of filth flowing without obstruction.  This is  
done with a stick or a whiskbroom.  Sometimes the children are given  
this task, as well.
   Adding to the stench of Fallujah are the dumped remnants of last  
night?s dinners; if the occasion merited, a goat or sheep was  
slaughtered.  The blood then flows into the street, and the inside- 
out carcass and intestines are left to rot in the hot sun, out on the  
stoop.  Sometimes the local meat purveyor?s herd loses a few head to  
disease or traffic.  These too are left to rot, adding to Fallujah?s  
delicate bouquet.  During a vehicle inspection, we searched a pickup  
truck that had half of a fly-covered, rotting, inside out sheep in  
back (?and here I thought a few soda cans, a fast food wrapper and a  
newspaper made for a ?dirty truck?).
    The only good smells in Fallujah come from the bakeries.  Like  
bakeries around the world, Iraqi bakeries and the smell of fresh  
baked bread is a pleasant scent.  Unfortunately, unlike bakeries  
around the world, this pleasant smell does not blanket an entire  
neighborhood.  It is brutally beaten back and overwhelmed by the  
other, more dominant scents of the neighborhood.
    The kitchens I have entered or passed through, all remind me of  
cast iron skillets.  They are all well ?seasoned?.  They have layer  
upon layers of grease and sauce.  Most prevalent is the red sauce  
that seems to accompany most Iraqi meals.  Needless to say, these  
kitchens do have a strong scent, too.
   It would be unfair to even begin to discuss the state of the  
lavatories here.
    To the immediate west and south of Fallujah lies the Euphrates.   
There is a canal system in place that irrigates the farmland and  
fields that begin about a kilometer, due west of our position.  The  
clear water, and the relatively innocent smell of fresh manure is  
enough to bring a tear to your eye, when compared to the pungent  
squalor just to the east.  It?s quiet out there, there are  
wildflowers, and the women dress in the more colorful dresses favored  
by those who live in the Iraqi countryside.  It?s actually pretty  
nice, aside from the fact that many of the weapons found in Fallujah  
are probably smuggled through this area.
    When reading this, keep in mind?. I suspect that I smell pretty  
ripe, too.  I shower (if you can call it that) maybe once or twice a  
week.  I wear one set of desert camouflage each week.  Several times  
a day, this uniform becomes completely soaked with sweat, beneath the  
heavy body armor we wear whenever we leave the relative safety of our  
concrete homes. If I?m lucky, it dries before I have to don the armor  
again.  This is not always the case, though. So, I suspect this  
weekly uniform would make most civilized folks pretty queasy.  
Fortunately, (or unfortunately) I don?t really notice it.  My body  
armor, on the other hand, particularly the neckpiece, has begun to  
smell just like the imported cheese section of a gourmet  
supermarket.  Even when I don a fresh uniform, it becomes quickly  
rank after only a few hours of contact with my body armor.  I often  
find myself thinking, ?What IS that smell?? ?only to realize that it  
is me. So I guess if this letter were to be read by me in person, one  
might easily think, ?look who?s talking, Stinky!?.


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 20 09:26:24 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:26:24 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humor break
Message-ID: <01f201c5edde$63689c90$24a83452@ANNY>

I know it is not poetry, but I think they are good and can go for a well deserved break for all the committed Poets of New Poetry, 
cheers, :-)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201411.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 27657 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201411.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 17445 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0001.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201411.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 31704 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0002.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201411.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 31313 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0003.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 22267 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0004.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 29488 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0005.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 28437 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0006.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 28372 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0007.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 26817 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0008.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 37865 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0009.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 52245 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0010.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 36964 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0011.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 12267 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0012.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201412.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 36083 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0013.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23569 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0014.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23167 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0015.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 32620 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0016.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 19309 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0017.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 31754 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0018.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 31532 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0019.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT201413.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 16138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/730f93c6/attachment-0020.jpg>

From tad at opus40.org  Sun Nov 20 10:04:41 2005
From: tad at opus40.org (TheOldMole)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:04:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor
References: <006b01c5eda5$8f5e0ee0$24a83452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <001e01c5ede3$bbc842f0$6401a8c0@OldMoleExpress>

I really like this one.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: New Poetry 
  Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 2:39 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor


  Poem: "Monet Refuses The Operation" by Lisa Mueller from Alive Together ? Louisiana State University Press. Reprinted with permission. 

  Monet Refuses The Operation

  Doctor, you say there are no haloes
  around the streetlights in Paris
  and what I see is an aberration
  caused by old age, an affliction
  I tell you it has taken me all my life
  to arrive at the vision of gas lamps as angels, 
  to soften and blur and finally banish 
  the edges you regret I don't see, 
  to learn that the line I called the horizon 
  does not exist and sky and water,
  so long apart, are the same state of being.
  Fifty-four years before I could see 
  Rouen cathedral is built 
  of parallel shafts of sun, 
  and now you want to restore 
  my youthful errors: fixed
  notions of top and bottom,
  the illusion of three-dimensional space,
  wisteria separate
  from the bridge it covers.
  What can I say to convince you
  the Houses of Parliament dissolves
  night after night to become
  the fluid dream of the Thames?
  I will not return to a universe 
  of objects that don't know each other,
  as if islands were not the lost children
  of one great continent. The world 
  is flux, and light becomes what it touches,
  becomes water, lilies on water,
  above and below water,
  becomes lilac and mauve and yellow
  and white and cerulean lamps,
  small fists passing sunlight 
  so quickly to one another 
  that it would take long, streaming hair
  inside my brush to catch it.
  To paint the speed of light!
  Our weighted shapes, these verticals, 
  burn to mix with air
  and change our bones, skin, clothes
  to gases. Doctor,
  if only you could see
  how heaven pulls earth into its arms
  and how infinitely the heart expands 
  to claim this world, blue vapor without end. 





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/a631708c/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 20 10:35:27 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:35:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor
References: <006b01c5eda5$8f5e0ee0$24a83452@ANNY><003901c5edd2$98e61de0$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<01ac01c5edd5$eefca980$24a83452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <009901c5ede8$08a93670$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Hey good morning Bob, I can see that winter did not put your mind (or is sharp tongue more appropriate) to sleep! Cannot remember how (google and stuff) I ended up with your Mathematikus this morning, and good they are, this my praise while you were sleeping like an angel.

Besides this I cannot understand what you mean by Keillor hating the Monets of his time.

Care, Anny

That surprises me, Anny.  Keillor likes very conventional poems, the kind Philistines usually have little trouble appreciating.  Monet painted works that were very unconventional at the time, the kind Philistines of the period had great difficulty appreciating.

Hey, where'd you find those cartoons you just posted?  I thought they almost all very funny.  I liked the Kermit one the best. 

friendfully yours, Bob

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/7686f602/attachment.html>

From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:41:10 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 06:41:10 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
In-Reply-To: <002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
	<BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net>
	<002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>

Silliman's "range" is no greater than that of the SoQ reviewers and
anthologists you disparage here every week. It just happens to cover
the place on the continuum where you a

On 11/20/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> I think Silliman should get some kind of prize for discussing as many poetry
> books as he does--and a larger prize for discussing THE RANGE of books he
> does.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>


--
Chris Lott



From chris.lott at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 10:42:00 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 06:42:00 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
	<BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net>
	<002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com>

oops: That should finish in the obvious way:

Silliman's "range" is no greater than that of the SoQ reviewers and
anthologists you disparage here every week. It just happens to cover
the place on the continuum where you are comfortable. What a joke.

c



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sun Nov 20 10:57:49 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:57:49 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup 
In-Reply-To: <002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BFA5F91D.15D69%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 11/20/05 6:59 AM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:

> I think Silliman should get some kind of prize for discussing as many poetry
> books as he does--and a larger prize for discussing THE RANGE of books he
> does.
> 
> --Bob G. 


Oh, he does get a prize, Bob. Don't you read his blog?  Over 10 billion
served!

Incidentally, I certainly hope *someone* is cooking up a batch of Silliman
Syrup to serve for brunch.  I'm hungry.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 20 11:10:07 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:10:07 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Another good poem: G. Keillor
References: <006b01c5eda5$8f5e0ee0$24a83452@ANNY><003901c5edd2$98e61de0$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><01ac01c5edd5$eefca980$24a83452@ANNY>
	<009901c5ede8$08a93670$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <029301c5edec$e05838b0$24a83452@ANNY>

Ah the poor Kermit, 
I also like the igloo contractors, the maniac snail, Moses' bullshit, and the white rabbit on Noah's Arch.
A good friend who worries about me sent them over, and with his permission I sent them over_ something like table-tennis.

I like Keillor very much and try not to miss his Prairie HomeCompanion. I find what you define conventional poetry so distant from the poetry you usually support that they do not interfere one with the other. As if I said that movie directors should do only action movies or documentaries or science fiction. Every one finds their expression according to the means they have. For example, I will forever write of the sea right because I don't have it here.

A good Sunday, Anny
   
  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:35 PM



  Hey good morning Bob, I can see that winter did not put your mind (or is sharp tongue more appropriate) to sleep! Cannot remember how (google and stuff) I ended up with your Mathematikus this morning, and good they are, this my praise while you were sleeping like an angel.

  Besides this I cannot understand what you mean by Keillor hating the Monets of his time.

  Care, Anny

  That surprises me, Anny.  Keillor likes very conventional poems, the kind Philistines usually have little trouble appreciating.  Monet painted works that were very unconventional at the time, the kind Philistines of the period had great difficulty appreciating.

  Hey, where'd you find those cartoons you just posted?  I thought they almost all very funny.  I liked the Kermit one the best. 

  friendfully yours, Bob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/51995616/attachment.html>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Sun Nov 20 11:23:44 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 11:23:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] silliman syrup
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C03@mail.emerson.edu>

If Silliman reviews 50 or 100 books a year
and praises all of them, what is that praise
worth?  

Isn't he just a mirror image of William Logan?
Though Logan at least writes a few good 
reviews occasionally.  Silliman, with the
exception of my book, never writes negative
reviews. . .

You can't characterize what Silliman does on his
blog as criticism: he's a promoter, a PR man,
a booster, a cheerleader.  He pours that Silliman 
syrup over every  Pee-Ay poet who puts out
any type of publication. . .

Each week he features another book or two or three,
and guess what, they're all great, their authors
are all amazing geniuses, all equally worthy of 
consideration and admiration: the list goes on and 
on, it's endless.   

His "reviews" this past week of the Shurin and
Lamoureax books are perfect examples:
can Shurin and Lamoureax really be pleased
by such praise, when they know that next
week Sillman will hail two more books as
"masterworks," and then the week after that
he'll eulogize two more, and the week after 
that, and so on infinitum . . . ?  

Can such perfunctory praise carry any weight, 
or be meaningful in any way?  


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3063 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/53532a30/attachment.bin>

From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 11:46:12 2005
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:46:12 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Humor break
In-Reply-To: <01f201c5edde$63689c90$24a83452@ANNY>
References: <01f201c5edde$63689c90$24a83452@ANNY>
Message-ID: <648208b60511200846q5c28b6dbq6c3ab4ff68653c8c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Anny!  Best thing to cross the screen in days.

- Jim

On 11/20/05, Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
> I know it is not poetry, but I think they are good and can go for a well
> deserved break for all the committed Poets of New Poetry,
> cheers, :-)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 20 12:24:28 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:24:28 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu><BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net><002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> oops: That should finish in the obvious way:
>
> Silliman's "range" is no greater than that of the SoQ reviewers and
> anthologists you disparage here every week. It just happens to cover
> the place on the continuum where you are comfortable. What a joke.
>
> c

That is absolutely not so.  I don't have time for a thorough survey of his 
site, but a quick one (of the past two months' entries) turned up a review 
of a book by Bobby Byrd which seems to be standard Iowa plaintext lyricism:

It's Saturday afternoon.
The A's are playing the Tigers.
Canseco is such an asshole.
Cecil Fielder nails one deep into next year.
But I'm nodding off to sleep anyway.
The phone rings.
It's Janis Joplin.
She's lonely.
She wants to come back.
I tell her it's impossible.
We haven't progressed far enough yet,
and the Yankees will be in New York forever.
She says she doesn't want to hear about forever.
What do you want me to do? I ask her.
She doesn't answer. I tell her
that there's nothing she can do but wait.
Please wait.
Please.
And please call me back another time.
But not on Saturday afternoon.
I like to take a nap on Saturday afternoon.


The entry right under that (they are in reverse chronological order) is a 
review of Elizabeth Bishop--that involves Marrianne Moore to a large extent, 
as well.  A little earlier a review of an anthology of prose poetry.  In his 
review, Silliman quotes and discusses poems by James Schuyler, Alan Dugan 
and William Carlos Williams.  All now long-mainstream.  Shortly before this 
entry is one completely on Schuyler.  Silliman has a (favorable) entry on a 
collection by Bill Deemer that includes a poem I think any fair-minded 
person would agree that Keillor would like:

         Swallow
         no bigger than that
         flies all the way south

Crocus
no bigger than that
pushed winter aside

Insect
no bigger than that
needs so many legs

Splinter
no bigger than that
won't be ignored

Tear
no bigger than that
ruins her makeup

Ant
no bigger than that
plunders & wars

Piaf
no bigger than that
but all Paris listened

Mosquito
no bigger than that
puts lumps on my head

Haiku
no bigger than that
made Basho famous

Nest
no bigger than that
shelters a family

Puddle
no bigger than that
reflects the sky

How about this poem by Drummond Hadley that shows up in an entry that 
discusses that poet:

My old Daddy used to say,
"You walk around a horse once.
You look in his mouth
You're ready to trade.
It's about the same with a man or a woman.
You walk around one of them once.
You see what's in their eyes.
You're ready to trade."



Silliman often brings poets like Stevens and Pound into his discussions, or 
Shakespeare.  My impression is that he scants the new formalists--I did a 
search for Wilbur and got nothing.  I wouldn't say he does well by my kind 
of poetry--visual, infraverbal and mathematical poetry--but he hasn't 
ignored it.  But he devotes a good deal of space to the mainstream.  Vastly 
more than "the anthologists and reviewers that I disparage every week" give 
to my kind of poetry, or to Silliman's kind (which is quite a bit different, 
but which you probably lump with mine because it takes something called 
risks).

--Bob G.





From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 13:28:49 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:28:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] "Progress Report"
Message-ID: <2E2DA919-6382-4017-9F61-F94EC90F3941@earthlink.net>

Progress Report



Given aid and succor, perhaps a thousand men
of good character, plus a thorough commander
might hold off the armies of Khotan. Looking
down the rows of poplars, we sought to mystify

the enemy, but ended with the mystification of
our own men and women. ?Alone!,? she said,
taking infinite pains to do so. Fringe groups
hid in the forests at the edge of the plain.

Residues of the past posted in strong positions.
Defending or attacking, willy-nilly, a general
must hold his tongue so as not to tip his hand.
He found his troops less reliable than ever,

unwilling to study ground, to realize how
important it is to choose positions with care
on more exposed terrain. Another child dead,
another whose remains were not found.

One cigarette apiece they were allotted,
a humble beginning. Ever-widening circles
lapped the shores of the cow-pond. The nation
untenable, after all those years of promise.



--Halvard Johnson

================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com





From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk  Sun Nov 20 16:50:36 2005
From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 21:50:36 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
In-Reply-To: <00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu><BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net><002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <1132523436.4380efac0a133@webmail.ukonline.net>

Silliman on Knott was 3rd Sept 2004. I remember when I read it that Knott's 
poetry came out of it OK, since Silliman got into rather a tangle about the 
longness of short poems and made a most unpersuasive case for Robert Grenier, 
who deserved better. 

Indiscriminate - well, they said the same about Schumann's breathless 
outpourings about any new musical radical that crossed his path and that no-one 
had ever heard of before; though these happened to include Berlioz, Liszt, 
Chopin, Brahms.. ("Hats off, gentlemen! A genius!"). He WAS indiscriminate, he 
couldn't distinguish the enchantments of a night from music that would absorb 
us for centuries - but then how would he? And his writings were vital for a 
whole generation of musicians.  

When writing about art of the moment it's more important, I think, to be out 
there saying something, drawing a crowd, getting them arguing and listening, 
than to get the lights and shades just right. 

RS has meditated frequently and interestingly, if a bit inconclusively, on the 
unprecedented demographics of PA poetry. No-one really knows in advance what is 
the correct number of good writers there may be. He may praise a lot of PA 
poets (and it's a rare gift to maintain genuine interest in poets who are often 
a lot younger than he is) but there's a hell of a lot more of them that he's 
never written one word about, so yes I do think the praise is worth something.



----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net


From rsillima at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 20:40:48 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:40:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman Syrup
In-Reply-To: <200511201700.jAKH04M3016242@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <20051121014049.74368.qmail@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It's the garnish of strawberries on the side of the short stack that
makes the difference,

Ron


From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Sun Nov 20 23:25:07 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:25:07 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] silliman syrup
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C06@mail.emerson.edu>

Think of the hundreds of thousands or is it 
millions who visit Silliman's blog: wouldn't you
imagine that some of that enormous gang
might actually BUY the books he publicizes?

He constantly brags about the size of his 
blog's readership: so why aren't Shurin and 
Lamoureax and his other clients, why aren't 
they selling like Billy Collins?

I apologize to William Logan for comparing
him to Silliman.  Logan is a real critic,
after all.  It's unfair to compare him to a 
publicist.

Silliman's blog is mostly a propaganda
operation.  He has appointed himself to do 
PR for the Pee-Ays, and considering their 
sales figures, he does a piss poor job of it.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2735 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051120/90c0ac4b/attachment.bin>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 23:38:58 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:38:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] silliman syrup
In-Reply-To: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C06@mail.emerson.edu>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C06@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <D14C9D68-FD2C-4C0D-B6C8-738FFDC64247@earthlink.net>


On Nov 20, 2005, at 11:25 PM, William Knott wrote:

> Think of the hundreds of thousands or is it
> millions who visit Silliman's blog: wouldn't you
> imagine that some of that enormous gang
> might actually BUY the books he publicizes?
>
> He constantly brags about the size of his
> blog's readership: so why aren't Shurin and
> Lamoureax and his other clients, why aren't
> they selling like Billy Collins?
>
> I apologize to William Logan for comparing
> him to Silliman.  Logan is a real critic,
> after all.  It's unfair to compare him to a
> publicist.
>
> Silliman's blog is mostly a propaganda
> operation.  He has appointed himself to do
> PR for the Pee-Ays, and considering their
> sales figures, he does a piss poor job of it.

I kinda like *your* approach, Bill--giving them away.

Hal

Today's special: Hamilton Stone Review 7, Fall 2005

Hot off the cyberpresses!

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com




From chris.lott at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 02:55:16 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:55:16 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman syrup again, and a question
In-Reply-To: <00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
	<BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net>
	<002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/20/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> That is absolutely not so.

Bishop is held out for faint ridicule, though Ron grants she had
potential. And of course she did die nearly 30 years ago now and her
collected poems what-- 40 years? Doesn't the Ron S. history of poetry
grant that there were some good poets in this mode way back when
before they lost their way? So, no dice.

Byrd is an interesting case. But while you and I might be willing to
call him an SoQ poet it is quite evident that *Ron* isn't-- the label
is conspicously absent. It would be really interesting to see any
attempt to distinguish Byrd from the SoQ poets Ron is constantly
slamming. I'm sure he would try... do you think he could?

WCW? See Elizabeth Bishop above.

Drummond Hadley? 40 years ago too.

By range I meant the range of contemporary poetry, not digging up
fossils in order to shore up his alternative history theory of poetry
before most poetry went bad.

> to my kind of poetry, or to Silliman's kind (which is quite a bit different,
> but which you probably lump with mine because it takes something called
> risks).

I would only lump your poetry in with Ron's in the same spirit that
all the SoQ poets are lumped together by Ron's binary theories. He'd
lump you in with himself too, wouldn't he?

c



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Nov 21 05:47:54 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 05:47:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Range as a Critic
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu><BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net><002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com><00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c5ee89$07c3a640$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> Bishop is held out for faint ridicule, though Ron grants she had
> potential. And of course she did die nearly 30 years ago now and her
> collected poems what-- 40 years? Doesn't the Ron S. history of poetry
> grant that there were some good poets in this mode way back when
> before they lost their way? So, no dice.
>
> Byrd is an interesting case. But while you and I might be willing to
> call him an SoQ poet it is quite evident that *Ron* isn't-- the label
> is conspicously absent. It would be really interesting to see any
> attempt to distinguish Byrd from the SoQ poets Ron is constantly
> slamming. I'm sure he would try... do you think he could?

I don't know or care.  I don't feel he's adequately defined his school of 
quietude poets and think he's wrong about them.  But he covers them.  The 
critics I'm "always" sounding off don't cover the poets Silliman praises. 
My generality, that he should get an award for the range of poets he covers, 
holds.

> WCW? See Elizabeth Bishop above.
>
> Drummond Hadley? 40 years ago too.
>
> By range I meant the range of contemporary poetry, not digging up
> fossils in order to shore up his alternative history theory of poetry
> before most poetry went bad.
>
>> to my kind of poetry, or to Silliman's kind (which is quite a bit 
>> different,
>> but which you probably lump with mine because it takes something called
>> risks).
>
> I would only lump your poetry in with Ron's in the same spirit that
> all the SoQ poets are lumped together by Ron's binary theories. He'd
> lump you in with himself too, wouldn't he?
>
> c

By "range," I meant range of poetries.  Logan, for instance, does not 
mention any non-mainstream poets, Silliman does mention mainstream poets. 
And I only went through Silliman's last 50 or so entries.  I missed his 
review of Knott, too.  (You would admit that Silliman is not a mere 
publicist, I would hope.  He does actually discuss and sometimes analyze 
poetry.)

And I was talking coverage, not amount of admiration.  I would never 
denounce a critic for negative criticism like Logan's (unless I felt it was 
stupid--unsupported assertion, based on ignorance or misrepresentation, or 
the like).

I don't know whether Silliman would lump my stuff with his or not.  There's 
a fairly long history of emnity between my group of visual poets and his 
group of language poets.  I believe and hope it is abating, perhaps very 
significantly.  He praised some of my visual poems once (at least in 
comparison to those of others in an anthology)--while denigrating the visual 
poetry of one of our best visual poets.  I don't think he's very perceptive 
about visual poetry, but at least he is aware of it and discusses it once in 
a while.

--Bob G. 




From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 07:29:20 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 04:29:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog     (of Ashbery & the New Yorker)
Message-ID: <20051121122920.73677.qmail@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

Portraying John Ashbery
in the New Yorker

A day in New York City:
a podcast for MiPOradio,
reading with David Shapiro

Carl Thayler:
an elegy

Involuntary Lyrics
by Aaron Shurin:
reinventing the sonnet

Standing on their own:
Film Poems by Mark Lamoureux

New Western poetry in El Paso:
The transmigration of Bobby Byrd

Elizabeth Bishop:
Form, position & politics

Some recent visitors ???
Where this blog reaches

Gender disparity 
in poetry blogs?

Multi-voiced poetries:
Rodrigo Toscano & Divya Victor

The Anthony Braxton Sextet:
Tri-Centric jazz

The meaning of linebreaks
& especially of soft ones

The death of Nadia Anjuman

Soft enjambment:
the role of linebreaks in the poetry of
Alan Dugan & Jimmy Schuyler

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 08:19:36 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:19:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others:  Barbara Guest,
	"Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky"
Message-ID: <977A1835-C033-4D36-A2B6-4CB07A3A6EEC@earthlink.net>

Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky

Since I've decided to revolutionize my life
                          since
                                      "
                          decided
                                                  "
                          revolutionize
                                                  "
                          life
                                                  "

How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning.
Well, the pigeons were up earlier
Did you eat all your eggs?
Now we shall go for a long walk.
Now? There is too much winter.
I am going to admire the snow on your coat.
Time for hot soup, already?
You have worked for three solid hours.
I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine,
no fifty-one poems.
How many states are there?
I cannot remember what is uniting America.
It is then time for your nap.
What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had.
But I like waking up better.
I do admire reality like snow on my coat.
Would you take cream or lemon in your tea?
No sugar?
And no cigarettes.
Daytime is good, but evening is better.
I do like our evening discussions.
Yesterday we talked about Kant.
Today let's think about Hegel.
In another week we shall have reached Marx.
Goody.
Life is a joy if one has industrious hands.
Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious.
Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk.
Nine o'clock! Bath time!
Soap and a clear rough towel.
Bedtime!
The Red Army is marching tonight.
They shall march through my dreams
in their new shiny leather boots,
their freshly laundered shirts.
All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne
and kisses
have been rubbed away.
They are going to the barracks.
They are answering hundreds of pink
and yellow and blue and white telephones.
How happy and contented and well-fed they look
lounging on their fur divans,
chanting "Russia how kind you are to us.
How kind you are to everybody.
We want to live forever."
Before I wake up they will throw away
their pistols, and magically
factories will spring up where one
there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,
where once a body fell from an open window.
Hurry dear dream
I am waiting for you
under the eiderdown.
And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps,
than yesterday.

--Barbara Guest

fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968

in The Angel Hair Anthology
[New York: Granary Books, 2001]


Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/494ea443/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Nov 21 10:04:50 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:04:50 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Range as a Critic
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu><BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net><002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com><00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c5ee89$07c3a640$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <004001c5eeac$ec27e3f0$18de3052@ANNY>


From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:47 AM

>
> I don't know whether Silliman would lump my stuff with his or not. 
> There's a fairly long history of emnity between my group of visual poets 
> and his group of language poets.  I believe and hope it is abating, 
> perhaps very significantly.  He praised some of my visual poems once (at 
> least in comparison to those of others in an anthology)--while denigrating 
> the visual poetry of one of our best visual poets.  I don't think he's 
> very perceptive about visual poetry, but at least he is aware of it and 
> discusses it once in a while.
>
> --Bob G.


I am not defending anybody or anything, but I would like to say that visual 
poetry can be perceived even in a more personal way than language poetry. 
Any books on symbols can show how they are perceived differently according 
to longitude and latitude, to traditions and history, the same goes with 
colors and the related perception of colors. Its fruition - besides being a 
question of education (how much time has the user dedicated to visual 
arts?), becomes also an intrinsic instinctive question which is not inferior 
to the former. See Picasso/Braques - Monet; Manet - Van Gogh; Kandinsky - 
Klee; ...

Anny 




From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Mon Nov 21 10:09:33 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:09:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>

. . . d'ya know this poem by Brecht; it's on page 330-1 of 
the Methuen Poems 1913-1956. . . I'll quote the whole 
poem below, but here's the title and first stanza:

BAD TIME FOR POETRY     

Yes, I know: only the happy man
Is liked.  His voice
Is good to hear.  His face is handsome.

*

. . . in a bad time for poetry, only the happy man, the 
yea-sayer, the optimist is liked. His voice is good to hear 
as weekly it announces the appearance of more masterworks 
by  our current versifiers.  Only the advocate, the booster, 
the promulgator is liked: his blogcast provides our daily 
dose of pollyannaism as once again it affirms the 
ubiquitous proliferation of poetic genius amongst us.  
How upbeat, how positive and how handsome his 
presentation of the good news.  And what makes 
him even more likeable is that he does it out of the 
warmth of his own heart.  He promotes and showcases 
and blurbizes all those new-book wonders because 
he believes in them, right?  The man's a saint.  His 
motives are selfless and pure. 

Because no sceptic would dare say he's PAID to PR 
the Pee-Ays, would they?  Those puff-pieces he writes 
aren't commissioned, are they?  That ad-copy he writes 
in the guise of reviews, he does that pro bono surely?  
He dosn't get anything in recompence, nuh?  Only the 
humble feeling of having done a good deed.  Like a 
boy scout, he does it every day.  Oh yes he does it 
because he knows that "only the happy man is liked." 
 
*
here's the whole Brecht poem(trans. John Willett):

BAD TIME FOR POETRY     

Yes, I know: only the happy man
Is liked.  His voice
Is good to hear.  His face is handsome.

The crippled tree in the yard
Shows that the soil is poor, yet
The passers-by abuse it for being crippled
And rightly so.

The green boats and the dancing sails on the Sound
Go unseen.  Of it all
I see only the torn nets of the fishermen.
Why do I only record
That a village woman aged forty walks with a stoop?
The girls' breasts
Are as warm as ever.

In my poetry a rhyme 
Would seem to me almost insolent.

Inside me contend
Delight at the apple tree in blossom
And horror at the house-painter's [Hitler's] speeches.
But only the second
Drives me to my desk.

*








-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3800 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/c33de2cc/attachment.bin>

From chris.lott at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 10:31:05 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 06:31:05 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Range as a Critic
In-Reply-To: <004001c5eeac$ec27e3f0$18de3052@ANNY>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
	<BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net>
	<002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c5ee89$07c3a640$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<004001c5eeac$ec27e3f0$18de3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511210731r3180f915q3e13e7687596cd21@mail.gmail.com>

I think Ron is wreaking terrible damage and havoc on an already small
and weakened environment. If his approach is to create some kind of
Darwinian opposition I suspect his plan will backfire, resulting in a
wasteland of poetry consumed only by other poets.

I think in his zeal to promote that particular brand of poetry that
fits into his ideological box he vastly overpromotes some amazingly
bad work.

I think his formulation of the SoQ (I know he didn't invent the term,
I'm talking the refined concept) vs. the PA is ideological and has not
a lot to do with the poems, thus his positive words for particular SOQ
poets (even some contemporary ones) that he doesn't apply the label to
because I don't think he could make a case for the difference between
them and 300 other contemporary practitioners except for the basic
truth that the particular poems "work" for him.

He has an enormous knowledge of poetry, he's been around the scene, he
has a keen intellect (his best writing is, I think, about movies and
about a very particular time in poetry history [hint, I don't mean
today] that is so close to him that it can't help but color everything
else he writes about). I just wish he would use his powers for good
instead of evil :)

c



From amyhappens at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 10:50:05 2005
From: amyhappens at yahoo.com (amy king)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:50:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Amy King interviews Ron Silliman
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0511210731r3180f915q3e13e7687596cd21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051121155005.49605.qmail@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


November 19, 2005

from the Bowery Club, New York

Amy King interviews Ron Silliman for MiPo Radio

 

Listen in here:   http://www.odeo.com/audio/430859/

 

 

 

 


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/52c8b465/attachment.html>

From William_Knott at emerson.edu  Mon Nov 21 11:26:51 2005
From: William_Knott at emerson.edu (William Knott)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:26:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
Message-ID: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C08@mail.emerson.edu>

.

I kinda like *your* approach, Bill--giving them away.

Hal

:
you're right, Hal, I give my books away. . . 

or rather I have to give them away, because no 
one will buy them, so if I want to try to find potential
readers, I have to distribute them free. . .  

it's pathetic, isn't it?  what a fool I make of 
myself . . . I print up hundreds of books and 
mail them out to poetry centers, magazines
and mfa programs, and what do they do
with them?  They toss them in the 
trash.  (Where no doubt they belong.)

People won't read my work even when they 
get it for free. . . 

so it's stupidly sisyphean of me to persist,
to keep sending the poems and books out. . .  

i had some promise as a young poet, or some
told me I had promise, but I failed to live up to that 
promise if indeed it existed... here's a tanka 
I recently wrote about it:

31 (TRUE) SYLLABLES

even the wisest
(even the esteemed poets
who when I was young
acclaimed me as promising)
have often been proven wrong

*

I used to send my inscribed books to 
poets I admired, Robert Pinsky and Mary Oiver
for example: if you look today on Abebooks,
you'll find listed there copies of books I
inscribed to Bidart and Oliver et al, since of
course those famous poets disposed of mine
as quick-riddancely as the other junk review 
freebies they received. . .

But the most telling anecdote I've heard
regarding the deserved fate of my pathetic little vanity
books, is what James Tate does with them:
I used to send him all my self-published books
until someone told me what he does with them:
he uses them as door-stops, he wedges them
in under the door of his office at UMass Amherst,
to hold it open.  (He likes to kick at 'em as he
goes in and out.)  He says it's a good way to recycle
wastepaper, plus it has the added pedagogical
benefit of acting as a warning to his students:
'See where you'll end up if you don't do what I 
tell you to do!'

*









-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 3658 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/f27b816f/attachment.bin>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 11:32:16 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:32:16 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
In-Reply-To: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C08@mail.emerson.edu>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C08@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <0654F647-6B6C-4D88-A732-984849B393E9@earthlink.net>


On Nov 21, 2005, at 11:26 AM, William Knott wrote:

> you're right, Hal, I give my books away. . .
>
> or rather I have to give them away, because no
> one will buy them, so if I want to try to find potential
> readers, I have to distribute them free. . .
>
> it's pathetic, isn't it?  what a fool I make of
> myself . . . I print up hundreds of books and
> mail them out to poetry centers, magazines
> and mfa programs, and what do they do
> with them?  They toss them in the
> trash.  (Where no doubt they belong.)
>
> People won't read my work even when they
> get it for free. . .
>
> so it's stupidly sisyphean of me to persist,
> to keep sending the poems and books out. . .
>
> i had some promise as a young poet, or some
> told me I had promise, but I failed to live up to that
> promise if indeed it existed... here's a tanka
> I recently wrote about it:
>
> 31 (TRUE) SYLLABLES
>
> even the wisest
> (even the esteemed poets
> who when I was young
> acclaimed me as promising)
> have often been proven wrong
>
> *
>
> I used to send my inscribed books to
> poets I admired, Robert Pinsky and Mary Oiver
> for example: if you look today on Abebooks,
> you'll find listed there copies of books I
> inscribed to Bidart and Oliver et al, since of
> course those famous poets disposed of mine
> as quick-riddancely as the other junk review
> freebies they received. . .
>
> But the most telling anecdote I've heard
> regarding the deserved fate of my pathetic little vanity
> books, is what James Tate does with them:
> I used to send him all my self-published books
> until someone told me what he does with them:
> he uses them as door-stops, he wedges them
> in under the door of his office at UMass Amherst,
> to hold it open.  (He likes to kick at 'em as he
> goes in and out.)  He says it's a good way to recycle
> wastepaper, plus it has the added pedagogical
> benefit of acting as a warning to his students:
> 'See where you'll end up if you don't do what I
> tell you to do!'

And some folks say that poetry makes nothing
happen! ;)

Hal

Today's special: Hamilton Stone Review 7, Fall 2005

Hot off the cyberpresses!

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com




From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 11:36:33 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:36:33 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others:  Barbara Guest,
	"Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky"
In-Reply-To: <977A1835-C033-4D36-A2B6-4CB07A3A6EEC@earthlink.net>
References: <977A1835-C033-4D36-A2B6-4CB07A3A6EEC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E01402B1-0CCB-4D87-9FAC-F047C5F7E890@earthlink.net>

Very sorry. The "clear rough towel" below should be
a "clean rough towel." Sorry for any inconvenience
caused. Nothing personal.

Hal        Not responsible for typographical errors.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com




On Nov 21, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:

> Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky
>
> Since I've decided to revolutionize my life
>                          since
>                                      "
>                          decided
>                                                  "
>                          revolutionize
>                                                  "
>                          life
>                                                  "
>
> How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning.
> Well, the pigeons were up earlier
> Did you eat all your eggs?
> Now we shall go for a long walk.
> Now? There is too much winter.
> I am going to admire the snow on your coat.
> Time for hot soup, already?
> You have worked for three solid hours.
> I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine,
> no fifty-one poems.
> How many states are there?
> I cannot remember what is uniting America.
> It is then time for your nap.
> What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had.
> But I like waking up better.
> I do admire reality like snow on my coat.
> Would you take cream or lemon in your tea?
> No sugar?
> And no cigarettes.
> Daytime is good, but evening is better.
> I do like our evening discussions.
> Yesterday we talked about Kant.
> Today let's think about Hegel.
> In another week we shall have reached Marx.
> Goody.
> Life is a joy if one has industrious hands.
> Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious.
> Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk.
> Nine o'clock! Bath time!
> Soap and a clear rough towel.
> Bedtime!
> The Red Army is marching tonight.
> They shall march through my dreams
> in their new shiny leather boots,
> their freshly laundered shirts.
> All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne
> and kisses
> have been rubbed away.
> They are going to the barracks.
> They are answering hundreds of pink
> and yellow and blue and white telephones.
> How happy and contented and well-fed they look
> lounging on their fur divans,
> chanting "Russia how kind you are to us.
> How kind you are to everybody.
> We want to live forever."
> Before I wake up they will throw away
> their pistols, and magically
> factories will spring up where one
> there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,
> where once a body fell from an open window.
> Hurry dear dream
> I am waiting for you
> under the eiderdown.
> And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps,
> than yesterday.
>
> --Barbara Guest
>
> fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968
>
> in The Angel Hair Anthology
> [New York: Granary Books, 2001]



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/29720a46/attachment.html>

From cervantes.james at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:41:54 2005
From: cervantes.james at gmail.com (James Cervantes)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:41:54 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems by others: Barbara Guest,
	"Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky"
In-Reply-To: <E01402B1-0CCB-4D87-9FAC-F047C5F7E890@earthlink.net>
References: <977A1835-C033-4D36-A2B6-4CB07A3A6EEC@earthlink.net>
	<E01402B1-0CCB-4D87-9FAC-F047C5F7E890@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <648208b60511210841i2b68e9afl3c2a7d344b808bfa@mail.gmail.com>

And, shouldn't it be:

"factories will spring up where once
there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,"

instead of:

"factories will spring up where one
there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,"

- Jim

On 11/21/05, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Very sorry. The "clear rough towel" below should be
> a "clean rough towel." Sorry for any inconvenience
> caused. Nothing personal.
>
> Hal        Not responsible for typographical errors.
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
> halvard at earthlink.net
> halvard at gmail.com
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>
> > Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky
> >
> > Since I've decided to revolutionize my life
> >                          since
> >                                      "
> >                          decided
> >                                                  "
> >                          revolutionize
> >                                                  "
> >                          life
> >                                                  "
> >
> > How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning.
> > Well, the pigeons were up earlier
> > Did you eat all your eggs?
> > Now we shall go for a long walk.
> > Now? There is too much winter.
> > I am going to admire the snow on your coat.
> > Time for hot soup, already?
> > You have worked for three solid hours.
> > I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine,
> > no fifty-one poems.
> > How many states are there?
> > I cannot remember what is uniting America.
> > It is then time for your nap.
> > What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had.
> > But I like waking up better.
> > I do admire reality like snow on my coat.
> > Would you take cream or lemon in your tea?
> > No sugar?
> > And no cigarettes.
> > Daytime is good, but evening is better.
> > I do like our evening discussions.
> > Yesterday we talked about Kant.
> > Today let's think about Hegel.
> > In another week we shall have reached Marx.
> > Goody.
> > Life is a joy if one has industrious hands.
> > Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious.
> > Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk.
> > Nine o'clock! Bath time!
> > Soap and a clear rough towel.
> > Bedtime!
> > The Red Army is marching tonight.
> > They shall march through my dreams
> > in their new shiny leather boots,
> > their freshly laundered shirts.
> > All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne
> > and kisses
> > have been rubbed away.
> > They are going to the barracks.
> > They are answering hundreds of pink
> > and yellow and blue and white telephones.
> > How happy and contented and well-fed they look
> > lounging on their fur divans,
> > chanting "Russia how kind you are to us.
> > How kind you are to everybody.
> > We want to live forever."
> > Before I wake up they will throw away
> > their pistols, and magically
> > factories will spring up where one
> > there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,
> > where once a body fell from an open window.
> > Hurry dear dream
> > I am waiting for you
> > under the eiderdown.
> > And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps,
> > than yesterday.
> >
> > --Barbara Guest
> >
> > fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968
> >
> > in The Angel Hair Anthology
> > [New York: Granary Books, 2001]
>
>
>
>
>


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org



From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 12:17:29 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:17:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poems by others: Barbara Guest,
	"Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky"
In-Reply-To: <648208b60511210841i2b68e9afl3c2a7d344b808bfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <977A1835-C033-4D36-A2B6-4CB07A3A6EEC@earthlink.net>
	<E01402B1-0CCB-4D87-9FAC-F047C5F7E890@earthlink.net>
	<648208b60511210841i2b68e9afl3c2a7d344b808bfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B7AD3BE-9E4E-4F62-828C-F5EC17BC5CD6@earthlink.net>

Damned terrorist! Strikes again!

Hal

On Nov 21, 2005, at 11:41 AM, James Cervantes wrote:

> And, shouldn't it be:
>
> "factories will spring up where once
> there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,"
>
> instead of:
>
> "factories will spring up where one
> there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,"
>
> - Jim
>
> On 11/21/05, Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Very sorry. The "clear rough towel" below should be
>> a "clean rough towel." Sorry for any inconvenience
>> caused. Nothing personal.
>>
>> Hal        Not responsible for typographical errors.
>>
>> Halvard Johnson
>> ================
>> halvard at earthlink.net
>> halvard at gmail.com
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Eating Chocolate Ice Cream: Reading Mayakovsky
>>>
>>> Since I've decided to revolutionize my life
>>>                          since
>>>                                      "
>>>                          decided
>>>                                                  "
>>>                          revolutionize
>>>                                                  "
>>>                          life
>>>                                                  "
>>>
>>> How early it is! It is eight o'clock in the morning.
>>> Well, the pigeons were up earlier
>>> Did you eat all your eggs?
>>> Now we shall go for a long walk.
>>> Now? There is too much winter.
>>> I am going to admire the snow on your coat.
>>> Time for hot soup, already?
>>> You have worked for three solid hours.
>>> I have written forty-eight, no forty-nine,
>>> no fifty-one poems.
>>> How many states are there?
>>> I cannot remember what is uniting America.
>>> It is then time for your nap.
>>> What a lovely, pleasant dream I just had.
>>> But I like waking up better.
>>> I do admire reality like snow on my coat.
>>> Would you take cream or lemon in your tea?
>>> No sugar?
>>> And no cigarettes.
>>> Daytime is good, but evening is better.
>>> I do like our evening discussions.
>>> Yesterday we talked about Kant.
>>> Today let's think about Hegel.
>>> In another week we shall have reached Marx.
>>> Goody.
>>> Life is a joy if one has industrious hands.
>>> Supper? Stew and well-cooked. Delicious.
>>> Well, perhaps just one more glass of milk.
>>> Nine o'clock! Bath time!
>>> Soap and a clear rough towel.
>>> Bedtime!
>>> The Red Army is marching tonight.
>>> They shall march through my dreams
>>> in their new shiny leather boots,
>>> their freshly laundered shirts.
>>> All those ugly stains of caviar and champagne
>>> and kisses
>>> have been rubbed away.
>>> They are going to the barracks.
>>> They are answering hundreds of pink
>>> and yellow and blue and white telephones.
>>> How happy and contented and well-fed they look
>>> lounging on their fur divans,
>>> chanting "Russia how kind you are to us.
>>> How kind you are to everybody.
>>> We want to live forever."
>>> Before I wake up they will throw away
>>> their pistols, and magically
>>> factories will spring up where one
>>> there was rifle fire, a roulette factory,
>>> where once a body fell from an open window.
>>> Hurry dear dream
>>> I am waiting for you
>>> under the eiderdown.
>>> And tomorrow will be more real, perhaps,
>>> than yesterday.
>>>
>>> --Barbara Guest
>>>
>>> fr. Angel Hair 5, Spring 1968
>>>
>>> in The Angel Hair Anthology
>>> [New York: Granary Books, 2001]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Homepages: http://home.earthlink.net/~jvcervantes/
> http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html
> Salt River Review:  http://www.poetserv.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>

Today's special: Hamilton Stone Review 7, Fall 2005

Hot off the cyberpresses!

http://www.hamiltonstone.org/hsr.html

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Nov 21 12:29:47 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:29:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Opening & closing numbers
Message-ID: <008201c5eec1$2b996860$d5ad3452@ANNY>

Dear All,

my e-book is now online, thanks to William Allegrezza.  You can find it at http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html.

 The hard copy can be purchased at http://www.lulu.com/content/187905, ISBN 1-4116-6055-2.

Thank you, let's uncork that sparkling bottle /of water/___bubbles & rice -riso,
cheers,

Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/554f695e/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Nov 21 15:18:12 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:18:12 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Range as a Critic
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu><BFCC607A-9ABC-4849-8F98-0D4A823705F7@earthlink.net><002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com><00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com><001501c5ee89$07c3a640$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004001c5eeac$ec27e3f0$18de3052@ANNY>
	<9b1b9dab0511210731r3180f915q3e13e7687596cd21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005701c5eed8$b2cb6d30$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

One guy yakking about non-mainstream poetry is "wreaking terrible damage and 
havoc on an already small
and weakened environment."  Interesting that he--one voice against a good 
score of Vendlers and Blooms and Logans, and the Academy of American Poets 
and Garrison Keillor and all the Poet Laureates, and all the mainstream 
anthologists--should be able to do that.

--Bob G. 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Mon Nov 21 16:00:38 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:00:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>
Message-ID: <008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Yup, Adolf drove the Philistine
to his desk where
his noble-hearted words 
gave his country Joe.


--Bob G.



From JforJames at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 17:40:22 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:40:22 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: AWP's 2006 Early Bird Registration Ends Tomorrow
Message-ID: <f6.5d6de59c.30b3a6d6@aol.com>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/fa39cc6d/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: JforJames at aol.com
Subject: Fwd: AWP's 2006 Early Bird Registration Ends Tomorrow
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:39:59 EST
Size: 3938
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051121/fa39cc6d/attachment.mht>

From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 03:35:20 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:35:20 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
In-Reply-To: <008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>
	<008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Yup, Adolf drove the Philistine
> to his desk where
> his noble-hearted words
> gave his country Joe.

Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
Ron's commentary on his blog:

"More important than the presentation was the content. One example:

JOE



JOE

One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
naming nor parataxis of rhyme."

And yes, that is the poem. It can be overwhelming when you read it for
the first time, so let me quote just the poem again. But this time,
slow down. Savor the avantness of it all:

JOE




JOE



So quickly over.

c
--
Chris Lott



From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 03:56:15 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:56:15 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Range as a Critic
In-Reply-To: <005701c5eed8$b2cb6d30$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu>
	<002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c5ee89$07c3a640$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<004001c5eeac$ec27e3f0$18de3052@ANNY>
	<9b1b9dab0511210731r3180f915q3e13e7687596cd21@mail.gmail.com>
	<005701c5eed8$b2cb6d30$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511220056m6f4299e7rc362b361c4b94585@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> One guy yakking about non-mainstream poetry is "wreaking terrible damage and
> havoc on an already small
> and weakened environment."  Interesting that he--one voice against a good
> score of Vendlers and Blooms and Logans, and the Academy of American Poets
> and Garrison Keillor and all the Poet Laureates, and all the mainstream
> anthologists--should be able to do that.

Where it matters to me, the people you list here don't matter much.
And even if they did, more wrongs doesn't make Ron right.

c



From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 04:09:10 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:09:10 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>
	<008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511220109q35d2dcfan4a44befcfc430b96@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/05, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:
> I quote it here fully surrounded by
> Ron's commentary on his blog:

Yuck. Make that something like:
"I quote it here in full, surrounded by Ron's original commentary from
his blog."

It's late here...

c



From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Tue Nov 22 04:29:41 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:29:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu><008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
	<9b1b9dab0511220109q35d2dcfan4a44befcfc430b96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c5ef47$447e6de0$98a93452@ANNY>

That is fine Chris,

what Ron wrote on that _poem_: "Joe" is worth thousands of lights or 
whatever you wish

as great is your touring around here:

_more wrongs doesn't make Ron right_

if you read it quickly enough it sounds like Italian, especially if you 
round up the r a little in the Scottish way, cheers, Anny

From: "Chris Lott" <chris.lott at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:09 AM


> On 11/21/05, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I quote it here fully surrounded by
>> Ron's commentary on his blog:
>
> Yuck. Make that something like:
> "I quote it here in full, surrounded by Ron's original commentary from
> his blog."
>
> It's late here...
>
> c




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov 22 06:24:46 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:24:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu><008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c5ef57$58653c70$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
> poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
> my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
> Ron's commentary on his blog:
>
> "More important than the presentation was the content. One example:
>
> JOE
>
>
>
> JOE
>
> One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
> undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
> titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
> challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
> most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
> this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
> words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
> fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
> naming nor parataxis of rhyme."
>
> And yes, that is the poem. It can be overwhelming when you read it for
> the first time, so let me quote just the poem again. But this time,
> slow down. Savor the avantness of it all:
>
> JOE
>
>
>
>
> JOE
>
>
>
> So quickly over.
>
> c
> --
> Chris Lott

Well, it has nothing to do with the Joe I was speaking of, and I think its 
presentation much more important than its content.  Otherwise, Silliman does 
a good job of saying why it's a good poem, though I would say different 
things in different ways about it were I to discuss it.  I'll just say here 
that it will appeal to the kind of people who can appreciate "lighght" and 
not to those who can't.

--Bob G. 




From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov 22 06:30:47 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:30:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Range as a Critic
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C02@mail.emerson.edu><002801c5edd2$2e3e5840$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511200741y4ee629dbx998c9772c07e3e31@mail.gmail.com><9b1b9dab0511200742p65305661ie09f76c745f07a01@mail.gmail.com><00c601c5edf7$43a6ff50$44b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511202355q44f6f7bwa8e74d08af83d033@mail.gmail.com><001501c5ee89$07c3a640$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><004001c5eeac$ec27e3f0$18de3052@ANNY><9b1b9dab0511210731r3180f915q3e13e7687596cd21@mail.gmail.com><005701c5eed8$b2cb6d30$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511220056m6f4299e7rc362b361c4b94585@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c5ef58$2fa218c0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> On 11/21/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>> One guy yakking about non-mainstream poetry is "wreaking terrible damage 
>> and
>> havoc on an already small
>> and weakened environment."  Interesting that he--one voice against a good
>> score of Vendlers and Blooms and Logans, and the Academy of American 
>> Poets
>> and Garrison Keillor and all the Poet Laureates, and all the mainstream
>> anthologists--should be able to do that.
>
> Where it matters to me, the people you list here don't matter much.
> And even if they did, more wrongs doesn't make Ron right.
>
> c

My point is that it's hard to see how he's wreaking great damage--AND 
havoc--considering he's just one voice, and is very much out-volumned by the 
voices of Wilshberia.

--Bob G. 




From JforJames at aol.com  Tue Nov 22 09:56:33 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:56:33 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dylan Poetry Sells for $78K at Christie's
Message-ID: <1a8.446bf6e7.30b48ba1@aol.com>

http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/ap/20051121/113263008000.html
Dylan Poetry Sells for $78K at Christie's
 
Mon Nov 21, 7:28 PM ET
 
A collection of poems written by Minnesota college student Robert Zimmerman 
later to become the "voice of a generation" as Bob Dylan sold for $78,000 at an 
auction of rock and pop memorabilia. 
 
Titled "Poems Without Titles," and written in 1960, the 16-page hand-scrawled 
collection features the aspiring poet trying out his soon-to-be pseudonym. 
Most of the poems are signed "Dylan" or "Dylanism," the earliest known use of 
his nom-de-tune, according to Christie's auction house. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051122/e2238d48/attachment.html>

From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 20:12:16 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:12:16 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
In-Reply-To: <001f01c5ef57$58653c70$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>
	<008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c5ef57$58653c70$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511221712t20b74bc3of1fe12b18d84b213@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/22/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Well, it has nothing to do with the Joe I was speaking of

It's sarcasm Bob. Maybe I'll use <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags next time.
And no, JOE is in no way a good poem. At all.

c



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Tue Nov 22 20:41:24 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:41:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu><008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com><001f01c5ef57$58653c70$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511221712t20b74bc3of1fe12b18d84b213@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Lott" <chris.lott at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp,Views" 
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht


> On 11/22/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>> Well, it has nothing to do with the Joe I was speaking of
>
> It's sarcasm Bob. Maybe I'll use <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags next time.
> And no, JOE is in no way a good poem. At all.
>
> c

It's a minimalist poem.  I would argue that there are enough people around 
who state that they appreciate effective minimalist poems, and enough around 
who seem to understand them in a way that seems legitimate to me (as 
Silliman somewhat does), for fair-minded people to accept them as one kind 
of sometimes-worthwhile poem.  Since at least two critics, me and Silliman, 
consider this particular minimalist poem a good one, it's hard to view the 
source of your judgement of it as anything more than an inability to 
appreciate minimalist poems (unfortunately combined with an inability to 
acknowledge an inability to appreciate).  But you're in good company. 
Marcus Bales and David Graham would second you, I'm sure.

--Bob G.





From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 20:52:07 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:52:07 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>
	<008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c5ef57$58653c70$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511221712t20b74bc3of1fe12b18d84b213@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511221752t2122286vff0d701fd0931c74@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/22/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Since at least two critics, me and Silliman,
> consider this particular minimalist poem a good one, it's hard to view the
> source of your judgement of it as anything more than an inability to
> appreciate minimalist poems (unfortunately combined with an inability to
> acknowledge an inability to appreciate).  But you're in good company.
> Marcus Bales and David Graham would second you, I'm sure.

Since at least that many critics will back me up, it's hard to view
the source of your judgement as anything more than an inability to
discriminate good poems or appreciate the difference between non-poems
(unfortunately combined with an in ability to acknowledge your
inability) and poems. But you're in god company. I'm sure Curtis
Faville and Tony Tost will second you.

c



From chris.lott at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 20:53:28 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:53:28 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] a few words from Brecht
In-Reply-To: <9b1b9dab0511221752t2122286vff0d701fd0931c74@mail.gmail.com>
References: <926B4A8D55661047B1353EC03E69CE2D09529C07@mail.emerson.edu>
	<008101c5eede$a0aa1a60$a2b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511220035s72a48ad8oeaa5b808e459047f@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c5ef57$58653c70$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511221712t20b74bc3of1fe12b18d84b213@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<9b1b9dab0511221752t2122286vff0d701fd0931c74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511221753w7097f4b2heebab322b1a438e6@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/22/05, Chris Lott <chris.lott at gmail.com> wrote:
> But you're in god company.

Well, not really :)

c



From grahamd at ripon.edu  Tue Nov 22 23:43:15 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:43:15 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BFA94F82.15EBD%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 11/22/05 7:41 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:

> 
> It's a minimalist poem.  I would argue that there are enough people around
> who state that they appreciate effective minimalist poems, and enough around
> who seem to understand them in a way that seems legitimate to me (as
> Silliman somewhat does), for fair-minded people to accept them as one kind
> of sometimes-worthwhile poem.  Since at least two critics, me and Silliman,
> consider this particular minimalist poem a good one, it's hard to view the
> source of your judgement of it as anything more than an inability to
> appreciate minimalist poems (unfortunately combined with an inability to
> acknowledge an inability to appreciate).  But you're in good company.
> Marcus Bales and David Graham would second you, I'm sure.
> 
> --Bob G.
===========================


I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
poetry?  Far from it!  in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by exactly
two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's flaws
should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.

Let's review.  Here's the poem again:

     JOE



     JOE

What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin in
pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated
confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize" the
language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's pathetic
use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to boot,
is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!

The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its
sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the crashing
cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any
discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those lovely
O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such effects
went out with Poe, really.

Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises any
work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he
were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly neglected
poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:

     O

Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural
charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.

One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many subtleties,
the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem
becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the bone"
being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is thus a
sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes with
*itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE," but
with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.

Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison
those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.  (A
masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")

Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I think
of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
nothingness do sink. . . .
 


 

==============================================

chris lott said:

Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
Ron's commentary on his blog:

"More important than the presentation was the content. One example:

JOE



JOE

One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
naming nor parataxis of rhyme."

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================




From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov 23 01:42:13 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:42:13 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
References: <BFA94F82.15EBD%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <008001c5eff9$0988c2a0$9fa93452@ANNY>

Jeex, this _is_ writing!

From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:43 AM


> on 11/22/05 7:41 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:
>
>>
>> It's a minimalist poem.  I would argue that there are enough people 
>> around
>> who state that they appreciate effective minimalist poems, and enough 
>> around
>> who seem to understand them in a way that seems legitimate to me (as
>> Silliman somewhat does), for fair-minded people to accept them as one 
>> kind
>> of sometimes-worthwhile poem.  Since at least two critics, me and 
>> Silliman,
>> consider this particular minimalist poem a good one, it's hard to view 
>> the
>> source of your judgement of it as anything more than an inability to
>> appreciate minimalist poems (unfortunately combined with an inability to
>> acknowledge an inability to appreciate).  But you're in good company.
>> Marcus Bales and David Graham would second you, I'm sure.
>>
>> --Bob G.
> ===========================
>
>
> I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
> poetry?  Far from it!  in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
> it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by 
> exactly
> two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's 
> flaws
> should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.
>
> Let's review.  Here's the poem again:
>
>     JOE
>
>
>
>     JOE
>
> What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin 
> in
> pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated
> confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
> sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize" 
> the
> language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's 
> pathetic
> use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to 
> boot,
> is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!
>
> The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its
> sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
> hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the crashing
> cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any
> discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those 
> lovely
> O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such effects
> went out with Poe, really.
>
> Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises any
> work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
> virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he
> were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly neglected
> poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:
>
>     O
>
> Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural
> charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.
>
> One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
> exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many 
> subtleties,
> the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
> vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
> piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem
> becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the 
> bone"
> being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is thus 
> a
> sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes 
> with
> *itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE," but
> with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.
>
> Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison
> those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.  (A
> masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")
>
> Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I 
> think
> of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
> of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
> nothingness do sink. . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
>
> chris lott said:
>
> Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
> poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
> my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
> Ron's commentary on his blog:
>
> "More important than the presentation was the content. One example:
>
> JOE
>
>
>
> JOE
>
> One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
> undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
> titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
> challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
> most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
> this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
> words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
> fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
> naming nor parataxis of rhyme."
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Nov 23 09:26:34 2005
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:26:34 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
Message-ID: <20051123142634.973FA13CFF@smapp02.siteprotect.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/e9c7b27a/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 09:54:27 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:54:27 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
In-Reply-To: <BFA94F82.15EBD%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<BFA94F82.15EBD%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511230654s502ab067o497ce493684b48bc@mail.gmail.com>

Brilliant!

I've been reading Frederick Crews' *Pooh Perplex*.  Your message reminds me
of it.

Spot-on parody.

Thanks, David.

Jeff Newberry


On 11/22/05, David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:
>
> on 11/22/05 7:41 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:
>
> >
> > It's a minimalist poem.  I would argue that there are enough people
> around
> > who state that they appreciate effective minimalist poems, and enough
> around
> > who seem to understand them in a way that seems legitimate to me (as
> > Silliman somewhat does), for fair-minded people to accept them as one
> kind
> > of sometimes-worthwhile poem.  Since at least two critics, me and
> Silliman,
> > consider this particular minimalist poem a good one, it's hard to view
> the
> > source of your judgement of it as anything more than an inability to
> > appreciate minimalist poems (unfortunately combined with an inability to
> > acknowledge an inability to appreciate).  But you're in good company.
> > Marcus Bales and David Graham would second you, I'm sure.
> >
> > --Bob G.
> ===========================
>
>
> I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
> poetry?  Far from it!  in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
> it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by
> exactly
> two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's
> flaws
> should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.
>
> Let's review.  Here's the poem again:
>
>     JOE
>
>
>
>     JOE
>
> What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin
> in
> pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated
> confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
> sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize"
> the
> language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's
> pathetic
> use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to
> boot,
> is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!
>
> The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its
> sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
> hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the crashing
> cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any
> discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those
> lovely
> O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such effects
> went out with Poe, really.
>
> Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises any
> work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
> virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he
> were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly neglected
> poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:
>
>     O
>
> Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural
> charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.
>
> One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
> exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many
> subtleties,
> the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
> vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
> piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem
> becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the
> bone"
> being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is thus
> a
> sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes
> with
> *itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE," but
> with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.
>
> Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison
> those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.  (A
> masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")
>
> Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I
> think
> of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
> of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
> nothingness do sink. . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
>
> chris lott said:
>
> Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
> poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
> my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
> Ron's commentary on his blog:
>
> "More important than the presentation was the content. One example:
>
> JOE
>
>
>
> JOE
>
> One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
> undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
> titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
> challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
> most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
> this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
> words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
> fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
> naming nor parataxis of rhyme."
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/7de77349/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 23 10:17:58 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:17:58 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Thanksgiving 2005
Message-ID: <73279AEE-4846-411F-A511-56355288C978@earthlink.net>


http://www.geoffreygatza.com/Th2005.htm


Hal           Serving the tristate area.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/27db7c4a/attachment.html>

From schloss at mail.com  Wed Nov 23 10:50:45 2005
From: schloss at mail.com (Christopher Walker)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:50:45 -0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
References: <00ac01c5efcf$03c8fee0$65b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><BFA94F82.15EBD%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<731bb17a0511230654s502ab067o497ce493684b48bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e001c5f045$ab7b2070$0300a8c0@Schloss>

Here's a real minimalist poem (by the far from neglected Scots poet Don Paterson); from his second collection, I think. It is shorter even than O.

*On Going to Meet a Zen Master*









I think it works. Its also an example of how silence can have rhythm, of course.

CW
______________________________________________________

I am always doing what I cannot do yet in order to learn how to do it
(van Gogh)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/ca72e87e/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Nov 23 11:07:23 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:07:23 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
Message-ID: <228.243adf2.30b5edbb@aol.com>

Brav-O!


In a message dated 11/22/2005 11:43:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:
I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
poetry?  Far from it!  in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by exactly
two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's flaws
should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.

Let's review.  Here's the poem again:

     JOE



     JOE

What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin in
pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated
confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize" the
language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's pathetic
use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to boot,
is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!

The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its
sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the crashing
cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any
discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those lovely
O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such effects
went out with Poe, really.

Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises any
work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he
were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly neglected
poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:

     O

Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural
charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.

One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many subtleties,
the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem
becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the bone"
being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is thus a
sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes with
*itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE," but
with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.

Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison
those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.  (A
masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")

Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I think
of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
nothingness do sink. . . .





==============================================

chris lott said:

Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
Ron's commentary on his blog:

"More important than the presentation was the content. One example:

JOE



JOE

One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
naming nor parataxis of rhyme."

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/c87cc8f1/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Nov 23 11:08:58 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:08:58 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Stern unlike Stevens
Message-ID: <200.e2cd6cc.30b5ee1a@aol.com>

http://www.courant.com/features/booksmags/hc-poetry1120.artnov20,0,1509966.sto
ry
 
The American Academy of Poets recently honored Gerald Stern with its $100,000 
Wallace Stevens Award for mastery of the poetic form. Although the prize is 
well deserved, you can't help but wonder about false advertising. After all, 
one would have to look hard in America to find a poet more unlike Stevens. 
 
While the Hartford insurance executive was a wizard at a kind of occult 
mathematics in his poems, Stern is more akin to Walt Whitman. There is an ecstatic 
verve to Stern's verse, even when it's steeped in melancholia. 
---------------------------------
You are currently subscribed to wallace_stevens as: JforJames at aol.com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to: 
leave-wallace_stevens-757762Q at lyris.wesleyan.edu
List archive: http://lyris.wesleyan.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=wallace_stevens
The Academy of American Poets: http://www.poets.org/ 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/96f3f9c4/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Wed Nov 23 11:11:49 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:11:49 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Fulcrum 4
Message-ID: <226.2453ad3.30b5eec5@aol.com>

Fulcrum: an annual of poetry and aesthetics, Number Four, 
2005, edited by Philip Nikolayev and Katia Kapovich

540 pp., perfectbound

WITH CONTRIBUTIONS BY: 

W. N. Herbert, Don Share, David Lehman, Ben Mazer, Paul 
Muldoon, David Kennedy, Joe Green, Alexei Tsvetkov, Carl 
Martin, Michael Palmer, John Mulrooney, Simon Armitage, Linh 
Dinh, Mike White, Jeet Thayil, Joseph Housley, Glyn Maxwell, 
Charles Bernstein, Billy Collins, X.J. Kennedy, David 
Hamilton, Paul Bray, Lyn Hejinian, David Gewanter, Landis 
Everson, John Tranter, Marjorie Perloff, Eliot Weinberger, 
Peter Gizzi, James Wood, John Kinsella, Annie Finch, Peter 
Minter, William Corbett, Curtis Bauer, Ross Gay, Keith Tuma, 
Catherine Meng, Ed Dorn, Edward Beatty, W.B. Keckler, Wyatt 
Prunty, Steven Lappen, Annie Finch, Simon Perchik, David 
Kresh, Rosanna Warren, Mark Lamoureux, Pam Brown, Frederick 
Pollack, Chris Vitiello, David Gewanter, Nissim Ezekiel, 
Srikanth Reddy, Ranjit Hoskote, Vivek Narayanan, Ravi 
Shankar, Eunice De Souza, Bruce King, Dom Moraes, Anand 
Thakore, Menka Shivdasani, Gieve Patel, Jayanta Mahapatra, 
Adil Jussawalla, Arvind Krishna Mehrotra, Arun Kolatkar, and 
many more

SPECIAL FEATURES:

Poetry and Truth: nineteen leading poets and critics respond 
to Fulcrum?s questionnaire regarding the nature of poetry 
(What is and what isn't poetry? What is the most important 
poetry? What is the relationship between poetry and truth? 
How does poetry relate to the human condition? Can there be a 
meaningful philosophy of poetry? Does the fundamental nature 
of poetry change over time? Is there one "poetry" or are 
there "poetries"? What makes a genuinely great poem? What is 
the relationship between tradition and innovation in poetry? 
Is a particular poetic method ("lyricist," "formalist," "free 
verse," "experimental," etc.) preferable? Are there deep 
associations between poetics and politics? What fundamental 
misconceptions about poetry annoy you most?) + six essays

Poems and letters by Landis Everson

Give the Sea Change and It Shall Change: an anthology of 
Indian Poetry in English (1951-2005), edited by Jeet Thayil, 
with photos by Madhu Kapparath

Ed Dorn interviewed by Matthew Cooperman

Artwork by Robert Bauer

SUBSCRIPTION rates in the US are $15 per issue for 
individuals, $30 for institutions. International subscribers 
add $6 per copy for surface shipment, $11 per copy for 
airmail. Send check or money order drawn in US currency and 
payable to Fulcrum Annual to Fulcrum, 334 Harvard Street, 
Suite D-2, Cambridge, MA 02139.

Online reviews of previous issues of Fulcrum:
http://jacketmagazine.com/26/kill-fulc.html
http://jacketmagazine.com/25/kam-fulcr.html

Subscriber copies are being mailed out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds.
FULCRUM: AN ANNUAL OF
POETRY AND AESTHETICS
334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2
Cambridge, MA 02139, USA
phone 617-864-7874
e-mail editor at fulcrumpoetry.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/63d128c3/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 23 12:23:08 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:23:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Thanksgiving Prayer
Message-ID: <292FF367-3872-4BDF-8036-B443CF2F1F24@earthlink.net>

http://realitystudio.org/multimedia/thanksgiving_prayer.mov

Thanksgiving Prayer

     For John Dillinger
     In hope he is still alive

Thanks for the wild turkey and the Passenger Pigeons, destined to be  
shit out through wholesome American guts ?
thanks for a Continent to despoil and poison ?
thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger ?
thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin, leaving the carcass  
to rot ?
thanks for bounties on wolves and coyotes ?
thanks for the AMERICAN DREAM to vulgarize and falsify until the bare  
lies shine through ?
thanks for the KKK, for nigger-killing lawmen feeling their notches,  
for decent church-going women with their mean, pinched, bitter, evil  
faces ?
thanks for "Kill a Queer for Christ" stickers ?
thanks for laboratory AIDS ?
thanks for Prohibition and the War Against Drugs ?
thanks for a country where nobody is allowed to mind his own business  
?thanks for a nation of finks ?
yes, thanks for all the memories... all right, let's see your arms...  
you always were a headache and you always were a bore ?
thanks for the last and greatest betrayal of the last and greatest of  
human dreams.

--William S. Burroughs

fr. *Tornado Alley* [Cherry Valley Editions, 1989]
film by Gus Van Sant



Hal

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/15021507/attachment.html>

From clitophon at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 12:28:25 2005
From: clitophon at yahoo.com (Paul Murphy)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:28:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] harold pinter on the moon
In-Reply-To: <292FF367-3872-4BDF-8036-B443CF2F1F24@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20051123172825.63230.qmail@web40428.mail.yahoo.com>

Harold Pinter lands on the moon, 1970


When you disappeared, milk floats
Disguised as UFOs, horses hidden behind hedges
Imitating squadrons of aliens
Aliens disguised as garden gnomes

A distant voice from a lost generation
Wedged inbetween VE day and the Vietnam War
You should?ve been a test cricketer
Or an astronaut, 

or a mathematically minded tabloid reader.

I know that you?ve been hiding on the moon since 1970
Somewhere between x and y crater
Become a pole sustaining an American flag or animus
Or the gear stick of a moon buggy.
	
Your reputations wearing thin, you need a shave,
There are no toothpicks, toothpaste, the fridge
Floated away in 1975.   No cans of beer, no soap
You can?t even stand the packets of soup.

No Scotch broth, no country vegetable
Just interminable oxtail and minestrone,
No 50p shop, decimalisation passed you by,
The new pound note too, hula hoops and Punk Rock.

Please come back, set things to right,
All we need, your VE day, Mods, your Brighton Rock
your album of beermats, collected tokens
or calculated moon rubble.


Jeffrey Archer lands on Mars, 2030

You?ve gone away, disappeared
Your inordinate effort saved the world.
All we have now is your diary
Of how you finally evolved, shed your human skin.

Take your place in the Pantheon of Greats
bind ivy or Apollonian sweet meats
Bow down before the stars, your task is done
Take succour, for what is done, is done.

Now I have your first novel before me, a account of
how
You jumped bail, cheated, lied, stole,
Perjured yourself and possibly murdered
But please, stay where you are, far away, but away.

Please send a cosmic writ to my offices
I?ll see you at the trial, moonbeams
Marsbeams defy the sacred sanctum 
Of my soul, but that?s not all. 

Paul Murphy









		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Wed Nov 23 13:25:31 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:25:31 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Thanksgiving Prayer
References: <292FF367-3872-4BDF-8036-B443CF2F1F24@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <014101c5f05b$4a205410$06aa3852@ANNY>

I finally got to the mov with William S. Burroughs, 
better not thank you Hal seen the spirit,
Anny
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  To: New-Poetry &amp; Views 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:23 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Thanksgiving Prayer


  http://realitystudio.org/multimedia/thanksgiving_prayer.mov


  Thanksgiving Prayer


      For John Dillinger
      In hope he is still alive


  Thanks for the wild turkey and the Passenger Pigeons, destined to be shit out through wholesome American guts ?
  thanks for a Continent to despoil and poison ?
  thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger ?
  thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin, leaving the carcass to rot ?
  thanks for bounties on wolves and coyotes ?
  thanks for the AMERICAN DREAM to vulgarize and falsify until the bare lies shine through ?
  thanks for the KKK, for nigger-killing lawmen feeling their notches, for decent church-going women with their mean, pinched, bitter, evil faces ?
  thanks for "Kill a Queer for Christ" stickers ?
  thanks for laboratory AIDS ?
  thanks for Prohibition and the War Against Drugs ?
  thanks for a country where nobody is allowed to mind his own business ?thanks for a nation of finks ? 
  yes, thanks for all the memories... all right, let's see your arms... you always were a headache and you always were a bore ?
  thanks for the last and greatest betrayal of the last and greatest of human dreams.


  --William S. Burroughs 


  fr. *Tornado Alley* [Cherry Valley Editions, 1989]

  film by Gus Van Sant






  Hal


  Halvard Johnson
  ================
  halvard at earthlink.net
  halvard at gmail.com
  http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
  http://entropyandme.blogspot.com 
  http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com








------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/8446321e/attachment.html>

From cstroffo at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 23 14:42:59 2005
From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:42:59 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
Message-ID: <200511231918.jANJI3n2170888@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>

Hi Bill Knott---

thanks for sending this poem---I'm going to backchannel you too..

One thing I did want to say to this list though--

I think alot of these debates that surface (or "flare up") on and off here--
tend to come down to a basic question--

What do you consider better (or least least offensive):
Someone who thinks s/he's speaking for POETRY
Or someone who thinks s/he's speaking for himself/herself?

Personally I tend to distrust people who act like they're speaking for
Poetry (would include Silliman here, but also others, the vendlers, etc).
I tend to consider it irresponsible, etc.
Conversely, they tend to consider people on the "other side" irresponsible--
words like "narcissist" "solipsist" "egotist" or "romantic" oh and
"rugged individualist" etc etc--usually get tossed around by these folks
if one tends to distrust THEIR particular authority.

Chris



----------
>From: "William Knott" <William_Knott at emerson.edu>
>To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
>Date: Mon, Nov 21, 2005, 8:26 AM
>

> .
>
> I kinda like *your* approach, Bill--giving them away.
>
> Hal
>
> :
> you're right, Hal, I give my books away. . .
>
> or rather I have to give them away, because no
> one will buy them, so if I want to try to find potential
> readers, I have to distribute them free. . .
>
> it's pathetic, isn't it?  what a fool I make of
> myself . . . I print up hundreds of books and
> mail them out to poetry centers, magazines
> and mfa programs, and what do they do
> with them?  They toss them in the
> trash.  (Where no doubt they belong.)
>
> People won't read my work even when they
> get it for free. . .
>
> so it's stupidly sisyphean of me to persist,
> to keep sending the poems and books out. . .
>
> i had some promise as a young poet, or some
> told me I had promise, but I failed to live up to that
> promise if indeed it existed... here's a tanka
> I recently wrote about it:
>
> 31 (TRUE) SYLLABLES
>
> even the wisest
> (even the esteemed poets
> who when I was young
> acclaimed me as promising)
> have often been proven wrong
>
> *
>
> I used to send my inscribed books to
> poets I admired, Robert Pinsky and Mary Oiver
> for example: if you look today on Abebooks,
> you'll find listed there copies of books I
> inscribed to Bidart and Oliver et al, since of
> course those famous poets disposed of mine
> as quick-riddancely as the other junk review
> freebies they received. . .
>
> But the most telling anecdote I've heard
> regarding the deserved fate of my pathetic little vanity
> books, is what James Tate does with them:
> I used to send him all my self-published books
> until someone told me what he does with them:
> he uses them as door-stops, he wedges them
> in under the door of his office at UMass Amherst,
> to hold it open.  (He likes to kick at 'em as he
> goes in and out.)  He says it's a good way to recycle
> wastepaper, plus it has the added pedagogical
> benefit of acting as a warning to his students:
> 'See where you'll end up if you don't do what I
> tell you to do!'
>
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


From matthew.shindell at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 14:48:45 2005
From: matthew.shindell at gmail.com (Matthew Shindell)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:48:45 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] My Vocabulary,
	Streaming Audio and the Lucifer Poetics Group
Message-ID: <3f273e940511231148n6c868297jad5fb35deef2b542@mail.gmail.com>

Two bits of news from My Vocabulary this holiday weekend. Not only
will we be featuring a rowdy reading by the Lucifer Poetics Group on
this Sunday afternoon's show, but we've also now got past shows
available online via streaming audio!

So now you can check our blog (http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com) for
links to past shows and play them on your own time. I've put one up so
far, and it includes poems by Sara Sowers, Laura Carter, Gabriel
Gudding, Marcus Slease, Jeffery Bahr, Nathan Pritts, Tatyana Moseeva,
Gunther Quinte, Ivy Alvarez, Reb Livingston, Geof Huth and Zachary
Schomburg. It also includes music by Mr. Bungle, Sufjan Stevens, David
Byrne, Scott Walker, Fiery Furnaces, The Coral, Flaming Lips, David
Axelrod/Lou Rawls, Friends of Dean Martinez, Gentle Waves, Leslie &
the Ly's, Dodgy, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Geoff Muldaur, Yma Sumac, Luna,
Serge Gainsbourg, Dusty Springfield and Stereolab. It's a great lineup
and we hope you'll enjoy it!

And don't forget to tune in this Sunday from 4-6pm PST to hear the
show live. Just tune your browser to http://ksdt.ucsd.edu and choose
your connection speed. You can listen and chat with us live by adding
MyVocabularyKSDT to your AIM buddy list.

Happy holidays!

Matt

--
My Vocabulary: Poems and Music
Hosted by Matthew Shindell
Music by Michel Cazary
Sundays 4-6 pm (PST) on KSDT (http://ksdt.ucsd.edu/)
http://myvocabulary.blogspot.com
MyVocabulary at gmail.com



From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Nov 23 16:22:35 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:22:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
References: <228.243adf2.30b5edbb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008d01c5f074$060c5030$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Actually, David's parody is poor.  To write a good parody, you have to understand the text being parodied.

Here's what I tried to post to New-Poetry earlier, but it didn't make it, for some reason:

> I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
> poetry?  Far from it!

David, I said you are incapable of appreciating minimalist poetry, as your pseudo-parody proves.  (Be truthful: can you quote a single minimalist poem that you think is a good poem?) In your discussion of "JOE," the only techniques it uses that you treat are those standard for poets in English 
for centuries.  You mention none of its specifically minimalist techniques, which are the ones that make it a good poem.  That you fail to do this renders the source of your contempt for it an inability to understand it in any meaningful way.

You do ever so slightly better with your discussion of your parody within a parody, the poem, "O," for there you reveal that at least you know that many minimalist poems make use of verbo-visual puns such as the letter O as the 
numeral zero, and the letter l as the numeral one.  You poem cheats, though: it is much too incomplete and poor a specimen.  It no more validly critiques minimalist poetry than "Roses are red/ except when they are on lying the 
ground dead" is a valid critique of the poems of the sainted Richard Wilbur, or all formal poems.  The roses "parody" fails because it has only one thing in common with any of Wilbur's: its rhyme.  It otherwise either gets the things he does as a poet extremely wrong or ignores them.  Your would-be parody fails for the same reason.

Today or sometime soon, I'll present my more unignorant analysis of "JOE" at my blog.

--Bob G.

  in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
> it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by 
> exactly
> two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's 
> flaws
> should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.
>
> Let's review.  Here's the poem again:
>
>     JOE
>
>
>
>     JOE
>
> What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin 
> in
> pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated
> confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
> sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize" 
> the
> language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's 
> pathetic
> use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to 
> boot,
> is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!
>
> The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its
> sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
> hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the crashing
> cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any
> discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those 
> lovely
> O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such effects
> went out with Poe, really.
>
> Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises any
> work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
> virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he
> were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly neglected
> poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:
>
>     O
>
> Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural
> charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.
>
> One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
> exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many 
> subtleties,
> the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
> vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
> piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem
> becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the 
> bone"
> being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is thus 
> a
> sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes 
> with
> *itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE," but
> with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.
>
> Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison
> those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.  (A
> masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")
>
> Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I 
> think
> of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
> of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
> nothingness do sink. . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
>
> chris lott said:
>
> Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
> poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
> my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
> Ron's commentary on his blog:
>
> "More important than the presentation was the content. One example:
>
> JOE
>
>
>
> JOE
>
> One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
> undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
> titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
> challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
> most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
> this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
> words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
> fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
> naming nor parataxis of rhyme."
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/6670a395/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Nov 23 16:35:11 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:35:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
References: <200511231918.jANJI3n2170888@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <00ab01c5f075$c9036550$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

>What do you consider better (or least least offensive):
>Someone who thinks s/he's speaking for POETRY
>Or someone who thinks s/he's speaking for >himself/herself?

I think a better dichotomy would be between a critic who wants his view 
heard and the critic who wants his view dominant.  At a much lower level 
there wouold be the critic who wants his view heard and the critic who wants 
to be heard.  Another dichotomy would be between the reader who wants only 
his view made public and the reader who wants all views made public.

--Bob G. 




From chris.lott at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 18:11:20 2005
From: chris.lott at gmail.com (Chris Lott)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:11:20 -0900
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
In-Reply-To: <008d01c5f074$060c5030$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <228.243adf2.30b5edbb@aol.com>
	<008d01c5f074$060c5030$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <9b1b9dab0511231511k4ff0627fwd3e011b3b34e41c7@mail.gmail.com>

It wasn't Rudolph's fault. A protege who shall remain nameless did
attempt to carry the work on with his daredevil poem:

Pp

Which really could have been a contender were it not for the juvenile
potty-mouthery of the  critics and their inability to see past the
obvious top layers exploring male phallocentrism and men's inability
to stop thinking in terms of competition and comparison but, even
coop(ted)eration without fearing castration and dwindling of their
vitality. I understand that "p" is a "labial" sound, but really...

The statement being made here is clearly about comparison, repetition,
and the "inadequacies" of reproduction vis-a-vis our cult/ure of
excessive production and obsessive consumption and the way that the
spectacle of consumption has replaced self-expression in the evolving
definition-- NAY the very IDEA-- of humanitas. Humanitas I say!

c (who isn't even going to get started on OBsession and EXcessive)



From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 19:43:54 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:43:54 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
In-Reply-To: <008d01c5f074$060c5030$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <228.243adf2.30b5edbb@aol.com>
	<008d01c5f074$060c5030$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511231643l1e5713f0id6b46e1cce455f21@mail.gmail.com>

We often dismiss what stings the most.

Jeff Newberry


On 11/23/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
>
> Actually, David's parody is poor.  To write a good parody, you have to
> understand the text being parodied.
> Here's what I tried to post to New-Poetry  earlier, but it didn't make it,
> for some reason:
>
> > I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
> > poetry?  Far from it!
>
> David, I said you are incapable of appreciating minimalist poetry, as your
> pseudo-parody proves.  (Be truthful: can you quote a single minimalist poem
> that you think is a good poem?) In your discussion of "JOE," the only
> techniques it uses that you treat are those standard for poets in English
> for centuries.  You mention none of its specifically minimalist
> techniques, which are the ones that make it a good poem.  That you fail to
> do this renders the source of your contempt for it an inability to
> understand it in any meaningful way.
>
> You do ever so slightly better with your discussion of your parody within
> a parody, the poem, "O," for there you reveal that at least you know that
> many minimalist poems make use of verbo-visual puns such as the letter O as
> the
> numeral zero, and the letter l as the numeral one.  You poem cheats,
> though: it is much too incomplete and poor a specimen.  It no more validly
> critiques minimalist poetry than "Roses are red/ except when they are on
> lying the
> ground dead" is a valid critique of the poems of the sainted Richard
> Wilbur, or all formal poems.  The roses "parody" fails because it has only
> one thing in common with any of Wilbur's: its rhyme.  It otherwise either
> gets the things he does as a poet extremely wrong or ignores them.  Your
> would-be parody fails for the same reason.
>
> Today or sometime soon, I'll present my more unignorant analysis of "JOE"
> at my blog.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>   in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
> > it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by
> > exactly
> > two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's
> > flaws
> > should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.
> >
> > Let's review.  Here's the poem again:
> >
> >     JOE
> >
> >
> >
> >     JOE
> >
> > What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin
>
> > in
> > pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated
> > confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
> > sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize"
> > the
> > language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's
> > pathetic
> > use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to
> > boot,
> > is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!
> >
> > The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its
> > sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
> > hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the
> crashing
> > cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any
> > discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those
> > lovely
> > O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such
> effects
> > went out with Poe, really.
> >
> > Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises
> any
> > work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
> > virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he
> > were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly
> neglected
> > poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:
> >
> >     O
> >
> > Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural
> > charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.
> >
> > One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
> > exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many
> > subtleties,
> > the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
> > vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
> > piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem
> > becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the
> > bone"
> > being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is
> thus
> > a
> > sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes
> > with
> > *itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE,"
> but
> > with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.
> >
> > Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison
> > those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.
> (A
> > masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")
> >
> > Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I
> > think
> > of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
> > of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
> > nothingness do sink. . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==============================================
> >
> > chris lott said:
> >
> > Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
> > poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to
> > my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
> > Ron's commentary on his blog:
> >
> > "More important than the presentation was the content. One example:
> >
> > JOE
> >
> >
> >
> > JOE
> >
> > One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
> > undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
> > titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as
> > challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
> > most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
> > this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two
> > words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
> > fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
> > naming nor parataxis of rhyme."
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/21ba0b4d/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Nov 23 21:10:11 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:10:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
References: <228.243adf2.30b5edbb@aol.com><008d01c5f074$060c5030$92b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<731bb17a0511231643l1e5713f0id6b46e1cce455f21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c5f09c$34b61600$23b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

We often dismiss what stings the most.

Jeff Newberry

I assume that applies to me, not David or Chris or all the others siding with them, Jeff.  But, as I seem frequently to have to say, one's motives for dismissing something are irrelevant.  One criticizing one's dismissal needs to show why it's invalid, not why one made it.  

--Bob G.

  On 11/23/05, Bob Grumman <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote: 
    Actually, David's parody is poor.  To write a good parody, you have to understand the text being parodied.
    Here's what I tried to post to New-Poetry  earlier, but it didn't make it, for some reason:

    > I see that once again I'm being slandered.  Am I an enemy of minimalist
    > poetry?  Far from it!

    David, I said you are incapable of appreciating minimalist poetry, as your pseudo-parody proves.  (Be truthful: can you quote a single minimalist poem that you think is a good poem?) In your discussion of "JOE," the only techniques it uses that you treat are those standard for poets in English 
    for centuries.  You mention none of its specifically minimalist techniques, which are the ones that make it a good poem.  That you fail to do this renders the source of your contempt for it an inability to understand it in any meaningful way. 

    You do ever so slightly better with your discussion of your parody within a parody, the poem, "O," for there you reveal that at least you know that many minimalist poems make use of verbo-visual puns such as the letter O as the 
    numeral zero, and the letter l as the numeral one.  You poem cheats, though: it is much too incomplete and poor a specimen.  It no more validly critiques minimalist poetry than "Roses are red/ except when they are on lying the 
    ground dead" is a valid critique of the poems of the sainted Richard Wilbur, or all formal poems.  The roses "parody" fails because it has only one thing in common with any of Wilbur's: its rhyme.  It otherwise either gets the things he does as a poet extremely wrong or ignores them.  Your would-be parody fails for the same reason. 

    Today or sometime soon, I'll present my more unignorant analysis of "JOE" at my blog.

    --Bob G.

      in fact, my complaint with the poem "JOE" is that
    > it's not nearly minimal enough.  I'm tempted to say it's too long by 
    > exactly
    > two syllables, but that would just be a cheap shot.  Still, the poem's 
    > flaws
    > should be apparent to any reasonably intelligent reader.
    >
    > Let's review.  Here's the poem again: 
    >
    >     JOE
    >
    >
    >
    >     JOE
    >
    > What slovenly writing!  What a windbag!  One hardly knows where to begin 
    > in
    > pointing to this poem's obvious flaws of overindulgence and bloated 
    > confessionalism.  I don't refer just to the excruciatingly obvious,
    > sophomoric redundancy, but equally to the lame attempt to "personalize" 
    > the
    > language by employing a proper name.  Not only that, but the poet's 
    > pathetic
    > use of a nickname, and a just-one-of-the-guys blue collor nickname to 
    > boot,
    > is patently bathetic and sentimental.  It's as bad as Sandburg!
    >
    > The poem's ugliness of sound matches its redundancy of form and its 
    > sentimental appeal to an discredited and denatured populism. For those
    > hard-J's are both obvious and cheap, the aural equivalent of the crashing
    > cymbals on a movie soundtrack--such trumped-up excitement will leave any 
    > discerning listener unmoved, of course; but in conjunction with those 
    > lovely
    > O sounds, well, it's just too much, icing on a ball bearing.  Such effects
    > went out with Poe, really.
    >
    > Lest you think I am one of those Logan-esque critics who never praises any
    > work, let me conclude with a genuinely good minimalist poem, one whose
    > virtues are so plain that even Dick Cheney would be moved to tears if he 
    > were to encounter this work.  This piece was written by a sadly neglected
    > poet of the 1920s, Rudolph Rudolph.  Here's the poem:
    >
    >     O
    >
    > Nothing tacky or obvious about *this* graceful lyric, a work whose aural 
    > charm is fully matched by its multivalent meaning.
    >
    > One could describe this poem's effects at great length, and still not
    > exhaust its layered meanings.  I'll just mention one of its many 
    > subtleties,
    > the artful ambiguity inherent in the typographical congruence of the
    > vowel-sound "o" with the numeral zero.  When pronounced aloud (and this
    > piece is nothing if not a sheerly beautiful aural experience) the poem 
    > becomes an *apostrophe*, in the classical sense, to Zero ("zero at the 
    > bone"
    > being the suitably coy allusion, naturally).  The poem at its core is thus 
    > a
    > sigh, a lyric shiver over being-and-nothingness.  The poem thus rhymes 
    > with
    > *itself* (Oh!/Zero!), not in the clunky, look-at-me fashion of "JOE," but
    > with the sure-footed grace of an understated masterpiece.
    >
    > Would that the author of "JOE" had had the wit, and the ear, to jettison 
    > those superflous letters and get down the *real* heart of the matter.  (A
    > masterwork lurks within the crude lineaments of "JOE.")
    >
    > Mr. Rudolph, sadly, died not long after completing this work.  When I 
    > think
    > of what further greatness he might have achieved, why, then on the shore
    > of the wide world I stand alone, and think, till Love and Fame to
    > nothingness do sink. . . .
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ==============================================
    >
    > chris lott said:
    >
    > Which-- with all these threads here-- brings to mind a truly immortal
    > poem that exemplifies the power of the post avant... first brought to 
    > my attention by Ron Silliman. I quote it here fully surrounded by
    > Ron's commentary on his blog:
    >
    > "More important than the presentation was the content. One example:
    >
    > JOE 
    >
    >
    >
    > JOE
    >
    > One could hardly find, or even imagine, a simpler text, yet it
    > undermines everything people know or, worse, have learned, about
    > titles, repetition, rhyme, naming, immanence. If we read it as 
    > challenging the status of the title, then on a second level it is the
    > most completely rhymed poem conceivable. & vice versa. As language,
    > this is actually quite beautiful in a plainspoken manner, the two 
    > words hovering without ever resolving into a static balance, never
    > fully title & text, nor call & response, neither the hierarchy of
    > naming nor parataxis of rhyme."
    >
     

    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






  -- 
  "Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                     --Miguel de Unamuno 

  Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/6cbe2bc3/attachment.html>

From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Wed Nov 23 22:19:02 2005
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:19:02 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
Message-ID: <20051124031902.8DA3313CF9@smapp05.siteprotect.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/acf59353/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Nov 23 23:49:15 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:49:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] you're right, Hal
References: <20051124031902.8DA3313CF9@smapp05.siteprotect.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c5f0b2$6ca959d0$23b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



What critic wouldn't want his view dominant?

What critic would?  Everyone agreeing with you?!  Good grief.  But I was thinking of "dominant" as "destroying all the competition" rather than as just number one.  I probably should have said, "universally agreed to" rather than "dominant."  I was trying to distinguish those would want to impose their outlook on everyone else (as I am always being accused of) versus those who want to (no doubt importantly) add to a community outlook.

--Bob G.



--Bob G.











  On Wed Nov 23 16:35 , 'Bob Grumman' sent:



    >What do you consider better (or least least offensive):
    >Someone who thinks s/he's speaking for POETRY
    >Or someone who thinks s/he's speaking for >himself/herself?

    I think a better dichotomy would be between a critic who wants his view 
    heard and the critic who wants his view dominant. At a much lower level 
    there would be the critic who wants his view heard and the critic who wants 
    to be heard. Another dichotomy would be between the reader who wants only 
    his view made public and the reader who wants all views made public.

    --Bob G. 


    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051123/b83fe6ed/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Thu Nov 24 11:31:47 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:31:47 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Unwanted
Message-ID: <BFAB4712.15F34%grahamd@ripon.edu>


Unwanted 

The poster with my picture on it
Is hanging on the bulletin board in the Post Office.

I stand by it hoping to be recognized
Posing first full face and then profile

But everybody passes by and I have to admit
The photograph was taken some years ago.

I was unwanted then and I?m unwanted now
Ah guess ah?ll go up echo mountain and crah.

I wish someone would find my fingerprints somewhere
Maybe on a corpse and say, You?re it.

Description: Male, or reasonably so
White, but not lily-white and usually deep-red

Thirty-fivish, and looks it lately
Five-feet-nine and one-hundred-thirty pounds: no physique

Black hair going gray, hairline receding fast
What used to be curly now fuzzy

Brown eyes starey under beetling brow
Mole on chin, probably will become a wen

It is perfectly obvious that he was not popular at school
No good at baseball, and wet his bed.

His aliases tell his history: Dumbell, Good-for-nothing,
Jewboy, Fieldinsky, Skinny, Fierce Face, Greaseball, Sissy.

Warning: This man is not dangerous, answers to any name
Responds to love, don?t call him or he will come.

--Edward Field


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051124/efca65cd/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Nov 25 08:40:24 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:40:24 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
Message-ID: <001301c5f1c5$cb3b9c60$fa7c3652@ANNY>


s
n
o
www
i
n
(g)




Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051125/8fcf1c23/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Nov 25 09:02:46 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:02:46 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <001301c5f1c5$cb3b9c60$fa7c3652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <001c01c5f1c8$ea7952e0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Nice one, Anny.  I especially like the touch of the parentheses around the g.  So cozily muffled!  Or muffed. Let's just hope that Ron Silliman doesn't get it into his head to write a favorable review of it and inspire the wits at New-Poetry to cruelly parody it.

Here in Florida we're having "cold" weather--it's in the sixties at the moment.  But I'd love to be in snow.

--Bob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: New Poetry 
  Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:40 AM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment



  s
  n
  o
  www
  i
  n
  (g)




  Anny Ballardini
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
  http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
  I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
  Friedrich Nietzsche 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051125/df5da59b/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Fri Nov 25 11:25:56 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:25:56 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <001301c5f1c5$cb3b9c60$fa7c3652@ANNY>
	<001c01c5f1c8$ea7952e0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <001e01c5f1dc$ea115230$bbe83652@ANNY>

Thank you Bob, I just came in from a course and will go out again with the excuse that I have to buy some fruits, I have always loved snow, can't get enough of it.
It used to snow a lot here, they say, I have lived here for ten years and this is the second time. 

Re.: _cozy_ 
my Swedish friend used to send me those wonderful pictures of the place where he lived, the tiny windows with the pretty curtains and a lit candle. It was an old tradition, candles were lit to show the sailors their way back home.

Take care and dress up warm for the winter,
Anny
  ---
  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:02 PM


  Nice one, Anny.  I especially like the touch of the parentheses around the g.  So cozily muffled!  Or muffed. Let's just hope that Ron Silliman doesn't get it into his head to write a favorable review of it and inspire the wits at New-Poetry to cruelly parody it.

  Here in Florida we're having "cold" weather--it's in the sixties at the moment.  But I'd love to be in snow.

  --Bob
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Anny Ballardini 
    To: New Poetry 
    Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:40 AM
    Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment



    s
    n
    o
    www
    i
    n
    (g)




    Anny Ballardini
    http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
    http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
    I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
    Friedrich Nietzsche 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051125/63946139/attachment.html>

From m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk  Fri Nov 25 12:17:18 2005
From: m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:17:18 +0000
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
In-Reply-To: <001e01c5f1dc$ea115230$bbe83652@ANNY>
References: <001301c5f1c5$cb3b9c60$fa7c3652@ANNY>
	<001c01c5f1c8$ea7952e0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<001e01c5f1dc$ea115230$bbe83652@ANNY>
Message-ID: <1132939038.4387471e24f3b@webmail.ukonline.net>


sbiw


dark
lieb









Quoting Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>:

> Thank you Bob, I just came in from a course and will go out again with the
> excuse that I have to buy some fruits, I have always loved snow, can't get
> enough of it.
> It used to snow a lot here, they say, I have lived here for ten years and
> this is the second time. 
> 
> Re.: _cozy_ 
> my Swedish friend used to send me those wonderful pictures of the place where
> he lived, the tiny windows with the pretty curtains and a lit candle. It was
> an old tradition, candles were lit to show the sailors their way back home.
> 
> Take care and dress up warm for the winter,
> Anny
>   ---
>   From: Bob Grumman 
>   Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:02 PM
> 
> 
>   Nice one, Anny.  I especially like the touch of the parentheses around the
> g.  So cozily muffled!  Or muffed. Let's just hope that Ron Silliman doesn't
> get it into his head to write a favorable review of it and inspire the wits
> at New-Poetry to cruelly parody it.
> 
>   Here in Florida we're having "cold" weather--it's in the sixties at the
> moment.  But I'd love to be in snow.
> 
>   --Bob
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: Anny Ballardini 
>     To: New Poetry 
>     Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:40 AM
>     Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
> 
> 
> 
>     s
>     n
>     o
>     www
>     i
>     n
>     (g)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Anny Ballardini
>     http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>     http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>     I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing
> star! 
>     Friedrich Nietzsche 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> 
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   New-Poetry mailing list
>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>   http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Nov 25 13:16:29 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:16:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <001301c5f1c5$cb3b9c60$fa7c3652@ANNY><001c01c5f1c8$ea7952e0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><001e01c5f1dc$ea115230$bbe83652@ANNY>
	<1132939038.4387471e24f3b@webmail.ukonline.net>
Message-ID: <005301c5f1ec$5c410cb0$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

This looks interesting but I haven't been able to solve it.  I see the first 
word as a form of "snow" but nothing else.

--Bob G.

> sbiw
>
>
> dark
> lieb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>:
>
>> Thank you Bob, I just came in from a course and will go out again with 
>> the
>> excuse that I have to buy some fruits, I have always loved snow, can't 
>> get
>> enough of it.
>> It used to snow a lot here, they say, I have lived here for ten years and
>> this is the second time.
>>
>> Re.: _cozy_
>> my Swedish friend used to send me those wonderful pictures of the place 
>> where
>> he lived, the tiny windows with the pretty curtains and a lit candle. It 
>> was
>> an old tradition, candles were lit to show the sailors their way back 
>> home.
>>
>> Take care and dress up warm for the winter,
>> Anny
>>   ---
>>   From: Bob Grumman
>>   Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:02 PM
>>
>>
>>   Nice one, Anny.  I especially like the touch of the parentheses around 
>> the
>> g.  So cozily muffled!  Or muffed. Let's just hope that Ron Silliman 
>> doesn't
>> get it into his head to write a favorable review of it and inspire the 
>> wits
>> at New-Poetry to cruelly parody it.
>>
>>   Here in Florida we're having "cold" weather--it's in the sixties at the
>> moment.  But I'd love to be in snow.
>>
>>   --Bob
>>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>>     From: Anny Ballardini
>>     To: New Poetry
>>     Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:40 AM
>>     Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
>>
>>
>>
>>     s
>>     n
>>     o
>>     www
>>     i
>>     n
>>     (g)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Anny Ballardini
>>     http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
>>     http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>>     I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a 
>> dancing
>> star!
>>     Friedrich Nietzsche
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     New-Poetry mailing list
>>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>     http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>   http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
> 




From elemenope at icubed.com  Fri Nov 25 01:48:44 2005
From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:48:44 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 17, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <200511251700.jAPH04M3002579@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200511251700.jAPH04M3002579@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100302bfac6442ff14@[204.215.200.87]>


-- 


From antrobin at clipper.net  Fri Nov 25 21:34:09 2005
From: antrobin at clipper.net (Anthony Robinson)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:34:09 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
In-Reply-To: <001f01c5f09c$34b61600$23b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <010b01c5f231$f156bd00$6d00a8c0@Emily>

Well, Bob-I don't always agree with you, but this couldn't be any more
true.  
 
*
 
 
I assume that applies to me, not David or Chris or all the others siding
with them, Jeff.  But, as I seem frequently to have to say, one's
motives for dismissing something are irrelevant.  One criticizing one's
dismissal needs to show why it's invalid, not why one made it.  
 
--Bob G.
info/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051125/ade578ff/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Fri Nov 25 21:47:55 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:47:55 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
References: <010b01c5f231$f156bd00$6d00a8c0@Emily>
Message-ID: <008401c5f233$ce4fd740$81b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Well, Bob-I don't always agree with you, but this couldn't be any more true.  

Well, thanks, Tony.  I could have expressed the point quite a bit better, though.

--Bob G.
   

  *

   

   

  I assume that applies to me, not David or Chris or all the others siding with them, Jeff.  But, as I seem frequently to have to say, one's motives for dismissing something are irrelevant.  One criticizing one's dismissal needs to show why it's invalid, not why one made it.  

   

  --Bob G.

    info/new-poetry



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051125/ac304f18/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 16:19:55 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:19:55 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
Message-ID: <86.348d6a4d.30ba2b7b@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/23/2005 4:23:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

Actually, David's parody is poor.  To write a good parody, you  have to 
understand the text being parodied


Bob, have been born without a sense of humor? Even if one likes (or  
respects) 
what "JOE(squared)" is trying to do, which can only be to push the poetic  
impulse
to a dead-end extremity, one can't help but snicker at it. It  makes your 
other favorite 'lighght" 
look like Milton. And "The Red Wheelbarrow" is almost Homeric in  comparision.
Finnegan 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/c6d604f9/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 16:29:36 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:29:36 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 17, Issue 28
Message-ID: <202.ebdf005.30ba2dc0@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 11/25/2005 2:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
elemenope at icubed.com writes:


--  


was that a poem too?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/81fa91a5/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 16:37:32 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:37:32 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
Message-ID: <287.55516f.30ba2f9c@aol.com>

 
As much as I respect Anny, I can't help but say that
introduction of the 'world wide web' was an unnecessary
widening of poem's ambit. 
Parody is more an aspect of respect than cruelty.
Finnegan
 
In a message dated 11/25/2005 9:03:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

muffled!  Or muffed. Let's just hope that  Ron Silliman doesn't get it into 
his head to write a favorable review of it  and inspire the wits at New-Poetry 
to cruelly parody it.
 
Here in Florida we're having "cold" weather--it's  in the sixties at the 
moment.  But I'd love to be in snow.
 
--Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Anny Ballardini_ (mailto:anny.ballardini at tin.it)  
To: _New Poetry_ (mailto:new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu)  
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:40  AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this  moment



s
n
o
www
i
n
(g)
 
 




 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/e8208cf6/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 26 16:45:41 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:45:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 17, Issue 28
In-Reply-To: <202.ebdf005.30ba2dc0@aol.com>
References: <202.ebdf005.30ba2dc0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <30BEDC16-AEB6-411E-9448-4589946CDAFB@earthlink.net>


On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/25/2005 2:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
> elemenope at icubed.com writes:
>
> --
> was that a poem too?

Yes, but not a very good one.

Hal        Visit Our Other Location

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/24dd2c79/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Nov 26 16:49:43 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:49:43 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] O
In-Reply-To: <30BEDC16-AEB6-411E-9448-4589946CDAFB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BFAE3497.15F96%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 11/26/05 3:45 PM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote:

 
In a message dated 11/25/2005 2:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
elemenope at icubed.com writes:


--   
 

was that a poem too?

Yes, but not a very good one.


Hal? ?
================

Yes, it's easy to criticize, but who has actually *come up with* a better
poem than "O"?

Harrumphphphph!

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/89cfaaff/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 26 16:50:59 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:50:59 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] O
In-Reply-To: <BFAE3497.15F96%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BFAE3497.15F96%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <617B94A2-8AB7-4DCF-918B-4B850F83C129@earthlink.net>


On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:49 PM, David Graham wrote:

> on 11/26/05 3:45 PM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/25/2005 2:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
> elemenope at icubed.com writes:
>
>
> --   
>
>
> was that a poem too?
>
> Yes, but not a very good one.
>
>
> Hal
> ================
>
> Yes, it's easy to criticize, but who has actually *come up with* a  
> better poem than "O"?
>
> Harrumphphphph!

I'd like something just a little bit more inclusive.

Hal        "Music is continuous. Only listening
                is intermittent."
                               --Henry David Thoreau

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/5dea2b56/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Nov 26 16:58:04 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:58:04 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm
References: <86.348d6a4d.30ba2b7b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006c01c5f2d4$7aaf8940$99b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Actually, David's parody is poor.  To write a good parody, you have to understand the text being parodied
  Bob, have been born without a sense of humor? Even if one likes (or respects) 
  what "JOE(squared)" is trying to do, which can only be to push the poetic impulse
  to a dead-end extremity, one can't help but snicker at it.

  I love good parodies, James--especially of authors I really like.  Shaw is a favorite of mine, and I think Beerbohm's parody of him Very Funny.  David's trick is very old hat among minimalist poets--the zero/oh pun has been used in a lot of poems, though never, I don't think, as a one-letter poem.  And David misses many opportunities in his parody; he seems aware only of this one trick--and that minimalist poems should be small.  He did the same thing by adding extra letters to a word as a parody of "lighght."  The result seems to me just like someone's scribbling on a piece of paper with two or three different crayons, and wanting others to take it as an incisive parody of non-representational painting.  And adding something that sounds like it was copied from some favorable critic the way David copied as opposed to parodied Silliman.

  But maybe I'm just too close to this kind of poetry (and subjected therefore to too much negative feedback about it) to be able to appreciate David's attempted parody.  Which, actually, was of Silliman's commentary.  I don't think the letter o would be funny to anyone without commentary.

  --Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/4d339802/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Nov 26 17:07:36 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:07:36 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
In-Reply-To: <006c01c5f2d4$7aaf8940$99b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <BFAE38C8.15F9B%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 11/26/05 3:58 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote:

I don't think the letter o would be funny to anyone without commentary.

--Bob G.
-----------------------------------

Or meaningful, either (he said In All Seriousness. . . ).  That's my beef
with mnmlsm:  it's one of those genres (unlike, say, Renaissance drama)
where the commentary is invariably more interesting than the work, and in
fact often must create the context for any meaning that might occur.  Like
canvases painted all black, or piles of dirt in the corner of the gallery:
they're nothing without the catalog copy.

But you're right about my parody, which was of Silliman's hilarious prose
more than of mnmlsm as a genre, which is sufficiently funny without my
attentions.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/98199ba7/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 26 17:14:02 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:14:02 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
In-Reply-To: <BFAE38C8.15F9B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BFAE38C8.15F9B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <CF88090C-9023-48C7-8461-220FA6E46CA0@earthlink.net>


On Nov 26, 2005, at 5:07 PM, David Graham wrote:

> Or meaningful, either (he said In All Seriousness. . . ).  That's  
> my beef with mnmlsm:  it's one of those genres (unlike, say,  
> Renaissance drama) where the commentary is invariably more  
> interesting than the work, and in fact often must create the  
> context for any meaning that might occur.  Like canvases painted  
> all black, or piles of dirt in the corner of the gallery:  they're  
> nothing without the catalog copy.

Quite right, all that m'mism stuff--no more interesting than cloud  
shadows
on hillsides, leaves tossed about like breezes, whirr of traffic just  
outside
the window. The sound of breathing. The passing of seasons.

Who reads catalogs?

Hal           Serving the tristate area.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/497d739d/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Sat Nov 26 17:21:33 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:21:33 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
In-Reply-To: <CF88090C-9023-48C7-8461-220FA6E46CA0@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BFAE3C0C.15FA0%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 11/26/05 4:14 PM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote:

Quite right, all that m'mism stuff--no more interesting than cloud shadows
on hillsides, leaves tossed about like breezes, whirr of traffic just
outside
the window. The sound of breathing. The passing of seasons.

Who reads catalogs??


Hal ? 
---------------------------------

Dunno, Hal.  I suspect anyone who is fascinated by "JOE" reads catalogs.
Don't look at me!

I tend to like my leaves tossed about like breezes, not to mention my piles
of dirt, outside the gallery, in any case.  Out there I can look up in
perfect silence at the stars without paying for a ticket, y'know?


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/c49d6abf/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Nov 26 17:43:22 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:43:22 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
References: <BFAE38C8.15F9B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00dd01c5f2da$ce605820$99b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Mnmlsm O!I don't think the letter o would be funny to anyone without commentary.

--Bob G.
-----------------------------------

Or meaningful, either (he said In All Seriousness. . . ).  That's my beef with mnmlsm:  it's one of those genres (unlike, say, Renaissance drama) where the commentary is invariably more interesting than the work, and in fact often must create the context for any meaning that might occur.  Like canvases painted all black, or piles of dirt in the corner of the gallery:  they're nothing without the catalog copy.

But you're right about my parody, which was of Silliman's hilarious prose more than of mnmlsm as a genre, which is sufficiently funny without my attentions.


All I can say in response is that I've enjoyed a lot of minimalist poems that didn't come with commentary.  "lighght" gave me as big a thrill when I first saw it as any other poem I've ever encountered (and Tintern Abbey probably equally appealed to me)--but Cummings's falling leaf had to be explained to me, at which point I got probably as big a bang out of it as I later got from the Saroyan poem.  But the Cummings poem was the first minimalist poem, or nearly minimalist poem, I ever saw.

--Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/82074326/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 26 17:51:47 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:51:47 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
In-Reply-To: <BFAE3C0C.15FA0%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BFAE3C0C.15FA0%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <19C3C849-96E2-4877-8095-1CBA612C4AB4@earthlink.net>


On Nov 26, 2005, at 5:21 PM, David Graham wrote:

> on 11/26/05 4:14 PM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote:
>
> Quite right, all that m'mism stuff--no more interesting than cloud  
> shadows
> on hillsides, leaves tossed about like breezes, whirr of traffic  
> just outside
> the window. The sound of breathing. The passing of seasons.
>
> Who reads catalogs?
>
>
> Hal
> ---------------------------------
>
> Dunno, Hal.  I suspect anyone who is fascinated by "JOE" reads  
> catalogs.  Don't look at me!
>
> I tend to like my leaves tossed about like breezes, not to mention  
> my piles of dirt, outside the gallery, in any case.  Out there I  
> can look up in perfect silence at the stars without paying for a  
> ticket, y'know?

All silences are perfect--even the noisy ones.

Hal        Visit Our Other Location

Halvard Johnson
================
email: halvard at earthlink.net
            halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com




From JforJames at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 18:30:09 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:30:09 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
Message-ID: <22e.28b0845.30ba4a01@aol.com>

 
Surprising as it may be, I'd defend "O" & only O as a poem. I could  mount 
a very good explication of its poemness, starting with the fact that it  
simultaneously
speaks to as it deftly undercuts the great literary convention of  
exaltation, "O [this]!,
O [that]!", but that's not the my pOint: An early reaction after  surprise 
(or dismay) to 
encountering an extremely minimal offering like O/Joe+Joe/lighght, should  be 
a smile. 
I doubt the intention of the artist ('author' being too much an honorific  
given the case in
point) was for only deep analysis and incisive commentary.
Taking such poems too seriously is as much a mistake as dismissing them  
outright.
First and foremost I believe they are provocations...provocations  to 
amusement
and then toward more serious musing.
R. Mutt
 
In a message dated 11/26/2005 5:43:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:

I don't think the letter o would be funny to anyone without  commentary.

--Bob G.
-----------------------------------

Or  meaningful, either (he said In All Seriousness. . . ).  That's my beef  
with mnmlsm:  it's one of those genres (unlike, say, Renaissance drama)  where 
the commentary is invariably more interesting than the work, and in fact  
often must create the context for any meaning that might occur.  Like  canvases 
painted all black, or piles of dirt in the corner of the gallery:  they're 
nothing without the catalog copy.

But you're right about  my parody, which was of Silliman's hilarious prose 
more than of mnmlsm as a  genre, which is sufficiently funny without my 
attentions.


All I can say in response is that I've enjoyed a lot of  minimalist poems 
that didn't come with commentary.  "lighght" gave me as  big a thrill when I 
first saw it as any other poem I've ever encountered  (and Tintern Abbey probably 
equally appealed to me)--but Cummings's falling  leaf had to be explained to 
me, at which point I got probably as big a bang  out of it as I later got from 
the Saroyan poem.  But the Cummings poem  was the first minimalist poem, or 
nearly minimalist poem, I ever  saw.
 
--Bob G.



 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/b7bbd93b/attachment.html>

From opus40-01 at opus40.org  Sat Nov 26 18:30:02 2005
From: opus40-01 at opus40.org (opus40-01 at opus40.org)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:30:02 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] O
Message-ID: <20051126233003.038182E8003@smapp00.siteprotect.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/1ce7bc53/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sat Nov 26 19:55:08 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:55:08 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Mnmlsm O!
References: <22e.28b0845.30ba4a01@aol.com>
Message-ID: <010a01c5f2ed$37154940$99b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  Surprising as it may be, I'd defend "O" & only O as a poem. I could mount 
  a very good explication of its poemness, starting with the fact that it simultaneously
  speaks to as it deftly undercuts the great literary convention of exaltation, "O [this]!,
  O [that]!", but that's not the my pOint: An early reaction after surprise (or dismay) to 
  encountering an extremely minimal offering like O/Joe+Joe/lighght, should be a smile. 
  I doubt the intention of the artist ('author' being too much an honorific given the case in
  point) was for only deep analysis and incisive commentary.
  Taking such poems too seriously is as much a mistake as dismissing them outright.
  First and foremost I believe they are provocations...provocations to amusement
  and then toward more serious musing.
  R. Mutt

  Well, first of all, "O," by itself could not exist as a poem.  It'd have to be in a collection of poems, probably on a page by itself.  But it'd also, it seems to me, have to be cut off from the poem or poems before it, or it'd be taken as a comment on them.  That the O was a zero as well as a letter would not come through.  

  Sure, a smile is part of the appreciation of these kinds of poems--but of all poems, I would add.  Jokes and metaphors are closely related.  Some minimalist poems are much deeper than others, though--and as deep as any larger poem.  "lighght" is one such.  

  Meanwhile, a week or so ago I was arguing at my blog against pwoermds--one-word poems, that is (in Geof Huth's, not my, terminology, although it's my terminology now, too).  I feel that too many of my fellow infraverbal poets fail to exploit them as much as they could.  A few are best by themselves, but many are okay or even good by themselves but could be much better in long poems.  I think.  But I think I've just been over-exposed to the variety.

  --Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051126/fbe50f16/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 27 02:57:47 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:57:47 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <287.55516f.30ba2f9c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00a501c5f328$4267fdc0$198f3052@ANNY>

I'd suggest that James takes some time off from work to write more mails, the world wide web would be much more interesting_ /just paraphrasing no insult meant/
Anny
  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:37 PM


  As much as I respect Anny, I can't help but say that
  introduction of the 'world wide web' was an unnecessary
  widening of poem's ambit. 
  Parody is more an aspect of respect than cruelty.
  Finnegan

  In a message dated 11/25/2005 9:03:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes:
    muffled!  Or muffed. Let's just hope that Ron Silliman doesn't get it into his head to write a favorable review of it and inspire the wits at New-Poetry to cruelly parody it.

    Here in Florida we're having "cold" weather--it's in the sixties at the moment.  But I'd love to be in snow.

    --Bob
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Anny Ballardini 
      To: New Poetry 
      Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:40 AM
      Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment



      s
      n
      o
      www
      i
      n
      (g)





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/763bec02/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 27 03:04:28 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:04:28 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry Digest, Vol 17, Issue 28
References: <202.ebdf005.30ba2dc0@aol.com>
	<30BEDC16-AEB6-411E-9448-4589946CDAFB@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00be01c5f329$31269cf0$198f3052@ANNY>

I think it enters the _silent_ realm of possible variations, if you notice there are two tuned dashes, this gives the reader the notion of fertility, advancement, unstoppable deployment; God made one and then two and then there were multitudes. Having coincided with the Thanksgiving holidays we should keep an eye on the bountiful wish-well this potential poem occultly and potentially un/veils.

Something like Hal's notion of silence, here and at other locations, when silence is not silence but silence.
  From: Halvard Johnson 
  Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:45 PM




  On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote:


    In a message dated 11/25/2005 2:50:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, elemenope at icubed.com writes:

      -- 
    was that a poem too?


  Yes, but not a very good one.


  Hal        Visit Our Other Location


  Halvard Johnson
  ================
  email: halvard at earthlink.net
             halvard at gmail.com
  website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
  blogs:     http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
                 http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/168ac07f/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 27 07:31:26 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 07:31:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <287.55516f.30ba2f9c@aol.com> <00a501c5f328$4267fdc0$198f3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <002401c5f34e$7c6faf60$9bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

                 Poem for David, James and Anny


                                         0

                                          .

                        :

                       O 


Centering is required for optimal results.--Bob G.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/4259cf71/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 27 08:16:41 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:16:41 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <287.55516f.30ba2f9c@aol.com> <00a501c5f328$4267fdc0$198f3052@ANNY>
	<002401c5f34e$7c6faf60$9bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <019601c5f354$ce6783a0$198f3052@ANNY>

thank you, Bob,

my answer on my Blog:
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/


  From: Bob Grumman 
  Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:31 PM



                   Poem for David, James and Anny


                                           0

                                            .

                          :

                         O 


Centering is required for optimal results.--Bob G.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/ad8eb24c/attachment.html>

From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Sun Nov 27 09:29:36 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:29:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <287.55516f.30ba2f9c@aol.com>
	<00a501c5f328$4267fdc0$198f3052@ANNY><002401c5f34e$7c6faf60$9bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<019601c5f354$ce6783a0$198f3052@ANNY>
Message-ID: <004d01c5f35e$fe6f0050$9bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Wow, that's a really neat O, Anny.  My poem was meant as a joke, though I think it can be taken as an okay lyrical poem.  But your painting -- well, I'm sure I'll plagiarize not too long from now.  In fact, I've already saved it to my paint shop program.

--Bob



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anny Ballardini 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] in this moment


  thank you, Bob,

  my answer on my Blog:
  http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/


    From: Bob Grumman 
    Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:31 PM



                     Poem for David, James and Anny


                                             0

                                              .

                            :

                           O 


Centering is required for optimal results.--Bob G.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/82f98aa7/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Sun Nov 27 11:30:53 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:30:53 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] in this moment
References: <287.55516f.30ba2f9c@aol.com><00a501c5f328$4267fdc0$198f3052@ANNY><002401c5f34e$7c6faf60$9bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc><019601c5f354$ce6783a0$198f3052@ANNY>
	<004d01c5f35e$fe6f0050$9bb831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <01e801c5f36f$eff298a0$198f3052@ANNY>

, :-)

  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] in this moment


  Wow, that's a really neat O, Anny.  My poem was meant as a joke, though I think it can be taken as an okay lyrical poem.  But your painting -- well, I'm sure I'll plagiarize not too long from now.  In fact, I've already saved it to my paint shop program.

  --Bob



  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Anny Ballardini 
    To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &amp;Views 
    Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:16 AM
    Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] in this moment


    thank you, Bob,

    my answer on my Blog:
    http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/


      From: Bob Grumman 
      Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:31 PM



                       Poem for David, James and Anny


                                               0

                                                .

                              :

                             O 


Centering is required for optimal results.--Bob G.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/f8d80a3d/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Nov 27 12:52:03 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:52:03 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] Beltway Poetry Quarterly seeks poems on the Iraq War
Message-ID: <d.51454743.30bb4c43@aol.com>

Date:    Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:59:44  -0500
From:    Kim Roberts <beltway at MAC.COM>
Subject:  Beltway Poetry Quarterly seeks poems on the Iraq War

CALL FOR NEW POEMS  ON THE IRAQ WAR
=A0
For a special issue of Beltway Poetry Quarterly due to  be published=20
online April 1, 2006, guest editor Sarah Browning seeks  recent poems on=20=

the war in Iraq. Topics might include, but are not  limited to: the=20
impact on the Iraqi people, American servicemembers,  military families,=20=

and/or the American people; Abu Ghraib and the  American archipelago;=20
opposition movements of all kinds; the effect of war  policy on life at=20=

home; personal survival in dark times; imagining a  way forward. All=20
approaches and styles, with a preference for poems one  page and under.
=A0
Poets must live or work in the mid-Atlantic region in  Washington DC,=20
Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, or West Virginia. Please send  up to three=20=

poems in the body of an email to: iraqwarpoems at yahoo.com  by December=20
15, 2005. (If your poem is chosen for publication, you will  have a=20
chance to send a hard copy or an attachment, to preserve  formatting.)=20
Previously published OK; please give publication information.  Poets=20
previously featured in Beltway Poetry Quarterly are eligible. There  are=20=

no entry fees.
=A0
About the Guest Editor: Sarah Browning  is coeditor of D.C. Poets=20
Against the War: An Anthology and coordinates  the group of the same=20
name, which=A0has been active since the first  national day of poetry=20
against the war, February 12, 2003. Browning's  recent poems have=20
appeared in Elixir, The Literary Review, and Beltway  Poetry Quarterly.=20=

She is the recipient of the People Before Profits  Poetry Prize and the=20=

Quadrangle Poetry Award. She lives in  Washington, D.C., where she works=20=

for The Fund for Women Artists,  building public support for women=20
artists.=00

For more information,  see http://washingtonart.com/beltway.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/0492d75a/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Nov 27 13:46:58 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:46:58 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] CID CORMAN TRIBUTE and MEMORIAL 
Message-ID: <e4.75c2fc05.30bb5922@aol.com>

Date:    Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:20:52 -0500
From:     Daniel Sendecki <daniel at SENDECKI.COM>
Subject: Ahadada @ Beyond  Baroque, Dec 17, 2005

Hi folks! A quick announcement for the list. Jerome  Rothenberg, Jesse Glass,
Cathy Daly, Bruna Mori and I will be reading at  Beyond Baroque in Venice,
California on December 17, 2005. Readings will kick  off at 7:30 to be
followed by a tribute to Cid Corman at 9:00; for this  portion of the event
feel free to bring Corman correspondence, books, or  magazines from which to
read and share and celebrate. All welcome.  

Beyond Baroque, 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, $7/$5/members free, 7:30 &  9:00 

Some proceeds from this event will be donated to Cid's wife,  Shizumi, and be
used to defray the cost of a plot and memorial for  Cid.

Beyond Baroque has ordered some really cool Corman books and  ephemera which
will be available. 

For more information:

Beyond  Baroque Literary Arts Calendat
http://www.beyondbaroque.org/

Ahadada  Books
http://www.ahadadabooks.com/

Contact  us:
http://www.sendecki.com/ahadada/contact/

17 December, Saturday -  7:30 PM

AHADADA BOOKS Presents

Join the writers and poets of  Ahadada Books from the US, Canada, and Japan.
JESSE GLASS has been  anthologized most recently in Visiting Walt (Iowa); a
selected poems is  forthcoming from West House. CATHERINE DALY's books
include has Locket  (Tupelo) and DaDaDa (Salt) and an upcoming Ahadada
chapbook. BRUNA MORI's New  York cityscape poems, with ink paintings by
Matthew Kinney, is forthcoming  from Meritage. She's appeared in Fence,
ZYZZYVA, Trepan, and has a chapbook  forthcoming from Ahadada. DANIEL
SENDECKI's Strange Currencies came out from  Ahadada in 2003. He is working
on a long poem inspired by George Oppen's "Of  Being Numerous." JEROME
ROTHENBERG is author of over seventy books of poetry  including Poems for the
Game of Silence, Poland/1931, A Seneca Journal,  Vienna Blood, That Dada
Strain, New Selected Poems 1970-1985, Khurbn, and  recently, A Paradise of
Poets and A Book of Witness (all New Directions) and  a forthcoming chapbook
from Ahadada. 

17 December, Saturday - 9:00  PM

CID CORMAN TRIBUTE and MEMORIAL 

The legendary poet,  translator, and editor CID CORMAN (b. 1924) passed away
on March 12, 2004.  Join JEROME ROTHENBERG and Ahadada Press in a tribute to
this key figure in  American poetry of the second half of the 20th century.
Corman published more  than 100 books and pamphlets and edited the
influential literary journal  Origin, among others. In 1990, his two vol.
selected poems OF ran to some  1500 poems; Volume 3 appeared in 1998. With
Ahadada authors. Bring Corman  correspondence, books, or magazines from which
to read and share and  celebrate. All welcome
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/bda201bc/attachment.html>

From JforJames at aol.com  Sun Nov 27 17:34:59 2005
From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:34:59 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] poet who died at crossroads
Message-ID: <293.75dd41.30bb8e93@aol.com>

 
http://www.vanguardngr.com/articles/2002/features/arts/at127112005.html 
The poet who died at crossroads............   
Posted to the Web: Sunday, November 27, 2005   
CHRISTOPHER Okigbo, one of Africa?s most distinguished  poets, is also one of 
its least remembered. Almost 40 years after he died on the  Biafran 
battlefield, the man whose haunting and prophetic verse continues to  inspire 
generations of poets, remains virtually unknown outside literary  circles. Although he 
deserves equal footing with fellow Nigerian muses such as  Chinua Achebe and 
Wole Soyinka, successive governments have allowed him to fall  into obscurity. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051127/29f54c38/attachment.html>

From rsillima at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 07:52:56 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 04:52:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog 
Message-ID: <20051128125256.62371.qmail@web31803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT POSTS

An epic in seeming lyrics:
Laura Sims? Practice, Restraint

Poetry & class

Academic schools & schools in poetry

Audio & video
as a means of preserving poetry

A portrait of the author
as an Easter peep

A history of the New York School
by Jordan Davis

Vanitas:
the most ambitious new poetry mag
in decades

Portraying John Ashbery
in the New Yorker

A day in New York City:
a podcast for MiPOradio,
reading with David Shapiro

Carl Thayler:
an elegy

Involuntary Lyrics
by Aaron Shurin:
reinventing the sonnet

Standing on their own:
Film Poems by Mark Lamoureux

New Western poetry in El Paso:
The transmigration of Bobby Byrd

Elizabeth Bishop:
Form, position & politics

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/




From mandolin at mac.com  Mon Nov 28 10:00:44 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Mike Snider)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:00:44 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoofed message to list
Message-ID: <1868853.1133190044294.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>

I just got a notification from the list-bot that it was holding a message sent using my email address with the subject line "hi, ive a new mail address." I canceled the message, but just want to make sure I'm still signed on and to let the list members know something's going on. 
 

-----
Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer. 
http://radio.weblogs.com/0113501/ for the Sonnetarium


From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 10:02:15 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:02:15 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spoofed message to list
In-Reply-To: <1868853.1133190044294.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>
References: <1868853.1133190044294.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com>
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511280702o62a21e02q9f02ba1ccb5e466e@mail.gmail.com>

I've gotten several of those over the past few days.

Jeff Newberry


On 11/28/05, Mike Snider <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:
>
> I just got a notification from the list-bot that it was holding a message
> sent using my email address with the subject line "hi, ive a new mail
> address." I canceled the message, but just want to make sure I'm still
> signed on and to let the list members know something's going on.
>
>
> -----
> Sent from webmail, so I'm not at my computer.
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0113501/ for the Sonnetarium
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051128/a8d43a36/attachment.html>

From anny.ballardini at tin.it  Mon Nov 28 12:20:11 2005
From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:20:11 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] AutoBiography and Mediation
Message-ID: <003d01c5f43f$fed5ab20$512bb750@ANNY>

> From: Vogel, Kerstin [mailto:vogelk at uni-mainz.de] 
> Sent: maandag 28 november 2005 14:30

Call for Papers

Fifth IABA Conference, Mainz, Germany, 27 - 31 July 2006

Organizer: Alfred Hornung

Third Circular

 

The fifth biennial conference of the International Auto-Biography Association will take place at the Johannes Gutenberg-University in Mainz, Germany, from 27-31 July 2006. We agreed on the general topic of "AutoBiography and Mediation" to permit a wide range of papers dealing with issues of auto-biography as media and auto-biography in the media, performing a process of mediation.

 

AutoBiography and Mediation

 

All forms of life-writing represent specific processes of mediation, thematically between the self and the world, technically between the author and the chosen medium of self-representation. Thematically, an auto-biography may mediate between individual positions and choices taken in life, in the sense of the critical concept of relational selves, or it may mediate between self and place as in imaginary geographies and eco-biographies. As such, auto-biographies are involved in literary, cultural, psychological, legal or political processes of mediation in which the auto-biographer becomes a mediator in intercultural, interethnic, and interracial affairs. An auto-biography can also mediate between different disciplines of the humanities, the social and natural sciences, neuro-science and medicine. Auto-biographical memory functions as a medium for time and reality. Technically, auto-biographers can choose from a wide range of media in which to present their lives: print media, performance, film and video, radio and tapes, or the internet. Many auto-biographers combine different media for intermedial effects, such as the inclusion of photography in texts, voice and music on the radio or tapes, sound and images in filmic auto-biography, music and dance in self-performances. Auto-biographical multi-media installations dissolve boundaries between genres and technologies of signification. The overall goal of auto-biography as mediation is to find some kind of resolution between different positions and the choice of media for the representation of life.

 

We invite proposals for individual papers and workshops within the range of these areas. Please choose one of the following sections for your contribution:

 

1.       Theory of mediation and intermediality via auto-biographies

2.       The mediation of medicine, natural sciences, neuro-sciences or social sciences in auto-biographies.

3.       Media of culture(s) as expressed in auto-biographies

4.       The mediation of cultures in auto-biographies

5.       The mediation of African and Latin American worlds in auto-biographies

6.       Performance and auto-biographies

 

 

Please send a one-page abstract of your proposal and a one-page curriculum vitae by 30 November 2005 to iaba at uni-mainz.de. We would like to encourage auto-biography scholars from all over the world, especially from Africa and Latin America, to participate and to focus also on auto-biographical material outside of the Anglo-American canon. 

The website for this conference is on the Net. It contains information on the site of the venue, accommodation and planned events. The list of speakers and registration forms will be listed in mid-December. The address of the website is www.iaba.fb05.uni-mainz.de.  

The official e-mail address for the conference will be iaba at uni-mainz.de. Kerstin Vogel will serve as the coordinator for organizational matters. 

We are looking forward to your proposals for individual papers and workshops and hope to see you all next year here in Mainz. 

I would like to thank Craig for circulating this CFP and also refer you to the official IABA website supervised by Zhao Baisheng in Beijing www.iaba.org.cn. 

 

 

 

Prof. Alfred Hornung
American Studies
Johannes Gutenberg Universit?t Mainz
PF 3980
55099 Mainz
Phone: +49-6131-392-3535

Fax. +49-6131-392-5577

e-mail: hornung at uni-mainz.de 

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! 
Friedrich Nietzsche 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051128/482526d7/attachment.html>

From jeff.newberry at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 12:43:36 2005
From: jeff.newberry at gmail.com (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:43:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Eleventh Muse Poetry Contest
Message-ID: <731bb17a0511280943y3c814ec6v4fea1106057c596a@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if anyone's interested in this, but Steve Schroeder runs a
pretty fine journal called *The Eleventh Muse*.  It's seeking entries into
its annual contest.

Jeff Newberry

*FINAL CALL for Poetry West's Eleventh Muse Poetry Contest
*
First Place: $100
Second Place: $50
Third Place: $25

*Postmark Deadline*: December 1, 2005
Submissions: 1-6 unpublished poems (100 lines or less per poem)
Entry Fee: $5 for the first poem, $2 for each additional poem
($15 for 6 poems)

Include:
Check payable to Poetry West. Cover sheet with name, address, phone number,
e-mail address, and poem titles.

Send entries to:

The Eleventh Muse Poetry Contest
PO Box 2413
Colorado Springs, Colorado 80901

The winners and any honorable mentions will be published in The Eleventh
Muse.

Poetry West Press will announce the results on this website.

Please do not include an SASE for results or manuscript return.
Manuscripts will be recycled.

If your poem was published in an e-zine, it's previously published. However,
if you posted it at an online workshop for critique and revision, the poem
is still eligible for submission.

Poetry West members and their immediate friends and family are not eligible
for this contest.

Full guidelines and general submission information at
http://www.poetrywest.org/muse.htm


--
"Life is doubt, and faith without doubt is nothing but death."
                                                   --Miguel de Unamuno

Blog:  http://museoffireblog.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051128/777c99d5/attachment.html>

From grahamd at ripon.edu  Mon Nov 28 23:10:05 2005
From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:10:05 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ouch!
Message-ID: <BFB130BD.1604F%grahamd@ripon.edu>

>From a roundup review of new books in the *New York Times*, this opening
salvo about Elizabeth Alexander's latest collection:

AMERICAN SUBLIME: Poems.
By Elizabeth Alexander. (Graywolf, paper, $14.)

A birthday sweater of a book: substantial, thoughtful, practical, dull.. . .

--Joel Brouwer
---------------------------------

Full review, along with notices of Michael Palmer, Arthur Sze, David Baker,
Heather Fuller, and others:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/27/books/review/27clover.html

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051128/7cf23cb0/attachment.html>

From halvard at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 28 23:51:49 2005
From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:51:49 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] An announcement
Message-ID: <54D887A2-CFEB-48FC-9C0E-AAB4BF469D72@earthlink.net>

Please join us for a selection of readings from Stirring Up A Storm:
Tales of the Sensual, the Sexual, and the Erotic.


Edited by Marilyn Jaye Lewis. Published by Thunder's Mouth Press

When: Sunday, December 4th @ 7 PM
Where: KGB Bar Sunday Night Fiction, 85 E. 4th Street, NYC
What & Who: Selected readings from Stirring up A Storm with Lauren
Henderson, Lynda Schor, M.M. De Voe, and Rachel Kramer Bussel. Evening
introduced by Marilyn Jaye Lewis
How much: Admission Free!

About the participants:

Marilyn Jaye Lewis is co-editor of the internationally acclaimed
Mammoth Book of Erotic Photography and founder of the Erotic Authors
Association. She is the award-winning author of Neptune & Surf, a trio
of erotic novellas, called by the UK's Guardian newspaper "a
sensational debut...take(s) literate erotica well beyond the
boundaries once staked by Story of O..." Her popular erotic romance
novels include When Hearts Collide, In the Secret Hours, and When the
Night Stood Still. She is the editor of the top-selling Hot Womens'
Erotica collection for Book-of-the-Month Club, and the upcoming Zowie!
It's Yaoi! Western Girls Write Hot Stories of Boys Love! for Thunder's
Mouth Press.

Lauren Henderson was born in London and educated at Cambridge, where
she studied English Literature with a special focus on Jane Austen (in
her second year) and vampires in 19th century romantic and gothic
novels (in her third). She has written seven books in her Sam Jones
mystery series, which has been optioned for American TV, many short
stories, and three romantic comedies - My Lurid Past, Don't Even Think
About It and Exes Anonymous. Her latest book is Jane Austen's Guide to
Dating, published in the US by Hyperion. Jane Austen's Guide to Dating
has also been optioned as a feature film by Kiwi Smith, who wrote "Ten
Things I Hate About You" and "Legally Blonde". Lauren's books have
been translated into over 20 languages. Together with Stella Duffy she
has edited an anthology of women-behaving-badly crime stories, Tart
Noir.

Lynda Schor is the author of three books of short fiction, Appetites,
True Love & Real Romance, and, most recently, The Body Parts Shop. Her
stories, which have been nominated for an O'Henry Award, have been
published in Playboy, Ms., The Village Voice, Mademoiselle, and many
literary magazines and anthologies. A winner of many grants and
awards, including two Maryland State Arts Council Awards, Schor is the
fiction editor of the online literary magazine, Salt River Review. She
teaches fiction writing at The New School.

M.M. De Voe: is a prize-winning author, whose short fiction has been
published in PRISM: International, The Spectator, SLANT, and Bee
Museum. Her translations of contemporary Lithuanian fiction are
forthcoming in anthologies in Canada and the European Union. She holds
an MFA from Columbia University. Her YA novel, Burn in our Hearts, was
a finalist for the 2004 Bellwether Prize. This past October, her short
piece, "Plague Mice," was published in the Fall issue of Mississippi
Review. She is a sometimes actress and a New York City resident.
Milda's contribution to Stirring Up A Storm, "Overheard," is a 2005
Pushcart Prize nominee for short fiction.

Rachel Kramer Bussel: is the editor of Naughty Spanking Stories from A
to Z Vols. 1 and 2, as well as the forthcoming Glamour Girls:
Femme/Femmer Erotica and several other erotic anthologies. She is
Senior Editor at Penthouse Variations and a Contributing Editor and
columnist for Penthouse. She writes the Lusty Lady column in The
Village Voice and conducts interviews for Gothamist.com and
Mediabistro. Her writing has been published in over 50 anthologies,
including Best American Erotica 2004 and 2006, as well as AVN, Bust,
Cleansheets.com, The New York Post, On Our Backs, Penthouse Forum,
Playgirl, Punk Planet, San Francisco Chronicle, Time Out New York and
others.

Visit www.stirringupastorm.com


=================================================



Hal           Serving the tristate area.

Halvard Johnson
================
halvard at earthlink.net
halvard at gmail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051128/76974851/attachment.html>

From ATambellini01 at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 00:05:33 2005
From: ATambellini01 at aol.com (ATambellini01 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:05:33 EST
Subject: [New-Poetry] worth reading and reacting to
Message-ID: <2b4.d3bef8.30bd3b9d@aol.com>

Letter to the readers of Goodie Magazine and Panther Books, regarding our 
recent treatment by the Boston Public Library.

Dear Goodies,

As you know, we had a scheduled showing at the Boston Public Library of the 
documentary on the late Beat poet Marty Matz made by Steve Zehentner and 
Penny Arcade of the Lower East Side Biography Project. It was to be followed 
by a discussion of our making his book and readings of his work by special 
guests. We started the application process in July, and on September 15th, 
Tracy Duggan of the library confirmed the date of December 8th. We felt 
greatly honored. We know that many of you were planning to attend.

This past Wednesday, November 23rd, I received a telephone message from 
Susan Birkett (Community Services Manager of the Boston Public Library and 
formerly a children's librarian and coordinator of children's and teen 
services, according to the Massachusetts School Library Association web 
site). Here is the transcript of the message she left:

"Hello, this is Susan Birkett calling from the Boston Public Library 
Communications Office. Due---we are going---we, ah, must cancel this program 
that is scheduled for Thursday, December 8th from 6:30 until 8:30. I'm sorry 
for the inconvenience but we have had mixed, um, ah, it, we just---our 
in-house capacity does not permit us to, ah, have this program. So I will 
also send you this via email. I was hoping to speak with someone but we 
couldn't get a telephone contact and were unable to actually even get a last 
name or anything. I hope you get this message. But the program for December 
8th about Marty Matz is canceled. Thank you."

I called and spoke to Ms. Birkett, expecting to be given the reason for our 
program being abruptly canceled. She told me that the library has a process, 
which we had not gone through. She told me that the flyer we sent (the flyer 
shows the Marty Matz book cover) was "deceptive" and that the library's 
editors had not approved it. She offered no alternative date, but said that 
the library reserves the right to cancel any event and would not be doing 
ours.

Ms. Birkett also sent us this email on November 23rd:

"I have just left a telephone message at 646-286-3565. The Boston Public 
Library is unable to host your program on December 8th from 6:30 until 8:30. 
I am sorry that we have been unable to reach you by telephone, and only 
today found your telephone number from Stephen Kharfen. Our in house infra 
structure cannot absorb all of the outside program and event requests, 
including your request. Thank you for your interest in the Boston Public 
Library."

Ours was not an "event request" as stated in her email, but a scheduled 
event. It is still listed as of today, November 27th, on the Boston Public 
Library web site events calendar, as a scheduled event.

Since Ms. Birkett mentioned the flyer as problematic, and from her hesitant 
voice message, I can't help but wonder whether she herself or someone else 
in a position to cancel the program feels that our program is somehow 
unworthy of the library.

Marty Matz's book cover http://www.goodie.org/pantherbooks/frontlist.html as 
most of you know, shows Marty sitting on the steps of New York's Angel 
Orensanz Foundation the day of Gregory Corso's memorial, hoisting a bottle 
of cognac. He toasted Corso with that very bottle in the picture, which is 
one of the more beautiful scenes in the documentary.

It's hard to imagine that the photograph by itself could be the reason a 
whole program is canceled. We don't know why the program is canceled. We and 
the many people planning to attend this event, including all of you from 
Amherst, Emerson and Dartmouth, have a right to know why the Boston Public 
Library is suddenly not allowing something they themselves accepted and 
scheduled more than two months ago.

We have tremendous respect for the public library. It is not any easy task 
running a small press with little funding, publishing obscure writers today, 
but that is what we do. To be treated this way by the library is unspeakably 
disheartening.

While Susan Birkett stopped short of saying that our program has been 
censored, canceling with no offer of another date amounts to the same thing.

On the American Library Association Office of Intellectual Freedom web site 
is this item:

"Each year OIF observes Banned Books Week during the last week of September. 
Observed since 1982, the annual event celebrates the freedom to choose or 
the freedom to express one's opinion even if that opinion might be 
considered unorthodox or unpopular and stresses the importance of ensuring 
the availability of those unorthodox or unpopular viewpoints to all who wish 
to read them."

Our program on Marty Matz, like his book, is wonderful, warm and full of 
poetry. Marty was a poet, a gentleman, a slob, and yes, as a boozer, he was 
an easy equal to Dylan Thomas. But there is nothing vulgar in Marty's work 
or in Marty Matz, and his excesses were not without consequence, something 
very apparent in the documentary as well as in the fact of his premature 
death. Neither our book nor the documentary serves as an endorsement of 
substance abuse.

Marty's work is admired where poetry is loved. In Italy, he's a star. Our 
presentations of this very program in San Francisco, Montreal, Dallas and 
New York have been warmly welcomed and written about favorably. Our audience 
is largely academic. Professors of American Studies, Poetry and Literature 
buy our books. The University of Wisconsin at Madison has bought every issue 
of Goodie Magazine for their collection.

Why has Susan Birkett of the Boston Public Library chosen to cancel our 
wonderful program without explanation?

Please email Susan Birkett (SBirkett at bpl.org) and ask for a valid 
explanation.

These people should also be copied:
>From the library, Tracy Duggan, Stephen Kharfen, Deborah Exner, Deirdre M. 
Brennan, Camille A. White, M. Bender, and from the American Library 
Association Office for Intellectual Freedom, Judith F. Krug and Don Wood 
(tduggan at bpl.org, skharfen at bpl.org, dexner at bpl.org, dbrennan at bpl.org, 
cwhite at bpl.org, mbender at bpl.org, jkrug at ala.org, dwood at ala.org)

This is a sad day for us and for every small press. There are many terrible 
and shocking things happening in our world. Marty Matz was not one of those 
things, and indeed, his poetry is a refuge from things mean, ugly and 
unkind.

Please help Goodie stand up for what is right by contacting the Boston 
Public Library and the American Library Association to express 
disappointment in their decision to cancel our program.

Goodie events are always celebrations. We appreciate all of you very much 
and we are very sorry that this happened.

Romy Ashby, Editor
http://www.goodie.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/pipermail/new-poetry/attachments/20051129/799e120a/attachment.html>

From gmguddi at ilstu.edu  Tue Nov 29 21:49:16 2005
From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:49:16 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] Now on Conchology Blog
Message-ID: <438D132C.20703@ilstu.edu>

THE Praising of Kass Fleisher's
ACCIDENTAL SPECIES


Photos from Jennifer "El" Knox &
Shanna Compton's ROCKIN Reading


The Bald 'n' Greasy Head of Flann O'Brien (Genius)


THE HOPE OF THE COMIC MODE -- TIKKUN


COMMEMORATING the 30TH Anniversary
of the STRIPPING and BEATING of WS Merwin & Dana Naone


INTERVIEW:  RON SILLIMAN ON RON SILLIMAN'S BLOG


ENCOMIA AND WHINGING FOR THE GIANT SQUID (recently photographed)
[And How Its Being Photographed Will Inevitably Influence
the Inscape of the Poetic Imaginary]


HER LOVELY VULVA


http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/


From rsillima at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 30 00:34:51 2005
From: rsillima at yahoo.com (Ron Silliman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:34:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Afghani writer may face death sentence for blasphemy
Message-ID: <20051130053451.47636.qmail@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Writer Could Face Death Sentence
Freedom of expression is a dangerous concept in Afghanistan, and
could cost one man his life as well as his liberty.
By Wahidullah Amani in Kabul (ARR No. 196, 29-Nov-05)
The well-publicised case of a magazine editor jailed for blasphemy
could soon take a more ominous turn, with a state prosecutor
threatening to press for the death penalty. 

Mohaqeq Nasab, editor of Huquq-e-Zan, Women???s Rights, was found
guilty of blasphemy on October 22, and sentenced to two years at hard
labour. 

Nasab???s offence included publishing articles that, among other
things, questioned the Islamic precept that a women???s testimony in
court carries only half as much weight as a man???s, and the harsh
punishments meted out for adultery, theft and heresy.

His theoretical musings were deemed an insult to Islam, and he was
duly arrested, charged and sentenced. Now Zmarai Amiri, the
capital???s chief prosecutor, is asking a court of appeal to impose a
harsher punishment.

"The decision made by the lower court on Muhaqeq Nasab will in no way
satisfy the public prosecutor's office. The court has given him two
years imprisonment. Nasab must be punished more severely, up to and
including execution,??? Amiri told IWPR. 

Nasab???s arrest has been condemned by organisations defending press
freedoms inside Afghanistan and also by international media rights
groups, such as Reporters Without Borders and the United States-based
Committee to Protect Journalists.

But those defending the embattled editor could soon find themselves
in legal difficulty, with the prosecutor threatening to arrest and
imprison anyone who springs to Nasab???s defence, including members
of the government???s own media commission.

???There are some people who speak irresponsibly through television
and newspapers, without knowing anything about Islamic law, the
Afghan constitution or Afghan law. We have decided to arrest and
interrogate these people, too,??? said Amiri. 

According to the prosecutor, arrest warrants have already been
issued. On November 15, political analyst Azizullah Mamnun, who had
spoken publicly on Nasab???s behalf, was detained, questioned, and
later released.

If the prosecutor???s office makes good on its threats, it will have
to arrest, among others, the deputy minister of information and
culture, Sayed Ahmad Fazel Hussein Sancharaki, who serves as head of
the media commission in the minister???s absence.

"The media commission assessed all the articles published in the
magazine, and found nothing to support a charge of blasphemy,???
Sancharaki told IWPR.

According to the deputy minister, the arrest, trial and imprisonment
were all illegal, and Nasab should be released.

???In my opinion, Nasab???s arrest and trial, as well as his
detention in jail, are against the media law,??? asserted Sancharaki.

Others threatened with arrest include Rahimullah Samander, head of
Afghanistan???s Independent Journalists??? Association and member of
the media commission. While Samander laughs off the threat of arrest
and imprisonment, he is deadly serious in his defence of Nasab.

???The media commission is satisfied that Mohaqeq is neither an
infidel nor an apostate. He is not trying to promote depravity. It is
all a misunderstanding,??? said Samander. 

???We have asked President [Hamed] Karzai to let Nasab go. If he does
not do this, then freedom of the press is being trampled underfoot in
Afghanistan.???

One of the main points of contention is Nasab???s statement that
human beings have a right to question and interpret individual
strictures of Islamic law, or Sharia. 

???We believe that the main sources of Sharia are God???s scripture
and human wisdom,??? he wrote in his magazine. 

Just as controversial is his assertion that there is no difference
between men and women as court witnesses. According to Islamic law,
the testimony of one man is equivalent to that of two women.

???The importance in men???s and women???s testimony is the same in
all fields and on all issues,??? wrote Nasab.

But according to a fatwa or ruling issued in September by the highest
council dealing with legal matters, this statement could be
punishable by death. The Dar-ul-Ifta, the council of religious
scholars within the Supreme Court responsible for issuing fatwas on
Islamic issues, ruled that Nasab had contradicted verses of the
Koran, which is not allowed under Islam. 

The punishment for apostasy is clear, according to the council, whose
fatwa quoted one of the Hadiths, a collection of writings documenting
the life and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, saying, ???Whoever
changes or denies any verses of the Holy Koran will legitimise their
own execution.???

But Muhammad Daud Noori, a lecturer in the department of law and
political science at Kabul University, says that Islam is not quite
as cut and dried as that on this issue.

???There is no limitation on freedom of expression in Islam. Every
Muslim has the right to express his opinion," Noori told IWPR.

???This kind of intolerance, where no one can give an opinion about
religion, is like Christianity in the Middle Ages. We have had a lot
of clerics, poets and intellectuals who have commented on Islamic
principles. Not only have they not been punished, they were admired
for their contributions,??? said Noori.

According to Sancharaki, Nasab???s case is evidence of judicial
anarchy in Afghanistan, ???If this continues, we will see other
similar cases, which will not benefit democracy or the media in this
country.???

Wahidullah Amani is an IWPR reporter in Kabul.



From cc at opus0.com  Wed Nov 30 16:08:29 2005
From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:08:29 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: An announcement
In-Reply-To: <200511291700.jATH05Ht013047@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <NLEBINHDLBNDBAIHNGBJKEAACIAA.cc@opus0.com>

Why does all the fun stuff happen in NY?  Can we bring this show to San
Miguel de Allende?

Has anyone read these writers?  Have they learned to write erotic
literature?  Wouldn't that be a gift to the world if they did?  Gabe G once
commented that what was needed to make poetry more popular was "titties"
(well I don't recall the exact context...) --perhaps this venue serves?

> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:51:49 -0500
> From: Halvard Johnson <halvard at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [New-Poetry] An announcement

> Please join us for a selection of readings from Stirring Up A Storm:
> Tales of the Sensual, the Sexual, and the Erotic.
>
>
> Edited by Marilyn Jaye Lewis. Published by Thunder's Mouth Press
>
> When: Sunday, December 4th @ 7 PM
> Where: KGB Bar Sunday Night Fiction, 85 E. 4th Street, NYC
> What & Who: Selected readings from Stirring up A Storm with Lauren
> Henderson, Lynda Schor, M.M. De Voe, and Rachel Kramer Bussel. Evening
> introduced by Marilyn Jaye Lewis
> How much: Admission Free!
>




From mandolin at mac.com  Wed Nov 30 19:01:36 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:01:36 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] two toots
Message-ID: <064C384C-3483-495F-BAC7-11482F90BFC3@mac.com>

First toot: I'm December's featured poet at The Hypertexts (http:// 
www.thehypertexts.com/). 4 poems now, including some antiques and  
free verse, and more coming soon. You'll also find some of listmember  
Sam Gwynn's poetry there, and that of a host of others.

Second toot: My terza rima translation of Juana de Ibarbourou's  
"Fusion" wil be in the secnd issue of Composite: Multiple  
Translations (http://www.compositetranslation.com/composite- 
index.html). Bob Grumman, I haven't seen theo zine yet,  you'll  
probably  like this one better than the above -- the first issue had  
some wildly inventive work.

Mike S


From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net  Wed Nov 30 19:30:11 2005
From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:30:11 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] two toots
References: <064C384C-3483-495F-BAC7-11482F90BFC3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c5f60e$64812f10$58b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>



> First toot: I'm December's featured poet at The Hypertexts (http:// 
> www.thehypertexts.com/). 4 poems now, including some antiques and  free 
> verse, and more coming soon. You'll also find some of listmember  Sam 
> Gwynn's poetry there, and that of a host of others.
>
> Second toot: My terza rima translation of Juana de Ibarbourou's  "Fusion" 
> wil be in the secnd issue of Composite: Multiple  Translations 
> (http://www.compositetranslation.com/composite- index.html). Bob Grumman, 
> I haven't seen theo zine yet,  you'll  probably  like this one better than 
> the above -- the first issue had  some wildly inventive work.
>
> Mike S

I'm confused, Mike.  Is Composites an e-zine.  I went to the site you 
provided the URL of but couldn't get to any part of the first issue, just 
pages about the publication.

Congratulations on the appearances.  I still mean to review the book of 
sonnets you sent me, but who knows when.  I'm suddenly entangled in all 
kinds of projects.

--Bob 




From mandolin at mac.com  Wed Nov 30 20:02:40 2005
From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:02:40 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] two toots
In-Reply-To: <007f01c5f60e$64812f10$58b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <064C384C-3483-495F-BAC7-11482F90BFC3@mac.com>
	<007f01c5f60e$64812f10$58b831d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <17F5499D-88CA-498C-A261-01B8049C3BAC@mac.com>


On Nov 30, 2005, at 7:30 PM, Bob Grumman wrote:

>
>
>> First toot: I'm December's featured poet at The Hypertexts  
>> (http:// www.thehypertexts.com/). 4 poems now, including some  
>> antiques and  free verse, and more coming soon. You'll also find  
>> some of listmember  Sam Gwynn's poetry there, and that of a host  
>> of others.
>>
>> Second toot: My terza rima translation of Juana de Ibarbourou's   
>> "Fusion" wil be in the secnd issue of Composite: Multiple   
>> Translations (http://www.compositetranslation.com/composite-  
>> index.html). Bob Grumman, I haven't seen theo zine yet,  you'll   
>> probably  like this one better than the above -- the first issue  
>> had  some wildly inventive work.
>>
>> Mike S
>
> I'm confused, Mike.  Is Composites an e-zine.  I went to the site  
> you provided the URL of but couldn't get to any part of the first  
> issue, just pages about the publication.
>
> Congratulations on the appearances.  I still mean to review the  
> book of sonnets you sent me, but who knows when.  I'm suddenly  
> entangled in all kinds of projects.

> --Bob
>

Thanks, Bob. Composites is not an ezine, but when I get a copy I can  
send you some samples if you like.



From gmguddi at ilstu.edu  Wed Nov 30 22:41:31 2005
From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:41:31 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] the comprehensive empathy of walt whitman
Message-ID: <438E70EB.5050202@ilstu.edu>

Never I think has a thought been expressed that is at once so banal and 
profound as this: WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. It is a truism deeply 
concrete in its factuality and yet nearly completely useless as an 
account of reality -- for it is a truth that is very hard to realize. 
(The utterance of this phrase in boisterous company is sometimes 
followed by a string of exclamation points and the unproductive 
ejaculation "Aaaaghghg!" That is to say, it is a truth that is so beyond 
us that it often works best as a joke.)

I assert that death is a class of destruction. No great news there. But 
I want to add that death, though a rather complete and maybe even "no 
nonsense" kind of destruction, is at heart a comic sort of destruction. 
And I think Whitman, though not himself a comic writer, knew this. Let 
me explain.

Comic destruction is never merely destructive; it has a levity to it, as 
if it will be followed by an improving and restorative force. Death to 
me is like this. Cartoons, also, are like this: If Wylie Coyote is 
crushed by a boulder, he comes back flattened for some time but 
eventually is restored fully to a two dimensional approximation of a 
three dimensional being (instead of a two dimensional approximation of a 
two dimensional being which he was while he was flattened and walking 
around like a wafer with legs, not necessary for me to go on like this).

My point is I have had glimpses of my death when I have been able to 
achieve a calmness in meditation via the complete surrender to (and 
awareness of) what is in me, namely: jillions of little explosions, 
pin-sized gusts of warmth, tiny sciroccos of jiggling electrical clouds 
blowing here and there in my muscles -- a constant roistering of change 
manifest as a flickering constellation of tiny atom-sized explosions all 
throughout my musculature, and in my eyes combusting and wavering fields 
of colors roseate, cyan, saffron, rubiate, pucid, vernal ... these racks 
and sets of conflagrations all throughout my body as if I were a dim 
backboard thrust into a storm of light.

And I strongly sense that death is merely the continuation of this 
conflagration without me (or with me in a different form). It's just a 
new stage of constant combustion and restoration. And as such it strikes 
me as fundamentally comic and joyous.

All of which is to say I'm on this listserv called HUMPO where a bunch 
of poets interested in comedy are trying to figure out what kind of 
cultural work it is that comedy does. These poets and I remain confused 
(Maxine Chernoff, D A Powell, Ron Silliman, Ange Mlinko, Gary Sullivan, 
K. Silem Mohammad, George Bowering, Katie Degentesh, Rachel Loden, are 
there others?) though we manage to serve ourselves some nice moments of 
insight.

Anyway, Rachel asked about "deadly serious" poets we happen to love. One 
of the poets I chose was Whitman. I absolutely love him.

And though he is obviously not "funny," I suppose I would hesitate to 
label him deadly serious because his emotional mode is so buoyant, so 
full of gratitude, so joyous and welcoming and generous and big-spirited 
-- embracing, encompassing, hugging, welcoming -- that I do not think of 
him as "serious."

But he is not "funny" either. He is not making jokes. Yet his spirit has 
something about it that shares deeply of a kind of unexpressed comedy.

This harks back to something Maxine Chernoff said recently onlist about 
the affiliation between comedy and empathy: she said that comedy at its 
best is deeply empathic. To my sensibility this rings quite true, even 
in comedy's most violent and hectic forms (eg, Farce), there is a deep 
empathy with the simultaneity of the absurdity, joy, and pain that is 
our lot in this world. And Whitman is almost empathy personified. So 
though he is not funny, his empathy makes him a cousin to the comedian. 
Whitman's empathy is a cousin to the democratizing aspects of the comic 
mode at its best -- but without being "expressed" as comedy.

There is an inclusiveness to Whitman's character that is consonant with 
that ideal inclusive society that all comedy (according to Northrop 
Frye) tends toward: a forgiveness of pain, suffering, and of those who 
caused, and keep causing, it.

Most of the worst of what some folks call "serious" poetry just strikes 
me as whinging. Whinging about the fact that we suffer. I must say that 
many poets who have written from a mode of high seriousness (and I'm 
talking since like early 20c -- Pound, Eliot (not kitty cat Eliot)) do, 
I find, tend to strike me as melodramatic. Melodrama, as well all know, 
occurs when there's no real (or sufficient) rationale for the emotion; 
it seems outsized and inappropriate.

And such is the case with the general palette of emotional responses 
used by many writers: We witness a bizarre collection of cultural 
responses to the suffering inherent to life as a body of knee-jerk 
emotive reactions: nostalgia, self-pity, country-western music. In fact, 
the older I get and the more used I become to the idea that I'm going to 
die, the more melodrama I keep spotting in art, movies, tv, and "alas" 
poetry.

Most of it seems to be bemoaning suffering and whining. What I love 
however about Whitman is that he is not doing that; and neither is he 
cracking jokes.

I think it is evident that he knew at a very deep experiential level 
(and not merely intellectually) -- and one can sense this in the 
comprehensiveness of his empathy -- that death comes to all of us. Not 
just to oneself.

He is full of empathy. He is full of true gratitude, deep acceptance, 
and a deeply welcoming groove that makes me want to love him A LOT. 
There is something about the quality of his awareness that does not 
bemoan or whine. It is soft, welcoming, and deeply aware.

It is admirable.